Fishmongers' Hall Inquests

Day 11

April 27, 2021

Opus 2 - Official Court Reporters

Phone: +44 (0)20 3008 5900 Email: [email protected] Website: https://www.opus2.com April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

1 Tuesday, 27 April 2021 1 MR HOUGH: So, DCI Brown, beginning with Usman Khan’s early 2 (10.00 am) 2 life , page 2 of your report, what were his date and 3 (In the presence of the jury) 3 place of birth? 4 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Good 4 A. He was born in Stoke−on−Trent on 10 March 1991. 5 morning, Mr Hough. 5 Q. Is it right that his parents had come to the United 6 MR HOUGH: Good morning, sir. Today’s witness is DCI Dan 6 Kingdom from Pakistan, both separately, and had settled 7 Brown. 7 in Stoke? 8 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Thank you. 8 A. That’s right, yes. 9 DCI DAN BROWN (recalled) 9 Q. Was he the second youngest of seven children of the 10 A. Good morning, sir. 10 family? 11 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Good morning. Officer, you have already 11 A. Yes. 12 been sworn. I don’t require you to be re−sworn. 12 Q. Where did he go to school? 13 A. Thank you, sir. 13 A. He went to school in Stoke−on−Trent, Haywood High 14 Questions by MR HOUGH QC 14 School. 15 MR HOUGH: DCI Brown, when you first gave evidence you 15 Q. That, I think, was from the age of 12? 16 explained to the jury your role as the senior 16 A. From the age of 12, that’s right , yes. 17 investigating officer of Operation Bemadam, the SO15 17 Q. At paragraph 1.6 of your report, did you take an account 18 investigation into the Fishmongers’ Hall attack. 18 from a teacher and head of year for year 12, a Mr Dawes? 19 A. Yes. 19 A. Yes, we did. There was limited records from his time in 20 Q. You understand that today you are giving evidence on the 20 school as a result of GDPR requirements, however, he was 21 life and background of Usman Khan and on his planning 21 able to give us an overview of Khan at school, and he 22 and preparation for the attack on 29 November? 22 described him as being ”no worse than any other 23 A. Yes. 23 student”, described him as having a bit of a chip on his 24 Q. You made a report on those matters which, for the 24 shoulder, had a bit of a teenage swagger, but otherwise 25 lawyers, is {DC6502} but we don’t need it on screen at 25 couldn’t remember any significant incidents around Khan.

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1 the moment. 1 He also couldn’t recall if Khan had been excluded from 2 You appreciate that the purpose of your evidence is 2 school at that time. 3 to lay out a structure of Usman Khan’s life so that the 3 Q. May we bring up a document, {DC5509/1}. Do we see here 4 witnesses who follow can be asked in more detail about 4 a police crime report about Khan’s first contact with 5 their particular roles? 5 the police in 2004, May 2004? 6 A. I do, yes. May I refer to my report during the course 6 A. Yes, that’s right , when he was 13 years old, in year 8 7 of my evidence? 7 at school. I believe he had been having ongoing 8 Q. You may, of course, and I will identify particular parts 8 problems with another individual and they exchanged 9 of it . 9 racial slurs and Khan had assaulted him, attacking him 10 A. Thank you. 10 from behind. I believe he had used the term ”White 11 JUDGE LUCRAFT: And I suspect, Mr Hough, part of the 11 motherfucker”, as it says there, towards this other 12 introduction, in terms of saying that the officer is 12 individual . 13 here to give us the structure is , in a way, also to help 13 Q. This was another boy at the school and I think he kicked 14 those representing interested persons to understand that 14 him in the head? 15 they may have specific questions of witnesses to follow , 15 A. That’s right, yes. He received a youth reprimand for 16 but in many ways the officer is simply laying out the 16 that offence. 17 foundations for those questions that will follow in due 17 Q. As we see, the other boy was noted to be a troublemaker 18 course? 18 and to have his own racist tendencies? 19 MR HOUGH: Yes, sir. From my discussions with counsel 19 A. Absolutely, yes. 20 I think that is well understood. 20 Q. We can take that off screen. Did you obtain further 21 JUDGE LUCRAFT: And officer, it goes without saying, you are 21 information about Khan’s early life from a document 22 likely to be there most of today, I suspect. If you, at 22 called an OASys assessment, which is an assessment of 23 any stage, just want to sit rather than stand whilst 23 offenders tool used in prison? 24 giving your evidence, that’s absolutely fine with me. 24 A. That’s right, yes. This is actually information Khan 25 A. Thank you, I might take you up on that offer later on. 25 provided himself to his probation officer .

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1 Q. If we put on screen {DC5653/11}. If we go to the box at 1 terrorist organisation. 2 the bottom of the page, we can see that he stated that 2 Q. Is it right that both of those two are common 3 he attended the school, Haywood High School, until 3 radicalising influences in the lives of those who goon 4 year 9 when he was expelled at what must have been the 4 to commit terrorist acts in this country? 5 age of 12/13. He then said that he had then gone to 5 A. Yes, that’s true. 6 Pakistan for two months as his mother was ill, and on 6 Q. Did Khan then have further contact with police in 2009 7 return could not go back to Haywood and the only 7 based on a crime report we see at {DC5510/9}. 8 realistic option was to go to a school called James 8 A. Yes, as it says there, really : CCTV picked up two males 9 Brindley High School, but he didn’t want to do that so 9 attacking an individual . A brick was thrown by Khan at 10 he had no further education. Khan said that he had 10 the victim, and Khan and the other individual ran away. 11 completed English level 1 and 2 while in custody, and 11 However, he was later arrested. 12 spoke further about his educational opportunities in 12 It appears that the victim himself was unwilling to 13 prison. 13 make a complaint, however, Khan accepted a police 14 A. That’s right. 14 caution, effectively accepting responsibility for the 15 Q. We can take that down. 15 attack. 16 Did you obtain any more independent or objective 16 Q. So that was 2009. We can take that off screen now. 17 evidence about Khan’s exclusion from school or what 17 Now looking at paragraphs 1.12 and 1.13 of your 18 happened in those early teenage years? 18 report, in the aftermath of the Fishmongers’ Hall 19 A. No, so we assume that he was excluded as a result of the 19 attack, did you obtain information from press reports 20 assault , however, that’s not confirmed in any records 20 about Usman Khan’s preaching activities in the years 21 that are available to us. However, he also told 21 2008 to 2010? 22 Mr Skelton that at the age of 18, having been expelled 22 A. That’s right, yes. So we know that he was preaching 23 from school and having been to Pakistan, he then began 23 Islamic extremism on behalf of Anjem Choudary’s 24 to associate with those involved in criminality . He 24 organisation, ALM, involved in what are calling da’wah 25 said himself that he was involved in gang culture. 25 stalls , manning those stalls in Stoke−on−Trent, a place

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1 He also told us that −− Mr Skelton was told by Khan 1 called Cobridge. 2 that −− he said he was not involved in religion at the 2 Q. Al−Muhajiroun, for the jury is, is this right , 3 time but eventually built up grievances with regards to 3 a proscribed organisation, a banned organisation, which 4 what was taking place in Kashmir, and then he began to 4 has been associated with many of those who have 5 educate himself via the internet around the Islamic 5 committed serious terrorist outrages in the UK? 6 faith . 6 A. That’s right, that’s correct , yes. 7 Q. Now, just to be clear, that information, that Usman Khan 7 Q. And when you say that Khan was involved in giving da’wah 8 had become involved in the gang culture, then developed 8 or preaching da’wah, that is simply a word for preaching 9 a grievance about Kashmir, and then educated himself in 9 or proselytising , and this was typically , is this right , 10 religion , is all information he gave −− 10 on stalls in town centres and the like? 11 A. That’s right. 11 A. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. 12 Q. −− to Mr Skelton, the probation officer, and, is this 12 Q. If we put on screen {DC6502/4}, look at the images in 13 right , as we’ ll hear, some of the information he gave to 13 the middle of the screen. Do we see there a section 14 Mr Skelton, the probation officer , can’t be relied upon? 14 from your report with images shown of Usman Khan 15 A. Absolutely. 15 preaching and waving a black flag? 16 Q. Looking at paragraph 1.10 of your report, page 4, did 16 A. Yes. 17 you, however, obtain more reliable evidence that Khan 17 Q. We can take that off screen now. 18 had begun to be attracted to extremist Islam while in 18 Did that activity attract the attention of the 19 his teens? 19 Staffordshire Police? 20 A. That’s right, yes. So we believe that he started to 20 A. Yes, that’s right , as a result of some of that activity 21 take an interest in the teachings or the online 21 where there was suspicion that there were a group of 22 preachings of two prominent Muslim figures, the deceased 22 individuals promoting violent extremism and radicalising 23 Yemeni−American cleric Anwar al−Awlaki, and Islamic 23 members of the community, search warrants took place 24 preacher Anjem Choudary, who was leader of the 24 under what was known as Operation Aragorn in July of 25 Al−Muhajiroun, ALM, organisation, which is a prohibited 25 2008.

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1 Q. Was one of the Terrorism Act search warrants executed at 1 A. They separated and there was no further contact from 2 an address of Khan’s sister on the basis that he was 2 that point onwards. 3 living there at the time? 3 Q. May we move on, then, to Operation Guava, which you 4 A. That’s right, yes. 4 address from page 7 of your report. What was the first 5 Q. If we could put on screen {DC6052/5}. Sorry, 5 counter−terrorist operation which involved Khan? 6 {DC6502/5}, I gave a wrong reference. If we look at the 6 A. So the first one was Operation Aragorn, as I’ve just 7 two images on screen together, what does the first of 7 mentioned, there were concerns around radicalisation and 8 those images show? 8 promoting extremism, which included Khan, and obviously 9 A. So this is a press conference held the following day, 9 the search warrant was conducted at his sister ’s 10 and within that press conference you can see Khan on the 10 address. 11 right−hand side, and then he later gave an interview to 11 Q. Now, did Khan later express a view on the effect of that 12 the BBC at the same event where he said those words 12 search on him, his reputation and his attitudes? 13 that: 13 A. Yes. He said it played a big factor in who he became, 14 ”I’ve been born and bread in England, in 14 and he said: 15 Stoke−on−Trent, in Cobridge, and all the community knows 15 ”My reputation was ruined, the raids turned my life 16 me and they will know... I ain’t no terrorist .” 16 upside down.” 17 Q. Perhaps your microphone could just be brought a little 17 Q. Of course, his statement that it had ruined his 18 closer to you so your voice is up. Thank you. 18 reputation has to be set against the fact that he was, 19 The next image on the page, what does that show? 19 himself, appearing on these stalls , and associating 20 A. So that shows Anjem Choudary and Khan on the right−hand 20 publicly with figures like Anjem Choudary? 21 side at a conference promoting Shari’a law in the UK. 21 A. Yes, that’s right . 22 Q. So we can take that page down. 22 Q. Looking at paragraph 2.4 of your report, what sort of 23 In addition to being connected with Anjem Choudary 23 materials were seized from Usman Khan’s premises in that 24 of ALM on that occasion, was Khan also linked to 24 search in July 2008? 25 Choudary’s Islam4UK group? 25 A. So there was some −− what would be termed as extremist

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1 A. Yes, that’s right , and again, that’s another proscribed 1 material, notebooks, et cetera, however −− and 2 organisation under the Terrorism Act. 2 fundamentalist material, however none which actually 3 Q. If we look, please, at a Staffordshire Special Branch 3 breached terrorism legislation or justified or met the 4 profile of Usman Khan, {WS5059−2A/1}, and if we go to 4 threshold for a prosecution. 5 {WS5059−2A/10} can we see an entry, 11 January went: 5 Q. I think that was assessed by an expert before that 6 ”Members of the Stoke Islam4UK group (including 6 decision was made? 7 Usman Khan, Abdul Rashid, Joseph Holland and Mohibur 7 A. That’s right, yes, we have independent experts who will 8 Rahman) appeared in the sentinel pictured with 2 signs 8 look at this type of material and give an opinion. 9 saying ’Islam will dominate the world’ and ’ALM the 9 Q. Paragraph 2.6 on page 8 now. In January 2010, was a new 10 voice, the eyes, the ears of the Muslims’.” 10 operation, Operation Norbury, commenced as an offshoot 11 A. Yes, that’s right . 11 of Operation Aragorn? 12 Q. We can take that off screen now. 12 A. Yes, and this was focusing on a number of 13 Moving to page 6 of your report, is it right that 13 Stoke−on−Trent−based Islamic extremists who harboured 14 during this time, 2010, Usman Khan began a relationship 14 aspirations and intention to travel abroad and engage in 15 with a young woman? 15 violent jihadist activity . 16 A. That’s correct, yes. And he met her through a community 16 Q. Was any such travelling identified in the case of 17 contact. 17 Usman Khan? 18 Q. Did they proceed to take part in an unofficial Muslim 18 A. Yes, in the summer of 2010, Khan travelled to Pakistan 19 wedding ceremony? 19 with another individual , apparently to study. 20 A. Yes, that’s true, yes. However, they never lived 20 Q. Was that individual Mohammed Shahjahan who later became 21 together as man and wife. 21 a co−defendant with Khan in −− 22 Q. In short, did they maintain contact during his early 22 A. That’s right, yes, it was. 23 years in prison? 23 Q. And this operation, I think, was later known 24 A. Yes. 24 as Operation Guava? 25 Q. But in around 2014, did they separate? 25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. Did it lead to arrests and prosecutions? 1 property or life . 2 A. Yes, so nine individuals were ultimately arrested and 2 Q. Was he remanded into custody? 3 subsequently convicted of terrorism offences. 3 A. That’s true, he was, yes. 4 Q. Just to understand the nature of the offending, were 4 Q. From, I think, 27 December 2010? 5 these individuals divided into three groups? 5 A. Yes. 6 A. Yes, three groups based in London, Cardiff, and 6 Q. Did he then remain in custody from that point until the 7 Stoke−on−Trent, which is the group that Khan was 7 end of 2018, in fact? 8 involved in with three other individuals . 8 A. That’s correct. 9 Q. There were three groups, London, Cardiff and Stoke, with 9 Q. Did he plead guilty to any of those offences? 10 Khan, along with three others, a member of the Stoke 10 A. He pleaded guilty to the section 5 offence, the engaging 11 group? 11 in conduct, preparation, and specifically with regards 12 A. Yes. 12 to the funding and the planning to build a terrorist 13 Q. We’re going to look at some details of this case from 13 training facility in Pakistan. 14 the sentencing remarks of Mr Justice Wilkie, and it’s 14 Q. Did the prosecution accept that plea to the various 15 {DC5000/3}. If we focus on paragraph 9, do we see that 15 charges? 16 the judge refers to the members of these three groups 16 A. They did, yes, that’s right . 17 having been involved in preaching radical Islamic , or 17 Q. If we return to Mr Justice Wilkie’s sentencing remarks 18 da’wah, having come to know each other through a network 18 to see the basis of the plea, {DC5000/5}. If we go to 19 of meetings and having decided to engage in conduct 19 paragraph 19 at the bottom of the page, and we start 20 preparatory to violence? 20 five lines down: 21 A. Yes. 21 ”The first defendants to plead guilty were 3 ofthe 22 Q. And do we see that the judge accepted that they had been 22 Stoke defendants, Usman Khan, Shahjahan, and Hussain, 23 motivated by a magazine called Inspire produced by 23 who pleaded guilty to count 9. The basis of that plea 24 Al−Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. 24 was as follows: first , they were trying to raise funds 25 Moving to {DC5000/5} and focus on paragraph 15, do 25 to build a madrassa beside an already existing mosque in

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1 we see there that the judge records that 1 Kashmir...” 2 between November and December 2010, the security 2 A madrassa can mean an Islamic school? 3 services had become aware of the nine men in the three 3 A. Yes. 4 groups, and had mounted what was a highly sophisticated 4 Q. But is this right : is often, in the context of these 5 and effective monitoring operation? 5 sorts of cases, a euphemism for a terrorism training 6 A. That’s correct. 6 facility ? 7 Q. Leading to arrests on 21 December? 7 A. Yes, that’s true. 8 A. Yes. 8 Q. Going on: 9 Q. If we then move to {DC5097−1/11}, and if we look at the 9 ”Second, the long−term plan included making the 10 upper part of the page, we’re seeing here, I think, part 10 madrassa available for men who would be fighting to 11 of the opening note from Andrew Edis QC, the prosecutor 11 bring Shari’a [Islamic law] to Kashmir in Pakistan: 12 in the trial that followed, and if we look at the top, 12 third , the plan included some, including at least one of 13 do we see that the monitoring revealed discussions on 13 the Stoke defendants, being able to have firearms 14 15 December 2010 at Usman Khan’s address between Khan 14 training in or around the madrassa; fourth, they did not 15 and another male about how to construct a pipe bomb from 15 intend to participate in an act of terrorism in the UK 16 a recipe referred to in the AQ magazine, Inspire? 16 in the immediate future. Fifth, they contemplated that, 17 A. That’s correct, yes. 17 once trained, they might return to the UK and engage in 18 Q. We can take that off screen now. 18 some sort of terrorist activity but there was no 19 Looking back at your report, page 9, for what 19 timetable, no targets identified , nor any method agreed. 20 offences was Usman Khan arrested? 20 The Crown on its part agreed that it would not allege 21 A. So he was arrested for offences contrary to section 5of 21 that those defendants [including Khan] were criminally 22 the Terrorism Act, that’s engaging in conduct in 22 liable ... in [a] planned attack on the 23 preparation for terrorist acts, and also offences under 23 London Stock Exchange...” 24 the Explosive Substances Act, section 3, that is 24 Which I think was a plan by other members of the 25 conspiring to cause an explosion likely to endanger 25 groups?

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1 A. That’s right, yes. 1 JUDGE LUCRAFT: But I think the other part of it is that the 2 Q. So taking that down, the basis of Khan’s guilty plea, 2 extension of the sentence would mean he would be on the 3 what he accepted before the court, was that he had 3 extended period of that sentence for a longer period, so 4 conspired with others to set up a terrorist training 4 the 21−year sentence? 5 camp in Pakistan which might in due course send back 5 A. Yes, so essentially a longer licence period, yes. 6 fighters to commit outrages in the UK, but which didn’t 6 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Yes, A longer licence period. 7 have specific plans or timetables for that at the time? 7 MR HOUGH: So he would be on licence for longer and for that 8 A. That’s right, yes. 8 period could be recalled to prison −− 9 Q. So that’s the basis of the offence, which he accepted, 9 A. Yes. 10 which we need to bear in mind when we later read what he 10 Q. −− if his conduct justified it ? 11 said about the nature of his offending. 11 A. That’s right. 12 A. Yes. 12 Q. In simple terms, was the appeal allowed because the 13 Q. What sentence was Usman Khan given? 13 Court of Appeal rejected the judge’s view that the Stoke 14 A. So in 2012, in February 2012, he was initially given 14 defendants were, in fact , more dangerous than the London 15 an indeterminate sentence of imprisonment for public 15 defendants? 16 protection. The custodial determinate sentence was 16 A. Yes, that’s essentially correct . 17 16 years. 17 Q. Turning, then, to Khan’s period in prison, if we could 18 Q. What did that mean in practice? 18 put on screen {DC6502/10} and expand the bottom half. 19 A. So that meant that he would serve a minimum of eight 19 Can you run through the prisons in which Khan served the 20 years as a minimum fixed term before he could be 20 next eight years? 21 considered for release on a temporary licence by 21 A. Yes, so the first prison he went into was HMP Belmarsh 22 a stringent Parole Board review, ie a Parole Board would 22 in London, before moving to Wakefield, and then 23 have to be satisfied that it was safe for him tobe 23 returning to Belmarsh in July of 2012. He then moved 24 released at that point. 24 onto HMP Long Lartin in 2013, and then onto 25 Q. So in 2012, the sentence that was passed meant that Khan 25 HMP Frankland, before moving to Manchester in 2014,

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1 would serve at least eight years, but thereafter could 1 HMP Manchester, and then on to Woodhill. Then in July 2 only be released with Parole Board approval? 2 of 2016 he then moved to HMP Whitemoor where he spent 3 A. That’s correct, yes. He was also given a terrorism 3 the vast majority of the rest of his sentence before 4 notification period of 30 years. 4 moving to HMP Woodhill, only a few days before he was 5 Q. Was there then an appeal to the Court of Appeal, which 5 released on 13 December 2018. Whitemoor isn’t a release 6 resulted in that sentence being varied? 6 prison, so they have to be released from HMP Woodhill. 7 A. Yes, that’s right , that appeal took place in March of 7 Q. We can take that off screen now. 8 2013, and the appeal was varied. 8 Was Khan categorised as category A and high risk 9 Q. What was the variation? 9 throughout his time in prison? 10 A. So he was given a determinate sentence, namely an 10 A. Yes, that’s right , all the way through. 11 extended sentence of 21 years, of which the custodial 11 Q. As we’ve heard, is a category A prisoner one whose 12 period was 16 years’ imprisonment, with an extension of 12 escape would be highly dangerous to the public? 13 five years. However, this meant he would serve eight 13 A. That’s correct. 14 years in prison and the remainder of the sentence on 14 Q. Are category A prisoners divided into three 15 licence , so therefore there was no longer a requirement 15 subcategories based on risk of escape: standard, high or 16 to satisfy the Parole Board prior to release . 16 exceptional? 17 Q. So the simple effect of the appeal, boiling it down for 17 A. Yes. 18 our purposes to its essentials , was that following the 18 Q. So the high risk refers to the risk or prospect of him 19 appeal, he would still serve a term of eight years −− 19 escaping? 20 A. Yes. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. −− but whereas before he would have had to satisfy 21 Q. As we’ve heard already, and as we’ll hear in more detail 22 a Parole Board that he was safe to be released, the 22 from Prison Service witnesses, is it right that there 23 effect of the appeal was that he would be released after 23 are typically less than 100 category A high risk 24 eight years without Parole Board approval? 24 prisoners in the entire prison estate? 25 A. That’s correct. 25 A. That’s true, yes.

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1 Q. Looking now from page 11 of your report, is it right 1 happened during his course of imprisonment. 2 that Khan’s prison history was eventful and complex, 2 Q. Thank you. Page {DC6503/866}, please, an entry for 3 extensively documented in the prison intelligence 3 14 January 2012, and over the page {DC6503/867}, do we 4 records? 4 see that after the arrival of Khan on F wing in 5 A. Yes, I think the records that we received were in excess 5 Wakefield, a large number of Muslim prisoners were 6 of sort of 2,000 pages worth of material. 6 choosing to wear religious clothing most of the time? 7 Q. And were there numerous reports referring to him at 7 A. That’s right, yes, the insinuation that Khan was 8 various stages as a radical Islamist and as a senior 8 influencing those prisoners . 9 figure among extremists in the prisons? 9 Q. Page {DC6503/171}, please. Do we see here an entry for 10 A. Yes, that was fairly consistent throughout his period in 10 a significant incident in June 2012. 11 custody. 11 A. That’s right, yes, where he entered the netting area on 12 Q. Were there also various incidents of disruptive 12 the wing, and recited a poem, which included the phrase 13 behaviour and violence in which he was either directly 13 ”Cut off the kuffar ’s head”, kuffar meaning disbeliever, 14 or indirectly involved? 14 or non−believer. 15 A. Yes. 15 Q. Entering the netting, is that jumping on protective 16 Q. And various pieces of intelligence suggesting that he 16 netting between different levels ? 17 was responsible for radicalising others? 17 A. That’s right, yes, so there’s balconies around, and most 18 A. Yes. 18 people have seen in the media how prisoners are set out 19 Q. Now, I’m going to go through now some key entries in the 19 and the netting to stop people falling all the way 20 prison records, principally the Mercury Intelligence 20 through, and again, that’s a behaviour that he conducted 21 record kept by the Prison Service, which I think is 21 on several occasions. 22 a digital record on which Prison Service employees can 22 Q. Reciting a poem with the words ”Cut off the kuffar’s 23 make records of intelligence they can give or have 23 head”. 24 received? 24 A. Yes. 25 A. That’s right, and we received all of those from the 25 Q. And then {DC6503/129}, please, shortly after this,

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1 Prison Service early on in the investigation . 1 27 June 2012, an entry which we see on the following 2 Q. Beginning first with Khan’s time in 2 page {DC6503/130}. Do we see that on this occasion, 3 Belmarsh, December 2010 to February 2011, may we have on 3 shortly after that episode, Khan had almost broken 4 screen {DC6503/822}. If we look at the entire pages for 4 through to the next cell , damaging his own cell? 5 these documents, please, rather than zeroing−in on part, 5 A. Yes. 6 we can see this is an entry for 8 January 2011. Over 6 Q. And that an address was found that was written down. 7 the page, please {DC6503/823}. We can now just go to 7 What was that address? 8 the top. Khan, according to this intelligence , had 8 A. It was the address of −− believed to be that −− the 9 suggested he had access to a weapon, was going to ”do 9 address of the governor, the prison governor. 10 someone in the eye” or in the neck, and that he wanted 10 Q. So the home address of somebody of governor grade? 11 to die and go to paradise? 11 A. Yes. 12 A. Yes. 12 Q. Was there also evidence at this time of other prisoners 13 Q. Then did Khan in February 2011 move to HMP Wakefield? 13 damaging their cells at the same time? 14 A. Yes, that’s right . 14 A. Yes. Again, demonstrating that Khan potentially had 15 Q. Page 742 of the same document, please {DC6503/742}. 15 an influence over others. 16 A report for 6 March 2011, and over the page 16 Q. Was it as a result of these incidents that Khan was 17 {DC6503/743}, do we see here that on 6 March 2011, Khan 17 initially categorised as high risk? 18 and others were reported to have been involved in 18 A. Yes. 19 an attack on another prisoner during which shouts of 19 Q. {DC6503/675}, please. Do we see at the bottom of the 20 ”Allah Akbar”, or ”God is great” were made? 20 page that on 18 July 2012, going over the page, Khan 21 A. Yes, that’s right . 21 refused to return to his cell saying that he would smash 22 Q. {DC6503/297}, please. November 2011, do we see an entry 22 it up unless put in segregation? 23 referring to Khan and others shouting during the 23 A. Yes, that’s right , so deliberately behaving so that he 24 two−minute silence on Armistice Day? 24 would be put into segregation, which again is a theme we 25 A. Yes, and this was the first on several occasions that 25 saw throughout the course of his imprisonment.

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1 Q. So various episodes in which Khan actively sought to go 1 Q. Then page {DC6503/1066}, please. 2 into segregation, as we saw last week, Khan later 2 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Sorry, just before, was that while he was 3 claimed that segregation had been an unfair punishment? 3 still at Long Lartin, because I think the date changes 4 A. Yes. 4 in July of that year to Frankland. 5 Q. In July 2012, was Khan transferred into the high secure 5 MR HOUGH: If we go to the previous page, so {DC6503/1055}, 6 unit in Belmarsh? 6 and, sorry , the page before that {DC6503/1054}, just to 7 A. Yes. 7 get the date. So this is an event −− it’s an event 8 Q. Was an attempt made to engage him in a process called 8 while he was at Frankland, but referring to supporting 9 extremism risk guidance, which I think is an assessment 9 intelligence which may have been developed partly at 10 method used for extremist prisoners, often involving 10 Long Lartin. 11 prison psychologists? 11 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Long Lartin, thank you. 12 A. Yes, that’s right , and he declined to take part in that, 12 MR HOUGH: Then page {DC6503/1066} please, do we see here 13 or refused to take part in that, on the basis, I think, 13 an event dated 11 July 2013, and under ”Report text”, 14 that his appeal was still ongoing at that stage. 14 the last line referring to Khan as the Muslim leader for 15 Q. We can take −− moving on, as we’ve seen, Khan was 15 foxtrot , or F wing. 16 requesting to be moved to segregation. Did you identify 16 A. F wing Muslim leader, yes. 17 any reasons why he was making that request? 17 Q. Then looking at paragraph 3.13 of your report, which is 18 A. Yes. So he −− we believe he sought to be in the same 18 on page 12, was further intelligence or information 19 segregation wing as Abu Hamza who, again, is a well 19 received about Khan while he was at Long Lartin? 20 known extremist who the jury will be familiar with. 20 A. Yes, so he had been provided some medication by the 21 Q. At the same time was there evidence of communication by 21 healthcare team including a chemical known as anhydrol 22 Khan with his then partner, the young woman he hadn’t 22 forte which contains aluminium chloride hexahydrate 23 broken up from at that stage? 23 which potentially could be used in the creation of 24 A. Yes, so he was still able to use the telephone and was 24 incendiary devices. So Khan’s cell was subsequently 25 speaking to her. 25 searched and similar chemicals were found stockpiled.

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1 Q. And did he tell her in writing that he intended to do 1 So there were several bottles including several unknown 2 a de−radicalisation course and to change? 2 liquids . So the intimation he had been given these 3 A. Yes. However, he was still assessed as a radical 3 chemicals for health reasons and actually hadn’t taken 4 figure . 4 them, he had stockpiled them. He was unable to create 5 Q. Is this again a theme that one sometimes sees 5 an IED at that stage because he wouldn’t have had all 6 indications from Khan that he’s going to change, at the 6 the other necessary component parts, however, still very 7 same time as evidence or activity suggesting 7 concerning that he was stockpiling this kind of 8 radicalisation ? 8 material. 9 A. Underlying activity , absolutely. 9 Q. As you’ve told us, he was transferred to Frankland, HMP 10 Q. As you’ve told us, Khan moved to Long Lartin 10 Frankland in July 2013. What was the reason for that 11 in January 2013. May we go to page {DC6503/1081} of the 11 transfer? 12 Mercury record, and do we see here an entry for 12 A. It was a part of a strategy to break up terrorist 13 30 May 2013, in which Khan was radicalising or rallying 13 nominals within the prison system. 14 and influencing other Muslims? 14 Q. Is it specifically to break up such prisoners who have 15 A. Yes, that’s right , yes. 15 gained a power base in a particular prison? 16 Q. What, in summary, was this entry saying? 16 A. Yes, as we’ve seen Khan seemed to have developed some 17 A. That he was encouraging them to wear Muslim dress and to 17 sort of leadership and therefore they wanted to break 18 take on Muslim names and threatening prisoners who 18 that up. 19 questioned prayer, Muslim prayer. 19 Q. At this stage was he placed in a unit, referred to as 20 Q. And page {DC6503/1056}, please. Do we see here an entry 20 a Managing Challenging Behaviour Strategy, or MCBS unit? 21 which I think is for July 2013, in which Khan is 21 A. That’s right, yes. That’s a small unit for prisoners 22 described as being responsible for intimidating 22 who present a high risk from their behaviour. 23 behaviour towards staff, and known to try to convert 23 Q. So prisoners chosen for that unit because they pose 24 others? That’s under ”Supporting intelligence”? 24 serious risks to other inmates and staff? 25 A. Yes, that’s right . 25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. Can we have on screen {DC5587/1}. This is a Managing 1 A. That’s right, yes. 2 Challenging Behaviour Strategy quarterly case review 2 Q. Is it right that Khan later admitted the attack on the 3 from August 2013 during this time at Frankland. 3 prisoner but claimed that he had hit the chaplain by 4 If we go to the bottom of the page, can we see that 4 mistake? 5 right at the last line , Khan is asked about his views 5 A. Yes. 6 about his index offence, so that’s the offence that’s 6 Q. Then {DC6503/964}, please, do we see another entry for 7 put him in prison, and he said that he used to hold −− 7 21 November 2013, so the same day, involving a search of 8 over the page −− he used to hold extremist views in the 8 Khan’s cell? 9 past but that he doesn’t hold them now. 9 A. That’s right, yes, and a loose razor blade taped to the 10 A. That’s right, yes. 10 underside of his cell locker draw was found. 11 Q. He said he spoke to the imam at Belmarsh and has changed 11 Q. So a hidden weapon in the form of a loose razor blade? 12 how he views things. 12 A. That’s right, yes. 13 A. Yes. 13 Q. Moving on and looking at paragraph 3.24 of your report, 14 Q. And he referred to himself as an angry teenager who got 14 did Khan then transfer to HMP Manchester in a specialist 15 a sense of identity from Islam? 15 intervention unit in January 2014? 16 A. Yes. 16 A. That’s right, yes. 17 Q. May we then return to the Mercury Intelligence record 17 Q. What was the nature of that unit? 18 for September 2013, {DC6503/1029}. This is an entry 18 A. So this was to be involved in the MCBS programme, which 19 for September 2019, and do we see that Khan is referred 19 is basically managing challenging behaviours, so this is 20 to four or five lines down, as having been a disruptive 20 for people with specific needs to be more suitably 21 and challenging prisoner, one who had gained a power 21 addressed within a small, highly supervised environment. 22 base at Long Lartin, and had been reported as operating 22 So I think there were six cells within that wing, so not 23 Shari’a law within the establishment? 23 segregation, but a very small unit. 24 A. That’s right, yes. 24 Q. Is it right , summarising Khan’s time in prison, that he 25 Q. Then moving on to {DC6503/950} of the same document, are 25 spent significant periods in these small units with

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1 we now looking at a Mercury Intelligence record for some 1 a small number of cells? 2 incidents which took place in November 2013? 2 A. That’s right, yes, but not necessarily segregated or 3 A. Yes. 3 isolated . 4 Q. In summary, what happened in these incidents? 4 Q. But a much smaller proportion of time actually in 5 A. I believe that some sugar was found in his cell , again, 5 segregation? 6 a stockpile of sugar. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. No, I think this is a different incident . 7 Q. And when he later told Learning Together in the video 8 A. Ah, sorry. 8 that he had spent most of his time in segregation, that 9 So this is in relation to an assault, I think. 9 wasn’t true? 10 Q. Yes, it ’s dealt with from paragraphs 3.21 to 3.23 of 10 A. That’s absolutely right . 11 your report. 11 Q. If we put on screen {DC5320/1} was a report produced 12 A. That’s right, yes. An incident in an exercise yard 12 around this time, so April 2014, within the ERG process, 13 where a number of Muslim prisoners attempted to assault 13 Extremism Risk Guidance process, providing an assessment 14 two [non−]Muslim prisoners. 14 of Khan by a prison psychologist? 15 Q. That I think was on 17 November, Khan being involved in 15 A. That’s right, yes. 16 an incident with an assault by several Muslim prisoners 16 Q. If we go to {DC5320/13}, do we see at paragraph 9.1 at 17 in somewhere called the top compound? 17 the bottom of the page, throughout most of the 18 A. Yes. 18 interviews , Khan maintained that he had been doing 19 Q. And is it right that later , on 21 November 2013, Khan 19 nothing wrong, he had been preaching about Islam, and 20 attacked the same prisoner in his cell ? 20 then as a result of police and EDL −− English Defence 21 A. That’s right, and I believe that a chaplain was also 21 League −− 22 injured within that incident . 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. So a Church of England chaplain was caught up in 23 Q. −− harassment, he decided to move to Pakistan and to 24 an attack in which Khan assaulted a prisoner in his 24 open a madrassa to offer free education to all? 25 cell ? 25 A. That’s right, yes. Obviously he had earlier pleaded

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1 guilty to an offence which is contrary to what he had 1 screen, {DC6503/1564}. Can we see here an entry in the 2 said there. 2 Mercury Intelligence record for 18 June 2015, 3 Q. And that while there would be firearms training at the 3 intelligence suggesting that Khan is known to be 4 school in Kashmir, he never intended to harm anyone? 4 a Muslim enforcer in the prison? 5 A. That’s right. 5 A. That’s right, yes. 6 Q. But over the page {DC5320/14}, paragraph 9.2, did the 6 Q. Then {DC6503/1566} we see further detail. Do we see 7 psychologist identify risk factors within all aspects of 7 there reference to Khan seeking to impress a higher 8 the assessment process? 8 ranking terrorist prisoner while impressing his status 9 A. Yes. 9 on the ”lower ranks”? 10 Q. ”Indeed there is evidence that risk factors within all 10 A. Exactly, yes, again, this concept of him requiring 11 three dimensions of the ERG ... are manifesting within 11 status, which is something we have seen before. 12 [ his ] custodial behaviour.” 12 Q. And {DC6503/1441}, please. Do we see here an entry 13 A. That’s right, yes. 13 for July 2015? 14 Q. We can take that off screen. These sorts of reports 14 A. Yes. 15 will be looked at in more detail with some of those 15 Q. And does this refer to a specific incident of incitement 16 responsible for them. 16 to violence? 17 Later in 2014, in June of 2014, did Khan enter 17 A. Yes, so it was −− again, inciting an individual to 18 HMP Woodhill in another small unit? 18 assault somebody within the prison system. 19 A. Yes, another MCBS unit, similar to the one in 19 Q. And, again, a reference to Khan being the sort of person 20 Manchester, but the maximum custody of 10 prisoners on 20 that wants to impress others? 21 this occasion. 21 A. That’s right. 22 Q. I am looking at paragraph 3.27 of your report on 22 Q. And page {DC6503/1457}, please. Can we see here further 23 page 14, did Khan engage in something called the Healthy 23 intelligence from the same time suggesting that Khan was 24 Identity Intervention programme in 2014 to 2015? 24 leading a gang who were planning to assault staff, and 25 A. Yes, that’s right . 25 that a prisoner was assaulted because of disagreeing

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1 Q. What, in a sentence or two, was that programme? 1 with that plan? 2 A. It ’s a programme to really sort of challenge the views 2 A. Yes. 3 and mindset of those prisoners who have an extremist 3 Q. Following this incident , so July 2015, was Khan sent 4 mindset, or extremist views, and are in prison for these 4 back to the MCBS unit? 5 kind of offences. 5 A. Yes, as I said, yes. 6 Q. So he completed that programme, but did intelligence 6 Q. Then {DC6503/1488}, please, was there further 7 continue to demonstrate signs of more negative 7 intelligence from the same time suggesting that Khan was 8 behaviour? 8 heading a bullying gang within the prison? 9 A. Yes. 9 A. That’s right. 10 Q. If we could put on screen {DC6503/1697}, we see here, 10 Q. And he was placed on something called basic regime. Is 11 I think, an intelligence report from October 2014. 11 that a basic regime of privileges ? 12 A. Yes. 12 A. Essentially , yes. Yes. 13 Q. And do we see that the intelligence was suggesting that 13 Q. So you wouldn’t get certain things, like televisions and 14 an inmate had a definite plan to kill a member of 14 videos and things of that sort? 15 civilian staff , and that it was believed that Mr Khan 15 A. So hence you would lose your television, yes. 16 had potentially influenced that inmate? 16 Q. Then {DC6503/1367}, please, of the Mercury record. 17 A. Yes, again, influencing others. 17 Looking at the very bottom of the page, can we see 18 Q. In June 2015, was Khan moved from the small MCBS unit to 18 an entry, 2 September 2015, intelligence suggesting that 19 a more normal location in the prison? 19 Khan had extremist beliefs and that he had stated that 20 A. I believe so, yes. 20 all staff with keys are ” fair game”. 21 Q. That’s paragraph 3.28 of your report. 21 A. That’s right. 22 A. Thank you, yes. But he was then shortly returned to the 22 Q. In the sense of being a potential target for attack. 23 MCBS unit after concerns were raised about the influence 23 A. Correct. 24 he had on other prisoners. 24 Q. In November 2015, was there a report produced at the end 25 Q. May we now go to page 1564 of the document we have on 25 of the Healthy Identity Intervention programme which

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1 you’ve described Khan going on? 1 long record with all the individual entries , 2 A. Yes, could you just refer me to my report, please, sir ? 2 {DC6503/1251}, do we see an entry for 3 July 2016, the 3 Q. Well, I ’ ll show you the report produced after that 3 middle of the page, yes? 4 intervention , it ’s {DC5321/1}. Can you confirm that 4 A. Yes. 5 this ERG report was produced after the HII intervention? 5 Q. And then over the page, please {DC6503/1252}, do we see 6 A. That is correct , yes, February 2016. 6 that from the top of the page, reference to Khan 7 Q. Then {DC5321/7}, please. 7 speaking to his family about a plan to relocate to 8 Sorry, if we go back, I need paragraph 5.1, I think 8 Pakistan on his release? 9 I may have given the wrong page reference. Yes. Khan 9 A. Yes, and that’s a theme that we saw again and again, 10 again showing evidence of various factors of risk . If 10 this desire to return to Pakistan. 11 we go down the page to 5.3, these were factors 11 Q. So throughout the prison intelligence and the prison 12 concerning: grievance, identity , status, excitement, and 12 records, we see a series of references to Khan wanting 13 over the page {DC5321/5}, susceptibility to 13 to move to Pakistan after his release? 14 indoctrination −− 14 A. That’s right, yes. 15 A. Yes. 15 Q. You’ve told us that in July 2016, Khan transferred to 16 Q. −− political motivation, association with others who 16 the last prison where he spent any significant time, 17 supported extremism and so on. We’ll go into those in 17 HMP Whitemoor? 18 more detail. 18 A. Yes. 19 {DC5321/9}, please, paragraph 7.1, can we see that 19 Q. And we’re particularly concerned with this prison 20 the assessor says that it ’s difficult to identify any 20 because it was his prison for the final years of his 21 reduction in the risk of re−offending with confidence, 21 time in custody. 22 but there is some evidence of positive insight and 22 A. That’s right. 23 goals? 23 Q. You deal with it from paragraph 3.35 of your report. On 24 A. Yes. 24 his transfer , did his status within the Managing 25 Q. And did the assessor then go on, at the bottom of the 25 Challenging Behaviour Strategy programme change?

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1 page, to recommend a further prison intervention called 1 A. It did, yes. So there was an indication of improved 2 the Thinking Skills Programme, TSP? 2 behaviour and that in fact his outlook was more positive 3 A. That’s correct, yes. 3 and his actions again were more positive. 4 Q. What was TSP, in a sentence or two? 4 Q. Did that lead to him being managed in a different way 5 A. So it ’s essentially a programme for him to reflect on 5 under that programme? 6 his index offending and his mindset, to hopefully 6 A. Yes, so his status moved from being centrally managed to 7 rehabilitate him away from the sort of extremist views. 7 locally managed under the MCBS. 8 Q. In June 2016, so a little time after this report, was 8 Q. And what does that mean, translating for us? 9 a review carried out of Khan’s escape risk 9 A. Well, prison officers are probably better placed to 10 classification , so whether he should stay category A 10 answer that question, but in reality it ’s a more 11 high risk? 11 localised approach, so he would have been more in the 12 A. Yes. 12 mainstream prison. 13 Q. If we look at {DC5336/1}. Sorry, I’ve given a wrong 13 Q. May we now go to page 1228 of the document on screen, so 14 reference. We’ll come back to the reference if needed. 14 {DC6503/1228}. Do we see here a record, an intelligence 15 But, looking at paragraph 3.34 of your report, did 15 record, for August 2016, so shortly after his arrival at 16 the escape risk classification review note that there 16 Whitemoor? 17 was some improvement in Khan’s conduct, but he continued 17 A. Yes. 18 to be in relationships with radicals in the prison? 18 Q. And did this report that there was intelligence of some 19 A. That’s right. There was too little evidence that 19 terrorist prisoners , including Usman Khan, engaging in 20 suggested his attitude or beliefs had changed at that 20 something called taqiyya? 21 stage. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. So he remained category A high risk in June 2016, 22 Q. What was that said to be? 23 following that review? 23 A. Which was a permissible form of telling lies to advance 24 A. Yes. 24 the cause of Islam. 25 Q. Then returning to the Mercury Intelligence record, the 25 Q. And specifically was the intelligence that some

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1 prisoners , including Khan, were lying within 1 Q. So that’s referring back to and apparently crediting 2 intervention programmes, in his case, just ticking boxes 2 that intelligence that we looked at a moment ago? 3 to show that he was progressing? 3 A. Exactly. 4 A. That’s right, he was just playing the system. 4 Q. Then in February 2017, was Khan involved in a couple of 5 Q. And then page {DC6503/1122}, please. Do we see here 5 violent incidents within Whitemoor? 6 an entry for 24 December 2016 about the leadership of 6 A. That’s right, yes, two inmates attacked a third man in 7 terrorist inmates at Whitemoor? 7 a cell with a plastic knife and Khan moved to an area 8 A. That’s right, yes. Yet again, Khan being a leadership 8 which suggested he knew that the assault was going to 9 figure . 9 take place. 10 Q. Do we see a specific reference to some of the long 10 Q. So there was an assault by two other inmates on a third 11 serving prisoners befriending and grooming other inmates 11 man, and Khan’s movements suggested that he knew the 12 such as drug dealers who can be used once they have been 12 assault was going to take place? 13 released? 13 A. That’s correct, yes. 14 A. That’s right, yes. 14 Q. Was Khan then directly involved in an assault on the man 15 Q. We are now moving on to the start of 2017, which is 15 who had been assaulted by the two others? 16 two years before release , and we’ve prepared a note for 16 A. Yes. 17 the jury with some key intelligence entries over this 17 Q. If we put on screen {DC6503/2165} can we see here 18 period. I ’ ll ask for that to be handed out a little 18 an entry for 28 February 2017, referring to the assault 19 later , but this is a period which is the last two years 19 on Mr Rogers on 28 February? 20 of his time in prison, and, therefore , more of our 20 A. Yes. 21 focus. 21 Q. And then {DC6503/2167}, please, for the details of that. 22 Paragraph 3.38 of your report, was Khan’s category A 22 Can we see from the middle of the page, based on the 23 security classification reviewed at the start of this 23 CCTV viewing, that the victim had gone into his cell 24 period and maintained? 24 with another prisoner before being followed in by two 25 A. That’s right, yes. Yes. It was considered acceptable 25 more?

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1 by the category A team, he engaged well with the MCBS 1 A. Yes. 2 meeting and a sentence planning meeting. However, there 2 Q. That Khan had pushed somebody away from the door? 3 was information about him becoming argumentative at 3 A. Yes. 4 times and intelligence suggesting continued extremist 4 Q. And then another prisoner went in swinging what appeared 5 attitudes and radicalisation of others as potential for 5 to be a weighted sock? 6 disruption . 6 A. That’s right. 7 Q. If we put on screen {DC5350/1}, do we see there that his 7 Q. And page {DC6503/2180}, please. If we look towards the 8 category was maintained on 15 March 2017? 8 bottom of the report entry, after going through the 9 A. Yes. Still the category A, high risk . 9 facts of the assault again, does the entry state: 10 Q. Then over the page, please. {DC5350/2}, do we see there 10 ”Information received suggested that the victim had 11 a report justifying that decision? 11 been told to get out of HMP Whitemoor by persons who 12 A. Yes. 12 follow the Islamic faith and that he had declined to 13 Q. And at the bottom of that page, please, under ”Present 13 convert, that he was a Christian.” 14 circumstances”, do we see the report stating that Khan’s 14 And that various of those involved, including those 15 behaviour was acceptable and hadn’t any recent 15 directly engaged in the assault, had been placed on 16 adjudications. Is that a formal process where breach of 16 report? 17 prison rules is established? 17 A. That’s correct, yes. It appears that they tried to 18 A. Within the Prison Service, that’s right , yes. So no 18 convert him and he declined. 19 formal adjudications, no formal overt disruptive 19 Q. So we can take that off screen now. 20 behaviour, however, I think he goes on to suggest that 20 There two incidents of violence against the same 21 there’s still intelligence suggesting continued 21 person, and some intelligence suggesting that this was 22 extremist attitudes . 22 because of a refusal to convert? 23 Q. And also that he has deliberately told lies or ticked 23 A. Yes. 24 boxes to achieve progression? 24 Q. Then {DC6503/2162}, we can see here, I think, 25 A. Yes. 25 a reference in the intelligence record for 2 March 2017,

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1 referring to Khan talking about his Muslim faith with 1 (11.38 am) 2 an inmates, Adebolajo. How is Adebolajo known to the 2 (In the presence of the jury) 3 rest of the world? 3 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Welcome back, everyone. Members of the 4 A. Adebolajo is a very well known terrorist who murdered 4 jury , we have removed the perspex which was between the 5 Fusilier Lee Rigby in a terrorist attack. 5 front and the back rows which I think was causing some 6 Q. That was a beheading attack, wasn’t it? 6 vision difficulties with seeing the screen, particularly 7 A. That’s right. 7 when the sun was shining. So if you have found that 8 Q. Then {DC6503/2125}, please, this is dealt with at 8 your table has been moved that is why we have done it. 9 page 3.44 of your report, so page 2125, we see that 9 If in fact we need to put them back at any stage, if any 10 there was a search of Khan’s cell in April 2017 which 10 of you want them back, they are just to the side, but 11 turned up some significant material? 11 I hope that helps. I am acutely aware that actually if 12 A. Sorry, can you take me back to the reference in my 12 you are looking at the screen it doesn’t help if you’ve 13 report? 13 got to peer round the sunlight and also through perspex 14 Q. Yes, it ’s paragraph 3.44. 14 which may be making things difficult but I hope that 15 A. That’s right, yes, so he was in possession of newspaper 15 makes it better for you. Thank you. 16 cuttings relating to Isis , terrorism and jihadists and, 16 MR HOUGH: DCI Brown, we had been going through the history 17 Khan was challenged and initially said he knew nothing 17 of Usman Khan’s time in prison and looking in particular 18 about them, then he said it’s only newspapers and 18 at records from the Mercury Intelligence record with 19 current affairs . He also had large amounts of 19 reports on his conduct, and we had reached a point 20 handwritten religious materials. 20 in July 2017, continuing that exercise , may we please 21 Q. Then moving on to a little later , June 2017, 21 have on screen {DC6503/2002}. This is an entry for 22 {DC6503/2050} in the Mercury report, can we see that 22 20 July 2017, and do we see in the middle of the page 23 Khan, amongst others, were involved in a hostile and 23 Usman Khan being described as one of the main prisoners 24 angry stand−off with staff? 24 for promoting extremist views? 25 A. Yes. 25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. And two pages along, to {DC6503/2052}, please, around 1 Q. Referring to how he goes into the prison yard and 2 the middle of the page do we see Khan referred to as 2 preaches to other inmates? 3 ”an influential TACT prisoner involved in extremist 3 A. Yes. 4 bullying”? 4 Q. Do we see that there is also reference later in the 5 A. Yes. 5 report to incidents of organised retribution beatings? 6 Q. Then {DC6503/2046} please, this, I think, is an entry 6 A. That’s right, yes. 7 for 30 July 2017. 7 Q. Then moving on a few days, {DC6503/2043}, can we see 8 A. Yes, that’s right . 8 here under ”Supporting intelligence” for an entry of 9 Q. Referring to the emirs, that’s senior Muslim figures in 9 23 July 2017, a reference to Mr Khan having challenged 10 the prison? 10 staff over hourly observations? This is about just over 11 A. Yes. 11 half of the way down. 12 Q. Saying that they wanted somebody killed, and one of the 12 A. Yes, that’s right , yes. 13 emirs is identified as Usman on A wing, I think that’s 13 Q. About searching and referring to him behaving in 14 Khan. 14 an intimidating manner? 15 A. That’s almost certainly Khan, yes. 15 A. That’s right, yes, and again a reference to him being 16 MR HOUGH: We can take that off screen now. 16 an emir, the ”A wing blue”, I don’t know what ”sour” 17 Sir , it ’s 11.15. Would that be a convenient moment 17 means, but emir. 18 for our break? 18 Q. I think that should be spur. 19 JUDGE LUCRAFT: We will pause there. Thank you very much. 19 A. Spur, yes. 20 Ladies and gentlemen, we will take our mid−morning 20 Q. So that is the blue spur of A wing, and he is reported 21 break there. 21 as the senior figure? 22 (In the absence of the jury) 22 A. Yes, a common theme. 23 I ’ ll rise . 23 Q. Then {DC6503/2021}, please, and do we see here an entry 24 (11.16 am) 24 for 15 August 2017, a large group of prisoners refusing 25 (A short break) 25 to lock up, apparently under the instruction of Mr Khan,

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1 described as the main instigator. 1 see here an entry for 20 November 2017, referring to 2 A. Yes, again. 2 information that Khan and other Muslim prisoners on 3 Q. Then page 2000, please, {DC6503/2000}, do we see here 3 C wing had been trying to dictate the conduct of 4 an entry for 24 August 2017, saying that Khan is 4 non−Muslims, how they can shower, eat and behave? 5 responsible for the attempted radicalisation of other 5 A. Yes, that’s right . 6 prisoners , talking with them and leaving paperwork with 6 Q. Did the category A process of review on this −− for this 7 them. 7 year, complete in December 2017? 8 A. That’s right, yes. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And around this time, September 2017, was another report 9 Q. We can put on screen {DC5352/4}. So this is a letter to 10 prepared about Khan’s category A status and whether he 10 Usman Khan, 21 December 2017, telling him that he is to 11 should retain that status? 11 remain category A high risk. 12 A. Yes. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. We can put that on the screen, {DC6531/3}. That must be 13 Q. And then at the bottom of the page, the Category A Team 14 a −− I’m sorry, I gave the wrong reference, {DC5351/1}, 14 concludes in the penultimate paragraph here that Khan 15 let ’s start with page 1, and identify the document, it 15 has achieved no substantial progress addressing risk −− 16 is a category A report and {DC5351/3}, please, 16 A. That’s correct. 17 paragraph 4.1, we can see that Mr Khan has had guilty 17 Q. −− in the reporting period, that there has been 18 adjudications following the incidents in February 2017? 18 engagement in education but regular examples of 19 A. Jumping on the netting, yes. 19 misconduct? 20 Q. And then it goes on to describe, just above 4.2, 20 A. Yes. 21 Usman Khan as being generally polite and respectful to 21 Q. And that there haven’t been any further interventions, 22 staff but challenging at times. 22 so further programmes to address his offending, mindset 23 A. Yes. 23 and behaviour? 24 Q. Then under ”positive behaviours”, does it refer , just 24 A. That’s right, yes, so considered −− suggested little or 25 going down the page, please, to hard work in education 25 no personal development, despite other positive

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1 to gain GCSEs in maths and English and so on? 1 information. 2 A. Yes. 2 Q. Now, in line with the suggestion that he hadn’t carried 3 Q. So some signs of positive application to education? 3 out such programmes, did he then go on to undergo the 4 A. Yes, he appears to thrive whilst in education and will 4 Thinking Skills programme? 5 study hard in his own time. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Take that off screen now. I have now reached 6 Q. And if we go to {DC5341/1} we can see there a programme 7 paragraph 3.47 of your report, which is page 16. Is it 7 report, referring to completion of the programme on 8 right that in November 2017, Khan began his first course 8 13 December 2017. 9 with Learning Together? 9 A. Yes. 10 A. Yes, that’s right . I believe at first he wasn’t that 10 Q. And if we go to {DC5341/9}, this is comments on the 11 interested , however, he decided he would give it a go 11 self −control module of the Thinking Skills programme. 12 and become involved. 12 We can see that overall the report writer says that Khan 13 Q. The jury has seen his application form and the period −− 13 explored the risky emotions, situations , and thoughts 14 and has seen the documents which show that Writing 14 around his index offence. He considered some high risk 15 Together course lasting to early 2018? 15 situations in custody, and identified certain skills as 16 A. That’s right. 16 useful to move him away from offending. 17 Q. Meanwhile, around the same time, {DC6503/1963}, on 17 Do we see that in his manuscript comments he said: 18 12 November 2017 was an entry made that Khan, the 18 ”I agree with the comments; where highlighted 19 previous day, had been talking through the Remembrance 19 I would like to clarify that though I felt angry, I also 20 Day silence? 20 made clear that I would never harm anyone who did not 21 A. That’s right, yes. Very similar to the way he had done 21 physically harm me, this is a principle I live by and 22 back in, I think it was 2012. 22 I would not harm staff nor anyone else except in extreme 23 Q. Talking on this occasion, rather than shouting? 23 cases of self −defence and even then I would not to 24 A. Yes. 24 excess, this can be seen in my prison history, though I 25 Q. And then page 1959, please, {DC6503/1959}, I think we 25 have been in stressful situations I have never harmed a

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1 staff member.” 1 A. Yes. 2 A. That’s right, yes. Although that’s fairly contradictory 2 Q. Then page 49, please {DC5322/49}, I think Khan was given 3 with some of the comments that we’ve already seen today. 3 the opportunity to make comments on this report in 4 Q. And also in response to the requirement for an Extremism 4 an interview, and those comments were typed up and added 5 Risk Guidance assessment, which is referred to in that 5 to the report as an appendix? 6 category A report, was an ERG process carried out in 6 A. That is correct , yes. I think he described them as 7 early 2018? 7 unsubstantiated speculation by the security department. 8 A. Yes, that’s right , by Ieva Cechaviciute, prison 8 Q. So is it right , summarising material we’ll go into in 9 psychologist. 9 more detail later , that Khan took issue with a whole 10 Q. So this I think produced an important report 10 series of the security intelligence reports as 11 of April 2018 by the prison psychologist, 11 unreliable , the sort of reports we’ve been looking at? 12 Ms Cechaviciute. That’s at {DC5322/1}. We shall all 12 A. Yes. 13 have to get used to pronouncing her name by the time she 13 Q. We can take that off screen. 14 gives evidence. 14 I ’m now at your paragraph 3.66. In early 2018, was 15 A. Yes. 15 Khan referred for a process called Multi−Agency Public 16 Q. I’m going to deal with the report just briefly now, 16 Protection Arrangements? 17 because we will hear about it in much more detail with 17 A. That’s right, yes. 18 that and other witnesses, but {DC5322/32} can we see 18 Q. MAPPA? 19 that the report concluded, towards the bottom of the 19 A. In advance of his release from custody. 20 page, at 8.1.2., if we can focus on the bottom of the 20 Q. In a sentence or two, we’ve heard a little about it, 21 page, assessing that Khan’s current engagement with 21 what is MAPPA? 22 extremism was medium and could increase on release 22 A. It ’s bringing all the different parties or agencies 23 because of factors such as the need for status, 23 involved in his management together to discuss 24 comradeship, having friends that support extremism, the 24 a strategy to employ following his release . 25 need for identity , meaning and belonging, the need to 25 Q. And those agencies are then required under statutory

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1 dominate others? 1 procedures to cooperate within certain structures and 2 A. That’s right, yes, things we’ve seen before. 2 have regular meetings to discuss his management? 3 Q. Then paragraph 8.1.3, his risk of engaging in extremism 3 A. That’s right, yes. I believe there were 12 meetings in 4 could increase if faced with prejudice, or, over the 4 total . 5 page {DC5322/33} negative influences or struggling to 5 Q. When was Khan first referred to MAPPA? This is your 6 establish his identity and status within a group. 6 paragraph 3.66. 7 Then does it go on to say: 7 A. Yes, so referral was made in February of 2018 by 8 ”Other potential circumstances that could increase 8 Staffordshire Probation and the first meeting was 9 risk of engagement with extremism could be being 9 in June of 2018. 10 influenced by untrustworthy authority ... [or] 10 Q. In preparation for the first MAPPA meeting, was 11 struggling financially (for example, not having ajob 11 a security intelligence report prepared for the MAPPA 12 and being offered an opportunity to make money through 12 agencies? 13 risky behaviour), and struggling to adjust and establish 13 A. Yes. 14 himself in the community (for example, lack of 14 Q. May we have that on screen, please. It’s {DC6423/1}. 15 employment, lack of structure in daily life and 15 Now, do we see here that this report includes some of 16 difficult relationships with family members).” 16 the intelligence we’ve seen −− 17 A. That’s right. 17 A. That’s right. 18 Q. Just to be clear , this process, which produces 18 Q. −− about Khan being an influential senior terrorist 19 conclusions of these kind, is designed to inform those 19 offender, radicalising others and seeking to dictate the 20 who manage Khan going forward? 20 behaviour of non−Muslims? 21 A. Exactly, yes. 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. Then paragraph 8.1.4, does the assessor conclude that 22 Q. Then {DC6423/2}, please. Under ”Potential for 23 Khan has a current −− that Khan’s current intent to 23 Radicalisation and extremism”, does the report say this: 24 commit an offence is assessed as medium, but that could 24 ”Since Mr Khan was moved to C wing red spur, he 25 also increase upon release? 25 seems to have crept below the CTU radar.”

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1 Is that the counter−terrorism unit at the prison, is 1 A. That’s right, yes. 2 that right? 2 Q. And of course, the MAPPA agencies had that security 3 A. Yes. 3 report suggesting that the improvement in overt 4 Q. ”Maybe this is because he knows that with release 4 behaviour might be deceptive? 5 imminent, he will be watched carefully, or whether it is 5 A. That’s correct. 6 because of something else, we don’t know. The intel 6 Q. Were further MAPPA meetings held in October and December 7 reporting on Mr Khan for that last 6 months appears to 7 of 2018? 8 fall under other threat priorities rather than extremism 8 A. Yes. 9 and radicalisation . However, this does not mean that 9 Q. Now, going back to some of the intelligence records over 10 his ideologies have changed, just that he may be 10 this period, {DC6503/1893}, please. Now, I think we can 11 behaving in a deceptively compliant manner in order to 11 see here an entry in the Mercury Intelligence record 12 facilitate his release .” 12 for June 2018, which records Khan’s association with 13 A. Yes. 13 various other disruptive prisoners , and refers to Khan 14 Q. We can take that off screen now. 14 as having ”Links to religious bullying and/or the gang 15 Now, you have told us that regular meetings 15 culture”. 16 followed. Were those meetings about once a month? 16 A. That’s right, yes. Again, he appears to have been 17 A. That’s right, yes. 17 an influential figure amongst Muslim prisoners on Bwing 18 Q. I think, sorry , to correct myself, once every two months 18 before moving to C wing. 19 while in prison, and once every month on release? 19 Q. So that’s June 2018, I think? 20 A. That’s right, yes. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Did those involve staff from the National Probation 21 Q. Then moving to page {DC6503/1876} this is an entry for 22 Service, West Midlands Police Counter−Terrorism Unit, 22 24 July 2018, if we look at the whole page. Sorry, 23 Staffordshire Police, the prison for a period, those 23 I must have the... { DC6503/1876}, I’m sorry, an entry 24 operating approved premises, and so on? 24 for 24 July 2018: 25 A. That’s correct. 25 ”Information received suggests that a conversation

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1 Q. And we’ll hear about the roles that each of those played 1 was overheard between Mr Usman Khan and [another 2 in the meeting, whether they had a specific 2 prisoner ] that [a third prisoner ] is a snitch ... he 3 responsibility for Khan at different times. 3 works for the system and he needs to be stopped, it’s 4 Did the first meeting take place in June 2018? 4 believed they wish to seriously harm [this other 5 A. Yes. 5 prisoner ]. ” 6 Q. And we don’t need to go to the minutes for that now, but 6 A. Yes. 7 did that involve discussion of where he would live and 7 Q. ”It’s also stated that Mr Khan and [the person he was 8 plans for his future? 8 speaking to] are the Muslim leaders and said they have 9 A. Yes. 9 all the tools/connections they need to contact people.” 10 Q. Where was it intended that he would live? 10 A. That’s right. 11 A. It was an approved premises in the Staffordshire area. 11 Q. Then turning to paragraph 3.70 of your report, at this 12 Q. So on release he would live in what might colloquially 12 point in time, so August 2018, with four months to go 13 be called a probation hostel? 13 before release , was Khan subject to a further category A 14 A. That’s correct, yes. 14 review procedure? 15 Q. Looking at your paragraphs 3.67 to 3.68, what was the 15 A. That’s right, yes. 16 view taken of Mr Khan’s behaviour around that time by 16 Q. {DC5353/1} please, on screen. Do we see that the 17 the MAPPA agencies? 17 decision was made in August 2018 that Khan should remain 18 A. So the conduct had been mixed, but over the last −− the 18 category A high escape risk; that the panel making the 19 prior eight months, there had been a substantial 19 decision were encouraged that there had been 20 improvement, albeit there was still intelligence around 20 a willingness to engage in education and offending 21 his extreme views. 21 behaviour work, but Khan was still to demonstrate 22 Q. So is this right : improved behaviour in the sense that 22 a reduction in risk? 23 he wasn’t directly becoming involved in assaults or 23 A. That’s correct. 24 disruptive behaviour, but still some very concerning 24 Q. Moving on to a little later in August 2018, may we look 25 intelligence ? 25 at the Mercury Intelligence record for 24 August,

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1 {DC6503/1855}. Now, is this an entry suggesting that 1 future? 2 Khan and others, including Brusthom Ziamani, were 2 A. Yes, that’s right . He says: 3 regularly huddled together, that preaching was going on 3 ”I believe I ’m ready as ever to build my life and 4 and that some prisoners were not comfortable? 4 put this behind me. I am more settled and want to move 5 A. That’s correct. 5 on.” 6 Q. I think this was communicated to the MAPPA agencies in 6 Q. And he ended off with a poem? 7 a subsequent intelligence report; is that right? 7 A. A poem, yes. 8 A. That’s correct. 8 Q. And then page {DC6503/2242}, please, was there on 9 Q. And just to help us, how did Brusthom Ziamani come to 9 29 October 2018, a significant entry in the Mercury 10 light after the Fishmongers’ Hall terrorist attack? 10 Intelligence record? 11 A. So he was already a convicted terrorist for a plot 11 A. There was, yes. 12 similar to the Lee Rigby−style attack, a failed plot, 12 Q. I’m going to quote this: 13 where he was convicted. However, whilst in custody, him 13 ”An inmate of C wing called Khan tries to radicalise 14 and another individual attacked a prisoner officer 14 other Muslim prisoners. Khan attends Friday prayers at 15 whilst wearing fake suicide belts and they’d made knives 15 the prison mosque which gives him the opportunity to 16 with razor blades and toothbrushes and they effectively 16 target other Muslims. 17 attempted to kill the prison officer and were convicted 17 ”Khan has said that he will return to his old ways, 18 of attempted murder. 18 believed to be related to terrorism when he is released 19 Q. It was a very serious incident in early 2020, is that 19 next year”. 20 right? 20 Then over the page {DC6503/2243}. 21 A. That’s correct, yes. 21 ”Khan tells those who he tries to radicalise that 22 Q. Then in September 2018, was a further category A report 22 Muslims have to stick together.” 23 prepared on Usman Khan by his offender supervisor in the 23 And then Khan is given a physical description. 24 prison, Ms Jo Boulton? 24 A. Yes. 25 A. That’s right, yes. 25 Q. Over the same period, so late 2018, was Khan also

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1 Q. If we can go to that, please, {DC5567/1}, and identify 1 engaging positively with Learning Together? 2 the report. Then on {DC5567/8}, we can see that 2 A. That’s correct, yes. 3 Ms Boulton considered that during the review period of 3 Q. I think you say, you refer at paragraph 3.73 of your 4 recent months, Mr Khan’s behaviour had vastly improved, 4 report to a fundraising run he took part in? 5 that he was engaging well with herself and the outside 5 A. That’s right, yes, he took part in a fundraising run 6 probation officer −− is that Mr Skelton? 6 where he showed really good dedication. 7 A. Yes. 7 Q. And paragraph 3.77, did he act, as we’ve heard, as 8 Q. And that plans are being made for his release. It is 8 a mentor on a Learning Together probability course? 9 positive that he has completed the Healthy Identity 9 A. Yes. 10 Intervention and working well with the imams at the 10 Q. That was taking a position of some responsibility and 11 chaplaincy. Good that he had completed the 11 discharging it , apparently, well? 12 Thinking Skills programme and engaged in the further 12 A. Yes, I think that is something he had expressed 13 Extremism Risk Guidance process. 13 an interest in doing later on, becoming a mentor. 14 A. That’s correct, yes. I think there’s a recommendation 14 Q. At paragraph 3.75 of your report, there had been the 15 that he could be managed as a category B prisoner, 15 recommendation by Ms Boulton, the offender supervisor, 16 albeit he was never made a category B prisoner. 16 that Khan be reduced from category A to category B. 17 Q. So around this time Ms Boulton, who was dealing with 17 A. Yes. 18 Khan quite regularly, detected a significant improvement 18 Q. Was that considered by a local advisory panel which 19 in behaviour? 19 would make recommendations on such matters? 20 A. That’s right, true, yes. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. If we go back to the Mercury Intelligence record, 21 Q. What was the result of that consideration? 22 {DC6503/1840}, do we see here an entry for 22 A. So the panel went on to conclude it was satisfied that 23 15 October 2018, so a couple of months before release, 23 no concerning behaviours had been seen over 12 months 24 noting that Khan had written to Mr Skelton, the outside 24 and that a downgrade that facilitated a period of time 25 probation officer , expressing a positive approach tothe 25 in category B would benefit his transition to the

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1 community. So essentially I think what they’re saying 1 before. 2 is , in time he could be downgraded. 2 Q. And that intelligence of 29 October 2018 is discussed in 3 Q. If we could put on screen {DC5565/1}, and can we see 3 the MAPPA meeting? 4 here that the Category A Team −− that’s looking at 4 A. Yes. 5 the previous review −− that the Category A Team noted 5 Q. Go down the page, please. Sorry, so that we can just 6 the previous review that we looked at where there was no 6 see a little higher, please? It ’s described as ”low 7 significant progress. Then at the 9.2, minutes ofthe 7 graded intelligence .” 8 Local Advisory Panel discussion, the panel was advised 8 A. Sorry, I ’m trying to pick the text up. 9 that the risk of serious harm as assessed on the 9 Q. Pardon, sorry? 10 offender assessment system tool is very high tothe 10 A. I can’t see that. 11 public and medium to staff and the community. 11 Q. Right at the top: 12 A. Yes. 12 ”Please note this is low graded intelligence .” 13 Q. ”In the custodial setting , his risk is medium to staff 13 A. Sorry, apologies, in bold capital letters . 14 and other prisoners and low in all other areas.” 14 Q. Before redaction is made on national security grounds. 15 And then this: 15 A. Yes. 16 ”Mr Khan engages well in the sentence planning 16 Q. And then there is a discussion of Khan’s release through 17 process and with his Offender Supervisor. The LAP noted 17 HMP Woodhill. 18 that he used to be quite ’anti−authority’ however seems 18 A. Yes. 19 to have shifted and now engages in a more healthy and 19 Q. We can take that off screen now. We’ll look at all 20 purposeful activities . They ... noted he was removed 20 these MAPPA meeting minutes in detail with other 21 from MCBS...” 21 witnesses. 22 That’s is the Managing Challenging Behaviour 22 A. Sure. 23 Strategy −− 23 Q. But it’s right to say that that intelligence suggesting 24 A. Yes. 24 that Khan had said he would return to his old ways was 25 Q. −− following the assessment, and then he had 25 discussed in the MAPPA meeting −−

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1 resettlement services in place planned for his release 1 A. Yes. 2 date? 2 Q. −− communicated to the MAPPA participants, but as low 3 A. That’s correct. 3 graded intelligence ? 4 Q. So summarising a little, is the advisory panel noting 4 A. That’s right. That’s right, yes. 5 that there is an assessment of risk which remains 5 Q. I’m now on page 3.83 of your report, and page 20. 6 serious and high, but apparently improved behaviour 6 Whilst still in prison at the start of 2018, did Khan 7 engaging with the offender supervisor? 7 make contact with a mentor who had been provided from 8 A. That’s correct, yes. 8 a company called TUI? 9 Q. Then page 2, please {DC5565/2}, I think we can see under 9 A. The Unity Initiative , yes. 10 ”Protective factors” the connection with 10 Q. Is that a company which provides under contract with the 11 Learning Together and the University of Cambridge is 11 government mentors to work with offenders and help them 12 treated as a protective factor , as a positive factor in 12 away from offending behaviour? 13 his life tending away from offending? 13 A. That’s correct, yes. 14 A. Yes. 14 Q. In his meeting with the mentor on 4 December 2018, how 15 Q. Then may we move to the final MAPPA meeting of Khan’s 15 did Khan present? 16 time in prison. Did that take place on 5 December 2018? 16 A. So he spoke about how he wanted to −− what he wanted to 17 A. Yes. 17 achieve and what he was looking to pursue. He was 18 Q. If we look at the minutes, {DC6409/1}, and these are the 18 looking to pursue an academic career in combating 19 MAPPA meeting minutes of December 2018. If we go to 19 extremism, and he spoke about having a transformation 20 {DC6409/6} and start halfway down the page, we can see 20 since he had started writing. He said he did not 21 that there is a quotation of the intelligence that we 21 believe the rhetoric that he used to believe when he was 22 looked at earlier , Khan being an inmate who tried to 22 younger, and he was now challenging them in open forums 23 radicalise other prisoners , and had said he would return 23 and he wanted to break away from the ideology. Again, 24 to his old ways, believed related to terrorism? 24 he described himself as an angry young man back in those 25 A. That’s right, that’s the same intelligence we heard 25 days when he came into the system, but over the last

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1 year and a half he had learned to ”mellow”, is his 1 persons have had the opportunity to have some input into 2 quote. 2 it . Its reference is {DC7534}. It contains key prison 3 Q. As you have told us, Khan had to be released at the end 3 intelligence from Usman Khan’s Mercury Intelligence 4 of 2018 −− 4 record and his NOMIS record. 5 A. That’s right. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. −− no discretion about that. Was he released on time at 6 Q. Now, the Mercury record, at which we’ve been looking, is 7 the end of December 2018 from HMP Woodhill? 7 the record of a digital prison intelligence system used 8 A. Yes. 8 across the estate, introduced in 2013? 9 Q. That was, I think, 24 December? 9 A. Yes. 10 A. That’s right. Christmas Eve. 10 Q. And is it right that in prison, intelligence can be 11 Q. Now, looking at your paragraph 3.89 onwards, in brief 11 submitted by anyone with a link on the prison services 12 how much contact did Khan maintain with his family 12 intranet system? 13 whilst he was in prison? 13 A. Correct. 14 A. He kept quite good communications via telephone with 14 Q. That some such intelligence will be submitted by the 15 them, and the occasional visit . 15 counter−terrorism unit, but often by others, such as 16 Q. Is it right to say that the conversations which were 16 wing staff? 17 monitored, as we’ll hear, were generally about domestic 17 A. Yes. 18 matters? 18 Q. That Usman Khan’s record, as you’ve told us, runs to 19 A. That’s right, yes. 19 thousands of pages of entries? 20 Q. And certainly did not raise concerns that his family 20 A. Yes, over 2,000 pages. 21 were engaged in anything unlawful or inappropriate? 21 Q. That the NOMIS record, by contrast, is a record for all 22 A. No, that’s correct . 22 prisoners operating as a single national database of 23 Q. But those conversations did sometimes stray, as we’ve 23 offender information? 24 seen, into Khan’s desire to move to Pakistan? 24 A. That’s right, yes. 25 A. Yes. 25 Q. Khan’s running to, I think, a little under 200 pages?

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1 Q. Did Khan also maintain during his time in prison contact 1 A. Yes. 2 with his co−defendants to an extent? 2 Q. For the benefit of the jury , the lines of intelligence 3 A. During prison, yes. 3 included in this summary are described as ”key”, but 4 Q. And also during prison, did Khan maintain contact with 4 that’s simply an assessment we have made as lawyers. 5 a long−standing friend, Joseph, or Yusuf, Holland? 5 There will, of course, be more information than is 6 A. Yes. 6 received in this document, but it’s been presented as 7 Q. We have seen that he was one of those who had been 7 a gist to set out some of the most significant 8 handing out literature with Usman Khan in the period 8 intelligence of the last two years of Khan’s time in 9 before he was released −− 9 prison. 10 A. That’s correct. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. −− at the da’wah stalls? 11 Q. Now, the reason I’m putting this to you now, DCI Brown, 12 A. Yes, and again, via the telephone, predominantly, that 12 is that I ’m asking you to confirm that you have read 13 was monitored. 13 this document? 14 Q. Is it right that their conversations were generally 14 A. I have read it , yes. 15 about mutual friends and, in the main, weren’t a 15 Q. That you have compared it against your knowledge of the 16 security concern? 16 records that we have gone through, and you can confirm 17 A. That’s correct. 17 it is accurate? 18 Q. Now, before we move onto the period after release, 18 A. It is accurate, yes. 19 I ’m going to ask for a document to be handed to you, if 19 Q. I don’t ask the jury to read into that now, but to set 20 it hasn’t already been, and to the jury, which is 20 it aside and to use it as we go along referring to 21 a summary of key intelligence from 2017 and 2018. 21 prison matters in future. 22 A. Yes, I have that document and I have read it. 22 JUDGE LUCRAFT: And just, the jury, you have mentioned this 23 Q. It is just being handed to the jury now. (Handed). 23 a number of times, Mr Hough, but a number of the people 24 Sir , for the jury ’s benefit , this is a document 24 who feature in those meetings the jury are going to be 25 which the Inquest team have prepared and all interested 25 hearing from in the coming days, and so the context very

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1 much of what DCI Brown at the moment is doing is to put 1 day of release , and I think he signed this document as 2 these things into context in the light of what it is the 2 well . 3 police investigation after the incident has revealed, 3 Q. Was he also subject to notification requirements under 4 and we will add a bit more flesh to the bones of these 4 statute as a terrorist offender? 5 meetings through the evidence to be given by those 5 A. That’s right, yes. 6 others? 6 Q. If we go to {DC5258/2}. Now, summarising very briefly, 7 MR HOUGH: Yes. 7 were these a lower level of requirements about, for 8 May we then move on to the period after Khan’s 8 example, notifying changes of address, not as onerous as 9 release . You’ve told us he was to be released on 9 the licence conditions? 10 licence . Was he subject to a series of mandatory 10 A. That’s right, yes. 11 conditions? 11 Q. But in place for 30 years? 12 A. Yes, when he was first released, he had 22 conditions. 12 A. That’s right, yes. 13 Q. Can we put on screen {DC5194/1}. Can we see here 13 Q. We can take that off screen now. 14 a formal document setting out those licence conditions? 14 Based on those conditions, we know that Khan was 15 A. Yes. 15 required to live at the approved premises in Stafford. 16 Q. If we go to the bottom of that page, we can see the 16 Looking at your paragraph 4.3, can you tell us a little 17 conditions begin to be set out, including to be of good 17 about those premises? 18 behaviour and not commit any offence. 18 A. Yes. So that’s an approved premises, ie a hostel 19 Over the page {DC5194/2}, they include, for example, 19 operated by the National Probation Service, and it was 20 number (vi), not to undertake work other than work that 20 a premises that would primarily house high risk 21 has been approved? 21 offenders in a sort of semi−secure environment, to 22 A. Yes. 22 provide them some intensive supervision but in the 23 Q. Number (vii), not to travel outside the United Kingdom 23 community whilst they were on licence following release 24 without prior permission? 24 from prison. 25 A. Yes. 25 Q. I think that was managed by a lady called Kim West, from

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1 Q. Going down, number (x), to comply with the requirements 1 whom we’ll hear? 2 of the supervising probation officer ? 2 A. That’s right. 3 A. Yes. 3 Q. And is it right that while there, Khan had keyworkers 4 Q. Number (xii) not to access internet−enabled devices? 4 and a regular weekly one−hour session with a key worker 5 A. That’s correct, yes. 5 to discuss matters such as employment and education? 6 Q. And then, over the page, number (xx) there’s a curfew, 6 A. That’s right, yes. 7 there’s a requirement to confine himself within the 7 Q. Looking at your paragraph 4.4, we’ll hear in detail from 8 address approved between 7.00 pm and 7.00 am? 8 the staff of the hostel, but how was Khan’s compliance 9 A. Yes. 9 with the rules of those premises? 10 Q. And a requirement for signing on at approved premises? 10 A. He abided by the rules at all times. 11 A. That’s right. 11 Q. Turning, then, to the level of involvement of statutory 12 Q. (xxi ), a requirement to reside permanently at the 12 agencies with Usman Khan on a regular basis. Was 13 probation hostel, Staithford House approved premises? 13 Usman Khan managed first of all by a probation officer, 14 A. Yes. 14 primarily by Mr Skelton? 15 Q. And then (xxii), a requirement to wear a GPS monitoring 15 A. Yes. 16 tag. 16 Q. Was he also subject to management by police officers? 17 A. That’s right, yes. 17 A. Yes. So they were there to supervise the conditions 18 Q. Had those conditions been prepared and approved at the 18 that he was under. 19 MAPPA meetings during the time that Khan was in prison? 19 Q. Where did those police officers who were doing that 20 A. This was all part of the strategy that was discussed at 20 management and supervision, where did they come from? 21 the MAPPA, yes. 21 A. So they were actually officers that worked within the 22 Q. Were they explained to Khan in fact repeatedly, 22 Prevent unit for Staffordshire Police, albeit that 23 including on the day of his release? 23 wasn’t their primary role : they weren’t acting 24 A. That’s right, he met his probation officer and the 24 in Prevent capacity, they were acting to supervise those 25 police officers that were managing the conditions onthe 25 conditions, almost double−hatting, if you like .

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1 Q. So these police officers were a team, I think, ledby 1 eight years and things had changed and the processes had 2 Police Sergeant Forsyth? 2 changed. 3 A. Yes. 3 Q. You told us in August 2019 he stopped having a mentor. 4 Q. They were members of a Prevent Team whose normal work 4 He didn’t have a mentor after that? 5 involved promoting and pursuing the government’s Prevent 5 A. Yes. 6 or de−radicalisation strategy? 6 Q. Why was that? 7 A. Yes, as part of the Contest strategy, yes. 7 A. I think the company, TUI, the contract ceased, and 8 Q. But they had been tasked also to perform this role in 8 I think the mentor moved away from that company. So it 9 the area of managing and supervising the compliance of 9 wasn’t to do with Mr Khan, it was to do with the 10 a small number of terrorist offenders with their licence 10 organisation of that company. 11 conditions? 11 Q. Did the effect of losing a mentor mean that atthat 12 A. That’s correct, yes. 12 point he couldn’t use the internet at the library ? 13 Q. Was Khan seen regularly by both Mr Skelton and the 13 A. That was the biggest impact upon him, yes. 14 Prevent Team? 14 Q. With the result that, for example, he couldn’t use the 15 A. He was, yes. 15 internet for job searching? 16 Q. I think in Mr Skelton’s case, a few times in the first 16 A. Absolutely, yes. 17 week of release, and then initially about every week 17 Q. Now moving onto the period January to March 2019, which 18 thereafter? 18 you deal with from paragraph 4.15 of your report, did 19 A. That’s right, yes. 19 Khan, in those early weeks following release , engage in 20 Q. Was Khan seen also regularly by the officers from the 20 various activities to set up his life , obtaining a bank 21 Prevent Team? 21 account, proof of identity and so on? 22 A. Yes, again, I think they were weekly initially and then 22 A. Yes, that’s right , yes. 23 from late February, every two weeks. I think as time 23 Q. He was required to live in the probation hostel from the 24 went on, there were slightly longer gaps. 24 time of his release , but did he express interest from 25 Q. Now, you’ve told us about mentors, now looking at 25 an early stage in moving into his own premises?

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1 paragraphs 4.13 and onwards in your report, but did Khan 1 A. Yes, again he wanted to be on his own in a flat in 2 see a mentor regularly from his time of release? 2 Stafford. 3 A. He did, yes. Those mentors were there to provide him 3 Q. I think for that purpose he registered with a local 4 practical support to re−engage back into the community. 4 authority housing agency in late January? 5 Q. Did he in fact have two mentors, two practical mentors 5 A. That’s right. 6 in succession, one we’re calling M1? 6 Q. What was Mr Skelton’s view of the period for which he 7 A. Yes. 7 would be required to stay in the approved premises? 8 Q. From December 2018 to March 2019? 8 A. I think he advised him it was likely to be at least six 9 A. Yes. 9 months before he could move from the hostel into 10 Q. Then was there a change to a second mentor, M2, 10 a private home. 11 from March to August 2019? 11 Q. Did Mr Khan receive a mobile phone? 12 A. That’s correct, yes. After August he didn’t have 12 A. He did. He was provided one by the police, yes. 13 a mentor. 13 Q. Did that mobile phone have internet capability? 14 Q. Just so there’s no mystery, these witnesses have been 14 A. So it shouldn’t have had internet capability , however, 15 granted anonymity, which is why they’re called M1 and 15 it was a very simple, basic phone that police believed 16 M2? 16 didn’t contain an internet capability , however Khan 17 A. Yes. 17 identified that it did and was forthcoming in passing 18 Q. What, in practical terms, did the mentor do with 18 that phone back, so he was then provided with another 19 Usman Khan on each visit? 19 phone. 20 A. So one role was they would accompany him to the library 20 Q. Was there a MAPPA meeting in January 2019, which 21 where he was allowed to access the internet to search 21 discussed Usman Khan? 22 for jobs and look into the future for housing. They 22 A. Yes. 23 helped facilitate him accessing a bank account. Just 23 Q. If we can put on screen {DC6410/1} we can see the 24 practical activities that he could be supervised in 24 minutes for that meeting, 23 January 2019. Then if we 25 undertaking, bearing in mind he had been in prison for 25 go to page 4, at the bottom of the page {DC6410/4}, do

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1 we see that Mr Skelton updated the MAPPA panel that 1 Usman Khan should not attend the March 2019 Cambridge 2 Usman Khan was currently at Staithford House approved 2 event, is it right , as we’ve heard, that arrangements 3 premises? 3 were made for him to be visited by Dr Armstrong and 4 A. Yes. 4 Mr Larmour for the video and the interview? 5 Q. And had settled well with no concerns? 5 A. A promotional video, that’s right , yes. 6 A. That’s correct. 6 Q. Meanwhile, in these early months, did Khan begin 7 Q. Then there’s reference to a bank account, driving 7 searching for employment? 8 licence , and so on? 8 A. That’s right, yes. 9 A. Yes. 9 Q. What were the principal steps he took in that regard? 10 Q. And then page 6, please {DC6410/6}, the top of the page, 10 A. So he was referred to an organisation called 11 we see this : 11 Ixion Holdings, part of the Shaw Trust, which is 12 ”Dr Ruth Armstrong from Cambridge University is 12 a charity which delivers courses and qualifications to 13 pushing for Usman to attend an event in March and has 13 support jobseekers from disadvantaged groups to move 14 stated that they are willing to arrange accommodation 14 forward and, obviously, eventually seek employment. 15 and for someone to go with him. Ken [that’s Mr Skelton] 15 Q. So he was being helped by Ixion Holdings with 16 was of the view that this is too soon and that the 16 a caseworker from that organisation −− 17 events they are suggesting in September and October 17 A. That’s right, yes. 18 would be more appropriate.” 18 Q. −− contacting him from time to time. Did he also have 19 And Ms West of the approved premises then talks 19 a work coach at the Jobcentre? 20 about managing Usman’s expectations? 20 A. He did, yes. 21 A. That’s right, yes. 21 Q. Meanwhile, when in March 2019, Khan moved to the elite 22 Q. We can take that off screen now. 22 fitness centre, did officers from the Prevent Teamtake 23 So the invitation to the Cambridge event we’ve heard 23 any steps about communicating with the owner of that 24 about in March 2019, was delivered in January and 24 gym? 25 considered by MAPPA in January but thought to be too 25 A. Yes, that’s right . They attended the gym to disclose to

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1 soon a step for Khan to take? 1 the manager the fact that he had the convictions that he 2 A. Yes, that’s right . 2 did, however, they discovered that Khan had already done 3 Q. Now at your paragraph 4.21, did Khan join a gym? 3 that himself. 4 A. He did, yes, a local gym, I think it was called 4 Q. So they discovered that Khan had already disclosed his 5 Elite 2000. 5 terrorism offences voluntarily to the owner of the gym? 6 Q. Is it right that he initially joined another gym 6 A. That’s right. 7 in January 2019, then moved to the Elite gym in March 7 Q. Did Khan initially have some attendance at a local 8 when the first gym closed down? 8 mosque? 9 A. Sorry, that’s correct , yes. He initially joined the 9 A. That’s right, yes. He attended Friday prayers for the 10 Lionz gym in February and then moved onto the Elite gym. 10 first time on 8 March 2019 and, again, I think 11 Q. Did he also, by way of leisure activities , acquire 11 a disclosure had been made by the Prevent officers to 12 an Xbox computer games console? 12 the mosque. 13 A. That’s right, yes. It was one that was unable to access 13 Q. So put on screen {DC7368/1}, just to give an idea of the 14 the internet and I think it was a secondhand purchase 14 scale of the mosque, is this an image of the mosque Khan 15 from Cash Converters. 15 was attending? 16 Q. So significant work done to ensure that he couldn’t 16 A. That’s right. 17 access the internet using that device? 17 Q. So not a vast...? 18 A. That’s right. 18 A. Very small, yes. 19 Q. By way of statutory benefits, what benefits did Khan 19 Q. We can take that off screen now. 20 receive? 20 I ’m now moving to the period between April 21 A. So he received Universal Credit monthly, which was 21 and August 2019, so after the first few months 22 £291.33 per calendar month, although that did vary on 22 post−release. 23 occasion. So his first payment was in January of 2019, 23 A. Yes. 24 into his bank account. 24 Q. And this is dealt with from your paragraph 4.44. 25 Q. After it had been decided by the MAPPA panel that 25 Did Khan have a job interview in mid−April 2019?

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1 A. Yes, he did, with Screwfix, the hardware store, however, 1 course and obtained a CSCS card for construction work 2 once it was disclosed the offences he had been convicted 2 in June 2019? 3 of, he was unsuccessful. 3 A. That’s correct, yes. 4 Q. So the employer lost interest when he gave the necessary 4 Q. The jury have already heard that Khan was invited to and 5 disclosure of his offences? 5 attended a digital innovation event, hosted by 6 A. Yes. 6 Learning Together at Whitemoor Prison −− 7 Q. Now, looking at your paragraph 4.46, is it right that 7 A. Yes. 8 there is a reference in the probation notes to 8 Q. −− on 12 June 2019. 9 Usman Khan testing positive for cannabis in April 2019? 9 A. That’s right. 10 A. There is, however that is believed to be an error on the 10 Q. You deal with this at paragraph 4.59. Is it right that 11 part of the approved premises. 11 that visit was considered in MAPPA meetings and Khan’s 12 Q. Is it right that in your investigation , you obtained the 12 attendance was approved? 13 original drug monitoring sheet which showed negative 13 A. That’s correct. 14 tests consistently? 14 Q. How was he accompanied to that event? 15 A. That’s right, yes, at that stage. 15 A. So he was collected by officers from the Prevent Team 16 Q. As we’ll hear, Khan moves out of the approved premises 16 and taken by car to the prison where he was dropped off 17 in September 2019. 17 at the prison. 18 A. Yes. 18 Q. Is it right , as we’ve heard, that he received 19 Q. Is it right that the drugs −− no drug tests continue at 19 a Chromebook computer from Learning Together at that 20 that point? 20 event, which was not able to connect to the internet, 21 A. That’s correct. 21 but which had various educational software loaded on? 22 Q. I’m now at your paragraph 4.47. Were Usman Khan’s 22 A. Yes, that’s right , to assist with his creative writing. 23 licence conditions amended around this time, so the 23 Q. Following that visit , looking at your paragraph 4.63, 24 spring of 2019? 24 what was Khan’s mood? 25 A. Yes, they originally , as we saw, were between 7.00 and 25 A. So Khan was upbeat, and he was talking about how well

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1 7.00, and they were moved so that he was allowed out 1 the event had gone. He also mentioned how he’d seen 2 until 9.00 pm. So they were 9.00 pm until 7.00 am. 2 a number of prison officers that he knew from his time 3 Q. So his curfew hour extended from being inside from 3 in prison and that they were very glad to see him and 4 7.00 pm to being inside from 9.00 pm? 4 that he was doing so well post−release. 5 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did he also make a contact at that event in the form of 6 Q. Was there a further modification of his licence 6 a lady called Julia Nix? 7 conditions in June 2019, concerning his sign−on 7 A. That’s right, yes. 8 requirements? 8 Q. Who was she, and who is she? 9 A. Yes. 9 A. She works for the Jobcentre, I believe . 10 Q. Was that a removal of the daily sign−on requirements? 10 Q. I think, is this right , she was an official at the 11 A. That’s correct, yes. So he would be allowed out for the 11 Department of Work and Pensions? 12 duration of the day, whereas previously he had to return 12 A. That’s right, yes. 13 home. 13 Q. Did she go on then to assist Usman Khan in looking for 14 Q. Thank you very much. 14 work in various ways. 15 Following the unsuccessful interview with Screwfix, 15 A. Yes, she did. She maintained quite close contacts with 16 did Khan continue job searches, including by going to 16 him in a professional capacity from that point onwards. 17 the library , logging onto the internet with his mentor 17 Q. Looking now at your paragraph 4.65, in the course of 18 present and doing searches for jobs by that means? 18 those job search efforts which were assisted by the 19 A. Yes, that’s right . 19 various people we have discussed, was a particular 20 Q. As well as dealing with the Jobcentre and with Ixion? 20 construction job considered? 21 A. That’s correct, yes, and he applied for a CSCS card, 21 A. Yes, so he wanted to actually get a driving licence and 22 which is a construction industry card. 22 wanted to apply for a dump truck course to help him get 23 Q. And if we bring up {DC5224/1}. Sorry, I must have the 23 a job in construction, as I believe high−speed railway 24 wrong reference. We can take that down. Is it right 24 were looking for workers, and that would have assisted 25 that he successfully completed the construction skills 25 him getting a job there.

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1 Q. Was the possibility of Usman Khan obtaining a dumper 1 you about in a moment. 2 truck licence or qualification raised by Ixion with the 2 A. Sure. 3 probation officer , Mr Skelton? 3 Q. So taking that off screen, the visit to London is raised 4 A. That’s correct, yes, and then I believe it was discussed 4 at the MAPPA meeting of August 2019 but, is this right, 5 at the next MAPPA meeting. 5 at that stage in the minutes, no discussion of specific 6 Q. Is it right that, in fact , the possibility of Khan doing 6 risks to do with that −− to do with that visit? 7 a dumper truck qualification was considered quite 7 A. That’s right, it wasn’t discussed. 8 extensively by the police managing him, as well as in 8 Q. I think, is this right , although we’ll hear reference to 9 the MAPPA meeting? 9 MAPPA minutes for meetings in the months that follow, up 10 A. It was, yes, but it was deemed not appropriate at that 10 to November 2019, those similarly don’t contain 11 stage due to the risks that that presented. 11 discussion of specific risks related to the London visit 12 Q. Quite simply, because large vehicles have been used in 12 or how to mitigate them? 13 devastating terrorist attacks, for example, that in 13 A. That’s right, it doesn’t appear in the minutes. 14 Nice? 14 Q. We’re now at paragraph 4.82 of your report, and 15 A. That’s correct. 15 I ’m moving on to the period September/October 2019. 16 Q. Were there a number of further job search opportunities 16 In September 2019, did Usman Khan obtain a flat in 17 which were pursued, about which we’ll hear in more 17 Stafford? 18 detail in due course? 18 A. Yes, a premises in Wolverhampton Road. 19 A. Yes, he continued to seek work. 19 Q. If we go, please, to {DC5314/3}, can we see here that 20 Q. Did any of them lead either to a job or to a clear 20 your investigation turned up the tenancy agreement for 21 prospect of one in the future? 21 that property, beginning on 17 September? 22 A. No. 22 A. That’s correct. 23 Q. Now, in August 2019, as we’ve seen with the witnesses 23 Q. And did he, in fact, move in a week later, on 24 from Learning Together, was Khan invited to the 24 24 September? 25 Fishmongers’ Hall event to take place at the end of 25 A. Yes.

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1 November 2019? 1 Q. Was that a one−bedroom flat near the centre of Stafford? 2 A. That’s correct, I believe it was a text message from 2 A. That’s right, yes. 3 Dr Ludlow. 3 Q. If we put on screen {PH0035/1} we can, I think, see the 4 Q. I think we saw that on screen last week. 4 front of the property where the flat is on one of the 5 A. Yes. 5 upper floors . 6 Q. Now, if we put on screen {DC6415/1}, we can see here the 6 A. That’s correct. 7 MAPPA minutes of 22 August 2019, and if we go, please, 7 Q. As you’ve told us, he had first put his name down for 8 to {DC6415/4}, I think we will see that the 8 a flat in January 2019; did he experience some 9 Learning Together event is discussed right at the bottom 9 difficulties in obtaining a flat through the local 10 of the page, and it begins: 10 authority? 11 ”UK [Usman Khan] continues to have contact with 11 A. Yes, that’s right . In the end he had to rent the flat 12 Cambridge University on an almost weekly basis. He has 12 privately . 13 applied for a bursary to support his attendance on 13 Q. As we saw briefly in that last set of MAPPA meetings, is 14 a short course beginning next April.” 14 it right that the move to this property was known to the 15 So that’s a course in April 2020? 15 MAPPA agencies and discussed extensively, including the 16 A. Yes. 16 details of the property? 17 Q. ”The course will last 1−day and will...” 17 A. It was, yes, and I believe the Prevent officer had 18 Over the page, please {DC6415/5}: 18 actually assisted him in moving in. 19 ” ... entail an overnight stay. The university are 19 Q. During September and October 2019, did Usman Khan’s job 20 also hosting another 1−day event in November −− 20 search efforts continue? 21 [Usman Khan] will be invited, however will have likely 21 A. Yes, they did, without success. 22 moved on from the [approved premises] by this point and 22 Q. Was he working, at this stage, with a lady called 23 will need to source his own means of travel.” 23 Lisa Powell, who was a job coach at Ixion? 24 A. Yes. 24 A. That’s right, yes. 25 Q. Then it goes on to discuss accommodation which I’ll ask 25 Q. Was he also continuing communications with Julia Nix,

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1 the official from the Department of Work and Pensions, 1 Q. Now, in fact, how did Khan’s attendance at the gym 2 who he had met at the June visit to Whitemoor? 2 proceed in the weeks that followed that? 3 A. That’s right. 3 A. He stopped attending the gym. 4 Q. And we’ll hear from her, but is it right that in 4 Q. Did he give any reason for doing so? 5 exchanges with her in late October 2019, he expressed 5 A. So I think he −− the gym owner actually texted him 6 some pessimism about the prospects of finding work? 6 because he said he hadn’t seen him, and he claimed that 7 A. Yes. 7 he had hurt his hand, then he said he had a cold, so 8 Q. You can take that off screen now. 8 I think he was making excuses. 9 On 31 October 2019, did some officers from the 9 Q. Did he stop going to the gym entirely by 10 Prevent Team, those responsible for supervising Khan’s 10 early November 2019? 11 compliance, carry out an unannounced visit to his flat ? 11 A. Yes. 12 A. They did, yes. This was part of the strategy to manage 12 Q. Was there a final MAPPA meeting that took place before 13 him. 13 the attack on 14 November 2019? 14 Q. If we can put on screen {DC5256/1}, please. Is this 14 A. Yes. 15 an intelligence report recording that visit ? 15 Q. Could we put on screen {DC6417/1}, and go, please, to 16 A. That’s right, yes. 16 page 5 {DC6417/5}. Do we see just above ”Panel 17 Q. And do we see that it says this : 17 discussion” that Khan at that stage had told those 18 ”On ... 31st of October 2019 at 0930 hours officers 18 managing him that he was not going to the gym because it 19 from Staffordshire [ police ] attended the home address of 19 was too cold? 20 Usman Khan [the address is then given] to carry out 20 A. Yes. 21 an unannounced visit. 21 Q. And that he was, according to monitoring tag data, out 22 ”After a short time Usman answered the buzzer and 22 for much of the day? 23 let officers into the property. On climbing the stairs 23 A. That’s right. 24 he was waiting at the door of his flat as he explained 24 Q. And then under ”Panel discussion”, if we move down, can 25 that he had just got out of bed. He was wearing a black 25 we see −− if we can get the paragraph just below, thank

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1 T−shirt and shorts. Of note his hair has been cut short 1 you. Mr Stephenson −− he is from Staffordshire Police 2 into a crew cut and his beard is now fuller .” 2 Special Branch; is that right? 3 Over the page, please {DC5256/2}: 3 A. That’s right. 4 ”He was happy to have officers in the flat which was 4 Q. −− confirmed that reviews of the tag data shows that 5 dark as the curtains were drawn. He had a large number 5 Usman Khan often makes trips into Stafford and then back 6 of Xbox 360 games and DVDs that he had purchased from 6 home, and a colleague of his states that on Saturdays he 7 CEX and spends a lot of his time playing and watching 7 is often not leaving his home address. 8 them. 8 A. Yes. 9 ”He stated that he is still going to the gym but 9 Q. And then PS Forsyth, who leads the Staffordshire Prevent 10 only a couple of times a week and he has stopped going 10 Team, highlights how Usman Khan had foretold agencies 11 to the mosque. He did not give any reason why this was. 11 what his lifestyle would be like: he would be 12 ”He no longer has a mentor which is causing issues 12 comfortable in his own company and what the tag data is 13 for him as he would use the mentor to access the 13 displaying is not be a change from what was to be 14 internet . He is struggling to find employment because 14 expected? 15 he says he cannot go on the internet to search for jobs 15 A. Yes. 16 as most are advertised on the internet and also 16 Q. And then Mr Skelton noted that Usman Khan is: 17 applications are online for a lot of positions . He 17 ” ... always cheerful in his presentation during 18 stated that he was going to bring this up with his 18 supervision. He displays no behaviours to indicate we 19 probation officer and that he was also interested in 19 should be concerned for his mental health; he is always 20 getting a monitored device so that he could access the 20 pleasant and he visits his parents each Sunday. Had he 21 internet at home. 21 come to reside in Stoke, he would have had family close 22 ”He stated that he still visits his family on 22 by, however he chose to stay away from the area −− this 23 a regular basis but doesn’t engage with others living in 23 choice could be viewed in either a positive or negative 24 the flats around him.” 24 light . It ’s positive in that he chose to stay away from 25 A. That’s correct. 25 trouble and avoid old associates in Stoke, but it ’s

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1 negative in that in doing so, he has to an extent also 1 his employment and a trip to Cambridge. 2 isolated himself.” 2 ”The trip to Cambridge is one that he has been 3 A. That’s right. 3 discussing with his probation officer and 4 Q. So the MAPPA minutes are recording that Usman Khan is 4 Sergeant Forsyth, it is part of the ongoing work he is 5 leading a relatively solitary lifestyle , but expressing 5 doing with the university which started whilst in 6 himself happy in his own company. 6 prison. He mentioned that he is still looking for work 7 A. That’s right, yes. 7 but is finding it difficult to find anything. Hehas 8 Q. Then if we go to the penultimate paragraph on this page, 8 been discussing this with his probation officer who is 9 the minutes state that: 9 trying to find a solution to him getting online tofind 10 ”[Usman Khan] is scheduled to attend an event in 10 work.” 11 London on 29 November 2019 through Cambridge University. 11 So that’s once again referring to the inability to 12 He will be travelling via train from Staffordshire to 12 use the internet because he doesn’t have a mentor? 13 Euston, at which point he will be met by colleagues from 13 A. That’s right. 14 Cambridge whom will then take him in a taxi to the event 14 Q. ”We then asked about his Xbox games and that we had been 15 location. He will then be transported back to Euston 15 asked to list what he had and that we would like to 16 Station via taxi , and from here he will catch the train 16 photograph them to achieve this. He was not happy with 17 back to Staffordshire . Calum Forsyth noted that the 17 this and asked if this was to do with his licence 18 logistics for the trip need to be discussed and 18 conditions or his part 4.” 19 confirmed. Ken Skelton [the probation officer ]noted 19 Part 4 is the terrorism notification ? 20 that [Usman Khan] has not had much contact with 20 A. That’s right. 21 Cambridge recently −− he was given his Chromebook but 21 Q. ”He was told that it wasn’t and that we were just 22 does not appear to be doing much with it.” 22 asking, he reluctantly allowed us to take the photos 23 Then there’s reference to the course in April 2020. 23 that are attached. He stated that this was a break down 24 A. Yes. 24 in the trust and said that he wanted Sergeant Forsyth to 25 Q. So, once again, we’ll hear from witnesses about this 25 contact him over it as he would be speaking to his

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1 discussion , but the consideration of the trip to London 1 solicitor in due course about it. 2 as minuted refers to logistics rather than risks? 2 ”After we had taken the photos he opened the door 3 A. It looks like it ’s decided already by this stage, yes. 3 and asked us to leave.” 4 Q. We can take that off the screen now. 4 A. That’s right. 5 Now moving to further events in 2019, I’m now at 5 Q. So photos were taken of a large number of Xbox games and 6 your paragraph 4.110. Is it right that on 14 November, 6 you obtained those photos and may be asked about them by 7 so after the MAPPA meeting but on the same day, the 7 others. 8 Prevent officers , the officers from the 8 A. Yes. 9 Staffordshire Prevent Team, carried out an unannounced 9 Q. Over the following days, is it right that Khan had some 10 visit to Usman Khan’s home? 10 contact with Learning Together about arrangements for 11 A. Yes, I think that was a consequence of the MAPPA meeting 11 the London visit? 12 where they had asked them to do that visit. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. How long did they stay in the flat? 13 Q. On 18 November, did Khan meet Lisa Powell from Ixion 14 A. So they arrived at 11.47, we know this from CCTV, and 14 about plans for employment in construction? 15 they left at exactly 12.00 hours. 15 A. That’s right, yes, to finish his disclosure letter . 16 Q. And I think inside the flat for 11 minutes? 16 Q. Then your paragraph 4.117. On 19 November, so now 17 A. Yes. 17 five days on from that unannounced visit, 10 days before 18 Q. And if we look at {DC7356/1} we will see an email which 18 the attack, did Mr Skelton make an unannounced visit to 19 records that visit from PC Oakley, one of the Prevent 19 Khan at home? 20 officers , to PS Forsyth, the leader of the team? 20 A. That’s right, yes. 21 A. Yes. 21 Q. How did Khan come across on this occasion? 22 Q. ”Visit was carried out at the home address of Usman Khan 22 A. So Khan was still upset about police taking photographs 23 on 14 November 2019 at 12 noon. Usman was dressed in 23 of his video games and DVDs on the 14th. Ken reassured 24 a black T−shirt and grey shorts. He was happy to have 24 Khan that he had done nothing wrong and continued to 25 us in the flat and the initial conversation was around 25 discuss employment options with him and Khan presented

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1 as feeling positive about attending the 1 A. He did, yes, that’s right . 2 Learning Together event in London and confirmed he had 2 Q. As we’ve heard from Mr Larmour, is it right that during 3 received his ticket and there were no concerns or issues 3 that call , he recalls Usman Khan being 4 raised . 4 uncharacteristically brief , even brusque? 5 Q. Your paragraph 4.118, please. On 21 November, was Khan 5 A. Yes, yes, he thought that was quite weird because he’s 6 supposed to attend an appointment with Dawn Spilsbury, 6 normally very talkative . 7 one of those assisting him in finding work? 7 Q. On Sunday, 24 November 2019, did Usman Khan make a visit 8 A. That’s right, yes. 8 to his family home? 9 Q. What happened? 9 A. He did, yes, for the last time. 10 A. So he communicated with her via text message and stated 10 Q. Is it right that he had been paying reasonably regular 11 that he was ill . Then Ken called Khan, noticed he was 11 Sunday visits to his parents’ home, seeing them and 12 getting despondent but convinced him to go or else 12 other members of his family? 13 provide a sick certificate . So Khan went later but Ken 13 A. That’s true, yes. 14 didn’t want to keep −− he told Ken he didn’t want to 14 Q. If we put on the screen, please, {DC7419/48}, I think 15 keep applying for jobs, he wasn’t going to get anywhere. 15 it ’s right that your team compiled CCTV footage from the 16 His tag data showed little movement during that day as 16 address where Khan lived in the period leading up to the 17 well . 17 attack, and you were able to identify the timings of 18 Q. So on this day, 21 November 2019, Khan had these 18 various visits , including visits by the Prevent and 19 communications with Mr Skelton, which suggested that he 19 probation officers , as you described, and also the 20 was getting despondent about finding work? 20 timings of Usman Khan coming and going for these Sunday 21 A. Yes. 21 visits to his parents? 22 Q. But in the aftermath of that, did Ms Spilsbury continue 22 A. That’s correct, yes, and on this day he left the address 23 to discuss potential employment opportunities with 23 at 10.31. As you can see, the correct time is 10.31. 24 Usman Khan? 24 Q. If we can focus on the image, please, is that a CCTV 25 A. Yes, she talked about a painting and decorating course, 25 capture of Usman Khan coming down the stairs from his

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1 and a plastering course which was due to start in March 1 flat into the front hallway? 2 of 2020. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. So we’re now getting into the week leading up to the 3 Q. And that’s 10.31 in correct time? 4 attack. 4 A. Yes. 5 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Shall we break there? 5 Q. Then {DC7419/51} of the same document, please, if we 6 MR HOUGH: Would that be a convenient time for the lunch 6 look at both the first image, do we see at a little 7 break? 7 after 8 o’clock, 8.20 that evening, Usman Khan returns 8 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Thank you. We’ll pick up on that, members 8 home, as seen on exterior CCTV, with his brother? 9 of the jury , after we’ve had our lunch break. Thank you 9 A. That’s correct, yes. 10 very much. 10 Q. If we go to the lower image on that page, we can see the 11 (In the absence of the jury) 11 two of them going in the front hallway? 12 I ’ ll rise . 12 A. That’s right. 13 (1.00 pm) 13 Q. Was it standard or commonplace for Usman Khan to be away 14 (The short adjournment) 14 for practically the whole day on Sunday, seeing his 15 (2.02 pm) 15 family? 16 (In the presence of the jury) 16 A. Yes. 17 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Mr Hough. 17 Q. Is it right , however, that in the course of your 18 MR HOUGH: DCI Brown, we had been continuing with our 18 investigation , you identified no improper, certainly no 19 exploration of Usman Khan’s life after release from 19 criminal conduct in relation to any of these visits ? 20 prison, and we had reached a point one week before the 20 A. That’s correct, yes. 21 attack. So on Friday, 22 November 2019, as you note in 21 Q. Moving on to the following day, Monday, 22 your report, paragraph 4.122, did Simon Larmour from 22 25 November 2019, paragraph 4.123 of your report, was 23 Learning Together call Usman Khan to make arrangements 23 there a further meeting between Lisa Powell of Ixion and 24 for meeting him at Euston and taking him to 24 Khan on this day? 25 Fishmongers’ Hall? 25 A. That’s right, yes. They talked about Khan spending more

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1 time on his own. 1 Q. So he was in the property on that occasion for a little 2 Q. How did Khan refer to or describe his feelings about 2 over three−quarters of an hour? 3 spending a lot of time on his own? 3 A. Yes. 4 A. He told her that he wasn’t concerned that he was 4 Q. And you told us that he discussed the event that was 5 isolating himself, as the most important thing for him 5 coming up three days afterwards in Fishmongers’ Hall, 6 was that he wasn’t breaching his licence conditions and 6 and Khan said he was apprehensive about going but 7 that he was used to being on his own from his time in 7 positive? 8 prison. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Moving, then, to Tuesday, 26 November 2019, 9 Q. Did Khan also on that date meet Liz Young, the work 10 paragraph 4.125, was there a call on this day between 10 coach at the Jobcentre, for a fortnightly meeting? 11 Khan and Julia Nix, the lady from the Department for 11 A. That’s correct, yes. 12 Work and Pensions who was trying to help him find 12 Q. We can take that image off screen. 13 employment? 13 Moving then to the day before that attack, and 14 A. That’s correct, yes. 14 I will ask you about actions of planning and 15 Q. What did Khan, in a nutshell, tell Julia Nix on that 15 preparations later , but in terms of communications on 16 day? 16 the day before the attack, Thursday, 28 November, did 17 A. So −− and they were discussing employment opportunities 17 Khan receive communications from Ms Spilsbury about 18 and Julia Nix asked him about −− well, said: are you 18 employment matters? 19 having any dark thoughts? And he said he no longer was 19 A. That’s right, by a text message. She contacted him to 20 having any terrorist or black thoughts, and he confirmed 20 tell him that she had put together funding for the 21 that’s why he’d moved away from the people that he had 21 plastering course and was awaiting for Ken to authorise 22 previously associated with in Stoke−on−Trent, and had 22 Khan’s attendance. 23 moved to Stafford, and I quote: 23 She also called to see how he was. I think he was 24 ”I am 100% positive, I do not have any terrorist 24 in the barber’s shop at the time when she called him. 25 thoughts at all”. 25 Q. So he told her that he was in a barber’s shop getting a

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1 From Khan. 1 haircut? 2 Q. Did he also tell her, as well as the fact , or the 2 A. Yes. 3 suggestion that he had no negative, black or terrorist 3 Q. But that he seemed fine? 4 thoughts, that he was delighted to have been invited to 4 A. Yes. 5 the event in London later that week? 5 Q. Looking now at your paragraph 4.132, is it right that 6 A. That’s right, yes. 6 Khan spoke to the phone to members of his family several 7 Q. Looking, then, at your paragraph 4.127 on page 40, was 7 times that day? 8 Usman Khan also visited by the probation officer, Ken 8 A. That’s right, yes. I think the first was at 9 Skelton, that day? 9 10.25 hours. 10 A. That’s right, yes, and Ken identified that he’d moved on 10 Q. 10.25 in the morning, and when was the last call? 11 from his frustrations over the visit on 14 November and 11 A. The last call was at 21.22 hours. 12 they were talking again about work, particularly doing 12 Q. With which family members did he speak? 13 a plastering course, and also getting a property that he 13 A. So he spoke to his sister , where he told her about 14 wanted to renovate. Again, he also spoke about the 14 buying a pair of boots and having a haircut, and he 15 alumni event, which he was a little bit apprehensive 15 spoke to his mother, where he talked about −− moaning 16 about going on, but remained positive about attending. 16 that he had his electricity bill to pay. 17 Q. Could we put on screen {DC7419/55}. Looking at the 17 Q. Did he also speak for a time to his father? 18 image in the centre of this page, do we see that your 18 A. I believe so. Yes. Sorry, yes. So his father, he 19 CCTV trawl picked up Mr Skelton arriving at Khan’s flat 19 spoke to his father and told him that life was harder. 20 on 26 November at 9.52 in the morning? 20 His father told him his life was harder the first time 21 A. Yes, that’s right . 21 they came to the UK, and he told his father about going 22 Q. And then {DC7419/56} of the same document, please. Did 22 to the event in London. 23 the trawl pick up him leaving, if we go to the lower 23 Q. In general terms, how did his family members describe 24 image, at a time correctly timed at 10.39? 24 Khan’s presentation in those conversations? 25 A. Yes, that’s right . 25 A. They didn’t say there was anything unusual about the way

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1 he presented himself; that he was quite normal, this was 1 A. That’s right. 2 quite normal for him to maintain communications with his 2 Q. He was, as far as he described matters, largely staying 3 family. There was no indication that he was troubled in 3 at home, playing computer games and watching videos or 4 any way or that anything was wrong. 4 walking around Stafford? 5 Q. Finally that evening, did Khan exchange some text 5 A. Yes. 6 messages with Ms Nix, the lady from the Department for 6 Q. As you’ve told us, his mentor arrangement had ceased 7 Work and Pensions? 7 in August 2019, which restricted his ability to search 8 A. That’s right, yes. 8 for work? 9 Q. What was the substance of those messages? 9 A. Yes. 10 A. So Julia Nix texted Khan to ask him if he had been able 10 Q. Although, of course, various people were helping him 11 to access an email that had been sent to him and 11 with that? 12 obviously he replied that no, he couldn’t because he 12 A. That’s right, yes. 13 couldn’t access the internet . So Lisa Powell tried to 13 Q. May we now move to the planning and preparation for the 14 assist and suggested that probation could review these 14 attack, which you address from page 42 of your report. 15 restrictions so that he could access this material. 15 Do you know, based on your investigations, for certain 16 Q. Just a few points by way of overview before we turn to 16 when Khan began planning and preparing for the attack? 17 the planning and preparation of the attack. Is it right 17 A. It ’s not entirely clear , no, but we know that on 18 that during the period following his release from 18 15 November he received the train tickets to go to the 19 prison, Khan had complied rigorously with his licence 19 event, and from then on we saw certain purchases and 20 conditions? 20 actions that indicated he’d started the planning and 21 A. Yes, that’s right . 21 preparation. 22 Q. No evidence of non−compliance? 22 Q. The train tickets were posted on 15 November and then 23 A. None. 23 there are some actions. 24 Q. Based on all your investigations , has there been any 24 A. Yes. 25 positive evidence of Khan having been in contact with 25 Q. But as we’ll see, it is the later actions that were

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1 any of his old associates , friends from before his time 1 particularly consistent with attack−planning? 2 in prison or his co−defendants? 2 A. That’s right, mainly the day before. 3 A. No, there’s no evidence of that. 3 Q. Mainly the day before the attack? 4 Q. Did you consider the data from his GPS tag showing his 4 A. On the 28th. 5 movements? 5 Q. So looking at the various actions that you did consider, 6 A. Yes. 6 first of all your paragraph 5.5, what did Khan doon 7 Q. Was that consistent with his compliance with his 7 20 November 2019, so nine days before the attack? 8 restrictions ? 8 A. So on that date he purchased a roll of T−Rex gaffer tape 9 A. Absolutely. It just showed him going to the shops, to 9 at Tesco in Stafford at 17.18 in the evening. That 10 the gym, just the normal movements that he was allowed 10 tape, we believe, was used in the creation of the IED. 11 to take. 11 We know that he left the flat at around about 5.10 12 Q. But, of course, not going to the gym in the last month? 12 and returned at 5.25, so it would suggest he went out 13 A. But not going to the gym in the last month, yes. 13 specifically to purchase that roll of tape. 14 Q. Is it right that your team considered Khan’s internet 14 Q. If we put on screen {DC8000/5}. Now, can we see here 15 use at the library and the emails which he wrote and 15 a graphic that’s been produced showing the distance 16 sent in the presence of his mentors? 16 between his home address and the Tesco where the roll of 17 A. That’s right, yes. We reviewed all those emails and we 17 gaffer tape was bought? 18 were satisfied that there was nothing untoward. 18 A. That’s right, yes. 19 Q. So nothing untoward in any of those. 19 Q. And do we see over on the right−hand side of the page, 20 As you have indicated a number of times, it’s right 20 CCTV stills showing the purchase of that gaffer tape? 21 that from his move to his own flat in September 2019, 21 A. Yes. 22 there were indications of Khan becoming more isolated? 22 Q. Usman Khan there wearing a baseball cap and a puffer 23 A. Yes. 23 jacket? 24 Q. Over that period, those last two or three months, Khan 24 A. Yes. 25 was not going to the gym or the mosque? 25 Q. Just to be clear , the gaffer tape which Usman Khan

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1 purchased could have been used for perfectly innocent 1 a telephone call with Ms Spilsbury that day −− 2 purposes? 2 A. Yes. 3 A. Absolutely, albeit we didn’t really find any other use 3 Q. −− in which he said he was having a haircut. What was 4 for it inside the flat . 4 the time of that call ? 5 Q. So you can’t be confident, is this right , that hehad 5 A. That was 11.09 hours. 6 an attack planned in his mind on that date? 6 Q. So the withdrawal of cash at 10.36, the call with 7 A. Not for sure. 7 Ms Spilsbury when he said he was at the barbers at 8 Q. Just so the jury knows, sir , this will be part of 8 11.09? 9 a bundle that they will receive at the end of the 9 A. Yes. 10 case −− 10 Q. What is the potential significance of Khan visiting the 11 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Yes. 11 barbers in the context of this case? 12 MR HOUGH: −− which you will take them through, we will take 12 A. So cutting hair , trimming beards, is a common act of 13 them through, at the time of your summing−up. 13 preparation for cleanliness , which is part of the act of 14 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Thank you. 14 martyrdom within extremist Islamic traditions. 15 MR HOUGH: Your paragraph 5.6 now, DCI Brown. On Friday, 15 Q. As an experienced counter−terrorism officer, you have 16 22 November 2019, so one week before and on the day that 16 come across that as an act of preparation before? 17 Khan spoke to Simon Larmour to make the arrangements for 17 A. Yes, I have. 18 attending the London event, what steps did Khan take 18 Q. Your paragraph 5.10, please. What’s the next 19 which may be significant? 19 significant act or step you have Khan taking that day? 20 A. So he purchased the Dernier red cross crossover man bag 20 A. So Khan then visited the Trespass Camping and Survival 21 in TK Maxx at a retail park in Stafford, and we believe 21 Store, again, in −− I think it was Gaolgate Street in 22 that’s the bag that he used to go to the event and 22 Stafford, at 13.12 hours, and that’s where he purchased 23 obviously was left in the left −hand cubicle. 23 a men’s Trespass Boyce padded navy jacket. 24 Q. So that’s the bag which we saw in a photograph earlier 24 Q. If we put on screen {DC8000/9}, we see on the left a map 25 in the case sitting on the cubicle after he had left to 25 showing the location of the Trespass store, and

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1 commence his attack? 1 Usman Khan’s address. 2 A. That’s correct. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Was anything said by the employee who served him to your 3 Q. Then a still showing him in the store when he was 4 officers about his demeanour on that occasion? 4 purchasing the blue padded jacket? 5 A. So the employee remembered thinking that Khan looked 5 A. Yes. 6 suspicious because he wore sunglasses inside the store , 6 Q. What was the size of that jacket? 7 and when she asked if he was having a nice day he just 7 A. So it was a size extra large . 8 grunted at her, so there was very little engagement. 8 Q. What was the cost? 9 Q. If we go, please, to {DC8000/7} of the jury bundle, can 9 A. 49.99. 10 we see there the location of the TK Maxx store marked on 10 Q. Did he already own a padded jacket? 11 the map on the left, and then on the right, a CCTV still 11 A. He did. He had recently purchased one at size large. 12 showing Khan’s purchase, and at the bottom right, 12 Q. So does this purchase raise any particular possibility 13 an exhibit photograph of the bag found at the scene? 13 in your mind? 14 A. That’s correct, yes. 14 A. Yes, so I believe that he’s purchased this jacket a size 15 Q. Now looking at paragraph 5.8, and we’ll take this 15 larger so that he would be able to hide what we know is 16 slowly, if we may, on the day before the attack is it 16 the fake suicide belt that was worn underneath later on 17 right that Khan purchased most of the items that were 17 during the attack. 18 used in the attack? 18 Q. Your paragraph 5.11 next, what’s the next act of 19 A. Yes. 19 preparation which you have identified? 20 Q. What did he do at the start of the day, according to 20 A. So at 13.36 hours he visited Sports Direct in Stafford 21 your records of him? 21 where he purchased a pair of Nike Manoa boots at £79 and 22 A. So at 10.36 hours he withdrew £20 in cash from the HSBC 22 a black Sondico Base Core top, size extra large , at £14. 23 ATM at Stafford Market. 23 Q. Was that the tight base layer top he was wearing at the 24 Q. I’ ll return to the possible use of that cash in 24 event and were those the boots he was wearing at the 25 a moment. You told us earlier that Mr Khan had 25 event on the 29th?

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1 A. Yes, that’s correct . 1 A. Yes, that’s right , so he again visited the same Tesco 2 Q. Could we put on the screen page 11 of the jury bundle, 2 store at 17.15 hours where he purchased another pack of 3 {DC8000/11}, we once again see identified his home 3 T−Rex gaffer tape which, again, we believe matched the 4 address, the Sports Direct store , and then over on the 4 tape used to wrap the fake explosives on the belt. 5 right , a still showing him purchasing those items. 5 Q. If we put on screen {DC8000/15}, and can we see there 6 A. Yes. 6 the Tesco identified and a CCTV still of the purchase of 7 Q. Next, paragraph 5.12, what was the next act of 7 the gaffer tape that evening, 5.15 in the evening? 8 preparation you identified ? 8 A. That’s correct, yes. 9 A. So at 13.54 he purchased a pair of scissors and 9 Q. Now, during all of the steps of preparation you’ve 10 a motorbike mask from Poundstretcher in Stafford which 10 described, you haven’t mentioned purchase of the knives? 11 he paid for in cash, and we recovered the receipt for 11 A. Yes. 12 these items. Then he also purchased razors and eyebrow 12 Q. Did your team investigate to try to discover when and 13 wax strips. 13 from where the knives used in the attack were purchased? 14 Q. If we could put on screen page 13 of the jury bundle, 14 A. Yes, so we visited every shop in the Stafford area that 15 {DC8000/13}, we see the location of the Poundstretcher 15 would have been within the vicinity of where his data 16 store and his home address, and on the right, stills of 16 showed that he was, and we also visited the market. 17 him purchasing those items? 17 The knives −− the packaging for the knives, we’ll 18 A. Yes. 18 hear probably later that we recovered that packaging, so 19 Q. Where were the scissors found following the attack? 19 we believe that the knives were purchased fairly 20 A. So the scissors were found in the bag in the left −hand 20 recently , in fact , I believe they were purchased on the 21 cubicle at Fishmongers’ Hall. 21 28th. 22 Q. Based on your knowledge of the attack, why would he have 22 The knives themselves, that make was not sold in any 23 needed scissors? 23 shop within Stafford, however, they are consistent with 24 A. So scissors would have been to cut the tape that he used 24 the type of products that are sold on the market, albeit 25 to wrap around his hands to tie the knives to his 25 that we didn’t find those knives at the time we visited

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1 gloves. 1 the market. I suspect that that’s where they were sold. 2 Q. What’s the significance of the motorbike face mask? 2 Q. You said that packaging for the knives was discovered at 3 A. Well, again, he was wearing the face mask when he came 3 Usman Khan’s flat, and we will turn to that later. 4 out of the toilets , so obviously to hide his face. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And that was a fabric mask covering the lower part of 5 Q. And you went on to say that you believe that the knives 6 the face, of the kind we’ve all got very used to since 6 were, in fact , purchased not just recently , but on the 7 then? 7 day before the attack? 8 A. Yes, that’s right . 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. You said that he also purchased razors and eyebrow wax 9 Q. What led you to that conclusion? 10 strips on that occasion. Based on your experience, does 10 A. Well, as I say, because we found the packaging and also 11 that have any significance? 11 because the withdrawal of the cash, the amount of cash 12 A. Yes, so again, a common act prior to seeking martyrdom 12 he had on him is consistent with the amount of money 13 is preparation with cleanliness , shave or remove bodily 13 spent. We believe those knives would have been −− 14 hair , particularly chest, pubic hair, underarm hair as 14 online they retail at around about £15, so that would 15 well , which is very common and was consistent in this 15 have been consistent with the cash withdrawal and in 16 case. 16 fact there was a previous cash withdrawal that he would 17 Q. You say it was consistent in this case; was anything 17 have used to purchase the knives −− well, go to the 18 found post mortem identifying the use of those items −− 18 barbers and also purchase the items in Poundstretcher, 19 A. Yes. 19 that was about consistent. 20 Q. −− on Usman Khan’s body? 20 Q. Is it right that those items that you have referred to 21 A. Yes, it was clear that he had carried out that act of 21 as potentially being cash purchases, including the 22 shaving his pubic hair and underarms. 22 knives, are not items which are accounted for by any 23 Q. And then finally, your paragraph 5.13, did Khan make one 23 card transactions that you have found in your 24 final shopping visit relevant to preparation for the 24 investigations ? 25 attack? 25 A. That’s correct, yes. Yes. All the other items were

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1 paid for by card, however, the razors and eyebrow wax 1 A. That’s correct, yes. 2 strips were paid for in cash and the mask, and obviously 2 Q. We can put on screen now {DC8000/20}. Did Usman Khan 3 we assume that the knives were paid for in cash as well . 3 travel by that train from Stafford all the way to 4 Q. So, summarising, you consider that the knives were 4 Euston? 5 likely bought on the day before the attack? 5 A. That’s right, yes. 6 A. Yes. 6 Q. Your paragraph 5.19, please. During the course of that 7 Q. Very possibly in a market stall you haven’t been able to 7 journey, was his ticket checked? 8 identify , because none has accepted that such items were 8 A. Yes, at 8.11 hours it was checked by the ticket 9 sold? 9 inspector, who in fact identified he had the wrong 10 A. That’s right, yes. 10 ticket because it was a more expensive train route. 11 Q. But purchase on that day would be consistent with the 11 Q. Without going into unnecessary detail, is it right that 12 cash withdrawals? 12 Khan then bought a discounted ticket, partly with cash 13 A. Yes. 13 and partly with a card payment? 14 Q. May we now turn to Usman Khan’s journey into London, 14 A. That’s correct, yes. 15 which you address from page 44 of your report. Is it 15 Q. Was the bank card payment though later declined? 16 right that you’ve been able to plot every stage of 16 A. That’s right, yes, when it finally connected. 17 Usman Khan’s journey to London on 29 November 2019? 17 Q. You’ve referred to this in your earlier evidence, but 18 A. Yes, that’s right , mainly through CCTV. 18 may I ask you about the timings, please. Did Khan go to 19 Q. Your paragraph 5.16, what was the time of his booked 19 the toilets on the train during that journey? 20 train from Stafford to Euston? 20 A. Yes, so he entered the cubicle at 8.47 hours and he came 21 A. So he was due to catch the 7.39 train. 21 out at 8.54 hours. 22 Q. If we put on screen, please, {DC8000/18}, so this is 22 Q. So that’s a seven−minute period in the toilets? 23 page 18 of what will be the jury bundle, were you able, 23 A. Seven minutes. 24 using the data from Usman Khan’s GPS monitoring tag, to 24 Q. Significantly longer than the time in the toilets at 25 plot his movements from home to the station? 25 Stafford station .

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1 A. Yes. 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So he took a direct route along main roads? 2 Q. And you have told the jury in your earlier evidence that 3 A. Yes. 3 it ’s at this point you’ve deduced Khan probably put on 4 Q. On arrival at the station , what did Khan do? 4 the hoax IED vest? 5 A. So at 7.18 he withdrew £30 in cash from the ATM, which 5 A. Yes. 6 was just outside Stafford railway station , before 6 Q. And you have given your reasons for that? 7 entering. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did he also while at the station briefly go into the 8 Q. I’m now at your paragraph 5.22. When did Khan arrive at 9 gents’ toilets ? 9 Euston? 10 A. He did, yes. 10 A. At 9.08 hours. 11 Q. For what period of time? 11 Q. What did he do when there? 12 A. So 7.23, he visited the toilet , and exited at 7.25, so 12 A. So he was slightly earlier than he had planned to be 13 around about two minutes. 13 because he had got this faster train . He was expected 14 Q. Your paragraph 5.18 next. We have heard that while at 14 to be there at 9.36 so when he arrived at Euston he went 15 the station , Khan called Simon Larmour in something of 15 to the ATM and again withdrew another £30 in cash before 16 a panic about the fact that his train had been 16 he then went to the gents’ toilets at 9.15, leaving at 17 cancelled. 17 9.18. 18 A. That’s what he believed, yes. 18 Q. So his visit to the toilets on this occasion was three 19 Q. What was the timing of his call? 19 minutes or so, again, materially shorter than the time 20 A. So at 7.33 he made that call. 20 in the toilets on the train? 21 Q. Was the problem, or the apparent problem, resolved? 21 A. Yes. 22 A. So it was in so much that he got onto another train, 22 Q. I’m now at your paragraph 5.23. Is it right that Khan 23 a more direct train , in fact , which left at 7.44. 23 then had a call with Simon Larmour and they arranged to 24 Q. Did you identify CCTV from the station showing him 24 meet? 25 boarding that train at 7.44 am? 25 A. That’s right.

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1 Q. We’ve heard from Mr Larmour about the meeting and their 1 that Khan looked suspicious? 2 travel to Fishmongers’ Hall together. 2 A. Yes. 3 A. Yes. 3 Q. If we play on, please. 4 Q. I won’t ask you about that in detail , but may we have on 4 (Video played) 5 screen {DC8000/22}. Does this graphic show the route by 5 Khan is circled in yellow, of course. 6 tube from Euston to Bank, which is the route taken by 6 We can see Khan appears to be holding the bag at 7 Usman Khan, Simon Larmour and John Crilly? 7 this point? 8 A. Yes, that’s correct . 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And some stills on the right−hand side showing 9 Q. We now have him at the counter on the occasion where he 10 Usman Khan at Euston, the lower one with Mr Larmour? 10 was apparently monosyllabic with the shop assistant? 11 A. Yes. 11 A. That’s correct. 12 Q. We can take that image off screen now. 12 Q. He was in the store, I think, between 16.06, 4.06 pm, 13 Turning, then, to two further audio−visual 13 and 16.13? 14 compilations, is it right that your team prepared 14 A. That’s right, I think the time is correct on this , more 15 a compilation of video clips showing the movements of 15 or less . 16 Khan and those visiting him on a number of occasions in 16 Q. We can pause there. If we then move forward in the tape 17 the period before the attack? 17 counter to tape counter 37 minutes and 26 seconds. 18 A. That’s right, yes. 18 I think we’re now going to see some footage of when Khan 19 Q. If we can bring up, please, {AV0021}, please, and pause 19 went out to the shops on the morning of 20 it before it starts . We’re going to show just a few 20 28 November 2019, the day before the attack? 21 clips from this footage at this stage, just to show some 21 A. Yes. 22 of the visits . First of all , can we go to, on the tape 22 Q. Play on, please. 23 counter, 11 minutes and 20 seconds. 23 (Video played) 24 I think if we leave that paused for the moment, 24 He’s leaving the property at 10.23 am? 25 we’re about to see an incident on 14 November 2019, when 25 A. Yes.

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1 the Prevent Team officers visited Usman Khan and carried 1 Q. In the next clip he’s pictured crossing the road into 2 out the unannounced visit when the games were 2 Stafford at 10.30 am? 3 photographed. 3 A. Yes, that’s right . 4 A. That’s correct, yes. 4 Q. In the next clip he is pictured crossing the road in the 5 Q. It says 14 October, I think it ’s 14 November? 5 market square at 10.32 am? 6 A. It ’s 14 November, yes. 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. If we play on, please. 7 Q. He was just picked out at the far end of view by the 8 (Video played) 8 yellow circle ? 9 We’re first of all seeing at the correct timeof 9 A. Yes. 10 11.47, PCs Hemmings and Oakley coming into view at the 10 Q. I think he will be picked up again when he comes back 11 front of the house? 11 into view more clearly. 12 A. Yes. 12 There he is. 13 Q. Then we see them going down the hallway and up the 13 We see him crossing the roundabout on his way, 14 stairs ? 14 I think, to withdrawing some money from the ATM? 15 A. Yes, up to Khan’s flat. 15 A. That’s right, yes, HSBC. 16 Q. This is actually 11.48, you told earlier that they 16 Q. And is this the footage of him withdrawing the £20 from 17 remained in the flat for 11 minutes, and consistent with 17 the ATM at just after 10.35 that morning, which you 18 that, do we see them coming back down at 11.59? 18 think was the money used −− which may have been used for 19 A. Yes. 19 purchasing knives? 20 Q. So that’s the visit of the Prevent Team officers on 20 A. Yes, that’s correct . 21 14 November. If we can pause there and move forward, 21 Q. So at 10.38 to 10.39 he is again pictured walking along 22 please, tape counter 27 minutes and 36 seconds. I think 22 Gaolgate Street in Stafford? 23 we’re now going to see part of some footage showing the 23 A. That’s right. 24 purchase of the man bag on 22 November 2019, this 24 Q. Is he, after this section, absent from CCTV captures for 25 occasion being when the staff member in the shop thought 25 a period?

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1 A. He is, until 12.45, which is when I believe that he’s 1 Q. {PH0035/22}, please, a view which completes the picture 2 most likely to have purchased the knives. 2 of this relatively small room? 3 Q. We can take that off screen now. 3 A. That’s right, yes, you can note the Nike box where the 4 Did your team also prepare a compilation of video 4 boots would have been and the Sports Direct bag. 5 clips showing movements of Khan on his journey into 5 Q. So the Nike box contained those Manoa boots that he 6 London on the day of the attack? 6 bought on the day before the attack? 7 A. That’s right, yes. 7 A. That’s correct. 8 Q. We have seen a number of stills from the compilation. 8 Q. If we go to {PH0035/23} we will see a focus shot on the 9 At this stage I just intend to show the clips from the 9 bedside table, and can we see here some PVC tape? 10 train journey when Khan visits the toilet , both so that 10 A. Yes, that’s right . 11 we can see his clothing and so that we can see the 11 Q. Is that roll clingfilm that we see in the bottom left 12 period when you’ve suggested he may have put on the hoax 12 corner? 13 IED vest? 13 A. Yes, clingfilm was used to wrap around the bandage −− 14 A. Yes. 14 crepe bandage that was used to create the image of the 15 Q. So if we can bring up, please, compilation {AV0022}, and 15 explosive . 16 may we start this at tape counter 11 minutes and 12 16 Q. And also over on the right−hand side of the chest of 17 seconds. 17 drawers, some of the eyebrow shaper wax strips? 18 (Video played) 18 A. Yes, that’s right , we believe that’s for the purposes of 19 We’re now going to see Usman Khan going towards the 19 removing hair, for reasons we’ve already discussed. 20 toilet carrying a bag and a bottle of water. 20 Q. Yes, and then {PH0035/27}, please. Can we see a chest 21 A. Yes. 21 of drawers, was this also in the bedroom? 22 Q. We see him coming towards us. 22 A. Yes. 23 Then seven minutes later, from a different 23 Q. With a number of plastic bottles? 24 perspective, the opposite perspective, we see Usman Khan 24 A. Yes. 25 leaving the toilet and returning to his seat? 25 Q. What’s the use of those plastic bottles that’s

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1 A. Yes. 1 significant ? 2 Q. You can take that down now. 2 A. Well, I don’t think the plastic bottles were actually 3 Is it fair to say that we can’t really see from that 3 used in the device, but I suspect that he was trying 4 footage whether he has put on anything underneath the 4 different things out and they may well have been part of 5 jacket, but it is done up and quite bulky throughout? 5 that sort of experimentation, but note the crepe bandage 6 A. That’s right, it ’s really difficult to say because the 6 as well which was used within the device. 7 jacket is so big and it’s a size too big, as we know. 7 Q. Then {PH0035/33}, please. Do we see here a photograph 8 Q. Final topic, please. In the course of your 8 of the sitting room with the television and sofa table 9 investigations , I understand that you and your officers 9 just in view at the bottom? 10 examined Khan’s flat, and items taken from it in the 10 A. Yes. 11 aftermath? 11 Q. And then {PH0035/34}, please, do we see there the sofa 12 A. That’s right, yes. 12 with various computer game paraphernalia? 13 Q. If we bring up a file {PH0035/14}, and if we rotate that 13 A. Yes. 14 so it ’s the right way up, is that the entry door into 14 Q. Then at {PH0035/37} a focus on the games and videos 15 his flat , a photograph taken in the aftermath ofthe 15 stacked up? 16 attack? 16 A. Yes, numerous video games. 17 A. Yes, that’s the front door. 17 Q. Then {PH0035/48}, please. Do we see here the kitchen of 18 Q. That, of course, reached the top of those stairs that we 18 the flat ? 19 looked at earlier ? 19 A. That’s right, yes. 20 A. Yes. 20 Q. Did you also examine external bins in an area near his 21 Q. And then {PH0035/20}, please. Is this a photograph of 21 flat ? 22 part of his bedroom? 22 A. Yes, that’s right . 23 A. Yes. 23 Q. May we have on screen {PH0039/1}. Is this the area 24 Q. {PH0035/21}, please. Another view of the same room. 24 where the bins were located around the back of his 25 A. Yes. 25 property?

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1 A. That’s right. 1 MR HOUGH: If you will wait there, there may be some more 2 Q. Then {PH0039/12}, please. We can see on screen torn up 2 questions. 3 packaging for knives. Is this the packaging you were 3 A. Thank you. 4 referring to earlier when you said that knife packaging 4 Questions by MR ARMSTRONG 5 was discovered at his property? 5 MR ARMSTRONG: Thank you, DCI Brown, thank you, sir. 6 A. That’s right, yes, Beauty Line is the make of the 6 I ’m still Nick Armstrong, still representing Jack’s 7 kitchen knives. 7 family. 8 Q. A four−piece knife set, as we see? 8 DCI Brown, I’m not going to keep you long, I’ve got 9 A. Yes. 9 three subjects, but before I do, can I just sum up some 10 Q. And you told us earlier about the four knives, two used 10 of the evidence that we have heard from you today, which 11 in the attack, one found in the bag in the cubicle −− 11 is we see very serious offending? 12 A. That’s right. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. −− and one found at his property? 13 Q. We see very long−held extremist attitudes? 14 A. That’s correct. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And {PH0039/24}, please. In the external bins did you 15 Q. We see a very serious custodial history? 16 also find this coloured wiring? 16 A. Correct, yes. 17 A. Yes, that’s right . 17 Q. Including deception about the custodial history , 18 Q. What’s the significance of this wiring? 18 Mr Hough has explored things like what he said about 19 A. So obviously wiring was used in the creation of the hoax 19 segregation? 20 IED. He’d taken apart various electrical items, 20 A. That’s correct, yes. 21 including the Xbox, to obtain that wiring, to have the 21 Q. And we have seen suggestions or evidence and concerns of 22 appearance of a realistic device. 22 deception and lying in order to progress in his 23 Q. Then {PH0039/29}, please. Was this further wiring found 23 sentence? 24 in the external bins? 24 A. I would agree. 25 A. Yes, that’s right , that’s the discarded parts, 25 Q. Can I just fill in a couple of points. Can Ihave −−

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1 I believe , of the Xbox that was used to create the 1 Mr Hough took you to Mr Justice Wilkie’s sentencing 2 device. 2 remarks, there is a reason for this , but can I just show 3 Q. And {PH0039/23}, please. Sorry, that’s not a necessary 3 you the Court of Appeal as well, which is {DC5001/1}. 4 reference, thank you. You can take that off screen. 4 Now, we know that Mr Justice Wilkie sentenced him to 5 So you found in the external bins a number of items 5 an indeterminate sentence, the effect of which would 6 showing the efforts undertaken to construct the IED 6 have been that he didn’t get out without the Parole 7 vest? 7 Board passing him? 8 A. Yes. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Were you able to tell anything from the way that the 9 Q. And that means that the Parole Board −− you will know 10 material had been deposited in the bins about when 10 this −− the Patrol Board needs to pass him as having a 11 different items had been put there? 11 risk that can be managed in the community? 12 A. Yes, so from my memory, the bins had only recently been 12 A. Yes. 13 emptied, within, I think the last 48 hours, I think, and 13 Q. You may know this, I suspect it won’t be in dispute, 14 they were at the top of the bin, so it had been very 14 it ’s extremely rare for the Parole Board to pass 15 recent. 15 somebody who has come from high risk category A? 16 Q. Does that, therefore, suggest, consistent with your 16 A. Highly unlikely . 17 other evidence that there had been these preparations of 17 Q. Almost non−existent, very unlikely. 18 putting together the IED vest quite soon before the 18 A. Yes. 19 attack? 19 Q. Now, the Court of Appeal took him off that, and as you 20 A. Yes. 20 explained to Mr Hough, the key reason for that was that 21 MR HOUGH: Thank you very much, DCI Brown. Those are all my 21 other defendants sentenced with him had received 22 questions. You will be, I think, returning to deal with 22 determinate sentences and the Court of Appeal thought if 23 any final matters of detail from your investigation at 23 they got determinate sentences, he should have had a 24 the end of the Inquest hearing. 24 determinate sentence? 25 A. Yes. 25 A. Yes, that’s my understanding.

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1 Q. However, the Court of Appeal recorded some of the 1 A. I would agree, yes. 2 following things. Can I see paragraph 3, please 2 Q. Thank you. Now, the reason why I −− you can take that 3 {DC5001/2}. So you see five lines up from the bottom: 3 down again, the Court of Appeal decision down again. 4 ”At some time, the accused each became a committed 4 The reason why I asked you about the EDL, the English 5 Islamic fundamentalist, believing in jihad , that is to 5 Defence League, is that Mr Khan, I think you know, had 6 say, they wished to support and commit acts of terrorism 6 over many years in prison talked to other people in the 7 in furtherance of their religious beliefs .” 7 Prison Service, and we’ll look at that, at little bit of 8 A. Yes. 8 that in a moment, about having had a friend killed by 9 Q. Can I see paragraph 13 {DC5001/4}, fourth line down: 9 the EDL in a racist attack? 10 ”The Stoke group [and that’s a group of which 10 A. Yes, that’s right . 11 Mr Khan was a part] were to fund the camp and recruit 11 Q. So he says several times, we’ ll go to it in a moment, 12 men for it: Khan expected only victory, martyrdom or 12 that one of the reasons why he did what he did, or 13 imprisonment.” 13 talked about his offending and his background, was that 14 A. Yes. 14 he had had a friend killed by the English Defence 15 Q. That’s what he had in mind? 15 League? 16 A. That’s correct. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Paragraph 17, one of the issues in this was that 17 Q. I think you have investigated that, or your team has 18 Mr Khan, unlike the London or the Cardiff defendants, 18 investigated that? 19 his intention was not to attack at the moment but to 19 A. As far as we can do, yes. So we believe that there is 20 train more in Pakistan and to get better at terrorism? 20 a murder that took place, from the evidence we were able 21 A. Yes. 21 to recover, and it’s mainly through searching the media. 22 Q. And that’s recorded in paragraph 17 {DC5001/5}, can you 22 We weren’t able to identify that that was actually 23 see one of the other co−defendants says: 23 an associate of Mr Khan, or whether that was actually 24 ”Shahjahan says to Khan and Hussain that ’you guys 24 racially motivated. 25 probably will be the next level flipping learners ’, 25 Q. So there is , so far as the police are concerned, having

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1 ’expert of experts’ ... ” 1 looked at this −− there may have been a murder; can you 2 And I flag that because that goes to Mr Khan’s 2 give us any circumstances about the murder? 3 interest in status, doesn’t it ? 3 A. I can’t do at the minute but I can find out for you if 4 A. Yes, absolutely. 4 you need to. 5 Q. Then finally, paragraph 19 at the bottom there, oneof 5 Q. But there is no evidence that that’s a friend of 6 the things here that Mr Khan was engaged with was how to 6 Mr Khan’s? 7 construct a pipe bomb, and if you go over the top of 7 A. No evidence that we’ve found, no. 8 there to paragraph −− the next bit, he was interested in 8 Q. And no evidence that it was a racist attack in the way 9 the possibility of using the device against the English 9 that he described? 10 Defence League. 10 A. Not that I’m aware of, no, but as I say, I can find out 11 Now, I want to flag that, because I want to come 11 more details for you if you wish. 12 back to it in a moment, but before I do, one of the 12 Q. Thank you. Your team also took statements from his 13 factors of this , DCI Brown, is Mr Khan at this stage is 13 family, didn’t you, in the preparation of this case? 14 only 19 years old? 14 A. That’s right, yes. 15 A. That’s right. 15 Q. And I think at least four of his brothers plus his 16 Q. He has done very little with his life . He has got very 16 mother gave witness statements. 17 little in the way of education; he did his GCSEs in 17 A. That’s correct, yes. 18 prison; yes? 18 Q. We’ll hear from one of them tomorrow. It’s fair to say, 19 A. Yes. 19 isn ’t it , that none of them mention that attack or 20 Q. And he has done very little in the way of employment. 20 anything like that attack as being a key event that they 21 We’ll hear a little bit about that, but there’s almost 21 remember? 22 nothing? 22 A. No, none. 23 A. Yes. 23 Q. So it may be, I just put it to you, it may be that that 24 Q. So essentially , offending is all he has to fulfil his 24 event that he describes didn’t happen? 25 status−seeking? 25 A. It ’s quite possible .

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1 Q. It is quite possible that it didn’t happen. 1 a facility for the Parole Board to look at somebody like 2 Now, I just want to flag that, because if we can 2 Mr Khan, even on a determinate sentence, because he 3 just look at the extent to which that formed part of his 3 could get recalled? 4 narrative , can we just go to, for example, {DC6377/3}, 4 A. He could be recalled, yes. 5 yes, so in the first paragraph of that, the third line , 5 Q. Now, I just want to establish that, because he goes out 6 he is talking here, and this is one of his prison 6 on licence , he is then subject to conditions. 7 documents: 7 A. Yes. 8 ”He explained that his friend being killed by 8 Q. If he breaches those conditions, the Probation Service 9 a member of the EDL, and the raid on his house by the 9 can activate a recall process, and we’ll deal with this 10 police ... led to a change in his thought process... 10 with Mr Skelton, but just in general terms; yes? 11 [ this had] had a significant knock on to his life ... as 11 A. Yes, I ’m familiar with recalls . 12 a result he lost his job, could not find other work...” 12 Q. And if they recall him, it can go to the Parole Board, 13 So he is attributing this as a very significant 13 if the recall is opposed? 14 event? 14 A. Yes. 15 A. That is right . 15 Q. Now I just want to ask you about that, because if that 16 Q. Can I just see also a witness statement from his 16 happens, and we’ll establish this elsewhere, but just 17 internal probation officer , Jo Boulton who we will hear 17 assume this for the moment, I don’t think there will be 18 from later in the week, {WS5055/3} and then paragraph 14 18 any dispute about it −− 19 in that, please, where we have here: 19 A. Mm. 20 ”This reading gave me a good idea of Usman’s 20 Q. −− if that happens and the Parole Board get to look at 21 offences but I knew little about his life before that. 21 his case in the round, they’ ll look at the circumstances 22 I remember having a conversation with him about one of 22 of the recall , but they will also look at his risk in 23 his friends , who he said had been beaten to death by the 23 the round? 24 English Defence League... he felt that the police had 24 A. Yes. 25 done nothing about it. He spoke about racism he had 25 Q. If I ’m right about that, and just for the moment assume

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1 experienced in the community.” 1 that I am, that would mean that Mr Khan would have 2 Again, a significant part of his narrative about how 2 absolutely every reason in the world from the moment of 3 he came to be who he was? 3 his release to avoid a recall because that will bring 4 A. That’s right, yes. 4 Parole Board scrutiny that would not otherwise have 5 Q. Now we know, don’t we, that Mr Khan has a tendency to 5 happened and had not yet happened? 6 say things that are not true and then put them as part 6 A. Yes, that’s right , and I think he mentioned that in 7 of his narrative? 7 a piece of the evidence we discussed today. 8 A. Absolutely. 8 Q. He did, absolutely right . Which means that anything 9 Q. That that narrative includes: I am a victim, things have 9 like not turning up to appointments or, indeed, things 10 happened to me? 10 like watching his associations because associations are 11 A. Yes. 11 the kind of thing that in counter−terrorism cases are 12 Q. And we also know that one of Mr Khan’s features and one 12 watched? 13 of the things that tends to happen in extremism cases is 13 A. Yes. 14 distorted thinking? 14 Q. He would want to be very careful about that and he would 15 A. Absolutely. 15 want to be cleaner than clean, wouldn’t he? 16 Q. And this may, therefore, be an example of pretty 16 A. I would say so, yes. 17 significant distorted thinking? 17 Q. Particularly given, can we just finally pull up 18 A. I think likely , yes. 18 {DC5415/1}, this is the release date notification for 19 Q. Thank you very much. Now, one other matter, I just want 19 Mr Khan, which he would have been handed when he was 20 to establish this : we’ve talked about the Parole Board 20 being released, or around the time that he was released. 21 not looking at this case at release stage? 21 This is dated 14 December 2018, and if we can just see 22 A. Yes. 22 the second half of this document, these are the dates. 23 Q. He went straight out? 23 Now, what we see here is a sentence expiry date, we 24 A. Yes. 24 see a conditional release date. Now, in fact his 25 Q. Now, I just want to establish that. There is, however, 25 conditional release date is 26 December 2018; he is

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1 released on the 24th, I assume because otherwise it is 1 tomorrow and Thursday, and indeed Friday morning, we’ve 2 Boxing Day and so they’ve dropped him out on Christmas 2 got quite a busy time, so it ’s probably no bad thing 3 Eve rather than on Boxing Day. We can ignore home 3 that we’ve given the jury a slightly shorter day today. 4 detention curfew, but his sentence and licence expiry 4 They’ve taken on quite a lot of detail . I ’m conscious 5 date are 27 December 2031. 5 that through the witnesses we’re going to hear from the 6 A. Yes. 6 next few days, we’re going to go back over this material 7 Q. So if he had been recalled and the Parole Board had 7 and look at the detail with them, but I think setting it 8 looked at him and said: you’re still a risk , mate, he’s 8 out in the way that you have, if I might say so, has 9 potentially in for another 12 years? 9 been very helpful . 10 A. Potentially . I ’m not an expert in this area. 10 One of the matters I just raise with you, is that it 11 Q. I know. 11 may be that we perhaps also give the jury a list of, for 12 A. I ’m probably not the best person to −− 12 example, the MAPPA meeting dates just so they’ve got 13 Q. It would need to be re−looked at, probably around 13 that framework to consider things, but we’ll look at 14 annually or bi−annually? 14 that perhaps once we get into the detail and see what 15 A. Yes. It ’s probably unlikely he would have had it 15 may assist the jury best. 16 extended for the full duration, but I ’m not really the 16 MR HOUGH: Yes, we’ll give continuing thought, along with 17 person to answer that question. But yes, I agree with 17 interested persons, to what sorts of documents might 18 you. 18 assist the jury . I ’m keen not to swamp them with 19 JUDGE LUCRAFT: It might also, of course, depend on why 19 chronologies or gists , both because they may be 20 he has been recalled, Mr Armstrong, because if, for 20 difficult to arrive at on an agreed basis quickly, and 21 example, there had been the commission of an offence 21 also because the jury may find themselves distracted 22 that led to the recall , that would affect the dates? 22 from the evidence they are in fact hearing, and which of 23 MR ARMSTRONG: Indeed. There are all those possibilities. 23 course you will be summing−up to them, but we’ll give 24 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Yes. 24 thought to any short documents which can be used to 25 MR ARMSTRONG: But you can see why he would be fearful of 25 assist them.

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1 recall ? 1 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Thank you. I’ll rise. 2 A. Yes. 2 (3.18 pm) 3 MR ARMSTRONG: Thank you. Thank you, DCI Brown. 3 (The court adjourned until 10.00 am on 4 A. Thank you, sir. 4 Wednesday, 28 April 2021) 5 JUDGE LUCRAFT: I don’t know if there are any other 5 6 questions for DCI Brown. If there aren’t, that might be 6 7 a good stage for us to take our break, Mr Hough. 7 8 MR HOUGH: Sir, I think that’s −− if there aren’t any more 8 9 questions for him, that is the end of our evidence for 9 10 today. 10 11 JUDGE LUCRAFT: Right. It looks as if we’re going to finish 11 12 a little bit early for today. 12 13 MR HOUGH: Yes. 13 14 JUDGE LUCRAFT: That’s absolutely fine. 14 15 MR HOUGH: I fear we may not achieve the same feat for the 15 16 coming core witness. 16 17 JUDGE LUCRAFT: We did a bit of extra overtime last week, 17 18 members of the jury, so there will be the odd ebb and 18 19 flow with timing. So what we will do is we willcall 19 20 a pause there and we will sit again tomorrow morning, 20 21 please, at 10 o’clock. Thank you very much. 21 22 (In the absence of the jury) 22 23 JUDGE LUCRAFT: DCI Brown, you are able to stand down if you 23 24 wish to. 24 25 Mr Hough, looking at the timetable, in fact for 25

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113:3 138:4 115:21 117:3 118:3,12 anywhere (1) 101:15 assessed (4) 12:5 26:3 54:24 128:10 132:24 138:12 25:18 30:5,21 34:20 50:10 brief (2) 69:11 103:4 142:8,15 144:2,8 146:14 119:1,3 124:15,19 apart (1) 133:20 65:9 147:6 56:3 63:3 68:21,21 88:9,23 briefly (4) 53:16 75:6 92:13 abu (1) 25:19 128:10,21 139:3,3 142:2 apologies (1) 67:13 assessing (1) 53:21 background (2) 1:21 139:13 89:4 90:2 92:17 108:18 122:8 academic (1) 68:18 146:20 apparent (1) 122:21 assessment (10) 4:22,22 bad (1) 147:2 112:10 113:21 116:14 brindley (1) 5:9 accept (1) 15:14 against (4) 11:18 44:20 apparently (6) 12:19 43:1 25:9 32:13 33:8 53:5 bag (10) 113:20,22,24 119:3,19,20 120:5,13 bring (8) 4:3 16:11 86:23 acceptable (2) 41:25 42:15 72:15 138:9 48:25 64:11 66:6 127:10 65:10,25 66:5 72:4 114:13 117:20 126:24 129:1 131:18 134:1 139:19 94:18 125:19 129:15 accepted (5) 7:13 13:22 age (4) 3:15,16 5:5,22 appeal (15) assessor (3) 37:20,25 54:22 127:6 129:20 131:4 133:11 believed (8) 24:8 34:15 60:4 130:13 144:3 17:3,9 121:8 agencies (9) 55:22,25 56:12 18:5,5,7,8,17,19,23 assist (6) 87:22 88:13 109:14 balconies (1) 23:17 63:18 66:24 80:15 85:10 bringing (1) 55:22 accepting (1) 7:14 58:17 59:2 61:6 76:12 19:12,13 25:14 147:15,18,25 bandage (3) 131:13,14 132:5 122:18 broken (2) 24:3 25:23 access (10) 22:9 74:4 78:21 92:15 96:10 136:3,19,22 137:1 139:3 assistant (1) 127:10 bank (6) 78:23 79:20 81:7 believing (1) 137:5 brother (1) 104:8 82:13,17 94:13,20 agency (1) 80:4 appear (2) 91:13 97:22 assisted (3) 88:18,24 92:18 82:24 123:15 125:6 belmarsh (5) 19:21,23 22:3 brothers (1) 140:15 109:11,13,15 ago (1) 43:2 appearance (1) 133:22 assisting (1) 101:7 banned (1) 8:3 25:6 29:11 brought (1) 9:17 accessing (1) 78:23 agree (4) 52:18 135:24 139:1 appeared (2) 10:8 44:4 associate (2) 5:24 139:23 barbers (5) 107:24,25 belonging (1) 53:25 brown (17) 1:7,9,15 3:1 accommodation (2) 81:14 145:17 appearing (1) 11:19 associated (2) 8:4 105:22 115:7,11 120:18 below (2) 56:25 95:25 47:16 72:11 73:1 102:18 90:25 agreed (3) 16:19,20 147:20 appears (6) 7:12 44:17 50:4 associates (2) 96:25 110:1 base (4) 28:15 29:22 belt (2) 116:16 119:4 113:15 134:21 135:5,8 accompanied (1) 87:14 agreement (1) 91:20 57:7 59:16 127:6 associating (1) 11:19 116:22,23 belts (1) 61:15 138:13 146:3,6,23 149:4 accompany (1) 78:20 ah (1) 30:8 appendix (1) 55:5 association (2) 37:16 59:12 baseball (1) 112:22 bemadam (1) 1:17 brusque (1) 103:4 according (3) 22:8 95:21 aint (1) 9:16 application (2) 50:3,13 associations (2) 144:10,10 based (9) 7:7 13:6 20:15 benefit (3) 64:25 70:24 72:2 brusthom (2) 61:2,9 114:20 akbar (1) 22:20 applications (1) 94:17 assume (5) 5:19 121:3 43:22 75:14 109:24 111:15 benefits (2) 82:19,19 build (3) 15:12,25 63:3 account (5) 3:17 78:23 alawlaki (1) 6:23 applied (2) 86:21 90:13 143:17,25 145:1 117:22 118:10 beside (1) 15:25 built (1) 6:3 79:21 81:7 82:24 albeit (5) 58:20 62:16 76:22 apply (1) 88:22 atm (5) 114:23 122:5 124:15 basic (3) 36:10,11 80:15 best (2) 145:12 147:15 bulky (1) 130:5 accounted (1) 120:22 113:3 119:24 applying (1) 101:15 128:14,17 basically (1) 31:19 better (3) 40:9 47:15 137:20 bullying (3) 36:8 46:4 59:14 accurate (2) 72:17,18 allah (1) 22:20 appointment (1) 101:6 attached (1) 99:23 basis (10) 9:2 15:18,23 between (12) 14:2,14 23:16 bundle (5) 113:9 114:9 accused (1) 137:4 allege (1) 16:20 appointments (1) 144:9 attack (48) 1:18,22 7:15,19 17:2,9 25:13 76:12 90:12 47:4 60:1 74:8 84:20 85:25 117:2,14 121:23 achieve (4) 42:24 68:17 allowed (6) 19:12 78:21 appreciate (1) 2:2 16:22 22:19 30:24 31:2 94:23 147:20 104:23 105:10 112:16 bursary (1) 90:13 99:16 146:15 86:1,11 99:22 110:10 apprehensive (2) 106:15 36:22 45:5,6 61:10,12 bbc (1) 9:12 127:12 busy (1) 147:2 achieved (1) 51:15 alm (4) 6:25 7:24 9:24 10:9 107:6 95:13 100:18 102:4,21 bear (1) 17:10 biannually (1) 145:14 buying (1) 108:14 acquire (1) 82:11 almost (6) 24:3 46:15 76:25 approach (2) 40:11 62:25 103:17 107:13,16 109:17 beard (1) 94:2 big (3) 11:13 130:7,7 buzzer (1) 93:22 across (3) 71:8 100:21 90:12 136:17 138:21 appropriate (2) 81:18 89:10 111:14,16 112:3,7 113:6 beards (1) 115:12 biggest (1) 79:13 C 115:16 almuhajiroun (2) 6:25 8:2 approval (2) 18:2,24 114:1,16,18 116:17 bearing (1) 78:25 bill (1) 108:16 acting (2) 76:23,24 along (6) 13:10 46:1 72:20 approved (16) 57:24 58:11 117:19,22 118:25 119:13 beaten (1) 141:23 bin (1) 134:14 c (4) 51:3 56:24 59:18 63:13 actions (6) 40:3 107:14 122:2 128:21 147:16 73:21 74:8,10,13,18 120:7 121:5 125:17 127:20 beatings (1) 48:5 bins (7) 132:20,24 133:15,24 calendar (1) 82:22 111:20,23,25 112:5 alqaeda (1) 13:24 75:15,18 80:7 81:2,19 129:6 130:16 131:6 133:11 beauty (1) 133:6 134:5,10,12 call (12) 102:23 103:3 activate (1) 143:9 already (12) 1:11 15:25 85:11,16 87:12 90:22 134:19 137:19 139:9 became (3) 11:13 12:20 birth (1) 3:3 105:10 108:10,11 actively (1) 25:1 20:21 53:3 61:11 70:20 april (10) 1:1 32:12 45:10 140:8,19,20 137:4 bit (9) 3:23,24 73:4 106:15 115:1,4,6 122:19,20 activities (5) 7:20 65:20 84:2,4 87:4 98:3 116:10 53:11 84:20 85:9 90:14,15 attacked (3) 30:20 43:6 become (3) 6:8 14:3 50:12 138:8,21 139:7 146:12,17 124:23 146:19 78:24 79:20 82:11 131:19 97:23 148:4 61:14 becoming (4) 42:3 58:23 black (6) 8:15 93:25 98:24 called (24) 4:22 5:8 8:1 activity (6) 8:18,20 12:15 also (60) 2:13 4:1 5:21 6:1 aq (1) 14:16 attacking (2) 4:9 7:9 64:13 110:22 105:20 106:3 116:22 13:23 25:8 30:17 33:23 16:18 26:7,9 9:24 14:23 18:3 21:12 arabian (1) 13:24 attackplanning (1) 112:1 bed (1) 93:25 blade (2) 31:9,11 36:10 38:1 40:20 55:15 acts (3) 7:4 14:23 137:6 24:12 30:21 42:23 45:19 aragorn (3) 8:24 11:6 12:11 attacks (1) 89:13 bedroom (2) 130:22 131:21 blades (1) 61:16 58:13 63:13 68:8 75:25 actually (13) 4:24 12:2 28:3 47:13 48:4 52:19 53:4 area (9) 23:11 43:7 58:11 attempt (1) 25:8 bedside (1) 131:9 blue (3) 48:16,20 116:4 78:15 82:4 83:10 88:6 32:4 47:11 76:21 88:21 54:25 60:7 63:25 70:1,4 77:9 96:22 119:14 attempted (4) 30:13 49:5 before (47) 12:5 17:3,20 board (16) 17:22,22 92:22 101:11 107:23,24 92:18 95:5 126:16 132:2 75:3 76:16 77:8,20 82:11 132:20,23 145:10 61:17,18 18:21 19:22,25 20:3,4 18:2,16,22,24 122:15 139:22,23 83:18 88:1,5 90:20 92:25 areas (1) 65:14 attend (4) 81:13 83:1 97:10 27:2,6 35:11 41:16 43:24 136:7,9,10,14 142:20 calling (2) 7:24 78:6 acutely (1) 47:11 94:16,19 97:1 103:19 arent (2) 146:6,8 101:6 54:2 59:18 60:13 62:23 143:1,12,20 144:4 145:7 calum (1) 97:17 add (1) 73:4 106:2,8,13,14 107:9,23 argumentative (1) 42:3 attendance (5) 84:7 87:12 67:1,14 70:9,18 80:9 95:12 boarding (1) 122:25 cambridge (10) 66:11 added (1) 55:4 108:17 117:12 118:9 armistice (1) 22:24 90:13 95:1 107:22 100:17 102:20 107:13,16 bodily (1) 118:13 81:12,23 83:1 90:12 addition (1) 9:23 119:16 120:10,18 122:8 armstrong (10) 81:12 83:3 attended (5) 5:3 83:25 84:9 109:16 110:1 112:2,3,7 body (1) 118:20 97:11,14,21 99:1,2 address (24) 9:2 11:4,10 129:4 131:16,21 132:20 135:4,5,6 145:20,23,25 87:5 93:19 113:16 114:16 115:16 boiling (1) 18:17 came (5) 68:25 108:21 118:3 14:14 24:6,7,8,9,10 51:22 133:16 140:12 141:16 146:3 149:6 attending (5) 84:15 95:3 120:7 121:5 122:6 124:15 bold (1) 67:13 123:20 142:3 74:8 75:8 93:19,20 96:7 142:12 143:22 145:19 around (26) 3:25 6:5 10:25 101:1 106:16 113:18 125:17,20 127:20 131:6 bomb (2) 14:15 138:7 camp (2) 17:5 137:11 98:22 103:16,22 111:14 147:11,21 11:7 16:14 23:17 32:12 attends (1) 63:14 134:18 135:9 138:12 bones (1) 73:4 camping (1) 115:20 112:16 116:1 117:4,16 although (4) 53:2 82:22 91:8 46:1 49:9 50:17 52:14 attention (1) 8:18 141:21 booked (1) 121:19 cancelled (1) 122:17 121:15 111:10 58:16,20 62:17 85:23 attitude (1) 38:20 befriending (1) 41:11 boots (5) 108:14 116:21,24 cannabis (1) 85:9 addressed (1) 31:21 aluminium (1) 27:22 94:24 98:25 111:4 112:11 attitudes (4) 11:12 42:5,22 began (5) 5:23 6:4 10:14 131:4,5 cannot (1) 94:15 addressing (1) 51:15 alumni (1) 106:15 117:25 120:14 122:13 135:13 50:8 111:16 born (2) 3:4 9:14 cant (5) 6:14 67:10 113:5 adebolajo (3) 45:2,2,4 always (2) 96:17,19 131:13 132:24 144:20 attract (1) 8:18 begin (2) 73:17 83:6 both (6) 3:6 7:2 77:13 104:6 130:3 140:3 adjourned (1) 148:3 amended (1) 85:23 145:13 attracted (1) 6:18 beginning (4) 3:1 22:2 90:14 129:10 147:19 cap (1) 112:22 adjournment (1) 102:14 among (1) 21:9 arrange (1) 81:14 attributing (1) 141:13 91:21 bottle (1) 129:20 capability (3) 80:13,14,16 adjudications (3) 42:16,19 amongst (2) 45:23 59:17 arranged (1) 124:23 audiovisual (1) 125:13 begins (1) 90:10 bottles (4) 28:1 131:23,25 capacity (2) 76:24 88:16 49:18 amount (2) 120:11,12 arrangement (1) 111:6 august (16) 29:3 40:15 48:24 begun (1) 6:18 132:2 capital (1) 67:13 adjust (1) 54:13 amounts (1) 45:19 arrangements (5) 55:16 83:2 49:4 60:12,17,24,25 behalf (1) 7:23 bottom (21) 5:2 15:19 19:18 capture (1) 103:25 admitted (1) 31:2 andor (1) 59:14 100:10 102:23 113:17 78:11,12 79:3 84:21 89:23 behave (1) 51:4 24:19 29:4 32:17 36:17 captures (1) 128:24 advance (2) 40:23 55:19 andrew (1) 14:11 arrested (4) 7:11 13:2 90:7 91:4 111:7 behaving (3) 24:23 48:13 37:25 42:13 44:8 51:13 car (1) 87:16 advertised (1) 94:16 angry (4) 29:14 45:24 52:19 14:20,21 authorise (1) 107:21 57:11 53:19,20 73:16 80:25 90:9 card (7) 86:21,22 87:1 advised (2) 65:8 80:8 68:24 arrests (2) 13:1 14:7 authority (3) 54:10 80:4 behaviour (26) 21:13 23:20 114:12 131:11 132:9 137:3 120:23 121:1 123:13,15 advisory (3) 64:18 65:8 66:4 anhydrol (1) 27:21 arrival (3) 23:4 40:15 122:4 92:10 26:23 28:20,22 29:2 33:12 138:5 cardiff (3) 13:6,9 137:18 affairs (1) 45:19 anjem (5) 6:24 7:23 9:20,23 arrive (2) 124:8 147:20 av0021 (1) 125:19 34:8 39:25 40:2 42:15,20 bought (4) 112:17 121:5 career (1) 68:18 affect (1) 145:22 11:20 arrived (2) 98:14 124:14 av0022 (1) 129:15 51:23 54:13 56:20 123:12 131:6 careful (1) 144:14 after (28) 18:23 23:4,25 24:3 annually (1) 145:14 arriving (1) 106:19 available (2) 5:21 16:10 58:16,22,24 59:4 60:21 boulton (5) 61:24 62:3,17 carefully (1) 57:5

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

carried (7) 38:9 52:2 53:6 cleaner (1) 144:15 58:24 64:23 86:7 cooperate (1) 56:1 damaging (2) 24:4,13 dc64232 (1) 56:22 68:14 69:7,9 78:8 98:9,22 118:21 126:1 cleanliness (2) 115:13 118:13 concerns (6) 11:7 34:23 core (2) 116:22 146:16 dan (3) 1:6,9 149:4 dc6502 (1) 1:25 144:21,25 145:5 carry (2) 93:11,20 clear (7) 6:7 52:20 54:18 69:20 81:5 101:3 135:21 corner (1) 131:12 dangerous (2) 19:14 20:12 dc650210 (1) 19:18 deception (2) 135:17,22 carrying (1) 129:20 89:20 111:17 112:25 conclude (2) 54:22 64:22 correct (77) 8:6 10:16 dark (2) 94:5 105:19 dc65024 (1) 8:12 deceptive (1) 59:4 cases (4) 16:5 52:23 142:13 118:21 concluded (1) 53:19 14:6,17 15:8 18:3,25 19:16 data (7) 95:21 96:4,12 dc65025 (1) 9:6 deceptively (1) 57:11 144:11 clearly (1) 128:11 concludes (1) 51:14 20:13 36:23 37:6 38:3 101:16 110:4 119:15 dc65031029 (1) 29:18 decided (5) 13:19 32:23 caseworker (1) 83:16 cleric (1) 6:23 conclusion (1) 120:9 43:13 44:17 51:16 55:6 121:24 dc65031054 (1) 27:6 50:11 82:25 98:3 cash (16) 82:15 114:22,24 climbing (1) 93:23 conclusions (1) 54:19 56:21 57:18,25 58:14 59:5 database (1) 71:22 dc65031055 (1) 27:5 decision (5) 12:6 42:11 115:6 117:11 clingfilm (2) 131:11,13 conditional (2) 144:24,25 60:23 61:5,8,21 62:14 64:2 date (12) 3:2 27:3,7 66:2 dc65031056 (1) 26:20 60:17,19 139:3 120:11,11,15,16,21 clip (2) 128:1,4 conditions (18) 66:3,8 68:13 69:22 107:9 112:8 113:6 dc65031066 (2) 27:1,12 declined (4) 25:12 44:12,18 121:2,3,12 122:5 123:12 clips (4) 125:15,21 129:5,9 73:11,12,14,17 74:18,25 70:10,17 71:13 74:5 77:12 144:18,23,24,25 145:5 dc65031081 (1) 26:11 123:15 124:15 close (2) 88:15 96:21 75:9,14 76:17,25 77:11 78:12 81:6 82:9 85:21 dated (2) 27:13 144:21 dc65031122 (1) 41:5 decorating (1) 101:25 catch (2) 97:16 121:21 closed (1) 82:8 85:23 86:7 99:18 105:6 86:11,21 87:3,13 89:4,15 dates (3) 144:22 145:22 dc65031228 (1) 40:14 dedication (1) 64:6 categorised (2) 20:8 24:17 closer (1) 9:18 109:20 143:6,8 90:2 91:22 92:6 94:25 147:12 dc65031251 (1) 39:2 deduced (1) 124:3 category (27) 20:8,11,14,23 clothing (2) 23:6 129:11 conduct (9) 13:19 14:22 103:22,23 104:3,9,20 dawah (5) 7:24 8:7,8 13:18 dc65031252 (1) 39:5 deemed (1) 89:10 38:10,22 41:22 42:1,8,9 coach (3) 83:19 92:23 15:11 19:10 38:17 47:19 105:14 107:11 114:2,14 70:11 dc6503129 (1) 23:25 defendants (8) 15:21,22 49:10,16 51:6,11,13 53:6 107:10 51:3 58:18 104:19 117:1 119:8 120:25 dawes (1) 3:18 dc6503130 (1) 24:2 16:13,21 19:14,15 136:21 60:13,18 61:22 62:15,16 cobridge (2) 8:1 9:15 conducted (2) 11:9 23:20 123:1,14 125:8 126:4,9 dawn (1) 101:6 dc65031367 (1) 36:16 137:18 64:16,16,25 65:4,5 136:15 codefendant (1) 12:21 conference (3) 9:9,10,21 127:11,14 128:6,20 131:7 day (39) 9:9 22:24 31:7 dc65031441 (1) 35:12 definite (1) 34:14 caught (1) 30:23 codefendants (3) 70:2 110:2 confidence (1) 37:21 133:14 135:16,20 137:16 50:19,20 74:23 75:1 86:12 dc65031457 (1) 35:22 deliberately (2) 24:23 42:23 cause (2) 14:25 40:24 137:23 confident (1) 113:5 140:17 95:22 98:7 101:16,18 dc65031488 (1) 36:6 delighted (1) 106:4 causing (2) 47:5 94:12 cold (2) 95:7,19 confine (1) 74:7 correctly (1) 106:24 103:22 104:14,21,24 dc65031564 (1) 35:1 delivered (1) 81:24 caution (1) 7:14 colleague (1) 96:6 confirm (3) 37:4 72:12,16 cost (1) 116:8 105:10,16 106:9 107:13,16 dc65031566 (1) 35:6 delivers (1) 83:12 cctv (13) 7:8 43:23 98:14 colleagues (1) 97:13 confirmed (5) 5:20 96:4 couldnt (7) 3:25 4:1 108:7 112:2,3 113:16 dc65031697 (1) 34:10 demeanour (1) 114:4 103:15,24 104:8 106:19 collected (1) 87:15 97:19 101:2 105:20 79:12,14 82:16 109:12,13 114:7,16,20 115:1,19 dc6503171 (1) 23:9 demonstrate (2) 34:7 60:21 112:20 114:11 119:6 colloquially (1) 58:12 connect (1) 87:20 counsel (1) 2:19 120:7 121:5,11 127:20 dc65031840 (1) 62:22 demonstrating (1) 24:14 121:18 122:24 128:24 coloured (1) 133:16 connected (2) 9:23 123:16 count (1) 15:23 129:6 131:6 145:2,3 147:3 dc65031855 (1) 61:1 department (5) 55:7 88:11 ceased (2) 79:7 111:6 combating (1) 68:18 connection (1) 66:10 counter (6) 125:23 126:22 days (10) 20:4 48:7 68:25 dc65031876 (2) 59:21,23 93:1 105:11 109:6 cechaviciute (2) 53:8,12 come (10) 3:5 13:18 38:14 conscious (1) 147:4 127:9,17,17 129:16 72:25 100:9,17,17 107:5 dc65031893 (1) 59:10 depend (1) 145:19 cell (12) 24:4,4,21 27:24 61:9 76:20 96:21 100:21 consequence (1) 98:11 counterterrorism (5) 57:1,22 112:7 147:6 dc65031959 (1) 50:25 deposited (1) 134:10 30:5,20,25 31:8,10 43:7,23 115:16 136:15 138:11 consider (4) 110:4 112:5 71:15 115:15 144:11 dc50003 (1) 13:15 dc65031963 (1) 50:17 deradicalisation (2) 26:2 45:10 comes (1) 128:10 121:4 147:13 counterterrorist (1) 11:5 dc50005 (2) 13:25 15:18 dc65032000 (1) 49:3 77:6 cells (3) 24:13 31:22 32:1 comfortable (2) 61:4 96:12 consideration (2) 64:21 98:1 country (1) 7:4 dc50011 (1) 136:3 dc65032002 (1) 47:21 dernier (1) 113:20 centrally (1) 40:6 coming (8) 72:25 103:20,25 considered (11) 17:21 41:25 couple (4) 43:4 62:23 94:10 dc50012 (1) 137:3 dc65032021 (1) 48:23 describe (3) 49:20 105:2 centre (3) 83:22 92:1 106:18 107:5 126:10,18 129:22 51:24 52:14 62:3 64:18 135:25 dc50014 (1) 137:9 dc65032043 (1) 48:7 108:23 centres (1) 8:10 146:16 81:25 87:11 88:20 89:7 course (35) 2:6,8,18 11:17 dc50015 (1) 137:22 dc65032046 (1) 46:6 described (14) 3:22,23 26:22 ceremony (1) 10:19 commence (1) 114:1 110:14 17:5 23:1 24:25 26:2 dc5097111 (1) 14:9 dc65032050 (1) 45:22 37:1 47:23 49:1 55:6 67:6 certain (5) 36:13 52:15 56:1 commenced (1) 12:10 consistent (12) 21:10 110:7 50:8,15 59:2 64:8 72:5 dc51941 (1) 73:13 dc65032052 (1) 46:1 68:24 72:3 103:19 111:2 111:15,19 comments (6) 52:10,17,18 112:1 118:15,17 119:23 87:1 88:17,22 89:18 dc51942 (1) 73:19 dc65032125 (1) 45:8 119:10 140:9 certificate (1) 101:13 53:3 55:3,4 120:12,15,19 121:11 90:14,15,17 97:23 100:1 dc52241 (1) 86:23 dc65032162 (1) 44:24 describes (1) 140:24 cetera (1) 12:1 commission (1) 145:21 126:17 134:16 101:25 102:1 104:17 dc52561 (1) 93:14 dc65032165 (1) 43:17 description (1) 63:23 cex (1) 94:7 commit (5) 7:4 17:6 54:24 consistently (1) 85:14 106:13 107:21 110:12 dc52562 (1) 94:3 dc65032167 (1) 43:21 designed (1) 54:19 challenge (1) 34:2 73:18 137:6 console (1) 82:12 111:10 123:6 127:5 dc52582 (1) 75:6 dc65032180 (1) 44:7 desire (2) 39:10 69:24 challenged (2) 45:17 48:9 committed (2) 8:5 137:4 conspired (1) 17:4 130:8,18 145:19 147:23 dc53143 (1) 91:19 dc65032242 (1) 63:8 despite (1) 51:25 challenging (8) 28:20 common (5) 7:2 48:22 conspiring (1) 14:25 courses (1) 83:12 dc53201 (1) 32:11 dc65032243 (1) 63:20 despondent (2) 101:12,20 29:2,21 31:19 39:25 49:22 115:12 118:12,15 construct (3) 14:15 134:6 covering (1) 118:5 dc532013 (1) 32:16 dc6503297 (1) 22:22 detail (16) 2:4 20:21 33:15 65:22 68:22 commonplace (1) 104:13 138:7 create (3) 28:4 131:14 134:1 dc532014 (1) 33:6 dc6503675 (1) 24:19 35:6 37:18 53:17 55:9 change (6) 26:2,6 39:25 communicated (3) 61:6 68:2 construction (6) 86:22,25 creation (3) 27:23 112:10 dc53211 (1) 37:4 dc6503742 (1) 22:15 67:20 76:7 89:18 123:11 78:10 96:13 141:10 101:10 87:1 88:20,23 100:14 133:19 dc53215 (1) 37:13 dc6503743 (1) 22:17 125:4 134:23 147:4,7,14 changed (5) 29:11 38:20 communicating (1) 83:23 contact (16) 4:4 7:6 creative (1) 87:22 dc53217 (1) 37:7 dc6503822 (1) 22:4 details (4) 13:13 43:21 92:16 57:10 79:1,2 communication (1) 25:21 10:17,22 11:1 60:9 68:7 credit (1) 82:21 dc53219 (1) 37:19 dc6503823 (1) 22:7 140:11 changes (2) 27:3 75:8 communications (6) 69:14 69:12 70:1,4 88:5 90:11 crediting (1) 43:1 dc53221 (1) 53:12 dc6503866 (1) 23:2 detected (1) 62:18 chaplain (3) 30:21,23 31:3 92:25 101:19 107:15,17 97:20 99:25 100:10 109:25 crepe (2) 131:14 132:5 dc532232 (1) 53:18 dc6503867 (1) 23:3 detention (1) 145:4 chaplaincy (1) 62:11 109:2 contacted (1) 107:19 crept (1) 56:25 dc532233 (1) 54:5 dc6503950 (1) 29:25 determinate (6) 17:16 18:10 charges (1) 15:15 community (10) 8:23 9:15 contacting (1) 83:18 crew (1) 94:2 dc532249 (1) 55:2 dc6503964 (1) 31:6 136:22,23,24 143:2 charity (1) 83:12 10:16 54:14 65:1,11 75:23 contacts (1) 88:15 crilly (1) 125:7 dc53361 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(2) 51:3 56:19 chloride (1) 27:22 compiled (1) 103:15 continue (5) 34:7 85:19 crown (1) 16:20 dc53531 (1) 60:16 dc800011 (1) 117:3 didnt (14) 5:9 17:6 78:12 choice (1) 96:23 complaint (1) 7:13 86:16 92:20 101:22 cscs (2) 86:21 87:1 dc54151 (1) 144:18 dc800013 (1) 117:15 79:4 80:16 101:14,14 choosing (1) 23:6 complete (1) 51:7 continued (5) 38:17 42:4,21 ctu (1) 56:25 dc55091 (1) 4:3 dc800015 (1) 119:5 108:25 113:3 119:25 136:6 chose (2) 96:22,24 completed (5) 5:11 34:6 89:19 100:24 cubicle (5) 113:23,25 117:21 dc55109 (1) 7:7 dc800018 (1) 121:22 140:13,24 141:1 chosen (1) 28:23 62:9,11 86:25 continues (1) 90:11 123:20 133:11 dc55651 (1) 65:3 dc800020 (1) 123:2 die (1) 22:11 choudary (4) 6:24 9:20,23 completes (1) 131:1 continuing (4) 47:20 92:25 culture (3) 5:25 6:8 59:15 dc55652 (1) 66:9 dc800022 (1) 125:5 different (8) 23:16 30:7 40:4 11:20 completion (1) 52:7 102:18 147:16 curfew (3) 74:6 86:3 145:4 dc55671 (1) 62:1 dc80005 (1) 112:14 55:22 58:3 129:23 132:4 choudarys (2) 7:23 9:25 complex (1) 21:2 contract (2) 68:10 79:7 current (4) 45:19 53:21 dc55678 (1) 62:2 dc80007 (1) 114:9 134:11 christian (1) 44:13 compliance (4) 76:8 77:9 contradictory (1) 53:2 54:23,23 dc55871 (1) 29:1 dc80009 (1) 115:24 difficult (6) 37:20 47:14 christmas (2) 69:10 145:2 93:11 110:7 contrary (2) 14:21 33:1 currently (1) 81:2 dc565311 (1) 5:1 dci (17) 1:6,9,15 3:1 47:16 54:16 99:7 130:6 147:20 chromebook (2) 87:19 97:21 compliant (1) 57:11 contrast (1) 71:21 curtains (1) 94:5 dc60525 (1) 9:5 72:11 73:1 102:18 113:15 difficulties (2) 47:6 92:9 chronologies (1) 147:19 complied (1) 109:19 convenient (2) 46:17 102:6 custodial (6) 17:16 18:11 dc63773 (1) 141:4 134:21 135:5,8 138:13 digital (3) 21:22 71:7 87:5 church (1) 30:23 comply (1) 74:1 conversation (3) 59:25 98:25 33:12 65:13 135:15,17 dc64091 (1) 66:18 146:3,6,23 149:4 dimensions (1) 33:11 circle (1) 128:8 component (1) 28:6 141:22 custody (9) 5:11 15:2,6 dc64096 (1) 66:20 deal (6) 39:23 53:16 79:18 direct (5) 116:20 117:4 circled (1) 127:5 compound (1) 30:17 conversations (4) 69:16,23 21:11 33:20 39:21 52:15 dc64101 (1) 80:23 87:10 134:22 143:9 122:2,23 131:4 circumstances (4) 42:14 computer (4) 82:12 87:19 70:14 108:24 55:19 61:13 dc64104 (1) 80:25 dealers (1) 41:12 directly (4) 21:13 43:14 54:8 140:2 143:21 111:3 132:12 convert (4) 26:23 cut (5) 23:13,22 94:1,2 dc64106 (1) 81:10 dealing (2) 62:17 86:20 44:15 58:23 civilian (1) 34:15 comradeship (1) 53:24 44:13,18,22 117:24 dc64151 (1) 90:6 dealt (3) 30:10 45:8 84:24 disadvantaged (1) 83:13 claimed (3) 25:3 31:3 95:6 concept (1) 35:10 converters (1) 82:15 cutting (1) 115:12 dc64154 (1) 90:8 death (1) 141:23 disagreeing (1) 35:25 clarify (1) 52:19 concern (1) 70:16 convicted (5) 13:3 cuttings (1) 45:16 dc64155 (1) 90:18 deceased (1) 6:22 disbeliever (1) 23:13 classification (3) 38:10,16 concerned (4) 39:19 96:19 61:11,13,17 85:2 dc64171 (1) 95:15 december (20) 14:2,7,14 discarded (1) 133:25 D 41:23 105:4 139:25 convictions (1) 84:1 dc64175 (1) 95:16 15:4 20:5 22:3 41:6 discharging (1) 64:11 clean (1) 144:15 concerning (5) 28:7 37:12 convinced (1) 101:12 daily (2) 54:15 86:10 dc64231 (1) 56:14 51:7,10 52:8 59:6 66:16,19 disclose (1) 83:25

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

disclosed (2) 84:4 85:2 episode (1) 24:3 explosion (1) 14:25 find (12) 94:14 99:7,9,9 fulfil (1) 138:24 grade (1) 24:10 E disclosure (3) 84:11 85:5 episodes (1) 25:1 explosive (2) 14:24 131:15 105:12 113:3 119:25 full (1) 145:16 graded (3) 67:7,12 68:3

100:15 earlier (11) 32:25 66:22 erg (4) 32:12 33:11 37:5 53:6 explosives (1) 119:4 133:16 140:3,10 141:12 fuller (1) 94:2 granted (1) 78:15 discounted (1) 123:12 113:24 114:25 123:17 error (1) 85:10 express (2) 11:11 79:24 147:21 fund (1) 137:11 graphic (2) 112:15 125:5 discover (1) 119:12 124:2,12 126:16 130:19 escape (5) 20:12,15 38:9,16 expressed (2) 64:12 93:5 finding (4) 93:6 99:7 fundamentalist (2) 12:2 great (1) 22:20 discovered (4) 84:2,4 120:2 133:4,10 60:18 expressing (2) 62:25 97:5 101:7,20 137:5 grey (1) 98:24 133:5 early (14) 3:1 4:21 5:18 escaping (1) 20:19 extended (4) 18:11 19:3 fine (3) 2:24 108:3 146:14 funding (2) 15:12 107:20 grievance (2) 6:9 37:12 discretion (1) 69:6 10:22 22:1 50:15 53:7 essentially (6) 19:5,16 36:12 86:3 145:16 finish (2) 100:15 146:11 fundraising (2) 64:4,5 grievances (1) 6:3 discuss (6) 55:23 56:2 76:5 55:14 61:19 79:19,25 83:6 38:5 65:1 138:24 extension (2) 18:12 19:2 firearms (2) 16:13 33:3 funds (1) 15:24 grooming (1) 41:11 90:25 100:25 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86:12 145:16 23:2,9 24:1 26:12,16,20 expert (3) 12:5 138:1 145:10 file (1) 130:13 friday (5) 63:14 84:9 102:21 good (11) 1:4,4,6,10,11 hear (17) 6:13 20:21 53:17 during (21) 2:6 10:14,22 29:18 31:6 35:1,12 36:18 experts (2) 12:7 138:1 fill (1) 135:25 113:15 147:1 62:11 64:6 69:14 73:17 58:1 69:17 76:1,7 85:16 22:19,23 23:1 29:3 62:3 39:2 41:6 43:18 44:8,9 expiry (2) 144:23 145:4 final (6) 39:20 66:15 95:12 friends (4) 53:24 70:15 110:1 141:20 146:7 89:17 91:8 93:4 97:25 70:1,3,4 74:19 92:19 96:17 46:6 47:21 48:8,23 49:4 explained (5) 1:16 74:22 118:24 130:8 134:23 141:23 government (1) 68:11 119:18 138:21 140:18 101:16 103:2 109:18 50:18 51:1 59:11,21,23 93:24 136:20 141:8 finally (5) 109:5 118:23 front (6) 47:5 92:4 104:1,11 governments (1) 77:5 141:17 147:5 116:17 119:9 123:6,19 61:1 62:22 63:9 130:14 exploration (1) 102:19 123:16 138:5 144:17 126:11 130:17 governor (3) 24:9,9,10 heard (13) 20:11,21 55:20 dvds (2) 94:6 100:23 environment (2) 31:21 75:21 explored (2) 52:13 135:18 financially (1) 54:11 frustrations (1) 106:11 gps (3) 74:15 110:4 121:24 64:7 66:25 81:23 83:2

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

87:4,18 103:2 122:14 housing (2) 78:22 80:4 index (4) 29:6 38:6 52:14 37:17 43:23 48:1 55:8 judge (28) 1:4,8,11 2:11,21 111:16 112:6,22,25 116:16 119:18 120:3 125:1 135:10 however (30) 3:20 5:20,21 149:2 68:25 69:24 71:1 72:19 13:16,22 14:1 19:1,6 113:17,18 114:5,17,25 123:15 129:23 141:18 hearing (3) 72:25 134:24 6:17 7:11,13 10:20 12:1,2 indicate (1) 96:18 73:2 78:4,22 79:25 80:9 27:2,11 46:19 47:3 72:22 115:10,19,20 118:23 lawyers (2) 1:25 72:4 147:22 18:13 26:3 28:6 42:2,20 indicated (2) 110:20 111:20 82:24 93:23 94:2 96:5 102:5,8,17 113:11,14 122:4,15 123:2,12,18 lay (1) 2:3 hed (5) 88:1 105:21 106:10 50:11 57:9 61:13 65:18 indication (2) 40:1 109:3 102:3 104:1 121:14 122:8 145:19,24 124:3,8,22 125:7,10,16 layer (1) 116:23 111:20 133:20 80:14,16 84:2 85:1,10 indications (2) 26:6 110:22 123:11 126:10 128:1,11 146:5,11,14,17,23 148:1 126:1 127:1,5,6,18 laying (1) 2:16 held (2) 9:9 59:6 90:21 96:22 104:17 119:23 indirectly (1) 21:14 129:5 130:14 147:14 judges (1) 19:13 129:5,10,19,24 lead (3) 13:1 40:4 89:20 help (6) 2:13 47:12 61:9 121:1 137:1 142:25 individual (9) 4:8,12 7:9,10 intranet (1) 71:12 julia (6) 88:6 92:25 137:11,12,18,24 138:6,13 leader (4) 6:24 27:14,16 68:11 88:22 105:12 hsbc (2) 114:22 128:15 12:19,20 35:17 39:1 61:14 introduced (1) 71:8 105:11,15,18 109:10 139:5,23 142:5 143:2 98:20 helped (2) 78:23 83:15 huddled (1) 61:3 individuals (4) 8:22 13:2,5,8 introduction (1) 2:12 july (20) 8:24 11:24 19:23 144:1,19 leaders (1) 60:8 helpful (1) 147:9 hurt (1) 95:7 indoctrination (1) 37:14 investigate (1) 119:12 20:1 24:20 25:5 26:21 khans (62) 2:3 3:1 4:4,21 leadership (3) 28:17 41:6,8 helping (1) 111:10 hussain (2) 15:22 137:24 industry (1) 86:22 investigated (2) 139:17,18 27:4,13 28:10 35:13 36:3 5:17 7:20 9:2 11:23 14:14 leading (5) 14:7 35:24 97:5 helps (1) 47:11 influence (2) 24:15 34:23 investigating (1) 1:17 39:2,15 46:7 47:20,22 48:9 17:2 19:17 21:2 22:2 27:24 102:3 103:16 hemmings (1) 126:10 I influenced (2) 34:16 54:10 investigation (7) 1:18 22:1 59:22,24 31:8,24 38:9,17 41:22 leads (1) 96:9 hence (1) 36:15 influences (2) 7:3 54:5 73:3 85:12 91:20 104:18 jumping (2) 23:15 49:19 42:14 43:11 45:10 47:17 league (5) 32:21 138:10 here (37) 2:13 4:3 14:10 idea (2) 84:13 141:20 influencing (3) 23:8 26:14 134:23 june (16) 23:10 24:1 33:17 49:10 53:21 54:23 58:16 139:5,15 141:24 22:17 23:9 26:12,20 27:12 identified (12) 12:16 16:19 34:17 investigations (4) 109:24 34:18 35:2 38:8,22 45:21 59:12 62:4 66:15 67:16 learned (1) 69:1 34:10 35:1,12,22 40:14 46:13 52:15 80:17 104:18 influential (3) 46:3 56:18 111:15 120:24 130:9 56:9 58:4 59:12,19 86:7 69:24 71:3,18,25 72:8 73:8 learners (1) 137:25 41:5 43:17 44:24 48:8,23 106:10 116:19 117:3,8 59:17 invitation (1) 81:23 87:2,8 93:2 76:8 85:22 87:11,24 92:19 learning (12) 32:7 50:9 49:3 51:1,14 56:15 59:11 119:6 123:9 inform (1) 54:19 invited (4) 87:4 89:24 90:21 jury (32) 1:3,16 8:2 25:20 93:10 95:1 98:10 102:19 64:1,8 66:11 87:6,19 89:24 62:22 65:4 73:13 90:6 identify (10) 2:8 25:16 33:7 information (14) 4:21,24 106:4 41:17 46:22 47:2,4 50:13 106:19 107:22 108:24 90:9 100:10 101:2 102:23 91:19 97:16 112:14 131:9 37:20 49:15 62:1 103:17 6:7,10,13 7:19 27:18 42:3 involve (2) 57:21 58:7 70:20,23 72:2,19,22,24 110:14 114:12 116:1 least (4) 16:12 18:1 80:8 132:7,17 138:6 141:6,19 121:8 122:24 139:22 44:10 51:2 52:1 59:25 involved (22) 5:24,25 6:2,8 87:4 102:9,11,16 113:8 118:20 120:3 121:14,17,24 140:15 144:23 identifying (1) 118:18 71:23 72:5 7:24 8:7 11:5 13:8,17 114:9 117:2,14 121:23 126:15 130:10 138:2 140:6 leave (2) 100:3 125:24 herself (1) 62:5 identity (8) 29:15 33:24 initial (1) 98:25 21:14 22:18 30:15 31:18 124:2 146:18,22 142:12 leaving (6) 49:6 96:7 106:23 hes (7) 26:6 103:5 116:14 36:25 37:12 53:25 54:6 initially (8) 17:14 24:17 43:4,14 44:14 45:23 46:3 147:3,11,15,18,21 kicked (1) 4:13 124:16 127:24 129:25 127:24 128:1 129:1 145:8 62:9 79:21 45:17 77:17,22 82:6,9 84:7 50:12 55:23 58:23 77:5 jurys (1) 70:24 kill (2) 34:14 61:17 led (4) 77:1 120:9 141:10 hexahydrate (1) 27:22 ideologies (1) 57:10 initiative (1) 68:9 involvement (1) 76:11 justified (2) 12:3 19:10 killed (4) 46:12 139:8,14 145:22 hidden (1) 31:11 ideology (1) 68:23 injured (1) 30:22 involving (2) 25:10 31:7 justifying (1) 42:11 141:8 lee (2) 45:5 61:12 hide (2) 116:15 118:4 ie (2) 17:22 75:18 inmate (4) 34:14,16 63:13 isis (1) 45:16 kim (1) 75:25 left (9) 98:15 103:22 112:11 K high (20) 3:13 5:3,9 ied (7) 28:5 112:10 124:4 66:22 islam (5) 6:18 10:9 29:15 kind (5) 28:7 34:5 54:19 113:23,25 114:11 115:24 20:8,15,18,23 24:17 25:5 129:13 133:20 134:6,18 inmates (7) 28:24 41:7,11 32:19 40:24 kashmir (5) 6:4,9 16:1,11 118:6 144:11 122:23 131:11 28:22 38:11,22 42:9 51:11 ieva (1) 53:8 43:6,10 45:2 48:2 islam4uk (2) 9:25 10:6 33:4 kingdom (2) 3:6 73:23 lefthand (2) 113:23 117:20 52:14 60:18 65:10 66:6 ignore (1) 145:3 innocent (1) 113:1 islamic (10) 6:5,23 7:23 keen (1) 147:18 kitchen (2) 132:17 133:7 legislation (1) 12:3 75:20 136:15 ill (9) 5:6 37:3 41:18 46:23 innovation (1) 87:5 12:13 13:17 16:2,11 44:12 keep (3) 101:14,15 135:8 knew (5) 43:8,11 45:17 88:2 leisure (1) 82:11 higher (2) 35:7 67:6 90:25 101:11 102:12 input (1) 71:1 115:14 137:5 ken (9) 81:15 97:19 100:23 141:21 less (2) 20:23 127:15 highlighted (1) 52:18 114:24 148:1 inquest (2) 70:25 134:24 islamist (1) 21:8 101:11,13,14 106:8,10 knife (3) 43:7 133:4,8 let (1) 93:23 highlights (1) 96:10 im (28) 21:19 49:14 53:16 inside (5) 86:3,4 98:16 113:4 isnt (2) 20:5 140:19 107:21 knives (21) 61:15 117:25 lets (1) 49:15 highly (4) 14:4 20:12 31:21 55:14 59:23 63:3,12 67:8 114:6 isolated (3) 32:3 97:2 110:22 kept (2) 21:21 69:14 119:10,13,17,17,19,22,25 letter (2) 51:9 100:15 136:16 68:5 70:19 72:11,12 84:20 insight (1) 37:22 isolating (1) 105:5 key (8) 21:19 41:17 70:21 120:2,5,13,17,22 121:3,4 letters (1) 67:13 highspeed (1) 88:23 85:22 91:15 98:5 124:8,22 insinuation (1) 23:7 issues (3) 94:12 101:3 137:17 71:2 72:3 76:4 136:20 128:19 129:2 133:3,7,10 level (4) 5:11 75:7 76:11 hii (1) 37:5 135:6,8 140:10 143:11,25 inspector (1) 123:9 items (14) 114:17 140:20 knock (1) 141:11 137:25 himself (15) 4:25 5:25 6:5,9 145:10,12,16 147:4,18 inspire (2) 13:23 14:16 117:5,12,17 118:18 keys (1) 36:20 know (20) 7:22 9:16 13:18 levels (1) 23:16 7:12 11:19 29:14 54:14 image (10) 9:19 84:14 instigator (1) 49:1 120:18,20,22,25 121:8 keyworkers (1) 76:3 48:16 57:6 75:14 98:14 liable (1) 16:22 68:24 74:7 84:3 97:2,6 103:24 104:6,10 106:18,24 instruction (1) 48:25 130:10 133:20 134:5,11 khan (277) 1:21 3:21,25 111:15,17 112:11 116:15 library (4) 78:20 79:12 86:17 105:5 109:1 107:12 125:12 131:14 intel (1) 57:6 its (39) 13:14 16:20 18:18 4:1,9,24 5:10 6:1,7,17 130:7 136:4,9,13 139:5 110:15 history (5) 21:2 47:16 52:24 images (4) 8:12,14 9:7,8 intelligence (58) 27:7 30:10 34:2 37:4,20 7:6,9,10,13 8:7,14 142:5,12 145:11 146:5 licence (20) 17:21 18:15 135:15,17 imam (1) 29:11 21:3,16,20,23 22:8 26:24 38:5 40:10 45:14,18 46:17 9:10,20,24 10:4,7,14 knowledge (2) 72:15 117:22 19:5,6,7 73:10,14 75:9,23 hit (1) 31:3 imams (1) 62:10 27:9,18 29:17 30:1 55:22 56:14 60:3,7 67:6,23 11:5,8,11 12:17,18,21 known (9) 8:24 12:23 25:20 77:10 81:8 85:23 86:6 hmp (15) 19:21,24,25 immediate (1) 16:16 34:6,11,13 35:2,3,23 71:2 72:6 96:24,25 98:3 13:7,10 14:14,20 15:22 26:23 27:21 35:3 45:2,4 88:21 89:2 99:17 105:6 20:1,2,4,6 22:13 28:9 imminent (1) 57:5 36:7,18 38:25 39:11 103:15 110:20 111:17 16:21 17:13,25 19:19 20:8 92:14 109:19 143:6 145:4 31:14 33:18 39:17 44:11 impact (1) 79:13 40:14,18,25 41:17 42:4,21 124:3 126:5,6 130:6,7,14 22:8,13,17,23 23:4,7 knows (3) 9:15 57:4 113:8 lies (2) 40:23 42:23 67:17 69:7 important (2) 53:10 105:5 43:2 44:21,25 47:18 48:8 136:14 139:21 140:18,25 24:3,14,16,20 kuffar (1) 23:13 life (16) 1:21 2:3 3:2 4:21 hoax (3) 124:4 129:12 impress (2) 35:7,20 55:10 56:11,16 58:20,25 145:15 147:2 25:1,2,5,15,22 kuffars (2) 23:13,22 11:15 15:1 54:15 63:3 133:19 impressing (1) 35:8 59:9,11 60:25 61:7 62:21 ive (4) 9:14 11:6 38:13 135:8 26:6,10,13,21 27:14,19 66:13 79:20 102:19 L hold (3) 29:7,8,9 imprisonment (5) 17:15 63:10 66:21,25 ixion (7) 83:11,15 86:20 89:2 28:16 29:5,19 30:15,19,24 108:19,20 138:16 holding (1) 127:6 18:12 23:1 24:25 137:13 67:2,7,12,23 68:3 70:21 92:23 100:13 104:23 31:2,14 32:14,18 33:17,23 lack (2) 54:14,15 141:11,21 holdings (2) 83:11,15 improper (1) 104:18 71:3,3,7,10,14 72:2,8 34:15,18 35:3,7,19,23 ladies (2) 1:4 46:20 lifestyle (2) 96:11 97:5 holland (2) 10:7 70:5 improved (4) 40:1 58:22 93:15 J 36:3,7,19 37:1,9 lady (5) 75:25 88:6 92:22 light (3) 61:10 73:2 96:24 home (19) 24:10 80:10 86:13 62:4 66:6 intend (2) 16:15 129:9 39:6,12,15 40:19 41:1,8 105:11 109:6 like (13) 8:10 11:20 36:13 93:19 94:21 96:6,7 improvement (4) 38:17 intended (3) 26:1 33:4 58:10 jacket (8) 112:23 115:23 43:4,7,14 44:2 45:1,17,23 lap (1) 65:17 52:19 76:25 96:11 98:3 98:10,22 100:19 103:8,11 58:20 59:3 62:18 intensive (1) 75:22 116:4,6,10,14 130:5,7 46:2,14,15 47:23 48:9,25 large (9) 23:5 45:19 48:24 99:15 135:18 140:20 143:1 104:8 111:3 112:16 inability (1) 99:11 intent (1) 54:23 jacks (1) 135:6 49:4,17,21 50:8,18 89:12 94:5 100:5 144:9,10 117:3,16 121:25 145:3 inappropriate (1) 69:21 intention (2) 12:14 137:19 james (1) 5:8 51:2,10,14 52:12 54:20,23 116:7,11,22 likely (7) 2:22 14:25 80:8 hope (2) 47:11,14 incendiary (1) 27:24 interest (5) 6:21 64:13 79:24 january (15) 10:5 12:9 22:6 55:2,9,15 56:5,18,24 57:7 largely (1) 111:2 90:21 121:5 129:2 142:18 hopefully (1) 38:6 incident (10) 23:10 85:4 138:3 23:3 26:11 31:15 79:17 58:3 59:13 60:1,7,13,17,21 larger (1) 116:15 limited (1) 3:19 hosted (1) 87:5 30:7,12,16,22 35:15 36:3 interested (6) 2:14 50:11 80:4,20,24 81:24,25 61:2,23 62:18,24 larmour (9) 83:4 102:22 line (6) 27:14 29:5 52:2 hostel (6) 58:13 74:13 75:18 61:19 73:3 125:25 70:25 94:19 138:8 147:17 82:7,23 92:8 63:13,14,17,21,23,25 103:2 113:17 122:15 133:6 137:9 141:5 76:8 79:23 80:9 incidents (9) 3:25 21:12 internal (1) 141:17 jihad (1) 137:5 64:16 65:16 66:22 67:24 124:23 125:1,7,10 lines (4) 15:20 29:20 72:2 hostile (1) 45:23 24:16 30:2,4 43:5 44:20 internet (18) 6:5 78:21 jihadist (1) 12:15 68:6,15 69:3,12 70:1,4,8 lartin (7) 19:24 26:10 137:3 hosting (1) 90:20 48:5 49:18 79:12,15 80:13,14,16 jihadists (1) 45:16 74:19,22 75:14 76:3,12,13 27:3,10,11,19 29:22 link (1) 71:11 hough (31) 1:5,6,14,15 incitement (1) 35:15 82:14,17 86:17 87:20 jo (2) 61:24 141:17 77:13,20 78:1,19 79:9,19 last (20) 25:2 27:14 29:5 linked (1) 9:24 2:11,19 3:1 19:7 27:5,12 inciting (1) 35:17 94:14,15,16,21 99:12 job (13) 54:11 79:15 84:25 80:11,16,21 81:2 82:1,3,19 39:16 41:19 57:7 58:18 links (1) 59:14 46:16 47:16 72:23 73:7 include (1) 73:19 109:13 110:14 86:16 88:18,20,23,25 83:1,6,21 84:2,4,7,14,25 68:25 72:8 90:4,17 92:13 lionz (1) 82:10 102:6,17,18 113:12,15 included (5) 11:8 16:9,12 internetenabled (1) 74:4 89:16,20 92:19,23 141:12 85:9,16 86:16 87:4,25 103:9 108:10,11 liquids (1) 28:2 134:21 135:1,18 136:1,20 23:12 72:3 intervention (8) 31:15 33:24 jobcentre (4) 83:19 86:20 88:13 89:1,6,24 90:11,21 110:12,13,24 134:13 lisa (4) 92:23 100:13 104:23 146:7,8,13,15,25 147:16 includes (2) 56:15 142:9 36:25 37:4,5 38:1 41:2 88:9 107:10 91:16 93:20 95:17 146:17 109:13 149:5 including (17) 10:6 16:12,21 62:10 jobs (4) 78:22 86:18 94:15 96:5,10,16 97:4,10,20 lasting (1) 50:15 list (2) 99:15 147:11 hour (2) 86:3 107:2 27:21 28:1 40:19 41:1 interventions (1) 51:21 101:15 98:22 late (4) 63:25 77:23 80:4 literature (1) 70:8 hourly (1) 48:10 44:14 61:2 73:17 74:23 interview (5) 9:11 55:4 83:4 jobseekers (1) 83:13 100:9,13,19,21,22,24,25 93:5 little (24) 9:17 38:8,19 41:18 hours (14) 93:18 98:15 86:16 92:15 103:18 120:21 84:25 86:15 john (1) 125:7 101:5,11,13,18,24 102:23 later (29) 2:25 7:11 9:11 45:21 51:24 55:20 60:24 108:9,11 114:22 115:5,22 133:21 135:17 interviews (1) 32:18 join (1) 82:3 103:3,7,16,20,25 11:11 12:20,23 17:10 25:2 66:4 67:6 71:25 75:16 116:20 119:2 123:8,20,21 increase (4) 53:22 54:4,8,25 intimation (1) 28:2 joined (2) 82:6,9 104:7,13,24,25 30:19 31:2 32:7 33:17 101:16 104:6 106:15 107:1 124:10 134:13 independent (2) 5:16 12:7 intimidating (2) 26:22 48:14 joseph (2) 10:7 70:5 105:2,11,15 106:1,8 41:19 45:21 48:4 55:9 114:8 138:16,17,20,21 house (5) 74:13 75:20 81:2 indeterminate (2) 17:15 into (36) 1:18 13:5 15:2 journey (6) 121:14,17 107:6,9,17 108:6 60:24 64:13 91:23 101:13 139:7 141:21 146:12 126:11 141:9 136:5 19:21 20:14 24:24 25:2,5 123:7,19 129:5,10 109:5,10,19,25 110:22,24 106:5 107:15 111:25 live (6) 52:21 58:7,10,12

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

75:15 79:23 males (1) 7:8 108:6,12,23 146:18 morning (11) 1:4,5,6,10,11 never (5) 10:20 33:4 oclock (2) 104:7 146:21 outrages (2) 8:5 17:6 lived (2) 10:20 103:16 man (7) 10:21 43:6,11,14 memory (1) 134:12 106:20 108:10 127:19 52:20,25 62:16 october (11) 34:11 59:6 outside (4) 62:5,24 73:23 lives (1) 7:3 68:24 113:20 126:24 men (3) 14:3 16:10 137:12 128:17 146:20 147:1 newspaper (1) 45:15 62:23 63:9 67:2 81:17 122:6 living (2) 9:3 94:23 manage (2) 54:20 93:12 mens (1) 115:23 mortem (1) 118:18 newspapers (1) 45:18 92:19 93:5,9,18 126:5 over (36) 22:6,16 23:3 liz (1) 107:9 managed (7) 40:4,6,7 62:15 mental (1) 96:19 mosque (8) 15:25 63:15 next (17) 9:19 19:20 24:4 odd (1) 146:18 24:15,20 29:8 33:6 37:13 loaded (1) 87:21 75:25 76:13 136:11 mention (1) 140:19 84:8,12,14,14 94:11 63:19 89:5 90:14 115:18 offence (10) 4:16 15:10 17:9 39:5 41:17 42:10 48:10,10 local (6) 64:18 65:8 80:3 management (4) 55:23 56:2 mentioned (6) 11:7 72:22 110:25 116:18,18 117:7,7 122:14 29:6,6 33:1 52:14 54:24 54:4 58:18 59:9 63:20,25 82:4 84:7 92:9 76:16,20 88:1 99:6 119:10 144:6 most (10) 2:22 23:6,17 128:1,4 137:25 138:8 73:18 145:21 64:23 68:25 71:20 73:19 localised (1) 40:11 manager (1) 84:1 mentor (17) 64:8,13 68:7,14 32:8,17 72:7 94:16 105:5 147:6 offences (10) 13:3 74:6 90:18 94:3 99:25 locally (1) 40:7 managing (10) 28:20 29:1 78:2,10,13,18 79:3,4,8,11 114:17 129:2 nice (2) 89:14 114:7 14:20,21,23 15:9 34:5 84:5 100:9 106:11 107:2 110:24 located (1) 132:24 31:19 39:24 65:22 74:25 86:17 94:12,13 99:12 mother (3) 5:6 108:15 nick (1) 135:6 85:2,5 141:21 112:19 117:4 131:16 138:7 location (5) 34:19 97:15 77:9 81:20 89:8 95:18 111:6 140:16 nike (3) 116:21 131:3,5 offender (8) 56:19 61:23 139:6 147:6 114:10 115:25 117:15 manchester (4) 19:25 20:1 mentors (6) 68:11 77:25 motherfucker (1) 4:11 nine (3) 13:2 14:3 112:7 64:15 65:10,17 66:7 71:23 overall (1) 52:12 lock (1) 48:25 31:14 33:20 78:3,5,5 110:16 motivated (2) 13:23 139:24 nix (7) 88:6 92:25 75:4 overheard (1) 60:1 locker (1) 31:10 mandatory (1) 73:10 mercury (15) 21:20 26:12 motivation (1) 37:16 105:11,15,18 109:6,10 offenders (4) 4:23 68:11 overnight (1) 90:19 logging (1) 86:17 manifesting (1) 33:11 29:17 30:1 35:2 36:16 motorbike (2) 117:10 118:2 nominals (1) 28:13 75:21 77:10 overt (2) 42:19 59:3 logistics (2) 97:18 98:2 manner (2) 48:14 57:11 38:25 45:22 47:18 59:11 mounted (1) 14:4 nomis (2) 71:4,21 offending (11) 13:4 17:11 overtime (1) 146:17 london (18) 13:6,9 16:23 manning (1) 7:25 60:25 62:21 63:9 71:3,6 move (20) 11:3 14:9 22:13 nonbeliever (1) 23:14 38:6 51:22 52:16 60:20 overview (2) 3:21 109:16 19:14,22 91:3,11 97:11 manoa (2) 116:21 131:5 message (3) 90:2 101:10 32:23 39:13 52:16 63:4 noncompliance (1) 109:22 66:13 68:12 135:11 138:24 own (13) 4:18 24:4 50:5 98:1 100:11 101:2 106:5 manuscript (1) 52:17 107:19 66:15 69:24 70:18 73:8 none (5) 12:2 109:23 121:8 139:13 79:25 80:1 90:23 96:12 108:22 113:18 121:14,17 many (3) 2:16 8:4 139:6 messages (2) 109:6,9 80:9 83:13 91:23 92:14 140:19,22 offer (2) 2:25 32:24 97:6 105:1,3,7 110:21 129:6 137:18 map (2) 114:11 115:24 met (5) 10:16 12:3 74:24 95:24 110:21 111:13 nonexistent (1) 136:17 offered (1) 54:12 116:10 long (11) 19:24 26:10 mappa (34) 55:18,21 93:2 97:13 126:21 127:16 nonmuslim (1) 30:14 officer (24) 1:11,17 owner (3) 83:23 84:5 95:5 27:3,10,11,19 29:22 39:1 56:5,10,11 58:17 59:2,6 method (2) 16:19 25:10 moved (18) 19:23 20:2 25:16 nonmuslims (2) 51:4 56:20 2:12,16,21 4:25 6:12,14 41:10 98:13 135:8 61:6 66:15,19 67:3,20,25 microphone (1) 9:17 26:10 34:18 40:6 43:7 47:8 noon (1) 98:23 61:14,17 62:6,25 74:2,24 P longer (9) 18:15 19:3,5,6,7 68:2 74:19,21 80:20 midapril (1) 84:25 56:24 79:8 82:7,10 83:21 nor (2) 16:19 52:22 76:13 89:3 92:17 94:19

77:24 94:12 105:19 123:24 81:1,25 82:25 87:11 89:5,9 middle (5) 8:13 39:3 43:22 86:1 90:22 105:21,23 norbury (1) 12:10 97:19 99:3,8 106:8 115:15 pack (1) 119:2 longheld (1) 135:13 90:7 91:4,9 92:13,15 95:12 46:2 47:22 106:10 normal (5) 34:19 77:4 141:17 packaging (7) 119:17,18 longstanding (1) 70:5 97:4 98:7,11 147:12 midlands (1) 57:22 movement (1) 101:16 109:1,2 110:10 officers (23) 40:9 74:25 120:2,10 133:3,3,4 longterm (1) 16:9 march (16) 3:4 18:7 midmorning (1) 46:20 movements (6) 43:11 normally (1) 103:6 76:16,19,21 77:1,20 83:22 padded (3) 115:23 116:4,10 look (25) 8:12 9:6 10:3 12:8 22:16,17 42:8 44:25 might (9) 2:25 16:17 17:5 110:5,10 121:25 125:15 note (8) 14:11 38:16 41:16 84:11 87:15 88:2 pages (6) 21:6 22:4 46:1 13:13 14:9,12 22:4 38:13 78:8,11 79:17 81:13,24 58:12 59:4 145:19 146:6 129:5 67:12 94:1 102:21 131:3 93:9,18,23 94:4 98:8,8,20 71:19,20,25 44:7 59:22 60:24 66:18 82:7 83:1,21 84:10 102:1 147:8,17 moves (1) 85:16 132:5 103:19 114:4 126:1,20 paid (4) 117:11 121:1,2,3 67:19 78:22 98:18 104:6 marked (1) 114:10 mind (5) 17:10 78:25 113:6 moving (23) 10:13 13:25 notebooks (1) 12:1 130:9 painting (1) 101:25 139:7 141:3 market (6) 114:23 119:16,24 116:13 137:15 19:22,25 20:4 25:15 29:25 noted (7) 4:17 65:5,17,20 official (2) 88:10 93:1 pair (3) 108:14 116:21 117:9 143:1,20,21,22 147:7,13 120:1 121:7 128:5 mindset (4) 34:3,4 38:6 31:13 41:15 45:21 48:7 96:16 97:17,19 offshoot (1) 12:10 pakistan (13) 3:6 5:6,23 looked (9) 33:15 43:2 65:6 martyrdom (3) 115:14 51:22 59:18,21 60:24 79:17,25 notes (1) 85:8 often (5) 16:4 25:10 71:15 12:18 15:13 16:11 17:5 66:22 114:5 127:1 130:19 118:12 137:12 minimum (2) 17:19,20 84:20 91:15 92:18 98:5 nothing (7) 32:19 45:17 96:5,7 32:23 39:8,10,13 69:24 140:1 145:8 mask (5) 117:10 118:2,3,5 minute (1) 140:3 104:21 105:9 107:13 100:24 110:18,19 138:22 old (7) 4:6 63:17 66:24 137:20 looking (36) 6:16 7:17 11:22 121:2 minuted (1) 98:2 ms (11) 53:12 61:24 62:3,17 141:25 67:24 96:25 110:1 138:14 panel (10) 60:18 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31:7 ongoing (3) 4:7 25:14 99:4 11:22 12:9 13:15,25 15:19 146:25 maths (1) 50:1 mistake (1) 31:4 murder (4) 61:18 139:20 36:24 50:8,18 51:1 90:1,20 online (4) 6:21 94:17 99:9 27:17 31:13 32:16 33:6,22 looks (2) 98:3 146:11 matter (1) 142:19 mitigate (1) 91:12 140:1,2 91:10 95:10,13 97:11 120:14 34:21 37:8,19 38:15 39:23 loose (2) 31:9,11 matters (9) 1:24 64:19 69:18 mixed (1) 58:18 murdered (1) 45:4 98:6,23 100:13,16 onto (7) 19:24,24 70:18 41:22 45:14 49:17 50:7 lose (1) 36:15 72:21 76:5 107:18 111:2 mm (1) 143:19 muslim (17) 6:22 10:18 23:5 101:5,18 102:21 103:7 79:17 82:10 86:17 122:22 51:14 54:3,22 55:14 56:6 losing (1) 79:11 134:23 147:10 moaning (1) 108:15 26:17,18,19 27:14,16 104:22 105:9 106:11,20 onwards (4) 11:2 69:11 78:1 60:11 64:3,7,14 69:11 lost (2) 85:4 141:12 maximum (1) 33:20 mobile (2) 80:11,13 30:13,16 35:4 45:1 46:9 107:16 111:18,22 112:7 88:16 75:16 76:7 79:18 82:3 lot (4) 94:7,17 105:3 147:4 maxx (2) 113:21 114:10 modification (1) 86:6 51:2 59:17 60:8 63:14 113:16 121:17 125:25 open (2) 32:24 68:22 84:24 85:7,22 87:10,23 low (4) 65:14 67:6,12 68:2 maybe (1) 57:4 module (1) 52:11 muslims (4) 10:10 26:14 126:5,6,21,24 127:20 opened (1) 100:2 88:17 91:14 95:25 97:8 lower (6) 35:9 75:7 104:10 mcbs (9) 28:20 31:18 33:19 mohammed (1) 12:20 63:16,22 number (21) 12:12 23:5 opening (1) 14:11 98:6 100:16 101:5 102:22 106:23 118:5 125:10 34:18,23 36:4 40:7 42:1 mohibur (1) 10:7 must (4) 5:4 49:13 59:23 30:13 32:1 72:23,23 operated (1) 75:19 104:22 105:10 106:7 108:5 lucraft (25) 1:4,8,11 2:11,21 65:21 moment (14) 2:1 43:2 46:17 86:23 73:20,23 74:1,4,6 77:10 operating (3) 29:22 57:24 112:6 113:15 114:15 19:1,6 27:2,11 46:19 47:3 mean (7) 16:2 17:18 19:2 73:1 91:1 114:25 125:24 mutual (1) 70:15 88:2 89:16 94:5 100:5 71:22 115:18 116:18 117:7 72:22 102:5,8,17 40:8 57:9 79:11 144:1 137:19 138:12 139:8,11 myself (1) 57:18 110:20 125:16 129:8 operation (11) 1:17 8:24 118:23 121:19 122:14 113:11,14 145:19,24 meaning (2) 23:13 53:25 143:17,25 144:2 mystery (1) 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103:11,21 madrassa (5) 15:25 meet (3) 100:13 107:9 month (5) 57:16,19 82:22 nature (3) 13:4 17:11 31:17 observations (1) 48:10 option (1) 5:8 park (1) 113:21 16:2,10,14 32:24 124:24 110:12,13 navy (1) 115:23 obtain (6) 4:20 5:16 6:17 options (1) 100:25 parole (15) 17:22,22 magazine (2) 13:23 14:16 meeting (25) 42:2,2 56:8,10 monthly (1) 82:21 near (2) 92:1 132:20 7:19 91:16 133:21 order (2) 57:11 135:22 18:2,16,22,24 136:6,9,14 main (4) 47:23 49:1 70:15 58:2,4 66:15,19 67:3,20,25 months (13) 5:6 57:7,18 necessarily (1) 32:2 obtained (3) 85:12 87:1 organisation (9) 6:25 7:1,24 142:20 143:1,12,20 144:4 122:2 68:14 80:20,24 89:5,9 91:4 58:19 60:12 62:4,23 64:23 necessary (3) 28:6 85:4 100:6 8:3,3 10:2 79:10 83:10,16 145:7 mainly (4) 112:2,3 121:18 95:12 98:7,11 102:24 80:9 83:6 84:21 91:9 134:3 obtaining (3) 79:20 89:1 organised (1) 48:5 part (30) 2:11 10:18 139:21 104:23 107:10 125:1 110:24 neck (1) 22:10 92:9 original (1) 85:13 14:10,10 16:20 19:1 22:5 mainstream (1) 40:12 147:12 mood (1) 87:24 need (13) 1:25 17:10 37:8 obviously (8) 11:8 32:25 originally (1) 85:25 25:12,13 28:12 64:4,5 maintain (5) 10:22 69:12 meetings (12) 13:19 56:2,3 more (34) 2:4 5:16 6:17 47:9 53:23,25,25 58:6 60:9 83:14 109:12 113:23 118:4 others (20) 13:10 17:4 21:17 74:20 77:7 83:11 85:11 70:1,4 109:2 57:15,16 59:6 72:24 73:5 19:14 20:21 31:20 33:15 90:23 97:18 140:4 145:13 121:2 133:19 22:18,23 24:15 26:24 93:12 99:4,18,19 113:8 maintained (4) 32:18 41:24 74:19 87:11 91:9 92:13 34:7,19 37:18 40:2,3,10,11 needed (2) 38:14 117:23 occasion (12) 9:24 24:2 34:17 35:20 37:16 42:5 115:13 118:5 126:23 42:8 88:15 mellow (1) 69:1 41:20 43:25 53:17 55:9 needs (3) 31:20 60:3 136:10 33:21 50:23 82:23 100:21 43:15 45:23 54:1 56:19 130:22 132:4 137:11 141:3 majority (1) 20:3 member (5) 13:10 34:14 63:4 65:19 72:5 73:4 81:18 negative (6) 34:7 54:5 85:13 107:1 114:4 118:10 124:18 61:2 71:15 73:6 94:23 142:2,6 makes (2) 47:15 96:5 53:1 126:25 141:9 89:17 104:25 110:22 96:23 97:1 106:3 126:25 127:9 100:7 participants (1) 68:2 making (5) 16:9 25:17 47:14 members (13) 8:23 10:6 122:23 123:10 127:14 netting (5) 23:11,15,16,19 occasional (1) 69:15 otherwise (3) 3:24 144:4 participate (1) 16:15 60:18 95:8 13:16 16:24 47:3 54:16 128:11 135:1 137:20 49:19 occasions (3) 22:25 23:21 145:1 particular (6) 2:5,8 28:15 male (1) 14:15 77:4 102:8 103:12 140:11 146:8 network (1) 13:18 125:16 outlook (1) 40:2 47:17 88:19 116:12

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

particularly (6) 39:19 47:6 pipe (2) 14:15 138:7 practical (4) 78:4,5,18,24 privileges (1) 36:11 purchasing (4) 116:4 88:5,8,10,13,17 raise (4) 15:24 69:20 116:12 106:12 112:1 118:14 place (15) 3:3 6:4 7:25 8:23 practically (1) 104:14 probability (1) 64:8 117:5,17 128:19 89:1,6,12,16,20,23 147:10 144:17 18:7 30:2 43:9,12 58:4 practice (1) 17:18 probably (8) 40:9 119:18 purpose (2) 2:2 80:3 90:4,6,17,25 raised (4) 34:23 89:2 91:3 parties (1) 55:22 66:1,16 75:11 89:25 95:12 prayer (2) 26:19,19 124:3 137:25 145:12,13,15 purposeful (1) 65:20 91:3,8,14,19,23 101:4 partly (3) 27:9 123:12,13 139:20 prayers (2) 63:14 84:9 147:2 purposes (3) 18:18 113:2 92:1,3,7,13,19,22,25 rallying (1) 26:13 partner (1) 25:22 placed (4) 28:19 36:10 40:9 preacher (1) 6:24 probation (25) 4:25 6:12,14 131:18 93:4,8,14,17 ran (1) 7:10 parts (3) 2:8 28:6 133:25 44:15 preaches (1) 48:2 56:8 57:21 58:13 62:6,25 pursue (2) 68:17,18 95:1,4,9,12,15,21,24 ranking (1) 35:8 pass (2) 136:10,14 plan (6) 16:9,12,24 34:14 preaching (8) 7:20,22 74:2,13,24 75:19 76:13 pursued (1) 89:17 96:4,9,16 97:4,8,25 ranks (1) 35:9 passed (1) 17:25 36:1 39:7 8:8,8,15 13:17 32:19 61:3 79:23 85:8 89:3 94:19 pursuing (1) 77:5 98:4,13,16,18,22 99:14,21 rare (1) 136:14 passing (2) 80:17 136:7 planned (4) 16:22 66:1 113:6 preachings (1) 6:22 97:19 99:3,8 103:19 106:8 pushed (1) 44:2 100:5,9,13,16,21 rashid (1) 10:7 past (1) 29:9 124:12 predominantly (1) 70:12 109:14 141:17 143:8 pushing (1) 81:13 101:5,9,18,22 102:3 rather (6) 2:23 22:5 50:23 patrol (1) 136:10 planning (10) 1:21 15:12 prejudice (1) 54:4 problem (2) 122:21,21 putting (2) 72:11 134:18 103:2,7,10,14,24 57:8 98:2 145:3 pause (5) 46:19 125:19 35:24 42:2 65:16 107:14 premises (18) 11:23 57:24 problems (1) 4:8 pvc (1) 131:9 104:3,5,10,13,17,21 razor (3) 31:9,11 61:16 126:21 127:16 146:20 109:17 111:13,16,20 58:11 74:10,13 procedure (1) 60:14 105:2,9,15 106:2,7,17,22 razors (3) 117:12 118:9 paused (1) 125:24 plans (4) 17:7 58:8 62:8 75:15,17,18,20 76:9 79:25 procedures (1) 56:1 Q 107:1,4,9,12,25 121:1 pay (1) 108:16 100:14 80:7 81:3,19 85:11,16 proceed (2) 10:18 95:2 108:3,5,10,12,17,23 reached (4) 47:19 50:6

paying (1) 103:10 plastering (3) 102:1 106:13 90:22 91:18 process (13) 25:8 32:12,13 q (693) 1:20,24 2:8 109:5,9,16,22,24 102:20 130:18 payment (3) 82:23 123:13,15 107:21 preparation (15) 1:22 14:23 33:8 42:16 51:6 53:6 54:18 3:5,9,12,15,17 110:4,7,12,14,19,24 read (5) 17:10 70:22 pc (1) 98:19 plastic (4) 43:7 131:23,25 15:11 56:10 109:17 55:15 62:13 65:17 141:10 4:3,13,17,20 5:1,15 111:2,6,10,13,22,25 72:12,14,19 pcs (1) 126:10 132:2 111:13,21 115:13,16 143:9 6:7,12,16 7:2,6,16 112:3,5,14,19,22,25 reading (1) 141:20 peer (1) 47:13 play (3) 126:7 127:3,22 116:19 117:8 118:13,24 processes (1) 79:1 8:2,7,12,17 9:1,5,17,22 113:5,8,24 ready (1) 63:3 peninsula (1) 13:24 played (6) 11:13 58:1 126:8 119:9 140:13 produced (7) 13:23 32:11 10:3,12,18,22,25 114:3,9,15,20,24 realistic (2) 5:8 133:22 pensions (4) 88:11 93:1 127:4,23 129:18 preparations (2) 107:15 36:24 37:3,5 53:10 112:15 11:3,11,17,22 115:3,6,10,15,18,24 reality (1) 40:10 105:12 109:7 playing (3) 41:4 94:7 111:3 134:17 produces (1) 54:18 12:5,9,16,20,23 116:3,6,8,10,12,18,23 really (7) 7:8 34:2 64:6 penultimate (2) 51:14 97:8 plea (4) 15:14,18,23 17:2 preparatory (1) 13:20 products (1) 119:24 13:1,4,9,13,22 14:7,9,18 117:2,7,14,19,22 113:3 130:3,6 145:16 people (9) 23:18,19 31:20 plead (2) 15:9,21 prepare (1) 129:4 professional (1) 88:16 15:2,4,6,9,14,17 16:4,8 118:2,5,9,17,20,23 reason (9) 28:10 72:11 94:11 60:9 72:23 88:19 105:21 pleaded (3) 15:10,23 32:25 prepared (7) 41:16 49:10 profile (1) 10:4 17:2,9,13,18,25 119:5,9,12 120:2,5,9,20 95:4 136:2,20 139:2,4 111:10 139:6 pleasant (1) 96:20 56:11 61:23 70:25 74:18 programme (15) 31:18 33:24 18:5,9,17,21 19:10,12,17 121:4,7,11,14,19,22 144:2 per (1) 82:22 please (85) 10:3 22:5,7,15,22 125:14 34:1,2,6 36:25 38:2,5 20:7,11,14,18,21 122:2,4,8,11,14,19,21,24 reasonably (1) 103:10 perfectly (1) 113:1 23:2,9,25 24:19 26:20 preparing (1) 111:16 39:25 40:5 52:4,6,7,11 21:1,7,12,16,19 123:2,6,11,15,17,22,24 reasons (5) 25:17 28:3 124:6 perform (1) 77:8 27:1,12 31:6 35:12,22 presence (4) 1:3 47:2 102:16 62:12 22:2,13,15,22 124:2,6,8,11,18,22 131:19 139:12 perhaps (3) 9:17 147:11,14 36:6,16 37:2,7,19 39:5 110:16 programmes (3) 41:2 51:22 23:2,9,15,22,25 125:1,4,9,12,19 reassured (1) 100:23 period (34) 18:4,12 41:5 42:10,13 43:21 44:7 present (4) 28:22 42:13 52:3 24:6,10,12,16,19 126:5,7,13,16,20 recall (8) 4:1 143:9,12,13,22 19:3,3,5,6,8,17 21:10 45:8 46:1,6 47:20 48:23 68:15 86:18 progress (3) 51:15 65:7 25:1,5,8,15,21 127:3,9,12,16,22 144:3 145:22 146:1 41:18,19,24 50:13 51:17 49:3,16,25 50:25 55:2 presentation (2) 96:17 135:22 26:1,5,10,16,20 27:1,17 128:1,4,7,10,16,21,24 recalled (7) 1:9 19:8 143:3,4 57:23 59:10 62:3 63:25 56:14,22 59:10 60:16 62:1 108:24 progressing (1) 41:3 28:9,14,19,23 129:3,8,15,22 145:7,20 149:4 64:24 70:8,18 73:8 79:17 63:8 66:9 67:5,6,12 81:10 presented (4) 72:6 89:11 progression (1) 42:24 29:1,11,14,17,25 130:2,8,13,18,21,24 recalls (2) 103:3 143:11 80:6 84:20 91:15 103:16 90:7,18 91:19 93:14 94:3 100:25 109:1 prohibited (1) 6:25 30:4,7,10,15,19,23 131:1,5,8,11,16,20,23,25 receipt (1) 117:11 109:18 110:24 122:11 95:15 101:5 103:14,24 press (3) 7:19 9:9,10 prominent (1) 6:22 31:2,6,11,13,17,24 132:7,11,14,17,20,23 receive (4) 80:11 82:20 123:22 125:17 128:25 104:5 106:22 114:9 115:18 pretty (1) 142:16 promoting (5) 8:22 9:21 32:4,7,11,16,23 133:2,8,10,13,15,18,23 107:17 113:9 129:12 121:22 123:6,18 125:19,19 prevent (18) 76:22,24 11:8 47:24 77:5 33:3,6,10,14,22 134:3,9,16 received (13) 4:15 periods (1) 31:25 126:7,22 127:3,22 129:15 77:4,5,14,21 83:22 84:11 promotional (1) 83:5 34:1,6,10,13,18,21,25 135:13,15,17,21,25 21:5,24,25 27:19 44:10 permanently (1) 74:12 130:8,21,24 131:1,20 87:15 92:17 93:10 96:9 pronouncing (1) 53:13 35:6,12,15,19,22 136:9,13,17,19 59:25 72:6 82:21 87:18 permissible (1) 40:23 132:7,11,17 133:2,15,23 98:8,9,19 103:18 126:1,20 proof (1) 79:21 36:3,6,10,13,16,22,24 137:1,9,15,17,22 101:3 111:18 136:21 permission (1) 73:24 134:3 137:2 141:19 146:21 previous (5) 27:5 50:19 property (12) 15:1 91:21 37:3,7,16,25 138:5,16,20,24 recent (3) 42:15 62:4 134:15 person (5) 35:19 44:21 60:7 plot (4) 61:11,12 121:16,25 65:5,6 120:16 92:4,14,16 93:23 106:13 38:4,8,13,22,25 139:2,11,17,25 recently (5) 97:21 116:11 145:12,17 plus (1) 140:15 previously (2) 86:12 105:22 107:1 127:24 132:25 39:5,11,15,19,23 140:5,8,12,15,18,23 119:20 120:6 134:12 personal (1) 51:25 pm (9) 74:8 86:2,2,4,4 primarily (2) 75:20 76:14 133:5,13 40:4,8,13,18,22,25 141:1,16 recipe (1) 14:16 persons (4) 2:14 44:11 71:1 102:13,15 127:12 148:2 primary (1) 76:23 proportion (1) 32:4 41:5,10,15 42:7,10,13,23 142:5,9,12,16,19,23,25 recited (1) 23:12 147:17 poem (4) 23:12,22 63:6,7 principal (1) 83:9 proscribed (2) 8:3 10:1 43:1,4,10,14,17,21 143:5,8,12,15,20,25 reciting (1) 23:22 perspective (2) 129:24,24 points (2) 109:16 135:25 principally (1) 21:20 prosecution (2) 12:4 15:14 44:2,4,7,19,24 144:8,14,17 145:7,11,13 recommend (1) 38:1 perspex (2) 47:4,13 police (24) 4:4,5 7:6,13 8:19 principle (1) 52:21 prosecutions (1) 13:1 45:6,8,14,21 46:1,6,9,12 qc (3) 1:14 14:11 149:5 recommendation (2) 62:14 pessimism (1) 93:6 32:20 57:22,23 73:3 74:25 prior (4) 18:16 58:19 73:24 prosecutor (1) 14:11 48:1,4,7,13,18,20,23 qualification (2) 89:2,7 64:15 ph00351 (1) 92:3 76:16,19,22 77:1,2 118:12 proselytising (1) 8:9 49:3,9,13,20,24 qualifications (1) 83:12 recommendations (1) 64:19 ph003514 (1) 130:13 80:12,15 89:8 93:19 96:1 priorities (1) 57:8 prospect (2) 20:18 89:21 50:3,6,13,17,23,25 quarterly (1) 29:2 record (24) 21:21,22 26:12 ph003520 (1) 130:21 100:22 139:25 141:10,24 prison (82) 4:23 5:13 10:23 prospects (1) 93:6 51:6,9,13,17,21 52:2,6,10 question (2) 40:10 145:17 29:17 30:1 35:2 36:16 ph003521 (1) 130:24 polite (1) 49:21 18:14 19:8,17,21 protection (2) 17:16 55:16 53:4,10,16 54:3,18,22 questioned (1) 26:19 38:25 39:1 40:14,15 44:25 ph003522 (1) 131:1 political (1) 37:16 20:6,9,22,24 protective (3) 23:15 55:2,8,13,18,20,25 questions (10) 1:14 2:15,17 47:18 59:11 60:25 62:21 ph003523 (1) 131:8 pose (1) 28:23 21:2,3,20,21,22 22:1 24:9 66:10,12 56:5,10,14,18,22 134:22 135:2,4 146:6,9 63:10 71:4,4,6,7,18,21,21 ph003527 (1) 131:20 position (1) 64:10 25:11 28:13,15 29:7 31:24 provide (3) 75:22 78:3 57:4,14,18,21 149:5,6 recorded (2) 137:1,22 ph003533 (1) 132:7 positions (1) 94:17 32:14 34:4,19 35:4,18 36:8 101:13 58:1,6,10,12,15,22 quickly (1) 147:20 recording (2) 93:15 97:4 ph003534 (1) 132:11 positive (17) 37:22 40:2,3 38:1,18 39:11,11,16,19,20 provided (5) 4:25 27:20 68:7 59:2,6,9,19,21 quite (15) 62:18 65:18 69:14 records (14) 3:19 5:20 14:1 ph003537 (1) 132:14 49:24 50:3 51:25 62:9,25 40:9,12 41:20 42:17,18 80:12,18 60:7,11,16,24 61:6,9,19,22 88:15 89:7,12 103:5 21:4,5,20,23 39:12 47:18 ph003548 (1) 132:17 66:12 85:9 96:23,24 101:1 46:10 47:17 48:1 52:24 provides (1) 68:10 62:1,8,17,21 63:6,8,12,25 109:1,2 130:5 134:18 59:9,12 72:16 98:19 ph00391 (1) 132:23 105:24 106:16 107:7 53:8,11 57:1,19,23 providing (1) 32:13 64:3,7,10,14,18,21 140:25 141:1 147:2,4 114:21 ph003912 (1) 133:2 109:25 61:17,24 63:15 66:16 68:6 ps (2) 96:9 98:20 65:3,13,25 66:4,9,15,18 quotation (1) 66:21 recover (1) 139:21 ph003923 (1) 134:3 positively (1) 64:1 69:13 70:1,3,4 psychologist (4) 32:14 33:7 67:2,5,9,11,14,16,19,23 quote (3) 63:12 69:2 105:23 recovered (2) 117:11 119:18 ph003924 (1) 133:15 possession (1) 45:15 71:2,7,10,11 72:9,21 74:19 53:9,11 68:2,5,10,14 recruit (1) 137:11 ph003929 (1) 133:23 possibilities (1) 145:23 75:24 78:25 87:6,16,17 psychologists (1) 25:11 69:3,6,9,11,16,20,23 R red (2) 56:24 113:20 phone (6) 80:11,13,15,18,19 possibility (4) 89:1,6 116:12 88:2,3 99:6 102:20 105:8 pubic (2) 118:14,22 70:1,4,7,11,14,18,23 redaction (1) 67:14 108:6 138:9 109:19 110:2 138:18 public (4) 17:15 20:12 55:15 71:6,10,14,18,21,25 racial (1) 4:9 reduced (1) 64:16 photograph (6) 99:16 113:24 possible (3) 114:24 140:25 139:6,7 141:6 65:11 72:2,11,15,19 73:13,16,23 racially (1) 139:24 reduction (2) 37:21 60:22 114:13 130:15,21 132:7 141:1 prisoner (17) 20:11 22:19 publicly (1) 11:20 74:1,4,6,10,12,15,18,22 racism (1) 141:25 reengage (1) 78:4 photographed (1) 126:3 possibly (1) 121:7 29:21 30:20,24 31:3 puffer (1) 112:22 75:3,6,11,13,25 racist (3) 4:18 139:9 140:8 refer (6) 2:6 35:15 37:2 photographs (1) 100:22 post (1) 118:18 35:8,25 43:24 44:4 46:3 pull (1) 144:17 76:3,7,11,16,19 radar (1) 56:25 49:24 64:3 105:2 photos (4) 99:22 100:2,5,6 posted (1) 111:22 60:2,2,5 61:14 62:15,16 punishment (1) 25:3 77:1,4,8,13,16,20,25 radical (3) 13:17 21:8 26:3 reference (21) 9:6 35:7,19 phrase (1) 23:12 postrelease (2) 84:22 88:4 prisoners (31) 20:14,24 purchase (11) 82:14 78:5,8,10,14,18 radicalisation (6) 11:7 26:8 37:9 38:14,14 39:6 41:10 physical (1) 63:23 potential (6) 36:22 42:5 54:8 23:5,8,18 24:12 25:10 112:13,20 114:12 116:12 79:3,6,11,14,17,23 42:5 49:5 56:23 57:9 44:25 45:12 48:4,9,15 physically (1) 52:21 56:22 101:23 115:10 26:18 28:14,21,23 119:6,10 120:17,18 121:11 80:3,6,11,13,20,23 radicalise (3) 63:13,21 66:23 49:14 71:2 81:7 85:8 86:24 pick (3) 67:8 102:8 106:23 potentially (6) 24:14 27:23 30:13,14,16 33:20 34:3,24 126:24 81:5,7,10,22 radicalising (5) 7:3 8:22 91:8 97:23 134:4 picked (4) 7:8 106:19 34:16 120:21 145:9,10 40:19 41:1,11 47:23 48:24 purchased (18) 94:6 112:8 82:3,6,11,16,19,25 21:17 26:13 56:19 references (1) 39:12 128:7,10 poundstretcher (3) 49:6 51:2 59:13,17 61:4 113:1,20 114:17 115:22 83:6,9,15,18,21 radicals (1) 38:18 referral (1) 56:7 picture (1) 131:1 117:10,15 120:18 63:14 65:14 66:23 71:22 116:11,14,21 117:9,12 84:4,7,13,17,19,24 rahman (1) 10:8 referred (11) 14:16 28:19 pictured (4) 10:8 128:1,4,21 powell (4) 92:23 100:13 prisons (2) 19:19 21:9 118:9 119:2,13,19,20 85:4,7,12,16,19,22 raid (1) 141:9 29:14,19 46:2 53:5 55:15 piece (1) 144:7 104:23 109:13 private (1) 80:10 120:6 129:2 86:3,6,10,14,20,23 raids (1) 11:15 56:5 83:10 120:20 123:17 pieces (1) 21:16 power (2) 28:15 29:21 privately (1) 92:12 purchases (2) 111:19 120:21 87:4,8,10,14,18,23 railway (2) 88:23 122:6 referring (15) 21:7 22:23

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

27:8,14 43:1,18 45:1 46:9 reports (6) 7:19 21:7 33:14 130:3 131:8,9,11,20 short (7) 10:22 46:25 90:14 solitary (1) 97:5 states (1) 96:6 S 48:1,13 51:1 52:7 72:20 47:19 55:10,11 132:7,11,17 133:2,8 93:22 94:1 102:14 147:24 solution (1) 99:9 stating (1) 42:14

99:11 133:4 representing (2) 2:14 135:6 safe (2) 17:23 18:22 135:11,13,15 137:2,3,9,23 shorter (2) 124:19 147:3 somebody (6) 24:10 35:18 station (8) 97:16 121:25 refers (4) 13:16 20:18 59:13 reprimand (1) 4:15 same (21) 9:12 22:15 24:13 141:16 144:21,23,24 shortly (4) 23:25 24:3 34:22 44:2 46:12 136:15 143:1 122:4,6,8,15,24 123:25 98:2 reputation (3) 11:12,15,18 25:18,21 26:7 29:25 30:20 145:25 147:14 40:15 someone (2) 22:10 81:15 status (10) 35:8,11 37:12 reflect (1) 38:5 request (1) 25:17 31:7 35:23 36:7 44:20 seeing (5) 14:10 47:6 103:11 shorts (2) 94:1 98:24 something (7) 33:23 35:11 39:24 40:6 49:10,11 53:23 refusal (1) 44:22 requesting (1) 25:16 50:17 63:25 66:25 98:7 104:14 126:9 shot (1) 131:8 36:10 40:20 57:6 64:12 54:6 138:3 refused (2) 24:21 25:13 require (1) 1:12 104:5 106:22 119:1 130:24 seek (2) 83:14 89:19 should (7) 38:10 48:18 49:11 122:15 statusseeking (1) 138:25 refusing (1) 48:24 required (4) 55:25 75:15 146:15 seeking (3) 35:7 56:19 60:17 83:1 96:19 136:23 sometimes (2) 26:5 69:23 statute (1) 75:4 regard (1) 83:9 79:23 80:7 satisfied (3) 17:23 64:22 118:12 shoulder (1) 3:24 somewhere (1) 30:17 statutory (3) 55:25 76:11 regards (2) 6:3 15:11 requirement (6) 18:15 53:4 110:18 seemed (2) 28:16 108:3 shouldnt (1) 80:14 sondico (1) 116:22 82:19 regime (2) 36:10,11 74:7,10,12,15 satisfy (2) 18:16,21 seems (2) 56:25 65:18 shouting (2) 22:23 50:23 soon (3) 81:16 82:1 134:18 stay (6) 38:10 80:7 90:19 registered (1) 80:3 requirements (6) 3:20 74:1 saturdays (1) 96:6 seen (21) 23:18 25:15 28:16 shouts (1) 22:19 sophisticated (1) 14:4 96:22,24 98:13 regular (7) 51:18 56:2 57:15 75:3,7 86:8,10 saw (8) 24:25 25:2 39:9 35:11 50:13,14 52:24 53:3 show (10) 9:8,19 37:3 41:3 sort (11) 11:22 16:18 21:6 staying (1) 111:2 76:4,12 94:23 103:10 requiring (1) 35:10 85:25 90:4 92:13 111:19 54:2 56:16 64:23 69:24 50:14 125:5,20,21 129:9 28:17 34:2 35:19 36:14 step (2) 82:1 115:19 regularly (5) 61:3 62:18 resettlement (1) 66:1 113:24 70:7 77:13,20 88:1 89:23 136:2 38:7 55:11 75:21 132:5 stephenson (1) 96:1 77:13,20 78:2 reside (2) 74:12 96:21 saying (8) 2:12,21 10:9 24:21 95:6 104:8 129:8 135:21 showed (5) 64:6 85:13 sorts (3) 16:5 33:14 147:17 steps (4) 83:9,23 113:18 rehabilitate (1) 38:7 resolved (1) 122:21 26:16 46:12 49:4 65:1 sees (1) 26:5 101:16 110:9 119:16 sought (2) 25:1,18 119:9 rejected (1) 19:13 respectful (1) 49:21 scale (1) 84:14 segregated (1) 32:2 shower (1) 51:4 sour (1) 48:16 stick (1) 63:22 related (3) 63:18 66:24 response (1) 53:4 scene (1) 114:13 segregation (10) 24:22,24 showing (14) 37:10 110:4 source (1) 90:23 still (23) 18:19 25:14,24 26:3 91:11 responsibility (3) 7:14 58:3 scheduled (1) 97:10 25:2,3,16,19 31:23 32:5,8 112:15,20 114:12 115:25 speak (2) 108:12,17 27:3 28:6 42:9,21 58:20,24 relating (1) 45:16 64:10 school (16) 3:12,13,14,20,21 135:19 116:3 117:5 122:24 speaking (4) 25:25 39:7 60:8 60:21 68:6 94:9,22 99:6 relation (2) 30:9 104:19 responsible (5) 21:17 26:22 4:2,7,13 5:3,3,8,9,17,23 seized (1) 11:23 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53:6,10,16,19 route (4) 122:2 123:10 67:6,10 73:13,16 78:2 shaving (1) 118:22 smash (1) 24:21 114:20 129:16 suggesting (14) 21:16 26:7 55:3,5 56:11,15,23 59:3 125:5,6 80:23 81:1,11 88:3 90:6,8 shaw (1) 83:11 snitch (1) 60:2 started (4) 6:20 68:20 99:5 34:13 35:3,23 36:7,18 60:11 61:7,22 62:2 64:4,14 rows (1) 47:5 91:19 92:3 93:17 95:16,25 sheet (1) 85:13 so15 (1) 1:17 111:20 42:4,21 44:21 59:3 61:1 68:5 78:1 79:18 91:14 ruined (2) 11:15,17 98:18 103:23 104:6,10 shifted (1) 65:19 sock (1) 44:5 starts (1) 125:20 67:23 81:17 93:15 102:22 104:22 rules (3) 42:17 76:9,10 106:18 107:23 111:25 shining (1) 47:7 sofa (2) 132:8,11 stated (9) 5:2 36:19 60:7 suggestion (2) 52:2 106:3 111:14 121:15 run (3) 19:19 64:4,5 112:14,19 114:10 115:24 shop (6) 107:24,25 software (1) 87:21 81:14 94:9,18,22 99:23 suggestions (1) 135:21 reported (3) 22:18 29:22 running (1) 71:25 117:3,15 119:5 125:25 119:14,23 126:25 127:10 sold (4) 119:22,24 120:1 101:10 suggests (1) 59:25 48:20 runs (1) 71:18 126:13,18,23 127:6,18 shopping (1) 118:24 121:9 statement (2) 11:17 141:16 suicide (2) 61:15 116:16 reporting (2) 51:17 57:7 ruth (1) 81:12 128:13 129:11,11,19,22,24 shops (2) 110:9 127:19 solicitor (1) 100:1 statements (2) 140:12,16 suitably (1) 31:20

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

sum (1) 135:9 temporary (1) 17:21 134:3 135:20 136:25 50:9,15 55:23 61:3 63:22 type (2) 12:8 119:24 usmans (2) 81:20 141:20 wedding (1) 10:19 summarising (5) 31:24 55:8 tenancy (1) 91:20 137:10,15,16,22 138:15 64:1,8 66:11 87:6,19 89:24 typed (1) 55:4 wednesday (1) 148:4 66:4 75:6 121:4 tendencies (1) 4:18 139:10 140:5,14,17 142:4 90:9 100:10 101:2 102:23 typically (2) 8:9 20:23 V week (12) 25:2 77:17,17 summary (4) 26:16 30:4 tendency (1) 142:5 144:6 146:8,14 107:20 125:2 134:18 90:4 91:23 94:10 102:3,20 U variation (1) 18:9 70:21 72:3 tending (1) 66:13 theme (4) 24:24 26:5 39:9 toilet (4) 122:12 106:5 113:16 141:18 varied (2) 18:6,8 summer (1) 12:18 tends (1) 142:13 48:22 129:10,20,25 uk (7) 8:5 9:21 16:15,17 146:17 various (17) 15:14 summingup (2) 113:13 term (3) 4:10 17:20 18:19 themselves (2) 119:22 toilets (8) 118:4 122:9 17:6 90:11 108:21 weekly (3) 76:4 77:22 90:12 21:8,12,16 25:1 37:10 147:23 termed (1) 11:25 147:21 123:19,22,24 124:16,18,20 ultimately (1) 13:2 weeks (3) 77:23 79:19 95:2 44:14 59:13 79:20 87:21 sun (1) 47:7 terms (6) 2:12 19:12 78:18 thereafter (2) 18:1 77:18 told (31) 5:21 6:1,1 26:10 unable (2) 28:4 82:13 weighted (1) 44:5 88:14,19 103:18 111:10 sunday (5) 96:20 107:15 108:23 143:10 therefore (5) 18:15 28:17 28:9 32:7 39:15 42:23 unannounced (6) 93:11,21 weird (1) 103:5 112:5 132:12 133:20 103:7,11,20 104:14 terrorism (15) 9:1 10:2 12:3 41:20 134:16 142:16 44:11 57:15 69:3 71:18 98:9 100:17,18 126:2 welcome (1) 47:3 vary (1) 82:22 sunglasses (1) 114:6 13:3 14:22 16:5,15 18:3 theres (10) 23:17 42:21 73:9 77:25 79:3 92:7 95:17 uncharacteristically (1) went (13) 3:13 10:5 19:21 vast (2) 20:3 84:17 sunlight (1) 47:13 45:16 63:18 66:24 84:5 62:14 74:6,7 78:14 81:7 99:21 101:14 105:4 103:4 44:4 64:22 77:24 101:13 vastly (1) 62:4 supervise (2) 76:17,24 99:19 137:6,20 97:23 110:3 138:21 107:4,25 108:13,19,20,21 underarm (1) 118:14 112:12 120:5 124:14,16 vehicles (1) 89:12 supervised (2) 31:21 78:24 terrorist (23) 7:1,4 8:5 9:16 theyd (1) 61:15 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(8) 2:23 50:4 61:13,15 viewed (1) 96:23 susceptibility (1) 37:13 102:8,9 113:14 134:4,21 thousands (1) 71:19 total (1) 56:4 31:15,17,23 33:18,19 68:6 69:13 75:23 99:5 viewing (1) 43:23 suspect (5) 2:11,22 120:1 135:3,5,5 139:2 140:12 threat (1) 57:8 towards (6) 4:11 26:23 44:7 34:18,23 36:4 57:1,22 white (1) 4:10 views (8) 29:5,8,12 34:2,4 132:3 136:13 142:19 146:3,3,4,21 148:1 threatening (1) 26:18 53:19 129:19,22 71:15 76:22 whitemoor (9) 20:2,5 39:17 38:7 47:24 58:21 suspicion (1) 8:21 thats (310) 2:24 3:8,16 three (13) 13:5,6,8,9,10,16 town (1) 8:10 united (2) 3:5 73:23 40:16 41:7 43:5 44:11 87:6 vii (1) 73:23 suspicious (2) 114:6 127:1 4:6,15,24 5:14,20 6:11,20 14:3 20:14 33:11 107:5 traditions (1) 115:14 units (1) 31:25 93:2 violence (4) 13:20 21:13 swagger (1) 3:24 7:5,22 8:6,6,20 9:4 110:24 124:18 135:9 train (17) 97:12,16 unity (1) 68:9 whole (3) 55:9 59:22 104:14 35:16 44:20 swamp (1) 147:18 10:1,1,11,16,20 11:21 threequarters (1) 107:2 111:18,22 121:20,21 universal (1) 82:21 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23:4,12 25:19 118:24 124:18 126:2,20 tact (1) 46:3 30:12,21 31:1,9,12,16 121:18 139:21 147:5 transfer (3) 28:11 31:14 unofficial (1) 10:18 27:15,16 31:22 46:13 visited (10) 83:3 106:8 tag (7) 74:16 95:21 96:4,12 32:2,10,15,25 33:5,13,25 throughout (6) 20:9 21:10 39:24 unreliable (1) 55:11 48:16,20 51:3 56:24 115:20 116:20 101:16 110:4 121:24 34:21 35:5,21 36:9,21 24:25 32:17 39:11 130:5 transferred (3) 25:5 28:9 unsubstantiated (1) 55:7 59:17,18 63:13 71:16 119:1,14,16,25 122:12 taken (10) 28:3 58:16 87:16 38:3,19 39:9,14,22 thrown (1) 7:9 39:15 unsuccessful (2) 85:3 86:15 wiring (5) 126:1 100:2,5 125:6 130:10,15 41:4,8,14,25 42:18 thursday (2) 107:16 147:1 transformation (1) 68:19 until (6) 5:3 15:6 86:2,2 133:16,18,19,21,23 visiting (2) 115:10 125:16 133:20 147:4 43:1,6,13 44:6,17 45:7,15 ticked (1) 42:23 transition (1) 64:25 129:1 148:3 wish (3) 60:4 140:11 146:24 visits (9) 94:22 96:20 taking (7) 6:4 17:2 64:10 46:8,9,13,15 48:6,12,15 ticket (5) 101:3 translating (1) 40:8 untoward (2) 110:18,19 wished (1) 137:6 103:11,18,18,21 104:19 91:3 100:22 102:24 115:19 49:8 50:10,16,21 123:7,8,10,12 transported (1) 97:15 untrustworthy (1) 54:10 withdrawal (4) 115:6 125:22 129:10 talkative (1) 103:6 51:5,16,24 53:2,2,8,12 tickets (2) 111:18,22 travel (5) 12:14 73:23 90:23 unusual (1) 108:25 120:11,15,16 voice (2) 9:18 10:10 talked (6) 101:25 104:25 54:2,17 55:17 56:3,17 ticking (1) 41:2 123:3 125:2 unwilling (1) 7:12 withdrawals (1) 121:12 voluntarily (1) 84:5 108:15 139:6,13 142:20 57:17,20,25 58:14 tie (1) 117:25 travelled (1) 12:18 upbeat (1) 87:25 withdrawing (2) 128:14,16 59:1,5,16,19 60:10,15,23 tight (1) 116:23 travelling (2) 12:16 97:12 withdrew (3) 114:22 122:5 talking (7) 45:1 49:6 updated (1) 81:1 W 50:19,23 87:25 106:12 61:5,8,21,25 62:14,20 63:2 time (73) 3:19 4:2 6:3 9:3 trawl (2) 106:19,23 upon (3) 6:14 54:25 79:13 124:15 141:6 64:2,5 65:4,22 10:14 17:7 20:9 22:2 23:6 treated (1) 66:12 upper (2) 14:10 92:5 wait (1) 135:1 witness (4) 1:6 140:16 talks (1) 81:19 66:3,8,25,25 68:4,4,13 24:12,13 25:21 26:7 29:3 trespass (3) 115:20,23,25 upset (1) 100:22 waiting (1) 93:24 141:16 146:16 tape (16) 69:5,10,19,22 70:10,17 31:24 32:4,8,12 35:23 36:7 trex (2) 112:8 119:3 upside (1) 11:16 wakefield (3) 19:22 22:13 witnesses (9) 2:4,15 20:22 112:8,10,13,17,20,25 71:24 72:4 74:5,11,17,24 38:8 39:16,21 41:20 47:17 trial (1) 14:12 used (32) 4:10,23 25:10 23:5 53:18 67:21 78:14 89:23 117:24 119:3,4,7 125:22 75:5,10,12,18 76:2,6 49:9 50:5,17 53:13 58:16 tried (3) 44:17 66:22 109:13 27:23 29:7,8 41:12 53:13 walking (2) 111:4 128:21 97:25 147:5 126:22 127:16,17 129:16 77:12,19 78:12 79:22 80:5 60:12 62:17 64:24 65:2 tries (2) 63:13,21 65:18 68:21 71:7 89:12 wanting (1) 39:12 wolverhampton (1) 91:18 131:9 81:6,15,21 82:2,9,13,18 66:16 69:6 70:1 72:8 74:19 trimming (1) 115:12 105:7 112:10 113:1,22 wants (1) 35:20 woman (2) 10:15 25:22 taped (1) 31:9 83:5,8,17,25 84:6,9,16 77:23 78:2 79:24 83:18,18 trip (4) 97:18 98:1 99:1,2 114:18 117:24 118:6 warrant (1) 11:9 wont (2) 125:4 136:13 taqiyya (1) 40:20 85:15,21 86:11,19,21 84:10 85:23 88:2 93:22 trips (1) 96:5 119:4,13 120:17 128:18,18 warrants (2) 8:23 9:1 woodhill (6) 20:1,4,6 33:18 target (2) 36:22 63:16 87:3,9,13,22 88:7,12 94:7 102:6 103:9,23 104:3 trouble (1) 96:25 131:13,14 132:3,6 wasnt (11) 32:9 45:6 50:10 67:17 69:7 targets (1) 16:19 89:4,15 90:2,15 91:7,13,22 105:1,3,7 106:24 107:24 troubled (1) 109:3 133:10,19 134:1 147:24 58:23 76:23 79:9 91:7 wore (1) 114:6 tasked (1) 77:8 92:2,6,11,24 93:3,16 94:25 108:17,20 110:1 113:13 troublemaker (1) 4:17 useful (1) 52:16 99:21 101:15 105:4,6 work (25) 49:25 60:21 68:11 taxi (2) 97:14,16 95:23 96:3 97:3,7 115:4 119:25 121:19 truck (3) 88:22 89:2,7 using (3) 82:17 121:24 138:9 watched (2) 57:5 144:12 73:20,20 77:4 82:16 83:19 teacher (1) 3:18 99:11,13,20 100:4,15,20 122:11 123:24 124:19 true (9) 7:5 10:20 15:3 16:7 usman (76) 1:21 2:3 3:1 6:7 watching (3) 94:7 111:3 87:1 88:11,14 89:19 93:1,6 teachings (1) 6:21 101:8 103:1,13,22 126:9 127:14 137:4 144:20 20:25 32:9 62:20 103:13 7:20 8:14 10:4,7,14 11:23 144:10 99:4,6,10 101:7,20 105:12 team (25) 27:21 42:1 51:13 104:3,9,12,20,25 147:2 142:6 12:17 14:14,20 15:22 water (1) 129:20 106:12 107:9 109:7 111:8 65:4,5 70:25 77:1,4,14,21 105:14,21 106:6,10,21,25 timed (1) 106:24 trust (2) 83:11 99:24 17:13 40:19 46:13 waving (1) 8:15 141:12 83:22 87:15 93:10 96:10 107:11,19 108:8 109:8,21 times (10) 42:4 49:22 58:3 try (2) 26:23 119:12 47:17,23 49:21 51:10 60:1 wax (4) 117:13 118:9 121:1 worked (1) 76:21 98:9,20 103:15 110:14 110:17 111:1,12 72:23 76:10 77:16 94:10 trying (6) 15:24 51:3 67:8 61:23 70:8 71:3,18 131:17 worker (1) 76:4 119:12 125:14 126:1,20 112:2,15,18 113:22,24 108:7 110:20 139:11 99:9 105:12 132:3 76:12,13 78:19 80:21 way (19) 2:13 20:10 23:19 workers (1) 88:24 129:4 139:17 140:12 114:2,14 115:22 117:1 timetable (2) 16:19 146:25 tshirt (2) 94:1 98:24 81:2,13 83:1 85:9,22 88:13 40:4 48:11 50:21 82:11,19 working (2) 62:10 92:22 teenage (2) 3:24 5:18 118:8 119:1,8 120:1,25 timetables (1) 17:7 tsp (2) 38:2,4 89:1 90:11,21 91:16 92:19 108:25 109:4,16 123:3 works (2) 60:3 88:9 teenager (1) 29:14 121:10,18 122:18 timing (2) 122:19 146:19 tube (1) 125:6 93:20,22 96:5,10,16 128:13 130:14 134:9 world (3) 10:9 45:3 144:2 teens (1) 6:19 123:1,5,14,16,22 124:25 timings (3) 103:17,20 123:18 tuesday (2) 1:1 105:9 97:4,10,20 98:10,22,23 138:17,20 140:8 147:8 worn (1) 116:16 telephone (4) 25:24 69:14 125:8,18 126:4,20 tk (2) 113:21 114:10 tui (2) 68:8 79:7 101:24 102:19,23 ways (5) 2:16 63:17 66:24 worse (1) 3:22 70:12 115:1 127:11,14 128:3,15,20,23 today (8) 1:20 2:22 53:3 turn (3) 109:16 120:3 121:14 103:3,7,20,25 104:7,13 67:24 88:14 worth (1) 21:6 television (2) 36:15 132:8 129:7 130:6,12,17 135:10 144:7 146:10,12 turned (3) 11:15 45:11 91:20 106:8 112:22,25 116:1 weapon (2) 22:9 31:11 wouldnt (3) 28:5 36:13 televisions (1) 36:13 131:3,7,10,18,18,25 147:3 turning (5) 19:17 60:11 118:20 120:3 121:14,17,24 wear (3) 23:6 26:17 74:15 144:15 telling (2) 40:23 51:10 132:19,22 todays (1) 1:6 76:11 125:13 144:9 123:2 125:7,10 126:1 wearing (6) 61:15 93:25 wrap (3) 117:25 119:4 tells (1) 63:21 133:1,6,12,14,17,25,25 together (21) 9:7 10:21 32:7 twominute (1) 22:24 129:19,24 112:22 116:23,24 118:3 131:13

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900 April 27, 2021 Fishmongers Hall Inquests Day 11

writer (1) 52:12 12 (11) 3:15,16,18 27:18 2021 (2) 1:1 148:4 482 (1) 91:14 writing (4) 26:1 50:14 68:20 50:18 56:3 64:23 87:8 2031 (1) 145:5 49 (1) 55:2 87:22 98:23 129:16 145:9 21 (7) 14:7 18:11 30:19 31:7 4999 (1) 116:9 written (2) 24:6 62:24 1200 (1) 98:15 51:10 101:5,18 wrong (9) 9:6 32:19 37:9 1213 (1) 5:5 2122 (1) 108:11 5 38:13 49:14 86:24 100:24 1228 (1) 40:13 2125 (1) 45:9 109:4 123:9 1245 (1) 129:1 21year (1) 19:4 5 (4) 14:21 15:10 66:16 wrote (1) 110:15 13 (5) 4:6 20:5 52:8 117:14 22 (5) 73:12 90:7 102:21 95:16 ws50553 (1) 141:18 137:9 113:16 126:24 51 (1) 37:8 ws50592a1 (1) 10:4 1312 (1) 115:22 23 (2) 48:9 80:24 510 (2) 112:11 115:18 ws50592a10 (1) 10:5 1336 (1) 116:20 24 (9) 11:22 41:6 49:4 511 (1) 116:18 135 (1) 149:6 59:22,24 60:25 69:9 91:24 512 (1) 117:7 X 1354 (1) 117:9 103:7 513 (1) 118:23 14 (14) 23:3 33:23 95:13 24th (1) 145:1 515 (1) 119:7 x (1) 74:1 98:6,23 106:11 116:22 25 (1) 104:22 516 (1) 121:19 xbox (6) 82:12 94:6 99:14 125:25 126:5,5,6,21 26 (5) 12:9 105:9 106:20 518 (1) 122:14 100:5 133:21 134:1 141:18 144:21 127:17 144:25 519 (1) 123:6 xii (1) 74:4 14th (1) 100:23 27 (5) 1:1 15:4 24:1 126:22 522 (1) 124:8 xx (1) 74:6 15 (8) 13:25 14:14 42:8 145:5 523 (1) 124:22 xxi (1) 74:12 48:24 62:23 111:18,22 28 (5) 43:18,19 107:16 525 (1) 112:12 xxii (1) 74:15 120:14 127:20 148:4 53 (1) 37:11 1564 (1) 34:25 28th (2) 112:4 119:21 55 (1) 112:6 Y 16 (4) 3:17 17:17 18:12 50:7 29 (5) 1:22 63:9 67:2 97:11 56 (1) 113:15 1606 (1) 127:12 121:17 58 (1) 114:15 yard (2) 30:12 48:1 1613 (1) 127:13 29133 (1) 82:22 year (8) 3:18,18 4:6 5:4 27:4 17 (4) 30:15 91:21 137:17,22 29th (1) 116:25 6 51:7 63:19 69:1 1715 (1) 119:2 years (24) 4:6 5:18 7:20 1718 (1) 112:9 3 6 (5) 10:13 22:16,17 57:7 10:23 17:17,20 18 (5) 5:22 24:20 35:2 81:10 18:1,4,11,12,13,14,19,24 3 (4) 14:24 15:21 39:2 137:2 100:13 121:23 19:20 39:20 41:16,19 72:8 30 (6) 18:4 26:13 46:7 75:11 7 19 (4) 15:19 100:16 138:5,14 75:11 79:1 138:14 139:6 122:5 124:15 1959 (1) 50:25 145:9 31 (1) 93:9 7 (1) 11:4 1991 (1) 3:4 yellow (2) 127:5 128:8 313 (1) 27:17 700 (6) 74:8,8 85:25 86:1,2,4 1day (2) 90:17,20 yemeniamerican (1) 6:23 318 (1) 148:2 71 (1) 37:19 yet (2) 41:8 144:5 2 31st (1) 93:18 718 (1) 122:5 young (4) 10:15 25:22 68:24 321 (1) 30:10 723 (1) 122:12 2 (6) 3:2 5:11 10:8 36:18 107:9 323 (1) 30:10 725 (1) 122:12 44:25 66:9 younger (1) 68:22 324 (1) 31:13 733 (1) 122:20 20 (7) 47:22 51:1 68:5 112:7 youngest (1) 3:9 327 (1) 33:22 739 (1) 121:21 114:22 125:23 128:16 youre (1) 145:8 328 (1) 34:21 742 (1) 22:15 200 (1) 71:25 youth (1) 4:15 334 (1) 38:15 744 (2) 122:23,25 2000 (4) 21:6 49:3 71:20 youve (15) 26:10 28:9 37:1 335 (1) 39:23 79 (1) 116:21 82:5 39:15 47:12 71:18 73:9 338 (1) 41:22 2004 (2) 4:5,5 77:25 92:7 111:6 119:9 344 (2) 45:9,14 8 2008 (3) 7:21 8:25 11:24 121:16 123:17 124:3 347 (1) 50:7 2009 (2) 7:6,16 129:12 36 (1) 126:22 8 (5) 4:6 12:9 22:6 84:10 2010 (8) 7:21 10:14 12:9,18 yusuf (1) 70:5 360 (1) 94:6 104:7 14:2,14 15:4 22:3 366 (2) 55:14 56:6 811 (1) 123:8 2011 (6) 22:3,6,13,16,17,22 Z 367 (1) 58:15 812 (1) 53:20 2012 (10) 17:14,14,25 19:23 368 (1) 58:15 813 (1) 54:3 23:3,10 24:1,20 25:5 50:22 zeroingin (1) 22:5 37 (1) 127:17 814 (1) 54:22 2013 (13) 18:8 19:24 ziamani (2) 61:2,9 370 (1) 60:11 820 (1) 104:7 26:11,13,21 27:13 28:10 373 (1) 64:3 847 (1) 123:20 29:3,18 30:2,19 31:7 71:8 0 375 (1) 64:14 854 (1) 123:21 2014 (8) 10:25 19:25 31:15 377 (1) 64:7 32:12 33:17,17,24 34:11 0930 (1) 93:18 383 (1) 68:5 9 2015 (7) 33:24 34:18 35:2,13 389 (1) 69:11 1 36:3,18,24 9 (4) 5:4 13:15 14:19 15:23 2016 (8) 20:2 37:6 38:8,22 4 900 (3) 86:2,2,4 1 (4) 5:11 49:15 149:4,5 39:2,15 40:15 41:6 908 (1) 124:10 10 (4) 3:4 33:20 100:17 2017 (22) 41:15 42:8 43:4,18 4 (5) 6:16 68:14 80:25 91 (1) 32:16 146:21 44:25 45:10,21 46:7 99:18,19 915 (1) 124:16 100 (3) 20:23 102:13 105:24 47:20,22 48:9,24 49:4,9,18 40 (1) 106:7 918 (1) 124:17 1000 (2) 1:2 148:3 50:8,18 51:1,7,10 52:8 406 (1) 127:12 92 (2) 33:6 65:7 1023 (1) 127:24 70:21 41 (1) 49:17 936 (1) 124:14 1025 (2) 108:9,10 2018 (32) 15:7 20:5 50:15 4110 (1) 98:6 952 (1) 106:20 1030 (1) 128:2 53:7,11 55:14 56:7,9 58:4 4117 (1) 100:16 1031 (3) 103:23,23 104:3 59:7,12,19,22,24 4118 (1) 101:5 1032 (1) 128:5 60:12,17,24 61:22 62:23 4122 (1) 102:22 1035 (1) 128:17 63:9,25 66:16,19 67:2 4123 (1) 104:22 1036 (2) 114:22 115:6 68:6,14 69:4,7 70:21 78:8 4125 (1) 105:10 1038 (1) 128:21 144:21,25 4127 (1) 106:7 1039 (2) 106:24 128:21 2019 (51) 29:19 78:8,11 413 (1) 78:1 11 (8) 10:5 21:1 27:13 98:16 79:3,17 80:20,24 81:24 4132 (1) 108:5 117:2 125:23 126:17 82:7,23 83:1,21 415 (1) 79:18 129:16 84:10,21,25 85:9,17,24 42 (2) 49:20 111:14 110 (1) 6:16 86:7 87:2,8 89:23 90:1,7 421 (1) 82:3 1109 (2) 115:5,8 91:4,10,15,16 92:8,19 43 (1) 75:16 1115 (1) 46:17 93:5,9,18 95:10,13 97:11 44 (2) 76:7 121:15 1116 (1) 46:24 98:5,23 101:18 102:21 444 (1) 84:24 112 (1) 7:17 103:7 104:22 105:9 110:21 446 (1) 85:7 113 (1) 7:17 111:7 112:7 113:16 121:17 447 (1) 85:22 1138 (1) 47:1 125:25 126:24 127:20 459 (1) 87:10 1147 (2) 98:14 126:10 202 (1) 102:15 463 (1) 87:23 1148 (1) 126:16 2020 (4) 61:19 90:15 97:23 465 (1) 88:17 1159 (1) 126:18 102:2 48 (1) 134:13

Opus 2 [email protected] Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900