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Lioness Rampant, Part 2

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Lioness Rampant, Part 2 Episode 8: Lioness Rampant, Part 2 0:00:00 Amy: While she's on a talk show, and then she has to act like that's normal. ​ 0:00:03 Abby: When is she on a talk show? ​ 0:00:05 Amy: So in the very beginning of the book, a kid almost falls into an alligator ​ enclosure, so to stop the kid from being eaten, she jumps in and acquires the DNA of the alligator, which makes it go to sleep, but everyone's like ‘Disaster Girl, she saved this toddler!’ And then, she's allergic to the alligator so she accidentally turns into an elephant in her house and her house just falls apart. And her dad works in media, and she's like, ‘You know what I wanna be on is on this TV show, where this famous person, who's infested by a Yeerk, is gonna try to get kids to join the Sharing.’ 0:00:39 Abby: Okay, you know what, Amy, I just actually realized, you can totally talk about ​ Animorphs a ton in the next series. 0:00:45 Aurora: Oh, it's so true. ​ 0:00:47 Gus: Oh yeah. ​ 0:00:48 Abby: But maybe for now, we should stick to Alanna the Lioness. ​ [Intro music fades in: Greensleeves (a dubstep cover) by Zetta] ​ ​ 0:01:08 Abby: Hello and welcome to Tortall Recall, the podcast where we re-read the Tamora ​ Pierce books and yell about them. My name is Abby and my pronouns are she/her. 0:01:15 Amy: My name is Amy and my pronouns are she/her. ​ 0:01:19 Aurora: My name is Aurora and my pronouns are she/her. ​ 0:01:21 Gus: My name is Gus, and my pronouns are they/them. ​ 0:01:24 Abby: And we are back to discussing Lioness Rampant, which actually, now that I ​ ​ ​ think about it, not sure we said the title in the last episode, but that's what we were talking about. 0:01:31 Gus: Oh God. ​ [laughter] 0:01:33 Amy: Well... ​ 0:01:33 Aurora: Whoops. It's fine. ​ 0:01:34 Amy: They're not going to know which book we're referring to. ​ 01/01/19 Page 1 of 54 0:01:37 Amy: There's no way to... ​ 0:01:37 Abby: I think they'll figure it out. ​ 0:01:39 Aurora: Oh yeah. ​ 0:01:40 Abby: Our listeners are smart. ​ 0:01:41 Amy: There's no way to tell. We didn't have clues. ​ 0:01:43 Abby: It's not like it's in the title of the episode or anything. ​ 0:01:47 Gus: What if they think we're talking about like, Animorphs number 12? ​ ​ ​ [laughter] 0:01:51 Abby: Well... ​ 0:01:51 Amy: The Reaction. ​ [laughter] 0:01:57 Abby: No, okay. We're not... Despite all appearances, I'm sure we're actually not ​ talking about Animorphs number 12, The Reaction. ​ ​ ​ [laughter] 0:02:08 Amy: We could if you want. Send us an email. ​ [laughter] 0:02:13 Abby: No, but we're back into Lioness Rampant and we left in the middle of ‘Social ​ ​ ​ Justice Corner.’ So, let's get right back into it and talk about queer stuff. 0:02:24 Amy: Woo! ​ 0:02:24 Aurora: Yeah! ​ 0:02:25 Amy: So there's a couple of points where Alanna pretends to be a boy again, ​ specifically when they join up with Thayet and Buri, and she gets so excited to pretend... 0:02:35 Aurora: Yeah! ​ 0:02:35 Amy: ...to dress as a boy and I'm really... It just makes me really happy that she ​ gets to have that time. 0:02:41 Abby: Well, sometimes she pretends to be a boy and so, a lot of the time she just ​ dresses the way she wants to, and gets read as a boy. 0:02:49 Amy: Yeah. ​ 0:02:50 Aurora: I like how comfortable she is now with... Like she can present a bunch of ​ different ways and she's really comfortable with all of these, so she'll... She's okay wearing dresses, she is okay with her really beautiful thing that she wears to the...that Thayet designed, that she wears to the presentation of the Jewel. 01/01/19 Page 2 of 54 0:03:13 Gus: Yeah. ​ 0:03:13 Amy: Yeah. ​ 0:03:17 Aurora: ...I think it's wonderful that she's really coming into herself and doing what ​ she wants in terms of how she portrays herself to the world and like, she's really okay with this, and yeah. I love it to the depths of my heart. 0:03:30 Gus: Love it. ​ 0:03:32 Abby: Yeah, the fact that... Oh, you go, Gus. ​ 0:03:35 Gus: I was just going to say there was a part, fairly early on, when some woman is ​ flirting with Liam and Alanna gets super jealous and then we get our first actual reference to queerness in this series. 0:03:46 Abby: An acknowledgement that queerness exists. ​ 0:03:50 Gus: Of course, reference... Yeah, and, what does the woman say? She says like... ​ 0:03:55 Abby: Just like, ‘Oh the boy is in love with you.’ ​ 0:03:57 Gus: ‘Oh so the boy's in love with you then?’ Yeah. And it's like, wow, I guess this ​ isn't an actual instance of queerness but like... 0:04:04 Abby: No, it's ridiculous that we have gotten an acknowledgement that boys can be ​ in love with other boys, but not in a situation where that's actually happening. 0:04:13 Amy: I don't wanna be this person, but I did read it as like a sort of, ‘Boys can't be in ​ love with other boys, so I'm going to diminish your emotions by saying this thing that's like an insult to you.’ 0:04:27 Abby: I mean, I definitely think it was supposed to be somewhat insulting, but it was ​ acknowledging that the possibility is there that a boy could be in love with a boy. 0:04:37 Gus: Oh man. Yet again, our bar is so low. ​ [laughter] 0:04:38 Amy: Yeah, like I... I don't know, I kind of read it as like, ‘What are you even... Why ​ would you have a stake in this? Like, let me point out how ridiculous you sound by saying this,’ so I don't think this is like a queer championing you know. [laughter] 0:04:54 Gus: No, no. ​ 0:04:54 Abby: I guess you could read it as like, you know, ‘What, the boy is in love with you? ​ That's totally ridiculous. That would never happen.’ 0:05:02 Amy: Yeah. And like again, I don't wanna be that person right now, but like also, I ​ don't want to give credit where none is deserved. 0:05:08 Gus: Absolutely. ​ 01/01/19 Page 3 of 54 0:05:10 Abby: I can't I can't tell. I mean, you know, death of the author, it could go either ​ way, but I can't actually tell what she intended there. 0:05:16 Aurora: Same. ​ 0:05:17 Gus: And I think, regardless of what either the intent is or the outcome is, like you ​ no matter how you're reading it, it's still not great. 0:05:26 Abby: No, of course, not. ​ 0:05:26 Gus: Like, at no point is there any sort of like, ‘Wow, this is actually a good step.’ I ​ just like, I wanted to point out that it had been technically acknowledged. 0:05:34 Abby: Yeah, here it is. Alanna finally learned that queer people exist. ​ [laughter] 0:05:40 Amy: Yeah, and like someone... Yeah, I think someone pointed out that Thom is like ​ her twin brother... 0:05:47 Abby: Yeah, who is very gay. ​ 0:05:48 Amy: Who is like canonically gay but... ​ 0:05:50 Gus: Oh my god, he is so gay. ​ 0:05:50 Amy: That doesn't mean Alanna knows. ​ 0:05:52 Gus: No. ​ 0:05:52 Abby: Depending on your definition of ‘canonically.’ ​ 0:05:54 Amy: Well, sorry, extra canonically. ​ 0:05:56 Aurora: Extra. ​ 0:05:57 Abby: Yeah, ‘Word of God.’ ​ 0:05:58 Gus: Meta canonically? Yes. ​ 0:06:00 Amy: Yes. But like the I... There are a lot of people who don't realize that people in ​ their family are queer, so like... 0:06:06 Abby: True but also... ​ 0:06:06 Gus: Oh yeah. ​ 0:06:07 Abby: I mean, as we've... As we mentioned in the last episode, everyone in this ​ universe, except for Jon is queer, so Alanna is definitely also queer. 0:06:16 Aurora: [singing] It's true. ​ ​ 0:06:16 Amy: That's true. Yeah. ​ 01/01/19 Page 4 of 54 0:06:18 Gus: Yes. ​ 0:06:19 Aurora: I do... I have a question about that. Liam. ​ 0:06:23 Amy: Bi. ​ 0:06:24 Aurora: The're... Yeah, I think so too! Do you remember when he says... They were ​ talking about Roger. 0:06:31 Abby: Yeah. No and he like... ​ 0:06:31 Aurora: And he said that he'd met him once. ​ 0:06:32 Abby: ...looks off into the distance and he's like, “I met him once." ​ 0:06:33 Aurora: And his eyes turned this like, pale green.
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