Vol. 719 Thursday No. 11 10 June 2010

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Questions Sudan: Human Rights Children: Criminal Responsibility Children: Vulnerable Children Afghanistan: Child Asylum Seekers City of Westminster Bill [HL] Canterbury City Council Bill Leeds City Council Bill Nottingham City Council Bill Reading Borough Council Bill Revival Motions Academies Bill [HL] Order of Consideration Motion Pensions: Automatic Enrolment Debate Zimbabwe Debate Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page

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© Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2010, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ 737 Sudan: Human Rights[10 JUNE 2010] Sudan: Human Rights 738

Nile and Unity provinces. It tells me that there is a House of Lords marked lack of international organisation presence on Thursday, 10 June 2010. the ground and a real danger that there will be conflict arising from boundary demarcation disputes since the 11 am CPA is mapping the area from the air without discussing with local communities their views on the border. Will Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Newcastle. the Minister look into this? To what extent is he happy with the lack of engagement by the international The Lord Bishop of Gloucester took the oath. community in the process leading up to the referendum?

Sudan: Human Rights Lord Howell of Guildford: The noble Lord makes a Question very good point, which I will certainly feed into our thinking. As to international involvement in helping 11.07 am with the process leading up to the referendum and Asked By Lord Chidgey thereafter in managing its results, much more clearly is needed. We are doing our bit. We are increasing our To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their staff in Juba, for instance. Our eye is very much on the response to reports of human rights abuses by state ball about this, but we want others to work as well. We organisations in the run-up to the recent elections want to encourage UNMIS to get more involved and in Sudan. we have several other proposals for increasing our input. No one should for a moment assume that there The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth will not be a very difficult situation, whichever way the Office (Lord Howell of Guildford): My Lords, the referendum goes. Of course, there are wide forecasts United Kingdom is deeply concerned about human that it will go in favour of some kind of autonomy. rights abuses committed in the run-up to and during the elections in Sudan. This period saw reports of violations of political rights and freedoms, including Lord Avebury: My Lords, first, regarding UNMIS, harassment, intimidation, arbitrary arrest, detention does the Minister think that additional troops will be and alleged torture. There have been worrying signs of necessary to safeguard the referendum process, bearing a further crackdown by the authorities since the elections, in mind the violence that occurred in the recent elections? including the recent arrest of an opposition politician. Secondly, does he think that satisfactory voting We continue to urge the Government of Sudan to arrangements were in place for the disputed border address these concerns. areas in the recent elections? If not, what additional measures would he recommend should be taken before Lord Chidgey: I am very grateful to the noble Lord the referendum? for that reply. Perhaps I may add to his comments the fact that recent laws passed in Sudan allow Sudanese Lord Howell of Guildford: On the noble Lord’s security forces to arrest people and hold them for second question, I am afraid that there do appear to 45 days without review and with immunity from any have been abuses in those and many other areas, and charge for abuses which might take place during that these matters will need to be monitored and safeguarded time. As he mentioned, there has been the arrest of a very carefully—more so than in the past. On the senior opposition leader, Hassan al-Turabi, on rather question of additional troops, by which I assume he spurious charges, together with the arrest of a leading means reinforcements for UNMIS, that is a difficult editor from the Rai al-Shaab newspaper, Mr Abuzerr matter at the moment. We want some means by which Ali al-Amin. Will he assure the House that the the weak Government of Southern Sudan can somehow Government will take every measure that they can in be strengthened in order to prepare for the enormous the international call for the reform of these repressive strains that lie ahead either way, whether the referendum laws in Sudan and for holding to account those responsible goes for separation or not. Either way seems to point for the charges of torture? to more violence, danger and abuses. Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, I can only endorse the grim catalogue that my noble friend outlines. The Lord Bishop of Gloucester: My Lords, given It is absolutely so. We will continue to use all pressures that the Governments of both north and south Sudan we can and to urge the Government of the Sudan back have little control of the country outside the few to a better path in their human rights performance. conurbations, and that the only organisations with an The outlook is not good and there are obviously many effective network across the whole of Sudan are the major concerns ahead in dealing not only—as we all Roman Catholic and Episcopal churches, what plans know—with the continuing horrors of Darfur, but might Her Majesty’s Government have to encourage with the potential instabilities arising from the forthcoming both Sudanese Governments to link with the churches referendum in the south. We continue to want the in order to build stability and peace prior to the comprehensive peace agreement to work; that must be referendum? our main focus. Lord Howell of Guildford: I am grateful to the right Lord Anderson of Swansea: My Lords, Concordis, reverend Prelate. In all our urgings and advice, we take the Christian reconciliation organisation of which I account of those important factors and will continue am a patron, has just run two workshops in Upper to do so. 739 Sudan: Human Rights[LORDS] Children: Criminal Responsibility 740

Lord Lawson of Blaby: My Lords, may I recommend responsibility than we do and the United Nations is to my noble friend, who I am delighted to see has calling for it to be raised. Will the Minister kindly taken this very important post in the Government—it consider a package of measures: raising the age to 14; is well deserved—a recently published book called not holding trials of children in open adult courts; not War Games by a distinguished Dutch woman journalist questioning child witnesses in court; not using custodial who is extremely experienced in this area? She sentences; and, of course, in this age of cuts, concentrating demonstrates how many if not most humanitarian on preventing children getting into the criminal system NGOs operating in this area are actually assisting in in the first place? the repression and the inhuman activities that are taking place, without intending to. He may like to read Lord McNally: My Lords, having had less than a it if he has time. month’s experience, I pay due deference to the experience of the noble Baroness. Whatever age group we pick Lord Howell of Guildford: I thank my noble friend will be arbitrary. I have looked at the international for his kind remarks and for his advice on my reading comparisons, which range from six to 17. I will obviously list. I will do my best. A number of insightful and take back to the department the recommendations she valuable studies have been made into the effects—some makes for due consideration. However, I was very good and some bad—of the various activities and impressed by the mixture of processes introduced by intentions both of the non-governmental organisations, the previous Administration which makes it a rare which are full of dedicated people, and indeed even of occurrence for very young children to be before a Governments, who sometimes, in thinking that their court. There is a mixture of reactions to their offending efforts will help, encounter all sorts of side-effects and which seeks to achieve early intervention and progress consequences which had not been reckoned with. for the children concerned. The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, given the involvement Lord Borrie: My Lords, does the Minister agree of the Chinese Government in Sudan—particularly in that, while there may not be one perfect answer for all the oil industry—and remembering what was said in cases—the differences across the jurisdictions demonstrate the debate yesterday, what early contact is the Foreign that—it might be an idea if a judge had an element of Office going to make with the Chinese, and will they discretion in the case before him not to allow what be asked to co-operate in the preparations for the happened in the recent case to which the noble Baroness, referendum? Lady Deech, referred? Lord Howell of Guildford: We have contact with the Lord McNally: The case that has been referred to is Chinese about this and the more general question of still under the jurisdiction of the judge concerned. the degree to which they should carry responsibility However, it is interesting that he is going to give his for matters like human rights in difficult areas where opinions of the process to the Lord Chief Justice, they are very active in investment terms. There is no who, in turn, will give his to the Lord Chancellor. I doubt that Chinese oil interests and the money associated emphasise again, coming to this very green and very with them in Sudan are a factor. We have talked to new, I was extremely impressed by the wide variety of them. Our Chinese colleagues are reluctant to take a responses. The idea that children aged 10 to 12 are forward position and their doctrine is non-interference automatically put into the court system is false. The in local affairs, but actually they do face some number of responses that have been developed over responsibilities and, as we point out to them, will have the past few years are very impressive and much to the to adjust to them in due course. credit of the previous Administration. Children: Criminal Responsibility The Earl of Listowel: Under their duty to consult Question children under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, will the Minister and his colleagues consider 11.15 am speaking to 10, 11 and 12 year-olds in custody, particularly about their family experience? Will they further consider Asked By Baroness Deech speaking to the teachers, social workers and psychiatrists To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they who work with them on this matter? plan to raise the age of criminal responsibility. Lord McNally: I certainly agree to that. I also take The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord the noble Earl’s point about the family. One has only McNally): My Lords, the Government have no plans to look at a very few cases to find that these children to raise the age of criminal responsibility. They believe come from extremely damaged backgrounds. We shall that setting the age of criminal responsibility at 10 allows look at making sure that their parents take responsibility front-line services to intervene early and robustly. This for their actions. There is a very clear relationship helps to prevent further offending, and it helps young between damaged children committing crimes and an people to develop a sense of personal responsibility appalling family background. for their behaviour. Lord Elton: My Lords, does the Minister agree that Baroness Deech: I am grateful to the Minister for the last of the lengthy catalogue of recommendations that Answer. Would he acknowledge that it is widely from the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, to reinforce the regarded as inappropriate to see 10 year-olds in court previous Administration’s legacy towards the early and very small children being examined as witnesses? intervention to which he referred, was the least Most of the rest of Europe has a much higher age of controversial, the most attractive and likely to be the 741 Children: Criminal Responsibility[10 JUNE 2010] Children: Vulnerable Children 742 most effective and least expensive? Will he add to that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for a dimension of support for the voluntary agencies, Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): My Lords, among which are by far the most effective deliverers of these other measures, we are committed to the goal of services? ending child poverty by 2020, to carrying out a wide- ranging review of child protection by Professor Eileen Lord McNally: My Lords, the simple answer is yes. Munro, announced today, to publishing serious case Whether the strategy of the previous Administration reviews, to giving parents of children with special was working may be answered by figures released this educational needs more say over their children’s education morning that show a decrease of 20.7 per cent in the and providing 4,200 extra Sure Start health visitors. number of young first offenders. That has been achieved by avoiding knee-jerk reaction, using the voluntary Baroness Massey of Darwen: I thank the Minister sector and giving wide discretion. The direction of for that response. Does he agree that vulnerability in travel which we inherited is one which we intend to children may arise from such things as abuse, disability, follow. poor health, truancy and so on? Can he comment in more detail on one of those areas and say what the Lord Clinton-Davis: My Lords— Government plan to do? Lord Richard: Will the Minister assure us that the Lord Hill of Oareford: I am grateful to the noble report by the learned judge to which he referred earlier Baroness for the question and pay tribute to the work will be made public? that she does in this area, and has done for a very long time. On protecting children at greatest risk from Lord McNally: It is above my pay grade. It is no use abuse, I hope that the independent review announced the noble Lord saying, “Oh, come on”; he knows darn by my department today, to be led by Professor Eileen well that I cannot make that kind of commitment. Munro, whom many noble Lords and noble Baronesses However, I am sure that the Lord Chancellor will note will know well from their work, will help us to put such a recommendation from such a learned QC. better systems in place. Most importantly, I was told Baroness Buscombe: In developing his thinking, will this morning that apparently social workers spend up the Minister look at the tremendous amount of work to 80 per cent of their time in front of a computer done by the Conservative Party in opposition in 2001-02, screen rather than working with the children, as they when we looked in great detail at how we prevent would like to be doing. If we can reduce some of those young people getting on to the conveyor belt to crime? burdens and support social workers to do the job they I think that that would help him. Will the Minister want to do—and we all want them to do—we will be agreetodothat? making some progress. Lord McNally: One of advantages of the coalition Baroness Howarth of Breckland: My Lords, does is that I am now able to look at the wide body of the Minister agree that this Question is related to the research that comes from all the parties. I do not think previous Question that we discussed, about children that it is a party political issue; nor is there a simple, who have come before the criminal courts? Is it not the ideological solution. However, as a complete newcomer case that there has been an unprecedented increase in to this issue, I think that some solutions have been the number of children coming before the family court found. As I have said previously, we fully intend to in relation to both private and public legislation? follow the direction of travel of the previous However, while local authorities are working on Administration, while of course taking into account safeguarding in that statutory area, they are certainly the experience of our sister coalition party as well. not working in prevention. As the noble Lord, Lord McNally, pointed out, unless we work in the area of Lord Bach: I thank the Minister for his generous prevention, more children will become before both comments; the comments that we received from around sets of courts. What will the Government do to ensure the House when we were in government were not that social workers in local authorities have the time to always quite so generous. Will he ensure that, when the do both their statutory work and to work with vulnerable cuts come, the important work being done in this field families in their own homes? which he has been generous about is not cut? It is Lord Hill of Oareford: To pick up on the first point, crucial that it remains, whether voluntary or statutory. I echo what my noble friend Lord McNally said about Lord McNally: We shall certainly do our best, the work particularly of the family intervention projects, because the figures also show that making short-term which the previous Government introduced. Some of cuts often leads to government expenditure such that the early results from that were extremely encouraging it would be cheaper to send young people to Eaton in helping the most disadvantaged families and children than to keep them in custody. early on. There were some very big reductions in problem behaviour. On the broader point about what we can do to help social workers have more time to do Children: Vulnerable Children their job, that comes back to my earlier remarks. One Question benefit that we hope will come from the Munro review 11.24 am is that we will free social workers from what we might call the more pointless box-ticking activity to have Asked By Baroness Massey of Darwen more time to do the job that they want to do, which To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they will would encompass the kind of concern that the noble support vulnerable children. Baroness has. 743 Children: Vulnerable Children[LORDS] Afghanistan: Child Asylum Seekers 744

Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, I have two announced that there will be a £23 million local questions for the Minister. First, this House worked social work improvement fund available to local very hard on the Children and YoungPersons Act 2008. authorities to help support children’s services in 2010-11. Will the Minister commit to implement that Act in We will provide funding for the successful programme full? It is about promoting stability for some of our to support recruitment and retention of social workers, most vulnerable children. Secondly, will the Minister and we will make funding available for establishing an honour the previous Government’s commitment, to independent college of social work. I hope that all which he has just referred, to roll out family intervention these measures will provide some reassurance to the projects? We know that by investing in family intervention noble Baroness. projects we project vulnerable children, and the results are tremendous. Afghanistan: Child Asylum Seekers Lord Hill of Oareford: In terms of the commitments Question that I can give, I have to make the broad point to which my noble friend Lord McNally alluded that 11.32 am unfortunately we inherit a financial situation in which, as the former Chief Secretary, Mr Liam Byrne, pointed Asked By Lord Roberts of Llandudno out that there is “no money left”. So it is simply not To ask Her Majesty’s Government what proposals possible for me to give any undertaking at all about they have for the return of unaccompanied child commitments going forward on funding. However, I asylum seekers to Afghanistan. can certainly say that in looking at issues of public expenditure, clearly the priority that the Government The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Neville- will bring to bear is to protect wherever possible the Jones): My Lords, the House may be aware of press most vulnerable in society. The decisions that we have reports that have appeared on this issue in the past already started to take with regard to Sure Start and week, which may have misled. I assure the House the funding to protect it are proof of that point. We straightaway that only unaccompanied children for shall continue to do that, but it is simply not possible whom satisfactory care and integration assistance can to give firm financial undertakings for the future. This be provided will be returned. What is being proposed Government are confronted with the same situation is part of that assistance. The UK is tendering for with which a Labour Government would have been integration services for all forced-returned Afghans—that confronted, if they had got in: there is no money left, is, not just children. If that tender process identifies we have spent it all, and we will have to make cuts to suitable provision for some Afghans in the 16 to 17 age sort out the deficit. bracket, then indeed it might be possible to return them. Children under that age will not be returned, Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, is the Minister but even in that age group that will depend on individual aware that figures placed in the House of Commons cases and the assistance that can be provided. We Library show that the use of restraint on young offenders doubt that there will be big numbers. in secure training camps has risen, despite the previous Government having given an assurance and a pledge Lord Roberts of Llandudno: I thank the Minister for that they would reduce its use? That was recommended that reply. I know that when we entered this coalition by the independent review on the use of restraint, Government we thought that one of the great pledges published in December 2008. Does he agree that the was to stop the detention of children for immigration use of restraint on children as young as 12 in such purposes and I hope that that will be implemented. institutions should be kept to an absolute minimum? However, this seems a backward step. Is the Minister Do the Government have any plans to introduce other convinced that we are keeping to the letter of the methods of handling these difficult and very damaged United Nations Convention on the Rights of the children? Child, which says that every child—everyone of 18 and under—should be cared for in a very special way? This Lord Hill of Oareford: I have not seen the research seems to be treating the most vulnerable children that the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, refers to. I would among us in a very harsh way. be happy if she could spare the time to discuss that with her, along with the broader issues that she has raised. Baroness Neville-Jones: My Lords, there is no question of detention, which does not arise in these cases. As to Baroness Garden of Frognal: My Lords, in these whether we are conforming to the provisions of the times of economic hardship, more children are likely Convention on the Rights of the Child, I suggest that to be at risk through poverty. What assurances can the it is precisely in order to make assistance available to Minister give that there are sufficient trained and young people that we are instituting these arrangements experienced child protection officers, and what measures and the tender is going out. This is not about buildings; are being taken to recruit good people into that important it is about provision for reintegration into society and service? for other ways of helping these young people to find their parents and to get back to a normal life. Lord Hill of Oareford: I agree with the point that in times of economic hardship and difficulty it is important Lord Martin of Springburn: My Lords, may I ask that we are able to support the most vulnerable. As for assurances that any child asylum seeker, while he part of the announcements today about the Munro or she is in this country, has proper legal representation review, which may help the noble Baroness, we have and proper access to our social work care departments? 745 Afghanistan: Child Asylum Seekers[10 JUNE 2010] Reading Borough Council Bill 746

Baroness Neville-Jones: My Lords, when they are in position of Refugee Action is that, provided that the this country, these children are in the care of local conditions are right, which is the proviso that we are authorities, which is an extremely costly process for us. trying to meet, it does not have any principled objection The sort of concerns that the noble Lord has are to the return of children of this age in the circumstances indeed being catered for. that are being provided. As for other interested parties, of course I am happy to meet Refugee Action and I The Lord Bishop of Newcastle: Does the Minister intend to make that part of my duties. really believe that the deportation of unaccompanied child asylum seekers to Afghanistan is in each child’s City of Westminster Bill [HL] best interests? If she does, perhaps she could tell us why. Canterbury City Council Bill Baroness Neville-Jones: My Lords, I am sure that the House entirely agrees that this is a very difficult issue. We are in an age of migration, but we have to Leeds City Council Bill consider the alternatives. Unless this country is prepared to take every single individual who arrives on our shores as a result of having been trafficked through Nottingham City Council Bill the system and to keep them indefinitely—in the end as our citizens—we have to find a humane way of Reading Borough Council Bill returning people. These provisions are designed precisely to provide that degree of humanity and assistance to Revival Motions the young people who arrive here. 11.37 am Lord Dubs: My Lords, how will the Government Moved By The Chairman of Committees monitor the safety and well-being of those children who are returned to Afghanistan? Also, will the That this House resolves that the promoters of Government give an assurance that this is not a precedent the City of Westminster Bill [HL] which was originally for returning children to other countries as well? introduced in this House in session 2008–09 on 22 January 2009 should have leave to proceed with Baroness Neville-Jones: My Lords, part of the service the bill in the current session in accordance with the of providing assistance for reintegration will be to find provisions of Private Business Standing Order 150B these children’s families if they have not found them (Revival of bills). and to attempt to get them a job and an education. That this House resolves that the promoters of Actually, these young people are being helped to be the Canterbury City Council Bill which was originally put in a position that they might not have been in introduced in the House of Commons in session when they left their country. I do not think that we are 2007–08 on 22 January 2008 should have leave to doing them a disservice. On the question of wider proceed with the bill in the current session in accordance immigration and deportation arrangements, that will with the provisions of Private Business Standing obviously depend on the circumstances of each country, Order 150B (Revival of bills). as the noble Lord knows. That this House resolves that the promoters of the Leeds City Council Bill which was originally Lord Avebury: My Lords, will my noble friend introduced in the House of Commons in session the Minister invite the organisations that have 2007–08 on 22 January 2008 should have leave to expressed concern about whether these arrangements proceed with the bill in the current session in accordance are in the best interests of the child, including the with the provisions of Private Business Standing UNHCR, Refugee and Migrant Justice, the Refugee Order 150B (Revival of bills). Council and the Children’s Society, to a meeting so that she can explain the provisions and reassure them? That this House resolves that the promoters of Secondly, given that Sweden, Denmark and the the Nottingham City Council Bill which was originally Netherlands are all planning to return children to introduced in the House of Commons in session Afghanistan, while Norway is building a hostel similar 2007–08 on 22 January 2008 should have leave to to the one that we propose, would not pan-European proceed with the bill in the current session in accordance arrangements for the reception of these children in with the provisions of Private Business Standing Afghanistan be better than every state making its own Order 150B (Revival of bills). arrangements? That this House resolves that the promoters of the Reading Borough Council Bill which was originally Baroness Neville-Jones: My Lords, we have a introduced in the House of Commons in session memorandum of understanding with the Afghan 2007–08 on 22 January 2008 should have leave to Government about the return of such individuals, to proceed with the bill in the current session in accordance which the UNHCR is party. We work with all the with the provisions of Private Business Standing parties to ensure that the terms that I am trying to set Order 150B (Revival of bills). out are observed. The noble Lord referred to other interested organisations. My understanding of the Motions agreed. 747 Academies Bill [HL][LORDS] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 748

Academies Bill [HL] I never tire of making the point that, as a country, we underestimate the impact that demographic trends Order of Consideration Motion will have on all of our policy areas. I attended an interesting PPI AGM yesterday where the point was 11.38 am made that the best projections we are all working on Moved By Lord Hill of Oareford are estimates. If they are wrong by even 1 per cent in That it be an instruction to the Committee of the an upwards direction, there are some serious consequences. Whole House to which the Academies Bill [HL] has The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, chaired the been committed that they consider the bill in the event, which was an interesting demonstration of how following order: some of these estimates can be wrong. There have been underestimates in the past, and we must make Clauses 1 to 9, Schedule 1, Clause 10, Schedule 2, proper provision for long-term saving for some of our Clauses 11 to 16. citizens, who are just ignorant—in the best sense—of Motion agreed. how long they will have to make provision for when it comes to their retirement: some 20 or 30 years. It is perhaps not surprising that some do not think about Pensions: Automatic Enrolment that because they are working out how to budget through the next week, never mind the next 20 or Debate 30 years. There is a need to understand the context, and to 11.38 am re-establish the consensus across the party divide if we Moved By Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope can. Pension provision is a long-term problem. Of To call attention to Her Majesty’s Government’s course, there might be tactical differences and different plans to introduce automatic enrolment in workplace approaches in dealing with the next Comprehensive pensions; and to move for Papers. Spending Review provisions. However, we must not lose sight of the fact that pension provision is a long-term Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope: My Lords, it is a strategy. We must get it right for the long term. pleasure to open this short debate. If I may, I would The National Employment Savings Trust is an like to preface the debate by welcoming the Minister important element in all of this. I support workplace to his new and interesting position. He still has that pensions. I was first introduced to the idea by a man sunny disposition and smile on his face. I hope that it called James Purnell, of whom noble Lords may have is there until 2015. With a bit of luck, I will try to help heard since he served on the Select Committee that I him to get there. We will do the best we can. had the privilege to chair in a previous incarnation. I have never had the opportunity to thank the noble Auto-enrolment is a key new factor in being able to Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, for the professional encourage people to save properly. and collegiate way in which he, as a Minister, allowed The Government are new. We have had a period of me and other Opposition spokesmen to share some of purdah when everything has been in stasis and no one the Government’s thinking. I appreciated that support, has been able to take things forward. The mid-2012 and look forward to listening with great interest to introduction date is fast approaching. Some clarification what he has to say in future; that is really a way of of the Government’s position on the review and its softening him up, because the full-frontal attack will terms of reference would be useful. The scope and come any moment now. membership would obviously be part of that. How It is hard to cover this territory in 15 minutes, but long is it going to take? When will we get access to its the debate’s purpose is to allow the incoming Government conclusions? Are we right to assume that it will include to report progress on automatic enrolment and personal the delivery contract, which is quite controversial? By accounts. We should take time at this stage to reflect that I mean the contract with TATA to provide the on some of the continuing concerns identified by the default NEST pensions provision. We have already industry, because they are real. Some understanding spent some £60 million on loans for the personal of the timetable, and the planned next steps, would be administration—that is, on PADA, which preceded extremely helpful. Noble Lords will know that the new NEST. Is there any further information about how NEST—the National Employment Savings Trust—is that looks and what the Government propose to do vested with its powers on 5 July, which is not a long about it? We would also like to hear from the Government time coming. It is an important reform and an important about the annual management charges for personal body. There is a lot of money at stake. The success of accounts. All of that is simply to clarify the situation, this policy programme is fundamental to the future so that the industry, which is interested in engaging provision of workplace pensions in this country. with this as positively as it can, can respond as positively The context is well known and understood across as it is able. the whole House. Not only is the United Kingdom There are other, perhaps less obvious, questions seriously personally indebted at the level of about the review. There is a business department review households—we have had some interesting discussions of red tape, which will look at whether and how about that in the debate on the Loyal Address—but, employers can certify existing schemes to qualify under looking forward to pension provision in the longer the new provisions. There is a huge amount of red tape term, it has undersaved as a nation. We obviously face there. We know about this because we spent a long the financial constraints of which everyone is aware. time discussing it in the course of the primary legislation. That will become clearer later in the year. Will that be a factor? Is the review taking into account 749 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[10 JUNE 2010] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 750 the business department’s interest in this important However, I am sure that colleagues will be concerned area of policy? It would be helpful to know that. Is it that 21 per cent of employers are considering levelling likely to be directly affected by expenditure cuts? We down. Fifthly, I was interested to note that the survey all expect the Comprehensive Spending Review in stated that, October to be quite difficult to handle. Will those CSR “matched contributions is the single biggest issue that would announcements indirectly or directly affect the proposals encourage employees to raise their contributions followed by for personal accounts and auto-enrolment? better awareness of what they may receive in retirement”. In the longer term, although still important, is there I hope that the Government will study that survey any fresh thinking about how the auto-enrolment carefully as it raises concerns that we all share. personal accounts will impact on and fit with means- I believe that two or three points need to be added testing policy? This is a debate that I know the noble to that list. Size of business is an issue. There is Lord, Lord Freud, is actively and rightly engaged in. clear evidence in AXA’s survey that smaller He is trying to get some of these incentives changed companies will struggle to deal with all this to a far and made more positive. It is difficult to see how you greater extent than some bigger businesses. We need to can be confident about deploying the NEST and personal consider that further. If we are not careful, low-income accounts policy without being careful about how it fits workplace savers, particularly early joiners who are with means-testing in the longer term. close to retiring age when they join, may get no benefit The problems with this debate are very interesting. whatever from this system. That also needs to be I recently had the pleasure of sponsoring a lunch here, looked at. Going forward over the next three years, where the pensions company AXA brought forward opting out will be even more important for reasons its research entitled Public Policy Research Report: which we all understand; that is, household domestic Workplace Pensions. The results of this survey are very budgets will be under even more pressure. People will important. AXA carried out an equivalent piece of think of this measure as a wage cut if its positive work in 2006, at the same time as the White Paper was aspects are not explained to them to enable it to be published. It found some interesting concerns that taken forward. needed to be addressed. Three years on, in December What can we do to help? What should we be looking 2009, AXA repeated the research, covering a group of to do? I look forward to hearing about the review. I 300 employers of different sizes and scale and more understand that that discussion may be premature in than 1,000 employees, just to test what they knew and that the Government have been in office for only thought about these policy proposals. The conclusion, 20 minutes, as it were, and reviews are reviews. I think, is that support for this policy is waning. That Noble Lords: Too long! is the worrying thing and it is my conclusion from reading this research. Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope: I hear cries of “Too Mr Steve Folkard, who is head of pensions and long” from a sedentary position. We have been in savings policy, reports in his foreword to the research office longer than 20 minutes, but these are early days. that he expected support to grow between 2006 and However, I hope that the Minister and the department 2009, but writes: will understand that we need to take account of the “However, in the three years that have passed the findings do urgency of this matter. The Government should restate not make for the most comfortable reading for policy makers”. their position as energetically and urgently as they Looking at the detail, I agree with that statement. can. They must demonstrate enthusiasm and demonstrate Mr Folkard concludes his foreword by saying: that they are up for this fight as it will be a struggle to “NEST is designed for the low to average wage earners and its win hearts and minds to make this policy successful. It success will be judged not just by the extent to which the number is clear to me that we need to provide more flexibility of people saving for retirement increases but whether the aggregate for employers, and soon. We need to be able to access amount saved by the population increases too”. better information systems that explain the long-term I agree with that. benefits of this policy for employees and employers. We need to be able to do that in pretty short order if The survey has five bullet point findings which are this policy is to succeed. worth rehearsing. First, it states: In the longer term we need to look at the promise of “Support among employers for the introduction of NEST has an evaluation when the “steady state” is reached in dropped to 26%”. 2016. It is a shame that this has slipped back. I That is a fall of 26 points over the three-year period, understand the reasons why the previous Administration which is of serious concern. Secondly, it states: slipped back the timescale slightly. I supported that as “There has been a 7 point fall in companies being able to the original timescale presented many challenges. However, ‘absorb the costs and comply’”. we will now not have a fully functioning 8 per cent Thirdly, it states: annual saving amount until 2016. That is a long time “19% of employers say they will reduce employee numbers as coming and people will suffer from being undersaved a result”— between now and then as a result. We also need new of this policy’s introduction. That is “up 3 points”, impact assessments of the cost provisions that which is bad news. Fourthly, there is a piece of good accompanied the draft regulations. I do not think that news. The survey states: the earlier cost assumptions were sufficiently realistic. There should be better information. The department “21% of employers would level down to 3% per cent”— should have done more work since the previous there is a problem with levelling down—which is, assumptions were published. It would give the industry “5 points lower than in 2006”. confidence if the department undertook to set up a 751 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[LORDS] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 752

[LORD KIRKWOOD OF KIRKHOPE] Commons—miraculously empty, much to the working group with it and other interested parties in disadvantage of our debates. order to engage with the deployment and implementation I admit that when I got into office, Parliament had of this policy. That is important. to deal with the Fowler plan on personal pensions and This is a very important piece of legislation that we the end of discrimination against early leavers. Then must get right. There is a case in the even longer term we had the plans of Peter Lilley in the Conservative for the Government to think about creating an Government, while under the party opposite the ideas independent body to formulate strategy for long-term of Frank Field were considered—briefly. His ideas savings. It should be broadly drawn, because it is were so unthinkable that he was immediately sacked. important to try to develop and enforce a consensus in Later, when plans were subcontracted to the noble this important policy area. It is too important to get Lord, Lord Turner, we made more substantial progress. wrong. I hope that today’s debate will help to shed In the past 40 years, we had the basic pension which some light on the Government’s thinking. That was was earnings-related; then it was price-indexed; now it the purpose of tabling the Motion in the first place. I will be earnings-related again. Also, there has been look forward to contributions from colleagues and one variation after another of the state second pension. others. I beg to move. We have had SERPS; we have had modified SERPS; we have had son of SERPS; and now we have an ailing 11.54 am cousin of SERPS called S2P. At the same time, we Lord Fowler: My Lords, I congratulate my noble have seen the decline, and almost fall, of final salary friend on his speech. We have spent most of our time occupational pension schemes in this country, for in the other place and here debating against each which, frankly, the party opposite must bear some other, but it is extremely good that on this, and I responsibility. I am trying to put that in the most suspect many other issues, we are very much on the moderate way by saying “some responsibility”. The same side. He made an excellent speech. I also congratulate noble Lord on the Front Bench shakes his head but I the Minister on his appointment. He comes with a think that the party opposite must bear some responsibility wealth of knowledge and we wish him the very best of for it, although I certainly accept that it does not have fortune in his new post. total responsibility. However, we should now be trying I start in a way which may seem a little away from to get as much agreement between the parties as we the detail of automatic enrolment, but I hope that the possibly can on the way forward. House will soon see the relevance. Next week is the Pensions are a long-term investment and require 40th anniversary of my coming to Westminster in long-term policy-making. In the current economic June 1970. I spent 31 years in the House of Commons circumstances, it may not be possible to introduce and nine in this House. I have to say that 1970 was every part of such an agreement at the same time, but I another age. There was no Portcullis House with do not think that that should dissuade us, even at this private offices and research assistants. I shared an point, from seeking as much agreement as we can. all-party office. On one side I had Kenneth Clarke Indeed, I think it can be argued that in the past we with his smelly cigars and dark brown Hush Puppies—or have been too impatient in trying to introduce pension was it the other way around? Facing me was John plans—not least in implementing the original Beveridge Prescott—soon to be of this parish—who visibly proposals. Therefore, my first point in this debate is scowled as I dictated down the telephone press that we should seek to agree on the goal of a pensions releases defending the Government of Ted Heath. policy, getting as much agreement between the parties At the end of the room was our very much non-coalition as we conceivably can and, above all, seeking to avert a partner, Cyril Smith, who happily did not come too pensions crisis whereby many of those in retirement often to the office. The noble Lord, Lord Pendry, and will be living in hardship. That, I believe, is a cause I tried to find space as best we could. To add to my that all parties can embrace. problems, the first Queen’s Speech of the new I suggest that the basis for such an agreement—in a Government abolished my then constituency of sense, it is what I proposed 25 years ago—is a twin-pillar Nottingham South. It was not altogether a happy system. The first pillar is undoubtedly state provision. beginning at Westminster. The second pillar is personal provision, very much What is the purpose of this example, apart from including workplace pension schemes of the kind that alerting news editors throughout the country of this my noble friend has described. I say in parenthesis significant anniversary next week? My purpose is to that such a twin-pillar system has been in place in make a fundamental point about the history of pensions Switzerland for many years, and it has worked to the policy in the 40 years that I have been at Westminster. great satisfaction of the public there. However, the In this period, we have had one government scheme important point is that both sides are essential. Without after another. In my first Parliament, we dealt with the good state provision, you will not sufficiently encourage pension plan of Dick Crossman and then that of personal saving. The basis must be as generous a Keith Joseph. When in opposition I became my party’s platform state pension as can conceivably be afforded. spokesman on pensions and social security—to universal The structure that we have at present is not particularly surprise, including my own—we had to deal with the generous but it is, without doubt, extremely complex Barbara Castle-Brian O’Malley plan and, in particular, and administratively extremely expensive. It is, above the unlovely-named state earnings-related pensions all, ill understood by the public. I remember that when scheme, SERPS. I learnt during that first debate how it we carried out our own pension review in the 1980s, is in Westminster that when the subject of pensions most people who were members of the state earnings- goes up on the screen, Chambers—here and in the related pension scheme did not know what the scheme 753 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[10 JUNE 2010] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 754 was. I wonder how many today know the detail, or their hearts set entirely on defending compulsory annuities even the outline, of S2P. I would guess not very many. at 75. I note that the noble Lord does not shake his I also wonder how you can plan for old age if you do head on this occasion. not know the basis of your pension provision. However, that is what the Treasury decreed. Let us Therefore, I think that the basic state pension make no mistake; it is not something exclusive to should now be put together with the state second Labour Governments. I say from personal experience pension with the aim of lifting the pension level above that such interference is not unique. I could write a pension credit. There would then be a decent platform chapter of a book on how my own review was damaged. pension. I accept that it may not be possible to do all In fact, from memory, I think that I have written a that at the same time but affordability can come, for chapter of a book on that. Let us hope that the example, from adjusting the pension age. Again, it was sensible decisions on annuity marks a new era in the a quarter of a century ago that I advocated flexible intervention of the Treasury. retirement up to the age of 70. As for paying the I always said when carrying out my own review that pension, I propose—it has already been proposed and we were making policy in a cold climate. If it was cold I think it is very sensible—that you start with the then, it is positively arctic today. Even so, I believe that over-75s and then move down the age scale. However, we can make progress. The Chancellor has already my basic point is that even in the present circumstances shown that on annuities. As for the parties, we can we can make some moves towards the goal of better certainly debate the speed of improvement and the pensions in this country. other important improvements that can be made for, I then come to the second pillar—personal provision. say, married women and the details of automatic Here workplace pension schemes are fundamental enrolment. It would be of enormous benefit if the and I certainly support everything that my noble friend parties, after 40 years of debate, could agree the principles has said about that, particularly what he said about and the structure of what we want to achieve. That automatic enrolment. As he said, the policy must be would be an enormous step forward and it would also right in the long term. Automatic enrolment is an be in the spirit of today when we are all seeking as important step forward. I listened with concern, as I much common ground as we conceivably can in all am sure the House did, to the figures of the survey areas of policy-making. We are seeking to prevent that he quoted. That is not good news for future hardship in old age and pensions policy is a crucial policy. He made important points about the detail of part of that. the automatic assessment. I shall not repeat all those points but they are important. Lord Lea of Crondall: Can I be clear that the noble The essential point is that we know enough about Lord is strongly supporting the automatic enrolment how people put off making a contribution to realise principle? There is all this talk about people not being that something of this kind is needed in the public aware of it, not supporting it, and so on. We have had interest. It is also entirely fair that personal pensions the big review—the Turner review—and we have a should be a combination of personal contribution, policy to make sure that for the first time everybody employer contribution and tax relief. Again I remember has some buy-in through the company for which they when we were going round this course in the 1980s work. It includes both employers and employees, and with the state earnings-related pension scheme. At one we have heard neither the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, stage we were proposing that it should go and considering whose speech I very much admired, nor the noble what we should put in its place. I proposed exactly the Lord, Lord Fowler, saying that we have to sell this kind of workplace pensions now in legislation. I think harder despite some of the propaganda against it by that we proposed a rather bigger contribution from the private insurance industry. employers than that being proposed today. The Treasury predictably opposed us on grounds of the tax relief Lord Fowler: It is marvellous that when one tries to bill and the decisive intervention in that debate came reach agreement the noble Lord immediately looks for from the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, who disagreement. There is no disagreement with him on supported absolutely our proposal, including employer that point; there is no disagreement from my noble contribution. friend and none from me. We want automatic enrolment. It should be emphasised and underlined that a I said that about five times but the noble Lord may not pension contribution is a very good investment for any have been listening at the time. Of course we need to company that is intent on trying to keep good staff promote and sell it, but let us not have a bashing and employees. We are also trying to make saving as match and go back to the old business at which the attractive as we possibly can. In that respect I welcome noble Lord is rather adept of having a go at the very much the decision of the Government to do away industry or whoever his latest target happens to be. Of with the absurd restriction that you must take an course I agree with automatic enrolment and of course annuity at the age of 75. We have been fighting about it needs to be sold. That is also the view of my noble that in the previous Parliament and before. There was friend. never any particular justification for that policy and it is encouraging to see the Government moving so 12.11 pm quickly. I am sure that my noble friend needs no Baroness Hollis of Heigham: My Lords, I, too, instruction here, but I observe that not all pensions thank the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for introducing policy is made in his department. I am sure that the this debate today. There is very little that I would ex-Pensions Ministers from the previous Government disagree with within what the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, who seem to be around the House today did not have said. The crisis in occupational pensions, which certainly 755 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[LORDS] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 756

[BARONESS HOLLIS OF HEIGHAM] out the NEST problem, the removal of annuitisation exists, has a deeper base, which is the issue of longevity. at 75 problem and the stakeholder problem. That is A quarter of all women, which I reckon is, or was, not bad, and it is all for broadly the same cost as now. about three of us in this Chamber, will live to 95. Fifty In order to make it attractive to save, we have to years from now, the Lancet estimates that the median allow low-paid people, who often have no other savings, life expectancy will be more than 100 years—102—with access to a slice of their pension fund, perhaps represented half above it as well as half below. There are now more by the 25 per cent tax-free lump sum, otherwise women, 65-year olds and above than there are under-16s. We in particular, will not save if they have to lock the all live a year for every three. money away for 40 years when they may face all sorts It was not until about 2005-06 and the report of the of financial tumult in their working lives from divorce, noble Lord, Lord Turner, that actuaries started building disability or the need for running away money. We that in, after five years in which many companies had need to find appropriate low-cost vehicles in which to been taking contribution holidays. The resulting panic save. I have great hopes for auto-enrolment and also of renewed employer contributions at much higher for employers’contributions into existing shell stakeholder levels accentuated by FRS 1719 and the collapse of pensions. For example, we know that where employers the markets since then means that when I last checked, do not contribute to a shell stakeholder pension, only only four of the FTSE top 100 companies still had 13 per cent of employees contribute, but where employers their DB schemes open to new members. We all know contribute, something like 80 to 90 per cent of employees that in DC schemes, the employer’s contribution is contribute. As a result of NEST, people who are lower 6 per cent, rather than 16 per cent in DB schemes, so paid or are working in businesses with fewer than five the employee gets a smaller pot, together with investment members of staff—the cut-off point for stakeholder risk, disinvestment risk, inflation and longevity risks, pensions—will have the opportunity to come into all falling on the shoulders of people who find pensions auto-enrolment. intimidating. We end up in the DC private sector with I shall raise some detailed issues about NEST, and I only 40 per cent of people covered, compared to hope the Minister will bear with me. I hope they will 85 per cent in the DB public sector. It is coverage and be considered in the 2017 review. NEST is targeted at adequacy as much as pension type that divides private the low paid, who are disproportionately women, who and public sector pensions, which is why I so welcome are probably earning between £10,000 and £20,000 a auto-enrolment, either into an existing pension or into year. Given that they are low paid, to start with the a shell stakeholder—which may be the most important NEST pots will be pretty small. I accept that you element of all this, where we know that if employers cannot ask kitchen-table employers to contribute more do not contribute, employees will not, and which will than 3 per cent at this stage, although would I hope therefore have an employers’ content for the first time— that in time that would rise to at least 5 per cent. and NEST. I shall put four propositions to the Minister that Will auto-enrolment work? Yes. When Scottish and would make NEST work and make it safe and attractive, Newcastle went from opting in to opting out, it went which are the two criteria that dominate the debate. within a matter of months from 45 per cent contributions When NEST has rolled out, employers will contribute to 90 per cent contributions. The only people opting only 3 per cent, which will be 8 per cent in total, on out were student workers. So there is huge potential. earnings above the LEL. That means that someone on As always, I am especially concerned with the implication half average earnings—£10,000 to £11,000—will get a of auto-enrolment for the low paid, especially women. pot built on contributions of only just over half of Should low-paid people be auto-rolled? Without trying that—£6,000—unlike other occupational pensions, which to go over the arguments that some of us raised in take the whole of the earnings range into account. I debate on the Queen’s Speech, only if it is safe to save believe that where an employee wishes to contribute and only if it is attractive to save. We must make it safe on all her earnings, including those below the LEL, as and attractive. Here, I entirely support the noble Lord, happens in other OPs, she should be allowed and Lord Fowler. Increasingly, there is all-party consensus encouraged to do so, and where she does, so must the and full industry support for a new state pension employer. To do the full range for somebody on £11,000 a which lifts people off means-tested pension credit. year would cost the employer an additional £4.50 a As Steve Webb, who is now the Minister for week, but the employee’s pot would more than double. Pensions, and I argue in a pamphlet, which can be Paying in only above the LEL for, say, 20 years on found at www.soapboxcommunications.co.uk/anewstate £11,000 a year would give her a pot of around £19,000 or pension.pdf, we could fund that pension by putting an extra pension of around £19 a week, on which she into one pot BSP, the state second pension capped promptly loses 40p in the pound on pension credit, so at 2020 to give the extra headspace, and pension she ends up only approximately £11 a week better off. credit. At a stroke, there is a pension floating people Put in the new state pension, and she would keep that off pension credit and thus making it safe to save and £19—as opposed to £11—in full. Allow—indeed, pay to save. Without such a platform, too many people encourage—her to pay on all her earnings, at a cost to will be at risk of mis-selling, and if we do not do it, her of an extra £5 a week, and her pot doubles to some issues such as annuitisation at 75 will be at risk. If we £35,000 and she gets £35 a week, which brings her off scrap annuitisation at 75, which I support, then, but pension credit. She keeps every penny and has a real, only then, if it is underpinned by a safe new state decent opportunity of comfort. So she could get £11 a pension, savers would no longer have to annuitise a week, £19 a week or £35 a week. By doubling her slice of their pot to keep them off pension credit contribution, she receives three times her pension, and should they blow it all. A new state pension also sorts by making a new state pension, she receives double her 757 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[10 JUNE 2010] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 758 pension—a huge increase for a modest additional safe and, secondly, to make it attractive. Ninety-five cost, which, as I say, is about £4.50 a week or so for the per cent of the bits are in place, and it would not take average employer. much to have a new picture on the jigsaw box. We Secondly, I want NEST to offer access to that would then have a landscape that was built on consensus 25 per cent lump sum to encourage saving. After all, if and that could last us for a couple of generations. a financial emergency hits you, it is much cheaper to borrow from yourself than from loan sharks charging 12.23 pm 500 per cent APR down the road. Baroness Greengross: My Lords, I declare an interest Thirdly, I want NEST to raise its ceiling in due as president of the Pensions Policy Institute and head course from £3,000 a year. I know that providers of of the UK International Longevity Centre. I, too, other pensions were worried at the time that money congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, on securing that goes to them will be diverted, but, frankly, once a very timely debate. He has raised some important NEST has settled down, we should permit it. Why is it issues and asked some significant questions. I also okay to have a £10,000 cap on ISAs but only a £3,000 cap congratulate the other speakers today, who have been on pensions—on NEST? That is nonsensical. quite exceptional. I know that those who follow me Fourthly, NEST and other auto-enrol schemes really will be the same, so my comments will be brief. must help us with the problem of orphan pots. A I am supportive of auto-enrolment but above all of hairdresser may have had a couple of periods of the important consensus that has emerged about long-term self-employment and built up a small pot of £2,000. She pensions issues. Personal accounts may not be suitable has £18,000 in her NEST pot on retirement, which is for all employees due to their interaction with means-tested modest, but she cannot access that £2,000 because it is benefits. This particularly applies to workers over 55 years floating out there in the ether. She cannot trivially of age, who will always have insufficient time before commute it into cash, because her NEST pot is above retirement to accumulate a significant fund under the the trivial commutation limit. She cannot annuitise it scheme. However, they may have just enough pension because it is too small for providers to do so. She to reduce any benefit entitlement, including passported cannot import it into her NEST holding to raise it to benefits, such as council tax relief, pound for pound. £20,000 because of the preliminary rules that we have As I have said previously, this does not mean that established and which should be reviewed. I know that people should not be auto-enrolled, but it implies that there is good will in the DWP to attach it, so I hope people will need, as the noble Lords, Lord Kirkwood the Minister can tell us how far it has gone with this and Lord Fowler, said, clear information and generic when he replies. It would be unfair if someone in that advice to help them to make informed decisions about hairdresser’s position had saved £20,000 but cannot whether they should stay in or opt out of personal touch 10 per cent of it because of completely arbitrary— accounts and, if I may say so, man-made—rules. The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, pointed to the Finally, I will go slightly wider than the topic, if I extraordinarily awful levels of ignorance among the dare, and say a word about public sector pensions. I general public. The issues are who pays for the information accept that government will wish to review how sustainable and who will provide the information and advice, they are in the current climate. I am a new governor of particularly down the line at the decumulation stage the PPI—a long-established governor of the PPI, the when employment has ceased. An important test of noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, is sitting behind the personal accounts policy will be whether it is me—which is researching possible options for this. possible to design information and generic advice in a One option, which I really want to float today, is for simple and easy-to-understand way to help people to DB for earnings that attract a standard rate, and then decide whether they should opt out of personal accounts. a flip to DC on earnings at a higher rate or at another There are policy options that the Government could figure of, say, £35,000 a year or £30,000, so that the consider to improve the incentives to save for some broadest shoulders bear the risk and those who are groups, particularly those who are heavily at risk. I most in need of protection have the security of a DB hope that the Minister will be able to indicate some of slice. It is a hybrid scheme, and your Lordships are the thinking along these lines. Increasing the trivial quite sensitive about hybrid schemes at the moment. I commutation limit or introducing a limited pension regret that I have not been able to cost the savings, but income disregard could improve the returns from personal it would be fair, protect the low paid and be simple. accounts for some individuals at a cost of increasing Everyone would know what it means, and it would government expenditure on means-tested benefits. share risks, allow public sector employers to have a I know that these are difficult decisions for the better stab at protecting and predicting future liabilities. Government to make. I agree with the noble Lord, It would also discourage the habit of late-life promotion Lord Kirkwood, that a working group of experts to for white men to enhance their pensions. consider some of the important issues that have been I very much welcome today’s debate. I hope that the raised today might be helpful in taking things forward. Minister will clearly show his support for NEST today, We must get this right in the long term as well as the flag up that we will have a review in 2017, confirm that short term. some of the issues that have been raised today and that could transform the financial outcomes for women in 12.26 pm particular will be considered, and that he, like the Baroness Noakes: My Lords, for the avoidance of noble Lord, Lord Fowler, and I, will join in the general doubt, I draw the attention of the House to my consensus that the only way to get the low paid into interests as shown in the register. I do not believe that pension provisions is, first, to make a new state pension any of them constitutes a relevant interest for the 759 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[LORDS] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 760

[BARONESS NOAKES] than was the case in the past—but not every last one. purposes of my participation in today’s debate, but in Policies that try to do too much often run into problems, these difficult times it is always better to be safer and as we have seen with many grandiose projects in the certain. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, public sector. In the world from which I come, achieving on securing this debate so early in this new Parliament. an 80/20 solution—that is, 80 per cent of the benefits I also congratulate my noble friend Lord Freud on his for 20 per cent of the costs—would be regarded as an appointment as Minister and I look forward to his excellent outcome. However, the former Government response. pursued the last percentile of benefit regardless of its As my noble friend Lord Fowler pointed out, pensions cost. are one of those topics that attract only a small group Auto-enrolment is due to start in 2012, which does of usual suspects, who usually know rather a lot about not leave much time to sort out the remaining details. the subject, and so it has turned out again today. It The business community believes that the Government was certainly the case when we considered the Pensions should look again at the draft regulations. The previous Act 2008, which I am sure is engraved on the heart of Government’s first shot at the draft regulations was the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, who so pretty dreadful and business bodies and the pensions ably led for the Government on that Bill. I support industry have been working with the department to try what the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, said about the to get them into a shape that is acceptable. While this noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, and his handling has largely been achieved, there remain aspects that of the Bill—indeed, the whole of his portfolio—as cause disproportionate cost and complexity for employers. Minister. Will the new Government’s review be looking again at When I took part in the debates on the Pensions these regulations in order to see whether greater simplicity Act 2008, sitting in the seat now occupied by the noble and lower costs can be achieved? Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, I was grateful for the The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, will recall our briefing provided by a number of outside bodies, but discussions about qualifying earnings, which have been in particular that from the Confederation of British alluded to. These had a particular impact on employers Industry and the Association of British Insurers. I am who already had good pension schemes but who used grateful to those bodies for briefing me again today for definitions that, although they are common in the the purposes of this debate. It is a pity that the noble private pensions industry, are quite unlike those used Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, is no longer in his place in the Act. The noble Lord was helpful and facilitated after intervening earlier and implying that the attitudes some amendments to the Bill, which allowed the of industry were inimical to auto-enrolment. I can regulations to accommodate the different ways in which certainly confirm that the Association of British Insurers employers are structured as regards their pensions, but and the Confederation of British Industry support that has simply deferred the problem to the regulations. auto-enrolment and are trying to work on the practicalities I understand that the regulations in draft still do not of making it a success. recognise the difficulties for employers. The business As has already been said in the debate, there was a sector has developed a self-certification approach that broad consensus around the Pensions Commission’s is practical and delivers a high degree of conformity, proposals for auto-enrolment as the basis for achieving but that has not yet found favour with the Department a significant increase in the number of those saving for Work and Pensions. I ask my noble friend to towards their retirement. My party always registered ensure that his department will start to operate in a some caveats about the scheme, in particular in relation pragmatic way that supports employers who are trying to costs, to which I should like to return later. I to deliver good workplace pensions rather than penalises understand that the coalition’s Pensions Minister in them for not guaranteeing the last percentile of benefit. another place, Mr Steve Webb, has said that the In addition to the qualifying earnings problems, the Government will go ahead with auto-enrolment but timing arrangements for auto-enrolment into personal that they will review the specifics of the scheme. Like accounts are also a problem. It is inefficient if, as the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, I hope that my noble currently planned, the rules require the enrolment of friend can give some more details today about that people who are likely to opt out—short-term workers, review. He must be aware that employers and the for example. Business would like enrolment to be pensions industry need to know what this review will delayed for, say, 30 days, which would avoid most of entail, who will undertake it, when it is expected to be the unnecessary paperwork. To date this has been completed and who will be consulted. If there is any resisted, so will my noble friend ensure that the department substantial uncertainty about the way ahead, that will looks at this again? The Government also need to look inevitably affect the willingness of the business community again at the impact on very small businesses. Again in to devote significant resources to continuing to prepare their zeal to pursue the last percentile, the previous for something that may change. I hope that we can Government included even the smallest employer, have more clarity on this today. including someone employing one person, such as a In my view, the previous Government’s approach nanny or a housekeeper. had one fundamental flaw. They built their scheme of The previous Government also rejected using HMRC auto-enrolment around the proposition that every to administer the scheme alongside PAYE and, in so employee earning above the threshold should be included. doing, they created an administrative cost for the I believe that this is an unrealistic approach, which in scheme and a burden for small employers that are practice has produced real difficulties. The prize for disproportionate. I hope that my noble friend will say society as a whole is to get a significant number of that the new Government will look again at taking people saving for their retirement and saving more micro-employers out of the ambit of auto-enrolment. 761 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[10 JUNE 2010] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 762

The previous Government never faced up to the Lastly, there will also be costs to the Pensions very real threat to workplace pensions of employers Regulator for policing auto-enrolment. I understand levelling down to the personal accounts scheme. Every that those costs, too, will be met by further public time the Department for Work and Pensions insists on money. Will my noble friend say how much that will an employer-unfriendly rule, it makes it harder to cost? Why is the cost of regulation not borne by maintain an existing workplace pension scheme and pension savings, as happens with other forms of pension increases the likelihood that employers will simply saving? default into the personal accounts scheme. This will I do not have to remind my noble friend that we live hurt employees because most workplace schemes in an age when public expenditure must be cut and contribute more than is required under the 2008 Act. that we cannot afford, as the previous Government Our Government need to recognise that encouraging planned, to carry on spending regardless of the workplace pensions means encouraging employers, consequences. That may mean that the scheme for not hitting them with administration and regulation. auto-enrolment and personal accounts has to be trimmed This is part of a bigger theme of government action in order to fit what can be afforded. We cannot have harming workplace pensions. It started in a big way everything that we want. I support auto-enrolment, with the ACT raid of 1997 and has got worse over the but not at any cost. I have major concerns about the past 13 years. I hope that we can return to those cost to employers and the cost to the public purse. I broader issues on another day. hope that my noble friend will be prepared to take I emphasise that there is one area in which the radical action when the Government review their business community does not want change—the timetable inheritance on auto-enrolment. When they do that, I for implementation. I know that when my party was in hope that they will also abandon the notion of chasing opposition we criticised the previous Government’s every last percentile. draft timetable, which will delay full implementation of the employer contribution until 2017, but I believe 12.41 pm that it is a pragmatic approach that allows a reasonable time for employers to plan for the cost implications of Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, I join other auto-enrolment. I hope that my noble friend can confirm noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, today that the new Government will not shorten the for initiating this debate, which gives us a timely timetable. opportunity to understand the proposed direction of I turn now to costs. In opposition, my party did not travel of the coalition Government on this important believe that the personal accounts scheme could be matter. I thank both him and the noble Baroness, delivered for the 0.3 per cent annual charge that the Lady Noakes, for their kind comments. Pensions Commission calculated, and so it has proved. The debate gives us a chance to test whether the While there will be an annual charge of 0.3 per cent, broad consensus around pension reform hitherto still there will be a whopping 2 per cent upfront charge in holds. Noble Lords will be aware—it has been referred order to cover the set-up costs. In addition, according to today—that this was anchored largely in the work to a Written Answer that I received from the noble of the Turner commission. It is a particular pleasure Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, just before the to note that another member of that commission, Dissolution of the previous Parliament, the personal Jeannie Drake, will shortly join your Lordships’ House accounts scheme will start this summer with a debt of on the Labour Benches. more than £60 million and over the following five It has been a very good, if short, debate. The noble years will borrow another £400 million from the Lord, Lord Kirkwood, called on the Government to Government. There is no sign that when we get to show some enthusiasm for auto-enrolment—I certainly 2015 the appetite for public money will have run out. endorse that. He and others have pressed on the scope While the 2 per cent upfront charge may be necessary of the review, to which I should like to return in my to keep these huge borrowing figures from ballooning contribution. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord even further, no date has been set for its removal. The Fowler, on his upcoming 40th anniversary.I am delighted CBI is concerned that the 2 per cent charge will that he will soon be reunited with John Prescott. increase opt-out rates and thereby defeat the purpose We had a fascinating trip down the memory lane of of the policy. The perceived returns on saving will pensions: graduated pensions, SERPS and S2P. I say simply not be sufficient, particularly for older workers to the noble Lord that S2P has been simplified, squeezing being enrolled. Is my noble friend satisfied that the out some of the earnings-related component of it. costs that underpin the need for this upfront charge Perhaps we might find another opportunity, together and the massive borrowing are reasonable and that the with the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, to debate what scheme has not been overengineered? has happened to defined benefit schemes. I might just Perhaps more worrying is that the previous ask the Minister whether the so-called tax raid on Government announced in March that they proposed pension funds will be reversed by the coalition additionally to subsidise the scheme to an unspecified Government. extent on the basis that it would have to accept all As regards the need to annuitise at 75—or the need comers, which the commission had not thought necessary not to do so—I have been an agnostic on that because when it produced its 0.3 per cent costing. Can my it has nothing to say to those who are likely to benefit noble friend say today what this proposed subsidy will for auto-enrolment. Auto-enrolment is to deal with cost? Do the new Government sign up to the subsidy people who undersave, who need their income in on top of the high lending that has to be provided to retirement and who do not have the opportunity to the scheme? store it up and pass it on as an inheritance. When the 763 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[LORDS] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 764

[LORD MCKENZIE OF LUTON] As ever in these matters, the challenges come in proposals come forward, we will look at the tax treatment the detail of the earnings on which employers’ of pots that are left and then passed on as an inheritance, contributions are to be made; what the mechanics are and whether that properly takes account of inheritance surrounding the process of auto-enrolment and the tax. It would be quite wrong to use it to open up a tax right to opt out; what safeguards there are in the loophole. system to discourage employers with existing My noble friend Lady Hollis, as ever, made a thought- provision from levelling down and what existing provision provoking contribution, stressing particularly issues satisfies the auto-enrolment tests; what information around longevity and the huge potential for auto- should be provided to employees; whether advice should enrolment. She spoke of the challenges of small pension be provided to all or any groups of individuals being pots and the emerging consensus around a new state auto-enrolled; and what compliance and anti-avoidance pension. I take the point exactly that, if that were to be measures are required. On the low-cost national scheme, achieved, it would help on issues around the interaction there are issues around not being favourably treated so of benefits. as to prejudice private sector providers; the funding and charging arrangements; the sheer operational and The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, remains governance issues of a trust-based scheme with potentially supportive of auto-enrolment, and again stressed the 1 million employers and several million members; the importance of consensus, on this issue of the interaction nature of the investments of the fund; and how lifestyling with the benefit system. Consensus was an issue that is to be organised for so many members—indeed, how the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, also acknowledged. the scheme administration is to be accomplished. I am intrigued about proposals on the scope of coverage Much of this, subject to any review which the and all employees not necessarily having to be covered. Government may wish to undertake and advise us of I accept that issues around self-certification, trying to today, is settled. Regulations are in force which prescribe give administrative easements to employers while still the arrangements which the employer must follow to encompassing a broad range of employees, have proved comply with the employer duties on automatic enrolment. a challenge. I think that there were a couple of goes at I believe that there was a broad consensus on that; we it and would acknowledge that it was unfinished work had two goes at it to try to improve the original draft, in progress when we left office. and I thought that there was an acceptance that there The Turner commission was established to consider was a considerable improvement. There were issues the long-term challenges facing the UK pension system, around information requirements, opting out, and characterised by undersaving for retirement, inequalities duties towards voluntary savers. Existing regulations and complexity in the state pension system and also cover the point in time at which employers will demographic and social change. Changes to the state have to start to comply with their duties and the pension, making it fairer and more generous, were minimum contribution level which employers and implemented from April this year, providing a firmer employees will have to make. foundation upon which people can build savings for Arrangements have been made for the national their retirement. Notwithstanding these improvements scheme which provide for the winding up of the Personal to the state pension system, including the coalition Accounts Delivery Authority, as it has completed its Government’s announcements about uprating, which task of providing its advice and designing and developing I welcome, it will not provide the retirement income to the infrastructure of the new low-cost scheme. Statutory which many people aspire. It is estimated that around instruments have given effect to the scheme order, 7 million people are currently not saving enough to which will actually create the new scheme—to be obtain a reasonable replacement rate of income in called the National Employment Savings Trust or retirement. In excess of 40 per cent of working-age NEST—as a trust-based, occupational pension scheme. employees are not contributing to a private pension. This is currently due to inherit property, rights and liabilities from PADA in July 2010 and thereafter to be The reasons for that are complex, but they include responsible for implementing and running the scheme. issues around low financial literacy, inertia, lack of provision especially for those on low and moderate A lot has been accomplished but there is a lot of incomes, as well as declining employer provision away work still in hand. Like other noble Lords, I acknowledge from defined benefit schemes towards contract-based the desire of the coalition Government to take stock DC schemes—hence a role for government intervention. and review matters, and this obviously raises a number That government intervention had two key components. of questions. We have heard some of this from other One was a system of automatic enrolment requiring noble Lords, but I should be grateful if the Minister employers to make a minimum contribution to their would deal with the following points, either in responding workers’ pension funds and a new national pension to this debate or later in writing. scheme designed to provide a simple, low-cost way of We understand that there is to be a review of saving for low to moderate income earners—originally aspects of auto-enrolment. Like the noble Lord, Lord personal accounts. Put simply, that was our starting Kirkwood, and the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, I consensus, enshrined in primary legislation in the Pensions ask the Minister to tell us a little about the scope of Act 2008. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, I the review and what drives its timing. I think that this remember it well. But the consensus did not just is a separate review from the 2017 review. I take it that involve political parties; it involved a significant range the coalition Government remain committed to the of stakeholders, including the CBI, the TUC and the concept of auto-enrolment, and that this is not to be ABI. By and large, that consensus has held, which is to abandoned. I accept that already from the tenor of be welcomed. today’s debate. 765 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[10 JUNE 2010] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 766

Is it envisaged that the scope would remain as So what are the concerns? Is the suggestion that currently planned, or are there any proposals to curtail NEST has the wrong business model, or is the contention the range of employers subject to the duty or limit the that the existing private sector providers could serve range of income to which the duty applies? the target market better? The latter would be surprising, As currently planned, the auto-enrolment process as they have lamentably failed to do so in the past. would commence in 2012 and be staged over a four-year Will the Minister give us an assurance that there is no period so that all employers would be within the duty intention to move away from the universal service by 2016. As for employer and employee contributions, obligation envisaged for NEST or indeed that the the phasing currently provides for an initial period scheme should be other than a low-cost scheme? where minimum employer and employee contributions Securing dignity and security for tomorrow’s pensioners would commence at 1 per cent each and not reach the is the business of Government. The reforms that we full 3 per cent and 5 per cent respectively until October initiated were founded on the principles of personal 2017. Is it envisaged that either of these would change, responsibility, fairness, simplicity, affordability and and is it the Government’s desire to accelerate the sustainability, which has helped build the consensus. employer duty obligations, leave them unchanged or We hope that that consensus will endure. We look introduce them at a slower pace? forward to hearing what the Minister has to say and seeing the results of the review in due course. Fears of employers with existing provision “levelling down” have been ever present, despite DWP research that shows that this is generally unlikely. Are the 12.55 pm Government contemplating any further arrangements The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, to allay any such concerns, which we have heard Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): My expressed again today? Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for On a wider point, one of the commitments in the raising this debate and providing the House with an coalition programme is the undertaking to explore opportunity to discuss this important issue. I also opportunities for people to access part of their pension congratulate those taking part and join the noble early, presumably looking at the New Zealand and Baroness, Lady Greengross, in her congratulations to US experience. I know that this concept is much those people on such an extraordinarily high quality beloved of my noble friend Lady Hollis, although of of debate, which I personally found extremely valuable course not beloved of the Treasury, but I am interested as we shape the immediate period ahead. in the Minister’s view on this and on whether shifting During the past decade, we have seen a big decline emphasis from something that is overwhelmingly about in the level of pension saving in the UK. Overall provision for retirement to an effective lifetime savings saving in the private sector workplace in terms of account will change the paradigm with regard to pension provision has fallen, from 46 per cent of employers’ willingness to contribute beyond statutory employees in 1997 to 37 per cent in 2009. That means minimums. that 2.6 million more people are not saving in a Another concern expressed about auto-enrolment workplace pension. In the same period, the availability was the risk of mis-selling because individuals would of defined benefit schemes in the private sector has not get full value for their contributions as they would also declined, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, lose benefit—possibly, in some cases, pound for pound pointed out, and membership fell by 1 million between for any pension income secured—and this despite 2005 and 2009. detailed analysis demonstrating that overwhelmingly For those in defined contribution schemes, there individuals would get positive returns. At the time of has been a decade of lost growth in the primary the legislation there was much debate about whether market—the equity market. The average real rate of people should be able to access advice as well as just return between 1999 and 2009 was minus 1.2 per cent receive information. There was a Lib Dem amendment, per annum, and just last month the typical pension as I recall, that suggested that anyone of 50 or over fund performance for balanced managed funds was should get one hour of free financial advice. In this down 3 per cent. regard, I note and welcome a commitment of the While those trends have been happening, life expectancy coalition Government to create a free national advice in the UK has reached its highest level on record and service, apparently to be funded by a levy on the will increase further to the point where in 2050 there financial services sector. Is the Minister able to tell us will be just three working people for each pensioner. more about this, such as when it is expected to be up The reality is that, if people want to enjoy a decent and running and the likely structure and level of the standard of living in retirement, we all as individuals levy? Will this overlap with the proposed banking and as a nation need to be much better prepared. But levy? that, of course, is not the only problem we face. Whatever else the review is to cover, we understand Whatever we do now needs to be seen in the context of that it will cover the suitability of NEST as a delivery the worst recession since the Second World War, and mechanism for auto-enrolment. We know that NEST the need to reduce the unprecedented fiscal deficit. As is well advanced in its preparations: it takes over from a nation, we simply cannot afford to continue without PADA in July, trustees have been appointed, arrangements a step change in our savings culture. for the scheme administration are in hand and an This coalition wants to see the principles of fairness, impressive team has been assembled to address the responsibility and social justice apply to both our full-range challenges of running a scheme of this welfare and pension agendas. The Government want magnitude. to encourage individuals to take more personal 767 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[LORDS] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 768

[LORD FREUD] to nearer 90 per cent. Another example is New Zealand, responsibility for themselves by saving more and saving where the introduction of automatic enrolment is longer towards a retirement income that will meet estimated to have doubled pension savings in the their expectations. Already, we are in a position today KiwiSaver product over a three-year period. where 45 per cent of pensioner households are entitled As we made clear in our coalition programme, we to pension credit, and 50 per cent to council tax remain committed to automatic enrolment, but we benefit. It is not sustainable for the state to continue to need to find the right way to make it work. A lot has meet the challenges of undersaving all on its own. changed since the Pensions Commission published its The state pension needs to provide a fair and solid recommendations back in 2005. Given the current foundation for people to save for their retirement, so economic climate, it is essential that we ensure that this Government will restore the earnings link with the automatic enrolment is introduced in a way that strikes basic state pension from April next year with a “triple the right balance between cost and benefits, and ensures guarantee” so that it will rise by the higher of earnings, maximum value for money for individuals, for employers prices or 2.5 per cent. However, at the same time, we and for the public purse. need to restore confidence in public finances, so we Our review of these reforms will cover the scope of will hold a review to set the date at which the state existing plans for automatic enrolment and NEST. pension age starts to rise to 66 years. Noble Lords would agree that it is vital that the We also want a more flexible approach to retirement. Government take ownership of this initiative so that People need to be able to retire when it is right for we have cross-party agreement on this, which, as my them, so we intend to phase out the default retirement noble friend Lord Kirkwood pointed out, is so essential. age and will be consulting with employers and others We will reach our conclusions quickly and take a on how to do this. However, if we are to have a hard look over the summer at the plans that we have pension system which is fair and sustainable into the inherited. If necessary, we will make changes to ensure future, we also need to reverse the significant decline that the reforms deliver for individuals, employers and in private pension saving that we have witnessed in the the taxpayer. past decade. That is why we continue to support automatic enrolment. Let me deal with the many fascinating points raised We want to encourage employers to provide high in debate; I will aim to get through as many as possible. quality pensions for their employees, but additionally we want to explore options that will stimulate greater Baroness Hollis of Heigham: I was fascinated by the personal saving. We are therefore considering additional noble Lord’s point about the review. Which areas in ways of reducing the costs of running pension schemes, particular are the Government concerned about, and making pensions more affordable for employers to will therefore be discussed in the review? I do not run, and investigating ways of making saving more mean what will the conclusions be, but what will the attractive to individuals. Changes such as our commitment territory be? to abolish compulsory annuitisation at 75—as the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, suggested—will provide greater Lord Freud: I thank the noble Baroness. That is flexibility for pension savers in planning for their exactly what I was about to get straight on to. I will future. deal with her particular issues in that context. Before I The big prize here is to help people when they are get into what the review will cover, I start with the working to save more and save for longer, and to make speech of the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, particularly it easier for them to do so—to take responsibility for what he said about employer attitudes and his concerns their future. We need to encourage and enable participation after meeting the people from AXA and reading their in pension saving so that it is no longer the preserve of research. Evidence emerging from our research—a the financially savvy or those who happen to work for large survey of employer attitudes—suggests that 56 per particular employers. Quite simply, we need to get cent of employers believe that these reforms are a people back into the savings habit and ensure that good idea. Seventy-seven per cent believe that when they have access to a good workplace pension scheme. they are already contributing 3 per cent or more. The Pensions Commission’s solution to this dilemma There is no doubt that the cost to employers of automatic was automatic enrolment into a pension scheme, with enrolment is significant. The cost to employers—the mandatory contributions by employers. We on the smallest employers in particular—concerns me and is Government Benches have long been firm supporters something that I want to look at closely in the review. of automatic enrolment. We believe that it will be We are committed to getting the details right. That highly effective at tackling the failures in our pensions is why we are carrying out the review—to ensure that system by increasing participation in pension saving. the proposals work properly. Several participants in At this point, I pay tribute to the work of one of the this debate have asked about the details of the review, earliest behavioural economists, Dr George Loewenstein, including the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, my noble who happens to be my cousin. He created the concept friend Lady Noakes and the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie. of asymmetric paternalism which was so influential in We are finalising the details of the terms of reference, getting these automatic enrolment features in a range including who will conduct the review, its process, its of public provision. The evidence shows that it works, reporting and so on. We hope to make an announcement leading to increased participation. Your Lordships encompassing those issues soon. To offer some have only to look at the United States, where automatic reassurance, we are concerned about the impact on enrolment increased membership of its 401(k) schemes employers, particularly small employers. We also want among new employees from around 20 to 40 per cent to look at the position of older workers. We will review 769 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[10 JUNE 2010] Pensions: Automatic Enrolment 770 the contract for the NEST administration services, but noble friend Lady Noakes that we will take a hard with an open mind; if it fits with what is needed we look at those costs and that we will not spend money will run with it. We aim to reach our conclusions unnecessarily. quickly. Again, the detail is yet to be determined, but I It is vital that individuals have information about expect we will know where we are with this before the opting out. The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, is concerned House returns after the summer. about that. That will be critical to the success of the The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, asked about the reforms. We are working closely with the Pensions NEST charging structure and whether we would keep Regulator to ensure that there is coherent and consistent it. He will infer, from my last answer, that that is a level information. of detail that we have not yet got to. The first question The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, and the noble Baroness, to ask is: does the scope of auto-enrolment work for Lady Hollis, talked about the state of our state provision. both individuals and employers? Scope is key here. The noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, again drew to our Secondly, given that, is NEST, as it is currently configured, attention, as she did in her excellent speech last week, the right intervention? her booklet, A New State Pension. I was touched to think of her running on to the age of 95, and I hope The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, asked about the that she does. However, it is slightly invidious to say certification process and whether that meshed with the that, statistically, only three noble Baronesses who BIS drive to reduce red tape. We are committed to were then present in the Chamber would do so, as I recognising and maintaining existing high quality pension count seven who are now present, so it is a case of pot provision. That means developing a process for employers luck. There are clearly attractions in combining various with good money purchase schemes to show that their elements of the state pension to introduce a single scheme meets the minimum requirements for auto- decent state pension. However, a large number of enrolment. This is called the certification process. In issues, not least one of them being cost, need to be the coming months, DWP officials will work with the considered before we introduce such a scheme. pensions industry and directly with employers to develop effective processes to support automatic enrolment. I am very conscious that I am running out of This includes straightforward ways for employers to time—unless noble Lords want to give me three more assure themselves that their pension schemes qualify minutes. under the law. Baroness Anelay of St Johns: No. The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, queried the four-year implementation period. We are fully committed to Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope: Shame. taking forward the automatic enrolment provisions Lord Freud: I saw someone else obtain three minutes under the Pensions Act 2008. However, the effects the other day, but this is not permissible. I will write to over the medium and long term will be huge. That noble Lords on other issues that I have not managed is why we want to take stock of where things are; that to cover. I have a lot to write to noble Lords about; I is what the review is about and I do not want to apologise. prejudge it. Our goal is straightforward— The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, concentrated my mind on wider savings incentives. It is critically important Baroness Anelay of St Johns: That is it. that people have confidence in saving towards their retirement if we are to deliver the step change in Lord Freud: I close by thanking all noble Lords savings behaviour that we want. The department’s who have taken part in this debate and I will write analysis is that more than 99 per cent of people can where I have not responded. expect to be better off in retirement if they have saved Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope: My Lords, I am seriously than if they have not saved. However, we need to take grateful to the Minister. It is perfectly understandable, seriously the possibility of someone facing a loss. The because he had questions of very high quality thrown problem is that the people who fall into this category at him from all sides, that it was impossible for him to are not like leopards with spots that one can see respond in the time allotted, but perhaps he could beforehand; that situation emerges later, so it is a respond—the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, said that difficult problem. It is important that we allow people there were common issues—and take advantage of the to take personal responsibility. However, the noble useful briefing that is already in his inside pocket. Lord, Lord Fowler, made the point that people are Perhaps he can put copies in envelopes and send them woefully ignorant in this area. I think that the noble to us in due course. It would be extremely helpful if we Lord, Lord Kirkwood, said that he used the term could be told the terms of reference for the review “ignorant” in the best way in that regard. There is before the House rises for the Summer Recess. Obtaining ignorance in this area, which means that it is very hard a fuller response by the time that we return after the for people to take personal responsibility. Clearly, this Recess is an acceptable timetable, if the noble Lord is a vital area which we will address in our review. can keep to it. I promise that if he does not keep to it, The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, mentioned the some of us will remind him of the target date that he costs of the Personal Accounts Delivery Authority set for himself. I am very grateful for his reply, which and the impact of any expenditure cuts. The reduction will repay careful study, and to colleagues for contributing of the deficit is a number one priority for the Government. to the debate. I am seriously interested in the fact that Therefore, we will need to look right through the cost the coalition Government are now committed to base to ensure that the costs are justified and that asymmetric paternalism, in addition to the other matters savings can be made where possible. I reassure my in the joint agreement. 771 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment[LORDS] Zimbabwe 772

[LORD KIRKWOOD OF KIRKHOPE] invasions, and that totally destroyed the fabric of the These are pesky issues with which we will all have to agricultural sector, which had for many years been the wrestle, but knowing the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, to bread-basket of Africa. be a hospitable host with a 40th anniversary approaching, As we all know, over the past decade the country I am sure that we can all console ourselves when he has endured rampant inflation and critical food and convenes—we all look forward to joining him in the fuel shortages. By March 2008, when Zimbabwe was Bishops’ Bar, or wherever, to celebrate his distinguished hyperinflating and a 100 trillion Zimbabwe dollar note anniversary. I am very happy to withdraw the Motion. was worth barely £10, shops were empty, farms were totally unproductive, the population was starving with Motion withdrawn. more than 90 per cent unemployment, and the president’s popularity was at rock bottom. When he lost the Zimbabwe election and was on the verge of conceding and standing down, unfortunately the generals and strong political Debate allies who controlled the army, the air force, the police and the justice system refused to allow him to do so 1.17 pm and, we understand, they persuaded him that he could Moved By Lord St John of Bletso win the presidential run-off. That led to a spate of rampant human-rights violations To call attention to developments in Zimbabwe; and beatings of opposition supporters, particularly in and to move for Papers. the rural areas, which forced Morgan Tsvangirai, the leader of the MDC, to drop out of the election, Lord St John of Bletso: My Lords, I am extremely making the rerun for the presidency a total farce. It grateful to have the opportunity to debate current was at this point that the President of South Africa, developments in Zimbabwe. I thank all noble Lords Thabo Mbeki, negotiated the deal that resulted in the for agreeing to speak in the debate. I had hoped that global peace agreement—the GPA—on 19 September there would be a few more speakers, but at least we 2008. However, the transition was hindered by Mbeki’s have the benefit of not being short on time. close relationship with Robert Mugabe, and it was The last full debate in your Lordships’ House on only Mbeki’s removal in early 2009 and a deal negotiated Zimbabwe was in March 2005. Since then there have by interim President Motlanthe that paved the way for been several Questions for Short Debate. The other a transition coalition Government. place recently debated the all-party group’s report, The appointment of Tendai Biti, the Finance Minister Land in Zimbabwe: Past Mistakes and Future Prospects, from the MDC, in 2009, the legalisation of the multi- on the vexed issue. At the outset, I pay respect to the currency system and the scrapping of the Zimbabwe contributions of the late Lady Park of Monmouth dollar ended the patronage system that ZANU-PF and Lord Blaker, both of whom were ardent campaigners had built through the reserve bank and effectively for democratisation and for human rights protection side-lined the Zimbabwe reserve bank. Today, nearly in Zimbabwe. They are sorely missed and their 18 months into the multi-currency system, exchange contributions were greatly appreciated by all. controls are effectively non-existent. For the first time It is perhaps opportune that this debate is taking since the 1960s, shops are full, restaurants are buzzing place on the eve of the opening of the World Cup, and businesses have taken off. Thanks to the support whereby global attention is focused on not just South from NGOs and Governments around the world, Africa and the great sporting spectacle, but the humanitarian aid has been extended to schools and opportunities and challenges facing the region. Some hospitals, as government revenues could not possibly commentators may argue that the past 10 years in sustain such an expense. The result is that schools and Zimbabwe have been a lost decade. So I thought that hospitals are now all open and there is clean running in addressing the current developments in Zimbabwe, water in most of the hospitals. I should speak briefly on the background to the political In the agricultural sector, while land invasions and economic demise of the country. unfortunately continue, they are no longer driven by Essentially, all was well in Zimbabwe until 1997, as the ZANU-PF but more by factions within ZANU. the IMF reform programme was being effectively Many farmers are now returning to the land having implemented. However, the free market reforms resulted done deals with the so-called new owners. Seed/maize in a growth of the middle class in Zimbabwe, and production has trebled in the past year. The goldmines wealth creation at the time effectively made ZANU-PF have reopened and investment is now starting to come less relevant under its current system of patronage. back into improving the infrastructure. Of course, one Furthermore, the so-called war vets were not benefiting of the major problems facing the goldmines is the lack from the reforms and growth, and they threatened to of power. However, slowly but surely investment is remove their support for President Robert Mugabe trickling back into the mining sector. unless he helped them. The ensuing massive pay-outs The mining sector has been dogged by one major of bonuses and allowances had a devastating effect on political gamut—the indigenisation regulations to which the fiscal deficit and effectively resulted in the freefall I shall refer later. In previous debates in your Lordships’ of the Zimbabwe dollar in 1997. The war vets then House many have rightly argued that South Africa has carried on with their threats, which led to the calls for not exerted enough pressure to bring about meaningful radical land reform. When Robert Mugabe lost the change in Zimbabwe. Following his state visit in March, referendum in 2000, he blamed the white farmers for President Zuma assured our Government that he would their support for the MDC. This led to rampant farm exert a lot more pressure on the three parties in the 773 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 774 coalition Government in Zimbabwe to complete the charged by the International Court of Justice for the GPA. Significantly, following his visit he went to Harare abuses dating back to the Gukurahundi massacre of and met all the major party leaders. ZANU agreed to the Matabele way back in 1982. There is some justification the appointment of independent commissions for human for that theory after the arrest of Charles Taylor in rights, media and electoral reform, all of whose members Liberia a few years ago. I encourage our Government have now been agreed and appointed. This week the to promote a constructive dialogue to try to agree a first daily independent newspaper opened its doors as smooth exit for Robert Mugabe from power within a result. The fact that one or two of the journalists ZANU-PF, which would pave the way for a peaceful have subsequently been arrested is perhaps another transition to allow for free and fair elections to be held point that needs to be addressed by the Minister. in that country. There has been a knock-on effect in South Africa I now touch briefly on the rights of women in from all the problems in Zimbabwe. There are more Zimbabwe. In a country where women constitute 52 per than 3 million Zimbabweans living in South Africa cent of the population, it is alarming that only a few who are unregistered, and part of the challenge in hold influential positions in Zimbabwe society. Of the South Africa of reducing the scourge of crime has 69 Cabinet Ministers, Ministers of State, Deputy Ministers been that many of the crime syndicates have been and Provincial Deputy Ministers, only 12 are women. coming in from Zimbabwe. There is also the problem I was interested to read the feedback of Mary Robinson, of xenophobia. Zimbabwe has traditionally had an the former President of Ireland, who, following her industrious, entrepreneurial workforce and still has visit to Zimbabwe a few months ago, noted that the higher levels of education than most countries in representation of women in the Zimbabwe Parliament Africa. Many Zimbabweans who have moved to South has increased from just 10 per cent in 2005 to 15 per Africa have been prepared to work at cheaper rates cent in 2008. That is far short of the SADC goal of than local South Africans which has often led to 50 per cent representation of women in political decision- sporadic conflicts in the townships. Zimbabwe still has making in southern Africa by 2015. Sadly, the human a major dependence on power supply from South rights of women in Zimbabwe are all too often violated. Africa, but while trying to promote political change in I sincerely hope that there will be greater participation the country, South Africa is now encouraging its of women in the consultation leading to the new draft companies to be more proactive in Zimbabwe and constitution. thereby promoting job creation. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, with One of the key challenges in Zimbabwe today will his vast experience in the field of human rights, will be the drafting of the new constitution which will address the problem of human rights abuses and the ensure the success of the GPA. That will encompass need for more proactive pressure to be put on the the protection of human rights and civil liberties and Government there to address that problem. I refer only will lay the foundations for free and fair elections. The to one report, which is the Human Rights Watch constitution is due to be revised over the next nine report published in June last year on the human rights months and that must be in place before the next abuses in the Marange diamond fields in Zimbabwe. elections. Community outreach programmes are a key The Marange diamond fields continue to be one part of this process and clearly Zimbabwean citizens of—perhaps the major remaining—sources of financial must have a say in the development of their own support for propping up Mugabe’s ZANU-PF. I am constitution. Meanwhile the hardliners are doing sceptical of the recent report recommending that the everything they can to frustrate the process through Kimberley process’s minimum requirements have using the Attorney-General, the police or the Army, been met. but it is only a handful of hardliners who are causing My time is up. In conclusion, hyperinflation spelt the problems. The most recent obstacle to change was, the end for ZANU as well as Robert Mugabe. In the as I mentioned before, the gazetting of the indigenisation past decade, Africa has been the second fastest growing regulations that effectively stopped the economy in its region in the world, with GDP growth of 4.7 per cent. tracks. An attempt was made to force all foreign Between 1997 and 2008, GDP grew from $327 billion companies to hand over 50 per cent of their equity to to $1.6 trillion. Sadly, however, GDP in Zimbabwe has local Zimbabweans. declined from $9.5 billion in 1997 to $3.5 billion in the Although we are all in favour of black empowerment, same period. that clearly was more of a political tool. At the time, it I have been accused in your Lordships’ House of was seen as an election winner, but it has backfired being too optimistic about Zimbabwe. I believe that the and it has negatively affected Zimbabwe-owned businesses time has now come for change. I believe that there trying to raise capital. The regulations are currently should be African solutions to African problems. A being revised, as the Prime Minister, Morgan Tsvangirai, successful Zimbabwe further undermines the hardliners. declared them null and void as they had not gone I look forward to the Government’s response. I beg to through Cabinet. move. Many commentators would argue with much justification that, despite the economic achievements 1.35 pm in Zimbabwe since February last year, there is unlikely Lord Sheikh: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, to be any meaningful change until President Robert Lord St John of Bletso, for securing this debate. Africa Mugabe leaves office. At the age of 86, and with his is a continent close to my heart. I was born in Kenya health deteriorating, especially in the past few months, and spent my childhood in Uganda. His Excellency it is conceivable that one of his main reasons for not the Ambassador of Zimbabwe is in the Chamber, and wanting to step down is the fear that he may be I welcome him to your Lordships’ House. 775 Zimbabwe[LORDS] Zimbabwe 776

[LORD SHEIKH] particular and at others in the east of the country. About three weeks ago, I was asked by my Chief What steps will Her Majesty’s Government take to Whip to attend the sixth Consultative Assembly of investigate the widespread allegations that profits from Parliamentarians for the International Criminal Court the diamond trade are fuelling hostilities in Zimbabwe? and the Rule of Law, which was held in Uganda. I In Sierra Leone, the international community witnessed chaired and spoke in the session where the main the use of precious minerals in the pursuit of power to speaker was the chief prosecutor of the International devastating effect. Criminal Court. We discussed the situation in Sudan, We have a moral duty to ensure that Zimbabwe the Democratic Republic of Congo, Kenya and Uganda. does not follow this path and be certified by the I am a businessman who cares greatly about Kimberley Process to sell diamonds. It has seen a humanitarian issues. As a nation, Zimbabwe has fallen marked recovery in manufacturing, mining, agriculture short of expectations since gaining independence from and tourism. Its economic growth suggests that it is the United Kingdom in 1980. Zimbabwe was once a meeting the requirement of the Southern African prosperous state. However, civil unrest, which still Development Community to work towards achieving hinders the nation’s progress, has largely contributed economic liberation, as stated in the Lusaka declaration. to its unfortunate descent. Democracy and the rule of It achieved a gross domestic product of 5.9 per cent in law have been overlooked in favour of tyranny. The 2009, which strongly suggests that the economy is penal system does not always function fairly and there started to show signs of long-term recovery. I welcome have been many incidences where justice has been the African Union’s efforts to enforce good governance lacking. Farms belonging to white citizens have been with proposals to sanction heads of state who engage seized and are being seized as I speak. This brings in unconstitutional behaviour. Greater interaction among back memories of the situation when General Amin African nations could contribute to stability and economic seized the assets of us, the Asians, in the early 1970s, growth on the continent. and there was mayhem in the country until he was removed. The result of studies published by the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa, the African In Zimbabwe, prisons are overcrowded, prisoners Development Bank and the African Union reveals are severely undernourished and the lack of adequate that trade among African nations accounts for just a sanitation contributes to the spread of disease among maximum of 12 per cent. The African Union has a inmates. The recent arrest and alleged torture of gay greater role to play in fostering better regional integration. rights activists is wholly unacceptable. The Zimbabwean South Africa, as the largest investor on the continent, President Robert Mugabe has described same-gender can play a leading role in ensuring that this becomes a couples as “lower than dogs and pigs”. Last December, reality. I raised this issue in your Lordships’ House when I referred to a Private Member’s Bill in Uganda that The Commonwealth, too, can play a prominent seeks to criminalise same-gender couples. There has role to encourage trade among the member states. I also been a well documented case of a couple in would like plans to be put in place to ensure that this Malawi who were sanctioned for that reason. The becomes a reality and that active trade is generated rampant homophobia in certain African nations is a between the various countries. It is estimated that huge concern for us. Will the Minister tell the House every day close to 300 Zimbabwean migrants cross the what steps the Government are taking to address this Limpopo River into South Africa seeking asylum, and issue in African countries that are members of the there are close to 3 million Zimbabweans in South Commonwealth? Africa as a result of the dire social and political situation in Zimbabwe. The high number of Zimbabwean Although there are many areas where Zimbabwe migrants has exerted great pressure on South Africa, needs to make swift improvements, it is important to which in turn has created social problems that have recognise the recent progress made by that nation. The resulted in violence and death. Constructive dialogue acquittal of Roy Bennett, the treasurer-general of the is needed between the Governments of South Africa Movement for Democratic Change, is a testament to and Zimbabwe to address this mass migration. developments in the Zimbabwean judicial system. The decision to remove the ban on independent newspapers The terms of the global political agreement include is a momentous step forward for Zimbabwe: the media requirements that Zimbabwe must produce a new have a right to exist without fear of intimidation. This constitution and has a duty to hold democratic elections development is all the more significant, as it was made by next year. It can be argued that this latter requirement by the new media licensing authority formed by the can be met only if international observers are allowed coalition Government. Following a High Court ruling, to carry out their duties in the absence of bribery or the South African Government has been asked to coercion. Although I would like Zimbabwe to gain release a report on the disputed 2002 Zimbabwe elections. readmission to the Commonwealth, this should be I welcome this decision, as there were widespread granted only on the proviso that the ruling coalition allegations of intimidation and irregularities. It is in can meet the terms of the global political agreement. the best interests of both nations to address the Commonwealth countries can be more actively involved discrepancies in the statement made by the international in conflict resolution in member states. We all appreciate observers and the then South African Government. that the Commonwealth is a unique organisation that Zimbabwe’s mineral wealth has the potential to values equality, and that the spirit of commandership make a significant contribution to the nation’s economic can be utilised to settle disputes. At present, the recovery. However, there have been many deaths and Zimbabwean healthcare system is underresourced and human rights abuses at Marange diamond field in underequipped. HIV and AIDS are endemic. Zimbabwe 777 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 778 has become one of the most affected countries in the deal of internal and external pressure, some of which world. Commentators have attributed this to a number was from South Africa, that we got a result capable of of reasons, including a lack of resources and community sustaining itself. awareness. The Zimbabwean Government have not The situation is changing, which we should welcome. shown adequate leadership in addressing prevention There are useful signs for the future. I am authorised and care in tackling the HIV epidemic. What plans do to say that Voluntary Service Overseas is intending to Her Majesty’s Government have to assist Zimbabwe introduce volunteers to Zimbabwe before the end of to combat this deadly affliction? The Zimbabwean this year, pending completion of registration in the people have suffered violence and degradation for far country as a non-profit organisation. It has already too long. It is the duty of regional partners and the signed a memorandum of understanding with the international community to ensure that these abuses Zimbabwean Government and, following completion and impunity for the perpetrators of these abhorrent of the process, will be able formally to announce crimes are brought to an end. placements with partners in Zimbabwe. This is very The battle against apartheid in South Africa and good news. We should commend VSO for that and the support of neighbouring states given to those wish it well. involved in the internal struggle for justice was paramount There are also good signs, as the noble Lord, Lord to achieving freedom against oppression. The people St John of Bletso, mentioned, for press freedom. Some of Zimbabwe deserve the same consideration in their papers have been newly published and some republished. quest to lead their lives free from intimidation and Although street vendors have been arrested for disturbing oppression. The social and political changes which the peace when selling newspapers, some of the show face this country can be resolved with combined efforts trials have been abandoned. That again is good news from a democratic Zimbabwean Government and other and we ought to be happy about it. countries, most notably with help from South Africa. On the other side of the coin is the fact that We have historic ties with Zimbabwe and we can play a intimidation still goes on. The trade union movement vital role in achieving the objectives. is under persistent attack for its outspoken criticism of what is happening. Trade union leaders, such as Gertrude 1.45 pm Hambira of the General Agricultural and Plantation Lord Hughes of Woodside: My Lords, I, too, Workers Union, have been forced to flee the country congratulate the noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, for their own safety. Also, a great many human rights on raising this important topic. I especially echo his violations carry on. tribute to our late colleagues, Lady Park of Monmouth In all the discussions about the future position of and Lord Blaker. We did not always see eye to eye on Zimbabwe, the Southern African Development our approach to Zimbabwe, but I never doubted for Community and the position of President Zuma in one second their commitment to a free and democratic particular are absolutely critical. SADC has appointed Zimbabwe. We certainly shall miss them. South Africa to mediate on its behalf, but I regret that there is no evidence that South Africa is approaching The document The Coalition: Our Programme for the matter with any great urgency. We have to see signs Government mentions Africa only twice. Page 22 states of progress. The former President of South Africa, that the Government, Thabo Mbeki, was roundly condemned, castigated “will support pro-development trade deals, including the proposed and derided for his so-called silent diplomacy. Of Pan-African Free Trade Area”, course we know that megaphone diplomacy does not and page 20 states: necessarily work, but I am concerned that there does “We support reform of the UN Security Council, including not seem to be any real sense of urgency about the permanent seats for Japan, India, Germany, Brazil and African situation. SADC is due to meet in August this year representation”. and, although Zimbabwe will be on the agenda, it will I can see that those are important objectives, but the not be the only topic. I fear that that may mean that document is entirely silent on the programme for the whole matter is sidelined. Some commentators are Africa, which I find extremely disappointing. calling for SADC to be convened for a special meeting Zimbabwe remains a pressing problem. In the debate to decide how to deal with Zimbabwe. Again, I have to on the Commonwealth introduced by the noble Lord, confess that I do not know whether that is necessarily Lord Sheikh, in December 2009, I urged for greater the right approach, but it shows that there is a definite urgency and stimulus to move forward the process of push to get something happening. securing the democratic future of Zimbabwe. I regret How are we going to deal with this? What are the to say that there are no signs of any push within the Government going to do? Are they going to adopt Commonwealth, which is where we should try to what might be called the “in phrase” of the coalition achieve that. and “consider matters afresh”? I do not quite know There will be elections in August next year. Is that what that means, but it sounds good. However, there optimistic? It is hoped that a new constitution will be has to be a lot more than that. We need to discuss the in being by then, which will have to be approved by a situation urgently with President Zuma and the referendum. I do not think that it will be ready in time. Government of South Africa. Has the Foreign Office There is even talk that the elections might go ahead made fresh approaches to President Zuma? Are there under the current constitutional arrangements. I believe to be official discussions or is the matter simply to be that that would be a disaster. We know what happened left to drift? the last time there were elections. There was widespread The Conservative part of the Con-Lib Dem coalition intimidation and fraud. It was only because of a great has a special responsibility towards Zimbabwe. Perhaps 779 Zimbabwe[LORDS] Zimbabwe 780

[LORD HUGHES OF WOODSIDE] if the present Government are to be true to their I could gently remind the Minister that it was a goals— Conservative Government who convened the Lancaster “it must put a huge effort into moving things forward”.—[Official House negotiations and concluded the agreement that Report, 10/12/09; col. 1181.] eventually led to the independence of Zimbabwe. That I commend this debate to the House. was fine, except that they also bequeathed to Zimbabwe the repressive Smith laws, which President Mugabe, 1.57 pm when he came to office, seized on with glee to oppress his own people. I hope that the Minister recognises the Lord Avebury: My Lords, we are all grateful to the historical duty that the Conservative part of the coalition noble Lord, Lord St John, for giving us an opportunity has towards the people of Zimbabwe. of hearing what the policies of the Government are on Zimbabwe. One point which the noble Lord, Lord A lot has happened since our debate in December Hughes, may have missed in the coalition programme last year. At the time, I spoke about the publication of is that: the report Land in Zimbabwe by the Africa All-Party “We want to strengthen the Commonwealth as a focus for Parliamentary Group, which has already been referred promoting democratic values and development”, to. The introduction is headed, “Past Mistakes and and that the aid budget will be used, Future Prospects”. The report makes four serious “to support … local democratic institutions, civil society groups, recommendations. The Government of the day, under the media and enterprise; and … efforts to tackle corruption”. the then Secretary of State for International Development, That sentence could have been written with Zimbabwe Douglas Alexander, gave their response on 3 February in mind and I hope that it gives some comfort to the 2010, which broadly welcomed the recommendations, noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, who wants the Commonwealth especially recommendation 4, which sets out plans for to be more involved in solving these problems. the future. Douglas Alexander also referred to the It remains to be shown what value could be added fact that the World Bank was carrying out a special by the Commonwealth per se to the work of the study of the land question in Zimbabwe and that the Friends, which is an organisation that includes richer former Government were looking forward to seeing Commonwealth states and SADC, the body of neighbours that report. Have the present Government looked at led by South Africa. Surely they must continue to the report of the all-party group and discussed what is exert the main political influence needed to accelerate happening with the World Bank? I understand that progress towards full implementation of the global they have not been in office for long, but I do not recall political agreement. With all its flaws, if the GPA was them giving the then new Government in 1997 the honoured by ZANU-PF, it would be an enormous benefit of the doubt, saying that there was plenty of improvement on its present arbitrary exercise of power, time to sort things out. I hope that, when the Minister with the active collaboration of the military. comes to reply, he will decide to show a real sense of As my right honourable friend the Member for urgency. Gordon said when introducing the report of the It has been said in some parts of Africa that we in International Development Committee in another place Britain do not understand the land question. I had recently, occasion to tell a high commissioner from southern “violence and intimidation, bad government and destruction of Africa that the Scots certainly understand the land the economy have forced millions of people to leave Zimbabwe”. question, because we have long memories and we We have heard about the 3 million who are refugees in remember the 18th and 19th-century Highland clearances, South Africa. He continued: when people were thrown off their land in order to “Many others have been displaced from their homes and are provide for sheep. It was certainly as brutal as, if not now refugees in their own country”. more brutal than, the farmers being thrown off their The Zimbabwe Peace Project recorded an increase to land in Zimbabwe, although I do not seek to excuse nearly 1,000 incidents of politically motivated violence what has happened in Zimbabwe by saying that. Our in April, many of them related to the constitution-making problem with the land has always been that the land is process, which had been stalled but should now move there to produce, and the greatest sin of the Mugabe ahead as the EU has provided $6 million towards the Government in regard to the land seizures is that they funding of local consultations throughout the country took fertile land and turned it into wasteland. Land is on the details. What guarantee do we have that the not of value in itself; it is of value in a productive people will be able to express their views freely and capacity to feed people. It is important and we recognise that ZANU-PF will not attempt to manipulate the it as such. outcome by threats and intimidation? Is there a timetable for the process, and will the referendum be monitored I conclude by repeating what I said in our earlier by the United Nations? If there are clear divisions of debate: opinion on contentious issues, will people be offered “If we are to keep the stimulus—which is absolutely necessary— choices in the referendum? The noble Lord, Lord going, then unilateral action”, St John, said that hardliners were already doing their by the British Government, will not be enough. I best to frustrate the process. I look forward to hearing continued: what the Minister says about the safeguards against that. “I understand perfectly well that … the UK … has no prescriptive right to dictate to Zimbabwe what its future should be … I believe The Select Committee says that two models are that multilateralism, within the Commonwealth especially, can being considered: the Kariba draft, which gives the move things forward ... If the Commonwealth is to be true to its President substantial executive powers and a more goals”— “people-driven” approach called for by civil society. 781 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 782

The committee wants DfID to provide more information judgment. The Supreme Court ordered that mining about the support that it is giving, jointly with other activities cease and that diamonds in the possession of donors, to the constitution-drafting process. I presume the state entity that annexed the mine in 2006 be that that would be via the multi-donor trust fund handed over to the Reserve Bank pending its judgment administered by the African Development Bank with on the claim. Has that happened and, if not, what support from the World Bank. The Friends’ meeting measures can be taken to enforce the Supreme Court’s last week pledged to increase this fund, but reiterated judgment? Meanwhile, the Kimberley process monitor, its concern over the, Abbey Chikane, paid a further visit to Zimbabwe at “lack of respect for the rule of law, protection of fundamental the end of May, and has reported his findings in quick freedoms and the slow pace of progress in improving governance”. time. He sees only what ZANU-PF and the army want What amount of additional funding is being made him to see, and one would never guess from his report available? Do specific benchmarks have to be satisfied that uncertified diamonds are flooding across into before the disbursements are approved? The referendum Mozambique. However, he confirms that enormous on the new constitution would be a possible trigger for diamond resources are at stake. releasing some of the purse-strings, particularly if the As an aside, I ask the noble Lord, Lord Howell, associated Bill of Rights addresses crimes committed whether the Government have taken note of the allegations by Mugabe such as the forcible eviction and internal by the arrested Zimbabwe diamond researcher, Farai displacement of 700,000 poor people in Operation Maguwu, who alleged on SW Radio Africa that he Murambatsvina—“clean out the trash”—five years was set up by the Kimberley process monitor. He has ago and the displacement of an additional 36,000 people now abandoned his post as director of the Centre for at the time of the election in 2008. The African Union Research and Development, which had been investigating called on member states at a meeting in Addis Ababa human rights abuses at the Chiadzwa diamond field. last week to ratify the AU convention on internally What steps can we take to investigate these allegations displaced people. It would be useful to know whether and, if possible, to get Mr Farai Maguwu restored to there has been any response from Harare. his important post so he can continue his investigations of the abuses in the diamond fields? As has been said, we miss Lord Blaker from these debates, remembering that, as his obituary in the The Finance Minister, Tendai Biti, acknowledged Times said, in a Reuters interview on 25 May that, while the dispute with ACR remained unresolved, it cast a shadow “it was his clear conviction that the causes of peace and democracy over diamond mining, the one immediate prospect of required a muscular approach”. rescuing Zimbabwe’s fragile economy from bankruptcy. That certainly applies to my late friend Lady Park as Yet he added that the legal process would be a long well. We miss both of them in these debates. If we one. It has been estimated that if Marange was regularised, soft-pedal on human rights—and if the donors fail to it could generate as much as $200 million a month in make aid to the Government, as opposed to aid to the revenue, so why do the Government not settle? The Prime Minister’s office and to NGOs, conditional on answer is that, as the Times reported, this is one of the rectifying the gross abuses of the Mugabe years—we last cash lifelines of Mugabe and his cohorts and they would jeopardise even the few advances already achieved. are determined to amass as big a fortune as possible They include, as has been mentioned, the licensing of before the boss dies. But that is all the more reason for free newspapers and the establishment of the Human donors to insist that the High Court’s ruling be upheld, Rights Commission, sworn in at the end of March. and that the ZANU-PF criminals who committed Let us remember also that Mugabe has failed to 200 murders, and beat and tortured locals, including honour benchmarks in the past, such as those in the children, to act as their slave labour in the Marange Cotonou agreement between the ACP Group of States fields, are brought to justice. and the European Union. So there needs to be a When the Secretary of State visited Zimbabwe last period of compliance, not just a signature, to test the September he said that, good faith of ZANU-PF. We certainly should not “once Zimbabwe is on a clear path to democracy and the rule of trust an Administration who are as susceptible to law, then a Conservative government will lead the Commonwealth influence of the military as are the current regime, and and the international community in a development programme to the talks between the MDC and ZANU-PF should be galvanise Zimbabwe’s private sector to rebuild and rehabilitate expanded to cover this problem. that beleaguered country”. He went on to promise that the UK would help The Friends urged Zimbabwe to, refurbish and redevelop Zimbabwe’s 7,000 schools, “adopt IMF policy recommendations and move towards establishment employing local plumbers, builders and electricians. of an IMF staff-monitored program as a step toward forgiveness We are not quite there yet, but the people of Zimbabwe or rescheduling of US $7.2 billion external debt”. can see that in the UK they have a staunch and Does this mean full budgetary transparency and therefore generous friend. It was so under the previous Government an end to shady ventures such as the exploitation of and the coalition is equally determined that, whatever the lucrative diamond fields at Marange, which were our own economic difficulties may be here at home, we operated originally by a UK-registered company, African shall never let them down. Consolidated Resources, until its lease was arbitrarily cancelled in 2006? They are now controlled by the military and high-ups in ZANU-PF, at enormous cost 2.08 pm to human rights in the region, as the noble Lord, Lord Lord Best: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble St John, said. ACR won a court case to recover friend Lord St John of Bletso for initiating and leading possession, but it has been unable to enforce the this debate. I declare my interest as a trustee of the 783 Zimbabwe[LORDS] Zimbabwe 784

[LORD BEST] In terms of encouragement for voluntary returns to Phoenix Fund for Zimbabwe, set up in 2007 by the late Zimbabwe, those who have received grants from the Lady Park of Monmouth, to whom reference has Phoenix Fund and signed an agreement to return already been made. The fund is now chaired by Shane when conditions are right may be well placed to make Lunga, with David Banks as our secretary. Lady Park fact-finding trips without undermining their refugee was a formidable champion for the well-being of status if they feel it necessary to return to the UK to Zimbabweans, and I know that she would not forgive see if it would be safe for others to return permanently me if I failed to contribute to this important debate. to Zimbabwe. They could visit different parts of the The Phoenix Fund for Zimbabwe exists to assist country where conditions differ and report back to the Zimbabwean refugees and asylum seekers in the UK Zimbabwean community here. to pursue courses of professional development, placements With tens of thousands of Zimbabweans now in and vocational training that will equip them to participate this country, many of them living unproductive lives, I in reviving the economy and institutions of Zimbabwe ask the Minister whether the retraining and reskilling when circumstances allow them to return home. The of returning migrants should not be a key element in trustees of the fund believe that the Zimbabwe of the the UK’s support for the economic recovery of Zimbabwe. future will depend on the skills of people like these to Could the UK give a lead to Zimbabwe’s neighbours rebuild that country in the years ahead. For those in devising, as part of our international aid programme, talented people who come here as asylum seekers and a training scheme for members of the Zimbabwean are not allowed to work, it must be better for them and diaspora who find themselves here in the UK and who for Zimbabwe for their skills to be enhanced and their wish to return to Zimbabwe? Such an initiative has the morale sustained than for them to sit on their hands in small but significant example of Lady Park’s Phoenix compulsory idleness. Fund for Zimbabwe, with its grants for courses and training to those who have signed a pledge to return This debate offers the opportunity to explore the when they can safely do so. value of equipping Zimbabweans here with the capacity to make a difference in their home country when the 2.13 pm time is right. The background to this question is of course the past decade of disastrous economic policies, Lord Luce: My Lords, my noble friend Lord St John political violence and social upheavals that have led to has tremendous experience of southern Africa, and some 3 million Zimbabweans fleeing abroad, out of a we should be grateful to him for taking the initiative in population of 12 million. Mostly this has affected launching this debate on Zimbabwe, taking on the neighbouring countries in the region, and as a consequence mantle, as he and so many noble Lords have already relations between Zimbabwe and its southern neighbours, said, of the late Lord Blaker and Lady Park, who were South Africa and Botswana, have deteriorated, as persistent in raising the problems of Zimbabwe over a noted by the International Development Committee long period. in another place. The International Crisis Group reported My own interest in Zimbabwe goes back to the to that committee that, 1970s when I was a shadow spokesman in the other place, and later as Minister for Africa when the Lancaster “instability in Zimbabwe is profoundly destabilizing to its neighbors. House talks took place and independence was eventually Zimbabweans fleeing economic hardship and political abuses agreed. That of course was exactly 30 years ago, but I have flooded across borders, overwhelming the social services and the good will of South Africa, Botswana, and other neighbors”. want to talk about the future not the past. It is worth stressing that independence was 30 years ago and that The flight of Zimbabweans into exile has also of the empire is long since over. Attempts to blame course made a considerable impact here in the UK. colonialism for the problems in Africa are long since Last year more Zimbabweans sought political asylum past. Equally, we in this country no longer have any in the UK than any other nationality. There were right to take a patronising attitude to our former 7,420 applications—more than double the number colonies. that applied for the next country on the list, Afghanistan. Of course, Zimbabwe—Rhodesia, as it was—was Naturally, the Home Office and its UK Borders Agency an anomaly in the sense that it was not part of the are keen to see more Zimbabweans returning home. conventional colonial arrangements. In 1923, the British There are some small projects assisting voluntary return Government decided that there should be internal self under the auspices of the International Organisation rule, which eventually led to the predominance of the for Migration, but they deal with relatively insignificant white population running that country, unlike in Kenya, numbers. where in the same year, it was declared that African The approach of the Foreign and Commonwealth interests should be paramount. Zimbabwe has paid a Office and the Department for International Development heavy price for that. Kissinger said in the 1970s that is more cautious in pointing to the ongoing problems Rhodesia had power without legitimacy and Britain and suggesting that it may still not be safe to go to had legitimacy without power. A heavy price has been Zimbabwe at this time. While it is often desirable for paid. many Zimbabwean migrants, whether in the Southern In today’s debate it is important to assess the progress African Development Community region or here in that has been made since the global peace agreement the UK, that they return and contribute their skills of 18 months ago and the formation of the National and expertise in their own country, the sad reality is Unity Government. My noble friend Lord St John that safety is a major concern for many, and with and other noble Lords have given their own assessment unemployment still at perhaps 90 per cent, opportunities of the progress that has been made. To summarise: the may not be readily available. economy is gradually improving, there is no longer 785 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 786 hyperinflation, the shops are fuller of goods and produce, that has now been set up in Zimbabwe, which has there is less political violence and there is some progress licensed a number of new publications and is designed on governance. But at the same time, there is a very to strengthen independence and the freedom of the long haul indeed. If we look at life expectancy, which media. We have heard of the Human Rights Commission is at half the level of this country—it is just over 40 in and, now, the Electoral Commission, which has been Zimbabwe and just under 80 in this country—we see established to ensure that future elections are well the dilemma and the tragedy that that country still managed and to minimise intimidation. Civil society is faces. involved in that work as well. My noble friend Lord St John was right to highlight I am delighted that the Commonwealth itself has the remaining problem of the hardliners in ZANU-PF, set up a network of national election management not just President Mugabe. The way that we—the bodies, co-ordinating the supervision and monitoring Commonwealth but above all the National Unity of elections in the Commonwealth. Then there is a Government—deal with this problem will be critical. move in hand to involve Zimbabwe in the Commonwealth If we are to learn from other countries such as the Scholarship and Fellowship Plan, another way of helping Soviet Union or Iraq we see that if we drive extremists that country to move forward. into a corner it makes the situation far more difficult. I am delighted that the Commonwealth Foundation We must learn that particular lesson. highlighted something raised by my noble friend Lord Best: the position of the diaspora. I do not think that I will make my remaining remarks on the issue of we should underestimate its importance. Since the the Commonwealth. For my part and I am sure that of Second World War, 20 million Africans have left Africa many others, I must say that I welcome the appointment to live mainly in the western world and Commonwealth of the noble Lord, Lord Howell, with his special countries, and have now acquired skills in all sorts of responsibility for the Commonwealth, and knowing of fields. The Commonwealth Foundation would like to his passion and commitment to the Commonwealth. help the diaspora to focus their attention on education, Quite apart from anything we can and should do on health and agriculture. There is an important role to the humanitarian side in our bilateral arrangements, be played here, and I am delighted that there is now a we ought to assess very carefully the role of the Council for Zimbabwe of the diaspora, based in New Commonwealth in terms of its ability to be constructive York but covering mainly Commonwealth countries. and to give encouragement to the people of Zimbabwe. Its job is to try to work with the 4 million Zimbabwean Although Zimbabwe is not at present a member of diaspora to see what contribution they can make to the Commonwealth, it has every opportunity, if it their country of origin. fulfils certain conditions, to rejoin it. I am glad that in From 1998 to 2000, 18,000 nurses, 100 doctors and the summit meeting of the Commonwealth Heads of hundreds and hundreds of academics left Zimbabwe, Government in November of last year, the global so there is much to be done. I am glad to say that the peace agreement on power-sharing was welcomed and Council of Zimbabwe is working vigorously with the summit looked forward to conditions being created Zimbabwe to help meet humanitarian, development for the return of Zimbabwe to the Commonwealth. and reconstruction needs. Zimbabwe now has a national The next Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting migration management and diaspora policy.The evidence is in autumn next year and that could be a target for shows that the diaspora want to help shape the policy the power-sharing Government to try to fulfil a sufficient and conditions in their country of origin. Everything number of those conditions to enable Zimbabwe to be should be done to encourage their work. It is a real invited to join. challenge for the Commonwealth, let alone for the I am a former chairman of an organisation National Unity Government in Zimbabwe, to provide called the Commonwealth Foundation, which is the people in Zimbabwe with encouragement and the non-government side—the people side—of the hope for the future and to encourage the Zimbabwean Commonwealth, dealing with professional organisations, Government to work for conditions that will enable cultural bodies and civil society. I am pleased that the them to return to the Commonwealth. foundation has devised a Commonwealth special In addition to anything that we can do bilaterally, programme for Zimbabwe. It goes back to two or Britain’s most helpful role today is to be an active and three years ago when the late Lord Blaker, the late equal partner with the Commonwealth and SADC in Lady Park, other noble Lords and I got together with helping the people of Zimbabwe. My noble friend the foundation and others to see what the Commonwealth Lord St John referred to Mbeki’s great cry that there could do. I am delighted that the director of the must be African solutions to African problems. We foundation, Mark Collins, has taken a lead on this. must give the people of Zimbabwe a chance to live a Last July he convened a round table in Johannesburg more prosperous and free life again. The potential is between Commonwealth organisations and civil society enormous, particularly in agriculture. They have suffered in Zimbabwe. The civil society people agreed that the enough and deserve a better and more stable future. Commonwealth should play a positive role, particularly on constitutional reform, the rule of law, democratic 2.25 pm governance and the role of the media. Lord Triesman: My Lords, I congratulate the noble Now we have a special programme that is part of a Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, on securing the debate, dialogue between the Commonwealth associations and which keeps Zimbabwe at the centre of our attention. civil society. It is a good demonstration of what the I, too, miss Baroness Park and Lord Blaker. I also Commonwealth can do in helping countries to reconstruct. congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, We have already heard mention of the media commission on his ministerial appointment. 787 Zimbabwe[LORDS] Zimbabwe 788

[LORD TRIESMAN] you cannot generate power, you cannot make things, On leaving the FCO in 2007, I thought it right to run hospitals or light homes. Water and sanitation are avoid debates on the geographical areas with which I still in a persistently dangerous state. Cholera killed had been most directly concerned. Ministerial life is 4,000 people in 2008 and early 2009. The regime puts hard enough without having your predecessors wandering health, agriculture and production at risk every day, over your turf. However, it left me with several unanswered just from the crisis in managing water properly, even if questions and thoughts which, had I expressed them there have been some developments in the supply of at the time, would have led me to stray still further fresh water. from government lines than I was already prone to do. The 88,000 kilometres of road have been neglected. Perhaps I can explore some of them today, precisely There are no materials, modern machines or basic because I believe that Zimbabwe was the country skills aside from those brought in by incoming Chinese where our impact was far less than it should have investors where those are directly connected to their been. I do not say this because I think Zimbabwe is a investment, and which are frequently removed when convenient metaphor for a wider African malaise. On the building work has been done. That building work the contrary, Africa is a continent, not a country; it is is infrequently carried out by African labour. Seventy culturally, linguistically and economically diverse. Indeed, per cent of the road network has decayed. Railways, in it is diverse in every way. It has great successes, often in what was the strategic hub of south central Africa, are spite of the hand dealt to it by colonialism. in much the same state as the roads. Goods and people However, Zimbabwe has not been one of Africa’s cannot be moved to markets with any ease, so few beacons. Its modern history was scarred by the appalling markets operate and economic conditions for regeneration and racist leadership of Ian Smith in Rhodesia, who—with are poor. apartheid South Africa—destabilised the entire region to ensure that there were no bases for anti-colonial The information and communications system has forces. All in all, the UK role was not what it could or declined and now ranks marginally above those of should have been. We turned a blind eye to sanctions- Chad and East Timor. Mining has declined with the busting, particularly oil bound for Rhodesia. We played flight of skills. Gold mining stopped in 2009 for lack a less than proper role in the 1971 talks, where our of recapitalisation although I acknowledge that it has proposals would have prevented democratic development now restarted and there is some progress. Diamonds in Zimbabwe for many decades and were rightly rejected and platinum offer hope if properly managed and not by all black and progressive Africans. This has made it used for improper outcomes, but those who wish to harder to get a sympathetic hearing in Africa. invest in that mining are concerned that they should make their investment against a background of greater None the less, Zimbabwe emerged as a productive political stability. land with a wealth of resources. The leader who emerged, Robert Mugabe, gradually set about the I doubt whether anything more needs to be said in imposition of a one-party state—always his goal—after this House about the decay of commercial and communal nominal observance of the Lancaster House agreement agriculture, which still remains in so poor a state. for seven years. Then, freed from any obligation, he Manufacturing has declined by 10 per cent a year suppressed the opposition, killed many of them, and since 2000. Today, it barely exists; nor do financial instituted terror in Matabeleland. And so he has continued, services or a credible central bank. Tourism had potential election after election; win them or lose them, he yet the World Economic Forum recently ranked Zimbabwe remains essentially the sole power in every meaningful 121 of 133 travel destinations. Few tourists will venture sense. Perhaps the noble Lord, Lord St John, is too to a country in which there has been so much brutality generous in thinking that the crisis only started in and which simply leaves people enfeebled by HIV and 1997, and perhaps too optimistic in general. I mean no AIDS on Harare’s municipal rubbish dump. discourtesy in expressing the point. ZANU-PF’s leaders We in this House have all expressed our outrage remain to this day a watchword for corruption and and have urged, and achieved, limited EU sanctions violence among many Africans. I will not go through on some individuals. We have opposed relaxation of the soaring inflation and plunging life expectancy; we IMF rules on debt and have rightly supplied extensive are all familiar with the facts. More than 3 million food aid to the innocent victims of the Mugabe regime. refugees were forced to cross the Limpopo in search of We have placed cautious hope in Morgan Tsvangirai food. Whatever South Africa’s non-intervention was and the MDC, who have had every conceivable difficulty intended to achieve, one consequence was a tsunami placed in their way in trying to form some sort of of desperation, now costing South Africa $3 billion a government who can move forward, despite the fact year. that they won the previous general election. However, Where is the Zimbabwean economy now? Without our response was far too limited. Our expectation of the excellent resources of the FCO, I can only estimate political intervention by the African Union and SADC from 2009 data. I recognise that things have changed was unrealistic. The AU, with few staff and limited since the exchange mechanism changed. I can see that finance, has been expected to shoulder massive tasks there is promise; I understand the point. However, right across Africa from Darfur to Mogadishu to the there are significant doubts about what has fundamentally DRC. Neither the AU nor SADC had the political will changed. Today, the power sector is in a parlous and on all occasions, and most certainly did not have the deteriorating state. Demand exceeds supply by two capacity, to fulfil such a remit, even had it wanted to. and a half times. Nothing has been done to infrastructure Both would have had to ignore the most powerful in more than 20 years. Power lines are ancient and regional leaders. It is obviously right—I subscribe 5,000 kilometres of power cable have been stolen. If completely to this view—to want to build the political 789 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 790 authority of multinational institutions in Africa, but exiled in London with the ANC. My understanding of it was wrong to pretend that such authority was Mugabe’s probable trajectory came from Oliver Tambo already there. and Govan Mbeki, not from any apologist for Ian I was told time and again by exceptional African Smith. I do not accept that those serving the previous administrators that while it was vital for Africans to Government or indeed today’s new generation in take ownership of African problems, they could not government should allow themselves to be characterised make bricks without straw. I ask with suitable by the politics of 40 years ago. circumspection, as I am self-critical in this regard, whether the Government have a view of what can be 2.37 pm achieved by greater engagement with the AU and SADC, and especially with South Africa? It would Lord Chidgey: My Lords, I, too, congratulate the surely be negligent if we did not take on that task. noble Lord, Lord St John, on securing this debate so Hardliners are certainly seeking to frustrate the process early in this new Parliament and so soon after the and they may very well succeed as they have succeeded formation of the new coalition Administration. As more often than they have failed. Optimism is okay, always in this Chamber, we have benefited from a but if things go badly what should we do next? I am broad range of knowledge and opinions on the subject. often told that we should be cautious because we do I listened intently to the somewhat hard-edged not want to take steps which gratuitously endanger contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, excellent FCO and local staff in Harare. That is a which was very solid, and compared it with the speech genuine concern and I share it. However, is the Minister of the noble Lord, Lord Luce, and his optimism satisfied that they are safe and can provide help for the regarding the role of the Commonwealth. I particularly domiciled retired British population in Zimbabwe who enjoyed his contribution, given that I am the chair of are themselves at risk? The consequence of our caution the international board of the Commonwealth Policy was that we sought sanctions, and sanctioned ZANU’s Studies Unit. I endorse his views in that regard. leaders, only if we were confident of EU backing, This is a valuable opportunity for Members of this which we did not always have. I could not agree with House to raise some very pressing concerns about that approach because I thought that we should push developments that have taken place recently in far deeper through the ranks of criminality in the Zimbabwe—and, unfortunately, concerns in some areas regime. Would the Government be prepared to act about the apparent lack of developments. This is also unilaterally if necessary, because that may be the a very useful opportunity for us to hear from our new consequence of what I am saying? coalition Administration about the approach that they Perhaps I may share the view that it would be will adopt alongside our partners in the region and helpful to make sure that we are as fully engaged with among donor nations on finding ways to assist the South Africa and its new leader as we can be. I wonder people of Zimbabwe in their struggle for democracy if this is not the moment to try again to achieve a more justice, human rights and economic progress. formal plan for long-standing political and economic Before I became a Member of this House, when I change in Zimbabwe, building on what might be the was in the other place, I was a member of the Foreign seeds of its beginnings. The new President of South Affairs Select Committee, and we spent a considerable Africa, Jacob Zuma, as my noble friend Lord Hughes amount of time on a series of detailed inquiries on said, has considerable authority. He has committed Zimbabwe. More recently, as vice-chair of the Africa himself to poverty reduction and he may be unwilling All-Party Parliamentary Group, I was engaged in the to bear the unnecessary costs of a difficult northern inquiry mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Hughes, neighbour. I know from his state visit that he is a into land in Zimbabwe. It concluded among other tough pragmatist and that he is the key leader in matters that the UK had a particular obligation to southern Africa. He may be willing to reopen the kind Zimbabwe and that once there was political stability, of holistic approach that Kofi Annan so often and so Britain should seek to re-engage with the Zimbabwean eloquently advocated. He has surely reflected on the Government on the issue of land reform, but with an decades of so-called quiet diplomacy from South Africa appropriate degree of caution. which were wholly ineffective. The need now is for a Our then Government conceded, as the report noted, comprehensive approach to rehabilitation on the basis that one of the major challenges facing Zimbabwe in of the sort of plan that Kofi Annan outlined. A new the coming years will be how to devise a land reform opportunity would require careful preparation, but process that takes account of the lessons from the does the Minister, on behalf of the Government, see past, but avoids polarisation on historical rights and any advantage in assessing this new window of wrongs. I appreciate that there have been steps towards opportunity? I hope that as he does, he will not feel it real progress and that the political landscape has necessary to give people a “get out of jail free” pass, changed. However, I am struck by how many of the whatever kinds of crimes they have committed. concerns that we grappled with six or seven years ago, Finally, I do not accept the point that has often underlined in our more recent inquiry, remain the been made that if we say anything about President same today. Mugabe it will make it easier for him to denounce us When President Zuma of South Africa came into among other African leaders. Many people in this office, he appointed an impressive and very able team House will have reasons for their criticism. I know to facilitate the continuing negotiations around full mine. My political generation grew up as anti-colonialist, implementation of the global political agreement. The not as covert colonialists. My politics were formed in GPA, which was signed in November 2008, led to the the 1960s, much by the close friends who were then formation of a Government of national unity, or 791 Zimbabwe[LORDS] Zimbabwe 792

[LORD CHIDGEY] In a reflection of the frustration felt among grassroots GNU, in February 2009. Earlier this year when President Zimbabweans, the National Council of the MDC met Zuma paid his state visit to this country, it was clear on 16 May and called for SADC immediately to that he and the Ministers and officials accompanying convene a summit to resolve the outstanding issues, as him had the crisis in Zimbabwe and the impasse over well as to discuss the road map to an election and the GPA high up on their agenda. It was encouraging guarantees of the legitimacy of this election. Similarly, to hear President Zuma speak in detail about the a statement following a recent meeting of the Zimbabwe negotiations and also that the Minister for International Council of Churches, the ZCC, and the Zimbabwe Relations and Co-operation found time to come for an Christian Alliance, the ZCA, expressed grave concern extensive dialogue on the issue with members of the that, two years on from signing the GPA, it is still not Zimbabwe All-Party Parliamentary Group. fully implemented. Very shortly after his return to South Africa, President Among the urgent concerns that the churches say Zuma travelled to Harare and spent two and a half need to be addressed are deepening and widening days on an intense round of meetings with political poverty, the inaccessibility of food to the majority of leaders and other figures in Zimbabwe. Together with Zimbabweans due to lack of income, the high his negotiating team, he was appointed to facilitate unemployment rate of more than 90 per cent, which negotiations between the three political formations has been referred to in previous contributions, the represented in the Zimbabwe Parliament—that is, the failure to create new jobs and the seven-month delay MDC faction led by Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai, in the constitution-making process. the MDC faction led by Deputy Prime Minister Arthur In a communiqué the ZCC and the ZCA calls upon Mutambara, and the ZANU-PF, led by President SADC heads of state summit to be held in Namibia in Robert Mugabe. What is frustrating is that, despite August 2010 to prioritise addressing clear timetables and deadlines being set, weeks, and “these concerns from the people of Zimbabwe”. now months, have slipped by with little progress. I The communiqué also called on the Government to hope that the Minister will tell us what soundings have respect people’s natural rights, the security and integrity been taken within the region about how the process of of persons and to dismantle all structures that perpetuate implementation might be expedited. political violence. The church leaders urged the It is important to bear in mind that economic Government to reform the country’s security sector restructuring, investment in industry and many other as a, initiatives vital to the welfare of the people of Zimbabwe “critical component of creating a peaceful transition”, are to a large degree in suspense while there is uncertainty and to create the mechanisms necessary to enable around political progress. It seems to me that there independent commissions to function effectively and needs to be a far greater sense of urgency over these ensure that free and fair elections are conducted by the matters within the region. Although there will be end of 2011. protestations to the contrary, this is a legitimate matter The news this week is not encouraging. On Tuesday of concern to this House and to the people of this the MDC issued an alert accusing ZANU-PF of country. The bill for humanitarian aid and, in due unleashing a targeted crackdown on MDC officials course, the huge amount of aid needed to rebuild the and supporters across the country. This comes just as infrastructure and economy of Zimbabwe will be drawn the national outreach consultation on a new constitution very substantially from DfID—that is, from UK taxpayers. is about to begin on Tuesday of next week. In the past Perhaps the Minister will be able to tell us what week scores of MDC officials and supporters have assistance we are able to offer directly, and through the been arrested on spurious charges such as undermining EU and the Commonwealth, to strengthen the Parliament the President. The alert says that there is an upsurge in in Zimbabwe. persecution, intimidation and arbitrary arrests, especially in the volatile provinces of Mashonaland East, West Both Houses of the Zimbabwe Parliament adjourned and Central. in March for three months to allow MPs and Senators to participate in the outreach consultation on a new The MDC sees this as an attempt by ZANU-PF to constitution. However, the outreach exercise failed to cow the population and recreate the violent environment start on time and, when it does eventually start, it is that caused Morgan Tsvangirai to withdraw from the expected to take more than three months rather than presidential run-off in June 2008. In this context it is the two months that had originally been planned. This important to reflect on concerns expressed a week ago means that valuable parliamentary time is being lost at the Oslo meeting of major donors and international when it could be used to introduce important legislation financial institutions known as the Friends of Zimbabwe. and a repeal of repressive measures. These delays This is only the latest in a series of meetings that this undermine confidence in the whole process of reform, donor group has convened and I know that the UK they affect the confidence of donors and investors, has played a key role throughout. The communiqué and they deter Zimbabweans in the diaspora from issued after the Oslo meeting underlines the fact that returning home. Meetings between President Mugabe, several long-standing concerns remain, including a Prime Minister Tsvangirai and Deputy Prime Minister continuing lack of respect for the rule of law or Mutambara have been delayed time and again. This in protection of fundamental freedoms and the slow turn means that the vital progress report on the pace of progress in improving governance. implementation of the global political agreement that It urges the parties to accelerate the implementation President Zuma is due to make to SADC has also of their outstanding commitments under the GPA been very seriously delayed. and stresses that the lack of progress hampers full 793 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 794 re-engagement with Zimbabwe by the international is increasing. However, that analysis bears close community. Donors also stressed the concern shared examination, especially in relation to the more vulnerable with the private sector, both international and domestic, and low-income groups. The noble Lord, Lord Triesman, about the negative consequences of the recently published mentioned the decay in services and communications. regulations on indigenisation for the already fragile The country profile report also contrasts with reports investment climate. That point was made by the noble from human rights organisations and the media that Lord, Lord St John of Bletso. The communiqué reaffirms white farmers and MDC activists are still being targeted support for genuine empowerment and says that the and, in many cases, victimised. One activist in return of millions of skilled Zimbabweans to their Mashonaland had his house burnt down only a week homeland is best achieved by respect for the rule of ago. A local chairman in Harare was abducted while a law and the creation of an enterprise-friendly environment. rally that he was to address was disrupted. As the That includes respect for bilateral investment protection noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, said, most of those attacks and promotion agreements. It urges Zimbabwe to are coming from ZANU-PF, but sometimes the police pursue the extraction of its natural resource in a or even the army are directly involved. manner that benefits its citizens. I hope that in this The court’s release of Roy Bennett last month was context the Minister will tell us what options are open the latest example of the political cat and mouse game. to the UK and other donor nations to hold the He is a senior member of Prime Minister Morgan Government of Zimbabwe to their obligations under Tsvangirai’s MDC and he was due to become Deputy the Kimberley process certification scheme for rough Minister for Agriculture when he was arrested in diamonds, including their obligation to implement the February 2009. The Government, knowing that such joint work plan agreed to in November 2009. an appointment would wreck their pretence of power- The concerns expressed in Oslo echo to a large sharing, will appeal against the decision, but their extent the anxieties expressed in March by the manipulation of the courts makes a farce of the International Development Committee of the House judicial process. of Commons in its report on DfID assistance to Zimbabwe. Paragraph 61 of the IDC report notes that Meanwhile, white farmers are being constantly member states of the Southern African Development harassed. Although some are returning, many are Community—SADC—are the guarantors of the global being arrested and detained on spurious charges or political agreement—GPA. The committee recommends are still being evicted in favour of pseudo-farmers and that the Government should urge SADC collectively, ZANU-PF party squatters. Charles Taffs, the Commercial and South Africa in particular, to continue to work Farmers’ Union vice-president, said last week that with the Government of national unity towards full eviction of white farmers had intensified over the past implementation of the GPA. Finally, it seems to me 10 days, further threatening Zimbabwe’s fragile food that this is something that the SADC heads of state security. He said that Zimbabwe was producing less might be encouraged to address in the forthcoming than 10,000 tonnes of wheat, which is one-third of summit in Namibia. I hope that the Minister will national requirements, because of the lack of security, reassure us that in our diplomatic dialogue with SADC farm evictions and electricity blackouts on the farms. member nations, and with South Africa in particular, Farm workers are the subject of a telling recent these concerns will be fully expressed. survey by the General Agricultural and Plantation Workers Union of Zimbabwe. It may not be representative, 2.49 pm but it provides a glimpse of the suffering of those The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, I congratulate my workers, showing the true savagery and oppression of noble friend and I pay tribute to the work of two the Mugabe regime. Of the sample surveyed, 24 per experienced parliamentarians who did so much for cent of farm workers had been held hostage and three our understanding—Lady Park and Lord Blaker. Not in 10 had been abducted. Twenty-five per cent had only do we miss them personally but their absence seen their pets maimed or killed. In 29 per cent of means that we will have to redouble our efforts to keep cases, children were forced to watch beatings and a this issue high in the public mind. In that context, I similar percentage of adults were required to intimidate welcome back the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, whose their colleagues. Forty-four per cent had been assaulted. hard-hitting approach is very much needed on these More than half had received death threats. Two-thirds occasions. All eyes are on South Africa and the World were severely ill treated or psychologically tortured Cup, and it is tragic that, because of an incompetent and a similar proportion forced to join ZANU-PF. On dictatorship dressed up as a power-sharing arrangement, one farm alone, farm workers reported a fractured tourists who should be benefiting Zimbabwe’s economy skull, broken feet, abductions, one man being thrown are largely avoiding the country. However, I know that into a fire, bad bruising from rifle butts from police, the more determined game parks and resorts are doing imprisonment and torture. Some had been in hiding. their best to attract attention. Some had had their houses looted and others had The Foreign Office’s country profile for Zimbabwe watched their houses burn down. Those facts, which reports, come from reliable sources, speak for themselves. More than l million farm workers, estimated to be more than “a reduction in the level of political violence”, half the population on commercial farms, have been following the formation of the cross-party Government displaced over the years by this violence. in 2009. There is a widespread perception that the return to the US dollar and an upturn in the economy While we watch football games and applaud the have also helped to create improvement in household sporting achievements of many African states, people incomes. My noble friend mentioned investment, which are suffering silently in Zimbabwe out of sight of the 795 Zimbabwe[LORDS] Zimbabwe 796

[THE EARL OF SANDWICH] publicised this week. The MDC has called for media. Many are destitute, many live in poor housing Mr Maguwu’s immediate release. Will the Government in Harare and many more have fled to South Africa. endorse that call and repeat their assurance that they In Harare, hundreds of thousands are still displaced will not support the export of diamonds from Zimbabwe following the senseless mass evictions five years ago. until they are satisfied that there is no evidence of Amnesty recently appealed on their behalf for improved human rights abuse in the mines? conditions and the UN is helping a limited number Finally, knowing that the Department for International with legal advice and emergency aid. Development has taken a close interest in constitutional The UK is a key donor to the World Food Programme, issues and has considerable expertise in this field, and besides directly assisting British humanitarian agencies given the possibility of imminent, and even snap, such as Oxfam and Save the Children, but could we be elections immediately after the World Cup, how will doing more? There are more than 3 million refugees the UK Government step up their support, alongside and migrants in South Africa, which has benefited the European Union, for the democratic process that from Zimbabwean labourers working on construction is already under way under the GPA and how will they sites during the run-up to the World Cup, but the help to bring confidence to a potentially healthy and temporary camps are phasing out and there are fears constructive civil society? that many people will be forcibly returned. There is always a risk of xenophobic violence. We have already 3pm seen examples of it. The UN has drawn up a programme to resettle up Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I, to 60,000 returnees this year and has opened a new too, thank the noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, for office in Bulawayo. Does the Foreign and Commonwealth introducing this debate and for doing it so very well. It Office share these anxieties and have they been expressed was a real tour de force. Like him and so many noble in Pretoria? I support what my noble friend Lord Best Lords who have spoken today, I regret the sad loss of said about the situation of refugees in the United Lady Park and Lord Blaker, who made such well Kingdom, about which I hope we will have time for a informed contributions to our debates on Zimbabwe debate. in the past. Zimbabwe has been of particular concern, especially Having worked for non-governmental organisations, in your Lordships’ House, for many years. The I have a particular concern that NGOs in Zimbabwe, opportunity to discuss the current situation there and including church groups and even student bodies, are how it may develop is therefore very welcome, because, being targeted as though they were militant opposition as we have heard from so many who have contributed groups. Funds belonging to NGOs that were frozen by to the debate, there are some signs that change is the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe in 2008 have still not under way. That creates an opportunity for a better been released and several NGOs report problems in future for the people of Zimbabwe, and indeed for the obtaining employment permits. Is our embassy speaking British relationship with Zimbabwe. There are obvious up for local NGOs as well as for international NGOs? political changes in Zimbabwe with the formation of The UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian the Government of National Unity, as well as changes Affairs, John Holmes, warned recently that in countries in the leadership of Zimbabwe’s most influential such as Zimbabwe funding shortfalls are, neighbour, South Africa. In the United Kingdom’s “jeopardizing the ability of humanitarian organizations”, relationship with Zimbabwe, too, we must consider to operate. the implications of the change of government in this country. New Governments anywhere can, if they are Human rights NGOs are also being squeezed if sufficiently imaginative, create real opportunities for they dare to expose corruption. I have a current example, change if the circumstances merit it, and the British which has been mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord coalition now has the challenge of how it will respond Avebury, and other noble Lords in the context of to some of the changes that we have been discussing Marange diamonds. Last week, Zimbabwean police and begin to make a real step change in the way in arrested the head of the Marange-based Centre for which Zimbabwe relates to the United Kingdom. Research and Development, Farai Maguwu. The centre has regularly provided information about ongoing In all the years that I have been part of the debates human rights abuse to the Kimberley process, which on Zimbabwe in this House, concern has centred on monitors companies in order to prevent trade in blood four main destructive and interrelated crises. First, diamonds. Mr Maguwu is, in effect, being accused of there has been the economic crisis. Secondly, there has exposing the close relationship with the Government been political deterioration in the country and in its of Mr Abbey Chikane, the Kimberley process monitor. relationships with many countries overseas. Thirdly, South African firms such as Mbada and Canadile, there has been the HIV/AIDS crisis. Finally, there has which have little mining experience, are being used as been the humanitarian crisis, which has been the inevitable fronts by the Mugabe Government, but they cannot consequence of the first three crises. officially sell the diamonds until Zimbabwe meets the As we have heard today so graphically from the terms of the Kimberley process. Mr Chikane is widely noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, for years Zimbabwe’s expected to give the green light before the end of this economic and social indicators painted a really alarming month. Diamonds are reaching Antwerp via Mozambique picture. Over half the country required emergency even now, so the certification scheme, which is highly food aid and other humanitarian aid simply to survive. regarded in Africa, is in danger of being discredited. The contrast with the former years of plenty as the This story is well documented and is being widely breadbasket of Africa was indeed stark. The United 797 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 798

States aid department calculated that over that period I am sure we can all express pleasure that Zimbabwe’s more than a third of the adult population of Zimbabwe eligibility to use the resources of the IMF’s general was HIV positive, and that more than 10,000 people resource account have been restored, which is good were dying every month from AIDS. Meanwhile, the news and significant. What does the Minister think GDP was in an unstoppable downward spiral, and the practical impact of the restoration of such eligibility inflation was way out of control. Official figures for will be? It is clear that the economic policies have unemployment were in excess of 60 per cent, and improved significantly, but what assessment have the shortages in medicines and fuel as well as in food were British Government made about the way in which the evident everywhere. improvements are sustainable or whether the recovery Most people with marketable skills left the country is too fragile to survive without further important as soon as they could in the early years of this century. policy changes in the economic outlook in Zimbabwe? As the noble Lord, Lord Best, said, there were teachers, I turn to what I described as the political crisis. The health workers and many with professional skills who continuation of the Government of National Unity is simply moved away and did not return. The noble the bedrock of providing the stability necessary for Lord, Lord Luce, emphasised the importance of the any continued economic improvement. The IMF was diaspora and asked how they might now be encouraged pleased that during its visit in March its meetings with to return to Zimbabwe. This is a scarred and miserable Prime Minister Tsvangirai and other Ministers were story with which we are all only too familiar. The matched by access to representatives from the diplomatic analysis of why this happened has varied. From and business communities, and, very significantly, in Mr Mugabe’s point of view, the blame is placed squarely its meetings with civil society organisations as well as on Britain’s shoulders as the former colonial power, trade unions. The IMF noted the improved respect—its although Zimbabwe never had a colonial civil service; own words—for property rights and for the strengthening it had its own internal service. Meanwhile from the of labour markets. Today we have heard about the point of view of many commentators outside the welcome licensing of the newspaper industry, which is country, the blame lies with Zanu-PF for running a another significant move. regime that totally failed its own people in terms of The points made by the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, economic competence, political inclusion and social about the recent acquittal of one of Prime Minister cohesion. Others, notably South Africa, have been for Tsvangirai’s allies, the former white farmer, Roy Bennett, many years very ambivalent. They have been unable to also need to be noted. I think that we all hope that this criticise the self-evident shortcomings of Mr Mugabe’s acquittal will ease some of the self-evident tensions in Government and have impeded some of the efforts of the Government in Zimbabwe. On the charges of the international community to deal with human rights terrorism against him, Mr Bennett said that, abuses and disease control, not only in terms of HIV/ AIDS but also, latterly, in terms of the cholera outbreaks. “the judgment gives hope that we are returning to justice and the rule of law”. As we have heard from many noble Lords in this debate, there have been real changes in the economy. I Can the Minister give us the British Government’s am sure that all of us welcome the fact that at long last assessment of the current state of stability in the there is real improvement in what the IMF has to say coalition; that is to say, whether Mr Bennett’s judgment about the Zimbabwean economy. In its announcement that this was a significant move in consolidating the on 26 May, it recorded that for the first time in more coalition is one with which they can agree? Also, is he than a decade there has been economic growth. The able to tell us whether Mr Bennett has now been gross domestic product rose by 4 per cent last year, installed as the Deputy Minister for Agriculture, as which was the first expansion for 11 years. At the same was originally mooted? time, prices rose by 6.5 per cent. In previous years, as Can the Minister comment on the issue raised by we have often remarked in this House, inflation was the noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, regarding the measured in millions of per cent and the economy new law requiring all companies owned by foreigners regularly shrunk year on year by 5 per cent to 10 per cent. and racial minorities to cede 51 per cent of their The IMF attributed the improvements to strong shares to indigenous people? There seems to be genuine taxation policy and strong administrative measures confusion on this point. Some Zimbabwean Cabinet following implementation of its own advice. It went Ministers have said that the law is still firmly in place, on to stress the importance of further strengthening of but of course the Prime Minister’s own spokesman financial management with the World Bank’s assistance has given a very different point of view, saying that the and noted that, sadly, many social programmes in whole of that law is now under revision. Zimbabwe are still grossly underfunded and in danger I turn to the AIDS/HIV epidemic, a matter that of failing completely. I agree with my noble friend was not raised by many noble Lords during the Lord Triesman that years of neglect cannot be righted course of the debate, but which nonetheless plays an without a huge effort within Zimbabwe and from its important part in achieving stability in Zimbabwe. Is friends. the Minister able to give us up to date figures for What is the British Government’s assessment of the mortality rates? The figures were very high a few IMF report? Is the UK coalition now able, or willing, years ago and I wonder how they have changed, or to give bilateral advice to the Zimbabwean Government indeed if they have changed at all. Further, is he able on the future strengthening of such things as their to tell us what the United Kingdom is currently doing manufacturing and service industries, and very particularly in terms of providing aid to combat AIDS and HIV in on the budgetary messages that need to be put in place Zimbabwe? Clearly we are not alone in this: Japan, in the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. Sweden and the Netherlands have also made significant 799 Zimbabwe[LORDS] Zimbabwe 800

[BARONESS SYMONS OF VERNHAM DEAN] in any other forum, in this country or elsewhere, and contributions, but in recent years there has been some certainly not in any other legislature. An enormous reluctance on the part of other Governments to deal range of expert comments and questions have been with the issue. raised. It would be physically impossible for me to The humanitarian climate seems to have improved answer every single one in the 20 minutes allotted but I at least in some measure, although I was concerned by shall try answer a great many of them. Most of them it the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, regarding would be possible to answer, but not in 20 minutes. I the points made by the Friends of Zimbabwe and shall simply do my best. about what the Zimbabwean churches have had to say. I, too, begin by thanking the noble Lord, Lord I am sure that many of us were pleased to see the ban St John of Bletso, for the opportunity to have this on all diamond exports until senior politicians accused excellent debate. Secondly, I echo what other noble of human rights abuses are cleared of any wrongdoing. Lords have said about our sadly departed friends: my In its assessment made on 17 May this year, the IMF very good friend Lord Blaker and the wonderful lady, said that the humanitarian situation had improved Lady Daphne Park, who made huge contributions with schools and hospitals opening, better food security and played huge parts in our discussions of Zimbabwe and a declining rate of cholera around the country. over the years. I thank also the opposition spokesman, But the IMF continued to emphasise the importance the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, and the former of the enforcement of property rights and the maintenance opposition spokesman, the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, of the rule of law. As the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, with whom I have debated over the years. Indeed, I pointed out, the abuse of gay people is absolutely began to feel that this was a kind of “This is your unacceptable and needs to be addressed urgently. Life” debate as comments from the past arose. We The fact is that these are all bedrock issues. Democracy have been looking at these matters together for almost without the rule of law tends to become the licensed a decade and I hope that our joint contribution will tyranny of the majority over the minority, and human carry forward understanding and create an effective rights are the hallmark of any decent and civilised policy on these matters in the future. government. As the noble Lord, Lord St John, remarked, I asked officials in my department, the Foreign and the drawing up of the new constitution will be a key Commonwealth Office—as I believe should be the element, but as many noble Lords, including the noble case when new government Ministers arrive—just why, Lord, Lord Avebury, said, many questions are being looking forward, there is so much concern and interest— raised in relation to whether the constitution will and what are the interests of our nation—in the indeed get a fair hearing and whether in the end there developments in Zimbabwe? Whatever the links of the will be a fair vote on it. past—of which we must be aware—I asked the crude The Minister has a terrific record on his support of question: “Where do we go from here? What is the the Commonwealth, and as the noble Lord, Lord importance for our nation of what is happening in Luce, said, in the past he has been a persuasive supporter Zimbabwe?”. Their answer was very clear: it is directly of it. Given that, is he able to say anything about how in our national interests that this major African country he sees the future role of the Commonwealth in relation of wonderful potential should become again within to Zimbabwe? In short, can he tell us how the UK the region a zone of law, justice, peace and democracy, Government intend to respond to all these changes? and of the economic prosperity which goes with those As my noble friend Lord Hughes of Woodside pointed things and which tends to disappear if they are absent. out, the coalition document supports better trade with When I say “democracy”, I mean the word in the Africa. Is the Minister able to tell us in what ways this deepest, broadest and wisest sense, not in the superficial might be done? Would it be through, for example, help way in which it is sometimes interpreted around the with small businesses and for entrepreneurship, and world, including, I am sad to say, even within this programmes of assistance such as those that were country. provided by British Executive Services Overseas? In The Government intend to do everything they can particular, do the Government have any practical ideas to support the aspirations of the Zimbabwean people for ways in which to help Zimbabweans in this country for a prosperous and stable Zimbabwe. Their objective return to their homeland in the way suggested by the and ours is to overcome the years of misrule and bring noble Lord, Lord Luce? back Zimbabwe once more to its place as a beacon of We have had a wide-ranging debate. The question I hope for Africa’s future and as a land of plenty as it leave with the Minister is whether he believes in the once was. picture that has been painted by the IMF, taking into account all the difficulties raised by noble Lords in In my allotted time, I want first to deal with the terms of human rights? Does he believe that the future precise questions that noble Lords have raised with of Zimbabwe is now set on the right course and that it great insight and effectiveness—although I shall not has a sustainable and secure future planned ahead for be able to deal with them all—and then to make some its people? broader comments which, in turn, will cover some of the issues that noble Lords have raised. The noble Lord who introduced the debate made 3.15 pm an interesting speech. He described himself as an The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth optimist. We all want to be optimistic about the future Office (Lord Howell of Guildford): My Lords, this has but it is very hard in some cases. There is much wrong been a debate rich in expertise and knowledge of the and much to fear and worry about still in Zimbabwe, Zimbabwean situation, the like of which is not replicated but that is the right stance. He asked about the 801 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 802

International Criminal Court and whether it could, as The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, mentioned also the it were, catch Mr Mugabe. I am advised that as Zimbabwe Commonwealth, a matter, as other noble Lords have is not a signatory to the Rome statute—that is the ICC been kind enough to observe, which is dear to my statute—he can be referred to the ICC only by Security heart. Zimbabwe was a member of the Commonwealth; Council resolution. I think that that is the right procedure, a time will come when the Commonwealth network, but if he were so referred, we would be in no position with its skills, its focus, its values and its practical help, to protect Mr Mugabe from any of the consequences. will be able to play a vital part in the rebuilding of That should be clear and on the record. Zimbabwe. Of that, I am convinced. When that time The noble Lord spoke equally effectively about the comes, I cannot say at the moment, because I cannot rights of women in Zimbabwe, a matter to which we see, as noble Lords cannot, exactly how matters will should return again and again as we press for a better develop. But I am quite sure that the Commonwealth’s future for that country. The noble Lord had many role in the future piecing together of Zimbabwe will be other comments to make as well, which I shall cover in vital and leading. my general remarks. The noble Lord, Lord Best, raised the interesting My noble friend Lord Sheikh made a very fine question of reskilling Zimbabweans in the Zimbabwean speech about human rights in Africa, which should diaspora. We share the noble Lord’s wish to see always be to the forefront of our thinking. Many of Zimbabweans able to return home to contribute to the these areas are, as many noble Lords said, African rebuilding of their country when the time is right. The matters for African solutions and they demand African noble Lord referred to the funds available to Zimbabweans action. However, it is our duty as a nation to help and who return home under the assisted voluntary return support in every way we can. scheme, which includes funding that can be used for My noble friend raised the diamond issue, as did reskilling or setting up a business. I can tell him that other several other noble Lords. My noble friends officials are in discussion with the diaspora on how Lord Avebury and Lord Chidgey and the noble Baroness, that can be made most useful, so I hope that that Lady Symons, all touched on it. We deplore the human meets his very valid point. rights abuses that were reported at the Marange mine The noble Lord, Lord Triesman, I think, raised a and we will encourage our EU partners who lead in number of vital issues, among which was the issue of the Kimberley process to secure reform of the the UK people domiciled in Zimbabwe. We had a Zimbabwean diamond mining industry. That is all I voluntary resettlement scheme, because I am advised can say on that at the moment, but behind those words that there are actually 12,000 British nationals in are some strong intentions to ensure that the Kimberley Zimbabwe—that seems a large number—most, it is process works. said, long-established and self-sufficient. But I am The noble Lord, Lord Hughes, spoke about links quite sure that there are some difficult cases as well, and dialogue with South Africa. That is ongoing and and we must keep an eye on them. The voluntary continuous and regarded as urgent. Talks were held resettlement scheme has now ended, I am advised, so I with the president when he visited here; there have do not know whether it is operating to help those been further and constant links with South African people. It is obviously an issue that we must watch officials. There is a sense of urgency, but it must be very closely. balanced, as the noble Lord will be the first to recognise The noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, with his usual because he is expert in these fields, with a degree of expertise, who also mentioned the diamond issue, timing, so that we do not stumble into giving advantages turned to the whole question of rebuilding Zimbabwe to those who do not wish well of Zimbabwe or want to and how investment confidence can be mobilised, and prolong the present difficulties. so on. I intend to make further comments on that in a My noble friend Lord Avebury characteristically few minutes, if the noble Lord will allow me. produced an enormous list of very expert insights and The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, mentioned the questions. I cannot answer them all, but he spoke huge refugee problem, with literally millions of people about safeguards for electors in the moving of the housed or camped in South Africa as a result of the constitutional process up to a referendum. These are refugee exodus. These are very serious problems, which things that we must watch for very carefully, and we we are discussing with the South Africans all the time, shall do our very best to overcome, although it is not and which will create more challenges in future that we easy, some of the open and blatant abuses that have have yet to solve. But we are very much aware of them. gone on in the past. There are some other questions on The noble Baroness covered the broad sweep of which I want to write to my noble friend. He raised, as these matters, as one would expect, and asked for a did the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, the IMF report number of responses, which I think that I shall cover and engagement with the IMF, the World Bank and in the next few minutes before I close. She asked about the African Development Bank on economic reform. HIV mortality; I have not got the answer and shall We see that as critical, and are working to encourage have to send that to her. Nor do I have a really detailed and develop this engagement. The IMF has identified assessment, because it is not actually very clear, as to in its report a number of policy improvements to be whether the 51 per cent ownership of projects or made by the Government of Zimbabwe in order to incoming investment is still valid, or whether it ever move towards a staff-monitored programme. We hope was—whether it was just a statement from President that the IMF and the Government of Zimbabwe will Mugabe and was never enacted in law. I do not know work together to implement these changes. It is a very the details, but I shall supply them to the noble Baroness, important report, and the procedures which could because they are rather crucial in creating the atmosphere flow from it will be valuable as well. in which funds begin to flow into Zimbabwe again. 803 Zimbabwe[LORDS] Zimbabwe 804

[LORD HOWELL OF GUILDFORD] to the process to develop a new constitution for Zimbabwe, Having covered those areas, I shall address one or and to improve budgeting and wider financial two more questions and put the matter in more general management. terms. The troubled history of Zimbabwe in recent Although it is the economic and social recovery years is very well known to your Lordships. It is also that is the more noticeable, there have been some known that its essence is rotten governance and the limited political reforms. YourLordships may be surprised collapse of prosperity, along with the appalling to know—I certainly was—that there are now no violence that characterised the elections of 2008. convicted political prisoners in Zimbabwe. All those Like your Lordships, I am encouraged that there who were imprisoned before the creation of the inclusive has been some progress on economic stabilisation Government have now been released, although regrettably since the formation of the inclusive Government last many are on bail with their prosecutions pending. February following mediation by the Southern African There have been notable acquittals, noted by your Development Community—SADC. Thanks to the Lordships today, including those of human rights inclusive Government, Zimbabwe is for most people a defender Jestina Mukuko and Deputy Minister designate safer and better place to live today than it was in 2008. Roy Bennett—I do not quite know whether he has Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai made a very brave been reinstated in his position, as the noble Baroness decision to enter into an agreement for the sake of the asked me, but I can find out. Human rights, electoral Zimbabwean people. We should therefore do as much and media commissions have also been established, as we can to help make a success of the inclusive with the potential to create conditions for credible Government arrangements. That is not to say that elections. I would make more comments on developments Zimbabwe does not face continuous and enormous regarding newspapers, which the noble Lord, Lord challenges, some of which are worsening, as we have St John, mentioned, but I do not have time to do so. heard. But at least the inclusive Government are there, There have been tinges of political reform, but of even if they do not turn out to be the underpinning of course the pace of that is very disappointing. A great the long-term solution that we all want to see. deal of work remains to be done. We welcome the There have been some successes, however, most granting of licences to independent papers; it is equally notably in economic reform. Just over a year ago important that journalists should be able to report freely Zimbabwe faced the greatest hyperinflation in economic and without fear of unjust prosecution. True friends history, the shops were empty and productivity had of Zimbabwe should therefore hope to see the Government collapsed. Now urban shops are full again and the of Zimbabwe take further steps in this regard, including IMF predicts modest growth of around 2.5 per cent the repeal of repressive legislation. Relatively few this year—the sort of figure that we could do with Zimbabweans have access to newspapers but many here. Not everyone is in a position to benefit from this have access to radio and, in towns, television. It was improvement, but economic regeneration has provided therefore disturbing to hear reports of recent attempts some local employment and enabled the Finance Ministry by so-called “war veterans” to control access to radios to benefit from modestly increased revenue. In recognition in rural areas. It is vital that Zimbabweans have access of the progress achieved in creating the conditions for to a wide range of political views for the constitutional greater macroeconomic stability under Finance Minister reform process to develop an effective way. Tendai Biti, the UK supported the restoration of There are challenges, too, on the economic front, as Zimbabwe’s voting rights at the IMF. the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, and others said. Investor As noble Lords observed, a year ago our newspapers confidence will return only if transparent, accountable were full of horrors about the cholera epidemic when government and the rule of law are established. It will 4,000 people died. Now, thanks to the inclusive remain low while arbitrary, violent farm seizures continue Government and the support of donors, including our and foreign businesses are deterred from investing as a own DfID, doctors, nurses and teachers are being paid result of an ill conceived indigenisation programme. and the schools and hospitals are open again. Donor Let me make it clear that it is the means by which efforts to improve sanitation have helped to avoid a indigenisation is achieved rather than the end that is of repeat of the epidemic. Far fewer Zimbabweans now concern to potential investors. require food aid, but difficulties remain. Parents struggle I have much more to say, but time forbids. This has to afford school fees or meet charges for health services been a powerful and effective debate. Successful and and unemployment is extremely high, but the situation sustainable elections alone can free Zimbabweans to is undeniably better and we should applaud the efforts build a prosperous, stable and democratic future. We of the reformers who have driven this progress. look forward to Zimbabwe once again providing Our own support has played a key role in enabling inspiration across the continent and serving as a force the reformers to improve service provision and improve for stability and economic growth. I thank noble Lords prospects for the people of Zimbabwe. I will not have for their lively and profound contributions to this time to go into all the aspects of DfID’s £60 million debate. The Government look forward to working investment in Zimbabwe last year but that was its closely with both Houses in pursuit of our shared goal largest aid package ever, and it has gone to improve of a better Zimbabwe. the supply and availability of food for up to 3 million people by providing seeds and fertilisers to boost 3.35 pm smallholder farming. It has also gone to basic Lord St John of Bletso: My Lords, I am extremely education. All of this assistance has gone to the people grateful to the Minister for his comprehensive reply. I who need it most. DfID has also supported activities am also pleased that he mentioned at the outset why that more directly support reform through a contribution Zimbabwe is such an important subject for this country. 805 Zimbabwe[10 JUNE 2010] Zimbabwe 806

I apologise for overrunning my speech; I rather and water—and the IMF report, which the noble naively thought that I had more time and got rather Baroness, Lady Symons, mentioned. I am delighted to carried away. I am extremely grateful to those noble see her speaking from the Front Bench again. Lords who have spoken with their vast experience and I was also pleased that the Zimbabwean ambassador, expertise. They certainly covered all the key issues, Gabriel Machinga, was able to join us today, as well as including respect for the rule of law, transparency and David Banks, who has played such an important role good governance, land reform, the role of the for the Zimbabwe All-Party Parliamentary Group. I Commonwealth—I sincerely hope that one of these hope that we will continue to have constructive dialogue days Zimbabwe will rejoin the Commonwealth—and to promote change in Zimbabwe. I beg leave to withdraw of course the important subject of the Zimbabwean the Motion. diaspora. I fear that until dual citizenship is allowed to Zimbabweans living abroad, many will be prevented Motion withdrawn. from returning to their home country. Other subjects were the challenges of infrastructure—specifically power House adjourned at 3.37 pm.

WS 47 Written Statements[10 JUNE 2010] Written Statements WS 48

Munro to produce her final report by April 2011 with Written Statements an interim report in January 2011 and a first report in September 2010. Thursday 10 June 2010 The Government are committed to implementing the recommendations of the Social Work Task Force, Child Protection which provide a strong starting point for Professor Munro’s review. We look to the Social Work Reform Statement Board to take forward those recommendations while the review is in progress. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for To support further improvement on the front line, Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): My honourable Friend the DfE is confirming today that the £23 million local the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Children social work improvement fund will be available to & Families (Tim Loughton) made the following Written local authority children’s services in 2010-11. Ministerial Statement. The successful CWDC programmes to support My right honourable friends, I informed the House recruitment and retention of social workers will also on Monday 7 June 2010 that the Government had continue, subject to some efficiencies which have been decided to commission Professor Eileen Munro of the achieved by reducing unnecessary bureaucracy and London School of Economics to carry out an independent marketing and overlap with the work of the Social review to improve child protection. The Secretary of Work Reform Board. State for Education has written to Professor Munro We are also confirming the funding that will support today to set out the remit of this review and I would the establishment of an independent College of Social like to take this opportunity to provide the House with Work and that pilots of social work practices will further details. continue. This confirmation relates to funding which The reforms led by the previous Administration has been protected in 2010-11. Funding for future were well-intentioned. The immense dedication and years will need to be confirmed as part of the forthcoming hard work of frontline professionals is an inspiration. Comprehensive Spending Review. But the child protection system in our country is not I would also like to take this opportunity to confirm working as well as it should. It is the Government’s to the House the Government’s commitment to ensuring view that we need a fundamental review of the system that serious case reviews, with identifying details removed, and to ask ourselves what will help professionals to are published. make the best judgments they can to protect vulnerable The key purpose of undertaking serious case reviews children. is to enable lessons to be learned from cases where a I firmly believe we need reform to frontline social child dies or is seriously harmed and abuse or neglect work practice. I want to strengthen the profession so is known, or suspected, to be a factor. In order for that social workers are in a better position to make these lessons to be learned as widely and thoroughly sound judgments, based on first-hand evidence, in the as possible, professionals need to be able to understand best interests of children, free from unnecessary fully what happened in each case, and most importantly, bureaucracy and regulation. I want social workers to what needs to change in order to reduce the risk of be clear about their responsibilities and to be accountable such tragedies happening in the future. Only by publishing in the way they protect children. I particularly want serious case reviews will this greater level of transparency social workers to have the confidence they need to and accountability be achieved. The Government’s challenge parents when they have concerns about the aim in publishing SCR overview reports is to restore circumstances in which children are growing up, and public confidence and improve transparency in the to know they will be supported by the system in child protection system, and to ensure that the context doing so. in which the events occurred is properly understood so The Secretary of State for Education and I have relevant lessons are learned and applied as widely as therefore asked Professor Munro to set out the obstacles possible. preventing improvements and the steps required to That is why Ministers have today written to all bring about improved social work practice. This will Local Safeguarding Children Board chairs and directors include considering how effectively children’s social of children’s services to confirm that, with immediate workers and professionals in other agencies work together. effect, the overview report and the executive summary As part of the review, we have asked Professor Munro of all new serious case reviews initiated from today to take account of emerging thinking from parallel should be published. Overview reports should be published reviews such as the Family Justice Review. We also together with the executive summaries unless there are want any review to be informed by the strongest compelling reasons relating to the welfare of any systems of child protection in other countries. children directly concerned in the case for this not to This is complex territory and necessarily wide-ranging. happen. Both the overview report and the executive We have given Professor Munro a broad remit, so that summary should be anonymised and should not contain she is able to consider a wide range of issues. Three identifying details. This means preparing SCR overview principles will underpin the Government’s approach reports in a form suitable for publication, or redacting to reform of child protection: early intervention; trusting them appropriately before publication. professionals and removing bureaucracy so they can The publication of serious case reviews is a sensitive spend more of their time on the front line; and greater and complex matter. Serious case review overview transparency and accountability.We have asked Professor reports contain personal information and it is vitally WS 49 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 50 important that published serious case reviews are Until the Work Programme is implemented, we will appropriately redacted and anonymised to protect the ensure support is in place. Where necessary, we will privacy and welfare of vulnerable children and their seek to extend current arrangements to ensure that families. There is an important balance to be struck there is no gap in provision and people can continue to between transparency and openness so that lessons receive help and support to get back into work. can be learned, and the protection and welfare of Once the Work Programme is implemented it will individuals. We believe that publication to the extent supersede much of the complicated raft of national that we are proposing is reasonable and in the greater programmes currently on offer and these will be phased public interest. out. The support currently provided by programmes The tragic case of Peter Connelly, and other recent such as the Flexible New Deal will be folded into the high profile cases such as those in Edlington, Birmingham Work Programme as soon as possible. and Kirklees, shocked the nation. They also prompted We are committed to supporting severely disabled public concern that vital information needed to be people and are currently reviewing the best way of made available so that agencies could be properly held doing this. to account and all the lessons properly learned. The The Government have today written to relevant Government are therefore confirming today their intention providers and will be beginning one-to-one discussions that the overview reports (together with the executive with them to discuss what this means for them. We summary) of all these serious case reviews will be believe that the Work Programme will offer significant published, appropriately redacted and anonymised, new opportunities for contractors from the private starting with the two serious case review overview and voluntary sectors to deliver truly flexible and reports on the case of Peter Connelly. personalised support, building appropriate partnerships As part of her review, Professor Munro has also to do so. We recognise the crucial role that the voluntary been asked to consider how serious case reviews could sector in particular has to play in tackling worklessness, be strengthened and whether there are alternative and our plans reflect this. learning models that could be more effective and efficient. We will be publishing further details as the design and implementation of the Work Programme progresses. Finally, I want to inform the House that the cross- government national safeguarding delivery unit will be disbanded with immediate effect and staff resource EU: Employment, Social Policy, Health allocated to new priorities, including supporting the Munro review. The Safeguarding Group within the and Consumer Affairs Council Department for Education will retain lead responsibility Statement for the Government’s child protection policy and will continue to work closely with other government The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department departments, in particular the Department of Health, for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): My honourable the Home Office, and the Ministry of Justice. friend the Minister of State for Employment, (Chris I have placed a copy of the letters sent today to Grayling) has made the following Written Ministerial Professor Munro, and to all chairs of local safeguarding Statement. children boards and directors of children’s services in the House Library. The Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council was held on 7 June 2010 in Luxembourg. I represented the United Kingdom. Employment: Work Programme The main item of the agenda was a policy debate on Statement the employment and social inclusion aspects of Europe 2020, the new European agenda for the next 10 years; The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department and in particular, the employment guidelines and social for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): My honourable inclusion target. The general approach on employment friend the Minister for Employment, (Chris Grayling) guidelines was agreed, but I abstained for the UK, has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. explaining that a final government position had not The Government have previously announced their yet been reached. The poverty target and three indicators plans for radical reforms of the welfare to work system of material deprivation, jobless households and relative and the implementation of the Work Programme. The income were also agreed. I intervened to state that the Work Programme will be a single integrated package UK was content for the poverty target to be forwarded of support providing personalised help for everyone to the June European Council but emphasised that a who finds themselves out of work regardless of the final view on EU2020 as a whole had not yet been benefit they claim. taken, and tabled a minute statement to this effect. This will give providers longer to work with individuals Political agreement was reached on a proposal for a and greater freedom to decide the appropriate support council regulation extending the provisions of Regulation for them. We will also offer stronger incentives for (EC) No 883/2004 and Regulation (EC) No [...] to providers to work with the harder to help, paying nationals of third countries who are not already covered providers out of the additional benefits they realise as by these provisions solely on the ground of their a result of placing people into work. nationality. The UK is not opted in to this regulation. We are determined to move quickly and are aiming The council also reached political agreement on a to have the Work Programme in place nationally by proposal for a council decision on the position to be the summer of 2011. taken by the Community within the Association Councils WS 51 Written Statements[10 JUNE 2010] Written Statements WS 52 established by the agreements with Algeria, Morocco, on the first session of the Preparatory Committee for Tunisia, Croatia, the Former Yugoslav Republic of the UN Conference on Sustainable Development Macedonia and Israel. The UK is not opted into these (“Rio+20”) (New York, 17 to 19 May 2010). agreements. I intervened to state that the text of the The following topics will be covered under any decisions went beyond what had originally been agreed, other business: and stressed that social security is principally a national information from the presidency and the Commission competence rather than an EU competence. on the challenges for a good environmental status Four sets of council conclusions (on adequate pensions of the marine environment; and social inclusion; new skills for new jobs; advancing information from the presidency on the eighteenth Roma inclusion; and active ageing) and a council session of the UN Commission on Sustainable resolution on a new European disability framework Development (CSD 18) (New York, 3 to 14 May were adopted. 2010); There was a progress report on the proposal for a council directive on implementing the principle of information from the Greek delegation on the signing equal treatment (anti-discrimination) between persons of a Memorandum of Understanding in the field of irrespective of religion or belief, disability, age or forestry between the Government of the Hellenic sexual orientation. Republic and the Government of the Republic of Turkey, and of a Joint Declaration between the Under any other business, there was information Minister for Environment, Energy and Climate Change from the presidency on the equal treatment between of the Hellenic Republic and the Minister for men and women engaged in an activity in a self-employed Environment and Forestry of the Republic of Turkey; capacity. The Italians also raised, as an information point, their ideas on simplifying the delivery rules of a request from the French delegation on genetically the European Social Fund (ESF), to be discussed fully modified organisms; at a conference later this month. Finally, there was presentation from the Commission on future steps information on conferences held under Spanish presidency in bio-waste management in the European Union and a presentation from the incoming Belgian presidency. (9955/10 ENV 308 AGRI 178 ENER 158); information from the Belgian delegation on the EU: Environment Council work programme of the incoming presidency; and Statement a request from the UK on the 62nd Meeting of the International Whaling Commission, Agadir, Morocco, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Energy 21 to 25 June. and Climate Change (Lord Marland): My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Department of Energy and Climate Change (Chris Huhne) has made EU: General Affairs Council and Foreign the following Written Ministerial Statement. Affairs Council Lord Henley, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Statement Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and I will represent the UK at the Environment Council in Luxembourg on 11 June. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford): My honourable The council will consider progress reports on the friend the Minister for Europe (David Lidington) has proposal for a regulation on the placing on the market made the following Written Ministerial Statement. and use of biocidal products; the proposal for a directive on the restriction of the use of certain hazardous The General Affairs Council and Foreign Affairs substances in electrical and electronic equipment (RoHS) Council will be held on 14 June in Luxembourg. My (recast); the proposal for a directive on waste electrical right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary (William and electronic equipment (WEEE) (recast); and the Hague) will represent the UK with the Secretary of proposal for a regulation concerning setting emission State for International Development (Andrew Mitchell), performance standards for new light commercial vehicles at the respective sessions of Foreign and Development as part of the Community’s integrated approach to Ministers. I will also attend. reduce CO2 emissions from light-duty vehicles. The agenda items are as follows: The Commission will present to council its Foreign Affairs Council (FAC): Foreign Ministers communication on the options to move beyond 20 per Iran cent greenhouse gas emission reductions and assessing the risk of carbon leakage. This will be followed by a Ministers will discuss EU sanctions as part of the policy debate and the adoption of some procedural dual-track strategy of engagement and pressure, in council conclusions. light of the likely passage of a UN Security Council resolution in the week of 7 June. Ministers may also The council will also seek the adoption of council discuss developments in Iran following the anniversary conclusions on water scarcity, drought and adaptation of last year’s June elections. to climate change, on preparing forests for climate change, and the fifth meeting of the Conference of the Western Balkans Parties (COP/MOP 5) serving as the Meeting of the Foreign Ministers will discuss the western Balkans, Parties to the Cartagena Protocol on Biosafety (Nagoya, in the light of the Sarajevo high level meeting on Japan, 11 to 15 October 2010). There will also be an June 2 between EU and western Balkan Foreign Ministers, exchange of views and adoption of council conclusions, which the Foreign Secretary attended. International WS 53 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 54

Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) Any Other Business—Georgia chief prosecutor Brammertz is expected to brief Ministers Georgia is on the agenda at the request of Lithuania. ahead of his six-monthly report to the UN Security Ministers may discuss the recent local elections (30 May), Council. Ministers are likely to review the issue of which the OSCE/ODIHR observation mission noted ratification of Serbia’s stabilisation and association marked “evident progress towards meeting OSCE and agreement with the European Union. Council of Europe commitments”. There may also be Somalia/Piracy discussion of Georgia’s relations with the EU: a visa Ministers will receive an update from the high facilitation agreement will be signed this month; representative on her visit to Kenya, Tanzania and negotiations on an association agreement are due to Seychelles of 18-21 May. Ministers’ discussions are start in July; a review of the Georgian action plan for likely to focus on support to regional counter-piracy engagement with Abkhazia and South Ossetia; and efforts and strengthening capability for prosecuting the European Union Monitoring Mission’s (EUMM) pirates. mandate is due for renewal in the autumn. Middle East Peace Process FAC: Development Ministers Ministers will discuss recent developments on the EU Development Ministers will discuss the following Middle East peace process, the Gaza flotilla incident agenda items: and international efforts to improve the situation in Somalia/piracy Gaza. This may include discussions of an independent investigation of events and how restrictions on access As with Foreign Ministers, Baroness Ashton will might be lifted. Ministers will also discuss the wider brief on her visit to the region of 18-21 May. The peace process, including the American-led proximity discussion is likely to focus on taking a comprehensive talks and their progress. approach to all of Somalia’s political, security and development challenges and enhancing co-ordination Sudan with the wider international community. Ministers will discuss the situation in Sudan, Millennium development goals particularly with a view to the January 2011 referendum on self-determination for South Sudan as part of the Ministers will be asked to agree conclusions on a 2005 Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA). The common EU position on the millennium development council will also discuss the conflict in Darfur. Ministers goals (MDGs) ahead of the UN high level review will focus on the EU’s engagement on Sudan going meeting on the MDGs in New York in September forwards to support peaceful completion of the CPA, 2010. Ministers are likely to discuss some of the key whatever the decision of South Sudan in the referendum. issues in the conclusions, most notably levels of official The council is also likely to stress that efforts must development assistance (ODA) commitments. The UK continue to find a political solution to the Darfur is committed to supporting an action orientated and conflict and the importance of improving security and ambitious outcome at the UN summit. humanitarian access in Darfur. Gender equality and development Child labour This is likely to be a general discussion, focused on Ministers will discuss council conclusions on the the “Gender Equality And Women’s Empowerment Commission staff working document on combating in Development, EU Plan of Action 2010-15” which child labour. The conclusions set out a number of will be attached as an annex to the council conclusions measures the EU should take to combat child labour, on the MDGs. The UK has been involved in the including through political dialogue and multilateral drafting of the action plan, which seeks to establish a affairs; corporate social responsibility; public procurement; practical framework to accelerate the achievement of and trade incentives. the MDGs, especially MDG 3 (gender) and MDG 5 Corfu process (maternal health). The OSCE-led initiative on European security might General Affairs Council (GAC) be discussed in the light of the joint Merkel-Medvedev The GAC will present and discuss the draft council proposals on strengthening the EU-Russia security conclusions for the June European Council (JEC) on policy relationship. 17 June which will focus on the European economy, Cuba financial regulation in advance of the G20 Toronto summit, millennium development goals and climate Ministers will discuss the annual evaluation of the change. Economic issues are likely to dominate the EU common position on Cuba, and assess progress European Council: the presidency will be seeking to made in the EU-Cuba political dialogue. Ministers finalise the Europe 2020 strategy and leaders will want will also agree council conclusions on Cuba which will to discuss reforms to economic governance in the centre on the continuing relevance of the common wake of recent turbulence. position, and may call on the Cuban Government to do more to improve the human rights situation in The council is expected to endorse conclusions of Cuba. the 3-4 June JHA Council by welcoming progress in implementing the European pact on immigration and Haiti—Disaster response lessons learned asylum. The GAC will also consider potential external Ministers will discuss the EU’s response to Haiti. items for discussion at the JEC including possible EU The meeting may also generate further debate on EU sanctions on Iran, following a new UN Security Council disaster response structures and resources. Resolution. WS 55 Written Statements[10 JUNE 2010] Written Statements WS 56

Strategic report on the Implementation of Cohesion participate in EU common visa policy, as it builds on Policy Programmes an area of the Schengen acquis in which the UK does The Commissioners for Regional Policy and not participate. Employment and Social Affairs will present the strategic After the Mixed Committee, the presidency presented report on the Implementation of Cohesion Policy the first main assessment description report for internal Programmes, published on 31 March 2010. As this is a debate (MADRID) on internal security in the EU. new requirement for the 2007-13 period, the presidency The report is based on a combination of threat assessments initiated council conclusions on the report which are from Europol, Eurojust and Frontex on which the to be adopted. The conclusions invite the Commission council was invited to debate and consider priorities to explore possibilities for a better co-ordinated and for future action. The UK intervened to outline that simplified policy and note that cohesion policy will the UK Government wanted to play a strong and need to support the Europe 2020 strategy and should positive role in the EU. While recognising the importance continue to foster competitiveness, innovation, of the Stockholm programme in setting strategic guidelines employment and economic, social and territorial cohesion for our work there were some aspects of the programme in the European Union. which caused the UK Government concern. The UK gave as examples the idea of a European public prosecutor European citizens’ initiative and a common asylum policy. The UK confirmed that There will be a discussion of the Commission’s it would consider whether or not to opt-in to new dossier on the European citizens’ initiative. The legislative proposals resulting from the Stockholm Government remain concerned that no impact assessment programme on a case by case basis with the objective has been carried out with which better to inform the of preserving security, civil liberties and the integrity proposed regulation. of the UK’s criminal justice system. On the MADRID 2010 Forum for Outermost Europe report the UK noted that Europol’s OCTA threat assessment was important and should inform our The Commissioner for Regional Policy will present work. There was a need to focus on non-legislative the results of the 2010 Forum for Outermost Europe solutions: practical co-operation and sharing of best to the GAC. Following an initiative of the Spanish practices between member states. presidency, council conclusions on the outermost regions are likely to be adopted. The conclusions encourage a Next there was a discussion on the most recent renewal of the strategy for the outermost regions and report from the EU Counter-terrorism Co-ordinator a consideration of the role of the outermost regions in (CTC), Gilles de Kerchove, on the implementation of EU policies, in particular Europe 2020. the EU strategy and action plan to combat terrorism. The report examined the nature of the threat, transportation security (especially in the field of land EU: Justice and Home Affairs Council transport), monitoring of terrorist travel, and the connecting of internal and external security. Delegations Statement intervened to support the report and the UK used the opportunity to outline the UK’s new national security arrangements, including the creation of the new National The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Security Council. The incoming Belgian presidency McNally): My honourable friend the Parliamentary said that they would focus work on the prevention of Under-Secretary of State for Crime Prevention (James radicalisation and the threat from chemical, biological, Brokenshire) has made the following Written Ministerial radiological and nuclear (CBRN) material. Statement. The council then adopted the EU-US counter-terrorism The Justice and Home Affairs Council was held on declaration where the presidency noted the importance 3 and 4 June in Luxembourg. My right honourable of the relationship between the EU and US. friend the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for The council welcomed agreement to the European Justice (Kenneth Clarke, QC) and I attended on behalf pact to combat international drug trafficking, which is of the United Kingdom. The following issues were designed to enhance operational co-operation of EU discussed at the council. countries in the fight against drug trafficking. The The council began with the Mixed Committee pact focuses on three broad areas of activity: disrupting (including Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland). cocaine routes; disrupting heroin routes; and tackling The Commission reported on implementation of the the money flows. second generation Schengen Information System (SIS II), The presidency then provided an update on the EU presenting comprehensive global schedule for the entry Russia JHA Permanent Partnership Council meeting into operation of SIS II in 2013. of 25-26 May, which was held in Kazan. Discussion The council adopted conclusions encouraging member focused on possible EU-Russia visa liberalisation and states to make more extensive use of automated border migration dialogue. control systems at their external borders. The UK will Over lunch Interior Ministers received an update not participate in these automated systems, or the EU on the progress of negotiations with the US on the passport regulation on which the automated systems agreement between the European Union and the United will be based, as they build on elements of the Schengen States of America on the terrorist finance tracking acquis in which we do not participate. programme (TFTP). The council agreed in May a The council received an update on the progress of negotiating mandate for the Commission to undertake the visa liberalisation road maps for the western Balkan negotiations with the US. The Commission hoped to countries agreed by the EU in 2009. The UK does not present the text of an agreement later in June. WS 57 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 58

After lunch the council adopted conclusions on as Rome III). The UK reminded the council that it unaccompanied minors, which outline proposals for had decided not to participate in the original proposal, handling the large numbers of unaccompanied children and, while it was highly unlikely that this position who enter the EU annually. would change, it had no desire to prevent others who The council then debated the follow-up to the EU wished to proceed. Work on the draft regulation pact on immigration and asylum, agreeing accompanying implementing enhanced co-operation in this area will council conclusions which will be presented to the continue under the Belgian presidency. June European Council. The UK said we had to The presidency outlined the approach towards future increase public confidence by getting the right balance work on a proposed regulation on succession and between immigration control, integration and protection. wills. These were agreed without discussion. The UK Resources should be prioritised on tackling migration has not opted into this proposal. challenges at source (overseas), making quick and fair The council adopted a negotiating mandate for asylum decisions, and enforcing the return of failed discussions with the Council of Europe on the EU asylum seekers. Practical co-operation between member accession to the European Convention of Human states was more important than harmonised legislation. Rights. Those discussions are expected to start later in Under AOB, Malta said that a report by the European the year and will lead, in due course, to a proposed Parliament Civil Liberties Committee supported its accession agreement which will have to be unanimously calls for further physical burden sharing. The Commission agreed by all member states. provided a progress report on negotiations of the EU The presidency then presented a state of play report Readmission Agreement with Turkey.The Czech Republic on e-Justice work and the Commission confirmed that asked the Commission to update the council on its the e-Justice portal would be launched on 16 July. negotiations with Canada to lift the current visa The presidency updated the council on the EU-Russia requirement on Czech citizens. Italy gave a short JHA Permanent Partnership Council meeting that presentation on the meeting of the G6 Interior Ministers took place 25-26 May 2010. The presidency considered which it had hosted in Varese in May. this a good basis for the EU-Russia summit that took There was also under any other business, an item place 31 May-1 June 2010. about the international anti-corruption academy, at Belgium listed its priorities for its upcoming presidency. the request of the Austrians. The academy will be set This included continuing work on matters such as the up in Austria and a conference will be held in Vienna European Protection Order, the protection of victims, on 2-3 September 2010 on this. succession and wills, as well as new work on the On the justice day, a general approach was reached European Investigation Order. on the Commission proposal for a directive on combating human trafficking as the basis for the next stage of negotiations with the European Parliament. The Financial Services Authority: Annual Government are broadly content with this approach, Report although it has not yet decided whether to opt in and the proposal remains subject to Parliamentary scrutiny. Statement The Commission presented a state of play report on the directive to combat child sexual exploitation The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord and abuse and child pornography. The Commission Sassoon): My honourable friend the Financial Secretary emphasised the importance of this directive, in particular to the Treasury has today made the following Written that it would criminalise “grooming” and enable Ministerial Statement. prosecution without testimony from child victims. The annual report 2009-10 of the Financial Services There was a state of play report by the presidency Authority (FSA) has today been laid before Parliament. on the proposed directive on interpretation and translation Copies have also been deposited in the Libraries of in criminal proceedings. The presidency informed both Houses. Ministers that the current text is the outcome of The report forms a key part of the accountability negotiations with the European Parliament. mechanism for the Financial Services Authority under There was also a discussion about the directive on the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (FSMA), the European Protection Order. Some member states and assesses the performance of the Financial Services raised their concerns about the legal base of the current Authority over the past 12 months against its statutory text. The UK set out its reservations about the legal objectives. base but reiterated its support of the proposal’s objectives. The presidency has stated that it reached a general approach at this council meeting. However, we and Local Government other member states dispute this given that there were enough member states which could not support the Statement text to make up a blocking minority. There could be further discussions about this directive at the JHA The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Council in autumn. for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): The council agreed, without a vote, to a proposal to My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for authorise enhanced co-operation in the area of the law Communities and Local Government (Eric Pickles) applicable to divorce and legal separation (also known has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. WS 59 Written Statements[10 JUNE 2010] Written Statements WS 60

The Government have made it clear that deficit We have ensured that councils have the flexibility to reduction is their most urgent priority. On Monday take decisions locally on how to deliver the savings 24 May the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Chief needed. I am pleased that we have been able to keep Secretary to the Treasury therefore announced that formula grant at the level approved by Parliament of the Government would save over £6 billion from spending £29 billion. We have also announced further removal during this financial year. Included in that savings from ring-fencing of central government revenue and package were £1.166 billion reductions in grants to capital grants. This gives councils extra flexibility to local government. I have today placed in the Library make decisions about where savings are found, although of the House information on the revenue and capital this is subject to the usual rules which ensure that grants which will be reduced. capital funding is used on capital expenditure. A list of The Government are clear that deficit reduction, grants which have been removed from ring-fencing is and continuing to ensure economic recovery, is the included in the information made available in the most pressing issue facing Britain. This will restore House. confidence in the economy and support the recovery. There are good reasons for the changes we have Advice from the Treasury and Bank of England is that made. For example, we believe that the Housing and it is better to start to make the reductions in the Planning Delivery Grant has proved to be an ineffective current financial year. Not to do so will simply delay and excessively complex incentive. The coalition agreement the need for savings in future years, thereby compounding set out that we will provide incentives for local authorities the impact on public services, including those delivered to deliver sustainable development, including for new by local authorities, in the future. It is fair that local homes and businesses. authorities make a contribution to the savings to The Government believe that there is significant enable Government to take immediate action to tackle scope for local authorities to find efficiencies in the the UK’s unprecedented deficit in this financial year. way in which they deliver services. We believe there are It is time for a fundamental shift of power from further opportunities for an increased role for joint Westminster to individuals and their communities. We working between local authorities and between different want to end the era of top-down government by types of public authorities across local areas. Our providing a radical devolution of power and greater focus on providing councils with the flexibility to financial autonomy to local authorities. manage budgets effectively will ensure that councils can deliver those services which local people wish So we will reduce the performance management to see. burden on local government through abolishing the I recognise that making savings in-year will be comprehensive area assessment and reducing ring-fencing challenging for local authorities, as it will be for other of central government grants, freeing up resources to parts of the public sector. The information which my concentrate on local priorities and the delivery of department is today sending to every local authority essential frontline services. We are committed to a full provides the detail councils need to make the necessary review of local government finance, to giving councils decisions as quickly as possible on how they will a general power of competence, and to working with deliver the necessary changes. I have also made available local authorities to freeze council tax in England for at in the Library of the House a copy of the information least one year as outlined in the coalition agreement which we have sent to each local authority which sets and seek to freeze it for a further year, in partnership out the revised allocations. with local authorities. All of this will help to create the shift of power from the centre to local people that we I know that councils want this information as a are determined to deliver. matter of urgency and we have worked hard to deliver this. The Government therefore wish to provide as I am absolutely clear about the importance of the much clarity and flexibility to local authorities and services which local government provides. So we have other public bodies as quickly as possible so that they been determined to ensure local authorities can shield can best handle the changes proposed without an their key front-line services. impact on key frontline services. The Government have looked at whether it is possible I am satisfied that we have adopted a fair approach to focus the reductions on grants which have not yet to making the necessary reductions in the different been committed through grant determinations or other grants and funding streams. We are therefore simply statutory restrictions. This has been possible to some asking councils to check quickly to make sure that extent. Some of the reductions occur in grants where there are no errors in the calculation of the reductions. there are underspends, where the money has yet to be The detailed spending decisions we are outlining allocated or where a grant determination has not yet today show a clear determination to help tackle the been made. However, because of the scale of the immense public deficit the new Government have contribution from local government, it has not been inherited. possible to achieve the necessary levels of reduction without reducing some allocations included in grant determinations. Local government along with the rest Police: Grant Report of society is being asked to play its part in helping to Statement reduce the deficit. Where we have reduced revenue grants, no local authority will face a reduction of The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Neville- more than 2 per cent. This compares to the cut in Jones): My honourable friend the Minister of State for running costs for my department and its quangos of Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick Herbert) has today 10 per cent in 2010-11 made the following Written Ministerial Statement. WS 61 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 62

As indicated by my Statement of 27 May I have capital provision of £210 million to police authorities today laid before the House our proposals for the to develop their local infrastructure investment to revised allocation of core police funding for England support their operational activity. and Wales in 2010-11 in the form of the Police Grant Revised force allocations were set out in my Statement Report (England and Wales) Amending Report 2010-11. of 27 May 2010. I intend to implement the proposals subject to consideration of any representations and the approval of the House. Public Inquiry: Azelle Rodney The Government’s priority is to cut the budget Statement deficit and get the economy moving again. That means the police will have to bear a fair share of the burden, helped by £100 million of savings already identified The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord for this year on areas including procurement and IT. McNally): My right honourable friend the Lord I am quite clear that this saving can be achieved by Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Kenneth driving out wasteful spending, reducing bureaucracy Clarke, QC) has made the following Written Ministerial and increasing efficiency in key functions, while leaving Statement. the front line of policing strong and secure. I am announcing today the establishment by the Total Home Office cuts will be £367 million and in Ministry of Justice of an inquiry, under the Inquiries order to minimise the impact on the police service the Act 2005, to investigate the death of Azelle Rodney in Home Office will cut a greater than proportionate April 2005. share of its central budget. In summary, the Government The inquiry will be chaired by Sir Christopher intend to reduce police funding by a total of £135 million Holland, a retired High Court judge. I have agreed this year. This will be achieved by a proposed £115 million with Sir Christopher that the inquiry will determine reduction in Rule 2 grant, a £10 million reduction in the matters which an Article 2-compliant inquest would capital grant and a £10 million reduction in counter have determined had it been able to take place. terrorism specific grants. Even after these reductions The inquiry’s terms of reference are therefore: government funding to the police service will remain “To ascertain by inquiring how, where, and in what circumstances at £9.61 billion in 2010-11. This is still £124 million Azelle Rodney came by his death on 30 April 2005 and then to more than last year. make any such recommendations as may seem appropriate”. The arrangements for the inquiry will now be a Table: Proposed changes to Home Office 2010-11 Core Settlement matter for Sir Christopher. The Ministry of Justice Allocation as at Proposed Feb 2010 £m Allocations £m will provide support to him. I am very grateful to Sir Christopher for assuming Home Office Principal 4,600 4,600 this important role. It is more than five years since formula grant (including Mr Rodney’s death, and I very much hope that this MPS Special Payment) inquiry will be able to satisfy the public need for Rule 2 Grants 209 94 deaths of this kind to be explained and to resolve Total Home Office Core 4,809 4,694 Settlement matters for Mr Rodney’s mother, Ms Susan Alexander. Shipping: Navigation Aids Core settlement Statement I am proposing to deduct £115 million from the Rule 2 element of each force’s core Home Office grant Earl Attlee: My honourable friend the Parliamentary settlement. No other element of the police grant report Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning) will be amended. Rule 2 grants are former specific has made the following Ministerial Statement. grants from which conditions for how they must be I wish to inform the House that following the spent have been removed. publication of the consultants’ report entitled Assessment Specific grants of the Provision of Marine Aids to Navigation around the United Kingdom and Ireland in March 2010 (Official Specific grants for neighbourhood policing, basic Report, 10 March 2010, col. 19WS), I am inviting command units and crime fighting will remain at interested parties to provide me with their views on the planned levels for 2010-11. Counterterrorism policing recommendations. grants will be reduced by £10 million. Senior counterterrorism police officers have provided advice The report has over 50 recommendations which on the most appropriate way to find these savings would require action by the Governments of the United while ensuring that the police service retains the necessary Kingdom and Ireland or by the general lighthouse capabilities to counter terrorist activity and support authorities (GLAs) of both countries. Some of them our national security are self-evidently sensible and straightforward to implement. The GLAs are already doing so in a number The Government will none the less still be providing of cases. Others would be more challenging and take £569 million to forces through police counterterrorism longer. specific grants this year, maintaining 09-10 funding I intend to give everyone with an interest a further levels. opportunity to make their views known and I will take Capital Grant account of any opinions that are expressed before There will be a reduction of £10 million to the reaching conclusions on how the recommendations capital grant in 2010-11. This still provides a total should be implemented. WS 63 Written Statements[10 JUNE 2010] Written Statements WS 64

Key recommendations in the report include: The report has been posted on the department’s website (www.dft.gov.uk) and copies are available in creating a GLA joint strategic board to drive the Libraries of the House. efficiencies; using an annual target reduction calculator (RPI – Special Advisers x%) for GLA running costs; Statement developing a “roadmap” with the Irish Government The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord on the financing of the Commissioners of Irish Strathclyde): My right honourable friend the Prime Lights, setting out an incentivised financial model Minister has made the following Statement. which retains the all-Ireland body while allowing its Listed below are the names of the special advisers costs within the Republic of Ireland to be covered in post at 10 June 2010, including each special adviser’s wholly from Irish sources; and pay band, and actual salary where this is £58,200 or changing the structure and scope of light dues. higher, together with details of the special advisers’ pay ranges for 2010-2011, and the total pay bill cost of I should like to invite comments on these and any special advisers for 2009-10. other findings of the report by 15 July 2010 before Also being published today are revised versions of coming to any conclusions. I then intend to publish the Model Contract and Code of Conduct for Special decisions on what action needs to be taken and, if Advisers. Copies have been placed in the Libraries of necessary, to consult further on specific proposals. the House.

Salary if £58,200 Appointing Minister Special Adviser in Post Payband or higher (£)

The Prime Minister Andy Coulson Within scheme ceiling 140,000 Edward Llewellyn Within scheme ceiling 125,000 Kate Fall PB4 100,000 Jonny Oates PB4 98,500 Gabby Bertin PB3 80,000 Tim Chatwin PB3 70,000 Steve Hilton PB3 90,000 Polly Mackenzie PB3 80,000 Henry Macrory PB3 70,000 James O’Shaughnessy PB3 87,000 Liz Sugg PB3 80,000 Peter Campbell PB2 60,000 Sean Kemp PB2 60,000 Gavin Lockhart PB2 Michael Salter PB2 65,000 Rohan Silva PB2 60,000 Sean Worth PB2 James McGrory PB1 Deputy Prime Minister Lena Pietsch PB3 80,000 Richard Reeves1 PB3 85,000 Alison Suttie PB3 80,000 Chris Saunders PB2 60,000 First Secretary of State, Secretary of State for Foreign Arminka Helic PB3 70,000 and Commonwealth Affairs Denzil Davidson PB2 Chancellor of the Exchequer 2 Ramesh Chhabra PB2 60,000 Poppy Mitchell-Rose PB1 Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice David Hass PB2 69,266 Kathryn Laing PB1 Secretary of State for the Home Department and Fiona Cunningham PB2 65,000 Minister for Women and Equality Nick Timothy PB2 65,000 Secretary of State for Defence Luke Coffey PB2 60,740 Oliver Waghorn PB2 60,740 Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills Katie Waring PBI Giles Wilkes PB1 WS 65 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 66

Salary if £58,200 Appointing Minister Special Adviser in Post Payband or higher (£)

Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Susie Squire PB2 Philippa Stroud PB2 69,250 Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Duncan Brack PB2 67,000 Joel Kenrick PB2 Secretary of State for Health Jenny Parsons PB2 Vacancy Secretary of State for Education Henry de Zoete PB2 Elena Narozanski PB2 PB1 Secretary of State for Communities and Local Giles Kenningham PB2 Government Sheridan Westlake PB2 Secretary of State for Transport Sian Jones PB2 Paul Stephenson PB2 Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Simon Cawte PB2 Affairs Will Littlejohn PB1 Secretary of State for International Development Philippa Buckley PB1 Richard Parr PB1 Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Jonathan Caine PB2 69,266 Secretary of State for Scotland Willie Rennie (unpaid) Secretary of State for Wales Vacancy Secretary of State for Culture, Media, the Olympics and Sue Beeby PB1 Sport Adam Smith PB1 Chief Secretary Will de Peyer PB2 Vacancy Minister without Portfolio Vacancy Leader of the House of Lords, and Chancellor of the Flo Coleman PB0 Duchy of Lancaster Vacancy Minister of State, Cabinet Office Martha Varney PB1 Minister of State (Universities and Science), BIS Nick Hillman PB2 Leader of the House of Commons and Lord Privy Seal Robert Riddell PB2 Chief Whip (Commons) Chris White PB2 Ben Williams PB2 68,000 1 Takes up post with effect from 5 July 2 In addition, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has appointed Rupert Harrison (PB3, £80,000) and Eleanor Shawcross (PB2) to the Council of Economic Advisers.

Special Adviser Pay Bands for 2010-11 Terrorism: Stop and Search The pay bands and pay ranges for special advisers Statement for 2010-11 are as follows:

The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Neville- Scheme Ceiling £142,668 Jones): I wish to inform the House of errors relating to Pay Band 4 £88966—£106,864 those periods in the past which have recently been Pay Band 3 and Premium identified following an internal review of the authorisation £66512—£103,263 process for the stop and search powers under Section 44 Pay Band 2 £52,215—£69,266 of the Terrorism Act 2000. Pay Band 1 £40,352—54,121 The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) has undertaken Pay Band 0 Up to £40,352 work in relation to a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act concerning authorisations for the Section 44 stop and search powers. In the Pay bill costs course of reviewing its Section 44 records, the MPS identified an authorisation from April 2004 which had The pay bill for special advisers in 2009-10 was not been confirmed by a Home Office Minister within £6.8 million. the statutory 48-hour deadline for confirmation. WS 67 Written Statements[10 JUNE 2010] Written Statements WS 68

Subsequent investigations revealed that approximately Kent Constabulary 840 were stopped and searched in the relevant area Authorisation Statutory End during the period of the invalid authorisation. The Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date MPS is urgently considering what steps can reasonably be taken to contact those individuals involved. 19 February 2001 08.00 hrs 18 March 2001 19 March 2001 11 April 2001 08.35 hrs 08 May 2001 09 May 2001 As a result of this discovery, the Office for Security and Counter Terrorism (OSCT) in the Home Office Sussex Police undertook a review in May 2010 of all Section 44 Authorisation Statutory End authorisations since the Terrorism Act came into Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date force on 19 February 2001, in the course of which a number of other errors came to light. I have to inform 05 March 2001 11.50 hrs 01 April 2001 02 April 2001 07 September 2001 12.00 hrs 04 October 2001 05 October 2001 the House that it appears that stop-and-search powers 19 December 2001 15.30 hrs 15 January 2001 16 January 2001 have been used unlawfully by a number of police 15 January 2007* 09.15 hrs 11 February 2007 12 February 2007 forces on a number of occasions. The Home Office 12 March 2007* 14.21 hrs 08 April 2007 9 April 2007 has written to each of the police forces concerned to alert them to these errors and those forces are now in *The two occasions in January and March 2007 were addressed the process of assessing how many individuals were by Lord Carlile in his report for that year. stopped and searched in the periods of invalid authorisations. They will do their best to contact Durham those involved. To summarise these errors, on Constabulary 33 occasions authorisations were specified to be for Authorisation Statutory End 29 days, and two occasions when the authorisations Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date were specified to be for 30 days, whereas the statutory maximum period is 28 days. In addition, there was 03 April 2001 09.30 hrs 30 April 2001 01 May 2001 one further case (as well as the MPS incident in Cleveland Police April 2004) where ministerial confirmation for the Authorisation Date Authorisation Statutory End Actual End Time Date Date authorisation was not provided within the statutory 02 April 2001 10.30 hrs 29 April 2001 30 April 2001 48-hour deadline. All of these cases appear to have been as a result of administrative errors which were not identified at the time by either the police or the Home Office. A full breakdown is included in the City of London attached table. Police Authorisation Authorisation Statutory End Lord Carlile, the independent reviewer of terrorism Date Time Date Actual End Date legislation, has been informed. 29 April 2001 12.00 hrs 26 May 2001 27 May 2001 21 June 2001 12.00 hrs 18 July 2001 19 July 2001 Three episodes of errors taking place in the Section 44 20 July 2001 11.20 hrs 16 August 2001 17 August 2001 authorisation process have previously been brought to 17 August 2001 12.00 hrs 13 September 14 September the attention of the House. For completeness, these 2001 2001 are also included in the attached table bringing the total number of such cases to 40. Home Office officials are working closely with the National Policing Thames Valley Improvement Agency (NPIA) and the Association of Police Chief Police Officers (ACPO) with the aim of ensuring Authorisation Statutory End there are no incidents in future. Officials will keep Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date Lord Carlile and me informed and I will report back to the House as necessary. 29 April 2001 12.00 hrs 26 May 2001 27 May 2001 25 May 2001 12.00 hrs 21 June 2001 22 June 2001 22 June 2001 08.05 hrs 19 July 2001 20 July 2001 I am aware that there is considerable concern about 20 July 2001 08.04 hrs 16 August 2001 17 August 2001 the operation of Section 44 stop-and-search powers 17 August 2001 08.01 hrs 13 September 14 September going beyond these authorisation errors. The Government 2001 2001 are committed to a wider review of counterterrorism 24 June 2002 11.33 hrs 21 July 2002 22 July 2002 legislation, including the operation of the Section 44 stop-and-search provisions. While I take some reassurance from the fact that no errors have occurred since December 2008 when the authorisation process was tightened, I Metropolitan Police want to assure the House that there will be utmost Service Authorisation Statutory End vigilance in future. It is with the need for this in mind Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date that I have instructed Home Office officials unconnected with the administrative process to conduct the internal 29 April 2001 12.00 hrs 26 May 2001 27 May 2001 review of procedures. 25 May 2001 12.00 hrs 21 June 2001 22 June 2001 22 June 2001 12.00 hrs 19 July 2001 20 July 2001 Table of Erroneous Authorisations 20 July 2001 13.00 hrs 16 August 2001 17 August 2001 17 August 2001 12.00 hrs 13 September 14 September 2001 2001 Authorisations over the statutory 28 day period WS 69 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 70

Authorisations not confirmed within the 48-hour North Yorkshire Police statutory deadline. Authorisation Statutory End Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date Metropolitan Police 21 September 2001 12.00 hrs 18 October 2001 19 October 2001 Service 19 October 2001 11.45 hrs 15 November 16 November Actual time 2001 2001 Ministerial taken for Authorisation Confirmation Ministerial 16 November 2001 12.00 hrs 13 December 14 December Authorisation Date Time Date/Time Confirmation 2001 2001 2 April 2004 07.30 hrs 4 April 2004 – 51 hours & 11.10hrs 40 minutes

Hampshire Authorisation Statutory End Thames Valley Police Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date Actual time Ministerial taken for 02 September 2002 10.25 hrs 29 September 30 September Authorisation Confirmation Ministerial 2002 2002 Authorisation Date Time Date/Time Confirmation

29 November 2006 15.00 hrs 1 December 48 hours & 2006 – 15.15hrs 15 minutes

Bedfordshire Police Authorisation Statutory End Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date Use of Section 44 Powers where a valid authorisation was not in place—as previously advised to Parliament. 15 November 2002 10.00 hrs 12 December 13 December 2002 2002 Sussex Police Number of days where Authorisation Expiry power could have been Authorisation Date(1) Date used Essex Police June 2003 ~June 2003 - Authorisation Statutory End Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date 3 September 2007 25 September 2007 23

20 October 2003 08.05 hrs 16 November 17 November 2003 2003 South Wales Number of days where Authorisation Expiry power could have been Authorisation Date(2) Date used Greater Manchester Police 22 June 2005 24 June 2005 2 Authorisation Statutory End Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date Total forces: 14 19 January 2004 09.30 hrs 15 February 16 February 2004 2004 Total incidents: 40 16 August 2007* 15.20 hrs 12 September 14 September (1) The dates indicated here (for both Sussex Police and South 2007 2007 Wales Police) are the dates from which the authorisations would 13 September 2007* 12.00 hrs 10 October 2007 11 October 2007 commence if they had been submitted. (2) The dates indicated here (for both Sussex Police and South *The two occasions in August and September 2007 were Wales Police) are the dates from which the authorisations would addressed by Lord Carlile in his report for that year. commence if they had been submitted.

Fife Constabulary Authorisation Statutory End Authorisation Date Time Date Actual End Date Transport: Local Authority Schemes Statement 31 March 2008 16.43 hrs 27 April 2008 28 April 2008

Earl Attlee: My right honourable friend the Secretary South Wales Police of State for Transport (Mr Philip Hammond) has Authorisation Date Authorisation Statutory End Actual End Date made the following Ministerial Statement. Time Date The Government have made it clear that their most 6 February 2007* 13.50 hrs 05 March 2007 7 March 2007 urgent priority is to tackle the UK’s record budget deficit, in order to restore confidence in the economy and support the recovery. The Department for Transport *The occasion in February 2007 was addressed by Lord Carlile will play a full part in the spending review, which will in his report for that year and the Government Response to his report. The Government response also highlighted an incident in be reporting in the autumn. Only once the Government’s 2005 where South Wales did not have an authorisation in place spending review has been concluded will the Department between midnight on 21 June 2005 and 09.25 hrs on 24 June for Transport be in a position to identify those major 2005. investments that can be supported. WS 71 Written Statements[10 JUNE 2010] Written Statements WS 72

The Government have also made a commitment—as all schemes that were granted conditional approval set out in the coalition agreement—to reform the way or programme entry by the previous Government in which decisions are made on which transport projects will be reviewed as part of the spending review. are prioritised. Until then, the Government can give no assurances Given the uncertainties that both of these factors on funding support for any of these schemes; and create, and in view of the likely budgetary constraints, Ministers will postpone decisions on scheme orders and the consequent likelihood that not all schemes for schemes requiring DfT funding, but consideration will be able to proceed on their planned timetable, it will be given if there are alternative funding sources. would be inappropriate for the department to continue Similarly, public inquiries on schemes requiring to invest time and resources on development of schemes DfT funding will generally be postponed and no at the same rate as before. Local authorities will also further inquiries will be scheduled, but inquiries wish to consider carefully whether investing further will be allowed to proceed if there are alternative time and resources in developing such schemes ahead funding sources. of the spending review is justified. They should not The previous major schemes guidance for local assume that schemes prioritised under the previous authorities is today being replaced with new interim Government’s regional funding allocations (RFA) process guidance to local authorities, which has been placed in will be funded to the previous published levels. the Libraries of the House and will be available on the I am therefore today taking steps to help avoid Department for Transport website (www.dft.gov.uk) unnecessary expenditure, while the Government consider today. Officials will also be writing to affected local their transport priorities. These are as follows: authorities. the previous major schemes guidance for local The Government will aim to provide a firm indication authorities and associated approval processes are on the way forward later this year once the spending being suspended until further notice; review is complete.

WA 53 Written Answers[10 JUNE 2010] Written Answers WA 54

RAF pilots. The feasibility of training non-pilot officers Written Answers to operate remotely piloted air systems is being examined in a series of trials, but these will not qualify non-pilot Thursday 10 June 2010 officers to operate MQ-9 Reaper. Asked by Lord Moonie Abortion: Television Advertisements To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Question personnel are qualified to operate the RAF Reaper Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool as remote “pilots”. [HL134] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have received since 15 May about barring television advertisements for abortion Lord Astor of Hever: There are currently 25 RAF services. [HL68] personnel qualified to pilot the Reaper remotely piloted aircraft. Lord Shutt of Greetland: At 26 May, 603 pieces of Asked by Lord Moonie electronic correspondence have been received from members of the public about television advertisements To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many for post-conception advice services. Five pieces of Reaper unmanned aerial vehicles there are in the correspondence on the same subject have been received RAF inventory; and what plans they have to acquire from MPs, and none has been received from Members more. [HL135] of the House of Lords. Of the total received, 607 representations oppose the showing of television advertisements for post-conception advice services, Lord Astor of Hever: Three Reaper remotely piloted including abortion services. aircraft are currently in service with the RAF; a fourth Reaper was lost in an accident in April 2008. A further Alcohol: Pricing two Reaper are on order. The feasibility of further increasing the size of the Reaper force is under active Question consideration. Asked by Lord Avebury Asked by Lord Moonie To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, in To ask Her Majesty’s Government in what examining the likely yields of different duty increases percentage of missions this year the RAF Reaper on alcohol and associated decreases in consumption, force has released explosive munitions. [HL136] they intend to use the University of Sheffield’s model from their Independent review of the effects of alcohol pricing and promotion. [HL170] Lord Astor of Hever: Just over 7 per cent of RAF The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Reaper operational missions undertaken in Afghanistan Sassoon): As set out in the coalition agreement, the since 1 January 2010 have employed the release of Government are committed to reviewing alcohol pricing precision-guided weapons. and taxation to tackle binge drinking. Officials are Reaper is not an autonomous system and target aware of the findings of the University of Sheffield. engagement is commanded by the mission crew in the HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) currently uses a ground control station. The rules of engagement used fairly similar model to the Sheffield work. However, for Reaper weapon releases are identical to those used the Sheffield model was designed to investigate the for manned combat aircraft and strict measures are relationship between alcohol pricing, promotions and enforced to minimise the risk of collateral damage, alcohol-related harm. HMRC and HM Treasury need including civilian casualties. a model to estimate revenue implications of duty rate changes and so use their own model designed specifically for this purpose. BBC: Independence Armed Forces: Aircraft Question Questions Asked by Lord Fearn Asked by Lord Moonie To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many plan to review the independence of the BBC. personnel who are not qualified as pilots are being evaluated or trained or both to operate the RAF [HL302] Reaper. [HL133]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry Lord Shutt of Greetland: The Government are of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever): Currently all personnel committed to maintaining the independence of the qualified to operate the Reaper aircraft are qualified BBC and have no plans to review this. WA 55 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 56

Community Broadband Network as framework agreements. During the period the total number of orders and value of work placed through Question these arrangements is as follows: Asked by Lord Laird Number of To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Framework Agreement Orders Value 2005-06 will ask the National Audit Office to investigate the Design Services Framework - 8 689,046 formation, management and accounts of Community Midlands Broadband Network (CBN); whether they will ask Northern Framework for 9 2,058,917 the Financial Services Authority to investigate the Design Services compliance of CBN with the company rules lodged 2006-07 upon its formation; whether they will place accounts Design Services Framework - 1 1,136,769 of CBN for each year since its formation in the Midlands Library of the House; how much money they and Project Support Framework 17 5,938,659 Government agencies have paid to CBN in each 2007-08 year since its formation; for what purpose; and Project Support Framework 20 5,712,247 which department paid the money in each case. 2008-09 [HL82] Project Support Framework 34 11,684,516 Technology Design 5 5,806,955 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Consultancy Framework Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness 2009-10 Wilcox): No evidence has been presented to the Project Support Framework 35 13,172,327 Government that suggests any need for the National Technology Design 12 9,390,148 Audit Office to investigate CBN. CBN’s filings with Consultancy Framework the FSA are publicly available and up to date and no 2010-11 reason or evidence has been presented that would Project Support Framework 2 1,574,653 require an investigation. The Government do not hold accounts of CBN which is an Industrial and Provident Society. The former DTI and Defra paid £30,000 each to Ruralnet to set up CBN in 2003 and 2004. The The UK Government policy is that public procurement Countryside Agency and Defra paid £30,000 and £42,500 should be based on value for money (VFM) rather respectively in 2004 and 2005 to support a mentoring than just the price. VFM is defined as the best mixture scheme for local broadband projects. The Countryside of whole-life cost and quality needed to meet the need. Agency paid £8,000 in 2005 to CBN to support part of Therefore, it is the department’s policy to award orders the development of the CBN website. This amounts to and contracts on the basis of the “most economically £140,500. advantageous tender” in accordance with the criteria set out in the parent framework agreement. For example, the selection criteria for the project support framework Crime: Age of Responsibility and the technology design framework are a blend of Question product, service, right-first-time, cost, time and safety. The selection criteria for the design services framework Asked by Lord Corbett of Castle Vale are a blend of organisation, staff and approach. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Asked by Lord Laird will commission a review of the age of criminal responsibility. [HL111] To ask Her Majesty’s Government how the Department for Transport assesses suitability and The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord quality in selecting design consultants. [HL145] McNally): The Government have no plans to commission a review of the age of criminal responsibility.

Department for Transport: Consultants Earl Attlee: The UK Government policy is that Question public procurement should be based on value for money (VFM) rather than just the price. VFM is Asked by Lord Laird defined as the best mixture of whole-life cost and To ask Her Majesty’s Government what projects quality needed to meet the need. Therefore, it is the the Department for Transport has awarded to design Department for Transport’s policy to award orders consultants Mouchel in each of the past five years; and contracts on the basis of the “most economically how much each was worth; and how the contracts advantageous tender”. were evaluated. [HL144] Where possible, the department uses framework agreements to procure design consultancy services. Earl Attlee: All of the appointments made by the The evaluation criteria used for awarding orders and Department for Transport for design consultancy to contracts are in accordance with the criteria set out in Mouchel over the past five years have operated the parent framework agreement. WA 57 Written Answers[10 JUNE 2010] Written Answers WA 58

Duchy of Cornwall The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord McNally): As I indicated in my Written Answer of Question 3 June (Official Report, cols. WA7 and 8), the Government Asked by Lord Berkeley will consider this issue in due course. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the Duchy of Cornwall is a public authority for Internet: Broadband the purposes of the Environmental Information Question Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3391) and the Freedom of Information Act 2000. [HL178] Asked by Baroness Byford To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord plan to roll out high-speed broadband to rural McNally): The Duchy of Cornwall is not a public areas. [HL210] authority for the purposes of the Environmental Information Regulations 2004 and the Freedom of Information Act 2000. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox): Rollout of broadband is first and foremost a Elections: British Nationals matter for private sector investors. However, as stated Question in the Coalition’s joint programme for Government, we will seek to introduce superfast broadband in Asked by Lord Lester of Herne Hill remote areas at the same time as in more populated areas. On 8 June, the Secretary of State for Culture, To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Olympics, Media and Sport set out the Government’s will introduce legislative proposals so that British plans for ensuring the UK has the best superfast citizens who have worked overseas for more than broadband network in Europe by the end of the 15 years in international organisations have the Parliament. These plans include enabling access to same right to vote in parliamentary elections as existing infrastructure to reduce the cost of deployment. members of the Armed Forces, Crown servants and Further, the Secretary of State proposed three market employees of the British Council. [HL51] testing projects schemes for superfast broadband in rural areas. The full speech can be read at http:// The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord www.culture.gov.uldnews/ministers speeches/7132.aspx. McNally): The Government are aware that representations have been made on behalf of those working in some international organisations abroad that they should Mutual Societies continue to be able to vote after a period of 15 years Question continuous residence overseas. The Government have not yet considered the way forward on this issue. Asked by Lord Laird To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Human Rights will place copies of the rules, reports, annual accounts Questions and lists of committee members of companies registered as mutual societies in the Library of the Asked by Lord Lester of Herne Hill House when requested by a member of the House. [HL83] To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will give effect to the judgment of the European Court of Human Rights in Hirst v United Kingdom The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord by enabling prisoners (other than those guilty of Sassoon): Over 8,000 mutual societies are registered very serious crimes) to vote in parliamentary elections, with the Financial Services Authority (FSA). Each of in accordance with the recommendation of the these societies is required to place copies of rules, Committee of Ministers of the Council of annual accounts and lists of committee members with Europe. [HL50] the FSA and these are public documents and can be accessed by members of the public. The contact e-mail The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord for information is: mutual.societiesfcc/[email protected]. McNally): The Government are considering afresh the best way forward on the issue of prisoner voting rights. Parliamentary Constituencies Question Asked by Lord Lester of Herne Hill Asked by Lord Corbett of Castle Vale To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of whether changes are needed to To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they domestic law (apart from those made by the Equality plan to restrict access to judicial review and shorten Act 2010) to enable the United Kingdom to ratify the time available for public hearings over Protocol No 7 to the European Convention on proposals to alter parliamentary constituency Human Rights. [HL233] boundaries. [HL109] WA 59 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 60

The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord into the dangerous and severe personality disorder McNally): The Government have announced that category. Across the NHS and the National Offender legislation will be introduced to provide for the Management Service, the current annual revenue introduction of the alternative vote in the event of a expenditure incurred is £60 million. This cost includes positive result in the referendum, and the creation of the provision of assessment, treatment, management, fewer and more equal-sized constituencies. Further accommodation, a research and evaluation programme, details will be announced in due course. and for the central joint policy team responsible for the development and management of the programme. The total number of admissions into the dangerous Pensions and severe personality disorder (DSPD) programme Question to date is 456 individuals (source: DSPD Common Data Set, as managed at Broadmoor Hospital, which Asked by Lord Laird excludes a small number of females held in a DSPD unit at Low Newton prison). To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is the estimated annual saving if the state pension age is The DSPD programme was established to pilot methods of working with the most dangerous offenders raised from 65 to 66. [HL216] and patients in society. The programme has considered a range of challenges in terms of the assessment, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, treatment and the management of this most difficult Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): population. Its purpose has always been to improve Increasing the state pension age overnight for both the mental health outcomes and reduce the risk of men and women from 65 to 66 in 2020 would generate serious harm presented by this group. Progression around £4 billion annual net benefit saving (compared from the DSPD units into mainstream criminal justice to currently legislated policies) in 2020, around £5 billion and mental health services is also a core component of in each of 2021, 2022 and 2023, and around £3 billion the programme. Services being piloted through the in 2024. This estimate relates to benefit expenditure programme have been in full operation since 2005; and does not incorporate any broader economic effects treatment is expected to last between three to five that such a policy might have. years, and therefore, only a few prisoners and patients Notes: have progressed from the units. Consequently it is too Estimates have been rounded to the nearest £ billion, are in early to determine improvement in outcomes for prisoners 2010-11 prices and relate to the UK benefit case load. and patients across the programme. There are two linked evaluations of the DSPD Prisoners: Personality Disorders programme which are due to report shortly to the stakeholder departments; the Ministry of Justice and Questions the Department of Health. The first evaluation is Asked by Lord Corbett of Castle Vale being carried out by the University of Oxford and focuses on treatment offered and responses to treatment To ask Her Majesty’s Government what has at the four DSPD sites in high secure hospitals and the been the cost of the programme to treat prisoners high secure prison estate. The second evaluation, by assessed as having dangerous and severe personality Imperial College, is concerned with staffing and disorder; and how many prisoners have undergone organisation within the four sites. These two studies treatment since the programme began in will provide a preliminary assessment of effectiveness 2001. [HL159] and cost-effectiveness of the DSPD Programme and will help inform the work to consider the strategic To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their options for the future provision of DSPD and personality response to the paper by Professor Peter Tyrer of disorder services for offenders. These are due to be Imperial College, London, published in Medicine, published in the autumn. Science and the Law, that there is ″scarce evidence″ of improvement in outcomes of prisoners assessed as having dangerous and severe personality disorder Prisons after treatment in the four secure units in England where the programme operates. [HL160] Question To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Asked by Baroness Stern will establish a review of the effectiveness of the programme to treat prisoners assessed as having To ask Her Majesty’s Government in how many prisons the certified normal accommodation is dangerous and severe personality disorder. [HL161] (a) 750–1,000, (b) 1,001–1,500, and (c) more than 1,500. [HL141] The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord McNally): The Ministry of Justice and Department of The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Health have worked together to establish a range of McNally): On 30 April 2010 there were: services for dangerous offenders with severe personality disorder in prisons, high and medium-secure National 25 prisons with a certified normal accommodation Health Service (NHS) facilities and the community. between 750 and 1,000 places; The programme was announced in 2001 as a commitment 12 prisons with a certified normal accommodation to provide at least 300 places for offenders who fell between 1,001 and 1,500 places; and WA 61 Written Answers[10 JUNE 2010] Written Answers WA 62

one prison with a certified normal accommodation Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and of over 1,500 places (HMP Isle of Wight—a cluster Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 prison made up of separate prison sites at Camp Hill, Parkhurst and Albany). Question Asked by Lord Berkeley Refugee and Migrant Justice To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have issued guidance on whether it is necessary, Questions under the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Asked by Lord Avebury Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (SI 1995/ 3163), to report an accident following which the To ask Her Majesty’s Government what person injured returns to light duties within three arrangements they are making to find legal working days. [HL120] representatives for clients who will be without representation if Refugee and Migrant Justice closes, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, and in which areas Refugee and Migrant Justice is Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): Guidance the sole or main provider. [HL169] on the statutory position has been issued by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE). All injuries to workers from an accident connected with work that result in The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord them being “unable to do their full range of normal McNally): The Legal Services Commission (LSC) will duties for more than three days” must be reported. implement provisions and issue further guidance to This advice is published in: ensure the safeguarding of the legal aid fund and the client should Refugee and Migrant Justice (RMJ) HSE’s booklet, A Guide to the Reporting of Injuries, close their offices. The LSC will liaise with any appointed Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations agents to facilitate an orderly referral to alternative 1995 (ref L 73), that was first published in 1996; quality-assured, accredited legal providers. It is expected on the HSE website at http://www.hse.gov.uk/ that clients, and also caseworkers, will be able to riddor/riddor.htm#what and transfer to other organisations. The LSC tender exercise in the introductory notes to the accident book that for asylum and immigration contracts from October HSE publishes for employers. has seen significant interest in expansion by providers. In addition, this advice is given in a range of There are three areas where RMJ is currently the industry and sector-specific guidance published by sole provider; these are the Kent Coast, Portsmouth HSE. and Isle of Wight and Suffolk. However, should RMJ If an employer is unsure whether any incident close its offices in these areas, the LSC will seek should be reported, they can telephone (0845 300 9923) additional providers to ensure the service that RMJ HSE’s Incident Contact Centre for advice. supplied continues. Asked by Lord Crisp Vehicles: Automatic Plate Recognition To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment Question they have made of the effect of their late payment Asked by Lord Corbett of Castle Vale of bills on the charity Refugee and Migrant Justice. [HL211] To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many prosecutions for (a) motoring offences, and (b) other categories of offences there have been in England Lord McNally: The Legal Services Commission and Wales in the last three years for which figures (LSC) does not accept that payments are being made are available through the use of vehicle registration late. Standard monthly payments are received by all number-plate recognition cameras. [HL110] contracted providers which are then reconciled periodically by the LSC against bills submitted for cases that have The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord either closed or have reached the stage where a claim McNally): The court proceedings database holds may be made. information on defendants proceeded against, found The current billing arrangements enable both guilty and sentenced for criminal offences in England immigration and asylum providers to claim costs in a and Wales. However, specific information on offences reasonable period for the vast majority of their cases. beyond descriptions provided by the statutes under The LSC analysis of claims submitted suggests that which prosecutions are brought is not held. It is not approximately 80 per cent of stage claims are made possible to separately identify from centrally available within six months of a file being opened and data those offences proceeded against arising from the approximately 90 per cent are made within nine months. use of automatic number-plate recognition cameras.

Thursday 10 June 2010

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Col. No. Col. No. Child Protection...... 47 Financial Services Authority: Annual Report ...... 58

Employment: Work Programme ...... 49 Local Government...... 58 Police: Grant Report...... 60 EU: Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council ...... 50 Public Inquiry: Azelle Rodney...... 62

EU: Environment Council ...... 51 Shipping: Navigation Aids...... 62

EU: General Affairs Council and Foreign Affairs Special Advisers...... 64 Council...... 52 Terrorism: Stop and Search ...... 66

EU: Justice and Home Affairs Council...... 55 Transport: Local Authority Schemes ...... 70

Thursday 10 June 2010

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. Abortion: Television Advertisements ...... 53 Internet: Broadband ...... 58

Alcohol: Pricing...... 53 Mutual Societies ...... 58

Armed Forces: Aircraft...... 53 Parliamentary Constituencies ...... 58

BBC: Independence ...... 54 Pensions...... 59

Community Broadband Network ...... 55 Prisoners: Personality Disorders...... 59 Crime: Age of Responsibility...... 55 Prisons...... 60 Department for Transport: Consultants ...... 55 Refugee and Migrant Justice...... 61 Duchy of Cornwall...... 57 Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Elections: British Nationals ...... 57 Occurrences Regulations 1995 ...... 62

Human Rights ...... 57 Vehicles: Automatic Plate Recognition...... 62 NUMERICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. [HL50]...... 57 [HL120] ...... 62

[HL51]...... 57 [HL133] ...... 53

[HL68]...... 53 [HL134] ...... 54

[HL82]...... 55 [HL135] ...... 54

[HL83]...... 58 [HL136] ...... 54

[HL109] ...... 58 [HL141] ...... 60

[HL110] ...... 62 [HL144] ...... 55

[HL111] ...... 55 [HL145] ...... 56 Col. No. Col. No. [HL159] ...... 59 [HL178] ...... 57

[HL160] ...... 59 [HL210] ...... 58 [HL211] ...... 61 [HL161] ...... 59 [HL216] ...... 59 [HL169] ...... 61 [HL233] ...... 57 [HL170] ...... 53 [HL302] ...... 54 Volume 719 Thursday No. 11 10 June 2010

CONTENTS

Thursday 10 June 2010 Questions Sudan: Human Rights ...... 737 Children: Criminal Responsibility...... 739 Children: Vulnerable Children...... 741 Afghanistan: Child Asylum Seekers ...... 744 City of Westminster Bill [HL] Canterbury City Council Bill Leeds City Council Bill Nottingham City Council Bill Reading Borough Council Bill Revival Motions...... 746 Academies Bill [HL] Order of Consideration Motion ...... 747 Pensions: Automatic Enrolment Debate ...... 747 Zimbabwe Debate ...... 771 Written Statements...... WS 47 Written Answers...... WA 5 3