NTERVIEW: WILLIAM COLBY a Somewhat Candid Conversation with the Former Director of the Cia

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NTERVIEW: WILLIAM COLBY a Somewhat Candid Conversation with the Former Director of the Cia /(767 PLAYBOY►I NTERVIEW: WILLIAM COLBY a somewhat candid conversation with the former director of the cia William Colby is cast in the grand Division. After five years in that job, he to dosing people with mind-control mold: Princetonian, soldier, lawyer, spy. was recruited as deputy head of CORDS, drugs, to domestic spying. During the He-served as a commando paratrooper in the over-all structure under which the hearings, posters went up around-Wash- France cirid-korway during World War infamous Phoenix program was carried ington showing Colby as the ace of Two and with the Office of Strategic out. Since CORDS was run by the State spades and accusing him of assassinat- Services, the precursor of the Central Department, Colby took a "leave without ing 20,000 people under the Phoenix Intelligence Agency. For those extremely pay" from CIA. When he returned to program. dangerous missions—dropping behind Washington in 1971, due to the serious His tenure as director was continuously enemy lines and blowing up railroad (and ultimately fatal) illness of his plagued with bad publicity. At one press tracks—Colby won the Bronze Star, the daughter, he rejoined CIA and, in 1972, meeting, he told a group of editors that Croix de, guerre, the Silver Star and was given the job of executive director- CIA did not use American newsmen as Saint Olaf's Medal. Thinking he was go- comptroller—a seemingly dull job that, spies. Later, he checked, found that the ing to pursue a legal career, he returned in fact, gave Colby a rare overview of agency had used some newsmen and to school after the war and practiced the agency and its inner workings. called back to report this to the press. law for three years. Then along came the Under James Schlesinger's short re- The story was immediately reported un- fledgling CIA and Colby was recruited. gime as CIA director, Colby was made der banner headlines, and thus began the His first overseas assignment, in 1951, was deputy director of operations. When furor over CIA use of journalists that as political attache to the Stockholm Em- Attorney General Richard Kleindienst continues to this day. During his final bassy, a cover for intelligence work in had to resign as a result of Watergate, year in that office, Colby sometimes spent Scandinavia. In 1953, he was transferred Schlesinger became Secretary of Defense. as much time testifying about CIA's to Rome, where Clare Booth Luce was President Nixon then gave Colby the activities as he did Ambassador to Italy. One mission there nod to head the world's most widely running the agency. was to intervene in Italian politics in an publicized intelligence service. It was not And when The New York Times re- attempt to keep the Communists from destined to be easy at the top. vealed some of the details of The Fam- taking over. This much-criticized opera- At the time of the Senate hearings to ily Jewels in a December 1974 story, the tion involved pouring vast sums of confirm his appointment, Colby was re- lid blew off. Colby knew that his career money (officially, several million dollars) lentlessly grilled about The Family was over. It was just a matter of time— into the Italian political arena. Jewels—a secret 693-page report ordered and of taking the heat for Watergate, Colby arrived for his first Vietnam by Schlesinger, directed by Colby and Chile, domestic spying and just about tour in 1959 to take a position as deputy compiled by CIA's own Inspector Gen- everything else that could be dragged chief of station at Saigon. In 1960, he eral's Office. It dealt with what Colby into the House and Senate hearings. On was moved up to chief of station and in calls "some mistakes"—specifically CIA November 2, 1975, President Gerald 1962 became head of CIA's Far East abuses ranging from assassination plans Ford fired Colby in the traditional way: "I think it is quite possible [that a "I don't have a problem with the moral "It's important that people like myself nuclear weapon will be exploded in an justification that if a man is a tyrant, speak out, yet not conceal the fact that aggressive manner]. A single shot, two then somebody under him has the right there are spies and that there need to be; shots, are quite possible in the next to shoot him. But that doesn't mean a that in the past 20 years CIA has made ten years." separate country has a right to do it." some mistakes—sure." 69 M He offered him another job, which on tape about Watergate and it was with coffee. Occasionally, she would re- 0 Colby turned down. resoundingly dull. Colby seemed to have turn with more hot coffee, smiling To find out what a major intelligence absolutely no recollection of certain as- brightly. To begin, I asked a question 111 officer would be willing—or be allowed— pects of the case and absolutely nothing about something that had always in- it say about America's most mysterious to say about others. For example, fames trigued me." al and notorious branch of service, we sent McCord was the man who left the piece Articles Editor Lautsece Gowenlen, who for of tape on the door—which led to the PLAYBOY: What was it like to be the head years has written on intelligence-related discovery of the burglars in the act. But of CIA and really know what's going on? al matters for PLAYBOY, to talk with him. McCord was an excellent CIA security COLBY: Wonderful! The biggest change Gonzales' report: officer, bringing up the question of how in my life, frankly, was the day I walked "I first determined to interview Colby he could do something that stupid—or out of CIA Headquarters at Langley about two years ago, when I _appeared and no longer read "The Morning . • . whether, perhaps, McCord's act Was in- oft- ft-telszniton show and learned from tentional. Colby, in responding_to this, News." I work very hard now to try to the moderator TIRit he had had Colby as merely shrugged and allowed thatMc- keep up with what's happening in the a guest. During the course of their talks, Cord was probably an all-right security rest of the world and I know I'm not in Colby had said that - CIA had never officer. Period. In general, there seem to the same ball park in terms of what I assassinated anybody. I wanted to look be whole areas that Colby has made a knew then. in his eyes and have him repeat that. personal policy decision not to think PLAYBOY: What is "The Morning News"? When we finally sat down over a tape about. He told me that he purposely COUIY: An attempt to encapsulate the recorder, I learned what a master of didn't read certain controversial CIA- major events of the previous day. It's language he was and how well his years related books, so that he wouldn't have really very good. I made it into a news- of answering hostile questions had served to talk about them. On the face of it, paper, because I found that a very use- him. Questioning Colby was like talking this seems to contrast with the ample ful way to present information, with to a man who has something hidden in evidence of research in 'Honorable Men,' headlines and all the rest. his pocket. You must guess what it is. Colby's recent book published by Simon PLAYBOY: You're now retired, but people You have no clues and your question i!i! Schuster. The careful reader will also may wonder: Has he really retired? must be exactly right—close doesn't Once CIA, always CIA, as they say. count. If it is a piece of gold and you ask COLBY: I have two connections at CIA, if it is money, you will learn nothing. my pension and my secrecy agreement. And if you happen on the right answer, "CIA is the best I hope I keep both. the man is bound by an oath not to tell PLAYBOY: Do you still consult with CIA? you that you have guessed correctly. intelligence service in the COLBY: I canceled my clearance the day "CIA's reality is different from our I left office. I have not seen one classi- reality. Widely publicized all over the world. The Soviets did some fied bit of information since I left. Oh, world was the fact that CIA built a brilliant work years ago, both former director George Bush and spy ship called the Glomar Explorer to current director Admiral Stansfield raise a sunken Russian Golf Class sub- but I don't think they're Turner have asked me to speak at their marine. Yet Colby, under his secrecy training courses. I've seen them for little agreement, is not allowed to talk about doing that well now." chats; they've picked my brain. And what is common knowledge to the rest every now and again I call up over there of the world. Officially, to him, the story and pass along somebody who's inter- ested in having his name dropped in for does not exist. It is very 1989. notice certain inconsistencies or even in- "During the interview, Colby often accuracies in some of Colby's statements. possible employment. would pause after hearing a question and Although many were challenged, I have PLAYBOY: What is CIA, as you would define it? think for a long time—sometimes 90 no way of knowing what Colby's sources COLBY: CIA is part of the United States seconds or more.
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