1897. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2581

SENATE. BILL INTRODUCED. Mr. ROACH int1·oduced a bill (S. 2385) to amend the act enti­ WEDNESDAY;July 14, 1897. tled "An act granting pensions to the soldiers and sailors of the The Senate met at 12 o'clock m. Mexican war, and for other purposes,"approved January 20, 1887; Prayer by Rev. J. W. DuFFEY, D. D., of the city of Washington. which was read twice by its title, and, with the accompanying The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. papers, referred to the Committee on Pensions. BREAKWATER AT SAN PEDRO HARBOR. REFERENCE OF CLAIMS TO COMMITTEE ON CLAIMS. Mr. STEWART. I desire to enter a motion to reconsider the Mr. HALE. I ask for the adoption of the following order: Orde1·ed, That on all claims referred during the present session of Congress vote by whieh the concurrent resolution in regard to a break­ to the Committee on Appropriations, whether in the form of bills or amend­ water at San Pedro Harbor was agreed to. ments to appropriation bills, the committee js h ereby discharged from fur­ The VICE-PRESIDENT. Notice of the motion to reconsider ther consideration of the same, and they are hereby referred to the Commit- will be entered. tee on Claims. · Mr. WHITE. There is no mistake about the matter. I do not Mr. COCKRELL. That order has just been made. know exactly what the object of the Senator from Nevada is. I Mr. HALE. It has already been made? understand the Southern Pacific Railroad Company has some ob­ Mr. COCKRELL. I had it made just a moment ago. jection to the resolution; but if the Senator makes a motion to Mr. HALE. I am very glad of it. The Senator is .always· vigi­ t·econsider, I shall move to lay that motion on the table. lant. Then I withdraw the resolution. Did it cover the same Mr. STEWART. Will you not allow any explanation? Will claims? you insist on the motion without an explanation? The VICE-PRESIDENT. The request of the Senator from Mis­ l\fr. WHITE. I shall have no objection to an explanation. souri was not quite as comprehensive in its scope as the resolu­ Mr. STEWART. I simply give notice of the motion. I shall tion submitted by the Senator from Maine. call it up during the day. Mr. COCKRELL. Then let it be passed. Mr. WHITE. Very well. Mr. HALE. It will do no harm. Mr. STEWART. 1 do not want to delay the matter at all, but The VICE-PRESIDENT. The question is on agreeing to the I think it should be fully understood. resolution. Mr. DANIEL. Before the resolntion is adopted, I should lil~e MISSOURI RIVER IMPROVEMENTS. to ask the Senator from Maine for an explanation of it. ·The VICE-PRESIDENT laid before the Senate a communica­ Mr. HALE. All claims before the Committee on Appropria­ tion from the Secretary of War, in response to a resolution of the 2d tions as amendments to the deficiency appropriation bill were not instant, calling for a copy of the special report of Capt. J. C. Sanford, put on the bill. The ruling of the Chair upon one of them decided of the United States Corps of Engineers, bearing date of June 26, the point of order against them. Then, after debate, an amend­ 1897, and relating to improvements in the Missouri River at Pierre ment was offered providing a fund for the Committee on Claims and Fort Pierre, S. Dak., stating that the report called for is a to examine the claims and report at the beginning of the next ses­ special report, supplemental to the regular or formal report pre­ sion a bill covering all of them. The Senator from Missouri finds, viously submitted to Congress, and is consequently subject to the as I find, that some of the claims are out of the hands of the Com­ provisions of section 4 of the river and harbor act of June 3,1896, mittee on G1.aims and are with the Committee on Appropriations; etc.; which, on motion of 1\fr. CocKRELL, was ordered to lie on and in order that the Committee on Claims may have jurisdiction, the table, and to be printed. the resolution refers them back to the Committee on Claims. Mr. QUAY. I suggest that there is no quorum of the Senate The resohition was agreed to. present. MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The absence of a quorum is s·ug­ gested by thE!' Senator from Pennsylvania. The Secretary will A message from the House of Representatives, by 1\Ir. W. J. call the roll. BROWNING, its Chief Clerk, announced that the House had dis­ The Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators an­ agreed to the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 13) swered to their names: making appropriations to supply deficiencies in the appropriations for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1897, and for prior years, and Bacon, Foraker, Nelson, Shoup, for other purposes, asks a conference with the Senate on the dis­ Butler, Gear, Pasco, Spooner, C:.trter Hale, Perkins, ~tewart, agreeing votes of the two Houses thereon, and had appointed Mr. Chandier, Hansbrough, Pettigrew, Teller, CANNON, Mr. NORTHWAY, and Mr. SAYERS managers at the con­ Chilton, Harris, Pettus, Tillman, ference on the part of the House. Clark, Hawley, Platt, Conn. Turner. Cockrell, Jones, AJ.'k. Pritchard, Turpie; UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, Cullom, Kenney, Proctor, Vest, Daniel, Mallory, Quay, White. Mr. HARRIS. I move that the Senate proceed to the consider­ Davis, Mills, Rawlins, ation of resolution No. 125, directing the Se~.:retary of the Treasury D bboe, Mitchell, Roach, to carry out p1·ovisions of the act authorizing an investigatio1;1 of Fairbanks, Morgan, Sewell, the books, accounts, and methods of railroads which have received The VICE-PRESIDENT. Forty·five Senators have answered aid from the United States, etc., by redeeming or otherwise clear­ to their names. A quorum is present. Petitions and memorials ing-off the paramount liens, mortgages, ~tc. I think we can act are in order. upon the resolution in a very short time. REFERENCE OF CLAIMS TO COMMITTEE ON CLAIMS. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Senator from Kansas asks consent · to take up Senate resolution 125. Is there objection? Mr. COCKRELL. I ask that the Committee on Appropriations Mr. HARRIS. I made a motion to that effect, and upon the shall be discharged from the further consideration of certain re­ motion I demand the yeas and nays. ports from the Secretary of the Treasury in regard to insurance The VICE·PRESIDENT. Is there objection? claims and other claims of that character, and that they be re­ Mr. JONES of Arkansas. The Senator from Kansas makes a ferred to the Committee on Claims. The clerks can collate them. motion. The VICE-PRESIDENT. Without objection, the order will be The VICE-PRESIDENT. There will be no us~ in putting the made. motion if there is no objection. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES. Mr. GEAR. I object. Mr. RAWLINS, from the Committee on Claims, to whom was The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Senator from Iowa interposes 1.' referred the bill (S. 1107) for the relief of Stewart College (now an objection. The Chair will put the motion. the Southwestern Presbyterian University), located at Clarksville, Mr. GEAR. I should like, before the motion is put, to hear the Tenn., reported it without amendment, and submitted a report gentlemen who advocate the resolution debate it a little. thereon. Mr. MILLS. No debate is in order. Mr. STEWART, from the Committee on Claims, to whom was Mr. JONES of Arkansas. It can not be debated on a motion to referred the bill (S. 1268) for the relief of the legal representatives take it up. and devisees of JamesW.Schaumberg,reporteditwithoutamend· Mr. GEAR. I think it can. ment, and submitted a report thereon. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The question is on the motion to pro­ Mr. DAVIS, from the Committee on Foreign Relations, to ceed to the consideration of the resolution, upon which debate is whom was referred the resolution submitted by Mr. BERRY on not in order. the 8th instant, reported a joint resolution for the relief of Ona Mr. GEAR. On that motion let us have the yeas and nays. Melton, Alfredo Laborde, and William Gildea. The yeas and nays were ordered; and the Secretary proceeded The joint resolution (8. R. 62) for the relief of Ona Melton, to call the roll. Alfredo Laborde, and William Gildea was read twice by its title. Mr. CULLOM (when his name was called). I have a general Mr. MITCHELL, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom pair with the senior Senator from Delaware (Mr. GRAY]. If he was referred the bill (S. 2378) granting a pension to Maria Somer­ were present, I should vote "nay." I will withhold my vote, bt, widow of Valentine Somerlat, reported it without amend­ however, for the present. ment, and submitted a report thereon. Mr. DANIEL (when his name was called). I am paired with 2582 .~ONGRESSIONAL ~ RECORD-SENATE.] JULY 14, the Senator from North Dakota [Mr. HANSBROUGH]. Otherwise Mr. GEAR. I withdraw the motion to adjourn. I should vote ''yea." 1\!r. COCKRELL. We can not have an executive session until Mr. KENNEY (when his name was called). I have a general we get a quorum. If the roll call will disclose a quorum, then th'e pair with the junior Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. PENROSE]. motion for an executive session can be made. I transfer that pair to the Senator from Idaho [Mr. HEITFELD], Mr. CHANDLER. No motion is in order excent a motion to and vote. I vote '' yea." adjourn. · - Mr. MILLS (when his name was called). I ampaired with the Mr. DAVIS. I was not aware of the parliamentary situation. Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. GALLINGER]. I transfer that Mr. GEAR. I renew my motion to adjourn. pair to the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. ALLEN], and vote" yea." Mr. WIDTE. Let us have the yeas and nays on the motion to Mr. PASCO (when his name was called). I am paired with the adjourn. Senator from Washington [Mr. WILSON]. I transfer that pair to The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Senator from Iowa moves that the Senator from Arkansas [Mr. BERRY], and vote" yea." the Senate do now adjourn. Mr. PETTUS (when his name was called). lam paired with Mr. JONES of Arkansas. On that I ask for the yeas and nays. the senior Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. HOAR]. The yeas and nays were ordered; and the Secretary proceeded to Mr. PLATT of New York (when his name was called). I am call the roll. paired with the senior Senator from New York [Mr. MURPHY], Mr. BACON (when his name was called). With the consent and withhold my vote. of the Senator from Iowa [Mr. GEAR], the same transfer will be Mr. PRITCHARD (when his name was called). I am paired made, and it will be binding during the day with his consent. I with the junior Senator from South Carolina [Mr. McLAURIN]. vote "nay." Therefore I withhold my vote. ~ Mr. CULLOM (when his name was called). I am paired with Mr. SPOONER (when his name was called). I have a general the Senator from Delaware [Mr. GRAY]. pair with the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. WALTHALL]. He is Mr. KENNEY (when his name was called): I make the same absent, and I therefm·e withhold my vote. I do not know bow he announcement of transfer of my pair with the junior Senator would vote if present. from Pennsylvania [Mr. PENROSE] to the Senator from Idaho The roll call was concluded. (1\fr. HEITFELD], and vote "nay." Mr. BUTLER {after having voted in the affirmative). I inquire 1\Ir. PASCO (when his name was called). I make the same ifthejuniorSenatorfrom Maryland [Mr. WELLL.~GTON] hasvoted? announcement of transfer of my pair as before, and vote "nay." The VICE-PRESIDENT. He has not voted. Mr. PRITCHARD (when his name was called). I am paired 1\{r. BUTLER. I wish to arrange a transfer of my pair with with the junior Senator from South Carolina [Mr. McLA.URIN], that Senator. and therefore withhold my vote. Mr. BACON (after having voted in the affirmative)." I have a Mr. RAWLINS (when hisnamewas called). lam paired with general pair with the jlinior Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. the junior Senator from Ohio {Mr. I!A.J.~NA]. WETMOREl, who, I believe, is absent. Mr. TURPIE (when his name was ealled). I again announce Mr. ALDRICH. If my colleague [Mr. WETMORE] werepresent, my pair with the senim; Senator from Vermont [Mr. MORRILL], he would undoubtedly vote "nay." who is absent. Mr. BACON. I was going to suggest to the jup.ior Senator The roll call was concluded. from Iowa fl\.[r. GEAR], who is paired with the senior Senator M.r. PETTUS. I am paired with the senior Senator from Mas· from New .fersey [Mr. SMITH], that we transfer our pairs so that sachusetts [Mr. HoAR]. If tlie exchange of pairs which was an· we can each vote. nounced on the last vote is allowed to stand, 1 will vote. Mr. GEAR. That is satisfactory. Mr. SPOONER. I have stated to the Senator from Alabama. Mr. BACON. With that arrangement, I will permit my vote Mr. PETTus) that I prefer to maintain my pair with the Senator to stand, although the Senator from Rhode Island is absent. from Mississippi [Mr. WALTHALL] on this question. Therefore .l.VIr. BUTLER. I am paired with the Senator from 1\faryland I stand paired with the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. W ALTHA.LL]. [Mr. WELLINGTON], but I transfer that pair to the Senator from The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Senator from Alabama can not 'l'ennessee [Mr. BATE], and will allow my vote to stand. then transfer his pair to the Senator from Mississippi, who bas Mr. TURPIE. I am paired with the senior Senator from Ver­ already been paired with the Senator from Wisconsin. mont rMr. MORRILL], and therefore withhold my vote. Mr. BUTLER (after having voted in the negative). I will an· Mr. PETTUS. I transfer my pair with the senior Senator from nounce that in voting "nay " I transferred my pair with the Massachusetts [Mr. HoAR] to the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. Senator from .Maryland [Mr. WELLINGTON] to the Senator from WALTHALL1. Tennessee [MI·. BATE]. Mr. SPOONER. The Senator from Alabama [Mr. PETTUS] is Mr. TURNER (after having voted in the negative). I have a paired with the Senat.or from Massachusetts [Mr. HoAR]. I am general pair with the Senator from Wyoming fMr. WARREN]. I paired with the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. W ALTHA.LL]. We voted thinking he was in the Chamber. I find he has not voted, tran~pose those .pairs, leaving the Senator from Alabama and however, and I withdraw my vote. myself at liberty to vote. Mr. BACON (after having voted in the negative). The junior Mr. PETTUS. I vote "yea." Senator from Iowa fMr. GEAR] withdraws the agreement which Mr. SPOONER. I vote "nay." he made with myself relative to the transfer of our respective Mr. ALDRICH (after having voted in the negative). I under­ pairs. I will state that under the agreement between the Senator stand that I have been paired with the Senator from Utah [Mr. from Rhocl.e Island [Mr. WETMORE] and myself, either of us has CA.NNON]. I did not know that I was paired on this question, I a right in his discretion to vote in matters nonpolitical I do not withdraw my vote. regard a motion to adjourn as a political question, and therefore The result was announced-yeas 24, nays 18; as follows: I will exercise that discretion and permit my vote to stand, al­ YEA8-24. though the arrangement is off as to the Senator from Iowa. Bacon, Jones, Ark. Nelson, Roach, Mr. MANTLE. I wish to inquire if the Senator from Virginia Butler, Kenney, Paseo, Teller. [Mr. MARTIN] has·voted? · Chilton, Mallory, Perkins, Tillman, Cockrell, Mills, Pettigrew, Turner, The VICE-PRESIDENT. He has not voted. . Foraker, Mitchell, Pettus, Vest, Mr. MANTLE. I have a general pair with that Senator, and Harris, Morgan, Rawlins, White. withhold my vote. NAY8-18. Mr. PETTUS. I should like to make an arrangement with the Allison, Davis, Platt, Conn. Spooner, Senator from Montana [Mr. MANTLE] for the transfer of our pairs, Burrows, Deboe, Proctor, Stewart, so that we can vote. Caffery, Fairbanks, Quay, Warren. Chandler, Gear, Sewell, Mr. MANTLE. I am willing to transfer my pair with the Sen­ Clark, Jones, Nev. Shoup, ator from Virginia [Mr. MARTIN] to the Senator from Massachu· NOT VOTING-46. setts [Mr. HOAR], sothattheSenatorfromAlabama [Mr. PETTUS] Aldrich, Frye, Lindsay, Platt,N. Y. and myself can vote. Allen, GaJ..li.nger, Lodge, Pritchard, Mr. PETTUS. I vote" nay." Baker, George, McBride, Smith, Bate, Gorman, McEnery, Thurston, Mr. MA.NTLE. I vote" nay." Berry, Gray, McLaurm, Turpie, The result was announc~-yeas 3, nays 35; as follows: Cannon, Hale, McMillan, Walthall, Carter, Ha.nna, Mantle, Wellington, YEAS-3. Clay, Hansbrough, Martin, Wetmore, Hale, Hawley, Quay. Cullom, Hawley, Mason., Wilson, Daniel, Heitfeld, Morrill, Wolcott. NAYS-35. Elkins, Hoar, Murphy, Allen, Fairbanks, Mason, Proctor, Faulkner, Kyle, Penrose, Bacon, Foraker, Roach Butler, Gallinger, ~· . ell, Sewell, The VICE-PRESIDENT. No quorum has voted. Chandler, Hansbrough, Morgan, Shoup, Mr. GEAR. I move that the Senate adjourn. Chilton., Harris, Nelson, Teller, Mr. WHITE. Let us have the yeas and nays on that motion. Cockrell, Jones, Ark. Pasco, Tillman. Daniel, Kenney, Perkins, Mr. DAVIS. I move that the Senate proceed to the conside.ra- , Davis, Mallory, Pettigrew, ~~. tion of executive business. Deboe, Mantle, Pettus, - ~ \ ) ·~ 1897.- CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2583

NOT VOTING-50. The VICE-PRESIDENT. Forty-seven Senators have answered ~drich, Faulkner, McBride, Spooner, to their names. A quorum is therefore present. The Secretary Allison, Frye, McEnery, Stewart, Baker, Gear, McLaurin, Thurston, will now call the roll on the motion of the Senator from Kansas ate George, Mcl\iillan, Turner, [Mr. HARRIS] to proceed to the consideration of the joint resolu­ erry, Gorman, :Martin, Turpie, tion reported by him. urrows, Gray, Morrill, Walthall, lCaffery, Hanna, :Murphy, Warren, Mr. COCKRELL. Have the conferees on the part of the Senate Cannon, Heitfeld, Penrose, Wellington, on the deficiency bill been appointed? Carter, Hoar, Platt, Conn. Wetmore, The VICE-PRESIDENT. There has been no motion made on Clark, Jones, Nev. Platt, N.Y. Wilson, that subject and it has not been taken up. Clay, Kyle, Pritchard, Wolcott. Cfullom, Lindsay, Rawlins, The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. Elkins, Lodge, Smith, Mr. GEAR (when his name was called). I announce my pair So the Senate refused to adjom·n. with the Senator from New Jersey [Mr. SMITH]. The VICE-PRESIDENT. No quorum appearing, the Secretary Mr. PASCO (when his name was called). I again announce will call the roll to disclose the presence of a quorum, if possible. the transfer of my pair with the Senator from Washington [Mr. The Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators an­ WILSON] to the Senator from Arkansas [Mr. BERRY], and vote swered to their names: "yea." Allen, Fairbanks, Mitchell, Sewell, Mr. PETTUS (when his name was called). Under the arrange­ Bacon, Foraker, Morgan, Shoup, ment made on the last vote, my pair with the Senator from Massa­ Baker, Gallinger, Nelson, Teller, chusetts [Mr. HoAR] has been transferred to the Senator from Butler Hale, Pasco, Tillman, Chandier, Hansbrough, Penrose, Turner, Virginia [l\Ir. MARTI~], which leaves me at liberty to vote. I Chilton, Harris, Perkins, Turpie, vote ''yea." Clark, Hawley, Pettigrew, Vest, Mr. PRITCHARD (when his name was called). I am paired Cockrell, Jones, Ark. Pritchard, White. Cullom, Kenney, Proctor, with the junior Senator from South Carolina [Mr. McLAURIN], Davis, Mallory, Rawlins, and therefore withhold my vote. Deboe, Mantle, Roach, Mr. TURNER (when his name was called). I am paired with The VICE-PRESIDENT. On this roll call 41 Senators have the Senator from Wyoming [1\fr. W .ARREN]. answered to their names. There is not a quorum of the Senate Mr. TURPIE (when his name was called). I again announce present. my pair with the senior Senator from Vermont [Mr. MoRRILL], M.r. HARRIS. I move that the Sergeant-at-Arms be directed who is absent, and therefore I withhold my vote. to request the attendance of absent Senators, in order that the The roll call was concluded. public bUsiness may proceed. Mr. KENNEY (after having voted in the affu·mative). I have The VICE-PRESIDENT. The question is on the m(}tion of the a general pair with the junior Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. Senator from Kansas that the Sergeant-at-Arms be directed tore­ PE.''~'ROSE], but I transfer that pair to the Senator from Idaho (Mr. quest the attendance of absent Senators. HEITFELD 1, and will allow my vote to stand. Mr. GEAR. I call for the yeas and nays on that motion. Mr. MILLS (after having voted in the affirmative). I am The yeas and nays- were ordered; and the Secretary proceeded paired with the Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. GA-LLINGER]. to call the roll. I do not see him in the Chamber, and therefore I withdraw my Mr. CULLOM (when his name was called). I am paired with vote. the Senator from Delaware [Mr. GRAY]. 1\Ir. McENERY (after having voted in the affirmative). I am Mr. GEAR (when his name was called). I am paired with the paired with the Senator fi·om New Hampshire [Mr. CHANDLER], senior Senator fi·om New Jersey [Mr. SMITH] . . who, I am informed, has not voted, and therefore I withdraw my :Mr. PRITCHARD (when his name was called). I am paired vote. _ with the junior Senator from South Carolina [Mr. McLAURIN], Mr. PLATT of New York (after having voted in the negative). and therefore withhold my vote. - l voted by mistake. I am paired with the senior Senator from Mr. SPOONER (when his name was called). I announce once New York [Mr. MURPHY], and therefore withdraw my vote. for all my pair with the Senator fi·om Mississippi [Mr. W ALTHA{..L] , .M:r. BACON (after having voted in the affirmative). I trans­ who is absent. fer my general pair with the junior Senator from Rhode Island Mr. TURNER (when his name was called). I am paired with rMr. WETMOREj on this vote to the Senator fi·om South Dakota . the Senator from Wyoming [Mr. W ARRE..."'i], and therefore with­ [Mr. KYLE], and will let my vote stand. hold my vote. Mr. MANTLE. I have a general pair with the Senator from :Mr. TURPill (when his name was called). I am paired with Virginia [Mr. ~1ARTIN], which was transferred on the last vote to the senior Senator from Vermont [Mr. MORRILL], who is absent, the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. HoAR], and l will again and I therefore withhold my vote. vote under that arrangement. I vote "yea." The roll call was concluded. Mr. ALLEN (after having voted in the affirmative). I under­ Mr. RAWLINS (after having voted in the affirmative). I am stand the Senator from Oregon [Mr. McBRIDE] is not present, paired with the Senator from Ohio [Mr. HANNA], who, I am in­ and it has been agreed that he should be protected in his vote. I formed, is absent; and therefore I withdraw my vote. stand paired with that Senator on this question, and will with­ The result was announced-yeas 33, nays 0; as follows: draw my vote. YEAS-Bit Mr. CULLOM. I again announce my pair with the senior Allen, Davis, Mantle, Roach, Senator from Delaware [Mr. GRAY]. · Bacon, Fairbanks, Mills, Sewell, Mr. CHILTON. I am paired with the Senator from Minnesota Baker, Foraker, Mitchell, Teller, [Mr. DAVIS] on strictly political questions. I do not see him Butler, Gallinger, Morgan, Tillman, Oarter, Han.'l brough, Pasco, Vest, present, but not esteeming this to be a political question, I shall Ohandler, Harris, Penrose, White. vote. I vote " yea." Chilton, Jones, Ark. Perkins, The result was announced-yeas 23, nays 12; as follows: Cockrell, Kenney, Pettigrew, Daniel, Mallory, Proctor, YEAS-23. NAYS---n. Bacon, Harris, Morgan, Roach, Butler, Jones, Ark. Nelson, '.reller, NOT VOTING-55. Carter, Kenney, Pasco, Tillman, Aldrich, Gear, McEneqr, · Shoup, Chilton, :Mallory, Perkins, Vest, Allison, George, McLaurm, Smith, Cockrell, Mantle, Pettigrew, White. Bate, Gorman, McMillan, Spooner, Foraker, Mitchell, Pettus, Berry, Gray, Martin, Stewart, NAYS-12. Burrows, Hale, Mason, Thurston; Caffery, Hanna, Morrill, Turner, Allison, Deboe, Jones, Nev. Proctor, Cannon, Hawley, Murphy, Turpie, Caffery, Fairbanks, :Mason, Sewell, Clark, Heitfeld, Nelson, Walthall, Clark, Hawley, Platt, Conn. Shoup. Clay, Hoar, Pettus, Warren, NOT VOTING-53. Oullom, Jones, Nev. Platt, Conn. Wellington, Deboe, Kyle, Platt, N.Y. Wetmore, Aldrich, Friiht McBride, Spooner, Elkins, Lmdsay, Pritchard, Wilo;on, Allen, Ga · ger, .McEnery, Stewart, Faulkner, Lodge, Quay, Wolcott. Baker, Gear, McLaurm, Thurston, Frye, McBride, Rawlins, Bate, George, McMillan, Turner, Berry, Gorman, Martin, Turpie, So the motion was agreed to. Burrows, Gray, Mills, Walthall, The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Sergeant-at-Arms will execute Cannon, Hale, Morrill, Warren, Chandler, Hanna, Murphy, Wellington, the order of the Senate. Clat, Hansbrough, Penrose, Wetmore, After a little delay, Mr. PLATT of New York, Mr. ALLISON, Cul om, Heitfeld, Platt, N.Y. Wilson, Mr. BuRROWS, Mr. JoNES of Nevada, Mr. PLATT of Connecticut, Daniel, Hoar, Pritchard, Wolcott. D:1.vis, Kyle, ~uay, and Mr. McENERY entered the Chamber and answered to their Elkins, Lindsay, awlins, names. Faulkner, Lodge, Smith,

'. ( ( 2584 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JULY 14,

The VICE-PRESIDENT. A quorum is not present and voting. The Secreta1·y called the roll, and the following Senators an· The Secretary will call the roll to disclose the presence of a quorum. swered to their names: The Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators an­ Allen, Gear, Mitchell, Roach, swered to their names: Bacon, Hale, Morgan, Sewell, Butler, Hansbrough, Morrill, Shoup. Allen, Fairbanks, Mills, Roach, Caffery, Harris, Nelson, Spooner, Bacon, Foraker, Mitchell, Sewell, Carter, Hawley, Pasco, . Teller, Butler, Gear, Morgan, Shoup, Chilton, Jones, Ark. Penrose, Tillman, Caffery, Hale, N elson, Teller, Cockrell, Kenney, Perkins, Turner, Carter, Hannn., Pasco, Tillman, Daniel, McEnery, Pe t tigrew~ Turpie, Chilton, Hansbrough, Perkins, Turner, Davis, Mallory, Pettus, V est, Clark, Harris, Pettigrew, Turpie, Deboe, Mantle, Platt, N. Y. White. Cockrell, Hawley, Pettus. Vest, Fairbanks, Mason, Pritchard, Cullom, Jones, Ark. Platt. N.Y. White. Foraker, Mills, Rawlins, Daniel, Kenney; • Pritchard, The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. JONES of Arkansas in the Davis, Mallory, Proctor, Mantle, Rawlins, chair). Forty-six Senators have answer~d to their names. A Deboe, quorum is present. The question recurs on the motion of the Sen­ The VICE-PRESIDENT. A quorum of the Senate is present, ator from Kansas [:Mr. HARRIS] to procl:'ed to the consideration of 45 Senators having answered to their names. the joint resolution, on which the 13ecretary will call the roll. Mr. HALE. I ask that the message from the House of Repre­ The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. sentatives in relation to a conference on the deficiency appropria­ Mr. BACON (when his name was called). I again announce tion bill be laid before the Senate. the transfer of the pair between the junior Senator from Rhode Mr. ALLEN. How can that be done when there is a question Island rMr. WETMORE] and myself to the junior Senator from before the Senate? South :Oakota rMr. KYLE]' and I will vote. I vote ,, yea." The VIG"E-PRESIDENT. There is a question pending. Mr. BUTLER (when his name was called). According to the Mr. HALE. It can be done only by unanimoqs consent, of announcement heretofore made, I transfer my pair with the junior course. Senator from Maryland [Mr. WELLINGTON] to the Senator from Mr. ALLEN. Let us settle the other matter first. I object. Tennessee [Mr. BATE], and I shall vote under this arrangement The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Secretary will call the roll on until ftuther notice is given. I vote "yea.." the motion of the Senator from Kansas [Mr. HARRIS] to proceed Mr. CULLOM (when his name was called). I have a general to the consideration of the joint resolution. pair with the senior Senator from Delaware [Mr. GRAY]. On The Secretary proceeded to call the roll. the last roll call I voted without thinking of my pair, although I Mr. ALLEN (when his name was called). I am paired with have authority to vote in order to make a quorum, if it becomes the Senator from Oregon [Mr. McBRIDE]. necessary. But I will withhold my vote for the present. Mr. BACON (when his name was called). I transfer my pair Mr. GEAR (when his name was called). I have a general pair with the junior Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. WETMORE] to with the senior Senator from New Jersey [Mr. SMITH]. the junior Senator from South Dakota [Mr. KYLE], and vote Mr. McENERY (when his name was called). I am paired with ''yea." the Senator from New Hampshh·e [Mr. CHANDLER], and there­ Mr. GEAR (when his name was called). I am paired with the fore withhold my vote. Senator from New Jersey [Mr. SMITH]. Mr. MALLORY (when his name was called). I am paired Mr. MALLORY (when his name was called). I am paired with with the junior Senator from Vermont [Mr. PROCTOR]. If he the junior Senator from Vermont [Mr. PROCTOR]. were present, I should vote "yea." Mr. MILLS (when his name was called). I am paired with the Mr. PETTUS (when hisnaine was called). Under the arrange­ Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. GALLINGERJ. If he were ment heretofore announced, I will vote. I vote " yea." present, I should vote " yea." :Mr. PRITCHARD (when his name was called). I am paired Mr. PETTUS (whenhis name was called). Under the arrange­ with the junior Senator from South Carolina [Mr. McLAURIN], ment of pairs heretofore announced by the Senator from Montana and therefore withhold my vote. [Mr. MANTLE] , I will vote. I vote ''yea." · Mr. TURNER (when his name was called). I am paired with Mr. PLATT of New York (when his name was called). I again the Senator from Wyoming (.M:r. WARREN]. announce my general pair with the senior Senator from New The roll call was concluded. York [Mr. MURPHY]. Mr. CULLOM. In order to make a quorum, I will cast my vote. Mr. PRITCHARD (when his name was called). I again an­ I vote" yea," supposing that if the Senator from Delaware [Mr. nounce my pair with the junior Senator from South Carolina GRAY], with whom I am paired, were present, he would vote that way. [Mr. McLAURI~]. • Mr. TILLMAN. I will say to the Senator from North Caro­ Mr. ALLEN. On this question I am paired with the Senator lina that if my colleague were present he would vote "yea,, and from Oregon [Mr. McBRIDE], and therefore withhold my vote. the Senator from North Carolina can act accordingly, whether he If he were present, I should vote "yea." is opposed to or in favor of the joint resolution. . The result was announced-yeas 27, nays 9; as follows: Mr. RAWLINS (when his name was called). I am paired with YEAS-27. . Bacon, Foraker, MiTis; Roach, the Senator from Ohio [Mr. HANNA]. Butler, Gallinger, Mitchell, Teller, . Mr. TURNER (when his name was called). I again announce Carter, Harris, Morgan, Tillman, my pair witll the Senator from Wyoming [Mr. WARREN]. Chilton. Hawley, Pa.sco, Turpie, Cockrell, Jones, Ark. Perkins, Vest, Therollcall having been concluded, the result was announced­ Cullom, Kenney, Pettigrew, White. yeas 20, nays 9; as follows·: Daniel, Mantle, Pettus, YEAs-20. NAYS-9. Caffery, Fairbanks, 1\Iorrill, Sewell, Bacon, Foraker, Morgan, Roach, Davis, Hale, Penrose, Shoup. Butler, Harris, Nelson, Teller, Deboe, Chilton, Jones, Ark. Pasco, Tillman, NOT VOTING-52. Cockrell, Mantle, Perkins, Vest, Aldrich, Frye, McBride, Quay, Daniel, Mitchell, Pettus, White. Allen, Gear, - McEnery, B:awlins, Allison, George, McLaurm, Smith, NAYS-9. Baker, Gorman, McMillan, Spooner, Bate, Gray, Mall~ry, Stewart, Caffery, Deboe, Hale~ Hawley, Berry, Hanna, Mar tm, Thurston, Cullom, Fairbanks, Hansbrough, Sewell. Burrows, Hansbrough, Mason, Turner, Davis, Cannon, Heitfeld, Murphy, Walthall, NOT VOTING--59. Chandler, Hoar, Nelson, Warren, Clark, Jones, Nev. Platt, Conn. Wellington, Aldrich, Gallinger, McLaurin, Rawlins, Clay, Kyle, Plat t , N. Y. Wetmore, · Allen, Gear, McMillan, Shoup, Elkins, Lindsay, Pritchard, Wilson, Allison, George, Mallory, Smith, Faulkner, Lodge, Proctor, Wolcott. Baker, Gorman, Martin, Spooner, Bate, Gray, Mason, Stewart, The PRESIDING' OFFICER. No quorum having voted, the Berry, Hanna, Mills, Thurston, Secretary will call the roll of the Senate. Burrows, Heitfeld, Morrill, Turner, The Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators an­ Cannon, Hoar, Murphy, Turpie, Carter, Jones, Nev. Penrose, Walthall, swered to their names: ChaBdler, Kenney, Petti~·ew, Warren, Allen, Deboe, McEnery, Roach, Clark, Kyle, Platt Conn. Wellington, Allison, Fairbanks, Mallory, Sewell, Clay, Lindsay, Platt, N.Y. Wetmore, Bacon, Foraker, Mantle, Shoup, Elkins, Lodge, Pritchard, Wilson, Butler, Gallinger, Mason, Spooner, Faulkner, McBride, Proctor, Wolcott. Caffery, Gear, Mitchell, Teller, Frye, McEnery, Quay, Chilton, Hale, Nelson, Tillman, Cockrell, Harris, Pasco, Turner, Cullom, Hawley, Perkins, Turpie, The VICE-PRESIDENT. No quorum has voted. The Secre­ Daniel, Jones, Ark. Pettigrew, tary will call the roll. Davis, Kenney, Pettus, ~te. ·,. 1897.

our great and distinguished generals of the Army of the United opportunity of getting an expression of the voice of• the Senate States~ I regret that any-occasion has arisen in the Senate, at this upon this subject. late day of the session, when it is necessary for me to make a Mr. President, it is late in this session to commence filibuster­ statement of the ground upon which I am willing to consent to ing operations, and especially where it is for the purpose of shut­ the-passg,ge of a resolution of this kind. ting out the light and preventing inquiry. I do not believe the If I were to pursue the course that is observed by some of the people of the United States are going to be happy, to say the least members of the Senate on the other side of the Chamber, I would of it, I do not believe they will be at all satisfied with the Senate object to the consideration of the joint resolution, and would re­ of the United States if we permit this transaction to go on as_it sort, as they have resorted, to filibustering for the purpose of pre­ is and permit ourselves to cover it up against inquiry. What we venting its passage. But, sir, I conceive that every member of want on this question is light, not injustice. There is not a man the Senate of the United States has some patriotic duty to perform. in the Senate who wants to do anybody injustice in regard to this The resolution against which this filibuster has occurred was business. But, sir, it is asking too much of human nature, to the unanimous report of the Committee on Pacific Railroads, of say nothing of Senatorial responsibility, for us to sit by here and which the Senator from Iowa [Mr. GEARl is the chairman. That have transactions of this kind matured into decrees and judg­ honorable Senator has conducted this fifibuster against the joint ments of the court upon agreed cases, and the like of that, without resolution of his own. It seems that we are to stay here indefi­ interposing even an inquiry into it. nitely for the purpose of getting the consent of a few members of This proceeding originated on the 14th day of January, 1897, the Senate to pass a joint resolution which has already commanded just before the conclusion of the last session of Congress. It was on several occasions a distinct vote of a majority of this body. quite a while before we got any knowledge of it at all. We never The joint resolution is a very simple one. It requests the Pres­ got any knowledge of it until we addressed a resolution of this ident of the United States to suspend proceedings in the courts for body to the Executive requiring the Attorney-General to make a the purpose of foreclosing the mortgages on the Union Pacific report of what had been done. That resolution, when it was re­ Railroad upon the ground that the former President of the United sponded to, was answered in the way that I have stated. States had no authority, no ~ight in law, to transfer to Fitzgerald I think this side of the Chamber and the friends on the other seventeen and odd million dollars out of the sinking fund of the side of the Chamber of the resolution reported by the Senator Union Pacific Railroad Company in order to enable him to buy from Kansas have shown that they are willing to do any patri­ this property. It has .been pointed out in debate here that the otic ad or duty required of them by the Government of the information lodged in the Attorney-General's Office is entirely United States. There will be no disposition on the part of any meager. We ~ve made every effort that the committee and the Senator on this side of the Chamber to retaliate upon the bills Senate could make to get full information in regard to this trans­ which are coming in here, whether they are appropriation.bills or action. Up to this time we have not been able to get it. The whether they are tariff bills. But the Senate is acting, it seems p1.atter is in the dark, it is hidden behind clouds and obstructions to me, without due consideration and wisdom when it provokes that we can not penetrate, and it is necessary for public justice the opportunity of retaliation. We will show on this side of the and for the preservation of the rights of the people of the United Chamber, I have no doubt, a forbearance to resort to these un­ States at least that Congress should have some opportunity to pass usual methods. upon the subject. Mr. HALE. Mr. President-- This transaction, in the ordinary course of legislation and ad­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Alabama ministration of the Government, being so very weighty, such an yield to the Senator from Maine? enormously heavy transaction, would have been laid before by Mr. HALE. I rise to a question of order. the President of the United States before Congress and the advice The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Maine will of Congress would have been taken about it. But the Pre8ident state his point of order. of the United St.ates saw proper to take his own course and to Mr. HALE. The Senator from Alabama appears to be discuss­ conduct an arrangement which even now is not to be traced upon ing the question of the resolution of the Senator from Kansas in the archives or the records of the Attorney-General's Department reference to the Pacific rail;-oads. I had hoped thatwewere com­ or of any other Department of the United States Government. ing· to a vote upon that, and that a majority of the Senate was The Committee on Pacific Railroads conceived it to be an una­ inclined to take it up. The Senator from New Jersey, as I under- yoid.able duty that they should bring forward this joint resolution 8tood it, asked unanimous consent to take up a matter entirely and request the present Executive to suspend proceedings on the outside, with reference to the statue of General Sherman, that matter until an investigation of it could be had. Some argument would give rise to no debate, and the Senator in charge of the has been made here upon the question by myself and by others, other resolution gave way, I supposed, upon that supposition. and no response has come from any Senator as yet showing that Of course the motion to take up is not a debatable question. there was any lawful authority for this conduct on the part of the I shall not debate it, but it has been intimated to me by other ~revious Administration, or showing that it was in any way at all Senators that if the railroad question is to be debated upon the JUStified by the condition of the railroad or by public necessity. proposition of the Senator from New Jersey, it will be generally That railroad to-day is sol vent and able to be sold for money debated, and we shall never reach ft vote on the resolution of the enough, if we want to sell it, to pay all of its debts of every kind Senator from Kansas. I think the Senator will see that if he and character. The very men who have entered into this agree­ opens the question and debates this subject, other Senators will ment with the President of the United States, or rather the At­ reply, and that we never shall come to a vote upon that re8olution. torney-General, have prepared a company to receive the title to I should like to see a vote taken here and now, with a quorum of this property and they have va-lued it at $100,000,000, of which the Senate present, on the proposition of the Senator from Kansas. ~'75,000,000 was set apart for the purpose of extinguishing mort­ It is a Senate resolution. It will do no great harm if it is taken gages, liens, and the like of that, and $25,000,000 go to the pro­ up. If the majority of the Senate want to take it up, let it be moters. That ought to be enough to satisfy the Senate of the taken up. United States that there is an extreme sacrifice made here, when, Mr. MORGAN. I never get the floor of the Senate to make if we carry out the agreement of the President, Mr. Cleveland, or any remark in which the Senator from Maine does not concur permit it to be carried out, we receive into the Treasury of the that I am not out of order. I am strictly in order. United States on account of this railroad and all of its property of Mr. HALE. I ask the Senator whether on the matter called up every kind and character only $28,000,000. by the Senator from New Jersey, which was to give rise to no ·rt is not quite that. It is the difference between$28,000,000 and debate, as stated, the Senator himself thinks that he ought to $100,000,000, taking it at their own price, taking it at what they open the general question for discussion, when we might get a priced this property before they permit it to go into this new cor­ vote at once on the motion of the Senator from Kansas? poration that they are attempting to organize under the laws of The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Maine, the Utah. Chair understands, does not make a point of order. The Senator We have not even got those laws. We have not had time to get makes an appeal, the Chair understands, to the Senator frcnn them. We have only ascertained from statements in the news­ Alabama, and does not make a:r;1y point of order. ~pers that those laws exist. I speak from statements made in :Mr. HALE. I do not know, Mr. President. I was rather mys­ the newspapers and not from any statement that is found in the tified. I thought that we were considering, by unanimous con­ Attorney-General's Office. There is no formulation of the agree­ sent, a question that would give rise to no debate, and that the ment between the Government of the United States and Fitzger­ Senator from Kansas ooave way on that account. ~ld, who professes to be the chairman of the committee of reOI·gani- The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair will state for the in­ ~ation of the Union Pacific Railroad. - formation of the Senator from M.aine, that the Senator from New That agreement is contained, as I remarked to the Senate the Jersey asked unanimous consent to take up a resolution, and unan­ her day, in four letters, one of which is absent from the files; imous consent was given. nother of which appears not to have been signed. This great Mr. MORGAN. Not unanimous consent that it should not be eansaction is rested upon that loose procedure, and we are now debated. 'shut off by a filibuster conducted by the Senator from Iowa, the Mr. President, the Senator from Maine says he is mystified. I ~hair:w.an of the committee that reported this resolution, from the am ready to debate that. Enough has occurred here this morning \ 1897. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. . 2587 to mystify almost anybody who has a patriotic sense of duty the foreclosure of the Union Pacific Railway Company, that I en­ with regard to the business of the Senate of the United States; deavored to present my case fairly, clearly, logically, and dispas­ and I was only availing myself of this opportunity to appeal to sionately; that I was prevented from closing that debate, and that our patriotism in respect to the great general we were to do honor the action of the Senate upon that resolution was obstructed by to, to argue the ·analogy, and from the analogy the duty of the the sole objection of the Senator from Alabama to giving me the Senate of the United States to proceed with the business of the unanimous consent of this body to continue for half an hour to body without resorting to the miserable project of filibustering, the conclusion of my presentation. which has been resorted to this morning by the chairman of the Mr. MORGAN. Has the Senator printed his speech? Committee on Pacific Railroads. Mr. THURSTON. No, Mr. President, I have not printed my That is all I was doing, and I think it is a legitimate ground of speech; jt having been interrupted by the Senator from Alabama, appeal now, inasmuch as the proposition is before this body to do made it impossible for it to be printed as a concluded argument. honor to the great general who is dead, that we should also in the I have withheld it from the RECORD, and shall, if the Senator same patriotic spirit try to do justice to the people of the United from Alabama ever permits me, or gives me a chance to proceed, ' States and to the present Executive of the United States, so as to endeavor to conclude it and have it all p1'inted in the RECORD. bring about a suspension of action upon this contract until the This question was before the Senate at the last session. Senate and the Congress of the United States can look into the Mr. MORGAN. This question? subj-ect; that is alL I am not arguing as to what ought to be done Mr. THURSTON. This samequestion. Lookattheresolution with the resolution or what ought to have been done with th.J3 con­ presented by my colleague, the Senator from Nebraska, asking a tract after we have got our consent to look into it. But I was in suspension of proceedings in the court for the very purpose ihat hopes, inasmuch as there had been an opportunity furnished for a is now urged on the part of those in charge of this resolution-the cessation for a momen t of the belligerent spirit of partisanship in same question was up, and my colleague from Nebraska made a the Senate, that I could use the particular measure that is now strong argument here, as good an argument as has ever been made before the Senate as a basis of argument and an .appeal also to on that side of the question, insisting that the President of the Senators in this body that after we have passed the pending reso­ United States had no right to enter into the arrangement-the lution we shall return to our duty and cease to filibust-er and take same arrangement that is now presented by the report of this a test vote on the question propounded in the joint resolution committee. reported by the Senator from Kansas. Every letter that has been read in this discussion was read then. 1\Ir. THURSTON. Mr. President, the great difficulty about The situation·is not changed. It is the same question. The Sen­ the subject-matter which the Senator from Alabama has brought ator from Alabama by his single objection, when the whole Sen­ before the Senate under the claim of discussing the pending joint ate was willing to give the unanimous consent to proceed to the resolution ·is that Senators who are advocating the passage of the conclusion of my argument, stopped me then and there. That joint resolution reported from the Committee on Pacific Railroads resolution and its consideration went by the board because other have always insisted upon occupying whatever time there was business got in the way of it. I had no purpose at that time~ I that might be taken for discussion of that question, and have never have no purpose now, if there can be time given for what I believe left any time up to the _present for any discussion or any presenta- to be necessary debate on this subject, to objeyt to the considera­ tion of the other side. . tion of the resolution. I have only to recall the attention of the Senate to what tran­ Mr. President, let me state the present situation. All the mort­ sph·ed here at the last session. This is not a new matter for con­ gage lien holders of the Union Pacific Railway Company, includ­ sideration or discussion. It was all presented here by two reso­ ing the GGvernment of the United States, are now in court on lutions introduced by my colleague, the Senator from Nebraska bills filed, each mortgagee asking for foreclosure .and a determina­ fMr. ALLEN], at the last session. Those resolutions drew out tion by the court, a court of the United States, of .the priority of from several Senators upon this floor considerable discussion. All liens; all lien holders, including the United States, are asking for of the facts, all of the letters, all of the proceedings that are now an adjudication as to the amounts respectively duethem, and ask­ again brought before the Senate were before the Senate at that ing for the ordinary, public, open-to-all bidders' sale nf the prop­ time. erty and a distribution of the assets in accordance with the decree Mr. President, I wish to recall a little of the history of that di~ of the court and the equities of the case. cussi.on. The Senator from Alabama [Mr. MO.RGAN] put an end The issues are all made; the proof has all been taken; the Gov­ to it, and prevented the consideration of that resolution at the ernment appeared by ex-Governor Hoadly, of New York City, its last session of Congress when I had announced on this floor that special counsel, and by Hon.John C. Cowen, of Omaha, itss_pecial I was within thirty minutes of the end of my presentation in op­ -counsel. It has presented its·case in court. I do not know what position to the resolution of my colleague. When unanimous con­ the decree will be; I do not care what the decree may be; but I do sent was asked at the expiration of the morning hour, that I might know that the Government, like any other lien holder, is now in be permitted to proceed and conclude my speech on that subject, that court with its case, with its claim, with its equities, with its every Senator upon this flom· gave unanimous consent except the issues, asking, like the other mortgagees, for whatever decree is :in Senator from .Alabama. accordance with the equities of the case ~ Mr. MORGAN. Will the Senator allow me to ask him how That is where the Government of the United States ought to many days he had been speaking on it then? be; that is the only tribunal on the face of tha earth where this Mr. THURSTON. I had not spoken more than one-tenth of question ought to be considered and determined and adjudicated. the time usually occupied by the Senator from Alabama for the Is there any fear that any just claim, that any just equity~ that discussion of an unimportant ·subject. any legal right of the Government of the United States will not Mr. MORGAN1 The Senator had spoken for four consecutive receive due consideration and fair adjudication by the courts of days in the morning hour. the United States? What Senator says there is any danger on Mr. THURSTON. I announced on this floor then that I was that score? within thirty minutes of the conclusion of an argument that I Now, Mr. President, there is a guaranty, secured by a deposit endeavored to make logical, fair, temperate, and plain. of four millions and a half of money, that on the mortgage sale Mr. MORGAN. If the Senator will allowmeto interrupt him, when the property is put up, free to all bidders, there shall be a inasmuch as he.1·aises the question-- bid at least sufficient in amount to net the Government of the The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Serurlor from Nebraska United States $45,000,000 on its claim. Its 'Claim, including in­ yi-eld to the Senator from Alabama? terest paid, is about 68,000,000. That is all the agreement there Mr. THURSTON. Yes, air. is, Mr. President. The Government made no agreement except M.r. MORGAN. I made an objection to the Senator continuing that it would go into court with its claim and submit it as any on that morning because there was a very important matter be­ other creditor would and should to an adjudication. fore the Senate, and the Senator had occupied four days in the The Government has for its protection to-day a guaranty, discussion of .a resolution upon which it was utterly impossible to backed by·afonr-million-and-a-half deposit, that somebody on that get a vote. I wanted the time of the Senate for something else sale will bid enough to net the Government of the United States besides listening to his speech. $45,000,000 on its claim. The Senator from Alabama says that Mr. THURSTON. l\1r. President. that is the trouble with the that is not enough. Well, Mr. President, then let those who think Senator from .Alabama. We have sat here for days and days and it is not enough put up a like guaranty to bid more. weeks and months and listened patiently to all possible discus­ My objection to this resolution is that by its passage the pro­ sions on the part of the Senator from Alabama, and some of us, ·Ceeding in court is delayed and the Government faith, by virtueJ younger in the service of the Senate than the Senator from Ala­ of which it secured this guaranty bid, is broken, and the guar­ bama, have sometimes thought that possibly we had some 1·ights anty to make the bid falls to the ground; and whenever a mort­ upon this floor at some time and on some questions to occupy a gage sale takes place, whether now orin twenty years from now, I little of the time, even if it did curtail the lengthy remarks of the fear and I believe that there will never be secured anything like Senator from Alauama. the bid that is now guaranteed and that will be madeif this so­ I reiterate that I was the only Senator upon this flom· at the last .call€d arrangement is carried out. session who had any avowed purpose of discussing the question of Mr. President, what I insist is that before any .man shall lose 2588 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JUL:Y 14,

this guaranty to the United States, before any man shall lose the Mr. GEAR. I shall be glad, for one, to have that done. opportunity to secure at least $45,000,000 at an early date on the Mr. CULLOM. The Senator from Kansas consented that the Government claim, somebody, backed up by millions likewise, resolution might be taken up and acted upon. shall come to the front and . put up a similar guaranty that a Mr. GEAR. I thank the Senator from Kansas for giving way better bid will be made at some future time. to that, and I shall be glad to see that resolution adopted. We The Senator from Alabama in all this discussion has criticised are all interested in it. not only the business judgment, not only the legal ability, but the Mr. HARRIS. I did' not suppose there would be any debate on honesty of every officer of the late Administration who had any- this matter when I gave way to the Senator from New Jersey [Mr. thing to do with this litigation between the Government and the SEWELL]; but as statements have been made on this floor, I must Union Pacific Railway Company. • beg the indulgence of the Senate for just a few moments that I Mr. President, it is not my purpose to discuss the case now. I mayreplyin the briefestpossiblewaytotheSenatorfromNebraska. only say what I do in answer to the Senator from Alabama that [Mr. THURSTON]. the Senate may know and that the country may know who it is Mr. CULLOM. I hope the Senator will do that later, and will that has filibustered, if there has been any filibustering, against·a allow the resolution which the Senate consented should be taken speedy determination of this question by the Senate. The Sena- up to be passed without delay. tor from Alabama by his single objection blocked its determina- Mr. WHITE. I might suggest a method out of this difficulty, tion at the last session. If the Senate has no objection to allowing the proposition of the I bring this matter now before the Senate also in order that the Senator from Kansa-s to come up, so that it may be discussed, Senate may see, and that the country may see, that the whole aim then, of course, he can make his remarks; but if now we dispose of of those who are seeking the passage of this resolution is to defeat the other matter, then it will be necessary for us to take up some the guaranty that the Government now has of aforty-five-million- new subject in order to enable him to be in order. dollar bid upon this property, and no man can point me to any- Mr. GEAR. I shall not object to the Senator from Kansas one, with a million behind him, who will guarantee that a better having all the time he wants to discuss this matter. I shall be bid will ever be made at any future time. very glad to hear him .. When we let go of that great advantage which we now possess, Mr. CULLOM. I supposed it was understood that the resolu- I wish to know that some other capitalist, either now or next tion of the Senator from Kansas was coming before the Senate for month or next year, stands ready to make a better bid. If we consideration at once. redeem the first mortgage and invest $34,000,000 more in the Union Mr. HARRIS. That is what I understood. Pacific Ra-ilway Company, I want to know that when it is eventu- Mr. CULLOM. In view of that, I ask that the resolution in ally put up for sale at an open bid, now, next month, next year, or relation to the statue of General Sherman may be first acted upon. in three years, some capitalist stands ready to bid more. I have no objection to the resolution of the Senator from Kansas Mr. President, I have unwittingly been drawn into a little pre- coming before the Senate and being disposed of. liminary discussion of this question. For my part, I have never Mr. MORGAN. I suggest to the Senator to put that in the had any objection to having this matter come up at any time when form of a request for unanimous consent. it could receive fair, deliberate, ·and careful consideration. I at- Mr. SEWELL. It can not possibly take more than a moment tempted to discuss it at the last session. I failed in my object. I to dispose of the resolution in relation to the statue of General shall attempt to discuss it if it comes up at this session of Con- Sherman. I object to all this debate on that resolution, because it gress. I may fail in my object; but I sincerely trust, Mr. Presi- is not germane to it, and I ask the Senate to act upon the resolu· dent, that I will not fail because of any similar objection to that tion. • which stopped my speech at the last session of Congress. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair has no power to con- Mr. GEAR. Mr. President, the Senator from Alabama [Mr. trol the right of Senators to debate the question. It is before the MoRGAN] has charged, very unfairly, I think, that I have at- Senate for consideration, and, in the opinion of the Chair, Sena· tempted t-o hinder the consideration of this resolution. When an tors have a right to discuss it if they see fit to do so. effort was made to bring it before the Senate this morning, I de- Mr. WHITE. I will suggest, that there may be no misunder­ manded the yeas and nays on it, which disclosed that there was standing about this matter, that the unanimous consent of the no quorum present. The roll was then called to ascertain if a ~senate be given to the consideration of the resolution of the Sena· q.uorum was present, and no quorum appeared, and no quorum tor from New Jersey rMr. SEWELL], and that then the resolution has been present from that time to this. I resent most stren- of the Senator from Kansas [Mr. HARRIS] be taken up. uously the charge made by the Senator from Alabama, so far as I Mr. THURSTON. On yesterday afternoon a motion was made am concerned. to adjourn until Thursday for the purpose of permitting the return There is something in this resolution, Mr. President, which I to the Senate of the absent Senators and others who had taken ad· think demands the attention of the Senate and demands theatten- vantage of this little interim to be away. I wish this question to tion of the country. The fact stands out that this Government be discussed, when it is discussed, before a full Senate. I would has over $33,000,000, nearly $34,000,000, invested in these subsidy not have interposed an objection if the Senate had adjourned over bonds, a part of which are paid, and we are called upon by this last ni?:ht, as it seemed to me it ought to have done, until Thursday, resolution, in so far as the judgment of this branch of Congress is when the absent Senators could be here. I shall not to-morrow, concerned, to pay nearly $34,000,000 of the first-mortgage bonds. when the absent Senators return, object to taking up the resolu­ Is there any member of this Senate, I want to know, who is in tion of the Senator from Kansas, but I shall object, and do objeot, favor of this Government paying sixty-eight or sixty-nine million to an attempt to force it upon the consideration of the Senate dollars on these railroads, more than one-half of what we have when we are without a quorum. It is a question that ought to be now? I doubt it very much. heard by every Senator. It is a very important matter. There is another question in connection with this resolution Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President, as I said before, I regret very which is very objectionable in my mind. The resolution came much that there has been any improper or unnecessary delay in from the committee of which I have the honor to be chairman, the consideration of this resolution. It was offered in perfect good and the committee has amended it. As it stood originally it was faith. I called it up this morning in the same spirit in qrder that in favor of the Government. taking possession of this road and we might have a fair discussion of it, without intending to occupy operating it. I would rather see every dollar of money the Gov- any pa.rticular amount of time myself, and that we might have an ernment ha-s got in this enterprise lost than to see the Govern- expression of the Senate upon it promptly. It seemed to me that ment operate that road for one hour. Thepeopleof this country, it was a matter of very great importance, a matter of very grave in my judgment, do not believe in the governmental operation of concern, more particularly to the people of the West; and now I railroads. It is easily proved that in every country in the world shall refrain from discussing it, except so far as is necessary to where there is governmental operation of railroads, possibly with look at it from the point of debtor and creditor, and to state my one exception, in Holland, they are operated at a much higher cost view of the great loss which the Government is about to sustain to the people than where they are operated by private capital, as by transferring the sinking fund to this reorganization committee in this country. and permitting them to pay the balance which remains between I do not object to this resolution coming up. I am perfectly that amount and the $45,000,000 which they are supposed to pay. willing it shall come up whenever there is a quorum present to It seems to me, Mr. President, that it is very easy, by looking take it up, and to have it acted upon when there is a majority of over some of the evidence which has been submitted by these the Senate to pass upon it. I am ready to vote upon it. I have gentlemen themselves, to arrive at a fair and just conclusion with no interest whatever in it. It is true the committee of which I regard to what the value of that property is. Looking at it have the honor of being chairman reported the resolution, but I merely from the standpoint of debtor and creditor, which is only .exercise the right, which every individual member possesses, to one point of view which we may take of the question-the favor or oppose any resolution which the committee may report Supreme Court has said that there are two relations which the to the Senate. I do not want to be in the way for a moment of Government sustains to this corporation, one of sovereign and the passage of the Sherman statue resolution. one of creditor-the one Of debtor and creditor is the one which Mr. CULLOM. I hope the Senator from Kansas [Mr. HARRIS] the advocat.es of these different measures have constantly insisted will consent to the disposition of the little resolution in relation is the only one that should be considered, and for the moment it is to the statue of General Sherman. the only one to which I shall address myself. ' .

1897o CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2589

In the consideration of all the funding bills which have been More than that, I find in the notes of the hearings before the advocated and urged with such force and zeal and intelligence on Committee on P acific Raih·oads of the Senate of the United.States, the part of the representatives of these railroad companies, it has which were printed under the order of the Senate June 9, 1&96, a been admitted that the raih·oad companies could and would pay statement of the earnings and expenses. by months, for the years the entire amount of the debt if they were given more time. They 1890 to 1895, of the Union Pacific Railway Company, which I have conceded the value of the property and admitted that if the desire to have inserted in my remarks. I wilJ only tate now that time was extended at a lower rate of interest they would pay the the total of these surplus earnings, taxes being deducted, amounted entire amount of the debt. Therefore, when the Senator from Ne­ to 839,098,985.28. So that the net earnings for six years, covering bra-ska rMr. THURSTON] suggests that it is an unheard-of amount, the period of the greatest du~lness and depression that this coun­ that nobody ever dreamed the Government would realize so much try has ever seen, when railroad companies, as well as everybody from it as the $28,000,000 which it would get, it seems to me that else, were doing comparatively little or no business, averaged be must forget for the moment all of the records which these gen­ $6,516,497.54 during those years of unparalleled dep1·ession. tlemen them::;elves have made in the past. The statement referred to is as follows:

THE UNION PACIFIC RAILWAY CoMPANY. Earnings and expenses, by months, for the years 1890 to 1895, inclttsive. EARNINGS.

Month. 1895. 189-!. 1893. 1892. 1891. 1890.

January ______------.... ------·-----·------$970,520. 07 $1,039,115. 99 $1, 40!, 791.44 $1,421,180.01 $1,288, 36-IJ. 89 $1,193,633. S2 February . -----.------.------.------.... 9!0, 343. M 1, 006, 96-3. 4cg 1, 280, 776. i3 · 1, 299, on. 47 1, 200, 352. 87 1, 26!, 983. oa 1'11arch ----.----- __ .. ----.-----.------1, 075,573. 36 1, 078,896.39 1, 426, 937. 81 1, 463,973. 44 1, 499, 228. 61 1, 679, 21a. 88 1, 083, 313.78 1,104,231. 91 1,372,203. 89 1,~,4!7.13 , 1,515, 74c3. 55 1, 710,067.54: 1, 156,180.20 1,201,0i9.60 1,510, 993.18 1,506, 147.92 1,520,078. 82 1, 958,716.27 ~~==:=June . ------======..... == ------======::::======1, 188,052.02 1, 2!"12, 995.23 1, 530,287.16 1, 744,513.06 1, 613,290.54 1, 789,436.30 July _____ .. ______.. ___ . ______. _•. _. ______.... _... _... _.... _ 1, 192,507.91 1, 094,369.98 1, 338,113.49 1, 689,878.10 1, 612,702.21 1, 76!, 886. 84c 1,209,586.14 1,442,809. 64 1,324, 973.21 1,885, 449.28 1, 7'35, 523.28 1,915, 717.58 1lei·======: ===: =: ::::: ======:: :::====:=:: ======:::: 1, 368,532.65 1, 497,066.39 1, 607,010.98 2, 191,988. 'i2 2, 947, 2!9. 55 1, 005,782.90 Octobert~g~ ...... ------____ ------_____ ...... _------=~==== 1,646, 406. 15 1, 706,522.50 1, 755,470.08 2, 072,940.59 2, 148,357. (16 2,002.405. 9-1 November. ·-----··------·--·------.... ---· 1,362,813. 84 1,1®l, 110.45 1,544, 901.64 1, 940,965. H 1, 963,289.32 1, !Jl0,29!. 95 December ---- ______----- •. ____ • _.... ____ ---- ______·"··-- 1, 142,431.48 1, 110, tilli.17 1, 299,332.80 1, 670,833.82 1, 6!3, 5.36. 78 1, 313,008.29 -- 1 ------1 ------1 -----~ ------TotaL ..• ---- ____ ------·-----·------_----- 14,336,291.24 14,817, soo. 74 11,376,792. n 20,361,4c01. 66 19,687,738.48 20, {38,208.36

OPERATING EXPENSES (INCLUDING TAXES).

January ------____ ·--- _------______. ____ ------_----- ______$867, 9"24. 29 $738,487.09 $888, 869. 54 $904, 883. 65 $871, 452.11 $929,175.28 February----.-----.----- _____ •..... ______.. ------·-- ___ _ 675,113.49 733,497.31 820,330.49 849,628.48 851,3C6.38 913,006.55 March.----- ____ ----·-_------·------_----- ______696,62!. 90 854,764.53 974,578.47 880,1..92. 79 923,883.19 1, 063, 116. 14 695,367.70 795,H4.77 00i,059. 13 9!L.016.14 1,017.862.40 1,169,086. 74 ======:======:== 725,445.94 968,201.52 989,488.!i2 958,428.58 985,066.27 1, 185, 583. 09 ~~~=June _ ------==:=:= =: =:===..... ------====: ==:= :::=== ' 770,742.38 903, 9!6.13 932,052.22 9!0,200.87 1, 007,819.45 1,0!9,148.46 July_.---- ... --- .. -- ... -----_ ....•. ------.------•. ---- •.. --- .. ------781 , 0!3.14 710,086.66 854,825.21 &!4,150.57 1, 03i), ill3. 05 913,617.25 August.------.-----.------­ 739,007.44 871,944.99 814,776.21 1, 040, 688. !13 1, 015, 00!. 84 1, 0.29, 674.87 September.------·------783,07t. 98 886,243.16 8.'}2, 515. 41 1 0 -} 900 7-} 959,511.55 1, 0!4, 85!. 52 October _____ ------_------_------·------____ ----_----- 861,367.82 1, 104, 379. 51 1' 0!4, 062. 41 1: 126: 146: 9l 1, 129.310. {3 1, 3!1. 6111. 52 November--·------·-·-·------801,618.37 1, 120, 281. 32 1,0!4,508.64 1, 076, 893. 53 1, 0!9, 292. 52 1, 3lli, 145. 81 December ______-···------.... --··-- ____ ------· 1, 006,745.55 815,747.50 1, 046,453.95 1, 120,037. 27 995,464.59 1,211,3!9.07 1----·------TotaL ...... ---·----·---·------9,{34, 134.00 10,502,729.49 11, 166,52:>. 30 11, 8ll, 1S3. 44 ll, 841,286.78 13,163,449. 30

SURPLUS EARNINGS (TAXES DEDUCTED).

January_------... ------­ $102,595. 78 $300,6::!8. 90 $515, 921. 90 $522, 296. 36 $416, 913. 78 $2&!, 458. 54 February.------.... ------­ 265,230.15 273,466.18 440,445.94 449,442.99 349,046.49 351, 9'76. 50 March. __ ._. __ .---.------.. ------.------... ------.--- 378,9-18.4c6 224,131.86 452,359.3! 583,850.65 575,345.42 616,157.74 April .... ___ .. __ .----.------.... ----.---... ---.. ------.---- 387,976.08 309,087.14 468,144.76 527,{30. 99 497,881.15 54(), 980. 80 May ______..... --- .. ------.------...... ------·------430,734.26 2!'12,878.08 521,504,.56 547, n9.34 535,012.55 773,133.18 June _.. --- --.. ------·------·------417,309.64 299,049.10 598,234.9-1 80!,277.19 605,471.09 7W,287.84: July _____ ------_ ..... ____ ------.------~------.----- 411,464.77 384,283.32 483,288.28 805,727. 53 577,389.16 851,269.59 August _---- _------·-·-. ------·- ---­ 470,518.70 570,864.65 510, 1!l7. 00 844,760.33 720,518.44 886,042.71 September _-----· ------585,459.67 610,818.23 75!,495.57 1, 109, ro8. oo 987,738.00 860,928. 38 October ___ __ ------·----- ______•. ____ ------_------785,038.33 602,142.99 712,407.67 g46,793.68 1, 019,046.63 690,715.~ November .... ------·------561,195.47 212,829. 13 500,393.00 864,071.61 913,996.80 597,149.14: December ______------____ ------•------. ______·------.... 105,685.93 294,897.67 252,878.85 544,799.55 648,092.19 101,659.22 TotaL_ ... _..... _...• ---._-.--·-.. ---_ .. --· .. ------.-·---.------4,902,157.241 4, 315, 077. 25 6, 210, 2n. 81 8, 550, 268. 22 7, 8-!6, 451.70 7, 274,759.06

ALEX. MILLAR, Assistant Comptroller. BOSTON, March 24., 1896. :M:r. HARRIS. I also desire to insert in the RECORD, without I The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, that order reading it, a statement of the bonds issued in aid of the construe- will be made. tion of the Pacific railroads, the int€\rest paid thereon by the I The statement referred to is as follows: United States, and the condition of the sinking fund. Bonds issued in aid of the construction of the sevet·al Pacific rail mads and interest paid the1·eon by the United States, and condition of Pacific Railroad sinking fund created by act of May 7, 1878.

Interest repaid by com­ panies. Sinking fund. Interest ac- Interest paid 1---- Balance of Name of railway. Principal out­ crued an~ . by the By transpor- By cash pay- interest paid standing. t t d U t d St t ments· 5 by the no ye pru · me a es. tation serv- percent.net United States. Bonds. Cash. Total. ice. earniugs.

Central Pacific.---··------­ $25, 885, 120. 00 $594,333.60 $4-!,045,886.84 $7,9('.8,168.66 $658,283.26 ~5,419,434.92 $437,000.00 $6,907,968.57 $7,344,968.57 Kansas Pacific------6, 300, 000. 00 42,690.00 11,103,703.44 4,532,588.33 --·------6,5n,n5.n ____ . nion Pacific ______------___ _ 27,236,512.00 572,295.36 46,782,239.38 15,960,051.10 {38,409. 58 30,383,778.10 ·ia;645,25o:oo· --(092;959:86- -i7;738;200:oo Central Branch, Union _Pa- cific .. _...... ____ . ______Western Pacific ______1,600,·000.00 9,600.00 2,807,408.26 644,082.38 . 6,926.91 2,156,398.97 ------Sioux City and Pacific ______l: ~:~: lll jg;~g ~ ~:::;g'(i ~ ..~: ~::::l :;:;;:;;~:;~: \ ~:::::: ::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::: Tota1 ------64,623,512.00 1,317,285.36 110,786,877.15 29,375,597.95 14,082,250.00 11,000,928.43 25,083,178.43

L. J. GAGE, Secretary of the Treasu111. TREASURY DEPARTMENT, July 1,1897. l - I J

2590 ~CONGRES~IONAL REOORD--;:-SENA~'E~ JULY 14,

Mr. HARRIS. Let me turn back to some of the statements parts that are not aided, ·and are not first mortgages, would be about $1)0,- 000,000. which were made by the representatives of the company and see Senator STEWART. Does that cover terminals? if we can arrive at an idea of what they consider the value of the Mr. ANDERSON. It covers everything that would have to be taken out of property. Here is the statement of 1\fr. Winslow S. Pierce. I be­ the value in ordE'r to determine the fair value of the Government lien. Tak­ lieve Mr. Pierce is to-day the attorney for the reorganization com­ ing that $50,000,000 from the $85,000,000, or the $92,000,000- mittee. He is an intelligent gentleman and understands the Which are really the actual figures that he gives- whole matter from beginning to end. Mr. Pierce takes the posi­ of your new securities as representing the fair value of the road, would give you a basis of valuJ;l representing the lien of the Government as being worth tion, of course, that the Government can be foreclosed. Senator from $-30,000,000 toSW,OOO.OOO. WoLCOTT asked him this question, which will be found on page 22 of the hearings: · Mr. Anderson's arithmetic seems to be a little lame, because the amotmt which, according to his figures, would be required would Senator WoLCOTT. Do you think that the Government is in the position of be $42,000,000, after deducting the sinking fund. Therefore this any other creditor, and that if the Government fails to protect the liens in advance of its own the holders of the first-mortgage bonds may foreclose proposition, from Mr. Anderson's standpoint, is wholly untenable upon the Government interest? and unfair to the Government. l'r!r. PIERCE. Yes, sir. Senator WoLCOTT asked :Mr. Anderson this question, on page 4.0: Senator WoLCOTT. So, therefo1·e, this offer that you are making to the Taking that view, that SJ5.000,000 would be an offer which the Government Government on behalf of the reorganization committee is not because the should accept, you base it upon the earning capacity of the property, do you? presence of the Government is essential to your reorganization plan, but Mr. ANDERSON. I have based it on all the facts I have given. which lead lS so that the Government may be advised and warned that if it desires to protect its lien it must come forward and do something? me to the conclusion that the difference between the value of the property Mr. PIERCE. Not exactly so. and the claims which would have to be paid and adjUBted does not exceed ' In the statement addressed by the chairman of the reorganization commit­ ~,000,000. tee to the chairman of this committee the purpose of the reorganization com­ Senator WoLCOTT. You think that this sum of $35,000,000 it would be wiser mittee in that respect was stated. It was stated there, if I recollect aright., for tho Government to accept than it would be to follow the Government that while the reorganization committee's view was that the Government directors' scheme of putting up enough money to cover the prior indebted­ could be foreclosed, and that no outstanding right of redemption would be ness and to sell the property? left open, the committee would consider it better to agree with the Govern­ l'r!r. ANDERSON. I have not said that. ment on some just and equitabl~ solution of the matter-some fair adjustment That was the scheme which was recommended by the directors. of the Government's cla.rm agamst the property. On page 43 :Mr. Anderson, with regard to dividing up the prop- The Senator from Nebraska intimates that other bidders can erty;sain: EveD without the short line, the Central Pacific and Union Pacific alone comeforward, and that this is to bean open proposition where any­ would be a splendid property. I am not merely giving my own opinion on body and everybody can bid. I wish to call attention to the fact that point, because I am quite falniliar with railroad men, and I am giving that Mr. Pierce seems to have considered that a different solution their opinion. That is the opinion of M.r. Clarke, our operating adminis­ of the question had been arrived at: ti·ator. On page 46 Mr. Anderson was asked by Senator Brice: Senator WoLCOTT. Just as !understand. Notbecauseitwasessential, but becaUBe it was equitable. And that would ieave one hundred and twenty millions of debt? Mr. PIERCE. Equitable, and also essential from a. business standpoint. l'r1r. ANDERSON. Yes; assulning $135,000,000 to be accurate. Senator WOLCOTT. From a. point of vie-w of citizenship? Senator ;BRICE. Is this railroad of 1,825 miles capable of earning, one year :Ml·. PIERcE. No; I say from a business standpoint-that it is, above all with another, 4 per cent upon $120,000,000? odds, a better plan that there should be an adjustment of the debt, so that no l'r!r. ANDERSON. It is just able, but it would be close work. question of this character should be raised and pressed to an extremity. Mr. Anderson admits that it can earn 4 per cent upon $120,000,000 Senator WoLCOTT. It would not be essential to bring in the Government, if it were not necessary. of value. l'r!r. PIERCE. It would be far the better course to agree with the Govern­ Mr. Anderson, on page 47, says, in reply to a question of Senator ment about questiollS of this kind than to have a question of this kind liti­ Brice: gated. On the whole 1,400 miles known as the bond-aided portion of the Union Pa­ On page 35 is the statement of Mr. E. Ellery Anderson, who was cific, I think that would be a good proposition. for a great many years one of the Government directors, and who Senator Brice, on page 53, said: is now, I believe, one of the receivers. Senator WoLCOTT asked I find a statement of net earnings of the Union Pacific on page!) of this book (The Plan and Agreement to Reorganize the Union Pacific Railroad) him the question: showing that the net earnings in each of the nine years from 1885 to 189S You laid before the Secretary of the Interior the suggestions of the board were more than S6,000,000, after subtracting the taxes, except for the calen­ of Government directors as to the treatment to be accorded to the Union dar year 189!, when the net earnings were $!,315,000; and I understand you and Central Pacific railroads in connedion with their Govern~nt debt? to say that the net earnings for the calendar year 1895 have been about five l'r!r. ANDERSON. The Government directors filed their report. I have here millions? acopyofit. . Mr. ANDERSON. Yes, sir. · Senator WOLCOTT. In that report you made a recommendation as to the Senator BRIC-e. l'r!y inquiry is why the receivers, in the three years in method of treatment of those roads? which the road earned more than twice the amount requil·ed to pay the in­ M.r. ANDERSON. I believe we did. · terest on the first-mortgage bonds, should have allowed tha first-mortgage Senator WOLCOTT. '.rhat recommendation contemplated that the Govern­ bonds to become foreclosable, the receivers applying the earnin~s to some ment should find a way of paying the first-mortgage bonds and the interest other purpose, so as to afford au opportunity to the first-mortgage bondhold­ upon them, and should then foreclose and let the highest bidder take the ers to keep ou.t the Government? property, the Government fixing a minimum as an upset price? l'r!r. ANDERSON. I answered that question to the committee in 1895, and I Mr. ANDERSON. That was substantially what we recommended, except refer this committee to that answer for details. I would say, however, in explanation of the question, that while $-1.31~.1.~ represents the amount of tg:\f~~e~~~~~:r~~c~~~fl~~~~~h:i!~~eclosure of both the liens of our net earnings, a sum amounting to $1,200,uuu, which forms a "Part of that Senator WOLCOTT. Yes; that there should be a foreclosure of both liens at $4,315,000, is never actually received by the railroad. It enters mto the ac­ once. Do you still favor that method? count of earnings, and is charged as part of the recei-pts; but it is held by MI·. ANDERSON. I favor reaching an adjustment at a fixed price, if possi- · the Government of the United States as being the earnings of the Union ble. If the parties can not come to an a~reement, it is my opinion that the Pacific for the transportation of troops and munitions of war, and under the largest return the Government ca.u obtam is by a foreclosure of both proper­ provisions of the Thurman Act it is credited part to the bond and interest ties and an offer to the investors of the United States of a complete railroad account and. part to the sinking fund. So that that reduces what I should from the Missouri River to the Pacific Ocean. call the fund available for interest to something like $3,000,(X)(). That is one point on which I seriously object to the recommen­ Further down Senator Brice said: dation of the reorganization committee, because it authorizes the It is fair to the receivers. and is absolutely necessary to the committee, that the apparently large surplus over the amount reauh·ed to pay the in­ separate sale of different portions of the road. It may be divided terest on the first-mortgage bonds should be explained in connection with into several pa.rts, and it prescribes specifically that even on the the failure to keep up the interest payments. Union Pacific line bids may be made with relation to separate w~d J.'r~~M.A.N. In other words, to remove the inference which the pub& portions of the road. Thereby the system as a continuous line · Senator BRICE. And after hearing the statements made by Mr. Andersoi:'i from the Missouri River to the Pacific will be entirely destroyed, and Mr. Pierce that the Government could be foreclosed of all its interest in and as a matter of course the value of the Government's interest ~~E;·_o~erty by reason of that failure to pay interest on the first-mortgage would be seriously affected by that proposition. Mr. ANDERSON. It is rather by reason of the maturity of some of the first- On page 37 Senator WoLQOTT asked the question: mortgage bonds. Are you favorable to that scheme of reorganization?­ Senator BRICE. By reason of anything which entitles the holders of the first-mortgage bonds to a decree. Referring to Mr. Pierce's- With the net earnings of the road in the period of six years Mr. ANDERSON. I am favorable to au adjustment. As a receiver, I do not conceive it to be apart of my functions to advocate earnestly particular amounting to over $6,500,000, and the statement of Mr. Anderson, $chemes until I shall haYe fully matured my own views and ascertained the one of the Government directors and one of the receivers, that it views of the Government. has an earning capacity of at least 4 per cent on $120,000,000, it seems to me that this proposition which does not put into the The* Government* holds on* the Union"' Pacific a* lien representing* a certain* (I.Illount of principal advanced and a certain amount of interest paid and not Treasury $45,000,000, but which takes out of the Treasury $17 ,_000,- teimbursed. The amount of these two sums approximates $53,000,000, after 000 which is there and returns to the Government $28,015,850.13, deducting about $15,000,000 now in the sinking fund under the Thurman Act. is untenable. Again, on page 39 he says-: The amount of the sinking fund at present is $17,738,209.86. The amount which they would have to add to that would be Without going into them in detail, I would say, from such examination as I have given to it, that the total amount so trequired for first mortgage on 28,015,850. The capitalization which they propose to put upon parts of those additiollS and for other mortgages which are claims upon the railroad also gives to us some idea of the value of the property.

• 1897. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 2591

They propose to issue $100,000,000 of bonds, $61,000,000 of common named are Edward Dickinson, Joseph H.Mil1al·d, J. A. Monroe, T. M. Orr. of Omaha;_ Alexander Miller, James G. Harris, of Boston; Otto H. Kahn, Hem·y stock, and $75,000,000 of preferred stock. The property, which C. Demmg, Alvin W. Keech, Felix M. Warburg, Earnest R. Adee, George H. will cost them $61,505,850, therefore will be capitalized at S236,- Squire, Lawrence Greer, of New York; George Q.Cannon,Le Grand Young, 000,000, neaTly fonx times the amount of the cost of the road to of Salt Lake. Under the Utah law the company can acquire by purchase th.ese people. any other railroad stock and can extend any of its own lines. . There is a good deal more to be considered than the actual loss They will therefore be an entirely new organization, and if to the Government. There is no doubt that a very serious loss is their plans are carried out they will of course not be subject to expected by a great many of the minor stockholders and bond­ any of the law which is supposed to govern these companies by holders. I have here an a1·ticle from the Building and Loan News, the organic acts under which they were incorporated. of New York, a monthly publication, entitled "Stop robbing Now, what are the methods which those acts point out? As a stockholders." It is not intended particularly to show the loss matter of course I need ha1·dly say anything in regard to that the Government will sustain, but I desire to have it incorporated after the able presentation of the legal questions involved by the in my remarks to show the other directions and the ways in which · learned Senator from .Alabania [Mr. MoRGAN], but I wish to call the smaller stockholders are going to be frozen out in this great attention to various places· in the law to show that there are but transaction of the banking syndicate which is attempting to finance two methods by which the Government c.an act. The remedies the Pacific railroad matter. provided are either foreclosure or forfeiture in the event of default The article referred to is as follows: in the payment of bonds, and they are made absolutely specific STOP ROB'BING STOCKHOLDERS. and mandatory. The great vote for' Bryan and the widespread hate for large corporations There is no other option that I can see open to· the executive are largely due to the vast robberies wrought by men who "reorganize" officers of the Government except to foreclose and bid the entire companies, and who in doing so plunder the poor men who hold small amounts amount of the Government debt. There is no authority anywhere of such corporations' stock. This country is full of men and women who are poor, almost destitute, not from fault of their own, but because those who given to them to scale it down, to accept a emaller bid. They are mismanage and "reorganize" corporations have stolen th{lir little means by absolutely required to bid the total amount of the interest in the perverting the forms of law. These multitudes-mostly hard-working, de­ property which, as the United States is a creditor abundantly serving people-findingtheire:ffortstosave and improve their state defea.ted by the ruin of the securities wherein they have invested, have become dis­ able to take care of any prior liens and thus save itself any loss in couraged and discontented and 1·eady to favor anything-even the follies of the matter, would be their natural duty as business men. the Chicago platform-that looks likely to help them. Forfeiture is also invoked in many cases. It also says, in sec­ It is time to call a halt on these villainies. We have not commonly known of them until too late. Butwehavelea.rned tion 17 of the act of 1862: of one that is pending now and can be stopped in time. That if said roads arc not completed, so as to form a continuous line of We strongly approve tbe proposal to separate the Union Pacific railroads railroad, ready for use, from the Missouri River to the navigable waters of from the United States Government by paying off the debt due the latter. the Sacramento River, in California, by the 1st day of July, 1876, tbe whole That road's history from the start has been one of trickery a!ld fraud. Its of all of said railroads before mentioned, and to be constructed under the building was shown by the "Credit Mobilier" investigations of Cong-ress to provisions of this act, together with all their furniture, fixtures, rolling be permeated with infamous bribery and colossal theft. Its lat.er manage­ stock, machine shops,. lands, tenements, and hereditaments, and property of ment bought up scores of small roads and loaded them on the great one, ~~:ZC:r!f~a ~~t~.aracter, shall be forfeited to and be taken possession of by making the latter pay dividends on the roads they owned and letting the unhappy small stockholders go without: By a long succession of such tricks Union Pacific, despite the enormous aid given it by the Government, has Now, it states the object of the act in section 18: been so burdened that its stock of late years has been worth in the markets And be it ft,rihe1· enacted, That whenever it appeal'S that the net earnings 10 cents on the dollar or less. of the entire road and telegraph, including the amount allowed for services Now come in the "reorganizeTs." The road, being so loaded that it can not rendered for the United States, after deducting all expenditures, including pay its debt to the Government, nor dhidends on its stock, the "reorgan­ repairs, and the furnishing, running, and managing of said road, shall exceed IZers" propose that the Government shall foreclose its mortgages and sell the 10 per cent upon its cost, exclusive of, the 5 per cent to be :paid to the United road to them. They propose to form a new company; and to give the stock­ States, Congress may reduce the ra..:;es of fare thereon, if unreasonable in holders of the present company stock in the new one, each stockholder to get amouut, and may fix and establish the same by law. And the better to ac­ the same amount be now has. complish the object of this- act, namely, to promote the public interest and Tbis looks quite fair. But behind it is hidden the roboory which has been welfare by the construction of a&id railroad and telegraph line, and keeping committed in nearly every ''reorganization." Every person who has one the san1e in working order, and to secure to tbe Government a.t all times (but share of stock in the old company must pay in $15 to the new one. If he has particulaTly in time of war) the use and benefits of th~samefor postal, mili­ a hundred shares he must pay in.;;I,500. This is neatly masked by proposina tary, and other purposes, Congress may at any time, having due regard for to giYe him fifteen shares of new "p1•eferred" stock, besides his hundr;;d i~fs 1~rts of sa1d companies named herein, add to, alter, amend, or repeal shares of "common." But it is highly h1rely, tbat when he has thus bought fifteen shares of "preferred" stockhwith a hundred shares of "common" thrown. in, he will get dividends on t a fifteen shares he has bought new, and A prime object of the Government in constructing this great none on the rest. 'l'hus he will be no better off than now. If he can not pay national highway was the public welfare, and in order to do that. the $1.500, he is to get nO' stock in the new company. If he has ten shares, he must pay $150. If he can not pay this-or can notpayS15if he has one share­ it also protected the public against extravagant and extortionate he is to lose his property. The stockholders are to be taxed $9,000,000. The rates of fares or charges upon the roads, and retained to itself the road is to be sold under foreclosure; and, the old company having nothing power to amend, alter, or change those rates as well as the original left, the stock will be worthless. Many men hold these small an1ounts and can not pgy more. To give them law. If a new company of this kind steps in, organized under the their choice between doing what they can not do and losing their small means laws of Utah, buying the property at this rate and capitalizing it is sheer, simple robbery. Veil it as you may, this it is. at four times the amount invested, utteTly outside and independent lt is idle to say that many of the present holders bought their stock on speculation, expecting the price to rise. Suppose they did? '!'hey had aright of all the statutory requirements, what becomes of the rights of to do so. This gives no man a right to rob them. the public in this matter? They are simply sacrificed, without This vast property, which cost $60,000,000, has been mismana~ed till it is any care being taken for their rights,. without any regard to the worth less tban a tenth of that sum. It is-now proposed to "Wipe oat" the stock that represents it-to deprive poor men of the millions of dollaTs that original object of Congress in passing this act. I wish to say, as remain. the Senator from Iowa has mentioned the question of the Govern­ This deserves no better name than we give it-robbery. ment owning this property, that when the Government passed the And this villainy men of high standing in state and church are going to commit! law they had no fears o:q that matter apparently. They imposed We call on them to halt. Let them not smirch their names and records by that as the ultimate penalty to be enforced, provided the compa­ theiT own deeds. nies did not perlorm their part of the contract either in paying Let them be men. Let them buy in the market the stock of those who can not pay assessments. Or let tbem increase the amount of bonds-$75,000,000- the bonds and interest at maturity or in completing the road as whicb they propose to issue, enough to give those bonds to these poor stock­ required. holders in exchange for their stock at, say, 10 cents on the dollar. Then they We have been terrorized in a good many directions in order to will fairly and justly own the road, and can do with it as they please. keep the Government from that, and openly to advertise to these If tbey will not do this, we call on Congress, and on the press, to see that their constituents are not plundered. Men wbo propose to steal millions of men that the Government would not enforce the penalty which the dollars from the poor should never be allowed to get control of the road. law prescribes. With an ordinary debtor it would not be ex­ We invite all holders of small amounts of Union Pacific stock to write us, pected rmde:r those circumstances, therefore, that a fair proposition stating how much stock they own, and what they paid for it. The plot is to make no call on the stockholders for assessments-as long as for the settlement of the debt would be obtained. With these ex­ Congress is in session. As soon as Congress has adjourn.ed, the power of traordinary debtors, who have taken advantage of every opportu­ wealth and influence will be exerted-with tbe aid of a few rich stockholders nity to defraud the Government of its proper and just dues in this who have be~n somehow bribed-to carry through this plunder of the poor. We call on Congress not to adjourn Without passing a law that will make matter, who have squandered the great fund which was given · this robbery impossible. to them without constructing the road in the manner required by Mr. HARRIS. Mr. President, it seems to me this sinking fnrid Congress, who have debauched public men, who have been a dis­ is either the property of the Government or the property of the grace to the whole country, aa everyone will admit, for the last company. The new organization called the reorganization com­ thirty years, it seems to me it is a surrender not only of the busi­ mittee have no claims whatever, so far as I have been able to dis­ ness interests of the Government, but of all the rights, and the cover~ upon the sinking fund. They are new parties. They are dignity, and the honor of this great Government. not recognized in any of the franchises or in any of the acts under From the very inception of thl,s great work there was no honest authority of which this company has been operated. They pro­ intent to carry out the law. In the construction of the Union pose to take possession pTactically, according to this dispatch from Pacific and the Kansas Pacific there was not spent $20,000 a mile. New York, wheTe the messag~was sent from Salt Lake, Utah: Any man familiar with t.he character of the great valley of the The Union E'acific Railroad Company has filed articles of incorporation Platte and the Kansas River, up which those roads run, knows with the secretary of state. Capital stock is $136,000,000. The directors that the road can be constructed at a mmimnm of cost. I have

• J \ .I

2592 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. JULY 14,

mvself seen miles and miles of track where the ties were laid form as we would like to do, because after all it is not a pleasant '.lown on the line given by the engineers, the rails were spiked, and thing to discuss one measure upon the terms and provisions of t rains were run along, while a small ditch was being dug on each another. In the course of the remarks which I submitted this gide and thrown over into the center. It was that character of morning, I referred to the pendency of a resolution in a former work There is rarely a case that a cut over 6 or 8 feet was en­ session of Congress on the same subject, introduced by the senior countered. Senator from Nebraska [Mr. ALLEN]. I have the resolution be­ I myself constructed as engineer the most difficult division in fore me. The junior Senator fTom Nebraska left the impression tbe first 135 miles of the Kansas Pacific, that from Lawrence to upon my mind, as I suppose he did upon the Senate, that he oc­ Leavenworth and its absolute cost, involving more work than cupied a great number of morning hours, four, or five, or six, in any other portion of that part of the line, the first 135 miles, was opposition to the resolution of his colleague. SlU ,COO a mile. What did they get for that expenditure? They I will read that resolution to show what it -was that the Sena­ got the consent of the Senate of the United States to make a tor from Nebraska was opposing, and to show why it is that the treaty wit11 the Delaware Indians by which they purchased Senator from Nebraska is continuing to oppose the same kind and 2 23,000 acres of land at $1.27 in currency, w:Pich they sold at a class of measures upon the part of the Senate of the United profi t of over 87 an acre. They also got from Leavenworth States. Here is the resolution which the junior Senator from Ne­ County 8250 000 of stock paid up, and it is the only paid-up stock braska opposed: that the books of the Union Pacific Company ever showed. The Resol11ed, That the Committee on Pacific Railroads be, and they are hereby, books of the ..(ransas Pacific bad no other paid-up stock. After instructed to inquire and report to the Senate whether the executive depart­ ment has, by existing law, authority to foreclose the Government mortgage the construction of that little piece of road, which cost about or lien on the Union Pacific and Kansas Paeific railroads, or either of them, $~00.000, they then tm·ned around and put a mortgage upon it and sell the property and assets thereof without additional legisl~jon, and for $60 :> .000, putting in their pockets the profit of a million and a inquire and report what authority,i! any, the President of the Uniccd States or the Attorney-General may possess to contract with any person or persons h alf dollars at least in the construction of it. in advance of a foreclosure and sale of such property or any part thereof re­ So it was with the remainder of the Kansas Pacific. About specting the amount that shall be bid by contemplated purchasers, and eighteen to twenty thousand dollars a mile covered every cent of whet her it is not the duty of the President, under existing law, before caus­ t lJ. e expense. The road was not constructed as a first-class road. ing a foreclosure of such mort~age or lien, to direct the Secretary of the Treasury to "redeem or otherwlSe clear off all the paramount liens. mort­ The road was in the main inferior and in wretched condition. gages, or incumbrances upon such property by paying the sums lawfully due Some of the Government examiners who were sent out, as shown in respect thereof out of the Treasury;" and that in the meantime, and pend­ by the testimony in Mr. Pattison's report, were- absolutely paid. ing the r eport of the Committee on Pacific Railroads, the Attorney-General be, and he is hereby, directed to refrain from entering into any further or One of them wa.s paid $25,000 to sign the report by which they additional stipulatiOns or agreements respecting the sale of &aid property, or obt a,i ned the bonds. The presidents of the roads made affidavit any portion thereof, or any fund arising therefrom or in any manner belong­ that the stock had been subscribed and paid for as required bylaw ing thereto or connected therewith. each time when the issue of bonds was urged. They obtained an That is the resolution which the Senator from Nebraska occu­ immense land grant, alternate sections for 20 miles on each side pied the time of the Senate so great a while in opposing. of the road, and the odd sections were sold to settlers for $2.50 an Mr. THURSTON. I suggest to the Senator that my colleague acre, instead of the regular price, 51.25. So the men who bought on the next day following introduced another resolution, which I those lands on the Indian reservations and who bought the lands hand to the Senator, and both of which I discussed at that time. a1ong the lines of these roads for double price were really the Mr. MORGAN. I will read it: • men who contributed that portion of the fund to construct the Resolved by the Senate (the House of Rep1·esentatives concurring) , That a road. maste1•'s, ~sh~l, or any other jn~cial ?r execution ~le of ~he pr operties of the Umon Pacific and Kansas Pacific railroad compam.es or either of them, I think when we depart from. this proviso of the law which without anditionalle.gislation by Congress, would not be bmding1 on the Gov­ gives the right to the Government to regulate the rate of freight ernment of the United States, or conclude it of any legal or equitable right and fares we are doing a great wrong and a great injustice to the therein n~w poss~s'sed, unless such sale should be subsequently ratified by pe;)ple of that country. When we consent to anything which de­ CongressiOnal action. prives this great system of its continuity from the Missouri River So a resolution intended to prevent the sacrifice of this road, to the Pacific Ocean, we are doing a great wrong to the entire under the conditions which have been stated in the remarks of country. As the Senator from Alabama said, it was created as a the honorable Senator from Kansas, it was the purpose of the great instrumentality of Government. It rises to a higher plan~ Senator from Nebraska to oppose. He was doing all he could to than that of a mere contract for the construction of a certain prevent any interference at all on the part of the Congress of the number of miles of road. United States with the actio:n then taken by the President of the But I do not desire, as the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. THURS­ United States and the Attorney-General, which action is the sub­ ' TON] bas said, to enter into a general discussion of·this matter. ject-matter of the resolution which we offered this morning and I am anxious that the Government shall step in and prevent what attempted to get an opportunity to discuss. ~ I regard as an unlawful thing from being done, to the great injury The Senator's opposition has been doubly emphasized by the of the credit of the Government. There is no law under heaven character of the resolutions which his colleague had introduced that can be found for this reorganization committee making a into the Senate and was pressing for consideration. The Senator secret contract with the late Executive, the late unlamented Execu­ evidently intended to expend as much of the time of the Senate as tive, let me say, of this country. The policy of these roads, so far could be conveniently done in opposing those resolutions, one of as the Administrations have been concerned, it seems to me has which was a resolution of inquiry and the other was a resolution been like a serial novel. Each installment has been labeled "to expressive of the sense of the Senate against the action taken by be continued in our next." The policy inaugurated by :Mr. Cleve­ the President of the United States. I supposed at the time that land and his Attorney-General, which is expressed in these letters, of course it had been stated and was of record in some of the pro­ I do not desire to see carried out by the present Administration. ceedings that the Senator was counsel for the receivers of this I believe that this country looks with a great deal of hope and railroad, every one of whom is engaged in this new project of interest to the admi nis~ation of affairs by the present .Adminis­ reconstruction and is a party to this contract, made virtually with tration. We all desire the very best results, so far as Mr. McKin­ themselves upon their recommendation. I supposed that the Sen­ ley's Administration is concerned. There is no patriotic citizen ator felt a natural interest in trying to break down any effort of in this country who does not desire to see it succeed, and to see it Congress to interrupt that proceeding, and such wa.s the tenor of _ lift everything up on a higher and better plane than that which his remarks, and now the Senator avows that he was opposed to was occupied by the Government for the four years preceding the both those resolutions. 4th of March last. I do not wish to see this dark-lantern con­ The Committee on Pacific. RaHroads took up the subject them­ spiracy, a twin brother to the famous bond contract, carried out selves at the present session upon a resolution offered by the Sen­ to the eternal shame and disgrace of any AdministJ.·ation which ator from Kansas and referred to them, and they reported back permits it to be done. that resolution, and it is here now. That resolution, after recit­ Mr. MORGAN. Mr. President, the effort made this morning ing the statute upon which this action is founded, provides two to get up the joint resolution reported from the Committee on things. First, it is an expression of the sense of the Senate- Pacific Railroads failed for the want of a quorum. An evident That the President should, in strict accordance with the above-quoted filibuster was instituted for the purpose of defeating action upon statute, direct the Secretary of t he Treasury to carry out the provisiOns of the joint resolution. The junior Senator from Nebraska (Mr. said act by r edeeming or otherwise clearing off t he paramount liens, mort­ gages, and incumbrances on said railroad by paying t he sums lawfully due in THURSTON] was in the Chamber, and on several occasions, I think, r espect thereof out of the Treasury to the holders of prior liens, and direct when his name was called, he did not vote, and he did not answer the Secretary of the Treasury ther eupon to take control and management of the roll call, and participated, therefore, in the purpose of breaking said railroad and all the property, real and personal, in any manner belong­ ing thereto; or if that shall not be deemed the wiser cow·se to pursue, that the quorum, so that we could not possibly proceed with the con­ the President should direct the Attorney-General to take such steps and pro­ sideration of the joint resolution. ceedings in the courts and otherwise as shall be needful to r edeem such Then came the joint resolution which is now before the Senate, property from any J?rior mortgage lien, or incumbr ance, neces2ary and proper to defend the mterests of the United States in respect to the matters and it untied the tongue of the junior Senator from Nebraska, so m said act of Congress mentioned, and to take steps to foreclose any moJt­ that we can at last approach the subject, perhaps not in as full ga$e or lien of the United States on any of said railroad property•

. . 1897. CONGRESSIONAL RECO;RD-SEN.ATE. - ~593

Then the committee added the following to the resolution offered ation of the resolution on the Clerk's desk, and that any addition by the Senator from KanRas: made thereto by the Senator from Alabama is out of order. And that the President is requested to suspend proceedings to carry into Mr. MORGAN. I understand that nothing is out of order that effect the agreement alleged to have been made to sell the interest of the is done here by unanimous co.nsent. United States in the Union Pacific Railroad and in the sinking fund until the Mr. GEAR. Except the gentleman from Alabama. further action of Congress is had in reference thereto. Mr. MORGAN. That kind of an attempt to escape is-I will The junior Senator from Nebraska opposes that resolution. He not characterize it. But here we are now, and in order to get a opposed the two resolutions which led up to this same conclusion, chance to say a word for the people and the Government of the to this same legislation, and now he opposes this one. The Sena­ United States against this enormous fraud, we have to resort to tor occupied at the time the attention in the morning hour on somewhat unusual proceedings in the Senate to give even our various occasions (I have all the references here), beginning on tongues the liberty of stating the facts in respect to this outrage February 3, 1897, and concluding on page 1969 of the RECORD on upon the country. - the 16th day of February, 1897. I know that the Republican party in the Senate does not espouse Mr. THURSTON. Will the Senator please state on how many this thing, for Republicans have voted to-day to proceed to the mornings I discussed that question? consideration of this matter, and therefore I shall not consent in Mr. MORGAN. I can not state on how many mornings the any way to give a political complexion to it. What is being done Senator discussed it without taking the t1·ouble to look over the here is an objection interposed for the benefit of and at the instance REqORD, but my recollection is five. of the Union Pacific Railroad and those who propose to purchase Mr. THURSTON. I think the Senator will find it was three, it, including Collis P. Huntington. He is one of the purchasers and that I occupied about three hours and forty-five minutes in who is to be and William R. Hearst is another one. The four re­ the whole discussion. ceivers are also members of this reorganization, men who have got Mr. MORGAN. That may be true. their whole interest in this matter, who have undertaken, as the Mr. ALLEN~ I think it was three days. honorable Senator from Kansas said, to finance this business. Mr. MORGAN. Three days, says the honorable colleague of They have capitalized it at $100,000,000 in 4 per cent bonds, the Senator. Now, during all that time he was speaking in op­ $25,000,000 of which they propose to reserve for themselves and position to the resolution. The author of the resolution made no $75,000,000 in preferred stock. The Senator from Kansas has just reply. He did not take the floor at all. I understand that in fact made the statement here. But they price the property at $200,- he had no opportunity to do so because by the indulgence of the 000,000 in that transaction that they propose to get for an expendi­ Senate the junior Senator from Nebraska was allowed to go on ture of $28,000,000. from morning hour to morning hour and discuss the matter ad Mr. GEAR. May I interrupt the Senator for a moment? libitum. Mr.liiORGAN. Yes. I came to the conclusion that that resolution would necessarily Mr. GEAR. I beg to state that Mr. Clark, who is the engineer fail; that we should not get an expression upon it; that the Sena­ in charge and who is the raih·oad manager of the Union Pacific, tor from Nebraska had determined to wear out t-he time of the stated under oath before the committee that the whole property Senate in its discussion. Thereupon, when unanimous consent of the Union Pacific, not the branches, but the whole property of was asked for an opportunity to him, as he said, to finish his re­ the Union Pacific from Council Bluffs to Ogden could be built marks, I objected. The Senator has not put any of his remarks for 550,000,000. I give that in reply to the gentleman's question. into the RECORD. • I remember the general course of the discus­ Mr. MORGAN. Oh, yes; it can be built now for $50,000,000; sion, and all of it was for the purpose of sustaining the jurisdic­ but who is going to give them authority to do it? They have the tion of the court and the action of the President of the United right of way, they have the roadbed, the track-- States in the sale of the sinking fund and in all that was done in Mr. GEAR. He included in that, ab initio, the construction of respect to this matter, his colleague being on the other side of that the road, the right of way, and everything. question, laboring very manfully and very earnestly in the effort Mr. MORGAN. Yes; ab initio under the present conditions, to get some action taken upon the subject. not those of thirty years ago. Now, the Senator is here opposing this matter still. We have 1\11·. ALLEN. If the Senator from Alabama will allow me. I sought to give him, and anyone else who supposes that he has the will state that according to the reconstruction committee the net ability to explain away this dark and peculiar transaction, all the earnings now of the Union Pacific are $4,500,000 annually; that opportunity that may be necessary in order to do it. But when that is the average net earnings of the last ten years. I have been' we undertak~ to call it up in order that this opportunity may be over their line-- afforded to the junior Senator from Nebraska, the chairman of the Mr. MORGAN. Yes; that was stated by the Senator from Committee on Pacific Railroads institutes a filibuster to stop us Kansas, you remember. from proceeding to its consideration at all. Mr. ALLEN. That would make more than 4per cent on $100,- Mr. GEAR. I beg the Senator's pardon. Will the Senator 000,000. from Alabama please indicate where and how I filibustered? Mr. MORGAN. It would be more than 4: per cent. Thev are Mr. MORGAN. By objecting to the consideration of the joint earning now 4: per cent on S120,000,000, according to the table resolution. which the Senator from Kansas put in his speech, which I have Mr. GEAR. Is that filibustering? It seems to me I have heard no doubt is literally correct. the Senator from Alabama object many times to the consideration In regard to the statement made by Mr. Clark, an engineer, that of measures. If that can be called filibustering, the Senator from the road could now be constructed for $50,000,000, if that be so, Alabama has filibustered. why does this reconstruction company capitalize it at $200,000,000? Mr. MORGAN. If it is not a filibuster, I do not know that I Are they a set of men who do not understand their interest or have ever seen one in the Semite. What has delayed a vote? their power or the power of the money that they control? When Mr. GEAR. The Senator from Alabama knows it is not fili­ they put it at $200,000,000, jt means that they have got the power bustering. under this arrangement with the President of the United States to Mr. MORGAN. I propose to ask unanimous consent that the make it worth $'~00,000,000. Enough dividends ;have been paid in resolution now before the Senate relating to a monument to Gen­ the Union Pacific Railroad since it first went into operation and eral Sherman shall be disposed of without fm·ther debate, and down to the time it went into the hands of the receivers to have then that the resolution of the Senator from Kansas reported from paid twice over the debt that is due to the United States Govern­ the Committee on Pacific Raih·oads shall be taken up for consid­ ment and to the first-mortgage bondholders. They have got eration. enough dividends out of it. Mr. GEAR. I beg to state that unanimous consent was given The Senator from Kansas pointed out that, with the exception to take up the resolution regarding the Sherman statue, and the of a contribution to one of the spurs or branches of the road in gentleman is out of order in offering an addition to that resolution. money, nobody had ever put any money into the stock of the I shall object to the latter request. company. The other day I called for information on that sub­ Mr. MORGAN. Well, I am prepared for an~ sort of an objec­ ject, and I call again. I want somebody to get up in the Senate tion that will delay the consideration of the jomt resolution. I and tell me where any man who is connected with this railroad am not astonished at all. It is a mere continuance of the fili­ company has ever put a dollar in the stock of this company. I buster. There is not any concealing that. Sir, I am not a child took the,ground then, and I reassert it, that this railroad prop­ or a novice here that I do not understand the meaning of what is erty has been constructed entirely out of the subsidy bonds of the going on. I propose again to the chairman of the Committee on United States Government, the lands granted by the United Pacific Railroads, and the junior Senator from Nebraska, and to States to this corporation and the branches, and the proceeds of the Senate that we shall dispose of the Sherman resolution with­ the first mortgage, and that that was more, largely more, than out further debate, and that then we shall proceed with the con­ was necessary to cover the entire expenses of construction. The sideration of the resolution reported from the Committee on Pa­ stock of the company, amounting, as I remember now, to S100,- cific Railroads. 000,000, was sold by these men, and they had not anything else to Mr. GEAR. I renew my objection, Mr. President, for the rea­ do with the money except to pile it all in their private fortunes. son that the Senate has already given its consent to the consider- Now, when all of this has been done, when this property is

XXX-163 2594 CONGRESSIO~AL RECORD- SENATE. J ULY 1~ estimated by them at $200,000,000, the President of the United ever power belongs t o one President under the law belongs to his States authorized them to take the sinking fund out of the hands successor. of the Secretary of the Treasury and apply it to the purchase of Mr. WHITE. If it will not interrupt the Senator from Ala­ this property. I say, Mr. President, that it is an enormous usurpa­ bama, I should like to ask him, as he is very familiar with this tion of power which scandalizes the whole Government of the matter, whether he has been able to discover or has ever seen any United States and every man who sustains him in doing so. actual purported contract between any of the officers of the Gov· The other day I had an opportunity to read in the Senate, and ernment of the United States and the reorganization committee? it is here in the RECORD, the Thurman Act of 1878 and the acts of Has he ever seen anything more than a mere exchange of letters 1862 and 1864, under all of which, but more specifically under the stating that there would be a certain amount bid? Thurman Act, a sinking fund was established, to show that that Mr. MORGAN. The Committee on Pacific Railroads are Sen­ ftmd was held in trust by the Government of the United States for ators of this body, including myself. The senior Senator from the purpose of paying off the first-mortgage bonds and interest, the Nebraska fMr. ALLEN] has been very vigilant in sending inquiries subsidy bonds and interest, and any other creditors of the Union and formal resolutions from the Senate Chamber to the President Pacific Railroad Company. The same provision was made also in of the United States. We commenced first with Mr. Cleveland's respect of the Central Pacific Railroad Company. There then is Administration, and toward the close of the last session of Con­ a. trust fund in the Treasury of the United States appropriated gress we got the letters which have been read to the Senate. and applied by law to certain specific purpo es, and the President Since that time we have sent other resolutions, thinking that per­ of the United States assumes the authority to turn that over to haps something had been overlooked in sending in any agreement Louis Fitzgerald in order to enable him to make a bid of 845,000,- that might be found anywhere, and the present Attorney-General, 000 for the property and pay that sinking fund in upon it. If through the President, replies to the resolution that, except four that is not the fact, if that is not the situation, let somebody deny or five little scraps of paper that are found in the files theret noth­ it or let somebody explain it. ing else appears except what had been previously communicated. Mr. ALLEN. It is really $28,000,000. So the evidence is absolutely positive and uncontradicted, and Mr. MORGAN. So instead of their bidding forty-five million beyond possibility of contradiction~ that no such contract was ever seven hundred and odd thousand dollars then· bid is only twenty­ formulated and signed, or if it was, it has never gone on the files eight million seven hundred and odd thousand dollars for this of the Government. great property estimated and valued by these people at$200,000,000. We are left here now in that state of uncertainty, trying, ex­ Perhaps, :Mr. President, the country will allow us to deal that cruciating uncertainty, as to what has actually been done, and way with public affairs, and perhaps somebody may even rebuke we want to know what has been done; and this committee, by me for undertaking to interfere and make a question as to the unanimous vote, has proposed to ask the President of the United authority of the President of the United States to do this. But, States, in the following words, to suspend action: sir, I shall not shrink from my duty on that a~count. I have not And that tbe 'President is requested to suspend proceedings to carry int~ done so heretofore. I have no interest in this business and never effect the agreement alleged to have been ma-de to s 11 the interest of the had. I was placed upon the Committee on Pacific Railroads when United States in tbe Union Pacific Railroad, and in the sinking fund, until it was first organized. I have been on it every day from that time the further action of Congress is had in reference thereto. to this. That is the only request that is made of the President here. The I have witnessed all the examinations that have taken place in balance of the resolution is a declaration of o-ginion. 1·espect to these properties. The people of Alabama have not, I Mr. BACON. If the Senator will allow .rtfe, as he was inter­ suppose, one dollar of interest in the question one way or the other. rupted by the Senator from California before he answered my I do not suppose there is a man in that State who owns a dollar question, I wish to state to him that I myself did not ask him the of stock or a dollar of bonds. So we are entirely neutral in respect question because I differ with him on that subject, but I desire to of this matter. Senators who live along the line of the road and have in the Senate the statement of the learned Senator as to his who have been connected with it officially as attorneys of course opinion relative to the authority of the President to suspend these must understand this matter better than I do; and it behooves proceedings. them now to come forward and make statements in reply to this Mr. MORGAN. The present President? resolution, in reply to these declarations, and to show how it is Mr. BAUON. I am speaking of the present President of the that the President of the United States has this power, and to United States. This request is directed to him, and I desire to show who Louis Fitzgerald & Co. aret and whom they represent, have the statement of the Senator from Alabama upon the legal and to show the ultimate destiny of this railway. proposition as to the power of President McKinley to comply with This railway t I repeat, has been constructed and maintained with the Tequest contained in these resolutions, or his power to do so all of the enormous yield of dividend and other yields that it has without such a request. . made into the hands of the.seoverrich stockholders and contractors. Mr. MORGAN. I was about to answer that, and had partially All of that has come by taxation out of the pockets of the people, answered it, by saying that the Executive office is a continuous in a large part by direct taxation to bring money into the Treas­ one, and whoever performs the office of President, whether Mr. ury, and in still a larger part by the indirect taxation of tariff rates. McKinley or Mr. Cleveland, performs it effectually if he has the There is not one dollar in that property to-day which has not been authority to do it. contributed by the people of the United States who have been the This agreement is in fieri, it is a continuing agreement, it is an patrons of the road, and there never was a dollar in the treasury incomplete agreement. I will remark again that we do not know of the company that was not contributed by the people. what it contains; we are kept in the dark as to even the terms of Therefore it is our duty to see that the contributions which it; but whatever it is, it is evidently an agreement that is not per­ have been made and those which are to be made are not thrown fected and completed. The President of the United States has the into the maw of men who seem to have no respect for law o1· jus­ right to recall that agreement, provided he findst first of all, that tice or righteousness, but whose business it is merely to fatten it was made without authority of law. upon these schemes, to fatten upon the opportunities that money Mr. WIDTE. Mr. President, if it will not interrupt the Sen­ and the law afford to them. It is our duty to see that they do ator from Alabama, seeking information again, I ask, is it not not do it. I am not surprised that every technicality is resorted more accurate, perhaps, to say that there is no agreement-using to, that every method of obstruction that can be conceived of by that term as meaning a valid contract-but that the situation of ingenious minds is resorted to now, and has been heretofore, to affairs is about this, that unless some action is taken the Gov­ prevent this investigation first, and to prevent the consummation ernment of the United States will permit the people referred to to of our purposes here, or the purpose of the Committee on Pacific take the property, and will receive only for its position in the Railroads as reported in the resolution of the Senator from Kansas. lWgation and its interest in the property the sum named by the :Mr. BACON. Will the Senator from Alabama permit me to Senator from Alabama; and that in carrying out that project the ask him a question? President of the United States is necessarily the instrument rep­ Mr. MORGAN. Certainly. resenting the Government, and, unless restrained by ust will Mr. BACON. I find that the concluding part of the joint reso­ probably contin:g.e to proceed in the same direction and make the lution is in these words: sale or bargain referred to by the Senator from Alabama? And that the President is requested to suspend proceedings to carry into 1\Ir. MORGAN. In order to get a full answertothepointssug­ effect the agreement alleged to have been made to sell the interest of the gested to me by the Senators, I hope they will let me complete my United States in the Union Pacific Railroad and in the sinking fund until t.ile answer now. We will first look at the proposition as to whether further action of Congress is had in reference thereto. this is an executed agreement. The decree has not been rendered The question I desi.re to ask the Senator from Alabama is in the cause for the sale of the property. We do not know, there­ whether he thinks there is any doubt whatever of the power of fore, what decree is going to be rendered or whether any decree is the President to suspend those proceedings? - going to be rendered. Then, of course, the property has not been Mr. MOR GAN. The Presidential office of course is a contin­ sold. There has been no money paid <>n the sale of this property. uous one. Mr. Cleveland held it and went out, and Mr. McKinley The transfer of the sinking fund, which is a. part oj this agreement, h olds it at present. Of course, it is a continuous office. W hat- is to take place, of course, naturally. .CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. 2595

I do not say what the te-rms are, because I can not ascertain necessarily put it out of court, for it is a nonentity after that time, them~ but the transfer of the sinking fund is to take place after and not a legal entity at all; and it could not be a party to a suit; the bid has been made, to enable Fitzgerald & Co. to pay their bid even that would have to stop. of forty-five million seven hundred and odd thousand dollars. The difficulty all the time in the mind of the Senator from Looking at it in that way, it is an unexecuted agreement, one that Nebraska and in the ininds of those who have been pursuing this bas not been completed. The Senate of the United States, there- ignis fatuus is that they assume that certain rights have been fore, turning its attention to this subject, declares that in its opin- vested in the pa1·ties holding interest under these charters, cor­ ion the President had no right to make such a, disposition of this porators, stockholders, bondholders, which are entirely incapable property. of being adjusted by future legislation of Congress; whereas .the What would an honest, conscientious Executive do on such a decision upon the Thurman Act broadly held that the Congress suggestion as that made in the Senate of the United States? The of the United States has the unlimited power of repeal and altera­ firstthlng he would do would be to ask that a scrutinizing inves- tion, and when I -say "unlimited," I do not mean that Congress tigation lle made by the Judiciary Committee of this body, or by can destroy a vested Tight of any kind, for the reason that the the entire body, to determine whether or not President Cleveland Constitution steps in there and throws its shield around a vested had the right to transfer the sinking fund. right and protects it; but beyond that, the Congress of the United Now, Mr. President, it is hardly a debatable proposition; there States from the very start has always had an unlimited right of ,ean hardly be a question about it, because whoever reads the stat- alteration, amendment, and repeal of any feature of this entire ute which created this sinking fund :Sees at once that it was a trust law and of all previous laws; and that was not only reenacted in fund :Set apart by the law for special and particular purposes, for the Thurman Act, but we actually practiced upon that proposition the payment of the bonds and interest and~ther debts of the Union of law and seized their income and applied it to this sinking fund, Pacific Company. and not to enable a bidder at a. judicial sale to · took it out of their control, whereas by the original charter they bid off the property at an advantage over other people. had a perfect right to control it; we seized it, we sequestered it, :Mr. ALLEN. Will the Senator from Alabama permit me right we put it into a sinking fund, and then we commanded that that there to make an inquiry? sinking fund shouid be a trust fund, and that it should not be The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. BACON in the chair). Does applied to any other purposes than those expressed in the statute. the Senator from Alabama yield to the Senator from Nebraska? I find no difficulty at all in answering the question of the Sena- :Mr. MORGAN. I do. tor from Nebraska, and I assert again~ as I asserted the other day, :ur. ALLEN. Is the Senator informed as to whether the Gov- my opinion that thewholefabricof this proceeding of foreclosure, ernment of the United States .has been impleaded in these equity as it is disclosed in the bills which have been filed and in the proceedings or not? answers thereto, is based upon the idea not that the Government Mr. MORGAN. The Government of the United States has re- of the United States had a statutory lien upon this property, but fused to beoome a party defendant in some of the cases, but to that the Government of the United States had a mortgage con­ <>thers it appears to have become a party defendant, and to have tract for .its protection. That is a total mistake, a total misap- made answer. prehension. · Mr. ALLEN. By what authority has it become a party? But that. Mr. President, is aside from the question of the power Mr. 1\iORGAN. By direction of the President of the United , of the President of the United States to take this sinking fund and States, acting through the Attorney-General. turn it over into the hands of a private individual representing a :Mr. ALLEN. The President, then, as I understand it, has di- .company of men and authorizing him to bid that property as a rected the Attorney-General to appear without process? part of the fund for the purchase of this estate. There can be no :hh. MORGAN. He gave the Attorney-General carte blanche justification for such a thing as that. There is no possible excuse to manage and control this property for the best interests of the for it. There is no part of the law of the United States that hints Government, and the Attorney-General has done that. at such a power in the President. On the contrary, he expressly Mr. ALLEN. Of his own volition? violates the statute when he undertakes to make a disposition of Mr. MORGAN. Yes. that fund to any other purposes than those to which it was dedi- Mr. ALLEN. Does the Senator regard that as binding upon cated when put into the sinking fund. the Government? I repeat again, that the only request that is made of the Presi- Mr. MORGAN. No; I do not. I think it would be almost dent of the United States in this resolution is the one which I absurd to answer that there was any question about it at all. At · have read: all events, here is a matter presented for the consideration of the And that the Pl·esident is requested to suBpend proceedings to carry into Senate of the United States and the President of the United States, effect the agreement alleged to have been mad-e to sell the interest of the which, to saytheleastofit,restsingrave doubt; and beforethecon­ United Sta.tes in the Union Pacific R.ailroaffice leaving this transac­ sist that to repeal the charter wonld deprive the courts of juris­ tion in this indefinite condition and the people of the United diction to dispose of the property in accordance with the lien States exposed to what we consider and honestly believe 0 be a upon it? great outrage? Mr. MORGAN. There is no doubt in my mind-none in the The Congress of the United States was in it.s expiring days, as world-that depriving this corporation Qf its charter powers would the Administration was also, crowded with appropriation bills 2596 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE. JULY 14, ancl every other matter that could command public attention, at The document referred to is as follows: the moment that this transaction was carried into the form of an [Senate Document No. 83, Fifty-fourth Congress, second session.] agreement. There was surprise about it; there was no opportu­ AGREEMENT WITH REORGANIZATION' COMMITTEE, UNION PACIFIC RAILROA..D.. nity to investigate, and if this extra session of Congress had not 'The Vice-President presented the following letter from the Attorney­ been called-and it was not at that time anticipated, at least no­ General, in response to Senate resolution of January 23, relative to alfl'ee• ment made with what is commonly known as the reorganization comnnttee borly lmew whethRr it was going to be called or not-we should of the Union Pacific Railroad Companl. respecting the fm·eclosure of the n et have had any opportunity to make a question about this case Government lien on the property ot sa1d company, and correspondence in until the next session of Congress, when all this matter would connection therewith: have passed into a consent decree and we would have been con­ D EPART}.IENT OF JUSTICE, TVashi11gton, D. C., January SS, 1897. fronted here then Yvith a consent decree between the President of SIR: I have the honor, pursuant to the Senate resolution of this date, to say that an agreement ha-s been made with what is commonly known as the the United States, or the officials of the United States, and Louis reorganization committee of the Union P acific Railway Company respecting Fitzgerald & Co. that would have been paraded in the' Senate the foreclosure of the Government lien on property of said company. I and in the House of Representatives as the conclusive action of transmit herewith a copy of the letter of the President of the United States under authority of which the agreement was made and foreclosure proceed­ this Government. ings have been commenced, and copies of the correspondence which embodies Sir, we have had no opportunity to investigate this question. the agreement. On the contrary, we have been shut off from opportunity to do The names of the ~entlemen who comprise the reorganization committee are as follows: Loms Fitzgerald, chairman; Jacob H . Schiff, T. Jefferson so; and I belie\'e it has been deliberately done. I believe that it Cooli.dge, jr., Chauncey M. Depew, Marvin Hughitt, Oliver Ame>1, 2d. • was expected that this agreement would be consummated in the These papers set fot:th all the information called for by the resolution. vacation of Congress. and when we got back here we should be After the closing of the agreement I designated the United States Trust Company of New York as the d epositary, and thereupon, upon the 21st in- confronted with the disposal of this property, of such a character stant , the sum of $4,500,000 was de.J.!OSited therein in conformity with the as that it would be said it is conclusively ascertained, and that terms of the agreement. The certificate r epresenting such deposit is now decision stands, no matter how outrageous it may have been. in the hands of the Secretary of the Treasury. I have the honor to be, with great r espect, your obedient servant, \Vould it not have been outrageous? Who can justify the taking JUDSON HARMON, of this sinking fund out of the Treasury of the United States by .Attomey-Genem1. an Executive act and turning it over into the hands of Louis T he PR.ESIDENT OF THE SENATE. Fitzger ald & Co.? On what ground can that be justified, either EXECUTIVE MANSION, Washington, Janttat·y 12, 1897. of law or morals or public policy? What excuse can there be for DEAR Srn: The bill which has been for some time pending before the Con­ an act of that kind? gre~ s. providing for the ad justment and extension of the indebtedness ot Sir, I have looked through it as carefully as I knew how, and in the Pacific railroads to the Government of the United States, has been de­ feated in the House of Represantatives. conference with other men wiser far than I am. and none of us In the case of the Union Pacific Railroad and the Kansas P acific Railroad, ever has been able to frame a reasonable or rational excuse for a default in the payment of their indebtedness having occurred, and suits such a disposal of that property and the funds that are in that having been commenced for the foreclosure of the lien upon said roads which is paramount to the lien and security of the United States, you are hereby sinking fund. As the resolution looks to tha.t more particularly diracted, pursuant to the provisions of an act of Congress passed March a, than anything else, I have chosen to confine my argument to-day 1887, after taking such precautions and perfecting such arrangoments as are to that proposition mainly. Heretofore I have had an opportu­ possible to assure as far as practicable the payment of their tnrlebtedness to the Government as a result of t he suits now pending or others to be insti­ nity of expressing my views on the subject of the legal rights of tuted, to take such proceedings in the courts as shall be needful to protect this corporation. They are in the RECORD, subject to be investi­ and defend the rights and interests of the United States in respect of such gated and combated, and I should like to see whether or not I am indebtedness, and to take steps to foreclose the mortgages or liens of the United States upon the property_ of these railroad companies. _ wrong about tllem. I shall give candid consideration to any ob­ In the case of the other aided Pauific raili·oads as to which no foreclosure jections that may be made to any view I have stated-before the suits are pending, a different situation is presented, which requires further Senate in respect of this matter. consideration before deciding the course to be taken by the Government. I regret more than I care to express the necessity that is incum­ Yours, truly, GROVER CLEVELAND. bent upon me and upon my colleagues on that committee to bring Hon. JuDSON HARMON, this subject up in the form in which it is brought up to-day. It Atto1·ney-General of the United States. is a subject which requires open, frank, free action on the part of D EPARTMENT OF J USTICE, the Senate of the United States. Instead of receiving that, it has Washington, D. C., Janua1·y 18, 1897. Teceived ob3truction at all times, as well during this session of Sm: Hon. George Hoadly, special assistant to the Attorney-General, has Congress as before, at the last session of Congress, when the junior sent me your letter to him of the 15th instant, making a proposition on behalf of your committee for a guaranteed minimum bid for the property of the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. THURSTON] occupied the floor for so Union Pacific and Kansas Pacific railway companies and the Union Pacific many days in opposition to a resolution when he saw that it was sinki.ng fund as a basis for the Government's proceeding to foreclose its lien impossible that the resolution could pass; and I was forced to take thereon. I am authorized by the President to commence foreclosure pro­ the subject out of the consideration of the Senate in order that the ceedings. as suggested in yom· proposal, provided it is modified in the follow­ in;:r pa1·ticulars: time of the Senate might be occupied with other business in which (1) In order to preserve the basis of the original informal negotiations, we were all interested. So there was no chance, against the Sen­ which took place in the absence of an accurate statement of the sinking fund, ator's objection, against his obstructive action on the resolutions your offer should be modified sothattheamountof the guaranteed bid therein named will be $

NEW YORK, January 15, 1897. It has been informally suggested that the committee of reorganization, of DEAR SIR: Replying, on behalf of the Union Pacific reorganization com­ which you are chairman, are prepared to enter into engagement to make a mittee, to your favor of the 14th instant, in which you request from this bid on the sale of the Union Pacific and Kansas Pacific railways, and of the committee such proposition as it may be willing to make fixing a guaranteed sinking fund of the Union Pacific Railway, of a sum which, without debar­ bid at foreclosure and sale for the interest of the United States in the Union ring the Government from accepting a higher bid at such sale, would afford Pacific Railway and for the Union Pacific sinking fund, I am authorized to some reasonable approximation to the value of the rights of the Government submit to you, and through you to the executive department of the Gov­ as a second mortgage of the property, if it should prove to be the highest and ernment, the following: best bid. ·In the event that the Government shall at once take proceedings in the I therefore solicit from you an early response to be communicated by me pending foreclosure suits, or by independent bills, for the enforcement of its to the executive department of the Government as to whether your commit­ li.en upon the railroad and property of the Union Pacific Railway (which in· tee would be willing to fix a sum which they would be willing to hid at a sale eludes the Kansas Pacific line) by sale thereof, and for the sale of the sinking if procured in foreclosure aud which would carry a perfect title to the prop­ fund in the hands of the Secretary of the Treasury relating to the Union erty, barring the I'ight of the United States as well as first mortgagees from future claim, so that we may know before commencing proceedings that we ~g!~~ ~~!K~0~J'~li~~eu:~N~~~ii~~s~~~~~e t\~~~~ai:3r~~~~ are secured at lea-st an approximate equivalent to the value of the property property embraced within the lien of the Government and for the cash and as the result of the prosecution of a foreclosure case such as the Attorney­ securities in the United States Union Pacific sinking fund, taken at par, General is authorized to bring. which shall produce to the Government, over and above any prior liens and I shall be glad if yon will kindly take up this matter for early action and charges upon the railways and sinking fund, the net sum of $45,000,000. if your committee are willing to bind themselves to make such a. bid. please The committee is prepared to furnish adequate security for the due per­ accompany your reply with detailed suggestions as to how the performance formance of the above offer. As such security it will deposit with such may be secured to the satisfaction of the Government. national depositary in New York City as may be selected by the proper offi­ Yours, truly, cers of the Government the sum of $4,500,000 in cash (namely, 10 per cent of GEORGE HOADLY. the guaranteed bid), subject to the condition that this deposit may be used, Gen. LOUIS FITZGERALD, 1$0 Broadway, City. under the terms of the foreclosure decree, as a deposit to qualify such bid­ ders as may act on behalf of the reorganization committee, and that to the Now, Mr. President, that is significant. George Hoadly, as €1Xtent to which the Government may determine the ·terms of decree, an able a lawyer as has lived in the last twenty decades, in pursuance equal deposit, to be made within a reasonable time before sale, shall be re­ of his trust, looking out for the interests of the United States-and q_uired a..'i a qualification of any other bidd~r. Should the Government de­ Sire to liquidate the sinking fund in advance of sale of the railway property no man knows better than does the Senator from Alabama that the reorganization committee will be prepared to anticipate this feature or1 when ex-Governor Hoadly is employed as a solicitor by a client, its offer by an earlier purchase of the sinking fund at par of the cash and securities therein contained. h~ stands for that client's rights and interests as he sees them to As the provision proposed is one of very considerable magnitude, and as be-Mr. Hoadly having watched this proceeding for two years. as the proposition is based upon conditions which now exist, it will be obvious he said, took the initiative and undertook to secure as a conces­ that the reorganization committee must reserve.\..and it desires to be under­ sion and a consideration before be entered the appearance of. the stood as reserving, the right to withdraw this orrer at any time previous to its acceptance by the Government. Government and started to foreclose its lien, some guaranty that I have the honor to be, very respectfully, yours, a sufficient amount would be bid, so that the property would not LOUIS FITZGERALD. be sacrificed at the ultimate sale. At the same time, able lawyer Chai1-man of the Reorganization Comrnittee of the Union Pacific RailtVay Company. as he was, careful of his client, the Government, he stipulated Ron. GEORGE HoADLY, that the sale should be an open one, the guaranty bid merely insur­ Special .Assistant to Att01-ney-Gene1·al, ing that the Government would not sacrifice the property for less, No. fJ2 William Street, New Yo1·k City. leaving the whole world to come to the sale. Mr. THURSTON. Not only that, Mr. President, but if the Mr. President, I confess that when I heard for the first time honorable Senator from Alabama had gone to the archives of the through the newspapers, a.s 1 did-because this proposition was Interior Department, where the reports of the Government direct­ published in the newspapers-that an arrangement was being ors are to be found, where they are kept of record and are peri­ made whereby the Government would go into court with its claim odically printed, he would have discovered the report of the five the same as anybody, submit its whole case to the court, ask for Government directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, a decree for what was its due, let the court, with the United filed some time last winter, containing this entire correspondence States Supreme Court the ultimate tribunal, pass upon all these and a 1i ttle more of it than was embodied in the report of the com­ questions, settle and determine once for all what the rights o.f all munication of the Attorney-General to the Senate that I have parties might be, I hailed that condition of things with joy. made a part of my remarks. Mr. TURPIE. I should like to ask the Senator from Nebraska The honorable Senator would have discovered that the Govern­ a question. ment, as per the last two annual reports of the Attorney-General, Mr. THURSTON. Certainly. had employed one George Hoadly, of New York City, to represent Mr. TURPIE. I have no disposition to take away anything the interests of the Government in the Union Pacific litigation, from the very high encomiums upon Judge Hoadly. I understand George Hoadly having been an erstwhile Democratic governor of what was done in the way of securing the guaranty of the deposit the State of Ohio, and somewhat prominent in the councils of the of a sum of money and other provisional arrangements to be party of the Senator from Alabama, being a lawyer second to no made before he entered his appearance. Yet after all we begin man in the United States for ability, and with a reputation for to see tv-day that perhaps a great error was made in entering an character and integrity that has never yet been questioned or appearance at all. Admitting, however, that it was with the very assailed. best intention, with the Yery best faith for the interests of the The Senator from Alabama would have the country understand Government, that an anticipated bid, a minimum, at least, for the that certain evil-disposed persons set up some scheme on the road, was asked for, I see no explanation why he should have made United States and induced its President and its Attorney-General any provision for a sale of the sinking fund. In other words, the to enter into some sort of an arranp:ement disadvantageous to the sinking fund is cash in the Treasury. Why should any arrange­ people; but this arrangement was first sought and solicited and ment be made for the sale of money? invited for the protection of the Government by Mr. George Mr. THURSTON. Let me explain that, and I think I will Hoadly, the special solicitor of the Government. The initiatory satisfy the Senator. The sinking fund is held in the Treasury of this arrangement-and I say to the Senator from Alabama that not in the shape of cash, but in the shape of interest-bearing he will find it in the records of the Interior Department, where securities, and a part of those Recurities are first-mortgage bonds all the reports of the Government directors are kept-the initi­ of the Union Pacific Railroad. ative was by letter of January 14, 1897, sent by ex-Governor The proposition was to bid forty-five million seven hundred and Hoadly to Gen. Louis Fitzgerald, and this is the letter: odd thousand dollars over and above the amount of all prior liens , NEW YoRK, Janua1-y 11., 1897. on the property, so that the Government, less the amount of the DEAR SrR: As you are probably aware. I have for more than two years sinking fund, wonld receive ft.l::ty-five million seven hundred and past had charge, under·the directiOn of the Attorney-General of the United odd thousand dollars. If the Senator from Indiana will analyze States, as special assistant to him, of the interest of the United States in the matter of its issue of subsidy bonds and its lien securing the same upon the this proposition, as I expect to do when this matter comes up for Union Pacific Railway. full discussion, he will discover that this gua1·anty or this ar­ The defeat of the proposed funding bill by the House of Representatives rangement is not necessarily an arrangement to sell the sinking renders it certain that the President, the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Attorney-General must look in some other direction for the protection of the fund to the reorganization committee, but it consists simply of a interests of the United States. guaranty that they will take the securities in the sinking fund After a careful consideration by the late and present Attorney-General- at par, and that their bid will be enough, in addition to those Referring to Mr. Olney- . securities at par, to make up the $45,000,000. and myself, it was decided at an early stage in the history of the Pacific Mr. TURPIE. I do not think it material at all as to whether railroad litigation that the Government should not appear in that cause the sinking fund is in money. It is immaterial whether it is in until the parties responsible and competent to act should appear who would cash or in its equivalent. The securities may be better than enter into some definite arrangement for a bid upon the property (including the sinking fund)- money. But I take the transaction to have been just exactly as I suggest to the Senator that the proposition to include the sink­ described in the joint resolution of the Senator from Kansas, in ing fund came from the Government, and it was suggested by which it is spok_en of as an agreement alleged to have been made nobody else- to sell the. interest of the United States in the Union Pa.cifie Rail­ road and in the sinking fund. It is a sale and transfer of the at such a rate as would afford reasonable protection to the interests of the ~~;~~States, and yet not prevent competition, which might result in larger sinking fund, the moneys or securities of which it is composed, as well as the Union Pacific Railroad. I see no reason yet, I am 2598 ~ONGRESSIONAL: RECORD-=-SENATE.~ JULY 14, sorry to say. I am not at all satisfied why the sinking fund ought Populist party of my State, by Mr. Bryan on the stump and in to have been made a part of the agreement or to have been con­ Congress-when I heard that it had come into court with its case, sidered in connection with it. whatever it was, with its equities, whatever they might be, sub­ Mr. MORGAN. IIi Exhibit C to the bill, filed by the Govern­ mitted all the interests of all the lien holders to the determination ment of the United States in the Kansas court-the same bill was of the courts of our country, I thanked God for two or three rea­ filed in Nebraska also-this statement is made: sons. First, because an adjudication and disposition of this prop­ .erty' the termination of the liens, their priorities, the closing out of OFFICE OF TREASURER UNITED STATES, JanuanJ 16, 1897. the whole business at whatever t he property would bring would Uninvested cash in said sinking fund, including_~l,Oll,OOO princ:ipal of ma­ tured Pacific bonds (currency sixes), paid by the United States, $3,608,809.99. take this whole vexed question of the Union Pacific Railroad out of the politics of the country, and of my part of the country espe­ There is that amount of actual cash in the Treasury in the sink­ cially. It would no longer be a bone of vexation and contention. ing fund. The whole amount in the sinking fund, including I was glad for another reason-because the time had to come United States bonds z.nd first-mOl'tgage bonds of the Union Pa­ some time when a new purchaser would take possession of this cific, Central Pacific, Kansas Pacific, Sioux City and Pacific, railway company, divorced from all governmental complications, Central Branch, and Western Pacific, wa~ $17,254,059.99. and begin to operate it as all other raih·oad companies operate Mr. TURPIE. How much was there in cash? their roads, as a private institution under the laws of the States Mr. THURSTON. The Senator from Alabama read something through which the roads run. more than $3,000,000. I have always insisted that whenever this property was disposed Mr. MORGAN. In cash. of under judicial sale it must necessarily go to a new corporation Mr. THURSTON. In cash. or creation of the States through which the lines of the road ex­ Mr. ALLEN. What are the securities worth? tended, and I have been thanking God in the certainty of that, Mr. 1\IORGAN. They may be worth more than par. too. that this great property should be stripped of that defensive Mr. THURSTON. What I suggest totbe Senator is this: Very Federal incorporation which is always interposed against the local much is said about including the sinking fund in this transaction. claims and demands of the several States and the people thereof, The sinking fund does not cut any figure one way or the other. and that it should for the future be operated under State charters It does not furnish the basis for a single argument pro or con on subject to the people of the State of Colorado, subject to the peo­ this proposition. The sinking fund is seventeen million seven hun­ ple of the State of Wyoming, the people of the State of Kansas, dred and odd thousand dollars, money in cash, we will say, or and the people of the State of Nebra.ska. securities equivalent to cash. The guaranty of the bid is enough Congress, in my judgment, could not grant a new charter to to make forty-five million seven hundred and odd thousand dol­ the purchasers of that p1·operty. The only theoTy upon which lars, mcluding the sinking fund, or, to state it the other way­ the grant was originally sustained, I believe, was that we were and it makes no difference which way you state it-$28,000,000 extending a Government agency through the Territories of the clear payment to the Government of the United States, not includ­ United States. I have never believed-I do not believe, I can not ing the sinh--ing fund. believe-that even as a military necessity or for governmental Mr. TELLER. The Government to keep the sinking fund? transportation the United States can charter or build a road Mr. THURSTON. The Government to keep the sinking fund. through the sovereign States of the Unit.ed States. I do not be­ The statement is just as broad as it is long. The guaranty is only lieve it. When this road was huilt it extended wholly through a guaranty of $~8,000,0 00 in addition to the sinking fund. That is the Territories of the United States. To-day every foot of it is in all. The Government indebtedness, principal, was something over the States. Some one might pick me up on that statement by $34,000,000. The interest paid amounts to something like 832,000,- referring to Kansas, which was in the Union before the road was 000 or $33,000,000, not reimbursed by earnings and in other ways. built, but the road in Kansas was not built under a United States The total claim of the Government against this property is some­ charter. thing like sixty-six, sixty-seven, or sixty-eight million dollars. It Mr. GEAR. The same as the road in California. has 817,000,000, nearly S18,000,000, in the sinking fund to apply Mr. THURSTON. The same as the road in California. Both upon that, leaving less than S50,000,000 net due the United States were built under State charters, by State corporations, subject to from the company; and on that the guaranty bid is S28,000,0CO. State laws. Mr. ALLEN. Will my colleague permit me to ask him a ques­ Now, Mr. President, I rejoiced, I say, that this property had tion? gone into the possession of the courtt~ to be finally disposed of. I Mr. THURSTON. Certainly. did not believe, I do not believe that there is any danger of loss to Mr. ALLEN. The sale of the Union Pacific Railroad carries the United States of America when the law officers of our Gov­ with it not only the line itself, the track, right of way, etc., but ernment are presenting its case, making its claim, setting up its also carries the telegraph system and something like $14,000,000 equities in the courts of the United States. Whatever decree is worth of real estate, as well as the coal mines in Wyoming, which rendered there will be subject to revision by the highest tribunal I think Mr. Kimball at one time stated to a committee of which in the land. Whatever sale is directed will be an open ,sale to the the Senator from Maine [.Mr. FRYE] was chairman were worth bidders of the world, to the capitalists of the universe. It will be more than the entire railway system. I ask my colleague if the like any other sale of a railroad under several distinct mortgages. assets I have mentioned would pass into the hands of the recon­ I am not here to enter· a special defense for the original pro­ struction company by virtue of the _sale? moters and constructors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. Mr. THURSTON. I will say to the Senator that I replied to I do not know thorn, I . know nothing about them. The con­ that question once on the floor of the Senate, and I will reply fully struction took place long before I was even in the country through when the joint resolution comes up for consideration. I do not which the road was built. Whatever has been done and 8aid pro propose at this late hour and in the discussion of another subject­ and con is.a matter of history. But that has nothing to do with matter before the Senate to enter fully into all these questions. I the present situation. Here is a property with the first mortgage was only drawn into the matter of the sinking fund by the sug­ due, the second mortgage due, other mortgages due. What is the gestion of the Senator from Indiana. I have stated the proposi­ United States, the owner of the mortgage, anymore than any man tion, and stated it fairly. There is no trick about it. There is the owner of a mortgage, that it should refuse to go into court no concealment in it. Anybody who runs can read. The guar­ and set up its claim and have it adjudicated, and take its just and anty is $28,000,000 to the Government of the United States in lawful proportion of the purchase price? • addition to the sinking fund. If the Government keeps the sink­ :Mr. President, it is of the utmost importance to the people of ing fund, the bid is $28,000,000, and if the sinking fund is put in, my portion of the country that this whole question shall be set­ the bid is $45,000,000. tled, and settled now; that whoever is to purchase the road shall :Mr. TURPIE. In either case it is about 50 cents on the dollar. purchase it and start under anew operation under State charters, Mr. THURSTON. In either case it is nearly 60 cents on the and do it now. We are just commencing towakeupin the West, dollar. and we are waking up to the splendid prospects of the new pros­ Mr. TURPIE. I think it is not over 50 cents; and I think that perity that is already upon us. It is important to us that this is a pretty low bid. great railway property shall be started out now under private . Mr. THURSTON. . I have not the figures, but later on I can ownership, subject to the laws of our States, and operated as all give them to the Senator. I think, deducting the sinking fund, other railroads are operated. . . the net due the Government is less than $50,000,000, about S48,- Do you say, Mr. President, or do the Senators upon the other 000,000. The guaranty bid is aboutS28,000,000. Thatmakesvery side say, there is overcapitalization by the promoters, who are to nearly 60 per cent. I think in my former discussion, when I had become the purcha.sers? What difference does that make to you the figures before me, I figured it at something like 56 or 57 per or to me or to our people? Every 1·ailroad corporation which has cent. built a railroad in any part of our country has been overcapital­ I did not intend to be drawn into the diScussion this far. I was ized. Its stock has been watered. Its funds have been squan­ merely outlining how this matter came up. I say that when I dered. What of it? Make this a State corporation of Nebraska, heard that the Government had agreed to take its whole case into of Wyoming, of Colorado, of Utah, and of Kansas, and the people court, a course of procedure which had been insisted upon by the of those States can fix the rates. They can not do it while it 1897. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. f2599 remains a Federal instrumentality and a Federal corporation. It are, anywhere in the country will come in here with a guaranty is their chance, it is their opportunity. of a bigger bid, backed up by a deposit of four million and a. half While on this subject let me venture to make another suggestion, of dollars, I will give unanimous consent for the passage of thiS and it is a. conviction that has come to me after many years of fa­ or any other 1·esolution tying this :procedure up. But they do not miliarity with the subject. When people are talking about the do it and they will not do it. There is nothing to gain; there is tremendous difficulties of dealing with railway combinations and everything to lose. feder ations, the United States Government can meet those. speed­ Now, Mr. President, a few more words and I am done, so far~ ily and quickly and effectively, if it chooses. The rate-making the discussion at the present time upon a resolution which has no power on inte1·state lines is in the hands of Congress. You do not relation to the remarks that have been made during the afternoon need to go to the capital stock nor the bonded indebtedness, nor do is concerned. they in a State. The remedy is clear. It is ample. Whenever Mr. MORGAN. Will the Senator from Nebra.ska allow me to gentlemen-not referring to Senators here, and not intending to ask him a question? exclude them either-but whenever gentlemen on the outside go Mr. THURSTON. Certainly. before the people and talk and talk and talk, and,weary night and Mr. MORGAN. The bidder at this sale, Fitzgerald & Co., has weary day, and daze heaven and angels and mortals with their out­ a right to start a bid at forty-seven million seven hundred and odd cries against corporations, I answer them here as I have always thousand dollars, using the sinking fund, $17,000,000, as a part of answered them: You have the power in Congress to regulate every that bid. Now, does not the competitor of Fitzgerald & Co. interst ate rate in the country. You do not need governmental necessarily have to put up a sum of money; actual money, larger ownership in order to give the people justice and to give them fair than the forty-seven million seven hundred and odd thousand transportation rates. doiiars before he can start on the property? Whenever Congress is 1·eady to act upon this important ques­ Mr. THURSTON. No, Mr. President; the sinking fund is tion, I for one am ready to act with it, for, in my judgment, the equivalent to cash. As I said, that cuts no figure to the bidder or i;egulation of interstate rates in this country by the Congress of to the Government in any way, shape, or manner. This agree­ ~he United States will yet be the salvation of every man who has ment can be performed by a bid not of $47,700,000, as the Senator mvested in railroad stock or bonds. There is no such danger to says, to start it, but the bid must be an amount equal to all the first­ be feared by the stockholders of the railroads of this country from mortgage liens on the property, certainly not less than $34,000,000 Congressional regulation of railroad rates as there is to be feared plus $45,700,000. from the breach of faith among the traffic managers of the rail­ }!r. MORGAN. That is not provided for in the agreement: roads of the United States, who make agreements only to break Mr. THURSTON. Certainly it is, Mr. President. If the Sen­ them, who pledge faith in their conferences only to walk out of ator will read it he will see. the door and give dfrections to those under them to go and get the Mr. DAVIS. Do you understand that it is the amount of the business. first-mortgage bonds and then $45,000,000 more? So, Mr. President, I was glad when I found that this whole Mr. THURSTON. Certainly. property was to go into the court, all parties before it, everybody's Mr. MORGAN. That is not the agreement. right secure, an open bid. Then I found that before the late Mr. THURSTON. Certainly, that is the agreement as clearly President, concerning whom I never said very much that was as the language of man can make it. ~ood , would permit this GQvernment to go into court, he had se­ Mr. MORGAN. Will the Senator point that out now? He has ~ured a guaranty bid, an upset price sufficient at least to guar­ the papers before him. antee that the property would not be sacrificed at forced sale, and Mr. THURSTON. Certainly. The first mortgage stands ahead he secured a deposit of S4,500,000; and the report from the Attor­ of the Government. It is under foreclosure: ney-General's Office which was presented and filed here on the 27th The reorganization committee is prepared to guarantee a minimum paid day of last January shows that the$4,500, 000 was actually deposited for the Union and Kansas Pacific lines of railroad and property embraced to the credit of the law officers of the United States, to be forfeit within the lien of the Government, and for the cash and securities in the if this upset guaranty price is not bid at the foreclosure sale. Union Pacific sinking fund, taken at par, which shall produce to the Govern­ ment, over and above any prior liens and charges upon the railways, a sink­ Now, what I say is this: You can not back out and hold the ing fund, the net sum of $45,000,000. guaranty. Good faith on one side is the requirement of good faith on the other. If the Government passes this resolution, you Mr. President, it seems to me, and I sayit diffidently, that there absolve that guaranty bid, you release that four million and a has been the most general misinformation on this subject exhibited half deposited to back it up; and if the court should say that the in the Senate that it is possible for the mind of man to contemplate. Government is before them, and that the case is to go on, and a Mr. WHITE. If it will not interrupt the Senator from Ne­ decree is entered, your property goes to sale without a guaranty braska-- pf a bid; and in my judgment there will never be a dollar bid over Mr. THURSTON. Not at all. and above th~ first-mortgage claim. · Mr. WIDTE. I will inquire whether it is, in the opinion of the Mr. GEAR. May I sugges..t to the Senator that if the Govern­ Senator, a fact that this property will pay 4 per cent interest on ment does that it has to put up the money and take possession of $120,000,000? the property? Mr. THURSTON. That is an absolutely problematical ques· Mr~ THURSTON. To do what is asked now, it will have to in­ tion. vest another $34,000,000 in the property and take its chances in Mr. WHITE. Is it doing that at present? getting it at some other time. Mr. THURSTON. No; it is not, nor anything like it. Mr. GEAR. And if we pursued the same policy in regard to Mr. WHITE. Is the1·e any statement or paper, I would inquire the Southern Pacific, the Government would be out one hundred of the Senator from Nebraska, from which we can get accurate and thirty-eight millions in money. information in reference to the earning capacity of the road dur­ Mr. TELLER. I wish to ask the Senator from Nebraska a ing the last ten years? question. Mr. THURSTON. I have no doubt that the Government di­ Mr. THURSTON. Certainly. rectors have all that information. Mr. TELLER. Does the Senator consider that this arrangement Mr. HARRIS. May I ask the indulgence of the Senator from was made consistent with the act of 1887? I mean the Fitzgerald Nebraska for a moment? arrangement. Mr. THURSTON. Certainly. . Mr. THURSTON. Unquestionably. I discussed that at the Mr. HARRIS. I read a statement which is submitted by the last session, and when this matter comes up I have-- reorganization committee themselves showing that the net earn­ Mr. TELLER. I did not hear the Senator then. That has been ings of the road for the last six years have averaged over $6,500,- the trouble I have been finding with the matter. It seemed tome 000, and also the opinion of Mr. Ellery Anderson that the road is it was in violation of the act of 1887. capable of earning 4 per cent on $120,000,000. Mr. THURSTON. I have never felt that the act of 1887 placed Mr. WffiTE. I so understood the Senator from Kansas. any limitation on the power of the United States to proceed regu­ 1\Ir. THURSTON. If the Senator will excuse me, that is the larly in court as best it could for the foreclosure of this mortgage eighteen hundred and odd miles of road on only 1,400 miles of lien. I have never felt that redemption from the first mortgage which the Gov.ernment has a lien. That includes the terminals was a condition precedent to the right of foreclosure. I have at Denver, upon which there has never been a pretense that the never believed that possible. I do not think it can be. I think the Government had a lien. act of 1887 wa-s mere authority to the executive officers of the Mr. HARRIS~ I will reply to the Senator that Mr. Anderson's Unit ed States~ if in their judgment they thought they could secure estimate, as he expressly stated, was exclusive of the terminals their interest better, to pay off the first mortgage. I have always when he found a value of S120,000,000, applying it wholly to the felt that it is utterly impossible that Congress could provide that 1,400 miles of aided road. jt could not enforce its own lien without first investing still deeper Mr. THURSTON. It is very easy for the gentleman to figure it of its moneys in the property. As I said, I will discuss that when out himself. Here are 1,400 miles of road that the Government this matter comes up for consideration. has a lien on. There is a first-mortgage lien ahead of it, conceded, Now, Mr. President, if any set of gentlemen, I care not who they of $34,000,000 on 1,400 miles of road. The Government also gets I

2600 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JULY 14, net, over and above that, $28,000,000. That is $52,000,000 that Mr. THURSTON. The arrangement simply is for a guaran­ 1,400 miles of road must bring. That is almost $40,000 per mile tied bid, and I suppose it would be protected, as such things are, for the very road that the Senator from Kansas said could be in the decree of the court, where an upset price for the property built for $16,000 or $18,000 a mile. would be provided. If the property did not bring that , or if, for Mr. TELLER. I should like to ask the Senator what roads are any reason afterwards, the court found that an inadequate price figured in to m ake up the 1.800 miles. had been paid, the sale would be set aside. 1\Ir. THURSTON. The Union P acific main line, from the Mis· 1\fr. DAVIS. I move that the Senate proceed to the considera- souri River to Ogden, Utah, 1,032 miles in length-- tion of executive business. . Mr. DAVIS. One thousand and thirty-eight. Mr. ALLEN. Will the Senator from Minnesota withdraw that 1\Ir. THURSTON. No; there were 5 additional miles that un­ motion for just a moment? d er an adjustment consented to by the Government went to the The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. BACON in the chair). Does Central Pacific 1·oad. · the Senator from Minnesota withdraw the motion? Mr. DAVIS. West of Ogden? Mr. DAVIS. I will withdraw the motion for a moment. Mr. THURSTON. West of Ogden. Then, on the east, 394 ~Ir. ALLEN. The Senator from Minnesota yields to me for a miles, the Kansas Pacific line, from the Kansas eastern S~ate moment. I wish to inquire what is the parliamentary status of boundary to the one hundredth degree of meridian . the question, and what will be its parliamentary status to-morrow .Ur. TELLER. Does that take in the Denver Pacific? morning? · Mr. THURSTON. It does not take in the Denver Pacific, nor The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question before the Senate does it take in the Kansas Pacific west of the three hundred and is the consideration of House joint resolution 76. The joint reso­ ninety-fourt.h milepost. No subsidy was ever given by the United lution is before the Senate as in Committee of the Whole and open States Government in the way of bonds for the construction of to amendment. any of that property. The Denver Pacific between Denver and Mr. ALLEN. I understand that it will come up to-morro-w Cheyenne was a State corporation. The Government has not regularly. · the slightest claim on it. Mr. HAWLEY. I hope the pending joint resolution will be Mr. TELLER. That is correct. acted upon now. It is a mere matter of form. No human being Mr. THURSTON. The Denver terminals are private property; can object to it. It is of some importance that it shall pass speedily. the Gov ernmeri~ has not the slightest claim on them, and under - :Mr. ALLEN. But before consent is given to do that I want to the decision of the Supreme Court of the United States the Kansas ask the chairman of the Committee on Pacific Railroads if there Pacific line west of the three hundred and ninety-fourth milepost, will be any opposition to-morrow to taking up the resolution which was constructed by a State corporation, is private property, which the Senator from Kansas has in charge? - on which there are other liens. The Government has not any lien Mr. GEAR. I can not say that. I can only answer for myself. upon it at all. I can not answer for anybody else. I shall oppose it. Mr. GEAR. It leaves 400 miles without a Government lien? Mr. HAWLEY. We can not hear on this side. 1\Ir. THURSTON. The only line that the United States has a Mr. GEAR. I say I can not answer except for myself. The lien on is 1,030 miles from Omaha to Ogden and a disconnected gentleman asked me if there will be any opposition to taking up piece of property 3!:14 miles in length in Kansas. . the joint resolution to-morrow on the part of gentlemen here. I Mr. GEAR. There are about four hundred and odd miles on can only answer for myself. I shall oppose it. Other gentlemen that whole system that the Government has no lien whatever on, will do as they please. are there not? Mr. ALLEN. May I be permitted to ask if Senators will oppo~e Mr. THURSTON. Four hundred and odd miles. it to the extent of sitting in their chairs and not voting, and not Mr. ALLEN. Is it not a disputed question? making a quorum? · Mr. GEAR. The courts have dealt with it. Mr. GEAR. That is a foolish question. Mr. ALLEN. ·The courts have not gone to that extent. Mr. ALLEN. It is not a foolish question at all. Mr. THURSTON. If they have a lien on it, what I say is that Mr. DAVIS. I insist on my motion. it is· in court, and the officers of the Government are asking the Mr. HAWLEY. I hope the Senator from Minnesota will not court to say what its lien is upon and what it extends to. What press his motion. The pending joint resolution is a matter of is the use of our wearying ourselves month after month and year form and should be disposed of. after year discussing as to whether or not the Government has a Mr. STEWART. Consent will not be given. lien on this part of the line or the other when they are in court 1\fr. HAWLEY. Yes, it will. The Senator in charge of the and the courts have got to decide it ultimate1y, and we can not Pacific Railroad matter is perfectly willing that I should secure control the decision of the courts? the passage of the joint resolution. Now, Mr. President, as I was saying, I only rose to reply very Mr. HARRIS. I will say to tbe Senator from Minnesota that I briefly to the Senator from Alabama, who has suggested that would be very glad if, before insisting upon his motion, be will there bas been filibustering here to-day on this subject. On yes­ allow the pending joint resolution to be passed, because I yielded terday afternoon we on this side, in view of the large number of for its consideration, not supposing that it would lead to this deba.te absentees and in view of the situation of several Senators who at all. desired to go away and get a little restor to transact a little busi· The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Minnesota n ess, asked the Senate to adjourn until to-morrow morning. I withdraw the motion? . insisted this morning-I do not know that I will say that I insisted, Mr. HAWLEY. I beg pardon for trespassing inTegard to the but I would have insisted if I had taken the floor to speak on the measure in chaTge of my friend the Senator from New Jersey subject-that this was too important a question to be discussed [Mr. SEWELL], but I ask unanimous consent that the joint resolu­ before a minority of the Senate, that we ought to have a full and tion be put upon its passage. a fair and complete hearjng by a full Senate, and I knew that Mr. SEWELL. Unanimous consent has already been given for could not be had here to-day. its consideration. If we had adjourned over until to-morrow morning, there would The PRESIDING OFFICER. The joint resolution is before the not have been ahy opposition unless it was in the simple way of Senate as in Committee of the Whole by unanimous consent. voting on the question to take this matter up, and there will not Does the Senator from Minnesota withdraw his motion to proceed be any to-morrow morning, so far as I know, except that we may to the consideration of executive business .that the joint resolution wish to record our votes against proceeding to the consideration may be passed? . of the joint resolution. I shall vote against its present considera­ Mr. DAVIS. I withdraw it for that purposer tion because, from the first resolution that was introduced by my The PRESIDING OFFICER. If there be no amendment as in colleague, the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. ALLEN]~at the last Committee of tbe Whole, the joint resolution will be reported to session up to the present report, the only result that can possibly the Senate. flow from their consideration and discussion is to relieve the guar­ The joint resolution was reported to the Senate without amend­ anty bid of this property, and, in my judgment, to leave it open ment, ordered to a third reading, read the third time, and passed. to the result of foreclosure sale, on which the United States will EXECUTIVE SESSION. never receive one-half~ one-third, one-fourth the amount of the Mr. DAVIS. I move that the Senate proceed to the considera­ present guaranty bid. tion of executive business. Mr. President, that is all I care to say at this time. The motion wa.tr agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the Mr. WHITE. I will ask the Senator from Nebraska whether, considerat.ion of executive business. After twenty-five minutes in his judgment, the engagement or whatever it may beintowhich the last Administration entered regarding this matter is con­ spent in executive session the doat's were reopened. tractural in the sense that it can not be abandoned, or is it in an DEFICIENCY .APPROPRIATION BILL. inchoate condition, in the view of the Senator? The PRESIDING OFFICER laid before the Senate the action Mr. THURSTON. I have no doubt that it can be abandoned. of the House of Representatives disagreeing to the amendments The United States can back out if it is desirable to do so. of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 13) making appropriations to sup­ Mr. WHITE. That was my own view of the matter. ply deficiencies in the appropriations for the fiscal· year ending t ~\

1897. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-ROUSE. 2601

June 30, 1897, and for prior years, and for othel' purposes, and COLLECTC>RS OF CUSTOMS. asking for a conference with the Senate on the disagreeing votes Charles B. Roberts, of Wisconsin, to be collector of customs for of the two Houses thereon. the district of Milwaukee, in the State of Wisconsin, to succeed - Mr. HALE. I move that the Senate insist upon its amend­ August Ross, whose term of office has expired by limitation. ments and agree to the conference asked for by the House of George W. :McCowan, of New Jersey, to be collector of customs Representatives. for the district of Bridgeton, in the State of New Jersey, to suc­ The motion was agreed to. ceed Theodore R. Love, whose term of office has expired by limi­ By unanimous consent, the Presiding Officer was authorized to tation. appoint the conferees on the part of the Senate; and Mr. HALE, NAVAL OFFICER OF CUSTOMS. Mr. CULLOM, and Mr. COCKRELL were appointed. Mr. WHITE. I move that the Senate adjourn. Robert A. Sharkey, of New York, to be naval officer of customs 1 in the district of New York, in the State of New York, in place of The motion was agreed to; and (at 5 o'clock and 27 minutes Christopher C. Baldwin, deceased. p.m.) the Senat~ adjourned until to-morrow,- Thursday, July 15, 1897, at 12 o'clock meridian. COLLECTOR OF INTERNAL REVENUE. Charles 1\L Webster, of Montana, to be collector of internal NOMINATIONS. reve:me for the district of Montana, to succeed Ambrose W. Lyman, resigned. Executive nominations received by the Senate July 11,., 1897. Rl'ITOY EXTRAORDINARY AND MINISTER PLENIPOTENTIARY. COMMISSIONER OF IMMIGRATION. William L. Merryt of California, to be envoy extraordinary and Thomas Fitchie~ of New York, to be commissioner of immigra- minister plenipotentiary of the United States to Nicaragua, Costa tion at the port of New York, in the State of New York, to sue- Rica, and Salvador, vice Lewis Baker, resigned. ceed Joseph H. Senner, removed. MINISTER RESIDENT AND CONSUL-GENERAL. Horace N. Allen, of Ohio, now secretary of legation and vice CONFIRMATIONS. and deputy consul-general at Seoul, to be minister resident and Executive nominations confirmed by the Senate July 11,., 1897. consul-general of the United States to Korea, vice John M. B. Sill, PROMOTIONS IN THE ARMY, resigned. Cavalry ar-m. CONSUL-GENERAL. Lieut. Col. Guy Vernon Henry, Third Cavalry, to be colonel. Perry M. De Leon, of Georgia, to be consul-general of the Lieut. Col. Louis Henry Ca1·penter, Seventh Cavalry, to be United States at Guayaquil, Ecuador, vice George G. Dillard, colonel. resigned. Lieut. Col. Samuel Baldwin Marks Young, Fourth Cavalry, to CONSULS. be colonel. William L. Sewell, of Ohio, to be consul of the United States at Lieut. Col. John Mosby Bacon, First Cavalry, to be colonel. Toronto, Ontario, vice John W. Coppinger, resigned. 1\Iaj. Adna Romanza Chaffee, Ninth Cavalry, to be lieutenant- Edward H. Ozmun, of Minnesota, to be consul of the United colonel. States at Stuttgart, Germany, vice Alfred C. Johnson, resigned. Maj. Michael Cooney, Fourth Cavalry, to be lieutenant-colonel. Henry W. Diederich, of the District of Columbia, to be consul Maj. James Jackson, Second Cavalry, to be lieutenant-colonel. of the United States at Magdeburg, Germany, vice Julius Muth, Maj. Louis Thompson Morris, Third Cavalry, to be lieutenant- resigned. colonel. . Charles W. Erdman, of Kentuckf, to be consul of the United Capt. William Curtis Forbush, Fifth Cavalry, to be major. · States at Fiirth, Germany, vice Henry C. Carpenter, resigned. Capt. Jacob Arnold Augur, Fifth Cavalry, to be major. · Samuel E. Magill, of illinois, to be consul of the United States Capt. William Alexis Thompson, Fourth Cavalry, to be major. at Tampico, Mexico, vice John Maguire, resigned. Capt. John Sylvanus Loud, Ninth Cavalry, to be major. George J. Corey, of lllinois, to be consul of the United States First Lieut. Henry Joseph Goldman, Fifth Cavalry, to be cap~ at Amsterdam, Netherlands, vice Edward Downes, resigned. tain. Grenville James, of New York, to be consul of the Ur~tedStates First Lieut. Augustus Canfield Macomb, Fifth Cavalry, to be at Prescott, Ontario, vice Joseph Whalen, resigned. captain. · Radcliffe H. Ford, of Maine, to be consul of the United Stat€s First Lieut. Thomas Jefferson Lewis, Second Cavah·y, to be at Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, vice Charles A. O'Connor, resigned. captain. Frederick W. Hossfeld, of Iowa, to be consul of the United States First Lieut. Hugh Joslyn McGrath, Fourth Cavalry, to be cap~ at Trieste, Austria, vice J. Edward Nettles, resigned. tain. John C. Covert, of Ohio, to be consul of the United States at First Lieut. John Ferral McBlain, Ninth Cavalry, to be captain. Lyons, France, vice Frank E. Hyde, resigned. Second Lieut. Lawrence Julian Fleming, Tenth Cavalry, to be William K. Anderson, of Michigan, to be consul of the United first lieutenant. States at Hanover, Germany, vice Edward P. Crane, resigned. Second Lieut. James Joseph Hornbrook, Second Cavalry, to be William W. Henry, of Vermont, to be consul of the United first lieutenant. States at Quebec, Canada, vice Philip B. Spence, resigned. Second Lieut. William Franklin Clark, Seventh Cavah·y, to be John F. Caples, of Oregon, to be consul of the United States at first lieutenant. Valparaiso, Chile, vice James M. Dobbs, resigned. Second Lieut. Samuel Goode Jones, jr., Second Cavalry, to be Daniel T. Phillips, of Illinois, to be consul of the United States first lieutenant. at Cardiff, Wales, vice Anthony Howells, resigned. Second Lieut. Oren Browning Meyer, Second Cavalry, to be :Mahlon Van Horne, of Rhode Island, to be consul of the United first lieutenant. States at St. Thomas, West Indies, vice James H. Stewart, re- Second Lieut. Charles Jacobs Symmonds, Seventh Cavalry, to be signed. · first lieutenant. Adam Lieberknecht, of illinois, to be consul of the O'nited States POSTMASTER. at Zurich, Switzerland, vice Eug€ne Germain, resigned. Nathan Tanne1·, to be postmaster at Lansford, in the county of James 1\f, Shepard, of Michigan, to be consul of the United Carbon and State of Pennsylvania. States at Hamilton, Ontario, vice Charles F. Macdonald, resigned. William Harrison Bradley, of Illinois, to be consul of the United States at Tunstall, England, vice Wendell C. Warner, resigned. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Charles A. McCullough, of Maine, to be consul of the United States at St. Stephen, New Brunswick, vice Edgar Whidden, [Continuation of legislative day of J'Jfonday, July 12, 1897.] resigned. The recess having expired, the House (at 12 o'clock m., Wednes­ Paul Lang, of New Hampshire, to be consul of the United States day, July 14) resumed its session. ~t Sherbrooke, Quebec, vice James R. Jackson, resigned. :MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. Charles Deal, of New York, to be consul of the United States at A message from the Senate, by Mr. PLATT, one of its clerks, St. Johns, Quebec, vice Thomas Keefe, resigned. announced that the Senate had passed with amendments the bill Delmar J. Vail, of Vermont~ to be consul of the United States at Charlottetown, Prince Edwa1·d Island, vice Dominic J. Kane, (H. R. 13) making appropriations to supply deficiencies in the resigned. appropriations for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1897, and for Edmond Z. Brodowski, of lllinois, to be consul of the United prior yea1·s, and for other purposes, in which the concurrence of States at Breslau, Germany, vice Frederick Opp, resigned. the House of Representatives was requested. Joseph G. Stephens, of Indiana, to be consul of the United States The message also announced that the Senate had passed the fol­ at Plymouth, England, vice Thomas W. Fox, resigned. This nomi­ lowing resolution: in which the concurrence of the Honse of Rep­ nation is intended to replace the one sent to the Senate June 30, resentatives was requested: Whereas the Secretary of War has heretofore reported to the Senate that 1897, and confirmed July 2, 1897, in which the name was errone he has serious doubts as to his authority to make contracts for the construc­ ously written Joseph J. Stevens, tion of a breakwater at San Pedro, CaL, under the provisions of the river and