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Gretchen Jackson SHAW: What other things were there? I never saw them and [Julie?] never set any others along that stretch of Washington Street. JACKSON: We had the elevated, overhead elevator. We had -- well, we had a Spanish (inaudible) there. We had a furniture store. SHAW: (inaudible) JACKSON: Yeah. More than that, we had another one (inaudible) my furniture. [Gold Flakes?] furniture store. Gold -- that goes way back. And then you had the Dudley... I'm going up near Ferdinand's, across from there, we had H&A Smith, what's the -- H&A Smith, and then we had another department store. SHAW: Yeah, Timothy Smith. JACKSON: Timothy Smith. SHAW: And Dutton's. JACKSON: And Dutton's, that's it. SHAW: And you had -- there was a Woolworth's on the corner of Ruggles Street. JACKSON: That's right. SHAW: And across [00:01:00] the street, there was a Blair's Supermarket. 1 JACKSON: Blair's Foodland. SHAW: And there was a Kennedy's butter and egg store. JACKSON: Stores, everywhere, and they were lovely. SHAW: And there's also two movie theaters. JACKSON: Yes, we did. SHAW: The Dudley and the Roxbury. JACKSON: And then, you had a black gentleman from 38 Williams Street named Mr. Thomas Gene [Skyler?] who owned Ruggles Street Hall. He was a gentleman of color. A very fabulous family, and that's how I met Dr. Jackson on Martha's Vineyard island, they had a home there. SHAW: And how did you know them? JACKSON: Through my mother. SHAW: Oh, through your mother. JACKSON: And father, they were friendly. I will tell you this, I had a brother that fell out of the window when he was a baby, and injured his brain. [00:02:00] My mother travelled all over the world to find a doctor who could operate on his brain to help him speak. She came to find places up here in Massachusetts, and some friend of Mommy's in New Rochelle, New York introduced her to Mary Skyler. And they became friends, and my mother brought my brother up here to see if the institutions up here could help here. When she found Dr. Williams' shop in Germany, he came and 2 operated on my brother's brain from here to here. And his first words were, ["Getchy?"] that's how I got my nickname. SHAW: Getchy. JACKSON: He couldn’t say Gretchen. He never spoke until the surgery, and he called me Getchy. So, my whole early childhood was spent with him. And on Saturdays [00:03:00] and Sundays, Saturdays I'd take him to the movies. All day, you could stay at the movies all day for 10 cents in those days. And then on Sundays, we spent the whole day in church, he loved the church. SHAW: Which church did you attend? JACKSON: Bethesda Baptist Church in New Rochelle, New York. SHAW: You're related to the [Clifford?] family, West Point Fillpin, are you not? JACKSON: No, I'm from the Clifford family, but my grandfather was -- we were related to that movie star, Jason Clifford. That was my father's, father's brother. But he was a very down-to-earth Irishman. He was fabulous. He taught me how to put up my dukes. No racial bigotry, nothing. He was a [00:04:00] real fabulous -- and the woman that he married was [Jedd Black?]. I remember this, I lived long enough to tell you. And he was fabulous, and he says, "Never mind your mother, she's (inaudible) society. (inaudible) you're going to learn how to fight in this world," get it? That's 3 an interesting experience I had. But that's how Mommy met, and we got to my brother Robin and got him some care, and I stayed with him until I got married I took care of him, went to school. SHAW: Where? JACKSON: In New Rochelle, New York, the best schools in the world. And was in the spring frolic, and that was quite an honor, if you're a good student. And my brother and I appeared in the spring frolic of New Rochelle school, the [Aberlin?] School. And then from there, I went to New Rochelle High, graduated with honors, and from there, I wanted to go to Sarah Lawrence, [00:05:00] but Mommy died, so I went to Drake Business College, got my papers in (inaudible), which I had no interest in at all, but panicked because I said, "What if my father passes? I'll have to be self-supported." So, I had to study something that I figured I could get a job quickly in. But my major interest was research science. Can you read that? SHAW: Yes, I can. JACKSON: I wanted to be a research scientist. SHAW: A woman ahead of her time. JACKSON: Yeah. SHAW: So, you came to Boston, you're on Winthrop Street, walking down from Winthrop Street down to Cornfield Road, 4 that's about three or four blocks, and you did it every day? JACKSON: Every day. SHAW: And how many children did you have then? JACKSON: I didn’t have any. SHAW: You were pregnant? JACKSON: Yes, I was pregnant, but I didn’t have a child yet. But I did hear, when the child was born, I went to the [Evangeline Luke?] Hospital, that's in the South End. SHAW: Used to be, not there anymore. It was on... JACKSON: Wait a minute... [00:06:00] SHAW: It was on West Newton Street, wasn't it? JACKSON: Yes, right, yeah. SHAW: West Newton, the Evangeline... JACKSON: It was a private hospital. And well, a lot of people said to me, "If you hadn't gone there, maybe your baby would've lived," because no doctor would go in there other than somebody affiliated with the hospital. But anyway, I gave her to the baby doctor three days after birth. But what is interesting to me was, I heard the Jewish owner of Cornfield's Pharmacy talking, I was always curious. SHAW: I know that. JACKSON: You know what I mean, always so curious. And I heard them talking about a drugstore for sale on Tremont Street. 5 Now, I'm going to tell you a little secret, you don’t have to record this, but I was born with a veil. That means that I can see things, I can predict things. My son will tell you I can tell him [00:07:00] when I'm going to hit the lottery, I don’t even play it. But, when I have that... SHAW: The feeling? JACKSON: That thing... SHAW: Do you have it today? JACKSON: I got a blessing when I agreed to do this. So, what a minute, Sarah. So, I heard them talking about this drugstore. I didn’t know where -- all I knew was how to get from Winter Street to Cornfield Pharmacy at the corner of Williams Street. I knew nothing about anything else, I'm from New Rochelle, New York, I don’t know about the big city of Boston. So, I'm asking everybody that goes by the drugstore, "How do I find Tremont Street? Fredrick Douglas Square?" I heard them say that. So, finally, they must've thought I was a nutcake. But anyway, this little Irish lady came along, and she took me by my hand, she says, "Come with me, child." She took [00:08:00] me down Williams Street. She says -- now, this is how I learned the word perpendicular. This street runs perpendicular to -- "Shawmut Avenue runs perpendicular to Williams Street," 6 she says. And we're going down there, we're going to make a right turn. And then we're going to walk all the way down Shawmut Avenue to Hammond Street. And, she says, "We'll take a left turn onto Hammond Street. And that will lead us into the street you're looking for, Tremont Street." Well, I told you all of that, because when I got there, to Tremont Street, I looked, I said, "That's the building I'm going to buy, that's the drugstore we're going to get." That's how I saw and found the pharmacy. Now... SHAW: Was it already a pharmacy when you saw it, and who was running it? JACKSON: Well, Mr. Aronstein, and they lived in the community, the Aronstein's. The [00:09:00] son was a pharmacist, the father was a pharmacist. And it was a very beautiful old fashioned drugstore. It had a mahogany canopy that came over the fountain. Well, that fascinated me because I loved antiques and stuff like that, you know? And that fascinated me. So, I went in and introduced myself. Just the young girl, young bride, to Mr. Aronstein. I said to her, "You want to sell your store?" And looked around, and started looking at the merchandise, because my mother was a businesswoman, and she had a store left to her by one of her friends, and she always taught me how to count and check the merchandise, to count the traffic that goes by, 7 that'll determine how much money you're going to make, and if it's going to be a success. So, anyway, I went in and I talked to him, and he gave me a price. And I'm looking around, and I like the store, I get ideas [00:10:00] in my head. SHAW: It had a soda fountain? JACKSON: Yes, ma'am.

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