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House of Lords Official Report Vol. 787 Tuesday No. 72 19 December 2017 PARLIAMENTARYDEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDEROFBUSINESS House of Lords: Lord Speaker’s Committee Report Motion to Take Note.....................................................................................................1965 Questions Energy: Domestic Tariffs ..............................................................................................2001 Smoking: Vaping ..........................................................................................................2003 Sexual Harassment .......................................................................................................2006 Homelessness: Temporary Accommodation.................................................................2008 Laser Misuse (Vehicles) Bill [HL] First Reading.................................................................................................................2010 Secure Tenancies (Victims of Domestic Abuse) Bill [HL] First Reading.................................................................................................................2010 House of Lords: Lord Speaker’s Committee Report Motion to Take Note (Continued) ................................................................................2011 Local Government Finance Settlement Statement......................................................................................................................2058 House of Lords: Lord Speaker’s Committee Report Motion to Take Note (Continued)................................................................................2070 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2017-12-19 The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2017, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1965 HoL: Lord Speaker’s Committee Report[19 DECEMBER 2017] HoL: Lord Speaker’s Committee Report 1966 House of Lords from the spotlight of legislative scrutiny in both Houses. Rather, it is to make progress in the areas where Tuesday 19 December 2017 widespread agreement can be reached, as quickly as possible. 11 am The first step was to analyse the options for ensuring Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Leeds. a turnover of Members sufficient to allow the membership to be rebalanced and refreshed within a cap. It is clear to us—the reasons are set out in the report—that fixed House of Lords: Lord Speaker’s terms are the only solution which will provide a steady Committee Report stream of vacancies in a way which is fair to all groups. Motion to Take Note Therefore a key pillar of our recommendations is that all new Members should serve a single, non-renewable 11.06 am fixed term of 15 years. They would be offered the Moved by Lord Burns peerage on that basis and would make an undertaking to retire after 15 years when joining the House. We do That this House takes note of the Report of the not envisage any Members going back on their word, Lord Speaker’s committee on the size of the House. but we have robust legal advice that the House has the powers to enforce the undertaking to retire. Lord Burns (CB): My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness the Leader of the House and all those who A second pillar is that appointments which became have made today’s debate possible so soon after the available would be allocated between the parties on publication of our report. I also recognise the contribution the basis of the most recent general election results. of my fellow committee members. It has been a great This would be calculated as a combination of each pleasure to work with them. We produced a unanimous party’s share of Commons seats and of the national report and the contributions of all members were very vote. Along with 15-year terms, this would mean that important. We were fortunate in having the support of the composition of the House at any point once we the talented Tom Wilson as clerk, together with his reach a steady state would give a 15-year picture of the team, and some experienced external advisers, who are political views of the country, as expressed in elections. listed in the report. Our calculations in the report show how the relative strength of the parties would have developed historically The committee has been greatly encouraged by the under our proposals. For recent years, they generally response of noble Lords to our proposals, and indeed mirror what happened in real life in broad terms—with from those outside the House. For their part, the the single crucial difference that it would have been Government have made it clear that they are interested within a cap of 600 Members. Election results would in finding out whether the committee’s conclusions of course not affect the Cross-Benchers. They would, command widespread support in the House. I hope as proposed by the great majority of your Lordships that today’s debate, involving almost 100 noble Lords, and others, make up a constant proportion of at least will serve that purpose and demonstrate that the proposals 20% of the House. have strong backing. Today, I will not repeat the details of the report. I now turn to the more immediate question of Many noble Lords have already heard me go through reducing the current membership to a reasonable level them—some more than once, I am afraid to say. in a way that is fair to all, which is what the committee Rather, first I will make a few general comments about called the transition. The weight of opinion supported key aspects of the committee’s approach and proposals. a membership of about 600, although our proposals Then I will tackle some of the questions and issues would work just as well with a higher or lower number, raised with us since publication. Later today—if it is within reason. In reducing the current membership of today—I will try to answer queries and concerns raised 824 to 600, there are two important but conflicting in the debate. priorities. The first is to make the reduction within a reasonable period. The second is to enable a continuing From the outset, the committee recognised that most flow of new appointments, so that the membership peoplewereunderstandablyfocusingonhowtoreducethe can be refreshed and rebalanced rather than stagnating. current number of Members of this House. By contrast, little thought had been given to how to stop the historic The committee came to the view that, until we were tendency of the House to increase in size. Whatever down to a membership of 600, the best compromise your views on the current or future size of the House, would be a system with half of the departures contributing such a trend is simply not sustainable. Accordingly, towards a reduction in the overall membership and the while looking at how to get numbers down, we also other half being allocated to new appointees. Once the focused on designing a system which would cap the target had been reached, each departure would lead to membership of the House for as long as it remains an one appointment. I emphasise that these figures apply appointed Chamber—we called this the “steady state”. in aggregate across the House, not within each party Throughout our discussions,the committee’soverriding group. I will touch on this later because there has been priority was pragmatism. We all know how difficult it some confusion. is to achieve any legislative reform of this House. We Appointments would be made in line with election set out to design a system which could be implemented results as I described earlier, so replacement rates would without legislation, but which could be formalised in vary between parties. The speed by which the target of statute in due course if the political will was there. 600 is reached depends on how rapidly existing Members I stress that the purpose is not to exempt our proposals leave the House. Weunderstand that no current Members 1967 HoL: Lord Speaker’s Committee Report[LORDS] HoL: Lord Speaker’s Committee Report 1968 [LORD BURNS] more appointment. We are satisfied that there is no can be forced to leave without legislation, so it will be realistic way of gaming this arrangement. A party that for the House as a whole to decide how quickly to overdelivers on retirements
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