Second Session, 40th Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(HANSARD)

Th ursday, April 10, 2014 Morning Sitting Volume 10, Number 8

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 0709-1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC

Second Session, 40th Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL

Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing ...... Hon. Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education ...... Hon. Amrik Virk Minister of Agriculture ...... Hon. Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development ...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review ...... Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment ...... Hon. Minister of Finance ...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Steve Th omson Minister of Health ...... Hon. Dr. Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacifi c Strategy and Multiculturalism ...... Hon. Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour ...... Hon. Minister of State for Tourism and Small Business ...... Hon. Minister of Justice ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation...... Hon. Don McRae Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services ...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure ...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ...... Adrian Dix Deputy Speaker ...... Douglas Horne Assistant Deputy Speaker ...... Raj Chouhan Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Marc Dalton Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees ...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk ...... Roderick MacArthur, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ...... Gary Lenz ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING

Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Fraserview Abbotsford-Mission ...... Simon Gibson Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal)...... Penticton Abbotsford South ...... Darryl Plecas Austin, Robin (NDP) ...... Skeena Abbotsford West ...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Bains, Harry (NDP) ...... Surrey-Newton Alberni–Pacifi c Rim ...... Scott Fraser Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Boundary-Similkameen ...... Linda Larson Bennett, Hon. Bill (BC Liberal) ...... Kootenay East Burnaby–Deer Lake ...... Kathy Corrigan Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds ...... Raj Chouhan Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal) ...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Burnaby-Lougheed ...... Jane Jae Kyung Shin Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby North ...... Richard T. Lee Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Cariboo-Chilcotin ...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ...... Vancouver–West End Cariboo North ...... Hon. Coralee Oakes Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack ...... John Martin Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal) ...... Westside-Kelowna Chilliwack-Hope ...... Laurie Th roness Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal) ...... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Columbia River–Revelstoke ...... Norm Macdonald Conroy, Katrine (NDP) ...... Kootenay West ...... Hon. Don McRae Corrigan, Kathy (NDP) ...... Burnaby–Deer Lake Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ...... Douglas Horne Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal) ...... Maple Ridge–Mission Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Selina Robinson Darcy, Judy (NDP) ...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley ...... Bill Routley de Jong, Hon. Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford West Delta North ...... Scott Hamilton Dix, Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Delta South...... Vicki Huntington Donaldson, Doug (NDP) ...... Stikine Esquimalt–Royal Roads ...... Maurine Karagianis Eby, David (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Point Grey Fort Langley–Aldergrove ...... Hon. Rich Coleman Elmore, Mable (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kensington Fraser-Nicola...... Jackie Tegart Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...... Port Coquitlam Juan de Fuca ...... John Horgan Fassbender, Hon. Peter (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Fleetwood Kamloops–North Th ompson ...... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Fleming, Rob (NDP) ...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kamloops–South Th ompson ...... Hon. Todd Stone Foster, Eric (BC Liberal) ...... Vernon-Monashee Kelowna–Lake Country ...... Fraser, Scott (NDP) ...... Alberni–Pacifi c Rim Kelowna-Mission ...... Hon. Steve Th omson Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Kootenay East ...... Hon. Bill Bennett Hamilton, Scott (BC Liberal) ...... Delta North Kootenay West ...... Katrine Conroy Hammell, Sue (NDP) ...... Surrey–Green Timbers Langley...... Hon. Mary Polak Heyman, George (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Mission ...... Marc Dalton Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey–White Rock Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ...... Dr. Doug Bing Holman, Gary (NDP) ...... Saanich North and the Islands ...... Leonard Eugene Krog Horgan, John (NDP) ...... Juan de Fuca Nanaimo–North Cowichan ...... Doug Routley Horne, Douglas (BC Liberal) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Nechako Lakes ...... Hon. John Rustad Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Panorama Nelson-Creston ...... Michelle Mungall Huntington, Vicki (Ind.) ...... Delta South New Westminster ...... Judy Darcy James, Carole (NDP) ...... Victoria–Beacon Hill North Coast...... Jennifer Rice Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ...... Esquimalt–Royal Roads North Island ...... Claire Trevena Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) ...... Nanaimo North Vancouver–Lonsdale ...... Hon. Naomi Yamamoto Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant North Vancouver–Seymour ...... Jane Th ornthwaite Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal) ...... Shuswap Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Lake, Hon. Dr. Terry (BC Liberal) ...... Kamloops–North Th ompson Parksville-Qualicum ...... Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Boundary-Similkameen Peace River North ...... Hon. Pat Pimm Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal) ...... Burnaby North Peace River South ...... Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna–Lake Country Penticton...... Dan Ashton Macdonald, Norm (NDP) ...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Port Coquitlam ...... Mike Farnworth McRae, Hon. Don (BC Liberal) ...... Comox Valley Port Moody–Coquitlam ...... Linda Reimer Martin, John (BC Liberal) ...... Chilliwack Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...... Nicholas Simons Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Prince George–Mackenzie ...... Mungall, Michelle (NDP) ...... Nelson-Creston Prince George–Valemount ...... Hon. Shirley Bond Oakes, Hon. Coralee (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo North Richmond Centre ...... Hon. Teresa Wat Pimm, Hon. Pat (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River North Richmond East ...... Hon. Linda Reid Plecas, Darryl (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford South Richmond-Steveston ...... Polak, Hon. Mary (BC Liberal) ...... Langley Saanich North and the Islands ...... Gary Holman Popham, Lana (NDP) ...... Saanich South Saanich South ...... Lana Popham Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Shuswap ...... Greg Kyllo Reid, Hon. Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond East Skeena ...... Robin Austin Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Stikine ...... Doug Donaldson Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ...... North Coast Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Robinson, Selina (NDP) ...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey-Fleetwood ...... Hon. Peter Fassbender Routley, Bill (NDP) ...... Cowichan Valley Surrey–Green Timbers ...... Sue Hammell Routley, Doug (NDP) ...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Newton ...... Harry Bains Rustad, Hon. John (BC Liberal) ...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Panorama ...... Marvin Hunt Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Lougheed Surrey-Tynehead ...... Hon. Amrik Virk Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey-Whalley...... Bruce Ralston Simpson, Shane (NDP) ...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey–White Rock ...... Gordon Hogg Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal) ...... Parksville-Qualicum Vancouver-Fairview ...... George Heyman Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Langara Vancouver–False Creek ...... Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal) ...... Kamloops–South Th ompson Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. Suzanne Anton Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal) ...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Hastings ...... Shane Simpson Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Kensington ...... Mable Elmore Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Kingsway...... Adrian Dix Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver-Langara ...... Dr. Th omson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ...... Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Th ornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver–Point Grey ...... David Eby Th roness, Laurie (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack-Hope Vancouver-Quilchena ...... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Trevena, Claire (NDP) ...... North Island Vancouver–West End ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Tynehead Vernon-Monashee ...... Eric Foster Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill ...... Carole James Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Victoria–Swan Lake...... Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Hon. Andrew (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano ...... Yamamoto, Hon. Naomi (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ...... Yap, John (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond-Steveston Westside-Kelowna ...... Hon. Christy Clark

Party Standings: BC Liberal 49; New Democratic 34; Independent 2

CONTENTS

Th ursday, April 10, 2014 Morning Sitting

Page

Routine Business

Tributes ...... 3073 Carol-Ann Dwyer C. Trevena

Introductions by Members ...... 3073

Statements (Standing Order 25B) ...... 3073 Victims of Crime Awareness Week and Representative for Children and Youth K. Corrigan Economic and social indicators and promotion of happiness G. Hogg Jackie Hooper D. Eby Chilliwack Child and Youth Committee L. Th roness Songhees Wellness Centre M. Karagianis Spirit bears and Great Bear rainforest J. Th ornthwaite

Oral Questions ...... 3076 Premier's role with RCI Capital Group subsidiary A. Dix Hon. C. Clark Income assistance policy on child support payments and government action on poverty M. Mungall Hon. D. McRae M. Karagianis Funding for Island Sexual Health Society A. Weaver Hon. T. Lake Advanced Education Minister response to requests for meetings D. Eby Hon. A. Virk

Tabling Documents ...... 3080 B.C. Labour Relations Board, annual report, 2013

Petitions ...... 3080 N. Simons

Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills ...... 3081 Bill 19 — Animal Health Act (continued) D. Bing V. Huntington A. Weaver Hon. T. Lake

Tributes ...... 3084 Jim Flaherty Hon. M. de Jong A. Dix Committee of the Whole House ...... 3084 Bill 15 — Liquor Control and Licensing Amendment Act, 2014 (continued) Hon. S. Anton S. Simpson

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply ...... 3087 Estimates: Ministry of Agriculture Hon. S. Th omson N. Simons 3073

THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 2014 Hon. S. Th omson: Joining us in the gallery today are some good friends from Kelowna who have come to visit Th e House met at 10:05 a.m. and have a tour of the Legislature. Th ey had a couple of meetings with colleagues of mine. I'd like the House to [Madame Speaker in the chair.] make welcome Cory and Tania Whalen and their chil- dren, Nolan and Owen, who have had a great time tour- Routine Business ing the Legislature and touring Victoria. Just a little bit of a story. Cory has a long history in Prayers. this province. Cory's great-grandfather was the founder of Port Alice and the mill in Port Alice. Tributes Also joining them today in the House is Brian Markin, who's with Neucel. A little bit of a story. Neucel, through CAROL-ANN DWYER Brian Markin, donated a story log or story pole to the school, l'Anse-au-sable, in Kelowna, in my riding, that C. Trevena: I'd like to ask the House to join me in of- taught the children a lot of the native culture. All par- ticipated in the carving of the pole, and I had the great fering condolences to the family of Carol-Ann Dwyer. honour of joining them and helping to raise the pole in Carol-Ann was an activist professionally — as a drug, the middle of their school. alcohol and gambling addictions counsellor — and a Th ey're now embarked on a second project of carving fi ghter for social justice outside her work. I have to say a dugout canoe. she spent many an hour knocking on doors for the NDP This is really helping provide that inclusion in the during election campaigns. school, in school district 93 and in the French school Carol-Ann continued fi ghting towards the end of her system — providing that aboriginal culture and heritage life. Her 70th birthday became a fundraiser for ALS, to in that school system. raise money and to raise awareness of the syndrome. She [1010] was selling her scarfs and some of her wonderful jewelry. I'd like the House to make all of them welcome and Today I'm wearing one of her bangles. thank them for their contribution to our community Th e last conversation I had with Carol-Ann was about and their support for the education system in British the right to die. As the illness progressed, she was ex- Columbia. tremely fearful about being kept alive against her will as her body shut down. She said the fi ght for the right to N. Simons: I'd like to welcome a constituent from die was as fundamental as a woman's right to choose, the Powell River–Sunshine Coast and a member of the B.C. battle that was fought several decades ago. "It's my body, Nurses Union, Liana Cole. Would the House please join and I'll do with it what I want," she said. me in welcoming her here. Carol-Ann leaves her husband, Marcus Willems, as well as her large and loving family and a community Madame Speaker: Hon. Members, I have the hon- richer for having her as part of it and poorer now she's our to present two guests to you today — Bob Jackson gone. A celebration of her life is being held in Campbell and Jim Lamond, visiting from Richmond. Th ey are the River on Saturday. heart and soul of KidSport in Richmond. I would ask the House to please make them welcome. Introductions by Members Statements (Standing Order 25B) Hon. T. Wat: Th is morning I'm pleased to introduce a great advocate for B.C.'s shellfi sh and aquaculture in- VICTIMS OF CRIME AWARENESS WEEK dustry who is working tirelessly to grow our province's AND REPRESENTATIVE FOR exports of high-quality seafoods around the world and CHILDREN AND YOUTH to create jobs and investment here at home. Would the House please welcome here today Chief Richard Hardy K. Corrigan: I rise in the House today to mark National of the K'ómoks First Nation and general manager of Victims of Crime Awareness Week. Th e theme for 2014 Pentlatch Seafoods. is "Taking action." I want to take this opportunity to highlight the work of the Offi ce of the Representative for A. Weaver: It's my very great pleasure to intro- Children and Youth. It is staff ed by a multidisciplinary duce Susan Low, who is in the gallery today, from the team, all of whom are focused on ensuring that children Community Social Planning Council here in greater and youth who receive government services in British Victoria. Would the House please give her a warm wel- Columbia are protected and safe. Th e offi ce's integrity is come. protected by its independence. 3074 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

I want to commend the whole staff , but particularly from supporting them — imagine — it seems, however, the lead, Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond, the Representative that evidence would suggest otherwise. for Children and Youth. Ms. Turpel-Lafond's work, par- People's feelings about their lives are more important ticularly in her various reports on tragic incidents in- than any of those external factors. So as we go back to volving the deaths of children in British Columbia, has our communities for the Easter break, may we, as Robert highlighted defi ciencies in the systems and agencies that Kennedy suggested, focus on those things that make life are meant to protect children and youth in this province. worthwhile. Th ese reports have also off ered solutions. Particularly, she has been calling for an eff ective domestic violence JACKIE HOOPER strategy since her 2009 report on the murder of Christian Lee in Oak Bay. Many similar recommendations were D. Eby: In 1927 a hero of B.C.'s mental health move- made in her 2012 report Honouring Kaitlynne, Max ment was born. Raised during the Great Depression, and Cordon. Th at report also pointed out defi ciencies Jackie Hooper and her sister recall many meagre meals of the mental health, child protection and justice ser- of bone broth soup seasoned with parsley for supper. vices in this province and the lack of coordination be- Raising two children and living on a widow's pension of tween the three. $42 a month while suff ering from depression herself, Ms. Th e representative's offi ce does much other import- Hooper's mother could not aff ord more. ant work, including regular reviews and investigations [1015] of critical injuries and deaths of children in B.C. Several Despite facing dramatic child poverty, Ms. Hooper had reports have focused on services for aboriginal youth, the courage to come back. Between the ages of 17 and and the representative has also investigated mental health 23 she served in World War II as a driver, hitchhiked to services for youth in British Columbia. In addition and Mexico and back, got her fi rst degree at UBC in geog- among other things, the offi ce provides a very important raphy, worked as a photogrammetrist — it's just a two- role of advocacy services for youth. minute statement, but I encourage members to look up photogrammetry — and, on a dare, became a pilot. I want to commend both sides of the House for con- Ms. Hooper's fi rst bout with severe depression hit in tinuing to support the important work of the repre- 1972 aft er a diffi cult series of events in her life. Aft er at- sentative. Government is taking some of the steps tempting suicide, Ms. Hooper admitted herself to west recommended by Turpel-Lafond, but let's remember one, the psychiatric ward at UBC Hospital, where she that the theme this year is that we need action now. received exceptional care. So exceptional was her care and so exceptional is Ms. ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL INDICATORS Hooper that she had the courage to come back yet again, AND PROMOTION OF HAPPINESS this time to take on a project that would change the face of mental health treatment in B.C. Ms. Hooper started G. Hogg: In 1968 Robert Kennedy reminded us that a conversation with Coast Mental Health which led her GDP measures everything except that which makes life to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation and worthwhile. Since then the governments of Canada, the then to the New Democrat Minister of Rehabilitation United Kingdom, the OECD countries and the United and Social Improvement, Norm Levi. All were 100 per- Nations, to name a few, have surveyed, studied and cent behind her idea to start the fi rst supportive housing searched for new, more representative measurements of apartment building in B.C. for people with mental illness. economic performance and social progress. In 1974 the Hooper Apartments, named in Ms. In 2011 the United Nations declared March 20 as Hooper's honour, opened in Vancouver's West End with United Nations International Day of Happiness. All 193 25 bachelor suites. Today Coast Mental Health rents member states supported this declaration, which also nearly 1,000 suites in the province, and next month they recognized happiness as a fundamental human goal and will be honouring Ms. Hooper with the Courage To called for an inclusive, equitable, responsible and bal- Come Back Award for her determination and resilience anced approach to economic growth — an approach in working through her illness. that could serve as a guide for the development of pub- Although her personal challenges with mental health lic policies. still exist — she most recently admitted herself to hospi- When people around the world were asked what made tal in 2013 — her contributions to our province are im- them happy, the answers were remarkably consistent. Th e measurable. In addition to founding supportive mental most important issues were economic growth, family, health in B.C., she earned her master of social work at 59, work and health. So while many advertisers would have was an avid member of a Brock House hikers club until us believe that happiness comes from buying their prod- 76, paints portraits and landscapes and, at 87 years old, ucts and while some celebrities would have us believe that is a strong advocate for a good daily walk. happiness comes from fame and beauty and while some I am honoured to represent Ms. Hooper, who has lived politicians would have us believe that happiness comes in the constituency of Vancouver–Point Grey for over 40 Thursday, April 10, 2014 British Columbia Debates 3075 years. Congratulations on having the courage to come the community members who participated in the ori- back, Ms. Hooper. ginal recreation centre committee 30 years ago. So it has been a long journey. CHILLIWACK CHILD AND Th e $24 million centre, with a glorious view out over YOUTH COMMITTEE Esquimalt Harbour, was constructed without a dime from the provincial government. It is a LEED silver build- L. Th roness: I had the privilege of addressing an im- ing designed by Victoria architect Philip Chang to "walk portant group last weekend in Chilliwack, the Child and soft ly on the earth." It includes geothermal heating, solar Youth Committee. hot water and innovative materials throughout to maxi- Chilliwack is a remarkable place, where a community- mize energy effi ciency and comfort. minded people take action when they see a need, and [1020] when they do something, they do it in a big way. For ex- Th ere's a gymnasium, a fi tness centre, a health centre, ample, when a group of churches saw the needs of the a teaching kitchen, classrooms and offi ce space for the homeless, they got together and raised hundreds of thou- band administration. Th e skill of many generations of sands of dollars to fund, build and operate the Ruth and woodcarvers is evident throughout the building, with Naomi's Mission in the downtown core, now a going con- exquisite totems both inside and out. cern that ministers to hundreds every week. At the opening, the wellness centre was dedicated: "In In a similar way, others in Chilliwack saw at-risk loving memory to those who came before us, those who families, saw that agencies could work together better carried the dream and those we lost along the journey. to help them and decided to do something about it, so You are with us in spirit." Th ose include Richard Mandy, they formed the Chilliwack Child and Youth Committee. the project manager, who sadly and tragically died dur- When I visited their 21st annual day-long consultation ing the construction of the centre. meeting on Friday, the large auditorium was full of dis- I'd like to pay tribute to some of those who have made plays and people — full because there are 25 member the dream a reality: Chief John Albany; Chief Norman agencies, from Big Brothers to the YMCA and everyone George; Chief Robert Sam; and Chief Ron Sam, whose in between. leadership today is moving the Songhees Nation forward Th ey operate an amazing range of activities, guided by with pride and purpose. a comprehensive action plan informed by four busy sub- It gives me great pride to say to Chief Sam, the elders committees and a full-time child and youth coordinator. and the leaders who made it happen: well done, and Th eir monthly newsletter tells families what's happening a heartfelt congratulations. You have built a place that at the various family places around the city — about par- brings the community together, celebrates your values ent conversations, fi eld trips, budgeting workshops, craft s and that is a legacy for future generations. and coff ee meetings, family camps and vaccination clin- ics, not to mention the numerous programs for youth. SPIRIT BEARS AND Th e list really does go on and on. GREAT BEAR RAINFOREST Th e theme for this year's consultation was "Every door is the right door," as our committee seeks to have a one- J. Th ornthwaite: B.C.'s incredible natural beauty, large stop shop for every needy family that inquires at any one wildlife population and diverse ecosystem have provided of its agencies. Chilliwack's Child and Youth Committee us with a unique advantage in the global tourism market- could be a model for any community in B.C. place. Our ecotourism industry, which includes camping, I want to thank the hard-working committee and sub- hiking, backpacking and nature-based viewing, now ac- committees, the many volunteers and Karen Steegstra, counts for more than three million visitors to the prov- the CYC coordinator, for a continuing job well done. ince each year. Th eir good work reminds me that there are no better B.C. is home to the rare white kermode, or spirit bear. people and no better place to live than in Chilliwack in It is a symbol of our province and has made B.C. a prime the Fraser Valley. bear-watching destination. Th is majestic animal is ac- tually a black bear that is born white, a trait more com- SONGHEES WELLNESS CENTRE monly found on a few isolated islands within the Great Bear rainforest. It is here amidst the lush emerald green M. Karagianis: Recently I had the great privilege of of the north and central coast that the spirit bear can be standing with leaders and members of the Songhees found. Nation as they officially opened their new Songhees Th ere are dozens of bear-viewing companies in the Wellness Centre. Th is 55,000-square-foot centre has been Great Bear rainforest, and I was very fortunate to be a years in the making, and it's already a focal point for com- guest of one in June 2012. Ocean Adventures provided munity activities. What an achievement. an amazing coastal tour of the rainforest and its furry In the words of the Songhees elder Th elma Dick: "We inhabitants. I must say that it rivalled any tour I took in deserve this. It's time." Indeed it is. Th elma was one of Africa or South America. 3076 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

Unfortunately, many people haven't heard of the spir- Madame Speaker: Th e Leader of the Opposition on it bear, and few have witnessed their beauty. But Diane a supplemental. Roberts, a B.C.-based award-winning fi lmmaker, is try- ing to change that. A. Dix: Hopefully, the Premier takes a diff erent ap- Diane and her company, West Eagle Films, are about proach with directors of Crown corporations. to start production on an IMAX 3-D fi lm called Land In this case the Premier was appointed "the founding of the Spirit Bear. Th e fi lm will take viewers on a tour of chair," which is the term used by the company. Th e com- the Great Bear rainforest, immersing the audience in the pany was launched October 17, 2007. Here we are in the sights and sounds of the spirit bear's environment and spring of 2008, them drumming up business. How are capturing their beauty with the highest-resolution cam- they trying to drum up business? By saying that their eras in existence. founding chair was the former Deputy Premier and the For those unable to visit the Great Bear rainforest former Minister of Education, now the Premier. fi rsthand, Land of the Spirit Bear is shaping up to be the Th e Premier is right to say that the company has been next best thing. Th e producers are working towards a wrapped up. When it wrapped up four years later, on global release, including showings at natural history mu- May 16, 2011, who was on the board? Well, it happens seums, the Smithsonian Institute and right next door at to be the Premier, unaware as she is. I know the Premier the Royal British Columbia Museum. knows more about the private sector than I do, which I want to wish Diane and her crew all the best, and I makes it all the more surprising that the Premier would look forward to buying a ticket for opening night. be ignorant of the Company Act obligation she has as a director, ignorant that she was still a director when she Oral Questions became Premier, ignorant of the fact that they were using her name to promote the company. How is this possible? PREMIER'S ROLE What was the Premier's relationship with this com- pany? Because being a director for four years isn't do- WITH RCI CAPITAL GROUP SUBSIDIARY ing "no work." A. Dix: Hon. Speaker…. Hon. C. Clark: It may be that some time in the future the Leader of the Opposition will have an opportunity to Interjections. fi nd out a little bit about the private sector. In addition to the things that I've already outlined, it's A. Dix: Th is is fantastic, hon. Speaker. You've got to also important…. I mean, not only did I not get paid by give the people what they want. the company, not only did I not attend any meetings on A report today raises questions about the ties of the behalf of the company and not only did I cease my in- Premier to a company that has done signifi cant business volvement when I got involved in the media, but I also, with the provincial government. Part of what's troubling as the member should know, had no obligation to de- about this story in the National Post today is that the clare my relationship with that company in the time that Premier made claims that simply didn't turn out to be I was working in the private sector and outside of politics. the case when confronted by the facts. Asked about her If everything that I did in the private sector now, today, relationship with a subsidiary of RCI Capital, the Premier puts me in a confl ict, I think it would be unwise for me, says: "I don't have one." Yet there's a letter off ering her the imprudent for me, to ever speak to the media for which position of founding chair of a subsidiary of RCI Pacifi c I used to work. Gateway Education Inc. Did the Premier forget that she was the founding chair Madame Speaker: Th e Leader of the Opposition on a of this company? further supplemental.

Hon. C. Clark: No, I didn't forget the honorary chair A. Dix: Th is fantasy world in which the government position. I never did any work for the company, however. caucus lives…. As far as I understand, it never really got off the ground. I was never paid by them. Th ey have, since then…. Interjections. [1025] Th e report in the National Post has come out. I under- Madame Speaker: Members. Members, the Chair stand that that's how the member does his research. But needs to hear the question and the answer. I will say this. I never did any work for the company. I wasn't paid by the company. I never attended any meet- A. Dix: Th e Premier has done signifi cant business pro- ings at the request of the company. And as far as I know, moting this company since becoming Premier. She was a the company never even really got off the ground. director of this company as she was Premier. She seems Thursday, April 10, 2014 British Columbia Debates 3077

unaware. She says she didn't have any relationship with Madame Speaker: Member, you will direct your re- the company during her time when she worked in the marks through the Chair. media. Th at is manifestly not true. Th e Company Act contradicts her. M. Mungall: Sorry, hon. Chair. I mean, they can assert things in this fantasy world. "I wasn't a director of the company," even though she was. Madame Speaker: And I would ask you to withdraw. "Th ey weren't using me to promote their company," even though they were. I wasn't the founding chair of the com- M. Mungall: I withdraw. pany," even though she was. "I didn't sign a contract for Madame Speaker, will the Premier today stop dismiss- thousands of dollars," even though she did. ing these families, and will she commit to ending the [1030] child support clawback? Can the Premier explain why she didn't disclose this Hon. D. McRae: We've talked about this issue in this matter, when she became Premier of British Columbia, House before, and like I said before, as a father, as a teach- to the public of British Columbia? er who has worked with children for a very long time, I know this is an extremely challenging issue for single- Hon. C. Clark: Th e member asks that question in a parent families. Now, I know the member opposite has way that suggests he thinks that, although I had no obli- heard this before. gation to disclose this, if I had disclosed it before the elec- I've had the honour to serve in this ministry for now tion, there might have been a diff erent result on May 14 a ten months. I've had the honour to meet with individ- year ago. I listen to that question, and I ask myself: can it uals, including some of those people who were here yes- be possible today, almost a year later, that the members terday, and hear about the concerns they have. Th ey are across on the other side of the House still don't under- challenging, and I'm pleased that they're there advocat- stand what was at issue during the last election campaign? ing for a really vulnerable segment of our society. I know What was at issue was whether or not British British Columbia is not alone in having this conversation, Columbians wanted to grow our economy, whether as across the country there are eight other provinces who British Columbians wanted to create a future for their do similar actions as we do. children, whether British Columbians wanted to take the I've stated in this House before that people who re- opportunity to create a new industry in liquefi ed natural ceive family maintenance from a spouse may also receive gas — 100,000 new jobs, the opportunity to pay off our income assistance top-up if the maintenance payments provincial debt. do not exceed their income assistance amount. As the Here we are almost a year later — in fact, almost a year Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation, to the day that the writ was dropped — and we know as members of this governments, we continue to strive to what British Columbians decided. Th ey decided to em- support persons in British Columbia who are most vul- brace economic opportunity, to grasp the growth and the nerable. We have these conversations. We look forward future that is promised for liquefi ed natural gas. to making sure that if there are opportunities to make Th ey decided to reject a party and a leader that decided improvements, we do so. they didn't support resource development. Well, we do. [1035] We believe in growth and we believe in a bright future We take this issue very seriously, and I don't want the members opposite to ever characterize it as being any for British Columbians. diff erent. INCOME ASSISTANCE POLICY ON Madame Speaker: Th e member for Nelson-Creston CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENTS AND on a supplemental. GOVERNMENT ACTION ON POVERTY M. Mungall: I'm not too sure who the minister says M. Mungall: Yesterday single moms came here to he met with yesterday. Th e single moms were here, and stand up for their kids and all children in B.C. living in I didn't get a single phone call, a single e-mail or a text poverty. Moms like Diane Terrillon were here asking message, Facebook, tweet or anything from this minister the Premier to put some meaning into her slogans for a asking me to bring the single moms over to his offi ce so change and end the child support clawback that takes $17 that he could talk to them. million out of the hands of B.C.'s poorest kids. He did not have a conversation with them yesterday, With the stroke of a pen, the Premier could make an and it's very disappointing to hear him say that he is incredible diff erence in the lives of B.C.'s poorest kids. My talking to people when this government is not. It is very question is to the Premier. Rather than dismiss these fam- disappointing to hear the minister continually compare ilies like you did yesterday — and stop smirking, Premier himself to parents who are living on $1,000 a month — will you, today…? when he makes $150,000 each year. 3078 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

Earlier this week the member for Maple Ridge– Interjection. Mission argued against a poverty reduction strategy in B.C., saying: "Food. I have not met children starving in M. Karagianis: Madame Speaker, I think I have the British Columbia in the past 50-some years." Clearly, the fl oor. Could we ask the minister, please, to let me have member has not visited the food banks and soup kitch- the fl oor? ens in his own community. Many children in B.C. are going hungry. Child clients of food banks have risen to Madame Speaker: Please take your seat, Member. 30 percent, and that's exactly why the single moms were Please continue. here yesterday. My question is back to the Premier. No more empty M. Karagianis: On Monday we had a debate in this slogans: will the Premier today commit to taking action, House about a poverty reduction strategy. Th e member stop dismissing these families and end the child support for Maple Ridge–Mission also argued a poverty reduc- clawback? tion strategy isn't needed because "there are about half a dozen thrift stores that provide low- or no-cost cloth- Hon. D. McRae: I've been in this House for fi ve years, ing for the needy." and what the member opposite just accused me of is rep- I'd like to ask the Premier and the minister responsible rehensible. Just because I have a job that actually pays if they agree with their colleague that charity is a replace- a certain amount of dollars doesn't mean that I do not ment for government action on poverty. If not, will this understand the concerns and challenges facing single- government do the right thing today and remove the parent families. clawback from single-parent families who need this to I ran for this party, for this province, because I want take care of their children? Remove the clawback. Th at to make life better for all British Columbians. And yes, is all you need to do to make this go away. I have an opportunity in this day to have a job to help make lives better for vulnerable citizens of this province. Hon. D. McRae: As Minister of Social Development But this is not the job I've always had or always will have. and Social Innovation, I am charged with assisting indi- I honestly believe we work hard in this province — not viduals who are in a vulnerable place in society. As the just in this Legislature, not just in school districts, not just members opposite know, areas which I'm responsible for in non-profi t organizations. We want to make sure that are areas like income assistance, persons with disabilities those in our society who need a little bit more are there and yes, some employment programs. to be supported, and it's not an easy task. To accuse me As a government, we grow the economy to provide ser- otherwise just makes me angry. vices for British Columbians. One of the things that's so We grow the economy of this province so we can pro- essential is that we make sure that British Columbians vide supports for vulnerable citizens of this province. can have jobs. Th at is why 800,000 individuals do not pay MSP pre- As we go forward in this province, we are charged with miums. Th at is why more than a quarter of a million the responsibility of making sure that families, parents, British Columbians do not pay for PharmaCare. We don't will be better able to support their children. We do so by need to talk about bus passes as well. But do not accuse making sure there is an economic climate that individ- me of not caring for the citizens of British Columbia. uals can have hope for to make sure they have jobs to raise their families and provide opportunities for their Interjections. young children. Now, that being said, I want to remind the members Madame Speaker: Th e members will come to order. opposite that we do many things for residents in British Columbia. If a person is a single parent on income assist- M. Karagianis: Th e reality is that this issue is not about ance, they have access to about $385 of income tax sup- that minister. It's not about him. It's about the children ports every month. Th is works out to a huge opportunity and the families who are having their money clawed back for individuals to get supports. every single month by this government. We have had an opportunity in the last nine months [1040] in British Columbia to do some amazing things. I know the members opposite may claim that we were not work- Interjections. ing when we were actually not sitting in this Legislature. I was so glad that we had the opportunity for myself M. Karagianis: Obviously, a very sore point, this topic, and my colleagues to go around the province of British and I can understand why that side of the House is so Columbia and meet with individuals and organizations. sensitive to this. Not only did I have that seven months, with On Monday we had a debate in here about poverty Community Living Month, to travel around the prov- reduction. ince of British Columbia, but we also had the opportunity Thursday, April 10, 2014 British Columbia Debates 3079

to lay that foundation for a conversation about the white looking forward to canvassing this in estimates coming paper for persons with disabilities. Th e conversation was forward. not just about persons with disabilities. One of the things that we look for Budget 2014 to do But that being said, we were able to hear about con- is provide some extra supports for CLBC. Why? Th ey are cerns and challenges and opportunities that we can do… a vulnerable section of our society and one we ought to make sure we grow the economy and provide those ex- Madame Speaker: Th ank you, Minister. tra supports for. We are just now doing the fi nal analysis of the data Hon. D. McRae: …to better serve the residents of this from the consultation process from the disability white province. paper. I look forward to having a work plan to go forward I'm sure there's going to be a follow-up question to fol- to help British Columbians all over this great province. low, and I look forward to giving some more information to my colleagues. FUNDING FOR ISLAND SEXUAL HEALTH SOCIETY M. Karagianis: Well, this conversation gets more dis- appointing each and every day in this House. I heard the A. Weaver: Island Sexual Health Society provides es- Finance Minister brag the other day that all those cabinet sential primary and public services to the lower Island, ministers are going to get a 10 percent raise very shortly. with over 26,000 patient visits each year. It fi lls a signifi - Th ey were forthcoming. cant gap around basic health care needs in a cost-eff ective At the same time that they're all going to get their 10 manner. percent pay raise, they are taking $100 a month out of the My riding has both Camosun College and the most impoverished families and children in this prov- University of Victoria, with thousands and thousands of ince — taking this money back, clawing it back every students who do not have GPs or access to GPs and who single month, the money that would make all the diff er- require these services. ence in the world. Th e Island Sexual Health Society is systemically under- Th ey have no compunction about taking back $100 funded by our public health system, needing more than a month from children, while they can brag about pay a third of their budget — in fact, 36.4 percent, if you raises. It is disgraceful — disgraceful. wish to know, of their operational budget — from non- Now, it's simple. Th is can all be fi xed. Th e Premier to- governmental sources. As a consequence, they are strug- day can stand up and say, "I will stop clawing back child gling to stay open. In fact, you might say they are victims support from children," and this will all go away. of their own success. Will the government, will the Premier, do the right My question is to the Health Minister. Will the minis- thing — stop clawing back child support payments from children and impoverished families in this province? ter make a commitment to support Island Sexual Health [1045] in continuing to provide these essential services?

Hon. D. McRae: Th ere's always work to be done in Hon. T. Lake: Th ank you to the member for Oak Bay– British Columbia in this ministry, work that we will al- Gordon Head for the question. ways continue to do. Th at is why we continue to meet Island Sexual Health is a non-profi t organization that with individuals, with organizations and even businesses does provide excellent service to people in the Victoria to see what we can do to better provide and evolve in- area. Th ey have a mixed-funding model. Th ey provide come assistance for persons who are needing work but services on a fee-for-service basis. Th at continues, so also persons with disabilities in this province. health services are available through that model. Th ey We know that society changes, and there are always also provide some public health services through fund- diff erent challenges that may come up. Th at is why, as a ing from Island Health, funding that has continued to minister, I strive incredibly hard to make sure we meet increase over time. with individuals, not just in Victoria, not in the Lower I understand that Island Sexual Health moved into Mainland, but in communities large and small across larger facilities and that the higher costs associated this province. Sometimes the needs are diff erent in, say, with those larger facilities have outpaced their revenue a community in northern British Columbia like Dawson in terms of the MSP fee-for-service model. I know that Creek or Fort St. John because of climatic, economic or Health Authority is working with geographic diff erences. Island Sexual Health, and we will be involved in those Th at being said, we want to make sure there are op- discussions to look at ways of supporting this organiza- portunities there. We don't just stop and talk — one of tion to maintain the valuable services they do provide the things I want the members opposite to remind them- and also to maintain and stay within the budget that they selves of. You will look at the budget documents. I'm have for those services. 3080 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

Madame Speaker: Oak Bay–Gordon Head on a sup- He writes: "I regret to remind you that as of today you plemental. have failed to respond to a letter sent to you last August requesting a detailed briefi ng of the funding model ap- A. Weaver: Th ank you to the minister for the very plicable to Capilano University. We are now approaching thoughtful response to that question. the six-month mark." I would like to add that just this week the board of The Advanced Education Minister has also not ac- Island Sexual Health met and agreed to cut their budget cepted the open invitation from students, employers and for this next fi scal year by $140,000, and they also made community leaders to meet and discuss recent cuts to some structural changes by going to a walk-in model technology, arts and ABE programs at Cap. to increase client numbers and decrease administrative Minister, we are now at the eight-month mark. Can costs. But as the minister noted, they still need long-term you explain why you won't meet, even with your own col- commitment of $235,000 per year to off set tenancy costs. league, to defend the chronic underfunding of Capilano Th is is the barrier to their continued success. University, a school that is B.C.'s lowest-funded univer- Again to the minister: would the minister be able to sity? agree, again, to work with Island Sexual Health in order to solve the crisis, the short-term crisis that they face, in Hon. A. Virk: Well, the member opposite continues terms of meeting their monthly tenancy costs? to rely on selective facts and misuse of facts. In fact, I [1050] have been at the main campus of every single university Frankly, the services they off er to southern Vancouver in British Columbia. I have met with faculty. I have met Island are simply too important for them not to remain with staff . I have met with students at each and every solvent. university in British Columbia. I have met with repre- sentative student unions. I have met with diff erent repre- Hon. T. Lake: Again, I want to acknowledge the very sentatives of diff erent groups all across British Columbia, good work that Island Sexual Health provides to resi- including industry. dents in the Victoria area, particularly the university In fact, we are re-engineering education to make sure population. The member from Oak Bay and I share that a learner becomes an earner, and that's what we are family members who attend the university and know that committed to — making sure that students get jobs. We these services are very valuable. However, whether it's a non-profi t organization or are committed all across this province to make sure that whether it's a private corporation providing publicly education is relevant and that students get the right train- funded health care, it is important that they pay atten- ing at the right place at the right time to get a job. tion to the funding model and the revenue that comes in and the expenditures. [End of question period.] In this situation, this organization decided to move into space that perhaps outpaced their ability to match Tabling Documents with revenue. But we will work with them. We will work with Vancouver Island Health Authority to look to see if Hon. S. Bond: I have the honour to present the British there are ways of supporting the organization while mak- Columbia Labour Relations Board 2013 annual report. ing sure they stay within their budget. Petitions ADVANCED EDUCATION MINISTER RESPONSE TO REQUESTS FOR MEETINGS N. Simons: It gives me great pleasure to present to this House a petition with the signatures of 3,712 people call- D. Eby: At each rally I've been to with B.C. stu- ing on the government to make sure that the Agricultural dents who are trying to save their English-as-a-second- Land Commission is strengthened in order to protect language programs, the students tell me the minister has agricultural land for the future. not accepted their invitations to meet. When I went to Simon Fraser University to tour their leaky buildings, Orders of the Day student leaders said the minister had not accepted their invitations to meet either. Hon. M. de Jong: In Committee A, Committee of Now we've received a copy of a letter, from the minis- Supply, estimates of the Ministry of Agriculture. In this ter for West Vancouver–Capilano. chamber, second reading debate continues on Bill 19, the Animal Health Act. An Hon. Member: Th e member. [1055]

D. Eby: Th e member — not the minister yet. [D. Horne in the chair.] Thursday, April 10, 2014 British Columbia Debates 3081

Second Reading of Bills were also held with B.C.'s cattle, dairy, chicken, turkey, sheep and beef sectors in 2010 and 2011 during the con- BILL 19 — ANIMAL HEALTH ACT sultation in the policy development stages. (continued) Generally speaking, most respondents supported an updated animal health policy that included all animals, D. Bing: I would like to conclude my remarks on the not just livestock, and a wider range of animal diseases. Animal Health Act, 2014. Th ey favoured clarifi cation of control actions that could Our government believes, following the models of the be taken in response to disease, with decisions based on federal and other provincial governments, that protecting scientifi c evidence. the confi dential information submitted to government by Th ey felt that traceability programs should be aligned farmers is the right direction. Based on experiences in with others in Canada that already exist — that is, through other jurisdictions, there has not been a successful ani- federal government or through marketing boards. Th ey mal disease control program anywhere in the world with- expressed concern about protection of privacy for infor- out voluntary farmer cooperation. Th e chief veterinarian mation collected as part of a traceability program or for for British Columbia has confi rmed this. other purposes. Th ey voiced strong support for enforce- Without information and data, the provincial gov- ment provisions. ernment and the chief veterinarian cannot react ac- [1100] cordingly. We do not want to act in a vacuum where we Various ministries were consulted during the develop- are surprised by disease. In our government's view, the ment of the legislation, including the provincial veter- consequences and potential risk to the health of British inarian and staff and B.C.'s chief medical offi cer. Also, Columbians outweighs the commissioner's concerns. A the Ministries of Agriculture; Health; Environment; 2012 review of legislation indicates that there are 32 other Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations; and statutes currently in force in B.C. that have full or partial Justice. Also, the office of the chief information offi- notwithstanding clauses in them, and this is no diff erent. cer; trade policy; animal health specialists in Alberta, It is important to discuss the records released under Saskatchewan and Ontario; and the Canadian Food FOIPPA. Th e goal of this act is to protect human and ani- Inspection Agency. mal health, and cooperation of producers is absolutely es- During our discussions in consultation with both the sential. Farmers need to be assured that their data is held public and producers we heard a clear position expressed and analyzed and that results are communicated back to by the majority of participants that has been used to de- them just as if they are dealing with a private laboratory. velop the legislation. Virtually all of the responses and Medical records can easily be misunderstood by those input we received supported the modernization of the without proper medical training, and incorrectly inter- Animal Health Act, 2014, to include more diseases in preted records in the public realm could be devastating to animals, clearer language, increased scope of control ac- a farmer's operation. Without that level of confi dentiality, tions and stronger enforcement. farmers are much less likely to participate in surveillance Legislation takes time to develop once consultation is and monitoring programs. Th e credibility of disease sur- complete. Th e new legislation includes all of those and veillance and management relies on farmer participation. refl ects the thoughts and suggestions of the province's Th e Animal Health Act, 2014, follows the precedent producers and British Columbians. of federal and other provincial governments who believe In closing, I would like to reiterate the key message protecting the confi dential information submitted to that the current Animal Health Act dates from 1948 and government by farmers is correct. Other provinces have has not been modifi ed substantially since that time. Th is recognized the need for participation in surveillance and legislation will update B.C.'s 66-year-old laws and give monitoring eff orts. the provincial government the ability to limit the spread In the B.C. model the Minister of Agriculture has con- of current and emerging diseases and better respond to trol over the release of analytical information derived disease outbreaks. Th ese changes will enable our gov- from lab analysis and any associated information such ernment to take critical disease management actions on as personal and contact information. Th is ensures that a signifi cantly larger number of diseases more quickly the minister can be advised by the chief veterinary offi - within the fi rst 24 to 48 hours of a serious animal disease cer and any of the animal experts the ministry employs being confi rmed. as part of the decision-making process. Th e Animal Health Act, 2014, enables government to Alberta has a specifi c notwithstanding clause in its ani- employ modern animal disease management practices, mal health legislation to protect information supplied to to inspect and seize animals or their products and to issue government as related to animal disease control. B.C. is orders for actions to be taken by animal owners. Th e act proposing a very similar clause. also contains higher penalties for off ences and allows for In 2010 the public was invited to provide feedback on emergency powers during times of crisis. animal health policy through an on-line survey. Meetings Th is legislation brings the Animal Health Act, 2014, 3082 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

into harmony with other legislation across Canada and commissioner on how to protect the producer and farmer refl ects the realities of increasing global trade and travel. from commercial harm? If there is a way to protect the producer during the investigative stage, then why not V. Huntington: I am pleased to be able to speak on Bill reach out and adopt the recommendation? 19, the Animal Health Act, and I would like to congratu- Yes, the farmer should be protected if presence of dis- late the government on an act that has received good ease has not been proven. As I suggested during debate support from the stakeholders and that had a good con- on the last bill, keep the testing and inspection and docu- sultation process attached to it. ments confi dential, at least until it's determined that dis- It gives the government the opportunity to limit the ease is in fact present. Th en the gloves should come off spread of disease. It gives emergency powers in that situa- and the public have its right to know. tion. It demands recordkeeping in order to properly track Th e commissioner advises that it is perfectly possible disease. It updates inspection and monitoring. It includes to protect the producer under the provisions surround- diseases that were unknown at the time of the 1948 act ing commercial interest. So why not? Why would we not? it replaces. And it increases administrative penalties for Ultimately, we are talking about the human food failure to report. It is an act and a consolidation that chain, and if there was ever a right to know that disease makes sense and a modernization long overdue. Eff ective is present, this is the time. Muzzling scientists, reporters, animal disease control is essential in this modern era of offi cials is wrong and does not observe the public interest. easy movement, travel and contact. I urge the minister to review the subject provisions of However, in spite of the great values of the Animal this act and to take the steps necessary to ensure the con- Health Act, there's a glaring problem with Bill 19 — the cerns of the Information and Privacy Commissioner are same problem that prompted my comments on the previ- fully satisfi ed. We can do it this session. Th ere is still time ous bill; almost the very same problem that prompted the to bring an amendment that will make this bill stronger withdrawal of the previous bill. Yet again, no considera- and more responsive to the central democratic issues of tion has been given to the concerns of the Information government transparency and the availability of informa- and Privacy Commissioner or to the public's right to tion in the public interest. know. Consultation with the Information and Privacy A. Weaver: I'd like to start by acknowledging the min- Commissioner is as important as consultation with any ister's eff orts to provide an update to this legislation per- other stakeholder. Indeed, it should be a requirement that taining to animal health and disease control. consultation with the commissioner be conducted. I fail I want to also thank his staff for the extremely informa- to understand why any ministry, any minister, any gov- tive and substantive briefi ng that I received a few days ernment would not want to be secure in the knowledge ago. It's obvious from that briefi ng that much eff ort and that their bill ensured transparency, especially when a much passion and much hard work was put into writing third-party interest can be protected under existing law. this piece of legislation, and I want to personally acknow- I would go so far as to say that consultation should be ledge those who played a role in getting it to this point. a statutory requirement. Even further, I believe the legis- Th e health of animals and control of animal-related lation should be required to resolve any objections the diseases and outbreaks is an important issue to address, Information and Privacy Commissioner might recom- especially in today's society, where global travel and mend. But here we have a bill that fails to respond to one trade continue to expand. Given this reality, I believe in of the most important and necessary independent offi - most ways Bill 19 off ers an important step forward. For cers of this Legislature, of any legislature. example, increasing the number of reportable diseases We appoint a commissioner of information and pri- so as to include the updated understanding of the dis- vacy in order to ensure government is transparent yet eases that aff ect livestock and requiring ranchers and protects the legitimate privacy of its citizens. What evi- farmers to provide better training for employees will no dence does the minister have that enables him and his doubt update and improve disease control mechanisms department to say they disagree with the commissioner's in our province. concerns? What independent specialist did they consult? I do understand there have been signifi cant concerns Who knows more than the commissioner? Th ere are 20 raised over some aspects of this bill, particularly in its years of experience and precedent that the commission- previous form a couple of years ago. Let me give a specifi c er's offi ce represents. Why would we second-guess her example. I understand right now that if I owned a poultry opinion? farm and I found diseased poultry, it might be in my in- [1105] terest to send that poultry to the United States for testing. A better question might be: why does the minister feel If I sent that piece of poultry in British Columbia for he has the right to infringe on the personal privacy of an testing, the results of that test might get out. And if that individual or withhold information from the public, es- test was faulty, panic in the public might ensue. If that pecially when there is a constructive suggestion from the test was sent to the U.S., I don't have to worry about that Thursday, April 10, 2014 British Columbia Debates 3083

test getting out, unless it is a reportable disease. But then positive update to a critical piece of legislation, and I'll the only way the B.C. government would fi nd out about certainly be supporting this as we move to the next stage that is when border control measures were put in place of debate. between the Canada-U.S. border. Th is seems wrong. I would like to say now that I will be calling for a div- I recognize that there is a problem with the freedom- ision on this bill, and I'd like to say why, if I can. Too oft en of-information aspect of this. I recognize that govern- the media only report the negative things that happen in ment is trying to manage its way, to navigate this very this Legislature. Today was a very negative experience for diffi cult problem. Th at being said, I think the ministry me, listening to the discussion back and forth on issues has taken the appropriate steps to help ensure a neces- that are of great importance to British Columbians. I sary fl ow of information for the purpose of ensuring recognize you're going to call me out of order here, hon. public safety. Speaker. But I want people to recognize that there are First, there has been much discussion over the restric- times in this place where all parties agree on substantial tions this bill imposes on public access to information, pieces of legislation. Th at is the important message that as has been articulated by the Information and Privacy needs to get out there. Commissioner. Th ere's concern that this bill will limit Th is is a substantial piece of legislation. Th is is an im- the information that can be released to the public dur- portant piece of legislation, and British Columbians need ing a potential animal disease outbreak, as I mentioned to know that while people have concerns, all parties are in my example a few minutes ago. In particular, this bill supporting it and moving it forward through commit- would exempt six specifi c areas of information from the tee stage. purview of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Deputy Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, I call on [1110] the minister to close debate. I understand why this has attracted so much attention, and I fully support the independent oversight that is re- Hon. T. Lake: Th ank you to all of the members who quired when we are dealing with privacy issues. However, spoke on this bill in second reading. I particularly want I also feel that we must establish a system that promotes to thank the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head for his the timely reporting of animal-related diseases so that comments. I think he did an excellent job of talking about the necessary response can be undertaken and the greater the balance that we're trying to strike here with this bill. public interest can be served. In my earlier comments I talked about the $1.4 bil- Pending further analysis in the committee stage, I feel lion that is generated in British Columbia in livestock that this legislation before us may strike the necessary receipts from the sale of cattle, hogs, poultry, eggs, dairy, balance between ensuring information can be made pub- honey and other animals and animal by-products. It is lic and providing adequate protection of personal infor- unquestionable that that could be put at risk by a devas- mation so as to promote the self-reporting of potential tating disease that would spread from producer to pro- animal-based diseases. ducer. Secondly, the amount of power that a health inspector Th is bill is necessary for a number of reasons. Obviously, appears to be granted in emergency situations has also it's to prevent the spread of disease through animal popu- received some criticism. In the event that B.C.'s chief vet- lations but also to protect public health. We know there erinarian declares an emergency, the act seems to provide are diseases called zoonotic diseases that originate in an inspector with the necessary powers for the collec- animals but can end up in the human population. In fact, tion, use and disclosure of personal information. It's my they can mutate and then spread throughout the human understanding that these powers are in line, in fact, with population, human to human, which we've seen with those already found in the Public Health Act and are sim- SARS and H1N1 in the past. ply in place to ensure the ministry is able to take appro- Th e trick in this approach is to fi nd the right balance priate action in the event of an emergency. between the ability to access information but providing Finally, some have raised concerns that the maximum confi dence in producers to report potential indicators of penalties for an off ence proposed by this bill may be too disease. Th e member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head rightly punitive. It's obvious, of course, that the previous max- cited concerns on the part of producers. imum penalty of $2,000 in a case that has grave and pro- [1115] found public health concerns is undoubtedly lenient by If the information that is submitted to a provincial lab- today's standards. Th ese new maximum penalties again oratory were to be made public…. Th ere are instances appear to be in line with animal health acts in other juris- where we have false positive tests, for example, and in- dictions which the legislation is supposed to bring us in formation that is released inappropriately could be dev- harmony with. astating to an individual producer, could be devastating While there are some details of this bill to explore to an entire part of our agriculture industry. further in committee, I fi nd this to be a substantial and When I travelled to the U.K. about ten years ago, I was 3084 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

there during an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. I Mr. Flaherty served in a position of great responsibil- witnessed fi rsthand the incredible devastation it had on ity on behalf of Canadians for, I believe, eight years. I the food-producing economy of the U.K., with pyres of believe everyone in the federal parliament and everyone animals being burned in fi elds to prevent the spread of here, irrespective of political stripe, would conclude that that devastating illness. he served with distinction, with dignity. It is important that we have a very robust, rigorous sys- When he withdrew from that position, I think many tem of testing while providing the confi dence in produ- people, in paying tribute to his work, also quietly har- cers to be able to provide that information in a way that boured the hope that he would have some time available they feel will not harm their reputation, their income, with his family to celebrate, in the way he wanted to, his their livelihood. Again, the minister has the ability, at the achievements and look forward to many long and happy end of the day, to release information if it is in the public years. Sadly, that has not transpired. interest, which the minister certainly would do. I know that all members of the House would want to I also had the opportunity to travel to China and Japan convey to the federal parliament and to Mr. Flaherty's as the co-chair of the Ranching Task Force, along with family our respect for the work he performed on behalf the former Agriculture Minister, when we were open- of all Canadians and our condolences for the sense of loss ing up markets for producers here in British Columbia. that they feel today. Recently we heard about the opening of the Korean mar- ket to British Columbia beef. Th is represents an enor- A. Dix: Just to join with the Minister of Finance, as he mous economic opportunity for agriculture, which I notes and as we know, Mr. Flaherty served with distinc- know all parties in this House do support. tion in provincial politics as well, on both government It was important then, when we laid the groundwork and opposition sides. for this expansion of this economic opportunity for agri- I know that this will be a very, very diffi cult day not just culture, that we put in place updated legislation like the for his colleagues and people in the federal parliament Animal Health Act to protect the agriculture producers but in particular for his family. We certainly join with in the province of British Columbia and to protect hu- the Minister of Finance's comments and hope that the man health at the same time. House will send this message from all of us to his family. With that, I move second reading of Bill 19. [1120] Madame Speaker: It will be done. [Madame Speaker in the chair.] Hon. M. de Jong: Our work continues. I call com- Madame Speaker: Members, would you kindly take mittee stage of Bill 15, Liquor Control and Licensing your seats to assist in the taking of the division. Amendment Act. Hon. Members, the question is second reading of Bill 19. Committee of the Whole House

Second reading of Bill 19 approved unanimously on a BILL 15 — LIQUOR CONTROL AND division. [See Votes and Proceedings.] LICENSING AMENDMENT ACT, 2014 (continued) Hon. T. Lake: I move that Bill 19 be referred to a Committee of the Whole for consideration at the next Th e House in Committee of the Whole (Section B) on sitting of the House aft er today. Bill 15; D. Horne in the chair.

Bill 19, Animal Health Act, read a second time and re- Th e committee met at 11:30 a.m. ferred to a Committee of the Whole House for considera- tion at the next sitting of the House aft er today. On section 14 (continued). [1125] Hon. S. Anton: We were discussing the question of Tributes hearings in front of the general manager, and I have a clarifi cation which I would just like to read out. JIM FLAHERTY On the topic of the licensee's opportunity to be heard by the general manager before a fi nal decision is made Hon. M. de Jong: Madame Speaker, just before calling on issues such as a licence suspension, transfers and en- the next business in the House, I think members, through forcement actions. As I stated previously, the licensee is, the advent of technology, are aware that the report, which in practice, given the opportunity for a hearing before has now been confi rmed, is that former Finance Minister the decisions are made. But I'll give some clarifi cation Jim Flaherty has, very sadly, passed away. here. A hearing can mean an oral hearing or a hearing Thursday, April 10, 2014 British Columbia Debates 3085

by written submissions. Th at was the piece I did not in- the transfer of a licence held by a person who has been clude last time. convicted of a prescribed number of prescribed off ences Generally, hearings by written submissions are used under the laws of Canada or British Columbia." for issues such as administrative licence suspensions, li- Th at's removed, and it now says that they must take ac- cence applications and transfers — so "fi t and proper" — tion against a licensee, and then bases it on the licensee's as well as others. Oral hearings are used when facts are compliance history, matters prescribed by regulation in dispute or credibility must be assessed. Th is method and other matters that the general manager considers is generally used in enforcement cases. relevant. In both oral and written hearings the licensee is given Could the minister explain a little bit about what the all the information the general manager may consider in eff ect of that change is? Th e current act seems to say that the case, and the applicant is provided the opportunity to if you've been convicted of something previously, it's respond before a decision is made. pretty absolute what happens. Th is, it appears, provides some more latitude to the general manager to consider S. Simpson: Just a question in regard to the clarifi ca- other factors before taking action. Could the minister tion from the minister. Th e decision about whether it will explain what the practical result of this change will be? be an oral or a written hearing — that's a decision of the general manger? Th ey make that determination? Hon. S. Anton: Th e former (3) was actually never used, because it was a prescribed number of prescribed Hon. S. Anton: Yes, that's correct — the general man- off ences. Th at never was put into a regulation. So in fact, ager, of course, including his or her delegate. the old (3) was not used. What the new (3) does is allow the diff erent considera- S. Simpson: On section 14. Could the minister just tions for the general manager, which was a strong request give a bit of an overview. It's a fairly lengthy change. by industry — that the general manager should be able to Section 20, as it was written in the current act, will be take into account compliance history and things that go repealed and replaced with the section that is in Bill 15. into regulation and, I think, to allow more ability to deal Could the minister give a bit of an overview about with the appropriate sanction for the conduct in question. what changes are incorporated here that are diff erent [1140] than what's in the existing act? [1135] S. Simpson: If we had a circumstance where the gen- eral manager was taking action against the licensee based Hon. S. Anton: Yes, this is the enforcement section, as on section 3, would it be the requirement of the general the member will know. A lot of this enforcement scheme manager to provide a written explanation around things is carrying over from the previous act. Th ere are some like compliance history, other regulatory matters, saying, new pieces to it. Section 20(3) is new. Sections 20(7) and "I'm taking action X because of," and provide that docu- (8) were regulations and are now included in the act. Th e ment in writing to the licensee? former 20(3) is repealed. I think, actually, we really kind of fi nished up last time at 20.02, 20.03 and 20.04, and we Hon. S. Anton: Yes, the fi nal decision is in writing, and can go into those in a moment. But in the earlier part of it does contain the matters that were considered. the section, those are the pieces that are new or changed. S. Simpson: I think I got that. I just want a clarifi ca- S. Simpson: Could the minister tell us, maybe to re- tion. When the general manager writes back to the li- mind us, what's new about 20(3)? censee and says, "We've made a determination not to approve of the transfer of this, and here are the reasons," Hon. S. Anton: The liquor policy review's No. 12 he will then document those reasons so that the licensee's recommendation said: "Due to the varying size and focus not just being told, "You've been rejected because you've of licensed establishments, consideration should be given breached the act," but in fact, "Here are the specifi cs for to how diff erent types of penalties — for example, a sus- the reason that we chose to reject your licence," if that pension versus a monetary penalty — may impact a li- was the circumstance. censee and staff ." What subsection (3) does is require the general man- Hon. S. Anton: Th e former subsection (4) is now sub- ager to take into account compliance history, other rel- section (9). I don't think we should spend a lot of time evant matters and anything that is appropriate to put into analyzing why the numbers are the way they are. I'm sure a regulation. there's an excellent reason. Th e new subsection (9) says that if the general man- S. Simpson: When I read the existing 20(3), it says ager makes a determination, "the general manager must, that "the general manager must suspend, cancel or order in writing to the licensee," specify the action, the reasons, 3086 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

the details of the action. I think that's what the member I believe — and $25,000 for any other reason referred to is looking for. in this section. Could the minister tell us: are these chan- ges to what the current rules or the current maximums S. Simpson: Th e minister has said sections 20(7) and are? Or are they consistent with the current maximums? 20(8) had been regulation and are now being put into legislation. Could the minister tell us what the thinking Hon. S. Anton: It's not a change. is for the decision to not have these be regulatory but be legislated authorities now? S. Simpson: I appreciate that these are maximums. Could the minister give us some idea of what the aver- Hon. S. Anton: Th is is a housekeeping consolidation. ages have been in terms of both those categories? Have Th e conduct of the hearings and the rules around them they tended to be at this level, or have we had some other were contained both in regulation and in legislation, and level? What has the average penalty been where a monet- this is moving them so they're together in the legislation. ary penalty has been imposed? [1150] S. Simpson: Section 20 — before the general manager was to take an action against a licensee — has incorpor- Hon. S. Anton: It's not really part of the changes to the ated all of the bits and pieces and rules and the processes act. I think if the member wanted that, perhaps we could that would be followed, laid out in section 20. get that information to him rather than going through it Could the minister tell us a little about the expectation at length right now. of the engagement process for the general manager or their delegate with a licensee before you get to the point S. Simpson: I appreciate that. It is my sense that ac- of taking action? What should a licensee reasonably ex- tually it is pretty important to the act to know what pect in terms of engagement with the branch, with the people actually pay, so it would be good to get that. I general manager, before they get to the point where an appreciate that the information isn't readily available to action is contemplated by the general manager? the minister and her staff . I'm happy to get it later, but I [1145] would appreciate the information. Section (6) says that if a corporation is liable for a pen- Hon. S. Anton: The process of this…. If there is alty under this section, "an offi cer, director or agent of thought to be a contravention, the inspector will discuss the corporation who authorizes, permits or acquiesces in it with the licensee and, in appropriate circumstances, the contravention is also liable to the penalty." Does that will issue a contravention notice. If the off ence requires it, mean there could be a penalty applied against the corpor- there will then be a notice of enforcement action, which ate entity and then another penalty applied against the is the inspector's way of saying that they are considering offi cer or director? Or would it be an either-or situation? a sanction. At that point the licensee can accept the sanc- tion with a waiver or the licensee can request a hearing, Hon. S. Anton: It could be both. I would note that this and I think we've talked about the hearings. section also was in the act before. Th ere is one change, though, because it used to be that an employee could be S. Simpson: Section (4) in the act here lays out a liable to the penalty. Th at has been taken out. couple of options. Th e options are monetary penalties or licence suspension. Is that an either-or situation? Or S. Simpson: So with this, do the same maximums that does the general manager have the authority to, in fact, are noted in section (5) apply? I presume they apply to suspend for a while and put a monetary penalty in place the corporation. Th ose same maximums, those same lev- as well? els of penalty would also apply to an offi cer, director or agent who was potentially liable for such a fi ne. Hon. S. Anton: Section (2) sets out the actions that the general manager can undertake against the licensee, Hon. S. Anton: Section (6) is about who actually has and there are fi ve of them there. What section (4) does is to pay the penalty. If the corporation is assessed a pen- say that the general manager, in the public interest, may alty under the provisions of the act, the offi cer, director actually increase the monetary penalties or increase the or agent is also liable to pay that. In other words, it's how length of the suspension. Generally, both don't happen, you collect it, not how it's imposed. although technically, I think it's possible that both could happen. S. Simpson: Just a clarifi cation. I thought a minute ago the minister said both could be liable, the corpora- S. Simpson: Section (5) lays out the maximums for a tion and the director. Are we saying here there would monetary penalty: $50,000 for a contravention of sec- be a single penalty — let's say it's $50,000, for lack of a tion 38(1) — which is essentially the illegal sale of liquor, better term — and the liability can rest with either the Thursday, April 10, 2014 British Columbia Debates 3087

individuals or with the corporation, but somebody is li- able for that? PROCEEDINGS IN THE Does the general manager direct that it shall be the dir- DOUGLAS FIR ROOM ector who's liable or it shall be the corporation? Or does it just say: "Corporation X and all your directors owe us Committee of Supply $50,000. You pay it. We're not particularly concerned about whose pocket it comes out of, but you're all liable ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE for it until we get a cheque"? Th e House in Committee of Supply (Section A); M. Hon. S. Anton: Th e member summed it up very well. Dalton in the chair. [1155] Th e committee met at 11:04 a.m. S. Simpson: I'll do one more question, and then I think we'll be breaking for lunch. On Vote 14: ministry operations, $64,217,000. Section (7) lays out that if the general manager is pro- posing to hold a hearing and is providing written notice Hon. S. Th omson: I look forward to the estimates to the licensee, they will put specifi cs in. Under (7)(b) it process here for the Ministry of Agriculture. As every- says, "specifying the actions the general manager propos- body knows, I'm fi lling in, in this process for Minister es to take," notifying the licensee that they "may waive Pat Pimm. the opportunity" under section (8). Th en section (8) says [1105] that they can do all of those things. I know that on both sides of the House our thoughts Th e question I have is: do we have circumstances…? If and prayers are with Pat for his recovery in the current the penalty is X, whatever the penalty is that's proposed challenges he's facing. I know he would like to be here, by the general manager and laid out in the notice to the but as I said, our thoughts and prayers really are with him. licensee, are there instances where the general manager I'd like to introduce a few Ministry of Agriculture will say, "Th e penalty is X, but if you waive, the penalty is employees who are here today with me — Derek Sturko, Y" — i.e., a plea bargain of sorts? Does that occur? deputy minister; Grant Parnell, who is our assistant dep- Hon. S. Anton: I would note as well that sections (7) uty minister, business development division; James Mack, and (8), as I mentioned earlier, are both existing. Th ey the assistant deputy minister, agriculture science and were in the regulations before. Th ey've now been moved policy; and Shauna Brouwer, who is the assistant deputy into the legislation, so they are not new. minister, corporate services. Th e answer to the direct question is no. Th ere is not We'll probably have additional staff join as we go that form of bargaining that takes place. through the process, and I'll try to introduce them as they Noting the time, I move that the committee rise, report arrive. I remember in my previous estimates that some- progress and ask leave to sit again. times I wasn't the best at making all those introductions as we slogged through the process, but I'll try to do it. Motion approved. Th e staff , along with their teams of employees here in Victoria, in Abbotsford, in Kelowna and other locations Th e committee rose at 11:56 a.m. around the province work very, very hard every day to make sure that the agriculture sector is a success. Th e House resumed; Madame Speaker in the chair. As you know and as I know, the agriculture industry in British Columbia is a vital one, one that we're proud Committee of the Whole (Section B), having reported of and one that we want to continue to see succeed. My progress, was granted leave to sit again. background, both growing up and work before politics, was in the agriculture industry, working on behalf of Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported farmers and ranchers in British Columbia. I have a deep progress, was granted leave to sit again. passion for ensuring that we do continue to meet that success for the industry. Hon. T. Stone moved adjournment of the House. We've made a number of very signifi cant investments on behalf of the industry. We've seen the implementation Motion approved. of the carbon tax rebate for coloured fuels. We've recently opened up applications again for com- Madame Speaker: Th is House, at its rising, stands ad- mercial greenhouse growers to apply for the ongoing car- journed until 1:30 this aft ernoon. bon tax rebate program. We just recently cut the ribbon on a new centre of ex- Th e House adjourned at 11:57 a.m. cellence for agriculture at the University of the Fraser 3088 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

Valley, giving students the education and training they ferred the Agriculture Minister to be here. Just to say that need to meet the workforce demands in the growing we're thinking about him as well. agricultural economy. [1110] We are continuing to support increased competitive- Th ank you for being here in his stead. I'm sure that ness through the development of the annual tree fruit your experience and your knowledge of the sector will replant program. help you make up the answers — or fi nd the answers, I We've continued investments in projects under the should say. [Laughter.] federal-provincial Growing Forward 2 program, which Let me start, if we could, with issues around the will drive development in creating new products, new Agricultural Land Commission. I have a number of ques- processes, new markets and new jobs in the sector. tions around that commission. We've made important announcements through the The question I have is: has the Agricultural Land Buy Local program, giving the agrifood sector the fl ex- Commission been consulted on proposed changes to ibility they've asked for so that they can market their their role? products and grow British Columbia awareness of local food products. Th at includes things like an awareness Hon. S. Th omson: As we start on the process, I'm go- campaign for the B.C. Association of Farmers Markets, a ing to make a comment to start. Recognizing that this smartphone app that connects British Columbians with process is about the budget and the estimates of the local food options right to their doorsteps, and a We Ministry of Agriculture, we'll seek the Chair's guidance Heart Local campaign that the B.C. Agriculture Council about discussion around legislation that is before the is leading to get the word out about the good food British House. Columbians can access in their communities. My understanding is that legislation that is before the We've brought together a new minister's agriculture House is not the purview of the estimates process. I'll advisory committee, with membership from across the await that guidance as we go into the process. sector, to fi nd new ways to work collectively to grow the In specifi c response to the question, yes, staff met with industry. the commission during the core review process on oc- In 2013, B.C. exported $2.7 billion worth of agrifood casion to review information and have had a number of products to more than 140 countries, an increase of about follow-up discussions, as well, in terms of reviewing the $200 million from the year before. Exports to China con- information. So the process did include engagement with tinue to set records with $234 million in 2013, up $64 the commission. million from $170 million in 2012. Th e recently signed trade deals like CETA and the Canada-Korea free trade N. Simons: My questions are about the core review agreement also off er huge opportunities for the B.C. sea- process. I don't think the core review process has any- food and agriculture business. thing to do with the legislation before the House. If the We are committed to continuing to work collectively minister wants to draw the tie between what's happened with the industry to ensure farmers, ranchers, those in by the Minister Responsible for Core Review, then that's the seafood-processing business and the food-processing his prerogative, but my questions are about the ongoing business can succeed, focusing on developing a busi- operations of the Agricultural Land Commission. ness environment that supports innovation and com- As we move into this fi scal year and next fi scal year, I petitiveness. think it's important for us to know what communica- As I said, it's an industry that we're proud of. We're tion exists between the Ministry of Agriculture and the committed to working closely to take advantage of the Agricultural Land Commission. Th at's the basis of my opportunities for the industry. We look forward to that questions with respect to the ALC. continuing relationship with farmers, ranchers, agricul- When was the last time the Minister of Agriculture met tural associations and food processors — the whole value with the commissioner? chain across the industry. [1115] With those brief opening remarks, I look forward to comments and questions as we move through the esti- Hon. S. Th omson: As the member opposite knows — mates process. Th is is a very, very important sector and and we've talked already about the minister's health chal- industry for British Columbia. I look forward to the dis- lenges — the minister did meet with the commission late cussion. last year, before the challenges. Subsequent to him learn- ing about those challenges, subsequent meetings were N. Simons: Th ank you to the minister and to the staff carried out on behalf of the minister by the deputy and who are here. I look forward to this process as well. senior staff of the ministry. I can't help but echo my colleague's comments about wishing the Agriculture Minister all the best, and our Th e Chair: Before the member continues…. I will per- thoughts and prayers are with him as well. No disrespect mit questions related to ministry operations and general to the minister taking his place, but I would have pre- questions regarding the Agricultural Land Commission. Thursday, April 10, 2014 British Columbia Debates 3089

However, I feel that if the questions move to details of the Hon. S. Th omson: Yes, the ministry was, just as all Legislature, then I'll have to intervene. ministries are, in the core review process for their re- spective ministries, for issues and initiatives that are de- N. Simons: I don't think any indication so far has veloped through that process. given any suggestion that I will tread…. But I guess you know my reputation. Th ank you, hon. Chair, for the pre- N. Simons: Did the minister recommend that the emption. Agricultural Land Commission be a part of the core re- My question, to be more specifi c: did the minister meet view? with the chair of the Agricultural Land Commission? Hon. S. Th omson: It's important to understand that Hon. S. Th omson: As I indicated, yes, he did. the core review committee is a cabinet committee pro- cess, so to answer specifi c information about how de- N. Simons: My question is: how does the minister feel cisions come through that process would be breaking that the Agricultural Land Commission has been meet- that cabinet confi dentiality process. All ministers take ing its mandate? their ministries to…. Core review decisions are made by the committee. But in terms of the process, that would [Th e bells were rung.] be part of the cabinet confi dentiality process, and that question would be more appropriately addressed to the Th e Chair: Division has been called. I declare a recess. Minister Responsible for Core Review. [1135] Th e committee recessed from 11:17 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. N. Simons: My specific question is whether the [M. Dalton in the chair.] Minister of Agriculture recommended or approved of the decision that the Agricultural Land Commission be Hon. S. Th omson: Th e question was: how does the a part of the core review? minister think that the land commission is meeting its mandate? I think it's important to look back a little bit Hon. S. Th omson: As indicated, the decision process- over the last couple of years. In 2010 the chair of the es of how decisions are achieved and in what manner commission and the Auditor General published separ- through the core review committee is part of the confi - ate reports making a number of recommendations to dentiality process of cabinet committees. strengthen the agricultural land reserve, enhance its abil- Th at question would be more appropriately addressed ity to encourage agriculture. Based on that and the chair's to the Minister Responsible for Core Review. Th e out- report, legislative amendments were made that came into come of that process was that the commission was part eff ect in November. of…. A review and process was initiated as part of core In November 2011 we also announced approval of review, but the process around how those decisions are additional funding for the commission. In 2014-15 that made is part of the cabinet confi dentiality and more ap- amounts to a total of $1.5 million, and $1.417 million for propriately addressed to the Minister Responsible for 2015-16 to support the ALC to improve its administra- Core Review. tion, proactively deal with emerging issues. It continues to work on implementing those improvements. N. Simons: Does the minister believe that the In 2010 the Premier wrote to the minister outlining Agricultural Land Commission should have been part the expectations "to ensure that the ALC is delivering of the core review? on its improvements arising from the budget increase" that it received and "to ensure that the ALR is working Hon. S. Th omson: Th e core review process — I think for B.C. and to propose any changes necessary." Th e ex- it's important to point out — is about confi rming the pected outcomes are to ensure that the boundaries are structure, role of government; ensuring government is accurate, include land as capable, engage in long-term structured for success by looking at its delivery models; planning and to move away from being reactive and fo- looking at governance; looking at overlap and duplica- cussed on applications towards becoming a proactive tion; answering the fundamental question of who's in planning organization. the best position to deliver which programs and ser- Th e land commission is working with these additional vices and how. resources to meet those mandates, and in my view, the I think it is an appropriate process. It's one that…. As commission is doing well in meeting its mandate. I said, all ministers with their ministries — and agencies, boards, commissions, programs and services within their N. Simons: Was the Ministry of Agriculture involved ministries — are subject to that process. Decisions of the in the core review that made recommendations? Was the cabinet committee in which parts of ministries and gov- ministry involved in that process? ernment continue on through a core review process are 3090 British Columbia Debates Thursday, April 10, 2014

the decisions of the committee. But to say that was the decision, that it would be man- In this case, the core review is looking at how we can aged through that process…. Once that direction or de- assure that the Agricultural Land Commission continues cision was made, then the review and the development of to meet its mandate going forward and to look at how we options in order to meet that mandate were part of that continue to improve and modernize its operations. process, which led to the outcomes of the review process and legislation that's currently before the House. N. Simons: What the minister just said was essential- ly what the mandate letter requested of the Minister of N. Simons: What I think is at issue here is that the Agriculture. I'm just wondering: how do the two contra- Ministry of Agriculture was supportive of the changes dict each other? Or are they exactly the same thing? If so, recommended by the chair of the Agricultural Land why did the core review do what the mandate letter asked Commission, implementing changes that were recom- the Minister of Agriculture to do? mended by the Auditor General, and then out of left fi eld [1140] the Minister Responsible for Core Review comes barging into the picture and changes everything. Hon. S. Th omson: Again, the member opposite is What exactly did the Ministry of Agriculture ask to be correct in terms of the mandate that was provided to the changed with respect to the core review? minister for review. Th e core review process is one of the processes to look at that. As ministers go forward with Hon. S. Th omson: I'll take you back to the mandate their mandate letters, all aspects of operations in their letter. Th e mandate letter provided to the minister was: ministries are taken through that process to determine "Ensure the Agricultural Land Commission is delivering on whether that is the process that will help work through the improvements promised arising from the budget increase it received in balanced budget 2013. to meet the mandate. "Ensure the…land reserve is working for British Columbia and It is very similar to, if we want to use another ex- propose any changes necessary. Th ese changes must successfully ample…. If you look at a mandate letter, for example, balance our desire to protect valuable farmland while allowing for in the Ministry of Environment around Pacifi c Carbon responsible economic development opportunities. "Bring forward ALR changes that will further encourage the Trust, which was in the mandate letter. Th at was also stability of farm families and the farming industry in British taken through the core review process. So it's one of the Columbia." processes that helps assist in meeting the mandates pro- Th e process in carrying out that mandate, as I said ear- vided and ensures that the broader process of govern- lier, was that all ministries' operations and programs are ment provides input into assisting ministers in meeting reviewed through the core review process, and decisions the mandate. are made as to whether the process, in working with min- isters to meet their mandates, works through core review N. Simons: Essentially, what we have is a report from or in other ways. Th e process of working to address the the chair of the Agricultural Land Commission. We mandate was through that core review process. have an Auditor General's report. What was it that the How the decisions within the committee were made, as Minister for Core Review didn't trust about those reports I said, is part of cabinet confi dentiality more appropriate- that required this process to come back to be a part of the ly directed to the Minister Responsible for Core Review. core review? What were the things in their reports that But again, the core review is looking at how — and the the ministry didn't agree with and that required further mandate was looking at how — the ALC, ALR can help re-examination under core review? continue to grow the diverse agriculture sector, continue to protect farmland and at the same time better support Hon. S. Th omson: Again, it's important to recognize farm families and the growth of the agriculture sector. this process is one of the processes in terms of having the services and programs of ministries reviewed. Th ere is N. Simons: I've heard those lines before, and that's fi ne. nothing in the other reports that weren't trusted. In fact, I understand where the minister is coming from on that. those other reports helped focus decisions that had been Does the minister fundamentally believe in the in- made previously in terms of legislation and additional dependence of the Agricultural Land Commission? funding support. In terms of moving forward with the mandate that was Hon. S. Th omson: Fundamentally, yes, I do. Th e pro- provided, it was one of the processes. In terms of assisting cess as before — it has not changed that. the process, how those decisions are made, as I said, is a With that, noting the hour, hon. Chair, I move that the cabinet committee process and confi dential in terms of committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. how those decisions were made within the core review committee. Th at would be more appropriately addressed Motion approved. to the Minister Responsible for Core Review. [1145] Th e committee rose at 11:50 a.m. Hansard Reporting Services

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