LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1725

OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Thursday, 19 November 2020

The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.

1726 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P.

IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H., J.P.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1727

MEMBERS ABSENT:

THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG

THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.

PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG

DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN

THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN

THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN

THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN

THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN

DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN

THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P.

1728 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI

THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU

THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO

THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

PUBLIC OFFICER ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE FRANK CHAN FAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING

CLERK IN ATTENDANCE:

MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1729

MEMBERS' MOTIONS

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This Council continues the debate on the motion with no legislative effect. Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, please speak.

MOTION ON "ALLEVIATING ROAD TRAFFIC CONGESTION"

Continuation of debate on motion which was moved on 18 November 2020

MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Good morning, President. Today I continue discussing the motion on "Alleviating road traffic congestion", the debate on which was started at yesterday's meeting. In fact, the biggest problem faced by Hong Kong people, especially during peak hours, is that it is really difficult to commute by various means of transport. I drive from New Territories West to Admiralty every day. The traffic is very heavy during peak hours and sometimes I feel very upset. Of course, citizens taking public transport are even more upset. Under the pandemic at present, in particular, everyone is a little worried. The more people they ride with, the more worried they are. Therefore, in addition to wasting the time and life of all citizens in the city, traffic congestion causes unrest among them too. President, as traffic congestion has an impact on social harmony, I hope that the Secretary will listen to Members' opinions in this regard and improve the current traffic situation as soon as possible.

At present, the essential means of public transport in Hong Kong are railways. Mr LUK Chung-hung raised the issue yesterday, querying whether the public transport policy of 'according priority to railway' is the best. However, in places with little land but many people, mass transport is undeniably the most efficient mode. But can this policy be foolproof? Yesterday I heard the Secretary say that Hong Kong's railway is the world's number one in terms of efficiency. Should that be the case, there would not be frequent signal system failures or track problems. These problems could paralyse the entire territory. Such situation did happen at the East Rail, which paralysed the traffic all over Hong Kong.

Regarding the public transport policy of 'according priority to railway", I find it most important to connect all transport networks. Yesterday, many colleagues criticized the Government's failure to build the Northern Link as it had 1730 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 promised. This is also important. Furthermore, it was five to six years ago when the Government decided to build the Tuen Mun South Extension. Such efficiency and speed will not help solve the current problems faced by people in the availability and crowdedness of public transport. I hope that the Secretary will make vigorous improvements in this area to honour the Government's promises as soon as possible to improve the entire transport network for the public to commute more easily.

Of course, apart from improving the network, there is another problem with railway services. One or two million people take the railway during peak hours every day. But quite often they cannot board the train immediately. More serious is the situation at the Light Rail in Yuen Long and Tuen Mun. Everyone knows that citizens cannot board the train soon when standing on an open platform. They have to wait for a couple of trains before they can board one. I often go there with colleagues from the Transport Department to inspect the situation, and they also notice these problems.

When it comes to the traffic demand arising from population development, West Rail is facing a very severe situation. I want to discuss with the Secretary about the situation of Yuen Long and Tuen Mun, the district in which I live. The current population of the district is about 1.1 million, but it will rise to 1.6 million in the next two decades, seeing an increase of about 400 000. About the population development there, we have been told that when the relevant railway network is completed, the passenger capacity will increase by 30%. There will not be any problem. If the population increases by 40% only, and if most of the residents do not commute to work outside the district, there will be no problem, of course. However, if most of these residents have relocated to Yuen Long or Tuen Mun from Hong Kong Island or Kowloon, will there be any problem, Secretary? Some people have always lived or worked on Hong Kong Island or in Kowloon. After moving to Yuen Long or Tuen Mun, they will have to commute between the areas to work. Under such circumstances, the Bureau has made some hypothetical claims that cannot convince the public. They really fail to explain why people's inability to board the train when travelling by rail can be solved by increasing the passenger capacity. We have never believed this saying. Therefore, we think that the authorities are doing a poor job in transport services as the increase in passenger capacity of the railway does not match the population growth at all.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1731

Another point I want to talk about is the auxiliary bus service of the MTR. With the introduction of railways, many existing auxiliary bus services have also been reduced, resulting in great restrictions on "point-to-point" bus services. Some citizens tell me that they often need to wait for two buses before boarding because of such restrictions. This is also an aspect in which the public believes that the authorities have not done enough. What can be done to improve the situation? I mentioned planning just now. If too many people are squeezed at one place for a long time, such as Yuen Long and Tuen Mun, where the population will increase by 400 000, the current traffic situation can never be solved because the means of transport and roads cannot be increased. Therefore, I think planning is the most important consideration and we should discuss it with the Development Bureau.

Second, we think that the types of auxiliary bus services should be increased, not only those of the Kowloon Motor Bus or the so-called franchised buses, but also other bus services. There must be more competition, and not too many bus services should be cut due to the availability of railway.

I so submit. (The buzzer sounded)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, please stop speaking.

MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): President, like many cities in the world, the traffic in Hong Kong is very congested. The urban road surface and the demand for tunnels have reached or exceeded the designed capacity at present, and this problem seems to be getting worse. It takes a long time to go to work and school. Professional drivers who carry passengers or deliver goods have to reduce their pick-up work due to traffic jams. Economic loss in billions of dollars is incurred every day, which slows down the operation and efficiency of the entire society. It is more important that citizens feel uncomfortable and waste much time regardless of the means of transport they use. After getting off, they feel like having fought a battle. I believe this experience is too bad for Hong Kong people.

President, since the suspension of the Government's toll adjustment proposal for the three road harbour crossings, no new government policy has been heard. I hope that the Government will consider seriously how to solve the problems of congestion at harbour crossings and on the roads. Traffic jams 1732 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 continue at the three tunnels. In other districts, no matter whether it is Yuen Long, Tuen Mun, Tin Shui Wai, Tseung Kwan O or Sha Tin, the problem of traffic congestion cannot be avoided. Since the plan of the past did not work, we must think of other ways to improve the traffic congestion problem. But disappointingly, it seems that the Government is unable to deal with the traffic jam.

President, I am also very concerned about the tourism industry. Someone said previously that there were too many tourists in Hong Kong, making it very crowded. In the past six months, tourists seemed to have disappeared. Some employees have switched to work from home or work flexibly. However, the problem of traffic congestion is still serious. Conversely, traffic congestion will also affect the overall travel experience. Business travellers emphasize efficiency, and leisure travel emphasizes comfort. If taxis are congested or MTR trains are crowded, it will have a great impact. Therefore, traffic congestion affects both people's livelihood and the economy.

President, is the traffic congestion caused by too many vehicles? Is the increase in the number of vehicles related to government policies? Perhaps I can also talk about housing policy. The difference in property prices between the urban area and the New Territories can be millions of dollars. Therefore, it is very common for people to choose living in more remote areas and spending more than one to two hundred thousand dollars to buy a car for transport. Some small families having given birth to children think that public transport is not very safe as no safety seats for children are available and it is more convenient for them to travel in their own car. Since only four passengers are allowed in most taxis, a family of four with a foreign domestic helper will have to take two taxis separately. They think that it is better to buy a car for themselves. Has such idea increased the number of vehicles in Hong Kong, which in turn leads to traffic congestion? On this point, however, the Government can make policy improvements and should discuss with the taxi industry and insurance sector to find the way out.

Moreover, the service quality of public transport will also affect road congestion. If different means of public transport can provide passengers with a comfortable experience, people will be willing to take them. If they find them uncomfortable, such as having to stand for an hour on a bus or wait until three or four trains have passed before they can board an MTR train, those who are a bit better off would rather travel in a private car or take a taxi, which would in turn worsen road congestion. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1733

I think that the policy-making officials, not only those from the Transport and Housing Bureau, but also the ones from the Development Bureau and the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau, should bring their team to the MTR Admiralty Station nearby at 6:00 pm, the time when it is overcrowded. It often takes 20 minutes to board the train. A few years ago, netizens started using the term "a killing train station" to describe Admiralty, the super interchanging station. It is really overcrowded. Someone once told me that if I had a bag of biscuits with me on the train, they would become flour when I got off because the compartments were so crowded that people would crush the biscuits. Officials must consider comprehensively when formulating policies. We believe that when new districts are being developed, it should be the ancillary facilities waiting for the newcomers instead of sticking to the existing rules that roads and facilities will be built until the population of a new town reaches a certain number. It does not work that way. The Secretary really needs to think about it. You must build highways before attracting citizens to live in the new districts, instead of making the residents suffer as frontrunners.

President, apart from the excessive number of vehicles, traffic accidents are another cause of frequent traffic congestion. Once a car crashes, no matter whether it is a minor collision or a major accident, the road is bound to be congested. The Transport Department has an App that releases traffic news. Several hotspots where traffic accidents often occur, such as Tuen Mun, Yuen Long Highway, Ching Cheung Road, Kowloon City Roundabout, are on the list almost every day. Some drivers have a more dangerous driving attitude. Last week, a private car ran into a red light, resulting in the death of a motorcyclist, which made people feel sad. Therefore, I think that in addition to finding out the situations by itself, the Government should listen to drivers' opinions on road design as well.

At present, the Members in this Council are working genuinely. Everyone wants to do practical things and bears the development of Hong Kong in mind. We have put forward many specific opinions in the past, and many new ideas are proposed in today's motion and by Members. However, no matter how good the proposals are, the Government must implement them before the public can see the effect. I hope that the Secretary can respond to our opinions today or come up with new solutions as soon as possible to solve the problem of traffic congestion. I believe the Council is willing to support it. Promoting the economy and improving people's livelihood all require immediate actions. We should not focus on paperwork only. The most important thing is to make … achievements with our actions (The buzzer sounded) Thank you, President.

1734 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Jeffrey LAM, please stop speaking.

MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): President, I am very happy to see that when the President entered the Chamber this morning, all the Members present stood up and bowed to him. I am not targeting individuals; I just hope that this excellent tradition can continue.

President, returning to today's motion on traffic problem, in fact, the Legislative Council of every term knows that traffic is one of the biggest problems in Hong Kong over the years. Most opinions I hear from colleagues are in fact nothing new. Basically, they are rehashing the old tune. But the question is whether the proposals are feasible. What direction can be gradually implemented? We no longer need to explain why the traffic problem is important because this is common sense. President, what can we do? As the speaking time is seven minutes only, it is difficult to say everything. I just hope that for the record, I can put forward sporadic concepts on areas of special concern, and I can communicate with the Secretary on formal occasions.

First of all, I think Hong Kong is not too bad when compared to large international cities with insufficient land, such as New York and London. We have many railways and the public have choices, at least not having to drive to work every day. But of course, there are many problems with railways too. Mr Abraham SHEK, who sits by my side, dealt with many problems in the past and understands railway problems much clearer.

One of the points I want to talk about is our direction, which may not be a problem the Secretary can handle alone. The entire government and even the Chief Executive should think about diversion. I treacherously suggested that the Chief Executive's Office, the Legislative Council, and the Government Headquarters that had just moved in at that time should be dismantled. The Government should diversify its departments to all 18 districts so that the traffic will not always flow to Central District when people go to work and ebb to other districts when they are off. This general direction is worth considering. In fact, the Government is doing so although it may not be fast enough.

Secondly, Hong Kong's harbour is very beautiful. When I joined the Council on behalf of the tourism industry more than 10 years ago, I proposed sea taxis. The harbour is not only for viewing; it can also be utilized. The LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1735

Government has finally implemented sea taxis and I can be said to have succeeded in the strive. However, sea taxis cannot be used flexibly to increase mobility because of location restrictions. Only regular fixed-point service is not enough. I hope that the scope of services can be expanded. It would be better if we follow the practice of Vancouver, for example.

President, can you imagine how congested it would be if there were no footbridges in Central? Everyone knows how congested the traffic is on Cotton Tree Drive during the morning peak hours. The role of pedestrian escalators is irreplaceable. For many years, the Government has expressed its wish to apply this concept to other areas. But eventually it often says that there is not enough pedestrian flow to justify the application of the concept. The case is that one of the most important directions to solve the traffic problem is to replace vehicles on the road, especially in hilly Kowloon East. If a footbridge system extending from the top to the foot of the hill can be constructed, people will not need to drive circuitously downhill. This should be the general direction for solving the problem. Has the Government the courage to implement this practice? Does it intend to do it? The Secretary should think about it clearly.

President, another issue lies in the electronic toll collection system. I notice that despite a few setbacks in the riots last year during which many of them were destroyed, the electronic surveillance systems are being restored gradually, as far as I understand it. The problem is that the existing systems seem to be still staying at the stage of monitoring and collecting data. The data collected, however, cannot be used genuinely to assist in coordination, planning and even law enforcement. I believe this is not a matter for the Secretary to decide. I hope that the law enforcement agencies should use the facilities they have, instead of researching, researching, and re-researching. I do not know when the research can take advantage of technology. For example, there are three lanes on the roads in the Kwun Tong industrial area of Kowloon, but very often only one or even half of the lanes is remained for the traffic. If you compare it to a human, you have already suffered a stroke and died. We have been suffering for a long time, but it seems that Kowloon East will continue to be congested. I hope the authorities can make greater determination and efforts in this regard.

Moreover, in Wan Chai District, which I represent, transport is still the most worrying issue for everyone, although it is called a relatively wealthy area with the residents living peacefully for many years. In recent years, however, many people are worried that the Caroline Hill Road redevelopment project under 1736 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 discussion may have an impact on the Broadwood Road and Happy Valley areas. I believe that disputes and handling of related issues will continue for a long time, but I hope the Government understands that the design or final implementation of the project is the most concerned issue in the district.

President, I would also like to talk about the general direction. Everyone notices that the "PPPP Project" I participate recently aims at promoting the "Lantau Tomorrow" project. This project will take a long time, but the direction is correct. Its advantage is that it not only provides land, but also links up systematically the traffic on Hong Kong Island, outlying islands and New Territories West in one go. A promising government should strive to implement this general direction. As for the subtle parts, we certainly hope that it will continue to make minor repairs. However, I understand that we have little land but a large population, and therefore things are often less than ideal. But I think the Government must have foresight and courage to solve problems in the long term with the macro system, in a macro direction and by macro policies. For example, despite the twists and turns during the construction of the Central-Wan Chai Bypass, the traffic on Hong Kong Island has indeed become much smoother after its completion. The biggest problem in constructing a bypass is the need for reclamation and the construction of tunnels. Therefore, it seems that we cannot do away with the direction along land reclamation, which involves huge investment but can solve the overall traffic problem comparatively more thoroughly and effectively.

Thank you, President.

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I would like to thank Mr LUK Chung-hung for moving the original motion. As the saying goes, "People's livelihood is no small matter." Road traffic congestion affects people's daily travel. It really should not be ignored. The issue involves the planning of transport networks and infrastructure, public transport management, as well as the supporting facilities and flow management for cross-border transport. The SAR Government needs to review comprehensively its policies and plans on public transport.

President, the Government has conducted three overall transport studies since 1976. The most recent one, the Third Comprehensive Transport Study, was completed in 1999, two decades ago. As the population of Hong Kong LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1737 grows continuously, social and economic activities keep increasing. Various large-scale cross-border infrastructure projects, including the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge, the Hong Kong section of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link, and the Liantang/Heung Yuen Wai Boundary Control Point have been completed, which has increased the load on the local transport network. In recent years, I have urged the Administration through various channels, including submitting proposals to the Chief Executive on the policy address, that the Fourth Comprehensive Transport Study be launched as soon as possible to comprehensively enhance the capacity of the local transport infrastructure.

I think the authorities must formulate a comprehensive transport infrastructure development strategy to tie in with the planning on land, housing, economy and demography to meet the needs of Hong Kong's long-term development. This will ensure that various means of public transport will have clear positioning, complement each other and maintain reasonable competition to expand the overall transport network and infrastructure supporting capacity. At the same time, the overall urban planning should be optimized continually with government departments taking the lead to relocate their offices from core business districts to other areas. This can better balance the development of various districts and help diversify the current traffic flow.

President, it is advocated in the Third Comprehensive Transport Study for "better use of railways as the backbone of the passenger transport system". The government proposed in Railway Development Strategy 2014 to develop seven new railway projects, namely Tung Chung West Extension, Northern Link and Kwu Tung Station, Hung Shui Kiu Station, Tuen Mun South Extension, East Kowloon Line, South Island Line (West) and North Island Line, which would be completed before 2031. It was estimated at that time that the first extension of Tuen Mun South Line could be commissioned in 2022. Many people may know that I have been asking the Government to honour its promises for many years. I am very angry because six years have passed and only the Tung Chung West Extension and Tuen Mun South Extension have made some real progress. Obviously, there are several projects that must be carried out. For example, the infrastructure construction of Kwu Tung North and Fanling North has already started. The funding application for the preliminary works of the Hung Shui Kiu New Development Area involving more than $2.2 billion has been approved by the Finance Committee. However, the additional Kwu Tung and Hung Shui Kiu stations of the Lok Ma Chau Spur Line are nowhere to be seen at this moment 1738 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

I think the problem arises mainly from the uncoordinated administration of different government departments in urban planning. The land development of Kwu Tung North and Fanling North belongs to the Development Bureau, but the related transport planning belongs to the Transport and Housing Bureau. The two seem to lack good communication and cooperation. In fact, the work of relevant departments is already quite diverse and arduous. However, under the transport policy of using railways as the hub and arterial lines in Hong Kong, the overall planning and construction of railways is a very important issue requiring lots of efforts. Therefore, the Government must make larger resource input in this regard. I urge the SAR Government to implement as soon as possible the recommendations in the Final Report of Commission of Inquiry into the Construction Works at and near the Hung Hom Station Extension under the Shatin to Central Link Project to set up a dedicated department for handling and supervising the planning and construction of railways, and facilitate orderly implementation of the above seven railway projects.

Now that it is impossible for related projects to be implemented as planned, the Government should pragmatically adjust the project completion date and cost estimate, and explain to the public in detail. At the same time, the authorities should keep launching the Strategic Studies on Railways and Major Roads beyond 2030, including reconsidering the construction of the Tsuen Wan-Tuen Mun Railway to bring new impetus to further develop New Territories West. Railway development is closely related to people's livelihood. It not only helps relieve road traffic congestion but also allows the railway to drive development. The railway engineering talents trained in Hong Kong over the years, including professionals in railway planning, design, construction and operation, can make full play of their strengths. This will also help training young professionals to take over. It means making several achievements in one go.

President, we certainly understand that a comprehensive review of public transport policies and planning, or orderly implementation of the seven railway projects mentioned above, can cure the root cause, but distant water cannot help close fires. If you want to alleviate the current road traffic congestion properly, you can only resort to some temporary measures. One of the easier ways is to follow the trend of big data development, strengthen the application of innovative technology and establish a one-stop public traffic information platform with multi-functional mobile applications to bring together the real-time schedules of different public transport facilities, including trains, buses, minibuses and ferries, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1739 as well as traffic conditions in various districts, including information on vacant parking spaces nearby, so that the public can know genuinely the required information instantly and decide their best travel strategy with just a simple click.

President, with these remarks, I support the original motion of Mr LUK Chung-hung and the amendment by Mr CHAN Han-pan.

MR LAU KWOK-FAN (in Cantonese): President, I speak in support of the original motion "Alleviating road traffic congestion" proposed by Mr LUK Chung-hung and the amendment by Mr CHAN Han-pan.

I believe that the problem of road traffic congestion can be felt by many Hong Kong citizens, especially the residents of the New Territories, who have a deeper feeling of the problem. During the morning rush hour, road congestion on the way from the New Territories to the urban area is very serious. I live in the farthest North District in the New Territories. Basically, I go back to the Legislative Council by public transport or in my car every day. Sometimes I drive to the Legislative Council Complex during peak hours. I do not know whether the Secretary knows that the time taken to drive from the North District to Admiralty can allow me to drive from my home to Guangzhou. Both are about two hours. The reason is that when driving back to the Legislative Council Complex in the morning, I have to take the Tolo Highway and the Cross-Harbour Tunnel. When the road is congested, the journey may really take more than two hours. With the same driving time, I can reach Shenzhen and Guangzhou from the New Territories. Therefore, the Government must face up to the problem of traffic congestion. But how can the Government improve the traffic situation in the New Territories?

As many colleagues mentioned just now, I personally think that after the increase in the population of the New Territories, in addition to building more roads continuously, the Government … I think the traffic problem in Hong Kong is actually a structural problem. First, it involves the distribution of Hong Kong's economic and commercial centres. Just now a colleague proposed to "redistribute" the government facilities to 18 districts. I think there is no need to spread government facilities over 18 districts. In the past, the Government intended to relocate government department offices in several government buildings on Gloucester Road in Wan Chai. I suggest that some department offices be moved to North District or Yuen Long. Everyone knows that the 1740 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 daily mode of travel of Hong Kong citizens is to travel south in the morning, that is, to Hong Kong Island, and north at night. Therefore, you see that many means of public transport are overcrowded when people commute to and from their places of work. But in fact only those in a certain direction are overcrowded. Take the East Rail Line or the West Rail Line as an example. The compartments carrying residents in the New Territories travelling south to work in the morning are overcrowded, but there is still room on the trains heading north, which are not completely overcrowded. The problem is that the travel mode of Hong Kong citizens is monotonous: going south in the morning and going north in the evening. So, how can we disperse some over-concentrated work locations? In fact, there are many opportunities in the future, including the construction of the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area. The Government should make proper planning, such as considering whether to develop land in the New Territories. Especially about the innovation and technology industry, the Government has now indicated that it will cooperate with Shenzhen to develop an innovation and technology centre in the Lok Ma Chau Loop. The Government can relocate some government facilities or centres to the New Territories, and then it can make structural improvements.

The second point is about planning, and the most important issue we see is that the urban development of Hong Kong is implemented with infrastructure first. I know that the Government has changed its mindset in this regard. It used to develop the places first and then build infrastructure after people had moved in. Now it seems that the Government has changed this model by building roads and railways first, followed by gradual development of residence or houses. You can see that the Mainland has performed very well in this regard. I think it is worth the Government's reference.

Apart from the issue of infrastructure first, it comes to the planning model. The one adopted in Hong Kong is a model of deferment, which is applied to the planning of transport facilities, libraries, community halls and other facilities. It means such facilities will not be provided until the population of the area has reached a certain target. For example, the population must reach 400 000 before the Government builds swimming pools and libraries in the area. The same is true for footpath covers. The flow of people needs to come to an average of 2 000 or 4 000 people per hour before the Government constructs footpath covers or flyovers and other facilities there. The Government will not provide such facilities until the pedestrian flow overcrowds the place. What is wrong with this model of deferred planning? Some facilities will not be provided until the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1741 population or the flow has reached the benchmark. However, those facilities cannot be completed immediately for public use. Instead, they have to go through planning, construction and other procedures. People often need to endure years of inconvenience and pain to get the facilities they want, which is very undesirable. Therefore, I hope that the Government will really make changes in the overall development, the layout and the awareness of urban planning when it improves the traffic situation in Hong Kong.

Regarding this motion, I think the Government should implement the construction of many infrastructure and facilities. Specifically, let us take New Territories North as an example. Regarding the implementation of the Northern Link, land resumption and development in North East New Territories have begun. The Government also states that Hung Shui Kiu has been properly planned and land resumption is prepared, but no specific decision has been made for the Northern Link connecting the two new development areas. Will the Northern Link be yet to commission after completion of the development of North East New Territories or Hung Shui Kiu? In this regard, I hope the Secretary can respond to the issue of the Northern Link later. Secondly, we can see that the population of New Territories East is increasing. While there are main roads such as Tuen Mun Road and Tai Lam Tunnel in New Territories West, residents in New Territories East can only rely on the Tolo Highway to travel to or from the urban area. In addition to the Tolo Highway, has the Secretary considered building a bypass to connect North District and Tai Po to Route 8 so that residents of New Territories East can have an extra highway to and from the urban area? Regarding these suggestions, we have conducted a research on this earlier and submitted a report to the Secretary, who we hope can give a substantive response.

President, I so submit. Thank you.

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, traffic congestion is a problem to be faced and solved by governments all over the world.

When talking about traffic jams, we usually mention economic losses because the time wasted in the traffic jam can usually be converted into a numerical value for us to know the economic benefits thus lost. At the same time, some data show that road emissions have increased due to traffic congestion. Take Hong Kong as an example. In 2018, approximately 70 000 1742 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 people suffered from respiratory diseases due to increased exhaust emissions. In the same year, 1 685 people died of poor air quality. Therefore, everyone attaches great importance to improving traffic.

Of course, the traffic congestion in Hong Kong might not be too serious as it is not among the top ten yet. Two of the ten cities with most traffic jam are in India: Mumbai and New Delhi. Bogota in Colombia and Lima in Peru are also among the top ten, but they have nothing to do with Hong Kong.

Every time when we discuss with the Government about solving the problem of road congestion, it will only say that more mass transport and railways should be used. The question is whether MTRCL is perfect. Of course, its performance is obvious to all, and the index of accidents is considered low. To be fair, as a colleague also mentioned it this morning, MTRCL in Hong Kong is not bad at all if compared with their European and American counterparts. However, what about the "sardine" problem? In the past, everyone disputed over the number of people that should be allowed to stand in 1 sq m. In fact, 1 sq m is really not a large space. Based on my body size, four people can be accommodated. However, there are different interpretations in different places. Some think that six people can be allowed to stand in 1 sq m, but I do not know whether they need to have their faces touching one another or not. A study conducted in Nanjing has researched on the number of people that can be packed in a carriage, but it assumes that all passengers do not carry any large items. The finding is that about 6.8 people can be accommodated in 1 sq m. The problem, however, is that everyone goes to work and school, not shopping. We wage earners have to carry our briefcases and schoolbags on the compartments, so the situation of not carrying anything does not make sense. MTRCL has also tried urging people not to carry heavy items on the trains.

The question raised now is that the railway, a means of mass transport, is basically very crowded during peak hours. Is there still room for people who originally take private cars and buses on the road to switch to MTR trains? Should it be like the Tokyo subway, where passengers have to press their faces against the glass doors? Can the Secretary say such things? If he does not dare to say that, he should not ask people to reduce their driving and take the MTR trains. Since the MTR trains are overcrowded during peak hours, why does he not ask the employers to adopt flexible working hours for their employees? He does not dare to say it.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1743

In addition, the authorities are not bold enough. Singapore is doing very well―I do not know if there are any changes now. According to the information I get on the Internet, local passengers can take the subway for free when they leave the gate before 7:45 am. This is the Early Bird Project that workers can enjoy. If they exit through the gate between 7:45 am and 8:00 am, a small discount of 0.5 Singaporean dollar, equivalent to HK$3, will be provided. The problem now is that, as you can see, the discounts provided by MTRCL's Early Bird Scheme are still meagre. How can this play a role in diversion? If the discount from the fare that I could enjoy for being an "early bird" were enough for my breakfast, I would set out early, have breakfast in a tea restaurant and then go to work leisurely, so that the fare for a single trip could be saved. However, MTRCL cannot do this. Therefore, before the railway service is changed, it is actually difficult to change the condition that private cars take up the roads.

Speaking of railways, as a Member of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong Island, I must "chase the debt" about the South Island Line (West), that is, the railway line related to Wah Fu Estate. In fact, this has been said for a long time in the Railway Development Strategy 2014. It mentions 2029, but I do not know whether this is the year of decision or completion. I hope the Secretary can tell Members later. We have been proposing to rebuild Wah Fu Estate since 2012―we were the first to make the proposal―and the Government has promised to rebuild it, but what railway facilities will be built to fit in?

The authorities are now telling us that they will not consider building a railway until the redevelopment of the housing estate is almost completed. My neighbours say that this is not feasible. There are 9 000 flats in Wah Fu Estate. With the additional flats under the Green Form Subsidised Home Ownership Scheme and the Home Ownership Scheme, there will be a total of 21 000 units after redevelopment. The population of the whole district will be doubled. Everyone knows that the Aberdeen Tunnel is still congested during peak hours. If new housing estates are built first without prearranged supporting facilities and railway service, and the public are only be asked to wait, I believe many residents there will clamour. Since the entire redevelopment plan has already been implemented, why was the railway plan not considered in advance? No one wants to see serious traffic congestion during rush hours. If at that time the Government said that railway would be built for the benefit of the public, I did not know whether I should praise or scold it, because it had already been given time to deal with it.

1744 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

Of course, we are fighting for the Siu Sai Wan extension as well. As a health centre and a social welfare facility building will be built in Siu Sai Wan, many elderly people will go there to receive primary medical services. It will not be desirable if they still have to exchange for minibuses to Siu Sai Wan at Chai Wan station as they do now. Therefore, we hope that the Government can expedite the handling of these two railway lines.

I still have a lot of things to say, but the subject of Mr LUK's motion is really too broad. I have talked mainly on these two items. I so submit. Thank you, President.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(Dr Junius HO indicated his wish to speak)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Junius HO, please speak.

DR JUNIUS HO (in Cantonese): President, my speech will be very brief. I think the motion proposed by Mr LUK Chung-hung is very meaningful. In this regard, he proposes the "Eight Tonic Wine", the eight major options. I hope the Secretary will consider them. After taking the formula drink, we should have a strong body.

He has put forward a few points. The first one has my full support already as we have to be forward-looking in urban design and planning. Now it is said that North Lantau will be developed, isn't it? Then there will be the Lantau Island with "Development in the North, Conservation for the South". Should the entire island be fully connected with roads first? We should also get prepared for the rainy days. Now that we are talking about the development of North Lantau, we must also consider the transport there. Then should we consider the layout of the entire Lantau Island to tie in with the development of North Lantau? This design is necessary.

Therefore, I have added more "two flavours" to his "Eight Tonic Wine". The design should be forward-looking, especially in some important urban business area centres, where the buildings will be connected with footbridges. I LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1745 admire Tsuen Wan very much for its good connectivity with footbridges. I also see that such layout is sprouting at Kam Tin now. When building these flyovers, we must also beautify them with artistic elegance and style so that we walk there every day as if we were walking out of home without any sense of stress. If air-conditioning can be provided, I believe they will help reduce the traffic load on the ground and help reduce carbon emissions. This is the ninth recommendation.

The tenth item, which we discussed for a long time in the past, is the arrangement for the first registration of vehicles. This should fall within the portfolio of the Secretary. Singapore's practice deserves our reference. Is Hong Kong too crowded? There are also a lot of vehicles in Hong Kong, at about 700 000. The number of private cars is also high. I think it is a good thing to replace one vehicle with another. If the Secretary can propose a policy on the first registration of vehicles, I believe it will be a good thing to replace an old one with a new one. Of course, this may bring up the problem of high prices. In the future, people may strive to get registration papers of old cars, but I think these problems can be mediated and coordinated. If Singapore can do it, why can we not?

Therefore, I would like to add more "two flavors". I fully support the points proposed by Mr LUK Chung-hung, but I would like to add two more, that is, to provide infrastructure and build footbridges among buildings. These will be of great benefit. In addition, the ways to implement the first car registration practice adopted overseas will also help alleviate the issue with high number of vehicles.

President, I so submit. Thank you.

MR STEVEN HO (in Cantonese): President, I would like to thank Mr LUK Chung-hung and Mr CHAN Han-pan for their respective motion and amendment on traffic today. Just like the previous motion, for many years, except for the first year when there were motions by Members, this time everyone almost forgot how to debate. When debating the last motion, it was not until everyone saw the Secretary stand up to respond that they found surprisingly the debate was over. We have forgotten the procedure already. Coming back to business, thanks to the two Members because the traffic problem has really plagued us for a long time. As a resident of New Territories West, I have received complaints from 1746 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 many citizens on this problem. Today, I see that the motion contains a bottle of "Eight Tonic Wine", and Mr CHAN Han-pan also proposed an amendment. This motion is a bit different from the previous one because the wording of Mr Tommy CHEUNG's motion is only one sentence in which he proposes the direction only. Mr LUK Chung-hung has proposed "eight tonics" and hopes that the Government will introduce specific measures. Therefore, the two motions are a bit different.

At the same time, I would like to express the views on behalf of the residents of Yuen Long and friends from the agricultural and fishery sectors in Yuen Long. We often talk about how to make travels more convenient. Their direction is slightly different from that of the two Members. They start from the concept. In this society, if the citizens are required to make a little sacrifice and leave home early, nevertheless, they have to sacrifice themselves or make themselves inconvenient for relieving traffic congestion. Basically, it is difficult for them to do so because of human nature. As pointed out by President XI in the Reports of the 18th or the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, people are pursuing a better life. At present, motorists are facing traffic congestion on the road and people taking MTR find the trains often full, that is, they feel uncomfortable no matter how they travel.

Therefore, in terms of the concept in implementing the measures, the Secretary should keep in line with the advice given to me by the "brothers" in the agriculture and fisheries sector, that is, how to provide a way that we find comfortable so that the public will naturally choose to use it for their own benefit. He should not just ask people to use Park and Ride on Kam Sheung Road, saying that the park-and-ride plan can allow them to save several dollars. In fact, some citizens do not care about the saving of several dollars. Of course, for ordinary citizens who do not have a car, several dollars are also important. However, the Government aims to make drivers choose not to drive. The saving of such a little money may not be able to reduce fuel cost very much. Significant increase in fuel costs, or even tax hike, are greater incentives for people to choose park-and-ride. However, it is difficult for us as Members to ask the Government to increase taxes. In the current economic environment of Hong Kong, this is also unrealistic. Mr CHAN Han-pan also mentioned earlier that the daily rent of a petrol station may amount to more than $80,000, so a substantial price reduction might not be possible. As car owners have become accustomed to expensive gas, even if the park-and-ride concession offered by MTRCL can save several dollars, what use is it?

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1747

However, I have tried Park and Ride myself, but I will definitely not do it during peak hours. If I drive to the MTR station and park the car at Yuen Long, it costs more than $50. Then I switch to MTR, which is very crowded, and I have to wait for two or three trains to get on one. In this case, some people think it is better to drive downtown because time is also important. If neither taking MTR nor driving can save time, I would rather choose the more comfortable way. It may be more interesting for me to listen to the radio in the car hearing how people scold the Government. Sometimes I can also interact with others as the free space in the car is relatively small. I have also found a problem when using it. MTRCL would sometimes charge me more than $90 instead of $50. However, I wanted to save time and did not lodge a complaint. Therefore, in this respect, the SAR Government should consider how to simplify the complaint mechanism. It is not easy to ask me to queue up every time.

Another point is that it is better to reduce cross-district travels. In terms of community planning, the Government should achieve employment in the local area and strengthen the local economy so that citizens can earn more money without travelling far away from the area where they live. If they can find employment and earn more money in the local area, why would they bother to drive downtown? This is their interest.

In addition, I think Tsuen Wan has done a better job by separating pedestrians from vehicles and using footbridges to raise the entire pedestrian network. I remember that I walked from the current MTR station in Tsuen Wan to Tsuen Wan West Station before completion of the footbridge network. The distance was really long and it took at least 15 to 20 minutes because there were many traffic lights on the ground. After completion of the footbridge network, it now takes only seven minutes to go to major shopping malls or from Tsuen Wan Station to Tsuen Wan West Station. It saves a lot of time with the way smooth and unobstructed. We need not stop to wait and breathe in the emission from vehicles. It is a good idea that benefits both parties because when the pedestrian flow is elevated, people will not compete with the vehicles on the roads and the latter can run faster.

Of course, some new footbridge projects are less successful. The most unsuccessful one is the project in Yuen Long. Anyway, it is good in theory, and I still think it should be built even though the cost is a little bit expensive. In any case, the design of the flyover is too short and its implementation by the Government is relatively poor. As soon as it was proposed, they said it would 1748 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 cost more than $1 billion. Several experts came out to criticize the Government, saying that such a construction was not good enough. The society was divided when they attacked each other. The SAR Government should learn from this experience and strive for the support of local residents at different times. This should be done vigorously to make some experts … I am not saying that all experts are like this. Some experts are good, but some others may not have argued rationally. They insist that the SAR Government listen to their opinions, out of their own personal benefit or from the professional perspective of the industry. It is very difficult for them to change their minds because they have already had a conclusion. If they "turned the driving wheel" and changed their opinion after listening to the Government's view, it would be a difficult way out for them. Therefore, this can only be achieved with wider support.

Finally, I would specifically mention the problem of bicycles. One of the points raised by Mr CHAN Han-pan is to encourage the public to commute by bicycles. It is good to increase cycling trails, but first of all, we must consider how to enhance cyclists' safety awareness. I often hear people in Yuen Long telling me and Mr LEUNG Che-cheung that people go in the opposite direction when riding a bicycle. They can head towards me when I am driving, and there are no lights in the front and at the back of the bicycle. In this regard, the Government should cultivate among the public a correct attitude for cycling. Perhaps Cycling Safety Ambassadors or law enforcement is needed to make them use cycling trails more effectively.

President, I so submit.

MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): President, Hong Kong's dense urban configuration and efficient public transport network used to lead the Asia-Pacific region. In recent years, however, Hong Kong's urban layout has changed and the facilities are ageing. The shortcomings of the transport network are emerging. Traffic congestion during peak hours at busy road sections is the main problem we are currently facing.

The main cause of traffic congestion is that Hong Kong's property prices and rents have risen over the past decade. A large number of people have thus moved to the new towns in the New Territories where property prices are relatively lower, such as Tuen Mun, Yuen Long, Tai Po, Tseung Kwan O. Traditional business districts are still concentrated in the urban area such as LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1749

Central, or even the newly developed Kwun Tong. This exerts greater pressure on the traffic between the New Territories and the urban areas. The Planning Department has projected that the population of the New Territories between 2018 and 2028 will increase by 10% to 4.36 million, and the percentage of the total population of Hong Kong will rise from 52.8% to 55%. On the contrary, the number of residents on Hong Kong Island is estimated to decrease by 100 000, and its percentage in the total population will drop from 16.8% to 14.7%. With a large number of people having moved into the New Territories in recent years, the two major traffic arteries of the New Territories, namely the Tolo Highway and Tuen Mun Road, are even more overloaded. Traffic congestion is also frequent on Lung Cheung Road and Ching Cheung Road, which run through northern Kowloon. Whenever these arterial roads are congested, a chain congestion effect will result, and the queues of traffic will extend to the surrounding areas, causing the congestion to expand continuously.

On the other hand, the number of private vehicles in Hong Kong has increased dramatically. As at the end of 2018, their number exceeded 560 000, an increase of 40% over the 2008 figure. People having moved to the New Territories will naturally consider buying private cars to facilitate commuting to their places of work. This has also invisibly caused serious traffic congestion between the New Territories and the urban area, creating a vicious circle.

Therefore, I think that solving traffic congestion requires short-term, mid-term and long-term planning, which should complement one another. The original motion and the amendment have put forward many suggestions, including the construction of new roads and the addition of railway networks. The implementation of these long-term transport facilities needs to be carried out at the same time as the overall planning of the city. The traffic problems we are currently facing may not be solved in the short term. What we need to consider now is how to alleviate traffic congestion with existing resources.

In recent years, many cities try to solve urban traffic congestion by means of technology, such as collecting data for big data processing to guide people's travels. Sensors and satellite positioning technology are employed to obtain real-time traffic data of vehicles and pedestrians for the urban traffic command system to guide vehicles away from congested sections so that traffic jams can be reduced. For example, the urban brain system established by Alibaba in Hangzhou collects big data with sensors for artificial intelligence analysis to control the traffic of the entire city. In just two years, Hangzhou dropped from th th 5 to 57 in the traffic jam ranking of cities in China. 1750 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

With reference to the experience of managing traffic congestion in other regions, I think the Government can do at least two things to solve the traffic congestion in Hong Kong.

First, it can encourage citizens to take public transport during peak hours at busy road sections by coordinating the number of private vehicles on the road through tolls. In fact, road pricing is quite mature now. Singapore launched the world's first toll plan for roads of central business district in 1975. In the first few years of the system operation, the flow of private vehicles reduced by 44% despite the increase in their number. The quantity of private cars entering the toll area also dropped by 73%. In Hong Kong, the Government actually tried electronic road pricing as early as the 1980s, but we still fail to implement the relevant plan after 30 years. A few years ago, the Government launched an electronic road pricing pilot programme in core areas such as Central. I think the programme should continue for exploration and trial. It can be considered for implementation in other regions should the effect be positive.

Second, New Territories bus routes can be deployed more precisely through big data. This will enhance passengers' travel experience and reduce the use of private vehicles. Due to the remote location of their homes and the absence of direct transport to their workplaces, many residents in the New Territories can only drive, causing congestion on the roads to and from the New Territories during busy hours. At present, the village/estate buses can solve some of the problems, but their operators have to develop the routes, which requires a long time for market research and cost accounting. The Government should also consider balancing the original interests and routes of the franchised bus companies. In response to these problems, cities in the Mainland have actually developed a relatively complete artificial intelligence system which can compile bus routes in some remote areas by analysing public transport big data to assist in designing routes, stops, schedules and fares. Passengers can even use the system to buy tickets and reserve seats in advance to avoid waste of resources. It is understood that the utilization rate of bus routes compiled through the system is as high as 80%. Automobile companies can also use artificial intelligence to develop new routes, which will greatly shorten research time and help the Government reduce the time required for approval of routes. I think the Government has the responsibility to make use of artificial intelligence systems to provide support. Through big data analysis, it can work with relevant stakeholders to solve the traffic congestion problem in the New Territories.

Thank you, President.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1751

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LUK Chung-hung, you may now speak on the amendment. The time limit is five minutes.

MR LUK CHUNG-HUNG (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I would like to thank Mr CHAN Han-pan for proposing the amendment. Just as Dr Junius HO said, he has changed the content of my motion from "Eight Tonic Wine" to an 11-man football team. The position of each player is also very important. I think this has achieved the purpose of my motion, which is to get the ball rolling so that everyone will discuss and promote the alleviation of road traffic congestion.

I will give a short response to the content of the amendment proposed by Mr CHAN Han-pan. His amendment mainly supplements the content of my motion. In principle, it is not much different from mine. Therefore, the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions ("FTU") also supports his amendment. In fact, probably because Mr CHAN often visits the district as FTU does and I live in New Territories West as well, I feel a lot about the traffic congestion problem. Therefore, much of the content in his amendment coincides with that of FTU.

For example, Mr CHAN Han-pan proposes in his amendment "introducing a profit factor …" in "the Fare Adjustment Mechanism of the MTR Corporation Limited ('MTRCL')", which is very reasonable. MTRCL earns tens of billion dollars each year, but it continues increasing the fares automatically under the Fare Adjustment Mechanism, which effects only increases but no reduction. The public is of course very dissatisfied with it, and it also affects the public's desire to take public transport. This is a very good point, which is in the same line as the proposal of FTU in 2017 to include a profit deduction index in the fare mechanism.

Secondly, he mentions in the amendment that the plan to rationalize the traffic among the three tunnels should be drawn up without a substantial increase in the toll of the Cross-Harbour Tunnel and the Eastern Harbour Crossing. In fact, in the discussions last year, this was also the consensus of the public. That 1752 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 is why we did not agree with the Government's three-tunnel diversion plan. We believe that the Government should take this three-tunnel diversion arrangement as the blueprint to promote future plans after the Government takes back the Western Harbour Crossing. There is still an opportunity to divert the traffic at the three tunnels. In addition, there is the Lantau Link proposal. FTU proposed it as early as 2013, and finally achieved the result this year. At the end of next month, when the Tuen Mun-Chek Lap Kok Link opens, the Lantau Link will also be free of charge.

However, I want to add one point. It is the problem with the Tai Lam Tunnel. I hope that I will have the opportunity to push it forward with Mr CHAN Han-pan. The Government will withdraw the franchise of the Tai Lam Tunnel in 2025. Of course, I hope that there will be toll reduction then. At present, private cars are charged $48 per trip, which is indeed very expensive. Many drivers would rather be stuck on Tuen Mun Road than using the Tai Lam Tunnel. A more ideal approach is for the Government to discuss with the relevant operator about early withdrawal of the franchise, or attract more people to use the Tai Lam Tunnel through subsidies to reduce the traffic congestion on Tuen Mun Road.

Fourth, the amendment also proposes the direction of giving priority to the use of roads by public transport. We, FTU, have always supported it. In addition to bus-only lanes, we are also striving for bus interchange stations in urban areas, for example in Kowloon East, so that residents living uphill may use public transport more often. Therefore, we also support this direction.

Finally, I also agree very much with the implementation of a comprehensive bicycle-friendly policy. As early as 2002, Mr LEUNG Fu-wah, former Legislative Council Member of FTU, put forward the proposal of "developing the bicycle business to create job opportunities", and proposed the concept of the super cycling track which is completed this year. It has taken 18 years to realize the concept since we proposed it. Of course, the section from Tuen Mun to Tsuen Wan has not been completed yet while the Tuen Mun-Ma On Shan cycle track is now open. I personally experienced it earlier. The route is good, but there is still much room for improvement. For example, some places are rugged and the ancillary facilities have much room for improvement too. A comprehensive bicycle policy not only requires infrastructure but also needs to keep abreast with the times in terms of legislation, such as that for electric bicycles. I hope that the authorities will not procrastinate when dealing with the law so that we can keep up with the trend of carbon reduction. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1753

Finally, with these remarks, I hope that colleagues can support my motion and Mr CHAN Han-pan's amendment, so that the Government's transport policy can be greatly improved. Thank you, President.

SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I must thank Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr CHAN Han-pan and all the Members who have voiced their opinions. Their views are very constructive and well-founded. We are sincerely grateful to their views, from reminders to criticisms, and will also review and study them. I have explained in great detail at the beginning how the Government alleviates traffic congestion, as well as the overall transport policy planning and implementation measures. Here, I would like to respond briefly to a few important points.

First of all, with regard to transport policies, infrastructure, and administrative measures, we fully agree that a forward-looking vision is required. We will carry out research on railways and arterial roads beyond 2030 with respect to the "Hong Kong 2030+" vision of the Development Bureau.

Many Members mention that there has been a lot of migration in Hong Kong since the past time and it will even extend to the future. People move from the urban area to the northern part of the New Territories. Relevant studies will address the related traffic and transport issues, such as the current traffic congestion at Au Tau and Kai Leng Roundabout in North East New Territories, the widening of the Tolo Highway from the Fanling section, the expansion of the existing two-way double lanes in the Sha Tin section to two-way three-lane, and the T4 trunk road under study. Just now some Members mentioned the Sha Tin Bypass, and we will consider it together. The study will also cover the traffic conditions in the northwest of the New Territories, Tuen Mun South, Tuen Mun West Bypass, and Route 11. Members also mentioned the overall plan after the reclamation of the central waters of Kau Yi Chau, which will depend on the results of the "Hong Kong 2030+" vision planning for comprehensive coordination.

With regard to transport research, Members also mentioned the overall transport study in 1999. With the changes in times, technology and travel patterns, the arrangements for transport studies also need to keep pace with the times and respond in a timely manner to the latest situation. Since 1999, relevant studies have been ongoing, and we will continue carrying out comprehensive transport strategy research in a new direction. 1754 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

Regarding the railway service that many Members are concerned about, it is true that the Hong Kong Railway was once the pride of Hong Kong people. It has been serving Hong Kong people for more than 40 years since the 1970s. In the process, there are good aspects as well as areas that can be improved. The SAR Government will seriously urge the MTR Corporation Limited and work with them to provide Hong Kong citizens with high-quality railway services and reliable daily operation when implementing the railway service plan.

About promotion of the railway project, I believe that everyone can rest assured. The creation of capacity and the advancement of infrastructure construction have been clearly stated in the Chief Executive's Policy Address. They are also factors we will consider when planning for future transport, and even for urban planning, housing construction and regional facilities. Therefore, I find no difference in this respect between the views of the Government and those of the Members present.

Everyone is concerned very much about the problem of parking spaces. We understand that Hong Kong, a world-class metropolis, has a good and comprehensive public transport system. At the same time, we must also take care of the travel needs of some people living in remote parts of the New Territories. Therefore, we need to consider and balance whether and how to control automobile growth. For urban residents, we have other pedestrian-friendly arrangements. As for residents in the suburbs, I also hope that we can provide them with an alternative means of travel through the bicycle-friendly policy. Regarding the supply of parking spaces, some Members asked what the future supply would be like. The lack of parking spaces is relative, depending on the number of vehicles in a city and the mode of travel. An average of 10 million trips are made in Hong Kong every day, with 90% of them made in the public transport system, and only 10% of the remaining trips made by private vehicles. Under this circumstance, everyone has asked whether we can vigorously curb the increase of vehicles. At the same time, Members present have also mentioned that many citizens do not travel by car on weekdays but they will go to more remote places at weekends for family gathering. There is a real need for the whole family to travel together. Therefore, the number of cars alone is not enough to reflect the impact of private cars on transport. What we have to consider is congestion during peak hours. During non-peak hours, Saturday, Sunday or holiday, no matter whether they are driving or taking public transport, everyone feels good. It is impossible for any public transport system that allows every passenger to have a seat and be free from congestion 24 hours a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1755 day. Metropolises all over the world face the same problems during the busy hours of commuting. I hope that we can consider from this perspective.

Regarding parking spaces, as I said clearly at the beginning, the Government adopts a policy of "single site, multiple uses", under which public car parks are added to appropriate "government, institution or community facilities" sites and public open spaces. The Transport Department is also actively exploring 20 new public car park projects. We estimate that a total of 5 100 public parking spaces can be provided. If the project is accepted by the community, supported by the Council and funded, we expect to start providing the services in 2024-2025.

As for some Members who are concerned about the automatic parking system, I can report to you here. Among the six parking systems, tendering exercise is being conducted for the one in Tsuen Wan. If everything goes well, it can be put into service by the end of 2021. As for the other projects, we will also make every effort to advance them.

Regarding public parking spaces, we need to understand that this matter is regulated by the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines. The Transport Department and relevant departments have conducted a comprehensive review on the supply of parking spaces, urban planning and traffic impacts, and have also proposed some amendments. We will announce the amendments in due course after completing the normal procedures.

Next, please allow me to talk about the complementary roles of public transport. Members present here all understand the reasons for that. In fact, we have conducted reviews on different modes of public transport. Railways, buses, minibuses, trams, ferries and even taxis, each of them has its own role and complements one another. They provide suitable services in different areas with various passenger flow, ranging from small to large quantity. It is important to ensure their ecological health, sustainable development and provision of quality services to citizens. Therefore, we hope that everyone will treat different modes of transport equally because each of them has its own value and role in providing services to the public.

Finally, I would like to mention that I am glad to hear many Members present today approve of many policies and management measures, including the option to rationalize the traffic among the three tunnels we proposed earlier. Of 1756 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 course, the atmosphere and considerations were different at the time, but I hope that when the Western Harbour Crossing is recovered in 2023 and the project submitted to the Council, it will receive some positive suggestions and support from everyone. This will allow the effective and practically feasible implement within of rationalization among the three tunnels to provide Hong Kong citizens with convenient, fast and affordable means to cross the harbour.

In addition, studies on Electronic Road Pricing, "Congestion Charging" etc. are ongoing in depth. Of course, there are objections to the measures. Hong Kong is a pluralistic society, and it is normal to have objections. It is most important that we can discuss and plan together to find a solution that we can accept for Hong Kong.

In addition to what I have just mentioned, about technology, what we refer to are automatic parking systems, the regulation of autonomous vehicles in the future and other new technologies, we will also study them. We will consider the actual situation in Hong Kong and make recommendations pragmatically. When the proposals are mature, we will submit them to the Council for consultation to see how the way forward can be planned.

President, in the past two days, that is yesterday and today, I feel that the Council has changed. Everyone is pragmatic, rational and positive. While some of the opinions are not exactly the same as ours, many of them are completely the same. Everyone's concerns can be different, reflecting the culture of diversity and attitude of inclusion in the Council and the society. We also focus on the matters being discussed to serve Hong Kong people. I would like to thank all Members present for their views on the motion "Alleviating road traffic congestion". We will study it carefully. Thank you, President.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon Mr CHAN Han-pan to move an amendment.

MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Cantonese): President, I move my amendment to amend the motion on "Alleviating Road Traffic Congestion" moved by Mr LUK Chung-hung.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1757

The amendment moved by Mr CHAN Han-pan (See the marked-up version at Annex 1)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr CHAN Han-pan be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections. I declare the amendment passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LUK Chung-hung, you still have 30 seconds to reply. Then, the debate will come to a close.

MR LUK CHUNG-HUNG (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I would like to thank the 22 Members for their speeches which have enriched this motion debate. I hope that Members will support my motion and work together to alleviate the long-standing major problem of traffic congestion. I also hope that the Government will adopt a new mindset in the face of the new circumstances in the Council. In particular, various departments must avoid working on their own, sticking to old ways and staying complacent. They should adopt a people-oriented approach and take drastic measures, instead of acting just as criticized by most Members (The buzzer sounded) … only when it is crammed full of people …

1758 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LUK Chung-hung, please stop speaking immediately.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Mr LUK Chung-hung, as amended by Mr CHAN Han-pan, be passed. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections. I declare the motion as amended passed.

NEXT MEETING

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now adjourn the Council until 11:00 am on Wednesday, 25 November 2020.

Adjourned accordingly at 10:20 am.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020 1759

Annex 1

The marked-up version of the revised amendment moved by Mr CHAN Han-pan (Translation)

That, given the persistent growth in Hong Kong's population and continuous increase in economic activities, the pressure on traffic demands has continued to increase; Hong Kong has all along adopted the public transport policy of 'according priority to railway' to alleviate the problem of traffic congestion; yet, in recent years, the problem of road traffic congestion has remained serious, affecting people's daily commuting; in fact, problems have existed in Hong Kong in terms of traffic network planning, transport infrastructure facilities, road design and public transport management, thus resulting in increasingly serious road traffic congestion; in this connection, this Council urges the Government to expeditiously and comprehensively review public transport planning and policies to alleviate the problem of road traffic congestion; specific measures include:

(1) progressively relocating important business development areas to other districts when undertaking urban design and planning, and taking the lead to move government departments out of core business districts, so as to divert vehicular flows;

(2) expeditiously launching the Fourth Comprehensive Transport Study to comprehensively examine the roles and positioning of various public transport services and make planning for the expansion of road infrastructure;

(3) expeditiously implementing the various railway projects recommended in the Railway Development Strategy 2014 and making planning for future railway network as soon as possible, such as studying afresh the construction of the Tuen Mun to Tsuen Wan Link with the alignment extending to Sha Tin, and the East Kowloon Line, studying the development of a second North South Corridor (East Rail Line 2) and the Siu Sai Wan Extension, so as to alleviate traffic congestion in various districts;

1760 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 19 November 2020

(4) increasing the supply of parking spaces for commercial vehicles and the public, including reviewing the ratio of the number of parking spaces to the number of vehicles in accordance with the Hong Kong Planning Standards and Guidelines, identifying more pilot sites for the provision of smart car parks in new development and redevelopment projects under the principle of 'single site, multiple uses', and encouraging private developers and government departments to make good use of underground spaces of buildings for the provision of car parks; and at the same time, formulating measures to control the growth of private cars;

(5) proposing more measures to reduce or waive public transport fares and offer public transport fare concessions, such as reducing or waiving the tolls of government tunnels and bridges on various public transport modes, introducing a monthly pass scheme for inter-modal interchange by the Government, lowering the current threshold for the non-means tested Public Transport Fare Subsidy Scheme and setting up a fare stabilization fund, so as to encourage more people to take public transport;

(6) reviewing the Fare Adjustment Mechanism of the MTR Corporation Limited, including introducing a profit factor to better reflect the profit situations of the company, so as to determine a more reasonable railway fare level;

(6)(7) expeditiously reviewing the toll policy of government tunnels and bridges, including studying the introduction of standard tolls or suitable toll adjustment for the current three land tunnels and, putting forward a toll plan to, without substantially raising the tolls for the Cross-Harbour Tunnel and Eastern Harbour Crossing, rationalize the traffic of the three road harbour crossings, so as to divert vehicular flows, and abolishing the tolls for the Lantau Link to alleviate traffic congestion arising from vehicles queuing up to make payment;

(7)(8) providing park-and-ride concessions for public car parks in major public transport interchanges, and encouraging privately operated car parks to offer similar concessions; and

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(8)(9) stepping up the application of big data and innovative technology, including the improvement of service information systems of the Government and various transport operators, the enhancement of the features of relevant application software and programmes to provide an integrated, real-time information on service schedules and operation conditions of public transport modes (including franchised buses and minibuses), the provision of parking vacancy information real-time information on vacant government- or privately-operated parking spaces, full introduction of a system to monitor black spots of illegal parking, and a feasibility study on introducing driver aid technology and the relevant legal framework, so as to relieve road traffic congestion;

(10) proactively implementing the measure to accord priority in the use of roads to public transport modes, and designating more bus-only lanes during peak hours, so as to encourage the public to take public transport ; and

(11) formulating a comprehensive bicycle-friendly policy to encourage the public to commute by bicycles so as to reduce the use of vehicles.

Note: Mr CHAN Han-pan's amendment is marked in bold and italic type or with deletion line.