525 Statement by Minister AGRAHAYANA 26,1913 (SAKA)Statement by Minister 526 Reported Scuffle on 11.12.91 between Arrest of Shnfndr^tOup&LkU3. & aJoumaSst and a police officer and the others si C^andSajhon16. li.91 Arrest of some tibetan girls in New Delhi on 15.12.91 comprised 17 women and one man. A police surety by 3.00 p.m. of 14th December, 1991. van was at the Chinese Embassy Gate and Thirdly, as regards the rest they were to be these "Hbetans were put on the vehicle. One released on furnishing a personal bond of girl, about 20 years’ old, suddenly jumped the amount of Rs. 5V000 and surety of Rs. off from the van and started running away 2000/-. The Supreme Court further passed shouting slogans. She was over-powered orders thatthe persons released would abide and again put back into the vehicle. Since by law and would not commit breach of the the body of the vehicle was filled with the peace or violate orders under section 144 of Tibetans and policeman, including two lady the code of Criminal Procedure. The Delhi Constables, this girt was put in the driver's Police have reported that all the arrested cabin alongwith a Sub-Inspector of Po&ce persons have been released in accordance and a Constable. They were thetLtaken to with the dfrections of the Supreme Court the Chankaya-puri Police Statioflfevhich is about 200 meters away. The Tfcetans were violent and were shouting slogans. When the van was going to enter the police station, 16.32/1/2 hra. the girt in front pulled at the driver’s hand on the steering wheel, saying "why are you (ii) The arrest of Shri Inderfit Gupta, MP taking us to the Poitce Station.” The driver and other at Chandigarh on 16.12.91. lost control of the steering wheel and the van hit the pavement and, though it was travel­ THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS ling slowly, over-turned. As a result 11 (SHRI S.B.CHAVAN): I wish to apprise the persons sustained minor injuries, including Hon*ble Members of this august House 7 Tibetans girls. These 11 persons were about the arrest of Shri Indevjit Gupta, MP taken to the Ram Manohar Lohia Hospital and others on 16.12.91 in Chandigarh, for and all were discharged after first aid. The defying prohibitory orders. Tibetan boy also accompanied the 7 injured girls. The remianing injured 10 Hbetans girls 2. Information had been received by the were bro brought to the Chankaya puri Po­ Chandigarh Police that the Communist Party lice Station and detained under section 65 of of would take out a procession to the Delhi Police Act which empowers police Punjab Raj Bhavan and would organise a to detain persons disobeying lawful orders. dhama in front of the Raj Bhavan on These girls were brought to the Police 16.12.1991. The organisers were informed Station at 3.05 p.m and released at 4.30 about the resttictions under section 144 p.m. In view of the large deployment of the Cr.P.C. in force in the Union Territory and force aH over the city and the limited number that no procession was allowed to cross to of women police personnel available, only 2 the North of Madhya Marg. women police officials could be deployed in front of the Chinese Embassy. The Delhi 3. However, a procession of about 200 Poitce have reported that none of the girls persons including about 10 ladies started has given any written complaint that the from House No. 345, Sector 21 and reached police misbehaved with them. at 11.45 A.M. the crossing of Sectors 7,8,18 and 19. The processionists were stopped by 5 .1 would also like to inform the House the Police. By this time Shri Inderjit Gupta, that the Supreme Court passed directions MP also arrived. They were informed that on December 13,1991 that al women and some of them could meet the Governor of children below the age of 18years should be Punjab with whom an appointment had released by 10.00 p.m. of 13th December, been fixed at 12.30 P.M. The processionists 1991 without personal bond or surety. Sec­ insisted on proceeding to Raj Bhavan. The ondly, of the remaining detained persons, processionists remained adament and all of some of them were to be released only on a sudden broke the physical barricades and 527 Statement by Minister DECEMBER 17,1991 and others at 528 Arrest of Shri , MP, Chandigarh on 16.12.91

[Sh. S.B. Chavan] SHRI BHOGENDRA JHA (Madhubani) : There is no mention of it in the BuHetin, Sir. 4. The procession then came to the road dividing Sectors 7 and 8. Here the police SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE: formed a human barrier and tried to stop the Had it been mentioned, it would have come procession. They however broke through in the Bulletin, Part-li (Interruptions). the police human barrier. MR. CHAIRMAN: When a Statement is 5. The police again formed a human made, the convention in the House is not to cordon at a distance of about 15 yards away. ask any clarification, like the other House, At this third barricade when the procession­ the upper House. ists tried to go ahead, they were physically stopped. Here the demonstrators sat down. SHRI BHOGENDRA JHA: From the They were requested to disperse and send a Chair, we want to know whether it is men­ deputation to meet the Governor of Punjab. tioned in the Bulletin. The processionists insisted that they should all be allowed to go to the Raj Bhavan or [Translation] should be arrested by the police. (Interruptions) 6. At 1.20 P.M. when all attempts to persuade the processionists failed, Shri SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES Indetjh Gupta, M.P. and others were ar­ (Muzzffarpur): Even if it is a wrong state­ rested under Section 107/151 Cr. P.C. and ment? taken to Police Station at Sector 17. The leaders and ladies were taken in gypsies and SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA (South jeeps while others were taken in trucks and Delhi): Yesterday when I referred to the buses. They were produced before a Magis­ arrest of some ilbetans, the hon.Minister trate in the Police Station itself, who dis­ said that he is verifying the version of the charged them at 1.45 P.M. Police. I cannot believe because he is giving the version of the Police in the statement. He 7. The Chandigarh Administration have should say that he has verified the state­ stated that the only force used by the police ment was when the processionists were stopped physically by the police, who had formed SHRI BHOGENDRA JHA: Shri Indrajit human barriers. Gupta was arrested in Chandigarh, let us first discuss it SHRIMATI (Panskura): Sir, Indrajit Guptaji said this MR. CHAR MAN: First statement was morning that Vimla Dang was seriously lathi on the arrest of some Tbetans. charged. So, your information is really misin­ formation. SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: Mr. Chairman, Sir, My ambission is regarding SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE both the matters. Yesterday when we de­ (Dumdum): There is no mention of his arrest manded a statement regarding arrest of some in the BuHetin. Tbetans the hon. Home Minister said that it seems that the version of the Police is not SHRI (Bankura): correct and I would make a statement after Sir, I would lice to know whether the informa­ verifying it. I would Rke to know... tion was given to the hon. Speaker. (Inter­ ruption^) . I want to know whetherthe Speaker MR. CHAIRMAN: Please listen. There was informed of the arrest of the Member of is no convention for seeking clarification on Parliament, Shri Indrajit Gupta. the statement made by the Minister. 529 Statement by Minister AGRAHAYANA 26,1913 ( SAKA) and others at 530 Arrest of Shri Indraft Gupta, MP, Chandigarh on 16.12.91 (Interruptions) been informed. Further the hon. Home Min­ ister will tell that whether he has got the SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: Mr. information or not. If such an information Chairman, Sir, today he has again said that would have been received , it would have the statement has been given according to been mentioned in the Bulletin. It is not in the the version of Delhi Police. (Interruptions). Bulletin. Hon. Speaker has not been sup­ plied with any information as to which au­ MR. CHAIRMAN: All the statements thority arrested the hon. Member. Whether given here are from the Home Minister. it was Chandigarh Administration, Punjab Police or Punjab Administration. If no infor­ SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: Mr. mation is given after arresting an M.P., it Chairman, Sir, in the light of what he said become a matter of breach of privilege. yesterday, I would like to say one thing through you....(Interruptions). I would like to ask two points from the hon. Minister. One, whether they hadveri- [English] fied it or not, Secondly, the House was not informed after the M.P. was arrested . So, MR. CHAIRMAN: Whatever statement whether it is a matter of priviiedges or not? he has made, he owns the responsibility. These are my two questions, please expiain..(lnterruptions). (Interruptions) [English] [Translation] THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: Sir, I (SHRI S.B. CHAVAN): Sir, there is only one would like to know whether the facts put point on which I would like to make a clarifi­ forward in this House have been verified or cation. The Union Territory administration only the version of the Police will be coming had sent a telegram and a wireless message or after verifying the facts, the version of to the speaker yesterday at 2.00 p.m., about others will also come?The problem is that the arrest. the police have committed excesses. If the police have committed excesses who were [Translation] the people on the other side, who were the witnesses , has the other side also been verified. You are giving one-sided picture SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: Mr. only. Chairman, Sir, if the Home Minister has given the Statement of the police, I believe it Second point is also about Shri Indrajit is a wrong statement It was said here that he Gupta. A simple question is that an M.P. is will be released on bail after a security of Rs. arrested, as he has given the whole ac­ 5000/-, It was said by the police, but the count. When the time was fixed the Gover­ Supreme Court had suggested only Rs. 2 nor he could say that 5,6 or 7 people can thousand. Whatever information is given by meet, but he did not say so. They said that the police is wrong. A bond of Rs. 5000 and they arrested the M.P. under section 107 a security of Rs. 2000 is also wrong. This and 151. Only those who. people are ar­ morning, I was present in the Supreme rested under the section 107 and 151. in­ Court. According to the Statement given by dulge in riots and disturb peace. May I know the police there security was to be charged whether an M.P. can be arrested on the from only one person and it was also said charge of disturbing peace? The main thing that the situation is so trying that nobody is that whether the hon. Speaker has been should be let free, because all the people informed about It or not? That is the main have been arrested on the charge of vio­ thing. As far as I know Mr. Speaker has not lence. Magistrate has himself written in the 531 Statement by Minister DECEMBER 17.1991 andotheisat 532 Anest of Shri Indraft Gupta. MP, Chandigarh on 16.12.91 [Sh. George Fernandes] there at that time, it is a basic question which was asked yesterday. What w i be the case of a person who has been released on explanation given by the Home Mnister in paying a security of Rs. 2000. this mailer, so that in future we would go there cautiosualy, because in future, there is [EngSsh\ the question of Punjab and everybody is infavour of elections. We do not know what You looked very arrogant and therefore will be the attitude towards MPs during the you must pay a security of Rs. 2,000. elections. So it is a horrible thing.

[Transfetibnj Mr. Chairman, the situation is danger­ ous lor future and the present and regarding AM the other persons were released the arrest made yesterday, it is not dearfrom without any security, personal bond or any the staMnent that Shri Indrajit Gupta had conditions. There also you have been misin­ refused to meet the Governor. Please make formed about everything in this regard. The it dear how can it be called a cognizable treatment that these girts received is re­ offence. corded in the affidavits lying with us. We possess the statementsgrven by them. None Now a days the problem of Tibet is there of them was an adult woman, instead all of and the people of Tfoet are our guests. them were school or college going giris, we Whatever is its reason, we do not want to go have the affidavits containing their state­ into the details, but it is an internal matter of ments. How can the pofice record the state­ Tfoet arvd China, we should consider it as an ment of the girls regarding the misbehaviour autonomous region. But the people of Ttoet with them by the pofioe. There was not a who have been here are our guests and it is single policeman. Pofice is teffing a fie and our duty to extend all the possible hospitality trying to give a false statement here through to them. Ail the same, it is their duty not to the Home Mnister. Mr. Speaker. Sir, we work in such a manner which may spoil our highly object to this. relations with any other country. They should not come in the way of improving our rela­ SHRI BHOGENDRA JHA: Mr. Chair­ tions with other countries. It does not apply to man, Sir, just now the Home Mnister said them alone, it is equafly important for other that a notice has been received from the oountriesasweB.it is the duty of any Indian Administration of Chandigarh, i the notice who lives abroad. The people who did it or has been received by the Speaker, its infor­ who were a party to such developments is in mation should have gone to the members'll Any opinion a misuse of our hospitality. The today’s Buletin. We do not know anything way the Home Minister has given the state­ about it, nor does the Home MMster, but its ment that by holding the stearing by the notice should be* given to the House. Sec­ driver the vehicle has been toppled and an ondly, there is the question of arrest under accident has oocured, we should be happy section 151 and converting it irtio a cogni­ that at least no body is killed but after the zable offence and preventing iL Indrajit Gupta vehicle was overturned it hardly makes any is already an MP and he is here for the difference whether there were more girls or Seventh time, may I know which cognizable more women. It is of no significance. The offence he was going to commit for which he number of Women Police should have been has been arrested, so that all of us remain more. If this information is not received, I wil cautious in the sense that i we go some­ say that our Police force is useless, they had where «spedaly in a Union Territory, We w l to keep an information as to how many go there already prepared to be arrested. V women or gilt students are taking part in a the time of mooting the Governor is fixed and procession, because the news was in the X we go t e n at that time and there is a papers also that some people from Ttoet demonstration ora procession we wil not go would be holding a demonstration against 533 Statement by Minister AGRAHAYANA 26,1913 {SAKA) and others at 534 Arrestct Shri Indraft Gupta, MP, Chandigarh on 16.12.91 us. So demonstration, overturning of buses, MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, as holding the steering are not ordinary things. we all know, in this House it is not the If the girl students also participated in the convention to further discuss any statement demonstration there should have been prior made here orseekdarffication like the Upper arrangement of women Reserve Pofice force. House. Therefore, I am unable to ask the It is also a personal matter of the hon. Home hon. Home Minister to clarify all those points Minister, even if it is concerning Delhi it wifl which you have raised here now. be seen later on when there wBI be Defti State Government So these two things may (Interruptions) be made dear here. But this House should express its concern about it that Tbetans are MR. CHAIRMAN: I am on my legs. Let our guests and they should not come in the me complete it Please help me. After all, if way of improving relations with any country. you want to find out any darification, there In fact nobody should do so. are other methods. You can give appropriate notice for discussion. [English) All of you can meet the Speaker. You SHRI NIRMAL KANT1 CHATTERJEE can find out some time for a discussion. That (Dumdum): Sir, the important point that strikes is a separate matter. As far as the existing me on this issue is that it is the dvi service rules are concerned, I am not in a position to or the police service which is guiding the give you permission to seek daifications. political enthusiasts. What is doing tremen­ Neither, can I teH the Home Minister to give dous damage to the pofitica! system is the darifiactbns. That is the point political part of the executive is totally de­ pendent on the versions suppfied by the (Interruptions) pofice and the audacity is such that when a Member of Parliament has been arrested, SHRI that has been not reported. I wil take it, not (Bolpur): Sir, may I seek an information reported to the Hon. Speaker. though not a darification? (Interruption^).

[Translation] The truth of it is that the Bulletin did not report it ft cannot be a failure on the part of SHRI BHOGNEDRA JHA: Mr. Chair­ the Secretary General. So, what I am trying man, Sir, You are right, if the Home Minister to impress upon the Government about it is, is not in a position to reply, you should not we have seen this today afi over the country compel him. And if he is in a position to reply it is the police version which is emerging at he should do so or say that he can’t reply. the top. The political authority of the people efther befieves it or extends support to it as SHRI S.B. CHAVAN: I have given you has happened in the case of Tripura or in all the information that I have received from Kerala or elsewhere etso....(lntemjptions) there. We tried to distinguish it Dr. DebiProsadPal seldom fives in Otherwise he wfll know it Unless the poliical authority can (iInterruptions) estabfish is suoermacy over the Civi Serv­ ice and the Police Service etc. then not only [EngSsty externally the 1IF but intemaly also-the whole system would be ruined.lt is to these SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Mr. aspects that I want to draw the attention of Home Minister, You assured the House the hon. Home Minister. yesterday that you would make a statement on the Palakkad incident When are you Thank You, going to make that Statement? 535 Statement by Minister DECEMBER 17.1991 and others at 5 3 6 Arrest of Shri Indrajit Gupta. MP, Chandigarh on 16.12.91 SHRI S.B. CHAV AN: As soon as I get Spedker’sChambertMtodaymoming.Thera- the information, I will do it. fore, there is a lot of lapse in this regard.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: MR. CHAIRMAN: ft is a very serious Please send them a reminder. Sir, this is not matter. a clarification. This is a sort of information. That is all .{Interruptions). (Interruptions) [Translation] MR. CHAIRMAN: Secondly, with re­ gard to the arrest of hon. Shri Indrajit Gupta, SHRI CHANDRA JEET YADAV(Azam I think the Speaker has received the tele­ garh): Mr. Chairman, perhaps it is the state­ gram at 0 9 0* Clock today. The sender's ment of the Home Minister in which he has name and designation was not so clear. We said that indrajit Gupta did not join that received it at 9 A.M. today. As I said, the incident of voiiating the law. The statement sender's name or the designation was not of the Home Minister proves that Indrajit “clear. Gupta arrived on that spot when the demon­ strators were stopped and he moved away (Interruptions) from there. Indrajit Gupta is a senior Member of the House and you have spoken about his MR. CHAV3MAN: Let me tell you what­ arrest so lightly. You even do not know about ever information is available. At 9 O’ Clock, the officer who gave this news. The Secre­ this Secretariat received the telegram. The tariat should issue instructions that when­ sender's name and the designation was not ever any M.P. is arrested, ft is expected that dear. Therefore, we have not informed the the concerned officer, whoso ever he may Members. That was the position. be should inform that under which circum­ stances that MP has been arrested. He was SHRI NIRMAL KANT1 CHATTERJEE arrested in Chandigarh, the state capital. (Dum Dum): Is there not enough ground for This may not be taken so lightly, such things dismissal of the persons concerned? are happening that any officer is giving a notice and his name and designation is not (Interruptions) given out, it is sent at one or two O'Clock and the information is received the next day at 9 SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Midnapore): O' dock, and but even then this is being The incident took place at 12.30 p.m. yester­ taken lightly. Such things should not happen day. They sent the information of my arrest in future, this direction should be issued from at 9 O' Clock this mom\ng.(lnterruptions). the Secretariat and it should also be issued from the Home Ministry that if an MP is MR. CHAIRMAN: In this Secretariat, arrested, or if there is any officer, he should we have received it at 9 A. M. today, the 17th give reasons about the circumstances under December. 1991. which he was arrested. It is not evident from your statementthat Indrajit Guptarefused to SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: What move away from there or he violated the law is the time of despatch? and sat there. You say that the demonstra­ tors refused to go. At least the complete MR. CHAIRMAN: About the time of information should be received. Indrajit Gupta despatch, I am not in a position to tel you. I had also raised this question yesterday. think it is 1.20 p.m. [Engish] SHRI SOBHANADREESWARA RAO VADOE

MR. CHAIRMAN: It is a case of breach SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOUDHARY of peace. This rule is applied in case of those (Katwa): It si not amy that but somo technical who go there. flaws have also taken place. Given the kind of a situation that is there in Punjab and the [English] kind of role the CPI, CPI(M), BJP and some others have played, in that context, the . SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA(Bankura): administration had failed to properly deal Sir, the Home Minister can respnd to the with the people who are laying down the lives points raised here. in Punjab. Are they not to be reprimanded? Are they people doing service to the country MR. CHAIRMAN: He has already re- in Punjab? sponded.

I am very sorry. The Home Minister is here. He must take to task whoever is re- sponsible. The Governor is not at all doing 17.00hrs any good service in dealing in such repre- hensible manner with such respected people DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193 who followers are laying down the lives. It is not a matter of technical delay. It is a ques- Present economic situation in the coun- tion of outlook. They are thoroughly bank- try with reference to the steep rise in rupt people and they are not fit to run the prices of essential commodities in recent administration in this critical situation. months,deficlt financing, the foreign exchange crisis and the conditionalities . MR. CHAIRMAN: As I mentioned to sought to be imposed by the Interna- you, the sender's name is not there but some tional monetary fund-CON TO. initials and numbers are there. I think it is but proper that the Home Ministry should direct MR. CHAIRMAN: The House shall now all the concerned that whenever Members of take up further discussion under Rule 193 on Parliament are taken into custody, when the economic situation in the country. Dr. they send the telegrams either it the Speaker was on his legs; he will ortothe Central Government, they must give continue. their designation to also. The charges have already been mentioned in the telegram but DR. DEal PROSAD PAL (Calcutta North we cannot make out as to who has sent it. West): Mr. Chairman, Sir, when we are dis- Therefore, it would be proper, in future, if any cussioning the economic situation for the Member of Parliament is taken under cus- year 1991 the economic scenario has