'6144 OO~GRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 17, study, the leading cla ses are opposed t.o what is c!l'lled t~e protective A bill (S. No. 1942) granting condemned cannon to Abe Lincoln school of politic . They honestly believe as agncnltunsts that free Post No. 29 of the Grand Army of the Republic, at Council Bluits, trade will be better for them. I do not think so, and if my friend Iowa, for monumental purposes. from Indiana expects to carry out the Coleman letter of General A bill (S. No. 2050) donating four condemned cast-iron cannon J" ackson-and General. Jackson undoubtedly was a protectionist in and four cast-iron cannon-balls for the soldiers' monument at hon­ a. moderate way-if he expects the Democratic party to carry out ton, Ohio; and those ideas he will be mistaken. He will have to fall back after all A bill (S. No. 2057) gmnting condemned cannon, &c., to the city upon that party which believes that it is best for the farmer, best of Marshalltown, Iowa. for the cotton-grower, best for all classes of citizens that our indus­ HOUSE BILLS REFERRED. tries shall be diversified, by wise protective1aws; that wherever a The bill (H. R. No. 1858) to provide additional industrial train­ trade, an occupation, a manufacture can with a reasonable prospect ing schools for Indian youth and authorizin" the use of unoccupied be built up with theaidof omeassistancefrom the tarifflaws, that military barracks for such purpose was read twice by' its title, :mel assistance should promptly be given. referred to the Committee on Indian Affairs. And, sir, I say to him that I am in favor of protection, bnt not to The bill (H. R. No. 4443) to amend sections 3 and 4 of the act of the capitalist. The capitalist is able to take care of himself. There February 21, 1879, to fix the pay of letter-carriers, and for other was a time when it was the interest of this country to build up cap­ purposes, was read twice by its title, and referred to the Commit­ ital and induce capital to be invested in machinery and to start tee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads. factories; but the growth of wealth in this great country of ours has been so rapid that already there is more surplus wealth here EXECUTIVE SESSION. than in almost any country in the world. It is no longer necessary Mr. MORRILL. I renew my motion. . to protect the capitalists; but we must protect labor. The people The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is moved that the Senate pro­ of this country never will and never can be made to compete with ceed to the consideration of executive business. the labor of European countries. They are not accustomed to the The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the con­ hard usa(J'e and hard fare. They will not do with the food and care sideration of executive business. After forty-nine minutes spent in and nurt~e and housing of the laborer of Europe. It is for that executive session the doors were reopened, and (at six o'clock and reason that the laborer of Europe, whenever he can, comes here to twenty-fiv-e ininutes p.m.) the Senate adjourned. share our bl~ssings. The ouject of these protective laws, if wisely administered, wisely earried out, is to protect the laboring-men, to give them opportuni­ ties to educate their children, to give them a comfortable home, a comfortable housing, good clothing, and fair wages, and enable HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. them to mn,ke their way in life. Thus it is and by means of agencies MONDAY, J1.tly 17, 1882. like these that we find the richest men in this country to-day were the laborers of only a few years ago. In every city o~ the country The House met at eleven o'clock a. m. Prayer by the Chaplain, you will find the men who now are called the cap1tahsts were the Rev.F.D.POWER,D.D. iaboring-men who labored with their own hands in honest toil, and The Journal of the proceedings of Saturday last was read and probably laid the foundation of their fortunes in that labor. approved. I uo not want to go further into this subject except to say that I PERSO:NAL EXPLA...~ATION. trust the Senate will regard this as an opportunity of doing a great :Mr. McLANE. Mr. Speaker, I desire t o trespass upon the atten­ O'OOd to the people of the United States; that we ought to confine tion of the House for a few moments. On last Saturday I was not the opemtions of this bill to such a reduction of taxes as will render present in the House, being detained by indispotiition. \Vhen the the greatest possible service. I. do not, for one, l?eli~v-e that t~ba~co item in the river and harbor bill appropriating $20,000 for the sur­ is deserving of an;v more reduction of taxes than IS g en by this b1ll, vey of the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal was under considera­ to the amount of $7,000,000 or $8,000,000. If you reduce the tobacco tion, the honorable chairman of the Uommittee on Commerce [.Mr. tax $13 000,000 more, as is now proposed-the tax on manufactured PAGE] stated that if I were present I would no doubt agree with tobaQc~ yields $26,000,000, a~d if you take ~13,000,00q off that, you tho committee to non-concur. disable your elves from making those necessary reductwns and mod­ I want to confirm that statement, and to say in explanation that ifications in the tariff laws when the time shall come when we can this was the course agreed upon by the committee with reference to properly and fairly deal with that question. all the amendments of the Senate without re~ard to their merits. I say, "let well enough ~lo?-e;" let us do what. go?d we can now, We deemed this the best method of dealing witn the bill and bring­ with the assurance that w1thm one year from th1s time we may be ing all its items to the attention of the committee of conference. able, or shall have the opportunity at least, to correl!t any other in­ Therefore, the conclusion which was drawn by more than one hon­ congruities ln the tariff laws or make any reduction that is then in orable gentleman on this side of the House that there was 1 obody our power to do. here to defend the item was altogether unwarranted. Not only was On the question of the sugar reduction I may h~ve occasi?n, wh.en this conclusion uuwan-anted, but so far as I am personally concerned the subject comes up properly, and when that subJect alone IS consid­ I desire to say to at least one of those honorable gentlemen, my frienu ered, to say something further auout the amendment proposed by from Kentucky, [Mr. CARLISLE, ] that I have not only advocated the the Committee on Finance. proposition with reference to the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal, Mr. MORRILL. I understand there is a necessity for an executive whieh was contained also in the last river and harbor bill, but I e-_qgion. I therefore move that the Senate proceed to the considera­ have been a supporter of the proposition to purchase for the Govern­ tion of executive busine s. ment and dedicate to the commerce of the country the LouisTille and The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. Will the Senator wHhdraw that Portland Canal. At the unanimous request, as I supposed, of the motion for a moment Y Kentucky delegation of the last Congress and in this, I have voted to Mr. MORRILL. Yes, sir. put that canal in the po session of the Government and make it a free TELEGRAPHIC CO~iMUl\"""CATIOX WITl'l EUROPE. canal, regarding that as one of the wisest measures that could be adopted by the Government. So far as the principle is concerned, I The PRESIDENT P'I'O temp01·e. The Chair lays before tho Senate for one am fully committed to it, not onlywitll reference to that and :the bill (S. No. 2084) to encourage and promote telegraphic commu­ other Western canals, hut also to tho Delaware aucl Chesapeake nication between America and Europe, returned from the House of Canal, as wise measures for facilitating commerce. Repre~entatives with an amendment. MESSAGE FRO::U: THE SESATE. The amendment of the House of Representatives was read, being in section 1, line 9, after the word "amalgamn,tion," to insert "com­ A message from the Senate, by Mr. Smso~, one of its clerks, an­ bination to establish rates." nounced that the Senate had concurred in the amendment of the Mr. WINDOM. I ask that the Senate concur in the House amend­ House to the bill (S. No. 1068) for the relief of certain citizens of ment. I am sure there will be no objection. It simply prevents Tennessee. combinations with other companies. The message also announced that the Senate had passed without The amendm nt was concurred in. amendment the joint resolution (H. R. No. 174) for printing tho report of the Life-Saving Service. E~ROLLED BILLS SIGNED. The messag~ also announced that the Senate had passed with A message from the House of Representatives, by Mr. McPHERSO~, amendments, in which the concutrence of the House was requested, its Clerk, announced that the Speaker of the Honse had signed the the bill (H. R. No. 6514) makin& appropriations for the payment of following enrolled bills; and they were thereupon signed by the Prcs­ invalid and other pensions of tne United States for tho fiscal year ident pro ternpo1·e : enclin"0 June 30, 1883, and for other purposes. A bill (S. No. 604) gr::mtjng a pension to Margaret Beymer; The message further announced that the Senate bad insis1 ed on its A bill (S. No. 984) increasing the pension of' Emma H. Collins· amendments disagreed to by the House to t.ho bill (H. R. No. 6242) A bill (S. No. 1040) granting a pensjon to Theodore Rauthe; making appropriations for the construction, repair, and preserva­ A bill (S. No. 1068) for the relief of certain citizens of Tenue see ; tion of certain works on rivers and harbors, and for other purposes; A bill (S. No. 1:201) granting a pension to Jacob Nix; askecl a conference with the House on the disagreeing votes of the .A bill (S. No. 1886) donating four condemned cast-iron cannon for two Houses, and had appointed as confe~~ees on the part of 11he Senate ;the soldiers' monument at the village of East Bloomfield, New York; :Mr. 1\It:;~liLLAN, Mr. Jo~ms of Nev-ada, and Mr. RA..."\SOM.

, r ( 1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6145

PERSONAL EXPL..L.~ATIO~. Mr. ATKlliS. Does not ice that to-day a certain matter will be 1\Ir. H EWITT, of New York. Mr. Speaker, I rise to a question of called up to-morrow take precec.lence under the rules of the House T p arliamentary and personal privilege. I regret to do so in the ab­ Tho SPEAKER. Thatnoticeisrequired by therules oftheiiouse. It cannot be con iaered to-day. · se nc c o~the gentleman from New Jersey, [Mr. ROBESO~,] but I have no ch01cc. Mr. _RANDALL. I suggest to the gentleman to let it go to the . The SPEAKER Does the gentleman rise to a personal explana­ Committee on Rules . t iOn. :M:r. HOLMAN. I demand the regular order ofbusiness. Mr. HE WITT of New York. I rose to a question of personal and _Mr. POUND. I do not offer the resolution now, but giv~ notice I parliamentary privilege concerning the integrity of the records of will do so to-morrow. the llouse. · Mr. McMILLIN. Let us have the regular order of business. It will he remembered that the debate on the naval appropriation Mr. POUND. I have given notice in conformity with the rules of bill was clo ed by the gentleman from New Jersey on the 6th of July. the House that I will call it up to-morrow, and in the moan time I His speech did not appear in the RECORD until the 11th. At that ask that it be printed in the RECORD. t ime I was at home sick, and only saw the RECORD on the 13th. I Mr. BLACKBURN. I wish to know whether this motion to chan{J'e the rules or to adopt a new rule must not go to the Committee at once r eturneu to Washington, and came to the H~use on Satur­ gn day for the purpo e of calling attention to the matter to which I Rules for consideration shall now request the consideration of the House. The gentleman Mr. POUND. That question will arise to-morrow when this is from New J ersey wa not then in his seat. I have therefore waited before the House. until to-day. To-day again he is not in his seat. This afternoon I The SPEAKER. Under the rules all matters relating to a change of the rules when referred must be referred to that committee. am c~mpclled to leave the city, in order to meet my family, who have JU t returned from Europe, and who have now landed in New The rules al o provide that upon one day's notice a change of rules York. I will therefore for bear to make any comments whatever n pon may be moved. the nature of tlie matter which I wish to submit to the House. ~ · RLAC~UR..~. "May be moved," but does that do away On the 11th of July there appeared in the RECORD the speech of w1th the requiTement of the rules that it shall be referred to the the honorable gentleman from New Jer ey, in which I find the-par­ Committee on Rules for consideration' agraph I desire to have the Clerk read. Mr. POUND. I submit that question is not before the House for The Clerk wa proceeding to read, when ' consideration at this time. 1\Ir. BURROWS, of J\fichigan, (interrupting,) said: I sug{J'est to The SPEAKER. The Chair has given no particular consideration -qte gentleman from New Yor~ [Mr. HE~ITTl whether the p~oprie­ to tills question. 1 tws of the case would not dwtate to him that he wait a few mo­ l\fr. BLACKBURN. I wish to call the Chair's attention to it and ments. The gentleman from New Jersey is now in the building and shall a '1 k him to rule at the proper time. ' has been sent for. The SPEAKER. It does not arise at this time, but the Chair pre­ Mr. HEWITT, of New York. I will gladly wait. I myself sent fers it shoulc.l go to the Committee on Rules. Mr. RANDALL. It will expedite business to send it to the Com­ for him, and I was told that he was not in Was'hin0{J' ton. Mr. O'NEILL. He has just arrived. mittee on Rule . Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Then I prefer to defer the matter The SPEAKER. Doe the gentleman consent to its reference to with the consent of the House, until the gentleman- from New J er: the Committee on Rules f sey i present. J\Ir. PO TTh"'D. I desire to proceed in my" own way in this matter and then the House can decide. ' A..'\fE.XDMEXT OF RULES-QP.DER OF IlUSDi.ESS. Mr. O'NEILL. I _desire to proceed in my own way, and shall a k Mr. POUND. Mr. Speaker, in order to enable this House, during to take up Senate bill No. 297, which is unobjectionable to members­ Mr. COX,ofNewYork. Letushavetheremmi.ttee had exammed and found truly enrolled bills of Mr. HOLMAN. That is not in order, I belie.-e. the folloWin

GEORGE B. :ROWAN. D."TEROCEA.NIC CANAL. Mr. STEELE also introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6764) for the relief 1\fr. ROBINSON, of New York, also submitted the following reso­ ofGeorgeD. Rowan; which wasreadafust andsecond time, referred lution of inquiry; "\Yhich wa read and referred to the Committeo on to the Committee on Invn1id Pensions, and ordered to be printed. Foreign A...ffairs : Resolved, That the Secretary of State, in view of the prt>sent political disturb­ W. E. KEENE. ances in Egypt and one of its most recent results, namely, the closure of the Suez :Mr. BURROWS, of Michigan, introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6765) Canal to naVIgation and the re!>ulting injury to the commerce of the world. and for the relief of \V. E. Keene; which was read a first and second tbe po ible recurrence of such an event if national public works be carried out under the assistance and superintendence of European powers on the soil of the time, referred to tho Committee on :Military Affairs, and ordered to si ter republics of this continent, is hereby directed to inform this Hou e if th& be printed. State Department has any information to communicate with regard to the pro­ DEPARTMENT OF THE POTOMAC, G. A.. R. P'e toward construction of t.he interoceanic canal aero s the isthmus of tb United tates of Colombia, and whether it be not ad vi able at this time that this. Mr. WILLITS introduced a. joint resolution (H. R. No. 258) author­ country should rea ert it intention to be governeu by the principle of nou­ iaing the Secretaries of War and Navy to donate condemned ordnance allowance of the intervention of European go,ernments in public affairs on this. stores to the Grand Army of the Republic of the Department of the continent. AMERICA...~ ~A. VAL :FORCES AT A.LEXA}."'DRIA. Potomac; which was read a first and second time1 referred to the Committee on :Uilita.ry Affairs, anu ordered to be prmted. 1\fr. ROBINSON, of New York, also submitted the followin.,. reo­ lution of in qnil·y; which wa read and referred to the Committee on FRANCIS KEA.P..NEY. Foreign .A..tfairs : Mr. STRAIT introcluced a bill (H. R. No. 6766) granting a pension Resolved, That the Secretary of the Navy is hereby instructed to communicata to I<'ran cis Kearney; which was read a :first and second time, referred to this House any correspondence with or instructiou to Commodore Nichol­ to tho Committee oninvalid Pensions, and orderecl to be printed. son relative_ to his. extra?rdina.ry threat to open fire ~rpou the cit.\" of Alexandria. under certam contingenme ; and also to inform the House whether he has been ME::\IPIDS AND NEW ORLEANS RAILROAD A.~"'D LEVEE COMPANY. informed that American ailors and officers are performing police duty in the city of .Alexandria under the British .Admiral, and if so, by what authority. Mr. LYNCH introduce~ a bill (H. R. No. 6767) to facilitate the construction of the Memphis and New Orleans Railroad and Levee, . I H::\IA.EL JO~"ES . to regulate commerce, and to promote and protect the postal service; ~Ir. PRESCOTT introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6771) grantin~ a pen­ which was read a :fir t and second time, referred to the Committee sion to Ishmael J one ; which was read a first and second t1me, re­ on Pacific Railroad , and ordered to be printed. ferred to the Committ on Invalid Pen~:~ion ·, and ordered to be FRANCES A. ROBINSON. printed. Mr. VAN HORN introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6768) for the relief IUCHA.RD D. BREWER. of Frances .A.. Robinson, administratrix; which was read a first and Mr. RICE, of Ohio, introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6772) to remove second time, referred to the Committee on Claims, and ordered to be the charge of desertion from the military record of Richard D. Brewer~ printed. which was read a first and econd time, referred to the Committee on l\filitary A..ffairs, and ordered to be printed. OYSTER PLA.J.,"'TERS, RICHMOND COUNTY, NEW YORK. Mr. BELMONT (by request) introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6i69) for ROWE~A. A.. llOL)IE . the relief of oyster planters in the county of Richmond and State of Mr. HULTZ introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6773) granting a pen­ New York; which was read a :first and second time, referred to the sion to Rowena A. Holme ; which was rea.d a fir t and second timer Committee ou Cla.ims, and ordered to be printed. referred to the Committee on Invalid Pension , and ordered to be printed. AMERICA...~ CITIZE~S D1PRlSO~"ED ABROAD. CARRIAGE, ETC., OF DA....~GEROUS ARTICLES. :Mr. COX, of New York, submitted the following resolution of in­ quiry; which wa read, and referred to the Committee on Foreign Mr. TO-wNSEND, of Ohio, introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6774} to amend section 4472 of the Revi ed Statues relating to the carriage Affairs: and use as stores of certain dangerous articles; which was read a ReJ;olved, That this House earnestly request the Pre ident to in ist on the release of the remaining Americau citizens. imprisoned by the British Government under first and second time, referred to the Committee on Commerce, aud a. suspension oflaw in Ireland, and especially the case of D. McSweeney, of Cali­ ordered to be printed. fornia, confined for more than thirteen months, without charge, trial, or couvic­ PIIILIP DE~~'"ICK . tion, whose innocence of cr1me is pro~·en by the fact that the British GQvernment offered him freedom on condition of returning home immediately. ~Ir. GEDDES introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6775) granting a pen­ sion to Philip Dennick; which was read a :fir t and second time, re­ Mr. ROBINSON, ofNew York. Mr. Speaker, I de ire to present a ferred to the Committee on Invalid Pensions, and ordered to be resolution of inquiry upon the same subject, which, however, is printed. wider and broader in its scope than that introduced by my colleague, who has just given me notice of his intention to offer the resolution CHOOL OF liEDICA.L PRACTICE. which he has submitted. 1\Ir. O'NEILL introduced ajointre olution (H. R. No. 259) relativeo The SPEAKER. The re olution will be read. to schools of medical practice in the United States, and the grad­ The Clerk read as follows : uates thereof; which wa read a :first and second time, referred to­ Resolved, That the President of the United States is hereby respectfully, but the Committee on the Judiciary, and ordered to be printed. ur~ently, requested to inform this House when itmayexpectananswertoitsre o­ lution of .June 18, now twenty days ago, adopt.ed unanimously, cal.J.ing for any ad­ A.FE DELIVERY OF LETTERS. ditional information not heretofore communicated to Congress relative to our citi­ 1\Ir. O'NEILL also introduced a joint resolution (H. R. No. 260) to­ zens still su1fering unjust imprisonment in British jails; and wht>ther any propo- ition has been made to any American citizen to accept their release upon condi­ better ecure the safe delivery of letters from foreign countries, and tious, and whether he has yet made the demand which this House unanimously also that of letters of domefStic origin; which was read a firBt and Tequested him to make forthwith on said 28th day of .June, 1882, and to report all second time, referred to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post­ the facts and proceedings as soon a~ practicable, in compliance with the imperative Road , and ordered to be printed. provisions of the law of .July 27, 1868; and whether any correspondence has taken place with .Tames Russell Lowell, nominally our minister to Great B::-itain, bu.t DONATIO~ OF CO~DEMNED CANNON. really doing police dut.y aud detect.ive work under Lord Granville in discovering imperfections in certificates of American citizenship, eveu when certified under Mr. SHALLENBERGER introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6776) granting seal of our courts and State Department, relative to his resi~ation or recall, as condemned cannon and cannon-balls to Post No. 208, Grand Army of" Teque ted by numerous petitions and resolutions presented to this House fro)ll the the Republic, at New Brighton, Pennsylvania, for monumental pur­ principal cities and States of the Union. po es; which was read a first and second time, referred to the Com­ The resolution wa-s referred to the Committee on· Foreign A...ffairs. mittee on Military A...ffair , and ordere~ to be printed.

NORTH CAPITOL IIORSE RAILROAD. JOH...~ G. ORR. Mr. ROBINSON, of New York, (by request,) introduced a bm (H. :l\1r. CURTIN introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6777) to amend the mil-· R. No. 6770) to incorporate the North Capitol and Glen wood Cemetery itary record of John G. Orr; which was read a first and second time, Horse Railro:.td Company; which was 1·ead a :first and second time, referred to the Committee on Military Affairs, and ordered to be· referred to the Committee on the District of Columbia, and ordered printed. to be printed. OPHIA. GUMP. AMERICAN CITIZENS IN B.RITISH PRISONS. Mr. CAMPBELL introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6778) granting a pen-­ Mr. ROBINSON, of New York, also submitted the following reso­ sion to Sophia Gump j which was read a :first and second time, re­ lution ofinqu.iJ:y; which was read and referred to the Commit-tee on feiTed to the Conmuttee em Invalid Pensions, and ordered to be Foreign .A.:ffa.irs: printed. Resolved, That the Secretary of State is hereby directed to inform this House DONATION OF CONDE::\INED C~ON1 ETC. whether he cannot now communicate tho telegrams relating to our citizens in British prisons, the publication of which wa~ thought to be incompatible with the 1\lr. WALKER introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6779) donating con­ 1 demned cannon and other munitions of war to G. H. Bru·nes Post­ E:~~h~~!b;~rU:C~ar::s~m~:;i~~~~~~~fe:s~~e~~!~E~~e~c:~~~! th~ No. 175, Grand Army of the Republic, Department of Pennsylvania.; these citizens by mail or cable, not hitberto communicated, which, even if t~eir publication ma.y be deemed incompatible with tlie public interest, may be CQnsid­ which was read a first and secoml time, referred to the Committe& ..ered in secret session of this House or of its Committ-ee on Foreign Affairs. on Military A...tfairs, and ordered to be printed . 1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6147

J. F. M. LEWI . of State of Louisiana; which was read a :first and second time, Mr. PETTIBONE introduced a hill (H. R.1{ o. 6780) restoring J. F. referred to the Committee on War Claims, and ordered to be printed. 1ti. Lewis to the pension-roll; which was reaVERMONT. 6797) to regulate the manufacture of vinegar made from grain; which Mr. TYLER introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6788) making an appro­ was read a first ancl second time, referred to the Committee on Ways priation for the erection of a public buildin~ at Brattleborough, Ver­ and Means, and ordered to be printed. · mont; which was read a first and second tlllle, referred to· the Com­ mittee on Public Buildings and Grounds, and ordered to be printed. ORDER OF BUSINESS. The SPEAKER. The call of States and Territories for the intro­ ARCHIBALD AND JOHN NELSON. duction of bill8 and· joint resolutions having been concluded, tlie 1\fr. FULKERSON introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6789) granting a regular order to-day, this being the third Monday of the month, is· pension to Archibald Nelson and John Nelson, minor children of the consideration of motions for suspension of the rules submitted John Nelson; which was read a :first and second time, referred to under instruction of committees. The last committee called under the Committee on Invalid Pensions, and ordered to be printed. this order was the Committee on Military .Affairs. The next in order NANCY JOHNSON LONSDALE. is the Committee on Naval .Affairs.

Mr. DARRALL introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6790) for the relief of OCEA....~ TELEGRAPillC COMMUNICATION. Nancy Johnson Lonsdale; which wa read a first and second time, Mr. TALBOTT. I am authorized by the Committee on Naval referred to the Committee on War Claims, and ordered to be printed. .Affairs to move that the rules be suspended to take frOJll the Speak­ FREE MATERIALS FOR BUILDING VESSELS. er's table and pass with an amendment the bill (S. No. 2084) to en­ Mr. DINGLEY introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6791) to remit import courage and p1·omote telegraphic communication between America duties on materials used in the construction and equipment of ves­ and Europe. sels to be employed in the foreign carrying trade ; which was read The bill was read, as follows : a first and second time, referred to the Committee on Ways and Be it fmacted, cf:c., That Robert Garrett, William F.Bmns and William F. Frick, of Maryland, their associates, succeRsors, and assigns, shall have the right to con­ Means, and ordered to be printed. struct, my, land, and maintain a line or lines of telegraph or submarine cables on GE:XERAL ISRAEL VOGDE • the Atlantic coast of the United States of .America, to connect the .American and European coasts by telegraphic lines, wires, or submarine cables; Provided, That 1\lr. McLANE introduced a bill (H. R. No. 679-2) for the relief of said company shall begin to lay said cable or cables within two years from the Colonel and l5revet Brigadier-General Israel Vogde , United States pa sag;e of this act: .And provUled further, That no amalgamation, union, or sale Army; which was read a :first and econd time, refeiTed to the Com­ of cable interests established under this act shall be made to any existing Euro- mittee on Military .Affairs, and ordered to be printed. pean or other cable companies. · SEc. 2. That any telegraphic line or cable laid be subject to the following con­ CHARLES T. CLEME~. dition , stipulations, andre er>ations, to wit: First. The Government of the United States sha.ll be entitled to exercise and 1\ir. PETTIGREW (by request) introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6793) enjoy the same or similar. privileges with regard to the oontrol and u e of such for the relief of Charles T. Clement; which was read a first and sec­ line or lines, or cable or cables,~ as there may, by law, agreement, or otherwi e be ond time, referred to the Committee on ClaJIDB, and ordered to be exercised and enjoyed by any toreii!D government whatever. · printed. Secondly. Citizens of the United States shall enjoy the same privileges as to the payment of rates for the transmission of messages as are enjoyed by the citizens WILLIAM W. ARMSTRO:XG. of the most favored nation. 1\fr. WALKER (by request) introduced a bill (H. R. No, 6794) for Thirdly. The transmission of di'!patches shall be made in the following order: the relief of ·william W. Armstrong; which waa read a first and First, dispatches of states under such regulations as may be agreed upon by the governments intere ted, the rates not to exceed those charged to individual~ ; second time, referred to the Committee on Military .Affairs, and secondly, disP.atches on telegraphic service ; and, thirdly, private dispatches. ordered to be printed. Fourthly. The lines of any such cables shall be kept open to the public for the CHARLES C. PICKETT. daily transmis ion of market and commercial reports and intelligence, ancl all mea ages, dispatches, and communications shall be forwarded in the order in Mr. ROBERTSON introduced a bill (H. R. No. 6795) for the relief which they are received, except as hereinbefore provided. of Charles C. Pickett; which was read a first and second time, re­ Fifthly. Before extending and establishing any such line or lines, or cable or ferred to the Committee oh War Claims, and ordered to be printed. cables, in or over any wa.ters, reefs, islands, shores, and lands within the jruisdic­ tion of the United States, a written acceptance of the terms and eonditiolll:l im­ GRAND LODGE I. 0. 0 . F ., OF LOUISIANA. po ed by this act shall be filed in the office of the Secretary_of State by the par­ 1\ir. ROBERTSON also introuuced a bill (H. R. No. 6796) for the ties above named, or a majority of them, their associatesa successors, or assigns, relief of the Grand Lodge of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows ~~eb~a-:s ~cfe~l:sr~~oratton which may be organize to construct and op~r-

. 6148 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 17,

SEC. 3. That nothing in this act shall be construed to limit the United States in more forcibly e:x.hi.bit the delay attending any increase of pay to the ~nting to o t,b ~ persbns or companies similar privileges h erein contained. $800 carrier unless after many years of service : · SEC. 4. T hnt the-ri~b t to alter, amend, or repeal this act at any time is hereby reserved to Con,«ress. PosT-OFFICE, CINCTh'N.A.-:p:, OHio, May 15, 1882. The SPEAKER. The gent lemanfromMarylandmovesto suspend DEAR Srn: Yours of the 11th instant is at hand. So much depends upon the increase of force by authority of tbe Post-Office De­ the I'ules t o pass this bill wit h the amendulent , which amendment partment, and upon the uncertamty attending casualties in the hifaher grade, that will be read. it is difticult to give a satisfactory answer to your questions. will, however, The Clerk read as follows: give some facts in connection with the matter, and make as close an approxi.ma.­ tion as possible to the time you inquire about. After the word "amalgamation" insert "combinatiqn to establish rates." Since the present law went into effect but two carriers of the $800 class have been promoted to the $1,000 class in this office. Mr. DEZENDORF. I desire to offer an amendment. During the same time nine auxiliaries have been promoted to the $800 class, four The SPEAKER. That is not in order. by vacancies in the higher grade, and five by order of the Department. The question being taken on the motion of Mr. TALBOTT to sus­ It takes over two years in this office for an auxiliary to reaetter information of the committee, so that the illustration will class, May 1, 1882. 1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6149

J. Finan, substitute, June 2, 1881; auxiliary, October 1, 1881; second class, May ciencies at present existing with us, advancement will come in three or four years; 15, 1882. but until it comes how are we to keep body and sonl together! Is it not handicap­ ThtJre are for-tv-eight second-cia Boston writes me as follows: in a way which will reflect honor and credit upon our Government, and must we be PosT-OFFICE, BosTON, MA.ssACHUBETTs, May 13, 1882. compelled to withdraw from necessity and count the time spent in the Govern­ DEAR SIR: Will von kindly allow me to add to my letter of this date, in reply ment employ as so many months or years of our lives thrown away 1 What we to your of 11th inst.ant, that" I most sincerely hope that the compensation to aux­ a k for is but a chance to live. · iliary carriers will be raised to $600 per annum. It is clearly, in my judgment~ in Gentlemen, we have now stated our case to you and we rest satisfied that after the mterest of true economy and the morale of the service, and is indeed right and knowing our condition you will assist in speedy legislation toward the alleYiation just in every w pect of the matter. of our reasonable wants. Very respectfully, yours, Submitted with resp.ect. E. S. TOBEY: P.M. M. F. DOLAHAR, Ohairm.an. llon. H. H. BL'i"OHA.M, M. a., Washington. A. F. GORDON, SecretaTfJ. G. W. GOODELL, The po tmaster at Albany, New York, writes: G. W. HARRINGTO:N, R. T. MURPHY, Eight hundred !Den have bE".en in the service ~even, eight, an~ nine :rears; but E. L. SMITH two promotions smce 1879. Would take about fifteen years to gam the tirst grade. A. J. B.AILEY, The postmaster at Baltimore, .Maryland, writes: .Executive 0G"m;nittee of Boston Auxiliary L etter-Oarriers' Association. Not more than one or two promotions occur during the administration of a Mr. Speaker, I now reserve the remainder ofmytime. postmaster's term of four years, and the last man will grow gray in the service Mr. BUTTERWORTH. Was not this bill unanimously reported before he reaches the first grade under present law. from the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads f The postmaster at Detroit, Michigan, writes: Mr. BINGHAM. It is reported unanimously from that committee. Tbere bas been but one promotion in three yeai"R, and taking that as a rule it :Mr. McMILLIN. I yield to the gentleman from Indiana. ""tTill be f01ty·eight years before the man wh~ is now last on the lli>t will reach the Jl.rst grade. Mr. HOLMAN. I wish the attention of the gentleman from Penn­ sylvania, who reported this bill, for a fow moments. If I under tand The po tmaster at Pittsburgh says," it will be from ten to twelve the proposition correctly it is confined to first-class cities of this years." country. Am I correct as to that! I will al o inclnde in my remark~:~ the circular notice issued by the 1\Ir. BINGHAM. It will be necessary to eX-plain vhat second-cia s postmaster at Philadelphia., Pennsylvania, rela.t.ing to applicants for cities are. Cities with a population less than 75,000 are second cla-ss. place in the carriers' ervice and the character they must maintain It is only in the very large cities they have substitute carriers. and posses: Mr. HOLMAN. Does the gentleman mean this applies only to first­ POST-OFFICE, PHILADELPHIA, PIDi'NSYLVA..'UA, June 2, 1881. class cities f Circular for the information of persons applying for positions as letter-carriers. Mr. BINGH.A.l\I. It applies to first and second class cities. In the After ,Tuly 1 the carrier force of this office will be coml?osed of 269 regular car­ riers, 65 auxiliary carriers, and as many sub titnte can-ters (40 to 60) as may be second-class cities the auxiliary letter-carrier will receive $600 a year. required to do the work of absent regnlar or auxiliary carriers. :Mr. HOLMAN. I desire to a.ak my friend another question. What The pay of carriers at this office is as follows: 168 regular carriers, $1,000 per will be the annual increase if these salaries be increased as pro­ annum ; ·101 regular carriers, $800 per annum ; 65 auxiliary carriers, $400 per posed f annum. Substitute carriers do not have regular work ::md do not receive rel!nlar pay, Mr. BINGHAM. That will depend wholly on the appropriation being; entitled only to the pay of carriers whose work they do for sncli time as annually allowed for the postal service. they actually work. Mr. HOLl\!AN. If we allow this increase of course appropriation Substitute carriers should earn, on an av-erage, as much as $400 per annum. will have to be made to carry it into effect. A sub. tirute carrit>r furnishes a bond for $1,000 and takes the required oath of office, which stands good until be is promoted, unless, for any reason, a new bond Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. I hope gentlemen will speak a or oath is required. little louder or that conversation will cea-se in the Hall, for it is next Ea{)b r egular, auxiliary, and substitute carrier provides himself twice a. year to impossible to hear what the gentlemen are saying.., with a r gulation uniform. Mr. HOLMAN. Of cour e, Mr. Speaker, appropriation will be A man appointed to the carrier force of this office has his name placed at the bottom of tho list of sub titute carriers, and is entitled to promotion in turn only made in accordance with any law passed by ConiP'ess. I wish to as vaMassachusetts, do earnestly petition you to look with kind and attentive consid­ private life; and I believe that the real reform in the c:lvil service of eration on our deplorable condition. For $400 a year we labor hard and intelli· this conntry, that which will purify and elevate, will be the J."emoval gently; for $400 a year we are obli~ed to support a family, which amount is ut­ of those incen tjves which now exist and are largely increasing to draw terly inadequat-e for providing our elv-es with the bare necessaries of life. Sup­ into the public service young men from all classes of our populace pose, as an example of the inaaeqnacy of our salary, that we cite the cost af a few things in order t<> show how far a man can go on the year·ly stipend received by a who have a desire to press into snch employments for the reason that member of our cia s: two uniforms a year, at a cost of $35; rent of tenement in any they furnish perhaps larger salaries and ordinarily Je s exhaus1.i ve respectable part of our city, $15 a month, making a yearly amount of $180. Al· labors than equal service in private employment, either physical or ready, but for two items. uniforms and rent, $215 is expended. leanng $185 for pro­ mental. /. viding clothe , fuel, food, light, &c., for our families, almo t eYery one of us being married. \Ve are ~xpected to be of crood moral characi r, of more than average I do not therefore believe in the increaSe of salaries as a general intelligence, to possess the energy ana peculiar abilit-y reqni ite for the perform­ rule, nor do I believe in paying any salaries to Government employes ance of our duties; our hours are long and labors severe. and as compensation for beyond what is fair and rea.sonal>le, so as to secnre the best degree all this we receive not one-half what we would command in any other business of integrity and efficiency in that service. On the contrary, I regard demanding as many qrlalitications. As an incentive, the chance for advancement is held up, which chance is not the tendency to increase salaries and the increu eu eagerness to en­ only no better but not even as good as that thrown out in the ordinary business ter public employments as the great evil of the hour attaching to wafks of life. It may be said that the advantages of advancement will repay deft- our·republican system of Government; and while it may be said with 6150 CONGRESSIONAL RE(}ORf>-· HOUSE. J ULY 17,

perfect truth that this class of employes now under consideration is which the postal revenues can afford t o dispense with. This would a very meritorious class, yet the fact that gentlemen are anxious to occasion but a comparatively small reduction of receipt . In an­ secure these appointments and are willing to perform the duty at swer to a resolution of inquiry which I presented t.o this Hou e, the the salaries now paicl is an indication that the compensation is fairly Postmaster-General on the 18th of May last reported to this House oufficient. Hitherto, as has been admitted on all side , this service that the total receipts from second-class matter or newspaper po t­ has IJeen well supplied. age mailed from offices of publication was only $1,3!.19,048.64, and Another thing, Mr. Speaker, this is a service which pertains ex­ the Postmaster-General recommended the r epeal of postage on sec­ clusively to tho larger cities of the country, and is undoubtedly paid ond-class matter and to allow newspapers and magazines mailed at at the expense of tho rural populace. The great cities of the coun­ the office of publication to be sent free through tlie mails. This is try will undoubtedly perpetuate this system, and the smaller cities done now within the boundaries of counties where newspaper are will have it increaseu from time to time, and yet the whole amount publi hed. I think we might well take off the po tage entirely from of.the expense is not paid by them but is drawn from the general newspaper that are mailed from the office of is ue and leave them revenues of the country, antl it is consequently that much taken to go t.hrouO'h the mails free. from t.hese revenues drawn from all alike, as much from the rural This woufd greatly tend to cheapen the cost of newspapers to the population as from the cities for the benefit of these favored locali­ people and promote the diffusion of knowledge among the people. ties where this service exists. I believe the system of letter-carriers I al o concur in the suggestion that the postage on merchandise is now regarded as an admirable one, and, as I have said, will nat­ should be increased. If thi is done the reduction of letter and urally be perpetuated, and it would be useless as well as unwise to newspaper postage will be fully covered. make an effort now to do away with it. I aak that the letter of the Postmaster-General be published in But I must insist, as one of the representatives of the people upon the RECORD: this floor, that it is not the part of wisuom nor sound policy to seize POST-OFFICE DEl' ARTMENT, upon the efficient manner in which such public service is performed Washington, D. 0., May 18, 1882. as a means to secure an increase of salary beyond the compensation Sm: In response to a. resolution of the House of Representative of the 29th of received by tho same class of persons, or persons performing duties April, 1~2, •· that the Po tmaster-General be, and he is hereby, reque~tele, prepared by the Superintendent of Railway Mails, shows from a thousand to one thou and two hundred letters per day¥ the difl'erent diStances for which two cents will carry one pound at the rates paid 1\Ir. HOLMAN. Undoubtedly my friend must understand that I on different roads : am aware of these facts. Ir. ELLIS. That they have to knock at a thousand doors, or Distance for mount a thousand or one thousand two hundred door-steps, and ring Rate paid per .Average num- which 2 cents a thousand or one thousand two hundred door-bells to deliver these mile per an- ber o!founds num. carri daily. will carry one letters pound. 1\Ir. HOLMAN. I am very well aware of the extent of their duties, but I do not believe that they do more in that re pect or that the Miles. labor is any more exacting than that which is done by the great $42 75 200 34.15 majority of people in private life who are employed in private estab­ 64 13 500 48.06 li hments. 85 50 1, 000 85.47 Mr. McMILLIN. I now yield :five minutes to the gentleman from 106 88 1, 500 128 25 2, 000 i~:: ~~ I illinois. 149 63 3, 500 170.80 Mr. TOWNSHEND, of lllinois. Mr. Speaker, the gentleman from 171 00 5, 000 213. 50 Pennsylvania [Mr. BINGHAM] has failed to assign any good reason 192 38 7, 000 683.06 why the salaries proposed to be raised by this bill should be now increased that did exist when the law was first enacted. I am one But for the express command of the House of Repre entatives I should hardly I of those who do not believe that salaries should be raised until we venture to express an opinion as to the propriety of abolishing po tage on second­ are able to reduce the burdens now resting upon the people, and class matter. I have no exclusive or exceptional means of forming an opinion on therefore I am opposed to the incre.ase of salaries for these or any the subject. Neverthele s, my opinion is that such postage shouler star routes of more than $1 ,700.000. Very nearly the stead have brought in a bill to increase the salarie of the employes whole of the star and steamboat service has been rea-djusted and relet for a term of that Department, thus necessitating the absorption of the receipt of four years from the 1st of July next. of the postal revenues and thereby postponing the opportunity for The precise cost of that service under the new contracts cannot now be stated reduction of th rates of postage. but it 1s believed it will be quite a. million le g than the present cost. If this esti­ mate is realized more than the whole deficit of June, 1881, will be saved in tht~ cost Mr. COX, of New York. Let me ask the gentleman from Illinois, of the star and steamboat ervice during 1883. if it should turn out that this measure would save revenue and not This, however, is not all profit. .A. the quantity of mail matter increases, the be a measure of expense, if he would vote for it ' cost of handling it must increase, though not in tlie same ratio. And wnile the Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. It would take longer than the co!lt of tar service is greatly diminisheil, the cost of railway service will be con· siderably increased, becaose both of the greaternumber ofthepouuds carried and time that I have at my command for gentlemen to convince me that the greater number of miles traversed. After these deductions are made, however, raisinO' salaries can increase the revenue of the Department. I will it is believed the total cost of mail transportation will be considerably less dur­ furthe~ say, upon the question of reduction, I am sati :tied it will be ing the next fiscal year than in any recent year. found at this day, a it was found in England and as it bas been found It is also gratifying to know that while expenditures are decreasing the re>enne are increa ing. That, indeed, bas been our experience from year to year. in every instance in this country where we have reduced letter post- Even if these gratifying predictions are not realized, it doe not nee sarily fol­ ~ aO'e, that the reduction will greatly multiply the letter mail matter low that postage on second-class matter should not be abolished. ' a~d thereby will increase the receipts of the Department; and I There seems to be a conflict of opinion as to whether the po tal service shonld be administered as a business or a a beneficence. It is in fa

".Packages not exceedin.e: fom: ~ounds in weight, is han~led at a great loss. No one take the trouble to read the .statistics on this subject will vote for will dispute the first proposition; no one can safeiy di pute "the las~. . The Governtnent has no monopoly of the carnage of m rchandise as It has of this bill, especially those men who claim that they wish to increase ]etters. It competes with all other carriers for the lm iness of carrying merchan­ the revenue of the Department, and not add to its expenses I espe­ ·dise, and it competes upon very unequal terms. T!Je Government has b"!lt one cially desire to have this read for the benefit of my distinguished Tate for all distances, long or short. _All other ~rners vary :.;ates accord_mg to friend from Illinois, [Mr. TOWNSIIE~--n.] .{ljl:!tance. Sixteen cents per pound IS an exorbitant charg for the carnage of gootls between Boston and New York. But as the Government will not carry for The Clerk read a follows: 1e s other carriers do that busiues . That rate does not pay between New York Tho receipts for local postage at the lar~er post-offices have enabled the Depart­ .and 'Arizona. Consequently, the mail_is burdened with everything ~hich can be ment to show, in several succe sive annual reports, that the free-delivery service_, sent in four pounlic is to l>e taxed for the transportation of either class of mail matter, lected by potage. ..o:s Jnnt' serVIce. ~0 unquestionably it shoulu be not for the fourth clas , but for the second. Intel­ 30- carrier . ligence rather than trad should be fostered by the G .•vemment. It does not much tzi concern the whole peoplewllat it cots the merchant of Montana to tra:osp~rt his teas or his shoes from New York or Boston. On the contrary, the diffusiOn of 1872 . •.... 311, 847, 397 intelligence is a matter of public and of general co!lc rn .. .$1, 385, 965 76 $907,351 93 '$478, 613 83 ...... 52 1873 ..•... 374, 915, 664 1, 422, 495 48 1, 112, 251 21 310,244 27 ... 52 It is hardly an exh·avaganco to say that the. crrculatio~ ~f new~papers !l'nd ...... 1874 ...... 503, 386, 397 1, 802, 696 41 I, 611, 481 66 191,214 75 ...... 87 ma.,.azine in Texas i a benefit to Vermont, andtn,ce-versa. Thi fact1s reco~mzeu . 1875 ...... 574,201,474 1, 880, 041 99 1, 947, 559 54 ...... $67,517 55 87 by ~.dsting laws. To pread information an10ng the people the Go>ernment not 1876 ...... only sends free of postao-e hunureds of thousands of volumes through the mails, 631, 777, 473 1, 981, 186 51 2, 065, 561 73< ...... 84,375 22 87 1877 ...... 666, 563,478 1, 893, 619 85 2, 254, 597 83 ...... 360,977 98 87 but actnallv prints the~ for fl'ee di tril>ution. 1878 ...... 715, 782, 150 1, 824, 166 96 2, 452, 251 51 If it be ~:iid the e volumes detail the transactions of the Government which it is ...... 628,084 55 87 ll:!79. -- ••• 809, 854, 065 1, 947,706 61 2, 812, 523 86 ...... 864,817 25 88 ()f prime importance to have widely knoWD, that must be admitted. But it may 1 0 ...... 932, 121, 843 2, 363, 693 14 3, 068, 797 14 well be doul>ted if the whole people get a muchinforma.tion of public affairs from ...... 705,104 (10 104 1881. •.•.. 1, 016, 197, 5ti2 2, 493,972 14 3, 273, 630 39 ...... 779,658 25 101 the volumes gratuitously throWD at them as they do from newspapers and ma~­ .azines which they purchase and pay for. It is al o notkeable t.hat uch pu l>lications are. under existing laws, distributed through the ma.ils free of pol:!ta e within the county of publication. There does ~fr. COX, of New York. That shows the truth of what I stated. not seem to be any sound rea ·on why tho Gov. rnment should distribute a !fe~v We can make money out of this business instead of losing by it. York newspaper· freely within the county of row York, or a Boston paper Wltbm Mr. BINGHAM. I yield two minutes to the gentleman from New the county of Suffolk, and yet charge postage on the arne new papers when they cro s tho jines of tho. e counties. York, [Mr. ROBL"\80~.] It happens not unfrequentiy that newspapers or other econd-class matter is Mr. ROBINSON, of New York. I am in favor of the passage of publislleu in towns which are traversed by the line div~ cribcrs to newspapers and magazines, will reduce the postage on letter to a great extent; not to two cents, .and end the same through the mails without charge, whether such subscriber (feside within tho county ofpublicati_on or outside of it. but to one cent; and if there was a coin less than one cent in the I am, ver.} respectfully, yom· obedient servant, · currency of the country, I would move, when the bill comes properly T. 0. HOWE, before the House, to have the postage half a cent or a quarter of a P01:.tm aster-General. cent ou each letter under half an ounce. The ·moment you reduce Ron. J. W. KEIFER, . Speaker of the House of P..eyruentatices, Wa,Jihingtan, D. 0. the postage to one cent, you will have ten letters sent for one cent each for every letter now sent at three cents; and you can easily Mr. McMILLIN. I de ire to call the attention of the House to the calculate the difference. fact that iu the ten or twelve minute occupied byths chairman One pound of a. certain kind of mail-matter is carried fo:r two cents. of the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads, who asks the With letter postage at the present rates there would be required passa.o-e of this bill, not a single fact was given showing that the ninety-six cents to carry the same weightofletters. Iflettcrs were publi~ ervice demanded this increase of salaries. You may read his charged at one cent each half ounce, it would require thirty-two .speech when it appear in the RECORD, or you may recall it now as cents tc:> pay for the same amount of letter matter as is now carried jt fell on your ears, and the fact stands that the only reason he gave for two cents, of a certain kind of mail matter. for the bill was that the promotions are not rapid enough. I have not the time to go into the sub,ject in two minutes. ·what­ I for one hold that the object of the establishment of this Govern­ ever may be the result of this bill, I believe we are going to make a ment is not to increase promotion . I think it will be accepted, too, la1·ge reduction in the rates of letter postage, which reduction will .as sound doctrine that tho Post-Office Department ought ultimately, double, treble, and quadruple the amount of income from thepostal if it can, be made self- ustaining, iu order that tho e who use the service. This country, with 50,000,000 of people, will then send ten ervice may pay for it. It can only come in that way. That clay is and twenty letters for every one now sent. That very reduction of postponed every time we increase the expenditures of the Depart­ postage will place an additional burden upon these letter-carriers, ment. who are the most meritorious and the worst paid class of employes If the gentleman from Pennsylvania [.Mr. BL.~GII.A.'\1] wants to in­ that we have. -crease promotions and give equality of salarie he may begin at Mr. BINGHAM. I now yield one minute to the gentleman from home. For right here in this House and in the other end of the New York, [.Mr. McCooK.] Capitol and in the folding-room you will find men performing the Mr. McCOOK. In my judgment, no more meritorious bill has ever .same service, and one getting a salary 20 or 25 per cent. larger than been presented for the consideration of this House than the one now the other receives. . called up by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr. BIGNHAM.] I I yield the remainder of my time to the gentleman from Arkansas, know from personal observation that the letter-carriers of the city [Mr. DUNN.) of New York are the hardest worked and the poorest paid public . The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Tenne ee has no time to officials, not only in that city ~ut in the United States. .And so yield. Does the gentleman from Pennsylvania [~lr. BL~GHAM] de­ with the letter-carriers in every city in the United States. .sire to occupy the remainder of his time 1 I will guarantee that the letter-carriers of the city of New York Mr. BINGHAM. I yield two minutes to the gentleman from New do more work in one day and receive less pay for it than the average York, [.Mr. Cox.] • clerk in the city of Washington does in three days. It seems to me Mr. COX, of New York. I desire, if I cau, to get the attention of that we cannot go astray if we make some additional provision for the House. I think tho Hou e ought to vote intelligently on this this very worthy class of office-holders. matter. Mr. BINGHAM. I now yield one minute to the gentleman from The SPEAKER. The Hon e will come to order. Ohio, [Mr. BUTTEWOR'l'H.] Mr. COX, of New York. The Speaker will remember the trouble l\Ir. BUTTERWORTH. I wish to supplement what my friend we had in having the pay of these letter-carriers raised against the fmm New York [Mr. McCooK] has said, in this: the object of this · arne kind of objection as is 1.ow urged. The matter is certified to bill is to do what was originally intended to be accomplished by as beyond all doubt that the e local letter-carrier are a source of the law of 1879, to secure adequate pay to these men. It so hap­ i.'evenue and not of expense. pened, however, that the peculiar draftin~ of that law failed to ac­ I have only two minute , but I will a k the Clerk to read a state­ complish what it was intended to accomplish. It was thought that .ment from the report of the Postmaster-General, which shows in 1881 promotions would be sufficiently rapid to secure the proper and ad­ .a surplus of nearly ~0,000 growing out of thi very service. equate compen ation of these men. It turns out that owing to the Mr. BINGHAM. .A.nd this year it will be a million. peculiar phraseology of the law, by its practic~l working, they are Mr. COX, of New York. And this year, as the c.hairman of the not adequately paid. .committee, who was formerly a postmaster himself, holding that ~h-. HUTCHINS. Will the geutlema.n allow me to a.sk him a. llO!:!itiou in Philadelphia, tells the House, it will be a million. I know question J -the ~urplus is growing in New York, andl_know everyman who will Mr. BUTTERWORTH. If I have time to answer it. 6152 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 17,

Mr. HUTCHINS. 'Vill you agree that these officers shall be ex- The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Indiana. [~Ir. HOL:\IA...--.] will cepted from the 2 per cent. asse sment f . be rec~gnized to control the time in opposition to the motion. Mr. BUTTERWORTH. Certainly; I am willin()' to have_every Mr. HOLMAN. I trn t that the gentleman from Kansas [~lr. HAS­ official of the Government excepted who desires to be; it is entirely KELL] will explain fully the character of this bill. a. volUDtary thing. 1\Ir. HASKELL. l\1r. Speaker, very nearly $200,000 have been ap­ Mr. BINGHAM. I yield one mi.J;mte to the gentleman from Ohio, propriated by this Congre s to be expended in the discretion of the [1\lr. TOWNSEND.) Secretary of the Interior for the education of Indian youth belong­ 1Ir. TOWNSEND, of Ohio. The present law was passed when I ing to tribes with whom we have treaty stipulations. This bill simply was a member of the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roa-ds, provides that military barracks unused and not needed for military and I had charge of the bill on this floor. It was the best law we purpo es may, if the Secretary of \Var shall so desire, be set apart could pass at that time, and t.be most equitable. But it was then for the establishment of industrial training-schools for Indian youth, understood that in the operations of the departments amendments thereby saving the expense of erecting buildings for the purpose. and changes would become necessary. The measure bas been twice reported unanimously by the Committee I have examined this bill carefully and I am satisfied that it is a on Indian.Affairs. It has been urged upon Congre s by every board good bill. It is but equitable that we should increase the pay of connected with Indian education. It basbeeurecommended by both these employes, and the increase proposed by this bill will amount the pre ent Secretary of the Interior and his predeces or. It con­ to only about 100,000 for the entire service, which is not so much as tains no appropriation of money. It simply allows the Secretary the increase of receipts from this service in a single year. I trust, of the Interior, with t.he consent of the Secretary of War, to take therefore, that this bill will become a law, believing as I do that it P.ossession of ~hese un~sed military posts w berever they may be con­ will result to the best interests of the service. tJguons to th1s educational work, to establish schools there, and ex­ The question was taken on the motion to suspend the rules and pend there the money already appropriated or such sums as may pass the bill as read; and npon a division there were-ayes 121, hereafter be appropriated. It binds Congre s to no appropriation in noes15. the future. The scho-ols will be continued from year to year only as lli. McMILLIN. Let us have the yeas and nays. yon appropriate for them. If they are continued, the nnu ed posts The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman call for the yeas ancl nays may be used, so that no money will needle ly ue expenued for the lli. SCALES. I call for the yeas and nays. erection of building . The question was taken upon ordering the yeas and nays; and Tl~e bill also provides that ifthe Sec~etaryofWarcboo es hemay there were- ayes 20, noes 100. ueta1l an Army officer to take charge of the schools. But the policy So (one-fifth not voting in the affirmative) the yeas and nays were of the present Secretary of War and of the Commander-in-Chief is not ordered. against this to a great extent; and it is not expected that this au­ Accordingly the rules were suspended and the bill was passed, thority will be exercised, although if it be desired in behalf of this two-thirds voting in favor thereof. educational system the bill aTiows it to be done. BUSL."mSS FROM THE CO:\DIITTEE 0~ PUBLIC LAl\""DS. I yield five minutes to my former coUeague on the Committee on Indian Aft'airs, the gentleman from Wisconsin, [l\Ir. Pomm,] who Mr. POUND. By direction of the Committee on Public Land I introduced this bill. move to suspend the rules and adopt the re olution which I end to !lr. POUND. Mr. Speaker, having introduced this bill, and tak­ the Clerks desk. ing as I do a deep interest in the question involved, I bafl exl:lected The resolution was read, as follows: when it came up for final action to submit a brief argument in its Resolved, That Thursday, p. m., the 20th instant, after the recess of saitl day, be set apart for the consitleration of bills favorably reported by the Committee on support. I am thoroughly convinced that ample provision for the Public Lands, aml Senato bills upon the Speaker's table the subjects of which industrial education and training of Indian youth, male anorably reported on by said committee; this SP.ecial order not to in­ removed from parental and tribal influence and control, i the true terfere with privileged reports, and if displaced by privilerred reports, then to policy for the Government to adopt. Such a policy vigorou ly pros­ take effect the next succeeding day not occupied by privilege8 be taken from the Honse Calendar There are now three training schools for Indian youth in the United States-one at Hampton. Virginia, one at the old military barracks at ~arlisle, Pennsylvania, and passed. and one e tablished by State authority in Oregon. Th~ Clerk read as follows: The result of these experiments demonstrates that this method of massing the A bill to provide additional industrial traicing-schools for Indian youth, and au­ Indian youth, male and female, at the training schools is the true way to advance thorizing the use of unoccupied military barracks for such purpo e. civilization and education among t.he Indian tribes. A very exhaustive report on this subject was made to the Forty-sixth Congress, Bs it macted by the Senate and House (If Representatil'e& Qf the United States of second session, by Governor Pound, in which he embodies the rerort made on this­ America in Congress assembled, That the Secretary of War be, and he is hereby, same subject, on the 14th of J one, 1879. This report of Governor Pound is adopted n.uthori zed to set aside, for use in the establishment. of normal and industrial train­ and made part of this report. inl!-schoolil for Indian youth from the nomadic tribes hanng educational treaty "The Committee on Indian Affairs, having further considered the bill (H. R. claims upon the United States. any vacant posts or barracks, so long as they may No. 1735) entitled 'A bill to increase educat-Ional privileges and establish addi· not be required for military occupation, and to detail one or more officers of the tional industrial training schools for the benefit of youth belonp:ing to such no­ Army for duty in connection with Indian education, under the direction of the madic Indian tribes as have educational treaty claims upon the United State , ' Secretary of the Interior, at each such school so e tablished: Pro1:ided, That moneys appropriated or to be appropriated for general ~urposes of edur.ation ~E~!ts!h~~d:d~ack with amendment-s, with the recommendation that it pass amon~ the Indians may be expended, under the direction of the Secretary of the " The committee, in reportin~ this bill for final action, beg to restate and reaf­ Interior, for the education of Indian youth at such posts, institutions, and schools firm the considerations set out m their report of June 14, 1879, submitted for print­ as he ma~T consider advantageous, or as Congress from time to time may authorize ing and recommittal, and to supplement and emphasize the same by citing a few and proVIde. pertinent facts of sub equant history. The following is from the report above Mr. HOLMAN. I demand a secoml npon.this motion. rcfeiTed to : The SPEAKER. If there be no objection a second will be con­ " 'Your committee beg to submit, in support of such recommendation, that the. Govemment has made treaty stipulations with several nomadic tribes of lnilians, td ed schooling as provided. bud, Pine Ridge, and Sisseton agencies in Dakot.a Territory, the Cheyenne and In wha.t degree the failure to carry into effect theso treaty provisions may be at· .A.rapallo. Kiowa and Comanche, Pawnee, Ponca, and Nez Perce a.aenciCl! in the tributed to the failure on the part of the United States to provide adequate school Indian Territory, and the Green Bay agency of Wisconsin. Received in the ruJest facilities, or on the part of the several tribes to a disinclination or refusal to ac· state of savagism, their p1·ogress is already most remarkable. cept such facilities and compel the attendance of their '1hildren, your committee " Your committee, accompanied by the Secretary of the Interior and· others, cannot definitely state, neither is it deemed ma.teri:J.l. It is clear that the material made a visit of inspection to this school on the 21st of Febrnary la t, and wer& interests and well-being of the Indians and the Government, as well as the cause bi~J:hlY gratified w;ith the methods of education and training adopted, and the of civilization and humanity, alike demand that these provisions be fully carried marvelou ad">ancement already manifest, which fully attest the feasibility and out and enforced. This bill provides for the utilization, for such school purposes, wisdom of such a policy. The following extract from a report submitted by Cap­ of vacant military posts and barracks, '• so long as the same may not be required tain Pl'a.tt to the visitors on the occasion referred to will be of interest in this for military occupation," and the employment of officers of the A.nny, either from connection : the active or retired list, as teachers or otherwi e, to be detailed by the Secretary " 'The aim of the school iR to give education in the common English branohes. of War, with no extra allowance for such service; such schools to be conducted adapted to the condition in life of students; to inculcate habits of industry and as normal and industrial schools, for the training of Indian youth of the nomadic thrift and to impart to them such knowledge in. common useful pur nits as will tribes, under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior. It is believed that rrw.ke them feel self-reliant and incite them to free themselves from the position the measures and met.hods so proviued will prove economical, acceptable, and effi. of Government pauper . cient, and, if thoroughly carded out aud enforced, must eventuate in grea. and in­ " 'It is claimed for this school that it sen-es a double purpos&-first, as an edu· calculable good to the Indians and t.o the Government. Indu>itrial education, as a. ca. tor of those who are here, and second, as an educating and controll in~ infiuenoo means of civilizing and elevating the savage, ha ceased to be experimental. over the Indians of the West. It is plain that they will feel a lively mterest in "'The effort in this direction recently undertaken and now in successful progress an institution which shelters and provide for their children. It is also plain that at the Industrial and Normal Institute at Hampton fumishes a strtkin~ proof of the fact of having here so many children of chiefs and headmen is an effectual the natural aptitude and capacity of the rudest savages of the plains for mechani­ guarantee of the good behavior of the tribes represented. Our buildings furnish cal, scientific, industri:J.l, and moral education, when removed from parental and ample accommodation for 350 students ; and by adding recitation-rooms, 500 cau tribal surroundings and influences. Upon this subject, in his report of November be handled. Increase of numbers would reduce the per capita cost. 1 1, 1878, the Commissioner of Indian Aftairs says: " An ordinary intelligence is now exhibited by the pupils in all the depart­ '''"Experience shows that Indian children do not differ from white children in ments, and their progress i~ already greater than we had expecLed. Their per­ similar soci:JJ status and surroundings in aptitude or capa.city for acquiring knowl­ sonal influence on the Indians at home is very great, and is entirely on the side of edge, and opposition or indifterence to education on tlte part of parents decreases friendship, good feeling, and progress. The tide of Indian sentiment has set yearly, so that the question of Indian education resol">es itself mainly into a ques- toward education. Our correspondence with agents, educatoTS, missionaries, and tion of school facilities." • Indians themselves is >ery large, and it all indicates that the time ha arrived "• He further speaks of the present policy in this re~ard as not only "short­ when almost every Indian child may become a pupil in an Engli h school. sighted," but "in direct contravention of treaty stipulatwn," and concludes that " ·The bill submitted by the Indian Committee, directing the u ·e of vacant "what f'lhould be the work of a. year will be protracted throu~J:h a decade. aud the military posts for the establishment of indu trial training schools, ought to pro­ work of a decade through a generation." In a. letter adilressed to the Secretary vide the best opportunities for thousand.~. and their agency schools would receiv& of the Interior, April 28, 1879, relative to the provisions of thi bill, the Commis­ new impetus, and through these means most of the wild Indians can surely be sioner says "that the proposition to make use of unoccupied military poots or bar­ placed upon a self-supporting basis before many years. racks and the uetail of c 1-tain Army officers in connection with industrial and "'To the fore~in~ might be auded many significant data and other pertinent normal training schools for the benefit of Indian youth has the unqualified ap­ pro">al of thiS Department;" and, after quoting from his annual report, wherein ~~;~tef!ftf:t!;ds;tl:~;c1h 0e0f~b!~~~~~;~~d~f.· and eminent fitness of the policy attention is called to treaty violations on the part of the Government, and to the All of which is respectfully submitted. deficiencies of the present system, he adds: '' '" The plan of utilizing vacant military posts and barracks will in a degree meet J>.-1r. SCALES. ~Ir. Speaker, I sympathize in the objects· of thi the great deficiencies of this work. It has in it the merit of aving much in the co t of buildings for such as can be accommodated, and it i hoped the speedy ex­ bill, but I would like to a k the gentleman from ·wisconsin whether ecution of it may not be delayed for want of such necessary authority as is needed the proviso does not give the Secretary of the Interior too large a from Congress. The experience of the Department has been that the uestresults discretion. It provides, I believe, that all moneys appropriated for are obtained by a removal of the children from all tribal influence during the pro­ Indian education may be used for the purpose contemplated by the gress of education, so that educators can command all the time and attention of their pupils. Youth so educated return to their tribes as teachers. interpreters, bill; and under this authority the Secretary of the Interior may a.t and examples in farming, &c., and, if properly sustained and guided thereafter, any time, it would Eeem, su. pend the schools on reservations, and prove far more effective guides than whites of the same capacity. Nothing is more appropriate the money to the e schools. Is that so f es ent.ial than that Indian youth while passin.g through school should l:.a\-e thor­ Mr. POUND. I do not so understand it. Even if the discretion ough instruction in some praat.ion of hard work." This spirit seems to meet the needs of the Indian refers to the general educational fund. race equally well, and the very con iderable number of agents, teachers, mission· aries, and others engaged in or interested in IndiAn educational work, who have Mr. HOLMAN. ltlr. Speaker, from a hasty examination of thiS­ visited and witnessed the methods of Hampton, join in commending it a-s just bill it Reems to me a very proper measure. Where the Government what the Indian needs. The int rcourse between the youth at Hampton and their has abandoned its military posts in the West, it would seem to be parents and people ou the plains ha-s produced extraordinary interest anddemancl eminently proper that those ancient agencies of oppre sion and :tor educational help from the e tribes. "'It is as commendable as it is notable that our modern y tams of education wrong toward the Indian tribes should be made available to en~le are lookina more and more to the training of hands to work. Useful employme11.t the Government; to diSDla.y something like the national humantty either of the bead or llancls for all classeS of society is absolutely essential to the wnich it owes w tn,ese nanve tnoes. I think, siJ', that when the pre.qervation of good order, public and private morals, and good ~overnment. It history of the last one hundred years shall be wrltten it will be a therefore cannot be too stron~ly ur~ed that in the education of Indian youth the primary aim should be to tram the nands to work, and to impress upon them the pleasant thing for our childreu to find here and there a green spot ab olute importance of usefullallor to insure their woll-being and happiness as in reference to our treatment of the Indians-an expre ·ion of na­ well as the auility to properly converse, read, write, and calculate. tional sympathy and national honor toward the1:1e disappearing tribe . 1 ·• The following are some of the vacant posts with barracks and quarters which For myself, I am willing to go to any reasonable extent in aiding may be used for school purposes ns proposed by thiR bill, named by the A(]jutant­ Gencral, to wit: Fort Bridger, 'VyominG; Carl'isl{l Barracks, Pennsylvania; Fort these remnants of the tribes to adva.nce in the path of progress ancl Craig, New Mexico; Fort Cummings, New Mexico; Forts Harker and Larned, development. I think the effort now being made by Congres and Kansas; Fort Marion, Florida; Fort Rice, Dakota; Fort edgwick, Colorado; and by our people everywhere to do something like justice to the Indians Camp Stambaugh, Wyoming. is deserving of the warmest commendation and support. I hope there " 'Is it not wise economy to occupy these Government buildinas and premises for the objects contemplated, employ lin part) Army officers who are fittw as may be no objection to the pa sage· of this bill. teachers and otherwi e in connection with suoh schools, and to vigorously and Mr. SCALES. Just one moment. I believe I was mistaken in the. adequateiy provide for and enforce the treaty tipulation recited; thereby not view I took of the pending proposition, because it gave to the Secre­ only discharging a Rolemn government obligation aud duty, but speedily accom· pli >hlng the education, elevation, and civilization of all the sa vage.'l ill our land¥ tary of the Interior too large a iliscretion. I have since examined it, It is believed that herein will be found the true solution of the llldian question, and find the provisions of the bill cover the point I was aiming at. and if adopted and duly executed a generation will not pass before the use of a I shall therefore, Mr. Speaker, support the bill. 6154 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 17,

1\fr. HASKELL. I believe the bill is agreed to on all hands. I which has just been read was delivered on the floor of this House in .ield now to the gentleman from Iowa, [Mr. DEERING.] that connection. If it had been so delivered I should have availed l\lr. DEERING. l\lr. Speaker, I am in favor of tbis proposition, myself of such privilege as the rules of this Hou e afford and the looking, as it doe , to the education of Indian children. If we are usa~e authorize on such occasions to protest a-gainst the use of right in our civilization, if education is better than ignorance, in­ sucn language. dustry t.han indolence, then it is certainly time that we should give In the first place, I will add that I have caused the notes of the -to this ill-fated moe the benefit of a change. official stenographer to be examined, and he informs me that no por­ Now, sir, what has been the policy heretofore of this Government tion of that sentence is to be found in his notes of the remarks of -toward the Indians' Until very recently it ba been to drive them the gentleman from New Jer ey on that occa ion, which confirms as far away as po siule from us, to make and break treaties with the statement I have made. . ·-them, and to carry on savage warfare and keep them in barbarism. Now, l\Ir. Speaker, I should not make the slighte t reference to If we wish to improve the condition of the Indians· and settle the this int-erpolation if it were an exercise of the ordinary privilege whole question we must change entirely the policy of the past. It which is given to all gentlemen, as an enlargement of the argnment is neces ary that we should educate and lift them up to a higher of the gentleman from New J ersey. I concede it to be his right to plane, and in order to do that we must bring them nearer to us and make such enlargement and to make such statements in a fuller and more ilirectly under the influence of our civilization. plainer manner than he may have made them upon the floor of the We have in this country only about 2G3,000 Indians, all told. That House, and to render them clearer by any warranted addition. But isabontafairaverage of what we havehadforacentury. Only a few it is not his right, in the 1·evision of a speech, to insert a personal more in number than the population of the di trict I have the honor attack upon another member, and thus put into the RECORD a per- to represent on this floor, and still thi handful of savages, barbar­ onal assault which be did not utter upon the floor of the Hou e. ous people, has kept this country in constant perplexity, turmoil, The attack to which I call attention here is personal in this ense and avage wa,rfare since the foundation of the Government. that it charges me with having made misrepre entations, or fulse I am glad, Mr. Speaker, that the right way has been found at last. statements- not erroneous statements, not statements derived from We have determined to devote attention to the Indian children, to false information, a he afterward did say, when I intervened promptly edu ate them and train them up in habits of industry. The indus­ and corrected him-but that I had made absolutely "fal e tate­ trial policy is the all-important one. They mu t be made to under­ menta" in this connection; thi was not made upon the floor of the stand that if they wish clothing and food and other n eces aries of House, but the gentleman deliberately sits down in his study and lifo they must work for them and earn them as wbite people do. inserts a personal charge which he did not make on the floor against In a speech made by me on this floor in 1830 I declared that ln,w­ me, of having made a false statement upon the floor and then pro­ le sne s and indolence would make fiend of any people on the face ceeds to impugn my motives. Now, l\Ir. Speaker, whatever my mo­ of the earth, and I am of thesaru.e opinion still. Take any community tiveR may have been, the proper place to have impugned them was of white people, establish agencies among them, supply them with upon the floor of the Rouse where I wa face to face with the gentle­ food and raiment and other neces aries, inculcate no habits of in­ man and ready to make such answer and such denial as the circum­ dustry, but on the contrary let them live in indolence, roaming stances of the case warranted, and not insinuate them into the REC­ aimle ly from day to day and year to year, and how long would it ORD where I had no opportunity to reply. bo before they would degenerate into uarbarism I do not propose to criticise tile language or the action of the gen­ In 1880 it was my privilege to visit the Indian chool at Carlisle. tleman from New Jer ey beyond the mere statement ofthe fact as I There I found India.n children repre enting eleven or twelve different have given it, that he availed him elf of what he conceived to be tribes of wild Indian . They had just commenced their studies. his opportunity to attack me covertly after his speech had been de­ Two or three months ago it was again my privilege to visit that livered in open House, and leveled at me a personal attack charg­ arne school, and there I found those same Iuilian children ranged in ing false statements; a charge which he did not make upon the floor rooms and pursuing various io.dustries with success and skill. In of the House, and which if made would have ~iven me an opportu­ -one working-room every part of the shoe was manufactured, in an­ nity then and there of meeting it and of protestin~. against the u se of ·otber every variety of tin-ware, and in another every part of t.he uch language as a violation of the ordinary parliamentary rules of market-wagon; and I wa informed that those Indian youths who the Honse. were being instructed at that school could of themselves and witb­ I confes, sir, that I do not know what my remedy i . . But a~ the oOut assistance lay ont the work and put up entire the two-seated language -was in erted in the RECORD and not used upon the floor of wagon upon which they were then employed. At that time Ire­ the Honse I think I have the right to require that t.hat cntence marked to a friend n ar me: "Here, then, i · the solution of the shall be stricken from the RECORD. I therefore a k the Sp · aker of vexed Indian problem. When we can edncate the Indian children, the House to order that the entence just read shall be strickeufrom train them up to ti·ade and the arts of farming and other industries, the RECORD, and if he Chair declines to do so I ball be compelled other matters of citizenship, homes in everalty, and other kindred to a k the Honse to req nire that that sentence containing thi attack questions will naturally take care of themselves." upon me shall be stricken from the RECORD-I. mean from the tereo­ That is all I have to say on the subject, Mr. Speaker; I am de­ typed edition. cidedly in favor of the pending proposition and hope the bill will Mr. ROBESON. I would be glad, l\1r. Speaker, if the Clerk would pass. report again the sentence to which the gentl6man from New York l\1r. .HA.sKELL'd motion was agreed to; and (two-third voting in ha called attention. favor thereof) the rules were suspended and the bill was passed. The Clerk read a follow PER mui:, EXPLANATION. I regret very much, Mr. Speaker, that I have but litt!.e time left to review th1... presentation of these subjects made by the gentleman f1·om New York, (MJ Mr. HEWITT, of New York. I rise, l\fr. Speaker, to a matter of HEWIIT.] That presentation wa specious, though it pretended to be candid; wa'J per onal privilege which was te1pporarily suspended in consequence extravagant, though it assumed to be careful; was fah!e, though it claimed to b-: frank. Though it was evidently founded upon information gathered from the of the absence of the gentleman from New Jer ey, [Mr. ROBESON.] mnlevolenreand misrepresentation of others, the gentleman who presented it gave The SPEAKER. There being no objection, the gentleman from it the stamp of his approval with all that reckle s confidence which seems to be New York will proceed. How much time does the gentleman de­ his nature when called upon to indorse an:vthin~ which impui,Ols the conduct or sire misrepresent the motives of others. .But time will only permit me to answer him Mr. HEWITT, of New York. I shall be very brief. l\Ir. Speaker, in general term . in the discussion of the naval appropriation bill, the gentleman 1\Ir. ROBESON. Mr. Speaker, it is not my habit to write ont my from New Jersey [Ur. ROBESON] on the 6th instant closed the de­ speeches. It is my h:tbit to make what lawyers call" briefs,'1 con­ bate. I list.ened to the argument of the gentleman and to hi taining general propo ition , from which heads certain arguments remarks with a great deal of care and attention, because I had re­ are made and conclusions drawn. How much of the sentence was ceived an intimation that something of a personal nature would be actually delivered and how much was heading in my brief I cannot introduced uy him and used in his remarks against me, and that I now say; but the gentleman from New York a few days previous to had better give attention to it. llnt in the peech as delivered I the day upon which I spoke had him elf made an elaborate peech .observed nothing open to just objection. I find in the published mme than half of which was not delivered upon this floor, but report of this speech, however, which was delivered on the 6th of which wa afterward printed in the RECORD. Indeed, the gentle­ July and published in the RECORD of the 11th, a paragraph which man himself said : I send to the desk and ask to have read. I have reached a :point where I have carefully prepared my speech, and I there The Clerk read as follows: fore ask leave to prmt it- I regret very much, Mr. Speaker, that I have but little time lrft to review the or omething to that effect. presentation of these subjects made by the gentleman from New York, [Mr. HEWITT.] That presentation was specious, though it pretended to be candid; was But for myself I am not accustomed, l\.:Ir. Speaker, to say any· extrnva~ant, though it assumed to be careful ; was false, though it claim&l to be thing on this floor which I do not believe to ue a proper characteri­ frank. Though it wa-s evidently founded tlpon information gathered from the rna. zation of the subject-matter of which I treat. I repeat tllat th(j levolence and misrepresentations of others, the gentleman wbo pre en ted it gave it the stamp of his approval with all that reckless confidence which seems to be his ~eneral pre entation of the ca ·e as made by the gentleman froth nature when called upon to indorse anything which impugns the conduct or mis­ New York was specious, but not candid; that the pre entation was -represents the motives of others. But timo will only permit met{) answer him in fallacious, if he object to the word "false," ancl this it wa , though . general terms. I did not use the word false with any personal appliNttion to him­ Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Now, as I have said, I listened care­ that his pre entation was fallacious, though it purported to be true. fully and deliberately to the remarks of the gentleman from New I gave him credit then, and I am willing, if be wishes, still to a.t:l:ord .Jersey, and I am prepared to say that not one word of tbe paragraph him that credit, that he received his information from others; and I

... 1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6155

-only stated what I think still toLe true, that the defect of the gen­ him or ask this House to strike out anything of insinuation or any­ tleman's character-for he has defects which are known of all men­ thing of characterization of acts of mine, not of presentation, which is a too inconsequent and too reckless indorsement of the attacks are to be found here in hi speech. • made by other men upon the character and reputation of his friends. It is "a strain upon the charitable side" of my nature, I admit it, It comes perhaps from a defect in disposition which the gentleman ·to speak as guardedly upon this subject as I do now speak. I repeat -cannot help; bnt for my elf I honld have lo s confidence in my own again that I cannot say whether that exact language was repeated -character and shonld feelle s elf-respect in my own heart if I were on this floor or not; but I will say that there is no idea, no proposi­ willing always to imputethefalsestmotivesand the basestpurposes tion, no argument, contained in that printed speech which I would to every othcrruan. not readily repeat, and which I did not mean to say when I was on Now, Mr. Speaker, I find in the gentleman's peech here-not de­ the floor. livered upon this floor, but prepared deliuerutely beforehand and Mr. MILLER. Before the gent Ieman from New Jersey [ 1\h'. ROBE­ printed afterwm:d-many suggestions which I do not think would SO:Y] takes ill seat, I want to ask him a question. -escape all the criticism which be would wi h to impute to my utter­ .Mr. ROBESON. Oh! no, no. ancel:l. lle says among other things, I find in looking over the speech :Mr. MILLER. I want to know if the gentleman from New York now hastily: [Mr. HEWITT] is the same gentleman who certified that the Morey It is a strain on the charitable side of our natnre to refrain from charging crimi­ letter was genuine nal incapacity to any one who acause I do that if he as umes the responsibility of those acts, then every w ord not admire the nobleness or the courage of that animal which shrinks that I uttered, that those contracts wej_·e conceived in iniquity and from the face of living man but gather in packs to howl above his born in sin and that they were corrupt, may be fitted to the gentle­ grave. Mr. Speaker, that remark I make at least, and the reporter man and taken down as the charge I make against him. will find it in hi notes. If there is anything unparliamentary in Now, lastly, the language which I uttered was uttered· in this jt- House and in his presence, and he took no exception to it. B ut the Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Will the gentleman repeat that re­ language which I now seek to have stricken from the RECORD was markf I would like to hear it. I did not hear what be was saying. not uttered in this Hou e, but wa concocted by the gentleman in Mr. ROBESON, (raising-his voice.) I said that I did not attacK the private recesses of his own room, after five days of reflection in men who were quoted as experts in this debate, although I bad cause what manner he should make answer to the allegations I brought to ::tttack them; becanse I did not mean to lay my band upon the again t, not him, but against the administration of the Navy Depart­ _gravfl of any man, and because I did not admire the courage or the ment while be was its Secret::try. character, nor desired to imitate the conduct, of the animal that If he stands condemned, he stands condemned by no words of shrinks from the face of living man to howl its detestation over his mine; be is condemned by the record of fact which he made, and grave. every word of which I have derived, a I have assured him already, Mr. Speaker, as I have aid, it comes with an ill grace from the gen­ and assure this Hou e, not from the ources which be indicates, but tleman to question these remark·, becan e he says they were not ac­ from the answer to there olution which! introduced into this House tually delivered in debate. I may not be able now to say how much in J anuary la·t,made by the Navy Department,andfromtheofficial -of them was delivered, but I in1ended to deliver them, and I :1ccept reports made by boards of that Department; and not one sugges­ them now. I say again that Iris presentation was not frank, that it tion came from any individual whatever di charged from a navy­ was s-pecious, and although I will not say the gentleman tolLl :1 false­ yard or otherwise. hood, I do not wish to do that, I say his pre entation- and th::tt is It wa a careful attempt to ~et at the truth, ancl I uelieve I have tl1o language of that quotation-was fulse. If be prefers another got the truth. I think the eVJdence of it is that the gentleman hav­ "\vorcl I will Rnbstitute it-was fallaciou ; though it seems to be ing no adequate answer to make in fact, sit down, concoct , and frauk, though it was presented as frank, I characterized the pre­ perpetrates a foul libel upon a fellow-member who bad no oppor­ sentation, and I gave him lho credit in thatstatementofhavingre­ tunity to make answer to it. And there I leave the gentleman to ceived it from others, I said nothing nuparliamentary or unusual in­ ~et out of thi disagreeable predicament in which he ha placed thi ·. If tho gentleman desires to ba ve it stricken from that RECORD, himself a best he may. . it can be (lone; but it will all be in this RECORD, two or three times 1\ir. ROBESON. My p osition may be disagreeable to the gentle­ -4>Ycr. So that to sh-ike it out aruoll:nts to nothiug. But I will not ask man, qut it does not trouble me. The gentleman s:Lys that he mauo . ·.

6156 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 17~

his speech on the floor of this House. I ask him if he used these 1\fr. HEWITT, of New York. I submit to the Chair there is a pas­ words on the floor: sage in the printed speech the Chair would have ruled out of order­ It is a strain ~n the charitable side- if delivered on the floor, and I ask it be stricken out of the RECORD. The SPEAKER. The Chair would be called on in that case Mr. HEWITT, of New York. No; I did not. tc. Mr. ROBESON, (reading.) ascertain a question of fact, and that it cannot now enter upon. ­ ~fr. HEWITT, of New York. He admits the fact, and the stenog­ It is a strain on the charitable side of our nature to refrain from chargin"' crim­ rapher's notes are here. inal incapacity to any one who advised or directed these vessels shoul8 be re­ paired. The SPEAKER. The Chair will have to fincl the facts. ?!fr. HEWITT, of New York. The Chair has control of tLe REc­ That is the only thing I can now turn to. I would take the time, ORD. if it were worth while, to examine the RECORD in this respect, and The SPEAKER. The Chair has al o to investigate other que tions- I have no doubt I could find many more equally specious but equally in reference to it. false charges. . Mr. COX, of New York. Allow me, Mr. Speaker-- Now, the gentleman from New York has a specious reputation in The SPEAKER. For what purpo e does the gentleman rise f the country, which he earnestly cultivates through the columns of Mr. BROWNE. I demand the regular order of business. the newspapers and by the expenditltl'e of his private means, which The SPEAKER. The Chair will recognize the call for the reaular­ avail him alike for advertisement of himself and for the depreciation order of busine s. For what purpose does the gentleman rise! of others. I know something of his history. I shall not here recite it. :Mr. COX, ofNewYork If the gentleman makesthepointoforder But I do know that all that be is, and all that he has been, and all I will not ri e at all. that he hopes to be, he owes to the charity of an old man whom I The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Indiana makes the point ox heard him seek to depreciate on this floor. I heard him say in sub­ order. stance on this floor that he objected to being called "the son-in-law ?!fr. COX, of New York. I will not press it as I find I haven~ of Mr. Cooper," and he hoped the time would come when fr. Cooper's chance to make anv remarks. title of distinction would be that he was the father-in-law of Mr. Mr. BROWNE. 'I ask the House shall now go to the regular order­ HEWITT. [Laughter.] Now, 1\fr. Speaker,whereverliberalscience of busine s. We have had our usual matinee, and as the curtain ha&­ aids the mechanical arts, wher~ver well-applied charity builds up been rung down let us go to business. [Laughter.] and elevates the labor of American workingmen, there 1\fr. Peter Cooper's name will be known long after that of his aspiring son-in­ PEXSIO:Y APPROPRIATION BILL. lawis lost and forgotten-sunk to the grave, covered with the obloquy ~fr. O'NEILL. I move that the Senate amendment to the pension which he seeks to pile upon others. appropriation bill be taken from the Speaker's table, numbered, and Now, let me say that I could answer the gentleman if I chose in ordered to be printed, and referred to the Committee on Appropria-­ strains as abusive as his own. He knows, and I know, what was tions. the familiar epithet by which his romancing youth was character­ There was no objection, and it was ordered accordingly. ized in the State in which we both lived. ADMISSIO:Y OF DAKOTA. Now, then, I do not know that I ought to allude further to the gentleman after his remark. But this I will say, to point his attack Mr. BURROWS, of 1\lichigan. I am directed by the Committe on me: I think that the forgery of that document which was known on the Territories to move the suspension of the rules and the adop­ as the Morey letter was a crime of the deepest dye; and while I do tion of the foJlowing resolution: not charge the gentleman with having written it, I consider that the Resolved, That the rules be suspended so as to discharge the Committee of tb Whole House on the state of the Union from the further consideration of the bill ma,n who stood by the telegraph window and telegraphed to Cali­ of the House (H. R. No. 4456) to enable the people of the Territ{)ry of Dakota to fornia, too late for denial, and after the dead President had denied form a constitution and State govt:rnment, and for the admission of the tate into- . it circuml:ltantially, that it was ascertained to be true-- the Union on an equal footing with the original States, and make said bill a special Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Who did itT order for Wednesday~ December lil, 1882, and from day to day thereafter until ilia­ Mr. ROBESON. Committed a crime-- posed of, not to intertere with general appropriation bills. .Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Who telegraphed thaU Mr. CONVERSE. I demand a second . Mr. ROBESON. Committed a crime- The SPEAKER. Ifthere be no objecti~m, the second will be ordered.. Mr. HEWITI, of New York. Who did it! Who telegraphed· . Mr. CONVERSE. I object. thatt The SPEAKER appointecl as tellers lli. BURROW , of Michigan,_ Mr. ROBESON. The man who stood at the telegraph window and and Mr. Co~RSE. signed the name of the chairman of the Democratic committee-­ The House divided; and there were-ayes 93, noes 65. Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Who did itf Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. There is a mistake mad by th Mr. ROBESON. And telegraphed to California, too late for denial, Clerk. The count as I have it is-ayes 90, noes 65. that the statements of that letter were ascertained to be true-who The SPEAKER. The gentleman probably fell into orne error, but ever did that committed a crime, not as :Punishable, but as detest­ it is immaterial, as there is considerably more tha,n a quorum. able- The question recurs on the motion to su pend the rnles and adopt Mr. HEWITT, of New York. I did not do it. the resolution. Mr. ROBESON. As was the forgery of the original letter. I do The question was taken; and there were-yeas 102, nay 7(), not not know that it can be proved according to the strict letter of the voting 112; as follows : law, since I do not know how a ca,se can be made; but if the gen­ YEAS-102. tleman will ask for a Co~~essional investigation-- Aldrich, Fisher, Mookey, • cranton, Mr. HEWITT, of New xork. I do ask it. . Anderson, Ford, Mason, Shallenberger, Brewer, George,_ licUlure, ! 'hultz, Mr. ROBESON. I will aid him with all my might to obtain it, Briggs, Godshalk, lfcCoid, • mith, A . Herr and see if it was true. [Applause.] I will contribute toward a fair Buck, Guenther McKinley, • mith, Diet:Iich ~ investigation of the matter all that I have of influence, and then Burrows, Julius C. Hammond, John Miller, Rmith, J. Hyatt • Butterworth, Harmer Moore, Spooner, the gentleman may clear himself of what is believed against him in Campbell, · Harris, Benj. W. Neal, teele, this country-the maintenance after denial by the dead President Candler, Haseltine, O'Neill, , trait, of the truth of that forgery; and it cannot be denied that standing Cannon, Haskell, Orth, Thomas, before a court of j nstice-- Carpenter, Hazelton, Pachec{), Thompson, Wm. G~ :Mr. BROWNE. I demand the regular order. Caswell, Henderson, Parker, Tyler, Cha-ce, !!~l'bnrn, Peelle, Updegraff, .r. T. Mr. ROBESON. That standing before a court of justice he did, Crapo, .Hill, Peirce, Updegraff, Tho:m.as- in the face of the rebuke of the bench-- · Crowley, Horr, Pettibont3, Urner, The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Indiana, [Mr. BROW:SE] Cullen, Honk, Pound, Valentine, Darrall, Hubbell, Pres<:ott, VanAernam, make a point of order Y Davis, George R. Jooobs, Rannoy, Van Horn, Mr. BROWNE. Ye , sir. Dawes, .Tones, George W. Ray, Van VoGrhis, The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Indiana makes the point of Deering, Kasson, Rice, John B. Walker, of order that-- De Motte, Kelley, llice, Theron M. West, Dezendorf, Ketcham, Rich, White. ?rfr. BROWNE. I should have made it much earlier had I fore­ Dingley, Lacey, Ritchie, Williams, Chas. G~ seen the result of this debate. There have been two personal expla­ Dwight, Lewis, Robinson, Geo. D. Willits. nations and two attacks on each side, ancl I propose to insist that Farwell, Chas. B. Lord, Robinson, James S. we proceed with the regular business of Congress. Farwell, Sewell S. Lynch, Russell, The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks the point well taken. NAYS-76. Mr. BROWNE. In the first place, a a question of order, I insist Armfteld, Caldwell, Dowd, Hateh, t,hat gentlemen take their seats. Atherton, Carlisle, Ellis, Hewitt, .AbramS.. The SPEAKER. Tho Honse will come to 01·der. Gentlemen will Atkins, Chapman. Ermentrout, Hoblitzell, Barbour, Clement., EYins, Hoge, resume their seats. · Bayne, Cobb, ForntJy, Holman, Mr. HEWITT, of New York. So far as I am concerned, I see no Berry, Con• rse. Garrison, Honse, occasion to pursue this matter further, and only ask that the para­ BJ.a.nchard, Cook · - Geddes, Jlntchlns, graph to which I have referred be stricken from the RECORD. Bliss, Cox, William R. Gunter, .r.,nes, JamcsK.. Blount, Cravens, Hammond, :S. J. K(!nna, The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman insist th2t the Chair shall Buchanan, Culberson, Hardenbergl•, Klotz. rule on the matter of striking out 'f .Buckner, Dibrell, Ilmdy, Latham, 1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6157

..Leedom, Muldrow, Scoville, Upson, A. bill (H. R. No. 4914) granting a pensi~n to Emeline Pink; ..Manning, Phelp, Simonton, Vance, A. bill (H. R. No. 53 !2)granting a pension toPeterJ. Welshbillig; "Matson, Phister, Singleton, Otho R. Warner, McCook, :Randall, Thompson, P. B. Wellborn, A. bill (H. R. No. 5684) granting a pension to Newton Boutwell; .McLane, Reed, Tillman, Whitthorne, and Money, Robertson, Townshenu, R. W. Willis, A. bill (H. R. No. 6401) granting a pension to Amelia Ann Wilson :Morrison, Ro ecrans, Turner, llenry G. Wilson. and her minor child. Moulton, Scales, Turner, Oscar Wise, George D. KOT VOTING-112. 1\.IESSAGE FROM THE SR.t.~ATE. .Aiken, Davidson, Ladd, Ryan. A. message from the Senate, by Mr. SYMPSON, one of its clerks, J3arr, Davis, Lowndes H. Le :Favre, ~hackelford , announced that the Senate insisted upon its amendments disagreed .13each, Deust~r, Lindsey, Shelley, &lford, Dugro, Lowe, Sherwin, to by the House of Representatives to the bill (H. R. No. 6244) mak­ .$elmont, Dunn, Marsh, Singleton, .TM. W. ing appropriations for the lt>gislative; executive, and judicial ex­ ...Beltzhoov r, Dunnell, Martin, Skinner, penditures of the Government for the fiscal year 1883, and for other llin~ham, Errett, McKenzie, Sparks, purpo es, and agreed to the conference asked by the House on the ..Disbee, Flower, McMillin, Spaulding, :Black, Frost, Miles, Speer, disagreeing votes of the two Hou es thereon, and that the Senate .l3laekburn, Fulkerson, Mills, Springer, had appointed Messrs. ALLISON, DAWES, and DAVIS of West Vir­ lJhrnd, Gibson, Morey, Stephens, ginia as the managers of said conference on the part of the Senate. ..Bowman, Grout, Morse, Stockslager, The message further announced that the Senate disagreed to the .Bragg, Hall, Mosgrove, Stone, .:Browne, Harris, HelllJ S. Murch, Talbott, amendments of the House to the bill (S. No. 1819) granting an in­ .Drumm, Heilman, Mutchler, Taylor, crease of pension to Mrs. Elizabeth E. Custer. .Jlurrovrs, .ros. H. Herbert, Nolan, Townsend, .Amos The message also announced that the Senate had passed without Cabell, Herndon, Norcro s, Tucker, amendments bills of the House of the following titles : C alkins Hewitt, G. W. Oates, Wadsworth, Cam:p, ' Hiscock, Page, Wait, A. bill (H. R. No. 369) granting a pension to Jacob R. McFarren. Cox, SamuelS. Jorgensen, Richardson, .r. S. Wise, Mor~an R. A bill (H. R. No. 2481) for the relief of Dicey Bobbitt; .Covington, .rKin~yce, Robeson, Wood, BeDJamin A bill (H. R. No. 3316) granting a pension to David Darling; round the Cascades of the Columbia. River, in Oregon; the jetties and other 1\.lr. BINGII.ili with Mr. SPEAR. works of improvement at the South P ass of the Mississippi River, including the entire extent of thechaxtnel of the pass; and !!ll other ship-canals, locks, dams, and .Mr. You~ ~ G with Mr. CLARDY. harbors of rt>fuge that are now or may hereafter be built, operated. and kept in re­ Mr. RYA...~ with Mr. LEFEVRE. -pair by the United States f.:.r the nnpro>ement of navigation, so far as neces ary :A1r. SPAULDUW with Mr. DAVIS ofMi souri. to control the pa-ssaae through and regulate the use of those works. SBc. 2. That it sha'ii not be lawful for any person or persons to take pos ession ENROLLED BILLS SIG~D. of, or make use of for any exclusive purpo e, build upon, alt~r, deface, injure, ob­ struct, or in any other manner willfully or negligently impair the uRefulne s of any :Mr . .ALDRICH, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported sea-wall, bulk-head, jetty, wharf, pierl or other work built by the Unit~d States for -that the committee had examined antl found duly enrolled bills of the preservation and impro>ement ot any of it-s navigable waters, or boundary­ ·the House of tho following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: marks, tide-gauges, surveying-stations, buoys, or other established marks, nor re­ move for ballast or other purposes any stone or other material composing such A bill (H. R. No. 803) granting a pension to Laban Connor; works. A. bill (H. R. No. 1147) grant:i,ng a pension to Blizabeth Vernor SEc. 3. That it shall not be lawful to cast. or procure to be cast, throWII, emptied, !Ieury· or unladen, either from or out of any ship, vessel, or other craft, or from the shore, A bu'l (H. R. No. 1206) granting a pension to11Irs. KateL. Usher; pier, wharf, or mills of any kind. any ballast, stone, slate, gravel, earth, a-shes, rubbish, wreck, filth, slabs, edgings. sawdust. or mill waste of any kind, into any A. bill (H. R. No. 1451) granting a pension to Thomas W. Roth- port, road, roadstead, harbor, ha>enJ navigable river, orotherwatersof the United rock; States for the impnlvement of whicn Congress has made or may hereafter make A. bill (II. n. No. 1997) granting a pens]on to Joel R .. Carter; appropriations, nor depo it, or cause to be deposited or placed, any ballast stone, slate, gravel, earth, ashes, rubbish. wreck, :filth. slabs. edgings, sawdust, or other A bill(H. R. No. 2005)toincrea ethepensionofElijah W. Penny; mill waste in any place on shore where the same shall beliable to be washed into A. l1ill (H. R. No. 2278) for the relief of John H. Jackson; any navagable waters for the improYement of which the United States ha made A bill (H. R. No. 2349) granting an incroase of pension to George J. appropriations, either by ordinary hi gil tide or by storm or floods, or otherwise: 'Webb; 1-'·rwided, That nothing herein contained shall extend to the casting out, unlading, or throwing out of any ship, ' el, or other craft, any stones, rocks. lime, bricks, A bill (H. R.No. 3581) granting a pension tollis. Lizzie :U.Mitchell; or other material used, or to be u ed, in or toward tile building or repairing of any A bill (H. R. No. 4372) for the relief of Robert P. Walker; quay, pie.r, wharf, bridge, weir, or other ,..-ork lawfully erected, or to be erected, J

6158 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 17,

on the banks or sides of any port., harbor, or ch:!Dnel, or within any navigable place all works of improvement in the navigable water of the United States un­ waters where such works are in pro~s, or depositing of any material excavated der the supervision of the Secretary of War while the said impro>em uts were for the imprc.vement of navigable waters int-o such places and in such manner as in course of construction, and they have usually remained under hi direction may be deemed by the United States officer supervising said work most judicious aft rward so far as needing governmental supervi'lion. :md for the best interest of such improv~ments. There is no constitutional provision giving to the Secretary of War supervision SEC. 4. That every person, persons, or corporation offending against the second over any of the navigable waters of the United States, nor any statutory provi - and thh·d sections of this act shall, for each and every offense, forfeit and pay a ions except as to each particular work, as the case has arisen, and then limited penalty of ~250, (one-half, on conviction of the offendex;. to be paid to the informer,) mainly to such authority as gave the Secretary cu tody and control for the pur­ besides such further sum as may be found, in any action for the recovery of the pose of making such works available for their several purposes and the subse­ penalty or penalties incurred underthis act., to be the expeuseofmaking good the quent keeping of them in repair. damage incurred or of removing to a proper place the things deposited in violation It has been the custom of the War Department to publish notice of uch regu­ of this act; such p nalties to be recoverable by and in the name of the United lations as were deemed necessary at the several ship-canals and other works of States, with costs, in any circuit or district court of the United States, at the suit improvement in charge of the Department, but if resisted they lack the force of of any district attorney, in any district where or near where the offense shall have law which it is the design of this bill to supply. been committed or where the offender t>hall be. There have been instances of temporary occupation of piers as landinA'-places for EC. 5. That the Secretary of War shall establish such regulations as he ball cargoes which, by their weight, nnght injure the works; but in most cases the deem needful to re)rl.llate the movement of vessels through and in the various practice was discontinuE-d upon notification. waters enumerated in section one of this act so as to avoia damage to each other There are instances of injury to piers from collision of vessels, from carele sness or injury to the public improvements at those :places; and he shall cause such reg­ as well as from unavoidable causes. ulations to be promulgated by public notice ~~~en in such newspapers as he may There areal. o instances of willful injury arising from the pulling up of the deck­ deem suitable to give them the greatest publicity; and such regulations may, in planks of wooden piers for the purpose of tying vessels. like manner, be cnanaed from time to time; and any person Willfully or negli­ There are instances of serious injury to na~igable waters by the discharge of gently interfering with, or obstructing, or attempting to obstruct the free use of saw-mill waste into streams; al o from booms for lo"'s being placed in such a way such improvements, in violation of the regulations aforesaid in this section, shall a to seriously, and ometimes totally, impede navigation; and also instances of be guilty of a misdemeanor, and. on conviction thereof, shall be punished by a. removal of stone from wing-dams, and of breaking openin~s throu~rh them for the fine of not exceeding $500, or imprisonment for not more than six months, or both, passa~e of small boats or running of logs, thus rendering the dams incapable of at the discretion of' the court. And any person who shall willfully or negligently effecting the object for which they were built. strand or sink any vessel, boat, or craft in any of' the waters and within the works There are instances of injury to water-gauges permanently e:~tablisbed for the aforesaid, or in tile channels or approaches thereto, or shall ob truct the superin­ record of fluctuation of water surface. tendent or his authorized aaent in enforcing the regulat1ons of the Secretary of In fall.·-ways of harbors, channels are injured from deposits of ballast, steamboat War in any of the said worl~s or impro~ements, shall be liable tp like penalties. a hes, oy ters, and rubbish from passing vessels. SEc. 6. That it shall be the duty of the officers and agents having the super­ In some in. tances the local authorities ha.ve exercised a control Qver the publio vision on the part of the United States of the works completed or in progress for works in their "Vicinity, and in most cases the tre pas or inj m·y has been corrected the preservation and improvement of said navigable waters, and, in their ab ence, upon notification. · the United States collector of customs and other revenue officers, to enforce the So long as works are in progress and in charge of an officer or agent these evils provisions of this law by giving information to the district attorney of the United are rare, but as they pass out of his hands they are at the mercy of evil-disposed States nearest to the place where any violation of any provi. ion of this act shall persons. have been committed, an4 the said prosecuting .o~cer ha~ immediately proceed It is the design of this bill to coverall cases of tre pass on United States grounds aaaiust the offender or oftenders under the prondons of this act. and structures; to cover all ca. es of negligent as w ll as willful injury; to cover "'SEc. 7. That whenever the Secretary of War is reliably informed, or has reason not only river, harbor, and navigation works, but also all structures or marks es­ to believe, that in any port or harbor, navigable river, or the approaches to any tablished by the United States, so as to include all boundary-marks, tide-gauges, ship-canal of the United States navigation is impeded, or shoals, bars, or other im­ stations, buoys, &c. pediments to navigation have been created by reason of' the improper extension The special act of Congress (18 Stat. L., part 3, p. 30) for the protection of the of wharves, piers, or other structures into hal'bors or rivers, under the authority work in progress for the improvement of the navigation of tbe mouths of the oflocallaws or by individuals without such authority, or that the future useful­ Mississippi by dredging has proved defective, inasmuch as it re9_nil'es proof of ness of such harbors or rivers or approaches to ship-canals is imperiled by such malice or mtention, instead of simple proof of fact of injury or hnpediment to navi­ structures to the injury of CO!,JUDerce, he shall cause to be made by the Corps of gation. Engineers of the Army full and complete survey and examination of such harbor In the ca e of the Louisville and Portland Canal, and at the harbor of refuge or river or entrance to ship-canal, and plans and descriptions thereof showin~ the at Sand Beach, Lake Huron, experience has shown the necessity of some enact­ depth of water in the same, and the location, size, and description of all piers, ment tore~ate the movement of vessels therein, to a>oid danger to >es els and wharves, and other structures, and obstructions therein, and the extent to which injury to toe works. the same encroach upon thE' channels and water-ways used for navigation, and The Sault Ste Marie Ship-canal bas just pass d from under the authority of tho further to lay down and mark on such plans and descriptions lines which should State of Michigan, and that of the nited States, excl'pt by presumption of law, limit the boundaries within which any wharf, pier, or other obstruction shall there­ has not yet attached. At that place proper police regulations resting on authority after be erected, constructed, placeCt, or projected in any harbor, or navigable are indispensable. · stream, or entrance to ship-canal ; and such plans or descriptions shall be on a Your committee have sought information from the Secretary of War and from scale and of a kind to be fixed by the Secretary of War, so that theymaybo easily the Chief of Engineers of the War Department, and from these and snch other understc.od and examined by all parties interested; and the Secretary of War shall sources of knowledge a were available they are convinced of the urgent n ed of be, and is hereby authorized, upon the application of any State, or the principal such legislation as the bill under coli.Sideration propo es, and report it back by authority of any city, town, or county, to which the harbor or navigable waters substitute and recommend its passage. . of any snch plan and description pertains, to have the same lithographed, or oth­ The committee annex and make apartoftheirreport a letter from the Secretary erwise copied, at the expense of aid State or municipal authority, and t.o supply of War, dated the 14t.b instant. such number of copies thereof as they may require. . SEc. 8. That if it shall be found by the officers making such surveys, examina­ tions, plans, and descriptions that there are any existing wharves, piers, or other w .AR DEP.ARTlfRYT, obstructions in any harbor or navigable waters sw·veyed, examined, planned, and WaBhington Oity, March 14, 1882. de..'lcribed by t.hem which are injurions to and impede the navigation thereof by Sm: I have the honor to transmit herewith, in response to your request, and for being situated beyond .the lines established by them, they shall so report to the the information of the Committee on Railways and Canals, a report of the Chief Secretary of War, to the end that proper steps may be taken by Congress for the of Engineers upon bill H. R. £o. 4319, declaring and defining the jurisdiction of removal of the same by compensation to the owners thereof. if the same have been the United States over certain ship-canals and other navigable waters, and for the erected by State or municipal authority, or if not erected by such authority, then regulation and uses of certain public work , and for their care a.nd pr ervation, to take order for the removal thereof as nuisances by proper legal proceedings. and. to invite your attention to the amendments suggested by the Chief of Engi­ SEc. 9. That it t>hall furthl'r be the duty of the Secretary of War, when be is neers, the propriety of w bich is concurred in by me. reliably informed that in any port, harbor, navigable river, or entrance to any ship­ The necessity for such a law, particularly in respect to those works which are canal of the United S~ates navi~ation is about to b': imped_ed by the improper ex­ operated by the United States, bas been represented to Congress in former reports tension of wharves, p1ers, or otner structures, to give nobce to the party or par­ of the Chief of Engineers, and I arnestly recommend the passage of the bill as ties about to make such wharves, piers, or other structures that he will order an modified by him. immediate survey of' such place or places; and when notice thereof shall have been Very respectfully, given it shall not be lawful for such party or parties to proceed in the erection of ROBERT T. LINCOLN, such wharves, piers, or ot.her structures until the Secretary of War shall have Secreta1-y of War. rendered his decision thereon, which shall be subject t.o an appeal to the Federal Hon. H. W. LORD, House of .Representatices. courts. SEC. 10. That no bridge shall be built across any navigable river or ship-canal 1\Ir. LORD. I do not care to take the time of the House in pre­ until a plan in duplicate showing the location and situation thereof shall have been presented to the Secretary of War and approved by him; and his approval, if given, senting anything in addition to what has been read from the report shall be certified on one of said plans, and the duplicate thereof shall be re­ of the committee except simply to say this is a bill of very great con­ tained and preserved in the War Department: Provided, That this act shall not sequence, its object being to supply the Secretary of War witJ! au­ • be construed so as to give authority to erect such bridge without an act of Con­ thority he has never had for the regulation of the various !:!hip-canals gress. SEc. 11. That such sums of money as may be •ecessary to execute the provisions and water-ways of the country on which the Government has of this act are hereby appropriated out of any money in the Treasury of the United expended· money for the improvement thereof. St.a.tes not otherwise appropriated, to be paid out on the requisition of the Secre­ The Secretary of War puts up serie of notices and regulations iu tary of War. all such places, and they have a kind of deten-ingeffecton mariners Mr. HOLMAN. I ask for a econd upon that motion. and others who would encroach and trespass upon those works. But A second was ordered. he assures me he has no authority whatever, and no prcdeces or of Mr. LORD. If in order, I would like to have the report of the his has had any authority to enforce the rule which they have pub­ committee read in this case. lished and endeavored to make binding on the e various water-ways. The SPEAKER. It can only be done in the gentleman's own time. I have in my hand a letter whlch has come to me this morning, a Mr. LORD. How much time have I~ letter from an exten ive commercial establishment of Michigan and The SPEAKER. The gentleman has :fifteen minutes. Ohio, in whi0h they say in some of the harbors of Northern 1\lichi­ Mr. LORD. It may be read, then, in my time; and there is also gan where money has been expended for improvement they are en­ connected with it, which I desiretohaverea.d, a letter from the pres­ tirely unable to use the motive power of their own stoamuoats ou ent Secretary of War upon the subject. account of the floating logs and other ob tructions, and that they The report wa-s read, as follows : are compelled to employ tug-boats to tow their vessels through the e The Committee on Railways and Canal , to whom was referred the bill (H. R. harbors; and when they have appealed to the engineer repreHenting No. 4319) declaring and defining the jurisdiction of the United States over certain the United States in that district, he ha informed thorn that un­ ship-canals and other navigable waters, and for the regulation and use of certain lesssomesuchbill as this now pending uepass d there is no authority public works, and for their care and preservn.tion, have considered the same, and I'6spectfully Teport: whatever by which those water-ways can be cleared for those steam­ 1L has been the custom of the country during most of the period of its hist-ory to boats so that they can be propelled by th ir own motive power. Bot 1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6159

I do not desire to discuss the bill, because it has been well discussed Mr. HUBBELL. The gentleman cannot well do that, for that on its merits in the report. would be giving away the whole bill. .Mr. CANNON. I desire to ask the gentleman from Michigan a Mr. LORD. Oh, no! qnt:Jstion . Is this bill in accordance with the views of the Secretary 1\Ir. HUBBELL. Yes, it does. Vessels by throwing out ballast, of War and substantially the same as he approves at the close of his or throwing overboard part of their cargoe , might cause obstructions letter Y to navigatwn, and you cannot wait until you come to Congress for Mr. LORD. It is the very same bill, with every provision in it an appropriation to remove them. You mu&t have money sufficient that the Secretary of War and the Chief of Engineers have suggested. to remove all such temporary obstruction . I have been through it very carefully with both those officers, para­ Mr. RANDALL. I am inclined to think that it is rather a loose bill, graph by paragraph, and the bill meets their entire approbation. and one that should be cliscwsed at some length and not pas ed in lloth the Secretary of War and the Chief of Engineers desire that this way. this bill shall pass. Mr. KENNA. If the gentleman apprehends that in the final sec­ I yield five minutes to my colleague on the committee, the gentle­ tion of tlte bill too much money will be appropriated, a limit might man from West Virginia, [Mr. KE:NNA.] be su~gested which I think would be acceptable to the friends of" Mr. KENNA. It had not been my purpose to say anything on the bill. There is no purpose whatever on the :part of the commit­ this bilL I will remark, however, that the object of the committee tee to appropriate any large sum of money. in preparing ancl reporting it wa to report. a general bill to prevent Mr. RANDALL. Well, say $5,000. obstruction to navjgable water of the United States. The com­ 1\lr. KENNA. I am willing, if that is acceptable to the other mem-- mittee was unanimous, I believe, in the opinion that the bill as drawn bers of the committee. accomplishes that purpo e. It was not intended that it should in 1\Ir. LORD. Five thousand dollars annually. any way interfere with the rights of any person, except to the extent Mr. CARLISLE. I would like to ask the gentleman a que tion. to which it became necessary to accomplish the main object of the 111r. KENNA. Certainly. bill. Mr. CARLISLE. Is it the purpose of this bill, when some party The bill as originally drawn gave to the Secretary ofWar ab olute without authority has obstructed the navigation of a river, to au­ and final control over the que tion as to what did or what did not thorize the Secretary ofWarto use the public money to remove that constitute an ob truction. Someofthecommitteethoughtthat-was obstruction improperly placed there by some one Y going rather too far, and an amendment being offered the commi4 Mr. KENNA. The purpose of the bill was to authorize the Secre-­ tee adopted it, to provide that an appeal should lie from his decision tary of War to remove such obstructions. to the deci ion of the F ederal courts. As that clause is embraceu in 1\Ir. CARLISLE. The party putting them there should be required the bill, it seems to me in every way well calculated to accompli h to remove them. the object intended. Mr. KE}.~A. Suppose that _he does not; suppo e he is not able to Section 9 winds up with the provision referring to the decision of do so. the Secretary of War, and sn,ys it shall be subject to an appeal to Mr. CARLISLE. Suppose that a bridge has been so constructed the Federal court. I am not sure that the court would understand in Yiolation of the authority conferred upon the company by Con­ exactly how to deal with a provision of that sort; and I want to gress as to impede the navigation of a river; ought the Government suggest to my friend from Michigan that with the consent of the of the United States to pay for removing that obstruction~ other memuers of the committee and of the Honse he should accept M.r. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. There is no authority in thi of a modification of that clan e. I have made a dtaft which I think bill, as I understand it, for the Secretary of,Var to remove such ob­ will meet the difficulty; but if not satisfactory some other may be structions. He is simply authorized to make an examination and suggested in lieu of it: report to Congress. Subject, however, to revi ion by the Federal conrts upon petition for permit to 1\Ir. KENNA. There is no danger of that sort, becan&e there are­ erect such structure, and notice thereof of at least thirty days to the United States no bridges constructed over navigable waters of the United States district attorney. except by con ent of Cong~·e s ; and hence they do not come within I add, at the suggestion of the gentleman from Kentucky, [1\lr. the provisions of thi bill. CARLISLE,] "district courts." I think there will be no objection, Mr. ROBINSON, of l\Ia achu etts. I think if the gentleman Mr. Speaker, to that change of the phraseology1 if it be acceptable from Kentucky [Mr. CARLISLE] will examine ections 7 and 8 of this to the gentleman from Michigan, [Mr. LORD,] tor it does preci ely bill he will find that it does not give any such authority. I have what the committee intends to do by the language of the bill. examined the bill very clo ely, and I do not think any such author-­ Mr. RANDALL. I de ire to a k the gentleman a question. I ob­ ity is Qiven to the Secretary of War. serve that the last section makes au appropriation of money. What Mr. DAWES. I want to call attention to section 3 of this bill, is the probable cost of paying the tolls on the e canals f which provides that it hall not be lawful to cast slabs, edgings, Mr. KENNA. There is no paying of tolls on canals. sawdust, or mill waste of any kind into any navigable river or other Mr. RANDALL. I itnotprovided thatthe Secretaryof\Varmay waters of the United States for the improvement of which Congre take possession of the canals 'I has made or may hereafter make appropriations; or to deposit any Mr. KENNA. The pos ession referred to in the bill is a jurisdic­ mill waste or sawdust or ashes on the shore where the same may be tion simply with reference to controlling the manner in which they liable to be washed into any such navigable waters. shall be conducted and the uses of them. Now, along the Ohio Rivertherearesaw-millswhicharedoingthis Mr. RANDALL. Not interfering with them in other respects f all the time, as a matter of course. It does not impede navigation at­ Mr. KENNA. No, sir; I cannot state the probable co t except in all; there is no danger that there will result from it any damage to· this way. The appropriation contained in the last clause is in­ navigation. But under this bill any such act is made unlawful. tended to be of such amount as may be necessary to enable the Sec­ And every person, persons, or corporation offending against the sec­ r.etary of War to direct an inquiry where an inquiry shall become ond and third sections shall for each and every offense forfeit and necessary to ascertain whether what maybe complained of amounts pay a penalty of !i\250, one-half, on conviction of the offender, to go to an obstruction. It. is necessary for him to have some amount at to the informer. Now the point I wish to raise is whether this does his di posal to allow of such investigation. not endanger an inquisition upon the saw-mill men along the Ohio Mr. RANDALL. But the work would extend to a removal of the River anrl. along the Kanawha River, repre en ted by the gentleman obstruction as well as to the inquiry as to the matter, would it nott from West Virginia, [Mr. KE~"NA.], I would inquire whether this pro-­ Mr. KENNA. It may go to that extent. vision in relation to a hes or mill-wa te of any kind does not endan­ Mr. LORD. This bill is not expected to furnish the Secretary of ger the rolling-mill men who are doing the same thingf It uoes not War with money for the removal of obstructions. obstruct navigat.ion; it does not injure the channel of the river; but Mr. RA.NTIALL. I think the language would warrant that con­ under this act it is made an offense liable to a penalty of ~50, of which struction. If the gentleman would make it plainer, and confine the the informer is to get one-half. expenditure of the money to an inquiry as to whether there was an Mr. KENNA. I do not take any stock in that clause of the bill obstruction or not, and then require them to come to Congre s, if which gives one-half of the penalty to the informer. I have never there be an obstruction, to obtain the money to remove it, it would been in favor of any such provision of law. My observation and be better. experience have taught me that such provi ions usually operate to .Mr. LORD. The object is simply to place at the disposal of the obstruct the enforcement of the law. But that would not affect the­ Secretary of War such small appropriation as would be necessary, mill men of which my friend speaks, unless these cinders, &c., for instance, if an engineer was ent to examine as to the. construc­ amount to an ob truction of the navigation, and if so it ought to­ ~.ion of a pier or the situation of a. mill or a wharf. aftect them. Mr. RANDALL. I have no objection to a provjsion making an 1\lr. ROBINSON, of l\Ias achusetts. It i not so r e tricted in the· appropriation of money to cover the expenses of an inquiry. But bill. to give full authority to the Secretary of War to involve tlte Gov­ ~1r . BAYNE. The -whole purpose of the bnl is to provide that ernment in tho expense of removing whatever may be· determined such things shall not impede or interfere with the navigation of any by the eu~neers to be an obstruction is, I think, going too far. of these navigable streams. Mr. L011D. I think the committee would be entirely willing to Mr. HOLMAN. I will now yield three minutes to the gentleman accept any such amendment as the gentleman would suggest. lt is from Kentucky, [Mr. WILLIS.] simply intended to place in the hands of the Secretary of War a Mr. WILLIS. I am in full accord with the object of the committee 1:mfficient appropriation to cover the expenses of the inquiry. as pre en ted in this bill. I ha\e myself, at the suggestion of anum-- 6160 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 17, ber of.river men, introduced a bill simiill.r to this in some of its pro­ to the informer. It requi.res neither a prophot noi' the son of a visions. But I do not think that a bill so important as this, and prophet to ee that under this inducement of half the penalty, w bich which is unquestionably, a shown by the debate on this floor, sus­ is fixed at S250, parties would unhesitatingly go to a comt where ceptible of different interpretations even by lawyer , should be pas ed they will not be liable for costs, where they will have an attoruey to in this hu.rried way. ltistoo graveandimportant a matter to come pro ecute their suit without expense to themselves; where they will up in a short debate of twenty or thi.rty minutes. have all to gain and nothing to lose. I prediot that if this bill be­ I find that by the fi.rst section of the bill various canals are placed comes a law there will be hundTeds, and I would not e'Xaggerato it in the charge of the Government, a provision which, of course, im­ if I should say thousands, of lawsuits commenced in the Federal plies and carries with it an appropriation to operate them. Whether courts all through the country under the thi.rd and fourth sections all these canals are now under the charge of the Government I doubt of this bill. if a single gentleman on this floor can now tell. I know that three Let us not bind our people down with new criminal laws and d - ' of tllem are; I believe that three or four are not. That is one qtles­ liver them over to the Federal court to be prosecutecl and persecuted tion suggested by the fi.rst section of the bill. a way from home, in strange courts as long as cupidity may tempt tho I nnd also that the Secretary of War is autliorized to make regu­ avaricious, or malice urge the vmdictive1 to prosecute. \Ve havo lations, which may be right or wrong, and no appeal is allowed to be seen too much ofFederal court oppressions already. \Ve have alreauy taken from them. I think that section 5 ought to be carefully hearu complaints against its usurpations which were but too well guarded.· founded. Let the representatives of the American people remember In the concluding portion of the bill, as I flnd by this hurried re­ that these are the courts of which Mr. Jefferson said: view, appropriations which may amount to millions of dollars axe The great object of my fear is the Federal judiciary. That body, like gravity, made to carry out the provhlions of the bill. No one with this bill ever actin~, with noiseless foot and unalarming advance, gaining ground step by before him and observing the dutie imposed upon the Secretary of step, and noliling what it gains, is ingnlfing insidiously tlie special governments War undeT it can say that the appropriations authorized bythelast into the jaws of that which feeds them. * * * Yet be not weary of well-doing. section may not extend to bundTeds or thousands and perach·enture Let the eye of ngilance bever be closed. to millions of dollars. Let u heed his admonitions to-day and put the stamp of our dis- Mr. DUNN. I wish to ask the gentleman whether this bill author­ approval on this bill. . izes the Secretary of War to remove railroad bridges across navi­ Furthermore, I wish to call attention to the fact that it is made gable rivers which are not now complained of by steamboat men penal not only to throw sawdust, slabs, edgings, &c., into the water­ but which were built without authority of Congress' cour e itself, but to throw them anywhere under such circumstances Mr. WILLIS. I find in section 10 a reference to bridges; but my that they may by the floods be drifted int.o navigable waters. It is examination of the bill has of course been very hurried; and whether a well-known fact that all the interior part of our country is drained it goes to the extent indicated by the gentleman's inqui.ry I am not by navigable rivers; and you can hardly conceive of a place where prepared to say. a saw-mill could be established where this refuse matter might not Mr. LORD. The bill has nothing to uo with bridges except where at flood-tide be washed into a navigable river. . they impede navigation. Sir, a crutiny of section 6 reveals to us the fact that not only the Mr. WILLIS. In the few moments remaining to me I will say tempt.ation of one-half the penalty is held out to drum up volun­ that with the objects of the bill I most cordially sympathize. I rec­ teer prosecutor of mill men, but the United States collector of cus­ ognize the necessity of regulations that shall control the navigation toms and ''other revenue officers" are forced to spy out violations .of om maritime highways. I recognize the necessity of some well­ of this law. It is in this language: guarded legislation which will keep unobstructed the channels of SEc. 6. That it shall be the duty of the officel'S and a~ents having the supervis­ our great 1·ivers. But I do insist that this is a question which ought ion on the part of the United States of the works completed or in progress for the to come up deliberately and be discussed carefully before we put a preservation and improvement of said navigable watersJ...and in their absence the United States collector of customs and other revenue omcers, to enforce the pro­ measure of this sort upon the statute-book. nsions of this law by giving information to the district attorney of the Umted Mr. HOLMAN. I now yield for a few minutes to the gentleman States neare t to the place where any violation of any provision of this act shall from Tennessee, [Mr. McbiiLLIN.] have been committed, and the said prosecuting officer shall immediately proceed Mr. McMJLLIN. lli. Speaker,Ihave given some attention to the against the ofl'ender or offendel'S under the provisions of this act. bill now under consideration, and am compelled to state, in candor, Sir, not only are these anomalous provisions found in the Lill under 1 do not believe that there could be devised in the same number of consideration but the doors of the Treasury are thrown open, and lines any more efficient means of encouraging the institution of law­ without stint or limit those who are enforcing the law are let in. suits which would be harassing in their nature. I say this with Section 11 makes the appropriation in the following language: all doference to the committee reporting the measure, for I have no That such sums of money as may be necessary to execute the -provisions of this idea that such was their intention. Si.r, let us scrutinize the pro­ act are hereby appropriated., out of any money in the Treasury of the United States visions of this extraordinary bill. Section 3 provides as follows: not othenvise appropriated, to be paid out on the requisition of the Secretary of SEc. 3. That it shall not be laWful to cast, or procure to be cast, thrown, emptied, War. or unladen, either from or out of any ship, ve sel, or other craft, or from the shore, What ane, patriotic legislator would, after his attention is called pier, wharf, or mills of any kind, any balla t, stone, slate, grav l, earth, ashes, -rubbish, wreck, filth, slabs, edgings, sawdust, or mill waste of any kind, into any to the fact, give such an unbridled rein to officer . Any amount could -port, road, roadstead, harbor, ba"\"en, navigable river, or other waters of the United be taken, from one dollar to one hundred million. .States for the improvement of which Congress has made or may hereafter make Now, from my experience and observation for years of the opera­ appropriations, nor deposit, or cause to be deposited or placed, any ballast, srone, tions of some of the £nest saw-mills in the country, I know that t.hey slate, gravel, earth, ashes, rubbish, wreck, filth, slabs, edgings, sawdust, or other mill waste in any place on shore where the same shall be liable ro bQ wa-shed inro are no impediment to navigation whatever. .A.t the capital of my any navigable waters for the improvement of which the United St.ates bas made State and all the way uptheCnmberlandRiveryouencounter:finemills .appropriations, either by ordinary high tides or by srorms or floods, or otherwise. which have been running for years, and still there has been no com­ It will be seen from this that it is made unlawful to ''cast slabs, plaint; no trouble has ever arisen, &nd none will. Our people have -edgings, sawdu t or mill waste of any kinu into a navigable river been carried to the Federal courts on other questions, and they are or other waters of the United States fo.r the improvement of which jealous of the unneces ary yielding of crinlinal juri diction to those Congress bas made or may hereafter ma.ke appropriations." Is this courts. In their behalf I protest against it. [Here the b,ammer fell.] Congress ready to enact such a law! .Are members going to place Mr. HOLMAN. I yield for two minutes to the gentleman from every mill-owner they represent in a condition to be indicted for .Arkan a , [Mr. DUNN.] -dropping their sawdust and slabs in the river I answer, no! We Mr. DUNN. Mr. Speaker, I a~ked a question a few moments ago will never do it till we are ready to prove .recreant to our trusts. in reference to the provisions of this bill, because I am not informed Mr. Speaker, I now call attention to tbe heavy pemtlty to be in­ as to the powers intended to be conferred by it. It so happens that flicted for a viola.tion of this bloody tatute. Section 4 is in this all the railroad bridges in my State have, with one single exception, language: been built without any enabling act by Congress. The navigation of the rivers has not been obstructed thereby; and the steamboat SEC. 4. That every person, persons, or corporation offending against the second .and third section of this act shall, for each and e>ery offense, forfeit and pay a men have made no complaint.· But I presume that upon inspection p nalty of $250, (one-half, on conviction of the offender, to be paid rotheinformer,) the ·war Department would find that those bridges did· not come up besides such further sum as may be found, in any action for the recovery of the to the requirements of this bill, and they might be declared ob true- penalty or penalties incurred under this act, to be the expense of making ~ood thedamaze incurred or of removing to a proper place the things deposited in VIola­ tiona to navigation. . tion of this act; such penalties to be recoverable by and in the name of the United Rail.road business might be seriously obstructed. They might . Stat~ , with costs, in any circuit or district court of the United States, at the pile up costs· merely for the purpose of making fees for some in­ suit of any disn·ict attorney, in any district where or near whore the offen e formers or district attorney, or to enable one road to inflict an in­ shall ba.>e 'been committed or where the offender shall be. jury on another, or the enemies of a road inflict an injury on it. I Sir, I have tho honor to represent constituents living on three navi­ should regret to see this bill pass before it can be understood. I gable rivers-the Cumberland, Caney Fork, anu Obeds Rivers--em­ have had no opportunity to thoroughly examine it and do not-know bracing about three hundred mile-s of navigable water-course upon exactly its full scope. I judge from the character of the argumen-ts · tho banks of which, from one end to the other, a.re saw-mills. They made here that everything which has not been heretofore aut~or­ are at Rome, Carthage, Celina, and other l)Oints. And where are ized by Congre sand does not happen to come up to the requue­ these prosecutions to b ' Not before the magistrates of the county; ments of the War Department might be assailed under the opera­ not in the State couTts, but in that too often en~ine of oppression, tions of this act and great injury inflicted where there is no real tho Fecteral court. Aud how f At the instance of any man who may complaint now a.e.d no harm done. I hope the gentleman will with- be greedy enough to desire to obtain the penalty, half of which goes dTaw his bill and give members time to consider it . · 1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. 6161

Mr. KENNA. I wish to add to what the gentleman has said an­ be exposed, constructors have heret-ofore necessarily been ~ded to a great ex­ tent by rules deduced from European experiments, comparatively few in number-l other SUO'gestion-- differing in their character, in the methods of manufacture of the materials, ana. Mr. LORD. I feel convinced from the tone of the Houseinregard of their use from those of our own country; and in nearly every case made with to this matter, it is impossible such an extensive proposition can specimens of small dimensions cut from the piece to be te ted. The slight de­ pass under a suspension of the rules and upon so short consideration, pendence placed on these rules is shown by the practice of our engineers, who have habitually proportioned their works to carry from five to ten times the strain and th~refore, with permission of the House, I will withdraw it for which could come upon them, this large allowance being made to cover the ex­ the present with a hope of getting it before the House with fuller istin~ uncertainty as to the actual strength of the materials in the forms and di­ information and more time for its consideration. mensia.ns of practice. Recent experiments tend to show that the relative strength Mr. WILLIS. Let the gentleman change his motion a.nd fix a day of materials in lar~e pieces is less thau that of the small specimens heretofOre used for tests. This renders it probable that many structures in constant use do in December next for its consideration. not possess the surplus of strength the~ were supposed to have, and also that Mr. COX, of New Yo:tk. Oh, no; tke bill ought to be killed. many of the accidents involving loss of life and destruction of property are to be Mr. LORD. I withdraw the bill. attributed to the lack of accurate knowledge of the materials employed. These and many other considerations prove the necessity of testing materials TESTING MATERIALS OF BRIDGES, BUILDINGS, ETC. of the full size of the members to be used in actual structure . Such tests, pro:e­ erly conducted, will enable the constructor to give his works am~le and sate The SPEAKER. The next committee under the call is the Com­ dimensions without that excess of weight which is sometimes in itself a source of mittee on Manufactures. danger and a limit to the capabilities of construction. Everything which tends to the ~eater security of structures, of bridges, roofs, Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Speaker, I have been directed by the Com­ walls, tloors, &c., is of direct interest to the general public, and is a fact so plain mittee on Manufactures to move to suspend the rules and pass the as to need no discussion. bill (H. R. No. 4726) authorizing the President to appoint a commis­ Tho proposed commission would promote largely the interests of I::tanufactures sion of experts, skilled in the investigation, production, and use of by indicating to them the value of different methods of obtaining strength, and, of still greater moment, securing uniformity in their productions. metallic substances and other structural materials, to execute tests Its work would affect the intere ts of the public by the economies it will pro­ and experiments on iron, steel, and other materials used in the con­ mote. Bridges, warehouses, and other structures may be built not. only of safer struction of bridges, buildings, and mechanical structure , and de­ proportions but at dimini bed cost. During the year.1ust passed some 801000 tons duct useful rules therefrom. of iron and steel were used in bridges, one-third of this being in forms m which the materials are proportioned solely upon theoretical considerations, not verified The SPEAKER. The bill will be read. by experiments upon the actual scale ofpractice. The Clerk read as follows: But tht' largest single user of materials of construction is the General Govern­ Be it enacted, cl:c., That the President of the United States be~ and be is hereby, ment. A hundred new publio buildings will probably be erected during the pres­ authorized to appoint a commission of seven members, selectea. from among men ent year, in the construction of all of which iron and steel will largely enter. The skilled in the investigation, production, and use of metallic substances and other consumption of these materials in them will probably reach 25,000 or 30,000 tons. structural materials to hold their appointment during the pleasure of the Presi­ A more thorough knowledge of the characteristics of the materials and the meth­ dent of the United States, which commission shall plan and superintend the exe­ ods for securing uniformity of quality might easily effect a saving of 10 per cent. cution of such tests and investigations of materials used extensively in the con­ upon this quantity, say $250,000 in the single year. struction of buildings, bridges, ships, and other structures, and machinery, as it The science and practice of metallurgy are making great pro~ss. New pro­ shall think most important to be made, and from time to time publish results of ducts are constantly brought forward, some of great v:ilue, and 1t is important to the tests and investigations, and also such scientific principles and such practical all industrial interests that their merits should be established at the earliest pos­ rules deduced therefrom as it shall consider most useful. The said commission sible moment. There is, indeed, hardly a branch of industry which will not be shall organize itself, and adopt such rules and make such assi~ent of duties benefited by a more thorough knowledge of materials, whether it be the armor, among its members as it shall deem most ~romotive of the object of its appoint­ the frames, and the plates of our new Navy, the roof of a public building, the ment. Vacancies occurring from time to tune in said commis ion shall be filled floor of an assembly-room, the long-span bridge, or the iron columns of the store­ by the President of the Uruted States. fronts that line our streets. SEC. 2. That the said commission shAll report its work, with its results and the Among the many reasons why this commission should be appointed and main­ deductions made therefrom, annually, to the Secretary of the Interior; and its ac­ tained by the General Government are that the expense of making such investi­ counts shall be settled in the Interior Department, through such channels as the gations IS too great to be borne by any but the mo. t wealthymamifacturers. If Secretary shall direct. made by such, or by private parties, they would remain unpublished, lest rivals SEc. 3. That the member of said commission shall he entitled to mileage and should reap results; the large body of constructors who represent the interests of other n ecessary expenses incurred in the prosecution. of their duties, but no sala­ the general public would be deprived of any benefit from them. On the other ries as members of the commission. hand, tests by manufacturers UJi>Oll their own productions would never command SEC. 4. That the said commission is hereby authorized to appoint a principal that confidence which would be mdispensable to their effective use. expert, who shall personally conduct the examinations and tests which the com­ Constructors, manufacturers. and users of all structural materials are deeply in­ mission shall direct, with such assistants and laborers as may be necessary, and also terested in the investigations to be made by a body of men, foremost in th6lr pro­ to purchase such material for test and investigation as may from time to time be fession, familiar with the processes of manufa{lture, with chemical analysis, and required. with the varied uses to which materials are applied, each one skilled in some spe­ ISEC. 5. That mantifacturers of iron, steel, and other structural material who may cial department of construction. Such a commission will command. alike their Tequest tests of their productions shaU file with the commission a full and detailed state­ confidence and that of the general public. ment of the mode and process of manufacture ofsaid production, also giving the name A testing-ma{lhine, said te be the best and most perfect ever built, is now the and character of each of the original irlf!Tedients and the proportion which the com­ property of the Government, and is located in the Watertown Arsenal, near Bos­ ponent parts entering into such production bear to each other. ton. It bas a capacity of 800,000 pounds, and is the only one in existence capable SEc. 6. That this act shall take eftect immediately. of testing and determining results on bars of the size which it is desirable to use in structures of s3ch magnitude that it is important to use steel in them. • Mr. BROWNE. I demand a second on the motion to suspend the Mr. Ashbel Welch, of Lambertville, New Jersey, pre ident of the American So­ rules. ciety of Civil Engineers, at a recent meeting of the American Institute of Mining Engineers, said : Mr. COX, of New York. This bill ought not to pass. "I have been struck by the emphasis with which the oonfe siou is made that so Mr. HOLMAN. I also demand a second. little is known of the strength of the lar

The Government bas the machine, it has abundant resources, and the manufact­ Mr. HEWITT, of New York. I so stated. urers and engineers of the oountT!, whh universal good-will, stand ready to ten- Mr. CONVERSE. Why, then, do you want a board or commission der their aid and technical knowledge." · .Alfred P. Boller, civil engineer, ofNew York, bridge and elevated-ra.ihvaycon- to work iU structor, said: lli. HEWITT, of New York. Because, as I ststed, the experi­ "What so intimately affects the people in every household is worthy of the pro­ ments now being made with it are sporadic and should be systematic, foundest sympathy of the legislativ~ powers~ ?-nd the members of ~ny 9ongreas Mr. CONVERSE. They are not t~poradic by any means. We made who grasp this subject as its magmtude anu unportance demand will hve to see not only a great work performed in the interests of science and manufactures but an appropriation two years ago of ten ortwelvethousand dollars for also a web of protection thrown around every hearthstone in the land by remov­ this purpose and have inserted another item for the same purpose in, ing to a. ~eat extent the ignorance and empiricism to which too many broken a recent appropriation bill; and the men who are working the rna.., bridges, fiillen buil~gs , and imperfect machines testify.:• . . . . chine and making experiments are the roo t skillful in the Unite~ The committee are also in rece1pt of numerous commUlllcations from c1vil, mm­ inu, and mechanical engineer , and others, :!'rom various sections of the coun~, States. They are detailed from the Engineer Corps of the Al'Dly, ex'Pressing views similar to those quoted, and mging early and favorable actiOn The Government pays no additional salary to these men. They ar& upon this question. all paid from the .Army appropriation and are detailed to perform, Yom committee, appreciating the magnitude and importance attach~d to this this duty. There is already a report, which ha.s come in within the measure, report back the bill with an amendment, and recommend that 1t do pass. last few days :from this board, and I hold in my hand a pamphlet ef 1\Ir. CAMPBELL. I interrqpt the reading of the report and ask it :five or six or seven hundred pa~es giving the details of experiments be printed in the RECORD. I yield to the gentleman from New York, made by this board within the last two years. [1\Ir. HEWITT. J Mr. HEWI'l'T, of New York. Now, will the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. BAYNE. I hope we will have order, as this is an important who I know does not want to misstate, permit me to say those are matter and should receive the closest attention. the experiments made by the commission which expired, and not · Mr. HEWITT, of New York. 1\Ir. Speaker, if the report accom­ by the engineer officers Y The gentleman is entirely in error. panying the bill in thi.s cas~ had been read, I think ~t would b.e neces­ Mr. CONVERSE. The gentleman from New York is entirely mis­ sary to say but v~ry little m support of the propnety of this pe~d­ taken. The appropriation was made on my motion two years ago; ing measure. It 1s known to most gentlemen here that. a testing and that appropriation bill requires the experiments to be made in machine has been constructed and now belongs to the Urn ted State industrial intere ts; not for purpo es of war but for purposes of Government. This machine is at the United States arsenal in \Vater­ indu try; and thee experiments have been going on under that town, l\lassacht~sett : It i~ perhaps, the most remark~ble ex~ibi­ appropriation. tion of mechamcal mgenmty that has been produced m our t1me; What the gentleman from New York alludes to is this : there and the inventor, Mr. Emery, has recently received from the.machin­ were a few experiments that were not completed by the commission. ist's charitable institution of Massachusetts the medal which they Those experiments which were begun and not completed by the confer once in a long period upon the invention which is the most commission which expired two or three years ago have been carried calculated to advance the interests of mankind. In other words, forward by this board. the maQhine in question has received the highest honor that it is pos­ Mr. HEWITT, of New York. The gentleman. does not want, l sible toconfer in this country at the hands of those who are compe­ know, to misstate. Will he read this report-- tent to judge of its merits. lli. CONVERSE. What the gentleman is referring to is the nrst Now, the machine in question is kept in operation for the purpose part of the report. of making sporadic tests, if I may use the language, of ench speci­ Mr. HEWITT, of New York. The gentleman ought to infor~ mens as may be sent to it by private individuals who de ire to get himself. information as to the strength of the materials tb.ey propose to use. Mr. CONVERSE. And certainly the gentleman from New York But what is wanted is a systematic regulation and organization of ought to inform himself. I say this report was made by the com-. these tests. The Society of Mechanical Engineers, the Society of mission which was raised on my motion. Civil Engineers, and the Society of Mining Engineers, the three Mr. HEWITT, of New York. I beg the gentleman's pardon. It great practical scientific bodies of this country, have unanimously was a commission raised before the gentleman was in Con~ess. recommended the appointment or establishment of a commission for Mr. CONVERSE. The gentleman is mistaken; that is all ther is the operation of this machine, with a view to get full details or about it. The commission expired before I came into this House, definite and systematic results. It has alrea-dy achieved very great three year ago, and on my motion 10,000 were appropriated, and results, results of enormous value to the country, and there. is not a these military officers were required to go forward and make their brid«e built in the United States nor a structure of any considerable experiments in iron and steal for domestic use. That board ha cons~quence erected in which the tests and the results obtained from been at work for two year , and they completed the experiments the use of this machine are not practically employed. which were begun, it is true, by the commission, and they have added In the interests of human life-the safety of life-in the great tests since the e experiment which are brought forward in this re­ architectural structures and operations of this country, tlie result port. And these men have material for another report as large as of this machine, from the examination of materi~l has been abso­ this one which I have exhibited. These experiments are being lutely essential in order that we may protect the public from unseen made, and as carefully made as they could be by a commission. danger. More than that, the Government Of the United States is it­ This bill proposes to raise a commission of seven or eight men to self a very great consumer of iron for structuml purposes-the largest rove all over the country at the public expense, employ chemists, on the continent. ·we are expending millions of dollars ttnnually &c., and be as expensive as the old commission was. I cannot tate for public purposes, and are to engage now in the building np of a now exact,ly what that old commission did expend, but the law was new Navy. Now, the saving of one-tenth of 1 per cent. in the repealed because it had becomesoexpensive, whiletheresnltswhich weight of metal in one of the vast structures of this country had flowed from the expenditure were so·few. would pay all of the expenses of this commission and the continuance lli. HEWihhof New York. They expended $50,000, and here is of these tests for a generation. Therefore, as a measure of economy one volume Qf t e re ults. this provision ought to be adopted; not only, I say, as a mea ure of Mr. CO~TVERSE. If that is the volume it is the :first volume pub- safety in the interest of human life but absolutely a question of lished, two years ago. practical ecomomy itself. Mr. HEWITT, of New York. No, sir. It is a curious fact, Mr. Speaker, that while in Europe-Great Brit­ Mr. BROWNE. I cannot yield further to this controversy. ain, ]!'ranee, Sweden, Germany, and Austria-experiments of this Mr. CONVERSE. I know I am trespassing on the time of the kind have been made in order to determine the strength of mate­ ~entleman from Indiana, [Mr. BROWl\"'E.] I will only repeat there rials used in building; this machine of ours, invented by a man 1s already a board required by law to make these experiments. I who had never seen one of their machines, ha corrected their data repeat it has been in operation for the last two years and the e men arW. led to large economy, and the eyes of the scientific world are have been engaged daily and weekly in the bu iness; and there is n"flbn the results. I for one trust that the Hon e may rise to the im­ no nece ity of duplicating that board. portance of this question and put this thing in a shape in which the Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Allow me to say there is no board great opportunity may be realized, and the va t results which will at all. This is being done by Colonel Laidley, who is an .Army officer sum np into millions and hundreds of millions of dollars in the course and not an engineer officer. of a century, results obtained from the operations of this machine, :Mr. CONVERSE. That is what I sa.id. He is detailed by the may be accomplished and utilized by the adoption of such a measure President for this work. as this. . Mr. HEWITT, ofNew York. Colonel Laidley is commandant of }.lr. CONVERSE. I desire to occupy the time for a minute or two the Watertown Arsenal, and in the regular performance of his duties on the opposite ide. conducts what experiments are conducted; and there is no board. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Indiana [Mr. BROWNE] is Mr. BROWNE. How much time have I remaining Y recognized to control the time in opposition. The SPEAKER. Ten minutes. Mr. BROWNE. I will yield to the gentleman from Ohio such time Mr. CANDLER. In opposition 7 • as he may desire. The SPEAKER. Yes. Mr. CONVERSE. I desire only a few minutes. I appreciate, Mr. 1\Ir. CANDLER. I should like to speak in favor of the bill. Speaker, all that has been said by the gentleman from New York The SPEAKER. There are seven minutes remaining for debate upon the suhject of these tests of iron and steel; bo.t the most im­ in favor of the bill, which are controlled by the gentleman from portant fact bearing upon this bill he ha not mentioned in his re­ Pennsylvania, [1\Ir. CAMPBELL.] marks, and that is that this machine fo11 which he SJ?eaks so elo­ Mr. CAMPBELL. I yield to the gentleman from M.aRsachusetts._ quently is in use at this time, and has been for the last two years. (Mr. CANDLER.) 18820 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6163

Mr. CANDLER. It seems to me it is a question of scientific engi­ acknowledged to be the best in the world, the information the peo­ neering and mechanical authority as to the value and real merit ple wa,nt. Let us prove all that we can and hold fast to those ihings of this bill. I am not a member of the committee, but I have been which we find through these scientific tests to be true. I believe it appealed to by some of the ablest and most scientific and public­ is a first-rate measure, and I hope it will pass. spirited engineers in this country to advocate this bill as not only Mr. BROWNE. There are always distinguished scientists who in the interest of science but in. the interest of the safety of the have a patriotic inclination to scientific research, but who always people and of the industrial development of the country, so far as seem to desire that their patriotism be supported by an appropriation metals are concerned, in constructing bridges, boilers, warehouses, out of the Treasury. and ships. Mr. CANDLER. Not for a salary. I wish to say I sustain the position taken by the gentleman from Mr. BROWNE. I shall not say that the Congroos of the United New York [Mr. HEWITT} that this great machine is almost lost to St~tes. may not al?point a commission of the kind contemplated by the public. To support the position which I take, and which he has this b1ll. But eVIdently the gentleman who advocates it so warmly taken, I shall read from a letter from a distinguished engineer in has never read it. Massachusetts, the engineer who was appointed by the State and :Mr. CANDLER. The gentleman has read it very carefully. successfully completed the Hoosac tunnel, that cost the State of Mas- Mr. BROWNE. Then I desire to say that he has read a bill of the achusetts about 17,000,000. I think his opinion, the earnest re­ most imperfect character. In the first place, it provides for the ap­ quest which he makes, will have a stronger influence on this House pointment of a commission for the purpose of making certain tests as an authority than :mything I can offer. · He writes to me: in metals, with a view to ascertaining their strength, &c. 'It pro­ The bill- vides that these scientists shall from time to time make reports. Mr. CARLISLE. Allow me to suggest to the gentleman from In­ This bill which is before the House- diana [:Mr. BROWNE] that the tests are not to be confined to metala; was proposed by the .American Society of Civil Engineers, in connection with the .American SocietJ of Mechanical Engineers and the .American Institute of they can test woods, any structural materials whatever. Mining Engineers, and provides for the aJ?pointment of a commission of scientific M.r. BAYNE. The bill is all the better for that. experts to test metals and materials used m construction. Mr. BROWNE. First, they are required to make a report. I ask .And when the members of this House realize that to-day ships, the gentleman to ~II us to whom the report is to be made, how often bridges, and warehouses are continually constructed of metals, and it is to be ma-de f How is.J;he report to be secured f In what man- this engineer states that "the new processes brought into use for ner is the report to be pai! for f . making steel and refined iron within twenty-five years render use­ Mr. CANDLER. Will the gentleman allow me to suggest that if less all former tests;" when gentlemen realize that, and that every he will read the second section of the bill he will .find that the com­ time they and the people who look to them for wise legislation pass mis ion is to report annually to the Secretary of the Interior. over the water or the land in steamships o1· on a railroad, their safety 1\Ir. BRO\VI.JE. That had escaped my observation. and their lives depend on a proper construction of the iron vessels Mr. CAMPBELL. Who is it now who has not read the billY and the iron bridges which they are to use, they should feel it is [Laughter.] time, when the Angineers of this country believe that the past ex­ Mr. CANDLER. .Allow me to suggest that I tliink the gentleman perience under old processes with the new processes is valueless, that himself has not read the bill~ the intelligent Congress of the United States should listen to their Mr. BRO\VNE. I have read. the bill carefully. I will put t.Ais request, and appoint a commission, which is not a salaried commis­ question to the gentleman: .At what time d9es the commission be­ sion, but. a commission of experts, under the control of the Presi­ gin; how long does it continue, and when will it end f dent of the United States, to pursue systematic and thorough inves­ Mr. CANDLER. It begins whenever any one goes there for testa, tigation and prove what the metals are worth for construction or whenever they can make them from time to time. to-day. Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. And it continues during the It will be noticed that the bill covers two points; the first is the pleasure of the President. test of metals, and the second is the use of a machine which the Mr. BROWNE. I know the President has power to :fill vacanciee. Government owns aud which is the best machine in the world. Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. And that continues the com- Whatever may have been said here to-day by others as to its use, I mission. say it is at this moment practically idle at the arsenal at Watertown. Mr. BROWNE. The bill continues it without limitation. I read again from the letter of EdwardS. Philbrick, one of the dis­ Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. .And was meant to do so. tinguished engineers in New England to whom I have referred: Mr. BROW~E. It is assumed by the gentleman that tpis is to cost nothing. The machine belonO'in~ to the Government now at Watertown .Arsenal is lying :Ur. CANDLER. Oh, no. nearly idle, but might"'fie made of great use to the community by a properly organ­ ized system of tests. Private parties can use it now, but the information they ob­ Mr. BROWNE. There are no salaries to be' paid to this commi8- tain i!> only a drop ill the bucket and is their own property, not available for pub­ sion, but it is provided that they shall be paid their traveling and lic uses. Engineers want to know what the new metals are to be depended on in other necessary expenses; and there is no limitation as to the sum various shapes and sizes. The information can only beobtained by a well-studied that shall be paid. and systematized series of tests on full-sized specimens, by means of which we shall be enabled to use the metals economically, safely, and efficiently. We are Mr. CAMPBELL. The members are not to receive any compen­ now groping in the dark while the best apparatus in the world is lying compar&­ sation. tively idle for want of such organized action. Pray give this bill your favorable Mr. BROWNE. I know; but they are to receive their necessary attention. expenses ; and beyond that they are authorized to employ an expert I submit the statement of this engineer against the statement of and laborers and assistants, and the expert and the laborers and the the gentleman on the other side. You have also in this report of the assistants are to be paid. They are authorized to purchase material cC:lmmittee the statement of probably the best expert on metals in of every description without limitation as to amount or cost. They the worlu, so recognized by all, and he a,sks that this bill may be are authorized to do all this. They are authorized to make their re­ passed and this commission appointed-E. D. Leavitt, jr., civil en­ ports and authorized, in addition, to publish them, at the expense of gineer, of Cambridgeport, Massachusetts. He says: the Government I suppose, although there is no sum specified in the Our knowledge regarding the strength and behavior of materials under strain is bill from beginning to end that is to be paid either for expenses or yet very limited. The best and most experienced constructors admit and lament experts or laborers or materia~s or for the publication of reports. this. In these days ofhigh speed byrailwaysand steamships, oflong-span bridges Mr. HUTCHINS. Will the gentleman allow me a question 'I' and deep mines, engineers must know what materials will safely endure. Life Mr. BROWNE. Certainly. depends upon it. :Mr. HUTCHINS. Could not these men run the country in debt to It seems to me that it ]s but a meager provision to car:ry out a the extent of millions of dollars under this billY proper system of tests when you reco~nize the advance that has been Mr. BRO\VNE. There is no limitation whatever as to the extent made in the use of metals and the Importance of a knowledge of of the expenses, except the discretion of the commission itself. them. We ought not to hesitate to appoint at the call of the most Now, I assume, :Mr. Speaker, notwithstanding what has been so scientific men of this country a commission under the control of the well said by the distinguished gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. President, which commission asks no salary and only asks that CANDLER] that t.here is nothing in the objects of the bill or the pur­ their expenses be paid. It is not an extravagant or unreasonable pose for which this commission is to be created that may not be as proposition. Can we justify our action if we do not listen to the well done by private enterprise, if not better. I see no reason for appeal that comes to us from them Y It is a warning as well as an the appointment of a commission the expenses of which are to be appeal that demands consideration. borne by the Government. To be sure.l theremaynotbemuchmoney Allow me to say that there are scientific men in this country who, involved in this; but the tendency ot our legislation is to commit when. they advocate this measure, do so with a full consciousness that almost every conceivable subject to a committee or a commission they have a reputation at stake. There is no humbug and no selfish and to pay their expenses out of the public Treasury. It is only purpose about it. There are scientific men who seek for knowledge recently that it has been found necessary for the .American C{)n­ with a patriotic and public-spirited purpose. · gress to engage in private enteiJ>rise at the public expense. I am I believe that there can be passed no bill of this kind that can be oppo&ed to a commission of tills description. .As the gentleman of more service to the people, more important for their safety, or of from Massachusetts [Mr. MORSE] who sits near me remarks, we have more advantage to the development of our mining interest, our a liquor commission, a woman' rights commission, and I believe a manufacturing, our building, and our refining processes, than this tariff commission. arne bm. It is an advanced step in the right direction. Mr. SPRINGER. You voted for the tariff commission, did you not f · Let us send out through experiments upon tln1' machine, which is Mr. BROWNE. We ha..-e had a silver commission; and I snj>poae • 6164 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD2HOUSE. Juty f7, next we shall appoint a commission of lunacy. [Laughter.] How lished in the city ofNewYork, the land and premises formerly occupied as the ;ii: of the .post-office in the city ofNew York, lying upon Nassau street, between Cedar much time have I remaining¥ and Liberty streets, and known as the old post-office site; the time and place of The SPEAKER. Two minutes. said sale in said city to be fixed by the Secretary of the Treasury at a date not Mr. BROWNE. I yieldoneminutetothegentlemanfromPennsyl­ later than ninety days after the passage of this act, and at a price not less than va:aia [Mr. BAYNE] who is in favor of this proposition. $500,000, with power to reject any and all bids, and to readvertise and offer the said Mr. BAYNE. Mr. Speaker, I think that the importance of this property in like manner as often as may be necessary to secure the value thereof. and if he deems it best for the public -interest he may subdivide said land inu; bill can scarcely be overrated. Private enterprise cannot make parcels and sell in such parcels. these tests. Mr. HARRIS, of .Massachusetts. Private parties have not the Mr. GARRISON. I demand a second of the motion to suspend the machinery. rule. Mr. BAYNE. No, sir; they have not the machinery. The gen­ The SPEAKER. If there is no objection, the second will be con- tlemen who make this proposition are men of the very highest char­ sidered as ordered. acter-as high as that of any gentleman in the country. The Society :Mr. HOLMAN. I object. Let us have a vote on it. of American Engineers, that met here in the city of Washington a The Speaker appointed :Mr. GARRISO~ and :Mr. BROWNE a tellers. short time ago, adopted resolutions unanimously asking Congress to The Hou e divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 83, noes 30. pass a bill like this. These gentlemen are as a rule men without much Mr. HOLMAN. No quorum has voted. means. They have ability, science, culture, candor, and every other The SPEAKER. The tellers will resume their places. requisite to make fair, honorable, and just tests. It is for Congress The House further divided; and the tellers reported-ayes 113, to say whether this talent which has been cultivated in the colleges noes 35. and schools of the country shall be utilized for great public objects. So the motion to suspend the rules was seconded. If the action of this commission should not be satisfactory, it can Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. I rise for the purpo e of discu - be done away with at the will of the President. These are men of ing this bill. such high character that we know they will not abuse the trust con­ The SPEAKER. The gentleman does not control the time. fided to them; and when men of the best intellect, of the highest Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. But fifteen minutes are allowed scientific culture come here and make an appeal of this sort., Ire­ on each side for debate. spectfully submit that Congress ought to respect the appeal where :Mr. GARRISON. I will yield to the gentleman from Illinois. it does not involve the expenditure o~ large sum of money, and The SPEAKER. For how long? where it subserves a great public purpose. .Mr. GARRISON. Such time as he wa.nts. Mr. BROWNE. I yield my remaining min_ute to the gentleman 1\fr. TPWNSHEND, of. Illinois. I am governed, Mr. Speaker, by from Ohio, [Mr. CONVERSE. J . . one mo~Ive only, and that IS to secure ~he prop~r value t~r this p~operty Mr. CONVERSE. 1\fr. Speaker, I desire merely to read the clause belongmg to the Government. I desrre that It shall bnn~ a fair price of the statute making appropriation for this very purpose last year: and that is all I desire. I wish to put the Government m a position For caring for, preserving, usirig, and operating the United States testing ma­ ~h~re no combination can force the sa.le of this property except for chines at Watertown Arsenal, $10,000: Provided, That the tests of iron and steel Its JUSt and proper value. I do not think any honest representative and other material for industrial purposes shall be con tinned during the next ftscal of the people should break down any safeguard and risk in the sale year, and report thereof shall be made to Congress. of .this property its sacrifice for a much lower price than it ought to Now, $10,000 is enough to buy all the material that needs to be brmg. tested in any one year. Men who are paid officers of the Government, The Government is not so poor that its property must b forced men of skill and inte~rity, are making these tests with more care than under the hammer at such figure as it will bring. We have the fact they could be made if you appointed some politicians on this board. staring us in the face in respect to the sale of this property that

It is better to leave the matter just where it is. This course is in the holding it for four years its price has run up from 150,000 to $500 1000. interest of science; it is to the advantage of the iron interests of the It was then proposed to sell it for 150,000, and holdinO' it for four country. -y:ears ~h~ Government has ~ain~d.$350,000. The Co~ftee on Pub­ Mr. BAYNE. The iron interests do not think so. lic Buildings and Grounds 1s willing now to fix the nnmmum price Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. Politicians could never get at 600,000, or an additional gain ot 250,000. on this board, for there is no salary. It was said the other day, Mr. Speaker, when the bill was at­ Mr. CONVERSE. They will be very likely to get salaries before tempted to be taken from the Speaker's table and passed with a min­ they are done. imum of 500,000, that that was all it would bring in the market Mr. BROWNE. They will get whisky and cigars. and yet the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds now com~ Mr. SPRINGER. I ask unanimous consent that the bill may be in with a proposition to increa-se the price to 600,000. modified by adding the fullowing proviso : It was stated on the floor by Representatives of the city of New Provided, That no purchases shall be made or liability incurred beyond the York that this property is regarded as worth$1,250,000. So far as we amount expressly appropriated for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of have any evidence of its value, it is shown that it is worth a million of this act. dollars. If the opinion of those in New York who are competent The SPEAKER. Is there unanimous consent that the bill be judges of New York real estate is to be relied on, this property is modified in the manner indicated by the gentleman from lliinois f worth from 1,000,000 to $1,250,000. I ask, in the name of justice and Mr. CONVERSE. I object. common sense, why we should fix the minimum at $600,000 t All I The question being taken on the motion of Mr. CAMPBELL to sus­ ask is that the House will fix the minimum at $1,000,000, and I will pend the rules and pass the bill, there were-ayes 67, noes 41. then withdraw all opposition to the bill. Mr. BAYNE. No quorum. I have no other feeling in the ma.tter than to get the best price we Tellers were ordered; and Mr. BAYNE and Mr. BROWNE were ap­ can. My constituents have an interest in that property as well as pointed. the constituents of the gentleman from New York, and I am hereto Mr. BROWNE. Would it be in order at this time to move that protect their interests as well as the interest of the people at large. the House adjourn t Feeling as I do, having the opinion of men capable of judging, men The SPEAKER. The House is dividing. of the highest character and of the best judgment, I do not think Mr. BROWNE. But there is no quorum. we ought to fix the minimum lower than 1 000,000. The SPEAKER. That has not been ascertained in the proper Then I insist that that guard should be placed around the sale of way. ~he prope~~· But gentlemen say, "Why wo~dy~u insist upon :tix­ The question was taken i and the tellers reported-ayes 92, noes 55. mg the mmunum value at 8uch a large sum If this is to be sold at So (two-thirds not havmg voted in favor thereof) the rules were public auction T" They say a minimum sum is fixed in the bill and not suspended, and the bill was not passed. th~re ~ll be no chance for

1882. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 6165

then he should be compelled to accept the tenders made to him for Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. From such rilenasJohn E. Devlin, certain portions of the property. All I desire to say now, however, who have estimated a much less sum than that. , in the brief time given to debate is simply this : that if gentlemen ~lr. ATHERTON. By whom were these witnesses produced f will fix the value of this property at a fair price I for one will not Mr. SINGLETON, oflllinois. Theywerf\produced at the request oppose the passage of the bill. of the committee. Mr. SINGLETON, of illinois. Will the gentleman allow me to :Mr. MILLS. I resume the floor. It seems to me if gentlemen interrupt him for a moment 'I would act in a business way about this they would authorize by a :?t-lr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. I have but a few moments. joint resolution or act of Congre s a board of appraisers to go and Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. I am sure my colleague does not appraise that property at its present cash value, and then we can in­ mean to misstate the facts. The bill, of course, authorizes the Sec­ telligently understand how to put the property on the market for retary of the Treasury to sell at a higher price. Of course he is not sale. Nobody now knows what is its value. Some time ago they limited as to the manner of selling; he may exercise his discretion. were proposing to authorize it to·be sold at a minimum of $200,000. :Mr. TOWNSHEND, of illinois. I know it leaves it discretionary Then it was put at 300,000; then at $500,000; and now it has got up with him; but I do not wish to leave it discretionary with him. I to ·600,000. If we were providing_for the sale of the property a want to put it in such a position that the Government will derive year or two ago at a minimum of $300,000, if it is now worth more the greatest value from it; and, further, I am informed that we are than $600,000, we were legislatin~ very foolishly, it seems to me. now paying $110,000 rent per annum. This is a business transaction and 1t should be treated in a business Mr. VAN VOORHIS. One hundred and thirty thousand dollars. way. The Government should ascertain from some of its duly ap­ Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. Or 130,000, as my friend from pointed officers-not men who want to buy the property-what the New York [Mr. VAN VooRms] suggest , as rental for property u ed cash value of that lot and house is to-day, and then Congress should by the Government there outside of what it owns itself. fix a minimum corresponding to that report. Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. Well, wehad the figures before the l'.Ir. SPRINGER. Will the gentleman from Texas [Mr. :MILLS] committee, and I can tell the gentleman he is mistaken. allow me to ask him a question Y .Mr. TOWNSHEND, of lllinois. My friend [Mr. VAN VoORHIS] The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Texas has ex­ says the amount of rental paid there now for Government purposes pired. is 130,000 per annum. 1rlr. TOWNSHEND, of illinois. I reserve the remainder of my time Mr. SINGLETON, ofillinois. Thatisnotborneoutbytheexami­ t!ll I hear the oppoaite si{(e. nation of the committee. Mr. SHALLENBERGER. I yield three minutes to the gentleman Mr. TOWNSHEND, of illinois. But whether that statement be from Massachusetts, [Mr. ROBINSON.] · entirely accurate or not, it must be apparent to everybody that the Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. This question has been before only way to dispose of this property is in that manner that will pro­ the House on other occasions and I have listened io hear what was duce the best results for the people of this country ; and if we do the ground of objection tow hat is here proposed. If it is granted that sell this property, there will be a clamor after a while from that city the United States has real property in New York that is not needed for the purchase of ground on which to erect some other public build­ at all, and not likely to be needed, it is certainly good economy to ing, and then we will be compelled to pay a vastly increased sum sell it if we can sell it for what it is worth. Now, how shall we find for it. I reserve the remainder of my time. that out f The ordinary way is to sell at public auction. The SPEAKER. The gentleman ha nine minutes remaining. I understand this bill provides for the discretion of the Secretary l'.Ir. TOWNSHEND, of illinois. I yield two minutes to the gen­ of the Treasury. I presume he is to be relied upon. Everybody tleman from New York, [Mr. V A.L~ VooRms.l seems to rely on his honor and good faith and judgment, and right­ Mr. VAN VOORHIS. It seems to me that there is no ·necessity for fully, too. The sale must be advertised. That is specifically pro­ e1ling this property at this time. There is no business demand for vided in the bill. All the safeguards are there. And, as I under­ the sale. The Government is not in such need of money that it stand, the public auction is to be had in New York. Now, I think should sacrifice this property. The Government is paying, as I am it is very safe to a.ssume there are people enou~h in New York City told, now rent for buildings which are other than those belonging to to make competition for the property so that 1t will be old for its the Government of over $130,000 a year. fair value. There is talk as if a ring will be got up, b,Y which all Mr. SPRINGER. \Vho says that 'I the moneyed men of New York City who might otherwise buy will 1\Ir. VAN VOORHIS. I am informed by gentlemen who have ex­ be in some way controlled. . amined the records in the Treasury Department. I do not vouch for I have been informed-if it is not the fact I wHl withdlraw the the correctness of the statement, but I have no doubt of its correct­ statement-that some man of the name of Conant now rents that ne s. It is statecl in the committee's report that three years ago the property at ·12,500 a year and sublets it so that he makos 15,000 or rents paid by the United States Government in New York were 20,000 a year. If that be the fact he would have a very large in­ $140,000 a year. terest in the matter, so as to induce him to persuade members of Con­ Mr. HUTCHINS. There is nothing like that amount paid. gress, if he could, to interpo e objections. · Mr. SPRINGER. The committee have had all the facts before Mr. TOWNSHEND, of lllinois. If ~Ir. Conant gets it at a cheaper them, and I understand that they do not find any such figures. rent than he ought to get it, why does not the Secretary of the Treas­ Mr. McCOOK. The only mistake the gentleman makes is $100,000 ury take it out of his bauds and rent it to some one who will pay a. a year, that is all. higher rent! Mr. VAN VOORHIS. Why should we be paying these large rents 1.1r. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. It is understood that is all the in New York when we have a piece of property that we can utilize Government can rent it for. without paying any rent at all f If we sell it it will be but a year l'.ir. VAN VOORHIS. And why does not the Government use it or two before we will have to buy something there to build on, and instead of paying large rents elsewhere f when yon go into the market to buy this property the Government l'.Ir. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. I understand it is not valu­ will have to pay 2,000,000 to get it. able for the purposes of the Government. There is a minimum· put At the beginning of this bu!!iness the Government received an offer in here, and gentlemen say the committee are shifting ground as to from somebody of $200,000 for this property. It was afterward in­ that. I am not on the committee, but I say there is no shifting of creased until it got up to $300,000; then it went up to $400,000; then ground. Somebody said unless you raise it to a certain minimum to $500,000, and now we are told we can get '600,000 for it. That is price we will object; and suppo e the minimum was raised to a not one-half of its value. There is nobody, so far as I know, Mr. million there would be objections still. Speaker, that desires to have the Government sell this property In other words it may be the policy of some parties to prevent any except those who want to buy it. [Here the hammer fell.] sale whatever that somebody may get the profit that Mr. Conant is Mr. TOWNSHEND, of illinois. I now yield two minutes to the evidently getting. gentleman from Texas, [Mr. l'.fiLLS.l Mr. TOWNSHEND, of lllinois. The Government has made $300,- Mr. :MILLS. I only rise to ask if the Government has had any 000 by holding on to the property for four years. appraisal of this property from any gentleman who has investi­ Mr. ROBINSON, of Massachusetts. If this property is worth so gated it Y much as it is said, it is not to be supposed that it will not be sold for l.ir. SINGLETON, of illinois. 1rlr. Speaker, I reply to my friend something near its worth merely because somebody suggests that from Texas by saying that the Committee on Public Buildings and after it is advertised in all the papers nobody will come to buy it, G1·ounds have investigated the question by calling before them the but all will stand off aud allow a ring to control the sale. be t men competent to judge of the matter in the city of New York :Mr. SHALEENBERGER. I yield now five minutes to the gen­ and tho members from the city of New York, and we have bad no tleman from New York [Mr. HEWITT.] one before us except the present lessee of the property who ob­ :Mr. McCOOK. I ask the House to listen attentively to my col­ jected to the sale. Nobody has estimated it at an amount exceeding league, [Mr. HEWITT,] who was absent when this bill was formerly that fixed as the limit in the bill. . under discussion. Mr. MILLS. Six hundred thousand dollars'/ ~Ir. HEWITT, of New York. First, as to the grievance which tho Mr. SINGLETON of lllinois. Yes, sir. city of New York is under. Here is property upon which jurisdiction Mr. RUSSELL. How much is that a footf has been relinquished and which is not subject to taxation. If it is Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. I cannot say precisely at this mo­ required for Government use, then there is no grievance; unt if it ment. is not required for Government use and is rented out for revenue, Mr. ATHERTON. ],rom whom does the estimate com~! then the city of New York is deprived of its lawful taxes upon this 6166 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 17,

property, and all the Government makes in the way of rent, while then it ought to keep it. But the property which it rents is used the value is ris~~~ is money improperly taken from the treasury of mainly for storage purpose , and this property is too valuable for the city of New :rork. That is the first thing. use in that way. · Secondly, as to the misapprehension which prevails on the part of I should be unwilling that the House should be misinformed a to gentlemen. They seem to think that property put up at auction in the real facts in this case. I say to the House that it is not in the the city of New York mi~ht not :find bidders, for so much money as power of man to prevent this property from bringing all it is really a million of dollars would be difficult to raise. To a New Yorker worth at public auction. If there be any ring about the matter, any that is simply absurd and ridiculous. A hundred millions of dollars hugger-muggery about it, the Secretary of the Treasury is author­ could be raised on one hour's notice for a real-estate transaction in ized to set aside the sale, and he is a man whom we all in the State New York on which the buyer could make 2t per cent. of :Kew York are willing to trust, whether we are Democrats or If this property is put up at auction the dealers in real estate and Republicans. the great capitalists in New York will be there to buy, and it will Mr. SHALLENBERGER. I would inquire of the Chair how much be absolutely impossible to prevent the property from bringin~ a time I have left. fair price. When gentlemen talk about the Government havmg The SPEAKER. The gentleman has six minutes of his time re­ made money by raising this limit of value th\t i all ridiculous non­ maining. sense. A limit of $100,000 is just as good as a limit of $600,000; and l\1r. SHALLENBERG,ER. I will yield three minute of my time when the limit was put at 200,000 the property would have brought to the gentleman from New York1 [Mr. HUTCI.In" ·1 $1,000,000 just as quickly a it will to-day, if it is worth that amount Mr. HUTCHINS. \Vhen the bill was before the House ome weeks of money. The limitation is merely the upset price aud does not ago I took no part in the debate. Since that time I have informed gauge the value of the property at all.. No one knows what it will my elf concerning the facts of the case, and I am ready to vote for bring; but one thing is certain, it will bring more if sold as a whole the bill as now amended by the committee. I have had knowledge than if divided up and sold in parts. of this property for forty years. During several years I had an office Mr. VAN VOORHIS. Who is urging the sale of this property' opposite to it. It was formerly a church, but wa purchased by the l\fr. HEWITT, ofNewYork. I am urgingita the Representative Government about the year 1861 and changed into a post-office. of my city; and every Repre entative from the city of NewYork is Since the time it cea ed to be needed for this purpose, it has been urging it. And we are met here by one single man, Mr. Conant, who rented by the Government. has been able to block the wheels of Congre s u.g · st the unanimous I can conceive of no purpo. e for which it can be now profitably judgment of the del gation from New York C1ty. used by the Government. It is not needed for a itefor a post-office, Mr. TOWNSHE1\"'D, of Illinois. Is the gentleman aware that two a building in which courts may be held, or for Government offices of weeks a15o the gentleman from New York [Mr. Cox] and the gen­ any description. tleman from New York LMr. ROBINSON] oppo ·ed the passage of this 'fhe gentleman from Illinois [l\fr. Tow~sHE~'D] stated that the billY bill provided that the property should be sold for cash. In this he Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Mr. ROBL,SO~ i not a Representa­ is mistaken. There is no limitation in that respect. The Secre­ tive from the city of New York; he is from the city of Brooklyn. As tary of the Treasury may sell it npon credit-upon such credit as he to Mr. C

deuce before the committee showed conclusively that it did not There is no question in the mind of any official of the Treasury De­ exceed $33,000. [Here the hammer fell.] partment, I think, as to the propriety of selling this piece of prop­ 1\Ir. SPRINGER. Mr. Speaker, I am in favor of the passage of erty. Not one Representative from the city of New York, not one this bill. It is well known and admitted that the Government does prominent business man from that city or elsewhere has hesitated not need this property. The true test, then, whether the Govern­ to indorse the sale at public auction as provided for iR this bill. ment should sell it or not, is whether the Government, if it did not Although as a committee when considering this bill we gave public own it, should buy it. Is there a gentleman on this floor who. would and private notice of our desire to hear both sides, not a single in­ propose that the Government should buy this property now, if it did dividual appeared in opposition to this proposition except one man, not own it ¥ and he was the lessee, making $12,000,$15,000, or possibly $20,000 a. 1\Ir. SINGLETON, of Illinois. And did not need it. year out of the lease of this property by subletting. Mr. SPRINGER. Yes, sir. Now if you apply this test what gen­ I say this property should be sold some time, and there never was tleman upon this :floor would vote to buy the property t The Gov­ a time, nor will there soon occur a time in all: probability, when it ernment has no use for it; and if, supposing it did not. own the prop­ could be sold to better advantage than now. There cannot be a bill erty it would not buy jt, we ought now to sell it and let it pass into more carefully framed or better calculated, in my judgment, and in the hands of those who can use it for business purposes. the judgment of gentlemen better informed on this subject than my­ As to the value of this property, I am willing to take the opinion self, to secure t.he last dollar it is worth. of the gentleman from New York [.Mr. HEWITT] as against any com­ The SPEAKER.. The gentleman's time has expired. The question mission or board that we might organize for the purpose of apprais­ recurs on the motion to suspend the rules and pass the bill and amend­ ing it. If gentlemen representing the city of New York on this :floor ment reported from the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. are not competent to judge of the -value of this property I do not The House divided; and there were-ayes 101, noes 26. know where we can go to find competent men. I am willing to take Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. No quorum has voted. Ifgentle­ their statement6; and as th~y repr~sent the views of their people, men will give us the yeas and nays I will withdraw the point of we ougb t not to go against their wishes in a matter of this kind. order, otherwise I shall insist on it. [Here the hammer fell.] The SPEAKER. The gentleman must take his own course. Mr. SHALLENBERGER rose. Mr. HOLMAN. I make the point of order there is no quorum. Mr. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. As I have re erved five minutes The SPEAKER appointed Mr. SHALLENBERGER and lli. HOLMAN of my time, I should be glad to use that time now; and the gentle­ as tellers. man from Pennsylvania [Mr. SHALLE ~BERGER] when he takes the The House again divided; and the tapers reported there were-ayes floor may reply to me. 126, noes 20. Jltfr. SHALLENBERGER. Very well. 1\fr. VAN VOORHIS. I demand the yea~ and nays. Mr. TOWNSHEND, of IDino1s. Jltfr. Speaker, I do not desire that The yeas and nays were not ordered. anything shall be done unfairly in regard to this matter. I am So (two-thirds having voted in favor thereof) the ru1es were sus­ governed by no other motivein the question than regard to the pub­ pended, and the bill as amended was passed. lic interest. I am perfectly willing to take the opinion of the gentlemen from E:NROLLED BILLS SIG~D. New York who advocate the sale of this property, and concede to Mr.WARNER, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reported that them pure and honest motives, and I only ask the same motives shall they had examined and found truly·enrolled bills of the following be attributed to myself. I have no objection to the sale of this titles; when the Speaker signed the same: property and all I insist upon is that it shall not be offered for less A bill (S. No. 604) wanting a pension to Margaret Beymer; than its fair cash value. A valuation has been placed on the prop­ A bill (S. No. 984) rncreasing the pension of Emma H . Collins; erty by good and honestmen of from $l,OOO,OOOto$1,250,000. And I A bill (S. No. 1040) granting a pension to Theodore Rauthe; stood on that property in the city of New York four years ago in A bill (S. No. 1068) for the relief of citizens of Tennessee; company with an ex-Secretary of the Treasury, a man whose word A bill (S. No. 1201) granting a pension to Jacob Nix; is synonymous with honesty and truth throughout the land, and he A bill (S. No.1S86) donating four condemned cast-iron cannon for told me then the property was worth at least $1,000,000. Now, Jltfr. the soldiers' monument at the village of East Bloomfield, New York; Speaker, Mr. HEWITT, of New York, says this property has not A bill (S. No. 1942) granting condemned cannon to Abe Lincoln ·grown in value during that four years- - Post No. 29 of the Grand Army of the Republic, at Council Blu:ffB, Mr. HEWITT, of New York. I beg the gentleman's pardon; it Iowa, for monumental purposes; ha grown in value. A bill (S. No. 2050) donating four condemned cannon and four cast­ ir. TOWNSHEND, of Illinois. It must necessarily grow in value iron cannon-balls for the soldiers' monument at Ironton, Ohio; and every day. It is in the heart of the business part of New York A bill (S. No. 2057) granting condemned cannon, &c., to the city City. It is within two blocks of Wall street. It is within two of Marshalltown, Iowa. blocks of the Stock Exchanue. The property is growing in value LEAVE OF .ABSENCE. every day. Everybody familiar with the locality knows that there is not a spot of ground where property is growing more rapidly in By unanimous consent, leave of absence was granted in the fol­ value than this old post-office site. lowing cases : A hue and cry is raised about some poor man living there. I am To Mr. BRAGG, indefinitely, on account of important business. told he is there by the leave of the Secretary of the Treasury, and To Mr. HEWITT, of New York, indefinitely, in consequence of sick­ the Secretary can eject him whenever he pleases. ness. If·l\fr. Conant does not pay enough rent, then why does not the To Mr. TALBOTT, for ten days. Government oust him f To Mr. PHELPS, indefinitely, on account of sickness in his family. Mr. SINGLETON, of Illinois. Does my colleague believe when LEAVE TO PRL."'T. the General Government has acquired property for a specific pur­ pose and ha~ ceased to use it forthatpurposethatit should continue 1\fr. LEEDOM, by unanimous consent, was granted leave to print to hold it forever 'f some remarks on the bill to admit Dakota as a State into the Union. Mr. TOWNSHEND, of·lllinois . . I have no time to answer my [See Appendix.] friend. I wish to come to the gentleman from New York, [Mr. RA.CH.AEL J . FLOYD. McCooK.] He says that the city of New York loses $60,000 a year Mr. RAY, by unanimous consent, introduced a bill(H. R . No. 6798) in taxes on this property because it is Government property. \Vhat for the relief of Rachael J. Floyd; which was read a first and second does that teach us Y The gentleman no doubt is stimulated by his time, referred to the Committee on Claims, and ordered to be printed. desire to advance the interest of the city of New York, but let me And then, on motion of Mr. RANDALL, (at four o'clock and fifty­ call attention to the fact that when the gentleman says the city of eight minutes p.m.,) the House adjourned. New York lo..-.es 60,000 of tax on this property every year that is an evidence thi:§ property is worth $3,000,000, for the-rate in New York is2 per cent., and 2per cent. on$3,000,000wouldonlyprodnce $60,000 PETITIONS. a year the amount of tax he says is lost by the city of New York The following petitions were laid on the Clerk's desk, UD.der the by this being Government property. rule, and referred as follows : Mr. HEWITT, of New York. Then theywould put a building on By Mr. BELMONT: The petition of Mary 1\I. Spencer, of Geneva, it costing $3,000,000. New York, and others, for the passage of the French spoliation­ The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Pennsylvania has one min­ claims bill-to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. ute left. By Mr. DEZENDORF: The petition of E. H. Murrell, of Lynch­ Mr. SHALLENBERGER. Mr. Speaker, this is a piece of Govern­ burgh, Virginia,, for relief- to the Committee on 'Var Claims. ment property in the city of New York which has not been used by By Mr. DINGLEY: The petition of General Thomas W. Hyde and the Government for t.he last five years. The" present Secretary of 125 others, citizens of Maine, for the settlement of the French spolia­ the Treasury says it will not be needed and should be sold. If he tion claims- to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. needs more accommodations for public offices in the near future he By Mr. S. S. FARWELL: The petition of 141 citizens of the sec­ states this is not the property he would advise the Government to ond Congressional district of Iowa, for the confirmation of the call occupy with a new building. Secretary Sherman, the preceding for a peace congress to be held in Washington, Dist-rict of Columbia, Se~retary of the Treasury, gave us a like recommendation to sell November 22, 1882-to the same committee. this property. By Mr. KASSON: The petition of 36 citizens of the seventh and 6168 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JULY f8, ninth Congressional districts of Iowa, for a confirmation of the call four condemned cast-iron cannon and four cannon-balls, for decorat­ for a peace congress in Washington, November22, 1f38'l,.,-tothe same ing the proposed soldiers' monument at Haverstraw, New York; committee. A bill (B. R. No. 6695) granting condemned cast-iron cannon and By Mr. McLANE: The petition of Colonel and Brevet Brigadier­ cannon-balls for monumental purposes; General Israel Vo~des, United States Army, retired, forrelief-tothe A bill (H. R. No. 5978) to authorize the Secretary of War to fur­ Committee on Military .Affairs. nish condemned cast-iron cannon and cannon-balls for the soldiers' B:v Mr PETTIBONE: The petition of A. H. Pettibone, for the es­ cemetery at Knoxville, Tennessee; tabiishment of a post-route from White Pine to Parrottsville, in the A bill (B. R. No. 6692) to authorize the Secretary of War to fur­ State of Tennessee-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post­ nish condemned cast-iron cannon and cannon-balls for monumental Roads. purposes; By Mr. SPOOl\'"ER: The petition of the Bailey Wringing Machine A bill (H. R. No. 6718) to donate two condemned cast-iron cannon Company and others, protesting against the passage of bill (H. R. and twelve cannon-balls to the A. E. Burnside Post No. 109 of the No. 5752) providing for extension of patent to the heirs of John Grand Army of the Republic of South Chicago, Illinois; and Young-to the Committee on Patents. A bill (S. No. 2154) to authorize the Secretary of War to furnish By :Mr. WIDTTHORNE: Thepetition ofW. T. Sutton and others, cannon and cannon-balls for monumental purposes. for the establishment of a post-route from Graham to Only, in the 1\Ir. MILLER, of New York. I ask consent that the billsjn.st re­ State of Tennessee-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post­ ported may be considered at this time. Roads. Mr. MORRILL. I object. ' The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Objectipn is made, and the bills will be placed on the Calendar. 1\Ir. COCKRELL, from the Committee on Military Affairs, to whom SENATE. was referred the joint resolution (S. R. No. 89) directing the Secre­ tary of War to loan tents and camp equipage to the Second Regi­ TUESDAY, July 18, 1882. ment of Virginia Volunteers, reported it without amendment. l\1r. MILLER, of California from the Committee on Foreign Re­ The Senate met at eleven o'clock, a. m. Prayer by the Chaplain, lations, to whom was referred the joint resolution (B. R. No. 209) Rev.J.J.BULLOCK,D.D. to authorize the President of the United States to call an interna­ The Principal Le~islative Clerk proceeded to read the Journal of tional conference to fix on and recommend for universal adoption a yesterday's proceedings, whe~ on ~otion of .Mr. Mo~, and by common prime meridian to be used in the reckoning of longitude unanimous consent, the further readmg was dispensed w1th. and in the regulation of time throughout the world, reported it with PETITIO:NS AND 1\:lEMORIALS. an amendment; and submitted a report thereon, which was ordered to be printed. Mr. PENDLETON presented a petition of 64 citizens of Ohio, Mr. ANTHONY, from the Committee on Naval .Affairs, to whom prayin~ for the confirmation of the call for a peace congress to meet was referred an amendment to the bill (B. R. No. 6716) making ap­ in Washington in November, 1882; which was referred to the Com­ propriations for sundry civil expenses of the Government for the mittee on ~,oreign Relations. fiscal year ending June 30, 1883, and for other purposes, the amend­ Mr. SEWELL. lpresentthep.etitionofWilliamHughes, late of the ment providing for an appropriation of $5,000 for repairing and ex.:. Capitol police, praying to be granted all pay and allo:wa.nces1 such as tending wharf and the erection of boat-houses at Coaster's Harbor would have accrued to him as a member of the Cap1tol police force Island, reported it favorably and muved its reference to the Com­ had he neve_r be~n dischar~ed on a certain false alleg~tion .. Attached mittee on Appropriations; which was agreed to. to the petition 1s the certificate of George B. Corkbill, Uruted States attorney for the District of Columbi~. I move tha;t the .Pe_tition be BILLS INTRODUCED. printetl, and referred to the Comnnttee on Public Buildings and Mr. ANTHONY asked and, by unanimous consent, obtained leave Grounds. to introduce a bill (S. No. 2155) to authorize the Public Printer to The motion was agreed to. . make certain purchases with.out previous advertisement; which was Mr. MITCHELL presented resolutions of the board of health of read twice by its title, and referred to the Committee on Printing. Philadelphia, praying for an appropriation to continue the publica­ Mr. JACKSON (by request) asked and, by unanimous consent, ob­ tion of the bulletins of the National Board of Health; which were tained leave to introduce a bill (S. No. 2156) granting a pension to referred to the Committee on Appropriations. · Mrs. E. G. C. Abbott; which was read twice ny its title, and, with Be also presented a petition of citizens of York, Pennsylvania, the accompanying pa.per, referred to the Committee on Pensions. praying that the reductions in the tax on tobacco may by the pro­ posed legislation on the subject be made to take effect from the pas­ ORDER OF BUSINESS. sao-e of the act; which was ordered to lie on the table. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there be no further morning i1r. LOGAN. At the request of the Senator from Ohio, [~1r. SHER­ business the morning hour is closed. MA.."f ] I present the petition of John P. Hamlin, foreman, and the Mr. COCKRELL. The Calendar. othe~ jurors in the Guiteau case, praying for additional compensation Mr.l\IORRILL. I understand that the Senator from Rhode Island of 5 a day for their services a-s such jurors. I move the reference has some business to present which is in order, and as soon as he of the petition to the Committee on Appropriations. gets through with that I shall ask the Senate to continue the con­ The motion was agreed to. sideration of the tax bill. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Vermont gave .A1t:lENDMEli."'TS TO BILLS. 1 notice yesterday that lie would not call up the tax bill to-day until Mr. COCKRELL, Mr. DAWES, Mr. GROOME, and Mr. VANCE one o'clock. submitted amendments intended to be proposed by them respect­ 1\Ir. 1\IORRILL. I know but I have altered my mind. ively to the bill (B. R. No. 6716) making appropriation~ for sundry Mr. ANTHONY. I ask the Chair to lay before the Senate the res­ civil expenses of the Government for the fiscal year ending June 30, olution for printing the Tenth Census, which I think comes up in 1883, and for other purposes; which were referred to the Committee order on the Calendar. on Appropriations, and ordered to be printed. The PRESIDENT p1·o temp(}re. That is' in order under the rule. Mr. ALDRICH submitted an amendment intentled to be proposed The resolution will be read. by him to the bill (H. R. No. 6716) makin(J' appropriations for ~he The Acting Secretary proceeded to read the bill (S. No. 2151) to sundry civil expenses of the Government for the fiscal year ending provide for the publication of the Tenth Census. June 30, 1883, and for other purposes; which was referred to the The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The Senator from Rhode Island Committee on Naval .Affairs. asks for the consideration of this bill. If there be no objection, it is before the Senate. REPORTS QF COl\!1\IITTEES. Mr. MORRILL I object to the consideration of the bij.l. I thought 1\Ir. COCKRELL, from the Committee on Military Affairs, to whom it was a resolution, which would be in order, but it seems to be a bill, was referred the bill (S. No. 2037) to amend the military record of and I therefore object, and ask that the Senate proceed to the con­ Samuel S. Troy, submitted an adverse report thereon, which was sideration of the tax bill. ordered to be printed i_ and the bill was postponed indefinitely. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Vermont objects .Mr. COCKRELL. 1 am directed by the Committee on Military to the present consideration of the bill. .Affairs, to which were referred sundry bills, authorizing the Secretary Mr. ANTHONY. The Senator from Vermont is right; I thought of War to donate cast-iron cannon and cannon-balls for the decora­ jt was a resolution, but I find that it is a bill. tion of certain cemeteries and national monuments, to report them Mr. BOAR. Before the bill passes from the Senate I should like favorably without amendment. to give notice of an amendment to it. I ask the Senator from Ver­ The bills were announced by title, as follows: mont to give consent to have the bill taken up, so as to have the A bill (H. R. No. 6149) donating condemned cast-iron cannon for amendment I propose printed with the bill. monumental purposes; Mr. MORRILL. I have no objection to having the amendment .A. bill (H. R. No. 6679) donating condemned cast-iron cannon to printed with the bill. the town of Hatfield, Massachusetts, for monumental purposes; The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator ask to have the .A. bill (H. R. No. 6721) authorizing the Secretary of War to de­ amendment read f liver to Edward Pye Post No. 179 of the Grand Army of the Republic Mr. HOAR. It is not necessary that it be read now.