This Is a Preliminary, Unedited Transcript. the Statements Within May Be Inaccurate, Incomplete, Or Misattributed to the Speaker
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1 This is a preliminary, unedited transcript. The statements within may be inaccurate, incomplete, or misattributed to the speaker. A link to the final, official transcript will be posted on the Committee’s website as soon as it is available. RPTR ZAMORA EDTR SECKMAN FACEBOOK: TRANSPARENCY AND USE OF CONSUMER DATA WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 2018 House of Representatives, Committee on Energy and Commerce, Washington, D.C. The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room 2123, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Greg Walden [chairman of the committee] presiding. Present: Representatives Walden, Barton, Upton, Shimkus, Burgess, Blackburn, Scalise, Latta, Harper, Lance, Guthrie, Olson, McKinley, Kinzinger, Griffith, Bilirakis, Johnson, Long, Bucshon, Flores, Brooks, Mullin, Hudson, Collins, Cramer, Walberg, Walters, Costello, Carter, Duncan, Pallone, Rush, Eshoo, Engel, Green, DeGette, 2 This is a preliminary, unedited transcript. The statements within may be inaccurate, incomplete, or misattributed to the speaker. A link to the final, official transcript will be posted on the Committee’s website as soon as it is available. Doyle, Schakowsky, Butterfield, Matsui, Castor, Sarbanes, McNerney, Welch, Lujan, Tonko, Clarke, Loebsack, Schrader, Kennedy, Cardenas, Ruiz, Peters, and Dingell. Staff Present: Jon Adame, Policy Coordinator, C&I; Mike Bloomquist, Staff Director; Daniel Butler, Staff Assistant; Karen Christian, General Counsel; Kelly Collins, Legislative Clerk, Energy/Environment; Zachary Dareshori, Legislative Clerk, Health; Jordan Davis, Senior Advisor; Melissa Froelich, Chief Counsel, DCCP; Adam Fromm, Director of Outreach and Coalitions; Ali Fulling, Legislative Clerk, O&I, DCCP; Theresa Gambo, Human Resources/Office Administrator; Brighton Haslett, Counsel, O&I; Elena Hernandez, Press Secretary; Zach Hunter, Director of Communications; Paul Jackson, Professional Staff, DCCP; Peter Kielty, Deputy General Counsel; Bijan Koohmaraie, Counsel, DCCP; Ryan Long, Deputy Staff Director; Milly Lothian, Press Assistant and Digital Coordinator; Mark Ratner, Policy Coordinator; Austin Stonebraker, Press Assistant; Evan Viau, Legislative Clerk, C&T; Hamlin Wade, Special Advisor, External Affairs; Everett Winnick, Director of Information Technology; Greg Zerzan, Counsel DCCP; Michelle Ash, Minority Chief Counsel, Digital Commerce and Consumer Protection; Julie Babayan, Minority Counsel; Jeff Carroll, Minority Staff Director; David Goldman, Minority Chief Counsel, Communications and Technology; Lisa Goldman, Minority 3 This is a preliminary, unedited transcript. The statements within may be inaccurate, incomplete, or misattributed to the speaker. A link to the final, official transcript will be posted on the Committee’s website as soon as it is available. Counsel; Tiffany Guarascio, Minority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Health Advisor; Zach Kahan, Minority Outreach and Member Services Coordinator; Jerry Leverich, Minority Counsel; Jennifer Epperson, Minority FCC Detailee; Dan Miller, Minority Policy Analyst; Caroline Paris-Behr, Minority Policy Analyst; Kaitlyn Peel, Minority Digital Director; Tim Robinson, Minority Chief Counsel; Michelle Rusk, Minority FTC Detailee; Andrew Souvall, Minority Director of Communications, Outreach and Member Services; and C.J. Young, Minority Press Secretary. 4 This is a preliminary, unedited transcript. The statements within may be inaccurate, incomplete, or misattributed to the speaker. A link to the final, official transcript will be posted on the Committee’s website as soon as it is available. The Chairman. The Committee on Energy and Commerce will now come to order. Before my opening statement, just as a reminder to our committee members on both sides, it is another busy day at Energy and Commerce. In addition, as you will recall, to this morning's Facebook hearing, later today our Health Subcommittee will hold its third in the series of legislative hearings on solutions to combat the opioid crisis. And remember, our Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee will hold a hearing where we will get an update on the restoration of Puerto Rico's electric infrastructure following last year's hurricane season. So, just a reminder, when this hearing concludes, I think we have votes on the House floor. Our intent is to get through every Member before that point to be able to ask questions, but then after the votes, we will come back into our subcommittees to do that work. As Ray Baum used to say, the fun never stops. The chair now recognizes himself for 5 minutes for purposes of an opening statement. Good morning. Welcome, Mr. Zuckerberg, to the Energy and Commerce Committee in the House. We have called you here today for two reasons: One is to examine the alarming reports regarding breaches of trust between your company, one of the biggest and most powerful in the world, and its users; and the second reason is to widen our lens 5 This is a preliminary, unedited transcript. The statements within may be inaccurate, incomplete, or misattributed to the speaker. A link to the final, official transcript will be posted on the Committee’s website as soon as it is available. to larger questions about the fundamental relationship tech companies have with their users. The incident involving Cambridge Analytica and the compromised personal information of approximately 87 million American users -- or mostly American users -- is deeply disturbing to this committee. The American people are concerned about how Facebook protects and profits from its users' data. In short, does Facebook keep its end of the agreement with its users? How should we as policymakers evaluate and respond to these events? Does Congress need to clarify whether or not consumers own or have any real power over their online data? Have edge providers grown to the point that they need Federal supervision? You and your cofounders started a company in your dorm room that has grown to be one of the biggest and most successful businesses in the entire world. Through innovation and quintessentially American entrepreneurial spirit, Facebook and the tech companies that have flourished in Silicon Valley join the legacy of great American companies who build our Nation, drove our economy forward, and created jobs and opportunity. And you did it all without having to ask permission from the Federal Government and with very little regulatory involvement. The company you created disrupted entire industries and has 6 This is a preliminary, unedited transcript. The statements within may be inaccurate, incomplete, or misattributed to the speaker. A link to the final, official transcript will be posted on the Committee’s website as soon as it is available. become an integral part of our daily lives. Your success story is an American success story, embodying our shared values of freedom of speech, freedom of association, and freedom of enterprise. Facebook also provides jobs for thousands of Americans, including my own congressional district, with data centers in Prineville. Many of our constituents feel a genuine sense of pride and gratitude for what you have created, and you are rightly considered one of the era's greatest entrepreneurs. This unparalleled achievement is why we look to you with a special sense of obligation and hope for deep introspection. While Facebook has certainly grown, I worry it may not have matured. I think it is time to ask whether Facebook may have moved too fast and broken too many things. There are critical unanswered questions surrounding Facebook's business model and the entire digital ecosystem regarding online privacy and consumer protection: What exactly is Facebook? Social platform? A data company? An advertising company? A media company? A common carrier in the information age? All of the above or something else? Users trust Facebook with a great deal of information: their name, hometown, email, phone number, photos, private messages, and much, much more. But in many instances, users are not purposely 7 This is a preliminary, unedited transcript. The statements within may be inaccurate, incomplete, or misattributed to the speaker. A link to the final, official transcript will be posted on the Committee’s website as soon as it is available. providing Facebook with data. Facebook collects this information while users simply browse other websites, shop online, or use a third-party app. People are willing to share quite a bit about their lives online based on the belief they can easily navigate and control privacy settings and trust that their personal information is in good hands. If a company fails to keep its promises about how personal data are being used, that breach of trust must have consequences. Today we hope to shed light on Facebook's policies and practices surrounding third-party access to and use of user data. We also hope you can help clear up the considerable confusion that exists about how people's Facebook data are used outside of the platform. We hope you can help Congress, but more importantly the American people, better understand how Facebook user information has been accessed by third parties from Cambridge Analytica and Cubeyou to the Obama for America Presidential campaign. And we ask that you share any suggestions you have for ways policymakers can help reassure our constituents that data they believe was only shared with friends or certain groups remains private to those circles. As policymakers, we want to be sure that consumers are adequately informed about how their online activities and information are used. 8 This is a preliminary, unedited transcript. The statements within may be inaccurate, incomplete, or misattributed to the speaker. A link to the final, official transcript will be posted on the Committee’s website as soon as it is available. These issues apply not just to Facebook but equally to the other internet-based companies that collect information about users online. So, Mr. Zuckerberg, your expertise in this field is without rival. So thank you for joining us today to help us learn more about these vital matters and to answer our questions. With that, I yield now to the gentleman from New Jersey, the ranking member of the Energy and Commerce Committee, my friend Mr.