CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 138 Ï NUMBER 077 Ï 2nd SESSION Ï 37th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Tuesday, March 25, 2003 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) All parliamentary publications are available on the ``Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire´´ at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 4619 HOUSE OF COMMONS Tuesday, March 25, 2003 The House met at 10 a.m. PETITIONS MARRIAGE Prayers Mr. Tom Wappel (Scarborough Southwest, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I have two petitions signed by numerous people from a Ï (1005) variety of places but mainly from the Nepean and Ottawa areas. Both [English] petitions call upon Parliament to reject any requests to change the The Speaker: Order, please. Since today is the final allotted day traditional definition of marriage, family and spouse, to continue to for the supply period ending March 26, 2003, the House will go affirm the importance of the family as the foundation of Canadian through the usual procedures to consider and dispose of the supply society and that nothing in the future will change its fundamental bills. role in society. In view of recent practices, do hon. members agree that the bills STEM CELL RESEARCH be distributed now? Some hon. members: Agreed. Mr. Ovid Jackson (Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I have the honour to present, pursuant to Standing Order 36, two petitions from my constituents of Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS [English] The first petition indicates that in society there are many diseases and problems with illnesses, including spinal injuries. They feel that GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS adult non-embryonic stem cells is the way to go and that we should Mr. Geoff Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of follow that particular legislation. the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Madam Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order (36(8) I have the honour to TOURISM INDUSTRY table, in both official languages, the government's response to 11 petitions. Mr. Ovid Jackson (Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, Lib.): Madam *** Speaker, the second petition comes from the Bruce Peninsula. [Translation] Yesterday the minister announced some $811 million for parks. COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE There is a visitor centre that is overdue. They have started road FISHERIES AND OCEANS construction. Our petitioners are asking the minister to go ahead with Mr. Tom Wappel (Scarborough Southwest, Lib.): Madam that project this year since it is very important for tourism in the district. Speaker, I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the second report of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans entitled, “Custodial Management Outside Canada's 200- FIREARMS REGISTRY mile Limit”. [English] Mr. Scott Reid (Lanark—Carleton, Canadian Alliance): Madam Speaker, last weekend I was presented with a petition Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee requests that the containing the signatures of 10,000 residents of eastern Ontario on government table a comprehensive response to this report within 150 the subject of the long gun registry. It had been presented to days. The report deals with the examination of the government's Ontario's minister of public security, Bob Runciman, but because it response to our first report, the rejection of the government's was a federal matter it was passed to me to present in the House, response and the reiteration of the points in our first report. with his approval. 4620 COMMONS DEBATES March 25, 2003 Supply The petitioners call upon Parliament to take into account, when (c) to verify and correct the information in the 4 million records in the Firearms voting on Bill C-68, the fact that expenses are 500 times over Interest Police database and to bring it into full compliance with the Privacy Act and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms; budget; that the Auditor General has indicated that the government has failed to keep Parliament informed with regard to the cost of the (d) to register the ten million unregistered guns in Canada; gun registry; that a majority of long gun owners in Canada have not (e) to licence the half million unlicensed gun owners in Canada; and registered their guns; that the government has failed to provide any (f) to the economy and jobs. conclusive or verifiable evidence that the registry results in a reduction in crime; and that the registry has the effect of withdrawing He said: Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time, as will all resources that could be used for the reduction of criminal offences Alliance members today. with firearms. No program has been a bigger failure or a bigger embarrassment I present this petition to the House. for the government than this seven year old billion dollar firearms *** fiasco. (1010) Ï The Auditor General said that Parliament was misled. We need to QUESTIONS PASSED AS ORDERS FOR RETURN go back to the drawing board because that is true. Mr. Geoff Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Madam Today Parliament can decided to stop the misleading. Today is the Speaker, if Question No. 136 could be made an order for return, the day the process to uncover truth about the gun registry can begin. return would be tabled immediately. Today Parliament can do the job we were sent here to do; to start taking control over the waste of money on useless government The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos): Is it agreed? programs. Now is the time to do what is right and that is the purpose of our debate today. Some hon. members: Agreed. (Return Tabled) The Auditor General made it clear that the cost of the gun registry [Text] would be more than the billion dollars that she reported. The President of the Treasury Board admitted that she still did not know Question No. 136—Mr. James Moore: the total cost of the gun registry to date when she appeared before Responding with a list in both printed and electronic formats, what are the committee last week. government's holdings in all its vehicle fleets as of December 31, 2002, including: (a) vehicle class; (b) model type; (c) model year; (d) colour; (e) size of engine (rating as Before the Prime Minister whips his MPs into tears and forces per number of cylinders); (f) department holding the ownership; (g) original purchase price and date; (h) individual assigned to the vehicle (if applicable); and (i) fuel type? them to vote for another $59 million tonight, should he not tell them how much the gun registry has cost so far and how much it will cost (Return tabled.) to fully implement? None of that has been told here. If the members [English] opposite would listen to the debate today they might learn something. Mr. Geoff Regan: Madam Speaker, I ask that all remaining questions be allowed to stand. Today we are asking the government to stop pouring good money The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos): Is it agreed? after bad. We are asking the government to stop registering guns until a cost benefit analysis has been completed or at least cabinet Some hon. members: Agreed. releases the one that has already been done. How can we support a program if we do not know what this cost benefit analysis is? In March 1994 the justice minister was clearly told in a briefing GOVERNMENT ORDERS note from his own officials, which we obtained through access to [English] information: Accurate information about costs and benefits must be obtained before any firm SUPPLY commitment can be made.... ALLOTTED DAY—FIREARMS PROGRAM That was in reference to the gun registry. That was never done. Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton—Melville, Canadian Alliance) moved: Why should we approve more money when we do not have that That, as this House supported the reduction of funds for the firearms program in the information? The sad fact is that the cost benefit analysis was done. Supplementary Estimates on December 5, 2002, this House should continue to It just has never been released by cabinet. support the reduction of funds for the firearms program in this supply period and subsequent supply periods until the government can provide a comprehensive cost- benefit analysis for the program and provide an accurate total of expenditures to date Last week the new CEO of the Canadian Firearms Centre and a realistic estimate of future costs of implementing the Firearms Act including admitted, in a briefing for opposition MPs and senators, that cabinet the total cost: has refused to release the cost benefit analysis. All Canadians must (a) to fully enforce the Firearms Act; wonder why it would want to hide this information. All Canadians (b) to verify the 5 million unverified firearms in the registry; must wonder what the Liberal government is hiding, not just why. March 25, 2003 COMMONS DEBATES 4621 Supply Given the reality of violent crime in Canada, taxpayers would re-register their guns without a licence. What will it cost to go back have to wonder why the government has chosen to go down the gun and fix that? The government has never told us. registry trail of wasted loonies. Why not spend the money in the most cost effective manner: target the root causes of violence and of crime in our society? Sixth, up to 10 million guns still have to be registered or re- Some past justice ministers have claimed that the gun registry is registered in the system. What will that cost to complete? saving lives, but every year Statistics Canada data proves the opposite. In 2001 only 31% of homicides were committed with a firearm and almost two-thirds of these were with handguns.