Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 7 OCTOBER 1925

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions. [7 OCTOBER.] Questions. 1053

" 2. Mills in the Cairns district with a less favourable climate than Inkerman are C!.larging their storage capacity.''

SrFPLY oF R.ULW.\Y TR1;cr-;:s AT lKKERMAN MILL. Mr. COLLil'-'S (Bowcn) asked the Secre­ tar:Y for Railways- " 1. \Vas there a fqll supply of trucks available at the Inkerman Mill for the railing of sugar on 29th September last? "2. Did the mill management make full use of these trucks? " 3. \Vhat amount of sugar was railed from the Inkerman Mill in the last week of September? " 4. Could the Inkerman Mill manage­ ment have reduced the amount of sugar in storage at the Inkerman Mill and thus enabled the resumption of crushing to hav-e taken place by making use of the railway trucks that were available in the last week of September?" The SECRETARY FOR RAIL\VAYS (Hon. J. Larcombe, ]{ eppe/) replied- " 1. Yes. "2. No. "3. 595 tom. "4. Yes."

GovERN~IENT CoKTRIBunox TowARDS CosT or TESTING VALIDITY OF DEPORTATION ACT. Mr. SWAYKE (Jlirani) asked the Pre­ lnier- " 1. Is he joining with other State Governments in testing the validity of the Commonwealth Deportation Act? "2. If eo, from what fund or depart­ mental vote will the money for the pur­ pose be paid ? WEDNESDAY, 7 OCTOBER, 1925. "3. Will he inform the House as to \Vhat State rights are affect&d by the Commonwealth Deportation Act? " 4. Is not the \V alsh-J ohansen case The SPEAKER (Hon. \Y. Bertram, Maree) the only one at present affected by the took the chair at 10.30 a.m. Deportation Act? " 5. If successful in his attempt to upset the Deportation Act, will it net QUESTIO:\S. result in freeing Messr". \Valsh and STORAGE OF SuGAR AT I:-

wlicitor in any proceedings before tha " 4. Snch being the case, will he explain court or before a board,'- why the producer should not be allowed .. 1. Will he ask Mr. Justic0 Webb. the privilege of securing a living wage Pre~ident of the Arbitration Court, why, from the sale of his products?" as reported in yesterday's ' Daily Stan­ The PREMIER (Hon. W. ::'-i. Gillies, dard ' he suggested to Mr. H. D. Mae­ Frll'hrzm) replied- rossa'n or tho applicants in the hearjng " 1 to 4. The retail prices of bacon are of the dispute on the rotary questio:1 ftxcd b.v the Commissioner of Prices at that the committee ~ssistance of :1h. CLAYTON (Wide Bay) asked the counsel. Ho accordingly made the sugg·es­ Sccretat" for Railwavs- tion to both the employers and the " i. Is it a fact that durin;c last month Waterside \Yorkers' Union that both the management of the Mcount Bauple parties should consent to be represented Central Sugar Mill ordered urgently a. bv counsel. Immedio telv thr, rGprcsonta­ truck of tarpaulins to be forwarded to the tivc of the union took t'xception to mill and that on the arrival of the truck crmnsel appearing the court r<'fused to investigation proved it to contain hear him. It may be pointed out th~t tomatoes? the parties often consent to counsel "2. \Vi]] he have mquiry made as to appcrrring when technical po;nts arG >Yhethcr the tomatoe• depreciated in com­ involYed--c.g., the :Niount 11org·an case." n1crcinl value through transit; and, if so, have the owner duly compensated?" FIXATIOX OF PRICES OF BACON AND LIVING The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS \YAGE FOR PRIMARY PRODUCERS. (Hon. J. Larcombe, K C1J1J' I) replied- Mr. KI::'\G (Logan), for Mr. MOORE '' Inquiries are being 1nade.'' (A. ubi(fll'!), asked the Premier- " 1. In view of the facts '"' broadca·t by the Director of the Council of Agri­ DESTITUTION 01' BEERBURRUThl SOLDIER culture, showing that about one·third of SETTLERS, our agrirnlturists in arc :Mr. WARREN (Jlurmmba). without showing a loss. and about one-third are notice, asked the Secretary for Public 0arning onl~· about £3 per week, will he Lands- inforn1 the House at ,rhose instigation or on whose instruction did the Commi " Is he aware that there is a con­ si01wr of Prices take action with regard- of Prices (Mr. T. A. Ferry) at ls. per " If there is destitu~ion amongst any lb. for shoulders, ls. 5d. foe blade clacs of people in the community, they collar, streaky. and belly, ls. 6d. for must adopt the procedure ad')pted by cushion. and ls. 7d. for back. The every other section of th<' community whole-ale price of flitches has been fixed and apply to the Home Department for "t ls. 2d.' relief." " 2. As the Government have estab­ lished a 44-hour week for industrialists hv Act of Parliament, and have also fixed :M.IXBIUM V/AGES AND OVERTIME T'AID BY a baeic w"gc of £4 5s. a week by a RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. similar method, does he consider it equitable or fair that the producer­ Mr. VOWLES (Dalby), withou~ notice, who with his family arc working sixt:v csked the Secretary for Railways- or more hours a week, and have tc sell " Is he prepared to answer the follow­ their product on a market which affonlo ing question which I asked him on 25th them no protection whatever when prices September last- fall-should be subjected to interference \Vhat is the highest amount of wage& hv the Commissioner of Prices when (including oYertime) paid by the Rail­ prices show a slight rise? way Department in the months of " 3. Does he know that the Arbitration January, February, March, April, Court has decided that though a minimum May, June, and July of 1his year, wage is fixed by an award no employeo under the following employment :­ can be compelled to accept it, but is (a) Engine-drivers; (b) firem'en; (c) justified in securing as much more as hcl cleaners; (d) guards; (e) elerks; {f} can demand? conductors?" Papers. [7 OCTOBER.] .il-iotion for Adjournment. 1055

The SECRETARY FOR RATLWAYS !Hon . .J. Larcombe, Keppel) replied-

I Jarrnary.~~Y~~---~-,~priJ. I ::.ray. June. July.

£ s. d. £ s. d.

llll Driyers ------1 dJ 2: : 2: 2: d. 2~ :~ 18~ s~ d~ ;~ :r~: ]~ 28 17 9 Firemen 20 5 0 24 6 8 20 12 8 23 19 2 27 23 24 9 G

Cleaners 17 12 8 17 5 16 15 5 21 8 7 22 2 ~ 21 12 5 26 0 Guards 27 16 11 24 18 4 23 14 2 28 9 29 :J 31 11 2 28 7 I Conductms 18 18 2 23 18 2 23 11 6 17 8 6 27 16 3 27 14 11 W1 lG li

Clerks 23 10 4 21 8 20 2 20 ~ 20 0 22 13 10 28 3 6

" The percentage of cmploy0cs who PROPOSED MOTION FOR ADJOuR?\­ received heavy overtime compared with MENT. the total number employed is ,;mall. EFFECT OF INDUSTRIAL TROUBLE ON SUGAR " The traffic handled during thP period INDUSTRY. abovementioned was phenomenal and The SPEAKER: I have to announce that overtime was unavoidable. I have received the following lcttel' from " The opening through to Cairns ::\lr. E. B. Swayne, the hon. member for created a traffic that far exceeded 1\firani-- expectations, and the traffic in live si,ock " Parliament House, sugar, wheat, and maize was very heavy. " Brisbane, 6th October. 1925. The shipping strike resulted in addi­ " Dear ::VIr. B01·tram, tional traffic to the Railway Department. The cash receip~s for ihe seven months "In accordance with Standing Order in question "ere £838,228 in Rxcess of 1\ o. 137, I deeire to inform you that it the figures for the corresponding period is my intention (on \Vednesday, 7th Octo­ of the previous year, and the expendi­ ber) to move-' That this Huuse do now ture increase by £298,104-only 35.56 per adjourn.' lYiy reason for moving this cent. of the increased receipts. The motion is, that I desire to debate a increased train mileage was 422,203. definite ma·tter of urgent pub1ic impor­ tance as follows :- " Floods also resulted in additional overtime being incurred.'' " At the present time, despi"':e the efforts of the Arbitration Court, such a position of affairs exis·ts, that in some ESTDIATED CosT MmfDUBBERA-::l!J:ONTO, MANY instances it is impossible, and in others I'EAKS-::\10NTO, AND RANNES-:YlONTO RAIL­ nea,rJy so, to continue the harve,ting of WAYS. the sugar crop in . " This critical position broughc abom :'11r. CORSER (Burnett), without notice, bv industrial troubles connected with acked the Secre~ary for Railways- o~lr shipping, means ruin to a large " When may I expect a reply to the number of farmers growing cane in the following question which I asked the principal sugar districts of -our State, a,< hon. gentleman on Friday last?- through their inability to ship the raw 1. What is the estimated cost of each sugar the mills are closing down. The of the following railway>:-idundub­ insufferable difficulty of adequate finance bera-Monto, Many Peaks-Mon(,o, and is rendering the position desperate, The Rannes-Monto? position is so grave that the apathy and 2. What is the total expemhturP to indifference of the Government as date on each railway? regards the sugrr'l·-growers, is causing consternation and disgust throughout the 3. What is the amount apprnpriated sugar areas. for this financial year in each case?" "'I,he continuance of such a situation The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS is not only rendering daily irredeemable (Hon. .J. Larcombe, I{ eppel) replied- loss of national concern, but also will leo"d to immediate throwing out of work " 1. All available information, includ­ of a very large nu1nber of wag-e-earners. in(;' the Rannes-::\ifonto section, wa• sup­ The necessity of obtaining a satisfactory plied the hon. member on the 24th statement from the Government as t0 ultimo. what action it proposes to tah!-ancl of " 2. See No. 1. obtaining a thorough inves-tigatjonj so "3. Sec current year's loan estin1atcs, that effective remedial measures may be pageo 132 and 134." adopted-is so obvious that further reasons would be superfluous. '' Y.,.. ours sincerely, PAPERS. "E. B. SWAYXE. The following pap<>rs were laid on the " The Honourable the Speaker, table, and ordered to be printed:- "Legislative Assembly, Brisbane." Fifth Report on the Oreation, Inscrip· If the hon. member will refer to Standing tion, and Issue of Government In­ Order No. 307, he will see that the fourth scribed Stock. paragraph reads- Forty-first Report on the Creation, " On the days so al!ctt,ed for the busi­ Inscription, and Issue of Stock. ness of Supply no motion, other than a 10.56 Heavy Vehicles Bill. [ASSEMBLY.l Heavy Vehicles Bill.

motion declared to be ' formal,' shall be within the Rockhampton area, and that he taken until aftm· the consideration of did not know what became of the fees Supply, and no motion for adjournment which were collected. I understand that under Standing Order No. 307 ohall be something like £250,000 is collected in fees. entertained." and, if Rockhampton and other parts of For that reason, I cannot accept the motion. the Central district are not receiving their proportion, the Act is not being carried out. 1Ir. CORSER: With the permission of the The Act states distinctlv that one-third of House. it can be arranged. the board's revenue, including the total tax The SPEAKER : Order ! Order ! The on the whole of the oars in Queensland shall hon. membei' ought to know that under the go in equal proportions to the three divisions Standing Orders no motion for adjournment of the State. can be nccepted on a day allotted for Supply. The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS: You are just as far out now as the hon. member for Fitzroy. Sl~Sl'ENSION OF STANDING OB.DERS. :Vlr. CORSER : I may be out with regard APPROPRIATION BILL, No. 2. to the administration, but I am not out The TREASURER (Hon. W. N. Gillies, with regard to the Act. That is an unfair Eaclwm): I beg to move- provision, because the greater number of " That so much of the Standing Orders cars are held in and about the metropolitan be suspended as would otherwise prevent area in the Southern division, yet 'the the recAiving of Resolutions from Com­ greater part of the tax will go to the otlier mittees of Supply and Ways and Means parts of the State. on the same day on which they shall The PREMIER: At present that only applie; ha Ye passed in those Committees; and to loan money. the passing of an Appropriation Bill Mr. GORSER: The Act not only a unlit's to through all it3 stages in one da} ." loan money, but also to the tax on motor Question put and passed. vehicles and cars. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: You WATER BILL. are wrong. Mr. CORSER: It does not follow that INITIATION. because the hon. gentleman says so that I The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS am wrong. There are quite a number of '.Hon. \V. McCormack, Cairns): I beg to heavy vehicles that ca,n and should be !llOY(>- brought under some particula-r form of " 'l'hat the House will, at its next taxation. They certainly pay an amount >itting, resolve itself into a Committee of taxation to the Main Roads Board in of the Whole to consider of the desir­ the shape of registration fees. It might be ableness of introducing a Bill to declare claimed that the owners of these motor the law relating to rights in natural lorries pay for the upkrJBp of the ron,ds as waters; to make better provision for taxpayers, but it must be remembered that the construction, control, and manage­ the motor lorries secure the advantaw:e of ment of works of water conservation, the roads the more we· improve them. water supply, and drainage; and for vYhen our Railwav Department constructs its other purposes incidental thereto and railway tracks It has to pay for them consequent thereon.'' and find revenue sufficient to meet the huge Question put and passed. expenditure involved, yet even in Victoria, even though they may have to pav £100 for registration fees, n1otor driver3 ha\(~ at REA VY VEHICLES BILL. their disposal main roads which have cost IxnrATION IN CoMMITTEE--RESUi.IIPTION oF millions of pounds, and a consideraLlv DEBATE. greater mileage throughout the State' than we have here. In Queensland there are (Mr. Pollock, Greg01·y, in the chair.) only a few miles of good road here and :11r. CORSER (Burnett) : There seems to there. and some of them have cost the local be a desire on the part of some hon. mem­ authorities £6.000 a mile, and the local bers of the Government to infer that people are being taxed for their upkeep increased taxation might be levied on motor­ as well as for their construction. I contend <:·ars inasmuch as this traffic is doing more that it would be unfair to adopt the sugges­ harm to our roads than is done by heavier tion of hon. members opposite to increase the ,-ehicles. It must be known generallv to tax on motor-cars as well as taxing the hon. members that all motor-cars are taxed driYf\l'S. fairly heavily at the present time. and the Question put and passed. clrivGrs of such cars have to hold licenses 'The House resumed. ns wc-11. The CHAIR3' of the car has to pay a license fee. ";nd a hcense fee has a~so to be paid for " That the Bill be now read a first time." tllP (:ar. Perhaps that will soften the heart uf the hon. member for Fitzroy. The hon. Question put and passed. m('mber possibly was right when he claimed The second reading o£ the Bill was made !hat a certain number of cars were plying an Order of the Day for Tuesday next. [Jfr. Corse1·. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1057

SGPPLY. tion has been expended on those grounds. I would like i.he Minister to give some assur­ REST:li!PTIO:q OF COM!I!ITTEE-ELEVENTH AND ance that the work at the Eagle Junction TwELFTH ALLOTTED DAYS. school will be proceeded with. I understand (Jfr. Pollock, Orcr,ory, in the chair.) that plans have been prepared for wme time and I had hoped that tenders would have beer; DEPARTMENT OF PUBJ;,IC WORKS. called for ere this. The amount on the BLILDIXGS. Estimates for "General Repairs, Painting, Question stated- Improvements, and Incidentals " has been increa~ed from. £30,000 to £39,000. I hope " That £132.050 b€' granted for the Mmister wrll see that everything is done 'D~partment of Public Works-Build­ by the Government to push on speedily with ings.'" the work at Eagle Junction State school. 1\Ir. PETRIE (Tool,;/m/), who was received v.·ith cheers, said :-I notice that the amount Mr. HYNES (1'owns1·illc): I desire to i o be expended from revenue this year vmce. my approval of the new type of school for State school buildings has been increased bmldmg that has been adopted and is beino· from £49,000 to £60.000, and, I understand, erected by the \Vorks Department. During that there IS also an amount of £70 000 on the recess I had the opportunity of visiting the Loan .Estimates for a similar p'urpose. many of the now sdwols, and I could no-t l would like to ask the :Yiinister whether help contrasting the new type with the old. the amounts on the Estimates include anv­ rrhe De\V building is being erected With due thing for the rearrangement or alterati;n r"., .crd to the lighting arrangements. It io of the. schoo~ buildings at Eagle Junction. g 'ne rally conceded that many of the bad eve It IS a very Important school, and for some cases among school chil,dren in the past ha ~-e tune past we have been advocating the been due to the bad lighting of the schools. re~rrangement. m one building of those It is g;·atifying to know that this defect has Lmldmgs, whJCh are out of -date and hoen oy_errorne in the t:vpe of ne'v building~ tiivided. · now bemg erected. The ventilation of the buildings ha, aho !JCen improved considC'r­ , I would lik<;> to know if anything has been Townsville. 'I might ,tate for that there are plenty of calls on th~ Govern­ the mformatwn of the Committee that this is the only Class I. school ou tP no excuse that thev are not being suffici­ ;·ntl". educ.ated. For some yean past school rrwnt.. The estirnate is a comprehensive one, nut!dmgs .m the cou:ntry have been neglected and sets out the total cost of the system at eyd sufficient ~ttenbon ha~ not heen paid to £540. We were able to prove fairlv con­ tne school ~mldmgs requll'ed in the larger clusively that, apart from the hygienic 'aspect r··ntres and m the metropolitan area. I quite of the syst~m and the benefit it woul,d confer realise that the cost of construction has in­ it would be a good financial proposition fo1: c;·eased considerably, and it would be advis­ the Works Department to adopt. \Ye were n.lllo for this Government or any futnr•J also able to prove that the saving of rates (,overnment to provide a special loan fo1· alone in three vears would cover the cost of school bnilding purposes. The money could installing the "system. I was partirularlv l •e expended on the erection of new schools. busy with. the Minister's predecessor. and he and the rem?delling and repairing of the agreed with me that the department should present bmldmgs. There is never sufficient make a. start in installing the septic-tank money provided on the Estimates from eithPr sc·srem m the larger schools. On going into the :·evcnue or the loan fund to meet the the matter I find that there are seven Class reqmremenb for school buildings. In the I. school•· in the State, and that of these six past we have. had g1:ants of ground, but arc in the metropolitan area. In the near nnfortunatcly m many mstances in the metro­ future these six will be served bv the r·n,Jtan area the areas were quite small and sewage system. I have suggested t.o the ~:ow ":e desire increased playground accom­ Minister and the under Secretarv for Public modatiOn. \Vorks that provision should he n1ade on the , The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: That is Estimates this year to install the septic-tank tne case at Eagle Junction. system at the only other Class I. school out­ side the metropolitan area which will not l\Ir. PETRIE: !'_es. T would like every be served _by the smvage system-that is. as hOJo. member to VISit the modern school at I have eard, ihe WPst End school. Towns­ "\

improw,d conditions for the public senants An OPPOSITION MKllBER : The " left wing ,. ''vorking not on1v in mv electorate but in i' to be blamed. otlwr Northern tcO\Yns. "r. refer particularly to the lnck of cooling arrangements in the Mr. DEACO::";: The :::Vlinister should stand various offices. Electric fans should be up to the " loft wing " and point out the installed w]Jcrc <'lectric current is available. sheer stupidity• of such action. The GO\·ern­ Wo have a very fine electric-power system in ment say they are trying to raise the Towmyille. and electric fans could be in­ standard of the school teacher and that they ,·t.:dlccl in the public offices without any gr0a! have increased his wages, but what about the question of school teachers' residences? Surely cost to tlw dcnartmPnt. It would make for tlwy should be given residences equal to a ~·" Y8Rt in:lproYPmt:nt in the condition~ under workman's residence! I know of buildings which pnblic "-PrY,tnts arP. ncny \Yorking. I allotted to school teachers that are not fit hopf' thnt tlH' ~1in1~ter will takp notic{\ of my to be inhabited by any decent man. The lTqu;st. lY'rau~C' the CXl1P~~diturc involv-ed is very cnLll and the benefit to the public Go.-ernment should realise how lacking the:c are in this matter and make some a tternpt S('f\~tlnb \VOtdd ht' YC'l'Y great. to rectify it. Mr. DEACON (Cunninqham.): I am afraid The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LAXDS : You arc that the Minister has fallen down on his job. coming out of your shell lately. Th' SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS: That ::\Ir. DEACON: What ic the :\Iinist-er there is the most unkind thing you have said since for if he will not do his job ? There is only you came into this Chamber. an increase of £9,000 provided for "General Mr. DEACOX: I sav it in the endeavour Repairs, Painting, Improyements, ancl to keep the 2\l[inister tlp to his job. and I Incidentals." Although '"e know that in the 'hall point out what the hon. gentleman pasl- only half the amount required for this has fail0d to do. It is the duty of the ptuy,o;c \vas voted we arc onL asked to hon. gentleman to see that his department is ;; rant a small increase of £9,000. The granted sufficient money to carry out the arnonnt asked for is not sufficient. to keep llf'C'CPsa ry work. the public buildings up to date. let alone to overtake anears. Thcs0 things have to be [11 a.m.] faced. 'yc cannot allow arrears to get behind Hon. T. DUNSTAN: Do you want him to be any further than they are now. They are a burglar? far enoug-h behind. \Yhat is the Minister Mr. DEACO:\': I do not, but I direct doing t.o allo1v arrears to increa:::e the \Ya.y a tt<>ntion to the ·damage t.ha t is being done they are doing'! Owing to the lack of to the public Pstate through the neglect of enf!icicnt funds repairs have been too long school buildings. It is not economy or good delayed in the past. \Ve all g-et notices policy for any Govemment to neglect build­ rPading "Repair. have been passed for ings and to allow them to go to ruin. The approval." and then we go on for six months Minister knows that is occurring. ~nd sometimes till the next year and nothing The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \'\' ORKS : \Vhere? 1q done. That goes on continually. It seem3 to me that the Home SE'cretarv is not back­ Mr. DEACON : I will give the hon. gentle­ ing up the St>cretary for Public \Vorks in man an instance. Ho has onlv to ask anv the way he ongh! to do. The Home Secre­ hon. member to be given instances in <'very tar~- lcnows verv well the need for further electorate. while. if he v alked round Bris­ expenditure on )-mblic buildings. I will give bane, he \Yould see many insta nccs of dan1age one instanc0 of delay. I was notified a year occasioned by negl0ct. and also many ago that approval had been given for the instances of over-crowd0d schools. \V c know Prcdion of a rural school. The present school verY wdl that in manv cases the first cost building- is ovn-crowdcd b-, reason of a to the \Vorks Department is too much and rmal school b0ing- <'stablishcd t-here as the~: a sufficient amount is not provided to enable are making- mo of the ordinarY school build­ the job to be carried out. \Ve know that ing. ..Approval was given a~ year ago to jol' cost too .much because thll depart­ 0rect a new building. but the work has not mf'nt. has to go hack to thetn. Things are been rom!ncnced yet. being done now that should have been done Tlw SECRET.\RY FOR PrBLIC \VORKS: Where? ten y0ars ag·o, and that state of affairs has existed for many years. I aliow a certain :\h. DEACOX: At Clifton. This work amount of latitude for the war period; but ought to have been done long ago. There since that time no serious effort has been should not be so long a defay in such a made to remedy matters. The vote on behalf matter as that. Although the Depart-ment of the Education D<>partment has been of Public Works sav•; that the work is incr<:'ased by only £11,000, and any hon. necessary nothing is done. I may be told member knows that is not sufficient to bring that it is g-oing to be done now, but why the buildings up-to-date. I know that that the long dela"·? The Minister should get up an,onnt. could b<' sn members of some conwrit· srmply because the Government do not face tees ma~y not do the work themselves. i hey the position. We knmc that a cc'rtain amount have funds in hand to pa,,· for the work. The of money is required and therefore the Go­ r·::sult has bet•n '!:hat, in many instances, vernment keep putting off from t-ime to time; ~~dYnnt8ge has bC'cn taken of the sy'ltcm but this state of things cannot go on for If it had been insisted that the Depdrt­ long. I hope the Minist0r will take notice mont of Public \Vorks should supply not of the matters which I have brought up, on]., the material but also the labour, many and that he will be able k> got more efficient a. job would not have been don<:. because it \\ark done by his departm('nt in this dircc­ is most unprofitable for the department to tiDn than is being done at tho prc~0nt tirne. have to st:'nd workmen 300 miles to do a ~mall piecn of work if it is pc'siblo to get labour ~Ir. vVINSTA~LEY (Queenton): The hon. on the spot. In quite a nurnbcr of 1nstancc:s member for Cunning-ham thinks that his work .:chool eoln?nittces hase taken the respol-'-:;l­ is to find fault and tell other people what thov bi1it~v of seeing that the work was done ought to do. I can imagine that is what he dTE'ctivPlv, of course subject to the sup•I'· does when he goes round his fann to ~uper­ ,-i,ion of the departmental ins,Joctor wher,J vise the rnen \vho are working for hin1. necccsary. and the consequence has been that J\Jr. DEACO:>r: I work on the farm my,clf. theY hnse got their job:;; done vcr_,- satis­ factorily. I think that is a fair proposition, Mr. WI~ST \;\;LEY: 1t is amv,ing to heat and in quite a nun1be:r of instances loctd hon. members opposite grumbling about theF orgnni~ation~ arc prt:'pared to do ~omething ,Jf not being enough money on the Estimates to this kind-in :;:orne in:::t.'lTICf-'~ t.o do a Y :-1'.\ enable these things to b,, done, when thos · g-reat dee!-but at any rate somPthing to hon. members are always grumbling about the help the department along in that direction. extravagance of the Government. "!\fr. DEACON: The Government have th,·own 'Tht'rc is sorne difficultv in connection away £1.000,000 on State .·tations. ~--ith sotne of nJf'nt i:.., p1aced in a rather invidious position. 1nnncv rai-.::cd in taxation shouicl be spr?nr, Rd1ool bnilc11ngs. for in~tnnc,c. arc approved probably things would be quite different; but cif b_,. the Department of Public Instruction, they have not the say, and are not likclv "n'.l tho11 the matter ie hand0tl over to the to have it. At the prosPnt time this Gowtrl· 1), nartmcnt. of Public \Vorks, and. if that mr-nt ha.ve the sa--;;· and are raisinrr funds clcpartmcnt has not the money nt its disposal, and I think that, on the whole thev ar~ it. rtnnot rnn~tl·urt them. In th~n, connection spending them fairly equitably a'nd reason­ •omctimr;:.; diffif'n!tics arise which 1nean rath~'"'r ably. lon;::· debc··. The DepartmPnt. of Pnbli~ '\V orks has on hanr! for the coming y-ear I ~esirc to express my appreciation of tho offimals of the Depal'tment of Public Works several propositiom in eledoratcs in which I am interested-that is to say, if thev aro not for their kindness and considf'r _~tion in con­ nection with anv requests ·which I have made actually in m:\ electorate, my constituents from time to time. -While I havil not bv an'' woulr! bencfit bv them. I refer to the means got all I wanted, I have got a fair Mate1·nitv Home ·at , and the share. There arc a number of thing-s that I Babv Clinic there in particular: but in this r!id not get the first time I asked for them. connection the Department of Public \V arks hac not to find thP money. The Home Dcpart­ )Ty experience of th" d~epartment remind,,. me of the judge spoken of in the Bible. " who rncnt is rP~ponsible for that. and so soon as n0ither feared God nor regarded man," but the Department of Public Works is in a who _was afraid that,. if i;nportunat.e persons position to get those jobs going. money ''"ill contmually came to lnm, 1t would worry him. be available. In addition to these worb. there is the Old People's Home at Charter.< 'ThPre is something like that in connection Towers. which I mentioned on the Estimate'! with Government departments. If we tak' " No" for an answer, that will be the owl of the Home Department. I am quite sure of it. We have to repeat our request•, until that the Home Department is quite prepared they are granted. My requests for my electo­ to finance it to a c

From time to time there is a good deal of that the selectors shall do the work. The grumbling about the actual cost of the build­ selecton in doing that work were referred ings which are put up by the Department of to the other da v as " scab " workm-en. If Public VV~orks. I do not know whv it >-hould ... ,vin1111ing pondS aro proYided in the city he so. but the department puts ;,; fir,t-class hv means of money· subscribed by the public. material and first-class workmanship. so that I am pl<'ased to know it. Before the elec­ its buildings are really models for anybody torate of Pittsworth disappeared under the to copy; but sometimes people who are redistribution scheme, l\fr. Cecil Roberts was acquainted with building >vork by makin:; a constant advocate for proper schooling <'Omparisons come to the ('Onclusion that its accommodation at 11ilmer~an, in the Dalby buildings are a bit more costly than they dist rirt. I was present w1th :Mr. Huxham. ,,,ght to he. I do not know whv it should be the ex-Sccrctarv for Public Instruction, when '"· and it is just as well that the department that school was' opened. It had taken seYeral ,;hould make some inquiries into the facts­ yearc' to get it there. but. instead of building i-,Pcausc I believe it is a fact-and see 'vhetlv:•r a new school, _an old school was remo.-ed -it: canr•ot vvork somcvvhere on the same leYel from some other place and sent to the J',1il­ as t:) cost as other people. lnerran township. I think that some of the buildings put up l\Ir. DEACOx: It was stolen from Spring­ h,· the Department of Public Works in tlw vale. tropical part of the State especially-and I think on this point I am in agreement with l\Ir. YO\YLES: It was quite clear to eYery­ 1h.._.., hon. 1nembPr who has just resurrwd hi3 bod~~ tint e.-en then the floor space was ,,·&t--are a bit stinted as to .-eranda gpace. tCJtally inadequate for the number of children I hnv(' in my mind's eve a school residencP­ attending·. I haw not visited the place a nice cottage and weli built. with a veranda rec·'utly. but on speaking to a member of C•P the front but none at the back. Bdorc thP school committee last Monday he told mid-dav the sun begins to shine on the back. me that. .,~hereas the flooring capacity is particularly on the kitchen. and then beah sufficient for fortv children, there are ninety~ on the back part of the house the whole four children on' the roll, and nothing has afternoon, so that it cannot be very congenial been don·e to increase the accommodation. m ]:lca,ant for those who have to li.-e in it. Tlw chilclrcu ha.-e to go on the verandas. under the school. and out in the yard, and [ rrm qutt>• su1·e that the matters I ha.-e that is a scandalous state of affairs in a 1nentioned are worthy of consideration. and district where the thermometer registers t;1at the department will ~i,-e to them the probabl~- 115 -clegTees in the shade in the attf'Etion they dcserYc. o ::.un11ner tiniC' and registers a very low tem­ :\lr. VOViTLES (Da/l;.'f): I congratulate JWratnre in the winter time. These children tlw Department of Public \Vorb on taking· haYP to ~uffer that inconvenience m·erelv notice of what I said on the last occasiort lwcause of r he fact that they are living in the when this vote \Vas under discu3sion. I couPtry. The policy of the Government is pointed out that t\w Go.-ernnwnt buildings lop.sided. The people in the city are far at Dalbv had not been painted for ten yearg. better fitted than the unfortunate selecton As a result of those remarks the school. police in the backblocks tu find the necessary money qua1·ters. and seYcral other Govern1nent for arlrlitional accommodation. Many men buildings have since been painted. Year htn-e left the countrv because their children after year one finds money la ,-ishly expen-ded could not obtain educational facilities and on up-to-date .•chool buil·dings in the citv. because the.- .-alned the children's prospects \Ye complain that the pe0ple in the count;,. in the futm:e as deri,·ed from education at a are not being catered for bv the department. higher ndue than their own prospects in T~ere seems to be a certain amount of jug­ making· the~ land pay. That is the reason in _,;dmg ben,-een the Department of Public p;•rt fm_· the exodus from ·the country, and Instruction and the Dep.ntment of Public the Department of Public Instruction and \Vorks, and one blames the other, and we the Department of Pqblic vVorks are respon­ get Yery liitle satisfaction. It has a vcrv sib'e in manv instances bv not providing the :mpleasant effect on people who ha.-e gon'e necc"ar~· ed-ucational fadlities. wto the backblocks and ha.-e r·emained :.\fr. F. A. COOPER (Bremed: I desire to there for m.any years-in sonw ca5C'''· twont,· m·imming ponds. etc. of benefi' to the health of the children. Some The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \Y ORKS : TheY t-ime ago the head teacher of the Blair State are not provided by the Department of sch,ol complained that he believed the men Public ·works. The people paY for their own attending to the sanitary service were doing ~wlmming ponds. · >Yhat is known as dumping. That is, they . A GoYERXMEN! l\1E~IBER: They are pro­ ,,-ere emptying from one pan to another and ndcd by enthusrasbc school committees. returning some of the dirty pans to the school closet-s. The health inspector of the Mr. VO\\'LES: It is a pleasure to know Ipswich Council stoutly denied the charge, that th0,. pay for somethin~ in the citv. and the school teacher did not parsue the I would lik<' hon. members to~ compare what cha·rge because he believed " dumping " obtains in the city with what obtains in the meant throwing nightsoil on the adjacent countrv. If the selectors in some rPmotP land. I believe that the head master of the place de,ire a school building thev are bound Blair school was justified in making his tn find the labour or some material. and. if complaint., and that something was done in the ·denartment is gracious enough to sunnlv connection with the sanitary arrangements a portion of the material, there is a condition that was far from proper. There is a sure [Mr. Winstanley. Supply. [7 OcTOBER.] Supply. 106]' way of overcoming this trouble. and that is would be of bPnefir. to the department and by installing septic tanks. It is regrettable greatlv to the be1wfit of the schools. If the that men in charge of t-he health of the citv ~1inister attends to the matters I have by their action should prejudice the health meLtioned, he will have the thanks of tho of the children. whole of the parents, not only of Ipswich but of the adjoining electorates, who will benefit I would suggest to the Minister that he greatly by placing a gang of the Works should place in Ipswich a gang of men Department in Ipswich to attend to the connected with the Department of Public schools. I was at the Brassall State school the Works. It may not be necessary to have other day, and saw a breakaway in eonnec­ that gang stationed there permanently, but uon with a wash-hand basin. Had it been there are in the Ipswich district sufficient attended to immedia tel v the cost would have· school buildings to pay the department been neglig"ible, but, as it is, bv handsomely to put on a gang of workmen in [11.30 a.m.] the t-ime the Works Department Ipswich t-o do all necessary repairs, and thus is called upon to att-end to the obviate paying to gangs sent from the matter and actually carry out the repairs it metropolitan district the allowances given will cost £10. or :?15. If a gang were placed to men when away from home and for travel­ 111 the nc·tmty 1t would save the depart­ ling time. ment many pounds of expenditure. I believe There are many minor repairs in connec­ our Department of Public \Vorks is a good" tion with the school buildings in Ipswich department-, but it is hampered in many and the district that ought to be done, other­ \vays that tend to make the work more wise they will get into such a condition that expensive than it should be. It is not the it means a big· job later on. The Blair fault of the department but the fault of the· State school is one of the best schools in peculiar system under which it labours. the district from every standpoint. It ranks li1AXWELL: Yes-the day-labour system. with all the good schools in the district, but :\h. at the present time it is in need of a number ='>h. F. A. COOPER: 1\'o. The hon. mem­ of minor repairs which ought to be done ber is continually harping on the day-labour immediately. There is a grmving inclina­ system. but he would not for the life of him tion on the part- of the department to force givo out any little contract, as he carries out school committees to do as much as thev all his work on the day-labour system. ca.n, including many works which should be undertaken by the department and which The CHAIR:MA?\: Order! are too big for the committee. The com­ ::'.Ir. F. A. COOPER: The Department of mittee at the Blair Stat-e school is anxious Public \Yorks does good and efficient work, to lay down a cricket pitch for the boys. and, if it- could get away from the hamper­ Unfortunately, the lie of the land is such ing conditions under \vhich it now labours, that the drainage runs across it and would 1ts work \vould be even more effective and destroy any cricket pit-ch that was put down. it could do more work than it is doi;tg at The school committee cannot see its wav to 1n·e~ent. expend £25 or £30 on work which would be destroyed with the summer storms. The :'.Ir. :\IAXWELL (Toowony): While I department might overcome this trouble bv admit that the Department of Public \Yorks att-ending to the drainage. Though I am not does splendid work to a certain extent, I do sure that it is the proper function of the !lOt· want to convey the impression that they department to e":pend £10 in drainage simply arc• the on!: people who build model build­ to save the cncke"O pitch of the school. ings in Queen~la11d. VVe have some very fine the department ought to consider requests \varehouses and other buildings both inside of the school committee. It has for vears and outside of the metropolitan area. The been making reque,;t;; to have the drainage pity to me is that, when we have these model properly. attended to to save the playground buildings . erected by the department, they from bcmg dest-ro:vecl, and to make it of are practically spoilE'd through a "penny­ benefit to the children. That. surely. is the \nse and pound-foolish" policy. Let- me duty of the depltrtment. I know that the draw attention to the Queensland Radio· matter of repairs to school buildings is one Station. The State Insurance building is OY<'r which school committees worrv the o't:' of the finest buildings in the Common­ department considerably, though I must say \\"011\th. It is plain and solid. but still a that the school committees in mv electorate bea_utiful building. The Government, in are wonderfully forbearing in that regard. then \Yisdom or ot-herwise, have decided that They are mo,tJy composed of tradesmen who the:; \Yill build the radio station on the top­ know when and what work ought to be clone, of this building. By doing so they did what and conBc;quently do not make requests in the Government are nearly always cloing­ excess of the actual requirements of the tl1cv broke the by-laws of t-he City of Bris­ schools. Unfortunately, one of t.hf' big bane. They are continually blaming alder­ schools in my electorate-the ?\orth Ipswich nwn for not doing things according to the school for gnls and bovs-is situated on a Act. but they themselves are continually very splmclicl site so fai· as position is con­ breaking our by-lawB. The Government can :ernecl. but it is on a gravelly ridge which clo no wrong, and are privileged to do these " not to the best advantage of the knee; of things. Any builder or a man in the trade the yout-hs. The school committee has gone like mvself has onlv to look at that build­ to considerable trouble to remedy that. It ing to ;-ealise what- has been done. A beauti­ has prepared a tennis court, cricket pitch, ful building is being spoiled bv the erection basket-bull ground, and various other things of a wood0n and fibro-cement framework of that description for the benefit of the being superimpoced on the structurf'. As children. The department ought to help we e'>nstructed a beautiful building we should the committee if it possibiv can to see that have proceeded with the radio job on the the drainage across that "ground does not­ sam" lines. If a thin!l" is worth doing, it is destroy tho good wot·k whi:>h has been done. worth doing well. We should have made a I earnestly entreat the attention of the ,-ood job of the radio station, and law-mnkeB Minister to these matters, as I believe they should not be law-breakers. Jlr. Maxwcll.] lQ62 Supply. [_\SSE::YIBL Y.] Suppiy.

:\Iy friend, the hon. member for Bremer, of the district raise the money for the took exception to a statement I made in beautification of the school grounds and incul­ een taken 'up, it has almost arrived at s"hool buildings-improvements t'! grDunds. the stage when the price is prohibitive. I claim that it is not the functwn of the \Vhen a place has become thickly settled parents to do that work, but the function of and the time has arrived for securing a site 1 he department. If the Minister has not for a school building, a difficulty has arisen. sufficic nt monev to carry out the improve­ 'Ibere is land there now, and I do hope the mPnts to school buildings, he should ask for department will try to •ecure a site for a "xtra money to enable that to be dDnc. If echool building there as early as possible. Parliament will not grant the mDney, then The department has been very good in send­ hon. members have onlv themselves to blamf'. ing out its officers to gD round the district I might refer to the' fact that there is a with a view to finding the most suitable site, vcrv cnerO'etic committee in connection with and a IDeal committee has been raising funds the' Tomv;ng Sta to school. Men and women for the purpose of assisting in the purchase have been working hard for months in order of a site. \Yhen I interviewed Mr. Huxham, to impmve the grounds, and they ha~e rai~ed the late Secretary for Public Instruction, Dn something like £500. That money IS bemg one Dccasion, h,, said. " If I can get a spent in the improvement of the grounds, guarantee from the people there that they because it is realised-- are sincere by backing it up with a certain amount of moncv, I shall do mY level best The CHAIRMAN: Order ! to have a school 'built the,re." Mr. Huxham :l\Ir. ~IAXWELL; Very well, I will not was raised to a higher sphere of activity, touch Dn the school grounds now. I will and the control of the department was trans­ deal with buil,dings now. and reserve the ferred to J'\Ir. Brennan, who ex,pressed the right of addressing myself to the questwn opinion that it was abwlutely essential that of school grounds when we come to the a school should be built. It is essential Ktimates of the Department of Public when you consider that in Taringa, Toowong, Instruction. and Rosalic the schools are overcrowded. It would be better for the Government to make I broug·ht up a couple of sessions ago the up thei'l· minds to build a decent school in matter D-f the Taringa State school. I am 1he Auchenflower district than to spend money glad that the GDvernment have at last seen in extending- the schoDls I have mentioned. the desirability of curying out repairs and painting on that building. I wont to thank I want to deal with the remarks of tRe the Minister for having that matter attended hon. member for Dalby. who pointed DUt the to. But, if I may be permitted as a trades­ injustice that existed in some country dis­ n1an to giv,c tho ~,iinis1 er or his officers a tricts. As a city representative, I do not little advice, I hope that they will not adopt stand for that. If there is any concession at the method which was preYionsly adopted in all to be given, it should be given to the connection with the pai ting Df that school. people who are doing the pioneering. It is now costin,; about £150 more than it The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC 'WoRKS: It should h;"ve do1w owing to there having -ahva:vs IS. been previously adDptcd a oys.tem of mixing lead and zin-J. As a result the whole of the 2\Ir. :YJAXWELL: I say undoubtedly that paint has era< ked in such a wa'" that bef'!re it ,hould be. I can quite understand the anv of the wol'k nn be shrted the old pamt attitude tak<'n up by the hon. member for will have to be -burnt off. From practical Dalby when he pointed out that certain 'experience I say that. if white lead '!'':d zinc wonde'l·ful imprDvements, in the shape of are mixed. there will b., a repetltlon of ""imming pools, garden plots, and other what hanpened before. I also say if zinc things, were effected in and around city is placed' on a white-lead base the r'esult will BchDols; but, when the parents and citizens be disash·ous. I hope the department will [Mr. JJ:Iaxwell. Supply. [7 OcTOBER.] S~tpply. 1063 not be led away by the ideas of faddists, but particularly to the Morningside. Hav:· .,-ill pay attention to advice given IAl it by thorne, and );fount Bruce areas. These tH·actical n1en. aree.s are being rapidly settled. anJ I want to thank the Home Secretary for ther<_, is a large number of ehildren in taki11g my advice in connection \\·ith the tlwm who hav·e either to cross the rin•r to purchase of a police station in r:roov~·ong, the city schools or walk to the Bulimba which I think is a very wise step. The school. In tlw last year a very fine Government sho!lld adopt that practice site has been secure·d for the l\1orningside throughout Que.en,]and. They should secure schooL and it onl,- remains for the Depart­ their own buildings and not rent them. Not ment of Public \\' orks to get a mm··e on and only is it a proper policy to adopt, but it erect a schooL I also want to sav a word pre-y;,;nts continual interference with the men or two cm behalf of a school at :\fount Bruce. >tationed in the various localities. I hope This is a beautiful district, which is also that t 11e ;'.iinister will take steps to place settling verv rapidlv. It. is fairlv clo'C to on the Estimates the money for the building Coorparoo, but the hon. member for Logan of a school at Auchenflower, and I am more will no doubt hcartilv endorse mv remcukc; than pleased that he has decided to go on that the Coorparoo school is alre~dy badly v·ith the repair~ and painting in con1:cction overcrowrlecL although a new wing has been \Yith the school at Taringa. erected during the last twelve months, cons.­ quently therp is a very urgent need for the :\1r. WRIGHT (Bu'imba): I should like <'stablishment of a school at :\'lount Bruce. to contradict the statPment of the hon. mem· The Government have a Ycrv fine reserYe bcr for Dalbv that cin· electorates are more there comprising from 15 to '20 acres in a fortunate in~ getting i1ew schools or school bPautiful po,ition. It is one of the best improvements than country electorates. sit•' for the purpose in the metropolitan arc\. I hope the departmpnt will mak-• the· The SECRE'rARY FOR PrBLIC \YORKS: That matter an urgent ono-it is an urgent onfl­ has been disproved m·cry year on the bcc,lusp the Coorparoo school is so ovor­ Estimates. crowdccL If this work is carriPcl out, it Mr. \VRIGHT: It is not onlv in the c:>un­ will uiY'' a good deal of relief to that school tr..- that there is a lack of af'co;nmodation in and will be a vpn· 'in(' asset to the State tlie State schools. I have several schools in and a benefit to the people rapidly settling mv electorate which are considerablv over· m that quarter. crowded and sevel';ll cases where new" schools I desire to bring under the notice of the arc required, and it is necessary that early Minister the question of the erection of a eteps should be taken to improve matters. police station in the Coorpat:oo district. At I endorse the remarks of the hon. member for the present time the police a-re uncomfortablv Townsvillc as to the advisability of installing housed in rented quarters at Stone's Cornet:. septtc systems in our State schools. In some I would Jik,o th0 department to sec its way parts of the metropolitan ar·ea, of course, it clear to place sufficient monev on the Esti­ "·ill not be long before they are connected mates this year for that work. \Yith the ordinary se·werage system, but in The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC "WORKS: \Vhere ·the majoritv of the schools in my electo­ do you suggest the building should be rate it will be manv ,-ears before there is erected? any possibility of that being done, and I Mr. WRIGHT: On the land owned by the hope that the several requests I have made Police DPnartment at the present time in to the department in this respect will receive CCoorparoo. It is more centrallv situated, awi favourable consideration. is a more convenient place for." the control of The hon. member for Toowong referred to th" dietrict than the present station. the fact that the department has not always I haYe vPry few complaints to make on reserved or obt-ained suitable sites for schools. this vote. The department has carried out I endorse his remarks, and I refer particu· a number of improvements in my electorate, larly to a claim I have made for a school at but there are still very necessary Improve­ ::'.Iurarrie. This is a district which is being ments to be effected. I recognise that the rapidly settled. It includes several large department is carrying out a very difficult industrial concerns, and population is increas­ task. and hon. members should be prepared in.,- there very quickly indeed. In the course to b0ar somewhat with the ::'.1inister in his of a few vears it will be absolutelv nec

the asset ~o what it. was originaily, anJ The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: If you· how much 1s for cap1tal expenditure. The provide me with £500,000, I will provide £60,000 for additions and improvements, etc., you with everything you want. · to State school buildings, £10,000 for addi­ tions and improvements to court houses and Mr. KELSO: The Minister cannot see the police buildings, and £7,000 fm additions to point. technical college and high school buildings The CHAIRMAN : Order ! Order ! 1 are ~ot very big figures, but I hold that a would advise the hon. member not to stre~c cert.am portion .of that expenditure is really that point. cap1tal expenditure and should come out Mr. KELP,O: I know that I am on the of loan money and not out of revenue. If danger line, and I will not stress the point, it were to come out of loan funds, it would but that attitude of the department does enable a larger amount to be spent on neces· seem peculiar to me. sary schools outback. Metropolitan members, as a whole, are not selfish. They recognise The CHAIRMAN : Orde·r ! Order ! A very the great demand fm· school accommodation obJectionable habit is becoming prevalent in the West and in the North, and, among hon. members of attempting to get notwithstanding the statement made by the in something after they are advised by the hon. member for D~lby, I am perfectly cer· Chairman that they cannot do so. If in the tam that metropohtan members recognise future any hon. member endeavours to do that growing ;md isolated districts should this after being called to order, he may haYe their fair share of attention. They are find himself asked to discontinue his speech. not selfish in that respect. The growing Mr. KELSO: Mention has been made by demands of the children cannot be put off the hon. member for Townsville of the septic and whatever is nece,sary in the way of tank system. The hon. member stressed increased educational facilities must be p·ro­ rathe·r strongly the installation of the septic vided, and should be provided out of loan tank system at the \Vest End State school, money. A proper system could be laid down Townsville, which he said was the only Class whereby the money expended out of loan I. school outside the metropolitan area. I could be repaid by instalments on a basis support the remarks of those hon. members 'imilar to what we now provide in connection who spoke subsequent to the hon. member \vith some of our loans. 'I'he life of a school and urged that this system should be installed could be put down at fifty years; for a in the more closely congested districts. of wooden building properly kept and painted it Brisbane. If it is necessary at Townsv1lle, is at least' fift-y years. No hon. member would it is all the more necessary in the closely object to the additional expenditure of loan congested districts around Brisbane. It money in order to provide facilities for the would be a godsend to have a septic tank at education of the childrf'n. Hon. members the school in my electorate. In the laborious also recognise that this is a matter which manner in which the Metropohtan Water and if df'layed, cannot be repaired. If educational Sewerage Board is carrying out its work, !t facilities cannot be afforded to the children will be ten years before all the schoolS· just at the age when thPy require them, then are connected up with the sewerage system. the body politic suffers because, when the Mr. CoRSER: They provide four sticks. children grow up, they have not the educa­ some iron, and a piece of hessian for tbe· tion to enable them to carry on the battle of !'chools in my electorate. (Laughter.) life. Hon. members representing metropoli­ tan constituencies arc onlv too nleased to Mr. KELSO: I can sympathise with tho "ef' these hcilities giwn t;, the ,;hildren of hon. member for Bm·nett, but he mmt .sparsely populated parts. recognise that the conditions are siightl:;­ different. Open spaces are not a danger !he other point I wish to touch upon to health, but the present sanitary arrange­ might be ruled out of order but I wish to ments in the more dosclv settled suburban as I recognise that in the l:nder Secretary to come, judging by the progress of the and his officers Wf' have a ve'l-y capable "·a ter and sewerage works-they could con­ staff. nect up with the sewerage works w the The SECRET,\RY FOR PFBLIO \VOR!{S: The c],strict. Dcpa;·trnent of Public Instruction expends ~J ention has been made of ~he qw~sncn no moneys of any kind on construction work. of new sites. The in1nre-:,sion I re, '~iv,:

Mr. G. P. BAR~ES (Warwick): There to be more responsive in the future in regard are one or two items of importance in this to country requirements than they have been vote, namely-" State School Buildings: in the past. Let us be saved from the Additions, Improvements, Furniture, Re­ unfortunate centralisation of things that is pairs aJ+d Painting, £60,000"; "Technical going on before our eyes, and create an College and High School Buildings : interest in the country; and that can be Additions and Equipment, £7,000." That is done by responding to some exte':t t_o the in addition to the sum of £70,000 ·provided demands for schools in country distncts. undeJ· Loan Estimates. I would like to Mr. COLLINS {Bowen) : As representing know from the Minister where my district a large country district of great import­ stands in connection with these votes, and ance--- whether the Minister and his department are on the eve of honouring some promises Mr. VOWLES: :\1isrepresenting! made to me in connection with the Warwick Mr. COLLINS: Not misrepresenting! district during the last two or three years? .T udging by the stories the hon. member puts The Minister will find by referring to up here from time to time, he is not looking records that certain additions to the High after his own electorate. As I say, repre­ School and Technical College, Warwick, sPnting a fairly large country electorate­ have been recommended by the officers of and a growing electorate at that-which his department, and for some time the requires schools, I want to congratulate the department has had under consideration department on the work that has been done the carrying out of those additions. The in my e-lectorate. I am not saying that I am department is making haste very slowly, and getting all that I require, becaus_e no man on that account I would like to know wh,, represents an electorate that IS develop­ specifically from the Minister what are the ing rapidly can expect that. Of course we intentions of his department in that matier. had to wait a long time for additions to the I hope the hon. gentleman is putting on Bowen State school. It was over fifty years his considering cap regarding this question. old when we had additions added to it quite It is not a new roquest by any means-it is recently, which are a credit not only to the quite an old one-and, if the High School department but t ille school, nent position in the estimation of the people and several other schoo!H in my electorate. of Queensland who are interested in educa­ Of course all these additions were required, tional matters; and I am verv jealous that but I realise that, if we were to bring all our the reputation attained by the High School schools up to date, as mentioned by some and Technical College in Warwick shall be members of the Opposition, we would require maintained. I am deeply interested in that. a much larg<>r amount of money than is pro­ Tt is the people's school, and I want to know vid<'d in this vote. We all know that thi,. if the Yiinistcr is going to keep abreast like everything else, depends upon being able of the times in the matter. to finance it. I am one of those who are not too sure that as time runs on we may not have For some years the people have been to pass legislation imposing a special tax adw,cating the erection of teachers' resi­ for public instruction, That will have to be dences at Maryvale and Mount Gordon, done if we are to expand as I think we ought but they have been informed that there is to do; but we cannot go ·beyond our means­ no money available. The Mount Gm·don school has an attendance of over 100 chil­ and I tak<' it that we are living up to our dren, and it seems a great pitv that a m0ans at present. teacher's residence is not attached to it. Mr. KELSO: vVho would pay the special Chw can quite understand that for the tax? protection of the school building it would Mr. COLLINS: The >real thy people with be v ise to have a teacher in residence close incomes of over £1.000, and people with land by. Ag•tin and again complaints ha:ve come values of over £5.000. from the Maryvale district because of the An 0PPOSI1'IOX ME}!BER : You would make difficulty the head teacher has in finding them squeal? accommodation, and, seeiniT that this vote Mr. COLLINS: They squ<'al •·nough ~ow is a fairly large one, I wa;:',t to know what with the little taxation they are paymg. is likely to be done, and whether the promise The department has done fairly good work in JWcviously made is going to be honoured my electorate, but there still remains more rl_uring the. ensuing financial year. I empha­ good work to be done. Of colll·s,·, we can get "se the Importance and righteousness of work done cheaper-a shoddy kind of work. the claims that I have made in each instance, I have seen some shoddy work in my time. and I trust the department will see its way whcr2 the huildings were held together h.v to carry out the improvements referred to. the nails. I trust that the work now in hand \\"hm the country people go to the larger in mv electorate will be e"lCpeditcd, and whe,1 centres of population and they find impro:ve­ I make applications for further new schools mcnts gomg alwad apace, it creates a feeling -which I am bound to do becausP I Tepresent of uneasiness. There seems to be no dearth a growing electorate and not a dying one­ of money for carrying out improvements I hope those applications will be granted. and additions in the city; but, when you go to the country towns, it is a horse of Mr. :YlAXWELL (Toou,ong): One matter another colour. If we are to maintain ·which I omitted to mention when speaking interest i': the country by the people in the previous!~· is the condition of the Govern­ country dJstncts, the Government will havB ment buildings in and around the city. The ]~fr. Maxwell.] 1066 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl'J:.

Government C-tnnot go on postponing what At present our public buildings in Towns­ is termed the evil day for all time, and they v-ille are scattered, and something should he must realise that the condition of some of done to improv-e the position. Representa­ those buildings is a standing disgrace. Take tions have already be-en made to tho Minis­ the condition of the Treasury Building, for ter on the snbj'ect. 'The Department of example. If the Government have not suffi­ Public vVorks ha' a very fine allotment of cient n1oncy to do \vhat is neces~arv inside land in the heart of the citv, and I trust that the building, the 1 should. at am.· rat~, do the it will erect public buildings on it. At painting outside' in ordor to , preserve the present the Government are paying rent to vvoodv.·ork. I do not rcm~mbor having seen banks and others for housmg their public any '•'-' Jrlc done on the Supremo Court build­ aeparrn1ents. Some tin1e ago this land was ing since I \vork2d on it us a bov. That is transferred to the Commonwealth. but the H beautiful building, but it wants to be State ·was fortunate in getting it back with n•paired and painh•d. Tlwre are also other the object of ultimat"ly erecting dw pubiic Govemment building·s to which I could dr"w buildings 'vhich a:re ne.._,_'f''3Dry to Townsvillc. attention. It is an unwise policy on the I vv-ant to back up what the hon. member part o£ the Government not to keep these for Townsville has said of the necessit:;· for buildings in good order and condition. For installing the septic system at the \Yest End hvo or three sessions I have dra\vn attention S·ate school in Townsvil!e. \\'e can hardlv to the fact that it, would not hn.vc co3t nearly ask the department to put septic tanks in all so much, if done in time, as it will cost schools right away, but, considering that at now, because \Vhcre two coats of paint would the vV est· End school there a re betwPen 91 have done then it will be neces~arv to have and 1,100 children, we think it necessar:~ four coats of pajnt in a good m"any cases that the svstem should he installed there. now. I hope that the ;\Iinister will ask for sufficient money to have this work carriP.d Another "very important matter concerns the out. Take the Parliamentary building, for necessity for filling up some of the 'chool instance, and look through the window at the grounds. Tidal waters at pre:·ent spread over class of work that has been done. The kalso­ a portion of the lands. During the rainy mine is all p0eling off. I warned tlie Go· season a certain amount of water lies there for days. Although the department has been vernment at the time that the~~ were putting the wrong colour on the windows rnd doors verv good in filling in one very nasty -that the red paint used would not last as swa'mp, I trust that it will fill in anoth0r it was not a good colour. Look at it 'and portion of the ground, and fill in round the school whore the children parade. During c0 e how the sun has played the mischief with it.. It is no time since this building wa.o the wet season the children have to stand up pamted. Then the passages and the stair­ to thoi r ankles in 'Vater before going into cases ar,n a disgrace to any Parlian1ent, and ~chool. It would not cost very much to make this ground dry, and thus benefit the children the Minister knows it. It is years and ~-ears smc,o any of them were renovated. Citv and assist the teachers. members cannot be blamed for overspending The question of additional school accom· on the public buildings of Brisban", and I n1oclation is a very urgent one. I have been would impress on the Minister the desirable­ fairly well treated by the department. but I ne" of getting the necessarv monev for the cannot expect everything that I ask for, repairing and painting of public buildino:s. because I realise that there are other electo· not only in the metropolitan area but also rates in which new towns aro springing up on~side. If there a re any _buildings outside that need some attentiou. I do not fall out Bnsbane whiCh need attention. bv all meal!' with the department because it has not giv-e it to them. The policy of '' pem1y-wise gTented all that I have asked. I rea1ise that acd pound-foolish" which the Government ,,-e are fortunate in having schools in our have adopted during the last few vcars has towns, and that some consideration should be been detrimental to the interests of 'the State giYen to the country. I am not complaining, generally, because it will mean a tremendous because I realise that fact. I haYe receiv.:ci expenditure later on. I hope that the Minis­ my fair share of attention and I cannot expect ter will got the whC'rPwithal. and he should anything more. When school committees hav-e made certain requests I have always r-emember that it •··ill give emplo:cment to a pointed out that we must giYe the dopart­ number of men who desire employment. and ment credit for trying to do something for at the same time presene public property. the children in the back country. The school Mr. DASH (."'I1mdinubu,·ra): I wish to tommittocs arc doing Yery fme wurk in take this opportunit~- of tendering mv thanks looking after the grounds, and all credit i> to the Minister and the offic.ers of his depart­ clue to them for the fine work thev are doing ment for the fine work which has been done in cHrying out some of the repairs them­ in mv electorate on school buildings. seh·es. If they see that a nail i.s required. Recent!~· they have put np a school which they do not request the dc,partment to 'end u is a credit to the d('partment from the point carpenter up for that purpose. The com· of view of vontiiation and lighting, and I mittees hane been doing the work themselves. thmk that the committees of the vcricus I know that th,, department has always given schools in the town realise how much the consideration to the requests by committeeo Governmen: have clone in the building of this who are doing good work. school and in making additions and repairs to other schools. Mr. LOGAN (Lockyer): In "iew of th'' f!rowing popularity of the Gatton College I One verv important matter which I wich desire to stress the need for further dormi· the department would consider is the supply tory accommodation. class-rooms, rtnd facilitie.:; of water to State schools. Of course we have for instructional purposes. At the prl'sent tanks, but they are not always sufficient time we hav-e a record number of students where there Is a large number of children attending· the college, and the dormitory and representations hav-e been made to th~ accommodation is consiclerablv ov-ertaxed. department for an improvement in the The number of students re.sident there mpply. The suggestion is that the town this year is eighty-a record for the water should be supplied and filtered before institution. For that number there IS use by the scholars. dormitory accommodation available for [Mr. Maxwell. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1067

Dnl,· thirty·nine. necessitating the placing I again wish to refer to a hardy Df two >tudents in the majoritv of rooms. nnnual in regard to the Laidley hospital. The There is likely to be oven a la.rger attend· nercssary works required at this institution m:(:·' for the ensuing ~rear. ,,-hen the position are not being pushed along by the depart­ wtli be worse. It is necessarv to double the ment as quickly as the committee of that pn·3cnt arcon1nlodation by collstructing three institution desire. \Ye have not beer' able additlonal dormitories, each providing accorn­ to erect the nurses' quarters which are '') n1oda tion for sixteen students and one n1em­ urgently required. I am sorry to !tarn bcr of tll(' staff. .r\ few -.,yeeks ago the hon. by to-day's papers that the secretarv n••!inlJc ·· for Rose\vood and myself visited of the committee, who is an energetic man, Ci:tttf 1 College and saw for o{trsolvcs that has been admitted to the institution as tl position is r.s I have outlined. At th·• a patient owing to burns he receiYed through tim,_' there are hvo bovs in most of the explosion of a primue stove. I hope that roan!.,. , .ld the roonB are big cnougb for he will not be detained there for very long. one person. The principal has been I hayc explailled before in this Chamber that: compelled by this lack of space to take some the hospital committ~e hc:s a certain amotmt of the boys into his own residence and to of money to its credit in the local bank, and place some of them in another room used "·hen it made appli< o,tion for the endowment for i-olation purposes in case of sickness. I which it. should receivf' on every occasion it notic-e th.1t there is a certain amount of vvas told that. wh0n n1oney \Yas recrJircd for money ea.rmarked for additional domit-orv tnainienance or building pnrposes, th~?- an10UJlt '" nmmoda tion, but I d-, not think thO:t used for that purpose would be 'ubsidised. will b~ sufficient to meet the requirements I want to raise the question of subsidy for for the ensuing year, and it would be well the purpose of allowing the building of the to view the situ'1tion in this way-t-hat pos­ nurses' quarters to be proceeded with. sibly t,here will be an increase in the number of students, and it \Yould be as wise to It is not a right polic\ on the part of the provide sufficient additional accommoda­ department to withhold the subsidy when tion rather than have duplication of moneY has been raised bv an energetic com­ work later on. The number of classes has mittee and the public for the purpose of incrca ··cd, and the block class· rooms should aiding an institution. The amount may h'! he r•nlar~wl to accommodate the whole of th·· £2,000 or £3.000 and the sub­ 'iuclcn+s. Last ,,·~ek something like 120 mem­ [12.30 p.m.] sidy will be paid sooner or later, ber, of loc.1l produc.,,rs' U'oOciations visited the and it is the duty of the depart· coll 'go. If f 1xn~er;;; intc·r-"st them-;elves to ment to pay that subsid" when the mone-c . an f'xtent in the college a~ to visit lt IS raised, and not when required for main­ m numbers, there should be sufficient tenance or building only, thus allowing these ~ccomrnodati<;>n for the principal to meet and people to carry out the work they desire. nnpart the mfi:n·mation to them which is There has been an agitation in the matter P<'···essarY for the proper cultivation of our· of having a septic system placed in that lands. institution. but the propo,.ition wa.s 6et aside . Increased space is also required for instruc­ owing to the fact that the hospital com­ tiOn m t-he sheep and wool industry. The mittee has not the right to dispose of its pre.,ent facilities are inadequRte and are cer­ funds as it would like, owing to the matter tainly not in keeping with tl;e importance of the subsidy. of this industry- I stress the need of better The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC \VORKS : If the ac-commodation in that direction also. The con1mittee rais·cs 1noney for that particular colk~e t.o~day is certainlv in a much n1ore purpose, it can do what it likes with it: promising position than 1t has ever been in but it cannot use the subsidy for that pur. the past. . cr:he pr-esent principal and his pose. st".ff arc VIrile young men, who set about their duties. in. the right manner, conse­ Mr. LOGAX: That is the point. The quently the mstitution is becoming a useful \Vorlcs Department s.hould give the hospital one to t-he State. committee the right to use the monev as it desires-even the Government subsidy--when The institution of the trader school at the it is needed for a-dditional buildings. It college has b_een very successful indeed. Quito seems a scandal that in a place like Laidley a number of farmers attend every year and such a popular hospital should have no 'en:Jty.four ha Ye received tuition in thcl proper accommodation for nurses, and that the "·orbn.g- of tractors. Fortv·four attended nur·~L3 should haYe to g·o fro1n roon1 to roorn the teachers' summer school, "while 204 inter­ to sleep as parients va<istino- a 1wcn, placec1 undOi' dw_ control of that depart­ hospital in any way. it is up to the Gov~rn­ Yl1('lJ( 1t has met \Vlth rnore sur(;ess than ment immediatelv to subsidise the amount ;:ttended it u_ndPr the control of the Depart­ raised and to all;,w the committee to carry nwnt ·ill be nliHl~'"' v0ry much lighter. :~s thev will approval of the department. I realise that it not have the overcrowding in the rooms that is necessary for the depart:nent to have some they have at present. hold on the money expended in connection lJilr. Logan 1 1068 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. with such institutions, but the present hard­ Instruction so that the :Ylinister could use hi,, and-fast rule is not in the best interests of own discretion as to whethel' a certain the institutions or of the public. amount should be spent or not, instead of th·~ I shall refer again to the need of play­ request having to be referred to the Depart­ s:Jeds in many of our country schools. ment of Public vVorks, as is done at present. Mr. CLAYTON: V\'e can hardly get schools, The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS : I can let ralone playsheds. inform the hon. member that that suggestion Mr. LOGAN: I have no complaint about is now being put into operation. schoo!s, as the 'Lockyer district is fairly well Mr. CLAYTOl'\ : It is pleasing to hear supplied, but manv schools there need shelter­ from the Minister that the suggestion is being shed,. It is very difficult to move the depart­ put into operation. If it is, it is on account ment in this matter. I agree that schools of the continual pressure that has been should be the first consideration, but some brought to bear by members of the Country of the later type of schools have no veranda party in that direction. There is a limit to· space, and there is no shelter for the children the amount the Departm€nt of Public Insti·uc­ from the rain and sun during lunch and tion can spend without reference to the play hours. Something should be done bv Works Department. and. I shall be glad if the department in this matter. · the Minister can inform me what the limit is. At 12.35 p.m., The SECRETARY FOR PI'BLIC WORKS : Up to The CnAIR}fAN resumed the chair. £25. ~Ir. LOGAN: If the department were to Mr. CLAYT0:'-1: If it exceeds £25, then it give reasonable support to a school committee is a matter for the Department of Public '':hich ;night be prepared to provide a por­ Works? twn ot the monev to er·ect a playshed it The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Yes. would be doing a good deal of good.' I have brought before the Minister the need Mr. CLAYTON: I think the department of a shed at one particular school. I under­ might double that amount, if the people in stand he is giving the matter attention, and country districts subsidise the expen-diture. I holle he will be able to give assistance on If the people connected with the State school the lines I have suggested. The committee I have in mind are agreeable to contribute is prepared to do a portion of the work and a sum of £50 towards the cost of the exten­ find eom

·assist in the education of the children by always understood that such a course was making free grants of land and subsidising worthy of encouragement. But when they ;the coit of the buildings in which education marry they have to leave their wives and i:.. being carried on. travel very long distances every morning to attend to their school duties and back again ThP CHAIRMA::\ : ONler l at night simply because there is no accommo­ Mr. CLAYTON: I do not know where I dation for them at the schools at which they am wrong. Mr. Pollock, ]>ut I must b?w to are stationed. I know one particular vour ruling. The comrmttees are takmg a instance at Habana, and I am glad that great interest in connection with the estab­ the Secretary for Public Instruction is in fi,hment of these btlildings .and are subsr­ his place, because I hope he will give it dising the department, and on almost every some attention. The accommodation of the occasion on which I have applied for a new t-eacher there has been under consideration huildingo in mv district ;hey have found the for some time, and, when I called at the land, stump·ed it, and supplied the stumils Department of Public Instruction, I was told for the erection of the buildmg. If that rs that it was in the hands of the Department not as3isting in providing for the educ_ation of Public Works, and that the Department of the children, I do not know what IS. I of Public Instruction had no further control trust that in future this department will do in the matter. That brings us back to the eyerything: poesible to assist _the Departm_ent system of dnal control. In this instance the nf Public Instructron to provr·de school bmld­ Department of Public Instruction has urged ings, and thus allow the childr-en in the that the residence should be erected, vet it cocmtrv districts to get .a reasonable educa­ appears to have been hung up in the Depart­ tion. \vhich will do a great deal in the ment of Public Works. •With the knowledge development of Queensland. which I have, I am quite sure that in many * Mr. SWAYNE (Jiimni): Unfortunately, instances the monev which is spent in build­ in many cases country children are not ing a school under the syst-em I have men­ getting any education owing to t-he delay tioned, with a. very slight addition, would and difficulty in securing schools. In many build a residence for the teacher as well, if ·other instances the children are crowded the job were let locally by contract. If any together in the present schools because the alteration is required, if a window is to population in the district has increased since be put in, a veranda constructed, or a door the schools were built, so that all round they hung, a workman has to be sent from a t-own arc not able to get sufficient accommodation. perhaps 30 miles or 40 miles away, when This result is largely due to the system of perhaps there is a tradesman resident in the -dual control which is in operation. I men­ vicinity of the work who could do the job tioned the same matter on the vote for the by contract at half the price it costs the Home Department, and here is another department. -direction in which the defects of the system 'I'he CHAIRMAN: Order! I have aJ.readv n.re apparent-the lack of co-ordination warned the hon. member that the question between the Depart-ment of Public ·works of the polic,· of the \Vorks Department should and the Department of Public Instruction. have been discussed on the main vote. It seems to me that the Department of Public ~r. SWAYNE: I did not speak on the Instruction is the department which should mam vote. -carrv out. the work in connection with the scho;:,l buildings. It is in the best position The CHAIRMAC\i: That is not my fault. to know the educational requirements of any The hon. member will be asked to discontinue particular district, and I think the best his sp0ech if he does not obey my ruling. method would be for the department to . Mr. SW A YNE: An amount of £132,050 -decide what schools are required and then is provided on this vote and all I want to be able to call tenders for the building of say is that, if my sugg~stion were adopted them, subject to the specifications and super­ only two-thirds of that amount would b~ rision of the Department of Public Works. required or, better still, half as much work I think that the present system of doing more could be done for that sum. -everything by day work under the control The CHAIRMAN: Order! ·of the Department of Public \Vorks is unduly -costly. Mr. SWA YNE: In other wo·rds, one-third more work could be done with the money. The CHAIRMAN : Order ! Mr. COKROY (Maranoa): I have listened Mr. S\VA YNE : I am speaking of the very attentively this morning to the remarks ·system as in operation under the Department of hon. members repr('senting city electorates, of Public Works in regard to schools. fl.nd, while I do not object to educational The CHAIRMAN: Order! The question facilities being granted in those centres, I of the policy of the department should have do contend that all country centres, especi­ 'been dealt wit-h on the main vote. ally the small scattered a·reas, should receivc­ almost impossible in an outlying district to torate. I contend that the children in the get a house for a teacher; yet we know that country should receive every possible con­ ,many of our tea.chers marry, and I have sideration, because education, and especially JYlr. Conr·oy.] 1070 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

primary education. is most important. I disabilities under which people labour in: realise the great difficulty pa-rents have in the country, that he will give them favour­ ~eeing that their children are educated. I able consideratiou. know of cases where children have to ride 5, 6, and 7 miles every da.y to school, and :\fr. EDWARDS (Tanango): The hon. that is a difficulty that does not confront member for J\,1aranoa ra.ised a most important children residing in the cities. Although point when he touched upon the question !!.ere may be some disadvantages from over· of the erection of country schools. Hon. members on this side of the Chamber repre­ ~rowel im; of schools and lack of necessary improve]nents in the large centre•,, the most sent the majority of the ccuntry electorates, important thing to have in. mind is the and they can endorse his "entiments. It making av:tilable to every chtld the oppor­ often happens that snch a grea.t period of tunity of receiving a. primary education. The time elap :es from the time the Department vote shows an increase from £110,317 to of Public Instruction agrees to c··tablish ,t £132,050, and I hope that the increase will school in a country district until it is erected be spent in country electorates. by the ·works Der)art.ment that many of the children have remoYed from the district. Cnfortunatd . within the last four years I agree with the hon. rne:..._1bor for }lara !lO<:• cue of the ohi type of schooh was erected that, although tLerc is a large a:rnonnt of in rny p}ectondc at Tninn0, the trrnnnu~ n1rncy expended fron1 rin:.P to t in10 in country of the Ron1n-Injnne rRill,"ay. I endt::aYoured di:;trict-, too grc"1t con~iderahon cannct be at the tin1(' t) prevent it:-3 erection, but my extended in the matter of the education of objection _,·as overruled b~ the ::\linister the coumry children. It is known that delays Afthou~h it ls a ~very good schooL it is frequently take place in the pushing ,,,head altog-ether roo small, and has no conveni­ of the bqi]ding and rcpairin? of Cl ;•es whatever. I have brought the matter [2 p. m.] countrv schools, and Yarious before the ;,) inistor. who will o ;\reo that reDsons arc giyen for those delays. rnany improvr·mc:r.ts to the school are neces­ It is not ah' a','S a matter of delav on the 'ary. I hope, th0rcfore, that the hon. part of the D.epartmcnt of Public \Vorks. gentleman \vill ar.rrec to Ill\ requf•-;t for thoso Frequently there is a difficulty in obt-aining improvements to be effected. sii'es for schools. If the department can see its way to push things in some localities Tlwre is one other matter I would like cYen more than it is doing now. that would to point out to thf' 11in1ster, and it is one bn a big advantage to the country children. that has been r0cognised 1Jy hon. members on both sides of the Cha.mber, as thP;<' have In many cases an agit.ation take:; place for bronght it unrler the notice of the :Minister. the establishment of a country school. but, It is in regard to tlw nnneccssar:.- dela.y through dcln' s. the number of children may that takes place before work in re;;arcl to have decreased' to such an extent that the requisite number for the establishment of school buildiJH~·~. 1::. executed. I have in mind a building was to be erected at a se heal does not exist when the department ,~·hich is prepared to go ahead with the scheme. MorY~'l1. PL;-ns and spPcificn~ions werE' pre­ pared. I brn••ght tho matter before the Sometimes a delay of a year takes place. ~.f1ni h-·1' 1a;;:;t Fcbrn.LrY. and, unh.;;s the \vork Hon. J. G. APPEL: I have known of two in con;lceti( :1 >.vith l:h0 bu1lding has bren years elapsing. r roc(v-ckd 1\-ith quitt n c>cnt.ly, nothing has yet been done. i\1r. ED\VARDS: \Vhen such dela,·s occm· it is impossiblP to expect parent. to keep their :Yh. PETERSC': It take' about bro years ehildrc'l in that localitY without anv educa­ to gC't a sc~1ool. tional facilities P.Yailnb'le. and fron1~ tirne ro time families are forced to leaye such Mr. CO"iROY: The Lands Department districts for that reason. In such c1se·, the made a grant of the Lncl for the building. remaining children are so lcssen0d in number Plans and specifications were then prepared, that the required number does not exist but up to the pre,ont time nothing has been and the department then will not go ahead don{· in regard to its erection. I am not with the school. I have a c·.se in mv ott.ac~1ing any blame to th" Minister or his o\vn f'lC'C"tor..tte, at Dnrong, ,vherc an agita. dcprrrh1ent, but I have brought the matter tion for a school tnok place for some little forward because I con,icler that the erection time. After a number of obstacles had been of school buildings. particularly in country 'lHmountcd it ,, as decided to bnild the districts, should be proceeded with more echool. but now I have a note from the expeditiously. An hon. member now receives DPpartment of Public Instruction to the a. communicat-ion from the Secretary for effect that, as the number of children ha' Public Instruction tha.t such and such a work dPcreaced, it will have to reconsider the he,s been ~tpproved and sent on to the Works nuttt0r of building the school. It would be D' cmrtmont. and naturally he concludes that much better for the children concerned if the the work will be started, if not immediately, Department of Pnblic Works could find some th:•n in a very short t-ime. means of carrying out these more import-ant Mr. PETERSO>;;: You are only sta.rting your iobs as a first duty. The suggestion made troubles then. bv the hon. memb<'r for \Vide Bay should b.c carefully considered by the Minister, :Wr. CONROY: Some system should be that is. that the Department of Public devised whereby, when a work is approved, Instrnction should have power to spend a it should be put in hand as soon as possible. certain amount. of money on a job. Very I do not sa.v that the citv areas should often a local contrador could carry out the not get the same treatment· as country dis­ work, and, if the Unde1· Secretary of Public tricts; but, speaking as the representative Instruction, when visiting certain districts, of a countr:v electora.te, I contend tha.t we had power to get an estimate of the cost do not get the same service, as the city. I and order the work to be done immediately, am living in hopes that the Minister will it would be of great a-dYantage. consider the matters I h:we brought for­ While we appreciate the actio,; of the ward, and, taking into consideration the department in obta.ining the increased vote- [Mr. Conroy. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1071 asked for, I would point out that it does not for ::\anango-who, like myself, is a country represent an actual increase. I was astounded member-has stressed the necessity for pro­ to learn that the department has had difficulty liding school accommodation for the children in having the vote spent, and very often has of country settlers who are prepared to suffer to carry a large amount of work over into the all the inconveniences attendant upon following year. If that is so, and it is not country life. \Vhile parents are prepared to made absolutelv clear to members of the subr1it to all the disabilities and to the lack Committee, the "opinion is likely to be formed of amusements and comforts which town that the increased vote will mean that a dwellers enjoy, they arc anxious that their greater amount of work will be carried out children should receive the education which in the following year when really it is for is necessary if they are to take their part in work which in some instances should have the affairs of the State in time to come. I been carried out in the year previous, as the have no objection-nor am I in any way amount was provided for on the Estimates for envious-to the accommodation which is that year. 'That being so, the Y£inister should being provided in the large centrts of popu­ carefully consider the question of the deterio­ lation. When a country member who has ration of public buildings. A very much aokecl to have a school built for the accom­ larger amount of money is required to pnt mod~tion of children in the country-which our public buildings in a proper state of application has received the approval of the repair. There are many old buildings Department of Public Instruction--finds that throughout G;)ueensland which arc deteriorat­ c~wir:g to the lack of funds the work cannot ing very fast, and it is a very difficult ques­ '"e r ,rricd out. he naturally feels that per­ tion at the present time to got proper accom­ haps almost too much is being spent for the modation for the children in these old build­ children in the metropolitan area. Xot that ings. In the first place, it is necessary to get tco much expenditure is possible, but when a report from the works inspector, and he a count,rv member views the palatial may report that the repairs should not be buildings owhich are being constructed for carric cl out, as the building, on account of the children in the large centres of popula­ its age, has only a short life. Then again, tion. and the amount of accommodation pro­ rcqtws raised. Th'l result is that the department of the erection of a scnool, that bmldmg Will lns decided not to do anything with it at be provided at the earliest possible moment. the present time, and meanwhile those children aee left without shelter of any The hon. member who he,s just sat down description. The same remark applies to the referred to the delay which often occu.r' l '"tween the approval .of a >:chool and Its :\[ anango school, which is a very old building erection: and I would hke to unpress on the -in fact, I think one v:ing of it '\·a built }Iinistor and the Committee that in th, case fiftv } ears [I go. The children are practically nf a district ~uch as I represent there seen1s without shelter, with the exception of one or to be a lark of foresight. inasmuch as it somc­ two trees in the vard. This matter should be ~inH'S h.~nnens that there is a del a~~ of t,; o flttended to in the interests of the country w.~rs after tho erection of a school of a children. No doubt the heads of tho dcnart­ c0rtain accommodation i,; approverl beforil mcnt arP doing thoi r utmost in this direc­ the actual b·Jilding of the school takes place>. tion. I know that there arc certain advan­ Tn that. ncriod the population ice !nrrea~in~.,., tages given Jo the city children which cannot hut no provision for that increa.;:p JS ~mac!~ l_fl be made avaihble to countrv children. That th0 accomm"dation of t.he school wocn It Is is only r:atnro.l, as the heads of the depart­ erected. For instance, there is the cl''ngatta and there is th" school at Where thor<' arc large numbero of children Currumhin. wh0re a bnilding was completed c.vervone will "clmit that it is necessary to after a long delay. and. owing to a lack of provide dec·. ·\V RIGHT: You have a big floding facilities as possible. population. HoN. J. G. APPEL (Albrrt): I do not Hox ..J. G. APPEL: Ther" has been an rise for the purpose of assuming the role of ;'1cn '>se in the nonulation; and, eve" if th?~e a captious critic of the department. I realise is a floating population, the people who vislt that the principal trouble in this matter is th<> pla<'e often send their children to th'' +.hat a sufficient appropriation is not made local school. I admit that there is a yArv for school requirements. The hon. member large floating population at Coolangatta, but Hon. J. G. Appel.] 1072 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

<·hildren are there practically continuously. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: They l want to impress on the Minister an~ on the never had that authority. Premier-who I believe is sympathetic-that foresight should be exercised in these matters. HoN. J. G. APPEL: I know they did In the Albert electorate I suppose we have not· still the notification was misleading. tho larg·est number of old schools in any I a{n only asking the Minister to take the doctorate. Many of them were cons~ructed necessary action to have that stopped, fifty vears ago, and do not ~onform _wrth the because such an announcement is a handicap requirements of to-day, and m many mstanccs to other contractors. This firm by that are overcrowded. The lighting provided in notification is put on a different basis to those olden days does not conform wi_th the othe·r con~ractors. I am quite satisfied that requirements of to-day. The trouble rs that the departm_ent did not give 'I'hieme ;Brothers sufficient money is not p~ovided to enable that authonty; but the matter havmg Leen these schools to be modermsed. brought under my notice, it is my duty to The hon. member for Nanango referred to point i·~ out so that . the department can the necessitv for raising some of the old lake the necessary actwn. The department school' buildlrtgs. I have been fm·tunate inas­ engages carpenters unde~ the supen·ision of much as the department has been good enough those who are in authonty to carry out the to raise several of these old schools, and the work under its jurisdiction, and I _know children have been able to avail themselves that it would not approve of any pat•twula.r of the increased accommodation. There are tradesmen advertising or notifying that they others built in the olden days and built very were its agents. low down. The Minister is sympathetic but The hon. member for Nanango mentioned the funds are not there and the children the matter of the construction ut shelter­ have to suffer. The point I want to stress ii' sheds at country schools. I would also .ask that these children have onlv one means of the Minister to consider the construction of obtaining education, and they have to suffer. shelter-sheds in connection with t-he schools I ask the Minister, when he is spending larg·G in my electorate. The majority of the 'ums of money on new high school buildings echoot's in count·ry districts are only sm~ll. and technical colleges. to constder the and even if thev are constructed on h1gh claim of children in our countrv districts as slm~ps. the accommodation provid·ed under absolutely paramount. I know "that the cost the buildings is not very spacious. ~he of constructing new buildings and making majority of the children travel many mrles additions to old buildings have very largely to school and the shelter-eheds afford a increased. As I pointed out on a former place for' them to sit down and eat thei,­ occasion, that arises largely from the fact that­ lunches. Some teachers have permit~ed them apparently there is a lack of method in coll­ to have their meals within the school-room, nection with the way in which construction by but eventually had to withdraw the per­ day work is carried out. It has been brought mi~sion because of the amount of debris under my notice on different occasions that and one thing and another that accumu­ timber has be<>n brought all the way from ln ted as a result. I would like the Minis~er Brisbane by rail. In one instance I think th0 1 o reconsider this question, and provide distance travelled was 40 miles, and the timber shelter-sheds where they are Il,FlCessary in had to be drawn from the railwav terminus connection with country schools t0 enable over roads for something ;ike 6 miles, actuall.v the children to have their lunches and obtain passing one of the largest sawmills operatin;t shelter from the rays of the sun. A number in the State at that time, the proprietors of of schools in my electorate, particularly the which were prepared to find the timber for old ones, are not sufficiently larg·e tu accom­ that school-they were interested in the sett], modate the scholars, and it is necessary for ment of the district-at a lower cost prico the teacher to take some of the classes in than the timber supplied in Brisbane and these shelter-sheds. without the additional haulage costs. Those who were to construct the building 'I'he SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURF: It is were on the spot, but because of some lack of often convenient to do so, and in good organisation the timber required for laying weather it is a good idea. the foundations did not arrive. The roof HoN. J. G. APPEL: In some cases with timber arrived first, and the men had to be which I am personally acquainted !he> accom­ paid for waiting day after day until the essen­ nwdation is so strained in the school itself tial timber arrived to enable them to carrv that, for the health and comfort out the work. People who do not understand [2.30 p.m.] of the children, a certain num- the matter say, " This is an extraordinary ber of classes are taken in the thing: here is a work construded by day shelter-sheds. In many cases the shel'oer­ labour; and how is it possible that the sheds are provided so that the nece,~ity for amount can be so largely in excess of the the enlargement of a school may be obviated. amount f.or which that building could be con­ I recognise that in some districts the atten­ structed if it had been carr-ied out bv a dances have fallen off, but in a district such (·ontractor ?" That is one of the reasons. as the Alber~ the settlers are mcrea;;ing, and This lack of organisation is very largel:-' I am glad to say the children are increasing. n~"ponsible for the increased cost-in son1c (Hear, hear!) When you are bll acquainted rases three times the amount for which the with -,.our district, as I am, and parento building- could have been constructed hv a come along and appeal to you, there is only contractor. one thing one can do, and that is to ~ry to Recently a carpenter and contractor drew enlist the sympathy of the G-overnment; my a.ttcntion to a· notification by two men nnd on that point I thank the S•·cretary for named E. and T. Thieme, which appeared c\griculture who, when in char,.;e of the in the "Beenleigh News." The notification Department of Public \Vorks, was good stated that this firm were agents of the enough on different oc-casions '!;o 1neet my ['ublic Works Department in the carrying requests for increased accommodation, which out of day-labour works in connection with was absolutely necessary: I thank the hon. schools in the district and elsewhere in gr,ntleman not only for myself but on behalf other districts. cf the parents and the children who will [Hon. J. G. Appel. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.) Supply. 1073 benefit by that increased accommodation necessarilv extravagance bec-'tuse, if :he which was approved and carried out while monev is-well spent, it is not extra\ agance. the hon. gentleman wa,s in that office. ~o:w rnd<·'i· the present system whereby the l ask the hon. gentleman at pn•cent m Department of Public \Vorks has cor;trol charge of the depa,rtmcnt-and he 1s sym­ of school buildings there is dual control, pathetic I hope-to ex:'rcise sympath;v a.nd and whe>n vou have dual control it always consideration for those !Jttle country children. n1akes for ~ ine:ffie;iencv. If a sys1 ~ n1 \Ye re , and I om glad the children 1v.·ith fresh 1nilk. and in this V\·av to say he is speeding up, and I expect some­ i tY(' a self~contained little U)ill11lHilHy. "' thing will be done very shortly. The trouble i.s not confined t~J the country, and is not It l1as been n12c0ssary for hon. n1embers on confined to present~day conditions. Take the t hi~ side, as they n10stly represent country case of Ithaca Creek again. I was an a.f'sis­ districts, continuously to voice their feelinl?'s tant teacher at that school from 1904 till 1908. in rcgarJ to the insufficient school accon1rno­ When I went. there I noticed that a four­ dation in the country districts. So1ne of the roomed house was being used as an infant country 'Chools have been built quite a long school, and I asked the head teacher if he time, but others of more recent construction thought it was a suitable plrrce, and he said, arc not altogether suitable. I know of one " No, but it is only a temporary arrange­ case where a building was removed a few ment pending the erection of a proper build­ yea.rs ago to its present site. \I'F e have been ing." We ultimately got that building, but ~~nd~a,ouring to have some improvements not in 1904. In 1915 I was returned as member effected to that school. as eYery time a for the district, and I had the pleasur~ of thunderstorm comoe along the teachers und getting the building, which was promised children get saturated with the rain. A eleven years before. There was no day labour recent instance comb to my mind of a school in those davs, so hon. members cannot blame built in the Maleny district. The Depart­ clav labour< for the delay. Two wrongs do ment of Public V\r arks got out plans and had not make a right; but we have to take t-he the school built. At the old school, which position as it is, and, in spite of the more was done awa;;- with, there were fort:;--five liberal policy of this Government towards children on the roll, but, notwithstanding school f>uildings, there are plenty of p',aces that fact, tl1e department built a school in in the State where more accommodation is which only forty children can be accommo­ " most acute need and requires instant dated, and the school is in an area where the attention. number of children is likely to increase. It Mr. NOTT (Stanley) : \Vhcn the hon. was not that the department did not know member for Queenton was speakmg he the position, as representations were made lo rPmarked that hon. members on this side of it that the school should be built with a view the Chamber were prone to ask for greater to accommodating a greater number than expenditure and then complain and call it before. In the early part of this year there extravagance. Greater expenditure is not was some very heavy weather in that district, 1925-3 w Mr. Nott.] 1074 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. when they had about 70 inches of rain, and The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: the average attendance at the school, in spite "Monto-New school approved, but -of the wet we hon. member knows as well as I do that fashion-and I hope mine will be more effec­ in a new settlement such as this there is tive. I shall take all the schools in the Upper some doubt as to where the township is going Burnett, so that I shall not be accused of lo be located in each case, and if the depart­ forgetting any- ment rushed in and erected a school, and " vVaratah-Purchase of two buildings disco,·ered in two or three years that it was from State Demonstration Farm at Monal in the wrong position, the hon. member Creek approved. Committee agreed to would gE>t up in this Chamber and talk about remove buildings. Consideration being Pxtrayaganre. -,.vant of ordinary caution and given to supply of furniture, wire. and discretion 011 the part of the department. gates for fencing, material for closets. The hon. member for Toombul desired Estimate being obtained. 'ome information about the erection of " Lake Pleasant-Erection of new certain additions to the school at Eagle school approved. Temporary school .Junction. Estimates arc now being prepared opened and supplied with furniture." for that work. Mr. CORSER: But not built. The hon. member for Townsville made a very strong plea, and he has also interviewed 'The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC vYORKS: me on more than one occasion, and made " Biloela-Temporary school opened strong representations for the installation of and supplied with furniture. the septic tank system at the West End State " Bell's Creek-Temporan· school school in Townsville. I think that the hon. opened in rented building. ·Furniture member is to be commended for advocating supplied. this s,vstom; but it is all a question of money, " Monal C:eek-Temporary school and the department has a large number of opened. Furmture and materials for claims to meet with the amount at its dis­ closets supplied." posal, and naturally gives attention to the work which is most urgent. If it receives a Mr CoRSER : No school built yet. request. for a septic tank at a school, and one [Mr. Nott. Supply. [7 OcTOBER.] Supply. for necessary repairs, and an amount insuffi­ The hon. member for Bremer complained cient for both is available, it has to go for of the dumping of sanitary pans at a certain the necessary repairs instead of the septic schcol in. his electorate. I think he a-dmitted tank. that the health inspector of the local autho­ The hon. member also put in a plea for the rity concerned was sent out to investigate erection of electric fans in new public offices the matter, but the result was unsatisfactory. in Townsville. I have been in Townsville It is to be regretted that such a thing for a week during "-'ovember, and I know occurre-d, and that the contractor was not that it is not a very desirable place during dealt with severely by way of a heavy fine. the summer time, and I have no doubt that The hen. member also stated that it would ;ome consideration might be given to tho be advisable to have a working gang from matter when money is available. the department est.:cblished in Ipswich to do The hon. member for Cunningham said the work in that town and the immediate .that no effort was being made by the depart­ vicinity. The hon.. gentleman may rest ment to catch up with necessary repairs, assured that that matter will receiye con­ painting, additions, and so forth. Last year sideration. hll extra £25,000 was provided for that pur­ He also referred to the state of the pose, but ever since the Government have drainage system at the Blair school, and ]pen in power they have been making an pointed out that th~ matter had been honest attempt to overtake the leeway left deferred for some time. I will undertake to them by the previous Government. The have the matter inYestigated to see what the ! 1l'eYious Government may have shovved sur· actual position is. 1 >luses, but the real sC'cret of those surpluses The hon. m0mber for J'\anango, the hon. "as that public buildings, schools, court member for Stanlcy, and the hon. member !,ouses, and others were neglected. for \Vide Bay referred to the necessity for Mr. EDWARDS: That applies to this Govern- some alteration in the method of dealing ment, too. with small necessary and urgent repairs. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS: Quite recently an officer of my cleparrment The hon. member for Cunningham referred was attached to the Department of Public to the Ciifton rural school, and no doubt he Instruction, and he has be-en giYen authorit:v v·ill be pleased to hear that approval has to spend up to £25 for absolutely urgent been given for the erection of the building repairs. That is to say, if a pane of glass '\ t u cost of £1,100, and the initial work is is broken, the sink in the kitchen of a now being carried out. The question of the teacher's residence requires attention, or <''HlStruction of .a school residence at the Emu some small matter like that. instead of refer­ Park school will rcceiYe consideration. ring the work to the Department of Public Instruction and then on to the Department The hon. member for Dalby stated that no of Public Works, will be referred direct to consideration is giyen to the 'claims from the that officN, and, as soon as he satisfie' him­ country. That is not tru-e. My predecessor, self that the; work is requir-ed. it will be car­ the present Secrebny for Agriculture, repre­ ried out. Thnt will prevent the unnecessary ~r,nts a count1:y conHituency, and I might delay in. executing small repairs that has reasonably expect him-as the records of hi;; occurred in the past. department show-to give very fair and full cmsideration to claims by country members, Mr. EDWARDS: You will not have to buy icTespective of which side of the Chamber so much red tape now. they sit. I have attempted to carry out that The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: same policy. I haYe no hesitation in saving The Govmnment intend to abolish red tape that in allotting this money I shall do" my as much as possible. best to see that all country claims are given The hon. member for Toowong asked for fair and full consid-eration. When people information in regar·d to securing a site for Clettle in the far ::'\orth or the far \VBst, away a school at Auchenflower. That is primari!y from centres of ci,·ilisation, it is the dutv of the dut:;· of the Secretary of the Department the Goyernment to endeavour to make their of Public Instruction, but I understand that ]ins comfortable and happy. If we can the present Minister is following up the n. 'sist them by providing up-to-date educa­ representations made to previous ~Iinisters, tional facilities, then it is our duty to do so. and is endeavouring to secure a suitable site. {If the amount expended on schools last year, Auchenflower is a locality that is practically £21.000 was expended in the city and settled, and as almost everv asailable block £104.000 in the country, or in the ratio of has been taken up I do not know how mv "ne to five. No hon. member can claim that colleague will get a site unlo·' by purchasing my pre-decessor did not give full considera­ land with buildings upon it. That only tion to the claims of country districts. 2hows the necessity for the refiervation of The hon. member for Dalby also called si-tes for rooerves, perhaps church buildings. dtention to the fact that the Milmerran a halL and school buildings. when a district ~rh•>Dl. \Yhich was built originally to accom­ is being cut up, to provide for thn population modate forty pupils. is nov<: expected to pro­ that will ultimately settle in the district. ,·icle accommodation for ninetv. There we The hon. member for Toowong also raise-d ha Y·e more evidence of prosperity in country the question of painting, and dealt with the districts, for which the Secretarv for Public ner,,essity of the Taringa State school being ·works will ha ye to take notice· in allotting painted. I can assure the hon. member that :noney this year. the department is only using zinc paint Mr. VOWLES: That is not prosperity. because it is non-poisonous. 'rhe previou'3 Minister. as the hon. member will kno"·· The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: banned the use of paint containing whit·~ \\'hat else is it? I am surprised that some lead. hon. members opposite have not been clipped in the well of truth. Thev should have more Mr. MAXWELL: He was not right there. ~egard for the statements they make at dif­ The SECRETARY FOR PL:BLIC WORKS: f2rcnt times, and not make conflicting state­ I am not saying he was right. ments. Mr. J1,1AXWELL: He was wrong. Hon. lJf. J. Kirwan.] 1076 Supplr. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: carried out the c~nstruction of one dormitory He c<'rtaiJily attempted to carry out what there, and will now commence the construc­ with hin1 a deep-seated conviction, and tion of a second dormitory. Other accom­ has some of the groa ter_ t minds in the modation will also he prm-ided. \Yorlcl thirlking with hi1n. The hon_ member also raised the question c\Ir. :iY1AX\VELL: Greater minds were against of nurses' quarters at the Laidley hospitaL him. and complained rather bitterly-and, I The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: thought, unnecessarily-that the erection of The hon. mc·mber for Toowong also calied those quarters has been. held up for three aHention t.1 tho condi• ion of Government v·'ars. I do not think that is quite a correct buildinr;s, J.wrc particularly the Treasury sbtement of the case. The hon. member buildings. The department is now complot­ '' irl the hospit.cl committ2e were prepared to \mild the quarters thcmselvcc·. They may do i ng tbc nl'w addition to thP Tre:-1sury build­ ings. but 1 can give tlw hon. 111e1nber the so. but thev will not bo allowed to use moncv gT11ntcd aS a subsidy for n1aint,enance puf­ as3ura"-cc~ tho.J \YhPn th-_ addi1lons are con1- poses. nor ,,-ill the~,~ be allowed to use :monf_n>' plctf_;.d, tht~ work of painting the exterior of g-ranted them by the Government. If the:, the b~.tildtng he < on1plaincd of \Yill be pro­ n·c so anxious to build those quarters, there ccedo·d ''·ith. j, nothing to prevent them collecting th-e The hon. member for Bulimba r·eferred to nece~sary an1ount of n1Dney and building tht"~ the necessity of building sehouls at J.V1nrarrie, qnnrtcrs b-· contract or am other method. If l\tlornjngsiclP, and }Iount Bruce. I can a-:sure tlwv esk for a mb>idv from the Government, the hon. ml'mbPr that plans are beiEg pre­ Ol' ·if they receive t>\--o-thirds of the amount par-c_d for srhools at }1orningsid;~ and ]\fount from the· GoYf'rnlnent, "\Ye certainly vvant. to Br:~c2, and. when d10se arc completed, the ~"P \1hat is bPing done and to have a say i1~ necc"ary estimates _,-ill be obtained. The tho matter. Ho,vever, the hon. rncmber net: 1J matter of repairs to the police station at have no furthe1· worry about the matter. as Coorparoo ha'3 been referred to the dcpart­ ,{'1.168 was approved this month for the pur­ nH~nt for action. pose. and the work will bo g-one on with a.t a.n early date. Th~1 hon. mc1nber for Kundah expressed the ·npiDion thnt the cot:t of DC\Y school buildings The hon. mcmher for ·wide Bav dealt with C'ld acldi1ions to echools \Yhich might be the question of schools required {n his e1ecto­ l'P~a.nh =1 as pr-..tctically llC\Y construction ratP. As I indicated in the beginning of rny ehcmJ.l be Pntirclv borne bv the loan fund. remarks. as Ylinister I am sympathcti-. to­ I might c b tc for the bc:1efit of the hon. wards the claims of countrv members, and T member and other hon_ members of the Com­ asSJuc thP hon. member tli'at, if he has anv mi ttce that that is the policy now adop: ed claims which he can substantiate. they "-ill by the dPpartmcnL rr-ro]ye sympathetic consideration. The hon_ member for \Varv.ick pressed for i\1r_ CLAY1'0X : I will be in vour office in the the r-rcction of teachers' residences at several n1orning. ~ c-entres in his electorate. and stressed the The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: 11cccssity for sorr1e necessary improvements Reg-ardinQ: one of those schools I assure the to the tPchnicai college at \Varwick. I ho~- member approval has now bro·en obtained promik the hon. gentleman that I will go for it. iEto the mattnr and see what can be done Mr. Cr.AYTOX: Yes, but the building has for him. He does not worry the department Dot been commenced. v0ry oft('n, and I presnn1e that, \vhcn he cussed the matter with That ic not my fault. the Under S<'~retnry, and he stat•" The hon. member for ::Vfirani stated that i hat those tanb have been erected, where the d1iid<·en \Yere crowded together in country necessarY. If the hon. member has some schools. That does not fit in with the hon, s<:hool i1; his electorate requiring such atten­ mernber's statcn1t~nt that the poor pd1nar,y tion, it will be attended to. producer·s arc being ruined. The hon_ members for Kennedy and TownR­ The hen. member also att:tcked the s,-stem Yilic brought up the question of erecting of dual control. and the mattn· was discussed pubU0 building~ in Tvvvnsvillc t.o accomn1o­ l.w other speakers who followed. The suggc·-._ dote thf1 offices necessary for departmental tion was mad<' that a <:onstruction department.. ;cclministration. It was mentionc>d that an~­ sonwthing similar to ihe Denartment ~£ horl~? baYing to do departmPntal business ln Public \Vorks, he attached to the Department To,vn~ville has to go to various portions of of Public Instruction. th0 cit7 to get in touch with the different 0PPOSITIOX MEMBERS: HPar, he.ar ! departmcnta l sections_ I assure the hon. mem­ bers that the matter is receiving attention. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: The matter o£ the filling- in of ground at I am here to sav that would not be a u the Ross Island school was brought up by the, economic or an advisable state of affairs, anrl hon. member for Mundingburra. A good that the Secretary for Public Instruction deal of work has been done there already, could not do anv more with the IT'oney at and the necessary attention will be given to his disposal than· I am ahle to do_ To ·g-ive, the rc-maining portion of the g-round, which I hon. members an idea of what the various understand is not large, and the expenditure requests amount to, I think I am safe in ""Y­ entailed will not be great. ing- that I could ask for a special loan of half a million of money in order to bring the The hon. member for Lockyer raised the whole of the schools of Queensland up to question of extra dormitory accommodation date, as to their appointments and necessary at Gatton College. The department recently accommodation, and also provide for the [Hon. M. J. Kir-wan. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1077

'11('C:essar:v alterations, additions, repairs, and The SECRETARY FOR P'GBLIC WORKS: new schools required. · The hon. gentleman said we were erecting :Mr. CLAYTON: That is a deplorable con­ palatial buildings in the city. I am sure tho clition. hon. gentleman will not quarrel with thE' The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Department of Public \Vorks for putti1ig up I am very glad that I got that int<:'rjection. buildings in !he city that are up to standard, \Yhat did Mr. Bruntnell, the K>J.tionalist and, if schools have been erected which bv a -:yfinistcr for Education, in New South Wales stretch of imagination might be described, a< sav? He said he wanted two and a-half nalatial, I do not know that any fault can mtllions to b1·ing up to date the "chools of be found with the department. ?\cw South \Vales which had been under Hon. J. G. APPEL: I did not find fault with the control o£ u :";' ationalist Government for the department ~ears. The SF:CRE'l'ARY .FOR PUBLIC WORK8: An OPPOSITION 1'1EiiinER: Put your own l!nquestionably, when the hon. gentlPman house in order. was Home Secretary, the Govornment erected a very fine school building in the The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS : The public schools of this State, and e·;peci­ c'r>ctorate of the hon. member for Windsor. a!Iy the country schools. more than favourabl• No doubt that scl10ol was necessary, and it <'ompare with ·the '·chools in anv other State was erected in a very flourishing euburh of in the Commonwealth. Recently I travelled Brisbane. through the ::\"m·thorn Ri:vers district of New The hon. member stated that he had been South \Vales, and I was astounded to see some informed that a firm were advertising in building· .. that were used as schoob in that a Beenleigh newspaper that !hey were agents district. They could properly be described for the department in regard to day labour. a, barns, >' connection with the erection of schools was h··ing built in the Maryborough dishict, the due to questions of sites. That very often is department gets the timber at :\11aryborough a question of much controversy in 'Countrv or some place near by, and tho same practice districts. There is a pull this \V ay or a pn il is followed at 11ackay or anywhere else. that way. A section of the people living on The hon. member for Kelvin GroYd at the Ithaca ·-chool, wl>ich he ~uit.s their convenience, and there is great said Y\Taa overcro~vded. I 'vould infor1n th] rlifficnlty in deciding wh,rG tht< school shall hon. member that ·\he plans are h0ing pre· be built. Very often, when the -department p.•u0d, and it is anticipated that 1 hey will has derided on a certain site, a protest is be· finished at an early date, when the neces­ rcceiYed frmn son1e progress a-:::sociation or sal'-,~ estima.tos will be £ram0d and rnaterial f:·om some of thf' residents in the di,trict, to a~,,Cn1Lle-d on tho ground and the 'I\ ork gone the effcd that all the facts have not beer; eoneidcred, and thev ask the Minister to on with. reconsider the quos.tion of a sit8. An,, I do l'ot know that ~here is any'"-ing that Minister is in duty bound to give ~onsiclera­ I have on1itt1''rl to deal with. but, if I have, tion tn all representations made to him of I can assure hon. members that it is not that chararter, anJ :verv often delav occurs in any wa:;7 through discourtr~sy. (Hear, in that connection. The hon. member said h"ar !) I wish to assure hon. members-and that, tho department might not spend the particular!:' country members-on buth sides 1Yhole vote tbi•, year. and he urged tho uf the Chambf•r that they may rest satisfied IVrinister to get busy. I can assure tho hon. that their claims for school building-s. police member bv the time mv twelve' months as banacks, and other requirements will Srcrctarv for Public Wor.ks are finished there P ;v ays receive sympathetic consideration will not be much of the vote left to spend on from me whon allotting the vote, although I anythim;. I will sec that it is spent. am a city member . .I do not feel disposed to deal very harshly Mr. CORSER (Burnett): Kotwithstanding v.1th the hon. member for Albert, because he the Minister's criticism of n1y statemPnts, was most flattering in his concluding remarks. I find !hat the hon. gentleman has endeav­ Hon. J. G. APPEL: I was not flattering. I oured lo deceive the people of the State, {';a.s telling the truth. u nd the statements which I made are correct. Mr. Corser.] 1078 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

I have a copy of a letter wi'th regard to months' work on the block so that I Monal Creek- can take my family where they can be " 5th May. 1925. educa";;ed." " \Vith reference to your Tepresenta­ The " Standard " replied in a footnote- t"ions in the matter, I have to inform " The plan and estimated cost of a vou that the school committee at Monal suitable school have been prepar temporary schoolroom at l'.fonal Creek.'' t.hat as an excuse for saying that I am not That is one of the country schools. Now we truthful. If that is not a scandalous state of come to the Three Moon school, in connec­ affairs, I do not know what any fair-minded tion wi:h which the Minister stated that he man would call it. It is a disgrace to any could not find the land for the site. 'l'his Government who pretend to be so good to letter is dated 1st August, 1924- those who go into our back country. On the 18th August, 1924, the Department of Public " The carrying out of the "ork will Lands wrote to the Department of Public depend upon public funds being avail­ Instruction- able. " I have the honour to inform you that " Application has been made to the Mr. Surveyor Mellor will shortly be Lands Department for a school •reserve irtstructPd to design a town site at Three on the area described above, and that Moon, and provision will be made for a department has been requested to furnish school resen·e in the design of the town-­ advice as to whether a site will be ship." granted so that the temporary building rnay be erected thereon. They were going to provide a school build­ ing, but we have not got it yet. I cannot " The \Vorks Department has been waste too much time on any one of these requested to prepare plan and estimate instances-my time has nearly expired. of the cost of a suitable temporary struc­ Now take Waratah. The Minister claims ture to accommodate about thirtv chil- dren." ~ that the Departnc.ent of Public Works is pro­ viding two temporary buildings-the very That was written in 1924, and there is no thing that I said yesterday. On the 2nd school yet. The Minister says, " Give us a May, 1925, the Department of Public Instruc­ chance to act!" Then here is another letter, tion wrote to me- dated 7th July, 1924- " The Works Department has been " I have the honour to inform you that requested to prepare plan and estimate the ;\i[inister approves of the e9tablish­ of the cost of a sectional type of school ment of a provisional school at Three building. Moon on condition that a suitable room " Upon receipt of the plan and esti­ or building for school purposes is pro­ mate the qu€'stion of expenditure upon Yided locally without cost to the depart­ the building will receive further cm'­ Inent.'' sideration next financial year in conjunc­ Then, in pt·oof of my statement, here is a tion with other deferred works." letter from a supporter of the Labour partv They are not going on with the plans. They there, which he wrote to the " Standard"~ have bought two temporary buildings from " The ex-Minister for Public Imtruc­ the old Demonstration Farm from the tion was here on 25th May, and he Departnc.ent of Agriculture, and the school assured us we would get a school at our committee has to erect them-the very state­ centre. \Ve have here nineteen children ment that I made vesterdav. If the Minister had been fair, he· would have said that the of school age, besides severa] more \Vh

COURT OF INDUSTRIAL ARBITRATIOX. tion Act was amended very many times after The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS 1905. When the Act was first introduced it (Hon. M. J. Kirwan, Brisbane): I beg to was never intended that it was to be the iast move--: word on workers' compensation. When the Industrial Arbitration Act was first intra­ " That £4.765 be granted for ' Court of clued by the Labour party in 1915, it was Industrial Arbitration.' " never contended that that Act would be the There is an increase in this vote of £633. last word in arbitration. It has been accounted for by an increase in salaries of amended several times in very important £433, and an increase in contingencies of particulars. I contend that the whole basis £200. of arriving at· a \Yards is wrong. Let us see what occurs. When the parties go to the Mr. VOvVLES (Dalby) : The question Arbitration Court seeking an award. the which arises in mv mind is whether we are first thing that the advocate of the employers justified in assenting to this vote in view of who appears before the judge in the Arbi­ recent happenings. The functions of the tration Court does is to quote the capital cour~ have been taken away from it by invested in the industry, and adduce figures Parl:ament, Not long ago, in a very hurried to show that the. industry is not of average fashwn,, w1thout. any evidence, Parliament prosperity. If he succeeds in that respect dealt w1th most Important matters which the the judge not only refuses to give anY judges of the court would have been called increase in wages, but sometimes agrees to upo,n .to occupy many days in dissecting and rednce wages. I submit that the methods demdmg. If w<:> can do that in an off-hand employe•! in arriving at awards are very :vay, why should we waste all this money on unfair, and the figures are unfairly, com­ Judges and the court? Why not let Parlia­ putE:d. By wa:: of illustration, let me quote ment do the lot? There are certain hon. an mstance of an industrv where £50 000 is members on the other side who say that arbi­ invested in plant and machinery. Wh~n the tration has been a failure. employees in that industry go to the Arbitra­ Mr. CoLLINS: Hear, hear! tion Court, thev find that the first thing that Mr. VOWLES: Why then continue some­ is allowed to th'e employers is interest on that thing which is superfluous? But have the £50,000. Then a sum is taken for depreciation of plant and machinery, and a. pretty solid ~overnment. got anything to substitute for Jt?. Is Par!lament always going to be asked rate of depreciation it is, too. The gross to mi.ervene? Are we goi':g to be required, profit is thus arrived at, and from ~he gross profit. are de-ducted on paper several other a~ we were recently. to discharge the func­ tions of the court? We were told during the sums, whicl1 reduce the amount shown as early part of thi.< session that an innovation profit. Let us stress that again. First of all. was to take piece in the court and that a interest on the amount of capital. overhead new judge in the form of a la;man was to E'xpenses, and depreciation are allowed, and be appointed. Is that providecl for in this then working expenses. rent, raw material, vote? wnl-"c,, and m forth are set off against what might be termed the wages, working expenses. The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIC ·woRKS: Xo. or cost of living· of the employees. First and Mr. VOvVLES: Is anything to be done in fnr·en1o~t the employing fraternity are assured that respect this session? This is a matter of interest and depr0eiation. I have repeatedly that the public and this Committee should held in this Ch<:.mber that the working man have some information about. has his canih!. and it is of more use than ThP SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC \VORKS: You thf! r?.pital reprcsr·nt.f'd in plant, machinery, '':ill have all thP information when }·ou get ra1lwuys. or anvthing- else, yet nothing- is the Bill npxt week. allowed for it. The interest on his capital is not taken into account in arriving at the Mr. VOvVLES : I want to know somethin~< wages industrv should pay. That is where more thftn ~ha~. When :ve do get the Bill om: present a,,:bitration system has not given we shall resist It, and res1st it very strongly. "at1sfaction. and the workers under these Th0 SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC \\'ORKS: ;-;-o a·wards naturally are beginning to complnin. threats. To show that no amendment of the Act is Mr. VO\VLES: It seems to me that in nece,·sar:v, let me m<'ntion that section 8 connection with this vote we are throwing subs•cti~n (i.) (b) of the present Act away some tho!1sands of pounds for no nece;­ empowers i he court to take into con­ sary purpose, If the court's functions are to sideration the value of the employee's be usm·ped by Parliament. labour to the employer, bnt the AI·bitration Mr. FER;RICKS (South Brisban.;): I have Court never does that. \Vhen speaking on no\·cr cons1der0d the Industrial Arbitration the 'Ya 1It of confidence motion a fe'-v Act a failur~. but I have often complained of weeks ago, 1 gave the illustration of wha~ I consHler to be the wrongful adminis­ £56.000.000 sterling of capital in our rail­ tratiOn of the Act. The administration of ways lying idle and not being able to earn t.hc Act by the judges of the Arbitration the price of a drink of water until the labour Court is ali:ogother on a wrong basis, and, of the workers was applied to put it into although the system may have imperfections operation and bccoEle wealth-producing. I contenr.J that those imperfections can b~ \Yhen the rorkers went to the Arbitration removed m the course of administration and Court just prior to the railway strike. :Mr. that no amendment of the Act is nece'ssarv W Plch, the advocate for the Commissioner. for that purpose. Hon. members wiil pointed out to the court that, though the net ''emomber tha\ when the vVorkers' Com­ reverme of th0 railways for the vear 1924-25 pensation Act was introduced in this was just double that· of the previous year, Chamber about 1905 it was a yen· nevertheless it was not sufficient. Indeed. to <'rude affair. and had ~o comparison to the the extent of £780.000 it was short of the broad, benevolent, and humane Act that is interest bill, amounting to £2,435,000 on the no.w on the statute-book. placed there by £56,000,000 of capital represented in the this Governm·ent. The \Vorkers' Compensa- system. Do hon. members then not see that Mr. F'erricks.] 1080 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppiy. the advocate of the Commissioner claimed That is very far-rea.ching, and even fur­ in court that, after depreciation, working ther ahead than the administration of our expenses, and every other allowance had been present Industrial Arbitration Act. ·when accounted fc,r in the minds o.f the railway the Arbitration Court and the system are administration, the earnings \'l'ere not suffi­ rernodelled the court should endeavour to cient to pay interest on the capital invested go even bevond that. I am endeavouring this and the judge 'hould therefore not increase a ftci·noon " to put my view' before the the ha sic wage? The judge did not increase Chamber bdore the new system is inaugu· the basic w.~ge. That is an anomaly, for, if rated. The view I take is that. when these matters must be taken into considera­ interrst is allowed on ea. pi tal, equal or even tion. at least equal consideration will have to greater interest should be allowed on the be given to the interest on the ·workers' capital of the worker. because it is of even capital. grc·•d·'l' use; and if depreciation is allowed Take the question of depreciation. There for plant. machinery, or anything else, is depreciation in railway material-railway depreciation should also be allowed on the engin•·s and everything else-but is there not life a.ncl health of the \"orker. The working depreciation amongst the •vorkers? Do they expenses should then be set one against the not run any risks in their employment? other. the working expenses of tho employer lJ.:ing for plant, n1atoria.L wages, otC'., and the ThoPe risks ar~.,• ne;;er taken into considera­ tion. \'•',n·king expensoc, of the worker being his cost of living. And this is whore I "'o further Take the coaJ n11n1ng industry, \vher~ 0von than the Lambeth conference. After hor•·H are used. Probablv no horses are used those allowances have been made, unlimited in coal mines in Queenshnd, but they are profits should not go to rhe Pmplovrr•. A used in other States. These horses which evstem m a v be evolved at a l 'ter stage, wor~: underground in the coal mines are an a'nd ·when 'the ne\v measure C'onH'"3 forward a se et and a part of the ea pi tal. Interest is I may endeavour to enlarge upon. that allowed CJTI them in the balance-sheet, and aspect of tho question. It is not fan· for depreciation is claimed for them if they are th.· Arbitration Court to ~tick in a groove maimed or killed; but no interest is allowed as it has done. I must be nuite ca.nclid in on the capital of the coal miner, and no t!Jj,, matter. that arbitration· has not given allowance ;, made for depreciation or an~' entire satisfaction. I do not blame the men deflds that may accrue to him in following ·who are working under it for any a('tion a calling which, while not as harmful as some they take when we read such glaring other forms of mining, is not the choic>'st in instances as that which occurred when the the world. railv;a~v unions applied for the restoration [3.30 p.m.l of their 5s., and the following was said by the advocate of the Raihv:1.y Department, I , on tend that the judges themselves have 1\Ir. \Y elch- got into a groovP in tl1e administration of our Industrial Arbitration Act, and that not ' The financial position of the rail­ onE' of them from its inception has ever got ways in Queeneland discloses that the bevond the bare quFstion of "\Vhat is the industrv could not be considered to be lo;nst amount that a man, his wife, and one of" averag-e prosperity, oven ta.king three children can live upon?" for grantvd that the net revenue, as I have said. was double that of the pre­ "\Jr. GLEDSON: Exist upon. vious year." Mr. FERRICKS: Exist upon-I thank He continued that, if the 5s. rc'"toration the hon. member for Ipswich for his correc­ were made by the Arbitration Court, further tion. \Ve have had so-called Economic financial burdens would be placed upon the Commi ~.sions and experts and their staffs ni!Fa:vo, and lte added these aignificant compiling material for Economic Commis­ ,. •)rds- sions, all with the one aim in . view-to " Just at a time when. throug-h the arrive with the most exact approach to per­ prosperity of tho State and with the fc,ction, at ,vhat it costs a man, his ,,-ife, admitted co-operation of the men, we an cl tlu·ee children to exist-to nse tho word., are beginning to n1ako up the leeway.'' of th!' hon. member for Ipswich. The Economic Commi:::sion has ne;;er gone h3- T':•ople who do not look into that statement voncl that, nor hac; cur Court of Industrial mio·ht think that it is a veev >1clmirable :\rbitration done so since its inception. id~~ or aim •' to Ir{ake up the ulee'~~ ay/' as "I.Ir. VovvLES: The:' ha Ye provided what is this loss on the working of tho railway;; is tcn .. cd a stanchrd of comfort. called. Bu~ dv they •realise that it ic me-ant 1hat that leeway Jnust be made up at tho ~.1r. FERRICKS: The hon. member for e}.'"p0nse of the~ \Yorker& only, whO arc of Da.lb"' 1':ill agree that £4 56. is not a ver...­ grertter .-alue than all the c'lpital invested hig-h· eta.ndard of comfort for a man, h~s in the ~·nterprise? "Just bl:.ginning to make wi£ '- and three children. up the leeway" ! The leeway, accor?ing. to }Ir. J\1ooRE: It is for a single ma.n. •be argument used before the Arb1tratwn Court, i:::. the loss on tho year's operations1 'fr. FERRlC'KS: I was. therefore, very 1\·hich amounted to £780,000, and here was pkasec! to hear hom the Rev. F. Maynard !he alluring prospect held out to the: railway- when he spoke at the E•:hibition Hail la;;t 1!1011 bv the Con1n1issioner's advocato in the nirrht. c-omething which I had nenr heard Arbitration Court, who had just p1·cviously before--that at a conference held at admitjecl that the net revenue of the rail­ Lambeth, in London, in 1920, and attended wa, _, had doubled. He contended that by 250 bishops of the Anglican Church, the t h!·-ough the prosperity of the Sta tc there following resolution was affirmed bv the •sould 1H.~ a greater i1~crease of l:evenue-:­ as;;cm blage :- " wbich we all agree w1th and behove wJ!l " The first charge on industry should be, the case-but he must also realise when he b" a fair living wage and decent condi­ makes that significant statement that a tion< for those "~ho c.:trry out the vvork, double incma.se of revenue means greater and the profits should com·e after,'' expenditure and that the whole of the [}fr. J"erricks. Supply. [7 OcTOBER.] Supply.

·increased revenue will not be profit. The this proposal has not been more favoura.blv prospect therefore held out to the railway- n'ceived is perhaps because it is somelhing 1llOn \-",-as this: Let the railways 1nake up out of the routine. The judges of the that deficit of £780,000 each year, and after Arbitration Court have alwavs fic.-

7 .,, oncler that the tnen went on strike? If of the State were threatened with a claim the Arbitration Court had taken thu~ hear­ for increased wages and shorter hours, and ing in conformity ,,-ith the Act, without any the Arbitration Court was approached for scrapping of the Arbitration A0t or a an award. single comma of it-if it had only epplied There is a considerable amount of uneasi­ ccction 8 subse,,·:ion (i.) (b), that I have no,s in the agricultura"l industry with regard just quoted, and had taken into considera­ to its application. and a .consi.derabl~ tion the value of the employees' labour !o amount of speculation as to the mtentwns or the employer-the restoration of the bas1c the Government since thcv have not seen v age would have been made, and the rail­ that the dcci '-io'n has bee;; finalised. We way strike would never haYe taken place. know that the court appointed boards .to I advance these views fm· the consideration 1nako inquiries into agricultural p~rsult·"· ,,f the Commit.tef' because I think something generally in the State, and the cotton m.Jus­ must be done wi':h our sy,tem of arbitration. try in particular, and their I;eports ~ave I .do not think it is satisfactory, and I been fon'> arde.J to the court. \\ e know "hat think that few people can fairly da.im that 2.1r. \V. ,J, Dunstan, who moved for tho it has been S'ltisfactory. Hon. members application of arbitration to th£ rur:tl indus­ npposite, who nu_-.,~ not agree with rne and trv said at the Emu Park Conventwn- .,, ho mav laud the present arbi~ration methods, 'on consideration must admit that, . ' " They had everv right to .ask t~e although arbitration may bring about what Government to inclucle all workers 1n fvme Lpeople call industrial peace, that their first Act of Parliament, because the indu~trial peace will have been brought Government had spent a lot of money m nhout a:. ihe Expense of the men engaged the last twelve months, ~o that those ir: the industry. "When the now method employed in agriculture in its variot:s come~ into operation conside·ration 1Nill have phasE's would get the full return for the1r to be given to the question of whei.her the labour.'' results of the award 'vill be passpd on to thn It might be fair to industrialists in the ciry. cr.,nsunH {' or 1he \Vage-earner. I COllllllCnd but no agl'iculturist would make that adr~tJ::;­ ":\~ the Governnwnt the need for giving f-ion. IIe was certainly not rccciYing the full 0arncst cuEsideration to that matt~r when return for hi;-l; labour,· and, eY-2D if he \'F·rc, l::cy are n1vuldiE~ the neY; system, and not it would be like p;iv1ng a man a gDod hreak­ 10 l'Plv too much on the eo-called expert f0st a·nd then tal{jng hin1 out tn hang hnn. -commi~ .ions and their advisers, who fail The Home Secretary, who seconded the tn ~·et down to ~he foundation of things motion, said- and'- to sec that any systen1 of arhit ration i' properly based. I contend that without a " He \Yas pariicularlv concerned about proper foundation no superstructure can be the rural wo~rkcrs. Having affirmed the principlP of arbihation. they should get f)f anv ncLmanent avail. Before \\·e star:. io bllild' a system of arbitration we must the most out of 1t. The sechon of the communitv that had stood behind the g('t at the basis of arriYing at these decisions. Govern1nOnt in times of adversity \Vere While the Arbitration Court judges cannot doni(~d access to the court." be instructed, I -think it shows that they do not g·o very deeply into the Arbitration :Mr. Dunstan, in un official stat",ment t

embrace all rural workers, fruitgrowers, in the industry. I appeal te the Govern­ cot:on-growers, and others 'vho are at ment to hasten their decision and be out­ present excluded." spoken, ancl say why they· are not carrying­ That was the determination of the Emu Park out the decision ef the Emu Park Conven­ Convention, and the Government, at the dic­ tion. I know that an award will be made. tation of that Convention, introduced a Bill The court has to fulfil its functions in that broadening the Arbitration Court's functions regard. While I disagree with an award_ te include all werkers. That proposal met being made, it is right that we should know with severe opposition from country mem­ the findings of the two boards that were ber,. The indqstrialists very soon made an appointed to inquire into lhe rural industry. application to the court for an award in the We should know their findings so that those agricultural~ dairying, and cotton-growing who are planting their crops to-day will have­ industries. That was opposed by the repre­ some idea as to the conditions under which sentatives of the farmers on the Council of thev will be compelled to harvest their crops. Agriculture, and boards were appointed, I do not know why the Gov·ernment will not which. after extensive inquiries throughout take action in this regard. the State. secured information .and came to The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: The a finding 'which we understand was in favour court has-te deal with that matter, and not of making an a'vard in those industries. the Government. Since that time no information has been Mr. CORSER : The Government could given to the farmer, who is now engaged in deal with an industrial dispute and settle it planting his crop, as to the conditions within a week. v.et they have refused fer· under which he will harvest it. He is months to declare their position in connec­ kept in ignorance of the finding of the court tion with the matter I have mentioned. in that it has not been finalised; and, when efforts have been made in this Cham­ 11r. GILDAY: Do you want an award? ber by means of questions and in _other ways Mr. CORSER: I do not want an award; to ascertain the result or to -discover the but since the Government have made an reason for the apathy of the Government in aw~rd possible and a claim has been made finali·ing the matter, an answer has been for an award and evidence collected, and given by the Minister concerned which is certain industrialists claim that the evidence­ almost insulting to the questioner. The is in favour of an award we want to know GoYernment .'eem to want to bring about a what the decision is. I d~ not believe in an state of "Hush" in this matter for some award for rural workers until they receive purpose; they seem to want te delay the the full return fer their labour.

previous Administration, to initiate the prcsent--da v conditions, and, on the other e.ystem of ·wages boards. hand, we 'have these monopolistic conoerns, A GovERNMENT J\fEi\IBER: They wer•- a \Vc haYe 1o realise that every award which faihue. ;, made increases the cost of nving, and thus deprives the wage-earncer of the benefit of HoN, J. G. APPEL: They were not a the new wage. The question which h:xs hilure at that time. It fell to my lot to ou:urrcd to rne is. '' How far can we go 1n initiate and adrninister the vvages boards this direction?" We have to remember that system for some eight mon~-hs. As hon. the majorit:' of the community have to be 1nen1bers ar;:-~ avvare, those boards cnopo1istic ronren~s. That is the quc"'tion of coses thev selected a chairman themselves. that has to be solved. VVc are debating now I often wondered why certain chairmen were the payment lo b-, made to rna.intain the"o selected. Those wage~ boards were effective_, courts. We have heard objections to it from but the eha,irman-and that is the point I the member~ of the Yery party which pro­ wi'h to emphasise-was a layman. Then we pose-; that that payment should be made. thought v1e were going to do something \V~ haYO hear-d from them about the futility better, anomcthing about IIo;:; ..J. G. APPEL: It is a triumph of rack-rcr:ting. the capitalistic sy:Jtcm. of 1nonopolistic con­ Ho;, ..J. G. f. PPEL: :\'<>vcr in mv life. I cern'· because Hie re they are at their bec-_t. tlo not know what ails the hon. me;nber for 'Ne do not want to Lee monopolic" created J\Iaryborough. I have never been accused here. of ra-.k-renting in my life. The hon. mem­ 'The SECRETARY FOR AGRI'TLTURE: YJ"onopo· ber for Albert rack-renting! No. The hon lies ineYitab!y become capitalistic orgamsa­ member cannot be serious. tions. Mr. HYKE~: \Vhy do you protest eo much? HoN. ,J. G. APPEL: If thev ar0 fostered. For example, we have tha't sandalwood HoK. ,J. G. APPEL: The hon. member monopoly which was create-d by the pr-e,ent who makes that sugge,•tion is not doing jus­ Administration. I repeat that the whole tire to nre. No man has ever accw:;;ed me of position is that. on the one hand, we have 'hat. I could not stand here if I deserved the workers, who are dissatisfied, and who that accusation. No, Mr. Polbck, I l1ave regard the wage which has be-en awarded to no sympathy with those who are ra\'l{·renting. them as not being up to a standard which I receive no rent from anyone. allows them to enjov the comforts which a 1\'Ir. HYNES: \Vhy are you protesting so man and his family should- enjoy under much? Hon. J. G. Appel.] 1086 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

HoN. J. G. APPEL: What ails the hon. position to-day reflects any credit upon those member? of us who are charged with the duty of doing what we can to solve the position. The CHAIRMAN : Order ~ HoN. J. G. APP.EL: I think every hon. This is a matter that should be approached member in this Committee knows that I from an absolutely non-partisa.n point of have never been guilty of anything like that. view. I do not think that there is a On th;, contrarv. \Vhat I am anxious to see member of this Committee who does not is that those who are working for the benefit desire to see his fellow men adequately and advancement of this State should be rewarded and living in a condition of hap­ happy and prosperous, and what I desire to riness. If there is any such man, then he see is the method by which we might arrive i< not fit to be a member of this House. at that happy state of affairs. \Ve should all desi·re to solve the problem, and, if it can be done by a different method Mr. HYNES: You are on the wrong si·de of than suggested by the vote we are consider­ the Chamber. ing now, I say for goodness' sake let us do HON. J. G. APPEL: It is useless to say it and let us avoid the bitter partisa'l feeling !.hat an increase in wages from £4 a week to that has been suggested. I had never £4 5s. a week and a decrease in hou-rs is thought previously that the hon. member going to bring that abou~. Any man who for Maryborough entertained any feelings of has any knowledge, unless he is simply bitterness, but he seemed to be quite bitter desirous of obtaining votoo, knows t.hat such in his remarks. I had always looked upon a proposition would be silly and absolutely him as a good comrade. preposterous. We cannot arrive at it in ~hat Mr. WEIR: You charged me with ailing. way. I take it that all hon. members who. like myself, hav3 an ambition such as I HoN. J. G. APPEL: Surely, if we are all have outlined. desire to see that a fair animated with the same spirit, we can solve reward is paid to those engaged in our this problem. Look at the primary pro­ different industries. I am prepa·red to sup­ ducer l Look at the condition of some of port any proposition to bring about those the sugar producers! Look at the disadvan­ conditions. and I do not care from which side tages inflicted upon the workers that this of the Chamber it is proposed. When the very vote is supposed to alleviate ! Cannot Arbitration Cou:t:t was constituted it was we solve the trouble? We are seventv-two contended that o'nly judges who were tem­ men; we have brains; we have coffimon peramentally fitted should preside over it. sense and exper·ience; and surely we can Judges ~empe•ramentally fitted were solve this problem. We can if we appointed, and the very hon. rnembc,rs who [4.30 p.m.] do not approach it in a partisan argued that that class of man should be spirit, but a.pproach it with a appointed are the very men who are now desire to niake this c

·'before the court it took months and m·onths or legal 1nan. He ti~s things up in 3u~h .hefore an award was granted. During the phrases that to-dav m almost every hL!; regime of the Government of which the hon. Gov

members in the union were not earning £2 That was the recommendation of an unbiased' a week. The waterside workers have . at­ impartial commiosion. ~t was a go_od lead tempted to r~medy that positwn by brmg­ to the, Court of Industnal Arh1tratwn, but inrr in the rotary system. What has hap­ the court has done nothing to alter the present pe~ed? The shipping compames ~ave svstem and. as a matter of fact, I believe refused to send their ships to the vanous that to'-day ]t h>ts given a judgment that the ports. Hon. members opposite sh~mld not men who ar8 holding to the rotary system are tell their constituents at elect10n time that guilty of a strike within the me~ning of the the farmers' produce ha~ been allow<:d Act, and I daresay that they w1ll be prose­ to rot because the waters1de workers will cutecl. I hope that the "·orkers who _are not man the shipe<, because it is not true. standing for the emmently farr and J~lst A ship has never been sent to Bowen wh1ch ev.stem of distribution of work by rotahon has not been loaded. A ship has never been '~ill continue to hold out for it, and, if they sent to Roclrhampton and been refused have to be finer! to demonstrate that it is a labour, but the waterside workers will offer hir proposition that thei1: mates should get their own labour under their own system. a share of the wages to ne gamed, ~ hope 1\Ir. Kro;G: As they like. they will be fined. and that they wlll not feai·. If the Arbitration Court was :'vir. HARTLEY: :"'ot as they like, but effPctiye whether the shinpinf- co1npanie.;; under a fair system. to ensure that when liked it' or not. and whether it met with ono rnan has been em played for a tin1e, the approval of all the wat_erside workers another man who has not been employed or not, it would deal w1th the quee­ shall get his chance. Is that not a fair sys­ t.ion, and would enf'?rce the rotan· sys~em. tem? Does the hon. member think that >t The court would bnng- 111 a system wn1ch man who has had five davs or a week's woulr1 not Ctl!ow our Unemployment Insur­ "mploymc•nt should have \Jreference next ance Fund i-o b<• depleted to the extent of w~ck over another man who has not had a £4,000 or £5,000 a month. I say that ;'"e day's work for a. fortnight? He is abso­ sl•ocdd not sub,iclise surplus labour for b1e lutl'ly wrong if he does. ~J1i·.)ping cornpanics. 1\fr. MAXWELI,: ·what about the Premier advising them to work under the present The.se arc the arguments in favour of the conditions? rotarv system and it is all humbug for Mr. .Juetice \V ebb' or any other eminent judge to :\'Ir HARTLEY: I do not think that he blink hi' m·es and try to get round the ques­ has, though I am not concerned about that. tion bv talking about an illegal strike. This But, if the Premier is giving that advice, hP morning I asked a question as to wheth_er ~he i, advising them directly against the recom­ judg-e who had sug-gested that the sh1ppmg mendation of a commission which was companies should be represented bv counsel appointed in September of last year to make was right in doing eo. The Industnal a recommendation on the question of employ­ Arbitration Act distinctly says that, unless ment of "aterside workers b:T the rotary both partiPs consent to the appear­ svstem. That con1n1ission sat here and mado ance of counsel or solicitors, they shall not a~ very stroeg recommendation in favour of appear. In my opinion it was not the func­ the rotary system. They only h~:1rd evidence tion of the Pr< 'ident of the court to suggest with J'egard to the port of Brisbane. It was to anvoodv that they should be represented stated that there were 1,254 members in the bv co'unsel. The object of the Act was. as ·waterside ·workers' Union in Brisbane, and f~r as possible, to give the. worker~ a fa!r it was admitted that out of that number 200 open chance to present then·. case 1_n the1r men were i1wffective. It should have been 0 ,-n wa.v. and not to make 1t poss1ble for +he clntv of the council created under the them to' bo tang-led up in a _m:;r.ss of legal Unerc,ploycd ·w m-kers' Insurance Act to take technicalities. It was not wrthm the pro­ those men out of that union and put them Yinc0 of the iudg-e to adYise that cc:unsel into an industrv where thev would have been ;;honlrl appear. I noti~e that t~~- ]U~ge effective. That commissio~ showed that the stated tlwt he al_so adYJ~erl _the_ \-~ aters1de average number of unemployed in the 'Vater­ \Vorkers' FederatiOn to IJe Jepiesentco by side \Vorkcrs' Union for six m·onths pre­ cm1nsol. I dPsire to ~ay, from ~y. know­ viouslv was ~80, and that thev were drawing lPdgc obtained ao a resdt of qlH sho!'mg !he sustcn'ance from the State 'Unemploymenct memben of the Pxecutlve of the \'\ atersrde Insurancp Fund. The general average up to \Yorker"' Fcdcr. iust: and this was the recommendation of_ Mr. HARTLEY: It does not matter. to (be comtnissioners- me whether I am quite safe here or outs1de. " That we feel that a rotary and regis­ tration scheme properly safeguarded and Mr. KrxG: You take care that you are worked would substantially improve the safe. position of employees by ensuring an Mr. HAR'I'LEY: I ha Ye no timn for the equitable distribution of the work." humbugging reverence and smoodging to [ .iTf r. H artley Snpply. [7 OcTOBER.] Supply. 1089 bwyers that the hon. gentleman stands for. the proper maintenance of the I do not bother twopence about that. labourer, a.n idea which it has been sought to express in popular l angua.ge iY~r: Knw: You ta~e advantage of your by the phrase 'the living wage.' This ;wsit!On to attack the Judge. must not be interpreted as a ba.re Mr. HARTLEY: 'I'ake advant,cge my sustenance wage, there mus·~ be suffi~ fuut! cicnt to live a decent and complete, a cleanly and noble life. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. member for Logan not to " If that was propaganda, then it is pursue the matter any further, as he is reflect· the propaga.nda of 250 bishops of the in~ on the Chair. Anglican Church assembled in London in 1920." , :Yir. HARTL~Y: The award provides ask hon. members to listen to this further 1 nat the compames shall app.!y to the Water· siatemen~ of the Rev. E. H. B. Coulchcr, of o:de yv orkers' Federation for labour, and, if <•IffiCient labour is not provided then if Hockhan1pton- cfter giving one hour's notice in ~vri·~ing- 01: " The plain truth is that the men are hv telephone, labour is not sent to tl7em, striking, not at the bid of some com­ they can employ any non-unionist labour n1unistic power hidden somewh,}Pmarks with the vote. tion Court. _Mr. HARTLEY: I am going to do so. 0PPOSITIOK MEMBERS: Hear, hear! \I e are asked to vote £4,265 for the "•.tcm n( arbi~ra.tion, which is a system i o 'settle Mr. TAYLOR: They have exp·ressed their ·disputes, and I say that we should broaden opinion that tho court is biased, that it does the system so that we shall not spend tile y.ot take into consideration all the a.spects of 1:1oney and then find ourselves impotent to tl·e cases heard bv it, and that it looks at c'.eal with the question that confronts us those cases with one eye only and keeps. the ~o-clay. If public opinion were aroused in other eye shut. I am sorry to h0ar such Quednsland, these ,seamen would not be -cntiments expn•ssed by hon. members Bll?wed to rema.in in gaol one day. I am opposite. During the last few wreks the gomg to show the attitude taken up by /~rbit.ration Court has certainly b0en con­ :>me of o.u~ big .public men and men holding s·dorably weakened. In fa.ct, to-dav it has }ngh positiOns m some of the churches in simply become a rubb~r stamp of this Parlia­ l!le old country. I am going to quote from ment. In making those remarks I ha.ve no tne I'em':rks by the Rev. Farnham JYI:"Lyna.rd, wish in any way to ,reflect on the personnel -.n Anglican clergyman- uf the court. One of the reasom why the Arbitration Court is breaking down is " The affirmation was made in 1920, in because of the interference of Parliament London- OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Hear, hear ! The Christian Church which holds ~ha.t the individual life is sacred must Mr. TAYLOR: The Arbitration Court was teach that it is intolerable to it that brought into being to consider hoth sides any part of our industry should be of the cases it heard-the side of the organised upon the foundation of the Pmpl'!yer and the employee-and, notwith­ misery and want of the labourer. 'I'he st~ndn:g what hon. members opposite. have fundamental Christian prineiple of smd WI~h regard to lawyers ac~ing as adjudi­ remuneration of labour is that the ca_t.ors. m th~ court, the lawyers who have first charge upon any industry must be a re<. Our land is of equal value. \Ve both ,:_~cur,~ an a\Yard iu favour of their part1cuw put in lOO acres of maize. lt cost· both of lar cas.". Thoro is nothing of that nature ns exactly the san1e an1ount of 1noncy to in the mind of the judge. He has not to JHodure a crop. I get rajn and my frit>nd on consider that at all. He considers the evl­ 1 he other si do gets no r.:J,in, and, as a result, clonco piaced before hirn, CLnd from his I get fron1 30 to 40 bus:hds an acre fron1 n1y legal knowledge and training he can care­ lOO .. ere', and he gctc, ouly 5 to 10 bushels a" fplJy weigh the oYidence and endeavour, ~o acr,~·. Y1 t it cosh; hin1 exactlv the s.1n1o to far as is hnmanly poBsible, to give a fan~ fdoduco that lcs:;-er qn :ntity that it has co~t judgment and award to the partio•. before n~J to prodnco tho gL _,,_,_lC'l' quantity; ~o yuu him. I kno·,v that avards given by a JUdge ~eo thJ difficu,lties that attend the pri1nal'y (: J not give univcrFal satisfaction. The one produc<;;r. who lo·es his case most probably thinks ho HY::\E:i: industries arc not b,•s not been fairly treated, or that the ::vir. ·Rural coverr j by ~ll av:ard uf the Arbitratio:~ judge has not given the decision he sho'-!ld hove gi vcn, but for all that both partws Court. goir.g- before the cm1rt have not lost confi­ ::\Ir. T)>.YLOR: \Ye do not want those dence in that court. indu.-trics covered bv the Arbitration Court, I am quite in agreement with the rc­ b''cau~.o we contend t'nat a great injustice wi1l mYith the exception that drought conditious other taxation which is. levied on tho people m_,y restrict their sale·, slightly, but of the State. All that monev has to come nothing in comparison with their effect on out of industry, and. if you are going trJ tht:' primary produc-,r. If .we b;·ing the establish a capital value for the employee in pnmary producer under the system of 'mything like a similar way that yon would wages proposed to be imposed a great for the manufacturer who has machinerY, wrong will be done to him and instead of you at once bring him up to the level of ilie encouraging the primary producer to in­ employer and he has to become a taxpayer. crease his output and place his business on a If his capital is going to be estimated at s~:mnd foundation, we ;;.hall find his produc­ £1,000, or £2,000, or £3,000. he will havE' to tiOn wrll be very considerably affected and come un~ler the scope of the Income Tax he will be discouraged. ' Act. the 'ame as an employer, and he will probablv find that he is no better off than he We have stabilised prices in the sugar was before. \Ve on this side are not advo­ industry and have been able to tell the cates of a reduction in the standard of grower what we are prepared to pay him comfort or standard of life of the people of [Mr. Taylor. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1091

Queensland in any shape> or form. Althou§' h with the object of compelling their hon. mc:nbers opposite rnay s~ty '"e a1·e. \~-\-_. employers to submit to the • robtry' sa> mc't emphatically that we are not. iY • system." ':vnnt to see that s 1 andard of con1fort rnain­ \Yhnt has the hon. member for Bowen 1o ;av tained as far .as possible. to that' The members of the union will ~~·t I have alwavs had the fullest confidence in prc.;ent themselves to work ships. t~m·ph, tn the men who arc conducting the A1·bitration gooclnc3t th0 shipping companies \vordd be Comt. I believe they carry out their clutie3 lunatics to send their shins into ports '.vhere as n1cn who occupy tho re3ponsible position these conditions exist. .. of arbitrators should do. \Yhat arc we g-oing :Vh. COLLINS : Only " week ago the to substitute if we do away "ith the Arbitra­ "Calonne," a French boat, 'vent to Bo1vr 'J. tion Court? Can hon. members opposite t~:ll lF cf a.n•.r better ~vstpn1? Anv boll. 1ncn1bf·r "'lr. T_\YLOR: Yoll will load lr,rl right to select the individuals whom he I pnt it down to nothing else than the clfe0t '1·ishcs to emplov. It is further con- of tbC' Arbitration Court in settling disputce. 1endecl that its mnnbcn. bcinc: rnr-relv What are the two chief things which the casual employees engaged for "a pard­ employee wants and which he is prepar0d to c:llar job, are at liberty to refuse to fight for, and which we give him credit for nccept further employmclt1t, and that fighting for? They are hours and wages. by doing so they are not taking part Those are tho two most important things that in a striko 'Within the rneaning of the any employee is out for. definition in section 4 of the Industrial Mr. Bn.COCK: And conditions. Arbitration ...-\.et. These arguments can­ not apply to the members of the Bowen Mr. 'l'AYLOR : If he gets hours and wa gcs and Innicfail branches of the tmion. as hiq. conditions will not be far wrong. to hon1 thert~ are particular provisions Mr. BuLCOCK: Conditions are just as l:ontained in the a\\·ard or in an indus­ important as hours and wages. trial agrePment. The members of these two hranche' are d0arly guilty of taking Mr. TAYLOR: My own opinion is that part in a strike.'' hours and "\vages are the most in1portant Those a re :not 111 \~ \VOrds or 'the words of the t.bing::-. \\That havo we going on in (.~ueens­ c hippinc,· companies, but the words of the land to-chy? It is a. fight for whaJ: is called jr: l;;(' \Yho hcnrd the case. the robry system. By whom is it brought about? l challenge any hon. meml;or oppo­ V'h :t is the attitude of the Pre:11icr? I site-although the hon. member ior Fitzroy <.:JJ! read what he sa id to a deputn.tion said it-to say that the trouble in regard to t\)-dap~it is just n.s 'vcll that "\Ye should the rotary system was brought abont by the c-:u,_r the ah"lOsphere and "\vhere hon. employers. \Vho declared Brisbano alld Jtlf'ntb' rs en thG other are. The Townsville black • Yet the hon. memlJcr for ': Telcgra,ilh" ,says- Fitzroy told us this afternoon that the ship­ '" After cxplah1ing the judgment of the owners engaged in the coastal trudo of court ihc Prernier said that he con­ Queensland could have got their ships loaded sidered it h;s duty to urge upon the if thev harl chosen to send them into thG~e branches concerned the necessity of ports ~vhere the waterside workers are fight­ resnn1ing work irnmediately on th2 con­ ing £or the rotary system. ditions of payment prior to 7th SDptei:n­ ber 1f\"'•t " Mr. COLLINS: Quite true. 1 Mr. TAYLOR: I will read this extract That ic >rhat the Premier told the men, and from the "Telegraph" of to-day's rhto to I commend him for it- the hon. member for Bowen, and ii he m:·s " and on •\he understanding that they " Quite true " after I have read it he is accept the suggestion of the President of hopeless. the Arbitration Court that thev should apply for a variation of the a•card when Mr. COLLINS:. I shall have an opp0rtunity the whole que·tion of the rotan· svs:cm to put my ca"e 111 my own way later on. could be con, idercd." · · Mr. TAYLOR: This is an extract from Mr. VowLES: The other Premier doe'. not the judgment of Mr. Justice Doug'las- a f'(reo with that. (Laughter.) " It is admitted that the State tex<>cu­ Mr. HARTLEY: Why not vary ;t without tive of the· union insists uoon t.he !heir applying to the court? ' rotary ' system under the dir~dion of a conference of the delegates of all Mr. TAYLOR: Let the hon.' member go Queensland branches of the union, held to the Premier and ask him- in Rockhampton, in June of this yr·ar. ". Mr. Gillies further pointed out the It is admitted that at all ports except serwl!sness of the position, for not only, Brisbane, Townsville,. and Marybcrough he said, were the primary producers and the members o£ the-union are refusing or other people in the country suffering but neglecting to present themselves for work membe-rs of other unions were being Mr. Taylor.] 1092 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

deprived of their employment, and the That is not as it should be, seeing that arbi­ whole State was being more or less tration is the accepted policy of this country. affected." Happily that condition has been improved to some extent, and I am looking forward At the conclusion of the interview- to the time in the not very distant futnre " Mr. Gillies again stressed the fact when we shall have another judge appointed that the Arbitration Court had given its to attend to all industrial matters north of decision, and, as the policy of the Go­ the twenty-second parallel of latitude. Mr. Yernment and of the Labour party was J u'tice Douglas is over-worked in the Crimi­ arbitration, the duty of the waterside nal Court, consequently industrial matters workers was obvious-to accept tile ere hung up for one or two weeks until his decision of the court and to adopt the 1·eturn to Townsville. How farcical the suggestion previously made by the Pre­ Bituation is. For instance, if a man is sident." charged with " pinching " a poddy calf from Never was there a time in ihe history of a squatter at Cloncurry, the judge and the Ouscnsland or in the history of Australia rest of the court proceed to Cloncurry to try '~hen we had better opportunities for making that indiyidual, although .at the same· time (·:ood. Of our rrimary products we have an industrial dispute may be holding up an .fl.mple supplies, and we a·re just con1n1itting mdustry in Townsville and affecting the industrial suicide by adopting the methods bread and butter of thousands of men, which tho industrialists are adopting in women. and children in North Queensland. Queensland. That. situation is brought about by reason of the fact that we have not sufficient judges :Mr. HARTLEY interjected. in the Arbitration Court to-day, and I hope Nir. TAYLOR: I am prepared b accept that the matter will be dealt with by the the statement" made by the leader of the Minister before long. seamen in Great Britain. I notice that there is an increase in the J\1r. HARTLEY: Of course you arc. Yote for an A'sistant Registrar. I am pleaeed that the Government have selected Mr. TAYLOR: That is the very root of !'uch a capable officer as Mr. Wallace. Prob· ihe trouble. Why should we in Australia ably I have had much more experience than interfere with an agreement which is made any other hon. member in connection with hFtween the seamen of Great Britain and the activities of the Arbitration Court in their employers, bring their quarrels to Queensland, and I know of no person more Queensland or to Australia, and tie up our capable of fulfilling the position of Assistant own ships? If the 'industrialists of Australia Registrar than the gentleman who has been -the seamen in particula·r-wish to assist appointed. I know that he has quite suffi­ the seamen of Great Britain, let them levy cient work to keep him employed. At the upon themselves and hand over the money present time there is gr.eat congestion in the to their brother seamen at home. Nobody Arbitration Court following on the legisla­ has anything to say against that. That is tion for a 44-hour week and the legislation the way to improve their conditions if we increasing the basic wage to £4 5s. a week. want to do so-give them ihe necessary I have always held the belief that a judge money io carry on the fight-not here in shoul·d not be appointed for more than five "'\ ustralia, but in Great Brit'lin whore the or seven year3, or, in other words, that his trouble arose. appointment should terminate after five or J\1r. BRUCE: The workers are starving in seven years. Tim·e after time, when you go Great Britain, and they could not raise the to the Arbitration Court to put up a case money. for the workers, your opponent in court will Mr. TAYLOR: I am sorry to have to say. "Your Honour, the learned President, admit that there is a very great deal of or learned Judge So and So, gave such and trouble in Britain to-day, and we are add· mch a judgment two years ago." It is invariably held by tho person sitting in juris­ ;,,g to that trouble by our ~ctions in Aus­ tralia to-day. Instead of helping the old diction on the case that this previous ruling country to-day, we are adding to her troubles. is eomething like the laws of the Medes and Hon. members know perfectly well that I Persians and should not be altered. That -arn not an advocate for a reduction of is net a good state of affairs. I am of the 'me,n's wages, or for paying wages that do opinion that a. judge, after being on the not provide decent conditione. If the British bench for seven y,cars. becomes blue-mouldy, an cl should be passed out and someone else n1ercantile marine i3 tc) be scrapped in the way that some men are prepared to scrap it appointed ro tako his place. I am pleased to-day, allowing the mercantile marines of to know that legislation has been fore­ Germany, Sweden, Italy, Japan, and France shadowed which will be instrumental in to pay half the rates paid to British seamen appointir.g a layman to the Arbitration Court and obtain control of our commerce, then bench. God help Australia, and God help Queens­ The hon. member for Albert made some land! reference to the operation of the old wages OPPOSITION ME>!BEllS : Hear, hear ! boards. I say that the wages boards systeni was absolutely futile. I took part as a 1\Ir. HYNES (To·wn.•villel: My opinion is representative of the workers in the proceed­ that the importance of the Arbitration Court ings of the early wages boards. and I can is not sufficiently stressed. In other courts say that the v·hole system • was farcical. additional judges are appointed to carry out Representatives of the employers and the work expeditiously, but that is not so employees met at a table, and were forced with the Arbitration Court. Before we were to accept as an arbitrator some person who successful in having a judge appointed in was appointed by a Minister of the Crown. Townsville to deal with industrial matters we usually had to wait for the quarterly Hon . •T. G. APPEL: You were not forced visit of a judge from the south. The result to accept a chairman. was that twenty or thirty arbitration cases Mr. llY2'JEF\: I say that invariably the had to be dealt with in two or three days. chairman was really an arbitrator appointed [Mr. Taylor. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1093 by the Minister, because, after the evidence had come into close association with the and arguments of each side, he framed an industries of the State? He certainly would award. be in a better position than a lawyer judge Hon. J. G. APPEL: That is not correct. to form an intelligent opinion upon the dis­ Mr. HYNES: That was my experience. pute before him. Hon. J. G. APPEL: I say it is not correct. At 5.30 p.m., The late David Bowman approved of those The CHAIRMAN resumed the chair. boards. Mr. HYNES: Notwithstanding what may Mr. HYNES: My statement as to the prac­ be said by hon. members opposite, not­ tice in appointing the chairmen of those withstanding their interpretations of the boards is correct, and I ought to know. utterances of any member of this party, I say that this party stands four-square for The TEMPORARY CHAIRMA~: Order ! the policy of arbitration. We realise that Order! the law of evolution applies to arbitration M!". HYNES: I had more experience than the same as to everything else that exists in the hon. gentleman in connection with those the world. Ultimately arbitration will be wages boards. replaced by something of a more scientific Hon. J. G. APPEL: What rot. You did as nature. I could easily put in a couple of an advocate. hours ·drawing attention to the anomalies existing in the prer.ent system of arbitra­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! tion, but I am not going to do that. The Order ! I ask the hon. member for Albert time will come when we shall scrap the to control himself, otherwise I shall have to Arbitration Court and replace it with some­ take actwn. thing of a more scientific nature, but I do Hon. J. G. APFEL: I am not going to allow not sec an0 thing on the horizon at present the hon. member to accuse me of things that that is going to replace it. We certainly are untrue. can amend the Act, and we intend to do so 'The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAX: Order! as opportunity offers. Order ! If the hon. member does not obey 1 am a vice-president of the biggest indus­ the ruling of the Chair, I shall be com­ trial organisation in this State, and I have pelled to take action. been occupied with the industrial movement Hon. J. G. APPEL: Right-a! for a ,-e,·y long time. The hon. member for Albert culls me an agitator. Mr. HYNES: I am sorry that the hon. Hon. J. G. APPEL: Hear! hear! member for Albert became excited. Mr. HYNES: I am certainly proud to be Hon. J. G. APPEL: I did not. I will not connected with any agitation for the we!· permit you to make misstatements. fare of the under-dog. Mr. HYNES: If the hen. member for Hon. J. G. APPEL: That is too bald. Albert will only look at the matter in a logic;al. way, he will recognise that, when he Mr. HYNES: A couple of years ago a vote was takPn amongst members of the ?dmm1ste_red the ~epartment, he was sitting m a cushwned chmr, and was more or less a Australian ·workers' Union regarding rubber stamp. the continuance or otherwise of the policy of arbitration, and that vote Hon. J. G. APPEL: I was not. Never! ;,·as ~arried by an overwhelming majority Mr. HYNES: I took part in the activities m favom· of arbitration. I also direct of those wages boards. The hon. member for the attc,ntion of the hon. member for Albert may have signed his name to a paper Albert to the fact that at the Emu Park or two, but that was his interest in the Convention-the convention which laid matter, and his in tcrest then ceased. I had down the policy of this party-a vote was more experience of wages boards and arbi­ taken as to the continuance of arbitration tration than the hon. member did. as the policy of the Labour movement, and it was ca.rried by an overwhelming majority. Hon. J. G. APPEL: As an advocate. Hon. J. G. APPEL: So you say. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN : Order ! Order! The CHAIRMAN: Order. J\11·:. HY_NES: The award of a wages board Mr. HYNES: Every individual on this ":as mvanal;ly the award of the person sit­ side is pledged to the policy of arbitration, tmg as cha1rm an, and the parties did not but we have it out of the mouths of hon. have any choice in his selection. 'The chair­ members opposite that they are opposed to :nan was arbitrarily appointed by the 11in­ arbitration. The hon. member for Oxley is Jstcr of the day, and he was alwavs anti- perfectly candid about it, and says he Labour in his leanings. · has no tin1e for arbitration, and, secretly, hon. rm mbers opposite have no time for it. Hon. J. G. APPEL: Not when I was :\1inister. Hon. J. G. APPEL: So you say. ::\fr. CoRSER: Hear, hear! :\1;:. CorsER: The hon. member for Oxley st1id nothing of the kind. Mr. HYT\ES: It is most essential that we Mr. HYl\ES: Do vou mean to tell me should have appointed to the Arbitration tT1e.t the hon. membe;· for Burnett would Court bench a layman who is conversant favour a.n arbitration award for rural with the various industries in the State. ·workers? Not on your life. How oft,cn has the court had to adjourn to allow the lawyer judge to go on to· the job !.VIr. CoRSER: You give the farmers arbi­ where an industrial dispute has taken place tration first. to er:d.eavour _to. form some opinion as to the The CHAIRMA:::\ : Order ! I ask the hon. cond>twns eXJstmg on the job? Would it member for Bm·nett to be careful to obey not bte n:uch .better if there was appointed to my call to order. A call to order is made the Arb1tratwn Court bench an individual for the purpose of continuing the debate who knew all about these conditions, and who without interruption. I hope the hon. Mr. Hynes.] lOJ± Supply; [ASSK\IBLY.] Supr:ly.

mc!llber "-ill not mistake it in future. The suggest, as the hon. member for Windsor did hon. member for Alb, rt has exhausted his suggest, that we are showmg a speCial pre­ own time, and I hope he i•, not going to fen_)nce for Japanese, German, or any other exhanst the tirne of everybody else. ships over the Brisbane seamen's strike. The reason why the British ships are held up :\lr. HYXES : The hon. member for here is because a reductwn of wages took \YiHdsor was honest when he said that the rlacc on the voyage out by British ship- Industrial Arbitration Act was instrumental in bringing about industrial peace in this 0'''.11('1'3. Stak. That is so. 'Take the sugar indu5try 'The CHAIR:\!fA:-J: Order! I hope the a~ an exarnple. Before tho .Arbitration hon. member will connect his remarks with Court eame into force, before awards had the Yote. bu·n perfected to their present extent we had bail-ups every day, and casos of men going :.\lr. HARTLEY: I will connect my ofi the job in connection with tha.t industry. rLmarks with the vote in this way: \Ve are As an organiser of the Australian asked to vote a surn of mane~ amounting to \York,_rs' Unio~ I assnre hon. n1ombers £4.765 for the Court of Industrial Arbitra- that it took me a,ll m~- time to keep 1ion to deal with industrial matters and up 11'ith :hose disputes on a very fast indu::.trial disputes; yet, because of the vveak­ motor tricycle. To-day if the-re is a dispute ne~, of our arbitration syst"'m, vvc find our­ the men keep on working and the industrial edvc5 faced with the position that a number 1nag·i -trate takes a. n1otor-car and goes of \Yatersido workers and a number of carters right out to t.be scene o£ the dispute. ond others are thrown out of employment by Im-ariabl:; the dispute is adjust> cl and the the hold-up of British ships through the industr\7 c,trrif: l0n:r-scrvicc n1en \Yl1o \Vore engaged pmYer, and most of that increase has been in tlie lat-e war, when they stood for the granted through the instrumentalitv of the Tiritish Empire and flag muc~ m_ore earne~tly Arbitration Court. We realise that' arbitra­ than the rott0n Inchcapc sh1ppmg- c1lnbme. tion has its defects, but there is nothing more ,. hi eh is trving to starve their wives and suitab1e on the industrial horizon at the children at homo on 4s. a day. \Yith regard present timo, and therefore \Ve on this side to the que'3tion as to "\vhcthcr we should are »·hole-hog arbitrati6nists. tnkc noti0e of Havelock Wilson or of the Mr. HAR'rLEY (Fit.-roy): There are one 'hipping people here-- or two matters in the remarks of the hon. The CHAIRMA2'J : Orde.r ! member for vVind'-or in relation to the hold­ up of British ships that I should like to l\Ir. HAR'TLEY: Very well, Mr. Pollock, correct. It is ccertain that a lot of pi·ocluce in I will let it go at that. Queensland is being held in Queensland and ::\Ir. GILD AY (lthaca): I agree with many cannot be shipped away in British ships; and members on this side in regard to the altera­ it is certain that a, good deal of unemploy­ tion jJroposecl to be made in the Industrial ment is caused by the hold-up, but it is not Arbitration Act. One of the reasons for so anything for which Queensland is responsible. doing is that during the last few months the It is no use hon. membPrs opposite trying to Government saw fit to lift the embargo upon [Jfr. Hynes. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1095

men;bers of the public service who were they can go. they will go there to get their rece1vmg_ upwards of £300 per annum and grievaHcPs rectified. uver wh1ch prevented them going to the In 1923 the whole of the workers in Queens­ Arbitration _Court, and to restore the 5 per land who were under industrial awards had cent., reductwn. I have not heard any hon. to subn1it to a reduction of \Vagcs. I realised memoer say that 1t was wrong on the part that thin::;s wen very bad, parcicularly in of tho Government to restore that 5 per cent. the moat industrv. The court was reduct1'?n· The next thing was that all those approached, ar.d after a lot of consideration m recmpt of under £300 who had access to the judge decided upon a reduction of 12·· ille Arbitration Court had to go to the court a week in the export trade. Later on OY·0l'V to have their conditions rectified. The court \Yorkcr in Queensland had to submit to a in its wisdom saw fit to decide that there 5 p0r cc!lt. dc~rease in his wages. \iVhen things should be no increases to thcoll persons, and alte1·ed durmg the next couple of years the t>r~onally I _cannot _see the justice of that mnploy0cs n[;itatC' l for the restoration of n.ec1s1on. If 1t was r1ght to restore the 5 per -..Yhat the~' had lost. b>cause the pro~pcritv cent. reduetwn to those who were receiving of the ~ountry j"stified it. W c realise tha't o ver £300, it was equally right to give it to 1 the chsagr',_'ement bebvc,"n the rail·'<-vav Lwse who were receJVmg under £300 a year. employees and th court led up to the trouble That shm•,; the nec·Jssity of ha vino- some \vhich exish to-day. I, for ono, vvc1come an ~lte;·ation n:ado. in the nu~thods in opoeration alteration in the consti, uti on of the court. 1;1 ,he Arb1tratwn Court. I recognise that bee a use I honcsth- and ccnscientiouslv heUeve tno Cabmet had no alternative but to ask that it i' goi·:g 'to brin.; about mo;c indns· the men to go to the court to have their trial peace in the future than \VO have at application considered; b-t~t, unfortunately, the pre,cnt time. rno. court could not see rts vvay clear to restore the 5 per cent. to them. I would ask l\h. SWAYNE (.viiram): I do not think any hon. member if it is right and just to cny sensible person would say thaH1 _that the \\ages Boards Act was not A cufficH·nt to deal with the situation and thev be appointed from the party or by the party oppo,ite, and objection will alwavs passed the Industrial Peace Act. \Vhat \ra''l the result? I say unhesitatingly that that arise. The present system is all right in Act tormcnt.cd the workers of this State eo theory. and with some little alteration, could such an t>xtent that the workers of Queens· he made all right in practice. Ko matter land reyo)ted against it, with the result that how perfect a piece of legislation may be, it we have had a Labour Government in power must be administered impartially and fairly. for the lu:;;t ten years. The Industrial Arbitration Act is not adminis· tcred impartially. I am r.ot ref!r~cting on the The hon. member for Burnett made some judges, but have in mind the &ction taken reference to rural workers, ancl suggested by the present Government. Hc·w is it that that the Government were not game to get section 65 is never complied with? That an award. ~or them. He knows perfectly 8cction reads- "'"ll that 1t 1s not a queotwn for the Govern· ment at all; it is a question for the unions " A strike shall not be deemed to have controlling that industrv. Let me tell mv boon authorised until all the members of :-,on. friend-although I 'think he knows jus't the industrial union v:ho ar0 engaged in a;;; rnuch about these things as I do, or per­ the railing and in the dist! ict affecte.l haps more than I do-that a Commission have had an opportunity of participating ,_·as appointed to investigate the industrv. in a ballot taken at a general mc•cting I<,uoJcJiatcl:v aftcnvards the secretary of the clulv conotituterl in ac~ordanee with the Auotralian \Vorkers' l.'nion filed in the conrl rules of the union, and the 1.1<1jority have a claim -,,hi eh, was to be heard on 8th April voted in favour of such strike." last. :\Ir. Pntchard was the advocate for Further on it reads- the Council of Agriculture and for C'•rtr.in " Provided further that n0 strike or employers. and at his request the court did lockout shall be deemed to have been l'Ot s1t for sn 0ral days, and in the interim authorised unless or until the resu 1t of the la!e Chief Justice l\rcCawley died. Right the ballot or voting thercon of th~ up to the present time :\fr. W. J. Dunstan, pf'r.,ons concerned, Logethf r -with the the secretary of the Australian \Vorkers' dohils of the voting have bt:dl communi­ l-nion, has endcavour.£'d to bring about a cated to the Registrar." eettlement of that claim. The,o facts only go, to show. that thoro must be something I an1 quite safe in saying that in four cases snnster behmd the suggestion of hon. mem­ out of five that provision is igtJored, and I bers npposite that it is a question in which think I am quite safe in saying that the the GoYernment are interested. I say railway workers recently broke the law in unhesitatini(ly that the Government arc not that direction. I have aseertainr"d by ques· ultuc

prosecutions? Is the law for one side only? inflicted on a section of the community 1f the employers commit a breach of the Act, should not be possible. 'I'he pooition to-day they are pulled up at once and punished; is a gross reflection on the Government. and, if they are guilty of doing wrong, they They are supposed to administer the laws on deserve to be punished. But why should the the statute-book and bring about industrid! other side be allowed to escape when they peace; but we have not got indu5trial peace. do wrong? They break the law as often \Ve now have almost weekly strikes, yet w:J as they choose, but they are privileged. are asked to consider a vote for arbitration. It is not a good thing to have a privileged The two do not go together. class or a section who can break the We have heard a lot of talk from hon. law as often as they like and get away members opposite about ~he adoption of with it. Yet that is what is being done to-day scientific methods for the prevention of indm­ undPr the present Government. At the trial disputes, but it seems to me that it i_, present tim'e we have nearly £2,000,000 worth onl:v talk, and that those hon. members are of su g·ar hung up in the ports and in the incapable of applying these scientific methode. stores, compelling the farmers to face ruina­ Year after year they talk about arbitration, tion, creating a huge loss to th,, State and but year after year we find strikes are on tmPmployment to a large number of workers, the increase and larger losses are being and apparently there is no method under our inflicted on the community. prPsent system of arbitration whereby we can cope with the trouble. There should be. Mr. COLLINS (Bowen) : Arbitration is a ::'\aturally these awards are supposed to be •:cry big problem indeed. I am one who binding on both sides, but until both sides are believes in the evollution of arbitration. compelled to observe the terms and conditions There is no need for me to be of the a\\ ards the svstem of arbitration will [7 p.m.] continually repeating what I said not be satisfactory or fair. It is wrong that in 1915-that arbitration is not any body of men who possess privileges that the be-all and end-all of the Labour moye­ the workers of the State have should, as they went. While I believe in the evolu'!:ion of etl'P doing now, hold up the community and arbitration, I also am a strong believer in inflict untold ruin and loss on the producers. tlw evolution of. industrial unionism, and We know that the recent railwav strike cost I claim that now, after ten years of Labour the producers several hundred thousand a-dministration, we have not had that evolu­ pounds, and about £2,000,000 of sugar is at tion of industrial unionism tha~ we ought to prr,ent being held up owing to the rotary have had. 'What I mean by the €'volution strike of the waterside workers. ·where all of industrial unionism is that we should h'ave the trouble will end no one knows. Somll reached a better system of industrial "lteration should be made. It is quite a fair org-anisation, either by bringing into exi'­ thing to sav to any body of employers or t<·nce the One Big- Union or bringing about c·mplov-00s "You cannot have direct action eome kind of federation of unions so that ,end arbitration at the same time." In spit~ c;ne union, without consulting all the unions, 0£ the protests of hon. members opposite in could not involve other unions. That is what fayour of f1rbitration, wns there Qver a strike \Ye have to achieve. No matter what may be Yd when thev <1id not encourage the striker3 our opinions with regard to unionisrn I a1n "nd make out that they wE're perfectly just­ illing to admit that in the evolution oi tifted in everything the.v did I have nevr·r industry the unions have not kept pace wiih he:trd them criticise any strike. T remember that evolution. Neither have they kept pace the Sccretorv for Agriculture and the Seere­ with thP scientific progress tha-t, is going on tnrv for Public Works speaking in th0 throughout the world. Un]e,s we have a Do'r>'tin during the 1917 shippiru; sb·ike and better eystem of organisation and better moving resolutions in support of the strikers. discipline, nothing but chaos is staring tl" in the face. ~ The PRE>IIER: You supported the strike .of ume farmers in 1912. In regard to the position of 'the worke,rs, if we were to take any notice of the writings­ Mr. SW~<\ YNE : The Premier is talking nonsense. The attitude in 1917 of the hon. in capitalistic newspapers we would believe gentleman I hav'' mentioned is only typical that history proves us always to have been of the rest of the party. wrong and that we have never bec•1 right. In fact, we have generally been right and Tl-.c CHATR'fA:'\f: Order~ Order! ccldom wrong-, though "·e have had ~o wait "C\1r. SWAY;\JF;: I was simplv dealing, Mr. I•Uticntly to justify our actions in many Pollrck, with the statements ·made bv hon. cliredions. members opposite regarding their alleged ~-\ t the present time we ha vc a dispute abhorrence of direct action and their existing in this State, and, unfortunately, support of arbitra":ion. I am giving n portion of the Bowen elec~orate which I instances Bhowing that their deeds do represent is the greatest sufferer by that net coincide with their words, nnd show­ dispute. In my opinion. the blame for that: ing that. "·henever anything in the shape dispute is not to be placed in its entirety of a stnke occurs thcv are alwavs found vpon the shoulder~ of ihe workers. The nccuraging the strikers: I do n•lt think thdt r,wners of '!:he Inkerman mill, knowing, as o]omdcl be so. \'l'r, hnve the Indnstri"J Arhi­ 1 hey did, that they were going to have• to trot;on Act on om· •tatutc-book. Tbc object cie,,t] with the greatest crop of caue ever of the.t Act is to do awav with direct action :;rown on the Inkerman Estate, should haYe ond to minimise the loss thfLt occurs to thP made some effort to provide increased stor­ communih· from strikes. which at times reach c.ge to deal with the increased crop in the "'rh huge. dim<'nsions. No matter what part._,, c•ven~ of any dispute arising which might a mPmbe1~ of Parlifln1cnt belongs to it is out r•ccessitate a storage of sugar. I say of keeping \Yith his position to enC'ouragc e-mphatically that that privately-owned mill diront action when he aS5isted to make laws made no great effort at all in that direction, r!osigned to meet the situation. If the la,·· and, therefore, to some extent, the owners i~ IYrong. Jet us an1cnd it; but so long a8 w~ must shoulder the responsibility. It is all have that l"w on the statute-book it should be very well to put the responsibility of obeyed, and such huge losses as are now being the present shipping dispute in North [J:f1·. Swayne. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.) Supply. 1097

Queensland on the shoulders of the waterside tion. Further, to prove my ca.se, let me workers; but I want to say from rny place quote a letter that appeared in the " Home in Parliament-and I ha.ve evidence to prove Hill Observer" of 1st October, 1925- my assertion-that the waterside workers at Dowen have loaded ships when ships ca.me " The following appeared in the correspondence column of the ' Bowen 1nto Bowen, and they are prepared to clo Independent' of Saturday last:- It now. But how can they load ships if ships will not go there? The shipowners To the Editor, practically said, " Unless you loa.d ships ' Bowen Independent,' Bowen. under our conditions, we are not goino· to Dear Sir,-Regarding your paragraph Rmcl our ships there." The shipowners took in Tuesday's issue giving the state of up a more autocratic attitude than ever the affairs at Home Hill, I desire to point waterside worke1:s t?ok up, because, no out that there is no hold up of sugar matter what _ArbitratiOn Courts may think, on the part of the watersiders. There w_e must realise that the worker belongs to is no ' strike' of watersiders but a himself as a worker, and collectively we ' lock-out' by the companies, and that Lelong to ourselves, and we must have some being so we cannot be held responsible say in the conditions under which we W'Ork. for the loss of allegedly £3,500 per 'T'he shipowners cared not one iota about the week in wages. I.r.k9rman sugar farmers, nor about tlhe Thanking you, I am, workers who have been thrown out of work Faithfully yours, at Inkerman through the present dispute un the coast. They have entered into - EDWARDS, arrangements to ca.rry sugar f.rom Bowen Secretary, 'vV.W.F.A., Bowen." to the refineries at Sydney and Melbourne, I am reading that to make the position quite because the Bowen sugar goes either direct clc3r, and I hope that I have done so. to Sydney or Melbourne or dse it is sent Further to proye my case let me quote from overseas. Now I want to prove that boats the " Home Hill Observer " of 24th Sep­ were loaded at Bowen quite recentlv. The tember- Bowen " Independent " of 29th September " The secretary, :Mr. Goodwin, said he had this to say- ' fire,t waited upon the manager of the "SUGAR SHIPMENT. mill, :Mr. Bell in referenoe to the build­ " The French steamer ' Calonne' ing of a storage shed. Mr. Bell promised arrived iJCl por~ on Saturday morning to talk the matter over with Mr. Drys­ last and IS takmg a larg<, quantity of dale." sugar. The John Burke steamPr 'bor­ I ha Ye followccd closely the meetings of the rigo' arrived in port from the North on farmers at Home Hill, ancl up to the present Sunday and was being unloaded by the I have not seen any newspaper report show­ watersiders yesterday." ing that they got a reply from Mr. Drysdale We were led to believe that the waterside in connection with additional storage to workers were refusing to loacl boats! I have enable the mill to resume crushing. From questions I a.sked the Premier this morning, received this let~er from the Bureau of it is evident that other mills in Queens­ Central Sugar Mills, da~ed 6th October giving further figures in regard to the suga~ land are a b!e to store their sugar. Proser­ loaded on the " Calonne"- pine is another mill in my electorate, and they have had no difficulty up to the present " \Vith reference to your telephonic time in regard to the storage of sugar there. inquiry this morning I have to inform I want hon. members opposite who claim to ~·ou that the ship 'Calonne' lifted from repruent country districts to be fair and to Bowen 1,133 tons of sugar. realise that the Inkerman mill is owned b:v " Yours fai~hfully, one individu:tl, Mr. Drysdale. He clid not " K. M. TnoY, For General Manager." provi-de extra storage accommodation, but mos; millowners did, because I understand That is the position in regard to Bowen. that the privately-owned mills in Queensland As a rule we are always told to " Blame have ver:v large quantities of sugar stored the workers!" but there is a good old up-that is, if we are to believe the Press Biblical saying, "Blind guides, which stra.in reports-but, instead of making extra pro­ at a gnat and swallow a. c:tmel." "Blame vision for the storag~e of sugar, Mr. Drys­ hi!ll for everything in connection with indus­ dale immediatelY closed clown his mill, and trial upheavals "-that is the position in as usual-it is not peculiar to farmers but regard to the workers-" but for God's applicable to other people as well-there is sake don't blame the wealthy ship­ an attempt to blame the bottom dog-the owner." He is too far off to be kicked a.nd worker-for all the ills that afflict mankind. too far off to do him any harm so it is :VIr. CoRSER: The agitator. <-1lways "K!ck the worke~ !" esPecially if ilw worker Is down. That Is what has taken Mr. COLLIJ';S: If the hon. member for place through all the pages of history. We Bl1rne~t attended a meeting of the waterside must not forge'.; that we are dealing with a workers in P,owen, I suppose he would b2 Ycry impo-rtant question affecting the liYeli­ astonished at the average intelligence of the h•Jod of many peDple in my electorate, ancl men who go to make up the union. They :w ono regrets more than I do that this arc the class who arc affected. At any rate, truuble should have taken place because what I am trying to prove is this: If the after 1ny ten years' rPpresentati~n of -:h~ boats are to come in-and if I read the Bowcn electmate, I know the conditions ·decision of the Arbitration Court this morn­ under which the men who get their lh·eli­ ing aright, they could have come in-then hood from the land have to work. No companies could have taken action. If the 0nc knows their sufferings and trials better shipowners have the law on their side, why than I do, It is no use alwavs blaming did they not go into the port of Bowen and the worker when an industrial di'spnt8 takes then taken action if they so desired, as men­ pi,•.le. It takes two to make a qmn·rel, as tioned bv the court? No! Wha.t do they I wrote to the Inkerman Farmers' Associa- care about ruining 200 or 300 sugar-growers Mr. CoUins.] 1098 Supply. [ASSE:.\lBLY.] Supply;

on t.he Inkerman Estate? They are not reYerses, as we do at times, but I know that worrying about that. the great heart of the working class is Mr. CORSER: Is not the Sugar Growers' sound, and if they do make mistakes, as Association blaming the Government for it? thev do at times, they generally swing back tov:ards our party. vVe saw an illustration Mr. COLLINS : How can thev blame the of that in Xew South Wales the other day, GoYernm·ent? The Government~ do not con­ and I am satisfied that until somebody nn trol the milL If I had my w-:y, we would devise some better method of dealing with co;otrol the mill. I undcrdan~! that there is these big qucstions-I am willing that it nothing in tho Sugc.r Acquisition Act to pre· shall be done if it can be done-we have to vent U5 from controUing the mill. Tl1e a.rgu­ make the be;t use of the machinery at pro· nlcnt about industrial disputes Leing peculiar sent at our disposal. to Queensland is all moonshine. If the hon. Let me go one step further. As I haYe lTILmbcr for Toowong were in the country "·here I was born. he would bo paralyccd ;r already said, t hi", trouble affects 1ny elec­ tol'utc 1nore thnn anv other in Queensland. he ··.1 w some of the industrial disputes thc.-­ have in that countr::, which is the heart of 'Yhv did not the lnkcrman mill make use of the EP,pire. Our troubles hero are only a t:te 'trucks that ''ere place-d at its -disposal by drop in the ocean. the Railway Department to have the sugm: removed from the mill to the port et As I have said before in this Chamber. Bo,ycn? \Ye kno\v fro1n answers given to knowing the race to which I belong and to n1y que-stions this 1noruing . by ~~1e Secretar:'-­ which practically the ,., hole of this Parlia­ for Railwap that tho mill dld not take ment belongs, knowing that in Great Britain advantage of those railway trucks in the the industrial unions do not stand for arbi­ last week of September to remove ~ratiol_l, what astonishes me and Hery thinker th' Sll!,cll' from the mill. I am inclined to m th1s part:;-at least I hope so-is the think thJt mv electorate is to be made the res nits which have been obtained under arbi­ cockpit of the electoral fight in the Herhert tration. I have no hesitation in saying electorate with the object of injuring my-c'll where I stand. As I said at the commence­ on the ono hanJ and the Labour candidate. ment of this speech, I believe in the evolution 111-. Theodore. on the other. I am sorry to of arbitration; I believe in the evolution of think that we shunld have descended so low unionism. I do not believe that the last word that the farmers should be crushed and the has been said in regard to arbitration, an-d worker, at Home Hill should suffer incon­ I never expected that we would be able to Ycni·ence by being out of Tvork merely be~ausc d'.' wi t!wut strike~ _in the _transition period. of the fad that the Federal electwn 1s to VI hat 1s the transJbon per1od? I remember take nlacc. I haYe stattxl the position in the Industrial Peace Act of 1912. which the C'OlllF'(~tion with the disnute as it appears to hon. member for Mirani supported. What me. I trust that the dark cloud that now are thirte0n ye,us in the life of a State or hanga over that portion of my .eleetoratc: nation? The big industrial movement which will ooon disappear and crushing will shortly we represent-- be re'lumed and wo shall procee-d on the Mr. IVARREN: Misreprl'·',ent. even tenor of oqr way. It will be very hard to 1nake a recoverv. I know that, and no Mr. _COLLIXS: Xo-represent. The man kno>'·"S it bette'r than I do. \V

a resolution to the effect that, if the mills That is the cause of this trouble. The hon. v;;ould a·c1Yance sufficien1 for \vages, they were member for Bowcn mav talk as much as he quitu content to go without their own mane~ like,, but he cannot get away from tho fact for the tin1e being. \Yhen 600 farm.ers come that the rotary c;ystcm is the cause of the tog·;.,ther nnd pass a resolution like that, it hold-up in the sugar industry. That is why F-hcnr3 that the position is n1ost serious. This tho farmers are suffering and are facing s ateHH'·!H dc~rribing the position v~~as read ruin. at tltat 1uceting- Mr. HARTLEY: 'The rohry system was carried by a majority vote of all branches. " RoT.\RY SY:'TEu ExPLAINED. Mr. S\Y A Y?\E: And tumed down bv · • T~_.i,;; is a systt?m impo,:,ed by a the court. It. is di:=:gusting thut tho Goverll­ d- oi,ion of the Rockhampton conference ment cannot cope with the position 'f head executive of \V.\V.F. and n.nd can do nothing to relieve the pro­ by the branches, under direction .~.'L :ille, and ~laryborough haY·e rein _cl to enforce it. und on reference in :Mr. DEACO?\ (Cvnningharn): It is very Bri~L~111e bv St._'crct ballot to tho n1em~ intercoting to hear the statements of hon. be-. of the-\V.\V.F. it was turned down n1on1Lers on the GoYerument side in regard b.·.- ;di o\·cnvhelrning majority, yjz .. '..._1\r.o to tho Arbitration Court. It seems to me ,:.u i11 favour of putting into effect a that the atti·~·udo of those hon. mdmber.s rr:•ui.J·y ~ystf'nl ?' For, 493; against, 937: Yaric·. from blind faith in, to open contempt 1,430. l\bjority against the pro- Df. tbc court. 444.'' OPPOSITION 1\-lK"·~BERS : He;;-orkers of Cairns, Innisfail, Bowen, between different parties and to decide what Mackav. and Bunda.berg, and because the is fair. Nobody 0xpec"' that both parties watersi'dc worker; in Brisbane and Towns­ Y ;n approve of all decisions; but it is the ,-ille declared against ihe rotary system clutv of the Government in power to insist the hranchi.S of the union at the other ports npo-:n respect being paid to decision, of the refused to work the sugar cargoes. That ll'dustrial Court judges. The least the shows what will happen when members of Government can do is to back up that a union fall out amongot themseh-es. The authori~y, bnt they have never attempted unfortunate part of the dispute is that the to do that. The only time they take any proclw or is suffering although it has nothing elcns to uphold tho authority of the court to do with him or the mill that is crushing is ~hen the decision is against the employers, hi;, cane. I have already pointed ont that and then thoy are .-ery quick to act. If the ,ugar grower hac; expressed his willing­ any e:mployer art.::; in a way contemptuous to ness temporarily to forego all profits for his the court, he is hdd up very quickly_ ~-cEJr's \Vork :::o long as he can get sufficient Mr. DASH: Oh, no. L10n0v to pa:, his wages bill. I fail to see why th2 Inkerman mill should be pal'ticularly Mr. DEACON: The hon. member knows singled ont. I realise my time is .,hort, and that, if any employe,r shows cou~emp~ of I comc.)uently haYe not the time to go into the court, he is very quickly pullccl np and this qm:stion as fully as I might. The ques­ fined; but no action is taken when the boot tion at issue is surnn1ed up in tbe following is on tho oth0r foot. This is "·hat the hon, Jl _ragntph :- HH?Inber for Bowcn said when dealiDg with ·' The result of rotary work has been I)Je industrial situation and the tro1\blc in disastrous. as .tated by Mr, Justice the North- }I,;cnaughton, a.nd only increases costs " Tho shipowners take up tho atti£ude and de,;troys efficiency, and to adopt it that, unless the ships are loaded under e,~en under anv circun1stances is their conditions, the ships will no~ go to cl~ng0rous to life, and property, as the Bowcn." unski1l, d man has to tako his turn irre­ How can the men expect ships to call at ~pe'l'tive of his efficiency." Bowen when the waterside workers ·-vill not Mr, Deru:nn.] 1100 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

.adhere to the existing conditions and work court." They fixed the court-that is what those ships? Are not the men to blame in they did. the first place? They have an awaNl of ~he The CHAIRMAN : Order ! Do I under­ court and a court to apply to, but they stand the hon. gentleman to cast a reflection would not go to that cou~t. Instead, they on the court ? said, " If the shipowners will not load in our way, we will not load the ships at all." Mr. DEACON: I did not catch what you Wha"c is the use of having an Arbitration said, Mr. Pollock. Cly. late_ly it was decided to bring the the country is now being put in the melting­ farmmg mdustry under an award of the pot by the present Administration. They can­ court. What will be the position of the not have the thing botH ways. The Govern­ farmers? Are they going to have the same ment t{)-dav do not want the Arbitration liberty 'to disregard awards of the court as Court. but 'when hon. members opposite are the unions have? What is fair for one speaking outside they do want the Arbitra­ 'hould be fair for the other. tion Court. There is one outstanding feature Mr. CoLLINS : They took good care not to in regard to the present Government-they come under the court. "re leaderless, and some members are saying one thing and other members are saying Mr. DEACON: We cannot help coming other things. under the jurisdiction of the court becau&e we have been brought under it by the The CHAIRMAN : Order ! The remark& Government, and whatever is s~ipulated by of the hon. member have nothing to do with ;he court now must be obeyed . the vote. . Just l'?ok _at ?Ul' position. Only this year Mr. KERR: The different viewpoints set m. certa1.n distncts the wheat crop has been out by members of the Labour party to-da,v Wiped right out. All the money that has arc having an effect in the country. As far been expended on seed and on labour and as I am permitted, I int·sion of this vote, but on this side we strike by the court. Rt:ad to--day's paper. considm· the interests of both sections who Now the hon. member is deserting his com­ >He entitled to representation before the court. rades. The old, old story! Because the One hon. member stated that he would like to Chamber of Commer~e at Bowen passed a see One Big Union, but that would be most resolution of no confi·dence in this Govern­ undemocratic in this country. \Vhy should ment and asked them to resign tlw hon. One Big Union control the whole of our indus­ member changes his attitnde. tries? Mr. COLLIXS: Ko, no! I will not run Mr. BRTICE: Do you refer to the shipping away. ·combine? Mr. KERR: I do not want to attack the Mr. KERR: The hon. member is talking hon. member-(Government laughter)-but I through his hat. The Chairman will not let <'anno~ sit down and listen to statements me deal with that ma'tter. Lot me show the euch as those which have been made to-night. l10n. member the factors which ought to be 'I'bey only deceive the people. Thi; vastly considered in making an Arbitration Court important question of arbitration will be an award. There is the cost of raw material, i,;suo at the next election, and, wha!. is Df fuel, light, salaries, wages, and profits. more, it is going to be a vital issue in the If hon. members will study those considera­ r resent Federal elee':ion. Who have shown tions, they will find the only possible economic the way in this respect? The Bruce-Page basis for an award. What is the good of Government. (Government laughter.) The asking for a wage of £10 a week or £5 a t.iay of the Arbitration Court as a State w-eek, as sugge,ted bv Mr. Piddington, if ir"trumentality is over, and there is only industry cannot pay it? If industry cannot cne solution. I would ask hon. members to pay it, there is only one possible consequence. carry thPir minds back to federation, when I can quite see that hon. members opposite free trade between the States wa' e'tab­ want to abolish arbitration and put in its Ji,hcd. place a plank of their platform-to socialise 'I'he CHAIRMAN : Order ! industry and give to the workers the whole control of it. I can underst!1nd their object, Mr. KERR: In connection with the but· they are not truthful. They do not come administration of the Arbitra~ion Court we out into the open and say that that is their have to consider the direction in which it intention. They will not admit that they is moving and wha~ action will possibly want to undermine the arbitration laws. I follow. The day of the Arbitrr,tion Court as know that later on in the session we shall a State instrumentality is passing. anci it have an opportunity of discussing the appoint­ will eventually have to be taken over by the ment of a layman to the Arbitration Court Fe-deral authorities. and the constitution of a board of trade. I Mr. HAP.TLEY: The Federal Comtitution think that the true intention of that proposal will not allow ihat to be done. is to strike the first blow at the judicial Mr. KERR: I know that the Common­ power of the Arbitration Court. Mr. The'D­ wealth Government submitted the matter to dore, when in this Chamber-when he was the people, and the people certain!~· refused able to lead the party so that they knew to grant them that ex~ra power. where they were-did not stand aside or side­ Mr. HYNES: Are you in favour of the track the issue. When he was Secretary for h>tnding over of State instrumental!ties to Public Works and introduced the present Act, the Commonwealth Government? he said- Mr. KERR: I shall inform the hon. " The chief virtue of the Bill is that it gentleman all in good time. Hon. members creates the court." f•nposite do not seem ":o realise that it is \Ve know that. He went on to say that the e-ssential to have a system of arbirration in court was infallible in its judgment. i he conduct of our 'business. \V e are all The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: When aware that the talk indulged in by hon. <:lid he say that? wcmbers opposite with rega-rd t<> combines deceives nobody. The day of alleged com­ Mr. KERR: He said it in his speech on bines has absolutely passed in Australia. the second rea-ding of the Bill in 1916. (Government laugMer.) Hon. members may The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: \Vhat i·ofer to insurance companies, l:ut the are you quoting from? majority of them are mutu~l companies. Vnless some altera.tion is made in the Mr. KERR: I am quoting from " Han­ administration of the Queensland Arbitration sard." He said that the Act would create Court its life will shortly be ended. By a ne'v era so far as arbitration was con­ that I mean that the Governmont should not ,cerned. I believe that statem-ent. But, as in interfere with it in any way. If the everything else, if you have something and Government interfere with it, eventually you set out to undermine it, you have to the only arbitration oystem that will be take the consequences, and the Government rncognised wi!i be that under the control had to take the consequences in the recent of the Commonwealth Government. induetrial upheaval. They have to take the consequences -every day. It is all Yery well Mr. HYNES: Did not your party wish to 'for the hon. member for Bowen to stand up npset the Dickson award? Mr. Kerr.] 1102 Supply. [ASSE:VIBLY.] St

Mr. KERR : \Vhy does the hon. member They are asking the electors of the Common­ not go back to the stone age, like the hon. weaith to support them in that stand, and member for Bowen? the sensible men and women of Queensland, l\11-r. BRUCE: That is where you con1e from. including unionie-ts, will stand behind the :\fr. KERR: Fortunately, there are in the only Government in Australia which can give Opposition lllCinbers \vhose yiews nro :r:ot the security that this State more than any v. m·pecl. \Ve on this side arc out io grve other so much needs. the working man just as good tr!"atment as Mr. KELSO (~Tnndah): I listened very i-, offered by hon. members opposite. earefulh· to the speech of the hon. member GovrRXMEXT MEMBERS interjecting. for Bm;en, and it seemed a pity to have to The CI-L URMAX: Order! I ask hon. listen to the tripe and hambug which he handed out to us. vVe have only to remem­ rncrnbcTs on LlY r!ght to restrain then1selves~ ber that th8 hon. member declared the other in the sanl(~ "'<1"a'.r as I ask hon. me-mbers of tho Opposition to restrain themselves when a afternoon, " Thank God, '"e still have the GovPrn:ment n1ember is speaking. strike behind us." :.Ir. C'OLLIKS: Mr. Pollock. I ", ,, ::\Ir. KERR: I wish to point out to hon. point of order. I rhallen1-re the hr _J. -r members opposite that tht law of arbi-tration fo1· -:-..;undah to produce." I-IansrrrrP' ~na sho· appli0R to er.:'ployers' associations as well ,,-here I said "Thank God we Mill have the '" to tmrle unione. If the Arbitration Court 'trike behind us." Dl(''•IlS anything at all, it means that satis~ fa:..ti- n should not be given to only one The CH_\JRMA""<: Order! Order: '·-"'"· but should be available for the purpose Mr. KERR: That is your policy. of Lri:nging parties together and sotDiing f{isputc,, for the trood of all concerned. ::111-. COLLJXS: I ask that the hon. member The GoYernn1cnt have done wrong in ignor­ for Xundah should withdraw that statement. u,g the basic principle of the court 'l'hey The CHAIRI\1A~ : Order ! The hon. have nsnrped the functions of the court with member must accept the denial of the hon. l'PS}X'l t to fixi11g hours and wages. The basic !ncmber for Bowen. J•rincipl<' of arbitration is that, if an indu~try is not of aYerage prosperity, then :\fr. KELSO: I accept the denial of the ir, r. ceiYcs differtnt treatment £r')ll1 that hon. member for Bowen. I say that on l-;.lPted out to an industry in a more for­ various occasions he has led us to believe tllnato position. by interjections across the Chamber that he believes in the worker ha.ving t-h,, right to \Vhat has been the position of the Railway strike. He is blowing hot and cold. Department in the Arbitration Court' Because the Hailway Department was not Mr. COLLINS: That is a right the~· hRYc payiHg- it-3 \Ya;·. the Rajlway Con1n1issioner under the Industrial Arbitration Act. went intc- the court and stated that it was an Mr. KELSO: I am a'vare of that, but industry that- v.-as not of average prosperity. the conditicns attaching to the right to strike Let ll1P ay in passing that if the railY ays as laid cloy n bv the ~\et were not observed ,,,err: a paying proposition, and ,,,ere able to in the n eeni ra1lwav strike. The hon. mem­ 'lay not onl~, the ordinary expenditure but bor is indulging in- special pleading. As a the interest o:~ the capital invested, that matter of {o,ct., his trouble is that some of argument "-ould ncYer have been used, and his constituents in the Hmne Hill district the r'agcs of th~ railway men would never ha;,·c be"n stirring him up, and. in order to have been reduced. lt is no argument to say .:ustify his actions, he is endeavouring to that the reHtals of land and so forth should mak -, out that tho shipping combinP ~re pre­ haYe been taken into consideration 'vhen Yenting thC' 'vaterside 1-vorker::- fro111 considering the wc,ges question. If the whole -r orking. lot were taken into consideration they would Mr. HARTL<:Y: Hear, hear! That is a fact. not Sf]Uare the account. This is too impor­ tent a vot<' fOl· hon. members oppoeitc, Mr. KELSO: I would like to as:c the hon. whos0 speeches v.-ill bo c·ircnlrtted throughout mcrnher for Bowen if he has read the deci­ the length and breadth of the State, to sion of the Full Bench of the c\rbitration n it to n.tt-!n1pt to destroy the faith of th' Court that was given to·day in relation to \Vorkers in the ,y~stH11 of arbitration. i he dispute among the waterside workers over There is a gnat deal of trouble in connec­ the rotary system.? If he has not, I ask him tion with i.he strike of the British seamen, to read that decision. I will quote a few hut I do not intend to go into the rights or words from it. wl·on~ -; of that dispute. The Government Mr. CoLLINS : You nee-d not quote it; I should sa,.· to the workers: "·The Arbitra· ha. Ye already rea.d it. tion Com:t is there, and you will have to i\Ir. KELSO : Then the hon. member must abide by its decisions." If hon. members on know perfectly well that his argument to­ the other side, in their speeches in the night cannot hold, for the Full Bench declared Domain and the Trad(·' Hall, say that arbi· that thG members of tho \Vaterside Workers' tration must go, there is only one inevitable Federation at Bowen and Innisfail were conclusion to be faced, and that is that the clearly r,uilty of taking part in a strike. Is authority of this State will go, too. the hon. gentleman prepared to accept that Mr. HYXES: How is it that :Mr. Bruce has decision? not settled the seamen's strike? Mr. CoLLINS: Read a little further on. Mr. KERR : Mr. Bruce will settle that JI.Ir-. KELSO: That is the decision of the strike in his own good time; make no mis· three judges of the court. take abont that. Mr. HARTLEY: It is opposed to and con­ GovERNMENT MEMBERS: Oh! ficts with t-he decision that the court had Mr. KERR: The Bruce·Pagc Government previously given. have taken a stand on law and order, and Mr. KELSO: I was waiting for that have declared that arbitration is the law. remark. The hon. member for Fitzroy last [Mr. Kerr. Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1103

,,,sion t.old us that he did not believe in the opposite know perfectly well that the Arbi­ A rbitrdiion Court. tration Court can nPver be a success under Mr. HARTLEY: I never did. I said it was such conditions, and if the State Govern· mcnt dictate as to \vhat the court shall do. a failure, and ought to be altered. :\1r. HYNES: The hon. member for Oxley The SECRETARY FOR AGRICuLTURE: The State Government never dictated what the eaid that. court should do. \Ir. KELSO : The hon. member for Fitz­ roy told us that he did not believe in the Mr. KELSO : It is all verv well to sa v the State Gm·crnment n0ver dictated -· ha:t Arbitration Court. the court should do. !IIr. H.mTLEY: I did not. I s"id it was a The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTrRE : They irrilure. haYe not, The GoYcrnrncnt. ha•:e neYcr at alH~ Mr. KELSO: What is the difference? tir:nC' dictated to tho court. . The hon. n1c1nber is only splitting straws. Mr. KELSO: I accept the hon. gentle­ H th, unions arc not prepared to accept man:s statcn1ent that the Governrncnt nen:r the dc-:ision of the Arbitration Court, why do directly clictatcd- rht> not sa·.· so and let us go back to The SECRETARY TOR AGRIC1JLTURE: ;\)either the. "' hitratinent' of the strike? If )'DU are to have a fair deal, you must consider cli rt:ctl:v 1101' indirectly. rhe emplo:·or as well as the emp,Joyee,_ and ::\ense. eC··t of living, "hen it is de~ided upon by J.lr. KELSO: \'\'e can judge only by what the judge, but when the time comes that has t \krn place. Until unionists an~ pre­ thu judges of the court, after studying the rr,red to carry out the principles of m·bih·a­ economi'cs of the subject, decide that it is tion, until the:~ plaL~ thcmselv0s unre­ the right. thine; for w.tges to be reduced, serYc-diY in the hfmds of the cnurt and r'u,oe ]Wople sa:,- thev will not agree to the abide by the decisions of the court. we recLdion. In effect they say, "vVe will take chall haYe chaos rtnd shall merely be invit­ ell vou can give. but 1re will not acc~ept illg- strik~s. r~nv Lrc·dnction." Is that a, fair principle? Is Now let me put it from the c cnployers' it · be expected that th•' Arbitration c-1 point of yirn-.'\·. Is it a fair thing, as hon. Court wiil bo respected when it iB known members on ll1is side have asked, that the that, so long as ·wages n.rc increased, they E'1nplo~ er, simply because he has assets, Jnust --,ill be aceeptcd, but when they are obcv the dictate~ of the Arbitration Court decreased. by reason of a reduction in the 1Yhi.le the e,oployo-e has not to do eo? If of livinc:, thcv will not be accepted 1 lwn. members on the other side have any It a doublc-hearled penny. sense of fairm -s, surely they must recogni'·e ;11r. FOLEY: Do YOU think tho cost of t-hat -..vhat i~ sauce for the goos.e is sauce for h\¥ing a fair basi; upon 1shich to give 1he f'andcr, and, if that principle is departed a\vards? from. 1'- e may as well wipe the Industrial :\fr. KELSO : That is not for me to say. Arbitration Act. off the statute-book. Th< Arbitration Court is the place where }Ir. DASH (,1Iunrlinghurra): I wish to that should be decided. VIe are paying rcpl~~ to the remarks of hol).. me"nbers oppo~ three judges high salaries, and they have site, and especially those of the hon. member g-one into the matter. The late lamented for Enoggera, who stated that the Common­ Chief Justice McCav.ley made a study of vvcalth is guing to do everything pos;,ible to this matter-he had years of experience bring about the millennium. The hon. mem­ from an economic point of view-and he ber for Enoggera will renw'11her that a came to a certain decision. Surely hon. fe\V years ago a Yote was taken throughout members opposite arc not going back on the Commonwealth on the question of giving the decision of th<' late Chief Justice the Federal Government more power to deal l\icCawley? If the men are not prepared with arbitration. The workers of Australia to accept such a decision, the whole prin­ were in favour of granting the Federal ciple of arbitration goes by the board. Government the power asked for, but hon. \Ve ca,nnot have our cake and eat it. members opposite, who were opponents of Take the trouble that occurred during the arbitration at that time, were successful in eccent railway strike. The Arbitration securing a vote against the alteration of the Court was absolutely flouted. Hon. members Constitution whereby a better sy',tem of Mr. Dash.] 1104 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

arbitration could ha.ve been placed on the the Arbitration Court arc 30 per cent. better statute-book of the Commonwealth. I am than what they would have receivAd from a of the opinion that the Prime Minister can e<·stem of direct action without any way of do no more than he is doing at the present b'ringing the parties together. Whao would time until he has further authority from have been the position in Queensland du·r­ the people by way of a referendum. ing the last five or six years if we had had The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: The no Arbitration Court to appeal to'! In the Bruce-Page Government tried to hamstring sugar and mining industries and the railways our Arbitration Act at the Premiers' Con­ the representatives of the men and the fer-ence that was held after the last Federal employers have come together when strikes elections. have taken place and agreed ~o go to the court and abide by its decision. Many a Mr. DASH: A g·ood deal has been said by ecrious dispute has been averted, because hon. members opposite with regard to the one union will not " scab" on anDther Government having interfered with the func­ union, and the effect of a strike in one tions of the Arbitration Court. The Gov-ern­ industry brings out unions in other industries ment have done nothing of the kind. Hon. in eupport. It is a good thing for the worker' members opposite have also stated that the to be able to say, " Our wage is fixed, and employers must carry out the award of the we can demand it bv law instead of resorting court while the employees need not do so. to the old method of striking or waiting at The employees are in the same position as the workhouse gates or the mine to be given the employers, and, if a union does not carry work." In the old days managers said to the out the award of the court, there is power men. "\Ye can give you work, but the under the Act to prosecute it. That is what conditions of the industry are SD bad that the court pointed out to the shipping com­ we cannot pay you £3 a week ; we can panies this morning when they applied for ouly give you 20s. or 25s. a week so as to an injunction to restrain a branch of the keep you in work." That was the system Waterside Workers' Federation. The court adopted when the men had no other redress. said that there was no necessitv to issne a I ,-iould be sorry to see arbitration thrown restraining order, as there was ample power oYe·rboard for the purpose of get~ing back under the Act for the shipping companies lo the old system of supply and demand to prosecute members of the \Vaterside und tr_,~ing to gain by strikes what we are \Vorkers' Federation. Up till now, so far entitled to get. \Ve shall have an oppor­ as I can remember, no prosecutions have been tunity later on of discussing an amendment instituted by either side for a breach of the of the Arbitration Act which no doubt will Industrial Arbit1·ation Act. It is all very i>P o£ great benefit to industry. fine for the employers to say that they have to carry out the award. So have the The hon. member for Bm·nett said some­ employees. thing to-day . in connection with_ fa:m The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: The la bourer.s commg under the Arb1tratwn Director of Labour frequently prosecutes Court. An Indust·rial Board was appointed employees for breaches of awards. to make inquiries into the agricultural industry. Mr. DASH: I was referring to breaches Tho SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC ''VORKS: By the of the Act, but, as the Minister has inter­ court. jected, the Director of Labour has on many occasions prosecuted both employees and Mr. DASH: 'I'he board was composed of employers for breaches of awards. Hon. employe-rs and employees, and it took members opposite have said that this party (·Yidence throughout Queensland. I under­ is opposed to the Arbitration Court. That stand that the Government paid the whole of is not correct. As a member of the Labour the expense. party I stand wholly for arbitration; but I The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: That believe the time has arrived for some other is oonTct; we footed the bill. method of arbitration to be adopted. In justice to the new President of the Arbitra­ }Ir. DASH: This Industrial Boo.rd took a tion Court, I wish to say that up till now he lot of evidence. Every empiDyer in the has not had a fair go. When the late Presi­ acrricultural industry had a chance to state dent died the Full Bench had heard the evi­ his case, and th-e employees had the same dence in regard to the basic wage, and Mr. opportunity. Justice Webb had no say whatever in the At 8.15 p.m., decision .arrived at. It was simply handed }1r. GLEDSON (Ipswich), one of the pa:1el of to him to carry on, and no matter how much Temporary Chairmen, relieved th0 Chauman he might have been inclined to increase the in the chair. basic wage over £4 a week, he had no authority under the Act to do so without a :.Jr. DASH: The chairman of the board further sitting of the Full Court bench. £'aYe his decision as to what he thought should be done. ·when it was placed before the The union of which I am a mernbt>r and a court the ~\ustralian Workers' Union made ,·ioe-prP>ident has stood for years and years application for the hearing. The hearing was in favour of arbitratiDn. Some of those who fixed. but the representative of the employers say that arbitration has to go and we have stated that he would not be able to attend the to resort to some other method in its place court on that dav and an adjou"nment was have not had much experience of strikes. made. During the interval the Fresident. of If they had been in the position of strikers the court died. Since then the Australian ·.vho have had to tighten up their beh.s every \Yorkers' Union has constantly appealed _to morning that they have had to remain out the court for the Full Bench to go on wtth on strike against conditions which couW the case. rossibly be settled by arbitration, they WOI.Jld think differently. Many a sPrious dispute ::VIr. CosTELLO: Do not be afraid. It will has been settled by arbitration, although not come on before the State elcdions. etrikes have taken place. The imprm·ed con­ ::\Ir. DASH: The hon. member must _have ditions which have been secured far the some influence-and yet he .talks about mfl_u; workers during the last ten years through' cncc' in this party ! I t-hmk the case wtl. [211r. Dash Supply. [7 0CTOBER.1 Supply. 1105

·come 011 very shortly. Hon. members oppo­ statistics on which he worked were correct. ~ite are at all times damning the court with then such was the case, because the cost of faint praise, and, if Parliament is sitting liviug had decreased, I think, by 11.6 per when the award is made, we •hall hear n cent. He reduced the basic wage by 5 per howl from hon. members opposite about thn cent., leaving th vernment by the proposed legislation to pro­ St.ate Arbitration Court judges-have paid vide the facilities for our Arbitration Court too much attention to bringing a bout indus­ judges in the futurP, so that they will be tnal peace rather than to giving justice in in a better position to award a portion of the their awards. On that occasion I quoted increased productivity to the wage workers rxtracts from a number of declarations bv in industry. Mr. Justice Higgins. One could come to no <}ther conclusion but that throughout his A good deal has been said about the use • rcupancv of the position of President of the of the strike weapon, but I would point out Federal Court of Conciliation and Arbitration to hon. members opposite that no matter he seemed to think that the one object of his what legislation is introduced by any Govern­ awards should be not to give absolute justice ment, whether it be a Labour Government to the workers on the claims which came or any other Government, it cannot do away ~,eforP him but to bring about industrial pcac.e with the strike weapon. No matter what, m the community. If that is the object of legislation is pass.ed, workers in the Yarious Arbitration Court judges-and the great bodv industries throughout the Common weal! h. nf workers recogni8e that it is s-o-ono can and, as a matter of fact, throughout the quite understand the discontent which has world, will at times take matters into their arisen throughout the Commonwealth with own hands and go on strike. No legislation our present arbitration system. can prevent that. The only effective step to It has been stated by hon. members opno­ take is to gaol the individual ho break> site that the workers will have to declare the law. Hon. _members must realise the their attitude towards arbitration. It is true fallacy of such a step. How could the 18,000 that for some years past the workers of railway workers who went on strike recently Australia have accepted the Arbitration be gaoled? To fine them would also be Court decisions when they meant increasing ineffective. They would refuse to pay their wages, but as soon as the cost of living fell fines and would revert to the old strike and the nominal wage was decreased, w~ meihods. How could one expect the Oppo­ lceard disgust expressed everywhrre we went sition, as they have claimed, to bring p,bout amongst the workers. tho abolition of the strike method bv legisla· tion, or by any other method? Prior to M1'. KELSO: I am glad to hear you admit entering Parnament I worked in n1any that. industries. I worked in the bush in big carnps of timber workers, on the wharves, :\fr. FOLEY: My reason for emphasising down the min£"s, in 1 he canofields, and in · t.hat fact is not because I recognise that there various other industries. and obtained an has been an actual decrease in wages. ·when idea of the psychology o.f the great mass of " the basic wage judgment was given, I think the workers. I have known of instances of in 1922, reducing the basic wage by 5s. a men on strike practically watching their week, the late President McCawley pointed children starve rather than give in on the out that in giving his decision he was not principle on which they came out. Rightly or actually reducing the wages at alL If the 1925-3 y M1'. Foley.] 1106 Supply. [ASSK\IBLY.] Supply.

\Hongly. they insisted that they were fight­ 1wt been through the bame grind of indus­ iLg for a gr:_:at principle. Per~onally: I an1 t,·ial trouble as the rank-and-file members of one of those v:ho consider that arbitration, tbe railway service. properly administered, is the best method of ,(ljusting industrial disputes. That is al'"') :\clr. KELSO: Tim 11oroney and Rymer. the opinion of the gr.£::oat 1nass o£ the \\orkcrs ::\Ir. l'OLLOCK: I am not mentioning any in Quecn~land and Australia. But if arbi­ n~, rne:-;. They ar·~ not confined to one or l ration is not properly adJnini'tered . .and if our judges of the Arbitration Court have rwo indiYiduals, unfortunately. There a,re ; et full faci!itieo for informing themselveo, qliite a ntnnbcr of n1en who say :trbitration with regard to th0 position of the various i' of no u·e to them. The 7ime has come ir:,Ju~triPs IYith which tlwy ar·c dealing, WP for plain speaking in that regarC:. These can expect further trouble in the future. I 1•eople, \Yho, I bdiove, do not repre.'ent the hope dutt the machinery which will be eetab­ considered epinions of the ·.vholc of the lished a, a result of legislation which will J •. ihYay rn0n or of anything like a majority be pnsscrl later in the sc~"ion 1vill have thr ;_.f the railway 1nc·n-are saying that arbitra- effcC't of giving gre1ter facilltic"' to out· 1 ion doe" not suit them, because a. La Lour jndgc~ and enabling thctation hands in Quecncland were a.ncl employee. Thoro is a species of indi­ shockingly undel'-paicl, but they •vere unablu vidual who believes that because a strike is to secure a hearing from the Federal Arbi­ disastrous to the employer it must be bene­ tration Court, and the constitution of that ficial to the employee; but I would remind CC·Lll't has not changed since then. Until the that type of individual, honest as he may be QuPemland Labour party came into offieo -and thero are some of them quite honest­ and c ctablishcd. th._. Arbitration Court which that there is such a thing as disaster to both we have to-clay, with its provisions for rapid parties. The thing that is disastrous to an approach by either employer or employen for f'mployer is sometimes just as disastrous to a hearing. no a-ward \vas gained by sh,.t.ion the employee, and there is no advantage in hands. To-dav \ve find no evidcrlcc of a robbing yourself of good. conditions simply r:trikc on any Statjon in Queensland, nor has to hit the employer one in the neck. I have there been an2' evidence of strikes ·during the never seen any advantage in that, and I pasl seven or eight years. There may have believe the great rank and file of the Labour been an isolated case of disput,e about wages mov,•ment can see no advantage in it either. or conditions; but, generally speaking, the I believe they do not stand for the policy of principle of arbitration, while not as satis­ direct action that is preached by the gentle­ factory as everybody Jnay desire, has never­ men to whom I have referred. theless resulted in no disnutes whatever Mr. KELSO: What about trying the secret >tmong the station hands. That speaks for ballot to see how it works? itself. It shows that the majority of the workers in that industry, at any rate, are Mr. POLLOCK : There is ample provision content to stand bv arbitration and the nolicv in the Arbitration Act for the use of the of this Government in that regar-d. - - Mr. Polloc~;.] llOS Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

There is one n1atter in connection \Vith I want to pursue that suhjeot by saymg that. which I am afraid a good many mistakes are when you arrive at the amount of increased made even by hon. members. I am not W('alth production for a given year, you must going to pose as one of the most learned men be able to deduct from that the nnciunt paid on the point. but I know that a great deal in all kinds of taxation to the Government. of loos€ talk is going on which does not tend which the employer does not receive, and the to secure the obedience which should be amount of money actuaily and necessarily shown by all men who approach the court in put back into industry, and then you cad regard to the observance of its mandates and nrriYe at the excess wealth production, and a'vards. vou can base awards and judgments on that :\1r. KELSO: .There is no respect for the evidencp and information. At any rate, we ·court. shall then not be m the position of having the stump orator-and stump orators are very Mr. POLLOCK: That applies equally as JH'cessary gentlernen-in possessiC'n of infor­ often to employers as to employees. There mation which is inaccurately collected and is no fixed rule in that regard, exceJ,>t that can only mislead the general public and the sometimes the employer is more eas1ly got workers in particular. I have no objection to at, but nobody has any control over that.. swmp orators. 'We have all been stump If thP hon. member will look up the list of orators in our time, and still are when prosecutions, he will see the Director of O' generally for the Govern­ anv amendment of the law in the direction of ment to be in such a position as to allow this ar;·iving at an accurate estimate of the loose information to get out when it can only surplus wealth production must tend to in­ mic!ead "'·enbodv concerned. I believe that crease the efficiency of the court. Some people '\rbitrat.ion is a complete success viewed from have said that the increase of wealth produc­ anv standpoint. tion in Queensland last year was £17,000,000. :\Ir. KELSO: The principle of it. That has been said by eomebot:l_v. That is likely not only to mislead public men but it is Mr. POLLOCK: As a matter of fact, the al'o likely to mislead men who are asking application of it. to date has been a comp_lete for an award into believmg that they ought success. Thel'E• have been rare occas10ns to get more than they actually do get, come­ when it may not have been, but I am speak­ quPr,tlv it makes them discontente-d with the ing- of it as a general rule. Arbitration gene­ award .. of the court. If a means were devised rally has been a complete success. I ask wherebv accurate information could be any man to go to any person who is working obtaine.d for the guidance of the court and under an Arbitration Court award, and has put at the disposal of all workers for their a legal olaim on any money due from his perusal, so that they could see that they were employer, and who knows what he is going getting a fair thing, it would tend in the to receive before he commences work without direction of inducing th•• men to obey the going to the employer, and who knows full awards. But while this loose talk goes on well that he can go to any court in the land about the employer making £17,000,000 extra and claim the a" ard rate of wages fixed by pro~t and the employee getting about nn independent court for that class of work, £50,000 as his share of it, we must have tmd ask hirn if arbitration is a success. If he dis~ontent. is honest~ he \vill say " Yes." Pnsonc.llv I do not think we have any ma·:hinery in Queensland to-day by which we An 0PPOSJTION MEMBER : Quite true. can accui·atPly determine what the wealth Mr. POLLOCK: All things considered. production of this State Is. In fact, I know hon. members are paid a very fair salary-I 've ha Ye not; yet we have an authority like am not going into the merits or demerits of Mr. Piddington stating that the wealth pro­ that matter-yet I have seen a strike even by duction of Queensland is a certoin amount. hon. members. ln my opinion that sort of propaganda is usr:-h ~- JYir. FRY: Don't let out any secrets. :Mr. KELSO : Another expert set himself up Mr. POLLOC'K : I am talking of a strike to contradict him. tbat occurred in this Chamber the other night. Mr. POLLOCK: I contradict him-not that I have the exact figures but that I know ::\1r. KELSO: Not on this side. \Ye have no 1neans of ascertaining it. JYir. POLLOCK: Yes, on that side. A Mr. KELSO: Can the Registrar-General not strike is a Etoppage of work which you are do it? paid to carry out, and whether you be a member of Parliament or an ordinary toiler Mr. POLLOCK: If the hon. member asks him. he will find that he has not got th,e with a pick and shovel it makes no differ­ necessarv machinery to estimate the wealth "ncP. It is no use picking out exceptions. production. He can only give a rough guess. The genN·al rule proves that arbitration has bc0n well worth the effort and the experi­ Mr. COLLINS: I will not have that if there ment in bringing it to its present position. is any guesswork about it. Mr. KELSO: Therf' is no record of interstate Mr. VOWLES (Dalby): Hon. members on trac!e. this side ag-ree with the hon. member for Gregory in his remarks so far as the prin­ Mr. POLLOC'K: The Government are ciple of arbitration is concerned, but we have .going to introduce a Bill to try to find out. come to the conclusion that the application []}h. Pollock. Supply. [7 OcTOBER.} Suppl~·· llO!J of thH principii' of arbitration is a very dif­ duction in Queensland is a very changeable ferent thing from the theory of it. Arbitra­ quantity. What might be called the wealth tion is acceptable to hon. members opposite production last year will not be the wealth and their supporters so long as it suits them; production this year. We know that there but i.he employers are compelled to accept it are huge losses this year in many of our whether they like it or not. Our policy with primary industri0s. We know that the respect to arbitration is well defined. We Tcturns from our wheat industry will be believe in the principle and the spirit of very much diminished. It might be claimed arbitration, but we say that both sides should that wag.es can be fixed on the basis of be bound, and unless both sides are to be wealth production one year, yet in the fol­ hound bv an award or a decision of the court lowing year industry might not be able to then the whole thing is futile. bear what is now the fixed rate of wages. The hon. member for G'regory referred to There is a principle in the Industrial Arbi­ the Industrial Peace Act, which was the law tration Act by which the court is allowed to in operation before the passage of the Indus­ vary the rates of wages in certain tradeo or trial Arbitration Act. I remember when the callings in accordance with the prosperity of Induetrial Arbitration Act was introduced in those trades and callings. By the legislation 1916. At that time we had the Industrial recentlv enacted that principle has been Peace Act ir:o operation, and in discussing the taken away from the court, which must now new Act I am reported in " Hansard " of award a fixed basic rate whether the pros­ 1916-17 as saying- perity of the industry is below normal or not. The resolution passed at the Emu Park " In 1914 the number of strikes in New Co'1vention called upon the Government to South Wales was 255, affecting 750.000 restore the basic wage of £4 5s. per week workers, and losing £363,326 in wages; until Sllch time as the Industrial Arbitra­ whilst the corresponding figure for tion Act was amended. Is that Act going to Queensland was eighteen strikes, 37,000 be amende-d again? When that resolution employees, and £13,170 in wages." was considere-d it was never contemp]a ted that the Act should be amended, and it i& That was about a record for this State. That only the recent railway strike that is forcing was the position just about the time this the Government to amend the Act. I would Government first took office. There was more like +o know whether the Act is to be industrial peace under the Industrial Pea.ce amende-d in any other direction excepting Act than there has been ever since. by the appointment of laymen to the court. Look at the position in which we find our­ If the Government are going to have a court, selves to-day. It is common knowledge that thev must have a court which will command at the Labour Convention held at Emu Park the rccpect of both the employers and the sub.ic-d of the basic wage was discussed employees. The position to-day, unfortu­ and a resolution .agreed to. I quoted the nately, is that the court has been badlv resolution in a speech I made earlier in the dragged through the mud. Certain irre­ session, but I ju~t want to quote it again. sponsible indivi1nd then m, because at election time ,~·c 'have agita­ c!imh chwn ~ They are gradually getting tors tnnring the lenP"th and breadth of this into disgrace, and these outside iufluenees S'at8 giving- figurE's in r·egard to wealth pro­ tre doing the damage. It is a sorry position cluction, a.nd quoting what a small propor­ for the men who are supposed to control tion the "·orker gets as his share for produc­ !his State of Queensland. It is a s~d ,;tate ing it. They do not tell us that wealth pro- of affairs that they have not 'that high spirit Mr. Vowles.] 1110 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. which would induce them to stand up and court v-ery much? Every judge on that light those outside influences, even if they bench is endeavouring to do his best for the politically antagonise them. So long as we welfare of the people as a whole. They have that type of character 8xemvlified by ha.-c been appointed by the Government, a party holding office, so long as they are and it app-ears to me that, when we are prcpared ~o remain in office and act accord­ asked to vote a sum of money for thi, court, ing to the dictates of outsido authorities, we should ask ourselves what is going to be "here is the matter going to finish? We are the effect of the legislation which has been told the strike is not over yet, and that forecast to-night bv almost every member on further demat!ds will be brought forward the Goy-ernment side. If the judges of the when it suits the Strike Committee. We can Arbitration Court ctre to be wiped ol!t­ onlv assume they will put the screw on the apparcntly that is the decision of caucus Government on the eve of an election, and, behind closed doors-who are to he appointed knowing the Government to be tractable, to their positions' Are the appointments to knowing they will obey, there is no doubt be made by ballot from amongbt Govern­ they will achieve their end and gPt what Inc-nt 1ucn1bers? And are these men1bers to they ask for. bo elected hv a majority of one or two in their party ~nd then actually appointed by The firs·: point I stress!'d wa" whuiher this n minority of the Houso and supported by a Committee is justified, in view of the recent minority of the people outside? flouting of the Arbitration Court, in agree­ illg- to the expenditure of this sum of monE'y If it is of advantage to do away with for the upkeep of a court which, to all strikes. let us do the hest we can to minimisll iatents and purposes, will be futile in ~he s'rike". I believe the Arbitration Court futur;>. its main function having been taken judges have endeavoured to do that., and it away from it. i·· tho loose talk that has been going on, whic·h hus been condem!led bv the hon. mem­ :\Ir. FRY (l(w·ilpa): Every hon. member ber for Gregory, which has aimed a blow at of this Chamber must have been struck ith ' the foundation of tho Arbitration Court. r.hc moderate and sensible speech made· by lmn.,-ed its prestige, and tended to bring· !he hon. member for Gregory. The hon. abou1 a Ios· of e::mfidenco in tho court. The 1:1em bcr's condemnation of the loose talk actiYities of the court ar·e not going to b0 indulged in by certain of his colleagues both improYec1 ver~· much by sub·:tituting politi­ iu this Chamber and outside on the soap cians for the present. judges. \Vho is there hex is worthy of notice, as also >Yere his on the Government side to-day who is criticism of the basis upon which judgments temperamPntally or otherwise fit to occupy are arrived at by the Arbitration Court. a seat on the Arbitration Court bench' After listening to the speeches which have Le en made to-day, one cannot get u way from A GoYER::-i'3!EXT lYfEl\IBER: There is certainly t.he fact tha"> the Government are a medley no member on the Opposition side who is fit. so fa1· as arbitration is concerned. Let me contra•:t extracts from the speeches of other 1\Ir. FHY: It. all depends on the viewpoint. hon. members of the Government with that The " reds " on the Government side would ot the hen. member fo,: Gregory. The hon. consider the hon. member for Bowen most wember for Townsville said that oi:w judges suitable, while the " pinks " on the Govern­ should be removed every five or se\ en years, ment side would probably consider the becauee they get "blue-mouldy." Such a Attorney-General or the hon. member for reference is not likely to enhance the dignity Gregory suitable. That is what we are up of the court. I do not know exactlv what against. We have the "reds" and the the hon. member means by "blw.l-mouldy," " pinks " working as hard as they can to get but I can form my own opinion. If judges seats on the Arbitration Court bench, and a re not stable enough to last seven or eight the State is going to suffer. I have shown years without going "blue-mouldy," it is a from: their own statements just what is most unfortunate position. Yet that was the behind the speeches delivered in this Chnm­ opinion of the hon. member for 'l'ownsville bor by hon. members opposite on the question !a-night. of arbitration. The men who occupy that position must be free from any threats. Then we find the hon. member for Bowen insinuations, or inferences as to their integ­ s:tying that arbitration must be scrapped in rity. These men will occupy a position of fa Your of sotneth1ng 1nore sf;ientific becau::,c tru,t. and should be given the confidence the judge;;; are biased in favour of the w>2ll­ which they deserve. Do not allow these men t'l-c1o clanc''\. Is that going to encourage to bo criticised in this Chamber, because hon. confid. n.ce in the Arbitration Court" members are privileged to criticise. Then we find the hon. member for Fitzrov At 9.11 p.m., attacking the conrt a'Jd saying that lawyers The CHAillMAX resumed the chair. m list be rerdoved from the bench. \Yhat ·does tba t mean' The present occupants of the :\fr. FRY: Hon. members opposite talk Arbitration Court bench are lawyers, and about party discipline. Is there any party they must all go, according to the hon. mem­ discipline on the Government benchPs when ber for Fitzroy. The judges on the Arbitra­ hon. members opposite are criticising' the tion Court bench, according to the hon. mem­ Arbitration Court? There is none whatever. ber for Bowen, are partial to the well-to-do It showo a we-akness of leadership, and that pc, plc, and the hen. member for TownsYil!e hon. members opposite are deteriorating. refers to them as going "blue-mouldy," The Arl::itration Court must deal with factors insinua•ing that they are getting into a state outside woges and hours. It must deal with of sc·1ile doray or something of that sort. all the factors relating to industry. It must Are su· h stat-ements likelv to enhan~o the be given greater powers. As the hon. mem­ dignit:· or the prestige of the court? Are ber for South Brisbane said last week, and they likely to encourage a feeling of confi­ repeated to-day, the question of man-power, ·du!ce in the court? Is it not an aitack on \Yhether of brain or brawn, must be given its the court which must hurt the judges of the proper weight in industry. That might be [.Mr. Vowles. Supply. (7 OCTOBER.] Supply. llll termed capital-it is one form of capital. be their future battle-ground. It is to be Then there is the factor of machinery, which hoped for the benefit of this State and of represents another form of power or capital, the people who are largely interested in the and which must be given full weight and court that the court will be upheld and its reward in indmtry. Then another factor. dignity maintained. It hac long beon argued which is known as credit, must be given full in this community by men who clo not weight and consideration. ·when the court represent any Liberal or Nationalist school e-ndeavours to grapple with these difficulties, of thought, but who vote Labour to-day, let us help it ancl not hinder it. If we are that the wives of the workers should have gDing to get anywhere at all, it will only be ,-otes in determining by secret ballot by viewing the whole matter in its proper whether strikes shall or shall not take place. perspective ancl giving a just recognition to e>·ery factor in industry. Mr. LLEWELYN interjected. There has been tDo much loose talk on the Mr. FRY: The hon. member for Too· part of Government supporters. Anything is woomba and I were in Ipswich together. •.1id which tends to catch a few votes; any­ \Ye happened to be of the s.1me way of thing which is going to undermine the thinking then, but I became educated and nability of the State is given utterance to he has not reached that stage. (Laughter.) ln· hon. m em hers opposite. I make the state­ Th0 hon. member for Toowoomba knows n1cnt doliberately that is one of the weak­ that I always advocated that the wife was nesses of professional politicians-~ just as much concerned as the husband, and that she is not so easily led a•.tray. \Vhen The CHAIRMAN: Order ! a strike occurs the husband goes out and gets a feed somewhere, but mother has to i\Ir. FRY: The fact that they are pro­ stay at home. She has to face the man fessional politicians makes them ready to say who calls for the rent, and the man who nnvthing to keep their jobs. If we are going brings the grocer's bill, ancl at her side are to ~make a' success of the Arbitration Court, the children. She ought to have a vote, ···e must give it our confidence and support. but a vote is denied her. I say without fear \Ye must stand behind the Arbitration Court of contradiction that I have always advo· '" we stand behind the other courts. 'Vhat cated that principle, and I hope I always are our Supreme Court and our Arbitration shall, because anybody who has studied Court? They arc the embodiment of the these industrial problems very deeply must , rust which is reposed in our constitutional come to the conclusion that they clo not ' .'tem by Parliament-they are carrying out affect the man only. They affect his home th~ wishes of Parliament. If hon. members as well. They affect the community in its arc allowed to stand up here and make state­ entirety. If we cannot eliminate strikes, ments which are untrue about the court, what then for goodness' sake let us do all we can we expect from the people outside? If Lm to minimise them, and one of the ways Parliament wen' differently constituted­ by which we can minimise them is to accord unfortunately it cannot be altered now on to the Arbitration Court the respect it Lccotmt of party politiu-we might be able deserves. \Vhen hon. members stand up in to deal with these hon. members and send this Chamber and attack the court thev them back to their constituencies to have a should be dealt with most severely. - verdict passed upon their actions. 'We are on the brink of a crisis, and do not know what :Mr. EDWARDS (Nanan(Jo): The discus­ ,-.-ill eventuate. sion on this vote no doubt will be of great bc,nefit to hon. members and the public A GoVERNMENT ::\IE:liBER: A volcano. outside. We are discussing the most !Laughter.) important question affecting the life of our l\Ir. FRY: Hon. members opposite who State. You, Mr. Pollock, when speaking nrc so hilarious a bout the matter evidently made certain remarks regarding tho wealth rlo not think of what the result will be. of the State and. if I understo-od you aright, you stated that it was impossible to Th<'v overlook the effect of the white-ant­ obtain any definite information l'oga·rding ing of our arbitration svsren1, and so sur~ly the real wealth of different indnstries. I a' ni\:"ht follows daY. if they let the white admit that that is an important matter ants get into the foundation of the court. '' hich >hould be tackled when considering the whole structure will fall down and ;ho settlemen~ of industrial troubles 'I'he;·e crumble. and thev will be buried under its is ono thing we must agree o:a, and that i~. rnins. There is coming in this country as if we are to do away with arbitration, we in cvorv other countrv a crisis which must YJ"1ust have som0thing to talu~ its ·plaQe. lw fa~ed, and it can oiilc· be effectively faced The Arbitration Court judges carefully 1Jv tnnity in our legislative halls. I repeat weigh rhe evidence adduced by bo:h the that credit is due to the hon. member for unployc·;· and employee in industry. The (~regory for the sane and sensible speech 1•urpose of sifting that evi-denc) is to arrive he· made. to-night. at a fair living >Yage for the employee on The SECRlTARY F'JR PUBLIC WORKS : He the one he1nd, and or! the other hanu a wage i~ blushing. that will allow the industry to live. This ;,, where yDur argument, Nir. Polloek, fails An Ho:g wages by Act of P..trliarnent, wbich hon. members opposite are not game adually killed the spirit of arbitration. to do, because it is the votes of the "reds" '.. ou c«nnot have it both ways. If the "hich keep them in office. The "reds" and court is there for the purpose of sifting the "pinks" are at it as hard as they can c·ddonco and arriving at a fair wag-e for ~he go, and the Arbitration Court is going to employee .. nd one that industry can stand, lllr. Edn·arcls.] 1112 S«pply. [ASSEMBLY .] Supply.

then how can Parliament definitely lay down Various statements have been made in th;, \\ hat the wage shall be ? If we are to Chamber .to-day. The hon. member for trust the Arbitration Court we must trust Gr·e!;iory made a beautiful appeal for arbi­ it to decide this question. I take it that it tratwn. It was one of those appeals which is the function of the court to deal with this should appeal to the heart of the harde-t question, a:1d that is what the judges receive hearted man in the country. 'Ve are jmt L1e1r1 salanes for. They are there for the beginning to wonder whether the hon. mem· purpose of givin;>; a fair deal between the her is not to be a new Arbitration Court <"mployer and employee in industry. If we judge. fix the hours of work and the wa·.,.es ~o be prtid by Act of Parliament, then"'we shall [9.30 p.m.l upset the very spirit of arbitration. In a The CHAIRMAN: I can assure the hon. yuung State like Queensland where there member, on behalf of the hon. member for Dre huge possibilities an enormous amount Grcgory, th, developed without an enormous amount of when we practically know that a politician is. work being carried out has never given any going to he appointed we might be very gla.l thought to the question at all. if the position did go to the hon. member fc•r Gregory. The Government should have th<>ir We must. realist; that both our primary and thi1iking cap on and study arbitration in the .secondary mdustnes have to be built up, and light of the necessity of our industrv. 'We t~at the very life _of. the State depends upon are not a manufacturing people. 'Unfor­ tne. succe". of bmldmg up those industries. tunately it is a sorry spectacle for such a If m the mfancy of those industries we tie State as ours that we are not encouragina;. the_ har,tds of the court by enacting the wages secondary indnstrie,; and that we are not in wh!ch It ~hould fix, then we are going a long the running in that matter. How are we way to kill the~ in. their infancy. In view going to benefit our secondary indust.ries if of the recent leg1slatwn, how are those indus­ we cripple our primary industries. tries going to exist? It is clear that but for th!s leg·islation the judges could do the right VVith the hon. member for Gregory, I be· thmg towards those industries and fix wagcs lieve there are a lot of people who are m aceordanoe w!th . their prosperity. I say sincerely anxious to make this State better Without any h~sitatwn that, if any primary through arbitration. I say candidly before I or ~econdary Industry can be preserved in /ID a step further I do not believe that any­ 1ts mfancy by the fixation of wages at ls. or thing else than arbitration will save thee 2s. less than the basic rate it would not onlv <'ountry. \Ve have reached a critical stage he to the great advantage of that industry in the history of the human race, when the but of the employees also as aft.er the initial nld methods are absolutely hopeless and we difliculti~'. have been ov~rcome it might be might just as well throw them aside. We are m a pos1t10n to pay a great deal more than unable to get along with those methods. One the basic wage. hon. member oppo,ite said that, if somebody . The p1·inciple of arbitration is a most "ill show a better way, they are prepared to Important. one in thds. of the judges, and prevent ',' orld's market. for shipping has made FS them functw:Hng as 1 hey have done in the ('Ompetitors in the markets of the world? \Ye pnst, then \\-e. shall kill the very spirit of the could not compete with our wheat or with Act, and perhaps manv of the industries practic:tlly any other product with the excep· npon which the pro2pcritv of our State tic:n of Y.-ool. 'Ve can compare favourably, depends. ~ "·ith m.r wool, for a time anyhow. ,. Mr. w,.;RREN (Jiu~rumba}: I have I ask the Government, are we to bungle nstened With the keenest mterest to the van­ along and alter our arbitration laws in such ,_,us speakers who have preceded m·c I have a wa:v that they will make a capital bungle, r~_ot heard one argurr1ent as tD ho,v arbitra­ nr are we to build up along lines tT1at wili tiOn affects the very basic industries of the b~!WfLt the State of Queensland? It is all :'Hate. We are a primary-producing State. \'cry well for the hon. member for Gregon. l he whole of our \vealth lies in our primarv to talk about the Commonwealth. We should prodl!C s. \Yith the exception of two favoured pu1 C·ut o,,~n house in order before criticisin...;· prnrlucts-sugar, which is protected and rh., Commonwealth Government.. We know wool, whirh has a very high com~ercial tho C(JJnmonwealth ha.ve been vory remiss in Yalne-we arc very much below the other th~ matter of some awards. but we do admit State.' in primary production. \Ve are not that they have effected groat improvemente. abl.c to produce as economically as in the \YIH trer tho'o improvements are as great as ;>ther States. Many things that are produced they should be or the methods adopted what l!cre can be produced much cheaper in other they should be we cannot say. It cannot oe. parts of the world, yet we are dependent on '!0nied that we ourseh·es have to be verv the world's markets for the disposal of those c'"rcful and watch where we are going. If nroducts. In the face of this fact the we handle the matter in the future as the Govcrnme;>t have fixed an arbitrary basic Gt)\·ernment handled the recent railway strike \Yage for mdustry. I hke to see the worker and exhibit the ver,· sorry sptectacie of a. deYatecl to a high position, not only in regard \\oak-kneed ann we~k-backod people, we shall to th0 wag.es he rccei ves. but the conditions !!et l'owhere. The contempt heaped on th.e under which he should live. No one with Arbitration Court has been brought about an,v. sense desi~es to se.e anything but a very not hy the Arbitration Court itself, but by eflicwnt and hi13·hly-pa1-d worker. No person politicians taking a hand in the way they did. but a fool, w1sh~s to se.e .an under-paid It is no use talking about the employer worker. Tnat bemg so, 1t 1s our duty to having to be responsible for everything. I make a carefJ.ll study of the arbitration am a worker myself, and I have not the same systen1. sympathies with the employer that some [Jlr. Edu:ards. [7 OcTOBER.] Supply. 1113

people may have, but I do say that the The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: employing class needs encouragement in We know very well that the policy of the Queensland as much as any other class, not ::\fationalist party in the Federal Parliament for the sake of the individual or for capital, was practically to destroy arbitration. Hon. but for the progress of the State. We want members ha.ve made reference to the way in to g-et away from the stupid idea that, which the Arbitration Ceurt is alleged to because we stick up for progress we are stick­ have been interfered with in this State, but ing up for the bloated capitalist. I have never in the history of Queensland has a noticed hon. members on the other side are judicial body been treated by this Govern­ continually casting the insinuation across the ment in the contemptuous way that the Chamber that we stick up for the bloated Hughes Nationalist Government in the capitalist every time. I do not think there Feckral Parliament treated the Federal is a member on this side who would stand up Arbitration Court when the learned Judge for anything of the sort. Most members of Higgins was compelled to resign out of self­ Parliament in Australia are desirous of doing respect and in order to uphold the dignity their best to benefit the State in which they of his position. live, and the way to do it is not by making After listening to the discourse of the uncharitable attacks on one another. hon. member for Kurilpa it ought to be very easy to pick the winner of the Melbourne The ('!HAIRMAN : Order ! I do not think Cup-" vVindbag." (Government laughter.) that has anything to do with the Arbitration Court. The hon. member for Mirani, who spoke. in the early part of the evening, made the Mr. WARREN: I candidly admit, Mr. definite statement that the Sem-et~.ry for Pollock, that you have been kind enough to Agriculture and myself had addressed a allow me to .get a little wide of the mark. meeting in the Domain. I have not spoken 'l'he Arbitntion Court is probably not all in t11e Domain since '!;he conscription issue. that it might be, but.I want some indication ::Yfr. SwAYNE: It was in 1917; it was from hon. members who are going to do the rPported in the papers. botch-work as to whether they are going to do it properly. I was present at the Southern The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORkS: Queensland Ambulance contest yesterday, [ also want to take the opportunity of deny­ and I saw some wonderful botches there. ing another statement made by the gentle­ They had all sorts of splints and botches. man who is contesting the Herher.; elec­ and I think the Government of Queensland to-rate against Mr. Theodore. I understand are doing something that they did. That that the hon. member for Mirani is swing­ was only a show. There was not anything ing a towel in his corner, too-who allege"­ substantial in it. It was merely a demon­ that I addressed a meeting at tote Palms etration of what could be done, and I want to ::\1ill in :Mackay. I do not know where the say to hon. members that, if what they pro­ lllill is, and I never addressed a meeting pose doing with the Arbitration Court is not ~here. That is typical of hon. member> going to give a real tangible benefit to the opposite, who are bankrupt of ideas in worker, then it is not going to benefi~t regard to any policy they advocatG. Queensland. The hon. member for Enoggcra made the M1·. GLEDSON : We will put the splints on extraordinary statement that tho Bruce all right. Administration stood fot· arbitration. I have a recollection of a conference which was held Mr. WARREN: I quite understand that not long ago in the South, when my pre­ the hon. member will put the splints on. decessor, the present Secretary for Agricul­ The Government have made an absolute ture, was in charge of the Department of blunder in meddling with the Arbitration Public \Vorks. and he attended that con­ Court. I am quite certain that the actions ference with the then Premier, Mr. Thee­ of the Government during the railway strike dare, \Yhc:1 Mr. Bavin, who was Attorney­ were condemned by every right-thinking General in New South Wales, endeavoured nerson in the communitv, and I think there to bring about the passing of an Act which is hardly one worker, \vhether he be in the W'Ould have strangled arbitration in the· Raihva;: Department or anyv.rhere Plse. 'vho States. The fact that that Act was not did not condemn the Government for their brought into operation and the policy there­ action. If we are going- to allow strikes of under carried into effect was due to the this description, we might just as well scrap efforts of the representative of this Govern­ the ArbitrJt f0rr1' of contradiction that the was somewhat amusing to find such a large record of Queensland under the administra­ nv.mber of new-found champions of arbitra­ tion of this Government and the beneficial tion sitting on the Opposition benche'. work of the Industrial Arbitration Court i~ yfr. SrzER: \Ve have always been there. without parallel in the history of Queensland. A GOVERNMENT MEMBER: And always will Mr. SIZER: Hear, hear! We all agree be there. iLaughter.) with that. (Government laughter.) Hon. 111 . .T. Kirwan.] 1114 Supply. [ASSEMBLY .1 Supply.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: " The business of the whole of Aus­ Ouoting from the " Quarterly Summary of tralia had practically been taken out of Australian Statistics," I find the following the control of expert business men, and figures with regard to industrial disputes in the rule' and regulations of the judges the period 1922 to 1924 inclucive- of the Arbitration Courts controlled the salaries, 'vages, hours, and conditions of ~ew Sou~h Wales­ :No. of dispubcs 998 employment. The immediate result of No. of workers involved J hat was to increase the cost of produc­ directly ... 1,591,164 tion, and therefor·e the cost of living." Victoria- The Nationalist leader in Sol!th Australia. No. of disputes 88 ex-P·remier Barwell, as reported in the No of workers involved "Telegraph" of 2nd January, 1923, had directly 21,622 something intere,ting to say about the l2nNmsland- arbitration system- No. of disputes 88 " ARBITRATION COURTP·. No. of workers involved " SHOULD THEY BE ABOLISHED ? directly 8,224 "Si1· Henry Barwell's Opinion. ThcrD is a splendid record under the Fuller "Melbourne, 2nd January. Government in New South Wales! The amount of wages lost in New South \Vales "Sir Hcnrv Barwoll. Premier of South 'as £2,363,145, in Victoria £206,946, and in Australia, "~ho is visiting Melbourne, Qneonsland only £127,688. We find that in referred yesterday in an interview to his C•ueensland under the so-called awful Labour efforts to have the State Arbitration Go\·ernment, which hon. membe·rs opposite Court .abolished. His Bill, with that ure never tired of attacking and misrepre­ object in view, had been withdrawn FC'lting-, the number of disputes during that owing to the opposition which greeted i• ri1ne was C'ighty-eight, thf' nu1nbcr of workers in the South Australian Legislatin directly involved only 8,224, and the wages Assembly. lust only £127,688. Compare that with the "Sir Henry explained that the object record of the Fuller Government in New of the Bill was to abolish the State South \Vales during the same period. Arbitration Court and the wages boards, and to substitute concilliation boards on ::\Ir. SrzER: 'Which· State was it that had the lines of the Canadian system. The the railways tied up? abandonment of the Bill meant that The CHAIRMAN : Order ! things remained as they were, but it was The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: quite apparent that the Arbitration Couri This State had the railways tied up. Does must eventually go ...." the hon. member remember the 1917 railwav Now let me quote two delegates to the last strike in New South Wales and all its diffi­ Builders' Conference, as reported. in the culties? Does tho hon. m emher remember "'Melbourne Ag·e" of 24th November. the strike of the police force in Victoria a 1923- few years ago, when the whole of the under­ " :\Ir. J. M. Pringle and Mr. N. Phelps world took possv,;sion of Melbourne? Richards both read papers on industrial YJ:r. SIZER: That was not th£ railway strike arbitration. The latter declared that a \\'hen you were referred to as " an emanci­ hopeless tangle had been reached in the Pflted railway man." Commonwealth and State laws. from which there was no e'cape except by an TL0 CHAIRMAN : Order 1 I ask the hon. alteration of the Federal Constitution. member for Sandgate to be careful to obey mv call to order. It is not the first occasion "Mr. J. :Mcintyre (Kew South Wales) I · have ha·d occasion to warn the hon. reviewed the proposals of l'v1r. Bavin to member. have the Federal Constitution amended to allow of the Federal Court dealing The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: exclusiveh' "ith Federal industries. Ho I am not ashamed that I worked in the disagreed; and said the whole of thP Queensland railways, and I do not consider industriallegisbtion should be scrapp<:>d." it any disgrace to be charge·d with being an 2\ir. FRY: Any more newspaper cuttings" 'mancipated raih' ay man; and if I now hold the position of a r0sponsiblc Minister of the The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Cre' n. I think thut I can claim that I got Yes. I have quite a number. I make .a point the honour honestly and squarely and with­ of informing myself on any subject I am out r1oing anything· to sacrjfice n1y political dealing with. I am not going to deal with 11rin:( ip1cs. the bon. member as "an emancipated rat­ catcher," however. ::\ow Wf1 will take the opinion of some lc"ding Nationalists. The "Daily Mail," on Mr. FRY: We found you somewhere; I 27th April, 1923. printed this paragraph- will not tell the public where. " ARBITRATION. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: 'When I rise to address the Committee I am "DOUBTFUL BENEFIT. not like the hon. member, who talks drivel. " Costly ancl Irritating. "Adelaide. ThursdaY.-Spcaking at The CHAIRM_\N : Order ! t.l1E' half-yearly meeting of the Employers' The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Federation to-day, the president (Mr. E. The hon. member for Enoggera, when speak­ H. Bakewell) said that Arbitration Courts ing in this Chamber on 11th August, 1921. restricted and surrounded business men on a \Vant of confidence motion, said- with difficulties, by ord6ring the condi­ " Th£y (the Government) did not ha Ye tions of work. which were costly and the C01.lrage to wipe out the Arbitration irritating, and frequently of doubtful Court, as they say certain things must benefit to the men themselves. be done by the Arbitration Court." [Hon. 111. J. Kirwan. SurJ!y. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1115

The Lon. member for Oxlcy, on 18th August The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. of the sarnc year, sald- member must know that he is not in order ·' If there is one cans·e for the condi­ in stating that another hon. member has tion of affairs that we find in Queensland uttered an absolute falschoo.~. l-Ie must with­ to·day it lies in the Arbitration Court." draw the statement. "Opposition Members: Hear, hear!" =llr. FRY: I must abide by your ruling, ~1Ir. Polio: 1<, but it is not three minutes _\,;cl be hon. member for Fassifern, on 23rd ago-- _._-\.ugu,t, s~_id- The CHAIR:\IAN : Order! Does the hon. ,, The Arbitration Court has been a member intend to withdraw the Gtatoment '? gr·eat failure.'" Mr. FRY: I withdraw it. I ,.·ish to poi11t l\ow I shall take an extract indicating the out that tho policy of the Opposition is Yiews of the organised n1anufacturors vill1o arbitration. and the ~Iinicter knows it. l stand behind hon. members opposite. This rrm not going to allow any hon. member. ,i- the report- because he happens to bE a. Cabinet :Minis­ " :\1r. Grundy (Yic.) moved that in the ter, to take advantage of his position, and eYent of a strike officially proclaimed, throw accw,ations across this Chamber as or in the event of some members of a he lilu ". 'l'he statements of the ::Vlinister in union going on strike, even without replying to t.he criticism on this vote do official declaration, ' all the members of not t1 nhanr·e his dignity as a i\Iinistor. the bodies involYed be disfranchised.' Mr. COSTELLO : Thev do not know what ·' J. ::VIartyn (Yic.) endorsed the pro­ (1ig-nity is over there. ~ pm ai, and said, ' If unionists (not :VIr. BRUCE: The statem' nt enhance': his om]lloyers) decline to obey the laws of truthfu!Eess. the country they should not have a The' CHAIRMAN: Order ! Ouwr : hand in making thorn, ahd shoclld be di:3franchised.' )fr. FRY: I want it rlistinctL- understO<)d that hon. members on this · ide of the "Later on Mr. H. V. McKa.y, discuss­ Chamber stand for arbitration. '!'he Ministec iw~· the arbitration award for the cannot cL::rn- thnt fact. It is unworthv 1f timbo- industry, urged his fellow bosses any ::\finistcr of the Crown who hopes to "gain to refuse to obev the laws of the coun­ the respect of the community to make statF­ trv and ignore the decision of the r. 101Jt#'•.d1ich he must know are nDt correct. o"urts. The SECRETARY FOR Pum.rc WoRKS: Do not "J. :Y1artyn (Yic.) then moved that forgot ',\'hat you said about me in 1920. \Vhat the:,- ehould approach Mr. Hughes to : ou said then was a delil:>erate untruth. bring in legislation to override deci­ sions of the Arbitration Court if he :'vir FHY: Mr. Chairman, has the Ministo1· thought a decision unfair." not to withdraw that statement. or am I to be "The Pastoral Review," which I under­ the only one to withdraw? , 't .,ne! is be.bind the Country Progressive The CHAIRMAJ'\ : Order ! I ask the party-in i1 s issue of August, 1921, says- Secretary for Public \Vorks to w;ihdraw. " To institute a successful immigration The SECRETARY F'OR PUBLIC '\VORKS: I witl!­ policy we must first burn our Arbitra­ draw, Mr. Pollock. tion Act, abolish the basic wage and price fixing, and lessen the cost of pro­ The CHAIRMAN: I hope that the hon. duction.'' melllber for Kuri!pa does not suggest that tho Chair acts with anything but equity as That is what hon. members opposite stand be-t '"''en hall. members. 'for. Thev have sta.ted that the Government ha ye rrtt(mpted to interfere with the func­ Mr. FRY: Oh no, Mr. Pollock. (Laughter.) tion of the Arbitration Court, and I say I would not reflect on tho chair under any that is a deliberate untmth. circumstances, in view of the fact. (Hear .. Mr. YovvLES: Rymer said so. hear!) There was no justification for the hon. gentleman to make the references to The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: the Opposition that he drd. I do not care who says so, whether it be a There is no justification for the hon. mem­ """''ber of the Opposition or anybody else. ber making any suggestion to the effect that The ·tnt0,.cnt is an absolute falsehood. That the Opposition are opposed to arbitration, i-- plr:n Er:gli::-:h. Th~_~ Government have never .·. nd the hon. member's littleness in his approached tho court except in a way in slighting reference to myself must be looked "·hich e\-cry employer or employee is upon as an example of a big man becoming allowed under the Act to approach the court. The GoYernmcnt have stated their a little child. case to the judge or the Full Bench, and Item (Court of Industrial Arbitration\ ha.Ye left the matter to the court to decide. agreed to. ).ir. FEY (Kurilri): I cksire to refute the At 9.55 p.m., statement made by tho Secretary for Public The CHAIRMAK said: Under the pro­ \\-arks that hon. 1110mbus on this side are visions of Sessional Orders agreed to by the in hvom of the abolition of the Arbitra­ House on 29th July and 25th September, I ticn Court. HP stated that hon. members chall now leave the chair, report progress, ,,-ho expressed the view that the Government ,tnd ask leave to sit again. have interfered with the Arbitration Court were telling- an absolute falsehood, and I The House resumed. eoy in rc:ply to him that his statement is an The CHAIRMAN reported progress. absolute falsehood, and he know' it. The resumption of the Committee was made The CHAIRMAN : Order ! an Order of the Day for to-morrow. Mr. FRY: I am using his own words. Tho House adjourned at 10 p.rn. Mr. Fry.]