L’Express, February 1972 the “prophetofelectricage”wasfamous. attitude andthecontroversialassertionsforwhich reveals theintellectualbrightness,provocative which, allowingforthespiritofthosedays,still spectrum, rightandleft.Itisahistoricdocument bitter enemiesalike–atbothendsofthepolitical height ofhisfame,garneringfaithfulfollowersand to aweeklynewsmagazine.Hewasthenatthe McLuhan was60whenhegavethisinterview E-Compós isespeciallygrateful. to McLuhan.Forthis,theeditorialcommissionof include thispieceinspecialissuededicated given byPUC-Riopublisher, ithasbeenpossibleto Thanks tothekindauthorizationforrepublication Artigo1%20Entrevista%20MacLuhan.pdf . online athttp://revistaalceu.com.puc-rio.br/media/ PUC-Rio university. Thatversionisavailable n.23), aCommunicationjournalpublishedby into PortugueseandpublishedinALCEU(vol.12, February 1972.InDecember2011itwastranslated published intheFrenchmagazineL’Express in This interviewwithMarshallMcLuhanwasfirst Marshall McLuhan Interview with
that mywaytoseethe20 a category. Whattheyare actuallysayingis capitalism hasnousefulnesswhatsoeveras M. McLuhan:Thatequation,McLuhan= for example. L’Express: Left-wingintellectuals, Marshall McLuhan:Whosaysthat? American capitalism? your nameisoftenseenassynonymouswith L’Express: Didyouknowthat,inFrance, such, andespecially theireffect.Istudywhat What Iaminterested inare innovations as anything atall. albeit withoutaminimalunderstanding of with asecurityvalveintheemotionalplane, Marxists are fool.Theyprovide alotofpeople places. Likeitornot,thisisafact. class systemsupposesthatthingsremain intheir classes withthisinstantaneousspeed,sincethe exist anymore. Itisnotpossibletohavesocial social classesinoursociety;theysimplydon’t tremendously melancholic.There are nolonger communism, exceptforthefactthatitis have tobeagainstthem.Inothing from theirs. IfIamnotontheirside,then th centuryisdifferent 1/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. in turnwilldetermine whatwillbeputinside. It knowing theeffectyouwant toproduce, andthis that, towriteapoem,youhave tostartby Symbolists hadalready foundthat. Theysaid completely ignorantabout. case ofafishinthewater:wateriswhatit get immersedintheenvironment, likeinthe zone istheenvironment, thezoneinwhichyou you ignore, notbywhatyouknow. Theignorance management problem, youstartbytheaspects been defined.Likewise,whenyoutosolvea elicit. You create thecauseaftereffecthas of anad,butbystudyingtheeffectyouwishto of advertisement,youdonotstartbythecreation I learnedthatwithadvertisement.Intheworld the schemeofamessageoranaction. emission northatofitsreception willgiveyou its scheme.Meanwhile,neitherthestudyofan order of aprocess thatwefinditsstructure, M. McLuhan:Becauseitiswhenweinvertthe normally do.Whydoyouactlikethat? L’Express: Thisistheoppositeofwhatwe practice. Itislikeplayback.Ianalyzeallin. to arriveattheeffects,asisamore common toward thecause,notstartingfrom thecause phenomena startingfrom effectsandmoving this hasnothingtodowithTVshows.Ianalyze why individualshavetheneedforviolence,and longer concernedaboutthis.WhatIstudyis they seeviolenceontelevision.Iamreally no wonder whathappenstoourchildren when would happenifwedidthisorthat.Mostpeople its user. Hence,those whospeakFrench are the content ofagivenmeansis first andforemost communication, andIrecently found thatthe them. Allformsofexpression are means of perceptions, conductingandchanneling a memory, acodificationsystem.Itassimilates extension, alongdistanceactionthatcomprises extensions, amplifications.Languageisan the humanagent.Clothes,forexample,are M. McLuhan:Allthatexpandstheactionof of communication? environment. Whatisyourdefinitionofameans showing thatthemediumconstitutesan L’Express: Your greatdiscoveryhasbeen while foryouitis“”. expressions. ForthatEnglishman,allis,“”, yourselves becausehegetssurprisedwithits much more abouttheFrench languagethan you are immersedinit.AnEnglishmanknows which youdonotknowmuch,precisely because is theenvironment where yousoakandabout invisible. TheFrench language,forexample, M. McLuhan:Becausetheenvironment isalways view fromoutside. L’Express: Becausewewillalwayshaveabetter what thefishdoes,butitsenvironment. What Iwanttosayissimplythatdonotstudy fashions, eventhemostbanalones. magazine. Writers suchasFlaubertstudiedall Mallarmé, asitisknown,managedafashion technique inhisstudyontheprinciplesofpoetry. was EdgarAllanPoewhotaughtBaudelaire this 2/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. M. McLuhan:Through language,speech,we be theeffectofTVonoursociety? L’Express: Andwhatwould,morespecifically, the message,notitsparticulareffects. the wayinwhichittransformseveryone.Thisis the effectofthatmediumonsocietyasawhole,to means ofdiffusion,isthemessage,thisrefers to However, whenIassertthatthemedium, that thosetheoriesare 100%right. that, onlytoestablishasaresult thefirstproof McLuhan’s theories.Hespentalotofmoneyon thought hewouldbeabletoreduce todust communication thathadbeenused.Krubmann shows. Answersvariedaccording tomeansof brain didnotreacted tothevariationamong whether theradiowasornotnoisy– of littleimportance.Itdidnotreally matter On theotherhand,whatwasonmedia showed veryrelevant variations. text, cinema,photography, radioandtelevision that thereactions ofbrainwavestoprinted exposing themtovariousmedia,andfound or not.Heusedhispatientsinthisexperiment, of different meansofcommunicationmattered encephalograms toverifywhetherthecontent did notbelieveinmyideas,decidedtoemploy in NewYork, HerbertKrubmann,whomalso M. McLuhan:ApsychologistatGeneralElectric it quiteparadoxicalatthesametime? L’Express: Your ideaseemsfascinating,butisn’t television are thecontentoftelevision,andsoon. content oftheFrench language;thosewhowatch because wewill alwayshavereached theplace we nolongerhaveanobjective vantagepoint, completely. Likewise,intheelectric environment be insideanenvironment thatinvolves us longer haveavantagepoint,sincewewill into thewaterandstarttoswimwewillno responsible forourtransformation.Ifwedive More widely, allourelectricenvironment is painting ofSoulages,inwhichlightsnatchesus. goes through it.You canalsocompare itwiththe that captures ourattention,butthelightthat image thatthestainedglasswindowrepresents latter withtheeffectofstainedglass.Itisnot TV isaudio-tactile.Itpossibletocompare the the cathoderaytube.Cinemaisvisual,while are the screen, sincelightreaches youthrough look atthescreen, whereas withtelevisionyou by television,conveyedit.Inthecinemayou television, nomatterwhichfilm,itistransmitted M. McLuhan:No,notatall.Ifyoushowafilmon consequence ofwhattelevisionshowsthem? L’Express: Ofcourse,butisn’tthatexactlya provoked bytelevision. dozen words. Thisisoneofthemanyeffects The TVgenerationdoesnotusemore thana I mean”. “Actually…you know…man…Imeant,man… became increasingly verbal.Young peoplesay: Since the advent oftelevision,youngsters by rathersimpleanduniversal“gestures”. contrary, verbalformsdisappear, beingreplaced into sounds,verbalforms.With television,tothe translate ourperceptions ofthevisibleworld
3/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. out andwillstop turning.Thisiswhathappens can’t betoobigbecausethenthewheelwillfall need asmallspaceseparating them.Butthis the wheelandaxis.For the wheeltoturnyou longer localizethingsandconceptsinit.Itislike space, open360degrees, resonant. We canno Electric spaceisabsolute.Itlikeacoustic become decisive. the contrary, itistheintervalsamongthingsthat traces longavenues.With theelectricspace,to order, organizes, extractsperspectives,and them formillennia,isaclassifier:heputsin rationalist, inthewayWest hasunderstood M. McLuhan:Itisamatterofspace.The vocabulary observedamongtheyoung? L’Express: Andhowdoesthatexplainthelossof longer abody, hardware. There isonlysoftware. The spiritleavesimmediatelytoTokyo. There isno a fact.Anditissacred, disembodied. but desire, They are here andyouare there. Thisisnota Today yougetthephoneandare inTokyo. in it;hewasinsideit. no longerawayfrom action,ratherhetookpart state wouldalsoengageincombataction.Hewas revolutionary, sinceitmeantthattheheadof connect through thetelegraphwithfront was making pointofview, theresult ofhisabilityto chief oftheArmedForces. From thedecision- was thepresident oftheUnitedStatesand telegraph wasAbrahamLincolnin1860.He man connectedtothefrontline through the Everything startedwiththetelegraph.Thefirst where wewanttogo,wherever thatmaybe. miniskirt there was a devicecalledhulahoop, take theexampleofminiskirt. Before the I havejustsaidthatclothes are ameans. Let’s become no-one. of identity. Theyreject theirownidentity, and to nothing,andtheynolongerhaveanykind primitive existence,inwhichlifeisreduced However, thekeyisthattheyreturn toa with it. which theyare familiarsotheycancohabit translate industrialnoiseintoalanguagewith are away ofhumanizingit.Theyattemptto sounds from theindustrialenvironment. They musical language ofrepugnant andirrational for example,aren’t more thantranslationfora M. McLuhan:Theyclearlyreact. Rockandjazz, anymore? TV thatoppressesthemandtheycan’ttake young people“spitout”preciselytheworldof L’Express: Wouldn’t itbethecasetosaythat of theenvironment inwhichheisinserted. must becapableofmakinganin-depthreading than us,thehunteruseshisperceptions, ashe hears everythingwithhisfingers.Muchmore the non-visualmanwholistens,perceives and Eskimos, Brancusi,Bergson are this kind of man; with theworldofconsumption. and nolongerwanttohaveanythingincommon earth; thisiswhytheyaspire toaprimitivelife This iswhytheywanttowalkbarefoot onthe Neolithic Ageandreturned tothePaleolithicAge. Today’s kidsare allhunters.They have leftthe with theTVgeneration.
4/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. M. McLuhan:Yes, thatiselectricity, television. but ahugeplanetarytribe. that is,thewholehumankind formingnothing L’Express: Itisyourtheoryofaglobalvillage, for centuries. In theWestern world,wehadn’t hadsuchamask thereby joiningtheshow. Itisacollectivemask. use itsomehowtocanalize,codifysocialenergy, the miniskirtisagarmentandmask.People alone; youneedalotofpeopleforthat.Therefore, But garmentisourhabit.You can’t create ahabit Cyclops, heisaone-eyedhero. he becomesahero. And,withglasses,evena with hismotorcyclist clothes,ontheotherhand, servant toenforce therulesandwritefines. Yet bureaucrat clothesisa“pig”,theperfectpublic States, forexample,apolicemanwithhis M. McLuhan:Sure, ofcourse.IntheUnited miniskirt beacostumeinstead? L’Express: Butisitagarment?Wouldn’t the use theminiskirt. of wheel.Andalltribes–menandwomenalike hoop camebefore theminiskirt,whichisakind garment isquiteamysteriousidea.Yet thehula it asgarment.Now, translatingawheelinto it andmakingmovearound youiswearing machine, awheel,whereas puttingyourselfinto see, spinningaringisequivalenttousingitas do; nobodyeverdidthatwithahulahoop.You play spinningtheringonstreets likechildren people movedaround theirwaist.Theydidnot do youremember that?Itwasaplasticringthat Pandora’s Box. each other. Thisiswhatwehave now, akindof there are manyproblems interwovenwith Literally, “wormbox”.Itisaphrase usedwhen Do youknowhowAmericanscallthis? multitude isonlyconfusion. old civilizationandthenewtribe.And what wehaveisthemultitude,halfwaybetween resist toelectricity, whichisnotspecialized.Now phonetics andIdon’t seehow wecouldmakeit technologies, suchaswrittentext,thealphabet, well, sinceitisfundedonvariousspecialized only becivilization.Well, wehaveevidentlydone when wetalkaboutsolidarity?Thebasiscan M. McLuhan:Whatdoweassumeasabasis emergence ofakindsolidarity? loss represent,ontheotherhand, L’Express: Couldn’twhatyoucallanidentity world, itisthedogthatcontrols everything. ultimately guaranteesmyidentity. Intoday guardian ofmysecret, itknowsmysmell.He am becausemydoggyrecognizes me.Itisthe are soimportantinoursociety. Iknowwho themselves ofwhotheyare. Thisiswhydogs Most peoplehaveadogjusttoremind have reached. back totallydifferent nexttime.Thisiswhatwe own body;wecandisappearrightnowandcome the reincarnation thesis:weare freed from our it istotalliberation,likedeath.We allknow to beyourselfanymore. Itisliberation,butwhen Here’s yourlastdaywithyourself.You don’t need And allofus,notjusttheyoung,are affected. 5/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. team thatcarriesthehardware ofthe19 M. McLuhan:Yes, betweenthatoldfashioned generations emerge? L’Express: Isthiswhereyouseethegapbetween living history’s mostmetaphysicalage. philosophy intheirblood.Inmyview, weare to teachanyonephilosophy. Nowpeoplebring perceptions. Hence,itisnolongernecessary to entertheworldofmysticism,withimmediate What Imeanisthatheleavestheworldoflogic perceptive one. conceptual. Hismetaphysicshasbecomea theoretical metaphysics–manisnolonger the systemofhumankind.Butitisnotabout most metaphysicalagethathaseverexistedin have awhollyoverlappingconscience.Itisthe In themomentweare livingitispossibleto excited aboutfacts. is goingon.Atthesametime,Idon’t getterribly simply deeplyinterested inunderstandingwhat optimistic. Imakenovaluejudgment.am M. McLuhan:Iamnoteitherpessimisticor of communication. is quiteunexpectedfortheapostleofmeans L’Express: You areincrediblypessimistic,which hardware, whatreturns isoccultism. what happens:bydoingso, by gettingread of that haseverexistedtoitsopposite. Andsee from themostfragmentedgroup ofspecialists aspirations, ontheother. We haveslipped products, ontheonehand,andyouth’s new individuals whoare fascinatedbyconsumer century, composedbyultra-specialized th
staunch Catholic. However, Inotethatwhat is M. McLuhan:Indeed,andpersonally Iama L’Express: Sure,butGodcamebeforeNewton. hardware evaporated. that simple.Hedisappeared justlikeindustrial dynamics andmathematicsdisappeared. Itis with him,thegreat, rationalistworldof that itisreally Newtonwhoisdead,because, well known:“Godisdead.”Iactuallybelieve but there isnosuchneed.Nietzsche’s stanceis M. McLuhan:Theycanhaveagodiftheywant, L’Express: Theyhavereligion,butnotagod. having faith. youngsters are allreligious without,however, a completeandimmediateexperience.Today’s not dependonanyfaithoranythingelse.Itis is happeninggoesbeyondreligion anddoes M. McLuhan:No.Infact,Iwouldsaythatwhat rebirth ofreligiousattitude? L’Express: Doyoumeanwearewitnessingthe eternal journeytoward innerlife. to surfaceinnerlife.Andwecurrently livean with theemergence ofelectricity, wehavebrought Today, havingexplodedthe19 major run,buthehaddestroyed theMiddleAges. the pagan,Greco-Roman antiquity. There wasa by inventingtheprintingpress, hebrought back one. WhenGutenberg annihilatedtheMiddleAges immediate environment tolookforamucholder innovation emerges, wealwaysdiscard the I haveexplainedinoneofmybooksthat,when th centuryschlock 6/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. what webelieve weknow. IntheEast, theyseekto an epistemologyofknowledge; weonlysystemize inner partofthepot.In West, weonlyhave void isthegreat mystery, nottheexternal, butthe hardware. InChineseculture, tothecontrary, a recipient isquiteavisualthing,itreally are implicitlytalkingaboutarecipient, and M. McLuhan:Whenwetalkaboutavoid, spiritual void? same time,anurgentmetaphysicalneedanda L’Express: Doesitmeanthatweface,atthe through allthesociety. among men,sothateachinnovationreverberates rumor thatechoeswhiletheeffectspropagate thunders represent theeffectsofinnervision, the globalprocess. Butitisodd,becauseJoyce’s cannot moveforward, weare totallycovered by When yougettotelevision,thatistheend.You and industrialrevolutions, andaftertheradio. is thundernumber10,aftertheagricultural James Joyce,in,counts10thunders.Television he whoconductsthegame. may wellbediabolic.Whoknows?Anyway, itis which wecurrently live.Andwhatisangelical and seemstohaveorganized thesituationin Lucifer wasanangelofprodigious intelligence, of thatentire diabolicuniverse,ofeverything! world, wasagreat electricalengineer, theboss I alwaysthinkthatLucifer, theprinceofthis spiritualized. be religious intheChristiansensetobetotally do withthat,sinceourworlddoesn’t haveto happening intheworldtodayhasnothingto home tohavesome privacy!”Europeans go observation: “You know, we, Americans,leave my doctoratestudents,who made thefollowing It wasn’t mewhofoundtheanswer, butoneof money back. immediately standupanddemandtohavehis some kindofpublicityonacinemascreen would curious phenomenon:anAmericanthatsees when itisallowedontelevision.Itquitea advertisement inmovietheatersand I wondered whyAmericansdonotallow We havediscovered thisinToronto onlyrecently. cities, itisunavoidable. ten years’timecarswillhavebeenbannedfrom outdated. Itsfuture couldbeinthemoon,but M. McLuhan:Acarisobviouslysomethingtotally back tothe19 example, automobiles,whosetechnologydates amount ofhardwareinoursociety. For L’Express: Yet thereremainsasignificant doesn’t know. same happens:thedetectivestartsbywhathe longer bywhatisknown.Indetectivenovelsthe Eastern habitofstartingbyignorance,andno On theotherhand,someare acquiringthat young peopleseethings.Itisinsane. his mouthandhespitsinyours.”Thisishow needed todo.Thefriendanswered: “You spitin was imminent,sosheaskedafriendwhat ours hadherfirstkiss recently. Sheknewthat give youanexample.Thedaughteroffriends There isnodoubtyoungpeopleare sick.Iwill discover whattheydon’t know. th century. 7/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. modern world? the effectsofmeanscommunication onthe the conservativeattitudein yourdescriptionof L’Express: Don’tyouunderestimatesomewhat M. McLuhan:BecauseEurope ismuchsmaller. L’Express: Why? walls. ThisisnotwhathappensinEurope. they gooutdoors,notwhenare betweenfour America, peoplefeeltheyowntheworldwhen was outdoors.LikeRobinsonCrusoe.InNorth whole world.Theprivatespacewasreally what discoverers nurtured thefeelingofowning M. McLuhan:No,thisdatesbacktothetimewhen advanced technology? here? Basically, becausethecountryhasmore communication therearemoreabundantthan the caseinUnitedStatesbecausemeansof L’Express: WhataboutEurope?Couldthisbe use publictransportation,whichisahugeproblem. he takesthecare andleaves.Thisiswhyhedoesn’t When anAmericanfeelstheneedtobeonhisown, element ofAmericanlife. a result, thecarissinglemostprivileged to do–heisnomore thanacompletefarce. As everything andespeciallytelltheirfatherwhat homes doorsare alwaysopen,children decide soon astheyare home.Indeed,inAmerican and findthemselvesbeinginacommunityas other way round. Theyleavetohaveprivacy to beinacommunity. ForAmericans,itisthe back hometofindtheirlivesthere, andleaveit
costume used temporarily tocreate aneffect. language isagarment.But isthenew is, ithadtodowithclothing. And,naturally, In itsorigin,theword slangmeantdress, that change inperception. use iteveryminute.Thisisasignalofmajor can be.AndintheUnitedStatesyoungpeople impersonal, neutral.Itisasmetaphysicalit Where itisat.“I”giveswayto“it”,which of televisionpresents averyquiet,deepphrase: Then wewere intheradiodays,whileage For example,I’lltellthecock-eyedworld. phrase thatwasusedI’lltelltheworld. “it”, whichisnewinAmerica.Inthe1920s, metaphysical conscience,becauseoftheword leap, ahugeincursioninthedominionof seconds thephrasewhere itisat.Itahuge it isquiteimpressive thatweuseevery30 After fourorfiveyearsintheUnitedStates, they comeupwithone. the needforcreating anewexpression, so When anewperception emerges, peoplefeel Slang is,infact,azoneofnewperceptions. language allthetimeduetonewperceptions. We dothatallthetime.We transform happens with theoldones?Itishard toknow. we introduce newpatternstolanguage,what “check”, there isalanguageinversion.When the “back”inarestaurant, insteadofthe in anewway. IfIallofasuddenaskfor This happenswhenwestarttoutilizelanguage what changesalongtheway. because itisdifficulttotellwhat remains from M. McLuhan:Idon’t know, Iamnotsure,
8/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. more badnewstheyread, the bettertheyfeel. feeling. “Isurvivedthat,Iam stillsound”,etc.Sothe know aboutsadstories,theyexperience thesurvival’s One ofthereasons forthatisthat,when theygetto shown badnews. will notread pleasantnewsunlesstheyare also This isfact,withoutcynicism.Ittrue.People pleasant news,youalsoneedtohavebadnews. pleasant news.Andwhenyouare seekingtosell all theservicesitoffers,alwaysconsistsofaset know why?Becauseofpublicity, which,through for badnews;itisnormallyheavyandsad.Doyou Newspapers’ firstpageisalmostalways reserved shape, whoseonlyunityisacommondate. image oftheworldonaflatsurfaceandinmosaic newspaper vibrates,interferes. Itisaninduced resonates, produceseverything anecho.A But looks forconnectionsamongthedifferent parts. understand anotherpartofit.Thereader never that no-onereads apartofnewspapertryingto any pagetoseethatitisacollage.Thissoclear instant coverageoffacts.You onlyhavetoobserve they are madeusingnewsagenciesthatpromise Our newspapersare electricinthesensethat thanks toencephalogram. isn’t it?Justlikedirect printingofbrainwaves, basis. Voice printingissomethingreally awesome, disappear andnewonesemerge onapermanent applications. Oldapplicationsgradually with thepress! Printingwillhavemanynew M. McLuhan:Well, weare farfrom beingdone survival ofGutenberg’s galaxytoday? costume? Doesn’ttheirsurvivalindicateakindof L’Express: Aren’tbooksandnewspapersold
to ensure heis20minutes awayfrom everything if hegoestoChina,theyhave tofigure outaway information heneedstopress thebutton. Hence, than 20minutesawayfrom thecommands and president oftheUnitedStatescanneverbemore atomic bombisaconspicuousexample:the It isliketheissueofpressing abutton.The director isnomore thananornament. chart. Whatevertheorganization inquestion,the are madeatamuchlowerlevelinthecompany to makedecisions.Heisoutofthegame.Decisions director atthetopofpyramidisnolongerable Given therateofspeedwehavereached, the know howtodoit. don’t control them.Andneitherwouldthey M. McLuhan:Nothing,becauseinfactthey media do? L’Express: Andwhatcanpeoplewhocontrolthe is speedthatatstakehere. contours. Andallpresents thisparadox,sinceit All thatcreates anothergalaxy, withnew to bringschemesthesurface. no more than“pattern-recognition”, anattempt classify isanillusion.Nowadaysintelligibility the sametime.Thismeansthatanyattemptto we havethishugeamountofinformationat are verypowerful.Whatisnewthefactthat are enormous,andmeansofcommunication as such,sinceteamsworkingintheagencies news becamesomethingmuchbiggerthan M. McLuhan:Themediawidenit.Manufacturing feeling? Isitrelatedonlytothemedia? L’Express: Unfortunately, isn’tthataneternal
9/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. effect toward theperiphery. What happensintheelectricplanisacentrifugal news are, themore centralizedthedecisionis. It isstrangethatthefasterandmore consistent people totellhimwhenheshouldpress thebutton. M. McLuhan:No,becauseheneedsthousandsof in themidtierwhocommand? Doesn’t thatcontradictyourideaitisthose L’Express: Butitishewhomakesthedecision. That isquiteanuncomfortablewaytotravel. he needstopress thebuttonifneeded. when welimit ourselvestodescribethepresent. I believethatwearea already beingapocalyptic other areas. years before theiradvent,beitinscience, beitin In fact,allnovelelementsare alwayspresent 100 past thatwasn’t already there 100years before. mention somethingthathashappenedinthe years hasalready happened.We are unableto tomorrow. Allthatcanhappeninthenext100 M. McLuhan:Thefuture isnow, there isno L’Express: Howdoyouseetomorrow? have tobelonginametropolis. that isnolongerneeded.Andyoudon’t even so thatpassengerscandisembark.With thecar, track, passbythestations,railwayhubs, car thanonatrain.Trains needtostayonthe Hence, wefeelmuchmore independentina the influenceofmajorcentralorganization. Britain. Regionsnolongerwanttobeunder world, inNorthernIreland, France,and We currently seethisinallcountriesthe
the past? be thefutureisactuallyacertain nostalgiafor L’Express: Doesthismeanthatwhatseemsto return. tenants, buttheywillnot have justabandonedthem.Theyare stillownersor square kilometersofemptyflatswhose residents a condemnedcity. InSaintLouisthere are many to getback.Itisasthoughtheywere leavingbehind flats, leaveeverythingandsimplygo away, never urban centers.Theyabandonfurniture inthe and otherUScities,peopleare startingtoleave This isalready whatishappening.InSaintLouis simply abandonit,letitgetrotten. They willnottrytoimprove it;rather, theywill world,toleaveitexactlywhere itis. this leave will probably getthere. Whattheywilldoisto There are manyyoungpeoplewhowishitand something easytodo. about itwilltakeyounowhere, sinceitisnot M. McLuhan:Ofcourse,butsimplydreaming in thehumandimension. L’Express: And,likethem,youalsowanttolive why youngpeopleturntosmallthings. form ofmuchsmaller, simpleelements.Thisis human dimension,reaction tendstocomeinthe time insideanairplane.Whenyouviolatethe we canaccept.No-onewouldliketospendallthe perception. Butobviouslythere isalimittowhat communication, myrole issimplytoorganize McLuhan:Asastudentofthemeans M. like amanfrompasttimes. L’Express: You givetheimpressionofspeaking
10/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. record ofwhathasbeengoingon. possible satire, forme,seemstobe simply a observation ofwhatisgoingon.Thegreatest ofsatire basedessentiallyonthe consists that But there isalsoasignificantpartofmyjob other, itisduetosatisfaction,orevendisgust. On theonehand,thisisduetosurprise;on understood alongtimebefore –Istarttolaugh. a discovery–somethingwecouldhave M. McLuhan:Idon’t know. WhenImake your senseofhumor. impression thatonceofyourmaindefensesis L’Express: Listeningtoyou,wehavethe human dimensionalsodisappearsthere. – themostvariedandcomprehensive ones.The in theworldwelivein.We havemanyrewards they canstayveryrich.Thisiswhathappens their creditors spendafortunetoensure that have apenny. Buttheyowesomuchmoneythat Hughes, owethousandsofdollarsanddonot Some oftherichestmentoday, suchasHoward rich. So,whatcantheadvantagesofwealthbe? the poorhaveaccesstosameservicesas buy are free for theverypoor. Roughlyspeaking, dollars ayeartoday. Mostservicestherichcan It islikeaveryrichmanwhomakes100,000 absolutely anything,theyjustgiveup. And whenpeopleare sure theyare notgaining all ourtechniques,inventions,knowledgeetc.? critique ofrewards. Whathavewegainedfrom M. McLuhan:Ithinktodayweare ledtomakea Folly believing that when you praise follies they Folly believing thatwhenyoupraisefollies they Erasmus, asiswellknown,wrote The Praiseof
After all,Marxisamanofthe 19 solved andthere wouldbepeacein theworld. the samelivingstandards everything wouldbe men hadthesameamountoffoodavailableand categories ofconsumers.Theybelievethatifall the 19 in termsofhardware, thatis,theybelongin been abletounderstandsofar, assesseverything M. McLuhan:Peopleontheleft,forwhatIhave today’s world? Can’t itbringasolutiontotheproblemsof L’Express: Whataboutrevolutionarythought? Today electricityispresent timeforprimitives. for anthropology, whichisthestudyofprimitives. together withit,thepassionofwholeworld Rousseau andothers.Thencameelectricityand, to demonstratefeelingsfortheprimitive,suchas when theystartedtoadore thenoblesavageand cultural forms,whichstartedwiththeromantics We experiencedahugeregressive evolutionof action, nottochangeit. old tragedies,whichexistsonlytocommentonan exerted. Iidentifymyselfmore withthechorusin regarding the influenceIexertormayhave that couldleadtoanything.Ihavenoillusions that is–matterstoomuch,sinceIdon’t think I couldthinkorfeelaboutsomething–whatever On theotherhand,itdoesn’t seemtomethatwhat disappear, explode. absurdity ofourworld,maybethatabsurdity can kind ofhumorandcanattracttheattentionto explode anddisappear. Ibelievethat,ifhavethat isn’t aman of theelectricage.SoIamnot very th century. Theyuseasbasisverysimple
th century. He 11/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. What ChinaandRussiawantisthe19 are angry. Theyhavethefeelingofbeingintegrated. life formany. Mostpeoplefeelfulfilledwhenthey indignation. We knowthatangerbecameawayof Moreover, IbelievetheyuseMarxasameansof preventing itfrom going“where itisat”. the factthattheyretain toomuchattention, concerned withpeopleontheleft,exceptfor And neitherdoesAfrica:itseeksthe19 Barrington Nevitt,isanelectricalengineerand M. McLuhan:Notexactly. Theco-author, management? L’Express: Soitisabookaboutcorporate hostile toinnovations,newideas. are interested inreputation and,therefore, are very what ishappening.Incontrast,universitytheorists interested intheirownsurvival,theywanttoknow ideas thananyothergroup. Sincemanagersare that managementteamswere more opentonew origins alongtimeago,whenIstartedtorealize world, indifferent cultures. Thisbookhasits of decision-makingmechanismsinthewhole M. McLuhan:Itisaboutthetransformation about? dedicated totheindustrialworld.Whatisit book, L’Express: You havejustfinishedwriting a Chinese andtheRussiandon’t wantthe20 Take today-theexecutiveasdropout, 24 February 2012 Received on: th th century. century. The th century.
1. Translated intoPortuguese byDéboraFleck. Note is likeaddingfueltothefire. countries: inChina,theMuslimworld,India.It allow theradiotobepresent inunderdeveloped as awholeinstateofebullition.Itiscrazyto produces Hitlersallthetimeandleavessociety The radioisa“hot”meansofcommunication.It watched once,andthenhewouldbeover. have tobe“cool”,calm.Hitlerwouldbeen on TVyoucan’t clenchyourfistandshout. You longer thanaonetimeTVappearance,because Hitler wouldn’t havesurvivedpoliticallyfor replace itbytelevision.Immediately. You see, East, theywouldneedtosilencetheradioand wanted toimprove thesituationinMiddle M. McLuhan:Ofcourse.Forexample,ifthey current situation? can give,atthepoliticallevel,toimprove L’Express: Isthereanypieceofadviceyou or indirect interest. industry onwhichhehasnottakenadirect problem thathasemerged intheworldof and speaks12languages.Sothere isnota vast experienceindifferent bureaucracies Britain, andtheUnitedStates.Hehasa years inScandinavia,Russia,SouthAmerica, consultant tocompanies.Hehasspentmany Approved on: Approved 24 February 2012
12/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. TRADUÇÃO |SieniCamposeRobertFinnegan EDITORAÇÃO ELETRÔNICA |RokaEstúdio SECRETÁRIA EXECUTIVA |JulianaDepiné EDIÇÃO DE TEXTOERESUMOS|SusaneBarros Édison Gastaldo, UniversidadeFederal RuraldoRiodeJaneiro, Brasil CONSULTORES ADHOC Felipe CostaTrotta |UniversidadeFederal dePernambuco, Brasil Adriana Braga|Pontifícia doRiodeJaneiro, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil COMISSÃO EDITORIAL José AfonsodaSilva Junior, UniversidadeFederal dePernambuco, Brasil John DHDowning, Universityof Texas at Austin, EstadosUnidos João FreireFilho, UniversidadeFederal doRiodeJaneiro, Brasil Jeder SilveiraJanottiJunior, UniversidadeFederal dePernambuco, Brasil Jay DavidBolter, GeorgiaInstituteof Technology Janice Caiafa, UniversidadeFederal doRiodeJaneiro, Brasil Inês Vitorino, UniversidadeFederal doCeará, Brasil Ieda Tucherman, UniversidadeFederal doRiodeJaneiro, Brasil Herom Vargas, UniversidadeMunicipaldeSãoCaetanodoSul, Brasil Hector Ospina, UniversidaddeManizales, Colômbia Gustavo DaudtFischer, Universidadedo Vale doRiodosSinos, Brasil Guillermo OrozcoGómez, UniversidaddeGuadalajara Gislene daSilva, UniversidadeFederal deSantaCatarina, Brasil Gilson Vieira Monteiro, UniversidadeFederal do Amazonas, Brasil Gelson Santana, Universidade Anhembi/Morumbi, Brasil Francisco EduardoMenezesMartins,Universidade Tuiuti doParaná, Brasil Florence Dravet, deBrasília, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil Erick Felinto deOliveira, UniversidadedoEstadoRiodeJaneiro, Brasil Eneus Trindade, UniversidadedeSãoPaulo, Brasil Eduardo Vicente, UniversidadedeSãoPaulo, Brasil Eduardo Peñuela Cañizal, UniversidadePaulista, Brasil Edilson Cazeloto, UniversidadePaulista , Brasil Denize CorreaAraujo, Universidade Tuiuti doParaná, Brasil Denilson Lopes, UniversidadeFederal doRiodeJaneiro, Brasil Cristiane FreitasGutfreind, Pontifícia doRioGrandeSul, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil César GeraldoGuimarães, UniversidadeFederal deMinasGerais, Brasil Benjamim Picado, UniversidadeFederal Fluminense, Brasil Arthur AutranFrancodeSáNeto, UniversidadeFederal deSãoCarlos, Brasil Arlindo RibeiroMachado, UniversidadedeSãoPaulo, Brasil Antonio RobertoChiachiriFilho, Faculdade CásperLíbero, Brasil Antonio CarlosHohlfeldt, Pontifícia doRioGrandeSul, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil Antônio Fausto Neto, Universidadedo Vale doRiodosSinos, Brasil Angela CristinaSalgueiroMarques, Faculdade CásperLíbero(SãoPaulo), Brasil ,Ângela FreirePrysthon UniversidadeFederal dePernambuco, Brasil André LuizMartinsLemos, UniversidadeFederal daBahia, Brasil Ana SilviaLopesDaviMédola, UniversidadeEstadualPaulista, Brasil Ana Gruszynski, UniversidadeFederal doRioGrandeSul, Brasil doRioGrandeSul,Católica Brasil Ana CarolinaDamboriarenaEscosteguy, Pontifícia Universidade Alex Fernando Teixeira Primo, UniversidadeFederal doRioGrandeSul, Brasil Alberto CarlosAugustoKlein, UniversidadeEstadualdeLondrina, Brasil Afonso Albuquerque, UniversidadeFederal Fluminense, Brasil CONSELHO EDITORIAL em instituiçõesdoBrasileexterior. produção acadêmicadepesquisadoresdaáreaComunicação, inseridos (Compós). Lançadaem2004, temcomoprincipalfinalidadedifundira Associação NacionaldosProgramasdePós-GraduaçãoemComunicação eletrônicoda A revistaE-Compóséapublicaçãocientíficaemformato Expediente [email protected] Universidade Federal doCeará, Brasil Inês Vitorino Secretária-Geral [email protected] Universidade Federal daBahia, Brasil Itania MariaMotaGomes Vice-presidente [email protected] Pontifícia deMinasGerais, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil Julio Pinto Presidente Associação NacionaldosProgramasdePós-GraduaçãoemComunicação COMPÓS |www.compos.org.br Vera ReginaVeiga França, UniversidadeFederal deMinasGerais, Brasil Veneza MayoraRonsini, UniversidadeFederal deSantaMaria, Brasil Valerio FuenzalidaFernández, Puc-Chile, Chile Vera ReginaVeiga França, UniversidadeFederal deMinasGerais, Brasil Veneza MayoraRonsini, UniversidadeFederal deSantaMaria, Brasil Valerio FuenzalidaFernández, Puc-Chile, Chile Valério CruzBrittos, Universidadedo Vale doRiodosSinos, Brasil Suzete Venturelli, UniversidadedeBrasília, Brasil Tiago QuirogaFausto Neto, UniversidadedeBrasília, Brasil Simone MariaAndradePereira deSá, UniversidadeFederal Fluminense, Brasil do Norte, Brasil Sebastião GuilhermeAlbanodaCosta, UniversidadeFederal doRioGrande Sebastião CarlosdeMoraisSquirra, UniversidadeMetodistadeSãoPaulo, Brasil Rousiley CeliMoreiraMaia, UniversidadeFederal deMinasGerais, Brasil Rossana Reguillo, InstitutodeEstudosSuperioresdoOcidente, Mexico Rose MeloRocha, eMarketing, EscolaSuperiordePropaganda Brasil Rosana deLimaSoares, UniversidadedeSãoPaulo, Brasil Ronaldo GeorgeHelal, UniversidadedoEstadoRiodeJaneiro, Brasil Robert KLogan, Universityof Toronto, Canadá Renato CordeiroGomes, Pontifícia doRiodeJaneiro, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil Potiguara MendesSilveiraJr, UniversidadeFederal deJuizFora, Brasil Paulo RobertoGibaldiVaz, UniversidadeFederal doRiodeJaneiro, Brasil Nilda AparecidaJacks, UniversidadeFederal doRioGrandeSul, Brasil Mauro Pereira Porto, Tulane University, EstadosUnidos Mauro deSouzaVentura, UniversidadeEstadualPaulista, Brasil Maria LuizaMartinsdeMendonça, UniversidadeFederal deGoiás, Brasil Maria ImmacolataVassallo deLopes, UniversidadedeSãoPaulo, Brasil Maria dasGraçasPintoCoelho, UniversidadeFederal doRioGrandeNorte, Brasil eMarketing,Propaganda Brasil Maria AparecidaBaccega, UniversidadedeSãoPaulo eEscolaSuperiorde Márcio deVasconcellos Serelle , Pontifícia deMinasGerais, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil Malena SeguraContrera, UniversidadePaulista, Brasil Luiz ClaudioMartino, UniversidadedeBrasília, Brasil Luciana Panke, UniversidadeFederal doParaná, Brasil Lucia Leão, Pontifícia deSãoPaulo, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil Lorraine Leu,UniversityofBristol, Grã-Bretanha Lance Strate, Fordham University, USA, EstadosUnidos Laan MendesBarros, UniversidadeMetodistadeSãoPaulo, Brasil Juremir MachadodaSilva, Pontifícia doRioGrandeSul, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil José LuizWarren JardimGomes Braga, Universidadedo Vale doRiodosSinos, Brasil José LuizAidarPrado, Pontifícia deSãoPaulo, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil José CarlosRodrigues, Pontifícia doRiodeJaneiro, UniversidadeCatólica Brasil passa aservolumeanualcomtrêsnúmeros. A identificaçãodasedições, apartirde2008, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011. de Pós-GraduaçãoemComunicação. Revista da Associação NacionaldosProgramas E-COMPÓS |www.e-compos.org.br |E-ISSN1808-2599 13/13 Revista da Associação Nacional dos Programas de Pós-Graduação em Comunicação | E-compós, Brasília, v.14, n.3, set./dez. 2011.