COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

SENATE Official Hansard

TUESDAY, 26 AUGUST 1997

THIRTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—FIFTH PERIOD

BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE CANBERRA CONTENTS

TUESDAY, 26 AUGUST

Ministerial Arrangements ...... 5659 Shadow Ministry ...... 5659 Questions Without Notice— Vocational Education and Training ...... 5661 Taxation Reform ...... 5662 Distinguished Visitors ...... 5663 Questions Without Notice— Employment Placement Schemes ...... 5663 Alice Springs to Darwin Railway ...... 5664 Employment Placement Schemes ...... 5665 Greenhouse Gas Emissions ...... 5666 Working Holiday Maker Program ...... 5666 Natural Heritage Trust Fund ...... 5667 Australian National Training Authority ...... 5668 Small Business ...... 5669 Vocational Education and Training ...... 5670 ACT Heroin Trial ...... 5671 Abstudy ...... 5671 Heroin-related Deaths ...... 5672 Unemployment ...... 5673 Tertiary Education Ranking ...... 5674 Question Time ...... 5675 Answers to Questions Without Notice— X-rated Videos ...... 5676 Ministerial Code of Conduct ...... 5676 Jabiluka Uranium Mine ...... 5676 ACT Heroin Trial ...... 5676 Employment Placement Schemes ...... 5677 Condolences— Mr John FitzPatrick ...... 5683 Petitions— Food Labelling ...... 5684 Repatriation Benefits ...... 5684 Food Labelling ...... 5684 Superannuation ...... 5684 Native Title ...... 5684 Nursing Homes ...... 5685 Forest Protection ...... 5685 Native Title ...... 5685 Timed Local Calls ...... 5686 Cooked Chicken Meat ...... 5686 Notices of Motion— Textiles, Clothing and Footwear Industries ...... 5686 Higher Education: Undergraduate Fees and Abstudy ...... 5686 Superannuation Committee ...... 5686 Tobacco Advertising ...... 5686 Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee ...... 5687 Australian Broadcasting Corporation ...... 5687 Higher Education: Fees and Charges ...... 5687 High Court Judges ...... 5687 Order of Business— Australian Workplace Agreements ...... 5688 Days and Hours of Meeting ...... 5688 Orca Whales ...... 5688 Committees— Public Accounts Committee—Meeting ...... 5688 Gifts to The Senate ...... 5688 Matters of Urgency— CONTENTS—continued

Education and Employment ...... 5689 President: Visit to Japan ...... 5703 Parliamentary Retiring Allowances Trust ...... 5703 Constitutional Convention (Election) Bill 1997— Consideration of House of Representatives Message ...... 5703 Taxation Laws Amendment Bill (No. 3) 1997, Income Tax Rates Amendment Bill (No. 1) 1997— In Committee ...... 5703 Third Reading ...... 5703 Higher Education Funding Amendment Bill (No. 1) 1997— Second Reading ...... 5703 Documents— Tabling ...... 5708 Tabling ...... 5709 Beecroft Peninsula—(Question No. 590) ...... 5710 Private Prisons—(Question No. 594) ...... 5715 National Rural Women’s Forum—(Question No. 623) ...... 5716 Lucas Heights Nuclear Reactor—(Question No. 633) ...... 5718 Bifenthrin Pesticide—(Question No. 636) ...... 5721 Registered Clubs: Taxation Exemption—(Question No. 637) ...... 5722 Ningaloo Marine Park—(Question No. 638) ...... 5722 Minister for Finance ...... 5723 Federal Financial Assistance Grants: Funding Cuts—(Question No. 652)5724 Passenger Motor Vehicle Inquiry—(Question No. 656) ...... 5725 Royal Adelaide Hospital: Research—(Question No. 662) ...... 5733 Australian National—(Question No. 664) ...... 5734 Hazardous Waste—(Question No. 668) ...... 5734 Proposed Port Facilities; Vadhavan, India—(Question No. 671) ..... 5735 Second Sydney Airport—(Question No. 676) ...... 5735 World War I: Tasmanian Aboriginal Service—(Question No. 679) . . . 5736 Imported Food—(Question No. 681) ...... 5736 Importation of Cooked Chicken Meat—(Question No. 682) ...... 5737 Waterfront—(Question No. 684) ...... 5738 Quarantine: Pig Meat—(Question No. 691) ...... 5741 Housing—(Question No. 694) ...... 5743 Taxation ...... 5743 Common Youth Allowance ...... 5744 SENATE 5659

Tuesday, 26 August 1997 the reshuffle that was announced by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Beazley, earlier today. The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. I would particularly like to draw the Margaret Reid) took the chair at 2.00 p.m., Senate’s attention to the resignation of Sena- and read prayers. tor Bob Collins from the shadow frontbench. MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS Obviously, we will greatly miss his outstand- Senator HILL (South Australia—Leader of ing contribution. I would also like to draw to the Government in the Senate)—by leave— the Senate’s attention the appointment of Senator Herron will be absent from question Senator Kate Lundy and Senator Sue Mackay time today as a result of personal matters. to the frontbench. Senator Lundy has been During his absence, Senator Newman will appointed parliamentary secretary to the take questions relating to health and I will shadow minister for sport and tourism, and take questions relating to Aboriginal and assistant to the shadow ministers for science Torres Strait Islander affairs. and information technology, youth affairs and the arts. Senator Mackay has been appointed SHADOW MINISTRY as parliamentary secretary to the shadow Senator FAULKNER (New South Wales— ministers for employment and training and Leader of the Opposition in the Senate)—by industrial relations. I seek leave to incorporate leave—I propose to seek leave to incorporate the new list in Hansard. in Hansard a new list of shadow ministry Leave granted. representation and parliamentary secretaries for the opposition in both chambers following The list read as follows—

SHADOW MINISTRY

Shadow Minister Title Representative in other Chamber

Hon Kim C Beazley MP Senator John Faulkner Leader of the Opposition

Hon Gareth Evans QC MP Senator Nick Sherry Deputy Leader of the Opposition Shadow Treasurer Senator the Hon John Faulkner Hon Kim Beazley Leader of the Opposition in the Senate Shadow Minister for Public Administration, Hon Bob McMullan Government Services and Territories Senator the Hon Nick Sherry Hon Gareth Evans Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate Shadow Minister for Finance, Superannuation and Busi- ness Regulation Hon Arch Bevis MP Senator Chris Schacht Shadow Minister for Defence Senator the Hon Nick Bolkus Daryl Melham Shadow Attorney-General and Shadow Minister for Justice 5660 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Hon Laurie Brereton MP Senator Peter Cook Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs Senator the Hon Peter Cook Hon Laurie Brereton Shadow Minister for Trade Hon Simon Crean MP Senator Peter Cook Shadow Minister for Industry and Regional Development Manager of Opposition Business Martyn Evans MP Senator Kate Lundy Shadow Minister for Science and Information Technology Laurie Ferguson MP Senator Belinda Neal Shadow Minister for Veterans’ Affairs Shadow Minister for Defence Science and Personnel Senator Chris Schacht

Martin Ferguson MP Senator Nick Bolkus Shadow Minister for Employment,Training, Population and Immigration Assistant to the Leader on Multicultural Affairs Hon Duncan Kerr MP Senator John Faulkner Shadow Minister for the Environment Mark Latham MP Senator Kim Carr Shadow Minister for Education and Youth Affairs Hon Michael Lee MP Senator Michael Forshaw Shadow Minister for Health Jenny Macklin MP Senator Belinda Neal Shadow Minister for Social Security and the Aged Assistant to the Leader of the Opposition on the Status of Women Hon Bob McMullan MP Senator Sue Mackay Shadow Minister for Industrial Relations and the Arts Senator Kate Lundy Hon Stephen Martin MP Senator Peter Cook Shadow Minister for Small Business and Customs Shadow Minister for Sport and Tourism Senator Kate Lundy Daryl Melham MP Senator Nick Bolkus Shadow Minister for Aboriginal Affairs Assistant to the Shadow Foreign Minister on Arms Control Senator Belinda Neal Laurie Ferguson Shadow Min for Consumer Affairs, Local Government, Housing and Childcare Jenny Macklin Hon Neil O’Keefe MP Senator Michael Forshaw Shadow Minister for Primary Industries Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5661

Senator the Hon Chris Schacht Hon. Michael Lee Shadow Minister for Communications Stephen Smith MP Senator Peter Cook Shadow Minister for Resources and Energy Lindsay Tanner MP Senator Chris Schacht Shadow Minister for Transport PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES

Senator Kim Carr Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate Parliamentary Secretary to the Shadow Minister for Education Senator Michael Forshaw Parliamentary Secretary to the Shadow Ministers for Health and Primary Industries Senator Kate Lundy Parliamentary Secretary to the Shadow Minister for Sport and Tourism Assistant to the Shadow Ministers for Science and Information Technology, Youth Affairs and the Arts Gavan O’Connor MP Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Opposition and the Shadow Minister for Primary Industries Spokesperson on Northern Australia

Senator Sue Mackay Parliamentary Secretary to the Shadow Ministers for Employment and Training, and for Industrial Relations Andrew Theophanous MP Secretary to the Shadow Ministry Kelvin Thomson MP Parliamentary Secretary to the Shadow Treasurer and to the Shad- ow Minister for Population and Immigration

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Senator VANSTONE—For the benefit of other senators, Senator Faulkner is referring Vocational Education and Training to a speech made some weeks ago to the Senator FAULKNER—My question is American Chamber of Commerce outlining, directed to Senator Vanstone, the Minister for as I indicated yesterday, a very broad picture Employment, Education, Training and Youth for the need for schools to respond to the Affairs. Minister, did you receive from needs of their students. In that speech, ABS DEETYA advice about the data you used to figures were used in relation to the destination make comparisons between public and private of school leavers, indicating that X per cent schools on the basis of employment out- of year 12 school leavers—I think it was in comes? If so, what was the nature of the 1995—from government schools would go in advice? Were your comments that public one direction and another percentage in school leavers are 10 times more likely to be another direction, with a similar sort of unemployed than their private school counter- arrangement for the non-government schools. parts based, as your spokesperson indicated, on ABS data? Is it correct, Minister, that this The whole point of the speech was to ABS data was unpublished and, if so, what indicate that schools have to respond to the cautions were associated with its use? changing labour market—something I indicat- 5662 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 ed yesterday. I think I pointed out yesterday surplus within three years. We tackled interest that over about a decade—and it is a bit more rates which burdened so many within the than a decade—the size of the youth employ- Australian economy, particularly small busi- ment labour force has reduced dramatically— ness, and have achieved five reductions in the by about a half, I would think—indicating first 15 months of government. We tackled that if you leave school leavers to go straight industrial relations with the most significant from school into that market, they are going reforms for decades in the Workplace Rela- into a market with an ever reducing number tions Act and achieved goals that will benefit of jobs. both employers and employees. Subsequent to that speech, I have received We are now tackling tax reform—that area some advice from my department in relation that all have agreed for so long is in need of to figures for school leavers, but I do not reform but governments have not had the have it in front of me. I will have a look at it; courage to tackle. This government has the I will come back and I will give Senator courage. What has happened is that the Prime Faulkner as much information as I can in Minister has instructed the taxation task force relation to that. to prepare options in accordance with key Senator FAULKNER—Madam President, criteria. The criteria—and it is important to I asked Senator Vanstone—and I ask again— emphasis this to the Australian public— whether the ABS data was unpublished data include the following: the overall tax burden and, if so, what cautions were associated with must not be increased. Contrast that with its use. Given that you have now indicated to Gareth Evans, the Deputy Leader of the Labor the Senate that you have received advice from Party. He wants to put back death duties. He your department, I ask you: did that advice wants to see state income taxes. draw any conclusions? If not, Minister, did Senator Cook—Rubbish! you interpret the data yourself or was some Senator HILL—Yes, he does, Senator other advice sought? Cook. He told the states, ‘Increase your Senator VANSTONE—I repeat to you payroll taxes. That is the answer to your what I told you in the first place: I do not problems.’ That shows how interested he is in have the advice in front of me. I will have a employment, I would suggest. Anyway, under look at it and I will come back to you with the coalition the overall tax burden must not such information as is appropriate from that be increased. advice. It is as simple as that. Secondly, personal income tax has to be Taxation Reform reduced and families have to receive special attention. That is not surprising because it was Senator TROETH—My question is ad- this government that produced the family tax dressed to the Leader of the Government in package and delivered it in full and on time. the Senate, Senator Hill. Minister, the coali- So our second criteria is that personal income tion government has found that the taxation tax be reduced. system is in urgent need of reform and is inappropriate to Australia’s needs as we move Senator Conroy—What about jobs? How towards the 20th century. What are the cri- many jobs? teria that the government’s taxation task force Senator HILL—When we talk about tax is using to ensure that Australia has a fairer reform, we talk about reductions in taxation. and more modern tax system which provides Senator Sherry—What about the superan- incentives to work and save, and which will nuation tax? promote jobs, exports and investment? The PRESIDENT—Order! Senator Hill— Senator HILL—This is a very important question. Yes, this government is a govern- Senator HILL—That is something we ment of reform and leadership. We tackled never heard from the Labor Party. The Labor first the fiscal mess that we inherited—$10.3 Party—the higher tax alternative. billion of deficit and we will turn that into a Opposition senators interjecting— Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5663

The PRESIDENT—Order! Senator Hill, I Malaysian branch of the Commonwealth am not surprised you cannot hear me because Parliamentary Association led by the Minister of the level of noise on my left. A reasonable for Science, Technology and Environment, the interjection from time to time is not some- Hon. Dato Abu Bakar Bin Daud. On behalf thing anyone would rule out of order but the of honourable senators, I welcome you to the sort of shouting that is going on today makes Senate and trust that your visit here will be it impossible for me to hear Senator Hill or both informative and enjoyable. for him to hear me. Honourable senators—Hear, hear! Senator HILL—The third criteria is that consideration be given to a broad based QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE indirect tax to replace some or all of the Employment Placement Schemes existing indirect taxes. How could you look at broad based tax reform without looking at Senator CHILDS—My question is directed that issue? Of course you cannot. Labor Party to the Minister for Employment, Education, advisers are telling them that you cannot. Training and Youth Affairs, Senator Labor Party spokesmen say that they would Vanstone. Why has the government changed have introduced a GST if they had won the the definition of an employment placement last election. Anyway, we have the courage to for the purposes of paying a success fee for look at the broad based indirect alternatives new private employment agencies from 20 because it is in the national interest to do so. hours a week to 15 hours a week? Does the government believe 15 hours a week is a real Fourthly, compensation must be made job? Isn’t it true, as was pointed out in the available to those deserving special consider- Sydney Morning Herald on 8 August, that you ation—low income earners, for example. It is have had to lower the hurdle to a pathetic important that their interests are taken into level in order to try to make your scheme a account. Fifthly, it is seen as an opportunity success? to reform Commonwealth-state financial relations—something that has been called for Senator VANSTONE—No, Senator Childs, for years. But under Labor did it occur? No. that is simply not correct, as you know from Did Labor face up to that challenge? No. the announcement in the budget last year about the radical reforms we were to make to Senator Sherry—What did Kennett call employment services. We have indicated that Costello? from that time on we would be consulting The PRESIDENT—Senator Sherry, if you with the relevant stakeholders—that means are going to shriek, at least use the proper obviously those within the department with terminology for members of the other place. experience in these matters, through the CES Senator HILL—It is not surprising that and the very broad network we have there. As they are embarrassed by this because in all you know, we have established a public their years in government they were not employment placement enterprise that will, in prepared to face up to this key area of eco- a sense, be the old CES newly corporatised nomic reform. They never had the courage to but with private providers and community take the hard decisions in this area. The last providers as well. criteria—this is very important; this is one of Against that you will understand, Senator, the most important criteria—is restoring that the Bureau of Statistics monthly unem- fairness in the taxation system. They are the ployment figures consider that you are em- criteria within which the government is ployed if you have one hour a week or more tackling this important reform package. Just in work. contrast that with Labor—(Time expired) Senator Childs—We are talking about— DISTINGUISHED VISITORS Senator VANSTONE—Senator, I am The PRESIDENT—Order! I draw the coming to your answer. I actually think you attention of honourable senators to the pres- are quite interested in it. For the purposes of ence in the gallery of members of the the Bureau of Statistics that is an internation- 5664 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 ally recognised standard measurement of ment enterprise, ‘Yes, we believe you’ve got whether you are employed or not. Obviously this person a job’ and we believe that it is at that would not be a satisfactory measure to the point at which someone will be 70 per use in terms of paying outcome fees. cent or more off benefit. That is, they will Senator Jacinta Collins—You are drop- more likely than not be independent. That is ping the current measure. all the calculation is for, nothing more than that. (Time expired) Senator VANSTONE—Madam President, I am trying to answer this question but if you Alice Springs to Darwin Railway allow the cacklers over there to keep at it, it does make it a little more difficult for Senator Senator FERGUSON—My question is Childs to get his answer. directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Transport and Regional Develop- What we have done through the consulta- ment, Senator Alston. Minister, before the tions is ascertain, as best we think is possible, 1983 election, the then opposition leader, Mr what would the levels of hours worked per Bob Hawke, said: week be that would take you either off benefit I promise you that only a Labor Government can or substantially off benefit. In other words, be trusted to build the Alice Springs to Darwin the purpose of the employment services railway line. reforms is to make you independent, to give you sufficient work that you could at least Minister, now 14 years later, it has taken a say, ‘I am now responsible for myself,’ and federal coalition government to progress an no longer be dependent. The calculation is agreement with the Northern Territory and that about that level of hours a week is when South Australian governments to pledge $300 you will be in that position. million to develop this important rail link. Minister, what is the significance of the rail Senator CHILDS—Madam President, I ask link to the nation as a whole? How many jobs a supplementary question. Minister, is this the will be created during the construction and way your government proposes to solve the operation period? unemployment crisis, by redefining what it means to be employed? Senator ALSTON—Indeed, it has taken 14 years to get there and it is only a coalition Senator VANSTONE—Senator, you were government that can deliver the goods. The poorly advised to take that question from fact is that many people have talked about whomever you did. I have already indicated this project, many people have seen the to you that the ABS— potential for it, but it has only been the Senator Cook—You haven’t answered it coalition government that has been prepared yet. to grasp the nettle. What we would expect is Senator VANSTONE—The question is that it will provide a brand new pathway for answered, Senator, so let me repeat it for you. freight to travel through a new Asian gateway It is a little bit difficult with whom you are and create enormous opportunities to open up sitting behind, Senator, to look past that face the bulk of the country in a way that has not that is snarling at me, but nonetheless. The happened before. Bureau of Statistics definitions of employment If you look at what the Wran report had to and unemployment are not being touched by say back in 1995 you will see that it predicted this government in any way whatsoever. They that the railway would become economic remain exactly the same as they were when early next century. It clearly does involve a you were in government. So let us get rid of significant level of private sector involvement. that little red herring that someone might be We have made it very clear that the private asking you to toss in in ignorance. We are not sector must build, own and operate this line. changing the definitions of employment or The predictions are that during the construc- unemployment in any way whatsoever. tion phase there will be in the order of 2,000 All we are doing is ascertaining the point at jobs and during the operation stage there will which we will say to an employment place- be at least 200 jobs, a very significant contri- Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5665 bution to employment but, much more import- What that shows up is the absolute barren- antly, a very major contribution to the open- ness of the Labor Party frontbench which ing up of the centre of Australia and to cannot even find anyone to replace a person making sure that the southern states have of the calibre of Senator Collins. Here you access to the north in a way that they have have Senator Collins saying, ‘The Hawke not had before. government offered a 60:40 deal with the Northern Territory government and that figure What is particularly significant about this would mean $600 million in today’s dollars.’ commitment is that Labor pretends that somehow it is on the bandwagon, that some- It is absolutely extraordinary that this outfit how it would like to go out there and say that thinks that they can persuade people that it would have done even more. As Senator something they could not get around to doing Ferguson quite rightly pointed out, you have for 14 years, something that was not only too to go back to 1983 to come across the origi- hard but something that they bagged on a nal weasel words. I suspect what Hawke was regular basis, is now not only their policy but doing at the time was having a bit of a dry something on which they would have spent run for the l-a-w, law, tax cuts repeal because, hundreds of millions of dollars more than we having given that solemn promise, what did are committing to this project. It is totally he do? Within a matter of weeks, he reneged. unbelievable. You cannot regard this as a They said it was not on and they would not substitute for leadership. In no shape or form proceed with the rail link. is that going to delude anyone into thinking that you have anything other than contempt There was an outcry and the then Treasurer, for the voters’ credibility. (Time expired) Mr Keating, committed the government to Employment Placement Schemes spending $5 million on design work. They completed that, and by 28 March 1984 you Senator O’BRIEN—My question is to the had the Prime Minister, Mr Hawke, describing Minister for Employment, Education, Training the railway as totally unrealistic and uneco- and Youth Affairs. Minister, is it a fact that nomic. That is basically where it has been the tender documents for the government’s ever since as far as Labor is concerned. We plan to outsource CES duties state that then had Senator Walsh getting up in here DEETYA ‘will not pay the provider for any and calling it another bout of cargo cultism FLEX 1 outcomes that exceed the contracted and saying that it was a waste of $160 million number’? Isn’t it a fact that this means that worth of taxpayers’ money on a white ele- job placement firms replacing the CES will phant—all those sorts of expressions that not be paid for exceeding levels specified in made it absolutely clear that they had no their job contracts? intention of going down this path. Senator VANSTONE—Senator, as I recall, this is a question canvassed by you quite fully In fact, Senator Bob Collins on several at estimates. I do not know whether you are occasions made it abundantly clear that he asking it again because you do not remember had the same approach as the opposition— the answer or whether you have just collec- unless and until the private sector committed, tively got nothing more important to ask they were not interested. That is why it is the about than things that are already on the absolute height of hypocrisy to find that record. I am tempted, Senator, simply to refer Senator Collins—and I see he is back in the you to the Senate estimates Hansard record. Territory campaigning, presumably using federal taxpayers’ funds, in a Territory elec- Senator Crowley—Tell us again if you tion—has finally thrown in the towel. And we have told us before. know why he threw in the towel—because Senator VANSTONE—Senator Crowley, Kim Beazley, in his usual burst of leadership, you do tempt me. Madam President, Senator removed one of his additional staffers from Crowley is really seeking that I waste the him and he said he just was not prepared to time of the Senate. The estimates committees hack it any longer. are held outside of Senate sitting time; they 5666 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 are held outside of Senate sitting time for the government department on the implications of express purpose of stopping things being Australia pulling out of the climate change hashed and hashed and hashed through esti- convention? If so, what was that advice, and mates and then rehashed through here. Sena- can you please table it? tor, I refer you to the Senate estimates Hans- Senator HILL—It would have been helpful ard where you will see that the representation if you had given me notice of the supplemen- you have put is incorrect. You are either tary as well and then I could have done some being misleading or you were not listening at research on that. Our interest is to stay in the the time. It is one or the other. negotiations to contribute to a good Kyoto Senator O’BRIEN—Madam President, I outcome. By that I mean a good outcome in ask a supplementary question. I remind the terms of the global environment and one that minister that we were given the great grace of is not unfair as it relates to Australia. They the details of this program the Friday before are the dual objectives that we have been the estimates program began and we were not seeking throughout this process. given adequate time to look at this in order to I know the issues of jobs, employment ask questions on estimates. Nevertheless, I growth, economic growth and the benefits that think we did a reasonable job. But I am can flow from that may not be of great seeking clarification of the implications of the importance to the Australian Democrats, but terms of the contract. Can you confirm my they are issues of importance to the Australian understanding of the situation, which is that government. We will continue to work for the unemployed people will be turned away from dual objectives of a good global greenhouse any private job placement firms that have outcome and the preservation of Australia’s spent the funds allocated to them? employment base. Senator VANSTONE—On the basis of the answer given to you at the estimates commit- Working Holiday Maker Program tee, I assert that that is an incorrect assertion Senator JACINTA COLLINS—My for you to be putting, and I refer you to the question is to Senator Vanstone, the Minister Hansard. As I recall, you were present at the for Employment, Education, Training and time. Youth Affairs and the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Multicultur- Greenhouse Gas Emissions al Affairs. Minister, why has the government Senator LEES—My question is to Senator increased the working holiday maker program Hill, the Minister representing the Prime by 10 per cent to 55,000 places when youth Minister. Minister, can you confirm that Kofi unemployment is running at 27.8 per cent? Annan, the United Nations Secretary-General, How is this going to help young unemployed recently sent a communication to Prime Australians? Minister Howard expressing the view that Australia must stay in the climate change Senator VANSTONE—Senator Collins, I convention and cooperate with the rest of the do not have in my brief an indication of— world in curbing greenhouse gas emissions? Senator Cook—You are the minister. You Can you also confirm that this communication are supposed to know. Don’t you know? was sent on or about 6 August? The PRESIDENT—Order! Senator Cook! Senator HILL—No, Senator, you are Senator VANSTONE—Thank you very apparently in error. much, Madam President. In the brief provided Senator LEES—Madam President, I ask a by the immigration minister, I do not have an supplementary question. I did give you some indication of a change there, but I do recall a notice of this question. Indeed, I would not change being made last year. I do not know have asked it unless we were very certain that if that is the change you are referring to. this communique had occurred. I will move There might have been a subsequent one but, on and ask a related question. Have you or if there was, I have not been advised of it, to any other minister received advice from any the best of my knowledge anyway. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5667

Senator, it is a traditional problem for what Senator VANSTONE—I do not know you would call seasonal picking work. There when you people are going to get too embar- is enormous difficulty in getting the appropri- rassed to ask about employment issues. You ate labour force. For a variety of reasons, that had 13 years to fix the problem, and look at is not always attractive to people who are your appalling record. You had an average looking for work. If you are a young unem- unemployment rate of 8.5 per cent. Under ployed teenager in Melbourne, it might be of which party did youth unemployment go to its assistance for you to get some short-term highest record ever? Under that party—the work picking grapes in Victoria somewhere Labor Party, the guilty party. So I will have for a limited period of time, but perhaps you a good look at it, Senator, and I will come are more likely to be looking for a more back to you if there is anything I want to add. permanent arrangement. So there are circum- stances under which this sort of seasonal work Natural Heritage Trust Fund is not as attractive. Senator MARGETTS—My question is to But, without doubt, it is a problem for those the Minister representing the Minister repre- industries that require this seasonal work to senting the Minister for Primary Industries fill that employment need. It is always a and Energy and the Minister for the Environ- difficulty for them. We have had to make ment, Senator Hill. In respect of the an- some special arrangements vis-a-vis the new nouncement by the Minister for Primary employment services market because of that Industries and Energy on 1 July concerning specific difficulty. It is because of the diffi- new tax incentives for Landcare, is it the case culty in filling that need, of people choosing that these incentives will be paid for from the to look for other work, shall I put it, rather Natural Heritage Trust, rather than from than taking that work, that in the past those general revenue? How much are these incen- visa entitlements have been increased. At the tives expected to cost per annum? What will same time, we are always looking for our occur after the majority of the money in the young Australians to be able to go overseas Natural Heritage Trust is depleted? Are any and get visas for short-term work—not a of these incentives effective replacements of situation that we can readily encourage and existing incentives, and does this mean that enhance if the reciprocal opportunity is not the money now coming from general revenue made available. as revenue forgone will have to be paid for from the Natural Heritage Trust Fund? Having said that I do not have a brief on it, I will raise this matter with the immigration Senator HILL—As the Minister represent- minister. If there is any more information he ing the Minister representing the Minister for wishes to raise with you, I will come back to Primary Industries and Energy, I can remind you. If, as a consequence of the information the honourable senator that, in the sustainable given to me, there is anything further I should agricultural election policy statement, the add to it, I will. government proposed to give farmers a choice between claiming accelerated depreciation for Senator JACINTA COLLINS—Madam Landcare works under sections 75B and 75D President, I ask a supplementary question. of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 and Minister, do you know whether the working claiming a tax rebate credit set at a rate of holiday maker program involves predominant- 34c in the dollar. ly seasonal jobs, as your answer has perhaps suggested? Could you please on notice pro- On 1 July 1997, the minister announced vide an answer to the question asked and also that the new Landcare tax measure of 34c in comment on how this change, this increase of the dollar was available for expenditures that 10 per cent in our climate of youth unemploy- qualified for the existing Landcare tax deduc- ment, relates to the election pledge that tions and that were incurred from 1 July. reducing youth unemployment would be Mr Specific details of eligibility were to be Howard’s highest priority? announced in the future. 5668 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

The government is committed to the sus- order to satisfy the requirements of the tainable development of our primary indus- government’s new apprenticeship scheme, an tries and to providing for a productive base increase in young people enrolling in TAFE on which to develop that industry, including as a consequence of changes in youth income by arresting land degradation. While there is support policy, and the normal growth pat- widespread appreciation of the need for terns in the sector from population growth? improved resource management, economic Was Dr Kemp also advised that states could factors limit the ability of farmers to address not be expected to fund this rate of growth by this issue, and this is putting Landcare at risk. efficiency gains alone? Why has the govern- Yes, Landcare is an important part of the ment simply refused to acknowledge this Natural Heritage Trust and a part of the trust reality? that is administered by the Minister for Senator VANSTONE—Senator Carr, you Primary Industries and Energy. We trust that have my commiserations on not having been these changes—and the specific details of promoted to the frontbench. eligibility are still to be announced—will lead Senator Sherry—He’s on the frontbench. to better Landcare outcomes, and that should be applauded. Senator VANSTONE—I mean promoted. I do not know whether your side does it by Senator MARGETTS—The minister did merit or by vote, and I am not really interest- not answer the part of the question in relation ed in how the Labor Party works. But Senator to what happens when this trust fund runs out Carr might have been hoping for a promotion and you have a tax deduction. By way of a and, out of the goodness of my heart, I am supplementary question, I ask him to answer expressing my sympathy to him for not that question which he has not answered, as having received that promotion. well as to answer this next question. Does the existing tax deduction come from a depart- Getting to Senator Carr’s question, he asked mental budget? Specifically, does the existing me whether Dr Kemp—the junior minister in Landcare deduction come from the environ- my portfolio—received some quite specific ment budget? If not, why is this so-called advice from ANTA, the Australian National environment fund, which you touted as being Training Authority. The issue he seeks infor- a big plus for the environment, suddenly mation about is whether advice has been providing money for tax deductions which received, as I understand it, with respect to would normally come from general revenue? the sorts of efficiencies that could be sought and whether those efficiencies would be Senator HILL—Senator Margetts refuses sufficient to meet the government’s aspira- to acknowledge that the Natural Heritage tions. I do not see every piece of advice that Trust has an objective of sustainable agricul- Dr Kemp gets. ture. It is to produce a better biodiversity Senator Carr—Come on! outcome consistent with improved sustainable agriculture. There has been no secret about Senator VANSTONE—No, I do not. Nor that. Landcare funding, as I recall it, is made do I want to see every piece of advice Dr up in part from recurrent expenditure and in Kemp gets. I will tell you what I will do, part from the capital funding to be provided Senator Carr. I will ask Dr Kemp the question under the Natural Heritage Trust. and I will get him to reply on notice to you. Senator CARR—Madam President, I ask Australian National Training Authority a supplementary question. Minister, isn’t it Senator CARR—My question is to the true that Dr Kemp has been advised by your Minister for Employment, Education, Training department that the potential efficiency gains and Youth Affairs, Senator Vanstone. that could be achieved at the minimum level Minister, was Dr Kemp officially advised by consistent with government policy would ANTA recently ‘that the number of govern- require savings by the states in the order of ment funded VET clients would have to grow $144.5 million for New South Wales, $49 by between 30,226 and 84,992 in 1998’ in million for South Australia and $34 million Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5669 for Western Australia? Does the government The PRESIDENT—Order! There are far believe that such savings are achievable, or do too many persistent interjections on my left. you accept the advice given that gains of this order would be problematic? Senator KEMP—Indeed, the contempt that the Labor Party felt for small business was Senator VANSTONE—Senator Carr, I shown in the fact that Senator Schacht was indicated to you yesterday that the govern- given carriage of this important area. ment would be particularly interested in the opposition’s view on whether the vocational The Labor Party record in relation to small training system was operating at 100 per cent business saw higher taxes, industrial relations efficiency or not—in other words, do you laws which caused huge problems to small believe there are efficiencies there that can be business and, of course, record interest rates. applied to new places or do you not? That is Our policies across the board are designed to probably the first point we need to get to so help small business grow, invest and create that members of the public understand who jobs. Whether the issue is interest rates, thinks what. industrial relations or tax reform, we are the party of small business; we are the govern- We have made our position abundantly ment of small business. clear. We believe there are efficiencies there. What you are asking me is whether Dr Kemp The government has a very fine record in has had a specific piece of advice from the relation to small business, and many key department in relation to that. I will take your measures are already in law to help small supplementary question—which in fact was business. In the area of taxation, for example, not a supplementary question; it was just an we have cut the provisional uplift factor and additional question—on notice and get Dr made sure it is kept at a reasonable level, Kemp to reply to you. unlike Labor who, year after year, kept the uplift factor unreasonably high, damaging Small Business small business cash flows. Senator CRANE—My question is to Senator Kemp, the Assistant Treasurer. Since We have eased the FBT record-keeping the coalition was elected to government, burdens on small business, something which important initiatives have been introduced to the Labor Party never did. We have taken a assist small business—such as the historic number of other measures in relation to FBT reforms to industrial relations laws, a reduc- to ease the burden on small business. We tion in the provisional uplift factor from eight have also allowed small business to remit tax per cent to six per cent, capital gains tax withholding payments quarterly rather than rollover relief and the introduction of the monthly—something else that the Labor Party small business innovation fund. never did. Senator Schacht interjecting— We committed ourselves in the election to help small business by providing CGT roll- Senator CRANE—None of these measures over relief when small business owners sold was ever introduced by Senator Schacht, I their business to buy another and where might add. Will the minister outline what owners used the proceeds of their business for other benefits, particularly in the area of retirement. From the feedback that I have taxation, the government is providing to small received, these measures have been particular- business, the hub of job creation in Australia? ly welcome. Senator KEMP—Thank you, Senator Crane, for a most important and perceptive The reality is that, given its 13-year record, question. the Labor Party is anti small business. They saddled small business with high interest Opposition senators interjecting— rates, some reaching up to 20 per cent. They Senator KEMP—There is no doubt in the saddled small business with crippling unfair mind of the government that small business dismissal laws; they saddled them with moun- is the heart of job creation in this country— tains of red tape. 5670 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

In the behaviour of the Senate in recent prepared on July 1 1997 that: Australia’s days it can be seen that the Labor Party participation rate in vocational education pro- continues to pursue anti small business poli- grams was substantially below international cies and continues to attempt to prevent the benchmarks; that for 18- to 24-year-olds government putting into effect its election Australia would need to increase its efforts by promises to small business, as we saw last between 27 and 86 per cent to reach interna- night in relation to the CGT rollover relief. tional best practice; and that a national growth We are the party of small business and, after target of 2½ per cent in government funded 13 years, there is no doubt that the Labor clients would not address underlying demand Party continues with a record of being the for new apprenticeships and for TAFE places most damaging to small business, and they arising from youth income support changes or have not changed their ways in recent months. international benchmarks? Senator CRANE—Madam President, I ask Minister, you attended the Minco meeting: a supplementary question. Minister, could you did you receive a copy of this briefing paper? also inform the Senate of the very positive Did you read this briefing paper, and will you reaction we have had from small business, now acknowledge that your government’s particularly after the disastrous 13 years of decision to withdraw funding for growth in Labor? TAFE was a mistake? Senator KEMP—Given the appalling Senator VANSTONE—Senator Bishop, I record of Labor in this area, I think there was do not accept the assertions you put at the a collective sigh of relief throughout the small end of your question, and the government business community when this government does not accept them. We believe that there came in with very positive policies to help are efficiencies in the vocational training small business. system that can be found. We wait to hear One of the areas which small business from you and your government whether you particularly welcomed was the low interest agree that efficiencies can be found. rate policy of this government, in contrast to You asked me whether Dr Kemp received the party of high interest rates, the Australian a paper on 1 July this year. My memory is Labor Party, which raised interest rates time pretty good but it does not go back to 1 July and time again, regardless of the cost to small this year, and it certainly does not ever try to business. accommodate a list of every brief that Dr Small business has also welcomed the tax Kemp has ever had. You asked me if I was at changes that we have made in relation to the most recent ANTA Minco meeting. Yes, things like fringe benefits to ease the burden I was. Did I see a lot of papers in relation to of record keeping. This party has a very that? Yes, I did. As to the specific paper that proud record in relation to small business—in you mention, I will have a look. I will come absolute, stark contrast to the Australian back to you if I have got anything to add. Labor Party. Senator BISHOP—Madam President, I ask The PRESIDENT—Order! It seems to me, a supplementary question. Minister, when you Senator Crane, that that question ought to look at the briefing paper can you advise have been directed to Senator Alston, who has whether, in regard to vocational education and responsibility for small business, and not training, an expansion of participation should Senator Kemp. not be as high a priority as an increase in conversion of participation rates into qualifi- Vocational Education and Training cation attainment? Doesn’t this advice support Senator BISHOP—My question is directed industry concerns that the Commonwealth to Senator Vanstone, Minister for Employ- government’s underfunded new apprenticeship ment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs. scheme does not adequately address the issue Minister, was the Minister for Schools, Voca- of the quality of training provided? tional Education and Training, Dr Kemp, Senator VANSTONE—Senator, I have advised by his department in a briefing paper indicated to you that I will have a look. If Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5671 you have more things, as you have indicated Senator HILL—As has been said, the task in your supplementary question, that you want force will look at current efforts to reduce the me to check for you, I will come back and supply of illicit drugs, including domestic law give a response to the assertions that you enforcement and border control. Current make. The typical form of you people when efforts to reduce the demand for such drugs asking a question is to make an assertion. I include community education, community will have a look at it. I will come back to you organisation support programs and harm if I think there is anything I want to add. minimisation approaches for users. I am sure the task force will take advice from all those ACT Heroin Trial who can better inform it in its task. We regard this matter as a critical concern for the Senator BOURNE—My question is to the Australian community and we want to be sure Leader of the Government in the Senate we get the best response possible. representing the Prime Minister. I ask: has the minister seen reports of allegations made on Abstudy the Sunday program on 24 August that Mr Senator DENMAN—My question is to Rupert Murdoch played a significant role in Senator Vanstone, the Minister for Employ- the Prime Minister’s decision to withdraw ment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs. Commonwealth support for the ACT govern- Is it correct that the government’s recently ment heroin trial? Is it the case that Mr announced review of Abstudy is to be budget Murdoch warned the Prime Minister that, if neutral? Is it also correct, as your department the heroin trial gained government support, has stated, that Abstudy is a demand driven the Prime Minister would be attacked in Mr program operating under special appropri- Murdoch’s media? Finally, as the Prime ations, which means that if there is an in- Minister’s office called the Sunday program creased demand for Abstudy it will be met? to deny that John Howard or Rupert Murdoch Further, if recommendations from the Abstudy discussed the heroin trial at their Kirribilli review are to be budget neutral, doesn’t this House meeting, at which meeting did they mean that either the program will be capped discuss the matter? or, if places are increased, they will be underfunded? Senator HILL—He played no role. I was Senator VANSTONE—Thank you, Senator going to say to you that I understand there Denman, for that question. There is a review was no discussion at Kirribilli House. He told of Abstudy which is about to be undertaken, that to the party room this morning, so I will which has been announced for some time. It accept that. I know of no other discussion is not a review that is seeking savings, which between the Prime Minister and Mr Murdoch might be what you are wanting to get to. The of recent times. I regard the suggestion as details of the review were announced on 5 scurrilous. August. It is going to look at whether Senator BOURNE—Madam President, I Abstudy in its current form is appropriate. ask a supplementary question. I thank the You might be aware that in respect of the minister for that reassurance. Can he further common youth allowance which has put assure the Senate that the Prime Minister’s together so many payments relating to youth drug task force will take into account the Abstudy has, at least for the time being, been views of the combined health and police excluded because it is recognised that it is a ministers, the AMA, Professor Pennington and separate payment with a separate need. the New South Wales Police Commissioner, The review is going ahead. There will be even though they believed that the heroin trial consultations with indigenous people, com- should go ahead, or will they be taking all munity organisations and educational institu- their advice, as Chief Minister Kate Carnell tions. In particular, an indigenous consultant has suggested, from people who agree with will be engaged to assist with the review. The the Prime Minister, such as some of the more review was confirmed in this year’s budget. colourful talk-back radio commentators? As I say, the announcement of the details was 5672 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 made on 5 August. We want to see how the than before, making a series of mean-spirited features of Abstudy, which we believe are funding cuts in the 1997-98 budget? critical to improving outcomes for indigenous students, can be provided in the most cost- Senator VANSTONE—It had been indicat- effective way. ed for some time that we would proceed with such a review. Nonetheless, there were some A discussion paper is to be circulated. I am changes that it seemed apparent at the time not aware whether that has happened yet. I could be made. In a package of savings that, imagine it has not, but it should not be too far as I recall—I will come back and give you down the track. The indigenous consultant the detail of these figures—is about $10 that I have already mentioned to you will, no million a year over four years, which pales doubt, be using the discussion paper as a into insignificance compared to the increased basis for some of those consultations. funding that I referred to in my substantive A steering committee has been established answer, there were about 13 adjustments to be to guide the conduct of the review. It includes made to Abstudy to make it fairer. They are representatives of the Office of Indigenous not ones that I would have thought anyone on Affairs, the Commonwealth Services Delivery either side of the house would disagree with. Agency and the Department of Social Securi- Within those 13—I will come back and very ty, as well as relevant officers from quickly give you two examples of those— DEETYA. there is one that we have had some trouble with, and we are negotiating with the educa- As to the other aspects of your question, I tional institutions affected by that to ensure will check my view of those. I will take that that they are not inappropriately disadvan- detailed aspect on notice and come back to taged. Let me give an example. Abstudy you. I do not think there is any more informa- students can return home for compassionate tion here that is worth adding in relation to leave—(Time expired) your question, other than perhaps to say that this government, along with the previous Heroin-related Deaths government, is very committed to increasing educational outcomes for indigenous students. Senator EGGLESTON—I direct my question to the Minister for Customs and You will understand that last year, in a very Consumer Affairs and the Minister represent- difficult budgetary climate, more money— ing the Attorney-General. I would first like to additional money—was provided for indigen- congratulate Senator Ellison on his appoint- ous education and some moneys were protect- ment and wish him a long and successful ed from savings. That package of moneys ministerial career. falls into two blocks. There is the IESIP funding, which is per capita funding from Senator Faulkner—It certainly couldn’t be preschool to vocational training level. Some any shorter than Prosser’s; let’s face it. very particular outcomes are being achieved Senator EGGLESTON—Senator Ellison there in terms of the level of traineeships. is a very fine Western Australian senator, The other portion of the increased and Senator Faulkner. In my home State of West- secured moneys relates to an increase in ern Australia there is deep concern, as there funding for the higher education sector for is throughout Australia, over the level of indigenous students. I mention that at the end heroin-related deaths. What law enforcement because I want it to be abundantly clear that initiatives is the government taking to deal the review process of Abstudy is not a sav- with this dreadful problem? ings measure. It has not got a brief to find Senator ELLISON—I thank Senator savings. Eggleston for his question. I realise that Senator DENMAN—Madam President, I Senator Eggleston, a senator from the north- ask a supplementary question. Minister, could west of Australia, is vitally interested in this you tell me what the rationale was for an- area. Having practised as a general practition- nouncing the review of Abstudy after, rather er, he is no stranger to this subject. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5673

I want to assure the Senate and the people to 300 nautical miles from the coast of Aus- of Australia that the government is committed tralia. to ensuring that there is an effective national As for claims by Mr Beazley and Premier effort in fighting the menace of illicit drugs. Carr that cuts to the AFP budget are under- As the Prime Minister announced yesterday, mining the fight against drugs, let me say he has established a task force to prepare an this: the Attorney-General has advised me that urgent report on a national approach to illicit any cuts to the AFP budget have come from drugs and an agenda for national action. This administration spending. The cut was part of task force is to be chaired by the Secretary to an ongoing budget deficit reduction strategy the Department of the Prime Minister and applied by the federal government. The AFP Cabinet and includes the head of all relevant is managing its expenditure to ensure that it agencies. The task force will look at current maintains its commitment to important oper- efforts to reduce the supply of drugs, includ- ations and activities within projected budget ing domestic law enforcement and border allocations for the current financial year. The control. It will also look at current efforts to AFP has in place a national framework for reduce the demand for illicit drugs and advise priority which ensures that all matters are on the allocation of resources to achieve more properly and appropriately assessed and effective use of Commonwealth funds against prioritised against available resources. This illicit drugs. Its report will form the basis of government is committed to addressing this the government’s strategy to be put before the issue and it will do so. special meeting of the Ministerial Council on Drug Strategy in November. Unemployment From the point of view of the Australian Senator SHERRY—My question is direct- Customs Service, the Customs resources ed to Senator Vanstone, the Minister for specifically devoted to anti-drug efforts have Employment, Education, Training and Youth not been reduced during the time of general Affairs. As you are aware, Minister, the budget expenditure reduction. In the 1996-97 Treasurer, Mr Peter Costello, recently stated: fiscal year, a total of 174 kilograms of heroin We expect over the course of this year, unemploy- was seized. This was double the total of the ment will fall—and I expect that by the end of this previous year’s seizure. Since 1 July this year, financial year, we’ll see it around or a little below Customs has intercepted approximately 81 the 8% mark. kilograms of heroin at the border. Effective Were you consulted by the Treasurer or his anti-drug efforts at the border by Customs are department over this forecast? Is it based on not just a product of resources alone but also data provided by your department? involve the most effective use of intelligence Senator VANSTONE—Senator, it might and the available resources it has. be news to you, but the Bureau of Statistics actually falls within the Treasurer’s portfolio. The reductions in expenditure that have So when I comment monthly on the labour been referred to were part of the force figures, I am actually relying on figures government’s overall budget strategy and that are provided from Mr Costello’s portfolio have not and will not affect the capacity of area. The ABS is where that information is Customs to do its job. I might add that in the placed. Therefore, I imagine the Treasurer 1996 budget, the government provided $26 gets his information both from Treasury and, million towards technology to aid in drug to the extent he wishes, from the Bureau of detection and interception. In 1997, this year’s Statistics. I think you will find that what the budget, funding was provided for an upgrade Treasurer has done is outline the in the Customs fleet, and an acquisition government’s view, with which I have no process for eight new vessels has commenced. disagreement. Since 1 July last year, the Customs coastwatch program has been able to signifi- Senator SHERRY—Madam President, I cantly increase its surveillance capacity. ask a supplementary question. Minister, are Operations are now able to be conducted up you able to overcome your allergy to setting 5674 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 targets and endorse categorically that set by say, ‘It is a good system that rewards students the Treasurer? Do you agree categorically who work hard.’ Why would the shadow with him that unemployment will drop to spokesperson have such faith in the TER as eight per cent by the end of June this year? an index of merit? Perhaps that is not such a Senator VANSTONE—This government mystery. does not have an allergy to setting targets— Mr Latham has to believe in the infallibility not at all. We have said that no government of the TER because that is the basis of ration- should be happy with a target lower than full ing publicly funded places in universities. If employment. That is what we are aiming for. the TER is not accurate to two decimal We cannot tell you exactly when we are places, then the reasoning behind the opposi- going to get there, but we know that we tion to full fee places crumbles. People who should be happy with nothing less. Until a fail to gain a place through the TER but who government gets to the situation where every are just a few decimal points short, and who person who wants a job can get a job, a are willing to pay their way, cannot possibly government should not be satisfied. That is be called, as Labor calls them, ‘the dumb quite the opposite of your notion of an allergy rich’. If the TER is not an infallible measure to setting targets. of merit then the reliance on opposing full fee places falls apart. We have declined to set lower targets that one could just jump for the convenience of I think it is actually Mr Latham who is not politics, as you people did so frequently. We so smart. Medical schools—the most heavily agree with the statement made by the then and carefully rationed of university places— Deputy Prime Minister, now Leader of the have moved beyond the TER. They use inter- Opposition, Mr Beazley, with respect to the views and other specialised testing in the futility of setting those targets. You might be allocation of places to people from groups able to come back and tell me whether Mr from which it is desirable to get doctors. Beazley has changed his view yet again on Anyone who is familiar with the TER something else, because you will understand knows that its supposed two-decimal place that his view was that it was quite inappropri- accuracy is spurious. Many people can be ate to set such targets. (Time expired) systematically disadvantaged. The Mount Druitt students who gained prominence earlier Tertiary Education Ranking this year through some reporting, on which Senator TIERNEY—My question without there was appropriate comment, are very good notice is to the Minister for Employment, examples. They suffered because of the Education, Training and Youth Affairs, preference in their school for vocational Senator Vanstone. The minister would be subjects. aware of criticism within the community of Mr Latham is aware of that disadvantage the practice amongst universities of relying and he is aware that it is apparent in TER solely on a student’s tertiary education rank distributions, and he has a solution. Mr to determine whether the student will be Latham—your education spokesman—has a offered a place at university. What is the basis solution. He says that we should educate the of this criticism? Can the minister outline the parents. He knows that the TER is a problem government’s position on the TER? Has the but he does not want to admit it, so his idea minister read the comments of the shadow is to educate the parents. He said—and you minister for education, Mr Mark Latham, who should listen to this very carefully—‘In public asserts that the TER is a good system that housing estates, where people have become rewards students who work hard? way too welfare reliant, they have the time Senator VANSTONE—That was a truly and the need for those sorts of parent-as- remarkable statement from the shadow educator programs.’ minister. Of all the comments that have been That is what Mr Latham thinks. In other made on the TER recently, I have never heard words, he is saying that kids can be disadvan- anyone defend it so dogmatically as simply to taged for a whole variety of reasons in their Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5675

TER and he has a recommendation on how to accepts that the TER is not an appropriate fix it—educate the parents. He cannot pos- measure of achievement for young Australians sibly hold both positions. He cannot say that leaving school. It simply is not. That is why the TER is an infallible measure of a the New South Wales government is com- student’s merit and at the same time say that pletely overhauling it. some students’ parents need a parent-as- As Senator Tierney rightly reminds me, educator program—although I have spoken to about 70 per cent of school leavers do not go a number of parents who think they might on to university. They require different things benefit from that because of the homework from their schools. That is why there has to they are required to assist with! be more vocational training in schools. That Apart from being patronising and offensive, is why the apprenticeship and traineeship this statement shows that Mr Latham simply systems have to be modernised, and that is does not understand TER scores. The problem why we are looking for more entry-level is that they do not always reflect merit. You training places in industry to cater for stu- do not need to blame parents or schools. The dents who are not going on to university. problem is the concept of a single index of merit, not where the kids come from or who Senator Hill—Madam President, I ask that their parents are. There are other things you further questions be placed on the Notice can do to overcome disadvantage in educa- Paper. tional opportunities, but this does not mean, QUESTION TIME and it will never mean, that a single TER score is an appropriate measure of merit for Senator CRANE (Western Australia)— assessment for university. Madam President, I seek to make a point of Senator TIERNEY—Madam President, I explanation. ask a supplementary question. If Mr Latham The PRESIDENT—I am not quite sure says that the TER is a good system and yet it what point of order you are making. Are you only caters for the 30 per cent that get to seeking to make a personal explanation? university, what about the other 70 per cent? Senator CRANE—No. At the end of my What policies does the government have, both question, you made the comment that my for schools and for vocational educational question would have been better directed to training, that will cater for those who do not Senator Alston in his capacity representing make it to university under this system? the Minister for Workplace Relations and Opposition senators interjecting— Small Business (Mr Reith). If you rule me out The PRESIDENT—Order! Stop the clock, of order, I will accept that, but I would like please. There are far too many interjections to get an explanation because I believe the on my left. It makes it impossible to hear. question I asked was on taxation matters and Senator VANSTONE—I do not know was appropriately addressed to the Assistant whether Senator Carr has gained in height or Treasurer. I ask you for an explanation with is sitting on the edge of his seat. regard to your comments at the end of the question. The PRESIDENT—He is sitting on the edge of his seat. The PRESIDENT—I will have a look at the Hansard and check, but listening to the Senator VANSTONE—I do not know why question and answer it seemed to me that it he does that, rather than in his seat. It makes was related to small business. him feel particularly comfortable. Senator Tierney rightly raises the point that Senator Crane—I am seeking a point of the TER is of particular relevance to students explanation for your benefit. going to university. That highlights why the The PRESIDENT—Order! I shall look at New South Wales government—a Labor the Hansard before I make any further com- government—in direct contrast to the views ment and, if I think it is appropriate, I will let of the federal education shadow minister, you know. 5676 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WITHOUT response that has been given by the Attorney- NOTICE General. X-rated Videos Ministerial Code of Conduct Senator HILL (South Australia—Minister Senator HILL (South Australia—Minister for the Environment)—Yesterday during for the Environment)—Madam President, question time I undertook to provide Senator yesterday Senator Harradine asked me a Faulkner with a copy of the arrangements that question without notice about a press release were entered into between the Prime Minister issued on 8 April on X-rated and R-rated (Mr Howard) and Senator Herron in relation material. In accordance with the undertaking to the minimal practice that he has been I gave, the matter was referred to the Prime allowed to continue. I table the correspond- Minister (Mr Howard) and the Attorney- ence evidencing that arrangement. General (Mr Williams). The Attorney-General has noted that the joint press release referred Jabiluka Uranium Mine to must be viewed in its entirety as not only Senator HILL (South Australia—Minister reflecting the government’s decision but also for the Environment)— Senator Herron has providing information to the community about provided additional information to an answer what the proposed new NVE category is he gave to a question from Senator Reynolds likely to contain. It does not profess to be a during question time yesterday. I seek leave detailed exposition of what is or is not cur- to incorporate the additional information in rently contained in the x-rated category. Hansard. The joint press release sought to communi- Leave granted. cate to the media and to the general public The answer read as follows— the decisions of cabinet on a number of During question time yesterday, Senator Reynolds classification issues. The essential message asked whether I had received a recent report sought to be conveyed by the joint press relating to the proposed Jabiluka uranium mine. release in respect of the proposed new NVE I took Senator Reynolds to be referring to the category was that it would be subject to environmental impact statement provided by tighter guidelines than currently apply to the Senator Hill to Senator Parer on Friday, 22 August. X-rated category. This is the only report dealing specifically with Events have moved on since the press the proposed Jabiluka uranium mine. release was issued. Discussions have taken However, having checked the Hansard, it appears place with state and territory censorship that Senator Reynolds could have been referring to ministers about the creation of the new NVE the Kakadu region social impact study. category and about the tighter guidelines that This study examined the social and cultural will apply to its content. Although there was impact of various developments in the Kakadu region over the last 20 years, including mining, broad support for tighter guidelines, some tourism, conservation and urban development—it ministers expressed concerns about some was not limited to Jabiluka. aspects of the proposal and wish to clarify This report was publicly released on 20 August, and discuss it further. All ministers have and of course. I have been provided with a copy. agreed that there should be further discussion of the issues and the matter will be considered ACT Heroin Trial again at the next censorship ministers meeting Senator HILL (South Australia—Minister in December this year. for the Environment)—Senator Herron has The government renews the offer made by provided additional information to an answer Senator Ellison at the estimates committee he gave to a question from Senator Forshaw hearing last week to provide a briefing for during question time yesterday. I seek leave Senator Harradine on the current position to incorporate the additional information in reached in this matter. There is nothing that Hansard. the Prime Minister wishes to add to the Leave granted. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5677

The answer read as follows— dropped to 63.2 per cent. Importantly, we Further to a question from Senator Forshaw yester- have had, a worsening youth unemployment day, I advise that discussions between the Prime rate which stood at just over 26.4 per cent in Minister’s office and ministers outside the cabinet July last year and is currently at 27.8 per cent. are, according to longstanding convention, not matters for public discussion. Senator Vanstone continually attempts to dodge and weave any real solution to this Employment Placement Schemes issue. Her ministerial colleagues have attempt- Senator SHERRY (Tasmania—Deputy ed to do the same, but Senator Vanstone Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) (3.12 certainly stands out amongst the ministers p.m.)—I move: opposite. That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Employment, Education, Training We have had a long litany of excuses. The and Youth Affairs (Senator Vanstone) to a question argument was put last year that we had to get without notice asked by Senator Childs today, the budget into balance. That in itself, of relating to employment. course, has created some of the problems that Senator Child’s question referred to the most this country is faced with today. That budget important issue facing this country today, that went a long way, Senator Vanstone, to de- is, the issue of unemployment and related to stroying the confidence of the community, that, of course, job insecurity. Senator Childs particularly with respect to small business asked Senator Vanstone for the definition of demand. There has been a lot said about small an employment placement for the purposes of business by this government. But if Senator the success fee for the new private employ- Vanstone and her colleagues had been listen- ment agencies. ing, over the last few months in particular, What we had today was a typical response they would have found that the number one from the minister. Yet again there was eva- concern of business is the issue of consumer sion and an attempt not only to avoid answer- confidence and consumers spending money. ing the question but also to avoid accepting They are concerned about rising unemploy- any responsibility for the jobs crisis in Aus- ment and job insecurity. tralia. Then we had the next excuse, which was Senator Vanstone has consistently attempted the industrial relations system. The industrial to dodge responsibility and to dodge any real relations system needed modernising. It answer to finding real solutions to the chronic needed to be made more flexible so that small unemployment problem which faces this business could employ more people. We have country. The latest attempt by Senator seen no evidence to date that the changes to Vanstone, together with her ministerial col- the industrial relations system have contri- leagues, is another in a long, long list of buted to that. excuses for what is emerging as an increasing unemployment problem. We had the cuts to the employment service area in that budget of last year. We have had We only have to look at the statistics over the magic elixir of work for the dole. The the last year, particularly since last August’s Prime Minister, Mr Howard, went to the budget, to see the worsening unemployment United States and discovered computers. He rates right around Australia. In March 1996, also discovered, at least for two days, the when this government was elected, the unem- argument that we should be lowering wages. ployment rate across the nation was 8.5 per We now have the latest excuse for unemploy- cent, and it has been trending gradually ment, and that is the tax system. The Prime upwards almost continuously ever since to Minister has decided to invent a broad based stand at 8.7 per cent as of July this year. indirect tax, commonly known as a BBIT. One of the other interesting aspects of the That is the latest excuse for this government’s worsening unemployment rate is the participa- failure to address the increasing unemploy- tion rate which, in July last year, stood at just ment levels around this nation and the in- over 63.5 per cent and, in July this year, has creasing insecurity. 5678 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

In Senator Vanstone’s answer today there over nine per cent, and then it went to 10 per was yet more evasion. It is useful to serve cent and then it went to 11 per cent. The that particular answer as yet another example average right over the period was 8½ per of Senator Vanstone failing to address this cent. Senator Sherry, you expect us to wave issue. There is slashing of labour market a magic wand and fix this problem immedi- programs and increasing youth unemploy- ately. We are still trying to cope with your 13 ment. There are problems in regional Austral- years of mismanagement of the economy ia, and there are particular problems associat- when you missed many golden opportunities. ed with the changes to the delivery of em- You took foreign debt from $20 billion up to ployment services—an issue Senator Vanstone $180 billion and created enormous problems failed to address in her response to Senator for our economy. You then say, ‘Why haven’t Child’s question. you people fixed it in 18 months?’ Senator TIERNEY (New South Wales) Senator Campbell—They reckon churning (3.18 p.m.)—The point of the question from people through Working Nation has reduced Senator Sherry initially related to how you it. define people and how many hours they work. He was criticising the 15-hour level. Senator Senator TIERNEY—Thank you, Senator Sherry, under your government, if someone Campbell. I was going to talk about their received one hour’s work, they were suddenly solutions in a minute but, before I finish with defined as ‘employed’ and were taken off the their record, let me turn to the youth unem- unemployment list. When we look at the ployment record, which is absolutely disgrace- record of your government on this matter, we ful. just wonder why you have the hide to get up I remember looking at the figures in 1986 and take note of the answer given during when your government had been in power for question time. You talk about targets. I just four years, and we had 25 per cent youth wonder quite what your targets are. Have a unemployment at that stage. I note that you look at the outcomes. That is an average of did not mention that figure, Senator. When 8½ per cent unemployment during your 13 you left office, your figure was up to 28 per years in government. cent. What a great improvement in 11 years! Senator Sherry—What was it like when You actually went backwards. You did not we left office? solve this problem. You actually made the Senator TIERNEY—Senator Sherry, you problem worse. It was actually a lot worse raise the point, ‘What was it like when we than the figures indicated, because you kept left office?’ hiding people on the unemployment queue. You kept defining people off the queue. We Senator Sherry—It was coming down. have this huge pool of hidden unemployment Senator TIERNEY—Senator Sherry, what on top of the official figure that we had to about the pain that was inflicted on the— deal with. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Senator You talked about targets in what you had Tierney, would you like to address your to say, and I believe your target is five per remarks through the chair, please. Then cent by the turn of the century. Every eco- Senator Sherry would not— nomic commentator that I have read on the Senator TIERNEY—Madam Deputy subject said that, unless you are running the President, Senator Sherry raises an interesting economy absolutely full bore—therefore point about his own government’s record. He sucking in more foreign debt; that is, foreign refers to their last day in office. I think what debt that you helped create—you would have the Australian people remember, Senator no chance of getting anywhere near five per Sherry, is your 13 years in office and the cent. You were not going to make the five per enormous pain they endured under high levels cent because, as Senator Campbell pointed of unemployment. When I came into this out, your solution was really no solution. parliament in 1991, unemployment was a little Working Nation—what a joke! Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5679

Have a look at the outcomes of the so- to get people into real jobs. This is the called Working Nation program. Thirty per achievement—the benchmark—that this cent of the people who undertook your pro- government is aiming for. The government grams actually got a job. Seventy per cent in has the nerve to criticise Working Nation for Working Nation went back onto the unem- under achievement when it has set such a low ployment scrap heap. What a program that bar benchmark for its own achievements. was! It cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Paul Cleary, in the Sydney Morning Herald At least this government is focusing on on Friday, 8 August—Senator Childs referred getting the fundamentals right—something to this article in his question—was absolutely Paul Keating should have done back in the scathing in his condemnation of this program. mid-1980s. You see, when the minister had legislation Have a look at the way the interest rates are before this parliament the bar for a real job still dropping. Have a look at the budget was going to be set at 20 hours. Now the deficit. That is another figure you did not minister has lowered the bar to 15 hours a mention, Senator Sherry. Have a look at what week over five days. In the words of Mr the budget deficit was when you left office Cleary: and compare that with the budget surplus that Even for the most employable unemployed, the we are now moving towards under good Government believes it must lower the hurdle to a financial management. Look at the micro- pathetic level to make the scheme a success. economic reforms that we have instigated in They are not my words—they are the words industrial relations in terms of small business, of Mr Cleary in the Sydney Morning Herald. which is the real job generator. What this They are a condemnation of this approach by government is concerned about is not make- the minister. work programs. This government is concerned Real jobs are defined in the government’s about actual jobs. That is generated by the own documents as 15 hours a week. That is small business sector, and that is generated by what they want. We are not talking about the getting the economic settings right. Senator statistician’s figures—let us get the red her- Sherry, I was absolutely amazed you got up rings off the table. We are talking about the and spoke on this matter, given the record of jobs that this government said it was going to your government. create. These are the jobs that this govern- Senator O’BRIEN (Tasmania) (3.23 ment is going to pay people to arrange. In p.m.)—This government went to the last other words, they are going to get a private election with a program of pathways to real provider and say, ‘We will pay whatever you jobs. They are the terms that have been have contracted to provide. As long as the job consistently used by this government both to is three hours a day over five days a week, condemn the Working Nation program and to and lasts for a minimum period, you will get try to talk up their pretty pathetic efforts in paid. That is all we want.’ this area. But when we look at the matters The mark has changed from the outcome that were the subject of questions today—and proposed by the previous tender. Originally we are looking at, in particular, the minister’s the minister was saying that you would pay employment services request for tender—we the premium for a primary outcome of 20 see that there is a proposal to pay private hours, which would have got the person off providers for establishing a real job for an unemployment benefit. The secondary out- unemployed person, a person who is eligible come at that stage was the proposal of be- for benefit. tween 15 and 19 hours. What is now the A real job? How many hours a week? primary outcome was, then, the secondary Fifteen hours a week over five days. The job outcome. You really do not know what you has to be no fewer than three hours per day. are talking about. That is a real job. This government is going But if you want to talk about waste, let us to spend, in the minister’s terms, $1.7 billion have a look at something that did come up in between May next year and December 1999 the estimates hearings—something that we did 5680 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 ascertain. Under the training for employment mark that you left on youth unemployment in program this government is funding a com- this country. pany it knows nothing about to the tune of Senator Sherry got up and talked about $800 per person per week. The company is to chronic unemployment. Yes, chronic unem- provide hospitality training for jobs that at ployment was built up over 13 years of this stage do not exist, on a ship that at this Labor. You do not turn that around overnight. stage is not in Australian waters, and probably For 13 years of Labor we saw this indelible is not owned by the company in question. The chronic unemployment. It was right that government is providing this funding without Senator Sherry talked about chronic unem- checking the company. This is the record of ployment inherited by this government from this government. This is the record of this Labor. The stain of your mismanagement is minister in relation to Commonwealth money still apparent, and it ought to be thrown back that is being spent under the training for at you and in your face every time. employment program. This government is going to create jobs by throwing money away Senator Sherry talked about the unemploy- possibly, by spending $800 per person per ment trend. He failed to talk about the fact week on a training program. that the unemployment figures we have are a much more honest reflection and picture of This sort of expenditure makes any criti- unemployment. cism of Working Nation, in terms of its levels of expenditure, absolutely irrelevant. This Senator O’Brien interjecting— government has done nothing to create real Senator PATTERSON—You hid unem- jobs. This government’s programs are demon- ployment through the Working Nation pro- strably wasteful. Spending $1.7 billion over gram. We sat and listened to you in silence. a period of 18 months on a program which is But no, Madam Deputy President, they do not able to provide only the minimal sorts of jobs like being told what happened. They hid the that it defines is just not good enough. figures. They churned people through. They Senator PATTERSON (Victoria) (3.28 took them off unemployment benefit and put p.m.)—Labor Party senators have a gall to them in a training scheme for six months. come into the chamber today and talk about And what happened? Seventy per cent or unemployment. They had an abysmal record more of them, a significant proportion of on unemployment, and as far as youth unem- them, were back on the unemployment queue ployment goes it was absolutely abysmal. In again, but this time as short-term unem- 1994-95, in Labor’s last year in office, youth ployed—churned over and over under Work- unemployment was a staggering 32.3 per cent. ing Nation and not getting real jobs. Over 13 years of Labor, Hawke, Keating They did nothing about reform in industrial and Beazley presided over the virtual de- relations; they did nothing about encouraging mise— small business to employ people. Every small business you went to would say, ‘We’re not The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Order! going to employ people because it’s too hard. Would you please use their names correctly. If they do the wrong thing, there is no incen- Senator PATTERSON—I am sorry. Mr tive for us to employ people in small busi- Hawke, Mr Keating and Mr Beazley presided ness.’ They did nothing to reform. In fact, over the virtual demise of the Australian what they are going to do now is to oppose apprenticeship and traineeship system, and we legislation which still affects small business have seen the outcome of that. We have and means that they will not employ. You go young people not having the skills that they and talk to small business people; you go and need to be in the workforce because Labor talk to my father who, at 76, employs people. neglected this area. In 1995 apprenticeship He will not employ them because he finds it and traineeship numbers fell to their lowest too difficult. So small business person after level as a percentage of the workforce in three small business person will not create jobs decades. That was the sort of record, that was because of the industrial relations system you the sort of statistic, that was the indelible left. You will not actually recognise that you Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5681 lost the last election. In fact, when it will get minister referred to ABS statistics. That is through your thick skulls that you lost the last irrelevant to the point; they have not been election, I don’t know. changed. There has been no change between As for Senator Sherry, who went on to say when Labor was in government and the that getting the budget to balance has caused present government in relation to ABS statist- a lot of problems, he did not mention the ics. The point is that the government is problems that giving us $180 million of changing the definition of what will be foreign debt has caused us. He did not men- regarded as a real job in relation to employ- tion the problem created by having to repay ment placements. $10 billion a year on the interest on the debt When the minister actually does comment that you chalked up. What about what that about what will be regarded as a real job, she does to jobs, to the economy, to the impost says something vague such as, ‘Oh, we’re we put on business, and the disincentives for doing assessments on what will be regarded creating jobs? He did not mention that—he as a reasonable standard for someone to be did not mention the legacy of that and he did independent and that is 15 hours.’ She would not mention that that is still the indelible stain not respond to interjections about why we are that has been left from your mismanagement. dropping from 20 hours down to 15. I do not No, he would go on a spending spree as you think she had much understanding of that all did. If you get your hands on the levers point at all. I challenge the government to again, it would be spend, spend, spend. That actually give us details of how they assess is what Labor’s policy is—spend the next whether 15 hours a week of work is enough generation’s money to create the sorts of for somebody to regard themselves, or for the programs that are in fact failed programs. government to regard them, as earning suffi- What we are on about is creating appren- cient income to be independent. I know a lot ticeships, not doing the sorts of things that of workers out there who work 15, 20, 25 you did. You left the apprenticeship scheme hours a week and I know that they are strug- in an appalling state, you left youth unem- gling on the income they have, let alone ployment in an appalling state and you left having their definition dropped down to 15 the budget in an appalling state. You chalked hours a week. up $11 million to $15 million a year. You One of our chronic employment problems would have continued to do that and the IMF is not just unemployment, but chronic under- would have walked in here. But you didn’t employment. This government is hoping to care about that; you were an irresponsible contribute to that further and also hoping to government, and you sit here now complain- avoid some of its obligations in relation to ing about unemployment. The unemployment employment in its election commitments by we now see is a legacy left to Australia by shifting people off unemployment statistically. Labor, and the Australian public know that. That is what this is really about. It is a last- Senator JACINTA COLLINS (Victoria) minute attempt to try to do something which (3.33 p.m.)—I, too, would like to speak to the will shift the statistics but still not provide an motion to take note of the answer given to the answer to unemployment. question asked by Senator Childs. I would While I am on the point of the minister like to go back to the point raised by Senator evading giving the Senate decent answers to Sherry, which was that the Minister for these questions, I would also like in passing Employment, Education, Training and Youth to refer to the answer to my question. The Affairs (Senator Vanstone) in fact evaded minister referred to seasonal work in relation addressing the question. The question was that to our concerns about an increase in the the government was changing the definition number of overseas workers coming in and of an employment placement for the purposes taking jobs from young people in Australia. of paying a success fee to new private em- The minister has no idea whether seasonal ployment agencies from 20 hours to 15 hours workers are taking those jobs—no idea at all. a week. What did the minister say? The Such poor answers highlight the lack of 5682 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 implementation of Howard’s election promise They know the government has no solutions. to make employment the first priority. The They know the record is getting worse. first priority—not tax reform, not anything Yes, unemployment is a chronic problem in else; unemployment was to be the first priori- this country but at some stage this govern- ty. We are now— ment has to stop harking back to the record Senator Campbell—Madam Deputy Presi- of previous governments and take responsi- dent, I take a point of order. I noticed that bility for its own actions now. This govern- when Senator Patterson was referring to ment has been in place for 17 months and former Labor prime ministers, you requested unemployment is getting worse, not better. that she make the proper reference. I would We are not even seeing marginal gains in hope that, in your normal way, you would terms of all of these claims about what was show an even handedness and ask Senator going to improve unemployment; it is getting Collins to refer to Mr Howard as Mr Howard. worse. (Time expired) The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Certainly. Senator CAMPBELL (Western Australia— Senator Collins, if you have not done so, Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer) would you please do so? (3.38 p.m.)—I would like to contribute to this debate. I remind Senator Jacinta Collins that Senator JACINTA COLLINS—Certainly, I came to this place in exactly May 1990. Madam Deputy President. The poor answers When I heard then Senator Button, as Leader displayed today by the minister again high- of the Government in the Senate, and other light that Mr Howard’s election promise that front bench members of the previous Hawke- unemployment be the first priority is not Keating government, blaming the ills of the being honoured by this government. We have nation on Malcolm Fraser and John Howard, an inoperative cabinet working group on I thought that was stretching the realms of unemployment which, while widely acclaimed credibility since the Labor government had by the government when it was established then been in power for seven years. For my some time back, cannot even attract senior sins and others’ sins I had to sit out another ministers to attend its summit and has come six years in opposition. up with no plan. Senator Jacinta Collins—But this is your Meantime, the government continues to run government’s first priority. false races which again was raised in the Senator CAMPBELL—Senator Collins, responses to taking note today by government we have been in power for 17 months. I am members. We had, firstly, the Workplace not making excuses; I am making a small Relations Act, including unfair dismissals and aside. I have been in here for seven years how that was going to solve unemployment. now. Six of those years was sitting over I remember from chairing the hearings in where you are sitting thereabouts. In each one relation to that act that the argument was run of those six years I had ministers in the that it would solve unemployment, but there previous Hawke and Keating governments was no substance to that argument, as we lecturing us— reported. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—Would you The second race being run is: small busi- care to use the proper names, please? ness reforms will provide employment. We have no record from that from any of the Senator CAMPBELL—I was talking about reforms to date, similarly with respect to the their governments—Mr Hawke’s government Workplace Relations Act. Another claim is and Mr Keating’s government, if you like. I that more unfair dismissal changes for small refer to Mr Hawke and Mr Keating far more business will generate employment. Through politely than they refer to each other, I under- estimates we know there is no justification for stand. those claims. There are also claims about To get back to the debate, up to 17 months reducing wages and, finally, the GST. The ago members of your previous ministerial community knows these are not answers. team reminded us continually that all of Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5683

Australians’ woes were caused by Malcolm ment. We are not going to let them forget that Fraser but mostly John Howard when he was because we have to bring good financial Treasurer. Senator Collins, if we do from time management into government. to time over the next few years remind you If you want people to have income security and remind the Australian people that the and job security you do not do it by coming previous governments were not the greatest up with schemes like Working Nation which economic managers this place has ever seen, basically had the political task of churning then I apologise. You can say that we are people through the unemployment statistics playing a bit of politics, but I think in Parlia- just long enough to get you to the last elec- ment House most people would expect that. tion. That was the effect of spending billions One of the reasons people do not have as of dollars on Working Nation. It churned much confidence as we would like them to particularly young people through the employ- have at the moment is the consumers of ment statistics. It did not create real jobs. It Australia had some fairly horrendous experi- did not create jobs in businesses. It did not ences over the last 13 years. Those horren- create jobs in free enterprise. It did not create dous experiences were caused because you sustainable jobs. had incompetent people managing the eco- This government is committed to ensuring nomic levers. Mr Keating, the previous Prime that you have security of employment, but Minister and Treasurer, used to come into the you do not do that by running the national other place and brag about how he had the economy on bankcard. You do not do that by economic levers so firmly in his hands and going across to German banks and Japanese Australia was in very good shape and in very banks and saying, ‘We need another $10 good hands. He had the Reserve Bank in his billion just to pay for the annual services of pocket, he had Treasury in his pocket, and government.’ You do that by ensuring that Finance in his pocket, and it was all under Australia can pay her way. control and she’ll be right. We have had to make economic adjust- But do you know what scared a lot of ments. That will require adjustment amongst Australians? When Mr Keating was Treasurer the households of Australia but the long-term and he would say that ‘it is a beautiful set of benefit is that we will have sustainable eco- numbers’ or ‘this is the budget that brings nomic growth, not a boom-bust roller coaster home the bacon’ and people would see ride a la Paul Keating and Bob Hawke, not interest rates coming down or employment five minutes of sunshine and then a crash but trending down momentarily, they believed long-term decades of growth, sustainable jobs him. They believed that Mr Keating was and employment. (Time expired) getting it right. They would start investing in small businesses and buying homes and Question resolved in the affirmative. paying reasonable interest rates and then CONDOLENCES within a few minutes of Mr Keating coming out and saying that all of a sudden he would Mr John FitzPatrick have to pull the brakes on. Interest rates The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—It is with would go down just below 10 per cent and, deep regret that I inform the Senate of the wham, Mr Keating when he was Mr Hawke’s death on 28 July 1997 of John FitzPatrick, a Treasurer and then Prime Minister would all former member of the House of Representa- of a sudden have to rip the brakes on and tives for the division of Darling, New South interest rates would go zooming from less Wales, from 1969 to 1977 and for the divi- than 10 per cent up to 17 per cent. sion of Riverina, New South Wales, from A lot of people out there remember that— 1977 to 1980. people who had mortgages, who were forced to sell their homes, or lost their businesses, or PETITIONS went bankrupt as a result of the economic The Clerk—Petitions have been lodged for management by the previous Labor govern- presentation as follows: 5684 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Food Labelling by Senator Patterson (from 48 citizens). We, the undersigned citizens and residents of Australia, call on all Senators to support implemen- Food Labelling tation of the following: We the undersigned request the Australian Senate a requirement to label with the production implements the following: process, all foods from genetic engineering A Senate enquiry into the use of genetic engi- technologies or containing their products; neering in the Australian Food Supply, including real public participation in decisions on the ethics of its use. whether to allow commercialisation of foods, That consultations be undertaken with the additives and processing agents produced by general public to ask if we want this technology gene technologies; in our food supply and consent to its use. premarket human trials and strict safety rules on these foods, to assess production processes as That consumers be resourced to attend these well as the end products. consultations. Precedents which support our petition include Any food that is genetically engineered or several examples of foods already labelled with the contains components that are genetically engi- processes of production; irradiated foods (here and neered are required to be labelled, including the internationally); certified organic foods; and many origin of the genes. conventional foods (pasteurised; salt-reduced; free- That meaningful right to know legislation be range; vitamin-enriched; to name only a few). enacted to guarantee public access to toxicology We ask you all to accord a high priority to data. supporting and implementing our petition. by Senator Woodley (from 249 citizens). by Senator Stott Despoja (from 632 citi- zens). Superannuation Repatriation Benefits To the Honourable the President and Members of the Senate in the Parliament assembled. To the Honourable the President and Members of the Senate assembled in Parliament: The petition of the undersigned recognises the importance to Australia’s retirement income policy This petition of certain citizens of Australia, of a stable and secure superannuation system in draws to the attention of the Senate the fact that which people are encouraged, not penalised, for members of the Royal Australian Navy who served taking steps to provide for their retirement and asks in Malaya between 1955 and 1960 are still the only that: Australians, sent overseas on active service, whose service has not been recognised in three important Coalition Senators honour their 1996 election areas: promise, namely that ‘The Coalition is fully 1. R.A.N. casualties are not yet included on the committed to engendering stability, security, Roll of Honour at the Australian War Memorial simplicity and flexibility into the superannuation alongside Army and R.A.A.F. casualties; system’. 2. R.A.N. service has not yet been recognised The Liberal/National Government acknowledge with the visible signs of service to Australia; the that the inclusion of superannuation assets and roll- Returned from Active Service Badge and the Naval over funds in the social security means test is campaign medal; and inequitable, erodes public confidence in the super- 3. R.A.N. service is still not acknowledged as annuation system and penalises those who have eligible service for the Australian Service Pension, attempted to provide for their own retirement. while service by Commonwealth and allied veterans The Government repeal legislation including from 55 other countries is. superannuation assets and roll-over funds in the Members of the Army and R.A.A.F. who served social security means test. during the same period in Malaya had their service by Senator Woodley (from 514 citizens). fully recognised 24 hours after arriving in Malaya. In the 1997 Budget the Government partly Native Title recognised that R.A.N. service by providing the To the Honourable the President and Members of same recognition and benefits for that service. The the Senate in the Parliament assembled. cost will be minuscule, being mainly a transfer of pensions from ‘age’ as paid by the Department of The petition of the undersigned strongly opposes Social Security, to ‘service’ pensions, paid by the any legislation which undermines the co-existence Department of Veterans’ Affairs. of native title with pastoral leases. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5685

Your petitioners ask that the Senate oppose any forestry on existing cleared and degraded lands, legislation which would overturn the recent High using non-toxic methods to protect ecological Court Wik decision. sustainability; by Senator Stott Despoja (from 184 citi- maximise use of readily-available plantation zens). timber for industry needs, using appropriate forestry techniques and progressive minimal- Nursing Homes waste processing methods, such as radial sawing, and wherever possible, reuse and recycle wood To the Honourable the President and Members of and paper products; the Senate in Parliament assembled: The petition of the undersigned nurses and support incentives for nationwide composting, members of the public shows their concerns with soil remineralisation, and planting programs of the Aged Care Bill 1997 and the accompanying trees and annual fibre crops, inter-grown with changes to the funding and regulation of Aged Care appropriate fruit and nut trees and medicinal announced by the Government in the 1996 Budget. plants; In particular regarding the abolition of specific encourage sensitively-managed, environmental funding for the provision of nursing care to resi- education tourism in appropriate forest areas, dents of nursing homes. with full respect for natural ecosystems, Aborigi- Your Petitioners ask that the Senate amend the nal cultural heritage, sacred sites and other sites Aged Care Bill 1997 so as to provide a requirement of significance; and that funding of aged care be in such a form that progressively utilise technological expertise specific funds are allocated to aged care providers and resources transferred from the military for the provision of nursing care to nursing home sector, to help implement these tree planting residents and that aged care providers be allowed solutions; and to motivate the international to spend that money only on the provision of community to follow this example. nursing care to nursing home residents. And your petitioners as in duty bound will ever by Senator Calvert (from 10 citizens). pray. Forest Protection by Senator Allison (from 503 citizens) and To the Honourable the President and Members of Senator Lees (from 503 citizens). the Senate in Parliament assembled. Native Title For permanent protection of old-growth forests and all other areas of high conservation value, and To the Honourable the President and Members of for the implementation of tree plantation strategies. the Senate in the Parliament assembled. This petition from the undersigned respectfully The Petition of the undersigned requests that the points out that: there is an increasing and urgent Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples of this demand from the people, to protect all remaining country are treated justly and fairly. It is in the high conservation value forests which support flora interest of all to build this nation in a spirit of and fauna unique to Australia, thus complying with reconciliation and cooperation with Australians of the United Nations Biodiversity Convention to diverse racial and ethnic backgrounds. which Australia is a signatory. We have a responsi- We call on you to ensure that regional agree- bility to future and present generations, and the ments with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander necessary reasons, knowledge and technology to act peoples are pursued in good faith, so as to deter- now on the following achievable solutions. mine their rights to their land in a spirit of recon- Your petitioners therefore request that the Senate ciliation. legislate to: The co-existence of Native Title and Pastoral Immediately stop all logging and wood- Leases on Crown Land is supported by legal chipping activities in high conservation value principle and historic fact, upheld by the High native forests; Court. The people and Governments of Australia have a moral responsibility to give this fact real ensure intergenerational equity by planning for and just effect. the rights of future generations, and protecting in perpetuity all biologically diverse old-growth We call on members of the Senate to ensure that forests, wilderness, rainforests and critical legislation regarding Native Title habitats of endangered species; (i) complies with internationally recognised facilitate rapid transition of the timber industry principles of non-discrimination; and from harvesting high conservation value native (ii) promotes Reconciliation with Australia’s first forests, to establishing mixed-species farm peoples. 5686 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 by Senator Stott Despoja (from 599 citi- forced into low-paid, backyard operations; zens). and (c) calls on the Government to implement a Timed Local Calls freeze on tariff reductions from the year A Petition to the Honourable the President and 2000 to 2005, consistent with our interna- Members of the Senate in Parliament assembled. tional obligations. This petition of certain residents in the State of Higher Education: Undergraduate Fees Queensland draws to the attention of the Senate the harsh and regressive decision by the Howard and Abstudy Government to allow telecommunications carriers Senator MARGETTS (Western Austral- to charge timed local calls for data communication ia)—At the request of Senator Brown, I give services such as electronic mail, facsimile, the notice that, on the next day of sitting, he will internet and other on-line services. This measure will adversely affect business and individual users move: of the above services, and particularly hamper the That the Senate— operations and growth of small business. (a) supports the student occupation of the Royal Your petitioners call on the Senate to request that Melbourne Institute of Technology’s finance the Howard Government rescind their decision, and and strategic planning department as part of ensure local data communication services are a continuing campaign to prevent the impo- charged on an untimed basis. sition of up-front fee payments for domestic by Senator Hogg (from 2,735 citizens). undergraduate students at Australian univer- sities; and Cooked Chicken Meat (b) calls on the Government to demonstrate its To the Honourable the President and Members of commitment to Aboriginal health and educa- the Senate in the Parliament assembled: tion by withdrawing its planned changes to ABSTUDY. The Petition of the undersigned: (i) believes that importing chicken meat into Superannuation Committee Australia carries a real risk of introducing New- Senator CALVERT (Tasmania)—At the castle disease into the Australian environment; request of Senator Watson, I give notice that, (ii) recognises that this threatens Australia’s on the next day of sitting, he will move: native birds and poultry industry; That the time for the presentation of the report (iii) expresses concern at the negative economic of the Select Committee on Superannuation on the impact that importation of chicken meat will have principles relating to provisions governing the early on the domestic industry and the potential job release of superannuation benefits as contained in losses which will result; and the Small Superannuation Accounts Amendment (iv) calls on the government not to allow the Bill 1997 be extended to 11 September 1997. importation of cooked chicken meat into Australia. by Senator Woodley (from 120 citizens). Tobacco Advertising Petitions received. Senator LEES (South Australia—Deputy Leader of the Australian Democrats)—I give NOTICES OF MOTION notice that, three sitting days from today, I shall move: Textiles, Clothing and Footwear Industries That the Senate— Senator CARR (Victoria)—I give notice (a) notes: that, on the next day of sitting, I shall move: (i) the order of 26 June 1997 that there be laid on the table by the then Minister That the Senate— representing the Minister for Health and (a) views with concern, the prospect of the Family Services (Senator Newman), no Industry Commission’s recommendations on later than midday on 27 June 1997, the the textile, clothing and footwear industries full report of the independent review of being implemented by the Government; section 18 of the Tobacco Advertising (b) believes that, if implemented, the com- Prohibition Act 1992 (also known as the mission’s recommendations would lead to Rassaby report), at least 50 000 Australian jobs being forced (ii) the Minister’s response pursuant to that off-shore with the remaining 50 000 workers order, which was tabled on 27 June 1997 Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5687

and which states that, ‘in declining to Darwin, and that a minimum of 13 per table the report, the Government advises cent of the ABC’s budget for other pro- the Senate that the Minister for Health grams is spent outside Sydney and Mel- and Family Services has directed that the bourne; Government’s response to the report of the Senate Community Affairs References (b) calls on the Minister for Communications Committee, The tobacco industry and the and the Arts (Senator Alston) to request Mr costs of tobacco-related illness, will be Pyne to provide him with the so-called tabled in the Senate during the winter evidence from which he extracted this infor- recess’, and mation, and to table that documentation in the Senate; (iii) that the Government’s response to the committee’s report was not presented (c) is aware that the amount of money now during the winter recess; being spent on the ABC amounts to ap- proximately 7 cents per person per day, (b) again calls on the Government to release the when funds allocated to the orchestras are Rassaby report; and included; and (c) resolves that there be laid on the table, by (d) deplores the Government’s funding cuts to the Minister representing the Minister for the ABC, noting that these cuts will force Health and Family Services (Senator the ABC to further cut back on programs Herron), no later than midday on 3 Septem- and services to all Australians. ber 1997, the Government’s response to the report of the Community Affairs References Higher Education: Fees and Charges Committee entitled, The tobacco industry and the costs of tobacco-related illness. Senator STOTT DESPOJA (South Aus- Finance and Public Administration tralia)—I give notice that, on the next day of Legislation Committee sitting, I shall move: Senator CALVERT (Tasmania)—At the That the Senate— request of Senator Gibson, I give notice that, (a) notes that: on the next day of sitting, he will move: (i) more than 100 students are currently That the time for the presentation of the report occupying the Royal Melbourne Institute of the Finance and Public Administration Legisla- of Technology (RMIT) to protest against tion Committee on the provisions of the Snowy that institution’s decision to introduce up- Hydro Corporatisation Bill 1997 and the Snowy front undergraduate fees, and Hydro Corporatisation (Consequential Amend- (ii) fees are a financial and psychological ments) Bill 1997 be extended to 2 October 1997. disincentive to enter into and pursue Australian Broadcasting Corporation higher education; Senator BOURNE (New South Wales)—I (b) calls on the university to desist from using the threat of withdrawal of student monies, give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I at a rate of $50 000 for every day of the shall move: occupation, against the RMIT Student That the Senate— Union; and (a) notes: (c) supports the right to financial and political (i) the Private Members’ Business in the autonomy of democratically-elected student House of Representatives, on 25 August organisations. 1997, regarding the Charter of the Aus- tralian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC), High Court Judges (ii) that the Member for Sturt (Mr Pyne) Senator MURRAY (Western Australia)—I claimed the evidence is clear that, while give notice that, on Monday, 1 September Australians spend 8 cents per person per 1997, I shall move: day on the ABC, 6 cents of that is going to and being spent in Sydney while in (1) That the Government appoint an independ- fact there is no evidence to that effect ent committee, to be known as the Judicial because it is not the case, and Appointments Committee, to: (iii) that 33 per cent of the news and current (a) draft and publish the qualifications for affairs budget of the ABC is spent in appointment and selection criteria for the Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, Hobart and selection of judges for the High Court; 5688 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

(b) record the selection criteria in a protocol (a) the hours of meeting shall be 2 pm to 5.30 which is to be reviewed periodically by pm; and the Judicial Appointments Committee; (b) the Senate shall adjourn at 5.30 pm without (c) evaluate and assess suitable candidates for the question being put. positions on the High Court bench as positions become available; and ORCA WHALES (d) recommend the selection of future High Motion (by Senator Allison) agreed to: Court judges who are then to be appoint- That the Senate— ed by the Governor-General in Council. (a) notes that: (2) That the committee consist of, at least, the following representatives: (i) of the five orca whales captured off Taiji, Japan on 7 February 1997, two have now (a) the Commonwealth Attorney-General; died in captivity, (b) one representative nominated by the (ii) one of these whales, the youngest male of Australian Bar Association; the group, died on 14 June 1997, having (c) one representative nominated by the Law been separated from his mother and kept Council of Australia; at Shirahama Adventure World, and (d) one academic versed in constitutional (iii) the other was pregnant at the time of law; capture, miscarried 2 months later and refused to eat the dead fish offered by (e) one community representative; and aquarium staff throughout the 4 months in (f) two representatives of the States nomi- captivity; nated by the Council of Australian Gov- (b) acknowledges that orca whales are unlikely ernments. to survive in aquariums; and (3) That the committee have the power to (c) urges the Japanese Government to release appoint a chairperson and deputy chairper- the three remaining orca whales. son. (4) That five members of the committee consti- COMMITTEES tute a quorum of the committee. Public Accounts Committee (5) That in matters of procedure the chairperson or deputy chairperson presiding at the Meeting meeting have a deliberative vote only. Motion (by Senator Calvert, at the request (6) That the committee have leave to report of Senator Gibson) agreed to: from time to time. That the Joint Committee of Public Accounts be (7) That a message be sent to the House of authorised to hold a public meeting during the Representatives acquainting it of this resolu- sitting of the Senate on 28 August 1997, from 9.30 tion and requesting that it concur and take am till 11 am, to take evidence from Mr Max action accordingly. Moore-Wilton for the committee’s inquiry into the Public Service Bill 1997 and a related bill. ORDER OF BUSINESS GIFTS TO THE SENATE Australian Workplace Agreements Motion (by The Deputy President,atthe Motion (by Senator Chris Evans, at the request of The President) agreed to: request of Senator Mackay) agreed to: That the Senate resolves that the following That general business notice of motion No. 641 procedures apply for the declaration by senators of standing in the name of Senator Mackay for today, their receipt of any gift intended by the donor to be proposing an order for the production of docu- a gift to the Senate or the Parliament: ments, by the Minister representing the Minister for (1) (a) Any senator, including any Senate Industrial Relations (Senator Alston), be postponed officer-holder and any senator who is till 28 August. a leader or a member of a parlia- mentary delegation, who in any capaci- Days and Hours of Meeting ty receives any gift which is intended Motion (by Senator Campbell,atthe by the donor to be a gift to the Senate request of Senator Ellison) agreed to: or the Parliament must, as soon as practical, place the gift in the custody That on Tuesday, 26 August 1997: of the Registrar of Senators’ Interests Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5689

and declare receipt of the gift to the propriety in the use, display or loan of Registrar. such gifts. (b) A gift is to be taken as intended to be a (h) Where a senator is uncertain of the nature gift to the Senate or the Parliament of a gift the senator may request advice where: from the committee. (i) the donor expressly states that the gift (i) Where a senator disagrees with the advice is to the Senate or to the Parliament; or of the committee the senator is to report (ii) the identity of the donor, the nature of the disagreement to the Senate, which the occasion, or the intrinsic signifi- may determine the nature of the gift and cance or value of the gift is such that its use, display or loan, if any. it is reasonable to assume that the gift (j) In paragraph (1) a reference to a gift to was intended for the Senate or the the Parliament includes a gift given to a Parliament; or senator for the House of Representatives. (iii) the gift has a value in excess of: (2) This resolution applies to a gift received by (A) $500 when given by an official the spouse, family member or staff member government source, or of a senator on any occasion when the senator is present in his or her capacity as (B) $200 when given by a private person a senator, Senate office-holder or delegation or non-government body on any leader or member, as if the gift had been occasion when the senator is present received by the senator. in his or her capacity as a senator, Senate office-holder or delegation (3) The committee: leader or member. (a) is empowered to consider any matter (c) The Registrar of Senators’ Interests is to placed before it pursuant to this resolu- maintain a public Register of Gifts to the tion, and for the purposes of this resolu- Senate and the Parliament. tion the committee has the powers provid- ed in the resolution of 17 March 1994 (d) The Committee of Senators’ Interests is establishing the committee; and to recommend to the President whether, and how, the gift is to be used or dis- (b) may make, and must as soon as practi- played in Parliament House, including in cable thereafter table, procedural rules to the office of any senator, or used or facilitate the operation of this resolution. displayed on loan elsewhere, including in (4) Any senator who: a museum, library, gallery, court building, (a) knowingly fails to tender and declare a government building, government office gift that is taken to be a gift to the Senate or other place. or the Parliament as required by this (e) Where a gift given to a senator is intend- resolution; or ed to be for the Parliament, the President (b) knowingly fails to return to the Registrar is to consult with the Speaker prior to a gift which it was agreed or determined agreeing to a recommendation of the the senator might use or display; or committee as to its use, display or loan. (c) knowingly provides false or misleading (f) Where the President disagrees with a information to the Registrar or the com- recommendation of the committee, the mittee, President is to report the disagreement to the Senate, which may determine the use, is guilty of a serious contempt of the Senate display or loan of the gift in question. and is to be dealt with by the Senate accord- ingly, but the question whether any senator has (g) In making recommendations the commit- committed such a contempt is to be referred to tee is to take into account the intention of the Privileges Committee for inquiry and the Senate that gifts are to be used, dis- report and may not be considered by any other played or loaned in a way which: committee. (i) reflects proper respect for the intentions of the donor and the dignity of the MATTERS OF URGENCY Senate or the Parliament; Education and Employment (ii) recognises the interest of the public in gifts to the Senate or the Parliament; The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—I inform the and Senate that the President has received the (iii) takes account of practical issues includ- following letter from the Leader of the Oppo- ing space, custody, preservation and sition in the Senate (Senator Faulkner): 5690 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Dear Madam President system would find themselves unemployed. Pursuant to standing order number 75, I give She then stated, ‘Private schools have beaten notice that today I propose to move: unemployment.’ They are her words: ‘Private That in the opinion of the Senate, the following schools have beaten unemployment.’ is a matter of urgency: The failure of the Minister for Employment, In the process, she has angered, worried and Education, Training and Youth Affairs, Senator concerned parents. She has certainly worried Vanstone, to understand and defend public and affected young people right across Aus- schools as revealed by her unprecedented attack tralia who go to those selfsame public on Australia’s public education system in a schools. I think Senator Vanstone, giving her recent speech to the American Chamber of some credit here because perhaps it was Commerce. inadvertent—I hope it was inadvertent—was Yours sincerely saying to employers that private school John Faulkner graduates are better than those from public Is the proposal supported? schools. That was the thrust of what Senator More than the number of senators required Vanstone was saying. by the Standing Orders having risen in their Senator Vanstone has insulted those who places— work in the public school system. She has The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—I understand insulted the teachers who work in the public that informal arrangements have been made schools, and she has managed to do that to to allocate specific times to each of the the point where the Secondary School Princi- speakers in today’s debate. With the concur- pals Association has threatened to boycott rence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to government youth programs which require the set the clock accordingly. cooperation of schools. The national president Senator FAULKNER (New South Wales— of that association, Mr Duncan Stalker, stated Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) (3.54 point-blank on ABC Radio: p.m.)—I move: It’s Senator Vanstone who’s grossly distorted the That in the opinion of the Senate, the following statistics. is a matter of urgency: The failure of the Minister for Employment, I think that Senator Vanstone has forgotten Education, Training and Youth Affairs, Senator that she is the minister in government charged Vanstone, to understand and defend public with the responsibility for public school schools as revealed by her unprecedented attack funding. She is the minister responsible for on Australia’s public education system in a recent speech to the American Chamber of protecting our schools. She is the minister Commerce. who is responsible for the quality of public Senator Vanstone, as Australia’s education schools. Instead of offering constructive minister who is responsible for the public solutions about progressing public education school system in this country, has betrayed in this country in a positive way—public every student in the system. She has betrayed education which she is responsible for—she every teacher in the system. She has betrayed has made carping, negative, destructive every parent who is dependent on the system. comments and she has washed her hands of She has betrayed every product of that school the responsibility for these schools. system. We know that there are lies, damn Even after the minister for education, lies and statistics but, after all and after that, Senator Vanstone, blurted out this dubious, there is Senator Vanstone. statistical adventure and was roundly criti- Senator Vanstone, using a bodgie spin on cised by parents, teachers, commentators and certain ABS statistics, while speaking to, of editorial writers about a fortnight ago—she all people, the American Chamber of Com- copped an absolute lacing—she repeated her merce, concluded that private schools were a statistical spin on Wednesday on the A.M. one-way ticket to work, whereas 14 per cent radio program. It may be a source of astonish- of male students graduating in the public ment to Senator Vanstone, but private schools Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5691 do not create the jobs necessary to beat $270 million from schools funding through unemployment. enrolment benchmark adjustments, with a real I was pleased to see an editorial in the cut to Commonwealth secondary education of Courier-Mail on 14 August because I think it 7.8 per cent. Of course, the coalition is said it all. The headline was very instructive. financing the private school sector at the The headline of the editorial in the Courier- expense of government schools. What we say Mail was ‘Schools can’t make jobs, Senator’. is that this is simply just not a fair policy. But, of course, in that madcap diatribe from These are the new found circumstances in Senator Vanstone, she did not mention the which, under Mr Howard, public schools have location advantage of most private schools. got to operate. Senator Vanstone keeps on She did not mention the fact that around 70 maintaining that the public school system is per cent of students attend public schools in not delivering. this country. Last week, Senator Vanstone added insult She did not mention the fact that private to injury by stating that the statistical quirk schools can pick and choose their students, could be because of the backgrounds of the while public schools—even in the face of this kids that attend public schools. She said that reprehensible government’s policies of fund- she made the statement to focus on the fact ing cuts—strive to provide a high quality that schools had to prepare children for life. standard of education for kids who come from all backgrounds. The public school system in There is one problem background that this country takes all comers and it strives for Senator Vanstone did not bother to mention— excellence. It does not deserve the put-down, that is, the government’s own problem back- smear and libel of this minister for education. ground, which is its lack of attention and Mr Howard, the Prime Minister, in what I focus on solving the youth unemployment thought was a rather deluded moment, tried problem. Since Mr Howard’s government was to defend Senator Vanstone. It was a very elected, youth unemployment has gone up. lukewarm defence, I might say. He said on 13 However much we have huff and puff from August that he was a product of the public Senator Vanstone about jobless statistics prior school system. Let me quote what he said. He to the 1996 election, the facts are that youth said: unemployment was dropping under Labor and youth unemployment is rising under the . . . I won’t have the public education system run down. coalition government. I think the government has some responsibility for preparing the That is what Mr Howard said. Let me interpo- economic circumstances to create jobs for late here. What was he talking about? He school leavers in this country, and it has not said: done it and it is not doing it. . . . those sort of comparisons— They were Mr Howard’s words. What he was Senator Vanstone’s arrogant disdain for the talking about were the bodgie statistical public school sector is highlighted by the comparisons that were offered up by his inaction over the influx of extra students into education minister. He said: grades 11 and 12 next January because of changes to the youth unemployment payment . . . those sort of comparisons don’t make proper regime—that is, the common youth allow- allowance for some of the circumstances in which government schools have got to operate. ance. In a Senate estimates committee last week, she was given the rounds of the kit- They are Mr Howard’s words, as he was chen. She admitted that she had not given trying to repair just some of the damage that much thought at all to the requirements of the his incompetent Minister for Employment, 27,000 grades 11 and 12 school children her Education, Training and Youth Affairs caused. department predicts will remain at school. In 18 months of ideologically, hide-bound Parents and students who might be affected government, Mr Howard has made it tougher by this particular measure from July next year for those government schools by slashing will make the decision about whether the 5692 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 students should remain at school this coming programs. In question time yesterday the January. That is only five months away. Minister for Schools, Vocational Education Senator Vanstone had not carried out a state and Training, Dr Kemp, brushed aside our by state breakdown as to where the greatest inquiries on these issues. From the tenor of educational need would be and where these Senator Vanstone’s responses to Senate young Australians might need extra assist- estimates and in the Senate chamber, the ance—with further attention to literacy, suggestions from her department have been numeracy, vocational counselling, job place- utterly ignored. ment and the like. We hear that many of these Instead of getting on with the job of solving young people do not want to be in schools the mounting problems in state schools that because, as senators know, they are uncom- have been caused by Senator Vanstone, she fortable in a teaching situation. Some of them spends valuable ministerial time in bagging do not have the skills to fit the requirements the system which she is in charge of, bagging for grades 11 and 12. Many are young people the system for which she has responsibility who will need special help and, if they are and calling for the system to perform better, not catered for properly, they are possibly while she cuts back on funding, while she likely to disrupt classrooms. chops resources and, from January next year, How much extra will it cost? Of course, adds 27,000 more young people, who may not Senator Vanstone does not know. What be suited to it, to grade 11 and 12 education. programs will be put in place? Senator Single-handedly, she has insulted the higher Vanstone has not thought about it. She has education system. We called previously for not got a clue. What we in opposition say is the Prime Minister to get rid of this incompe- that this attitude from Senator Vanstone and tent minister, to replace her with someone her junior minister is one of almost criminal else, and our request for action to the Prime neglect. Minister still stands. She is responsible for We know the department has thought about single-handed alienation of the public school the problem, because of a cabinet submission sector in 1997 through her inept handling of that has been obtained by the opposition. her portfolio. It increases the urgency on Mr Several measures costing up to $140 million Howard to sack her now. were supposed to be presented by the Minister Senator VANSTONE (South Australia— for Schools, Vocational Education and Train- Minister for Employment, Education, Training ing, Minister Kemp, and Minister Vanstone in and Youth Affairs) (4.09 p.m.)—I’m sorry, that flaky exercise which was the Mr Acting Deputy President, I was just underattended cabinet meeting held on 5 attending to my phone. August, when everyone was either on holi- Senator Faulkner—That would be right. days or off crook. You wouldn’t be attending to your duties. Senator Carr—Or couldn’t be bothered. Senator VANSTONE—Thank you, Sena- Senator FAULKNER—Or could not be tor, for that interjection. It is helpful if people bothered going. But the department recom- place their phone back on the hook when they mended the expansion of the jobs pathway have concluded speaking. program; extra vocational training programs; I can only conclude that Senator Faulkner the introduction of the students’ intervention has not in fact looked at the whole speech in program based on Labor’s students at risk relation to his comments. He presents the program, which was previously abolished by speech as one attacking the government Senator Vanstone; and an expansion of the school system. He knows full well that this student traineeship foundation, which was a government is absolutely committed to choice 1994 Labor initiative. in schools, to a strong and vibrant school Minister Vanstone and Minister Kemp, system and, equally, to a strong and vibrant fighting with each other of course all the non-government school system—and, for the time, have been silent on these proposed those parents that are able to have a choice, Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5693 to have that choice unhindered by government want to do that, vocational training is very regulation. important to equip them for the choice in life He says that the import of the speech that that they want to make. I made a couple of weeks ago was, I think in I went on to highlight that we are working his terminology, ‘to bag government schools’. with the states in respect of this matter. I Apparently, this is how one does it. One does pointed out that under the arrangements of the it by saying: Victorian minister for training, Phil That is not to say that some government schools Honeywood, 8,000 young Australians are are not already achieving excellent results. studying vocational subjects at school which Then you might pick one and say: count towards their final years and an appren- Salisbury High School here in Adelaide— ticeship or a traineeship. where the speech was made— I went on from that to indicate that the vocational training in schools need not be a is one such school. I understand that they have an lock-off for students and that, as I understand employment rate of something like 98 per cent for their students. it, 24 per cent of students undertaking voca- tional subjects at school in Victoria last year Igoon: have continued on to university. I pointed out This can only be described as excellent. that that shows that vocational education need Apparently, picking out a government school, not block students out. That demonstrates the nominating the record that they have in efforts of the Minister for Schools, Vocational providing what their students need, pointing Education and Training to put vocational out that they have a 98 per cent achievement training back into schools, particularly rate and describing it as excellent is somehow government schools. engaging in a process of bagging government I went on to mention Minister Colin Barnett schools. in Western Australia, who has also recognised I invite anybody who wants to make a the need for schools to have closer links with decision as to this government’s attitude to industry to cater for the needs of its students; read the whole speech. I heard Senator and that if you have more students who want Faulkner say, ‘Lies, damn lies and statistics’. to go into the work force, if a higher propor- I could equally have said, ‘Whole speeches tion of your students want to do that, then and simple excerpts taken from’, and could obviously you have to cater for them. Mr have asked him to go back and have a good Barnett recognises that in Western Australia look. and is doing an excellent job of highlighting I point out the words: ‘This can only be the importance of school to work transition described as excellent’. I was picking out a with the development of multipurpose cam- government school—not picking out a par- puses. These campuses bring together schools, ticular private school—as the example I training providers and nearby businesses—in wanted to use of a school that could provide other words, schools providing what students everything that its students needed. If that is want. bagging government schools, I am a loss for After about two weeks of coverage on this words. speech I am beginning to wonder if, irrespec- But I went on and pointed that the need to tive of what is said in this, somebody is going put vocational education back into schools is to try to say that this government is anti very important. Earlier in the speech, I had government schools. That is not the case. I highlighted the changing nature of the young have repeated that time and time again. labour force. It is a very diminished labour Minister Kemp has repeated it time and time force, because young Australians are less and again and the Prime Minister (Mr Howard) less choosing to leave school without any has repeated it time and time again. additional training to look for the ever de- The opposition can keep dragging this cat creasing number of unskilled jobs. But that out of the bag, hoping to have a further media only highlights that, for those students who beat-up of this issue— 5694 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Senator Faulkner—Have you been reading example of excellent provision of what any of the editorials? You got a colossal students need, some people still try to charac- pasting, and you deserved it. terise both me and this government as being Senator VANSTONE—Thank you, Sena- opposed to government schools. tor. You have had your opportunity. The So I will take the opportunity in the few reasoning behind the speech, the purposes of minutes remaining to me to do what senators the speech were to emphasise the govern- opposite should be doing if they are genuinely ment’s clear intention to support both govern- in support of government schools rather than ment and private schools. simply trying to distort speeches for political As I have said, the full-time youth labour purposes. They should be quoting examples market is now less than half what it was in of where government schools are doing so the 1980s. Social and economic changes mean very well. There are plenty of examples of that the jobs that once were there for young government schools which are doing very people as entry points no longer exist. Even well. For example, I turn to Upwey High when the labour market as a whole picks up, School in Victoria. I am advised that all but the kinds of jobs that did exist will not return; three of last year’s 138 year 12 school leavers they will be different sorts of jobs. The are now employed or have gone on to further challenge now is to continue the increased education. That bears repeating: at Upwey emphasis on vocation and education in High School in Victoria, all but three of last schools, and to establish links between year’s 138 year 12 school leavers are now schools and employers. I know that in schools employed or have gone on to further educa- where a high proportion of students is under- tion. Upwey High School is a non-selective taking vocational education, current methods neighbourhood school in an outer suburb of of university entrance selection can often Melbourne. present barriers to those particular students. Those results, like those at Salisbury High, This is an appropriate time to raise this point. the other government school I referred to, are I have allocated $1 million to address this outstanding. They reflect very well on the issue. leadership of the school, the staff and the I believe that university assessment based community. Bradfield College in New South on a single TER score is unfairly disadvantag- Wales has had similar results. It opens six ing some students. It is very important that, days a week, and builds on a unique partner- when students make their choices in senior ship between TAFE and school programs. secondary school, they keep their options Students can get TAFE qualifications, get the open. They need to be able to choose voca- benefit of industry training and complete tional subjects without feeling that they are secondary school at the same time. I have closing off the opportunity to go to university. already covered the operations of Salisbury I also highlighted the importance of establish- High School. These are very exciting develop- ing links between schools and employers so ments in the government school system. that students can get a feel for what employ- Rather than simply look at individual ers are looking for and employers can get to schools, I will look at some international know young people and tap their talents. benchmarking. At the third international As I have indicated, in Adelaide—my own mathematics study Australia did very well. In state—I pointed to the example of Salisbury science, out of 24 countries, only Korea was High. I used that as the pinnacle example of ranked ahead of Australia. In mathematics, what a school can do. Despite picking a only four countries were ranked ahead of government school as the best example Australia. That would not be possible if we around to show what can be done to cater for did not have a strong excellent government students, despite quoting its record of 98 per school system. It is a vital part of our national cent, despite pointing out that that is an infrastructure, and our commitment to is excellent result and despite having time and unequivocal. If senators opposite want to time again used a government school as an protect, enhance and promote government Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5695 schools, why don’t they come in here and gave the message that schools play a critical share examples with us as we share examples role in preparing young people for life. The with them of just how good government minister said: schools can be? They are not TER factories preparing some for Senator ALLISON (Victoria) (4.19 p.m.)— universities and giving less attention to others. The issue here today is the failure of the Minister for Employment, Education, Training Today we have heard quite a lot about the and Youth Affairs (Senator Vanstone) to problems with TER scores and their irrel- understand and to defend public schools. evance. As an aside, I think we all wait with Whilst there might have been a bit of a some trepidation for what the announcement turnaround this afternoon, I think what we will be on how TER scores will be replaced. have to do today is ask ourselves what is We also know that not all students go to going on when the most vehement attacks on university, and that the overall percentage of our government education system are being students from private schools going on to delivered by the government itself. We should university is higher in private schools than it ask ourselves why it is that our two education is in government schools. Nobody would be ministers are capable of such muddled think- surprised by that information. ing on almost all issues related to education. Most people understand the close relation- Senator Patterson—Have you read the ship between income levels and both retention whole speech? rates and university entry. Time and time Senator ALLISON—I would encourage— again, studies have shown this. This is the reason why we have a publicly funded educa- Senator Patterson—Yes or no? No is the tion system in this country. I would like to answer. remind the minister and honourable senators Senator ALLISON—I respond to Senator of that. The handful of government schools Patterson’s repeated interjections by saying I whose intake is selective on the basis of have, indeed, read the whole speech. I intend results, for instance, also show that high to quote from quite a bit of it, so please bear correlation between ability, family background with me. Senator Vanstone encourages us all of tertiary education and success at university to read the speech, and I do as well. Mind entry. We also know that the more prestigious you, my own view is that it could well have private schools with the highest TER scores been used as an exercise in clear thinking for actively encourage those students who are year 8 or year 9. I am quite sure that most of unlikely to get entry into university from even those students would do better at constructing participating in those final years in the first logical arguments. place. I will get back to the question of the assault I would have thought that the minister’s on schools. We are, I think, accustomed in remarks about entry should have been more this country to state governments attacking particularly directed at private schools. I teacher unions—it is usually teacher unions. would have thought that the reason the But I do not think I can recall any time in government this year gave so generously—I Australia’s history when government think it was $1,730 per student—for vocation- schools—and I emphasise that it is govern- al education in private schools was that it was ment schools we are talking about here—have private schools which had to be encouraged been blamed for everything from unemploy- to address the question of vocational educa- ment to withholding information from parents, tion. That is what the minister said at the failing to be competitive and preparing stu- time. This windfall—which, of course, we dents for university or not preparing students found out does not have to be accounted for for university, as the case may be on occa- in the same way as it does in government sion. schools—was, according to her, given as an The minister’s speech to the American incentive to private schools to broaden their Australian Chamber of Commerce this month current focus on university entrance. There 5696 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 was no mention of that in her address to the Government schools in every state in this chamber. What she did say was: country are getting fewer resources, less . . . putting vocational education back into schools choice in curriculum and, as the recent Senate gives students work related skills. It is something education committee found, they are having that my portfolio is encouraging. to rely more and more on fees and sponsor- ship to pay for the most basic education Senator Patterson will note that I am again facilities. We pointed out that the government quoting from the speech. Minister, I think the was allowing its ideology of privilege over senator and our government schools would equity, of private over public, to threaten the like to know just how you are encouraging system of education in this country, and we that vocational education. The minister’s logic stand by that. on unemployment is, however, somewhat more interesting. She says: If this notion of education were some kind of minor initiative of the previous govern- For boys who completed year 12 in 1995, twice as many boys from government schools chose to enter ment, perhaps we could understand Senator the workforce than boys from non-government Vanstone and Dr Kemp’s eagerness to demol- schools. However, of more interest is that 35% of ish that system before our very eyes. But it is boys from government schools entering the not some minor initiative. It is not some workforce, that is, leaving school to look for work, bright idea which did not work. I would go so couldn’t get a job. far as to say that Australians believe that She goes on to triumphantly announce that education is the most important public service this means that 14 per cent of all boys finish- that the government has responsibility for. ing at a government school were unemployed. You would expect a government that is there I have to say that there are many parts of to act in the best interests of all Australians Australia where 14 per cent unemployment to support and defend and enhance the system levels for young people would be very wel- of education which at the present time serves come indeed. In the Fairfield-Liverpool area 70 per cent of Australian families. The Demo- in New South Wales, the unemployment rate crats would be very happy to see the govern- for boys aged 15 to 24 is 24.1 per cent. In ment identify any deficiencies in education Geelong in my home state, it is 20.8 per cent. and to begin to remedy those. But is that what In the west Adelaide region, the figure is 21.8 we are seeing? I do not think so. per cent. I want to touch quickly on the question of The real point that the minister wants to literacy. Senator Vanstone said in her speech make is the fact that non-government schools that ‘the lack of literacy and numeracy skills do so much better. Only two per cent of boys among our people is of particular concern,’ from non-government schools are unem- and she links this to the question of unem- ployed. We do not know quite where that ployment yet again. This is a favourite subject figure comes from. But even accepting that it of Dr Kemp’s as well. The only response to is an ABS estimate and that it is accurate, this high level of concern is to reduce funding what exactly lies behind this expose? for literacy by nine per cent in real terms from previous budgets. In November last year when the govern- ment’s states grants bill opened the way for The other part of the government’s strategy the expansion of the private school system, so far is to test children endlessly and to paid for by cuts to the state system, we publish those results. I think the idea is that pointed out that this represented a very students and teachers will pull themselves up serious lack of commitment to public educa- by their bootstraps, driven by competition— tion. We also pointed out that the gov- presumably from other schools. This is some- ernment’s attacks on government schools were thing of a departure from the previous line, part of a very obvious campaign to encourage which was that our curriculum was too all those parents who could possibly afford to crowded—any excuse it seems. do so to take their children from state schools Senator Vanstone and Dr Kemp lurch from and put them into private schools. one ill-informed statement to the next on this Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5697 question of literacy. In many ways, this will ensure that every child commencing reminds me of the intemperate and ignorant school in 1998 will achieve minimum accept- outpourings of the member for Oxley (Ms able literacy and numeracy standards— Hanson). Fear is a very powerful motivator. Senator Carr—Why don’t you fund it Whether you are frightening people by telling then? them that we are going to be swamped by Asians or whether you are doing so by saying Senator COONAN—and that student that children in government schools are 10 performance will be monitored against nation- times more likely to be unemployed—(Time al benchmarks, Senator Carr. expired) Senator Carr—Where’s the money? Senator COONAN (New South Wales) Senator COONAN—A major policy (4.29 p.m.)—Mr Acting Deputy President, I initiative of this government is to provide all have read Senator Vanstone’s speech, and I young people with strong foundation literacy must say that the conclusion I have come to skills. The Commonwealth Minister for is that the urgency motion is fundamentally Schools, Vocational Education and Training, misconceived. Senator Allison seems to be Dr Kemp, has worked collaboratively with confusing destination rates with the unem- state and territory ministers for education to ployment rate, whereas the speech of the put in place a comprehensive national plan to Minister for Employment, Education, Training improve literacy and numeracy skills for all and Youth Affairs, Senator Vanstone, ad- young Australians. dressed the importance of making both The Commonwealth makes a significant government and non-government schools financial contribution to schools of more than more relevant to cater for the needs of all $3 billion a year—specifically, $153 million students. That is the fundamental message of a year through the literacy program. The the speech. To try to draw any other message literacy grants to schools will provide $579 from the speech is not only mischievous; it is million over 1997-2000 to be paid to govern- simply disproved by the facts. ment and non-government schools and educa- This government is totally committed to the tion authorities who are able to use funds in excellent government school system we have appropriate ways to achieve the broad objec- in Australia. I would like to take this oppor- tives of the program. tunity to put on the record some of the initia- The government takes literacy of our young tives and achievements of the government people seriously. Last year it undertook the school system that this government and the first national survey for 16 years of the minister support. literacy achievements of Australian school Firstly, referring to resources for schools, children. The results of the survey are shortly the federal government has provided a sound to be released and will provide for the very basis for supporting schools to meet these first time a national picture of literacy challenges. The States Grants (Primary and achievement which will clearly show where Secondary Education Assistance) Act passed efforts need to be directed if we are to last year guarantees funding for schools for achieve the national goal for literacy. the next four years to the tune of more than The federal government is providing a $14 billion over the period 1997-2000. The package of funding measures to promote Commonwealth budget papers for 1996-97 effective and reliable pathways for students show that funding for schools is estimated to from schooling to employment—surely one of increase by an average of just over four per the most important initiatives of this govern- cent a year. ment. Funds are to be used to support pro- The government’s funding priorities reflect grams for school students which combine the importance we place on both literacy and study towards a senior secondary certificate numeracy. State and territory education with nationally recognised, accredited voca- ministers agreed in March this year to the tional education and training. The government national literacy and numeracy plan which is committed to reforms that ensure that 5698 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 school leavers are better prepared for continu- to make the transition from school to work to ing training and further education, or for help young people gain access to an employ- entering the work force, whatever they are ment broker in their area. capable of doing. The Commonwealth is not favouring either At the March meeting the Commonwealth school sector; the government’s policy is sought the support of state education ministers about parents being able to choose the school for a commitment to re-examine the roles of that best suits their children, and providing schools, both government and non-govern- optimum opportunities for all children in the ment, to achieve the goal that all students education system. All these initiatives confirm should find schooling relevant and valuable the Commonwealth’s commitment to ensure and that schooling leads to further education, quality education for all children, whether in training or full and productive employment. the government or non-government sector. This would include removing barriers for The government is on track with its agenda schools to become employment service for schooling that will meet the demands of providers, providing incentives for all schools parents and the broader community for the to develop strategic alliances with local best quality education that will prepare our employment service providers. Each year for students for an exciting and satisfying future. four calendar years $20 million will be pro- (Time expired) vided to state training authorities for alloca- tion to school authorities. Senator CARR (Victoria) (4.36 p.m)—This is an urgency motion before the Senate which Senator O’Chee—Eighty million all up. calls upon the Senate to acknowledge: Senator COONAN—Funds will be avail- The failure of the Minister for Employment, able for the development and delivery of Education, Training and Youth Affairs, Senator programs which contribute to the expansion Vanstone, to understand and defend public schools of vocational education in schools measured as revealed by her unprecedented attack on against set benchmarks. Priorities include the Australia’s public education system in a recent speech to the American Australian Chamber of development of school-based apprenticeships Commerce. and traineeship arrangements, support for innovative activities and the consolidation of At this point I remind the Senate of what it projects which have shown initial success. was that the minister said. She said: In total, the ABS estimates that of school leavers Senator Carr—With no money. at the end of year 12 who end up being unem- Senator COONAN—Senator Carr, you ployed the proportion from government schools is have just heard that there is $80 million in ten times greater than the proportion from non- total provided for these programs. Don’t be so government schools. silly. She went on to say: Funds have been allocated to government The bottom line is that for school leavers, private and non-government school systems to be schools have beaten unemployment. used primarily to support activities at the What nonsense! What an appalling, extraordi- school level. Schools, or clusters of schools, nary attack upon the public education system! will access funding through their relevant What is so appalling about that is that it in education authority or school system. fact articulates the private views of this The government is providing $23 million government. For the first time we have seen over four financial years to facilitate the it out in the open. implementation of vocational education and It is not just the first time in the life of this training in schools, including supporting government; this is the first time this century greater participation of industry, vocational that we have seen any government make a and educational training personnel in the public declaration of the private prejudices of delivery of these courses. I could go on and the Tory party in this country. For the first on with initiatives such as the jobs pathway time, we have seen this notion that the program which was introduced in September government does not have a moral obligation Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5699 to ensure that there is a universal public remarks ‘not only offensive but extremely education service of the highest quality shallow’. We have seen Judith Hancock, the available to all Australians. This viewpoint is Chairwoman of the Association of Heads of thoroughly deplorable. It implies that every- Independent Schools of Australia, describe thing which is privately owned is good and Senator Vanstone’s comments as ‘unfortunate that which is publicly owned is bad. We have and poorly advised’. Duncan Stalker, the a picture of this Tory government which they National President of the Australian Secon- actively seek reassurance for on a constant dary Principals Association, has rejected basis. This is a backward-looking government Senator Vanstone’s comments as ‘statistically which seeks to gather information to support inaccurate and absolute nonsense’. He went such an outdated notion, to support this on to say: spurious claim. I am sick and tired of the school system which is What they seek to do is to provide data no admired throughout the world being blamed by the matter how spurious that data is. The minister Government for their own lack of planning and is putting the proposition, through the Ameri- mismanagement. can Chamber of Commerce, that, no matter what damage is done to the reputations of the Parents and citizens associations right around public institutions of this country, it does not the country have expressed outrage. The New matter, so long as it advances the narrow South Wales Parents and Citizens Federation political agenda that this minister is seeking has said: to promote. Senator Vanstone clearly does not believe that she The minister has sought to attack the represents the 70% of Australian children who seek overwhelming majority of the constituents their education in government school systems and she is prepared to compromise their life opportuni- that she should be representing; that is, the ties in the pursuit of her clear desire to advantage overwhelming majority of Australians who the private sector. actually participate in the public education institutions of this country. In fact, what we The Minister of Education in New South have from this minister is ignorance and Wales has plainly pointed out the obvious fact contempt. She has relied upon unpublished that this is the most savage attack upon one and qualified ABS data, advice which her of the nation’s great institutions and systems own department has told her is not up to of schooling. He stated that she has ‘under- scratch, which she should not use in the way mined community confidence in the system of she has. Try as she might today to backtrack schooling that the vast majority of Australians from her deplorable attitudes, we see her attend’. Dick Shearman of the Independent prejudice which is clearly against public Education Union has made the point that: education. We see before us a minister who is exposed as being ignorant and offensive. Children from privileged backgrounds who go to elite private schools live in areas of low unemploy- The government, in which this minister is ment . . . Children in Catholic schools may have purporting to represent the interests of educa- equal problems finding work—depending on where tion in this country, is relying on the time they live. You can’t say it’s because there is honoured defence that the minister has been something wrong with the education. misrepresented, and she has done that again That is quite clearly what the minister has and again here. She has to come in here to sought to imply in this speech. Senator apologise on a regular basis. How long before Vanstone conveniently fails to address the we see yet another apology about her offen- fundamental issue of the relationship between sive remarks, which we all know have been social class, social privilege and social disad- widely and roundly condemned? vantage. Those are the fundamental principles They have been condemned by Liberal which she has failed to address. She seeks to politicians themselves. I quote the ACT rely on the rhetoric of choice. She seeks to Liberal MLA, Louise Littlewood who has imply, somehow or another, that there should written that she found Senator Vanstone’s be equality, while she promotes inequality. 5700 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

I am somewhat reminded, whenever I look For a generation, perhaps throughout this at Senator Vanstone and her junior minister, century, we have heard all governments Dr Kemp, of George Orwell who brought to express this view: us the whole notion of newspeak. We have Commonwealth Government financial support for from this minister the concept of doublethink. schooling has so far been about providing oppor- The minister seeks to hold two contradictory tunities for all young Australians which ensure that ideas simultaneously. She tries to present to they have life chances not fettered by the circum- us the notion that she accepts both of them. stances of their birth. What you see is a minister who has quite We are seeing this government moving away clearly misunderstood the very principles on from those fundamental principles of a demo- which she is supposed to govern; that is, a cratic society, moving away from those commitment to defend public education and fundamental principles of a pluralist society. to defend the important role played by gov- It is moving to a new set of values, which say ernment in promoting public education and that choice should be exercised no matter the critical role it plays in terms of our soci- what the cost and no matter what the conse- ety as a whole. quences. What it is moving away from is the normal principles of a universally high quality The minister calls upon statistics which education system that values access and ACER has clearly demonstrated have failed equity and inclusiveness. to take into account three fundamental princi- ples, the first of which is that a smaller What you have is, in fact, an understanding proportion of students from non-government by this government that for them choice schools seek employment after year 12, the means that, if you have the money, you get rest going directly into further education. The what you want. If you have not, you do second point which she has failed to acknow- without. What you have, I might suggest to ledge is that student cohorts in government you, is as a supporter of parent choice once and non-government school systems differ in stated. This was published in the Review of the ways in which they influence employment the New Schools Policy in April last year by outcomes; that is, in terms of their socioeco- McKinnon. The supporter made this point: nomic status. The third point which she fails . . . respect for parents’ rights in education cannot, to acknowledge is that there are marked reg- however, be pursued without regard for the claims ional variations in unemployment rates in of other values . . . The state may set conditions for the conduct of formal education not only to protect terms of government and non-government the individual rights of children, but to ensure the schools. effective transmission of the knowledge and skills on which the common political, economic and This is a deplorable attitude which is being cultural life of the whole society depends... expressed by this government in its approach to education. The minister says that there is This is a responsibility that this minister has more money spent in education. What she failed to acknowledge and has failed to fails to point out to the Senate—a failure that understand. It is a fundamental principle. We her own department has acknowledged in sub- see now, under this government, ads being missions to the Senate committees—is that put in the paper by the Smith Family. The some $270 million is being cut from the bud- headline reads ‘Amy’s future would be get in terms of moneys that otherwise would bright—if she weren’t too ashamed to go to have been spent as a result of the direct poli- school’. (Time expired) cies of this government. If you include the Senator PATTERSON (Victoria) (4.46 $400 million that is taken away from the p.m.)—I have to start off by saying that states through the general assistance grants, Senator Carr is living in the 1940s and 1950s. the figure is much larger. This government I presume that that is where he has been left has quite clearly engaged not only in double- with his left-wing Labor views: that members speak but in doublethought. The government of the coalition think that everything that is has failed to live up to its fundamental obliga- private is good and everything that is public tions to this society. is bad. That is the old rhetoric of the 1940s Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5701 and 1950s loony left, and we have Senator their way up to being the managing director Carr still living it. You find that the two of the bank. Those days are gone. She is also major speakers, Senator Carr and Senator saying that gone are the days when it was Faulkner, are from the Left. Where are the okay to educate young people in some of the Right? They are not there. They do not want manual trades, that jobs have changed and to take on this issue. They are reliving the old that IT, hospitality and other service industries debate about the private school system versus are the areas where young people need train- the public school system that was going on ing. with the DOGS and other issues. When we came into government, Labor had I could have predicted what Senator Allison a scheme, the jobs pathway guarantee scheme, was going to come in and say. If you look at which was a pilot scheme. They had budgeted her speech on the States Grants (Primary and $2 million for this scheme. Had they begun Secondary Education Assistance) Bill, you to realise that there was a problem with know exactly what she thinks about private vocational education? Do you know how schools. This is what she said when speaking much they had spent in their 1995-96 budget? on this bill: They had spent only $0.5 million. They had If you want to go down in history as being part not got into it. It was in disarray and was of a government which places the interests of disorganised. Minister Vanstone organised the small, fundamentalist and extreme schools at the restructuring of that program to tackle its expense of Australia’s public schooling system, shortcomings. She expanded the program at then by all means vote for this bill. a sustainable rate, providing $2.9 million last You can imagine the reaction of the Jewish, financial year and $3 million this financial Anglican, Christian community and Lutheran year. It was in disarray. schools and some of the small Catholic Senator Allison said that she had read schools that I visit. They were flabbergasted Senator Vanstone’s speech—and I believe that in federal parliament they were being her—but we did not hear one of the people on depicted as ‘fundamentalist’ and ‘extreme’. the other side say that they had read the We knew exactly what she was going to say. whole of her speech. The emphasis in her That just puts on the record and reminds speech was about the need to get schools to people of where Senator Allison was coming respond to the needs of their students, and from about private schools. So she should not that we were working hard to achieve that. come in here and say that. It is the pot calling The upgrading of the jobs pathway guarantee the kettle black. It was totally predictable scheme was one of them. what she would say. In her speech, Senator Vanstone did not What Senator Vanstone has said over and pull out a private school as an example. The over again, both inside and outside this only school she pulled out as an example was chamber, is that schools, irrespective of a state school in South Australia—a school whether they are private or public, need to be that was achieving the sorts of goals that she training young people for life, work and expects of all schools, whether they be state vocation. She has argued over and over again or non-government. She highlighted the that a significant proportion of young people achievement of one state school, because it at both state and non-government schools will was from her state. She did not choose to not go to university and that some schools highlight a private school. were letting young people down by not giving As she said, how can you stand here and them vocational training. condemn her and say that she was slamming Senator Vanstone has also been very critical all government schools? In fact, the very about the ideological push by Labor of down- example she used was of a school that was grading and closing schools which were achieving the aims that she wants to achieve; vocationally oriented. She said that gone are that is, getting young people job ready, being the days when young people could leave flexible, building vocational training into the school at 14, get a job in a bank and work school program and building in a system that 5702 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 does not lock in students. You need to leave The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT open as many doors as possible so that, if (Senator Watson)—The time for this debate they train down one pathway towards univer- has concluded. sity, they should be able to then go into Question put: vocational education or vice versa. That the motion (Senator Faulkner’s) be agreed Isn’t that what everyone wants for their to. children? The doors should be left open so The Senate divided. [4.59 p.m.] that they can go into higher education or (The President—Senator the Hon. Margaret vocational training. That is the sort of flexi- Reid) bility Senator Vanstone is expecting in the Ayes ...... 34 schools and is working towards. She was not Noes ...... 34 about damning government schools. As she —— pointed out, she was not in any way under- Majority ...... 0 estimating the dedication of people who are —— responsible for the education of about 70 per AYES cent of our young people. I reiterate, she Allison, L. Bishop, M. pulled out one example and that example was Bourne, V. Brown, B. of a state school. Carr, K. Childs, B. K. Collins, J. M. A. Conroy, S. As I said, if they had bothered to read the Cook, P. F. S. Cooney, B. Crowley, R. A. Denman, K. J. whole speech, which they did not bother to Evans, C. V. Faulkner, J. P. do, and had not just relied on media reports Foreman, D. J. * Forshaw, M. G. and a single quote, they would have realised Gibbs, B. Hogg, J. that the focus of the minister’s speech was on Kernot, C. Lees, M. H. the role of vocational education. She pointed Lundy, K. Mackay, S. out that the youth labour market had under- Margetts, D. McKiernan, J. P. Murray, A. Neal, B. J. gone permanent change and she did not blame O’Brien, K. W. K. Ray, R. F. schools for current levels of unemployment. Reynolds, M. Schacht, C. C. If the blame lies anywhere, it lies at the feet Sherry, N. Stott Despoja, N. of those on the other side who have the gall West, S. M. Woodley, J. to pull us up for what we are doing about NOES young people and what we are doing about Abetz, E. Alston, R. K. R. overcoming the legacy that Labor left us. Boswell, R. L. D. Brownhill, D. G. C. They left us a legacy of entrenched youth Calvert, P. H. Campbell, I. G. unemployment. They left us a legacy of the Chapman, H. G. P. Coonan, H. Crane, W. Eggleston, A. apprenticeship scheme in shambles. They left Ellison, C. Ferguson, A. B. us a legacy of no hope for young people. Ferris, J Gibson, B. F. Heffernan, W. Herron, J. What Senator Vanstone and Dr Kemp, the Hill, R. M. Kemp, R. two ministers, are doing is to inject hope, to Knowles, S. C. Lightfoot, P. R. inject into both state and non-government Macdonald, I. MacGibbon, D. J. schools a system which responds to the real McGauran, J. J. J. Minchin, N. H. needs of young people in terms of vocational O’Chee, W. G. * Patterson, K. C. L. Payne, M. A. Reid, M. E. education and training, towards post-secon- Synon, K. M. Tambling, G. E. J. dary education. That is what she is on about. Tierney, J. Troeth, J. She was not about slamming government Vanstone, A. E. Watson, J. O. W. schools, and to construe her speech in that PAIRS way is totally unacceptable and wrong. I Bolkus, N. Newman, J. M. would have thought that the opposition could Collins, R. L. Parer, W. R. have focused on some of the positive things Murphy, S. M. Macdonald, S. that are happening rather than carping, as they * denotes teller do all the time. Question so resolved in the negative. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5703

PRESIDENT: VISIT TO JAPAN Senator SHERRY (Tasmania—Deputy The PRESIDENT—I present the report of Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) (5.07 my visit to Japan to participate in the Confer- p.m.)—I would like to thank the minister and ence of Presiding Officers of Upper Houses the officers from the tax department. They and to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the had a meeting with my adviser this morning Japanese House of Councillors which took on the audiovisual services. I have to say place from 19 to 22 May 1997. publicly that we are not totally satisfied and full responsibility lies with you, Senator PARLIAMENTARY RETIRING Kemp, if the definition at some stage proves ALLOWANCES TRUST to be some expansion of the sales tax net. We are still struggling to identify what an audio- The PRESIDENT—I have received a letter visual service is, given the lack of definition. from the Leader of the Opposition in the But I will not be pursuing that issue any Senate nominating Senator Bob Collins to be further at this stage. a member of the Parliamentary Retiring Allowances Trust. Bill, as amended, agreed to. Motion (by Senator Kemp)—by leave— INCOME TAX RATES AMENDMENT agreed to: BILL (No. 1) 1997 That, in accordance with the provisions of the Bill agreed to. Parliamentary Contributory Superannuation Act 1948, the Senate appoints Senator Bob Collins as Taxation Laws Amendment Bill (No. 3) a trustee to serve on the Parliamentary Retiring 1997 reported with amendments; Income Tax Allowances Trust on and from this day in place of Rates Amendment Bill (No. 1) 1997 reported Senator Colston. without amendment; report adopted. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION Third Reading (ELECTION) BILL 1997 Bills (on motion by Senator Kemp) read a Consideration of House of third time. Representatives Message HIGHER EDUCATION FUNDING Message received from the House of Repre- AMENDMENT BILL (No. 1) 1997 sentatives returning the Constitutional Con- vention (Election) Bill 1997, acquainting the Second Reading Senate that the House insists on disagreeing to amendments Nos 1 to 8 and 10 to 68 Debate resumed from 18 June, on motion inclusive insisted upon by the Senate in the by Senator Minchin: bill, and requesting the reconsideration of the That this bill be now read a second time. bill in respect of the said amendments. Senator CARR (Victoria) (5.10 p.m.)—The Ordered that consideration of the message Higher Education Funding Amendment Bill in committee of the whole be an order of the (No. 1) 1997 seeks to adjust for price move- day for the next day of sitting. ments the 1998 amounts payable to higher education institutions under the Higher Educa- TAXATION LAWS AMENDMENT tion Funding Act 1988 for superannuation BILL (No. 3) 1997 expenses, teaching hospitals and special capi- tal projects and to the open learning organisa- INCOME TAX RATES AMENDMENT tion. This bill seeks to give effect to the BILL (No. 1) 1997 restructuring and the rationalisation plans In Committee announced in the budget. It introduces a discount of 25 per cent for up-front HECS Consideration resumed from 25 August. payments of some $500 or more from 1988. The CHAIRMAN—The committee is It also seeks to streamline arrangements for considering the Taxation Laws Amendment student debts under HECS or the open learn- Bill (No. 3) 1997. ing deferred payment schemes. 5704 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

On the surface this is a bill that merely this debate is that the cuts to higher education adds an additional $9.6 million for 1998 on can only be viewed as a damning indictment current legislated amounts. But the truth of of the incompetence of the minister in a the matter is that it hides the true impact of government that has absolutely no commit- this government’s unprecedented assaults on ment to social equality, to the rights of ordi- our nation’s university sector. It hides the nary citizens or to the obligations for the savage attack on the rights of thousands of future development of this country. Australians, both young and old, who seek to This year the minister promised that there gain the benefits of a university education. would be no bad news for education in the I see Senator Kemp has come into the budget. Amongst the platter of bad news it chamber and I have no doubt that he will be has been revealed that a further one per cent looking with some mirth at the predicament cut to the operating grants would apply in the of Senator Vanstone, Minister for Employ- year 2000, which is a further $47.3 million ment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs, taken away from universities. The minister in these difficult times. I am sure that family has tried to claim that the savings were small. commitments here would not override his Remember she lectured the vice chancellors fundamental loyalty to cabinet and govern- that they could not be expected to be immune ment. from expenditure cuts. She is now describing Senator Kemp would also be only too well these cuts as ‘the removal of promised growth aware that this bill has to be viewed in light in the forward estimates’ and calling Labor’s of the budget decisions taken both last year forward estimates ‘not a credible base against and of course this year. In last year’s budget which education expenditure can be the government announced that it was cutting measured’. $624 million from the operating grants of It was the basis on which universities were universities, $215 million from discretionary asked to plan. It was the basis on which funds of universities, and $1.13 billion in universities were told the future growth would savings as a result of its various savings be funded. But, of course, this is a minister measures that it was seeking to make as a that overturns those commitments. There have result of the changes to its HECS arrange- indeed been massive cuts to the education ments. sector. No matter how she tries to dress it up, she cannot hide that fundamental fact. The Last year’s budget dealt a savage blow to talk of the forward estimates brings me to this education—a blow which could have lessened fundamental point: it highlights a great con- if this minister had been prepared to stand up cern to the universities—that the stability of and defend her portfolio and the interests of funding and the future basis of planning is education within the ERC rather than kow- dependent upon stability of funding and the towing to the destructive demands of the commitments of government actually being various economic ministers. honoured. This is a government that has failed Senator Kemp—On a point of order: it is that basic test. appropriate that it be a free ranging debate Labor recognised this need and indeed but we know Senator Carr is a bit bitter legislated for the funding of universities to be having been dumped again today. That is no on a rolling triennium basis. Before the reason, Senator Carr, not to stick to the facts. election, the coalition committed itself to I would urge you, Senator Carr, to stick to the continue the rolling triennium funding ar- facts rather than making wild unsubstantiated rangements, but this promise went the way of assertions. those of the operating grants and of not The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT changing the HECS arrangements midstream. (Senator Foreman)—There is no point of It was quite simply dumped by this govern- order. ment. Senator CARR—What the minister would In Labor’s last budget in 1995, it legislated be aware of is that the fundamental fact in funding for universities to cover 1996, 1997 Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5705 and 1998. In the two budgets since the elec- education campus. We have seen Ballarat tion, however, there has been no move by the University merge with the School of Mines. coalition government to provide the base We have seen faculties being shrunk and funding beyond 1998. This raises the question courses eliminated. about what other unpleasantness this govern- The chair of the government’s own review, ment has in store for the higher education Mr West, has acknowledged that funding cuts sector in this country. Can we expect that the had already hurt universities. The Australian West review will in fact bring forward new Vice-Chancellors Committee, in its submis- measures and new acts of vandalism to be sion to the West review, called for an increase committed against the higher education in government funding for higher education sector? Will it be used as yet another excuse of over 20 per cent. The Business-Higher to find various budget measures to further Education Round Table, which includes the hack into the higher education sector in this head of many of Australia’s leading com- country? panies, warned in its submission to that This is an extremely worrying time for review: universities and for university administrators Without a national vision and sufficient investment who are trying to plan ahead to cope with the in our higher education system, Australia and already drastic cuts that have been announced. today’s young Australians are likely to be marginal- Clearly there is a lack of certainty and a lack ised as the region moves towards higher living standards and more advanced social and political of clarity about what the government actually structures. stands for in relation to the forward projec- tions and where the money will come from to The round table members went on to say: fund the necessities of the higher education Institutions are struggling to find investment capital sector. But what we have in this bill is a for new technologies and teaching materials, to measure by this government to rationalise, to restructure their physical and staff resources to meet new demands. A significant increase in cover up and to try to put a bandaid over the institutional funding to assist in this restructuring enormous scars and cuts that have been left and reinvigorating process is needed and justified. by this government. Government funding will have to provide the major source. Funding cuts and a lack of planning provi- sions are forcing universities to change their Certainly the government is clearly not priorities away from the quality of the educa- listening to such views. Whilst universities are tion provision towards the need to raise struggling to meet new challenges, the money; turning universities away from being government of the day is blithely marching education centres into being businesses. Bit ahead with major funding cuts, oblivious to by bit, they are losing their status as public and unconcerned about the potential harm to institutions serving the educational needs of this country’s future. this country. They are increasingly becoming In that context, the 1997-98 budget and this privatised enterprises intent upon building bill bring no comfort whatsoever. The govern- profits. Universities are increasingly acting as ment announced in the budget that it would big business and their need for funds sub- provide $26 million over four years to help sumes all other priorities, to the detriment of universities to restructure and rationalise. This Australian students who they are supposed to is of course code for what it is really trying be serving. to do, and that is to call upon the universities Since the coalition came to office we have to cope with massive funding cuts. seen some 2,000 jobs lost in this sector. Why is this amount not reflected in the Tutorials have begun to disappear and have additional expenditure provided by this bill? been replaced by so-called optional study Because even the rationalisation money is sessions for which universities can and do offset by yet another expenditure cut, the charge. We have seen the recent decision of ending of the Commonwealth industry places the University of New South Wales to close scheme. The CIPS scheme is a highly suc- the St George campus and to close the teacher cessful program in encouraging industry 5706 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 investment in higher education. By 1999, The nation’s largest university, Monash CIPS would have been supporting about 4,700 University, like so many others, has no faith full-time university places Australia wide with that this government will reverse its funding a large number concentrated at Charles Sturt, cuts or provide funding security for the future. Deakin and Swinburne universities. This was Monash University has just developed a five- supposed to be a budget for the regions, but year plan that includes $20 million per year it has been bad news for regional universities to be raised from fee-paying Australian like Charles Sturt where some 200 jobs are undergraduate students. We see in that plan likely to be lost as a result of the ending of that there are in fact fewer places available the CIPS program. for Victorian students—domestic students—as The regional and newer universities have the university swings away its resources to try been hit hard by this government’s decision to tap into what it sees as a lucrative Asian to allow full up-front fees for Australian market. undergraduates. The ‘sandstone’ universities, The driving force behind the plans of which can trade on their reputation, at least in Monash University is not the quality of the short term, are tying up their fees option service it can provide to Australian students as quickly as they can. They are trying to do but rather the need to expand its income by it to provide additional sources of funding 60 per cent from overseas students on top of which have been lost from government sour- the $20 million from the fee-paying Austral- ces. ian students. Monash developed this plan to Professor Gavin Brown, the Vice-Chancel- reduce its reliance upon federal government lor of the University of Sydney, said on funding from the current 50 per cent of Sydney radio earlier this year: operating revenue to 40 per cent by the year 2002. This is clearly an ominous sign for the It’s the only mechanism left to fill the huge funding gap which has been bequeathed to us all by university sector and should set alarm bells Amanda Vanstone. ringing for all people who believe that it is in this nation’s interest to have a strong, publicly I remind the Senate that recently the RMIT in funded higher education sector. Melbourne also introduced up-front fees. Again, the vice-chancellor is quoted as saying We now see that this government is intent that they had no choice in the matter because on creating two tiers of university access— they had to fill the funding gap left by this one for the wealthy who, even if they government. What you see is a university underperform at school, can get a place at sector in complete chaos with occupations, university by paying up-front fees, and one demonstrations and a return to the period of for the others who are left out because of the the past when there was no security, no sense way tertiary education has been wound back of quality emerging and no sense of national by this backward looking government. The leadership. This government is always looking University of Western Sydney has recently backwards, and this is yet another case. reported that 15 per cent of its students have For other universities, the outlook has been now been discouraged from pursuing a uni- even more bleak. A bleak future for universi- versity education. I noticed a report in the ties equals a similarly bleak one for Austral- Sydney Morning Herald yesterday which ian students and those whose parents do not highlighted a DEETYA study that showed have a spare $100,000 to spend on a full fee that 10 per cent of mature age students had in university education. The Vice-Chancellor of fact been discouraged as a result of the La Trobe University, Professor Michael Os- changes to the higher education contribution borne, has voiced a clear warning about the scheme. direction of Australian universities under the By creating two tiers of university access, Howard government. He has predicted that the Howard government is adding to the the ability to pay will carry greater weight inequality and the fragmentation of our than academic merit for university enrolments, society. In May, the Anglican Social Respon- resulting in a fall in the quality of education. sibilities Committee of Melbourne called the Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5707 introduction of up-front fees ‘a deliberate shift or more on HECS debts already incurred. away from a commitment to . . . an egalitar- Labor supports this proposal. ian society’. In its submission to the West Given that the differential HECS scheme review, the church committee also said it was introduced by this government of a full up- ‘almost certain that a free market in education front payment for one student could represent will in time weaken faculties and/or depart- only a partial payment for another student ments and/or universities which are already depending on the area of study, this would relatively impoverished’. clearly be an inequitable arrangement. How- The minister, of course, takes a different ever, there are a few very important points to view. She has compared universities to a used be made. One is that the cost to the govern- car saleyard saying that some degrees are ment of this measure is estimated to be only worth the price of a used Commodore. In $6.6 million over the next four years. The truth, however, universities do not work government has admitted in its description of effectively as an open market. Education is this measure in budget paper (No. 2) that: far more important than to be treated as a Although this initiative has a small cost, there are mere commodity, and this is something Mr gains to the government in terms of net lending for Roderick West has noted. On 28 May this HECS in the early years. year, he was quoted in the Australian as This tiny additional expenditure must be saying: viewed against last year’s budget cuts which saw $1.130 billion pulled out of government There’s no doubt about it, there’s such a strong link between higher education participation and expendi- expenditure on HECS over the four years—a ture and economic and social wellbeing. So there massive impost on students and one which are very compelling arguments for continuing has already had a negative impact on access substantial public support. for people, particularly those from disadvan- Of course, the minister had someone go taged backgrounds. around and tap him on the shoulder and made Further, the discount introduced by the bill sure that those sorts of views were recanted. favours those who already have the capacity But I still believe that is essentially the view to pay at least a $500 up-front fee. It does Mr West holds himself, that after travelling nothing for those who are unable to put this country he understands the depth of together such a sum. This budget does noth- feeling on this issue and understands the ing to reverse or change in any way the importance of public investment in higher damage done in last year’s budget to student education. The Business-Higher Education access through the enormous cuts through Round Table has also said: HECS and, of course, the changes to Austudy. That foundation of national intellectual capital will The impact of increased course costs of up continue to demand (and justify) substantial public to 125 per cent, the lowering of the HECS funding. payment threshold for some from $8,000 below average weekly earnings and the They went on: substantial reduced access to student income There is a further requirement for continued, robust support can be seen in the fall in application government support for higher education. of university entrants, which we have seen Yet this government is taking us down the this year. Figures released by the Department American path. It is seeking to introduce the of Employment, Education, Training and user pays commercial principles and, of Youth Affairs show a 3.4 per cent decline in course, on a two-tiered social basis. This bill applications Australia-wide. We have seen the also introduces a 25 per cent discount for massive disincentive that such measures have partial up-front HECS payments of $500 or already applied, particularly for mature age more. Currently, the 25 per cent discount groups. applies only to payments in full. This measure It strikes me as extraordinary that, given is separate from the 15 per cent discount this evidence, this government still insists on which applies to voluntary payments of $500 suggesting that the higher education sector is 5708 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 thriving. I suppose you could tell the students Obligated Nuclear Material under the at the RMIT that the higher education sector Agreement concerning Cooperation in is thriving. You could tell those who have Peaceful uses of Nuclear Energy and the Transfer of Nuclear Material, of 2 May been forced to occupy the buildings at RMIT 1979. that the higher education sector is thriving. Project Arrangement between the Govern- As a result of the measures taken by this ment of Australia and the Government of government, you see a massive introduction the United States of America on Data of inequality. The opposition believes that Fusion for Over-The-Horizon Radar. there should be a second reading amendment Project Arrangement between the Govern- carried by the Senate on these matters. Such ment of Australia and the Government of an amendment may read: the United States of America on Detection and Tracking of Targets in Clutter. . . . calls on the Senate to note that it is the opinion that a proper resource— Treaty between the Government of Australia and the Government of the Republic of The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT Indonesia establishing an Exclusive Eco- (Senator Foreman)—Order! It being 5.30 nomic Zone Boundary and Certain Seabed p.m., the Senate stands adjourned. Boundaries, done at Perth on 14 March Senate adjourned at 5.30 p.m. 1997. Treaty between the Government of Australia DOCUMENTS and the Government of the United States of America on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Tabling Matters, and Exchange of Notes constituting The following government documents were an Agreement on the interpretation and application of the Treaty on Mutual Assist- tabled: ance in Criminal Matters, done at Washing- Advance to the Minister for Finance—Statement ton on 30 April 1997. and supporting applications of issues—May Multilateral— 1997. Amendments, done at Harare in June 1997, Defence Act—Army and Air Force Canteen to Appendices I and II of the Convention on Service Regulations—Army and Air Force International Trade in Endangered Species Canteen Service Board of Management—Report of Wild Fauna and Flora, of 3 March 1973. for period 30 January 1996 to 31 January 1997. Employment, Education and Training Act— Fourth Protocol, done at Geneva on 15 National Board of Employment, Education and April 1997, to the General Agreement on Training—Higher Education Council—Report— Trade in Services, of 15 April 1994. Quality in resource based learning, July 1997. Second Agreement, done at Vienna on 24 National Health and Medical Research Council May 1997, to extend the Regional Coopera- Act—National Health and Medical Research tive Agreement for Research, Development Council—Strategic plan for 1997-2000. and Training Related to Nuclear Science and Technology, of 2 February 1987. Provision for running costs borrowings— Statement and supporting applications of is- National interest analysis for texts previous- sues—May 1997. ly tabled— Treaties— Bilateral— Text, together with national interest analysis— Treaty on Extradition between Australia and the Oriental Republic of Uruguay, done at Bilateral— Montevideo on 7 October 1988. [The text of Agreement between the Government of the Treaty was tabled in the House of Australia and the Government of the Repub- Representatives on 10 May 1989 and the lic of Kazakstan on Economic and Commer- Senate on 23 May 1989] cial Cooperation, done at Almaty on 7 May Treaty on Extradition between Australia and 1997. the Republic of Turkey, done at Canberra Exchange of Notes, done at Seoul on 11 on 3 March 1994, and Exchange of Notes, August 1997, constituting an Agreement done at Ankara on 27 and 28 March 1995, between the Government of Australia and constituting an Agreement to correct the the Government of the Republic of Korea Treaty on Extradition and as to the interpre- concerning the Retransfer of Australian tation of the Treaty as corrected. [The texts Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5709

of the Treaty and Exchange of Notes were CASA 188/97, CASA 199/97, CASA 200/97 and tabled in both Houses of Parliament on 21 CASA 202/97. June 1995] Health Insurance Act—Health Insurance Deter- Tabling mination HS/2/1997. Superannuation Act 1990—Declarations— The following documents were tabled by Statutory Rules 1997 Nos 212-214. the Clerk: Sydney Airport Curfew Act—Dispensations Civil Aviation Act—Civil Aviation Regula- granted under section 20—Dispensations Nos tions—Civil Aviation Orders—Instruments— 6/97 and 7/97. 5710 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

The following answers to questions were circulated:

Beecroft Peninsula identify ‘protection of native fauna from bushfires’ as an issue for the Jervis Bay range, is the Minister (Question No. 590) aware that the Australian Heritage Commission be- Senator Lees asked the Minister represent- lieves that fires may have severe adverse effects on endangered species and littoral rainforest communi- ing the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on ties on Beecroft Peninsula. 12 May 1997: (14) (a) Have Defence Force activities caused (1) On which dates from 1 January 1994 to the fires on Beecroft Peninsula in the past; and (b) present has Beecroft Peninsula, Jervis Bay, been what assessment has been made of the impact of closed to the public. these fires on endangered species and on littoral (2) On which dates from 1 January 1994 to the rainforest communities. present was Beecroft Peninsula being bombarded. (15) Given that the 1995 report fails to identify (3) (a) On which dates from 1 January 1994 to ‘fauna of sandy shorelines’, ‘disturbance to bird the present were non-Australian military personnel colonies or rookeries by aircraft noise’ and ‘emer- involved in bombardment activity on Beecroft gency dumping of fuel in flight’ as issues for the Peninsula; and (b) from which countries were those Jervis Bay range, do the Navy’s activities at Jervis personnel. Bay and Beecroft Peninsula affect fauna of sandy shorelines, disturb bird colonies or rookeries, create (4) Does the Australian Government receive any noise, or involve the dumping of fuel. payment from foreign governments for activities involving non-Australian military personnel at Bee- (16) Will replacing the JINDAVIK target system croft Peninsula. with the JP7 Aerial Target System lead to an in- creased environmental impact on Beecroft Peninsu- (5) What is the expected future pattern of la, given that JINDAVIK was used primarily on bombardment activity on the Beecroft Peninsula. Bherwerre Peninsula. (6) Will the department be closing Beecroft (17) In regard to the proposed JP7 Aerial Target Peninsula to the public on weekdays for the System: (a) what is the process for assessing and foreseeable future. approving the system; (b) what role does Envi- (7) Does the Minister consider it appropriate, ronment Australia’s Environment Protection Group considering the current process of Aboriginal recon- play in this assessment; (c) who is responsible for ciliation, to use sacred Aboriginal land on Beecroft assessing each stage; and (d) what is the expected Peninsula for bombing practice. timetable for this process. (8) Does the Minister consider it appropriate to (18) Is the Government intending to carry out an offer sacred Aboriginal land on Beecroft Peninsula environmental impact statement on the JP7 Aerial to the defence forces of other countries, such as Target System. New Zealand and the United States of America, for Senator Newman—The Minister for De- bombardment practice. fence has provided the following answer to (9) Is the Minister aware that Beecroft Peninsula the honourable senator’s question: contains rare and endangered fauna species. (1) Beecroft Weapons Range on Beecroft Penin- (10) Is the Minister aware that politicians from sula is closed to the public for a number of reasons. both the Coalition and the Australian Labor Party These include: bombardment by naval guns firing have promised Beecroft Peninsula to the Australian ammunition including salvoes of high explosive and people as a national park. illuminant, artillery bombardment by Army field (11) Is the Minister aware that the current guns and howitzers firing similar ammunition types; Federal Member for Gilmore supports the gazettal practice bombing by military aircraft dropping of Beecroft Peninsula as a national park. dummy bombs or firing inert-head (non-explosive) rockets and cannon; mortar and small arms firing (12) Will the Minister work to have Beecroft exercises; non-firing exercises; Lighthouse Road Peninsula declared a national park. maintenance; and feral animal eradication. The (13) Given that the 1995 Royal Australian Navy following information lists the dates that Beecroft (RAN) State of the Environment report fails to Range was closed for the years 1994 to 1997. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5711

1994: February: 7-11, 14-24, 28; March: 1-4, 7-8, 1997: February: 17-20 and 25; March: 4-6, 18 and 14-16, 21-23; April: 12-21, 26-28; May: 3-4, 9-12, 26; April: 9, 15-16; and May: 5-8, 20-22 and 26- 16-19; June: 6-9, 14-16, 20-23; July: 11-14, 19-21, 28. 25-26; August: 22-26, 29-31; September: 5-9, 12- Total: (to 31 May 97): Naval bombardment 17 16, 20-21; October: 10-12, 17-19, 24-27, 31; days November: 1-3, 6-10, 21-30; and December: 1-2, Air to ground inert practice bombing 10 6-7, 12-14. days. 1995: February: 7-8, 13-15, 20-22 and 27-28; (3) (a) and (b) March: 6-7 and 23-28; April: 3-5, 11-13, 17-21 and 1994: 24-26; May: 1-4, 8-13, 15-19, 22-25 and 29-31; June: 1-2, 5-8, 13-16, 19-23 and 26-30; July: 17-21 February: 28 and 24-28; August: 1-4, 7-10 and 28-31; Septem- No 2 Squadron (SQN), Royal New Zealand Air ber: 1, 4-7, 11-15 and 18-21; October: 9-12, 17-20 Force (RNZAF); and 23-25; November: 27-30; and December: 1 and March: 1-4 and 7-8 4-6. No 2 SQN, RNZAF; 1996: January: 29-31; February: 5-8, 13-15, 19-22 April: 14-15 and 26-29; March: 4-29; April: 15-18 and 22-24; No 2 SQN, RNZAF; May: 8-10, 13 and 27-28; June: 24-27; July: 15-18 and 22-25; August: 12-15 and 19-30; September: May: 3-4, 10-11 and 17-19 9-11, 16-17 and 23-27; October: 14-17, 21-25 and No 2 SQN, RNZAF; 28-31; November: 1, 11-15, 18-21 and 25-29; and September: 8 and 14 December: 2-5 and 9-13. Her Majesty’s New Zealand Ship (HMNZS) 1997: February: 10-12, 17-20 and 24-26; March: 3- WAIKATO / HMNZS WELLINGTON; 6, 10-20 and 24-27; April: 7-9, 14-16; and May: 5- October: 17-19 and 25-27 9, 12-15, 19-22 and 26-28. No 2 SQN, RNZAF; and (2) The following information lists the dates from November: 2-4 and 8-10 1 January 1994 to the present when Beecroft No 2 SQN, RNZAF. Peninsula was being bombarded. 1995 1994: February: 9-10, 14-17, 21-24 and 28; March: April: 26 1-3, 7-8, 14-16; April: 13-15; May: 3-4, 10-11 and No 2 SQN 17-19; June: 8-9 and 15-16; July: 12-14, 19-21 and 26; August: 24-26 and 29-31; September: 6-8 and RNZAF; 13-16; October: 17-21, 25-28 and 31; November: May: 1-4, 8-12, 15-19 2-4, 8-10 and 22-23; and December: 2 and 5. No 2 SQN, RNZAF; Total: Naval bombardment 44 days June: 21-22 Air to ground inert practice bombing 31 No 2 SQN RNZAF; days. 20, 23 1995: February: 7-8, 13-15, 20, 22 and 28; March: HMNZS WELLINGTON; 1-2 and 7; April: 26; May: 1-4, 8-12, 15-19, 22-25 23 and 30-31; June: 1-2, 5, 7-8, 14-16 and 20-23; July: HMNZS WAIKATO; 17-19, 21 and 24-28; August: 2-4, 8, 10 and 28-31; July: 17-18 September: 1, 4-7, 12-13 and 15; October: 11-12, HMNZS WELLINGTON; 17-20 and 23-25; November: 29-30; and December: 1. 24-28 No 2 SQN, RNZAF; Total: Naval bombardment 55 days August: 28-31 Air to ground inert practice bombing 41 No 2 SQN, RNZAF; days September: 1, 4-6 and 11-15 1996: January: 30-31; February: 6-7, 14-15, 19-22, No 2 SQN, RNZAF; 26, 28-29; April: 15-17 and 23-24; May: 9-10 and 27-28; July: 16-18 and 23; September: 10, 16-17; October: 23-25 October: 14-16, 22-25 and 28-31; November: 1, 14, No 2 SQN, RNZAF; 20-21 and 25-28; and December: 4 and 13. November: 29-30 Total: Naval bombardment 18 days No 2 SQN, RNZAF; and Air to ground inert practice bombing 43 December: 1 days. No 2 SQN, RNZAF. 5712 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

1996: employed as Australian National Parks and Wildlife February: 14-15, 19-22 and 28 Service Rangers on Beecroft Peninsula. They No 2 SQN, RNZAF; provide a unique insight into aboriginal issues pertinent to the Range and provide advice on all April: 15-17 and 23-24 Defence activities which may effect any sites of No 2 SQN, RNZAF; spiritual or cultural significance. Defence is very May: 9-10 and 27-28 receptive to such advice and activities are modified No 2 SQN, RNZAF; accordingly. July: 16-18 and 23 All live firing activities are restricted to the Impact Area which occupies 400 hectares, or 10 HMNZS CANTERBURY; percent, of Commonwealth owned land on Beecroft 17 and 23 Peninsula. Following notification by the Jerrinja HMNZS WAIKATO; community in 1986, the symbolic and mythological September: 16-17 value of the "Drum and Drumsticks" group of islets HMNZS WAIKATO; was recognised. Consequently, this rock formation is excluded from the Impact Area. Members of the October: 22-23 JLALC have identified as sacred sites "Devils No 2 SQN, RNZAF; and Hole", 1.2 km south of the Impact Area, and rock November: 21 art sites at "Gum Getters Gully", 0.6km north of HMNZS WAIKATO. the Impact Area. No sacred sites have been identi- fied within the Impact Area. 1997: All land based Defence training exercises are May: 5-7, 12, 20, 22 and 26-27 assessed for potential environmental impact by the No 2 SQN, RNZAF. Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service (4) Foreign military units conducting independent environmental managers, prior to their approval. No activities on Beecroft range are charged fees on a Defence training activities are permitted near areas cost recovery basis. Fees are not charged when of natural or cultural significance. All Defence foreign units are conducting those activities in personnel undertaking training activities are briefed company with Australian Defence Force (ADF) on areas of cultural significance by Aboriginal units, as substantial training benefits for the ADF Ranger staff employed with the Australian National are achieved during such activities. Parks and Wildlife Service as part of the environ- (5) Beecroft is in use for an average of 120 days mental management and advisory service provided per year. While levels of activity may increase as for the Beecroft Weapons Range. the Anzac Class ships enter service, it is believed (8) My response to question 7 addresses the that any increase beyond the 120 days would be protection by the Department of Defence of sacred minimal. and significant Aboriginal sites. In regard to the (6) Yes. Closure of the Beecroft Peninsula is Defence Forces of other countries, Australia has done to ensure public safety. (See also answer to defence treaty obligations and agreements with question 1 above). The Range is open to the public allied and friendly nations regarding the use of on all NSW school and public holidays, and weapon ranges. Such agreements ensure reciprocal generally weekends outside the holiday period. ADF access to overseas facilities. Closing the Range also allows Australian Nation- (9) Yes. Environmental management on Beecroft al Parks and Wildlife Service environmental Peninsula aims to ensure rare and endangered fauna managers to conduct activities which normally species are protected and monitored for adverse could not be undertaken when the Range is open to impacts arising from Defence as well as public the public. For example, the Range was closed for activities. The Department of Defence is well aware three weeks in March 1996 and two weeks in of the high profile of the Beecroft Peninsula and March 1997 (including weekends) to enable a actively seeks to ensure the values, for which the strategic vertebrate pest control program (Operation Peninsula is noted, are maintained and protected. Restoration) to be conducted using poison baits. Foxes and feral cats are recognised as potentially (7) The Department of Defence is committed to significant introduced predators and are known to maintaining the Aboriginal heritage values of impact upon native wildlife at Jervis Bay. Oper- Beecroft Peninsula and has undertaken a number of ation Restoration aims to reduce the population of management initiatives to ensure their protection. these predators on Beecroft Peninsula to such low Navy liaises with representatives of the Jerrinja numbers that their impact upon native wildlife is Local Aboriginal Land Council (JLALC) to deter- negligible. This will then allow the re-introduction mine the most appropriate ways in which sites can of such native species as the bandicoot and poto- be protected and the cultural values interpreted. roo. Both Australian National Parks and Wildlife Two members of the Jerrinja community are Service and naval personnel are actively engaged Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5713 in implementing this program, which is largely excellent environmental management and protection funded by the Department of Defence. service to the Navy during that time. (10) The Minister is aware of a number of The 1995 RAN SoER did not ‘fail’ to identify expressions of support attributed to Federal and the issue in question. On the contrary, the purpose State politicians. of the checklist achieved its purpose in identifying (11) The Minister met recently to discuss issues areas for management action/improvement. As a pertaining to Beecroft Peninsula with the Federal result of the data provided by the checklist, policy Member for Gilmore. The Minister is aware that advice on the matter of ‘protection of native fauna the Member for Gilmore has visited Beecroft from bushfires’ is now provided in the ABR 6111, Peninsula and has made positive comments about RAN Environmental Policy Manual., Volume 1, Defence’s custodianship of the area. Chapter 6, titled Fire Management. Section 6.2 refers to Protection of Assets and Natural Areas. (12) Beecroft Peninsula is required by the ADF Additionally, the Jervis Bay Naval Environmental for training purposes. The nature of the activities Management Plan provides specific advice on these which occur on the peninsula necessitate the issues in Part 3, Program 3.4, Fire Management; provision of safety buffer zones. These ensure that and Program 3.5, Terrestrial Flora and Fauna. the land remains free of urban and pastoral expan- sion and experiences only restricted public access. The Jervis Bay Naval Environmental Manage- There is little doubt historically that the reservation ment Plan also calls for the employment of an of Beecroft Peninsula and its management for Environmental Manager for the Jervis Bay region. Defence purposes have been the principal reasons That position was advertised in the Commonwealth that it remains in a substantially natural condition. Gazette on 01 May 97. (13) The source document from which the Additionally, the Navy has a good history with question has been drawn is an internal document respect to the reduction of fire hazards and the expressly prepared for the development of RAN prevention of fire. Research into the Beecroft fire environmental management policy and plans. The regime was completed under contract to Australian question relates to one of 292 questions included National Parks and Wildlife Service on behalf of in an environmental checklist developed to survey the Navy. There are also long standing arrange- environmental issues relevant to Naval activities. ments between the State, local and Naval fire In the first instance the results of the checklist fighters for the suppression of fires on Beecroft were used to prepare the widely acclaimed Austral- Peninsula. With respect to botanical issues, exten- ian Book of Reference (ABR 6111) RAN Environ- sive work has been completed on the peninsula that mental Policy Manual, Volumes 1 and 2. gives the Navy and Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service a good understanding of the fire In the second instance the results were published regime and the complexity of the local flora. All of as the RAN State of the Environment Report (RAN these issues are further addressed in the Jervis Bay SoER) 1995, providing evidence of the Navy’s Naval Environmental Management Plan. good intent to correct any outstanding environment- al management issues. The Department of Defence, in cooperation with the contracted environmental managers, seeks to The checklist not only provided data for the reduce the incidence of fires arising from either development of two very important environmental Defence activities or from other events (such as base-line documents for the Navy, but also provid- lightning strikes or wildfires). No bombardment of ed a useful educational tool for the personnel of the any kind is permitted during a Total Fire Ban. ships and establishments involved in the survey. It During periods of extreme or high fire danger, and was in fact a self audit of environmental manage- whenever the drought index is at or above 40 ment issues. That a number of issues were reported points, the use of illuminants is prohibited. Similar- as ‘not identified’ or ‘not being managed’ meant ly, when a moderate fire danger exists, the use of that improvements to the existing management illuminants is prohibited if the wind exceeds 10 programs could be made to rectify the situation. It knots from the east or 20 knots from the south. did not mean that nothing was being done. Beecroft Peninsula has had a Land Management Plan since A Beecroft Weapons Range fire management 1986 and this was recently replaced with the Jervis plan for the Peninsula has been prepared under the Bay Naval Environmental Management Plan in Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service October 1996. The new plan being an example of contract by the former Fire Control Officer for the the Navy’s continual improvement with respect to Shoalhaven region. This plan prescribes ecological environmental policy. Throughout this period the burning regimes which are designed to protect the Australian Nature Conservation Agency (now natural biodiversity of the Peninsula. Projects under Australian National Parks and Wildlife Service) the Research and Surveys Program have provided Rangers were employed to manage the peninsula considerable information on the effects of fire upon on behalf of the Navy. They have provided an Beecroft flora and fauna. 5714 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

For example, in 1995 the CSIRO Division of pressly prepared for the development of Naval Entomology was contracted to undertake an investi- environmental management policy and plans. gation of the short term effects of fire on inverte- Policy advice on fauna of sandy shorelines, brates in the coastal heathland on the Peninsula. disturbance to bird colonies or rookeries by aircraft The survey revealed a high invertebrate species noise, and emergency dumping of fuel is provided diversity, reflecting the highly diverse vegetation in the ABR 6111, RAN Environmental Policy characteristic of heathland sites. Two new species Manual., Volume 1, Chapter 7, Coastal Zone of Collembola (Springtails) were recorded, both of Management; Chapter 8, Coastal and Marine which may be specific to the Jervis Bay region. Habitats, Plants and Animals; Chapter 12, Noise The consultants made a series of recommendations Pollution, Section 12.3 Aircraft Noise, and Chapter from this survey which related directly to fire 11, Air Pollution, Section 11.4, Airborne Release management. These have been incorporated into the of Aviation Fuel. fire management plan. In particular the Jervis Bay Naval Environmental Finally, the Register of the National Estate Management Plan provides specific advice on these Database Place Report states that the Peninsula is issues in Part 3, Programs: 3.6 Shoreline and in substantially natural condition and that naval Nearshore Areas, and 3.10 Air Pollution Control. bombardment has not caused significant damage to With respect to the impact of aircraft noise on the vegetation. birds, the Navy has an ongoing operational require- (14) (a) Yes. ment in the Jervis Bay area and a certain amount of noise is an integral part of that activity. Noise (b) The effects of fire have been documented was discussed as an issue during the development extensively in a number of scientific reports of the Jervis Bay Naval Environmental Manage- commissioned by the Australian National Parks and ment Plan but there is no evidence to suggest that Wildlife Service. the noise from Naval operations over Beecroft A fire management plan was prepared in 1996 Peninsula is having an adverse effect on bird which investigated and assessed fire history on the colonies or rookeries in the area. The Beecroft Beecroft Weapons Range. This report concluded Peninsula has abundant bird life including large that the primary land use has not adversely impact- birds of prey. Additionally, Australian National ed on the vegetation communities. Parks and Wildlife Service has implemented a very A vegetation survey was prepared in 1994 which successful threat abatement plan to reduce the concluded that the vegetation communities on the impact of introduced species on the native fauna on Range were diverse and in relatively good condi- the peninsula. All of these issues are further tion. addressed in the Jervis Bay Naval Environmental Management Plan. In a June 1996 report to the Australian National There is no ecological or visual evidence to Parks and Wildlife Service and NSW National suggest RAN activities affect sandy shoreline Parks and Wildlife Service, concerning the conser- fauna. Logistics Over the Shore exercises at vation and management of the ground parrot, the Beecroft Peninsula were discontinued in 1992 in survey identified the Peninsula as having one of the response to concerns arising from the potential highest mainland densities of the species on the environmental impact of such activities. eastern seaboard. The report suggested this may be due to the varying age mosaic of the heath created Ecologically, there are no discrete bird colonies by small patchy burns. or rookeries on the Peninsula. The high density of ground parrots indicates the effect of any noise Low reptile and amphibian species diversity disturbance is insignificant. identified in a survey conducted in 1995, was Dumping of fuel is not a practice conducted over attributed to both relatively infertile soils and a Beecroft Peninsula. narrow isthmus connecting Beecroft Peninsula with the mainland, effectively restricting immigration. (16) The new target system, named "KAL- KARA", is a zero length launched system designed Fires initiated by Defence activities are generally to be deployable and is capable of operation from small, restricted to the Impact Area and promptly any bare site to support the training requirements extinguished. No fires initiated by Defence activi- of the ADF. Two East Coast operating sites are ties are known to have affected the littoral rain- being considered for KALKARA, one being the forest. Range Standing Orders prohibit the use of Jervis Bay airfield, and the other the present solid fuel fires by both Defence personnel and the RAPIER site on Beecroft. public. Whilst JINDIVIK requires a runway for launch (15) The general comments in response to and recovery, and can only be operated from the Question 13 are iterated here, particularly the Jervis Bay airfield, KALKARA is able to operate indicated lack of understanding, and drawing of from either the airfield or Beecroft. Therefore any conclusions, from an internal working document ex- launch of KALKARA that takes place from Bee- Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5715 croft will be increased activity from that site, but With reference to the Australian Institute of will not necessarily impact significantly on the Criminology Conference, Privatisation and environment. Public Policy: A Correctional Case Study, to (17) The new aircraft contracted for by the ADF be held in Melbourne on 16 and 17 June will be treated as a Naval aircraft, and the process- 1997: es for assessing and approving the system in safety and airworthiness terms will be no less rigorous (1) Who initiated the idea of a conference on than those applied to any aircraft currently operated private prisons. by the RAN. (2) Was it, in fact, the Australian Institute of Department of Defence environmental policy Criminology (AIC) or was it another organisation, requires that new projects have minimal adverse including a private prison company. effects on the environment. The directive is given (3) (a) How much sponsorship has been received in Defence Instruction (Navy) (DI(N)) ADMIN 39- by the AIC from Corrections Corporation of 1 Environment and Heritage Protection. The Australia, Group 4 Correction Services, THEISS requirement covers the development of facilities as Contractors, Victoria Corrections or others; and (b) well as the provision of new equipment and the please nominate the amounts and type of sponsor- supporting infrastructure for that equipment. As ship. well, the requirement covers operational activities (4) Have any other benefits been promised to the and exercises. AIC by these other companies. Pursuant to the directive of DI(N) ADMIN 39-1 (5) What agreement was reached on what AIC the requirements are that: would provide in the way of a conference program (i) the Aerial Target System be launched, operat- or other benefits in return for the sponsorship. ed, recovered and serviced in an environmentally (6) Who determined the conference program, the responsible manner; speakers and the topics for discussion. (ii) there be no adverse effects on the users of (7) (a) What proportion of the speakers are from the environment from or near where the Aerial the (i) private, (ii) community and (iii) public sec- Target System is launched, operated and re- tors; and (b) who are they. covered’; and Senator Ellison—The Attorney-General has (iii) the operation of the Aerial Target System be provided the following answer to the honour- managed so that any possible adverse effects are minimised. able senator’s question: (a) A Notice of Intention (NOI) and Environment (1) The Australian Institute of Criminology. Management Program has been prepared pursuant (2) Yes. See answer to (1). to paragraph 2.2 of the Administrative Procedures (3) (a) Corrections Corporation of Australia and under the Environment Protection (Impact of Group 4 Correction Services have each promised Proposals) Act 1974 and is currently subject to sponsorship of $3,000. No other sponsorship has further review prior to possible submission to EPG. been offered. (b) Environment Australia’s Environmental (b) Two amounts of $3,000. Financial. Protection Group (EPG) will be consulted regarding (4) No. KALKARA environmental implications. (5) None. (c) The Department in association with the EPG is responsible for assessing and determining the (6) The Director of the AIC, a research analyst appropriate way ahead. at the AIC and a member of the AIC Board of Management. (d) The review and determination is expected at sometime during the 3rd quarter of 1997. (7) (a) of the twenty-nine speakers, (i) three were from the private sector, (ii) seven were from the (18) This cannot be judged until an environ- community or academic sector; (iii) sixteen were mental assessment has been completed against Government employees, one was a judge and two DI(N) ADMIN 39-1 and a determination has been were Ministers. made. (b) The Hon Bill McGrath, MP, Minister for Private Prisons Corrections, Victoria; The Hon Patrick McNamara, MP, Deputy Premier of Victoria; Justice Frank (Question No. 594) Vincent, Supreme Court of Victoria; Dr Adam Graycar, Director, Australian Institute of Criminol- Senator Murray asked the Minister repre- ogy, Canberra; Dr Leo Keliher, Commissioner, senting the Attorney-General, upon notice, on Department of Corrective Services, NSW; Professor 14 May 1997: Mark Considine, University of Melbourne/Deakin 5716 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Human Services Australia; Ms Anne Dutney, (7) (a) Are rural women’s concerns being heard General Manager, Operations, Corrections Corpora- by the Government? and (b) Are women’s concerns tion of Australia; Mr Bill Curnow, National Man- limited by economic considerations. ger, Infrastructure, Research and Development, (8) What economic considerations outweigh THEISS Contractors; Mr Tim Daly, Deputy Secre- issues of domestic violence and homelessness. tary (Justice Operations), Office of the Secretary, Department of Justice, Victoria; Mr Tony Wilson, (9) Is the Government acting on any of the Project Director, New Prisons Project, Department material from the Forum; if so what action is the of Justice, Victoria; Mr Stan Macionis, Queensland Government taking. Corrections Corporation Commission; Professor Senator Parer—The Minister for Primary Richard Harding, Director, Crime Research Centre, University of Western Australia; Mr Grant Johnson, Industries and Energy has provided the Director, Community Correctional Services, following answers to the honourable senator’s CORE—the Public Correctional Enterprise; Ms questions: Brenda Smith, Assistant Commissioner, NSW These questions were originally directed to the Corrections; Ms Angela Musumeci, Regional Minister Representing the Prime Minister for the Manager Operations and Support, Community Status of Women in Senate Question on Notice Corrections, Queensland; Mr Alf Bamblett, Chair, 563. Questions (7) and (8) relate to matters which Aboriginal Justice Advisory Council of Victoria; are primarily the responsibility of the Minister Mr Trevor Christian, General Manager, Sydney Representing the Prime Minister for the Status of Regional Aboriginal Corporation; Mr John Van Women, and her detailed answer was provided to Groningen, Commissioner, Correctional Services, the honourable senator on Thursday 29 May. Victoria; Mr Denbigh Richards, Deputy Secretary for Corrective Services Tasmania, Department of Questions (1) to (6) and (9) relate to a Forum Justice; Mr Paul Moyle, James Cook University, which was conducted by the Department of Primary Queensland; Mr Stephen Twinn, Director of Industries and Energy in conjunction with other Operations and Business Development, Group 4 State and Territory agencies represented on the Correction Services; Mr Michael Burt, Department Standing Committee for Agriculture and Resource of Human Services, Victoria; Mr Michael Boswell, Management (SCARM). Department of Correctional Services, South Aus- (1) Yes, a National Forum on Women in Agri- tralia; Mr Guy Hall, Edith Cowan University, culture and Resource Management was held in Western Australia; Ms Helen Kay, Adult Education Canberra on 24-26 March 1997. and Vocational Training Institute; Mr Gary Wert, CORE—the Public Correctional Enterprise; Mr (2) The Forum aimed "to recognise and support Bernard Meatheringham, Department for Correc- women’s current and potential contribution to tional Services, South Australia; Mr Ken Penaluna, increased competitiveness and innovation in Department of Corrections, Victoria; Mr Ron agriculture and sustainable natural resource man- Wilson, Kangan TAFE. agement." The Forum had a four-part agenda: National Rural Women’s Forum (i) Initial keynote addresses, panel presentations, (Question No. 623) and presentations by individual rural women provided participants with information about: Senator Stott Despoja asked the Minister - the nature and value of women’s participation representing the Minister for Primary Indus- in the sector; tries and Energy, upon notice, on 11 June - the importance of increasing the diversity of 1997: those who contribute to decision making in (1) Was a National Rural Women’s Forum held Australian industries; in Canberra from 24-26 March 1997. - barriers to women’s greater participation; and (2) What was the agenda at that meeting. - strategies being developed by stakeholder organisations to support women’s greater participa- (3) Were rural women represented; if so, in what tion. capacity. (ii) Workshops on the first day provided an (4) How many of the speakers were women. opportunity for participants to identify issues in (5) (a) How many delegates were at the forum; agriculture and resource management and the role and (b) how many of the delegates were women. of women in achieving improved outcomes. This discussion included a focus on the barriers experi- (6) Are rural women setting the rural women’s enced by women participating in decision making agenda. in the sector. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5717

(iii) A second workshop session called for for Australian Agricultural Women, and specific strategies to address these barriers. Australian Women in Agriculture. Representa- (iv) State, Territory and national action groups tives of these organisations are included in the then met to make specific commitments to action. Secretary’s Advisory Group on Rural Women Commitments made by each State or Territory and and on a national project advisory group for by a working group of national organisations are to research on women’s participation in the be further developed post Forum. sector. A similar consultative process is in place in individual State and Territory govern- (3) The Standing Committee on Agriculture and ment agencies in the sector. Resource Management (SCARM) funded the attendance at the Forum of 91 rural women from . Significant numbers of women participated in all States and Territories. The Standing Committee the National Rural Finance Summit held in comprises the Chief Executive Officers of the Canberra in July 1996. government agencies in the Commonwealth, States . Round table discussions leading to the devel- and Territories with responsibility for agriculture opment of a Business Plan for Australian and resource management matters. The Standing Agriculture have involved the heads of the Committee specifically sought the advice of these three national rural women’s non-government women about ways in which their agencies could organisations. more effectively recognise and support the work of . Primary Industries and Energy Minister the women in agriculture and resource management. Hon John Anderson MP facilitated a meeting (4) Slightly over half of the speakers at the on World Rural Women’s Day in October Forum were women: 1996 between rural women and Prime Minister . of the six speakers on the Forum’s opening the Hon John Howard MP, in which rural night, all were women; women’s concerns were heard. One direct result of this meeting was the appointment by . two of the four keynote speakers in the the Prime Minister of wine maker Faye Forum’s opening session were women; McGuigan to the Supermarket to Asia Council. . one of the two speakers on private sector . Primary Industries and Energy Minister John diversity management was a woman; Anderson has strongly supported the increased . a rural sector panel of heads of national involvement of rural women in decision stakeholder bodies was all male. making in the sector, and was involved in both opening and closing the recent National Forum (5) There were 212 delegates at the Forum. 158 on Women in Agriculture and Resource Man- were women and 54 were male. agement. (6) Rural women are directly and indirectly . The Standing Committee on Agriculture and involved in setting the rural women’s agenda: Resource Management (SCARM) has estab- . Rural women have taken the initiative in lished a Rural Women’s Working Group to holding significant national conferences in report to it on: recent years to address diverse issues of . (i) best practice in relation to women who are concern to rural women. This includes the clients of their agencies; International Conference on Women in Agri- culture convened in Melbourne in 1994, and (ii) increasing women’s participation in deci- the National Forum on Rural Women con- sion making in the sector; vened in Canberra in 1995. (iii) options for increased support to rural . Rural women regularly debate issues of con- women; and cern to them through women’s gatherings held (iv) future research directions. in the States and Territories, supported by the (9) Government agencies in the Commonwealth, Rural Women’s Networks of the Departments States and Territories have agreed to develop a of Agriculture in individual States. National Action Plan on Women in Agriculture and (7a) Rural women’s concerns are heard in many Resource Management, which will provide a forums within the Department of Primary Industries framework for service delivery to and consultation and Energy as well as by the Government as a with women. This will include strategies for action whole, as indicated in the reply provided by my or improved practice in: colleague Senator Newman: - Supporting women as managers of change; . The Commonwealth Department of Primary - Rural women in decision making; Industries and Energy (DPIE) works closely with the national heads of rural women’s non- - Communication; government organisations, including the - Design and delivery of policy, programs and Country Women’s Association, the Foundation services; and 5718 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

- Access to appropriate information, education (14) Does current Commonwealth legislation and training. allow for on-site reprocessing and or long term The DPIE Secretary’s Advisory Group on Rural waste storage at Lucas Heights. Women will participate in setting directions for the (15) Does the Government consider there is a agency on issues arising from the Forum. Following safe way to transport radioactive material; if so: (a) the Forum, individual State and Territory agencies how; and (b) has this been done in Australia since will also collaborate in strategic action at a local 1990; if so, can a list be provided of all occasions level. on which radioactive material has been transported. Lucas Heights Nuclear Reactor (16) (a) In its recent environmental impact study (EIS) into the Proposed Nuclear Waste Non- (Question No. 633) proliferation Policy Concerning Foreign Research Reactor Spent Fuel, did the United States Depart- Senator Stott Despoja asked the Minister ment of Energy (USDOE) describe the waste to be representing the Minister for Science and returned to Australia as high level waste; (b) does Technology, upon notice, on 18 June 1997: ANSTO insist that it is intermediate level waste; (1) What extra monies have been provided to (c) what information does ANSTO have that the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organi- USDOE does not have in making this claim; and sation (ANSTO) in the 1997-98 budget. (d) why is there a difference in the claims. (2) What is this extra money to be used for. (17) (a) Is the Minister aware that the USDOE EIS suggests the reprocessing of high enriched (3) How many spent fuel rods are presently uranium fuel rods is actively discouraged by the US stored at Lucas Heights. Government as being contrary to it aims of nuclear (4) How long before the storage capacity at non-proliferation as it adds to the world’s stockpile Lucas Heights is reached. of recovered weapons grade material; and (b) what (5) What will be done with spent fuel rods when is the Government’s policy of increasing the the Lucas Heights storage capacity is reached. stockpile of weapons grade material. (6) What is the expected life of the Lucas (18) What does the Government propose to do Heights reactor; (b) what would it cost to extend with the radioactive material from the spent fuel the life of the High Flux Australian Reactor rods transported to the United Kingdom for repro- (HIFAR); and (b) by how long can the HIFAR life cessing. be extended. (19) Can the Government provide an absolute guarantee that radioactive material from spent fuel (7) What measures has the Government taken to rods from Lucas Heights will not be used in review the safety and function of the Lucas Heights weapons. reactor. (20) (a) What are the flight limits over and (8) Does the Government have any proposals as adjacent to a nuclear reactor; and (b) how would to what will replace the Lucas Heights reactor. these laws, if any, fit in with the Holsworthy (9) Has a need been established for a replace- airport, northern option. ment reactor, in view of the 1993 report of the (21) (a) What actions has the Government taken Research Reactor Review which said that a case following the recommendations and conditions set had not been made. out in the Research Reactor Review; (b) have all (10) (a) Is "synroc" a presently viable form of the recommendations and "onerous" conditions of radioactive waste storage; and (b) has "synroc" the Research Reactor Review been complied with; been tested commercially or technically anywhere if not: (i) which recommendations have been in the world. complied with, and (ii) why have the other recom- (11) Does the Government propose to send spent mendations not been complied with. fuel rods overseas for reprocessing. (22) If the go ahead for a new reactor is given, (12) Is the Government considering building a how would the siting selection be dealt with. new reactor, like the one at Lucas Heights, in (23) Would the Commonwealth be obliged to Australia; if so, what would its size, power and carry out an EIS on a selected site; if not, will the type be. Government provide a guarantee that it will carry (13) Is the Government considering building a out an environmental impact statement on the reprocessing plant in Australia; if so: (a) how much selected site. will this cost; (b) what would the cost of a "synroc" (24) Would the criteria for site selection be at plant be; and (c) would such a plant be in addition least as stringent as that which took place for the to the "synroc" demonstration plant at present at the low level waste repository at present under review Lucas Heights site. by the Department of Resources and Energy. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5719

Senator Ellison—The Minister for Science With regard to function, ANSTO’s activities and Technology has provided the following were refocussed recently as a result of the ANSTO answer to the honourable senator’s question: Mission Review which was undertaken by interna- tional consultants in 1994. (1) $9.1 million. (8) The Government is currently considering (2) The money is to be used for implementation options for an ongoing research reactor capability of a strategy for interim relief for the storage of in Australia. However, no decisions have been spent nuclear fuel at Lucas Heights. taken at this stage. (3) As at 30 June 1997, there were 1603 HIFAR (9) The report of the RRR provides a useful spent fuel elements in storage at Lucas Heights. In background for Government decisions on the addition, there were some 27 spent fuel elements question of an on-going research reactor capability that had been discharged from the reactor and were in Australia, but its recommendations and condi- being held in reactor operational facilities pending tions are not pre-requisites for those decisions. The standard cooling periods and cropping operations RRR did not say in its report in 1993 that a case preparatory to their eventual transfer to storage. had not been made for a replacement reactor. It (4) Around one year. accepted that the Government might want to make (5) The Government is currently considering a positive decision about a new reactor for national options for providing storage relief at Lucas interest reasons. It also gave conditional approval Heights to ensure that storage capacity is not for a positive decision after about five years (see reached. also response to part 21(b), below). (6) The life expectancy of the HIFAR reactor has (10) (a) Yes. not been determined. International consultants, (b) Synroc has been tested in a number of count- commissioned by the Department of Industry, ries, and is widely recognised as a highly effective Science and Tourism, are currently undertaking a medium for the long term immobilisation of study to identify which of the reactor’s main radioactive waste. However, as yet, it has not been components are life-limiting, and whether or not a used commercially. significant life extension would be possible. Should (11) This is one of the options which the a significant life extension be possible, the Nuclear Government has under consideration at present. Safety Bureau has made it clear that it would not authorise the operation of HIFAR beyond around (12) The Government is considering options for 2003 unless the reactor’s safety systems were the future of neutron science and technology in upgraded. For scientific and operational reasons, a Australia. If it were to decide on a new research more extensive upgrading would be necessary, reactor, the Government would seek a small reactor involving reactor neutron beam and radioisotope of a modern design. Details would depend on the production systems also. The cost would depend on bid of the successful tenderer against the required the extent of the work which was undertaken. technical specifications. (7) The Government is satisfied with the safety (13) This is one of the options which the and function of the Lucas Heights reactor. Government has under consideration at present. A plant to process spent nuclear fuel in Australia The Safety Review Committee oversees all would be functional only if it included a facility to matters relating to safety on ANSTO’s site, while immobilise intermediate level radioactive waste the Nuclear Safety Bureau is responsible for products. That facility would be a synroc plant. The monitoring and reviewing the safety of HIFAR and cost, including the synroc plant, would be depend- other nuclear plant. These bodies were established ent upon the outcome of design studies, and a under the ANSTO Act 1987, and their annual competitive tendering process. The existing synroc reports to Parliament show that HIFAR operates demonstration plant uses only non-radioactive simu- safely for its staff and the public. lants of waste to develop and test process technolo- This view was supported by the Research gies for application to a variety of waste streams. Reactor Review (RRR) which, in 1993, concluded It will continue to be used as long as it serves a that HIFAR operates safely by an adequate margin, useful purpose in developing these technologies. well within international safety standards. Hence, the synroc component of a spent fuel On the recommendation of the RRR, the previous processing plant would be separate from, and in Government agreed that a probabilistic safety addition to, the present plant. assessment would be undertaken to provide, among (14) Current Commonwealth legislation allows other things, additional assessments of safety to for on-site reprocessing and long term waste further reassure the public of the reactor’s safety. storage at Lucas Heights. However, reprocessing International consultants, commissioned by the would be subject to a permit being issued under the Department of Industry, Science and Tourism, are provisions of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation (Safe- currently undertaking this study. guards) Act 1987. 5720 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

(15) Yes. Transportation can be undertaken thereby reducing Australia’s stockpile of this safely if the relevant international and national sensitive strategic material. standards are satisfied. National standards are (18) It will be many years before the return of applied in all Commonwealth, State and Territory the intermediate level radioactive waste from the jurisdictions and, for many years now, radioactive spent fuel rods which were processed in the United materials have been transported safely throughout Kingdom last year. The precise management Australia on a daily basis, in accordance with these arrangements will need to be addressed closer to standards. Many of the flights which leave Sydney the event. each day, for example, carry packages of radioac- tive materials as part of their cargoes. Since 1990, Nevertheless, at this stage, Australia does not more than 250,000 packages of radioactive materi- have a national storage facility for intermediate als have been transported within Australia in the level radioactive waste. The Government’s response Commonwealth jurisdiction alone. It is not practi- to the report of the Senate Select Committee on the cable to list the occasions when radioactive materi- Dangers of Radioactive Waste accepted, in princi- als have been transported in Australia in this ple, the Committee’s recommendation for a national period. above ground storage facility for long lived inter- mediate level waste which is not suitable for near- (16) The recent environmental impact statement surface disposal. The waste to be returned from the (EIS) of the United States Department of Energy United Kingdom is of this type. Establishment of (USDOE) on the Return of Foreign Research such a storage facility will be raised with the Reactor Spent Fuel did not say that high level Commonwealth/State Consultative Committee on waste would be returned to Australia. The EIS Radioactive Waste Management. Consideration will makes it clear that, if spent fuel rods were repatriat- be given to the possible co-location of the storage ed to the United States, no radioactive waste would facility with a national near-surface repository for be returned to Australia. low level and short-lived intermediate level radio- active waste. (17) (a) Yes. However, the US Government has (19) Full international safeguards arrangements decided to continue to reprocess in excess of 188 would apply to uranium recovered from the pro- tonnes of aluminium-clad research reactor fuel from cessing of the Lucas Heights spent fuel rods. US and Taiwanese reactors which has deteriorated Among other things, these arrangements ensure that too far to continue to be stored safely over the next uranium is not diverted from civil to military uses. decade. Reprocessing is considered by the US All other radioactive materials would be retained Government to be the most appropriate technology in the waste stream. for stabilising this material (see DOE/EIS-0220, October 1995, Interim Management of Nuclear (20) (a) The flight limits around the reactor at Materials (IMNM) EIS; decision was announced by Lucas Heights apply within a radius of one nautical USDOE on 19 December 1995). Also, the EIS to mile (1.85 kilometres) around the reactor and below which Senator Stott Despoja refers makes explicit an altitude of 2000 ft. provision for the option of reprocessing the foreign (b) In developing the design for the Holsworthy research reactor fuel returned to the United States airport, northern option, the Department of Trans- under the return of spent fuel policy. port and Regional Development has taken account of the flight limits around the reactor. (b) The Government is in agreement with the (21) (a) The Government has been keeping under thrust of the US Government’s policy. Neverthe- review the recommendations and conditions set out less, the spent fuel rods in storage at Lucas Heights in the report of the Research Reactor Review cannot be stored indefinitely, as their aluminium (RRR). cladding may corrode leading to the escape of radioactive material. The most responsible way of (b) The RRR was established by the previous conditioning these rods for the long term is to Government and reported to it. The report, in 1993, extract the uranium, which is re-useable as either recognised that the Government might want to reactor fuel or for radiopharmaceutical production, make a positive decision about a new reactor for and to encapsulate the waste in a form which is the same reasons and in the same way as it does suitable for ongoing storage or disposal. If a plant for defence and other national interest issues. It were to be established in Australia to process the also said that there was no need to make a final spent fuel, it would be subject to the strictest decision immediately, and it set out a number of international safeguards regimes. Indeed, the conditions which it considered, if satisfied, would continued stockpiling by Australia of spent high make it appropriate for a positive decision to be enriched uranium (HEU) fuel rods could appear to made on a new reactor after about five years. other countries to be contrary to our strong stance In its response to the report, the previous on nuclear non-proliferation. Reprocessing would Government said that it broadly accepted the make it possible to consume the HEU by recycling, RRR’s findings. It kept HIFAR operating, and it Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5721 provided funding for the probabilistic safety technetium-99m will not be practical in the assessment of HIFAR which is now nearing foreseeable future; completion. It also accepted that a final decision on . the fourth condition related to strong and replacing HIFAR should be deferred for about five diverse applications of neutron scattering. years. Between 1993 and 1996, the number of uni- However, the previous Government did not versity research projects using HIFAR in- endorse the recommendation that work be com- creased by about two-thirds. Access to the key menced with a view to the establishment of a high neutron scattering instruments on HIFAR was level radioactive waste repository for the manage- fully booked in 1993 and continues to be fully ment of the spent nuclear fuel generated by booked today even though data collection is HIFAR. Nor did it provide funds specifically for much faster than in 1993. Further, there has access for scientists to international advanced been a trebling in the use of overseas neutron neutron scattering facilities. scattering facilities by Australia’s top research scientists; and The present Government, also, does not accept the view of the RRR on the matter of a high level . the fifth condition was that the national in- radioactive waste repository. Given the advice of terest remains a high priority, and that con- the Nuclear Safety Bureau that a major upgrade of tinues to be the case. HIFAR’s safety systems will be required by around (22) As no decision has yet been taken on a 2003, and the lead times involved for reactor- replacement reactor, it is premature to consider related construction/refurbishment activities, the siting issues. Nevertheless, if Australia were to present Government considers a decision should be acquire a small replacement research reactor, the taken as soon as possible on the question of an on- site selected for it would need to satisfy a number going research reactor capability in Australia. of relevant technical and operational criteria. The situation regarding the conditions given in (23) Whatever decision the Government makes the report is outlined in detail in the response to about an ongoing research reactor capability, the Parliamentary Question No 561 (Hansard, 29 may actions will be subject to the requirements of the 1997). Briefly, the present position is as follows: Environment Protection (Impact of Proposals) Act 1974. The need for, and level of, any assessment . the first condition related to what the RRR under that Act will be determined in accordance saw as a need for a high level waste repository with the normal processes of the Act. to manage spent nuclear fuel. An alternative (24) See reply to part 22 (it should be noted that strategy, which will not result in the genera- the process for the selection of a national near- tion of high level radioactive waste, is being surface repository for low level and short-lived developed for the management of spent nu- intermediate level radioactive waste repository has clear fuel; not yet been completed). . the second condition related to spallation Bifenthrin Pesticide technology. This technology is still developing and, at this stage, does not meet Australia (Question No. 636) requirements for neutrons for both neutron beam science and for the production of radio- Senator Lees asked the Minister represent- isotopes. In short, the technology has not ing Minister for Primary Industries and developed significantly since 1993. The RRR Energy, upon notice, on 16 June 1997: acknowledged that even if a spallation source (1) Why is a synthetic pyrethroid called were to be acquired, a reactor would still be bifenthrin, a pesticide which is restricted for use in needed for the production of radioisotopes; the United States and known to be acutely toxic to . the third condition was that there had been no aquatic organisms, freely available in Australia. practical initiation of a cyclotron anywhere in (2) Will the availability of bifenthrin be suspend- the world to produce technetium 99-m, the ed until full ecotoxicological studies can be con- most commonly used radiopharmaceutical in ducted into its impact on aquatic organisms, nuclear medicine. The Government is not including the likelihood of poisoning by ingesting aware of the practical initiation of a cyclotron toxic sediment. anywhere in the world today to produce Senator Parer—The answer to the honour- technetium 99-m, or of any plans to do so. Indeed, the Government understands that able senator’s question is as follows: research to prove the concept has been scaled (1) and (2) Products containing bifenthrin are back considerably because results have not registered for use in Australia for underslab treat- met expectations, and the utilisation of cyclo- ment of termites, and as an insecticide in a range trons for the commercial production of of agricultural uses. Additionally, a few products 5722 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 containing very low concentrations of bifenthrin Senator Kemp—The Treasurer has provid- have been approved for use in home garden ed the following answer to the honourable applications. Assessments of full environmental senator’s question: studies, including studies involving aquatic sedi- ments, were carried out by the National Registra- (1) The Government’s position on the mutuality tion Authority for Agricultural and Veterinary principle is as set out in its response of 27 June Chemicals (NRA) prior to registration. 1997 to the Industry Commission’s report into tourism accommodation and training, namely; "The Because bifenthrin is, like other members of the Government also notes that the mutuality principle synthetic pyrethroid family of chemicals, known to is not a taxation concession but is, rather, an have relatively high aquatic toxicity, statements on application of a common law principle about the the labels of bifenthrin products specifically warn nature of income. users of this fact as a condition of registration. The range of uses and restrictions on the use of The Commissioner of Taxation has no discretion bifenthrin products are similar in Australia and the as to the applicability of the principle. Whether or USA. not it applies is decided solely on the facts of each case." As part of its normal operational systems the (2) The mutuality principle is that where persons NRA, including specialist agencies providing join together as a non-profit organisation to contri- technical assessment, keep abreast of the latest bute to a common fund created and controlled by developments in relation to all chemicals registered them for a common purpose, any receipts that can with it. There is currently no evidence to warrant be properly identified as being paid in that regard the suspension of products containing bifenthrin. are not treated as income for tax purposes. Any other receipts will be taxable as income unless the Registered Clubs: Taxation Exemption organisation has a statutory income tax exemption. The question of whether marketing activities are (Question No. 637) consistent with this test is a matter for the Commis- Senator Murray asked the Minister repre- sioner of Taxation. senting the Treasurer, upon notice, on 18 June (3) (a) I was not aware of this. (b) As noted 1997: above, the test under the mutuality principle is whether members of the clubs in question have With reference to a news report carried on contributed to a common fund created and con- Channel Ten, Sydney, on 21 May 1997, which trolled by them for a common purpose. Again, the featured an interview with the Manager of the issue of whether attendance by club officials at the Penrith Panthers Club, Mr Roger Cowan, and World Gaming Expo is consistent with this test is Senator Murray’s adjournment speech of 5 March a matter for the Commissioner of Taxation. 1997: Ningaloo Marine Park (1) In light of the threats by the club to cancel support for charities and sporting organisations, and (Question No. 638) in view of the club’s reported revenues in excess Senator Murray asked the Minister for the of $80 million for 1996, is it the intention of the Environment, upon notice, on 18 June 1997: Federal Government to review the mutuality principle which provides tax exemption on so- (1) Is the Minister aware of reports of reduced called member income for clubs such as these. whale shark numbers in 1997 in the joint Common- wealth/Western Australian Government managed (2) Will the Minister, in light of the historical Ningaloo Marine Park. basis for the tax exempt status accorded to club (2) How many licences has the Western Austral- member income under the mutuality principle, ian Department of Conservation and Land Manage- advise how marketing activities at a gaming ment (CALM) issued to local dive operators in conference in Las Vegas in 1996 undertaken by the 1997. club using the name ‘Panthers World of Entertainment’, can be of benefit to Australian (3) How many dive operators were operating sporting and charitable organisations in the Penrith before CALM issued licences. area. (4) What process did CALM undertake to make its decision about the number of licences to offer. (3) (a) Is the Minister aware of the attendance of approximately 1,000 officials of registered clubs at (5) What factors did CALM consider when the World Gaming Expo in Las Vegas in 1996; and making its decision about the number of licences (b) how is such activity in maintaining tax exempt to offer. status for clubs under the mutuality principle (6) Are there any ecological studies into the regarded. impact of dive operations on whale shark popula- Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5723 tions; if so, please provide details if not, on what (2) In whose name or names is the Westpac loan did CALM base its decision. that is secured over the Camden property. (7) What involvement does the Commonwealth (3) Is the Westpac loan an interest only loan or have in the joint management of Ningaloo Marine a reducing balance loan. Park. (4) Is the loan a normal home mortgage loan or (8) Did the Commonwealth provide input or is it an investment property loan. advice into the issuing of licences to dive operators. (5) What is the name of, or what are the names (9) Does Environment Australia have eco-tourism of the registered owners of the Camden property as guidelines for dive operators. contained on the title to the property. (10) Does CALM have eco-tourism guidelines (6) Has the Westpac loan used to purchase the for dive operators. Camden property been declared in Mr Fahey’s pecuniary interest register; if not, why not. Senator Hill—The answer to the honour- (7) Has Mr Fahey complied in full with the able senator’s question is as follows: Prime Minister’s ministerial code of conduct in (1) The Department of Conservation and Land regards to all matters involving Lochreagh Invest- Management (CALM) officers at Exmouth confirm ments Pty Ltd and the Westpac loan. that the number of Whale shark sightings in the (8) Has Mr Fahey or the Government requested waters off Ningaloo have been fewer than in or received any advice from the Australian Tax- previous years. However the period over which ation Office regarding the tax implications of the these sightings have been recorded is so short that company director’s loan from Lochreagh to Mr it is not possible to draw any conclusions from Fahey in the context of the Government’s an- yearly statistics, given that natural seasonal vari- nounced changes to section 108 of the Tax Act; if ations have not yet been precisely determined. so, what was the nature of this advice. (2)-(6) & (10) The information sought by the (9) Did Mr Fahey declare to cabinet that he had honourable senator does not fall within my port- an interest in the proposed changes to section 108 folio responsibilities. They are a matter for the of the Tax Act by virtue of having a private Western Australian Government. company’s director’s loan from Lochreagh to (7) Under the terms of a Memorandum of himself. Understanding, signed in September 1994 by the (10) Why did it take Mr Fahey until December Director of National Parks and Wildlife, CALM 1996 to have Lochreagh reinstated with the Austral- and WA Fisheries, the day to day management of ian Securities Commission after it was deregistered the Ningaloo Marine Park is undertaken by CALM in December 1992. officers. Under the terms of the MOU, the joint (11) Did Mr Fahey as a director of Lochreagh management process, including a level of funding receive any official correspondence during the input from the Commonwealth, is implemented period 1986 to 1992 notifying him that annual through the Ningaloo Marine Park Liaison Commit- returns for Lochreagh were outstanding; if so, what tee, which meets at six monthly intervals to coordi- action did he take in regard to receiving that nate the management functions of the Ningaloo correspondence. Marine Park. (12) How does the personal repayment of the (8) No. loan to Westpac in regard to the Camden property (9) No. There is no recreational diving activity negate Mr Fahey’s legal responsibility under both undertaken in the Commonwealth Waters area of the Tax Act and the Corporations Law to repay the the Ningaloo Marine Park. company director’s loan from Lochreagh to him- self. Minister for Finance (13) When was the company director’s loan (Question No. 642) granted from Lochreagh to Mr Fahey and on what basis was it given. Senator Sherry asked the Minister repre- (14) Was the private company director’s loan senting the Minister for Finance, upon notice, from Lochreagh to Mr Fahey approved by all on 19 June 1997: shareholders and directors at the time of the granting of the loan or was it a unilateral decision With reference to interests held by the made by Mr Fahey. Minister for Finance (Mr Fahey): (15) Do any documented company records exist (1) What was the date when the loan from by way of a loan agreement or company minutes Westpac was drawn down in order to facilitate the approving the private company director’s loan to purchase of the Camden property. Mr Fahey; if not, why not. 5724 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

(16) Was the granting of the company director’s adjustments for an overpayment in 1996-97 and an loan to Mr Fahey an arms length transaction. underpayment in 1995-96), an increase of $9.3 (17) Is the company director’s loan from million on 1996-97. As shown on page 51 of 1997- Lochreagh to Mr Fahey on a fully commercial basis 98 Budget Paper No. 2, this represents an estimated and does Mr Fahey pay a commercial rate of saving of $14.7 million in 1997-98 against the interest on that loan. forward estimates. Senator Kemp—The Minister for Finance The provision of general purpose assistance to local government is linked to the provision of has provided the following answer to the financial assistance grants to the States and Terri- honourable senator’s questions: tories through the Local Government (Financial I made a statement in relation to this loan some Assistance) Act 1995. This Act provides for the months ago. increase in general purpose assistance to local The Lochreagh loan to me has been repaid government to be determined in line with the through the assumption by me of Lochreagh’s debt underlying movement in general revenue assistance to Westpac. provided to the States and Territories. In 1997-98 the increase in general purpose assistance to local For ten years, I have paid Lochreagh’s loan at government will be more commensurate with trends the rate of $344 a month and will continue to do in general revenue assistance provided to the States so while my mother is alive and capable of inde- taking into account the fiscal contributions which pendent living. the States are making to the Commonwealth. Records in respect of Lochreagh Investments Nevertheless, local government will continue to be with the ASC are up-to-date. relatively well treated by the Commonwealth. The loan is a commercial loan, larger than the (2) Under the Agreement to Implement the loan to myself. I am repaying it and have repaid it National Competition Policy and Related Reforms, for a decade at bank Commercial Interest rates. the Commonwealth agreed to maintain the real per capita guarantee of the State financial assistance Federal Financial Assistance Grants: grants pool on a rolling three year basis, subject to Funding Cuts the States meeting their obligations under the Agreement. The Agreement states that local (Question No. 652) government will benefit from the link between the Senator Allison asked the Minister repre- State and local government financial assistance senting the Treasurer, upon notice, on 20 June grants pools. The Government’s determination of 1997: the 1997-98 general purpose assistance entitlement for local government is in accordance with this link (1) Why were the Federal Financial Assistance as established by the Local Government (Financial Grants (FAGs) to local government cut by $15 Assistance) Act 1995. This link does not require million in the 1997-98 federal budget and by $60 that changes in local government funding be in million over the next 4 years. direct proportion to changes in the State financial (2) Does this mean that the 1995 Council of assistance grants but, as noted above, that they be Australian Government’s agreement to implement in line with the underlying movement in general national competition policy, which states ‘the revenue assistance provided to the States and Commonwealth will maintain the real per capita Territories. guarantee of the FAGs pool’, no longer applies. (3) The decision relating to local government (3) What consultation and negotiation took place general purpose assistance was taken in the 1997- with local government prior to the budget an- 98 Budget context. Consistent with the nature of nouncement. budget decisions, the measure was not discussed (4) What financial benefit will local government with local government prior to the Budget an- in Victoria, for instance, derive from the Common- nouncement. wealth by implementing compulsory competitive (4) Local government will not derive financial tendering. benefits from the Commonwealth by implementing compulsory competitive tendering. However, local Senator Kemp—The Treasurer has provid- governments are generally likely to benefit due to ed the following answer to the honourable better value for money outcomes where they senator’s question: participate in a competitive tendering process. (1) In 1997-98, the general purpose assistance The Competition Principles Agreement (CPA) entitlement for local government will be increased provides that principles set out in the CPA will in line with the Consumer Price Index and hence apply to local government, although they are not be maintained in real terms. The estimated entitle- parties to the Agreement. Each State and Territory ment for 1997-98 is $1,213 million (excluding is responsible for applying the principles to local Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5725 government. The CPA does not refer to State or made submissions. In addition, the Commission local government participation in competitive gathered information from visits and published tendering. However, governments choosing to reports. undertake competitive tendering must do so in a (3) The Commission held seven days of public manner consistent with the principles of competi- hearings. This does not include the round table tive neutrality. discussions arranged with key participants for Passenger Motor Vehicle Inquiry which public transcripts are also available. (Question No. 656) (4) The Commission considered that the econom- ic model used in the automotive inquiry should: Senator Murray asked the Minister repre- . be based on a highly disaggregated industry senting the Treasurer, upon notice, on 23 June structure to capture detailed industry linkages; 1997: . include the economy’s adjustment path over (1) What was the cost of the passenger motor time to tariff proposals; vehicle inquiry to the Productivity Commissioner. . be capable of disaggregating the economy (2) How many witnesses gave evidence. wide effects of tariff reductions down to the (3) How many days of hearings were involved. State level; and (4) What process was employed to tender for . be able to be fully documented, allowing for outside consultants to provide advice on the greater transparency. economic modelling undertaken by the Commis- The only computable, general equilibrium model sion. available in Australia that satisfies these criteria is (5) How much was paid to these consultants. the MONASH model, developed by the Centre of (6) Are those consultants being used again in the Policy Studies at Monash University. For this textiles, clothing and footwear inquiry. reason, the Commission contracted the Centre of Policy Studies to provide economic modelling for (7) What process of selection was undertaken the automotive inquiry. The lack of suitable resulting in the same consultants being selected. alternative models prevented the Commission from (8) What staff assistance was provided to Mr Ian tendering out this work. The Commission was able Webber to enable him to prepare his dissenting to consider also three other modelling submissions, opinion. as well as critiques submitted on modelling. (9) Can a complete list of the names and address- (5) The Commission paid $46 000 to the Centre es of all participants in the inquiry be provided. of Policy Studies for the economic modelling work Senator Kemp—The Treasurer has provid- done for the automotive inquiry. ed the following answer to the honourable (6) The Commission has also contracted the senator’s question : Centre of Policy Studies to provide economic modelling for the textiles, clothing and footwear I am advised by the Industry Commission that inquiry. the answers to the senator’s questions are as follows: (7) The same criteria as those used for the automotive inquiry guided the selection of econom- (1) The Industry Commission has preliminary ic models for the textiles, clothing and footwear inquiry cost estimates available at present. (Final inquiry. In addition, given the concentration of the accounting will be reported in the usual way in the TCF industry in some regional areas, the Commis- Annual Report.) The preliminary estimate of the sion considered it would be desirable if the model non-salary expenditure of the automotive inquiry is could disaggregate the national effects of tariff $204 700, which includes travel, printing, consul- reductions down to a regional level. Only the tants and other costs. Expenditure on salaries and MONASH model could meet all these criteria, and fees is estimated to be $793 000 (preliminary for this reason, the Commission was not in a figure). position to tender out this work. (2) The Commission received evidence from 173 (8) It is a common practice for the Commission participants: to provide research and secretarial support for all . 152 organisations made submissions; Commissioners, including where Commissioners . 54 organisations attended public hearings; and wish to express different views in inquiry reports. In accordance with this practice, the Chairman of . 47 organisations attended round table discus- the Industry Commission offered to assist Mr Ian sions. Webber in the development of his minority report. Most of the organisations that gave evidence at Mr Webber declined the Chairman’s offer. All public hearings or round table discussions also Commissioners were given successive working 5726 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 drafts of material prepared in response to their The Commission also held informal discussions comments. with organisations, companies and individuals to (9) A complete list of the names of all parties gain background information and to assist in setting who made submissions, or gave evidence at round an agenda for the inquiry. Those visited by the tables and public hearings is provided in Appendix Commission are listed in Section A.3. A of the Commission’s final automotive report The trade union movement declined the personal (copy attached). offer made by the Chairman of the Commission to Many participants have provided their address on be involved in the inquiry. their public submission, and therefore their address Due to inquiry time constraints, the Commission- is already in the public domain. For privacy ers convened a number of round table discussions, reasons, the Commission would normally seek the rather than holding public hearings to gather permission of other participants prior to divulging information for the draft report. These discussions their addresses. The Commission will facilitate enabled the Commissioners to exchange views with access to this level of detail if required. small groups of key industry members on major A. CONDUCT OF THE INQUIRY issues. A transcript of the round tables was kept and made publicly available to maintain the A.1 Introduction transparency of the Commission’s processes. Round This Appendix outlines the inquiry process and table participants are listed in Section A.4. the organisations and individuals that participated The Commission held public hearings in Sydney, in the inquiry. Melbourne and Adelaide in late February and early On 12 August 1996 the Commission received the March 1997, and received evidence from 54 terms of reference for this inquiry into the Austral- organisations. A list of the parties that gave evi- ian automotive industry. The reference directed the dence at the public hearings is provided in Section Commission to report within nine months on A.5. A transcript of the public hearings was made assistance arrangements for the automotive industry publicly available. from January 2000. The reference also asked the The Commission engaged the Centre of Policy Commission to report on a number of other matters, Studies/Impact project at Monash University to including the potential for further development of assist it in modelling the economic effects of past the industry, and measures which could be under- and future developments in the automotive industry. taken to remove impediments or otherwise contri- No other consultants were engaged. bute to the industry’s efficiency. The full terms of The Treasurer agreed to a two week extension of reference are reproduced on page XVIII. the reporting date for the inquiry to 26 May 1997, Following receipt of the terms of reference, the following a request by the Commission’s Chairman, Commission placed a notice in the national press Mr Bill Scales. At that time the Commission was inviting public participation in the inquiry and still waiting on the results of three separate model- released an issues paper to assist participants in ling studies of the effects of proposed automotive preparing their submissions. The Commission industry tariff reductions. Given the high profile received 92 submissions prior to the draft report, that some participants had placed on economic and an additional 114 submissions following the modelling, and given the late delivery of the draft report. A list of the parties that made submis- studies, extra time was needed to thoroughly sions is provided in Section A.2. evaluate the various models.

A.2 Submissions received

Participant Submission No. Access Economics Pty Ltd 201 Adelaide Hills Toyota 21 Aiken, C 160 Air International Group Ltd 37 Aircar Industry 123 Albon, R 179 AME Systems Pty Ltd (formerly Ararat Manufacturing Enterprises) 9, 136 ARB Corporation Ltd 12 Association of Motoring Clubs Inc. 24, 168 Association of Veteran Car Clubs in Australia 198 Australian Automobile Association 49, 126 Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5727

Participant Submission No. Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association Ltd 68 Australian Automotive Air Pty Ltd 194 Australian Business Chamber 162 Australian Chamber of Manufactures 44, 133, 164 Australian Die Casting Association 85 Australian Fleet Managers Association Inc. 170 Australian Historic Motoring Federation Inc. 27, 103 Australian Quality Council 36 Australian Tyre Manufacturers’ Association 56, 120, 175 Automotive Training Australia Ltd 82 Barford, A 95 Bendix Mintex Pty Ltd 72 BHP Steel 77 Bishop,AE&Associates Pty Ltd 16 BMW Australia Ltd 73 Boxer, L 152 Bridgestone Australia Ltd—Automotive Components Division 23 Brigestone Australia Ltd—Tyre Division 62 BTR Automotive Engineering Group 53 Caldecott, J 97 Calsonic Australia Pty Ltd 41 Calum Australia Pty Ltd 130 Capral Aluminium 188 Castalloy Manufacturing Pty Ltd 10 Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Western Australia 178 Cities of Kingston, Greater Dandenong and Monash 166 City of Elizabeth 66 City of Elizabeth, City of Hindmarsh and Woodville, City of 58 Marion, City of Mitcham, City of Noarlunga, City of Salisbury, Southern Development Board Adelaide and Southern Region of Councils (Joint Submission) City of Greater Geelong 39, 112, 199 City of Hindmarsh and Woodville 79 City of Hume 171 City of Marion 59, 156 City of Mitcham 69 City of Noarlunga 47 City of Salisbury 51 Commonwealth Department of Environment, Sport and Territories 94 Council of ACT Motor Clubs Inc. 87 Cronin, M 139 Deakin University 186 Delphi Automotive Systems 18 Denso Australia Group 80, 173 Dier, K 109 Disc Brakes Australia 4 Douglas, B 124 Engineering Employers Association, South Australia 147 Environment Protection Authority, New South Wales 74 Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries—Importers Group 46, 135 5728 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Participant Submission No. Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries—Manufacturers Group 33 Federal Office of Road Safety 35, 141 Federation of Automotive Product Manufacturers 48, 145, 176, 189, 196 Federation of Historic Motoring Clubs South Australia Inc. 125 Findlay,RK,PtyLtd 31 Ford Motor Company of Australia Ltd 14, 107, 153, 203 Gallus, C, MHR, Member for Hindmarsh 143, 157 Geelong Chamber of Commerce 13, 113 General Motors—Holden’s Automotive Ltd 19, 111, 138 Gooley, D 83 GUD Manufacturing Company Pty Ltd 55 Hampshire, D 20, 180 Hella Australia Pty Ltd 11 Honda Australia Pty Ltd 32, 99 ICI Australia Operations Pty Ltd 81 Institution of Engineers, Australia 134 International Trucks Australia Ltd (Iveco) 26 Jarrad, P 177 Jeanes, S, MHR, Member for Kingston 28, 182 Johnson Matthey Ltd 42, 110, 184 Kamaralli, A 60, 98 King, P J Pty Ltd 187 Lear Corporation Australia Pty Ltd 84, 150 Marplex Australia Ltd 25, 122, 161 Marsden & McGain 154 McArthur, S, MHR, Member for Corangamite 52 McCann, R 78 McDonald, N 7 MHG Plastic Industries Pty Ltd 67 Millett, J 174 Ministry of Commerce, New Zealand 90 Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd 2, 34, 104, 204 MtM Pty Ltd 96 National Consolidated Limited 38, 105 National Institute of Labour Studies Inc. 202 National Road Transport Commission 191 New South Wales Government 205 New Zealand Automotive Component Manufacturers’ Federation 89, 128 Nissan Motor Company (Australia) Pty Ltd 88, 129 NRMA Ltd 117, 193 O’Connor, G, MHR, Member for Corio 93 Pacific BBA Ltd 92 Parry, R 108 People for Ecologically Sustainable Transport 131 Performance Industries 149 Pilkington (Australia) Ltd 50 Pioneer Electronics Australia Pty Ltd, Alpine Electronics of Aus- 197 tralia Pty Ltd, Eurovox Pty Ltd, Philips Electronics Australia Limited and Fujitsu Ten (Australia) Pty Ltd PolyPacific Pty Ltd 115, 172 Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5729

Participant Submission No. Pratt, Sohal & Schroder 1 Pratt, T & Schroder, R 17 Premier of Queensland 43 Price, Associate Professor J 102 Rann, M, MP, SA State Labor Leader 146, 206 Robert Bosch (Australia) Pty Ltd 65, 140, 158, 183 ROH Steel Wheel Co. 185 Royal Automobile Association of South Australia Inc. 144 Royal Automobile Club of Victoria Ltd 45 Smalley, C. 195 Society for Balanced Trade Inc. 100, 151 Society of Automotive Engineers—Australasia 116 South Australian Centre for Economic Studies 167 South Australian Development Council 91, 148 South Australian Employers’ Chamber of Commerce & Industry 76, 155 Inc. South Australian Government 61, 142, 163, 169, 200 South Australian Multicultural and Ethnic Affairs Commission 40 South Pacific Tyres 57, 118 Southcott, A, MHR, Member for Boothby 127 Southern Development Board Adelaide 71, 132, 159 Southern Region of Councils Inc. 70, 132 Standard & Poor’s 6 Starrs, M 165 Suzuki Motor Corporation 114, 190 Taxi Combined Services Pty Ltd 30 Thomas, J 121 Thomson, K, MHR, Member for Wills 101 Tooling Industry Forum of Australia (Victoria) 54 Toyota Motor Corporation Australia Ltd 15, 106 Trico Pty Ltd 22 Utilux Pty Ltd 29 Vehicle Importers & Converters Association of Australia Inc. 63 Venture Asia Pacific Pty Ltd 8 Victoria’s Golden Regional Development Organisation Inc. 75 Victorian ALP 119 Victorian Government 64, 192 Viney, J 5 Wainwright, P 3 Woollett, G 181 Wyatt & Associates 137 A.3 Visits Australian Capital Territory Australian Customs Service Commonwealth Department of Environment, Sports and Territories Commonwealth Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Commonwealth Department of Primary Industries and Energy Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries 5730 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Participant Submission No. Federal Office of Road Safety Federation of Automotive Product Manufacturers Motor Trades Association of Australia South Australia Arrowcrest Group Pty Ltd (ROH) Bridgestone Australia Ltd Britax Rainsfords Pty Ltd City of Elizabeth City of Hindmarsh and Woodville City of Marion City of Mitcham City of Noarlunga General Motors—Holden’s Automotive Ltd Lear Seating Australia Pty Ltd Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd Monroe Australia Pty Ltd South Australian Government Southern Development Board Adelaide Southern Region of Councils Inc Victoria Automotive Components Limited Air International Group Ltd Australian Chamber of Manufactures BHP Steel BTR Automotive Engineering Group Denso Manufacturing Australia Pty Ltd Everco Wiring Systems Ford Motor Company of Australia Ltd General Motors—Holden’s Automotive Ltd Hella Australia Pty Ltd Henderson’s Automotive Group Mazda Australia Pty Limited Melba Kawashima Pty Ltd Nissan Australia Pty Ltd PBR Automotive Pty Ltd Pilkington (Australia) Ltd—Automotive Division Robert Bosch (Australia) Pty Ltd Toyota Motor Corporation Australia Ltd VDO Instruments Australia Pty Ltd Victorian Government New South Wales Bishop, A. E. & Associates Pty Ltd Daewoo Automotive Australia Pty Ltd Disc Brakes Australia Harrington,GA&LPtyLtd Inchcape Motors Australia Volvo Car Australia Pty Ltd Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5731

Participant Submission No.

A.4 Round table participants Round table 1: Adelaide, 30 September 1996 Britax Rainsfords Pty Ltd Castalloy Ltd Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries Federation of Automotive Products Manufacturers General Motors—Holden’s Automotive Ltd Lear Seating Australia Pty Ltd Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd Monroe Australia Pty Ltd Round table 2: Sydney, 1 October 1996 BMW Australia Ltd Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries Honda Australia Pty Ltd Hyundai Automotive Distributors Kia and Asia Motors (Australia) Pty Ltd Mazda Australia Pty Ltd Mercedes-Benz (Australia) Pty Ltd Nissan Motor Company (Australia) Ltd Rover Australia Pty Ltd Round table 3: Melbourne, 9 October 1996 Air International Group Ltd Automotive Components Ltd Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries Federation of Automotive Products Manufacturers Ford Motor Company of Australia Ltd Toyota Motor Corporation Australia Ltd Victorian Automotive Chamber of Commerce Round table 4: Melbourne, 10 October 1996 Australian Automobile Association Australian Automotive Intelligence Australian Consumers Association Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries Federal Office of Road Safety Federation of Automotive Products Manufacturers NRMA Limited Royal Automobile Club of Victoria Ltd Round table 5: Melbourne, 10 October 1996 Advanced Engineering Centre for Manufacturing Automotive Training Australia Deakin University John Batman College of TAFE Society of Automotive Engineers Australasia Technisearch—RMIT 5732 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Participant Submission No.

Round table 6: Melbourne, 14 October 1996 Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association Australian Automotive Export Group Australian Tyre Manufacturers’ Association BTR Engineering (Australia) Ltd Denso Manufacturing Australia Pty Ltd Everco Wiring Systems Hella Australia Pty Ltd Henderson’s Automotive Group Johnson Matthey Ltd PBR Automotive Pty Ltd Robert Bosch (Australia) Pty Ltd VDO Instruments Australia Pty Ltd A.5 Public hearing participants Aiken, C Aircar Industry AME Systems Pty Ltd Association of Motoring Clubs in Victoria Australian Automobile Association Australian Chamber of Manufactures Australian Tyre Manufacturers’ Association Bridgestone Australia Ltd BTR Automotive Engineering Group Caldecott, J Calum Australia Pty Ltd City of Greater Geelong City of Marion Cutbush-Sabine, Professor Dier, K Engineering Employers Association, South Australia Federation of Automotive Products Manufacturers Ford Motor Company of Australia Ltd Gallus, C, MHR, Member for Hindmarsh Geelong Chamber of Commerce General Motors—Holden’s Automotive Ltd Johnson Matthey Ltd Lear Corporation Australia Pty Ltd Marplex Australia Ltd Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd National Consolidated Ltd New Zealand Automotive Component Manufacturers’ Federation Nissan Motor Company (Australia) Pty Ltd NRMA Ltd Pacific BBA Ltd Parry, R PBR Automotive People for Ecologically Sustainable Transport Performance Industries Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5733

Participant Submission No. Pilkington (Australia) Limited PolyPacific Pty Ltd Precise Tooling Australia Robert Bosch (Australia) Pty Ltd Royal Automobile Association of South Australia Inc. Society for Balanced Trade Inc. Society of Automotive Engineers—Australasia South Australian Development Council South Australian Employers’ Chamber of Commerce and Industry Inc. South Australian Government South Pacific Tyres Southcott, A, MHR, Member for Boothby Southern Development Board Adelaide Southern Region of Councils Inc. Suzuki Motor Corporation Thomas, J Thomson, K, MHR, Member for Wills Toyota Motor Corporation Australia Ltd Victorian ALP Wyatt and Associates

Royal Adelaide Hospital: Research taken at the University of Adelaide, but it has moved to the Royal Adelaide Hospital. (Question No. 662) This animal is a small marsupial native to Senator Allison asked The Minister for Australia, which stores a large proportion of fat in the tail. Fat-tailed dunnarts used in Dr Wittert’s Employment, Education, Training and Youth research project were bred at Animal Services, Affairs, upon notice, on 25 June 1997: University of Adelaide, not obtained from the wild. (1) Is the Minister aware of research being This species is not listed as endangered or vulnera- carried out be a doctor at the Royal Adelaide ble in the Endangered Species Protection Act 1992 Hospital which involves cutting the tails off fat- Schedules 1, 2 and 3 May 1996. Two species of tailed dunnarts in an attempt to study obesity in dunnarts are on this list: the Sminthopsis douglasi humans. (Julia Creek Dunnart) is listed as endangered and the Sminthopsis psammophila (Sandhill Dunnart) (2) Is this research funded through the Australian is listed as vulnerable. Research Council (ARC); if so: (a) how much finding has been provided and in what years; (b) The research into the regulation of fat stores is does the ARC believe the research provides signifi- unique and feasible because of the characteristics cant potential medical benefit for humans; (c) what of fat-tailed dunnarts; that 25% of fat stores are in is the value to humans which is expected to be their tail. Tail removal is a fast simple procedure gained from the research; and (d) has the research performed under anaesthesia. The tail removal been evaluated as valuable and necessary by an procedure and condition of the animals has been appropriate body of peers; if so, which body did the found to be satisfactory by the veterinarian in evaluation. charge of Animal Services at the University of Adelaide. Senator Vanstone—The answer to the (2) (a)This research was funded through an honourable senator’s question is as follows: Australian Research Council (ARC) Small Grant awarded in 1996 and is currently being funded by (1) Yes, the question refers to research which is an ARC Large Grant for 1997-1999 in the Bio- being conducted by Dr G A Wittert and his team logical Sciences field of research. The funding for at the University Department of Medicine, Royal each year is as follows: Adelaide Hospital. Dr GA Wittert is studying the regulation of food intake, energy balance and fat 1997: $55 000 storage in the Sminthopsis Crassicaudata (Fat-tailed 1998: $53 000 Dunnart). This project was originally to be under- 1999: $51 000 5734 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

(b) The ARC is funding this research because it the following answer to the honourable will provide new basic knowledge. Currently, there senator’s question. is very little information about appetite regulation in marsupials and the research will provide integrat- (a & b) Since March 1996 the Minister has ed data about the interactions between food intake, visited three Australian National (AN) work sites, fat storage and energy balance and the mechanisms and has met AN staff in Adelaide and Port Augus- by which these occur. ta. In addition, during this time the Minister has met AN union representatives in Adelaide, Port (c) The value of the research is that it will Augusta, and Canberra. provide basic knowledge about appetite regulation in marsupials and fat tailed dunnarts as well as an While in Opposition the Minister visited a opportunity to focus international attention on number of AN work sites and facilities, and met Australian native wildlife. The proposed studies are AN staff and union representatives in Adelaide, likely to have direct application because factors that Port Augusta, and Canberra. are shown to be important for appetite in such divergent species as Sminthopsis and rodents are Hazardous Waste also likely to be involved in regulating appetite in (Question No. 668) humans. The animals are bred primarily for re- search purposes and the findings may ultimately be Senator Lees asked the Minister for the of benefit to our understanding and continued Environment, upon notice, on 26 June 1997: preservation of the species. (1) Is the Minister aware that the Indian Supreme (d) Ethics requirements for ARC grants have Court has issued a ban on the importation of all been met by the evaluation of the research by the hazardous wastes. University of Adelaide Animal Ethics Committee. (2) Is the Minister aware that this ban supersedes Initial approval for this project was given on 13 that issued in 1996 in a lower court, the Indian April 1995 and approval for the continuation of this High Court, during which period imports doubled. work at the Royal Adelaide Hospital was given by the Animal Ethics Committee on the 22 May 1997. (3) Is the Minister aware that, under the previous ban, Indian Government figures show that 565 Aside from ethical evaluation, ARC Large Grants tonnes of hazardous lead and battery waste was are also peer reviewed. The research project was exported from Australia to India. assessed as outstanding by independent assessors (both Australian) and was subsequently recom- (4) Did Environment Australia issue any hazard- mended through the relevant ARC discipline panel ous waste export permits for that period; if so, what and ultimately the ARC Research Grants Commit- were they; if not, how does the Minister account tee. for the exported waste The assessors consider that the project is interest- (5) Does the Minister undertake to respect and ing, well designed, internationally competitive and uphold the Indian Supreme Court ban on the will promote the use of a unique Australian marsu- importation of hazardous wastes. pial in research relating to the biology of fat (6) Does the Minister undertake to pay for the metabolism. Aside from examining an animal return to Australia of any hazardous waste exported model for understanding weight regulation in from Australia to India without a permit. humans, the project should provide a direct under- standing of energy balance in a marsupial unique Senator Hill—The answer to the honour- to Australia. It is relevant not just to medical able senator’s question is as follows: scientists, but to zoologists and ecologists as well. (1) Yes. Australian National (2) Whether the ban supersedes the ban in the (Question No. 664) lower court, is a matter for Indian law. I understand that the orders relate to separate cases and that it Senator Bob Collins asked the Minister is not necessarily the case that the Supreme Court representing the Minister for Transport and order supersedes the order made in the Delhi High Regional Development, upon notice, on 24 Court. June 1997: (3) I have not seen the Indian Government’s Has the Minister visited any Australian National statistics covering trade in hazardous wastes. workplaces since March 1996; if so: (a) which Australian Bureau of Statistics data indicate that in workplaces did he visit; and (b) when did those the calendar year 1996 Australian exports of lead visits take place. acid battery waste to India amounted to 110 tonnes. It is not clear whether other Australian exports of Senator Alston—The Minister for Trans- lead wastes to India would be considered hazardous port and Regional Development has provided for the purpose of the Basel Convention. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5735

(4) Since the amendments to Australia’s Hazard- in the proposed construction of the port; if so, what ous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act is that involvement. 1989 commenced on 12 December 1996, no (6) If there is any Government involvement, will permits have been issued for the export of hazard- the Minister seek to cease that involvement, in ous waste to India. Any exports prior to 12 Decem- order to protect the environment in India and ber 1996 arose because of inadequacies at that time respect its laws. in Australia’s hazardous waste laws. Exporters of battery waste were not legally obliged to seek a (7) Does an Australian Coal trading company, permit or inform the Australian Government of any Glencore Australia, have contracts to ship coal to trade in valuable hazardous recyclables and the Bombay Suburban Electricity Supply Company, Government had no legal authority to restrict or despite Supreme Court orders in India ordering the prevent these exports. The amendments to the power company to switch the relevant power Hazardous Waste Act require all exports of hazard- station to gas firing. ous waste, including hazardous wastes such as lead Senator Hill—The answer to the honour- acid battery scrap destined to recycling facilities, able senator’s question is as follows: to be granted a permit prior to shipment. (1—3) I was not aware of the matters raised in (5) Consistent with the requirements of the Basel the senator’s question. Convention, Australia will not permit the export of hazardous wastes to Parties which have prohibited (4) I understand the Department of Foreign the import of such wastes. Environment Australia Affairs and Trade has sought information regarding is currently clarifying the legal status, intent and the matters raised by the honourable senator. It scope of the Indian Supreme Court order. appears that the matters raised by the honourable (6) Any illegal exports of hazardous waste to senator are between the company and the relevant India will be dealt with in accordance with the Indian authorities. So far as I am aware, the Hazardous Waste Act. Section 35 of the Act allows Government of India has not sought any interven- the Minister for the Environment to order that the tion by the Australian Government. waste be imported to Australia. Generally, in such (5) There is no current involvement by my instances, the import costs would be met by the Portfolio. exporter concerned and not the Australian Govern- (6) Not applicable to my Portfolio. ment. (7) I am not aware of such contracts. Proposed Port Facilities; Vadhavan, India Second Sydney Airport (Question No. 671) (Question No. 676) Senator Lees asked the Minister for the Senator Murray asked the Minister for Environment, upon notice, on 26 June 1997: Transport and Regional Development, upon notice, on 27 June 1997: (1) Is the Minister aware that P&O Ports, Australia, has signed an agreement which is likely (1) Is the Government considering sites outside to lead to the construction of a major port facility the Sydney basin for construction of a second at Vadhavan. India. in an area of great environ- international airport for Sydney; if not, why not. mental significance. (2) Is the Government committed to constructing (2) Is the Minister aware that such a port would a second international airport in the Sydney basin; contravene laws protecting what is a designated if so, why. protected area, and would also be in contravention (3) Has the Government considered, or undertak- to nine separate orders from the Indian Supreme en any analysis, of the benefits which the establish- Court. ment of a second international airport outside the (3) Is the Minister aware that many local people Sydney basin can have in terms of regional devel- have been arrested opposing the development of the opment; if not, why not. proposed port. (4) Have contracts been negotiated for construc- (4) Will the Minister examine the matter and tion work on an airport on the Holsworthy range. raise the concerns of both Australian environmental (5) Has there been any decision to commence organisations and their Indian counterparts with work in March 1998. P&O, particularly in the context of an Australian registered company acting in a manner which Senator Alston—The Minister for Trans- would be unacceptable in Australia. port and Regional Development has provided (5) Is there any current involvement by any the following answer to the honourable Australian Government or semi-Government agency senator’s question: 5736 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

(1) Major airports recently built or currently Senator Newman—The Minister for being built at major cities overseas are generally Veterans’ Affairs has provided the following located no more than 50 kilometres from the central answer to the honourable senator’s question: business district. (1) Yes. Some information on cancellations and There are major disadvantages with locating a reductions of disability pensions in the period 1921 second airport at a site which is far removed from to 1930 is contained in the Annual Reports of the the centre of travel demand. The distance from Repatriation Commission. However, this informa- Sydney would have major adverse implications for tion does not differentiate between States nor does travel times,cost and convenience, and connection it differentiate between the pensions of members of with Sydney’s existing airport. As a consequence, the forces, their wives, children, or widowed there would be a strong likelihood that passengers mothers. and airlines would be unwilling to use the second airport thereby further increasing the pressures on (2 & 3) These questions fall within the portfolio Sydney (Kingsford Smith) Airport. For some sites, responsibility of my colleague the Minister for there would also be very significant costs associat- Defence Industry, Science and Personnel. ed with providing suitable road and rail access and (4) The ethnic origins of members of the Tas- linkages to other support services (such as a fuel manian State Repatriation Board in the 1920s are line). unknown. (2) The Government is committed to building a (5) The ethnic origins of members of the War second major airport for Sydney up to a full Pensions Entitlement Appeal Tribunal in the 1920s international standard. While Badgerys Creek are unknown. remains the Government’s preferred site, subject to a favourable outcome of an Environmental Impact Imported Food Statement (EIS), the Holsworthy Military Area is (Question No. 681) being considered as a possible alternative. Senator Bob Collins asked the Minister for (3) The Government is not considering possible sites outside the Sydney basin for the second major Customs & Consumer Affairs, upon notice, on Sydney airport for reasons outlined in (1) above. 2 July 1997: (4) No. (1) What role do Customs officers play in the inspection of imported food. (5) No. (2) How many Customs officers were employed World War I: Tasmanian Aboriginal in monitoring imported food in the 1994, 1995, Service 1996 and 1997 calendar years. (Question No. 679) (3) What was the level of expenditure by the de- partment on monitoring imported food in the 1994- Senator Denman asked the Minister for 94, 1995-96 and 1996-97 financial years and what Veterans’ Affairs, upon notice, on 30 June level of funding has been allocated for the 1997-98 1997: financial year. (1) Are there any records or statistics for the Senator Ellison—The answer to the hon- period 1921 to 1930, inclusive, for the cancelling ourable senator’s question is as follows: or reduction of disability pensions arising out of (1) Customs does not have primary responsibility conditions or injuries caused by or related to World for the inspection of imported food. War I service; if so, where are those records held. In respect of commercial consignments, Customs (2) Are there any records or lists held of how assists the Imported Food Inspection Program many "Islanders" from the Furneaux Group enlisted th (IFIP) of the Australian Quarantine Inspection or served with the 12 Battalion in World War I; Service (AQIS) in identifying consignments which if so, where are those records held. may require inspection. (3) How many individuals of Tasmanian Aborigi- th Customs, through its profiling capability, passes nal extraction served at some stage with the 12 details of commercial food importations to AQIS. Battalion immediately before, during and after Importers of certain foods are then required to World War I. lodge quarantine entries with AQIS, who in turn (4) Did any individuals of Tasmanian Aboriginal make decisions on the level of inspection required. extraction sit as members of the State Repatriation Customs may in some cases conditionally release Board in the 1920s. consignments of food subject to IFIP certification, (5) Did any individuals of Tasmanian Aboriginal provided all Customs requirements have been met. extraction sit as Commissioners on the War Pen- In relation to non-commercial importations of sions Entitlement Appeal Tribunal in the 1920s. food, including through international passengers and Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5737 private consignments via cargo and mail, the goods (16) Can copies be provided of the comments are referred to AQIS for inspection. received from the Thai authorities, and the chicken (2) and (3) Customs does not allocate staff industry, to the draft report. specifically for the purpose of monitoring imported (17) Has the inspection of the Thai plants now food, nor does it allocate expenditure specifically been completed or are further visits planned; if so: for this purpose. (a) when will these further inspections take place; and (b) will the same officials undertake the inspec- Importation of Cooked Chicken Meat tions to ensure continuity in the assessment process. (Question No. 682) (19) When will the final report from the inspec- Senator Bob Collins asked the Minister tion of the Thai plants be completed. representing the Minister for Primary Indus- Senator Parer—The acting Minister for tries and Energy, upon notice, on 2 July 1997: Primary Industries and Energy has provided (1) Did Mr David Wilson visit Thailand in late the following answer to the honourable 1990 or early 1991 to inspect chicken processing senator’s question: facilities. (1) Dr David Wilson visited Thailand from 12 to (2) What was Dr Wilson’s position in the 21 February, 1990. Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service (2) At the time of Dr Wilson’s visit to Thailand, (AQIS) at that time and what are his qualifications. he was the head of the Development and Review (3) Who accompanied Dr Wilson on that visit Section, Animal Quarantine and Exports Branch, and what were their qualifications and experience. AQIS. Dr Wilson has a BVSc degree and has (4) How many plants were inspected and how worked in AQIS and its predecessor organisations many of those plants had hazard analysis of critical since 1981. control point (HACCP) systems in place. (3) Dr Wilson was not accompanied on the visit. (5) Was a draft report provided to the Thai auth- (4) 10 plants were visited. Dr Wilson did not for- orities for comment and amended as a consequence mally inspect any plants with regard to approval to of those comments. export to Australia. To Dr Wilson’s knowledge (6) Can copies be provided of the draft report, none of the plants he visited had HACCP systems the comments received from the Thai authorities in place. and the final report. (5) Inspection of available files gives no indica- (7) Was the draft report also provided to the tion that a draft report was provided and Dr Wilson Australian Chicken Industry; if so, was it amended does not recall providing a draft report to the Thai as a result of comments from the local industry. authorities for comment. (8) (a) When did the joint AQIS/chicken industry (6) A copy of Dr Wilson’s final report is provid- delegation visit Thailand to inspect that country’s ed. export chicken processing plants; and (b) how long (7) Dr Wilson’s draft report was not provided to was the delegation in Thailand. the Australian poultry industry. (9) Who were the members of that delegation (8) (a) The joint AQIS/chicken industry deleg- and what are their qualifications and experience. ation visited Thailand in April 1997. (10) Were all plants seeking to export product to (b) Dr Peter McGregor and Dr Linda Corner of Australia visited by the delegation; if not: (a) how AQIS were in Thailand from 1st April to 22 April. many plants were inspected; and (b) how were they Dr Margaret Mackenzie, an employee of Inghams selected. Pty Ltd., was in Thailand from 7 April to 12 April. (11) Were HACCP systems operating in all the Dr Heloisa Mariath, of the Department of Primary plants inspected. Industries and Energy was in Thailand from 16 April to 18 April. (12) If HACCP systems were in place, how long had they been operational. (9) The chicken processing establishments were inspected by Dr McGregor and Dr Corner and the (13) Has a draft report on the visit been com- industry representative, Dr Mackenzie. In addition, pleted; if so, can a copy of the draft report be Dr Mariath conducted an evaluation of Thai residue provided. management programs for chicken production. (14) Has the draft report been sent to the Thai Dr McGregor has a BVSc degree and has been authorities for comment; if so: (a) to whom was the trained in quality assurance auditing, HACCP draft sent; and (b) when was it sent. implementation and canning procedures. He has (15) When was the draft report provided to the worked in AQIS and its predecessor organisations chicken industry and to whom was it provided. since 1972 and has 25 years experience associated 5738 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 with the red meat and poultry slaughtering and Waterfront further processing industries. (Question No. 684) Dr Corner’s qualifications are BVSc, MSc (Epi- Senator Bob Collins asked the Minister for demiology), PhD (Virology) and Grad Dip. (Ad- min.). She has completed training in Approved Transport and Regional Development, upon Quality Assurance and Hazard Analysis and Critical notice, on 4 July 1997: Control Points and passed the exam conducted by (1) What were the crane rates, containers moved the Australian Organisation for Quality (NSW) on per crane per hour, by quarter, in each of the 1991 Quality Assurance Auditing. She has worked for to 1996 calendar years and for the first two quarters two years in the Animal Quarantine Policy Branch of 1997, achieved at the following ports: (a) of AQIS. Melbourne; (b) Sydney; (c) Adelaide; (d) Brisbane; and (e) Fremantle. Dr MacKenzie’s qualifications are BSc. MSc. and Ph.D. She has worked for Inghams since 1977 (2) (a) What was the variation in the number of and is presently the National Technical Services containers handled by a man shift; and (b) what Manager, Inghams Enterprises Pty. Ltd. was the average delay per ship call for the ports in (1) over the same period. Dr Mariath’s qualifications are BSc (Biological (3) What were the average container terminal Sciences), MSc ( Genetics ) and PhD (Agricultural charges for the ports in (1) over the same period. Sciences). Dr Mariath is presently the manager of the National Residue Survey of poultry, eggs, fish, (4) What were the crane rates, by quarter, molluscs, crustaceans, aquaculture products and achieved in each of the 1991 to 1996 calendar honey and is responsible for program design, imple- years and for the first two quarters of 1997 in the mentation and evaluation of chemical contaminants following ports: (a) Wellington, New Zealand (NZ); in Australian poultry. She has worked for 7 years (b) Trieste, Europe; (c) Laem Chabang, Thailand; in the Bureau of Resource Sciences. (d) Baltimore, United States (US); (c) Zeebrugge, Belgium; (f) Klang, Malaysia; and (g) Oakland, (10) All plants nominated by the Government of US. Thailand were inspected. (5) (a)What was the variation in the number of containers handled by a man shift; and (b) what (11) & (12) HACCP systems were not in place was the average delay per ship call, for the ports in in any of the plants. (4) over the same period. The Thai Department of Livestock Development (6) What were the average container terminal (DLD) was in the process of assessing the company charges for the ports in (4) over the same period. HACCP manual of each of the establishments (7) What was the cost per visit for vessels inspected for approval. discharging break bulk cargo for each of the 1991 (13) A draft report has been prepared but not yet to 1996 calendar years and as at June 1997 at the finalised. following ports: (a) Melbourne; (b) Fremantle; (c) New Westminster, Canada: (d) Sydney; (e) Long (14) On 19 June 1997 the draft report was Beach, US; (f) Brisbane; (g) Tacoma, US; (h) provided to the DLD for correction of any errors of Richmond, US; and (i) Tauranga, NZ. fact that may have arisen due to reasons such as (8) How many people were employed in steve- language barriers. doring in each of the 1991 to 1996 calendar years and as at June 1997 at the following ports: (a) (15) The draft report was examined by Dr Melbourne; (b) Sydney; (c) Adelaide; (d) Brisbane; Mackenzie on 11 June 1997. and (e) Fremantle. (16) The DLD have yet to comment on any (9) How many people were employed by the port errors of fact in the draft report. The draft report authorities in each of the 1991 to 1996 calendar was not circulated to the chicken industry other years and as at June 1997 in the ports of: (a) than to Dr MacKenzie. Melbourne; (b) Sydney; (c) Adelaide; (d) Brisbane; and (e) Fremantle. (17) Further actions will depend on decisions (10) What was the average Australian tug crew arising out of the report on the inspection of size in each of the 1989 to 1997 calendar years. nominated Thai plants and on further information from Thailand. (11) (a) What was the average loading time in each of the Australian grain ports in each of the (19) The report from the inspection of the Thai 1989 to 1997 calendar years; and (b) what were the plants will be finalised after a response from the average manning levels at the ports in (9) over the DLD is received. same period. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5739

Senator Alston—The Minister for Trans- (1) The following table provides average crane port and Regional Development has provided rates for container terminals in each port. The data is provided in TEUs per hour as data in lifts or the following answer to the honourable containers per hour is available only back to senator’s question: December 1995. Table: Australian container terminal crane rates, selected ports, 1991-1996 TEUs per hour

Port Quarter Melbourne Sydney Adelaide Brisbane Fremantle Mar 91 15.0 14.2 16.1 13.3 15.5 Jun 91 14.1 14.1 17.7 13.4 15.8 Sep 91 15.7 15.5 17.0 14.3 15.0 Dec 91 14.8 17.5 18.0 14.9 16.4 Mar 92 16.7 18.6 19.8 17.0 21.0 Jun 92 18.1 19.8 18.7 18.0 18.6 Sep 92 19.4 20.9 19.1 19.8 20.4 Dec 92 na na na na na Mar 93 na na na na na Jun 93 na na na na na Sep 93 22.3 19.8 19.8 21.2 19.0 Dec 93 18.9 20.4 20.9 21.1 19.8 Mar 94 19.7 16.4 20.6 20.4 19.8 Jun 94 19.1 18.5 19.1 20.8 19.3 Sep 94 18.5 16.9 19.8 20.3 21.6 Dec 94 20.2 16.0 20.2 18.9 22.9 Mar 95 20.8 18.9 21.5 18.4 20.2 Jun 95 19.4 18.1 20.2 18.0 19.3 Sep 95 19.8 19.3 20.9 18.6 19.5 Dec 95 19.6 18.5 21.4 18.9 19.2 Mar 96 20.5 19.5 21.5 20.0 21.2 Jun 96 22.3 19.9 21.5 19.9 23.4 Sep 96 24.5 20.3 22.7 20.6 20.8 Dec 96 22.4 19.6 24.0 20.6 21.5 Mar 97 23.6 18.7 24.6 20.0 23.3 Jun 97 na na na na na Source: Waterline, Bureau of Transport and Communications Economics, various issues, Australian Government Publishing Service, Canberra. (2) (a) Data showing the variation in containers (3) Previously, figures for average container handled per man shift over the period 1991-1997 terminal charges at major Australian container ports is not available. were compiled by the Prices Surveillance Authority (b) Data showing the average delay per ship call (PSA), which has since been absorbed into the over the period 1991-1997 in the ports of Mel- Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. bourne, Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane and Fremantle Stevedoring charges were published periodically by is not available. the PSA in the form of national weighted-average revenue per TEU. The BIE report Waterfront 1995: International Disaggregation on a port-by-port basis is not Benchmarking reported average delays per ship call possible due to confidentiality arrangements for the for selected container ports for 1994 in the context collection of data. of a case study of P&O Containers Pty Ltd. During 1994, that company reported average delays of The table below shows the national average around 8 hours in Adelaide, 16 hours in Fremantle, stevedoring cost for the period 1991-1995. Figures 21 hours in Melbourne and 35 hours in Sydney. for 1996 and 1997 are unavailable at this stage. 5740 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Table: National weighted-average stevedoring revenue—per TEU, 1991-1997.

Year National weighted-average stevedoring revenue per TEU 1991 244 1992 195 1993 193 1994 196 1995 2031 1996 na 1997 na Notes. 1. The 1995 figure is a preliminary estimate obtained from the ACCC and published by the BTCE in Waterline. Source: Monitoring of Stevedoring Costs and Charges and Terminal Handling Charges, Prices Surveillance Authority, various issues, PSA, Melbourne. Also Waterline, BTCE, Issue no.8, September 1996, p.8, AGPS, Canberra.

(4) Time series crane rates for these overseas across Australian ports, with Sydney being the ports are not available. However, the report Water- worst of all 16 ports surveyed, while Fremantle and front 1995: International Benchmarking, published Melbourne were equivalent to the worst of the by the Bureau of Industry Economics (BIE), con- overseas ports. ducted comparisons of port performance, including However, the sample of overseas ports in the most of the overseas ports listed, based on a 17,000 survey varied from the list in the question. grt vessel exchanging 600 boxes and using each port’s ship rate. (6) Time series figures for average container terminal charges at these ports are not available. The BIE noted, for example, that the time taken for Australian terminals to work 600 boxes is The BIE report Waterfront 1995: International generally the longest of the ports examined. The Benchmarking contained a comparison of terminal Report indicated that while crane rates at most charges per twenty foot equivalent unit (TEU) by Australian ports fell during 1994, this was in container port for 1995. It noted that the five major contrast to the overseas ports where available mainland Australian container ports had similar evidence indicates crane rates continued to im- charges to Singapore, were cheaper than Welling- prove. ton, Hong Kong and the North American ports examined and more expensive than the other New Currently, the Productivity Commission is Zealand ports and the Malaysian, Thai and Euro- preparing an update of this report due for release pean ports. later this year. The Bureau of Transport and Communications (7) Time series discharging costs for break bulk Economics (BTCE) has published articles in cargo at these ports is not available. However, the Waterline comparing port charges and performance Bureau of Industry Economics report Waterfront in Australia and overseas. These articles have 1995: International Benchmarking provides an concluded that, for the ports studied, container ship overview of a break bulk cargo benchmarking study handling rates are higher in ports in New Zealand, undertaken by BHP Transport which compares non- Europe and Asia than in ports in Australia. The terminal charges for ports on the Australian-North trend of these conclusions supports the findings of American west coast route during 1994. The west the BIE report. coast route includes the ports of Melbourne, Fremantle, New Westminster, Sydney, Long Beach, (5) (a) Information on the variation in the Brisbane, Tacoma, Richmond and Tauranga. number of containers handled by a man shift at the overseas ports listed is not available. Based on a 14 275 grt vessel carrying a mixture of typical break bulk, the report found that Austral- (b) Detailed information on ship delays at the ian ports were amongst the most expensive ports overseas ports is not available. visited on the west coast service. The cheapest port, The Bureau of Industry Economics report Tauranga in New Zealand, was half the cost of Waterfront 1995: International Benchmarking Melbourne, Australia’s most expensive port. The surveyed delays experienced by ships from P&O charges at Brisbane, Australia’s cheapest port on Containers Pty Ltd at various ports around the this trade, were equivalent to the more expensive world. The survey found that delay times varied of the American west cost ports. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5741

(8) Detailed figures on stevedoring employment stevedoring workforce was close to its post-WIRA on a port-by-port basis are not available as employ- level of around 3800. ment levels are a matter for the various companies (9) The BTCE’s Waterline regularly publishes concerned. figures for total port authority employment in each In September 1989 (pre-WIRA) there were 8 872 of the five major mainland capital city ports. stevedoring employees Australia-wide. In its Overall, Australian port authorities reduced their Review of the Waterfront Industry Reform Pro- staffing from almost 8000 in 1985/86 to around gram, the BTCE estimated that in early 1994 the 1500 by 1995.

Table: Average annual port authority employment, selected ports, 1991-1997

1991/92 1992/93 1993/94 1995 1996 1997

Melbourne 946 707 561 392abna Sydney 570 456 242 236 243 na Adelaide 393 378 378 242 209 na Brisbane 238 233 226 227 232 na Fremantle 597 450 369 230 208 na Notes a. First six months only. Second half figures not available due to the subsequent restructuring of the Port of Melbourne Authority. b. The Port of Melbourne Authority reported an employment level of 287 at 30 June 1996. Average employment for July-December 1996 was 69, but this applies to the Melbourne Port Corporation only, excluding Melbourne Port Services Ltd. and remaining Port of Melbourne Authority Employees. The figures for the two half-years are not comparable. Source: Waterline, BTCE, various issues; and port authority annual reports.

(10) In 1989, the crew size on Australian tugs Quarantine: Pig Meat was up to eight. In March 1990, crew size was reduced to five and then again to four in June 1992, (Question No. 691) which is the current level. Senator Bob Collins asked the Minister (11) (a) Time series data for the average loading representing the Minister for Primary Indus- time in each of the Australian grain ports from tries and Energy, upon notice, on 8 July 1997: 1989 to 1997 is not available. 1. How many samples of imported pig meat were In its Waterfront 1995: International Bench- tested by Australian Quarantine and Inspection marking report, the BIE reported significant Service (AQIS) officers as part of the Imported variation in loading times for wheat at 16 Austral- Foods Inspection Program in the 1996/97 financial ian ports during 1993/94. Loading times varied year. from less than 10 hours per ship at Gladstone and 2. What were the results of the tests. less than 15 at Brisbane to nearly 50 at Geelong and Wallaroo. 3. How many companies in each Australian State are currently approved by AQIS to import Canadian The average loading per man shift has generally pig meat. doubled compared with levels prior to the early 4. (a) How many of these companies have been 1990’s. audited by AQIS; (b) how many of the audits were (b) Detailed information on manning levels for random; and (c) in which States are the audited grain loading at the major ports for the 1989-1997 companies located. period is not available. 5. (a) How many companies were found to be in The WIRA reforms provided prescribed reduc- breach of the quarantine protocol; (b) what was the tions in manning levels of between 50-80 per cent. nature of the breaches; (c) what action was taken In its Review of the Waterfront Industry Reform by AQIS; and (d) in which States were the com- Program, the BTCE concluded that, from the three panies found to be in breach of the protocols grain ports it consulted, manning levels had been located. reduced by almost 75 per cent compared to pre- Senator Parer—The Minister for Primary WIRA levels. Industries and Energy has provided the 5742 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997 following answers to the honourable senator’s 2. Of the eighty-seven samples tested, eighty-one questions: passed, one failed and five test results are out- 1. Eighty-seven samples of imported pig meat standing as at 17 July 1997. were tested by the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service, Imported Food Inspection The one (1) failure was for labelling, (it omitted Program during the 1996-97 financial year. mandatory information)

IFIP Tests on Imported Canadian Swine 1996—97

Test Total Tests Tests Passed Tests Failed Antibiotics 25 22 * 0 Cadmium 1 1 0 Carbadox 8 7 * 0 Labelling 19 18 1 Lead 1 1 0 Mercury 1 1 0 Stilbenes 2 2 0 Visual 30 29 * 0 TOTALS 87 81 1 * Test results outstanding at time of report.

(3) Importers are not required to be approved in into any state or territory. The import permit is order to import Canadian pig meat or other com- valid for a period of two months and is for one modities. Therefore, there is no register of approved shipment only. importers. Any organisation or individual can apply The number of importers currently holding valid to AQIS for a permit to import Canadian pig meat permits to import Canadian pig meat are as follows:

State/Territory Total number of importers holding valid permits New South Wales 4 Victoria 1 Tasmania 0 Queensland 0 South Australia 0 Western Australia 0 Northern Territory 0 Australian Capital Territory 0

4. (a) Every consignment of imported Canadian (b) The breaches by the importers involved a pig meat is subject to full inspection of documenta- failure by one importer to obtain a movement tion and product. direction for a single carton of imported pig meat. (b) No random audits of importers occurred The other breach related to the inadequacy of the during financial year 1996/97 as all consignments records maintenance system of another importer. are subject to full inspection of documentation and The incidents involving processors included a product. breach of AQIS requirements for ensuring adequate (c) Importers of Canadian pig meat consignments staff training in relation to handling Canadian pig inspected during financial year 1996/97 are cur- meat. The second breach involved the failure of the rently located in Queensland, New South Wales, processor to maintain documentation relating to the Victoria, Tasmania, and South Australia. movement of uncooked Canadian pig meat. 5. (a) A total of two processors and two import- (c) Following each of the non-compliance issues ers were found to be in breach of the quarantine relating to the two pig meat importers and the two protocol during the financial year of 1996/97. processors, AQIS issued letters asking each of the Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5743 parties to show cause as to why they should be able (6) Is there a code of practice in Australia for the to continue to import or process this commodity. management of community housing. The matters were then referred to AQIS’s Compli- ance, Legal and Evaluation Branch. As a conse- Senator Newman—The answer to the quence of the subsequent investigations and periods honourable senator’s question is as follows: of suspension for the processors, letters of warning (1) The Government is supportive of the con- were issued to each of the parties. tinued development of community housing and has Corrective action taken by AQIS involved maintained the Community Housing Program amending import permits to include the requirement identified funding stream to the end of the current for a declaration to be provided by the importer CSHA. stating that they understand and will comply with (2) (a) & (b) The National Community Housing all AQIS import requirements that relate to this Forum estimates that there are currently 24,606 commodity. This declaration must be signed before units of community housing that have been funded the consignment is released to the importer. The through the Commonwealth State Housing Agree- smallgoods processors in breach of AQIS Quaran- ment. (.37% of housing stock in Australia) tine requirements were required to amend their It is expected that the number of units of com- manuals to add additional controls and ensure that munity housing will exceed 25,000 before the year breaches would not recur. 2000. (d) All breaches of quarantine protocol during the (c) The Commonwealth has maintained Com- 1996/97 financial year occurred in New South munity Housing Program funding at 1995-96 levels Wales. until June 1999—the end of the current CSHA. Housing (d) Details of housing assistance arrangements between the Commonwealth and the States after (Question No. 694) June 1999 are still being discussed by Housing Senator Allison asked the Minister for Ministers. Social Security, upon notice, on 10 July 1997: (3) The unit cost of public and community housing varies according to the particular circum- (1) Is the Federal Government supportive of the stances in which housing assistance is being idea that there should be an expansion of communi- provided. Performance reporting that will enable ty housing in Australia, given the current shortage comparison of average unit costs and administration of public housing and the difficulties faced by is being implemented under the COAG Review of many tenants in the private market. Government Service Provision. (2) With reference to the fact that community (4) The institutional framework in which provid- housing currently represents less than 5 per cent of ers of public and community housing operate is the total housing in Australia, or about 12 000 units: responsibility of State and Territory governments. Given that the previous Government advocated The Commonwealth supports the principle that that numbers of community housing units should be competitive supply arrangements are beneficial. doubled by the year 2000 to around 25 000: (a) is (5) It is not possible to provide a statistical this a reasonable target; (b) what percentage target profile of the social circumstances of people living would be considered appropriate; (c) will the in community housing. Federal Government continue to fund community housing under the Community Housing Program (6) Housing Ministers are developing separate over the next 3 years and will funding be main- Codes of Practice for community housing in each tained at current levels; and (d) under the new State and Territory, through the 1996 Common- housing proposal, would expansion of the numbers wealth State Housing Agreement. of community housing units in Australia be a Taxation Federal or State initiative. Senator Harradine on 24 June 1997 (3) On a per unit cost basis, which is more costly for governments to provide, community or public (Official Hansard page 4956) asked Senator housing. Kemp a question without notice concerning whether a user friendly Windows based (4) Will the Federal Government encourage com- petition between the public and community sectors interface of the Treasury’s PRISMOD model for tenants in the future. of the tax system would be made available to (5) Can a statistical profile of the social circum- interested members of the public so that stances of people living in community housing, that taxpayers themselves can work out whether is, age, marital status, ethnic background and spe- they are better or worse off under any pro- cial circumstances such as disabilities, be provided. posed tax changes. 5744 SENATE Tuesday, 26 August 1997

Senator Kemp—The Treasurer has provid- Senator Kemp—The Treasurer has provid- ed the following information in answer to the ed the following information in answer to the honourable senator’s question: honourable senator’s question: No such version of PRISMOD exists and there are not plans, at this stage, to produce one. The introduction of the Common Youth Allow- ance rationalises a range of existing payments and Common Youth Allowance puts in place a framework which deals with the changing youth market more appropriately and en- Senator Harradine on 18 June 1997 courages young Australians to pursue further study (Official Hansard page 4486) asked Senator to improve their employment prospects. To ensure Hill, as Minister representing the Treasurer a that this allowance is only obtained by those in question without notice concerning those genuine need, it is subject to a parental means test. families affected by recent changes to the youth allowance that may have to allocate an The simple answer to the Senator’s question is no, the Government will not make tax exempt what increased share of their taxable income to is taxable income. The Government does not have supporting their children. He also asked a policy of introducing concessional tax treatment whether the income tax legislation would be to the taxable income of those who may lose further amended. entitlements for direct outlay benefits. Tuesday, 26 August 1997 SENATE 5745