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Primary Point, Vol 5 Num 3 I 'I Non Profit Org. �I 'I U.S. Postage /I J PAID 1 Address Correction Requested i Permit #278 ,:i Return Postage Guaranteed Providence, RI 'I Ii ARY OINT PUBLISHED BY THE KWAN UM ZENSCHOOL K.B.C. Hong Poep Won VOLUME FIVE, NUMBER THREE 528 POUND ROAD, CUMBERLAND, RI 02864 (401)658-1476 NOVEMBER 1988 PERCEIVE UNIVERSAL SOUND An Interview with Zen Master Seung Sahn. we are centered we can control our This interview with Zen Master Seung Sahn strongly and thus our condition and situation. appeared in "The American Theosophist" feelings, (AT) in May 1985. It is reprinted by permis­ AT: When you refer to a "center" do you sion of the Theosophical Society in America, mean any particular point in the body? Wheaton, Illinois. The interviewer is Gary DSSN: No, it is not just one point. To be Doore. Zen Master Sahn is now ,I Seung strongly centered is to be at one with the to his students as Dae Soen Sa referred by universal center, which means infinite time Nim. (See note on 3) page and infinite space. Doore: What is Zen Gary chanting? The first time one tries chanting medita­ Seung Sahn (Dae Soen Sa Nim): Chanting is tion there will be much confused thinking, very important in our practice. We call it many likes, dislikes and so on. This indicates "chanting meditation." Meditation means keep­ that the whole mind is outwardly-oriented. ing a not-moving mind. The important thing in Therefore, it is necessary first to return to chanting meditation is to perceive the sound of one's energy source, to return to a single point. one's own voice; not hear, but perceive. AT: In other words, one must first learn to .;1 AT: Are you using the word "perceive" in a concentrate? 'II sense? ,1/ special DSSN : Yes. Below the navel we have a center Master Dharma Teacher Do Am Sunim I�I means an DSSN: Yes. Perceiving your'voice per­ that is called "energy garden" in Korean .. III ceiving your true self or true nature. Then you We eat, we breathe, and this area becomes a ,."r and the sound are never separate, which means source of power. H the mind becomes still, that you and the whole universe arenever this saves enefgy. The mind, however, is con­ separate. Thus, to perceive our true nature is to stantly restless. There is an endless stream of perceive universal substance. desires for various kinds of experience; sights, Do Am Sunim Becomes Poland's With regular chanting, our sense of being (continued on next page) centered will get stronger and stronger. When First Master Dharma Teacher saw, and, as often Zen stu­ Mt. in the Mist and Rain Zen Master Seung Sahn is now referred to by happens among Fuji dents, he switched careers: his with his students as Dae Soen Sa Nim. (See note on experience Zen enabled him meditation page 3) practice to.use by George Bowman, Master Dharma Teacher techniques to counsel drug addicts. [Editor's note: excerptsfrom the inka In started a second below were translated Warsaw, Andrzej This talk was excerptedfrom a Dharma Talk Why should we try this experiment? We ceremony given by which was the name Do Am Dorota and edited Susan temple given Sa, given at the Providence Zen Center in January can enjoy the flowers only if we stop long Krzyzanowska by from its founder's Dharma name, Do Am (Sa to look at them. What 1988. enough stops moving? Phillips} . means temple). The Polish Kwan Um Zen First, our body stops moving; next, our scat­ this retreat we have been sit­ School was formed as a separate entity from tered thinking stops moving; then, our dis­ Duringting short, twenty minute rounds June 4th of this year Do Am the North American Kwan Um Zen School. persed and confused awareness stops moving; with the intention of not Ordinari­ OnSunim became the first Master Dhar­ Andrzej has been Abbot of that body since its moving. and we come into full with finally, relationship As Dae Soen Sa Nim often tells his we sit much and allow ma Teacher ofKwan Urn Zen School of inception. ly, longer people this flower. This full and clear ex­ relationship the Polish school is and Poland. Over one hundred students, very strong to stand behind their cushions when they of the flower is not a meditation fifty people perience upon is In addition to the centers in War­ came to the Warsaw Zen Centerto see growing. are in great pain or unconttollable sleepi­ something that is separate from us. Rather, in saw and Krakow already mentioned, there is a ness. we have been fearful of stillness, we forget ourselves and become in­ Dae Soen Sa Nim give inka- the Perhaps center in Gdansk and approximately fifteen af­ timate with the we enter the new students from their flower, boundless authority to teach kong-an and scaring away practice filiated sitting groups throughout Poland. cushions when feel overwhelmed world of prajna. lead retreats- to Do Am Sunim. The they In December of 1986, Andrzej took tradi­ with or boredom. There is, however, In sitting still we are able to receive what inka ceremony took one day before pain place tional monk's precepts at Providence Zen this moment has to offer. We see that this mo- the Polish ten great wisdom to be found in stillness. Sangha's year anniversary Center, and would thereafter be called Do Am rnent, of what our idea about it may regardless celebration. Master Dharma Teacher (and Sunim. than two Before each round of sitting we are Now, less years later, he be, is not can we entirely trustworthy- only Polish KUZS Jacob in another vowing not to move, to sit with whatever ap­ honorary President) would participate momentous trust it, we are it. So we are not to am­ trying his pears in this moment and to relate to it as our Perl joined Dae Soen Sa Nim there for ceremony that would profoundly affect life. putate pieces of ourselves to fit some arbitrary teacher and some are friend. Of course, friends these major events. Representatives from inka ceremonies include an image of what is acceptable. (That would be Traditionally, quite challenging, but nevertheless we are com­ all the Buddhist sanghas in Poland at­ explanation of the procedures to the audience, (continued on 6) mitted to a full with them! page relationship tended, reflecting the very close ties that a period of Dharma Combat in which mem­ bers the the a the groups have. of audience challenge initiate, speech by the new Master Dharma Teacher, The Polish Sangha had its beginnings in and congratulatory speeches. In this the first 1978, when Dae Soen Sa Nim and Jacob Perl Polish inka ceremony, Jacob Perl, who was visited Poland at the invitation of a former born in Poland and speaks the language fluent­ r"'iNSiDEPROORvPQiNT-liiiiii FIRST KYOL CHE BOOK REVIEWS ••••.••••••••• 11 f: member of Zen Center in New York Chogye ly, explained the ceremony and invited mem­ who had returned to his native land. Do Won 7 AN AMERICAN MONK IN KOREA: During �lli By 11111 bers of the audience to engage Do Am Sunim that visit, Dae Soen Sa Nim and Jacob first SOUNDS OF THE WORLD' Sunim in Dharma combat. The following are excerpts !:il MuRyang 12::::[ met Do Am Sunim or, as he was known at that from the Dharma combat exchanges, Do Am Livelihood- KWAN UM ZEN SCHOOL time, Andrzej Czarnecki. :::::: Right ::::: Sunim's Dharma Talk, and congratulatory In 1978, Andrezj was a self-employed ar­ Jacob Perl and Dae Soen Su Nim. illl1 Our Readers Respond 8 INFORMATION •••••••••.••••• 141:j: speeches by tisan producing mosaic tiles. After the visit he became deeply involved in Zen practice and started a Zen Center in his home in Krakow. A I H::��::��::1 PRA��CEIO I (continued on page 4) �li:::::;:::::::::::::::::::::::*:::::::::�:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::�:::::::::::::::::::::::;::::::::;.�:::::::::::::;:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;::::::::::::::::�:::::::;:::::;;::�::::::::::::;:::::::::::::��:::;:::::;:::;:�;:::::::::::::::;:::�:::::::::::::::::::::;::::::::::::::::::;:::::::::::::::::::::I�. couple of years later Andrzej moved to War- -2-------------pRIMARY pOINT l\Iovember 1988 the area of the stomach it will be cor­ There must be no mind! Then there is Soen Sa Nim Interview general appear. rect. One does not have to try to chant from just clarity, and infinite time and space. PRIMARY POINT (Continuedfromfront page) that point below the navel. The sound comes AT: In one of the Buddhist Sutras it says that PRIMARY POINT is published by ���:;:�:�:;�?::i;�:�:�:�:�:�:�*�:�:i:j:[��:j:�:j:�:j:l:�:j:j:j:l:�:j:l:l:l:i;l:�:i:i:l:�:�:�j:j:j:j:j:j:i:j:j:j:�:�:l:rj:j:j:j:j:j:[:j:�:j:j:j:j:i;j:j:j:j:�:�:j:j:�:j:j by itself if it is done correctly. enlightenment may be obtained by turning the Kwan Urn Zen School, a non-profit sounds, smells, tastes, feelings. This turning AT: What is the difference between Zen chant­ 'back the faculty of hearing to the original na­ religious corporation under the direction of outward of the mind in search of sensory ex­ ing and singing? ture, and that this is the most suitable method Zen Master Seung Sahn. The school sup­ perience dissipates one's energy until finally for human comment on DSSN: Direction is what makes the difference. beings. Will you this? ports and arranges the world-wide teaching there is nothing left in the energy garden. schedule of Zen Master Sahn and his Love have what we DSSN: Those are differe�t Seung Thereby one becomes subject to control by out­ songs,for example, only merely "teaching senior issues on con­ call a "love-direction." This is in the words." The is the same as we teachers, publications side conditions or influences, and so loses con­ might idea, however, realm of love and and have been Don't to words.
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