101

No. 24.

MINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS

OF THB

LEGI SLATI VE COUNCIL.

WEDNESDAY, 7 OOTOBE.R, 1891. 1. The House met, pursuant to adjournment. In the absence of the President, the Chairman of Com· mittees, Mr. Jacob, took the Chair of the H ouse, under the 9th section of the Standing Orders, at half-past Four o'clock, and r ead the following communication received by him this day from the President :- "Dear Mr. J acob, Rose Bay, 'ith October, 1891. " I enclose herewith a note received tbis day from my medical advisers, in whom I need not " say I repose the most complete confidence, and which I beg that you will read to my :friends of "the Council when you assemble to-day. " I have received such uniform kindness from them, and now for so many years, that I "cannot help saying how much I feel even a temporary separation from them. "Yours truly, "JOHN HAY." "Dear Sir John, " , 7th October, 1891. " We have carefully considered the question of your continuing to carry on your official " work at the Legislative Council, and we are of opinion that for the present you should entirely' " abstain from that or any other duty which would involve you in prolonged physical exertion. " We are, yours faithfully, " CH ARLES K. MACKELLAR, M.B. "The Honorable Sir John Hay, K.C.M.G. "R. SCOT-SKIRVING, M.B." Members present :- The Honorable Archibald Hamilton Jacob, Chairman Presiding. Tho IIonorable William Robert Campbell, The Honorable H enry Nol'II!-an MacLaurin, M.D., The Ilonora.ble Samuel Charles, L L.D., The Honorable Edward Combes, C.M.G., The Honorable Charles Moore, The Honorable George Hem·y Cox, The Honorable Henry Moses, The Honorable J ohn Mildred Creed, M.R.C.S., The Honorable James Norton, LL.D., Tho Honorable J ohn Davies, C.M.G., The Honorable Daniel O'Connor, The Honorable Leopold Fane De Salis, The Honorable Richard Edward O'Connor, The Honorable Alexander Dodds, The Honorable William Hilson Pigott, The Honorable Peter Faucett, The Honorable Charles Edward Pilcher, Q.O., The Honorable Ancb:ew GaiTan, LL.D., The Honorable Alban Joseph Riley, The Honorable William Halliday, The Honorable Charles James Roberts, C.M.G., The Honorable Richard Hill, The Honorable Jeremiah Brice Rundle, 'I'he Honorable , The Honorable George Bowen Simpson, Q.C., Tho Honorable Frederick Thomas Humphery, The Honorable l{obert Burdett Smith, C.M.G., The Honorable Sir Patrick Alfred Jennings, The Honorable John Stewart, K.C.M.G., LL.D., The Honorable William Henry Suttor, Tlw Honorable Henry Edward Kater, The Honorable Harman John Tarrant, F.R.C.S., Tho IIonorn.ble Andrew Taylor Kerr, L.R.C.P., The Honorable Philip Gidley King, The Honorable William Joseph Trickett, The Honorable John Lackey, The Honorable Ebenezer Vickery, The Honorable John Macintosh, The Ilonorable Edmund Webb, The Honorable Charles Kinnaird Mackellar, The Honorable Robert Hoddle Driberg White. 3LB., C.M., 2. P.u•ERS :-:Nir. Suttor laid upon thE) Table the nndermentioned papers :- (1.) By-laws of the Borough of East Kiama, under the Municipalities Act of 1867 and the Nuisances Pre\""ention Act, 1875. (2.) By-laws of the Municipal District of Hamilton. · (:J.) By-law of the Municipal District of Wellington. ( 1.) Twelfth Annual Report of the City of Sydney Improvement Board. (:).) Progress Report of State Forest administration in for 1890. Ordered to be _printed. 3. 102 ~NUTES OF TllE PROCEEDT.NGS

3. LAND Co~rPAiVY oF Aus'l'RA.LASIA. R.uLWAY Bu.L :- (1.) Mr. Humphery, as Chairman, brought up tho Second Report from, and laid upon the Table the Minutes of Proceedings of, and Evidence taken before, the Select Committee for whoso considcrn. tiou and report this B'ill was a second time referred on the 3rd Se1'tember ultimo, together with a copy of the Bill as further amended and agreed to in the Committee. . Ordered to be printed. (2.) Mr. Hum1Jbery then moved, That tho second reading of this Bill stand au Order of the Day for to-morrow fortnight. Question put and passed. 4. Eunol'EAN Co:mmnciA.L TREATIES :-Mr. Creed, having, pursuant to Notice, asked the Vice-President of the Executive Council,- (!.) \.Vhy >vas not the communication requesting a reply to a despatch previously received, referred to in the answer to section 5 of Mr. Creed's Question No. 3 on the Minutes of 30th September, 1891, together with the despatch to which it calleclnttention, n,ncl the replies thereto, included in the Return of 23rd September to the Address of this House for the production of papers concerning the views of the Colonies in regard to tho expiry of European commercial tren,ties? (2.) Who is responsible for the omission of these papers from that Return? Mr. Sutter replied,-The communication referred to, although being on commercia,! treaties, doe> not apparently come within the moaning of the Add1·ess asking for the papers, and was therefore omitted in the preparation of the Roturn, but there will be no objection to its production if it is re::~>lly requir ecl. 5. FnEE PASSES ON GovERN~ENT RAILWAYS :-Mr. Hoskins h::~>ving, pursuant to Notice, asked. the Vice-President of the Executive Council,- (!.) Arc free passes, entitling the holders thereof to travel free of cost over the railways of New South Wales, granted to the wives and families of Ministers of the Crown and Members of P:.trliament? (2.) How many free passes were issued during the year 1890? ~Ir. Suttor replied,- (!.) It is not a fact t hat free passes are gra,nted entitling the wives and families of Members to travel over the railways of New South \Vales, but an occasional ]Jass is issued for a limited period to the wives of Honorable Members of tl1e other colonies visiting New South \Vales, or to the wives of Honomble Members of New South \Vales. (2.) One hundred and four such passes were issued during 1890. The Co1onial Secretary desires me to add that he has no knowledge of tho names of families of Ministers of the Crown travelling on the rnilw:.~.y s free. G. B.A.r,A.CT,A.VA TRAMWAY Brr.r, OF 1891 :-M1·. Lackey presented a petition from Wyman Brown, praying for leave to introduce a Bill to authorise the construction and maintenance of a Tramway from tbe mines and quarries on mineral lease portion 2, parish Sebastopol, in the Colony of Kcw South Vvales, to a }Joint to be determined on mineral lease portion 10, parish Picton, in the said Colony, connecting with the tramway system of the Broken Hill mines. And Mr. Lackey having produced copies of the Got·ermnent Gazette, the Syd1uy Mo1'n£n,q Herald, and the Silver Age, containing the requisite notice of the intention to apply for such Bill,­ Petition received. 7. RuTLAND Fr,ux TnHIWAY BILL (Fo1·mal Business) :- Mr. Lackey, on behalf of Ur. Day, moved pursuant toNotice,- (1.) That the l~utlancl Flux Tramway Bill be referred for consicler:1tion and report to a Selcd Committee. (2.) 'l'hn.t such Committee consist of the fo1lowing Members, viz. :-Mr. Suttor, Mr. Hoslcins, J\'fr. King, 1\{r. Jacob, Mr. Charles, Mr. Lackey, Mr. Hill, Mr. Dodds, Mr. R. B. Smith, and the Mover. Question put and passed. 8. BROKEN HILL AND DISTRICT WATER SuPPLY .AcT .A:r.rF.NDMENT BILL (Formal Business) :-Mr. Trickett moved, pursuant toN otice, for leM'e to introduce a Bill to extend the time for completing the Broken Hill and District \Yater Supply Company's (Limited) Works, and to amend the "Broken Hill and District Water Supply Act of 1888." Question put n,nd passed.

9. ~IA.JOn - GENEltAL HARDING STEWJI..ll.D :-Mr. Creed moved, pursuant to Notice, That an Address be presented to 1he Governor, praying that His Excellency will be pleased to cause to be laid upon the Table of this House a copy of the ptoposition of the Commandants of the Australian Colonies, made during a meeting in December, 1890, to supersede :i\'Iajor-General Harding Steward as Military Adviser to the Australian Govel'llments in England, and to appoint an Imperial Officer on the active list to that post; together with any communications from those officers to or through tl1e Victorian or other Australian Governments, or fl'Om the Victorian Government to thi~ Government', in relation to this subject, together with ally minutes thereo n, replies, or other documents relating thereto. Debate ensued. Question put and passed. 10. BROKEN HrLL AND DrsTRICT IV..l.TER SurnY Ac'l' Ai\rENDMENT BrLr, :-Mr. Trickett presentt'd this Bill, :mel ha,ving produced a certificate that the sum of Twenty-five Po'unds had been paid to t ho credit of the Consolidated R evenue, Bill, iutituled ".A. B ill to exftmd tlte timefo1· completin.q tlte B1'oken H ·ill and District Water Supply Company's (Limited) Wo1·ks, and to amend tl1t 'B1·ol.:en Hill and Dist1·ict Water Supply Act of 1888,' "- read a firs t time.

11. DEPUTY CrrAIR~IAN OF Co~MITTEEs :- 1\'lr. Suttor (by consent) moved, "·itbout previous Notice, That the Honorable 'William Joseph Trickett do take the Chair of the Committees of tho 'Whole House :for this day only: Question put and passed. 12. 103 OF TH E LEGI SLATIVE COUNCIL.

1!?. Cnow~ LANDS AcT AliiENDMEN'r BILL:- (1.) The time being como for the Free Conference with tho Legislative Assembly on the subject of the Assembly's amendment upon the Council's amendment in clause 3, disagreed to by the Council and insisted on by the Assembly, and the Council's amendment in clause 4, disagreed to by the Assembly and insisted on by the Council, in the Crown Lands Act Amendment Bill,-the Clerk, by direction of the Chairman Presiding, called over the names of the Managers on behalf of the Council. And the said Managers having answered in their places respectively, with the 'exception of the Honorable S. A. Stephon,- l\:I:r. Suttor moved t hat the Honorable John Lackey bo appointed a Manager of the said Conference in lieu of the Member not answering to his name. Question put and passed. The Managers then proceeded to the Conference, attended by the Usher o£ the Black Rod,-the business of the House being suspended during their absence,- The Managers ha. ving returned,-Mr. Suttor, on their behalf, rep01·ted that the Mana~m·s chosen by tl1is House had met the Ma.nagrrs for the Legislative Assembly at the said Conference, and that, after discussion, the Conference agreed to the following Resolutions :-" (1.) That " the L egislative Assembly's disagreement with the Council's amendment at the end of " sub-section (v) of clause 3 be acceded to, and the following words be added in lieu of " tl1e words omi tted:- ' Provided that should the Minister decide in any case contrary to the " recommendation of the Land Board or Land Court, as the case may be, he shall, on the day of so " deciding, record in writing in the Lands Department his reasons for so doing, and the Minister '· shall, as soon as practicable, lay upon the Table of the Legislative Council and the Legislative "Assembly a copy of his decision, together with such reasons as aforesaid.' " {2.) That the Conference agrees to the Legislative Council's amendment at the end of clause 4." (2. ) 1\:I:r. Suttor then moved, that the Chairman Presiding do now leave the Chair, and the House Tesoh'e itself into a Committee of the Whole for considemtion of the report of the Council's Managers of the Free ConfeTcnce v•·ith the L egislative Assembly in reference to certain of the Council's amendments in this BilL Question put and passed. · Whereupon the Chairman Presiding left the~bair, and the H ouse resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole accordingly. , 'l'he Deputy Chairman reported the following Resolutions:- (1.) That this Committee does not insist on the Council's amendment at the end of sub-section (v) of clause 3, but agrees to the following words being added in lieu thereof, viz.:-" Provided that " should the Minister decide in any case contrary to the recommendation of the Land Board or " Land Court, as the case may be, he shall, on the clay of so deciding, record in writing in tl1e '· Lands Department his reasons for so doing, and the Minister shall, as soon as practicable, lay " upon the Table of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly a copy of his decision, " together with such Teasous as aforesaid." • (2.) That the Committee insists on the Legislative Council's amendment at the end of clause 4. :Mr. Trickett moved, that this report be now adopted. Question put and p!lssed. (3.) 1\Ir. Sutter then moved, That the following l\1:essage be carried to the Legislative Assembly:­ Mn. SPEAKF.n,- 'l'he LogislatiYe Council having taken into consideration the Legislative Assembly's U essnge, dated the 23rd September, J b9 l, and al ~ o the l~eport of the Managers, on ita behalf, of the Free Conference with the LP.gislative Assembly held this day iu reference to the Crown Lands Act Amendment Bill, accedes to the proposal of the Legislati>e Assembly to omit, at the end of sub-section (Y) of clause 3, the following words, ".And in any such case no absolute reversal of " such forfeiture shall take place except on the recommendation of such Board or Court," and to tho insertion in lieu thereof of the following words, "Provided that should the Minister decide " in a.ny case contrary to the recommendation of the Land Board or Land Court, as the case may " be, ho shall, on the day of so deciding, record in writing in the Lands D epartment his reasons " for so doing, and the Minister shall, as soon as practicable, lay upon the Table of the Legislative '· Council and the Legislatire Assembly a copy of his decision, together 'vith such reasons as " aforesaid." And insists upon its amendment at the end of clause 4 . • * ~· '" 'II< Question put and passed.

13. )fESSJ.GEs FROM TllE LEGISJ,ATIYE AssEMDLY :--Tho President reported tl1e following Mesoages from the Legislative Assembly:- (1.) Parliamentary Business Bill:- :1\lB. PRESIDENT,- The Legislative Assembly having tl1is day passed a Bill, iutituled "An Act to make p1·o­ vision jo1· the 1tr~finisltecl wo?·lc of n?1.1J Session i1~ ce1·tain cases being proceeded with in the next c11sui11g Session of tlte same .ParlimJtent,"-presents the same to the Legislative Council for its concurrence. Legislative Assembl.1f Ohambe1·, J. P. ABBOTT, Sgdne,1;, 7th October, 1891. Spouker. Bill, on motion of Dr. Garran, read a first time. Orde~·ed, 'fhat the second reading stand an Order of the Day for To-morrow week, and tl1at the Bill in the meantime be printed. (2.)

".l .... 104 :MINUTES OF TilE PROCEEDINGS

{2.) Partnership Bill:­ Mn. PBEsiDENT,- The Legislative Assembly having this day passed a Bill, intituled "An A ct to declar1 -and amend tlte law of Partnership,"- presents the same to the Legislative Council for its con- currence. Legislative Assembly 0/uvmber, J . P. ABBOT], Sydney, 7th October, 1891. Speake-r. Bill, on :rootion ef Mr. R. E. O'Connor, read a first time. Ordered, That the second reading stand an Order of the Day for To-morrow fortnight, and that the Bill in the meantime be printed. (3.) Arbitration Bill:- Mlt. PRESIDENT,- The Legislative Assembly having this day passed a Bill, intituled "An Act to amend and consolidate tlle law 1·elating to Arbitration,"-presents the same to the Legislative Council for its concurrence. Legislative Assembly Oltamber, J. P. ABBOTT, Sydney, 7tlt Oct{)ber, 1891. Speaker. Bill, on motion of Mr. R. E. O'Connor, read a first time. Ordered, That the second reading stand an Order of the Day for To-morrow fertnight, and thnt the Bill in the meantime be printed. (4.) Reduction of Cost of Litigation Bill:- Mn. PnESIDENT,- The Legislative Assembly having this day passed a Bill, intituled "An A ct to lessen the cost of Litigation "-presents the same to the Legislative Council for l.ts concurrence. L egislative Assembly Oltambe1•, J. P. ABBOTT, Sydney 7tlt Octobm·, 1891. Speaker. Bill, on motion of Mr. Suttor, read a first time. Ordered, That the second reading stand an Order of the Day for This Day fortnight, and that the Bill in the meantime be printed. The House adjourned, at twenty-five minutes before Eleven o'clock, until To-morrow at Four o'clock. ADOLPHUS P. CLAPIN, Ole1·l~ Assistant.

NOTICES OF MOTIONS .AND ORDERS,. OF THE D.AY.

TnunsDAY, 8 OcTonEn. QUESTION:- 1. Mn. CREED to ask TIIE VrcE-PnESIDENT OF THE EXECUTIVE CouNciL,- (1.) When will the return to the Address of this House in reference t o the examination of Officers of the Permanent Artillery for the rank of Major be laid upon the Table? (2.) Is the Government aware that one of the officers concerned very shortly leaves for England, and therefore will it hasten the }lroduction of these papers?

GENER.i.L DUSDmSS-NOTICES OF MOTIONS:- 1. Mn. CREED to move,- (1.) That, in the opinion of this House, it is advisable that such legis1'ttive action should be taken by the Government as would permit of tl1e imposition of differential customs duties, should such a course be found advantageous in the future. (2.) That an Address conveying the foregoing Resolution be presented to His Excellency the Governor. 2. Mn. CREED to move,- ( I.) That, in the opinion of this House, excepting to the post of Adjutant or Quartermaster, no person should be appointed as a Commissioned Officer in the Partially-paid or Volunteer Forces of this Colony unless be bas passed through the ranks of such forces. (2.) That an Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor embodying the foregoing Resolution. 3. 105 OF THE LEGISLATIY.E COUNCJT,,

3. 1fn. Lnrs to move, That there be laitl upon the Ta.ble of this House a Return showing the number of registered letters which vassed through the Post Office addressed to the keepers of betting­ houses or people conducting sweeps or consultations during each year commencing the l st of January, 1882, and ending 31st December, 1890, as well as all letters so addressed during the part of 1891 already past. ... ·~ ...... ·- .. .. 4. :lln. LACKEY to move for leave to bring in a Bill to authorise the constl'Uction nnd maintenance of a Tramway from the mines and quarries on mineral lease portion 2, -parish of Sebastopol, in the Colony of New South \ \Tales, to a point to be determined on mineral lease portion 10, parish of Picton, in the said Colony, connecting with t he tramway system of the Broken Hill mines.

:.i. ~In . TnrcKETT to move,- (L.) That the Broken Hill ancl District W ater Supply Act Amendment Bill of 18fll be referred to a Select Committee for consideration and report. · (2.) That such Committee consist of the following Members, v:iz. :-Mr. King, Dr. Garran, Mr. Creed, Mr. Dodds, Mr. Lackey, Mr. Hill, Mr. Kater, Mr. Moses, Mr. Humphery, and the Mover. ORDERS OF THE D.!.Y :- 1. Municipalities Act of 1867 Amendment Bill (Assembly B ill) ; to be further considerecl in Committee. 2. Legal Practitioners Bill (No. 2) ; resumption of the adjourned Debate of the question on motion of lli. Trickett, That this Bill be now read a second time. 3. Albury Mechanic~ Instilute Enabling Bill; resumption of the adjourned Debate of the question on motion of Mr. Creed, on behalf of Mr. Day, 'l'hat this Bill be now read a second time. 4. Au~tralian Gaslight Company Electric Lighting and Supply Bill; to be further considered in Com­ mittee.

WEDNESDAY, 14 0CTODER. Contingent Notice of Motion :- AUSTRA.LA.SIA.N FEDERATION-DRAFT BILL 011' THE CoNVEN'riON :-Mn. J.A.con to move as au amendment upon Mr. Suttot·'s Motion in reference to this subject, that the Question be amended by the omission, in lines 1 to 8, of the words-" re-affit·ms its opinion in favour of '' the Federation of the Australian Colonies, aud tnl1ing into consi<).eratio n all t he circumstances "of the constitution of the National Convention which met in Sydney in March last as a duly " authorised body, appointed by all the Parliaments of Australia, and hn.ving due regard to the "difficulties and the necessity f or compromise in reconciling conflicting i11terests and coming to a "common ground of n.greement, it hereby approves of the scheme for an· adequate Federal " Conl!titution embodied in t he draft Bill of the Convention; but it reserves to itself the right " to propose omissions or amendments, to be fully set forth by the proposer in each case in a '' Schedule, and to" with a view to the insertion in their place of the words, " is of opinion that '' the draft Bill to constitute the Commonwealth of Australia, a.s adopted by the National "Australasian Convention on Dth April, 1891, should be considered clause by clause, in Committee "of the whole Council, in the same mann~r as ordinary Bills, with the view of affording Members " the opportunity of proposing amendments to be submitted antl decided upon by the Committee "in the usual way; and, in t he event of the Bill being amended and the report of the Committee " adopted by the House, that the Bill, as amended, should " .And by the addition, after paragraph 2, of the following new paragraph :- " (3.) That the consideration of the sa1d Bill in Committee of the Whole stand an O.rder of the . " Day for the next day of sitting."

00\'ERNYE.XT DUSINESS- NOTICE OF MOTION :- L Ma. SUTTon to move,- (1.) That this House re-affirms its opinion in favour of the F ederation of the Australian Colonies, and, taking into consideration all the circumstances of the constitution of the N ationn.l Convention which met in Sydney in March last as a duly authorised body, appointed by all t he Parliaments of Australia, and having due regard to the difficulties and the necessity for compromise in reconciling conflicting interests, and coming to a common ground of agreement, it hereby approves of the scheme for an adequate Federal Constitution, embodied in the draft Bill of the Convention; but it reserves to itself the right to propose omissions or amendments, to bo fully set forth by the proposer in each case in a Schedule, and to be finally considered, if deemed advisable, by another Convention similarly constituted, and in like manner representing all the Colonies. (2.) That tbis House is f urther of opinion that the question as dealt with by this Parliament, should be submitted to the people in their electoral capacity for final approval.

THURSDAY, 15 OCTOBER.

GDEBAL liUSINESS-OlillERS GF THE D.A.Y :- 1 Sank Nets Bill; second reading. I. Nuisances Prevention Act Amendment Bill ; second reading. Hort's Dock and Engineering Company Enabling Bill; second. reading. Employers Liability Act Amendment Bill ; second reading. Parliamentary Business Bill ; second reading.

WEDNESDAY, 106 HINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF TIIl

.. WEDNESDAY, 21 Oc~oJJEn .

GENERAL llUSINESS- ORDER OF TIIE DAY :- J.. Reduction of Cost of Litigation Bill; second reading.

THURSDAY, 22 0CTOBER.

GENERAL BUSINESS- ORDERS OF TIIE DAY :- 1. Municipalities Act of 186'7 Amendment Bill; second reading. 2. Land Company, of Australasia. Rail way Bill (as further amended in Select Committee) ; second' reading. 3. Partnership Bill ; second reading. 4. Arbitration Bill; second rettding.

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