Committee Room E249
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MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 1 of 86 TUESDAY, 16 MAY 2017 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – COMMITTEE ROOM E249 ____ Members of the mini-plenary session met in Committee Room E249 at 14:02. House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation. APPROPRIATION BILL Debate on Vote No 7 – National Treasury (State Security): The MINISTER OF STATE SECURITY: Chairperson of our session, hon Frolick; our chairperson of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, His Excellency Comrade Charles Nqakula; hon members; Ministers, , especially the chairperson of our cluster, Minister Mapisa-Nqakula; Deputy Minister of State Security, Comrade Ellen Molekane and other Deputy Ministers who are here; our Deputy Chief Whip of the ANC, hon Comrade Dorries Dlakude; Chief Whip of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, Comrade J J Skhosana; hon Members of the MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 2 of 86 National Assembly and of the NCOP; members of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence; the Inspector-General of Intelligence, Dr Isaac Dintwe; the Director-General of State Security, Arthur Fraser; the entire State Security Agency leadership and members; veterans of the intelligence services; the Auditor-General of the Republic of South Africa, Mr T K Makwetu; the leadership of the ANC national executive committee members that are here; provincial secretaries; the youth league leadership that are here; alliance members and progressive youth alliance; Mahlobo and Molekane families; distinguished guests; comrades, friends and fellow South Africans. Hon Chairperson and members, during the celebration of our 23 years of our hard-won freedom and democracy, His Excellency President Zuma implored us into action as a nation to deal with the vestiges of colonialism and apartheid. In his speech at Georgetown University in 1987, the ANC President, Comrade O R Tambo had this to say: We seek to create a united, democratic and nonracial society. We have a vision of a South Africa in which black and white shall live and work together as equals in conditions of peace and prosperity. MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 3 of 86 As a country and her people, we are indeed on course; many of our citizens have access to basic services like water, housing, sanitation, roads, electricity, education, health care and social security services that they were denied before. However, we are the first to admit that more still needs to be done in the construction of this national democratic society. We can pride ourselves on the achievement of political freedom that includes universal suffrage, but economic freedom remains elusive. It is for in terms of this belief that our freedom is incomplete. In realising the ideals of the national democratic revolution, the ANC has decided on a radical socioeconomic transformation agenda as a path towards building a country that is not only united in diversity but also united in equality. The majority of our population in this country - that is, blacks in general, and Africans in particular - is economically disempowered and is already understandably impatient and dissatisfied with the lack of real economic gains from our freedom. These levels of poverty, inequality and unemployment are unacceptable, unsustainable and pose a serious security threat to our nation. In certain aspects of our democratic society, MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 4 of 86 we know that our country is experiencing a number of challenges that appear to be testing the strength and depth of our constitutional democracy. We need to have full confidence in the institutions of our democracy which our Constitution established, and we must be confident that these matters will be handled in a manner that doesn’t destabilise our country. As a nation, we have proven that, through our diversity and unity we can stand together and emerge as one people. Our collectivism and unity of purpose should be directed at defending and defeating the scourge of racism, tribalism, inequality, poverty and unemployment, and avoid a situation wherein the revolution is devouring its own children. Our mandate from the Constitution and other relevant laws regarding national security is securing South Africa’s sovereignty, territorial integrity, independence, her people, critical infrastructure, assets and interests. As we have indicated before in this House, in seeking to fulfil our legal mandate, we are always mindful of the need to find checks and balances to government’s use of excessively harsh measures towards citizens in the name of security while balancing human rights. MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 5 of 86 In South Africa, the checks and balances have been developed after the dawn of our democracy. Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the chairperson of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence and his team for concluding the work on the appointment of the new Inspector-General of Intelligence, our own Dr Isaac Dintwe. [Applause.] On behalf of the department and our family, we wish to convey our sincere congratulations to Dr Dintwe and wish him all the best in this important national task. There is no better way to celebrate the national security achievements to date than to rededicate the national intelligence structures to continue the good story of a further consolidation of our democracy through the creation of conditions of peace and stability that are necessary to make further improvements to the lives of all South Africans, as well as those in the SADC region, our continent and the rest of the world. I am once again reminded of the words of our former President, O R Tambo, at the 1969 Morogoro conference when he said and I quote: The victories of the national liberation movements were in most cases not easy, smooth and complete, nor was the retreat of the imperialists always unplanned or a complete defeat. MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 6 of 86 Imperialism resorted to many political, military, economic and other stratagems to extend its lease of life and to save as much as it could in its erstwhile colonies. Since the advent of our democracy, it has taken us so many years since these words were uttered by our President to witness their manifestation in our country and the world. The instability of the global environment will contribute to increasing strain on the economic, political, and security foundations of the international order that have underpinned global stability since the end of the Second World War. Economic instability, mass migration, political dysfunctionalism and foreign security crises have enabled the rise of populist movements, testing the commitment of a number of countries to pluralist values. In the context of these intracivilisation identity crises, the liberal international order faces increasing strain. State and nonstate actors will also seize the opportunity to undermine the legitimacy and control of governments and to promote their narrow interests. As a result, states will be forced to focus increasingly on threats within their borders, to the detriment of international co-operation. MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 7 of 86 As the security services, the thrust of our mandate is outlined in the National Development Plan, NDP, 2030 which is our vision and, I quote: In 2030, people living in South Africa should feel safe at home, at school and at work, and they should enjoy community life free of fear, women to walk freely in the street and children to play safely outside. In describing our current state of peace and stability in the country, our departure point as security services is that South Africa is relatively stable, notwithstanding our security assessment which identifies economic weaknesses as the major threat to our national security and interests. Chairperson and members, all of us would agree on our constitutionally enshrined rights of association, movement and protest…… In relation to the latter, our Bill of Rights provides, in Chapter 2: “Everyone has the right peacefully and unarmed, to assemble, to demonstrate, to picket and to present petitions”. A series of concerns have emerged around the perceived trend towards using fears about security to justify eroding human rights and freedoms. Finding a balance on how to effectively address security while respecting human rights constitute a key challenge of our time. MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 8 of 86 If we look back at the history of our own country in the struggle we can see that ours was a very violent nation - where people found their voices through various forms of protests that ended with blood on the floor. It was the darkest period in the history of our country. It can be argued that the violent nature of many protests in our country and the violent nature of certain crime categories in society today reflect the old violence which we come from as a nation. We therefore have to condemn any wanton destruction of property, vandalism and, at times, death that is associated with some protests. Last year we saw the proliferation of violent service delivery protests, violent student protests and violent industrial action. In addition, we have also witnessed violence in relation to demarcation issues, such as those witnessed in Vuwani, in Limpopo, where schools were burned down and destroyed. We’ve also noticed housing shortages that have culminated in increased incidents of land invasion, which have largely been politicised. Instability in the transport sector remains one of our challenges. The underlying conflict over ranks and routes is compounded by the involvement of security companies. The introduction of Uber, which has resulted in conflict with the MPS-BV07 16 MAY 2017 PAGE 9 of 86 metered-taxi industry, has further exacerbated conflicts in this sector.