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Jeannette Maw: Welcome, everyone. This is Jeannette with Good Vibe University. Super excited to be welcoming Pam Grout to the party today. Hello, Pam.

Pam Grout: Hello, everybody.

Jeannette Maw: We've got, I think, a variety of fun things to play with you today. I did ask around for, "If you could ask Pam Grout anything you could, what would it be?" I've got a variety of eclectic questions. I'm laughing at some of them which I may ask.

Pam Grout: Hey, I love eclectic questions. That sounds fun. I get asked the same questions a lot, so yeah, it'd be fun to have some eclectic ones.

Jeannette Maw: Well, I'm going to take you up on that. Before we dive in though, I thought it would be fabulous for ... I know everyone here knows you from E-Squared but how many here know Pam's E-Cubed. Do we have people who've been through her ... Is it a bestseller yet, Pam? Or, should I say your next bestseller?

Pam Grout: It's on a couple of lists but it hasn't made the New York Times list quite yet. It took E-Squared a little while to do that but we'll see. People seem to like it but it hasn't hit that coveted list quite yet.

Jeannette Maw: I still run into people who are playing with your E-Squared. In fact, I know that when E-Cubed came out it inspired a lot of people to go see what all the stuf was about and they started with E-Squared.

Pam Grout: Yeah.

Jeannette Maw: I know we have some people on the line who might be fairly new to your work, and others who just gobble up every single thing that you share with us. Would you give a little bit of background about yourself and how you're playing in the world?

Pam Grout: Yeah. I'm actually a full-time writer. Well, E-Cubed, when it came out in September, is my 17th book. I do a lot of writing of all kinds. I'm a travel writer, so ... I write bios, sometimes, for PEOPLE Magazine. I do a wide variety of things. I've been a freelance for 20, maybe going on 30, years now. I've used the Law Of Attraction a lot in my work to create this career.

When you're self-employed like this, and I have been for a long time, you have to have a lot of faith and know that your thoughts are doing things. I've been using these principles for a long time. I watch them go, "How did you go from travel writing to writing about this?" It's actually a real natural progression because I have always been interested in these kind of principles.

Jeannette Maw: So, this is something that's been part of your life for as long as you can remember? Or, was there something that introduced you to the concepts of conscious creation?

Pam Grout: I was a student of A Course in . That might be how I first got into it. Even back in the days of reading Norman Vincent Peale, The Power of Positive Thinking, I've been aware of this kind of work for a long time. I've read Think and Grow Rich, so I've been more or less aware of this work for a long time. Like I said, it totally lines up with the way I've always looked at things and the way I've managed my career. So, yeah. I'm not really sure when or how I ... I don't have that moment. Some people will go, "Oh, yeah, this is that moment. It was July 6, 1982," or whatever. I don't have that one thing. I just fell into it or whatever.

Jeannette Maw: You showed up one day.

Pam Grout: You know, the one thing, too, when you're a writer and you really get into the zone, you know when there's this other thing going on, this other , this other force. I think, in some ways, almost all artists or writers will be a little bit aware of this, whether they admit it or not. I would say, as much as anything, that could be how I got into it, just by virtue of my career.

Jeannette Maw: Wow, really interesting. The astrologer in me really wants to see what your birth chart looks like, but we'll save that for another call.

Pam Grout: Hey, I want to know what it looks like, too. Pam Grout interview Page 2 of 22 Jeannette Maw: Oh, okay. That was one of our other questions. What's your spiritual study been? Are there other disciplines that you've engaged that overlap or support your manifesting practice? Or, are you just ...

Pam Grout: Yeah. Again, A Course in Miracles is my main spiritual practice. Although, right now I'm reading this book called The Way of Mastery, and I've decided that I might go through those lessons this year. I'm a continuous student. Even though I write about this stuf, I'm always learning, and always growing and learning new things. I've been a member of a . I don't know if anybody out there is a Unitic, but that is right in line with the law of attraction principle. I've studied that.

I remember, I guess, now that I reflect back, when I first moved to Kansas City, there was The Metaphysical Society of Kansas City. I remember taking a class there, so I guess this has always been on my radar, probably since I was born.

Jeannette Maw: Wow, okay. Well, that makes a lot of sense for how you roll. That was one of the other questions we had, too. What is your manifesting process like? Is it a lot of disciple and commitment, or is it really foot-loose and fancy-free?

Pam Grout: Oh, man. Foot-loose and fancy-free definitely describes me. I believe in the crock pot principle. Just throw it in there and then just let it go, and know that it'll be cooked up when it's time to go. Any more, I so trust in the universe and the fact that the universe has my back, that I almost don't even have to intend all that much. Things just show up.

This is a small, little example. My boyfriend and I were talking yesterday about this couple. He said, "Are they still married?" They've got 4 daughters, we were just talking about that because we hadn't seen them together for a really long time. My daughter and I just walked downtown and had breakfast with cofee or whatever. I ran into them, they're of course, still married. Anything I want to know just somehow shows up. That's not even that big a deal, but the universe is just always providing for me.

Pam Grout interview Page 3 of 22 Once you start looking for signs and blessing, it just happens. It's just a constant way. If I want to know something, well, there it is. It will just pop up on my computer or whatever I need to know. I don't do as much intentional manifesting these days as maybe I did a while back. Again, just trusting that whatever I need is going to show up, because I've had such good luck with that.

Jeannette Maw: Wow, okay. That doesn't sound like you're engaging anything like is. You know how Abraham talks about doing focus wheels? They've described Esther's process in the morning where she basks in appreciation and then makes a list of [rampage 00:06:36] of something-or-other and then she's doing a focus wheel ... To me, it seems like a lot of work, but it seems to be suiting her exceptionally well. It sounds like you're on the other extreme of this.

Pam Grout: Yeah, I'm all about smooth and easy. I think Esther Hicks prays all about smooth and easy, too. You probably heard, I've been talking about this for a long time, my AA 2.0 program. Again, it's smooth and easy. It's 2 steps. It's not like the old AA program, it's 2.0, so it's 2 steps. The first one is, I get up in the morning and I go, "Something amazingly awesome is going to happen to me today." That's pretty easy, that's amazingly awesome, that's AA.

The second thing is, I text blessings to my power posse. I send 3 blessings that have to be diferent, you can't do the same blessing you did yesterday. That's the simple thing that I do, pretty much every day. I do set intentions, then I'll write them in my journal. I love- I'm a writer, so of course I write every single day. I'll jot some things I'm down that I'm thinking about, or something that comes to me. So there is a little bit of a process, but it changes, too. I'm definitely the foot-loose and fancy-free type, for sure.

I really like that thing that you and Michelle [Bauman 00:07:50] had talked about, "set it and forget it". You can start obsessing about it, and then, I think, you start sending the energy in all other directions. I think it's really important that, once you've asked something, once you've made an intention, it already exists. It's there somewhere, but you just have to get on that frequency, as Esther Hicks would call it. I

Pam Grout interview Page 4 of 22 talked about it in E-Squared. You might still be on the second floor and the thing you've intended is up on the 16th floor. You just have to get on the same floor, or get on the same wavelength, get on the same radio dial. However you want to talk about it.

Again, the less you're obsessing about it, the less you're [inaudible 00:08:31], but getting happy like Esther does, that part is really important. I do think being happy and knowing that joy is your natural state ... Which is the first experiment in E-Cubed, without all our cultural training, joy is my natural state. I think that's really important, because once you're on that frequency, everything will work. Everything will just happen so easily once you quit struggling, trying these 7 steps, and doing all this stuf that we all have been taught to do. To work really hard at something. That stuf is backwards, upside down.

Jeannette Maw: I agree. For as much as I've studied myself, often I catch myself trying too hard or putting too much efort around the whole manifesting. I think that's why so many people get frustrated when they say, "Oh, soon as the things I don't care about, or as soon as I give up, that's when it happens." I think it's because there's absolutely no efort involved in it.

Pam Grout: Exactly. Yeah. This force is so good, loves us so much, that it's going to do every single thing we want. But, if we start thinking, "Oh, it's hard," or, "I'd better do this, and this, and that," then it will say, "Okay, do this, and this, and that, and then I'll bring it." It'll fall in line with whatever we're thinking. Anybody can think however they want and they can set that particular framework up in their life, but I'm just one who really ... I don't know, I resonate smooth and easy. Make it simple, because it can be simple, or it can be difcult. You can do it however you want.

Jeannette Maw: I think that might be why someone had written in with the next question I'll ask. But, first, Brenda in chat room is asking, I'm curious, too. "Is regular meditation part of your life?"

Pam Grout: I do meditate. I do love meditating. I like quieting my mind. In fact, one of the chapter titles in my new book that I haven't

Pam Grout interview Page 5 of 22 even written yet, but it's already in mind, is "Don't be Your Mind's Bitch." Sometimes our minds will be telling us all this stuf, and ... If you start buying into that, or believing that, then that can get you into a lot of trouble. The more clear you are, again, this force, this power, can come through to you. So, it's real important to clear your mind. That's why I think meditation is fabulous. So, yeah, I'm a big proponent of it.

Jeannette Maw: All right, good to know. This one is making me smile. It came in, it was just this, "What color are your undies?" The reason I'm going to ask you, is because something about what you've shared on this call already, and what I gather from your writing, Pam, makes it seem like the tulips are always blooming at your house. The unicorns are out grazing in the back fields. The birds are doing all your cleaning chores like you're a main character of a Disney film. So, I'm curious about, do you have ... you talk about undies, but, how do you manage contrast? When the real ... maybe this isn't a question that even applies to how you roll. When the real world hits and it's not pretty, how do you respond to that?

Pam Grout: That's one of my main theses, that is just a judgment, that it's not pretty. That's really common. We're taught really early on that this is good, this is not good. This is what we want to do, this is what we don't want to do. When you get into this real acceptance and this love, and this gratitude channel, everything is good. So, there really is no bad thing. That's just a judgment call.

In fact, if we want to start calling something bad, we can certainly manifest that, but as you start looking at every creation with child-like wonder. We love going to scary movies and these things that we create. So if we start coming from that place of, "Wow, this is really interesting," and really look at it with this "Oh, gee whiz" attitude instead of an "Oh, no, woe is me." So, I don't really relate to the good and bad as much.

That's one of my main things, it to give up judgment of all kinds. I believe that in the quantum playground, any infinite possibilities, and I mean infinite, we can't even get our minds around how much is possible and how many options there

Pam Grout interview Page 6 of 22 are. If we start judging something, "Oh, this is good, this is bad," we cut of 50% right there. I don't want to cut anything of, so I don't really ... Certainly, I can still relate to that concept because it's such a big part of our paradigm. The paradigm that this is good and this is bad. But, as I let go of a lot of a lot of those judgments, it really has helped me. It's served me, it's worked for me, let's just put it that way.

At times when I'm not being that, when I am being judgmental, or I am being my mind's a bitch or whatever, I will often ask the Holy Spirit to help me see it diferently, which comes from A Course in Miracles. Holy Spirit, help me see this diferently. Somehow, I've gotten of track because I'm judging this, or I'm seeing it as negative, or you know what I mean. I've got some opinion that difers from gratitude and love. At that point, I will try to reset, so to speak, and just ask to be shown a diferent .

Jeannette Maw: That gets easier the more we practice it, too, don't you think? For some people, that might feel like a lot of efort to get to a new perspective every time they're bumping into a judgment. But, I think the more we practice it, the more natural it becomes. Because we're just returning to our natural state, right?

Pam Grout: That's exactly right. It really is really simple. Again, that's one of those tweaks. You know, "tweak and ye shall find" thing. We have to get over that this is hard to do. How easy is it to say, "Help!" Which is basically what I do, "Help!" I'm not feeling good, or I'm not on the joy channel, so I ask for help. I don't have to do anything other than say, "Help." That's 4 letters, that's pretty easy to do. Yeah, I think it's a pretty simple process.

It's not like I think, "Okay, now I have to do 50 push-ups, I have to run around the block, and I have to write 1000 afrmations." I just say, "Hey, help, I'm not feeling good, or I'm not thinking in the direction that I want to be thinking or feeling. So, help." It's pretty simple.

Jeannette Maw: You know, I think you showed a really good example. I was Googling your name, and, hello, somebody needs to do a Wikipedia page for you. I couldn't believe there wasn't one

Pam Grout interview Page 7 of 22 yet. Somewhere I read, it wasn't an afrmation, it was the first line of your bio. Then you said, "Four of those things are true," or "Three of those four things are true."

Pam Grout: Yeah.

Jeannette Maw: I know a lot of Conscious Creators get tripped up with when they're afrming a reality that they want, but then they feel a little torn around being honest. I thought that was such a brilliant way to speak what you want into being without being misleading, or being at risk of someone calling you on the carpet for saying something that isn't so. Do you have any tips for creators as to how to manage that? Maybe it isn't something that you run into a lot with your own practice, since from what you've describe as what your process is, maybe that's not something you do a whole bunch.

Pam Grout: Well, you might have seen this on my blog. I've talked about the 2 words, "It's okay." Whatever is happening, whatever you feel, it's okay. We really beat ourselves up all the time. I need a process, or I need something, you know. It's okay, it'll pass. A thought left unimpeded will float through the mind in 90 seconds.

That woman that did- Jill [Bolty 00:16:22] [Payworth 00:16:22], she's a neuroscientist. Before she had her stroke- She had that TED talk, "My Stroke of Insight." She says, "A thought will just zip on through in 90 seconds. It's when we decide to grab onto it, build a shrine to it. Woe is me, join a support group. That's when we start creating all that." So, if we just say, "It's okay, it's no big deal," and let it just float right on by.

That goes back to that smooth and easy, too. Then, the other higher intention ... My intentions mostly have to do with being joyful, peace of mind, having surety of purpose. One of them is unceasing joy. That's my 4 main intentions that I go about my life with.

Jeannette Maw: It's making me think that some of these questions coming in really won't apply to you. One was, "Where do you plug in to [LOE 00:17:15] inspiration? Who do you study?" That one came in in a couple diferent forms. It doesn't sound like

Pam Grout interview Page 8 of 22 you're doing a lot of studying about manifesting. You're something, you're inspiring others.

Pam Grout: It's funny you asked that. I've been really feeling, again I want to be open to this divine guidance and I've been feeling ... I've been a huge student, I've read everything. I've read Esther Hicks, I've ... I mean, you name it, I've read it throughout my life. I'm really feeling now that I need to be more open to direct guidance from nature. From just the messages that are trying to come through me, as opposed to reading what somebody else says. Basically, we're all saying the same thing. Like I said, there's only 11 words we need to know.

Wait, what is it? "The universe has your back, and everything's going to be okay." Those are the 11 words everybody needs to know. Everything is some derivation of that. The universe has your back, and everything's going to be okay. Anything else that doesn't show up that way, is really just some illusion that we have created. That goes back to making it really simple. I'm all about that simplicity.

I'm trying to remember what the question was exactly.

Jeannette Maw: Is there anyone that you study? Anyone that you're plugged into?

Pam Grout: Oh, study, right. A Course in Miracles. A Course in Miracles talks a lot about ... It says we cannot have any thought without ... It says every thought has power. A Course in Miracles is very clear about that. Even though it's not necessarily called the law of attraction-

In fact, it's really funny. I wrote this book E-Squared because of- this big 34 language best-seller- I had written it 9 years earlier. It had a diferent title. This is before I think I'd even heard of the law of attraction. It's exactly what it is. Law of attraction is the exact same thing, but I don't even know that I knew that term when I first wrote the book. I'm not even 100% sure I have that term in the book. Do you remember?

It's all the same stuf, but I'm not sure. Now I call it that, now I know because this is this big law that everybody knows about. It's easy to describe because everybody knows what

Pam Grout interview Page 9 of 22 you're talking about. I'm not even sure that I knew that particular term when I first wrote the book.

You've probably heard the story about that. I wrote it and then it didn't do very well. It was called God Doesn't Have Bad Hair Days. So, I set it aside and got happy. I wrote 3 books for National Geographic. I didn't worry too much about that book, then I decided to revisit it. It came out about the same time as The Secret. We're talking about the exact same time. However, my publisher at that time hired a traditional fundamentalist-Christian publicist because the title had God in there.

Jeannette Maw: Oh boy.

Pam Grout: I think maybe it possibly got of on the wrong foot. So I let it go and as I got happier and I opened my joy channels, I thought, "You know, I loved that book. I'm going to bring it back out again." It was already out once, but I got the rights back to it. I sold it to . Of course, they specialize in this kind of books. Then, of course, the rest is history.

A lot of it is, I think, is that I got happy. I became ready, I prepared, I allowed, to use Esther Hicks's terminology, I allowed all the good to come to me. It's the exact same book, just a diferent outcome in the end, so to speak.

Jeannette Maw: Wow.

Pam Grout: Nothing's an outcome. It's just a continual process. Or continuing growing, expanding, changing.

Jeannette Maw: When you said, "Opened my joy channel," someone had asked ... Oh, where is this one? Yeah, when people ask, "How did you do it?" What's the answer to that question? What I heard you say right there, first of all, I didn't realize you'd written it 9 years prior. How cool is that story? It sounds to me like you just gave the answer to that question, which was, "Opened my joy channel. I let it go. I got happy."

Pam Grout: Exactly, exactly. I really didn't obsess about it too much. As a writer, some things are going to hit, some things aren't. You just keep moving on, you write the next book. Like I said, I wrote 3 books for National Geographic. I kept feeling, I just Pam Grout interview Page 10 of 22 loved that book. I always liked it, so I decided to revisit it. Decided to send it out to Hay House. Even though Hay has this, "We do not take unagented books," they bought it. Everything worked out perfectly.

I've had book agents in the past. This is my 16th book. My agent had retired after she was John Gray's agent, and Richard Carlson's agent. She was this big-time agent, so she made millions and retired. So I was left without an agent. When I was selling E-Squared, I just sent it over the transom. Everybody says, "Hey, you can't do that." Hey, if you believe that, or if that's your destiny, or whatever, it's going to happen.

I don't believe anything anybody else says. I mean, well, I do to a certain extent. You know what I mean? I'm going to create my own reality no matter what they tell me.

Jeannette Maw: Wow. That would be a cool thing to be able to teach other people how to do. I know it stops so many people in their tracks. It has me, and I even understand theoretically nobody can block me but my own self, but I've even been tripped up by that one myself. When someone else believes something so strongly, how to opt out of that? I guess part of it is just having a really strong foundation in how all this works, right?

Pam Grout: Yeah. Just, again, totally trusting in how much I am loved by the universe. If you really knew that, if we had any idea how much Source, again to use Esther Hicks' term, loves us, we would never worry again. If we never worried again, our lives would just flow smoothly and we'd never- We'd never even know what a problem was. Most of us don't realize how much we are loved and how much power that we have. How much this giant quantum playground is interacting with us at all times and wants to bless us, wants to guide us, wants to get this message through to us.

We are blocking this. We are our own worst enemies. We learn all these cultural paradigms that suggest just the opposite. In fact, this is a funny story. E-Cubed, I wanted to have it printed upside-down, the entire book. The idea behind it is that world-view one point [inaudible 00:23:37] which we're moving out of, is that there's a new way of

Pam Grout interview Page 11 of 22 looking at the world now, and we have to give that up. Hay House would not allow me to print it upside-down. There's one page that's upside-down in it. One of the things I say in there is, "If you happen to be reading this in a cofee shop, and you're worried what are people going to think, 'Oh, who's the illiterate idiot reading their book upside-down,' just pump your fist into the air, because it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. It only matters what you think."

Anyway, they wouldn't let me do it upside-down, but I believe almost every single thing that we learned is just the opposite of what's really true.

Jeannette Maw: That sure fits. Wow. That makes a lot of sense. I like your style, too, to even dream up having a book printed upside- down. You are so cool. When someone's asking what resources you would recommend to others, that sounds like question might be coming from a place of someone who's looking for an answer outside of themselves, and something beyond just joy and happiness and trust in the universe. To anyone who's wondering what that is, obviously, E-Squared is a fun one to play with.

I cannot believe how many people have been inspired by that. Pam, did it take you by surprise?

Pam Grout: Well, every day, I wake up- I mean, to this day, people will say- I get emails that start out with, "You are never going to believe this." I get that every day. I hear all these amazing stories. Even if I didn't believe this before, and of course I did, that's why I wrote the book, there's no way I could doubt it now. I've gotten so much proof. It just pours into my email. How much people love it is just so surprising to me. I mean, I knew it was a great book, and I love it.

Jeannette Maw: It is. It's a great book, it's a great topic, it's great writing. Still, you lit people up in ways I haven't seen since The Secret came out.

Pam Grout: Yeah. I'd say it did sort of surprise me. On the one hand it didn't, but on the other had it did. To this day, it's still the love coming in. If I didn't know I was loved before, I sure do now. I think at one time in the original book God Doesn't

Pam Grout interview Page 12 of 22 Have Bad Hair Days, I called one of them "The Sally Field Experiment," because, "You love me, you really love me."

That's how I feel a lot of the time. That was one of the things that let's let the Dude, or the Source, the whatever, the Energy, show us. That yes, we are loved.

Jeannette Maw: Okay, very cool. Is ACIM something that you would point people towards, or is that just your own personal path that you've ...

Pam Grout: It's very complex and a lot of people don't relate to it. In fact, I was at a Hay House conference over in London. Robert Holden, I don't know if you know him, he stood up and he held up A Course in Miracles, and he's a big student of it. He said, "How many of you people own this book?" Pretty much everybody raised their hand, they all owned it. He said, "How many of you people have actually read this book?" Maybe one or two people. I think it's kind of intimidating, and definitely not for everyone.

If you feel called to it. See, this is what I think. There are so many diferent paths. All paths are leading to the same place, so if we start listening to our own inner guidance as opposed to what might work for Esther Hicks or what might work for me ... Each of us has our own way of finding this thing. If we quit worrying it will be shown to us. Literally, it will be shown to us.

A Course in Miracles is definitely my path. A lot of people will ... I'll be talking about the course, they'll go get it, and they're like, "I don't understand it, I don't like it." No, I don't know that I even recommend it, because I don't want people to not like it. But, it certainly speaks to me.

When I grew up, my father was a Methodist minister, so some of that terminology in A Course in Miracles works for me. That might be why I was drawn to it and why it's been so meaningful in my life. When I say I've read everything, I really have. I've read all the Wayne Dyer books, oh, you name it.

Right now, I feel my path is to quit reading so much of that. Like I said, it's all the same thing. The universe has your back and everything's going to be okay. It's all the same stuf. So Pam Grout interview Page 13 of 22 let me demonstrate that. That's why I think the book has spoken so much to people.

Jeannette Maw: Right on, you are so right.

Pam Grout: You can talk about theories all you want. You have to actually put it into practice. The rubber hits the road here, and that's what happening. People are starting to see this. Some people are going to dive right in, others are going to stick their toe in. It's just a starting point for diferent people but this force is so powerful. This practice, this law of attraction is so amazing and wonderful. Everyone, I believe, needs to know about this. The thing about it is, like the little quiz that I did, we're all using it all the time.

It's just that we're not conscious of it. If you become conscious of it, and get all those thoughts going in the same direction, all that energy like a laser, then things can happen magically all the time.

Jeannette Maw: I think you're right. That's what really makes the diference. This is what inspired people to put it into practice. Rather than just more study about it, more theory, more abstract conversation, it's put the principles into practice and that's what got everyone lit up.

Pam, do you ever ... Someone did say, "What do you say to people who aren't getting results?" I don't know if this person was reading E-Squared, or just talking about the law of attraction in general, but what do you say to someone who's feeling frustrated that it doesn't seem to be working?

Pam Grout: Of course, you do hear that. You're not going to [inaudible 00:29:20] without getting that from time to time. I've got 2 blog posts that I'll send back to people. One of them is "Let the universe do the heavy lifting." Again, it goes back to just getting joyful, quit worrying about it. Say it's okay and then just go and do something that makes you happy, like dance around the room or sing a silly song.

People go, "Oh, that's so ridiculous." But that's part of the problem that's blocking the manifestation from coming to you if you would call that ridiculous. Getting happy is the most powerful thing you can do. Again, our paradigms will Pam Grout interview Page 14 of 22 say, "Oh, that's not a worthy pursuit." That's one of those upside-down paradigms we've all bought into. I send that "Let the universe do the heavy lifting." It's all about, again, being happy, setting the joy channel.

The other one, I don't know if you've ever seen that video of the gorilla, where they're doing the basketball?

Jeannette Maw: Oh, yeah.

Pam Grout: I'm the god of that. Yeah, that's another one. I kind of say, "Hey, look." A lot of people do not see that. In fact, here's a story I heard just the other day. Somebody was interviewing me. They were a coach, they had had a client who said, "Nothing ever works out for me." Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She said, "Here, I want you to read this book." She gave her E-Squared. She said that she got a raise out of the blue. This was when she was asking for a blessing. Her son, she says he doesn't even study, won a spelling bee. Ten things happened to her. Finally, on the 10th thing, she goes, "Oh, my gosh. These are all blessings."

In other words, the universe was giving her one thing after another, after another, and she did not see it. It took 10 hits on the head before she could see it. I think that's what happens to a lot of us. That's why this book has been so cool. It gives us permission to actually ask for things.

Here's another big key that I'm going to be writing a lot about in my next book. It's for us to get innocent. To feel really innocent about asking for things. Really, what we are here intending and manifesting things, we are spreading god, if you want to use that terminology. We are growing this force, and this is an innocent thing for us to do, but a lot of us feel guilty.

There's that part of us, "Well, I shouldn't want a brand new Mercedes. I shouldn't want a bigger house." Whatever it might be, there's always a little bit of guilt that goes along with that. When we really get it that what we're doing here on this material is actually growing god, that might not be a term a lot of people like. We are actually doing important work. So we need to get really innocent about whatever

Pam Grout interview Page 15 of 22 desires that we have. That's a big thing for people. A lot of people can't get innocent about it. There's a lot of guilt wrapped up around it.

Jeannette Maw: I love that concept. I'm already looking forward to reading more about that. Pam, it looks like when you describe ... You roll through life with a foot-loose, fancy-free approach. For some people, they won't be able to reconcile. I know I've gotten this myself. It seems like you're doing a lot of work. Like you're really, really busy.

Pam Grout: Okay, I'll tell you. Here's today. I'm talking to you. This morning I got up and I ran 3 miles. I had to make a couple phone calls. Then I went and played [pickle 00:32:33] ball for 2 hours. Then my daughter and I went to have breakfast and cofee. I guess that's a lot of things. Is that what you mean?

Jeannette Maw: I don't think that's what people imagine a best-selling author, how she's filling her time. An interview here, traveling there.

Pam Grout: Sometimes I am busy, definitely. I have so much email now, that's made my schedule a little bit busier. Tell you a little truth. The thing I've always thought about myself, one of my roles in life this time around, if you believe in , was to be really peaceful and have a relaxed life, to ofset everybody else's busyness.

Jeannette Maw: Oh, wow.

Pam Grout: I honestly felt that was one of my little responsibilities in the big whole that we're all connected to. We're all one, basically. We all have little jobs or whatever. One of my things that I've always felt I was doing was taking it easy to of-set everybody else's hectic, crazed ... I have an easy life in a way. Things have always come to me, but certainly I've created some drama.

I was big on creating drama around men. I did that for a long time. I finally got bored with it. Once I had my daughter, it's like, "You know what, I'm not going to do this any more." Now I've been with my guy for 13 years and we have a great relationship. I just got tired of doing the drama. For the most

Pam Grout interview Page 16 of 22 part, everything has always, always just kind of worked for me. I've been very, very lucky.

I've actually seen my blog posts. I talked about, "I am the luckiest person on the planet." Part 1 and Part 2, whatever. That's how I feel.

Jeannette Maw: That fits. Really nice to talk with someone who's walking that talk, too. Sometimes it seems like what they preach is not what they practice. A lot of people get suspicious, whether they can trust what's being shared if this person isn't even practicing it themselves. I just absolutely love that from you.

All right. What manifestation are you most proud of? What's your favorite thing that you've created in your life?

Pam Grout: I'm awful proud of my daughter. I really love her ...

Jeannette Maw: I knew you were going to say that.

Pam Grout: She goes of to Costa Rica on Saturday, where she's doing her study abroad down there. Probably that. I am really proud of creating a community here with people that are having this conversation about possibility, and actually being more interested in a vision of what could be possible instead of talking about 'what if'.

It depends on the day. I was thinking the other day that I was going to write a new bio for myself. Just all these funny little things. I've been an extra in a zombie movie. I've written a country-and-western song. I've done all these silly little, weird things. I thought, "That'd be kind of a fun bio to write." I haven't put it together yet.

So, what am I most proud of? I don't know. Again, my daughter, that's definitely. I would say that's it.

Jeannette Maw: Well, I think you have a lot of successes under your belt that would be easy to put on that list. Very, very lovely.

All right. Last question I wanted to ask you, then if anyone's dialed in who wants to pop one in that we haven't covered yet, I told Pam we'd be 45 minutes, so we've got a couple

Pam Grout interview Page 17 of 22 minutes left. What's the one thing that any manifestor could do to improve their results or their success?

Pam Grout: Start looking for things to be grateful for. Start seeing the abundance of the universe. This little gratitude practice, getting up every day and sending the 3 blessings- Again, it has to be diferent from the day before. That has completely changed the way I look at the world. I mean, really, it's all about perception, right? By simply focusing more on gratitude and start looking at good things that happen.

Probably everybody says the same thing, but gratitude would be my easy little answer to that.

Jeannette Maw: Well, and a powerful one. I think anyone who's engaged understands where that answer comes from. What I like is that it's not a complicated game-changer. That's an easy thing for us to do. You said 3 little texts in the morning. It's not like we have to set aside an hour every day in order to engage it, but it makes such a diference.

Pam Grout: Here's what A Course in Miracles says. I like to say this, too. This practice, if you want to call it that, is not difcult. It's actually really easy. It's just very diferent than the way we've been looking at the world. I know everybody wants me to have all these processes and all these steps, all this kind of stuf. I think we all want that because that's the old paradigm that says, "You gotta do these 7 steps." It's just so easy that we can't hardly embrace it. So, some people just don't want to think it could be this easy.

Yeah, it is easy. As you begin to believe it's easy, it becomes easier, too.

Jeannette Maw: I love that. We don't even have to do any law of attraction studying, or manifesting processes. Just get happy, get grateful, practice seeing the abundance. Really it's that simple.

Okay, so for those who are dialed in or in chat room, anyone got any questions for Pam that we didn't already cover?

Nancy: This is Nancy. Hi Pam.

Pam Grout interview Page 18 of 22 Pam Grout: Hi Nancy.

Nancy: I just was- My church, I'm a Unitic. A relatively recent Unitic. I love that term. I haven't heard it before, I think it's great. Our church had done ... We started reading your book and then doing some of the exercises. It was part of the weekly services for about a month. She focused on your book, then she invited people at the service to come up and share their personal stories. Do you know if this is a common thing with Unity, to be sharing your book?

Pam Grout: A lot of people have. That's another thing that's amazed me. I have heard from Unity churches literally all over the country that have used my book as a series. A Sunday series. In fact, the Unity church that I sometimes go to here in Lawrence, they're going to do E-Cubed in it. They may be the first one to do E-Cubed. But, yeah, there have been at least 15 diferent churches that have told me that all kinds of people have come up with programs that they're doing around E- Squared. Every day it seems there's another new group starting up.

I'm really big on what I call the power posse. In E-Cubed I talk a lot about that, we've got to do it together. I've got 2 groups that I'm in here in my home town. I feel like we keep each other going. I think it's really important to work together. That's why what Jeannette doing here with this blog and the party and all that, I think it's very powerful to do this together.

Sometimes you forget. You forget how much you're loved, you feel guilty. All those things that the human crazy stuf that will happen. So it's good to have friends to remind you. That's the big thing that is. Yeah, a lot of people have been doing it in groups, and that's been really fun.

Jeannette Maw: Yeah, I think just about everything's better in a group.

Pam Grout: Yeah, maybe not everything, but a lot, definitely.

Nancy: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Pam Grout interview Page 19 of 22 Jeannette Maw: Question from Sonja, "How did you stop the relationship drama?" Did you mention relationship drama, Pam? Because if you did, I didn't catch that part.

Pam Grout: Yeah, no. I mentioned that was one of the areas that I probably ... You know how sometimes you'll go to those places where you'll say, "Okay, let's work on these 7 areas of your life. Your career, your health, your ." All those things. Of course, relationships is one. I sort of did the relationship drama for a while. How did I end it?

What happened is, I had my daughter and it was no longer acceptable to do relationship drama. I wanted it to be peaceful and loving for her. So, I just stopped it. Again, once you know that what you focus on expands. I'm not going to focus on any kind of relationship drama at all. It changed. I literally just set it down. Again, that's one of those things where it's so easy that people don't want to hear how easy it is.

It's not hard, it's just diferent. It's just real diferent from the way we're used to doing things.

Jeannette Maw: Wow. I love that answer. You just decided that you were done with it.

Pam Grout: Yeah.

Jeannette Maw: Girlfriend, I cannot thank you enough for coming to Good Vibe University to share your insights and inspiration with us. You are my idea of a good time.

Pam Grout: Well, thank you so much. I felt like, oh, you guys wanted to me to have all these processes and stuf. Sorry I don't have a lot of them, but I'm just telling you what I'm thinking.

Jeannette Maw: I think that's actually more helpful than sending people down more rabbit holes, when really these are simple answers. When we try to make it complicated, we're not being in service to ourselves or how we're experiencing life.

Yeah, I agree with Nancy in chat room. I like the ease of what you brought to us today. It felt fabulous.

Pam Grout interview Page 20 of 22 All right, so for everyone, I'm sure everyone here knows where to find you and where to find E-Cubed. Is there any particular resource or page you want to point people to?

Pam Grout: I'll tell them about the E-Cubed selfie challenge, which is really fun. Okay, my website's PamGrout.com and my Facebook page Pam Grout, blah, blah, blah. Twitter PamGrout. But, right now I'm doing the E-Cubed selfie challenge. Everybody's doing selfies now. What the challenge is, you create a vision for yourself, and you create a selfie, because then you see yourself with this thing. I'm giving away these prizes. There's a pair of tickets to each of the 4 North American I Can Do It's this year. It's Denver, Orlando, New York and somewhere in Canada. Edmonton, I think.

Also, a cruise from Seattle up to Alaska this summer with me. People that want to enter the E-Cubed selfie challenge, have them look them look that up on the internet. It's kind of a fun thing, you can win prizes. What I like to say, too, about the selfie challenge, is everybody wins. Once you create a vision for yourself with that selfie, you've already won, because you've already created a vision. Anyway, that's a fun thing that's going on right now. I think the contest is going to end the end of January. I'm so loosey-goosey about it.

People will say, "When's the deadline? When's the end?"

I'll say, "Well, okay, probably at the end of January."

I say, "Post it to my Facebook page."

Somebody will go, "Can I tweet it?"

"Oh, yeah, no problem."

"Can I email it to you?"

"Oh, yeah, no problem."

I'm pretty easy.

Jeannette Maw: I love how you roll. I love how you roll, and that is a fun challenge. Those are great prizes, too, so I'm glad you

Pam Grout interview Page 21 of 22 mentioned that to everyone here. Look up the E-Cubed Selfie Challenge with Pam Grout and have some fun with that.

Thanks again for having fun with us.

Pam Grout: Lovely. Good.

Jeannette Maw: Let's go have some fun with ourselves. Thanks again, Pam. Hopefully, we'll get to play with you again soon.

Pam Grout: Okay, sounds good. Thanks, guys. Bye everyone.

Pam Grout interview Page 22 of 22