TRANSCRIPT of PROCEEDINGS BOARD of INQUIRY Basin Bridge
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BOARD OF INQUIRY Basin Bridge Proposal HEARING at AMORA HOTEL, WAKEFIELD STREET, WELLINGTON on 18 February 2014 BOARD OF INQUIRY: Retired Environment and District Court Judge Gordon Whiting (Chairperson) James Baines (Board Member) David Collins (Board Member) David McMahon (Board Member) Page 1147 APPEARANCES <DAVID JAMES DUNLOP, on former oath [9.47 am] .......................... 1148 <CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MILNE 5 CONTINUING [9.47 am] ................................................................. 1148 <CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS ANDREWS [12.30 pm] ......... 1211 <RE-EXAMINATION BY MR CAMERON [12.43 pm] ................ 1218 10 Amora Hotel, Wellington 18.02.14 Page 1148 [9.46 am] CHAIRPERSON: Yes, good morning everybody. Sorry to keep everyone waiting, it is my fault this morning. I was walking here thinking I had 5 plenty of time and about 20 past I was at Cuba Street, and the phone rang in my satchel and I realised it was my wife’s phone and I had her satchel, so I had to go all the way back to Citylife again. MR CAMERON: I am pleased you have those moments is all I have got to 10 say. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I wondered what the strange sound of this phone was ringing in my satchel. Anyway, so I am sorry to keep you waiting. The rest of the team thought I had bunked and gone to the Basin 15 Reserve for the historic day. MR CAMERON: I had been asked on behalf of all counsel to ask for an adjournment for two hours, sir. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Well, we might at 1 o’clock. MR CAMERON: It is more a site visit. CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Milne. 25 <DAVID JAMES DUNLOP, on former oath [9.47 am] <CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR MILNE CONTINUING [9.47 am] 30 MR MILNE: Thank you. Good morning, Mr Dunlop. MR DUNLOP: Good morning. MR MILNE: Now, the media has accused me of spending all of yesterday 35 cooking so I’ll move along. Getting back to Option X, I asked; you to look at two points overnight, have you been able to clarify both of those points? MR DUNLOP: Yes, I am able to clarify those points. 40 MR MILNE: If you would do so. MR DUNLOP: So the first question was asked is to confirm whether the Memorial Park Underpass was included. The Memorial Park 45 Underpass was included in all three scenarios being tested in this testing that was undertaken in January and February 2013. Amora Hotel, Wellington 18.02.14 Page 1149 MR MILNE: With three lanes? MR DUNLOP: No, not with three lanes, no. Well, all three scenarios were 5 tested with two lanes, okay, and then the final scenarios, which were Option X and Options A were tested with four lanes at the stop line so that means a right turn lane and three ahead lanes, okay. So that was the option, does that make sense? 10 MR MILNE: So the comparison between X and A included three lanes and the intersection improvements for both options? MR DUNLOP: Correct, that is correct, so they are consistent for the option. 15 MR MILNE: Thank you. And then the other question was around whether there was an Option X(a) that was considered. MR DUNLOP: I understand there was no Option X(a). 20 MR MILNE: Okay, all right. MR DUNLOP: Yes. I think that was actually directed to Mr Cameron to find that out. 25 MR MILNE: Thank you, it’s all right. Sometimes you go fishing and you don’t catch anything. So moving along and going back to the question of your understanding around the context for the January/February reassessment. 30 MR DUNLOP: Yes. MR MILNE: I assume, and correct me if I am wrong, that there is somewhere a letter briefing Opus as to what it was to do and why it was doing it and what the outputs of this process were to be, a you or will 35 Dr Stewart be able to provide that letter to me? MR DUNLOP: Hopefully, Dr Stewart will be able to provide something, whether it is a letter I’m not sure. 40 MR MILNE: Okay. So, just to be clear, what I am seeking here is the instructions to Opus and to clarify the point that you made yesterday around your understanding of how this study fitted in with what Wellington City Council was doing and what Opus’ brief was at this stage, thank you. 45 MR DUNLOP: Yes. Amora Hotel, Wellington 18.02.14 Page 1150 MR CAMERON: Sorry, is that a request, so that is a request for information? MR MILNE: It is a request for information that I want to be able to discuss 5 with Dr Stewart so I need it before Dr Stewart. MR CAMERON: And it is a letter you are seeking, you are wanting to know? MR MILNE: The basis of the instructions, the brief that was given to Opus in 10 December 2012/January 2013 which led to the report that we are now discussing. MR CAMERON: Concerning Option X? 15 MR MILNE: Yes. MR CAMERON: I understand. My witness is at the back he will do that. MR MILNE: Thank you. And just going back to what we were discussing 20 what was in and out of baskets in terms of this comparison. For costing purposes was the whole of the Underpass project in or out of the costings of both Options X and A at this stage? MR DUNLOP: My understanding is that it would be out but I was not 25 involved in any detail with regards to the costing I am sorry, so you would have to put that one past Dr Stewart. MR MILNE: Okay. Yesterday you indicated what your role was and it was wider than transport, it seemed to feed into the BCR calculation, didn’t 30 it? MR DUNLOP: The transportation components feed into the BCR. MR MILNE: Of the BCR, yes. 35 MR DUNLOP: Correct. So there’s a cost component and there is a transportation component. Transportation is generally the benefits. MR MILNE: Okay. So you were supervising the benefits side of it. 40 MR DUNLOP: Yes, correct. MR MILNE: And someone else was looking at the costing side. 45 MR DUNLOP: Correct. Amora Hotel, Wellington 18.02.14 Page 1151 MR MILNE: So who specifically in Opus was looking at the costing of the two options? [9.52 am] 5 MR DUNLOP: I couldn’t confirm who it was, I would expect it would have been Mr Thornton working under Dr Stewart. MR MILNE: And, unlike the Feasible Options Report, my understanding 10 from this report is that Paramics was not used to assess travel time savings for the purpose of this comparison? MR DUNLOP: Correct, that is correct. 15 MR MILNE: And essentially the do-minimum was different from at the Feasible Options Report stage, as I understand it what you were doing at this stage was really comparing Option X and Option A against a revised do-minimum, is that a fair summary? 20 MR DUNLOP: That’s a fair summary, yes, as to where things have moved on and how changes have happened on the network. MR MILNE: So in terms of the travel time component that we explored yesterday and it seems quite important in terms of assessment, my 25 understanding is that here you were reliant on SATURN in terms of travel time savings? MR DUNLOP: Yes, that’s correct. 30 MR MILNE: And I think we are agreed that at a network level that that is likely to under represent travel time savings for both options? MR DUNLOP: Yes, as long as you are comparing like for like in, you know, comparative terms, correct. I mean it’s pretty fair to say that this 35 option, being Option X in front of us, you would expect to have a very similar travel time saving from a state highway perspective to Option A. MR MILNE: And the whole 90 seconds versus six minutes debate, that would 40 to a large extent apply in a similar way to Options X and A, wouldn’t it? MR DUNLOP: Totally, completely. The only difference would be the traffic coming on from Kent Terrace coming on to the state highway in 45 Option X may impact on the throughput of the traffic coming through on the state highway, so reduce the state highway journey time. Amora Hotel, Wellington 18.02.14 Page 1152 MR MILNE: And just turning to the report now at pages 12 and 13, so I am referring to documents and I have called 8/40. 5 MR DUNLOP: Yes. MR MILNE: So looking at the first table on page 12 and just going through those numbers. Now, I am assuming Taurima Street is the street coming from Hataitai just before (INDISTINCT 3.15) 10 MR DUNLOP: It is indeed, correct. MR MILNE: I should know it I pass it every day but I have never quite got to know Wellington. So looking at the first line there, am peak, the 15 numbers are very similar, aren’t they? MR DUNLOP: They are very similar, correct. MR MILNE: The next line, Option X actually provides slightly greater 20 benefits, PM peak? MR DUNLOP: Yes. MR MILNE: Looking at it in the other direction slightly better for Option A 25 and then on the next line slightly better for Option X? MR DUNLOP: Yes. MR MILNE: The next line, John to Elizabeth better for Option A than X by a 30 margin of around 5 percent, is that about correct? MR DUNLOP: Yes, about that or less.