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Agnieszka Holland INTERVIEW WITH AGNIESZKA HOLLAND DIRECTOR OF “SPOOR”, A FEATURE FILM SUPPORTED BY EURIMAGES AUGUST 2019 BY TARA KARAJICA Agnieszka Holland © Karolina Poryzała Born in Warsaw, Poland, in 1948, Agnieszka way to translate it to the screen. We did spend a lot of Holland graduated from the Film and TV School of the time searching for the form of the story because the Academy of Performing Arts (FAMU) in Prague and genre is not obvious; it’s very mixed. It’s a combination began her career assisting Krzysztof Zanussi and of genres and this kind of storytelling is always more Andrzej Wajda. She collaborated with Krzysztof complicated to deliver. Kieślowski on the screenplay of his trilogy, “Three Colours”. Her film, Gorączka”“ , was screened in the IN THAT SENSE, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ADAPTA- Competition at the Berlinale in 1981, the year in which TION PROCESS? she emigrated to Paris. Since then, she has made I have always liked Olga’s writing very much, but over 30 films, won many awards, including the Gold- most of her novels don’t have a classical storytelling en Globe and a Berlinale Silver Bear, and has been structure – they are more a mix of essays, reflections, nominated for a BAFTA and an Emmy. Her films – “ In meditations and a lot of small stories that are inter- , “ and “ – Darkness” Europa Europa” Angry Harvest” twined. So this one seemed to be quite a simple piece to were all nominated for an Academy Award. adapt because it’s a psychological thriller with detective Tara Karajica talks to Agnieszka Holland about her story elements, suspense as well as certain psychologi- award-winning film, Spoor”“ , a cross-genre story that cal elements, and humour and grotesque. Olga wrote premiered at the 2017 Berlinale, where it won the the first draft and it was the first time she had adapted Silver Bear – Alfred Bauer Prize – for a feature film that her own writing and she was pretty sure that it would opens new perspectives, and about women in film. be quite simple. She did it in two months or even faster and when we read it, we found it really awful! It didn’t HOW DID “SPOOR” COME ABOUT? WHAT ATTRACT- work at all! It was stripped of all the bits of mystery ED YOU TO OLGA TOKARCZUK’S NOVEL “DRIVE YOUR and ambiguity and it was a very flat journalistic state- PLOUGH OVER THE BONES OF THE DEAD”? ment. So we then sat together, made a new structure and wrote some scenes, trying to find a common style. Well, I knew the writer, the content, the message and We were sure then that it would be the final script in also the challenge – the fact that it is a very capricious three months’ time but, two years and eighteen drafts and mysterious piece and it wasn’t evident to find a later, we were still battling to find the right one. 1– COUNCIL OF EUROPE - EURIMAGES INTERVIEW WITH AGNIESZKA HOLLAND - AUGUST 2019 CAN YOU DELVE A LITTLE DEEPER INTO YOUR WORK WITH KASIA ADAMIK? HOW WAS SHE INVOLVED IN THE FILM? HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN COLLABO- RATING WITH HER? We did some TV series and “Janosik: A True Story” together. Quite often, she did extended second-unit directing on most of my films from the past 20 years when she was available, a very extended second unit that wasn’t the classical second unit, but more in terms of the development of scenes. She has a slightly different style but, at the same time, it’s comple- Agnieszka Mandat © Robert Palka mentary and comes from a similar sensibility but Finally, it was a friend of mine, Štěpán Hulík, a Czech from a different point of view. I always found it very screenwriter who wrote “Burning Bush”, who did a interesting to use this polyphony, this duality in points quiet and discreet bit of script doctoring and suddenly of view, trying to merge it into a film without making it started to work. I would say that we had the house it fall apart, but adding value to the storytelling. She’s built and practically finished, but the windows were very generous and quite often she gives me a lot of her dirty so it was impossible to look inside or out, and he ideas that work without her really being the co-author. washed the windows. But the final decisions were made Here, her involvement was really extensive and really during the editing because, after working on the script important. It was obvious that we should be present- for such a long time, we didn’t solve all the possible ed as co-directors. We weren’t co-directing in terms of problems and the dynamic of the shooting and directing together by sitting in front of the monitor the search for the shooting style took the story in a and directing, but we were dividing the scenes into slightly different direction than we had expected at the two units. She was shooting one kind of scene and I beginning. It was a pretty elaborate task. In the end, was shooting another kind of scene in a different way. maybe it’s not perfect in terms of storytelling efficien- cy, but I think it has life, originality and importance. YOU DENOUNCE THE WAY RELIGION, AGGRESSION AND MASCULINITY OPERATE IN THE RIGID SOCIAL IN WHAT WAY DID THE EXPERIENCE OF MAKING HIERARCHY OF THE RURAL WORLD OF THE VALLEY, “SPOOR” MAKE YOU LEAVE YOUR COMFORT ZONE? A PLACE RULED PREDOMINANTLY BY MEN’S PRIDE, WHAT WERE THE CHALLENGES? GREED AND THOUGHTLESSNESS. IT FEELS THAT I wanted to make this film because it was very WOMEN AND ANIMALS JOIN FORCES AGAINST PA- different from my previous films. My last film had TRIARCHY. IS THAT RIGHT? quite a classical story and I found the way to make Well, I hope so. Of course, it’s a kind of metaphor. On it simple and complex at the same time, as well as a very practical level, it means that hunters are hunt- accessible and efficient. And I felt that I was working in a ers and they are blind to the suffering of animals and comfort zone and I had to leave that comfort zone and they also have disdain for the weaker, and women are not take advantage of the craft of the storyteller, which I actually am. Mostly, I know from day two or three how to shoot the piece, but here, we’ve been shooting dif- ferent versions of a scene for a week or maybe longer. Kasia Adamik, who was my co-director – she was the second unit director and then she became the co-di- rector because of the complexity of the shooting – brought another point of view. It was really a process. It wasn’t the execution of the concept that was ready before we started to shoot; it was the dynamics with mistakes and achievements, failures and little victo- ries. Agnieszka Mandat & Miroslav Krobot © Robert Palka 2– COUNCIL OF EUROPE - EURIMAGES INTERVIEW WITH AGNIESZKA HOLLAND - AUGUST 2019 about it. And this power also, of course, in our times, touches the reproductive rights of women. Women who are emancipated procreate much less than those accepting the patriarchal system. So, suddenly, the demography is changing, which is also changing everything. It’s one of women’s rights and part of the fight for freedom and feminism. Misogyny and political reactions like that of the Catholic Church, that of Donald Trump or the reaction of the Polish governing party are a reaction to this deep change and Agnieszka Mandat & Marcin Bosak © Robert Palka the danger is, of course, that they want to take from us, weaker. Older women are even weaker and ani- women, the rights that we have already gained. They mals are powerless. But the subject also works on a are not taken for granted. We have to fight for them metaphorical level and the hunters are not only all the time because we can lose them, something you hunters, but hunting is an attitude towards the world, can see in dystopian novels, films and TV series like, for which is heavily enforced by the Catholic religion à la example, “The Handmaid’s Tale”. polonaise. It means that we have power. It means that WAS IT A RISK TO MAKE THE FILM BECAUSE IT TACK- we can do with the air, the planet, the animals and LES NOT ONLY THE SACROSANCT DOCTRINES OF weaker people whatever we want. We want them to HUNTING AND THE CHURCH BUT ALSO WOMEN’S serve us, not to be the servants to a common good, FIGHT? to higher values such as solidarity, equality, freedom and respect for everything that is alive. We tried to We were making the film before the political change catch the moment of the rebellion which, of course, is in Poland. The film opened just as this change ambiguous because what Duszejko, the heroine, does happened, which was actually both sad and funny is not something I would advise you to do now. We because suddenly we could observe the same hate on also show a sort of fantasy about revenge and the trap a much higher level within the new government. The of anger, because anger is also, I think, the main sub- Minister of the Environment behaved exactly like the ject of this story. And there’s a duality, an ambiguity to hunters from our film, destroying everything around anger, because it can be very constructive in that it can them and hating ecologists.
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