CUBA: In Search of Freedom

Af7 Oral History Report of Cuba And Mrs. Bibi Hill Conducted By Alex Roman

For US in the Twentieth Century World with Mr. llaight

OH ROM J 2002

Roman, Alex Table of Contents

Contract.

Statement of Purpose //

Biography I

Historical Contextual]zation 2

Interview Transcription 9

Interview Analysis 35

Works Consulted 40 ST. ANDREW'S EPISCOPAL SCHOOL

INTERVIEWEE RELEASE FORM:

Tapes and Transcripts I, &\ln' A^ , do hereby give to the Saint Andrew's Episcopal name of mterviewee

School all right, title or interest in the tape-recorded iJiterviews conducted by

. I understand that these name of interviewer ' ' date(s)

interviews will be protected by copjTight and deposited in Saint Andrew's Library and Archives for the use of future

students, educators and scholars. I also understand that the tapes and transcripts may be used in public presentations

including, but not limited to, audio or video documentaries, slide-tape presentations, exhibits, articles or the world

wide web at tlie projects web site ww\v.doingoralhistory.org. This gift does not preclude any use that 1 myself want

to make of the information in these transcripts or recordings. The interviewee acknowledges that he/she

will receive no remuneration or compensation for either his/her participation in the ijiterview or for the rights

assigned hereunder.

CHECK ONE:

Tapes and transcripts may be used without restriction

Tapes and transcripts are subject to the attached restrictions (Typed)

INTERVIEWEE: i ^ INTERVIEWER:

Signature of Interviewee Signature /3y^/- hi ill e\ J^t.ohvj[\ Typed Name Typed Name

.ddress Address /^TkM cLf^^ MP Zo^i^ I -5/07^ HQX Date Date

8804 Postoak Road • Potomac, Maryland 20854 • {301) 983-5200 • Fax: (301) 983-4710 • http:/Avww.snes.org Statement of Purpose

The purpose of this project is to otitain a different perspective of history, which cannot be taught through a textbook. By performing this oral history report, I expect to learti more abotit immigration and Cuba. Cuba is another reason why 1 am conducting this report. My desire to continue learning about my Hispanic heritage continues as 1 wish to study the history and cuirent world of Cuba. 1 believe that throtigh this project, I will be able to carry out better interviews and improve my knowledge of the world outside of the United States, especially through various views.

u Biography

Silvia "Bibi" Hill was born on September 30, 1948 in Havana, Cul^a. At the time, her family owtied a vast territory in Cuba, allowing her father to work in the sugar business by owning a sugar mill and a sugar plantation. In addition to the sugar property, her family owned several other properties, including cattle ranches and real estate in

Havana and other provinces. She lived in Oriente, where the sugar plantation was, although her family also owned a house in Havana.

Tn her youth, her parents had employed a private tutor to teach her and her siblings basic material in the mornings and English, French and piano lessons in the afternoon. Furthermore, they owned horses, so they would ride nearly every day. She is the third of eight children, seven of which were born in Cuba, the last in Palm Beach,

Florida, following their escape from Cuba to the United States of America.

Her family's escape from Cuba was brought about due to several reasons. Some of the major include the further decline if Cuba's government and Fidel Castro's attempt to kill her father before he had any power. They left in July of 1959 to arrive at Palm

Beach, Florida, where they would live for four years. They then traveled to Connecticut, where she finished her high school, and then to Pittsburgh. Finally they moved to the

Washington area and have lived in Bethesda for twenty-one years.

After high school, Mrs. Hill attended Mar>'mount University where she majored in Fine Arts and graduated in 1969. She is now married to an American man, Nick, and has two daughters, Magdalena, twenty-one, and Alison, seventeen. She works as an

Assistant Director of Admissions at the Norwood School in Bethesda. Cuba in the United States

in 1957, merely 50,000 Ctibans resided in the United States of America. Within

the following 20 years, the amount of Cuban residents increased by approximately

1260% to roughly 680,000 Cubans throughotit the country opened to all people from all

over the world. According to Daniel Patrick Moynihan, at one point, these immigrants

were welcomed because labor was needed to meet the demands of the Industrial Age.

Therefore, these immigrants were only welcomed because they could help the American

economy, allowing it to easily become such a great superpower. Subsequently, the

following immigrants faced the discrimination of earlier immigrants who saw them as a

burden on the economy (Gernand 8). This shows that the United States was not truly in

agreement with the movement of having people from other countries join their one and

only homeland, yet were influenced by the idea tliat this migration would greatly aid tlie

economy and the counti-y's rank ainong the world.

Throughout the years, the United States has admitted entry to people from all

around the world. In the case of most Latin Americans, their decision to immigrate to

this country was mainly due to the economic aid one could obtain. Because of the

poverty and repression found in their native countries, they have emigrated in order to provide for their family, to give their children a brighter future, to escape the showers of

bombs and bullets of civil war, but most importantly for oppordmity. The United States was portrayed as one in which there were jobs for all, causing many foreigners to believe

that they would have a secured job upon their arrival. Althougii true, many jobs demanded too much time and effort for a lousy, meager wage, barely sufficient for their necessities such as food, rent, and clothing. As Charles Cozic states, "immigrants and others assert that the goal of most illegal immigrants is not to commit fraud but simply to work hard to support their families" (Cozic 12). In addition, one illegal immigrant from

Guatemala named Manuel said, "I have no money, my family is hungry. All Fm doing is making life possible": additionally. Roberto Arellano, once an illegal immigrant, said.

"There is still much more opportunity for advancement here [in the Untied States] than in

Mexico, and it is still possible to build a better life here" (Cozic 12). This illustrates that many people from different countries were willing to leave eveiMhing behind in their own native country to improve their life and be able to support their families. The decision to migrate to the United States had a strong purpose, the one that had been commercially made throughout the world: a better opportunity for everj'thing.

For the chance for a better life, many Cubans left their homes and came to the

United States. Much of this migration was carried out during Fidel Castro's reign of power, in order to survive and live a life of choices and optiojis. There were people, however, who were able to successfully leave the country before the horrible grasp of the dictator, Castro, disallowed Cuba's citizens to leave the country. After he had gained his power and declared his intentions, it was very difficult to leave the country, as he did not want to loose its original inhabitants. Many Cubans, as do most immigrants, believed that the United States offered more opportunity than their previous homeland. If Castro would not have become president, or dictator, of Cuba, the country would have had a much better opportunity to become a wealthy country.

As a result of the Piatt Amendment, which was due to the Spanish-American War of 1898, Cuba had not gained its original goal for the war. independence. Along with the help of its northern ally, the United States. Cuba was able to defeat the Spanish, yet not completely capable of enjoying freedom, which was its main objectise. The United

States claimed a major role in the war with Spain and therefore took advantage of this

factoi- by forcing Cuba to allow American soldiers to remain on the island until it felt

Cuba was ready to govern itself lasting four years, when the United States Army finally

' left in 1902. However. "Cuba drafted a constitution based upon that of the United States

but was coerced by the American government into adopting a series of humiliating

agreements, known collectively as the Piatt Amendment"' (Gernand 29). This influence

on Cuba's new government, greatly persuaded by that of the American, proved that Cuba

was not actually liberated, but taken over once again by a stronger country. The Piatt

Amendment gave the United States control of Cuba's trade, foreign policy, right to

intervene for Cuba's "independence", and authorization to construct a naval base on

Guantanamo Bay (Gernand 29). Cuba's trade, especially its two main exports, sugar and

tobacco, were drastically distorted by the restrictions and control held by America. As

Cuban journalist Carlo Franqui wrote, the new republic "was born deformed because it

existed in order to produce sugar and wealth for U.S. investors" (Gernand 29). This

joinnalist publicized the obvious, that Cuba's wealth and economy was being screened by

the United States when they took portions of the pvofn due to the Piatt Amendment.

Cuba's necessity on the United States weakened the hopes of the inliabitants to be

independent.

The population regarded their homeland as a protectorate and its government

officials submitting to corruption. Finally, in 1925. the country's leadership got to the

worst when Gerardo Machado obtained presidency and "Inaugurated a reign so bloody

that the United States intervened in order to prevent revolution in Cuba" (Gernand 30). After ignoring the demands of the American government to relinquish his command,

American ambassador Sumner Wells spread woid to the Cuban armed forces that the

United States would advocate the displacement of Machado. hi August 1933, Cuban army sergeant Fulgencio Batista y Zaldivar carried out a coup d'etat against President

A'lachado, forcing him to leave the country.

For the following seven years, five different men assumed Cuba's presidency, wliile Batista ruled as Army Chief of Staff from 1934 to 1940. In 1934. Batista secured

United States agreement to the annulment of the Piatt Amendment, with the exception of leasing Guantanamo Bay. Also during his reign of Army Chief of Staff, he served the country well by improving health care, building schools, instituting a massive public

works ]3rogram thai led to the constrtiction of parks and museums, instituting a minimum work w^age, and legalizing labor unions. In 1940, Cubans adopted a new liberal constitiuion, prodticing a plan for a democratic and progressive government, and elected

Batista as president, however, this constitution prevented him from seeking re-election in

1944: and Ram6n Grau San Martin became president, followed by Carlos Prio Socarras in 1948. Knowing that he could not win the next elections, in 1952, Batista carried ont another coup d'etat and became dictator to Cuba, allowing the country to grow piosperous. He stressed the development of light industry and encouraged foreign

companies to build businesses in Cuba. He also established badly needed public works, yet most Cubans continued to live in poverty.

As a result of Batista's seizure of power, many Cubans were strongly against his

presidency of Cuba. Therefore, on July 26, 1953. Fidel Castro, a young layer from the

University of Havana, planned an attack on Batista on the Moncada Barracks, a military base at Santiago, in eastern Cuba. His army consisted of a mere 111 men and 2 women

against the 1.000 soldiers present supporting Batista. The unsuccessful attack resulted in his imprisonment until Batista granted a general amnesty in 1955. Castro moved shortly to Mexico, where, with money collected horn exiles in the United States, he organized and trained a military force including his brother, Raul, and an Argentine i-evoliuionary named Ernesto "Che" Guevara, that he named the "26"' of July Movement". He returned to Cuba on December 2, 1956 with his small group, consisting of 83 men, that was decreased to 11 after landing, and was forced to seek cover in the Sierra Maestra. There, a gueirilla band was formed to cany out siuprise attacks against the Cuban government.

In 1957, Castro's forces began to attack military groups and to explode bridges and railroad tracks. The government's attemjits to cease the revolution increased the public's support of the rebels. By mid 1958, Cubans had lost confidence in Batista's government, and Batista left the country, allowing Castro's forces to take control of the government.

The United States was not willing to confront Cuba at the time because when the change of power was being conducted in Cuba, American President Ike Eisenliowei" was faced with the conflict "against the action of Britain and France in pursuing what they conceived to be their vital interest by occupying the Suez Canal Zone" (Johnson 860).

Because of this problem, Eisenhower felt as if the conflict in Cuba was too close to home.

Although many plans where thought of. none were carried out dining his presidency

(Jolmson 861). According to Paul Jolinson, "Ike...would have waited for Castro to make

the kind of false move which would have allowed America to intervene openly and

legally, with its own forces, in a carefully planned professional air, land, and sea

operation" (Johnson 861). This shows how President Eisenhower was different than other presidents, like for example, John F. Kennedy who, as said to his brother Bobby, "would rather be called an aggressor than a biun" (Johnson 861). These two completely different personalities were seen when the invasion of the Bay of Pigs was executed on April 1 7,

1961.

At first, the United States supported Castro's movement to overtliiow Batista's government but Castro did not welcome the United States' support. He took American owned sugar estates and cattle ranches, causing relations between the two counties to decline drastically. Castro looked to the Soviet for economic and military aid. which was generously given. In June of 1960. Castro's government took American oil refineries in

Cuba, causing the United States to stop purchasing their sugar. Castro's government reacted by taking over all the remaining American business in Cuba. In January 1961. the United States ended diplomatic relations with Cuba, in addition to restricting travel to

Cuba by American citizens.

"Castro's loss of popularity sparked an exodus of Cuba's most educated citizens: professionals, intellectuals, and skilled workers fied to the shores of nearby Florida"

(Gemand 40). With the surge of Cuban exiles, the United States was pressured to launch a military assault against their homeland in order to reclaim it from Castro. Competing against the Soviet Union for global domination, the United States, give in to the exiles' request to overthrow Castro's government. United States President John F. Kennedy

"approved a plan for the exiles to receive military training fiom the Central Intelligence

Agency" to attack Castro (Gernand 40). At last, on April 17, 1961, roughly 1,500 Cuban exiles landed in Cuba's Cochina's Bay, the Bay of Pigs: only to be overpowered by Castro's massive army, killing 129 rebels, and captimng 1,180 prisoners. Subsequently,

Castro announced on May 1. 1961. that Cuba was a Marxist-Leninist state.

In 1962. Cuban leaders became convinced that the United States was planning an attack on Cuba. Theiefore. they asked the Soviet Union for further military aid. The request was fulfilled by sending missiles and materials to build launch sites. In October, the United States learned that Cuba had missile bases, capable of launching nuclear attacks on American cities. Faced with the options of a naval blockade of Cuba, an invasion or direct air strike on the island, or a settlement through the United Nafions;

Kennedy chose to set up a blockade to slop the shipment of arms on October 22. 1962.

The Soviet Union denied having sent the nuclear missiles to the small. Cuban island, yet the United States sent the United Nation pictures taken from a U-2 plane showing the missile base. Two days later, Soviet Premier Nikita S. KJirushchev sent a letter to the

United States stating that the Soviet Union would remove the missiles if the United States agreed not to invade Cuba.

Ever since Cuba was officially independent fiom Spain, its presidents and rulers have not been completely successftil in providing its citizens with prosperity and wealth.

Be"innin£r with Fultrencio Batista, Cuba has had several ineffective rulers, which is one main reason as to why many of its occupants have decided to leave the country, in search for a better opportunity. The public was so desperate for their children to have a good education and a free life that they would send them off to the United States, often alone.

For example, as Time expressed. "At Havana's Jose Marti Airport last week, adults witli airplane tickets were implored to give their seats to children. Some Pan American flights arri\'ing in Miami have as many as 60 children" (Time, 41). Interview Transcription

ALEX ROMAN: Today is January 5, 2002. My name is Alex Roman and Fm going to inteiA'iew Mrs. Bibi Hill at her house at eleven-fifteen a.m.

Where were your parents from?

BIBI HILL: My parents were born in Cuba, both of them.

AR: What kind of people were your parents?

BH: Wonderful people, very devoted to their family, my father was a very hardworking person, very successful.

AR: What was his job?

BH: We owned a sugar mill, and a sugar plantation, along with other properties, including cattle ranches; just real estate in Havana, as well as other provinces of Cuba.

AR; Describe your childhood.

BH: 1 was born in Havana, where we had a house, but we lived in Oriente, which is the eastern most province, and that's where our sugar mill and our sugar plantation was, so that is where we lived. I come from a big family, there were eight children in my family, seven of them born in Cuba, the last one was born in Palm Beach, Florida. My older brother and sister were in boarding school in Havana, and my sister, Peggy, and I are close in age. We, as I said, lived in the sugar mill; we had a governess who taught us at home. It was actually quite a sheltered life. My younger siblings were much, much younger that we were, so we really pretty much played by ourselves, and we had a cousin who was there, you know, some of the time, iier parents traveled around a great deal. We would go to Havana several times a year, spent the summer at the beach in Banadero. As for everyday, you know. life, we had classes in the morning with oiu" go\erness. In the afternoons we had English. French, and piano lessons, [short pause] We had horses, so we rode horses almost everyday. M that point [Fidel] Castro had already arrived in Cuba, so there really was a great deal of turmoil- do you want me to go on to. you blow, my family history vista veer Castro? Or do you want me to wait for thai?

AR: No, I think it's fine, go ahead.

BH; When Castro landed in Cuba, initially in the mid fifties, he landed in a spot called Belie, and Belie belonged to my family, so we had Castro on our properly from the very beginning. I think for the most part, people in Cuba did not realize what Castro was about, everyone was veiy dissatisfied with the dictator at the moment, whose name was [Fulgencio] Batista, who leally was a very corrupt man and had taken over the government by force. And so in order lo gel rid of Batista, they really embraced Casti'o, not really understanding what it was that he was all about. He did not admit to being a communist or a socialist for quite some time. He was already in power where when one day he got up and admitted he was a communist and everybody couldn't believe it. Bui anyway, we had had obviously first hand experience. As he got closer to our sugar mound, there was a lot of disruption: setting fire to the sugar cane: sniping at my father's car with, you know with a rifle because Castro, he knew that my father was very much against him and was really very vocal about.

AR: He would do that personally, or would he hire people to do it for him?

BH: He had a whole band, he was reciiiiting people. It's the old communist thing, "oh my gosh, these people have so much, and you don't have anj'thing, and I'm going to take everything from them and we're going to divide it among all of you." And in the end. really, no one has anything, he has run a perfectly wealthy, wonderful country into the giound. they can't even support themselves. So that's what my childhood was like. I guess probably at the age of nine and a half we had to leave the sugar-cane plantation because it had gotten too dangerous, so at that point we moved to our house in Havana

10 and waited until the summei- of 1959 lo mo\e to the United-States. We \ery much wanted my older sister and my older brother to fiiiish their school-year in Ha\ ana so thai they could start again here in the fall. So in July of 1959. we moved to Palm Beach. Florida, and that's wiierc we lived.

AR: How did you come?

BH: We came by airplane. Actually, we left the sugar mill. 1 can't really tell you what date it was. I remember leaving in the dark. We had a couple of small pri\ate planes that my father used for business. My mother left with the younger children by plane thai night, and we left also, and my sister Peggy and I spent the night with my grandmother at, you know, a business property where there was, obviously, a house where we could stay while we wailed for. you loiow. a flight of a big commercial airline. Thai was in Manzanillo. to Havana the next day. And then we stayed in Havana until the school-year was finished for my older sister and my older brother, and we moved to Florida.

AR: Were you in the middle of your family?

BH: I'm the third of eight children. At that point, we were only seven. There are four older ones, then there's a big space of about six or seven years, and then three younger sisters, and then my youngest brother was born in palm beach Florida, after we moved into exile

AR: What was life like in the rest of Cuba?

BFL Well, you know, it was a wonderful life, I realized that there was obviously a great discrepancy between those who have so much and those people who didn't have as much, but that's always going to be the way life is, in every country. I mean we're fooling ourselves if we think everything's going lo be equal, that's just not the way life is. You know, we had a wonderful life, we had wonderful properties, wonderful houses, we lived obviously very comfortably. The climate was ideal. The country, you know, as far as

It agriculture was. you kno\\'. wonderful, you could gi'ow most everything, produce most ever>thing. At that time. Cuba was known as ihe Sugar Bowl of the world because so much of the w^orld's sugar was grown there. You could grow tobacco, wonderful tobacco, famous for its cigars. Lots of coffee. Lots of cattle. Many, many American companies had franchises, or factories, or whatever, there. The Cuban peso, which is tlie currency, at that time was equal to the American dollar, and as a matter of fact, we could use the change to pay. In other words, the Cuban nickel was very similar in size lo the American nickel, or pemiies, or whatever, and we were able to. you know, that currency. American currency down there lo pay for things. That ob\iously is not the case anymore [ciiucklcs]. Yeah, it was a wonderful life.

AR: Describe a litde of the architecture of Cuba. What were the houses like?

BH: Well, you have everything from the most ornate, you know. European style architecture in Ha\'ana to what we call bolhUos. which aie the little huts, where the country people lived, and those were made of wood and they had patched roofs: in other words, they would use the palm from sticks lo make the roofs. Beautiful architecture, again in Havana, there was a wonderful European flare in certain neighborhoods. It was a beautiful city.

AR: What caused you and your family to immigrate to the United States from Cuba?

BH: Well, the fact that becau.se we had been in the position wc were, in other words. owning the land Castio was in, we felt very threatened and very imsafe and we had no choice but to leave. I can't think of what would have happened if we had stayed, 1 mean Castro was actively trying to kill my father. I should also say that my father was not a supporter of Batista and. you know, was actually against Batista as well because Batista was a very corrupt man. So he was neither for Castro nor for Batista.

AR: Do vou think race was a major issue in Cuba?

12 BH: Race?

AR: Race.

BH: 1... I don't know. 1 don't think it was. If you mean blacks against whites and that kind of thing, no. I don't think it was. Then again. Fm looking at it obviously from a very skew point. And again. I was very young. 1 don't think race was the issue. 1 diink it was more the "have's" versus the "have-nots". And I think that Castro and his people really exploited that particular issue, and 1 mean it was just "Look at how much these people have, and you have nothing". You know there's nothing like getting people all riled up to get a good going, and so 1 think that's what it was. 1 think it was more the "have's" against the "have-nots", that race.

AR: While you were young and fust saw America, what was your reaction?

BH; Oh 1 thought it was beautiful. Again, we moved into beautiful community. We arrived in Palm Beach Florida, and moved into our house right on the Atlantic Ocean, so we had the ocean right on our front door. Again a very sheltered existence. A fairly small commiuiity, we went to an all-giiis school. It was lovely. My parents traveled a great deal to the United States. Both my parents spoke English. My father was educated in Canada, my mother came from British ancestors, so we had learned English, we spoke, basically, you know rudimentary English, but of course by time we've been in school for six months, our English was pretty much up lo speed. So we thought it was wonderful, we made friends, 1 thought it was lovely. I mean there was nothing not to like, obviously we had lost a great deal and realized that our country was in turmoil you feel like you're living in exile. I mean obviously at that age, you are aware that your parents are feeling very anxious about the way things are going. We never really thought that the time that we would be in exile for forty- its going to be forty-three years this year. I mean we thought this would be one of those things that would eighteen months, two years, we'd keep living in Palm Beach and he would, you know. Castro's government would eventually crumble and we'd be able to move back, here we are, forty-three years later.

13 AR: Still waiting.

BH: Still wailing. 1 know. Its incredible. He's amazing, he's just amazing. [An] incredible manipulator.

AR: At first, did you prefer Cuba or the United States?

BH: Um. [pause] I mean obviously w-e missed our country, we were able to leave with nothing. I mean our bank accounts were frozen, our proj:)crties were confiscated. My sister Pessiv and I had a wonderful dou. a biu black Great Dane whose name was Winnie, we had to leave that behind, we left all our toys behind, you know as a child that makes a big difference, but obviously we also arrived in Florida and lived in a very comfortable house, and all dial, so it's not like you were just climbing away. Sure we missed it. we missed, you know, not having our horses, and not being able to ride in the morning, and not having the freedom thai wc had growing up with. Bui no. no. 1 wouldn't say that I miss it so horribly, I mean, you know, you miss some things. Actually it's interesfing, my parents really have brought us up to be very adaptable, you just, you do what you have to do, actually that's pretty much my father's modo. "you do what you have to do". And you don't complain, and you don't moan, you know, just do your duty.

AR: Was it easy to gel used to life in the US?

BH: Yeah, it was easy. We made, you know, friends, you know, when you're ten years old, I was turning eleven that September, you know, you're fairly young. I think what was hardest for me. certainly, is, this is going to sound so fiinny. I have never been to school with other kids before, we had always had our governess at home, here 1 was in a foreign country, speaking a foreign language, going to school with other kids in a classroom for the first time ever, [chuckles] I was thinking "You know what. I'm not sure I really like this that much". So that took some getting used to. But at the same lime, in the community where we were living, I had lots of my, you know, my parents friends and

14 family had moved there as well so we had a, certainly, a gi'oup of friends that we had known for many years, you know, generations that know each other. I think the school issue was the hardest, the hardest to get used to. more than an\thing else. You know, just going to school after you started school at home and all of that. I mean, getting thrown into this group. And again it was an all girls' school.

AR: Were you thrown off by the size of the school, the amount of students in it?

BH: Oh sure. I mean, when you're used lo going lo being taught, you and your sister by someone, it's hard lo be in a classroom with twenty kids. So I didn't like that much, al all [chuc/iles]. But. you know, everything else was fine, we made fiiends and did certainly have play-dates, and that kind of thing.

AR: Did you continue to study the same material that you did in Cuba?

BH: Well, you know...No! 1 mean, obviously in Cuba the focus had been on Cuban history, and again these are the primary grades that are really getting a very limited amoinil. But when we moved here, there were so many things that we had missed. For example. I had no clue why there were, how many stripes were in the American flag, or why. You know, I knew there were a whole bunch of stripes I never really bothered to know they were the thirteen original colonies. In other words, lots of the little backgi'ound things that you learn in your primary grades, we didn't have: and we had to learn. Also, in Spanish you really spell things exactly the W'-ay they are pronounced. And in English you don't do that. So the spelling was an enormous adjustment. And lots of the rules, the giammar rules, we didn't know, for example, "1 before 'e' except after 'c'." All those little tricks that you had learned in the primary grades that helped yoti oiu with your spelling, 1 mean, we had no clue. So, you laiow, that took some getting used to.

AR: What did you do when you first came to the US?

IS BH: Well it was summer, we came in Jtily so we spent the rest of the summer, you know, lots swimming and we had played with friends and then in September we started at this new school for the first time. And w'e had neighbors who lived very close by. and we earpooled with them. It \\as funny, when it was my mother's turn, we would go [to school] by car. when it was the neighbor's turn, we w'ould commute by boat. Long Beach is an island and you've got the lake and you've got the ocean. .'Xnd so we would commute by boat and we used to think it was the biggest, biggest bore, and the biggest drag because it would take so long to get to school, by boat, and it's just that you have to go very slowly. Course now I realize. "Gosh, what a treat, we were going to school by boat. How fun was that?" But at the time it was. you know, just like, it would lake forever, and we'd lia\'e to leave the house a little earlier, all that. So funny [chucJdes].

AR: Did you continue to learn about Cuba within the United States?

BH: No. no there was no emphasis in- I mean, obviously my parents didn't want me to forget my Spanish, and certainly my roots: btU there was no emphasis on Ctiba in the curriculum that we were studying, [sliorl pause] Although, [sliort pause] at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis, we were living in Palm Beach and certainly got a sense for what was going on and that part of Cuban history, there. But no, there was no emphasis on Cuba in the curriculum we were studying.

AR: What was your reaction to the Missile Crisis?

BH: Actually it was scaty because I think everybody realized just how close we were to Cuba, I mean basically we were down in Key West, we were obviously not that far down but if you're down in Florida, you're fairly close to Cuba - you're ninety miles away! And I think there was a real sense of urgency that the situation evoked. Dangerous and tempting, sometimes.

AR: And how did vou hear about the Bavof Pisis invasion?

16 BH: My father was involved in the Bay of Pigs invasion. My father went down in the Bay of Pigs invasion - as did. actually, lots of other men that we knew who wanted very much to liberate their country and felt, you know, responsible to try to do something about it. So he w-ent to die Bay of Pigs and he was capt ~ he was mugged, and then he was killed because so many Cuban men who went were killed. He was in a concentration cam])... that was a really horrible time, we had no idea what they had done to him and we were fortunate that he was able to get out alive.

AR: How was he rescued?

BH: We had to pay a ransom. My family liad to pay one hundred thousand dollars to the Castro govenmient to get him out.

AR: And then he went back to the United States with you?

BH: Yes, he came back to the United States. They basically put prices on all of the prisoners' heads. And some weie more, and some were less. And. you know, we were one of the families that could pay and so we did.

AR: In Cuba, is there a lot of anger towards the Americans?

BH: I suspect that there is some anger, there is a great deal of anger that is encouraged by the Castro government towards the Americans. 1 tiiink that for the most part, a lot of people live in fear that if they dissent, they will be arrested. Yeah, I think people, probably, terribly dissent the embargo and unfortunately the embargo, well I mean, hasn't worked for forty-five years and it isn't going to work: and what it really does it really hurts the people, there are lots of ways that people get aroiuid it.... Actually, not only in Miami, all over, who send dollars to their relatives and who want a way for their relatives to be able to find a way to buy what they need. Obviously, those dollars eventually go to the Castro government as people paying for what they need. I think it's hard for people. It's hard for the people to be vocal, and I think that the government is constantly talking

17 down and cridcizing the United States and saying, "Yankee Imperialists and blah. blah, blah." and so forth, ^'ou know, some people really buy it without question, but people just have to go along with it because if they dissent, they're put to an end.

AR: How often do you think of Cuba?

BH: To tell you the truth, really not that often. I mean. I've grown up here: I've been, for the most part, educated here: Fm married lo an American. Obviously, my children are American. So, you know, as much as 1 try lo keep my children aware of their Cuban roots. 1 don't think about it everyday. Fm certainly proud of it!

AR: How do you try to keep them aware of it? Do you teach them the history?

BH: Certainly, they know a great deal of their ancestors and their grandparents and their great-grandparents. They've seen picttires they've both studied Spanish, my older dau"htcr, Mafia is fluent, other daughter is working on beiim fluent. I'd really like for them to be fluent. They feel a great deal of pride about being Cuban, and 1 want them to.

AR: Do you have any regrets about leaving Cuba?

BH: No - well, yes and no. Yes because we left so much behind, [yet] I wonder what would have hap]5ened if we had stayed and fought, but I have a feeling thai we would have suffered terrible loss of life in my family, which we had. And no. 1 love this country, and I'm an American citizen, I consider this my country. You know it's interesting, for years, every time that there is an Olympics, and, you know, these Cuban players, the boxers, the soccer players, baseball players, and so on, friends will often ask me if I root for the Cuban teams. I don't, 1 root for the American teams, this is my country. If that answers yoiu" question.

AR: Yes. Would you ever think about going back and staying? Possibly if Castro stepped down?

18 BH: You know it's funny, for years I said that I would never go back, and then my sister went back on business, she's an attorney in New York, and she went back on a client's business, and w^hen she came home, she said we really should all see it to understand exactly what it is diat has happened, there. And actually my husband, who is American, would very much like to go. as would my children, so 1 expect al this point I'll probably be dragged down there to see it. 1 would have to say of the four of us. in our immediate family, I'm probably the most reluctant to go down, but I suspect that we probably will at some point.

AR: Historian Studs Terkel said that. "Race is America's obsession". Do you believe it could be said that race was not Cuba's obsession?

BH: 1 don't think race was Cuba's obsession. Obviously from my limited knowledge.

AR: Do you think thai that changed?

BH: That's not to say that if w^e ever go back it might not be. I would tell you that when the Spaniards came to Cuba, they killed every single native [chuckles] in the name of the Catholic religion. Everybody who wouldn't convert would be either burned at the stake or killed. So there really were very few natives left. I mean it was one of those islands where there was a real winding out of being a native. There were a lot of families that came from European countries. There were Afi'icans that brought to work on these plantations. You know. 1 guess it depends on who you ask. I would have to say no that race is not an issue; but if you ask somebody else, they might say it was.

AR: Is Cuba diverse?

BH: Yeah, I think it is. 1 think it's quite diverse, in that you have a black population that is quite strong. A lot of whites, most of them, not most of them, but a lot of whom came

19 from Spain, hi my family in particular, it was Spain and England, Scotland, actually. But I think you had a really diverse country, different cultui-es

AR; What do you think of immigration in the United States?

BH: Well, I think that this is a coiuitry that has certainly opened its arms to everybody. And I think that's wonderful. Although certainly, in the last few months, since September 11. that has come back to haunt us. 1 mean, we've obviously opened our arms to people who are obviously unfriendly and had a great deal of hostility towards this country. I don't know how you control that, but 1 do think in a way w'c do need to be aware. 1 mean, this is a wonderful country that has a lot to offer. It upsets me when I hear people crificize this country because I don't think people understand just how they really got heie. There's so much wc take for granted, and perhaps. I don't take it for granted because I'm not a natural American. I came here at age ten because 1 had to flee my country, and we were certainly welcomed with open hands. There are lots of places for people to go if they're unhappy, but when you think about it. the freedom diat we have here, we now have people who are criticizing that fact that these people who are in custody, whom 1 would cerlaiuly consider, some of them, terrorists, aren't getting their rights. What rights!? Give me a break! Anybody who feels that way should go down to Ground Zero in New York and take a look at what's been done. Which actually we did, this December we went down to Ground Zero, I guess it was December 27" to the 29'\ to one of the buildings to see what had been done. It is sixteen acres of devastation. Everyone should see it. who thinks these people aren't getting their rights.

AR: Did that intensify your anger, or feelings?

BH: It just made me aware. You see it on the news over, and over again, and, you know, [New York] Mayor Giuliani there and people walking through it. You can't imagine the enormity of it. It is sixteen acres. Sixteen acres is an euormous amount of land! And ever>'thing is gone. There is uothing left. It is absolutely astonishing. So it's, it's um.

New Yoik Mayor Rutlolpli W. Giuliani fiom 1994-2001.

20 boy, I can't even tell you how it felt. I was astonished. 1 just couldn't believe it. after seeing it on TV so many times and then in person. And to see the trucks coming out of there, with these huge pieces twisted metal. I guess, maybe, it's the fi]"st time we'\e ever really been attacked in this country. Yoti know, anybody who's worried about rights better go and take a look down there.

AR: What do you think should be done now. as a result of that, in order to prevent another attack?

BH: Well. gosh, it's the biggest job in the world [chuckles], that's the toughest question in the world. I don't know. But again, you were asking about immigration, we've opened our arms to all these people who are now living here, and you know they've trained to fly airplanes here. We've basically intricated the training people to do this to us. We're such innocents. So naive to have thought that it wouldn't happen here, not lo worry that it would happen here. It happens evei^'where else. I mean, it happens ail over Europe. People have learned to live with terrorist acts in every country. I guess we should have a look around.

AR: Some people have said that the United States brought this upon themselves. Do you agree with that?

BH: Well, I would have to say that it's, you know, that's a real foreign policy question and I think it's very hard for us to understand [pause] that our foreign policy might be so misinterpreted, or whatever, [pause] You know to have people - I don't know, I can't, I cannot really speak about foreign policy issues. 1 do understand that there is a lot of ill will towards this country, obviously with this [attack on America]. And again you can have someone like bin Laden to stir ]:)eople up and say some hoirible things. You knov\', nothing like a good religious cause. Lots has been done in the name of religion. I mean, when you think of the Crusades and the Inquisition oh my Gocl\ Even in Cuba, as I was telling you earlier, the Spaniards come and anybody who would not convert to Catholicism was burned at the stake, or w^as killed in some way. All of that in the name

21 of religion, what's that about? So I guess it's easy for charismatic figures to rally the group to a cause. You know, it's easy to manipulate amounts of people, I cannot, I cannot really, [pause] I cannot really speak about foreign policy. Fm not a critical person in this country. I have a lot to be thankful for. [I'm] sick of guessing and criticizing, [pause] I'll say one good thing though, in has certainly brought a lot of people together and certainly made Americans appreciative of what we have in this country; the freedoms that we have, and the bounty that we have. And it has made everybody more patriotic. More patriotic is more appreciative. And that's not allowed. You know, srood instead of bad. and I cuess that's one of the good things. ijWW... ,.I.,L^,>..V. U. ...«^.. I...U . ^W^-J^. I..W. ^ ^..^ v., t..^ w,^

AR: More recently, you see more immigi"ants. before September I l"\ you see many more Hispanics. In this one book I have, of illegal immigi'ation, the author speaks of two people -

BH: Of whom?

AR: Two people

BH: Yeah

AR: One an illegal person from Guatemala, named Manuel. He says. "I have no monej', my family is hungry, all Fm doing is making life possible. And then, another man. Roberto Arellano, a former illegal immigrant, said, "there is still much more opportunity for advancement here, than in Mexico and it is still possible to build a better life here". Do you agree with that?

BH: Well, I think these people have this, I don't know how to tell you, it's hard for me to comment on this, sometimes they have a very unrealistic expectation of what life here will be, they think that United States and life will be wonderful and "Fll be able to get trabq/o '^ and 1 think people come here and really struggle, not really understanding that.

Spanish woid meaning "job."

22 I mean, obviously you have many obstacles to overcome.... [pause] the whole illegal immigiant situation, I tliink. is so. you know, so difficult, [pause] They come and they have so little and [pause] and they have such great expectations, you know it's almost like the American dream, and not everybody is going to have the American dream. [pause] 1 don't know. I don't really know what to tell you about it. It's very hard. 1 guess for them - the second man, the Arellano man. sounds like, perhaps, his life might be better here. But I think that it can be very, very dull and particularly when you're illegal because then you don't have any of those privileges, do you know what I mean? That would be available lo somebody who was here legally and had the proper papers. [pause] I think it's hard because so many come with such unreal expectations, always thinking that life is going to be much better here, and in fact it isn't, it can be very hard here, if you don't make it. .And it's hard, sometimes, to make it here. Do you agree with that, or not?

AR: Yeah, yes I do. It can be very difficult.

BH: Very difficult, [pause] But how- do you talk all these people? Out of coming?

AR: I understand some of the people. 1 know^ a couple of people who are illegal who are working here in order to go get money and send it back to their country just because their country is so bad and [they] need more money there.

BH: But the problem is, you know, if they lose their job, or they get sick, or they do this or that, or other things, [pause] benefits, privileges that are available to people who are here legally, or people who are residents here, or people who are citizens, won't be available to them, and so where are you if you get sick and you don't have health-care, oh my God! There's no where to turn, but I guess it's kind of hard to explain, [pause] And actually this country does not get along with half this ancestry type of situation where they invite anyone who's here, illegally, to, sort of declare themselves and they would be able to have the proper papers.

2S AR: Do you agree with that? Or do you think they should get deported?

BH: Well, [sigh] [pause] [sigli] it's hard for me to that say people should be deported when 1 came as an immigrant and 1 was embraced, [pause] But 1 think that there's just so much we can do. as a country. And there's just so much that we can give. 1 don't know, I guess it's educating people that life is really not as simple, you know, the American dream [chuckles] is not something that's going to fall in everybody's lap, in other words.

AR: What was your American dream?

BH: [pause] What was my American dream? Oh I ha\e no idea. Because 1 \\as ten, I guess I didn't have an .'\meriean dream. 1 had a wonderful life. 1 grew up in a wonderful farm. I went to great schools. My family, my immediate family, and actually more than my immediate family, even extended family, were able to get out at the very beginning.

AR: So it wasn't just your family here?

BH: No. no, my extended family, initially as well. I mean, there was no way we could stay. Theie was no way we could stay. There was no way we could stay in Cuba and be safe; we had to leave.

AR: Was that just because of Castro that you could not stay?

BH: That was just because of Castro that we could not stay, yes.

AR: At first, how did you feel when Castro took over control of Cuba? Because Batista was also a pretty bad president.

BH: Horrible. But we knew that Castro would be worse. Because with Batista, he was horrible, and he was corrupt, and he stole, and he was a dishonest person: but we lived

24 there and we put up with it. But with Castro we knew we had to leave. There was no way we could stay or my father would have been killed, and probably some of us as well. Our life was in danger, it was not an option.

AR: But weren't you happy with the 26"' of July Movement?

BH: No! Absolutely not!

AR: In which Castro-

Bli'.No!

.\R: - look away from Batista

BH: No! We were not happy, we knew what was coming, we had him on our land burning our property and sniping at my father! We were not happy, we were horrified, frankly. And anybody who thinks otherwise is mistaken. 1 mean really. They have been j3roved wrong. I mean, Cuba is not a third world country because of Castro. Because of Castro. It's the same old thing, communism does not work.

AR: So you knew him before he took overpower?

BH: Of course! He landed on our property in the mid fifties. We had the whole revolution on our back yard. He was horrible from day one. Horrible. Did awful things. So no, we were defuiiiely not ha])py with the 26'*^ of July Movement. And those who were happy were probably pretty dissatisfied shortly after.

AR: Right. For American immigration, in 1994. the state of California approved Proposition 187, which denied public education, healthcare, and welfare benefits to illesial immiirrants and their US born children. What do vou think of that?

2S BH: Well, again, I don't really get involved in policies, and natural policies, and immigiation, or anything like that: but I will answer it by saying if these people are here illegally, how far are we willing to stretch ourselves for somebody who is willing to break the law to get into this country? How much money are we willing to put out to pay welfare benefits and all of this stuff for people who are here illegally? [pause] 1 mean, how wonderful can wc be everybody? Everybody who has a problem comes to the US to borrow money, to get money, we are supposed to solve everybody's problems. We're supposed to. you know, be all things to everybody: if there's a hurricane, the United States sends aid; if there's an earthquake, we're the first to sends our firefighters, whatnot to help.

AR: Are you against that?

BH: No. 1 just sometimes think that we are too generous and people are not thankful enough for it. In lots of ways, people really resent the United States because of everything that we have. So at what point are we spreading ourselves too thin? To offer so much to people who are here illegally. I guess I see the reason why that law was passed. If they're heie illegally, why are we paying them welfare benefits, they're not supposed to be here to begin with!

AR: But you don't feel compassion that they're escaping their country for a good reason, that maybe there is too much corruption, or maybe too many people are dying.

BH: Then go tluough the proper channel to get in. I think this country opens their arms to just about everybody. Or we try to. Go tlirough the proper channels, like everybody else, [pause] And in the end. you wdl have the welfare benefits, the healthcare, the public education for your children, but go through the proper channels, [pause] I'm sure not everybody agrees with me.

AR: Can I tiet vour reaction to this comic that's in this liook ?

Cozic, diaries. Illegal InnnJgiation: Opposing Viewpoints. S;ni Diego: Gieenhavcn Press. 1996. P. 72

26 BH: It's sad thai we tend to rely on these people for all of the menial help. I guess. In other words, we don't want them here, but we can't live without them. It's hard. And 1 guess people assume that that's what every Latin American is here, in that capacity, which isn't true. And ifs interesting. Yeah, basically, don't want them here, but can't live with out them. t>'pe of situation. Sad. What do you think about it? I mean, the man is saying, "Now he's out of here, but do you Icnow how he started the mower." And the woman is saying, "No. but do you know where Isabelle kept the diapers for the baby?" So in other words you're relying on them for all your menial tasks.

AR: As you said, they really need them.

BH: Can't live with them, can't live without them.

AR: Seems like they need to rely on other people to do their work.

BH: Riuht. to do some of the diincs. the menial work.

[referring to some pictures of Cuba that Bibi Hill had]

BH: ...It had huge gates and a beautiful hedge. This was the front door. It now has banana trees and look at this [points at picture], total destruction.

AR: Is this the first house you lived at?

BH: This is our house in Havana. This is the front porch of the house. This was a beatuiful garden, absolutely beautiful. This is the walk-joint to the gardens. People's laundry and chickens and ever>'thing all crumbled up.

27 .'VR: Did you have any animals?

BH: No. we had dogs that were pets, but other than that, no we had none, [pause] This is what they've done to di\ide the floor. 1 should say that there are now thirty-three, thirty families living in this house.

AR: In the one house?

BH: In the one house. So what they've done is they've divided the very tall ceilings into two and divided the rooms into partitions, and they've taken litde pieces of board and jtist nailed them all together to divide the rooms. And as you walk in the front door, they've one picture of Che Guevara hanging on the wall. Isn't this wild? How awftil is that? You can see how they've divided the tall ceiling into two floors by putting boards. So obviously some rooms will have light, and some rooms will not. This was at one time a beautiful garden, and is now totally run down with weeds and banana trees and wild stuff. But you can tell the type of architecture, very European sophisticated kind of architecture.

AR: And how did the people come to live in this house? Did the government-

BH: The government gave them the house, people basically don't get paid if work. There's no incentive to work, all of these, you know, little tiny wires that are now on the house, everything is falling apart and crumbling. That's my sister. So basically they've run the place into the ground. And then we have some pictures of the house in the sugar mills.

AR: When were these take?

BH: Like in 1998, in the spring of '98, she was down there for five days. This is the house in the sugar mills, and again all crumbly. No furniture in the house, these funny

28 little puppets. This is all you can tell how the house looked is, you know, when you see the stairs. The front porch of the house. Ivly sister.

AR: What did that say?

BH: Palacio de los Pioneros. The Palace of the Pioneers

AR: Who was that? Whose name?

BH: Who knows? Probably some communist. The house was not painted this color. It was all creek. That's the picture of the sugar mill, [small pause] which is still operational. But the question is how successful it is. Fm sure not very. And that's my sister standing at the front door widi these people.

AR: Are those the people who live in the house?

BH: 1 have no idea. I doubt it. 1 don't think so. .And no one lives in the house. The house is empty. People say that the house is haunted, probably of guilty conscious. The miniUe we moved oiU. it was all confiscated by the government, and then they just ran everything to the ground. So it went from being a wealthy country that had an economy that was up to par with the United States, to being a third world country that cannot support itself It relied on Russia, on the Soviet Union, for years, for billions of dollars a year on support. And when that dried up. because the communist regime collapsed, they were on their own. They now rely on American dollars fiom toiu'ists. Several European countries have invested in resorts down diere, so they rely on the tourist industry, you know, the little there is, to survive

AR: Do you have hope of Cuba? Do you think ifs possible that can will rise again?

BH: Yes. I'm sure that it can rise again, boy. don't ask me how. or when. It's going to be interesting. It'll be inteiesting when he goes. They say that his brother, Raul, will be the

29 person to take o\'er. I tliinl< people hate his brother Raul and are terrified of him. More ruthless dian Castro, if possible.

AR: Is his brother with Castro?

BH: Yes. But you know, people live under constant fear. People are not free to speak their mind and disagree witli the government. Because they're always afraid that someone will come up and they'll go to jail. And if you go to prison, that's it. you're in prison. There's no rights, or human rights. Human rights? Oh my God! The things they've done, they've done horrible things. Horrible things to people. People who have been in prison just for disagreeing with Castro and the government, with no trial, no lawyers, no ajipeals. nothing.

AR: Like what? What are some examples of what they've done.

BH: People who are in prison because they disagree and they can't get out of prison. There's no judicial system there, or no rights. You are either with them, or you're against them. And if you're against them, you run a gieat risk. There are no human rights. 1 mean, they torture, and have done horrible things.

AR: Are there still executions?

BH: I'm sure there are. I'm sure there arc executions, [pause] And all because people don't agree, you know they're ruthless people who will go to any means to have their way, and that's the way Cubans live now-a-days. Its hard for people to dissent.

AR: Flow do you think Cubans feel right now?

BH: Well, Fni sure there are some who are very happy that Castro is still in power: and I think that there are some who are so sick of this whole thing, and tired of being hungry, and of not bavins enoush of the thintrs that we take so for sranted in this country. The

30 fact that people are willing to get on those little boats and rafts and imier-tubes to cross the stretch of the .Atlantic to get to Florida gives you an idea of what the alternative must be. What must the aliernati\e be when people are coming, here, in rafts, willing to risk their lives in the Atlantic Ocean, to get to the United States? I think that speaks for itself.

AR: What do you think of the whole Elian Gonzales case?

BH: Well. I think the whole thing was really unfortunate. I think that mother was obviously desperate enough to risk her life, and her child's life, to come on a raft. Poor little guy. watched his mother drown. I mean, it was awful. He arri\es lo Miami and moves in with these relatives who dien. of course, seize the opportunity to make the child a cause, so that part is a big unfortunate. 1 must say that 1 thought the child should never have gone back, at least the child had a chance good education here and having a life. I'm sure the father [pause] was being manipulated to come get the child, Fm not saying the father was [pause] a saint - Fm sure Castro manipulated the whole situation to. you know, blow' it up to what it was. I don't know. I thought the child should have stayed here and at had good education, a good chance at a decent life. And instead he was taken back to Cuba, and Fm sure that he [pause] you know, has been used by the Castro government as, "Oh," you know, "this poor child, his mother kidnapped him and dragged him to the United States." The whole thing was tragic.

AR: If you were still in Cuba, and the same thing happened to you. where you were a mother and you wanted to get your child out of Cuba, would you be willing to do the same thing?

BH: Well, I guess if you're a mother and you're desperate enough about the conditions you're living in. you're willing to do that. Things must have been really horrible for that mother if she was willing to put her kid on a raft and brave the Atlantic in November. I mean, the child arrived in Thanksaivinci. think of how awTuI that must have been. I mean, you kno\\' there are going to be sharks, theie might be storms, there's a j^ossibility of deiiydratioiK drowning, you know, sun-poisoning; and yet you're willing to risk all of

31 that for yourself and your child. So I guess that must mean that things were really, pretty awful for her: that she wanted to take that risk.

AR: Would you take that risk?

BH: Well, I don't have to take that risk. And I'm not under that situation, fortunately. We left way before the situation got that way.

AR: But do you think you would, that if you were put in the exact same situation?

BH: I guess if you feel that you're child's life is at risk, and that he might live a better hfe elsewhere, I guess you do take that situation. I don't know, you'd have to see. it would depend on the situation. So you're basically weighing safety against freedom. Those people make hard choices, things must be pretty awfiil if they're willing to make those hard choices. Things must be horrible if you're willing to get yourself on an inner- tube and brave the Atlantic Ocean.

AR: Do you think those people should be admitted into the United States?

BH: [siiort pause] Yes, I think they should be. Because those are people who are really fighting for their lives. I mean, to return them to Cuba, they'd probably going to be punished in one way or another.

AR: So in this case, you would -

BH: You know, it's really hard to say.

AR:-think it's alright?

BH: I don't know. I don't know what I would say. [pause] I was a refugee and this country opened its arms to me and my family, so its very hard for me to say. "No they

32 shouldn't]" To anybody, but at the same token. 1 realize that, with regard to diat California law. w^e can spread oursehes just so thin, [pause] Does that sound fair, or unfair? [laughs] I guess it probably sounds terribly unfair. As here 1 sit in Bethe.sda. Maryland, the land of luxury. I know.

AR: It's also contradicting, because -

BH: Of course it is, of course it is!

AR: ~ before you said that they should not be admitted. Immigrants should not be illegal, they should go through the ]Daper work -

BH: They should go through the paper work, but those people, their lives are not at stake. They're leaving their country "cause they want a better life for themselves. But if they return to Cuba after doing that, they probably will be punished one way or another. Some of these other immigrants, coming from Mexico, or other Central American, or Southern American countries, are not necessarily jDutting their li\'es at risk by leturning to where they're coming from. Do you understand what I mean?

AR: Yeah, completely.

BH: So I guess probably it's difference between a communist country and a non- communist country.

AR: It depends on the wealth of the country?

BH: Well, it depends on the wealth of the country, and it also depends on the regime that is running the country. If you leave Cuba in a raft and you get caught, and you're returned to Cuba, you'd have to pay a price. If you leave Mexico to go to work here and you get caught, and you're returned to Mexico, you ]5robably don V pay a price. And you don't get your way. but your life would not be risk: whereas, being returned to Cuba your

33 life might be at risk, [pause] I don't know, I'm just glad I don't make foreign policy [laughs] That's all [cinicides].

AR: Ok.

BH: Okay.

AR: Well, thank you -

BH: Well, thank you.

AR: verv much.

34 Interview Analysis

Various degrees of history exist throughout the world. Two of these are written history and oral histoiy. Although they encompass the same principal, these are two completely different fields of study. Written histoiy can be described as a model of which we learn from. In written history, the historian must rely on primary sources, documents, and solid facts proven correct by newspapers and additional textbooks.

Written history is pure facts and should not include opinion. If the textbooks include too much opinion and are severely biased, it will undoubtedly receive much criticism by those wanting the same goal as most of the present historians; money and fame.

Although historians publish their texts to inform the public of what has happened in the past, what it has meant, and what it signifies; there are not always many historians who prefer to publish texts for the purpose of teaching than gaining much profit and fame.

These historians would get much better attention if they simply state the facts as they are.

But that will never happen. There will always be at least a slight bias to every account of history. Perhaps the greatest biases in histoiy exist between the great tensions of world powers. When describing World War II, the opposing countries would, without doubt, have explanations as to the various effects, results, and outcomes of the war. For example, Germany would continue blaming the Jews for their loss, even though Hitler probably knew that it was his fault for not being prepared well enough against the world.

Furthermore, the Americans would say that victory was brought upon because they were so strong and Americans always win, not facing the fact that luck could have played a big role in the war. Oral histoiy, a major sub-division of history, is considered the study of interpretations. It is considered history in the way that those whom the historian

35 interviews become the textbooks and the primary documents for his/her research. The

inter\'iew itself then becomes a document for other people to use in their research.

Tlii'ough interviews, one can learn much more than through books. For example, one

could get a personal account of life during the particular time period being focused on. or

a better understanding of the public's feelings towards a certain movement. Therefore,

written history and oral history are very similar, yet at the same time, aie very different in presenting a way to learn history and undeistand history. In oral history, the reader

understands information on a more personal level whereas written history, although

pro\iding examples, remains broad and in general. Without personal accounts of

significant events, there would be no textbooks, as proof and evidence are essential to the

successful publication of history. Through second-hand history, one coidd simply read

about how life was in Cuba and its effects: however, by interviewing Mrs. Bibi Hill, one

truly learns how Cuba was affected by the change in govenmient and the view of

immigration from a refugee.

The interview commenced with the history of her family. She spoke of her

parents: her father and his job, and how they took care of the family. She continued by

describing her innocent childhood that was later stopped abruptly when Fidel Castro

reigned over Cuba when she was merely 10 years old, being forced to leave the country

due to the numerous assassination attempts on her father, the destruction of her property,

and the loss of business which ultimately led to the escape of their homeland and the

separation of her family. She also described life in Cuba, the visual arts, and her

prosperous education. Furthennore, she explain her accommodation to life in her New

World, the United States of America. Unfortunately, she told of how her father was

36 involved in the Bay of Pigs Invasion, wMiere he was captui'cd and ransomed for an extensive amount of money. She spoke of how she was terrified both during the Bay of

Pigs Iii\'asion, and the Cuban Missile Crisis in which her school conducted many drills due to the short proximity between her new home in Florida and die small island of Cuba.

She then reflected on present Cuba and whether or not she would ever return, in which she said she possibly might when Castro discontinues having control of Cuba and its inliabitants. She also spoke of how she intends to teach her two children of their natural history and their original language. When the subject of immigration was talked about, she expressed her views, yet towards the end did not feel comfortable speaking of foreign policy as she contradicted herself when she stated that immigrants should not be welcomed at all if they attempt to arrive illegally. She said that it is imperafive that they attain die proper papers and make themselves legal before entering; yet it is fine if immigrants who flee their country, dtie to persecution or economic disaster, arrive to this one without ]3apers. She said that in that case, they should be allowed (Roman 32-34).

This shows how immigration and foreign policy is very confusing and often contradicts itself, yet one must know when to have pity and when to not be taken advantage of

The interview conducted with Bibi Hill focused on the histoiy of Cuba and immigration, therefore giving the reader a better understanding of how a lefugee regards both his/her former homeland before and after the tragic cause that led to the departure of the country. In Bibi Hill's "sheltered life" (Roman 9) in Cuba, there "was a great discrepancy between those who had so much and those people who didn't have as much,

[even though] that's always going to be the way life is, in every country. We're fooling ourselves if we think everything's going to be equal" (Roman 11). When asked what she

37 thought about immigration in the United States, she goes on to say that "this country has welcomed everybody with opened arms, which is a wonderful thing, yet it has come back to haunt us" (Roman 20). Her response to immigiation in general was that the immigiant should go through all the proper pa]ierwork to become legal before entering the country.

She said that if they are not legal, they should not be admitted into the country, however, if they are refugees fleeing their country due to danger, they should be allowed into the country without question. Her views support historian Pete Wilson in that illegal immigrants should be barred and deported from the United States. He also feels that the federal government must adopt stricter policies against illegal immigiants. Moreover. she says. "How much money are we willing to put out to pay welfare benefits and all of this stuff for people who arc here illegally? Flow wonderful can we be to everybody?"

(Roman 26). This thought can be connected with that of Michael Huffington when he says, "spending on illegal immigi'ants is out of control" (Cozic 12). They feel that illegal immigi'ants are a burden to the American economy, yet the American economy gieatly depends on illegal immigrants to do the menial work for low pay.

This interview teaches various aspects of history in general and the history of

Cuba and immigration. I learned that at times, immigration can be confusing and often contradicting, yet upon further examination, one understands why that is. One often contradicts oneself when talking about immigration and foreign policy because although one feels one way, a question would come in which one feels another, and somehow both questions are related, making one think again about the response. In addition, the interviewee. Mrs. Bibi Flill has provided another viewpoint. While conducting my research, 1 read how the ]3opulatioii of Cuba was content when Castro took over power,

38 overtlii-owing Batista, yet with this interview^ I understood how some people were not happy with the 26''' of July Movement and fell as if the change of power had gone from bad to worse. If I were to interview someone else in relation to the interview, I would most likely interview her sister. Peggy, or maybe a Cuban citizen, if possible, to get their view of Cuba's unfortunate history.

39 Works Consulted

Cozie, Charles. Illegal Immimation: Opposing Viewpoints. New York: Greenhaven Press, 1996.

Gonzalez, Juan. Harvest of Empire; A Historv of Latinos in America. New York: Penguin Putnam Inc., 2000

Johnson, Paul. A Historv of the American People. Great Britain: Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1997.

Kohli, Eddy. Cuba. New York: Rizzoli, 1997.

Landes, Alison. ImmiRiation and Illegal Aliens: Burden or BlessiuR. New York: Information Press, 1996.

Mendoza, Tony. Cuba: Going Back. Texas; University of Texas, 1999.

Suchlicki, Jaime. Cuba; From Columbus to Castro and Beyond. Richmond; Brasseys Inc, 1997.

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