Volume II '^ fi Tuesday No. 48 i 22nd March, 1966
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES)
OFFICIAL REPORT
SECOND SESSION OF THE SECOND PARLIAMENT OF MALAYSIA
CONTENTS
EARLIER ADJOURNMENT (Motion) [Col. 6829] ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 6830] BILL PRESENTED [Col. 68531 BILLS: The Preservation of Books Bill [Col. 6854] The Diplomatic Privileges (Vienna Convention) Bill [Col. 6858] The Internal Security (Amendment) Bill [Col. 6860] The Registration of Guests (Amendment) Bill [Col. 6897] The Minor Offences (Amendment) Bill [Col. 6899] The Cinematograph Films (Amendment) Bill [Col. 6904] The Common Gaming Houses (Amendment) Bill [Col. 6905] The Civil Law (Amendment) Bill [Col. 69131 The Supplementary Supply (1965) Bill [Col. 6918] ADJOURNMENT SPEECH: East Coast States of Malaya Floods [Col. 6921]
DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A.M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN, KUALA LUMPUR 1967 MALAYSIA DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report
Second Session of the Second Dewan Ra`ayat
Tuesday, 22nd March, 1966
The House met at Ten o'clock a.m.
PRESENT : The Honourable Mr Speaker , DATO' CHIK MOHAMED YUSUF BIN SHEIKH ABDUL RAHMAN, S.P.M.P., J.P., Dato' Bendahara, Perak. „ the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, Y.T.M. TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PUTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M. (Kuala Kedah). the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence and Minister of National and Rural Development, TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N. (Pekan). the Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N. (Johor Timor). „ the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah). the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N. (Sungei Siput). „ the Minister of Transport, DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, P.M.N. (Pontian Utara). „ the Minister of Education, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR JOHARI (Kedah Tengah). „ the Minister of Health, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah). the Minister of Welfare Services, TUAN HAJI ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT AL! KHAN, J.M:N., J.P. (Batang Padang). the Minister for Local Government and Housing, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH, P.J.K. (Ulu Selangor). „ the Minister for Sarawak Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.M.N., P.D.K. (Sarawak). „ the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K. (Kiang). the Minister of Information and Broadcasting, ENCHE' SENU BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Kubang Pasu Barat). the Minister of Agriculture and Co- operatives , TUAN HMI MOHAMED GHAZALI BIN HAJI JAW! (Ulu Perak). 6823 22 MARCH 1966 6824
The Honourable the Minister of Lands and Mines, ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BIN YA`KUB (Sarawak). the Assistant Minister of National and Rural Development, ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN BULON (Bagan Datoh). the Assistant Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, ENGKU MUHSEIN BIN ABDUL KADIR, P.M.N., S.M.T., P.J.K. (Trengganu Tengah). the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N., P.J.K. (Sepang). the Assistant Minister of Finance, DR NG KAM Pox, J.P. (Teluk Anson). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health, ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' LEE SAN CROON, K.M.N. (Segamat Selatan). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' ALI BIN HAJI AHMAD (Pontian Selatan). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister, ENCHE' CHEN WING SUM (Damansara). ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N. (Melaka Utara). ENCHE' ABDUL KARIM BIN ABU, A.M.N. (Melaka Selatan). WAN ABDUL KADIR BIN ISMAIL, P.P.T. (Kuala Trengganu Utara). TUAN HAJI ABDUL RASHID BIN HAJI JAIS (Sabah). ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN GUL AHMAD MIANJI (Pasir Mas Hulu). DATO' ABDULLAH BIN ABDULRAHMAN, Dato' Bijaya di-Raja (Kuala Trengganu Selatan). TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD. SALLEH, A.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S. (Segamat Utara). TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kelantan Hilir). ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N. (Muar Utara). TURN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID, J.P. (Seberang Utara). CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak). DR AWANG BIN HASSAN, S.M.J. (Muar Selatan). ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).
ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG, A.B.S. (Sarawak). P'ENGARAH BANYANG ANAK JANTING, P.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N. (Kluang Selatan). ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).
„ ENCHE' CHIA CHIN SHIN, A.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' FRANCIS CHIA NYUK TONG (Sabah). ENCHE' CHIN FOON (Ulu Kinta). ENCHE' D. A. DAGO ANAK RANDAN alias DAGOK ANAK RANDEN (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' C. V. DEVAN NAIR (Bungsar). ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK TANGKUN (Sarawak). TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S. (Batu Pahat Dalam). 6825 22 MARCH 1965 6826
The Honourable DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI ABDUL MAJID (Johor Bahru Timor). „ DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N. (Jitra-Padang Terap). ENCHE' S. FAZUL RAHMAN, A.D.K. (Sabah). DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah). ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah). „ ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N. (Penang Utara). „ ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD. YUNUS, A.M.N., J.P. (Kulim Utara). „ ENCHE' HANAFIAH BIN HUSSAIN, J.M.N. (Jerai). ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Baling). WAN HASSAN BIN WAN DAUD (Tumpat). ENCHE' STANLEY HO NGUN KHIU, A.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN TO' MUDA HASSAN, A.M.N. (Raub). „ DATO' HUSSEIN BIN MOHD. NOORDIN, D.P.M.P., A.M.N., P.J.K. (Pant). „ ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN SULAIMAN (Ulu Kelantan). TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu). ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan). „ DATO' SYED JA`AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, P.M.N. (Johor Tenggara). PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN, Q.M.C., A.B.S. (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' THOMAS KANA (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' KHOO PENG LOONG (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LOONG, A.D.K., J.P. (Sabah` DATO' LING BENG SIEW, P.N.B.S. (Sarawak). DR LIM CHONG EU (Tanjong). ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat). ENCHE' LIM PEE HUNG, P.J.K (Alor Star). DR MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMED (Kota Star Selatan). ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson). ENCHE' C. JOHN ONDU MAJAKIL (Sabah). ENCHE' JOSEPH DAVID MANJAJI (Sabah). „ DATO' DR HAJI MEGAT KHAS, D.P.M.P., J.P., P.J.K. (Kuala Kangsar). „ ENCHE' MOHD. ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K. (Sabah). „ ORANG TUA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah). ENCHE' MOHD. DAUD BIN ABDUL SAMAD (Besot). „ ENCHE' MOHAMED IDRIS BIN MATSIL, J.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (Jelebu-J empol). ENCHE' MOHD. TAHIR BIN ABDUL MAJID, S.M.S., P.J.K. (Kuala Langat). „ WAN MOKHTAR BIN AHMAD (Kemaman). „ TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan). 6827 22 MARCH 1966 6828
The Honourable ENCHE' MUHAMMAD FAKHRUDDIN BIN HAJI ABDULLAH (Pasir Mas Hilir). „ TUAN HAJI MUHAMMAD SU`AUT BIN HAJI MUHD. TAHIR, A.B.S. (Sarawak). „ DATO' HAJI MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ABDUL JABAR, D.P.M.S., A.M.N., J.P. (Sabak Bernam). „ ENCHE' MUSTAPHA BIN AHMAD (Tanah Merah). „ DATO' NIK AHMAD KAMIL, D.K., S.P.M.K., S.J.M.K., P.M.N., P.Y.G.P., Dato' Sri Setia Raja (Kota Bharu Hilir). „ ENCHE' NG FAH YAM (Batu Gajah). „ ENCHE' ONG KEE Hui (Sarawak). „ TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Hilir Perak). „ ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Perlis Utara). „ TUAN HAJI RAHMAT BIN HAJI DAUD, A.M.N. (Johor Bahru Barat). „ TUAN HMI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD. SAID, P.J.K., J.P. (Rembau-Tampin). „ RAJA ROME BIN RAJA MA`AMOR , P.J.K., J.P. (Kuala Selangor). „ ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' SEAR TENG NGIAB, P.I.S. (Muar Pantai). ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh). „ DATO' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM, D.P.M.P ., P.M.P., J.P. (Mengaembu). „ ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' SIOW LOONG HIN, P .J.K. (Seremban Barat). „ ENCHE' SENAWI BIN ISMAIL, P.J.K. (Seberang Selatan). „ ENCHE' SNG CHIN JOO (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN ALI (Dungun). PENGIRAN TAHIR PETRA (Sabah). ENCHE' TAJUDDIN BIN ALI, P.J.K. (Larut Utra). „ ENCHE' TAI KUALA YANG (Kulim Bandar Bharu). „ ENCHE ' TAMA WENG TINGGANG WAN (Sarawak). „ DR TAN CHEE KHOON (Batu). „ ENCHE ' TAN CHENG BEE, J .P. (Bagan). ENCHE' TAN TOH HONG (Bukit Bintang). ENCHE' TAN TSAK Yu (Sarawak). „ ENCHE' TIAH ENG BEE (Kluang Utara). ENCHE' TOH THERM HOCK (Kampar). „ ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah). „ ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas). ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TZE (Sarawak). „ TURN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD. TAIB, P.J.K. (Langat).
ABSENT : The Honourable the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan). the Assistant Minister without Portfolio, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN, (Kota Star Utara). 6829 22 MARCH 1966 6830
The Honourable ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB, P.J.K. (Kuantan). WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak). ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis). Y.A.M. TUNKU ABDULLAH IBNI AL-MARHUM TUANKU ABDUL RAHMAN, P.P.T. (Rawang). ENCHE' ABU BAKAR BIN HAMZAH (Bachok). O.K.K. DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' CHAN SEONG YOON (Setapak). TURN HMI HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N., P.J.K (Kapar). ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak). ENCHE' KAM WOON WAH, J.P. (Sitiawan). DATO' KHOO SIAK CHIEW, P.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim). ENCHE' PETER Lo Su YIN {Sabah). DATO' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA, P.M.K. (Pasir Puteh). ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N. (Temerloh). ENCHE' MOHD. ZAHIR BIN HAJI ISMAIL, J.M.N. (Sungai Patani). ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Timor). ENCHE' RAMLI BIN OMAR (Krian Darat). ENCHE' SOH AH TECK (Batu Pahat). ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka).
PRAYERS Question put, and agreed to. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Resolved, That notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 12 (1) the House shall EARLIER ADJOURNMENT adjourn this evening at 6.30 p.m. instead of 8.00 pm. (Motion) The Deputy Prime Minister and ORAL ANSWERS TO Minister of Defence (Tun Haji Abdul QUESTIONS Razak): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move : TINDAKAN BALAS TERHADAP PERBUATAN KERAJAAN That notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order 12 (1) the House shall SINGAPURA adjourn this evening at 6.30 p.m, instead 1. Dato' Haji Mustapha bin Haji Abdul of 8.00 p.m. Jabar (Sabak Bernam) bertanya kapada Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya di-beritahu Perdana Menteri, oleh kerana Kera- Ahli2 Yang Berhormat ada-lah suka j aan Singapura membangkitkan soal yang Dewan ini di-tanggohkan pada Perjanjian Pertahanan, mengenakan pukul 6.30 petang daripada per- bayaran yuran sekolah kapada murid2 sidangan ini, sebab di-fikirkan yang yang bukan warga negara Singapura, persidangan ini tidak bagitu ada menjalankan pendaftaran terhadap banyak perkara2 yang hendak di- ra`ayat Malaysia yang tinggal di- binchangkan. Jadi, itu-lah saya men- Singapura, mengapa Kerajaan terus chadangkan supaya pada petang ini menerus sabar membiarkan tindakan2 Dewan ini di-tanggohkan pada pukul Kerajaan Singapura itu akan tetapi 6.30 dan tidak pada pukul 8.00 malam. tidak mengambil tindakan yang patut terhadap Singapura. The Minister of Home Affairs (Dato' Dr Ismail): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya The Prime Minister: Tuan Yang di- sokong. Pertua, Kerajaan kita sedar di-atas 6831 22 MARCH 1966 6832
segala tindakan2 yang di-ambil oleh why there was this misunderstanding Keraj aan Singapura terhadap ra`ayat and why was the crate addressed to a dan Kerajaan Malaysia dan juga kita private individual. memandang tindakan2 itu satu per- buatan yang tidak bijak. Jadi dengan Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Mr Speaker, kerana memandang perbuatan itu Sir, I am aware of the incident referred tidak bijak nampak-nya tidak hares to. The crates containing the stores in hendak di-ambil tindakan balas. question were addressed to a military Jadi kalau memandang kapada per- officer of the Logistics Division of the buatan yang sa-umpama itu kita balas, Ministry of Defence by name so as to nampak sangat sa-bagaimana per- facilitate the delivery, but I can assure buatan kita ini, budak2 pula. Jadi the Honourable Member that the dengan kerana itu, jikalau kita hendak stores in question were intended for the ambil apa2 tindakan balas, biarkan-lah Malaysian Armed Forces. Unfor- di-atas apa2 perkara yang besar. Per- tunately, the crates in question did not kara yang sa-umpama ini tidak mem- bear any label or manifest to indicate bangkitkan keuntongan pun atau that they contained arms and ammuni- faedah atau kebajikan kapada ra`ayat tions. The misunderstanding relating to Singapura. Semua-nya kerugian yang them arose simply from the fact that kita rasa sangat-lah sadikit. Jadi the Police and other Malaysian autho- dengan kerana itu kita menj alankan rities involved in their handling were satu perbuatan yang sabar, dan dengan not kept informed of the facts about kesabaran itu kita harap-lah Singapura the consignment in these crates. ini barangkali boleh memikirkan di-atas perbuatan2 mereka sakalian Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, dan berasa kesal di-atas perbuatan Sir, will the Honourable Minister sa-umpama itu. Jadi ini-lah sebab-nya assure us that these arms are really yang kita tidak ambil tindakan balas intended for the use of our Malaysian di-atas perbuatan Singapura. Armed Forces and not elsewhere, because you must have heard that Berkenaan dengan soal Perjanjian these arms were intended to be Pertahanan, ini tidak ada apa2 consigned elsewhere? kesulitan kerana soalan itu berbangkit sahaja dan dengan sendiri-nya ter- Tun Haji Abdul Razak : Sir, I have padam. given that assurance and I can give the assurance again that these arms ARMS AND EQUIPMENT were intended for our Malaysian CONSIGNED TO PRIVATE Armed Forces. INDIVIDUAL THROUGH PORT SWETTENHAM Enche' Stephen Yung Kuet Tse 2. Enche' Lim Kean Siew (Dato Kra- (Sarawak): Would the Honourable mat) asks the Minister of Defence Minister inform this House whether whether he is aware that recently a that would be the practice for the crate which burst open at Port Swetten- future that is arms consigned to the ham was found to contain arms, the Armed Forces to be addressed to presence of which has not been dis- private individuals? closed either in the manifest or on the crate itself, addressed to a certain Tun Haji Abdul Razak : Mr Speaker, private individual and that this led to Sir, in this particular instance, in order considerable confusion in the dock to facilitate delivery, the consignment area and two days later, the Govern- was addressed to a military officer of ment allegedly issued a statement. the Logistics Division of the Ministry claiming that the arms and equipment of Defence. belonged to the Government; if so, whether he would inform the House Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Sir, is the why these arms were not shipped in Honourable Deputy Prime Minister the proper manner and if it was part informing this House that, if arms are of the military stores and equipment consigned to private individuals and 6833 22 MARCH 1966 6834
private addresses, the deliveries of the sekutuan sedang mengambil langkah arms will be facilitated? bagi memajukan tanah Sungai Panjang, Sabak Bernam, dalam Ranchangan Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Mr Speaker, Lembaga Kemajuan Tanah Perseku- Sir, I do not wish to say very much tuan dengan menanam kelapa sawit, more on this, because this is a matter dan jika benar, bila-kah ranchangan concerning security. I have given the ini akan di-mulakan dan berapa ekar facts required by the Honourable tanah akan di-majukan. Member. The Assistant Minister of National INCIDENT BETWEEN CIVILIANS and Rural Development (Enche' Sulai- AND MILITARY PERSONNEL IN man bin Bulon): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, KUCHING ON 24th JANUARY, 1966 penyelidekan sedang di-j alankan di- 3. Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu) asks the atas tanah mi. Sama ada tanah ini Minister of Defence the cause or dapat di-buka atau tidak, atau berapa causes of riots between civilians and luas tanah ini akan di-buka, dan bila military personnel in Kuching on the masa-nya akan di-buka, maka ber- night of 24th January, 1966, whether gantong kapada hasil penyiasatan yang he is aware that such riots will have di-j alankan itu. serious repercussions in Sarawak, and if so, what steps have been taken to SEIZURE OF THE "VANGUARD", prevent a recurrence of such riots. SARAWAK 5. Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the Minis- Tun Haji Abdul Razak : Mr Speaker, ter of Home Affairs the reasons for Sir, what took place in Kuching on the the seizure of the Vanguard which night of the 24th January, 1966, could gave a factual account of the riots in hardly be called a riot. It started with Kuching on 24th January , 1966, and an argument over food between a whether he is not aware that this high member of the Armed Forces and a handed action of the police has given local mee seller in the Kuching open rise to grave concern regarding the air market. This took place on the freedom of the press. 21st of January, 1966, but it. was most unfortunate that this incident built up Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, the seizure was tension which later that day, and on effected as a result of the order of the 24th January, resulted in a prohibition against a particular issue, number of assault cases, involving a i.e., the publication on 25th January, section of the civilian population and 1966. This order was issued by the the military. It is, of course, realised Commissioner of Police, Sarawak that such an incident will have serious Constabulary, on the direction of repercussions in. Sarawak. A senior myself under Regulation 17 of the military officer has now been appointed Preservation of Public Security Regu- as Commander of the Malaysian lations, 1963, after due consideration military troups in Sarawak, and one of had been given to the article appearing his responsibilities is to establish close on the front page of this particular liaison with the civilian authorities edition. In general, the article was with a view to fostering close relation- considered to contain material cal- ship and to create goodwill between culated to promote feelings of ill-will the civilian population and members and hostility between different classes of the Armed Forces. of the population, to wit to exacerbate and resuscitate the extremely high RANCHANGAN TANAH feeling existing between the Kuching DI-SUNGAI PANJANG, Malay Community and members of the SABAK BERNAM Malaysian Armed Forces. Inaccurate 4. Dato' Haji Mustapha bin Haji Abdul and alarmist portions of the article Jabar bertanya kapada Menteri Pem- were as follows : bangunan Negara dan Luar Bandar (i) The explosions were not hand- ada-kah benar bahawa Kerajaan Per- grenades and no statement that 6835 22 MARCH 1966 6836
they were handgrenades was appeared in the Sabah Times of the made by the Police. 28th January, which contained these (ii) The Honourable Dato' Jugah's words "Go home, Malayan Soldiers, address to the crowd was not we want peace" Thar is much the drowned by shouts of "send the same factual report. Why, then, is this Malayans back". His address was discrimination? received with acclaim and the crowd cheered him and dispersed. Dato' Dr small : Sir, luckily for the (iii) The account of the crowd not press of this country, the Honourable heeding the advice of Malay Member for Batu is not the Minister leaders is wildly exaggerated. of Home Affairs; otherwise, he would Majority of persons did so heed, start to censor all newspapers by although some hot-heads inter- taking only small extracts of any rupted by shouting. In general, article written in any newspaper. Now, the article was a lurid and rabble- this article by the Vanguard must be rousing exaggerated account, taken as a whole, and the editor was which was calculated to inflame advised that, if that article was an already tense situation and published, it might inflame the already revive acts of violence. To say high feeling between the Malay com- the least, it was a highly irrespon- munity and the Armed Forces there. sible and dangerous piece of journalism. This view was put to COLLECTION OF TURNOVER the editor by the State Informa- TAX tion Officer prior to going to 6. Enche' Chia Chin Shin (Sarawak) press. asks the Minister of Finance to state For reasons only known to the editor, (a) the total figure of Turnover Tax he chose to ignore this advice. collected for 1965; (b) the total figure of Turnover Tax Enche' Stephen Yong Kuet Tze: Is the Honourable Minister aware that in which remained outstanding in 1965; spite of this order of seizure, quite a considerable number of copies had, in (c) the steps being taken to investi- fact, been distributed before the order gate the causes of such outstand- became effective that morning; and ing unpaid Turnover Tax. since the Minister has stated several instances of inaccuracies, would it not The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan be better for the Minister, in fact, to Siew Sin): Mr Speaker, Sir, as the publish all these inaccuracies so as question is divided into three parts, I to clear the air, and similarly to allow shall reply accordingly : the editor, or the journalist, respon- (a) The total amount of turnover tax sible to put his facts right? collected to date on account of 1965 is $20,781,326. Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I said in my (b) The amount of tax outstanding reply to the original question that this for 1965 is about $13 million. view was put to the editor by the State Information Officer prior to going to It should be recognised that as press. For reasons only known to the the Turnover Tax Act did not editor, he chose to ignore this advice. become law until the end of June, 1965, it was not possible to start assessing the tax until September. Dr Tan Chee Khoon: I have here a The total tax for 1965 has not copy of the offending issue of the yet been finally assessed and the Vanguard containing the article con- cerned. On reading through this, I, latest figure comes to about $33.7 myself feel that there is nothing million. inflammatory. I wish to ask the Hon- (c) Every case of unpaid tax is ourable Minister whether he is aware investigated, and where the that a report of the same incident Comptroller is satisfied that that 6837 22 MARCH 1966 6838
there is no good and sufficient monthly basis, but I have instructed reason for failure to make pay- the Comptroller-General to see to it ment, the necessary action is that any case of genuine hardship is taken in accordance with the dealt with as leniently as possible and provisions of the Turnover Tax every assistance is given to taxpayers Act. to enable them to meet their tax liability. The Comptroller-General has SUBMISSION OF TURNOVER TAX also been authorised in genuine cases AT SOURCES RETURNS of hardship to use the current year basis to compute the tax liability and 7. Enche' Chia Chin Shin asks the to allow payment to be made on an Minister of Finance whether he realises instalment basis. the hardship endured by Traders owing to ?tie volume of work involved in CHANGE OF TURNOVER TAX AT accounting in order to submit the SOURCE TO IMPORT TAX Turnover Tax at Source Returns, especially for Retail Traders, who 8. Enche' Chia Chin Shin asks the would have to summarise the Sales Minister of Finance to state whether obtained from Local Purchase, from he considers essential to change the Malaysian Products and Foreign system of Turnover Tax at Source to Imported Goods, and if so, whether he Import Tax instead and, if so, when. will consider to amend the method of payment for Turnover Tax at Source Enche' Tan Slew Sin: There is no from yearly to quarterly or monthly intention at present to change the in view of the strong opinions existing system. expressed by the Chambers of Com- merce throughout Malaysia. NATIONAL ELECTRICITY BOARD NUMBER OF Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, EXPATRIATE OFFICERS Sir, to begin with, I must admit that I EMPLOYED am rather disturbed by the implications 9. Enche' C. V. Devan Nair (Bungsar) of the question which indicate that asks the Minister of Commerce and those liable to tax find it difficult to Industry to state the number of keep even the simple accounts required expatriate officers employed in the for Turnover Tax. If such is the case, National Electricity Board: one is driven to the conclusion that the (a) on a permanent basis, and persons for whom the Honourable Member pleads keep no accounts at all (b) on short-term contracts. for income tax purposes, even though they might be liable for it. I say this The Minister of Local Government because the accounts required for and Housing (Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh): income tax purposes will be much Mr Speaker, Sir, the answer is in two more complicated than those required parts: (a) on permanent basis nil; for Turnover Tax purposes. I certainly (b) 12 entitled contract officers, 5 non- am surprised that such an admission entitled contract officers, and ii short- should have been made, but perhaps term contract officers, totalling 28. the Honourable Member himself did not realise the income tax implications Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, of his question. Sir, will the Honourable Minister clarify what he means by "entitled Coming to the question itself, I have contract officers" and "non-entitled asked those concerned to contact the contract officers"? Comptroller-General of Inland Revenue or the Controller concerned, if they in Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh : "Entitled fact have any problem of the nature contract officers" mean these are the mentioned by the Honourable Mem- officers placed on the pensionable ber. It is not, however, proposed to establishment, or have expectations of amend the basis period of the tax, or being placed on the pensionable to collect tax on a quarterly, or establishment. "Non-entitled contract 6839 22 MARCH 1966 6840 officers" are those who are not on the Officers by end of April, 1969, and one pensionable basis. non-entitled contract officer by the end of February, 1970. Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, Sir, is it not a fact of the entitled Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr contract officers, practically all of them Speaker, Sir, I think there has been already have received, or have been some mistake. I believe the Honourable promised, the Malaysian Malayani- Minister has been answering Question sation bounty? If so, how does one No. 11. reconcile giving away this Malayani- Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: Mr Speaker, sation bounty and permanency of Sir, I got the wrong Order Paper as service? in the order of the previous Order Paper. The answer is: .Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh : Mr Speaker, Sir, that is a separate question on Electrical Engineering ... 61 which I require notice. Mechanical Engineering ... 5
MALAYSIANS UNDERGOING Total ... 66 TRAINING IN OVERSEAS UNIVERSITIES FOR SERVICE All these students are studying in the IN THE NATIONAL ELEC- United Kingdom and the period of TRICITY BOARD duration of the course is three to four years excluding two years pupilage 10. Enche' C. V. Devan Nair asks the training in the industry. From the total Minister of Commerce and Industry figure, the Honourable Member would whether he can give particulars relating see that the number being trained is to Malaysians undergoing higher train- approximately twice the number of ing in universities overseas with a view expatriate officers. to qualifying themselves for fulfilling higher responsibilities in the National Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Electricity Board, under the following Sir, if I heard the Honourable Minister headings : correctly, he said that all the 60 odd (a) number of persons undergoing students are all studying in the United such higher training abroad; Kingdom. Now, is the Honourable (b) branches of studies; and Minister aware that facilities for elec- trical engineering and for mechanical (c) duration of courses. engineering are available at the Uni- versity of Malaya at considerable Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: Mr Speaker, expense to the taxpayers of this Sir, the N.E.B. Malayanisation date is country? If so, Mr Speaker, Sir, will 31st December, 1967. However, four the Honourable Minister give us an contract officers will still be in service assurance that no students will be sent after that date. These officers are abroad by the N.E.B. in future, unless attached to the Generation Department they cannot find places in the Faculty by virtue of their wide experience and of Engineering, University of Malaya. will be replaced only when local This, Sir, not only gives them a local officers have gained the necessary background to the training but also experience in the particular field. Now saves foreign exchange. If I heard the 24 officers will ..... Honourable the Assistant Minister for Finance correctly yesterday, he was Mr Speaker: That is in reply to very concerned over the saving of which question? foreign exchange perhaps that is not shared by the N.E.B.? Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh : I am answer- ing Question No. 10. 24 Officers will Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: Mr Speaker, leave the service by 31st of December, Sir, I have little doubt that these 1967, one short term contract officer points raised by the Honourable Mem- will finish his contract at the end of ber have been considered very care- May, 1968, two short term contract fully by the substantive Minister, 6841 22 MARCH 1966 6842
Dr Lim Swee Aun. Nevertheless, this been awarded, I take it that no work will be passed on to Dr Lim for his should start on the site. Is the Honour- further consideration. able Minister aware that piling has practically started on the site? If so, 11. Enche' C. V. Devan Nair asks the on whose authority? Minister of Commerce and Industry to state the probable date by which he Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: Mr Speaker, expects to have the National Electricity Sir, I have answered that question Board organisation completely Malaya- previously. No work has yet been nised, and adds that if the Honourable started on the site on the building Minister has not finished answering it, project itself. There has been boring he would like to hear the rest of the tests for the purpose of piling esti- Minister's reply. (Laughter). mates, but no actual work on the building has been started, and I can COMPLETE MALAYANISATION assure this House that, quite unlike OF THE NATIONAL ELECTRICITY what the Opposition has presumed, the BOARD DATE contract is still very much in the Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: I am afraid process of being negotiated, and I I have just finished the whole answer, have said that the Committee of when I was interrupted. Officials has just completed its work and will be submitting its final report LOW-COST HOUSING AT JALAN to the Cabinet Committee, and it is PEKELILING, KUALA LUMPUR premature for me to say anything COMPLETION OF WORK BY THE further on this matter. CABINET COMMITTEE Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, 12. Dr Tan Chee Khoon asks the Sir, perhaps, the Honourable Minister Minister of Local Government and is not aware of a signboard on the site Housing to state if the Cabinet Com- mittee, consisting of the Ministers for which says "Piling by Gammons" and Finance, Works, Posts and Telecom- so on. I mean, it does not say "boring munications, and Local Government test". If anybody is being misled, then and Housing, to consider the tender he is being misled by the contractor's for the Low-Cost Housing at Jalan signboard on the site. Pekeliling has completed its work, whether any other contractor has put Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh : Mr Speaker, in a new bid for the work, and when Sir, I am afraid that is a very old will the work on the project be started. story. We have gone through this sign- board affair many, many, times in the Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh : Mr Speaker, last meeting of Parliament; all I can Sir, the Cabinet Committee has still say in this House is that no contract not completed its work, although it has been awarded, and this House will has met on two occasions. The negotia- know the final result after the Cabinet ting committee consisting of officials Committee has made its decision. It is has, however, just completed its work too premature at this stage for me to on the 15th March, 1966, and is in the say anything in that direction. process of drawing up its final report for submission to the Cabinet Com- Dr Tan Chee Khoon : While we are mittee. No other contractor has put in glad of this assurance that no contract a new bid for the Jalan Pekeliling has been started, and the Minister project, As to when the project will be himself has stated that no work has started, this depends entirely on the started, is the Minister aware that I decision by the Cabinet Committee on have consulted expert opinion, and the final report. they tell me that the gadgets that are on the site are certainly not for boring Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, test but for piling. If so, will he not Sir, if no other persons have dared to consult his experts to find out the put in a bid, and if no contract has actual facts of the case? It is not we 6843 22 MARCH 1966 6844 who are misled, possibly the Minister order asked by the Honourable is being led up the garden path. Member: (a) The conditions for the selection Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: Mr Speaker, of stevedores as laid down by the Sir, I cannot stop the people, who are Penang Port Labour Board are : negotiating in finding out for them- selves, for the purpose of estimates, (1) Physical fitness; the amount of work involved. If they (2) Ages between 20 to 25; are prepared to involve themselves in (3) Number of years employed unnecessary costs in putting anything as stevedores. on the site for the purpose of their (b) The Board and I are aware of estimates, I cannot stop them. They the anxiety amongst some workers, do it at their own risk. as a result of the restrictions in the number of stevedores to be PORT WORKERS EMPLOYED BY registered. When the Port Workers THE PENANG PORT LABOUR (Regulation of Employment) Bill BOARD was introduced in this House last 13. Dr Lim Chong Eu (Tanjong) asks year, it was stated that there was the Minister of Labour to state : a multiplicity of employers and (a) what are the conditions for workers in the port, most of them selection of port workers by the working in a casual basis, and Penang Port Labour Board; that this was the cause for the (b) whether he is aware of the grave depressed conditions of employ- anxiety among the port workers ment in the Port. It follows from caused by the decision of the this that the registration scheme Port Labour Board to curtail to provide for greater regularity the number of registered port of employment of port workers workers and to restrict the under improved conditions would number of stevedoring employers; necessarily result in a reduction in the number of people employ- (c) what was the number of regis- able under the scheme. The tered port workers who have employing organisation to be hitherto been getting employ- registered under the scheme would ment in the Penang Port Area also have to be re-organised with and how many will be absorbed a view to ensuring reasonable by the Penang Port Labour security of employment and terms Board; and and conditions of employment to (d) what plans he has to alleviate the workers. the potential unemployment of (c) The present registration scheme nearly 1,500 previously registered will apply initially to stevedores port workers and whether he will and later to other categories of assure this House that the imple- port workers. The exact number mentation of the policy of the of stevedores in Penang is not Port Labour Board will not cause known, but I am informed that a undue hardship to those whose livelihood has been taken away total of 2,325 applications for from them. registration as stevedores were received by the Board. The Minister of Labour (Enche' (d) As I have stated, Sir, the Board V. Manickavasagam): Mr Speaker, Sir, has not yet decided as to how I must first point out, that the Penang many stevedores will be regis- Port Labour Board is an independent tered. I can assure this House body created under an Act of Parlia- that all possible steps will be ment. The question largely concerns taken to ensure that workers who the activities of this Board, and much have been dependent on port of the information I can give this work for their livelihood are not House is obtained from the Board adversely affected. Those, whose itself. I will answer the question in the primary employment is not in the 6845 22 MARCH 1966 6846
port, will probably not be regis- sure the Honourable Member is aware, tered and will have to cease port there are people in the port who do not work. depend solely on port work but do work as casuals people who work Dr Lim Chong Eu: Sir, in the very elsewhere. In order to see that people, long reply, which the Honourable who are solely employed in port work, Minister gave, I noted, in particular, get, a fair deal, we will have to de- that in his reply to part (b), he said casualise those who are just doing work that the anxiety would only involve on a casual basis. This was explained some port workers, he said that the fully in this House, and I think people number of registered port workers will are aware that the introduction of this be many and that those who will not port scheme will de-casualise certain be registered will be some. Sir, later on workers. But I can assure this House in his reply to part (d), I think, he that those who find themselves short of tacitly accepted the unofficial figure, or jobs, or who want to get extra income, the estimated figure, of 2,300 over we would do what we can for them. potential stevedores, being at present involved in the port work and 1,500 Dr Lim Chong Eu : Sir,' arising from of them is not some, but the majority the reply of the Honourable Minister, of them. Under the circumstances, Sir, is the Minister aware that in actual fact does not. the Honourable Minister feel there is trouble brewing from the actual that this is a matter of considerable workers, not the casual workers the importance involving the machinery of actual workers of the Port Commis- Government with regard to labour and, sion-and that the casual workers are therefore, his Ministry should supervise anxious? So, the position is not as rosy the activities and the plans of the Port as was presented by him in his reply. Labour Board on behalf of the interest of the workers on the Port? Enche' V. Manickavasagam : If I get him correctly, Sir, I thought. he says Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, as I that some trouble is brewing in the have stated here just now, the Ministry Port Commission, which is a separate places great importance in the working issue, Sir. of this Port, but I have also stated that it is an independent Board, where we Enche' Lim Kean Siew : Can the have workers' representatives, em- Honourable Minister inform this House ployers' representatives, and members as to how the Board came to this of the independent panel. Sir, I can scheme for the employment of em- assure this House that Government is ployees and the number of employers as anxious, or even more anxious than that will be used by the Board? the Honourable Member himself, to see that workers, who have been depending Enche' V. Manickavasagam: The on port work, are given work and that Board has not come to any definite their livelihood is not adversely conclusion as to the number of em- affected. ployers or workers. They have received applications from workers and that is Dr Lim Chong Eu: I am happy to the figure I gave just now i.e. 2,325 hear the reply of the Minister. How- applications. ever, Sir, will the Honourable Minister also assure us that he will take into Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: The consideration that those numbers of Honourable Minister mentioned the port workers, who will be put out by necessity to de-casualise the casual this de-casualisation scheme, will be workers. Would it not be possible, Sir, put on a priority basis with regard to that a large number of these casual future employment, when the port is workers may, in fact, have been casual extended over to Butterworth? for a very long time, and in such cases de-casualisation should mean that. they Enche' V. Manickavasagam : Sir, as I are placed on the permanent basis : have stated many times here, and I am would the Minister consider that? 6847 22 MARCH 1966 6848
Enche' V, Manickavasagam It will three days ago. I met the members of be looked into by the Board, Sir. the Board and I can assure this House, Sir, that nothing definite has been Enche' Lim Kean Siew: What I asked arrived at by the Board. was, how did the Board come to any scheme even though it might be a LABOUR EXCHANGES tentative scheme, was there a proper REGISTRATION OF LABOUR enquiry held, and whose views were 14. Dr Lim Chong Eu asks the Minister taken into consideration, and whether of Labour to state: or not any person appeared before the Board before the Board came to any (a) what is the system employed by tentative scheme? the Labour Exchanges for finding employment for (i) skilled labour Enche' V. Manickavasagam: The and (ii) unskilled labour; and Board, as I said earlier, came into (b) whether he is aware of the fact being after an Act. of Parliament, and that some persons are registered the people in Penang were given every for as long as two or more years opportunity to appear before the with the Labour Exchanges and Board or to give their views to the still have not, been able to find Board and the Board, I can assure this employment; and that the present House, is still prepared to hear views system used of rotation of first from interested persons. registered first served virtually means that any new registration Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Is the may have to wait for at least two Honourable Minister aware that in fact years in the case of unskilled the Board held only two meetings? At labour before a person can the first meeting a Mr Freathy freely reasonably hope to secure gave his advice, and the only person employment through the Labour who spoke at that meeting was Mr Exchange, and if so, what plans Freathy who was the adviser of the Government has to alleviate Board. At the second meeting of the hardship and to give unemploy- Board, the Board came to certain ment benefits to those who are decision, which were published in the registered with the Labour Ex- newspapers of Penang and the deci- change but who have not been sions published were as follows : able to secure employment. (1) that there will be only five employers of stevedores; Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Employment Ex- (2) that there would be 1,144 steve- changes can only assist employers in dores to be employed; finding the type of workers they need (3) that employers, who would and job seekers in finding work suited qualify, would be those who to their qualifications and desires. could give a guarantee that they The Exchange merely matches a could employ at least 17 gangs request. for workers with the job of stevedores; and finally seekers registered with it. The actual (4) that the workers employed would system used is that persons who are be given a guarantee of 222 days registered first, where they meet the a month and it is understood, employers requirements, are. referred apparently, that Legal Notifica- to the employers for interview first. tion No. 7 of 1964 would apply This principle of "first come first with regard to the wages and served" does not, mean, however, that conditions of work of the steve- the next senior registrant is only sent dores and that this publication for interview when the first has found was what caused a furore in employment. Once the first man has Penang. been sent for interview, the next registrant gains seniority for the next Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr interview. This is the system used for Speaker, Sir, I had been to Penang both skilled and unskilled workers. I 6849 22 MARCH 1966 6850 am aware that some job seekers have system itself are geared to making the to wait for long periods before finding labour force generally more employ- employment suitable to them. This is able. primarily because the number of job seekers far exceeds the demand for An unemployment insurance scheme, them in the exchanges, especially in the if it is studied carefully, cannot be the unskilled occupations . I am not aware answer to the unemployment situation of a system more equitable than that in this country. The characteristic I have described earlier, that of "first nature of our unemployment, as in all come first served". In some cases, the developing countries, is that unemploy- waiting period is long because of lapses ment is highest among youths, who are on the parr of the registrants them- new to the labour market. The pay- selves. They fail to keep their registra- ment of unemployment benefits requires tion with the exchanges alive by renew- that the unemployed persons have ing them every three months. Once worked for some time to build up this lapse occurs they inevitably lose qualifying contributions. But this their seniority of registration. standard rule alone, the vast majority of the youths will not qualify for such The fact remains , Sir, that persons benefits. The answer, the Government with no skills, or qualifications, will believes, lies in the positive fields of not be absorbed into employment as development and the expansion of quickly as the skilled job seekers. The employment opportunities. This is pre- skilled ones experience little delay in cisely what we are doing. finding employment . A look at the registers at the Employment Exchanges Dr Lim Chong Eu: Sir, I have several clearly shows that more than 60 per points to ask arising out of his lengthy cent of the job seekers possess no skills reply, but I will take the last one first. at all, and it will be impossible to find Is not the Honourable Minister them employment within a short period. expressing rather a sanguine point of Officers of my Ministry and the view about the positive policy of various Employment Exchange advi- Government in view of the fact that sory committees widely publicise the the number of workers, who are service provided by the exchanges, but registered with Employment Exchanges notifications of vacancies from emplo- have been steadily increasing with the yers still fall far short of the number of increasing period of Alliance policy- job seekers on the registers of our making in this country? exchanges. Even then registrants, including the unskilled ones appear, to Enche' V. Manickavasagam : Sir, as be very choosy about jobs. In 1959 a more pupils leave schools every year, scheme to employ these unemployed they are in the labour market looking workers on a road building project in for jobs and so the number increases. Genting Simpah, only twenty miles That shows that there is growth in this from here, was introduced , but the country, Sir, even though we have work finally had to be completed with family planning. contract labour, as the registrants of the Exchange were unwilling to accept Dr Lim Chong Eu: It does appear, such employment. Sir, that the answer is not only in positive planning but in family plan- The Government is aware of these ning, about which I had thought about difficulties. The Development Plans so far and the First Malaysia Plan are a great deal previously, i.e., to say that bold attempts to meet these problems, the best prospect for the future of this but their solution cannot be found over- country is not to be born at all. How- night . The target of the First Malaysia ever, Sir, there is one other supple- Plan to reduce the rate of unemploy- mentary question which I would like ment from 6 per cent of the labour to ask arising out of the reply given force to 5.2 per cent is as realistic as by the Honourable Minister and that one can get . The various training is, what provision of review of the schemes and indeed the educational existing system employed by the Labour 6851 22 MARCH 1966 6852
Exchange is maintained by the Minis- Buroh di-merata2 cherok rantau di- try, that is to say, is the Ministry dalam Tanah Melayu ini semenjak constantly reviewing new methods, or tahun 1964-61 tidak di-panggil temu- better methods, of seeking employment duga wal hal orang yang bukan Melayu for the labourers registered with the yang mendaftarkan diri mereka itu sa- Employment Exchanges; and, secondly, lama 2-3 bulan telah di-panggil temu- Sir, in so doing, will the Honourable duga dan di-beri kerja kapada mereka Minister assure us that he will try and itu, dan ini ada-kah sa-bagai satu solve the problem which he himself industrial calibre to which Malays, our has indicated, namely "first come first unskilled Malay labourers, are sub- served"? In this system of "first come jected to? For his information, saya first served", what happens is that, suka-lah hendak refer Yang Berhormat if a person is on the top of the list Menteri kapada Utusan Melayu, 3 hari- and there is a two-year waiting list bulan Mach. Bunyi-nya bagini : behind him, and his name is submitted for an employment, but he is turned "HAPUSKAN SAHAJA PEJABAT PEKERJAAN down, he goes right down to the Bukit Mertajam 2 Mach. Kerajaan akan di-desak supaya menutup sahaja Pejabat bottom of the list. Now, if he happens Menchari Kerja di-Butterworth, kerana per- to have been at the bottom of the jalanan-nya di-katakan tidak memuaskan first list, that is, he had been already hati orang ramai. Keputusan ini telah di- two years on the Employment ambil di-dalam Meshuarat Agong UMNO, Chawangan Simpang Empat, Seberang Exchange, he tries to get a job and he Prai, Kedah, yang berlangsong baharu2 mi. fails to get a job on the recommenda- Meshuarat Agong yang telah di-hadhiri tions, or through the help of the oleh lebeh 200 orang itu telah di-beri tahu Employment Exchange, he then has to bahawa ada-nya Pejabat Buroh di-Butter- worth itu telah tidak memberi untong wait another two years, so that makes kapada penganggor2, sebab-nya is-lah sa- him four years, and if at the end of tengah2 penganggor yang telah mendaftar- the second period he again misses it, kan diri untok menchari kerja di-situ he goes to six years. So, the number semenjak S tahun yang lalu, tidak pernah di-panggil untok temu-duga bagi mendapat of these type of chronic members pekerjaan, sa-balek-nya ada pula yang registered on the Employment Ex- baharu sahaja mendaftarkan nama sudah changes is increasing. Will the Honour- di-panggil." able Minister assure us that he will look into this problem of these chronic Oleh sebab yang demikian, saya unemployable labourers and try and suka-lah hendak mengetahui ada-kah solve their particular problem? Menteri Yang Berhormat sedar dan apa-kah kedudokan-nya? Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, I would like to reply to the second part Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Tuan of the question first. I said earlier in Speaker, saya pun tidak tahu macham my reply, a number of our workers, mana, bila PAS dapat satu cherita yang or youths, who look for jobs are dia boleh guna, dia gunakan resolution choosey about employment. That gives UMNO, bila masa lain, dia bangkang us lots of difficulties and creates pro- itu. Saya beri nasihat kapada Parti blems. However, Sir, in answer to both PAS bila2 pun boleh dengar nasihat his questions posed just now, I can daripada UMNO, tidak susah. assure this House, Sir, that the Employ- Permintaan daripada Ahli dari ment Exchange procedures are being Kelantan Hilir itu, saya tidak tahu satu reviewed as a whole, and we are getting tempat pun mana ada pusat tidak ILO assistance to see how we can mengambil pekerja2 daripada kaum improve the system. Melayu. Yang saya tahu, Tan Speaker, Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah mana2 kilang atau pun tempat industry, (Kelantan Hilir): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, majikan ada ambil pekerja2 Kerajaan2 soal tambahan. Ada-kah Yang Berhor- orang Melayu, orang China, orang mat Menteri yang berkenaan sedar dan India dan orange lain. Jadi itu-lah ketahul bahawa orange Melayu yang tujuan Kerajaan lebeh2 lagi mahu mem- telah mendaftarkan diri mereka itu sa- ber peluang kapada youth daripada bagai "unskilled labour" di-Pejabat2 orang Melayu dan juga lain2 kaum. 6853 22 MARCH 1966 6854
Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: and to provide for matters incidental Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-kira-nya thereto; presented by the Assistant Menteri Yang Berhormat tidak tahu Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports; di-mana-kah tempat kejadian ini telah read the first time; to be read a second berlaku, saya khabarkan kapada-nya, time at a subsequent sitting of this di-Butterworth telah berlaku perkara House. mi. Saya minta dia selideki di-atas perkara ini; jangan-lah dia berkata ini BILLS timbul-nya daripada PAS ini timbul daripada UMNO sendiri. THE PRESERVATION OF BOOKS BILL Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Tuan Second Reading Yang di--Pertua, saya baharu pergi Butterworth Labour Exchange, dan Menteri Muda Kebudayaan, Belia dan saya tahu, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, che- Sokan (Engku Muhsein bin Abdul rita itu tidak betul. Kadir): Dato' Yang di-Pertua, saya memohon untok membawa Undang2 OPERATION OF UNLICENSED "The Preservation of Books Bill, 1966", TRAWLERS ALONG SELANGOR untok di-bacha bagi kali yang kedua. COAST 15. Dato' Haji Mustapha bin Haji Undang2 Preservation of Books yang Abdul Jabar bertanya kapada Menteri ada sekarang yang telah di-perundang- Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerjasama ada- kan sa-belum merdeka is-itu dalam kah Kerajaan sedar bahawa beratus- tahun 1950, hanya meliputi negeri2 ratus buah pukat harimau maseh dalam Tanah Melayu sahaja dan telah menangkap ikan di-Pantai Selangor, membuktikan, terkebelakang, dalam terutama-nya di-Sabak Bernam, di- beberapa perkara. Sa-bagai chontoh- kawasan ayer sa-dalam enam depa, nya walau pun Undang2 itu mensharat- serta merosakkan jaring2 nelayan ke- kan tiga salinan daripada tiap2 buku chil, dan jika sedar, apa-kah tindakan yang di-chetak dalam Tanah Melayu Kerajaan berchadang hendak ambil hendak-lah di-hantar kapada Jabatan untok menj amin mata pencharian nela- Arkib Negara. Undang2 ini menghen- yan2 itu. daki yang buku2 ini sa-telah di-senarai- kan, hendak-lah Pula di-bahagikan The Minister of Agriculture and kapada dua foreign institutions, is-itu Co-operatives (Tuan Haji Mohamed Perpustakaan Universiti Singapura dan Ghazali bin Haji Jawi): Tuan Yang di- Trustee of the British Museum, semen- Pertua, Keraj aan sedar tentang perkara tara salinan yang ketiga-nya di-hantar penggunaan pukat tunda sa-chara ha- kapada Perpustakaan Universiti of ram oleh nelayan2 di-pantai negeri Malaya dengan tidak pula menentukan Selangor. Dari penghujong tahun 1963 sharat2 supaya di-simpan buku2 itu. hingga ka-akhir tahun 1965 sa-ramai Dengan sebab itu walau pun ada 109 orang tuan2 punya pukat tunda senarai buku2 yang di-terbitkan di- telah di-tangkap kerana memukat de- Tanah Melayu, tidak-lah pula ada ngan pukat tunda di-perayeran negeri chukup kumpulan simpanan yang leng- Selangor dengan tiada mempunyai kap bagi penerbitan2 kebangsaan dalam kebenaran. Sa-ramai 80 orang dari jurusan kesusasteraan, sain dan kese- jumlah 109 orang itu telah di-bawa nian dan lain2 lagi. Kejadian ini ka-Mahkamah. sangat-lah ganjil dan sangat2 mustahak di-betulkan. Rang Undang2 ini mengan- Tindakan yang sa-umpama ini akan dongi dua tujuan. di-teruskan. Pertama untok menjamin bahawa BILL PRESENTED dua salinan tiap2 buku yang di-terbit- kan dalam Malaysia, kena-lah di- THE FAMILY PLANNING simpan di-dalam tempat simpanan Bill to establish and to incorporate negara yang akan menjadi teras kapada the National Family Planning Board Perpustakaan Kebangsaan di-Ibu Kota 6855 22 MARCH 1966 6856 pada masa akan datang. Satu j awatan- Bill, but I am a little perturbed that kuasa untok Perpustakaan Kebangsaan this Bill has taken such a long time in itu telah pun di-lantek. coming. The old Act states that the books in the past should have been Yang kedua, walau pun Rang Un- deposited, amongst other places, in the dang2 ini mengandongi chara2 peneri- British Meseum and delivered to the maan dan penyimpanan buku2 dan trustees of the British Museum. I am penerbitan2 tingkatan Persekutuan, dia really at a loss as to why nine long tidak-lah melanggar hake negeri dalam years after independence the Alliance Malaysia untok membuat undang2 Government has now found out this negeri masing2 saperti, mithal-nya, relic of colonialism and chosen to negeri Sarawak yang sudah pun ada remove this vestige of colonialism. undang2 negeri-nya yang di-kenali sa- Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no doubt that bagai Sarawak Museum Deposit Lib- there are many more vestigial rem- rary Ordinance, 1961. Sharat2 baharu nants of colonialism and the sooner the Undang2 ini apabila di-bandingkan Alliance Government excise them dengan Undang2 yang telah ada is-lah : from the body politic the better it is (a) Dua salinan sa-bagai mengganti- for the Alliance Government and for kan tiga salinan yang ada seka- this country' in general. There is no rang daripada semua penerbitan2 rhyme or reason why any book printed yang di-terbitkan dalam Malaysia in Malaysia should be deposited far hendak-lah di-serahkan kapada away across the seas to the trustees of Jabatan Akib Negara untok sim- the British Museum. panan tetap. Penerbitan ini tidak Mr Speaker, Sir, I just want to touch akan di-bahagikan Pula kapada on one other point. I notice that in the lain2 institution bagaimana yang Schedule, four bodies are mentioned telah terjadi sekarang. the University of Malaya, Kuala (b) Denda kerana tidak menurut Un- Lumpur, the Dewan Bahasa dan Pus- dang2 ini di-naikkan kapada taka, the Sabah Central Library, and $1,000 di-champor dengan harga the Sarawak Museum. I do not know buku yang tidak di-serahkan itu. whether the Assistant Minister in (c) Perchetakan Kerajaan yang pada introducing this Bill knows that there masa sekarang ini tidak di-kehen- is in the offing -and I hope in the not daki menyerahkan penerbitan2 too distant future that we should Kerajaan kapada Jabatan Akib have a National Library, and in all Negara ada-lah di-kehendaki parts of the world, books that are membuat demikian. printed are always deposited in the National Library. I, for one, will be (d) Akan ada empat institution is-itu very happy if the Minister will add in Perpustakaan Universiti Malaya, addition to the four bodies, "5 any Sarawak Museum, Perpustakaan such under institutions as the Govern- Pusat Negeri Sabah dan Dewan ment may so desire, in particular the Bahasa dan Pustaka yang boleh National Library", which I hope the memohon untok salinan2 mana2 Government will establish in the imme- penerbit dalam tempoh 12 bulan diate future. daripada tarikh penerbitan. Reng- kas-nya Rang Undang2 ini Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Kadir: bertujuan untok meluaskan lagi Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dalam perkara sharat2 Undang2 Simpanan National Library memang dalam Buku2 Preservation of Books uchapan saya dalam bahasa kebang- Ordinance untok meliputi selu- saan yang telah saya sebutkan is-itu roh Malaysia dan juga untok daripada dua buku yang di-hantar m{emperbaiki bebeiapa keku- kapada Akib Negara itu ada-lah di- rangan2 untok kepentingan ke- tujukan untok menjadi teras kapada bangsaan. satu Perpustakaan Kebangsaan yang akan di-buat tidak beberapa lama lagi Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, dan satu jawatan-kuasa untok perpus- Sir, I think all of us must support this takaan itu telah pun di-lantek. mi telah 6857 22 MARCH 1966 6858 saya uchap dalam uchapan saya yang THE DIPLOMATIC PRIVILEGES pertama tadi. (VIENNA CONVENTION) BILL Second Reading Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Saya tidak dengar uchapan itu. Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Kadir: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya memohon Question put, and agreed to. untok membawa Rang Undang2 "The Diplomatic Privileges (Vienna Conven- Bill accordingly read a second time tion) Bill" di-bachakan kali yang kedua. and committed to a Committee of the whole House. Perhimpunan Agong Bangsa2 Her- satu, melalui Ketetapan 1,450 Butir House immediately resolved itself (14) yang bertarikh pada 7hb Disem- into a Committee on the Bill. ber, 1959, telah memutuskan untok mengadakan suatu persidangan antara Bill considered in Committee. bangsa yang terdiri daripada wakil2 (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Kerajaan di-luar negeri untok memper- timbangkan soal perhubongan2 dan Clauses 1 to 7 inclusive ordered to kebebasan2 diplomatik dan memasok- stand part of the Bill. kan hasil persidangan itu ka-dalam satu Perjanjian Antara Bangsa bersama Schedule dengan perkara2 yang berkaitan yang Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, di-rasai perlu. Persidangan Bangsa2 Sir, I have just now mentioned, and Bersatu berkenaan dengan Perhu- although the Assistant Minister has bongan dan Kebebasan Diplomatik clarified, that to the Schedule, I would telah di-adakan di-Vienna mulai 2hb be very happy, if the Government will Mach, hingga 14hb April 1961. Kajian2 add after "4", "5 The National Lib- daripada 81 buah negeri telah di- rary and any other institutions as the rundingkan termasok yang pada masa Government may so desire". As it itu Persekutuan Tanah Melayu, yang stands, according to the Schedule, all telah di-wakili di-Persidangan itu. these books are only consigned to the Atas dasar pertimbangan2 yang di- four bodies listed in the Schedule. ambil yang mengakibatkan beberapa pindaan pada perjanjian itu, Persi- Engku Muhsein bin Abdul Kadir: dangan itu telah menggunakan pada Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dua daripada 14 April, 1965, apa yang di-namakan buku ini di-minta di-hantarkan kapada Perjanjian Vienna berkenaan dengan National Archives dan daripada dua Perhubongan Diplomatik dan Protokol buku itu-lah boleh di-tentukan untok mengenai pendapatan kewarga nega- di-gunakan oleh Perpustakaan Negara raan dan penyelesaian pertikaian2 yang apabila di-tubohkan kelak. di-mestikan. Perjanjian dan protokol yang di- Mr Chairman: I believe the Honour- terima oleh persidangan yang bertarikh able Member for Batu suggested an pada 14hb April, 1961, telah di-buka- amendment to the Schedule, but there kan untok di-tanda tangani pada 18hb was no formal amendment moved. April, 1961, menurut sharat2 hingga 3 l hb Oktober, 1961, di-Kementerian Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Chairman, Persekutuan bagi Hal-Ehwal Luar Sir, I beg to move that "after "4", add Negeri Australia sa-terus-nya sa-hingga "5 the National Library if and when 3lhb Mach, 1962, di-Ibu Pejabat it is established". Bangsa2 Bersatu di-New York. Perj an- jian dan protokol yang sama juga Amendment put, and negatived. di-buka untok pemereksaan mengikut Schedule ordered to stand part of sharat2 yang akan di-simpan oleh the Bill. Setia-usaha Agong Bangsa2 Bersatu. Persekutuan Tanah Melayu tidak me- Bill reported without amendment : nanda tangani perjanjian itu. Perjanjian read the third time and passed. itu telah di-kuat kuasakan pada 24hb 6859 22 MARCH 1966 6860
April, 1964. Dalam tahun 1965 Jema`ah THE INTERNAL SECURITY Menteri telah memutuskan untok ikut (AMENDMENT) BILL bersama Perjanjian Vienna dengan perhubongan Diplomatik Protokol2 Second Reading yang bersangkutan. The Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice (Dato' Dr Ismail): Pada 9hb November, 1965, Malaysia Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a telah menyampaikan persetujuan-nya Bill entitled "an Act to Amend the untok mengikut sama perjanjian itu Internal Security Act, 1960" be now ka-Bangsa2 Bersatu dan dengan perjan- read a second time. jian itu di-kuat kuasakan bagi Malay- sia pada 9hb Disember, 1965, is-itu Sir, this Bill seeks to amend the sa-bulan sa-lepas daripada perjanjian provisions of Sections 41c, 59 and 60 itu di-persetujui oleh Malaysia. Rang of the Internal Security Act, 1960. The Undang2 ini bertujuan menguat kuasa- Internal Security (Amendment) Act, kan beberapa fasal daripada Perjan- 1964, which provides for the control of j ian2 Vienna berkenaan perhubongan admission of students into specified diplomatik supaya membolehkan institutions of higher education in Malaysia mematohi perjanjian itu. Malaysia, requires any student seeking Telah di-perhatikan bahawa beberapa admission to any of the specified insti- sharat2 tertentu dari Perjanjian Vienna tutions of higher education to apply sahaja yang telah di-masokkan bagi for a certificate of suitability before he tujuan memberikan kesan Unlang2 can be considered for admission. This di-Malaysia. Sharat2 yang lain dari Act is so drafted that there is no pro- Perjanjian Vienna itu yang tidak vision to exempt members of the di-masokkan dalam jadual boleh di- teaching staff of an institution of jalankan oleh Malaysia tanpa membuat higher learning, who intends to do post- tambahan dan pindaan kapada Undang2 graduate work, and persons, who pro- kita. Oleh yang demikian tidak-lah pose to attend extra-mural classes mustahak memasokkan sharat2 itu organised by such institutions, or such dalam jadual Rang Undang2 mi. persons as may be exempted by the Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mencha- Minister from obtaining a certificate of dangkan supaya di-bachakan bagi kali suitability as required by this Section. yang kedua. At present, therefore, members of the teaching star, who intend to do post- The Parliamentary Secretary to the graduate studies, and students pro- Minister of Health (Enche' Ibrahim bin posing to attend extra-mural classes Abdul Rahman): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, organised by the institutions of higher saya menyokong. learning have to obtain a certificate of Question put, and agreed to. suitability, if the regulations of the institutions provide that they have to Bill accordingly read a second time be registered or enrolled to attend the and committed to a Committee of the post-graduate course, or any course of whole House. study at a specified institution. It is House immediately resolved itself considered desirable that members of into a Committee on the Bill. the teaching staff proposing to do post- graduate studies in specified institutions Bill considered in Committee. of higher learning and students pro- (Mr Speaker in the Chair). posing to attend extra-mural classes, which do not lead to qualifications of Clauses 1 to 7 inclusive ordered to any kind but which are normally held stand part of the Bill. outside the normal teaching hours of Schedule ordered to stand part of that institution for the benefit of the the Bill. general public should be exempted from the provisions of this Act. Preamble ordered to stand part of the Bill. The Amendment to Section 41c seeks Bill reported without amendment; to exempt members of the teaching read the third time and passed. staff of the institutions of a higher 6861 22 MARCH 1966 6862 learning, who intend to do post- It is, therefore, considered desirable graduate work, and persons, who that punishment for persons convicted intend to attend extra-mural classes under Section 59 should be the death organised by such institutions, or such penalty in cases where the supplies in other persons as may be exempted by respect of which he is convicted consist the Minister from obtaining a certifi- of fire arms, ammunitions or explosives, cate of suitability as required by so that life imprisonment should only Section 41c of the Act. A new Sub- be restricted to cases where the supplies Section (6) is added to Section 41c in concerned are not fire arms, ammuni- order to make it clear that a student tions or explosives. The proviso to whose studies had been interrupted for Section 59 (3) and 60 as they stay now a year must obtain a certificate of have also given rise to some difficulties, suitability before he can resume his because as the law stands at the studies. moment, a person who has given voluntary statement to the police before Amendments to Section 59 are he is charged with or accused of required in order to restrict the punish- offences under Sections 59 and 60 ment of life imprisonment for convic- cannot be convicted. Thus, if a person tion under the Section to cases where makes a statement after his arrest, since the supplies in respect of which a it is made prior to his being charged, person is convicted does not consist of he cannot be convicted of the offence. fire arms, ammunitions and explo- In order to avoid this difficulty, it is sives, so that if it does consist of any desirable that the provisos to Section of these, the punishment should be 59 (3) and 60 should be amended so death. The proviso to Section 59 (3) that the person can escape conviction and 60 also require amendments so only if he gives a statement before his that immunity from convictions under arrest, so that if a statement is made these two sections should be restricted after his arrest though before he was only to cases where a person has made charged, he can still be convicted. a voluntary statement to the police prior to his arrest. Thus immunity from Sir, I beg to move that the Bill be convictions will not be available if the now read a second time. statement was made after his arrest Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Sir, I beg to though it was made prior to his being second the motion. charged or accused of an offences. Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, Amendments to Sections 59 and 60 Sir, I think that perhaps this is one of of the internal Security Act, 1960 the times when those who talk of arose from two appeals decided by the democracy and of freedom of the mind Federal Court. In these two appeals and of thought should rise to call for, two persons were convicted of having not the amendment as proposed by this fire arms, ammunitions and explosives Bill, but the removal of the whole of under their control contrary to Section Section 41c of the Internal Security 57 (1) (A) and (B) of the Internal Act, 1960. Security Act and as such were sentenced to death by the trial court Mr Speaker, Sir, if a person has sitting at Johore Bahru. Accepting the reached that stage of education and contention of the counsel for the appel- the maturity of mind that future lants, the Federal Court substituted University training or further Univer- these convictions with convictions sity training would be beneficial to under Section 59 (1) of the Act for him, surely he would have developed "Receiving Supplies" which expression the independence of mind and the according to the definition contained ability to analyse, which should enable in Section 2 includes ammunitions, him, or should allow him, the freedom explosives, fire arms and other articles. of deciding what is best for himself. As a result, both the appellants As Section 41 (c) stands today, as my escaped death penalty and were, Honourable Colleague from Batu has therefore, sentenced to life imprison- said, even he, if he wishes to go for ment in accordance with Section 59 (1). a further course of studies, would have 6863 22 MARCH 1966 6864 to apply to the Honourable Minister Yesterday, this House heard that of Home Affairs for a certificate of when the Honourable the Minister of suitability. The very fact that there has Education went to England and spoke been need for this amendment is a to the Malaysian students, the Malay- very clear admission of failure by the sian student leaders gave him the Government, and its unduly harsh impression that they were in support of stand on this issue. the Government's move to separate Singapore students from Malayan Mr Speaker, Sir, Section 2 (c) which students in England. My Honourable says "such other persons as the Colleague from Batu produced the Minister may, at his discretion exempt organ of the Forum of Malaysian and from the provisions of this section gives Singapore students, published in Lon- to the Minister an absolute discretion, don, called Suara Merdeka. There it and therefore gives him absolute power, was stated quite clearly that the Forum and therefore makes this essentially an and its organ was against this separa- arbitrary provision . How can we talk tion. The Honourable Minister of Edu- of democracy and democratic freedom, cation himself, however, assured the if a person who is going to University House that the organ was under has to provide himself with a certificate Singapore domination and therefore, of suitability. We are not even told did not rightly express the views of the what are the requirements of a certi- Malaysian students in London whom ficate of suitability, but merely that a he met. Mr Speaker, certificate of suitability is necessary Sir, something else may. be true, because these students before a person can go on to Univer- sity. We may be assured in this House have had for years realised that they that the discretion will be exercised have to have a certificate of suitability, with the greatest caution and with the they ay have developed a certain kind greatest regard to individual freedom, of psychology which is that "if any we may even be assured in this House Honourable Minister should come to us, that the Minister himself will personally we should not show that we are persons look into every case where a person to whom certificates of suitability should has not been granted a certificate of never have been issued." And this suitability who wishes to go on to accounts, perhaps, for the timidity that University or wishes to change from I sometimes find in young people, who discipline to discipline but that is not are otherwise endowed with great intel- the point. The point is the principle of ligence and independence of mind it all. Should, for example a person, students who speak most sensibly and who has obtained the Higher School intelligently on Economics, on History, Certificate obtain a certificate of suita- Geography, Science, languages , Litera- bility, or should a person , who is doing ture-who suddenly become dumb and a course for his doctorate whose studies confounded when it comes to matters of have been interrupted for one year, politics political theory and political re-apply for a certificate of suitability? conscience. This, Mr Speaker, Sir, is, Under Section 2 (b) the Government indeed a cancer which does stultify intends to insert a new sub-section growth of independence of mind of our which says "Nothing in this section young Malaysian people. Perhaps, this shall exempt from the provisions of is why some teachers from foreign insti- this section any student whose studies tutions have expressed surprise that have been interrupted for a period of Malaysian students sometimes seem so one year on disciplinary or other willing to accept authority even though grounds, notwithstanding that such the authority may be wrong. student has previously been admitted or that his name still remains in the As I have said, Mr Speaker, Sir, this register of such institution". In other amendment is not sufficient but should words if a student whose studies have have sought to repeal the whole of been interrupted on any ground what- Section 41 (c) of the Internal Security soever, even apart from disciplinary Act. I understand-I may be wrong ground, will have to apply for a that no other country claiming to be a certificate of suitability. democracy has this kind of provision, 6865 22 MARCH 1966 6866 except for Malaysia and Singapore, Dato' Dr Ismail : Sir, on a point of whose Government recently deprived a order -SO. 36 (1) . . . . (Pause). person of his scholarship purely because he went to Africa and toured Africa Dr Tan Chee Khoon : I would like to under the auspices of the Malaysian say to the Minister, Mr Speaker, Sir, Government. This is a student from that I am not going, to go on a long the University of Singapore. harangue on the Internal Security Act.
Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to the Dato' Dr Ismail: I thought I was other sections of the Internal Security quite generous, I was looking at my Act, I should just like to state that the time, because I thought he was making Government should consider that in the a preface! Penal Code there are provisions for Dr Tan Chee Khoon I was just arrest and punishment for acts against the State, for acts against the Agong making a preface. (Laughter). and for treason. There seems to be very Dato' Dr Ismail: Don't make too little difference between the provisions long a preface! under the Internal Security Act and the provisions under the Penal Code, except Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, before the that in the Penal Code a person must Honourable Minister interrupted me, be tried by jury and the ordinary laws I was saying that all the loopholes had of confession apply. The provisions of been plugged up and now today we see the Internal Security Acts has, to a many more loopholes, and I think I am very, very large extent, replaced certain entitled to speak on the Internal sections of our Penal Code, and it has Security Act, 1960, because this Bill replaced it in a very unfortunate seeks to plug more of the loopholes manner, in that it allows for trials with- embodies in the Internal Security Act, out jury in such instances. We all know sections 59 and 60 if the Minister that a crime against the State carries wants to quote Standing Orders for- with it the threat of arrest and punish- bidding me to speak on the Internal ment, sometimes even extreme penalty Security Act, I do not see why. He is asked for. The only thing I would himself has talked about sections 59 like to point out here is that under the and 60, but I do not wish to burden Internal Security Act a person can be this House with the stand of my Party tried by a judge sitting alone and this, on this matter. we feel, is something which we must abhor. Mr Speaker, Sir, I come specifically to section 41c of the Internal Security Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, Act, the amendment of which was Sir, I rise to declare that we in the passed by this House last year. Per- Labour Party are categorically against haps, like my colleague, the Member the Internal Security Act. This infernal for Dato' Kramat, may I present a and heinous instrument has been slightly academic angle. As I see it, enacted by the Alliance Government at there are lots of students in the gallery a time when the Emergency was and they are the persons, Mr Speaker, Sir, who will have to get this certificate supposed to be over. In 1960, after of suitability from the C.E.O. Now, twelve years of Emergency, the Alliance Mr Speaker, Sir, when this amendment Government declared to the whole was brought before the House last year, world that the Emergency was all over there was no doubt that students all that there was damai dan aman in this over the country, whether they were country. Then it promptly proceeds to in Singapore or in Kuala Lumpur embody all the provisions of the and I talk of University students Emergency Regulations which, during protested in no uncertain terms against the Emergency had to be enacted every the enactment of the Bill before the year, but now it is written into the House then, and this House was Statute Book ad infinitum and then flooded with telegrams from the more so all the loopholes .. . students not only from Singapore but 6867 22 MARCH 1966 6868
also from the University of Malaya. of Malaya. The other, for reasons of Since the passage of that Bill, the his own perhaps, he cannot afford to Honourabe Minister of Education will work as a tutor has to go out into this bear me out, time and again the cruel world and earn a living, but yet students have protested to him regard- by the nature of his work has registered ing this certificate of suitability, and himself for an M.A. The former, in an not only to him but to many other institution of higher learning, is Ministers who were brave enough to exempted from getting a certificate of venture to address University students suitability, the latter not being in an either in the University of Malaya or institution of higher learning, but in the University of Singapore. Mr having been accepted and registered for Speaker, Sir, as I have stated before, a higher degree, has either to get a this certificate of suitability seeks to letter of suitability or go hat in hand to produce in our higher institutions of the Minister of Home Affairs and say learning a second class university, a "Tolong-lah, beri saya surat itu". Where second class academic staff producing is the logic of this section 41c (a) that third class students. Is this the situation says that only people teaching in an that we want? Do we want to enchain institution of higher learning should be not only the present generation of exempted. I say that all those, who are students, sitting in the gallery, but also deemed fit by the institutions I listed generations of students yet unborn under 41c, should be exempted. with this certificate of suitability? Proviso (b) here says : "persons not Mr Speaker, Sir, in the few contacts being students already admitted, who that I have had with people from propose to attend extra-mural classes abroad, both locally and abroad, and organised by such institution". Now I 1 have just been abroad recently, they do not see how this clause (b) can help. were all appalled by this letter of suit- Personally, as we know that in Section ability, this infernal and heinous 41c amongst the institutions listed is Internal Security Act, and they held the University of Malaya, and it is true up their hands in horror and said, to say that of all the other institutions, "How on earth can any Government the Nanyang University, University of that professes to practice democracy Singapore, Ngee Yang University, the can ever think of such a heinous Act College of Agriculture, all these do not to enchain the minds of the students?" run, except for the University of Singa- Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, on the surface pore, extra-mural classes. Why then of it, this amendment that the Minister this one? Even, if it does, as I hope the has brought before this House, per- University of Malaya does, run extra- haps, he can claim that it is a move mural classes leading to an external liberalising section 41c of the Internal degree of the University of Malaya, Security Act. Now, let us see. He talks why should such people be exempted of members of the teaching staff and and not the people, who have graduated he says, "Well, you know, if he has a and who have worked outside the B.Sc. (lions) and now he wants to University leading to a higher degree come to M.Sc., and he is on the should not be exempted? teaching staff, well, he need not get this letter of suitability from either the Proviso (c), Mr Speaker, Sir, as my C.E.O. or from me as Minister of colleague, the Member for Dato Kramat Home Affairs". has pointed out, supposing I want to do an M.D. and it is not beyond my I fail to see the subtle difference capacity to do an M.D. I have to do between people working in a teaching two things : either I go and see the institution and those outside. Let me Chief Education Officer and get a letter give an example. Let us say, this year of suitability from him, although I two people have graduated with a First graduated from the University long ago Class B.A. Honours. One chooses to be before he did, or I have to go cap in a tutor in the University of Malaya hand, put on a broad smile like a going on to an M.A. in the University Cheshire cat and ask the Tuan Menteri, 6869 22 MARCH 1966 6870
"Can I have your permission to exempt As regards Clause 3, it seems to me me from this letter of suitability?". that the Government is seeking to Mr Speaker, Sir, you can see what an demand its pound of flesh; because of absurd position anyone who seeks to two adverse high court decisions, the improve himself academically is placed Government now seeks to plug all the in? The institutions which I have just loopholes. I think it is an accepted now mentioned, three of them are now axiom in law far better for 99 people in a foreign country namely Nanyang to go free than for one innocent person University, University of Singapore, to be convicted. This axiom probably is and Ngee Yang College. If you want to unknown to the Alliance Government. carry this to its logical conclusion, It wants to demand its pound of flesh; surely this amendment to the Internal perhaps its pint of blood from the Security Act, 1960, should seek to perhaps misguided persons, who are exclude these three institutions of higher alleged to have committed acts of learning from the provisions of the treason against the State. Internal Security Act, or is it that the Minister of Home Affairs wants to Then, there is this Clause 4 which spread his tentacles across the Cause- says that persons who confess to the way and, perhaps, cause a greater authorities before their arrest perhaps friction, or may be these two Govern- may be given privileged treatment. I ments are birds of a feather flocking do not know whether the Government together on the matter of Internal is trying to encourage people who, Security and on the question of perhaps, may have a brush with the fundamental liberties. law now falsely confesses or perhaps implicate lots of other people. It seems Mr Speaker, Sir, as to the new sub- to me that the Government is seeking section (6) here it states : to encourage such persons to exculpate "Nothing in this section shall exempt themselves by making false confessions from the provisions of this section any and implicating perhaps innocent student whose studies have been interrupted for a period of one year on disciplinary or people and then perhaps these innocent other grounds, notwithstanding that such people, may well swing as a result of student has previously been admitted or that such people making false confessions. his name still remains in the register of such institution." In conclusion, Mr Speaker, Sir, my Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, this is such an all-embracing clause that I shudder to Party, the Labour Party of Malaya, is think of the students in the University unilaterally against this amendment, for one reason or the other, not for and I call upon all those who sit on disciplinary if you say for disciplinary this side of the Opposition benches to cause, there may be some justice in it; say (Interruption). My party is totally but it says for any other grounds. against and unanimously against this Supposing a person falls sick for one amendment now before the House. I year, and is out of circulation in the call upon all those on this side of the University for one year, and now he Opposition benches, if they cherish wants to go back; he has already been what little fundamental liberties that cleared by the Chief Education Officer the Government has left for us, then and the Special Branch with a letter of they should all oppose this amendment suitability; and because he has fallen to the Internal Security Act, 1960. In sick and has been unable to attend the particular I ask the I.A.P. to state University courses for one year, he has clearly its stand on this matter. I, for got to go back and, perhaps, cap in one, will be very grateful if it states hand asks for another letter of suit- very clearly as to whether it opposes ability. I fail to see the logic of this this infernal and heinous Internal discrimination and this further hard- Security Act, or it supports the Internal ship imposed on they younger generation Security Act like its forbears, the P.A.P. of this country seeking, thirsting, for higher education. Sitting suspended at 12.00 p.m. 6871 22 MARCH 1966 6872
Sitting resumed at 12.20 p.m. not be' wrong for me to ask the Honour- able Minister, if possible, to tell us in (Mr Speaker in the Chair) which other part of the democratic world does any provisions exist similar THE INTERNAL SECURITY to the provisions in this Bill, requiring (AMENDMENT) BILL these certificates of suitability for educational purposes for the students Second Reading of a nation. I am of course aware that Debate resumed. it exists in Singapore, and leaving Singapore aside my question is con- Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (Ipoh): fined to the Honourable Minister to the Mr Speaker, Sir, the Peoples' Progres- other parts of the world. sive Party of Malaya is categorically against the Internal Security Act as it Mr Speaker, Sir, students are no stands now. (Dr Tan Chee Khoon: fools---some of them, many of them, a Hear, Hear). We realise that in many large number of them, are perhaps parts of the world there are laws wiser than many of us, who sit in this similar in nature to the Internal House and provisions of this nature, Security Act, but we also realise and when they grow up, will remain in their appreciate that in those democratic minds, will play on their minds, and countries there are provisions in their the day will come when the students Security Acts -I use the phrase "Inter- of Malaysia will have their revenge for nal Security Act" for convenience these very abhorrent provisions, which for the protection of the fundamental are in the Internal Security Act to the rights and liberties of the subjects of detriment of their future. Beyond that the States of those countries. I do not wish to say anything, because much has already been said by the two In the Internal Security Act of Honourable Members who spoke Malaysia, there is no such protection previously. for the' individual rights and liberties Now, with regard to the proposed of the subjects; and it is for that pur- amendments on what I call confessions pose that we state categorically that or statements to the Police, one thing we are against they Internal Security is clear : laws are made in countries, Act as it now stands. We have said not to plug or not to defeat the ends that, perhaps, at every session of of justice, but amendments are made Parliament where the opportunity to in laws where amendments are just and speak on the Internal Security Act has proper and in the interest of the people arisen; and at every session of this and in keeping with the fundamental House we of the P.P.P. have asked for liberties and rights of the subjects. Just the inclusion of those safeguards in the because in two decisions the Internal Internal Security Act. Security Act, particularly the section Now, an Internal Security Act, and mentioned, Section 59, was interpreted amendment to the Internal Security by the court perhaps by the highest Act, must only exist in a country if court in the land in a certain manner such an Act is, in fact, necessary for where death penalty could not be a country. imposed does not mean that this House should amend it for death penalty to Now, having made those comments be imposed : nor should it mean that clear, and our stand clear, on the this House should introduce amend- Internal Security Act as it now stands, ments to induce persons to make state- I will go further and speak on the pro- ment or confession to the Police before posed amendments to this Bill. We their arrest merely to escape the death support in full and in tow all that has penalty, because the danger--and the been said by the Honourable Member greatest danger in such an amendment for Dato Kramat and the Honourable is the possibility of a false statement Member for Batu with regard to these being made, as mentioned by my certificates of fitness or certificates of Honourable: friend from Batu, a false suitability required; and I think it will statement being made implicating 6873 22 MARCH 1966 6874 innocent persons merely to escape the the free world. For those reasons I lawful punishment which the maker of and my Party must strongly associate that statement or confession should ourselves with members from the suffer. Labour Party and condemn the amend- ments put forward before this House. Mr Speaker, Sir, it is common knowledge-I say that it is so common Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr knowledge that all Members of this Speaker, Sir, I think it was Lenin who House should know it that there are once described George Bernard Shaw cases where the Police have interro- as a good man fallen among Fabians gated men throughout the night, or and I, Sir, would like to take up throughout the larger portion of the Lenin's description of George Bernard night, and throughout the early hours Shaw for the Honourable Member for of the morning without interval, Batu. He is a good man fallen in the without a break. Sometimes they have wrong company. Sir, I think the whole been offered inducements in the form of of Malaysia knows, the whole of exceptionally good food, or exceptional Malaysia including the Honourable chances to visit relatives, or allow Minister for Home Affairs knows, that relatives to visit them in prison, all my colleagues and I in the D.A.P. are for the purpose of getting confessions no lovers of the Alliance Party and and statements. If this amendment Government. But I think, Sir, at the comes through, there is no doubt what- same time, the whole of Malaysia soever that Police officers and here I knows that my colleagues and I in make it clear that I do not accuse all the D.A.P. are no lovers either of the Police officers, but there are large enemies of Malaysia. Sir, once that is numbers of them who will abuse the appreciated, our stand on all matters provisions of the amendments proposed can be seen in their logical context and in the Internal Security Act for pur- frame-work as ensuing from a con- poses which, I say, would not be law- sistent and logical position. f ul, or proper, or just in the interest of this nation. Sir, the Honourable Member for Batu for whom, personally, I have a Sir, it is, I think, wrong on principle high regard has invited me to state my to introduce these amendments, just stand on the Internal Security Act. I because, when the Internal Security would like to say, Sir, that my stand Act was passed, the courts have con- on the Internal Security Act is what strued it in a way and in a proper way it has always been. But to throw the and in an accepted way. It is wrong ball into the other court, I would like of any elected body, our House of to ask not he himself but I would like Representatives, to try to defeat the to ask..... ends of justice by amendments of plugging up holes here and plugging Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, up holes there. Then, it no longer Sir, may I ask the Honourable Mem- becomes a democracy; then it no ber for Bungsar being a very simple longer exists a democratic form minded person, if he can explain very of Government, but it becomes a briefly whether he does support the dictatorial form of Government; and amendments before the House, or he whilst I am not accusing this Govern- does not support the amendments. ment of being hundred per cent dicta- torial, I do say that the amendments of Mr Speaker: He is coming to that. this nature give an indication to the nation as a whole that this Parliament, Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr or this House of Representatives, is Speaker, Sir, with his usual aptitude, prepared to go to the extent of being he would like to make my speech for dictatorial merely to see that what they me but with his permission I would want done will be done, whether it like to make my speech myself. I say is an accepted practice in democratic that I am throwing the ball into his countries in other parts of the world, court and to ask "What is the stand in the legal world of other parts of of the Labour Party?" I know what its 6875 22 MARCH 1966 6876
stand is with regard to the Internal of Malaya was a text book, say, pre- Security Act, but what is their stand in pared by the Honourable Assistant regard to the people who come into Minister for Finance, Dr Ng Kam Poh. this country, cross over the borders of If that happens we really would be in Sarawak and Sabah , and explode a sad situation, but not so as long as bombs in our country ? What is the in our University there is the freedom stand of the Labour Party towards the to instruct and to teach, without a enemies of Malaysia , to the external Stalin sitting at your back, telling you and the internal enemies of Malaysia? how to interpret Shakespheare, how to My stand , Sir, and that of my interpret economic theory, how to colleagues, has been stated time and interpret educational theory. I disagree again in this House . I need only go to very much with the Honourable the the 13th July, 1964, when the amend- Minister for Education , but so far he ment to the Internal Security Act, has not been found telling the professor introducing the suitability certificate of education in the University that the was first introduced . I said then that only authoritative dissertation on the no one will quarrel with the proposi- theory and practice of education would tion that the preservation of national be one written by him . If that ever security is of paramount concern happens, Sir, then I would say all inevitably the paramount concern of liberals and all democratic minded any Government whether democratic persons have the right to stand up and or totalitarian and it so happens that shout, and shout with a view to bring- in the process of protecting national ing the whole structure down but security several Governments have to that, Sir, has not happened. resort to obnoxious measures. Coming, in particular , to the suitabi- Sir, let us look at this matter in lity certificate, Sir, I described it last perspective. Malaysia and Singapore year as an obnoxious necessity and for that matter in this region , and I am it is so, and I also pointed out, Sir, not an apologist for the Alliance that criticism of the Bill covered a Government and its policy , Sir, but wide spectrum of opinions , ranging as a lover of the Malaysian people from the arguments of those who and nation , and as somebody who would oppose anything which was would like to see this nation retain done to safeguard internal security its integrity , its territorial integrity, the friends of the external enemies of I would say that the paramount con- this nation; nothing would be right cern of this country must be to guard by them, but I concentrated on, Sir, its security. The manner in which the and I quote: measures, the Internal Security "responsible Members of the Opposition measures are implemented may of must feel obliged to bring to the attention course be defective as has been of leaders of Government the genuine fears, suggested by the Honourable Member real, honest and sincere fears , that exist among large sections of the people , that the for Ipoh that adequate safeguards Bill if passed into law may conceivably might not exist and so on. Sir, a lend itself to abuse. I might enumerate some number of things have been said. Let of the genuine fears which have been us talk about freedom , academic expressed to me personally by several res- ponsible and patriotic citizens of Malaysia. freedom and so forth. Sir, I remember, Parents , especially, are genuinely concerned I said last year that those who prate as to what it would mean in terms of the about academic freedom do not know educational future of their children. I am what they are talking about. I said stating their fears . . . . and I hope that the Government will take into serious con- that I would be grievously disturbed sideration this general background of if, for instance , it was held that the opinion against which this Bill will be only text book on the authoritative enacted." interpretation of Shakespeare was a "Sir, the fear exists that in the name of text book written, say, by the Honour- national security, the law may be used able Member for Johore Tenggara, or against patriotic citizens of the State, for no other reason than that they may have, if the only text book on Economics for a variety of reasons, incurred the dis- permitted to be read in the University pleasure of the powers-that-be. And the 6877 22 MARCH 1966 6878 argument goes, Sir, that it would be the Sir. How many students have so far simplest thing in the world for the Govern- been denied suitability certificates? ment to disallow, by the stroke of a pen, educational opportunities in our universities Who took the decision and on what on grounds of narrow, petty, non-security grounds were these certificates denied? considerations. In that event, which I hope And I hope that the Minister when is extremely unlikely, democratic liberties justifying the necessity for this amend- would suffer serious harm in the name of national security. The paradoxical conse- ment will be able to assure the country quence, Sir, would be that in seeking to at large that the powers, which the protect our national security and democratic Government have vested in themselves, way of life, we would have succeeded in are being exercised with intelligence, shaping ourselves in the image of our totali- tarian enemies. One question may be as to and with a very high degree of public how far it is really possible to fight the responsibility. And if that can be done, enemies of democracy by using indiscrimi- Sir, I say the Government can go a nately weapons from the totalitarian very long way indeed towards satisfy- armoury. These are the arguments which exist in the minds of several decent, honest ing the people of this country. That, citizens of this country which will have to Sir, in a nutshell is the attitude of the be met by this Government." D.A.P. to the Internal Security Act. Sir, I commend to the Government I must express my very real gratitude the same considerations which I to the Honourable Member for Batu advanced last year--considerations of for asking me that question and I anxiety which genuinely exists in the repeat that my answer essentially is: minds of numerous parents ever since We are lovers of the Malaysian nation. Sir, this Bill was enacted. I would Nobody will take us as lovers of the want the Honourable Minister to Alliance Government; and nobody satisfy me on this score, how many will take us as lovers of the enemies students have been denied suitability of the Malaysian nation. And, Sir, he certificates and on what grounds; who will have an opportunity, not merely took the decision; have those who, himself but, all the Members of his considered the suitability or otherwise Party, who go about painting glory of a student who applied for a certifi- slogans like "blood-for-blood" and so cate have they adopted a flexible and forth, to assure this House and this intelligent attitude? Sir, we are all country that they take as categorical aware of the fact that the young people a stand against the internal and exter- in the University are enthusiastic and nal enemies of Malaysia as they take radical; and I believe several Honour- against the Internal Security Act. able Members sitting on the Govern- Then I would respect their intellectual ment benches have probably gone honesty. Otherwise stop talking through that phase themselves. If I am rubbish! not mistaken the Honourable Minister Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of for Home Affairs himself had radical clarification, Mr Speaker Sir. Not enthusiasms, when he went to college being trained in communism, or not and university; and on this basis are being an ex-communist, I naturally am we to place a premium and penalise at a disadvantage in dialectics of this people, young students, simply because nature. I have asked him a very simple they have the natural exuberance, question. Is the D.A.P. against the glandular exuberance of youth. I Internal Security Act in its present would like to know how this has been form or not? I regret that despite all implemented. If the Government can the verbiage and verbal diarrhoea, I assure us that in the implementation have not got an answer. All that we of the provisions of this Enactment it have got is that those who are for the has been flexible, intelligent, then the State, state their stand. On behalf of Government would go a very long way the Labour Party of Malaya, I wish towards satisfying, not possibly the to state our stand. We are against any criticisms of people who are not inter- enemy of Malaya. (Interruption). ested in Malaysian security in any case, but to satisfy the genuine fears Mr Speaker: I would point out to of large numbers of parents in this the Honourable Member that he is not country. If I may repeat the questions, allowed to make a second speech. 6879 22 MARCH 1966 6880
Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, higher learning , and that is the very Sir, I do not think it was a speech. It place where we hope to cultivate was just a clarification. I thought liberal thoughts. So, if we should the language from the back was rather assume the attitude that students have abusive when he was trying to explain radical views, or liberal views, which it. As far as I am concerned it was seem not to coincide with the views just verbosity. held by the Government of the day, Enche' Stephen Yong Kuet Tze and that they should be deprived of (Sarawak) : Mr Speaker, Sir, this such an opportunity, then I think we amendment to the Internal Security are creating quite a number of Act is to us, in the S.U.P.P., frustrated people not only of these as yet a further bureaucratic tentacle. particular persons, or students, who These tentacles that are already have been denied this opportunity, but there, we feel, are interfering also the parents and others connected and destroying what we all have set with them. out to achieve a democratic society for this nation . While saying so, Mr I refer particularly, Sir, to sub- Speaker, Sir, we , in the S.U.P.P., also section (6) and that is in regard to realise that there is a need for students, who have been interrupted preservation of national security and for a period of one year on disciplinary integrity, but what we feel is that or other grounds. Surely, we can say although all these must be done in that students interrupting their studies the context of democracy , we fear that on disciplinary grounds or grounds with the overwhelming majority of connected with discipline should be the Alliance, they have in fact lost considered whether they should be sight of this very important aspect, allowed to continue their studies but and that is they feel that they should why "other grounds"? Here, Sir, be given all powers. Thereby in my again , I think, is an illustration of the submission, Sir, in some way destroy- bureaucratic attitude , because we know ing the very institution that we all all bureaucrats like to have things hope to establish. Sir, we have tidy, and to have as much power as criticised the Certificate of Suitability they could. That is the very point and I think this criticism has been which has been made earlier on-that borne out by events that it is an such power is open to abuses. If any obnoxious thing to have. We were criticism were made about certain told the necessity for such a Certificate actions, they say, "Well, the Parlia- of Suitability, but what results has it ment has passed the law". "Any other achieved? To us , the result that has grounds" includes any other ground, been achieved is no more than which may not in any way be preventing very good material in the connected with discipline at all. Sir, persons of young, enthusiastic, and I hope very much that the intention radical type of students , from having of this amendment is not to create a the opportunity of going to the seats robot or simply create one obedient of higher learning or institutions, lot of our students , because, Sir, I colleges, universities, and the like. do not think it is possible , because Sir, we know that in this country the more one does that, reaction might we are sadly lacking in professional set in and the more violent this lot people, people with special training, will become . Although, as the Honour- and we have been told that we have able Member for Bungsar has said, no to enlist the help of a lot of expatriate apparent steps have been taken to officers to man our services in all interfere with the administration of the fields. This requirement for Certificate University in the country, how can a of Suitability, to my mind, would in first class institution , the University of some way deny our future leaders the Malaya, or any institution of higher opportunity of being trained , or having learning, train or give ideas and know- the opportunity of being trained, in ledge to people , to the students who higher institution . We know, Sir, the are not of its first grade? I am not purpose of having an institution of saying, Sir, that the students, who 6881 22 MARCH 1966 6882 cannot obtain Certificates of Suitabi- to face the supreme penalty, i.e. death. lity are first class it does not follow. Of course, if one man is dead, he However, it is likely that students in could never be brought back to life the secondary schools , who are active again even though in actual fact he in extra-mural activities and, perhaps, was innocent. Therefore, Sir, there very interested in politics, could be in are degrees of gravity, even though it the eyes of the Police and the Special is a very grave crime to be found in Branch undesirable persons , though possession of firearms and explosives these are the people , Sir, who could without lawful excuse. It is so different have been the best materials that this between a man who is found with one country needs people who are inter- bullet and a man found with two sub- ested in politics and people who are machine guns with all the ammunition interested in civic responsibilities in the world. That, of course, is a while those who are not interested matter of degree, punishment for naturally would be able to get their which should be left to the Court, Certificates of Suitability without any which will be the best judge in my question. Therefore, I think the view to pass the proper sentence. Honourable Member for Bungsar has a valid point, that is to say, how was Now, Sir, this Bill seeks to amend the machinery administered about the Internal Security Act. In principle, this. granting or denying of the Certi- our Party is opposed to this Internal ficates of Suitability? So far, we do not Security Act because, as I have already know. stated, so much in the Internal Security Act has already been taken Now, Sir, we come to clause (3), care of by other laws of the land. and that is the question of punishment The more that we try to make laws, in connection with a person convicted the more they can be abused. This for having supplies of firearms, would in my view be not conducive ammunition or explosives. That seems to the good government of this to be making a punishment more country. severe when a person is found or convicted of having been in possession Mr Speaker: The sitting is suspended of firearms, ammunition or explosives. till 4.00 p.m. today. Sir, a matter of punishment ought in Sitting suspended at 1.05 p.m. all events be left to the good sense of the judge of a court , who is trying Sitting resumed at 4.00 p.m. the case ; and if we make it mandatary for the judge to pass a certain sentence, (Mr Speaker in the Chair) in my view, Sir, it can be most damaging also, in my submission, to THE INTERNAL SECURITY the democratic principles . There are (AMENDMENT) BILL cases, Mr Speaker, Sir, which we have come across of someone being arrested Second Reading because he was found to have one Debate resumed. bullet or two bullets in the boot of his car, or in some places of his Dr Mahathir bin Mohannad (Kota Star vehicle, and he was charged in Court. Selatan): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like In one case, a man got off because the firstly to say that no one in his right witness for the prosecution gave senses likes the Internal Security Act. contradictory statements , and the It is, in fact, a negation of all the advocate was able to expose the wit- principles of democracy. But I think ness as being unreliable . But if the the members of the Opposition who accused's story was proved, that the spoke against the Internal Security Act: accused had a bullet in his car, and if are forgetting that we are not living in for some reason the witnesses for the normal times. They have, it seems to prosecution have made up the story me, forgotten that we are in fact still so well as not to be shaken by the at war; that there are people who are cross-examination of the advocates of being shot at and killed in Sarawak and the accused, well, that man will have in other parts of Malaysia. There are 6883 22 MARCH 1966 6884
still bombs which have been thrown and of the country, were trying to subjugate detonated in various parts of Malaysia. this country. We knew that at that time, Because of this situation, surely it is because we believe that when we have right for any country that wishes to our freedom we want this country to preserve its security to have an Act have a parliamentary system of demo- such as this so that in the long run cracy. We knew that, if we had our democracy itself will be preserved. independence aided by the Communists, in the end the Communists would As to the matter of amending the swallow us, and the independence that Internal Security Act, the Member for we had gained would be handed over Ipoh is concerned that this amendment to the Communists; and because we seems to have cropped up because have won the hearts and minds of the certain judges have made certain deci- people, we got that independence, with- sions in courts, and it seems to me he out the assistance of the Communists. is suggesting that if a law is ineffective, When the country gained independence, we should do nothing about amending we scrupulously observed the practice it. To me, a law is promulgated in. of parliamentary democracy. We order to attain a certain end; and if, scrupulously practise to guarantee the having made the law, we find that it is independence of the judiciary. At ineffective, I think the best thing we every election that was held after could do about it is to amend the law independence we guaranteed, and it is to make it effective. To castigate the borne out and tested and testified by Government simply because it has the people of the country, that the suggested amendments to the Internal elections that were held were not rigged, Security Act in order to make it effective and that they were genuine parlia- is, I think, somewhat unusual for a man, mentary elections. That, Sir, is our who is a lawyer. The laws of any record of our belief in parliamentary country have always been amended in democracy. During the time that we order to make them more effective, and had been in power, we had to face first these amendments are not carried out Communist subversion and then later once or twice, but many times. As soon on we had to face this confrontation as we find that a situation may arise from Indonesia. Because we had to face where the law becomes ineffective, it is this Communist subversion, we had to the duty of the Government to introduce pass the Internal Security Act in Parlia- Acts, or Amendments , to make the law ment. effective, and I can see no reason why anybody should oppose an amendment The Internal Security Act was opposed such as proposed here , which is intended by the Opposition Parties. Well, they merely to make the Internal Security had the right in Parliament, as Opposi- Act an effective instrument . In view of tion, to oppose any legislation by the this, Sir, I would certainly support the Government which they consider is not Government's introduction of the acceptable to their party. In order to Amendment to the Internal Security avoid the charge that we passed the Act. Thank you. Internal Security Act because of the sheer majority of the Alliance in Parlia- Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, the belief of ment, I accepted the challenge of one the Alliance Party in freedom and in member from the Socialist Front that parliamentary democracy in this country we made it a party platform. During is second to none. This is so, because, the last election, the Internal Security unlike the Opposition members, who Act was part of the Alliance platform. only profess in words, we have shown I went to the people to explain to them in deeds and in action that we believe clearly the necessity of having the in freedom and in parliamentary demo- Internal Security Act. I told the country cracy. This dated back to the days when that the Internal Security Act was and we fought for our independence. We is necessary, if we want to fight against fought not only against British colonia- this Communist subversion. I told them lism but also against Communists who, that it was not enough, if we believe in in the guise of fighting for the freedom parliamentary democracy, that we 6885 22 MARCH 1966 6886 should sit back and allow our country Security Act in respect of the Certificate to be subverted and, finally, to lose that of Suitability since its introduction in freedom, lose that parliamentary demo this House has never been abused. cracy that we love so much. I said that There was an outcry, when I moved for we wanted that arbitrary power. I told the passage of the legislation of this the people of the country that the Certificate of Suitability Bill in this Internal Security Act conferred arbitrary House, but almost two years have power to the Government, but I told elapsed and there is no outcry in the the people too that there was a difference country that we have abused that power. between the arbitrary power exercised Now, Sir, the Honourable Member for by a totalitarian regime and by the Bungsar has asked me, how many Government elected by the people. people have been refused the Certificate Arbitrary power is essential, but the of Suitability. I would like to inform people in any democratic country, the Honourable Member that since the naturally, would like to see that that introduction of legislation requiring arbitrary power is not abused by the students seeking admission into specified Government and that it is used for the Institutions of higher learning in purpose it was intended to be used Malaysia to obtain Certificate of Suit and that is against Communist subver ability in Octooer, 1964, only seven sion-and, lately, against any who students applying for admission into supported our enemy in this country. the Nanyang University, Singapore, and Now, the people endorsed our platform three students seeking admission into and we returned to this Parliament with the Ngee Ann College, Singapore, had a bigger majority than the previous one been refused Certificate of Suitability. (Applause). Now, Sir, I have said that Since the separation of Singapore from there is a great deal of difference Malaysia in August,1965, students between the arbitrary power used by seeking admission into institutions of the totalitarian regime and by a demo higher learning in Singapore have cratic government, because a democratic applied to the Singapore Government parliamentary government is answerable to obtain Certificate of Suitability. Now, to Parliament for any acts in the Sir, it can be seen that no one going country. into the University of Malaya has been refused a Certificate of Suitability. That Now, the very fact that the Opposi shows that this Government has not tion criticises the Internal Security Act abused that power. If, for example, we in this Chamber shows that the Internal want to intimidate the students, or we Security Act is being used in a demo are actin~ other than in the interests of cratic manner. I do not share the the secunty of this country, then many opposition view that the Internal students would have been refused the Security Act has been abused, because Certificate of Suitability. I gave an it has not been abused. In fact, if we assurance · in this House that if there are guilty, we have been guilty of taking is a border line case, that student will risks in the interest and security of this be allowed to enter the University. country. Honourable Members have lately seen how many Opposition Sir, the question of the Internal members had acted against the interests Security Act is important because it is and the security of the country, who a preventive measure-I repeat, it is a had acted prejudicial to the interests of preventive measure. One can argue that this country. They had been detained in a democratic country, there is no and we had assessed their cases; and need for such an Act, because we when we found that it is a reasonable should take remedial measures. Sir, as and a calculated risk to let them out, a docfor I believe that preventive we let them out, because we feel that measures are better than remedial it is better that we let these people out measures. We have seen, in a country so long as they are not a total danger not very far from us, the results of to the security of the country. waiting to take remedial measures Again, Honourable Members of this rather than preventive measures. Let us House will notice that this Internal look at Indonesia today, and other 6887 22 MARCH 1966 6888 countries : if they had taken the If they differ from students of other preventive measures that we have taken countries, it is because they are more here, they would not have landed courteous in asking their questions and themselves into the position they are in they are more gentlemanly in their today. It is a tribute to the Alliance behaviour. You cannot call these Government that, because of the qualities timidity. I would like to call Internal Security Act, this country has these qualities the qualities that always managed to progress. We have managed are a tribute to the people of this to make this country prosperous, country. We are noted for our because we have prevented the Com courtesy; we are noted for our respect munists, in spite of the help frorp. the for other people; and I am glad that Socialist Front, to destroy the country. the young in this country adhere to the Sir, let me go into the specific tradition of Malaysia being a courteous arguments put forward by Members of and respectable country. the Opposition against this amendment Then the Honourable Member for to the Internal Security Act. The Dato Kramat went on to say that it is Honourable Member for Dato Kramat, a denial of democratic practice that Sir. instead of behaving like a true people tried under the Internal parliamentarian and addressing himself Security Act are tried without jury, to the Speaker, chose to address to the even if the penalty is death. Now, Sir, gallery; he chose to address the young I have always told him-and he is not people, who are in the gallery; and he here to listen to my advice today-that appealed to the ability of their minds the Internal Security Act is different of the young people to discriminate from the ordinary laws of the country. between what is good and what is bad The Internal Security Act is allowed by for them. Sir. I would suggest that the Constitution. It is designed to fight when he appealed to the young people against subversion-it is not designed in the gallery there, he appealed not to against the ordinary law breakers of their minds but to their emotions, and the country. It is designed against those this is an insult to the young people of people, who try to subvert this country, this country, because I know the young against whom the ordinary laws of the would rather use their minds than country are powerless. their emotions, if they are properly Then, the Honourable Member for guided. Of course, if they are stimulated, if they are agitated, by Dato Kramat and also other Honour rabble-rousers, naturally, being young able Members have asked for the reason in respect of Section 2 (b) (6) people full of emotions, they can be which says that "Nothing in this section emotionally led. shall exempt from the provisions of Then, Sir, the Honourable Member this section any student whose studies for Dato Kramat had the audacity to have been interrupted for a period of say that our university students are one year on disciplinary or other timid compared to university students grounds, notwithstanding that such from other countries because of the student has previously been admitted Certificate of Suitability, and he quoted or that his name still remains in the about the students whom he had met in register of such institution." Sir, there London. Now, S'rr, the Internal Security is nothing much in this that is different Act was introduced only in 1964. Some than it was before, except here we want of the students whom he met in London to make it clear that the idea of giving had been there for more than two years, the Certificate of Suitability is to previous to 1904, and I would like to exclude those students whose intention disagree with the Honourable Member. to join the universities, or other higher I do not think our students are timid at institutes of learning, is for the purpose all, because whenever I met them in to subvert the students of that univer London they always asked me questions sity or other seats of higher learning. that all young people would like to ask. If, for example, the student, who has They show a great interest in this interrupted his study for a period of country, and they are not at all timid. one year, would like to continue, and 6889 22 MARCH 1966 6890 if he is not acting prejudicial to the to Communism and tries to get into our interest of the country, then he would University on the pretext of doing post- be automatically granted a Certificate graduate work, whereas in reality he is of Suitability. It is only against those trying to subvert the country, then, who purposely terminate their period naturally, instead of exempting him, he of academic study to undergo a will be put in detention. doctrination a course of subversion and then to enter the university to sub- I think, Sir, the reason why we want vert our students , that this proviso is to exempt members of the teaching staff intended . Of course, Honourable from having to apply for the Certificate Members from the Socialist Front if of Suitability is because there is a the Socialist Front is now dead, the clamour from the University that this Members of the Labour Party -they can class of people should be exempted. see nothing good that we do against Now, we have thought carefully over the Communists, because they have all this matter, and we feel that the tea- the time to court the Communists, ching staff of the University, being because without the Communist sup- surrounded by an academic atmos- port they are leaders without followers. phere, is less liable to be contaminated I have been trying to warn the Honour- by subversion than those who are able Members all the time that they outside. Now, we take, for example, will never succeed in this country, if the case of the Honourable Member they want to base their political future for Batu. He is a practising doctor; he on the support of the Communists and is a politician and a leader of the the pro-Communists. I shall not hesi- Socialist Front, or Labour Party. tate to take action against them. But Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Labour Party ! if they decide to form a genuine Labour Party in Malaya, we are Dato' Dr Ismail: Oh ! the Labour willing to help them we are willing to Party (Laughter), the deceased Socialist help them to get rid of these Com- Front. Now, he is a practising doctor; munists and pro-Communists from he is a politician; and his contem- their midst, because we want a truly porary, who graduated at the same time democratic Opposition party in this as he, is probably working as a country. research worker in the University. Now that friend of his being, of course, all Then Sir, the Honourable Member the time in the University, interested in for Batu queried the provision which research, away from politics, away exempts members of the teaching staff from meeting patients every day, of universities, or other higher seats of always engrossed in academic work learning, from getting Certificates of well, he is less liable or the chances of Suitability, if they want to pursue a him being contaminated are less than post-graduate course. He gave an the Honourable Member. I do not say example, that if he and another doctor, that the Honourable Member is a who is in the staff of the University, Communist, but he must admit that his want to do post-graduate work, he will chances, unless he is strong-willed, have to ask for a Certificate of Suitabi- unless he is a laypreacher, for example, lity, whereas the other man has not he might well have been a Communist got to do so. Now, Sir, in this parti- by now. (Laughter). cular case, for example, at this period, at this moment, when I know that the Dr Tan Chee Khoon: For the Honourable Member for Batu is not a information of the Honourable Minister, subversive, I can exempt him under I am a prominent leader of my own Section 2 (c) where I am given the church, Mr Speaker, Sir. (Laughter). power, which says, "Such other persons as the Minister may at his discretion Dato' Dr Ismail: I think that pro- exempt from the provisions of this bably saved him, Sir. (Laughter). I section". Of course, if later on he keeps think that is a better analogy than the on flirting with the Communists and one that he posed. Then, he says that the pro-Communists and is converted it is better to let 99 guilty persons to 6891 22 MARCH 1966 6892 be free than to let one innocent person Now, the Honourable Member was not to be convicted. Now, Sir, he is again here, and I am sorry that he objected using the argument against the ordinary to my indulging in this debate on the law-breaker of this country, against the, broad spectrum of the Internal Secu- ordinary laws of this country. I would rity Act, but I am only following his not like to have 99 Indonesians with practice. If he had stuck to the amend- guns and grenades running about in ment to the Bill, I would have answered this country, trying to assassinate him in three minutes, but he chose to probably the Honourable Member go and debate the wider aspect of the (Laughter) or Ministers. I would Internal Security Act; and if his speech rather like to have them inside the is going, to be recorded in the Hansard detention camps. I would rather have of this Parliament, then the Govern- them shot, rather than they be allowed ment has every right to answer every to be free in this country. This is the argument that the Honourable Member argument of people who believe about put forward in this House; otherwise, freedom and democracy in the vaccum, the Government will be accused of people who are oblivious to the threat losing by default. Now, Sir, for the to this country. I know and I can excuse, benefit of the Honourable Member for for example, the University students, Batu, I have said that it is no use to who can argue this from the academic believe in freedom, in parliamentary angle, who can only see from the prin- democracy, if you are not prepared to ciples of freedom; but what I cannot see fight for that freedom, and prepared to why Honourable Members themselves, defend that parliamentary democracy. who are practising politicians, who see that this country is being subverted, Now, Sir, the Honourable Member still arguing in favour of these Com- for Ipoh he is not here also said munists and these Indonesian saboteurs that he opposed this Internal Security being let free in this country. They Act. That is his right as an Opposi- have not said anything against the tion leader and of course, nobody Indonesian saboteurs, against the Com- takes any notice of him, because after munists, in this country. (AN HONOUR- every election the representatives of the ABLE MEMBER : Hear, hear). All that P.P.P. are getting smaller and smaller they do is to ask for freedom for these in this House. So, if it gives him people, freedom for these people to satisfaction to voice his dissenting subvert this country. voice as an Opposition leader, he is entitled to it. Now, he admitted that Dr Tan Chee Khoon: On a point of there are similar laws but, he said, that clarification, Mr Speaker, Sir, this Bill there are safeguards. Now, Sir, it is no does not deal with the Indonesians, use comparing the laws of this country and if I had spoken about the Indone- with the laws of another country, if sians, the first chap to jump up and the conditions are dissimilar. The fact ask you to rule. me out of order would that other countries have similar laws be the Honourable Minister. to fight against subversion is a Mr Speaker, Sir, for the benefit of principle the others are matters of the Minister concerned, since he has detail. Now, subversion in this country talked about students and the like, I may be different from the subversion think all Members of Parliament have in India and we have to have provisions received an Express Letter from the in our Internal Security Act different National Union of Malaysian Stu- from the ones in India. The very fact dents Persatuan Kebangsaan Pelajar2 is that if he would admit that he Malaysia-and this is the voice of the accepted the principle, that the Internal students which, I think, is placed on Security Act is necessary, then we do the table of all of us. not differ very much, but the fact remains that he said that he opposed the Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I did not say principle of the Internal Security Act. that the students have no right to Then why bother about drawing the oppose this Bill, but it is one thing to similarity of the two countries of this oppose and another thing to decide. country and another country? 6893 22 MARCH 1966 6894
Then, Sir, he asks which part of the amendment to this House, we are democratic world has an identical going to do justice to the people of this legislation to that we have here. Why country against these people who are is it necessary to have identical legis- acting against the security of this lation if the principle is the same? country. Because subversion varies from country to country that much you I have answered the Honourable can give to the Communists, and that Member for Bungsar about how many is why the Communist is a worthy people have been refused the Certifi- adversary because he is very resilient. cate of Suitability, and the only other answer that I have to give him is in Sir, I cannot let this debate pass respect of, who decides these refusals without answering one important and on what ground. Now, Sir, I think observation that he made in respect of he will remember that when I intro- the amendment to Section 59 of the duced the Internal Security Act, 1964, Principal Act i.e., the punishment is I assured this House that the Chief death in cases where the supplies in Education Officer, or the Director of respect of which he is convicted Education, as the case may be, to consists of fire-arms, ammunition or whom a student applies for a Certifi- explosives, or life imprisonment in cate of Suitability shall issue the other cases. Now, Sir, he says that we required Certificate, unless, after brought this amendment to this House making the necessary enquiries from to defeat justice. Sir, an Honourable the security authorities, he has reason- Member on this side of the House, the able grounds to believe that the appli- Member for Kota Star, has said that cant, if admitted to the said institution, there is nothing wrong in bringing would promote, or is likely to promote, amendments to Parliament for any or otherwise participate in actions prejudicial to the interest or the law in the country, if we find that that security of the country. law is defective. Now, Sir, the fact remains that when we saw the two The Honourable Member, Enche' cases I have quoted that the present Stephen Yong, from Sarawak made law would defeat the purpose which the highly exaggerated accusation that the Government intended that is, this Certificate of Suitability would for these people who carried supplies prevent students from joining the consisting of firearms, ammunitions or University. As I told this House, I explosives, in respect of which they think, before he came in, that as far were convicted, and we wanted the as the University of Malaya is con- punishment for such crimes to be death cerned no one has been refused a but in fact this was not so we wanted Certificate of Suitability. So, it cannot this amendment, and that is why we be said that this Certificate of Suit- brought this amendment to this House. ability prevents students from joining It is not a question of trying to defeat the University. It may be that those justice. In fact, by bringing this amend- people, maybe his friends, are not ment to this House, we are really allowed to enter the University be- bringing justice to this country. I do cause they have not got the necessary not see why these people, who carried qualifications. supplies, which consist of arms, ammunitions or explosives should not Enche' Stephen Yong Kuet Tze: On be punished with a death sentence and a point of personal clarification, Sir, be allowed to escape only with a life I have no friends among those people. sentence, because they are a real menace to this country, and they Dato' Dr Ismail : Sir, I am glad that deserve the death sentence. It was he made that statement. I wish he because of a defect in the former would match those words with deeds. drafting that we could not mete out He mentioned that we should encour- justice to these people. In fact, these age people to enter University so that people were very lucky to escape the we have more qualified people in the death sentence. By bringing this country. Sir, I would rather not have 6895 22 MARCH 1966 6896
qualified people in this country whose section (6) this is from the Honour- aim is to subvert this country. I would able Enche' Stephen Yong about the rather do without that type of qualified reason that these people, who have to people. We do not want qualified interrupt their study for one year, people in this country to just wreck having to ask for a new Certificate of our belief in parliamentary democracy; Suitability. I think he was not in this we do not want the Communists in House when I made my answer. I this country, who try to destroy our said that this is necessary, because it parliamentary democracy; we would may be that during that period of one rather not have that kind of qualified year, while the student is away from people. What we want is genuine the university, he may go out specially democratic qualified people in this to be indoctrinated, or to take a course country. We want many of that kind in subversion; or he may for that one of people in this country. Then, he year period join the Labour Party and said that this Certificate of Suitability given the opportunity to associate with would deny this country of its future the Communists and the pro-Com- leaders. I am glad, Sir, if that is true, nists in that party, and if that is so, because this Certificate of Suitability it is quite dangerous to allow him to would deny this country the future go back and to propagate the Com- communist leaders, and if this Certifi- munist doctrine, or trying to subvert cate would achieve that object, then, the other students in the university. I am indeed a very happy man. Sir, finally, I would like to wind up Enche' Stephen Yong Kuet Tze: Is by quoting the very sentence with the Minister suggesting that Commu- which I began my reply, i,.e., our nism can be kept out only by this belief in freedom and parliamentary Certificate of Suitability? democracy is second to none and this has been borne out by our record, not Dr Tan Chee Khoon : On a point of just by a profession of words but by clarification, is the Minister aware that our action in words and deeds. We most Communist leaders the world have believed and we have practised over are not university trained? They the independence of the judiciary in are trained in the hard school of life this country; we have not rigged the outside the university. elections, and every political party is given every chance to win the hearts Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, the Honourable and minds of the people of this Member for Batu had better argue with country. (Applause). Enche' Stephen Yong with regard to this. (Laughter). What I am doing,, Sir, Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: On a point is replying to Mr Stephen Yong's of clarification, Sir, the Minister in- observation, in which he said that formed the House in answer to a because of the Certificate of Suitability question I put that, since the passage this country is denied of its future of this law, no student entering the leaders meaning that these people University of Malaya has in fact been because of the Certificate of Suitability denied a Suitability Certificate. So, Sir, are not allowed to enter the university, we have a law which the Government and so they cannot be leaders in this has not found it necessary to enforce. country. Sir, let. me repeat it very Could we have an assurance from the slowly now. If these Certificates of Honourable Minister that if within the Suitability succeed in preventing the next few months, or years, no valid subversive elements from going to the reason is discovered to deny any university, subverting the university, student a Certificate of Suitability, and later becoming future leaders, then this law might as well be then I am indeed a very happy man. repealed?
Sir, I do not wish to waste much Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I say that the more time of the Honourable Mem- Internal Security Act is a preventive bers, but he asked about the new sub- measure. 6897 22 MARCH 1966 6898
Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: I am not house owner may be examined by such referring to the Internal Security Act an officer only at reasonable hours of but this specific provision relating to the day. This, it is considered, might Suitability Certificates. give rise to arguments when speed may be the decisive factor in obtaining Dato' Dr Ismail : I am coming to it. the information that is being sought. It is a preventive measure, one of the With a view to overcoming this diffi- preventive measures, against any culty, so that the aims of justice are subversive elements going into our not frustrated, it is felt that a Police University. For example, if there are Officer in the performance of his duties no subversive elements going there, under this Act should be empowered the law is there, it will not offend to have access to such a register at anybody, any law-abiding citizen, who all times and Clause 2 (a), therefore, wants to go to the University; in fact, seeks to remedy this defect. Honour- it gives added confidence to our able Members will note that apart students, who are going to the Uni- from a Police Officer, a Registration versity, that they will be free to study Officer, or a person duly authorised without any molestation from any by the latter, does not enjoy this right, subversive elements. That is my and he continues to exercise his justification for leaving this Internal function for the examination for hotel Security Act in respect of Certificate of or lodging house register as provided Suitability to be on the Statute Book. in the old legislation. Question put, and agreed to. The Explanatory Statement also gives detailed explanations as to the Bill accordingly read a second time necessity of having Clause 2 (b), (c) and committed to a Committee of the and (d) to the main Act and I there- whole House. fore, do not propose to enlarge upon House immediately resolved itself what has already been said therein. into a Committee on the Bill. Sir, I beg to move. Bill considered in Committee. The Minister of Transport (Dato' (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Haji Sardon): Sir, I beg to second the Clauses 1 to 4 inclusive ordered to motion. stand part of the Bill. Enche' Stephen Yong Kuet Tze: Mr Bill reported without amendment: Speaker, Sir, speaking on the amend- read the third time and passed. ment sought, I would refer particularly to the deletion of the words "at all THE REGISTRATION OF GUESTS reasonable hours". The original inten- (AMENDMENT) BILL tion, as I said, was that the register Second Reading of a hotel, one would imagine, would Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg be kept by a responsible person, who to move that a Bill entitled "The would make it available to the Police, Registration of Guests (Amendment) if the Police should call for it. Now, Bill of 1966" be read a second time. it seems that at any time the Police can call and ask the register to be Sir, the object of this Bill is to made available for inspection. Sir, amend Sections 3 (3) and 4 of the the explanation given by the Honour- Registration of Guests Act, 1965, able Minister did not specifically say which became law on 1st October, that the original provision was inade- 1965. Since the passing of the Regis- quate, and if there were no instances tration of Guests Act, it has been which really hampered the Police in found that Section 3 (3) thereof is of its work in the inspection of the a restrictive measure and is not register, then why should we give this conducive to speedy Police investiga- extra power to the Police? Then, tions. It imposes a condition that a there is a danger, Sir, of the keeper register kept by a hotel or lodging being put in a very invidious position 6899 22 MARCH 1966 6900
of having to make available for Sir, the object of this Bill is to inspection by the Police of the register amend the Minor Offences Ordinance, at any time; it may be two or three 1955, by inserting immediately after o'clock in the morning that a Police section 15 of the Ordinance a new Officer might want to have a look at sub-section 15A. The whole intention the register. Surely, a register is not of the amendment by the insertion of as important as the inspection of the new sub-section is for the purposes rooms, if there were any suspicion of controlling unauthorised persons about the inmates of any room. There- from interfering with members of the fore, in my view, this deletion of the public in their dealings with Govern- words "at all reasonable hours" is ment Departments by making it an unnecessary, because this provision of offence for anyone, who loiters for the "at all reasonable hours" is a sensible purpose of offering, or offers, or and workable one in all cases, and solicits to offer his services for profit unless the Minister can say in fact or reward. The Explanatory Statement there have been instances which make in the Bill itself gives further expla- the Police work difficult, then I think nation as to why these unauthorised there should not be any amendment persons should be controlled and I, to the original Act. therefore, do not propose to take time of the House by enlarging upon what Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, has already been stated therein. I think it is a matter of opinion. I say that it is inconvenient and unrea- Dato' Haji Sardon: Sir, I beg to sonable and he says that there have second. been no instances that this thing does not work well. But the very fact that Enche' Stephen Yong Kuet Tze: Mr I have asked for this Bill shows that Speaker, Sir, I notice that this Minor the present Act is not as suitable as Offences (Amendment) Bill, 1966, it should be, in that it places an would only affect the Minor Offences unnecessary restriction and makes it Ordinance, 1955, which is only difficult to conduct a proper Police applicable to the States of Malaya investigation. the Peninsular States. We have in Sarawak also a similar Minor Offences Question put, and agreed to. Ordinance which may have contained Bill accordingly read a second time quite a number of matters similar to and committed to a Committee of the the Minor Offences Ordinance here, whole House. and I would like to suggest to the Honourable Minister that this Ministry House immediately resolved itself should look into the question of con- into a Committee on the Bill. solidating this Ordinance -I believe a Bill considered in Committee. similar Ordinance also exists in Sabah so that provisions of this Bill (Mr Speaker in the Chair). might be incorporated in the Ordinance that are now extant in the Borneo Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand States. The question of touting and the part of the Bill. other matters mentioned in this Bill Bill reported without amendment: also are prevalent in the Borneo States read the third time and passed. and if this Bill is aimed at the mischief of touting and the like as explained THE MINOR OFFENCES in the Explanatory note, I think the (AMENDMENT) BILL Honourable Minister might look into the desirability of extending these Second Reading provisions to the Borneo States. Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill intituled "an Act Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: to amend the Minor Offences Ordi- Tuan Yang di-Pertuan, saya hendak nance, 1955" be now read a second mengambil bahagian sadikit berchakap time. berkenaan Bill mi. 6901 22 MARCH 1966 6902
Sa-betul-nya ada-lah tujuan Bill ini pinta-lah kapada pehak Keraj aan sen- sangat2-lah baik untok memelihara diri membuat keterangan yang chukup orange yang pergi ka-pejabat2 Kerajaan tentang bayaran, tentang jalan2 mengisi kerana apa2 juga pekerj aan yang ber- borang dan lain2 lagi. Ma`alum-lah sangkut-paut dengan pejabat2 Kera- orange kampong kita tidak mempunyai j aan. pelaj aran yang chukup, maka saya takut kalau sa-kira-nya apabila tidak Mengikut pendapat dan pengalaman Keraj aan memberi keterangan2 yang kita, bahawa selalu-lah orange ini di- chukup dan borang2 itu susah pula kerumuni oleh orange yang tidak mem- hendak di-dapati, maka perkara ini punyai sadikit pun perhubongan dan akan menj adi lebeh lagi susah ka-atas sangkut-pact dengan Jabatan yang ter- orange kampong. sebut dengan tujuan hendak menolong orang2 kampong ini untok melichinkan Dato' Haji Sardon: Tuan Yang di- atau pun menolong pekerj aan mereka. Pertua, Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kelantan Hilir apa yang di-chakap- Tetapi di-sini suka-lah saya hendak kan-nya itu memang betul terutama menarek perhatian Yang Berhormat sa-kali dalam Pej abat Kenderaan saya Menteri is-itu oleh kerana banyak dari- di-Batu Road, kalau tidak ada undang2 pada orange kampong kita yang tidak ini tidak boleh hendak buat apa2 tahu atoran2 yang bersangkut-paut di- kerana benda itu public. Jadi, kira atas satu2 pekerjaan, oleh kerana harap dengan ada-nya undang2 ini dan mereka itu tidak mempunyai pelaj aran, kita akan tengok lagi keadaan2 menjual maka sangat-lah susah bagi mereka itu borang ini. Saya, Kementerian di- menjalankan kewajipan mereka itu pejabat2 saya, sa-berapa boleh-lah, yang telah di-tetapkan oleh Keraj aan akan menyekat perkara ini dan akan tentang mengisi borang2 bahkan ada menolong orang ramai hendak me- kejadian2 is-itu apabila mereka masok nyenangkan mereka. Terutama sa-kali ka-satu pej abat Keraj aan, katakan-lah pehak Pendaf tare di-seluroh negeri Pejabat Pendaftaran, untok mendapat- memang telah di-beri waktu khas dari- kan borang, sangat-lah susah bagi pada pukul 3.00-4.30. Sa-siapa yang mereka untok mendapatkan borang. berkenaan berkehendakkan borang Kerana, sa-bagaimana yang kita dengar yang tidak tahu mengisi borang, hendak rayuan atau aduan daripada mereka bagitu bagini, memang di-benarkan itu, bahawa ada sa-tengah daripada berjumpa dengan Registrar dan kita pegawai2 di-dalam pejabat2 yang ter- juga dapat peruntokan sa-orang kerani sebut mempunyai perhubongan dengan boleh menolong orang yang tidak tahu orang yang di-luar ini yang konon menulis bagitu bagini kerana hendak hendak memberi pertolongan kapada mengelakkan daripada apa yang di- orang kampong kita. Jadi selalu-nya sebut oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari- orange yang hendak menchuba me- pada Hilir Perak, memang kita tidak nolong orange kampong kita di-dalam bersetuju dan ini-lah chara hendak segi pendaftaran dan lain2 lagi, selalu menghapuskan. Terima kaseh. orange ini mempunyai borang2 di- dalam tangan mereka itu, jadi ter- Enche' Hussein bin To' Muda Hassan paksa-lah orange kampong pergi ka- (Raub): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya pada orange itu, maka orange ini-lah suka hendak bertanya kapada Yang akan meminta atau meletakkan Berhormat Menteri, ada-kah termasok, bayaran katakan-lah $5 atau $10 jika sa-saorang yang kita kata tadi dia ada bermacham2. suka pergi kapada tiap2 pejabat meng- ambil segala ma`lumat2 berkenaan Oleh sebab yang demikian untok dengan kelemahan sa-sabuah pejabat mengatasi perkara ini, saya sa-bagai- dan di-beri-nya ma`lumat itu kapada mana permulaan perbicharaan saya Parti Pembangkang dan di-kemuka- tadi, saya telah kata bahawa tujuan kan-nya ka-dalam Dewan ini, ada-kah Rang Undang2 ini sangat baik untok itu menjadi kesalahan juga? menyekat orange ini daripada meng- hisap darah atau pun menchari nafkah Dato' Dr Ismail: First of all I would di-atas orange kampong, to tapi saya like to thank Mr Stephen Yong from 6903 22 MARCH 1966 6904
Sarawak for his constructive sugges- tiap2 pejabat di-ambil-lah ma`lumat tion, which I will willingly explore tanah lambat di-benarkan atau pun and, if possible, I will try to do as he hal perkara yang lain di-beri kapada wishes. Parti Pembangkang. Dalam Parlimen, Ahli itu pun kemukakan-lah dalam Berkenaan dengan tegoran daripada Dewan ini dan menudoh-lah pejabat Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kelantan itu, pejabat ini. Jadi, orang yang sa- Hilir, nampak-nya perkara yang ber- macham itu apa hendak kita hukum- laku ini di-Kelantan sahaj a, sebab apa kan? Orang yang suka menchari salah Ahli2 Yang lain tidak ada. Barangkali, untok bahan Parti Pembangkang boleh jadi, Ahli2 Yang Berhormat di- menentang, menegor, di-dalam Dewan Kelantan tidak menjalankan kerja. ini. Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Dato' Dr Ismail: Tuan Yang di- Tuan Yang di-Pertua, untok pene- Pertua, itu ta' payah saya jawab-lah. rangan, tadi ini baharu sahaja Yang Question put, and agreed to. Berhor. mat Menteri Pengangkutan sendiri telah mengaku di-Ibu Kota Bill accordingly read a second time Kuala Lumpur ini pun telah berlaku and committed to a Committee of the buat pengetahuan-nya. whole House. ,. House immediately resolved itself Dato' Dr Ismail: Ya-lah dia mengaku, into a Committee on the Bill. tetapi orange di-sini nampak-nya, Ahli2 Yang Berhormat di-Kuala Lumpur Bill considered in Committee. menolong orang di-sini mendapatkan (Mr Speaker in the Chair) borang semua itu. Jadi, saya mula2 sa-kali hendak-lah bagi ingat kapada Clauses 1 to 3 inclusive ordered to Ahli Yang Berhormat, tolong-lah stand part of the Bill. orange yang di-kawasan dia itu, itu Bill reported without amendment : satu kewajipan-nya-lah dan orange read the third time and passed. PAS lain pun buat kerj a dahulu, kalau tidak buat ker ja nanti susah Sitting suspended at 5.20 p.m. pula. Sitting resumed at 5.40 p.m. Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) Kami minta terangkan apa-kah ke- wajipan kami itu? THE CINEMATOGRAPH FILMS (AMENDMENT) BILL Dato' Dr Ismail: Kewajipan itu sa- patut-nya perkara yang tuan siarkan Second Reading tadi itu patut di-adukan kapada Polis. Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg Sebab itu satu perkara yang melanggar to move that a Bill entitled "the undang2 dan Polis akan mengambil Cinematograph Films (Amendment) tindakan atas perkara itu. Jadi, kalau Bill, 1966", be now read a second Ahli Yang Berhormat itu tidak meng- time. erti undang2 pun boleh-lah belajar Mr Speaker, Sir, the object of the sadikit2. Bill is to amend Section 25 of the Berkenaan dengan soal Ahli Yang Cinematograph Films Ordinance, 1952, Berhormat daripada Raub saya pun so that the exhibition of films given by tidak tahu apa hendak jawab, apa a foreign country in pursuance to an ma`ana-nya, kalau pergi ka-satu agreement entered into between that Pejabat untok mendapat information Government and the Government of the Federation of Malaya will not be subject to censorship. As the law now Enche' Hussein bin To' Muda Hassan: stands, there is no provision to grant Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada prang yang such an exemption. Sir, I beg to move suka perkara yang tidak ada kena- that the Bill be now read a second mengena dengan diri-nya, dia pergi ka- time. 6905 22 MARCH 1966 6906
Dato' Haji Sardon: Tuan Yang di- Minister in his attempt to tighten up all Pertua, saya menyokong. gaming activities gambling, generally, but this amendment, I think also extends Question put, and agreed to. to Sabah and Sarawak. From his short Bill accordingly read a second time explanation, Sir, I am not clear how it and committed to a Committee of the affects the present law of Sarawak whole House. relating to gambling as a whole. If I remember rightly, in the Sarawak House immediately resolved itself Ordinance relating to gambling there into a Committee on the Bill. are certain Schedules which lay down Bill considered in Committee. that certain types of gambling are not permitted at all. From the Explanatory (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) Note it would appear this has not been stated. Perhaps, the Minister would Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand explain, if I am wrong, that it would part of the Bill. be competent for -I am referring to the Bill reported without amendment : Third Schedule -a Police officer not read the third time and passed. below the rank of Sergeant to decide whether anything is gambling or not, or THE COMMON GAMING HOUSES whether an apparatus being used is for (AMENDMENT) ACT, 1966 gambling or not. Second Reading With regard to gambling generally Mato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, I and the control of gambling it would beg to move that a Bill intituled "the appear that it is often small children, Common Gaming Houses (Amendment) boys, and women who fell foul of the Act, 1966" be now read a second time. law and are caught by the Police and it is very seldom that the big operators The presence of gaming in public are caught at all. For that reason, Sir, under the guise of playing for pastime I will recall that when an application is and activities of illegal lotteries in the made for certain types of fun fair, for various States of Malaysia have become instance, run by a charitable institution, a matter of concern to the Government. arguments always arose as to what constitutes gambling, what is a game of The respective Common Gaming chance, and what is in fact gambling. I Houses Ordinances that exist in the do not know whether this amendment States of Malaya, Sabah and Sarawak which is put forward now would clarify which are used against these illegal this, or would only lead to further operations have been found to be argument, as the decision of a Police deficient, and to enable the Government officer not below the rank of Sergeant to overcome this difficulty formal might well be questioned. approval of this House is, therefore, sought to amend the legislation of each As far as gambling by children is of the States concerned. concerned, I think the basic cause, or the basic remedy rather, is in education. Paragraphs 2, 3 and 4 of the I do not think suppressive measures Explanatory Statement give details of would really solve the problem. It might how each legislation of the State is to only well lead to friction between the be amended and I, therefore, do not Police and those concerned and con- propose to explain what is already siderable argument would ensue as to stated therein. what constitutes gambling, or whether Sir, I beg to move. persons are in fact indulging in, what may be called, an innocent pastime. Dato' Haji Sardon : Sir, I beg to Perhaps the Minister might clarify this second the motion. in the interest of public harmony.
Enche' Ong Kee Hui (Sarawak): Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, Sir, I am sure Members of Sir, I rise to speak on this Bill that has this House will happily support the been introduced by the Honourable 6907 22 MARCH 1966 6908
Minister of Justice. I am a little alarmed the thing I hope the Government may that the Government, as has been shown well inquire. in the past in passing the Turf Club Act, the Lotteries Board and others, is I remember very well that when the actively conniving at the spirit of P.A.P. came into power they issued an gambling in this country, and all the imperial edict that any one, any civil more so, when I see amongst the Bills servant, found in the race course on a to be debated in this House is one for working day faces disciplinary action. the extension of Social Welfare lotteries Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not saying that to the States of Sabah and Sarawak, our civil servants are doing that, but it although, as we are told, negotiations could happen and by opening the doors are still being carried out with Sarawak. wide for gambling to take place, one naturally tempts people to have a little Mr Speaker, Sir, one can go on talking flutter. for hours on end on the evils of Now, if I remember rightly, this gambling. I, myself, have in this House question of gambling has many side spoken on the evils of organised effects. I think at the Budget session the gambling : for example, in respect of Honourable Member for Pasir Puteh the lotteries of Turf Clubs, where before was talking about playing cards with one could only have a little flutter, if nude pictures on the back. Now, this is one were a member of the Turf Clubs, one form of gambling and if you do not now without being a member of the prohibit gambling this goes an multi- Turf Clubs one can have a flutter. And, plying, and I think I am right in saying of course, there are the Social Welfare that the Government has not prohibited lotteries that are sold now, I believe, playing cards of this nature. I stand twice a month, where before they were corrected on this. I would welcome a sold once a month. Pardon my ignor- statement by the Honourable Minister ance on this, Mr Speaker, Sir, because that he will prohibit the importation of I do not have the money to have a little playing cards which show nude pictures flutter either on the Social Welfare of women. If I remember rightly the lotteries or on the Turf Clubs. However, Member for Pasir Puteh used the word what I am alarmed at is, Mr Speaker, galakkan, which he said has a different Sir, that on my way home, either on a connotation in Kelantan as it is com- Sunday afternoon after work, or on a monly made known elsewhere. These Wednesday afternoon during the lunch are the evils among some of the evils of break, I see that when the horses are gambling, and I would hope that the running at Ampang Road the whole Government would take vigorous place is packed with cars, and on measures to stamp out gambling. Sunday also if the horses are running the whole place is again packed with One form of gambling that is at least cars and sometimes there is a little in Kuala Lumpur that I know is this traffic jam. On other days when horses game of "tikam". That is very common are running, let us say, in Singapore, or at the door steps of schools and here I in Penang, or in Ipoh, the cars are hope that the Minister not only in his there but they are a little less. Now, capacity as the Minister for Justice, but what perturbs me is the ordinary man in his capacity as the Minister for Home without a coat, without a tie, going Affairs will look into this. This has there hoping against hope that out of been reported to me by several head- his $5.00 he may well get $50.00 out of masters. You go to the M.B.S.; at the foot of the hill, going up there, these the common tote, or may be out of his hawkers with the "tikam", they waylay $5.00 he hopes to make a few hundred the children going to school, and you dollars. I am not accusing anybody, but turn around and there goes your five I think if the Government were to look cents down the drain, and no pocket a little more carefully, not only at the money for the rest of the day or at car numbers of the people going there the other end of the M.B.S. and I but also at the people going there, one have no doubt in St. Johns where the might find a few civil servants. This is Honourable Minister is the Chairman 6909 22 MARCH 1966 6910 of the Board of Governors this also the Honourable Minister will take into happens. This game of tikam is so account all these evils of gambling that prevalant in almost all these schools in I have enumerated to you. Kuala Lumpur and I do hope that the Minister for Home Affairs will order Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: the Police in Kuala Lumpur to take Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya mengambil more vigorous steps to stamp out this bahagian sadikit di-dalam perkara mi. game of ti kam, in the schools in Kuala Gambling atau pun berjud, penyakit Lumpur. It has two side effects, Mr judi ini, sa-sunggoh-nya telah merebak Speaker, Sir, apart from the children dengan merbahaya-nya di-dalam tanah losing their money. One is that it leads to ayer kita, bukan sahaja di-antara some of these children extorting money gulongan orange tua bahkan masok from their fellow students. I remember penyakit ini ka-dalam gulongan budak2. about two weeks ago I had the unfor- Penyakit ini, sa-bagaimana yang kits tunate and unpleasant duty sitting at telah dengar daripada Ahli2 Yang the Board of Governors of the school, Berhormat yang telah berchakap sa- where pleading for the fate of two boys belum saya, telah membawa kapada who have been sacked from the school, satu penyakit lain di-dalam masharakat because the headmaster found them kita, is-itu apabila merebak-nya judi guilty of extorting money. I saw one ini ka-dalam sa-kalian gulongan, baik small boy extorting money from a hefty tua, mahu pun muda, maka timbul-lah chap and I asked the boy, "A pa pula penyakit2 yang lain sa-umpama ma^cham", would you allow this small menchuri, bercherai berai dan lain2 lagi. boy to take money from you?" and I Penyakit judi ini is-lah satu penyakit have no doubt that it stems out of this yang membawa kapada kepapaan, evil influence of gambling. Another side kesengsaraan dan pergadohan boleh effect, of course, is well known to most berlaku di-dalam satu rumah. Sa-bagai- people, who have anything to do with mana yang telah kita dengar tadi, schools; it is that the tuck shop people penyakit tikam ekor sedang merebak inside say, "we are losing money, we di-sekolah2. mi penyakit akan mendidek tender for this contract." In the school budak2 sekolali dan menggalakkan where I am the Chairman of Board of budak2 bermain judi, walhal mereka Managers the tender price is $800 over itu maseh di-dalam umor yang sangat per month, every month of the year, muda dan kechil lagi. Saya fikir kalau and the caterer there is grumbling, he di-biarkan penyakit ini merebak dan says, "I have no business; there you berjalan terus, tidak berapa lama di- look at it; the chaps with the tikam masa yang akan datang, maka semua boards all are outside and the children pemuda2 kita akan mendapat penyakit before they come to the school, all their suka bermain judi, dan ini tidak-lah money goes there, and they have no akan menguntongkan negara kita bah- money to buy the things that we are kan akan membawa kapada penyakit2 serving." These are some of the evils yang lain2 lagi sa-bagaimana yang saya of gambling and I bring them to the telah terangkan tadi. attention of the Minister with the hope that, if he has the welfare of the rising Penyakit2 ini telah merebak masok generation in this country, he should ka-kampong2, bukan sahaja merebak take active steps to vigorously stamp di-bandar2, juga masok ka-kampong2, out this practice of tikam outside saperti mana yang kita tahu judi yang schools. This is the plea of all the di-namakan tikam ekor. Penyakit judi headmasters that I have come in contact tikam ekor ini telah merebak daripada with; and of course I need not mention, bandar masok ka-kampong2 dan telah Mr Speaker, Sir, the other evils of menyebabkan beberapa perkara yang gambling, where families have been tidak baik is-itu banyak-lah orange kita broken up, where people have taken to yang berharap bahawa jika mereka itu drinking to drown their sorrows, having tikam ekor mereka itu akan untong lost a tidy pack at the race course, of beribu2 ringgit; telah menjual kerbau people committing suicide, as a result mereka itu, telah menjual barang2 of gambling. Mr Speaker, Sir, I hope mereka dan wang yang ada di-kantong 6911 22 MARCH 1966 6912
(di-pocket) mereka itu pun habis di- we can do as a Government is to try belanj akan untok menikam ekor ini to minimise the thing and to get as dengan harapan yang mereka itu akan much prosecution as we can, and it is menang beribu2 ringgit. with this object that I ask for the Dalam lima enam bulan yang lalu, amendment of this Ordinance in this House. kalau tidak silap saya , ada juga satu langkah yang telah di-jalankan oleh I agree with him with regard to Polis untok menchegah merebak-nya juvenile offenders, and I think we penyakit ini di-negeri Kelantan. Tetapi should take more vigorous steps : I also kita dengar bahawa langkah2 yang telah agree with him that we should try to di-ambil untok menchegah penyakit ini make better measures. But, as he knows, chuma buat sementara sahaja. Ke- this game that he has described about mudian daripada tidak berapa hari the spinning wheel also existed in his lama-nya , maka penyakit itu di-biarkan and my time, and I also indulged in it. ber jalan terus-menerus , bahkan ada kita Now that it has become more and more dengar aduan2 yang bahawa ada sa- common, I think we must not encourage tengah daripada pehak Polis yang tidak the thing, and we will do our best to mengambil berat walau pun mereka itu suppress this sort of gambling. With tahu sarang tikam ekor ini bertempat regard to juvenile offenders, it is not pada satu tempat, tetapi mereka itu only the law that must do its work, but tidak mengambil berat. also the parents, the schools, the lay Oleh sebab yang demikian, saya preachers, and everybody must help pinta-lah kapada Yang Berhormat fully to try and combat this evil thing. Menteri, kalau boleh, biar-lah di- Berkenaan dengan Ahli Yang Ber- hapuskan penyakit ini sama sa-kali atau pun penyakit judi, kerana perkara hormat daripada Kelantan Hilir, ini mendatangkan kepapaan dan per- memang-lah kita pun sudah tahu kara yang tidak baik kapada bangsa akibat2 daripada berjudi mi. Jadi bila kita. kita dengar sharahan tadi, sharahan itu kita sendiri pun sudah tahu, chuma bagi Keraj aan kita mahu chuba-lah Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, in reply to the Honourable Member for dengan sa-berapa Jaya upaya dan kita Sarawak, Mr Ong Kee Hui, I would harap juga-lah daripada. PAS Kelantan like to say that it is the object of this di-sana, berdo`a-lah lebeh2 lagi, bacha- Bill to allow the Minister, from time to lah Quran 10 kali, supaya kita boleh-lah bersama2 dapat menghapuskan judi time, by notification in the Gazette to declare any game, method, device, or yang di-haramkan oleh ugama mi. competition specified or described in Question put, and agreed to. such notification to be a lottery. The idea is to make it easier for the prosecu- Bill accordingly read a second time tion to obtain conviction in cases where and committed to a Committee of the a person is charged with an offence whole House. under the Common Gambling Houses Ordinance. If we do not have this House immediately resolved itself declaration, people can defeat the object into a Committee on the Bill. of the prosecution. So, if I can declare that that particular game is a lottery, Bill considered in Committee. then we can get easier conviction. (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) Now, with regard to the Honourable Clauses 1 and 2 Member for Batu, I cannot agree more ordered to stand part of the Bill. with him about the evils of gambling, but as regards the adults, I think, of First schedule ordered to stand part course, he knows more than myself, of the Bill. and being a lay preacher he knows that it is an evil thing that every man should Second schedule ordered to stand avoid, but most men do not. All that part of the Bill. 6913 22 MARCH 1966 6914
Third schedule ordered to stand part to a certain part of his wages for the of the Bill. rest of his working life. That is of course only the rough general Bill reported without amendment; principle. There are a great many read the third time and passed. refinements which I need not go into. It will be clear that if a THE CIVIL LAW (AMENDMENT) widow has gained by her husband's BILL death, as might be the case, for example, Second Reading if she has inherited a large sum of Dato' Dr Ismail : Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg money from him, that gain will have to to move that a Bill intituled "An Act be deducted from the damages. Many to amend the Civil Law Ordinance, years ago, it was held in the courts that 1956, and to repeal certain written laws this applied when the deceased had relating to apportionment and assign- been insured. Insurance payments had ment", be read a second time. to be deducted like any other gains. This was thought to be unfair, because This Bill, Sir, seeks to do three quite it benefited no one, except the defendant separate things. Clause 2 seeks to in the case, who had to pay less amend Section 7 of the Civil Law damages, because the man he killed Ordinance, 1956. Clause 3 inserts a new had been prudent enough to insure part in that Ordinance, and Clause 4 himself. Therefore, legislation was repeals an Ordinance and an Enactment. enacted to provide that insurance pay- ments were not to be deducted from the The main purpose of this Bill is the damages in fatal accident cases. amendment of Section 7 of the Civil Law Ordinance. The opportunity has In a case in Johore in 1962, it was been taken to deal with other matters held that, the payment to a widow from at the same time. Section 7 of the Civil the Employees Provident Fund was Law Ordinance provides for the award not an insurance payment. It followed of damages in civil proceedings to the that the amount of damages had t,o be family of a deceased person whose reduced by the amount of the payment death has been caused by negligence or from the Fund. The Government takes some other wrongful act. This is, of the view that payments from the course, a most important section. The Employees Provident Fund ought to be common law originally did not provide put on the same basis as insurance any such remedy, when a person was payments. Accordingly we propose to killed by negligence. If a person was amend the Civil Law Ordinance to injured but not killed he could sue; but provide that payment from the Fund if he was killed there was no one who shall not be taken into account in could bring an action. Now, this state assessing damages and we seek to of affairs was put right by legislation in achieve that object by Clause 2 of the Great Britain in 1846, and Section 7 of Bill now before the House. Clause 2 the Civil Law Ordinance makes does not, in fact, limit itself to pay- corresponding provisions here. As ments from the Employees Provident Honourable Members will appreciate, a Fund. It brings in other payments, by great deal depends in many cases of way of pensions or gratuities. It this kind, on what lawyers called the appears logical that all payments of measure of damages. By that I mean this kind should be treated on the same the method by which the amount of basis. I am sure that Honourable damages is calculated, when a person Members in all parts of the House will has succeeded in winning his case. The agree with me that this is an amend- general principle in fatal accident cases ment to the law which is both fair and is that the amount of damages is arrived eminently desirable. I suppose it might at by calculating the amount that the be described as something of a lawyer's widow and other surviving members of amendment, but it is by no means the family have lost by the death. If a purely technical in it,s effect. On the deceased person was a wage-earner, the contrary, it will be of great benefit to widow will have lost an amount equal those who, through no fault of their 6915 22 MARCH 1966 6916 own, lose the head of their family in Law Ordinance, it will, of course, be an accident. necessary to repeal the Apportionment Ordinance and that is done by Clause 4. I turn now, Mr Speaker, Sir, to the Honourable Members will see that other Clauses in the Bill. Unlike Clause Clause 4 also repeals the Assignments 2, these remaining Clauses are purely Enactment, 1936, of the former technical. Honourable Members will Federated Malay States. The reason for see that Clause 3 seeks to insert in the that is simply that the matters provided Civil Law Ordinance a new part for by the Enactment are now dealt by headed "Apportionment,". This branch sub-section 3 of section 4 of the Civil of the law deals with the question Law Ordinance. The Enactment is, when a periodical payment such as therefore, redundant and can be rent actually becomes payable : for repealed. example, if a house is let at a quarterly rent of $500 and the tenancy comes to I should also make one final point an end for some reason half-way clear to the House. The Civil Law through a quarter, can the landlord Ordinance extends only to the States of recover part of the rent, or is it the Malaya, and the Borneo States will not case that he can recover no rent, be affected by this Bill. The matters because the period was never com- dealt with by the Civil Law Ordinance pleted? In Penang and Malacca when are far-reaching and of great import- they were part of the Straits Settle- ance. It is to be hoped that in due ments, an Ordinance called "the course it will be possible to have Apportionment Ordinance" was passed unified legislation throughout Malaysia to make it clear that in a case of the on these matters, but it is not possible kind I have just quoted, the rent would as yet since many difficult legal affairs be deemed to accrue from day-to-day are involved. We do not think it right and the landlord would, therefore, be to hold up the amendment of section 7 able to recover a proportionate amount of the Civil Law Ordinance pending of the rent for that quarter. That the settlement of this question, and Ordinance is still in force in Penang we have thought it best to proceed and Malacca, but there is no corres- with amendments here and now. ponding legislation in the other States Sir, I am afraid, that I had to go into of Malaya. To ensure uniformity, we in a good deal of detail. I am sure, the Government take the view that the however, that the House will agree provisions of the existing Apportion- with me that the amendment to ment Ordinance should be extended section 7 is bath necessary and throughout the States of Malaya. To important and that the other amend- avoid multiplicity of legislation, it ments, although perhaps they would appears that amendment of the Civil not justify an amending Bill by Law Ordinance, rather than an exten- themselves, are desirable and rightly sion of the Apportionment Ordinance, included in the Bill. I think I can say would be the best way of achieving this that this is a non-controversial and object. The Bill, therefore, provides thoroughly useful Bill, and I com- by Clause 3 and the Schedule for the mend it to the Honourable Members insertion of the Civil Law Ordinance accordingly. of the new part headed "Apportion- ment" to which I have just referred. Sir, I beg to move. The only difference of substance between the new part and the Dato' Haji Sardon: Sir, I beg to Apportionment Ordinance is that the second the motion. definition of "rents' in the proposed new section 16A excludes rents payable Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, for State land. The reason for the Sir, as the Honourable Minister of exclusion is that rents for State land Justice has rightly put it, this Bill, are now dealt with in the National particularly section 7 of the Civil Law Land Code. As a consequence of the Ordinance, 1956, must have the support insertion of the new part in the Civil of all the Members of this House, and 6917 22 MARCH 1966 6918
I for one heartily endorse all the have the insurance companies to have a grounds that he has postulated for the pool of money to cater for cases of this amendment of this section. It seems to nature. me an act of gross injustice, if prudence on the part of the deceased should Question put, and agreed to. penalise his dependants should he have Bill accordingly read a second time an insurance policy, and more so if in and committed to a Committee of the any court award the E.P.F. is deducted whole House. from the damages. House immediately resolved itself Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to draw the into a Committee on the Bill. attention of the Honourable Minister of Bill considered in Committee. Justice to a recent case in the High Court where, although the Lord Presi- (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) dent agreed that the defendant was guilty of killing the deceased, he could Clause 1 to 4 inclusive ordered to not award any damages, because the stand part of the Bill. clever lawyer of the insurance company Schedule ordered to stand part of the examined the licence, I believe, of the Bill. car very carefully and found that although it had been supposed to be Bill reported without amendment : transferred the transfer had not actually read the third time and passed. taken place and, therefore, the defendant was not culpable and, consequently, the THE SUPPLEMENTARY SUPPLY Lord President could not award any (1965) (No. 3) BILL damages to the dependants of the Second Reading deceased. The Lord President then went The Assistant Minister of Finance (Dr on to say that in a civilised society like Ng Kam Poh): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg ours, it is appalling that the insurance to move that a Bill intituled, "an Act companies which make bags of money to apply sums out of the Consolidated should try and escape their liability Fund for additional expenditure for the through a technicality. Now, Mr service of the year 1965, and to appro- Speaker, Sir, I believe this thing was priate such sums for certain purposes" aired in the press about a few months be read a second time. before the case in question was heard by the Lord President and, if I am Honourable Members will recall that correct, after the case was heard before when the Third Supplementary Esti- the Lord President, the Minister of mates, 1964, were presented in this Transport did issue a statement that he House in early March, 1965, the would bring legislation to see that the Minister of Finance pointed out that insurance companies should form a it was a normal procedure and in pool to cater for cases of this nature accordance with the Constitution that where through a technicality the the Supplementary Estimates in respect insurance companies can escape liability. of expenditure for the past year could Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to commend be presented for the approval of the this as an urgent necessity for the House in the following year. The Bill Government to bring forth a legislation now presented to the House seeks to prevent insurance companies who, I authority for additional expenditure in repeat again, are making, I would not 1965. The Minister of Finance also say fabulous sums of money, but pointed out that under the Financial making a fair amount of money and Procedure Ordinance, 1957, the then escaping liability through a techni- Treasury is empowered to issue money cality that has been overlooked. I from the Contingencies Fund, pending commend this suggestion to the the approval of Supplementary Esti- Ministers both of Transport and of mates, to meet urgent and unforeseen Justice and hope, between both of them expenditure for which no provision or in the next session of this House, they insufficient provision had been entered will bring the necessary legislation to in the approved Estimates. Some of the 6919 22 MARCH 1966 6920 supplements now sought refer to such The largest supplement of Supply expenditure which has been authorised expenditure is in respect of Head via the Contingencies Fund; and in 5. 25, Contribution to Statutory Funds, accordance with the Financial Procedure with a sum of $9.6 million, of which Ordinance any sum authorised by the $5 million is required for increasing Treasury in such a manner must be the amount in the Supplies Trading reported to Parliament irrespective of Department Account to $73 million, whether the full amount has actually $4 million for increasing the amount been spent or not. in the Inter-administration Account to $10 million, so as to cover the needs Honourable Members will observe of all the States of Malaysia, and $0.6 that there are a number of token votes million is for augmenting the State of $10 sought in the Supplementary Reserve Fund and the Personal Estimates. Under the Financial Proce- Advances (Public Officers) Fund. The dure Ordinance, the Treasury has the next biggest item is in respect of Head power to transfer a provision appearing 5. 19, Education Grants and Subven- under one sub-head of the Estimates to tions, where an additional sum of $7.2 another, or create a new sub-head million is required to meet the pay- without reference to Parliament as long ments of statutory grants in respect of as the total for the whole Head of Primary and Secondary Schools in Expenditure is not exceeded. Legally, 1965. Head S. 24, Treasury General therefore, there is no necessity for the Services, requires an additional sum Government to present such token votes of $2.36 million, of which $2 million to Parliament at all. However, the represents an advance towards the $5 Treasury feels that in certain cases of million equity investment in Bank such transfers of funds by means of Bumiputra already provided for in the token votes, particularly for the purpose Development Estimates and the of a new service, they should be balance of $0.36 million is required reported to Parliament. for supplementing the provision for Road Grants to Municipalities. Head The total supplement now sought is S. 32, Ministry of Health, requires a $51,930,248 of which a sum of supplement of $1.2 million, of which $24,820,195 is charged on the Consoli- $0.9 million is for meeting the cost of dated Fund by authority of the extra provisions needed for hospitals relevant laws' and therefore needs no and $0.3 million is in respect of anti- further approval of the House. The malarial services, i.e., for settling amount required to be appropriated by arrears of housing allowances and this Supplementary Bill is $27,110,053 wages of anti-malarial labourers and and this is mentioned in Clause 2 of the cost of drugs for the treatment of the Bill. The original estimates aborigines. Head S. 33, Ministry of approved for 1965 amounted to Home Affairs, requires a sum of $1.06 $1,598.9 million, and taking into million to meet, among other things, account the two supplements approved the personal emoluments and other in May and November, 1965, and the charges due to the increase in the present supplement, the total estimates strength of the Senoi Pra'ak, the for 1965 amount to $1,735.8 million, expenditure on the protection of key of which a sum of $338.4 million is points and the cost of emergency roads charged on the Consolidated Fund. and airfields in Sabah, and the expen- diture in providing financial assistance The need for these supplements is already explained in the Treasury to fishermen affected by curfew orders. Memorandum accompanying the Third Head S. 21, Ministry of External Supplementary Estimates of Expendi- Affairs, requires a sum of $0.95 ture for 1965, tabled as Command million for supplementing the various Paper No. 7 of 1966. I will, therefore, sub-heads of the Ministry and for the confine myself to those items which payment for four years' advance on are quite substantial and are of rented accommodation for the Malay- general interest to Honourable Mem- sian High Commission and Staff in bers. Lagos, Nigeria. Head S. 12, Overseas 6921 22 MARCH 1966 6922
Service Aid Scheme, requires a sum of the Central Government done almost $0.8 million since the original provi- nothing towards prevention of floods sion in the Estimates has proved to be which come with every North East under-estimated, as it was difficult at Monsoon towards the end of each the time of framing the Estimates to year? Is it because that one of these forecast the likely expenditure. Head States happens to be Kelantan, which S. 34, Royal Malaysia Police, requires is P.M.I.P. controlled but which is a sum of $0.84 million to meet the per- also the worst affected of the East sonal emoluments and other charges Coast States? I hope this is not so, for, for the Malaysian component of Com- in the matter of prevention of floods, bined Intelligence Headquarters in it is the duty of the Central Govern- Songkhla, Thailand, and the cost of ment, with all the resources of the radio sets and equipment for the Drainage and Irrigation Department Police Force and its non-regular units and of the Agriculture Department as in Sarawak and Sabah. well, to do its best to prevent floods there, irrespective of the political As the Ministers concerned will be identity of the States Governments explaining to the House in detail concerned. during the committee stage the pur- poses of the additional sums sought by Mr Speaker, Sir, with the advent of their Ministries, I need not therefore every North East Monsoon, the poor go into them in detail at this point. people in the low-lying areas of the Sir, I beg to move. East Coast States of Malaya find them- selves flooded out of their homes. Enche' Ibrahim bin Abdul Rahman: When they come back, it is often to Sir, I beg to second the motion. find their crops ruined, their livestock destroyed, and much of their belong- Mr (Deputy) Speaker: The time is ings swept away, or ruined by the up. I shall call upon a Member of the floods. Government to move the adjournment During the recent floods, which of this House. occurred during the Budget Session last year, more than a hundred thou- ADJOURNMENT sand acres of padi land in Kelantan alone were under four to eleven feet (Motion) of water. The damage done not only Dato' Haji Sardon: Mr Speaker, Sir, I to the padi crops but also to livestock beg to move that the House do now and other properties is enormous. The adjourn. floods last year brought memories to the old timers of the great floods that Tuan Haji Mohamed Ghazali bin occurred in Kelantan at the end of Haji Jawi: Sir, I beg to second the 1926. motion. Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-malam ADJOURNMENT SPEECH kita di-Rumah Yang Berhormat ini telah mendengar Menteri Pertanian EAST COAST STATES OF dan Sharikat Kerjasama, berchakap MALAYA FLOODS mengatakan Jabatan Pant dan Tali Ayer hendak membaiki kerosakan di- Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, Pantai Timor. Saya hendak bertanya. it is the avowed purpose of the mengapa Jabatan tersebut tidak meng- Alliance Government to raise the ambil tindakan untok mengurangkan standard of living of the bumi putraLs'. banjir2 di-Pantai Timor dahulu? That being so, we find it difficult to understand the almost callous and Mr Speaker, Sir, it is tragic that the casual attitude of the Central Govern- Central Government has almost taken ment to the annually recurrent floods a fatalistic attitude towards these on the East Coast States of Malaya. floods and have come to regard them Now, the people living in these States as an act of God, brought by Allah to are mainly bumi pufas. Why then has punish the recalcitrant P.M.I.P. 6923 22 MARCH 1966 6924
Government of Kelantan but Treng. mize the havoc that follows in the trail ganu has been affected too. The pro- of the floods annually. Thank you. blem is an agricultural and engineer- ing one, and by these means it is Tuan Haji Mohamed Ghazali bin possible to alleviate the effects of these Haji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa- floods and not regard them as an act bagaimana yang di-nyatakan oleh of God. So far as one can see, no Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Batu is-itu measures to lessen their severity have ada-lah menjadi dasar, chita2 dan been undertaken by the Central hasrat Kerajaan Perikatan bagi me- Government. On the other hand, we ninggikan taraf kehidupan bumiputra see the Social Welfare Department dan ra`ayat negeri ini seluroh-nya. going there, and we have now the Dasar dan hasrat jni belum berubah promise of the Minister of Agriculture dan tidak akan berubah sa-lagi Peri- and Co-operatives saying we want to katan berkuasa di-dalam negeri mi. membaiki kerosakan di-sang why not Di-dalam melaksanakan chita2 ini, prevent or alleviate the floods? Kerajaan tidak memileh kaseh dan Sir, the obvious measures are to memberi layanan yang berlainan, keep steep land as far as possible dengan sharat ra`ayat, khas-nya Kera- under its natural jungle cover and to jaan Negeri, sanggup bekerjasama dan ensure that the rivers function as they mahu menerima ranchangan2 yang should. A river is merely a natural di-susun dan di-lancharkan oleh Kera- drain on a large scale and a drain jaan. Sa-bagaimana Ahli Yang Ber- must be kept clean and open. Thus hormat itu sendiri ma`alum, urusan houses, huts and the growing of crops menjaga dan memberseh sungai dan should not be permitted on the river kerja2 kechil ada-lah di-bawah kuasaan banks which should have a reserve on dan urusan Kerajaan Negeri. Walau both sides of about two chains wide. demikian Kerajaan Pusat telah mem- If there is human habitation by the ber bantuan berkenaan Kemajuan river banks, then rubbish will fall into Ranchangan' Pant dan Tali Ayer di- the river and erosion will take place. dalam Negeri, termasok negeri Kelan- Silt will collect in the river bed of the tan is-itu Ranchangan Lemal dan muddy dirty river which will meander Ranchangan Kemubu. about and be unable to generate a Banjir atau pun bah yang berlaku current swift and strong enough to di-Pantai Timor di-akhir tahun sudah scour away the silt and keep a straight bukan sahaja di-Kelantan, bahkan di- channel. It is obvious that where Trengganu dan di-Pahang jua. Mengi- erosion has taken place, the river kut keterangan yang di-ambil dan banks must be renewed and streng- di-sampan, sungai2 di-Kelantan dan thened. If there are large bends that di-negeri yang dua lagi ada-lah chukup impede the rapid flood of water, then besar untok mengelakkan banjir yang these should be straightened. The silt datang 10 tahun sa-kali. Tetapi, sungai at the mouth of the rivers must be yang ada itu tidak dapat m engelakkan removed, and, in order to ensure rapid merbahaya banjir yang datang dalam exit of water to the sea, the rivers at masa 30 tahun sa-kali. Kalau sa-kira- this point must be canalized. nya kita hendak mengelakkan banjir All these engineering problems are, yang datang 30 tahun sa-kali itu ter- I am sure, within the capability of the paksa-lah di-besarkan;. . . . officers •of the Drainage and Irrigation Department, and given the tools and Dr Tan Chee Khoon : Untok penje- money, I am sure they will make a lasan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada-kah good job of it. di-Pantai Timor banjir 30 tahun sa- kali, atau tiap2 tahun ada banjir atau In conclusion, Mr Speaker, Sir, on ayer bah di-Pantai Timor yang ter- behalf of the flood victims of the East utama di-negeri Kelantan tiap2 tahun, Coast States, may I make a plea to the bukan 30 tahun sa-kali. Central Government not to ignore the floods in that region but to tackle the Tuan Haji Mohamed Ghazali bin problem with vigour so as to mini- Haji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, banjir 6925 22 MARCH 1966 6926 datang ka-negeri Kelantan dan Pantai Tahun 1962 ...... 21.82 inchi Timor pada tiap2 tahun, tetapi „ 1963 ...... 18.93 chuma degree besar banjir itu dan „ 1964 ...... 12.8 „ dalam 10 tahun sa-kali banjir yang „ 1965 ...... 54.2 „ besar akan datang dan pada 30 tahun Hujan yang lebat sa-kali dalam satu sa-kali banj it yang lebeh besar akan hari dalam bulan itu dalam bulan datang. November is-lah 14.67 inchi, dan. Jadi, saya akan mengemukakan, bulan December 8.12 inchi. Dalarn atau mencheritakan keadaan2 sukatan masa 13 hari daripada 27 haribulan ayer hujan di-dalam jawapan saya November sampai 9 haribulan Decem- kelak. mi kalau sa-kira-nya hendak ber hujan turun sa-banyak 54 inchi. di-besarkan sungai di-dalam negeri Itu-lah keterangan hujan yang turun Kelantan, Pahang dan Trengganu, dua dalam masa bulan November, bulan kali daripada keadaan sekarang ini, December bagi lima tahun yang sudah, akan memakan belanja yang besar, dan nampak-lah di-sini is-itu dalam kerana terpaksa mengambil tanah2 tahun yang sudah hujan turun lebat orang, mengubah rumah2 dan ber- sa-kali sa-hingga dalam satu hari, ma.cham2 perkara terpaksa di-jalankan. bulan November, hujan turun sampai Ranchangan menchegah banjir juga 14.67 inchi. di-dapati sangat besar belanja.-nya dan Dengan hujan turun lebat pada tidak akan memberi kesan, oleh sebab minggu akhir bulan November dan hujan telah turun mengejut dan lebat minggu pertama bulan December dan di-dalam masa yang singkat. Untok ayer mengalir dan berkumpul di-tanah ma`aluman Dewan ini mengikut ke- rendah, maka bah dan banjir, sa- terangan yang di-simpan, hujan yang bagaimana berlaku itu, tidak dapat turun pada waktu yang sama pada di-elakkan. Walau bagaimana pun, tiap2 'tahun ada-lah saperti berikut: Jabatan Pant dan Taliayer telah pun Dalam tahun 1961 di-Kota menyediakan satu ranchangan bagi Baharu bulan November, menyusun dan membetulkan sadikit hujan turun sa-banyak .. 42.1 inchi sa-banyak sungai2 yang ada di-dalam Dalam tahun 1962 ...... 13.64 negeri ;tu, tetapi pehak Jabatan Pant „ 1963 ...... 21.6 dan Taliayer juga terpaksa menjalan- „ 1964 ...... 11.9 kan satu kajian yang lain. Kalau sa- „ 1965 ...... 35.53 „ kira-nya sungai2 itu di-betulkan, boleh Dalam bulan December tahun 1961 ...... 36.51 jadi manakala hujan datang lebat, Dalam tahun 1962 ...... 23.37 ayer daripada ulu akan turun lebeh 1963 ...... 13.72 deras ka-tanah2 yang pamah, atau pun 1964 ...... 13.55 rendah dan itu akan menyebabkan bah 1965 ...... 40.79 yang lebeh besar lagi bagi kawasan2 yang rendah. Jadi, perkara2 ini akan Hujan bagi tiap2 satu hari yang di- di-kaji dan sa-telah di-adakan kajian dapati di-dalam masa yang lebat ini, akan di-jalankan perusahaan ber- dalam tahun 1965 pada bulan Novem- kenaan dengan membaiki-nya . . . ber, pada satu hari 24 jam 12.22 inchi dan pada bulan December 5.91 inchi. Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: Dalam masa 10 hari daripada 27 hari- Untok pertanyaan, tidak-ka h boleh bulan November sampai 6 haribulan di-adakan canal yang sekarang ini December, dalam masa 10 hari hujan untok irrigation, untok memberi ayer tur un 43 inchi. kapada sawah2 padi? Canal itu juga Bagi negeri Trengganu dalam di-gunakan untok mengambil ayer bulan November, tahun 1961 37.01 inchi yang lebeh untok di-buang ka-laut. Tahun 1962 ...... 13.42 Sa-bagaimana yang kita tahu sekarang 1963 ...... 23.97 ini, parit2 yang di-korek di-Lemal dan 1964 ...... 18.02 „ akan di korek pula di-Kemubu, maka 1965 ...... 32.77 parit2 ini semua-nya dapat menjalan- Dalam bulan December, kar satu kerja sahaja, is-itu untok tahun 1961 ...... 31.74 memberi ayer sahaja kapada sawah2 6927 22 MARCH 1966 6928
padi. Tidak-kah boleh di-fikirkan ada guna-nya lagi dengan sebab pada supaya di-jadikan pant ini pada masa masa itu di-dalam kawasan bendang, orange sawah berhaj at kapa da ayer, ayer telah pun naik sa-hingga empat pant ini dapat memberi ayer, tetapi lima kaki dan ada sa tengah-nya di-masa hujan, pant ini dapat pula sampai bumbong rumah orang. Jadi mengeluarkan ayer ka-laut? Jadi, berma`ana-lah ranchangan pant dan dengan satu perbelanjaan sahaja dapat taliayer itu tidak memberi f aedah lagi di-gunakan untok dua kerj a yang dapat pada masa itu kerana ayer lebeh menghendarkan dan menyelamatkan tinggi daripada pant yang ada atau ra ayat daripada bah. pun batas yang ada. Jadi ini-lah saya sebutkan kalau sa-kira-nya di-betul- Tuan Haji Mohamed Ghazali bin kan sungai2 yang ada boleh jadi lebeh Haji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya deras ayer yang datang daripada ulu rasa Ahli dari Kota Bharu Hilir ini menimpa ka-kawasan rendah dan berchakap dengan tidak mengetahui boleh jadi kalau sa-kira-nya hujan keadaan2 ranchangan pant-memarit datang lebat ayer laut pasang, maka dan sa-bagai-nya, kerana di-dalam ayer tidak dapat mengalir ka-laut dan ranchangan mana juga pun bila di- akan berkumpul di-dalam kawasan sebutkan ranchangan sawah, mesti ada rendah. pant masok dan ada pant buang tidak ada satu ranchangan di-dalam Walau bagaimana pun, sa-bagai- Malaya ini yang mempunyai chuma mana yang saya nyatakan, pehak pant masok dengan tidak mempunyai Pej abat Pant dan Taliayer sedang pant buang. menjalankan siasatan dan kajian bagai- mana dapat menchegahkan sadikit sa- Jadi, saya harap Ahli itu sendiri banyak berkenaan dengan banjir bagi pergi tengok bendang. Jangan-lah masa yang akan datang ini, tetapi chuma berchakap di-sini, kemudian bagaimana yang di-katakan kalau sa- tambahan yang kedua .. . kira-nya banjir datang sa-bagaimana yang tahun sudah, walau pun macham Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Abdullah: mana baik sa-kali pun ranchangan Untok keterangan, di-ranchangan pant pant dan taliayer, tidak dapat di- yang telah di-buat di-Lemal itu, saya elakkan banjir dan bah itu. tengok tidak ada pant yang menge- luarkan ayer, chuma mengambil ayer Dr Tan Chee Khoon : On a point of sahaja daripada sawah2 padi. Itu information, Mr Speaker, Sir, the sebab yang menjadi pertanyaan saya. Honourable Minister has stated just now that the Department of Drainage Tuan Haji Mohamed Ghazali bin and Irrigation is investigating ways and Haji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya means of trying to alleviate floods, but telah menerangkan di-mana ada ran- the whole burden of his speech is that, changan irrigation mesti ada ran- if there are floods of the nature of changan drainage atau pun di-mana last year when these waters come from pant masok mesti ada pant keluar, the hulu with such swiftness, nothing kalau masok sahaja tidak buang boleh that the Drainage and Irrigation Depart- jadi kembong perut, hanchor habis ment can do will be of any use. That, ranchangan itu (Ketawa). to me, is a very fatalistic attitude to take. We all know that the Yellow Yang kedua, sa-masa berlaku bah River of China has been called "The di-negeri Kelantan baharu2 ini di- Sorrow of China", but since the advent akhir tahun 1965, saya rasa Ahli Yang of the Communists, the Communists Berhormat itu sendiri tida.k melihat have taken active steps to see that the sa-masa ayer bah itu berlaku dengan floods are even prevented. I am merely sa-benar-nya, kerana pada masa ayer asking for an alleviation of the floods. bah berlaku di-Kelantan hujan turun The floods in China have now all been lebat di-Ulu Kelantan, Machang dan prevented, and this I commend to the lain2-nya. Ayer itu semua turun mari Drainage and Irrigation Department, ka-Kota Baharu, Pasir Mas. Pada in particular to the Minister concerned, masa itu ranchangan taliayer tidak to prevent floods and not to take a 6929 22 MARCH 1966 6930 fatalistic attitude "Nothing that we ikhtiar untok mengelakkan kerosakan can do will prevent this huge volume of berlaku manakala bah datang dan sa- water coming to the lowlands of bagai-nya. Kelantan, Trengganu and Pahang". Question put, and agreed to.
Tuan Haji Mohamed Ghazali bin Mr (Deputy) Speaker: Majlis ini di- Haji dawi : Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tanggohkan sa-hingga pukul 10 pagi telah nyatakan pehak Jabatan Pant esok. dan Taliayer sedang mengkaji untok membaiki keadaan2 tempat itu dan Adjourned at 6.50 p.m.