Is the Two-State Solution Still Alive?

Is the two-state solution still alive?

it occupies. What is preventing it which the U.S. can put significant PARLEY Given the unity of the Palestinians as well as from totally decimating Palestinian pressure on Israel in the way that it practical impediments, the solution is not viable life and their resistance is the voices had before. It’s also very important coming not only from the Palesti- to remember the critical role of the The 11-day fighting between Hamas er the occupation of the West Bank, nians within the occupied territo- Palestinians in bringing about the and Israel, coupled with protests including East Jerusalem, and Gaza. ries, but also the Palestinians from pressure — the pressure can’t just across the Palestinian territories The paradigm has been more or less within the state of Israel; and from come from growing sympathy for and Israeli cities, has turned the that of a border dispute. But when across the world. Therefore, the Palestinians in Congress or among spotlight once again on the Pales- the Palestinian people come togeth- pressure that the Israeli population, progressives or internationally. tine question. The internationally er and show that the Palestinians of both Jews and Arabs, can have on accepted solution to this crisis is the the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza their government to change its poli- The Israeli narrative is that it is so-called two-state solution. This are just one part of the Palestinian cies; the popular pressure on the fighting terror. The Israelis, the would mean that an independent, people and this is a national strug- American government to change its Americans and the European

sovereign Palestine state and an in- gle of all the Palestinian people who AP/PTI continued strong support for the Union have all designated dependent, sovereign Israeli state are still united as one, that para- state of Israel; and international Hamas as a terrorist would coexist in peace. But on the digm starts to make a lot less sense. nian refugees outside the occupied <> It would take power that pressure [to restrain Israel] from do- organisation. So, is Hamas ground, since the Oslo Accords were territories and outside historical the Palestinians currently ing what it is doing against the Pales- actually weakening the greater signed, there has been little progress If you look at it from the point Palestine. do not have in order to tinians all matter. There are ques- Palestinian movement or on the two-state solution and Israel of view of the Palestinian The whole idea of the Israeli Jew- tions on whether states in the making it stronger? really bring about any has only tightened its occupation of people, or from a historical ish people and the Palestinian peo- international community are ready solution. Palestine over the years. In a conver- point of view, we can argue that ple living together in a democratic to accept this reality of day-to-day AKR: If the Palestinian voices have sation moderated by Stanly Johny, the two-state solution doesn’t state is still treated as a utopia. But Nathan Thrall oppression of a set of people. But to be heard, we have to recognise Nathan Thrall and A.K. Ramakrish- make sense. But practically, what is important is to recognise within Israel and within the U.S., the diversity of voices amongst the nan discuss the past, present and what do you think can be done? that the events in the current phase Palestinian liberation and return of pressure is much more significant. Palestinians. In the initial days [of future of the Palestine question. of the conflict are leading to newer the refugees all precede the 1967 the Palestinian resistance], several Edited excerpts: A.K. Ramakrishnan: What is sig- thinking and therefore, when one War. So, the roots of the Palestinian Nathan, in your book you have Palestinian organisations, including nificant is to recognise that from thinks about a solution, one has to national movement are much deep- written that Israel has made Fatah and PFLP [Popular Front for The most recent phase of the 1967 onwards, Palestinian territo- take into account the new narratives er. concessions in the past, but the Liberation of Palestine], took Israel-Palestine crisis was more ries have been under Israeli control. that are emerging out of newer Now, it’s clear that a two-state so- only when it was forced to do the armed struggle as their way of than the bombing of and And that is where the narrative has types of struggles. lution isn’t happening. Even the so, whether due to placing the Palestine issue before rockets from Gaza. There were to change from two entities fighting two-state solution, the more realis- international pressure or the international community and to Nathan Thrall also protests from the Gaza against each other for a particular The two dominant political tic version of it, where the Palesti- violent Palestinian resistance. resist Israeli occupation. But then is the author of ‘The Strip through the Israeli cities piece of land to the very conception factions of the Palestinian side nian state is demilitarised, where Now, you have a Democratic under [PLO Chairman Yasser] Ara- Only Language They to East Jerusalem and West of a colonial order. If the reality of have directly or indirectly Palestinians have tunnels that they administration in Washington. fat’s leadership, the PLO came to Understand’ and a Bank. How do you look at this the coloniser-colonised equation is accepted the idea of two states. can use to go under sub-sovereign Do you see any kind of the negotiating table, took the di- contributor to ‘The development? recognised, one can think about In that context, and given the Israeli territory in order to reach Al- meaningful pressure coming plomatic path. The First Intifada New York Times what solution is possible. other challenges, is a one-state Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, where from the White House, or the was more or less non-violent. It is in Magazine’ and the Nathan Thrall: This [escalation] And in addressing that aspect of solution a utopia? most of the settlements [in the West liberal flank of the Democratic that context that Hamas emerged, in ‘London Review of was rather different from the escala- resolving the conflict, this recogni- Bank and East Jerusalem] will be an- Party, on Israel, that would 1987. And Hamas became part of the Books’ tions that we saw in Gaza in 2014, tion of the complete control of Is- NT: It’s correct that the main politi- nexed to Israel, where Gaza and the force Israel to make some armed resistance. 2012, 2009 and 2008. The Palesti- rael is the first step. But that’s pre- cal parties among the Palestinians West Bank are disconnected from concessions to the Palestinians? The whole point of talking about nian citizens of Israel protested in cisely what is being resisted by the have supported a two-state solution one another — even that proposal of Hamas as something which is really large numbers and they’re being ar- Israeli government. Most of the — de facto in Hamas’s case, but this the Geneva initiative, made during NT: From the White House, I do not distinct from other Palestinian enti- rested in large numbers today. That peace processes that we have seen is the consensus position among the Second Intifada, isn’t happen- see any possibility of real pressure ties would not be a good thing to do. is something that occurred during are mechanisms for postponing any Palestinians. Now, it’s important to ing. There’s no two-state solution that would result in a true change to Because there is already an attempt the First Intifada. At the beginning kind of permanent settlement of the note that the Palestinian support for happening. Everyone recognises the status quo. From the liberal or to separate the West Bank Palesti- of the Second Intifada, when what issue. So, that’s why there is a dead a two-state solution does not derive that this is the case. progressive wing of the Democratic nians and the Palestinians of the Ga- Israel calls “the October events” end to the peace process, because from a vision of what would be most It would take power that the Pal- Party, I see a long-term possibility of za Strip. Some people even talked took place, 13 Palestinian citizens of it’s not driving us anywhere towards just or most desirable. At the start of estinians currently do not have in change. If we’re talking about the about three states. This time, the A.K. Israel were killed in protests. So, any acceptable solution. the Zionist movement, at the end of order to really bring about any solu- present Congress, look at the very Palestinian identity is being assert- Ramakrishnan there is a precedent for this. But it The two-state solution has been the 19th century, the Jews in Pales- tion. So, the situation we’re looking simple Bill that doesn’t change U.S. ed in a big manner. Therefore, I is a professor of did feel different from the escala- the internationally accepted solu- tine made up about 3% of the popu- at now is a continuation of what the aid to Israel, but simply calls for the would view the kind of ideological international tions of the last decade or so. It sent tion to the problem. But there have lation in 1882 and Palestinians were human rights organisations have all U.S. to examine its role in a policy division between Fatah and Hamas, relations at the a clear message to the world and been practical impediments such as the remaining 97%. Over time, we deemed meets the definition of like the detention of Palestinian between various Palestinian organi- Centre for West much of the Israeli public that after increasing illegal Israeli settlements have seen the slow takeover of Pal- crime against humanity of apar- children. Even something as simple sations, as something that comes up Asian Studies, JNU, over 70 years of Israeli policy to in the occupied territories of the estine and the transformation of it theid. And really, any alternative to as that, which still isn’t touching aid, as part of what to do in a very dire New Delhi fragment the Palestinian people, West Bank and East Jerusalem. And into the land of Israel. Palestinians that is a utopia. which is the really big thing for De- condition of occupation. What kind treat them differently, and subject the very question of contiguous ter- wouldn’t come up with a solution mocrats, is not realistic in the pre- of strategy they have to adopt, or them to different rules and restric- ritory for the Palestinians to esta- that would give them a disconnect- So, what does Israel want? Does sent Congress and probably not in what kind of ideology the Palesti- tions, the Palestinian citizens of Is- blish an independent state of their ed state without true sovereignty it want to continue this system the next one either. So, it’s a very nians have to follow is up to them. rael and the Palestinian people at own is not available in a practical and a mere 22% of their homeland. of occupation forever? How long road. But the trends in the U.S. But this whole narrative of seeing large are one. sense, because under Israeli occu- The two-state solution is based on long will it be able to do it? do seem to suggest that that consti- the Palestinians as being divided... This is an enormous challenge to pation, there has been change in the Israel’s occupation of the West Bank tuency is going to grow. And some they may have differences, but I the existing paradigm of the interna- geography of the Palestinian territo- and Gaza in the 1967 War, but the AKR: The Israeli government wants of the people who are behind it are think on the basic question of liber- tional community, the two-state so- ries over decades. So, practical pro- Palestine Liberation Organization not only the status quo of its occu- among the most popular politicians ating Palestine, the question of an Scan the QR code to lution. Most of the world has treated blems regarding the two-state solu- (PLO) was founded before the 1967 pation and its colonial policies to in America, like Alexandria Ocasio- independent Palestinian state, the listen to the full the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as tion exist, particularly the status of War, the conflict factor was founded continue, but also expand its con- Cortez. So, it is possible that we will Palestinians are united, and that is interview online though it’s more or less a dispute ov- Jerusalem and the future of Palesti- before the 1967 War, the project of trol and annex more territories that reach a point in the distant future at the core of the Palestine question.