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Host: Welcome to The Luminary Series by Darlinghurst Theatre Company, a podcast exploring creativity and resilience in life and theatre. Before we begin, we would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, and pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging. Sovereignty was never ceded. This land always was and always will be Aboriginal land. And now, let's get into the episode.

Wendy Mocke: Hello, thank you for joining us on another episode of The Luminary Podcast. My name is Wendy Mocke. I am a Papua New Guinean woman. My tribes are the Naur-Gorr and Karisokra tribes of Madang and Chimbu Province. I'm Zooming in from Meanjin on the unceded lands of the Turrbal and Jagera people. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. I'm super excited and not going to lie, low key going to vomit on myself because I will be talking to the one and only Elaine Crombie.

Wendy Mocke: Elaine is an actor, singer, songwriter and writer with a career that spans over 20 years with extensive theater and on-screen work. So basically, what I have with me is an absolute weapon of a woman who might I add is currently on stage with Theatre Company starring in The 7 stages of grieving. Elaine Crombie, welcome. How are you?

Elaine Crombie: Yay! Thank you, Wendy. Hi.

Wendy Mocke: How you doing? I know it's a two-show day for you today, and we're catching you on your break. How are you feeling? Are you getting any sleep?

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, I'm getting good sleeps. I'm staying at a friend's place when I come up to Sydney, and I'm also staying down at my sister's in . And so, I'm also eating at the moment if you hear a rustle of papers, or you think, "What is she eating?" I'm currently eating McDonald's.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, my gosh, and I am living for it. Might I ask, Elaine, what did you order at McDonald's? I am very interested.

Elaine Crombie: So I ordered a large BTS meal. And the BTS meal is basically 10 nuggets with spicy sauces, and I've just gone in to find out what the sauces are. So the sauces are Cajun and Sweet Chili.

Wendy Mocke: Oh my gosh.

Elaine Crombie: And look how cute they are, like they're little cute-

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Wendy Mocke: Oh my gosh, it's so cute. Look at McDonald's really trying to...

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, diversify their menu. And then I always get a backup of a double cheeseburger or double cheeseburgers. It's my little go-to stomach liner before I... Because I'm not sure of a feed, let me tell you. And so, yeah, it's always my little adage because I think, "Oh, I might still be hungry, so if I get an extra little burger then I'm okay."

Wendy Mocke: Oh, this looks even... So your double cheeseburger is like my little Filet-O-Fish burger.

Elaine Crombie: Oh, okay.

Wendy Mocke: I'm a Filet-O-Fish kind of gal. My friends always pay me out. They're like, "That is the weakest McDonald's option you could go for." And I'm like, "You reckon? You think?"

Elaine Crombie: Well, do you ask for tomato and lettuce on top of it as well?

Wendy Mocke: No, I don't. Why? Is that a thing? Do people do that?

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, we used to do that like years and years and years ago when I was living in .

Wendy Mocke: Oh, shoot.

Elaine Crombie: We would go through and my friend Barbara Borer, when we'd go through she'd always ask for a Filet- O-Fish and add tomato and lettuce on it. So it was just like a little fresh burger. You should try it.

Wendy Mocke: Oh my gosh. I had no idea that you could do that. This is actually blowing my mind. Okay.

Elaine Crombie: And then have you ever swapped out the meat patties for chicken patties on a Big Mac-

Wendy Mocke: What?

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Elaine Crombie: So you can get a Chicken Big Mac?

Wendy Mocke: Oh, wait. Are you serious?

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, they're the best thing in the world.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, my God. Okay, sorry. I'm literally losing... I did not realise that you had like that was a choice, that you could swap out things and basically build a new burger. Wow!

Elaine Crombie: Yeah.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, my God, this is changing my life.

Elaine Crombie: But you should definitely try that.

Wendy Mocke: I will. Thank you. This is now-

Elaine Crombie: You should definitely add the tomato and the lettuce for sure.

Wendy Mocke: I'm going to add... Yeah, you're right. Give it like a little bit of freshness and then that way I could feel like I'm eating things that are actually good for me and not feel...

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, that's right.

Wendy Mocke: So 2021 has been a bit of a stop, start year for a lot of us in the industry. So is this the first sort of time that you've been on stage since sort of the pandemic or?

Elaine Crombie: Well, I knew I was coming over to do this one-woman show, and so at Fringe Festival earlier this year, I presented my one-woman show called Janet's Vagrant Love. And that was I had probably eight shows of that. I won the Melbourne Tour-Ready Award for Melbourne Fringe.

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Wendy Mocke: Oh, congratulations. That's incredible.

Elaine Crombie: Thank you.

Wendy Mocke: Yeah.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah. So I have been on set. And March Madness in is amazing. Everybody should come down and just chuck any little show together and just come down for March. Do you know, like that's right?

Wendy Mocke: So that one-woman show, is that a show that you wrote and you created yourself and then... Wow. Wow.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah.

Wendy Mocke: Okay.

Elaine Crombie: So I wrote that while I was doing Barbara and the Camp Dogs with Ursula and Troy Brady. And after the tour had finished with Urs and Troy and the mob, then I went over to... I come back to Adelaide and presented it for the first time in 2019 with Adelaide Cabaret Festival with Julia Zemiro.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, [crosstalk 00:06:51]. Yeah. Was that your sort of first time to perform a one-woman show that you wrote and created yourself?

Elaine Crombie: Yeah.

Wendy Mocke: Wow.

Elaine Crombie: It was my first time being a true independent artist, even earlier this year hassling for using all of my friendships and stuff like that going, "Hey, can someone come and direct me? Hey, can I get in this theatre? Hey, Michel, can I borrow... Can I come and look through the props closet at SISTC, yeah?" Yeah, so it was good. It was the first time, but I've been very blessed in the fact that I've not had to be a

Darlo podcast no8 (Completed 07/09/21) Page 4 of 20 Transcript by Rev.com This transcript was exported on Jul 09, 2021 - view latest version here. true independent artist up until now. I've been really blessed to be working in productions, working in theatre companies, and yeah.

Wendy Mocke: [crosstalk 00:07:59]. I guess then kind of venturing into sort of being an independent artist, how was that process for you? How did you find that?

Elaine Crombie: It was good. It was a bit confronting at times, and a bit really easy because you've got no one to kind of crack the whip on you. And so, and but also I learned huge lessons, like the first night I opened I probably called for line 10 times, it was crazy.

Wendy Mocke: Wow. Yeah.

Elaine Crombie: And I've never done that my whole... I've been very, I've kind of prided myself just quietly like, "Oh, no, my lines." And if not, I'll be able to fake my way out of it. But yeah, no. I mean, it was the same with the opening night for The 7 Stages of Grieving. I had called for line like three times, and I just couldn't believe it. I was like-

Wendy Mocke: Wow.

Elaine Crombie: "Girl, bitch, what are you doing, man? Are you serious?" But that just kind of made me then I just also thought, "Oh, look, that's life. Who cares? You know what I mean?"

Wendy Mocke: Absolutely.

Elaine Crombie: I'm blessed to do what I do. I enjoy, I love what I do, so and not a lot of people can say that. And so, it's not like work for me.

Wendy Mocke: 100%. And funny, I was talking about this with another actor a couple of weeks ago about like there was some show months ago and just something had happened and someone had called a line or something. And it was just that moment of as an actor you're like, "Oh my gosh!" You think like, "I've fucked it." Oh, sorry. "This is now I'm terrible. This is not how professional creative operate, blah, blah, blah." And then I was thinking, "You know what, it's like theatre. It's happening before your eyes," and I just feel like, I don't know. I think some of that mindset may need to change about the way that what we expect. Anyway, that's just my opinion, but-

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Elaine Crombie: Yeah, there was probably at Fringe Festival there was maybe 10 or 15 people in the audience, and I said to all of them, I was like, "Trust me, you're getting a once in a lifetime show. This is something you can remember forever, it will never happen again."

Wendy Mocke: Yeah. Each night in the moment, it's always going to be different. It's just what it is. That's just the nature of when you're doing these shows. I mean also, props off to you. As an actor myself, I honestly the idea of doing a one-woman show, to me that that gives me... That makes me nervous. And so I always like you've done back to back one-woman shows because it's sort of do you almost feel like you doing your own woman show prepared you for 7 Stages?

Elaine Crombie: Yeah. [crosstalk 00:11:23] Harry and I [inaudible 00:11:25] I said, "I'm pulling out Janet's Vagrant Love because I know that I'm going to need to build my stamina, get used to being on stage, get used to telling a story and holding an audience for an hour, and not fail in doing so."

Wendy Mocke: But yeah, it's interesting how the universe operates, how series of events play out and almost feel like those things were meant to happen so that you're able to just lead in to the other to prepare you for that I guess, in a way.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah.

Wendy Mocke: Yeah. So yeah, props off to you. And also, I'm hearing just remarkable reviews, so you're obviously just smashing it and doing a fantastic job. So congratulations on-

Elaine Crombie: Thank you.

Wendy Mocke: On The 7 Stages. No worries. So if it's all right with you, I want to switch gears a little bit. Is it all right if we talk about the year that was 2020?

Elaine Crombie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Wendy Mocke: Yeah. I want to know how did... Now, 2020 was a wild ride for everybody in the world. How did you and your family deal with I guess, the bin fire that was last year.

Elaine Crombie:

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So it was odd. It was starting to feel very Handmaid's Tale in some ways. It was like, "Why are people telling us what to do? And why are we doing it?" And then also trying to navigate the boys, my two sons. I have two sons, 17 and 15.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, my gosh, teenagers.

Elaine Crombie: Trying to navigate them to stay the hell home. Don't go out with your mates. If you're going to go out, then make sure that you come home, wash your clothes, have a shower, change into something fresh. I mean, in a lot of ways, it was just... I mean, it just all made us aware of cleanliness as well and wash your hands, all of that kind of stuff. But I suppose for me it was, being in it was a little bit different. I've probably had five or six COVID tests in the last year-

Wendy Mocke: Wow.

Elaine Crombie: Because I've been driving back and forth to Broken Hill to do different production. Broken Hill kind of turned into a little bubble. And all the productions were out there filming, so I did lose work because of 7 Stages was meant to be on last year. And then, but I also, it was still okay. I mean, I worked for the union as well, and so all of our meetings just went online, everything just kind of went online and in Zoom world and stuff like that. And then me working, going to Broken Hill was... Excuse me. Was okay. I just anytime I'd come back from Broken Hill, I'd have to do a two week-

Wendy Mocke: A quarantine.

Elaine Crombie: Quarantine, and then there would be another, then I'd have to go back out again for other things. So it was while some people had really terrible years, mine just kind of slowed right down, which was also nice just to do that.

Wendy Mocke: Yeah. So that was my next question I was going to ask you was that if you were sort of working on anything when COVID hit and we all had to kind of shut up shop for a bit there.

Elaine Crombie: No. The only thing that was The 7 Stages. Yeah.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, yep. So it had to get postponed and sort of rescheduled to this year. Now, you mentioned that you have two teenage boys, which I mean, whoa, I don't know how you do it. I've got an 11 year old daughter, and so she's 11 going on to 21. So we're kind of in that period where the puberty hormones

Darlo podcast no8 (Completed 07/09/21) Page 7 of 20 Transcript by Rev.com This transcript was exported on Jul 09, 2021 - view latest version here. are starting to kick in now, and it's a little bit of that energy in our house. So did you, last year did you have to play teacher as well, during like the, oh, thoughts you were lucky?

Elaine Crombie: No. I mean, I suppose there was, I don't actually know if they ever stopped sending the kids to school. I think there was a moment there where it happened, but yeah, I don't think it was like a long, long period of time.

Wendy Mocke: Right, that's excellent. I unfortunately was in Melbourne for most of 2020. And so we were in lockdown for seven, eight months.

Elaine Crombie: Oh, my God.

Wendy Mocke: And it was... I'm still trying to work through some of that stuff from last year, but yeah, I had to do a lot of homeschooling. And I was like-

Elaine Crombie: How was that?

Wendy Mocke: Okay, I'm not going to lie. I was thinking about the thought of having that first glass of wine was getting earlier and earlier every day. And then I was like, to all the parents, it was so funny, every parent that I would contact with homework and stuff, everyone would be like, "We're not okay. Everyone is..." I was like, "I gave birth. I didn't intend to teach them." I thought I would just send them off and they'd be learning the things in the school, but so it was a bit of a nightmare, but my daughter was like, "Mum, don't you ever teach again? I don't think you're cut out to be a teacher." And I was like, "I absolutely agree." So I want to ask you because you've been working consistently, you have two boys. What's it like being a parent and working in this industry?

Elaine Crombie: It's hard some days. There's times where I just want to be home, I just want to be closer to the boys. I live in Adelaide now. And because they're getting older, pretty soon they're going to be wanting to just have their own lives away from me, I suppose. And so, when the boys were younger, it was easier just to... When the boys were younger, it was easier just to manipulate them to go, "Come on now. Chuck your things in the car, we're going to Sydney. Mum's got a job." Or, "Come on we're going to back to Port Pirie now, jobs are over. It was like that. So they've probably attended one, two, three, maybe four schools here in-

Wendy Mocke: Wow.

Elaine Crombie:

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Four, five, six schools in New South Wales.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, my gosh.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah.

Wendy Mocke: Wow. Yeah.

Elaine Crombie: Between Sydney and Wollongong.

Wendy Mocke: Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Yeah, in talking to other actors that are parents as well, it's just there's just that struggle of always trying to... Because you do, you do want to be more present and be there and all that, but then our careers and the nature of our work it's like here, you could be shooting here or this theatre company wants you here or so it's always just like... And when you have young children it's, my daughter as well in the last couple years she switched to two schools. And yeah, and it was just that struggle. And also feeling that guilt as a mom as well, you're just like, "Oh, am I making the right decisions?" And yeah.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, I used to feel guilty, and then I just one day stopped it. I was like-

Wendy Mocke: Yeah, right.

Elaine Crombie: "Everybody else is also going to make us feel guilty in some way"-

Wendy Mocke: So true.

Elaine Crombie: "And you just have to..." And so now I don't care. And I'm older now too, so if my kids are getting in trouble, like my eldest son has been in trouble with the police, but also they've also attended marches since they were young, and they're well aware that their cousin died in police custody and stuff like that. So they're also hyper aware of what it is for young black men to grow up in today's society. And I suppose, being in the position that I've always been in, and my profile is very much out there and stuff like that, I just have to keep on working for my people as well as my kids.

Elaine Crombie:

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And so it's always been, I mean it has been hard, but I've always been that mother that's never been hyper aware of her kids either. This is life, so just let's get cracking. We don't have times like there were times where I was like, "I don't have time for your feelings right now, I've got to do something." And as I've gotten older, when I was filming Top End Wedding I said to the production companies, I was like, "Can I bring my kids up as well? It's holidays, I can't leave them." And it just turned into like a holiday for us as well. So learning to work them into work, it's kind of okay.

Wendy Mocke: Yeah. Also that's beautiful that you were able to do that. What a lovely family getaway. That's amazing. Living out the 2020 and the impacts of the pandemic and how it affected our industry, for you obviously because you were working and you had your one-woman show, did you ever feel pressured during last year to kind of generate more? Like write more, create more because of that there was that sense of the world is kind of in this place where we don't know what's going to happen, and yeah?

Elaine Crombie: Yes and no. When I would be online with different things, different bosses and stuff like that, then it was very much yes, I need to do this, but then where I was living at the time I was out in the country, beautiful sunsets every night, and so doing a cheese board and running out to catch the sunset and then watch the stars light up at night was also really, really lovely to go, "Oh, maybe I don't need to..." Because I also know that when everything was going to come back online with everyone and we were all going to be... It would be shambles and then it'll all level out and we'll all find our place back in whatever world it is we chose. And some people have left the arts altogether and [inaudible 00:24:52], and they're quarantine COVID life over coming back and working in the industry, which is in some way sometimes it's like I'm a bit jealous of that. So, here.

Wendy Mocke: Also the cheese platter and the stars situation that you had going on. Okay, that sounds to me like, I mean, that's bliss. And obviously those moments I guess, during the pandemic as well I was like, "This is what life is, hey." I think those we spent all our time always thinking about work and wanting to, that we forget about those things. It's nice to come back to that.

Elaine Crombie: And I remember the day my friend was with me, and I remember the day I saw the first jets stream, what do you call those? What are those things in the sky behind the planes? Chem trail?

Wendy Mocke: Yes. Yeah, I can't remember what the actual word or whatever. Yeah, it's like the thing you can see in the cloud, yeah.

Elaine Crombie: I remember the first time I saw one of those chem trails and I was just so sad, I was like, "Oh, no, it's all coming back." For a year there was the sky was clear and beautiful, colourful, and then it was like, "Oh, no, what are you doing, you're out first?"

Wendy Mocke:

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Yeah. It so surreal.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah.

Wendy Mocke: And I also like when there was more particularly in Melbourne, when we were in the thick of stage four lockdown, where you couldn't go past your five kilometre radius. And so we live next to a park and it was really delightful. In the afternoons was the park was filled with people and families with their picnic blankets and seeing family sort of spending time with each other and enjoying the outdoors and kids climbing trees. You know what I mean? These days they're busy on their iPads, and I sound my [foreign language 00:27:21] when I say that, but it's literally like coming back to how we used to be as people, as humans.

Elaine Crombie: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. And just even hanging out and talking with the kids and watching video, sitting down to watch marathon movies and stuff like it was... I very much took advantage of that. I was like, "Yes, let's do this."

Wendy Mocke: Okay, so that is a perfect segue into my next question. Do you have any recommendations in terms of binge watching, things that you binge watch and you could recommend to people to watch during a lockdown or [inaudible 00:28:05]?

Elaine Crombie: So all of the Twilights.

Wendy Mocke: Ooh, the Twilights, okay. You're a Twilight fan?

Elaine Crombie: Yeah. I'm a hopeless romantic. All of the Twilights. All of the Avengers?

Wendy Mocke: Yeah. Marvel. Okay. Okay.

Elaine Crombie: All that Marvel Universe. And I also I remember one time I asked a question, and I was like, "Is there a certain order that you need to watch them all in?" I think Allie Murphy Oates answered me, like she did give me a list, so I might have to go back and re-ask her to get that list. Frasier, The Office: American season, Friends, Blackish, Dear White People.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, yeah.

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Elaine Crombie: Yeah, that's all. I'm pretty much when I'm on a mind-numbing rotation, I'm watching Frasier, Friends, and The office: American season. It's all white. It's so white.

Wendy Mocke: I got to be honest with you, it's very white but-

Elaine Crombie: It is.

Wendy Mocke: Well, it's also very like 90s nostalgia. It's very of that time. Okay, just really quickly because now that I know that Elaine Crombie is a Twilight fan, I want to know are you Team Edward or Team Jacob?

Elaine Crombie: I think I'm team Jacob.

Wendy Mocke: Ooh! Well, okay, werewolf. Is that the werewolf guy? Okay.

Elaine Crombie: Yes.

Wendy Mocke: Why [crosstalk 00:30:11] the vampires?

Elaine Crombie: Only because of the Native American thing.

Wendy Mocke: Oh, yes, of course. Of course. I was like, "Is there something about vampires that are not as appealing as werewolves or?"

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, no. Just that.

Wendy Mocke: Just that. All right, cool. So now, let's take about the other pandemic, which is racism. So did the global call against racism impact or change the way that you perceive all your responsibility, your contribution as an artist, particularly as a black artist? Did that last year? Because all those things came to head in terms of like the Black Lives Matter movement all across the world, it was like a global uprising. And so did that sort of impact any of I mean, I think particularly with you, a lot of the stuff, the activism you've

Darlo podcast no8 (Completed 07/09/21) Page 12 of 20 Transcript by Rev.com This transcript was exported on Jul 09, 2021 - view latest version here. been doing it for years and years, but in light of last year's events, did that sort of impact your I guess, your passion or desire to continue to speak about matters to do with the black community?

Elaine Crombie: Oh, yeah, definitely. I remember when it happened, and I just kind of was really... I shared the news, I shared the link and stuff like that. And then as we all did, we just watched it unfold and watched all of these snap actions just start to happen. And I organised one in Port Pirie, which there were some people online that didn't take kindly to it, like people in my hometown and-

Wendy Mocke: No way.

Elaine Crombie: Whatever. And so I just was like, "Oh, you just got to... Port Pirie is a small town so."

Wendy Mocke: Okay. If it's all right to ask, was the kickback mainly to do with just they didn't agree with I guess the Black Lives Matter movement, or was it just..." Okay, right.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, it was definitely just that. It always is just that. People are scared and they don't understand it and they don't want to know about it, and so they just turn into assholes basically, like just ignorant, deaf. Ignorant, no ears, no heart kind of people. Yeah. But it just kind of made me realise, and I took my lead from a lot of my counterparts as well in the industry, Meyne Wyatt, Cherry Stebbins, Guy Simon, [inaudible 00:33:18], a lot of my friends and Luke Currie-Richardson, people that I look up to, Joe Williams and Ashley Donahue. I just followed their lead as well as they were following mine. It was just, we just all support each other in an online way of sharing information about marches and all that kind of stuff that are coming up and whatnot.

Elaine Crombie: And I still just, it was more, it's always more about like I'm just honest, open and honest, I did a lot of lives as well and talked about a lot of things and people would watch. And people saying, "Oh, I love it when you go live and stuff like that." And that is becoming my brand of ways to do things is just to go live and just talk and just have people listen and agree or not agree or think that... And whatever, people might think, "Oh, it's good that you're doing that and using your platform for..." I don't think I could use my platform for anything other than the betterment of my people.

Wendy Mocke: Absolutely.

Elaine Crombie: And I couldn't use it to... I don't think using my platform to get myself ahead in any way is the way to go. I wouldn't know how to do that. The only thing that I know how to do is to I have a strong ethic bone. So to point out unethical situations like black people dying at the hands of cops-

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Wendy Mocke: Absolutely.

Elaine Crombie: And to talk about that, and to unpack that in my life, yeah.

Wendy Mocke: I find it interesting, and I don't know, I mean whatever how you feel about this, I'd love to know your thoughts of just in terms of with the Black Lives Matter of movement as well, and how the killing of George Floyd that was obviously a horrendous thing to witness and that video went viral. But for me it was a bit not weird, but just slightly frustrating for me because a lot of Australians don't recognise that it happens here as well, like black deaths in custody. And so it was just that, I guess because America has such an influence over in terms of Australia and politically what happens here to black bodies and First Nation people. So how did you feel about in terms of do you think that Australia, its response to George Floyd and in terms of their connection to black deaths in custody here? Yeah, how do you feel about that?

Elaine Crombie: I think it's a big game, and that they just go all out for American whatever, and they can't... The latest death in custody was the 20th of May this year, but nobody knows about that. And yet, they want to make a big scene about it on all mainstream media, like it's just, it's crazy. It's you look at it, and you go, what are you guys doing? You look stupid. You look really dumb.

Wendy Mocke: You look stupid. It's that performative allyship that just really, I'm just like, "You all are just people. All you guys are just scared, that's what it is. You're all just scared." And then like in black squares, it's just like, oh.

Elaine Crombie: Yes.

Wendy Mocke: It's yeah, because I mean, I had a lot of people that I follow on social media and acquaintances or whatever and they never said nothing about Black Lives Matter or anything like that. And then when that situation blew up, all of a sudden, biggest allies, biggest flag, and I'm just like, "Oh, okay, so it took..." Anyway, so it's just really interesting to me, and so I just wanted to sort of gauge your opinion.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And it's like, and it takes me... So the other day my friend made a comment about Jojo Zaho getting sent off within the first episode of-

Wendy Mocke: RuPaul?

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Elaine Crombie: RuPaul. And she kind of dragged her. And I got on my cell and I was like, "Now what we're not going to do is drag Jojo." Because she was kind of like saying, "Oh, really, Australia? Is this the best we have?" And I was like, "Hang on a second."

Wendy Mocke: No, no. Mm-mm (negative).

Elaine Crombie: [inaudible 00:38:32] What this is for a minute. And we had this long fucking... And this was me educating one person who I went to school with-

Wendy Mocke: Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord.

Elaine Crombie: For it stretched over two hours. It was tiring to make her realise and understand. And she was like, "Well, I thought I was..." And I knew the way she was typing it she said, "Well, I thought I was just commenting on a drag show." And I was like, "Well, that's your privilege that you hold that you think that you're just commenting on a drag show." This is about uplifting black queer queens and also looking at this whole systemic problem and the fact that she got voted off first. And then Coco Jumbo got voted off. However long it took for Coco jumbo to be voted off. And then the only person that gets invited back is a white girl. It's like, no, I don't think RuPaul's Drag Race the entity, because I'm sure it is not just him anymore. It's a brand. It's a business. It's a machine.

Wendy Mocke: Yeah.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, it's a machine. And I think that they've lost their way in the fact that the only reason that they have a space to do that is because of a black trans woman.

Wendy Mocke: Right? The way that these people don't understand that a lot of these movements and a lot of these changes is from the black queer community, like you know what I mean?

Elaine Crombie: Yes.

Wendy Mocke: Yeah, it's just wild to me how much-

Elaine Crombie:

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Yeah. And so, and it's like hang on a second, what are you talking about? You can't drag Jojo for you don't know the situation of her lace was showing and all that kind of stuff. And my friend went to go in for all of that and I was like, "Yeah, yeah, fair enough. I get it, we need to be polished and all this kind of stuff, but also it is a machine and I just wasn't going to have her drag Jojo and have a big whole opinion piece on Jojo Zaho without understanding her privilege," and but to educate her took me far from two hours. It was hard.

Wendy Mocke: Two hours. Can I just say, the way that black women always come in to school people and the amount of labor that black women do on the daily. I'm just like, black women, essentially, we're saving the day, we're saving the fucking world all the time. It's powerful to know about that. So, okay, cool. So I've got another question. So the ripples from the global protest against systemic racism disrupted our industry or industries across [inaudible 00:41:42], across the world. And so we witnessed reckonings across like the screen industry, academia, publishing, journalism, music, food, fashion, visual arts. My question is to you, what does representation look like?

Elaine Crombie: In regards to?

Wendy Mocke: So because last year we had, like there were people that called out the industry in terms of their lack of diversity, and just in terms of the way that there was like with the whole situation with Naida, and then there was also... So there was a ripple effect from having those conversations. So, and because you are on, because you do work with MEAAs, is that am I right to say that?

Elaine Crombie: Yeah.

Wendy Mocke: So, in terms of representation and how we want to achieve representation in our industry, what would representation look like to you?

Elaine Crombie: I think it'll just look like more black fellows employed from admin front of house through to actors on stage, workers behind stage, writers, directors, admin. It's that whole, it's just more, seeing more. And it is happening, there's a lot of young ones coming up and stuff like that. And it's really good to see even at Sydney Theatre Company, there's a young black fella working in the workshop that's [crosstalk 00:43:38].

Wendy Mocke: Oh, cool.

Elaine Crombie: And it's cool, like I get to work, I'm like, "Hey, Jack. How are you?" Saying hello to him and stuff, and it's good, it is good.

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Wendy Mocke: That's amazing. So, because I think sometimes as black artists you witness these things, certain opportunities and runes, and you think that we're getting closer, and then things happen and you realise, "Oh, are we? Are we even making a change? And are we getting closer or is it even..." Do you think representation is possible?

Elaine Crombie: Yes. The short answer is yes.

Wendy Mocke: Yes.

Elaine Crombie: And I don't know what the longer answer is because I just know that it's yes. And it's 2021, we shouldn't have to be reschooling stage theatres, production companies. And it is frustrating that we do still have to have this conversation And I sometimes get to a point where I'm just not going to, I can't talk about it anymore. I'm just going to do what I do with the kids and just worry about myself and my kids. And I suppose that by way of doing that is just like, that's just about me regrouping-

Wendy Mocke: Yes. Absolutely.

Elaine Crombie: So that I can go back out and yeah. I think it's a big, loaded question that one. It's not a new question. It sounds easy, and it sounds very yes or no, but what is it that you're... How many times are we going to have to ask that question? How many times in an interview am I going to have to answer that question? Is that going to be asked? Why isn't still being asked?

Wendy Mocke: Exactly.

Elaine Crombie: What's happening? Why is it still being-

Wendy Mocke: Absolutely

Elaine Crombie: Questioned? And I know what it needs to be fixed, but why hasn't it been fixed yet?

Wendy Mocke: 100. Let me ask you, Elaine, because you do a lot in terms of your work is the way that you speak your truth to power, and there's the projects that you've been involved with, and the stories that you've told. So there's a lot of obviously, particularly with black artists and First Nation artists, we carry a lot of the

Darlo podcast no8 (Completed 07/09/21) Page 17 of 20 Transcript by Rev.com This transcript was exported on Jul 09, 2021 - view latest version here. responsibility of our communities on our shoulders, and it's just... So my question is how do you as a black artist look after and practice self-care during these moments where you essentially, particularly black women, you've got to take care of ourselves? So how do you look after yourself?

Elaine Crombie: It starts out with a lot of laying in bed watching Frasier, The Office. And I talked with my friend about it. I was like, "If I spend a whole day watching Friends, I know that it's going to reset something in me. I've watched that. I've been friends, and even Gilmore Girls like very white. Like I'm just, I wish I had the privilege that I have for the taste of shows that I watch, my gosh, but it's that I know all of those episodes inside out, I know what to expect by way of feeling. Nothing's going to be thrown at a curveball for me.

Elaine Crombie: If I'm watching a whole season of Friends during the day, I know my emotional levels are going to be okay throughout the day. And this is at the start of me resting and recouping, you know what I mean? I know all the scenes, I know what to expect, I know what to feel. And so, that's kind of the first step of what that is. The next step is things plucking my eyebrows, shaving my face, getting the little abrasion in there and just [crosstalk 00:48:18]-

Wendy Mocke: Them abrasions, love it.

Elaine Crombie: Face masks, all that kind of stuff. Roping the kids in to do face masks, and the hanging out with the boys, doing things, spending money on them even though it's that's my self-care. It's like, as long as my kids are stunting in ways that I could never when I was their age, then-

Wendy Mocke: Hell, yeah. Yep.

Elaine Crombie: That's what I'm working towards. Yeah. That's my self-care.

Wendy Mocke: So looking forward and inward, I would like to know what gives you joy and peace?

Elaine Crombie: What gives me joy-

Wendy Mocke: And peace.

Elaine Crombie:

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And peace? Silence. Silence, being outdoors, being alone outdoors. It's watching a sunset, especially. I would sit at the back of my house and I would, and I'm pretty sure, I don't know, I would feel like I would crack open my heart space and just let it bathe in the sunset and I would be okay. I don't know, there was just, I can't explain it properly. But it is, it's just that. It's looking at beauty, looking at nature in beauty that is what brings me the most peace. Being on the road. And even with like mom, nan and the boys in the car driving over to Western Australia or somewhere like that, having that thing of going, "Oh my God, look at that you guys. Like we're all together, look at this beautiful view. It's amazing right now. It's doing something to my eyes, and my heart. I hope it does the same thing to yours." That totally. But definitely silence is the most. Yeah, silence and nature.

Wendy Mocke: I asked that question because I just I have such huge respect for the incredible black women that we have in not only in this industry but across this country that are doing just life-changing work. And you carry so much. The communities, you just carry so much, so I often wonder it's so important to find happiness and joy, particularly for black women, and that's why I was like, "What gives you joy and peace?" And so everyone that's listening, Elaine actually has a two-show day today. So you probably have to start warming up soon for your next show?

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, I was actually thinking, I was like, "Should I just start heading to work?"

Wendy Mocke: Yes. Yeah, no, no, no. I've just seen the time and I'm like this is literally thank you so much for using your break to sit down and have a chat-

Elaine Crombie: No prob.

Wendy Mocke: And I want to thank you for your time and generosity and the work that you are doing. Honestly, everything that you touch is so full of the biggest blackish joy, and you are such an inspiration to all of us on so many different levels. So thank you.

Elaine Crombie: Thank you, Wendy. I think that the one thing I find now more than ever, and that I encourage other black women, black fellows, young black fellows that are coming up, people of color is just to be unapologetically black in this society, because while white fellows get a kick out of it and they're like, "Ooh, this is amazing," it's like yeah, but we are not performing to you when we tell you... Like there's a point in this play where I call to action, and it's really just me, Elaine talking to the audience, calling people to action and I just know that I can't.

Elaine Crombie: I've wasted so much time making sure that everyone else is okay and that the theatre companies get what they want and the blah, blah, blah, and all this and that. Whereas now I'm like, "Well, you want me. I come with a whole list of demands. And most of them are about treating me right and paying me

Darlo podcast no8 (Completed 07/09/21) Page 19 of 20 Transcript by Rev.com This transcript was exported on Jul 09, 2021 - view latest version here. what I'm due, and also adding a cultural loading on top of that." That's the next thing that I'm coming for is cultural loadings in award rates.

Wendy Mocke: Ooh! Ooh! Yes, let me snap my fingers. Yes.

Elaine Crombie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes, that's what it is.

Wendy Mocke: All right. Well, listen, I don't want to hold you too much because you probably need to like rest a bit of your voice and then get ready for your show. So thank you. Thank you so much.

Elaine Crombie: No worries, Wendy.

Wendy Mocke: Hopefully, I'll see you in person soon.

Elaine Crombie: Yeah, thank you so much, Wendy for having me. Take care.

Wendy Mocke: Nice. Take care. Treat us well tonight. Bye.

Elaine Crombie: Thank you, bye.

Wendy Mocke: Bye.

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