Journal of Conventional Weapons Destruction

Volume 7 Issue 1 The Journal of Mine Action Article 9

April 2003

An Interview With Colin King

Margaret S. Busé

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Recommended Citation Busé, Margaret S. (2003) "An Interview With Colin King," Journal of Mine Action : Vol. 7 : Iss. 1 , Article 9. Available at: https://commons.lib.jmu.edu/cisr-journal/vol7/iss1/9

This Article is brought to you for free and open access by the Center for International Stabilization and Recovery at JMU Scholarly Commons. It has been accepted for inclusion in Journal of Conventional Weapons Destruction by an authorized editor of JMU Scholarly Commons. For more information, please contact [email protected]. .. 1.' t Busé: An Interview With Colin King An Interview W1th Colm Km An Interview With Colin King

Colin King is a graduate of Sandhurst. He served 14 years in the British Army, gaining extensive knowledge of explosive ordnance disposal (EOD), and served both as an instructor at the British EOD School and as the sole EOD analyst for the Min istry of Defense for six years. He founded an EOD Consultancy company, which conducts assessments, training and operational trials worldwide. He is also the editor of Jane's Mines and Mine Clearance.

by Margaret Buse, Editor

Margaret Buse (MB): Can you tell me about training the Afghan deminers?

Colin King (CK): I think it was really the first major UN demining initiative. The deminers were all mujahideen, and they were sent to one of two training centers. I led one of two teams based in Quetta, which was just on the border in Pakistan in the southern desert region; then there was another cen rer in Peshawar • (Left to Right) Examining Iraqi mines in the Gulf; PPE was to the north. Looking back, the program the minefields under control by going afrer rarely worn during military operations in those days. was very basic. It was totally focused on mines rhat had moved, or were in danger Colin uncovering an M19 mine in the Jorda n valley, where the temperature exceeded 40° Celsius. training people to remove mi nes, UXO of moving, and responding to emergency and booby traps. There was really no calls on mines and other UXO. attention ro rhe orher aspects of mine as the casualties built up during the post­ action- and none of the supporr MB: You're talking from 1984 to 2003, war clearance in the Gul£ Paul was rl1e first functions or quality assurance; none of that almost 20 years. Can you tell me how mine major British casualty among the clearance was really thought about in those days. action has changed from where it was tean1s, and that incident made a lot ofpeop le when you first started to where it is today? stop and think. MB: Who did your assessments when you went in? CK: To me, one of the most obvious MB: Could you tell me about the changes is the adoption of PPE [Personal accident? CK: T his program was purely about Protective Equipment), which just wasn't training deminers for mine and UXO a prominent issue when I first starred. It CK: Paul was a very good friend of mine. clearance. There was lirrle thought at that was available, bur in the army, we mainly He and f were in the army together and time as to which areas they would be going wore protective equipment for terrorist worked in the same unit of the EOD into, prioritizing tasks or what equipment bomb disposa l; we rarely bothered with it Regiment; we also handed over commands rhey would use. They were basically scm in for anything to do with mines. We didn't in rl1e Falklands. J stayed in the army when with a bag of hand tools, a kid's $10 Radio wear it at anytime during operations in Paul lefr and went ro Kuwait, where he was Shack metal detector and not much else. the Falklands, and I didn't use PPE for by far the most highly qualified reclmical many years afterwards. It wasn't really until expert working there. He stepped on a mine MB: When did you starr your demining my friend Paul Jefferson got severely and was severely injured; he losr a leg and efforts? injured in Kuwait that the issue was was completely bl inded. A few years later, I properly highlighted. was an expert witness when he brought a CK: My first experience with mines was court case against his employers; he claimed the Falklands. The actual Falklands war MB: PPE was not used for military that they failed to provide adequate protective was in 1982, and I wenr there two years clearance or humanitarian demining? equipment--eye protection, in particular. It later. T hen two years after that, I was absolutely true, bur then to be fair, very commanded all bomb disposal operations CK: It just wasn't someth ing that people few people bothered with any form ofPPE on the island, including responsibility for recognized as a significant consideration at that time. He won the case, but regardless the minefields. We basically rried to keep in the early days. That changed, I think, of the rights or wrongs, the fact was that it

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highlighted the issue from a common-sense trai ning, and then again sometimes you procedures], which state dmeverybodywill Where do you see d1e new technology going? CK: There are a lor of elemenrs, really. CK: It tends to happen when non­ point of view. Also from a legal perspective, will see a person with absolutely no fo rmal wear the equipmenr in and around the Do you rhink that's moneywasred or do you Another thing that has changed over the specialists, like U.S. SOF [Special ir was now clear char employers could be held education that just has natural aptitude-­ suspect area. In terms of new equipment, feel rhats money spent in a good direction? lasr years is rhar mine action is no longer Operations Forces] reams, are given basic liable and char they needed to protect their good manual skills, common sense and rhe there's been a trend away from the military seen as a stand-alone activity. lr has ro be instruction and then senr to train deminers adequately. ability to be innovative. What 1 think is combat armor where you'd have a visor, CK: I think there has been a tremendous i ntegrared in to an overall regional deminers. When the situation no longer very difficult is to screen our the right helmet and maybe a flat jacket. T here's much amount of money wasted. Bur it's nor bad development plan. There are the major firs the template and they need alternatives, MB: Do you think there is more coherence people before rhe training begins; you have more comprehensive protection available science; there has been a fundamental issues such as political support, they may nor have the depth ofknowledge between military and humanitarian to be prepared to drop people from a that also provides berrer comfort. Depending misunderstanding of rhe needs of the coordination and funding; then you get or experience to fall back on. It's always demining than when you started back in training program if they are unsuitable. 1 on your work practice, you don't necessarily deminer.lr's unfortunate d1ar there was such down to rhe fundamental issues of risky ro be just one step ahead of the people the 1980s? also think there is a significant difference need ro cover the back of d1e body or the a gap between the scientific community and understanding rhe problem. The better you're training. In some cases, rhe people between rhe qualities you are looking for back of the head. If you're working in a hot the operational community. Too much has you understand it, the more focused and they're t raining have actually been CK: Well ir's strange how demining has in a deminer and an EOD technician. cl imate, you now have options like a visor been designed from the top end down, surgical your approach to rhe solution can demining for some rime, and it's the evolved, because in the very early days it EOD demands lateral thinking and that doesn't require a helmet and frontal things that people thought would be useful be. That revolves largely around survey, trainers who are behind the curve, because was rhe military who taught it, and it was innovation; deminers often have to follow protection that allows greater mobility of bur have no real place in rhe field or have which is something else that has developed most have no practical experience at all. I all based on the military principles of a repetitive routine, and the last thing you the back. Still, unfortunately, a lot of lirrle prospect of a ny operational over the last 20 years-even though people have ro say rhar rhe SOF trainers J have minefield breaching. Humanitarian want is for them to start being innovative. military dem ini ng units will not application. Whether some of rhar research don't necessarily agree on what it means. seen have been consistently high-caliber demining techniques didn't really exist at consider-or can't afford-a change from investmenr will pay off in rhe long rerm is What is agreed is that it makes good sense people who are clearly dedicated to their difficult to say, bur from the operational to have a regional overview before you work, bur they are sometimes pur in an 1 e fJ 1 ry resource in this business is people ana, tnan •uuy, perspective, high technology hasn't launch into a program where you can't see impossible position, faced with situations contributed a great deal. lr hasn't fulfilled the wood for the trees. You have to have way outside their area of knowledge. we ho P a lot of aood IPn IP mak·n s P dv roaress." some of the promises ir made or, perhaps, some good socio-economic impact data the expectations rhar people had for ir, and available in order to begin prioritizing tasks char time. You simply had military MB: How have you seen the tools that their issued equipment. MB: I'm sure you've got a tremendous rim's a shame. What I think is li kely to and allocating resources, and a rea engineers trying to reach civilians how they rhe deminers use evolve over the last 20 number of lessons learned in the amount happen is a gradual, incremental trend­ reduction is critical ro making the best use were trained to clear mines, although many years? MB: What about rhe roots in the toolbox of time you've been working in rhe field. as we've been seeing-cowards berrer of those resources. In the last few years, had no firsr-hand experience whatsoever. and how they all integrate in their ability Where do you think demining will and detection sensitivity combined with we have seen that the survey side is Then gradually, as people realized that that CK: lr all starred with whatever military to assist the deminer? What are they should go in the next I 0 years? selectivity; more capability, better absolutely fundamental to mine action. wasn't appropriate-and that it was tools were available, still primarily the evolving into? performance from rhe enhancement of The MAC has to create a capable and com plecely impractical-human i rarian metal detector and the probe. In many CK: Mine action is being refined existing tools. At some point, perhaps, we well-supported indigenous capability. demining started to split away from cases, the probe would be the bayonet, and CK: There's a lot of talk about rhe toolbox constantly. Lessons are being learned and will get usable multi-sensor detection, Rwanda is a great example, even though military breaching and you ended up with there are still a lor of military units rhat approach, bur in many cases, it's it's becoming more focused, more surgical. which might just be rhe big step forward it's a military program. There you have a radically different approach. Now, f.wor using rhe bayoner. What we have meaningless; in reality, most derniners Jt's also being better managed and there's rhar everyone has been waiting for. really high-caliber, dedicated people being ironically, 1 see the two coming together seen is the evolution of pro tective simply have ro use whatever they've been better integration. And all of those trends supported within their own region and by again; the military are becoming far more equipment, metal detectors, probes and issued . You don't ofren see a program seem set to continue. The international MB: You menrion that there has nor been the U.S. Stare Deparrmenr. Many of the engaged in humanitarian operations, they other tools for either cutting vegetation or manager going to an area saying, ''Ah, Aavor, the application of lessons from one a lor of communication from technologists national programs rely on outside are working with and learning from the uncovering mines, chat have developed right, I see we have th is kind of vegetation, region to another, the transfer ofexperience, on down to the field personnel. H ow do assistance from specialists who can channel demining NGOs [non-governmental in co berrer, more purpose-b uil t rhis terra in, rhese mines, so we won't use mostly by personalities moving around. The you think communication between users their experience and resources into organizations] . Meanwhile, the equipment. For example, there's the that equipment-we'll use rhis." Thar community will continue to make steady and rhe R& D [research and development] addressing problems. Having said d1ar, one humanitarian demining community is initiative by Andy Smith to build tools that doesn't happen in many programs. As far progress and you will gradually see more community c.111 be improved? of the things I have a real problem wirh is taking a serious look at the rapid clearance don't fragment because his research showed as rhe international demining community and more regions listed as "mine safe." a "one-size-firs-all" approach ro different options used by the military, and seeing that so many deminers were injured by goes, certainly there are a number of There may be the odd technical innovation CK: There have been a lor of conferences programs. One of the things I try ro what might be useful to them. rools breaking up during an explosion. different tools and techniques available. that makes a major contribution, bur above and a very good annual user-focus Bur although each program will rry ro get illustrate in my assessment vis its and al l it will be rhe constan t and largely workshop organized by rhe Department presentations is that the diversity of rhe MB: What do you think are some of the MB: You mentioned in one case how the rhe best tools, PPE and detectors they can unpublicized work of the in-country ofDefense [DoD ]. The Eu ropean Union tools can fail deminers; you mentioned in afford, they rhen tend to be stuck with environment and the mine threat will programs and their donor support. The challenges of training deminers? has done similar work, so I think rhat your briefing about how PPE has failed them fo r a long rime. At rhe moment, rhe dictate differing approaches. There's no primary resource in rhis business is people communication is well-in-hand. At last, poinr in training someone ro p robe in an CK:] think even in the days of the Afghan deminers as well. closest thing to a rrue tool-box approach and, rhankn.Hy, we have a lor ofgood people the equipment designers and program area where a probe cannot possibly be used, program, you could recognize that some happens where you have a number of making steady progress. • managers are getting our inro the field and which is precisely what is being done in people had more aptitude than ochers. CK: There are a lor of issues here. There is dernining agencies operating in a region seeing for themselves rhe problems faced some of rhe programs. lr just shows poor Some people were really scared by rhe common sense poinr of whether you and swapping resources among "All photos coumsy ofColin King. by deminers. regional assessment followed by an explosives, and purring those people in choose to use PPE at all in certa in themselves. If rhe program is big enough, circumstances. If you're up against an anti­ rhe mine action center [MAC] may also inability to adapt to an obvious problem. Contact Information situations where they would be dealing MB: After 20 years, you've seen a variety with live mines or demolitions was just rank mine then it's going to kill you regardless have some centralized assets to loan our. of demining programs and mine action, MB: Is ir jusr roo difficult or are there too the wrong thing to do. Some people had of what you're wearing. Do you make the Margaret Buse what do you feel needs ro be in place for many time and financial constraints for no manual dexteri ty and that's not exactly decision nor ro wear PPE in an anti-rank MB: There is a lor of new technology char's Editor an effective demining program? organizations to tailor their rra1111ng ideal in work like this either. Some people minefield? Normally, most organizations go emerging-everything from rhe ground Tel: 540-568-2503 programs? just don't have the ability to absorb the for simple SOPs [s tandard operari ng penetrating radar to rhe bees and so on. E-mail: [email protected]

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