1 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 21 November 1990 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL -- 21 November 1990 1 OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 21 November 1990 The Council met at half-past Two o'clock PRESENT HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (PRESIDENT) SIR DAVID CLIVE WILSON, K.C.M.G. THE CHIEF SECRETARY THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE SIR PIERS JACOBS, K.B.E., J.P. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG YAN-LUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARIA TAM WAI-CHU, C.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE HENRIETTA IP MAN-HING, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN YING-LUN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHENG HON-KWAN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG PUI-LAM, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HO SAI-CHU, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E. THE HONOURABLE POON CHI-FAI, J.P. PROF. THE HONOURABLE POON CHUNG-KWONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH THE HONOURABLE TAI CHIN-WAH, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ROSANNA TAM WONG YICK-MING, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG DR THE HONOURABLE DANIEL TSE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE GRAHAM BARNES, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E. THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHENG MING-FUN THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL CHENG TAK-KIN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID CHEUNG CHI-KONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD CHOW MEI-TAK THE HONOURABLE MRS NELLIE FONG WONG KUT-MAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DANIEL LAM WAI-KEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG THE HONOURABLE LEUNG WAI-TUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KINGSLEY SIT HO-YIN THE HONOURABLE MRS SO CHAU YIM-PING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E. THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE YEUNG KAI-YIN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES THE HONOURABLE PETER TSAO KWANG-YUNG, C.B.E., C.P.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS THE HONOURABLE MRS ELIZABETH WONG CHIEN CHI-LIEN, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE THE HONOURABLE ALISTAIR PETER ASPREY, O.B.E., A.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY ABSENT THE HONOURABLE PETER POON WING-CHEUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. IN ATTENDANCE THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR LAW KAM-SANG Papers The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Merchant Shipping Ordinance Merchant Shipping (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 1990......................................................... 352/90 Merchant Shipping (Registration) Ordinance 1990 Merchant Shipping (Registration) (Fees and Charges) Regulations 1990..................................... 353/90 Merchant Shipping (Registration) Ordinance 1990 Merchant Shipping (Registration) (Ships' Names) Regulations 1990......................................................... 354/90 Shipping and Port Control Ordinance Shipping and Port Control (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 1990............................................. 355/90 Securities Ordinance Securities (Miscellaneous) (Amendment) Rules 1990...... 356/90 Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance Civic Centres (Regional Council) (Amendment) By-Laws 1990............................................................ 357/90 The late Mr James O'GRADY, Counsel to the Legislature HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT: Before we start the proceedings today, I am sure that the Council would wish me to note with deep regret the death yesterday of Mr James O'GRADY who was Counsel to the Legislative Council since September 1985 and to record both our regrets and our condolences to his family. Oral answers to questions Potentially dangerous buildings 1. MISS LEUNG asked: In view of the recent collapse of a pre-war building which has been classified in the survey undertaken by the Buildings Ordinance Office as a Category II building, that is, a building in a potentially dangerous condition requiring detailed structural examination, will Government inform this Council of the progress of the detailed surveys of Category II buildings, and whether consideration will be given to introducing more stringent measures to ensure that buildings are maintained in a safe condition? SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Sir, in the recent building survey undertaken by the Buildings Ordinance Office, over 55 000 private buildings were inspected externally, of which 16 700 buildings were classified as Category II buildings. Here I would like to emphasize that Category II does not mean that a danger has been identified. It only refers to buildings which appear from the outside to be in a suspect condition and therefore require detailed investigation. The Buildings Ordinance Office has already started on the detailed inspection of these Category II buildings. Up to now, 1 800 full and detailed inspections have been made and 1 600 orders have been served, including 20 demolition orders for 20 buildings. As a result of the Sheung Wan incident, efforts are being focused on the pre-war buildings. It is expected that detailed inspections on over 970 Category II pre-war buildings identified will be completed by February 1991. Inspections of all remaining Category II post-war buildings is estimated to be completed in five to eight years, depending on staff resources. Sir, the law in Hong Kong ensures that buildings are properly designed and built by authorized persons in accordance with approved plans; it provides procedures to deal with known unauthorized additions and to enforce the repair and/or demolition of parts or the whole of the structure if they or it are known to have become dangerous. It does not however enforce maintenance to prevent the structure from becoming dilapidated, and in many cases little or no preventive maintenance has been done. Government is considering whether and how existing legislation could or should be strengthened to ensure that the private buildings are maintained properly throughout their lives and the public safety is thus ensured. This forms the first part of the review by the Director of Buildings and Lands which is expected to be completed early next year. MISS LEUNG (in Cantonese): Sir, why does the Government not announce to the property owners concerned that their buildings, especially those in relatively dangerous conditions, have been classified as Category II buildings, so as to alert them to the situation, which may even prompt them to hire professionals on their own to undertake detailed investigations on the buildings? SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Sir, the problem with Category II buildings is that whether or not they are safe is unknown. If they are in Category I we know that something must be done about them. If they are in Category III, then the Buildings Ordinance Office has inspected them and has come to the conclusion that they are not in need of repair. But in Category II they look as though they might be in need of repair. As I have said, there are 16 700 such buildings, all of which need inspection to see whether they do need any repair to make them safe. Up until now, the Administration has taken the view that, if it was to be announced to people that their buildings were in Category II, they would make the assumption that their buildings were unsafe and then panic would be caused to a greater degree than would really be justified by the actual results. In the Buildings and Lands Survey Report which the Director of Buildings and Lands is preparing for me shortly, I have asked him to look at this again because it is clear from the numbers of orders which have been issued as a result of the inspections that, in any case, a great deal of repairs are needed for Category II buildings. A very significant proportion of the buildings have been subject to those orders. MR CHENG HON-KWAN: Sir, my question is quite similar to Miss LEUNG's, but I would like to ask the Secretary whether Government is prepared to advise owners of Category II post-war buildings to employ professionals to carry out detailed inspections instead of relying on government inspections which will take five to eight years? SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Sir, I can only say that this suggestion is one of those which are being looked into right now. MR TAI: Sir, may I ask the Secretary what he is proposing to do to the fixtures permanently attached to those old buildings, whether they be pre-war or post-war? SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS: Sir, fixtures along with buildings are subject to inspection in just the same way as the building is. Should they be found to be unsafe or liable to become unsafe, there is sufficient procedure in the Buildings Ordinance Office to deal with them and that procedure will be followed.