June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4573 The House will meet at 9 a.m. tomor- Porter Sherwood Terry PERSONAL EXPLANATION Portman Shimkus Thompson (CA) row and immediately resume consider- Price (NC) Shows Thornberry Mr. SHAYS. Mr. Speaker, earlier today, I ation of amendments to H.R. 2122. One Pryce (OH) Shuster Thune was in Connecticut participating in the com- minutes will be at the end of the day. Quinn Simpson Toomey mencement ceremony at Greenwich High Mr. Speaker, we will probably begin Radanovich Sisisky Traficant Ramstad Skeen Turner School and, therefore, missed eight recorded debate tomorrow with the Davis of Vir- Regula Skelton Udall (CO) votes. ginia amendment with 30 minutes of Reyes Smith (MI) Udall (NM) I take my voting responsibility very seri- debate. We will then have a series of Reynolds Smith (NJ) Upton ously, having missed only 4 votes in my al- Riley Smith (TX) Vitter three to four votes. Roemer Smith (WA) Walden most 12 years in Congress. The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Rogan Snyder Walsh I would like to say for the RECORD that had LAHOOD). The question is on the pas- Rogers Souder Wamp I been present I would have voted ``yes'' on Rohrabacher Spence Watkins recorded vote number 226, ``yes'' on recorded sage of the bill. Ros-Lehtinen Spratt Watts (OK) The question was taken; and the Rothman Stabenow Weiner vote number 227, ``yes'' on recorded vote 228, Speaker pro tempore announced that Roukema Stearns Weldon (FL) ``yes'' on recorded vote 229, ``yes'' on re- Royce Stenholm Weldon (PA) corded vote 230, ``yes'' on recorded vote 231, the ayes appeared to have it. Ryan (WI) Strickland Weller Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Speaker, on Ryun (KS) Stump Weygand ``no'' on recorded vote 232, and ``yes'' on re- that I demand the yeas and nays. Sanchez Sununu Whitfield corded vote 233. Sandlin Sweeney Wicker f The yeas and nays were ordered. Scarborough Talent Wilson The SPEAKER pro tempore. This Schaffer Tancredo Wise ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING will be a 5-minute vote. Sensenbrenner Tanner Wolf AMENDMENT PROCESS FOR H.R. Sessions Tauscher Wu The vote was taken by electronic de- Shadegg Tauzin Young (AK) 1658, CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE vice, and there were—yeas 287, nays Shaw Taylor (MS) Young (FL) REFORM ACT 139, not voting 9, as follows: Sherman Taylor (NC) Mr. DREIER. Mr. Speaker, the Com- [Roll No. 233] NAYS—139 mittee on Rules is expected to meet on YEAS—287 Abercrombie Gutierrez Moran (KS) Tuesday June 22, 1999, to grant a rule Ackerman Hastings (FL) Morella Aderholt Dicks Jenkins for the consideration of the bill H.R. Allen Hilliard Murtha Archer Dooley John 1658, the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Andrews Hinchey Nadler Armey Doolittle Johnson (CT) Baldacci Hoeffel Napolitano Act. Bachus Doyle Johnson, Sam Baldwin Holt Neal The Committee on Rules may grant a Baird Dreier Jones (NC) Barrett (WI) Hostettler Oberstar Baker Duncan Kaptur rule which would require that amend- Becerra Hoyer Obey Ballenger Dunn Kasich ments be preprinted in the CONGRES- Berman Jackson (IL) Olver Barcia Ehlers Kelly Blagojevich Jackson-Lee Owens SIONAL RECORD. In this case, amend- Barr Ehrlich Kildee Blumenauer (TX) Pallone ments to be preprinted would need to Barrett (NE) Emerson King (NY) Boucher Jefferson Pastor Bartlett English Kingston be signed by the Member and sub- Brady (PA) Johnson, E. B. Paul Barton Etheridge Knollenberg mitted to the Speaker’s table no later Brown (FL) Jones (OH) Payne Bass Evans Kolbe Brown (OH) Kanjorski Pease than the close of business Tuesday, Bateman Everett Kuykendall Campbell Kennedy Pelosi Bentsen Ewing LaHood June 22. Cannon Kilpatrick Pickett Bereuter Fletcher Lampson Amendments should be drafted to the Capuano Kind (WI) Rahall Berkley Foley Largent Cardin Kleczka Rangel version of the bill ordered reported by Berry Forbes Larson Clay Klink Rivers the Committee on the Judiciary, a Biggert Fossella Latham Clayton Kucinich Rodriguez Bilbray Fowler LaTourette copy of which may be obtained from Clyburn LaFalce Roybal-Allard Bilirakis Franks (NJ) Lazio the committee. Coburn Lantos Rush Bishop Frelinghuysen Leach Conyers Lee Sabo Members should use the Office of Bliley Frost Lewis (CA) Costello Levin Sanders Legislative Counsel to ensure that Blunt Gallegly Lewis (KY) Coyne Lewis (GA) Sanford Boehlert Ganske Linder their amendments are properly drafted, Cummings Lofgren Sawyer Boehner Gekas Lipinski and should check with the Office of the Danner Maloney (NY) Schakowsky Bonilla Gibbons LoBiondo Davis (IL) Markey Scott Parliamentarian to be certain their Bonior Gilchrest Lowey DeFazio Martinez Serrano amendments comply with the rules of Bono Gillmor Lucas (KY) DeGette Matsui Slaughter Borski Gilman Lucas (OK) the House. Delahunt McCarthy (MO) Stark Boswell Goode Luther DeLauro McDermott Stupak f Boyd Goodlatte Maloney (CT) Dingell McGovern Thompson (MS) Brady (TX) Goodling Manzullo Dixon McKinney Thurman MANDATORY GUN SHOW Bryant Gordon Mascara Doggett McNulty Tiahrt BACKGROUND CHECK ACT Burr Goss McCarthy (NY) Edwards Meehan Tierney Burton Graham McCollum The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Engel Meek (FL) Towns Buyer Granger McCrery Eshoo Meeks (NY) Velazquez LAHOOD). Pursuant to House Resolu- Callahan Green (TX) McHugh Farr Menendez Vento tion 209 and rule XVIII, the Chair de- Calvert Green (WI) McInnis Fattah Metcalf Visclosky Camp Greenwood McIntosh clares the House in the Committee of Filner Millender- Waters Canady Gutknecht McIntyre Ford McDonald Watt (NC) the Whole House on the State of the Capps Hall (OH) McKeon Frank (MA) Miller, George Waxman Union for the consideration of the bill, Castle Hall (TX) Mica Gejdenson Mink Wexler Chabot Hansen Miller (FL) H.R. 2122. Gephardt Moakley Woolsey Chambliss Hastert Miller, Gary Gonzalez Mollohan Wynn b 2103 Chenoweth Hastings (WA) Moore Clement Hayes Moran (VA) NOT VOTING—9 IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Coble Hayworth Myrick Accordingly, the House resolved Collins Hefley Nethercutt Brown (CA) Houghton Saxton Combest Herger Ney Carson Minge Shays itself into the Committee of the Whole Condit Hill (IN) Northup Cubin Salmon Thomas House on the State of the Union for the Cook Hill (MT) Norwood consideration of the bill (H.R. 2122) to Cooksey Hilleary Nussle b require background checks at gun Cox Hinojosa Ortiz 2102 shows, and for other purposes, with Mr. Cramer Hobson Ose So the bill was passed. Crane Hoekstra Oxley THORNBERRY in the chair. Crowley Holden Packard The result of the vote was announced The Clerk read the title of the bill. Cunningham Hooley Pascrell as above recorded. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to the Davis (FL) Horn Peterson (MN) A motion to reconsider was laid on Davis (VA) Hulshof Peterson (PA) rule, the bill is considered as having Deal Hunter Petri the table. been read the first time. DeLay Hutchinson Phelps Stated for: Under the rule, the gentleman from DeMint Hyde Pickering Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Speaker, on rollcall No. Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) and the gen- Deutsch Inslee Pitts Diaz-Balart Isakson Pombo 233, I was unavoidably detained. Had I been tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) Dickey Istook Pomeroy present, I would have voted ``yes.'' each will control 30 minutes. H4574 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 The Chair recognizes the gentleman the person has an arrest record for a ly. There is no need to have a 3-busi- from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM). felony, not whether there was a convic- ness or -working day wait. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, the tion. Mr. Chairman, some Members want legislation we are about to consider be- Once there is a hit of someone’s name this period shortened to 24 hours, but fore us this evening is here because all in the instant check system, there has the instant check statistics show that of us are concerned with the safety of to be contact made by someone work- only about half the hits are ever our children in school, at home, on the ing in that system to the county court- cleared up in 24 hours, and on Satur- playground, and on the street. That is house in the county and the State days this clear rate is even lower. the same reason we were considering where the arrest was made to find out Whenever the check system tells a the bill we just passed a moment ago. if the person was convicted of a felony dealer to delay, it is always because a In America, every child should have crime on the charges that show up on hit has occurred in the name of the an opportunity to get a full education, the arrest record in the computer, or person seeking to buy a firearm. We to excel in the workplace to the best of whether that person was acquitted, or have to make sure that we delay these his or her ability, to raise a family and maybe the charges were pled to a lesser sales until we can determine if the per- to enjoy the high standard of living offense, or, who knows. son trying to buy the firearm is a felon that the genius of the Founding Fa- If the sale is made over the weekend, or a fugitive, and this often cannot thers of this great free Nation allowed and I think this is very important to happen until the following Monday us to develop. No child should have his note, if the sale was made over the morning. or her life cut short in a suicidal mas- weekend and the instant check turns The bill also requires persons who or- sacre such as happened at Columbine up an arrest hit on the purchaser’s ganize or conduct shows to register High School or by any other violent name, the county courthouse is not with the Secretary of the Treasury, in criminal act. open for business and the records can- accordance with the Department’s reg- We cannot address adequately by leg- not be checked to find out if there was ulations. It also requires gun show or- islation all of the causes of violent a felony conviction that would dis- ganizers to check the identification of crime in our society, but over the last qualify the purchaser until Monday, those who desire to be vendors at the 2 days we have crafted legislation in when the courthouse opens. gun show and record their names in H.R. 1501 which, if enacted, will greatly This is the principal reason why cur- records the gun show organizer must assist our States and local commu- rent law provides that if an arrest hit maintain. nities in reducing the torrent of violent occurs on a name in an instant check, Under present law, only licensed youth crime afflicting this Nation. The law enforcement has up to 3 business dealers are authorized to conduct back- grant program in this legislation will days to determine whether there was a ground checks on potential firearm help repair the broken juvenile justice felony conviction before the sale can be purchasers. In order to make sure there systems in our 50 States and send a completed. If it is determined there is will be sufficient number of persons at message to teenagers that there are a felony conviction, there can be no gun shows who can conduct these consequences for their criminal mis- sale. If it does not make a determina- checks, the bill allows other citizens to behavior at every level, and that if tion, the sale may proceed at the end of apply to the Secretary of the Treasury they continue to engage in a course of the 3 days. to become instant check registrants. These instant check registrants will criminal conduct there will be ever Now, when somebody buys a gun at a not be licensed to sell firearms, but more severe punishment. I believe the gun show from a dealer, under current they will be licensed to conduct a experts that this legislation will make law the instant check system works ex- background check, and they will be a difference. actly the same as it does if somebody Now we must turn our attention to goes to the gun store and buys the gun subject to the regulations promulgated the loopholes in the gun laws of this from the gun dealer. However, if the by the Treasury Department. I am sure Nation that have become very apparent purchase is made by an individual non- a number of persons who are not deal- ers, but enjoy exhibiting, buying, and in the aftermath of the tragedy at Col- dealer citizen at a gun show, if that is selling firearms at gun shows will go umbine. Over the last several weeks, the one who is selling the gun, an indi- through the process to obtain a permit there has been much debate over the vidual nondealer citizen, there is no to conduct these background checks. issue of guns; debate in public, debate background check to see if the person H.R. 2122 also defines a gun show. For in the press, debate in this House. And is a convicted felon who is attempting the purposes of the bill, a gun show is despite all the differing views of those to make the purchase. This is a big an event which is sponsored to foster on all sides, there is one thing that I loophole. This is the loophole that the the collecting or legal use of firearms believe everyone agrees upon. We need bill before us, H.R. 2122, closes. at which 50 or more firearms are exhib- to keep guns out of the hands of chil- Under this bill, an instant back- ited for sale or exchange, and at which dren, convicted felons and those who ground check has to be done on anyone 10 or more vendors are present. use them to harm our families. who purchases a gun at a gun show. No Now, I must say, Mr. Chairman, I was Existing law prohibits a convicted matter who the seller is, whether they disappointed to read in today’s paper, felon, a fugitive from justice, a drug are a dealer or an unlicensed individual in The Washington Post, a piece by At- addict, an illegal alien, a minor, and vendor at the gun show, they may not torney General Janet Reno, which I several other categories of people from sell any firearm under this bill until must sadly say it makes it appear that buying a gun. Several years ago an in- the buyer of that firearm has been she is playing more politics than sub- stant check background system was checked through the instant check sys- stance, and I am used to hearing from phased in specifically for the purpose tem. Under this bill, anyone who know- the Attorney General on a lot more of screening out convicted felons and ingly violates the requirement will be substance. She complains about the other disqualified persons who at- subject to criminal prosecution and provisions in this bill in ways that just tempted to buy guns from a gun dealer. civil penalties. do not make sense. This is a name check system. Requiring purchasers at a gun show Now, I would like to say one thing The name check system has its weak- to wait 3 working days might mean about this. I believe that the Attorney nesses, one of them being that while that the sale is not completed until General’s office should be spending the names of persons arrested for fel- well after the gun show is over, and so more time working to improve the ex- ony crimes are computerized in a cen- H.R. 2122 allows the sale to proceed isting instant check system to get tral bank at the FBI, the conviction or after 72 hours, or 3 calendar days, as more of the records on file in a way acquittal records are not. Some States opposed to business days. This will be that will have the felony convictions have computerized the disposition long enough to delay the sale if it is there, than trying to fiddle with the records showing conviction or acquit- made over a weekend, until the county details of a piece of legislation where tal but many have not. So when the courthouses are open on Monday, and she is totally incorrect about what she name of a gun purchaser is entered in the arrest name hit can be resolved, is saying in that article. the instant check system and a hit is but it also allows gun show purchasers Miss Reno says in her column some- made, it is frequently only known that to complete their transactions prompt- thing that appears to show concern June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4575 that my system in this bill will allow erwise, without this legislation, be able rape a child was denied the right to what she calls amateurs to access the to buy a gun at a gun show they cannot buy a weapon in my own State of Mis- instant check system. That is not the buy from an authorized dealer. souri, February 13 of this year, a per- case. All instant check registrants that b 2115 son wanted for domestic battery in Illi- are created under this bill, H.R. 2122, nois. February 27, a person convicted of will be licensed by the Secretary of the Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I re- illegal possession of explosives in New Treasury. They will follow all regula- serve the balance of my time. Mexico. tions promulgated by the Secretary of Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am I could go on and on. I could read the Treasury. And, besides, it does not pleased to begin our general debate on 17,000 people in the last 6 months who take a rocket scientist to operate the H.R. 2122 by yielding 4 minutes to the were refused the right to buy a gun. system. It only takes the ability to call gentleman from Missouri (Mr. GEP- This law works. We had 70 or so per- in a name and the date of birth to the HARDT) the distinguished minority cent of Democrats, 30 percent of Repub- check system. The new instant check leader of the House. licans who voted in a bipartisan way registrants will not undermine the sys- (Mr. GEPHARDT asked and was for the Brady bill in 1993. It was a good tem in any way. given permission to revise and extend thing to do. It was common sense. And Miss Reno also complains that the his remarks.) it has worked. requirement in the bill that all back- Mr. GEPHARDT. Mr. Chairman, I The problem is there was a loophole, ground check of records and trans- rise tonight to urge Members to sup- as often there is in laws that we write, actions that go through must imme- port the McCarthy amendment that is and a lot of people have been driving diately be destroyed will undermine cosponsored by the gentlewoman from through that loophole. The loophole is her ability to audit the system. The New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) and the that we have a thing called gun shows only need to audit the system is to en- gentlewoman from New Jersey (Ms. and flea sales, flea markets, where peo- sure that unauthorized checks are not ROUKEMA) and the gentlewoman from ple can go and buy weapons today and being run. We do not need to keep the Maryland (Mrs. MORELLA) the gen- not have the Brady check. And so, what we are on the floor to- records on everybody who files to buy a tleman from Illinois (Mr. BLAGOJEVICH) night in part to remedy is that loop- gun. That is not the way we do things and others. And I recommend it to hole. And I believe that the McCarthy in America. We should not have that Members because I think it is the most amendment does that the best, for two kind of filing that is kept. That is non- reasonable and common-sensical ap- reasons. One, I think it has the defini- sense. While it may be a benefit in cer- proach to this problem. tion of a ‘‘gun show’’ that is tight tain respects to have these records, it Let me begin the debate tonight by enough to pick up most of the gun is certainly not worth the risk of al- submitting some agreements that I think all of us agree to. shows. And secondly, the time period, lowing the government to keep records and the gentleman from Florida (Mr. of individual law-abiding citizens for I think all of us here believe in the Second Amendment, we believe in the MCCOLLUM) has talked about this, is months at a time. longer than in other amendments that Again, I am very disappointed in the right of American citizens to have, pos- will be presented and allows the check Attorney General and her purported sess, and bear arms. to actually take place. criticism of the underlying bill, which, Let me also submit that all of us be- lieve that doing something about the Now, in truth, about 90 percent of the as I said, does not have merit. people will be able to buy the gun at I believe H.R. 2122 strikes a fair bal- availability of guns to children is not going to solve alone or nearly alone the the gun show because the instant ance between the need to assure that check is working and it will not stop problem of school violence that we firearms are kept out of the hands of them from being able to buy the gun at face. criminals and the right of law-abiding the site within the first hour or so There are a lot of other things that, citizens to keep and bear arms. The bill after they make the purchase. will close the existing loophole that hopefully, will be considered here on So this is a reasonable piece of legis- could allow criminals to buy firearms the floor of the House in the days to lation. at gun shows. It will encourage the come. We need to address all of the I had an officer, a police officer, in government to conduct background problems of the way children are Chicago the other day come up to me checks as quickly as they practically raised, the way children are taught, so on a plane and he said, ‘‘You know, it can, without risking that a firearm that we can raise law-abiding, produc- is really important that you get rid of might be sold to a convicted criminal tive citizens in the case of every child this gun show exclusion.’’ He said, ‘‘I simply because the courthouse where in our country. go into high schools all over Chicago the conviction record was kept was But the McCarthy amendment and and I ask kids, ‘Do you have a gun at closed on the weekend of the gun show. the amendment presented by the gen- home?’ Everybody raises their hand. I We need this legislation. We need to tleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM), ask, ‘How many of you know where the close the loophole. We need to keep the which has many merits about it, are gun is right now?’ Everybody raises guns out of the hands of convicted fel- both based on the idea that the Brady their hand. I ask them, ‘How many ons. It is so important to do so that I bill that we passed in 1993 has been an have shot the gun?’ Everybody raises am asking my colleagues to set aside important change in the law that has their hand.’’ all of the differences, all of the bick- brought about an improvement in He said, ‘‘I grew up in the inner City ering that has been going on over the terms of who is able to buy guns. of Chicago; and I can tell you, when I little ‘‘i’s’’ and ‘‘t’s’’ and so forth out The Department of Justice today re- was a kid,’’ and he was not that old, here. Consider the safety of our chil- leased information that said that in certainly not as old as I am, he said, dren and grandchildren and vote in the last 6 months 17,000 criminals, peo- ‘‘guns were not that available.’’ He favor of this bill. ple who had been convicted of crimes, said, ‘‘When we had a fight in school, It does not need to be amended on were refused the ability to buy a gun maybe it was a fistfight. At worst, it the gun show portion. It is a solid because of the operation of the Brady was a knife somebody brandished. But piece, well balanced, well thought out law. nobody could get to a gun.’’ And he to protect both the law-abiding person Let me just read some of the cases said, ‘‘The truth is, and I know this for who wants to buy a gun at a gun show; that were affected under the Brady a fact because I work in this area, the to protect the organizer of a gun show law. guns that are coming into Chicago now who should not be subjected to the un- On January 9, 1999, in Texas a con- are coming through the gun shows and necessary liability hazards that are in victed murderer was not allowed to buy the flea markets because people that the other body’s version of this, and a weapon. On February 6, 1999, a person want to sell guns to kids are going may be an amendment offered out here under indictment for aggravated as- there to get out of the Brady law.’’ today; and it protects the American sault with a deadly weapon was denied This is a loophole we need to close, and public, which is most important, our the right to buy a weapon. On February we can close it tonight. children and our grandchildren, from 27 of this year, a person convicted of Now, let me end with this: I think a those convicted felons who might oth- aggravated kidnapping with intent to lot of Americans are tuning in tonight H4576 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 to hear this debate because I think the through the movies, through tele- that can be used by Federal law en- American people are looking to us in a vision. And our response to that? A res- forcement officials in criminal inves- bipartisan way to take a small step in olution of the sense of Congress. tigations. the right direction to address a prob- So if we really want to get into this Criticisms of this bill by the adminis- lem that I believe is a national crisis. problem, let us get into all facets of it. tration suggest it does not close the When we have Littleton and we have Now, let us talk about guns. Much as gun show loophole. Those criticisms Georgia and we have Arkansas and we some do not like it, or much as some are entirely unfounded. Let me explain have Oregon and we have Kentucky are very uncomfortable with it, there the definition of ‘‘gun show.’’ H.R. 2122 and we have kids killing kids in high is a Second Amendment to the Bill of would define a gun show as, quote, ‘‘an schools, not just in inner cities but in Rights to the Constitution and that event which is sponsored to foster the suburbs all across this country, we Second Amendment says, the right of collecting, competitive use, sporting have a national crisis. the people to keep and bear arms shall use or any other legal use of firearms, We lost more kids yesterday to not be infringed. and 50 or more guns are offered for school violence than we lost in Kosovo Okay. I believe in the Second Amend- sale, and there are not less than 10 ven- and in Bosnia in the last 3 years put to- ment and I believe people have the dors selling guns.’’ gether. This is a national crisis. Thir- right to keep and bear arms. On the This definition of gun shows reflects teen kids a day go down to school vio- other hand, there are serious problems the real world we live in. The adminis- lence. with the proliferation of weapons. tration opposes the 10 vendor require- The police officer in Chicago said There are, in my judgment, too many ment, arguing that gun transactions at when he was talking to me on the guns too easily accessible to kids, and smaller gatherings would not be sub- plane, ‘‘It is 9:30 at night. There have we have to do something about it. It is ject to background checks. We are not already been three funerals in the City a shame we cannot do something about aware and the administration has not of Chicago of children who were killed it together rather than in a partisan offered any evidence to the contrary by children tonight.’’ And he said, it is way. that any of the 4,400 gun shows last every night, every night, every night, Now, I support H.R. 2122, the Manda- year had fewer than 10 vendors. To the every night. tory Gun Show Background Check Act, contrary,we know full well the average We know this is not going to solve which will close the loophole in current gun show has many vendors that often the problem alone. But it is a step in law that permits dangerous criminals fill the entire exhibition halls and con- the right direction. to buy guns at gun shows without man- vention centers. Let me discuss the definition of a I went to Littleton on the Sunday datory background checks. ‘‘gun show vendor.’’ The administra- they had the memorial service a week There has been a lot of discussion in tion opposes the requirement in H.R. after the children were killed. I met the Senate and the House about how to 2122 that a vendor is someone who sells with Colin Powell and the Vice Presi- deal with gun shows. There are ap- firearms at a gun show from a fixed lo- dent, the parents of the dead children. proximately 4,400 gun shows annually cation. This fixed location condition is They came through one at a time. It in the United States, and many of the necessary, because gun show organizers took an hour and a half. I hugged them. people who buy guns at those shows do are subject to Federal criminal pros- I cried with them. As I held them in so without going through a background ecution if they do not register every my arms, all I could think of was my check. vendor selling firearms at their gun kids. Only federally licensed firearm deal- shows. These organizers cannot know One of the mothers had the picture of ers are required to run checks on pro- someone is merely attending a gun her child with a frame. She sobbed in spective buyers at gun shows. While show and spontaneously offers to sell a my arms for about 2 minutes. I cried there are many licensed gun dealers firearm to another person. This hap- with her. When she stepped back, she selling their guns at gun shows, there pens. Some people attend gun shows looked at me and she said, ‘‘Congress- are just as many unlicensed guns and and bring guns they want to sell if they man, please go back to the Congress they do not have to run background can find a buyer at the right price. It and take some step so that my child checks. So H.R. 2122 changes that. Any would be unfair to hold organizers did not die in vain.’’ That is what we and all gun transfers at gun shows will criminally liable for something they owe the people of this country tonight. have to undergo a background check. cannot control. It will only serve to This should not be a political issue, a Some believe that gun shows should discourage organizers from conducting partisan issue, a Democrat-Republican be completely shut down, and they gun shows which may be the hidden issue. This is an issue of our children, have used their version of mandatory agenda of some. Every firearm trans- of saving children’s lives, of making background checks as a disguise for action at every gun show, regardless of guns less available to the children of closing them down. Well, I think that whether the seller is a licensed dealer, this country. We can do this. We can is wrong. If they want to close gun a vendor or just an attendee and re- make America better tonight. shows down, propose it. If they want gardless of whether the transfer occurs I urge Members to search their con- mandatory background checks all the within the building housing the gun science and their heart, let us not let time under every circumstance, then show or in the surrounding parking lot these children die in vain. Vote for a propose that. But do it with definitions requires a background check. good, common-sense amendment, the and realistic regulations, as we have Now, this bill, this amendment, pro- McCarthy amendment. done in H.R. 2122. vides a middle way between the Dingell Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, it This proposal on gun shows is amendment and the Lautenberg or the gives me pleasure to yield 7 minutes to straightforward. It will work in the McCarthy amendment. It is a middle the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) real world. It achieves everything that way. It is a balance, to balance the the distinguished chairman of the is necessary to ensure that mandatory rights of legitimate gun owners and House Committee on the Judiciary. background checks are performed by balance the rights of the vulnerable (Mr. HYDE asked and was given per- responsible people at gun shows, and it public. And so I hope that Members mission to revise and extend his re- does so without driving them out of will consider it in that light as the marks.) business or interfering with private middle way and as a compromise and Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I listened sales and family transactions. acceptable. to the Democratic leader’s marvelous b 2130 Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield words and emotional, and rightly so, myself 2 minutes. presentation; and I could not agree H.R. 2122 requires a background (Mr. CONYERS asked and was given with him more. We have a very serious check for every buyer at a gun show. It permission to revise and extend his re- problem. But, oh, my God, it goes so also requires gun show organizers, li- marks.) far beyond guns. censed dealers and instant check reg- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, this is Yesterday we talked about the poison istrants, those are individuals author- the most amazing piece of legislation that is being fed to our children ized to conduct instant background that has never come out of the Com- through videos, through the games, checks at gun shows, to keep records mittee on the Judiciary. What we do is June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4577 in closing a loophole that has been try is at fault. But they claim the gun about that, because it gives the appear- graphically described by the gentleman industry is responsible for violence in ance of doing something without doing from Florida is that we open up one, our society. This is outrageous hypoc- something. But who are my Republican two, three, four, four new loopholes risy. colleagues answering to, the NRA or and reopen a loophole that had been The debate today is not about blame. our children and our families and the closed previously. It is about the Federal role in the in- tragedies we have seen across this The gunrunner loophole, and I hope terpretation of the second amendment. country? somebody on the other side wants to I am going to focus my remarks today To those 56 Republicans who voted discuss this with me on their time. The on section 3 of the gentleman from for the Brady bill, finish the job with gunrunner loophole. That means that Florida’s bill, the instant check gun us. Stand with us. Vote for the McCar- nine vendors, there is a 10 vendor re- tax and gun owner privacy section. thy-Roukema amendment. Close this quirement here, nine vendors then All of us agree that criminals should loophole that criminals are using to could sell all the weapons they could not be allowed to purchase guns. At the buy guns and show that you are stand- bring in in a truck without being re- same time, I believe the Federal Gov- ing for our Nation’s children and quired to do background checks. ernment should not keep permanent against a gun lobby that has gotten out The let’s-step-outside loophole which records and lists of law-abiding gun of control and out of touch with the allows vendors to complete their trans- owners after they have already cleared priorities of the American people. The actions by merely stepping out of the the hurdles of an instant background life you save with this vote may not grounds of the gun show to make the check. No law-abiding gun owner has a only be your own, but more impor- deal. problem with a background check to tantly it may be of your child or your The roving vendor loophole which al- purchase a firearm. What he or she re- grandchild or your neighbor’s child. lows gun vendors to sell firearms with sents is the central government uncon- This is a crucial vote. This is a vote no background checks if they are sim- stitutionally keeping records of gun that sends a message whether we are ply walking the premises and not at ownership by innocent, law-abiding serious about entering the next cen- any fixed location. citizens. tury making our schools and our com- The convicted felon loophole which When the Brady bill was passed, gun munities safer for our children and our weakens all instant background shows were excluded from background families. checks, thanks a lot, from 3 business checks because the checks took several Vote for the McCarthy amendment. days, to 72 consecutive hours. Get it? Is weeks to complete. Today we have an Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am that hard for anybody to figure out, automated database that allows back- very pleased to yield 1–3⁄4 minutes to what that does? ground checks to be completed in a the gentleman from New York (Mr. And then we go back and reopen a couple of minutes. In fact we had testi- NADLER), a member of the Committee closed loophole, the Lee Harvey Oswald mony that those checks could be com- on the Judiciary. loophole, that would allow a gun dealer pleted in 3 to 5 minutes. So we can eas- (Mr. NADLER asked and was given to ship a firearm across State lines di- ily screen out felons attempting to pur- permission to revise and extend his re- rectly to the private residence if any chase guns at gun shows. marks.) part of the transaction took place at a With a fully operational database of Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, every gun show. felons and other classes prohibited time an outrage such as that at Col- Now, what is the remedy? There are from buying guns, we can eliminate umbine where children are killed oc- two opportunities to correct the prob- any Federal record of law-abiding gun curs, we hear from the NRA that guns lem. One is the McCarthy amendment owners. This legislation guarantees no do not kill people, people kill people. and one, the second is the Conyers- records will be kept of legal gun owners But the truth is, of course, that guns Campbell bipartisan substitute, word while strictly enforcing current laws do not kill people. People with guns for word are the same. for criminals who attempt to purchase kill people. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance guns. The United States has the loosest of my time. I believe the second amendment right gun laws of any industrialized country. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I to own a gun is inherently tied to the That is why we have the following sta- yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from right to not have the government know tistics. When you look at other indus- Utah (Mr. CANNON) a member of the who owns a gun. This legislation trialized countries, France, 36 people committee. assures that. I urge passage of this killed with handguns; in Great Britain, (Mr. CANNON asked and was given amendment. 213; in Germany 200; in the United permission to revise and extend his re- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am States 9,390. Three years ago, 5 years marks.) pleased to yield 2 minutes to the gen- ago we passed a Brady law, finally Mr. CANNON. Mr. Chairman, this has tleman from New Jersey (Mr. MENEN- after much effort. That law has kept been a monumental week. We are deal- DEZ). 400,000 guns out of the hands of felons ing with two great constitutional (Mr. MENENDEZ asked and was and mentally incompetent people, peo- issues in the first and second amend- given permission to revise and extend ple who should not have had guns. Now ments. his remarks.) we are trying to have some modest pro- I rise now in support of H.R. 2122 in- Mr. MENENDEZ. Mr. Chairman, I am posals to close some loopholes. troduced by the gentleman from Flor- here to ask Members to show some Unfortunately, the rule did not make ida (Mr. MCCOLLUM). He and the staff courage for the sake of our children. I in order a proposal to ban gun kits of the Committee on the Judiciary am here to ask the 56 Republicans who from being sent out, gun kits that worked hard. Now we in Congress must were brave enough to buck the power made a gun that killed a constituent of meet the two challenges. On the one of the gun lobby and vote for the Brady mine, Ari Halberstam, for the crime of hand, the Democrats charge that we law to show that courage again and being in the wrong place at the wrong must immediately address this na- vote for the McCarthy-Roukema- time and identifiably Jewish. tional crisis of youth violence and on Blagojevich amendment which closes They did not make in order the one- the other we must ensure that prudent the last loophole in the Brady law. gun-a-month amendment so that gun- steps be taken to protect the liberties Right now a criminal with a rap runners could not go to Florida, buy guaranteed by the second amendment sheet of violent crimes can go to a flea 100 guns, come back and sell them on of the Constitution. market and buy an arsenal of weapons the black market in New York. But I listened with interest to the and not even be subject to a criminal they did make in order the McCarthy charges made by my friends on the background check. This is an out- amendment. They did make in order other side of the aisle. They decry sin- rageous and inexcusable state of affairs the Conyers-Campbell substitute. gling out the entertainment industry’s and the McCarthy-Roukema amend- We should pass these amendments, responsibility for an increase in vio- ment stops it. The Republican bill, we should reject the Dingell amend- lence in our society. They claim it is however, falls far short from closing ment which actually put more loop- unreasonable to think that one indus- the loophole. Now, the NRA is happy holes into the law, so that we can be H4578 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 honest with the American people when b 2145 MAN), a member of the Committee on we go home and tell them we have done But I am going to pay homage and the Judiciary and doing a wonderful something to give them a little more respect to the dead children and those job. assurance that their children will not that may die tomorrow and the day (Mr. ROTHMAN asked and was given be the next victims of this country’s after tomorrow and next month. permission to revise and extend his re- fatal obsession with guns. It is important that we realize that marks.) Mr. Chairman, when are we going to get se- gun shows around this Nation are un- Mr. ROTHMAN. Mr. Chairman, this rious about limiting access to guns? When are regulated, that people buy guns with- week we have addressed the issue of ju- we going to stand up to the NRA and pass out checks, that law enforcement offi- venile crime by passing some impor- legislation to save lives? cers cannot find them. We need to sup- tant measures. We have voted for men- Listen to Jesse Bateman, a junior high port the McCarthy amendment that toring programs, after-school pro- school student from Louisiana, who wrote, closes the loopholes on gun shows. We grams, juvenile witness assistance pro- ``Five of my friends and I were hanging out at need to support the Conyers-Campbell grams, toll-free hotlines for anony- another one of our friend's house. All of a sud- bipartisan bill, and it is too bad we did mous student tipsters, and we have den two people who we thought were our not have the Jackson-Lee amendment even voted to help local communities friends walked in with guns. They demanded that would ask that children be accom- install metal detectors for their that we give them . . . drugs and money, and panied into gun shows. schools. Only one substantive step and when we told them that we didn't have any, I am going to stand here every day the most important step needs to be they started shooting. Two of my friends died and support the dead children and not taken: taking the guns out of the hands and another one was paralyzed from the waist pay homage and worship to the throne of the children. down. One of the ones that died was my best of the National Rifle Association. Mr. Chairman, I am a Democrat who friend, he got shot in the head and died in- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, what believes in the second amendment stantly.'' is the time situation on both sides? right to bear arms; the right to bear People with guns kill our children every day, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman arms by responsible adults. and we ought to do everything we can to limit from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) has 91⁄2 There were many factors that con- access to these deadly weapons. The gun minutes remaining; the gentleman tributed to the recent school killings: safety amendments that we will soon consider from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 183⁄4 lack of parental involvement, the prev- are extremely modest measures. It is the least minutes remaining. alence of violent, cruel and sadistic we can do. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield video games, television shows, and The NRA-written Dingell amendment is a 11⁄2 minutes to the gentlewoman from movies. But when all is said and done, sham that actually weakens our existing law. California (Ms. LOFGREN), a member of the main culprit was the easy accessi- Had it been in effect for the last six months, the Committee on the Judiciary. bility of guns to the children. 17,000 people who were denied access to Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, this Mr. Chairman, some people think guns would have gotten them. It guts the spring, like other mothers and fathers that Americans cannot do two things Brady law by reducing the amount of time that across the country, I froze when I heard at once. They think that it is impos- police have to investigate the background the news of what was happening in Col- sible to allow law-abiding adults to checks of individuals with questionable arrest umbine High School, and I think, like own guns while at the same time re- records from 3 business days to 24 hours. the other mothers across the country, stricting children’s access to guns. What is the rush to get guns into felon's my first reaction was, ‘‘Are my kids They underestimate the intelligence hands? We can't wait three days before allow- safe?’’ and the ability of the American people ing individuals with suspect records to obtain As we sorted through the massacre to recognize and respond to the need deadly weapons? This is outrageous. that happened there, all of us parents for responsible gun control measures Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield realized that something needed to be where our children are concerned. 11⁄2 minutes to the gentlewoman from done. Most Americans and most Democrats Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE), a member of Finally, the United States Senate support common-sense gun legislation the Committee on the Judiciary. acted. They adopted modest gun safety that allows law-abiding adults to have (Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas asked measures for our children. Since then, guns, but keeps guns out of the hands and was given permission to revise and in this House, what an odd dance we of criminals and children. The Senate extend her remarks.) have seen. What could have been sim- has already done their job: Passed com- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. ple here in the House of Representa- mon sense gun laws. Now it is up to the Chairman, I thank the distinguished tives has become complicated—too House to do the same. It is up to us not ranking member of the Committee on complicated. Tonight, however, we to fail our children. the Judiciary for yielding me this have a chance to make it simple again. I urge my colleagues to support the time. And what do we need to do? McCarthy-Roukema and Conyers- I come tonight to honor and to pay We need to vote for the McCarthy Campbell amendments. Let us not let tribute to children that have died. A amendment. We need to vote for the our children down. young boy, Chris Hollowell, age 5, was Hyde-Lofgren large clip amendment, Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield unintentionally shot and killed by his and, by supporting these amendments, 1 minute to the gentleman from Or- 10-year-old brother at a relative’s we will conform our conduct with what egon, (Mr. BLUMENAUER). house. The boys were handling a semi- the Senate did. Mr. BLUMENAUER. Mr. Chairman, I automatic handgun they found in their Will this solve everything? No, it will thank the gentleman for yielding me uncle’s bedroom, in the closet, when not. There will still be disturbed chil- this time. the gun went off and struck Chris in dren. There will still be neglected kids It is a sad day when the Speaker of the head. The brother dragged him to who do wrong. There will still be chil- this House is unable to deliver on his the front lawn screaming in pain for dren whose conduct is skewed towards promise of a deliberative process on ef- help, and Chris was pronounced dead at violence. But we know this. forts to reduce gun violence. This bill a hospital 30 minutes later. If those boys in Colorado had not had bypassed entirely the substantive com- Someone sitting in their living room all of those guns, a lot of other good mittee process, despite the promise of is saying, ‘‘Well, I told you, it’s that kids would have been alive to graduate the Republican leadership; a pointless boy that did it.’’ But it is really guns; from Columbine High School last week. delay, which has only allowed the NRA 260 million of them. That is why I rise So it really is easy tonight. Stand up and other gun violence apologists to to say that we must support the for what the mothers and fathers of politick and fund-raise to their hearts’ McCarthy amendment, and unfortu- America want us to do tonight: deliver content, while distorting the effects of nately argue against and oppose H.R. to them the sensible gun safety laws. this modest Senate provision. 2122. Because H.R. 2122 sidesteps the They expect no less. We have an opportunity to support issue. It pays homage and worships at Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield these provisions rather than weakening the throne of the National Rifle Asso- 1 minute and 45 seconds to the gen- them further and show that there is a ciation. tleman from New Jersey (Mr. ROTH- way to give voice to the concerns of June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4579 the overwhelming majority of the bill. A person under indictment for sec- completing a gun purchase. Like the back- American public on this issue. If we ond degree murder would have obtained ground check itself, it is a small inconvenience care about families, we should enact a gun in North Carolina on January 2, that will saves lives. I urge the adoption of the Federal child access laws like 17 States 1999. On April 10, a person under a re- McCarthy amendment. have done. We can close the gun show straining order for domestic violence Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield loophole rather than make it worse. would have been cleared, and on May 1 minute to the gentlewoman from Illi- These are modest steps, but they start 15, a person convicted of rape in Vir- nois (Ms. SCHAKOWSKY). us in a new direction to make America ginia would have gotten a gun. But be- (Ms. SCHAKOWSKY asked and was a little less lethal. cause law enforcement had 3 business given permission to revise and extend The victims of gun violence are not days to complete the background check her remarks.) just the children in schoolyards, class- of these individuals, the Brady law pre- Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Chairman, I rooms and America’s neighborhoods. vented them from completing a firearm thank the ranking member for yielding We are all being held hostage. It is purchase in North Carolina. me this time. time for a majority of the Members of If the background check is to do its I would like to read excerpts from a this Congress to stand up and start in job, if the gun show loophole is to be letter that I received. a new direction. closed, law enforcement must have the My name is Karly Kupferberg, and I Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield time it needs. The differences between live in Evanston, Illinois. I am 14 years 1 minute to the gentlewoman from these proposals are important: Vote for old, currently in the 8th grade, attend- California (Mrs. CAPPS). the McCarthy substitute. ing Haven Middle School. Mrs. CAPPS. Mr. Chairman, as a Mr. Chairman, firearms legislation tends to School is supposed to be a place former school nurse, I feel so strongly focus intense heat in the House. What I want where kids go to get an education and about the national crisis of gun vio- to try to do is shed a little light. to start their future. Also, school is lence in our schools. The competing gun safety bills that the supposed to be where kids can go and In my district, many law-abiding House is considering do not appear to differ feel safe, but instead, more and more citizens own guns, and, of course, I greatly, but the differences are important to kids are dying at school. strongly support the rights of hunters keeping firearms out of the possession of fel- I know that when I heard about the and sportsmen to keep and use their ons, fugitives, and those with a record of do- Columbine shooting, I thought to my- firearms. But there is no reason why mestic violence, drug abuse or mental illness. self, here we go again. The next day I children and teenagers should have The Brady law, despite all of the predictions had to go to school in a similar envi- such easy access to guns. There is no made in 1994 that it would not work, has ronment of the Columbine shooting simple solution to youth violence, but stopped over 400,000 gun sales to dangerous and worry about someone coming in common-sense safety legislation is the persons. It has helped reduce the homicide with a gun, opening fire. It was terri- place to start. rate in the United States to the lowest in a fying. I have heard it argued that safety generation. And now we have the chance to This is too much for kids to deal locks and real gun show background plug the Brady bill's greatest loophole: unregu- with, and I don’t find it fair. Why check provisions will not save many lated gun shows. should we have to worry about dying at lives. But even if these bills save the No doubt, the background check required by school? life of just one child, is that not the Brady law is an inconvenience, but it is a I think it is time as a Nation for us enough? small inconvenience that has saved lives. The to put our foot down to these school Let us stand up for America’s fami- Department of Justice is working hard to make shootings and do something about it. A lies. Let us keep our children safe from the instant check more convenient. Some 73 very good way to start would be Fed- the horrors of gun violence. percent of all background checks are ap- eral gun control laws. Something has Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield proved instantly. Another 22 percent are ap- to be done, because by the appearance 1 minute to the gentleman from North proved within two hours. That adds up to 95 of things right now, it doesn’t look like Carolina (Mr. PRICE). percent of all background checks, approved much is getting done on Capitol Hill. (Mr. PRICE of North Carolina asked within two hours. The remaining five percent Karly says, we want it stopped, and and was given permission to revise and require additional information before a pur- we need help because we cannot do it extend his remarks.) chase can be completed or denied. by ourselves. Mr. PRICE of North Carolina. Mr. Perhaps the most important difference be- We can help Karly, my grand- Chairman, the competing gun safety tween the competing bills we vote on today is daughter, Isabel and all of our children bills that the House is considering do the length of time allowed to clear or deny that by plugging the loopholes and voting not appear to differ greatly, but in fact remaining five percent. The Dingell proposal for McCarthy, Roukema and those differences are important to gives law enforcement twenty-four hours or Blagojevich amendment. keeping firearms out of the wrong the gun gets transferred. The Hyde-McCollum I would like to read a letter that I received. hands and closing the gun show loop- proposal gives seventy-two hours. The McCar- May 16, 1999. hole. thy proposal, like the Brady law, gives law en- DEAR JAN SCHAKOWSKY, My name is Karly The Department of Justice has Kupferberg and I live in Evanston, Illinois. I forcement three business days to track down am fourteen years old, currently in the worked to make the instant check the details to make certain that a gun buyer is eighth grade attending Haven Middle School, more convenient. Some 73 percent of not a prohibited person before allowing the Next year I will be entering Evanston Town- all background checks now are done in- transfer. ship High School as a freshman. Over the stantly; another 22 percent within 2 Let's be clear about who in North Carolina past couple of years, as you know, there have hours. That means just 5 percent re- would have been cleared for guns if the been an extremely high number of school quire additional information before the present check was only twenty-four hours, as shootings. I noticed that each time these un- purchase can be completed, but that is in the Dingell bill. A person under indictment fortunate shootings happen, the assailants an important 5 percent. for second degree murder would have ob- become bolder which culminates in more The most important difference be- tragedy. School is supposed to be a place tained a gun on January 2, 1999. On April 10, where kids go to get an education and to tween these competing bills is the a person under a restraining order for domes- start to build their future. Also, school is length of time allowed to clear or deny tic violence would have been cleared to pur- supposed to be where kids can go and feel that remaining 5 percent. The Dingell chase a firearm. And on May 15, a person safe, but instead, more and more kids are bill gives law enforcement only 24 convicted of rape in Virginia would have got- dying at school. What is going on here? hours. The Hyde-McCollum proposal, 72 ten his gun. Because law enforcement had Schools are no place for violence and crime. hours. The McCarthy proposal, like the three business days to complete the back- This should not be happening to children, Brady law, gives law enforcement 3 ground check of these individuals, the Brady the future of America. How are kids sup- business days. posed to go and get an education when they law prevented them from completing a firearm have to be worried about their safety in Let me be clear about who in North purchase in North Carolina. school and it being the next place for these Carolina would have been cleared for It seems a small inconvenience to require school shootings to happen? I know that gun purchases if the present check that the five percent of questionable pur- when I heard about the Columbine shooting were only 24 hours, as in the Dingell chasers wait up to three business days before I thought to myself, ‘‘here we go again.’’ H4580 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 The next day I had to go to school, in a ures that might achieve that: the Hyde We should seek reasonable solutions. similar environment of the Columbine shoot- amendment, the Dingell amendment That is what the Dingell amendment ing, and worry about someone coming in and the McCarthy amendment. Three will help us to achieve. with a gun opening fire. Maybe one of my great Members, one good measure. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am classmates, maybe not, but either way it was Under the Hyde amendment, 9,000 terrifying. How can our nation tolerate these pleased to yield 1 minute to the gen- inhuman acts of terror and why is this hap- criminals could get guns within 6 tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. pening? This it too much for kids to deal months at gun shows. Under the Din- HOEFFEL). with and I don’t find it fair. Why should we gell amendment, 17,000 could get guns Mr. HOEFFEL. I thank the gen- have to worry about dying at school? at gun shows. This according to the De- tleman for yielding time to me, Mr. I think that it is time, as a nation for us partment of Justice. Chairman. to put our foot down to these school shoot- If it is about keeping criminals from Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong sup- ings and do something about it. A very good getting guns, support the McCarthy port of the McCarthy amendment. Con- way to start would be federal gun control amendment. gress needs to act in three areas to re- laws. Something has to be done, because by Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I store sensibility and workability to our the appearance of things right now, it yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from doesn’t look like much is getting done on gun laws. Capitol Hill. I know that I hate watching Texas (Mr. SMITH), a member of the First, we need to close the gaping these poor, innocent victims and their fami- committee. loophole that permits unregulated and lies as they are torn apart and traumatized Mr. SMITH of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I undocumented sales of guns at flea for life. My heart goes out to all the families thank the chairman of the Sub- markets and gun shows. victimized in these school shootings. Then I committee on Crime for yielding me Secondly, we need to restore a three- have to ask you, how can you sit in front of this time. day waiting period that would permit a the television at night watching the news Mr. Chairman, later on tonight we cooling-off period and also permit law and seeing all those horrifying pictures of will be considering the Dingell amend- the school shootings, and not worry about enforcement to do proper background ment, which I strongly support. checks. your children or grandchildren at school. I know that to many people, restric- You must fight back against all that is Third, we need to increase account- tions on the use and sale of weapons wrong and make it right for your kids. This ability and responsibility, requiring is what I have decided to do by writing this seem like common sense. Those who manufacturers to use the latest tech- letter. I’m hoping that everyone that reads live in urban areas, particularly the nology of child safety locks and load this letter will finally see that the children inner cities, seldom hear of a gun used indicators that would indicate whether of America are crying out for help and shel- for hunting or for sport. Instead, to guns are loaded, and we could tell at a ter from the crime and bloodshed. We want it them, guns are almost always associ- stopped and we need help because we can not glance, and require more account- ated with crime and violence. ability from parents to safely store do it by ourselves. By passing stricter gun Others know that guns are used safe- their guns. control laws and requiring the parents who ly for sport, to shoot game and to pro- own guns to lock them up, we can help piece The McCarthy amendment would re- tect one’s home. In fact, more guns are this nation back together. Other parents store the background checks and bring used each day in self-defense and to won’t have to worry if their kids are safe at gun show sales into compliance with prevent crime than are actually used school and children won’t have to worry recordkeeping and background checks. to commit crimes. Clearly, there is a about anyone coming into their school caus- These improvements will reduce ju- ing further tragedy. We need to act quickly difference of perspective based on indi- venile access to weapons. We should re- to stop school shootings from becoming as vidual’s own life experiences. culturally accepted unfortunately as gang The clash of opinions comes when store sanity, protect kids, and pass shootings have become in America. So please new gun control restrictions are per- McCarthy. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I un- help eliminate the crime from schools and ceived as punishing law-abiding citi- make them a safer place for kids of America. derstand both sides would be agreeable zens rather than the criminals them- Sincerely, to extending the time of the general selves. To me, the need is not for more KARLY KUPFERBERG. debate, so I ask unanimous consent for gun control legislation on the books, We can help Karly and my granddaughter an extension of the debate for 5 min- but better enforcement of the laws we Isabel and all of our children by closing the utes to each side, or a total of 10 min- already have. loopholes and passing the McCarthy, Rou- utes, and not on amendments, on the kema, Blagojevich Amendment and the Con- b 2200 general debate on this bill. yers Campbell Amendment. We all know that under this adminis- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, may tration there have been very, very few to the request of the gentleman from we get a reading on the time remaining prosecutions of crimes involving guns. Florida? on both sides? For example, thousands of felons There was no objection. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman were identified as attempting to ille- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 111⁄2 gally buy weapons under the Brady from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) and the minutes remaining; the gentleman law, yet this administration chose not gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) has 91⁄2 to prosecute a single person. YERS) shall each be recognized for an minutes remaining. We also know that we would not be additional 5 minutes. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield here today if the Littleton tragedy had The Chair recognizes the gentleman 1 minute to the gentleman from Illi- not occurred. Yet none of the proposed from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM). nois (Mr. BLAGOJEVICH). restrictions we will consider later to- Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. BLAGOJEVICH. Mr. Chairman, night would have prevented those yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from law-abiding citizens in the United deaths. What certainly would have pre- Alabama (Mr. EVERETT). States have nothing to fear from apply- vented the killings would have been (Mr. EVERETT asked and was given ing the Brady background checks to the enforcement of the dozen gun laws permission to revise and extend his re- gun shows. If one is a member of the that were broken during the course of marks.) NRA and one is law-abiding, the the acquisition, possession, and use of Mr. EVERETT. Mr. Chairman, we McCarthy gun show bill does nothing the guns involved. have some 20,000 plus gun laws in this to threaten one’s rights. However, if One more point, Mr. Chairman. The country. Yet, there are those on this one is a criminal and one wants to buy violence and crimes committed with floor that would tell us if we pass two a gun, that is the purpose of the guns are not the root problem, just the or three more, that will solve the McCarthy amendment. manifestation of it. The root problem whole problem of illegal use of guns. The focus is on the criminals. There is the destruction of American values. Does that not strike Members were 5,200 gun shows last year; 54,000 Our efforts should be directed towards strange, that Members of this floor guns came and were confiscated in strengthening those values, and not want to add to 20,000-plus gun laws al- crimes that came from gun shows. We passing restrictive amendments which ready on the books, most of which are have a gaping loophole that we are try- are going to be considered later tonight not enforced by this administration, by ing to close, and there are three meas- and which do not solve the problem. the way, but they do not want to pass June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4581 any laws to stop peddling of filth and Today I am proud to stand for the the books, and let us limit the access pointless violence to our children? McCarthy, et al., amendment, and I am of children to violent and sexually ex- The Columbine tragedy struck a proud to stand for the Conyers-Camp- plicit material. We do not need to pun- chord with all Americans, but we bell amendment, amendments that ish law-abiding Americans. We do not should be looking at the core of the keep our children safe, and any bully need more gun control legislation. issue, which is why young people think who wants to hold that against me I will oppose all attempts to chip it is okay to commit violent crimes. needs to spell my name right: W-O-O-L- away at America’s Bill of Rights, and I Could it possibly be that kids grow S-E-Y. urge my colleagues to do the same. The up seeing thousands of acts of violence Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Second Amendment and the 10th without seeing the consequences of 1 minute to the gentleman from Rhode Amendment are part of our Constitu- these actions? Island (Mr. KENNEDY). tion. Every single Member of this body There are video games where the fun Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island. Mr. took an oath to uphold the Constitu- of the game is to kill and maim people. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for tion of the United States of America. People even get extra points if they yielding time to me. Uphold the Constitution by defeating kill innocent bystanders. Movies with Mr. Chairman, I am looking at the any gun control measures on the floor no artistic merit are out there letting clock. It is 10 o’clock at night. We have tonight and in the future. kids see death and destruction at un- been debating for 2 days and we have fi- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am paralleled rates. We have let our chil- nally gotten to guns. I think about this pleased to yield 1 minute to the gentle- dren become numb to these things. afternoon, and the fact that we debated woman from California (Ms. LEE). Do not tell me there are those who the Ten Commandments. Ms. LEE. Mr. Chairman, let me just cannot tell the difference between Sav- It is not going to be until 3 in the say first that the gun show bill we are ing Private Ryan and Natural Born morning when we finally debate 10 bul- considering today falls far short of Killers. That is a disgrace to the mil- lets in every magazine that can be what this Congress should be doing to lions of Americans who experienced the stuck into a clip and mowed across any protect America’s children. This bill is violence of war in the defense of free- Long Island railway to take out some really a sham, the NRA has shot so dom. member of a family who is trying to many loopholes in the Senate gun show The uncalled-for violence that is pro- get home in the evening. We are going vided to our children through tele- language. to debate that at 3 o’clock in the morn- Let me just list a few of them. First vision, movies, video games, and music ing? Shame on this House and this of all, it opens up a gun runner loop- videos should stop. However, under the process. hole. H.R. 2122 would only apply the cloak of the First Amendment, many I cannot get my head around this want to allow these providers of vio- loophole thing that the Republicans definition at events where 10 or more lence and corrupters of our culture to keep talking about. They want loop- vendors are selling guns and where 50 police themselves. How very, very holes? Let me understand this cor- or more guns are sold, regardless of the strange. rectly. The Brady bill is designed to amount of guns sold. This means that Liberals claim that conservatives screen out criminals from getting guns, nine vendors could sell thousands of have been bought off by the NRA for but no, the Dingell amendment and the firearms at a gun show without being their opposition to more gun laws on Republicans want to create a loophole required to do any criminal back- law-abiding citizens. The focus should so that criminals can get guns. ground or age checks. be placed on if this administration and I do not get it. They want criminals It also opens up a ‘‘Let’s step out- the liberal wing of Congress have been to get guns. I cannot figure it out any side’’ loophole. The bill allows gun ven- bought off by Hollywood types who other way. If they did not want crimi- dors to complete transactions of gun have been getting filthy rich peddling nals to get guns, they would be for sales with no background checks if the filth to our young people. closing the loophole. That is what loop- seller and purchaser merely step out- The erosion of America’s morality holes are. They are mechanisms to get side of the curtilage of the gun show to has desensitized our children’s ability around the law. Let us close the loop- make the deal. to discern right from wrong, and even hole and pass the McCarthy amend- It also allows for a roving vendor to value human life. This debate should ment. loophole. This bill allows gun vendors not be about more laws on guns, or Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I at gun shows to sell firearms with no adding even more laws at any point. It yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from background checks if they are simply should be about our culture and values Georgia (Mr. CHAMBLISS). walking the premises. that have gone really, really wrong. (Mr. CHAMBLISS asked and was So please support the McCarthy-Rou- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield given permission to revise and extend kema and the Conyers-Campbell 1 minute to the gentlewoman from his remarks.) amendment. Without these amend- California (Ms. WOOLSEY). Mr. CHAMBLISS. Mr. Chairman, de- ments, these loopholes will mean that (Ms. WOOLSEY asked and was given spite all the rhetoric that is being used criminals will get guns. permission to revise and extend her re- by liberals here tonight, the thrust of Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield marks.) their effort is one of the most dis- 1 minute to the gentleman from New Ms. WOOLSEY. Mr. Chairman, I re- honest attempts to disguise legislation Jersey (Mr. PASCRELL). sent bullies, and I always have. I think that I have ever seen. (Mr. PASCRELL asked and was given that the leaders of the NRA are the To my colleagues and to my con- permission to revise and extend his re- bullies of all bullies. stituents in Georgia’s Eighth District, marks.) Today I find myself once again fight- they deserve to know what is behind Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Chairman, I ing against NRA threats, threats all the smoke and mirrors here to- have a question: What do the Inter- against Members of this body who sup- night. national Association of Chiefs of Po- port sensible gun control and plugging The majority of the amendments lice, the International Brotherhood of the gun show loophole. that we are debating are not about sav- Police Officers, the Police Foundation, Years ago, as a Member of the ing lives, they are about taking rights the National Association of Black Law Petaluma City Council in California, I away from law-abiding citizens. What Enforcement Officers, Black Execu- was threatened by these same individ- we are talking about is gun control. tives Research Forum, what do they all uals, who promised to post my name in That is the wrong issue. have in common? They support waiting their place of business if I voted for Just yesterday and today this House 3 business days, like we want, like the local gun control. approved amendments that were truly McCarthy proposal has put forth. Let me tell the Members, I told them aimed at saving lives, preventing trag- What do we know that they do not I would be proud to have my name edies, and solving the cultural prob- know? That is a question Members posted in their businesses, and I told lems facing our Nation. That is where must ask. I am tired of hearing about them how to spell my name. I did not we need to direct the debate tonight. liberal organizations. Are these liberal want my name up there unless it was Let us punish those who break the organizations? What is their hidden spelled right. law, let us enforce the laws already on agenda? They have to deal with this H4582 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 day in and day out, the police officers the President, we hear from the minor- just say that in 72 hours, over the of the country. They know what they ity leader, we hear from leaders trying weekend, the criminals are the ones are talking about. They look at this to make this issue 13. that will walk away with the guns. We firsthand. That is a lie. That is not the facts. know that. We have the statistics for Let us look at the record. Just this Two is too many. We cannot afford to that. If we go back to the 24 hours, I year in the State of Michigan, this lose any children. am saying between January and today year, February 6, 1999, a twice-con- I ask all of my colleagues if we pass if it was under 24 hours we would have victed domestic violence batterer; every amendment, if we pass every bill 17,000 criminals getting guns. April 24, 1999, a person convicted of do- that is before us, will Littleton have Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield mestic assault and battery, were been prevented? No. No, it would not. 1 minute to the gentleman from Massa- stopped because of the three-day rule. What has happened that very young chusetts (Mr. MCGOVERN). They would be out on the street today children can pull a trigger and kill an- Mr. MCGOVERN. Mr. Chairman, I doing their business. other human being? It used to be peo- rise proudly in strong support of the Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am ple who had been in the war and had McCarthy amendment. pleased to yield 1 minute to the gentle- scars and had emotional problems that Mr. Chairman, I believe I was elected woman from New York (Mrs. MCCAR- would crack and we would suddenly to help make this world a better place THY), one of the indefatigable Members have a crime wave in one of our cities. for our children and this amendment of the House. In World War II, I have been told that will simply close a loophole in current Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. less than 35 percent of the trained sol- law. It will simply make it more dif- Chairman, I am sitting here and I am diers could pull the trigger when they ficult for criminals to get guns at gun listening to this debate. I know what is had the enemy in front of their sights shows that they could not purchase in my amendment. My amendment is because of the value of life that we anyplace else. That is it. This is one closing a loophole. That loophole is not have all been taught to treasure. small reasonable way to make the taking away anyone’s right to buy a What has changed us? In the Vietnam world safer for our kids. gun except a criminal. War, I am told through video-type sim- As a new parent of a little boy, I care My amendment also puts in there ulations, that number went up much deeply about the safety of his world. So that there will be no national gun reg- higher because we taught them to pull I am casting my vote in favor of this istry. Has anyone read this amend- the trigger and pull the trigger at tar- amendment. gets that were like people, until they ment? We talk about adding new laws. I have been inundated with calls from were desensitized, and so they could We are not adding new laws. We are the NRA, like many of my colleagues. take a life without giving much using the existence of the Brady bill A well-financed NRA campaign has thought. that is already there. flooded my district with distorted in- Something has changed in this coun- Seventy-five percent of the people formation about what this amendment try. The people do not value life. That that go to gun shows can get their guns will do, and that is their right and they is what we need to deal with. It is not in a short amount of time. Some might certainly have money to promote the guns. Nobody wants criminals to have actually have to wait 2 hours. It is the distortions, but let me say, Mr. Chair- guns. criminals that have to wait. It is the man, they are wrong. What has desensitized young people? criminals that we want to wait. It is So I say to my colleagues, this is an the criminals, that is what we are sup- Just a few years ago when I was State chairman of health in Pennsylvania, I important issue. It is worth casting a posed to be doing. yea vote, even if it risks losing your Where is our debate going? We are was at Temple University at the trau- ma center. I was a member of the trau- seat. If we cannot come together on a supposed to be saving people’s lives, proposal so reasonable, then we have our police officers, our children. That ma board and they told me that 45 to 50 percent of the people at their trauma abandoned our communities and turned is our job, and that is what the Amer- our backs on our children. ican people want. center was from street crime in Phila- I urge my colleagues to vote yes on b delphia. 2215 Now some of that has moved out to the McCarthy amendment. Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I rural America where I live, and I am as Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from concerned as the people in Philadelphia 1 minute to the gentleman from Vir- Pennsylvania (Mr. PETERSON). and all of our cities. But what has ginia (Mr. MORAN). Mr. PETERSON of Pennsylvania. Mr. changed? They told me that street Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Chair- Chairman, I have found tonight’s de- crime dominated their trauma centers; man, we are all entitled to our own bate incredible. Just a few moments a third guns, a third knives, and a third opinion on this issue, but we are not ago, we were accused of wanting crimi- clubs. Are we going to deal with clubs entitled to our own facts. The fact is nals to get guns. and knives? That was their statistics, that in 1996, 10,744 people were mur- Now, does anyone really believe that unsolicited, for when I was chairman of dered with firearms in this country. any Member of this body, I would not health and welfare in Pennsylvania. That is more than were murdered with accuse anybody of that, wants crimi- Mr. Chairman, what has changed in firearms in all 25 industrialized nations nals to get guns? our communities and our schools about combined. Criminals steal guns. Criminals do drugs? Twenty years ago, there were In that same year, 106 people died of not buy guns in the marketplace. They few drugs in rural schools. They were firearms in Canada. Now, Canadians buy them in the black market. They in urban schools, and the crime was in love to hunt. They probably hunt more steal them. urban cities. Today there are drugs ev- than we hunt, but they understand We also have trivialized the Ten erywhere in this country, every ham- that handguns are not for the purpose Commandments. I would urge the gen- let, every corner. Drugs are available of hunting animals. They are for the tleman to read them. One is, Thou to 7th and 8th graders. What are we purpose of killing people. shalt not kill. That is one of the Ten doing about that? We have lost the war The gentleman suggests that that Commandments that was talked about on drugs. figure of 13 children being killed every today, and it was trivialized here a few We spent $18 billion, Mr. Chairman. day is not accurate. The fact is, 13 moments ago. The problem before us is far beyond the young people, under the age of 19 are Earlier this evening in this debate, gun. That is just part of the problem. killed every day in America. We do not we heard the figure of 13 children. Now, Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield read much about them probably be- one child is too many, but what is chil- 20 seconds to the gentlewoman from cause most of them are killed in the dren? I asked several people what they New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY). inner cities of our nation but they considered children and they said 10 Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. should matter and they should not be and under; 12 and under. Well, let us Chairman, being that I could not be killed because we have made handguns take 14 and under. The national sta- yielded time by the gentleman from too accessible to their killers and we tistic is less than 2, but we hear from Pennsylvania (Mr. PETERSON), let me should pass the McCarthy amendment June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4583 because it will probably save even a Massachusetts (Mr. DELAHUNT), a dis- today believe that that line is still few of those young lives. tinguished member of the Committee there. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield on the Judiciary. I will vote to protect those who use 1 minute to the gentleman from New Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, no guns legally and responsibly. The deci- York (Mr. MEEKS). one is accusing anyone of anything. sion to bear arms must be reserved for Mr. MEEKS of New York. Mr. Chair- Let me suggest that this is a bill of un- law-abiding Americans, not by this man, I do not know what world some intended consequences, but it is a dan- Congress. people have grown up in but I grew up gerous and irresponsible measure be- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield in urban America. From the time that cause it would weaken the Brady law 1 minute to the distinguished gentle- I can recall, I have seen people with and it will put lethal weapons into the woman from Florida (Mrs. MEEK). guns killing people. hands of criminals. That is because the (Mrs. MEEK of Florida asked and was It seems as though all of a sudden bill denies the FBI the 3 business days given permission to revise and extend there is a revolution or an evolution of it needs to complete its background her remarks.) guns on the streets and we do not want check on those very people that are Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chair- to realize that they are killing people most likely to have a criminal history, man, I thank the gentleman from every day. like the convicted rapist who traveled Michigan for yielding me this time. This amendment, the McCarthy from Virginia to North Carolina just Mr. Chairman, it is hard for me to amendment, simply closes a loophole. last month for the purpose of buying a understand why it has taken this Con- We could go much further. For exam- gun; or the man convicted of armed gress this long to pay any attention to ple, if we go back in the beginning of robbery and burglary in Georgia who gun violence. Each of us knows that the 19th century in the wild, wild West drove to Missouri last March for the this is a tragedy in our country, and we when guns were everywhere, there were purpose of buying a gun; or the mur- come here and we waste the taxpayers’ times where people had to check their derer in Texas, or the arsonist in New money talking about the NRA, talking guns in. There was gun control back Jersey who went all the way to Mis- about Democrats, talking about Repub- then. Yet here we are now not sensible sissippi last April for the purpose of licans, when the color of our blood is to see violence is here, and we must do buying a gun. the same regardless of where we are something to stop it. Now, these are just a few of the thou- from. Gun control is what stops it, and we sands of criminals who have tried to Why is it that it took Littleton for us are not even talking about that here in purchase handguns in the last 6 months to face this tragedy? In the district I this bill. For if we do not pass this bill, and were stopped because a 3-day, busi- represent, they are killed every day, let us then ask who the bell tolls for. ness day, background check revealed children are killed by spraying bullets, The bell tolls for thee. their criminal history before the sale yet we pay no attention, yet we come The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman could go through. here to try to undercut or degrade from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) has 31⁄2 If this bill had been the law of the amendments that come up to try to minutes remaining. The gentleman land 6 months ago, the FBI, and that is protect us. from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 6 not a liberal organization, Mr. Chair- Now, if we do not protect ourselves, minutes and 10 seconds remaining. man, estimates that 9,000 of these peo- no one else will protect us. We are here Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield ple would have been walking the in the highest body in this land, yet we 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from streets with a license to kill. So please, cannot face one of the worst tragedies Washington (Mr. INSLEE). Mr. Chairman, think of that before this this country has ever faced, and that is Mr. INSLEE. Mr. Chairman, tonight vote. the use of guns. we choose between common sense and The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Guns do not create violence alone, unreasoned fear. It would be common from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) has 31⁄2 but what creates violence is the atmos- sense to close loopholes with the minutes remaining. The gentleman phere of the people one lets have these McCarthy amendment on gun safety from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 3 guns. laws. It would be unreasoned fear to minutes 10 seconds remaining. I stand before my colleagues today think that keeping felons from fire- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I and plead to them to do the right arms will somehow keep dads from yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from thing. Stop worrying about how you deer rifles. On this night, we should Washington State (Mr. METCALF). look back home. Worry about how you choose common sense. Mr. METCALF. Mr. Chairman, we are look in your heart. It is important. I am a Member with a somewhat discussing today an issue which hark- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield unique perspective because in 1994 I ens back to our earliest times, before the remainder of the time to the gen- voted to ban assault weapons and I was the Revolution or even the Declaration tleman from New York (Mr. WEINER), a defeated. It was bitter and it was pain- of Independence. Those who have vis- member of the Committee on the Judi- ful, but I have not regretted that vote ited Lexington and Concord remember ciary. for one second, for a simple reason: the statues commemorating the (Mr. WEINER asked and was given Any child’s life is more important than ‘‘minute-men,’’ statues of frontiersmen permission to revise and extend his re- any Congressman’s seat. No Congress- with flintlock muskets ready to be marks.) man’s seat is more important than any used at a moment’s notice, and in mid- Mr. WEINER. Mr. Chairman, as much child’s life. April 1775 that moment arrived. The as some of my colleagues would like The reason I am back here now is British marched out of Boston on the this to be a debate about the history of that the world has changed since 1994. road to Lexington and Concord. the second amendment, about whether America is tired of burying its chil- I want to raise the question tonight: or not we should govern clubs and dren, and we need to put aside this no- Why, why were the British marching sticks as well as guns, this is a very tion that common sense will do any- out of Boston in those pre-dawn hours? simple and narrow proposition that we thing else but to restore order. are considering today; and that is, if a b In January of 2001, I will come to this 2230 person walks into a shop where guns floor and celebrate with my colleagues. The answer is appropriate to this dis- are sold on a Friday before a long I will celebrate the children who are cussion. The British had heard that the weekend, and they want to purchase a alive because of the actions we take to- colonists were stockpiling arms and gun, almost instantly 75 percent of night. ammunition at Lexington and Concord, those people that walk in there can I lost my seat in 1994 on gun issues, and they were intent on capturing and/ walk out with that gun with no prob- but I am going to win my seat in 2000 or destroying the colonists’ guns. lem at all. But if that same exact per- by voting for common sense for fami- When the British marched out to son walks into a gun show, they could lies. This is the right thing to do and, take away their guns, the colonists also walk out instantly, 75 percent of Mr. Chairman, America knows it. drew a line in the sand. They would go them. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield to war to protect their right to keep It is what happens to that other 30 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from and bear arms. Millions of Americans percent, the ones where a flag comes up H4584 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 on that Friday and we are unable to de- instantaneous background check in the if we want to reduce criminals' access to fire- termine why it is that that person has best sense that we can do that, a name arms we need to close the gun show loophole, a flag. check, to find out if one is indeed a and that means we need to have background Just so we understand here, over criminal with a felony record and, checks for firearms sales at gun shows. 300,000 people have walked into shops therefore, disqualified to buy that gun. In short, Mr. Chairman, requiring back- and tried to buy guns that were not en- That is all this is about tonight. ground checks of firearms sales at gun shows titled to have them, criminals, people I think the underlying bill is very re- seems like a common-sense measure to keep that were going to do wrong with them, sponsible. People have criticized var- guns out of the hands of criminals. Obviously, people that I am sure our Founding Fa- ious things about it, and misstated, I such a measure won't eliminate violent crime, thers would have said it is absurd to think, unintentionally, I am sure, some but it mightÐjust mightÐreduce the number of say that someone who is a batterer, things about it. The truth is that, firearms deaths in this country. someone who is rapist should be able to yeah, maybe 25 percent of the people Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Chairman, guns get that gun. I think my colleagues on who go to buy a gun, when they do go are not the only cause of youth violence. But the other side of the aisle understand through an instant check, whether it is the increasing tragedies from gun violence in that. I think they see the value of that. at a gun show or otherwise, are our schools tell us that our children enjoy easy All that we are saying today with the flagged. But 80 percent of those people access to guns, and strong steps should be McCarthy amendment, all we are say- who are flagged are not criminals. taken to restrict that access. ing today in rejecting the Hyde amend- They wind up getting those guns. A We must not lose sight of our goal. Our goal ment and rejecting the Dingell amend- very tiny fraction are screened out. is to keep our kids safe in school. ment is make it exactly the same for a When they are, they should be, though. customer walking into a gun show. The idea is to close a loophole in the That's what the tragedies in Littleton and At- Just make the rules consistent. Let us gun show, which, up until now, if one is lanta and Jonesboro and other suburban com- take that 30 percent or so and say, ‘‘Do not a registered dealer and one sells a munities have pointed out in dramatic fash- you know what, let us wait and find gun to somebody at a gun show, one ionÐthat even kids in our suburban high out why you have a flag.’’ What is the does not have this instant check. schools are not safe from gun violence. But in- harm in leveling that playing field? The underlying bill that I support stead of addressing this pressing issue, the That is all we are asking today. strongly requires the instant check for Republican leadership has failed to act re- For those of my friends who are avid everyone who purchases a gun at a gun sponsibly in a time of crisis. They have al- gun users who represent districts show, just like everyone who purchases lowed months to pass since the tragedy of where guns are purchased heavily, I a gun from a gun dealer anywhere else. Littleton, Colorado before taking action to curb would ask them to ask their gun shop It should not be a problem. It should the gun violence that threatens our children owners why it is they would be dealt not be a difficult vote. It is one that a throughout the country. And now that they with a different playing field than lot of people want to offer other have chosen to act, they do so with the ugly those who are in the gun show. amendments to. But, quite frankly, face of partisanship and irresponsibility. What is the rationale? The rationale what we do here is a simple balance in Columbine High School was a real tragedy, is plain and simple, I would say to the truth of this. We give the right amount but it is no more significant than the tragedy opponents of the McCarthy amend- of time to check on it and not an exces- that many of us experience in our districts ment. The National Rifle Association sive amount. I urge that the bill be every day. As a representative of an inner-city says they do not want it; therefore, we voted on and that frivolous amend- district, I know that the tragedy of gun violence are not going to do it here. That does ments not be voted for. to our young people and by our young people not make sense. Over 300,000 criminals Mr. COYNE. Mr. Chairman, we as a nation has had heart-breaking consequences in my have been prevented from getting guns need to act to reduce gun-related violence in district for many years. In just the last few at shops. Let us stop them at gun this country. months, there has been a series of violent in- shows as well. In 1994, Americans owned 192 million fire- cidents that involved youth and that I wish I Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I arms, 65 million of which were handguns. That could say were unusual. yield myself the balance of the time. same year, more than 15,000 people were But unfortunately, they are all too frequent Mr. Chairman, I think what we are killed with firearms in this country, nearly in my district. here tonight to debate and what this 13,000 of them with handguns. Those figures In Huntington Park, for example, two young- underlying bill is all about is some- are much higherÐeven on a per capital sters shot it out in front of city hall, wounding thing that we all ought to be able to basisÐthan in any other developed country. innocent bystanders. agree on. It is not a bill about control- Several weeks ago, President Clinton pro- In southgate, Mayor Henry Gonzalez was ling guns in this country and the broad posed legislation which would require back- shot in the head after a city council meeting sense of that debate. It is a fact that I ground checks for firearm sales at gun shows. when two youth attempted to rob him. Fortu- happen to believe in the second amend- I welcome the President's initiative. nately, Mayor Gonzalez survived the attack ment and the right to bear arms, self- Background checks and waiting periods are but he was severely wounded and spent defense and so forth. just simple, practical, and constitutional meas- weeks in intensive care. But I am concerned, and that is why ures for ensuring that people who should not this amendment is here, with the fact have guns don't get them. Since 1994, the In southeast Los Angeles near Walnut Park, that we have laws rightfully on the Brady Law has blocked the sale of handguns a series of drive-by shootings have taken books that everybody in this country to over 250,000 prohibited purchasers. Of this place in recent weeks. agrees with, and that is laws that say number, over 47,000 were felons. Moreover, The cancer of violence that has impacted that felons, convicted felons, should after the Brady Law took effect in 1994, the major cities for years is now spreading across not be allowed to get guns. number of murders in this country fell by 9 the country. We cannot ignore this crisis as We have a problem with the fact that percent, while the number of murders com- we have in the past, nor can we effectively ad- some kids are getting killed on our mitted with a firearm fell by 11 percent. dress it with diluted gun safety measures and streets, all too many of them, with vio- In May, the Senate passed legislation that feel-good juvenile crime provisions that do lit- lent youth crime. One of the principal would require background checks for firearms tle, as the Republican leadership would have reasons why that is occurring is be- sales at gun shows. Today, the House has a us do. cause there is a loophole in the current chance to vote on similar legislation. I urge my I voted for the Brady bill and for the assault instant check laws. colleagues to join me in supporting this impor- weapons ban, and the facts support that they I do not favor waiting periods, and we tant legislation. have made an enormous difference in pre- are not talking about that tonight. We Credible evidence indicates that gun shows venting easy access to weapons by criminals. are talking about how can we, at a bal- represent one of the most significant sources The Justice Department tells us that the Brady anced approach, which this underlying of weapons used in crimes. A one-year study bill has blocked over 400,000 illegal gun sales bill, H.R. 2122 does, how can we close a by the Illinois State Police, for example, indi- to felons, fugitives, stalkers, and other prohib- loophole in the existing law that does cated that more than a quarter of the illegally ited persons, but no law-abiding citizen has require when one goes to buy a gun trafficked firearms used in crimes had been been stopped from buying a gun for sport or that there is a background check, an sold at gun shows. It seems clear to me that self-protection. June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4585 In spite of these successful measures, the dental shootings and will make it harder for of another State by Federal firearms licens- recent tragedies have made it apparent that children to use firearms in a fit of rage. ees and nonlicensed firearms sellers, and even more needs to be done. We need to conduct background checks on have been involved in subsequent crimes in- In May, the Senate quickly passed some gun show purchasers and we cannot rest on cluding drug offenses, crimes of violence, property crimes, and illegal possession of reasonable gun safety provisions to tighten up the watered down language the NRA sup- firearms by felons and other prohibited per- gun purchases at gun shows, to require safety ports. Gun shows are the easiest way for sons; and locks on guns, and to ban large-capacity am- criminals and children to get guns illegally. (7) Congress has the power, under the munition clips. The House could have also Let's stop the practice now. interstate commerce clause and other provi- acted quickly to pass the same provisions and Legitimate buyers need not worry, so why sions of the Constitution of the United put a bill on the President's desk by Memorial does the NRA oppose this? Who knows? Stop States, to ensure, by enactment of this sec- Day. Instead, the Republican leadership ig- attacking common sense and support the lan- tion, that criminals and other prohibited nored the American people, delayed action, guage taken exactly from the Senate passed persons do not obtain firearms at gun shows, flea markets, and other organized events. and have now chosen to make a mockery of Juvenile Justice bill. a bipartisan legislative process by allowing Finally, we need to raise the legal age to (b) DEFINITIONS.—Section 921(a) of title 18, consideration of numerous amendments that purchase a handgun from 18 to 21. United States Code, is amended by adding at have never been the subject of committee de- These provisions all make sense and are the end the following: liberation. needed now. Stop letting children and crimi- ‘‘(35) The term ‘gun show’ means an event Some believe that the delays since Memo- nals get guns. Pass these provisions. I yield which is sponsored to foster the collecting, rial Day have been orchestrated to give the back the balance of my time. competitive use, sporting use, or any other National Rifle Association time to mobilize The CHAIRMAN. All time for general legal use of firearms, and— ‘‘(A) at which 50 or more firearms are of- their membership to weaken the safety meas- debate has expired. ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN fered or exhibited for sale, transfer, or ex- ures passed by the Senate and ultimately kill change, if 1 or more of the firearms has been them. Our actions today will demonstrate The CHAIRMAN. While the Chair earlier entertained a unanimous con- shipped or transported in, or the event other- whether that charge has any validity. wise affects, interstate or foreign commerce; I support the McCarthy amendment which sent request to extend general debate and will strengthen the provisions in the bill affect- by an additional 10 minutes, the prece- ‘‘(B) at which there are not less than 10 ing gun show transactions and close the loop- dents indicate that the Committee of firearm vendors. hole that permits our children to obtain guns in the Whole may not change an order of ‘‘(36) The term ‘gun show organizer’ means this unregulated manner. the House regarding general debate any person who organizes or conducts a gun I support the amendment to ban the impor- (where the House sets a time not to be show. exceeded) even by unanimous consent. tation of large capacity ammunition feeding ‘‘(37) The term ‘gun show vendor’ means Thus, the Chair would not expect the devices. any person who, at a fixed, assigned, or con- I also support the amendment that will re- House precedents to be changed in this tracted location, exhibits, sells, offers for quire secure gun storage or safety devices for regard. sale, transfers, or exchanges 1 or more fire- Pursuant to the rule, the bill is con- handguns. arms at a gun show.’’. These are common-sense provisions that sidered read for amendment under the 5-minute rule. (c) REGULATION OF FIREARMS TRANSFERS AT add an additional margin of safety for the mil- GUN SHOWS.— The text of H.R. 2122 is as follows: lions of guns that are in circulation in the (1) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of such title is H.R. 2122 United States. Perhaps it is not all we should amended by adding at the end the following: be doing to cut down on the gun violence that Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America ‘‘§ 931. Regulation of firearms transfers at claims so many Americans each year. in Congress assembled, gun shows But it is a start, and it represents progress SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. ‘‘(a)(1) A person who is not a licensed im- on these important issues. This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Mandatory porter, licensed manufacturer, or licensed I urge my colleagues to support these rea- Gun Show Background Check Act’’. dealer, and who desires to be registered as an sonable efforts to keep our kids safe in school SEC. 2. MANDATORY BACKGROUND CHECKS AT instant check registrant shall submit to the GUN SHOWS. and to keep guns out of the hands of crimi- Secretary an application which— (a) FINDINGS.—Congress finds that— nals. ‘‘(A) contains a certification by the appli- Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of Texas. (1) more than 4,400 traditional gun shows are held annually across the United States, cant that the applicant meets the require- Mr. Chairman, I rise today in support of the attracting thousands of attendees per show ments of subparagraphs (A) through (D) of provisions in this bill proposed by several of and hundreds of Federal firearms licensees section 923(d)(1); and my Democratic colleagues dealing with gun and nonlicensed firearms sellers, the vast ‘‘(B) contains a photograph and finger- safety, especially the McCarthy amendment. majority of whom are law-abiding individ- prints of the applicant; and These provisions are commonsense solutions uals with no desire to participate in criminal ‘‘(C) is in such form as the Secretary shall by regulation prescribe. that will get guns out of the wrong hands. transactions; Children are too easily able to get guns, ei- (2) traditional gun shows, as well as flea ‘‘(2)(A) The Secretary shall approve an ap- ther from gun shows or from their own homes. markets and other organized events, at plication submitted pursuant to paragraph which a large number of firearms are offered Convicted felons and people with outstanding (1) which meets the requirements of para- for sale by Federal firearms licensees and graph (1). On approval of the application and warrants can walk into any gun show and walk nonlicensed firearms sellers, form a signifi- payment by the applicant of a fee of $100 for stall to stall until they find a dealer willing to cant part of the national firearms market; 3 years, and upon renewal of valid registra- sell them a gun with no questions asked. (3) firearms and ammunition that are ex- tion a fee of $50 for 3 years, the Secretary These problems are too severe to be ignored. hibited or offered for sale or exchange at gun shall issue to the applicant an instant check This is not gun control, this is gun safety. shows, flea markets, and other organized registration, and advise the Attorney Gen- We are not trying to control guns, we are try- events move easily in and substantially af- eral of the United States of the same, which ing to control the environment of rising youth fect interstate commerce; entitles the registrant to contact the na- violence. I come from Texas, and I can tell (4) gun shows, flea markets, and other or- tional instant criminal background check ganized events at which firearms are exhib- you that people in Texas raise a big ruckus system established under section 103 of the ited or offered for sale or exchange, provide Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act for whenever they think that we in Washington a convenient and centralized commercial lo- are trying to take their guns away. information about any individual desiring to cation at which firearms may be bought and obtain a firearm at a gun show from any I am not worried about responsible adults sold, often without background checks and transferor who has requested the assistance who have guns legally and use them wisely. I without records that enable gun tracing; of the registrant in complying with sub- (5) at gun shows, flea markets, and other am worried about their children, who do not section (c) with respect to the transfer of the organized events at which guns are exhibited have the capacity to make responsible choices firearm, and receive information from the or offered for sale or exchange, criminals and about firearms, getting their hands on guns. system regarding the individual, during the other prohibited persons can obtain guns 3-year period that begins with the date the Selling a trigger lock with every new weapon without background checks and can use such registration is issued. makes weapons safer for children. guns that cannot be traced to later commit This does not mean that parents can abdi- crimes; ‘‘(B) The Secretary shall approve or deny cate their responsibility when they purchase (6) firearms associated with gun shows an application submitted pursuant to para- guns. But, trigger locks will cut down on acci- have been transferred illegally to residents graph (1) within 60 days after the Secretary H4586 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 receives the application. If the Secretary ‘‘(2) before commencement of the gun ‘‘(II) State and local law would have per- fails to so act within such period, the appli- show, records and verifies the identity of mitted the licensee or registrant to imme- cant may bring an action under section 1361 each individual who is to be a gun show ven- diately deliver the firearm to the prospective of title 28 to compel the Secretary to so act. dor at the gun show by examining, but not transferee if the conditions described in item ‘‘(3) An instant check registrant shall keep retaining a copy of, a valid identification (aa) or (bb) had occurred during the gun all records or documents which the reg- document (as defined in section 1028(d)(1)) of show. istrant collects pursuant to this section dur- the individual containing a photograph of ‘‘(iii)(I) The licensee may personally de- ing a gun show at a premises, or a portion the individual; and liver the firearm to the prospective trans- thereof designated by the registrant, that is ‘‘(3) maintains a copy of the records de- feree at a location other than the business open for inspection by the Secretary. The scribed in paragraph (2) at the permanent premises of the licensee, without regard to Secretary shall establish by regulation the place of business of the gun show organizer whether the location is in the State specified procedure for the inspection, at a premises for such period of time and in such form as on the license of the licensee, or may ship or a gun show, of the records required to be the Secretary shall require by regulation. the firearm by common carrier to the pro- kept under this section in a manner for a ‘‘(c)(1) If, at a gun show or the curtilage spective transferee. registrant that is identical to the same pro- area of a gun show, a person who is not li- ‘‘(II) The registrant may personally deliver cedural rights and protections specified for a censed under section 923 makes an offer to the firearm to a prospective transferee who licensee under subsections (g)(1)(A), (g)(1)(B), another person who is not licensed under sec- is a resident of the State of which the reg- and (j) of section 923. An instant check reg- tion 923 to sell, transfer, or exchange a fire- istrant is a resident, or may ship the firearm istrant shall remit to the Secretary all arm that is accessible to the person at the by common carrier to such a prospective records required to be kept by the registrant gun show or in the curtilage area of the gun transferee. under this subsection when the registration show, and such other person, at the gun show ‘‘(3) An instant check registrant who is no longer valid, has expired, or has been or the curtilage area of the gun show, indi- agrees to assist a person who is not licensed revoked. cates a willingness to accept the offer, it under section 923 in complying with sub- ‘‘(4)(A) This subsection shall not be shall be unlawful for the person to subse- section (c) with respect to the transfer of a construed— quently transfer the firearm to such other firearm shall— ‘‘(i) as creating a cause of action against person, unless— ‘‘(A) enter the name, age, address, and any instant check registrant or any other ‘‘(A) the firearm is transferred through a other identifying information on the trans- person, including the transferor, for any civil licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or feree (or, if the transferee is a corporation or liability; or licensed dealer in accordance with paragraph other business entity, the identity and prin- ‘‘(ii) as establishing any standard of care. (2)(B) and otherwise in accordance with law; cipal and local places of business of the ‘‘(B) Notwithstanding any other provision or transferee) as the Secretary may require by of law, except to give effect to subparagraph ‘‘(B)(i) before the completion of the trans- regulation into a separate bound record; (C), evidence regarding the use or nonuse by fer, an instant check registrant contacts the ‘‘(B) record the unique identification num- a transferor of the services of an instant national instant criminal background check ber provided by the system on a form speci- check registrant under this section shall not system established under section 103 of the fied by the Secretary; be admissible as evidence in any proceeding Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act; ‘‘(C) on completion of the functions re- of any court, agency, board, or other entity ‘‘(ii)(I) the system provides the registrant quired by paragraph (1)(B) to be performed for the purposes of establishing liability with a unique identification number; or by the registrant with respect to the trans- based on a civil action brought on any the- ‘‘(II) 72 hours have elapsed since the reg- fer, notify the transferor that the registrant ory for harm caused by a product or by neg- istrant contacted the system, and the sys- has performed such functions; and ligence. tem has not notified the registrant that the ‘‘(D) on completion of the background ‘‘(C)(i) Notwithstanding any other provi- receipt of a firearm by such other person check by the system, retain a record of the sion of law, a person who is— would violate subsection (g) or (n) of section background check as part of the permanent ‘‘(I) an instant check registrant who as- 922; and business records of the registrant. sists in having a background check per- ‘‘(iii) the registrant notifies the person ‘‘(4) This section shall not be construed to formed in accordance with this section; that the registrant has complied with permit or authorize the Secretary to impose ‘‘(II) a licensee who acquires a firearm at a clauses (i) and (ii), or of any receipt by the recordkeeping requirements on any vendor gun show from a nonlicensee, for transfer to registrant of a notification from the national who is not licensed under section 923. another nonlicensee in attendance at the instant criminal background check system ‘‘(d) If, at a gun show or the curtilage area show, for the purpose of effectuating a sale, established under section 103 of the Brady of a gun show, a person who is not licensed trade, or transfer between the 2 nonlicensees, Handgun Violence Prevention Act that the under section 923 makes an offer to another all in the manner prescribed for the acquisi- transfer would violate section 922 or State person who is not licensed under section 923 tion and disposition of firearms under this law; and to sell, transfer, or exchange a firearm that chapter; or ‘‘(iv) the transferor and the registrant have is accessible to the person at the gun show or ‘‘(III) a nonlicensee disposing of a firearm, verified the identity of the transferee by ex- in the curtilage area of the gun show, and who utilizes the services of an instant check amining a valid identification document (as such other person, at the gun show or the registrant pursuant to subclause (I) or a li- defined in section 1028(d)(1) of this title) of curtilage area of the gun show, indicates a censee pursuant to subclause (II), the transferee containing a photograph of willingness to accept the offer, it shall be un- shall be entitled to immunity from a civil li- the transferee. lawful for such other person to receive the ability action as described in this subpara- ‘‘(2)(A) The rules of paragraphs (2), (3), and firearm from the person if the recipient graph. (4) of section 922(t) shall apply to firearms knows that the firearm has been transferred ‘‘(ii) A qualified civil liability action may transfers assisted by instant check reg- to the recipient in violation of this section.’’. not be brought in any Federal or State istrants under this section in the same man- (2) PENALTIES.—Section 924(a) of such title court. The term ‘qualified civil liability ac- ner in which such rules apply to firearms is amended by adding at the end the fol- tion’ means a civil action brought by any transfers made by licensees. lowing: person against a person described in clause ‘‘(B)(i) For purposes of section ‘‘(7)(A) Whoever knowingly violates sub- (i) for damages resulting from the criminal 922(t)(1)(B)(ii), the time period that shall section (b), (c)(1), or (c)(2) of section 931 shall or unlawful misuse of the firearm by the apply to the transfer of a firearm as de- be— transferee or a third party, but shall not in- scribed in paragraph (1) of this subsection ‘‘(i) fined under this title, imprisoned not clude an action— shall be 72 hours. more than 1 year, or both; or ‘‘(I) brought against a transferor convicted ‘‘(ii) The licensee or registrant may per- ‘‘(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent under section 924(h), or a comparable or iden- sonally deliver or ship the firearm to the conviction of such a violation, fined under tical State felony law, by a party directly prospective transferee in accordance with this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, harmed by the transferee’s criminal conduct, clause (iii) if the gun show has terminated, or both. as defined in section 924(h); or and— ‘‘(B) Whoever knowingly violates sub- ‘‘(II) brought against a transferor for neg- ‘‘(I)(aa) 72 consecutive hours has elapsed section (c)(3) or (d) of section 931 shall be ligent entrustment or negligence per se. since the licensee or registrant contacted the fined under this title, imprisoned not more ‘‘(4) A registration issued under this sub- system from the gun show and the licensee than 3 years, or both. section may be revoked pursuant to the pro- or registrant has not received notification ‘‘(C) In addition to any other penalties im- cedures provided for license revocations from the system that receipt of a firearm by posed under this paragraph, the Secretary under section 923. the prospective transferee would violate sub- may, with respect to any person who know- ‘‘(b) It shall be unlawful for any person to section (g) or (n) of section 922 or State law; ingly violates subsection (b), (c), or (d) of organize or conduct a gun show unless the or section 931— person— ‘‘(bb) the licensee or registrant has re- ‘‘(i) impose a civil fine in an amount equal ‘‘(1) registers with the Secretary in accord- ceived notification from the system that re- to not more than $2,500; and ance with regulations promulgated by the ceipt of a firearm by the prospective trans- ‘‘(ii) if the person is registered pursuant to Secretary, which shall not require the pay- feree would not violate subsection (g) or (n) section 931(a), after notice and opportunity ment of any fee for such registration; of section 922 or State law; and for a hearing, suspend for not more than 6 June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4587 months or revoke the registration of that ficer or employee acting on behalf of the The CHAIRMAN. No amendment is in person under section 931(a).’’. United States, may charge or collect any fee order except those printed in part B of (3) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—Section 923(j) in connection with any background check re- House Report 106–186. Each amendment of such title is amended in the first sentence quired in connection with the transfer of a may be offered only in the order print- by striking ‘‘or event’’ and all that follows firearm (as defined in section 921(a)(3) of through ‘‘community’’. title 18).’’. ed in part B of the report, may be of- (4) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The section (2) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMEND- fered only by a Member designated in analysis for chapter 44 of such title is MENTS.—The section analysis for chapter 33 the report, shall be considered read, de- amended by adding at the end the following: of title 28, United States Code, is amended by batable for the time specified in the re- ‘‘931. Regulation of firearms transfers at gun inserting after the item relating to section port, equally divided and controlled by shows.’’. 540A the following: the proponent and an opponent, shall ‘‘540B. Ban against fee for background check (d) INSPECTION AUTHORITY.—Section not be subject to amendment and shall 923(g)(1) of such title is amended by adding in connection with firearm not be subject to a demand for a divi- at the end the following: transfer.’’. sion of the question. (b) PROTECTION OF GUN OWNER PRIVACY AND ‘‘(E) The Secretary may enter during busi- The Chairman of the Committee of OWNERSHIP RIGHTS.— ness hours the place of business of any gun (1) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of title 18, the Whole may postpone a request for a show organizer and any place where a gun United States Code, is amended by adding at recorded vote on any amendment and show is held, without such reasonable cause the end the following: may reduce to a minimum of 5 minutes or warrant, for the purpose of inspecting or the time for voting on any postponed examining the records required by section ‘‘§ 932. Gun owner privacy and ownership 923 or 931 and the inventory of licensees con- rights question that immediately follows an- ducting business at the gun show in the ‘‘Notwithstanding any other provision of other vote, provided that the time for course of a reasonable inquiry during the law, no department, agency, or instrumen- voting on the first question shall be a course of a criminal investigation of a person tality of the United States or officer, em- minimum of 15 minutes. or persons other than the organizer or li- ployee, or agent of the United States, includ- It is now in order to consider amend- censee or when such examination may be re- ing a State or local officer or employee act- ment No. 1 printed in part B of House quired for determining the disposition of one ing on behalf of the United States— Report 106–186. or more particular firearms in the course of ‘‘(1) shall perform any national instant criminal background check on any person AMENDMENT NO. 1 OFFERED BY MR. DINGELL a bona fide criminal investigation.’’. Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I offer (e) INCREASED PENALTIES FOR SERIOUS REC- through the system established pursuant to an amendment. ORDKEEPING VIOLATIONS BY LICENSEES.—Sec- section 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence tion 924(a)(3) of such title is amended to read Prevention Act (18 U.S.C. 922 note) (referred The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- as follows: to in this section as the ‘‘system’’) if that ignate the amendment. ‘‘(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph system does not require and result in the im- The text of the amendment is as fol- (B), any licensed dealer, licensed importer, mediate destruction of all information, in lows: licensed manufacturer, or licensed collector any form whatsoever or through any me- Part B amendment No. 1 printed in House who knowingly makes any false statement dium, about such person who is determined, Report 106–186 offered by Mr. DINGELL: or representation with respect to the infor- through the use of the system, not to be pro- In section 931(c)(1) of title 18, United mation required by this chapter to be kept in hibited by subsection (g) or (h) of section 922 States Code, as proposed to be added by sec- the records of a person licensed under this of title 18, United States Code, or by State tion 2(c)(1) of the bill, strike ‘‘indicates a chapter, or violates section 922(m) shall be law, from receiving a firearm, except that willingness to accept’’ and insert ‘‘accepts’’. fined under this title, imprisoned not more this subsection shall not apply to the reten- In section 931(c)(1)(B)(ii)(II) of title 18, than 1 year, or both. tion or transfer of information relating to— United States Code, as proposed to be added ‘‘(B) If the violation described in subpara- ‘‘(A) any unique identification number pro- by section 2(c)(1) of the bill, strike ‘‘72’’ and graph (A) is in relation to an offense— vided by the national instant criminal back- insert ‘‘24’’. ‘‘(i) under paragraph (1) or (3) of section ground check system pursuant to section In section 931(c)(2) of title 18, United 922(b), such person shall be fined under this 922(t)(1)(B)(i) of title 18, United States Code; States Code, as proposed to be added by sec- title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or or tion 2(c)(1) of the bill, strike subparagraph both; or ‘‘(B) the date on which that number is pro- (B) and insert the following: ‘‘(ii) under subsection (a)(6) or (d) of sec- vided; or ‘‘(B) For any instant background check tion 922, such person shall be fined under this ‘‘(2) shall continue to operate the system conducted at a gun show, the time period title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or (including requiring a background check be- stated in section 922(t)(1)(B)(ii) shall be 24 both.’’. fore the transfer of a firearm) unless— consecutive hours since the licensee con- (f) INCREASED PENALTIES FOR VIOLATIONS ‘‘(A) the ‘NICS Index’ complies with the re- tacted the sytem, and notwithstanding any OF CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK REQUIRE- quirements of section 552a(e)(5) of title 5, other provision of this chapter, the system MENTS.— United States Code; and shall, in every instance of a request for an (1) PENALTIES.—Section 924(a) of such title ‘‘(B) the agency responsible for the system instant background check from a gun show, is amended— and the system’s compliance with Federal complete such check over instant checks not (A) in paragraph (5), by striking ‘‘sub- law does not invoke the exceptions under originating from a gun show. section (s) or (t) of section 922’’ and inserting subsections (j)(2), (k)(2), and (k)(3) of section In section 931(d) of title 18, United States ‘‘section 922(s)’’; and 552a of title 5, United States Code, except if Code, as proposed to be added by section (B) by adding at the end the following: specifically identifiable information is com- 2(c)(1) of the bill, strike ‘‘indicates a willing- ‘‘(8)(A) Whoever knowingly violates sec- piled for a particular law enforcement inves- ness to accept’’ and insert ‘‘accepts’’. At the end of section 3 of the bill, insert tion 922(t) shall be fined under this title, im- tigation or specific criminal enforcement the following: prisoned not more than 3 years, or both. matter.’’. (c) DELIVERIES TO AVOID THEFT.—Section (2) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMEND- ‘‘(B) In the case of a second or subsequent 922(a)(5) of title 18, United States Code, is MENTS.—The section analysis for chapter 44 conviction under this paragraph, the person amended— of title 18, United States Code, is further shall be fined under this title, imprisoned (1) by striking ‘‘and (B)’’ and inserting amended by adding at the end the following: not more than 5 years, or both.’’. ‘‘(B)’’; and (2) ELIMINATION OF CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF ‘‘932. Gun owner privacy and ownership (2) by inserting ‘‘, and (C) firearms trans- OFFENSE.—Section 922(t)(5) of such title is rights.’’. fers and business away from their business amended by striking ‘‘and, at the time’’ and (c) CIVIL REMEDIES.—Any person aggrieved premises with another licensee without re- all that follows through ‘‘State law’’. by a violation of section 540B of title 28, or gard to whether the business is conducted in (g) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments 931 of title 18, United States Code, as added the State specified on the license of either li- made by this section shall take effect 180 by this section, may bring an action in the censee’’ before the semicolon at the end. days after the date of enactment of this Act. district court of the United States for the (d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments SEC. 3. INSTANT CHECK GUN TAX AND GUN district in which the person resides. Any per- made by this section shall take effect 180 OWNER PRIVACY. son who is successful with respect to any days after the date of the enactment of this (a) PROHIBITION ON GUN TAX.— such action shall receive actual damages, pu- Act. (1) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 33 of title 28, nitive damages, and such other remedies as After section 3 of the bill, insert the fol- United States Code, is amended by adding at the court may determine to be appropriate, lowing: the end the following: including a reasonable attorney’s fee. SEC. ll. PENALTIES FOR USING A LARGE CA- (d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments ‘‘§ 540B. Ban against fee for background PACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DE- made by this section shall take effect on the check in connection with firearm transfer VICE DURING A CRIME OF VIOLENCE date of enactment of this Act, except that OR A DRUG TRAFFICKING CRIME. ‘‘No officer, employee, or agent of the the amendments made by subsection (a) (a) IN GENERAL.—Section 924(c) of title 18, United States, including a State or local of- shall take effect as of October 1, 1998. United States Code, is amended— H4588 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 (1) in paragraph (1)(B)(i), by inserting Mr. Chairman, I rise with all due re- guns. It is not about keeping the law abiding ‘‘large capacity ammunition feeding device,’’ spect in opposition to the Dingell from buying guns. after ‘‘short-barreled rifle,’’; and amendment. In my opinion, it does ab- First, the Dingell amendment so loosely de- (2) by adding at the end the following: ‘‘(5) For purposes of this subsection, the solutely nothing to close the gun show fines what a gun show is that it will allow thou- term ‘large capacity ammunition feeding de- loophole. In fact, it obviously makes it sands of guns to be sold at gun shows without vice’ means a device as defined in section easier for criminals to bypass the law a single background check. 921(a)(31) regardless of the date it was manu- and get a gun. Second, the 24-hour waiting period will de- factured.’’. This issue is about law and order and stroy the current federal law that allows law (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments keeping criminals from getting guns. It enforcement officials up to three-business made by this section shall take effect 180 is not about keeping law-abiding citi- days to conduct a background check. The Din- days after the date of the enactment of this zens from buying guns. So let us be gell amendment is a ruse . . . a sham . . . Act. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House clear about that. how can it be offered with a straight face? Resolution 209, the gentleman from But first I must say that the amend- Since 1993, the background checks estab- ment of the gentleman from Michigan Michigan (Mr. DINGELL) and a Member lished by the Brady law have blocked gun opposed each will control 20 minutes. (Mr. DINGELL) so loosely defines what a sales to 400,000 felons, fugitives, stalkers and Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I ask gun show is that it is obvious that mentally ill persons. unanimous consent that I be permitted thousands of guns will be sold at shows The FBI estimates that under a 24-hour to yield 10 minutes of the 20 minutes I without a single background check. rule, over 17,000 people who were stopped by have under the rule to the gentleman The 24-hour waiting period will de- the current background check system from from Tennessee (Mr. BRYANT) and that stroy current Federal law that allows getting guns in the last six months would have he be permitted to yield time. law enforcement officials up to 3 busi- gotten guns! These are people with criminal The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection ness days. The Dingell amendment is a records, or questionable legal residence for to the request of the gentleman from rouse, plain and simple. The FBI itself maybe a mental patient. Michigan? estimates that under the 24-hour rule, Most gun shows take place on the week- There was no objection. over 17,000 people who were stopped by ends. Under a 24-hour rule, a criminal who The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman the current background check system tried to buy a gun on Saturday would have a from Tennessee (Mr. BRYANT) will con- from getting guns in only the last 6 free pass if court records were required to fin- trol 10 minutes. months would have gotten those guns. ish the check, because the 24 hours would ex- Does the gentleman from Michigan These people would be those with pire before the courts re-opened on Monday. (Mr. CONYERS) seek to control the time criminal records, questionable legal LETS BE HONESTÐWE ALL KNOW in opposition to the amendment? residence, or maybe even mental pa- For checks occurring on a Saturday, the Mr. CONYERS. I do, Mr. Chairman. tients. Dingell 24-hour rule would mean that more The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Let us be honest and straightforward, than halfÐ60%Ðof current denials would not from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) will be for checks occurring on a Saturday, have been made. That means a convicted recognized for 20 minutes. the Dingell 24-hour rule would mean rapist, child molester, or any other felon could Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I ask that more than half, more than 60 per- get a gun. unanimous consent that the gentle- cent of current denials would not have THIS IS ABOUT LAW AND ORDER woman from New Jersey (Mrs. ROU- been made. That means a convicted We need to maintain the current law 3-busi- KEMA) be yielded 10 minutes to yield rapist, child molester, or any other ness days background check. We need to time en bloc as she may choose. felon could have gotten a gun. give law enforcement officers the upper-hand The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Now, I want to stress this for all who to the request of the gentleman from not the criminals. will please listen. We would love to Let's be perfectly clear . . . closing the gun Michigan? talk about law and order. This is about There was no objection. show loophole is about stopping guns selling law and order. Let us be perfectly and gun running to criminals not the Second The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman clear. Closing the gun show loophole is from New Jersey (Mrs. ROUKEMA) will Amendment! about stopping gun selling and gun Criminals have increasinglyÐwe are toldÐ control 10 minutes of time. running by criminals. It is not about The Chair recognizes the gentleman go to gun shows where no background checks the Second Amendment. Every law en- from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL). are required to purchase a weapon. Look who Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I yield forcement person in the world of any has been hanging out at gun shows? myself 30 seconds. reliability will tell us that 24 hours Oklahoma City bombers Timothy McVeigh Mr. Chairman, I would hope that the does not do it. and Terry Nichols sold over $60,000 in stolen debate on this will be conducted with- Let us also talk for a minute about weapons at gun shows to finance the killing of out rancor, without charges of wrong- whose been hanging out at gun shows. 168 innocent men, women, and children. doing or misbehavior against any Mem- Oklahoma City bombers Timothy Columbine High School attacker Eric Harris ber of this body or also against citizens McVeigh and Terry Nichols sold well obtained his Tec±9 through a gun show. who might have different feelings. over $60,000 in stolen weapons at gun It is imperative that we simply apply current I would observe that the amendment shows to finance their killings. Col- federal law to gun shows not the sham Dingell does several things. It, first of all, de- umbine High School, Eric Harris, stu- amendment that would let criminals walk in fines what constitutes a sale at a gun dent, obtained his Tec-9 through a gun and out of gun shows with new weapons with- show in a manner consistent with ex- show. out a single background check. isting contract law. I could go on. But I must say that it It is in the best interest of public safety and Second of all, it directs the FBI to is perfectly clear, anybody with a de- law and order that we vote against the Dingell prioritize background checks at gun gree of common sense or honesty about amendment. shows and to complete them within 24 24 hours over a weekend, nonbusiness The International Association of Chiefs of hours. day, clearly makes it a sham and a Police. Third, it deters the theft of firearms rouse and we must defeat the Dingell The International Brotherhood of Police Offi- that are shipped through the mail by amendment and approve the McCarthy- cers. making it possible for dealers to deal Roukema amendment that will be de- Police Foundation. at gun shows face to face. bated next. National Association of Black Law Enforce- Last, it increases the penalty for Mr. Chairman, let's make no mistake about ment Officers. those who use guns with a large-capac- it there is only one amendment that closes the And the Police Executives Research Forum. ity magazine in the commission of gun show loophole for criminals and that is the All oppose Dingell and support McCarthy- crimes. McCarthy-Roukema amendment. Roukema. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance The Dingell amendment does nothing to Mr. Chairman, background checks work. of my time. close the gun show loophole and in fact The gun show loophole must be closed. The Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Chairman, I makes it easier for criminals to by-pass the only way to do that is to defeat the Dingell yield myself such time as I may con- law and get a gun! This is about law and amendment and approve the McCarthy-Rou- sume. orderÐand keeping criminals from getting kema amendment that will be debated next. June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4589 Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance body who does not know that 24 hours dividuals who may have a felony ar- of my time. is not sufficient? Is there anyone that rest. The next step is to check local b 2245 does not know that gun shows take court records to determine if that per- place frequently on weekends and that son has a criminal conviction. That Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, I yield a 24-hour rule will get them off? It re- check may take 2 or 3 days. That is a myself 2 minutes. quires a check only when a gun is of- short time to wait to help ensure that I rise in strong support of the Dingell fered for sale and the buyer accepts the a violent felon does not walk away amendment. I believe this amendment offer near a gun show. This tells the from a gun show with a lethal weapon. is a good example of the two parties criminal to window shop at gun shows The Dingell amendment will not ac- working together. and then to close the deal somewhere complish any of those goals. It does not I do want it to be clear, though, that else. Does anyone not really under- adequately define a gun show. It will I do not generally support more Fed- stand what is going on here? not allow adequate background checks eral gun laws. Our country has at this Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I yield at gun shows. It will do little to close time thousands of gun laws on the 1 1 ⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from the gaping loophole in current laws books and my concern is they are not Minnesota (Mr. OBERSTAR). that give criminals the incentive to being adequately enforced. We need (Mr. OBERSTAR asked and was given purchase guns at gun shows. stronger enforcement of existing gun permission to revise and extend his re- We need reasonable and effective laws. marks.) background checks to keep guns out of In order to prevent felons from pur- Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, I rise the hands of criminals. The Dingell chasing firearms, I ask my colleagues in defense of the hunter-sportsman- amendment comes up short. Oppose the to support the Dingell amendment. working men and women of my district Dingell amendment and support the This amendment will not further bur- whose voices I want to be heard, voices McCarthy-Roukema amendment. den law-abiding gun owners, but this of responsible firearms owners. amendment will maintain the integrity Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, I yield Your constituents at the Iron Range Labor 3 minutes to the gentleman from Geor- of the gun show while establishing Assembly urge you to oppose restrictions on gia (Mr. BARR). safeguards to protect our communities gun sales and ownership rights as passed by and gun owners. the Senate. Many union families enjoy out- Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, Others will talk of the 24-hour in- door sports and the right to possess firearms. I thank the gentleman for yielding me stant check period. I want to talk We are concerned about the safety in our this time, and I rise in strong support about other protections of this amend- schools, but the proposed legislation will not of this bipartisan amendment to enact solve this problem. Tom Pender, President. ment. This amendment will also help reasonable, fair, common-sense back- prevent the theft of firearms. Under Jim, I’m a hunter and a fisherman all my ground checks that truly fit the defini- life. It provides me a connection with my tion, within reason, of an instant back- current law, licensed dealers cannot boys, my brother, and my dad. It is one of transfer guns among themselves while ground check at gun shows. the few occasions we get together for quality The McCarthy-Lautenberg amend- attending a gun show. As a result, they time. But in recent years there is a con- must ship the guns through a common certed effort to condemn those of us who ment is Washington at its best, Mr. carrier. Many of the illegal guns used hunt and enjoy other legitimate uses of Chairman, for only in Washington in the commission of crimes are stolen guns. There are those who would make gun would an instant background check during this process of shipment. The use a vice and brand those of us who own mean up to 6 days. Only in Washington Dingell amendment will allow a li- guns as crazy or extremists. I want real would an instant background check op- study and real action to prevent future censed dealer to transfer guns to an- erate to deny people their constitu- Littletons, not contrived knee-jerk reaction tional rights and up to 6 days. other licensed dealer, thus preventing from Congress. Leo LaLonde, Aurora, Min- criminals the opportunity of stealing nesota. For those who might have trouble them from a common carrier. If we Real action is at Lincoln Park Elementary with the math, and we will not hear it want to keep guns off the street, then School in Duluth. Open from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m., from McCarthy-Lautenberg, let me ex- here is one example where we can sup- where parents, teachers, students, commu- plain. If we allow an instant or so- port a provision that will. nity groups work together at muffin morn- called instant background check to Another important provision of the ing homework planning, ’success for all,’ consume 3 business days, that is 3 days first grade preparedness, youth collabo- Dingell amendment would be that it plus, if, as many gun shows do take rative, family nights for parent and child, place on holiday weekends, that is an would increase the penalty for the use family building programs. Juvenile delin- of a large capacity ammunition maga- quency has been virtually eliminated and additional 3 days. For all intents and zine during the commission of a violent school performance elevated. purposes, that means that a purchaser, crime or drug trafficking. This strong That is getting real. Let us pass the a bona fide purchaser, will not be able provision provides an additional tool Dingell amendment. to take, very possibly, if the instant for prosecutors in combating violent Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Chairman, I background check does not work prop- erly, which in many instances it does crime and drug trafficking. yield 11⁄2 minutes to the gentleman I applaud the efforts of the gen- from Delaware (Mr. CASTLE). not, would not be able to take advan- tleman from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL) Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, I thank tage of exercising their second amend- and his colleagues. This is a balanced the gentlewoman for yielding me this ment rights at that gun show. approach that all Members who sup- time. Only in Washington does an instant port getting tough on criminals can Our purpose tonight is not to restrict background check under the McCarthy- also support. any law-abiding citizen’s right to keep Lautenberg amendment mean up to 6 Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance and bear arms. Our purpose tonight is days. of my time. to make laws requiring background A vote for this bipartisan Dingell Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield checks for purchasing firearms to keep amendment not only brings common- myself 1 minute. firearms out of the hands of criminals sense, rationality and fairness to this I am not able to answer why the gen- and unsupervised young people. debate, but it also is not a vote for gun tleman from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL) is There is absolutely no reason that control. Let me repeat. A vote for the doing this. I have been asked that quite purchases at gun shows should be bipartisan Dingell amendment is not a a bit. treated differently than purchases at a vote for gun control. It is a vote to pre- This is a weaker amendment on gun store. There should be a background serve gun shows as legitimate business shows than the McCollum amendment. check. This background check should enterprises in this country. And here is the bottom line. If this allow adequate time to ensure that If McCarthy and Lautenberg is adopt- amendment is passed, then criminals someone with a felony conviction is ed, it will put gun shows out of busi- will be able to get guns at gun shows. not permitted to purchase a gun. ness. It will do this in many different That is where this all comes out. As the gentleman from Florida (Mr. ways, including the expanded so-called Is there anybody that has not read MCCOLLUM) pointed out, the National instant background check, which about this amendment? Is there any- Instant Check System reveals those in- would consume so many days that it H4590 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 would make it unreasonable for any- Mr. STENHOLM. Mr. Chairman, I the legitimate hunters and sports folks body to bother purchasing a firearm at rise in strong support of the Dingell of the world that can acquire and buy a gun show. amendment, a common-sense com- these firearms, not the crooks, not the It does so because it would, for the promise that represents the views of criminals. We need to close the loop- first time in American history, even the overwhelming majority of law- holes to make sure that the back- against several Federal laws that pro- abiding gun owners who accept reason- ground checks work. vide to the contrary, allow the govern- able reforms and who want to keep When the President, whether he be ment to begin maintaining a registry firearms out of the hands of criminals Republican or Democrat, or maybe of lawful gun owners. It would put gun and who recognize the best way to do even Independent, tells us that they shows out of business because it would this is to conduct background checks have the resources so that they can do create very nearly strict civil liability and the best way to do that is to use it in 1 day or 1 hour or 5 minutes, we for gun show operators and promoters. the existing system. can change the law. But until then, we It is overly broad, the McCarthy-Lau- Contrary to what some folks would cannot. tenberg amendment. Dingell corrects it have us believe, gun shows are not ille- Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, I yield and is a vote for reasonable and mean- gal arms bazaars. They are commercial 2 minutes to my distinguished col- ingful instant background checks at forums where citizens can buy and sell league, the gentleman from California gun shows and I urge its adoption. firearms for hunting, to add to a collec- (Mr. CUNNINGHAM). Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield tion of antiques, for self-protection or (Mr. CUNNINGHAM asked and was 2 minutes to the gentleman from Texas any of a litany of lawful purposes. This given permission to revise and extend (Mr. EDWARDS). amendment streamlines the instant his remarks.) Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. Chairman, I live Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, check process for firearm transfers at in rural central Texas where guns are a Members on both sides of this issue are gun shows. The speed and ease of the way of life. I am a hunter and a gun well-meaning. There are 11,000 gun laws check under the Dingell amendment owner. But I am also a father and a on the books. There are just as many husband, and tonight I will vote for the will encourage folks to make their pur- about drugs. And yet in both areas, safety of my children and family and chases in a regulated forum. both drugs and weapons, the people for my colleagues’. I will vote for the Some folks who want to ignore the that are the problem are the criminals. McCarthy amendment and for the bi- existence of the second amendment My colleagues on the other side of this partisan Conyers-Campbell amend- seem to think that if we just make it issue want to stop those, as well. ment, which is identical to the Senate- too much of a hassle for citizens to In all due respect to the gentle- passed language. Why? Because I be- purchase guns that the transactions woman from Maryland, there are not lieve that is the right thing to do for will not occur. In reality the sale will thugs and criminals but millions of the safety of our children, our homes, still take place, but without the ben- people that attend these gun shows, in- and our neighborhoods. efit of a background check. cluding myself, that are law-abiding I will vote for effective criminal I urge my colleagues’ support of the citizens. background checks at gun shows that Dingell amendment, a workable com- I think I am the only Member in this minimize felon loopholes. I surely be- promise which achieves the goals of body that has had to take multiple life lieve that a minor inconvenience for a protecting the rights of all citizens with a weapon. It bothered me so bad handful is a very small price to pay for while best protecting society as a that I had to go to church, and at one saving American lives. whole. time I even left the squadron. But I Several years ago, as a new Member Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Chairman, how have flown in an airplane. I have car- of this House from the rural south, I much time do I have remaining? ried bombs in peacetime. I never voted in favor of an assault weapon ban The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman robbed a bank. I never shot somebody. and lived to tell the story. But far from New Jersey (Mrs. ROUKEMA) has I hunt. I fish. I legally have a weap- more important than that, somewhere 51⁄2 minutes remaining; the gentleman on. And my daughters know how to use in America tonight a child is alive, from Tennessee (Mr. BRYANT) has 5 those weapons. I have taken them out alive because Congress 5 years ago had minutes remaining; the gentleman with a watermelon and a shotgun and a the courage to pass a common-sense from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 7 rifle, and they know exactly what that gun safety law. minutes remaining; and the gentleman weapon will do. If somebody comes in Tonight, with the Conyers amend- from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL) has 7 our house when I am not there, my ment, with the McCarthy amendment, minutes remaining. daughters know how to use it. we have another opportunity to save b 2300 But I also have a trigger guard on the lives of more children by passing those weapons because I am afraid that common-sense gun safety legislation. Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Chairman, I some child will come into the house Now, I know and my colleagues know yield 11⁄2 minutes to our colleague, the other than my daughters and not know that some may fear the safety of their gentleman from Michigan (Mr. UPTON). how to use that or the danger of it. And political seats for these votes, but I Mr. UPTON. Mr. Chairman, guns do I think that a responsible parent have greater faith in the American not kill people. People kill people. should have a trigger guard on it and families and parents than that. It is I agree, background checks do work. someone who does not maybe should be time to put the interest of our safe They are common sense. None of us chastised. schools and our children’s safety above want criminals to have guns. But I But the people we are talking about the interest of special interests here in have served under Republican as well are law-abiding citizens, and that is Washington, D.C. as Democratic administrations as a who the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Some suggest punishing gun offend- Member of Congress, and there is not DINGELL) and I and others want to pro- ers is the way to reduce some gun vio- yet an attorney general working for a tect the rights of, law-abiding people lence. But surely if we talk to the par- Republican or a Democratic president that want to bear arms. ents of crime victims, they would tell while I have been here that has told us I do not think that is unreasonable. I us that punishing their offenders is no that they could do this in one day. think it is reasonable to have an in- substitute for effective prevention of They cannot do it in one day. That is stant check for a gun show, to have one their children’s murder through com- why the requirement is for 3 days. In- for a pawn shop, to have one for any mon-sense gun safety laws. stant checks would be ideal, just like sporting goods shop that does that, and Vote for Conyers, vote for McCarthy, going to the clothing store to get a we ought to fully fund it. I think that vote for our children. shirt or a tie. But we do not live in a the only way that we can get around Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I yield perfect world. Sadly, we do not. this is to do that. 1 minute to the gentleman from Texas Legitimate hunters and sports people I ask my colleagues, do not ask from (Mr. STENHOLM). and collectors have nothing to fear emotion but ask from fact. (Mr. STENHOLM asked and was with the defeat of the Dingell amend- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield given permission to revise and extend ment. The Second Amendment still 1 minute to the gentlewoman from New his remarks.) prevails. But let us make sure that it is York (Mrs. McCarthy). June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4591

Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Chairman, I difficult for criminals to buy guns at Chairman, contrary to what the Amer- yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from gun shows. I come from the State of ican people want, Congress is preparing Illinois (Mr. PORTER). Tennessee as my good friend the gen- to vote on an amendment that will Mr. PORTER. Mr. Chairman, I thank tleman from Tennessee (Mr. BRYANt) make it easier for criminals to get the gentlewoman for yielding me the does. I know why we have gun shows. It guns at gun shows. time and for her strong leadership on makes it easier for folks who live in Some Members may believe they can this issue. areas, urban or rural areas to buy guns vote for the NRA-Dingell amendment Mr. Chairman, I want to commend to go out and hunt and be sportsmen. I and try to fool their constituents into the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. support hunters, support the NRA and thinking they care about criminals’ ac- MCCARTHY) for her tireless dedication support sportsmen. cess to guns. That would be a mistake. in preventing violence against children But do not continue scaring every- The McCarthy-Roukema-Blagojevich and protecting all of us from the mis- day, hardworking, taxpaying, law-abid- amendment simply asks the same regu- use of firearms. ing Americans that somehow or an- lations that we are asking our gun With high respect for my friend the other making them wait 48 more hours stores to do our gun shows to do. That gentleman from Michigan (Mr. DIN- just to ensure that they had not beaten is it. Same rules for everyone. Pretty GELL) I rise to oppose his amendment their wives, they had not molested simple in my eyes. and to support McCarthy. their neighbor’s children, that they Over the last 6 months, 17,000 people The Dingell amendment, in my judg- have not robbed a convenience store at who were stopped by the current back- ment, attempts to cloud an issue which the corner, that something is unrea- ground check systems would have at- is crystal clear. The distinguished gen- sonable about that. tained guns. Seventeen thousand peo- tleman from Michigan claims that his I say to my friends and particularly ple. amendment closes the gun show loop- my friend on my side of the aisle, let us Take a look at this. These are the hole. But, in actuality, it weakens cur- stop scaring everyday Americans. people who should have been stopped. rent gun laws. There is nothing unreasonable about These are the people that could have Under his amendment, the time pro- what the gentlewoman from New York been stopped. (Mrs. MCCARTHY) wants to do. She is If the Dingell bill goes through, there vided to law enforcement authorities the most courageous person in this is going to be a lot more of them out for conducting background checks on House and she deserves our vote to- there. That is what we are supposed to firearms purchased at a gun show night, she deserves our vote tomorrow do. through a licensed dealer is actually I ask my colleagues to vote for the reduced from three business days under and the children in this Nation deserve McCarthy amendment, and I ask my current law to 24 hours. our vote this evening. colleagues to vote for the Conyers sub- Since many gun shows take place on Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I yield stitute amendment. weekends when most court records are 1 minute to the distinguished gen- Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I yield inaccessible, a 24-hour limit effectively tleman from Texas (Mr. GREEN). Mr. GREEN of Texas. Mr. Chairman, 11⁄2 minutes to the distinguished gen- renders the background check require- I thank my colleague from Michigan tleman from Louisiana (Mr. JOHN). ment useless. (Mr. JOHN asked and was given per- Additionally, Mr. Chairman, the for yielding me this time. I rise in sup- mission to revise and extend his re- amendment would reverse a 31-year-old port of the Dingell amendment that marks.) law prohibiting licensed dealers from hopefully will bring some reasonable- Mr. JOHN. Mr. Chairman, Louisiana conducting out-of-state business. ness to the debate on gun restrictions. I do not think any of us support crimi- is indeed the sportsman’s paradise. b 2310 Many of us have grown up there hunt- nals having access to guns and the Din- ing, sports shooting, and have grown up McCarthy, on the other hand, reason- gell amendment will not encourage comfortable and have learned to re- ably extends the background checks to this. It would make background checks spect firearms. more vendors, gives law enforcement more effective and still protect the sec- I rise today in strong support of the authorities ample time to complete ond amendment to our Constitution. perfecting Dingell amendment. I be- background checks and extends re- I would feel more comfortable about lieve that it has a common-sense ap- quirements for vendors to keep records this debate tonight if the opponents of proach to two very important objec- of gun show transactions. the Dingell amendment were not also tives. Clearly, gun laws are not a panacea reported in the press favoring national The first objective is to close the for the ills of our society reflected in registration maybe like we have here loopholes at gun shows. It is an objec- the violence of child against child that in Washington, D.C., which is probably tive that every one of the amendments we have seen in Littleton and Paducah the most gun restricted jurisdiction in here tonight go to and shoot at. and Conyers. But, Mr. Chairman, it our country, yet I do not know if the The second objective only the Dingell would be a travesty if out of these hor- criminals in D.C. are any more effec- amendment provides, and I think it is rors came from this House more oppor- tive than they are anywhere else in our most important that it protects and tunity for the misuse of firearms, not country. I know they get guns else- preserves the right for us to bear arms less. It is not too much to ask legiti- where. at gun shows. The amendment puts a mate gun owners and vendors some But are you saying we need to re- high priority on instant background measure of inconvenience to help pro- strict every American from being able checks from participants at a gun tect our children. With rights come re- to own a firearm? Because that is what show. I repeat, this amendment only sponsibilities. Oppose Dingell. Support happens here. The waiting periods have applies to gun shows. McCarthy. stopped convicted felons from receiving I support instant background checks Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield guns. I know, that has worked. But are to keep firearms out of the hands of 1 minute to the gentleman from Ten- you telling me that that person who is felons. Do we have the technology, does nessee (Mr. FORD). refused because of that background the national instant check system have Mr. FORD. Mr. Chairman, we make it check did not also go out and find a the technology, the personnel capa- difficult for criminals to get jobs. It gun on the illegal market? bility to handle this? I say, yes. We ap- should be that way. We make it dif- Let us just make it reasonable for propriated $200 million to do so. We ficult for criminals to be able to vote. the millions of Americans who are not have that technology. It should be that way. For rapists, for afraid of guns, who have them for pro- Mr. Chairman, the Second Amend- molesters, for murderers, for those who tection, and also for sporting. ment to our Constitution is only 27 mug folks. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield words. Mr. Chairman, please let us Here we are this evening confronted 15 seconds to the gentlewoman from close the loophole and not infringe with the proposition from one of the New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY). upon our constitutional right of Ameri- great Members of this body who would Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. cans to bear arms. Vote for the Dingell have us believe that there is something Chairman, I just want to make a clari- amendment. unreasonable about making it more fication, that my amendment actually H4592 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 has in it that there will be no national Lautenberg amendment will have the This amendment is worse than the law that registration for guns. It is in the power to amass information regarding currently exists. The American people have amendment. It would make it a law. gun owners in America that the gov- asked us to pass common sense gun safety Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Chairman, I ernment does not now have the power laws. This is not it. Oppose the Dingell yield myself the balance of my time. to collect and maintain. Amendment. I thank the gentlewoman from New The one phrase that appears more PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) for that last than any other in the McCarthy-Lau- Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I have statement because I was going to make tenberg amendment relates to powers a parliamentary inquiry. that point, too. Let us get back to the to promulgate rules and regulations for The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will facts and not the rhetoric, the loose the retention of information to the state it. rhetoric here. ATF. Mr. DINGELL. Who has the right to This Dingell amendment, as far as I Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield close? am concerned, is a business deal for 30 seconds to the gentlewoman from The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman criminals and gunrunners. It gives Texas (Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON.) from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has the them a special advantage. Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of right to close. PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY Texas. Mr. Chairman, there is not time Mr. DINGELL. I believe I am the of- Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, to read a statement or anything else feror of the amendment. parliamentary inquiry. but to simply say, with all of these rea- The CHAIRMAN. As the manager The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman sonable people sitting here, we are try- from the Committee on the Judiciary has not yielded to the gentleman for a ing to do one thing with the McCarthy controlling time in opposition, the gen- parliamentary inquiry. The gentle- amendment, protect our children and tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) woman from New Jersey controls the keep the guns out of the criminals’ has the right to close. time. hands. It is so simple. I do not know Mr. DINGELL. Very well. Mr. CUNNINGHAM. She does, but is what the NRA does to make so many Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the it the rules of the House that someone people so fearful. But please protect gentleman from Tennessee (Mr. CLEM- is to question the motives of the gen- the children tonight. ENT). tleman? Mr. Chairman, I rise tonight in opposition to b 2320 Mrs. ROUKEMA. I am not ques- the Dingell Amendment. This amendment tioning his motives. I reclaim my time. does not address the problem we are trying to Mr. CLEMENT. Mr. Chairman, I The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman solve. Too many people who should not have strongly support the second amend- from New Jersey controls the time. access to guns can walk into a gun show and ment. I defend an individual’s right to The gentlewoman may proceed. buy a gun, no questions asked. bear arms. I know very well that we Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Chairman, what While we are trying to restrict the easy ac- have to close the loopholes, and so does it actually does is it gives gun shows a cess, criminals and juveniles have had access the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. DIN- business advantage over all the law- to guns at gun shows. The Dingell amendment GELL) know that as well. abiding federally licensed gun dealers would make it easier on criminals and juve- That is why he has proposed this and gun shows. I believe we need the niles. amendment, saying that we have to same rules for everyone. The amendment too narrowly restricts the close these loopholes at the gun shows, I also must say, we have got to get definition of a gun show. If you sell your guns because 6 percent of the guns sold in back to the facts. There are accurate at a gun show from a rolling cart, the Dingell this country are at the gun shows reports that since 1993, the background amendment says you don't need to perform a today, and some of them are to individ- checks established by the Brady law background check on your customers. Slap uals that are not gun dealers. And have blocked gun sales to over 400,000 some wheels on your booth and you don't therefore, it is in our best interests to felons, fugitives, stalkers and mentally have to follow the law. bring about fairness and equity, and ill persons. Further, if you decide not to ``sponsor'' the knowing that we have improved the We have said, and I think it bears re- gun show under the reasons in the Dingell system from the past, maybe the Din- peating, that the FBI estimates that a amendment, you don't have to do a back- gell amendment would not have made 24-hour rule such as the Dingell amend- ground check either. Nor do you have to do any sense years ago. But we now have ment would mean that over 17,000 peo- background checks if there are less than ten a national instant background check ple who are stopped by current back- vendors at the show, no matter the number of that we did not have before; therefore, ground checks in the current system, it weapons sold. we are in a position to check on the would have not gotten those 17,000 peo- The amendment changes the Brady Law to guns that are sold within a 24-hour pe- ple who were stopped by the back- give law enforcement agencies a mere 24 riod. ground checks. hours to do a background check. So, if you Mr. Chairman, I encourage everyone Finally, I must repeat again that the buy a gun at a gun show at 5:00 p.m. and the to support the Dingell amendment. Let checks occurring on a Saturday under background check cannot be completed until us close the loopholes. the Dingell 24-hour rule would mean Monday, you get the gun. Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, I yield that more than 60 percent of current Even with 72 hours to complete background 11⁄2 minutes to the distinguished gen- denials would not have been made. checks, as its stands in the underlying legisla- tleman from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL). That means literally a convicted rap- tion, the Justice Department says that 28% of Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I ist, child molester or any other felon felons, fugitives and other prohibited people would like to reserve that time at this could have gotten the gun and that would have gotten guns. The Dingell Amend- moment. would be part of the 60 percent. ment only increases that percentage. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, In summary, I think we have to say, The Dingell Amendment would allow gun 11⁄2 minutes of the gentleman from Ten- let us give law enforcement the upper show dealers to complete the sale after the nessee’s time shall be controlled by the hand, because this is about law and show with no background check required. This gentleman from Michigan (Mr. DIN- order. It is not about taking guns away would give gun show sellers incentive to give GELL). from law-abiding citizens. out their home address and say ``Stop by on There was no objection. Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, I yield your way home from the show and I can get Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 seconds to the gentleman from Geor- you a gun with none of that background check 30 seconds to the gentlewoman from gia (Mr. BARR). hassle.'' Florida (Ms. BROWN). Mr. BARR of Georgia. I appreciate These are only a few of the problems with Ms. BROWN of Florida. Mr. Chair- the gentleman yielding me this time. the amendment, but I think they are enough. man, I rise in solid opposition to the Mr. Chairman, for the first time, if We cannot allow the NRA to ghost-write this Dingell amendment. We can fool some McCarthy-Lautenberg is adopted in legislation. This amendment is simply the last of the people some of the time, but we lieu of the Dingell amendment, the gasps of the NRA to hold on to anything they cannot fool all of the people all of the Federal Government through extensive have. The NRA is fighting in the face of com- time, and the American people are not powers granted under the McCarthy- mon sense. fooled by this amendment. June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4593 I can tell my colleagues that this is morning, attempts to buy a gun. The this country, State criminal justice an example of this Congress not being police discover on Monday morning systems are not automated. Many serious about closing the gun show that he has a criminal background criminal records are kept on card files. loopholes. If we are serious, we will record of beating his wife and a long In 24 hours, that is an insufficient vote tonight to close the gun show criminal rap sheet. Under the Dingell amount of time for law enforcement to loopholes. amendment, he gets to buy the gun. do an adequate or thorough check. To Let me tell my colleagues, the Amer- Under the McCarthy amendment, he say that we can do an instant check in ican people are watching us tonight. does not. 24 hours is to assume that everyone has Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I yield Support the McCarthy amendment. computers. Go to the criminal justice myself 2 minutes. It is the real loophole closer. It is the office in your community and see if Mr. Chairman, I ask my colleagues to one that we ought to support tonight. they are not kept on cards. If they are, know that those of us who sponsor this The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman then you know that instant check will amendment are not interested in in- from Tennessee (Mr. BRYANT) has 1 not work. I rise in support of McCar- creasing crime, we are interested in minute remaining; the gentlewoman thy-Conyers-Campbell. bringing it to a halt. This is a form, from New Jersey has extinguished her b 2330 4473. In it, the individual who files it time. The gentleman from Michigan has to prove through his statements (Mr. CONYERS) has 31⁄4 minutes remain- Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I yield that he is eligible in all particulars and ing; the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. 2 minutes to my distinguished friend, has not disqualified himself from the DINGELL) has 3 minutes remaining. the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. purchase of a firearm. That is filed, and Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, I yield MURTHA). if one files it falsely, that is a felony. myself the balance of my time. Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Chairman, the And if one picks up a gun after having Mr. Chairman, I want to thank the other day I spoke at a Memorial Day filed this falsely, that is a second fel- gentleman from Michigan (Mr. DIN- service in Lilly, Pennsylvania. In Lilly ony. GELL) for sponsoring this, I believe, during World War I they had lost 14 or Now, the instant check system is very good amendment, a good solution 15 people. In World War II they had lost working, and it is instant, not a long to the problem at hand. Lest we all for- a little less. But one family sent 10 check. It is instant. It is supposed to be get, ultimately we are talking about a boys to World War II. That mother was instant. constitutional amendment, a right honored as the Mother of the Year in Mr. Chairman, we are talking here here, and as we all know, when we 1945. about a precious right. We have been begin to legislate, to impair or restrict I said, would you like to say some- talking about the first amendment, that constitutional right as we would thing? And the one boy, 74 years old and now we are talking about the sec- in the first amendment or second now, got up and he said, I went to the amendment or any other amendment, ond amendment. I do not divide the Navy and I came back and I worked in we need to do it in a minimum way, in Bill of Rights. But I call on my col- that coal mine, and he sat down. An- the least burdensome way. other young man, 85 years old, got the leagues to understand that in 24 hours, I have reviewed these amendments, there should be sufficient time, be- Silver Star, the Bronze Star, two Pur- and I believe that the Dingell amend- ple Hearts, and a combat infantryman cause by the time this legislation is in ment fits that description and best badge from World War II. And I said, effect, the Attorney General will have suits the issue as we need it now. I would you like to say something? He merged the State and the Federal sys- have chosen to support it. I think it said, I said my say in World War II. tem so that she can get full informa- provides the best balance between the We get up here and we talk and we tion immediately. Mr. Chairman, 24 right of law-abiding citizens to pur- talk and we talk. We act like we are hours is quite enough. chase guns and to prevent law-breaking going to solve these problems. After I Now, gun shows are not Saturnalias citizens from not purchasing guns. went out and mingled with the crowd, of criminals who are bent on destroy- So I urge my colleagues to support the whole town was there, only 2,000 ing the lives and the well-being of inno- the Dingell amendment to this bill. cent citizens. They are a group of inno- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield people in the town, these folks came to cent citizens who are doing something 30 seconds to the gentlewoman from me and said, you folks keep abridging our rights. You keep taking away our that goes back as far as Plymouth Florida (Mrs. MEEK). Rock. They are getting together to sell Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chair- rights. You keep passing laws that the and trade and engage in commerce, and man, the McCarthy-Conyers-Campbell ordinary citizen lose their ability to do they are strictly regulated. amendment plugs the loopholes in the their business. We are closing the gun show loophole gun bill. The opponents need an amend- I have one of the lowest crime rates by making everybody who participates ment to make it look like they would in the country. Our folks go about in those sales subject to the law. They have gun control, but it is not effec- their business. Our big business is the must file the document, and they must tive. They did not want to provide any- industrial revolution. We produced all be submitted to the instant check. I do thing effective, so they chose the Din- the steel and coal for the country. not know how much more we can ask gell amendment. We have to do better They do not listen to Washington a lot. for in terms of seeing to it that we than that. We have to vote for McCar- There is nobody listening to what I am have effectively dealt with the prob- thy-Conyers-Campbell. It plugs the saying tonight. They are in bed, be- lems of crime. To go beyond this is loopholes. We need to plug these loop- cause they have to get up the next simply to harass innocent, law-abiding holes. Let us not give the Republicans morning and go to work. citizens and to hurt people who love to a relief act through the Dingell amend- Mr. Chairman, let me say this. If go to gun shows to see their fellow citi- ment. Let us kill the Dingell amend- Members think what we are trying to zens, to talk about guns, to look at ment. do here today is going to solve these firearms, to perhaps purchase a fire- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman problems, it is much more complicated arm, or more likely to purchase some from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) has 23⁄4 than that. All we are trying to do with other kind of sporting accoutrements. minutes remaining; the gentleman the Dingell amendment is reduce some Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL) has 3 of the burden on the law-abiding citi- to support the amendment. minutes remaining. zens. I ask Members to support the Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Dingell amendment. 30 seconds to the gentleman from New 30 seconds to the gentlewoman from Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Jersey (Mr. ANDREWS). Ohio (Mrs. JONES). myself 15 seconds to remind my friend (Mr. ANDREWS asked and was given Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, I that if it had not been for the Com- permission to revise and extend his re- rise in support of the McCarthy-Con- mittee on Rules, we would be in bed, marks.) yers-Campbell amendment to plug the too, tonight. Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Chairman, an loopholes. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to yield angry, paranoid schizophrenic goes to a The realities, I say to my colleagues, 30 seconds to the gentleman from Illi- gun show at 10 o’clock on a Saturday are, that in communities throughout nois (Mr. BLAGOJEVICH). H4594 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 Mr. BLAGOJEVICH. Mr. Chairman, I ment and in support of the McCarthy loss of their child to gun violence, please vote thank the gentleman for yielding time amendment that will protect the chil- for the McCarthy-Roukema amendment and to me. dren of America. close this loophole which has caused the Let me just clarify, this is about Mr. Chairman, the Dingell amendment does death of too many of our children. The Dingell closing a loophole so criminals cannot one thing. It would make sure it's easy for amendment ensures that criminals will be able get guns. With all due respect to the criminals to get guns shows and flea markets. to buy guns. gentleman from Michigan (Chairman Do hunters need that? Do sportsmen? No. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield DINGELL), under his bill nine unli- With the instant check proposed, most pur- such time as she may consume to the censed gun dealers can call themselves chasers will be approved quickly. But the gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. a gun show and sell thousands of guns, criminals won't. The gun lobby wants to try to SCHAKOWSKY). literally, and no requirement to fill out scare normal sportsmen into believing that (Ms. SCHAKOWSKY asked and was the form the gentleman from Michigan keeping felons from buying guns means duck given permission to revise and extend (Chairman DINGELL) referenced mo- hunting season is canceled this year. her remarks.) ments ago. I hope that the honest sportsmen and Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Chairman, I To the hunters of America and NRA women of this county won't buy it and I hope rise in opposition to the Dingell members across the land, let me firmly that the House will not either. amendment and in support of the Con- assert, they have nothing to fear but Vote ``no'' on this deceptive amendment. yers-Campbell amendment and the fear itself. This is about criminals not Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield McCarthy-Roukema-Blagojevich getting guns, not themselves. They are such time as she may consume to the g amendment. law-biding citizens. They are great pa- entlewoman from New York (Mrs. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield triots. They love their country and LOWEY). such time as she may consume to the their guns. (Mrs. LOWEY asked and was given gentlewoman from New York (Ms. The criminals will get less guns, permission to revise and extend her re- VELA´ ZQUEZ). there are more guns for NRA members marks.) (Ms. VELA´ ZQUEZ asked and was and hunters. Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in given permission to revise and extend Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I yield opposition to the Dingell amendment her remarks.) myself such time as I may consume. and in support of the amendment of my Ms. VELA´ ZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. Chairman, we are talking about good friend the gentlewoman from New rise on behalf of American children, closing loopholes. Let us address it. York (Mrs. MCCARTHY). and in opposition to the Dingell The person who buys a gun at a gun Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield amendment allowing criminals to buy show or anywhere else has to fill out such time as she may consume to the guns at gun shows, and in support of this form. Failure to fill it out truth- gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. JACK- the McCarthy-Conyers amendment. fully constitutes a felony. Purchase of SON-LEE). Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield a gun with a falsified 4473 form con- (Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas asked such time as she may consume to the stitutes a felony. We are covering all and was given permission to revise and gentlewoman from Nevada (Ms. BERK- sales at gun shows with the penalties extend her remarks.) LEY). of this. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. (Ms. BERKLEY asked and was given Mrs. Reno has said, NIC has been a Chairman, on behalf of the American permission to revise and extend her re- tremendous success. Simply stated, de- people, I rise in opposition to the Din- marks.) nials and arrests translate into lives gell amendment and in support of the Ms. BERKLEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise saved and less crime. The hard fact of Conyers amendment, the McCarthy in opposition to the Dingell amend- the matter is it is working now. It will amendment, to keep guns out of the ment and in support of the McCarthy work better. By the time the effective hands of criminals. and the Campbell-Conyers amendment. date of this act is present, we will find Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Extension of the 3-day background that gun shows will be able to do all such time as she may consume to the check to guns purchased at gun shows the things that are necessary. gentlewoman from California (Ms. is fair and sensible and will close a There is no reason to burden a law- LEE). glaring loophole in our gun laws. abiding citizen with more than 24 hours (Ms. LEE asked and was given per- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield delay. To go further is simply to assure mission to revise and extend her re- such time as she may consume to the that people will go around gun shows marks.) gentlewoman from Connecticut (Ms. and will achieve gun purchases and Ms. LEE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in op- DELAURO). ownership in other ways. position to the Dingell amendment, (Ms. DELAURO asked and was given I urge my colleagues to make the re- and to allowing criminals to buy guns permission to revise and extend her re- sponsible vote. Let us close the loop- at gun shows, and to guns being sold to marks.) hole. Let us see to it that we cover all children who end up dying each and Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Chairman, I rise sales at gun shows, and let us pass a de- every day from gun violence. in opposition to the Dingell amend- cent bill that the people can support. Mr. Chairman, the American people were ment and in support of the McCarthy Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield promised commonsense gun control. The amendment. On behalf of of American such time as she may consume to the American people expect us to take common- parents and their children. gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. sense measures to prevent the sale of guns to Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am MALONEY). the wrong people. However, Mr. DINGELL's pleased to yield the balance of my time (Mrs. MALONEY of New York asked amendment will allow criminals to get guns. to close debate on our portion of this and was given permission to revise and Of course we know that these guns end up very important proposal to the gen- extend her remarks.) in the hands of children. And then, what do we tleman from Georgia (Mr. LEWIS). Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. haveÐchildren in urban and now, suburban The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Chairman, I rise in support of the communities killing each other. And then, to from Georgia (Mr. LEWIS) is recognized McCarthy amendment and in support add insult to injury, this Congress's response for 11⁄2 minutes. of America’s children and the victims is to enhance sentences and try young people Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Chair- of gun violence in America. in the courts as adults rather than provide for man, 34,000 lives lost, not in the Far Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield measures to prevent juveniles from becoming East, not in Eastern Europe, not in Af- such time as she may consume to the violent in the first place through crime preven- rica, but right here in America on our gentlewoman from California (Ms. tion measures as the Conyers Campbell sub- streets, in our neighborhoods, on our LOFGREN). stitute would have addressed. playgrounds; 34,000 lives lost, lost to (Ms. LOFGREN asked and was given The emergency rooms in our hospitals and gun violence last year. permission to revise and extend her re- our mortuaries are filled with young people. What would it take before we act, an- marks.) For those of us who have witnessed the am- other Littleton, another Paducah, an- Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, I rise bulances and heard the sirens around the other Conyers, another Jonesboro? in opposition to the Dingell amend- clock, for those who feel the pain from the Thirteen children a day lost, lost to June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4595 gun violence. We need courage, nothing to proceed, thus allowing criminals to buy Sessions Strickland Turner Shadegg Stump Vitter but raw courage, to protect the lives of weapons at large gun shows at the beginning Sherwood Sununu Walden our children. of a holiday weekend, while, after 24 hours, Shimkus Sweeney Walsh I am sick and tired of going to funer- the gun is theirs. Shows Talent Wamp als of young children. How many more Shuster Tancredo Watkins This amendment is misguided, misleading, Simpson Tanner Watts (OK) times must I hold a weeping mother in and even dangerous! In fact, this is an exam- Sisisky Tauzin Weldon (FL) my arms? How long, how long before ple of the lack of seriousness in this Congress Skeen Taylor (MS) Weldon (PA) we act to stop this senseless violence? in trying to keep guns out of the hands of Skelton Taylor (NC) Weller During another period in our history Smith (MI) Terry Whitfield criminals. You know, you can fool some of the Smith (TX) Thornberry Wicker we have sung, where have all the chil- people some of the time, but not all of the Souder Thune Wilson dren gone, in some graveyard one by people all of the time, and let me say that the Spence Tiahrt Wise one? Stearns Toomey Young (AK) American people are not fooled by the rhetoric Stenholm Traficant b 2340 of this group! The dilution of the Senate bill is appalling! If the Congress is really serious NOES—211 Thirty-four thousand lives gone; lost; about keeping guns out of the hands of crimi- Abercrombie Gejdenson Nadler dead; buried because of gun violence. nals, this amendment will be defeated, and the Ackerman Gephardt Napolitano Joshua of old says, ‘‘Choose you this Allen Gilchrest Neal gun-show loopholes closed! day whom you will serve.’’ Andrews Gonzalez Northup The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Baird Greenwood Olver Will we serve the NRA or will we the amendment offered by the gen- Baldacci Gutierrez Ose serve our people, our Nation, our chil- Baldwin Hall (OH) Owens tleman from Michigan (Mr. DINGELL). dren? As for me and my house, I will Barrett (WI) Hastings (FL) Pallone The question was taken; and the Bateman Hinchey Pascrell cast my lot and my vote with the chil- Chairman announced that the ayes Becerra Hinojosa Pastor dren. Close the gun show loophole. De- Bentsen Hoeffel Payne appeared to have it. feat the Dingell amendment. Vote for Bereuter Holt Pelosi RECORDED VOTE Berkley Hooley Peterson (MN) the McCarthy amendment. Berman Horn Pomeroy Mr. TOWNS. Mr. Chairman, this amendment Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I de- Berry Hoyer Porter is another attempt by the NRA and its allies to mand a recorded vote. Bilbray Hyde Price (NC) block meaningful gun control legislation. A recorded vote was ordered. Blagojevich Inslee Pryce (OH) Blumenauer Jackson (IL) Quinn Observe for a moment the ramifications of The vote was taken by electronic de- Boehlert Jackson-Lee Ramstad this measure. It reduces the maximum time for vice, and there were—ayes 218, noes 211, Bonior (TX) Rangel background checks to 24 hours, rather than 3 not voting 6, as follows: Bono Jefferson Regula Borski Johnson (CT) Rivers business days under the current Brady law. If [Roll No. 234] Brady (PA) Johnson, E. B. Roemer the background check is not completed within AYES—218 Brown (FL) Jones (OH) Rogan Brown (OH) Kaptur Ros-Lehtinen the allotted time, then the sale would be per- Aderholt Emerson Lewis (CA) Campbell Kelly Rothman mitted. Archer English Lewis (KY) Capps Kennedy Roukema Armey Everett Linder Certain statistics from the Department of Capuano Kildee Roybal-Allard Bachus Ewing LoBiondo Justice cite that 40% of denied requests would Cardin Kilpatrick Rush Baker Fletcher Lucas (KY) Castle Kind (WI) Sabo go through if this amendment passed. The Ballenger Foley Lucas (OK) Clay King (NY) Sanchez Barcia Fowler Manzullo reason people have been denied a gun is that Clayton Kleczka Sanders Barr Gallegly Martinez they have a history of violence and could po- Clyburn Klink Sawyer Barrett (NE) Gekas Mascara Condit Kucinich Scarborough tentially harm some innocent person, or they Bartlett Gibbons McCrery Conyers Kuykendall Schakowsky are too young to possess firearms. Barton Gillmor McHugh Coyne LaFalce Scott Bass Gilman McInnis Now the law will force states that do not Crowley Lantos Serrano Biggert Goode McIntosh keep very good records, or are slow at retriev- Cummings Larson Shaw Bilirakis Goodlatte McIntyre Davis (FL) Lazio Shays ing the necessary information, to permit a gun Bishop Goodling McKeon Davis (IL) Leach Sherman Bliley Gordon Metcalf sale that should be denied. What is the ur- Davis (VA) Lee Slaughter Blunt Goss Mica gency? Why would a person need a gun with- DeFazio Levin Smith (NJ) Boehner Graham Miller, Gary DeGette Lewis (GA) Smith (WA) in one day instead of a couple of days later? Bonilla Granger Mollohan Delahunt Lipinski Snyder Could it be to threaten or exact revenue? Boswell Green (TX) Moran (KS) DeLauro Lofgren Spratt Boucher Green (WI) Murtha Well, this would be quite possible if this Deutsch Lowey Stabenow Boyd Gutknecht Myrick amendment passes and a weapon ends up in Diaz-Balart Luther Stark Brady (TX) Hall (TX) Nethercutt Dicks Maloney (CT) Stupak the hands of someone who should not have it. Bryant Hansen Ney Dixon Maloney (NY) Tauscher Burr Hastert Norwood We should be taking additional precautions Doggett Markey Thompson (CA) Burton Hastings (WA) Nussle to make sure that we keep guns out of the Dooley Matsui Thompson (MS) Buyer Hayes Oberstar Doolittle McCarthy (MO) Thurman hands of convicted felons, not dismantling Callahan Hayworth Obey Doyle McCarthy (NY) Tierney them and purposely creating loopholes. And if Calvert Hefley Ortiz Dunn McCollum Towns Camp Herger Oxley that means taking another 48 hours, by all Edwards McDermott Udall (CO) Canady Hill (IN) Packard means I think that public safety should have Ehlers McGovern Udall (NM) Cannon Hill (MT) Paul Engel McKinney Upton preference. If a person needs a gun on Friday, Chabot Hilleary Pease Eshoo McNulty Velazquez Chambliss Hilliard Peterson (PA) then he or she should buy it three business Etheridge Meehan Vento Chenoweth Hobson Petri days in advance. Evans Meek (FL) Visclosky Clement Hoekstra Phelps The NRA does not care who gets guns. Farr Meeks (NY) Waters Coble Holden Pickering Fattah Menendez Watt (NC) Their philosophy is simply to oppose any regu- Coburn Hostettler Pickett Filner Millender- Waxman Collins Hulshof Pitts lation of guns, period, no matter what the con- Forbes McDonald Weiner Combest Hunter Pombo sequences are. The current Brady law makes Ford Miller (FL) Wexler Cook Hutchinson Portman Fossella Miller, George Weygand this country safer by keeping guns out of the Cooksey Isakson Radanovich Frank (MA) Mink Wolf hands of criminals, and therefore I urge the Costello Istook Rahall Franks (NJ) Moakley Woolsey Cox Jenkins Reyes House to oppose this amendment. Frelinghuysen Moore Wu Cramer John Reynolds Ms. BROWN of Florida. Mr. Chairman, I rise Frost Moran (VA) Wynn Crane Johnson, Sam Riley Ganske Morella Young (FL) in solid opposition to the Dingell amendment. Cubin Jones (NC) Rodriguez While supporters of this amendment claim to Cunningham Kanjorski Rogers NOT VOTING—6 Danner Kasich Rohrabacher close the gun show loophole by requiring Brown (CA) Houghton Salmon Deal Kingston Royce Carson Minge Thomas background checks, this amendment reduces DeLay Knollenberg Ryan (WI) to just 24 hours the amount of time that law DeMint Kolbe Ryun (KS) b enforcement officers have to conduct back- Dickey LaHood Sandlin 0002 ground checks at gun shows. Dingell Lampson Sanford So the amendment was agreed to. Dreier Largent Saxton Moreover, if the check cannot be completed Duncan Latham Schaffer The result of the vote was announced within the 24 hours, the sale would be allowed Ehrlich LaTourette Sensenbrenner as above recorded. H4596 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 Stated against: participating in the gun show by examining ‘‘(1) enter such information about the fire- Mr. MINGE. Mr. Chairman, on rollcall no. a valid identification document (as defined arm as the Secretary may require by regula- 234, had I been present, I would have voted in section 1028(d)(1)) of the vendor containing tion into a separate bound record; ``no.'' a photograph of the vendor; ‘‘(2) record the transfer on a form specified The CHAIRMAN. It is now in order to ‘‘(2) before admitting a gun show vendir, by the Secretary; requires such gun show vendor to sign— ‘‘(3) comply with section 922(t) as if trans- consider Amendment No. 2 printed in ‘‘(A) a ledger with identifying information ferring the firearm from the inventory of the Part B of House Report 106–186. concerning the vendor; and licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. ‘‘(B) a notice advising the vendor of the ob- licensed dealer to the designated transferee Chairman, I ask unanimous consent ligations of the vendor under this chapter; (although a licensed importer, licensed man- that the debate time on the McCarthy- and ufacturer, or licensed dealer complying with Roukema amendment be extended 10 ‘‘(3) notifies each person who attends the this subsection shall not be required to com- minutes, 5 minutes on each side. gun show of the applicable requirements of ply again with the requirements of section Mr. BARTON of Texas. Mr. Chair- this section, in accordance with such regula- 922(t) in delivering the firearm to the non- tions as the Secretary shall prescribe; and licensed transferor), and notify the non- man, reserving the right to object, and ‘‘(4) maintains a copy of the records de- licensed transferor and the nonlicensed I would not object if the leadership on scribed in paragraphs (1) and (2) at the per- transferee— both sides would agree that we could manent place of business of the gun show ‘‘(A) of such compliance; and roll the vote until 10 a.m. tomorrow promoter for such period of time and in such ‘‘(B) if the transfer is subject to the re- morning. form as the Secretary shall require by regu- quirements of section 922(t)(1), of any receipt The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection lation. by the licensed importer, licensed manufac- to the request of the gentlewoman ‘‘(c) RESPONSIBILITIES OF TRANSFERORS turer, or licensed dealer of a notification from New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY)? OTHER THAN LICENSEES.— from the national instant criminal back- Mr. BARTON of Texas. I object, Mr. ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—If any part of a firearm ground check system that the transfer would violate section 922 or would violate State Chairman. transaction takes place at a gun show, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not law; The CHAIRMAN. Objection is heard. licensed under this chapter to transfer a fire- ‘‘(4) not later than 10 days after the date on AMENDMENT NO. 2 OFFERED BY MRS. MC CARTHY arm to another person who is not licensed which the transfer occurs, submit to the Sec- OF NEW YORK under this chapter, unless the firearm is retary a report of the transfer, which Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. transferred through a licensed importer, li- report— Chairman, I offer an amendment. censed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in ‘‘(A) shall be on a form specified by the The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- accordance with subsection (e). Secretary by regulation; and ignate the amendment. ‘‘(2) CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.—A per- ‘‘(B) shall not include the name of or other The text of the amendment is as fol- son who is subject to the requirement of identifying information relating to any per- son involved in the transfer who is not li- lows: paragraph (1)— ‘‘(A) shall not transfer the firearm to the censed under this chapter; Part B amendment No. 2 offered by transferee until the licensed importer, li- ‘‘(5) if the licensed importer, licensed man- Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York: censed manufacturer, or licensed dealer ufacturer, or licensed dealer assists a person Strike section 2(b) and all that follows through which the transfer is made under other than a licensee in transferring, at 1 through the end of the bill and insert the fol- subsection (e) makes the notification de- time or during any 5 consecutive business lowing: scribed in subsection (e)(3)(A); and days, 2 or more pistols or revolvers, or any (b) DEFINITIONS.—Section 921(a) of title 18, ‘‘(B) notwithstanding subparagraph (A), combination of pistols and revolvers totaling United States Code, is amended by adding at shall not transfer the firearm to the trans- 2 or more, to the same nonlicensed person, in the end the following: feree if the licensed importer, licensed manu- addition to the reports required under para- ‘‘(35) GUN SHOW.—The term ‘gun show’ facturer, or licensed dealer through which graph (4), prepare a report of the multiple means any event— the transfer is made under subsection (e) transfers, which report shall be— ‘‘(A) at which 50 or more firearms are of- makes the notification described in sub- ‘‘(A) prepared on a form specified by the fered or exhibited for sale, transfer, or ex- section (e)(3)(B). Secretary; and change, if 1 or more of the firearms has been ‘‘(3) ABSENCE OF RECORDKEEPING REQUIRE- ‘‘(B) not later than the close of business on shipped or transported in, or otherwise af- MENTS.—Nothing in this section shall permit the date on which the transfer occurs, for- fects, interstate or foreign commerce; and or authorize the Secretary to impose record- warded to— ‘‘(B) at which there are 2 or more gun show keeping requirements on any nonlicensed ‘‘(i) the office specified on the form de- vendors. vendor. scribed in subparagraph (A); and ‘‘(36) GUN SHOW PROMOTER.—The term ‘gun ‘‘(d) RESPONSIBILITIES OF TRANSFEREES ‘‘(ii) the appropriate State law enforce- show promoter’ means any person who orga- OTHER THAN LICENSEES.— ment agency of the jurisdiction in which the nizes, plans, promotes, or operates a gun ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—If any part of a firearm transfer occurs; and show. transaction takes place at a gun show, it ‘‘(6) retain a record of the transfer as part ‘‘(37) GUN SHOW VENDOR.—The term ‘gun shall be unlawful for any person who is not of the permanent business records of the li- show vendor’ means any person who exhibits, licensed under this chapter to receive a fire- censed importer, licensed manufacturer, or sells, offers for sale, transfers, or exchanges arm from another person who is not licensed licensed dealer. 1 or more firearms at a gun show, regardless under this chapter, unless the firearm is ‘‘(f) RECORDS OF LICENSEE TRANSFERS.—If of whether or not the person arranges with transferred through a licensed importer, li- any part of a firearm transaction takes place the gun show promoter for a fixed location censed manufacturer, or licensed dealer in at a gun show, each licensed importer, li- from which to exhibit, sell, offer for sale, accordance with subsection (e). censed manufacturer, and licensed dealer transfer, or exchange 1 or more firearms.’’ ‘‘(2) CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.—A per- who transfers 1 or more firearms to a person (c) REGULATION OF FIREARMS TRANSFERS AT son who is subject to the requirement of who is not licensed under this chapter shall, GUN SHOWS.— paragraph (1)— not later than 10 days after the date on (1) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of title 18, ‘‘(A) shall not receive the firearm from the which the transfer occurs, submit to the Sec- United States Code, is amended by adding at transferor until the licensed importer, li- retary a report of the transfer, which the end the following: censed manufacturer, or licensed dealer report— ‘‘§ 931. Regulation of firearms transfers at through which the transfer is made under ‘‘(1) shall be in a form specified by the Sec- gun shows subsection (e) makes the notification de- retary by regulation; ‘‘(a) REGISTRATION OF GUN SHOW PRO- scribed in subsection (e)(3)(A); and ‘‘(2) shall not include the name of or other MOTERS.—It shall be unlawful for any person ‘‘(B) notwithstanding subparagraph (A), identifying information relating to the to organize, plan, promote, or operate a gun shall not receive the firearm from the trans- transferee; and show unless that person— feror if the licensed importer, licensed manu- ‘‘(3) shall not duplicate information pro- ‘‘(1) registers with the Secretary in accord- facturer, or licensed dealer through which vided in any report required under sub- ance with regulations promulgated by the the transfer is made under subsection (e) section (e)(4). Secretary; and makes the notification described in sub- ‘‘(g) FIREARM TRANSACTION DEFINED.—In ‘‘(2) pays a registration fee, in an amount section (e)(3)(B). this section, the term ‘firearm transaction’— determined by the Secretary. ‘‘(e) RESPONSIBILITIES OF LICENSEES.—A li- ‘‘(1) includes the offer for sale, sale, trans- ‘‘(b) RESPONSIBILITIES OF GUN SHOW PRO- censed importer, licensed manufacturer, or fer, or exchange of a firearm; and MOTERS.—It shall be unlawful for any person licensed dealer who agrees to assist a person ‘‘(2) does not include the mere exhibition of to organize, plan, promote, or operate a gun who is not licensed under this chapter in car- a firearm.’’. show unless that person— rying out the responsibilities of that person (2) PENALTIES.—Section 924(a) of title 18, ‘‘(1) before admitting a gun show vendor, under subsection (c) or (d) with respect to United States Code, is amended by adding at verifies the identity of each gun show vendor the transfer of a firearm shall— the end the following: June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4597 ‘‘(7)(A) Whoever knowingly violates sec- (1) PENALTIES.—Section 924 of title 18, about the Dingell proposal, and I guess tion 931(a) shall be fined under this title, im- United States Code, is amended— now that it has been passed, I think we prisoned not more than 5 years, or both. (A) in paragraph (5), by striking ‘‘sub- have to explain in fundamental terms ‘‘(B) Whoever knowingly violates sub- section (s) or (t) of section 922’’ and inserting exactly why, now more than ever, we section (b) or (c) of section 931, shall be— ‘‘section 922(s)’’; and ‘‘(i) fined under this title, imprisoned not (B) by adding at the end the following: need the McCarthy amendment. more than 2 years, or both; and ‘‘(8) Whoever knowingly violates section b 0010 ‘‘(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent 922(t) shall be fined under this title, impris- conviction, such person shall be fined under oned not more than 5 years, or both.’’. Now, I want my colleagues to under- this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, (2) ELIMINATION OF CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF stand that what the McCarthy- or both. OFFENSE.—Section 922(t)(5) of title 18, United Roukema amendment does in the first ‘‘(C) Whoever willfully violates section States Code, is amended by striking ‘‘and, at place is simply closes that Dingell 931(d), shall be— the time’’ and all that follows through loophole or any loopholes in the gun ‘‘(i) fined under this title, imprisoned not ‘‘State law’’. more than 2 years, or both; and show. (g) GUN OWNER PRIVACY AND PREVENTION It is the Senate bill. And it is not ‘‘(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent OF FRAUD AND ABUSE OF SYSTEM INFORMA- conviction, such person shall be fined under TION.—Section 922(t)(2)(C) of title 18, United about taking guns away from law-abid- this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, States Code, is amended by inserting before ing citizens. It is plain and simply or both. the period at the end the following: ‘‘, as about keeping guns out of the hands of ‘‘(D) Whoever knowingly violates sub- soon as possible, consistent with the respon- criminals. section (e) or (f) of section 931 shall be fined sibility of the Attorney General under sec- I can give my colleagues the statis- under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 tion 103(h) of the Brady Handgun Violence tics. FBI statistics are very clear that years, or both. Prevention Act to ensure the privacy and se- ‘‘(E) In addition to any other penalties im- this loophole is going to increase im- curity of the system and to prevent system posed under this paragraph, the Secretary measurably gun sales and make gun fraud and abuse, but in no event later than 90 may, with respect to any person who know- days after the date which the licensee first runners out of criminals and gun shows ingly violates any provision of section 931— contacts the system with respect to the will be legal gun running operations. ‘‘(i) if the person is registered pursuant to transfer. In no event shall such records be Mr. Chairman, as the cosponsor of this section 931(a), after notice and opportunity used for the creation of a national firearms amendment I rise in strong support of the for a hearing, suspend for not more than 6 registry’’. months or revoke the registration of that amendment offered by my colleague from (h) INTERSTATE SHIPMENT OF LICENSEES.— New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY). person under section 931(a); and Nothing in this section shall affect the right ‘‘(ii) impose a civil fine in an amount equal Mr. Chairman, this debate is not about tak- of a licensed importer, licensed manufac- ing guns away from sportsmen and hunters or to not more than $10,000.’’. turer or licensed dealer to receive or ship (3) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMEND- firearms in interstate commerce in accord- law-abiding citizens who own guns to protect MENTS.—Chapter 44 of title 18, United States ance with the provisions of this chapter. their families or their property. This debate is Code, is amended— (i) EFFECTIVE DATE.—This section and the about law and order. It's about giving law en- (A) in the chapter analysis, by adding at amendments made by this section shall take forcement the tools they need to keep firearms the end the following: effect 180 days after the date of enactment of away from criminals, people with mental ill- ‘‘931. Regulation of firearms transfers at gun this Act. nessÐand yesÐkids. shows.’’; The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Mr. Chairman, for the last 2 days we have and Resolution 209, the gentlewoman from been debating how best to protect our chil- (B) in the first sentence of section 923(j), by New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) and a dren. We've discussed drug trafficking, por- striking ‘‘a gun show or event’’ and inserting ‘‘an event’’; and Member opposed will each control 15 nography, movies, television shows, video (d) INSPECTION AUTHORITY.—Section minutes. games, etc. And well we should. We have a 923(g)(1) is amended by adding at the end the The Chair recognizes the gentle- culture of violence that is killing children and following: woman from New York (Mrs. MCCAR- destroying our communities and it needs our ‘‘(E) Notwithstanding subparagraph (B), THY). attention now! the Secretary may enter during business Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. Tonight, we turn to guns. hours the place of business of any gun show Chairman, I yield myself 30 seconds. Every day in America, 13 young people promoter and any place where a gun show is Dear colleagues, this is an amend- held for the purposes of examining the under the age of 19 are killed in gun homi- records required by sections 923 and 931 and ment that is commonsense. It is com- cides, suicides and unintentional shootings. the inventory of licensees conducting busi- monsense for the American people. I That is one classroom of kids every day. ness at the gun show. Such entry and exam- ask the Members to listen to the That is what this debate is aboutÐnot tak- ination shall be conducted for the purposes speakers and, hopefully, be open-mind- ing guns away from law-abiding citizens. But of determining compliance with this chapter ed when they vote. about law-and-order and protecting our kids. by gun show promoters and licensees con- Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to Granted, these kids get their guns from a ducting business at the gun show and shall the gentlewoman from New Jersey not require a showing of reasonable cause or variety of sources. But increasingly, gun a warrant.’’. (Mrs. ROUKEMA). shows have become a significant source of (e) INCREASED PENALTIES FOR SERIOUS REC- Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Chairman, I guns for illegal users, including children. ORDKEEPING VIOLATIONS BY LICENSEES.—Sec- thank the gentlewoman for yielding me Why is this trend developing? tion 924(a)(3) of title 18, United States Code, this time. Because criminals, mental defectives andÐ is amended to read as follows: I am really more than a little per- yesÐkids know they can't pass the back- ‘‘(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph plexed, my colleagues, at this point in ground check that they will have to undergo if (B), any licensed dealer, licensed importer, time, after what we have just been licensed manufacturer, or licensed collector they attempt to purchase a weapon at a sport- who knowingly makes any false statement through. We have just been debating ing goods store, gun shop or from a licensed or representation with respect to the infor- for almost an hour, well, almost 2 gun dealer. But they also know that gun sell- mation required by this chapter to be kept in hours, literally what the issues are ers at gun shows do not have to run a back- the records of a person licensed under this here, and the McCarthy-Roukema ground check. chapter, or violates section 922(m) shall be amendment should be clearly under- Yes, criminals have found that they can ob- fined under this title, imprisoned not more stood at this point. But I am afraid, in tain unlimited numbers of firearms at gun than 1 year, or both. ‘‘(B) If the violation described in subpara- looking at the last amendment and the shows with ease. And because no sales graph (A) is in relation to an offense— way that happened, perhaps there are records are kept at gun shows these firearms ‘‘(i) under paragraph (1) or (3) of section still some unknowns. can be resold on the street and used in crimes 922(b), such person shall be fined under this I had been fully prepared to talk without being traced. title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or about the deficiencies of the Hyde pro- Under the Hyde language, you could have both; or posal and how we were closing that nine dealers present selling thousands of ‘‘(ii) under subsection (a)(6) or (d) of sec- loophole, but now we have a more ex- weaponsÐa virtual arsenalÐwithout a single tion 922, such person shall be fined under this treme position here that we are dis- background check. title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or It shreds the fine common sense provision both.’’. cussing and we just went through al- (f) INCREASED PENALTIES FOR VIOLATIONS most an hour of debate on it. of the Senate bill. Now with the Dingell OF CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK REQUIRE- Those of my colleagues who were lis- amendment, the McCarthy-Roukema amend- MENTS.— tening earlier know how strongly I feel ment is needed more than ever to bring law H4598 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 and order back to gun dealing and the sale of easily be more than 50 guns, and an- adopt the bill that we have before us guns. other neighbor who puts one of his fire- tonight, a bill that would close the The McCarthy/Roukema amendment re- arms on the table to exhibit it, without loophole in gun show sales to felons. It peals the Dingell loophole. It would define a even selling it, would consist a gun is well-written, well-crafted. gun show as any event where 50 or more show under this amendment. There may be a dispute that I had weapons are exhibited for sale, transfer, or ex- Unlike H.R. 2122, this amendment with some of my friends over the change and where two or more gun show ven- only requires that there be two people length of time to check on the back- dors are present. Using the number of weap- exhibiting firearms for it to be a gun ground of somebody who turns up as a ons and vendors present in determining what show. Thus, the amendment turns on a hit. But it is basically a fundamentally constitutes a gun show is the best way to gathering of three friends who bring sound way to close this loophole. And close the loophole. Any event meeting the their collections to show one another. the McCarthy amendment, on the standard would require the vendor to perform Where one friend trades one of his fire- other hand, does not just close the a background check on the purchaser before arms with a friend at no cost, with no loophole. It closes the gun show. the sale or transfer is complete. money exchanging hands, it turns that That is not what we are here tonight My colleagues, the choice is clear. Support into a gun show. about. We are here to protect kids. We the McCarthy amendment or vote to maintain Under the McCarthy-Roukema are clear to close the loophole in the a dangerous status quo where hundreds of amendment, before these friends could law. And we are here to make it cer- thousands of weapons are sold to thousands trade guns with one another, they tain that felons do not buy guns. of buyers without a single background check would have to have a licensed dealer Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance for criminal record or mental illness. run a background check on themselves of my time. Mrs. MCCARTHY. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. Chairman, the vast majority of people and transfer them the firearm or fire- yield 15 seconds to the gentleman from who purchase guns at gun shows are respon- arms for them. Michigan (Mr. CONYERS). sible, law abiding citizens. But increasingly, The McCarthy-Roukema amendment only allows licensed dealers to conduct Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I say many are not. to the gentleman from Florida (Mr. Columbine student Eric Harris illegally ob- background checks at gun shows. Since gun shows are places where non-dealers MCCOLLUM), page one of the McCarthy tained the TEC±9 assault weapon used in the amendment: ‘‘ ‘Gun show’ is a term at Littleton tragedy through a gun show. Okla- go to exhibit their collections, this re- quirement will so burden gun shows which 50 or more firearms are offered homa City bombers Timothy McVeigh and sales that I doubt that many gun shows or exhibited for sale and which there Terry Nichols sold over $60,000 in stolen would ever be held. are two or more gun show vendors.’’ weapons at gun shows to finance the killing of We are not here today to put gun How could that be a yard sale? 168 innocent men, women, and children. shows out of business. We are here Mrs. MCCARTHY. Mr. Chairman, I The time is now to close the gun show loop- today to stop people who are violent yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman hole and make private dealers follow the same felons, criminals, from being able to from New York (Mrs. LOWEY) my long- law as federally licensed firearms dealers. buy guns at gun shows. time friend. This is about law and orderÐit is not about The McCarthy amendment is so Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Chairman, we have taking away the rights of the law abiding to overbroad that it would require gun an opportunity tonight to save lives. own guns. show promoters to keep records on December 7, 1993. The gentlewoman Support the McCarthy/Roukema amend- every patron at the gun show who law- from New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) will ment. fully brings a firearm with them and not forget that day. The families of the And I again must commend Mrs. McCarthy shows it to some other person even if six dead, the 19 wounded will not forget who has used her tragedy to dedicate herself they are not a vendor with a table or that day. Eight weeks ago, 12 students to doing what she can to protect others from booth at a show. and a teacher were killed at Columbine suffering the personal trauma and grief that Why? Because under this amend- High School. she has had to hear when her husbands life ment, gun show promoters must reg- Tonight we are finally considering was taken and her son permanently physically ister anyone who merely exhibits a legislation to protect our families and disabled by a man who criminally obtained the firearm to another person even if they our children from guns. The American guns. I respectfully thank God for her commit- are not a vendor with a table or a people have turned to us for leadership. ment to making America a better place. booth at a show or be subject to crimi- And tonight, my colleagues, we are Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I nal punishment. It is unfair to subject going to see if this House has the cour- rise to claim the time in opposition. gun show promoters to a risk they sim- age to answer that call and turn its The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ply cannot control. back on the NRA. from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) will con- The McCarthy-Roukema amendment Everywhere I go in my district, at trol 15 minutes. is so overbroad that it requires gun the supermarket, at neighborhood Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I show promoters to give notice to each events, mothers come up to me, chil- yield myself such time as I may con- person who attends a gun show of the dren in hand, and ask me, ‘‘What are sume. requirements of her amendment or face we going to to do to stop this vio- Mr. Chairman, I must reluctantly criminal punishment. lence?’’ ‘‘What are we doing to stop the disagree with my good friend from New The McCarthy-Roukema will have guns flowing in our schools and onto Jersey (Mrs. ROUKEMA) on her amend- the effect of ending most gun shows. our streets?’’ ment with the gentlewoman from New The risk of criminal punishment for I challenge anyone in this House to York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) tonight. failure to comply with all of the new look one of those mothers in the eye This amendment is similar to the requirements will simply be too great that came to us just yesterday talking Lautenberg amendment, which was an for anybody to take the risk of running to us about their children, their hus- amendment to a bill in the other body. a gun show. band, there was a young girl there who It is vague. It is overbroad. And it may It is wrong to put gun shows, in my was wounded 13 times, let us look her very well put gun shows out of business judgment, at an end. Although the in- in the eye and tell her that this is more if it is passed or adopted. tentions may be perfectly good, it is important to avoid inconveniencing a The amendment to H.R. 2122 would wrong to put them at an end by regu- handful of gun buyers than it is to pro- amend it to define a ‘‘gun show’’ as any lating them to death. tect her child. event at which 50 or more firearms are H.R. 2122, the underlying bill, even as I would like to remind my colleagues offered or exhibited and at which two amended, strikes, in my judgment, the that, in the first 15 minutes of the in- or more persons exhibiting a firearm right balance between protecting our stant check, 75 percent of the people are present. communities from felons who try to are cleared. In the next couple of Unlike the underlying bill, H.R. 2122, buy firearms at gun shows and pro- hours, it goes up to 90 percent. it does not specify what types of events tecting the rights of law-abiding citi- So we are talking about inconven- fall within the definition. So a commu- zens to keep and bear arms. iencing a couple of people to check nity yard sale where one person is sell- So I urge all of my colleagues to de- their record to be sure that we save ing his firearm collection, which could feat this amendment. I urge them to lives. June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4599 We know that this is not going to tate sale, for example, at which as few all. It is everyone. It is children’s lives solve all our problems. We have to ad- as 50 firearms, which is not that many at stake. dress the whole culture of violence in for some collectors of historical fire- Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. this country. But tonight we have to arms and at which two or more show Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- begin, we have to respond, we have to up, not one gun has to be sold. There tlewoman from Connecticut (Ms. act. We have to pass the McCarthy can be a discussion of a sale, a discus- DELAURO). amendment. sion of a transfer, and all of a sudden, Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Chairman, I Closing this loophole will make a bingo, in Washington magic, you have thank the courageous gentlewoman critical difference in protecting our an estate auction with two people dis- from New York for yielding me this children. cussing the transfer of as few as one of time. I listened to a colleague of ours b 0020 50 firearms becoming subject to the on television this morning say that we whole range of paperwork burden, should not close the gun show loophole Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I criminal liability, civil liability, gun because it would create too much pa- yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from information registry and gun tax that perwork, it would be an inconvenience. Georgia (Mr. BARR), a member of the is provided in the McCarthy-Lauten- An inconvenience? Tell that to the par- committee. berg amendment. Only in Washington ents of a murdered child. Talk to them Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, could people with a straight face say about the inconvenience of paperwork. I thank the gentleman from Florida for that that is an improvement over Din- Tell them about the annoyance of wait- yielding me this time. For those who gell. The same people only in Wash- ing 3 days for a gun, and one gun that voted for the prior amendment offered ington that would tell us with a would be kept out of the hands of a by the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. straight face that an instant back- criminal. DINGELL), the choice on the current ground check can take up to 6 days. Wake up, Congress. Thirteen children amendment before this body, and that The same people that only in Wash- a day are killed by guns in this coun- is the McCarthy-Lautenberg amend- ington can tell us with a straight face try. And we do not want people to be ment, could not be clearer. There is no that $200 million to buy an instant inconvenienced? I ask you tonight to way that you could support the Dingell background check system gets us a vote with your heart. Compare the amendment and support the McCarthy- system that takes up to 6 days and yet hardship. I ask you to vote for the Lautenberg amendment. They are like the other side says, ‘‘Oh, that’s just a McCarthy amendment. night and day. slight inconvenience.’’ The McCarthy- Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. Let us look at some of the dif- Lautenberg amendment is not Lauten- Chairman, I yield such time as he may ferences. The McCarthy-Lautenberg berg Lite, it is Lautenberg Heavy, and consume to the gentleman from Cali- amendment is typical Washington, be- for those who supported the Dingell fornia (Mr. CAMPBELL). cause only in Washington could the amendment, you have to vote against (Mr. CAMPBELL asked and was taxpayers of this country submit over the McCarthy-Lautenberg amendment. given permission to revise and extend $200 million of their money for the de- I urge its strong defeat. his remarks.) velopment of an instant background PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Chairman, I check, tell their legislators, that is Mr. LANTOS. Mr. Chairman, I have a rise in support of the amendment. this body and the Senate, that we are parliamentary inquiry. Mr. Chairman, I support the McCarthy-Rou- in support of and want you to institute The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will kema substitute. The 3-day delay is essential an instant background check, and wind state it. to deter the purchase of a weapon in hasteÐ up with a background check that is Mr. LANTOS. Who is Mr. Lauten- the purchase of a weapon to settle an argu- called instant but can take up to 6 berg? ment, or in the heat of passion. days. Only in Washington does $200 The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has I understand many disagree on the wisdom million get you an instant background alluded to sponsorship of a similar pro- of possessing a firearm. Many point to statis- check that can take up to 6 days. That vision in the Senate, which is permis- tics showing a much greater risk of an acci- date of 3 working days, which can bal- sible under the rules. dental misuse of a firearm in a home than that loon on a holiday weekend, which is Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. firearm ever being used to defend against an very popular for gun shows, into 6 days Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- intruder. Others say it is their choice to make, was not chosen at random. Three days tlewoman from Connecticut (Mrs. and I understand that. The right to make that was chosen because it would put gun JOHNSON). choice, however, is not the right to make the shows out of business, yet it appears to Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut. Mr. choice precipitously. Think carefully about your be benign. Therein lies much of the Chairman, this House has invested mil- choice to possess a firearm. Think it out in ad- danger of the McCarthy-Lautenberg lions of dollars in establishing a na- vance. Don't make this kind of judgment in the amendment. It appears to be benign tional background check system, and it midst of anger, or to settle a domestic dispute. but it is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The works. We have seen it work. It keeps The 3-day delay helps accomplish this much paperwork which the gentleman from guns out of the hands of criminals, of more than would an instantaneous check. Florida has already alluded to would rapists, of abusers. That is a good Some of those who oppose the 3-day delay literally cripple gun show promoters, thing. The only thing we are talking also support a delay to be imposed on a gun show organizers and gun show own- about here tonight is whether we woman who chooses to have an abortionÐas ers. They would subject themselves to should use that check system not only was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in criminal liability for an inadvertent when guns are sold by dealers but when Planned Parenthood versus Casey. Just as failure to comply with the massive pa- guns are sold at gun fairs. The only the Supreme Court recognized that a delay on perwork burdens which will be laid issue is whether it should cover all gun exercising what they held to be a constitu- upon them by none other than the Sec- fair transactions or some gun fair tional right was permissible in that context, so retary of the Treasury. transactions. also, in my view, would a 3-day delay on exer- One of the most common terms, one I would say to my friend from Geor- cising a right to purchase a firearm be held of the most common references, some gia, only in this House could ‘‘all’’ be constitutional. A 3-day delay on the purchase of the most common language which defined as ‘‘some.’’ I just wanted to de- of a firearm is wise, and it is constitutional. permeates the McCarthy-Lautenberg fine ‘‘all’’ as ‘‘all.’’ It should cover all Today, this view failed in the vote on the amendment before this body refers to transactions at gun fairs. Where 10 ven- Dingell substitute. With one change in vote, powers to regulate given to the Sec- dors get together, clearly that is a gun however, and the six Members who had to be retary of the Treasury and, by delega- fair. Why when nine get together, when absent tonight, voting tomorrow, we can re- tion, ATF. thousands of guns are sold, is it not a verse this result. Tomorrow, we will vote on The gentleman from Florida also al- gun fair? Why when eight get together the substitute by Congressman CONYERS and luded to the fact that under the very is it not a gun fair? Why when seven, myself. It will enact in our House what has al- broad definitions of the McCarthy-Lau- when six, when five, when four? Surely ready passed the Senate. We have one more tenberg amendment, a gun show could when two vendors get together, they chance to do what is right, what is constitu- be a yard sale or an estate sale, an es- ought to have background checks. It is tional, what is safe. H4600 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999

Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. We talked about how she felt about guns, and it does not prohibit law-abid- Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- those events, and she told me that she ing individuals from purchasing guns. tleman from Delaware (Mr. CASTLE). is angry, that they took away her free- The McCarthy amendment is a gun b 0030 dom, and that she is frightened when safety provision which continues the she walks by that park. And I said, instant check system before one pur- Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, I thank what should we do? And she said, it chases a gun. McCarthy says that if the gentlewoman for yielding me this does not make any sense to pass an- one wants to purchase a gun, we all fol- time, and for all she has done. other law that is just going to be bro- low the same rules. We are all subject Let me just try to run through this, ken. to the same instant background check. what I have tried to glean from this I asked her about guns. What did it The McCarthy amendment says, discussion. Ninety percent or so of the make her feel about guns? She said she whether I purchase my gun at K-Mart people that go in to buy a gun will go was not afraid about being shot, she or at the weekend gun show, I must be through the instant background check, was afraid that they were going to rape treated the same. I must follow the and they will be cleared right away. her, and that the gun gave them power same instant check system. No excep- That is probably everybody in this over her. She could outrun those kids, tions, no excuses, no special treatment room. That probably leaves 10 percent. What do we know about those 10 per- she thought, but she could not outrun for people who purchase guns at gun cent? Those 10 percent probably have a bullet. shows. some kind of an arrest on their record. Then, when she went to the arraign- The McCarthy amendment does not That is what shows up at that instant ment, one of the boy’s parents showed take away any rights. It does not pre- check. up, and he was the one without a vent the sale of any guns. It only re- Now, what do we know after that? We record. The other two boys’ parents did quires that we all play by the same do not know anything after that if we not even bother to show up at the ar- rules. assume the Dingell amendment which raignment, and she felt sorry for them, Earlier tonight I offered an amend- has just passed, which is a 24-hour pe- but she did not want them to be able to ment in the motion to recommit on the riod, but they may be convicted felons assault someone else. juvenile justice bill that did not con- is what we know. But we will not know Again, I asked her, how did this tain any gun provisions. I am not in- that for sure under this particular leg- make you feel about guns? She said, terested in, and I will not vote to take islation, because most gun shows take well, my dad has a gun, and I agree away your guns. I will not try to con- place on the weekend, and the people with the bumper sticker that says, trol your guns. I want to make sure who want to buy the guns are going to when they take away our guns, only that every gun purchaser is treated the go in there, if they are convicted fel- the criminals are going to have guns. same, and that is why I am going to ons, on a Friday night or a Saturday. But, she said, you will not solve this vote for the McCarthy amendment. I We have, in a way, sort of concocted a problem with more laws. She said, you will vote to make sure that all prospec- felon holiday, if you will; a period of have the power to make a law, but it tive gun purchasers must follow the time where, for a little bit in the begin- will be broken every day, and I will not same instant check system. No excep- ning of the weekend, so they can get feel any more safe, she said, because I tions, no excuses, no special treatment. the gun and get out before the 24 hours am not going to be any more safe. She With so many gun owners and hunt- is over, and they can go in and pur- said, you cannot make a law that will ers in my district, the last vote and chase a gun. make those parents care enough to this vote are very tough votes for me Why can they do that? Because the show up at an arraignment to do some- politically. But I say to my colleagues, courts are not open. The courts are cer- thing about their kids. this is the right vote. I urge my col- tainly not open in Georgetown, Dover, This extraordinary young lady hap- leagues to do the right thing. Vote for or New Castle County, Delaware. That pens to be my niece, and I am really the McCarthy amendment. is the problem. proud of her. She is brave and compas- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman I think we need to pass the McCarthy sionate, and she is wise, and we ought from Florida has 4 minutes remaining; bill, really close the loopholes so that to listen to her words. She understands the gentlewoman from New York has the felons will not have guns. Vote for more than most of us in this room un- 51⁄2 minutes remaining. the McCarthy-Roukema amendment. derstand that while we have the power Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman to pass laws, it takes families to solve Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- from Florida (Mr. MCCOLLUM) has 61⁄2 this problem, families that care. Just tlewoman from Maryland (Mrs. minutes remaining. The gentlewoman as more gun laws would not have saved MORELLA). from New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) has a single child in Littleton, more gun (Mrs. MORELLA asked and was given 71⁄2 remaining. laws would not have prevented these permission to revise and extend her re- Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I thugs from confronting my niece. marks.) yield 31⁄2 minutes to the gentleman But I say to my colleagues, enforcing Mrs. MORELLA. Mr. Chairman, we from Montana (Mr. HILL). the existing laws would have, because I passed the Brady Bill 5 years ago, and Mr. HILL. Mr. Chairman, I thank the learned tonight from the arresting offi- it has worked. What we have tonight is gentleman for the time. cer that one of these young thugs was a loophole that we must close in the Mr. Chairman, about 3 weeks ago a already on probation for brandishing a Brady Bill, and the McCarthy-Rou- young Senate staffer was coming home gun. kema amendment will do that. at night and decided to cross one of the Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. I have a quote from a gun dealer, a Capitol Hill parks, and partway Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- gun dealer who said, and he was quoted through that park, she was confronted tleman from Michigan (Mr. STUPAK), a in the newspaper, a criminal could by three young men, and she started to very courageous police officer. come here to a gun show and go booth run away. But one of the men bran- Mr. STUPAK. Mr. Chairman, I thank to booth until he finds an individual to dished a handgun, so she stopped. They the gentlewoman from New York for sell him a gun with no questions asked, wanted money. She felt sorry for them, yielding me this time. unquote. but she did not have any money. In Mr. Chairman, as my colleagues Mr. Chairman, it just makes no sense fact, she said to me, I wish I had some know, I am a former police officer, I that any person can today walk into a money to give them. am a member of the NRA, and I am a gun show, make a purchase without One of the men started to search her, lifelong gun owner. My wife and my any precautions whatsoever. Moreover, but he did not want to stop with just a two sons own guns. We, Mr. Chairman, illegal purchasers know, they know search, but for some reason or another are responsible gun owners who have that they can go to a gun show without he did, and she got away. Our Capitol taken guns safety courses and educated worrying about being denied a pur- Police rescued her, and they eventually our children about how to operate and chase. We have some statistics. apprehended them that night, these respect firearms. An Illinois State Police study dem- three young men. They were all mi- The McCarthy amendment is not gun onstrated that 25 percent of illegally nors; two of them had rap sheets. control. It does not take away any trafficked firearms used in crimes June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4601 originate at gun shows. Ironically, in in the choices that we make and the Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Florida, an inmate escaping from de- priorities we set and the value that we Chairman, I yield such time as he may tention stopped at a gun show to make place on our children. consume to the gentleman from Wash- a purchase while fleeing law enforce- Until we realize that, we are going to ington (Mr. MCDERMOTT). ment authorities. No background pass a lot of legislative chaff designed (Mr. MCDERMOTT asked and was check, no waiting period. Let us close to stuff the void that must be filled given permission to revise and extend that loophole to make our country with love, values, and personal respon- his remarks.) safer for all citizenry. sibility. Mr. McDERMOTT. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I I urge Members to vote no on this rise in support of the McCarthy amend- yield 21⁄2 minutes to the gentleman amendment. ment that might have saved the lives from South Dakota (Mr. THUNE). Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. of Officers Gibson and Chestnut. Mr. THUNE. Mr. Chairman, on Au- Chairman, I yield 30 seconds to the Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. gust 2 in 1876, Jack McCall walked into gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- saloon number 10 in Deadwood, South PASCRELL). tleman from Chicago, Illinois (Mr. Dakota, and brutally murdered Wild Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Chairman, I BLAGOJEVICH.) Bill Hickok. Now, if there had been thank my good friend for yielding time Mr. BLAGOJEVICH. Mr. Chairman, background checks at the time, they to me. the gentleman from South Dakota just probably would have discovered that I stand with the major police organi- moments ago said two things that I Jack McCall was a pretty unsavory zations of the United States of America agree with regarding gun shows. Num- character. But I do not think it would for America’s children. That is where I ber one, most people involved in gun have prevented him from getting the stand. That is where I stand. shows are law-abiding citizens. I think gun with which he committed the mur- How many children are still alive be- that is true. Number two, he said that der, because he had criminal intent. cause of safety caps on medicine bot- criminals can always get guns. He is Well, that was the wild, wild West. tles? How many children are still alive right about that, they can go to gun This is the 1990s. Times have changed. because of childproof cigarette light- shows to get guns. We have background checks, but some ers? Is this government intervention? In fact, 54,000 guns were confiscated things have not changed. No, it saves lives. That is what it is all last year in crimes that came from gun about. shows, in the 5,200 gun shows we had b 1240 I urge my colleagues to see through across the country. The reason is very Bad people do bad things. Criminals the myths, put aside the partisan rhet- simple, the Brady law that simply asks will get guns. That is fact number one. oric, and do what is right: Vote for the whether or not you are a convicted Fact number two is accidents hap- McCarthy amendment. That is what we felon or that you are a proscribed per- pen. should be doing. son under the law, they want to find Fact number three is Congress can- Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. out whether you have violated the law, not change fact number one or fact Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- we do a background check. The Brady number two. tleman from Boston, Massachusetts law has worked. Four hundred thou- I grew up in a culture in my State of (Mr. TIERNEY). sand criminals have not gotten guns. South Dakota where at the age of 12 I Mr. TIERNEY. Mr. Chairman, I We want to apply that to gun shows started hunting and learned the re- thank the gentlewoman from New and ask the same questions. sponsible use of firearms. I, too, have York for yielding time to me. It is not against hunters, it is not young children, 12 and 9 years old. I am Mr. Chairman, all of the materials we against law-abiding citizens, it is not profoundly and personally committed are looking at this evening, the under- against NRA members, unless you are to see that the things that happened in lying bill, H.R. 2122, the Dingell amend- a criminal. That is what this is all Littleton, Colorado, do not happen in ment, the McCarthy amendment, all about. my home State of South Dakota or collectively apparently have some sort Let us close this loophole. Under the anywhere else in America. of broad support for the prospect that previous amendment, nine vendors can But I have to tell the Members, I we need a background check and a get together and sell thousands of think for people here this evening, gun waiting period. What we are arguing guns, literally, with no questions shows are getting a bad name. I don’t about here is time, the amount of time asked. know how many have ever been to a for that. Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. gun show. I would like to see a show of We all apparently agree on the pur- Chairman, I yield such time as she may hands. They are normal people. They pose of that, is to keep guns out of the consume to the gentlewoman from New are not villains. They are people like hands of the wrong people, because York (Ms. SLAUGHTER). the Members and me. They go there be- 17,000 of those wrong people presum- (Ms. SLAUGHTER asked and was cause they are collectors, they are law- ably would have gotten their hands on given permission to revise and extend abiding citizens. guns if we in fact had the Dingell reso- her remarks.) What we are trying to do here to- lution as law, because that is what the Ms. SLAUGHTER. Mr. Chairman, I night is to make sure we protect the statistics and the facts tell us, that rise in strong support of the pending rights of law-biding citizens and crack that many people, with the Dingell amendment because I simply cannot down on criminals. We had an oppor- provision in effect, still would have understand how a House of people who tunity to vote on legislation earlier been felons, the wrong kind of people, are willing to wait 4 days for dry clean- today that would do that. who would have gotten guns. ing cannot wait for a gun. We are addressing the cultural influ- We can presume that if they went in ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN ences that are impacting this issue, but under the Dingell provision and bought The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would re- we should not go so far as to prevent that gun on a Saturday or Friday quest all Members not to embellish law-abiding citizens from having access night, the background check of 24 simple unanimous consent requests. to firearms. We cannot take every gun, hours would not have been effective, Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. every knife, every nail, every propane and they would have been out there Chairman, I yield such time as she may tank, and every potential weapon away with their gun causing damage. consume to the gentlewoman from from every person in America because In 1996, 4,643 young people were in- California (Ms. LOFGREN). we are afraid that somewhere, some- jured and 2,866 were murdered. We can (Ms. LOFGREN asked and was given how, someone is going to get hurt. presume that some of them might have permission to revise and extend her re- This is not the answer. More laws are been in that circumstance, and we marks.) not the answer. The answers are found ought to not worry about a little in- Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in the human heart. They are found in convenience, we ought to worry about in favor of the McCarthy-Roukema the American home. They are found in the comments this brave women and amendment to save America’s children. the pews of our churches and around the other people in America are saying, Mr. Chairman, it is time for this House to dinner tables at night. They are found protect our children. come together on a bipartisan basis and do H4602 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 17, 1999 what the parents of America expect us to do, Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. consume to the gentlewoman from what they have hoped we would do since the Chairman, I yield such time as she may California (Ms. PELOSI). moment a high school in Colorado became a consume to the gentlewoman from Mis- (Ms. PELOSI asked and was given killing field. souri (Ms. MCCARTHY). permission to revise and extend her re- We are charged by the friends and neigh- (Ms. MCCARTHY of Missouri asked marks.) bors and parents who elected us to this cham- and was given permission to revise and Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Chairman, I rise in ber to protect this nation's children. extend her remarks.) strong support of the McCarthy amend- Some people in America, and in this Cham- Ms. MCCARTHY of Missouri. Mr. ment, and commend the gentlewoman ber, would have us enact stronger measures Chairman, I rise in support of the for her extraordinary leadership. than those embodied in this amendment. amendment. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong support But these are the gun child safety measures Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the of the McCarthy amendment that will prevent the Senate was able to approve. Let us at amendment offered by the gentlewoman from gun violence, save the lives of our children, least do this much, pass what the Senate New York (4th District). This amendment will and protect the safety of our families and com- agreed upon. require individuals who wish to purchase a munities. The tragic shootings in Littleton, Col- If we do this much, we will not only take a firearm at a gun show to submit to a back- orado have provided Congress with a renewed step toward meeting our obligation to the par- ground check before they are able to complete opportunity to achieve these goals. In re- ents of this nation. By making these protec- their gun purchase, thus extending additional sponse, the other chamber approved gun con- tions the law of the land, we will also be mak- oversight to Public Law Number 103±159, the trol legislation that would require gun safety ing history. We will make history when we listen to the Brady Act. locks, ban importation of high-capacity ammu- parents of America and prefer the safety of Mr. Chairman, when I was a teacher, we nition clips, and require gun show background children over the special interests, teeming in never had to worry about kids bringing guns checks. While Congress should go farther, the Capitol and fighting against sensible gun into schools, and it shouldn't be happening these changes represent real progress. At the safety measures. today. We must keep guns out of the hands very least, House action should match this Can't we do this much for the mothers and of our children. A background check provides progress and pass these measures to fathers of our country? one more means to protect our children from strengthen our gun control laws. As a mother of two school-aged children, I the irresponsible use of firearms. Our youth Unfortunately, we debated some amend- understand the depth of feeling of other par- must be taught that guns are dangerous and ments that undermine progress and some that ents. When my kids, or yours, go off to school, that inappropriate or unsafe use of them has would inexcusably weaken existing gun control we don't want to think, even for a moment, consequences. We must ensure that it is not laws. The Dingell gun show amendment weak- that we might never see them again, because possible for our youth to buy a gun illegally, ens current law by reducing the maximum some boy brought a semi-automatic to class nor use a gun without the supervision of their time allocated for background checks by li- and opened fire. We know all too well, be- parents. censed dealers operating at gun shows from cause of what happened in schools from Colo- Most law-abiding gun buyers are not incon- three business days to 24 hours. If this shorter rado, to Kentucky, to Oregon, that this is no venienced by the current 3-day approval pe- waiting period becomes law, the Justice De- exaggeration. riod at gun stores or at gun shows. The FBI's partment reports that of those now denied I'm the first to concede that these common Brady Instant Check System is up and running guns, 40 percent would obtain a gun. For Sat- sense gun measures are not the whole an- 7 days a week, and about 73% of background urday background checks, this 24 hour rule swer. But they can and will make a difference. checks on potential gun buyers result in an would preclude 60 percent of current denials. We know that if the boys who murdered immediate response by the FBI that the sale Let's not pass laws that encourage convicted those students in Colorado had not been able may proceed. For every 100 requests for felons to purchase guns on Saturdays and to obtain the weapons they did, the slaughter background checks on potential gun pur- which reduce Saturday background check de- would not have happened. chases, 95 are answered within 2 hours. This nial rates 60 percent. For every law there will be violators. No sys- amendment does not seek to prevent respon- The impact of easy access to guns is dev- tem is perfect. But we know that the existing sible adults from purchasing guns for sports, astating. According to the Children's Defense Brady bill has kept thousands and thousands or for personal protection. This amendment Fund, each and every day gunfire in America of ineligible persons from purchasing weap- would guarantee no sale to those who should takes the lives of nearly 13 children. In 1996, onsÐit stopped felons from purchasing or not be approved. It will reduce the incidence gunfire killed 4,643 infants, children, and possessing such instruments of destruction. of youngsters obtaining firearms. It will help teens. Between 1979 and 1996, firearms If we can decrease the number of guns ensure that guns do not get into the hands of wounded 375,000 children and teens and available to troubled kids, it can only help. criminals or into the hands of unsupervised killed more than 75,000. We must take action For those who say it's not worth it, unless youth. The American people support these to protect our children. it's 100%, ask yourself, would you feel that provisions to require background checks for When adults have easy access to guns, ac- way if it was your teenager who came face to cess by children often follows. This access to face with a disturbed man with a gun bought gun purchases made at gun shows, pawn firearms, heightens the real problems of our at a gun show and loaded up with a high ca- shops, or flea markets by an overwhelming adolescents and youth violence. It is important pacity clip? If you could prevent that, wouldn't 77%. This support is solid in rural, suburban, to note that guns remain the most common you do it? and metropolitan areas across our nation. Next Sunday is Father's Day. I can't help Mr. Chairman, I believe safe schools are too method of suicide for children. Guns bring fi- but think tonight about the teacher, a father, important. I support this amendment and also nality to violence and increase its deadly toll. who escorted students to safety at the cost of the Democratic substitute offered by the gen- The NRA claims America has too many gun his life in the Columbine Massacre. I can't tleman from Michigan, Ranking Member of the laws and existing laws are not enforced. They help but think of the mothers and fathers who Judiciary Committee. I urge my colleagues will are wrong. Gun control laws are enforced. To- learned later that day that the son or daughter join me in supporting these amendments to day's USA Today reports that enforcement of they loved more than life itself had been killed protect our children and reduce gun violence the Brady gun control law has blocked the that day. in America. Thank you. sale of more than 400,000 illegal gun sales. While some of us may celebrate Father's Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues to sup- Day this weekend, others will most certainly Chairman, I yield such time as she may port the McCarthy amendment. Gun control not celebrate, because they hurt so badly. consume to the gentlewoman from laws are not problem. The problem is gun Before we leave these chambers this Fa- Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). control loopholes. Let's close the loopholes. ther's Day weekend, let us give our friends (Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas asked In closing, I wish to thank Congresswoman and neighbors who sent us here something and was given permission to revise and MCCARTHY for her extraordinary leadership to that says this tragic loss of life, of young and extend her remarks). save the lives of America's children. old, was not in vain. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. Let us make these moderate, common- Chairman, I rise in support of the Chairman, I yield such time as she may sense gun safety measures the law of the McCarthy amendment and supporting consume to the gentlewoman from land. the Conyers, taking the guns out of the Michigan (Ms. KILPATRICK). Then let us return to our districts with pride hands of criminals. (Ms. KILPATRICK asked and was that we have made a good start on a difficult Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. given permission to revise and extend problem. Chairman, I yield such time as she may her remarks.) June 17, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H4603 Mrs. KILPATRICK. Mr. Chairman, I Mrs. CLAYTON. Mr. Chairman, I also and our children should be safe in their rise to save America’s children. rise in support of the McCarthy amend- school, their neighborhoods and homes. Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. ment to save the lives of children and Increased gun safety measures could save Chairman, I yield such time as she may take the guns out of the hands of the lives of thousands of young people every consume to the gentlewoman from Ha- criminals. year, and I believe that regardless of political waii (Mrs. MINK). Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. agendas, we have to put our children first. Un- (Mrs. MINK of Hawaii asked and was Chairman, I yield such time as she may fortunately, the Republican gun control or the given permission to revise and extend consume to the gentlewoman from Dingle legislation will not close the gaping her remarks.) California (Ms. MILLENDER-MCDonald). loopholes in our gun laws and will not make Mrs. MINK of Hawaii. Mr. Chairman, (Ms. MILLENDER-MCDONALD asked our children any safer. on behalf of the women who love their and was given permission to revise and We have heard all the statistics. We know children, I rise in support of the extend her remarks.) that the American people overwhelmingly sup- McCarthy amendment. Ms. MILLENDER-MCDONALD. Mr. port these reforms. We know how many peo- I rise, Mr. Chairman, to express my support Chairman, I rise in support of the ple have died from gun violence in this coun- to the passage of the McCarthy-Roukema- McCarthy-Roukema amendment, in try. However, sometimes I think that oppo- Blagojevich Amendment to H.R. 2122, the support of real gun safety for our chil- Mandatory Gun Show Background Check Act. nents of gun safety are no longer affected by dren. these statistics, because they have heard The McCarthy-Roukema-Blagojevich Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. them over and over againÐbut Mr. Speaker, Amendment ensures complete and accurate Chairman, I yield such time as she may this is not about statistics. background checks at gun shows. The gun consume to the gentlewoman from Illi- This is about livesÐthe lives of the people show loophole which currently exists makes nois (Ms. SCHAKOWSKY). firearms immediately accessible to children, (Ms. SCHAKOWSKY asked and was who were killed because there were no safety convicted felons, and others who are not le- given permission to revise and extend locks or background checks, and the lives of gally able to purchase firearms under The Gun her remarks.) all the people who are going to be killed if we Control Act of 1968. This loophole is unac- Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Chairman, I don't pass real gun safety laws. ceptable if we intend to protect the personal rise in support of the McCarthy-Rou- Mr. Speaker, I am especially outraged at the safety of our children and loves ones. kema-Blagojevich amendment and the tactics being used to try and derail enactment The McCarthy-Roukema-Blagojevich Conyers-Campbell amendment. of sensible gun safety and gun control meas- Amendment requires a three business day pe- Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. ures. riod, rather than 72 hours, to complete Brady Chairman, I yield such time as she may That is because I resent bulliesÐI always Law instant background checks. Three busi- consume to the gentlewoman from have and I always will! ness days enable thorough background California (Ms. LEE). And I think that the NRA leaders are the checks with minimum inconvenience to the (Ms. LEE asked and was given per- bully's of all bullys! purchaser. Because most gun shows take mission to revise and extend her re- Today, I find myself fighting once again their place during the weekend, when state and marks.) threats against members of this body who local courts are closed, 72 hours is not a suffi- Ms. LEE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in sup- support sensible gun control and plugging the cient amount of time to check records for con- port of the McCarthy-Roukema amend- gun show loophole. victions. However, even with the three day ment, the Conyers-Campbell amend- Years ago, as a member of the Petaluma, waiting period, 73% of all background checks ment, and to stop the killing of our CA city council I was threatened by these are completed instantly and 95% of pur- children. same individuals who promised to post my chasers are accepted or rejected within 2 Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. name in their place of business if I voted for hours. Only 5% of cases are delayed for more Chairman, I yield such time as she may local gun control. than two hours. consume to the gentlewoman from Or- Well, let me tell you I let them know I would This amendment does not target or dis- egon (Ms. HOOLEY). be proud to be on their list, so I told them how advantage law-abiding gun owners. Rather, it (Ms. HOOLEY of Oregon asked and to spell my name W-O-O-L-S-E-Y. simply imposes the same requirements on was given permission to revise and ex- Today, I am proud to stand for the McCar- guns shows as gun stores. Sales records from tend her remarks.) thy gun legislation to keep our children safe. guns shows would be maintained in the same Ms. HOOLEY of Oregon. Mr. Chair- Any bully who wants to hold that against me way they are at gun stores. These records man, I rise in favor of the McCarthy- needs to spell my name right. W-O-O-L-S-E- would not function to monitor gun owners al- Roukema amendment to save our chil- Y! ready protected by their 2nd amendment dren. Mr. Chairman I ask unanimous consent to rights, but would instead help police trace f revise and extend my remarks in support of guns used in crimes. b 0050 the McCarthy amendment to plug gun show Gun owners and law-abiding purchasers are loopholes and protect our children! Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. further protected by the amendment's require- Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. ment that all records of approved transfers be Chairman, I yield such time as she may Chairman, I yield such time as she may destroyed within 90 days, except those re- consume to the gentlewoman from consume to the gentlewoman from tained for audit purposes. The McCarthy-Rou- California (Ms. WOOLSEY). Texas (Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON). (Ms. WOOLSEY asked and was given kema-Blagojevich Amendment forbids the FBI (Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of from using the instant check system records to permission to revise and extend her re- Texas asked and was given permission create a registry of gun owners. Even the marks.) to revise and extend her remarks.) tightened gun show definition, where 50 or Ms. WOOLSEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of more guns are being sold by 2 of or more sell- in support of the McCarthy amendment Texas. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support ers, provides an individual the freedom to sell to protect our children and to plug the of the McCarthy amendment on behalf guns at a yard sale without being considered gun show loophole. a gun show. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong support of the of all of the mothers and grandmothers I strongly urge my colleagues to support the McCarthy-Roukema-Blagojevich Amendment. of this Nation. McCarthy-Roukema-Blagojevich Amendment I am outraged that the Republican leader- Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. to H.R. 2122. Legislation which fails to seal ship has the nerve to offer the NRA's water- Chairman, I yield such time as she may the gun show loophole is useless. This impor- downed version of the Senate gun safety leg- consume to the gentlewoman from tant amendment will prevent many small and islation. California (Mrs. NAPOLITANO). large scale tragedies while simultaneously pre- We should not have to wait until there is (Mrs. NAPOLITANO asked and was serving our 2nd Amendment rights. blood on our hands to pass real legislation to given permission to revise and extend Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. make it harder for kids to get guns. her remarks.) Chairman, I yield such time as she may Our children should be worrying about hit- Mrs. NAPOLITANO. Mr. Chairman, I consume to the gentlewoman from ting their booksÐnot about getting hit by a rise in support of the McCarthy-Rou- North Carolina (Mrs. CLAYTON). bullet. kema amendment to plug gun show (Mrs. CLAYTON asked and was given Our children should know that ``Gunsmoke'' sales. permission to revise and extend her re- is an old TV rerun, and not a reality for many Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. marks.) of them. Chairman, I yield such time as she may