Legislative Assembly of Alberta the 27Th Legislature First Session Standing Committee on the Economy

Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature First Session Standing Committee on the Economy Monday, September 29, 2008 10 a.m. Transcript No. 27-1-4 Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature First Session Standing Committee on the Economy Allred, Ken, St. Albert (PC), Chair Taylor, Dave, Calgary-Currie (L), Deputy Chair Amery, Moe, Calgary-East (PC) Bhullar, Manmeet Singh, Calgary-Montrose (PC) Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (L) Campbell, Robin, West Yellowhead (PC) Marz, Richard, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (PC) Mason, Brian, Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood (NDP) McFarland, Barry, Little Bow (PC) Weadick, Greg, Lethbridge-West (PC) Xiao, David H., Edmonton-McClung (PC) Bill 204 Sponsor Johnston, Art, Calgary-Hays (PC) Department of Solicitor General and Public Security Participant Al Sauve Executive Director, Sheriffs Branch Police Services Participants George Harper Staff Sergeant, Traffic Commander, Provincial Capital District, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Barry Maron Acting Staff Sergeant, Traffic Section, Edmonton Police Service Michael O’Connor Constable, Traffic Education, Calgary Police Service Ben Wilkowski Sergeant, Traffic Commander, Strathcona County Traffic Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Support Staff W.J. David McNeil Clerk Louise J. Kamuchik Clerk Assistant/Director of House Services Micheline S. Gravel Clerk of Journals/Table Research Robert H. Reynolds, QC Senior Parliamentary Counsel Shannon Dean Senior Parliamentary Counsel Corinne Dacyshyn Committee Clerk Erin Norton Committee Clerk Jody Rempel Committee Clerk Karen Sawchuk Committee Clerk Rhonda Sorensen Manager of Communications Services Melanie Friesacher Communications Consultant Tracey Sales Communications Consultant Philip Massolin Committee Research Co-ordinator Stephanie LeBlanc Legal Research Officer Diana Staley Research Officer Rachel Stein Research Officer Liz Sim Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Transcript produced by Alberta Hansard September 29, 2008 Economy EC-41 10 a.m. Monday, September 29, 2008 errors or omissions? If not, can we have a motion for approval? Mr. Title: Monday, September 29, 2008 EC Amery. Any discussion? All in favour? Those opposed? The [Mr. Allred in the chair] motion is carried. We’ve got a couple of items arising from the previous minutes: The Chair: Okay. We’ll call the meeting to order. My name is Ken Alberta traffic collisions statistics from 2003-2007, a follow-up from Allred. I’m the chair. If I could ask the members of the committee Alberta Transportation – that’s on the website – and number of to please introduce themselves. Brian, would you like to start? careless driving convictions, again from Alberta Transportation, a follow-up, which also is on the website. Mr. Mason: Brian Mason, Member for Edmonton-Highlands- I’d just like to make a couple of preliminary comments. In Norwood. reflecting back on our previous deliberations and some of the submissions and discussions, I’m concerned that the focus of the Mr. Marz: Richard Marz, MLA for Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills. committee has been on the term “distracted driving” in the context of the current legislation. Now, section 115 in the highway traffic Mr. Xiao: David Xiao, Edmonton-McClung. act deals with careless driving. The highway traffic act is silent on the use of the term “distracted driving” but, rather, speaks of careless Mr. Amery: Moe Amery, Calgary-East. driving. Now, the two terms are certainly not synonymous. In fact, careless leans towards negligence and recklessness whereas Mr. Weadick: Greg Weadick, Lethbridge-West. distracted only speaks to having one’s mind on other matters. If one is to pursue the Hansard record from the last meeting, you will see The Chair: I believe we have three members online. Mr. Taylor, the word “distracted” or derivatives thereof used extensively while deputy chair. the word “careless” was seldom used. I recognize that we’re dealing with cellphone use, which is distracted driving, but I think we’ve got Mr. Taylor: Yes. I’m here. to be careful that we don’t confuse the highway traffic act in the context of distracted as opposed to careless driving. The Chair: Manmeet. Mr. Campbell has just arrived. Welcome, Robin. Mr. Bhullar: Yes. I am here. Mr. Campbell: Thank you. The Chair: And Barry McFarland. The Chair: I make these comments as chair just to help us stay on focus and not get – pardon the pun – distracted from the subject at Mr. McFarland: Here. hand. Now, we also have a confidential legal opinion on the website, The Chair: Good. Is there anyone I’ve missed? I guess not. which you should have in your packages, a decision of the Alberta If I could ask the staff to introduce themselves. Queen’s Bench, Regina versus Lehr. That’s very useful in review- ing, particularly with regard to the term “careless driving” in the Ms Rempel: Jody Rempel, committee clerk. context of the Criminal Code. Okay. Without any further ado, then, we’ll ask for the presenta- Ms Norton: Erin Norton, committee clerk. tions from the traffic enforcement officials, and we’ll start on my left. Sergeant Wilkowski, if you would like to introduce yourself Ms LeBlanc: Stephanie LeBlanc, legal research officer, Legislative and indicate the force you are with and make a few preliminary Assembly Office. comments if you’d like. Ms Sorensen: Rhonda Sorensen, manager of communications Sgt. Wilkowski: Sergeant Ben Wilkowski. I’m with Strathcona services, Legislative Assembly Office. county traffic services. I’m in the municipal end of our unit. Just in short, we believe that driving should be your only focus when you’re Mr. Reynolds: Rob Reynolds, Senior Parliamentary Counsel, behind the wheel. We think distracted driving is a huge issue, Legislative Assembly. probably bigger than cellphones alone. Unfortunately, it’s not addressed at all in the Traffic Safety Act other than, as you men- Dr. Massolin: Good morning. I’m Philip Massolin. I’m the tioned, careless driving, which then brings it into a set of circum- committee research co-ordinator, Legislative Assembly Office. stances that may include cellphone use. Just happy to be here. Hopefully, I can help you with your Mrs. Kamuchik: Good morning. Louise Kamuchik, Clerk Assis- decisions. tant, director of House services, Legislative Assembly Office. The Chair: Thank you. The Chair: Thank you. We have five members of the various Staff Sergeant Harper. police services. We’ll allow you to introduce yourselves shortly, when we get through some of our preliminaries. Thank you. S/Sgt. Harper: Yes. Staff Sergeant George Harper. I’m with the Okay. Approval of the agenda. If we could have a motion to provincial capital district traffic services unit, representing RCMP approve the agenda, please. Mr. Weadick. Any discussion? All in K Division on behalf of Inspector James Stiles. favour? Those opposed? The motion is carried. With respect to cellphone use I know that the technology in this A review of and approval of the minutes of the September 10 area is constantly moving forward. Not only are there people using meeting. Has everyone had a chance to review them? Are there any cellphones, but they’re also texting and doing other things while they’re driving. On my way to Leduc the other day a gentleman was EC-42 Economy September 29, 2008 moving from the inside lane to the outside lane, and I thought that road eating cereal out of a bowl to holding a map on a steering perhaps I was dealing with an impaired driver. When I did in fact wheel, reading pocketbooks. There are such a wide variety of pull him over, he was just closing his cellphone. It’s not that it’s distractions that are going on out there that if you limit it to maybe a new problem, but it certainly is something worth looking at, cellphones as opposed to just having a blanket charge that would and the word “distracting,” I think, is very, very fitting in some of read something like “distracted driving,” period, then you could these cases. It could become problematic. Although the RCMP include any one of those distractions. The problem for us is going does not have any statistics on the number of collisions involving to be how you actually prove that this person is distracted by the cellphone use, I know from my own personal experience that it is a individual thing, the task that they’re trying to do. problem. In B.C. we had a problem with the liquor act. They had a consumption charge there. It wasn’t a possession in a vehicle The Chair: Thank you. charge; it was a consumption charge. The only way that you could convict on that charge was if you actually saw them tipping the Chief Sauve: Good morning. I’m Al Sauve. I’m the executive bottle to their lips. Simply having an open bottle in their hand in the director of the sheriffs branch. My colleague spoke very well about car wasn’t adequate. the issue. I believe that in a previous meeting my colleague from What do you do with a cellphone? If the person has an earpiece policing and community services branch Kimberly Armstrong spoke or they’re talking into a mike that’s hanging from their sun visor, and stated the department’s position on this matter, and I certainly how do you prove that they were distracted by that? How do you want to echo that. I also am a member of the Alberta Association of prove that that offence has actually occurred? In my opinion, a Chiefs of Police, and as has been reflected in your previous minutes, distracted driving charge could include cellphones, but it could they certainly support legislation in the area of distracted drivers as include all the other varieties of distraction as well. well. Thank you. Mr. Taylor: If I can ask, then, just one follow-up to make sure that I’m clear on what you’re saying.

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