John Adams And the case of the missing monument EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Listen to Presidential at http://wapo.st/presidential This transcript was run through an automated transcription service and then lightly edited for clarity. There may be typos or small discrepancies from the podcast audio. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: This week, our second episode of Presidential is starting outside the White House and I'm asking visitors what they know about John Adams. WHITE HOUSE VISITOR #1: Not too much, no. WHITE HOUSE VISITOR #2: I watched the HBO series on John Adams with Paul Giamatti. WHITE HOUSE VISITOR #3: He was the second president of the United States. WHITE HOUSE VISITOR #4: I don't know. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: If you're one of the rare people who do already know quite a lot about John Adams, the chances are good that that's thanks to David McCullough. You either read his Pulitzer Prize-winning biography of Adams or maybe you, too, saw that HBO miniseries from a couple years back starring Paul Giamatti. That was based on McCullough's biography. But even historian David McCullough would say that history has not done a whole lot to keep John Adams top of mind for us today when it comes to American presidents. DAVID MCCULLOUGH: We have to realize that popular symbolism has not been very generous toward Adams. He is the only one of our founding fathers for whom there is no memorial, no statue, no building in his honor in our nation's capital. And to me that is absolutely inexcusable. It is long past time when we should recognize what he did and who he was. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: I'm Lillian Cunningham and this is the second episode of Presidential. PRESIDENTIAL INTRO MUSIC LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: Of our first three presidents, Washington and Jefferson have iconic memorials in D.C. and Adams has…zip. So, we're going to look at why that is and explore the question of how monuments shape our collective memory of which presidents are important. But Presidential podcast wapo.st/presidential 1 first, let's get a better sense of Adam's character and his early story. DAVID MCCULLOUGH: John Adams grew up in as simple, as difficult a beginning family childhood life as Abraham Lincoln. There was perhaps only one book in the house, and that was the Bible. His mother was almost certainly illiterate, but he was a very bright boy and he worked very hard and he got a scholarship to Harvard. Now, we shouldn't think of the great Harvard University of the present day. This was a small college. But as he said, “I discovered books and read forever.” And he then went on to get a law degree and practiced law as a young man in the vicinity of Boston. He lived in Quincy, Massachusetts, and he made his first big mark in our story as a country when he defended the British soldiers who had participated in what was called the Boston Massacre. Nobody else would defend them. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: OK, so just a little context here. The Boston Massacre happened in 1770, when British soldiers end up killing five people in Boston. It's possible it's not entirely their fault, but they're likely to get the death penalty and no lawyer in Boston wants to defend these soldiers. John Adams ends up being the only person who says he will. David McCullough says this is because he believed so firmly in the law and the idea that the accused are innocent until proven guilty. But Adams is basically prepared for this to be the end of his career. Well, instead, he actually ends up winning the trial and gaining some renown for his bravery and his integrity. Fast forward a bit, and as he becomes more of a public figure, he goes on to take part in the Continental Congress in Philadelphia, which leads to the creation of the Declaration of Independence. DAVID MCCULLOUGH: He was the great on-the-floor spokesman for the Declaration of Independence. He was the one that battled to make it happen. Jefferson wrote most of it with help from Franklin and Adams, but Jefferson would not get up and defend what he felt had to be done. He left that all to Adams. And Franklin much preferred to sit and listen, maybe make an occasional comment. So it was that that put John Adams on the map, and there really was nobody like him. He could be feisty. He could be critical of other people, but he also had a wonderful sense of humor. He loved to be with people, he loved to have a drink, he loved to gather in the taverns at night and talk with the other delegates. And he was sturdy physically, though he was not a very tall or impressive man compared to someone like Washington or Jefferson. He was hard as a rock and immensely likable once you got to know him. He's a character. He's a character in the play and I like his determination. He won't give up. He never had any money. He couldn't afford servants or fine clothing or the other trappings that Jefferson and Washington and others were known for. And he had a marvelous wife. I think Abigail Adams is one of the most admirable Americans ever. John Adams was the only Founding Father who never owned a slave as a matter of principle, and Abigail, his wife, was even more adamant on the subject. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: So before Adams ends up becoming president himself, he served as vice president to George Washington. You'll remember from last week's episode that Julie Miller from the Library of Congress talked about how one of Washington's main traits was his self-control. Presidential podcast wapo.st/presidential 2 JULIE MILLER: So Adams, who came after him, was very different. He emotionally did not know self-control. He just said whatever he thought. He was not silent in company. He talked and talked and talked, and people couldn't stand him. John Adams would always tell the truth and it often got him into a lot of trouble. It often seemed unkind or tactless, but that was in his nature. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: His talkative nature was in contrast to Jefferson, who did not like public speaking. We're going to explore that detail more in the next episode, but in the meantime, it's really hard to talk about Adams without discussing his relationship to Jefferson. When Adams becomes president, he beats Jefferson by only three votes. And because of the electoral process at the time, this makes Jefferson his vice president -- even though political parties have started to form at this point and Adams is on one side with the Federalists, while Jefferson is over on the other side as a Republican. DAVID MCCULLOUGH: Adams and Jefferson were very close during the time of the Revolution, and particularly when they were both serving abroad in France. After they came back and the country got going, and the political parties began to form, they became rivals. And then eventually, they became enemies when Jefferson was found to be hiring somebody to defame Adams and attack him at every chance. And Jefferson was paying for that. But then after their retirement, it was Adams who wrote to Jefferson saying it is time that we make up and be friends again. And they did. And Jefferson responded to it very warmly, and they began a correspondence that lasted through to the ends of their lives. That's one of the most wonderful treasures of letters between two very important Americans. LILLIAN CUNNINGHAM: Julie Miller took me through some of the correspondence they have at the Library of Congress between Adams and Jefferson once both of them had retired. And she points out how much, even in their old age, they continued to debate these things that had happened during their presidencies. Here's Julie explaining some of their exchanges about the Alien and Sedition Acts, in particular. JULIE MILLER: These were passed when Adams was president in 1798 and the context for this is this thing called the Quasi-War with France. In other words, during this period, England and France were at war, and there was a fear -- Americans had a fear -- which was not manifested, that France was going to invade the United States. And in fact, Washington was called out of retirement to lead an army -- which he didn't. None of this happened, it didn't happen, but they were worried about it. So, it was in that context that, in particular, the Alien Acts were passed, all of which made it really hard for immigrants to settle in the United States. And the particular immigrants Adams, as president, was worried about were French immigrants. When Jefferson became president, in his inaugural address, he wrote, for example here: He wrote, “I cannot omit recommending a revisal of the laws” -- in other words, the Alien Acts – “on the subject of naturalization. Considering the ordinary chances of human life, a denial of citizenship under residents of 14 years…” -- in other words, the Naturalization Act said that you had to live in the country for 14 years before you could apply for citizenship. Then he says: “…shall oppress humanity by no asylum on this globe.” So Jefferson is saying, you know, we really shouldn't have these Alien Acts that are unfriendly to French refugees because these are people fleeing from the Terror, and we really should harbor Presidential podcast wapo.st/presidential 3 them.