Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 24 AUGUST 1961

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

42 Address in Reply [ASSEMBLY] Questions

THURSDAY, 24 AUGUST, 1961

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, Murrumba) took the chair at 11 a.m.

QUESTIONS

COST OF TRANSPORT WEIGHBRIDGE AT GAILES Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ Leader of the Opposition) asked the Minister for Development, Mines, Main Roads and Electricity- "(1) What was the total cost of build­ ings, installations, and other construc­ tional work associated with tl:re establish­ ment of the transport weighbridge and checkpoint at Gailes?" "(2) What staff are employed?" "(3) What is the estimated annual cost of operating the weighbridge, inclusive of wages and maintenance?" "(4) Has a decision been made on the siting of the second weighbridge and check­ point on the South Coast and, if so, what progress has been made in respect of this installation?" Questions [24 AUGUST] Questions 43

Hon. E. EVAl'\1§ (Mirani) replied- also affected. Because of the Australia­ "(1) The total cost to date has been wide nature of the problem and of the fact £88,190 18s. 5d." that the marketing of tobacco leaf is closely interwoven with questions of tariff "(2) Twenty-six." policy and imports, which are Common­ wealth functions, it is felt that the present "(3) £38,200." problem can only be dealt with effectively "(4) A weighbridge will be located at on a Commonwealth basis. The Rt. Hon. Coomera. All access roads and roadways, J. McEwen, the Commonwealth Minister hardstandings, &c., within the weighbridge for Trade, recently indicated in a press area have been constructed and sealed. statement that the Federal Government Inspection pits have been excavated and intended to ensure there was a payable concreted. The weighbridge metal frames market for locally grown tobacco that was are on the site. The weighbridge dials suitable for Australian smokers. In his have been delivered. The erection of the statement on August 17, Mr. McEwen buildings by contract has been com­ intimated that the Commonwealth Govern­ menced." ment had been in close and continuous contact with growers' organisations and manufacturers and that it was unanimously UNEMPLOYMENT IN TOWNSVILLE agreed even by the growers that some of the unsold leaf was not useable. However, Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) asked the he stated that there was also a quantity of Minister for Labour and Industry- leaf which was useable and for which manu­ "As it is conservatively anticipated tlrat facturers had made offers at prices which there will be 1,000 men and women unem­ were not satisfactory to the growers. Mr. ployed in Townsville before Christmas, McEwen stated that the matter has again what steps, if any, does he propose to take been discussed by himself and the Ministers to find work for as many of these as for Primary Industry and Customs and possible?" Excise with a committee of the Australian Tobacco Growers' Council and the Council Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) had asked the Commonwealth Government replied- to lend the assistance of some of its "! refer the Honourable Gentleman to skilled officers. It was expected that State the reply furnished by the Honourable the Governments would be asked to help in a Premier to a question on unemployment similar manner. In this way, it should be yesterday. This matter will, however, be possible to make a full examination not fully dealt with in debate in this Chamber only of auction results but of the general next week." problems associated with the industry. A committee consisting of technical represen­ tatives of manufacturers, growers' organisa­ SUGGESTED INQUIRY INTO TOBACCO INDUSTRY tions, State Departments, selling brokers and the Department of Primary Industry Hon. P. J. R. HILTON (Carnarvon) asked has been set up to examine the question of the Premier- No Bid leaf. In the circumstances, it would "In view of the parlous and distressed appear that the suggestion made by the state of the tobacco growing industry in Honourable Member for a Royal Commis­ this State as a result of the large quantity sion is somewhat premature. The Honour­ of leaf remaining unsold at this year's able Gentleman can be assured that my tobacco sales and the low average prices Government will give every possible assist­ received by the growers for that portion of and and support to these moves at the the crop that was sold, also because of Commonwealth level in order to arrive at the disastrous effect this slump is having a solution of the present tobacco leaf on tlris important primary industry and problem." the economic welfare of so many provin­ cial towns, will he take urgent action to appoint a Royal Commission or other UNEMPLOYMENT AMONG TEENAGERS appropriate tribunal to inquire fully into Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) asked the (a) the reasons for such a sudden decline Minister for Labour and Industry- in the prices and demand for Australian­ grown leaf, (b) the efficiency of the pre­ "Concerning the Committee appointed by sent method of disposal of such leaf, and him to examine unemployment among (c) all other factors that may be operating teenagers- to the detriment of this industry?" (!) How many times has the Com­ mittee met? Hon. G. F. R. NICKUN (Landsborough) replied- (2) Have they taken any oral or written evidence from any person or organisa­ "My Government realises that the present tion? problems associated with the sale of tobacco leaf are not confined to Queensland alone, (3) Have they made any report? If as the other producing States of New South so, what was the report, and, if not, when Wales, Victoria and Western Australia are will they make one?" 44 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) "The arrangements for establishing the replied- office were made the responsibility of Mr. "( I to 3) I have not appointed a Com­ V. C. Gair, Industries Establishment and mittee to examine unemployment among Expansion Officer, who was in attendance teenagers. The Committee the Honourable at the Fair for its full duration. Member refers to was the Committee of "The following are extracts from the Departmental heads announced by the very helpful and interesting report, which Honourable the Premier early in April has been submitted by Mr. Gair:­ 1961." , 'Queensland's Information Bureau, as I elect to call it, was bright and attractive.' " QUEENSLAND EXHIBIT AT WORLD TRADE FAIR, SYDNEY Opposition Members interjected. Mr. MANN (Brisbane) asked the Minister Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I want to warn for Labour and Industry- the hon. member for South Brisbane again. I have already cautioned hon. members about "In respect of the Queensland Exhibit at interjections during question time. If hon. the World Trade Fair in Sydney early in the month- members ask questions I consider they should have the decency to listen to the answers. (1) Who was responsible for the form and nature of the exhibit the determina­ Mr. MORRIS: I am still quoting Mr. Gair. tion of the area and its acquisition? He goes on- " 'It was constructed of Queensland tim­ (2) What rental was paid for the area? bers, appropriately branded, and decor­ (3) What Government officers were in ated with a beautiful map of Queensland, charge of the exhibit and what was the made up of Queensland cabinet woods, total cost of their salaries accommoda­ with the industries carried on in the tion, travelling and other e~penses? various parts of the State indicated by an inlaid motif. This map attracted much (4) What was the total cost of the attention and admiration. On one side exhibit, inclusive of all factors? wall, there were eight beautifully coloured (5) Has he seen the adverse criticism and framed pictures of Queensland tourist of the exhibit by George Blaikie in 'The attractions. On the other side wall, there Sun~ay Mail' of August 6 last, and, if were eight large and excellent industrial so, Is he in a position to say whether pictures. this was a fair appreciation of Queens­ 'All these pictures attracted a great land's effort at the Trade Fair?" deal of interest, and invited many ques­ tions on our tourist attractions and Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) industrial potential. replied- 'On the front of the counter was a "(1 t.o 5) During the latter part of 1960, large painted photograph of Surfers I considered proposals submitted by my Paradise Beach, illuminated with a ~epartment for a combined Queensland fluorescent tube. On the top front of d1splay to represent the State and its the stand was a large plastic sign, bear­ secondary industries. ing the Maltese Cross and the word "It was obvious, however, that these pro­ 'Queensland' in coloured lettering, which posals demanded the support of the indus­ also was illuminated by a fluorescent tube trial and commercial leaders of the State, behind it. consequently a meeting was arranged and 'From the ceiling, fluorescent tubes held in my office, at which representatives were hung, which lighted up the office of the Chambers of Manufactures and and shone on the pictures on the side Commerce and industrial leaders number­ walls. The parquetry floor also made ing nearly twenty, discussed with me the of Queensland timbers received much details of the proposals submitted by my favourable comment. Department. 'I repeat, Queensland's display, while "The advice received from this advisory indisputably small, was bright and attrac­ group was to the effect that participation tive, and won much commendation. in the Trade Fair was not warranted. 'It was the opinion of most people that we had done much in a small area. "As a result of this advice, my Depart­ ment's proposals were not proceeded with. 'In addition to the innumerable Ho~~ver, in order to ensure that oppor­ inquiries regarding tourism, many ques­ tumties to contact visiting industrialists tions were asked concerning industrial would not be lost, it was arranged to activities, employment, housing, &c. At decorate and staff an office at the Fair for least, it can certainly be claimed that a this purpose. In addition, an officer of the greater number of people know more Sydney branch of the Queensland Govern­ about our State than they formerly did. ment Tourist Bureau was attached to the 'Our purpose for being represented at project. the Fair was to make contact with the Questions [24 AUGUST] Questions 45 thousands of people who attended, and gained much good publicity, excepting to inform them of what Queensland had of course from the "knockers" in our to offer in the field of tourism and own State.'" industry. Mr. Duggan: You had to knock to get into 'I say, unhesitatingly, this purpose to the place. a great measure was achieved. Honourable Members interjected. 'With the exception of three evenings, I was at the Fair until 10 p.m. when it Mr. Burrows: Selling unity tickets between closed each day. During the time I was the Liberal Party and the Q.L.P. not in attendance at the information Mr. Hilton: You will get all you want. bureau, I endeavoured to contact and interest representatives of overseas and Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I must warn hon. Australian manufacturers in Queensland. members that under Standing Order 123A 'It became apparent to me early that they are liable to suspension from the the chief concern of the companies repre­ Chamber after having been warned for sented was to obtain orders for their grossly disorderly conduct. I shall have no goods, and distributors in Australia in hesitation in warning the hon. member and the case of overseas companies for their dealing with him if he continues to disobey commodities. In most cases, the per­ my previous rulings. sons in charge of the various displays Mr. Burrows: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I were salesmen attached to the companies just wanted to draw your attention to the or, in the case of overseas' manufacturers, fact that-- a representative of some Australian importer of their products. None of .Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I take the oppor­ these people was in a position to dis­ tunity of warning the hon. member for Port cuss with me the matter of establishing a Curtis now that I will deal with him under factory in Queensland. Managing direc­ Standing Order 123A if he interrupts once tors, general managers, or anyone else more. with authority to speak for the com­ panies, were not to be found at their Mr. MORRIS: The answer to this question respective display. has been made full deliberately because I want all hon. members to understand the 'A perusal of the list of Australian situation clearly. The answer continues- exhibitors showed that this field did not offer great scope for an approach for the "The area of 120 square feet was made extension of manufacture to Queensland. available to the Queensland Government, Eliminate from the list Government, free of any rental charge. The total cost semi-Government, banks and insurance of the exhibit, inclusive of all factors, is companies' displays, and those of con­ not yet available, but the Honourable structing engineers, the balance of com­ Member may be assured that it is not panies represented at the Fair did not extensive, compared with the valuable pub­ provide a very fertile field in which to licity which this State gained. sow our seed. Many of them are small, "I emphasise that neither Victoria, South and are engaged in the production of Australia, Tasmania, or even any area of goods, which are already being produced New South Wales outside Sydney was repre­ in Queensland in ample supply, whilst the sented at all. engineering, machine and foundry com­ "The cost of an elaborate display would panies represented are doing work simi­ have been great, and, in my opinion, we lar to that already being undertaken in are using that money more effectively this State. elsewhere." 'I suppose I should report, for record purposes, that West Australia, Queens­ land and Sydney were the only States ILLEGAL PARKING BY MR. BRIAN KEHOE represented at the Fair. Mr. MANN (Brisbane) asked the Minister 'The West Australia display was very for Labour and Industry- nice, in which large black and white "(]) Is he aware of a report in the photographs of scenic and industrial pro­ 'Sunday Mail' of April 9 last, stating that jects, such as the oil refinery, pre­ on the previous day the Queensland Labour dominated. A collection of West Aus­ Party Candidate for South Brisbane in the tralian wild flowers, and large pictures Brisbane City Council elections, Mr. Brian of Herb Elliott and other Australian Kehoe, was 'almost given a "ticket" for athletes, who hail from West Australia, illegal parking' while speaking at a meeting were prominent, together with much pub­ attended by the Q.L.P. President, Mr. licity for the Empire Games to be held V. C. Gair?" in Perth next year. "(2) If the said candidate's car was 'I consider our participation in the Fair parked in a prohibited area, as alleged, was justified, and for the comparatively will he explain why he was not booked for small amount expended Queensland this breach?" 46 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) construction of a new bridge over the replied- Burdekin River at Macrossan, I am " (I and 2) The report in the 'Sunday informed that the cutting of certain steel Mail' of April 9, had not come under my which comprises the minor portion of the notice, until the Honourable Member gave work of fabrication for this bridge was notice of his question, but now having subcontracted to a southern firm equipped read the report, I am amazed at the with machinery specially suited for the pettiness of this approach to such a purpose, which machinery is not available matter. Any reasonable person reading the in North Queensland where the balance of report would at once see that the Police the fabrication work is being carried out." Officer concerned was in doubt as to "(2) The approximate saving resulting whether the permit for the open air meet­ to the aforementioned contracts is ing entitled the car to be parked where it approximately £430,000." was, and it was not until he contacted his "(3) It is, and always has been, the Inspector that the position was determined. policy of the present Government to Apparently, the candidate in question was provide the utmost possible employment of the opinion that the permit enabled within the State." him to place his car, with the loud­ speaker equipment, where he did in Gibbon Street, but when informed to the MOTOR TRANSPORT FOR POLICE STATION, contrary, the car was driven away. It COEN would seem that the Honourable Mem­ Mr. ADAIR (Cook) asked the Minister for ber wants the Police Force to be used to Labour and Industry- persecute the public, irrespective of any "Owing to the urgent necessity for motor circumstances, but if this particular matter had been referred to me, I would have transport for Police stationed at Coen unhestitatingly approved of the manner in and the inconvenience now experienced which it was handled by the Police Officer having to travel long distances on horse­ concerned." back, will he have a Land Rover allocated to the area as soon as possible?

GovERNMENT CoNTRACTs OuTsiDE QuEENS- Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) LAND FOR STRUCTURAL AND PRE- replied- FABRICATION WORK As the Honourable Gentleman knows, much of the Police work at Coen requires Mr. S.HERRINGTON (Salisbury) asked the travelling in areas inaccessible to any Minister for Transport- vehicle. However, the matter will be "(1) What is the number of contracts for reconsidered and re-examined. structural and prefabrication work in con­ nection with the Mount Isa Railway and CLOSURE OF POLICE STATION AT other Government projects allocated to MouNT MoLLOY firms outside Queensland during the past twelve months?" Mr. ADAIR (Cook) asked the Minister for "(2) What is the saving to the Govern­ Labour and Industry- ment by the acceptance of inter-State "Has it been decided to close the Police tenders as against tenders by Queensland Station at Mount Molloy? If so, when firms?" will it be closed?" "(3) Does he agree that tlTis work should Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) have been given to Queensland firms to replied- help to alleviate the present unemploy­ The closure of Mount Molloy Police ment in this State?" Station has not been considered. Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) replied- LEASE OF LAND TO AMAGRAZE COMPANY, "( I) Advice furnished to me by the WALKAMIN AREA Mount Isa Project Consultants, Messrs. Mr. W ALLACE (Cairns) asked the Ford, Bacon and Davis, states that the Minister for Public Lands and Irrigation- only Mount Isa Railway Contracts which "(1) Is it a fact tlTat the Arnagraze have been awarded to other than Queens­ Company has been granted a lease of cer­ land firms are Project Contracts Nos. 6 tain land in the Walkamin Area of the and 7. The former is for bridges between Tinaroo irrigation project for the purpose Hughenden and Duchess. These bridges of cattle-fattening?" have precast prestressed concrete super­ structures and cast in place concrete sub­ "(2) If so, will he advise the House the structures. Contract No. 7 is for earth­ terms and conditions of the lease and works. All of the construction work, whether the Company or the Irrigation including prefabrication for both contracts Department was responsible for the cost of is being performed in Queensland by clearing?" Queensland labour. In relation to the "(3) If the Department was responsible, contract let to a Queensland firm for what was the actual cost?" Questions [24 AUGUST] Questions 47

Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham) the noise in the Chamber at the time I did replied- not observe the subject matter of the "(!) Amagraze Limited, who desire to question when notice of it was given, and explore the potentialities of cattle fattening as the last section of it is an expression of on irrigated pastures, were, by Cabinet opinion I consider it out of order. direction, granted a priority Special Lease Mr. BROMLEY: That opinion has already for this purpose for ten years over about 680 acres of land between Granite and been expressed by many other people in Maud Creeks in the Mareeba-Dimbulah Australia. Irrigation Area. The results achieved could Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I am leaving it be of great importance in respect to the entirely to the Minister. I think he has future use of non-tobacco soils served by already adequately answered a similar the project, and to the development of question this morning. Therefore this one is North Queensland in general. The Com­ superfluous but if the Minister wishes to pany's work will be a commercial extension answer it he may. I hold that the question of the Department of Agriculture and is not in order. Stock's experimental work at Kairi, Walka­ min and Parada." Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha): I "(2) The main conditions of the lease are agree completely with you, Mr. Speaker, and -(a) Special Lease for 10 years. The I dislike the term that has been used. I was Company may apply for conversion to prepared to tell the hon. member that he more permanent tenure at a later date. would get his answer in my reply to the (b) The Company is to establish within question asked by the hon. member for three years and maintain for the duration Brisbane. of the lease, at least 200 acres of irrigated fodders of which half is to be as recom­ DEVELOPMENT OF THE NORTH QUEENSLAND mended by the Department of Agriculture BEEF-CATTLE INDUSTRY and Stock. (c) The Irrigation Commission to-(i) Clear and prepare for irrigation, up Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) asked to 200 acres, (ii) Provide a house, barracks, the Minister for Public Lands and Irri­ implement shed and materials for external gation- fencing. (d) The Company to pay an annual "(1) Has his attention been drawn to the rental of £105 for the land plus eight per statement by the Federal Liberal Member cent. per annum of the Land Administra­ for Herbert to the Townsville Chamber of tion Commission's valuation of the build­ Commerce as published in 'The Towns­ ings and fencing materials. (e) The Com­ ville Daily Bulletin' of Friday, June 23, pany to pay for water used monthly at the 1961, wherein he declared amongst other prevailing charges in the Irrigation Area. things that the failure of the State to put (f) The Company to be responsible for all a proposition to the Commonwealth was corrective grading and the maintenance of holding up vitally needed development of the Crown's assets. (g) Should the Company the North Queensland beef-cattle industry convert the Special Lease to a permanent and that unfortunately the State appears tenure, the Company would pay for all to be doing nothing about it?" Crown improvements on the property "(2) Is this statement in fact correct and, including the cost of clearing and land if not, then is it his intention to repudiate preparation at a valuation." it?" "(3) The Irrigation Commission, as indi­ Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham) cated above, was responsible for the clear­ replied- ing and costs to date are-Clearing and grubbing, £3,154; Rock raking, £2,071; "(1) I am aware of the statement made Picking up and stacking of rocks, £1,550; by the Federal Member for Herbert to the Total, £6,675." Townsville Chamber of Commerce to the effect that the State had not put a proposi­ tion to the Commonwealth in the matter QUEENSLAND EXHIBIT AT \;\/ORLD TRADE of cattle fattening in the wet tropics." FAIR, SYDNEY "(2) The statements made by the Federal Mr. BROr.1LEY (Norman): I ask the Member for Herbert are not correct and Minister for Labour and Industry question my lengthy reply, emphasising that further No. 11 standing in my name-the one about consideration of this matter awaits the out­ the "dumpty-do." come of inquiries by a Committee of Commonwealth officers, was made avail­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I doubt whether able to the various newspapers which are I should allow this question because contrary normally circulated in North Queensland. to Standing Orders it contains an expression I have made arrangements for a copy of of opinion. In view of the hon. member's that detailed reply to be made available to statement I feel that I should now disallow the Honourable Member for Townsville it. North. I explained, in effect, that we were I have already warned hon. members that pressing on with all the resources at our they must abide by the provisions regarding disposal with the proposition to open any questions in this House. Mainly bec~use of available areas in the wet tropics for cattle 48 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

fattening. Personally I have pursued the (b) the last ship under construction has matter with enthusiasm and it was on my been launched, and (c) the Menzies­ recommendation that an expert Committee McEwen Liberal-Country Party Govern­ was despatched to the North for the express ment has permitted orders for several purpose of classifying lands suitable for ships under 6,000 tons to go to overseas settlement bearing in mind the necessity to shipyards? If so, has he protested to preserve the rich timber bearing rain forests the Commonwealth Government and, if of the north. The Committee has now not, will he do so, vigorously and pub­ completed its investigations and its report licly?" is in process of preparation. I am not in a position at this stage to indicate the Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) complete result of this investigation but replied- preliminary advice gives me to understand "(1 and 2) I am extremely interested in that we will be able to make a number of the possibility of building ships in our new blocks available. I regret to have to Queensland ship yards, and I am well admit that it would appear the area avail­ aware of the capacity of them. I most able will not be as great as I had certainly have taken very active steps on hoped. The Honourable Member for the matter of our ship-building industry, an Townsville North may rest assured that example being as follows:-A group of the matter is receiving urgent atten­ people for whom a ship was being built in tion by my officers and myself. Queensland expressed to me, earlier this Commonwealth-State relationship in this year, very grave disquiet at the inordinate regard has been most encouraging. I delay being forced upon one of our anticipate being able to publicly announce Queensland shipping yards by the refusal of the extent of land available for new settle­ certain tradesmen to work overtime. It ment for cattle fattening at a reasonably must be remembered that much work on early date." shipbuilding will only permit a certain number of men to work on a particular SHORT MEAT KILLING SEASON AND operation, and therefore overtime is UNEMPLOYMENT, NORTH QUEENSLAND frequently a vital necessity. As a result of this, I made enquiries in other quarters, Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) asked and was advised that some interested the Minister for Labour and Industry- people were seriously considering refrain­ "(1) Is he aware that the meat season in ing from using any Queensland yard the North this year could be the shortest because of this long term delay. I then on record and that this allied with the wrote to the Chairman of the Australian persistent effects of the Federal Govern­ Shipping Board to obtain the full back­ ment's credit-squeeze will create greater ground of this matter. This I obtained in a unemployment than last year in Towns­ confidential letter forwarded to me, and ville?" which I am unable to submit, and every effort is being made by my Department and "(2) What steps other than the recent myself, in conjunction with our colleagues, cut in Local Authority subsidies have been to assist this industry. I must, however, taken or are to be taken to combat this add that any further grave delays of a northern scourge?" similar nature to that referred to above, Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) will finally kill this industry, as industrial replied- trouble had injured our coastal shipping industry itself." "! refer the Honourable Gentleman to the reply furnished by the Honourable the Premier to a question on Unemployment yesterday. This matter will, however, be NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES IN RAILWAY fully dealt with in debate in this Chamber DEPARTMENT next week." Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ Leader of the Opposition) asked the Minister STATE REPRESENTATIONS TO COMMON- for Transport- WEALTH GOVERNMENT FOR SHIP-BUILD­ "What were the numbers of employees ING ORDERS FOR WALKERS LTD., in each of the South-eastern, South­ MARYBOROUGH western, Central and Northern Divisions of the Railways Department as at June 30, Mr. DAVIES (Maryborough) asked the 1957, and June 30, 1961?" Minister for Labour and Industry- "(1) What representations has he or his Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) Government made during the last twelve replied- months to the Commonwealth Govern­ ment on behalf of Walkers Ltd. Shipyards, At June 30, At June 30, Maryborough, in order to secure orders Division 1957 1961 for that firm and, if any, when were they South-Eastern 14,680 13,192 made?" South-western 3,706 3,285 Central .. 6,106 5,365 "(2) Is he aware that (a) Walkers Ltd. Northern .. 6,370 6,315 Shipyards can build ships up to 6,000 tons, Questions [24 AUGUST] Questions 49

CLOSURE OF COUNTRY POLICE STATIONS DEVELOPMENT OF WEIPA BY COMALCO Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ Mr. MANN (Brisbane) asked the Minister Leader of the Opposition) asked the Minister for Development, Mines, Main Roads and for Labour and Industry- Electricity- "( I) What country police stations have "(!) What is the number of employees been closed down in the period from engaged at Weipa by Comalco other than June 30, 1960, to the current date?" those engaged in exploration or prepara­ "(2) What has become of the personnel tory work?" policing these stations?" "(2) Has any real production been "(3) Is the closure of any further stations commenced? If so, at what date?" proposed or being considered and, if so, where are they situated?" "(3) How many men have been employed since December 31, 1960?" "(4) Has there been any increase or decrease in the active strength of the Police "(4) When is it anticipated that full scale Department in the past year?" production will commence?" Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani) replied- replied- "(!) The total number now employed by "( I) Nocundra; Koombooloomba; East Comalco at Weipa, including contractors, Bundaberg, North Bundaberg, South is 139 persons." Bundaberg, Cordalba; Tinana, Granville, Newtown (Maryborough); Newtown "(2) 40,000 tons of bauxite have been (Toowoomba); West Ipswich; Archer Park mined and exported for trial purposes." and Allenstown; Ewan, Brandon, Railway "(3) Since December 31, 1960, the num­ Estate, West End (Townsville), Ravens­ ber employed at Weipa has increased by wood." 80." "(2) With the following exceptions, all "(4) Full scale production of bauxite is personnel were transferred to their District not likely until the alumina plant to be Headquarters stations as additions to erected at Weipa is nearing completion. strength. The exceptions were: Koomboo­ This alumina plant is expected to be com­ loomba-member transferred to South missioned late in 1965 or early 1966 to Johnstone as a replacement for another co-ordinate with commencement of alumin­ member transferred from South J ohnstone. ium metal production in New Zealand in Nocundra-member transferred to Goom­ mid-1966. A contract for the necessary bungee as replacement for member trans­ dredging has been let and this work is ferred from Goombungee. Brandon-mem­ proceeding." ber transferred to Ayr as an addition to strength at the Ayr Police Stations. Cordalba-member transferred to Childers APPOINTMENT OF CHAIRMEN OF HARBOUR as an addition to Childers strength." BoARDS "(3) No." Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) asked the "(4) An increase of 20." Treasurer and Minister for Housing- "(!) When the Government representa­ TOURIST BUREAU STAFF AND SALARIES tives were appointed to the various Harbour Boards in Queensland following Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ the Local Authority elections three years Leader of the Opposition) asked the Minister ago, did he specify that no such Go--:ern­ for Labour and Industry- ment nominee was to accept the posttwn "How many officers have been appointed of Chairman of the Harbour Board to to the Brisbane headquarters and interstate which he was thus appointed?" staffs of the Queensland Tourist Bureau "(2) If so, did such provision, insisted since August, 1957, how are they classified, upon by the Treasurer, have any legal specifying new classifications, and what are the respective salaries?" basis in any law or Act and, if so, which?" Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) "(3) Upon the appointment of Govern­ replied- ment representatives on Harbour Boards " Broadly speaking, this information will this year, did he again insist on such be found in the forthcoming Estimates of nominees declining the position of Chair­ my Department when they are presented man and, if not, why not?" shortly, and I cannot think that the Hon­ ourable Gentleman desires these details for Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied­ each staff member. However, the total numbers engaged as at 30th June each year "(!) Yes." 1957 to 1961 in the Queensland Govern­ "(2) It had no legal basis in law or Act ment Tourist Bureau organisation are as but it did not require it. When the Govern­ follows:-1957, 137; 1958, 136; 1959, 140; ment is given the right to appoint repre­ 1960, 157; 1961, 165." sentatives, it can, at the same time, 50 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

indicate its wishes. I want to say that my estimated receipts and expenditure, respec· concern was that Harbour Boards should tively, by each Department for the month not present any appearance of being under of June. As reported to the Treasurer, on Government direction, and I felt that it July 4, by his officers 'the improved was wiser to avoid having a Government position, compared with forecasts, is due nominee in the chair." to an improvement in receipts of £365,000 and a saving in expenditure of £284,000. "(3) With the appointments that were made this year, that restraint was relaxed. Receipts were generally more buoyant I did so for many reasons. In the first than anticipated in the June forecast by place, I had widespread representations Departments, whereas, on the other hand, from many Members of this House. I was all Departments, other than the Depart­ also fortified by expressions from the ment of Public Lands and Irrigation Harbour Boards' Association. I was assured (through heavy survey expenditure) effected that the fact that a Government nominee savings in June, as compared with their might occupy the chair would not be inter­ forecast for that month'. The advice was preted as savouring of Government direc­ accompanied by statements comparing June tion. On further considering the matter, I forecasts with the actual result. I select recommended to Cabinet that we should the major variations from such compre­ accept the many representations that had hensive statements" been made and relax the restraint on a Government representative in the chair. Increase Over Receipts Forecast Cabinet accepted my recommendation and ------1----- hence the change." £ Commonwealth ...... 23,000 Licenses and Permits (mainly due to a payment in respect of arrears of DEFICIT IC\l PUBLIC ACCOUNTS liquor fees) ...... 49,000 Land Tax . . . . 15,000 Mr. HANLON (Baroona) asked the Succession and Probate Duties .. 72,000 Miscellaneous Receipts (including an Premier- adjustment of £152,000 consequently on winding-up of the Workers' "(1) Did he tell the Loan Council on 213,000 June 14, 1961, as reported in 'The Courier­ Homes Fund) Mail' of June 15, 1961, 'It will mean in spite of all the restraint we can practice Savings, as Expenditure Compared with that our deficit for the year will approxi­ I Forecast mate £1,250,000."'" ------~---- "(2) In view of the subsequent release Department of Health and Home I £ Affairs...... 143,000 by the Treasurer of the deficit for the Department of Education . . . . 51,000 year ended June 30, 1961, as £618,243, Department of Railways . . . . 50,000 which is approximately half the figure given by the Premier to the Loan Council, "In addition, of the provision of £80,000 and the Premier's later explanation of this variation as substantial economies effected towards losses on the standard gauge rail­ in the closing weeks of the year (a) did way only £4,703 was required, resulting in the Treasurer supply him with the estimate a saving under that Vote of £75,000. I am he gave to the Loan Council or, if not, confident that the forecasts supplied by the who did (b) were the substantial economies, officers of the respective Departments were which reportedly cut in half the deficit in based on the best available information, a matter of weeks, carried out without and I feel that responsible persons will not the knowledge of the Treasurer and him­ suspect such estimates in future." self, (c) what are the details of these remarkable economies which produced a saving of over £600,000 in a matter of INCIDENCE OF TRAFFIC OFFENCES weeks over and above "all the restraint Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) asked the Minister we can practice" and (d) does he realise for Labour and Industry- that failure to adequately explain this matter will make his statements at Loan "What were (a) the amount received by Council suspect, to the disadvantage of way of fines levied in the Traffic Court, the State, and the deficit shown by the (b) the number of convictions and (c) the Treasurer suspect to Parliament and number of fatalities as a result of traffic Public?" accidents for the years 1958-1959, 1959- 1960 and 1960-1961?" Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough) replied- Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) "(1) Yes.'' replied- "(2) The estimate referred to was sup­ "(a) £139,306 18s. 8d.; £168,818 Is. 6d.; plied by the Honourable the Treasurer and £203,766 19s. 6d., respectively. (b) 16,134; accorded to advice received from his 21,094 and 27,277, respectively. (c) 333; Treasury officers, based on collation of the 359 and 353, respectively." Questions [24 AuGusT] Questions 51

SUBSIDIES PAID TO LOCAL BODIES 29 labourers; June 30, 1960, 223 trades­ men, 29 labourers; June 30, 1961, 228 !VIr. LLOYD (Kedron) asked the Treasurer tradesmen, 27 labourers." and Minister for Housing- "(1) What was the rate of subsidy paid "(3) The most recent contract prices to local bodies for (a) water supply, (b) accepted by the Commission for houses sewerage, (c) mosquito eradication and (d) were £3,123 for a timber house of 1,011 swimming pools and Harbour Boards and sq. ft. and £2,850 for a timber house of Hospital Boards at as June 30, 1957?" 1,014 sq. ft., which prices were accepted on August 17, 1961, and £3,230 for a "(2) What is the rate proposed to be timber house of 1,163 sq. ft. on August 3, paid in accordance with the announcement 1961. The Honourable Member realises made by him?" that prices for houses vary on account of "(3) What subsidies were paid to all the inclusion or omission of septic systems, local bodies for the financial years internal painting, drainage, fencing, and 1956-1957 and 1960-1961 ?" type of foundations, fixtures and fittings and roof sheeting." Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied­ "(1 and 2) I table a statement setting forth the information sought by the Hon­ LOAN MONEY FOR HouSES AND FLATS ourable Member." Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) asked the "(3) Year 1956-1957, £3,977,725; Year Treasurer and Minister for Housing- 1960-1961, £6,322,894." "Owing to the serious position that has Whereupon the hon. gentleman laid the affected the building and allied industries statement on the table. in this State, will he make extra housing loan money available immediately to the Mr. EROMI"EY (Norman) asked the Queensland Housing Commission and the Treasurer and Minister for Housing- Building Societies to catch up with the lag "What will be the total amount saved by of houses and fiats and at the same time the Government per year through its cur­ stimulate employment in these industries?" tailment of subsidies to Local Government authorities and what does the Government Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied- intend to do with this saving?" "The honourable gentleman's question presents a classic example of the sectional HGn. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied- approach to a problem. It is so easy to "It is estimated that the review of the call for expanded effort in this industry or rates of subsidies payable to Local Author­ extra allocation in that locality. What is ities will ultimately result in a saving in overlooked is that there is a limited amount the vicinity of £1 million per annum. The of loan money. To use more here or for review became necessary because these this purpose inevitably means less some­ subsidies were absorbing an ever-increasing where else on some other purpose. It is proportion of the State's Loan Raisings. the duty of the Government to hold in Any recoveries resulting from the review reasonable balance all the varied needs of the rates of subsidies will be utilised to which arise in such infinite variety over restore other essential governmental works such a huge State. I do not intend to and services to the highest possible level." anticipate the release of the Budget but I can say in general terms that the loan HOUSES CONSTRUCTED BY HOUSING money which will be available to the Com­ COMMISSION mission for 1961-1962 will be greater than that allocated in the five previous years and Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) asked the Treasurer will be approximately H million above that and Minister for Housing- which was made available in 1956-1957. "(!) How many houses were built during In addition there will be a further progres­ the year 1960-1961 (a) by day labour and sive increase in the funds made available (b) by contract under the Commonwealth­ to building societies from the Treasury State Housing Agreement?" Home Builders' Account and this year the "(2) How many day labour employees figure will be over £1 million in excess of (a) tradesmen and (b) labourers, were in 1956-1957. On top of that the level of the employ of the Queensland Housing guaranteed advances extended to co-opera­ Commission as at June 30, 1958, 1959, tive housing societies is increasing each 1960 and 1961?" year and already, with less than two months of the financial year elapsed there "(3) What is the most recent contract is £1,155,000 in sight. So it is already price accepted by the Commission for certain that last year's record figure of houses erected of 1,000 square feet and £1,850,000 will be broken. These figures 1,200 square feet respectively?" establish convincingly that the Government Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied­ has taken steps to stimulate the building industry. I am not prepared to seek a "(!) (a) 163; (b) 780." solution to the problem of the home "(2) June 30, 1958, 278 tradesmen, 37 builder at the expense of increasing unem­ labourers; June 30, 1959, 246 tradesmen, ployment in other sections of industry." 52 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

PUBLIC \VORKS TO RELIEVE UNEMPLOYMENT he may then be able to report fully the results of that trip overseas for the edifica­ Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) asked the tion of all Members of the House and the Minister for Public Works and Local people of Queensland in particular?" Government- "With reference to the unemployment Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) debate before the House in February of replied- this year when an appeal was made to "Railway Estimates are listed for discus­ the Government to bring down an sion in this Chamber later this year. It is accelerated public works programme to my intention to then deal fully with a relieve unemployment in the seasonal and report which I have already submitted to other industries in the State, will he Cabinet on my overseas observations." indicate if this important proposition has been given any consideration by his DEATH OF MRS. REITHMULLER Department?' Mr. BROMLEY (Norman) asked tlre Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset) replied- Minister for Justice- "Prior to the unemployment debate in "In view of the unfortunate and tragic the House in February of this year the death in prison of Mrs. Reithmuller, has Government had examined its financial the Government endeavoured to assist in position to ascertain if further funds could any way to secure the future of her three be made available to stimulate employment now motherless children?" in Queensland. At that time it was unable to allocate further funds for expenditure by Hon. A. W. MUNRO (Toowong) replied- the Department of Public Works. An addi­ "As the Honourable Member will be tional amount of £100,000 was, however, aware a Public Inquest has been held into allocated in June last for expenditure by the circumstances surrounding the death of the Department. The Department of Public Selma Joyce Reithmuller. The findings of Works made the fullest contribution the Coroner have been widely publicised in possible towards promotion of employment, the Brisbane Press of 9th and 10th August, by expending during the last financial year 1961. If the Honourable Member will the whole of the amount appropriated to it examine the findings he will note that the by Parliament and the additional amount findings do not cast any responsibility upon of £100,000 allocated." the Government in respect of this unfortu­ nate death. The question of whether any action may be taken to assist to secure the EMPLOYMENT OF CHILDREN LEAVINO SCHOOL future of the three children of the late Mrs. Reithmuller is not one coming within Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) asked the the scope of the administration of the Minister for Education and Migration- Justice Department. I may, however, men­ "What is the estimated number of (a) tion that, so far as I am aware, no request boys and (b) girls, wlro will be seeking has been made for assistance and in this full-time employment at the end of this connection it may be pointed out that the school year with under-Scholarship late Mrs. Reithmuller was not the bread­ standard, Scholarship standard, Junior winner of the family. I have no precise standard and Senior standard?" information as regards the financial circum­ Hon. J. C. A. PIZZEY (Isis) replied- stances of the father of the children." "No precise figures are available on the number of children who seek full-time SALE OF MACHINERY, MT. MULLIGAN, employment at the end of any year. The TINAROO AND KOOMBOOLOOMBA estimates below give an indication of the numbers who will enter employment from Mr. WALLACE (Cairns) asked the the various educational levels during the Premier- twelve month period August, 1961-July, "In relation to the disposal sales of 1962. surplus plant and machinery at Mount Boys Girls Mulligan, Tinaroo and Koombooloomba Below Grade VIII 1,800 1,200 will he advise the procedure adopted by Grade VIII 2,700 2,600 his Government in the appointment of Sub-Junior 2,100 2,300 auctioneers and whether he believes his Junior 5,600 6,200 Government has been completely fair in Senior 700 500" not making known to all tendering auction­ eers the rate of commission received by the successful tenderer?" OVERSEAS TRIP BY MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT Hon. G. F. R. NICKLil'l" (Landsborough) Mr. BROMLEY (Norman) asked the replied- Minister for Transport- "The present and past practice has been "In view of his recent trip aboard, to call tenders or quotations for the ostensibly to study railway systems over­ auctioning of Government property and seas, would he be prepared to move for equipment, the lowest satisfactory tender the suspension of Standing Orders so that or quoter being accepted. I can see no Questions (24 AUGUST] Questions 53

reason why unsuccessful tenderers may (b) For the complete construction of not be informed of the rate of Commission the line including supply of pipes, the of the successful tenderer. I should like to following tenders were received:-Davis add that representatives of the Real Estate Construction Ltd., £258,405; T. J. Institute of Queensland saw me this year Watkins Pty. Ltd., £183,490. with a view to the State adopting an agreed The lowest tender of T. J. Watkins scale of Commission rates in the disposal Pty. Ltd. was considerably above the of Government property and equipment. Commission's estimate for construction The Commonwealth Government, I am by day labour, and the following action informed, operates under such an arrange­ was taken. A contract was let to Humes ment. The Institute's proposal seemed to Limited of Townsville for supply of the me, on the surface, to have quite a deal of steel concrete lined pipes, their tender merit and that body's representations are being slightly the lower after allowing at present receiving the consideration of for cartage to the site from Mareeba. the Government." Negotiations were entered into with the lowest tenderer, T. J. Watkins, for the BUILDING OF EAST BARRON MAIN CHANNEL, balance of the work involved in the TINAROO IRRIGATION PROJECT construction of the pipeline. After pro­ tracted negotiations in which various Mr. W ALLACE (Cairns) asked the Minis­ alternative arrangements were examined ter for Public Lands and Irrigation- and a decision taken for certain sections "(1) Have tenders been called for the of the steel pipe line to be constructed building of the East Barren Main Channel by day labour, T. J. Watkins Pty. Ltd. of the Tinaroo irrigation project? If so, have submitted a tender for £79,000 for how many tenders were received?" the balance of the work in the 1 t miles of steel concrete lined pipeline. "(2) Was the successful tender the lowest?" "(3) When this tender is added to the "(3) Did the Irrigation Department sub­ cost of supply of pipes and the estimated mit a tender? If so, how did the Depart­ cost of sections of work to be carried out ment's tender compare with the successful by the Commission the total price is tender?" comparable with the Commission's estimates carrying out the work by day Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham) labour. replied- (c) Three and a-half miles of earth "(1 to 3) The East Barren Main Channel channel:-It is not expected that construc­ will have a total length of approximately tion will commence on this section during 11 miles consisting of-(a) six miles of the current financial year. Arrangements reinforced concrete pipeline; (b) one and for the construction of this section will be a-half miles of steel concrete lined pipe­ decided at a later date." line; (c) three and a-half miles of earth channel. The individual sections are dealt PETROL TAX with separately in regard to questions (1), (2), and (3). Mr. BENNETT (South Brisbane) asked the (a) Reinforced concrete pipeline- Treasurer and Minister for Housing- (1) Tenders were called for supply "(1) What was the total sum collected of pipes for this work and the following by way of petrol tax from Queensland by tenders (adjusted to Free on Rails the Commonwealth Government for the Walkamin) were received:-Rocla financial year ending June 30, 1961 ?" Limited (ex Mareeba factory), £122,922; "(2) Of this amount how much has been Humes Limited (ex Townsville), refunded to the Queensland Government £131,059. to be spent in Queensland?" (2) The contract for this work was "(3) Does he consider this refund to be let to Rocla Limited, the lowest tenderer, a fair and just proportion of the tax the Commission having no facilities for collected? If not, what action does he pipe manufacture. intend to take to insist on and demand (3) Construction of the six miles of a fair allocation for this State?" line is being carried out by day labour. "(4) Of the total amount of petrol tax (b) One and a-half miles steel concrete reimbursement granted to this State, how lined pipe- much is handed on for road construction to Local Authorities who are responsible (1) Alternative tenders were called for the upkeep of roadways?" for this work on the basis of-(a) Supply of pipes only; (b) Supply of pipes and Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied- construction of the complete pipeline. "(1) I am unable to obtain a figure for (2) (a) Tenders for supply of pipes the year ended June 30, 1961. Enquiries were received from the following:­ disclose that Customs and Excise Duty Humes Limited (Townsville) f.o.r. collected in 1959-1960, including certain Mareeba, £58,302; T. J. Watkins Pty. aviation spirit and solvents, was Ltd., £60,958 (on site). £8,224,5 51." 54 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

"(2) Commonwealth Aid Roads Grants circumstances, where such action is not are no longer related to Petrol Tax. necessary, State Governmental appoint­ Following a special conference on roads ments are made expeditiously." convened by the Commonwealth in Febru­ ary, 1959, and attended by representatives "(3) No." of private organisations, Local Government bodies, and the Commonwealth and State GRADING OF MBT Governments, the Commonwealth proposed a new Scheme for a period of five years Mr. SHERRINGTON (Salisbury) asked from July 1, 1959. Over the five-year the Minister for Agriculture and Forestry- period a total sum of £250 million is being "In view of the relaxation of price made available by the Commonwealth to control in connection with the sale of meat, the States for roads. Of this amount, £220 has the Government given any considera­ million represents basic grants and the tion to the re-introduction of grading to remaining sum of up to £30 million is, ensure that consumers receive meat of a subject to certain annual limits, payable to quality commensurate with prices paid?" the States on the basis of £ for each £ allocated by the State Governments from Hon. 0. 0. MADSEN (Warwick) replied- their own resources for expenditure on "The Government has considered the roads over and above the amounts allocated matter and the Department of Agriculture by them for roads expenditure in 1958- and Stock has been conducting an experi­ 1959. The amount received by Queensland mental voluntary scheme at Cannon Hill in 1960-1961 was £8,427,577." abattoir whereby all operators desiring to "(3) I draw the Honourable Member's have their beef identified as "prime," attention to the fact that the Common­ submit such to classifying and marking with wealth proposals have been adopted and a ribbon roller brand. The letters "PRIME" operate until June 30, 1964." are applied to oxen and heifers meeting "(4) The amount allocated to Local the desired standard of prime beef. The Authorities from the Commonwealth Aid letters "PRIME" and "YLING", on alter­ Roads Grant in 1960-1961 was £1,828,500. nate plates, are applied to yearlings meet­ In addition, an amount of £475,575 was ing the desired standard of prime yearling paid to Local Authorities in 1960-1961 beef. An increasing number of operators, from Road Maintenance collections by the including the majority of the large whole­ State." salers, are now availing themselves of this scheme. For the month of July, out of the total domestic kill of 7,407 cattle at Cannon AGENT-GENERAL'S REPORT ON PROFES­ Hill, the greater percentage of carcasses SIONAL AND TECHNICAL MEN was submitted to classification. In addition to prime marking of beef, all yearling beef Mr. BENNETT (South Brisbane) asked the (irrespective of whether prime or not), Premier- lambs and hoggetts are classified as such "(!) Has he read the Agent-General's and marked with ribbon brands bearing the Report tabled yesterday complaining about letters "YLING", "LAMB" and "H-GET" delays and procrastination in the appoint­ respectively. This allows the consumers to ment of valuable professional and techni­ select meat from young animals which is cal men essential to the State's needs?" usually of high quality." "(2) If so, what has he done to correct this inexcusable inertia of his Govern­ BONUS PAYMENTS ment?" Mr. TUCKER (Townsvi!le North) asked "(3) Is it true that these pos1t10ns are the Minister for Labour and Industry- being kept for broken-down political hacks, "In view of his statement on bonus who although obsequious to this Govern­ payments to this House as recorded in ment are an embarrassment to Queensland 'Hansard' of March 21, 1961, page 2898, in the carrying out of their duties, as was wherein he said 'I have every reason to the case recently with Mr. Morris' Indus­ believe-indeed I know-that employers trial Liaison Officer in relation to the will be encouraged to negotiate such inglorious exhibition of ineptitude dis­ arrangements on the passing of this played at Sydney's industrial fair?" measure,' does not the present industrial trouble at Mount Isa regarding bonus pay­ Hon. G. F. R. NICKUN (Landsborough) ments prove that his belief was based on replied- false premises?" "(I and 2) The section of the Report concerned deals with services rendered to a Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) variety of employing authorities (including replied- non-Governmental ones), and could refer " Most certainly I do not. Does the to one or two instances in which compari­ Honourable Member not know that there sons of qualifications and experience of are to be at Mt. Isa further discussions on persons overseas and those of Australian this matter with the A.W.U. in the near applicants had to be made. In the future." Questions [24 AUGUST] Questions 55

CONNECTION OF BELGIAN GARDENS STATE policy and that of many Railway employees SCHOOL TO SEWERAGE SYSTEM of endeavouring to provide a little beauti­ fication to the surroundings of Railway Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) asked premises." the Minister for Education and Migration- "Will he advise when it is intended to connect the Belgian Gardens State School LOTTERY CoNDUCTED BY MACKAY A.L.P. to the existing sewerage system?" Hon. P. J. R. HILTON (Carnarvon) asked Hon. J. C. A. PIZZEY (Isis) replied- the Minister for Justice- "It is not proposed to connect the "(1) Apropos of the allegation regarding Belgian Gardens School to the sewerage illegal lotteries being conducted in system before the completion of new toilet Mackay, made in this House by the accommodation, plans for which have been Honourable Member for Mackay in his prepared and are now being considered in notice of question yesterday, has his atten­ the Department of Public Works." tion been drawn to the illegal lottery which I am reliably informed, is conducted regularly by the Mackay Branch of the INCIDENCE OF LUNG CANCER A.L.P. wherein each ticket buyer is issued iVIr. iVIELLOY (Nudgee) asked the Minister a ticket with two figures printed thereon for Health and Home Affairs- and, if these figures correspond with the "In view of the statement by the Direc­ last two figures of the winning ticket of tor of the Queensland Radium Institute, a designated Golden Casket Art Union, the Dr. Cooper, calling for a big increase in holder of the lottery ticket receives a research into the production of safer cigar­ monetary prize?" ettes and his statement that lung cancer "(2) Will he have this matter fully cases had shown an increase from 20 investigated?' cases per year to 250 cases per year over the past 20 years, will he make provision Hon. A. W. MUNRO (Toowong) replied- for increased assistance for research into "(1) My attention has not been drawn the incidence of lung cancer?" to this matter other than by this question Hon. H. W. NOBLE (Yeronga) replied- and by the Honourable Member's notice yesterday of his intention to ask the 'The Honourable Member will no doubt question." have read in The Courier-Mail' of July 21, of the formation of a committee to "(2) This matter will be investigated in launch an appeal for £500,000, one object a manner similar to the case brought under of which is to establish a special cancer my notice by the Honourable Member for research centre in Queensland. The inaug­ Mackay. Both Honourable Members may ural meeting of the Queensland Cancer be assured that, if, after investigation, any Campaign will be held on Friday and I further action is found to be called for, have every confidence the target will be then action appropriate to the case will be reached." taken."

GARDENS AKD LAWNS AT BANYO RAILWAY SEALING OF MULLIGAN HIGHWAY, BIBOOHRA 'WORKSHOPS TO MT. CARBINE Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) asked the Minis­ Mr. ADAIR (Cook) asked the Minister for ter for Transport- Development, Mines, Main Roads and "What was the cost of recently con­ Electricity- structed gardens and lawns adjacent to the signals and telegraph section at Banyo "Owing to the bad ,condition of the Railway Workshops?" Mulligan Highway between Biboohra and Mount Carbine which is causing consider­ Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockycr) able inconvenience to the heavy motor replied- traffic using this road, including Pioneer "Banyo is the home depot of many Tour buses and motor transport used by tradesmen and labourers attached to the the Mary River tobacco farmers, will he Signal and Telegraph Engineers Section of the Queensland Railways and I personally, have a responsible officer of the Main and the Department generally, appreciate Roads Department inspect this section with the interest shown and the work performed a view to having this section sealed with by many such employees in assisting in bitumen at an early date?" the making of the gardens and lawns Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani) replied- referred to. There has been no interference with the general working of the section in "The problem is already under study consequence. The approximate cost to the with a view to making necessary improve­ Department is £200. It is to be regretted ments when the priority of the work makes that apparently the Honourable Member it possible to set aside the finance required does not subscribe to the Department's for the work." 56 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

TRANSPORT OF CATTLE BY CLAUSONS areas which cannot obtain an assured water SHIPPING COMPANY supply from streams supplemented by releases from Tinaroo Falls Dam. If the Mr. ADAIR (Cook) asked the Minister for petitioners are now willing to meet the Labour and Industry- cost of the work, which is estimated to be "(1) Will he inform the House if there £140,000, the matter would be re-consid­ is any truth in the reports circulating ered and it is suggested the matter be again amongst graziers in Cape York Peninsula taken up with the Irrigation and Water that the Government, assisted by the Com­ Supply Commission by the farmers indicat­ monwealth Government by way of subsidy, ing their proposals regarding provision of has entered into a contract with Clausons finance." Shipping Company for the transport of cattle from the Northern Territory, Gulf and Cape York Peninsula areas?" REFUSAL OF EMPLOYMENT TO COLLINSVILLE MINE WORKERS AT STYX COAL MINE "(2) If the answer is 'yes,' will he advise when Clausons Shipping Company will Mr. DONALD (Ipswich East) asked the commence operation and also the amount Minister for Development, Mines, Main of subsidy to be paid and term of Roads and Electricity- contract?" "Is it a fact that five unemployed mine­ workers from Collinsville were refused Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) employment at the State Mine at Styx replied- where there were three vacancies? If so, "(1 and 2) The State Government is what was the reason?" negotiating with the Commonwealth Gov­ ernment with reference to this matter. The Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani) replied- negotiations have not yet been finalised and "The unemployed mineworkers were consequently details of the proposals cannot known to the Management and none of be supplied at this stage." them was suitable for the existing vacancies." EXTENSION OF WATER CHANNELLING TO AERODROME TOBACCO AREA, TINAROO ALBERT STATE SCHOOL, MARYBOROUGH Mr. ADAIR (Cook) asked the Minister for Mr. DAVIES (Maryborough) asked the Public Lands and Irrigation- Minister for Education and Migration- "(1) Is he aware that in what is known as the Aerodrome tobacco area within the "Will he give so!T\e indication as to Tinaroo water scheme thirty-one tobacco when he expects resumption of two growers have petitioned for the extension additions to the playing area of the Albert of the channelling to enable their State School, Maryborough, to be properties to be irrigated?" finalised?" "(2) As the original proposal to extend Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth­ the channelling appears to have been Treasurer and Minister for Housing), for postponed indefinitely and as the tobacco Hon. J. C. A. PIZZEY (Isis), replied- growers in the Aerodrome area are pre­ "Two areas for the enlargement of the pared to find the necessary finance them­ Albert State School site by 1 acre 0 roods selves, will he direct the Irrigation Com­ 15.82 perches were taken by the Crown on mission to proceed immediately with the June 18, 1960, and notice to this effect work so as to enable the tobacco growers appeared in the Government Gazette to substantially reduce their cost of pro­ (pages 1122 and 1123). The Department of duction and provide additional employ­ Public Works has been requested to sell ment in the district? for removal the improvements on one of Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham) these areas." replied- "(1) Yes." SHARK PROOF ENCLOSURE AT SHORNCLIFFE "(2) Two petitions have been received Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) asked the Treasurer regarding extension of channelling to the and Minister for Housing- Aerodrome area, but no indication was given in these petitions that the tobacco "(1} Is the foreshore of the Sandgate growers were prepared to find the necessary bayside resort which is within the Greater finance for the work. The farms in this Brisbane Area under the control of the area are already obtaining water supply by Department of Harbours and Marine or private pumping from the Barron River and the Brisbane City Council?" the petitioners were advised that the exten­ "(2) Will it be the responsibility of sion of the Mareeba Main Channel to serve the State Government to construct the their area could not be undertaken at the proposed shark-proof enclosure at Shorn­ present time, and that the position would be cliffe? If not, is it the intention of the re-examined when irrigation supply for full Government to pay a subsidy to the Bris­ development of farms has been extended to bane City Council for this purpose?" Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 57

Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied­ COMMITTEE "(!) Brisbane City Council." (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, "(2) The matter is one for the Council. Clayfield, in the chair.) If the Council submits a proposal on the matter, its eligibility for subsidy will be Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth­ determined." Treasurer and Minister for Housing) (12.23 p.m.): I move-- REVENUE RECENED UNDER ROADS (CON­ "That there be granted to Her Majesty, TRIBUTION TO MAINTENANCE) ACTS on account for the service of the year 1961-1962, 'a further sum not exceeding Mr. ANDERSON (Toowoomba East) £56 000 000 towards defraying the expenses asked the Minister for Transport- of 'the 'various departments and services "How much revenue was received under of the State." the Roads (Contribution to Maintenance) Acts for the years 1957-1958, 1958-1959, As hon. members are aware, the final 1959-1960 and 1960-1961, from border­ Appropriation Act for 1960-1961 also hopper operators?" included a Vote on account for 1961-1962. This Vote on account was designed to enable Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) replied- the Government to carry on from 1 July, "Statistics under 'The Roads ( Contribu­ 1961, until the end of this month pending tion to Maintenance) Acts' are prepared the meeting of Parliament and the granting from the information shown in the returns of further Supply. The Supply granted was of journeys furnished by transport operators as follows:- £ and the classification of revenue under the Consolidated Revenue Fund 18,000,000 headings of General Carriers, Inter-city Trust and Special Funds 13,000,000 Carriers, Inter-state Carriers, etc., is com­ Loan Fund Account 4,000,000 piled from this source. I am informed that there is not one transport operator who, in It is now necessary, in accordance with the the returns received, has described himself adopted procedure, to appropriate further as a 'Border Hopper' and, therefore, a moneys to cover expenditure on State services revenue classification under such heading until the passing of the Estimates and the cannot be taken out. The reluctance of final Appropriation Bill for 1961-1962. persons engaged in this class of operation Approval is accordingly sought in the Bill to formally accept the tag of 'Border for a further £56,000,000, made up as Hopper' makes it unlikely that this class of follows:- £ revenue will ever be segregated." Consolidated Revenue Fund 26,000,000 PAPERS Trust and Special Funds 20,000,000 Loan Fund Account 10,000,000 The following papers were laid on the Thus, the total amount made available in table, and ordered to be printed:- respect of 1961-1962 up to the stage when Report of the Auditor-General under the Parliament will be asked to carry the final Supreme Court Funds Acts, 1895 to Appropriation Bill, probably in late Novem- 1958 for the year 1960-1961. ber, will be- £ Report of the Chief Inspector of Explosives Consolidated Revenue Fund 44,000,000 for the year 1960-1961. Trust and Special Funds 33,000,000 The following paper was laid on the Loan Fund Account 14,000,000 table:- The aggregate is £91,000,000 compared with Seventy-sixth Annual Report and Balance a total of £85,000,000 granted for the corres­ Sheet of the Union Trustee Company ponding period in 1960-61. The increase is of Australia Limited. due to increased costs that are likely to be incurred by the Government through higher SUPPLY salaries and wages, increased prices, expanded VOTE OF CREDIT-£56,000,000 services and the increased tempo of expendi­ ture on the rehabilitation of the Mt. Isa rail­ MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR way. Mr. SPEAKER read a message from His The increases were allocated as follows:­ Excellency the Governor recommending that £ the following provision be made on account Consolidated Revenue Fund 3,000,000 of the services for the year ending 30 June, Trust and Special Funds 3,000,000 1962- This is the first of three traditional oppor­ "From the Consolidated Revenue Fund tunities presented to Parliament to exercise of Queensland (exclusive of the moneys a direct control over the Government through standing to the credit of the Loan Fund the finances of the State. First we have Account) the sum of £26,000,000; this Supply Bill, which is presented tradi­ "From the Trust and Special Funds the tionally almost immediately on the resump­ sum of £20,000,000; and tion of Parliament. Then we have the Budget "From the moneys standing to the credit debate, followed by the third testing oppor­ of the Loan Fund Account the sum of tunity in which detailed estimates are sub­ £10,000,000." mitted, culminating in an Appropriation Bill. 58 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

The attitude of the Government is to welcome taken, the problems posed by it and each of these opportunities, and to consider the changes the Government have made. them as a perfectly proper opportunity for Looking back on it, I find that the history Parliament to review and for the Govern­ of the State subsidy scheme, as we under­ ment to explain, and defend, any of their stand it today, shows that it has its roots financial policies. back in the days of the depression when The pattern of accounting has changed a it was devised as a special encouragement little and has become more orderly as years to the provision of employment in times of have gone by. Some of this improvement economic difficulty. But, through the years, occurred when I was in Opposition. Older it completely changed its character. Here hon. members will remember the treatment was no emergency tap to be turned on or of Estimates in the old days, when no limit off as the economy demanded-rather the was placed on the time that could be con­ subsidy scheme developed like a steadily sumed in discussing a particular department, flowing stream affording help on a nearly and there are instances on record when day standard basis to the largest and to the after weary day was spent in harrowing the smallest, to the nearest and to the most affairs of one department, with the inevitable distant, and to the wealthiest and to the result that no attention at all was possible poorest authority alike. to other important departments. In those Under that new approach, what had com­ days there was no settled roster so that the menced as a trifling and irregular charge, affairs of all departments would come up at swelled to a really impressive level. Here least at biennial intervals. Because of lack I should like to quote to the Committee of notice of what was coming up, the path the trend of figures for the last 10 years. was not facilitated to the extent it now is. My Government continue to extend the In 1951-1952 the payment for subsidies improvements that took place in the closing was £2,372,095. It rose for the next two years of the administration of our prede­ years. The amount for 1952-1953 was cessors. We have maintained the time limit £3,066,157, and for 1953-1954 it was on the discussion of the Estimates and we £3,779,156. The payment eased a little for have followed a rhythmical roster in terms 1954-1955 when it totalled £3,589,404, but of which half the departments are dealt with then it rose again for 1955-1956 to in one year, and the excluded half, in the £3,601,082. The next year, which was the following year. final year in office of our predecessors, it I have the Premier's permission and autho­ rose to £3,977,725. Since then it has really rity to inform the Committee that the Esti­ galloped. mates that will come up, probably in the Mr. Hilton: The inflationary trend has order in which I state them, will be- helped that a great deal. Works and Local Government Justice Mr. HILEY: Plus the fact that we raised Railways the money and hon. members opposite never Labour and Industry did. Education Mr. Lloyd: Can you give us those figures Finally, for a limited time only, the Estimates as a percentage of the total loan borrowings? , of Agriculture and Stock and Forestry will be considered. Mr. HILEY: That is what I am going to do. That is even more convincing than the That is the probable order, although I amounts. cannot predict with absolute certainty that some spasm of ministerial difficulty or the In our first year in office the subsidies fact that a Minister has to be in a certain totalled £4,488,242. The next year the figure place at a certain time will not alter the was up about £500,000, to £4,952,950. For position. 1959-1960 it rose again to £5,554,607, and last year it swelled to the colossal sum of Mr. Duggan: You are not envisaging a £6,322,894. Hon. members will see from change in the personnel of the Ministry? those figures that over the 10-year period Mr. HILEY: No merely that a man can­ there was a slight downward trend in 1954- not be in two p!a'ces at once. Something 1955, but there was a steady and progressive may happen in terms of which the Minister lift otherwise, accelerating over recent years. o!l the. day ~m which he should present I now wish to draw the attention of the h1s Estimates 1s required elsewhere. Unless Committee to the point raised by the Deputy something like that happens the list I have Leader of the Opposition. In the first year. given is the order in which they will be 1951-1952, the subsidies paid, represented dealt with. 10.54 per cent. of the State Loan programme. I take this opportunity of saying some­ After that the percentage figures jumped thing on the very important question of rapidly to 16.55, 20.48, 19.97, 18.95-the subsidies. It is obvious from questions that last two figures being for years in which it have already come from the Opposition that eased back a little-and then it rose again this is a very lively subject in the minds of to 20.66, 22.44, 23.31, 24.42, and in the hon. members opposite, and I think hon. latest year the subsidies swallowed no less members are entitled to a brief history of than 25.81 per cent. of the total loan the subsidy movement, the trend it has resources of the State. In other words, what Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 59 started 10 years ago swallowing 10 per cent. developing industry and production and surg­ of our loan resources swelled to the stage ing land values, and, in spite of some local where it was swallowing over a quarter of and seasonal contradictions, they were our total loan resources. generally years of very high employment, and in some cases over-employment. In Mr. Houston: Were you passing any more spite of that, the subsidy scheme continued work over to local authorities to carry out with only minor reductions in rates through on behalf of the State? that whole 10-year period with the result Mr. HILEY: I should not think so. I that the subsidy requirement jumped from should think the traditional pattern of local just under £2,500,000 in the first year to authority responsibility over that period con­ almost £6t million in the last year. What tinued unchanged. The Main Roads Depart­ had been bred as a depression minnow had ment played its traditional part, with the grown during the boom period and proved smaller and access service roads being to be a gigantic whale. In the last year it Council responsibility. I do not think there had the effect of over-shooting all our budget was any important change on roads. predictions. When the Estimates are pre­ sented hon. members will find that our loan­ Mr. Hilton: Would harbour boards and and-subsidy Vote was exceeded by almost State electricity boards have received a £700,000, which meant that we had to hold greater proportion of subsidy in recent years? back in various directions of loan activity Mr. HILEY: No. If anything, they would because all this extra money was being have received less, because I remind the swallowed in subsidies. hon. member that three years ago we took Mr. Burrows: Did not that come about in harbour boards out of subsidy. They part from the desire of local authorities to obviously took relatively less. They went spend the moneys rn order to relieve right out, and steps were taken to taper unemployment? back on electricity subsidies the first year we were in office and there has been further Mr. Hl!LlEY: That would certainly be a tapering since. factor, but the biggest factor-and this is where the real reward of the State lay­ So I would say that the great move has was· that the local authorities gained a been that the local authorities have taken grander concept of what they could do in rich advantage of the high subsidy rates development in their areas. Those 10 years offered for sewerage and water. There has were 10 of the finest years for public develop­ been a movement over the pattern of local ment that we have ever known. Go round to authority spending away from the smaller any local authority area in the State and subsidy items, the general works rate and the you can find magnificent works that were 10 per cent. and the 12t per cent. They have carried out. As long as we could keep swung much more of their programme over with it, we wanted to do so. It was not until into the water supply and the sewerage field the pace got harder than we could afford where the rates of subsidy were very high. that we felt we had to ease off the rate­ That is evidenced by the fact that in 1951- not stop subsidies but ease off the rate. We 1952 the subsidies paid represented 20.39 helped to forge this rod for our own backs. per cent. of the local bodies' debenture loan When I took office I found that local programme. In effect the average subsidy authorities, broadly, were not raising their paid was 20.39 per cent. approved debenture loan allocations. The Again, ever since then there has been a result was that for many councils the sub­ steady rise in costs. The percentage of sub­ sidy rate was completely illusory. It is true sidies to the local bodies debenture loan that the high rate of subsidy was technically programme stayed in the twenties for the available. But what is the good of a high first three years-that is to say, 20.39, 20.93 rate of subsidy if you cannot raise the and 20.87-and in the fourth year went up money and cannot draw the subsidy? When to 22.27, then 27.41, 25.53, 24.13, 24.31, it forfeited its allocation because it could 25.68, and last year 28.94 per cent. In not raise the money, it lost the subsidy. other words, there has been a changeover in Mr. Milton: Many councils did raise their the pattern of local authority spending. The full allocations. local authorities have been getting away from the low-subsidy items and choosing to put J\1r. HILEY: They did, and they received much more money into the high-subsidy their subsidy. It is a matter of history that items, thereby pushing up the demand and the position has changed. I remind hon. taking a much bigger share of the State's members that in 1951-1952 the percentage of loan programme. That, I think, gives hon. approved debenture borrowing programme members a picture of the historical trend that was raised by all local bodies was 61.8 over the period. per cent. Nearly 40 per cent. of the money I remind the Committee that the 10-year made available by the Loan Council went period I quoted was a period of very down the drain and was lost. The next year good years for Australia. Perhaps they were it improved to 68.9 per cent. not all so good as the peak of the wool boom Mr. Hilton: They did not actually make on which the decade opened but, broadly the money available. They authorised the speaking, the period covered years of raising of it. 60 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. HILEY: That is right. to the Treasurers of some of the other States that are not raising their full allocations, and Mr. Burrows: They still gave them the that is why I am not going to tell the job of raising the money. hon. member. Mr. HILEY: They do now. There has We have directed all possible assistance been no change in that. The ratios in the to the programme from sources where we years following were- Per cent. have an influence. In the year that has just 1953-1954 74.3 ended the total amount of the debenture 1954-1955 84.1 programme was £21,847,000. The State 1955-1956 80.1 Government Insurance Office, which has been In 1956-1957 they improved to almost 100 a magnificent supporter of the fund right per cent., reaching 99.7 per cent., and it is through the period, was able to help with also a matter of history that for the last over £3,500,000, and support also came from four years we have raised 100 per cent. the Pensions Tribunal, £170,000, the Police By raising the full amount we helped to Superannuation Board, £284,000, the Public make a bigger rod for our own backs, because Service Superannuation Additional Benefits when the councils raised 100 per cent. we !Fund, £472,000, the Public Curator, had to live with them and march with them £385,000, Native Affairs, £14,700, the Sick­ on their rates of subsidy. ness. Medical and Funeral Benefits Fund, £50,500, and the State Electricity Commis­ Mr. Hilton: It is a good thing you did, sion Debt Redemption Fund, £252,000. In too, because that shows progress in the local addition I was able to contribute £864,000 authority areas. from what we describe as Treasury floating Mr. HILEY: That is one of the things that cash, that is, the hard core of general Trust has to be taken into account. Fund balances available at the Treasury. Thus we helped or influenced directly from Mr. Hilton: Would you mind telling us State sources to the extent of no less than again the percentage that was raised in 1956- £6,063,030, equal to 28 per cent of the 1957? total programme. I have no hesitation in Mr. HILEY: 99.7 per cent. Only .3 per saying that unless we had so handled the cent. was not raised. In the early years, affairs and the investments of the Treasury when the main pattern was established, the to give help in that majestic order I doubt average not raised was 20 per cent. Had whether the full programme would have been that pattern continued, we should not have raised. The hard facts are that last year had to pay so much in subsidies. It is we found the first half of the year very perfectly obvious that you can keep the high abundant for loan raising, indeed, there was rate if it is effective on only four-fifths of every indication up to Christmas that we the money, one-fifth being lost because it would meet the target without effort, but cannot be used. But when, year after year, from December on the financial times were 100 per cent. of an ever-increasing amount entirely different. I explained it to the was raised, the whip was really on our own Premier the other day in language I know backs. I make no apology for that, because he understood. I said, "Mr. Premier, from we were determined to see that none of the January on when it came to money raising local authorities lost any of these precious we had to bat on a sticky wicket." It was an loan raisings. I wanted the development entirely different proposition then. It was to be brought about, and I did not want to hard going. run the slightest risk that we would lose any of our precious coupons round the Loan Mr. Sherrington: Bob Menzies was bowling. Council table. If we had gone to a meeting Mr. HILEY: That may be, but I am telling of the Loan Council, the Commonwealth hon. members that it would not have been Government would have been able to say to possible for a 100 per cent. performance us, "What is the good of asking for extra money? You could not raise what we gave last year had we not organised it that way. you last year." If one looks at the records, Mr. Coburn: The important fact is that it one sees that that taunt was frequently raised, was raised. and I was determined that whatever hap­ pened, we would raise 1 oo' per cent. Mr. HILEY: Yes, it was raised. At a later stage I shall tell hon. members how I Mr. Burrows: It relieved the employment feel about the prospects for this year. position to some extent, because councils were able to provide work for the unem­ I was forced to tell the Government that ployed. the cost of subsidies had climbed to a point beyond what we could afford and that the Mr. HILEY: I think one can go round local authorities were taking such a share of the State and see plenty of the benefits of it. our total loan resources that they were holding Mr. Hilton: Can you tell us the modus back and stopping that which was tradition­ operandi of the local authorities when they ally the responsibility of the State's Loan were able to raise the full 100 per cent.? fFunds. I told them that if we were to keep a balance in things we would have to ease Mr. HILEY: I cannot tell the hon. mem­ back the rates of subsidy to permit more ber all of it. It would be very interesting money to be spent on irrigation, forestry, Supply [24 AuausT] Supply 61 school buildings, university development and to the Commonwealth Aid, Local Authority expenditure of 1:hat nature, which is the Roads, Fund to the local authorities and to traditional responsibility of the State through dispensing with subsidies altogether? its loan programme. I told the Government that in my judgment the corrective measure Mr. HILEY: No, I do not think so. that should be taken should not be to Mr. Coburn: You would know better where attempt to cut down the borrowing pro­ gramme but rather we should reduce the you stood and so would they. rates of subsidy, and command our perform­ Mr. HILEY: That may be. It is very easy ance in that way. to say that but I think it would be extremely unpalatable to the town of Ayr which has The Local Government Association gave hung back on water supply and sewerage deep consideration to this matter. I received and is now about to face up to them. One a deputation from the president of that cannot, in a State as large as Queensland, association, Mr. Behan, at which they pre­ simultaneously supply water and sewerage to sented a resolution carried by the association every town. On the proposal the hon. mem­ asking the Government to preserve the old ber puts up I venture to say that the Council rates of subsidies but to cut the programme. of the Ayr' shire would cut his throat. On They all recognised the justice of our con­ that argument, the hon. member from the tention that subsidies were taking more than South Coast has his water supply and has we could afford and a bigger share of our had his subsidy and he will get the same resources than we could justify. But they relative allocation, after' getting a water said, "Mr Treasurer, will not the Government supply, as would Ayr which has to get it. overcome this problem which we fairly recog­ nise by cutting down on the programme Mr. Cobum: They would still be better off but leaving the rates of subsidy where they if you are going to do away with subsidies are?" I had to say, "I do not think you altogether. Then they will get nothing. realise what you are asking us to do. You are asking us in a time when there is a Mr. HILEY: I will say something about bad spasm of unemployment, when you are the future of subsidies. I said it at the local still crying for plenty of developmental authorities conference and I will say it again. First of all, no Government in Queensland works to be carried out, to put a brake has been able to pay subsidies out of current on Queensland's development, and to provide revenue. They have had to be paid from less employment. We do not think that loans. That means that the cost to the is the wise course." After I had explained State is not merely the subsidy cheque one it to them they said to me, "Look, you have writes at the time· it is for the subsidy cheque convinced us. We represent numerous plus interest for' the period during which bodies. Will you come and place these facts that loan is being redeemed. before the conference in August?" Con­ sequently I had to repeat the whole per­ Mr. Burrows: You are living on borrowed formance before a Local Government con­ money. ference held in the Albert Hall earlier this month. If I can judge, not by the recep­ Mr. HILEY: That is right. tion I got but by the farewell, I think I An Opposition Member: Do not forget you can safely say that the general body of local authority people are convinced that are keeping people employed also. the Government's action in all the circum­ Mr. HILEY: That is true. Things have stances, was the wise course to follow. happened to interest rates that have been Mr. Duggan: You had better watch out extremely unpalatable to me, and extremely inconvenient. In 1951-1952 the average or some of the vending-machine companies interest rate was £2 9s. 7 d. per cent. It will be asking you to sell their machines. has gone up steadily ever since. It went to £3 18s. 3d., to £3 19s. 5d., and in 1955- Mr. HILEY: I am a bit fussy what I 1956 to £4 Os. Id. per cent. By 1960-1961 sell! If hon. members remember, in this it was up to £4 18s. 6d. per cent. and at House I was openly critical of vending the moment it will be running, on the aver­ machines long before the first of them failed. age cost to the State, at somewhere between Mr. Lloyd: That shows what a good sales­ £5 Ss. Od. and 5t per cent. man you are. Mr. Houston: What did it start at? Mr. HILEY: No, I was sound in my judg­ Mr. HILEY: £2 9s. 7d. Some of the sub­ ment. If I had had my way most of them sidies paid in 1952 were paid ol!t o~ loa~s would have been shut down 12 months that have come up for conversiOn :n this earlier. year so that we have already an mterest Mr. Walsh: I think many delegates went burden of £2 9s. 7d. and when that loan away from the Local Government Confer­ comes up for conversion now it has to be ence with the impression that you were going converted at perhaps £5 Ss. 6d .. Not only to cut subsidies out. are we paying this high rate of mterest on our current borrowing but each loan that Mr. Coburn: Have you given consideration comes up for conversion has to be renewed to giving a specified annual grant similar at current market rates. In effect, we are 62 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply being shot, so far as interest rates are con­ I went on to tell the conference- cerned, by both barrels-the barrel of present "There are two accounts on which the requirements and repeatedly by the barrel of present subsidy scheme could, over the renewal of earlier loans. The result is that next ten years, wither or even totally • the drain on the State's consolidated revenue perish. The first is the effect of high fund, in interest and debt charges, has in this interest rates and, if they persist, then period of high interest, risen considerably and I warn you quite plainly, that the State that is another factor that drove us to reduc­ will be compelled to proportionately reduce ing the amount. its acceptance of new subsidy obligations I had certain things to say at the local so that the drain of the related interest authority conference that are important on its revenues will not become excessive." enough to repeat here. I said that the I went on to say that if high interest rates question naturally arose whether the subsidy continue for any length of time they will scheme should be continued or whether it cause a further tapering in the rate of should revert to its orignal concept of subsidy. emergency aid to be turned on in periods The second great peril I see rs m the field of difficulty and turned off when conditions of transport. I do not have to remind hon. were booming again. This is my statement- members of it. We will be hearing a "All my conviction is that we should great deal about transport before the session strive to retain subsidies as a steady regular finishes. As I told the conference- feature of our public finance. From the "There IS a steady and continuous point of view of Local Government, there clamour for road transport to be com­ are practical limits to the burden that can pletely cleared, leaving the State's Railways be placed directly on the shoulders of the to get along as best they can, which would property owner even if, indirectly, some of clearly mean, in that case, as badly as that burden is reflected in various charges could be. and thus spread more widely through the "Quite plainly, the State's capacity to community. The effect of subsidies is to continue the payment of subsidies is depen­ ease the direct burden on the property dent entirely on its revenues, revenues owner and to transfer that burden to the which must bear the interest and redemp­ shoulders of the general taxpayer." tion on the loans out of which subsidies That is the plain effect of it. are paid. Mr. Lloyd: On the re-introduction of the "If an open road policy were adopted subsidy scheme after the last war, was it tomorrow, the pattern of consequence is not a basic feature that the State would quite clear in my mind. A good percent­ save a lot on works that are normally carried age of the people of the State might hope out by Goverr.ments in the other States? for cheaper, and, in many cases, certainly more convenient transport." 1\fr. HILEY: They never had been in I do not think there is any doubt about that, Queensland. Local authorities in this State but, as I told the conference,- since the beginning of time have been respon­ "The combination of the loss of Railway sible for local roads, Vvater and sewerage. earnings and the added cost of maintaining No change has taken place in the settled the roads would totally destroy the capacity pattern of division of responsibility of local of the State to pay any subsidy at all. government and State Government in Queens­ That would be a bleak day for Local land that would justify a change in the Authority development. From the point approach. of view of the land owner, he would very quickly find that what he saved in trans­ Mr. Llo)d: Yes, but the interest burden port costs and convenience was more than in the other States would be carried by the offset by higher rates that he would be taxpayers, whereas in this State it is carried called upon to pay." by the ratepayers. That, as I see it, is the arithmetical problem that confronts all of us. That is what I told Mr. Walsh: They do not get subsidies in the local authority conference and I have the other States. They were introduced here repeated it this morning. as part of Labour poiicy. I propose to give hon. members a brief Mr. HILEY: The local authorities quite picture of some of the elements that are fairly recognise that the Queensland Govern­ now apparent concerning the year that lies ment pay more in subsidies than every other ahead. As has been indicated in the motion State put together, and that the Queensland that is now before the Committee there is Government will still be doing so after the envisaged a heavier rate of spending from cut. That is recognised by experienced local­ loan funds in the period covered by this authority representatives, who pay tribute to intermediate appropriation. We are in a the Government for their policy. They have position to inform the Committee of the new investigated the position in other States. They loan moneys available to the State. Last came to us and quite fairly told us that year there were £27,600,000 in loan money relatively speaking they do fairly well in and the figure this year will be £28,800,000. Queensland. That is only a small improvement, but it is Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 63 something that should be known. The deben­ lbs. to 243 million lbs.-but the value of ture programme shows an increase following wool will drop by no less than £5,500,000. on the extra £5,000,000 for Australia The combination of fewer bales of wool and announced in the Federal Budget. Last year a lower average price is quite a substantial the debenture programme was £21,847,000 blow to the State's economy. With butter, and this year it appears that it will be where the effect of season is always so £23,908,000. Although I do not propose marked, the quantity produced fell from to anticipate any of the details of the Budget, 87,209,000 lb. to 69,620,000 lb. The value of I can say that there will be heavier spending butter production for the year ended 30 June from the consolidated revenue fund. In addi­ last was down slightly o1t:r £4,000,000. tion to that, this will be a year of really heavy For cattle slaughterings-that is, cattle and expenditure on the Mount Isa railway and calves-the figure as at end of May shows that it should see the start of real expenditure not onlv did the numbers fall but also the on the two new industry giants, that is, value d~opped considerably. Cattle slaugh­ Comalco in the far North and Amoco in the terings were down £5,613,000, and that deep South. v, as only slightly offset by the rise in the value of sheep and lamb slaughterings. That This year promises to be the best year for increased by £1,344,000. On the other hand, finance for co-operative housing. I remind there have been some, where improvement the Committee that no fewer than 17 Orders showed out. The value of tobacco has been in Council were tabled on Tuesday, and the steadily gaining. The value of the tobacco figure is growing rapidly each year. The crop for the year was £2,243,000 ahead of first year of operation of that scheme was last year. Mineral production is continuing the year ended June 1959. The scheme had to expand and the improvement in its value operated for only nine months out of the for the year was approximately £5,000,000. 12, but the guarantees extended totalled £1,150,000. The year after that the total Mr. Hilton: The increase in value of tobacco increased to £1,350,000, and last year it production is nothing to what it really should moved up to £1,850,000. Already this year, have been if all the good, salable leaf had with only a few weeks of the year gone the been sold. figure is £1,155,000. I have no doubt that the total for co-operative housing this year Mr. HILEY: That is right. will surpass last year's total and will com­ I observe soberly that these massive effects fortably pass £2,000,000. of the drought loss of production are some­ thing we all have to take into account, and Mr. Uoyd: Will there be any increase in the effect of drought is often greater than interest charges at all? the mere production loss. Drought has a Mr. HILEY: No, this is co-operative hous­ secondary psychological effect on the primary ing. It depends on the bank rate. We will producer. Most of us know that a primary not guarantee it over and above the rate producer tends to spend freely in a good fixed by the bank. I have had plenty of season, but he buttons up in a bad one. offers of money from overseas people if I Until rain gives him some assurance of good guarantee 6 per cent., 7 per cent. or 8 per pastures he says to his wife, "Now, you keep cent. We could have all the monev we away from the hat shop and the frock shop" want, but I will not do that. Hon me~bers and so on. He hunts the machinery sales­ know my view on high interest rates and man away. He just will not spend until sea­ they know how reluctant I am to do any­ sonal conditions give him a hope of carrying thing that will lift the purchase price of the liability he incurs. houses. I have resisted every temptation to The other matter I think might be soberly guarantee an amount higher than the rate laid referred to the Committee is the problem down by the Central Bank for housing funds. of raising the State debenture programme. Mr. Uoyd: Will there be any increase in I repeat that the raising of the loan in full the State schemes? last year was not easy. It was very easy till December but very difficult from December Mr. HILEY: Yes. That follows on the on. This year the need is greater; we have increased rate in the Commonwealth-State to raise £23,908,000 as against last year's housing agreement. £21,847,000. On top of that new money requirement, every year finds a bigger con­ Those signs are good, but I say quite version factor to face. There has been soberly to the Committee that in my judg­ some small improvement in liquidity but ment they will all be fully needed, because not back to that of the early 1960's. On it is perfectly clear that in many of our top of that, we must recognise that the most important industries the ravages of pattern of investment by life companies and drought have been really severe. I think provident funds has altered. Hon. members most hon. members receive the periodical are familiar with the power of direction bulletins that we circulate which give, in as given some few months ago in the Common­ short a compass as possible, a review of wealth Parliament, which directs that 20 per what is happening in the main industries of cent. of their current funds must go into the State. This year the number of bales of gilt-edged and, while there is a permissive wool will drop-not much-from 250 million up to a further 10 per cent. that can be 64 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply available to the semi-governmentals, I feel dealings with the Commonwealth Govern­ that the whole pattern and history of invest­ ment than Labour had done prior to their ment by life companies and provident funds election and would have done had we been may be altered and that we may not show elected. I suppose we have heard no more any net benefit out 'of it. The best we can doleful predictions from a Liberal Cabinet do is come out about as we were before. Minister, and periodically more criticism I do not look for any great improvement. levelled at Commonwealth authorities, than we have heard from the present Treasurer. Mr. Hilton: That 20 per cent. must be He has drawn attention on more than one invested in Commonwealth bonds. occasion to the failure of the Commonwealth Mr. HILEY: Yes, at least 20 per cent. Government to meet himself and the Premier must be Commonwealth and there must be in regard to the financial problems of 30 per cent. on a combination of Common­ Queensland. That criticism has not been wealth and semi-governmentals, which means restricted to the Treasurer and the Premier, that our share of it can be from nothing to but they have confined their criticism to 10 per cent.; the Commonwealth must be 20 more temperate language than some other and indeed may be as high as 30. Tlrere hon. members. The Minister for Develop­ is no direction above 30 per cent. ment, Mines, Main Roads and Electricity went so far as to say that the parsimonious Mr. Davies: If the Labour Party had treatment would justify Queensland's done that they would be calling it dictator­ seceding from the Commonwealth. That is ship. very strong language from a man holding the portfolio of Development, Mines, Main Mr. HILEY: That may be. Roads and Electricity, because, if the title I just want to summarise in this way: if means anything, one would expect the whole I face the task with no sense of despair, I tempo of government to revolve round am conscious of its magnitude. I will be development. If he felt constrained to say indeed relieved if the year on which we have that about the state of affairs in Queensland, just embarked finds the splendid record of we can realise how bad the position is. full loan raising over the last few years fully In his policy speech, the Deputy Premier maintained. spoke about rewarding relations with "our friends in Canberra." Subsequent experience Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ has shown how inaccurate that prophecy was. Leader of the Opposition) (2.25 p.m.): Each I think he might try his hand at the Weather year this Bill gives us an opportunity of Bureau with a little more success. He seems electing to do one or several things. We to be a particularly disappointing prophet can either mount some general criticism having regard to the predictions in his policy of the Government or take the opportunity speech. afforded by the provisions of the Standing Orders to develop some ideas on pet sub­ In 1958, the Treasurer said- Jects that we may have. On other occasions "The policy of the Government will be hon. members have elected to give the to exhaust the remaining reserves, and Chamber the benefit of their views on some to budget for an additional deficit. It specialised subjects, and that has been the will then apply to become an aided State." pattern followed by the Treasurer in recent years. Today he has elected to use the time In this he has not succeeded to any material available to him largely to give us a recital extent, except that he raided every trust fund of his views on the Government's policy in and made no apology for it. He said quite regard to subsidies to local authorities. Last openly that he believed that the wrong policy year he elected to deal with the question of had been pursued in previous years and that decimal currency. Generally speaking, he did not mind being known as the Treasurer debates have followed that pattern. of a mendicant State. I have no quarrel with those words. I would not mind being Although one is tempted to do so, I do known as the Treasurer of a mendicant not propose to take this opportunity of State if I had been able to get more money, engaging in further criticism of important but all he did was use up, as he said, every aspects of policy. There will be abundant available trust fund that contained sub­ opportunities to members on this side of the stantial reserves. There we have a general Chamber to do that during the debate on confession of failure to achieve by conven­ the Address in Reply and, later on, in the tional means the Budget equilibrium and Budget debate. So I should like to deal finance necessary to enable the State to con­ more particularly with an analysis of some tinue its programme of development. of the observations made by the Treasurer I shall not weary the Chamber by dealing and to make one or two other observations with these particular matters in any more that I think are perhaps relevant to the detail, other than to say that the Treasurer economy of the State at present. was able to convince members of the Loan I find it necessary to say at this stage, Council, or the Premiers' Conference, of the however, that, despite four years in office, desirability of establishing a committee, of the present Government have done very which he was a member, to examine the little to justify their 1957 pledge to the question of interest rates, taxation or con­ people that they would do better in their vertible notes, and other related matters. Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 65

I should like to hear the Treasurer indicate cent. on short-term loans. The response to what progress, if any, has been made in that their loans was adequate in that period. That direction. Although that committee might was at a time when money was relatively .engage in some useful research work, unless tight. The Treasurer might retort by saying I am gravely mistaken, whatever its recom­ that money could not flow to private enter­ mendations are, I think the Commonwealth prise because of the control exercised by the Treasurer will be dictating the financial then Government. That is true; I have to policy to be followed by the State. admit that. We see from this record from I suppose no-one is more adroit than the which the Treasurer has been kind enough to Treasurer in presenting an unpalatable series read that in the periods when he said there of facts to a body of people that he wishes had been a full subscription to these loans to convince in his favour. He has followed the interest rates would have some influence. the lead of a famous Labour politician, the During the period when he said there was late Hon. W. Forgan Smith. I was not a only a 61.8 per cent. response, in 1951-1952, member of his ministry, but it was said of ·the interest rate was £2 9s. 7d. per cent., so him that he first of all practised on his that would be one factor influencing the Under Secretary, then on his Cabinet, then on subscription rate. the Caucus, and then on Parliament. No Secondly, I think we should recall that doubt the Treasurer has followed that general at that time it was not easy for local pattern because I am certain he has had some authorities to secure the professional men very amiable discussions with his financial necessary to draw up these plans and pre­ advisers in the Treasury, then moved from parations and to have them executed, because that sphere to the Cabinet room, and although the Government of the day was obliged to I do not know whether it went to Caucus, at utilise the services of the Agent-General to least it did go to the local authority con­ secure architects and engineers from over­ ference recently, and today we are regaled seas. During that time there was a tremen­ with his views. By this time he should have dous acceleration of development by the been able to plug all the little gaps in his Commonwealth and they, as the Premier well case because he has had an opportunity to knows, took from the various State Govern­ repair any weaknesses that his original sub­ ments key specialised officers, which decreased missions may have contained. the capacity of State Governments and muni­ cipalities to find skilled personnel necessary 'What in general are his submissions about for the drawing up of these particular plans 'these subsidy matters? His first submission and schemes. Additionally there was even was that it was becoming unmanageable. He at that time an acute shortage of many of ,gave us a series of figures to show how the the items necessary for the prosecution of total percentage of the State's loan resources these schemes-steel in particular. :had been diverted, from something in the order of 10 per cent. originally to a figure Mention was made today of our going now approaching 26 per cent. He said that overseas for steel for the Burdekin Bridge it was beyond the capacity of the State to do but there was nobody else from whom it that. We shall examine those figures further could be got. At that time the Government in due course. of the day placed a requisition with Broken Hill-this was at the time Italian companies The Treasurer, whatever the reason for it were utilised on the construction of the ;may be, has now cut down on the percentage Indooroopilly Bridge-but Broken Hill were rate of subsidy. That is admitted quite obtaining steel for their own requirements frankly, the avowed purpose of it being to from overseas producers at that period. i!"educe the indebtedness of the Crown in that direction. In order to cut across any criticism Those were factors that were responsible that might emanate from the local authorities for local authorities wishing to embark upon that this Government had done something schemes not being able to prosecute them that the Labour Government did not do or to a stage enabling their completion, and were obliged to do, irrespective of what the therefore to utilise the funds that had tech­ circumstances may have been if we were in nically been made available to them. power, he said, "In addition to these things, In the following year, when interest rates of course, we succeeded where the Labour went up to £3 18s. 3d. per cent., the Government failed in getting all our loans percentage response was 68.9, and so the fully subscribed. Because of that, we conse­ pattern generally followed with one variation ,quently had greater demands upon our in 1958-1959, when the interest rate was resources than :Labour Governments had." 1.10d. per cent. less than in 1957-1958. Let us examine that more closely. Interest Those were the factors that influenced these rates are one of the determining factors that things as well as other considerations. influence subscriptions to the various loans. I think it can be said quite frankly that the In 1951 the Federal Labour Government Federal Labour Government were able to were primarily responsible for laying down establish during their term of office that they a policy for the industrialisation of this could attract successfully investors to the country. I do not think anyone can take Commonwealth loans at figures half the that credit away. I have listened to speeches existing rate, down to only 3t,- per cent. on by various trade commissioners and trade jong-term loans and something like 2t per representatives, not many years ago, when 3 66 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply they pleaded and urged that Australia should they have to restrict their local programmes be predominantly a primary-producing nation, or impose a greater burden on their rate­ selling her goods to the United Kingdom, payers. According to his own statement, the and in return that we should take her manu­ burden on the property-owner is getting too factured goods. I heard many people advo­ high, and so we cannot expect it to be cate that not too many years ago, but increased. In this State I think a revolt is Mr. Chifley and those with him decided growing against this tendency of local that we could not afford, in the light of authorities to keep on increasing rates. It the second world war to place ourselves in has not manifested itself to date, but I the position of depending for our security think it will. In my own case rates have on the rewards we receive as a primary­ gone up over a period of years, without any producing nation. noticeable advantages to me. I happen to be in a street that was bitumenised when No-one who is a student of the political I went there, but the rates have increased history of this country would deny that credit by £13 a year to £42 and will go up to £47 for attracting large-scale industries to this with the new increase, or in other words country, and these people had priority. £1 a week in rates in a place like Because of the access these men had to Toowoomba. I think the Toogoolawah financial institutions, they could attract funds water scheme, which misses out on the away from local government and Common­ proposed subsidy, works out at something wealth loans that fell short of the more like £30 a year. That amount for the remunerative investments in private industry. proposed sewerage scheme is beyond the This programme continued, and during this capacity of the ratepayers. The Treasurer period the Treasurer has been able to reap has tried to shift criticism from the Govern­ the benefit of that because with the increased ment to other places and, not trying to tempo of investment in actual amounts of incur the displeasure of the ratepayers in money and in the increase in the capital the local authority areas, he has drawn of firms and the expanding population, there attention to transport costs. But his Govern­ has been a progressively less demand to ment were going to cure those things. They satisfy. That was the case some years ago said in 1957 that they were going to run and today, many of our secondary industries the Railway Department like a business, that are in the position about which we read there would not be all these deficits or all some time ago when the Chamber of Manu­ these charges on Consolidated Revenue. As factures said that with the existing plant I pointed out yesterday, in a period of four capacity in Australia we could increase our years, railway deficits have been £10,000,000 production by £450,000,000. Without one more than they were in a similar period additional pound being invested in secondary under Labour Governments. If that industry we could produce extra goods to £10,000,000, savings that the Minister for the order of £450,000,000. There may be Transport said he was going to effect, was a desirable need but not the same essential available in Consolidated Revenue, the need for capital equipment as there is for Treasurer's task of dealing with applications an expansion in the reticulation of electricity, from local authorities for assistance would water supply and sewerage by local be much easier. authorities. These are continuing obligations. The Government were not elected to We will have a continuance of this factor. impose additional taxation, but no doubt Because of the fact that there has been they will, probably in the form of liquor competition in some industries, the security licenses, and fees. Undoubtedly they will for investment in private enterprise now is examine every means of increasing their not as great as it was some time ago. We revenue but, apart from increases in rates, have seen a catastrophic drop in share prices local authorities have not the same legislative in the last year, and yields have increased. power, encompassing the general field of Low yields, of course, are received on first­ taxation, as the State Government have. I class stock, a return of 2 per cent. and think if the policy of curtailment of subsidies 1.9 per cent., but, comparing the position is applied it must have a concertina effect. today with the position seven or eight years In due course it will affect employment ago, the yield from private industry is higher somewhere along the line. The people of today. The risk factor has compelled many Toogoolawah, for instance, were able to people to withdraw their investments from finance the scheme under the previous subsidy equity shares and to channel them into local rate, but now, I understand, the subsidy is government borrowing and Commonwealth related only to the main trunk mains and loans, with the taxation advantages that accrue from that policy. Those are points not to reticulation to individual householders. that have to be borne in mind. The It follows that employment that reasonably Treasurer dealt with the matter in a very could be expected to be available will not plausible way, and I give him credit for now be available. The cumulative effect of doing so. He does not rebuke previous the policy will be reflected in due course administrations; he accepts his share of the in schemes not being proceeded with. blame, but there is another side to it. As There are two sides to the subject. I he said, if subsidies are withdrawn and am not speaking in any spirit of animosity obligations are thrown on local authorities or in an acrimonious manner in raising this they have to do one of two things, either matter. With the Treasurer I am merely Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 67

pointing out these things. I hope he will so that there will be adequate protection for accept my statements in that manner. I am the Australian economy and the people living putting forward these points for examination. in the country. That is all I ask for, and There are several things about which I should I think we should press for that. As Queens­ like to have spoken, but it is not possible land is a predominantly primary-producing to go into great detail in a matter of a State she will be affected by the Common quarter of an hour. The Treasurer has Market. England will do exactly what she drawn attention to seasonal prospects and thinks best in her own interests. We should so on for next year. I think a most import­ do everything possible to encourage the ant matter at the moment is our general people of Australia to gain the widest possible attitude to this question of the European knowledge of all the implications of the Common Market. I should be interested to Common Market. On the question of looking hear what the hon. member has to say who for markets elsewhere, when I raised the has this subject listed on the business paper. matter here 18 months ago there was not I am not going to canvass it in great detail much interest displayed. When I suggested at this stage but I must say I am disappointed developing trade with Asia my remarks were with the high-pressure tactics that were used received with one or two sneers and there by no less a person than the Lord Mayor of was talk about following the Commo line. London who said quite openly that he had In Moscow recently, 624 British firms attended no politics, and that no politician was answer­ a trade display to sell to the Russians. The able to him, or he to any politician. On Italians sell to the Russians, and so do the the eve of his departure from Mascot he said Germans and the French. But here, when he wanted to pay a tribute to the magnificent it was suggested that we should sell to the speech made by Mr. Menzies about the tremendous Asian potential market we had Common Market and Mr. Macmillan would these people sneering at us or crying out to do so-and-so and something else. If Sir us, saying "You are following the Commo. Bernard Waley-Cohen has no charter to come line." Ev~n the wheat-growers are going out here and speak as a politician I do not think of their way to extend terms of credit to he should come here and tell us what we Red China so that they can sell wheat, and should do about the Common Market, and Mr. Vines, the director of the Wool Promo­ our obligations, and the consequences to this tion Scheme, said that he would sell to a country. Chinaman or anyone else as long as he could make suitable financial arrangements I have attacked the Federal Government for the purchase of Australian wool. We on many occasions, but I would not be have to be realistic in our approach to see ashamed to face a Labour audience and say that we get the best possible price for our that the only man in whom I have any confi­ primary producers so that we may maintain dence in the Federal Parliament is the Minis­ our high standard of living. Hon. members ter for Trade, Mr. McEwen. I think he is on the Government side of the House, as putting up a genuine and sincere fight on well as hon. members on this side of the this problem. I pay him this tribute: I House-whom I know will do so--will have think he is a most knowledgeable man and to bring very strong pressure to bear on I am very sorry that they sacked Sir Jack Federal members of Parliament so that the Crawford who has a deeper knowledge of Australian interest is preserved and pro­ these matters. tected every inch of the way. This is a We are conscious of the great difficulties fascinating subject to all of us and many confronting England at the present time. We interesting matters could be raised in support are all aware of the tremendous financial of the proposal but time prevents me from sacrifices England made during the war. She doing so. We have demonstrated already was compelled to sell her assets so that she that we are in a very difficult financial posi­ could pay for the war material she was tion. The Treasurer has indicated it, and obtaining from America. She was compelled a combination of what I have suggested, with to station troops in Europe when Germany amplification and elaboration, will be a useful and the other countries like Italy were not field for discussion and I hope it will be obliged to do the same. Because of the beneficial to the Queensland economy and menace of Communism, American capital to the economy of the Australian nation as was poured into Germany for the building a whole. and equipment of modern factories, and now Hon. P. J. R. HILTON (Carnarvon) (2.51 Britain has the lowest increase in national p.m.): The Bill gives us an opportunity to production among any of the continental refer to the really urgent financial problems powers. She is in a very difficult position. that confront us. Obviously tire time I am very sorry for her, and without any allowed does not permit us to engage in a qualification I say that she is entitled to take whatever course she thinks best in her full-scale debate on all those problems but own interests. I have no quarrel with that I was very interested today to hear the nor has the Queensland branch of the Aus­ Treasurer giving his apology, logical though tralian Labour Party. However, I must it may be, for reducing the subsidies to local point out to the Committee that we will not authorities. One thought that occurred to be sold down the line of patriotism because me while he was speaking was that for many patriotism begins at home. I want to see years local authorities in Queensland have a quick, vigorous and intelligent approach been treated much better than those in to the dangers of this proposed arrangement any other State of the Commowealth. When 68 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply the Treasurer and his colleagues were in Mr. HILTON: There was no official warn­ Opposition they would never concede that. ing. The Treasurer may have intimated in On the contrary, at election time they always the House that subsidies would be reduced. charged the State Government with not giving a due measure of assistance to local Mr. Hiley: I told the local authorities two authorities throughout the State. The years ago that it was coming, and I told Treasurer has admitted today that all their the House in my Budget speech last year that arguments in bygone days were not valid the cut was inevitable. in that respect and now, as he is forced to reduce the subsidy because of the financial Mr. HILTON: The Treasury have not seen policy that he himself pursued in recent fit to advise local authorities to that effect. years, and which of course has been likewise The fact that somebody may stand up in pursued by his colleagues in the Common­ the Chamber and visualise something hap­ wealth sphere, local authorities in Queensland pening does not provide a valid excuse. The are faced with a really serious situation. economics of any local authority scheme are reviewed by the Treasury, and the local I concede that the Treasurer put forward a authorities were not warned, "Don't bank on logical case on the position facing the State a 50 per cent. subsidy. It may be only 40 Government at present-he always argues per cent." If they were warned, that is logically on financial matters-but he did not news to me, and I do not think that advice go back to the real root of the trouble. He was ever given to them. Although there did not inform the Committee that, because might have been a vague and general warning of the financial mismanagement of the affairs that, because of the financial position that of the Commonwealth by his Federal col­ was developing, subsidies may have to be leagues and because of the reckless financial cut, no official advice was sent to them, and policy that he himself pursued in his early when their schemes were submitted to the years of office, Queensland is now forced Co-ordinator-General, the Treasury and the to withdraw a great measure of this very Local Government Department they were valuable assistance to local government. not told, "Don't bank on 50 per cent. It may While I concede that the Government are be 40 per cent. or 30 per cent." If they forced to do it because of past mismanage­ had received that advice, many local authori­ ment, I think that in carrying out the scheme ties would not have undertaken the very sub­ they have been unfair to many local authori­ stantial expenditure necessary for the planning ties. Some local authorities embarked on of those particular schemes. I think the sewerage and water supply schemes and, decision should be reviewed in cases where after they had all the engineering carried out local authorities have raised substantial loans and their plans prepared, they found they to cover preliminary expenses and now, could not proceed with the works immedi­ because of this cut in subsidy, they have been ately. They had to wait until funds were forced to foist the scheme onto the ratepayers available to them. I will instance sewerage who may not be able to stand up to it, or in a particular manner. They embarked on they may have to pay interest and redemp­ schemes on the assumption, of course, that tion on a planning loan and get no benefit the current 50 per cent. subsidy would apply from it. to them. They engaged engineers and had the plans drawn. They obtained loans for Mr. Hiley: I will lay you a shade of odds the financing of all their detailed surveys that every one of those schemes will go and engineering. They awaited the com­ ahead. mencement of this financial year to get the necessary loan moneys to proceed with their Mr. HILTON: I am not a betting man. works when, like a bolt out of the blue, the The Treasurer may be. I saw him at the Government decided to reduce the subsidy races recently with a smile on his face. If for those schemes to 40 per cent. It is they do go ahead, I think it will be found obvious that some local authorities will not that in a few years' time many local authori­ be able to proceed with this important and ties will have a number of properties on useful work, which would provide a great their hands for sale because the people deal of employment if it were commenced owning them are unable to meet their com­ at an early date. In all fairness, as the mitments to the local authorities. If the Government are budgeting for a deficit, I Treasurer is prepared to bet that they will think they should have considered the position go ahead with the schemes, I am prepared of those local authorities that were waiting to to bet that in a few years' time many local get the necessary loan moneys to proceed authorities will be almost insolvent because with their works, and not chopped them their ratepayers will not be able to pay down by 10 per cent. without prior warning, their dues. thus making the works impossible. I appeal to the Treasurer and the Premier, even at I suggest that the Queensland Government this late stage, to give consideration to and other State Governments should take a those local authorities that have been affected realistic view of the position facing local so badly by this drastic cut in subsidy. authorities and endeavour, in association with the Commonwealth Government, to Mr. Hiley: All that argument is based on reintroduce a scheme somewhat comparable the fact that there was no warning. to that prevailing during the depression to Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 69 assist local authorities and assist in alleviat­ are released. Let us be realistic. Let us ing unemployment. I have read many give serious consideration to the matter now worthwhile publications prepared by local while there is still time, because there will authorities throughout Australia in which be confusion worse confounded in local they have sought additional avenues of government finance. It will have an adverse finance. Anybody who has studied local effect on the whole of the State's economy gov.erl!ment, as I have tried to make a study if something practical is not done in this of It m Queensland, will realise that there is direction immediately. an unanswerable case for an extra measure of assistance. With all sincerity I urge that Although the Treasurer gave some logical at the next Premier's conference or at the reasons why the State Government are com­ next meeting of the Loan Council all State pelled to reduce subsidies, he did not elect Governments make a firm approach to the to give the Committee any reasons that the Commonwealth Government to shoulder Commonwealth Government advanced to him with them some portion of the increasing and the Premier why they are consistently cost of local government. It could be done refusing to recognise Queensland's need for without the Commonwealth Government's extra money for the development of the commit.tting themselves to any great annual State, patricularly North Queensland. Per­ expenditure. I recall the scheme in the days haps he may tell us that in the Budget of the depression when the Commonwealth debate. I am not going to debate this sub­ Government met one-third of the interest and ject at length today but I think the people redemption payments, the State Government of Queensland want to know what reasons one-third, and local government one-third. the Commonwealth Government have for A vast amount of work was put under way refusing to give a reasonable measure of immediately. Only a limited amount of assistance to Queensland, as they have given money was made available under that to South Australia, Western Australia and scheme, but it was taken up readily by all other States. I am not referring to grants local authorities. My argument is that local made by the Commonwealth Grants Com­ government throughout Australia has now mission. reached the stage where it will be necessary Western Australia has received extra finan­ for local authorities to receive some assi~t­ cial assistance for years past. I have not seen anc;e if t?ey are to continue to perform the tables in the Federal Budget recently their all-Important function. If such a delivered in Federal Parliament, but I am scheme were implemented immediately it quite certain it would be found that again would be an important factor in helping to relieve the unemployment that sorrowfully this year a special grant is being made to and undoubtedly is growing throughout the Western Australia to develop the northern length and breadth of Australia. part of that State. There is another angle to it. In Queens­ In Queensland, there has been much head­ land there has been a great deal of comment line publicity about assistance in building beef about the very vexed question of local roads, but such assistance is conditional. The authority valuations. I see the hon. member State Government are forced to meet that for South Coast lift his eyebrows immedi­ assistance pound for pound, which means, of ately. This is a matter that undoubtedly course, that main roads money that would be concerns local authorities. The Valuer­ available in other centres has to be directed General, of course, fixes his value on the to these particular roads. The people in this only yardstick available to him one that is State want to know has the Commonwealth recognised by all competent 'valuers and Government given any specific reason to the indeed by the High Court of Australia. The Premier or the Treasurer as to why they have argument is advanced that when valuations refused this necessary measure of financial are increased, local authorities reduce their assistance to Queensland to enable us to carry rates accordingly, but with the reduction of out that developmental work in the North. subsidies the local authorities will not be I should like the Treasurer to inform us on able to effect anything like comparable that point because I recall that, in the past reductions. when he was in Opposition, he had the Mr. Gaven. They never ever did. courage to stand over here and make a critical analysis of the financial administra­ Mr. HILTON: I concede that-except in tion of the Commonwealth Government in a few cases where they did make some those days. I should like to hear the argu­ attempt. I foresee that when the valuations ments adduced by the Commonwealth for the City of Brisbane are released next Government at loan council meetings as to year, there will be such a hue and cry that why they are holding out on Queensland. some action will have to be taken either to We know that the Premier and the Treasurer eliminate altogether the Valuer-General's promised this State that they had the right Department or make for some measure of technique and were full of hope on what they assistance for the Brisbane City Council. would achieve in this direction. Why have The same will apply in every provincial their hopes and those of the people of city and town. At the present level of the Queensland been dashed and why has no State's economy ratepayers will not be able logical explanation been forthcoming? to meet their commitments to local authori­ ties because they will be faced with an extra Another important aspect that comes to my burden of rates once the higher valuations mind today in r~gard to the reduction of 70 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

subsidies-the Leader of the Opposition should be made to see that 10 per cent. is referred to it-is the increased cost of money. invested in local government loans. The Interest rates have gone up tremendously as Trea:Surer laid claim to credit-! do not the Treasurer revealed and no-one can deny doubt the fact-that local government alloca­ the fact that hire purchase has been respon­ tions in recent years have been subscribed sible for that great increase in recent years. in full. I asked for information as I wanted It is passing strange that, when the Common­ to be clear on the point. In the last year wealth Government did elect to take some of the Labour Government in Queensland measures to stop the out-of-proportion. trend only 0.3 per cent. of local government of hire purchase, intense pressure was put on raisings were not realised. That percentage them and, within a few months' time, they is negligible. The figure indicates quite backed down from the restraint they had put clearly that before the Treasurer took of!ice on hire-purchase activities. Now we find that, local authorities were getting all posstble because of this lack of restraint on hire­ assistance from the State Government in purchase interest rates, the consequential raising their allocations of loan money. inflationary trend is one of the factors affect­ ing local authority subsidies. The State Government Insurance Office has always been to the fore in that respect. I hope the time will arrive in Australia I speak from memory, and do not claim to when there will be some legislation enacted, know the facts and figures for other super­ some legal authority given to the Common­ annuation funds, but I think the State Gov­ wealth Government if they do not now pos­ ernment always made sure that local govern­ sess it-and that is a moot point-whereby ment got its fair share of the cash resources these inflationary rates of interest can be of the Government available for investment. curtailed and the disaster they are bringing The magnificent role of the State Govern­ in their wake eliminated. ment Insurance Office and its assistance to local authorities in the raising of their loan I think the Treasurer would concede that quotas have been mentioned time and time the high rates of interest paid by hire­ again in this Chamber. purchase companies to investors has been the major cause of the increase in interest rates Mr. Hiley: Every year its help has dwarfed in recent years. the total help from all other components in the life insurance field. Mr. Hiley: I have never had any doubt about it. Mr. HILTON: That would be quite true. But I thought the Treasurer had some magic Mr. HILTON: No doubt about it whatever. wand or some secret formula. I tried to 'Our economy is being placed in jeopardy elicit from him whether he had something because of these continued rises in interest up his sleeve in that regard, but I have come rates, local government is suffering and to the conclusion, on the record in loan unemployment has been created because of them. raisings in the last year of the Labour Government, that the ground had been set Mr. Burrows: The Government gave hire­ for the Treasurer, that he has no secret purchase companies a license to charge 20 formula at all but was merely in the happy per cent. Although they could under the position of being able to build on very good Hire Purchase Bill have fixed hire-purchase foundations. I do not think he can claim interest rates, they did not do so. any credit in that direction. Mr. HILTON: I agree, but the time has Mr. Hanlon: He put up his umbrella arrived when the people demand action on when it started to rain; that is all he did. a Federal level to curtail interest rates. Mr. HILTON: That is quite so. I listened with interest to the Treasurer's Other matters of great concern to us arise reference to the direction to insurance com­ from Great Britain's proposed entry into the panies to invest at least 20 per cent. of European Common Market, to which the their available moneys in Commonwealth Leader of the Opposition referred. At a loans. I cannot for the life of me under­ later stage I hope to make many observa­ stand why the Commonwealth Government tions about consequential problems that con­ as a gesture to the States in their financial front us, but at this stage I content myself difficulties did not make it mandatory for in saying that it is useless to rely only on the companies to invest another I 0 per cent. the Commonwealth Government to face these in gilt-edged securities of local government. problems. I think each and every State Such a direction would have been of should take immediate action so that we will tremendous benefit. The Commonwealth be in a position to meet these problems when Government are ensuring that they get an they arise. We must have the factual investment of 20 per cent. in their loans. information so that we can go direct to the so why would they not insist that the other Commonwealth Government, and not merely 10 per cent. be invested in local government rely on the efforts of their officers to collate loans? Local Government loans are gilt­ this information. I strongly urge that all edged security and in the final analysis State instrumentalities be directed to make have the backing of the State Treasury. I a correct appreciation of those problems, and repeat that even at this late stage every effort that activity in that direction be set in train Supply [24 AUGUST} Supply 71

at once, so that we will be in a position to Tasmania it is 18 per cent. That gives us a place the factual position before the Com­ clear indication of how the subsidy system monwealth Government. We should not has had to develop in Queensland. It has allow them to take complete charge of the developed from a depression measr:re, as the situation. Treasurer said. It was almost abolished dur­ ing the war years and was revived as a Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (3.15 p.m.): The general assistance progran:m~ after the ~ar Treasurer has raised the matter of subsidies mainly because of the reahsat10n at that tune to local authorities. This is a very important that local authorities in Queensland were subject and I believe it will control the whole undertaking most of the developmental ~ork. level of employment in Queensland. For Local authority expenditure is so much h1gher many years a .great contribution has been than State Government expenditure. So in made by local bodies to the level of employ­ all these cases the work has been transferred ment in the State. Queensland is in a vastly through necessity because of the deceD;tr~lisa­ different position from the other Australian tion policy from State Governmen~ acttvl~Y. to States. We have the greatest decentralisation semi-governmental or local-authonty act1v1ty. of population, the greatest number of towns It was appreciated in the past that there would and the greatest diversity of industry. The be an ever-increasing interest burden on the whole of our employment in the local people living in those local-authority areas. authority areas depends on decentralisation of development. South Australia, in particu­ In South Australia the whole of the water lar, has only one small portion of the State supply is undertaken by the Government and arable, populated or developed. They could the taxpayers meet the full impact of the concentrate the whole of their development interest burden. within 100 miles of Adelaide. Victoria is in In Victoria a great deal of the work is a similar position; New South Wales is carried out by semi-governmental bodies slightly different. From the picture I have which, in all probability, are ind<:p~ndent. given I think we can get an idea of exactly Their activities are a busmess propos1t1on. In how the money is spent in Queensland, other words, they are supposed to be able to whether it is spent by the State Government, meet from the charges they levy the full local authorities, or semi-governmental bodies. interest burden and capital redemption pay­ If we make an examination of the figures ments. which were given in the Co-ordinator­ We can get a further picture if we exam­ General's last report we will get some idea ine carefully the percentage figures the of the importance of the subsidy system to Treasurer gave. I do not intend to attempt the local authorities. On page 21 of that to rebut them. I believe they are accurate. report we find, "Approved borrowing pro­ But when he outlined the development of the grammes per head of population, govern­ percentage basis of the payment of subsidy he mental, semi-governmental, and local bodies. did so only on the new loan rais~ngs and the 1958-1959 to 1960-1961," for each State of subsidy was taken on the p:oport10n of tho~e the Commonwealth. The table shows- loan raisings. Whether that 1s the correct bas1s Semi­ I am not prepared to say at the moment, but Governmental I think the Committee is entitled to have a and Local different basis on which to judge the need Total Bodies for maintaining the level of subsidy payments. £000 £000 New South Wales 105,577 31,883 In 1956 the previous Treasurer set. out in Victoria 97,845 38,740 his Financial Statement a table showmg the Queensland 49,447 21,847 percentage of expenditure from the loan fund South Australia 37,028 5,261 that each item represented. On page 545 of Western Australia 26,260 4,620 "Hansard" Vol. 214, we find the figure is Tasmania 19,843 3,649 slightly hlgher than that for subsidies. It includes a small proportion of loans over and On a percentage basis the figures disclose .the serious impact that semi-government and above the subsidies themselves. It is- local-government borrowings had in Queens­ Per­ land on our employment situation. The per­ cent- centage of semi-governmental and local £ age authority borrowings in New South Wales is "Loans and subsidies 32 per cent. of which no more than 10 per to Local Bodies cent. is local authority borrowing. In Vic­ and Hospitals toria it is 39 per cent. Of that amount I Boards 5,548,568 25.62" think no more than about 2 per cent. is That is the percentage of the total loan local authority borrowing. It is mostly semi­ expenditure during the year 1955-1956. governmental. In Queensland it is 64 per cent., and almost 60 per cent. of that is the Mr. Hiley: That would include Treasury borrowing programme of the local authorities loans that had to be paid back by the of Queensland. In South Australia I believe borrower. the semi-governmental and local authority borrowing is no more than 13 per cent.; in Mr. LLOYD: That is of the total expendit­ Western Australia it is 17 per cent. and in ure on works. 72 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. Hiley: Yes, but that figure you are the whole 12 months and no work would be quoting covers loans and subsidies. done. We will not put them onto the programme until the plans are ready. Mr. LLOYD: That is right. Mr. LLOYD: To a great extent that was Mr. HUey: That is a mixture of subsidies the fault of the local authorities, too. granted, not repayable, and treasury loans. Mr. Hiley: That could be so. They are Mr. LLOYD: There is a difference of some the ones who did it. £200,000 or £300,000. In one year it went up to some £700,000 above the level of the Mr. LLOYD: In many instances local subsidies paid, but I think the figure can be authorities were refusing to go into debt used as a further basis of comparison. That to carry out works programmes, and I think came to 25.62 per cent. of the total expendit­ some would still do that. The tendency ure on works. had grown to divert money from minor work Take the loan fund expenditure on works to the work which was subject to the subsidy for the year 1960-1961, £29,685,875. The granted by the Government. I disagree comparable figure with that shown in the with the hon. member for Carnarvon on this table for 1955-1956 for loans and subsidies point to a certain extent. I think it will be to local bodies and hospitals boards is found that the work will still go into the £6,690,880, which amounts to only 22 per channels where the subsidy is payable. Where cent. Whether or not that is an accurate basis water supply and sewerage schemes are of comparison, I think we can take it as one undertaken, the local authority has an equity b~sis on which we can compare the expen­ in them because it charges a rate over and diture by the State on loans and subsidies above the ordinary rate. There is a danger granted to local bodies in two different years. that a greater part of the authorised loan Those figures show a decrease in the actual programme of the local authorities would be percentage of subsidy given when compared absorbed in those works. with the total works programme of the State Mr. Hiley: That has happened already. Government. Mr. Hiley: That total works programme Mr. LLOYD: Well, I do not tlrink that includes a conglomeration of all sorts of any reduction of 10 per cent. in the subsidy things. For example, when we reclaim Bulwer granted on any major works such as water Island, that comes under the works supply and sewerage will have any effect on programme. that tendency. Mr. Hiley: Why waste time talking about Mr. LLOYD: Yes. It also includes other it, then? Loan funds which I have no doubt come back to the Government each year. Mr. LLOYD: Because any reduction in sub­ sidy means less work by the local authorities. Mr. Hiley: Not much in respect of Treasury loans. There are not many of them. We Mr. Hiley: The total amount available, a cannot float any more. combination of loan allocation and subsidy, will be greater than in past years. Mr. LLOYD: I think we should give this matter a great deal of consideration. We Mr. LLOYD: I realise that there is only have levelled some criticism at the Govern­ a certain amount of money available for ment in the past few years because, although local authorities. At the same time that they have managed to ensure that local money has to be distributed over the greatest authorities raise 100 per cent. of their bor- · possible amount of work. If the local rowing 12rogramme, at times money has been authority has to bear a greater interest pushed mto areas at a certain time of the burden they are more likely to carry out a year to enable that amount of money to reduced amount of work. If they have to be spent when there is a carry-over in the pay £1,000,000 this year in interest charges works programme of the local authorities. on loan indebtedness, in several years' time because of the reduction in subsidy on Mr. Hiley: It is less than it was. works the interest charges will be increased, say, to £1,200,000, so that £200,000 less Mr. LLOYD: It is sounder than it was. At work will be carried out by them. one time local authorities were forced to spend a great deal of their money outside Mr. Hiley: They do not pay interest out the periods when there was a good deal of their loan fund, but out of their revenue of unemployment. Endeavouring to spread fund. it over tire whole period may have had some disadvantages, but it also had considerable Mr. LLOYD: If it comes out of their benefits. revenue account their rate charges in that year will have to be increased, but there is Mr. Hiley: What we set out to correct still that factor involved. The local was this: previously items would come onto authorities of Queensland are carrying out the loan programme without a plan being work which in any other State is carried drawn. The money would be unused for out by either semi-government authorities or Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 73 by the State Governments themselves. If roads. It brings to mind the disadvantages it comes from their revenue account the cost of the new formula in 1959 under which of water supply and sewerage would be Queensland loses £1,500,000 over five years, passed on to the ratepayers instead of the while Victoria has gained at our expense. taxpayers of the whole of the State as Whereas for the past four years we have occurs in other States. I believe that there had a series of deficits, Victoria has gone is some basis for the original intention at from a deficit of £4,000,000 to a small the end of the last war to grant subsidies surplus in the last financial year. to local authorities because of the realisation that they were undertaking a great deal of In relation to water supply 15 per cent. the work which in other States was undertaken of the net loan expenditure was used in by the State Governments or some semi­ New South Wales, 19 per cent. in Victoria, governmental authorities. 8 per cent. in Queensland, 26 per cent. in South Australia, 19 per cent in Western A table appearing in the report of the Australia, and 1 per .cent. in Tasmania. Commonwealth Grants Commission shows the percentage of expenditure on works in The figures for public buildings are 15 per each State of the Commonwealth. On rail­ cent. in New South Wales, 19 per cent. in ways, at 30 June, 1960, New South Wales Victoria, 12 per cent. in Queensland, 11 per spent 34 per cent. of its net loan expenditure. cent. in South Australia, 10 per cent. in The figures for the other States are as Western Australia, and 13 per cent. in follows- Tasmania. Per cent. Land settlement is a very important feature Victoria 25 so far as Queensland is concerned. In this Queensland 37 connection expenditure in New South Wales South Australia 20 was 5 per cent., in Victoria 12 per cent., in Western Australia 26 Queensland 4 per cent., in South Australia Tasmania 9 3 per cent.-a State of which very little would be arable or capable of being more Some of these figures are very significant. closely settled-6 per cent. in Western Aus­ Mr. Hiley: What are you reading from? tralia, and 2 per cent. in Tasmania. Again we find a very small percentage of expendi­ Mr. LLOYD: The report of the Common­ ture on this work which is so important in a wealth Grants Commission. developing State. Queensland is of such importance to the nation that it should receive Mr. Hiley: What page? a greater proportion of this expenditure. Mr. LLOYD: I could not give the page Expenditure on electricity in Queensland is, number but it is in the .chapter dealing of course, contained in "all other expendi­ with the differences between the States. Here ture" but the actual expenditure on this item are the figures for the expenditure on roads during the year, I understand amounted to 17 and harbours- per cent. of the net loan expenditure. That Per cent. compares with 15 per cent. in New South New South Wales 7 Wales, 9 per cent. in Victoria, 14 per cent. Victoria 4 in South Australia, 8 per cent. in Western Queensland 4 Australia, and 49 per cent. in Tasmania. South Australia 6 The picture drawn by those figures is that Western Australia 8 in those States there has been an urge to Tasmania 9 develop the production of electricity. In The figures give a fair indication of the Tasmania, where there is a vast potential for impact of railway expenditure in Queensland hydro-electric power development, and in on the State's loan fund expenditure. I think South Australia where vast sums have been this is a matter that the Treasurer himself spent on water supply, those things have has raised from time to time. This year been taken into consideration in Loan Council we find that there has been quite a reduction deliberations to enable those two States to in the loan fund expenditure on the railways, receive favourable treatment compared with somewhere in the vicinty of £1,500,000 less. that meted out to Queensland. Forty-nine In Victoria a net loan expenditure of 4 JJer per cent. of loan expenditure has been made cent. on roads and harbours is exactly the on electrical undertakings in Tasmania and same as the expenditure in Queensland. only 9 per cent. on railways. Expenditure Although Victoria has no more than one or on railways in Tasmania is naturally small. two ports, or three at the most, and is so Expenditure on water supply in Tasmania is small in area compared with Queensland, 26 per cent. and I believe it is only in the their expenditure on roads and harbours last few years that it has been reduced to could be expected to be much less than the that figure. In previous years there has been expenditure required in Queensland, yet a diversion of large sums of money into Queensland spent only the same percentage South Australia, more than there has been in as Victoria. the lowest figure in the Common­ the past two or three years, when there has wealth. Every other State spent far in been a slight reduction of the allocation of excess of Queensland where we have borrowing to South Australia, enabling decentralised ports and a vast network of Queensland to advance to something in the 74 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

order of 1 per cent. and Tasmania to be In the remarks I am going to make I increased to 2 or 3 per cent. of the allocation want it to be clearly understood that I am of loan money. speaking as a layman. I do not pose as an expert on the subjects on which I shall Mr. Hiley: Your argument is that we speak but I think I know something about should spend less on railways and more on these other projects? them. At least it could be claimed for me by my worst enemy that I am fairly observ­ Mr. LLOYD: No, I am arguing more ant. It is true that in Townsville quite a against the Loan Council than against the few new industries have been established. Government at the present time. For the We have been very happy to get them, information of the hon. member for Towns­ because the more new industries we get in ville South, I said at Dalby-- Townsville, and in the area, the more pros­ perous the place will be and the less prospect Mr. Aikens: I will tell you what you said there will be of a huge army of unemployed at Dalby. at the end of every year. Mr. LLOYD: It was because of my efforts Mr. Hiley: I think it is right to say that at the Dalby meeting that a certain resolution proportionately Townsville has grown faster that was aimed directly at the Railway than any other part of Queensland. Department was defeated. My case was that 'the men in the railways in Queensland have Mr. AIKENS: That may be so. I am achieved a great deal in its development and glad the Treasurer made the point as it have much responsibility for the future will drive home to otlrer hon. members the development of this State. statement I am going to make. Mr. Aikens: You said that railwaymen Unfortunately the great basic industry that were loafing on the job. has been established there for years and to which all the other industries established Mr. LLOYD: Wrong again! Just briefly recently are merely ancillary, that is, the on that matter, it is essential for any export meat industry, has been allowed to government when framing .common policy languish. Consequently, if we do not get a to give consideration to the welfare of rail­ very good wet season and if we do not have a waymen and of all employees in the State. good turnoff of cattle from the natural pas­ (Time expired.) tures in the West and North, we have a short meatworks season and a lruge army of unem­ Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (3.40 ployed meatworkers at the end of the year. p.m.): I should consider that any govern­ The meatworks, when they close, naturally ment, irrespective of their political com­ throw out of work quite a number of men plexion, would be deeply concerned at the and women. The railways go more or less growth of unemployment not only in the into a decline towards the end of the year State but also throughout the Common­ with the end of the meatworks season. wealth. I am going to deal in particular During the busy meatworks season, when with the unemployment position in my area, overtime is being worked and cattle are that is, the Townsville area. being killed at both works at their top Within a couple of weeks both meatworks capacity, there is a great scramble for there are going to close. I understand that trucks and railway trucks cannot be obtained Merinda also is going to close, and by for cattle. For eight months of the year, the end of the sugar season, in November and this must be reflected in railway finances, or thereabouts, we are going to have at great strings of cattle wagons stand rusting least 1,000 or 1,200 unemployed people in the sidings throughout North Queensland, in Townsville alone. In addition a large because no traffic is available for them. number will be unemployed in Ingham, Ayr, The obvious thing to do is to build up and the Bowen district. the meat industry in Townsville, and other I shall not adopt the role of an Empire areas, so that the meatworks will operate all builder during my speech. I think tlrere the year round or as close as possible to are quite enough Empire builders in the all the year round. Parliaments of Australia. What we need Mr. Wallace: Tell us what you meant are a few more parish-pumpers, because, if when you said the meat industry has been every member of Parliament pushed the allowed to languish. pump for his own area and saw that his own area was being developed, that the people Mr. AIKENS: I am going to tell in a in it were fully employed, we would not moment why the meat industry lras been have to deal with the national aspect of it. allowed to languish. If the meatworks worked all the year round we would have I am certain the Treasurer is deeply con­ the curse of seasonal unemployment removed cerned about the unemployment position. He from us. To do that we want more cattle. would be a political idiot if he were not, That is the answer. We have to devote all because nothing can bring down a govern­ our energies and all our thoughts to getting ment quicker tlran a large and ever-growing more cattle. I doubt if there are any more army of unemployed-and no-one would cattle in North Queensland today than there know it better than the Treasurer. were 20 or 30 years ago. Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 75

Mr. Wallace: Less. of money. Consequently it is an economic Mr. AIKENS: In Queensland probably less, proposition to take these underfed cattle, as the hon. member for Cairns so correctly stall-feed them until they are fat and then interjected. In England, a country about as kill them. If it can be done in Sumatra why large as the Dalrymple Shire, there are more cannot it be done here? cattle than in the whole of Queensland. We Mr. Miiller interjected. must examine the reasons for it to see if we can do as well, if not better in our own State. Mr. AIKENS: The hon. member for Fassifern might know something about a When the meatworks close down next few old speyed Jersey cows that he tries to month in Townsville it will cost, on a con­ milk on his property, but I am talking about s~rvative basis, £6,000 a week to keep them the big grazing lands of the State about which closed, because certain maintenance has to he knows virtually nothing. be done and employees retained. That £6,000 a week for maintenance and upkeep for the Opposition members interjected. eight months of the slack season has to be borne by the industry during the four Mr. AIKENS: Of course, if hon. members months when the works are in operation. opposite, the city slickers, are going to deal That is a simple economic fact. In addition, with this matter flippantly and facetiously, I during the long lay-off, about 1,000 men in am not responsible for that. I am trying to Townsville get £6 a week unemployment put forward a plan that many men in the insurance, on the average, which is a pitiful North are talking about at present. They did allowance and quite inadequate to enable not get the idea from me. I am honest enough them to live decently. That £6,000 a week to say that I got most of my ideas from them. has to come out of the taxpayers' pockets. Let me tell the Committee what the position So, if we can have the meatworks operating is on an ordinary cattle station today. I will all the year round by the simple expedient of give the figures as they have been given to me producing more cattle, then we relieve the so that hon. members will know that I at meatworks of the £6,000 a week in the slack least have done something about it. On an season and we also relieve the taxpayers of ordinary cattle property today they have the burden of £6,000 a week in order to keep their No. 1's that is, this year's cattle. the unemployed in a pitiful state of mere They have their No. O's; that is, last existence. year's. They have their No. 9's; that is the 1959 branding. They have their No. 8's, Mr. Miiller: That is very nice. How are you which is the 1958 branding. Those will going to do it? probably be sold as fats in 1962 as long as 1962 is not a drought year and they can be Mr. AIKENS: I am going to tell the hon. sold as fats. Conse'quently, it is taking four member if he will listen, and if he has the and five years to fatten a beast under the ability to absorb it. present set-up in North Queensland. We have heard a great deal about the Mr. Wallace: No, that is not right. wet coastal scrub lands and I am fully in accord with it. I am very pleased to hear Mr. AIKENS: The graziers tell me that. that in recent months, now that the Federal They fatten a beast up to a yearling and election is coming on, men who have he starts to lose condition about July and slandered, abused, and vilified me for sup­ continues to do so until the end of the porting it are now supporting the idea of year. They fatten him again the next year cattle fattening in the wet tropical scrub and he loses condition from July to lands and are behind the scheme until Christmas. They fatten him the third year after the election. I am not going to talk and again the fourth year, and about the about the cattle-fattening proposition in our fifth year, if he is fat, they will sell him coastal scrub lands because I have dealt with as a heavy bullock. And I will quote the it very adequately in other addresses in this prices at Cannon Hill only last week for Chamber. I am going to point out that it is a heavy bullocks-four to five years old, matter again of simple economics, that if we 700 lb. weight, £8 10s. to £8 15s. a 100 lb. can get more in cash in beef from a beast Yearlings, average weight about 350 lb., than the cost of feeding it on artificial £10 10s. to £11 a 100 lb. But if you can turn pastures, or even by stall feeding, then it is off four yearlings while you are turning an economic proposition to do so. off one heavy bullock, you will get I have gone to the trouble of reading up £144 for your yearling beasts. If you all I possibly can about it and listening to could turn off only three yearling in the men competent to advise me. I read only the same period as that in which you turned other day about the Vacuum Oil Company in off one heavy bullock you would clear Sumatra, of all places, one of the most £115 1Os. instead of the £59 1Os. that you backward countries in the world. They are would clear for the heavy bullock. called upon to feed an army of employees Let us face up to this fact: the day of and they have found that by taking the poor the big heavy bullock is on the way out underfed cattle-virtually skin and bone­ and the day of the frozen beef is on the and stall-feeding them, they can put more way out. So we have to cater for the onto a beast in meat, in terms of money, growing demand of our home market and than the feed they put into the beast in terms the growing demand of our overseas market 76 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

for prime yearling beef, beasts no older than about the industry, consequently when I three years and weighing perhaps from want to know anything, I go to the people 300 lb. to 450 lb. That is what the public who do know and I ask them. wants and that is what the public will pay Sticking strictly to the area that I know, for. from the Herbert River to the Don River, Mr. Newton: Have you given any con­ we have hundreds of thousands of acres of sideration to the cost of stall feeding as arable land between those rivers, and against natural feeding? wherever one looks at the countries of the world one finds that the population is along Mr. AIKENS: This is about the only the river systems. We also have hundreds country in the world-and we say it is of thousands of acres on the Burdekin. an advanced country-where we adopt the Sugar, which has been our main crop, is attitude that we have abundant land, that static. It will not expand any more. As a we are going to rely only on our natural matter of fact, it is causing grave concern grasses and on our natural rainfall. If it amongst heads of the sugar industry as to happens to rain we will have fat cattle. If whether it will be able to hold its own at it does not, we will not have fat cattle. And the present rate. All the land to the west, if the Harrisia cactus or any other pest between Charters Towers and the Belyando, starts to encroach on any particular part is arable land, and between the Belyando and of our land we just shrug our shoulders Clermont there are hundreds of thousands and say, "What does it matter? We have of acres that could be converted to grow plenty more land. We won't bother to root better types of grasses and legumes, or even out the Harrisia cactus or deal with the to grow grain for stock, if the stock are weed pest. We will shift the cattle to where brought to it. we have plenty more land and grass. As There again we strike the economic prob­ long as it rains and as long as we get lem-how is it going to be done?. The a decent drop of calves we will be all right." graziers say, "We cannot afford to put our The curse of this country in the past has land under pasture. We cannot afford to put been that we have had far too much land our land under grain crops," although many and it has been wasted. We have grown graziers in the North are doing it. For up in an atmosphere of laissez faire; "what example, my old mate Joe Salatina outside does it matter?" It was good enough for Hughenden is doing it, and at other places our grandfathers and good enough for our they are growing it on the river flats. They fathers and it is good enough for us. We are gradually beginning to realise that they have got to face up to the fact that we cannot rely on the natural rainfall and the have a growing population in Australia and natural grasses. a growing demand for meat throughout the Mr. Miiller: You are on very sound ground world as the standard of living of other now. countries improves. If we want to survive, particularly in towns like Townsville and Mr. AIKENS: If the hon. member had Cairns, we have to meet the growing demand kept quiet long enough I should have been for meat. on sound ground earlier. Whenever one goes The hon. member for Belmont asks if to them, some raise the parrot cry that was we know how much it costs to feed a beast. raised by the hon. member for Belmont a I know it is uneconomic to grow lucerne moment ago-"lt is not an economic propo­ here or grain crops-sorghum, maize, or sition." We have to show them how it can whatever you want-and cart it 1,000 miles become an economic proposition. or 700 miles, even at starving-stock rates, I think the whole grazing set-up in Queens­ to feed cattle. It is certainly uneconomic land should be completely reoriented. Some­ to cart it 700, 800 or 1,000 miles to feed times I think we have been too proud and stock to fatten them. But in other countries too vain to learn from countries that we yo_u do not take the feed to the stock, you consider backward. In every other country bnng the stock to the feed, and that is in the world there is the closest possible what we have to do here. liaison between the pastoral industry and the agricultural industry. Here they are two Mr. WaHace: You did not tell us that entirely separate and distinct departments. a minute ago. Mr. Hiley: They are growing together now. Mr. AIKENS: The hon. member did not listen. He is like the Minister for Labour Mr. AIKENS: If they are growing together, and Industry. He talks first and thinks they are not growing together fast enough, afterwards, and sometimes he does not think and my appeal to this Chamber is to acceler­ at all. ate the co-operation that must exist between the farmers and the graziers, if I might put Mr. Wallace interjected. it that way and put it plainly, if this country is to survive as a beef-producing country. Mr. AIKENS: I am unlike the hon. mem­ I know that some people say it is not ber for Cairns who spent all his time learnino economical to stall feed, but it can be to cut up shin beef and pass it off on th~ economically done here too. This could be unsuspecting housewife as fillet and because done, and this is purely my own sw.(gestion: of that he claims to know all about the let the State Government and the Common­ cattle industry. I do not know everything wealth Government draw up a plan for the Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 77 best utilisation of our coastal land. We have With the improved pasture !an~ and t?e heard of course, that it is quite possible, with grassland that has been turned mto gram­ the use of trace elements and so on, to utilise growing land, in a few years' time we shall the Wallum country, but I am talking about have to build up our breeders and store the readily available arable land between the cattle but all of this can be arranged on a Herbert River and the Don River and out broad plan. It is something that. J?eeds a as far as the Belyando, almost to Clermont. little bit of vision and courage. VISion and Artificial grasses can be planted there, grain courage are all that limit the plan. can be grown, and we can overcome the An Opposition Member: And money. financial or economic problem that presents itself by co-ordination between the Common­ Mr. AIKENS: I am sure the Common­ wealth Government and the State Govern­ wealth Government will make the unem­ ment. What is the matter with this plan: ployed relief money available. The State by Christmas 1,000 men in Townsville will will make up the rest to pay the award rates be drawing unemployment relief at £6 a applicable to the industry. The Government week. will get additional rent from the les.sees who An Opposition Member: After next week. will benefit in the long run by the Improved turnoff from their pastures. In a few years' Mr. AIKENS: By Christmas, when the time because of the additional cattle that sugar industry finishes, they will be there. will be turned off from this scheme and the Some, of course, will be drawing £49 a week. rain forest country-and the scheme could and they will be unemployed, they will not continue right down to the Central area­ be in Townsville, but round about Brisbane. the meatworks will be kept going all the year Let the State Government say to the Com­ round so that the scourge of seasonal unem­ monwealth Government, "Give us that ployment to a great extent will have been £6,000 a week. We will put in the rest removed from North Queensland and Central of the money to make up the wages under Queensland. the award applicable for this particular job. We will go to the graziers in all of these Mr. Miiller: I will give you a reference to areas after the whole scheme has been the Treasurer and suggest that he appoint planned out. We will say to the lessees, you as director. if they are holding leases of the land, and Mr. AIKENS: I wish the hon. member to the freeholders holding freehold land, could I will not say that I would do better We are going to enter your land, plough it than 'the hon. member for Fassifern but I up, and do what we think is necessary to be hope I would do as well. I am very happy done to it in order to root out the natural that as a practical cattleman he at le~st grasses, and then plant fresh grasses a?d does agree with most of what I have said. legumes. If necessary we will plant gram. Unless we take a broad and courageous We are going to improve that land, not to view in our desire to grapple with the produce one beast to 15 acres, the present unemployment problem, unless we take a average, but perhaps one beast to 1 acre broad, courageous and long-term view or one beast to 1! acres." towards increasing cattle numbers . and Mr. Muller: Good business. increasing the number of fat cattle avmla?le for slaughter in Queensland, we are gomg Mr. AIKENS: It is good business. Once to have a sickening recurrence every year the lessees see that their natural glassland of hundreds of unemployed walking the is going to be transformed into pasture land streets of the State's northern aJ?d ceJ?tral and grain-growing land, they will be quite cities and towns. Let us have a little. bit of content to pay the extra rental commen­ courage and vision and let u~ deal with the surate with the extra cattle they will carry job as it should be dealt with. and turn off. The freeholders will be pre­ pared to pay the cost of these improvements (Time expired.) over a long period and recoup it a:s a result Mr. DAVIES (Maryborough) (4:5 p.m.): of the extra cattle they will turn off. Con­ It is clearly evident that the whips have sequently in the long run the State will be cracked once again and that members of the able to recoup itself for all the money it Government team have been forbidden to take will have to spend on transforming all this part in this debate. It appears that only the natural grassland into pasture land or grain­ Treasurer will take part. Last year, several growing land. The national wealth of the hon. members on the Government side of the country will have been added to, to the tune Chamber spoke in this debate but, so far as of several millions of pounds a year by I am at present aware, not one speaker apart reason of the extra cattle grown and turned from the Treasurer will rise and discuss the off fat every year. The unemployed will not problems of this State in the. present deb.ate. be unemployed-if I may use an Iricism­ It is quite evident the Prel!uer has reahs~d but they shall be found work during the that it is too dangerous, with so many dis­ slack seasons until the plan is complete. turbing elements in the party. With so many They will have been found work at awa~d groups the wrong thing might be said a~d rates and conditions and some of them Will the attention of the Chamber and the pubhc work right through the year on the trans­ drawn to problems-- formation of this land. It will provide relief for the temporary unemployment problem. Mr. Hiley: The same old stuff. 78 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. DAVIES: The Treasurer may interject Mr. DAVIES: The men are willing and as he likes, but so far he is the only speaker eager to do everything possible to assist this on his side to take part in this debate. Is it company to produce more ships and to any wonder with his record of deficits? It secure further orders that the Common­ was claimed that the Government would wealth Government are placing overseas in prove themselves to be expert financiers but Hong Kong, West Germany and other what is their record? The railway deficit for countries. the three years prior to the last one totals slightly more than the total deficit in the There have been interruptions at the Evans previous decade of administration by the Deakin shipyard. I am not blaming the present Leader of the Opposition. More men for that, but they have been more people are drifting from the State than are numerous than those at Walkers Ltd. Inter­ coming into it; there is chaos in the transport ruptions have occurred at the dockyards in system, a record low in Forestry plantings, Newcastle. Recently there was a strike and record bankruptcies, less industries in most industrial trouble about overtime. A man coastal cities now than under Labour and was sacked and the otlrer men walked out, record unemployment since depression days; but that has not prevented the Newcastle soaring costs of living under a Government shipyards from getting adequate orders and politically related to those who in 1949 said so providing full employment for their men. they would restore value to the pound. The same remarks apply to other ship­ Primary producers today are receiving a yards in Australia. I challenge the Minister smaller percentage of the national income to say that there is more industrial trouble under a Country Party-Liberal Government in Queensland shipyards than in southern than they were in 1948-1949 under the shipyards. The employees in the Sydney, Chifley Government. The sawmil!ing indus­ Whyalla and Williamstown shipyards have try is in the doldrums, there are housing been told that if they do not toe the line shortages and now the latest setback is a cut and get to work the shipowners will send in subsidies. Those are some features of the their orders to shipyards in Queensland, but picture before the public in this State today. we know also that in the South there has Before passing on to other aspects of the been a greater willingness to have confer­ debate I wish to deal with a statement made ences with the unions and the men. The by the Deputy Premier in the House this result has been a better understanding between morning in regard to the possibilities of the men and the employers. The men in securing orders and the possibility of the those industries know that the same position Deputy Premier persuading the Common­ will continue in the future, that they will have wealth Government to see that the State's continuity of employment. In the South there most important shipyards are kept in opera­ have been negotiations, conciliation and tion. round-table conferences. The Whyalla men receive 10 per cent. more than the basic On behalf of the workers of Walkers Ltd. wage, that is, £2 1Os. more than the employees I resent the smearing, contemptible, irre­ in the Evans Deakin shipyard. The men in sponsible, trouble-making attack upon the the Newcastle dockyards receive approxi­ workers in that industry. The Minister for mately £3 more than their counterparts in Labour and Industry has proved himself Queensland. The difficulties in Queensland throughout his few years of administration to are encouraged by the State Government be determined to disturb the industrial peace and the department led by the Minister for of this State, and his action this morning in Labour and Industry. The employees in the drawing the attention of the public to trouble, Brisbane shipyards are often faced with a if there had been trouble-and I will deny refusal to negotiate or conciliate on the it for Walkers shipyards over the last 12 requests and demands of the men. months or so-can only do incalculable harm at the present time. If he was really inter­ The union is opposed to overtime only ested in the welfare of this industry and when it deprives unemployed men of the industry generally in the State, he would opportunity to work. When overtime does cover it up, if there was anything to be not interfere with the employment of unem­ covered up. As Minister for Labour and ployed men, the employees are prepared Industry in this State he should be adopting to work overtime. an attitude of defiance to the Commonwealth Any industrial trouble in this State has Government, one of opposition if necessary. been justified. If the Minister for Labour What was the attitude adopted by the and Industry wants to get down to person­ Premier and Treasurer? Not the socalled alities and intolerance among unionists, fierce tactics of former Premiers and where would we get a greater example Treasurers, but mild attacks on the Common­ than the advocate for the employers in the wealth Government's failure to provide shipbuilding industry? financial help and an atmosphere of The Minister this morning deliberately "We had a jolly good time together and evaded the question. It is quite evident that a cup of tea and a sandwich, and that is the he has not made any definite approach to end of it." No shipyard in Australia has a the Comonwealth Government on behalf of better industrial record than Walkers Ltd. Walkers Ltd. He has adopted the attitude A.L.P. Members: Hear, hear! of the Premier to the Burdekin scheme. The Supply (24 AUGUST] Supply 79 hon. member, representing that district, is part. I put this question to the Government: not in the Chamber, but I remind hon. will Hong Kong or West Germany build ships members of the attitude of the Government for us during wartime? No, they will not, to the Burdekin scheme, even the attitude they will be built at Walkers' shipyards. of the Treasurer. He is getting round to There were 400 to 500 men working in the taking over the role of some of the other shipyards; there are only a few left now. Cabinet Ministers. I can understand it The last ship is finished and has been because it is in accordance with the Premier's launched and there is no ship on the boards, desire, in view of the failure of many no ship is being planned. We can see no sign members of the Cabinet to make a success of of any ship in the near future being built by their departments. The Treasurer, to a the shipyards which means that every man in considerable extent lately, has been making those yards will be out of work. Indeed, statements about the Department of Irriga­ many men have sought employment in other tion. l draw the attention of the hon. shipyards in answer to advertisements by member for Burdekin to the fact that the various firms in Newcastle and Port Kembla. Treasurer recently said the Burdekin scheme One of the most unfortunate features is that was a classic example of an utter white we have lost experienced employees who elephant. The Premier said last year that have been there for years. I have been told he would not again approach the Common­ that Walkers Ltd. and Evans Deakin can wealth Government. He approached the produce ships of better quality than those Commonwealth Government about that built in the South. I will not enter into that. scheme when he came into office, but later I am content to say that we can build them said he would not appeal to them again for equally as good as they can be built in the information or further investigation of the southern States. It is a great misfortune that scheme because lie realised it was hopeless the Commonwealth Government are not to do so. The Minister for Labour and disturbed because one of the two shipyards Industry has apparently adopted the same in this State is going out of action. I attitude on the possibility of securing further emphasise that if it is necessary in peacetime orders for Walkers Ltd. I asked him to to keep an Air Force, the Army and the comment on the fact that orders for ships Navy then it is equally essential to keep our that could have been given to Walkers Ltd. shipyards going. If the Government can have been placed in overseas countries. subsidise the dairying industry and other Recently Sir Hubert Opperman, the Minister industries, why should they not subsidise this for Shipping, was in Maryborough and he one? Why has not the Minister for Labour said a great deal, but really nothing, and he and Industry made an appeal for a subsidy made many promises. to be paid on ships under 500 tons? If Walkers Ltd. could get a series of 500-tonners A Government Member interjected. or less it would be a tremendous help. If two Mr. DAVIES: The hon. member will not of them were being constructed at the same have many more chances to talk in this time that would be much better than having Chamber because he will not be here much grass growing in the shipyards as it is at the longer. present time. Walkers Ltd. is a financial firm with big investments and it pays regular The man who forced Sir Hubert Opperman dividends. If the works needed to be modern­ to make a statement was the Deputy Leader ised or improved in any way it would be up of the Opposition in the Federal Parliament, to the Commonwealth Government to and Mr. Opperman admitted that several guarantee the finance and then guarantee a vessels of a size that could have been built continuity of orders so that this firm could at Walkers had been built overseas. If it is come in and do any necessary modernisation. necessary to have shipyards in this country The Minister for Labour and Industry would during wartime it is necessary to keep them have been much better advised this morning going in peacetime, even if it costs more to to raise his voice in a plea to the Treasurer help them. The Commonwealth Government and other Minister in his Government to do and the shipowners have time to plan ahead something about barges and dredges that will and organise. The Commonwealth Govern· surely be required in the years to come. ment should know well ahead what ships will need to be built and all the necessary plan­ The Minister constantly uses that as one of ning could be done a long time before they his arguments why this Government have are needed. Two small naval vessels have been successful. He says, "Look what we been ordered from overseas. We have been have done for the harbours! We are provid­ told, that because of some aluminium work ing this and we are providing that." Surely on the ships, they could not be built in the extra work must be a great strain upon Australia. Australian workmen can meet the the dredges and barges in Queensland. They demands of the industry in any shape or form. must be strained to the utmost and it must If there is a shortage of technicians in any be necessary to order a vessel-a barge or a branch we can do what we have done in the dredge, which! would provide work for past. We can bring them out to Australia and Walkers Ltd. to keep them going. The get them to teach our workmen who are quite Minister would have been better advised able to learn. If, for some reason, a part can­ this morning to speak along those lines not be built here, we can build the hull and all and show that he was conscientiously the other parts and then install the imported endeavouring to help, instead of indulging 80 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

in his own union hatred, and raising the issue with the Commonwealth Government? Communist bogey about disturbing the peace The matter will be raised in a subsequent among unionists. He himself causes dis­ debate. Are the Government doing everything turbances by the very provocative nature of possible to raise the necessary finance for the his speeches, which the men in Walkers Ltd. State? A Bill is soon to come before us to must read in the Press. If an attitude of lighten the burden on the payer of land tax. resentment exists among the men of Walkers I will not enter into the merits of that Ltd. or generally among the workers of legislation, but when men have to exist on Maryborough he must accept some responsi­ £6 2s. 6d. a week, is it necessary to reduce bility for it. what the payer of land tax has to pay? If it is £10,000, £50,000, or '\vhatever it is, it all Mr. Duggan: His Ministerial colleague, adds up and it would provide extra work for Mr. Munro, is an ex-director of Walkers Ltd. people in the State. The Government have Mr. DAVIES: Yes, and he would be now not shown any interest in the development of if it were not for some rule about what they Queensland. They are content to drift along. did with their shares. They adopt the attitude, "Things are not too bad," not seeing the dangers that lie ahead. The CHAffiMAN: Order! They will even back the Federal Government at the forthcoming Federal election. Recently Mr. DAVIES: Yes, Mr. Taylor, I will not the Commonwealth Government obtained an go into that now. Hynes and Wilson Hart's overseas loan of £75,000 from the Inter­ and others in the sawmilling industry will national Monetary Fund and a guarantee of appear before any group of people and say £40,000, if necessary, to be made available that the quality of workmanship among the at a later stage. The A.L.P. fears the men in their industry-and there are 700 or dangers arising from the terms and condi­ 800 of them-is equal to any in Australia, tions that those various loans from the yet this slur has been cast upon the quality International Monetary Fund may have of work and the interest of those men in attached to them. I will leave that for a their jobs at the shipyards. Those men have future debate. I am very happy indeed to their homes there. They are not floaters. have registered my protest. They are not drifters. They are keen on obtaining work and they are doing everything The CHAffiMAN: The hon. the Treasurer. possible to keep it. On Saturdays they are working long hours. They are doing all that Mr. Houston: Aren't there any other they can to help the firm provide the boats speakers from your side? on time. Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth­ Keeping in mind the various arguments I Treasurer and Minister for Housing) (4.26 have advanced, I claim that this morning p.m.), in reply: If there are any other the Minister showed a lack of interest in the speakers from the other side of the Chamber, welfare of the industry. The Commonwealth I will gladly defer to them. That is a Government are falling down on the job, too. silly statement to make. We would have They have the power, under the Acts that I had speakers from this side if hon. members have listed in the past, to provide that all opposite had not wasted an hour of our ships used on the Australian coast must be time this morning in asking innumerable built in Australian shipyards, for defence questions, the answers to most of which come reasons if for no other. before the House in reports. When hon. members opposite learn how to use question I am very pleased indeed to have had this opportunity. I regret the circumstances. I am time and stop wasting time, they will get greater participation in debates by Govern­ pleased that I have had the opportunity on behalf of the decent, good, honest Australian ment members. workers in Walkers Ltd. to protest against the Mr. Duggan: I am not referring to you, contemptible smear tactics of the Minister for but there are some Ministers who are most Labour and Industry. discourteous in their replies. I asked a question about the amount the Mr. Houston: Give us reports and you Commonwealth Department of Supply spent won't get questions. in Queensland. I have the figures for 1957- 1958 and for 1958-1959. This Government The CHAIRMAN: Order! did not know the figures. They had no interest in them. Of the £60,000,000 spent by that Mr. HILEY: I am grateful to the Com­ department in 1957-1958, £32,000,000 was mittee for the way in which it has received spent in Victoria, £14,000,000 in New South this measure. There are a few points to Wales, £12,000,000 in South Australia and which I should like to reply. £500,000 in Queensland. In 1958-1959 The Leader of the Opposition raised the another £500,000 or a little more was spent question of the Committee on loan raisings. in Queensland. I have not the exact figures for It is quite true that I was extremely interested the last two years but I will have them in in the formation of that committee. It has time for the Budget debate. They are similar. had one meeting, which was held immediately So Queensland has had only £500,000 as its before the last meeting of the Loan Council. share of the £60,000,000 spent by that depart­ It has not completed its deliberations, but ment. Have this Government ever raised this already it has succeeded in persuading Supply [24 AUGUST] Supply 81 movement in the direction that has always the slight headway :ve have n:ade. I asked strongly appealed to me. I think I have that in the preparatiOn of their loan adver­ mentioned it already, and I think the Leader tisements, the Commonwealth Go~ernment of the Opposition knows how keen I am on should make a special feature of this to see it. I have always thought it was quite whether it would bring in people who have unfair that governments should say to not been in the habit of investing in citizens, "Lend us your money," and then, Commonwealth bonds. if that citizen happens to die, refuse to Concerning the observations made about acknowledge our own securities in the hands the Common Market I find myself in com­ of the executors on a secure and marketable plete agreement with the fA:ad_er of the basis. The result has been that far too many Opposition's basic plea that this IS a matter people have been soured by their experience calling for careful, close and informed study in not being able to have that money avail­ on this side of the world as well as on the able until they first obtained money some­ other. The effect is not confined to here. I where else to enable them to get a grant agree that it could have serious effects here. of probate and then having to take the figure Just as we have a very definite interest in of the market at the moment, and in some retaining assured markets and continuing cases take a discount, thus offsetting the prices for many of our e;x:portabl~ produ~ts, general rule of domestic practice that, if I so we have a very deep mterest m ensunng owe you money and you owe me money, that our agreements are made with strong on an arithmetical basis whoever owes the and virile customers. That is the other side other more pays the difference. I pressed of the argument that worries me. I think with the committee that Commonwealth it was the hon. member for Carnarvon who bonds should be accepted by both Common­ referred to the fact that over recent years wealth and State Governments at face value British production has been standing still for the payment of probate and succession while numbers of the Common Market duties. I believe that if this was acknow­ countries have been surging ahead. Let me ledged it would bring in a vast new field tell the Committee what was said at a little of support. People who are not presently dinner party given to launch the entry here inclined to support the bond market would of a big English firm in association with .an do so because they would see in it a prac­ old-established Queensland business. Talkmg tical and tangible manner of preparing for to the Premier and me over the dinner table, their death. It would be a comfort to the the English head of that business, a firm that executors to find that among the assets of had been in existence well over 100 years, the deceased were some acceptable securities told us that one of their best markets on the that could be taken in at an absolutely Continent was Italy. With the exception of secure price. We did not succeed in getting war intervention they had held that market that viewpoint accepted completely, but it decade after decade, almost back to the days has been accepted that the class of Common­ of Napoleon. At the moment the duty on wealth bond known as special bonds is an their product into Italy is 4St per cent. As ideal instrument for this purpose, and in the a member of the European Common Market Commonwealth loan, details of which will their duty would be 19 per cent. That is not be announced shortly, there will be special just a shade of advantage; the differ~nce publicity explaining that these special bonds between 19 per cent. and 48t per cent. IS a will be accepted from executors on the great unbridgeable gulf. He told us that shortest of notice at a guaranteed price by since the development of the European both State and Federal Governments for the Common Market their trade with Italy has payment of succession duties. I might say been dwindling to nothing while people in the that it will also explain that there is a same line of business in Frankfurt, Germany, limit of £10,000 for each estate, and I think have gleefully taken advantage of what has that sum will meet the biggest proportion of been their market for all those years. You Australian deceased estates, and I cannot can take that story, and wit!J. d_iffer~nt see for the life of me any good in confining arithmetic find the same moral m direction the principle to £10,000. after direction. What worries me on the one Mr. Houston: It will cover the estates of hand is that I see a need to do all we can the unemployed quite easily. to protect both quantitativ~ly and price~w~se our established markets with Great Bntam. Mr. HILEY: It will cover them all right. There is no question about that: But a:n the Hon members opposite were the only people other hand thinking of the IllustratiOn I to tax them. gave the C~mmittee, is not Britain's cap~city Mr. Houston: Can't they be cashed at a to buy from us going to be progressively discount in six months? destroyed? That is the tightrope we all have to walk. It is not the problem of any one Mr. HILEY: They can, but this can be political party or group of people i~ Aus~~alia. done immediately. I think the Common­ It is a problem for every Australian citizen. wealth Government would be wise to go further than the £10,000 limit. If a man I must confess that I also find myself in works out that he will have to pay £50,000 considerable agreement with what th_e Leader why not encourage him to put ~50 ,000 of the Opposition said about th.e Wisdom of into Commonwealth loans and leave ~t t_here pursuing every possible opportumty to develop until he dies? I pass that on to md1cate trade in the Pacific area. As I look at some 82 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply of the difficulties that confront some of our Mr. HILEY: I think that when it comes best exports I cannot help but think that if to world trade, the wider, the more fluent only the standard of living of some of these and multilateral world trade can be Pacific peoples were different I would not organised, the greater contribution is made worry too much if we lost our position in to world peace. If you freely trade with the European market and tried to sell all our people you lessen the prospect of inter­ products in the Pacific area. Take one classic national difficulty. example. Take the example of Great Britain because this relates to beef. I know that we So, I am in agreement with the Leader are told repeatedly from England that the of the Opposition that the European Com­ customer in England wants chilled beef and mon Market is a matter for dilligent study does not want our frozen beef. We accept by us all. Do not let us only narrowly try that. We know it is difficult first of all to to protect our agreement with the Mother bring forward the type of cattle for the Country. Let us have some regard for the chiller trade with regularity and that it is capacity of the Mother Country to be a not a bit of good our hoping to command a worthwhile customer, but let us at the same regular market in Great Britain if we have time angle for possible trade on other mar­ plenty of chiller beef coming forward for kets. As I see it, the nearer Pacific area is four months of the year and none for eight an altogether logically better area to develop months. We have to flatten out our produc­ our trade. tion so that we are in business from January Mr. Wallace: That is what should have to December if we really want to hold a been done long ago. place in the chiller beef trade in Great Britain. Mr. HILEY: The hon. member for Car­ I will cite one example this year. I was narvon dealt with the subsidy change as told this by the manager of one of our if it was a bolt from the blue. All I export works on the coast. He was a tireless can say is that in all fairness and honesty advocate for the chiller beef trade and he I did my utmost to give local authorities tells this one against himself. He said that and hon. members a picture of what was he got chiller type cattle from all over the coming. It is quite true that I did not place, organised the flow, stopped other types pin up a schedule and say, "These will be from coming forward, killed hard, and got the rates two years hence." them onto the ship. He got it home to Two years ago I attended the local England in good time to find that two authority conference and mentioned then the ~rgentine ships had beaten him to the pattern of rising subsidy demand. I said, market by 48 hours. It got there with "If this continues to grow, a cut in rates only a few days left. As hon. members will be inevitable." know, there is a limit on travelling time for chilled beef. He found the market covered Mr. Hanlon: At that time, according to tl:re with Argentine beef only 48 hours ahead of Press, you did stress that you wanted to keep him, and he said they had to freeze the up sewerage and water supply subsidies. They whole of the beef because the price for have not been cut savagely, but they have chilled beef was 4d. below that for frozen been reduced. beef. Mr. HILEY: I am not conscious of having Whilst that may be a rare instance, it is used that expression, but those are still the one difficulty. Just think how much easier two most generous rates on the list. it would be if the changing pattern of Asian standards of life would enable us to trade In my Budget speech 12 months ago I with a market not 25 to 30 days by sea referred pointedly to the growth of subsidies transport away from us, but 10 to 15 days and I indicated they would not be cut in by sea transport away from us. the year under announcement, but it was perfectly clear that there was an intention That is why I welcome this mission now to cut them. Tl:rat was clearly expressed in travelling round the Pacific Islands. People the Budget speech, and I invite hon. members may sneer and say, "What can Noumea, to study the words used on that occasion. Fiji, or the Pacific Islands offer by way of a market for __Australian goods?" I still say Mr. Hanlon: Did you mention at this that in the Pacific area we might find a real year's conference the possibility of further opportunity for future development in the cuts in two years? Did you give that next generation. Asia is coming to life; warning? its standard of living is rising. Although there are hundreds of millions of people Mr. HILEY: I told those attending the there, their standard of living is too low-- conference something I did not mention this morning. I told them that rising interest Mr. Thackeray: Do you favour trade with rates could cause subsidies to taper, that a Communist China? collapse in the present organisation of trans­ Mr. HILEY: Yes, I think it is acceptable. port in the State could have such an effect on the State's revenue as to cause subsidies to Mr. Thackeray: I agree with you, but some collapse completely. Apart from that, I was members of the Liberal Party don't agree asked pointedly from the floor about it and with you. I replied that in my judgment the rates were Supply [24 AuousT] Supply 83 clear enough now for another couple of Mr. Davies: They are definitely bound to years and that I did not think it would be make the money available somehow? necessary to look at them again in that period. That did not mean that they were Mr. HILEY: The exchange of corres­ going to be cut after that time. I have pondence clearly establishes that, but then its already indicated that we are faced with final term has to be settled. We say a tire problem of meeting high interest rates on sinking fund entitlement is ours as a matter new borrowings, and high interest rates when of constitutional right. It is not a matter for decision at all. We say it is settled by renewing old borrowings. I said that that the Australian constitution. We say it is a could have an adverse effect. I am not borrowing by the State. They say it is a permitted to tell you the position at the Section 96 grant repayable, bearing interest, moment but I can say that in the next few and they say it is not a loan and not a days hon. members will see the first sign borrowing. We say quite frankly that if that of a welcome movement down in interest argument succeeds the English language has rates. It will be trifling but nevertheless lost all its meaning. If I say, "Here is £1,000; welcome, and if that trend continues, I you have not borrowed it, but you have to should say there is no danger of further pay it back and you have to pay me interest reductions in subsidies in the foreseeable on it," if that is not a borrowing, then, future. I repeat, the English language has lost all Mr. Burrows: Do you see any prospect of its meaning. It is a technical argument that local authorities getting alternative sources a repayable grant under Section 96 is excluded to replenish funds? from Section 104A of the Constitution. It is a financial agreement under which the Mr. HILEY: I am going to come to tlrat sinking fund entitlement is not a matter of matter. course or a gift. It is a matter of sheer constitutional right under the financial agree­ The hon. member for Carnarvon asked ment where the several States of Australia about special help for Queensland. He forwent their independent borrowing rights inquired as to what was said at the Loan and in return the Commonwealth did two Council meeting. The Loan Council is a things: it agreed to take no more than 20 per body representative of the Governments of cent. of the total loan pool of Australia and all Australian States and it does not deal in addition it undertook to contribute to a with special claims by an individual State. sinking fund out of its resources on all State That matter is not one that is raised at the borrowings. That was the bargain that was Loan Council meeting. Matters suclr as that made and we believe the bargain should are raised directly between Premier and cover Mount Isa. Prime Minister. I do not want to cover all Mr. Burrows: In other words, if the the ground covered in the Budget, but in Commonwealth Government cannot be the Budget two matters will be clearly set out. forced to pay they are not likely to give The first one, and hon. members have the it to you? story, is that £1,000,000 has been secured. At the present time State and Federal officers Mr. HILEY: They have made it very clear are negotiating for a further extension of that they will not. it. A start has been made on the road from Mr. Hanlon: It is a rather harsh attitude Julia Creek to Normanton, that is, the first towards Queensland by the sound of it. section of it. Discussions are taking place on the continuation of that road to Norman­ Mr. HILEY: At least, on this question of ton and down to Karumba. There is another help for Queensland I think this year will one from Mt. Surprise. It runs transversely be the most significant ever. This will not across Cape York Peninsula. It is in the give enough to the State. The Premier area of Mt. Surprise to Mt. Garnett. The and I believe that the terms are still not third one is down the Georgina Channel good enough. We may be like Oliver Twist, wanting more, but we do not think so. We from Mt. Isa to Boulia. Those three roads believe the State has a fair and reasonable are at present under discussion, so that the claim to all the things we are asking for, £1,000,000 that has been secured could in but in fairness we will have to recognise our judgment grow to five or six times that that this year will be the most significant figure. In addition, and this was answered year yet for Commonwealth aid to Queens­ by the Premier this morning, the Mount Isa land. figure of £20,000,000 is also a sinking fund entitlement. We believe, as a matter of con­ Now to the hon. member for Townsville stitutional right, that we are entitled to it, South's question in relation to beef: all I but the Commonwealth believe, as a matter can say is that this Government are absolutely convinced that there is a revolution occur­ of constitutional law, that we are not entitled ring in beef production under our very eyes. to it. We are trying to have tlrat resolved. It is quite true that there is not a great deal Mr. Hanlon: They are not going to give us of it visible in the Far North. To reinforce any direct out of their own revenue? this argument let me say that better scientific land usage is brought about only as the pres­ Mr. HILEY: If we win the argument, they sure of population strengthens. When the will have to. If we lose, they will not have population is broad and scattered we do not to. get good husbandry. It is only when we 84 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

get more people that we get a more active Mr. HILEY: Without the hon. member's and intelligent use of the land, and that is beating himself into any frenzy over the the pattern of what is happening. I suggest past, give Peak Downs, with all its ~ifficulties, to the hon. member that he arranges on one some .credit; it did have good pomts. week-end to go out to the eastern Maranoa, on the eastern fringe of the hon. member !VIr. Burrows: That is the fairest criticism for Balonne's electorate, start from Tara and I have heard from your side or your party. go to Meandarra, Surat and St. George, and come out through Condamine. At this !VIr. HILEY: Take in turn the sort of work moment he will see not hundreds, but thou­ going on at Brian Pastures and Belmont sands, and tens of thousands of acres of and other places and add to that the ";'Ork fodder crops, where the brigalow has been being done by the C.S.I.R.O research statiOns pulled, and where oats and barley have been on individual properties, plus individual work planted and the cattle are feeding off these like that on Shaw's property in the hon. winter cereals as fodder supplements. If he member's own area, where there has been wants another interesting trip, let him go to some excellent work done. Then go to Arcturus Downs in Central Queensland Numbank at Taroom in the Roma electorate. where they are doing the very thing he spoke All over the place you will find men devoting about. They are growing the sorghum on time and money and effort to research the property and moving the cattle to where and they are doing something of incalculable the grain is produced. They are grain-lot help to their neighbours and of benefit to feeding in measured doses over a set period. the State. Let us be thankful for every bit of it. It is helping to promote this revolu­ Mr. Burrows: That is possible at Arcturus tion. My colleagues and I are quite clear Downs, and it is the only way, because of that grain-lot feeding, pastures and crops the very high freight cost to get the grain to will revolutionise beef production in the market. State. They will take varied forms in dif­ ferent localities. You cannot do in the hot !VIr. HILEY: That is right. Grain-lot North what you can do in the cooler South. feeding will, I think, transfigure grain produc­ tion in areas that are too big to use for !VIr. Burrows: You need only to be con­ grain alone. The freight would kill it if verted on irrigation now and :\:'OU wil.l have you moved the grain but feeding the grain a pretty fair concept of what Is reqmred. on the spot, moving the cattle to it, makes Mr. HILEY: I thought I was converted the freight factor more bearable. That, I on irrigation and I thought I was converting think, will be the pattern of it. I doubt the hon. member, amongst other people, whether in the Far North there will be so much in ploughed fodder crops such as oats because we have found that it is far better and barley because the heat makes the area and far more rewarding to produce water unsuitable for grain production. The pattern to help established settlers who are short of the Far North will be set on pastures­ of it than to try to work the other way, as enriched pastures, special pastures, imported the hon. member's colleagues did with the grass and legumes, which will all play their loss of so much money. That is why we part there. are putting a dam in the Fassifern area to make sure that all those established settlers On a combination of all those things, I along Warrill Creek will have plenty of believe there is a visible revolution in cattle water. production methods happening under our Mr. Hanlon: If you are prepared to forsake very eyes. Do not let us have any fears the rest of the State and build all round the over the apparent slowness of it. I have south-eastern corner, you will do it all right. found that one pioneer will start something in an area and if he succeeds he is better Mr. HILEY: If we had proceeded on the than all that agricultural advisers and all previous pattern we should have had the that Governments can do, because nothing whole State bankrupt. will promote development of that character like neighbours copying one of their own The hon. member for Maryborough raised successful neighbours. the question of some orders for Walkers Ltd. I say to him that if he thinks we on the Mr. Burrows: But it should be the function Government benches take pleasure in the fact of the Government to experiment. that Walkers cannot get orders, he is quite wrong. On a number of occasions we hoped Mr. HILEY: We do. that, on competitive tendering, Wal!

VOTE OF CREDIT, £56,000,000 (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, Clayfield, in the chair) Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth-Treas­ urer and Minister for Housing): I move- "(a) That, towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, for the service of the year 1961-1962, a further sum not exceeding £26,000,000 be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund of Queensland exclusive of the moneys standing to the credit of the Loan Fund Account. "(b) That, towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, for the service of the year 1961-1962, a granted from the Trust and Special Funds. "(c) That, towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, for the service of the year 1961-1962, a further sum not exceeding £20,000,000 be further sum not exceeding £10,000,000 be granted from the moneys standing to the credit of the Loan Fund Account." Motion agreed to. Resolutions reported, received, and agreed to. APPROPRIATION BILL No. 1

ALL STAGES A Bill founded on the Resolutions was introduced and passed through all its stages without amendment or debate. The House adjourned at 5.5 p.m.