House of Commons Work and Pensions Committee Pension, Disability and Carers Service Oral and written evidence Wednesday 17 December 2008 Mr Terry Moran, Ms Vivien Hopkins and Mr Nigel Richardson Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 17 December 2008 HC 104-i Published on 9 February 2009 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £0.00 The Work and Pensions Committee The Work and Pensions Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Department for Work and Pensions and its associated public bodies. Current membership Terry Rooney MP (Labour, Bradford North) (Chairman) Anne Begg MP (Labour, Aberdeen South) Harry Cohen MP (Labour, Leyton and Wanstead) Michael Jabez Foster MP (Labour, Hastings and Rye) Oliver Heald MP (Conservative, North East Hertfordshire) John Howell MP (Conservative, Henley) Joan Humble MP (Labour, Blackpool North and Fleetwood) Tom Levitt MP (Labour, High Peak) Greg Mulholland MP (Liberal Democrat, Leeds North West) John Penrose MP (Conservative, Weston-Super-Mare) Jenny Willott MP (Liberal Democrat, Cardiff Central) Powers The committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk. Publications The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at www.parliament.uk/workpencom. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are James Rhys (Clerk), Emma Graham (Second Clerk), Amy Sweeney and Hanna Haas (Committee Specialists), Laura Humble (Committee Media Advisor), John-Paul Flaherty (Committee Assistant), Hannah van Schijndel (Committee Secretary) and John Kittle (Senior Office Clerk). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Work and Pensions Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 5833; the Committee’s email address is [email protected] Processed: 04-02-2009 18:39:15 Page Layout: COENEW [SO] PPSysB Job: 416074 Unit: PAG1 Work and Pensions Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Work and Pensions Committee on Wednesday 17 December 2008 Members present Mr Terry Rooney, in the Chair Miss Ann Begg Mrs Joan Humble Harry Cohen Tom Levitt John Howell Greg Mulholland Witnesses: Mr Terry Moran, Chief Executive, Ms Vivien Hopkins, Chief Operating OYcer, and Mr Nigel Richardson, Customer and Partnership Director, Pension, Disability and Carers Service, gave evidence. Q1 Chairman: Good morning, everyone. Welcome Mr Moran: I should say, by way of introduction to to our evidence session for the Pension, Disability that, that we have not announced to our staV yet the and Carers Service. Welcome Mr Moran to your outcome of that. Some of the discussions that I have team. It is a while since we have seen you. You have now will be on the basis of the things we have been been promoted since then, so congratulations on looking at rather than specifically what we are doing. your new appointment. Are you now part of the The review that I think particularly colleagues may management team? be interested in is what we are doing on the Pension Mr Moran: Yes, I am, Chairman. Service side of the delivery of services. Many members will know that we have embarked on a Q2 Chairman: This was of grave concern to us last seven-year plan for transforming those services to time, I do recall. pensioners and some amazing things have been Mr Moran: I do. I think within a month of that achieved—not least being able to make claims to hearing Leigh Lewis made me a full member. benefit over the phone and sometimes getting the outcome of that there and then, in a 20-minute call. V A fantastic achievement. But one of the things we Q3 Chairman: We have an e ect, it is nice to know. V Perhaps I can kick oV. We understand that the have been seeing over the last year is that sta have merger of the two departments cost just £200,000, found it increasingly demanding to achieve having which in my experience of mergers seems incredibly full knowledge of State Pension and Pension Credit cheap. What went wrong? benefits. Therefore, if you get an inquiry over the Mr Moran: I think a lot of things went right. We did phone or you receive follow-up evidence in paper not approach this on the basis that we were going to form or, indeed, you receive a claim on paper, the go through a huge new branding exercise or role that required you to do all of that on the anything like that. We wanted to maintain the telephone and all of that with paper processing existing brands that were out there and where a lot meant that staV were struggling to get hold of the full of money is often spent, and over time to ensure that knowledge while at the same time delivering the we bring the services more eVectively together. We service. Our experience was showing that it was are doing more saving of money as a result of taking us 20 weeks to get a member of staV to a fully bringing the two organisations together than productive level and then not accurately at the levels spending money. By creating a single agency, rather we needed. We had to step back and look at what all than having two with two separate overheads, we of that meant, to understand, could we, with the think that will realise £5million in a full year, once we technologies that we have and which work great for have completed the process. I do not think anything us, deliver diVerently what we have to do on behalf has gone wrong on that. It has been on the basis that of customers. That is what the review has been we have done it in a pragmatic, sensible way. looking at. When it comes to the announcement early in the New Year, we will be confidently able to Q4 Chairman: Would you say it was a meaningful say that we are responding very much to the V exercise? concerns that sta have shared with us about Mr Moran: I do. As I hope we will come on to during allowing them to do jobs that they feel they can do the session, Chairman, we will be able to better, which is what they want. We want to continue demonstrate some of the benefits that are being to protect the advances that have been made already, made now and we hope we will continue to make like making claims over the phone eVectively and over time. quickly. Q5 Chairman: You announced a couple of months ago a review of how the service is delivered. What is Q6 Chairman: What would you say the biggest, the score? Remind me of that. How is it going? single benefit of this merger is for customers? Processed: 04-02-2009 18:39:15 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 416074 Unit: PAG1 Ev 2 Work and Pensions Committee: Evidence 17 December 2008 Mr Terry Moran, Ms Vivien Hopkins and Mr Nigel Richardson Mr Moran: We are only six/seven months into the imaginative about how we involve local new agency. First and foremost we started communities and, indeed, the friends and families of addressing the basics of delivery, so that we ensured people who may be eligible. We have identified 20 that customers who have needs that go beyond either areas across the country where we think the greatest one of the two former agencies are better joined up. unmet need exists. I will invite Nigel to say a bit more We are already seeing improvements in the work on that. that is available, so that is considerably lower than it Mr Richardson: It has become very clear that some was a year ago. We are seeing the first signs of of the traditional methods and techniques of mass accuracy in payments of Pension Credit increasing. media in terms of trying to influence some of these We are seeing, through our local service, increasing resistant groups has shown lots of diminishing numbers of claims being taken for non pensioner returns. The economic equation of the cost to benefits. For example, we are seeing Disability convert those has proved very, very diYcult. As Living Allowance and Attendance Allowance claims Terry highlighted, there are consistently numbers rise in just this year alone, forecast to be 11% higher which we run into in our day jobs, particularly in the than last year as a result of activity we are generating local service arena, which have borne out that the by looking at the customer more holistically. I think percentage of people who will turn away a benefit is those are some of the early signs of what we are in the high 20s, where often they can be entitled to it doing. Over time, we want to ensure that the service but not persuaded to take it. We are at an interesting people receive when they phone us will go beyond point in our evolution of Pension Credit. Our just the pensioner benefits and the Housing Benefits evolution is taking us to a couple of things really. and the Council Tax Benefits that we can do over the One is where we need to be much more targeted phone, but that we will also trigger entitlements to about it.