|" Oa I ,,HABEMUs I PaPAM,, Pclrurrprctr-Elrcrrr)NS FROr\,r S'r. PergR T() Bnrurorcr XVI Interviewwith AmbrogioM. Piazzonr "ALTItoUcHTIIATNUMBERIsINAccoRDANcEwITHTHETMDnoNALCoLJNTTIc.INnoTcoNFIRMTTIAT BuvrorrXVlsrur26SrHpopEBEcAUsE,EspEcHLryrNTHEEARryMnorrAcEwEDoNorALwAys KNowwHo wAs popE AND wHo wlsl'r DuruncrHr tlsr 50yEms oR so rN THE ANNITARIo Potmnuo, THEomclAr Ymnnooxor nn HorvSur, tHw HrvEsroppED NT.JMBERTNc rHEpApActEs"

f By Lucy Gonoer Now beforemy eyeswas a letterdated July 5,1294, on parch- ment,from the I I cardinalspresent at the two-yearconclave T-]for scholarsand for culture writers like myself, one (including BonifaceVIII) notifying the reclusivemonk, H of the greatestprofessional joys is uncoveringand CelestineV of his electionas Pope. [n a caseopposite was I connectingunexpected fragments of the puzzle a three-parthistorical account entitled OpusMetricum of called "history." So it isn't difficult to imaginemy awe thepapacies of CelestineV andBoniface VItr, by Cardinal recenfly in the presenceof three documentsconcerning JacopoStefaneschi, a supporterof Boniface and patron of the resignationof PopeCelestine V and the electionof Giotto.Written between1315-19, the fust partconcerns the PopeBoniface VIII in the splendidexhibition "'Habernus papacyof CelestineV from his electionto his resignation; Papam': Pontifical Electionsfrom St. Peter to Benedict the second(on displayseparately later in the sectioncalled WI," on in the LateranPalace until April 9. In my article "Coronations")is opento a miniatureof BonifaceVIII's "Jacoponeda Todi: A Lrgendary Franciscan"(Inside the coronationand concernsBoniface's election and corona- Vatican,February zCff.) I had mentionedthat, after the tion; and the third concernsCelestine V's lateryears and resignationof CelestineV, Jacoponewas imprisoned by his canonization. PopeBoniface VIII for protestingagainst his election. Displayedin chronologicalorder, the oldestitems on

INSIDETHEVATICAN Mafch 2OO7 exhibit are: (1) sarcophagi,sculpted with Christ as rhe "Good lated into Polish and Spanish,you thank four people:Jorge Shepherd"surrounded by his disciples;(2) samplesof glassware Cardinal Mejfa, the librarian of the Holy Roman Church, like thosein "PetrosEni" with gildedimages of St. Peterand St. who has since retired; Don RaefaelleFarina, prefect of the Paul,all from the 4th century(the mostrecent is a magnificent Vatican Library and recently createdbishop of Oderzo; Dr. crucifix with an aquamarineworn by PopeJohn Paul II whenhe PaofoVian, the library's ScriptorLatinus, and Diego Manet- openedthe Holy Doorsto inaugurateJubilee 2000); and (3) one ti of Piemme.Was one of them your rnentor? If not, who of the two "Fisherman'sRings" made by the jewelerClaudio was? Franchiand presentedto BenedictXVI on April 25,2005, PtezzoNr:I owe a lot to eachof them,but my first inspira- togetherwith its gold-platedcasket. tions were ProfessorManzelli, Professor Gustavo Vinay who The splendidcatalogue (30 euros)published by De LucaEdi- taughtme medievalLatin literature,and ProfessorClaudio tori D'Arte openswith an essayentitled "k elezionipontificie Leonardi,professor of medievalliterature at the Universityof da SanPietro al Quattrocento"by AmbrogioPiazzoni, vice-pre- Florence. fect of the VaticanLibrary, medieval historian, and professor of How did you cometo love the study of history? manuscriptcataloguing at the PIRzzoNt:I can't imaginenot Universityof Viterboand of Latin loving history.You can't under- Paleographyat the Augustini- standyourself unless you tracethe anum.Heis authorof Storiadelle storyof your life and of your Elezioni Pontificie (History of roots.You can't understandcur- PapalEle ctions), 2003. rent eventsunless you tracetheir On January16 in his office, past and understandhow one Piazzonidiscussed his fascination event led to anotherto form the with Churchhistory, particularly presentstate of affairs.To under- papalelections. standwhat's before you, you have to lookbehind you. To live well in Can you tell us about your the present,you needan "histon- formation and studies? cal mentality."By that I meana AN4enocloPrezzoNr: One of critical,analytical capacity ro six children,I was born near arriveat whatreally happened and Varese(Italy) in 1951,but came why.You can't ignorethe past. to Romeas a teenager.I graduat- The most importantthing ed with honorsin philosophy aboutstudying history is learning from the Universityof Rome.I how to interpret historical ' wrote my thesison TheRelation- sources.A historianhas to dig out ship BetweenSt. Bernard of thesubstance in a source,not take Clainaux and Peter the Venera- for grantedthat everything wntten ble of Clury in Burgundy.They there is the truth, but rathercon- weretwo contemporary12th-cen- sider the event from several tury Benedictineabbots who had sourcesand differentpoints-of- differentopinions on how to view. interpretThe Rule of St.Benedict Why did you focus on and so disagreedon how monks Church history and especially shouldbehave. on papal elections? Immediatelyfollowing uni- PInzzoNI:My passionfor versity,I took the coursein diplo- Churchhistory goes back to grade matic and archivalpaleography offered here at the Vatican's school.In secondor third gradeI decidedto write a biography SecretArchives. My intentionswere to stayon at the University of St.Ambrose because my nameis Ambrogio,or Ambrosein of Romeas a professorof medievalhistory. I'd just becomean English.I rememberthat my openingsentence was something assistantprofessor when my headprofessor, the medievalist like, "Underthe EmperorConstantine, practicing Christianity RaulManzelli, suddenly died, an eventwhich changed my life. went from beingillegal to legal."Next to the word Constantine So you took a position at the Vatican? I wrote my very first footnote:"Constantine was an important PrnzzoNr:ln 1976the newdirector of the Vaticanpublishing Romanemperor." housewas looking for a younghistorian who spokeseveral lan- Our readers would be interested to know a few quick guagesand knew somethingabout theology. I speakEnglish, facts about papal elections.What was the longestsede French,and German and my universitydegree fulfilled the other vacante,orperiod without a Pope,between one Pope'sdeath requirements.So I movedto the VaticanLibrary in 1985.In and the electionof his successor?What were the longestand 1998I becamethe Scriptor Latinus and a yearlater the library's shortestconclaves? The longestand shortestpapacies? frrst lay vice-prefect. Prlzzor.n:At the end of the fifth edition of Storie delle In the introduction to your fascinatingbook,The History ElezioniPontificie I've addedan appendixof curiositiesabout the of Papal Elections,now in its fifth Italian edition and trans- papalelections. The longestsede vacante took placein Viterbo.

MArCh2OO7 INSIDETHE VATICAN Oa !Bc-lt-} KS,,4({Raphael. It last- papacy(whether you countit from when ed only a few hours. Christ told him that he would be the Fifty Popeshave been elected in Vati- keystoneof his Church or from when can City, another 34 in Rome, and sever- Peterarrived in Rome)nor of his death. al have been elected elsewherein ltaly, So, if not St. Peterhimself, counting some even outside ltaly. Can you tell us from perhaps30 to 67 AD, or 37 years, something about the location of papal the longestpapacy is most likely Pius elections? IX's from 1846to 1878:31 years,7 Ptrzzotu:Pope John Paul II establisheda months,and?I days.The next longest rule that from now on the Popesmust wasJohn Paul II's: 26 yeus,5 months, alwaysbe electedin the SistineChapel (in and 2l days.The shortest,33 days, at the Vatican).He was electedthere, and so leastin moderntimes, is JohnPaul I's. were24of his predecessors.Ten others were Papal electionsare supposedto be electedin the CapellaPaolina, or Pauline held in secret and without influence Chapel,and the remaining 16 in other from the outside. But is there ever chapelsand rooms inthe Pahuo Apostolica. outside interference during con- Papalelections elsewhere in Rometook claves? placein the QuirinalPalace, in St. JohnLar Pnzzotu: The most shockingaspect eran,in SantaMaria SopraMinerva, in the of conclavehistory is that for several Septizonium,in SantaCecilia, in St. Mary centuries- during the 1500s,1600s, Major, in SanMartino, in St. Peterin and 1700s- it wascommon practice Chains,in SanClemente, in SantaMaria in for the royalty of Catholic Europe Pallara,in SanGregorio al Cielo,and in San (France,Spain, Germany, Austria) to Cesario. veto certaincandidates. These were Outsideof Rome, papal electionstook vetoes,not support.So kings and placefive timesinViterbo, Perugia, andAvi- emperorsdid not say who should be gnon, twice in Naples,and once each in electedPope, but ratherwho shouldnor Siena,Tenacina, Velletri, Verona,Ferrara, be elected.So a cardinalwas elected Pisa,Constance, Arezzo, Anagni, Lyons, Popeonly if no royal power had vetoed andVenice. his candidacy.This badly weakenedthe Before John Paul II and now Benedict powerof the papacy. XVI there were severalnon-Italian Popes. Earlier, in the l0th century,impor- Who were they and when did they reign? tant Romanfamilies, like the Qrescenzi PhzzoNI:The fust wasGelasius lin492. or Tuscoli, or the Germanemperors, He was from Africa. The others were: John imposedtheir candidateeven before the IV in 640 from Dalmatia,Theodore Iin642 conclave,although the Pope was then from Palestine,Gregory III in 731 from "elected" accordingto the canonical Syria,Zachary in 741from Greece,Victor II rules. in 1055from Germany,Hadrian IV in 1154 On occasion.the Romanmasses from England,John XXI in 1276from Por- protestedthe cardinals'choice, as in the tugal,Gregory XI in 1371from France, caseof CallistusIII (1455-58),for AlexanderYI in 1492from Spain,and example.

INSIDE THE VATICAN MATCh2OO7 On display in the "HabemusPapam" exhibit are several ;;;;,."--;;;;;;;;;;l diaries, kept by officials or cardinals during conclaves, such seenfrom his extensivewritings. I as Valeriani's (the pontifical master of ceremoniesfrom Othergreat papacies are thoseof GregoryVII, InnocentIII I 1738-78)from the 1769conclave which electedClement (now XIV. andPaul VI calledby some"The ForgottenPope" because i Where are the oflicial records of the conclaves popes, con- he was overshadowedin betweentwo other great John ! served?Are they available to scholars? XXIII andJohn Paul II). His activerole as oneof the two mas- I hRzzorr: The problemis that you cannotprevent a termindsof the SecondVatican Council, of modernizinsthe I cardinalfrom keeping a diary during the conclaveor Church,of carrying out the Council's recommendations-and I from broadcastinghis votepublicly, even if he'staken changesafter the deathof JohnXXI[, mustnot be forgotten. i a vow not to speakout. , In April 2005,prior to the last conclave,you spokeat ! The individualballots are eachburned so it's I one of our Vatican Forums about the history of papal ! impossibleto know afterwardswho voted for I electionsand the possiblenext Pope.We met again for- I whom, but the recordbooks reporting how il tuitously on the morning of April lg,Z0Li,when I came I many voteseach cardinal received and during il to the library to interview Don Farina (Insidethe Vati- | which vote are conserved.Their presentlocation frfl can, Jlly 2005).Where were you later that day at I dependson the conclave'sdate: in the archivesof ffi_ll 18:43 when Cardinal Medina Est6vez,the proto- i the pontificalmaster of ceremonies,in the Secret deaconof the Collegeof Cardinals,announced Archives,or in the Pope'sprivate archives. the election of Benedict XVI? How did You are a medieval historian. Is there a you hear the news? historical figure that particularly fascinates PIazzoNr:I was on the air at SAT you?Aconclave?APope 2000,the televisionsration and his papacy? of CEI (ConferenzaEpisco- PrnzzoNr:Peter Abelard, pale ltaliana,or the Italian the l2th-centuryFrench EpiscopalConference). We philosopher and theologian, were commentingon the particularly fascinatesme. conclave'sactivities to date, He wasone of the first mod- its progress,and its various ern minds.He couldthink possibleoutcomes. I saw the beyondthe conventionsand white smokeon the televi- constrictionsof histime. sionscreen in front of me. Concerning the con- You could say I was in the claves,there are somewe right placeat the right time. know very little about The first idea that cameto becauseonly a few docu- mindwas to explainwhy the mentshave come down to Holy Fatherhad chosen the us.About those, I'd like to nameBenedict XVI. know more.For example,I Do you have memories would like to know the of other papal elections? whole truth aboutthe elec- PIRzzoNr:I remember tion of GregoryVII. somethingabout each one A Popewho fascinates sincemy earlychildhood. I me is GregoryI or "The was in St. Peter'sSquare Great"(590-604), because he openedroads never opened before whenJohn Paul I and JohnPaul II wereelected in 1978.I in theWestern Church. He introducedthe title: Servusservorunl rememberPaul VI's electionin 1963and John XXIII's in 1958. dei ("Servantof the servantsof God") asthe Pope'smost impor- I was only sevenwhen John XXIII was elected,but my father tantqualification, that of beingbishop of Romeand servant of camefrom the smalltown Villa d'Adda,less than a mile from thefaithful. He understoodin a nutshellwhat the Church and the Sottoil Monte,where Roncalli was born. papacy shouldbe. The faithful shouldserve God and the pope Speakingof "Habemuspapam," who was the first Pope shouldserve those who believein God.The papacywas to be a proclaimed from the balcony of St. Peter's to the crowd in serviceto the faithful. the Square below? The film at the end of the exhibit states His life beforebecoming Pope is alsofascinating. He came that Pius XI (1922-1939)re-established the tradition. from a powerfulRoman family and held importait political PrazzoNr:I'm not surehow far back the balconytradition offrces,becoming the prefect of Romeat a very youngage. After goes- maybeto the first Popeelected after Maderno complet- GregoryI took his monasticvows and was more or lessforced edthe facade in 1614.So it mayhave been Gregory XV in 1621. to becomePope, he continuedto caredeeply aboutthe social PiusIX brokewith the tradirionof appearingon the balcony needsof theRomans and not only theRomans. The idea of mis- becauseRome becamethe capital of Italy and pius IX exiled sionarieswas his, and he sentSt. Augustine and others to Eng- himselfinside the Vaticanwalls, calling himself a "prisonerof land and NorthernEurope to convertthe populationsto Chrii_ Italy."When his successor,Leo XIII, waselected in 1878,with

March 2007 INSIDE THE VATICAN C)a t )L)( xxo ! )..ktL)glllfl just public I deep regret he decidednot to appearbefore the crowd in St. of the Nazis.We shouldn't go with the flow of opin- I Peter'sSquare because it was occupiedby Italy, an "enemy ion,jump on the bandwagonof what'sthe fashionableinterpre- state."So, insteadof appearingon the outsideof St. Peter's, tationof the moment. from an interiorbalcony he blessedthe crowdinside the Basili- From the point of view of an historian,I can makethe fol- ca. His immediatesuccessors, Pius X and BenedictXV did the lowingseveral observations in chronologicalorder. Pius XII was same.Everyone was takenby surprisedwhen Pius XI blessed a greatadmirer of Teutonic,German culture. He waspapal nun- the crowd in the Square. cio in Germanyfor many years.His electionwas applauded by You are a member of the organizing committee of the the English,Italian andleft-wing Frenchpress and highly criti- exhibit "Hahemus Papam)' Many of the objects here have cized by most Germannewspapers, including the Franlcfurter never been on public display before; is there a star Allgemeinekitung, which reportedthat, in spiteof his many object? yearsin Germany,Pius XII was unableto understand hnzzoNl: SinceI'm a medievalhistorian and the greatnessof the National SocialistMovement "codexologist,"my favoriteobjects are obvi- andthe rebirthof Germany. ously the manuscripts,in particularJacopo Second,it is a known fact that, due to his Stefaneschi'sDe coronatione.Take a look intervention,the Churchworldwide helped at this illumination.It's been eiven vari- savemore than700.000 Jews. No otherhead ous interpretations.You can seea miter of statesaved more. on the groundwhich would be Celestine Third, immediatelyafter the war, there V's. Thusthe illuminationprobably shows werea numberof testimonialspraising Pius XII the coronationof BonifaceVIII with Celestine for his help in savingJewish lives. Theseinclude V andhis retinuewalking off the page. the chief rabbi of Rome,Israel Zolli, who waited Anotherhighlight for me is the Fisherman's until after the war to convertto Christianity and Ring (the papalring). The most recentones, took the baptismalname Eugenio, after Pius XIL after being defaced,slashed, so they can no All the debateabout Pius XII andthe Holocaust longerbe usedas a seal,are conservedin the datesto 1963,five yearsafter his death,and stems archivesof the papalmaster of ceremonies.We from a Germanplay called TheDeputy, written by don't haveearlier ones because, after being Rolf Hochhuth,until then an unknownplaywright "broken,"they weremelted down andreused. - a brilliant brainwashof the Germanpeople's You have written one best-seller.Are you social conscience.Its thesiswas that the German writing another book? peoplewere basicallygood; only Hitler was evil. Prezzour:Yes, but it won't be a best-seller. Without Hitler and his evil influence,the Germans It's aboutthe manuscriptsthat are datedin the would neverhave done what they did. He argued VaticanLibrary. They oncebelonged to Queen that if only Pius XII would haveintervened more Christinaof Sweden.As you know,manuscripts forcefully, he could have stoppedHitler and pre- were handmade,unlike the volumespublished ventedthe Holocaust.The play wasa greatsuccess todaywith an ISBN numberand the dateof pub- and causedsuch a commotionthat now it's nearly lication. Only about5Vo of the manuscriptsin impossibleto mentionany otheraspect of Pius the VaticanLibrary are dated.Usually you find XII's life. the date at the end or if you know the first Thosewho defendPius XII say that, if he had owner'sidentity. We can date someof those beenmore forceful,he wouldn't havebeen able to undatedby comparingthe scriptsand the prove- stopthe persecutionof theJews, that he would only nance. haveaccelerated it andcaused more of themand of I also have a weekly TV programon SAT other minoritiesto die. Who can know?You can't 2000 called "L'anello del pescatore"or "The Fisherman's makehistory with ifs. What fascinatesme is thatduring the war, Ring." Eachepisode lasts seven minutes, about each Pope's life. immediatelyafterwards, and even at his death,no onecriticized Do you havea dream project? his actions.These attacks started later during the Cold War. PtnzzoNr:Yes, to write a history book for young people It's time to move on and look at his accomplishmentsand which will inspirea loveof history.Historiography develops and reexaminehis anti-racialspeeches which, thoughvery explicit sharpensone's ability for analysisof events,be theypast or pre- anddaring at the time, wereunfortunately ineffective in control- sent,to form one'sown ideasand not be influencedby hearsay. ling a madman'sfolly. Yet we mustn'tforget, in his last desper- Thesedays everything broadcast on TV or written in the news- ateaftempt to stopHitler, his phrase,probably ghost-written by paperis interpretedas the truth, but we historiansknow that's Montini: "Nothing is lost in peacetime,everything is lost during not true.We're trained to look at severalsources. war."O Which Pope has been the most misinterpreted by his con' temporaries or historians? Lucy Gordan is the culture and arts editor of Inside the Vat- PIezzoNt:Many havebeen misinterpreted,but the most ican. recentone is certainlyPius XII andall the debateabout whether he could haveprevented Holocaust if he had beenmore critical

INSIDE THE VATICAN MATCh2fi)7