Wednesday Volume 545 9 May 2012 No. 1

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 9 May 2012

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] Chronology of The Parliamentary Debates The Parliamentary History contains all that can be collected of the Legislative History of this country from the Conquest to the close of the XVIIIth Century (1803), 36 vols. The chief sources whence these Debates are derived are the Constitutional History, 24 vols.; Sir Simonds D’Ewes’ Journal; Debates of the Commons in 1620 and 1621; Chandler and Timberland’s Debates, 22 vols.; Grey’s Debates of the Commons, from 1667 to 1694, 10 vols.; Almons Debates, 24 vols.; Debrett’s Debates, 63 vols.; The Hardwicke Papers; Debates in Parliament by Dr. Johnson, &c. &c. THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES commenced with the year 1803, and the contents are set forth in the following Chronological Table:—

HISTORY (EIGHTH PARLIAMENT) CONQUEST TO 34 GEO. II.—1066 to 1760 Vol. 16 ...... 7 GEO. IV...... 1826 Vol.1to15.1Will.Ito34Geo.II — 17 ...... 8 — ...... 1827 1066-1760 — 18 & 19...... 9 — ...... 1828 REIGN OF GEO. III.—1760 to 1820 — 20—21 ...... 10 — ...... 1829 Vol. 15 to 35. Geo. III to 40 Geo. III. — 22 to 25 ...... 11 — ...... 1830 1760—1800 Third Series PARLIAMENTS OF UNITED KINGDOM OF REIGN OF WILLIAM IV. —1830 to 1837 GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND (NINTH PARLIAMENT) (FIRST PARLIAMENT) Vol. 1 to 3...... 1 WILL. IV...... 1830-1 Vol. 35...... 41 GEO. III...... 1801 (TENTH PARLIAMENT) — 36...... 42 — ...... 1802 Vol. 4 to 8...... 2 WILL. IV...... 1831 (SECOND PARLIAMENT) — 9—14...... 3 — ...... 1832 Vol. 36...... 42 GEO. III...... 1802-3 (ELEVENTH PARLIAMENT) DEBATES Vol. 15 to 20 ...... 4 WILL. IV...... 1833 First Series — 21—25 ...... 5 — ...... 1834 (SECOND PARLIAMENT—cont.) (TWELFTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 1 & 2...... 44 GEO. III...... 1803-4 Vol. 26 to 30 ...... 6 WILL. IV...... 1835 — 3 to 5 ...... 45 — ...... 1805 — 31—35 ...... 7 — ...... 1836 — 6 & 7...... 46 — ...... 1806 — 36—38 ...... 8 — ...... 1837 (THIRD PARLIAMENT) REIGN OF VICTORIA. —1837 to 1901 Vol. 8 & 9...... 47 GEO. III...... 1806-7 (THIRTEENTH PARLIAMENT) (FOURTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 39 to 44 ...... 1 VICTORIA ...... 1838 Vol. 9 to 11 ...... 48 GEO. III...... 1807-8 — 45—50 ...... 2 — ...... 1839 — 12—14 ...... 49 — ...... 1809 — 51—55 ...... 3 — ...... 1840 — 15—17 ...... 50 — ...... 1810 — 56—58 ...... 4 — ...... (a)1841 — 18—20 ...... 51 — ...... 1810-11 (FOURTEENTH PARLIAMENT) — 21—23 ...... 52 — ...... 1812 Vol. 59 ...... 4 VICTORIA ...... (b)1841 (FIFTH PARLIAMENT) — 60 to 65 ...... 5 — ...... 1842 Vol. 24 to 26 ...... 53 GEO. III...... 1812-13 — 66—71 ...... 6 — ...... 1843 — 27 & 28...... 54 — ...... 1813-14 — 72—76 ...... 7 — ...... 1844 — 29—31 ...... 55 — ...... 1814-15 — 77—82 ...... 8 — ...... 1845 — 32—34 ...... 56 — ...... 1816 — 83—88 ...... 9 — ...... 1846 — 35 & 36...... 58 — ...... 1817 — 89—94 ...... 10 — ...... (a)1847 — 37—38 ...... 58 — ...... 1818 (FIFTEENTH PARLIAMENT) (SIXTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 95...... 10 VICTORIA ...... (b)1847 Vol. 39 & 40...... 59 GEO. III...... 1819 — 96—101 ...... 11 — ...... 1848 — 41...... 60 — ...... 1819-20 — 102—107...... 12 — ...... 1849 Second Series — 108—113...... 13 — ...... 1850 REIGN OF GEO. IV.—1820 to 1830 — 114—118...... 14 — ...... 1851 (SEVENTH PARLIAMENT) — 119—122...... 15 — ...... (a)1852 Vol. 1 to 3...... 1 GEO. IV...... 1820 (SIXTEENTH PARLIAMENT) — 4 & 5 ...... 2 — ...... 1821 Vol. 123...... 15 VICTORIA ...... (b)1852 — 6— 7...... 3 — ...... 1822 — 124 to 129...... 16 — ...... 1853 — 8— 9...... 4 — ...... 1823 — 130—135...... 17 — ...... 1854 — 10—11 ...... 5 — ...... 1824 — 136—139...... 18 — ...... 1855 — 12—13 ...... 6 — ...... 1825-6 — 140—143...... 19 — ...... 1856 — 14—15 ...... 7 — ...... 1826 — 144...... 20 — ...... (a)1857 ii CHRONOLOGY OF THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES—cont.

(SEVENTEENTH PARLIAMENT) (TWENTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 145 to 147...... 20 VICTORIA ...... (b)1857 Vol. 308 & 309 ...... 49 VICTORIA ...... (b)1886 — 148—151...... 21 — ...... 1858 — 310 to 321...... 50 — ...... 1887 — 152 & 153 ...... 22 — ...... (a)1859 — 322—332...... 51 — ...... 1888 (EIGHTEENTH PARLIAMENT) — 333—340...... 52 — ...... 1889 Vol. 154 & 155 ...... 22 VICTORIA ...... (b)1859 — 341—348...... 53 — ...... 1890 — 156 to 160...... 23 — ...... 1860 — 349—356...... 54 — ...... 1890-1 — 161—164...... 24 — ...... 1861 Fourth Series — 165—168...... 25 — ...... 1862 (TWENTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT—cont.) — 169—172...... 26 — ...... 1863 Vol. 1 to 6 ...... 55 VICTORIA ...... 1892 — 173—176...... 27 — ...... 1864 (Twenty-Fifth Parliament) — 177—180...... 28 — ...... 1865 Vol. 7 ...... 56 VICTORIA ...... 1892 (NINETEENTH PARLIAMENT) — 8 to 21 ...... 57 — ...... 1893-4 Vol. 181 to 184...... 29 VICTORIA ...... 1866 — 22—29 ...... 57 — ...... 1894 — 185—189...... 30 — ...... 1867 — 30—35 ...... 58 — ...... 1895 — 190—193...... 31 — ...... 1867-8 (TWENTY-SIXTH PARLIAMENT) (TWENTIETH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 36...... 59 VICTORIA ...... 1895 Vol. 194 to 198...... 32 VICTORIA ...... 1868-9 — 37 to 44 ...... 59 — ...... 1895-6 — 199—203...... 33 — ...... 1870 — 45—52 ...... 60 — ...... 1897 — 204—208...... 34 — ...... 1871 — 53—65 ...... 61 — ...... 1898 — 209—213...... 35 — ...... 1872 — 66—76 ...... 62 — ...... 1899 — 214—217...... 36 — ...... 1873 — 77...... 63 — ...... 1899 (TWENTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT) — 78—83 ...... 63 — ...... 1900 Vol. 218 to 221...... 37 VICTORIA ...... 1874 — 84...... 63 & 64 — ...... 1900 — 222—226...... 38 — ...... 1875 — 85—87 ...... 64 — ...... 1900 — 227—231...... 39 — ...... 1876 (TWENTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT) — 232—236...... 40 — ...... 1877 Vol. 88...... 65 VICTORIA ...... 1900 — 237—243...... 41 — ...... 1878 REIGN OF EDWARD VII.—1901 to 1910 — 242—249...... 42 — ...... 1878-9 (TWENTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT—cont.) — 250 & 251 ...... 43 — ...... (a)1880 Vol. 89 ...... 1 EDWARD VII...... 1901 (TWENTY-SECOND PARLIAMENT) — 90 to 100 ...... 1 — ...... 1901 Vol. 252 to 256...... 43 VICTORIA ...... (b)1880 — 101...... 1 & 2 — ...... 1902 — 257—265...... 44 — ...... 1881 — 102—117 ...... 2 — ...... 1902 — 266—273...... 45 — ...... (a)1882 — 118—128 ...... 3 — ...... 1903 — 274 & 275 ...... 45 — ...... (b)1882 — 129—140 ...... 4 — ...... 1904 — 276 to 283...... 46 — ...... 1883 — 141—151 ...... 5 — ...... 1905 — 284—292...... 47 — ...... 1884 (TWENTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT) — 293—301...... 48 — ...... 1884-5 Vol. 152 to 168...... 6 EDWARD VII...... 1906 (TWENTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT) — 169—182 ...... 7 — ...... 1907 Vol. 302 to 307...... 49 VICTORIA ...... 1886 — 183—199 ...... 8 — ...... 1908

Fifth Series—Official Report

Lords Debates Commons Debates (TWENTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT—cont.) (TWENTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT—cont.) Vol. 1 to 4...... 9 EDWARD VII...... 1909 Vol. 1 to 13 ...... 9 EDWARD VII...... 1909 (TWENTY-NINTH PARLIAMENT) (TWENTY-NINTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 5 & 6...... 10 EDWARD VII...... 1910 Vol. 14 to 20 ...... 10 EDWARD VII...... 1910 and1GEO.V. and1GEO.V.

REIGN OF GEORGE V.—1910 to 1936

Lords Debates Commons Debates (THIRTIETH PARLIAMENT) (THIRTIETH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 7 to 10 ...... 1 & 2 GEO. V...... 1911 Vol. 21 to 33 ...... 1 & 2 GEO. V...... 1911 — 11—13...... 2—3 — ...... 1912-13 — 34— 49 ...... 2—3 — ...... 1912 — 14...... 3—4 — ...... 1913 — 50— 57 ...... 3—4 — ...... 1913 — 15—17...... 4—5 — ...... 1914 — 58— 67 ...... 4—5 — ...... 1914 — 18—20...... 5—6 — ...... 1914-16 — 68— 79 ...... 5—6 — ...... 1914-16 — 21—23...... 6—7 — ...... 1916 — 80— 88 ...... 6—7 — ...... 1916 — 24—28...... 7—8 — ...... 1917 — 89—102...... 7—8 — ...... 1917 — 29—32...... 8—9 — ...... 1918 — 103—111...... 8—9 — ...... 1918 CHRONOLOGY OF THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES—cont. iii

(THIRTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT) (THIRTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT) Vol. 33 to 38...... 9 & 10 GEO. V...... 1919 Vol. 112 to 124.....9 & 10 GEO. V...... 1919 — 39—43...... 10—11 — ...... 1920 — 125—137 ...... 10—11 — ...... 1920 — 44—47...... 11—12 — ...... 1921 — 138—148 ...... 11—12 — ...... 1921 — 48 (2nd Session) ..12 — ...... 1921 — 149 (2nd Session).12 — ...... 1921 — 49—51...... 12—13 — ...... 1922 — 150—158 ...... 12—13 — ...... 1922 (THIRTY-SECOND PARLIAMENT) (THIRTY-SECOND PARLIAMENT) Vol. 52 (2nd Session) ..13 GEO. V...... 1922 Vol. 159 (2nd Session).13 GEO. V...... 1922 — 53—55...... 13—14 — ...... 1923 — 160—168.....13 & 14 — ...... 1923 (THIRTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT) (THIRTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT) Vol. 56 to 59...... 14 & 15 GEO. V...... 1924 Vol. 169 to 178 ...14 & 15 GEO. V...... 1924

PARLIAMENT OF UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND

(THIRTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT) (THIRTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 60 to 62...... 15 & 16 GEO. V...... 1924-25 Vol. 179 to 190 ...15 & 16 GEO. V...... 1924-25 — 63—65...... 16—17 — ...... 1926 — 191—201 ...... 16—17 — ...... 1926 — 66—69...... 17—18 — ...... 1927 — 202—212 ...... 17—18 — ...... 1927 — 70 & 71 ...... 18—19 — ...... 1928 — 213—221 ...... 18—19 — ...... 1928 — 72 to 74 ...... 19—29 — ...... 1928-29 — 222—228 ...... 19—20 — ...... 1928-29 HIRTY IFTH ARLIAMENT (T -F P ) (THIRTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT) EO Vol. 75 to 78...... 20 & 21 G . V...... 1929-30 Vol. 229 to 243 ...20 & 21 GEO. V...... 1929-30 — 79—82...... 21—22 — ...... 1930-31 — 244—258 ...... 21—22 — ...... 1930-31 (THIRTY-SIXTH PARLIAMENT) (THIRTY-SIXTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 83 to 85...... 22 & 23 GEO. V...... 1931-32 — 86—89...... 23—24 — ...... 1932-33 Vol. 259 to 271 ...22 & 23 GEO. V...... 1931-32 — 90—94...... 24—25 — ...... 1933-34 — 272—282 ...... 23—24 — ...... 1932-33 — 95—98...... 25—26 — ...... 1934-35 — 283—294 ...... 24—25 — ...... 1933-34 — 295—306 ...... 25—26 — ...... 1934-35 (THIRTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 99...... 26 GEO. V. and ...... 1935-36 (THIRTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT) EDWARD VIII. Vol. 307...... 26 GEO. V...... 1935-36

REIGN OF EDWARD VIII.—1936

Lords Debates Commons Debates (THIRTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT—cont.) (THIRTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT—cont.) Vol. 99 to 102 ...... EDWARD VIII...... 1936 Vol. 308 to 316 ...... EDWARD VIII...... 1936 — 103 ...... — ...... 1936-37 — 317 ...... — ...... 1936-37

REIGN OF GEORGE VI.—1936 to 1952

Lords Debates Commons Debates (THIRTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT—cont.) (THIRTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT—cont.) Vol. 104 to 106...... 1 GEO. VI...... 1936-37 Vol. 318 to 327...... 1 GEO. VI...... 1936-37 — 107—110 ...... 1 & 2 — ...... 1936-38 — 328—340 ...... 1 & 2 — ...... 1937-38 — 111—114...... 2—3 — ...... 1938-39 — 341—354...... 2—3 — ...... 1938-39 — 115—117...... 3—4 — ...... 1939-40 — 355—366...... 3—4 — ...... 1939-40 — 118—120...... 4—5 — ...... 1940-41 — 367—375...... 4—5 — ...... 1940-41 — 121—124...... 5—6 — ...... 1941-42 — 376—384...... 5—6 — ...... 1941-42 — 125—129...... 6—7 — ...... 1942-43 — 385—394...... 6—7 — ...... 1942-43 — 130—133...... 7—8 — ...... 1943-44 — 395—405...... 7—8 — ...... 1943-44 — 134—136...... 8—9 — ...... 1944-45 — 406—412...... 8—9 — ...... 1944-45 (THIRTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT) (THIRTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 137 to 143.....9 & 10 GEO. VI...... 1945-46 Vol. 413 to 429.....9 & 10 GEO. VI...... 1945-46 — 144—151 ...... 10—11 — ...... 1946-47 — 430—442 ...... 10—11 — ...... 1946-47 — 152—158 ...... 11—12 — ...... 1947-48 — 443—456 ...... 11—12 — ...... 1947-48 — 159—165 ...... 12—14 — ...... 1948-49 — 457—471 ...... 12—14 — ...... 1948-49 (THIRTY-NINTH PARLIAMENT) (THIRTY-NINTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 166 to 168...... 14 GEO. VI...... 1950 Vol. 472 to 479...... 14 GEO. VI...... 1950 — 169—173.....14 & 15 — ...... 1950-51 — 480—492.....14 & 15 — ...... 1950-51 (FORTIETH PARLIAMENT) (FORTIETH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 174 ...... 15 & 16 GEO. VI. and ...... 1951-52 Vol. 493 to 495 ...15 & 16 GEO. VI. and ...... 1951-52 1ELIZ. II. 1ELIZ. II. iv CHRONOLOGY OF THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES—cont.

REIGN OF ELIZABETH II.—1952 to

Lords Debates Commons Debates (FORTIETH PARLIAMENT—cont.) (FORTIETH PARLIAMENT—cont.) Vol. 174 to 178...... 1 ELIZ. II...... 1952 Vol. 495 to 506...... 1 ELIZ. II...... 1952 — 179—183 ...... 1 & 2 — ...... 1952-53 — 507—519 ...... 1 & 2 — ...... 1952-53 — 184—189...... 2—3 — ...... 1953-54 — 520—534...... 2—3 — ...... 1953-54 — 190—192...... 3—4 — ...... 1954-55 — 535—541...... 3—4 — ...... 1954-55 (FORTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT) (FORTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT) Vol. 193 to 199...... 4 & 5 ELIZ. II...... 1955-56 Vol. 542 to 559...... 4 & 5 ELIZ. II...... 1955-56 — 200—205...... 5—6 — ...... 1956-57 — 560—576...... 5—6 — ...... 1956-57 — 206—211...... 6—7 — ...... 1957-58 — 577—593...... 6—7 — ...... 1957-58 — 212—218...... 7—8 — ...... 1958-59 — 594—611...... 7—8 — ...... 1958-59 (FORTY-SECOND PARLIAMENT) (FORTY-SECOND PARLIAMENT) Vol. 612 to 628...... 8 & 9 ELIZ. II...... 1959-60 Vol. 219 to 225...... 8 & 9 ELIZ. II...... 1959-60 — 226—234...... 9—10 — ...... 1960-61 — 629—647...... 9—10 — ...... 1960-61 — 235—243 ...... 10—11 — ...... 1961-62 — 648—665 ...... 10—11 — ...... 1961-62 — 244—252 ...... 11—12 — ...... 1962-63 — 666—683 ...... 11—12 — ...... 1962-63 — 253—260 ...... 12—13 — ...... 1963-64 — 684—700 ...... 12—13 — ...... 1963-64 (FORTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT) (FORTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT) Vol. 701 to 719 ...13 & 14 ELIZ. II...... 1964-65 Vol. 261 to 269 ...13 & 14 ELIZ. II...... 1964-65 — 720—726 ...... 14—15 — ...... 1965-66 — 270—273 ...... 14—15 — ...... 1965-66 (FORTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT) (FORTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 727 to 752 ...15 & 16 ELIZ. II...... 1966-67 Vol. 274 to 285 ...15 & 16 ELIZ. II...... 1966-67 — 753—771 ...... 16—17 — ...... 1967-68 — 286—296 ...... 16—17 — ...... 1967-68 — 772—789 ...... 17—18 — ...... 1968-69 — 297—304 ...... 17—18 — ...... 1968-69 — 790—802 ...... 18—19 — ...... 1969-70 — 305—310 ...... 18—19 — ...... 1969-70 (FORTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT) (FORTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 803 to 824 ...19 & 20 ELIZ. II...... 1970-71 Vol. 311 to 324 ...19 & 20 ELIZ. II...... 1970-71 — 825—844 ...... 20—21 — ...... 1971-72 — 325—335 ...... 20—21 — ...... 1971-72 — 845—862 ...... 21—22 — ...... 1972-73 — 336—345 ...... 21—22 — ...... 1972-73 — 863—869 ...... 22—23 — ...... 1973-74 — 346—349 ...... 22—23 — ...... 1973-74 (FORTY-SIXTH PARLIAMENT) (FORTY-SIXTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 870 to 879...... 23 ELIZ. II...... 1974 Vol. 350 to 353...... 23 ELIZ. II...... 1974 (FORTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 880 to 900 ...23 & 24 ELIZ. II...... 1974-75 (FORTY-SEVENTH PARLIAMENT) — 901—920 ...... 24—25 — ...... 1975-76 Vol. 354 to 365 ...23 & 24 ELIZ. II...... 1974-75 — 366—377 ...... 24—25 — ...... 1975-76 — 921—937 ...... 25—26 — ...... 1976-77 — 378—386 ...... 25—26 — ...... 1976-77 — 938—956 ...... 26—27 — ...... 1977-78 — 387—395 ...... 26—27 — ...... 1977-78 — 957—966 ...... 27—28 — ...... 1978-79 — 396—399 ...... 27—28 — ...... 1978-79 (FORTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 967 to 993 ...28 & 29 ELIZ. II...... 1979-80 ORTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT) (F — 994—1000...29 & 30 — ...... 1980-81 Vol. 400 to 414 ...28 & 29 ELIZ. II...... 1979-80 Sixth Series — 415—424.....29 & 30 — ...... 1980-81 LIZ. II...... 1980-81 — 425—435.....30 & 31 — ...... 1981-82 Vol. 1 to 12 ...... 30 E — 13—30 ...... 30 & 31 — ...... 1981-82 — 436—442.....31 & 32 — ...... 1982-83 — 31—43 ...... 31 & 32 — ...... 1982-83 (FORTY-NINTH PARLIAMENT) (FORTY-NINTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 443 to 456 ...32 & 33 ELIZ. II...... 1983-84 Vol. 44 to 66...... 32 & 33 ELIZ. II...... 1983-84 — 457—467.....33 & 34 — ...... 1984-85 — 67—85 ...... 33 & 34 — ...... 1984-85 — 468—481.....34 & 35 — ...... 1985-86 — 86—104...... 34 & 35 — ...... 1985-86 — 482—487.....35 & 36 — ...... 1986-87 — 105—117.....35 & 36 — ...... 1986-87 (FIFTIETH PARLIAMENT) (FIFTIETH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 488 to 501 ...36 & 37 ELIZ. II...... 1987-88 Vol. 118 to 141 ...36 & 37 ELIZ. II...... 1987-88 — 502—512.....37 & 38 — ...... 1988-89 — 142—161.....37 & 38 — ...... 1988-89 — 513—522.....38 & 39 — ...... 1989-90 — 162—179.....38 & 39 — ...... 1989-90 — 523—531.....39 & 40 — ...... 1990-91 — 180—197.....39 & 40 — ...... 1990-91 — 532—536.....40 & 41 — ...... 1991-92 — 198—206.....40 & 41 — ...... 1991-92 (FIFTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT) (FIFTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT) Vol. 537 to 549 ...41 & 42 ELIZ. II...... 1992-93 Vol. 207 to 232 ...41 & 42 ELIZ. II...... 1992-93 — 550—558 ...... 42—43 — ...... 1993-94 — 233—249 ...... 42—43 — ...... 1993-94 — 559—566 ...... 43—44 — ...... 1994-95 — 250—266 ...... 43—44 — ...... 1994-95 — 567—574 ...... 44—45 — ...... 1995-96 — 267—283 ...... 44—45 — ...... 1995-96 — 575—579 ...... 45—46 — ...... 1996-97 — 284—293 ...... 45—46 — ...... 1996-97 CHRONOLOGY OF THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES—cont. v

REIGN OF ELIZABETH II.—1952 to

Lords Debates Commons Debates (FIFTY-SECOND PARLIAMENT) (FIFTY-SECOND PARLIAMENT) Vol. 580 to 594 ....46—47 ELIZ. II. ....1997-98 Vol. 294 to 320 ....46—47 ELIZ. II. ....1997-98 Vol. 595 to 606 ....47—48 ELIZ. II. ....1998-99 Vol. 321 to 338 ....47—48 ELIZ. II. ....1998-99 Vol. 607 to 619 ....48—49 ELIZ. II. 1999-2000 Vol. 339 to 358 ....48—49 ELIZ. II. 1999-2000 Vol. 620 to 625 ....49—50 ELIZ. II. 2000-2001 Vol. 359 to 369 ....49—50 ELIZ. II. 2000-2001 (FIFTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT) (FIFTY-THIRD PARLIAMENT) Vol. 626 to 640 ....50—51 ELIZ. II. 2001-2002 Vol. 370 to 393 ....50—51 ELIZ. II. 2001-2002 Vol. 641 to 654 ....51—52 ELIZ. II. 2002-2003 Vol. 394 to 414 ....51—52 ELIZ. II. 2002-2003 Vol. 655 to 666 ....52—53 ELIZ. II. 2003-2004 Vol. 415 to 427 ....52—53 ELIZ. II. 2003-2004 Vol. 667 to 671 ....53—54 ELIZ. II. 2004-2005 Vol. 428 to 433 ....53—54 ELIZ. II. 2004-2005 (FIFTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT) (FIFTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 672 to 686 ....54—55 ELIZ. II. 2005-2006 Vol. 434 to 452 ....54—55 ELIZ. II. 2005-2006 Vol. 687 to 695 ....55—56 ELIZ. II. 2006-2007 Vol. 453 to 466 ....55—56 ELIZ. II. 2006-2007 Vol. 696 to 705 ....56—57 ELIZ. II. 2007-2008 Vol. 467 to 484 ....56—57 ELIZ. II. 2007-2008 Vol. 706 to 714 ....57—58 ELIZ. II. 2008-2009 Vol. 485 to 500 ....57—58 ELIZ. II. 2008-2009 Vol. 715 to 718 ....58—59 ELIZ. II. 2009-2010 Vol. 501 to 509 ....58—59 ELIZ. II. 2009-2010 (FIFTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT) (FIFTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT) Vol. 719 to 736 ....59—61 ELIZ. II. 2010-2012 Vol. 510 to 544 ....59—61 ELIZ. II. 2010-2012

House of Commons Alphabetical List of Members [Returned at the General Election, 6 May 2010]

A Binley, Brian Arthur Roland (Northampton South) Birtwistle, Gordon (Burnley) Abbott, Diane Julie (Hackney North and Stoke Blackman, Robert John (Harrow East) Newington) Blackman-Woods, Roberta Carol (City of Durham) Abrahams, Debbie (Oldham East and Saddleworth) Blackwood, Nicola Claire (Oxford West and Abingdon) [By-election, January 2011] Blears, Rt Hon. Hazel Anne (Salford and Eccles) Adams, Gerard (Belfast West) [Resigned, January 2011] Blenkinsop, Thomas Francis (Middlesbrough South and Adams, Nigel (Selby and Ainsty) East Cleveland) Afriyie, Adam (Windsor) Blomfield, Paul (Sheffield Central) Ainsworth, Rt Hon. Robert William (Coventry North Blunkett, Rt Hon. David (Sheffield, Brightside and East) Hillsborough) Aldous, Peter (Waveney) Blunt, Crispin Jeremy Rupert (Reigate) Alexander, Daniel Grian (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch Boles, Nicholas Edward Coleridge (Grantham and and Strathspey) Stamford) Alexander, Rt Hon. Douglas Garven (Paisley and Bone, Peter William (Wellingborough) Renfrewshire South) Bottomley, Peter James (Worthing West) Alexander, Heidi (Lewisham East) Bradley, Karen Anne (Staffordshire Moorlands) Ali, Rushanara (Bethnal Green and Bow) Bradshaw, Rt Hon. Benjamin Peter James (Exeter) Allen, Graham William (Nottingham North) Brady, Graham Stuart (Altrincham and Sale West) Amess, David Anthony Andrew (Southend West) Brake, Thomas Anthony (Carshalton and Wallington) Anderson, David (Blaydon) Bray, Angie (Ealing Central and Acton) Andrew, Stuart (Pudsey) Brazier, Julian William Hendy (Canterbury) Arbuthnot, Rt Hon. James Norwich (North East Brennan, Kevin Denis (Cardiff West) Hampshire) Bridgen, Andrew James (North West Leicestershire) Ashworth, Jonathan (Leicester South) [By-election, May Brine, Stephen Charles (Winchester) 2011] Brokenshire, James Peter (Old Bexley and Sidcup) Austin, Ian Christopher (Dudley North) Brooke, Annette Lesley (Mid Dorset and North Poole) Brown, Rt Hon. James Gordon (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) B Brown, Lyn Carol (West Ham) Brown, Rt Hon. Nicholas Hugh (Newcastle upon Tyne Bacon, Richard Michael (South Norfolk) East) Bagshawe, Louise Daphne (Corby) Brown, Russell Leslie (Dumfries and Galloway) Bailey, Adrian Edward (West Bromwich West) Browne, Jeremy Richard (Taunton Deane) Bain, William Thomas (Glasgow North East) Bruce, Fiona Claire (Congleton) Baker, Norman John (Lewes) Bruce, Rt Hon. Malcolm Gray (Gordon) Baker, Steven John (Wycombe) Bryant, Christopher John (Rhondda) Baldry, Antony Brian (Banbury) Buck, Karen Patricia (Westminster North) Baldwin, Harriett Mary Morison (West Worcestershire) Buckland, Robert James (South Swindon) Balls, Rt Hon. Edward Michael (Morley and Outwood) Burden, Richard Haines (Birmingham, Northfield) Banks, Gordon Raymond (Ochil and South Perthshire) Burley, Aidan (Cannock Chase) Barclay, Stephen Paul (North East Cambridgeshire) Burnham, Rt Hon. Andrew Murray (Leigh) Barker, Gregory Leonard George (Bexhill and Battle) Burns, Conor (Bournemouth West) Baron, John Charles (Basildon and Billericay) Burns, Simon Hugh McGuigan (Chelmsford) Barron, Rt Hon. Kevin John (Rother Valley) Burrowes, David John Barrington (Enfield, Southgate) Barwell, Gavin Laurence (Croydon Central) Burstow, Paul Kenneth (Sutton and Cheam) Bayley, Hugh (York Central) Burt, Alistair James Hendrie (North East Bedfordshire) Bebb, Guto ap Owain (Aberconwy) Burt, Lorely Jane (Solihull) Beckett, Rt Hon. Margaret Mary (Derby South) Byles, Daniel Alan (North Warwickshire) Begg, Anne (Aberdeen South) Byrne, Rt Hon. Liam Dominic (Birmingham, Hodge Beith, Rt Hon. Sir Alan James (Berwick-upon-Tweed) Hill) Bell, Sir Stuart (Middlesbrough) Bellingham, Henry Campbell (North West Norfolk) Benn, Rt Hon. Hilary James (Leeds Central) Benton, Joseph Edward (Bootle) C Benyon, Richard Henry Ronald (Newbury) Bercow, Rt Hon. John Simon (Buckingham) Cable, John Vincent (Twickenham) Beresford, Sir Alexander Paul (Mole Valley) Cairns, Alun Hugh (Vale of Glamorgan) Berger, Luciana Clare (Liverpool Wavertree) Cairns, John David (Inverclyde) [Died, May 2011] Berry, Jake (Rossendale and Darwen) Cameron, Rt Hon. David William Donald (Witney) Betts, Clive James Charles (Sheffield South East) Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth) Bingham, Andrew Russell (High Peak) Campbell, Gregory Lloyd (East Londonderry) viii Alphabetical List of Members9 MAY 2012 Alphabetical List of Members

Campbell, Rt Hon. Sir Walter Menzies (North East Docherty, Thomas (Dunfermline and West Fife) Fife) Dodds, Nigel Alexander (Belfast North) Campbell, Ronald (Blyth Valley) Doherty, Pat (West Tyrone) Carmichael, Alexander Morrison (Orkney and Shetland) Donaldson, Rt Hon. Jeffrey Mark (Lagan Valley) Carmichael, William Neil (Stroud) Donohoe, Brian Harold (Central Ayrshire) Carswell, John Douglas Wilson (Clacton) Doran, Francis (Aberdeen North) Cash, William Nigel Paul (Stone) Dorrell, Rt Hon. Stephen James (Charnwood) Caton, Martin Phillip (Gower) Dorries, Nadine Vanessa (Mid Bedfordshire) Chapman, Jennifer (Darlington) Dowd, James Patrick (Lewisham West and Penge) Chishti, Atta-Ur-Rehman (Gillingham and Rainham) Doyle, Gemma (West Dunbartonshire) Chope, Christopher Robert (Christchurch) Doyle-Price, Jacqueline (Thurrock) Clappison, William James (Hertsmere) Drax, Richard—see Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax, Richard Clark, Gregory David (Tunbridge Wells) Grosvenor Clark, Katy (North Ayrshire and Arran) Dromey, Jack (Birmingham, Erdington) Clarke, Rt Hon. Kenneth Harry (Rushcliffe) Duddridge, James Philip (Rochford and Southend East) Clarke, Rt Hon. Thomas (Coatbridge, Chryston and Dugher, Michael Vincent (Barnsley East) Bellshill) Duncan, Alan James Carter (Rutland and Melton) Clegg, Rt Hon. Nicholas William Peter (Sheffield, Duncan Smith, Rt Hon. George Iain (Chingford and Hallam) Woodford Green) Clifton-Brown , Geoffrey Robert (The Cotswolds) Dunne, Philip Martin (Ludlow) Clwyd, Rt Hon. Ann (Cynon Valley) Durkan, John Mark (Foyle) Coaker, Vernon Rodney (Gedling) Coffey, Margaret Ann (Stockport) Coffey, Therese Anne (Suffolk Coastal) E Collins, Damian Noel (Folkestone and Hythe) Colvile, Oliver Newton (Plymouth, Sutton and Eagle, Angela (Wallasey) Devonport) Eagle, Maria (Garston and Halewood) Connarty, Michael (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) Edwards, David Jonathan (Carmarthen East and Cooper, Rosemary Elizabeth (West Lancashire) Dinefwr) Cooper, Rt Hon. Yvette (Normanton, Pontefract and Efford, Clive Stanley (Eltham) Castleford) Elliott, Julie (Sunderland Central) Corbyn, Jeremy Bernard (Islington North) Ellis, Michael Tyrone (Northampton North) Cox, Charles Geoffrey (Torridge and West Devon) Ellison, Jane Elizabeth (Battersea) Crabb, Stephen (Preseli Pembrokeshire) Ellman, Louise Joyce (Liverpool, Riverside) Crausby, David Anthony (Bolton North East) Ellwood, Tobias Martin (Bournemouth East) Creagh, Mary Helen (Wakefield) Elphicke, Charles Brett Anthony (Dover) Creasy, Stella Judith (Walthamstow) Engel, Natascha (North East Derbyshire) Crockart, Michael Bruce (Edinburgh West) Esterson, William Roffen (Sefton Central) Crouch, Tracey Elizabeth Anne (Chatham and Eustice, Charles George (Camborne and Redruth) Aylesford) Evans, Christopher James (Islwyn) Cruddas, Jonathon (Dagenham and Rainham) Evans, Graham Thomas (Weaver Vale) Cryer, John Robert (Leyton and Wanstead) Evans, Jonathan Peter (Cardiff North) Cunningham, Alexander (Stockton North) Evans, Nigel Martin (Ribble Valley) Cunningham, James Dolan (Coventry South) Evennett, David Anthony (Bexleyheath and Crayford) Cunningham, Thomas Anthony (Workington) Curran, Margaret Patricia (Glasgow East) F D Fabricant, Michael Louis David (Lichfield) Dakin, Nicholas (Scunthorpe) Fallon, Michael Cathel (Sevenoaks) Danczuk, Simon Christopher (Rochdale) Farrelly, Christopher Paul (Newcastle-under-Lyme) Darling, Rt Hon. Alistair Maclean (Edinburgh South Farron, Timothy James (Westmorland and Lonsdale) West) Featherstone, Lynne Choona (Hornsey and Wood Davey, Edward Jonathon (Kingston and Surbiton) Green) David, Wayne (Caerphilly) Field, Rt Hon. Frank (Birkenhead) Davidson, Ian Graham (Glasgow South West) Field, Mark Christopher (Cities of London and Davies, David Thomas Charles (Monmouth) Westminster) Davies, Edward Glyn (Montgomeryshire) Fitzpatrick, James (Poplar and Limehouse) Davies, Geraint Richard (Swansea West) Flello, Robert Charles Douglas (Stoke-on-Trent South) Davies, Philip Andrew (Shipley) Flint, Rt Hon. Caroline Louise (Don Valley) Davis, Rt Hon. David Michael (Haltemprice and Flynn, Paul Phillip (Newport West) Howden) Foster, Donald Michael Ellison (Bath) de Bois, Geoffrey Nicholas (Enfield North) Fovargue, Yvonne Helen (Makerfield) De Piero, Gloria (Ashfield) Fox, Liam (North Somerset) Denham, Rt Hon. John Yorke (Southampton, Itchen) Francis, David Hywel (Aberavon) Dinenage, Caroline Julia (Gosport) Francois, Mark Gino (Rayleigh and Wickford) Djanogly, Jonathan Simon (Huntingdon) Freeman, George (Mid Norfolk) Dobbin, James (Heywood and Middleton) Freer, Mike (Finchley and Golders Green) Dobson, Rt Hon. Frank Gordon (Holborn and Fullbrook, Lorraine (South Ribble) St Pancras) Fuller, Richard Quentin (Bedford) Alphabetical List of Members9 MAY 2012 Alphabetical List of Members ix

G Heald, Oliver (North East Hertfordshire) Healey, Rt Hon. John (Wentworth and Dearne) Gale, Roger James (North Thanet) Heath, David William St John (Somerton and Frome) Galloway, George (Bradford West) [By-election, April Heaton-Harris, Christopher (Daventry) 2012] Hemming, John Alexander Melvin (Birmingham, Gapes, Michael John (Ilford South) Yardley) Gardiner, Barry Strachan (Brent North) Henderson, Gordon (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) Garnier, Edward Henry (Harborough) Hendrick, Mark Phillip (Preston) Garnier, Mark Robert Timothy (Wyre Forest) Hendry, Charles (Wealden) Gauke, David Michael (South West Hertfordshire) Hepburn, Stephen (Jarrow) George, Andrew Henry (St Ives) Herbert, Nicholas Le Quesne (Arundel and South Gibb, Nicolas John (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) Downs) Gilbert, Stephen David John (St Austell and Newquay) Hermon, Sylvia Eileen (North Down) Gildernew, Michelle (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Heyes, David Alan (Ashton-under-Lyne) Gillan, Cheryl Elise Kendall (Chesham and Amersham) Hillier, Meg (Hackney South and Shoreditch) Gilmore, Sheila (Edinburgh East) Hilling, Julie Ann (Bolton West) Glass, Pat (North West Durham) Hinds, Damian Patrick George (East Hampshire) Glen, John Philip (Salisbury) Hoban, Mark Gerard (Fareham) Glindon, Mary Theresa (North Tyneside) Hodge, Rt Hon. Margaret Eve (Barking) Godsiff, Roger Duncan (Birmingham, Hall Green) Hodgson, Sharon (Washington and Sunderland West) Goggins, Rt Hon. Paul Gerard (Wythenshawe and Sale Hoey, Catharine Letitia (Vauxhall) East) Hollingbery, George Michael Edward (Meon Valley) Goldsmith, Frank Zacharias Robin (Richmond Park) Hollobone, Philip Thomas (Kettering) Goodman, Helen Catherine (Bishop Auckland) Holloway, Adam James Harold (Gravesham) Goodwill, Robert (Scarborough and Whitby) Hood, James (Lanark and Hamilton East) Gove, Michael Andrew (Surrey Heath) Hopkins, Kelvin Peter (Luton North) Graham, Richard (Gloucester) Hopkins, Kristan Frederick (Keighley) Grant, Helen (Maidstone and the Weald) Horwood, Martin Charles (Cheltenham) Gray, James Whiteside (North Wiltshire) Hosie, Stewart (Dundee East) Grayling, Christopher Stephen (Epsom and Ewell) Howarth, Rt Hon. George Edward (Knowsley) Greatrex, Thomas James (Rutherglen and Hamilton Howarth, James Gerald Douglas (Aldershot) West) Howell, John Michael (Henley) Green, Damian Howard (Ashford) Hoyle, Lindsay Harvey (Chorley) Green, Kate (Stretford and Urmston) Hughes, Simon Henry Ward (Bermondsey and Old Greening, Justine (Putney) Southwark) Greenwood, Lilian Rachel (Nottingham South) Huhne, Christopher Murray Paul (Eastleigh) Grieve, Dominic Charles Roberts (Beaconsfield) Hunt, Jeremy Richard Streynsham (South West Surrey) Griffith, Nia Rhiannon (Llanelli) Hunt, Tristram Julian William (Stoke on Trent Central) Griffiths, Andrew James (Burton) Hunter, Mark James (Cheadle) Gummer, Benedict Michael (Ipswich) Huppert, Julian Leon (Cambridge) Gwynne, Andrew John (Denton and Reddish) Hurd, Nicholas Richard (Ruislip, Northwood and Gyimah, Samuel Phillip (East Surrey) Pinner)

H I Illsley, Eric Evelyn (Barnsley Central) [Resigned, Hague, Rt Hon. William Jefferson (Richmond (Yorks)) February 2011] Hain, Rt Hon. Peter Gerald (Neath) Irranca-Davies, Ifor Huw (Ogmore) Halfon, Robert Henry (Harlow) Hames, Duncan John (Chippenham) Hamilton, David (Midlothian) J Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds North East) Hammond, Philip (Runnymede and Weybridge) Jackson, Glenda May (Hampstead and Kilburn) Hammond, Stephen William (Wimbledon) Jackson, Stewart James (Peterborough) Hancock, Matthew (West Suffolk) James, Margot (Stourbridge) Hancock, Michael Thomas (Portsmouth South) James, Siân Catherine (Swansea East) Hands, Gregory William (Chelsea and Fulham) Jamieson, Catherine Mary (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) Hanson, Rt Hon. David George (Delyn) Jarvis, Dan (Barnsley Central) [By-election, March Harman, Rt Hon. Harriet (Camberwell and Peckham) 2011] Harper, Mark James (Forest of Dean) Javid, Sajid (Bromsgrove) Harrington, Richard (Watford) Jenkin, Bernard Christison (Harwich and North Essex) Harris, Rebecca Elizabeth (Castle Point) Johnson, Rt Hon. Alan Arthur (Kingston upon Hull Harris, Tom (Glasgow South) West and Hessle) Hart, Simon Anthony (Carmarthen West and South Johnson, Diana Ruth (Kingston upon Hull North) Pembrokeshire) Johnson, Gareth Alan (Dartford) Harvey, Nicholas Barton (North Devon) Johnson, Joseph Edmund (Orpington) Haselhurst, Rt Hon. Sir Alan Gordon Barraclough Jones, Andrew Hanson (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Saffron Walden) Jones, David Ian (Clwyd West) Havard, David Stewart (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) Jones, Graham Peter (Hyndburn) Hayes, John Henry (South Holland and The Deepings) Jones, Helen Mary (Warrington North) x Alphabetical List of Members9 MAY 2012 Alphabetical List of Members

Jones, Kevan David (North Durham) Maskey, Paul (Belfast, West) [By-election, June 2011] Jones, Marcus Charles (Nuneaton) McCabe, Stephen James (Birmingham, Selly Oak) Jones, Susan Elan (Clwyd South) McCann, Michael (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Jowell, Rt Hon. Tessa Jane Helen Douglas (Dulwich and Lesmahagow) West Norwood) McCarthy, Kerry Gillian (Bristol East) Joyce, Eric (Falkirk) McCartney, Jason Alexander (Colne Valley) McCartney, Karl Ian (Lincoln) McClymont, Gregg (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and K Kirkintilloch East) McCrea, Robert Thomas William (South Antrim) Kaufman, Rt Hon. Sir Gerald Bernard (Manchester, McDonagh, Siobhain Ann (Mitcham and Morden) Gorton) McDonnell, Alasdair (Belfast South) Kawczynski, Daniel Robert (Shrewsbury and Atcham) McDonnell, John Martin (Hayes and Harlington) Keeley, Barbara Mary (Worsley and Eccles South) McFadden, Rt Hon. Patrick Bosco (Wolverhampton Keen, Alan (Feltham and Heston) [Died, November South East) 2011] McGovern, Alison (Wirral South) Kelly, Chris (Dudley South) McGovern, James (Dundee West) Kendall, Elizabeth Louise (Leicester West) McGuinness, Martin (Mid Ulster) Kennedy, Rt Hon. Charles Peter (Ross, Skye and McGuire, Rt Hon. Anne Catherine (Stirling) Lochaber) McKechin, Ann (Glasgow North) Khan, Rt Hon. Sadiq Aman (Tooting) McKenzie, Iain (Inverclyde) [By-election, June 2011] Kirby, Simon Gerard (Brighton, Kemptown) McKinnell, Catherine (Newcastle upon Tyne North) Knight, Rt Hon. Gregory (East Yorkshire) Macleod, Mary (Brentford and Isleworth) Kwarteng, Kwasi Alfred Addo (Spelthorne) McLoughlin, Rt Hon. Patrick Allen (Derbyshire Dales) MacNeil, Angus Brendan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) McPartland, Stephen Anthony (Stevenage) L MacShane, Rt Hon. Denis (Rotherham) Mactaggart, Fiona Margaret (Slough) Laing, Eleanor Fulton (Epping Forest) McVey, Esther Louise (Wirral West) Lamb, Norman Peter (North Norfolk) Mahmood, Khalid (Birmingham, Perry Barr) Lammy, Rt Hon. David Lindon (Tottenham) Mahmood, Shabana (Birmingham, Ladywood) Lancaster, John Mark (Milton Keynes North) Main, Anne Margaret (St Albans) Lansley, Andrew David (South Cambridgeshire) Mann, John (Bassetlaw) Latham, Pauline Elizabeth (Mid Derbyshire) Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool South) Lavery, Ian (Wansbeck) Maude, Rt Hon. Francis Anthony Aylmer (Horsham) Laws, David Anthony (Yeovil) May, Rt Hon. Theresa Mary (Maidenhead) Lazarowicz, Marek Jerzy (Edinburgh North and Leith) Maynard, Paul Christopher (Blackpool North and Leadsom, Andrea Jacqueline (South Northamptonshire) Cleveleys) Lee, Jessica Katherine (Erewash) Meacher, Rt Hon. Michael Hugh (Oldham West and Lee, Phillip James (Bracknell) Royton) Leech, John (Manchester, Withington) Meale, Joseph Alan (Mansfield) Lefroy, Jeremy John Elton (Stafford) Mearns, Ian (Gateshead) Leigh, Edward Julian Egerton (Gainsborough) Menzies, Mark Andrew (Fylde) Leslie, Charlotte Ann (Bristol North West) Mercer, Patrick John (Newark) Leslie, Christopher Michael (Nottingham East) Metcalfe, Stephen James (South Basildon and East Letwin, Rt Hon. Oliver (West Dorset) Thurrock) Lewis, Brandon Kenneth (Great Yarmouth) Michael, Rt Hon. Alun Edward (Cardiff South and Lewis, Ivan (Bury South) Penarth) Lewis, Julian Murray (New Forest East) Miliband, Rt Hon. David Wright (South Shields) Liddell-Grainger, Ian Richard (Bridgwater and West Miliband, Rt Hon. Edward Samuel (Doncaster North) Somerset) Miller, Andrew Peter (Ellesmere Port and Neston) Lidington, David Roy (Aylesbury) Miller, Maria Frances Lewis (Basingstoke) Lilley, Rt Hon. Peter Bruce (Hitchin and Harpenden) Mills, Nigel John (Amber Valley) Lloyd, Anthony Joseph (Manchester Central) Milton, Anne Frances (Guildford) Lloyd, Stephen Anthony Christopher (Eastbourne) Mitchell, Andrew John Bower (Sutton Coldfield) Llwyd, Elfyn (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) Mitchell, Austin Vernon (Great Grimsby) Long, Naomi Rachel (Belfast East) Moon, Madeleine (Bridgend) Lopresti, Giacomo (Filton and Bradley Stoke) Moore, Michael Kevin (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Lord, Jonathan George Caladine (Woking) Selkirk) Loughton, Timothy Paul (East Worthing and Shoreham) Mordaunt, Penelope Mary (Portsmouth North) Love, Andrew McCulloch (Edmonton) Morden, Jessica Elizabeth (Newport East) Lucas, Caroline (Brighton, Pavilion) Lucas, Ian Colin (Wrexham) Morgan, Nicola Ann (Loughborough) Luff, Peter James (Mid Worcestershire) Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Lumley, Karen Elizabeth (Redditch) Morris, Anne Marie (Newton Abbot) Morris, David (Morecambe and Lunesdale) Morris, Grahame Mark (Easington) M Morris, James George (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) Mosley, Stephen James (City of Chester) Malhotra, Seema (Feltham and Heston) [By-election, Mowat, David John (Warrington South) December 2011] Mudie, George Edward (Leeds East) Alphabetical List of Members9 MAY 2012 Alphabetical List of Members xi

Mulholland, Gregory Thomas (Leeds North West) Q Mundell, David Gordon (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) Qureshi, Yasmin (Bolton South East) Munn, Margaret Patricia (Sheffield, Heeley) Munt, Tessa Jane (Wells) Murphy, Conor Terence (Newry and Armagh) R Murphy, Rt Hon. James Francis (East Renfrewshire) Murphy, Rt Hon. Paul Peter (Torfaen) Raab, Dominic Rennie (Esher and Walton) Murray, Ian (Edinburgh South) Randall, Alexander John (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) Murray, Sheryll (South East Cornwall) Raynsford, Rt Hon. Wyvill Richard Nicolls (Greenwich Murrison, Andrew William (South West Wiltshire) and Woolwich) Reckless, Mark John (Rochester and Strood) Redwood, Rt Hon. John Alan (Wokingham) N Reed, Jamieson Ronald (Copeland) Rees-Mogg, Jacob William (North East Somerset) Nandy, Lisa Eva (Wigan) Reevell, Simon Justin (Dewsbury) Nash, Pamela (Airdrie and Shotts) Reeves, Rachel Jane (Leeds West) Neill, Robert James MacGillivray (Bromley and Reid, Alan (Argyll and Bute) Chiselhurst) Reynolds, Emma Elizabeth (Wolverhampton North Newmark, Brooks Philip Victor (Braintree) East) Newton, Sarah Louise (Truro and Falmouth) Reynolds, Jonathan Neil (Stalybridge and Hyde) Nokes, Caroline Fiona Ellen (Romsey and Southampton Rifkind, Rt Hon. Sir Malcolm Leslie (Kensington) North) Riordan, Linda June (Halifax) Norman, Alexander Jesse (Hereford and South Ritchie, Margaret (South Down) Herefordshire) Robathan, Andrew Robert George (South Leicestershire) Nuttall, David John (Bury North) Robertson, Angus Struan Carolus (Moray) Robertson, Hugh Michael (Faversham and Mid Kent) O Robertson, John Webster (Glasgow North West) Robertson, Laurence Anthony (Tewkesbury) Robinson, Geoffrey (Coventry North West) O’Brien, Stephen Rothwell (Eddisbury) Rogerson, Daniel John (North Cornwall) O’Donnell, Fiona (East Lothian) Rosindell, Andrew Richard (Romford) Offord, Matthew James (Hendon) Rotheram, Steven Philip (Liverpool Walton) Ollerenshaw, Eric (Lancaster and Fleetwood) Roy, Frank (Motherwell and Wishaw) Onwurah, Chinyelu Susan (Newcastle upon Tyne Roy, Lindsay Allan (Glenrothes) Central) Ruane, Christopher Shaun (Vale of Clwyd) Opperman, Guy (Hexham) Rudd, Amber (Hastings and Rye) Osborne, George Gideon Oliver (Tatton) Ruddock, Joan Mary (Lewisham, Deptford) Osborne, Sandra Currie (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) Ruffley, David Laurie (Bury St Edmunds) Ottaway, Richard Geoffrey James (Croydon South) Russell, Robert Edward (Colchester) Owen, Albert (Ynys Môn) Rutley, David Henry (Macclesfield) P S Paice, James Edward Thornton (South East Cambridgeshire) Sanders, Adrian Mark (Torbay) Paisley, Ian Richard Kyle (North Antrim) Sandys, Laura Jane (South Thanet) Parish, Neil Quentin Gordon (Tiverton and Honiton) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow Central) Patel, Priti (Witham) Scott, Lee (Ilford North) Paterson, Owen William (North Shropshire) Seabeck, Alison Jane (Plymouth, Moor View) Pawsey, Mark Julian Francis (Rugby) Selous, Andrew Edmund Armstrong (South West Pearce, Teresa (Erith and Thamesmead) Bedfordshire) Penning, Michael Alan (Hemel Hempstead) Shannon, Richard James (Strangford) Penrose, John David (Weston-Super-Mare) Shapps, Grant V (Welwyn Hatfield) Percy, Andrew (Brigg and Goole) Sharma, Alok (Reading West) Perkins, Matthew Toby (Chesterfield) Sharma, Virendra Kumar (Ealing, Southall) Perry, Claire Louise (Devizes) Sheerman, Barry John (Huddersfield) Phillips, Stephen James (Sleaford and North Hykeham) Shelbrooke, Alec (Elmet and Rothwell) Phillipson, Bridget Maeve (Houghton and Sunderland Shepherd, Richard Charles Scrimgeour South) (Aldridge-Brownhills) Pickles, Eric Jack (Brentwood and Ongar) Sheridan, James (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) Pincher, Christopher (Tamworth) Shuker, Gavin (Luton South) Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax, Richard Grosvenor (South Simmonds, Mark Jonathan Mortlock (Boston and Dorset) Skegness) Poulter, Daniel Leonard James (Central Suffolk and Simpson, Keith Robert (Broadland) North Ipswich) Simpson, Thomas David (Upper Bann) Pound, Stephen Pelham (Ealing North) Singh, Marsha (Bradford West) [Resigned, March 2012] Primarolo, Rt Hon. Dawn (Bristol South) Skidmore, Christopher James (Kingswood) Prisk, Mark Michael (Hertford and Stortford) Skinner, Dennis Edward (Bolsover) Pritchard, Mark Andrew (The Wrekin) Slaughter, Andrew Francis (Hammersmith) Pugh, John David (Southport) Smith, Rt Hon. Andrew David (Oxford East) xii Alphabetical List of Members9 MAY 2012 Alphabetical List of Members

Smith, Angela Christine (Penistone and Stocksbridge) Vaz, Rt Hon. Keith Anthony (Leicester East) Smith, Chloe Rebecca (Norwich North) Vaz, Valerie (Walsall South) Smith, Henry Edward Millar (Crawley) Vickers, Martin John (Cleethorpes) Smith, Julian Richard (Skipton and Ripon) Villiers, Theresa Anne (Chipping Barnet) Smith, Nicholas Desmond John (Blaenau Gwent) Smith, Owen (Pontypridd) Smith, Sir Robert Hill (West Aberdeenshire and W Kincardine) Soames, Arthur Nicholas Winston (Mid Sussex) Walker, Charles Ashley Rupert (Broxbourne) Soubry, Anna Mary (Broxtowe) Walker, Robin Caspar (Worcester) Soulsby, Sir Peter Alfred (Leicester South) [Resigned, Wallace, Robert Ben Lobban (Wyre and Preston North) April 2011] Walley, Joan Lorraine (Stoke-on-Trent North) Spellar, Rt Hon. John Francis (Warley) Walter, Robert John (North Dorset) Spelman, Caroline Alice (Meriden) Ward, David (Bradford East) Spencer, Mark Steven (Sherwood) Watkinson, Angela Eileen (Hornchurch and Upminster) Stanley, Rt Hon. Sir John Paul (Tonbridge and Malling) Watson, Thomas Anthony (West Bromwich East) Stephenson, Andrew (Pendle) Watts, David Leonard (St Helens North) Stevenson, Andrew John (Carlisle) Weatherley, Michael Richard (Hove) Stewart, Iain Aitken (Milton Keynes South) Webb, Steven John (Thornbury and Yate) Stewart, Robert Alexander (Beckenham) Weir, Michael Fraser (Angus) Stewart, Rory (Penrith and The Border) Wharton, James Stephen (Stockton South) Straw, Rt Hon. John Whitaker (Blackburn) Wheeler, Heather Kay (South Derbyshire) Streeter, Gary Nicholas (South West Devon) White, Christopher (Warwick and Leamington) Stride, Melvyn John (Central Devon) Whiteford, Eilidh (Banff and Buchan) Stringer, Graham Eric (Blackley and Broughton) Whitehead, Alan Patrick Vincent (Southampton, Test) Stuart, Gisela Gschaider (Birmingham, Edgbaston) Whittaker, Craig (Calder Valley) Stuart, Graham Charles (Beverley and Holderness) Whittingdale, John Flasby Lawrance (Maldon) Stunell, Robert Andrew (Hazel Grove) Wicks, Rt Hon. Malcolm Hunt (Croydon North) Sturdy, Julian Charles (York Outer) Wiggin, William David (North Herefordshire) Sutcliffe, Gerard (Bradford South) Willetts, David Lindsay (Havant) Swales, Ian Cameron (Redcar) Williams, Hywel (Arfon) Swayne, Desmond Angus (New Forest West) Williams, Mark Fraser (Ceredigion) Swinson, Jo (East Dunbartonshire) Williams, Roger Hugh (Brecon and Radnorshire) Swire, Hugo George William (East Devon) Williams, Stephen Roy (Bristol West) Syms, Robert Andrew Raymond (Poole) Williamson, Chris (Derby North) Williamson, Gavin Alexander (South Staffordshire) T Willott, Jennifer Nancy (Cardiff Central) Wilson, Philip (Sedgefield) Wilson, Robert (Reading East) Tami, Mark Richard (Alyn and Deeside) Wilson, Samuel (East Antrim) Tapsell, Sir Peter Hannay Bailey (Louth and Horncastle) Winnick, David Julian (Walsall North) Teather, Sarah Louise (Brent Central) Winterton, Rt Hon. Rosalie (Doncaster Central) Thomas, Gareth Richard (Harrow West) Wishart, Peter (Perth and North Perthshire) Thornberry, Emily (Islington South and Finsbury) Wollaston, Sarah James (Totnes) Thurso, John Archibald (Caithness, Sutherland and Wood, Mike (Batley and Spen) Easter Ross) Woodcock, John Zak (Barrow and Furness) Timms, Rt Hon. Stephen Creswell (East Ham) Woodward, Rt Hon. Shaun Anthony (St Helens South Timpson, Anthony Edward (Crewe and Nantwich) and Whiston) Tomlinson, Justin Paul (North Swindon) Tredinnick, David Arthur Stephen (Bosworth) Woolas, Phillip James (Oldham East and Saddleworth) Trickett, Jon Hedley (Hemsworth) [Declared not duly elected by Election Court, Truss, Elizabeth Mary (South West Norfolk) December 2010] Turner, Andrew John (Isle of Wight) Wright, David (Telford) Turner, Karl (Kingston upon Hull East) Wright, Iain David (Hartlepool) Twigg, John Derek (Halton) Wright, Jeremy Paul (Kenilworth and Southam) Twigg, Stephen (Liverpool West Derby) Wright, Simon James (Norwich South) Tyrie, Andrew Guy (Chichester) Y U Yeo, Timothy Stephen Kenneth (South Suffolk) Umunna, Chuka Harrison (Streatham) Young, Rt Hon. Sir George Samuel Knatchbull (North Uppal, Paul Singh (Wolverhampton South West) West Hampshire) V Z Vaizey, Edward Henry Butler (Wantage) Vara, Shailesh Lakhman (North West Cambridgeshire) Zahawi, Nadhim (Stratford-on-Avon) HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT

MEMBERS OF THE CABINET

(FORMED BY THE RT HON.DAVID CAMERON,MP,MAY 2010)

DEPARTMENTS OF STATE AND MINISTERS PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE—The Rt Hon. David Cameron, MP DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL—The Rt Hon. Nick Clegg, MP FIRST SECRETARY OF STATE AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS—The Rt Hon. William Hague, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. George Osborne, MP LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR JUSTICE—The Rt Hon. Kenneth Clarke, QC, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Theresa May, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE—The Rt Hon. Philip Hammond, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS,INNOVATION AND SKILLS—The Rt Hon. Vince Cable, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WORK AND PENSIONS—The Rt Hon. Iain Duncan Smith, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—The Rt Hon. Edward Davey, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HEALTH—The Rt Hon. Andrew Lansley, CBE, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EDUCATION—The Rt Hon. Michael Gove, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT—The Rt Hon. Eric Pickles, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR TRANSPORT—The Rt Hon. Justine Greening, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT,FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS—The Rt Hon. Caroline Spelman, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—The Rt Hon. Andrew Mitchell, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR NORTHERN IRELAND—The Rt Hon. Owen Paterson, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND—The Rt Hon. Michael Moore, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WALES—The Rt Hon. Cheryl Gillan, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CULTURE,OLYMPICS,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt Hon. Jeremy Hunt, MP CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY—The Rt Hon. Danny Alexander, MP LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER—The Rt Hon. Lord Strathclyde MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO—The Rt Hon. Baroness Warsi

DEPARTMENTS OF STATE AND MINISTERS Business, Innovation and Skills— SECRETARY OF STATE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE—The Rt Hon. Vince Cable, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. David Willetts, MP (Minister for Universities and Science) John Hayes, MP (Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning) § Mark Prisk, MP The Rt Hon. Greg Clark, MP § Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint (Minister for Trade and Investment) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Norman Lamb, MP Edward Vaizey, MP § Baroness Wilcox Cabinet Office— MINISTER FOR THE CABINET OFFICE AND PAYMASTER GENERAL—The Rt Hon. Francis Maude, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Oliver Letwin, MP PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES— Mark Harper, MP Nick Hurd, MP Communities and Local Government— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Eric Pickles, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Greg Clark, MP § The Rt Hon. Grant Shapps, MP (Minister for Housing and Local Government) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Andrew Stunell, OBE, MP Robert Neill, MP Baroness Hanham, CBE ii HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

Culture, Media and Sport— SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CULTURE,OLYMPICS,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt Hon. Jeremy Hunt, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— John Penrose, MP Hugh Robertson, MP (Minister for Sport and the Olympics) Edward Vaizey, MP § Defence— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Philip Hammond, MP MINISTER OF STATE—Nick Harvey, MP (Minister for the Armed Forces) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Gerald Howarth, MP The Rt Hon. Andrew Robathan, MP Peter Luff, MP Lord Astor of Hever, DL Duchy of Lancaster— LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER—The Rt Hon. Lord Strathclyde Education— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Michael Gove, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Sarah Teather, MP Nick Gibb, MP John Hayes, MP (Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Tim Loughton, MP Lord Hill of Oareford Energy and Climate Change— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Edward Davey, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Charles Hendry, MP Gregory Barker, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Lord Marland Environment, Food and Rural Affairs— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Caroline Spelman, MP MINISTER OF STATE— The Rt Hon. James Paice, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Richard Benyon, MP Lord Taylor of Holbeach, CBE Foreign and Commonwealth Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. William Hague, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Jeremy Browne, MP The Rt Hon. David Lidington, MP (Minister for Europe) The Rt Hon. Lord Howell of Guildford PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Henry Bellingham, MP Alistair Burt, MP Government Equalities Office— MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Theresa May, MP § MINISTER FOR EQUALITIES—Lynne Featherstone, MP § Health— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Andrew Lansley, CBE, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Paul Burstow, MP Simon Burns, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Anne Milton, MP Earl Howe Home Office— SECRETARY OF STATE AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Theresa May, MP § MINISTERS OF STATE— Damian Green, MP (Minister for Immigration) The Rt Hon. Nick Herbert, MP (Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice) § Lord Henley (Minister for Crime Prevention and Antisocial Behaviour Reduction) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Lynne Featherstone, MP (Minister for Equalities) § James Brokenshire, MP HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont. iii

International Development— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Andrew Mitchell, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Alan Duncan, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Stephen O’Brien, MP Justice— LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Kenneth Clarke, QC, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Lord McNally The Rt Hon. Nick Herbert, MP (Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Crispin Blunt, MP Jonathan Djanogly, MP Law Officers— ATTORNEY-GENERAL—The Rt Hon. Dominic Grieve, QC, MP SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Edward Garnier, QC, MP ADVOCATE-GENERAL FOR SCOTLAND—The Rt Hon. Lord Wallace of Tankerness, QC Leader of the House of Commons— LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND LORD PRIVY SEAL—The Rt Hon. Sir George Young, MP PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—David Heath, CBE, MP Northern Ireland— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Owen Paterson, MP MINISTER OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Hugo Swire, MP Privy Council Office— DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL—The Rt Hon. Nick Clegg, MP Scotland Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Michael Moore, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. David Mundell, MP Transport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Justine Greening, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Theresa Villiers, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Norman Baker, MP Mike Penning, MP Treasury— PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE—The Rt Hon. David Cameron, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. George Osborne, MP CHIEF SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. Danny Alexander, MP FINANCIAL SECRETARY—Mark Hoban, MP EXCHEQUER SECRETARY—David Gauke, MP ECONOMIC SECRETARY—Chloe Smith, MP COMMERCIAL SECRETARY—Lord Sassoon PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. Patrick McLoughlin, MP LORDS COMMISSIONERS— Michael Fabricant, MP Angela Watkinson, MP Jeremy Wright, MP Brooks Newmark, MP James Duddridge, MP ASSISTANT WHIPS— Philip Dunne, MP Stephen Crabb, MP Robert Goodwill, MP Shailesh Vara, MP Bill Wiggin, MP Mark Hunter, MP Greg Hands, MP Jenny Willott, MP iv HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

Wales Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Cheryl Gillan, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—David Jones, MP Work and Pensions— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Iain Duncan Smith, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Chris Grayling, MP Steve Webb, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Maria Miller, MP Lord Freud Her Majesty’s Household— LORD CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt Hon. Earl Peel, GCVO, DL LORD STEWARD—The Earl of Dalhousie MASTER OF THE HORSE—Lord Vestey, KCVO TREASURER—The Rt Hon. John Randall, MP COMPTROLLER—The Rt Hon. Alistair Carmichael, MP VICE-CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt Hon. Mark Francois, MP CAPTAIN OF THE HONOURABLE CORPS OF GENTLEMEN-AT-ARMS—The Rt Hon. Baroness Anelay of St Johns, DBE CAPTAIN OF THE QUEEN’S BODYGUARD OF THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD—Lord Newby, OBE BARONESSES IN WAITING—Baroness Garden of Frognal, Baroness Northover, Baroness Rawlings, Baroness Stowell, Baroness Verma LORDS IN WAITING—Earl Attlee, Lord De Mauley, TD, Lord Wallace of Saltaire § Members of the Government listed under more than one Department

SECOND CHURCH ESTATES COMMISSIONER, REPRESENTING CHURCH COMMISSIONERS—Tony Baldry, MP HOUSE OF COMMONS THE SPEAKER—The Rt Hon. John Bercow, MP

CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Lindsay Hoyle, MP FIRST DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Nigel Evans, MP SECOND DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—The Rt Hon. Dawn Primarolo, MP

PANEL OF CHAIRS Mr David Amess, MP, Hugh Bayley, MP, Mr Joe Benton, MP, Mr Clive Betts, MP, Mr Peter Bone, MP, Mr Graham Brady, MP, Annette Brooke, MP, Martin Caton, MP, Mr Christopher Chope, MP, Katy Clark, MP, Mr David Crausby, MP, Philip Davies, MP, Jim Dobbin, MP, Nadine Dorries, MP, Sir Roger Gale, MP, Mr James Gray, MP, Mr Mike Hancock, MP, Mr Dai Havard, MP, Mr Philip Hollobone, MP, Mr Jim Hood, MP, The Rt Hon. George Howarth, MP, Mr Edward Leigh, MP, Dr William McCrea, MP, Miss Anne McIntosh, MP, Mrs Anne Main, MP, Sir Alan Meale, MP, Sandra Osborne, MP, Albert Owen, MP, Mrs Linda Riordan, MP, John Robertson, MP, Andrew Rosindell, MP, Mr Lee Scott, MP, Jim Sheridan, MP, Mr Gary Streeter, MP, Mr Andrew Turner, MP, Mr Charles Walker, MP, Mr Mike Weir, MP, Hywel Williams, MP SECRETARY—Simon Patrick

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION The Rt Hon. The Speaker (Chairman), Sir Paul Beresford, MP, Mr Frank Doran, MP, Ms Angela Eagle, MP, MP, John Thurso, MP, The Rt Hon. Sir George Young, MP SECRETARY OF THE COMMISSION—Robert Twigger ASSISTANT SECRETARY—Joanna Dodd

ADMINISTRATION ESTIMATE AUDIT COMMITTEE Alex Jablonowski (Chairman), Ms Angela Eagle, MP, The Rt Hon. Sir Alan Haselhurst, MP, John Thurso, MP, Stephen Brooker, Mark Clarke SECRETARY OF THE AUDIT COMMITTEE—Gosia McBride

CLERK OF THE HOUSE AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE—Robert Rogers PRIVATE SECRETARY—Gosia McBride PERSONAL SECRETARY—Caroline Nicholls

LIAISON COMMITTEE The Rt Hon. Sir Alan Beith, MP (Chair), Mr Graham Allen, MP, The Rt Hon. James Arbuthnot, MP, Mr Adrian Bailey, MP, The Rt Hon. Kevin Barron, MP, Dame Anne Begg, MP, Mr Clive Betts, MP, The Rt Hon. Malcolm Bruce, MP, Mr William Cash, MP, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, MP, Mr Ian Davidson, MP, DavidTCDavies, MP, The Rt Hon. Stephen Dorrell, MP, Mrs Louise Ellman, MP, Natascha Engel, MP, Dr Hywel Francis, MP, The Rt Hon. Sir Alan Haselhurst, MP, The Rt Hon. Margaret Hodge, MP, Mr Bernard Jenkin, MP, The Rt Hon. Greg Knight, MP, Miss Anne McIntosh, MP, Andrew Miller, MP, Mr George Mudie, MP, Richard Ottaway, MP, Mr Laurence Robertson, MP, Mr Graham Stuart, MP, Mr Robert Syms, MP, John Thurso, MP, Mr Andrew Tyrie, MP, The Rt Hon. Keith Vaz, MP, Joan Walley, MP, Mr John Whittingdale, MP, Mr Tim Yeo, MP CLERKS—Andrew Kennon, Philippa Helme

MANAGEMENT BOARD Robert Rogers (Clerk of the House and Chief Executive), David Natzler (Clerk Assistant and Director General, Chamber and Committee Services), John Pullinger (Director General, Information Services), Andrew Walker (Director General, HR and Change), John Borley, CB (Director General, Facilities), Myfanwy Barrett (Director of Finance), Joan Miller (Director of Parliamentary ICT) (External Member), Alex Jablonowski (External Member) SECRETARY OF THE MANAGEMENT BOARD—Matthew Hamlyn OFFICE OF THE SPEAKER SPEAKER’S SECRETARY—Peter Barratt ASSISTANT SECRETARY TO THE SPEAKER—Ian Davis MBE TRAINBEARER—Jim Davey DIARY SECRETARY—Briony Potts SPEAKER’S COUNSEL—Michael Carpenter SPEAKER’S CHAPLAIN—Rev. Rose Hudson-Wilkin vi HOUSE OF COMMONS—cont.

PARLIAMENTARY COMMISSIONER FOR STANDARDS

PARLIAMENTARY COMMISSIONER FOR STANDARDS—John Lyon, CB

REGISTRAR OF MEMBERS’FINANCIAL INTERESTS—Heather Wood

PARLIAMENTARY SECURITY CO-ORDINATOR PARLIAMENTARY SECURITY DIRECTOR—Peter Mason ASSISTANT TO PARLIAMENTARY SECURITY DIRECTOR—Emily Baldock PRIVATE SECRETARY—Leonora Chiddicks

OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS SECRETARY TO THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Sara Howe

OFFICE OF THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE HEAD OF OFFICE—Matthew Hamlyn CORPORATE RISK MANAGEMENT FACILITATOR—Rachel Harrison HEAD OF CENTRAL COMMUNICATIONS—Marianne Cwynarski HEAD OF INTERNAL AUDIT—Paul Dillon-Robinson HEAD OF PARLIAMENTARY PROGRAMME AND PROJECT ASSURANCE— Jane Rumsam STRATEGY,PLANNING AND PERFORMANCE MANAGER—Jane Hough

DEPARTMENT OF CHAMBER AND COMMITTEE SERVICES

CLERK ASSISTANT’S DIRECTORATE CLERK ASSISTANT AND DIRECTOR GENERAL—David Natzler PERSONAL ASSISTANT—Charlotte Every DIRECTOR OF DEPARTMENTAL SERVICES—Nick Walker Overseas Office—— PRINCIPAL CLERK—Crispin Poyser DELEGATION SECRETARIES—Nick Wright, Jyoti Chandola INWARD VISITS MANAGER—Susan Pamphlett NATIONAL PARLIAMENT REPRESENTATIVE,BRUSSELS—Edward Beale DEPUTY NATIONAL PARLIAMENT REPRESENTATIVE,BRUSSELS—Sarah Clarkson Vote Office—— DELIVERER OF THE VOTE—Catherine Fogarty DEPUTY DELIVERER OF THE VOTE—Owen Sweeney (Parliamentary), Tom McVeagh (Production)

COMMITTEE DIRECTORATE Committee Office—— CLERK OF COMMITTEES—Andrew Kennon CLERK OF DOMESTIC COMMITTEES—Robert Twigger PRINCIPAL CLERKS OF SELECT COMMITTEES—Philippa Helme, Mark Hutton, Chris Stanton BUSINESS MANAGER—Kevin Candy OPERATIONS MANAGER—Karen Saunders Departmental Select Committees—— BUSINESS,INNOVATION AND SKILLS:CLERKS—James Davies, Neil Caulfield COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT:CLERKS—Glenn McKee, Edward White CULTURE,MEDIA AND SPORT:CLERKS—Elizabeth Flood, Sarah Heath DEFENCE:CLERKS—Alda Barry, Judith Boyce EDUCATION:CLERKS— Lynn Gardner, PhD, Elisabeth Bates ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE:CLERK— Sarah Hartwell-Naguib ENVIRONMENT,FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS:CLERKS—Richard Cooke, Lucy Petrie FOREIGN AFFAIRS:CLERKS— Kenneth Fox, Eliot Barrass HEALTH:CLERKS—David Lloyd, Martyn Atkins HOME AFFAIRS:CLERKS— Tom Healey, Richard Benwell, INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT:CLERKS—David Harrison, Marek Kubala JUSTICE:CLERKS—Tom Goldsmith, Sarah Petit NORTHERN IRELAND AFFAIRS:CLERK—Mike Clark POLITICAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM:CLERK – Joanna Dodd REGULATORY REFORM:CLERK—Neil Caulfield SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY:CLERK—Stephen McGinness HOUSE OF COMMONS—cont. vii

SCOTTISH AFFAIRS:CLERK—Eliot Wilson TRANSPORT:CLERKS—Mark Egan, PhD, Jessica Montgomery TREASURY:CLERKS—Chris Stanton, Lydia Menzies WELSH AFFAIRS:CLERK—Adrian Jenner WORK AND PENSIONS:CLERKS—Carol Oxborough, Catherine Tyack Domestic Committees—— ADMINISTRATION:CLERK—David Weir FINANCE AND SERVICES:CLERK— Other Committees—— ARMS EXPORT CONTROLS (COMMITTEES ON): CLERK—Keith Neary ENVIRONMENTAL AUDIT:CLERKS—Simon Fiander, Nick Beech JOINT COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS:COMMONS CLERK—Mike Hennessy LIAISON:CLERKS—Andrew Kennon, Philippa Helme PUBLIC ACCOUNTS:CLERK—Phillip Aylett PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION:CLERKS—Emily Commander, Charlotte Pochin Scrutiny Unit—— HEAD OF UNIT—Chris Shaw DEPUTY HEAD OF UNIT (FINANCE)—Larry Honeysett

CHAMBER BUSINESS DIRECTORATE CLERK OF LEGISLATION—Jacqy Sharpe Public and Private Bill Office CLERK OF BILLS,EXAMINER OF PETITIONS FOR PRIVATE BILLS AND TAXING OFFICER—Simon Patrick James Rhys, Steven Mark, Kate Emms, Sarah Thatcher, Alison Groves PRIVATE BILL OFFICE—Annette Toft Committees— COURT OF REFEREES:CLERK—Simon Patrick SELECTION:CLERK—Annette Toft STANDING ORDERS,UNOPPOSED BILLS:CLERK—Sara Howe Delegated Legislation Office EUROPEAN SCRUTINY COMMITTEE:CLERK—Sarah Davies CLERK ADVISERS— Peter Harborne, David Griffiths, Leigh Gibson, Terry Byrne JOINT COMMITTEE ON STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS:COMMONS CLERK—Charlotte Littleboy Journal Office—— CLERK OF THE JOURNALS—Liam Laurence Smyth Mark Etherton, Elizabeth Hunt, Eve Samson, Huw Yardley, Lloyd Owen, Anne-Marie Griffiths (Clerk of Public Petitions) PROCEDURE COMMITTEE:CLERK—Huw Yardley STANDARDS AND PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE:CLERK—Eve Samson SPEAKER’S COMMITTEE FOR IPSA: CLERK—Elizabeth Hunt SPEAKER’S COMMITTEE ON THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION:CLERK— Elizabeth Hunt Table Office—— PRINCIPAL CLERK—Paul Evans Rob Cope, Sue Griffiths, Tracey Jessup, Gordon Clarke, Francene Graham, Robin James, Richard Ward, Lynn Lewis (Editorial Supervisor of the Vote) BACKBENCH BUSINESS:CLERKS— Sue Griffiths

OFFICIAL REPORT DIRECTORATE EDITOR—Lorraine Sutherland DEPUTY EDITOR—Alex Newton DIRECTOR OF BROADCASTING—John Angeli MANAGING EDITORS—Paul Hadlow, Clare Hanly, Deborah Jones, Ann Street, Jon Prawer, Vivien Wilson, Jack Homer, Ross Gunby, Adele Dodd SUB-EDITORS—Eira Gregory, Kate Myers, Juliet Levy, Victoria Hart, Tony Minichiello, Emma Kirby, Paul Kirby, David Hampton, Jez Oates, Barry Geall, Jonathan Hoare, Portia Dadley, Elaine Harrison, Joanna Lipkowska, Richard Purnell, Bran Jones, Patricia Hill SENIOR REPORTERS—Emily Morris, Mayah Weinberg, Jude Wheway, Felicity Reardon, Paul Underhill, Angus Andrews, Saul Minaee, Jim Barr, Cara Clark, Ian Oakhill, Steve Habberley, Will Holdaway, Paul Owen, Luanne Middleton, Tom Martin, Keith Brown LEARNING AND DEVELOPMENT OFFICER—Jon Prawer HEAD OF ADMINISTRATION—Stephen O’Riordan viii HOUSE OF COMMONS—cont.

SENIOR HANSARD ADMINISTRATORS—John Brake, Brian Harrison HANSARD PRODUCTION MANAGER—Stuart Miller ANNUNCIATOR SUPERINTENDENT—Richard Quirk

SERJEANT AT ARMS DIRECTORATE SERJEANT AT ARMS—Lawrence Ward DEPUTY SERJEANT AT ARMS—Mike Naworynsky, OBE ASSISTANT SERJEANT AT ARMS— CLERK IN CHARGE—Laura Castillo ADMISSION ORDER OFFICE—Samantha Howlett PRINCIPAL DOORKEEPER—Robin Fell PASS OFFICE MANAGER—Hannah Evans MEMBERS’STAFF VERIFICATION OFFICE MANAGER—Guy Turner

LEGAL SERVICES OFFICE SPEAKER’S COUNSEL—Michael Carpenter COUNSEL—Peter Davis (Legislation), Paul Hardy (European Legislation) DEPUTY COUNSEL—Peter Brooksbank, Philip Davies, Daniel Greenberg ASSISTANT COUNSEL—Helen Emes, Debbie Sayers

DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION SERVICES DIRECTOR GENERAL/LIBRARIAN—John Pullinger DIRECTOR OF SERVICE DELIVERY—John Benger Curator’s Office— CURATOR OF WORKS OF ART—Malcolm Hay Parliamentary Office of Science & Technology (POST) — HEAD—Chandy Nath (temporary) Central Support Services— HEAD OF CENTRAL SUPPORT—Ed Potton Office Services— OFFICE SERVICES MANAGER—Gabrielle Hughes

RESEARCH AND LIBRARY DIRECTORATE DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH SERVICES—Bryn Morgan Business and Transport— HEAD OF SECTION—Tim Edmonds LIBRARY CLERKS—Louise Butcher, Antony Seely, Djuna Thurley, Jacky Parker Economic Policy and Statistics— HEAD OF SECTION—Adam Mellows-Facer LIBRARY CLERKS—Grahame Allen, Lorna Booth, Daniel Harari, Lucinda Maer, Christopher Rhodes, Gavin Thompson, Dominic Webb Home Affairs— HEAD OF SECTION—Pat Strickland LIBRARY CLERKS—Sally Lipscombe, Lorraine Conway, Catherine Fairbairn, Gabrielle Garton-Grimwood, Melanie Gower, Alexander Horne, Philip Ward, PhD, John Woodhouse, Jacqueline Beard International Affairs and Defence— HEAD OF SECTION—Vaughne Miller LIBRARY CLERKS—Louisa Brooke-Holland, Jon Lunn, DPhil, Ben Smith, Arabella Thorp SENIOR LIBRARY EXECUTIVES—Emma Clark, Julia Keddie Parliament and Constitution Centre— HEAD OF SECTION—Oonagh Gay LIBRARY CLERKS—Paul Bowers, Richard Kelly, Keith Parry, Chris Sear, Isobel White Reference Services— HEAD OF SECTION—Dora Clark LIBRARY CLERKS—Katharine Gray, Mark Sandford SENIOR EXECUTIVE OFFICERS—Amina Gual, John Prince, Catrin Owens DEPOSITED PAPERS &RESOURCE MANAGER—Greg Howard Science and Environment— HEAD OF SECTION—Christopher Barclay LIBRARY CLERKS—Elena Ares, Oliver Bennett, Farrah Bhatti, Grahame Danby, Emma Downing, Patsy Richards, Louise Smith HOUSE OF COMMONS—cont. ix

Social and General Statistics— HEAD OF SECTION—Richard Cracknell LIBRARY CLERKS—Gavin Berman, Paul Bolton, Rachael Harker, Oliver Hawkins, Matthew Keep, Feargal McGuinness, Rod McInnes, Tom Rutherford Social Policy— HEAD OF SECTION—Christine Gillie LIBRARY CLERKS—Manjit Gheera, Susan Hubble, Tim Jarrett, Steven Kennedy, Robert Long, Tom Powell, Wendy Wilson

DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION MANAGEMENT—Steve Wise Indexing and Data Management— HEAD OF SECTION—Gini Griffin/Catherine Meredith Library Resources— HEAD OF SECTION—Katharine Marke PUBLIC INFORMATION DIRECTORATE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC INFORMATION—Edward Wood House of Commons Information Office/Parliamentary Outreach— HEAD OF PUBLIC INFORMATION & OUTREACH—Clare Cowan Web and Intranet Service— HEAD OF ONLINE SERVICES—Tracy Green Media & Communications Service— SENIOR MEDIA AND COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER—Lee Bridges PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT DIRECTORATE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT—Aileen Walker Public Engagement and Events HEAD OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT AND EVENTS—Tom O’Leary Education Service— EDUCATION SERVICE MANAGER—Emma-Jane Watchorn Visitor Services— HEAD OF VISITOR SERVICES—Deborah Newman Spire Programme— SPIRE PROGRAMME DIRECTOR—Helen Wood DEPARTMENT OF HR & CHANGE Director General’s Office— DIRECTOR GENERAL OF HR&CHANGE—Andrew Walker ASSISTANT TO DIRECTOR GENERAL—Tara Cullen PERSONAL ASSISTANT—Yvonne Carson DIRECTOR OF BUSINESS AND CAPABILITY—Janet Rissen DIRECTOR OF HUMAN RESOURCES SERVICES—Heather Bryson DIRECTOR OF CHANGE—Selven Naicker DEPARTMENTAL BUSINESS AND FINANCE MANAGER—Andy Vallins HEAD OF PEOPLE DEVELOPMENT—Patricia Macaulay-Fraser HEAD OF EMPLOYEE RELATIONS,PAY AND POLICY—Reg Perry HEAD OF HR OPERATIONS—Alix Langley HEAD OF DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION—Anne Foster BUSINESS PARTNERS—James Bigwood, Johan van den Broek, Soraya Ounssi Members’ Advisory Service and Members’ Personnel Advice Service (PAS) — SENIOR HR MANAGER—Dapo Coker Information Rights and Information Security Services (IRIS)— HEAD OF IRIS—Victoria Payne Safety, Health and Wellbeing— HEAD OF SAFETY,HEALTH AND WELLBEING—Marianne McDougall CONSULTANT OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH PHYSICIANS—Dr Ira Madan, Dr Mary Sherry HEALTH AND SAFETY ADVISERS— Elizabeth Cameron-Taber, Amanda Hastings OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND WELLBEING MANAGER—Anne Mossop WELFARE OFFICER – Tanya Harris CLINICAL NURSE ADVISERS—Karen St Cyr, Lucy Walsh, Sally Nightingale x HOUSE OF COMMONS—cont.

Trade Union Side— TRADE UNION SIDE ADMINISTRATORS—Sandra Deakins, Denise Eltringham

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE DIRECTOR—Myfanwy Barrett PERSONAL ASSISTANT—Yvonne Carson Pensions Unit — HEAD OF PENSIONS— Lucy Tindal (Acting)

FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT DIRECTORATE DIRECTOR OF FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT—Christopher Ridley HEAD OF FINANCIAL PLANNING—Anthony Hindley FINANCIAL CONTROLLER—Julia Routledge CORPORATE ACCOUNTANT—Debra Shirtcliffe SYSTEMS ACCOUNTANT—Colin Lewis

COMMERCIAL SERVICES DIRECTORATE ACTING DIRECTOR OF COMMERCIAL SERVICES—Veronica Daly PROCUREMENT MANAGERS—Sue Parr, Sheila Brightwell

SAVINGS DIRECTORATE DIRECTOR OF SAVINGS — Elizabeth Honer HEAD OF SAVINGS REVIEWS – Martin Trott

DEPARTMENT OF FACILITIES DIRECTOR GENERAL—John Borley, CB EXECUTIVE OFFICER—Katy Gray COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER— Rina Odedra DIRECTOR OF FINANCE—Philip Collins DIRECTOR OF BUSINESS MANAGEMENT—John Greenaway

PARLIAMENTARY ESTATES DIRECTORATE PARLIAMENTARY DIRECTOR OF ESTATES—Mel Barlex, BSc, MBA, MCR, MRICS, MBIFM DEPUTY DIRECTOR &HEAD OF PROJECTS—Christine Sillis, MBA, DipBldgCons, FRICS HEAD OF DIRECTOR’S OFFICE— Georgina Holmes-Skelton DEPUTY HEAD OF DIRECTOR’S OFFICE AND BUSINESS MANAGER—Deborah Taylor HEAD OF MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS—Lester Benjamin, BEng, CEng, MCIBS HEAD OF PROGRAMME &PLANNING MANAGEMENT—Steve Beck HEAD OF FIRE,SAFETY &ENVIRONMENT—Charlotte Simmonds FIRE SAFETY MANAGER—David Kaye, GIFireE PRINCIPAL,INTERIOR DESIGN AND FURNISHING— Mary-Jane Tsang (Acting) PRINCIPAL ARCHITECT —Adam Watrobski PRINCIPAL ESTATES MANAGER—Helen Arkell PRINCIPAL ENGINEER—Keith Gregory, BTech, CEng, MCIBSE PRINCIPAL SURVEYOR—Jon Prew, BSc, MIStrucE, MAPM ASSET MANAGER—Andrew Geehan ESTATES ARCHIVIST—Dr Mark Collins

CATERING AND RETAIL SERVICES DIRECTOR OF CATERING AND RETAIL SERVICES—Sue Harrison EXECUTIVE CHEF—Mark Hill OPERATIONS MANAGER—Robert Gibbs CATERING MANAGER,TERRACE COMPLEX—Denise Durkin BANQUETING &EVENTS MANAGER— Lee Holt BANQUETING &EVENTS OFFICE MANAGER—Jason Bonello FOOD &BEVERAGE MANAGER (ACTING)— Martyn Westcott-Wreford CATERING MANAGER,1PARLIAMENT STREET &PRESS COMPLEX —James Ellis CATERING MANAGER,7MILLBANK—Vacancy RETAIL MANAGER—Eric Darengosse PURCHASING &STORES MANAGER—Antony Avella HOUSE OF COMMONS—cont. xi

ACCOMMODATION AND LOGISTICS SERVICES DIRECTOR OF ACCOMMODATION AND LOGISTICS SERVICES—James Robertson PARLIAMENTARY LOGISTICS MANAGER—Wesley Auvache MEMBERS ACCOMMODATION MANAGER—Fiona Channon ACCOMMODATION MANAGER—Susanna Lumsden HEAD OFFICE KEEPER—Brendon Mulvihill SENIOR OFFICE KEEPERS—Doreen Irving, Simon Mansfield (Acting), Les Stockwell CLEANING MANAGER—Carol Hill POSTMASTER—Mark Morrish

PARLIAMENTARY ICT SERVICE (PICT) DIRECTOR OF PICT—Joan Miller DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS AND MEMBER SERVICES—Matthew Taylor DIRECTOR OF RESOURCES—Fergus Reid DIRECTOR OF TECHNOLOGY—Steve O’Connor DIRECTOR OF NETWORK PROGRAMME—Innis Montgomery DIRECTOR OF PROGRAMMES AND DEVELOPMENT—Simon Nicholls MEMBERS’COMPUTING OFFICER (COMMONS)—Andrew Morrison MEMBERS’COMPUTING OFFICER (LORDS)—Loraine Midda TELECOMMUNICATIONS MANAGER—Caroline Robertson

OTHER PRINCIPAL OFFICERS

CLERK OF THE CROWN IN CHANCERY—Sir Suma Chakrabarti, KCB COMPTROLLER AND AUDITOR GENERAL—Amyas Morse PARLIAMENTARY AND HEALTH SERVICE OMBUDSMAN—Ann Abraham

9 May 2012

THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OFFICIAL REPORT

IN THE SECOND SESSION OF THE FIFTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND [WHICH OPENED 18 MAY 2010]

SIXTY-FIRST YEAR OF THE REIGN OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II

SIXTH SERIES VOLUME 545 FIRST VOLUME OF SESSION 2012-2013

It is also important that our constituents feel free to House of Commons come to us no matter what the circumstances, and that they suffer no disadvantage as a result. Each hon. Wednesday 9 May 2012 Member is here to represent the views of his or her constituents and to participate in the process of The House met at twenty-five minutes past parliamentary democracy. We should ensure that every Eleven o’clock Member is heard courteously, regardless of the views that he or she is expressing. I and my Deputies seek to PRAYERS ensure that as many Members as possible can participate in our proceedings. That ambition will be greatly aided by brevity in questions, speeches and interventions by [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] all hon. Members. MESSAGE TO ATTEND HER MAJESTY Every member of the public has a right to expect that his or her Member of Parliament will behave with Message to attend Her Majesty delivered by the Gentleman civility, in the best traditions of fairness, with the highest Usher of the Black Rod. level of probity and with integrity. We are also under an The Speaker, with the House, went up to attend Her obligation to try to explain to our constituents how Majesty; on their return, the Speaker suspended the sitting. Parliament works. In this mission we are ably assisted by the staff of the House. House staff, who are vital in Speaker’s Statement supporting the work of this House and who do so with dedication and courtesy, are likewise entitled to be 2.30 pm treated with dignity, courtesy and respect. Mr Speaker: The House has agreed that the Speaker Finally, I should like also to remind all hon. Members should make a statement at the beginning of each that the security of this building and those who work Session about the duties and responsibilities of hon. and visit here depends upon all of us. Please be vigilant Members. May I begin by reminding Members of the and tell the Serjeant at Arms about any concerns you House’s code of conduct, which we recently agreed to in have on the subject. Wear your photo identity pass a revised form? All Members are under a duty to while you are on the parliamentary estate—this is observe it in letter and in spirit. Members are answerable particularly important over the next 24 hours, as there for their conduct in this place, not just to the House but will be a number of police officers on duty, covering for to the public. absent security officers, who cannot be expected to Our ancient privileges allow us to conduct our debate recognise Members. Remember that you are responsible without fear of outside interference. Parliamentary privilege for the behaviour of your visitors and for ensuring that underpins proper democratic debate and scrutiny. It they are escorted in non-public areas of the estate. will be under renewed scrutiny over the next few months, Before moving to the first business of the new Session, with the Government’s consultation on the subject. In I would like to express my very best wishes to all hon. particular, we enjoy freedom of speech in Committee Members and staff for the 2012-13 Session of Parliament. proceedings and in debate. Freedom of speech in debate is at the very heart of what we do here for our constituents, and it allows us to conduct our business without fear of OUTLAWRIES BILL outside interference. But it is a freedom that we need to A Bill for the more effectual preventing Clandestine exercise responsibly in the public interest and taking Outlawries was read the First time, and ordered to be read into account the interests of others outside this House. a Second time. 3 9 MAY 2012 Queen’s Speech 4

Queen’s Speech My Government will continue to work with the fifteen other Commonwealth Realms to take forward reform of the rules governing succession to the Crown. Mr Speaker: I have to acquaint the House that this House has this day attended Her Majesty in the House Legislation will be brought forward which will introduce of Peers, and that Her Majesty was pleased to make a individual registration of electors and improve the Most Gracious Speech from the Throne to both Houses administration of elections. of Parliament, of which I have, for greater accuracy, A Bill will be brought forward to reform the composition obtained a copy. of the House of Lords. I shall direct that the terms of the Gracious Speech My Government will continue to work constructively be printed in the Votes and Proceedings. Copies are and cooperatively with the devolved institutions. available in the Vote Office. The Gracious Speech was as follows: Members of the House of Commons My Government’s legislative programme will focus on Estimates for the public services will be laid before you. economic growth, justice and constitutional reform. My Ministers’ first priority will be to reduce the deficit My Lords and Members of the House of Commons and restore economic stability. My Government is committed to reducing and preventing Legislation will be introduced to reduce burdens on crime. A Bill will be introduced to establish the National business by repealing unnecessary legislation and to limit Crime Agency to tackle the most serious and organised state inspection of businesses. crime and strengthen border security. The courts and My Government will introduce legislation to reform tribunals service will be reformed to increase efficiency, competition law to promote enterprise and fair markets. transparency and judicial diversity. My Government will introduce legislation to establish Legislation will be introduced to protect freedom of a Green Investment Bank. speech and reform the law of defamation. Measures will be brought forward to further strengthen My Government will introduce legislation to strengthen regulation of the financial services sector and implement oversight of the security and intelligence agencies. This the recommendations of the Independent Commission on will also allow courts, through the limited use of closed Banking. proceedings, to hear a greater range of evidence in national My Government will introduce legislation to establish security cases. an independent adjudicator to ensure supermarkets deal My Government intends to bring forward measures to fairly and lawfully with suppliers. maintain the ability of the law enforcement and intelligence A Bill will be introduced to reduce burdens on charities, agencies to access vital communications data under strict enabling them to claim additional payments on small safeguards to protect the public, subject to scrutiny of donations. draft clauses. My Government will propose reform of the electricity My Government will seek the approval of Parliament market to deliver secure, clean and affordable electricity relating to the agreed financial stability mechanism within and ensure prices are fair. the euro area. A draft Bill will be published to reform the water My Government will seek the approval of Parliament on industry in England and Wales. the anticipated accession of Croatia to the European Union. My Government will bring forward measures to modernise My Government will work to support a secure and the pension system and reform the state pension, creating stable Afghanistan, to reduce the threat of nuclear a fair, simple and sustainable foundation for private saving. proliferation, including in Iran, and to bring greater stability Legislation will be introduced to reform public service to the Horn of Africa. pensions in line with the recommendations of the independent In the Middle East and North Africa, my Government commission on public service pensions. will support the extension of political and economic freedom A draft Bill will be published setting out measures to in countries in transition. close the Audit Commission and establish new arrangements My Government has set out firm plans to spend nought for the audit of local public bodies. point seven per cent of gross national income as official My Government will strive to improve the lives of development assistance from 2013. This will be the first children and families. time the United Kingdom has met this agreed international commitment. My Government will propose measures to improve provision for disabled children and children with special My Government will build strategic partnerships with educational needs. New arrangements will be proposed to the emerging powers. support children involved in family law cases, reform court The United Kingdom will assume the Presidency of the processes for children in care and strengthen the role of G8 in 2013: my Government will use this opportunity to the Children’s Commissioner. promote international security and prosperity. Measures will be proposed to make parental leave more In the year of the Diamond Jubilee, Prince Philip and flexible so both parents may share parenting responsibilities I will continue to take part in celebrations across the and balance work and family commitments. United Kingdom. The Prince of Wales and other members A draft Bill will be published to modernise adult care of my family are travelling widely to take part in festivities and support in England. throughout the Commonwealth. Prince Philip and I look 5 Queen’s Speech 9 MAY 2012 6 forward to the London Olympic and Paralympic Games Debate on the Address and to welcoming visitors from around the world to London and venues throughout the country. [1ST DAY] Other measures will be laid before you. Mr Speaker: Before I call the mover and seconder, I want to announce the proposed pattern of debate during My Lords and Members of the House of Commons the remaining days on the Loyal Address: Thursday I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon 10 May—home affairs and justice; Monday 14 May— your counsels. business and the economy; Tuesday 15 May—foreign affairs and international development; Wednesday 16 May —cost of living; Thursday 17 May—jobs and growth. 2.35 pm Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): I beg to move, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, as follows: Most Gracious Sovereign, We, YourMajesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble thanks to Your Majesty for the Gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament. In this year of the Queen’s diamond jubilee, I am deeply honoured to move the Loyal Address. For six decades, Her Majesty has provided us with a peerless example of duty, dignity and service to the nation. And it was the subject of “peerlessness” that was immediately on my mind when I was called into the Chief Whip’s office last week. I really thought that he wanted to have a full and frank discussion with me on the reform of the other place. I ran to No. 9 Downing street, in the pouring rain, clutching my folder of briefing notes, while continuously repeating, “More effective, but not elected. More effective, but not elected.” I can announce to this House that having a small glass of water, without the biscuits, with the Chief Whip has allowed us to reach agreement; as our manifesto demanded, a consensus on this thorny issue has been reached. It was only later that I remembered something important: the accepted convention is that this Address is usually delivered by an hon. Member of this House just as their illustrious career is starting to approach its expiry date— perhaps my right. hon. Friend the Prime Minister was gently hinting that I had a great future behind me. Equally, the Loyal Address is usually seconded by a young, ambitious, thrusting Back Bencher who is hungry for promotion, and it is in that spirit that I warmly congratulate the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), who has that happy role today. Although I have rarely seen the Chamber this full, this will probably not be my most watched speech. Not many Back-Bench MPs can boast more than 130,000 downloads on YouTube, for a few lines uttered during an Opposition day debate. To any colleagues in the House seeking a wider audience for their speeches, my advice is: spend less time thinking about what you are going to say and more time thinking about what you are going to wear. I recommend a loud tie—preferably one with a soundtrack. The last person to move this motion was my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr Lilley), and I seem to recall that he informed this House that he was able to trace his lineage back to the village of Lilley, which has existed in his constituency since Anglo-Saxon times. With a name like mine, I was never going to convince the voters of Stratford-on-Avon 7 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 8

[Nadhim Zahawi] In my own constituency, I see even small businesses grabbing hold of the opportunities that those huge that my ancestors fought the Normans at the battle of numbers represent. Reforms that unleash the creative Hastings. In fact, Stratford-on-Avon is a constituency power of our small and medium-sized businesses are in the heart of England, in the county of Warwickshire, the best growth strategy that this country could possibly that is 90% white. If I may say so, Mr Speaker, this is have. not a kaleidoscope county. But it is testament to the In business, we soon learn that the world owes us values of that constituency, and of this country, that it nothing; historic ties, patient diplomacy, shared values chose me as its representative, and it is on its behalf that and even shared language will not get us that contract I deliver this address. unless we can also beat our rivals on quality, service and During the election, I canvassed every one of Stratford- price. That is a lesson that we ignore at our peril. Yet on-Avon’s 79 villages and hamlets, as well as its four there is one area in which the world does owe Britain—one principal towns. It became clear to me that people were field in which we remain both a net creditor and a not interested in my ethnicity, or in where I had gone to leading exporter. It is more stable than finance and school. What they wanted to know was: was I on their more enduring than oil. I am describing our extraordinary side, and was I up to the job? For us politicians, and for cultural industries. Indeed, as the Member for Stratford- this Government, those are the questions that really on-Avon, I cannot proceed any further without a mention matter. Our different backgrounds were certainly a point of William Shakespeare, my most famous former of curiosity, but what made the difference was our constituent. shared values, and in that the people of Stratford represent Members of the House will doubtless be familiar the very best of modern Britain. with Shakespeare’s warning in Act I of “Hamlet”: Mr Speaker, my family arrived on these shores with “Give thy thoughts no tongue, only £50 in their pockets—immigrants from a land in Nor any unproportion’d thought his act”— the grip of a cruel and murderous regime. This great valuable advice indeed for those of us who use Twitter, country offered us the priceless gifts of freedom and Mr Speaker. opportunity, and the ultimate proof of that opportunity is that I can stand before you today as a Member of The House will be aware of not only Shakespeare the this, the oldest and greatest of all Parliaments. playwright and poet, but Shakespeare the industry—another area in which our fame resounds across the world. Today, the task before us all is to spread that opportunity When the Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao, visited Britain further. To do so, we must strengthen enterprise and for two days last summer, one day was reserved for deliver a more affordable state. It will not be easy. As high-level strategic talks in Whitehall, but the other—at my hon. Friend, and co-author, the Member for West his own request—was spent with the Shakespeare Birthplace Suffolk (Matthew Hancock) well knows, over the past Trust in Stratford. The thought of one of the world’s decade or more our banks have been managed not by most powerful men wearing special white gloves, so that the masters of the universe, but by the masters of he could handle a Shakespeare first edition with reverence, nothing. I am therefore pleased that the Gracious Speech is a striking reminder of just how far our cultural reach has announced measures to implement the Vickers extends. And the traffic is not just one-way; for the recommendations on banking reform. We should not many Chinese visitors to Stratford, a park bench where make the mistake of thinking that this is merely a Premier Wen took a short rest has become a major technical issue, of no interest to the public. It matters to tourist attraction. people, because they want a fairer and stronger financial system, not one of cosy cartels and taxpayer bail-outs. In summing up, I should say that it is Shakespeare the man who resonates with me the most. As well as creating What is happening right now in the eurozone will great art, Shakespeare built a great business. Uniquely matter, too. In Greece, hardliners and extremists are among Elizabethan playwrights, he owned a share in threatening to take over the political mainstream, but it the theatre company for which he wrote. Like all good is comforting that there are early signs of a reverse business owners, he invested in his company. In 1608, he trend here in the UK. In Britain, extremists and hardliners helped to finance a second theatre in Blackfriars, just are rejoining the mainstream. Only yesterday my right across the river from the more famous Globe. Lacking hon. Friend the Business Secretary issued a clarion call family connections, but possessed of a great grammar for the repatriation of powers from Brussels. After such school education, his achievement is all the more a far-sighted and decisive intervention, by such a senior remarkable. member of the Government, no one can say that this coalition is not working. But there is a serious point As well as being the greatest writer in our language—in here. People at home watching the political mayhem in any language, I would say—there is no better embodiment Europe would be utterly dismayed if we failed to maintain of British values than this self-taught, self-made, and a strong and focused Government to deal with this indeed self-created, man. He was a man who worked his crisis. utmost to put on earth and in our hearts a source of wealth that endures to this day. In fact, more than that, There is a real opportunity beyond the crisis, and I I would go as far as to say that the great bard was in his therefore welcome the Government’s commitment to soul and actions a natural Tory. I commend the motion build strategic partnerships with the emerging powers. to the House. Over the next 10 years the global economy is forecast to grow by $9 trillion—and $6 trillion of that growth will 2.47 pm come from one country: China. In fact, China is growing so quickly that it creates an economy the size of Greece Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): I am very privileged every three months. On current trends, we might have to to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon revise that upwards. (Nadhim Zahawi); the House will be glad that he left his 9 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 10 loud tie and accompanying soundtrack behind. But he People often ask me where Gordon is. The trouble is did manage to make a powerful and entertaining speech. that the constituency derives its name not from a place I remind him, however, that he and I would be considerably but from the Gordon family. Lady Aberdeen, June disadvantaged in our task today had we not been elected Gordon, who died in 2009 at the age of 95, was well to this House. Law-makers should be held accountable beloved as a great patron of the arts at Haddo house. At to law-obeyers. an event shortly after my re-election in 1997, she told It is an honour to be asked to second the Loyal me that she was delighted that I had been re-elected Address and a great surprise to be doing so. I realise I given my small majority in 1983. “I was so concerned am the old guard following the young blood, but I hope that you might not get back”, she said, “that I nearly that the kinder Members of the House might see a little voted for you.” The Gordon family have also produced wisdom tempering youthful exuberance. A great deal one Prime Minister, the fourth Earl of Aberdeen, who has changed in the 29 years since I entered the House, led a Liberal-Conservative Government and included but some things do not change. I made my maiden Palmerston and Gladstone in his Cabinet. speech in a Queen’s Speech debate on the health service. Of course, we are also famous for fine malt whisky. The Health Minister who replied was the right hon. and [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear!”] That is going down well learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), who has at the back. One commentator described me as the proved himself a survivor in Government, even if he is Member for Gordon, the home of malt gin; and in fact now more rounded and more mellow—even if we are it is the same Gordon family who were responsible for talking only about his shoes and his figure. that most English of drinks—gin. We have some fine I represent part of the north-east of Scotland, which distilleries, including Glendronach, Ardmore and Glen is characterised by a dry, understated sense of humour. Garioch, which won an award for the best Highland For the past 30 years, we have been entertained by a single malt this March—so go out and get it! talented trio known as Scotland the What? and they Scotland’s First Minister has stated that he will not invented a number of kooky characters, one of whom wear a kilt in Scotland until independence has been was the Member of Parliament for Aucherturra wi’ achieved. Of all the economic, historical, legal, cultural Clatt, which is a name that resonates across Gordon, if and social arguments for rejecting independence, surely nowhere else; indeed, I think that you are looking at the most overwhelming must be to protect the people of that hon. Member. Less salubrious was Councillor Swick, Scotland from the sight of Alex Salmond in a kilt. which means “swindle” in the local dialect. In one No Member on the Government Benches needs telling sketch, he plays a justice of the peace, and he instructs that this is a difficult time to be in government. We the procurator fiscal to bring in the first criminal. When inherited an unsustainable level of public debt and a he is told that the accused is innocent until proved recession across developed economies. The coalition guilty, he demands of the procurator fiscal, “Whose agreement took as its mantra “freedom, fairness and side are you on?” At the end of his presiding over the responsibility” and we must work harder on that. court, he concluded, “In my court, justice has not only to be done but has to be seen to be believed.” In the two years since the first Queen’s Speech of this Parliament, a great deal of heavy lifting has been carried The constituency of Gordon has changed a great out. When there is no money left, it is impossible not to deal. For a start, it has experienced four boundary make painful decisions to turn around a huge debt and changes. Nevertheless, the voters of Gordon have done lay the foundations of a more sustainable future. However, me the honour of electing me seven times. Currently, I believe that we have strived hard to be fair. Raising the one third of the population lives in the northern part tax threshold to £9,205 a year by the end of this Session of the city of Aberdeen, which includes the airport— and increasing pensions and most benefits with inflation the fastest-growing airport in the UK. That airport at a time of no growth is, I believe, an extraordinary is crucial to our dynamic economy. We have two achievement. renowned universities and food and agricultural research centres of world repute, while Rowett research institute On the core agenda, the coalition has still much to has produced no fewer than three Nobel laureates, do. This is not a time to be distracted by unproductive and of course there is the global energy industry. Like arguments between left and right or to deepen our most people in Gordon, I did not support the oil tax divisions with the rest of Europe, whose problems changes in last year’s Budget, but I appreciate the profoundly affect us. There is more than enough that engagement with the industry by all relevant Ministers unites us. and Departments, which led to further tax measures in Our reform agenda, far from being some right-wing this year’s Budget that have gone a long way towards conspiracy to destroy our welfare system and public restoring confidence. services, is aimed at ensuring that we can maintain in The other two thirds of the population of Gordon the long term the viable, fair and inclusive welfare live in central Aberdeenshire—a productive farming system on which our civilised society depends. For that and food producing region notable for prime beef promoted to happen, we need to secure growth in the private by ANM Group, Scotch Premier Meat, and innovative sector. I therefore welcome the Government’s commitment mail order pioneer Donald Russell. We also have quality to banking and financial services reform. Apart from ice cream makers Mackie, who also produce a range of restoring confidence in retail banking and preventing crisps, and Rizza’s of Huntly, which is also the home of casino banking from bringing down our financial system Dean’s, makers of melt-in-the-mouth shortbread and again, we must find more ways to stimulate investment biscuits. [Interruption.] They did not pay me to say and bank lending to get the economy moving. I also that, I promise. Many of those food producers, and our welcome the commitment to electricity market reform mixed livestock and arable farmers, will welcome the and to getting the Green investment bank and the green Bill to establish a groceries code adjudicator. deal fully invested. 11 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 12

[Malcolm Bruce] I also pay tribute to David Cairns, who was able to enter the House only because the law was changed to I have long argued that Governments tend to produce allow a former Catholic priest to sit in Parliament. He too much legislation, often to placate the “something was funny, warm and principled, and his death one year must be done” school or cultivate the tabloids, and we ago today was a tragedy particularly for his partner, know where that has led us. I therefore strongly welcome Dermot, and his many, many friends. the repeal of statute law that will get rid of more than In her diamond jubilee year, I would also like to pay 200 unnecessary laws. However, I do not accept the tribute to Her Majesty the Queen. We are reminded yet argument that the economic crisis means we should set again today of her tireless service to the people of this aside our commitment to political reform in the shape country, and we are all looking forward to the national of the recall of MPs or the democratisation of our celebrations later this year. second Chamber, which has been deferred for nearly My understanding is that, by tradition, the Loyal 100 years. Address is proposed by a rising star of the governing Twenty years ago, the Loyal Address was seconded party, who is thrusting his way forward on to the rungs by the current Secretary of State for International of the ministerial ladder. Hon. Members of all parties Development. I suppose that encouragingly demonstrates can therefore agree that there could be no better choice that seconding it can lead to greatness, but as the than the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim current Chair of the Select Committee on International Zahawi). He spoke eloquently, movingly and with Development, an honour I very much cherish, I am confidence, and I congratulate him on his remarks. disappointed at the omission of legislation to enact the I believe that the hon. Gentleman is the first Member UK’s commitment to 0.7% of gross domestic product of the House to have been born in Iraqi Kurdistan. He being provided for overseas development assistance. spoke about the people of Stratford-on-Avon and said However, I recognise that legislation is not required for that his background was not the issue. However, he said us to meet that commitment next year, and I very much in an interview that I read: welcome the fact that it was reinforced in the Queen’s “What Britain gave my family was freedom and opportunity…to Speech. my family they weren’t just words, they changed our whole life.” As chair of the all-party group on deafness, may I He brings to the House a perspective that enriches us pay tribute to Jack Ashley following his passing? He all. was a great support and encouragement to me, and he The hon. Gentleman also has the distinction of being was always courteous, charming and humorous. He will the founder of the polling company YouGov. Let me be missed by many, but especially by the deaf community. say that I have spent much of the past 18 months It is 50 years ago this year that I joined the Liberal thinking that he has a lot to answer for. No doubt, after party and almost 29 years since I entered the House, so recent weeks, the Prime Minister feels the same. for all but the last two years I have been in opposition. The Leader of the Opposition is about to make his first I am used to seeing the hon. Gentleman as an enthusiastic reply to the debate on the Loyal Address. I know from Back Bencher—if I can put it like that—braying at me experience that it is often easier to oppose, but the left in with particular vigour from a sedentary position during Europe is about to be tested on whether it has coherent Prime Minister’s questions, so I am very happy to give and credible alternative policies. We need deficit reduction him the endorsement he no doubt craves and recommend and growth. We are living through perhaps the most unequivocally that the Prime Minister give him ministerial challenging times in living memory, but I came into preferment whenever the reshuffle comes. It would be politics to make a positive difference, to promote reform his gain and mine. and to achieve a fairer, more liberal society. That remains I also congratulate the seconder of the Loyal Address, my objective, and I commend the Loyal Address to the the right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce). House. He brought his years of distinguished service and wisdom to the job. He brings great skill and experience to the 2.58 pm House, including, as he said, as an assiduous and Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): I am sure enthusiastic Chairman of the International Development the whole House will wish to join me in paying tribute Committee. In doing research on his background, I got to those who have died in Afghanistan since we last extremely excited when someone in my office turned up met: Guardsman Michael Roland of 1st Battalion a biography from the internet, which stated: the Grenadier Guards, and Corporal Andrew Roberts “Malcolm Bruce also worked early in his career with Ozzy and Private Ratu Silibaravi of 23 Pioneer Regiment, the Osbourne and recently performed a Jimi Hendrix Birthday tribute.” Royal Logistics Corps. They all showed the utmost Sadly for me and for him, it turned out to be a different bravery, and our thoughts are with their family and Malcolm Bruce. friends. Let me also say from this House that we support However, the right hon. Gentleman continues to serve our mission in Afghanistan and will also support the Liberal Democrats in important ways, not least as the Prime Minister in the important efforts that he is their president in Scotland—I am sure he is very proud making to secure a political settlement there for when of that just now. No doubt he will play a crucial role in our troops have left. the inquest into that local election result in Edinburgh, As is customary, I would also like to pay tribute to where the Liberal Democrat candidate was beaten by a those Members who have died since the last Queen’s penguin. [Laughter.] Tory Members should not laugh Speech. First, Alan Keen was hugely popular with too much because there are more pandas than Tory Members of all parties. A football scout turned MP, he MPs in Scotland. I gently say to the right hon. Gentleman had faith in the power of sport and politics to change that he will have to do better than the explanation lives. He is missed sorely by his wife, Ann, and his offered locally in Edinburgh that family and friends. “it wasn’t a target ward”. 13 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 14

The right hon. Gentleman has had a long and Edward Miliband: We had a whole amendment on distinguished parliamentary career, which, under normal that. I wish the hon. Gentleman, having listened to his circumstances, would end up with service in the House constituents, had joined us in the Division Lobby to of Lords, if it was not for his leader’s determination to vote against the 50p tax change. abolish it. However, I pay tribute to him for his excellent The Prime Minister says he gets it. If he really did get speech. it, the first thing he would have done in this Queen’s On the Gracious Speech, first, let me say that we will Speech was drop his tax cut for millionaires, but he has work with the Government on the Green investment not done so. They are carrying on with a Finance Bill to bank, the defamation Bill and flexible parental leave, all put the 45p tax rate into law. Why are they doing that? of which sound remarkably like Labour ideas—because Because they really believe that their problems are not they are Labour ideas. those of policy, but those of public relations. This is the speech that was supposed to be the What did the part-time Chancellor say at the weekend? Government’s answer to the clear message from the He said: electorate last week, but on today’s evidence, they still “I know the way the Budget was presented meant this message do not get it. For a young person looking for work, this wasn’t heard.” speech offers nothing; for a family whose living standards are being squeezed, this speech offers nothing; for the The Deputy Prime Minister said: millions of people who think the Government are not “An impression has formed that this was a budget for the rich”. on their side, this speech offers nothing. “No change, no It is insights like that which got him where he is today. hope” is the real message of this Queen’s Speech. The Government just do not get it. The problem is The Prime Minister and the Chancellor appear to not the presentation of a tax cut for millionaires; it is believe that people are turning against them because the reality: £40,000 for every millionaire in Britain. It they have not understood the Government’s economic is not the presentation of cuts in tax credits; it is the policy, but the truth is that people have turned against reality. On the granny tax, the churches tax, the charities them because they have understood it only too well. tax and the whole Budget omnishambles, it is not the What did the Government promise two years ago? The presentation; it is the reality. Chancellor could not have been clearer in his emergency Budget, when he said there would be Several hon. Members rose— “a steady and sustained economic recovery, with low inflation and falling unemployment…a new model of economic growth”.— [Official Report, 22 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 168.] Edward Miliband: I will give way later. What has he delivered? He has delivered the worst Yes, the Government have a communication problem, unemployment in 16 years, 1 million young people out as the Prime Minister said this morning: the problem is of work and the first double-dip recession for 37 years. that the electorate have spoken, and they are not listening. They promised recovery, but they delivered recession—a But to solve his communication problem, the Prime recession made in Downing street. They have failed. Minister has a new way of explaining his policy. To the As if a failing plan was not bad enough, the Government policeman or woman being fired, to the young people added insult to injury in the Budget, by making millions looking for work, to the small business going under, pay more so that millionaires could pay less. There is no what was his message yesterday? He said: change on that in the Queen’s Speech either. I say to the “You call it austerity, I call it efficiency.” Prime Minister that he should listen to people such as Here it is from the Prime Minister, Cameron Direct, to Linda Pailing, the deputy chair of Harlow Conservative hundreds of thousands of people being made redundant: party, who said of her constituents: “The bad news is you’ve lost your job. The good news is “They don’t like the fact that he didn’t keep the 50p tax…people you’re a key part of our efficiency drive.” In two years, feel here that he is not working for them, he is working for his he has gone from David Cameron to David Brent. That friends”. is the reality. She said these elections are “to do with what Cameron and his cronies are doing”. Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): If It comes to something when even lifelong Tories do the right hon. Gentleman is on the side of hard-working not believe that this Prime Minister is on their side. Last people, why does he oppose the benefit cap equivalent Thursday, the British people delivered a damning verdict to a salary of £35,000 a year? on the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and their economic strategy. The Prime Minister says he gets it, but if he Edward Miliband: This is very interesting. I will tell really does, the first thing—[Interruption.] Government the hon. Gentleman why we wanted it done a different Members say, “What about London?”, which is interesting. way—[HON.MEMBERS: “Ah!”] I will tell him. It is because What did the Mayor of London say? He said he had the Secretary of State for Communities and Local “survived” the wind, Government said, in a letter to his colleagues, that the “the rain, the BBC, the Budget and the endorsement of David way in which the benefit cap was done would cost more Cameron”—[Laughter.] money, put more people into temporary accommodation I think they walked into that one. and fail to solve the problem. The Government did not listen to advice because they wanted to grab a political Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): The right hon. Gentleman headline—typical of this Prime Minister. talks about the 50p tax, but I am slightly confused as to If the Government did not have the courage to reverse why he did not vote against the change when he had the their Budget, they should have put an economy that opportunity to do so. works for working people at the centre of this Queen’s 15 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 16

[Edward Miliband] “As Conservatives, we have to learn lessons…In the spirit of non-spin, my benchmark for Labour was 700 seats”. Speech, but they have not. Utility bills, water bills and I think we slightly outperformed her expectations. the cost of getting to work are worrying families up and down the country— Several hon. Members rose— Several hon. Members rose— Edward Miliband: I have been generous in giving way. Edward Miliband: Opposition Members should calm On all the major issues, the Government have shown down: I will give way later. that they are out of touch. If we need any further proof, What have the Government got to say about those let us consider what they have done on crime—taking issues? Absolutely nothing. The energy Bill has nothing police off the streets with 20% cuts and stripping back to help people struggling to make ends meet. No legislation powers on antisocial behaviour. this year on water or on train fares—nothing to relieve Let me turn to one of the biggest omissions in the the squeeze on ordinary families. Queen’s Speech. There is no bigger challenge facing families up and down the country than care for elderly Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): I, too, am concerned relatives, and there was no clearer promise from the about utility bills—we are all concerned about utility Government than that they would legislate on it. bills—but let me remind the right hon. Gentleman that [Interruption.] I know Government Members do not when he was Secretary of State for Energy and Climate want to talk about what is happening in the Government, Change he proposed the renewable heating initiative but in their foreword to the health White Paper, the that would have put £193 on people’s bills. Why was Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister said that that not in his alternative Queen’s Speech? there would be “legislation in the second session of this parliament to establish a Edward Miliband: I will tell the hon. Gentleman what sustainable legal and financial framework for adult social care”. we did in government: we introduced the winter fuel Instead, we have nothing. [Interruption.] The Prime allowance and took action on pre-payment meters—far Minister says there is a draft Bill, but he said he would more than this Government have ever done. legislate in this Session, and he has failed to do so. They Let us talk about those at the top of society, executive have totally failed to do so. There was a clear promise. pay and multi-million pound bonuses—[Interruption.] [Interruption.] The Prime Minister should calm down. It is very interesting that Conservative Members are They promised a Bill on social care, but they chose not groaning about that, because a few months ago, the to include one. Prime Minister said that he was outraged about crony capitalism. He told us that he was grossly offended by it There is room in the Queen’s Speech for House of and that it was not what he believed in. Such was his Lords reform, however. I am a supporter of House of strength of feeling that in the entire Queen’s Speech, the Lords reform and a referendum, but I thought that a issue did not merit a single mention. Queen’s Speech was supposed to define a Government’s priorities. So there is a mystery that the Prime Minister I have a suggestion for the Prime Minister. He should needs to explain in his reply. Over the weekend, the accept the recommendation of the High Pay Commission Chancellor said that House of Lords reform to put an ordinary worker on the remuneration committee of every company in Britain. I say, “If you can’t look “is certainly not my priority, it is not the priority of the Government.” one of your employees in the eye to justify that you’re So it is not the Conservative party’s priority. But the worth it, then you shouldn’t be getting the salary.”Come mystery deepens, because the Deputy Prime Minister to think of it, why not start with the Government? I said yesterday that there were many, many other things have the ideal candidate to be the employee on the board he cared far more about. So apparently it is not his judging the Cabinet. She stands ready to serve—the hon. priority either. [Interruption.] Government Members Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries). Let us ask if it is our priority. No, it is not. I am bound to ask, remind ourselves why she is so well qualified. She said: though: if it is not a priority, how on earth did it end up “They are two arrogant posh boys who show no remorse, no in the Queen’s Speech? I thought the Queen’s Speech contrition, and no passion to understand the lives of others.” was supposed to define the priorities for the Government’s She is only saying what so many people are thinking: it legislative programme. Why is it in there? How did it get is high time the shareholder spring came to the Conservative into the speech? party. What about the things that did not make it into the On the economy, on living standards, and on executive Queen’s Speech? How about the manifesto promise—the pay— Prime Minister’s detoxification promise—to enshrine in law spending 0.7% of national income on aid. [Interruption.] They are not putting it in law. [Interruption.] Louise Mensch (Corby) (Con): The right hon. Gentleman The Prime Minister keeps saying he is doing it, when all is coming on to the economy, so, since the shadow he is doing is publishing draft Bills. And what has Chancellor cannot enlighten us, will he tell the House happened to something that used to be a big priority for how he is coming along with costing his economic the Prime Minister? He said in 2010 that lobbying was programme? “the next big scandal waiting to happen.” Edward Miliband: I am glad that the hon. Lady He was right. It did happen—to him: Adam Werritty, intervened, because this is what she said about the whose lobbying caused the downfall of the Defence election results: Secretary; Peter Cruddas, Tory party treasurer, offering 17 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 18

Downing street dinners to donors; and Fred Michel and gave up his first vocation as a Catholic priest for his the 163 pages of e-mails. Three lobbying scandals, but second, which was to serve his constituents and sit on no Bill! these Benches. He was an exceptionally kind man whose Last week, the Prime Minister applied to have prior quick wit enlivened our debates, and I know that he is access to the evidence of Leveson as a core participant. widely missed. Alan Keen served in this House for I have to say that he is one of the few people left who almost two decades and made many firm friendships on did not already think he was a core participant in the all sides of the House. He was passionate about the way whole News Corporation scandal: he hired the editor, in which sport can change young people’s lives, and his he sent the texts, he even rode the horse, and his Culture leadership of the all-party parliamentary football group Secretary backed the bid. It does not get much more is remembered with much affection. I am sure that he core than that. This is not just a Westminster story because will be looking down at the incredible months of sport it shows whose side the Prime Minister is on. What did that lie ahead over the next few months. Both Members he say to Rebekah Brooks after she was forced to resign represented the very best of this House. following revelations that Milly Dowler’s phone had I also think that the Leader of the Opposition was been hacked? We learn from the newspapers that he said: right to pay tribute in his remarks to Her Majesty the “Sorry I couldn’t have been as loyal to you as you have been to Queen. It is one of the greatest privileges of this job to me.” see Her Majesty every week to discuss what has happened That goes to the very heart of the problem with this here and across the world. In terms of service and Government and this Prime Minister: they stand up for dedication to our nation, she quite simply has no equal. the wrong people. Two years ago in the rose garden they Let me turn now to the proposer of the Gracious promised change. Yesterday in the tractor factory all Speech. When the Chief Whip phoned me and told me they could offer was more of the same. The Prime his suggestion for the role, it came as a bit of a shock. It Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister: two leaders was a slightly bad line, and I thought that he had said, out of touch with the country, out of touch even with “I’ve asked Nadine to do it.” Although I am always their own parties, locked together not on principle or ready to take it on the chin, there was a slight sense of policy but in determination to hang on to office for relief when he explained that he was talking about my another three years. So halfway through this Government hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim and particularly after last Thursday, is it not time that Zahawi) rather than my hon. and close Friend the the Government stopped governing for the few and Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries). started listening to the many? In the past, there has been a tradition that the proposer should be a shy and retiring type—the type who keeps 3.19 pm their head down, gets on with the job and loathes the The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): Let me begin, limelight. I am pleased to say that, on this occasion, as the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward that tradition has been well and truly broken. As my Miliband) did, by paying tribute to those servicemen hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon told us, who have tragically lost their lives in Afghanistan: he has a remarkable story. In the 1970s, his family fled Guardsman Michael Roland of 1st Battalion the Grenadier Iraq and the tyranny of Saddam Hussein, arriving at Guards, and Corporal Andrew Roberts and Private Heathrow with literally only the bags they carried and Ratu Silibaravi of 23 Pioneer Regiment, the Royal the clothes on their backs. But they picked themselves Logistic Corps. They acted heroically and died serving up and made an incredible future in this country. My their country, and we must always honour their memory. hon. Friend put himself through university, built a We have just finished the longest Session of Parliament business from scratch and in just one generation has for more than 100 years, and I am proud to say that made it here to Parliament. There is such a thing as the in that Session we brought down the deficit, capped British dream, and he embodies it. welfare, scrapped ID cards, introduced free schools, My hon. Friend’s name has, at times, caused confusion. accelerated academies, brought in the pupil premium, As a new Member of Parliament, he was invited to a binned the jobs tax, raised the personal allowance and dinner in honour of a delegation from Iraq, and was froze the council tax. That was just the start of clearing seated next to my predecessor but one in Witney, the up the mess left by the Labour party and demonstrating former Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd. During the that this will be a Government on the side of people main course, Lord Hurd turned to him and asked, “So, who work hard and do the right thing. Mr Zahawi, what do you do?” My hon. Friend replied, Let me say something that I hope will unite hon. “I’m a Member of Parliament,” to which Lord Hurd Members on both sides of the House. The last Session inquired, “And which constituency in Iraq do you of Parliament also made an impact not just at home but represent?” Not surprisingly, my hon. Friend replied, around the world. We fed more than 2.5 million people “Stratford-on-Avon.”His speech was in the finest traditions facing famine and starvation, we supported over 5.5 million of the House—witty, wise, entertaining and erudite. children to go to school in the poorest countries of our I praise him for what he said. world and we immunised a child against diseases every Let me turn to the seconder of the Gracious Speech. 2.5 seconds of the last parliamentary Session. And, yes, Again, when I was told the name, I was not too sure. it was in the last Session that Parliament stood up to The first things I heard were “Scottish MP” and Colonel Gaddafi, backed the action that stopped him “Gordon”—I see some nervous looks on the Opposition slaughtering his own people and showed once again Front Bench, too. I refer to one of the House’s most that when it comes to the cause of democracy, all sides distinguished Members, the right hon. Member for of this Parliament can unite in defence of freedom. Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) who, as a Liberal Democrat, As the Leader of the Opposition said, during the last takes very seriously the motto inspired by his namesake parliamentary Session we also lost two much-respected Robert the Bruce: “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try and hard-working Members of the House. David Cairns and try again”—although as he told us in his case he 19 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 20

[The Prime Minister] Andrew Selous: Does the Prime Minister agree that, given the details of the Yemen plane bomb plot, we has tried and succeeded in no fewer than seven general need to expand the range of measures available to us to elections. He lives in a charming constituency dotted combat terrorism, while also protecting our historic with the finest whisky distilleries. I want to be absolutely freedoms? clear that when he was shadow Treasury spokesman and frequently advocated extraordinary cuts in whisky The Prime Minister: I do agree with my hon. Friend duty at each and every Budget, he was speaking wholly about that. Perhaps we will come on to discuss what is in the national interest. difficult and contentious legislation on data communications; From my researches, I can tell the Whips something I know this will be debated and there will be draft else, which I hope they realise: my right hon. Friend clauses. The point I make to the House is that what we does not always respond well when people do him a are trying to do here is not to look at the content of favour. He asked—and the request was granted—the right people’s telephone calls, but to update the necessary hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Mr Kennedy) measures for finding out who called whom and when, to be best man at his wedding in 1998, and a year later because it is that information that has solved almost he stood against him for leadership of the Liberal every serious crime and certainly almost every serious Democrat party. As the Leader of the Opposition can terrorist offence. testify, things can get worse—you could, of course, be I say to people, let us of course look at the detail, let brothers. My right hon. Friend has been forthright in us of course consult, but I do not want to be the Prime his views: he has been a powerful voice for the disabled Minister standing at this Dispatch Box saying “I could and a passionate advocate of foreign aid. I hear absolutely have done more to prevent terrorist acts, but we did not what he says about a Bill for 0.7% of GDP on aid, but have the courage to take difficult steps”. Imagine, for a what I would say is that what matters most of all is that minute, what would have happened if, when mobile we reach the target in terms of the money spent. phones came along, the House had simply said “No, we Both speeches were in the very best traditions of this will stick to data communications on fixed-line phones; House, and I pay tribute to the people who gave them. we will not touch mobile phones”. If we had done that, there would be many, many unsolved cases in comparison The Gracious Speech sets out our foreign policy with what we have experienced. priorities, and the first of these is, of course, Afghanistan. Let me be clear: our troops will no longer be in a combat role beyond the end of 2014. That is our deadline Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): Will the Prime Minister and I will not waver from it. give way?

The Prime Minister: Iamhappytogivewaytomy Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): The Prime right hon. Friend. [Interruption.] Minister generously rolled out the red carpet for Mr Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the candidate of his sister party in Poland who was badly defeated. In February, the Prime Minister Keith Vaz: I am most grateful to the Prime Minister endorsed Mr Sarkozy, who was defeated on Sunday. for giving way, and I am glad that he has kept the focus Will the Prime Minister, from this Dispatch Box, endorse on Yemen. In the context of what has happened this Governor Mitt Romney—and thus ensure that the curse week, will he confirm that both London and Washington of Cameron gets President Obama re-elected? will be supporting the new Government of Yemen? The front line against terrorism is not our country, but Sana’a and Aden, and without that practical support The Prime Minister: If the right hon. Gentleman is we cannot defeat al-Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula. not careful, I might endorse him. When the Conservatives take Rotherham, modernisation will be complete. The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman is Let me tell the House that by the middle of next year entirely right, and we are supporting the new Government British forces will have shifted their focus from combat in Yemen. We are helping them with their transition, we to support in all three of the districts of Helmand for are helping to build up the Yemeni security forces, and which we are responsible: Lashkar Gah, Nad Ali and we are supporting the development of more effective Nahri Sarraj. So the Afghans will have lead responsibility state institutions. That is absolutely vital work. We will for security a full year before our troops leave their also remain focused on the challenges in Iran and Syria. combat role. When we came to that country, there was These are the critical months during which the world no one to hand over to—no proper army, no proper must deal with the threat of a nuclear-armed Iran. police force. Today we have built up the Afghan national While we take nothing off the table, we have specifically security forces and we are on track and on target for said to Israel, both publicly and privately, that the them to take over full security responsibility. option of further pressure and further sanctions on the From the outset, our approach has been hard-headed regime is the right way forward. We have led the imposition and strategic, overseen in detail by the new National of an EU oil embargo, which many believed would not Security Council I established on my first day in office. be possible, and we are ready to negotiate in good faith. The role of that council is to ask which areas of the I know that everyone in the House is appalled by the world pose the greatest threat to Britain. Just last week, violence that is taking place in Syria and frustrated that we were advised that the most immediate international we cannot do more to stop it, but I believe that the Annan terrorist threat to our country now comes not from plan of getting more observers in to stop the killing is Afghanistan, but from Yemen—and that is clearly the right answer. Today there are just 60 observers in a confirmed by the news from the US yesterday. country more than 70,000 square miles in size. We are 21 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 22 working with our allies, including the Turks and the did to the speech of the Leader of the Opposition. Did Arab League, to get hundreds more into that country to he detect anything resembling a solution to the problems stop the bloodshed. that the country faces?

Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): The Prime The Prime Minister: I listened very carefully. There Minister talks of threats to our national security. In that was almost nothing in terms of a costed, credible alternative. context, can he explain why, given the urgency of the The Opposition have now had two years to work out climate crisis that faces us, the Queen’s Speech contains what their alternative is, and we heard absolutely nothing nothing to deal with it except provision for a Green apart from a string of press releases put together, which investment bank that will still not be able to borrow, we have all read over the last few weeks. and a Bill that is likely to lock us into high-cost, high-carbon gas production? Is it because he does not Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Can the want to show climate leadership, or because he has been Prime Minister explain to the nation why he is pursuing overruled by his Chancellor? economic policies that have led to a double-dip recession and have frozen every inch of growth out of the economy? The Prime Minister: I am a bit disappointed by what the hon. Lady has said, because the Green investment The Prime Minister: As I have said, we have been bank has £3 billion to spend on green investments. This dealing with an economy that had the biggest boom is the sort of proposal that has been included in Labour and bust in our banks, the biggest deficit in Europe and manifestos, Conservative manifestos and Liberal Democrat the longest and deepest recession in anyone’s memory. manifestos for years. Now we are delivering it on the What we have to do is get our economy to rebalance, ground, and that will make a difference. and I will explain exactly how the Queen’s Speech is We should always, in this country, stand on the side going to help, because it is a Queen’s Speech for the of freedom, and we should remember that it is 30 years doers, the strivers and those who work hard and play by since our taskforce landed on the Falkland islands to the rules. defend the islanders’ right to remain British. I am sure On cutting the Budget deficit, all across Europe the that the House will join me in paying tribute to the countries being hit are the ones that do not have proper 255 British servicemen who gave their lives in the defence plans in place. In the last Session, we cut the nation’s of freedom. Three decades have not dimmed our memories overdraft—the gap between what we receive in tax and of their bravery, nor have they dimmed this country’s what we spend—by £30 billion. With this Queen’s Speech resolve. Make no mistake: for as long as the people of we continue that work with, for instance, the vital the Falkland islands wish to remain British, that is public service pensions Bill. Not only does that offer exactly how it will be. guaranteed pensions that are still more generous than Let me say exactly what this Queen’s Speech is about. those in the private sector, but it saves tens of billions of It is about a Government making the tough, long-term pounds over the coming decades. Through this Queen’s decisions to restore our country to strength—dealing Speech we are also making sure the UK is taken out of with the deficit, rebalancing the economy, and building the eurozone bail-out fund. We are not in the euro, we a society that rewards people who work hard and do the are not joining the euro, so we should not be bailing out right thing. the euro. The reason why we are doing these things on the Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): The Prime Minister deficit is simple: we want to keep interest rates down for will be aware that the Minister for Immigration said last hard-working families up and down the country. Let us week, in the wake of the election results, that the be clear: higher interest rates would mean higher mortgages, Government must start to demonstrate more competence. lower employment and more of people’s money, which Was the Prime Minister disappointed to discover yesterday they have worked so hard to get, wasted by being spent that the Deputy Prime Minister does not understand on interest on our national debt. Two years ago, Britain the difference between the debt and the deficit? had exactly the same interest rates as Spain; today, its interest rates were touching 6% and ours were below 2%. That is because we have a credible plan to get the The Prime Minister: What the Deputy Prime Minister country out of the mess it was left in by the last said yesterday, and what I said yesterday, is that we Government. inherited a deficit that was bigger than the deficits of Greece, Spain or Portugal. What we have had to do is Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) deal with that deficit, deal with the debt, and get our (Con): I am very appreciative of the Prime Minister’s country moving again. We are recovering from the mess words today.On the issue of Lords reform, the Government that the hon. Gentleman’s party left. have made long and strenuous efforts, including through We are reforming welfare so that it pays to have a job, a draft Bill, a White Paper and a Joint Committee. Does but we want to do more to reward responsibility. We are the Prime Minister share my view that since a consensus lifting 2 million people out of tax, but we want to go has not proved to be available, Lords reform cannot be further to help Britain’s strivers. We have introduced a priority now, and does he also share my view that any free schools and created more than 1,000 academies, measures presented to this House should be put to the but we want to do more to spread opportunity. That is people in a referendum? what this Queen’s Speech is about. The Prime Minister: First, let me make this point, Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): I am answering also the Leader of the Opposition: reforming sure that the Prime Minister listened as carefully as I the House of Lords is not the most important priority 23 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 24

[The Prime Minister] used it to reverse the VAT increase, to reverse the child benefit change, to reverse the tax credits change, to for the Government—that is dealing with the deficit, boost the regional growth fund, to boost capital spending getting our economy moving, increasing the level of and even to turn empty shops into community centres. responsibility in our society and getting on the side of They have no idea whatsoever about how to deal with hard-working people. Those are the things that matter this deficit. They give in to every single interest group—it the most, but I think it is perfectly possible for Parliament is the bank tax that likes to say yes from the Front to do more than two things at the same time. At the last Benchers who cannot say no. election, all political parties put forward in their manifestos proposals for a partly, or mainly, elected House of Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): May I take the Lords, but let me say this: this is only going to proceed if Prime Minister back to what he said about reform of the political parties will agree to work together and take the House of Lords? As someone who spent four years a responsible attitude towards this reform. I think it is working very co-operatively with his colleagues and the possible, and it would be a good reform if we could Liberal Democrats to find a solution, I say to him that achieve it; it would be better if we had a smaller House it is palpable that each party is divided on the issue and of Lords and if it had an elected element. So I ask work between the Front Benchers will not resolve it. It people to work together across party lines to try to is right in principle that the British people should make that happen. decide, and that would also avoid a train wreck in the business of this House. Will the Prime Minister look Sir Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough) (Lab): The Prime carefully and positively at the idea of having a pre-legislative Minister referred to the deficit in Europe, and he will referendum on reform of the Lords? recall that he declined to sign the fiscal compact entered into by 25 of the 27 EU member states. I presume he The Prime Minister: I very much respect the work—often will go to the conference on 23 May with his fellow painstaking, careful and difficult—that the right hon. leaders in Europe, who will begin working on a growth Gentleman did in a range of different roles to try to compact. Will he be prepared to sign that? move House of Lords reform on. He is absolutely right that all parties are divided on this matter—we should The Prime Minister: I want to work with everyone in be frank about that—so we will only achieve reform if Europe to try to deliver better policies for growth. That people work together. I do not believe that a pre-legislative is why we have been saying, “Let’s complete the single referendum is a good move. On the whole, that is a market in energy; let’s finish the single market in services; weapon that has been used by slightly unsavoury regimes let’s complete the single market in digital.” Those are over the years. On the question of a referendum more the things we are putting on the table. Britain is not in generally, I will merely say that every political party the euro, so we are not bound by the terms of the fiscal went into the election with a pledge to reform the pact; I have made that very clear. House of Lords so I do not personally see a referendum as having much to recommend it. The House of Commons Several hon. Members rose— can discuss this matter and the House of Commons must decide. If we are going to achieve reform, we will The Prime Minister: I will give way in a moment, but have to work together across the parties to try to deliver I want to make one point about the Leader of the what I think will be progress for our constitution—a Opposition’s response. They have had two years to work reformed and smaller House of Lords. out what their answer is. What is their answer to too much borrowing, too much spending and too much debt? Their answer is more borrowing, more spending Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) and more debt. Because the right hon. Gentleman did (Lab): The Prime Minister might be aware that I was not mention his alternative Queen’s Speech, let me go one of those who, since last July, served on the Joint straight to its centrepiece. The centrepiece of the alternative Committee that considered the future of the House Queen’s Speech is, I believe, a bonus tax to pay for a of Lords. We were not given any indication of the jobs fund. Never mind that the last Chancellor in the Government’s thinking on funding or costing. Can he Labour Government said that a bonus tax would not tell us today what costing has taken place on the proposal work; let us look at the detail. The deputy leader of the in the Queen’s Speech and will he share that with the Labour party was asked in a big set-piece interview how House? much money that would raise, and this was her response: The Prime Minister: Certainly, the cost of a stand-alone “I haven’t got quite the, er, er, I know that we have worked out that figure. I’ll have to get back to you on that.” referendum would be significant and it is worth taking that into account. She went on to say: “I haven’t got that actual figure to hand but I can absolutely Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Will assure you that Ed Balls has”. the Prime Minister take it from me, after a lot of Ah—[Interruption.] The plot thickens. The shadow canvassing last week, that many people in this country Chancellor was interviewed this weekend—I know, I are astounded that in the Queen’s Speech there is nothing need to get out more—and he said that he was sorry, about youth unemployment or providing jobs, no higher but education Bill and nothing to address the large number “I have not costed the whole programme”. of unemployed graduates we now have in this country? So there we have it. We have a deputy leader who does not have a clue and a shadow Chancellor who does The Prime Minister: The youth contract, which is not have the figures, and I can tell the House why: they going to do enormous amounts on youth unemployment, have spent their bonus tax 10 times over. They have started last month. We achieved 450,000 apprenticeships 25 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 26 last year. The Work programme is well under way now, benefit cap so that people cannot get more on benefits helping half a million people, and it is the biggest than the average family earns; there will be higher tax back-to-work programme in this country since the 1930s. thresholds so that hard-working families keep more of Let me explain that there are a number of important their money; and our pensions Bill, announced in the measures in this Queen’s Speech to promote growth and Queen’s Speech, is set to deliver a £140 basic state jobs. As well as the Work programme and the youth pension that will massively reduce means-testing and contract, we have the national loan guarantee scheme, reward those who work hard and save hard all their with £20 billion to get cheaper loans flowing to small lives. businesses. The most important work of the Government is implementing all those schemes and programmes, but Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): Was the we must do more to rebalance our economy. It is clear Prime Minister as disappointed as I was that the Leader what went wrong. The public sector grew too large, our of the Opposition again refused to support the benefits economy became unbalanced between north and south cap, which is already at a level above the average wage and we ended up too dependent on financial services. of people in Great Yarmouth who work hard? Will So we know what we need to do as a country. We must my right hon. Friend confirm that the Government will revive the private sector, spread growth and jobs across continue to make sure that it will always pay to work? the country and make sure that financial services truly serve the economy—not the other way around. The Prime Minister: I have to say that this was about To expand the private sector we need to cut the the only interesting point in the Leader of the Opposition’s burdens on business and make it easier for employers to speech. When he is asked very clearly whether he supports take people on. That is in our enterprise Bill. To make a benefit cap and whether he thinks it is right that the most of growth in the energy sector, including gas, people can get more than £26,000 a year on benefits, his nuclear and renewables, we need to reform the energy answer is that it is just fine—carry on claiming. That is market, and that is what the energy Bill will do. To Labour’s message to the hard-working people of this make the most of green investment, we need to legislate country. properly for the Green investment bank, with £3 billion of money in its coffers. That will be done through the As the Leader of the Opposition covered so little of measures announced in the Queen’s Speech as well. the detail, for the benefit of the House I want to run through some of the Bills in the Queen’s Speech and the Another key issue is the need to clean up the financial steps we are taking. One thing we are doing is helping system, and I have to say to the shadow Chancellor, the most vulnerable of all in our society—children who who sat and did nothing while the financial sector do not have a family, who are stuck in the care system melted down, that he ought to focus on this part of the and who, in too many cases, have been left there for too Queen’s Speech. As the Governor of the Bank of England long. That is why we are legislating on adoption, as set said last week, there are three vital steps to take, and we out in this Gracious Speech. We are going to publish will be taking all of them: proper regulation at last by detailed information on how councils perform, setting the Bank of England, the banks being made to hold clear time limits for cases to get through the courts and enough capital to keep them safe, and a regime that making it illegal to turn down an adoptive family on the means that if they do fail they can fail without the basis of race. We say it is time to end the patronising, taxpayer picking up the bill. Those are all things that politically correct prejudice that says that black parents the shadow Chancellor never did when he was the City cannot bring up white children and that white parents Minister. cannot bring up black children. It is time to make the system colour blind. Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ Co-op): The right hon. Gentleman talks about supporting small and medium-sized businesses, but the loan guarantee Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): Given the recent scheme is a very small drop in the ocean, because the scandals that have engulfed the Government, why is a banks simply will not lend to small businesses in my lobbying Bill not included in the Queen’s Speech? constituency.If they will not lend at the current percentages, they will not lend at lower percentages. That is the The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman’s party had problem. When will he wake up to the fact that Operation 13 years to produce a register of lobbyists. We have now Merlin did not wave a magic wand and did not work? published our proposals for a register of lobbyists and we will legislate for a register of lobbyists. [Interruption.] The Prime Minister: I make two points to the hon. I hate to add to hon. Members’ misery, but we have a Lady. First, she may not believe that the national loan Queen’s Speech for the 2012-13 Session that is packed guarantee scheme is big enough, but it is £20 billion of with great Bills and we will have one for the 2013-14 lending. That is far bigger than anything contemplated Session that is packed with great Bills. We will also have by the previous Government. Secondly, the Merlin one for the 2014-15 Session that is packed with great agreement did secure additional lending to big and Bills, and when we have beaten the rabble in opposition small businesses; lending went up. As ever, the shadow at the next election, we will have another one all over Chancellor is wrong. again. As well as introducing vital measures such as banking reform and the Financial Services Bill, the Government’s Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): mission is to help families who work hard and do the Another group of vulnerable people are the 800,000 who right thing. We have cut fuel duty and frozen council tax struggle without care and the millions of over-burdened and we are lifting 2 million people out of tax. In the carers. They will be disappointed if not angry that there coming months people will see more. There will be a is no Bill in this Session, as promised, to legislate for a 27 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 28

[Barbara Keeley] who was under the influence of drugs, I thank the Prime Minister for meeting them at No. 10, listening to new financial framework, so they will have to struggle what they had to say and including in the Queen’s on. What does the Prime Minister say to those vulnerable Speech measures to tackle the menace of drug driving. people? Will he join me in paying tribute to Gary and Natasha for responding to a personal tragedy by trying to make The Prime Minister: It is vital that we take action on it less likely that other people endure the terrible loss social care. That is why there are proposals for a draft they suffered? Bill in the Queen’s Speech. It is something that has been getting worse for decade. The previous Government The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is entirely right had 13 years to deal with the issue and they did absolutely to raise the case again. I pay tribute to his work. We will nothing. Within two years, we are producing proposals be legislating properly for drug-related driving. It is and a draft Bill, and taking action. right that it is put on to the statute book in the same way as drink driving, and it would not be happening Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): Does my were it not for the very strong campaign he has fought. right hon. Friend agree that it is essential that we have The context for the Queen’s Speech is a world that is all-party support for this critically important issue? It is becoming ever more competitive. The countries that essential to have a draft Bill so that we do the hard work succeed will be those that know they have to deal with in this Parliament to make sure that we can legislate for debts and deficit, and that in a competitive world they carers in our country. have to have competitive tax rates and the best climate for business investment. They have to back entrepreneurs. The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a very They need light regulation and lean government. They good point. Genuinely to crack the issue, which has need to reform every part of government, from schools dogged Governments for decades, we will need cross-party to the planning system, so that they get on the side of working to deliver the social care changes we need. wealth creation, job creation and a growing economy. Let me turn to some of the crime measures, as they That is what we are doing. are extremely important. The police do a fantastic job, This is a Government who confront the long-term and we should pay tribute to their work, but we need to challenges we face, and that is what our country needs—a accept that there are some crimes that our existing Government who roll up their sleeves to deal with the police forces cannot deal with on their own: the cyber- deficit, not an Opposition who think they can borrow attacks that threaten our national security, the organised their way out of debt. We are a coalition Government gangs supplying drugs to children on the streets and the determined to unleash the private sector, spread growth massive industry of human trafficking. Today, we have around our country and sort out our financial services, seen the horrific case in Rochdale of children being not a Labour one who bloated the public sector and sat groomed for sex—modern-day slavery in our own country. back while an unregulated banking sector brought our That is why we need a national crime agency—a British country to its knees. This is a Government who are FBI, if you like—and with this Queen’s Speech we will backing hard-working people, not an Opposition who deliver it. say they are on their side but refuse to make work pay, I want to see tough community sentences that are a refuse to cap welfare and want to heap debts on to our real punishment, and we shall be legislating for them as children. This is a Government taking the tough decisions well. Without such measures, we will never convince the to help families who work hard and do the right thing. police, the courts or the public that these sentences are We are acting for the long term and governing in the proper alternatives to prison. national interest. This is a Queen’s Speech to rebuild Britain, and I commend it to the House. Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): The Prime Minister has mentioned a couple of doubles today. He 3.55 pm quite rightly referred to the mover and the seconder of Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab):All hon. Members the speech; there was also the double-dip recession. will have spent the past few weeks and months knocking In 1970, Lynn Anderson sang about promises in a on doors and will recognise that this Queen’s Speech is rose garden: hugely important for many families across our country. “Smile for a while and let’s be jolly Also, many in this House who are baby boomers—that does not include our current political leaders—and have Love shouldn’t be so melancholy benefited from free education, affordable housing and Come along and share the good times while we can.” pretty good pensions will recognise that for those of Given that the Prime Minister and his Deputy made younger generations, many of whom are currently promises of transparency in the rose garden, does he unemployed, this is a critical Queen’s Speech. It is now regret not releasing the risk register for the NHS? against that backdrop that I wish to make my comments. I will start by welcoming the aspects of the Queen’s The Prime Minister: In terms of the money we spend Speech that deal with family policy. It is absolutely right and the decisions we make, this Government have been that we do something to support the many families in the most transparent in our country for the last 50 years. this country struggling with children with disabilities. That is what matters. Frankly, it is poor that successive Governments have not done enough, so I am pleased to welcome changes Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): On behalf in that area of policy. Love is a key ingredient for any of my constituents Gary and Natasha Groves, whose parent raising a child, and the hearts of all Members of daughter Lillian was killed outside her home by a driver the House must go out to young people who find 29 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 30 themselves in circumstances in which they do not have are unemployed and 28,000 are on out-of-work benefits. parents. For that reason, it must be wrong that children The figures have actually got worse since the riots, and, from black and ethnic minority backgrounds languish although I have heard him at the Dispatch Box speaking in local authority queues waiting for adoptive parents. about the Work programme, the youth contract and As the parent of two children from a mixed-race apprenticeships, I find that in all three policies there are background, I know that such children fare particularly weaknesses and flaws. badly on those adoption lists. I welcome the changes The Work programme is straining at the edges, that will make it easier for parents of any background particularly with the third sector attempting without to adopt young people in need of a loving home. funds to provide placements, and in Tottenham 90% of those who are unemployed are not eligible for it. How Mr Edward Timpson (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): I can it be the biggest programme since the 1930s, when join the right hon. Gentleman in welcoming wholeheartedly most people who are unemployed in Britain are not the measures to try to improve adoption in this country eligible to participate in it? While the right hon. Gentleman for children from all backgrounds. Does he agree that it lauds the youth contract, I warn him of a previous era, is also important not to forget that there are children when we saw the failed youth training scheme and, as a who are brought into the care systems who might have consequence, many young people who graduated with other permanency solutions to their upbringing that certificates but no jobs. People in my constituency have might involve long-term fostering or residential care a long memory, and what they want are genuine jobs. and that we must also do more for those children to ensure that they do not miss out on the best possible As a former skills Minister, I am pleased to see the childhood we can give them? growth in apprenticeships, but the right hon. Gentleman will know that the scheme, to reach the figure of 450,000, includes many that people would not recognise as an Mr Lammy: The hon. Gentleman makes an important apprenticeship. An apprenticeship should surely be a point about foster care and the need to support the programme that lasts for at least one year. Currently, many people across this country who give up their apprenticeships last for a maximum of 16 weeks, and homes and time and offer love to the many children many young people do not want something that is, who pass through their homes. in fact, a very short opportunity in customer services May I also say, as chair of the all-party group on dressed up as a genuine apprenticeship, so I ask the Prime fatherhood, that it is important that in this House, on a Minister to look at what is behind such apprenticeships cross-party basis, we make a renewed commitment to if we are genuinely to retain the trust of young people. the importance of fatherhood? I also welcome the changes I and other Opposition Members will of course scrutinise to care proceedings. If it is right and in the interests of a the enterprise Bill in its entirety, but, when I think of child, we must make it easier for fathers to have contact those shopkeepers on Tottenham high road who saw with their children. It is now well understood that the their businesses destroyed, I recall, as will the Prime outcomes for young people without fathers are not Minister, that they faced hardships even before the riots. good enough. In parts of this country and in parts of There were hardships with business rates and with constituencies such as mine there is the phenomenon of footfall on the high road, and they were concerned the “baby-father”, whereby it is acceptable to have about issues such as regulation—2,900 of them in the children but not be a father to them, and I welcome any Tottenham constituency, paying their VAT and employing moves in legislation to deal with that issue. 30,000 people. Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): I pay The number of self-employed people in my constituency tribute to the right hon. Gentleman’s courageous stance has fallen from 14% to 7% in the past year. It is going in on many of those issues over the years. Does he echo the wrong direction. I warn him that his absolute dedication my view that we should also pay tribute to the love, care to slashing public services is having a major effect in and courage of grandparents and extended kin, and adding to the dole queues in constituencies such as mine. that we should remove the impediments that they have We are not seeing more businesses flourishing or to caring for their flesh and blood, owing to various coming in and taking up the slack from the public sector; difficult circumstances involving their own children, we are seeing something much worse. Look underneath including drug and alcohol abuse? the figures. The whole House should have serious concerns about anyone—young people, particularly—who faces Mr Lammy: The hon. Gentleman has taken up those unemployment. However, when the unemployment rate issues in his constituency, and I too underline my support is three times higher among young black men, we for grandparents, particularly given the complexities should be gravely concerned. within families of drug and alcohol addiction. We should also be particularly concerned that many But in the end the critical issues for most people, in women—older women, often black—are now joining relation to this Queen’s Speech and over the coming their sons on the unemployment queues, having been years, will be the reality that we are in a double-dip employed in the health service, local government or other recession, will be what we are doing to get to grips with areas. I say to the Prime Minister that some communities growth in this country, to provide jobs and to support depend on those mothers being employed and I am small businesses, and will be how we are supporting worried about the emergence of a picture worse than young people. I am afraid that there has just not been some of the scenes that hon. Members will recognise enough in this Queen’s Speech to address those issues. from the United States of America. I do not have to tell the Prime Minister what happened That is why we needed a Queen’s Speech that would in my constituency, as we have spoken on many occasions, seriously address those issues—stimulate the economy but I say to him that currently in Tottenham 6,500 people in the way required; wrestle with the issue of growth; 31 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 32

[Mr Lammy] reform, including labour law reform. He will be happy to hear me mention those, but I am afraid that it goes and move our economy from over-dependence on financial downhill from here on in. [HON.MEMBERS: “That was services and retail. When I heard the Business Secretary less than a minute!”] Well, I will make up the whole arguing the case for the Sunday trading Bill, it was minute by saying that the Government can be proud of again apparent that the Government would rely once most of their record in the past couple of years on the more on retail, consumerism, shopping and spending to issues of liberty and justice, which the Prime Minister get us out of this mess. We will need far more than that knows I hold very dear. Their actions on identity cards, in this economy if we are to respond to the problems in on cutting down on the amount of detention without constituencies such as mine. charge, and on the misuse of counter-terrorism stop-and- What about the gaps in the Queen’s Speech? Given search powers are all matters of pride for them. the importance of higher education to the UK economy Beyond that, however, I have three concerns: one and all we have invested to support young people making about a constitutional issue, one about state power, and their way to university, why have the Government decided one about justice. Let me start with the constitutional that a higher education Bill is not appropriate? The issue on which the right hon. Member for Tottenham issue has been kicked into the long grass. Vice-chancellors finished—the House of Lords. One of my concerns and young people face uncertainty because we have not about our whole approach to the House of Lords is that seen any Bill in that area of policy at all. Why are we we are arguing about its composition without worrying going to spend hours, in this House and the other place, enough about its purpose, which we have not done debating House of Lords reform when every Member enough to consider. There is a great deal of talk about knows that no one raised that issue with any political the House of Lords as a revising and reforming Chamber, party on the doorstep during the campaign of the past but it has a much greater function than that. Historically, few weeks? Is House of Lords reform really where our the House of Lords has been a serious check on excessive priorities should be? Executive power. It was a check on the Government of Margaret Thatcher when she had a very large majority, Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): Does the on the Government of Tony Blair, and on the Government right hon. Gentleman agree that the whole matter of of the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath House of Lords reform could be dealt with quickly in (Mr Brown), and no doubt it will be a check on this this House if, as the Prime Minister said a short while Government as time goes on. ago, the Government brought forward a Bill that simply It is very important in Britain that we have this check, brought the House of Lords into the 21st century because we are different in one respect from most other without trying to create another House of Commons at democracies. Without any separation of Executive and the other end of the corridor? legislature, the power of the Executive in this House Mr Lammy: I get where the hon. Lady is coming means that this House is less good than it could be at from, but I want to bring the Government into the defending the rights of individuals when the Executive 21st century. For that to happen, we need some real impinge too much on them. We saw that very often with answers for the millennial generation who face decades the previous Government. There were a great number of unemployment in this country.We have to say something of occasions when I am sure that many Labour Members about what we can expect for our graduates; we must did not want to support some of their Government’s not just talk the talk in terms of families, but recognise more illiberal actions. That is why the House of Lords is that the cost of living is going up, and we expect a incredibly important. Queen’s Speech that will address those issues. Mr Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood) (Con): My right Against that backdrop, this Queen’s Speech fails. I hon. Friend is making a case from a Conservative point suspect that there are areas that the Opposition will be of view against reforming the make-up of the House of able to accept, but there are many holes in this Queen’s Lords. If the House of Lords has the distinguished Speech. As the Prime Minister reflects and gets into the record of preventing excessive use of Executive power detail, I hope that the House can expect a bigger, more that he is suggesting, why does he think that Margaret ambitious and more visionary legislative framework in Thatcher’s first Lord Chancellor, Lord Hailsham, delivered the next Queen’s Speech. a speech roughly 50 years ago in which he said that we did not have sufficient checks and balances in our 4.9 pm constitution, which he characterised as an elective Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): It dictatorship? is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy). While I may differ with his Mr Davis: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, analysis, there is never any doubt that he holds his views because he goes right to the central point. The House of passionately. He certainly supports his constituency Lords is not perfect, and there are many things that it and community passionately, and has done so in the has wrongly allowed to happen. I am in favour of past several years in which I have watched him in this reform of the House of Lords, but we must be very House. careful to get it right. If, in our reform, we do away with, Let me say to the Prime Minister that it is also a or weaken or mitigate to any great extent, the check that pleasure to talk about the real Queen’s Speech as against it provides, that check will never be returned, because the one that I and others proposed last week. This no Government will ever bring back a restraint on their Queen’s Speech has enormous merits to it, particularly own powers. in the context of growth. I am particularly supportive, I think it was the Deputy Prime Minister who as he will be unsurprised to hear, of his proposals on characterised his preferred state of the House of Lords bank reforms, competition law, and joint enterprise law as being one that more reflected the political composition 33 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 34 of the House of Commons. That is precisely what I The second issue that I want to mention is state would not want it to do. A House of Lords that exactly power and what has become known colloquially as the reflected the political composition of the House of snooper’s charter. The Queen’s Speech stated that the Commons would not be very much of a check on the Government intended Executive, and that would be a really serious problem. “to bring forward measures to maintain the ability of the law We must be very careful about what we do. enforcement and intelligence agencies to access vital communications I do not believe that a referendum, of itself, will solve data under strict safeguards to protect the public, subject to the problem, because it is a subtle and difficult matter scrutiny of draft clauses.” and will be very hard to argue in public. However, it is I take the last part to mean that how it will happen is up very important. for argument. That is a good thing, because I am afraid the proposal is very similar to what the Labour Government Mrs Laing: I agree with my right hon. Friend that came up with. I will give way to the Deputy Prime providing a check on the Government is Parliament’s Minister if he really wants to argue the point, but I do most important role. Does he agree that having an not recommend it, because the Government have already elected House of Lords would undermine the position consulted heavily with internet service providers and of the elected Members of the House of Commons and producers and talked to them about what they want to make them less likely to be able to hold the Government do. They want to require companies to maintain large to account in this House, where the Prime Minister sits? databases of contact information. If I have telephoned somebody, there will be information about who the call was to, when it was made and where from. That will Mr Davis: I take my hon. Friend’s point, although I lead to extremely large databases, which the state then believe the greater problem would be legislative gridlock wants to be able to access relatively freely. if too much legitimacy were given to the House of Lords. The simple fact is that over the course of the past Frankly, I am surprised that the Government have century, these Houses have managed a pretty effective made the proposal, because both coalition parties opposed balance without crippling government. The position it in opposition, and as far as I can see, it goes against that we have arrived at still needs reform, but very the thrust of the coalition agreement. It certainly goes careful reform. against the thrust of a comment that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made when we were in opposition. Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I agree with the right He said: hon. Gentleman that we have to consider two things “Faced with any problem, any crisis—given any excuse—Labour hand in hand, the composition of the House of Lords grasp for more information, pulling more and more people into and its function. Although I am passionately in favour the clutches of state data capture…And the Government doesn’t want to stop with the basic information…Scare tactics to herd of an elected second Chamber, one of my criticisms of more disempowered citizens into the clutches of officialdom, as the draft Bill is that clause 2 will not reinforce the people surrender more and more information about their lives, primacy of this Chamber. Some kind of concordat giving the state more and more power over their lives. If we want would have to be agreed by both Houses and written to stop the state controlling us, we must confront this surveillance into their Standing Orders. Does he accept, though, state.” that the current situation is unsustainable? We already We opposed those measures in opposition, not just have far too many Members down the other end of the because they were illiberal or risked turning our country building, and if there is no reform, there will be another into a nation of suspects, but because we believed that 200. There will be more than 1,000 Members, the vast they were ineffective. Nearly every measure that we majority of them appointed by party leaders on a party opposed when I was my right hon. Friend’s shadow Whip. Surely that is unsustainable. Home Secretary we opposed because we thought that it would not work against terrorism. That is also true of Mr Davis: I agree with the last point, but the hon. the measure that we are considering. Gentleman should not let the best be the enemy of the I took advice from experts. I asked them a simple good. question: “If you were a terrorist, how would you avoid I will finish my points about the Lords, because I this scrutiny?” I stopped them when they got to the fifth want to talk about two other significant issues of justice method. It is pretty straightforward: for terrorists, everything and freedom. For me, the test is to look back and see from proxy servers to one-off mobile phones means what would have happened in the past decade if we had that such scrutiny is easy to avoid. For criminals, it is introduced whatever new reform we will come up with. also easy and quite cheap to avoid. However, for ordinary As the Deputy Prime Minister will be only too conscious, citizens, that scrutiny is not easy and cheap to avoid. We in the past decade the Lords have stopped the curbing will therefore create something, which some Ministers of jury trials and a number of other measures, including said will cost £2 billion—the London School of Economics the extension of detention without charge. That would suggests that it will cost £12 billion—that will not be not have happened if we had had too politically similar effective against terrorism, but constitutes general-purpose a House of Lords. When the House considers the surveillance of the entire nation. matter in some detail, my test will be whether a reform will achieve the same check on the Government. Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): Sometimes terrorists make a mistake. If we save lives through having the John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Will the information, that balances my right hon. Friend’s argument. right hon. Gentleman give way? Mr Davis: The simple truth is that when the House Mr Davis: I want to move on, but I will give way later reacted understandably to the horrific events of 9/11 if the hon. Gentleman still wishes to intervene. and the preceding terrorist events, such as the USS Cole 35 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 36

[Mr David Davis] with too many polls and focus groups—that an injustice against one is an injustice against all, and the secret and the east African embassy bombings, and introduced court proposals undoubtedly propose an injustice. a couple of measures: the Regulation of Investigatory I say that with complete confidence, but for a rather Powers Act 2000 and the Anti-terrorism, Crime and obscure reason. A secret court procedure is proposed, Security Act 2001, it took away many previous protections. but we already have such procedures. They are called Before RIPA, the agencies would approach British Telecom special immigration appeal courts—SIAC—and they or Cable & Wireless and ask for the data, which were have existed since 1997, when the Labour Government sometimes—not always—handed over voluntarily. The introduced them to deal with people they thought they companies exercised some responsibility. In about two could not deal with in open court. Of course, no hon. thirds of cases, the agencies got warrants, and the Member has ever been in one or seen one in operation. information had to be handed over. The central, though No hon. Member knows how they work, including all not the only issue is whether the databases are available Ministers of this Government and the previous one. to the agencies of the state without a warrant. They are currently available without a warrant. If we want to One group alone understands how those courts work: make such practices acceptable in a civilised, liberal special advocates. There are 69 special advocates, of state, we should have warrants first. whom 32 have had detailed exposure to the proposed closed material procedure. The procedure involves the Executive—a Minister—saying to a court: “This Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): As a Liberal information can be heard only in very close camera.” It Democrat, but also as the MP for Cheltenham, I ask the cannot be heard in court as a whole in secret: the judge right hon. Gentleman whether he agrees that it should and the Government advocate of the argument can be possible to strike a perfectly good balance between hear the evidence, but only the special advocate—a the absolute need to protect civil liberties and traditional lawyer who cannot talk to the defendant or litigant in British freedoms and apply the principles behind the the case—can challenge it. existing legislation that he mentioned to new and fast- developing technologies to prevent our security services Tony Baldry: We had a system of special advocates in from falling behind. courts in Northern Ireland for a very long time—a number of members of my chambers were special advocates Mr Davis: Of course, but frankly, talk about falling in such circumstances—and I do not recall my right behind is a bit of a red herring. The security services hon. Friend when we were in government ever complaining today can collect more data by several orders of magnitude about those procedures, which we had to use in Northern than they could when I first became a Member of Ireland given the particular circumstances there. Parliament, simply because technology allows that. In 1987, one pretty much had to get a BT engineer to plug Mr Davis: I am sorry to correct my hon. Friend’s in a bug in the local exchange. People do not do that memory, but I did complain. I actually appeared in a now—they could almost do it from my office through Diplock court as a witness, so I know exactly how they software. I could listen to all hon. Members at once— work from that point of view. [Interruption.] Hon. Members’ conversations are too boring to bother with. The simple truth is not my view, but the view of the 32 special advocates who have had such experience. Of course, the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Virtually all of them signed a document that challenged Horwood) is right and there is a balance to strike. No the Government’s Green Paper, in quite robust terms. one has ever been foolish enough to suggest that I The special advocates said that closed material procedures favour helping terrorists, making it easier for them or “represent a departure both from the principle of natural justice harder for our agencies. However, we must act under and from the principle of open justice. They may leave a litigant judicial control and return to the prior warrant process having little clear idea of the case deployed against him, and that applied before RIPA for the systems to work. ultimately they may prevent some litigants from knowing why they have won or lost. Furthermore, and crucially, because the SA appointed on his behalf is unable to take instructions in relation Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): Will my right hon. to that case, they may leave the SA with little realistic opportunity Friend give way? of responding effectively to that case. They also systematically exclude public, press and Parliamentary scrutiny of parts of our Mr Davis: No, I am about to finish that part of my justice system…Our experience as SAs involved in statutory and non-statutory closed material procedures leaves us in no doubt speech. The prior warrant process would ensure that we that CMPs are inherently unfair; they do not ‘work effectively’, stop the great overuse of the new powers, which has nor do they deliver real procedural fairness. The fact that such happened dozens of times in the past decade. If we do procedures may be operated so as to meet the minimum standards not, the public reaction will be one of outrage, because required by Article 6 of the ECHR, with such modification as has the measure will affect not just a few people, but tens of been required by the courts so as to reduce that inherent unfairness, millions of people, and they will not take it quietly. does not and cannot make them objectively fair.” My last point is on a justice measure, but it is not a That is the view of the only people who understand this measure like the snooper’s charter, which will create a system. tsunami of reaction as it goes through the House—I am The secret courts measure is being held up as a confident of that, because we already have 137,000 proposal to improve our security. It would undermine signatures on the online petition. Secret courts affect and corrode our justice system, and it would not improve only tens and perhaps hundreds of people, but they our security, because the other point made by special bring against those people a serious injustice. I take the advocates is that the public interest immunity system as view—a very unfashionable one in modern politics, it now stands—again this is not properly understood by 37 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 38

Ministers—works perfectly well, and much better than Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): Banking reform what is proposed. Indeed, one special advocate has is important for the United Kingdom as a whole but pointed out that this proposal is less good than that especially important for Northern Ireland. We have a available to the terrorist suspects in Guantanamo Bay. dysfunctional banking system, because so many banks That is how poor this procedure is. In fact, there are have been caught up with bad property loans and so on. many other procedures abroad that would work better Does my right hon. Friend agree with me and people in than this one. Sadly, this is not a measure that I will Northern Ireland that the Government need to focus support in the coming months. more on how measures to ease banking will affect The Government came in with a grand, important banks in Northern Ireland and ensure that we get our and liberal—both small “l” and big “l”—tradition to fair share of credit easing and so on? uphold. That tradition supported both freedom and justice in this country. These two measures—putting the Mr Dodds: As Minister for Finance and Personnel in Lords to one side, as that is a matter for argument—would, the Northern Ireland Executive, my hon. Friend deals if we are not very careful, undermine that tradition and with such issues on a daily basis, and he and his colleagues, our reputation, and do nothing to improve the protection including Arlene Foster, the enterprise Minister, and of Britain against terrorism. Indeed, just the reverse—they others are working hard to deal with them. He points, would make it worse. rightly, to the particular issues in Northern Ireland. Two of our banks are based in the Irish Republic. The 4.31 pm property collapse in the Irish Republic and its eurozone Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I am pleased problems are impacting strongly on the Northern Ireland to follow the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and economy. He is right, therefore, that particular attention Howden (Mr Davis). He has eloquently set out the needs to be given to how credit easing plays through to arguments on the balance between the need to protect Northern Ireland, where we have peculiar circumstances national security and the need to protect individual that do not affect other parts of the UK. freedoms. He mentioned internet surveillance and my One reason we have been pushing strongly—we have party will look closely at the proposals and support received a reasonably warm response—on the need to whatever measures are necessary to protect national reduce corporation tax in Northern Ireland is that we security, but we will also be conscious of the need to share a land frontier with the Irish Republic, which has protect individual freedoms and privacies. That means a much lower rate of corporation tax. I look forward to not giving the Government any more powers than are an announcement on that and other issues in this Session absolutely and strictly necessary in the fight against and perhaps to legislation in the next Session. terrorism, but if powers are thought to be absolutely We welcome the emphasis on cutting business regulation. necessary, we would be remiss if we did not proceed to The Business Secretary’s remarks yesterday about the implement them. need to roll back the EU regulatory burden were also At the outset, I join others in paying tribute to Her most welcome. We also support moves on executive pay. Majesty the Queen in her diamond jubilee year. We in The recent revolts by shareholders in companies such Northern Ireland look forward to her coming to the as Aviva and Barclays brought cheer to hard-working Province later this summer, and I have no doubt that she families, but more needs to be done to empower will be welcomed as warmly as she has been on previous shareholders through binding votes on pay at the top visits. level. Such measures matter to people out there in the I also wish to join the Prime Minister and other right country, and they want action taken on them. That is hon. and hon. Members in paying tribute to the service where the focus needs to be. in the two years of this Parliament of our brave servicemen We welcome the fact that driving under the influence and women in theatres of conflict abroad and in the of drugs will become a specific offence with appropriate work that they do to protect us all here in this country punishment. I have received communication on that and in the fight against terrorism. issue, as other right hon. and hon. Members will have, I welcome several measures in the Queen’s Speech. and although this measure will be of little comfort to The briefing that went on before the Gracious Speech those who have already lost family members in tragic referred to a greater focus on family-friendly measures. circumstances—we have heard some very brave people My party welcomes measures to support and strengthen speaking in the media about this—it will, I hope, prevent families and family life, such as speedier adoption and more deaths and injuries on our roads in the future. help for parents of children with disabilities to cut through red tape. We will support such measures, because Likewise, I welcome the much-needed groceries code strong families are important and supporting them is adjudicator Bill. It will be warmly welcomed by farmers key. The Government have been slow so far to implement and other suppliers in my part of the world—not necessarily tax allowance changes for married couples, which were in my constituency, because at last count only three in the Conservative manifesto and the coalition agreement. farmers were living within its boundaries, but in Northern We look forward to their coming forward with proposals Ireland, which is largely a rural area, it will be warmly in that area in due course. welcomed. We also welcome the banking reform Bill, which will split the retail and investment sides of businesses. That Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): I, too, is overdue, it is good news for consumers and will help much support the groceries code adjudicator Bill. If to protect them, and so will receive our support. There there is no problem with how our big buyers and are issues with the speed of implementation—we would supermarkets use their muscle, they will have nothing like the reforms to happen a little quicker—but we will to fear from the adjudicator. It will be a check and come to that during the debate on the Bill. balance. 39 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 40

Mr Dodds: Absolutely, but the adjudicator must have Mr Dodds: The hon. Lady puts forward an important teeth. We look forward to hearing the details as they issue for our consideration. Many of the banks are come forward. However, if that and other measures we largely owned by the public at the moment. One leading have talked about are implemented, they will receive business man in Northern Ireland told me recently that broad welcome. he regretted that we had not gone the whole way and Having said that, I want to come to several areas on taken complete control of the banks, to ensure that all which I disagree with the Government. Some relate to the necessary lending could take place. Members of issues that were in the Queen’s Speech, but some relate the public, taxpayers, ordinary hard-working families, to matters that were not. The verdict on the Gracious individuals and businesses are pumping billions of pounds Speech must be that, although it contains useful measures into the banking system, yet the banks are not doing that we will support, overall it lacks substance in heavy- what needs to be done to ease credit and lend in the way weight measures to deal with the big issue confronting that they should. us. There is to be a measure on House of Lords reform. I was talking about House of Lords reform, and Many people call me or come to my constituency office, other Members have rightly raised issues that are of real but few, if any, have ever raised that issue with me. Even concern to the people and the communities that they in these days of e-mails, Twitter and Facebook, very represent. Before we get on to the reform of the House little of our correspondence relates to the matter. of Lords, I would like to see this House deal with an There are, however, many issues on which I get a large issue relating to the House of Commons. The Prime amount of e-mails and other correspondence. People Minister and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland are concerned about our net contribution to the European said on record during the last Session that they believe Union, for example. They are worried about the cost of that it is wrong that Members who do not take their implementing regulations from Brussels. They are angry seats in the House of Commons are still able to receive about our inability to reject unwanted EU law, and they full expenses, allowances and representational moneys, want Parliament to be able to decide on behalf of the which puts them in a much more advantageous position people of the United Kingdom what our laws should be, than those of us who do take our seats. Sinn Fein, for who we should have in our country and who we should instance, gets the equivalent of parliamentary Short be able to deport. Those are the issues that people raise money—what is called representative money—and is with Members of Parliament all the time. They might free to spend it, not on parliamentary activities, of not be the issues that Members want to face up to, but course, because they do not engage in any parliamentary unless we face up to the concerns that people raise on a activities, but on party political activities. Whereas we daily basis, we shall become ever more disconnected as right hon. and hon. Members would rightly be called from the people we are supposed to represent. to account by the authorities for any spending—even a penny’s worth—for party political purposes, a group of Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab): A couple of weeks Members who do not take their seats are quite free to ago, some small business owners from my constituency spend that money to the disadvantage of their political came down to see me. They talked about the difficulties opponents. Let us be frank: it does not particularly relating to bank lending and to the high rate of VAT. affect our votes, but it affects those of others in the Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that they will take House who are not here today and no doubt can speak little comfort from what has been said in today’s Queen’s for themselves in due course. The fact is that Members Speech? who do not take their seats are given an enormous advantage. Mr Dodds: I agree with the hon. Lady. I shall come to We know that back in 2001, Betty Boothroyd, the the issue of VAT shortly, as people have raised that with former great Speaker of the House, resisted all this for a me. VAT and fuel costs are of real concern to them. The long time. Ultimately, the decision was taken to proceed hon. Lady also mentioned banking. It is clear that a real with the concessions because the then Labour Government problem for economic growth in this country is that said—it was bitterly opposed by Conservative Members— many viable businesses that have a future and an order that it was important to bring people into the peace book and that can trade are having to deal with banks process and the political process. Whatever the arguments that are moving the goalposts on lending conditions at that time, the fact of the matter is that there is no and what they require businesses to pay. They often do longer any need for this special category of expenditure that at short notice, having agreed on a programme of on the basis of encouraging people to be part of the repayments and interest rates only a few months previously. peace process. It is clear that people are involved in the Suddenly, the goalposts are moved and the businesses Executive and in the Assembly at Stormont. I welcome are bereft of any means of continuing. They are forced that, and think it enormously to the credit of parties in into liquidation and into laying people off. Much more this House and in Northern Ireland that progress has needs to be done about the lack of bank lending to been made, but it would not make the slightest difference businesses, because that is strangling a great deal of the to the political process—nobody believes that it would—if potential growth in our economy. these special arrangements were withdrawn in line with what was promised before the election and in the last Meg Hillier: Does the right hon. Gentleman agree parliamentary Session. that the fact that banks have become so far removed from the communities that they serve is causing some of these challenges? There is agreement across the House Bob Stewart: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for on the need for reform of the banking system. Would he giving way. I want entirely to endorse every single point welcome more mutualisation in the banking sector, and he has made on the matter of Short money for people does he share my regret that that does not appear in the who do not take their seats in this House. Those days Gracious Speech? are over; let us get this sorted out. 41 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 42

Mr Dodds: I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s true today. The VAT increases have added considerably support. What I am proposing does not require legislation, to the cost of living, but I do not believe that VAT has so I did not necessarily expect it to be reflected in the been used to help stimulate the economy. Queen’s Speech today, but I look forward to steps being Businesses are facing extreme pressures as a result of taken in this Session to tackle this long overdue issue. bank lending policies and credit tightening. The Greek I want to come to another issue on which we have not and French elections have taken place in recent days, received many demands for legislation, but about which and the results have shown a desire to move away from we have heard many complaints and expressions of nothing but austerity to an emphasis on growth. Of concern. The issue has not been raised in the debate so course we need to deal with the deficit, but I for one am far, but it received an enormous amount of coverage in glad that emphasis is now being placed on the need to the run-up to the Gracious Speech: so-called gay marriage. secure growth in the economy. We cannot deal with the I have to say that I am pleased that no Bill on so-called deficit only by cutting expenditure or raising taxes; we gay marriage has been proposed for this Session, but I must have economic growth as well. The priority of this understand that it is the Government’s clear intention parliamentary Session must be growth, growth, growth, to introduce a Bill at some point. I hope that they will and we will support the Government in respect of reconsider that in light of the fact that well over measures that deliver that essential, but so far elusive, 500,000 people have signed the Coalition for Marriage’s piece of the economic jigsaw. petition against changing the definition of marriage. That is more people than have signed any petition on 4.52 pm the Government’s own website. I hope that there will be Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) a solemn and sincere reconsideration of any suggestion (LD): It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member to bring forward such a measure. for Belfast North (Mr Dodds), and it is a privilege to be Once again, this issue highlights the question of the first Liberal Democrat to speak in this Session of whether we are prepared to connect with the views of Parliament. [Interruption.] Apart, that is, from my right the vast majority of the people we purport to represent hon. Friend the Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), in this House or we remain disconnected from the to whom I am about to pay tribute. Let me start, however, concerns of ordinary people in the community. We have by paying tribute to the soldiers whom we remembered already legislated for civil partnerships, and this issue of at the beginning of the Session—and all who serve in gay marriage does not have the support of people out in places of danger in Afghanistan and elsewhere—and to the country. Rather than fixating on issues like that, if our colleagues who died during the last Session. the Prime Minister were to come to my constituency—no I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on- doubt other hon. Members will hear the same thing in Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) for his speech, and for his their constituencies—he would hear about the issues reminder of how diverse a country we are and how we that matter, such as the high and rising price of petrol benefit from that. I also thank my right hon. Friend the and diesel, and the high and rising price of energy. In Member for Gordon, whom I ignored only accidentally Northern Ireland, where we suffer higher petrol and and briefly, for his speech. He has served in this place diesel costs than any other part of not just the United continuously for nearly 29 years, and has been the most Kingdom but the European Union—hard as that is to loyal and steadfast friend and colleague for all that believe—this is a very important matter indeed, but I time. He has been a wonderful representative of Aberdeen, am sorry to say that the Gracious Speech contained no of Aberdeenshire, of his constituency and of his country. reference to any measure that would tackle the high and He has served this Parliament with great distinction, rising price of fuel. not least today. We are very grateful for his public I know that people will say that the Government have service, and I think we would all like to put that on the taken action to deal with the problem, and I accept that record. [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] He is a very measures have been taken that have made the price of valued colleague. fuel lower than it would otherwise have been. However, On the second Wednesday in May two years ago, the people are inundating me and other DUP Members coalition agreement was signed—within five days of the with complaints about the proposed 3p rise in fuel duty last election result being declared and within 24 hours next August, which will undoubtedly make things very of the new Prime Minister taking over at the request of difficult for families and businesses. It will, for instance, the Queen, the deal was done. Two years later, I say on have knock-on effects on the price of food. People behalf of all my colleagues that I am perfectly clear that simply cannot understand why we are seeing these taxes that was the right decision at the time. It was the right go up while taxes on millionaires are coming down. decision at the time for us to enter the coalition, in the There is no doubt that the increase in VAT, which has national interest; and it was the right decision to continue already been mentioned today, has added enormously for the past two years in the coalition, in the national to the burden on families. In November 2008, the present interest; and it will continue to be the right decision to Chancellor said that he would remind the then Government remain in the coalition, in the national interest, for the about the Labour party’s plans to increase VAT from remaining three years of this Parliament. When we 18.5% joined together, we did so knowing it would be a five-year “every single day between now and the next general election.”— programme, and knowing we were committed to seeing [Official Report, 26 November 2008; Vol. 483, c. 741.] it through, and it absolutely is in the national interest He said that it was a shame, and all the rest of it. The thatwedoso. tune has changed dramatically since the Opposition It was obvious from the beginning that returning became the Government, but what was said then about Britain to economic stability would not be achieved in the burden that the increase would inflict on individuals, one year or in two years, and that instead a full five-year businesses and families was absolutely true, and it is still Parliament would be needed. That was the truth then 43 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 44

[Simon Hughes] unaffordable dream. The economic system often encouraged people to take as much as possible for themselves rather and that is the truth now. We were therefore right to than incentivising them to create long-term value and legislate to make the constitutional reform necessary to spread wealth and work as widely as possible, and the have a fixed-term Parliament, in order to give the certainty economy was reliant on energy from scarce resources, that the county needed. If anyone does not believe that the price of which was rising year after year. political certainty is a good thing, they should look at Two years later, we are still not where we need to be. what is happening on the other side of this continent at We have unacceptably high unemployment, especially this very moment. In five days, we were able to bring youth unemployment, which started long before this certainty to our country, despite an indecisive election Government came to office and was on a significant upward result. trend in the last years of the Labour Administration. May I remind the House what the election achieved? We are in an economic recession and banks are still not The Conservatives won 306 seats, and got the support lending enough to viable small businesses, as we all of just over a third of those who voted. know from our constituency casework, whereas the pay of those at the top is rising more than can possibly be Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Are we justified by their performance. We heard the figures just talking about the council elections? this week: an 11% increase in salaries at the top last year, whereas the increase for the working population as a whole was 1%. Simon Hughes: No, this was two years ago. Labour won 258 seats and just under 30% of public support. We It is therefore absolutely right that the Government won 57 seats with 23% of public support. Labour and continue to focus on doing all we can to promote the Liberal Democrats combined did not make a majority. economic growth and recovery, it is right that we continue Indeed, Labour and the Liberal Democrats along with with the programme we set out and it is right that we the next largest party, the Democratic Unionists, would have a programme that, as the last Budget did, seeks to not have made a majority—we would still have been put more money into the pockets of those low and short—whereas the Conservatives plus the Liberal middle income working people and to make work pay. Democrats made a majority, and the country needed a The programme should regulate the banks, encourage majority Government. We therefore did our duty, by the growth of renewable energy and put the public finances agreeing to work with people who were normally our back on a sustainable footing so that the spending opponents, in the national interest, to deliver a common priorities of the Government, about which we care—health programme. We have done that twice in Scotland, working care, education and support for the less well-off—can with Labour in the national interest, and once in Wales, be adequately financed. No Government have ever invested again working with Labour in the national interest. I in better schools or hospitals by bankrupting themselves. believe it was right to do so on all those occasions, and It has been difficult and we on the Liberal Democrat that it was right to do so on this occasion, too. Benches know that. There was no parliamentary majority for getting rid of tuition fees and we were not able to deliver that—it just became undeliverable. The Health Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ and Social Care Bill, the Welfare Reform Bill and the Co-op): Given the Prime Minister’s not-so-ringing Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders endorsement of Lords reform from the Dispatch Box, is Bill needed significant changes and we changed them the right hon. Gentleman absolutely sure that the coalition and made them hugely better—all of them. The evidence is still joined together in a common purpose? is there in the legislation that is now on the statute book. The Budget was grossly misrepresented. Its most Simon Hughes: The answer is yes, and if the hon. significant element was that many millions of people Lady will bear with me, I will deal later with Lords were taken out of paying tax. Many more will be lifted reform, as it is in the Queen’s Speech and the programme out of tax next year and the year after, so that nobody for the coming year. will have to pay anything in tax on their first £10,000 of We need to remember where we were two years ago: income. It was also forgotten that last month pensioners there was turmoil in Greece and in the eurozone, and had the largest increase ever in the state pension since it our constituents were paying out of their money—not was introduced by the post-war Government. Then there our money—£120 million a day just in servicing the was the youth contract, the huge growth in the number interest repayments on our debt. That is not a way to of apprenticeships, and the support for further education. use taxpayers’ money for the good. There was a financial There has already been huge success, but we must crisis caused by a banking system that was entirely ensure that we focus on the priorities. The Gracious focused on short-term gain for the people at the top—as Speech started by setting them out very clearly: economic my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, growth, justice and constitutional reform. We are proud Innovation and Skills said regularly in the previous on the Liberal Democrat Benches that the Secretary of Parliament—rather than on creating long-term value State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my right hon. for the many small businesses that provide work for Friend the Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable), will most people across the country. The public finances see through the creation of the Green investment bank were out of control, we had the largest public deficit in in Edinburgh, for which some of us, as members of an the developed world and the living standards of those environmental party, have argued for many years and on low and middle incomes were being eroded, which will now see delivered. We are proud that the Secretary had been gradually reducing the spending power of the of State for Energy and Climate Change, our right hon. British consumer over the previous decade. The cost of Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey), living was spiralling; for younger people, certainly in will introduce an energy Bill to give us low-carbon constituencies such as mine, a home had become an energy generation and to develop renewables, which 45 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 46 have a fantastic future—not just onshore, but offshore, We have been careful about the difficult issue that tidal, wind and wave, and not just around Scotland but the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden in the whole of the United Kingdom. We are determined (Mr Davis) raised about data and how to deal with it. It to deliver cheaper electricity and greater security of supply. is perfectly reasonable, as my hon. Friend the Member My hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) said, to respond to and others have campaigned for ages for a grocery code the security services’ request that we make all species of adjudicator Bill, and we are delivering that. It will communication areas of consideration for regulation of ensure that farmers, local suppliers and local growers data control—not so that people can know what one is get good value for their products and are not trampled saying but so that we do not have no-go areas for the on by the power of the monopoly supermarket in their security services. We on the Liberal Democrat Benches area. The Minister of State, Department for Work and will not sign up to legislation that will add to the Pensions, my good and hon. Friend the Member for intrusion into citizens’ lives that we saw so often from Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb)—a Liberal Democrat the Labour party when it was in government. Under Minister for Pensions—and his right hon. Friend the Labour, we had a Big Brother state with identity cards Secretary of State, with whom he works so well, are and proposals for 90-day detention. Neither we nor the determined to deliver the new single tier pension to ensure Conservatives are going down that road, and that is why that by the end of this Parliament people will have, there is a draft proposal, which we will look at carefully. rather than the sum of just under £100 a week they get Only if it is acceptable will it get through. as the state pension at the moment, about £140 a week. Let me say a word about the comments of the right That is particularly valuable to women, the low paid hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) on gay and those who have been self-employed. After 30 years marriage. May I say, as a member of the Church, that I of work, people will have a citizen’s pension, for which think it is entirely reasonable that in a modern society in we have always fought. which we have accepted that both gay and straight The Minister of State, Department for Education, couples should be able to have permanent, recognised my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central (Sarah relationships, the state should allow that to happen in Teather)and others are determined, as the Deputy Prime an equal way? It happens in many other places in the Minister has been, that we should have flexible parental world and it does not mean that any denomination of care leave, flexible parental leave and the right to flexible the Church or any other faith group has to accept that, working. Why? They are not just good for the parent endorse it or carry out such ceremonies in its buildings—it and the child, but they allow the parent to stay in work is simply about saying that the state recognises it when rather than giving it up and to be able to mix work, two people want to live their lives as adults together. home, children and a career. That is really important for This is not in the Gracious Speech and was never going women’s equality in this country. Why do we not have to be, because the consultation has not ended. However, many women in this place or on boards? It is partly we should recognise that there is a civil liberties issue at because we do not have those flexible arrangements. stake for many of our constituents. We should not forget that. I bet there are people in every constituency Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald) (Con): in the United Kingdom who want us to make sure that Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that those provisions this issue remains on the agenda. on shared parental leave also provide choice for families at a very important time, when they are having children? Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): Many people will have written to the right hon. Gentleman, Simon Hughes: Absolutely, and I pay tribute to my as they have written to me, about this issue. Does he hon. Friend for her commitment to families and women agree that when it is explained to people that there is a in her profession. She is right—we absolutely need to do clear difference between a civil marriage and a religious that. marriage in terms of what is proposed, most of them are reassured? It is our duty to point that out. We outline in the Gracious Speech the support for those with special educational needs, adding to early-years places for the rising fives so that there is a commitment Simon Hughes: The hon. Gentleman is exactly right; that 40% of rising fives will be able to have support that is exactly the experience I have had. I have Evangelical before they go to school. So, there is much for hard-working, Christian friends who are concerned about this issue, ordinary families and their children in the programme. but when one explains that it does not suddenly make It is not a programme without legislative plans at all—quite something sacramental if that is not what the Church the reverse. or what the individual believes, they are reassured. It is A defamation Bill will deal with the fact that our libel a similar issue—I say this respectfully—as that of tax laws still restrict the liberty of speech in this country. I advantages for people who are married and those who pay tribute in particular to my hon. Friend the Member are not married. In our book, if a couple have lived for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), who has worked very together for 25 years but have not married, they should hard to make sure that this Bill is in the legislative enjoy the same position in the tax system as those who programme. There is a strong proposal for a National have chosen to marry. We have to respect people’s different Crime Agency to deal with terrorists and people who do life choices as adults. not have the interests of this country at heart. We also Those issues are all important, but the most important have proposals for community sentences for restorative legislative proposal for my constituents in a constituency justice. My right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick- that faces the City of London from across the river is upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith) has been absolutely clear none of those—it is banking reform. It is about making about the value of such sentences not just in reforming sure that we divide the banks into retail banks that will people but in value-for-money terms. deal with people’s day-to-day business and separate 47 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 48

[Simon Hughes] because they hope that in so doing they will cause Liberal Democrat Members to go slow on the equalisation them from the speculative, international playing with of constituency boundaries? As Labour Members do money that has brought us to the state we are in. In my not want equalisation of constituency boundaries, they view, the most important aspect of that Bill, for which hope that by frustrating Lords reform they can frustrate my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary’s Department that idea. Can my right hon. Friend assure the House is also responsible, is that which allows shareholders to that he and his colleagues are committed to ensuring control the scandal of executive pay. This week, we have that a vote in Southwark is worth the same as a vote in at last seen the beginning of a change in attitudes at the Banbury, or in Wales or Scotland? top; shareholder power has at last begun to be exerted. We absolutely need to give shareholders the power not Simon Hughes: I am keen that we have a system whereby only to advise and express their view but to say, “I’m votes in all parts of the country are fair. Of course sorry—if you don’t perform, you are not getting the I would like a proportional system, but I accept that I money.” What has happened previously has resulted shall not have that in this Parliament. Friends on the from an “if you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours” Plaid and other Benches know of my Welsh background. attitude in the boardrooms, with people offering each The Welsh have the most advantageous position at the other packages and salaries that are beyond the moment, because many constituencies have far fewer comprehension of most of our constituents. It was electors. We need a fair system. obscene and it is unacceptable, but it was allowed, I do not know what the motives of Labour Members encouraged and developed under a Labour Government, are, but if they try to play silly games and prevent the and that should be to their eternal shame. other place from changing from an entirely nominated or hereditary Chamber to a democratic one, it will be to Malcolm Bruce: Does my right hon. Friend agree that their eternal discredit. This is the best opportunity they shareholders have come to their senses? They recognise have ever had—especially as they did not do it—to that paying directors bonuses for reduced share prices change our Parliament. Why? There are only 15 countries and dividends is not a good deal for anybody. in the world that still have a predominantly appointed second Chamber; I am sure Labour Members would Simon Hughes: Absolutely. If we can have a real rise think that Belize and Burkina Faso are good examples. of shareholder power over the next few years—individuals In only one other country is heredity a determinant for and pension funds—it will be a really good thing. membership of the legislature—Lesotho. It is a lovely There are two more things I want to say. The first is country, but I am not sure that it is the best model for about constitutional reform, in part to answer the hon. democratic, 21st-century politics. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier). There are more Members down the other end of We are right not to forget constitutional reform. The the corridor who are over 90 than under 40. There are Liberal Democrat party is a party of reform. We have 818 Members there already—92 hereditary—and the agreed fixed-term Parliaments—a good thing. We have balance between men and women is 638 to 180. The agreed that there should be no transfer of powers to the Chamber is not representative by gender, ethnicity or European Union without a referendum, which is an age. It is not representative in any way. Why not? Because absolutely reasonable thing. We have agreed that whatever it exists by patronage and heredity. We just have to the number of constituencies, they should at least have move on. It has been on the agenda for 100 years and the same size electorate—a good thing. We have agreed we have to finish the business. to look at devolution to England, which I have argued for a long time, because there is unequal devolution. John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Will the Since I have been in this place we have had fantastically right hon. Gentleman give way? successful devolution in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and I welcome it. England needs a bit of the Simon Hughes: No. same. I say to hon. Friends on the Conservative Benches We have agreed that Back Benchers should be more who are not entirely persuaded about Lords reform that powerful in determining the agenda in this place—a I understand that it is a lovely place, that they look good thing. We have agreed that there will be a change lovely, some of them are lovely, and that it is part of our in the laws of succession to the Crown—absolutely a great, historic constitution and offers a job for life— good thing. I hope it will soon be part of the legislative I am not going there, but they might want to—so I programme. We have more work to do, to make sure we understand why it touches a soft spot, but come on, scrutinise legislation better in this place. We do not do it guys: we have to move on. If the Tory party is to be the well enough in either place; often we do not have modern party that it wants to be and that the Prime enough time here and we leave it to the other end of the Minister says it needs to be, it, too, must deliver. We can building. That is not a plea for more legislation. In talk about the detail, the percentages and the length of every Parliament I have sat in, we have asked for less the term of office, but we must end up with a second legislation and I am glad that we are not trying to jam in Chamber that is predominantly democratically elected. all sorts of things that the public do not want. We want fewer regulations and less legislation, but we want to do Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): it better. The right hon. Gentleman mentioned that the regional variations are significant. On the point his hon. Friend Tony Baldry: Does my right hon. Friend think that the Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) made about the the Opposition have suddenly started mischief-making reduction in the number of constituencies, is the right over Lords reform, by asking for a referendum? Is it hon. Gentleman telling the House this afternoon that 49 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 50 what we are all seeing on social network websites is by definition, that is not possible, but it is better to be in wrong and that there will be no frustration as a result of government influencing a huge amount than in opposition that reduction? influencing nothing. We are determined to use our influence not unfairly, disproportionately or unreasonably, Simon Hughes: First, I am surrounded by colleagues but this is a partnership of two parties. That is the deal who say that those who believe social network websites and that is what we will stick to. are in trouble. Secondly, most things on them are wrong. We won 16% of the vote in the local elections the Thirdly, they are sometimes libellous. Seriously, I understand other day; we won 23% in the general election. It is not the general point the hon. Gentleman is making. I am an impossible task over three years to build confidence, not a member of the Government and so cannot speak but it depends on whether we can get the economy going, for them, but I can speak for my colleagues here. What help growth, make sure that we are seen to be economically we want is a package of constitutional reform that has a competent and deliver a fairer Britain. fair constituency system. There is an argument about how many constituencies there should be—I was never I think that we can do it, and Asquith gave us something in favour of the number going down quite as far as it 100 years ago this year as an encouragement on our has done, but there was an argument for making it way. In his speech in Nottingham to our party conference, smaller—and there is a strong argument for having at a time when he was leading one of the greatest equal numbers, but there is an equally strong argument Governments in British history, he said this— for Lords reform. I hope that Labour will support us in delivering both, and we will be watching. Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): Were you there?

Meg Hillier: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? Simon Hughes: I was not there, no—not even in my previous life! Simon Hughes: No, because other colleagues wish to Asquith said: speak and I am bringing my comments to a close. “If we have—and I believe you will see that we have—concentration The new President of France said after he was elected of purpose, unity of spirit, and unshaken firmness of resolve, on Sunday that his two priorities were a fairer country then, long and stormy though the voyage may have been before it and support for the next generation, the young people comes to an end, the ship will find her way with a full cargo into of France. I think that those are good things for us to the desired haven.” champion for our country from these Benches. We need Liberal Democrats are determined to deliver us safely a redistribution of wealth and of work, an end to the on the other side and, much more importantly, to obscenity of top pay and a closing of the gap between deliver our constituents to a better Britain, with better rich and poor. We need to make sure that work always prospects, higher employment, lower unemployment pays, to create more apprenticeships and a more skilled and a much more secure economy for the five years work force, to give more opportunities for employment following 2015 than the one we inherited when we took and self-employment and to build the largest opportunity over in 2010. for infrastructure investment that we can manage, in all countries and regions of the UK, and the largest affordable programme for housing that we can deliver, particularly 5.20 pm social rented housing, which is desperately needed in Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): It is a pleasure to my constituency and elsewhere. I guess that there is not follow the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old a single colleague who does not have constituents coming Southwark (Simon Hughes), who I know takes a great to their surgery every week pleading with them to find interest in Hartlepool—largely because he spent most somewhere where they and their partner, or they and of the 2004 by-election there trying to stop me becoming their parents, or they and their children can live. Young a Member. people need a decent careers and youth service, decent In his opening and closing remarks, the right hon. work experience, decent mentoring, good apprenticeships Gentleman mentioned elections both general and local, and good further and higher education. and I have to tell him that after Thursday’s local elections, To the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, I say, on Hartlepool borough council the Liberal Democrats “You were right, of course, to take as many poor people now have no representation whatever, which shows the out of tax as you have, but please do not again reduce scale of the challenge that he and his party face in terms tax rates for the well-off.” Whatever the balance of of getting into bed with the Conservatives. equity, it came across very badly, it did not look as if we are all in this together and the evidence does not show Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): I am confused that any further reduction will do any greater good for by this continuing slur of “getting into bed with the the economy. We have had one Budget which does this Conservatives”, because in Scotland we now have coalitions and we know the outcome, but no more please. Let us of every possible hue, including Labour and Tory coalitions. take the poorer out of tax, not the people at the top. Does the hon. Gentleman attack those coalitions with To colleagues here who sometimes have disagreements the same vigour that he attacks this one here? with the Government—we all do—I say that we have to remain strong, united, determined, liberal and radical. Mr Wright: I use the phrase “getting into bed with We have to be committed to the things we came here the Tories” not because it is of my own making, but for: the spreading of wealth and power and a cleaner, after speaking to my constituents and people elsewhere greener, safer and, above all, fairer Britain. who were thinking about voting Liberal Democrat, who To the people outside who wonder what we are doing might have fallen out of love with Labour following the in this difficult coalition, I say that we are clear that we 2005 general election and who wanted to consider cannot achieve everything we want because in a coalition, something else in 2010, but who now feel let down and 51 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 52

[Mr Iain Wright] Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman explain how high interest rates betrayed. That is the scale of the challenge that the hon. will stimulate growth? Gentleman’s party faces with regard to reinvigorating the trust of the people. Mr Wright: High interest rates do not stimulate growth, Almost the first words that Her Majesty said in her but, equally, low interest rates indicate that there is no speech today were: economic stimulus whatever. We need a rounder, more holistic approach to economic policy that focuses not “My Ministers’ first priority will be to reduce the deficit and solely on reducing the deficit, but on making sure that restore economic stability.” we can stimulate the economy to embark on jobs and Those words were almost identical to the ones that the growth. Queen uttered in the first Session of this Parliament, two years ago, when she stated: Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ “The first priority is to reduce the deficit and restore economic Co-op): Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the growth.” challenges is the issue of businesses not being able to get In the intervening two years, the Government have loans? The Prime Minister spoke with enthusiasm about done little that they set themselves on both counts. They Project Merlin and the loan guarantee scheme, but that have had to borrow about £150 billion more than they is not delivering to businesses. There is no contradiction originally forecast back in 2010, and they have failed to between cutting a deficit and getting banks to lend. It is deal effectively with the deficit and to restore economic in the Government’s power to do so, but they are not growth, because they have focused exclusively—some acting. might say almost obsessively—on the former, reducing the deficit, instead of giving sufficient priority to the Mr Wright: I absolutely agree. Later, I want to mention latter, economic growth. It should not be an either/or that we need more investment and to unlock investor game. Tax revenues are lower because of weak demand confidence and provide more business investment. That and reduced consumer spending, while expenditure is is at terminally low rates at the moment. rising because of the need to pay out more in unemployment Emphasis should have been given to a new finance benefits. The British economy is now in a more perilous Bill with measures to boost demand in the economy state than when the Government took office two years ago. and put more money in the pockets of millions, rather The Prime Minister and the Chancellor will trot out than prioritising tax cuts for millionaires and tax rises the excuse of the difficulties experienced in the eurozone, for pensioners. Communities such as mine in Hartlepool and there is some truth in that, but they cannot escape and the wider north-east see a Government presiding the fact that the retreat into recession has been caused over unprecedented cuts to income, living standards almost directly by their actions and policies. We are and public services, huge rises in unemployment and experiencing this country’s longest downturn since the matters being made worse by Government measures 1920s. Britain is emerging from the deep global recession such as the rise in VAT, hikes in student fees, cuts to tax of 2008-09 more slowly than from previous recessions and, credits and increased taxes for pensioners. crucially, more slowly than our main economic competitors, At the same time, the Chancellor is insisting that the meaning that our rivals in the global marketplace are country can afford to give those earning more than stealing a march on us. The actions of this Government £150,000 a year a tax cut and that, in the current today are compromising our competitiveness in the climate, millionaires should be given priority and pay global economy of tomorrow. about £40,000 a year less in tax. A new finance Bill The US economy grew by 3% in the last quarter of could have set about repairing some of the damage 2011 and by 2.2% in the first quarter of this year. from the previous Finance Bill, which has been carried Alongside Greece and Italy, Spain is generally—almost over into this Session; it could have put us on the path universally—acknowledged to be one of the economic to economic recovery, jobs and growth. basket cases of the eurozone, but even the Spanish Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con) economy grew more in 2011 than Britain’s. Today’s rose— publication of UK retail figures, which show a 3.3% fall year on year—the largest fall in more than a year— Mr Wright: I hope that the hon. Lady will agree. demonstrates the general weakness of the economy, the lack of demand and the fragility of consumer confidence. Andrea Leadsom: It seems rather astonishing that the hon. Gentleman should be suggesting that the Government Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): Will the hon. should be spending more money. Does he run a household Gentleman congratulate the Government on maintaining budget as I do? When people are trying to feed a family, our triple A credit rating status and acknowledge the it is clear that if they borrow lots of money and pay fact that we have among the lowest long-term interest extremely high interest rates—because their intention is rates in the world at the moment? That is a major to borrow even more money—that will not get them achievement. into any position to balance their budget or move on from the parlous state in which they find themselves. Is Mr Wright: We do have those things, but we have no the hon. Gentleman not aware that we are already growth. I fear that the rehashing of phrases in the paying £200 million a day in interest, just to service the Gracious Speech today—often word-for-word repeats debt that his Government incurred? of what was said in 2010—will mean that the Government will continue to insist on economic policies that consign Mr Wright: What I am suggesting is that if the the country to a decade of stagnation, anaemic growth, Government were serious about economic growth and mass unemployment and rising social division. promoting the conditions for competitiveness and enterprise, 53 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 54 they would be doing a lot more to stimulate growth and closely correlated, as David Blanchflower points out in job creation. For example, they could have announced a his article in The Independent today. He argues that British investment bank Bill, which would have provided Germany and the Netherlands have much higher levels a clear and welcome acknowledgement that active of employment protection than the UK but experienced partnership between Government and productive businesses a much smaller rise in unemployment during the recession will allow the state to ensure that growth capital is and its aftermath. provided to the small and medium-sized businesses that need it, for which the market has failed. Andrea Leadsom rose— Active partnership between Government and businesses can work. Successful modern economies such as Singapore Mr Wright: I hope that the Government will recognise and Germany do it, and their economies will see long-term, that point in taking forward legislation, and that the sustainable business success and economic growth as a hon. Lady will recognise it as well. result. Even the US, supposedly the most free market economy on earth, does it; we saw the likes of fast-growing Andrea Leadsom: I agree that we have got into a young companies such as Apple and Intel receive growth position in this country whereby certain big businesses funding through the US Government’s small business have behaved extremely badly towards their employees, investment company programme. On the subject of and towards capitalism itself. That has not been about active government in the US, why did not the Gracious true entrepreneurism but just money for old rope. Does Speech include the British equivalent of President Obama’s the hon. Gentleman agree that the answer to that is to Jumpstart Our Business Startups Act, which is designed change the way in which we do corporate governance by to increase the number of jobs and to kick-start initial introducing new powers for shareholders to ensure that public offerings for companies and ensure that they they can hold to account the chief executives and boards have access to finance for growth? We should be doing of such companies? the same here. Mr Wright: I would certainly agree with making Mel Stride: Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that improvements to this country’s corporate governance according to Companies House there were more new model. Germany has a good model, and although it business start-ups in the last quarter than at any time cannot be replicated exactly, it is something that we since this Government came to office? should consider. I have mentioned the recommendations of the High Pay Commission, which referred to employee Mr Wright: You will never hear from me, Mr Deputy involvement in remuneration. I hope that that approach Speaker, any criticism of trying to get as many start-ups will continue. By having a responsible capitalist agenda, as possible. I would welcome a culture of enterprise and we can make improvements to secure long-term sustainable allowing businesses to grow, but firms that are starting growth in this country. Perhaps the hon. Lady and I can up are being penalised by not being given access to agree on that. finance and capital to allow them to do so. Mrs Grant: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that The Gracious Speech referred to the introduction of extreme and unreasonable levels of employment protection “legislation to reform competition law to promote enterprise and can be a disincentive to enterprise? fair markets.” I hope that the Government will confirm that that Bill Mr Wright: I speak to businesses in my constituency will contain measures to curb excessive executive and elsewhere virtually every day, and they are not remuneration and encourage increased shareholder activism, telling me that they are hindered in that way. This goes as that was not specifically mentioned in the Queen’s to a wider point about the Queen’s Speech and about Speech. I also hope that they will legislate to implement the Government’s having the wrong priorities and the all—I emphasise all—the sensible and widely accepted wrong values in this respect. I am arguing that we recommendations of the High Pay Commission earlier should be concentrating on increasing employment and this year on matters such as simplification of executive having a system whereby we can secure long-term remuneration, standardisation of reporting to ensure sustainable business growth for this country. We should that meaningful comparisons can take place, and, be making it easier for people to hire workers, not fire importantly, the inclusion of employee representation them. on remuneration committees. Recent events at the likes I hope, too, that the reference in the Queen’s Speech of UBS, Trinity Mirror, Barclays, AstraZeneca and to the limiting of state inspection of businesses will not Aviva have shown that there is shareholder appetite for serve as a cover for further cuts to the Health and Safety ensuring that poor performance is not rewarded through Executive’s budget or an undermining of the safety excessive pay. I hope that the High Pay Commission’s regime in the workplace. On 28 April we commemorated recommendations will be implemented in full. workers memorial day and were reminded that I hope that the reference in the Queen’s Speech to 20,000 people would die prematurely this year from “repealing unnecessary legislation”will not mean stripping injuries sustained or diseases contracted as a result of away workers’ rights. Making it easier to fire people unsatisfactory health and safety in the workplace. Fatalities does not create jobs, employment or economic growth; in the construction industry have risen in the past year, instead, such an environment creates a Victorian-mill-owner and responsible Governments and businesses recognise culture of bad bosses being accepted and enshrined in that a comprehensive safety regime, suitably audited, legislation. It will do nothing to stimulate consumer actually enhances productivity and efficiency and ultimately confidence or growth in demand, which are so very has a beneficial effect on the bottom line. I therefore vital. It is also wrong to suggest that the level of hope that workers’ health and safety rights will not be employment protection and rises in unemployment are stripped away. 55 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 56

[Mr Iain Wright] “People now regard this as a government that fails on the three i’s: it is incoherent, incompetent and has run out of ideas.” The Queen’s Speech referred to the Government’s Today’s Queen’s Speech provided the opportunity for a commitment to true and meaningful relaunch, which could have ensured “improve the lives of children and families”, that the Government reassessed their values and priorities with which the whole House would agree. However, and tried again. They failed to do that. This country today’s report by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation forecasts and my constituency, particularly its young people, will that child poverty will increase in the next decade. It suffer the consequences of that missed opportunity for concludes by stating that the Government should take a decades to come. more targeted approach to employment programmes and aim them at families in my constituency and elsewhere 5.39 pm who often have not seen meaningful or sustained work for three generations or so. That could break the cycle Mr Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood) (Con): The hon. of unemployment, poverty, deprivation and the loss of Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) was on stronger ambition and aspiration. There was nothing in the ground when he talked about the importance of policies Queen’s Speech to allow that to take place. and opportunities to create growth to address the unemployment that affects his constituency and many The most serious issue facing Hartlepool both socially others. Although I did not agree with many of his policy and economically is the level of unemployment, which prescriptions, I agreed with his definition of the challenge—I is higher now than it was at the height of the global think, from his speech earlier, that my right hon. Friend recession in 2008. Youth unemployment is a particular the Prime Minister did, too. However, I did not follow concern. One in four young men in my constituency are the hon. Gentleman into the closing stages of his speech out of work, which will cause immense social and because he is simply wrong to say that the Government economic problems in the next 20, 30 or 40 years. The do not have a clear view about what they are trying Government really need to deal with that, and measures to do. such as the abolition of the future jobs fund, the cancellation of education maintenance allowance and the hike in I welcome the Queen’s Speech precisely because it tuition fees do not help young people in my constituency. refocuses the minds of hon. Members and supporters of I wanted to see in the Gracious Speech something like a the Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties, and future jobs fund or a skills and retraining Bill, to ensure more importantly, of those beyond the political world, that my constituency and others were best placed to on the objectives that we set ourselves when the coalition come out of their economic difficulties in a better Government were formed. To me, that is the key win in position than when they went into them. Sadly, the the Queen’s Speech. Queen’s Speech was lacking in that regard. Some members of my party have, in the past few weeks, and particularly in the past few days, sought opportunities Mrs Grant: Does the hon. Gentleman not agree, to strengthen the Conservative flavour, as they see it, in though, that policies on flexible working and shared the coalition. I want to offer one or two responses to parental leave will have the effect of keeping people in that, based on the Queen’s Speech, and comment on work? one or two specific proposals. As a lifelong Conservative, I have no problem in Mr Wright: I believe the balance that the Labour arguing the case for Conservative ideas. However, I have Government struck was probably about right. There a problem with those who seek to reinterpret the will always be different emphases, but I reiterate the Conservative case excessively narrowly. There is nothing point that I made in answer to a previous intervention. in the Queen’s Speech that cannot be argued full heartedly Businesses say to me, “We want to have the conditions as a mainstream Conservative proposal. All the measures for growth. We want to be able to hire workers. The issue can be traced to proper Conservative roots and, indeed, is not about being able to fire workers more easily—that to roots in the Liberal Democrat tradition. is not what we are about.” The emphasis and priorities There has been much debate, including in the House that the Government have set out in the Gracious this afternoon, about House of Lords reform and whether Speech and elsewhere are completely wrong. there is a proper Conservative narrative for it. I argue It astonishes me that after only two years, the strongly that there is. I intervened on my right hon. Government seem to have run out of steam. The rehashing Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden of words and phrases in the Queen’s Speech is evidence (Mr Davis) to remind him that it is nearly 50 years since of that. It is difficult to think of the big reforming Lord Hailsham, who happened to be Margaret Thatcher’s Governments of the past century—the right hon. Member first Lord Chancellor, described our system of government for Bermondsey and Old Southwark mentioned Asquith, as possessing inadequate checks and balances on the and we can think about Attlee, Thatcher or Blair—being powers of the Executive. He described it as an “elective devoid of policy areas only 24 months after being elected. dictatorship”, so when my right hon. Friend the Leader Governments used to talk about relaunches after two of the House of Lords is quoted in today’s Financial terms of office, not after two years. The Government Times as arguing the case for reform of another place have no sense of national mission and have not set out on the ground that it will make that Chamber, the values that are really needed or what they want the “‘stronger, more independent’ and better able ‘to challenge the British economy to look like in 2020 or 2030. They lack, decisions of the Commons’”, in the eloquent words of the Business Secretary, a I allow myself a gentle cheer. I think that Lord Hailsham, “compelling vision” of where they want to take the from his grave, would cheer the prospect of our seeking economy. a structure that allows Parliament to be a more effective As The Sunday Times stated this weekend: check on the Executive. 57 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 58

We either believe in the case for less and better At the very heart of the purpose of the coalition government, and more checks and balances in government Government is the intention to create a stable economic —as a Conservative, I do; that Governments should be base not merely to address the deficit, but to move on subject to checks and balances and accountability is a from that to create the environment in which growth core Conservative belief—or we do not. My right hon. begins to re-emerge, as the hon. Member for Hartlepool Friend the Leader of the House of Lords clearly does. I said. The purpose of economic policy is not to make the am delighted that the Government, from both Conservative books balance—as the Prime Minister said over the and Liberal Democrat traditions, believe in the case for weekend, it is not an exercise in accountancy—but to more effective checks and balances and accountability create the environment in which interest rates are low, to Parliament. I look forward to the conversion of that confidence returns, and growth starts the process of big idea into precise legislation as the Session goes on. creating jobs in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency and elsewhere. Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): I am I find the argument of the shadow Chancellor wholly listening carefully to the right hon. Gentleman, who unpersuasive. He appears to believe that we lack a makes a strong case. I do not know what we will end up Government appetite to borrow. How a British Government with, but does he agree that one way of improving the deliver stability in the Europe of 2012 by building on checks and balances would be through avoiding the their already excessive borrowing rate and building strict timetabling of every single measure that comes more borrowing into our public finances is simply beyond before the House? me. I believe that that is unrealistic, but more seriously, I also believe that the shadow Chancellor knows it is Mr Dorrell: I have much sympathy for that point of unrealistic. If he does, it is not only unrealistic, but dishonest. view. I have been here for perhaps rather more years The purpose that brought the Government together, than I should, but I remember long debates when which enlists the support of every Conservative and parliamentary scrutiny was more effective than it often Liberal Democrat Member of Parliament, is the prime is now. Before the last general election, there were objective of recreating economic stability to create growth, repeated occasions on which complex legislation passed so that we can deliver the wealth required to deliver through on a timetable that suited the Government improving standards of living and improving public rather than provided for proper parliamentary scrutiny. services. How do we do that? The hon. Member for There will be those—I am certainly among them—who Hartlepool argued that what we need is a state bank will look for ways to strengthen the voice of the House that would make better investment decisions than the of Commons, as we should. I agree with my right hon. private banking sector. I do not agree with that. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark What I do agree with are the two key Bills in the (Simon Hughes), who referred to the strengthening Queen’s Speech, one of which is the Bill on banking during this Parliament of the Back-Bench voice, which reform, to address some of the failings that have been has been a step forward and a good thing. However, identified, not just by politicians but by the Governor of those who look for effective checks within the legislature the Bank of England last week and by many commentators. on Executive enthusiasms do well to look at another One of the learning experiences of the events of 2005-09 place as part of the answer to that, in addition to reform was that the banking system did not have proper risk of House of Commons procedure. assurance to reduce the risks that the taxpayer ended up Therefore, to those in the Conservative party who picking up. The process of banking reform is important ask, “Where is the Conservative provenance for House and I welcome the fact that the Government are pressing of Lords reform?” I say, “Read the history books.” I forward with it. will certainly be uncomfortable if we are manoeuvred I also welcome the fact that the Government are into a position in which we appear to defend what I pressing forward with the reform and accentuation of regard as a wholly unacceptable Blairite compromise, competition policy, because I strongly believe that, once which we opposed vigorously at the time of the legislative the Government’s finances are under control, the real proposals at the beginning of the Labour Government. answer to the question of how to recreate growth, Having said all that, it is clearly true that such reform confidence and prosperity in the economy is through a is an important internal process within the Westminster banking system that works and a competitive, free-enterprise village, but not the key issue that our constituents look economy. That is at the heart of the Queen’s Speech. It to the Government, the Queen’s Speech and the House has obvious provenance in the Conservative tradition, to address. To again pick up a theme developed by my and it has equally obvious provenance in the Liberal right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Democrat tradition, and that is why this stream of ideas Old Southwark, we should remind ourselves that the comes together to create a strong coalition Government. Government are a coalition. Because they are a coalition, The Government are not, I am pleased to say, just they have a large working majority in the House of about economics. They also have a broad-based programme Commons, which is a good thing in terms of the stability for the reform of public service delivery—in which my and strategic purpose it provides. However, the majority right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education is more important in another respect: the two parties in particular is carrying forward a programme of reform that make up the coalition have a broader electoral base that will deliver strong improvements in our school in the community outside Westminster than has been system and our wider education system as a result of the case for any recent Government. We have a stable the ideas that we share across the coalition. We also Government with a clear purpose, which was redefined have a shared commitment to the promotion of and re-emphasised in the Queen’s Speech and in the environmental policies through the Green investment speech of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, and bank. That such ideas are shared across the coalition is not just a Government cobbled together in the immediate the key point that I want to draw out of the Queen’s aftermath of the last general election. Speech. 59 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 60

[Mr Dorrell] right hon. Gentleman seems to suggest that simplification of the system is as important as proper funding. Funding I wish to focus on one specific policy—social care. may be a big challenge, but simplification is vital if we This is a more techy point than a political ideas point, are to deliver the domiciliary aspect of care. but it is an extremely important point from the perspective of the people who rely on our health and social care Mr Dorrell: I entirely agree with the hon. Lady’s view. system. There was, of course, an expectation of legislation Reform of social care is not the same thing as reforming on social care reform in this Session. What we now have the funding system. In my view, we cannot deliver a is a commitment in the Queen’s Speech to a draft Bill good value, high quality health and care system just by reflecting a continuing thinking process within the changing funding flows. What is required is something Government—I am pleased to see that the hon. Member more fundamental, which is changing the way in which for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Burstow), the Minister care is delivered in each locality, in order—as the hon. with responsibility for social care, is in his place. I shall Lady rightly says—to reduce the number of competing, not seek his comments on what I am about to say, but and often non-communicating, bureaucracies in the system. I am glad that he will hear it. If the time that the Government are taking will be used to answer the question of how to deliver more Tony Baldry: In the briefing that hon. Members were integrated, joined-up care, and then how to pay for it, it sent before this debate by organisations including Carers will be time extremely well spent. If it is simply a delay UK, they actually asked for a draft Bill so that it could while we try to solve the problems of how to pay for the be properly considered before final legislation was eventually existing system, we will continue to ask the wrong, brought forward. unanswerable question. On social care, I have made a specific point, but on Mr Dorrell: My hon. Friend leads me neatly to my the Queen’s Speech as a whole, I have made a more next point. It seems to me to be an odd argument to important point with a broader political reach. The suggest that if the Government have not yet clearly Government have a clear purpose, both in our economic made up their mind precisely how they propose to policy and in our broader views about the type of deliver the important issue of social care reform, it then society that we are seeking to create. It is not a coincidence becomes a source of criticism that there is not a Bill that my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice with a commitment to legislate. I am old-fashioned and Howden spoke today about liberty and justice, or enough—as my hon. Friend suggests most of us interested that the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old in this issue are—to think that the most important issue Southwark focused on the importance of individual is to deliver a clear policy and then to legislate. I do not responsibility and rights as opposed to the collective criticise the insistence that we have a clear policy before tradition that comes from parties on the political left. I we have a Bill and a commitment to legislate. support the Queen’s Speech and this Conservative-led I welcome the fact that the process of clarification of coalition, because it already has achievements of which policy is continuing, provided that it takes us beyond both Conservatives and Liberal Democrats can be discussion about funding. While Dilnott made some proud. The Queen’s Speech makes clear the continuing important points about the need for a fairer system of commitment on the part of the Government to build on distributing the cost burden among those who pay for and follow through the achievements of our first two social care—some of those ideas will be part of the years. eventual conclusion on health and social care—the problem is that he was asked to answer the wrong 5.59 pm question, and that is becoming increasingly obvious as the public discussion continues. The question put to Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): It is a Dilnott was how to restructure the payment arrangements great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for for the existing structure of social care. But if we step Charnwood (Mr Dorrell), who has once more shown back from the question of funding and look at how care that he is a master of his brief. His remarks about care is actually delivered in each locality—between the social were thoughtful. Over the coming weeks, we can develop care system, the primary health care system and the some of the thoughts he has expounded, and undoubtedly community health care system—the inescapable conclusion he will make an important contribution to this debate, if is that the structure is no longer fit for purpose. It was he has not done so already. designed primarily to deliver health care to people who I am tempted into the arena of reform of the other had a burden of disease that was the pattern 30, 40 or place. I will be honest: it is the least of my worries. As 50 years ago, whereas today’s health and care system we all know, it began in 1911, and for all I know, in the needs to meet the needs of a very different group of next century we will still be talking about it—well, we patients. It is a difficult thing to measure, but depending will not, but others will be. I recall the valiant efforts of on how one chooses to do so, between two thirds and the late Robin Cook, for example, who was effectively three quarters of the resources employed in the health stitched up to fail by the Labour Whips. There are very and care system are devoted to people with long-term, powerful forces at work within and without the usual complex needs. Their requirement is for joined-up care channels, so let us not get too excited about sudden that supports them and enables them to lead lives that reform. are as full as possible during the period of their longer I am sure that Members will recognise, however, that life expectancy. the other place needs reform. Clearly, any Chamber with even a partly hereditary principle has got to be Meg Hillier: As a former carer for two adults with wrong and due for reform, but how do we reform it? complex needs, I counted that at one point I was dealing Each suggestion seems to have consequences we have with 13 different agencies to provide their care. The not thought about. For example, would elected or appointed 61 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 62

Members next door have the same validity, legitimacy I have heard it said that there will be a power to name and so on? If we empower the other Chamber, will we and shame. That is one thing that supermarkets, for have a political boxing match with them all the time as example, would be concerned about, but equally there we often have within this Chamber? I am sure that we must be a power to impose substantial financial penalties. will address those questions, but personally I will not Small financial penalties will not do the office justice; hold my breath in expectation of imminent reform— they must be substantial if they are to mean anything although I might be wrong, as I often am. at all. That is not to say that I favour the status quo, but I I referred to the dairy industry. The problems are not do foresee problems—some visible ones, some undercurrents unique to Wales—they are across the board—but since —that could stymie our debate. We might come up with 1999 the number of Welsh dairy farmers has halved. wonderful solutions, but with the best will in the world, This week’s tuppence cut by Dairy Crest has wreaked will they happen? [Interruption.] Does the hon. Member havoc on many people in north, mid and south Wales. It for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) wish to intervene? is said that a cut of between 3p and 4p, for example, I would be pleased to accept an intervention. [Interruption.] means a loss of £65 million to the Welsh dairy sector. I It was just the way he was sitting. I beg his pardon. would like the EU dairy package on contracts introduced on a compulsory rather than a voluntary basis, and Dr Murrison: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for I hope that DEFRA Ministers will hold a full and frank his invitation to intervene. He referred to excitement in discussion with devolved Ministers on that basis. his remarks. How much did he detect across the country This issue does not only concern dairy farmers, however; in the run-up to the recent elections? I looked but could suppliers in general are being hammered by the unfair not find any. contract terms and pressures being applied. I remember seeing several Ministers about this matter, including Lord Mr Llwyd: The hon. Gentleman has hit an interesting Bach, who said, candidly, “I need six or seven names and note. The good people of Dwyfor Meirionnydd were examples of pressure being applied”, but dairy farmers, hugely underwhelmed at the thought of House of Lords concerned about being victimised and losing their contracts, reform, given that there were at least another 210 subjects were not prepared to put their heads above the parapet. they wanted to talk about first. As one said to me, “Half a loaf is better than no loaf at For what they are worth, I shall leave those comments all.” So, there we are. I understand that there will now on Lords reform up in the air—pointless, as they may be a right to complain anonymously. well be. I will give the House the example of a farmer in the The Gracious Speech contained several interesting constituency whom I have the privilege to represent proposals, but as always the devil is in the detail. who bottles water—the purest water in Wales, apparently. Nevertheless, I shall speak on the basis of what I know On occasion, I have even drunk it. now of the speech. First, though, I would like to congratulate Her Majesty on her reign and on having The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice been an excellent monarch for many years. I fully welcome (Mr Crispin Blunt): When desperate. the Government’s intention to bring in the groceries ombudsman—I think that is what it is called—in the Mr Llwyd: Well, with something else. [Interruption.] Gracious Speech. Many of us throughout the House have The farmer came to an agreement with one of the championed such a thing for a long time. I first came to large supermarkets. Believe it or not, it came out like it in about 2004—2005 possibly—and many people in this: the supplier was allowed 1.5p profit per litre of the Chamber and outside have argued similarly. water, but the water was sold by the supermarket for As we know, a draft Bill was published and scrutinised more than 80p. He declined to do it. That 1.5p included during the last Session and might well be the basis of travelling from mid-Wales across to Shropshire to deliver the legislation coming before us shortly. Ministers in the the water every day. It simply was not worth his while, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, yet apparently those terms are typical. We need to get to I and everyone in the Chamber are aware of the crisis in grips with these issues, otherwise all our home producers the milk industry, for example. We need an ombudsman —of good vegetables, apples and so on—will say, “Well, with real powers and teeth to tackle these problems, as it’s not worth it. We’re packing up.” That is the last thing the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) we want. said. We owe it not only to the farming community but to the many other suppliers to ensure that the ombudsman Dr Murrison: I agree absolutely with the right hon. can act to good effect. Unless we do that, I am afraid Gentleman’s remarks about producers and farmers. Of that the measure might prove a damp squib. course, my constituents, many of whom farm, would expect me to say that. However, my constituents also Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op): Does the require good value for money from supermarkets. Does right hon. Gentleman agree that it would be sensible to he agree that it is important that supermarkets can seek amendments to ensure that the ombudsman’s powers apply pressure to large multinational chains that produce are in the Bill and not kept in reserve? goods and from which consumers need good value? There is a clear difference between the two. Mr Llwyd: I am always in favour, where possible, of putting the powers in the Bill, because many things Mr Llwyd: Yes, and one hopes that the ombudsman happen by way of secondary legislation that slip through will be involved in that scenario as well. We shall no on the nod, and suddenly we have unintended consequences doubt consider the Bill shortly, and I hope that that and law that is not as workable or useful as we might aspect will be covered; otherwise, we will be doing only have thought. I agree, therefore, with the hon. Gentleman. half the job. I agree with what the hon. Gentleman says. 63 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 64

[Mr Llwyd] will be problems ahead. I hope that we will be able to achieve those improvements, because there is certainly I shall move on swiftly to the notion of televising a case for doing so, but I am afraid that there will be court proceedings, which has not yet been mentioned. problems. As a lawyer, I am not in favour of televising advocates, I can add nothing to what the right hon. Member for because there could be a danger of their playing to the Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) said about the gallery. I am not saying that many would do so, but proposals for internet surveillance. He put forward his some might. I understand, however, that the proposals views on them in the clearest possible way. I actually will follow the Scottish model, which would be very believe that there is a case for surveillance to enable the sensible. They would confine the televising to the judge’s security services to carry out their work, but there must summing up and sentencing remarks. That would be be safeguards in place. I am sure that we will be able to helpful, because sentencing remarks give out not only a discuss that matter further. The proposals for secret warning to the public but an indication to practitioners courts are doomed to failure from the beginning. What of the penalties that certain offences attract. A period the right hon. Gentleman did not say—unintentionally, of experimentation would be helpful in this regard. no doubt—was that several special advocates have resigned, Much has been said about the recent flurry of activity over the years, because they find the concept so one-sided from active shareholders in companies such as Trinity and unjust that they do not want to be part of it. Mirror and Aviva. I will not rehearse those arguments, Should we be perpetuating and extending that system? but I hope that we will see a strengthening of shareholder The answer, quite frankly, is no, and anyone with any democracy. It is abominable that share values can go concern for the court process would undoubtedly say down while bonuses go up. That makes no sense whatever. that that is the proper response. We also believe in a maximum wage, with a set differential I am surprised that there was no mention in the between those at the top of a company and those at the speech of the High Speed 2 rail link. We have heard a bottom. That is not a new idea. In fact, it was first floated lot about it over the past few months, but it seems to by the successful financier J. P. Morgan more than have gone to ground for the time being. I was rather 100 years ago. It seems to work well in many spheres, looking forward to Wales receiving a Barnett formula and I would like to see it happening in this context. I consequential of around £1.9 billion, which could be would also support workers’ representation in the spent on improving transport infrastructure across Wales boardroom, to provide perspective for companies on and electrifying the lines that sorely need it. remuneration and on the business of the company in general. Perhaps we can learn from structures that are Geraint Davies: I agree that we should be campaigning already in place in successful countries such as Germany. for that £1.9 billion consequential for Wales. Does the I wholeheartedly welcome the notion of the separation right hon. Gentleman agree that, in addition to the case of retail and investment banking. The Chancellor will for electrification, there is a case to be made for a know that that proposal has the support of the whole reduction in the Severn bridge toll? Traffic across the House; it is long overdue. bridge was reduced by 7% last year, but we need that Proposals have been put forward for a single-tier connectivity to the south-west if we are to build the pension and, from what I have heard, that seems a good economy of south Wales. idea. We floated the idea in 2010, with what we called the living pension. This seems to be a similar idea and, Mr Llwyd: The hon. Gentleman is right; that is whatever it is called, if it is pitched reasonably, it will be becoming an issue. The decrease in traffic across the a good measure. We all have examples of widows telling bridge in the past two years has been quite stark, and us that they have missed three or four years’ work while that is not going to help anyone’s economy. I am sure they brought up their children, and that they are now that there is a case for such a reduction, and we should condemned to receiving a much lower state pension. A look carefully at it. Otherwise, there could be a drag on single-tier pension would be simpler to administer and further development in that part of Wales, if not the better all round. I welcome the notion, at least, although whole of the country. we will need to look into the details that will no doubt I would have welcomed further steps towards devolving appear before long. powers relating to energy generation projects over 50 MW On the proposals for procedural changes to adoption, to the Welsh Government. Some of us who took part in there is certainly a case for ensuring that youngsters the deliberations on the last Wales legislation did not who come up for adoption are taken care of with the understand how the figure of 50 MW had been arrived minimum of fuss and delay. Delay only adds to the at. The result has been that potential developers, often heartache. I have no doubt that we all have the best multinationals, can get their developments—windmills, interests of the children at heart, but we must remember for example, which not everyone is in favour of—pushed that 40% of our courts have now been shut down and through on the nod by the Department in London over tens of thousands of court staff have been laid off. the heads of those in the Welsh Government. That is Those staff would have assisted families in their first not right. The other side of that coin is that several encounter with the court process. In addition, hundreds thousand people in mid-Wales make their living out of of people at the Children and Family Court Advisory developing sustainable energy materials and projects. and Support Service—which prepares reports on families I would like to see that expanded, which is why I would involved in placement and, ultimately, adoption—have like the limit of 50 MW to be removed. We need to also gone, and there have been huge cuts in the probation develop that industry further. It is already moving forward; service. There have been cuts in social services as well. mid-Wales is like a mini-silicon valley, with thousands How are we going to improve the adoption service of jobs involved. We need to carry on encouraging that, against the background of those cuts? I think that there and we are well placed to do so. 65 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 66

I would also like to see Jobcentre Plus devolved to the European Union Act 2011 so that in future any Wales, provided that the relevant budget was also devolved, EU treaty that transfers powers to the European Union and there has been talk of that happening. The closer to will be subject to a referendum, and never again will a home that all these matters can be dealt with, the better. Government be able to surrender sovereignty to Brussels The buzz word in European circles used to be “subsidiarity”. without the full consent of the British people. On The devolution of the jobcentre system to Wales would Europe, too, the Prime Minister and the Government be an example of subsidiarity at work. There was no have vetoed the fiscal pact. Ministers have swept away mention of it in the Queen’s Speech, but I understand pages and pages of planning regulations, but in so that there is talk of it happening. I can tell the House doing have still managed to protect the green belt, while that, if the system had been devolved, the Remploy providing local councillors and local communities with factories in Wales would not now be under threat; that the opportunity to design and develop their own local is for sure. I believe that that provides a stark example of plans free of top-down Whitehall directives such as what not to do in such circumstances. regional spatial strategies. I do not see any one particular policy in the Gracious The Government are introducing elected police Speech to develop economic growth, as the hon. Member commissioners and reforming public sector pensions for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) said in a speech that that would otherwise become unaffordable and unsustainable. concentrated on that point. I think economic growth Importantly, the Government have taken millions of the should have been in there. That said, there are some low paid out of income tax and have cut corporation good elements in the Gracious Speech, and I look tax. We inherited corporation tax at 28% , but by 2014, it forward to participating in the debates over the coming will be reduced to 22%. As a result, the UK will have the months to strengthen some aspects and bring them lowest main corporation tax rate in the G7 and the forward. There is, however, precious little to work on fourth lowest in the G20. To help businesses further, the when it comes to creating growth. I believe, as the hon. Government have introduced a £20 billion national loan Member for Hartlepool and others believe, that if cuts guarantee scheme to get cheaper loans to businesses. are necessary, we need a parallel movement to increase These have been bold reforms and they have all been economic growth—otherwise we are tilting to just one achieved without a Conservative majority. side. However, as I said, there are some good things in It is not only that the Prime Minister has had to this Queen’s Speech and I look forward to participating govern with a party that does not have a parliamentary in the debates over the coming weeks and months. majority, as the second reality is that the Government have no money—and it is not unreasonable to think 6.20 pm that a Government with no majority and no money will Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): I think that Members have problems. We should never forget that the Labour of all parties would endorse the support of the right Government left Britain with a deficit that, at £160 billion, hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) for was bigger than Greece’s. The Labour Government gave the Queen’s Speech proposal to introduce legislation to us the longest and deepest recession on record, so that establish an independent adjudicator to ensure that we were one of the first countries into recession and one supermarkets deal fairly and lawfully with suppliers. That of the last countries coming out of recession. We should is clearly one of many proposals that will have all-party never forget the telling letter left to his successor by the support. former Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne): In reflecting on the Queen’s Speech, it is probably “Chief Secretary, I’m afraid there is no money.Kind regards—and sensible to consider where we are and where we have good luck!” been. In recalling where we are, it is important to remember that the Prime Minister’s party does not have That pithy 13-word message—whether it was tongue in a parliamentary majority. After the general election, it cheek or not—well summed up the 13 years of the Labour was clearly in the nation’s interest to form a coalition. A Government. coalition, however, requires compromise every day. To govern, the Prime Minister has to agree policy initiatives Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): Does my with a political party very different from his own. In hon. Friend think it important to remind the House and practice, the coalition is working a lot better than many the country that we are only two years into this historic would have imagined. The fact is that the Conservative coalition Government, and considering the economic party did not win enough seats or votes to enable us to mess that we were left, it is remarkable how many deliver all our manifesto pledges. The solution is not positive things are in this Queen’s Speech? to blame the coalition, but to seek to win more votes next time. Tony Baldry: Yes, this Government have probably Notwithstanding the challenges of the coalition, the achieved more in two years than the Blair Government Government have, since the general election, embarked achieved in the whole of the first term of the Blair on a vast reforming programme unprecedented in modern Government. times to reduce the structural deficit and to put through reforms of the NHS that will enable GPs better to Gavin Shuker: Why does the hon. Gentleman believe design local NHS services for their patients. The that we are in the first double-dip recession for 37 years? Government have reformed primary and secondary education, introduced a new system of university tuition Tony Baldry: The hon. Gentleman has just heard me fees and completely overhauled the welfare system to comment on the legacy of his Government, so I find it ensure that as many people as possible can live responsible extraordinary that he has the cheek and audacity to ask and worthwhile lives free of state dependency. The such a question. The Labour Government left the country Government have capped housing benefit and passed with no money and the biggest debt crisis of our lifetime. 67 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 68

[Tony Baldry] more than they were earning, but who had done so with good reason to project a positive growth trajectory? In Indeed, over many years, this country built up massive hindsight, does he accept that the balance between debts, which we have to pay off. Of course, it is much more growth and cuts is wrong, and that we should act on the difficult to do that when so much of the rest of Europe mandate in Europe and invest more in growth and less is in recession. As I suspect France will soon demonstrate, in cuts? trying to pile debt upon debt is what got Britain and Europe into such difficulties in the first place. It did not Tony Baldry: Since the general election the Labour work for Britain over 13 years of a Labour Government party has engaged in a wonderful exercise in propounding and would not work now. The eurozone’s troubles are the motif that cuts are being made too far and too fast. caused by too much debt, the burden of excessive public In his autobiography, the former Chancellor of the spending and the burden of excessive public borrowing. Exchequer responsibly acknowledges the mistakes made It is not surprising that Government are seeking the by the last Labour Government. Opposition Members, approval of Parliament relating to the agreed financial however, have tried to develop a line that will enable stability mechanism within the euro area. them simultaneously to go around the City of London It is no mean task recovering from the deepest recession saying “We are being sensible and responsible about the in living memory, accompanied as it was by a debt deficit and about the need to reduce public spending” crisis. Our banks had too much debt; our households and, when campaigning, to present the impression privately, had too much debt; and the Government had too much on the doorstep of every household in the country, that, debt. As Sir Mervyn King, commenting on the performance given their own way, they would not reduce any individual of the last Government, observed in “The Today Lecture” item of public expenditure. That is a circle that the that he gave last week while the House was in recess: Opposition cannot square, and until they get real in “Bailing out the banks came too late though to prevent the explaining to the country and the markets how they will financial crisis from spilling over into the world economy. The actually tackle the budget deficit, they will not be taken realisation of the true state of the banking system led to a seriously as an Opposition, let alone as a Government collapse of confidence around the world...unemployment in Britain in waiting. rose by over a million....to many this will seem deeply unfair and it is. I can understand why so many people are angry.” We must never forget that the present Government inherited a budget deficit of 11%—bigger than Greece’s, One can speculate only that perhaps more than a million bigger than Spain’s, and bigger than Portugal’s. We all people may have lost their jobs unnecessarily because know that if we do not deal properly with our debts and the previous Government failed to act on warnings with the nation’s deficit it will be impossible to keep from the Bank of England. interest rates low, and that, quite apart from the benefit Notwithstanding the challenge, Britain has so far that low interest rates provide for businesses and those hung on to our triple-A credit rating. We have kept a lid paying mortgages, they offer us the best prospects of on borrowing costs and, compared with other countries getting out of our present difficult economic situation. in the eurozone, many of which are in the process of The Government and the Chancellor inherited a deeply changing leaders or just starting to tackle their debts, dysfunctional economy in which, all too often, the taxes we are thriving. generated by the financial and property sectors in the south paid for higher public spending in the north. As John Cryer: I thank the hon. Gentleman—or is it Sir Mervyn King so tellingly testified in his speech last right hon. Gentleman? [Interruption.] Well, I am sure week, it was an economy in which the City had been he should be right hon., and I shall put down an poorly policed, and in which growth was too dependent early-day motion tomorrow to achieve it! Returning to on debt. Making clear that we intended to have a the last election, is the hon. Gentleman aware that at credible fiscal plan has helped us in Britain to maintain that time both unemployment and the deficit were our top international credit rating and has brought falling, yet they are both now rising? The Office for interest rates to record lows, making family mortgages Budget Responsibility predicts that the deficit is going and business loans cheaper. Sticking to the deficit plan to be a lot higher at the end of this Parliament than was means that, having inherited a deficit larger than those predicted two years ago. of Spain or Greece, we have interest rates similar to those in Germany. Indeed, the IMF’s latest forecast for Tony Baldry: I think we need a bumper book of excuses the UK expects it to grow faster than France or Germany. from the Labour party, explaining why it was not responsible In considering where we are now, we should not forget for getting us into the difficulties we face. Let us develop that the recent Budget cut taxes for 24 million working a bumper book of excuses and put all these various people. contributions into it, saying “Nothing to do with us, guv”! That would be impressive. We must not be complacent. The UK has to rebalance its economy. We need a bigger Chris Bryant: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? private sector; we need more exports; and we need more investment. In short, we need to do everything possible Tony Baldry: I love the hon. Member for Rhondda to boost growth, competitiveness and jobs. (Chris Bryant)! He left the Chamber for a considerable period, has been back for two seconds, and now wants Geraint Davies: Does the hon. Gentleman accept that to intervene. However, because he is very supportive on the big debate is the balance between the need for Church matters, I am happy to give way to him. growth and the need for cuts to lower the deficit? Does he accept that, as we entered 2010, two thirds of the Chris Bryant: So much excitement was being engendered deficit was caused by the banks and the remaining third by the hon. Gentleman that I felt the need to return to by the then Labour Government—who had invested the Chamber. Then I started to listen, which is where 69 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 70

I made my mistake. I think the hon. Gentleman said cuts that this year we have already made the largest tax that the present Government had cut interest rates. Can cuts for more than a decade. I think everyone would he tell us when they did so? My understanding is that agree that we should be doing all that we can to help they have been entirely flat since they changed under a families who are trying to do the best for themselves. Labour rather than a Conservative Government. Of course we need to focus on jobs and economic growth. I am very glad that the proposals in a report by Tony Baldry: The hon. Gentleman was so excited by my constituent Adrian Beecroft for streamlining of the my speech that he misheard me. I made no reference to rules that make it hard for businesses to hire and fire the Government’s cutting interest rates. What I said was employees are to be taken up. Redundancy rules, that the Government’s financial and economic policies employment tribunals and rules about unfair dismissal had enabled us, and were still enabling us, to keep all need to be changed, as Adrian Beecroft’s well-researched interest rates low, while also ensuring that our interest and well-argued report clearly demonstrates. We should rates compared with those of Germany. I have absolutely be doing everything possible to encourage employers to no doubt that if we followed the economic policies expand and employ more people. advocated by Opposition Front Benchers, we would soon see interest rates, including mortgage interest rates, It is good news that the Government will reduce burdens soaring as a consequence. on businesses by repealing unnecessary legislation and legislating to limit the state inspection of businesses. It The Government have taken 2 million people out of is also good news that they will reform competition law tax, they have continued to freeze council tax, and—as in order to promote enterprise and fair markets. I think I have already observed—they have cut corporation tax that many businesses will welcome the news that there is so that we can compete with the rest of the world. to be strengthened regulation of the financial services Moreover, notwithstanding the challenges at home, Britain sector, and that the recommendations of the Independent is meeting its commitments overseas. We are behaving Commission on Banking are to be implemented. as one would expect of a permanent member of the UN Security Council, honouring our obligations in Afghanistan, I also welcome the proposals relating to pensions. seeking to reduce the threat of nuclear proliferation— I think everyone agrees on the need to modernise the particularly with Iran—and helping to bring greater pensions system and reform the state pension, and on stability to the horn of Africa. We are supporting the importance of creating a fair and sustainable foundation democrats in Libya, and, through the Department for for private saving. Governments must always seek to be International Development, we are helping to tackle on the side of those who save for retirement. I do not poverty around the world. think that anyone seriously believes that it is possible to avoid reforming public service pensions in line with the We should be proud that Britain is sticking to its aid recommendations of the Independent Public Service promises. We are a friend to the world’s poorest, and Pensions Commission. giving aid represents the best of British values. Some 40 years after they first promised to give 0.7% of their As co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on national income in aid, rich countries are less than carers, I particularly welcome the news that a draft Bill halfway there. Among the major economies, only we in is to be published to modernise adult care and support the UK are on target to meet our commitments. Some in England. The health White Paper of July 2010 promised of the more Poujadist elements of the press claim that legislation on adult social care in a second session of public support for aid is diminishing. I suspect that that the present Parliament. We have all had plenty of time is because some two thirds of the public think that we in which to read and digest the Dilnot report, which spend up to 20 times more on foreign aid than we recommended a system under which people would pay actually do. Once people know that our aid budget is the first chunk of nursing care costs and the state would just over a single penny in every pound spent by the pay after that. Given our increasingly ageing population, Government, they are much more supportive. we need clarity, and cross-party talks have been taking place for a long time. Understandably, the Session of Parliament since the general election has been unusually long, but it is still I also welcome the news that this is to be a draft Bill. impressive that the Government have passed more than Given such a major overhaul of social care legislation 30 main programme Bills since the election to help to that needs to stand the test of time, and given the reduce the UK’s budget deficit and reform our public number of Select Committee reports on the issue, it is services. Their programme has been guided by the three vital that we have an opportunity to get it right by core values of responsibility, fairness and freedom. The co-operating with the Government, the Opposition and, new Session will be shorter, so it will provide scope for indeed, every party in the House to produce legislation fewer Bills. I do not think that there was any doubt on that seeks to achieve the right outcomes for everyone the doorsteps about what our constituents want us to concerned. focus on. They want us to continue to get the economy Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): I agree about going, continue to improve the NHS, and continue to the need for cross-party agreement on care for the sort out welfare and education; and, importantly, they elderly. We do not want a repeat of what the Conservatives want us to demonstrate that we are on the side of those did when they were in opposition, however; they played who are working hard and doing the best they can for games over this issue to try to gain short-term political their families. advantage. What we need is a long-term solution. One of the best kept secrets of the last Budget is that the Chancellor raised personal allowances—the amount Tony Baldry: I think we all want a long-term solution, that people can earn before being taxed—so that 24 million which is why it is sensible for a draft Bill to be published middle-earning taxpayers will keep more of their money, so that everyone can agree the way forward, and so that and, from next April, 2 million low-paid people will not when a Bill is presented to the House it has all-party pay income tax at all. I can tell those who call for tax support. 71 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 72

[Tony Baldry] Greg Mulholland: I agree with the hon. Lady’s point, but does she also agree that we should have a fairer May I say in my capacity as Second Church Estates system of voting for Members of both Houses of Commissioner that I welcome the introduction of a Bill Parliament? to reduce the burdens on charities by enabling them to claim additional payments on small donations? Many Meg Hillier: Will the hon. Gentleman allow me to Members of Parliament are involved in charities, perhaps continue for a short while? as trustees or patrons. Church groups often rely on One of my principal objections to the current House Sunday collections and small giving by large numbers of Lords reform proposals is that I do not agree with of people. This move will allow extra support for charities. the argument that we are making the House of Lords Like all Members of Parliament, a fair amount of my more accountable by having Members elected for a constituency casework involves helping families with single term of 15 years without being able to stand for disabled children and children with special educational re-election. I cannot see how, in a democratic system, needs, so I greatly welcome the proposals in the Queen’s that is accountable. Members of the House of Commons Speech to introduce measures to improve provision have to face the electorate once every five years, and we for such children, and the arrangements for supporting have witnessed colleagues losing their seats as the electors children in family law cases and reforming court processes have made that decision based either on the individual for children in care. That is important, painstaking and or their party. That is true accountability, although it detailed work that should improve the lives of many has been weakened by proposals to change the boundaries children. every five years, as some electors will therefore never have the chance to vote again for the MP who has I do not think too much should be read into the fact represented them. The Government are doing great that the Queen’s Speech does not contain a specific damage by reducing the accountability of the Members proposal for a hybrid Bill on High Speed 2. The matter of both Houses. That is a backward step, but it is being is now before the High Court, which is having to dressed up as reform. We must reflect and improve on consider several applications on judicial review involving these proposals if we are to have real change. points of law on both the process and substance of I come at this subject as a democrat. I believe that it is the HS2 project. Notwithstanding any judicial review beyond the pale to have even an element of heredity in proceedings, however, I continue to hope that the the House of Lords, and that that is rightly out of kilter Government will reflect that the economic case for HS2 with modern attitudes. We must not rush headlong into simply does not stack up. trying to improve the situation and see any change as It is clear that in this Session of Parliament the an improvement. Instead, we must take measured steps Government will continue to strive for smaller government, and ensure that Parliament properly represents the people, freer competition and greater international trade, and and that we do not fill the House of Lords with stooges they will continue to pursue policies that have been who have been selected by party leaders and who never proven to work in the past and that will also work in have to face the electorate. the future. Although I look forward to our debates on this subject, I have to say that it was not raised even once on Chris Bryant: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. the doorsteps in my constituency during the most recent On 25 April, I told the House that the Leveson inquiry election campaign. Indeed, I am usually out on doorsteps had published certain information regarding meetings while on roving surgeries a couple of times every month, that had been held between Rupert Murdoch and the and the last time I canvassed opinion on this topic Prime Minister. I believed at the time that that was the everybody said they supported a democratically elected case, but it has subsequently turned out not to be true. House of Lords save for one person who was of Nigerian I have, of course, apologised to Lord Justice Leveson, origin and believed there was some merit in the hereditary but I thought I should take this opportunity to apologise principle. His was a lone voice, however. We need to the House as well. I hope the apology will be accepted. democracy, but not in the way that is being proposed. I had no intention of misleading the House; that was The Queen’s Speech was a big disappointment. When purely inadvertent. I was watching it, I suddenly realised that it was nearly over, but many of the issues I had hoped it would Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I am grateful address had not been mentioned. It is flimsy and expresses to you, Mr Bryant, for your point of order and for no compelling vision of what the Government want to putting that apology on the record. achieve for this country. We agree with the opening sentence, but its sentiments were not backed up by proposed legislation. There is also no strategic approach 6.42 pm to the economic crisis. We repeatedly hear about the Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ need to tackle the deficit, but there are other issues that Co-op): I had not intended to talk about Lords reform need to be tackled alongside dealing appropriately with today, but I have been provoked to do so by the right the Government’s finances. hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark The Queen’s Speech demonstrates that the Government (Simon Hughes). He said that one of the reasons for are out of touch and unfair, and we are also increasingly House of Lords reform was to encourage more gender seeing signs of incompetence. The Prime Minister diversity in the Lords. He is no longer in his place, but I acknowledged that the economy is a higher priority would point out to him that there are more men in the than House of Lords reform, but the Queen’s Speech House of Commons today than the number of women does little to tackle the economic problems, and I am ever elected. We must look at parliamentary reform particularly concerned for the businesses in my constituency across the board, not just in the House of Lords. and about unemployment. 73 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 74

The unfairness is seen in the retention of the cut in I hope that the children and families Bill will talk the 50p tax rate, helping the top 1% of earners in this about ensuring that children are protected and supported. country, while many of my constituents are keen to That seems to be the general feeling. I am concerned, work but are unable to find the extra eight hours they however, that although the Government are considering will need to continue to receive tax credits. At one end, protecting and supporting certain groups of children therefore, families who are doing everything they should— on the one hand, actions by other Ministers on they are working hard and trying to work more, but are safeguarding—such as the suggestion that faith leaders unable to find those extra hours—are losing out. What should be exempt from vetting and, if necessary, exempt they need is some extra hours from their employer, as it from being barred from working with children—are a is currently very hard to find another job. At the other very worrying step. We must be vigilant about ensuring end, however, millionaires are saving thousands of pounds that we do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. in tax. That does not strike me or my constituents The Government are very keen to talk about rolling as fair. back the frontiers of the state and rolling back red tape, Fortunately for the Government, I do not have sufficient but as far as the protection of children is concerned, time to dwell on their increasing incompetence. I might when we put our children—and vulnerable adults, too—in mention, however, the border controls fiasco that has the presence of a stranger, we need some surety that been going on since last autumn. It is continuing now, that stranger has been properly vetted. It is not acceptable which is especially serious given that we are in the to rule out one group simply on the basis that they are run-up to the Olympics. I might also mention the youth faith leaders. unemployment figures. The Government’s incompetence Businesses in Hackney have been struggling for in that regard will affect a generation of our young some time. We have had some great successes—Silicon people and their families. There are also the ministerial roundabout is in my constituency—but they are largely dalliances with BSkyB, which demonstrate a real lack of small start-ups and are finding it hard to grow. We have appropriateness, to put it politely. some very innovative business models in a very innovative There were some announcements in the Gracious part of London, but businesses in Hackney are struggling Speech that I welcome. I have long been a supporter of to get loans and even, in many cases, an overdraft the Green investment bank. My big concern is that it facility from their bank. The Prime Minister spoke is being introduced too late, even though there will be earlier about Project Merlin, saying that it had worked £3 billion of funding—although not all of it is certain. and that the loan guarantee fund was generous. It is not Will the bank be able to move quickly enough to ensure so much the level of a loan that is an issue, however, but we secure the green investment required to help businesses the fact that banks will not loan in the first place. There grow and create the jobs we so desperately need? The is an opportunity that has perhaps not yet been missed environmental ship might have already sailed to other in the Gracious Speech—we will see whether it has ports in Germany, China and other countries, whose when we have the detail of the legislation—to consider Governments are far ahead of ours. alternative funding methods for businesses. Innovators I also welcome the flexible parental leave proposals. out there are prepared to fund innovative businesses in It is important that people have that choice, but it must a different way and we must ensure that they are properly be couched in the right way so that women do not feel supported and regulated so that investors and businesses forced to go back to work and pass over the care of the are protected. There are opportunities for more mutuals child, whom they may still be nursing, to their partner. in the banking sector, which ought to focus on investment The principle of allowing families freedom over how in their own areas, helped by their understanding of they manage their own affairs is important, however. their locality. They would, of course, be owned by their Overall, the Government’s economic policy is hurting members. and it is not working—not in my constituency. That brings me on to one thing that was missing from Unemployment is rising. It is the worst we have seen for the Gracious Speech. As a Co-op and Labour MP, I 16 years and of course, youth unemployment—I am on was keen to hear the co-operatives consolidation Bill the record as having spoken about this a number of debated during the next Session, but it is not here. times before—is a real scourge of our society. Where has that Bill gone? It would have been supported There are a couple of proposals I welcome. I welcome across the House. The previous Government did a great the intention to ensure through the children and families deal to change the law on co-operatives and to provide Bill that there is an all-through assessment for children new legislation that made it easier to set them up, but and young adults. Too often, my constituents have as that was done piecemeal through different Acts of experienced breaks in the support for their children, Parliament, there was room to bring it all together. either at the age at which they transfer to a different Consolidation Bills, by their nature, are complicated school or when they transition into adulthood. Personal and difficult, but it would have provided the platform budgets provide a real opportunity for those young for the introduction of yet more opportunities for mutuals people and their families to have control as long as there and co-operatives. There is a feeling across this House, are safeguards for the many families with whom I deal shared by members within every party—although it is who would not be able to manage those budgets themselves. not necessarily the view of every party—that there We must not throw out the baby with the bathwater and needs to be a different way of doing business in this although I welcome the personal budgets, we must country. If there is a better way of doing business than ensure that there is a safety net and support for those mutuals, which are owned by their members, who benefit who are unable to do the necessary paperwork and to from and see the direct outcomes of that ownership, manage the employment side of it. The detail will Idonotknowwhatitis. matter if the good intentions in the Bill are to be met, There is no commitment in the Queen’s Speech to and I look forward to working with my colleagues on introduce any mutual models at all, as far as we can see. my Front Bench to ensure that those needs are considered. The water Bill would have offered such an opportunity 75 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 76

[Meg Hillier] black men are out of work, which is a staggering figure and much higher than the general norm. It risks becoming and the energy Bill might have offered opportunities for a real divide in this country if it is not tackled. It might some mutual solutions, as would, of course, the banking not be an issue for every hon. Member in this House—as Bill. We need new measures on demutualisation and we the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) have already missed an opportunity through the selling said, his is not a kaleidoscope county—but let me tell off to the highest bidder, rather than remutualisation, hon. Members that my constituency is a kaleidoscope of Northern Rock. If the House is united on the need constituency, as are many others. It is a great strength of for banking reform, why not join that up with the idea our area, but we must not have one group of people so of the mutual model and ensure that businesses as well badly affected by Government policy. as individuals are supported by mutuals? Other issues have not been tackled. Housing benefit Another element missing from the Bill that is a concern levels have been cut, rents have continued to rise by a to my constituents and to me is the antisocial behaviour great deal in my constituency and house prices have legislation that we had hoped might be introduced. The risen, too. That means that my constituents face a real message is very confused. One whole year ago, the challenge on housing and homes and nothing in this Government’s consultation on antisocial behaviour finished. Queen’s Speech will tackle that, which is a serious They have done the work, yet 12 months on there is no mistake. It demonstrates again how the Government Bill in the Gracious Speech to deal with those issues. A are very much out of touch with what really matters to year ago, the Government all but announced their people. Families want to be in a position to support intention to end antisocial behaviour orders, but there is themselves and my constituents’ requirements are very no Bill to do that and the police and residents are left limited in many respects. They are not as demanding as confused about where they stand. they should be, I believe, but they want a job, a good The Government regularly pass the buck to local school for their child, a health service that will work police forces when challenged on crime issues, but they and to know that they can afford a roof over their are robbing them of the tools to do the job. We know heads. The job and the roof over their heads are particular that ASBOs require better enforcement and we accept challenges at the moment, so although we have these that they are not perfect in every way, but they could be esoteric debates in the Westminster village about House strengthened to deal better with the problem of repeat of Lords reform—an issue not once raised on the victimisation. The Government should be trying to doorstep—and as much as I think we need to reform build on what is in place and on what has been shown to the House of Lords, right now the energy of this place work, rather than starting again from scratch. We hear should be focused on how to move this country forward, that the Government has a plan for a community trigger, invest in jobs and growth and ensure that we create job which would only guarantee action if five different opportunities and homes for constituents in my constituency households reported the same incident. For me, if one and up and down the country. person complains that incident of antisocial behaviour needs to be tackled. It should be taken seriously and 6.59 pm investigated. Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con): I congratulate We also have an alphabet soup of other proposals. the Government on the Gracious Speech and the measures The crime prevention injunction and criminal behaviour in it. There are two proposals about which I am orders do not do what they say on the tin. I know from concerned—House of Lords reform and the televising experience with gang injunctions in Hackney that it can of court proceedings—which I shall address in a moment. take a very long time for agencies on the ground to get First, however, I have to say how lucky we are to have a used to the new powers, for the Crown Prosecution monarchy in this country. We tried a presidency under Service to deal with them properly, for courts to understand Tony Blair, and what a disaster it was: indeed, we are them and for them to embed. ASBOs might not have still suffering the consequences of that presidency, which been perfect, but they were in the language of my took us into an illegal war with Iraq, destroying the constituents and of constituents up and down the country. United Kingdom. How I wish that I and the other People understood them and so did the system. To 17 Members of the House who wished to impeach him throw them out without having proper plans in place to at that time had been successful. Now, he is going replace them is a big mistake. around not only our country but the rest of the world My constituency has a number of challenges. We still earning money at our expense. have heard from others about youth unemployment. In my constituency, one in four young people under the Charlie Elphicke: Has my hon. Friend noticed that as age of 24 is out of work. Our overall unemployment well as earning money at our expense Tony Blair does rate is 12.7%. Those challenges have a major impact on not seem to pay an awful lot of tax either? child poverty. There are still children in my constituency who turn up to school after a long summer holiday Mr Amess: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of malnourished in September because their parents have course, Tony Blair gave evidence at the inquiry last year chaotic lifestyles and have been unable to get them fed. and I hope that when the report comes out, the matter We all support measures to get people into work, but to will be dealt with. To have him as a special peace envoy have a whole generation of young people who are in the middle east is absolutely ridiculous. unable to get work or work experience will, I fear, lead So, I rejoice in the fact that we have a monarchy. I to greater challenges for their children. always think that Conservative Queen’s Speeches are I do not have time to go into the figures for the ethnic better than Labour Queen’s Speeches and today is no breakdown of unemployment, but let us just take the exception. I am delighted that we heard today that the example of young black men. About 55% of young Prime Minister is determined to reduce the deficit and 77 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 78 restore economic stability. I enjoyed the speech of my I hope that the House will be interested in the telephone hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) call I got regarding the Leveson inquiry. I thought, who was right to remind the House what a disastrous “Fantastic—someone has hacked my phone: I’m in the economic legacy Labour left us. money.” But instead I was told that my phone number I absolutely agree with the remarks that a number of had been found in a journalist’s phone book. Well, for Members made about policies that we talk about in this goodness’ sake—so what. I am sure that many journalists House that are not mentioned on the doorstep by our have our phone numbers. I was very disappointed to constituents. Last Monday, some Conservative Members learn that my phone had not been hacked. Frankly, I got together and had a party to celebrate the 20th cannot think that some of the politicians whose phones anniversary of the election of a Conservative Government were hacked would have had any conversation worth on 9 April 1992. At that party, which the Prime Minister listening to. I am interested in colleagues’ phone calls attended, we were delighted to launch a pamphlet called only if they happen to concern me. There is an obsession “Basildon—Against all Odds”. The Prime Minister with hacking at the moment. The hon. Member for generously referred to the victory in Basildon, and I was Rhondda (Chris Bryant) just came and apologised about delighted that he visited my old constituency yesterday something to do with the Leveson inquiry, but none of and talked broadly about policies because I think we our constituents are raising these matters on the doorstep. need to reflect on the things that took us back to Honestly, the amount that this inquiry is going to cost government in 1992. There in Basildon, 20 years ago, us—millions of pounds—is crazy. voters locally wanted to support what were then the Similarly, no one on the doorstep is mentioning House Conservative party’s policies. What were those policies? of Lords reform. I go back to the point that what Giving every woman, man and child the opportunity to people were concerned about in 1992 was the fact that make the most of their God-given talents. I know that they did not trust the noble Lord Kinnock and the 20 years later our country and the world have changed Labour party to run the country because of their economic but I say to my Conservative colleagues that we should policies. reflect on the policies that brought us back to government in 1992 and I recommend that they read “Basildon— John Cryer: On economic competence, I hope that Against all Odds”, which is a very good pamphlet. the hon. Gentleman had a good celebration in 1992 but does he remember that a few months later we had Black Meg Hillier rose— Wednesday when £20 billion was spent on propping up the currency and interest rates rose twice in a day, Geraint Davies rose— ending up at 15%? Does he recall that with the same fondness? Mr Amess: Ladies first. Mr Amess: I remember that only too well because I Meg Hillier: The hon. Gentleman might regret giving happened to be in Japan with the now Foreign Secretary way. It seems to me that he is living in the past. Why is who was then the parliamentary private secretary to the he having to celebrate an electoral victory from 1992? Is Chancellor, whereas I was the PPS to Michael Portillo, it because there were not enough electoral victories to and we got called back. The hon. Gentleman wants to celebrate on Thursday? lead me down a track to do with Europe and shadowing the Deutschmark, but I shall not succumb to that. Mr Amess: I am very happy to talk about Thursday. I congratulate the Government on the banking reform I think that during the whole day the BBC’s parliamentary Bill. Shortly after the election, the Chancellor announced programme broadcast pieces about the 1992 election. It the creation of the Independent Commission on Banking, was something worth celebrating. which was asked to consider structural and related Speaking of irrelevant issues, last week I got a phone non-structural reforms to the UK banking sector to call from someone about the Leveson inquiry and so promote financial stability and competition. Any reforms I got quite excited. should be implemented by 2019. No doubt there will be lots of discussion about this legislation, which I hope Geraint Davies: On the 1992 election, will the hon. will at long last bring about fundamental reform of the Gentleman give way? banking system. It will include the ring-fencing of retail banking and measures on capital adequacy requirements. Mr Amess: Of course. There will be radical reforms in the Bill which are needed entirely because the Labour Government and Geraint Davies: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the previous Prime Minister completely destroyed the in 1992 his party was laying the siege for 1997—doubling banking sector through what went on with the Financial crime, cutting the health service and having 15% interest Services Authority. They should be absolutely— rates with soaring debt and unemployment? That is [Interruption.] Some Labour Members, although not precisely the same template as his Government are all, have a very short memory about what happened at adopting now, so for once I find myself agreeing with that time. The financial crisis originated in the financial him. sector and so I believe that regulation is very important. London is the capital of the financial world and we Mr Amess: I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman need to lead the globe in these reforms. says but I am sure that you would get a little tired, Mr Deputy Speaker, if I were to rehearse all that has Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The hon. Gentleman gone on in this place in terms of the Conservative party has mentioned the legislation on changes to banking, leadership. which we agree with and look forward to. Does he think 79 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 80

[Jim Shannon] a measure on adoption, but we badly need updated legislation. It will remove the absurd barriers that make the banks should be listening to what is happening now the adoption process difficult. A new six-month limit so that they can make changes in anticipation of the on care proceedings will be introduced in England and legislative changes to enable small and medium-sized Wales, and the law will be changed to ensure that more businesses to acquire the money they should already children have a relationship with their father after family be able to get but which is being denied them at the break-up. All Members get letters from constituents moment? We hope the new legislation will give those about that difficult issue. businesses that opportunity. I welcome the provision for mothers and fathers to swap their parental leave allowance after the birth of a Mr Amess: I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. child. The Leader of the Opposition said that the Some of the banks have forgotten everything that happened. Opposition would support the measures. The Prime They are not lending particularly to small businesses Minister is right to be passionate about giving children and I agree with him that they should act now rather a good start in life. than waiting until the Bill becomes an Act. I welcome the measures to deal with the royal succession The right hon. Member for—it is a Welsh constituency that were announced by Her Majesty in the Gracious —[HON.MEMBERS: “Dwyfor Meirionnydd.”] Well, it is Speech. Very much in the future, when there is a change in Wales. I am glad that the right hon. Member for of monarch we shall have King Charles, but if Princess Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) mentioned the draft Anne had been the oldest child she would not have Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill. In 2008, the Competition succeeded. Anyone who knows Princess Anne applauds Commission conducted an inquiry into the UK grocery her hard work; she does a wonderful job. I am delighted market, because of concerns that supermarkets were that there will be a change to the law on royal succession. exploiting their supply chains. The right hon. Gentleman As a Catholic, I suppose I am biased, but I am also was spot-on with the points he raised. The draft Bill was delighted that Catholics will finally be allowed to marry published last year and will establish an adjudicator. into the royal family. The right hon. Gentleman expressed some concerns about the powers, and another Member—I think it was I am already sick to death of hearing about Lords the hon. Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker)—asked reform, even before we spend 18 months going on about whether they should be in the Bill. It is good that an it. If anyone wants to know what is wrong with the adjudicator will be appointed, with the power to investigate House of Lords, it is the Labour party, which completely a grocery firm with revenue in excess of £1 billion if it is messed up the House of Lords without a plan for suspected of breaching the code relating to its suppliers. dealing with it. I do not address my remarks to Labour Members elected in recent years, but it was a bit rich to It is vital that we do everything we can to help small listen to speech after speech from Labour Members businesses in these troubling times of austerity. That who condemned the House of Lords and everything it certainly includes grocery suppliers that are often family-run stood for, when the next minute they accepted a peerage. local businesses. There is no doubt that the major There is no consistency. supermarkets have a monopoly in the United Kingdom grocery market, so I welcome any steps to prevent them When the Labour Government took office in 1997, from using their powers to leave their suppliers out of they thought for narrow class reasons that they would pocket. get rid of the House of Lords—all those hereditaries, all terribly posh—but there was no actual plan for Jim Shannon: The hon. Gentleman is right to mention reform. As a Conservative Member of Parliament, I am the importance of having a grocery ombudsman. Over totally against the Americanisation of our system, so the last three years, 3,000 small businesses related to I am opposed to a wholly elected second Chamber, farming and the supply of large stores have gone out of which would definitely be in competition with this business. That is a real concern. Does he feel that place. I agree with the hon. Member for Hackney South legislative change will prevent that and does he think it and Shoreditch who asked how it could be fair to have will come quickly? Members elected for 15 years. It certainly is not fair. I hope that we shall not waste hours and hours of precious Mr Amess: I believe that the Bill will achieve that end time arguing about House of Lords reform. I know that and that it will be effective. I know how tough things the Liberals are keen on it— have been for farmers, particularly in Northern Ireland. It is important to have a balanced grocery market, Martin Horwood rose— where suppliers get a fair deal. There will be further benefits for consumers, because they will be able to buy Mr Amess: Herewego. the best of British produce, which will make the market more sustainable. Martin Horwood: On the subject of consistency, House The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch of Lords reform was in the Conservative manifesto. (Meg Hillier), among others, mentioned adoption and Surely, if we all agree on a predominantly elected second family matters. Pro-life Members will have been sad to Chamber, it should not take that much time. hear that Phyllis Bowman died at the weekend. With the late Lord Braine, she did iconic work on pro-life matters Mr Amess: I suppose the get-out clause is that we did and I pay tribute to her. not have a solely Conservative Government, but a coalition, I was delighted to see that there will be a Bill on so there was a compromise. I certainly was never in adoption and family matters. Some years ago, my hon. favour of reform. In the other place, there are women Friend the Member for Canterbury (Mr Brazier) introduced and men of wonderful experience, who bring great 81 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 82 value as a revising Chamber. I am totally opposed to reputations, and that includes those of Members of having the second Chamber in competition with this Parliament. I know that we are No. 1 on some people’s place. hate list, but the overwhelming majority of Members of Parliament are here for the right reason and do a jolly Charlie Elphicke: My hon. Friend is being extraordinarily good job, and I am getting a little fed up with our being generous in taking interventions. Is not part of the continually insulted and considered fair game, which problem that the House of Lords used to be a brilliant I think is very wrong indeed. I want slander on the revising Chamber but then Tony Blair, who is now to be internet to be prevented. Her Majesty said that legislation found in various parts of the world making money and would be laid before us. I know that we already have not paying tax, stuffed it full of cronies and wrecked the 14 Bills and four further measures, but I hope that there flavour and excellence of that House? He made it the will be time to introduce legislation to deal with slander broken place it is today because of Labour’s galactic on the internet relating to comments on media articles. incompetence in government. I think that there should be much tighter controls and more severe punishments. Mr Amess: I agree with my hon. Friend that there are There is no point in any of us being Members of now so many peers that apparently they cannot all even Parliament unless we have some real power, and over find a place for prayers. It is crazy. There are too many recent years our heads have been down and we have lost Members in the House of Lords—nearly 1,000. It is a so much of our power, so we need to reassert it. I hope complete mess and I do not want this Chamber to waste that the Government will consider introducing a measure hours and hours talking about something on which we to enable far greater scrutiny of public bodies. I will give will never agree. It is certainly not No. 1 in the list of the House one example. I have been on a mission in priorities of the British people. relation to Essex police—two Essex colleagues on the Government Benches are present—because I knew from I welcome the proposal for a national crime agency. the outset that the chief constable of Essex was chosen My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and from a shortlist of one, which is absolutely outrageous. Howden (Mr Davis) is an expert in such matters and I It has happened and nothing has been done about it; we shall not compete with him; I will speak in more simplistic just accepted it because we are more concerned about terms. Phasing out the National Policing Improvement hacking and reform of the House of Lords. How could Agency is a good thing. Creating a new national crime the Essex police authority allow the chief constable to agency will help further to tackle serious crime in the be chosen from a shortlist of just one? That is unacceptable. UK. As we have seen over the past year, our border forces and urban police forces can be overwhelmed, so Charlie Elphicke: Is that not why elected police and the establishment of the agency will help to ease the crime commissioners are such a good idea, because we burdens and protect us against one of the most serious can get the right chief constables and make police forces threats facing this country—organised crime. It costs much more effective and responsive in cracking down the United Kingdom between £20 million and £40 million on crime? in social and economic terms, and affects the most vulnerable people in society. Only yesterday, we heard Mr Amess: My hon. Friend is absolutely right and the judgment in the terrible case of girls who had been that is what I was about to say. I hope that in November groomed. I hope that the Bill can deal with that sort of there will be a huge turnout in Essex and we will elect a issue and tackle it head-on. I hope the whole House will very good commissioner. come together to support such welcome measures. Another point about Essex police is that I have had to On the defamation Bill, I do not know how honourable resort to using the Freedom of Information Act to get colleagues feel, but I am certainly libelled morning, confirmation that the chief constable was chosen from noon and night but do not have the money to defend a shortlist of one. Why should a Member of Parliament myself. A range of concerns has been raised about the have to use the Freedom of Information Act? Then detrimental effects that the current law on libel is having there is the closure of police stations. When the Leigh- on freedom of expression, particularly in academic on-Sea police station was closed there was no consultation. and scientific debate, the work of non-governmental The consultation took place in the car park of a large organisations and investigative journalism, and about supermarket in the constituency of my hon. Friend the the extent to which this jurisdiction has become a Member for Rochford and Southend East (James magnet for libel claimants. I do not want to upset my Duddridge), which is on the other side of town, and hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and received about 20 responses, which meant that they West Devon (Mr Cox), who is a Queen’s counsel, but could close the police station. That is not good enough, the law has become so expensive in this country that I which is why I think Members of Parliament should get do not know how ordinary women and men can possibly power back from some of these public bodies. I have defend themselves. been trying to find out more information about Essex Freedom of speech is a cornerstone of our constitution, probation service, the Crown Prosecution Service in but it does not mean that people should be able to ride Essex and a range of public bodies. Members of Parliament roughshod over the reputations of others. When someone are scrutinised all the time and have to submit themselves writes to the newspapers these days, the letter is published to the electorate. Why cannot we have more scrutiny of on the internet and in no time at all there are very at least the management of public bodies? I hope that insulting comments posted on the website, particularly the Government might consider introducing a Bill to if the letter is about a politician, and we do not seem to deal with that matter. have any legislation to deal with that. Therefore, our I said earlier in my speech that I was concerned about defamation laws must strike the right balance between the proposal to introduce the televising of sentencing in protecting freedom of speech and protecting people’s major criminal trials. I thought that the right hon. 83 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 84

[Mr Amess] 7.29 pm

Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd, who mentioned it John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): It is always earlier, was going to agree with me entirely, but he threw a pleasure to follow the sane and balanced observations me when he said that it works well in Scotland. As far as of the hon. Member for Southend West (Mr Amess). I am concerned, once the TV cameras get into our Given that the hon. Gentleman brought up the issue of courts it will not end there. Coverage will get wider and the Iraq war and the former Prime Minister, Tony Blair, soon we will be like America, with coverage for the trial I remind him that I voted against the war—I think of the basketball player who shot someone, or whatever seven times, but certainly six. I did not have any particular it was he did, and the cameras panning across to see the prescience or a crystal ball, but some of us could very jurors. I think that cameras would be a very retrograde early on see that it was going to be an horrendous step. mistake. It was entirely wrong, and we opposed it every step of the way. I remember the hon. Gentleman asking the then Prime Mr Llwyd: I clearly understand the hon. Gentleman’s Minister during Prime Minister’s questions: fears, but if he looks at what has happened in Scotland over the past seven or eight years, he will see that “What plans he has to visit Southend, West.” televised coverage is strictly confined to sentencing remarks The answer was: and possibly the summing up by the judge and there is “I have no plans to visit Southend—and I rather think that the nothing whatsoever outside that remit. Given that there hon. Gentleman did not either, until he saw the writing on the will be only an experimentation period, his fears might wall in Basildon.—[Official Report, 19 May 1999; Vol. 331, well be allayed. Clearly, I would share his concerns if c. 1061.] coverage were to be extended in any way, but it is That might explain his criticism of the former Prime limited to an experimental period and confined strictly Minister. to such use. I, like many hon. Members, note that House of Lords reform is not exactly the centre of my universe. I do not Mr Amess: I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is lie awake at night fretting about it, but a number of right—he obviously knows much more about the proposal speeches today have prompted me to make a few comments and where it came from than I do—but I am puzzled on it. The right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old about who thought it was a good idea; has the proposal Southwark (Simon Hughes), at the end of his remarks, somehow come from the media? At first, televising this seemed to imply that the Government will come along place was going to be static, but all that has gone out with proposals meaning that the new upper House, the window. Once we let the TV cameras into our whatever it is called, will be 100% elected. I suspect that courts, it will become an opportunity for voyeurism of that is wrong, and that the proportion will be 60%, 70% the worst possible kind. I cannot understand why we or perhaps 80%—a range of options, just like the previous need to see the judge deliver the sentence. Will it be Government gave the House some years ago. shown on “News at 10”, or will there be a dedicated channel? I have always voted for 100% elected when the opportunity has come along. I have never sought that opportunity, but when it has come along I have always Mr Llwyd: The limited televising would help with voted for 100% and against anything less than that, and, legal education and it would help practitioners. For if the opportunity arises again, I personally—I do not example, when we had the awful riots in August, some speak on behalf of my party—will oppose anything less courts were not sure how to deal with the circumstances, than 100% elected, although I would rather not spend which were exceptional. If anything of that kind happened any time on the issue at all. again—God forbid—televised remarks of sentencing in the courts would be available so that people would On a related issue, the Chamber that requires more know exactly where they are going and what the going urgent reform than the House of Lords, which after all rate is. It would be a deterrent to those members of the is just a revising Chamber, is this one. I agree with the public who might otherwise get involved and it would earlier comments of my hon. Friend the Member for also have an educative process. I seem to be defending Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier), but another the Government on this, and I really should not be. problem with this Chamber—to which many references have been made for many years—is that power has flowed from it to Whitehall, Downing street and Brussels Mr Amess: I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is for about 40 years or even more. right, but I have grave concerns about the proposal. In conversation a while ago with the right hon. Member Will it be like the guillotine, with everyone standing for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis), I mentioned around gathering heads, and will it become gory? We that power had been flowing from the elected Chamber will have to see what happens. to unelected institutions for the past 40 years, but he In conclusion, I welcome the measures in the Gracious said, “It’s been much longer than that. Power has been Speech concerning the energy Bill, the interception of taken away from the House of Commons since roughly communications Bill—I thought that a co-operative 1880.” I do not know whether he was around in 1880; Bill would be included—public sector pensions, individual I certainly was not! I am sure that if he had been he electronic registration, EU accession treaties and the would have told MPs then that their proposals were an justice and security Green Paper. I think that this will be absolute outrage and a betrayal of the parliamentary a year of real celebrations for our country. We have the principle, but prior to that Back Benchers dictated all diamond jubilee, the Olympic games and the Gracious business on the Floor of the House. It never happened Speech leading our country back to recovery. again; it was taken away during that period. 85 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 86

In the relatively recent past, we have had the Jopling me, having been told, “You’ve got to move to Walsall, proposals, in 1994 under John Major’s Government, and next Tuesday, by the way.” That was on a Thursday, followed by the more rigid measure of timetabling, and she was being told that she had to move to Walsall which was introduced post 1997 and which, by the way, the following Tuesday. In a civilised society, that is a I also voted against. Those two things—particularly the pretty appalling way to treat somebody. Jopling proposals—have cemented a relationship between That brings me on to economic insecurity. Since the this place and Whitehall which is entirely unbalanced general election alone, 70,000 to 80,000 construction and needs to be brought back into balance. jobs have been lost in Britain, and in fact it is probably That leads me on to an incident that occurred when more than that by now; those are the latest figures I I was an MP previously, for Hornchurch, with Eric have. The stagnation of the economy is also an enormous Forth, the much missed, late Member for Bromley and worry to an awful lot of my constituents. Chislehurst, who was a great parliamentarian and a On the eurozone, the Government, rather than helping terrific speaker. He was speaking against everything to prop up a currency that is clearly collapsing, should that had happened since 1994, against timetabling and encourage countries such as Greece to leave the euro guillotining, and I pointed out from a sedentary position and get their economies moving again, because that is on the Government Benches that he had actually supported the best way to stimulate our economy—through exports the Jopling proposals. I probably used some fairly Anglo- to eurozone countries, which at the moment do not have Saxon language when doing so, but Eric’s response was, the cash or resources to buy goods from this country or “Well, I regret it now and wish I had voted against others, such as Germany and North America. The idea, them.” Funnily enough, he was in opposition at the which the Prime Minister reiterated this afternoon, that time. we are not bailing out the eurozone is simply a myth. I shall move on to two issues that do concern my We are giving increasing amounts of money to the constituents. Like many in the Chamber, I have worn International Monetary Fund, which then hands over myself out over the past few months knocking on increasing amounts of money to the eurozone, so the doors, and, as everybody else who has spoken today has idea that we are not in one way or another bailing out said, nobody on the doorstep or at street surgeries eurozone countries is an absolute myth. It simply is mentioned House of Lords reform, but two issues that happening. were mentioned day in, day out were, first, housing and There was also a line in the Queen’s Speech that quite the appalling state of accommodation—certainly in my disturbed me. It stated: constituency and many others in England, Scotland “My Government will seek the approval of Parliament relating and Wales—and, secondly, economic insecurity. Those to the agreed financial stability mechanism within the euro area.” two things were right at the top of the agenda day in, There must be elements of the fiscal compact within day out during the campaign. that stability mechanism, and as sure as eggs is eggs the The Queen’s Speech mentions housing in passing, fiscal compact will be included in the Bill that this place I suppose. It states: and the other place will have to pass. In reality, that too “My Government will strive to improve the lives of children will go in the direction of the eurozone, meaning the and families.” centralisation of power in Brussels, increased austerity The problem is that the lives of children and families in throughout Europe and increased poverty. I find it my constituency are not being improved; they are going extraordinary that Governments in western Europe will in the opposite direction. In Leyton and, to some extent, do almost anything to prop up the euro. in Leytonstone, both of which are in my constituency, we are seeing almost Victorian levels of overcrowding, Charlie Elphicke: The hon. Gentleman has long been with appalling cowboy private landlords treating people known in this place for his passion on the matter of terribly, and the waiting list in Waltham Forest, which Europe. Does he believe that, with the elections in makes up most of my constituency, is now more than Greece and France and the problems in Spain, the euro 20,000. is sustainable however much money is now pumped into it? Meg Hillier: I do not know whether my hon. Friend has the same problem in his constituency as I have in John Cryer: My own view is that, no, the euro is not mine, but, with the housing benefit cap, many of my sustainable, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, rather constituents, including working families and those with than helping to sustain what is effectively a broken children, are being forced out of their homes and I am system, should encourage countries such as Greece and not sure where in London they can go to find Spain to find a way out and a way of exerting power accommodation at the right level in the private sector. over their own economies, because that is how the Surely this too is a concern and rather flies in the face of eurozone more disparately is going to move forward. his generous reading of that one line in the Queen’s I remember listening to an interview with a European Speech. Commissioner on the “Today” programme a few months ago, just as Greece was being plunged into the crisis John Cryer: I completely agree, and I see exactly the that it is still in. The questioner said that there was same experience. Owing also to the acute shortage of increasing unemployment and poverty in Greece—even public housing in my constituency, people are being then, there were reports of malnutrition among Greek told, “You’ll have to move to Walsall,” “You’ll have to children—and asked whether it was fair that the people move to Derby,”—here, there, right across the country. involved should pay the price for saving the euro. The One woman who was in emergency accommodation Commissioner said, “Well, life’s not fair.” That is and had suffered a bereavement—her husband had died extraordinary. She expanded on the comment, because and her daughter was in a terrible state—came to see she realised that she had made a mistake and let the cat 87 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 88

[John Cryer] and I support those wholeheartedly, as do my constituents. When they speak to me in the street or I knock on their out of the bag, but her initial comment was that life was doors, they generally say that they support the benefit not fair—in other words, that ordinary people had to cap and changes to entitlement programmes. Similarly, pay the price for mistakes made by the wealthy and I am delighted that the Government have been able to powerful. freeze council tax, which doubled under the previous Sadly, our Government are pursuing a slightly less frenetic Government, for the past two years. version of the “Eurosadist” economic policy practised However, there have also been things that I have not in Greece, Spain, Portugal and one or two other countries. felt comfortable with and which I do not think have in Yet what we are seeing everywhere across Europe is a any way rebalanced fairness or rewarded those who try rebellion against that austerity.The latest example, obviously, hard and want to do the best for themselves and their is France, where Hollande has specifically rejected the families. That is why I have voted against a number of austerity programme. In Greece, the party that came measures, although I have voted with the Government from nowhere to second in the poll has specifically on the vast majority of occasions—about 90% of the rejected the programme and is now in the process of time. In any other job, I would be a slavish loyalist out trying to form a Government. for promotion, but in this place if a Government Member What people told me continually on the doorsteps votes a couple of per cent. of the time against the during the recent campaign was that those who caused Government, they are a serial rebel. the crisis and who made the decisions years ago—the On issues such as the bedroom tax and changes to bankers, the wealthy and the powerful—are getting council house tenancies, I think that the Government away with it and that those paying the price are the most got it wrong. Similarly, I do not yet think that the vulnerable and least able to pay during this crisis. Government have rebalanced things as they should Increasingly, I see home repossessions, economic have in favour of hard-working citizens on issues such insecurity and less confidence in spending money because as immigration and law and order. Some of that, of of that economic insecurity. Just to make the situation course, is because we find ourselves in a coalition that bit more insecure, the Government now propose to Government. attack rights at work, make it easier to sack people and The other day, I was asked on Radio Humberside, reduce health and safety inspections at work. That will which I am sure many hon. Members listen to, whether make people even less confident, because they will be it was right for my colleagues to say that the Government worrying about losing their jobs. It will be easier to sack were not Conservative enough. I said that that was people and there will be fewer health and safety controls, right. It is a simple fact. Just as the Government are not particularly in the construction industry and other Lib Dem enough for Lib Dems, they are not Conservative dangerous industries. The result will be an increasing enough for Conservatives. turn in the downward spiral, further into recession—and perhaps, over the next couple of years, even into depression. I say to Conservative Front Benchers that many of the pitfalls and traps into which we seem to have walked What really worries me, although not so much in in the past few months—indeed, the past couple of respect of this country, is that in many countries across years—have been those that our coalition colleagues western Europe—particularly Greece, Spain and Portugal have advised us to advance towards. Perhaps the message —we are starting to see the beginnings of the rise of the should be that sometimes we should stick with our gut. far right. Take Golden Dawn in Greece, for example. If I hope that, in so far as anybody in this place listens to we think that the British National party and the English speeches from Back Benchers, that message will be Defence League are a dangerous bunch of fascists, we taken back to the powers that be in Whitehall and should see what Golden Dawn are like—they are 10 times elsewhere. worse. For the first time ever, Golden Dawn has representation in the Greek Parliament. That is a direct I welcome much in the Gracious Speech. I mentioned result of the appalling austerity measures unleashed on the themes of particular interest to my constituents. the Greek people. Unless there is a change of direction I welcome the draft social care Bill. Social care is the in the eurozone and this country, my fear is that right biggest challenge facing our country and, like many across Europe we will see the rise of the far right. Members who have spoken, I hope that we will be able to advance on it on a cross-party basis. In my view, there is one opportunity to get the issue right. There are 7.42 pm huge pressures, not only on the NHS but on local Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): It is a delight authorities, and they will only increase. I say to Front to be called to speak in this debate on the Gracious Benchers that we must advance in a way that protects Speech. I want to dwell on one or two of its themes that those who have tried to make provision for themselves are of great interest to my constituents and on one that and have worked hard. is of absolutely no interest to them. Before I do, I Many in my constituency have worked hard, got a should reflect a little on what has been achieved by the private pension and tried incredibly hard during their Government and where there is still room for improvement. working lives but now face the prospect of having to sell Like most Members, I came to the House to do their homes to pay for care. That absolutely has to be good—not as a do-gooder, but to do good for my taken into account. Labour Front Benchers have made constituents. I came here as a Conservative in the belief it clear that the matter should not be kicked into the that I would be able to rebalance how hard-working long grass, and they are right—although I question folk in Brigg and Goole, and beyond, are treated. In some whether they made any progress on the issue when they respects, the Government have made progress; some of were in power. We must not rush, either, because we the changes to the benefit system have made work pay, must get it right. 89 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 90

I look forward to the reforms on special educational some of whom are probably not too keen to drink with needs and support for disabled people. As I know from me these days as they see the proposed changes to my previous employment as a schoolteacher, those issues teachers’ pensions. I defend all those changes, because it definitely need to be addressed. We have to improve is clear that in the past few years the state became too how the statementing process works and that is why I big and the gap between public sector pensions and welcome its replacement with the integrated education, private sector pensions became too wide. However, the health and care plans. If those simplify the process for Government need to proceed extremely carefully on families and young people, as I hope a single assessment regional pay. In the Humber, we have struggled to will, that will be all to the better. I also say to Ministers, attract people into teaching. When I was a local councillor whom I am sure are listening, that we must ensure that in Hull, we had to come up with the so-called Hull offer those plans are supported with proper statutory obligations whereby we had to pay people more to come and teach across the various agencies involved, including academies in local schools. A few weeks ago, when my hon. Friend and free schools. the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers), the hon. I look forward to the changes to access rights for Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell), the hon. divorced fathers, and I hope that they will provide Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) and I were at a another opportunity for us to push forward the issue of meeting with our local hospital trust, we were told that grandparents’ rights, which are supported on both sides the trust was unable to attract doctors to come and of the House. work in our NHS trust area and would possibly have to consider paying more as a consequence. What are the most important issues? I have heard a lot from people on my side about what happened in the Some people in the public sector understandably feel local elections last week. We did not have any on my that they are being targeted at the moment. There is patch, but I have heard a great deal about them. People undoubtedly an issue with pay in the south-east of have talked about House of Lords reform and other England, but it would be morally wrong to take money issues, but such matters are not why the coalition parties from public sector workers in the north of England to did so badly. The people of Brigg and Goole are not solve a problem that exists in the south. Taking money worried about House of Lords reform or other matters; out of the public sector in an area such as Yorkshire they are worried about the economy and job creation, and northern Lincolnshire, which is very reliant on it, both of which are struggling at the moment. can only have a knock-on effect on the private sector. As I have watched this debate in my office and in the Ministers need to be very careful as they move forward Chamber, I have been surprised by some of the comments on this issue. I do not rule the policy out completely, but from Labour Members about what they left to this we need to see more detail. When the previous Government country. I know that they will attempt to gloss over introduced academies, they conceded the principle of their record, but given the area that I represent—the allowing schools to set their own pay and conditions, Humber, east Yorkshire and north Lincolnshire; only and they introduced that in HM Courts and Tribunals two or three Members representing that area were born Service. and bred there—I do not recognise the glory days of the House of Lords reform is one issue in the Gracious previous Administration. During their time in power, Speech that is of absolutely no interest to my constituents. the Humber lost manufacturing jobs and the number of I have not been regularly stopped while doing my private sector jobs was lower in 2010, when they left shopping in Goole and elsewhere by people saying, office, than it was in 1997. We also faced the prospect of “But Andrew, what we really want is for you to get on Labour’s dreaded ports tax, which would have killed and reform the House of Lords.” As it happens, I think jobs in our successful ports such as Goole, Immingham that the Government are right to raise the issue, as I and Hull. We also saw no action regarding the Humber support reform of the House of Lords. When I came bridge, which, since its creation, has divided our sub-regional here, I was told that it was packed full of talent and the economy. Now this Government have acted to halve the debates were wonderful. Doubtless there are some very tolls on the Humber bridge. good people in there, but there are also people who have Ministers are absolutely right to tell us that they want absolutely no legitimacy and no right to sit there, and to prioritise jobs and economic growth, and I hope that are perhaps not necessarily as in touch with the country they will continue do so. I have two warnings for them as it is today as they should be. However, by reforming from my region, one of which they will have heard something one can make it a lot worse. The Government’s plenty about recently—the prospect of the caravan tax. proposals for 15-year non-renewable terms would do Some 90% of manufacturing in this industry is located nothing to inject democracy into the House of Lords. I in east Yorkshire, and thousands of jobs are involved. would like a 90% to 100% elected Chamber with those Many of the people working in that industry are already elections taking place at the same time as the general on three-day weeks. The Government’s own projections election and people serving five-year terms. I say that as for the impact of the tax suggest a further 30% reduction a history teacher and somebody who does not like to see in static caravan sales. This is a successful industry, traditions swept aside lightly. Indeed, were it not for the most of which is deployed in the United Kingdom. The House of Lords in these past few months, the Government supply chain is almost wholly within the UK, and there might not have seen sense on matters such as the chief are thousands of jobs on caravan parks up and down coroner and, recently, on mesothelioma. the country. I hope that the Government will listen to I understand the important role that the House of what is being said about this, and I think that they are Lords plays in our democracy, but the Government’s starting to do so. proposals do not stand up to much scrutiny and would I completely support a lot of the changes that have not do much to inject democracy. They should press been made in the public sector, including on pensions. ahead with having a debate on the issue, but the current I would be happy to defend those to my former colleagues, proposals would not enjoy my support, especially as 91 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 92

[Andrew Percy] have been given the opportunity to demonstrate that the Government are showing greater leadership by example they involve using a voting system—the single transferable in developing a proper, coherent strategy for delivering vote—on which the public have had no say. I think that growth instead of cuts to get the deficit down. Instead, we can safely say after last year’s referendum on the we have had the same old medicine with the familiar alternative vote that the public have voted against moving side effects of less money being spent in the public to a more proportional system and want to retain first sector, leading to less money in the private sector and a past the post; certainly, that was their choice. downward spiral of unemployment and poverty. We I look forward to many of the proposals in the have seen that across Europe. Queen’s Speech, which has three policy areas of which I What we need in the UK and Europe is a combination am particularly supportive. I commend the Government of fiscal stimulus and co-ordinated investment. The for prioritising jobs and the economy. I also commend party with the best record on growth is of course the them for taking the action that we have already seen in Labour party. Between 1997 and 2008 there was the Humber, where in many areas they have done an unprecedented and continuous growth that we had not awful lot of good—although there is a risk that that seen since the war. In 2008, of course, we faced the could be undone by the caravan tax and regional pay. financial tsunami, and to the credit of my right hon. Broadly speaking, I welcome this Gracious Speech and Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath look forward to the forthcoming debates. (Mr Brown) and Barack Obama, the introduction of the fiscal stimulus enabled the world to avoid depression 7.56 pm and deliver shallow growth into 2010. Then the Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): I was Conservatives took over a deficit that was two-thirds interested to listen to the hon. Member for Brigg and caused by financial institutions and one-third caused by Goole (Andrew Percy), whose speech was remarkable the Labour party investing beyond earnings to continue for one thing, as has been the case with so many growth. Their immediate response was to announce speeches. We are currently seeing a fundamental clash half a million job cuts, which deflated consumer demand in Europe between democracy and austerity that has and led to negative growth. Indeed, the deficit projection been reflected in the polls in France and Greece, and is up by £150 billion. indeed in Britain in the local government elections, with a choice between growth and making cuts to get down Mr Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con): the deficit. There seems to be no acknowledgement of Does the hon. Gentleman think an 11% annual budget the fact that we are hurtling towards a fundamental deficit was sustainable? change that will mean the end of the euro and perhaps the end of Europe as we know it. We need to focus on Geraint Davies: No, of course not. The question is the need for proactive growth to invest in the capacity what is the most effective way of reducing the deficit is for productivity across Europe and to change course and what the balance should be between growth and while we see the emergence of the far-right-wing parties cuts. By way of a simple example, I spoke to a business that have been mentioned by my colleagues. Instead, person in Uplands in Swansea, and he said, “I run a however, the main preoccupation is still with the House business. If I were to make a loss and I sold my tools of Lords. and laid off all my workers, I’d have no business. I need I am sure that people like to talk about the intricacies to tighten up my costs and focus on developing more of the House of Lords—about whether having someone products and selling them in the marketplace”. The idea elected for 15 years without re-election is really democracy, that we can solve the deficit just through making cuts is whether there will be a clash of democracies between barmy. The focus should be on balancing the books the different Chambers and so on—but I think we all through jobs and growth. know that this is a very difficult issue, and that this is Let us examine the situation in Greece. Given the not the time to confront it when we are facing such draconian cuts to pensions and jobs, it is no surprise severe economic issues on our doorsteps and such that people cannot see any obvious upside. The money fundamental changes in the nature of Europe and our that is being put into Greece is being used to pay down exporting prospects. the debt rather than to invest in productive infrastructure that can generate growth. I am not saying that there Andrew Percy: I am not sure whether my accent was should be extra money for Greece, but we must consider the problem, but I think I made it very clear that House the balance between the two. of Lords reform was a completely marginal issue of absolutely no interest to my constituents. As I said time The EU could invest in solar forests in Greece to and again, my constituents expect that the economy generate energy for the rest of Europe, in connectivity and growth should be the priority. such as railways and roads to boost the holiday industry, in infrastructure in the holiday industry, or in broadband Geraint Davies: I am not talking about whether the across Greece. At the moment, the £13 billion a year hon. Gentleman and others referenced growth, but that the EU spends on research and innovation is all whether they took any notice at all of the fact that spent in the north of Europe. The centres of excellence across Europe we are seeing these fundamental changes. in Germany, at Oxford and Cambridge and the like get The economic orthodoxy wants to ignore the wishes of the money, and Greece is regarded as having under- people who are being downtrodden by these austerity developed academic resources. Such policies need changing, measures, and we are facing a real challenge as regards because we are a community, not just a market. The the future of democracy in parts of Europe, the future way through for Greece is to negotiate a settlement in of the euro, and the future of the European Community. which debt reduction is balanced by investment in In this year of her diamond jubilee, the Queen should productive infrastructure that can deliver growth and 93 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 94 help Greece pay its way. It is not for the EU simply to cuts. I would have liked at the centre of the Queen’s say, “You are poor, you’ve spent too much, we’ll make Speech bold new initiatives for Britain that could provide you poorer”. leadership for Europe and help us move forward in the Britain should take a lead and invest in growth in our world. own backyard and in team GB. We should work together to provide coherence about economic growth. In my 8.7 pm area, I am instrumental in bringing together stakeholders Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): It is a pleasure, as from the Swansea bay city region. Swansea council, ever, to follow the hon. Member for Swansea West Neath Port Talbot council, which is next door, and (Geraint Davies), who gave a particular view of economic Pembrokeshire and Cardiganshire have made a joint theory and how to get economies growing. He will not submission to the Welsh Government saying that they be surprised to know that I completely disagree with want to work together within a city region of some most of his prescriptions. 750,000 people rather than operate independently. They want to have joint marketing and inward investment Geraint Davies: I’m an economist and you’re not. strategies and put more pressure on the Government to provide the infrastructure to deliver growth. Charlie Elphicke: He is an economist. The right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) mentioned that if Wales had the £1.9 billion Andrew Percy: All the more reason to ignore him. that is equivalent to what is being spent on High Speed 2, it could invest in, for example, the electrification of the Charlie Elphicke: Yes, and no doubt five different railway to Swansea or reducing the toll on the Severn views could be advanced. bridge, as the Government have done on the Humber We all agree about the key point of the Queen’s bridge. That would stimulate trade coming into south Speech and the challenge facing this country. When I Wales and enable a coherent, joined-up approach to talk to my constituents in Dover and Deal and ask, economic development, working in tandem with industry “What is your priority?”, they say, “It’s the economy, and academia to move economic growth forward. Alongside stupid”—President Clinton made much of that point in a fiscal stimulus, such joining up of the economic his first election campaign. The economy is the heartland, capabilities of councils across Britain, targeting emerging and it is essential that we have more jobs and money in consumer markets, is the basis of a coherent growth Britain. We have had a very difficult time for the past plan that can move us forward. That is better than the four years, and the situation is challenging for many Conservative party’s preoccupation with savage cuts families in my constituency, who are struggling to get by affecting the most vulnerable, which are also happening and have not had a pay rise for a very long time. They in Greece. are struggling to keep hold of a job while we seek to I hope that there is a golden future for the Swansea rebuild out of the mess that went before. I therefore bay city region. Increasingly, people will realise that it is particularly welcome the fact that the Government’s a great location to go to. It has environmental beauty, first priority is to reduce the deficit and restore economic and the roll-out of broadband means that people can stability. move out there. The costs of setting up a business are The hon. Member for Swansea West has a prescription much lower than in London, and I hope that Swansea’s along the lines of saying that if we did not cut so far and premier division status—it has the premier football so fast, all would be fine. The difficulty with that is that team in Wales—will help us move forward. I say that we would need to borrow more money. If we did that, with no disrespect to Cardiff, who I know did not get we would threaten our economic credibility, which would into the premier league, so there is just one premier mean rising interest rates on Government debt. If that league team in Wales. happened, interest rates would increase for businesses The region is a cultural centre. It was the birthplace and home owners. of Dylan Thomas, whose centenary will be acclaimed in We have been lucky because we have same level of 2014. It is a centre for tourism and for sport, so there is deficit as Greece, but the markets trust our economic a package of activity that makes people want to visit the policy and our cracking down on and reducing the Swansea bay city region, invest in it and move there. deficit. That means that our interest rates are similar to The future is bright. We ask the Government for a bit those in Germany, while we still have a deficit the size of more support for infrastructure, as part of a growth Greece’s, albeit one that is falling. plan, so that we can work together to create jobs and wealth. That is the only real solution to getting the Andrew Percy: There is another point to be made. deficit down, rather than simply cutting again and The Opposition position is almost like telling someone again. with a £10,000 credit card bill, “Go and get another What we need now is to follow the example given in £5,000 on the credit card because you’ll feel a bit better 2008 by Obama and my right hon. Friend the Member today.” However, at some time in the future, the credit for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, who averted a depression. card company will come knocking. The Labour party We must have a co-ordinated approach across Europe wants us to increase the £120 million in debt interest so that we can move forward together before it is too every day by borrowing even more, which would mean late. We all know the adage: give a man a fish—I should that we had even less to invest in the public services that say give a person a fish, or in this case give Greece a our constituents want and deserve. fish—and he can eat for a day, but give him a rod and he can eat for a year. Now, we are cutting the fish in half so Charlie Elphicke: My hon. Friend is right. One does that he is hungry by lunchtime. We need to get the not fix a debt crisis by borrowing more money—it balance right between investment in infrastructure and makes no sense. It is the economics of the madhouse, 95 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 96

[Charlie Elphicke] The OECD growth project is also clear that increased competition to promote enterprise and fair markets is because we would have more debt to service over the also important. Promoting competition, free enterprise, long term. It would take us longer to pay it, thereby fair markets and a level playing field for market entrants mortgaging our children’s futures for longer, and interest is vital. We have pro-growth policies on all those. I make rates would rise. Under the Government, interest rates no bones about the fact that I should like the Government have fallen, and that has done much to ensure that we to be more pro-growth to get the economy moving even have more money to invest in public services than would quicker. I should like them to lever in more private have been the case under the previous Government. investment sooner so that we can grow more quickly. However, I recognise that all government is a negotiation, Geraint Davies: Does not the hon. Gentleman accept and it is clearly a challenge in a coalition to have that, because we do not have growth, deficit projections everything that we would like. From a Conservative have risen by £150 billion? Secondly, interest rates are point of view, I would like a more pro-growth policy so the same as those inherited from Labour. Under the that we grow the economy even more quickly. previous Tory Government, they were 15%. The hon. I am realistic about what we can do, but I think that Gentleman’s comments are simply factually untrue. we are doing a lot, and as much as we can. I can look my constituents in the eye and say that we are trying to Charlie Elphicke: The hon. Gentleman supposes that get the economy growing as quickly as possible, that we if the previous Government’s economic policies had are focused on it and that nothing matters to us more continued, the markets would have played along, and than jobs and money. the music would have kept playing. Greece, Ireland, It is real cheek for the Opposition to talk about youth Spain, Portugal and Italy are evidence against that. We unemployment, for two reasons. First, it rose massively are very lucky that we had a change of Government. We under the previous Government. Although it has increased had a close shave, but we have managed so far, goodness under this Government, it has done so at a much slower willing, to escape the position into which we would rate than in the previous Parliament. Secondly, when I otherwise have fallen. Without a shadow of a doubt, knock on the doors in Dover and ask people what their the previous Government would have taken us the way key concern is, they reply, “Immigration and I want my of Greece and we would have been plunged into serious kid to have a future.” They are furious that the open economic chaos. We would not be talking about a borders policy that the previous Government pursued technical double-dip recession, but a minus 5 or minus means that their children are finding it harder to get 6 double-dip recession, of the sort and on the scale that a job. is happening in Greece. I hope that when the Office for National Statistics reviews the figures in a few months, Andrew Percy: When my hon. Friend talked about we will see that we skirted recession, but were not in youth unemployment figures rising under the previous recession. Many of us feel that confidence is already Government, he failed to mention that they increased rebuilding. From other surveys, many of us suspect that when unemployment generally was falling. For youth the ONS figures will be revised upwards, and we will unemployment to be increasing now is bad enough, but find that we did not go into recession and that we may for it to rise when unemployment generally is falling is a just be starting to recover. national tragedy. We have heard no apology for that. I hope that that is the case because our constituents have had and are having a difficult time trying to keep Charlie Elphicke: My hon. Friend is right. Not only hold of their jobs, get a pay rise and pay their bills, that, but if we examine the figures for job creation since which have been increasing ever faster. The Government’s the early 2000s, we see that people from the EU accession policies, which focus on the economy like a laser beam, eight countries had a massive increase in the number of are right. We need a more flexible labour market—not a jobs, that that also applied among foreign nationals—people right-wing, “Let’s have the ability to hire and fire at born overseas—but that employment hardly increased will” policy. The OECD growth project investigated the at all for those born in the UK. matter at length and in detail and concluded that a flexible labour market was a key driver of economic Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): Does my hon. Friend growth. It identified another key driver as lower corporation agree that one of the previous Government’s biggest taxes, which the Government are delivering. It also said failures was to address the skills deficit in this country, that a certain and credible financial services and competition and that they also failed to tackle apprenticeships? Is it regulation regime, which we are rebuilding, was another therefore any wonder that, at the time, the jobs were not key driver. going to British-born workers? I think that the House accepts that the Financial Services Authority system—the tripartite regulation Charlie Elphicke: I agree with my hon. Friend. That is system—was an unmitigated disaster. The brainchild of the central point, which I was about to address. Employers’ the former Prime Minister and the shadow Chancellor, difficulty is finding the right person with the skills for when it was put to the test, it was found entirely the job. It is incumbent on the Government to create a wanting. The Bank of England managed to save the framework whereby people—particularly our young secondary banking system and our general banking people—can get the skills so that they qualify and are system in the 1970s, but this time, we had to have eligible for a job, and that they have the skills that massive state-funded bail-outs, which cost the taxpayer employers need. Instead of dealing with the skills deficit a fortune. That need not and would not have happened in our population, the previous Government thought it had the FSA and the tripartite regulatory regime not was easier to put sticking plaster on it and have an open been in place. borders policy to enable employers to take people with 97 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 98 the skills that they wanted from anywhere, rather than Let me set out how families have changed. One can ensuring that our children and young people had the have an “olde worlde” image of the family—a bloke skills for the labour market and therefore a better goes to work while the mother bounces the child on her future. knee or does the washing up at home. That is perhaps how it was in the 1950s, but things have not been like It is important to have stronger border control in the that for a very long time. Just about everyone I know UK. It is also important to skill up our children because from my generation joint works. I looked at the figures, the previous Government sold us a pass on the hopes because many of our policies seem to be aimed at and aspirations of our young people and people who do people who live that kind of traditional family life, not have great skills to get a job, promotion, more rather than at families who joint work, which is the money and more skills. The Government’s emphasis on reality. apprenticeships is essential. That is what I hear on the doorsteps in Dover. For many in the House and in Some things jump out from the figures on parental the metropolitan elite, that is a difficult message, but the employment rates. Back in 1986, half of partnered opinion polls show that unemployment and immigration mothers were in the workplace; today, 71% of them are. are linked, and we should be honest about that. We Whereas 25 years ago five out of 10 partnered mothers should be honest with people, and tell them that we went to work; seven out of 10 now do so. The overwhelming understand their concerns and are acting on them. One majority of couples with children under the age of 16 of the greatest things about the Government is that we both work, which has led to a wider change in respect of have taken such strong action on apprenticeships to juggling the work-life balance. ensure that our people have the skills to have a job and It is not just that there are more mothers in the do well in life. workplace. What about the number of men who work The Government are nothing if they are not about part time? Some people go around saying, “Only women aspiration, but they are also about understanding the ever look after children,” but that is also old fashioned pressures of utility bills and the costs of modern life. and archaic. Things have been changing. Notably, the One really important policy in that respect is the proposed number of all parents in part-time work has changed, reform of the electricity market to deliver clean, secure which is basically accounted for by the fact that the and affordable electricity and ensure that prices are fair. number of men in part-time work has risen. Official The Leader of the Opposition chooses these days to statistics from the Office for National Statistics show forget that he was Secretary of State for Energy and that 25 years ago, 696,000 men were in part-time work. Climate Change, and that he planned, with the renewable That number has risen nearly fourfold to more than heat initiative, to load £193 on to the bills of every 2 million today. To my mind, that indicates that parents household in this country. He chooses to forget that, are increasingly juggling work and child care, and that with the electricity renewable energy obligation to which there has been something of a seismic shift. he signed up, he was going to increase our power prices Many think, “Mothers go back to work when the by 20%, and those of businesses by 30%. He goes on child is a bit older,” but let us look at the figures. When about the costs of living and the pressure on households, do people go back to work? Do they wait until the child and yet chooses to forget that the responsibility for is about five and going to school, or do they go back much of the increase in the cost of living lies at his door, before that? Twenty-five years ago, 27% of partnered because when he was Secretary of State, he loaded bills women went back to work when the youngest child was and balanced our carbon commitments on the backs of under three years of age. In other words, two thirds of the poor, which was a disgusting and disgraceful thing women stayed at home and brought up the child until to have done. they were at least three, and then considered going back We cannot balance our carbon commitments on the to work. That position has reversed. Now, 63% of backs of the poor, as the Labour Government wanted. partnered women go back to work when the youngest We need to ensure that our carbon commitments are child is under three. executed in the most cost-effective way. That means not There has been a massive social change, and we need that we should back winners or favour this or that to understand modern families and how they live. If technology, but that we should favour technologies that most women are going back to work when the child is reduce carbon emissions at the most effective and best pre-school age, there is a lot of juggling and work-life possible price, regardless of whether we happen to like balancing. Who takes the kid to school or nursery? or dislike them. That is what we owe the least well-off in Who collects the kid? Who looks after the child? Who our communities, and our hard-pressed families and takes primary responsibility in the workplace and in the electors. home? Increasingly, most people whose children are grown up will know from their children’s lives that there From the detailed list of Bills in the Queen’s Speech, is much more of a juggle and a balance of work and life. I want to pick out the children and families Bill, which contains an acceptance of the important principle I The rate of increase of lone parents has been very proposed in a ten-minute rule Bill last year: that children great. In 1986, 15% of lone parents went back to work have the right to know, and have a relationship with, when their child was under three; by 2011, that had both their parents following separation. I believe that doubled to 32%. We can therefore see substantial change that is right and in the interests of the child and their in families, which has consequences for family policy. welfare, but let me explain why. The Bill does not set out The flexible parental leave provision in the children and with complete clarity reasons for that provision or for families Bill is justified because it is necessary. It is a the shared parental leave provision, but they are linked, recognition that families juggle work and child care. It because families have changed. There is a new norm, is not just a case of saying, “The mother has a baby, and we need to accept modern families. therefore she has maternity leave.” The situation is 99 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 100

[Charlie Elphicke] breakfast table, oblivious to the world: instead, dads are deeply engaged in children’s lives. So when it comes to much more complicated, and provision should be balanced separation, the question is what is in the interests of the so that men and women in a family can balance that children. What best serves the child’s welfare? I think equation. that it is stability and the continuation of what they More work needs to be done on child care, for two have known. So if a parent who has been heavily involved reasons. First, the number of child care places has been in the child’s life—as they are in the overwhelming broadly static for years. In 2001, there were more than majority of families—suddenly disappears off a cliff 300,000 places with child minders and about 300,000 day edge, it makes no sense. That is why the Government are nursery places—about 600,000 places in total. The number right to enshrine in legislation the principle that children of places with child minders stayed static, but the number have the right to know and have a relationship with their of nursery places—full day care—increased to about parents. The way in which modern families live indicates 600,000. In 2001, there were 600,000 places in total, but strongly that that is what best serves child welfare. in 2008, there were around 900,000 places. The number I recognise that the judiciary and the legal system are, has remained static since. as always, about 30 years out of date and are astonishingly What does it mean if there are now 900,000 places? weak-kneed when it comes to ensuring the rights of Are we catering for all the children in the country who children to know both their parents. That is wrong, and are in need of child care? I did some back-of-the envelope we need to send a clear legislative message, not just to calculations, and it struck me that there is potentially a anti-dad social workers but to the court system, that shortage of child care places. There are about 13 million society has changed. We in Parliament get that society children in the UK, of whom roughly 3 million are has changed. We get that we need stability for our pre-school age. The numbers indicate that 55% of children children and that child welfare is best served by having at pre-school have parents who both work. In other minimum disturbance to that which they have been used words, about 2 million children need child care, but to. If we send that message, real and positive change could there are only 900,000 child care places. What is happening be made. to the other million children? Who is looking after Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): The hon. Gentleman them? Is it grandparents or neighbours? There is a kind mentioned that in some way the status quo might be of child care apartheid. On the one hand, there is a maintained. Does he agree that in fact there is evidence system of nurseries that are so heavily regulated that that one parent is often excluded from the life of the most people cannot afford them, and on the other hand child by the parent with care, and that therefore the there is a system of child care for the other half that is status quo may become a pattern of one-parent family completely unregulated. We know nothing about what life as opposed to two-parent? Does he therefore agree is going on in that half. The right balance would be to that the Government should say that children have an reduce the regulation on our nurseries, increase the absolute right to life with both their parents unless that number of places and bring the cost of child care down is unsafe? so that more people can access it, because one of the biggest pressures on modern families is affording the Charlie Elphicke: Yes, I do. If I understand her correctly, cost of child care for pre-school children. It is an the hon. Lady refers to the concept of shared parenting. absolute nightmare— I am personally a fan of that, but it is a difficult argument to advance at the moment because the Norgrove Andrew Percy: My hon. Friend questions whether it report looked into what happens in Australia and managed is grandparents doing the caring and, as I said a few to become completely and utterly muddled about the moments ago, they are increasingly involved in families difference between quantity of time and quality of time. and are the unsung heroes of child care. Does he agree Every parent knows that quality of time is what counts. with my hope that additional rights for grandparents In Australia, it seems to have become an issue of quantity will be introduced in the next Session? of time and an insistence on 50:50 time, but that misses the point altogether and, therefore, misled the entire Norgrove report. Before the report was published, I Charlie Elphicke: My hon. Friend is a passionate spent an hour putting that case passionately to members campaigner on behalf of grandparents. When grandparents of the panel, but they published it anyway. It will are constructive, they can make a powerful contribution, therefore be difficult to persuade the legislature that but a balance inevitably needs to be struck. Some shared parenting is the right way to go, but the social grandparents like to interfere and meddle, and they can changes in modern families will mean that it is almost be really annoying. All parents know that some certain to end up that way in five years’ time. grandparents are not quite the saints that my hon. Friend suggests. Nevertheless, if grandparents play a constructive For now, the best win that can be had is to ensure that role in a child’s life, there is a lot to be said for them. My children have the right to know, and a right of access to, hon. Friend has been a passionate and trenchant both their parents. If the parent with care tries to campaigner in the cause of constructive grandparents—as subvert that, they are not having a go at the parent opposed to destructive grandparents, whom we could without care but undermining their child and attacking all do without. We all know people who know them—I the rights that their child should have. If we frame it hope my hon. Friend understands where I am coming that way, parents with care will more quickly understand from on that point. that they need to think about their children, rather than themselves. We need more availability of nursery places and deregulation of the system. The figures show that dads Tessa Munt: Does the hon. Gentleman agree, therefore, are more involved in children’s lives than ever before. that the courts have the ultimate solution in that, if a Father is no longer sitting behind a newspaper at the parent with care prevents a child from accessing his or 101 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 102 her other parent, the care can be taken up by the parent in the maintained sector needs a portakabin in the who is excluded, and that that is the ultimate sanction playground to cater for the number of special educational and might encourage parents to stick to the rules and needs children, because it has been told by the education ensure that their children have absolute access to both authority to take yet more children. We need to strike parents? the right balance: we need to give parents much greater say and choice, use the places available in the system Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. most appropriately and ensure that the statementing May I remind the hon. Lady of Mr Speaker’s process is as quick as it can be. In education, when it announcement at the beginning of the debate about comes to looking after our children, we need to put the parliamentary convention for this Session and the need parents first. We need to ensure that they can make the for interventions to be brief, not substantive speeches or decisions that are right for their children, because, broadly, long points, interesting as they may be? they know best because they know their children best of all. Charlie Elphicke: I thank the hon. Lady for her I am delighted to support the Queen’s Speech. It interesting intervention. The full tool box needs to be focuses on the economy, on utility bills, on the cost of available to the court system, but the legislature also living and on helping hard-pressed families. It focuses needs to send a strong message to the court system, on families and children, and on helping families to social workers and everyone involved in child care and bring forward the next generation. child care access about what we expect it to look like, which is that people who stand in the way of their 8.39 pm children’s rights should have the book thrown at them Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): It is and should not be allowed to do so anymore. a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie I want to make a brief point about the education of Elphicke). I enjoyed his speech very much—even the children with special educational needs. These children more provocative parts. I suspect that many of our have been badly let down for too long. They find it very constituents who have children with special needs will hard to access the right school. I chaired a summit empathise with his comments. I confess that I did not recently to which, I am delighted to say, came the leader understand his reference to grandparents occasionally of Kent county council, a cabinet member for Kent being annoying, but perhaps that is Conservative party county council and a group of parents of children with code for something else. I also empathised with his severe special educational needs—many of them high description of many of his constituents not having had on the autistic and Asperger spectrums—who have had a pay rise for years and struggling to keep their jobs. I a very difficult time. It is wrong in principle that parents therefore say gently to him that I do not understand facing the significant challenges of looking after a child how he can say with a straight face that the Budget was with special educational needs should, on top of that, good for those families. Nevertheless, I enjoyed listening have to battle the education system to get the right to his speech. education for their child. It is wrong in principle that, in Two years into the coalition, it is striking that the many cases, it has taken two or three years for those Queen’s Speech has so little to offer to solve the challenges parents to find the right school for their children. that our country faces. Its measures show that the Several things became clear to me during the summit. Prime Minister and the Chancellor did not listen to the The statementing process is too slow and cumbersome. anger of Britain’s citizens last week and that they are That is wrong. It should be more fast-tracked, efficient ignoring the now considerable economic evidence that a and effective in looking at children’s needs and diagnosing new direction is needed. Equally clearly, the confident them correctly. Once that is done, each county council communities that our constituents want to live in will or education authority needs to maintain a decent seem further away than ever, with declining levels of database of which schools in their authority area can social capital, public services under greater pressure cater for which needs. Too often, it seems, there is than ever, and the opportunity to have real influence muddle and confusion in the bureaucracy over which over how key services are run at local level growing ever schools can cater for which needs. The whole system more distant. should be fast-tracked so that parents are offered schools My constituents tell me that they are now seeing appropriate to their child’s needs, rather than schools fewer police officers than for a long time. The fact that that are not appropriate. That happens in many education the Government are announcing legislation to set up authorities. Everyone knows that. It is wrong and needs the new National Crime Agency when police numbers to be dealt with. are dropping, and that the Metropolitan police want to Furthermore, on special educational needs, there must close all the cells at Harrow police station with little not be an apartheid between the state sector and the notice and even less discussion, suggests that Ministers private sector. We need to put the children first. If a are out of touch with what is happening at the grass private, independent school caters best for the special roots to the services that our constituents depend on. needs of children, parents should be offered that school Given the present Home Secretary’s now notorious and not just told that a maintained school has to take description of the Conservative party, it is perhaps yet more pupils because the education rules and laws appropriate to wonder, in the light of the Queen’s are such that pupils can be shoved into a school, whether Speech and the Budget, whether the “nasty party” is the school likes it or not or does not have enough places. very much back in evidence. Over the next 12 months, In my constituency, there is the perverse situation in we will see more cuts that will once again hit the most which one independent school catering brilliantly for vulnerable and those least able to help themselves. If the special educational needs has 20 spare places, while measure in the Queen’s Speech goes through, it will another special needs school doing an outstanding job become easier to sack the strivers, the hard workers, 103 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 104

[Mr Gareth Thomas] Equally striking is the recent absence of “big society” language from the rhetoric of the Prime Minister’s those who speak out, those who blow the whistle on bad speeches. Community groups that were championed practice and those who, for just one period in their lives, when the Conservatives were in opposition are now left are at their most vulnerable through illness, if their face very much on the sidelines. Huge cuts in funding that does not fit. began to hit hard last year will hit even harder this year. There has also been a tax cut for millionaires, which Last week, the head of Volunteering England warned hard-working families and pensioners are being made that the network of volunteer centres across the country to pay for. To cap it all, the Conservative party is is beginning to fragment, with a number set to close this agonising once again about all things foreign. It is again year. Why, at a time when we need national renewal, are anti-European in tone, and predominantly anti-aid, we set to make it harder for people to give something too. Above all, it is on the economy that the Prime back through volunteering? The National Children’s Minister needs to tell the Chancellor to change course. Bureau has warned that 25% of the charities it contacted Bank lending continues to fall as businesses continue to that help young people and children believed that they struggle. Year on year, net lending to businesses has might have to close next year. Charities that were promised now fallen in every single month since the coalition Government contracts will now know that they were came to power. How many times have we heard the hollow words when Ministers spoke them. Prime Minister promise to get the banks lending? Despite The Work programme, run by the Department for all the hype that Project Merlin and, then, banking Work and Pensions, has seen the private sector winning reform were the answer, bank lending continues to fall; 90% of the prime contracts. Charities that were told it was down 3.5% last year alone. that they would get 35% to 40% of the referrals under the Work programme are seeing at best half that—fewer My right hon. Friends on the Opposition Front Bench than under the Future Jobs Fund. More than 100 charities have consistently warned that the Government’s austerity have lost confidence and walked away, yet there is plan was self-defeating, and that cutting spending too nothing in the Queen’s Speech to seek to address those far and too fast at the same time as putting up taxes problems. Indeed, an independent audit published by such as VAT would backfire. America, and indeed a Civil Exchange and the Joseph Rowntree Charitable series of countries in Europe, have taken a far more Trust at the weekend argued that there is balanced approach to reducing their deficits, with strong plans to produce jobs and deliver economic growth. “an implicit bias towards the private sector in tendering” Why could the Chancellor and Prime Minister not have and that listened to and looked at what is happening in those “it is particularly hard for small, local voluntary organisations to countries? As a result of their mistakes, my constituents compete for contracts.” are suffering. Their bills are up because Ministers will I suggest that this is the Serco society, not the big not really challenge the big energy companies. There is society, so it is hardly surprising that some 70% of certainly a Bill to introduce electricity market reform, charity chief executives did not think that the Government but it will come far too late in this Parliament to make a respected or valued their sector. real difference to the size of the bills my constituents Arguably, the most fundamental challenge identified will have to pay. by the audit is how to extend social action to a younger In many cases, mortgage rates are rising, while tube population and across socio-economic groups. The core, fares have never been so expensive. In Harrow town it says, of those who provide the majority of volunteering centre in the heart of my constituency, I have never seen are more likely to be middle-aged, to have higher educational as many empty shops as there are now—a daily qualifications, to practise their religion actively and to demonstration of a recession that has been made in have lived in the same neighbourhood. There is nothing Downing street. Harrow council, told by the Mayor of in the Queen’s Speech to suggest that the Government London to plan for a huge increase in housing units understand how to get more people enrolled in their over the next decade or so—half in Wealdstone and communities or even the desire to do so. Harrow-on-the Hill—is seeking to use this open door Where, indeed, is the co-ops Bill that the Prime policy for developers to try to redesign, reinvigorate Minister once promised? This comes on the back of no and redevelop the heart of our borough, despite the serious effort to remutualise Northern Rock over the recession. It is, however, striking how difficult it is at the past 12 months, no serious interest in encouraging more moment to persuade developers to put affordable housing energy co-ops to emerge, no sustained effort to encourage at the centre of their plans—for example, on the Kodak real involvement in the running of football clubs by site, set to be home to a potential 3,000 housing units. football fans through football supporters’ co-operatives, For those in Harrow who want to get on the housing and no requirement to promote a diverse market in ladder, the prospect of being able to buy their first financial services for the Financial Services Authority home in the Harrow community where they grew up seems or its replacement to help financial mutuals. Sadly, the ever further away. Queen’s Speech confirms that once again the Government The next generation, hammered by the high cost of have walked away from the real practical measures that tuition fees from October this year, will wonder why could have helped the co-op and mutual movement to there is so little to help them in this Queen’s Speech. grow. There is nothing to make the cost of going to university One of the Bills that will be before the House during easier—just cuts in the funding that their university is this Session will be a crime and courts Bill, the details of receiving. They face higher living costs while they are at which I shall examine especially carefully. As I made university, and now there is the possibility, as announced clear earlier, my constituents will be sceptical about the in the Budget, of a tax give-away for private universities, benefits of such a top-down change when they are many of which are run by hedge funds. seeing fewer police officers on the ground. I recently 105 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 106 organised meetings between constituents who are This Gracious Speech is striking in that it does not experiencing challenging antisocial behaviour problems include a Bill to fulfil the commitment that 0.7% of our near the Racecourse estate in Northolt, which my hon. national income should be spent on development assistance. Friend the Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) The three major parties all committed to legislating on will know particularly well— that. Indeed, before the last general election, I had the honour of taking such a Bill through the pre-legislative Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): It wasn’t me. scrutiny process. There is a strong case for Britain continuing to set an example on the provision of Mr Thomas: It also occurs in south Harrow. What international aid for people in less well-off countries. frustrated those residents was the lack of visibility, at We should think of the current west Africa food crisis key times, of police officers who could have moved on and the huge numbers of people at risk of dying of local troublemakers, and, indeed, could have deterred hunger there, and of the considerable remaining health them from gathering in the first place. Constables are challenges in respect of HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis and routinely deployed away from their wards, and are malaria. rarely available for standard safer neighbourhood team The lack of action by the Government parties in duties in those areas. respect of the ancient, yet still very important, United Nations commitment that every rich country should What is most worrying, however, is the threat to close give 0.7% of its income to help the world’s poorest is a the custody suite at Harrow police station. With no huge missed opportunity. In the forthcoming debate on consultation, the Metropolitan police have decided to the Gracious Speech, I look forward to hearing the shut the custody suite, which consists of 13 cells, in Secretary of State for International Development give a mid-September. There will then be no more cell capacity clear and detailed explanation as to why he has failed to in Harrow. All those who are arrested will have to be convince his colleagues to introduce legislation to that transported to out-of borough police stations—to Kilburn effect. and Wembley—by a minimum of two officers, more if there is a possibility that the prisoners could turn violent. 8.55 pm Given the number of annual visits to Harrow’s cells by alleged criminals—an average of 5,000, I believe—and Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): It is an honour to follow given the time that it takes to travel from my constituency the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas). I to Kilburn and Wembley, that represents a loss of listened to his speech with great interest. between 10,000 and 20,000 police officer hours. Officers I shall focus on three specific sets of proposals in the will be wasting time by acting as transport couriers for Queen’s Speech that build on many of the strong reforms alleged criminals when they could be investigating, detecting the Government introduced in the previous Session: the and, better still, preventing crime in Harrow. measures on children and families—which my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) has Stephen Pound: I do not want to hijack the Queen’s already touched on—crime and the courts, and enterprise Speech into matters of custody accommodation in west and regulatory reform. London, but is my hon. Friend as surprised as I was to As a Conservative, I believe in stronger families forming learn that a place called Polar Point has opened at the foundation of a stronger society, so I welcome the Heathrow airport to receive those who used to be in measures to support families. As my hon. Friend said, custody in Harrow and Ealing, and that the decision was arranging child care is one of the biggest challenges made by a company called Emerald, which is apparently working parents face. Those of us who daily do the school the privatised cell provider and which doubtless refers run know all about the pressures of juggling child care to the prisoners as “customers”? commitments with work. For households in which both parents are working, that can be a great struggle. Whether Mr Thomas: I am indeed very surprised by that in respect of babysitting toddlers, looking after unwell information. One is always grateful when additional cell children, doing the school run or attending school capacity is provided elsewhere in London, but it is assembly, it can be very difficult for working mums and hugely disappointing that there is still a threat of closure dads, especially those in traditional working arrangements, of the custody suite in Harrow. to support their children fully and meet their needs. We I have not received any formal explanation from the must not forget that young children—whether attending Metropolitan police of why they think that the closure nursery, pre-school or school—have active lives and is necessary, let alone been consulted. Given that CID social lives, too, and that there are therefore also other officers tend to be based where custody suites are housed, commitments such as taking kids to after-school activities and given that space is to be set aside at Wembley police Many households now need two parents to be working station for Harrow CID officers, it does not look good and bringing in full-time incomes in order to pay the for the future of borough-based policing in Harrow, bills because—let us face it—life is tough at the moment and it certainly does not look good for the long-term and the cost of living is high and is rising. Many future of the 110 CID officers who are currently based Members have spoken about the rising utilities and fuel there. Almost a third of our own police officers will bills. have to spend some of their time out of the borough if Suitable child care provision in this country is incredibly the cells shut. Let me ask this question of the Metropolitan costly. Many of us could give examples of the average police, and indeed of Ministers: why should my constituents bill for sending a child to nursery in normal working have any confidence that those 110 CID officers will hours exceeding £800 a month. That is equivalent to a continue to be based in Harrow in the long term? I hope monthly mortgage repayment in some households, so is that, even at this late stage, the Home Secretary will it any wonder that two parents have to go out to work to encourage the Metropolitan police to think again. cover child care costs in addition to the cost of living? 107 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 108

[Priti Patel] One school in my constituency has a very poor record on special educational needs provision and is the source The Government are to be congratulated on recognising of many complaints from parents to me. Rather than the challenges families face and the barriers to family helping an autistic child, the school has classified him life in this country, but more needs to be done across as having average communication skills. It is completely government and all the political parties. We must take a failing that poor child and failing to understand his pragmatic and rational approach and introduce some needs because the school does not want to be seen to positive, proactive measures to alleviate the struggles have too many children with special educational needs and challenges families face and to remove the barriers on its books, which is wrong and appalling. I would like that are often in place in respect of child care and more to be done to empower parents and I welcome the employment. proposals to do that and to simplify the assessment I know that many households across the country, and process with the introduction of the single assessment certainly in my constituency, will welcome the proposals process and education, health and care plans. outlined today. We need to give parents more flexibility We also need to encourage the spread of best practice over working time and over maternity and paternity to get good results in the running of special educational leave, too. I can only speak from my own personal needs services in other schools. A very positive example experience, but I was one of those parents who went of that in my constituency is set by the inspirational back to work three weeks after having my son and, head teacher, Jane Bass, at Powers Hall junior school in quite frankly, had I had the opportunity to swap with Witham. She sets a good leadership example and works my husband, that really would have been great. tirelessly to help children with learning difficulties and The Government should be commended for considering special educational needs. I think she should be commended relationships between children and both parents. Fathers for her work. She has a strong track record of supporting should absolutely have equal, fair and the right kind of children who have come to her school with very challenging access to their children when the family relationship has problems and seeing them through their time there so broken down. In my time as a Member of Parliament that they leave with more skills and greater independence. thus far, brief though it has been, many fathers have That is good for the children and is genuine relief for come to me who feel that their children are being used their parents. Importantly, the parents know that their in the court system as an emotional and financial children’s needs are being met. In taking through the weapon, which is unacceptable. We need to bring some relevant Bill that will be introduced this Session, we sanity back to the situation. Shared parenting is absolutely should learn from schools that have a good track record the right thing and, if nothing else, we have to start of working with children and their parents to understand putting the rights of children first, not the rights of how to meet a child’s needs and relate that to the warring parents or warring mothers against warring legislation. We need more head teachers like Jane Bass and fathers. Children come first and children’s rights are I am optimistic that the legislative programme can deliver key. positive changes to special educational needs provision. That brings me on to adoption. In my view, the I welcome the Government’s tough stance on drug Government should be congratulated on their commitment drivers, which I hope will lead to robust legislation. It is to supporting the adoption process. I personally feel shameful that our criminal justice system sentences that it is nothing short of scandalous that the number of perpetrators for these offences—people who have taken adoptions last year totalled just 60 when thousands of away lives and ruined the lives of victims’ families—to children are going through the care system in local just a few weeks behind prison bars instead of the authorities up and down the country. That is simply lengthy spells in prison totalling many years that they wrong. They deserve loving families and loving homes should receive. I know that Ministers have listened and hundreds of loving families want to provide good, closely to people’s concerns about this issue. Indeed, my stable homes for children. It is a shame on our society right hon. Friend the Prime Minister today spoke about and on the system that red tape and bureaucracy get in the many representations from families that he has the way and prevent children from being put into loving listened to and the campaigns fought by victims’ families. families. I welcome the change and hope that the Clearly, the Government have responded positively to Government will ensure that we can start to address the those representations, but many more victims of other scandal and start to put children into proper loving crimes have been excluded by the criminal justice system. homes. Ministers need to listen to their concerns and introduce positive changes. My hon. Friend the Member for Dover talked about bureaucracy and red tape and I welcome the steps being Victims and the public are being put in danger by a taken to support children with special educational needs. criminal justice system that, from the top down, sets As a local MP I have met dozens of families who have free far too many offenders so that they end up roaming been let down by the system. Those mums and dads our streets and committing more crimes. There are naturally want the best for their children but all too more than 250 offenders with more than 100 convictions, often bureaucracy, officialdom and, sometimes, bad more than 3,500 with 50 or more convictions and more practice in schools and local authorities let them down than 2,000 offenders who have served 25 or more separate and damage the prospects of their children. They are spells in prison. In addition, there are rapists and sex left fighting hard, going through assessment after offenders who are never sentenced to serve a day behind assessment, just to get the extra help that their children bars. That should change. Some 20,000 offenders who need. More often than not, in many cases, the needs of are let off with community orders are out on the streets their children are recorded or summarised through some committing 50 crimes a day, including offences against sort of tick-box process. The real understanding of the children. The Government’s reforms to community emotional or physical needs of the child is often ignored. sentences are a positive step forward, but there are tens 109 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 110 of thousands of offenders on our streets for whom prison small and independent retailers are decimated in our is the best place. Importantly, if they are in prison the high streets. More needs to be done. SMEs support two public will know that they are being kept safe. Keeping thirds of jobs throughout the country. In my constituency, the public safe should be fundamental to any criminal the figure rises to 83%, which is high and I should like it justice reforms we make in this Session. to be higher. With greater economic liberalisation and We should also do more to support the victims of less regulation I am sure that will happen. crime. I have seen from the work I have done with The ability of business owners and entrepreneurs to victims—let me refer hon. Members to my private Member’s create even more jobs has been compromised by the Bill in the previous Session on championing victims’ unrelenting growth of regulation from both Whitehall rights—that victims are fed up with seeing policy makers and Brussels. In 2011, 84% of businesses reported that and the courts focusing their efforts on appeasing offenders they spent more time dealing with legislation than in instead of helping victims to get through the horrific 2009. The annual cost to SMEs of that compliance is experiences they have faced. The former victims about £17 billion, which is equivalent to the cost of commissioner, Louise Casey, did a good job of highlighting Crossrail, and 12 times the Government’s budget for this issue alongside charities such as Victim Support, apprenticeships. the National Victims Association and Support After The Government are committed to the red tape challenge; Murder and Manslaughter Abroad. The Government’s they have already identified more than 600 regulations response to the consultation on its “Getting it right for to be scrapped or overhauled. The sooner the process victims and witnesses” strategy is due later this year, begins, the better. Freeing business from the costs imposed and I very much hope that they will recognise where the by regulation will allow them, importantly, to invest in proposals need beefing up and that they will show some more jobs and economic growth. flexibility and deliver the new and improved services I urge the Government to take more robust action on that victims of crime need. At the moment, my constituent EU red tape. For me as a new Member of Parliament, Marie Heath and her family are being subjected to the one of the most disappointing aspects of EU regulation horrendous ordeal of travelling to Germany every week was the enforcement in the previous Session of the for the ongoing trial of the defendants alleged to have agency workers regulations, which unfortunately the brutally murdered her son. The family face huge logistical Government could do nothing about because the previous challenges and thousands of pounds in costs. The Government had done the deal. That has cost business Government are aware of that case and I hope that in £1.5 billion. Such regulations do far more to create the Bill they will learn from the experience of the unemployment and block job creation than they do to Heaths and many other victims of crime. support workers’ rights. In my constituency and throughout Essex, more people Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): My hon. are prepared to take risks and set up their own business. Friend is making a powerful point about people’s need As many Members may have seen in the news over the to feel secure, to feel that sentencing is appropriate and past 24 hours, there has been a great deal of political to feel that those who should be behind bars are. Does focus on Essex; one might argue that the only way is up she, like me, want the Government to take steps to in Essex. It is indeed a county of dynamic entrepreneurs. ensure that sentences mean that if someone is sentenced Many of my constituents are prepared to go out on a to four years, for example, they serve those four years as limb and do the right thing, which is to take risks and opposed to perhaps just two? set up a business. In the county of entrepreneurs, there are 6,000 new enterprise births a year. The figure is Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We high, and I hope that it will grow higher. are talking about public confidence in the criminal As the Prime Minister saw on his visit yesterday, justice system, which should do what it says on the tin. those wealth creators will be key to the future economic If an offender is sentenced to four years, the public do success not just of the county of Essex but of our not want them released within 18 months or a shorter country. By taking steps to empower them to create time. They want to know that the full sentence will be more wealth, jobs and prosperity, we can once again served. This is a good opportunity for the Government restore dynamism and strength in the British economy, to restore public confidence in our criminal justice system. and as a country we shall start to regain our rightful I welcome the proposals the Government have outlined place in the world economic league tables. That is why I to free up businesses and scrap costly and unnecessary support the Queen’s Speech and everything the Government burdens on them. I refer to regulation. As the daughter are doing on economic and regulatory reform. of a small shopkeeper, I have recognised throughout my adult and teenage working life how important small 9.14 pm businesses are for jobs and economic growth. I have Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con): It is an honour, also become very aware of regulation. As shopkeepers, although a daunting one, to follow that excellent speech my parents have owned a range of small shops—post by my hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti offices, supermarkets and newsagents. We have been Patel), who speaks with a wealth of expertise as both a through many iterations of health and safety legislation, parent of young children, a job she juggles very well business and small shop regulation, Sunday trading, with her other abilities, and an excellent parliamentarian. opening hours and particularly employment legislation. She spoke about businesses in Essex, again with a You name it, Madam Deputy Speaker, and we have wealth of expertise as the daughter of shopkeepers, and been there, seen it and done it. gave a thorough going over of the Queen’s Speech. Small and medium-sized enterprises are the bedrock It also feels odd to speak on the first day of a of our economy. We were once described as a nation of parliamentary Session. It reminds me of when I turned shopkeepers, but we do not feel like that any more, as up here in the previous Session hoping to make my 111 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 112

[Chris Skidmore] and support, which I absolutely welcome, but it is worth reflecting on the word “modernise” and on what we maiden speech. I wanted to make it as soon as possible need to do to modernise adult social care and support. so that I could get into the cut and thrust of debate, so The Government recognise that tackling social care is I put in and waited to make it on several occasions. I not just an issue of tackling the funding of social care, will never forget my first moment in Parliament. I was important though that is. The Health Committee, of sitting in the corner of the Chamber and waiting, and which I am a member, has already produced a report on new Members on both sides bobbed up and down to say the Dilnot commission and recommended it to the how beautiful their constituencies were—it was funny Government, and I hope that the Government will look how that theme kept coming up. I waited from half-past 2, at it in the forthcoming White Paper and that we will without having a drink of water or going to the toilet, have proposals on the table. I know that there is cross-party until half-past 10. I sat there for eight hours, so afterwards support for looking at the Dilnot commission proposals I went over to the Chairman of Ways and Means and and that we had a Backbench Business debate on that in explained that I had hoped to be called that day. “Oh the previous Session. Members from across the House, no”, he replied, “You weren’t going to be called at all. regardless of their party colours, are passionate about You should have come and seen me and I could have tackling this issue and the impending crisis. told you that you were never going to make it today.” That was the first lesson I learnt here. Dr Coffey: My hon. Friend makes a really important point, but is he concerned that the Dilnot commission Priti Patel: Welcome to Parliament. and the risk of open liabilities could make the process unaffordable, or are Members being misinformed on Chris Skidmore: Absolutely. There is a lot of waiting that? going on here, but we do not have to wait long for the contents of the Queen’s Speech, which I will come to shortly. Chris Skidmore: The Dilnot issue, which is one of presentation, is that the Government commissioned a To continue with my anecdote for a moment, I remember report that addressed the specific question, “How do we still wanting to make my maiden speech as soon as fund social care as it currently stands?” That is why I possible, and sitting in the Tea Room looking through want to turn to the issue of modernisation, but we have the draft of what I hoped to say when a more senior to remember the important tenet that Dilnot does not Conservative Member came over and asked, “Oh boy, cover all forms of social care. It does not cover domiciliary you’re looking to make your maiden speech, are you?” I care or living costs, so it is not a panacea, and we as replied that I was and explained that I had waited to be parliamentarians must ensure that we work together called for eight hours the day before. “Oh well, there’s and at the same time—Dilnot was very strict on this—come only one piece of advice I can give you about making up with a proper system by which we can inform not your maiden speech,” he said. I was a young newbie and only elderly people now but the elderly people of tomorrow so asked what it was. “Well, just don’t muck it up,” he that they need to begin to save. Only by developing a said, before wandering off laughing. He actually used savings culture and a culture of contribution, which I stronger language, but I will not use it in the Chamber— shall turn to also in my speech, will Dilnot work and [Interruption.] Yes, indeed, it rhymes with muck. will we ensure that the social care system works tomorrow as well as today—although today it is beginning to fail, Stephen Pound: Don’t say it. as I shall explain. In modernising social care, we need to recognise that Chris Skidmore: Oh dear; hopefully the Hansard reporters the current system is not working on several levels. can delete that for me— Personally, I feel that local authorities are becoming not the best places in which to deliver social care. Last week Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. I published a report on local authorities and their To help the hon. Gentleman, I think that his colleague delivery of social care, demonstrating from a series of was telling him, “Good luck in making your maiden freedom of information requests to every local authority speech.” in the country that local authorities have already written off £400 million of debts owed to them by families—and Chris Skidmore: Indeed, and I wish the hon. Member are still owed more than £1 billion. for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) the best of luck in Put simply, we have a system in which local authorities contributing to this excellent debate on the Queen’s Speech. are not only struggling to provide care, but for financial The first line of the Queen’s Speech refers to the reasons have lowered the bar and reduced their eligibility importance of growth in the economy, but one of the criteria. They have done so principally because they sectors in which we know there will certainly be growth have to juggle social care with the services on which is social care, because we have an ageing population. We people really want to focus when they pay their council used to say that there are two certainties in life: death tax. For instance, people want their bins emptied or and taxes. We now know that our population is getting potholes filled, and that, for democratically elected ever older; by 2030 the number of 85-year-olds will local authorities, can take priority over those citizens double and 11% of the population living today will who are most vulnerable but who, unfortunately for reach 100. Therefore, we have an enormous cost—not a them, form a small minority. So roads and bins take burden—that society will face as a result of the population precedence over social care. That should not be the case, getting older, which is inevitably a good thing. The but at the same time local authorities are deeply mired Queen’s Speech recognises this, importantly, by proposing in debt because of their services, and we desperately a draft Bill that will seek to modernise adult social care need them to break out of that. 113 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 114

The current system also does not work because the building in which people say, “This is my budget for the failure of social care ends up rebounding in only one primary care trust, this is mine for the GPs and this is place: the NHS. We need to make the point strongly mine for the hospital.” People sit down and consider that the NHS and social care are two sides of the same their overall budget. They have in mind an 85-year-old coin, and that if there is a crisis in social care there will lady called Mrs Smith, and they ask what treatment soon be a crisis in the NHS. Even the IMF has produced pathway they could create to ensure that Mrs Smith figures on the NHS will look by 2050 if we do not gets the best possible care. manage our ageing population and work out ways of The authorities in Torbay recognise that social and prevention. We must also look not only at how elderly community care is the best way to prevent unplanned people can be given the life and dignity that they admissions to NHS hospitals. The result is that Torbay deserve, but at early intervention. If any problems that has the fastest-decreasing and lowest number of unplanned they may have, such as diabetes or a disability, are dealt hospital bed day admissions in the country. The approach with soon enough, it costs the NHS less. The IMF there clearly works, so the modernisation of social care predicts that the NHS will end up costing £230 billion must also be about proper, true integration between by 2050, and that is completely unaffordable. It means social care and health care. that the NHS will go broke unless we solve the social care crisis now. We also need to recognise that to modernise social care is not to speak of the elderly as some homogenous Dr Coffey: Does my hon. Friend agree that cross-party group. Above all, senior citizens are individuals with consensus on the draft social care Bill is critical? That is individual needs. Each will have their own particular why a draft Bill is appropriate. Does he agree also that, pathway through the later years in life. As a Government, as long as somebody is in hospital the NHS pays for we must recognise that to ensure that the individual has them, the draft Bill needs to tackle the key issue whereby the best possible life in old age, we must give them a local authorities sometimes delay a person’s exit from chance to lead their life as they would like to. hospital so that they do not have to pick up the bill in To do that, the Government have built on the work of the interim? the previous Government in introducing personalised services. Above all, we have seen the rise of personal Chris Skidmore: That is an interesting point. Obviously, budgets. In England, their uptake doubled, from April one of the first moves that the Government made when 2010 to March 2011, to almost 340,000 service users. they came into office was to create an output measure That is still only about 35% of eligible users and carers. of 30 days’ discharge from hospital. Although that was Although the increase in personal budgets is welcome, it created in August 2011, it is already controversial because has come in the form of local authority managed budgets, we are seeing the scale of the problem. The problem is rather than individual direct payments, which make up not new; it has always been there, but the Government only 26% of that 340,000—that is, 26% of the 35% of are for the first time providing the figures on how many eligible users. people are leaving hospital and rebounding back into Although there has been an increase in personalisation, hospital. We should have solved that problem sooner. there has not been a proper increase in individuals My hon. Friend argued for a cross-party approach, being given freedom in how they would like to use their and I entirely agree. We must achieve cross-party support budgets. In other words, councils are offering a menu on social care. We are talking about a settlement that to choose from but they are not offering a choice of must last decades, so it cannot be a patchwork solution restaurants. or a plaster over a wound that might open up in several years’ time. We need to come up with a binding compact Key to the modernisation of social care will be the on social care. I hope that the draft Bill will aspire introduction of direct cash payments. At present, individual to that. budgets cannot be paid to a spouse or partner to provide care, and that limits uptake and entrenches the I have talked about the relationship between the NHS difficulty that millions of people have in wanting to care and social care. The Government have recognised that for a loved one in their old age. If we look across to the the future of saving the NHS will come through a continent, we see that places such as Germany have a consideration of social care. We focus very much on the far more liberalised social care system. In Germany, NHS, and the Health and Social Care Bill of the people are assessed as needing care at one of three previous Session tried to address the matter. Funds levels, and they are then offered a choice between an were placed in the hands of GPs; for the first time, GPs individual budget cash payment with services in kind, are taking responsibility for patients. Rather than sending including residential care, and a tailored combination patients directly to hospital, GPs have to look at what of the two. Interestingly, the individual budget cash preventive measures they must take to cure illness or payment is of significantly lower value than the social disability. Over the past three years, the number of care package. In 2007, people who needed considerable over-80-year-olds who have been admitted into A and E care, or care level 1, received ¤384 per month; those in has risen by about 40%. We know that 65% of unplanned need of intensive care, or level 2, received ¤921 per NHS bed admission stays involve the elderly. If we can month; and those in need of highly intensive care, or solve that, we will solve a huge issue within the NHS. level 3, received ¤1,432 per month. They were also I am a member of the Health Committee, which offered the choice of claiming direct individual budget recently wrote a report on social care. We visited Torbay, cash payments that were about two thirds lower than which was instructive. The authorities there have ensured the payments in the social care package, which meant complete integration between social care and health that people at care level 1 received ¤205 per month, care services. They have done that by pooling budgets; those at care level 2 received ¤410 per month and those when they have team meetings, there is no empire at care level 3 received ¤665 per month. 115 Debate on the Address9 MAY 2012 Debate on the Address 116

[Chris Skidmore] published the Beveridge report on 1 December 1942. On that day, there were queues at the shops to purchase One might have expected the population to opt for the report, and in the first week 600,000 people did so. the higher payment, given that the social care package The report set out what the welfare state would look seems to be more sophisticated and pays more in euros, like for most of the 20th century. but in fact 49% of Germans decided instead to opt for In many ways, Beveridge still casts a shadow over us. the direct cash payment, which gave them greater choice The NHS and pensions were established, but when and freedom in how they spent the money, or spent it Beveridge wrote his report the average life expectancy for their relative. That control is every bit as valuable to was 69. When people received their pension at 65, their individuals as money. It gives them the opportunity to pensionable age was only meant to last an average of stay in their own home and receive informal care from four years. Beveridge never gave any thought to how we relatives. They can purchase the service they need without should care for the elderly. It was assumed that families an additional layer of bureaucracy getting in the way. would look after their elderly loved ones. Somewhere We can learn from what Germany did in modernising along the line, we have gone wrong. I am not blaming social care. Local authorities have traditionally focused any one political party, but why is it that in many on a one-size-fits-all response, in effect acting as a countries it is a mark of honour for people to look after single, inflexible state supplier that cannot hope to offer those who have brought them into this world? Why do the choice that people approaching their old age we pay people child benefit in recognition of being nowadays—baby boomers who have lived their lives parents but not focus on rewarding carers who look having choice—will want equally as they get older. after their parents? There is an imbalance, and I hope What would happen if we introduced such a system that by focusing on social care, as all parties must in this in this country? In 2009-10, local authorities spent Parliament, we can try to redress the balance. £3.4 billion on residential elderly care. On that basis, if I wish to end with a quote from Beveridge. The odd the same thing happened here as in Germany, with half thing is, the Beveridge report cannot be found online, this group opting instead for cash payments and staying but I managed to dig out from the Library a copy of the at home, we would save £1.14 billion a year, with people original 1942 report. Everyone remembers the five giants— receiving £566 million instead of £1.7 billion. We could Idleness, Squalor, Want, Ignorance and Disease—but free up £1.1 billion or £1.2 billion a year, which could go in the passage after that famous part Beveridge stated a significant way towards producing the money that that might then implement Dilnot. “social security must be achieved by co-operation between the Above all, the way in which people contribute to their State and the individual. The State should offer security for care must be something that they can control rather service and contribution. The State in organising security should than something that is done to them. We need to ensure not stifle incentive, opportunity, responsibility; in establishing a that in modernising social care we make the best possible national minimum, it should leave room and encouragement for services available. People will not put up with paying for voluntary action by each individual to provide more than that minimum for himself and his family.” the current levels of services if they do not think that they are good enough. If we are going to expect people Beveridge understood 70 years ago that we needed a to pay more for their social care in old age, knowing, as contributory principle in our public services. Somewhere we do, that it has never been free of charge—it is a bit of along the line, that has been lost. Only through individuals a nasty shock for some people when they find out that it making contributions towards their elderly care will we is not provided free—then they need to have the best achieve the best social care services. I hope that as we possible services for their money, and that, essentially, consider how to modernise social care, the draft Bill means choice. that will be published as a result of the Queen’s Speech will focus on all the matters that I have mentioned. With choice comes competition. We must ensure that there is thriving competition between social care providers. Much of the media’s focus has been on the other We must not only introduce direct cash budget payments place, which we might call a retirement home for rather but ensure that agencies are available to guarantee a successful eminent politicians, but what we actually level playing field. The Good Care Guide website is a need to focus on, and what our constituents want to fantastic resource, but we should be looking to introduce focus on, is retirement homes for the elderly population a TripAdvisor-type service into social care so that people as a whole and what is happening to them. We would do can analyse which are the best care homes and write well to remember that. I recognise that I have spoken about their own experiences of what they are like. We only about one specific point in the Queen’s Speech, but should trust the people to make those judgments. I believe it was possibly the most important one. I want to end by reflecting on this year. Many Members Ordered, That the debate be now adjourned.—(James have spoken about it being the year of the diamond Duddridge.) jubilee, but it is also 70 years since William Beveridge Debate to be resumed tomorrow. 117 9 MAY 2012 Universal Credit 118

Universal Credit Universal credit will be a household, not an individual benefit. It will be assessed on a whole household, so a Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House vast amount of supporting documentation will have to do now adjourn.—(James Duddridge.) be processed when individuals change their entitlements. Again, how can that supporting documentation be assessed 9.38 pm online? How will it be assessed centrally, given that we Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): May I will move away from the localisation of many applications? say what a lucky honour it is to have the first Adjournment That online assumption must be tested significantly. debate of the new Session? As a corollary, the next issue is the extent to which In October 2013, we will see one of the biggest the Government commit resources for the minority, changes to the welfare benefits system since the second whom they accept will struggle with applying online. world war with the introduction of the new universal What resources will be available for face-to-face advice credit. The Welfare Reform Act 2012 has gone through, and support for claimants who cannot go down the and there was a lot of focus on the fairness and unfairness digital route? I understand that the Department is planning of various benefit changes, but there was not much some sort of 0845 hotline numbers, but they are expensive, focus on the administrative changes involved in the especially for people with mobile phones. However, I move to universal credit—the changes to the process of am particularly interested in knowing how much money applying for benefits and being assessed for them. We has been put aside for the face-to-face service. should all welcome to some extent the rationalisation of A recent survey of the many district councils in a series of disparate benefits that have grown up over England and Wales suggests that they believe that 50% the decade. The administrative components of universal of people coming through their doors and applying, for credit will include the tax credit system, housing benefit, example, for housing benefit, need to do that face to income support, income-based jobseeker’s allowance, face. Obviously, that is at odds with the Government employment and support allowance and so on. assessment of presumably only 20% needing some sort Tonight, we are not debating the principle of universal of support other than the online arrangement. Investing credit, but considering the roll-out of the administration so much in the online arrangement is clearly a dangerous for the new arrangement and, of course, the massive ambition. I understand the logic of wanting greater consequences for our constituents. If it goes well—hopefully, take-up of digital applications, but I am anxious that it will—they may not notice anything untoward, but the target is so high, and I want to get a sense of the there are massive risks if the administrative transition is scenario planning and the arrangements that the not handled competently and carefully. That is essentially Government have considered if it is simply not deliverable. the purpose of my set of questions for the Under-Secretary We should cast our minds back to the difficulties with in the short time available today. I sent a list of the online tax credit arrangements. There was significant issues that I broadly wanted to raise to her private office fraud, which had to be addressed and meant the earlier today because some of the questions are technical. arrangements had to be changed. Will the Minister say I hope that we can get a little more on the record on the record that she is happy with the anti-fraud because there has not been that much opportunity to measures and the robustness and security of the new debate those issues so far, and we are talking about a online universal credit system? Clearly, it would be a change that will affect a million people in the first six tragedy if so many people were directed to an online months of the roll-out of universal credit from October system that had to be scaled back at the last minute 2013. because individuals found a way of fraudulently fleecing One of the most interesting facets of universal credit it because it was not secure or robust. is the Government’s decision that it should be digital by Will the Minister give an assurance—her noble Friend default: in other words, they are working on the assumption Lord Freud was unable to do so during the passage of that the vast majority of claimants will access their the Welfare Reform Act 2012—that the Government’s claims online. I think that the Government’s assessment intention to move to a monthly payment arrangement is that 80% of those claims will be made online. My first will have a degree of flexibility? In theory, it is desirable question therefore is whether the Under-Secretary can for everybody to plan their budgets and household reaffirm that that figure still represents the Government’s expenditure on a monthly basis, to mimic in-work salary assumption. Could she perhaps also give us a logical arrangements, but the trouble is that it is not the experience explanation of how that beautifully neat and round to date of many people. Many of my constituents in figure of 80% was reached? Nottingham, who have suffered a great deal of deprivation Many people who apply for universal credit are not or who are not on significant amounts of money take exactly frequent internet users: 15% of council tenants the parcels of money that come in housing benefit or have no access to the internet; one in six adults generally other benefits and hypothecate them for rent, bills or have never used it—that figure is as high as one in four other things. We are asking a great deal of people, in Northern Ireland, and one in five in the north-east sometimes later on in their lives, to change their habits and in Wales—and 4 million disabled people have never and take payments at the beginning of the month and used it. Consumer Focus research shows that 69% of ensure that they budget so that their rent is fully paid people want the ability to have face-to-face transactions for the rest of the period and beyond. for benefit claims at post offices and so on. I therefore The danger that people will accumulate increasing want to get a sense from the Under-Secretary of her arrears to pay for the roof over their head worries contingency plan if the 80% target is missed. How will me significantly, never mind local authorities, which we move towards such a major shift in the way in which already say that they have concerns about the collection people apply for their benefits? We are considering the of rent payments. Currently, housing benefit can be livelihoods of many people. paid directly to the landlord, the local authority or the 119 Universal Credit9 MAY 2012 Universal Credit 120

[Chris Leslie] “Agile”methodology, and Computer Weekly had a report recently in which it said that a leaked report from the housing association, but that is ending, so there is a Cabinet Office major projects authority suggested that great deal of anxiety about the continuity of housing the entitlement. “Agile methodology remains unproven at this scale”. As I have said, 15% of council tenants do not have An amber risk rating was attached. Is that the case? access to the internet. In fact, 15% have no access to a What is the Government’s assessment of the risks of the bank account and a further 15% have only a basic post change to this system by the DWP? The HMRC computer office account with limited functionality. Therefore, system will take a real-time approach to the PAYE nearly a third of social tenants might not have mainstream process, but again reports suggest that the timescale has banking capabilities available to them, yet we expect slipped beyond the April 2013 target. Can the Minister them to move in fairly short order to that monthly say whether that is true? budgeting arrangement. Hundreds of thousands of people If we are to contract out much of this activity, will it up and down the country, particularly those who do not be sent offshore? Will the work under these new have bank accounts, are massively mistrustful of the arrangements be done in the UK, or will much of the IT banking system—they are fearful of the overdraft charges or contact centre work be done in India or other countries? that can hit them if they are unable to plan or manage That would be another helpful clarification. their cash flow over that monthly period. Another important issue has to be the many thousands It is with those points in mind that I ask the Minister of staff who currently work on housing benefit in local this: is there any flexibility in the roll-out of universal authorities up and down the country. Unison and other credit to allow weekly or fortnightly payments for those representatives of the work force have also asked about who absolutely need them, or is she absolutely firmly this. I gather that the Government have decided that sticking to monthly payments for everybody? That is a TUPE will not apply to those who work in housing crucial question and I would be grateful if the Minister benefit administration in local authorities. So there will addressed it. be a massive redundancy programme in local authorities It would also help if the Minister could give us a and no take-up of those staff in the new, centralised better sense of the dates for transition to the central system arrangements. If that is the case, how will the Government as we move away from local authority administration. respond to the massive redundancy costs involved? Will There are currently 380 localised IT systems in local the Government compensate local authorities for those authorities up and down the country, largely to deal costs? Can the Minister say how much that will cost and with housing benefit. They will be phased out as we how many staff will be affected? A lump of money was move towards a central system, with one IT system at set aside at the beginning of the spending review period the Department for Work and Pensions and one at Her for the transition to universal credit. Have the assumptions Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. What resources have behind that sum stayed the same or have they changed? been available for the transition for councils that have a As the Minister will know, the Opposition have spotted residual responsibility for some activities over the period—it that she and many of her colleagues are under the will be 2017 before full roll-out? shadow of the omnishambles and that the Government’s We are starting the process of passing over responsibility record on competence has already been questioned. to the DWP in October 2013, but some councils will When it comes to universal credit, their reputation for process housing benefit until April 2014, and full migration competence is definitely on the line, and it has to be will not happen until 2017. How will councils be able to proven that they can fulfil their promises. This is a do this? It will remain a significant burden for local major risk not only to the Government’s reputation but government, and local council tax payers need to know to all our constituents, especially the most needy. whether Ministers will meet those costs. It is not necessarily as big an issue in my area as Nottingham city council is 9.55 pm a unitary metropolitan authority that has several different functions, but for some district councils housing benefit The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work is 25% of their turnover, so it is a somewhat mission-critical and Pensions (Maria Miller): I congratulate the hon. activity. They need to know to what extent they will still Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) on securing be in the business of such administration. What really is this debate. He is fortunate to have secured such an the commitment of the Government to a local roll-out important debate. of universal credit? Will it still be a local service or will It is fitting that the first Adjournment debate of the they shift in short order to that central arrangement? Session is on universal credit, because the Gracious As I read through the documentation, several secondary Speech today underlined the Government’s commitment issues arose. What about pensioners? Many are still to building a fairer, more responsible society, to supporting reliant on housing benefit, but universal credit is an families to do the right thing, to making work pay and in-work benefit, so who will be responsible for the to ending the something-for-nothing culture that gained administration of housing benefit to pensioners? That a foothold in this country for too long under the previous is a specific question and I would be grateful for the Administration. Universal credit is at the heart of delivering Minister’s clarification. Obviously, if local authorities on that commitment. are no longer involved in the administration of housing Universal credit will deliver a simpler and fairer benefit, how will pensioners continue to receive it? system, and our reforms will put work, whether full There will be two vast centralised computer systems, time, part time or for just a few hours a week, at the and the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee and centre of the welfare system. As such, it will extend a the National Audit Office are already voicing anxieties ladder of opportunity to those previously excluded or about these arrangements. The DWP is moving to the marginalised from the world of work. The current 121 Universal Credit9 MAY 2012 Universal Credit 122 system has an array of 30 different benefits, each with Maria Miller: As I was saying, the hon. Gentleman its own rules and criteria and characterised by overlaps, rightly picked up on the importance of the online duplication and complication. We all know from our aspect of universal credit. It is designed to be an online constituency surgeries how bewildering that can be for service, providing access and support to claimants 24 hours many individuals. a day. Importantly, it will also provide the service where Claimants need to submit several claims to different constituents are, as opposed to where jobcentres are. agencies to get the support they need and are required to communicate changes in their personal and financial Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Minister circumstances time and time again. Universal credit will for giving way, and I apologise for not being here for the create a much simpler system, by reducing the number beginning of the debate. I was at another engagement of benefits and agencies people have to work with, down below, and I did not realise that the Adjournment smoothing their transition into work and making it debate had started. easier to understand the available support. From 2013, I feel that certain people in the middle class are going universal credit will provide a new single system of to fall into the child poverty bracket as a result of the means-tested support for working-age people, whether introduction of universal credit. What assurance can in or out of work, and will include housing, children, the Minister give me that such people will not be child care costs and additions for disabled people and adversely affected by the changes that the Government carers. are proposing? As I set out, the main purpose is to help people into work. The new system will remove the distinction between Maria Miller: I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s in-work support for those working 16 hours a week or intervention. At the point of transition to universal more and out-of-work support for those working fewer credit, we want to ensure that people will continue to than 16 hours a week, eliminating some of those problems receive the support that they were receiving before, if we have seen in our constituencies and the need to claim there have been no changes to their circumstances. It is a different set of benefits when starting or ending a job, important for everyone to understand that, as a result or when changing working hours. of universal credit, we will be making work pay. We will How a benefit is paid to claimants is important ensure that more people can stay close to the labour because it will encourage people to manage their budgets market, which will help them not only to get out of in the same way as households. Claimants should be poverty but to stay out of it. We all know that families treated as they would if they were experiencing working can cycle in and out of poverty; it does not affect a life. The greater the difference between being out of static group of people. It is therefore important that we work and in work, the greater the barrier to returning to have that support in place. work. Universal credit will therefore be administered in I want to get back to the digital nature of universal one single monthly payment, as the hon. Gentleman credit. We make no apology for the fact that this is mentioned. We will be able to administer the payment designed to be an online service. It is designed to be on a more frequent basis, where necessary, but we will available 24 hours a day, and to be available where work closely with the people advising claimants to claimants are and when it is most convenient for them ensure that the support is there to keep this sort of to use it. The hon. Member for Nottingham East is atypical payment to a minimum. I think he would right to say that that will not be the right approach for accept that that is important. absolutely everyone, but let me stay with the group for which it will be the right approach. Estimates show that The greater simplicity of universal credit will result in about 80% of individuals are already accessing services a substantial increase in the take-up of currently unclaimed in an online scenario. We are not assuming that 80% benefits, with the greatest impact being on poorer families. will use the online service at the outset; we have always As I am sure that Members know, the combined impact recognised that not everyone will be able to claim online. of this increased take-up will lift 900,000 individuals However, we expect that the proportion who do so will out of poverty, including more than 350,000 children grow over time. We will supplement all of that with a and about 550,000 working-age adults. face-to-face and telephone service that will always be The hon. Gentleman did not touch on one child care available, for just the kinds of groups of people whom issue that I would like to bring to the attention of the the hon. Gentleman referred to. House. I am sure he will know that child care costs can To ensure that we resolve any issues in advance of the often be a significant issue for people trying to remain system going live, and that we have the right kind of close to the work place. Universal credit will introduce a support in place, we are already working with local new way of supporting families. An extra 80,000 extra authorities on a number of pilot schemes. I urge the families will be eligible to receive support for the first hon. Gentleman to look at the work that we are doing time, because people who are working shorter hours with the Local Government Association. We have also will be able to claim child care support. recently issued a joint prospectus calling on local authorities The hon. Member for Nottingham East rightly talked to deliver pilots to support residents in preparation for about the importance of the digital process— the introduction of universal credit in 2013. The pilots are expected to start in the autumn of this year and to end by September 2013. We will focus on delivering the 10 pm kind of face-to-face support that individuals might need when claiming universal credit. I hope that he will Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 9(3)). agree that we will have a wide range of support available. Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House It will be available online, as well as face to face and on do now adjourn.—(James Duddridge.) the telephone. 123 Universal Credit9 MAY 2012 Universal Credit 124

[Maria Miller] Chris Leslie: I am sorry to intervene, as I know we are getting short of time. The analysis of the support needs The hon. Gentleman is right to say that it is important of an individual, either face to face at the first point of to get the IT right for this, and we are well under way in application or subsequently in recognition of exceptions our designs and in testing the system to ensure that such as weekly payments or direct payments for landlords, universal credit is introduced in 2013. Our ambition is a key point. How will it be done? Will it be a local will, of course, always be to move the majority of people service? Is it assumed that predominantly local authorities on to use of the online system, and we are working will pick up those responsibilities? I want to gain a sense closely with other Government Departments and beyond of who will be dealing with these things, as the Department to ensure that the best possible support is there to for Work and Pensions in Whitehall will not be doing enable access to the internet for many people, supporting the face-to-face work. claimants to get even more value from being online. The hon. Gentleman expressed an interest in the Maria Miller: I think the hon. Gentleman is right, issue of fraud and the work being done to ensure that and in the pilots we shall pick up some of those issues, safeguards are in place. It will come as no surprise to particularly the sorts of support that local authorities him to hear that we take the issue of fraud very seriously could provide. Jobcentre Plus will also be involved from indeed. Its prevention has been built into the heart of the launch of universal credit as an on-site, readily all policy and service design development. Universal available resource. The hon. Gentleman is right that we credit will be protected by comprehensive and sophisticated have to make sure that the appropriate support is there cyber-defence and counter-fraud systems, which are for the people who might need it, and we want to ensure currently under development with leading suppliers. I that such systems are available so that universal credit am sure that the hon. Gentleman will want to stay close becomes the success we know it will be. to the sorts of issues that we are dealing with, but he will understand if I do not go into the details of those The hon. Gentleman spoke of the importance of systems, as they are sensitive and not for open discussion. understanding the phased migration fully. We recognise that the move from one welfare system to another needs The hon. Gentleman raised the issue of monthly to be managed carefully, so that no one is left without payments, which I have touched on a little already. To the support that they need. The transition from the old be absolutely clear, we believe it important for universal benefit system to universal credit will therefore take credit to reflect what people experience in the workplace place in three phases over four years, ending in 2017 when they are working full time. For the most part, that when between 12 million and 13 million benefit and tax means being able to budget around a monthly payment, credit claims will become 8 million universal credit a monthly salary or a monthly amount of money coming claims. in. We will ensure that there is flexibility in the system for those who find that exceptionally difficult, but we In the first phase, beginning in October 2013, all new believe that this will be an exception and not the rule. claims to the current benefits and credits will be phased out by April 2014, with new claims to housing benefits and tax credits being the last to end in that month. Jim Shannon: I can see the logic behind the change to Natural migrations to universal credit as a result of a monthly payments, but it is clear that some who get significant change of circumstances will also be taken weekly payments are not knowledgeable enough to from October 2013. know how to manage their moneys. Will the Government give any help to those who will depend on single weekly In the second phase, which will begin in April 2014, payments to start with, who will then have to manage existing claimants whose circumstances have not changed on monthly payments, on how best to manage their will start to be transferred to universal credit through money? managed change. It is expected that, as most of the households whose members are actively seeking work will have been moved through the new claims or natural Maria Miller: The hon. Gentleman will be reassured changes route by April 2014, the households involved in to know that my noble Friend Lord Freud is looking at that phase will generally be those with people in part-time exactly those issues. We know that changing people’s work and those that are economically inactive. Priority behaviour cannot happen overnight. People need support will be given to households the nature of whose work and we will make sure that we understand the sort of makes them most likely to benefit from universal credit. support that will prove the most effective, as the hon. Gentleman would expect us to do. In the third and final phase, from the end of 2015 The hon. Member for Nottingham East talked about until the end of 2017, the remaining households will be the importance of banking in this process. Direct payments moved into the new system. Local circumstances, such to bank accounts are an important part of helping as staffing turnover, contractual obligations and people to prepare for work. We will encourage claimants demography, will be taken into account. The households to use bank accounts, and we are discussing this very will be moved on to universal credit in good time before issue with the British Bankers Association. We recognise, housing benefit loads become too small to be viable. however, that it will not be suitable for everybody, so we Within those parameters, the focus on work and poverty expect to continue to pay rent directly to landlords in will be retained. That should allow local authorities to some cases and we will continue to ensure that suitable plan with more certainty over the medium term. payment arrangements are in place for everybody. The The hon. Gentleman rightly sought clarification of hon. Gentleman is right that we need that nuanced the important issue of housing benefit for pensioners. approach for some individuals. The bulk of individuals, Following the abolition of housing benefit, help with we believe, should be able to cope with the sort of rent and child costs will be provided through pension monthly payments that I mentioned earlier. credit, and will broadly follow the existing rules. 125 Universal Credit9 MAY 2012 Universal Credit 126

The hon. Gentleman mentioned a number of information deal with that issue correctly. When universal credit technology issues. I am not sure that I can cover all of comes into force in October 2013, local authorities will them today, but I can assure him categorically that there have an important role to play, and that role will begin will be no offshore outsourcing of the administration of to change, too, so they will go through a period of universal credit, that the Department will send no existing transition. They will need to make sure they continue to British jobs overseas, and that no personal data are held work with us through this process. The Local Government or can be accessed outside the United Kingdom. Many Association and the DWP recently issued a joint prospectus sub-contractors started using overseas staff under the calling on local authorities to work on the pilots I have last Government. We are considering how jobs that mentioned. We recognise that costs will be associated used to be sent offshore could be moved back to the UK with that process and the wind-down of housing benefit, in the future. I hope that the hon. Gentleman would and we will discuss that with DCLG and the local welcome such a move. authorities in due course. I do not think that the hon. Gentleman raised the issue of real-time information, but I shall bring him up Chris Leslie: The Minister says that there will be a to date in case he is interested. Real-time information is negotiation and that she will discuss this matter with being introduced in HMRC to improve the operation of local authorities, but she has to accept that central the pay-as-you-earn system, which will make it easier Government have decided to introduce the universal for employers and HMRC to share information. Under credit, and that a number of housing benefit and local universal credit, entitlement for people who pay tax on authority staff will be made redundant. In a sense, the their earnings through PAYE will correspond directly Government are forcing local authorities to make their with earnings information received through HMRC’s staff redundant. The Minister has to accept that they automatic real-time information PAYE data transfer. must be compensated by central Government for that. HMRC began pilot-testing RTI in April, and has already introduced 10 employer schemes representing a Maria Miller: The hon. Gentleman has made a number range of sizes with the aim of ironing out any wrinkles. of assumptions. As I have outlined, the introduction of I understand that the initial pilot stage has gone well, universal credit will take place over a number of years. and that a further 310 employers joined the pilot yesterday. Local authorities already know it is coming, so it would We are working closely with HMRC to ensure that be prudent of them to be planning for the changes and systems are in place for the introduction of universal to make sure that they cause as little disruption as credit. possible to their staff. Local authorities will have an important role to play in the future, whether in respect The hon. Gentleman rightly mentioned the important of their staff or of minimising any costs associated with role of local authorities. They have been, and will the change. I urge the hon. Gentleman not to make continue to be, integral to the development of universal assumptions as to how local authorities will deal with credit. We have undertaken extensive work with authorities this process. I think most of them will want to plan the to ensure that they help us to develop universal credit, transfer sensibly and avoid any unnecessary costs. and to tap into their expertise. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the local authorities associations I hope I have covered the majority of the points the of England, Scotland and Wales for their constructive hon. Gentleman raised. This debate has provided us engagement with us, especially those authorities that with a tremendous opportunity to discuss an important have already committed time and resources to helping part of the Government’s reform agenda, which is based to make universal credit a success. on making sure that work pays, and that we have a strong and robust benefit system that supports families On 21 March the permanent secretaries of my in the right way in order to make sure they can lift Department and the Department for Communities and themselves out of poverty and that people, both disabled Local Government wrote to chief executives informing and non-disabled, have the opportunity to go to work. them that local authorities will be expected to provide These reforms are a central plank of Government policy. face-to-face support for certain universal credit claimants who will need more intensive help to access the new Question put and agreed to. benefit. The hon. Gentleman raised the important issue of 10.18 pm staff. Local authorities will want to ensure that they House adjourned.

1P Petitions9 MAY 2012 Petitions 2P

has helped reduce crime and make people feel safer; Petitions notes that under Government proposals the police budget will be cut by 20%, that over 16,000 police officers will Wednesday 9 May 2012 be lost and that for Humberside Police Force cuts will be even greater than the national average, with a 25% OBSERVATIONS reduction in the police budget; further notes that Humberside police force is projected to have 250 fewer police officers in March 2012 than in March 2010; and COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT declares that the Petitioners believe that this will hamper the efforts of the police to prevent crime and keep Emergency Fire Control Services in Cumbria citizens safe. The Petition of residents of Cumbria, The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Declares that the Petitioners oppose the decision by Commons urges the Government to support the work Cumbria County Council to outsource services currently of the police in ensuring that the downward trend in provided by Cumbria Emergency Fire Control to Cheshire overall crime continues by at least maintaining 2010 in 2012 and eventually a regional facility in 2014. levels of uniformed police officers in England and Wales. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Diana Commons urges the Government to encourage Cumbria Johnson, Official Report, 7 February 2012; Vol. 540, County Council to re-consider their decision to outsource c. 276.] Cumbria Emergency Fire Control services and ensure [P001005] that before any further decisions are made, all plans, including a full breakdown of the financial business Observations from the Secretary of State for the Home case are made available through a public consultation. Department: And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Tim The Government support the work of the police, Farron, Official Report, 17 April 2012; Vol. 543, c. 291.] both in Humberside and across England and Wales as a whole. [P001017] Observations from the Secretary of State for Communities The reductions in funding for the police are challenging and Local Government, received 8 May 2012. but manageable. This Government inherited the largest peacetime deficit in Britain’s history, and have had no The Secretary of State for Communities and Local option but to take urgent action. As a service spending Government is aware that a consortium of Fire and £14 billion per year, the police cannot be exempt from Rescue Authorities in the North West (Cumbria, Greater the requirement to save public money. Manchester, Lancashire and Cheshire) are seeking to use the control centre building in Warrington, procured However, Government funding is not the only source as part of the terminated FiReControl Project, as a of income for the police. About a quarter comes from shared control service for the four authorities. the police precept (element of council tax). The level of Decisions to share control services and use the police precept is set by the police authority and, from Warrington building are entirely a matter for the four 2012, the Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC). authorities. Humberside Police Authority has taken the decision to increase their precept by 3.99% for 2012-13. If future Following closure of the previous Government’s failed precept decisions of the Police and Crime Commissioner FiReControl programme, which wasted half a billion for Humberside follow a similar pattern to those taken pounds of taxpayers’ money, the Coalition Government by the Police Authority in recent years, the force will consulted on the best way to improve the resilience and face at most a 7% cash reduction in overall funding over efficiency of fire and rescue control services in England. the spending review period. This established that there was broad support for a localist approach with locally determined and delivered The effectiveness of a police force depends not on projects. overall numbers but on how well it deploys its resources. Recorded crime fell by 4% over the last year, while total The Secretary of State is clear that it is for Fire and police officer numbers reduced over the same period. Rescue Authorities to deliver local control services in Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary have made the way that best meets the needs of their communities clear that there is no simple link between officer numbers and provides value for the taxpayer. Decisions should and crime levels, between numbers and the visibility of be made by local elected representatives, accountable to the police in the community, or between numbers and the local electorate. the quality of service provided. Fire and rescue authorities should be open and transparent in their dealings, including following the We do know, however, that forces can do more to “Code of Recommended Practice for Local Authorities ensure that frontline services are prioritised. Her Majesty’s on Data Transparency”. Inspectorate of Constabulary has shown that, on average, only 12% of officers and PCSOs are visible and available at key times. Additionally, in March 2010 there were HOME DEPARTMENT around 25,000 police officers and PCSOs working in non-frontline functions, including over 7,000 police officers Police Cuts (Humberside) working in back office jobs. The Petition of residents of Hull, The Government are aware that forces are already Declares that the Petitioners believe that the Government doing more on this agenda. Her Majesty’s Inspectorate have a duty to protect citizens from crime; that the of Constabulary have found that police forces are planning significant increase in police officers over the past 10 years to increase the proportion of police officers and staff 3P Petitions9 MAY 2012 Petitions 4P working on the frontline from 68% in 2010, to 70% by efficiency. Collaboration between forces, better IT, and March of this year, with that trend expected to continue. better procurement will help reduce costs whilst maintaining Nevertheless, forces can go further and organise their services. This Government are aware that all police resources better while ensuring they are focused on forces are taking steps to reduce spending, while striving what the public wants. Smarter deployment; shift patterns to improve the service they deliver for the public. With that better reflect demand for services from the public; transformational changes in the way police forces work, reducing bureaucracy and increasing the scope for officers savings of over £2 billion a year are possible—exceeding to use their professional judgment will all help improve the reductions in police funding. PETITIONS

Wednesday 9 May 2012

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT .1PHOME DEPARTMENT...... 1P Emergency Fire Control Services in Cumbria ...... 1P Police Cuts (Humberside) ...... 1P Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Wednesday 16 May 2012

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their Speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), on application to the Stationery Office, c/o the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons, from whom the terms and conditions of reprinting may be ascertained. Application forms are available at the Vote Office.

PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £3·50. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £525. WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords, £6. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440. Lords, £225. Index: Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 545 Wednesday No. 1 9 May 2012

CONTENTS

Wednesday 9 May 2012

List of Government and Principal Officers and Officials of the House

Speaker’s Statement [Col. 1]

Queen’s Speech [Col. 3]

Debate on the Address (First day) [Col. 6] Debate adjourned

Universal Credit [Col. 117] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Petitions [Col. 1P] Observations