Benedictine Hearings 7 December 2017 (+44)207 4041400 London

IICSA - Benedictine Hearings 7 December 2017 1 Thursday, 7 December 2017 1 Q. When did you first encounter Father Nicholas? 2 (10.00 am) 2 A. He was a geography teacher at Plunkett, and I had been 3 THE CHAIR: Ms Karmy-Jones, good morning. 3 warned by the other boys in my year, "Oh, he's really 4 MS KARMY-JONES: Good morning. Thank you, chair. 4 strict. Keep your head down", so I think I did, and 5 The first witness this morning is A221, which should 5 this man came in and taught geography, and I think 6 be in the relevant bundle, volume 22, behind your tab 1. 6 I kept my head down, he was fairly strict, quite severe, 7 WITNESS A221 (affirmed) 7 and I remember one afternoon, I was in the classroom, 8 Examination by MS KARMY-JONES 8 the form classroom. I think I was catching up on some 9 MS KARMY-JONES: You attended Downside School as a child; is 9 work, which sounds very unlike me, but I was in there, 10 that right? 10 and suddenly he came in and was terribly kind and 11 A. That is right, yes. 11 very -- I think he asked me to -- he said -- I think he 12 Q. I think you attended one of the prep houses -- 12 asked me to sit on his knee. He said, "Are you all 13 A. Yes. 13 right?" 14 Q. -- between 1986 and 1988? 14 It felt wonderful, actually. I think we went for 15 A. Mmm-hmm. 15 a walk. On a number of occasions pretty regularly after 16 Q. And then went on into the senior school? 16 that, we would go for walks together. 17 A. That's right. 17 Q. Where would you go? 18 Q. You stayed at Downside until 1993? 18 A. We would go to the monastery gardens, which I knew to be 19 A. Mmm-hmm. 19 out of bounds to pupils, so it felt very special; I was 20 Q. How old were you when you first went? 20 being taken into the inner sanctum of this strange place 21 A. I was 11 years old, entering Plunkett House, which was 21 that I'd ended up in. 22 the prep school part of Downside. Yes, 11 years old. 22 Then he produced a camera one day and said, "Do you 23 Q. Did your family have any association with Downside? 23 mind if I take some photographs?", and I distinctly 24 A. My father had been to Downside and my maternal 24 remember sitting on a gate, being asked to sit on 25 grandfather had also been to Downside. So it was always 25 a gate, while he took photographs. Page 1 Page 3 1 the plan that I would attend. 1 The experience of this was to feel very nurtured. 2 Q. Had the plan initially been that you would go when you 2 I was looking -- I was without what I would say would be 3 were 13, but due to events we don't need to deal with, 3 a robust father figure, and into this chasm appeared 4 you went two years early? 4 someone incredibly kind and gentle. 5 A. I went two years earlier than originally intended. 5 Q. How did things progress after that? 6 Q. Would it be fair to say that the reason for that was 6 A. One day, Father Nicholas asked me if I wanted to go with 7 there was a hope that you would be provided with some 7 him to the monastery library, which again was another 8 stability in life? 8 inner sanctum, it felt like another layer, it was very 9 A. Yes. I mean, without going into any detail, there were 9 much out of bounds to pupils. I think he said there 10 a series of unfortunate events in my family life, 10 were some fascinating old maps of where my family come 11 bereavement, and it was felt that sending me to Downside 11 from, "Wouldn't you be interested in that?" Now, 12 was going to be a safe space for me to gather myself 12 I couldn't think of anything less interesting than 13 together. 13 looking at maps, but nonetheless I said, "Yes, sure". 14 Q. So when you arrived as that 11-year-old boy, what were 14 This was my friend. 15 you like? 15 So in we went, and it is quite a labyrinth, and 16 A. I was greatly looking forward to it until the moment 16 I seem to remember we found ourselves at a certain part 17 I walked through the door, and then the shock -- I was 17 of the library, and I think he said, "Well, here we 18 desperately homesick. I think I'd had an image in my 18 are", and then suddenly we seemed to go around in 19 mind of what the place was going to be like, but then it 19 a circle and go to somewhere else and then come back. 20 was vast, it was out in the country -- I lived in 20 I think we did that a couple of times. 21 London -- and I cried and cried and cried and cried. It 21 So I got the sense that he was -- there was 22 was an utterly horrible experience. 22 something odd going on, and then I remember -- and then 23 Also, I had gone a year later than all the other 23 at one point, suddenly my flies were undone, the top of 24 boys in my year, so everyone knew each other. So I was 24 my trousers, and I moved to do them up, and he gently 25 very much a fish out of water. That's what it felt. 25 brushed my hand away, "Oh, don't worry about that", and Page 2 Page 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) DTI www.DTIGlobal.com 8th Floor, 165 Fleet Street (+44)207 4041400 London EC4A 2DY IICSA - Benedictine Hearings 7 December 2017 1 I looked at him and his face had gone bright red and 1 A. Yes. When I went back to Plunkett, Father Nicholas was 2 there were beads of sweat appearing and there was this 2 no longer the geography teacher and I didn't see him for 3 sort of smile on his face. 3 the remainder of that time at Plunkett. I struggle -- 4 I remember looking down a corridor and seeing 4 I don't know what the date was, it was probably '87. 5 a door, an exit, and there was a split-second moment 5 Q. So you continued at Plunkett? 6 where I knew I could have -- I knew there was -- I could 6 A. I continued at Plunkett. 7 have run, and I didn't, and then I turned and found 7 Q. Are you able to say how long that period when you were 8 myself looking at the cover of some book. Then he put 8 in the junior school and were being abused by 9 his hands into my trousers, fondled my penis, and 9 Father Nicholas, about how long that lasted? 10 I could hear a rustling motion going on, which I don't 10 A. I'm pretty sure it was during the first of my two years 11 think I knew at the time was masturbation, and then it 11 at Plunkett, a few months, I would say, and I think 12 quickly finished and then he said something like, "You'd 12 there was a fair gap between the first experience of 13 better go now". So I found my own way out. 13 abuse and the second, and I remember the second time he 14 Q. What did you think? 14 said, "Shall we go to the library?", and I said, "Oh, 15 A. I remember very distinctly standing -- there's 15 no, no", and he said, "Oh, come on", he said, "Come on, 16 a particular lane quite close to where the library was. 16 it's all right. Oh, please do it. Come on, come on", 17 I think it is called Green Lane, but I couldn't be sure 17 and I think it happened fairly regularly after that. 18 about that. You actually have a view of the monastery 18 Q. Always in the library? 19 buildings. I remember knowing something profoundly 19 A. At that time, yes, always in the library. 20 wrong had just happened, and I was quite certain that, 20 Q. So you went back to Plunkett? 21 "I am going to go into that monastery building and I am 21 A. Back to Plunkett. 22 going to tell someone, because these are good, holy 22 Q. He wasn't there? 23 people", and then very quickly I had this sudden wave of 23 A. He wasn't there. And that mechanism that kicks in to 24 terror that I was making a tremendous mistake because 24 build a shell around that experience kicked in. 25 it's possible that I had been given an utterly sacred 25 I should probably say that the experience of abuse felt Page 5 Page 7 1 gift, only given to the special few, and if I went in 1 like another layer on top of a series of traumas that 2 there, these men would be desperately disappointed and 2 had already happened.

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