CINEMA CAN A D A • Event: The Atlantic Film and Video Producers' Conference Case Study: John Walker THE BIG DEAL Place: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown Time: 15 minutes before lunch (applause and foot-stomping) instinctively, start selecting and adapting and pulling the bits of text, she had an instinct of how Chaimum :Thankyou very much. (more to translate that written language through to whistling and cheering) Our next guest speaker dialogue. We all came together for the first is from Toronto- selection, which was about 200 pages thick, and (Boos and catcalls) began discussing our approach to the film. We came together every couple of weeks and that Chairman : - from Toronto, home of the Big took about a year of discussions. Deal. He is a cinematographer, documentary We had all worked on big-budget films butwe filmmaker and brown-eyed handsome man. decided to make this one a low-budget film Ladies and gentlemen, John Walker. because we wanted to get it made. Too many of (smattering of applause) our friends have spent anywhere from three to John Walker : (clears throat) I know you're all seven years with their two or three-million-dollar anxious to get to lunch, but I'mhere today to talk budgets, and they are still trying to raise money about how to produce a low-budget feature, as for the film and getting depressed about not opposed to The Big Deal that is so prevalent in making the film . Our aim from the start was to Toronto these days. Specifically, I will talk about work with something that was manageable, in my own experiences in the making of AWinter terms of the amount of money, and what we Tan, and how we got the project off the ground. could accomplish on a low budget, based on our (murmurings of suspicious minds) experience. It's very easy to come up with a John Walker : Have any of you seen A Winter two-million-dollar budget. We could have done Tan? it with a snap of our fingers in an afternoon. The Heckler: Seen it? Man, I've lived it! difficult thing is to know how to come up with a John Walker: Great! We do have something in very small budget. What is the least amount of common then. (coughs) The project was put money we can have to actually get this thing together by a team of five people who all came made ? out of the so-called 'industry' . We all had Heckler: In Toronto? How about 3.4 million varying degrees of experience from 15 to 25 years not counting deferments? in our fields. We set out to make a film that ran John Walker: Maybe some, but not us. In trying in the opposite direction of the industry, in to raise the money, we immediately ruled out terms of our approach and strategy. television because of the dialogue. It is fairly Jackie Burroughs, whom I'msure most of you rough language for those of you that have seen know, was given abook called Give Sorrow Words it. We realized that most TV networks would by a friend of hers. It is based on the letters never be able to show it. The first place we went written by a woman who went to Mexico, to was the Canada Council and the Ontario Arts essentially to write a novel in the tradition of Council. The arts councils are always a ray of Malcolm Lowry, and wrote some 2,000 letters in hope for filmmakers that want to do something a period of two years. She ended up being that is against the stream and a little bit murdered down there and her friend that she experimental. It's a very comforting process if wrote the letters to edited and published a book you're successful with it because you are judged of the letters. Jackie found a profound by your peers. There are five filmmakers that are connection with the character and liked the judging your script. They are scrutinizing it writing - that was really the starting point of the based on their own experiences as filmmakers, project. It's really a project that grew from not as deal makers. That is an important first within, as opposed to "What's the market out step, to gain that confidence from your peers. there?", "How are we going to make money on We were fortunate to receive the requested this?" It was developed from the inside out. amount from both councils and had close to a We each had a craft that we brought to the hundred thousand dollars at this point. film, Jackie as an actor, Louise Clark who was a When we took the scriptto Telefilm one reader producer and production manager, John rejected the script so we didn't get anywhere . Frizzell, a writer, Aerlyn Weissman, a sound there. We had a meeting with then director Peter recordist and myself as cinematographer. We Pearson, and he put his arm around Jackie and had three Mexicans working with us on location said to her, "When I was your age dear, Iwa nted a gaffer, an assistant cameraperson and a to make a film like this too, but now we are Mexican line producer. That was it. making serious films " or something to that We clearly decided that this was going to be al effect, and that was the end of the meeting. film by five people. There wasn't a hierarchy. Jackie didn't remind him tha t she was older than There wasn't one vision in terms of a director. he was but that's beside the point. Anyway, We shared in the shaping of the film, but we all back to the drawing board, we've got ahundred came with our particular strengths and were not thousand, what to do next? . competing wit h each other's strengths. Looking at the script again, we decided that Although we all felt that this was" our" film. the camera was going to play the character of The first step was to start the screenplay Edith , the person that Jackie Burroughs' adaptation. Jackie takes the primary credit for character was writing letters to. There would be that. It's interesting - it really took an actor to, a direct address to the camera which is a very

PAGE gO CINEMA CANADA OCTO.E. i." CINEMA CAN A D A • difficult thing to do. Like in cinema verite, the bones of the written script. the Festival theatres in Toronto and independent of rather orthodox industry circumstances, intervention of the camera changes the scene So we shot the film in February. We were theatres across Canada. They pick up a lot of would you like to continue that way or do you and plays a role, so we began working within down in Mexico for six weeks. We shot for 23 European films and were interested in think that was something special to this project ? that context. The budget that we finally came up days. We came back and started editing. We had distributing more Canadian film, so Ron went John Walker: That's a very good question. Yes, I with was $150,000. and we thought we could do a rough cut in June-July. With the rough cut, the with us and, being an enlightened distributor would like to continue working this way. It has something with that. . Festival of Festivals was interested in the film with the Canadian rights, was able to pitch the always been my strategy, as a filmmaker, to We approached the Ontario Film Develop­ and wanted to show it. It was dear that with our project and make the right connections. He make films that are cost-effective. An ment Corporation with the script and they small editing staff, it would be impossible to made a deal with Cineplex and the international understanding of that way of working is rooted supported us through a special fund. It was finish the film bySeptember. We could have still deal went to Films Transit who took it to the in the documentary tradition which we have in called aSpecial Projects Fund - a very small finished the film for $150,000 if we continued Berlin Film Festival and sold it to 10 countries. this country, and which I value as very amount 01 money set aside for projects that I with one editor on deferred salary for months Audience Member: But you had great press. important roots. This film could not have been guess they thought were risky but interesting. and months, but we decided that the Festival of John Walker: We were very luckyto have good made the way it was without documentary I'd just like to point out that three of the films Festivals was a very important starting point for press. Along with the great poster by Tim Forbes experience. I think that we should build our that came out of that special fund were, I've .A Winter Tan . We convinced Telefilm to come and a promotional campaign, we got positive industry from the ground up and I know I'm Heard the Mermaids Singing, Family Viewing and A into it and were able to hire a large crew of sound reviews in Toronto and Vancouver. There is no speaking in the opposite direction than the way Winter Tan. We were supported by the OFDC, .editors to get the film ready in time. The final guarantee that you will get good press but it is trade forums work and market orientations and and Imust say that if you read the script, it could budget was about $300,000, with Telefilm's final good free publicity and it helped the film so on. I am a filmmaker. That's my orientation, easily be mistaken for a porno flick. The OFDC involvement. tremendously . That, combined with the fact that so I'm really speaking from that point of view. was able to meet with us so we could discuss the Audience Member: How did you go about Jackie Burroughs can get an interview with But what I think is clear, recently, is that when context and the treatment of the film. This was finding distribution for it in Canada? anyone, whether it's newspapers, radio or TV, you support filmmakers, when you support very important. John Walker :That is a very important question because she is a well-known actor. Afilm that talent, you get films like Mermaids. It was not There is an obsession in our industry with the because in order to access Telefilm or OFDC you doesn't have a star, or a personality that is made to make money. They were surprised written text and not enough emphasis placed on have to have a Canadian distributor. We had well-known, becomes more difficult to promote. when they had success. They just set out to the visual treatment. After all, the script is just a Ron McOusky of Creative Exposure who gave Getting a film to a release print stage doesn't make a good film, and I think that's important. blueprint for an essentially visual medium. Just us support righ t from the start, even at the early mean you have finished, it means that you are Yes I would like to continue working this way, in to fill in on that point, we found out why stages of the script. It is a tough script but he only halfway there. The next half of the fact I've always worked this way in documenta­ Telefilm initially rejected the film when the recognized that there was something there and filmmaking process is getting it seen. I cannot ry, trying to maximize production values for the script reader turned upon vacation in Acapulco. he supported us stress enough the importance ofthat. Too many least amount of money. To work with the We had an opportunity, after a few tequilas, to through thick independent filmmakers leave that side of minimal amount of technology and the minimal get out of him why the film was rejected. His and thin. I things to fate and that's just amount of equipment. response was, "We just weren't sure about the really ad­ not good enough. Heckler : Could you be a little more treatment of the film. It dearly could have been mire him Audience Member :In vague? . apornographic film. Telefilm is a public agency for taking retrospect, since John Walker: Well, if you just take and we're supposed to make ... (he mentioned that step. you decided to off that Leopardskin Pillbox Hat, the term, "family viewing" and he wasn't Creative do this in a I'll try to oblige you. (shuffling referring to the film). "But", he said, "don't give Exposure rather unorth­ noises) Let me poin t ou t a up on us. When the film is finished, though it is distributes . odoxway scene shot at the Que Brada not our policy, maybe we can do something. " It indepen­ right down the cliffs that appears in the was strange meeting .this person vacationing dent films line, although all beginning of A Winter Tan . from Telefilm, but it made me realize just how through of you came out It is a very gorgeous scene important treatments are as opposed to the bare

···.Uft documen tary. Bu t, my brother and sister-in-law are la wyers who recently moved to London, England. They always looked at me suspidously when I was going on and on about this tradition. After watching British television and British dOcumentaries for two years they said, "Now we know wha tyo u were talking about. "In fact, they have seen more Canadian documentaries on Channel 4and on the BBC than they saw in Canada. And I think this is a great tragedy. thisCanadian country. do cumentaries are not being seen in John Walker: There is an obsession With drama now in Canada and it's hard to fund documenta_ ries. This is what's happening in this country. We're cutting off the umbilical Cord to what We do well. I think that's why A Winter Tan worked. There was a relationship there between documentary technique, cost­ effectiveness, and yet it Was also related to a dramatic form. And there 's a stigma about drama . I mean I've seen Some hOrrible dramas that are not very dramatic and I've seen a lot of dOCUmentaries thaf are very dramatic. I think we have a misperception about what drama is. Yes, We need drama, fiction-drama, but We also need non-fiction drama. I'm all for dramatic films, but let's not divide and say documentaries aren 't dramatic and drama is because it's Scripted and has actors. AudielIce Member: Would youlike to see changesin the key funding organi_ za tions that Would make it simpler? fohn Walker: Yes I Would like to see the inStitutions change. I think we've got a situation in Canada Where We ha ve more support than any other country in the World, in terms of the amount of money, the diversity of support, and yet if you put it all together, there's something Wrong With the system. I Can 't outline it here in 15 minutes be- by the ocean small country, fore lunch, but I think the root of and it Was shot at magic hour. Jackie has to stand we ha ve to Work With small the problem is diviSions. There There were three dialogue scenes, including OVer here because that's the way it has to be. " bUdgets. The HollYWOOd approach to are diviSions between government agencies, some IUnning scenes down the cliff steps and Then you, arguing as a DOP, Would say, "The fiIminaking Was revolutionized When the diviSions between documentary and drama and Some Que Brava divers that were diving off the lightis very poorin that position. "Iithedirector eastern European DOps came in With a there are diviSions in terms of a "sO-called" industrial strategy. cliffs and they all had to be coordinated into one inSists, then it's"Get out the Scaffolding, get out documentary approach. I had lunch With Sven complex scene. It was shot, as I said, as the sun the brutes, run the cables OVer the cliffs. "That Nyk vystwhen he Was viSiting and he's tout~d to I always feel that I'm lOOking at Canada was going down and we had one hour to get the scene Would then have taken us literally a Week be one of the greatest cinematographers in the east-west. I'm always lOOking out to Vancouver scene. With all the choreography and the divers to shoot, rather than the one hour that We did it World. What did he talk about? His documenta_ Or to Newfoundland and half of my brain is in leaping off these 200-foot cliffs and the dialogue, in, and a lot of money Would have been Spent ry experience. He's directed documentaries. the U.S and the other half is in the north, which We managed to Wrap it up in three takes. Bang. unnecessarily. We probably Would have lost H~ '~ com~ from alOW-budget background, With is Wide Open. I think We need to develop Bang. Bang. The reason we could keep it down two gaffers OVer the cliffs as well. l1lInimallighting and small crews. Most of strategies that are connected to the northern side to three takes, and that was our genral shOOting Heckler :Now we're gettin ' somewhere. BeIgman's early 1ihns Were m.de this w.y. Tltis of our psyche ... to the needs of this country. ratio throughout the film, was because there was John Walker: Well, thank you. Filmmaking strength is something that We're denying in this The recent strategy of Atlantis and Primedia, to a relationship between the DOP and the should be fun and it's very depreSsing ... I country. We Want the big deal. .open up developments With ~tgopean partners production crew and there were no huge egos mean .. :raiSing .moner is the most depreSSing This is a particu]arly heartfelt tOpic, so you'll IS a gOod development. I think we need some involved. I could say, for example,"Okay part of filmmaking. It s depreSSing to hear hlve to shut"" up ill go on too long .bo" the co-production to open it up, although often Jackie, you stand there because the Sunlight is people say no. I think the more eXperience you dOOunenfaly "'dition. Aly wile kids me 'bout Canadian material Will suffer as aresult of there and the reflector is here. We can get get, you know who's going to say no so you it, "Oh no, he's going to get on about the foreign Partners. I think often our strategy is this scene shot. If there was a director, don 't'PProach them. I think We hlVe theablJity d""'''''nfaly •gain, " """ use I • ttack anyone based on a HollYWood model, on the American in Canada. to make films that are very there would be an ego there saying, "No, Who ';'lts our house, doctors, 1'''Yem, anyone model. A Winter Tan worked in oPposition to cost -effective because of our eXperience in Who VISItS, about the documentary tradition. PAGI •• this direction. I've Heard the Mennnids Singing d""""enfaly. We h.Ve. rich "'ditlon. We're. And she "ys, "Oh-oh, d""""e.,.'Y tradition, I and Family Viewing are all IUnning in the better get a glass of WhiSky. " She goes for the opposite direction of that model and they are Whisky now When she hears the Word successfully doing that. I'm not against C'N~CANAoA HollywOOd, but I think HollywOOd makes HollywOOd Blrns. Why do them here ?

------'---'------ono...------t CINEMA CAN A D A • So ... there are divisions. There are divisions John Walker: Of course, those films are perfect I've always taken it very seriously. I guess it's a you can get a DOP that's just come off a 13-part between the NFB and the CBC. There 's an old examples. I'm not saying that the fund can't fear that comes from being a cinematographer. series making lots of money but hated it and rivalry going on since CBC got into television . supply that kind of seed money, or CBC. They It 's other people's money and you're making a would love to do a really inno va tive project, and Why they can't resolve it, I don 't know. There all can, they all should. All I'm saying is that big mess of other people's money if you screw might do it for little money. Pull together a team, are divisions between Telefilm and OFDC. One starting point - it's the hardest to get. The other up and you aren't going to continue in the because if the film has a heart and it's got of them will support the project and other says irony is that the completion money is equally as industry. So you have to take it very seriously something that's going to touch people and it's oh ... I don't like this or that in the script. I have hard to find. But the root of it is division. We and be very clear that you can pull it off. I work a worthy project, you' ll find people to workon it friends in Montreal. They have scripts going could go on in an analysis as to why those very closely with my budgets to make sure we -and there are all kinds of ways that you can do back and forth between the Societe Generale de divisions are there historically. You look at the are not going to be over-budget. We didn't want that. But get people who have experience, if it's Quebec and Telefilm. Telefilm likes this CBC, NFB, it's a historical division tha t goes to be over-budget with A Willter Tall, even a feature film, if it 's a big film. I think you need character, but the Societe doesn 't like the other back to 1950. You have to analyze them all in though it was only a $150,000. So it's just to get advice from people It would be a crime if character. The scripts go back and forth between their separate context. Because as I say, we working within your means, and knowing that. Telefilm threw two million dollars at A Winter these two agencies for three years and films are pulled our film together with our own deferrals Part of this whole hype that's going on now Tall. If we had two million dollars, itwould have not getting made. Why? Because of divisions and money from the Canada Council, the about the Canadian film industry, everyone been a waste. We didn't need it. It would ha ve between those organizations. We are a small Ontario Arts Council, the OFD(, and finally thinks industry, they think Hollywood and they changed the film . We wouldn't have made as country, we've got to pull our divisions Telefilm. That's four institutions that were want to get into the bigtime. Well, start small good a film, why spend the money? I think you together, somehow make a link between these pulled together. You close down anyone of and do something well. I would rather see a can get advice from people with ... maybe important organizations. And it's only when them and there's trouble. good 10-minute film with no dialogue, no music, you're starting out with a lO-minute film, go to you link these things together that you create Audiwce Member: I've heard a lot of people say, then sit through 90-minutes of a lO·minute film . someone that's done a half-hour film. Take the something that's successful. "Telefilm said my film is not commercial. There The other strategy if you're from the ladder. John Walker: The Canada Council, for instance, is is no market for this film . " What do you make of entrepreneurial side, producer side, is that if John Walker: Any more questions? completely left out of policy discussions . Flora that? you've got an idea that ' 5 really a good idea and Heckler: Are you really from Toronto? MacDonald announced the $200 million John Walker: I think that is a very difficult thing to it's hot, if people say "Yea, great idea" and John Walker: Yes I am, but it 's no big deal. injection of funds to the industry and no money judge. I mean who would have imagined that you're new to producing but you're willing to Chainnall: If there are no more questions, we will to the Canada Council which was responsible for we could have sold A Winter Tan to japan? slug it out, then my advice would be to go to adjourn for lunch. Thank you John ... (burst of the heart, the seeds, the soul of the three films I Theatrical distribution to japan. I defy anybody talented people with experience. Don 't try to applause and hooting) ... John Walker for mentioned. That's the support you need, you in this room to predict that kind of eventuality. direct it yourself. Go to a director that has speaking to us . need that first dollar. You know, the first dollar Audience Question: How would you change your experience, who is willing to commit to the John Walker Thank you. that comes in is worth a million dollars because strategy if you were doing this at the beginning project because it's a really good project, really Heckler : LET'S DO LUNCH' it gives you the emotional support to continue. of your career? interesting, it has a good heart to it. Find a And that money is coming from the Canada John Walker Well I think theirnportant thing is to director, that director will find a DOP that he or Council and the Ontario Arts Council, in those work within your means. I wouldn 't have set she has worked with who might commit and say (raucous cheers and applause) three fiIms that I've been talking about. out to make a feature film at the start of my okay let's take four weeks off in july and do it, it Heckler :And Fa ustus Bidgood and Life Classes! career. I've always had this fear of the cinema. looks like fun . And you can get a commitment,

The Liaison of Independent Filmmakers of Toronto Congratulates These LIFT members whose films have been selected for Perspective Canada 1988 Toronto Festival of Festivals

Mike Hoolboom From Home Lori Spring Inside/Out Gary Popovich Immoral Memories 1 Kim Derko The Scientific Girl Richard Kerr Last Days of Contrition Colin Brunton The Mysterious Moon Men of Canada Phil Hoffman Passing Through /Torn Formations Roz Owen A Love of Contradiction Camelia Frieberg Crossing the River Judith Doyle Lac La Croix John Greyson Urinal L\FT ,345 Adelaide St. w., Ste . 505, Toronto, Ont., M5V 1R5 (416)596-8233

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