At Berkeley, a new documentary by Frederick Wiseman

n March 12, 2014, the Academy hosted a program at its 2006th Stated Meeting about “At Berkeley,” a new doc- umentary by Frederick Wiseman. The program included screened selections from the film, followed by a panel O discussion with Frederick Wiseman (filmmaker),Robert J. Birgeneau (Chancellor Emeritus and Silverman Professor of Physics, Materials Science, and Engineering and Public Policy at the University of California, Berkeley), George W. Breslauer (Executive Vice Chancellor and Provost, Emeritus at the University of California, Berkeley), and Mark S. Schlissel (Provost of and President-Elect of the University of Michigan). Lawrence S. Bacow (President Emeritus of and President-in-Residence in the Higher Education Program at the Harvard Graduate School of Education) moderated the discussion.

Lawrence S. Bacow have the privilege of moderating the Frederick Wiseman I discussion this evening with Frederick Lawrence S. Bacow is President Emeritus of Wiseman, our filmmaker, and with three Frederick Wiseman is an independent film- Tufts University. He is currently serving as individuals who were at Berkeley during maker. He was elected a Fellow of the American President-in-Residence in the Higher Education the filming: Robert Birgeneau, George Bres­ Academy of Arts and Sciences in 1991. Program at the Harvard Graduate School of lauer, and Mark Schlissel. I will start the dis- Education. He was elected a Fellow of the Amer- cussion with a question for Fred: Why did had been doing a series on education, ican Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2003. you decide to focus on higher education? I and I wanted to focus on public universi- ties. uc Berkeley is a great public university, and much to my surprise, I received permis- sion to do the film there.

Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, Summer 2014 25 presentations

Lawrence Bacow Fred’s proposal with George Breslauer, pro- vost of the university, who was a little more Did you go to Bob Birgeneau, who was then skeptical than I was. (I will let George talk Chancellor of the university, or did you go to about that later.) somebody else? Subsequently, I called the people in our journalism and film departments, asking Frederick Wiseman them what they thought. Fred is such a hero to people in film studies and filmmaking, so I went to Bob; you always go to the top. their response was incredibly positive. They convinced us to meet with Fred in person to explore the possibility further. We invited Fred to campus to begin hav- Bob, I am curious who you had to talk to ing a conversation. One of the first observa- before you were willing to commit to this tions that he made was that Harvard, mit, project, and what you thought the risks and Berkeley appear in more than a hundred were in letting someone come in and shoot Hollywood films, includingLove Story (Har- 250 hours of film on your campus. How did vard), Basic Instinct and The Graduate (Berke- you get other people to agree to participate? ley), and Good Will Hunting (mit). This gives Robert J. Birgeneau you a taste of how universities are typically Robert J. Birgeneau is Chancellor Emeritus portrayed in movies. Fred said that by con- and Silverman Professor of Physics, Materials trast he wanted to make a film showing how Science, and Engineering and Public Policy of universities, which are very complex insti- the University of California, Berkeley. He was tutions, actually run. I thought that this was a fascinating idea. elected a Fellow of the American Academy of Obviously, there were some risks, but we Arts and Sciences in 1987. decided that these were risks worth tak- ing. In addition, Fred was very persuasive; redrick first contacted Candace Slater, among other things, he convinced us that he Fthe English professor who is speaking was sincere. in the very first vignette that we saw earlier. Candace had been head of our Townsend Humanities Center when Fred visited Berkeley for a week in the mid-1990s. She sent me an email saying that Fred Wiseman was interested in making a film Lawrence Bacow about Berkeley. Anyone who has lived in Massachusetts for any length of time, as I My guess, George, is that you and Bob could have, knows of Fred because of his filmTit - get together and decide this was a good idea, icut Follies, which helped transform mental but maybe not everyone else on campus health care in the state of Massachusetts. would follow your lead. What was the pro- Berkeley is a place where we like to believe cess like in persuading faculty members and that we live on the edge, so if Berkeley’s not students to allow Fred into their classrooms? willing to consider this kind of project, then probably no other institution in the country would. I thought that at the minimum it was a very interesting idea. I initially discussed

26 Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, Summer 2014 “at berkeley”

Lawrence Bacow

Did you get anyone to sign a release?

George Breslauer

No. We did not get major blowback, but sometimes Fred was closed out, or he would get frustrated that enough doors were not being opened. He would then come to me and say, “I can’t do this film unless you get some doors opened.” I would make a phone call or send an email to a professor in that particular unit that I thought would be espe- cially responsive to my pleading for open- ness. Much to my delight, they agreed most of the time. There were some areas where he simply George W. Breslauer was not allowed, and we were in fact per- Mark Schlissel George W. Breslauer is Professor of the Gradu- suaded that he should not be allowed: for Mark Schlissel is Provost of Brown University and ate School; Professor of Political Science, Emer- example, when leaders in our development President-Elect of the University of Michigan. itus; and Executive Vice Chancellor and Provost, office were discussing donors and strategies Emeritus at the University of California, Berke- for approaching donors. e were presented with the opportu- ley. He was elected a Fellow of the American Lawrence Bacow nity to project an image of Berke- Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2014. W ley, and that is something the faculty and Mark, you were a faculty member and a the leadership were extremely proud to be t is true that we made the decision jointly dean at Berkeley when all of this was going part of. We did not have as much fear as you Iand did not really ask anybody else. We on. I am interested in your perspective. might imagine we would have. did not do a market survey to figure out George and Bob, when they set this up, whether people would lock their doors if had Fred agree that if we asked him to stop Fred’s cameras were approaching. We did and leave, he would stop and leave. So the not ask the Academic Senate or seek any hardest part was just getting used to some- other such approval. body with a camera and a sound boom 12 inches from your face as you were in discus- sion. Once you forgot he was there, we just went about our business.

Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, Summer 2014 27 presentations

Lawrence Bacow have a forty-eight-hour window in which to George Breslauer insist that a particular segment be removed. Did you get asked to leave very often, Fred? Fred was, of course, correctly reluctant to That is a question that is always asked, and agree to that, because he thought he might entirely legitimately so, because you would Frederick Wiseman lose the juiciest parts. assume that people would be self-conscious The only person who ended up exercising about being filmed. In the sequences in No. that right was me, and I did so five times. which I happened to be involved, I was And five out of five times, it was about poli- struck by how quickly we simply went on Lawrence Bacow ticians in Sacramento. with our work and saw the camera and sound mic almost like a fly on the wall. At Were there times in which you thought it Lawrence Bacow the time of filming, Berkeley was going was hard to tell the story that you wanted through some difficulties. We did not have to tell? Fred, in making this film, what do you the luxury of wasting meetings playing to think is the most powerful insight you had the camera or saying things that we would Frederick Wiseman about either Berkeley or higher education not have otherwise said. in general? I did not really know the story I wanted to tell. I discovered the story in the editing. While I was at Berkeley, all I tried to do was What I think I learned, and what I hope the film stimulate sequences that I thought would shows, is the devotion on the part of a lot of people be interesting. I used only one-sixtieth of the total material I collected. In the kind of in the administration to maintaining the standards filmmaking I do, there is no script, no story, and integrity of the university. no thesis in advance.

Lawrence Bacow Frederick Wiseman Robert Birgeneau

Was there a time for any of the three of you I did not really know much about Berkeley Another way you may have asked the ques- when you were nervous about what was before I started. What I think I learned, and tion is, are there things we wish were in the being recorded in real time? what I hope the film shows, is the devotion movie that are not? Fred would say no, but on the part of a lot of people in the admin- for me the answer is yes. One of the major Robert Birgeneau istration to maintaining the standards and issues that we had to deal with locally and integrity of the university. at the state and national levels was the chal- Just to add a couple of details to what Fred lenges faced by our undocumented stu- said in terms of the agreement–we actually Lawrence Bacow dents. In California, we have a very large did not have a signed contract when he first number of these students. You may not started to film. That turned out to be a good One of the things the film does quite remark- know that Berkeley was the first university thing because in one of the early meetings ably is to convey the complexity and texture in the United States to offer comprehensive involving the university’s chief leadership of an institution of this greatness. Everybody financial aid to undocumented students, team, I said something quite inappropriate. who went to college thinks they can run one. something we are very proud of. Fred got I could see my associate chancellor turn pur- This film helps counter that feeling by show- to film the beginnings of that. We had an ple because it was now captured on film. ing that a lot goes into the decision-making. undergraduate student organization called So for the sake of Berkeley’s interests and Was there any time, George, that the rise, Rising Immigrant Students for Edu- well-being, I went and talked to our lawyer, routine decision-making that goes on in a cation, which was a cover for our undoc- and after a bit of back and forth, Fred ulti- provost’s office was in any way altered or umented students. rise had about forty mately agreed that people like myself would influenced by the presence of the camera? students, the vast majority of whom were

28 Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, Summer 2014 “at berkeley”

One of the things that attracted us to Fred’s offer George Breslauer to make this film was his feeling that no one had We mentioned earlier that the internal workings of the development office were ever looked at how higher education institutions not part of the film. Neither was the office of are governed. Others have looked at what happens the president, which is the presidency over the entire California system. The regents at universities, whether in the teaching realm or the were also not part of the film. So the broader governance structure that constrains the social realm, but not at how they are governed. choices that we make at the campus level was not visible in the film. One of the things Chicano. The president of rise came to talk lic universities to provide full financial aid that attracted us to Fred’s offer to make this to me about how we could make progress on to undocumented students. So it was a phe- film was his feeling that no one had ever the political front for undocumented stu- nomenal success, Fred captured it, and yet it looked at how higher education institu- dents in this country. Fred found this meet- is not in the documentary. So I asked Fred, tions are governed. Others have looked at ing on my schedule, and we agreed that he “How could you not include this? It is the what happens at universities, whether in the could film it. But during that autumn, it hap- single most important thing that happened teaching realm or the social realm, but not pened that one of the Republican candidates in the entire 250 hours of filming.” And he at how they are governed. What was unique for governor of California promised to send replied correctly–which shows that I am about this film was its ability to peer into the the immigration police onto the California an academic, not a filmmaker–that since chancellor- and provost-level discussions of university and college campuses to grab he shot from the back what he captured what to do, given the perceived options. But all the undocumented students and deport may have been “important politically, but it it did not go into the deliberations of those them. And so not surprisingly, I was uncom- makes for bad film.” people or governing bodies that constrained fortable about having this undocumented our options. student filmed by Fred. When we had the Lawrence Bacow meeting, the student actually wanted to be Question and Answer Session filmed because he wanted his story heard, so Berkeley does not have its own board of Fred agreed to film him from the back. regents, but rather there is a California sys- Question This was perhaps the most extraordinary tem-wide board of regents. What do you half hour of my entire service as Chancellor think the conversation would be like if you What years were covered in the film? at Berkeley, because this young man talked had to persuade a board that this was a proj- in detail about his life as an undocumented ect worth undertaking? Frederick Wiseman person. His mother worked in a sweatshop in Los Angeles. The student described all the Robert Birgeneau The film was shot between August and challenges that he had faced and continued November 2010. to encounter, any one of which might well Berkeley is almost ungoverned from above; totally defeat an ordinary student. That there is no equivalent of the Harvard Cor- Robert Birgeneau meeting was so important to me personally, poration or the mit Corporation. There that I immediately became politically active are the Regents, but they are well separated That was an important period. When I on behalf of our dreamers. We got bills from the individual campuses. There was no started as chancellor of Berkeley in 2004, providing financial aid to undocumented one to ask for permission, because there was the state provided about 30 percent of our students passed in the state senate. I met virtually no one immediately in charge. budget. There was a commitment from with the governor on this issue four times, Governor Schwarzenegger that this amount and he ultimately signed the bills into law. would go up progressively, year by year. By California thereby became the first state in 2010, we had suffered two consecutive years the union to enact legislation allowing pub- of precipitous cuts, with state funding very

Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, Summer 2014 29 presentations

quickly dropping from 30 percent to 16 per- Question displayed, or sometimes both. In the Bay cent. We lost the salaries of close to half of Area reviews, there is a lot of negativity and our staff in a two-year period. And so the What has been the reaction to the film, snark. Newspapers in the Bay Area have a film captured the whole university trying to particularly outside of the university and tendency to haze the administrators and deal with a level of disinvestment that was perhaps in the political arena? Has it led to valorize the protestors. By contrast, the pro- literally unprecedented in the history of the more awareness of what universities face? testors featured in the film come across as University of California. rather vapid, and the administrators come Robert Birgeneau across as struggling to deal with difficult Comment from the Audience choices. That was not music to the ears of People who have seen this film have been very the local newspaper editorial boards. For those of us who were watching what was appreciative of just how rich and complex going on in California from a distance, it these institutions are. However, that does not Question was quite extraordinary. Other institutions mean that anyone has come down from Sacra- were trying to take advantage of all the fur- mento to say, “I am sorry that we did this hor- Quiet scholarship is an essential part of a loughs in the California system by raiding rible thing to you.” On the other hand, as we university, but I imagine that must be hard your faculty right and left. The leadership went through the worst parts of the state dis- to portray cinematically. Did you try? of Berkeley at that time did an extraordinary investment, our donors, alumni, and friends Frederick Wiseman

One of the aspects of the film that I like best is the I did not try to do that. I was not sure that classroom scenes, in which really great scholars are I knew how to capture “quiet scholarship.” teaching undergraduates. . . . The film is an adver- Robert Birgeneau tisement for the exciting work that goes on at great There is one exception: a wonderful seg- research universities in general, public or private. ment where Saul Perlmutter is conducting a research seminar. This was one year before Saul received the Nobel Prize for the very job. Fred, I am glad that you let the rest of us finally became aware that our financial model work that he was discussing in that sem- observe some of the important decisions in was now not that different from that of mit, inar. At the end of the segment featuring real time. We all owe you guys a debt of grat- Yale, or Harvard, and that they needed to step that seminar, at least at the New York Film itude for preserving one of the jewels in the up in the same way that the alumni of these Festival, the entire audience burst out in crown of American public higher education. and many other private universities routinely laughter–not because Saul was so funny, do. Our alumni offered support in a way that which he can be, but because the subject Robert Birgeneau was really marvelous during a terrible period matter was so incomprehensible to a gen- of state disinvestment. eral audience. At the time I asked George, “Why aren’t we One of the aspects of the film that I like losing faculty? Why haven’t the East Coast George Breslauer best is the classroom scenes, in which really private universities been more successful great scholars are teaching undergraduates. in disassembling our university while the We have been monitoring the reviews of the Fred captured a lot of this, and the film man- state disinvests?” I think the faculty stayed film, including those from closer to home ages to make you think, “Boy, would I like because of one another: the density of qual- in the Bay Area. What is striking is how a to be an undergraduate again and be in that ity scholars and the shared commitment to large majority of the reviews from outside class!” In this respect, the film is an adver- research and teaching as well as our public the Bay Area are highly appreciative of the tisement for the exciting work that goes purpose. It is hard to imagine a better place film, either because of Fred Wiseman’s on at great research universities in general, to be a scholar. craftsmanship or because of the university public or private.

30 Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, Summer 2014 “at berkeley”

Lawrence Bacow We hear a lot about how these great residential insti- It is also a great advertisement for what tutions are going to become dinosaurs, because we happens when we actually bring real faculty together with real students in a residential will be able to provide all this education digitally. One setting in real time. We hear a lot about how of the things the film does brilliantly is to illustrate the these great residential institutions are going to become dinosaurs, because we will be magic that happens in an actual classroom. able to provide all this education digitally. One of the things the film does brilliantly and get first addressed there, too. Consider Lawrence Bacow is to illustrate the magic that happens in an undocumented students, as Bob mentioned actual classroom. earlier. Universities across the country are Can you explain how you financed the film? devising ways to deal with this issue at a Question political, social, and financial level. Other Frederick Wiseman aspects that have to do with budget cri- Is the film meant to portray what Berkeley ses or calling in consultants or looking at There are only eight or ten places in the is about, or is it a film about what higher how we do the back office part of running world where I can go for money. I usually education is capable of within the broader a university. Berkeley is big enough, ambi- get about 15 percent of my budget from pbs, public education landscape? tious enough, and complex enough that it is with other contributions from a combina- somewhat of a canary in a coal mine for the tion of sources such as the Ford Foundation, George Breslauer higher education sector as a whole. the National Endowment for the Arts, the Independent Television Service (itvs), the I think of this film as if you are looking at a Question bbc, or French television. (I made a couple hundred impressionist paintings on recur- of films in France, so I have been eligible for ring themes. The paintings are lined up side Is there a record of what the reaction to the French subsidies.) Sometimes I have money by side, and you have two-and-a-half min- film has been in places outside the United from private foundations. utes on average in front of each one. The States? themes would recur over the course of the Lawrence Bacow film’s four hours, and you gain an impres- Robert Birgeneau sion in the process. The pastoral scenes I just have to observe that many of those in could be any other university. The classroom Just last week I received an email from Pres- Congress who have been hostile to higher scenes could be any other great university. ident François Hollande’s press attaché education have also been hostile to some of The extracurricular student activities could extolling the virtues of the movie, and of the sources that have been funding your films. be any other great university, whether it is Berkeley, and saying that she was going to music-related activities or rotc or throw- make sure that her daughter got her univer- Question ing a Frisbee on the lawn. What is unique to sity education at Berkeley. But this film is Berkeley, I think, is the deliberation among not just about Berkeley; it is about how the Did you document the relationship between the administrators with regard to handling American research university is a unique the academic side of Berkeley and its ath- the crisis in which we found ourselves. institution. Even though we copied the form letic prowess? from the Germans, we now do universities Mark Schlissel a lot better than any other country in the Frederick Wiseman world except, perhaps, Great Britain. Having been at a number of different insti- We did about ninety seconds of football and tutions, I can report that all our institutions maybe sixty-five seconds of women’s field are dealing with the same problems. Yet it hockey. seems as if they bubble up first at Berkeley,

Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, Summer 2014 31 presentations

Question The sports entertainment business brings great How do you explain these rather strange notoriety to our universities. . . . We must not, relationships we have between major uni- versities and public entertainment, partic- though, lose sight of the fact that we are academic ularly in terms of athletics? institutions, and sports are auxiliary, an extracurric- Mark Schlissel ular activity.

It is a real challenge getting the balance riolic email, hateful beyond belief, just try George Breslauer right. The sports entertainment business cutting major sports like baseball and rugby. brings great notoriety to our universities. I had seen this coming a year in advance We have very few donors who give only to Many of our peers claim that application because the intercollegiate athletics budget athletics. When you look at the list of major numbers go up when the home team has was spiraling out of control, so that we were donors to athletics, for the most part they a good season. We must not, though, lose not going to be able to continue to support also make large donations to the academic sight of the fact that we are academic insti- our athletics program in the way that we tra- side. n tutions, and sports are auxiliary, an extra- ditionally had. And so I sent an email to our curricular activity. You have to keep that major donors to athletics, saying that their © 2014 by Lawrence S. Bacow, Frederick separation in mind while recognizing the sports were in danger and they needed to Wiseman, Robert J. Birgeneau, George W. community-building aspects of intercolle- step up. They didn’t, and so we announced Breslauer, and Mark Schlissel, respectively giate sports. that we were being forced to cut the sports. Then the alumni athletic supporters all Robert Birgeneau came to me and asked what they could do. To view or listen to the presentations, visit https://www.amacad.org/ Baseball, which had been raising about atberkeley. Just one factoid: an important role that $300,000 a year to support the team, mag- men’s football and men’s basketball play is ically raised $10 million in six weeks imme- that they generate a lot of income, and that diately after we announced the prospective income supports our Olympic sports. In the demise of the team as a varsity sport. The London summer Olympics, Berkeley ath- same thing happened in rugby. It was an letes, including both current students and extraordinary phenomenon. graduates, won the same number of gold One of the people who gave $1 million to medals as did France and Germany. And baseball also gave $5 million to support aca- four of the Pac-12 schools–Berkeley, ucla, demic programs in Public Policy. So, had we Stanford, and usc–account for nearly not saved the baseball team, we might well one half of the gold medals that the United not have received the $5 million for Public States has won historically in the summer Policy. At a pac-12 university like Berke- Olympics. ley academic and athletic philanthropy One of the things I had to do in the mid- are much more tightly connected than you dle of the funding challenges, because the could ever imagine. faculty demanded it and we really had no choice, was to announce at a press confer- ence (which Fred filmed, but thank God did not put in the film) that Berkeley would no longer have varsity rugby, men’s baseball, women’s lacrosse, or men’s and women’s gymnastics. If you ever want to receive vit-

32 Bulletin of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, Summer 2014