Wednesday Volume 578 2 April 2014 No. 147

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 2 April 2014

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2014 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 865 2 APRIL 2014 866

Mrs Villiers: The police are currently recruiting. They House of Commons recognise the importance of maintaining numbers at appropriate levels, particularly in the light of wastage Wednesday 2 April 2014 rates. It is important for us to resolve the question of 2015-16. The Chief Constable has said that he needs about 7,000 officers to ensure that he can run matters The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock efficiently, and the level is slightly below that at present, so I hope that the future discussions with the DFP will bear fruit, as they have in relation to the security PRAYERS funding agreed by the United Kingdom Government.

Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Given the [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] recent revelations about recordings made at Garda stations in the Irish Republic of all telephone calls made to and from those stations over a number of years, and given that information was withheld from the Smithwick Oral Answers to Questions tribunal that investigated the deaths of police officers Breen and Buchanan, what assessment has the Secretary of State made of those revelations, and of their impact in revealing the level of collusion that may have existed NORTHERN IRELAND between police in the Republic and the IRA?

The Secretary of State was asked— Mrs Villiers: I had the opportunity to discuss the matter with the Tánaiste and the Irish Government on Security Situation Monday, and I was assured that concern about the recording of police conversations, and other matters 1. Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) relating to the Garda, would not undermine the efforts (Lab/Co-op): What recent assessment she has made of being made in the south to help the PSNI to fight the security situation in Northern Ireland; and if she terrorism. A number of inquiries are under way to will make a statement. [903393] investigate, in particular, whether the recordings will have any impact on current prosecutions. It is very The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa important that those inquiries establish the facts, and Villiers): The threat level in Northern Ireland continues that we ensure that every effort continues to be made to to be severe, with persistent planning and targeting by bring terrorists to justice and put them in jail. terrorists. Action by the Police Service of Northern Ireland and its partners maintains a high level of pressure Mr Dodds: In the course of the Secretary of State’s on those groups, with the aim of preventing attacks and discussions with the authorities in the south, particularly collecting the evidence that is needed for convictions. the police, what efforts are being made to step up the battle against fuel launderers? There is grave concern in Tom Greatrex: Given the recent attempts to attack Northern Ireland, where it is felt—given the number of members of the PSNI—including the events that occurred prosecutions and of people charged—that the battle is just this weekend in Larne—is the Secretary of State not being fought with enough vigour, and that the fact confident that it has all the resources that it needs in that the National Crime Agency is not operating fully in order to respond to such incidents, and does she expect Northern Ireland is having a detrimental effect. members of police forces from Great Britain to undertake a mutual aid operation in Northern Ireland over the Mrs Villiers: The National Crime Agency will still be summer? able to be part of the fight against fuel laundering, because it is a reserved matter. The latest development Mrs Villiers: I wholeheartedly condemn the disgraceful is the announcement of the introduction of a new fuel scenes that have been witnessed in Larne over recent marker, for which I know the right hon. Gentleman and days. Such thuggish behaviour is absolutely unacceptable, his DUP colleagues have pressed very strongly, and and I know that the PSNI is taking very seriously the which is to be produced by the Dow Chemical Company. need to bring those responsible to justice. As we have Work is being done on both sides of the border to discussed during previous sessions of Northern Ireland strengthen the fight against fuel laundering, and work is questions, there is an ongoing debate about police funding also under way on the new marker, which will be much for the year 2015-16. The Government have provided more difficult to remove from fuel. additional funds, but it remains to be seen exactly how much the Department of Finance and Personnel will Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): contribute. Discussions continue, and I strongly support There were 30 national security attacks in Northern the efforts made by the Chief Constable to resolve this Ireland in 2013. Will my right hon. Friend assure the important matter with the DFP. House that there will be a relentless and effective pursuit of the small but violent minority of people in Northern Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): Given Ireland who prefer terrorism to democracy? that the security situation in Northern Ireland is still difficult, is my right hon. Friend confident that the Mrs Villiers: I can certainly give that assurance. The police will still be able to recruit enough officers immediately Government remain absolutely committed to combating to replace those who are retiring from the force? terrorism in Northern Ireland and elsewhere. Strong 867 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 868 support for the PSNI is vital, which is why we have Mr Bain: Great minds obviously think alike. In North given it significant extra resources. We also recognise Antrim and South Down 40% of workers are paid less the crucial importance of combating other forms of than the living wage, and across the Province the levels crime in Northern Ireland, including crime committed of part-time workers, particularly women, on poverty by individuals linked to loyalist paramilitaries. pay are shocking. In fair pay fortnight, can the Minister tell the House whether he will offer incentives for firms Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): With respect to to pay the living wage, so that we can tackle one of the the latter organisations, does the Secretary of State feel major causes of this Government’s cost of living crisis any discomfort about the amount of time that is spent in Northern Ireland? differentiating between parts of the Ulster Defence Association and the Ulster Volunteer Force, as though Mr Robathan: As the hon. Gentleman knows, the they were respectively a good organisation and an greatest reason for the economic crisis in Northern organisation gone bad? Does she agree that they are Ireland and elsewhere in the United Kingdom is the illegal organisations that should have long since ceased appalling economic legacy left us by the previous to exist in any structured form? Government. I am surprised that he does not welcome, for instance, the recently published Northern Ireland Mrs Villiers: Both the UDA and UVF are proscribed Centre for Economic Policy spring outlook predicting organisations, but in relation to recent activities in that the local economy will grow by 2.8% in 2014 and Larne, and criminal activity in the hon. Lady’s constituency, that over 13,000 new jobs will be created this year in what the individuals involved are undertaking—however Northern Ireland. That is a fantastic thing to welcome. they choose to label themselves—is utterly unacceptable It is through decent employment that people are lifted criminal behaviour. I am strongly supportive of the out of poverty. extensive efforts being made by the PSNI to put those people in prison and prevent them from exploiting and Mr Speaker: Rosie Cooper. Not here. seeking to control their communities merely to line their own pockets through organised crime. Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): Given that getting Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind): The Secretary of a job is the most important element in alleviating cost State will be well aware that there has been some of living problems, will my right hon. Friend elucidate controversy within Belfast city council about inviting the measures that the Northern Ireland Office has taken Pope Francis to visit the city. Does the Secretary of to promote private sector investment so that new firms State believe that the security situation and, indeed, the come into Northern Ireland? political situation in Northern Ireland are conducive to a papal visit any time soon? Mr Robathan: My hon. Friend will know that last June an economic pact was signed by the Northern Mrs Villiers: The papal visit to London was extremely Ireland Executive and others that looked forward to a successful, and I have every confidence that the security rebalanced economy with more private sector jobs. In situation will make a papal visit to Northern Ireland the last year some 10,000 jobs have been created in the entirely possible. Whether such an invitation is extended private sector. As I have said, we are expecting another is obviously a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive, 13,000 this year, and 23,000 new jobs over the next year. but I think it would be a very positive step if the Pope were to visit Northern Ireland. David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): The Minister will be aware that 42% of the households in Northern Cost of Living Ireland suffer from fuel poverty. The most vulnerable are the elderly and cancer patients. Surely more can be 2. Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): done to help those vulnerable in our society? What recent assessment she has made of the effect of the Government’s economic policies on the cost of Mr Robathan: I have great sympathy with what the living in Northern Ireland. [903394] hon. Gentleman says, and I am aware that some 68% of households in Northern Ireland heat their homes with 6. Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): What fuel oil, which has gone up dramatically in price in the recent assessment she has made of the effect of the last few years. Our stop on the fuel escalator will have a Government’s economic policies on the cost of living in decent impact on all those who heat their houses with Northern Ireland. [903398] fuel oil. Of course, we wish to see people doing better and those in poverty helped out of poverty, and that is The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office why we are focusing on economic recovery, as is the (Mr Andrew Robathan): I am answering these questions hon. Gentleman’s party in the Northern Ireland Executive. together as, spookily enough, they are identical in every word. The Government continue to take actions to Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP): The support hard-working households. Following the Budget, Minister will know that the Government’s welfare reform 685,000 people in Northern Ireland will have benefited proposals, including the caps, will hit hardest of all in from the personal allowance changes since 2010. Northern Ireland and will cause a severe cost of living Furthermore, drivers, as well as Northern Ireland crisis for those already struggling most. It is my contention households using fuel oils for home energy, will benefit that the universal credit project is unworkable and is from the cancelling of the fuel duty rise planned for falling apart. Does the Minister agree, and should not September. the project now be abandoned? 869 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 870

Mr Robathan: If I might say gently to the hon. Lady, The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa no, I do not agree, and nor do the majority of people in Villiers): I have been working with Northern Ireland’s the whole of the United Kingdom, including Northern political leadership to support and encourage progress Ireland, agree that we should go on with the hugely on flags, parades and the past. It is important to find an increasing burden of benefits on taxpayers. We look agreed way forward on these issues in order to underpin forward to the Northern Ireland Assembly making political stability, support economic renewal and overcome progress on the Welfare Reform Bill in Northern Ireland. community division. If the hon. Lady might say to her colleagues in the Assembly that we should have some progress, the economy Mr McKenzie: Can the Secretary of State reassure and the people of Northern Ireland would look forward the House that she still believes a positive outcome from to greater prosperity. the ongoing all-party talks will be reached, and is she fully engaged in trying to make that happen? Mr Ivan Lewis (Bury South) (Lab): Recent figures from the Office for National Statistics show that in terms of both output and pay, Northern Ireland has Mrs Villiers: I am fully engaged in trying to make been the region hardest hit by the recession. One in six that happen, and I remain optimistic that an agreed way workers are on low pay, and the average household has forward can be found. The party leaders continue to seen a 9% drop in income. What are the Government meet. The speeches made by the Deputy First Minister going to do about the cost of living crisis facing the and First Minister in Washington on these matters were people of Northern Ireland? very clear that both Sinn Fein and the Democratic Unionist party were determined to find a way forward. Mr Robathan: I have already responded on this issue. The on-the-runs crisis has set things back, but I know The hon. Gentleman is rather kind to raise it, given that that the party leaders continue to work. It is a pity that he was a member of the last Government, who led to the Ulster Unionist party has pulled out, and I urge the economic crisis that we inherited in 2010. We have them to come back to the table. done an enormous amount—I have mentioned the economic pact—and the investment conference that my Dr McDonnell: Does the Secretary of State accept right hon. Friend the Secretary of State hosted in that if the process begun by Richard Haass is to be Northern Ireland in October has led to a great deal of brought to a satisfactory conclusion, party leaders and further foreign direct investment in Northern Ireland. parties in Northern Ireland will require the active hands-on Indeed, the Northern Ireland Executive is working hard support of both the British and Irish Governments— on this issue, and I congratulate them on the work they namely, her good self and the Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore? have done. Mrs Villiers: They certainly will need the support and Mr Lewis: The idea that our Government caused the encouragement of both Governments. I can assure the global banking crisis is complete nonsense, given that House that they very definitely have that, and that was the Conservatives were calling for deregulation year confirmed in my discussions with Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore after year after year. on Monday. We are committed to this process and we May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to answer a want to see it succeed. If we have learned anything from serious question about Northern Ireland? Political stalemate the events of recent days, it is the importance of a on welfare reform within Northern Ireland and between balanced, transparent and accountable process to deal the Northern Ireland Executive and the Treasury now with Northern Ireland’s past. poses a real threat to Northern Ireland’s recovery. Is it not time for the Government to take a more active role Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): in seeking an end to this unacceptable stalemate? The Secretary of State referred to the party leaders meeting, and of course they are meeting, with the Mr Robathan: I do not think that I blamed the last exception of the Ulster Unionist leader. We should Government for the international banking crisis; I blamed encourage progress in those discussions because many them for the dire state of the UK economy that we people want to see those issues addressed and resolved inherited in 2010—quite reasonably, if I might say so. so that we can get on and deal not just with the past, but We are working very hard with the Executive to bring with the present and the future. about a better economic situation in Northern Ireland. We want to see the Welfare Reform Bill passed in the Mrs Villiers: The hon. Gentleman is right. Resolving Assembly, as indeed do many parties in the Executive. these issues or finding an agreed way forward will Unfortunately, it is currently bogged down in the Assembly enable further efforts and energies to be concentrated because two parties are unwilling to support it. on pensions, the economy and so on. There is a real opportunity here. A lot of good work was done under Haass Process the auspices of Richard Haass and Meghan O’Sullivan, not least by the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley 3. Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): What steps (Mr Donaldson) as part of the negotiations under she is taking to promote a positive outcome for the Richard Haass. Haass talks. [903395] 11. [903403] Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): What 8. Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP): assessment has the Secretary of State made of any need What recent assessment she has made of the Haass for legislation to implement any possible agreement process. [903400] on Haass? 871 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 872

Mrs Villiers: As we are currently advised, structures day at Islandbridge, Glasnevin and elsewhere—the first of the sort proposed by Richard Haass in draft document time, I think, that a British Minister has done that since No. 7 would not need Westminster legislation, apart partition. from a fairly straightforward devolution of responsibilities for parading. Some of the issues are quite complex, and Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): The men of the we would work with the Northern Ireland Executive, 36th (Ulster) Division and, indeed, all Irish soldiers once there was an agreement, to see whether further were volunteers in the great war. More Victoria Crosses legislation might be needed in Westminster. were won by Irish soldiers than by any other section. What will the Secretary of State’s office do to encourage Mr Speaker: I call Sammy Wilson. No? Mr Wilson primary schoolchildren in Northern Ireland to learn had signalled an interest, but never mind—we will hear about the great sacrifice of our volunteers and our from him another day. soldiers, and the commitment of our men and women in the previous century to our nation? Mr Ivan Lewis (Bury South) (Lab): Does the Secretary of State agree that following the local and European Mr Robathan: We are very keen that all children elections and the conclusion of the judge-led inquiry should know of the sacrifice of our forefathers 100 years into on-the-runs at the end of May, all Northern Ireland ago. Education and education policy are devolved, but parties should see it as their top priority to reach a the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) speedy agreement on the issues covered by the Haass is leading on commemoration and is doing an extremely talks? Three years of elections in Northern Ireland good job. The hon. Gentleman mentions VCs. The first cannot lead to permanent political logjam. Victoria Cross awarded to a British soldier in the first world war was won by Maurice Dease at the battle of Mrs Villiers: I certainly agree with the shadow Secretary Mons. It was posthumous and he was a Catholic Irishman of State. We have a crucial opportunity, which I hope from Coole in County Westmeath. the party leaders will seize. We are on the eve of a new parading season. The next few weeks will be crucial. I Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): Many nationalists very much welcome the fact that the party leaders are from the south served and died in the first world war. continuing their discussions and will do so throughout My grandfather was from Mayo, and he fought on the most of the election period. It is crucial that we find a Somme. Will the Minister be able to send me precise way forward on these matters and the crisis surrounding details of the events taking place in the south to OTRs only makes the case more strongly for a solution commemorate 1914? on the past. Mr Robathan: There is a programme of events and, as I have said, the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley First World War (Irish Soldiers) is leading on this in Northern Ireland. A ceremony is planned for 4 August in Dublin—probably in St Patrick’s 4. Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): What cathedral—which will be followed that evening by a steps her Department is taking to commemorate the ceremony in St Anne’s cathedral in Belfast. I will send sacrifice of Irish soldiers during the first world war. the hon. Gentleman further details. [903396] John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): On The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office Monday, along with other members of the British-Irish (Mr Andrew Robathan): The Northern Ireland Office is Parliamentary Assembly, I had the honour of visiting committed to delivering the Government’s programme the war memorial that commemorates the 49,000 Irish for the first world war centenary in Northern Ireland in who were killed in the first world war. We were ably led a manner which promotes reconciliation and contributes by the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson). to a peaceful, shared future. The Department is also Will the Minister congratulate the BIPA on all the work co-ordinating closely with the Irish Government on the it does, and will he do all he can to ensure that the centenary and the wider decade of commemorations in commemoration in Flanders later this year is a success? Ireland. Mr Robathan: I certainly congratulate the British-Irish Sir Edward Leigh: Enormous numbers of Irish men Parliamentary Assembly. I also congratulate my hon. from both communities willingly volunteered. That is Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), the key: they willingly volunteered for king and country, who laid a wreath at Islandbridge. Islandbridge is a very and many of them made the ultimate sacrifice. Can the fitting memorial, designed by Lutyens, which the Queen Minister tell the House how he will use the commemorations also visited recently. to bring both communities together in remembrance of their common sacrifice? Dealing with the Past

Mr Robathan: My hon. Friend is right. Some 200,000 5. Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con): What recent Irish personnel volunteered to fight in the first world discussions she has had with political parties in war. It is difficult to tell who was a regular, who was Northern Ireland on dealing with the past. [903397] Irish and from the north, or whatever. They were just termed British in those days. Some 49,000 were killed in The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa the first world war and we do commemorate them. As a Villiers): I hold regular discussions with representatives Government we get on extremely well with the Irish of the Northern Ireland political parties on a range of Government. For myself, I laid four wreaths on Armistice issues, including dealing with Northern Ireland’s past. 873 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 874

I continue to encourage party leaders to work towards 12. [903404] David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): an agreement on the past which is balanced and can One aspect of how we deal with the past is the command public support. continuing support we give to victims. May I thank the Secretary of State for the support she gave in securing Nigel Mills: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for the funding for the Peace Centre in Warrington her reply. Does she think it has become harder to reach announced in the Budget? May I also ask her to a deal on the past as a result of the on-the-runs issue, address the issue of European Union funding being which was effectively an agreement on partial immunity ring-fenced for the island of Ireland, which means that for people who might be required to tell the truth about victims on the mainland do not have access to it? various incidents? Mrs Villiers: I thank my hon. Friend for his kind Mrs Villiers: The concern caused by the on-the-runs words about my role in securing additional funding for issue, and the fact that the scheme was not dealt with the Warrington Peace Centre. The people there do transparently, have set back the progress on dealing fantastic work and I am keen to continue working with with the past. However, the proposals set out in the them. I am, of course, aware of the concerns about the Haass seven document provide a good basis for further fact that they are not able to access funds which are discussions and I welcome the fact that many of the provided solely for people in Northern Ireland, even parties have said that they can support that kind of when, sadly, there are many victims of terrorism in architecture, despite the fact that further issues need to Great Britain. It is vital that those victims have all the be resolved before an agreement is found. support that they need, and this Government believe that any solution on the past in Northern Ireland must Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): Does have victims at its centre. the Secretary of State accept that honesty is essential in dealing with the issues of the past? Does she also agree Mr Speaker: May we have a bit of order in the House that it is time for Sinn Fein leaders to face up to their for the last question so that the questioner can be heard past of murder and destruction, and to apologise to the and we can hear the Secretary of State as well? people of Ulster for their bloody campaign of terror? Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Beyond her exhortations Mrs Villiers: I do believe that honesty and transparency to the parties, has the Secretary of State actually scoped are an important means of dealing with the legacy of what legislative measures would be required from her in the past. The UK Government have taken a lead in respect of the Haass proposals on the past? In addition, taking responsibility where the actions of the state have what authorisations and directions would be needed been wrong, and we would expect everyone involved in from ministerial colleagues in Whitehall? the troubles to account for the role that they have played. Mrs Villiers: The advice I have been given is that Westminster legislation would not be required if the Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): In parties decided to implement the Haass seven proposals, order to give lasting peace the best chance, there has to apart from a devolution of parading. The measures on be equity and balance when addressing the past. Given the past, I am advised, could all be done via legislation the way in which the on-the-run letters contrast with in the Assembly, but I am happy to review this matter in how some ex-soldiers fear they might be treated, will discussions with the hon. Gentleman at a later date. the Secretary of State look at the ongoing peace process in the round to ensure that there is balance?

Mrs Villiers: Of course it is crucial in all matters PRIME MINISTER relating to Northern Ireland to maintain balance and fairness. I reiterate the assurances I have given the House that the letters issued under the on-the-runs The Prime Minister was asked— scheme did not amount to an amnesty or to immunity; they were merely a statement of fact as to whether the Engagements individual concerned was wanted by the police for arrest at a particular time. Q1. [903443] Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab): I agree with the Secretary 2 April. of State’s last answer, and I stress that if we are to find a way of bringing closure to the victims of the most The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): This morning, difficult cases that haunt us from the past, that has to be I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. done in an even-handed fashion. It would be wrong, for In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have example, if Bloody Sunday soldiers were prosecuted but further such meetings later today. loyalist or republican paramilitaries were not. Jeremy Corbyn: Is the Prime Minister aware that at Mrs Villiers: I emphasise again, as the Prime Minister the current time in England 3,956,000 people are in the has done at this Dispatch Box, that this Government do private rented sector? Generation Rent finds that two not support amnesties from prosecution for anybody. It thirds of them feel insecure and half of them feel that is crucial that, whatever arrangements are made in they pay far too much in rent. Does he not think it is relation to the past in Northern Ireland, they should be time to end the social cleansing of inner-city Britain balanced and fair to all sides in the community. by bringing in proper rent regulation with a fair rent 875 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 876 formula and total regulation of the private rented sector Edward Miliband: The Prime Minister cannot answer to give people security and peace of mind in where the question because it is such an embarrassment. He they live? sold at 330p, and this morning the price was 563p. It is basic maths. It is not so much “The Wolf of Wall The Prime Minister: Where I am sure the hon. Gentleman Street” but the dunce of Downing street. Let me ask and I would agree is that there is a need to build more him this: if Royal Mail was sold at today’s price, how houses, including houses in the private rental sector—I much more would the taxpayer have made? would say there is cross-party agreement on that. Where I think he is wrong is on full-on rent control, which has The Prime Minister: I will take a lecture from almost been tried in the past and has tended to destroy the anyone in the country about the sale of Royal Mail, but private rented sector, drive everyone back to the state not from the two muppets who advised the last Chancellor sector and reduce the quality of housing as a result. on selling the gold. There they sit with not a word of apology for £9 billion wasted. The Royal Mail privatisation Mr Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood) (Con): In the week has got £2 billion for the taxpayer, 140,000 employees when our right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the owning shares and 700,000 members of the public who Exchequer has spoken of the importance to the are now shareholders. This is a great success for our Government of securing full employment, will the Prime country, and something that the right hon. Gentleman Minister confirm that the record shows that no Labour should be praising. Government in history left office with unemployment Edward Miliband: Again, the Prime Minister cannot lower than when they came to office? Does that not answer the question. The answer is that the taxpayer illustrate in this area, as in all others, the importance of would have got £1.4 billion less for this valuable asset the principle that what matters is what works? than it is worth today. Here is the thing, Mr Speaker— [Interruption.] The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend is factually correct: every Labour Government have left office with Mr Speaker: Order. When the Prime Minister was unemployment higher than when they came to office. In speaking I said that he should not be shouted down and this Parliament what we have seen is 1.7 million more nor should anyone else. However hard the effort is made people employed in the private sector and 1.3 million to shout someone down, it will not work because we more people employed as a whole—one of the highest will just keep going. The sooner the juveniles can grow rates of employment in our history. We must keep up up and reach adulthood, so much the better. the work to offer more hope and more security to more of our people. Edward Miliband: And here is the thing, Mr Speaker, a third of the shares were sold to just 16 City investors. Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): Can the And get this: there was a gentleman’s agreement that Prime Minister tell the House: what is his excuse for the those City investors would not sell the shares. What Royal Mail fiasco? happened? Within weeks, half of those shares had been sold, and they had made a killing worth hundreds of The Prime Minister: What I would say about Royal millions of pounds. In other words, mates rates to the Mail is that taxpayers benefited from selling the business Prime Minister’s friends in the City. Perhaps he can tell for £2 billion—that of course is £2 billion that the us what happened to that gentleman’s agreement on Labour party never achieved, because it was never able those shares? to sell the business. The Prime Minister: We know why the right hon. Edward Miliband: Here is what the Prime Minister’s Gentleman is asking these questions—because he is own side is saying about this issue. The hon. Member paid to by the trade unions. He sat in a Cabinet that for Northampton South (Mr Binley) said yesterday that wanted to privatise the Royal Mail. That was its it was a “debacle”, “unethical” and “immoral”. The commitment. What happened was this. The general Prime Minister sold the shares for 330p. What are they secretary of the Communication Workers Union said trading at now? that “in terms of the last Labour Government, they tried to privatise the Royal Mail—it was the unions who The Prime Minister: The shares are trading ahead of brought that government to its senses.” Once again, where they were sold, but the fact is this—[Interruption.] Labour was weak in Government because it could not carry out its policies; it is weak in Opposition because it does not support shareholding by postal workers in the Mr Speaker: Order. Neither the Prime Minister nor Royal Mail; it is weak because it has no economic the Leader of the Opposition nor any other Member in policy; and it is weak because it has no plan. this House must be shouted down. It is not on. Edward Miliband: He has flogged it off to his friends The Prime Minister: When the right hon. Gentleman in the City and he cannot answer the question. I will ask was sitting in the Cabinet, this business lost half a him the question again. There was a gentleman’s agreement billion pounds. It is now in the private sector. It is making that these so-called long-term investors would not sell profits, paying taxes and working hard for our country. their shares, but half of them were sold and hundreds of More to the point, there are more than 140,000 people millions of pounds were made. What happened to that who work for the Post Office, delivering letters and agreement? Answer the question. parcels, who own shares in the business that they work for. They have a stake in the future of Royal Mail. They The Prime Minister: What happened is that the taxpayer are collecting dividends as well as pay, and that is is £2 billion better off. Yes, and anyone who has sold something of we should all be proud of. shares has missed out on what is a successful business. 877 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 878

The truth is this: the right hon. Gentleman sat in a Q3. [903445] Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): Cabinet that wanted to privatise Royal Mail. They Thirty-five years ago, the Scottish National party and could not do it—[Interruption.] the Tories united to bring down a Labour Government and bring in Margaret Thatcher—[Interruption.] Note, Mr Speaker: Order. Let us hear the answer. Mr Speaker, that the noise is coming from two sides of the House. Today, the SNP and the Tories are united on The Prime Minister: They could not do it because the the side of tax cuts for big business, united on the side trade unions would not let them. There are now 140,000 of the energy companies and united against a 50p tax. shareholders working for the Royal Mail and almost Does that not demonstrate to the Prime Minister that three quarters of a million members of the public with what people across the UK need is not separation shares. Those are signs for celebration in our country, between Scotland and England but liberation from not reasons to talk them down just because the Opposition right-wing Tory economics? are anti-market, anti-competitive and anti-business. Nothing The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman has provided has changed in the Labour party. No wonder it has a very useful public service by reminding me of one advertised this week for someone to bring some fresh useful thing that the SNP has done in its history by ideas to the leadership. I have the commercial here. It getting rid of that dreadful Labour Government who says that they should have nationalised half of British industry and made such a “the ability to manage…different teams across the Labour Party”. mess. I agree with him on one very important thing, in That must be the hardest job in Britain. No wonder spite of his views, and that is that the United Kingdom Labour is looking for a change, because it has a leader is much better off together, but I do think he is completely who does not have a clue. wrong about one of the issues he raised. This is the week in which we have cut corporation tax to 21%. That Edward Miliband: The Prime Minister has gone as will attract businesses into England, into Wales, into red as a postbox, and that is because he knows that he Scotland and into Northern Ireland. He should be lost £1.4 billion for the taxpayer. This is a sale that standing up and praising this tax-cutting Government, nobody wanted and nobody voted for—a national asset rather than criticising them. sold at a knockdown price to make a fortune for the Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): A planning few. It is a symbol of a Government who stand up for inspector recently told a closed meeting in Gloucestershire the wrong people, with the British people paying the that he would give more weight to consultants’ economic price. models than to “10,000 objections from local people”. Is that what the national planning framework really The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman just meant by “empowering” local people? said that it was a sale that nobody wanted. It was in his manifesto—it was a commitment of the last Government. The Prime Minister: The national planning framework They are shaking—[Interruption.] They worked so hard, is very clear about the importance of listening to local but they failed to do it. This coalition Government people on development. My hon. Friend will have received privatised the Royal Mail, created thousands of new a letter recently explaining some of the changes in the shareholders and have a great business working for guidance under the framework to make sure that, for Britain. We have seen it all from Labour this week. They instance, previous housing performance by local councils are advertising for fresh ideas. People around the right is taken into account in these very important decisions. hon. Gentleman are fighting like ferrets in a sack. Their top adviser—get this, Mr Speaker—is called Arnie and Q4. [903446] Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): At a he has gone to America, but unlike Arnie he has said time of unprecedented crisis, the Prime Minister saw at “I’m not coming back.” They are warring, they are first hand just how good the West Cumberland hospital weak and they do not have a plan. in my constituency can be. Six years into a rebuilding programme, that hospital has been plunged into crisis, Q2. [903444] Chloe Smith (Norwich North) (Con): It is is being starved of staff and faces being stripped of key as quick to go 225 miles over land and sea from here to clinical services. The nearest hospital is not just down Brussels as it is to go half the distance on the train the road—it is 42 miles away in Carlisle, and that, too, to Norwich. Does my right hon. Friend agree that is struggling. Will the Prime Minister commit today to East Anglia needs investment in better, faster rail do everything he can to assist me, local clinicians and infrastructure and that the Norwich in 90 taskforce will my community in retaining consultant-led services at bring benefits to businesses and passengers in Norfolk, the West Cumberland hospital? Suffolk and Essex? The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman is right to say that I saw for myself what an excellent job this The Prime Minister: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend hospital does and how important it is. The clinical and others for the work they are doing on the Norwich commissioning group total revenue available this year is in 90 taskforce. This is a very important project. I an increase of 2.3%—£663 million. That is because this welcome the interest shown by business leaders, local Government decided to protect NHS spending and not authorities and enterprise partnerships. East Anglia is cut it, and that is why important hospital developments one of the fastest-growing parts of our country and it can go ahead. has world-class companies and universities. Better transport will support and bolster that growth and I look forward Q5. [903447] David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): There to the taskforce report that I know she is working on. I are record numbers of small businesses and many hope that it will be used to shape the specification for more people seeking to become self-employed. What the long rail franchise, which should start in 2016. steps are the Government taking to support first-time 879 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 880 entrepreneurs in becoming first-time employers and there have been changes in the way that the card account helping many more people achieve their ambitions in works, but I strongly support it and I will look closely at life? what she says and perhaps write to her.

The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con):The Territorial right. We need to make it easier for someone to take on Army won 71 VCs and thousands of other decorations their first employee. That is why, this Saturday, we are in the first world war. In this 100th anniversary year of bringing in the £2,000 employment allowance, which that war, does my right hon. Friend accept that learning comes into force on Sunday. It means that every business lessons from our English-speaking cousins in America, that employs someone will see a tax reduction of up to particularly the pivotal role the National Guard has £2,000. That means that 55,000 businesses will be taken played in Iraq and Afghanistan, is the way to ensure out of paying national insurance contributions altogether. that we can afford the equipment our armed forces need Whereas the Labour party introduced jobs taxes, we are for the future? cutting jobs taxes. The Prime Minister: Let me pay tribute to my hon. Q6. [903448] Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): At the weekend, General Sir Richard Shirreff Friend who has campaigned long and hard for our warned that reducing the Regular Army from 102,000 to Territorial Army and other reserve forces. The point he 82,000 by 2020 would weaken the armed forces and was makes is a good one. Today in Afghanistan we see our “one hell of a risk” to take. Why does the Prime Territorial Army working alongside our Regular Army, Minister think that it is not one hell of a risk? fighting with them and being decorated with them for their brave actions. Other countries have shown that it is The Prime Minister: It is the right thing to do because possible to have a larger reserve force alongside the what is most important is to make sure that our armed regular force. That is the way to have a well-equipped forces have the best equipment of any armed forces and flexible Army, Navy and Air Force for the future. anywhere in the world. I have been out to Afghanistan every year since 2006, sometimes twice a year, and Q8. [903450] Jim Dobbin (Heywood and Middleton) I always ask the same question: “Do you have the (Lab/Co-op): The Lanzarote convention sets a Europe- equipment you need? Is there anything else that you wide standard for the protection of children against want?” It is under this Government that we have seen sexual exploitation. The UK has signed it but not yet real improvements in equipment. Yes, we will have an ratified it. Following recent episodes of grooming 82,000 Regular Army. We will also have a larger reserve in the UK, including in my borough of Rochdale, force, and we are recruiting for that actively, and we will will the Government now consider ratifying that very have armed forces and defence equipment that this important convention? country can be very proud of. The Prime Minister: I absolutely agree with the hon. Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): Following last Gentleman that child sexual exploitation is an abhorrent week’s excellent news of the Siemens development in crime. We are determined to stamp it out. We have seen Hull, it is vital that we move quickly with projects some extremely disturbing cases, not just in Rochdale, planned for the south bank of the Humber. Does my but in Oxfordshire, the county I represent. As he says, right hon. Friend share my view that all parties must we have signed the convention. I understand that there work together to make sure that the Humber does is a small amount of further assessment to be done indeed become the green energy capital of the UK? before the UK is in a position to ratify it. I will keep in touch with developments for him. The Prime Minister: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. The announcement by Siemens is a huge step Q9. [903451] Chris Kelly (Dudley South) (Con): Does forward, because I think it will bring an enormous my right hon. Friend agree that the doubling of capital amount of industry in its wake in terms of supply and allowances to £500,000 provides a welcome boost to component manufacture. We now need to make sure manufacturers in Dudley and the black country, such that the colleges are training up apprentices, and that as Miss Daisy’s Manufacturing which I visited recently, UK Trade & Investment is working to attract other and will increase investment in the manufacturing businesses to the area. As he knows, agreements are still sector, securing more jobs for the British people? needed in other parts of Humberside to make sure that all the necessary developments go ahead. The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely Q7. [903449] Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): The Prime right. A key part of our long-term economic plan is to Minister will know that millions of people across the make sure we get our businesses investing. One of the country value and love their Post Office card account, remarkable things about the Budget was all the ways it particularly those who do not have access to banks and said we would address some of the perennial weaknesses do not want a bank, but want to get their cash each in the British economy. We need to export more, to week. The contract with the Department for Work and invest more and to improve our performance in those Pensions is now being renegotiated. Will he give a regards, and we need to ensure that investment is spread commitment today that whatever happens, pensioners, around our country. Unlike the Labour party, we are and indeed everyone on benefits, will be able to access not going to be satisfied with an unbalanced recovery. the money that they need through the Post Office? Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Today The Prime Minister: I shall look carefully at what the the Ford Motor Company agreed a multi-million pound hon. Lady says. It is important for people to be able to contribution towards the Visteon pension fund for former use the Post Office in the way that she says. Obviously, Ford employees. Will the Prime Minister congratulate 881 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 882

Unite the union which, alongside a cross-party group of their home will be connected, which makes alternative MPs, has struggled to get a fair deal for former Ford planning impossible. Will the Prime Minister tell BT to workers? Will he commit to supporting pensioners facing produce clear plans for the billions of pounds of the same plight at the hands of other multinational taxpayers’ money it is getting? companies? [Interruption.] The Prime Minister: I have had this discussion with The Prime Minister: I did not catch the end of the BT, and I am happy to hold it again. I know that the hon. Gentleman’s question, but I wholeheartedly agree Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, that this is a good development for pensioners. All those my hon. Friend the Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey), who played a role—I think that colleagues on both sides will take up the specific point, which is that we have of the House have been involved—are to be credited for asked BT to give more detail in their roll-out plans the work they have done with Ford to make sure we get about which homes and areas will get broadband so that justice. that other companies and organisations are then able to see whether there are different ways of filling any gaps. Q10. [903452] Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) However, I do not agree with some who think that BT (LD): Although I welcome the Government’s has somehow not been putting its shoulder to the wheel. intervention on fuel bills, many rural people do not A massive investment is going into broadband: 10,000 benefit from mains gas and have to depend on more homes and businesses are being connected every week. expensive fuels. Will the Government investigate how This is a real success story for our country. they can benefit off-grid customers, who often live in fuel poverty? Q13. [903455] Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): As the Royal Mail share price remains about 70% The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend raises an important above the flotation price, will the Prime Minister now point. There are many people who are off mains gas, rule out paying a £4 million bonus from taxpayers’ including in my constituency. I think that there are money to its Government advisers? things we can do, not least encouraging the power of group purchasing by encouraging communities to come The Prime Minister: The taxpayer is £2 billion better together to buy oil and gas so that they can drive down off because we were able to put this business into the prices. I am sure that he will be looking at the options private sector, whereas previous Governments failed so available in his constituency. dismally.

Q11. [903453] Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) Q14. [903456] David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): (Lab): Three months ago I asked the Prime Minister My constituent Mariana Robinson is seeking the right about his £1,000 bobby tax, which anyone joining the to be treated by the English-run NHS. Will the Prime [Interruption.] police has to pay. One thousands Minister investigate what can be done to help her and pounds may not be much to him, but it is having a huge other NHS refugees who are seeking the higher impact on forces such as the Met, which is 2,000 standards and lower waiting times that are being officers under strength and finding it impossible to delivered by this Government? recruit. Interruption.] We all know that the bobby tax is wrong— The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is right to raise Mr Speaker: Order. This question will be heard. this because, frankly, what is happening in our NHS in Braying, sneering and making rude remarks are the sort Wales is a scandal. It is a scandal that is entirely the of thing the public despise. The hon. Lady will be responsibility of the Labour party running the Welsh heard, and the person sneering, if he has any sense of Assembly Government, who made the decision to cut shame, ought to be ashamed of himself. NHS spending by 8% in Wales. As a result, they have not met an A and E target since 2009. The last time— [Interruption.] I do not know why the Leader of the Siobhain McDonagh: This is an important issue for Opposition is laughing; the state of the NHS in Wales is everyone who lives in this country. We all know that the not funny. If he had any gumption—any backbone—he bobby tax is wrong, but will the Prime Minister now would get hold of the First Minister in Wales and tell accept that it is not working and abolish it so that our him to start investing in the NHS in Wales. police get back to strength to defend the people in my constituency of Mitcham and Morden? Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): Twenty- The Prime Minister: First, it is not a tax; secondly, it five years ago yesterday, the hated poll tax was imposed is not a barrier to recruitment; and thirdly, recruitment on the people of Scotland. That ended with the Prime is taking place in the Metropolitan police. Yes of course Minister being kicked out of office by her own party. we have seen reductions in police funding, but we have Will the Prime Minister take this opportunity to apologise also seen significant cuts in crime. I am proud to say for that imposition? that the Metropolitan police are recruiting, and they are confident they will be able to get good recruits. The Prime Minister: I am sorry; I did not catch the beginning of the hon. Gentleman’s question. Would it Q12. [903454] Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): be possible for him to ask it again, Mr Speaker? I do not Bringing superfast broadband to rural areas is vitally know whether it was the same as the question about the important, and the Government are rightly spending Scottish National party. over £1 billion on it, but my constituents are very frustrated that BT cannot tell them when, or even if, Mr Speaker: Yes, let us hear it again. 883 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 884

Mr Roy: Twenty-five years ago yesterday, the hated condolences to the head teacher, Stephen Kelly, the poll tax was imposed on the people of Scotland. That staff, teachers and pupils at the school, her friends and ended with the Prime Minister being kicked out by her of course her family, who sent her to school yesterday own party. Will the Prime Minister take this opportunity morning, for her never to return home. to apologise for that tax? The Prime Minister: The whole House will agree with The Prime Minister: I have made clear my view about what the hon. Gentleman said. It was an absolutely this issue many, many times over many, many years. I shocking accident that people will have seen across the think the council tax is a much better replacement. The country. Their hearts will go out to the family and all key now is to keep the levels of council tax down. That those involved with the school. Clearly the lessons will is why Government Members support a freeze. have to be learned to make sure that tragic accidents Q15. [903457] Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): In like that cannot happen again. 2012, 150,000 people petitioned this House to stop charitable air ambulances having to pay VAT on fuel. Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): The May I thank the Prime Minister for his actions in the Chancellor’s cut in beer duty is great news for Britain’s 2014 Budget which will mean that more missions are brewers, as it will allow them to invest, but it will do flown and more lives are saved? Does he agree that this nothing to help the 20,000 pubs tied to large companies. is possible only because we are using the LIBOR fines He has got rid of the fuel duty escalator, the beer duty for good purposes and because we have a long-term escalator and the alcohol duty escalator; will the economic plan? Government now tackle the pubco problem by getting rid of the pubco price escalator? The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I pay tribute to him because he is the founder and The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for what chair of the all-party group on air ambulances. He has he said about the cut in beer duty, which is the second in campaigned tirelessly on this issue, and he led a debate a row in the Budget. It is about making sure that the in the House in 2012. I am delighted about the result industry creates jobs and about supporting our pub that was achieved in the Budget. As he says, it will lead trade. It was noticeable that straight after the Budget to an expansion of the service. He is also right that you Marston’s announced 3,000 additional jobs. We want to can only make these decisions if you look after the look very carefully at what is happening in tied pubs nation’s resources, control public spending, and get and at the activities of some pub companies. It has been the deficit down—in short, if you have a long-term debated in the House. We are looking very closely at economic plan. what more we can do to make sure there are fair Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): Why has it taken outcomes for Britain’s publicans and Britain’s pub goers. four years to recruit just 41 teachers into the £10 million Troops to Teachers programme? Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab): What plans does the Prime Minister have to reform higher The Prime Minister: We support the Troops to Teachers education fees and loans so that the system works for programme. I will look very carefully at what the hon. students, works for all universities and works for the Gentleman says, because it is a good idea and a good country? proposal, and I want to make sure it is working. David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): It The Prime Minister: The biggest plan we have in this appears from my council tax bill that the Labour-led area is to expand the number of people going into Lancashire county council and the Labour-led Lancaster higher education by taking the cap off the numbers who district council have raised council tax by 2%. [Interruption.] can attend. Our plans on fees and repayments are Yes, very shocking. Will the Prime Minister help me to clearly set out. It is encouraging that they have not put find out what has really gone on—whether it is really people off going to university, nor have they put people 2% or some other erroneous figure—and help me to from low-income backgrounds off going to university. sort the matter out? I would make this point to the hon. Gentleman. Someone said in June 2010: The Prime Minister: What I would say to my hon. “A graduate tax would replace upfront tuition fees…I want to Friend—and he can say this to Lancashire county council, consult widely before publishing detailed plans later this year.” and indeed to his district council—is that this Government That was the Leader of the Opposition, in June 2010. I are making the money available so that councils can know we are dealing with a blank page and an empty freeze their council tax. There is no excuse for councils head, but for heaven’s sake, get on with it. that do not want to take that step. They should help people, keep their bills down and make sure that the council tax is frozen. Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): Does the Prime Minister agree that it is the skills, enterprise Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): The Liberton and sheer hard work of all the staff at companies such high school community in my constituency was left as Honeytop Speciality Foods, that, in conjunction with devastated just before Christmas when 13-year-old pupil our long-term economic plan, are driving the economy Jamie Skinner died while playing football. That heartbreak forward? That company created 200 full-time jobs last returned yesterday with the sad death of 12-year-old year and another 75 this year. It has exported naan Keane Wallis-Bennett when a fabricated wall collapsed bread to India, has created the fastest burger bun line on her while she was at school. I am sure the Prime in the whole of Europe and is making Dunstable the Minister and the whole House will wish to send their crumpet capital of the United Kingdom. 885 Oral Answers2 APRIL 2014 Oral Answers 886

The Prime Minister: Very good—I am delighted that employment allowance to make small businesses stronger. Dunstable is taking on that label. It is an important There are 3 million people who will now have been week for British business and for British families. This taken out of income tax all together. That is what week, corporation tax has been cut to make our businesses is happening in our country. Our economy is getting stronger, the £10,000 personal allowance is being introduced stronger and everyone can see that Labour’s arguments to make our families stronger, and we have the £2,000 are getting weaker all the time. 887 2 APRIL 2014 888

Point of Order Scotland (Independence) (Westminster Representation) 12.35 pm Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): On a No. 23) point of order, Mr Speaker. In his exchanges with the Leader of the Opposition, the Prime Minister suggested 12.36 pm that the 2010 Labour manifesto proposed privatising Royal Mail. In fact, the 2010 Labour manifesto said, Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) very clearly: (SNP): I beg to move. That leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide that, in the “continuing modernisation and investment will be needed by the event of a positive vote in the Scottish Independence referendum, Royal Mail in the public sector.” Members of Parliament representing Scottish constituencies shall Could you use your good offices, Mr Speaker, to ensure vacate their seats on the day on which Scotland becomes independent; that the Prime Minister comes back to the Chamber to that Scottish constituencies shall be abolished with effect from the speedily correct the record? same date; and for connected purposes. This Bill seeks to address the consequences of a Mr Speaker: I am not sure that I can offer the hon. positive yes result in the first consultation with the Gentleman any such hope, but he is a wily and experienced people of Scotland on the Union of the Parliaments operator who is aware of the opportunity that points of 1707. Indeed, it is the first such consultation for of order, or attempted points of order, can present 307 years. to him to correct the record. He has availed himself of According to Michael Fry in his 2006 book, “The that opportunity, and doubtless his observations will be Union”, the Union was brought about following a trade winging their way to the Leicester Mercury ere long. war during which Scots parliamentarians sought to abolish their Parliament, end a trade war with a large neighbour and in return be able to trade freely with them. Today, thankfully, in a world with intergovernmental organisations such as the European Union, the European economic area and the World Trade Organisation, such a move would be unnecessary. Had those organisations existed in the past, perhaps such a union would never have happened. Incidentally, I understand that Mr Fry started writing “The Union” as a Unionist, but due to the knowledge he gleaned from the process he ended up supporting independence. The main positive consequence of the referendum would, of course, be independence for Scotland, that most ancient of European nations. It is currently a stateless nation, but not, I hope, for much longer. We want to be clear about what the referendum seeks to do: it seeks to end the tawdry political union of 1707 and move political powers that belong to Scotland back to Scotland, completing logically the process of devolution and ending the anomaly of the West Lothian question, whereby some Scottish MPs vote on English matters, such as giving English students tuition fees of between £6,000 and £9,000, while their own constituents are being well taken care of by the good management of an SNP Government in Edinburgh and paying nothing. Incidentally, Members will have noticed over the years that the SNP does not vote on matters affecting England, because it believes, like the French and Germans, that other peoples can govern themselves effectively without any help from the Scots. Such an approach should be adopted by all Scottish MPs in the event of a yes vote. It should be understood by those people who often erroneously bundle things together that the referendum does not affect the Union of the Crowns of 1603, which started with James Stuart and continues to this day with our present Queen Elizabeth II, who is Head of State of 16 independent realms, with Canada, New Zealand and Australia the most notable among them. The Bill has at its heart fairness, particularly the issue of democratic fairness for our neighbours—the good people who live in England, Wales and Northern Ireland —as it would remove MPs from Scotland. It respects 889 Scotland (Independence) 2 APRIL 2014 Scotland (Independence) 890 (Westminster Representation) (Westminster Representation) their democratic rights and functions as well as our own the House that the opposite has happened. The scare in Scotland. The Bill seeks to remove Scottish MPs stories are continuing. We are well used to that in from this place following what I expect—and the polls Scotland. Whether it was the paltry assembly suggested are moving—will be a positive yes result on 18 September. in 1979, the Scots Parliament in 1997 or the election of Scottish MPs should of course vacate this place when the first SNP Government in 2007, we were told that the powers over Scotland are returned to Scotland, which is sky would fall in. Frankly, the sky has not fallen in; at present expected to be on 24 March 2016. indeed, the sun has shone more strongly and brightly In reference to last week’s ten-minute rule Bill— with all those institutions happily going from strength Representation of the People (Scotland)—which was to strength over the years. defeated in this House on a Division, some Members Why has there been that negativity? Instead of from non-Scottish seats seem to be in a greater hurry engagement, such as the important tidying up that this for independence, and in seeking to remove the franchise Bill seeks to do, the powers that be in Westminster and from Scottish people, to be moving independence to Whitehall are not thinking clearly and rationally about May 2015, 10 months earlier. If Scots no longer pay tax Scotland, but mainly have late thoughts and make very to the Treasury in London and our laws are no longer much knee-jerk reactions to events in Scotland that decided here, it would surely be an affront to democracy sound panicked and out of touch. Thankfully, I can to have the spectre of non-Scottish taxpayers of the report that not all hon. Members feel like that. Privately, rUK—the rump or the rest of the United Kingdom— many are relaxed about Scottish independence and very paying the salaries of MPs and staff. It would be the kindly wish us well—we could not have better friends ultimate power without responsibility for a class of and neighbours, as we move to independence—and MPs without constituency duties, whose actions would many more would support the Bill if they did not have be without consequences, to be paid for by the constituents to deal with other pressing matters within their parties. of other Members, while their own constituents had moved on to build a successful Scotland and to develop The powers that be still insist on the scare stories, the an oil fund on the model of Norway. most notable being about the currency union. Even Tory Back Benchers do not believe these scares, as This Bill seeks to give clarity to what will happen in viewers of S4C in Wales will know. This weekend, this place post-independence. The state would also save Nicholas Watt of The Guardian found a similarly minded £50 million, a step that I am sure would be very welcome. Government or Cabinet Minister, who believed a currency A journalist asked me yesterday whether I thought that union was doable. Even those leading the no campaign, some Scottish MPs would seek to cling on to the who maintain on one hand that having no currency trappings of Westminster. I hope not, but I fear that union is an iron law, are saying on the other hand that a some are putting career and power games at Westminster referendum about it is possible, oblivious to their earlier to the fore. I believe that it is more important to seek to words on the matter. There is now a lot of rust on their improve lives in some of the most deprived parts of iron law against Scotland, and polls show anyway that Scotland, to end poverty and child poverty, and to the people do not believe them. increase hope and opportunity. Given that 200,000 jobs in the UK are now dependent The Bill is a plea for maturity and responsibility, for on trade with a successful and independent Republic of those in both Governments—Edinburgh and London—to Ireland—indeed, trade has never been higher between sit round the table. I know that the Scottish Government the UK and the Republic of Ireland—I hope that are willing to do so. Both Governments should plan for Scotland will similarly bring benefits to and improve and inform the people about the possibilities. Keeping lives in England, especially for our friends in the north such matters secret from the people in a democracy is of England with whom, just like the Irish, we share so surely an affront to that very democracy, and that much; except, we hope, a Government in London, weakens us all collectively when we proclaim the merits thank you. of democracy around the world. In the Lords, Lord Forsyth recently called—on 3 March—on the Government It is important for this House to speak clearly on to anticipate events, and not just on the currency, and I things as people have the right to know how things will agree with him. be after a positive yes result in September. Sadly, too many in the Government in London have not given A couple of weeks ago, I had the pleasure—quite mature and reflective consideration to what would happen accidentally—of greeting the Irish Prime Minister, the post-independence. There has been a pattern. Initially, Taoiseach Enda Kenny, in the House of Commons. We there was talk of any referendum following the SNP chatted in Gaelic, a unique hybrid of Scots and Irish, landslide victory of 2011—it formed the only majority you might say, Mr Speaker. It transpired that he had Government anywhere in these islands—being a non-starter been to Downing street, where both sides had declared or even illegal, beyond the competence of the Scottish that relations had never been better between Dublin Parliament. When it became obvious that the referendum and London. They agreed on a variety of things, including was going to happen anyway, Westminster then reacted joint trade missions to Singapore, moves to have common late but correctly in reaching the Edinburgh agreement. visas for people travelling from China or India to the The process in Scotland has lately been described by UK and the Republic of Ireland, and cutting deals on President Obama, Secretary of State Kerry and the renewable energy. Foreign Minister of Poland, to name but three in a This House has changed and no one here thinks that diverse bunch, as a model of how to go about such Ireland should not be independent, or, indeed, the matters in a decent and civilised manner. 50 other nations of Europe that have contributed to the The negativity continued, however, and the Chancellor fourfold increase in the number of independent nations and his cohorts warned darkly that the referendum worldwide, which is now at 200. Europe now has as would deter investment in Scotland. I am pleased to tell many independent nations as the world had 100 years 891 Scotland (Independence) 2 APRIL 2014 892 (Westminster Representation) [Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil] Opposition Day ago. As Professor Steven Pinker says, there has never been a safer place for a human being to be alive in [UN-ALLOTTED HALF DAY] history than Europe right now. Scotland is following that successful tide of history. Energy Price Freeze The tide indicates that Scotland will be independent. Something is happening in Scotland: an ancient nation Mr Speaker: I should inform the House that I have is awakening to regain its statehood and to use its not selected the amendment. talents and resources for its people and to help and benefit others outwith our nation. The House, at the very least, should be aware of that and plan. Members 12.48 pm should have watched the report by Martin Geissler on Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): I beg to move, ITN a week last Thursday, which showed that people That this House welcomes the decision to refer the energy are returning to the electoral roll in droves after the poll market to the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) for tax debacle of 25 years ago. The yes campaign believes investigation; believes that this confirms that the energy market is that that is for a purpose. broken; notes that this investigation could take up to 18 months Scottish people want oil taxes to be controlled in and will not report until late 2015; further notes the decision by Scottish and Southern Energy to freeze electricity and gas prices Scotland, all general taxes to be controlled in Scotland, until 2016; further believes that all households and businesses welfare to be controlled in Scotland, and decisions on should be protected from any more unfair price rises while the whether our young men and women are involved in CMA investigation is ongoing; and calls on the Government to foreign wars to be controlled in Scotland. That is what freeze electricity and gas prices whilst the energy market is reformed we call independence and that is what we are moving to improve transparency, competition and accountability. towards. Scotland wants and needs to be part of those Last week, the House had a brief opportunity to domestic and international realities. The Scottish people debate the decision to refer the energy market for a full can do this, the Scottish people should do this and market investigation by the Competition and Markets Scotland must do this. This is where Scotland is going. Authority. That decision was confirmation, if ever it For the good of us all and to bring clarity, fairness and was needed, that Britain’s energy market is broken and democracy, I commend the Bill to the House, even that radical action is required. If it helps get to the though it would make me unemployed. bottom of exactly what has gone wrong with the market Question put and agreed to. and goes some way towards restoring consumers’ trust, Ordered, it is to be welcomed. That Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil, Angus Robertson, However, Ministers should be honest with the House Pete Wishart, Mr Mike Weir, Dr Eilidh Whiteford, today that a market investigation alone offers little Mr Elfyn Llwyd, Hywel Williams, Jonathan Edwards, comfort to consumers who are struggling now, because Caroline Lucas, David T. C. Davies and Andrew Percy it leaves them in the bizarre position of being told that present the Bill. competition in the market is not working and the prices that they pay are not fair, but that nothing will be done Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil accordingly presented about it for two years. First, Ofgem has to consult on the Bill. whether it should refer the energy market to the CMA. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on That will take two months. It will then have to consider Friday 6 June, and to be printed (Bill 196). all the responses and publish a final decision. That could take another month. Only then, which is likely to be the end of June at the very earliest, will Ofgem refer the matter formally to the CMA. The CMA investigation will then begin and that could take another 18 months. Today, therefore, I present to the House a simple motion with a simple proposal: while the investigation is ongoing, and while the energy market is being reformed, consumers should be protected from any more unfair price rises—not a voluntary price freeze by one company that benefits only some customers, but a price freeze for all households and small businesses. Time after time we have seen that voluntary approaches do not work. Consider the way that companies failed to pass on reductions in wholesale costs, and the way they sat on hundreds of millions of pounds of direct debit overpayments. Those companies have only ever changed their behaviour when forced to do so, and the Government should learn the lessons of those experiences and intervene to require all suppliers to freeze their prices. As we have said many times before, that would not prevent companies from cutting prices, but it would stop them from increasing them. The Government have the power to do that, and if they did so they would have our support. Although SSE’s decision to freeze its prices until 2016 may not go 893 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 894 far enough and may exclude small businesses, it is clear but who botched the privatisation of our utilities, sold evidence from within the industry that a price freeze off our country’s assets for much less than they were is possible. worth, and removed the restriction on vertical integration? It was not us; it was the previous Conservative Government. Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): The right As this week’s revelations about Royal Mail remind us, hon. Lady says that she supports a price freeze, but the they are the same old Tories. They might think they Government have announced a £50 cut to energy bills. know how to run a business, but they are not fit to Would Labour reverse that? govern.

Caroline Flint: I am afraid that despite the Government’s The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change tampering, bills have gone up by an average of £60. (Mr Edward Davey): It is not normally that I come to Furthermore, as a result of the Government’s tinkering, some colleagues’ defences, but since the right hon. Lady according to their impact assessment some 400,000 homes is talking about privatisation, which party lifted price will not receive energy insulation. That is not something controls on energy markets, and when? to stand up and crow about. Hon. Members may recall that there were those who Caroline Flint: It was a recommendation from Ofgem said that a price freeze was unworkable and impossible that we want to abolish. It was wrong and it did not to deliver. It is not normally in my nature to name and work, and I will get to that point. Unlike the Secretary shame people when their arguments have been well and of State, I came to this job to look seriously at what has truly demolished—[HON.MEMBERS: “Go on!”] Okay. gone wrong in the energy market, and since privatisation On this occasion, in the interests of openness and over 30 years ago, mistakes have been made. Mistakes transparency, I am obliged to remind the House of are being made now that could be put right if the what the Secretary of State said. This is the man who Secretary of State had the gumption to do it, but he told the House last week: does not. “We have never said that the big six could not have a price freeze.”,—[Official Report, 27 March 2014; Vol. 578, c. 479.] Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): The price freeze that my right hon. Friend is proposing is However, on the day my right hon. Friend the Leader of not an end in itself. Is not the fundamental problem that the Opposition made his speech to the Labour party the big six supply energy to 97% of homes and control conference, the Secretary of State said: 70% of power generation in this country? That means “Fixing prices in this way risks blackouts, jeopardises jobs and that people cannot shop around and often get overcharged. puts investment in clean, green technology in doubt”. Do we need the price freeze so that we can begin the Last week, he said that SSE’s decision to fix prices was process of resetting the market? “good news”. He added: “Let’s hope” Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend is right. It is a temporary —I emphasise hope— price freeze while we reform the market and restore “some of the other companies now follow.” faith and trust. That is absolutely necessary for the journey we are asking the British public to continue It may be in the Secretary of State’s nature to follow, with us in relation to energy. but it is in mine to lead. If he wants energy companies to freeze their prices, as he told the public last week, he Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): should not wait for them: he should do it now. Will the right hon. Lady give way? I take the security of our energy supply seriously. That is why the collapse in investment under this Caroline Flint: I will give way shortly but I want to Government is so worrying and why there has been so make a little progress. much concern about the length of time it took to get The Secretary of State lauds the days when there contracts for difference in place, and how long it is still were 15 energy suppliers, as if it were some nirvana of taking to get the capacity market up and running—policies competition where consumers had choice, customer we have supported. That is why in government we will service was great, and bills were low. He does not establish a dedicated energy security board. However, a mention that the reason there were 15 suppliers was Labour Government will not be held to ransom, and because there were 14 regional electricity suppliers, each neither must the Secretary of State. with a complete monopoly in their own area, and only one gas supplier, which had a monopoly across the Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Does the right hon. entire country. Consumers had no choice at all; nobody Lady accept that an externally imposed price freeze could switch, and that was that. Who gave ordinary does not control overseas supply or energy prices? consumers the power to choose who supplied their electricity, and who tried to open up the energy market Caroline Flint: The price freeze we have suggested is to full retail competition? It was the previous Labour in recognition of the dodgy dealing that has been going Government. on, and we have proof of the fact that when wholesale prices have gone down, they have not been passed on to Mr Davey: Will the right hon. Lady give way? the consumer. If the hon. Gentleman does not get that, he will not win at the next general election. Caroline Flint: I will give way shortly but I want to The Government were wrong about our price freeze, make this point. The Secretary of State also boasts that and today is their chance to atone for their error. They on his watch 18 new entrants are challenging the dominance have been wrong about much else besides. The Secretary of the big six. He is right: 18 other suppliers are in the of State likes to claim that Labour created the big six, domestic market, but when did they enter it? When did 895 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 896

[Caroline Flint] that we should not allow this issue to be kicked into the long grass. We should be planning our reforms now. companies such as Good Energy, First Utility, and Ovo The Secretary of State cannot ignore that. Energy enter the market? Was it under this Government? The Secretary of State told the House in a statement No, it was not—it was under the previous Labour last week that the energy market has improved since Government. 2010. Ofgem’s assessment shows precisely the opposite: things have got worse since 2010, not better. Apart from Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): Will the right a spike in switching in a couple of months at the end of hon. Lady give way? 2013—which I have to say had more to do with the Leader of the Opposition’s speech at the Labour conference Caroline Flint: I will finish this point. Good Energy: than anything the Government did—the number of 2003; First Utility: 2008; OVO: 2009. In total, there people of switching has fallen. The latest statistics, were not just six suppliers in 2010, as the Secretary of published by the Government last week, show that 2013 State likes to say, there were 14, and in recent years the was the second-worst year on record for the level of growth of those companies has begun to erode the switching. The spike at the end of 2013 appears to have market share of the big six. been completely reversed. Yes, there are more suppliers out there challenging Small suppliers have been gaining customers and their the incumbents, and the market share of the big six is market share has been growing, but paragraph 5.16 of down from a huge 99% to a still pretty massive 95%, but Ofgem’s assessment is clear that last year, for example, that is no thanks to the Secretary of State. If he does half the so-called growth in market share for smaller not even understand the problems with our energy suppliers actually resulted from npower selling Telecom market, why should anybody trust him to fix it? Let us Plus, which just so happens to have a 20-year contract with not forget that the only reason we are having this npower for its energy supply. In any case, as figures 28 debate, and the only reason the energy market has been and 29 show, the overall rate at which suppliers have referred to the Competition and Markets Authority, is been winning customers has fallen. Figure 39 of Ofgem’s the way in which Labour, along with others, has stood assessment also clearly shows that the total amount of up for customers and refused to be silenced. energy being traded has fallen in each year since the general election, as has the churn rate. Eric Ollerenshaw: Clearly, the right hon. Lady has thought carefully about the implications of a price The only things that have increased on this Government’s freeze. What discussions has she had with trade unions watch are people’s bills and the profits of the big energy and the energy industry about the possibility, should companies, which, paragraph 6.10 of the report notes, there be a price freeze, of a demand for a wages and have increased five-fold in the last three years—up from salary freeze in the energy industry? just £200 million in 2009 to £1.2 billion in 2012. Let us not forget the increase in households in fuel poverty, Caroline Flint: The energy companies have clearly and the growing queue of people who cannot get their been making profits that have not been reflected in home insulated after the Government’s tinkering with efficiencies in their organisations or a fair trade off bills last autumn. The Secretary of State must be so between what they should spend on getting bills down proud. and investment. I believe in this sector and that its The notion that the energy market is, as the Secretary potential growth is enormous. The truth, however, is of State puts it, “improving”, is very obviously wrong. that staff in those organisations are not served well by a What the report shows, and again I quote directly from management that refuses to faces up to its responsibilities section 4, is that to provide good customer service and efficient services “things are getting worse for consumers.” in which everyone can gain. The only people gaining at the moment are the big six chief executives and their That is the conclusion of the report; and that is a management boards, and those who benefit from the verdict on this Government’s record. profits they have made—unfair profits that have not been passed on and shared with consumers and investment. Martin Horwood: The right hon. Lady mentioned Good Energy. I met Good Energy this morning and it is Mr Davey: I am pleased that the Labour party now quite clear that Labour’s policy would cause it real supports the market investigation reference. Will the problems as a small green supplier. Is not the truth that right hon. Lady confirm that that was not the case a few this would be bad for competition, and, as it wrote to months ago, and that when the Leader of the Opposition the right hon. Lady, that it treats the symptom not the was doing my job and had a chance to take such action, cause? he did not?

Caroline Flint: In 2011, Labour, under my right hon. Caroline Flint: I am not surprised that energy suppliers, Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward big or small, do not like having their prices frozen. I Miliband), a previous Secretary of State for Energy and would be surprised if they did support it. However, Climate Change, supported a full market investigation. when Stephen Fitzpatrick, the chief executive of Ovo, The former Secretary of State opposed that. [Interruption.] was asked whether it would affect his company model, No, I am sorry, but this is a very important point. he said: Labour supported an investigation two and a half years “No I don’t think so, we set up our business to make sure that ago and the Government opposed it. Labour then looked we are able to pass on the greatest amount of savings possible to at ways of reforming the market, short of a CMA. The energy customers.” truth is that we welcome the CMA, but we also know When asked, “Will you be affected?” he replied: 897 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 898

“No I think it will probably be great for our business to see any or improvement in customer service. They are simply kind of pressure put on the big six.” getting away with passing on cost increases, but not cost The same goes for Co-operative Energy. The big prize reductions. for Good Energy, Co-operative Energy, Ovo and the The second problem is market segmentation: suppliers others is a reforming of the market to ensure that they enjoying big market shares in their old monopoly areas, have greater access to the products they wish to sell. and companies charging some customers, particularly There is a big prize for them that many of them support loyal customers, significantly more than others, even through our reforms. though they are providing them with an identical product. Thirdly, there is tacit co-ordination between suppliers: Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): I price announcements, normally increases of similar hesitate to interrupt a very good speech. Those of us amounts, being announced at the same time and with who support the reference to the CMA worry that there growing lead-in times. Fourthly, there are barriers to will be another 18 months—there will be a new entry and expansion for new players in the market. In Government, which will obviously be a Labour particular, the lack of liquidity in the wholesale market Government—when we still will not have tackled the makes it difficult for non-integrated players to access deep disaster of the mess that the Conservative party power at competitive prices. The fifth problem is weak made of the privatisation of the energy sector. We need customer pressure: low and declining levels of customer a fundamental look at energy, root and branch. trust in this market. That is the final reason a price freeze is so important. Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend is right. In the statement Yes, it is about compensating consumers for overcharging last week, I thought he made a very fair contribution, in the past. Yes, it is about protecting them from any saying, “Look, there are real problems here that we all more unfair price rises while the market is being reformed have to acknowledge, address and deal with.” I welcome for the future, but it is also a line in the sand. It tells the the reference to the CMA, but we cannot allow the companies that their days of overcharging are over, and silence that some Government Members would now it tells consumers that the rules of the game have like to follow on this issue of public importance. That is changed for good. It tells them that the rules are no why we have to draw a line in the sand and have a freeze. longer set by six giant companies, but by one Government It is also why we should get on with some of the other acting for the many not the mighty few. ways in which we can address the reforms that are necessary in this market. I have been very open that Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): Did not Ofgem there may be aspects of the CMA investigation into this identify—in, I think 2008—16 things it thought was murky world that will find other issues that Labour has wrong with the energy market? It admitted, in 2011, yet to look at and that might be helpful to our reform that 12 of them had got worse or had stayed the same. programme. I very much welcome that, but we cannot Is it not key to have an energy watchdog that stands up allow this issue to be kicked into the long grass. for consumers, takes on the big six and rectifies the The report clearly highlights the need for reform in issues my right hon. Friend has identified? our energy market, as we have made clear for the last three years. It identifies five significant problems that Caroline Flint: My hon. Friend is right to draw attention are preventing consumers from enjoying the full benefits to recent Ofgem investigations. In fact, in the past six of competition. None of them is new. years I think it has had three major investigations: on supply, the retail market and the wholesale market. It has failed to get to grips with the real problem. We have Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): In Northern Ireland, seen piecemeal changes that are just not having any there are just two electricity companies: Power NI and impact. Even when there were recommendations about Airtricity. Last year, Power NI put up its prices by 14%. the market and how it could be reformed, it did not take Does the right hon. Lady feel that it is time we had a them on board. It is only recently that it seems to be more open market with more suppliers, so that the price waking up to that. can come down, and that the sooner that happens, the sooner we can take advantage of that? Ultimately, competition will work only if companies are constrained by the fear of losing customers if they increase their prices too much. Consumers will be prepared Caroline Flint: I absolutely agree, which is why one of to engage in the market, to invest their time and effort our proposals is to create an electricity pool or power to secure the best deal, only if they believe the market is exchange whereby all energy for that sector is put into a fair and if there are proper rules in place to prevent pool, enabling anybody to come in and compete on them from being ripped-off. We should be honest, too, price to retail. Small suppliers, and, I have to say, that switching cannot be the only metric of a healthy increasingly some of the bigger players, recognise that market. There will always be those for whom regular this idea is making some headway in the discussions on switching is not a reality, either because they do not what the future should offer. We look to Northern have the confidence to switch, even in a simplified Ireland and other countries to learn from their experiences. system, or because they may have the confidence, but We do not operate in a bubble; it is worth looking are time-poor and seem to spend their whole life switching elsewhere for ideas. from one thing to another. A healthy market must be a The report identifies five significant problems. Many managed market, and that is why the price freeze is so of them were things that Labour Members raised in the important. eight previous Opposition day debates on this issue and that feature in our Green Paper. The first problem is Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland weak competition. Companies are able to increase their West) (Lab): My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol profit margins at will, without any obvious efficiencies East (Kerry McCarthy) mentioned Ofgem a moment 899 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 900

[Mrs Sharon Hodgson] responsibility of the regulator itself for allowing the very market conditions that it now laments to come to ago. In its report on energy prices, profits and fuel pass in the first place. poverty, the Select Committee said that Ofgem was I have challenged the Secretary of State on that point “failing consumers”, and had not been properly using many times in the past, and so far he has been a the powers at its disposal. Last December, the Secretary steadfast defender of Ofgem. As was mentioned earlier of State said that Ofgem was “fit for purpose”. Does by my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and my hon. Friend agree? Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson), on 2 December last year he told the House: Caroline Flint: I agree with the Select Committee, and I do not agree with the Secretary of State. I shall come “Ofgem is fit for purpose.”—[Official Report, 2 December 2013; to the question of why the role of Ofgem has been Vol. 571, c. 634.] omitted from the market investigation, because it is a On 4 September, he said that he disagreed with my very important part of the future reform of the sector. statement that Ofgem was not using its powers. However, As my hon. Friends have pointed out, our motion the very fact that Ofgem has chosen to refer the market makes clear that the price freeze would be only a to the CMA represents a clear admission that it has not temporary measure during the reform of the energy been able to regulate the market properly and protect market. However, the House should be in no doubt consumers. Had it been able to do so, there would have about the fact that the public have heard Labour’s case been no need for a full market investigation. for reform, and they want change. The companies have heard our case as well. Alistair Phillips-Davies, chief Let me put my question to the Secretary of State executive of SSE, said last week that the Leader of the again. Does he feel that Ofgem should remain as it is, or Opposition had does he agree with me that we need to abolish it and establish a new, tougher regulator? Markets must have “changed the way people look at the energy market”. rules, and if we are undertaking a proper market That is why, last week, SSE announced not just a price investigation, surely it is necessary to consider carefully freeze until 2016 but that it would legally separate its the process by which those rules are set and how they supply business from its generation businesses, which is are enforced. If we win the next election, we will scrap what we had called for. At least two other firms claim Ofgem and create a tough new regulator, but even those that they already operate in that way. who take a different view must surely now accept that What we cannot have is companies going away—perhaps the performance of Ofgem is a legitimate matter for the in an attempt to pre-empt reforms that they know are CMA itself to investigate. coming—and leaving the public with six versions of I care about this sector. I want it to do well, to serve what reform looks like. These reforms need to be consistent, its customers well, and to treat its staff well. Given the led by the Government, and backed up by proper transition to a smarter, lower-carbon economy, it has powers of enforcement. Our Green Paper proposes a the potential to be a massive success story for our number of significant reforms, namely a ring fence country, but if we are to take the country with us on between generation and supply, an end to secret trades that journey, people must have faith in the market and and self-supply, the introduction of a pool in which all the regulation that underpins it. There are those who generators and all suppliers can compete openly and on say that politicians should not interfere, but they are price, new powers to penalise anti-competitive behaviour wrong. I did not come to this brief with a prepared and protect consumers, new protections for off-grid agenda, but what I discovered about the way in which customers and small businesses—2 million rural customers the energy market works, and the history of its botched and millions of businesses will be properly protected for privatisation, shocked me. Yes, the energy market is a the first time—and simpler and fairer tariffs. free market, but a free market works only when there are proper rules to ensure competition and fair play, David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Will the and it falls to us, as politicians, to set those rules. right hon. Lady give way? Let me make a prediction. The energy market will Caroline Flint: No. I have already given way quite change: it will be reformed. The public will pay a fair generously, and others wish to speak. price for their energy, and after that painful process of Last week’s report and the decision to initiate a full reform, some of the energy companies will thank us for market investigation only serve to highlight how important restoring the public’s trust in their industry. The question and urgent the process of reform is. Of course the CMA before the House, however, is this: will the Government will undertake its independent investigation and reach help to make that happen, or will they stand on the its own conclusions, but if there are measures that we sidelines doing nothing? Will they vacillate, play for could take now to improve the market and make it work time, and hope that the problem is kicked into the long better for consumers, we should take them. grass before the next election, so that fixing it will become the job of another Minister? This is decision There was one subject on which Ofgem’s report was— time. Will the Government act decisively in the consumer’s perhaps unsurprisingly— silent: the role and performance interest, or will they fail the test again, as they have of Ofgem itself. In recent months, much attention has done so many times before? rightly been focused on the behaviour of the energy companies: the prices they have charged, and the way in Today we can send a clear message that the days of which they have mistreated their customers. However, rip-off energy bills are over. Should we freeze bills until companies operate only within the framework set by the market is fixed for the future? That is the decision the regulator. When we challenge these companies over that we now face. There must be no more running away. their behaviour, it is only right for us to assess the It is time for the Government to do their job: it is time 901 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 902 for them to govern. I urge all Members who care about When the energy companies next consider price rises, the unfairness of energy bills to join us in the Lobby they will do so in the face of an imminent report by the this afternoon, and I commend the motion to the Competition and Markets Authority, to be published in House. 2015. We shall then be able to consider, on the basis of proper evidence and tough action and advice from the 1.16 pm independent competition experts, how best to reform our energy markets further to help customers. Of course, The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change if there were a huge shift in wholesale prices or network (Mr Edward Davey): When we debated this same topic costs between now and that point, we would expect the in November last year, I said that I would welcome energy companies to respond, so let us think about every opportunity to debate the best way in which to what would happen in that circumstance under the help people and improve Britain’s energy markets, so I Opposition’s plans put forward today. For the sake of am grateful to the right hon. Member for Don Valley debate, let us do a thought experiment. (Caroline Flint) for at last returning to the topic—not least because we took another huge step forward last week with the publication of the first annual competition Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab) rose— assessment, an assessment that we had commissioned, and Ofgem’s proposal to refer the energy market to the Mr Davey: If the hon. Gentleman wants to come in Competition and Markets Authority for a full market with a thought experiment, that will be very welcome. investigation. We are supporting a step forward for the consumer Paul Flynn: The right hon. Gentleman talked about that the last Government ducked time and again. We shifts in the wholesale price. What effect does he think now have an independent, impartial, evidence-based, imported and home-produced shale gas will have on fair and just process for ensuring that the markets are prices in the United Kingdom in the next five and working properly for consumers. I am delighted that the 10 years? official Opposition have changed their minds and backed us on that, but today I want to address directly the Mr Davey: I think it will have hardly any effect, if any question at hand, which is whether there should be a effect at all. The case for shale gas is to do with energy Government-imposed energy price freeze in the meantime. security, as I have made clear many times. Quite simply, my answer to that question is no, because it would not work, and, in fact, would hurt the consumer. Returning to my thought experiment, let us imagine We do not need an investment-damaging, Government- what would happen if there were a legally imposed price imposed, heavy-handed, blanket price freeze anyway, freeze—prices frozen by the state, not by individual because the markets are already responding to the firms. What would happen if wholesale prices shot up? Government’s actions, sometimes by cutting prices. Let us say Russia invades Ukraine and gas prices in Following our action at the end of last year to reduce Europe shoot up. Would a Labour Government keep bills by an annual average of £50—a move that the right prices frozen then? I do not know if they are sure hon. Lady seemed to oppose yet again today—the rises themselves. The right hon. Member for Don Valley that were announced by the companies last year have might want to confirm whether they would keep prices been reduced, and, as a result, all the major energy frozen then. Their price freeze is not really a price companies have said that there should be no need to freeze; it is a con. Let us assume, however, that whatever raise prices this year. Some companies have gone further: happened to wholesale gas markets and prices, they npower has pledged that there will be no further price would freeze prices. The truth is that would hit the small rises for customers on standard variable tariffs until at players and play into the hands of the big six. As Ian least the spring of 2015, and SSE has said that, owing to McCaig, chief executive of First Utility, the largest of the Government’s actions, it will not raise standard the new independents, said: variable tariffs until 2016 at the earliest. By acting “Bluntly, it could put me under… How am I going to absorb properly, this Government—unlike their predecessor—have those costs? I only retail, I don’t generate. The answer is, I can’t.” made the energy companies start bearing down on the prices that people pay. Mr Sheerman rose—

Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): My right hon. Mr Davey: Maybe the hon. Gentleman will tell me Friend mentioned the Scottish and Southern Energy how small suppliers would cope. price freeze, which will be greatly welcomed by my constituents. In her opening remarks, the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) quoted the Mr Sheerman: I think it was Harold Macmillan who chief executive of that company. I wonder whether she, said, “Events dear boy, events.” Of course there will be and my right hon. Friend, are aware that the company major events—ones that we could not predict at this stated clearly last week: moment—but I know the right hon. Gentleman to be “An externally-imposed 20-month price freeze would not reduce an honest gentleman so he must acknowledge that the the costs of supplying energy.” real difference—it changed the whole momentum of There are many reasons for that, which I hope my right this debate—was the speech at the Labour party conference hon. Friend will proceed to enunciate. by the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr Davey: My hon. Friend is quite right. SSE’s press Mr Davey: That is simply not true. We were reforming release made it clear that its price freeze had come the markets from day one because we had inherited the about because of this Government’s actions. big six from the Labour party. 903 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 904

[Mr Davey] but it supported Ofgem’s retail and wholesale market reforms by having reserved powers to make sure they Let us return to the small independent competitors. went through. Those powers are in place and are making In its response to Labour’s Green Paper, Good Energy sure those reforms go through. said: I was talking about Labour’s bad energy policy, and “The proposed price freeze poses a disproportionate impact let us look at its record in government on energy markets for smaller companies such as ourselves as we do not have the and prices. In the retail markets, Labour allowed the big same level of vertical integration as the big 6 which allows us to companies to choke off proper competition—the very control our costs.” competition that privatised markets need in order to If raw energy costs rise during a freeze, vertically integrated operate in the interests of consumers. It created Labour’s firms with deep pockets can withstand a profits squeeze, big six—the big six that dominate retail and wholesale but smaller, retail-only firms would go bankrupt. Result: markets. reduced competitive pressure on the big six and higher overall prices when the freeze comes to an end. Caroline Flint: As I said in my speech, when we left government there were 18 suppliers including the big Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Given the six, and also it was under Labour that we gave the first very high cost of wind energy, does the Secretary of opportunity for people to switch. Is it not the case that State think there should now be some limit on the there were more than just six suppliers when we left subsidy going to that sector to try and keep bills down? government? Is it not also the case, as confirmed by the House of Commons Library, that energy bills have Mr Davey: There is a limit, of course. The right hon. risen three times faster under this Government than Gentleman ought to follow this debate more closely. under the last Government? Indeed, we have reduced subsidies and our policy is to reduce them still further. Mr Davey: I will come to that point in a second The truth is that, rather than helping consumers, because I do not believe that is true; I have got completely Labour’s price freeze is a pro-big six policy. For all the different figures. The right hon. Lady is right to say, bluster about taking on the big six, the right hon. however, that it was not just the big six who were Member for Don Valley is just playing into their hands. competing in the retail market. There were at that time If Labour makes the smaller competitors go bankrupt, eight other independent suppliers—there are more now, the people who will enjoy that are the big six, and the as we have increased the number. However, the critical right hon. Lady knows that. figure is not the number of energy suppliers, it is how many customers they have. Under Labour, the small Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): As suppliers were not able to grow. Very few—only one, I part of the right hon. Gentlemen’s thought experiment, think—had more than 100,000 customers, and they has he considered how far down the curve the very large were not able to expand. What we did very early in our energy companies purchase the bulk of their forward time was deregulate, and because we deregulated, those energy supplies and the relationship between that forward independent suppliers were able to grow their customer purchase and small energy companies purchasing on base. So it has been the actions of this Government that the back of larger purchases than necessary for the have increased the competitive pressure on the big six—it obligations of the large energy companies? How does is nothing to do with the last Government. that fit in with this thought experiment about small energy companies going bust if large energy companies Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): On the issue are buying so far ahead of the curve? of competition, in 2009 Ofgem introduced licence lite, the purpose of which was to enable small community Mr Davey: It fits in exactly, and I am delighted that generators to use the local grid in order to access the hon. Gentleman has raised that point. The larger customers directly. Since then, however, no permits companies can buy 18 months ahead, so if there is a rise have been issued, and the community energy generators in wholesale gas prices, they are hedged—they are protected. still have to rely on selling their product through the The smaller companies find it much harder to buy national grid at wholesale prices. Does my right hon. ahead, so if the wholesale prices go up, they get crushed. Friend agree that in order to boost competition in this That is the truth about Labour’s policy. It may seem sector, which is the obvious answer in terms of prices, popular in Labour’s focus groups, but I am afraid it has those community energy generators should have guaranteed not been thought through. As The Guardian said, it is access to the grid at an agreed fee so that they can “good politics”, but it is “bad policy”. benefit from doing deals directly with local customers?

Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): I am not sure Mr Davey: My hon. Friend is right: the licence lite whether the right hon. Gentleman’s thought experiment introduced under the last Government has not been had started when he drove his Energy Act 2013 through working very well. However, the Greater London authority Parliament, which he certainly took plenty of time to has been talking to Ofgem to see if it can get a licence do. Can he point to one single measure in that Act lite for London in order to help community generators which has increased and supported competition? and act as a sort of enabler. When we were drawing up the community energy strategy—which has not been Mr Davey: I am glad that the hon. Lady has mentioned mentioned in a single question from Opposition the Energy Act 2013, because she voted for it. If she Members—we sat around the table and looked at this looks at the detail, she will see that not only did it issue and we realised that this needs to continue further. reform Ofgem by giving it more powers to grant So if my hon. Friend looks at the community energy compensation to consumers who were badly treated, strategy, he will see that we are taking action. We have 905 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 906 set up a working group to look at it—not just to take on hon. Lady clearly still has not read, shows that the small the licence lite issue, which was so badly handled under independent generators that would benefit from more the last Government, but to see what else we can do to liquidity said that the problem is not in the day-ahead help precisely the people my hon. Friend is talking market, and that the pool would not help; rather, the about. [Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Don real problem is with the liquidity in the forward market, Valley says from a sedentary position that Ofgem is and that is exactly what Ofgem is dealing with. As of failing again. Let us remind the House who set up this month, the market maker obligation will create far Ofgem: it was Labour. Let us remind Labour and the greater transparency than ever existed in the markets rest of the House that when the Leader of the Opposition under the last Government. Whether it is through Ofgem was doing my job, he reformed Ofgem to make it or this Government, we are taking action—real action—to function more in the interests of the consumer. That bring in competition where Labour did nothing. was just a few years ago, so perhaps the right hon. Lady will tell us what went wrong with Ofgem under Labour. Andrew Gwynne: The Secretary of State talks the talk on competition. I know he is a Liberal Democrat, but Caroline Flint: As everybody knows, Ofgem was a does he not regret that the Energy Act, which took merger of the gas and electricity regulators. The difference more than a year to complete its legislative passage, between the Secretary of State and me is that I am did not contain a single concrete measure to improve prepared to acknowledge when things are not working, competition in the wholesale or retail energy markets? and he is not. When is he going to stop defending a regulator that has not been doing its job? Mr Davey: That is simply not true. I have talked about the powers to back up Ofgem on the retail market Mr Davey: This is good—let us examine what the and wholesale market review, which clearly the hon. right hon. Lady wants to do. She wants to abolish a Gentleman either does not understand or did not notice. regulator quango and replace it with another one. She For example, there is the power of the off-taker of last promises lots of tougher powers but never tells us what resort to promote greater competition in the generating they are. We have legislated in the Energy Act 2013 to market. I do not know where Labour Members have increase the powers. She needs to tell us why, under this been, but they certainly have not been focusing on the Government, Ofgem has been far more proactive on debate. competition. Why was it that under this Government, The right hon. Member for Don Valley asked me Ofgem undertook the retail market review? Why was it about energy prices under the last Government and this that under this Government, it addressed the wholesale one, so let us go through them. We should not fall into market, and when we debated its reforms the right hon. the trap of simply blaming the energy markets and Lady had to admit that she had not even read its paper? Labour’s big six for higher energy bills. Let us be honest: everyone in this House knows that the main Caroline Flint rose— driver of energy price rises in recent years has been rising wholesale costs. The average wholesale gas price Mr Davey: Do tell us about reforms to competition, in 2013 was more than double that of 2007. [Interruption.] because Labour is behind the curve on every single one I will say that again, because the right hon. Lady was of them. not listening. The average wholesale gas price in 2013 was more than double that of 2007. The wholesale Caroline Flint: Honestly, the Secretary of State is just electricity price was up by almost two thirds. According living inside his own thought bubble. We have made to DECC statistics, in almost every year under Labour, very clear on countless occasions some of the changes energy bills rose. Under Labour in 2005, energy bills we would expect to see under a tough new regulator, as I went up by 12%. In 2006 under Labour, energy bills went reiterated today. One significant power would be that if up by 20%. In 2008 under Labour, energy bills went up our regulator saw that reductions in wholesale costs by 16%. In the last Parliament under Labour, energy were not being passed on to the customer, there would bills rose by a whopping 63%. In this Parliament, yes, be a statutory power to enable it to force them to be they have risen, but at a significantly lower rate than in passed on if the energy companies do not play ball. the last Parliament, when the current Leader of the Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with that? Opposition was Energy Secretary—8% a year in this Parliament compared with 11% a year in the last. Mr Davey: I agree with the market investigation reference looking at all those issues. Not only is the Caroline Flint: I asked the House of Commons Library Labour party’s policy position behind the curve, as I to look into this issue on Monday, and it confirmed that will explain in a second; it wants to pre-judge the energy bills are rising more than three times faster outcome of the conclusion reached by the competition under this Government than they did under the last authorities. We have expert, independent competition Government. The Office for Budget Responsibility has authorities that will look at these issues in a considered shown that prices are rising at twice the rate of inflation. way, but Labour wants to pre-judge them. That is not We can bandy around figures all we like—the truth is surprising, however, because its policies in this area are that people want fair prices. They are prepared to pay a so hopeless. fair price if they think the market is not fixed, and the The right hon. Lady talks about a pool. She does not Secretary of State has failed to attempt to deal with that know that the day-ahead market, which is very much situation, which is of great concern to the British public. like a pool and was trading only 5% of electricity when Labour was in power, is now trading over 50% of Mr Davey: The problem with the right hon. Lady’s electricity—a massive increase in liquidity in the day-ahead analysis is that she fails to understand that the wholesale market. Moreover, the Ofgem analysis, which the right gas market drives the vast majority of the bill. I set out 907 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 908

[Mr Davey] This is a gimmick, not a policy. It is a shambles, and it is back to the 1970s. Given that it clearly will not work that history to show that when wholesale gas and electricity for consumers, might it work for businesses? Typically, prices were going up—actually, faster under the last large non-domestic customers have bespoke sophisticated Government than this one—we were not saying that it fixed-term contracts which pass through each element was all the fault of the energy companies; a lot of the of third-party costs. How would the price freeze work fault lay with wholesale gas and raw energy costs. for them? What would happen to a contract whose term Frankly, the right hon. Lady’s unwillingness to recognise ended during the freeze? Alternatively, will comrades on that demeans her, because it shows that she is not the Opposition Benches decree that contracts need to dealing with the real problem and could not really do be renegotiated ahead of a freeze? Will the comrades the job. stop at energy price freezes? Are there plans to freeze rail fares or water charges? In the past six years butter Caroline Flint: Does the Secretary of State acknowledge and margarine prices have gone up faster than energy that four years-worth of data show that in 2009, wholesale prices. What is the plan for butter and margarine prices? gas and electricity prices fell by some 46% but that The right hon. Lady tries very hard to paint her party reduction was never passed on to the consumer in the out of the picture and to blame others for the problems following years? we face, but after 13 years of Labour rule, it was not just a wrecked economy that the coalition inherited four Mr Davey: The right hon. Lady is absolutely right in years ago. We inherited an energy infrastructure future that, as the recession took place there was a period with a huge multibillion-pound black hole at its heart, when wholesale gas prices plummeted, because the economy the result of years of underinvestment, dithering and was in such a mess that the demand for energy was delay, and we inherited a retail energy market which, reduced. However, she ought to be careful about going over 13 years of a Labour Government, had been stripped too far on this issue. of proper competition and had become hugely complex Whatever the price rises are, there is a problem for and confusing for consumers, with prices rocketing and consumers. We know that incomes have fallen as we no avenue of escape from the clutches of the big six. have emerged from Labour’s great recession, and the In both these areas—in investment in infrastructure fact that price rises have been slowing will be of little and in reforming the markets—this coalition Government comfort. I can, therefore, understand why a promise of have had to clear up the mess that Labour left behind. a blanket, Government-imposed energy price freeze Look at the investment figures. The Office for National might seem popular, but as I will demonstrate, it is not a Statistics figures show that from 2005 to 2009, average price freeze but a con. investment in the electricity sector was around £5 billion At no point have the Opposition explained how their a year. That was far too low for the country’s needs. We proposal would actually work, so let us try to get to the had to work tirelessly to turn it around, and we have. bottom of their thinking with a few questions. Are they Since 2010 investment has continued to rise. On average proposing to freeze all current tariffs in their existing in this Parliament it has risen by almost £8 billion a state, in real cash terms? Would people be able to switch year. In 2012 investment exceeded £10 billion—the highest back from a higher but longer fixed-rate tariff to a figure on record—and we have a pipeline worth £187 billion, lower, variable-rate tariff before that variable rate became including the first nuclear power station in a generation. fixed by law? If a cut-price deal was set to end during There have been record levels of investment in renewables. the freeze, would suppliers be forced to continue it until Bloomberg estimates that average annual investment in the freeze ends, penalising firms who try to help their renewables has more than doubled in this Parliament, customers? compared with the previous one. Last year electricity We know the problem for smaller competitors if generated by onshore wind rose by 36%. Offshore wind wholesale prices rise. They tell us that they would go is up 45%. Solar is up by almost 70%. Low-carbon bust under Labour’s energy price freeze. But what if generation now makes up more than 35% of the electricity wholesale prices fall during the freeze? Is Labour proposing mix. Emissions are coming down, the share of clean to prevent firms from passing on that price fall? power is going up and investment in new infrastructure [Interruption.] I am delighted that the right hon. Lady is booming. Under this coalition the lights will stay on, said that, because it is clear that Labour will not prevent and we will go green. bills being cut. Instead, would Labour legislate to force When it comes to their policy detail, we have learned companies to pass on each and every cut in wholesale nothing today about what the Opposition are proposing. prices, and how would that work? It is a reasonable It is a slogan, not a policy. This Government are getting question. Would Labour legislate to force price cuts on with the complex task of mending the markets to during the freeze, or would companies be able to hold serve the best interests of consumers. We have transformed on? If a company has bought its gas 18 months ahead, the retail market, increasing competition, challenging paying a higher price on the wholesale markets, would the power of the big six and putting customers more Labour still force it to cut or freeze its prices, bankrupting firmly in the driving seat. We have minimised the impact it? of Government policy on bills while protecting help to The Opposition want to intervene in the markets to the poorest, protecting investment in low carbon and control prices and second-guess global price changes, so maintaining emissions reductions. they must have the answers to these questions. Would smaller suppliers be exempt from the price freeze? How Margot James: Talking of the stimulus to competition would the price freeze be applied to new entrants? under this Government, may I remind my right hon. Alternatively, is Labour happy to see a return to the big Friend that, despite reducing the subsidy from 43p to six, with just a smaller number of suppliers? the 13p tariff, this Government have seen the number of 909 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 910 homes supplied by solar power increase from 15,000 to forcing consumers back into the hands of the big six. more than half a million? Is that not testimony to some Let us continue to expose Labour’s energy gimmick to of the excellent work of this Government? the oxygen of debate between now and the next election. The Sun may well re-run the Kinnock front page from Mr Davey: My hon. Friend is right. Although we 1992. have managed to reduce the subsidies to solar and onshore wind, we are seeing a boom in renewable electricity investment. 1.48 pm John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): I find Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): Is the Secretary of the Secretary of State’s rather patronising attitude towards State comparing and contrasting the years 2009 and my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley 2010 to 2013, and seriously telling the House of Commons (Caroline Flint) somewhat distasteful. [Interruption.] I that many of the billion-pound contracts for offshore know he is not listening, but it will be in Hansard.He wind started and finished in the period to which he can read about it later. If he wants to conduct his refers, or will he be honest with us and say that we need politics in that manner, may I suggest he goes out in the continuity of policy by consent, so that we can get the street to do so? Or he should try to conduct himself in a policy structure we all need? Will he stop playing silly manner befitting of the House. games about years and trying to blame the previous Government? Let me explain something to the Secretary of State. He obviously does not understand what the word “freeze” means. It means that something is stopped. It is solid Mr Davey: I am prepared to give credit to all parties, and it stays where it is. He seems to have missed that. which is something the Opposition rarely do. I am I noticed that he said he had challenged the big six. I pleased that they voted for our Energy Act 2013 and would be interested to know when and what he did to now support the market investigation reference, but it make them do anything, other than be very nice to them was the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, in and help them to increase their prices, as they have opposition, who had to push time and again to get the done. The Energy and Climate Change Committee has Labour Government to act on things such as feed-in done more to attack the big six and make them toe the tariffs, so we will not take any lectures on that. line than his Government have done. We are acting to bring far greater openness to the retail markets so that the energy suppliers can be held to Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): My account for their prices, and we are acting to increase hon. Friend raises an interesting point in asking what liquidity in the wholesale markets, further boosting the Secretary of State has done to challenge the big six. competition. All these actions maintain the pressure The big six actually bought off the Secretary of State by that bears down on prices. As the competition authorities proposing a £50 reduction on people’s bills, amounting take forward their work in the proper manner, we will to 97p a week. They were laughing at him. continue to act to ensure that we have a real evidence base on how to continue to mend the markets that Labour ran into the ground. That work will take around John Robertson: I thank my hon. Friend for that; he is 18 months to complete, but as I said at the start, of course right. because of Government action, the energy companies Let us face it: we are where we are. It does not really are now saying that there should be no further rises in matter what the Con-Dem Government have done in bills over the next year unless circumstances change the past four years, or what the last Labour Government drastically. Some have gone further, and I welcome that. did in the previous 13 years. The problem is what is happening now. Fuel poverty is a bigger problem today Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): It seems that the than it ever was. We could say that that is a result of bad way to bring prices down for consumers is to encourage government and that it is this Government’s fault because more independents, which seem to have tripled their they have been in power for four years and they should customer base over the past two years. Will we get more have done something. Well, they did do something. The independents, as they seem to keep their prices down? Secretary of State talked about getting reports and asking for suggestions, and he has done that. His predecessor Mr Davey: My hon. Friend is right. The independents’ also did it, resulting in the Hills report. share of the retail market has gone from 1% in 2010 to The Hills report stated that nearly 2.4 million people 5% under this Government. We have seen people switching were still in fuel poverty, and the gap between their bills from the big six to the small independents. Just last and what they could afford was getting wider. It also month 40% of those switching went to the smaller found that about 3,000 people could be expected to die independent suppliers. Their customer base has been over the course of a winter as a result of Government growing, but it is because we are not complacent, unlike policy. That was not necessarily all to do with energy, the previous Government, that we have asked Ofgem to however; it referred to Government policy overall, and make their competition assessment, and we are supporting it applied to all Governments. This was a good report, its proposal for a market investigation reference. and it was commissioned by a Liberal Secretary of Were the Government to fix prices by law, as the State. But what have the Government done since then? Opposition propose, without any idea of the consequences, How many lives have been saved since the Hills report? we would risk undoing all the progress we have made What action have they taken to tackle fuel poverty? for consumers and business, risking the investment we The answer, Secretary of State, is that you have done need to keep the lights on into the next decade for absolutely nothing. Sadly, more people are dying now consumers, undermining the independent suppliers and than when the Hills report first came out. An energy 911 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 912

[John Robertson] I believe that it takes so long to act because it is frightened to make certain decisions and because it freeze might not be the answer to everything, but if you does not think it will have the backing of the Government. are happy with the way Ofgem is running things, with the way the energy market is conducting itself and with David Mowat: On the hon. Gentleman’s point about the present state of affairs, then do as you are doing the CEO of Centrica, what Sam Laidlaw actually said now: do absolutely nothing— was that, if there was a possibility of his business being split into two halves in a couple of years, it would affect Mr Speaker: Order. May I very gently exhort the hon. his propensity to invest in one of those halves until the Gentleman not to use the word “you”? I know that he is matter had been sorted out. That seems quite a reasonable doing it for the purpose of emphasis, but it is undesirable statement to make. He did not say that the lights would if it is widely mimicked. He is felicitous of phrase—he go out. can express himself in a different way. John Robertson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his John Robertson: I apologise, Mr Speaker. Thank you intervention. If he is right and I am wrong, I apologise, for pointing out to anyone who might have thought I but that is not what it said in the newspapers. That is was talking to you that I was actually talking to the not how the CEO was quoted. He was quoted as saying Secretary of State. that the lights could go out. To me, that sounded like the big bully threatening people in the playground: “I’m It is up to the Secretary of State to look at this going to put your lights out.” That is basically what he problem. He has called the proposal from my right hon. was saying to us. Well, I know how to deal with bullies, Friend the Member for Don Valley a “con”, but I do and it is not my lights that will be going out. I say to the not think it is a con if we try to do something. I believe CEO of British Gas that if he and his company cannot that we need to fix the industry, because the big six are do their job, there are plenty of other companies that not doing the job that they should be doing. It is they would like to take it on. If that is the case, let us sell it who are conning people. It is a bit rich for the Secretary off to other people who are willing to do the job. We do of State to say that we are conning the public, when it is not need to listen to bullies telling us how they want to the energy companies that are doing the conning. They run the country. That is a matter for the Government, are the ones putting up the bills, and the public have to after all. respond by paying them their money. We have heard a lot about the green levies, which the So let us have a freeze. Let us look at the energy Government have reduced. Some of us felt that that was companies and see what they are doing, and if we have not the right thing to do. Having said that, if people’s to fix the situation—as I believe we will—let us try to do bills were to be reduced by £50 as a result, that would it in a window lasting between 18 months and two have been great. But their bills were not reduced by £50; years. If we can fix it in that time, and if the energy they have gone up by £60. The energy companies are companies end up out of pocket, it will be up to the saying to our constituents, “Hey, good news! The Government to fulfil the need that has been lost, rather Government have just saved you £50”, but a lady in my than the general public, because the freeze will have constituency could not even afford the bills before the been imposed by the Government of the day, which I £60 increase, so no credit is due to the Government hope will be a Labour Government. The most important there. thing is to look after the people in this country who are I ask the Government to look into this matter, and it living in fuel poverty. In Scotland, 1 million people would be much better to do this in a cross-party manner. classify themselves as fuel poor. When we add that to I believe that this Secretary of State is doing his very the figure for England, it takes us well above the 2.4 million best to stop the multi-party arrangements in energy, but figure that we had years ago. We need to do something in the past we have always got on well together. We about that. ought to work together as a team to try to get the The energy companies have shown their true face country back together again and to put an end to this recently. The chief executive officer of British Gas—a point scoring. company that had a monopoly on gas supply for years—has said if a price freeze were imposed, there would be Mr Sheerman: My hon. Friend makes a good point blackouts. If the Secretary of State believes that that is about the importance of working together across the right, it will be up to him to sort out the problem, parties. Does he agree that, if the Secretary of State and because it is the duty of the Government to ensure that the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and the lights do not go out. The CEO might try to blame Skills did not have the Minister of State, Department of people for proposing a freeze, but I believe that a freeze Energy and Climate Change, the right hon. Member for would be helpful in sorting out the energy business in Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon) standing guard over them the long term. to ensure that they keep to the Conservative line, we The Secretary of State has not expressed the hatred would get a much more rational response from this for Ofgem that some of those on my Front Bench have Liberal Democrat Secretary of State? done. I believe that it has got worse, rather than better, over the past two years, despite the discussions that the John Robertson: When more than one Department is Select Committee and others have had with it. It has involved in this place we always have a problems—it never worked quickly. Some might say that that is a does not seem to matter what is done. If we involve a good thing, because if it worked quickly, it might make Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills mistakes. They would prefer that it took its time, in and a Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, order to ensure that it did the right thing. However, they are going to have their own drivers, which are not 913 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 914 always the same. A Minister put in place to cover both Many colleagues are anxious to speak, so I wish to Departments has a hard job, because it cannot be easy make just a few brief points about the price freeze and dealing with the Secretary of State for Energy and the Competition and Markets Authority reference. However, Climate Change, let alone the other one. So good luck I want to begin with a plea for honesty in the debate to the right hon. Member for Sevenoaks—we will see about energy prices. No politician, whatever party they where he goes. We certainly need to look at how energy belong to, can control energy costs, because the biggest is governed, and it should not be done across Departments. component in an energy bill, be it for gas or electricity, One Department should be dealing with it, although it is the international wholesale price of gas, which is could be done by a bigger Department. completely outside the control of this Government, I have no objection to companies making profits, but past Governments and future Governments. It is simply profits have gone up by £3.3 billion since 2010. The dishonest—it is not playing fair with the public—to Secretary of State talked about what happened in 2009, pretend that a new Government could wave a magic 2006 and 2007, but he never said anything about what wand and stop prices from going up. If global demand happened after that. The fact of the matter is that an for gas rises sharply, as the International Energy Agency increase of £3.3 billion since 2010 is a touch excessive. points out is likely to happen because of the expansion Public affairs consultants in the big six say they make of the Asian economies, the international price will go only 2% profit while bragging to their shareholders that up and the tankers that leave Qatar full of liquefied profits have gone up 20 times as much. That deals with natural gas, some of which we want to have here, will be what the hon. Member for Warrington South (David more expensive than they are today. So please let us try Mowat) was saying about the splitting of wholesale and at least to start the debate in an honest way, without retail. Everybody knows that I have spoken about that making promises about energy bills that cannot possibly for a number of years. I believe that they should be split, be honoured in the long term. because all we ever get from energy companies is that they have an increase in profits—it could be 4%, 5% or Fiona O’Donnell: Can the hon. Gentleman explain to 6%—but that it is not enough to help them invest. me and my constituents why SSE is able to announce a price freeze, then? Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Is the hon. Gentleman’s position that the companies should be split into separate Mr Yeo: I am coming on to deal with that specific companies or two separate divisions? I cite, as I have point; if the hon. Lady waits for a moment, I will done before, the position of E.ON, which apparently explain it. First, let me urge everyone to try for a has two separate divisions but has complicated loan bipartisan debate, as a good starting point, in the interests arrangements within them that reduces the profits. We of helping the public to understand the issues better. must have transparency if this is to happen. There is general agreement across all the parties that there are three principal aims of energy policy. The first John Robertson: The hon. Gentleman is right about is security of supply, which is fundamental. I do not that. I am not a business man. I was an engineer, so I think the public would tolerate the kind of cuts that only like to fix things—I do not particularly like to occurred in the 1970s. Modern life, both domestically break them, although in the case of the Government and in business, depends now on a continuous supply of that is perhaps something else I would like to do. What electricity. The second aim is affordability, which is he describes is a problem. When we split these companies much in everyone’s minds right now. The third is reducing up, do we say, “You can have either wholesale or retail, greenhouse gas emissions, which the latest Inter- but you cannot have both”? Or do we say to a large governmental Panel on Climate Change report underlines company, “You have to split, as happened with BT, should have equal priority to the other two. where it was split into wholesale and Openreach”? Do Any proposed energy policy should be measured we say, “You have a choice, you can be one or the other against those three aims, and I am sorry to say that, as but you cannot cross-fertilise and give people loans”? I my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has eloquently do not know whether that is a good idea, but we have a pointed out, the proposed price freeze does not score regulator and a Government to deal with these things. terribly well on those three tests. On security, a price Cleverer people than me will be able to work out what freeze will actively harm Britain’s interests. It will inevitably the best fit for the nation will be. But what I do believe is deter and discourage new investment in capacity, particularly that the people I represent are the ones nobody consults in electricity generation capacity, just at the time when, but they are the same people we want the money from at as is universally accepted, Britain needs huge new the end of the day. investment—£110 billion is a commonly agreed figure for the level of new investment needed in the next few 2.2 pm years. Of course, as we all know, we face a situation over the next two or three years where margins of spare Mr Tim Yeo (South Suffolk) (Con): I draw the House’s capacity will be at historically low levels. A very severe attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ winter in this country and in north-western Europe Financial Interests. could mean that we face a risk—not a huge risk—of a It is pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow black-out. North West (John Robertson), a valued member of my The danger that the price freeze will discourage new Select Committee who consistently shows a great and investment has already been shown by some of the real passion for helping those who suffer from fuel reactions. My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington poverty—I guess more of his constituents than mine are South (David Mowat) referred to Centrica. It is all very in that position, but it is also an issue in parts of South well for Sam Laidlaw to say that, in the event of vertical Suffolk. integration coming to an end, Centrica would stop 915 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 916

[Mr Yeo] the last Labour Prime Minister. When he was Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1997, he took the world by surprise investment, but the truth is that in the UK it has already a weekend after the election by announcing the formation stopped investing. [Laughter.] It pulled out of a nuclear of the Monetary Policy Committee at the Bank of consortium last year. The company is investing heavily England and transferring the power to control interest in other countries—in markets where it can see better rates away from Ministers and the Treasury to an returns than at home. This should not be a cause for independent committee. An Opposition who were really laughter by the Opposition; it is very serious, because concerned about consumer prices would have said, “We one of our biggest energy companies is deciding that have this brilliant idea, but it can only work if we don’t Britain is no longer a market in which it wishes to say anything about it until we are in a position to participate. implement it.”

David Mowat: My hon. Friend’s observation is pertinent. Dr Whitehead: Is the hon. Gentleman saying that Was he as concerned as I was when SSE announced its there should be a price freeze, but that we should not freeze two weeks ago and simultaneously pulled out of tell anyone about it until we introduce it? Or is he saying three of the four offshore wind farms in which it was that we should let some people know, but not others, so involved? that it will work, or that there should not be a price freeze? Mr Yeo: My hon. Friend is right in what he says. I was going to deal with that point in response to the hon. Mr Yeo: I am saying that I am not in favour of a price Member for East Lothian (Fiona O’Donnell), but I will freeze, but a price freeze that is signalled 18 months in bring it forward. One of the other damaging effects of a advance is clearly a cynical electoral manoeuvre and proposed price freeze is shown exactly by SSE’s actions has nothing to do with a responsible approach to trying in its voluntary price freeze—it introduced that having to reduce consumer prices. I am not in favour of the raised its prices to a level it thought would be acceptable freeze, but I am even less in favour of playing politics for the next two years. It actually brought forward a with energy bills in the way, I fear, that the Leader of price increase, at the expense of consumers, in order to the Opposition did by saying, “Okay, let’s have this be able to announce this headline-grabbing freeze, and price freeze, but obviously we can’t implement it until at the same time, as my hon. Friend mentioned, it the middle of 2015.” announced that it was pulling out of three very substantial low-carbon investments. The freeze that SSE announced On the third test of cutting greenhouse gas emissions, had two directly damaging effects. a price freeze is at best neutral. I am afraid that I have to conclude that the Opposition’s proposal for a price Albert Owen: The hon. Gentleman is making an freeze has the damaging effects of cutting investment, interesting observation. He is saying that a Government increasing the risk of the lights going out, and raising price freeze may deter investment in the future, but he prices and consumer bills faster than otherwise would slightly contradicts himself by saying that it is already happen, at the same time as doing nothing to reduce being deterred—I agree with him on that. Tellingly, the emissions. chief executive officer of Centrica said he believed that One final consequence of the proposal, which has a long review of energy markets would also cause been pointed out so I will not labour it, is the effect it disinvestment by companies. Is the hon. Gentleman has on small independent suppliers. Clearly, it is very concerned about that? Does he think the reference and damaging for them. If ever there was a policy designed the whole process could be speeded up so that investment to prop up the dominance of the big six it is the price is not put on hold? freeze proposed by the Opposition. The ability of those smaller companies to survive the losses that a price Mr Yeo: The hon. Gentleman, another valued member freeze could impose on them is inevitably much less of my Select Committee, raises a point that I was just than large international companies. going to come to. The consequences of the delay that Let me turn now to the Competition and Markets will be imposed are themselves damaging in some respects. Authority reference. I believe that that was a belated The second aim of energy policy, which is affordability, recognition by Ofgem of the market failure in the is also harmed. As I have pointed out, if companies energy industry, which is evident in a number of aspects, believe that prices will be frozen in May 2015, they will and of the risks that are, at the very least, inherent in inevitably seek opportunities to raise their prices in the vertical integration. Ofgem has been asleep on the job intervening period. Announcing a price freeze 20 months for the past two or three years. It has not used the in advance has the perverse consequence of raising powers that it already has as effectively as it should. prices for consumers during that 20-month stretch faster Indeed, it commissioned BDO the accountants to make than they would otherwise have risen. a number of recommendations, which it then proceeded The Leader of the Opposition, who certainly grabbed to ignore once they had been announced. the headlines in his party conference speech last September, did not, I am afraid, do a great deal more than that. It is Fiona O’Donnell: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman not a serious policy to announce a price freeze 20 months for giving way; he is being very generous. Given that he in advance. If this were an Opposition who were genuinely feels that Ofgem has not been doing its job properly for concerned about keeping consumer prices down, they some time, does he regret the fact that when his Committee would not announce the freeze until the day after they asked the Secretary of State’s predecessor to hold an took office. There is an honourable and admirable inquiry into the market in November 2011, the Government precedent for that sort of approach, which was taken by did not take action then? 917 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 918

Mr Yeo: No, I do not regret that at all. My concern 2.17 pm about Ofgem is that it has very considerable powers that Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): It is a it is failing to use. If it were more effective in carrying pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South Suffolk out its functions, some of the present crisis would at (Mr Yeo), the Chair of the Energy and Climate Change least have been mitigated. The downside of the reference Committee. He makes a number of points in his is that it may provide companies with a further reason contribution, not all of which support what the Secretary to delay investment decisions for the period of the of State was saying this afternoon. reference, which, in practice, is likely to last the better part of two years from now. If, as I strongly suspect, the This debate is about ensuring that competition works CMA reference produces the conclusion that vertical better across the board—for those who generate and integration must be addressed, that process itself will supply power, for those who retail power and for what then take more time to implement, which will prolong happens in between. I found curious it that the Secretary the period of uncertainty and lower investment even of State had the air of a querulous member of the further. There is now a case for ending vertical integration. Opposition trying to pick holes in Government policy, Such is the loss of trust in the big six companies that using some fairly obscure devices yet apparently forgetting only by separating generation from retail supply can he is the Government. that trust start to be rebuilt. I acknowledge that there The Government are presiding over a situation, of will be some damaging consequences of vertical integration, which we are all aware, in which competition does not as my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South work well at all. We all understand that that is related to (David Mowat) has already touched on in an earlier the vertical integration of companies that have dealings intervention. In practice, we must grind through the across the board—in both generation and retail—and CMA process. extent to the fact that opportunities to put that right over time have conspicuously been missed. The debate My final point is that I very much regret that Ofgem, this afternoon over what we do about an energy price quite characteristically, has missed an important part of freeze and how that brings in other arrangements, which the target, which is the transmission and distribution secure much better competition and a much better industries. Those industries are, in the case of transmission, functioning market, does not solve the problem of a monopoly, and in the case of distribution, a quasi- world energy prices but goes an enormously long way to monopoly. In the past, they have escaped scrutiny by ensuring that those arrangements can deliver the best Ofgem to an extraordinary extent. As the public do not possible outcome, particularly for customers, in the pay bills directly to either National Grid or its regional context of varying world prices. The question of whether distribution company, very few consumers have ever a price freeze creates a problem for investment seems to heard of them. The truth is that transmission and be rather misplaced, inasmuch as one argument for a distribution costs account for one fifth of the average better framework for investment in the future is that if bill. That is double the proportion accounted for by the the market works better in the first place people will green levies, which have received so much attention in invest in supply and the workings of the market. the past few months. It is not just Centrica that has stopped investing in I am glad to say that my Committee is about to gas power plants. No one is investing in gas power examine transmission and distribution, including the plants in the UK at the moment; 14 planning permissions charges that they make. There is little or no competition are available but only one has been taken up, by an Irish in the distribution sector. The difficulties of getting energy company that has a long-term view of how the connected to the grid and the costs of doing so are a market will work rather than a short-term view of how significant obstacle to many desirable, small-scale projects. it is working. Other plants are being mothballed as we Only this week, I talked to a large investor in solar speak. It is not that the market is working well at the power who told me that getting new projects connected moment in attracting investment and future arrangements to the grid is now a bigger problem than getting them might harm it; the question is how to maintain the through the planning system. Effective scrutiny of long-term arrangement to secure proper investment. transmission and distribution and the introduction of In some of his rather more obscure defences of the real competition to the distribution sector would do far fact that the Government have done only minor things more to cut energy bills than any artificial externally to secure better competition in the market, the Secretary imposed price freeze. of State mentioned the Ofgem report on wholesale power market liquidity produced a little while ago. The Instead of freezing prices, let us work for more report does not support the Secretary of State’s claims. competition. The CMA reference is not an ideal outcome All it says on the market making obligation is that if the because of the length of time it will take to complete, market has and its scope should be widened. Let us at least try to “robust price information…available…along the curve, the market make it work and serve the aims of energy policy will be functioning sufficiently well to support competition.” instead of obstructing them, as a Government-imposed It does not say that along the curve most of the trading price freeze would do. is between energy companies, not on the market, and that reforming the day-ahead market does not make any difference. Claims that a pool is only about the Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. day-ahead market are also rather misplaced, in that a The House will be aware that there are more Members functioning pool also deals with issues along the curve. who wish to speak than there is time allowed in this The problem of independent companies having access debate if everyone takes a long time. I am therefore to the markets is therefore substantially ameliorated by obliged to impose a time limit on Back-Bench speeches the existence of the pool, because it gives them access to of six minutes. the market that they do not have at the moment. 919 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 920

[Dr Alan Whitehead] not working brilliantly. We need to make switching easier and tariffs simpler. The industry has been slow on The Secretary of State says that the Government that and perhaps Ofgem has, too. We need to go further. made some competition changes in the Energy Act The second part of the Government’s plan is that we 2013: they made only one, which he mentioned and must be careful about how we apply green charges and which was a result of an amendment that I tabled, by green levies to bills. We need to be circumspect. Occasionally, creating an offtaker of last resort. That was it—that was that means doing what we did recently with the renewables the one thing in the Energy Act that concerned obligation certificates and what we did two or three competition—and now, as a result of going for an years ago with solar power levies. We will come back to auction contract for difference market for established that point. players rather than an administrative market, they have destroyed the effect of that. The third element of what we are trying to achieve concerns the need for more new entrants. Everybody The aim is to get competition working better across knows that new entrants give competition. We have the board. Things are better for investment in the long heard that about nine or so are coming in now and we term as a result, and that is the way in which we should need to encourage them. consider this issue for the future. I suggest therefore that the motion, which says exactly that, is one that the How does that plan contrast with the Opposition’s House should embrace, because that is what the markets policies? As we have heard, the centrepiece is the price need to work better for customers and investors— freeze. I thought that the Chairman of the Select Committee made a good point about how the freeze will impact on Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. the various components of decarbonisation and security. I also thought that the Secretary of State made some good points about how the freeze would work in action 2.23 pm as regards tariff levels as well as to which tariffs it would apply and for how long. David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Everybody Secondly, the Opposition do something every time we in this House is concerned about fuel poverty on behalf vote on how quickly to apply green levies and on what is of our constituents. It is a big issue and it matters. We appropriate. For example, two or three years ago we are also concerned about the 900,000 people in our reduced the tariffs on solar from about six times grid country who work in energy-intensive industries, many parity to three or four times grid parity—subsequent to of them in the north-west and the north-east. We need that reduction the solar industry has continued to expand to get our bills lower. at a huge rate—and Labour voted against that. Even There is a second issue that we should talk about, three months ago, Labour voted for a Lords amendment which was touched on by the Chairman of the Select to the Energy Bill to accelerate the rate at which coal Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for South power stations would be switched off. Today is an Suffolk (Mr Yeo). Uniquely in our country we have to epiphanic day for that policy; some Labour Members replace 25% of our generating capacity by the end of might want to reflect on that. Those are extraordinary this decade and I contend that the way in which we actions of unilateral damage to what we are doing in address the first question will influence how effective we this country, a country that has lower carbon emissions are in addressing the second. If we do not address the than the EU average. To act in that way while talking second properly, there will be blackouts—they might about fuel poverty in the way the Opposition do is not not happen in this decade, but they will happen. consistent. I, like everybody, welcome the referral. Let me make The final point about the Opposition’s energy policy a couple of points for completeness. The DECC website concerns their tendency, which, in fairness, we have not today gives an analysis of gas prices across Europe in heard today, to refer to the directors of the big six using table 5.9.1. The UK is the fourth cheapest out of the 15 phrases such as “operating a cartel”, “price fixing” and that use the gas balancing hub in Europe. If that is a “dodgy deals”. Those are criminal activities and if manifestation of a cartel in action, it is not a very good evidence of such things exists it should be laid before cartel. To be clear, that excludes taxes rather than the competition authorities and people should go to including them. We are the fourth cheapest out of the prison. In fairness, we did not hear that today from the 15 according to the DECC website and the EU energy shadow Secretary of State or Labour Back Benchers, portal, so that suggests a pretty mediocre cartel. but we have in the past. If the Labour party wishes to be We have heard a lot about the concentration of the the custodian of the £110 billion process by which we industry in this country, with the big six representing replace energy in this country over the next decade, its 95% or 96% of it. Arguably that is concentrated, but it members must ask whether such language is appropriate. is much less concentrated than any other gas or electricity I think we have a significant problem with the energy market in Europe with the possible exception of that in gap in this country. Arguably, we have a significant Austria. I will just say, as the competition authorities problem under the Government’s policies and the price are considering the matter, that Germany has two gas freeze will make it worse. In the last two years we have and three electricity companies and France and Italy closed or mothballed Oldbury, Wylfa I, Kingsnorth, have similar numbers. Grain, Cockenzie, Didcot, Fawley, Teesside and Keadby, We are going ahead with the process and that is right, but we have not seen the investment to replace them. We as anything we can do to bring prices down is right. have the SSE announcement and we are building very Parties on both sides of the House have a three-part little. As a consequence there is a predicted 2% energy plan to achieve that. The Government believe in competition margin three years from now. That means that we will working as well as it can, and there are examples of it be mothballing— 921 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 922

Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. of that regulator? If it is the intention to keep down prices, will it have the power to impose price caps or profit caps? Or as SSE put it in its more gentle terms “Notwithstanding the proposal for a 20-month price freeze, the 2.30 pm consultation does not appear to have a clear commitment or a sustainable solution to reduce costs of electricity and gas”. Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): Things are certainly The document talks about tackling the vertical integration beginning to move fast in the energy market with this of the companies. We all seem to assume that the CMA week’s reference to the Competition and Markets Authority will tackle vertical integration, but hon. Members should and the announcement of Scottish and Southern Energy’s look at what it says about that on page 14. It also talks price freeze. The price freeze is welcome, but it is worth about some of the benefits of vertical integration. Given noting that it is not quite what it seems as it applies only the history of the Office of Fair Trading investigation to the standard tariff charged by the company, and into companies and what it says itself, we cannot take it anyone who looks at the website will see that the company for granted that it will tackle vertical integration. In an still has many different tariffs. intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow However, the two events do, I suppose, allow both North West (John Robertson) I asked exactly what the sides to claim some success. This afternoon the Government terms of the ring-fencing will be. That will be important. have claimed that competition works, while the Labour Other items in the document are old favourites, such party points to its idea of a price freeze, and of course as simplifying tariffs to encourage switching. But the the two-year investigation has the added benefit of elephant in the room is how we continue to encourage kicking difficult decisions to the other side of the general the much-needed investment in our energy infrastructure. election. What it does not do is take action to deal with When SSE announced its price freeze, it also announced the huge contradiction that sits at the heart of energy that there would be 500 job losses and that it was policy. We all agree that we want our constituents to get pulling out of several renewable developments, which relief from high energy bills, but we also want the seems fairly clear evidence that those of us who did massive investment that is required to meet our future question whether a price freeze would come at the energy needs, and to decarbonise the electricity supply. cost— In the very week when the IPCC issued a very alarming new report on the current impact and probable future Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): impact of climate change, these are issues that cannot My hon. Friend will know that SSE is based in my simply be swept aside as we struggle over how we get constituency and there is great concern among the relief from higher energy bills for our constituents. The Perth staff about exactly what will happen. With the argument about how we got to the position of the big advantages that we see from the press release there are six energy companies will not take us very far. It is also consequences. I am sure that my hon. Friend will undoubtedly true that the privatised companies, at least address those. initially, did not take adequate action to deal with future energy security, but like all newly privatised Mr Weir: MyhFiscorrect. As I was just saying, the concerns set about making sure that they were attractive price freeze does come at the cost of much-needed to investors and maintained a high share price. This future investment and the jobs that it could create. It offers one explanation for why most were quickly swallowed does seem to me that the CMA investigation will mean up by multinational energy companies and the big six that there will be a slow-down in investment over at came into being, with only SSE and Centrica still being least the next two years while companies wait to see independent UK-based companies. what will happen and how they will be affected by its I have looked at the Labour party document ″Powering conclusions. Britain: One Nation Labour’s plans to reset the energy ″ market . It is long on analysis, but I have some queries Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): I would accept about how it will work. A price freeze is a headline idea, the hon. Gentleman’s point if we had seen investment but so far there have been no real ideas about what will anyway, but we have not. For years and years, we have happen thereafter, and whether it would actually do not seen the level of investment that we need. To say much good. The price freeze would be temporary. It that it is the price freeze that is stopping it is ludicrous. would do nothing to deal with the huge inequalities that currently exist within the energy system; it would simply Mr Weir: The hon. Gentleman clearly is not listening. freeze these in place. For example, those who are on an I said it would make the situation worse. I fully appreciate expensive tariff or on higher tariff pre-payment meters that we need this investment. It is not happening sufficiently would still continue to pay more than those on direct now, but it will get worse under this. The hon. Gentleman debit payments. Surely some action should be taken on should perhaps listen a little more closely. Effectively these issues, which we have debated several times in this there will be a slow down in investment whatever happens place. now, and that could be disastrous since it is only by SSE, in its response to Labour’s consultation, said: investment in new renewable energy that we can break “the proposals would not significantly reduce energy prices or away from the dependence on carbon-emitting generation provide energy investors with the long- term certainty they require and bring down bills permanently in the long run. ″ to invest in the energy infrastructure consumers depend upon . But if we are to have an investigation, it should look It further makes a point that I have often asked: what at the whole of the energy industry and in particular the happens at the end of the freeze? The executive summary very costly subsidies that are being provided for new of the document talks about creating a tough new nuclear. The deal announced for Hinkley C is almost regulator to replace Ofgem, but what will be the powers double the current wholesale energy price, and incidentally, 923 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 924

[Mr Weir] Opposition try to frame the debate as one in which the big six’s defenders and apologists are against the public I understand, very much higher than prices agreed by interest. In fact, we must all be on the side of the EDF for similar stations overseas. It will cost the taxpayer consumer against whatever stands in the way. The motion an eye-watering sum of money and be guaranteed for at pits supporters of a rational, transparent competition least 35 years. Indeed, the cost of that station alone will policy framework against those who advocate arbitrary be more than four times the total amount paid out in intervention that is politically motivated. renewable obligations for the first 10 years of its existence. If more stations are built, we can assume that developers In this country we do not, or should not, mix competition will be seeking the same sort of deal, and Hinkley will policy and politics. That is a dangerous road that leads become the benchmark of how nuclear developers can inexorably to political preferment for other sectors, soak the taxpayer. Perhaps this is an area that could be with all the inequity and inefficiency that would bring, improved by more ‘transparency’ and ‘accountability’ and indeed the explosion of lobbying we would all look as sought in the motion. All this, despite the fact that forward to. Our competition policy system mixes rules-based the similar stations being built in Finland and France and discretionary approaches, but with a bias correctly are many years behind target and vastly over budget. towards the rules-based approach. We set up a system Surely in any investigation into the market this should and then set experts on the problem to work out what have been a major factor, yet there is simply no mention needs to be done. To say that a referral proves that the of it in the documents issued with the announcement of system is broken, as the right hon. Member for Don the review. Valley (Caroline Flint) has done, is to fly directly in the face of the principles that underpin the system and give We believe that if we are to reduce and retain lower investors confidence. For politicians to decide to impose energy bills, we need to move to a renewable future and a price freeze without a transparent investigation would make that investment now. We believe that we need to undermine much of the British economy, and the effects remove the cost of the energy company obligation and would be felt far beyond the energy sector. warm home discount from energy bills and put it into general taxation, but maintain the level of spend. It is There are big concerns about competition in the interesting to note that although the UK Government sector, and they are legitimate. We know from have removed those to some extent, that is a temporary the annual assessment of competition, which shows the measure for a couple of years, not a long-term measure. situation in sharp relief, that there is a largely settled Doing this would be much fairer and allow a much geographical pattern, low shares of new entrants, relatively more targeted approach to dealing with these issues. It low consumer engagement, in part because of the is undeniably true that there is now so much distrust of complexity of the market, and increased profits that the energy companies that even a good deal from them appear not to be directly reflected in increases in efficiency. is now looked at with suspicion and rejected out of There is the question of entry barriers and the extent hand by many consumers. to which vertical integration makes that situation worse. The investigation by the CMA may well finally get It has been suggested that there might be some tacit some agreement on what is happening in the energy co-ordination in the market. In this country, running a market and allow us a way forward. I could agree with cartel is somewhere between extremely difficult and most of the Opposition motion, but I do have difficulty impossible. However, as Galbraith once said, there are a with the last part which seems to have come to a number of habitable halfway houses in which oligopoly conclusion about the investigation before it has taken situations can pertain, and it is very important to guard place. Given that previous investigations by the OFT against those. have decided that the market was working, I am not entirely sure that we can rely on this current one coming The market appears to be somewhat mired, and it to the conclusion that the market is broken, as the certainly lacks public confidence, so it is right that the motion puts it, although most of us would agree that CMA should investigate, but it would be wrong to there are indeed serious problems with it. It will be accompany that investigation with a Government-imposed interesting to see the conclusions that it comes to. price freeze. Why? First, there is of course the theoretical Clearly there must be changes in our energy industry, possibility that costs will come down. It is wishful and the sooner the better. thinking for the Opposition to say that a freeze will stop prices going up but whenever costs come down there Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. will be more players in the market. Of course there will With all due respect to the hon. Member who has just not be. What incentive would they have? Secondly, in delivered his speech, I should point out to the House the event of cost pressures, a freeze would hurt small that three hon. Members in a row have spoken past the firms most, partly because they have the smallest reserves point at which they should have stopped. There are for absorbing cost increases, less ability to forward-buy clocks in the Chamber, and when they show zero, it and higher percentage marketing costs as they try to means it is time to stop speaking. attract more customers. Thirdly, firms inevitably find ways around price freezes. 2.39 pm We do not know what they will be, but companies are Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con): This is an smart and usually find a way to do it. They can nip in extremely serious issue that goes to the heart of the with a price increase before a freeze is imposed, they can competitiveness of British businesses, large and small, cut investment, as has been mentioned a number of and the costs borne by hard-pressed households, especially times, and—this has not yet been discussed—they can the most vulnerable in our society. It therefore deserves discriminate against less profitable customers. If a ceiling proper, sober treatment, not naked populism. The is put on the price, there will still be plenty of customers 925 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 926 who are profitable at that price, but there will be others That is the way we do things in this country to get to the who are not, and companies might decide to reject bottom of it. It would be quite wrong to second-guess those customers. the outcome of that with a populist price freeze.

Albert Owen: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is 2.47 pm very genuine, but his Government introduced legislation— the Energy Act 2013—to hold back prices and interfere Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): The elephant in in the price mechanism. If what he describes would the room in this debate is the future of shale gas. The happen under a freeze, why would it not happen under Secretary of State told me that it would make no the legislation that was introduced to hold prices down? difference. However, the likelihood is that we will repeat the experience of America when it starts exporting vast quantities of shale gas. We will not see a price freeze; we Damian Hinds: The key thing that underpins British will see a price collapse. America has been jerked out of competition policy, and indeed the approach in this its economic crisis by abundant cheap energy becoming market, is encouraging competition without setting prices. available for industry, which has brought prices down It is a system that tends to work, and when it does not and made it far more competitive. That will happen we have competition policy authorities to investigate here. There is no purpose in closing our minds and and determine how the system needs to be put right. pretending that it will not, because it will affect the That is the correct way to do it. whole market. Of course, there is another side to the story. The The Chair of the Select Committee talked about the margin enjoyed by the big six on domestic energy in reluctance of British investors to invest in Hinkley 2012 was 4.3%. The big question is whether supernormal Point, but what is British about Hinkley Point? Did profit is being generated elsewhere in those companies, Members read the French newspapers when the deal particularly on the generation side. My hon. Friend the was announced? They regarded it as the deal of the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) mentioned century. It will create 10,000 jobs—not at Hinckley the international comparisons, which I think are worth Point, but in France. It is an extraordinary deal. For bearing in mind. It is also worth remembering that high Britain, it is the rip-off of the century. We have agreed prices have not just happened in this country. Prices did to buy energy—this is hard to believe—at £92 per not just start rising after May 2010. According to the megawatt-hour, which is twice the going rate at present, Office for National Statistics, in 2002, 2003 and 2004 and that is the minimum rate. We have indexed linked the average household energy bill was £70 a month, but that price and guaranteed it for 35 years. We do not by 2009 it had risen to £108 a month, a rise of more know what energy prices will be in 35 months. than 50%. They then went down slightly after 2009-10. The chief executive of Ineos, a man who is a great The biggest factor in those price increases, including importer of energy and will be importing shale gas into when the Labour party was in government, was wholesale Grangemouth, said that British companies would not energy prices, including the world oil price and declining go anywhere near that price. At present he is buying domestic gas supplies. energy from the same company, EDF in France, at Does that mean all is well and we should not worry? £37 per megawatt-hour. That is the going rate. For Of course it does not. We want markets to operate well reasons that are beyond us—inertia, or because they are and competitively, and there are signs that this market tied to a nuclear future—we have gone into this terrible might not be doing so. It is perfectly possible to have deal. People will look back, possibly when you and I are markets with high levels of concentration that still still in the House, Madam Deputy Speaker, at this operate competitively, so long as they are contestable. terrible deal that has been struck. It is irrational. Confectionery, detergents and grocery retail are all markets We are buying a European pressurised water reactor. with very high C5 ratios, but the market can still work if They have been around for a little while, but they have it is contestable, if products are clearly comparable and not yet produced enough electricity to power a bicycle if switching between them is easy. It is when those last lamp. The first one was in Finland. According to the two points do not pertain, as with banks and the energy deal, it was going to start generating electricity in 2009. sector, that worries arise. The original cost was ¤3 billion—it is now reckoned to It is right to try to bring in more competitors, and I be ¤8.5 billion—and it is not expected to be generating think that what the Government have done in that until 2019, 10 years late. The other one is Flamanville. It regard has been encouraging. I encourage them to do had a very similar original cost and is now also expected more. We also need more trusted brand names to enter to cost nearly three times that—¤8.5 billion. It is not the market, rather than just companies that nobody has expected to be completed for four years after the year heard of. We need to learn from companies such as when it was supposed to be generating electricity, which Sainsbury’s and Marks & Spencer what they believe has was last year. The right hon. Member for Bermondsey held them back. We can go further on tariff simplification, and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) used to start his as we are only part of the way through that process. The speeches by announcing that no nuclear power station complexity had become comic. It will now be under in the world has ever been built on time or on budget. much greater control, but we could go further. We need Of course, the Liberal Democrats are now singing from to ensure that annual energy statements are clear, consistent a different hymn sheet because they have a Lib Dem and prominent and that they are machine readable so Secretary of State. that comparison sites can read them. We are waltzing into a future that is not well informed Overall, we know that there are problems with the by science but based on forecasts. In 2007, the Labour market. Given the low levels of public confidence, it is Government’s policy was that nuclear power was an right that the CMA will have a full-blown investigation. economically unattractive proposition. David King went 927 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 928

[Paul Flynn] 2.54 pm along to Downing street, showed his slide show, and Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con): In this debate about said that there would be a gap in energy in a few years’ an energy price freeze we have heard some interesting time. The Labour Government changed their policy. contributions from colleagues on both sides of the Then we heard that the lives of the AGRs—advanced House. I understand that the Opposition’s position, in gas-cooled reactors—were to be extended, and the fuel effect, is to assume that the price freeze is in place and gap did not occur. then think about what they are going to do next in the process. I have not heard about the sorts of things they I suggest to the Government that we do not build on would like to see in future. If the House will allow me, a system that has always proved expensive and has I would rather discuss the future than the present. never delivered on its promised targets, but go into the areas of marine power whereby we can have an abundance It is often said that the energy market involves a of electricity from the great cliffs of water that flow trilemma, but I tend to disagree with that principle around our shores 24 hours a day. An example of that is because it implies that all the elements are equally La Rance in France. It has been there for nearly 50 years, important. For me, the cost of energy is key. Of course, it paid for all its capital costs decades ago, and it is security and decarbonisation matter, but ultimately energy producing the cheapest electricity in the world. Around is directly linked to GDP growth; we need only to look our coast, particularly in the Severn estuary but also in across the Atlantic to see evidence of that. We must other places, there is huge potential for using this great, concentrate on cost as our primary target. There is also wasted resource that is natural, immensely powerful, an argument, which I will make, about the limits of freely available to us, and benign to the environment. markets. The privatisation of the Central Electricity Sadly, however, we go on thinking along tram lines. I Generating Board in the 1980s was welcome, and it believe we will find that the EU decides that the £17.5 billion brought about an increase in efficiency, but I wonder subsidy we intend to pay for Hinkley Point—for one whether we are all missing a trick in not realising that power station—is against European rules because such there comes a point when the market can deliver no subsidies are not allowed. My nightmare is that if we further gain and we might want to consider a different have a true— model, particularly in the supply and distribution of electricity and gas. As I say, the primary concern must be the cost of David Mowat: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that energy. When I stood for election to the DECC Committee under the energy market reforms the contract for difference in 2010, more than one colleague came up to me somewhat price for tidal power is four times that paid for nuclear? surprised that I was going for such a “lowly” Select Committee and asking why was I not going for something Paul Flynn: I am aware of the high costs that are put interesting like health or education. I pointed out to in for all renewables, but at least renewables provide a each and every one of them that I thought energy was power source for the future that is free, and has other a key challenge for this Government, and indeed benefits. The site at Hinkley Point is based on an Governments to come, alongside ageing. As a doctor, I estuary where there was a tsunami a while ago. could talk all day about the ramifications of an ageing population, but I did not know that much about energy and the energy market. We are now approaching the Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): I am sure the hon. Gentleman fourth anniversary of our joining these Select Committees, is aware that the intention is that the price of tidal and in those four years I have concluded that the power will be far lower than nuclear after we have complexities of the energy market in this country are perhaps five or six tidal lagoons in place. quite remarkable. Although I think it is going too far to call it a cartel, certainly the public’s view is one of a sense of things acting in concert. An investigation into Paul Flynn: As I say, rather than looking into the this market is long overdue. crystal ball, we can look back at what has happened at La Rance, which produces the cheapest power in the The motion mentions an increase in competition, but world. It was opened in 1966 but the turbines are still in I wonder where that would take us. An analysis of the pristine condition. The dredging on the River Parrett, economic profits of the energy companies shows that which the hon. Lady will know about, often increases they are actually making losses. Centrica made an economic flooding, but if we created a system whereby we used loss of £345 million in 2013. Yet we are expecting these that water by allowing whatever is fitted there to generate companies to invest and bring private investors into the energy, we would have a great improvement in flood market. We must reflect on that. Although it makes defences, as at La Rance. very easy headlines to say that these companies are making massive profits, in fact they are not. Any profits The Government’s mind seems to be closed to the that they make tend to be in their generation arms, not possibilities of marine power. There are other ways of in their retail arms. using it; it is not necessary to build a brick wall across an estuary. Movable turbines can be put in or wave power can be used—there is a whole range of possibilities. Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): On the increased Yet there is no kind of push towards that. There is no competition in the market that we would all like to see, vested interest saying, “This is what our future should does my hon. Friend agree that the suggestion that be.” Marine power is the great neglected source that we Government arbitrarily step into a marketplace and continue to neglect at our peril. It provides energy that apply a blanket freeze is likely to scare off investors and is benign, does not threaten the environment, and will be a significant brake on the very competition that we be there eternally. want to promote? 929 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 930

Dr Lee: Of course. If my hon. Friend will forgive me, California has done it so I do not see why we cannot. It many people have already made the case for how simplistic requires concentration purely on that one issue. We and foolish an energy price freeze would be, and I did need to get away from the rather daft level of subsidy not want to add to that, because I thought it would be for offshore wind, for example. There is some argument presumed that I would agree. My hon. Friend smiles. for state expenditure on energy security in baseload We are about to carry out an investigation into the generation, and we perhaps need to be more transparent market, and perhaps we need to start to think about about how we fund nuclear energy, and indeed—to how we might restructure our energy sector in a more refer to the contribution of the hon. Member for Newport profound way. West—marine energy projects such as that on the Severn. Before I come to that, I want to mention security. My main point is that the solution is not to have yet Currently, about 70% of our oil and gas comes from further energy companies in the market. I believe that Norway; that relationship is key. Centrica has a long-term the retail and distribution networks should be owned by contract with the Qataris, worth in excess of £4 billion, co-operatives. We only have to look at New York and which is important. Contrary to the hon. Member for Pennsylvania to see the benefits, in terms of the lower Newport West (Paul Flynn), I am a strong supporter of costs to the consumer and the ability to take a longer-term the nuclear industry, but I have some issues—I have view about investment in infrastructure so that if there gone on public record about this—because a strategy is poor weather, the distribution network does not go on the nuclear industry is required. down. It might be counterintuitive for a Government I am somewhat concerned that we have had to go Member to talk about co-operatives—that may be politically abroad for the technology. We have had to do so because attractive—but ultimately there are limits to markets the Opposition sold all the technology during the previous and I think we are approaching the limit in the energy Parliament. Westinghouse was sold, as was British sector. Energy—we could have made hay about that, but never mind. I am concerned that we have to go abroad for Several hon. Members rose— technology that arguably is not the cheapest and that, as the hon. Member for Newport West said, has not been Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. In delivered on time anywhere on the face of the earth. We order to accommodate the remaining Members who need a strategy as a country. For example, why not have wish to speak before the wind-ups commence, I am small reactors across the country, built by Rolls-Royce? reducing the time limit to five minutes, with immediate That is just a suggestion. effect. Paul Flynn: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that Centrica made a considered and serious decision when 3.3 pm it abandoned the £200 million it had already invested in Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): It is a pleasure Hinkley Point? That meant that the serious investors to follow the hon. Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee), who had deserted, and so we now have to rely on cheap I thought made an illuminating speech. It was illuminating Chinese money, of which is there is an abundance. What because at no point during his speech did I hear him has Hinkley Point got to do with Britain? talk about fuel poverty or about people struggling to pay their fuel bills. My constituents will be disappointed Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): They did by that and I suspect that his will, too. not have control of the asset. Dr Phillip Lee: Will the hon. Lady give way? Dr Lee: As my hon. Friend says, Centrica did not have control of the asset, because it was not allowed to buy British Energy in 2008—a decision made by the Fiona O’Donnell: No—I am on a limit of five minutes. previous Government, and one which I guess the hon. I have not made any interventions in time-limited speeches Gentleman supported. and I am not going to take any, as I have only five minutes. It is time for the Government to concentrate on one thing rather than on a myriad. Whenever the Department It has also been illuminating to see the political of Energy and Climate Change comes before the Select tomfoolery of the SNP today. As the hon. Member for Committee it gives evidence of its lack of fitness for Angus (Mr Weir) stood to speak, suddenly two other purpose in this area. The Select Committee has been, I SNP Members came scurrying into the Chamber to think, deeply frustrated by the Department’s performances give the right impression of SNP support for action on on many occasions. We should concentrate on one fuel poverty, and then scurried out, having made one thing, which is energy efficiency. Fatih Birol was in front intervention. of the Select Committee the other day—he edits the “World Energy Outlook”. The conclusion of that weighty Dr Phillip Lee: On a point of order, Madam Deputy tome is that this country should concentrate on energy Speaker. The hon. Lady has misrepresented my speech. efficiency. We should stop subsidising energy generation I talked about cost as the primary target of any energy and let the market deal with that. policy, which refers to the fact that I recognise that We should concentrate on energy efficiency because customers are paying increased bills. the reality is that that is all we can do. Our stocks of gas are declining—they may be mitigated somewhat by Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): With respect, shale, but let us not hold our breath or think it will be a that is not a point of order but a matter of debate. significant bounty. This country needs to be able to However, the hon. Gentleman has now got his point on deliver economic growth in the future with less energy. the record. 931 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 932

Fiona O’Donnell: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker; We need leadership, not people sitting around tables as you said, the hon. Member for Bracknell has his and talking, or taking too long to put Bills through point on the record. It certainly did not seem to me—it Parliament or to act on Ofgem. The energy consumers will not to his constituents, either, I think—that fuel in my constituency want action and leadership from the poverty was the main driver of his contribution, but it is Government now. They will get that from Labour in the main driver of the motion before the House. 2015. I commend the motion to the House. To return to the SNP, however, I thought that Government Members must have learned to throw their 3.9 pm voices, because when the hon. Member for Angus spoke it was like hearing a Tory speak. That is more and more Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): I was going to give a what we are hearing from the SNP these days—there comprehensive solution to the energy problems but, was more time spent bashing Labour’s attempts to do given that the time limit has gone down from six to five something about fuel poverty than there was spent minutes, I hope the House will forgive me if I do not say looking at the inaction of the Government. All he anything about how we can sort out those problems. seemed to have to say to the people of Scotland was This is, of course, an important debate, because the that the SNP would take less money from the energy issue impacts on so many people: energy bills are among companies in the hope that they in turn would take less the largest things they have to pay. I would point out, from the consumer. There was not much hope for the however, that since the industry was privatised, energy fuel-poor in Scotland from him today. bills have generally been lower than in most other We also heard from the hon. Member for Warrington countries in Europe. However, privatisation did not South (David Mowat), who I know has taken an interest work well in that it inherited quite a lot of capacity to in Scotland in the past, and has served on the Scottish generate and we did not get the sort of investment we Affairs Committee. He took an interest in my constituency should have. That should have been addressed by former today, referring to the closure of Cockenzie power Governments. station. The hon. Member for South Suffolk (Mr Yeo) also spoke about the problem of lack of investment. I If I have a worry, it is more about supply than price. would like both of those hon. Members—at least one of The reason fuel poverty is mentioned is that people them is in the Chamber—to know that Cockenzie power cannot afford to have their heating on, but if it is not station had not been converted to gas because of the possible to generate heat such that people will not be Government’s dithering and delay on connection charges, able to have it on anyway, that will have the same impact which means that Iberdrola is holding back its investment. on many of the most vulnerable people, such as the That is hurting my constituency and hurting consumers, elderly, because they will not be able to heat their and responsibility lies firmly with the Government. homes. We really have to sort out the question of supply. Today’s debate has to be seen in the broader context of a cost of living crisis. I know that the Secretary of I am a little frustrated because the Budget mentioned State asked questions of the Opposition Front Benchers reducing tax to incentivise companies to invest and today, and I congratulate my right hon. Friend the increase productivity, but now we are having a debate shadow Secretary of State on giving the House the about energy policy and what seems to be a stalled opportunity to debate this matter today and so allowing investment programme. In his sensible speech, my hon. me to stand up for my constituents. I hope that when Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) the debate is wound up will we get a response as to mentioned some of the plants we are closing but, although whether Ofgem will be required to look at the situation there are planning permissions on the books, people are of many of my constituents, who are trapped in fuel not investing. That means that we have a real problem, poverty because they do not have access to the gas grid, because capacity is reducing and, as we all know, there and so do not benefit from dual-fuel discounts and have is likely to be 4% surplus capacity in 2015. That is very only a limited number of places from which to buy their close to having black-outs. Some say that high-energy supply. There is also the issue of prepayment meters, producers could send their workers home and we could which hits some of the most vulnerable energy consumers, turn off the energy to those plants, but the reality is that particularly those on fixed incomes. if we want the British economy to grow and if we want One sign that this Government’s policies are not jobs and exports, it would be bonkers not to invest in working is the rise in the number of people using food energy supply, because otherwise we will not be able to banks. We are also seeing people having to return food generate the energy we need to generate the economic to food banks because they cannot afford to pay for the wealth we want as a nation. energy to heat food that requires cooking. I have been We need to provide more incentives for people to away for a couple of weeks with the International invest. There seem to be a lot of things preventing them Development Committee, and coming back this week I from investing. Perhaps there is a strong argument for have had a sharp reminder of how the Government are referring the issue to Ofgem to conduct a big review of in absolute denial on so many levels. There was denial the market, but it will slow down investment. I am from the Prime Minister today about the fiasco of the worried about that, because there is going to be a gap sell-off of Royal Mail. We heard denial yesterday from for the next three or four years, and that means that the Treasury Front Benchers, who would not acknowledge there is a very real risk that the lights will go out. If that people will be worse off at the end of this Government. Members think that the politics of high prices are Today we have heard denial from the Secretary of State difficult, they should be aware that the politics of cuts for Energy and Climate Change, who on his own website in energy are severe for any Government who do not is seen supporting the “Mind the Gap” campaign. How keep the lights on. That is my main concern. I want ironic—the gap is between the Government’s rhetoric Government Front Benchers to keep an eye on the issue on fuel poverty and their action on it. and push investment. We need it, because even if nuclear 933 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 934 power, which I welcome, follows on from the European I have issues with the argument that Government Commission review, it will be some years before that 7% intervention would affect potential, much-needed of valuable additional generating capacity will become investment. Contrary to what the Secretary of State available. said, there has not been much new investment; nor have Of course, we are trying to stretch the life of existing there been many final investment decisions, in the past Magnox nuclear stations and the last debate we had on few years. Many previous decisions have continued energy was about trying to keep some of the coal-fired after receiving consent and they are coming on stream stations open. I think it is silly to allow stations to close now, or will be in the near future. Investment has been when there is no guarantee that we can generate the put off by uncertainty, but that uncertainty has not electricity through new investment. That is my principal been caused by the Leader of the Opposition pledging message. an energy freeze. It happened long before that. Those companies complaining that an energy freeze will hit There are other subsidiary issues. Transmitting power them have been pulling investment and decisions out of is very important. All the transmission engineers say the United Kingdom. Centrica is a particularly bad that we are painfully short of people to provide transmission example. cables, and we will need many such cables if we invest in new nuclear power. There is a lot more to be done. I am The Chairman of the Energy and Climate Change sorry I have made only a brief contribution, but I Committee, the hon. Member for South Suffolk (Mr Yeo) emphasise that the supply of energy is very important was right to say that we need to be honest, and we need and could very quickly, if we get this wrong, rise to the to be honest that this did not start with a pledge for an top of the political agenda. energy freeze. Rising prices have become such an issue for our constituents. They are hurting so many households that we need to do something. That is why the Leader of 3.13 pm the Opposition made his pledge and that is why the Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): It is always a pleasure Opposition are suggesting policies. We are talking not to follow the hon. Member for Poole (Mr Syms), who just about a freeze, but about fixing the regulator, which spoke a lot of sense. He was absolutely right to say—I has some powers it does not use and needs more powers will not go over everything he said—that when the to intervene. energy markets were privatised, the splitting up of energy The Government say that they are instructing Ofgem policy was not done in a healthy way. It was done rashly, to do things, but that is just a reaction to what is and many issues such as nuclear waste liability could happening. When the Select Committee conducted inquiries, not be sold off, so the state ended up holding on to the Government said that everything was hunky-dory them. and that switching would resolve the problems. That is The motion is about not just an energy freeze, but a wrong, which is why a responsible Government are reset of a market that has failed. Each and every contributor needed to stand up for consumers and create credibility has said that there have been failures in the market, so it and certainty for energy companies to invest. The market is right that the Government should look at the issue is not perfect and it needs to change. We need stronger and take strong action. They are already intervening: regulations. the Energy Act 2013 was the Prime Minister’s way of Finally, transmission and distribution make up a saying that he wanted to fix prices. That is exactly what quarter of our bills. There is no competition in those Members voted for, so intervention is happening, but it areas. We need some competition or, indeed, a not-for-profit is not helping consumers in the way it should. organisation to enable bills to come down so that our I am certain that every Member wants more transparent consumers can have a fair deal in the future. If this and fair energy prices, efficient regulations and the right Government will not do it, we can at least send a conditions for investment. The energy market is not message today by voting for this motion, and a future working well and we need to improve it. I am the first to Labour Government will do it. admit that, in 13 years, the previous Government should have done more about it. 3.18 pm I listened with interest to the hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), who provided a good theory Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): It is always a of how markets should work, but the practice is very pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ynys Môn different. He talked about energy prices in 2003-04, (Albert Owen), who is a fellow member of the Select but they must be placed alongside today’s context, in Committee on Energy and Climate Change. One of the which people’s wages are frozen and many household disadvantages of speaking at the fag end of any debate incomes are going down, not up, because of food and is that everything that can be said has been said, but, of energy prices. course, not everybody who can say it has said it, and I There are price hikes. The hon. Member for City of am no exception to that rule. Although I will try not to Chester (Stephen Mosley), who is no longer in his place, repeat other contributions overmuch, some points will made an intervention earlier on behalf of the Whips be worth repeating. and said that his constituents were paying £50 less on During the last debate on energy in November, I his energy bills. If that is the case, Chester is the only said that the right hon. Member for Don Valley place in the United Kingdom with such a reduction. (Caroline Flint), the shadow Secretary of State, made a My constituents, who have shown me how their energy characteristically ebullient speech. She conducted herself bills this year compare with last year, are paying between today with no less chutzpah, but I have to say to her £70 and £90 more. That is the reality and that is why we that I think her arguments would have greater resonance should be standing up for consumers in the House across the House and the country if she were prepared of Commons. to recognise that the failures of the past have contributed 935 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 936

[Christopher Pincher] 3.23 pm Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): It in no small measure to the challenges we face now. She is always very fortunate to be called last before the talked about the need to increase competition in the closing speeches, because it concentrates one’s mind energy market, but she refused to acknowledge—indeed, wonderfully. I am not an energy specialist, but I am very she danced around the fact—that the energy market interested in how we make policy in our country. Having was consolidated under Labour, going from 14 major listened to this debate, I know that it is about the supply, energy providers down to just six. She talked about the price and security of energy. I remember hearing a need for greater energy security, so why have we not wonderful group from the Royal Society of Arts, invested in more nuclear stations or in home-grown Tomorrow’s Company, talk about the best kinds of shale gas so that we do not rely so much on international companies being those that really set examples in looking hydrocarbon prices and imported gas, which is increasing after the balance between their employees, shareholders, energy prices for so many of our customers? It is consumers and suppliers, as well as after the community therefore no small surprise that we are greeting her in which they sit. Today’s debate has been about companies current argument for an energy price freeze with a falling short, particularly in terms of consumers and degree of scepticism. [Interruption.] I notice that she is the communities in which they sit. chuntering away from the safety of the Opposition Front Bench. That is probably the best place for her, As politicians, we have been pretty cowardly on energy because she can do less damage to our economy and to for a long time. The fact is that when privatisation was her country sitting there than on the Government Front introduced not enough Conservative Members said strongly Bench. that it was a mix, a muddle and a botch. It was, and we are all paying for that terrible privatisation. In parallel, we are paying for rail privatisation in my region. In both Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): Will my hon. Friend cases, there is absolutely fragmented ownership and a give way? lack of “joined-upness”—somebody owning one bit does not talk to somebody in another bit. It is a mess. If Christopher Pincher: I will not give way because we look seriously at privatisation, we can see that it has I know that the hon. Member for Huddersfield been a disaster for this country. (Mr Sheerman) wants to speak. If we have a price freeze, these will be the facts. It Mr Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con): Will the hon. would encourage providers to hike their prices in Gentleman give way? anticipation of a blanket freeze, which means that our constituents would pay artificially high prices. It would Mr Sheerman: With only four minutes left, I will not drive smaller players out of the marketplace and consolidate give way, as the right hon. Gentleman knows is the case. it even further. That has been said by Dieter Helm, First So often, politicians from all sides have been very Utility—the Leader of the Opposition’s provider of reluctant to take on the big, hard issues. We only have to choice—Adam Scorer of Consumer Futures and Steve look at nuclear power. I have always thought that it was Fitzpatrick of Ovo. It would also drive investment out an option that we should have taken seriously and for of the energy sector, as many hon. Members have said which we should have been building long ago. Even during the debate. The chief executive of E.ON said at a with the six large energy companies, we have ended up meeting of the Select Committee that the cost of capital without the ability to come forward with either the goes up every time the Leader of the Opposition opens finance or the technology to build a nuclear power his mouth and talks about a price freeze. station, and instead have to look to Chinese money and We all accept that about £110 billion has to be spent French technology. What a dreadful situation in an on our energy infrastructure—including our pipes and energy sector that has been driven down to such a weak pylons—over the next 10 years to keep the lights on and status and such low capacity by its botched privatisation. the kettles boiling. Such investment has largely come Of course we need to make big changes. To be really from the big six over the past five years. E.ON has old-fashioned, I would say that we should have a royal invested £7 billion, and Centrica has invested £6 billion. commission on such a matter. I am in favour of the If that spend is extrapolated across the big six over motion, and of the Government’s good decision to refer 10 years, they will invest about £70 billion. If we are to the energy market to the Competition and Markets find the £40 billion extra, we will have to rely on Authority. Will it, however, be only a sticking plaster on investment by small independent players, as well as a real and deeply structural problem in our deeply bigger companies. Otherwise we will have to fall back dysfunctional energy sector? I am afraid that it will be. I on the poor benighted taxpayer to add cash to consumer’s want there to be a royal commission, which could bills or—heaven forfend—to borrow more money, which encompass the whole of the problem, rather than one the shadow Chancellor seems to like to do, in order to bit of it. pay for the infrastructure. We all want efficient regulation. From looking at the We need to get in the investment, and a price freeze present regulator—its strength and teeth, and its capacity will only discourage investment, but we really need to to act and to be bold—I have to say that it has been reduce bills. That is what our customers want. Encouraging woefully lacking in protecting my constituents and people 24-hour switching may cut bills by £140; reducing the up and down this country. To be truly political, that is number of tariffs from 340 to just four can cut bills by part of my deep unease about how this Government in £200; and rolling back the green levies can cut bills by all their decisions—this is one of them—are moving us £50. That will help our hard-pressed constituents—the to a country in which there is a disparity between the hard-pressed consumers—not the gimmick proposed really rich and ordinary people. I do not mean poor by Labour. people, but those mentioned in that wonderful book, 937 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 938

“The Spirit Level”, which argues that healthy societies The hon. Member for South Suffolk will know that and healthy democracies do not have an enormous gap SSE’s decision does not necessarily mean that those between the rich or super-rich and ordinary people. projects will not go ahead, because investment is coming Such a gap is developing in this country, and when we from outside the big six. A number of state-owned look back at this Liberal Democrat/Tory Administration, utilities from other countries, including Norway and it is one reason why we will say that that was the time DONG in Denmark, are filling the investment gap with when our country became deeply divided, with the rich a number of projects. That helps to deal with the people being favoured by this privatisation and the suggestion that is sometimes made by commentators—in Royal Mail privatisation. “Rest in peace” will be the fairness, it has not been made in this debate—that the epitaph of the Administration that has made this country big companies are a prerequisite for the investment that more divided and more unhappy. is required. As he knows, a number of utility companies are over-exposed in their home markets, which is leading 3.28 pm to a pulling back of investment that has nothing to do with the price freeze proposals. Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ Co-op): Not least in the last speech, we have had an The hon. Member for South Suffolk made two other interesting, illuminating and at times passionate debate important points. The first was about the failures of the on the issue—more accurately, the set of issues—that is current regulator and the second was about the ring-fencing high on the agenda of many right hon. and hon. Members and legal separation of the generation and supply arms from across the House. As ever, and we are becoming of the big companies. He is concerned about the impact used to this, the debate has been characterised by some of that. I am sure that he will be aware that when SSE very considered contributions, as well as by what are announced its decision to separate last week, it referred frankly rather desperate attempts to divert the debate to it as a tool to “improve transparency” and a away from fundamental concerns about how this market “reform that is in the clear interests of customers” works or—more accurately—does not work. that would have only marginal cost implications. I believe As my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley that others will reach a similar position in the weeks (Caroline Flint) mentioned, this is the ninth Opposition and months ahead. day debate on aspects of energy policy. During that time, we have seen a remarkable shift from the Government, My hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test with the Secretary of State, who is not in his place, (Dr Whitehead), whom I served alongside on the Public finally seeming to catch up with reality. For the record, I Bill Committee that considered the Energy Act 2013, remind the House that his position has shifted from rightly pointed out that reform to make the market there not being an issue to address, through the answer clear, fair and transparent was almost entirely absent being switching on its own, to a cack-handed attempt to from that legislation. He will recall that he, I and others jump on the back of concerns about the level of profitability tried several times during the course of the Committee in gas via his special adviser in the press a few weeks to move amendments to insert those issues into the Bill. ago. Last week, he eventually accepted that the market I am sure that the Government, on reflection, will regret over which he and his predecessor have presided for the turning their face against those issues. My hon. Friend past four years is not fit for purpose, does not work for also made a point about mandatory open trading, consumers and does not work for the industry, in which which is the best possible way to increase liquidity and there is a crisis of confidence and a deficit of trust. to have an impact on the forward market. Today, we have heard the considered, final evaluation of The hon. Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) the Secretary of State: a thought experiment. If the referred to the number of power plants that have closed vacuous, empty, floundering response that we heard and been mothballed. I am sure that he is aware that from him today does not make him realise that he is some of the mothballing seems to have been done in completely out of touch, nothing will. anticipation of the capacity market. That makes the My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North case for the auctions to happen as soon as possible. West (John Robertson), who has been a constant, dogged The hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir), either presence on the Energy and Climate Change Committee, intentionally or out of genuine ignorance, failed to like many Members in the Chamber today, made a understand the proposals in our Green Paper on market persuasive case, as he often does, about the impact of reform. If he had read properly the document that he policies and market failures on his constituents and claims to have read, he would have seen that it makes a those across the UK who struggle to pay their energy number of proposals to increase transparency in the bills. market, which is required for investment and for consumer The Chairman of the Select Committee, the hon. confidence. Member for South Suffolk (Mr Yeo),referred to investment The hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) opportunities. He was right to point out that the investment suggested that the solution may lie in trusted brands. I record of Centrica has not been good for a number of am sure that he is aware that a number of trusted years. However, he was wrong to link SSE’s decision last brands have been reluctant to enter the market, not week to freeze its prices to its pulling back from investment least because the lack of transparency in the market in offshore wind. I am sure that he will have the opportunity, would damage their reputation. The key is to ensure if he has not had it already, to speak to SSE. It has been that we have transparency for the long term, as we have very clear that its decisions are related to continued proposed. difficulties, including the lack of clarity on the detail of the contracts for difference, and technical and cost My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West challenges with the round 3 offshore projects, in which (Paul Flynn) referred to marine energy and to the it is limiting its involvement. nascent technologies that could have an impact in the 939 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 940

[Tom Greatrex] demonstrate his interest in that by showing today that he has the stomach for reforms that can happen ahead 2020s and beyond. We need a long-term commitment of the CMA outcome. If the Government want to to decarbonisation and a 2030 decarbonisation target demonstrate that they are serious about reforming the to maximise those opportunities. market and improving the situation for customers and The hon. Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee), in a wide- for the industry, including small suppliers and generators, ranging contribution, highlighted the potential role of they will vote for the motion. We can then get on with co-operatives in the mix and the crisis of confidence in making the market clear, fair and transparent. the current market, which underlines the case for change. My hon. Friend the Member for East Lothian (Fiona 3.38 pm O’Donnell) referred to her constituents and, in particular, The Minister of State, Department of Energy and to those who are off the gas grid. I confirm for her again Climate Change (Gregory Barker): This has been a that the new regulator that we propose would regulate lively debate with excellent speeches from across the the off-grid market, as well as the on-grid market, House on this critical issue. I apologise for leaving the because a number of her constituents and many other Front Bench for a short while. I had to go upstairs and people have been the victims of poor practice in that pass the last piece of the legislative jigsaw for the part of the market. renewable heat incentive—a ground-breaking piece of The hon. Member for Poole (Mr Syms) said that he legislation of which the coalition is proud. was concerned that the CMA reference would slow The fact that the referral of the energy market to the down investment. As he has heard today, investment Competition and Markets Authority commands cross-party has already slowed down. There is not a huge amount support is to be welcomed, as is cross-party support for more that it can slow down. What he said made the case our reforms to the electricity market to support clean for getting on with the reforms now, rather than being energy generation, and the cross-party consensus on an excuse to kick the issues into the long grass. meeting our climate change objectives. Consensus on My hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert energy policy is not a product of the soggy centre, but Owen) put the issues with the functioning of the market something to which a responsible politician in government, and the failures in regulation into context very cogently. or opposition, should aspire. There is no reason why they should not be addressed now, rather than waiting until the end of the CMA In practical terms, I am glad that behind the bravado, investigation. if we listened carefully we could just about make out the muffled echo of the Labour party sounding a retreat, Finally, my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield and we may be inching back towards greater consensus (Mr Sheerman) made clear the concerns that are held on the strategic direction of policy. The Labour party is across this House about the functioning of our energy being offered an elegant way out of its discredited, market. disastrous, made-for-a-soundbite energy policy.As attractive The contributions of many Members this afternoon and tempting as it might be in the age of social media to have reflected the reality that in recent years it has offer electorally attractive but fundamentally undeliverable become increasingly obvious that there is a dysfunctional policies, the fact remains that investment certainty and market and alarmingly urgent that it be reset so that it is a better deal for consumers that moves to a clear energy clear, fair and transparent. The reality is that the mark-up system is a complex proposition. Effective energy policy for domestic electricity increased from an average of 7p in government requires well thought through proposals between 2001 and 2009 to 9.2p between 2010 and 2013. that command the respect and support of consumers The reality is that bills have gone up by £300 in three and investors alike. years. The reality is that the investment in lower-carbon A clear demonstration of policy grip was shown by technologies has fallen from £7.2 billion in 2010 to less the Chair of the Energy and Climate Change Committee, than £3 billion last year. The reality was exposed by the my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (Mr Yeo), qualitative research by YouGov, which appeared in The whose speech I thought was a tour de force. In his Times, in which leading figures in the energy industry at characteristically elegant way he made the key and most CEO level said: important point—which was completely lost on the “Customers were taken for granted, service was poor, and no Opposition—that the Government cannot control the one bothered to explain the situation to them”. global wholesale price of gas, and that that is the key That is a damning indictment of the reality that is price maker for UK electricity. The Government can no known by the public, that is seen in the figures and that more control the price of gas than King Canute could has been acknowledged, belatedly, by the industry itself. command the waves, and to pretend otherwise is to con The response from the Government cannot be to say, the British public. My hon. Friend’s second point, “We will just sit tight and hope it gets better. Put it into which is that an attempt by any Government to freeze the long grass.” The Government must not use the prices with such a draconian arbitrary intervention in market referral as an excuse for inaction. As the SSE the energy market would have a terrifying chill on changes showed last week, there are reforms that can investment across the sector, was heard loud and clear and should be made now. Ring-fencing between supply across the Chamber. As my hon. Friend said, we know and generation, scrapping Ofgem and introducing the the price freeze is a cynical political manoeuvre, designed open trading of energy are policies for which we already to prop up the dominance of Labour’s big six. have the evidence. There are some who worry that We heard many other excellent interventions. My market referral is simply an attempt to kick the can hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David down the road. I urge the Minister, who called for Mowat) spoke powerfully about how a price freeze will cross-party consensus in the Chamber last week, to damage investment in new capacity, and my hon. Friend 941 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 942 the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) was tariff. This month we confirmed that we will halve the right to focus on putting consumers first and foremost time it takes to switch providers to just two weeks. We in energy policy. We do not often hear from Labour plan to make that even faster: we have made a commitment about putting the consumer at the heart of energy to 24-hour switching and we will deliver on it. As The policy, but the coalition is determined to do that. Sun says today, switching is the best hope for consumers. My hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee) We are making the energy market more affordable by pointed out the complexity of the energy markets and forcing energy companies to compensate customers for said we should focus more on energy efficiency, and I mis-selling and overcharging. Labour did not do that; absolutely agree. We heard contributions from other we have legislated for it. We have given Ofgem new Members, including the hon. Member for Southampton, powers to force energy companies to compensate consumers Test (Dr Whitehead), who I thought was uncharacteristically for mis-selling and overcharging. We have also provided ponderous and rather tiptoed around the illogicality of discounts and financial support to help people to pay the Labour price freeze. We also heard contributions their bills, including £130 off energy bills for 2 million from the hon. Members for Angus (Mr Weir) and for households this winter. We have protected 12.7 million Newport West (Paul Flynn). The hon. Member for pensioners’ winter fuel payments, made cold weather Glasgow North West (John Robertson) said, in reference payments to more than 4 million people, and cut taxes to the price freeze, that it is not a con to try something. I that add £50 to energy bills. know he is sincere, but it is a con to try to sell something Last week, SSE announced a price freeze. This is not to the public when we know in our heart of hearts that a Labour-style, 1970s legislatively imposed price freeze it cannot work, and when every major commentator that would kill investment and scare away investors, but and expert in the field has said that it cannot work. That a price freeze borne of competition and an increasingly is trying to perpetrate a con. competitive market. SSE said that decisions taken to The bottom line is that Labour’s hit-and-run soundbite reduce delivery costs of the energy company obligation, energy policy is not credible to consumers or investors. and decisions announced by the Chancellor in the autumn When it comes to UK energy policy, Labour has a statement, were the principal factors in it being able to hashtag, but we have a long-term economic plan. Labour make this price commitment. talks of a bill freeze; we act to cut bills. Labour’s big We are making the energy market more competitive answer is a new quango; we are delivering real action. by deregulating the energy market to encourage vital Labour’s answer to our problems is more red tape; we new entrants. Nine new entrants have entered the market want more competition. Labour put its trust in its new in the past two years alone, and the number of customers super-bureaucrats; we believe that the answer lies not with independent suppliers has trebled under the coalition. with more bureaucrats and their super quango, but with We are forcing the big six to play fair with small entrepreneurs and dynamic new entrants—those are the suppliers. keys to competition. Labour wants to go back to the 1970s and put Whitehall at the heart of energy markets; Mr Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab): claimed to we, as my hon. Friends have pointed out, want to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36). empower consumers. Labour wants the best tariffs for Question put forthwith, That the Question be now the over-75s; we have acted to put everyone on the best put. tariffs. Question agreed to. Let us not just critique Labour’s record in opposition Main Question accordingly put. because we should not forget its record in government. Labour created the big six—[Interruption.] Yes, Labour The House divided: Ayes 248, Noes 275. Members may squeal; they hate to be reminded of it, Division No. 244] [3.47 pm but that is the fact. Labour created the big six. It had the opportunity to refer the issue to a competition inquiry, AYES and not just Labour but the Leader of the Opposition Abbott, Ms Diane Blenkinsop, Tom failed to do so. Labour was responsible for the investment Abrahams, Debbie Blomfield, Paul desert that characterised 13 years of under-investment Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Blunkett, rh Mr David in energy capacity. We saw contraction of competition Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben under Labour, but the coalition is unleashing a new era Alexander, Heidi Brennan, Kevin of competition. Labour Members know that wholesale Ali, Rushanara Brown, Lyn prices cannot be controlled. We would not know that Allen, Mr Graham Brown, rh Mr Nicholas from listening to them, but why else did gas prices Ashworth, Jonathan Brown, Mr Russell double when they were in government and why else did Austin, Ian Bryant, Chris electricity bills go up by more than 50% on their watch? Bailey, Mr Adrian Buck, Ms Karen Bain, Mr William Burden, Richard We know that we cannot control the world price, but Balls, rh Ed Burnham, rh Andy that does not mean we stand aside from the market. We Banks, Gordon Byrne, rh Mr Liam are rolling up our sleeves and making real reforms. Barron, rh Kevin Campbell, rh Mr Alan Since day one, we have worked to make the energy Beckett, rh Margaret Campbell, Mr Ronnie market more affordable, and to increase competition Begg, Dame Anne Caton, Martin and unlock much-needed investment. We have made the Benn, rh Hilary Champion, Sarah energy market easier to navigate by forcing energy Benton, Mr Joe Chapman, Jenny companies to put people on to the lowest tariffs. We Berger, Luciana Clark, Katy have slashed the number of tariffs we inherited from Betts, Mr Clive Clarke, rh Mr Tom Labour from 400 to just four per supplier, and forced Blackman-Woods, Roberta Clwyd, rh Ann suppliers to put consumers on the cheapest variable Blears, rh Hazel Coaker, Vernon 943 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 944

Coffey, Ann Heyes, David Owen, Albert Smith, Angela Connarty, Michael Hilling, Julie Paisley, Ian Smith, Nick Cooper, Rosie Hodge, rh Margaret Pearce, Teresa Spellar, rh Mr John Cooper, rh Yvette Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Perkins, Toby Straw, rh Mr Jack Corbyn, Jeremy Hoey, Kate Powell, Lucy Stringer, Graham Crausby, Mr David Hopkins, Kelvin Qureshi, Yasmin Stuart, Ms Gisela Creagh, Mary Howarth, rh Mr George Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Creasy, Stella Hunt, Tristram Reed, Mr Jamie Tami, Mark Cruddas, Jon Irranca-Davies, Huw Reed, Mr Steve Thornberry, Emily Cryer, John Jackson, Glenda Reeves, Rachel Timms, rh Stephen Cunningham, Alex James, Mrs Siân C. Reynolds, Emma Trickett, Jon Cunningham, Mr Jim Jamieson, Cathy Reynolds, Jonathan Turner, Karl Cunningham, Sir Tony Johnson, rh Alan Riordan, Mrs Linda Twigg, Derek Curran, Margaret Johnson, Diana Ritchie, Ms Margaret Twigg, Stephen Dakin, Nic Jones, Helen Robertson, John Umunna, Mr Chuka Danczuk, Simon Jones, Mr Kevan Rotheram, Steve Vaz, rh Keith Darling, rh Mr Alistair Jones, Susan Elan Roy, Mr Frank Vaz, Valerie David, Wayne Jowell, rh Dame Tessa Roy, Lindsay Walley, Joan Davidson, Mr Ian Kane, Mike Ruane, Chris Watson, Mr Tom Davies, Geraint Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Watts, Mr Dave De Piero, Gloria Keeley, Barbara Sarwar, Anas Whitehead, Dr Alan Denham, rh Mr John Kendall, Liz Sawford, Andy Williams, Hywel Dobbin, Jim Khan, rh Sadiq Seabeck, Alison Williamson, Chris Dobson, rh Frank Lammy, rh Mr David Shannon, Jim Winnick, Mr David Docherty, Thomas Lavery, Ian Sharma, Mr Virendra Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Leslie, Chris Sheerman, Mr Barry Woodcock, John Doran, Mr Frank Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Sheridan, Jim Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Doughty, Stephen Lewis, Mr Ivan Shuker, Gavin Wright, David Dowd, Jim Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Simpson, David Wright, Mr Iain Doyle, Gemma Long, Naomi Skinner, Mr Dennis Tellers for the Ayes: Dromey, Jack Love, Mr Andrew Slaughter, Mr Andy Bridget Phillipson and Dugher, Michael Lucas, Caroline Smith, rh Mr Andrew Phil Wilson Durkan, Mark Lucas, Ian Eagle, Ms Angela Mactaggart, Fiona Eagle, Maria Mahmood, Shabana NOES Edwards, Jonathan Malhotra, Seema Adams, Nigel Burns, rh Mr Simon Efford, Clive Mann, John Afriyie, Adam Burrowes, Mr David Elliott, Julie Marsden, Mr Gordon Aldous, Peter Burstow, rh Paul Ellman, Mrs Louise McCabe, Steve Amess, Mr David Burt, Lorely Engel, Natascha McCann, Mr Michael Andrew, Stuart Byles, Dan Esterson, Bill McCarthy, Kerry Bacon, Mr Richard Cable, rh Vince Evans, Chris McClymont, Gregg Baker, Norman Cairns, Alun Farrelly, Paul McCrea, Dr William Baker, Steve Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Field, rh Mr Frank McDonagh, Siobhain Baldry, rh Sir Tony Carmichael, Neil Fitzpatrick, Jim McDonald, Andy Barclay, Stephen Chishti, Rehman Flello, Robert McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Barker, rh Gregory Clappison, Mr James Flint, rh Caroline McFadden, rh Mr Pat Baron, Mr John Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Flynn, Paul McGovern, Alison Barwell, Gavin Coffey, Dr Thérèse Fovargue, Yvonne McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Bebb, Guto Collins, Damian Francis, Dr Hywel McKechin, Ann Beith, rh Sir Alan Colvile, Oliver Gapes, Mike McKenzie, Mr Iain Bellingham, Mr Henry Cox, Mr Geoffrey Gardiner, Barry McKinnell, Catherine Benyon, Richard Crabb, Stephen Gilmore, Sheila Meacher, rh Mr Michael Beresford, Sir Paul Crockart, Mike Glass, Pat Meale, Sir Alan Bingham, Andrew Crouch, Tracey Glindon, Mrs Mary Mearns, Ian Binley, Mr Brian Davey, rh Mr Edward Godsiff, Mr Roger Miliband, rh Edward Blackman, Bob Davies, Glyn Goodman, Helen Miller, Andrew Blackwood, Nicola Davies, Philip Greatrex, Tom Mitchell, Austin Blunt, Crispin Davis, rh Mr David Green, Kate Moon, Mrs Madeleine Bone, Mr Peter de Bois, Nick Greenwood, Lilian Morden, Jessica Bottomley, Sir Peter Dinenage, Caroline Griffith, Nia Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Bradley, Karen Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Gwynne, Andrew Morris, Grahame M. Brady, Mr Graham Dorries, Nadine Hain, rh Mr Peter (Easington) Brake, rh Tom Doyle-Price, Jackie Hamilton, Mr David Mudie, Mr George Bray, Angie Drax, Richard Hamilton, Fabian Munn, Meg Brazier, Mr Julian Duddridge, James Hanson, rh Mr David Murphy, rh Paul Bridgen, Andrew Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Harman, rh Ms Harriet Murray, Ian Brine, Steve Ellis, Michael Harris, Mr Tom Nandy, Lisa Brokenshire, James Ellison, Jane Healey, rh John Nash, Pamela Brooke, Annette Eustice, George Hendrick, Mark O’Donnell, Fiona Browne, Mr Jeremy Evans, Graham Hepburn, Mr Stephen Onwurah, Chi Bruce, Fiona Evans, Jonathan Hermon, Lady Osborne, Sandra Burns, Conor Evennett, Mr David 945 Energy Price Freeze2 APRIL 2014 Energy Price Freeze 946

Fabricant, Michael Lloyd, Stephen Shepherd, Sir Richard Vara, Mr Shailesh Fallon, rh Michael Lopresti, Jack Simpson, Mr Keith Vickers, Martin Farron, Tim Loughton, Tim Skidmore, Chris Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Field, Mark Luff, Sir Peter Smith, Chloe Walker, Mr Charles Foster, rh Mr Don Lumley, Karen Smith, Henry Walker, Mr Robin Fox,rhDrLiam Macleod, Mary Smith, Sir Robert Wallace, Mr Ben Francois, rh Mr Mark May, rh Mrs Theresa Soames, rh Nicholas Walter, Mr Robert Freer, Mike McCartney, Jason Spencer, Mr Mark Ward, Mr David Fuller, Richard McCartney, Karl Stanley, rh Sir John Watkinson, Dame Angela Gale, Sir Roger McIntosh, Miss Anne Stewart, Bob Weatherley, Mike Garnier, Sir Edward McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Stewart, Iain Webb, Steve Garnier, Mark McPartland, Stephen Stewart, Rory Wharton, James Gauke, Mr David McVey, rh Esther Streeter, Mr Gary Wheeler, Heather George, Andrew Mercer, Patrick Stride, Mel White, Chris Gibb, Mr Nick Metcalfe, Stephen Stuart, Mr Graham Whittaker, Craig Glen, John Miller, rh Maria Stunell, rh Sir Andrew Whittingdale, Mr John Goldsmith, Zac Mills, Nigel Sturdy, Julian Wiggin, Bill Goodwill, Mr Robert Milton, Anne Swales, Ian Williams, Mr Mark Gove, rh Michael Moore, rh Michael Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Williams, Stephen Graham, Richard Mordaunt, Penny Swire, rh Mr Hugo Williamson, Gavin Gray, Mr James Morgan, Nicky Syms, Mr Robert Willott, Jenny Grayling, rh Chris Morris, Anne Marie Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Wilson, Mr Rob Green, rh Damian Morris, David Thornton, Mike Wright, Jeremy Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Morris, James Tomlinson, Justin Wright, Simon Griffiths, Andrew Mosley, Stephen Tredinnick, David Yeo, Mr Tim Halfon, Robert Mowat, David Truss, Elizabeth Young, rh Sir George Hames, Duncan Mulholland, Greg Turner, Mr Andrew Zahawi, Nadhim Hammond, Stephen Munt, Tessa Tyrie, Mr Andrew Tellers for the Noes: Hancock, Matthew Murray, Sheryll Uppal, Paul Mark Hunter and Hands, rh Greg Neill, Robert Vaizey, Mr Edward Harriett Baldwin Harper, Mr Mark Newmark, Mr Brooks Harris, Rebecca Newton, Sarah Hart, Simon Nokes, Caroline Question accordingly negatived. Harvey, Sir Nick Norman, Jesse Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Nuttall, Mr David 4.2 pm Heald, Oliver Ollerenshaw, Eric Heath, Mr David Opperman, Guy Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): On a point Heaton-Harris, Chris Ottaway, rh Sir Richard of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. My hon. Friend the Hemming, John Paice, rh Sir James Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) raised Henderson, Gordon Parish, Neil with Mr Speaker after Prime Minister’s Question Time Herbert, rh Nick Patel, Priti the Prime Minister’s saying earlier that it was in Labour’s Hinds, Damian Paterson, rh Mr Owen manifesto to sell off Royal Mail. My hon. Friend quoted Hoban, Mr Mark Pawsey, Mark the Labour manifesto policy, which was that Hollingbery, George Penrose, John “continuing modernisation and investment will be needed by the Hollobone, Mr Philip Perry, Claire Royal Mail in the public sector.” Holloway, Mr Adam Phillips, Stephen Hopkins, Kris Pickles, rh Mr Eric I wonder whether you can help, Madam Deputy Horwood, Martin Pincher, Christopher Speaker. If the Prime Minister has misled the House, Howarth, Sir Gerald Prisk, Mr Mark inadvertently, does he not have a responsibility to come Howell, John Pritchard, Mark to the House at the first opportunity to explain and to Hughes, rh Simon Pugh, John apologise to the House for what he has said? Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Raab, Mr Dominic Huppert, Dr Julian Randall, rh Sir John Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Thank Hurd, Mr Nick Reckless, Mark you, Mr Winnick. I get the drift of your point of order, Jackson, Mr Stewart Redwood, rh Mr John which, as an experienced Member of this House, you James, Margot Rees-Mogg, Jacob will appreciate is not a point of order for me in the Javid, Sajid Reevell, Simon Chair; it is a matter of debate and interpretation, and Jenkin, Mr Bernard Reid, Mr Alan each Member of this House is responsible for their Jones, Andrew Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Jones, rh Mr David Robathan, rh Mr Andrew contributions during Question Times and debates. It is Kawczynski, Daniel Robertson, Mr Laurence not a responsibility of the Chair. Kelly, Chris Rosindell, Andrew Kirby, Simon Rudd, Amber Mr Winnick: Further to that point of order, Madam Knight, rh Sir Greg Ruffley, Mr David Deputy Speaker— Kwarteng, Kwasi Russell, Sir Bob Lancaster, Mark Rutley, David Madam Deputy Speaker: I have ruled on your point Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Sanders, Mr Adrian of order, Mr Winnick, so with respect, you cannot come Lee, Dr Phillip Sandys, Laura back a second time and put the same one to me. Leech, Mr John Scott, Mr Lee Leslie, Charlotte Selous, Andrew Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): On a point of order, Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Sharma, Alok Madam Deputy Speaker. I have just been contacted by Lewis, Brandon Shelbrooke, Alec the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) 947 2 APRIL 2014 948

[Keith Vaz] Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism about a constituent of his who is being removed by the Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Before I Home Office today. She is on her way to Heathrow ask the Minister to move the motion, I should point out airport, her mother having given evidence to the Select to the House that there is a note on the Order Paper Committee on Home Affairs yesterday. saying that the draft order under the Terrorism Act I am seeking your guidance because I do not know 2000, item 4 on the Order Paper, has not yet been whether it is in order, given that the hon. Gentleman has considered by the Joint Committee on Statutory made this request to me—I understand he has spoken Instruments. I can now inform the House that the Joint to other members of the Select Committee—for a potential Committee considered the order at its meeting earlier witness to a Select Committee to be removed from the this afternoon and decided that it does not need to draw United Kingdom before they have had an opportunity the House’s special attention to it. to give evidence, if indeed she is called to give evidence. May I seek your guidance on the rules, so that the Select Committee does not do anything out of order? 4.6 pm The Minister for Security and Immigration (James Madam Deputy Speaker: The right hon. Gentleman Brokenshire): I beg to move, raises an extremely interesting point of order, which That the Terrorism Act 2000 (Proscribed Organisations) poses a number of complicated procedural questions. I (Amendment) Order 2014, which was laid before this House on hope he will forgive me if I do not rule directly now on 31 March, be approved. his point of order. I need to confer with the Speaker. The Government are determined to do all they can to I will make sure that the right hon. Gentleman gets a minimise the threat from terrorism to the UK and our reply as quickly as possible, and that the House is interests abroad. In addition, it is important that we informed as well. demonstrate our support for other members of the international community in their efforts to tackle terrorism Business without Debate wherever it occurs. Proscription is an important part of the Government’s strategy to tackle terrorist activities. DELEGATED LEGISLATION We propose to add Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis, which is also known as Ansar Jerusalem, Al Murabitun and Ansar al Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Sharia-Tunisia to the list of international terrorist Order No. 118(6)), organisations, amending schedule 2 of the Terrorism Act 2000. This is the 14th proscription order under POLICE that Act. That the draft Police and Crime Commissioner Elections Section 3 of the Terrorism Act 2000 provides a power (Amendment) Order 2014, which was laid before this House on 24 February, be approved.—(Gavin Barwell.) for the Home Secretary to proscribe an organisation if she believes it is currently concerned in terrorism. The Question agreed to. Act specifies that an organisation is concerned in terrorism if it commits or participates in acts of terrorism, prepares for terrorism, promotes or encourages terrorism, including the glorification of terrorism, or is otherwise concerned in terrorism. If the test is met, the Home Secretary may then exercise her discretion to proscribe the organisation. In considering whether to exercise this discretion, the Home Secretary takes into account a number of factors. These are the nature and scale of an organisation’s activities; the specific threat that it poses to the United Kingdom; the specific threat that it poses to British nationals overseas; the organisation’s presence in the UK; and the need to support other members of the international community in tackling terrorism. Proscription is a tough but necessary power. Its effect is that a listed organisation is outlawed and is unable to operate in the UK. It is a criminal offence for a person to belong to a proscribed organisation, invite support for a proscribed organisation, arrange a meeting in support of a proscribed organisation, or wear clothing or carry articles in public which arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation. Given the wide-ranging impact of proscription, the Home Secretary exercises her power to proscribe only after a thorough review of the available relevant information and evidence on the organisation.

Keith Vaz: When we proscribe an organisation that has links to other countries—the first two the Minister mentioned have links to Egypt; the second two have 949 Prevention and Suppression of 2 APRIL 2014 Prevention and Suppression of 950 Terrorism Terrorism links to Tunisia—do we consult those countries before unite Muslims from the Nile to the Atlantic, and has placing an order before the House? I support what the affirmed its loyalty to the al-Qaeda leader, Ayman Minister is doing today, but I just want to be clear about al-Zawahiri, and the emir of the Afghan Taliban, Mullah the process. Did we tell those countries that the orders Omar. Al Murabitun’s first statement threatened France were on their way? and its allies in the region, and called on Muslims to target French interests everywhere. James Brokenshire: The orders are made after careful Belmokhtar has announced that he will not continue consideration, part of which involves input and to lead the group to allow a new generation of jihadist consideration from the Foreign Office. That might or leaders to come to the fore. Reports indicate that the might not include co-operation or contact with individual new commander has fought against the Soviet Union in Governments or authorities. I can tell the right hon. Afghanistan and against the international intervention Gentleman that such broad consideration is always in Afghanistan in the 2000s. Although the group has given to these orders, in the light of the factors that I not claimed responsibility for any terrorist attacks since have identified, including the impact that they could the merger, both precursor groups participated in a have here in the UK and on British citizens overseas. number of terrorist attacks and kidnapping for ransom There is a need to send out a clear message in relation to in the past 13 months. Belmokhtar’s group was responsible a number of these terrorist organisations. for the attack against the In Amenas gas facility in I shall expand a little on the steps that are being January 2013 that resulted in the death of more than undertaken. They include research into and investigation 30 people, including Britons. In May 2013, the two of open-source material, intelligence material and advice groups targeted a military barracks in Agadez in Niger that reflects consultation across the government, including and a uranium mine in Arlit which supplies French with the intelligence and law enforcement agencies. The nuclear reactors. The suicide attack in Agadez resulted Home Secretary is supported in her decision-making in the deaths of at least 20 people. Shortly after the process by the cross-Whitehall proscription review group. attacks, Belmokhtar indicated that they had been carried The decision to proscribe is taken with great care by the out as a form of revenge for the death of Abdelhamid Home Secretary, and it is right that the case for proscribing Abou Zeid, an al-Qaeda in the Maghreb commander new organisations must be approved by both Houses. who was killed by French forces in northern Mali Having carefully considered all the evidence, the Home earlier in 2013. Despite previously separating themselves Secretary believes that ABM, Al Murabitun and Ansar from al-Qaeda in the Maghreb, citing leadership issues al Sharia-Tunisia are currently concerned in terrorism. and the desire to expand their control, both precursor Hon. Members will appreciate that I am unable to groups continued to co-operate and fight alongside comment on specific intelligence, but it might help the AQM fighters in Mali and other regions of west Africa— House if I provide a brief summary of their activities. that activity has continued since the merger. Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis—ABM—is an al-Qaeda-inspired The Sahel region continues to see high threats of militant Islamist group based in the northern Sinai kidnap and terrorist attacks, which were further heightened region of Egypt. The group is said to recruit within following the French military intervention in Mali. Hostages Egypt and abroad, and it aims to create an Egyptian are currently held in the Sahel and surrounding regions, state ruled by sharia law. ABM is assessed to have been which includes Algeria, Cameroon, Libya and Nigeria. responsible for a number of attacks on security forces in The Canadians designated Belmokhtar’s group in Egypt since 2011. The attacks appear to have increased November 2013 and the US designated it in December since the overthrow of the Morsi Government in July 2013, specifying Al Murabitun as an alias. 2013. The group’s reach goes beyond the Sinai region, The third group, Ansar al Sharia-Tunisia—AAS-T—is in that it claims responsibility for a number of attacks a radical Islamist group founded in April 2011. The in Cairo as well as cross-border attacks against Israel. group aims to establish sharia law in Tunisia and eliminate ABM has undertaken attacks using vehicle-borne western influence. Between 5,000 and 10,000 individuals improvised explosive devices and surface-to-air missiles. may be attracted to rallies organised by the movement. I shall give the House some examples of attacks for The group is ideologically aligned to al-Qaeda and has which the group has claimed responsibility. They include links to al-Qaeda-affiliated groups. It is reported that an attack on the Egyptian Interior Minister in September the group announced its loyalty to al-Qaeda in the 2013 in which a UK national was seriously injured; an Islamic Maghreb in September 2013. attack on a police compound in Mansoura on 24 December AAS-T’s leader, Seif Allah Ibn Hussein, also known 2013 that killed at least 16 people, including 14 police as Abu Ayadh al-Tunis, is a former al-Qaeda veteran officers; an attack on an Egyptian police helicopter in combatant in Afghanistan. He has been hiding following the northern Sinai on 25 January 2014; the assassination the issue of a warrant for his arrest in relation to the of General Mohammed Saeed, an official in the interior allegation that he incited the attack on the US embassy ministry, on 28 January 2014; and an attack on a tourist in Tunis that killed four people in September 2012. bus in which three South Koreans and their Egyptian Salafists believed to have links with AAS-T are assessed driver died on 16 January 2014. to be responsible for the attacks in October 2011 on a The second group, Al Murabitun, resulted from a television station and the attack in June 2012 on an art merger of two al-Qaeda in the Maghreb splinter groups exhibit. AAS-T is assessed to be responsible for the that are active in Mali and Algeria: the Movement for attacks on the US embassy and American school in the Unity and Jihad in West Africa, and Mokhtar Tunis in September 2012. The Tunisian Government Belmokhtar’s group, the Al Mulathamine Battalion, believe AAS-T was responsible for the assassinations of which included the commando element known as “Those two national coalition Assembly Members, those of Who Sign in Blood”. The merger was announced in a Chokri Belaid in February 2013 and Mohamed Brahmi public statement in August 2013. The group aspires to in July 2013. Additionally, elements of the group are 951 Prevention and Suppression of 2 APRIL 2014 Prevention and Suppression of 952 Terrorism Terrorism [James Brokenshire] Commission. The commission will allow an appeal if, after applying judicial review principles, it considers believed to have been involved in the attempted suicide that the decision to refuse the proscription was flawed. I attack, in October 2013, at a hotel in a tourist resort in hope that that explains to the right hon. Gentleman the Sousse, where a significant number of British tourists process that we adopt in these circumstances. were staying. More than 400,000 British tourists visited In conclusion, it is right that we add Ansar Bayt Tunisia last year. The Tunisian Government listed AAS-T al-Maqdis, Al Murabitun and Ansar al Sharia-Tunisia as a terrorist group in 2013 and the US did so in to the list of proscribed organisations in schedule 2 to January 2014. the Terrorism Act 2000, and I hope that the House will Subject to the agreement of this House and the other support the Government in that move. place, the order will come into force on Friday 4 April. It is, of course, not appropriate for us to discuss specific 4.22 pm intelligence that leads to any decision to proscribe. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): I thank the Minister for his statement and for the letter Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Paragraph 12 from the Home Secretary to the shadow Home Secretary, of the explanatory memorandum states: laying out the rationale for the proscription of the three “If a proscribed organisation…applies to the Secretary of groups. State for deproscription, the proscription of the organisation will There is a long tradition of cross-party co-operation be reviewed.” on issues of national security, and the Opposition will How does that work in practice? If an organisation and support the Government in their motion today. As the its members are illegal—proscribed—how do they have Minister has laid out, section 3 of the Terrorism Act the locus to apply to be have the proscription reviewed? 2000 sets out the grounds on which a group can be proscribed. James Brokenshire: Under the current regime, the Proscription is a vital tool against terrorism, and it organisation or person affected by a proscription can enables us to tackle and disrupt terror groups co-operating submit a written application to the Home Secretary around the world. Of course that makes proscription requesting that she considers whether they or a specified a serious matter. It makes it illegal to belong to, or organisation can be removed from the list of proscribed support in any way, a listed organisation. This is a organisations. There is a process for this. The application draconian measure, so we should use the power only should also state the grounds on which it is made, and when we know that it is appropriate. the Home Secretary is required to determine the application In this case, the Opposition are happy to accept the within 90 days. Minister, and the Home Secretary’s assurances on the If the Secretary of State agrees to de-proscribe that basis that all three groups seem to have been involved in organisation, she has to lay an order before Parliament terrorism at the highest end of seriousness, including removing it from the list of proscribed organisations. In some directed at our citizens and allies. practice, all the evidence and intelligence have to be Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis came to prominence during considered across Whitehall. The order is then subject the Arab spring. It aims to establish Sharia law in to the affirmative resolution process. In other words, it Egypt. The group, which appears to be al-Qaeda-inspired is a similar process to a proscription application. I have if not linked, has been responsible for a string of terror to say to the House that no de-proscription applications attacks, which the Minister outlined. In 2010, the group have been received since June 2009. was linked with an attack on a Jordanian and Israeli pipeline. In 2013, it was thought to be responsible for Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): On the process of rocket attacks into southern Israel as well as the murder de-proscription, I have raised it whenever these orders of three South Koreans and an Egyptian. In January have gone through the House. The process is not as this year, as the Minister set out, the group was linked robust as it should be. David Anderson, the independent with a suicide attack that killed 16 people, including terrorism tsar—if we can call him that—has made 14 police officers. specific suggestions to try to improve it. When I last Al Murabitun has an even closer al-Qaeda link, having raised this matter with the Minister, he said that he emerged out of al-Qaeda in the Land of Islamic Maghreb would come back to the House shortly—to use that and the Movement for Unity and Jihad in West Africa. classic phrase—and explain his views. Does he have The group has been linked to jihadists across north views now on the process? Africa and to terror attacks in Algeria and Niger, both killing scores of people. In particular, I should mention James Brokenshire: I did come back to the House on the January 2013 attack on the In Amenas gas facility, the last proscription order. I appreciate that the right which killed 30 people including Britons and Americans. hon. Gentleman was not able to participate in that particular debate, but I did underline that it is the Finally we have Ansar al Sharia-Tunisia, whose founder Government’s intention that de-proscription should be is known to have ties to al-Qaeda. The State Department considered on receipt of an application setting out the says that that organisation grounds on which it is made. De-proscription will then “is ideologically aligned with al-Qaeda and tied to its affiliates, be considered by the Home Secretary in accordance including AQIM”. with the Terrorism Act 2000. In other words, it is on an The group has been involved in a number of attacks on application process, and that is the view to which we western targets in Libya and Tunisia. have come. Just to finish the point on this process, if the The Opposition are always limited in what we can say application is refused, there is an appeals process that in these cases, because we do not have access to the operates through the Proscribed Organisations Appeal same intelligence as the Minister and the Home Secretary. 953 Prevention and Suppression of 2 APRIL 2014 Prevention and Suppression of 954 Terrorism Terrorism It would be helpful if the Minister could comment in interventions that have been made as the House has general terms on why the United Kingdom has decided considered several such motions that the Home Affairs to act now, as many of the groups have committed Committee and the independent reviewer of terrorism attacks on our allies or have resulted in the deaths of legislation have long been asking the Government how Britons over the past two years. a group can be de-proscribed. The only group ever to be Last time a proscription order was discussed in the de-proscribed obtained that through judicial review. House, I raised the effect of proscription on content The Select Committee has been pushing the Government relating to terror groups appearing on social media. for some time to get a proper structure in place to make That content is hosted outside the United Kingdom but these decisions. is readily accessible in the United Kingdom. The Minister According to the independent reviewer of terrorism, helpfully laid out the work of the counter terrorism the Home Office was at one point considering an annual internet referral unit. Will he confirm what progress the review of the proscribed list to see which groups still group has made on removing material in the past year met the criteria. Of course, we should encourage any and how many pages it has managed to take down? Last group to renounce terrorism. The Home Office clearly year, the Minister told the House how the counter needs to justify the continued proscription of terror terrorism internet referral unit took referrals and passed groups, on some of which we know that the independent them on to ISPs. What measures are in place proactively reviewer of terrorism suggests there is no current evidence to seek out such sites and to get the hosting companies, of terrorist involvement even in this century. According whether they are Google, Facebook or other companies, to the independent reviewer’s website last summer, the to seek out and remove such content? Home Office had compiled a list of up to 14 groups that I was pleased this morning that the Minister’s colleague, no longer met the criteria for proscription. Will the the Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims, Minister confirm that that is correct? announced additional industry support for the Internet The independent reviewer had been calling for that Watch Foundation to tackle online child abuse. What annual review of proscribed groups, but the Home similar measures have been discussed in relation to Office seems now to have ignored that suggestion and counter-terrorism? instead instigated this procedure, which the Minister set As I said earlier, the Opposition are always limited in out in response to interventions, whereby an individual what we can say about proscription, because it is up to who is directly affected by a proscription order can the Home Secretary to analyse the evidence and make a apply for the order to be lifted. Owing to the level of decision. However, that did not stop the Government concern, does the Minister consider it appropriate to set using proscription to score political points when they out in detail how that procedure takes place, so that were in opposition. The present Prime Minister, then hon. Members can fully understand how an individual, Leader of the Opposition, said in this House that he who might put themselves in difficulty by coming forward, would ban the group Hizb ut-Tahrir. I hope the Minister might access it and take it forward? It would be helpful will comment on why the Prime Minister made that if the Minister were to put a letter or note in the Library rash promise. If the Prime Minister was right to make setting that out in detail. that promise, why has not the Home Secretary acted 4.31 pm on it? Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Keith Vaz: I am glad that my hon. Friend has raised Hull North (Diana Johnson). It is always good to the question of Hizb ut-Tahrir. I was in the House when participate in a debate on a measure that has all-party the Prime Minister made that pledge and I think he support. I am convinced that the order will pass through meant it genuinely and thinks that the group ought to the House, because the House understands the importance be banned because of its violent activity. Is she therefore of these orders and the significance of counter-terrorism as surprised as I am that even though the Prime Minister issues. feels that a group is a terrorist organisation, it carries on with its activities and the Government appear to be I am delighted to see two members of the Home unable to do anything about it? Affairs Committee here today, both of whom play an important part in the Committee’s deliberations: the Diana Johnson: The Chairman of the Home Affairs hon. Members for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) and for Committee makes an important point. I hope that the Northampton North (Michael Ellis). The Committee is Minister will respond to our concerns and will be able undertaking an inquiry into counter-terrorism, and it is to reassure the House that he is continuing to watch and our intention to publish our report at the beginning consider the activities of Hizb ut-Tahrir. of May. The inquiry is slightly longer than those the Committee usually undertakes; it has now lasted about Last year, I raised in the House my concerns about six months. The issue of proscription is one that we the activity of Hizb ut-Tahrir on university campuses. have raised in our Committee sessions. Committee members Hizb ut-Tahrir was singled out by the Prevent strategy currently spend more time with the Minister for Security review as a group that was active on university campuses and Immigration than they do with members of their radicalising students. It would be helpful if the Minister own families. He was with us for an hour and a half could update the House on what has happened to deal yesterday at the Home Affairs Committee and here he is with that issue. again in his other job. I am not sure about British jobs Finally, I want to raise the issue mentioned by the for British workers, but at least two jobs for each right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) and Minister may be the solution to the unemployment my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East problems in this country. So far he has done them (Keith Vaz). It concerns de-proscription and time limits. extremely well. Only time will tell, given his huge work The Minister is well aware from the comments and load. I am one of his fans, so I am sure he will cope. 955 Prevention and Suppression of 2 APRIL 2014 Prevention and Suppression of 956 Terrorism Terrorism [Keith Vaz] turn up to its demonstrations. I think that it is important to know broadly how many people are involved in those Back Benchers and members of the Select Committee activities here. usually take it as read and accept at face value a I want to make two other points, one of which Minister—be it a member of this Government or the concerns the way that certain organisations can change previous Government—coming to the Dispatch Box to their name, telephone number and website but carry on say that they have intelligence and believe strongly that being involved in the same activities. On a previous certain organisations should be banned. We appreciate occasion I used the example of Anjem Choudary, whose that there are issues that Ministers, especially the Minister organisation had a number of different names, including for Security and Immigration, know about that they Islam4UK, Al-Muhajiroun, Call to Submission, Islamic cannot disclose to the House. Therefore, we support Path, the London School of Sharia and the Saved Sect. what he says. I certainly support it, and I am sure the The latest name is Islamic Emergency Defence—IED. I House will support it. It is awful to sit here and hear know that the Minister is on top of his brief, but about the activities of various groups—Ansar Jerusalem perhaps he could reassure the House that we are monitoring and Al Murabitun, operating in Egypt, and Ansar al changes in names, websites and addresses so that we Sharia, operating in Tunisia. Some have been operating know whether organisations are still there but called by for a good deal of time, and in respect of the atrocities other names. that in some cases have been committed by these groups, Like my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon they go way back to 2011. Hull North, I am concerned about what is happening My concern, which I raised in my earlier intervention, is with Hizb ut-Tahrir. I think that the Prime Minister that those organisations are not household names for genuinely wants to ban that group. He has probably the British public. Therefore, when Ministers tell us gone to the Home Secretary and said, “Ban this group. I about them, we listen carefully and accept what they don’t like them. They’re up to mischief,” and the Home say. That is why I think that when an order of this kind Secretary, who I know is tough, would ban something if comes before the House, the Government ought to she could, as we know from Monday’s delegated legislation ensure that the Governments concerned—I would not Committee. Why is Hizb ut-Tahrir still carrying on its like to call them the parent Governments, but the activities when the Prime Minister, who I know feels Governments those groups seek to overthrow—are very strongly about these matters, feels that it ought to informed. be banned? I was in the House on the occasion in May Before coming to the House today I spoke with the 2011, which I am sure you will recall, Mr Speaker, when Tunisian ambassador, His Excellency Nabil Ammar, an he made a passionate plea for the organisation to be excellent representative of Tunisia, who informed me banned, so I hope that we can satisfy his desires on this that the Tunisian Government were not aware that this subject. order was coming before the House. That could be the My final point is about de-proscription. David Anderson, result of a breakdown in communications between the the terrorism tsar, if I may call him that, felt that there Foreign Office and the Home Office, or perhaps our ought to be time-limited proscription. I have raised Government do not tell foreign Governments when this before and raise again the situation of the Tamil community is about to happen, but I think that it would be wise for and the LTTE—the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. them to do so in future. The head of the LTTE, Mr Prabhakaran, has been The order is to come into force on Friday. I think that killed, and the organisation has ceased to exist, but it is all these organisations are banned in their own countries. still banned. I have 7,000 members of the Tamil community They certainly are Tunisia, although I could not get in my constituency. Before you took the Chair, through to the Egyptian ambassador to speak to him Mr Speaker—I think it was your last delegation before about these matters. The Tunisian ambassador tells me you took office—you went to visit Sri Lanka and saw that Ansar al Sharia was banned three months ago, for yourself the misery that had been inflicted on the partly because of the changes following the Tunisian Tamil community. Sometimes I get calls from members revolution, the election of a Government and then their of my community who feel that the LTTE ought to be fall and replacement by the present President, Moncef de-proscribed. Obviously, the Minister will say, “Well, Marzouki. let them apply for it”, but who could do that? People do not want to be associated with this organisation. If they My plea is that in future it should be incumbent on start to fill in the application forms, somebody might the Home Office to tell the Foreign Office and for the think that they were involved with the LTTE, but that is Foreign Office at least to tell the foreign Governments not the case—they are good law-abiding Tamils. There concerned. That might have been done in Cairo and should be a mechanism—perhaps an automatic trigger— Tunis, but it certainly has not been done in London. We that enables the Government and Ministers to review are concerned with what those groups are getting up to these matters before the order becomes a continuing not in Cairo, Sharm el-Sheikh, Alexandria, Tunis, one that goes on for ever. Hammamet or Sousse, but here in our country. It is therefore important that we get that information across. 4.41 pm It would also be helpful if the Minister could tell us—I am not sure whether he intends to wind up the Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I want to make a debate—whether he knows how many people are operating brief contribution and ask a few questions of the Minister. in those organisations in our country. I know that it is We in the Democratic Unionist party fully support not the 5,000 he mentioned with regard to Ansar Jerusalem, the Government’s intention to proscribe these organisations which regularly attracts hundreds of thousands of people, and feel that that is necessary. Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis or Ansar al Sharia, which I am told has around 100,000 has specifically targeted the state of Israel. As a supporter people involved in Tunisia, even though only 5,000 might of the state of Israel, I am concerned about that. There 957 Prevention and Suppression of 2 APRIL 2014 Prevention and Suppression of 958 Terrorism Terrorism have been attacks on troops and on the pipeline between Proscription sends a strong message that terrorist Israel and Egypt, so it has attacked the military life and organisations are not tolerated in the UK and deters the economic life of Israel. I am keen to hear the them from operating here. I know that a number of Minister’s views, although I fully appreciate that there questions have been asked about the nature of any are restrictions on what he can say. Do the Government activity that those groups may undertake in the UK. feel that there is a specific threat against the Israeli Unfortunately I am unable to comment on intelligence embassy or Israeli interests here in London and elsewhere matters but it is important to underline the point that in the United Kingdom? In fairness, the same thing the proscription regime is intended to deter activity in probably applies to Egypt as well. Will he tell us as this country. much as he can about the exchange of information and Fifty two international and 14 Northern Ireland-related intelligence that clearly has to take place? The right terrorist organisations are already proscribed. To give a hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) said that sense of the enforcement regime that has sat alongside Tunisia was not aware of the proscription that is proposed that, I point out that, between 2001 and the end of March today. There must be proscription, yes, but we also need 2013, 32 people have been charged with proscription-related to make sure that intelligence exchange takes place, offences as a primary offence in Great Britain, and given the clear threat to middle east peace. 16 have been convicted. On Al Muribitun, the explanatory memorandum The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentions at the bottom of page 2 the merger of two asked about Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis. As I indicated, that al-Qaeda groups in Mali and Algeria. This issue is very group has claimed responsibility for a number of cross- real to us in Northern Ireland because of the dissident border attacks against Israel. That gives him some sense republican attacks that have taken place. According to of its activity. security information and intelligence information that Another question asked was why now, rather than at we have received and are aware of, the dissident republicans a different time. Decisions on whether and when to have very close contacts with al-Qaeda and with the proscribe an organisation are taken after extensive Taliban, but particularly al-Qaeda, in relation to the consideration and in the light of a full assessment of all supply of weapons and of terrorist expertise regarding available information. It is important that decisions the creation of bombs. The bomb attack on a Police have a robust evidence base, do not have an adverse Service of Northern Ireland Land Rover on the Falls impact on any ongoing investigations and support other road just two weeks ago involved a specific type of members of the international community in the global bomb that has been used by al-Qaeda in its attacks in fight against terrorism. Those factors often sit within the middle east. All the indications are that there are our thinking. There is a statutory test that needs to be close links between al-Qaeda and dissident republicans. met in connection with a decision to proscribe. That poses a threat to us in the United Kingdom of The right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Will the Minister Vaz) asked about speaking to parent countries when an comment on that, as far as he is able to, in his response? order is laid. There may be discussions in advance of It seems to us in Northern Ireland that dissident laying an order, and some groups are nominated for republicans are focusing on attacks on members of the proscription by the parent country, to use that terminology. security forces, both in uniform and at home. The Ultimately, however, decisions have to be taken according sophistication of weaponry and of the bomb attacks to the national security interests of this country and would indicate that there is that close relationship I those of our citizens overseas. Although I acknowledge mentioned. When the Minister responds, I feel it is the right hon. Gentleman’s point, that is what must important that he offers the House and all Members for always drive our consideration. Therefore, I would not Northern Ireland constituencies assurance that everything want to be bound in all circumstances. Even so, careful is being done to combat that strong relationship. consideration is given to the matters. All the intelligence points us towards there being a The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Kingston relationship between al-Qaeda and the organisations upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), asked about social listed in the order—certainly the second one. How will media. I can update the House that since 2010 the our relationship with other countries such as Israel, counter terrorism internet referral unit has taken down Egypt, Tunisia and Lebanon be affected? The second more than 29,000 pieces of illegal terrorist material organisation listed has specifically targeted Christians from the internet. I underline the fact that any online in Beirut, and the Lebanese Government and army have activity by the three groups under consideration, including responded. Again, we see specific attacks on people to Facebook pages and Twitter accounts, has been referred whom many of us would feel that we owe some support, to CTIRU. If it is assessed as illegal—there is a legal test including the Christians in Lebanon. that has to be met—CTIRU will flag it directly to I look forward to the Minister’s response to those few Facebook and Twitter for removal. points. I reassure the hon. Lady that we continue to have discussions with the industry and I take the issue extremely 4.46 pm seriously. As the right hon. Member for Leicester East James Brokenshire: I thank all right hon. and hon. will attest, I also told the Home Affairs Committee, Members who have taken part in this short debate this when we touched on social media, that we are considering afternoon. I am pleased to note that their contributions whether a code of conduct and other, similar measures have supported assessment of the Home Secretary and would be appropriate in order to ensure an effective myself that Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis, Al Murabitun and response. Ansar al Sharia-Tunisia should all be added to the list As I said during the previous proscription debate, of proscribed organisations in schedule 2 to the Terrorism the Government do not intend to set a time limit on Act 2000. proscription. We consider the existing de-proscription 959 Prevention and Suppression of 2 APRIL 2014 Prevention and Suppression of 960 Terrorism Terrorism [James Brokenshire] country, but much of the material is hosted overseas. Some of the steps taken in and consideration given to mechanism provided by the Terrorism Act 2000 to be combating child sexual exploitation imagery—ensuring sufficient. The legislation allows de-proscription to that it is more effectively filtered and blocked—is learning be considered on receipt of an application setting out that can be taken forward and applied in this area. That the grounds on which it is being made. Any application theme very much underpinned the recommendations will be considered by the Home Secretary, in accordance of the extremism taskforce. We are continuing to do with the Act. In my opening speech, I set out some of that work. the detail on the time limits, the processes and procedures and the consideration given in that regard. I hope that Diana Johnson: To return to the issue of Hizb ut-Tahrir, when the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North was the Prime Minister rash to promise that he would examines Hansard tomorrow, she will see that I have ban it? set out the process and how it is intended to operate. Any information provided as part of a de-proscription James Brokenshire: The Prime Minister was very application is given a number of statutory protections clear in underlining the concern about that group. As so that people should be able to come forward if appropriate. I have said, we continue to be concerned about that Hizb ut-Tahrir has been mentioned in this and a organisation, which is why we continue to monitor its number of previous debates. It is not currently proscribed activities. I have already told the House that the Government in the UK. Proscription can be considered only when obviously have to be cognisant of the statutory tests in the Home Secretary believes that terrorism, as defined looking at all the evidence and deciding whether tests by the Terrorism Act 2000, is a concern. That statutory are satisfied. We do not comment on which organisations test needs to be satisfied in order to bring a proscription continue to be under review for proscription, so I will motion—an application order—before this House. The not be led down that path, but we have to be satisfied Government continue to have significant concerns about on the clear statutory tests in introducing an order in Hizb ut-Tahrir, and we will continue to monitor its this House. activities very closely. Indeed, individual members of Another issue relates to groups changing their name. Hizb ut-Tahrir are, of course, subject to the general Section 3(6) of the 2000 Act allows the Home Secretary, criminal law. We will seek to ensure that Hizb ut-Tahrir by an order subject to the negative resolution procedure, and similar groups cannot operate without challenge in to specify an alternative name for a proscribed organisation. public places in this country. We keep under close review whether organisations are The hon. Lady highlighted the issue of university seeking to use an alias. We have used that mechanism to campuses. Very good work has been undertaken with introduce orders to add other names of proscribed universities, the National Union of Students and others. organisations. I underline that the use of an alternative Those of our regional Prevent co-ordinators who are name that is not listed does not prevent the police and focused on the university sector are providing good the Crown Prosecution Service from taking action against advice, information and knowledge to establishments an individual for proscription offences. Such action is and institutions in order better to support their work in based on an assessment made by the police and the understanding who may be coming to speak on a university CPS. campus and use their accommodation and facilities. We I have commented on de-proscription. The right hon. have also been supporting the Department for Business, Member for Leicester East has highlighted the LTTE—the Innovation and Skills in important work to ensure that Tamil Tigers—in the past. He congratulated me on my universities focus on any relevant activities. current role and the work in which I am engaged, and now that he is back in his place I want to recognise the Keith Vaz: It is really important that the issue of the many jobs that he does as an MP and Chair of the internet has been raised by both Front Benchers. The Select Committee—it does a broad spread of work in Home Affairs Committee recently visited the headquarters my areas of responsibility and other areas—and he is of Google—I do not know whether the Minister has involved in other activities. I certainly congratulate him been there—to look at the work it is undertaking and on the many jobs that he holds. He has raised the issue the co-operation between the Home Office and the of de-proscription as Chair of the Select Committee, as internet service providers that enables us to monitor well as in his capacity as a Member of Parliament. We very carefully those who wish to use the internet in judge that the responsibility for it is as I explained in order to prosecute inappropriate activity. relation to the de-proscription process.

James Brokenshire: The right hon. Gentleman was Keith Vaz: The Minister is so kind and I do not want not in his place when I touched on that issue a few this to turn into a love-in—after all, we are talking moments ago. He will know that I mentioned it in my about terrorism—but may I point out that all those jobs evidence to his Select Committee, which has recently are unpaid, apart from that of being an MP? had a session with Google. I recognise the Select Committee’s work to support community groups to James Brokenshire: I would never imply otherwise. harness social media and other technologies more effectively I merely highlight the enormous breadth of the right to ensure that there is a full and informed debate on the hon. Gentleman’s work and the importance of the internet, not one simple narrative. Select Committee’s work. On that positive note— I have highlighted the work of the counter terrorism internet referral unit, as well as our more general work Mr Speaker: Order. I think that the Minister is suggesting and ongoing dialogue with the industry about what that the right hon. Gentleman is multifaceted, ubiquitous further steps can be taken. The CTIRU has reach in this and selfless. Is that what he is saying? 961 Prevention and Suppression of 2 APRIL 2014 Prevention and Suppression of 962 Terrorism Terrorism James Brokenshire: I could not come up with a more Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): On a point of order, eloquent description, so I will not tread on that territory. Mr Speaker. I am very grateful for your ruling and for the speed with which it was delivered, given the urgency The agreement of the House that the three organisations of the matter. Thank you. should be proscribed under the relevant legislation sends a strong message in respect of those groups and underlines PETITION our focus on securing this country from the threat of terrorism. I therefore commend the order to the House. On-shore Wind Farm Developments in Winterton, North Lincolnshire Question put and agreed to 5.2 pm Resolved, Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): The people That the Terrorism Act 2000 (Proscribed Organisations) (Amendment) Order 2014, which was laid before this House on of the East Riding of Yorkshire and north Lincolnshire 31 March, be approved. have taken their fair share of wind turbines over the past few years, and we continue to consider all applications sensibly. However, I have received a petition on behalf of residents in the Winterton area who are concerned Mr Speaker: I have given further consideration to the about the proposed Ironstone Quarry wind farm, to point of order that was made by the right hon. Member which I am also heavily opposed. for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) earlier this afternoon. I The petition states: realise that the question he raised deserves an urgent response, given that the deportation of the young woman The Petition of members of the Winterton Against Inappropriate is imminent. Turbines group, Declares that the Petitioners believe that action must be taken This House does not interfere with the due process of to address the cumulative impact of on-shore wind farm developments law. It is not a contempt of the House for the Administration in the area around the North Lincolnshire settlements of Winterton, to continue a legal process, even when there is a possibility Burton Upon Stather, West Halton and Coleby. that it will clash with the wishes of a Select Committee. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons Ultimately, it is not for the Chair but for the House to recognise that the latest development to enter the planning appeals decide questions of privilege and contempt. That said, process, three turbines at the Ironstone Quarry site at Winterton which would take the total number of built, consented or planned if the right hon. Gentleman wishes to pursue that line, industrial wind turbines in the immediate area around the town to there are established ways of doing so after the fact, if over 60, with many more in the wider area, is a step too far. In need be. To put it simply, if he is alleging that there has particular, we call on the Secretary of State for Communities and been a breach of privilege or a contempt of the House, Local Government to recover this appeal to ensure that the our process requires that he write to me to make that correct weight is placed on the key issues of landscape, heritage allegation. I would then consider whether the issue assets and cumulative impact. should be given precedence in the deliberations of the And the Petitioners remain, etc. House. I hope that that is helpful. [P001341] 963 2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 964

LGBT Rights (Uganda) that LGBT people face every day? If we monitor and publicise such abuses, we might shine a light on them Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House and prevent them from happening at all. do now adjourn.—(Harriett Baldwin.) Unfortunately, many people are at serious risk of attack, and one reason for that is the actions of the 5.4 pm tabloid newspaper, Red Pepper. It recently published the Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): Thank you, names of “200 Top Homos”—that was the headline—many Mr Speaker, for granting this important and timely with photographs, including of Frank Mugisha. I have debate. already made it clear in a recent Westminster Hall debate that my blood ran cold when I saw that report While England celebrated its first same-sex marriages because I fear that history might repeat itself. Three over the weekend, including that of a former constituent years ago another awful Ugandan tabloid, Rolling Stone, of mine, Peter McGraith, who was among the first to published a similar list, which included the name of marry in the early hours of Saturday morning, scenes of SMUG’s leader at the time, David Kato. Rolling Stone jubilation of a different kind in Uganda made me feel decided to out gay Ugandans, and in the process it physically sick. Parades have been taking place to celebrate deliberately stoked twisted vigilantism that led ultimately the passing of the Anti-Homosexuality Act; to celebrate to the murder of David Kato. that the human rights of Ugandans are being undermined because they happen to be gay in a country determined The David Cairns Foundation, set up in memory of to regress legislation relating to homosexuality. It is my predecessor chair of the all-party group on HIV and almost laughable that those celebrations are continuing AIDS, has provided immediate financial assistance for in the streets of Kampala in the same week as the Equal a limited number of at-risk individuals to get to a safe Opportunities Tribunal opened in that city to great place in Uganda following the outbreak of violence. I fanfare. Its launch press release claims: believe that this could be expanded at a very low cost. It “The Tribunal will handle complaints related to discrimination is more than the David Cairns Foundation can afford, and marginalisation to ensure that everybody is treated equally but a fund could provide an emergency phone line, regardless of their sex, age, race, colour, ethnic origin, tribe, birth, transport and safe accommodation to rent in emergencies. religion, health status, social or economic standing, political SMUG and other LGBT organisations have set up the opinion and disability.” Defenders Protection Initiative in Uganda, to protect While I hope that that new institution does much to those at immediate risk of violence and abuse. eradicate intolerance in Uganda, those of us in the We are currently drafting a proposal to maintain this Chamber will notice one glaring omission: sexuality. As potentially life-saving work, and I understand that it hon. Members will know, President Museveni signed will be submitted to the UK Government imminently. It the Anti-Homosexuality Act into law five weeks ago, would cost about £200,000 to implement, and would and its impact has already been felt by Ugandans, even require technical support to maintain as an emergency before the abhorrent law has been enforced. It has been service. Will the Government consider making available signed into law by the President, which technically funds to provide emergency security and protection for means that it can be fully implemented at any time, those at risk? Will they consider seriously supporting although no one has been arrested yet. Convention the initiative if a full proposal is submitted in the very means that the new law should now be gazetted—or near future? Will the Minister join me in condemning published—in order formally to tell the nation about it, Red Pepper for publishing names and putting people in but that is not absolutely, legally necessary, leading to direct danger? Will the Government consider a travel confusion in the country. ban for the staff of both Red Pepper and Rolling Stone. A legal petition has been submitted to the constitutional This was widely called for in recent weeks, as it was court in Uganda, with MP Fox Odoi-Oywelowo and when Rolling Stone published names. leading activist Frank Mugisha, who is known to many There have been calls for travel bans for those actively of us in this House, among the petitioners. The petition engaged in promoting hatred of homosexuals in Uganda. states that the Anti-Homosexuality Act is in direct I discussed this recently with Fox Odoi-Oywelowo, an contravention of the Ugandan constitution. Unfortunately MP who has been very brave in speaking out against the the petition cannot delay the enforcement of the law, Act. He is one of only two Members of the Ugandan but the legal challenge is extremely significant and I Parliament to do so. He said to me: hope it is successful. In the meantime, LGBT people in Uganda are facing increased risk of violence and “Hatemongers shouldn’t roam the world unchecked, unrestrained.” persecution every single day. I completely agree. The UK Government have a good The brave non-governmental organisation, Sexual track record in preventing those who preach hatred Minorities Uganda—or SMUG, as it is widely known—has from having the privilege of visiting our country. For informed me that it knows of more than 40 violent instance, last year Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer, attacks on LGBT people in Uganda since the law was the anti-Islamic US bloggers, were excluded from visiting passed in December, including at least one murder. Britain. However, SMUG does not have the resources to monitor In a little more than three months’ time, I will be that rise adequately. The monitoring and reporting of welcoming visitors from all over the world to my home human rights has been a crucial and integral part of the city of Glasgow for the Commonwealth games. I roles of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the particularly look forward to welcoming the Ugandan Department for International Development over the delegation, as the country is so close to my heart. years. Will the Government undertake human rights However, I would not be comfortable welcoming people monitoring in Uganda to document the violence and who have been preaching hatred and peddling homophobic terror that I think constitutes the human rights abuses nonsense in Uganda, and I think the vast majority of 965 LGBT Rights (Uganda)2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 966

Scots and Brits agree with me. Glasgow will have a Pride Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): I understand that the House as part of its celebrations of the Commonwealth World Bank has conducted a study of the economic games, and I am very proud of that. Will the Minister effects of discrimination in foreign countries. I am told say whether the Government are considering travel that the sum effect of the discrimination that is driving bans for those found to be making hate speeches against multinationals away from countries where there are the LGBT community in Uganda and in other countries? such laws has been a reduction of up to 1.6% in GDP. I Will the Minister share with the House whether the UK do not have the references, but this is a straightforward Government are considering any other sanctions following economic argument: what is being done in Uganda is the passing of the anti-homosexuality Act? absolutely not in its own economic interest.

Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): Does Pamela Nash: I do not have the figures to hand either, my hon. Friend think that the Ugandan law poses a but I have no doubt that the hon. Gentleman, who is threat to LGBT visitors to Uganda from the UK? showing great interest, respect and dedication in relation to these issues, is right. I am sure that the public will Pamela Nash: I thank my hon. Friend for raising that soon correct us on Twitter if that is not the case. point, which is one of the few not in my speech—I I should like to hear from the Minister whether the apologise for the length of my speech. I have raised that Foreign Secretary intends to raise at the EU-Africa point with the Government. I agree that there is a risk summit in Brussels next week the issue of travel bans, to LGBT visitors from throughout the world to Uganda. sanctions or any other action against countries and I understand that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office individuals who have shown themselves to be homophobic has changed its advice to travellers from Britain, but it in recent months, and whether he will be advocating to would be helpful to hear reassurance from the Minister other Governments travel bans or any other action in on protection and support in Uganda for British LGBT relation to those who preach hatred. people visiting or working in the country. I must now put on my all-party group chair hat. I chair the all-party parliamentary group on HIV and Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab): AIDS, and I want to say something about the problems I apologise for being late, Mr Speaker. I had duties in that the Ugandan legislation will cause to people with Westminster Hall. HIV. The HIV epidemic began 30 years ago, and Lake Is my hon. Friend aware that many Commonwealth Victoria was its epicentre at that time. It then became countries have dubious laws—to put it mildly—on LGBT the epicentre of the response, and there was great rights? Does she agree that the Government should be success in preventing HIV transmission in Uganda, but doing more in relation to the Commonwealth? today, sadly, Uganda is the only country in Africa where HIV rates are increasing, and the Anti-Homosexuality Act will not help at all. Pamela Nash: I thank my hon. Friend for that point. In a recent Westminster Hall debate to celebrate Uganda’s health Minister, Dr Rugunda, has claimed Commonwealth day, we discussed how we could strengthen that the Act will not affect the fight against HIV and our relationship with the Commonwealth and use every will not prevent men who have sex with men from lever at our disposal to ensure that we get that message seeking testing and treatment, but I do not see how that across. A key way of doing that and influencing our can be the case. The Act criminalises just knowing that friends overseas is by implementing the Commonwealth someone is taking part in charter. “homosexual behaviour and related practices”, It thus threatens to divide or imprison families, and will Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): cause men who have sex with men to fear visiting health I, too, apologise for being a few minutes late for this professionals in case they are turned over to the authorities. important debate. They will not accept that reassurance from a Minister who has just passed such a draconian law against them My hon. Friend has mentioned the question of travel and their community. to countries such as Uganda which have such a terrible record on LGBT rights. Is not a real issue for businesses I consider the Act to be, quite simply, a violation of that want to trade and engage with those countries the human rights of the Ugandan people. It contradicts having to decide whom to send there? They may either Uganda’s constitution, which states: be putting people in danger or discriminating against “All persons are equal before and under the law in all spheres the LGBT community. of political, economic, social and cultural life and in every other respect and shall enjoy equal protection of the law.” Pamela Nash: I agree, and that point has been raised Unfortunately, the LGBT community in Uganda no with me by businesses and non-governmental organisations. longer has equal protection under the law. In fact it is In recent weeks, I have been speaking to businesses now criminalised. The message being sent out is that working both in Uganda and more widely. I shall say LGBT people are worth less than the rest of the population, more later about some other countries that are implementing and this gives licence for all sorts of further discrimination. similar legislation as we speak. I chair a group that is I now want to turn to the matter of LGBT Ugandans organising visits to certain countries, and we are looking who are leaving Uganda. Frank Mugisha said in a at visa applications and online biographies of Members recent interview that he was one of only about 20 out of both Houses. Given that some of them are gay, we gay men in Uganda. I find that figure astonishing, but must consider whether they will be at risk if they visit given the information we are hearing about it is not a those countries, and we must think about what we should surprise. The fact, however, that only 20 are out in an do to protect our own colleagues in such circumstances. entire country and that everyone is leaving is shocking. 967 LGBT Rights (Uganda)2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 968

[Pamela Nash] supported the Bill. Has the Minister discussed this expenditure with his colleagues at DFID? Can he explain I want to raise the case of Jackie Nanyonjo, who how this happened, and what measures are being taken sought asylum here in the UK as a Ugandan lesbian. to ensure that never again will UK taxpayers’ money be She was deported after the UK Border Agency reportedly spent on campaigning against human rights? May we told her there was not enough evidence to prove she was also have a reassurance today that money is not being gay. It has been reported that during her removal from spent on any other organisations in Uganda that promote the UK in January last year she sustained injuries when this Bill, or on organisations in any other countries that struggling with four Reliance guards escorting her on a are campaigning against LGBT rights and human rights flight to Uganda on behalf of the UKBA. When she more generally? was handed over to the Ugandan authorities upon This DFID funding was funnelled through Uganda’s arrival at Entebbe airport, she was detained for hours democratic governance facility, which is also funded by without medical attention and when her family arrived the EU and six other European countries. Will the she was in severe pain and was vomiting blood. Because Minister ask the Foreign Secretary to raise this issue of the nature of her case with UKBA and her removal with his counterparts at the EU-Africa summit, and and the handing over of her to the authorities, her review expenditure and support to organisations that sexuality was exposed in Uganda and she and her have been actively promoting the Anti-Homosexuality family felt unable to seek medical treatment when she Act? was allowed to go home as that would have put them in serious danger. Jackie died at home two months after Sadly, Uganda is not the only country with anti- this incident. This is not acceptable and it is not unique. gay legislation, as has been mentioned in interventions. I fear that we are on the brink of many countries While I obviously understand that the Government intensifying their anti-homosexuality legislation. According will have big concerns about asylum seekers claiming to the Human Dignity Trust, as of 2014, more than 80 they are gay even though they are not in order to gain jurisdictions, including some 80% of the 33 Commonwealth leave to remain, I have to ask the Minister what discussions countries, have existing laws criminalising private consensual his Department has had with the Home Office on its sexual conduct between adults of the same sex, making policy of granting asylum to LGBT people from Uganda the expression of their identity illegal and punishable by and other countries with homophobic legislation, and imprisonment and sometimes even death. The most whether this policy has changed given the real threat to notable cases include Nigeria, which signed a new anti-gay the lives of LGBT activists in Uganda and other countries law in January modelled on the Uganda Bill. Earlier in which this level of state-sponsored homophobia is this month, it was reported that four men aged between rapidly rising? 20 and 22 had been convicted of homosexual conduct The final major area I want to cover is the current under Sharia law. They were whipped publicly as support for related projects in Uganda. The Under-Secretary punishment in an Islamic court in northern Nigeria. of State for International Development said to the They were among dozens caught in a wave of arrests House and in private meetings recently that DFID is after Nigeria passed the Same Sex Marriage (Prohibition) undertaking a full review of expenditure in Uganda Act in January. following the passing of the Anti-Homosexuality Act, We have also heard reports that the majority leader in and I agree that that is necessary. The total expenditure Kenya’s national assembly has described homosexuality must be protected and must definitely not be cut, but we as a problem in Kenya on the same scale as terrorism, must ensure it is spent wisely, and perhaps is used for and suggested that it should be handled in the same the protection of people who may not be getting protection way. There is also a copycat private member’s Bill of from anyone else at the moment. the Uganda Bill making its way through the Kenyan I am concerned that, as far as I am aware, no details Parliament. of this review have been published. I was also concerned Ethiopia is heading in the same direction. Several to learn that the only resource that has been dedicated sources have reported that legislators there are expecting to this important task is 10% of the time of a single civil to pass into law a Bill that would make same-sex acts a servant. I do not think that commitment is enough for non-pardonable offence. Recently, India took the retrograde such an important task. Can the Minister confirm that step of reversing a landmark 2009 Delhi high court this is indeed the case, and will he share with us some order that had decriminalised homosexual acts. This details about the review and when we might expect its was a major blow to human rights in India and further findings to be published? demonstrates this dangerous trend. The many people I was also concerned that the Under-Secretary of who came out as a result of homosexuality being legalised State for International Development confirmed to me in India now face the prospect of being out in a country recently in response to a written question that DFID where their sexuality has been deemed illegal. has been financially contributing to the Inter-Religious The UK has long been and still is a proud advocate Council of Uganda. This organisation has been extremely of human rights, and we are strongly pushing the rights vocal and public in its support of the Anti-Homosexuality of women and girls in our foreign diplomacy and Act. Indeed, Church leaders were out in force at the international development programme. I commend the parades at the weekend and the recent public celebrations Government for this work and for speaking out on the of the passing of the Act. I also have concerns about human rights of LGBT people, but I do not think those DFID’s financial support for the Ugandan Parliament’s rights have been given the same prominence in international Committee on Human Rights Affairs, which sat back relations as those of women and girls. Despite the and offered no scrutiny whatsoever of a Bill that was Foreign Secretary having spoken out repeatedly and blatantly in breach of the human rights of Ugandan strongly against the Anti-Homosexuality Act when it people, and the Members of Parliament on the Committee was eventually passed, it appeared that little action was 969 LGBT Rights (Uganda)2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 970 taken. The most obvious action would have been to call stated position of the United Nations, and there has the Ugandan high commissioner in London to the now been a Supreme Court ruling that people should be Foreign Office, but it took weeks before this was done able to expect to live their lives as they are. Those are and it only happened after I raised the issue in a therefore the standards that people expect when they Westminster Hall debate and tabled a written question. claim asylum and freedom from persecution. The Some Back Benchers and Front Benchers have been disgraceful stories of how the UK Border Agency has cautious about talking about this issue in this place, for handled some of these cases in the past few years are fear of being accused of imperialism—of cultural export. now, happily, a matter of public record and have caused However, this is not the west versus the rest of the the Home Secretary to take this extremely welcome world: this is good versus ignorance. It is not homosexuality action. that the west has exported to Uganda, but homophobia. I put it to the Minister of State, Foreign and Friends in Uganda, including Frank Mugisha, have Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member told me that homophobia was not a big issue in Uganda for East Devon (Mr Swire), that our failure and the 20 years ago. Being gay was not widely accepted, but it wider failure of the global community to prevent this was a part of life there, and hate speech was not. legislation from getting on to the statute book in Uganda Similarly, campaigning against the LGBT community will cause a wave of people who are desperate to escape was not an issue. If we fast-forward to the past five persecution to come here, and that we have a duty to years, we can see that the homophobic elements of the give them refuge, as we have done in the past for people US evangelical movement have been proactively stoking who have been persecuted in other ways. That such revulsion towards the LGBT community.Pastors including people will come to the United Kingdom and other the infamous Scott Lively have toured Uganda and had parts of the world to escape persecution will in part be a a major impact on public reaction to homosexuality. consequence of our failure as a global community to They have managed to distort public opinion and have prevent this legislation from being passed, and of our now linked homosexuality to paedophilia, as is made failure to assist countries that already have such legislation clear in the wording of the Anti-Homosexuality Act. to get rid of it or not to enforce it, as happens in much I am pleading with the Government to protect those of the world. at risk of human rights abuses in Uganda by providing security and protection measures, and by undertaking Pamela Nash: It is not often I have cause to praise the suitable human rights monitoring. I ask them to use current Scottish Government in this House, but I would every lever in their power to halt this trend towards like to make hon. Members aware that they have offered regressive anti-homosexuality legislation. We have a to take any LGBT Ugandans who are claiming asylum responsibility to protect those at risk, and I ask the and have called on the UK Government to grant them Government to act quickly. asylum and send them up to Scotland.

5.30 pm Crispin Blunt: I am not entirely sure it is within the Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): I congratulate the purview of the Scottish Government to do that. Perhaps hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela Nash) on they are being a little previous in the powers they think securing this debate, and thank her for supporting me they will have. I anticipate that they will not get such when I had a debate on this subject. I further congratulate powers in September—at least I hope they will not. her on securing a slot that means we can actually debate We have had a discussion about the economic impact this matter properly. I am not sure whether you had of this law, and the hon. Lady followed up on the point something to do with that arrangement, Mr Speaker, about how a very small proportion of the work of a but I know that you are the president of the Kaleidoscope civil servant is devoted to this issue. I wish to contrast Trust, an organisation set up to support activists in that with the fact that we appear still to have a prosperity countries in which LGBT rights are oppressed. I have officer sponsored by the UK in Uganda. If the Ugandan the privilege of being the chairman of the parliamentary Government and Parliament are taking a pistol and friends of the Kaleidoscope Trust. blowing their toes off as far as their economy is concerned I salute our two parliamentary colleagues in Uganda, by passing these kinds of measures, I am slightly puzzled whom the hon. Lady knows, who have been brave as to why the UK should then think it appropriate to enough to speak out against the Anti-Homosexuality pay for a prosperity officer to be in the country to assist Act. That has been a pretty tough call for them, and it is the Ugandan Government in trying to repair some of brave of them to take that position against the overwhelming the damage they have inflicted entirely on themselves. popular and parliamentary attitude. We should register Let me now deal with the issue of travel bans by our support for them and for the position they have repeating to the Minister the message I have already taken. given in this House: at the moment, it looks as if the I want to pick up on a couple of the issues that the Government are in absolutely the right position, giving hon. Lady has raised. I welcome the review that the overtly all possible assistance, short of actual help. We Home Secretary is now undertaking of our handling of are not actually asking for changes to the amount of cases in which people have claimed asylum following money that the Department for International Development discrimination on the ground of their homosexuality. gives Uganda. We are expecting the money not to go That review is long overdue. The commitment to give anywhere near the organs of the Ugandan Government refuge to LGBT people seeking asylum from oppression and to ensure that it goes to civil society associations in their own country was in my party’s manifesto, as that are not associated with this kind of persecution or well as in that of the Liberal Democrats. Given that oppression and that do not support it. The Prime both parts of the coalition supported it, it should have Minister eloquently made the case about the effectiveness been in the programme for government. It is also the of travel bans in respect of Russia’s behaviour over 971 LGBT Rights (Uganda)2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 972

[Crispin Blunt] to understand and recognise is so filled with hatred of other people as it appears to be in Uganda. Pastor Crimea. Targeted travel bans against people who have Martin Ssempa of the Makerere Christian centre has been responsible for the promotion of this legislation been on Ugandan television to demonstrate with fruit are exactly the right policy response to bring things and vegetables how he believes that gay men and women home to the individuals who have made it part of their have sex. I am sure that that must have been particularly work to get this wretched Act on to the statute book enlightening. and to create the climate in which it is then enforced. We Pastor Solomon Male of the coalition for the ought to be in the business of stopping their travel to advancement of moral values is another strong religious the United Kingdom and, we hope, to the European voice in favour of the Act. The coalition compiled and Union, and then beginning to examine any assets they distributed to MPs a brief urging them to pass the Act. may have in the UK. Then there is the utterly disgraceful wrong of some of In the first instance, therefore, we should be considering the popular press in Uganda. What possible case can a travel ban. Mr Deputy Speaker, top of the list for a there be for allowing the senior staff of the tabloid Red travel ban is your colleague the Speaker of the Ugandan Pepper to come to the United Kingdom, particularly in Parliament, Rebecca Kadaga. She has played a leading the light of their incitement to hatred by the listing of role in the passage of this Bill through the Ugandan 200 so-called homos in Uganda? Why should Richard Parliament and its becoming an Act. The story of how Tusiime, the chief executive officer; Arinaitwe Rugyendo, she reacted to advice given in Canada is perhaps a the chief marketing officer; James Mujuni, the chief lesson that we ought to learn about how one can have commercial officer; Patrick Mugumya, the chief operations a negative impact through campaigning, but the fact is officer; Johnson Musinguzi, the chief finance officer; that even if her mind was changed in a highly negative Ben Byarabaha, the news editor; or Gazzaman Kodili, direction by people imploring her to do the right thing the deputy news editor be allowed to come to the in other parts of the world, that does not mean that she United Kingdom? They surely should be subject to a should be allowed to get away from the fact that she has travel ban. As should be the disgraceful Giles Muhame, done an absolutely evil and wrong thing to LGBT the editor-in-chief of ChimpReports, but formerly the people in Uganda and to the reputation of her country. managing editor of the weekly tabloid newspaper Rolling Rebecca Kadaga should be top of the list for a ban Stone (Uganda), which was absolutely associated with on travel to the UK, but she is closely followed by David the incitement to hatred that led to the murder of the Bahati, the Ugandan Member of Parliament who proposed Ugandan gay activist, David Kato. His murder was the original Bill in 2009—that Bill stipulated the death almost certainly a consequence of the climate of opinion penalty for homosexual acts. After the passage of the that was created by that newspaper, which called for the Bill in Parliament, he was quoted in the media as execution of gay people. saying: This is an immensely serious issue. The hon. Lady “I am glad the parliament has voted against evil. Because we referred to the regrettable tide against what had seemed are a God-fearing nation, we value life in a holistic way. It is to be a steady march of progress, enlightenment and because of those values that members of parliament passed this decency around the world. That march, which has been bill regardless of what the outside world thinks”. in progress in our own country for 50 years, was marked I think we should make it perfectly clear what the so wonderfully last weekend by the first same-sex marriages. outside world thinks, by banning his travel to the United I urge my right hon. Friend to ensure that the United Kingdom. Kingdom continues to deserve its proud reputation of Then there is Mr Simon Lekodo, the Minister of standing up for rights in this area and to find ways to Ethics and Integrity, which is amusing if one has a back up our fine words with action. black sense of humour. Mr Lekodo was sued by four brave LGBT activists, on behalf of the whole LGBT 5.44 pm community in Uganda, for interrupting and closing a capacity-building workshop in Entebbe in February Nick Herbert (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): I 2012. His extremely homophobic comments are frequently congratulate the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts quoted in the media. (Pamela Nash) on securing this debate on a good day on which we have a little more time to discuss the issue Then there is Mr Lekodo’s predecessor, Nsaba Buturo, than we might otherwise have expected. I want briefly whose strong support for the anti-homosexuality Bill to add my voice to those from all parties who have has also been widely reported. He is apparently of the expressed concern about the actions of the Ugandan view that the United Nations has a surreptitious mission Parliament in passing this appalling and repressive to impose on sovereign countries the acceptance of legislation. homosexuality. We are witnessing a tale of two worlds. In one world, Then there is the role of Stephen Tashobya, the Chair we saw last weekend the joyful sight of same-sex couples of the Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee of in this country being able to enter into marriages for the the Ugandan Parliament. It was his Committee that first time thanks to a vote in this House of Commons chaired and completed the report on the anti-homosexuality that passed that legislation by a substantial majority, Bill for the Parliament, and the Bill was passed on the while similar legislation is being passed around the basis of its findings. world—in France, in New Zealand and increasingly in Going wider than Parliament, we have the people, the the states of the United States of America—where a so-called Christians, who created the climate under majority of the public is now in favour of such progressive which this wretched legislation was passed. I am not legislation. In another, less admirable, world, not only sure that the version of Christianity that I would want have some countries retained repressive regimes towards 973 LGBT Rights (Uganda)2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 974 homosexuals and other minorities but others are engaged Chi Onwurah: The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful in passing populist and discriminatory legislation of the and important point, which was also made by my hon. kind we have seen in Uganda. This is not just evil Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela homophobia that is making people’s lives a misery and, Nash), about the need for every one of us to be able to in some cases, leading not only to the repression of gay stand up for these values. Does he agree that just as people but to their deaths. It is state-sponsored homophobia, many countries in Africa stood up and condemned and that is what makes it so ugly. apartheid in South Africa, and stood up and condemned I want to make two broad points. First, Uganda’s the civil rights position and the Jim Crow laws in decision followed hard on the heels of Nigeria’s. The America in the ’60s, it is for us also to stand up and Nigerian President, having sat on a similar piece of condemn where we see that evil is happening in those legislation to Uganda’s for some time, suddenly passed countries? what is called—paradoxically, after we passed our Bill to enable same-sex marriage—the Same Sex Marriage Nick Herbert: I welcome the hon. Lady’s intervention. (Prohibition) Act, to which the hon. Member for Airdrie She makes a powerful point. That must, of course, be and Shotts referred. It not only prohibits same-sex right. In the same way that it was right to condemn marriages in Nigeria but outlaws any public expression those regimes and that evil, it is right to do so now. of affection between gay people, with extraordinarily The list of countries that continue to foster these severe sentences. There is a maximum 10-year prison repressive regimes is much longer than the list that has sentence for those who commit that offence. Imagine been read out this evening. There are still countries all the chilling and repressive effect that that criminal around the world that have these regimes. We have not legislation has on young gay people in Nigeria today. talked at all about Russia and the despicable link that My second point is that this legislation is being President Putin made recently between homosexuality passed by Commonwealth countries, Nigeria and Uganda. and paedophilia, and the way in which gay people in Just over a year ago, those countries signed up to the Russia are being brutalised while the authorities turn a Commonwealth charter. Article 2 of the charter takes a blind eye. The Channel 4 “Dispatches” programme stand against discrimination and article 4 also prohibits made a powerful documentary in February which showed legislation of this kind. From memory, I think it talks quite horrific scenes of young people being physically about “mutual understanding and respect”. How can assaulted by gangs on the streets and the police merely those countries sign up to the Commonwealth charter turning a blind eye. and so quickly pass legislation in flagrant breach of it? Do not let us make the mistake of thinking that this What does the Commonwealth stand for, and what is is just Uganda, or just Nigeria, and a minority of the point of its charter unless it is willing to take a countries. I regret that it is not. This is a tale of two stance and say that this is not acceptable? worlds. This House of Commons knows which world It is very easy to be cowed in this place and the west we belong to and which side we belong to, and we by the view that, as the hon. Lady so eloquently put it, should not be afraid to stand up and say, “Yes, we too to condemn such legislation is to engage in a form of made these mistakes. We too once had this kind of neo-colonialism and that it is not our place to lecture legislation.” We had legislation in the not so distant past other countries about their morals and how they do that was repressive of gay people, and we learnt from things in their society. If we took that view, we would those mistakes. We admit that we got things wrong and silence ourselves for ever as regards our ability to condemn we urge others to understand the fundamental importance human rights abuses that we consider completely of these universal human values and why it is wrong for unjustifiable. We have to take a stand in the west. Yes, it them, too, to discriminate against minorities, including should be an intelligent and sensitive stand and we gay people. should be guided by courageous activists on the ground, such as Frank Mugisha, who tell us what will and what 5.52 pm will not help, but we should not be cowed from speaking out about such legislation. If we are, that is the same as The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth seeing a child being bullied on the street and saying that Office (Mr Hugo Swire): I am extremely grateful to the it is better to pass by and ignore the bullying because hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela Nash) for otherwise we might make the bullies worse and they securing this debate. I am aware from having done my might do it again. No, we have to take a stance and research that she has a great affinity with Uganda and intervene. has family and friends there, and she has often visited, including as a Commonwealth Parliamentary Association The Government have rightly taken a stance and member. should continue to do so. The Commonwealth should take a stance and should continue to do so. Individual Members on both sides of the House share a Members of Parliament should feel emboldened to commitment to protecting minority rights, not only in stand up and look Members of Parliament in Uganda Uganda but all around the world. As we have just heard and Nigeria and now Ethiopia in the eye and say, “This from my right hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and is wrong. What you are doing is wrong.” We are not South Downs (Nick Herbert), alas, the lack of such neo-colonialists for standing up and saying it is wrong. protection it is all too prevalent and widespread around We are subscribers to the universal declaration of human the world. rights. We are subscribers to fundamental values that The depth of feeling on the issue is reflected in the say that people shall not be discriminated against because way it has been the subject now of two debates in the of the colour of their skin, their sexual identity or their House in as many months. Regrettably, other ministerial sexuality. We subscribe to these universal human values commitments prevent the Minister with responsibility and everybody should adhere to those standards. for Africa, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and 975 LGBT Rights (Uganda)2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 976

[Mr Hugo Swire] certainly want to look at any project designed to protect the LGBT community very closely and in great detail Skegness (Mark Simmonds), from being here today. if it is presented to us. We will continue to hold the But in the debate on 12 February he emphasised that authorities to their assurances to investigate any attacks combating violence and discrimination against LGBT fully and to urge the Ugandan Government to protect communities forms an integral part of our tireless efforts all their citizens from discrimination. The hon. Lady to protect and promote human rights internationally. also talked about monitoring human rights abuses. We We share the concern about the discriminatory legislation have a human rights report, of course, but we will passed by the Ugandan Parliament late last year and certainly consider her very relevant point and see what signed into law by President Museveni on 24 February. more we can do. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary was clear in We have listened carefully to calls, in this debate his statement that same day that the United Kingdom and elsewhere, for us to consider sanctions against strongly opposes discrimination on any grounds and those who have supported the anti-homosexuality questions the compatibility of the anti-homosexuality law. The United Kingdom has already ended budget Act with Uganda’s constitution and international treaty support payments to the Ugandan Government following obligations, which I understand are being looked at in concerns about corruption last year. Our development that country at the moment. programme to Uganda goes through a variety of channels, We have left the Ugandan Government in absolutely including private sector organisations, non-governmental no doubt about how strongly we feel about this issue, as organisations and multilateral agencies. As my hon. well as the significant damage done to Uganda’s reputation Friend the Minister for Africa said in the debate on internationally. My hon. Friend the Minister for Africa 12 February, we do not believe that imposing travel raised the issue with the Ugandan Foreign Minister on bans or any other sanctions on supporters of the Bill 28 January, with the Deputy Foreign Minister on would be effective in promoting a rethink. 13 February and with the Ugandan high commissioner It is worth bearing in mind that there is widespread on 18 March. He hopes to meet the Ugandan Foreign support for the legislation in Uganda. We must therefore Minister at the EU-Africa summit in Brussels, which be mindful of the requests made to the international began today. Our high commissioner to Uganda discussed community not to make well-intentioned public statements the issue at length with President Museveni on 11 March. and threats that many activists in Uganda fear would be In recent weeks she has also met the Ugandan Minister counter-productive and likely to worsen the situation of for Justice, the Inspector General of Police, the Foreign LGBT individuals or harm efforts to promote LGBT Minister and the Deputy Foreign Minister to seek rights. That is also our assessment. In that regard, I note assurances on the protection of individuals and the that the guidelines issued on 3 March by the Ugandan Civil impact of the legislation. Society Coalition on Human Rights and Constitutional We are also making representations through the Law, which includes LGBT groups, including Sexual EU. At a political dialogue meeting on 28 March, the Minorities Uganda, do not call for travel bans or other EU called on Uganda to repeal the anti-homosexuality sanctions. Act, to reconfirm its commitment to human rights and to ensure protection and equal treatment under the law Crispin Blunt: It is a bit strange, then, that the chairman for citizens. We fully endorse those calls. Ugandan of Sexual Minorities Uganda, who has been here Ministers present included the Ministers for Foreign and has met my hon. Friend’s colleagues, including Affairs, Finance, Planning and Economic Development, the Foreign Secretary—we are profoundly grateful to Internal Affairs, Ethics and Integrity and Information. the Foreign Secretary for giving the time to see him—has asked for these travel bans. I am not quite sure what is I join in the condemnation we have heard from hon. going on, and different interpretations appear to be Members today of the contemptible journalism, if it being placed on it. I urge my hon. Friend to take this can even be described as such, in both Red Pepper and up, because it is absolutely not the message that we are Rolling Stone. At every stage of our contact with the receiving. Ugandan authorities, they have given us assurances that their intention is not to undermine the personal security Mr Swire: It is certainly not the message that we are of the LGBT community. When we have informed the receiving. I repeat that the Ugandan Civil Society Coalition police about the persecution of individuals, they have on Human Rights and Constitutional Law, which includes responded immediately to ensure their security. However, LGBT groups, including SMUG, does not call for travel I absolutely take the point the hon. Member for Airdrie bans or other sanctions. However, I am happy to discuss and Shotts made. We will certainly want to look at any this with my hon. Friend, and the door of my hon. project designed to protect the LGBT community very Friend the Minister for Africa is open to him if he has closely and in great detail when it is presented to us. other information.

Pamela Nash: Is the Minister saying that the UK Pamela Nash: I am grateful to the Minister for being Government’s advice to LGBT people in Uganda who so generous with time; he is probably here a little later feel at risk because they are LGBT is to call the police than he expected. Let me clarify this point. There have so that they can protect them, because the police will be been calls not to implement travel bans for all Members enforcing a law that means they could be imprisoned of Parliament and all Government officials who have because they are gay? been involved, but a very specific list exists—I am sure that the hon. Member for Reigate (Crispin Blunt) and I Mr Swire: I can only explain what has happened to could share it with the Minister—of certain politicians date. I was responding to the hon. Lady’s request in the who have actively been promoting the Bill. The hon. second part of what I was saying. I repeat that we will Gentleman read out a list of those working for the 977 LGBT Rights (Uganda)2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 978 newspaper, Red Pepper, and several other activists. SMUG My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has also had previously asked that not all Government officials written to the Commonwealth secretary-general to seek and Members of Parliament be given travel bans because his support to address that worrying trend in a number that would not be helpful. of Commonwealth countries. Over the past three days I have hosted a conference Mr Swire: I commit my absent hon. Friend the Minister at Wilton Park on the future of the Commonwealth for Africa to having a meeting, at which I shall also with politicians, diplomats and civil society groups want to be present, to go through this and look at the from across its 53 countries. This morning, we invited information to which the hon. Lady alludes. the Kaleidoscope Trust to run a session on LGBT What we should be doing is to continue, first, to make rights as an integral part of the values expressed it very clear where we stand on this Bill, and on in the Commonwealth charter. My absolutely excellent discrimination and harassment against individuals on Parliamentary Private Secretary, my hon. Friend the any grounds; and, secondly, to engage with NGOs and Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), was also civil society groups on how best to support their efforts there throughout. The secretary-general’s recent statement to promote LGBT rights in Uganda—something to calling for Commonwealth values to be upheld in respect which the Government remain committed. For example, of sexual orientation and gender identity is a welcome on 11 February my hon. Friend the Minister for Africa step. met the executive director of SMUG, Dr Frank Mugisha, Let me conclude by saying that I believe the Government’s at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to hear first record on promoting LGBT rights is second to none. hand the challenges faced by the LGBT community in This week we have seen the first gay marriages in the Uganda. Dr Mugisha also met the Under-Secretary of UK take place. I am proud that last Saturday I attended State for International Development, my hon. Friend one of the first same-sex marriages in the UK, between the Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Lynne the excellent mayor of Exmouth, John Humphreys, and Featherstone), and the Minister of State, Department his long-term partner, David Marston—in fact, it is of Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. Friend possible that I can lay claim to being the first Minister the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker). to attend a same-sex marriage. On 12 March, Dr Mugisha met my right hon. Friend Before we pat ourselves on the back, however, it has the Foreign Secretary and my noble Friend Baroness taken us long time to reach this point, and we need to Warsi to discuss latest developments following the recognise that it will also take time for others. Nevertheless, introduction of the law, the LGBT community’s next universal rights, including for LGBT individuals, are step, and how we can continue to work closely together something on which we will not compromise. Free, in this even more difficult environment. These meetings tolerant and inclusive societies are better able to fulfil with, and access to, senior Ministers demonstrate just the aspirations of their people, and are more resilient how seriously the Government take this issue. and forward looking. Some work needs to be done on Our high commission in Kampala is working extremely the claims made by my hon. Friend the Member for closely with Ugandan civil society groups on the ground Reigate (Crispin Blunt) about the adverse effects on to promote inclusivity, diversity and tolerance, in GDP for countries that enact regressive legislation of co-ordination with our international partners. We have the sort we are discussing. A country that is accountable— supported training, advocacy, and legal cases related to the protection of LGBT rights, and have recently supported Pamela Nash: Will the Minister give way? a Kaleidoscope Trust project working with the LGBT community in Uganda. United Kingdom officials have Mr Swire: I was just reaching my peroration. The also engaged extensively with UK and Uganda-based hon. Lady has ruined it, but of course I will give way. NGOs, including Stonewall, the Kaleidoscope Trust and the Human Dignity Trust, to explain our approach. Pamela Nash: My deepest apologies to the Minister, Our objective is clear: to improve respect for and who has said that he was concluding. I asked specific protection of LGBT rights. That will involve long-term questions about DFID funding. I appreciate that DFID cultural change, not just legislative fixes, important as is not his Department but I have serious concerns about they are. And our focus is not only on Uganda—we are its money being spent on organisations that are promoting only too aware of countries of concern elsewhere in the the Bill in Uganda and doing other such work elsewhere. world. My right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and Will he undertake to have a conversation on that with the Foreign Secretary have therefore asked officials DFID and ask it to put that expenditure on record with across Whitehall to have a fresh look at our global an explanation? approach on LGBT rights. That review is now under way. Mr Swire: There have been a number of questions to The hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock DFID Ministers on that point. The hon. Lady will no (Sandra Osborne), who is not in her place, raised the doubt have seen those and will want to review them. If issue of the Commonwealth. Speaking as the Minister she has any remaining specific questions about particular for the Commonwealth, I am deeply concerned that aspects of DFID funding, I would advise her to raise over 40 of the 53 countries in the Commonwealth those with colleagues in that Department. continue to criminalise homosexuality, despite signing As I was saying, a country that is accountable and up to the Commonwealth charter, which, as my right treats its people with dignity is more likely to foster hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South creativity, ingenuity, economic opportunity and harmony— Downs said, includes language opposing “all forms all prerequisites for long-term stability and security, not of discrimination”. He mentioned article 4, which is least with regard to neighbouring countries. That is a about promoting mutual understanding and respect. message that the British Government will continue to 979 LGBT Rights (Uganda)2 APRIL 2014 LGBT Rights (Uganda) 980

[Mr Swire] Question put and agreed to. carry forcefully and ceaselessly around the world and 6.10 pm one that, through her eloquence and by securing tonight’s debate, the hon. Lady has helped to ensure will continue House adjourned. to be heard. 233WH 2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 234WH

I come back to anticipating and predicting problems Westminster Hall in the food system. Since 2008, there has been a 30% increase in the cost of base commodities. Over that Wednesday 2 April 2014 period, one would expect some early warning signs. We may not have expected crime, but we had to expect that something would give, because food prices in shops did [DR WILLIAM MCCREA in the Chair] not rise to the same extent as commodity prices. Given that 30% increase in commodity prices, anyone looking Elliott Review and Food Crime at the marketing of food would say that profits would [Relevant documents: Eighth Report from the Environment, have to fall, prices would have to increase, or the products Food and Rural Affairs Committee, Session 2012-13, on would have to adapt. How is a supermarket frozen Contamination of Beef Products, HC 946, and the cottage pie that was £1 five years ago still £1 today, after Government response, HC 1085; Fifth Report from the a 30% increase in base commodity prices? What is in it Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, on is probably not illegal, but it is certainly not very Food Contamination, HC 141, and the Government response, desirable, and there is no flash across the packaging HC 707; Oral Evidence reported by the Environment, saying that there is 30% less meat in it. That disconnect Food and Rural Affairs Committee, on 8 January 2014, between price rises and supermarket retail prices should on the Elliott Review, HC 953.] have created some sort of early warning signal within Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting Government. be now adjourned.—(Claire Perry.) Guy Opperman: To take the cottage pie example, 9.30 am should not the message from this debate, aside from all the points about the Elliott review and security, be that Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): It is a great we should encourage cooking in our schools, and encourage pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr McCrea, people to buy the meat from the butcher and the potato and it is also a great pleasure to see the Under-Secretary from a grocer, so that they can create a wonderful of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the cottage pie themselves, rather than buying it in Tesco or hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), other supermarkets? That must be the message. whom I have not been in a debate with since his elevation to Minister with responsibility for food. Laura Sandys: Yes. It is an incredibly important message, It was a great shock to the British people in 2013 to and I am happy to accept any invitation to have a find that our food system could be so badly infiltrated cottage pie cooked by my hon. Friend. by crime. It started to corrupt our food system, and horsemeat was introduced into our meat products. That Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): Before the hon. was shocking, because food is not just any consumer Lady accepts the cottage pie from the hon. Member for product; the public need to trust food. We need to Hexham (Guy Opperman), she might draw attention to ensure the highest standards to secure long-term stability a point that she has made before. It is all very well if in the food sector as a whole. The scandal changed food someone has a kitchen and knowledge of how to make habits. Immediately afterwards, £300 million was knocked a cottage pie, but if housing benefit rules are such that a off Tesco’s share price. Long supply chains are now seen household can have the rent paid in full but no kitchen, as serious liabilities. I hope that the Department for it can be difficult to cook a cottage pie, or anything else. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs sees the need for a much more systematic assessment and analysis of the Laura Sandys: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely food sector—not just the production side, but all its right, and he is doing extremely important work on the segments. We could have anticipated some of the problems whole issue of food poverty. In my constituency, we that we faced in the horsemeat scandal, because certain have certain areas where accommodation does not have conditions were present. cookers. Families are supplied with microwaves, which confines them to buying expensive food that is frequently Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): I congratulate my not of the greatest quality. That does not allow families hon. Friend on securing this important debate. I also to be resilient, as my hon. Friend the Member for congratulate the team behind the Elliott review, which Hexham (Guy Opperman) would like everyone to be. made helpful and important recommendations. On Tesco’s We have to look at the overall system; that is the crucial share price going down, she will be aware that local point. We need a system-based approach and policy markets and butchers enjoyed a renaissance, as people— that understands the food system in its totality. certainly in my area of Northumberland—realised that the safest, most secure and best place to buy meat was On the early warning signs of food crime, we have to the local butcher, not the supermarket. look at where the disconnects happen. We had rising commodity prices, but food prices were rising only a Laura Sandys: Absolutely. In many ways, the scandal little in the shops, so something had to give. Different rejuvenated the way we used to buy food in the high products were substituted and food crime entered the street from local suppliers. To be frank, while one trusts system. I know that the Minister is concerned about one’s local butcher, this systemic problem will face food security, but I hope it is now of much greater everyone in the food retailing sector if we do not start to importance to DEFRA as a whole, because trust, food recognise that certain characteristics are creating certain integrity and access to resources are all part of the underlying problems. Food crime has risen across Europe, wider security nexus. I hope that food security has and we have to ensure that we protect smaller retailers moved up the agenda. The National Security Council from infiltration by food crime, which can come through regard it as important: food security is one of its nine any weak link in the system. key priorities. 235WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 236WH

[Laura Sandys] Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this timely debate. Does she Food crime is not going away. In 2007, the Food agree that an innovative suggestion from the Elliott Standards Agency recorded 49 cases of food fraud, and review is that data and intelligence gathering should be by 2013 there were 1,500 cases. While horsemeat has done centrally within some independent body? While been a real problem, other forms of food crime have respecting commercial confidentiality, commercial operators come to the FSA’s attention: dyes in children’s sweets, should be asked to pool what they can, so that we can illegal and toxic vodka and dangerous health substitutes scan for problems. That would be a great and helpful that amplify diabetes. Our system in this country is innovation. particularly vulnerable because we import a lot and have long supply chains. Laura Sandys: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. That is both incumbent on the food sector and in Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): I its interests, because the horsemeat scandal has led to a congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate and major erosion of trust. wish I could stay a little longer. She outlined different I am concerned that supermarkets sometimes make forms of food crime. One form that I am particularly the excuse that they are too large to monitor their interested in is the importing of bush meat into this supply chains. We must be clear that they have a country, particularly from west Africa. Given the outbreak responsibility; if they feel that they are too large to be of the Ebola virus, should the Government not make responsible for their supply chain, we must ask whether even more effort to ensure that that food does not come they are too large to be responsible for public food and into the country? well-being. I am sure that the Minister has discussed food crime with the Minister for Policing, Criminal Laura Sandys: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend; Justice and Victims, because the problem requires Home that is absolutely crucial. I do not believe that we have Office, Europol and Interpol co-operation. We must looked at our supply chains with vulnerability in mind. consider the matter as we would other large organised We have assumed, possibly rightly, that we have a very crime problems. What has been the UK’s involvement safe food system in this country, but in certain instances in Operation Opson, the pan-European food crime and we might have devolved too much policy to the food vulnerability operation? manufacturers, producers and retailers. The Government The future is what matters, and the Elliott review will need to claim some of that policy back and to consider form a crucial part of our new armoury. What is the the strategic risks that the system faces. Minister’s response to Elliott’s first report and how will DEFRA respond to its key recommendations? In particular, Returning to the analysis of the crime, Europol states what is the Minister’s response to Elliott’s recommendation that drug gangs have now moved into food fraud. There to set up a food crime unit within the FSA? The Dutch is a lot of money in the business of fake, cheap food and have 111 staff dedicated to food crime. I hope that such drink; Europol says that fake food is a major new part a unit would be properly resourced and would have the of the underground economy. We will therefore start to capacity to enforce and investigate. President Eisenhower see more of this. I am sure that the Minister will assure said that the uninspected quickly deteriorates, so we us that DEFRA and the FSA will take the matter need a new sense of ambition in this area. extremely seriously. The drugs trade appears to be less profitable than food crime, and the risks are much In conclusion, I hope that we are not living in the lower. The penalties are fines that are merely petty cash past. Before 2008, food was cheap, but the world has or operating costs for criminals. With authorities having changed, and will change even further as food prices are downgraded their investigative capacity, criminals are expected to rise year on year. The business model wrapped even less likely to be caught. We have a fantastic food around cheap food is creaking. Now that drug dealers system and fantastic food quality in this country, but we are starting to move into our food system, I hope that are a particularly attractive and vulnerable market because the Minister will recognise that business as usual is not of our efficient but very long supply chains. Looking at good enough for our food producers and consumers. investigative powers, Holland has 111 staff dedicated to food crime, but I do not believe that this country has 9.46 am any, so we need to upgrade our investigative capacity. Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): It is a pleasure There are important questions about our food system to serve under your chairmanship, Dr McCrea. I and our expectations of the food sector. Does DEFRA congratulate the hon. Member for South Thanet (Laura believe that our cheap food system—a business model Sandys) on securing this important debate. She has that is designed around cheap food—is not vulnerable been interested in the topic for some time and we have to food crime as food prices rise globally? Has the both taken part in several debates on it. Minister met food companies to discuss their assessment of vulnerabilities? Have they communicated to the Minister I want to add my voice to those who have welcomed their internal reports on the horsemeat scandal? Some Professor Elliott’s interim report on the integrity of say that the reports were not published because some of food supply networks and his recommendations for the findings about their ability to trace the inputs into stemming the growing tide of food crime. As we have food manufacturing were so shocking. Are supermarkets heard, criminal networks increasingly see the potential and manufacturers happy to be transparent about their for what Professor Elliott describes as supply chains and prepared to be open about the increased “huge profits and low risks” risks of crime? If they co-operate and we work collectively, in the food industry. The hon. Lady said that it was now traceability and enforcement can work together, rather more profitable and considerably less risky to be involved than as two separate silos. in food fraud than in the drugs trade. The National 237WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 238WH

Audit Office reports that cases of food fraud reported you have some local authorities—like some in London—operating by local authorities have increased by two thirds since on one trading standards officer, how on earth can they possibly 2010. Results published by a number of local authorities, deal with all their demands from fraudulent activity?” including West Yorkshire, Leicester and West Sussex, Cuts to trading standards are expected to result in a fall from a survey of meat products on sale in their areas, in the number of officers to below 2,000, compared show that gross contamination of meat is widespread. with 3,000 in 2009, while the number of public analyst Leicester trading standards, for example, found that labs, where food is tested, has dropped from 15 to 11 in half of the meat products it sampled contained species the past three years. of animals not identified on the label, which is in breach In February, when I asked the Minister at Environment, of legal requirements for composition and labelling. Food and Rural Affairs questions about the shocking Some of it was probably deliberate fraud and some was West Yorkshire test results, which showed that more probably cross-contamination due to poor hygiene, but than a third of food samples were not what they claimed it is an obvious matter of concern. to be or had been mislabelled in some way, he replied Huw Watkins, who heads the intelligence hub at the that the 30% figure was Intellectual Property Office, has documented shocking “misleading, because the samples looked at were based on intelligence cases of adulterated goods seized in the UK in recent and from areas where there was greater concern in the first months, ranging from a 40-foot lorry containing over place.”—[Official Report, 13 February 2014; Vol. 575, c. 1004.] 17,000 litres of fake vodka to cases of goat’s milk I appreciate that that is a factor; it was a risk-based adulterated with cow’s milk, which could be fatal to assessment, so areas of concern were being targeted. allergy sufferers. I was struck by Professor Elliott’s However, West Yorkshire’s public analyst, Dr Duncan account of a meat product supplier, who had been Campbell, believes the authority’s results represent what asked by a retailer to produce a gourmet burger for a is going on nationally. Felicity Lawrence of The Guardian, unit price of under 30p. Even using the cheapest available which covered the results of the survey, concluded: beef from older cows, the lowest possible unit price for “Because it was looking, West Yorkshire found problems”. the burger that the supplier could produce was 59p. It is clear that routine sampling, as well as that based Professor Elliott concluded that the only way to meet on intelligence, is vital if cheats are to be caught and the demands of the retailer would be to switch to beef food safety standards maintained. Dr Duncan Campbell supplied from premises that were not EU approved. explains that well: That black-market meat would then be ground with “Go into a pub and the bottle optics behind the bar will be cheap offal, such as heart and brain, and the incorporation filled with leading brands of vodka or whisky. If trading standards of meat emulsion, also known as pink slime or soylent never check they are what they claim to be, and the publican is pink, and mechanically separated or recovered meat. having his margins squeezed, there is a huge incentive for him to The product would then have been marketed as a gourmet refill his bottles with cheaper generic spirits from the cash and burger, targeting the top end of the market at a higher carry. price and at a huge profit margin for the retailer, which That principle holds true across the whole retail and manufacturing would be committing fraud by misrepresentation. sector. If you don’t have routine sampling in each area, you don’t find the cheats, and there is no deterrent to protect the public.” The example highlights a culture that Professor Elliott describes as one of casual dishonesty, which he says Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): needs to change to one where food composition is Does the hon. Lady agree that with the fall in the proved, not assumed. He recommends that if retailers amount of testing and sampling, and price increases consistently buy below the market price, they should affecting both production and the retail margin, 12 months check there are no grounds to suspect the goods are from now things are likely to be worse, not better, unless criminal property or they risk being guilty of complicity the trend is reversed? in a crime. In other words, they should know that if they are getting something that seems too good to be Kerry McCarthy: Yes. There is a double incentive. true, it is too good to be true and something dodgy is One is that people are perhaps more likely to do things going on. that they think they can get away with. The other is that In the rest of the time available, I want to concentrate profits are being squeezed and there are limits on the on a few concerns. Answers to written parliamentary price that they can charge for products and still manage questions that I have recently tabled reveal an alarming to sell them. That is entirely true. drop in food testing over the past five years. Food In his interim report, Professor Elliott called for both composition testing is down 48%; food labelling and risk-based and random testing to protect the consumer. presentation testing is down 53.4%; microbiological Will the Minister make that FSA policy? The enforcement analyses are down by 25.3%; and food contamination of standards has become increasingly random as council analyses are down by 24.5%. Professor Elliott has warned budgets are slashed. In answers that I have received that cuts to food testing and inspection could put lives from the Under-Secretary of State for Health, the hon. at risk. He has said that they could compromise the Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison),about funding for safety of the food that people eat to such an extent that food testing, the Government have insisted they have “people start to die” and has called for “strong” and increased funding through the provision of additional “well resourced” regulators. funding from the FSA to local authorities. That has increased to £2.2 million for 2013-14 from £900,000 in Andy Foster, from the Trading Standards Institute, 2010-11. That is welcome, but it does not compensate told a recent “Dispatches” programme on Channel 4: for severe cuts to local authority budgets, which have “You take money out of sampling, you take money out of resulted, for example, in 743 job losses in trading standards inspection, you take the money out of the consumer protection at council level between 2009 and 2012. Leicester city system. You will get increased levels of fraudulent activity…When council’s head of regulation, Roman Leszczyszyn, said 239WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 240WH

[Kerry McCarthy] substitution of cheaper cuts of desinewed meat. It is a pity that our conclusions and the alarm bell that was that trading standards officers had been encouraged by rung were not responded to then. central Government to pursue intelligence-led enforcement, rather than random sampling, to Laura Sandys: Those early warning signs are the “reduce the burden on business and remove unnecessary inspection”. important issue for the Government. We need to ensure I am deeply concerned that the Government’s ideological that when such things are seen to happen, they will commitment to deregulation is trumping their responsibility trigger action from the FSA or DEFRA, which should for food safety. As the Elliott review says, consumers work out the possible scenarios. Prices will be increasingly should be put first—something that does not seem to be squeezed, and that will become more of an issue. happening under the present Government. Last week, I raised with the Minister Professor Elliott’s Miss McIntosh: As my hon. Friend has pointed out, concerns about the potential for budget cuts to affect scrutiny of the issues is split between more than one the integrity of our supply chains, but he replied as if Department—the Department of Health and DEFRA my question was solely about the horsemeat scandal of in the present case. What is particularly galling is that last year. However, as today’s debate has highlighted, desinewed meat is still produced from non-ruminants as we have moved on from the fraudulent use of horsemeat Baader meat in other European member states. There in beef products to the much wider investigation of should be the same rule throughout the European Union. food crime and our complex food supply networks. There have been several reports, including the Select Would the Minister like to have another go at answering Committee report to which the Minister contributed, as my question of 27 March: does he agree with Professor well as the Troop review, the National Audit Office Elliott that budget cutting could reach the point where review, an internal FSA review and now the Elliott the safety of the food we eat is compromised to the review. We need definitive action now. As my hon. extent that “people start to die”, or is the Professor just Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) said, overreacting? there was a remarkable short-term boost for local butchers I know that the hon. Member for South Thanet is and farm shops, and I hope that that will last. passionate about the cause of ensuring that people eat To address the point made by the right hon. Member better food and do not resort to cheap food. It is a for Birkenhead (Mr Field), as well as by my hon. Friend difficult issue. People’s budgets are under pressure. It is the Member for South Thanet, people may eat cheaply one thing to educate them about what is in their food, by buying a roast and eating it in various forms during and to make sure that marketing of food reflects what is the course of the week. Frozen and processed foods, the in it, and that it is of good quality. However, the cost of real villains of the piece in food adulteration, are more living is still an issue. My right hon. Friend the Member expensive than buying fresh meat from the local butcher. for Birkenhead (Mr Field), who is no longer in his The interim Elliott review was so important because place, is mounting an inquiry into the question of how it looked at and pulled out the various conclusions of to square people’s inability to afford to pay a great deal Select Committee and other earlier reports, bringing for food with the fact that we should not be encouraging them all together and, in particular, highlighting issues them to buy cheap food. That is quite a job. The such as slabs of meat in cold storage or the transporting important point is that no matter how much people pay of food over long distances, which we now know were for their food, they have a right to know what is in it. often the cause of the problem, but had not previously They should not be given food that is not what they been focused on. In responding, I hope that my hon. think it is. Friend the Minister will update us on where we are with labelling. In response to the Select Committee’s fifth 9.55 am report, on food contamination, the Government state: Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): It is “New labelling rules have just been agreed by the European a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Union and the Government must meet its legal obligations on implementation of these EU labelling regulations.” Dr McCrea, and to follow the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy). I congratulate my hon. Friend That poses a particular problem for the Malton bacon the Member for South Thanet (Laura Sandys) on securing factory, because what we are trying to do with one meat the debate, which is timely, as we await Professor Elliott’s product, beef, perversely has implications for other final report. I welcome the Minister and the shadow products, such as pork. It would be helpful if the spokesman, the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca- Minister updated us. Davies), and I thank the Minister for his well-spent time On the call for shorter supply chains, the complacency on the Select Committee for Environment, Food and in the evidence that we heard in Committee was Rural Affairs, and the contribution he made to its breathtaking. The supply chains were taken as read; reports. they were not visited—not once every three months, not My hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet was once every year and not even once in three years. We right to focus on what is a new aspect of the area of need reassurance from the supermarkets and the bigger crime we are discussing, and we should consider why food retail chains that that is now happening. Traceability there have not been any prosecutions to date. The Select and labelling go to the core of the issue: we must learn Committee first reported in March 2012 on what we the lessons from BSE and keep our markets open. The were told was a temporary ban on desinewed meat, European Union is, after all, our largest market for which regrettably led to a loss of jobs at Newby Foods fresh meat, frozen food and processed food products. in my constituency and, I understand, at Moy Park in The Elliott review is also important for highlighting Northern Ireland. We concluded at the time that there the role of food testing, as commented on by the hon. was potential for adulteration and mislabelling, and the Member for Bristol East and my hon. Friend the Member 241WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 242WH for South Thanet. The reduction in the number of food the acting FSA chairman, Tim Bennett, for his work in analysts and the closure of food laboratories is causing bringing stability to the area, but the fact that the great concern throughout the farming community and vacancy has been left open for possibly more than a in the profession. year raises issues. I urge the Government to speed up the process, because we need a permanent head of the Huw Irranca-Davies: The hon. Lady is making a FSA in place—someone who will be the front person good contribution. May I take her one step back? She should there be further issues, and who will implement made a point about the importance of the industry’s the final conclusions of the Elliott report and the action reputation domestically, but we also need to get things for which the Government will undoubtedly call. right because, with credit to the Government, work on A worrying aspect is the split responsibility between the export market is very much predicated on the strong the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs reputation of UK meat produce. We need to get that and the Department of Health. In the Environment, right, because it will drive our export market. If we get Food and Rural Affairs Committee, we certainly expected it wrong, the corollary is that we could be sacrificing to be doing the pre-appointment scrutiny, but we were some great balance-of-payments input for this country. bitterly disappointed to find that it fell to the Health Committee. There are questions about overall scrutiny Miss McIntosh: The hon. Gentleman—I might dare and where responsibility for the FSA would be best to call him my hon. Friend—makes a powerful point. placed. Greater scrutiny and transparency can only The key to everything is that there was nothing unsafe: enhance its role. it was fraud, adulteration and mislabelling. We may I urge the Minister to report on the Department’s pride ourselves on the safety of food production from discussions in Brussels and to tell us about the initial farm to plate. The long supply chain was the villain of reactions to the Elliott recommendations, in particular the piece. on putting consumers first; zero tolerance; where the There is now more testing than ever, as the Committee Government think they will go on intelligence gathering; has said. There had probably been a reduction in testing the idea of a two-tier lab service, with a national one before, and the evidence we heard was that certain local reporting to a European one; and the other conclusions. authorities, which shall remain nameless, had not done Will the Minister also inform us where we are with the any testing for a number of years. That is simply not on. shorter supply chain? Will he reassure us that retailers Where retailers are testing, it is extremely important are not taking the supply chain on trust and that there that they share the results with the Food Standards will be better traceability and labelling overall? Agency and post them on their website, so that the consumer knows what is safe. We await the final report 10.8 am from Professor Elliott with great interest. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It is a pleasure to contribute to the debate, and to do so under your Laura Sandys: That is an important point about chairmanship, Dr McCrea. I assure you that my phone communicating with the consumer. If product has not is on silent and will not interfere with my contribution met the required standard or there has been an infraction to the debate. of trading standards, I would like to see retailers and suppliers across the board having that on their websites, It is a pleasure to speak in the debate secured by the telling consumers that there has been fraud or a problem. hon. Member for South Thanet (Laura Sandys), because this issue has caused much concern in the past, and still does. We have seen some improvement, and I am sure Miss McIntosh: My hon. Friend’s point is extremely that the Minister will set that out in his response. The well made and I am grateful for it. other contributors, the hon. Members for Bristol East Turning to food crime and why there have been no (Kerry McCarthy) and for Thirsk and Malton (Miss prosecutions, the matter is about frozen and processed McIntosh), also outlined some of the changes that have food more than fresh food. Questions have to be asked. taken place. The hon. Member for South Thanet set the Action on fraud is well led by City of London police, scene clearly for us all. but in that instance—perhaps the Minister will respond— At the time of the horsemeat contamination incident, was it the correct body? We have to ask why there were back in January 2013, I was among the first to state that no prosecutions. The Secretary of State at the time, and we needed changes to ensure that the same thing did not a previous Agriculture Minister, said that those who happen again. Along with many other hon. Members, I had perpetrated the crimes would be brought to justice was concerned that the issue had arisen at all. Apart and feel the full force of the law. Why therefore have from putting many people off buying burgers, the scandal there been no prosecutions? We need to bring those revealed that there was no adequate policing of the food people to book. chain in the globalised market. Although we can take My hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet action on our home soil in Westminster, Northern Ireland, mentioned the Dutch scenario, but I am taken with the Scotland and Wales, there is a globalised market out Danish model—I declare an interest, because I am half there over which we have no control. Danish—of flying food squads descending on food We must do better at home and ensure that the producers, which has something to commend it. Professor produce that comes to the United Kingdom of Great Elliott may report more on that. Britain and Northern Ireland is controlled. Gone are Leadership from the FSA is crucial, and the Select the days when a person knew the farmer who slaughtered Committee asked questions about the scrutiny of food for the butcher who sold them their meat, but I am glad production, with the Government’s 2010 changes in that there is a re-emergence of interest in and commitment particular potentially clouding the issue. I commend to our local butchers—not before time. We are living in 243WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 244WH

[Jim Shannon] always put the needs of consumers above all other considerations. The review recommended that a new times when meat from Spain, Portugal, Brazil or Argentina food crime unit be led by the Food Standards Agency, is as popular as good, British beef, due to the rise of the and that the agency and local authority staff develop a supermarkets and their long-reaching arms. coherent approach across all areas of hygiene and standards. My hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry That includes improving the guidance and training of (Mr Campbell) and I were talking before the debate, enforcement officers that is co-ordinated by the FSA and we were saying that a housewife who has three or and other professional bodies. four children to feed and must put meat on the table The initial findings of the Elliott review emphasise a faces a quandary when she goes to the supermarket. need for local authorities and the FSA to work together The hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton said that it is more effectively, which has not happened in the past. cheaper to buy a roasting joint, from which a reasonable We look forward to seeing how they can knit together meal can be made, and which lasts for one or two days, better in the regions of the United Kingdom of Great but if the housewife sees a £3.99 and a 99p version of a Britain and Northern Ireland and, as the shadow Minister product in the supermarket, often the cheaper will win said, across Europe and globally. because it puts meat on the table for her family at a cheaper price. It may not be as good quality as the The most recent research by Which? shows that about £3.99 product, but at the end of the day it provides a half of consumers changed their meat eating habits as a meal. No matter what we do in legislation, it is hard to result of the horsemeat scare in 2013. Local butchers to affect the housewife’s choice in the supermarket, and we whom I have spoken say they are getting a younger must be aware of that. clientele, who would have shopped in the supermarket Unfortunately, the checks process has been diluted; in the past but now go to town to get their meat. That is that was highlighted by the scandal. It was made clear a positive sign that augurs well for the future. Many at that time that we desperately need a more effective local butchers have been making the most of the new approach to ensure that best use is made of limited trade by diversifying into creating meals. For many busy resources, and to prioritise consumer interests. It is vital families—those in which both partners work full time—it that the Government and every Member of the House is handy to have a meal that can be cooked quickly and ensure that we use the opportunity to make lasting is easy to prepare and put on the table. I am not saying changes. In the Minister’s response, will he tell the that it should always be cooked in the microwave. The House how he is working with the Northern Ireland meals that the butchers have been creating are easy for Assembly—three of us here represent Northern Ireland— younger people to make, and they have simplified the and the Scottish and Welsh Administrations to ensure packaging so is easier to understand. Local butchers that what happens in England happens in the other have been making the most of the new situation, but regions and applies to everybody? have we done so, at a parliamentary and regional level? It is vital that we take action to ensure that consumers are confident about the food they buy. We must feed Huw Irranca-Davies: The hon. Gentleman makes a into that process with robust checks. I welcome the good point. He has a particular perspective on this issue re-emergence of the local butcher. because, like me, he comes from an area of devolved Administration. One of the lessons that was flagged up In my constituency of Strangford, we have some of by the scandal and that Elliott touches on is the necessity the foremost food producers in not only the whole of for trans-border, transnational co-operation, not only Northern Ireland, but in the UK. A couple come to on food standards and food safety, but at the level of mind. There is Mash Direct, whose motto is: political leadership. If we do only one thing, we must “From our fields to your fork”. ensure that this works across borders, at a European level. There is Willowbrook Foods in Killinchy, which has another factory in Newtownards. These are growth Jim Shannon: I thank the shadow Minister for that industries. The quality is five-star, and they offer a good sensible contribution, which we can all endorse. When choice of vegetables. We also have top-quality lamb, the Minister responds, I hope he will provide more beef, pork and poultry—all produced locally and sold detail about how that will work. in supermarket chains and across the water. Most of what we produce is exported to the Republic, England, When I spoke in a debate on the subject last year, I Scotland or further afield. Every day, our fishing fleet in used the analogy of spilt milk: we should not cry over it, Portavogie lands the finest fresh prawns. There is Pritchitts but fix the jug handle to make sure it does not spill foods in Newtownards, which is an example of the again. We have the chance to fix the handle, and we powdered milk industry. It sources all its milk from must do it. I am pleased to say that Professor Elliott is farmers in Northern Ireland, from a catchment area of based at Queen’s university in Belfast—all good things 40 to 50 miles. That top-quality powdered milk is exported come from Northern Ireland, as you and I know, all over the world—as far away as China, Asia, South Dr McCrea. Queen’s university has had many good America and all over Africa. Food manufacturing and things happening in the field of health—it has had produce are intertwined, and Northern Ireland leads in world firsts and innovations in cancer research and the field. treatment. In December, Professor Elliott published the interim findings of his wider review of the integrity and The Which? report stated that consumers need to be assurance of food supply networks, which was reassured that businesses’ controls are checked and that commissioned by the UK Government. It took a legislation is reinforced. Only 56% of those surveyed “consumers first”, zero-tolerance approach, to ensure were confident that the food they buy contains exactly that industry, the Government and enforcement agencies what is stated on the ingredients list. 245WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 246WH

Huw Irranca-Davies: The hon. Gentleman is making but some are sharing their services. There may be better some extremely good points. Does he accept that one of ways of doing that, and expertise should be extended the interesting facets of the debate is that it cannot be around the country. divorced from fair reward in all parts of the supply Local knowledge should be supplemented with more chain, and from measures that we took on a cross-party strategic sharing of services across local authorities, basis in this House, such as the Groceries Code Adjudicator? overseen by the FSA, including teams of enforcement There is a race to the bottom and a relentless squeeze on officers at regional level. The Elliott report referred to prices. As Billy Bragg said, if anyone wants an example regional control, direction and focus across local authority of where out-and-out, unlimited, unrestricted capitalism boundaries to deal with specific sector issues and more takes us, it is horsemeat. complex or high-risk food businesses, and that should be looked at. It is clear that confidence has been affected. Jim Shannon: Again, the hon. Gentleman makes a We must use the report, when it is finalised, to re-establish valuable contribution that I endorse and support. It is that confidence and to ensure that checks are in place, not right that manufacturers and producers should be so that people have confidence in the industry and that squeezed over and over; it should not happen. We it can deliver. That is what is expected of us in the cannot expect farmers or producers to produce products House, and that is what we must undertake to do. at a negligible profit and remain in business. We then wonder why other countries are able to produce similar products and sell them here. Price matters, but so does 10.23 am quality. Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): It is a great pleasure, Dr McCrea, to serve under your stewardship Laura Sandys: The other issue is the disproportionate this morning in what has been a good and wide-ranging impact on poorer households and their health. We must debate. I will try not to diminish the quality of the not forget that horsemeat, although it may be included contributions. I congratulate the hon. Member for South in products fraudulently, is not necessarily bad for Thanet (Laura Sandys) not only on securing the debate, health. We now see things infiltrating our food system but on her introduction to it. She has been a consistent that corrupt food and are bad for health. campaigner on this and related issues. Her expertise showed in how she comprehensively went through a range of issues. I will start with some of the comments Jim Shannon: I accept that, and thank the hon. Lady that she and other colleagues made. for her wise words. The hon. Lady wisely said that we should have been Of those surveyed, 56% were confident that the food able to see the problem coming, not least through the they buy contains exactly what is stated on the ingredients disconnect between commodity prices and the retail list, but that means that 44% were not confident. Nine offer. There were other things that could have been in 10 people believe that businesses that manufacture seen, not least the disappearance of horses from Ireland, food for sale in food outlets and that sell food directly to Northern Ireland and Wales. They ended up in north the public have to be inspected to ensure that they meet Wales or elsewhere, but they did not emerge somewhere hygiene standards before they can sell food to the public. else. Some connectivity of intelligence would have suggested We adhere to strict controls, criteria and legislation, and that something was happening. There were also wider the public expect that, but 91% of people would be European issues. The hon. Lady made the point worried if cuts to their local council meant that some exceptionally well that we should have been able to see food businesses would no longer be inspected. Will the the problem coming, and that is one of the big lessons Minister reassure the 91% who are worried that cuts in the recommendations in the Elliott report. may affect their council’s duty to inspect businesses? My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry It is clear to me that the onus for checking must be on McCarthy) is also a long-term campaigner on food and officials, and it is our responsibility to put in place related issues. She raised a vital issue that was picked up changes, now that the report has been launched. One in the Elliott report. There are worrying reductions in suggestion made in a briefing, with which I agree completely, the capacity for testing, which are linked to the capacity is that a UK-wide database, incorporating produce for detection, investigation and early intervention. That from Northern Ireland and all regions, is needed. That is not simply about Europol, it is about what is happening goes back to a point I made and on which the shadow down on the ground at the grass roots, in local authorities Minister intervened: we need something across the whole and at a co-ordinated UK level. It is worrying if that United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, capacity is diminished, and it is not just my hon. Friend so that all regions are working together to produce who says that—as she said, the Elliott review also says better produce in which people can have confidence. that clearly. Which? states that there is a need for more local The hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss authority food testing, a mandatory system for collecting McIntosh), who has great expertise from her constituency sampling information from local authorities in a UK background and knowledge, made some good points database, a more strategic approach to ensure adequate about the inconsistency in how some meat production is sampling, and analytical capacity to deal with potential treated at EU and UK level. I strongly agree with her threats. If local authorities do more testing, they will call for definitive action after a series of reports into need access to laboratories that have the analytical food fraud and food crime, and an end to the hiatus and capability to deal with the increasingly sophisticated vacuum in the FSA chairmanship. That is critical, because methods of food fraud. The hon. Member for South if the Elliott report says nothing else about the FSA, it Thanet mentioned food fraud when setting the scene. screams out for leadership not only within the Government Many local authorities are working with limited resources, and internationally, but at the heart of the matter, which 247WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 248WH

[Huw Irranca-Davies] We know that there has been an impact on consumer confidence over the past year, because although frozen includes the FSA. That leadership is needed to drive the meat and poultry sales grew, those of frozen and processed issue forward, not least when the full report is produced. meat products plummeted by as much as 40% for some Someone—not just the Minister, but the head of the sellers immediately after what happened, and there has FSA—must take a steer and say how strongly the been a slow recovery since. According to Euromonitor, recommendations will be pushed through. consumer confidence in frozen and processed meat food The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is still low. As hon. Members have mentioned, the brought a different perspective to the issue, and I thank situation has been a boon for butchers, farm shops and him for talking about the need for consistent application the like, but it has also caused re-engineering towards of what eventually comes out of the Elliott review shorter supply chains by organisations such as Asda regardless of national borders. That relates to the big and Tesco. I recall, as everybody will, Tesco’s “We get issue of long supply chains. We cannot suddenly make it” advert last year, which came, not coincidentally, at them disappear. There will be long global supply chains— the same time as the National Farmers Union conference that is the reality we now live with, even with the saying, “We get it. We will change the way we operate”. approach that Tesco and Asda are taking of shortening However, it was not simply Tesco—that was the biggest supply chains and so on. We therefore need commensurate organisation to be confronted with the problem, but transnational measures to deal with supply chains and others have also started re-engineering. There is work to to ensure that we can give consumers confidence on not be done, and I keep a close eye on that, but they are only provenance but safety. A year ago, the issue was starting to change how they operate. primarily provenance; the next one may be food safety. We must ensure that good crime analysis is comprehensively Kerry McCarthy: I am somewhat baffled about how pushed out transnationally. We can do a lot about that. there can be such long supply chains in the manufacture of food products and yet the price is still so low. It All hon. Members who spoke referred, in various seems common sense that the more travel is involved, ways, to squaring the circle of cost, and having safe, and the more countries and the more different elements, affordable, nutritious food, while also having fair reward the more the price will be bumped up. I suspect that I for producers. Those matters are not unconnected. They am putting my hon. Friend on the spot, but I very much hang together coherently, or they should. The hon. welcome the fact that supply chains are being shortened, Member for South Thanet referred to her consistent so that we know where our food is coming from. theme about the need for education and awareness so that people can do a lot with good food affordably. She is right, but that must be balanced against the reality of, Huw Irranca-Davies: My hon. Friend makes a very for example, a single parent rushing between a couple of good point, but I think we have to accept that in jobs and dealing with child duties. They will look for international food transactions, some food products do convenience foods, so our frozen, convenience meat not have a UK market. There are some products created products must be safe, nutritious and affordable—not in the UK that UK consumers do not consume. For simply cheap, but affordable. I know that she accepts example, if we look at some of the products that are that, and getting it right is important. consumed in other nations from the slaughter of chickens, there is currently no UK market for them. They are The Elliott review is important, and if we look at the exported. Conversely and curiously, many of our farmers scale of the industry, we see why it is critical to get the are finding at the moment that the premium prices for matter right. It involves not just consumer confidence Welsh lamb, pork and so on are not primarily in the but jobs and industry. According to the most recent UK, so the market is operating in a way that is turning figures from the Library, the food and drinks industry is some of the product flows on their heads. Although I worth £188 billion. The food and drink manufacturing welcome a drive towards shorter, more clearly identifiable industry is the single largest manufacturing sector in the food supply chains, there will always be an element of UK, with a turnover of £92 billion and gross value longer supply chains, and that is why we need to deal added of £24 billion, accounting for 18% of the total with the issue in both ways. manufacturing sector by turnover. It employs just over 400,000 workers, which is 16% of the overall manufacturing Kerry McCarthy: I want to clarify that I am not really work force in the UK. talking about us exporting our products or importing The latest figures that I have—I admit that they go products, but at the time of the horsemeat scandal, back to 2012, so I suspect that they are slightly bigger when we were looking, for example, at what was in now—suggest that just in the sectors responsible for the lasagne, about 11 different countries seemed to be involved. processing, production and preservation of meat, poultry, Meat might have started out in Ireland, but then it went fish, crustaceans and molluscs, as referred to by the to Spain, Romania and so on. Surely lasagne can just be hon. Member for Strangford, there were nearly 3,500 made in one or two countries, rather than having to be enterprises of various size and scale, with more than sent on a tour of Europe before it gets to us. £32 billion spent, employing more than 176,000 people. We therefore need to get things right—post-horsemeat Huw Irranca-Davies: My hon. Friend makes a very and post-Elliott review and its final recommendations—not good point—I am sorry, I did not realise that she was only for consumer confidence but because if we do not, referring to that specific example. She is right; in fact, in that is what is at risk. Our deserved reputation for good, some examples, as many as 20 transaction points were safe, well provenanced food was shaken last year. We in the food cycle, which is astonishing. Meat was hurtling need to get it right back in kilter for the domestic across Europe for different parts of its processing. I market, consumers, the industry itself and our export suspect that it went beyond Europe as well, because potential. there was an important, interesting sideshow going on. 249WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 250WH

The US had banned the slaughter of horses for meat Ministers. It is not just me saying that; others have, too. production, but most people had accepted that all they At the time, the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs had done was exported that to South America—and Committee said that where was it going from there? “the current contamination crisis has caught the FSA and Government My hon. Friend is absolutely right. One welcome flat-footed and unable to respond effectively within structures move from some supermarkets and retailers is that the designed primarily to respond to threats to human health.” big ones are now following the established practice Lord Rooker, speaking only last month at a major among others, such as Waitrose, Morrisons and the food symposium, said: Co-op, of not only identifying local and UK sourcing— “There was confusion in the first three or four days about who within England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and, was responsible for what…There was a hiatus in the first few days. I have to say, Ireland as well—but being much more But the slowest place it went in the food industry was Whitehall. specific for consumers. They are saying, “We can tell The Department of Health, DEFRA…and Number 10 blamed you where the product comes from and how close it is to the FSA for the problem in the first three weeks. It’s always the market”. That is a welcome innovation. issue—blame the regulator—” in his words— I turn to the evidence of growth in food fraud and food crime. As hon. Members have mentioned, when “as happened in the flooding crisis with the Environment Agency. the FSA set up the food fraud database in 2007, it But it is not a very good way to operate.” received less than 50 reports of food fraud, but by last Labour’s and others’ call for another look at the year it had received more than 1,500. According to powers of the FSA is supported by the former chairman the National Audit Office, local authorities reported of the FSA, Lord Rooker, and the same concerns have 1,380 cases of food fraud in 2012, which was up by two been raised in the Elliott report, in Professor Pat Troop’s thirds since 2010. inquiry for the FSA, in the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee report and by the National Professor Elliott wisely makes the distinction between Audit Office. I say to the Minister that there is a real food fraud and food crime. There have always been strength of voice saying, “Look at the governance of elements of food fraud going on; some noticeable ones the food industry again, and at how it has been fragmented.” are currently pending prosecution in different parts of The lack of clarity about that is not the reason why we the UK. However, food crime goes beyond the are where we are, but it is certainly a contributory “few random acts by ‘rogues’”— factor, as is the lack of clarity between Whitehall and they have always been out there operating, unfortunately, what is happening locally on the ground. Labour therefore and they need to be stamped down on—into what welcomes the report. It must be a wake-up call for the Professor Elliott calls Government—for all Governments, whoever is in “an organised activity perpetrated by groups who knowingly set government. out to deceive and or injure those purchasing a food product.” Twelve months after the horsemeat scandal, we see in It is on a grand scale and it is worrying. the papers today that no prosecutions have been brought, as hon. Members have commented today. They are right—no major prosecutions have been brought, but a Laura Sandys: The hon. Gentleman is making a very couple of what might be deemed peripheral cases are important point. It is absolutely crucial, when looking under way.However, it seems to me—I may be wrong—that at international organised crime, which is part of the those cases involve the small guys and fringe operators. system, that we in the UK are not seen as the easy They do need to be brought to book, but I am not touch, and that the message goes out from Government seeing any follow-through at the moment. Perhaps the to ensure that we are not seen as an easy-entry proposition Minister will tell me of something more major, with for those sorts of crime organisations. serious criminality behind it. The hon. Member for South Thanet made a point Huw Irranca-Davies: The hon. Lady makes an absolutely about the penalties that are available. It is interesting valid point, and we should be leading on the matter. We that currently, under the various food regulations, there have to do it alongside European colleagues and others, are penalties such as fines of up to £20,000 under the but we should be leading on it. General Food Regulations 2004, which seems a lot, and We understandably focused very much post-horsemeat imprisonment of up to two years. If we are talking on meat products, their provenance and so on, but about real, serious-scale criminality, is a £20,000 fine Operation Opson II, the joint Interpol-Europol initiative enough? Most well organised, transnational, serious two years ago, dealt with the seizure of potentially criminals—the ones that were targeted by the Serious harmful products such as soup cubes, olive oil—a massive Organised Crime Agency, as it was previously known— area of potential food crime—caviar, coffee and many would laugh at that penalty. One question that comes other products. We need to be wise to the fact that the out of the Elliott review, the horsemeat scandal and any issue in the UK, post-horsemeat, is coloured by that, prosecutions that might be pending is whether we need but it is a much wider issue, and whenever those involved to look again at penalties in a much more serious way. can see the opportunity for criminality, they will try and Should more severe penalties be available not only in get in there. the UK, but across the EU? Is there scope, for example, I turn back to the issue of horsemeat for a moment, for confiscation of assets and so on? because there are some particularly instructive points Of course, all that work goes alongside European for how we can respond to Elliott and what comes out initiatives. The European Union food fraud unit is in his report. When the horsemeat crisis broke, it is doing good work, and it will be interesting to see undoubtedly true—I have to say this, and I have said it whether the Minister refers to that. The need for consistently—that there was a delay in Whitehall among centralisation of the horse passports system has been 251WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 252WH

[Huw Irranca-Davies] occurs, the necessary mechanisms must be in place so that regulators and industry can deal with it, and identified, and the Government have been considering I agree. for some time what they should do in that respect. They We need to champion the consumer and the industry have always been scathing about the old equine database and get this right. The Elliott report takes us on significantly, and have said that they see the need for a centralised and I hope that the Minister will say today that he is database. We accept that, but is it coming forward and extremely positive about the recommendations and will how does it tie in with the European approach to horse tell us when we are likely to see some implementation to passports? There is also the option of extending country- take them forward. of-origin labelling to processed meat. The second round of DNA testing of meat products will take place this 10.45 am spring. I hope that the Minister will respond on some of those matters in his summing-up speech. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice): European Commissioner Borg said in an interview As always in these debates, I have many questions to last week: answer and not a great deal of time, but I will do my “We want to ensure that the actions that we have taken have best. I begin by congratulating my hon. Friend the borne fruit, otherwise we will have to introduce even stricter Member for South Thanet (Laura Sandys) on securing measures”. the debate, which has provided us with an excellent Does the Minister think that we are on course now? Are opportunity to explore the interim report on the integrity we responding effectively? If not, what will those stricter and assurance of food supply networks and for me to measures be, and what impact will they have on both update colleagues on activities since the discovery of burdens on the industry and consumer prices? It is in horsemeat fraud in 2013. our interest to get this right and to go forward without As my hon. Friend pointed out, the horsemeat fraud disproportionate burdens. I welcome the EU food integrity incident last year inflicted considerable damage on our initiative and the lead role of the UK’s Food and food industry and undermined confidence in our food. Environment Research Agency—one quango that, quite It was damaging to the retailers and processors involved, rightly, was not burned in the bonfire. and that should drive home to all of them the reality I want to ask the Minister about the UK’s current that they have more to lose than anyone by cutting position not only on food safety and food provenance, corners or allowing the integrity of our food supply but on “wholesome” food. I suspect that many hon. chain to be compromised. Members here today are not aware of what is currently Food fraud is completely unacceptable. It is a crime. going on in the European Union, but there is a debate The competitive pressures of the marketplace, to which about the definition of wholesome food and the need to my hon. Friend referred, are no excuse for misleading ensure that we have wholesome food in the supply consumers and committing fraud, so lessons must be chain. We understand that UK Ministers are supporting learned by all involved. The Government take the threat a drive to weaken the framework whereby meat and of food fraud very seriously and want to ensure that food inspections for abscesses, tumours and so on—the lessons are learned. That is why we asked Professor “unwholesome” parts of a carcase—mean that they are Elliott to look into what could be done to protect the prevented from entering the food chain. The carcases food chain and to restore consumer confidence following are split open and inspected, and any contaminated the horsemeat fraud scandal. meat is cut out. That is under European regulation 882. As all hon. Members here know, Professor Elliott Why would the Government, after the horsemeat scandal published his interim report in December 2013. We and while we are considering the Elliott report, even should note that, in it, he makes it clear that UK consider ending the requirement for official controls consumers have access to some of the safest food in the that ensure that food of animal origin is free of diseased, world, so it is not all bad. However, there is no room for or “unwholesome” in Euro-speak, animal material? complacency. Professor Elliott sets out what he has On the interim Elliott review proposals and the questions identified as the key features of a national food crime that arise from them, I entirely agree that Elliott puts prevention strategy. The interim report includes no consumers first. He asks for a zero-tolerance approach. fewer than 48 recommendations, which Professor Elliott I agree about that, and I suspect that we will need to has been discussing with the industry and the Government look at the range of sanctions that we have available. as part of the consultation process for the preparation Should we include seizure of assets, longer sentences of his final report. The Government have also been and suspension or exclusion from the food manufacturing discussing the interim report with interested parties. My sector, for example? hon. Friend specifically asked whether we were discussing On intelligence gathering, Elliott talks about the need the issue with retailers and with industry, and I can for to involve stakeholders, including industry, but says confirm that we are. Whenever I have meetings with that there should also be cross-border intelligence gathering. retailers, it is one of the issues on our agenda. We agree. On laboratory services, as hon. Members There are 48 recommendations, but we can break have mentioned, Elliott raises major questions about down Professor Elliott’s report into three key themes. the reductions in UK laboratory and testing capacity. First, he identifies a package of measures in relation On audit, we agree with Elliott’s recommendations, as to testing and enforcement. Secondly, a big part of his we do on Government support and on leadership. We report is dedicated to responsibilities in the supply have been playing catch-up during the past year. We chain, both on retailers and on processors. Finally, now need to get ahead of the game on leadership, there are issues relating to the co-ordination of Government politically as well as within food governance. On crisis efforts, the links between Government agencies and management, Elliott says that when a serious incident co-ordination between Government agencies and local 253WH Elliott Review and Food Crime2 APRIL 2014 Elliott Review and Food Crime 254WH authorities. Professor Elliott raises important issues all the investigations. Five arrests have been made, and relating to all three areas, and we will consider carefully the announcement a couple of weeks ago by the Crown the supporting analysis in his final report before making Prosecution Service of two cases being taken to court a formal response. demonstrates that action is being taken to protect consumers However, there is much that we are already implementing, from mislabelling and to tackle food businesses’ failure and I want to spend a little time highlighting what has to ensure the traceability of the products that they already been done. First, the Government have increased supply. their funding to support local authorities’ co-ordinated The hon. Member for Ogmore talked about the penalties programme of food sampling from £1.6 million to for committing food fraud crimes. The penalty for food £2.2 million in 2013-14. The Food Standards Agency offences can range from giving advice or a formal notice and DEFRA are helping to target local authority resources for very trivial breaches, such as if a mistake has been through greater central co-ordination of intelligence, by made on labelling, to criminal prosecutions for the most providing additional support for complex investigations, serious offences such as fraud. We should bear in mind by making available some of the funding for additional that when it comes to fraud, it is possible to implement training and through prioritised sampling to target a prison sentence of 10 years. I think that there are delivery at areas of agreed national importance. sufficient penalties in our criminal law to tackle the Secondly, an intelligence hub has been established in most serious cases. the FSA to improve its capability to identify and prevent Several hon. Members have talked about the role of threats to food safety and integrity, based on the approach the industry, which is one of the key themes picked up to intelligence used by the police. City of London police by Professor Elliott. As I said at the outset, the food is heavily involved in that. That intelligence hub approach, industry has the most to lose from a decline in confidence which brings together local authorities, the police, the in the supply chain, and it has a responsibility to take a FSA and other interested parties, is a key step towards leading role. As of today, the industry has submitted improving co-ordination, the need for which was highlighted more than 45,000 tests of beef products for horsemeat in Professor Elliott’s interim report and which many since the horsemeat scandal broke, and no new positives hon. Members have referred to today. My hon. Friend have been reported since the height of the incident. the Member for South Thanet also talked about the Retailers and processors have taken a thorough approach importance of information sharing, particularly with to testing. The tests are being carried out through the industry. We are working with industry to tackle some supply chain, not only by retailers but by processors, of the commercial sensitivities that can act as a barrier looking at the ingredients going into products in local to information sharing. The FSA is doing some work to convenience stores as well as large national retailers. improve its access to industry information. Food businesses and trade associations representing Thirdly, as my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk the whole food chain are also working with the FSA and Malton (Miss McIntosh) pointed out, the food and Professor Elliott to consider how to make better fraud experienced last year was a problem at a European use of audit and controls. Professor Elliott is keen to level, so we need action at a European level to tackle it. develop ways of achieving a more streamlined and Despite famously being quite Eurosceptic, I am happy effective auditing process. to tell the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) that we recognise the problem to be a European one, Laura Sandys: I welcome the Minister’s full response. and that we need action at a European level. The new Is the Department for Environment, Food and Rural European food crime unit, which is being developed by Affairs working, in its strategy section, on early warning the European Commission, will be an important part of systems when commodity prices are going up but that intelligence network. The FSA is working with the food prices are going up only a little bit, totally European Commission and with other member states disproportionately? That must be an important signal to get the unit up and running as soon as possible. that gives Government the sense that something is not quite right. Several hon. Members have talked about the importance of enforcement, and particularly pursuing convictions George Eustice: I was going to come on to that point, for the offences committed last year. My hon. Friend but I will deal with it now because my hon. Friend has the Member for Thirsk and Malton asked why more raised it. She highlighted passionately in her speech the had not been done. Action has been taken to try to fact that there has not been as much of an increase in secure convictions for the offences committed last year. retail food prices as there has been in commodity prices. Those investigations are taking a little longer than That can be normal, because commodity prices tend to many people would hope, because they are quite complex cover a small number of products, whereas there is a and cross many national boundaries. A number of broader range of products in food stores. There has police authorities across Europe are involved: Dutch, been a 12% rise in food prices in real terms between Polish, Danish, Italian, French and our own. Because 2007 and 2012, with the biggest spike in 2008. the crimes were committed on a pan-European level In many debates on food banks and the like—I notice across borders, it is taking time to deliver those convictions. that the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) is not here—I am told repeatedly that the price of food Miss McIntosh: Is it not the case that the horse has in the shops is going up. My hon. Friend the Member bolted, to coin a phrase, and that those who have for South Thanet highlighted the frozen cottage pie that perpetrated the crimes will be long gone? cost £1 and did not go up in price again, but food prices at the retail end have gone up by 12%, and the fact that George Eustice: I do not accept that. Investigations certain individual products have stayed the same price are continuing at a number of sites across the UK. City may come down to pricing strategies and promotion, so of London police is co-ordinating the police forces for we cannot read too much into such examples. I recognise 255WH Elliott Review and Food Crime 2 APRIL 2014 256WH

[George Eustice] Child Care her point, however. The FSA has reviewed its emerging risks programme, and it is working with DEFRA to 11 am identify and assess the economic drivers of food fraud Chloe Smith (Norwich North) (Con): Child care is a so that those influencing factors are better understood crucial issue for many working families around Norwich, and acted on. and I am grateful for the opportunity to raise it. I have been talking to a lot of mums, dads, nurseries and Jim Shannon: In my contribution, I asked how DEFRA pre-schools in Norwich, and I would like to express on would work with Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales their behalf some of their concerns about the quality to ensure that there was a co-ordinated plan. Will the and affordability of child care. My hon. Friend the Minister comment on that? Minister has been absolutely right to say in the past that a changing economy means that parents need affordable George Eustice: Again, that is something that I was and available child care more than ever, and that, at the going to come on to. Food enforcement is a devolved same time, a changing world means that children need a responsibility. The Elliott review was commissioned by rigorous and rounded education more than ever. I agree the UK Government, but it is being followed with close with her that we have the opportunity to do both at interest by the devolved Administrations and we are once. discussing it with them. I would like to put the issue in context. Let us not Some hon. Members have suggested that the supply forget the tax and benefit changes that are coming into chain is too long and too complex. I should perhaps effect this very week—the biggest changes in a generation— declare an interest, in that my family run a farm shop which will create more jobs and get more people off and butchery, the slogan of which is “Food yards, not welfare and into work. Child care naturally follows food miles.” I have a clear interest in such issues. It is a from parents going out to work, so it is crucial to see it valid point that small businesses and small retailers may in the context of the whole economy. It is also clear this often have far less complex supply chains, and we can week that only by sticking to a long-term economic learn from that. The horsemeat fraud incident demonstrated plan will we build a more resilient economy that provides the higher vulnerability of some of the more complex a more financially secure future for families. We cannot supply chains, and many retailers are learning the lessons look at the cost of living in isolation, and there can be from that. One could argue that there has been an no economic or household security if the public finances over-reliance on the paperwork involved in all the systems are not under control. for traceability and following products from processor to retailer. The onus is on larger retailers to take much I want to look briefly at the Asda income tracker—the greater interest in where their food comes from. Mumdex—which was published this week. In February, the average UK household had £169 of discretionary I want to pick up on a few of the other points that income a week, up by £5 a week, year on year, and were made. I completely agree with my hon. Friend the interestingly representing the fastest growth in family Member for South Thanet that we should not be seen as spending power since November 2012. That was the a soft touch. It is worth remembering that the EU-wide fifth month in a row that families had seen their household testing programme discovered less than 1% of products incomes rise—a rise boosted by a fall in the price of in the UK that were affected by the horsemeat scandal, petrol, which is 5% lower than in the same month last compared with an average of 4% to 5% in other European year, easing the pressure on household finances. I do countries. Although we are not complacent, we had a not cite those figures to try to explain that everything is more robust system than did many other countries. She currently easy for parents and families, because we all also highlighted the fact that there are 111 inspectors in know that it is not, but it is important to note that Holland, but I point out that Holland has a slightly things are slowly improving. Such improvements in different approach. In our local authorities in this country, family finances can, of course, come about only with we have more than 2,700 inspectors; it is simply that the control of the public finances, and through the they are not in a dedicated unit but sit within trading serious decisions that a Government can take, and that standards. this Government have taken, about what to spend hard- The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) earned taxes on. mentioned adverse reports from local authorities that I am particularly pleased that the Chancellor has put have done their own inspections. It is encouraging that public money towards the tax-free child care scheme local authorities are stepping up to the mark and carrying outlined in the Budget, because it stands to ease costs out such inspections. As I pointed out, there are two for families even further. I am also pleased that the reasons why the figures can look misleadingly high. scheme will be bigger and faster than first outlined, and First, local authorities tended to investigate where there glad that it will particularly help families who face the had been complaints, so we would expect them to have real squeeze—basic rate taxpayers who often find that found more problems. Secondly, many of the problems the cost of child care outweighs the financial benefits of that they found were mislabelling, foreign-language labelling both parents working. or things not being in the right place. Only a small number were food adulteration. Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): I am grateful to I am afraid that I have run out of time. We welcome my hon. Friend for raising such an important issue. I this debate, which has been a great opportunity to am one of the few MPs who had two children in child explore the issues highlighted by Professor Elliott, and care during the days of the last Labour Government, we look forward to his final report. and I watched as my child care costs spiralled. I am disgusted that no Opposition Members are present to 257WH Child Care2 APRIL 2014 Child Care 258WH hear what my hon. Friend has to say. Does she agree able to provide more choice and flexibility for parents. I that the Government’s support for child care will bring want it to be easier for new providers to enter the much-needed respite and help to working parents who market and for good existing providers to expand, struggled desperately with the added bureaucracy and because that brings consequent benefits in both affordability cost of child care under the previous Government? and quality. My hon. Friend the Minister has previously given the example of countries such as France and Chloe Smith: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and Germany, which have excellent systems for comparable I am very interested to hear about her personal experience. amounts of Government spending, while paying staff I agree with her, and think that the Government’s good salaries and keeping costs affordable for parents. support for child care will give families greater stability For me, those are the crucial things that we want British and flexibility, so that they can make choices about child care to achieve for parents and children. what best suits their family picture. I know that the I would like to give some examples. My hon. Friend Minister is passionate about that. the Minister and I recently visited Magdalen Gates In response to my hon. Friend, I would like to refer to pre-school in north Norwich, which has been rated a constituent, Mr C, who told me: “good” by Ofsted and also won multiple awards. Staff “I’m now on 10k a year, at 39 years of age. My wife, an there would like to expand, but they are concerned amazing mother, has to stay at home to look after two of our about the sheer scale of the project of extending a children, as we cannot afford the child care or would be worse off building. As child carers, they do not feel that that is an if my wife went to work”. area in which they have expertise, but as they are on an I have obviously spoken to that constituent about the enclosed city site, it is one of the few things that they changes that will be coming in with universal credit, for could do to provide more places. Will the Minister example, which I think will help with his wife’s choices explain what she is doing to set such sites free from about going out to work. Also, the personal allowance bureaucracy? Will she also lay out what she expects will rise to £10,500 from April 2015. Based on the from local authorities—or, indeed, from local educational figures he cited, my constituent may be one of the chains—in terms of sharing services to help parents 400 people in Norwich North who will be taken out of more? tax entirely. He will certainly be one of the more than A second example is the Acorn playgroup in Thorpe 38,000 people in my constituency who will benefit from St Andrew in Norwich, which is rated “outstanding” by our tax changes overall. On top of that, it may just be Ofsted. Staff there are also greatly interested in running that he and his wife would benefit from the tax-free more places for two-year-olds under the scheme I have child care scheme, if she chose to work. discussed, but they are concerned about the pressure of I also welcome the targeted provision of taxpayer-funded having two-year-olds through to four-and-a-half-year-olds child care for families on the lowest incomes. We began in the same limited physical space. Will the Minister with all three and four-year-olds receiving 15 hours a explain how she expects good settings to be able to deal week of free child care, and have gone on to target the with such concerns in the short term? offer at the 240,000 poorest two-year-olds. However, the provision to spend taxpayers’ money in that way is My third example is another nursery school in my nothing if people do not know about it. I am therefore constituency that is rated “good”, the Once Upon A keen to use today’s debate to call on Norwich parents, Time nursery. Staff there raised with me the point that, as well as others around the country, to take up what inevitably, the rate paid for the free provision—it is of they are now entitled to by law. course paid for by taxpayers and is free only at the point of use—differs from the market rate. Other settings In Education questions last week, my hon. Friend the have also expressed concern about that, and I am sure Minister confirmed to me that 1,537 two-year-olds in that the issue is not unknown to the Minister. our shared county of Norfolk are now enrolled in the programme. I am pleased to see that number of families Another outstanding local setting, the Montessori on lower incomes making the most of the help available group, raised a parallel point with me. It finds it hard to once their child turns two, but I think that the number cater for 15 hours of sessions, provided for free, to three actually represents fewer than half of the eligible children and four-year-olds, even though it believes that it is in our county, according to the figures published when crucial to provide quality full-time child care. Its problem the Minister first made the announcement. Will she is the combination of, as it were, part-time and full-time confirm, either today or perhaps by letter later, whether children. Will the Minister explain how she thinks a that is one of the lowest percentages of target met by a good setting should be able to deal, in a mixed market, local authority in the east of England? That appears to with issues about the rate and—to use a horrible word, be suggested by table seven on page 20 of the Family but I suspect the right one for the problem—sessionality? and Childcare Trust’s 2014 survey, so I would be interested Another example comes again from Magdalen Gates to know whether that is indeed the case in our shared pre-school. It told us about the importance of language county of Norfolk. In any case, I strongly urge Norwich skills in early years. That is certainly one reason to value families to take up the taxpayer funding that has been good-quality early years provision, because it can help put aside, and say to constituents that if they are not children to develop social skills and vocabulary. Evidence sure whether they are eligible, they should please check suggests that once an attainment gap opens up, it is the county council website, because that funding is incredibly hard to close it in later life. I think all of us there to help them. Government Members share a passion for helping people Turning to issues of quality, I want to be absolutely to move to where they wish to go in life. By the time clear that I want more great child care available for they start school, poorer children are already behind children, just as my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport and are somewhat trapped. They can be up to a full (Caroline Dinenage) has described, and I want to be 18 months behind their richer peers in vocabulary 259WH Child Care2 APRIL 2014 Child Care 260WH

[Chloe Smith] children in Norfolk taking up places is a high 92%. I understand that the Family and Childcare Trust survey development. That is just not good enough for those of was conducted last autumn, so those data are less us who believe that life is about where one wants to go, recent. I will write to my hon. Friend to confirm the not where one started from. data and their source so that she can have all the The Minister confirmed to me last week in the Chamber information. It would be useful to obtain Norwich that there has been a 25% increase in enrolment in city’s data if we can, but as she knows, they are held by higher-quality early years training. Will she explain a Norfolk county council. We will see what we can do. bit more about what that entails? How can people in my My hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline constituency apply to be part of that as a great career? Dinenage) made some interesting points about affordability. That is an incredibly important message that we might I, too, struggled, with the affordability of child care, as I be able to send out today. know many parents do. We have seen rising costs. My final example comes from Hellesdon Community Under the previous Government, child care costs rose pre-school, another outstanding setting in my constituency. by 50% as they piled more and more red tape on This relates to the thorny question of committee-run providers, but it was all about ticking boxes and not pre-schools, which is well known to the Minister. Does necessarily about getting better outcomes for children. she have any advice for my constituents in such settings, I am pleased to say that, after 12 years of rising who would like to encourage more volunteers to be part prices, we saw a drop in prices, after taking inflation of the committee, to provide the great-quality child care into account, for the first time in England this year. that we are all looking for? That is in contrast to Scotland and Wales. If we look at a nursery place for over-twos, English prices did not go I will draw my comments to a close, because I want to up—in fact, they fell in real terms—whereas prices went hear from the Minister on those points. I am grateful up by 8% in Scotland and by 13% in Wales. The for having had the chance to raise some cases from my Government have taken action to make it easier for constituency. I have made a great effort to survey all the high-quality providers to expand. Previously, providers child care settings in my constituency, and I am expecting had to jump through hoops from both local authorities a deluge of more data that I can pass on to the Minister, and Ofsted. Now, we have said that Ofsted is the sole who I know shares my passion for getting better child arbiter of quality, and if someone is a good-quality care, and more of it, at a price that parents can afford. provider, they are able to open new premises on that basis. 11.12 am We have also got rid of planning restrictions, so nurseries now have the same planning freedoms as The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education schools. They may convert commercial premises into (Elizabeth Truss): I thank my hon. Friend the Member nurseries without having to obtain planning permission. for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) for her detailed analysis I have spoken to a lot of nursery owners who are of the child care situation in her constituency.I congratulate pleased about that new freedom, which means that her on the work she has been doing with parents and good-quality nursery chains can expand. We are also nurseries to get under the skin of the issues they face. funding high-quality child minders, so good and She has identified a number of issues that the Government outstanding child minders can automatically offer two, are working on to make life easier for both high-quality three and four-year-old places. Previously, only 1% of child care providers and parents. places were with child minders, so the change should My hon. Friend was absolutely right to open her enable a big increase in the number of such places. speech by talking about the dual significance of child My hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North care and early education. First, it is important to ensure made some interesting points about Magdalen Gates that children get the best start in life. We know that, at pre-school, and I was delighted to visit that high-quality the moment, children from low-income backgrounds nursery. I was struck by the fact that the nursery is on begin school 18 months behind in terms of language the same site as a school and by what could be done to and vocabulary skills. It is hard for those young children use the facilities and resources in the school better, to catch up during their school career. High-quality working with the local council. One of the things that early education can make a difference. All the evidence we are keen to see is teaching schools reach down the suggests that high-quality teachers who help children to age range and collaborate with private and voluntary-sector develop things such as sentence structure and vocabulary nurseries. Schools and private nurseries are developing through songs, stories and nursery rhymes and by using expertise in how to offer flexible sessions to parents and other techniques such as counting bricks can make a high-quality early years education. In that particular difference. They will help to close our educational gap. case, there is a strong incentive for better collaboration Secondly, child care is important to support working with the school and the local council to see how the parents. In the majority of families across OECD countries, facilities can be used. The Government fund local councils both parents go out to work; it has become an economic to give capital grants to increase the number of two-year-old necessity. However, we do not have to compromise on places. quality to get affordability; we can achieve both. That is We have also made it easier for school nurseries to what the Government are working on. open from 8 am to 6 pm. At the moment, 25% of places My hon. Friend asked a question about the programme in Norfolk are in school nurseries. The figure is higher for two-year-olds in Norfolk. The issue might be about across the rest of the country; a third of all places are the eligibility that is coming onstream this September: in school nurseries which, typically are open only from 3,600 children in Norfolk will be eligible for the currently 9 am to 3 pm. However, if they were open from 8 am to available places available currently. The proportion of 6 pm, that would enable providers to offer the 15 hours 261WH Child Care2 APRIL 2014 Child Care 262WH in more flexible allocations. Rather than three hours We shall soon introduce in primary legislation a over five days, they could offer five hours over three measure under which school nurseries will no longer days, which works much better with a part-time job. have to register separately with Ofsted to take two-year-olds. Our feedback to the provider mentioned by my hon. As I have mentioned, the communication and language Friend the Member for Norwich North is that providers benefits of teacher-led care are very high, and we want are able to charge parents for additional hours. They more schools to provide that care. In fact, academies can come up with different packages. For example, I and free schools are able to open nurseries as well as visited an innovative nursery in the north-west that local authority-maintained schools. Where there is the offers a three hours-plus package, where children get capacity in schools, that is a good opportunity, and as I three hours three mornings a week, then they get lunch have said, there is an opportunity to collaborate with for £1.40 extra, which is affordable for many parents on local private sector providers too. We do not want a low incomes, and which means that the child is getting a Berlin wall, as it were, between private sector providers high-quality lunch of, in this case, Lancashire pasties and school nurseries. They are both trying to do the and homemade pastry, which I tried myself. same job, which is achieving really good outcomes for children, and they can learn from each other. There are all kinds of innovative things that providers can do. We have case studies and models that we can I will give my hon. Friend an excellent example of send to my hon. Friend and nurseries in her constituency child care that I saw when I was in Warrington last about how to schedule and roster services, and how they week. The Evelyn Street pre-school takes children from can offer parents different packages that suit their lifestyle. the age of two on a free programme. The parents of The days when every parent was able to drop their child some of those children pay for extra hours; some do off at nine and pick them up at 12 are pretty much over. not. The pre-school also takes three and four-year-olds. That model does not fit with a lot of parents’ lifestyles It opens from 8am to 6pm, to suit working parents. It is and we need to make things easier for them. led by a high-quality teacher with an apprentice training School-age children—the over-fives—also need child up as an assistant, so it really does all the things I have care. There is a very good example in the constituency talked about, and it also offers child care at a very next door to my hon. Friend’s constituency. Free School affordable price for parents in the north-west. Some of Norwich offers a package for parents of care from 8am the evidence that we have received shows that the child to 6pm, with an excellent after-school club—the Squirrels care it provides is two thirds cheaper than the average club. Again, that is an example of collaboration between market price for child care, so it is possible to have really the school and the private sector nursery, because the high-quality teacher-led care with an affordable price private sector nursery provides the nursery nurses to tag. That is an important message to send out. staff the after-school club as part of their roster. It is all My hon. Friend also discussed the work that the about getting better use of the really excellent buildings Government have done to extend tax-free child care, and facilities we have, using them more flexibly so that which is now up to £2,000 per child. That is a major parents can benefit from them, and ensuring that there extension of the scheme. The previous scheme—the is high-quality training of staff. childcare voucher scheme—was open to only a fifth of We are also piloting the extension of School Direct to employees. Now, if someone is on a low income, they early years teaching, so that high-quality nurseries can will be able to access child care through tax credits or train staff, including early years teachers and early universal credit. If someone is on a mid to high income, years apprentices, as part of their programme. Expert they will be able to access child care through tax-free practitioners in nurseries and school nurseries are leading child care, whether they are self-employed, working the training of the next generation of staff. part-time or working full-time; it does not depend on their employer being part of the scheme. That is a much My hon. Friend asked me about early years teachers. more widely available scheme. It will be easy to use; It is absolutely true that we have seen a 25% increase in people can apply for it on the internet and the money is the number of early years teachers being trained this paid directly to child care providers. year. We have set higher standards, which seems to have attracted more applicants. Next year, we will introduce My hon. Friend mentioned the issue of funding. We the full early years educator qualification, for which have had a historical issue, similar to the issue with students needaCinEnglish and maths, and we are schools, whereby different local authorities have been offering a bursary for an apprenticeship in that area funded on a different basis. We want to sort that issue worth £3,000. School nurseries and private sector nurseries out in the longer term; I have made a commitment to do should be aware that they can hire really high-quality so. One thing that we have done to ensure that local people. Once they have been in the position for three authorities are passing as much as possible of the months, those people can receive a bursary, which again money they receive to the front line, because that money will help to train up highly qualified staff. will help to pay for high-quality staff, high-quality My hon. Friend asked if there is extra advice for materials and high-quality facilities in those nurseries. schools that are taking two-year-olds. Again, a pilot One of the advantages of slimlining the inspection programme has been running with an evaluation. There regime and making Ofsted the sole arbiter of quality is are 49 schools participating, and we are learning a lot of that more money can be used by local authorities, lessons from what schools have told us about how which can put it straight through to the front line rather two-year-olds fit in with three and four-year-olds in than using it to duplicate the work that Ofsted is doing. nurseries, including the best way of organising and We have just announced the early years pupil premium, staffing such nurseries, and the best way to offer parents which we will soon consult on. It is worth £50 million, flexibility. I am very happy to send her that data, so that and it will go on a per-head basis to the most deprived she can discuss with local schools and nurseries in her children aged three and four. If nurseries focus on those constituency the findings of that programme. two-year-olds who are going up through the system 263WH Child Care 2 APRIL 2014 264WH

[Elizabeth Truss] Future of English Heritage [SANDRA OSBORNE in the Chair] they will receive extra financial support on a per-head basis. That might address some of the funding issues that my hon. Friend raised. 2.30 pm This has been a helpful debate. Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): It is a pleasure, Chloe Smith: Before the Minister concludes, would Mrs Osborne, to serve under your chairmanship. I am she comment on the point about volunteers in community pleased to have secured this debate. English Heritage—or, settings? to give it its correct title, the Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission—is a national institution that Dr William McCrea (in the Chair): Before the Minister has guardianship of some of our most treasured responds, I gently say to her that for her complete monuments, buildings and landscapes. The two most speech I have been looking at her back, and that would famous that spring to mind are Stonehenge and Hadrian’s not necessarily be acceptable to the Speaker or another wall, but it manages a great variety of sites throughout Chair. The microphone is trying to catch her remarks as the country, as well as fulfilling important duties in the well, so it would be helpful if she looked this way. planning and protection of our national heritage. Elizabeth Truss: I apologise, Mr McCrea, and I am Hon. Members will know that the Government have very grateful for the opportunity to serve under your consulted on a new model for English Heritage, which chairmanship— would see a new charity established to take over the conservation and management of the national heritage Dr William McCrea (in the Chair): Dr McCrea. collection, while other responsibilities would remain with a smaller, renamed non-departmental body. The Elizabeth Truss: Sorry—Dr McCrea, I am very grateful proposals have been welcomed in some quarters, and to serve under your chairmanship and I hope that I greeted with concern in others. The Department for have not caused any offence. I am afraid that I got so Culture, Media and Sport is working on its response to over-excited by the examples that my hon. Friend the the consultation, and I hope today will provide an Member for Norwich North was giving and by the opportunity for hon. Members to ask questions, to excellent comments from my hon. Friend the Member voice any concerns or hopes for the future of English for Gosport that I made a terrible error. However, I Heritage, and to contribute to the Minister’s thinking. apologise, and I will address the remainder of my remarks to you, Dr McCrea. The duties of English Heritage are set out in statute in the National Heritage Act 1983. They are to secure We have had a very useful discussion. Quite often in the preservation of historic sites and monuments, to debates about child care and early education, we can get promote the preservation and enhancement of conservation stuck talking about the high-level numbers. What is areas, and to promote the public’s enjoyment of ancient really important, however, is what is happening on the monuments and buildings. I am lucky to live near ground. It is the quality interaction between well-trained wonderful Durham university, which has a fabulous teachers, apprentices, teaching assistants, early years archaeology department where, some time ago, I studied educators and the children that is really important. mediaeval archaeology for a couple of years and looked What we as a Government want to do is make the in detail at the work of Sir Charles Peers who was, as structures as simple as possible. Yes, we want good colleagues may know, responsible for acquiring many of accountability and high-quality Ofsted inspection. One the sites for what was then the Ministry of Works. He thing that I have done as a Minister is give Ofsted more was responsible and accountable, but was not always money to recruit high-quality inspectors to the early viewed in the best light by archaeologists because he years sector. However, we also want to ensure that the swept away much of the archaeology from many sites professionals who work in this sector have the opportunity and replaced it with immaculate lawns. That is what we to exercise their own professional judgment. are left with today. On the subject of volunteers, I completely agree with The commission recognises that it is probably best my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North that known for its work in looking after the national heritage there are some very interesting models indeed of nursery collection. The collection spans more than 400 historic co-operatives in which parents are used to help support sites and monuments that are open to the public, as well children in the nursery, and encouraging volunteers and as more than 500,000 artefacts and 12 million photographs volunteer structures is an important part of what nurseries in its public archives. The sites range from Roman ruins do. Again, the system needs to be as open as possible, to to a 1960s nuclear bunker, and I am reliably informed enable people to participate. Yes, we need high-quality that the collection includes both Charles Darwin’s diaries training and standards, but we could do more for the and the Duke of Wellington’s boots, although I have voluntary sector, the private sector and maintained not seen them. It hosts 11 million visitors every year, as schools to enable them to work together to get the best well as 445,000 free educational visits. quality outcome for our children. However, English Heritage’s work is far wider than 11.29 am just the collection. It has just under 75,000 members, Sitting suspended. who contribute to self-generated revenue, and gives out £24 million in grants every year for conservation projects. In addition, it advises the Government on heritage protection, designates places of significance to be listed for statutory protection, and advises owners, developers and local authorities on development decisions. In total, the commission advises on more than 17,000 planning 265WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 266WH applications every year, and it would be helpful if the expected to become self-sufficient. Over the eight years, Minister explained his assessment of developer-funded the Government plan to withdraw the grant in aid, and archaeology in this context and advice to local authorities expects the charity to be self-financing by 2022. The on conservation areas. We have some conservation areas remainder of the commission’s duties will continue to in my constituency, and any tampering with decision be performed by a non-departmental public body, to be making on them will garner a huge amount of interest called Historic England. Those duties will include advisory when it comes to residents’ attention. and planning roles, and will continue to be funded by Will the Minister also explain how the quality of grant in aid. preservation will be guaranteed in future? English Heritage English Heritage does not mind the reforms in principle, is the custodian of last resort for heritage sites that are particularly the ability to raise revenue through at risk and not otherwise being cared for. It would be a philanthropic and commercial opportunities. As would tragedy if the quality of curation that English Heritage be expected, it welcomes the offer of the up-front £80 has managed to achieve were diminished. English Heritage million to tackle the significant backlog of conservation is currently a non-departmental public body. Its work is work needed for the collection. Concerns have been funded mainly by a departmental grant. Last year, its expressed about the practical realities of the new model, funding streams included grant in aid of £103 million, and the risks that might arise in future. The most and just under £57 million was self-generated through significant concerns, as the Minister will know, centre membership, entry fees, retail and catering. on the financial model, and whether a charitable English The reason for this debate is that the future funding Heritage can realistically achieve self-sufficiency in the and structure of English Heritage is uncertain. In December time frame allowed and retain it for the long term. 2013, the Government published a consultation outlining There is a basic concern about the nature of the a new model for the organisation, and closed it in early collection. English Heritage’s collection is not the same February.The model proposed would see English Heritage as the carefully selected portfolio of the National Trust, split into two separate bodies. One part would retain the which can turn down sites or choose to take on only name “English Heritage” but would become a charitable new properties that come with an endowment to fund enterprise and would take on the management of sites their upkeep. English Heritage has sites that have been in the national heritage collection. The charity would be gathered over decades—or inherited by the nation—because fully responsible for the conservation and public use of of their historical significance, and rarely because of sites, and would manage the collection for eight years. their commercial potential. Many have been taken on The Government’s intention is to give the charity an by English Heritage because it is the owner of last £80 million one-off investment to tackle a significant resort. backlog of conservation defects. That backlog has arisen, Some 250 English Heritage sites—more than half the even with the grant-in-aid funding and the current collection—are free at the moment, so the public can arrangements, and there is concern that such a backlog gain access to them without having to pay. We are could occur again. We need to know what the Government talking about ruined abbeys and bits of old Roman wall would do in that circumstance. that families visit as part of a walk through the countryside. The place that springs to my mind is Egglestone abbey, Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): close to where I live in the constituency of my hon. I declare an interest as a member of the all-party group Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen on archaeology, which I helped to set up, and as a Goodman). It is one of the most beautiful places in the former student of Mesopotamian archaeology, which is north. It is a ruined abbey set perfectly in the landscape. slightly earlier than the mediaeval architecture that the It benefits from not having commercial activity or gates hon. Lady studied. Does she share my concern that in and tea shops and other buildings around it. The ruins some of the projections in the proposals, there seems to have been there for centuries, and it would be a real be no allowance for the fact that there will be a lot of shame if visitors were charged to visit the site in future. disruption during the catch-up repairs that many properties The Society of Antiquaries has tried to remind us will need, requiring many of them to close or part-close that it is dangerous to present the collection as a portfolio for a long time, which will seriously impact on the of visitor attractions. It is a portfolio of national heritage, revenue they bring in in the next few years? and less than half the sites are considered capable of generating income. There is some perhaps healthy scepticism Jenny Chapman: The hon. Gentleman makes a good over whether the collection has enough revenue-making point. As a student of mediaeval archaeology, I believe properties, and will be able to generate enough of a it could be a fabulous opportunity to engage more surplus to subsidise the rest. people in our historic sites and to allow them to take Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con): The hon. part in or to witness the improvements, and to see the Lady is absolutely right that the majority of English defects being put right. For me, there is nothing better Heritage properties are what are known as unroofed than going into a building that is in a state of disrepair, and operate mainly on a maintenance basis. If English where façades have been removed and rafters are exposed. Heritage is to become self-sustaining in terms of revenue, That is a great opportunity, and I would like to see it will need to concentrate on the 130 properties that are visitors welcomed. The revenue they would bring should currently charged for. To become self-sustaining within be in to be included in the process. English Heritage has the period will be a huge task, and it is not at all clear become quite good at that over the years. what will happen if it fails to do so. The money that English Heritage will spend on defects will be matched by another £83 million raised by the Jenny Chapman: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman organisation from third-party donations. It is hoped for that intervention, because that is precisely the reason that that will give a boost to the charity, which will be for this debate. In principle, there is no objection to the 267WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 268WH

[Jenny Chapman] The Minister should hope for success, as we all do, but it would be reckless not to plan for failure. We have proposal, but there is deep concern about how realistic not seen what the Government have in mind. If the it is. All Governments have a track record of rushing costs do not work out, the sites are too expensive and into reforms with the best of intentions, but it would be visitor targets are not hit, what happens? There is a disgrace if this were allowed to fail. We need to know particular concern about what happens if the charity how the Government plan to act should that happen. ends up with a shortfall: where does the money to plug Moving on from the sites to those going to see them, that gap come from? It could be pulled from the budget the National Trust has pointed out that the targets for of Historic England, which would have a consequence. membership and visitor numbers, on which the new It is intended that Historic England will protect a much model relies, are what it would call ambitious. The greater array of heritage sites than just the national predicted growth in membership is 86% over the next heritage collection. Will the Minister update Members 10 years. Even in its most successful decade, the National on his departmental plans to ensure the model is sustainable? Trust grew its membership by only 20%, and the trust is What contingency and risk management plans are being five-star outstanding in terms of its membership put in place in case self-sufficiency is not reached in the organisation. If it questions the nature of the membership 8-year time frame? target, I would listen very carefully. The model is also Another concern that I want to touch on, which reliant on visitor numbers going up by a predicted third. many of the respondents to the consultation brought I hope that that is the case—we want this to work—and up, is English Heritage’s duty has as the owner of last that we see English Heritage attract more and more of resort. The consultation makes welcome reference to our constituents to enjoy its sites, but it is quite a leap, the fact that that will continue to be the responsibility of and many of us are worried about what would happen if English Heritage, but there is an obvious question: will we fail to make that leap in membership, visitor numbers extra funding be made available should an urgent acquisition and revenue. be necessary? I have set out some of the general concerns that have Tim Loughton: The hon. Lady makes good points been expressed. I genuinely look forward to hearing about dodgy projections. Does she share my concerns from colleagues about their concerns, and to hearing about visitor numbers? The number of visitors to English what the Minister has in mind. My constituents, and I Heritage sites in 2002-03 was 5.5 million. Ten years think citizens all over this country, care a huge amount later, in 2012-13, it was 5.1 million, yet there is a big about our shared national heritage. They also care increase in the numbers forecast for the next few years. about the quality of curation, conservation and Of course, a fifth of visitors to English Heritage sites at preservation. They care about the open access that they the moment go to Stonehenge, where the entrance fee currently enjoy to many sites, and they are concerned for the fantastic new visitor centre has been raised from that buildings should not be lost and that as yet £8 to £14.90. There has been quite a lot of grumbling by undiscovered archaeological sites should not be tampered potential punters wanting to go there. with lightly. I genuinely look forward to the Minister’s response. Jenny Chapman: I had not realised that it was almost £15 to go and see Stonehenge. That is well out of the reach of many family visitors, although I assume the 2.48 pm pricing policies are used to encourage membership. Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): The whole House Perhaps that has something to do with it. The hon. owes a debt to the hon. Member for Darlington (Jenny Gentleman’s point about the volatility of visitor numbers Chapman) for securing the debate. I declare an interest is worth considering. as a member of English Heritage. The image on this The Heritage Alliance and the National Trust both year’s membership card is a statue of King Richard III, point out how volatile visitor numbers are. They suggest whose mortal remains were recently discovered in a car that a sudden emergency such as foot and mouth, or park in Leicester—an outstanding feat of English even a couple of wet summers, which happen fairly archaeology. We now await the decision of the courts as frequently, can completely change the revenues and the to which of our noble cathedrals those mortal remains cost of welcoming visitors to the sites. They both expressed will be buried in. the view that unless and until new English Heritage is able to build up reserves, the model must be considered I hope the House will allow me to make a short financially precarious. That is not a situation in which contribution to this debate in my capacity as Second we want to leave our historic monuments. Perhaps the Church Estates Commissioner. I will fully understand if Minister will explain how he decided that a charity the Minister replies in writing rather than responding at would be the best structure. What governance arrangements the end of the debate, given all the questions that other will be considered for the charity? We need a lot of Members are going to ask. safeguards before we can feel confident about that. Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): To all The National Trust recommends that the building of Members. reserves should in itself be included as a measure of success—I would make it a requirement of the new charity—so that we can have confidence that the charity Sir Tony Baldry: Yes, to all Members. will be able to survive unforeseen events such as extreme From the Church of England’s perspective, I will weather, flood damage and fire damage. More generally, emphasise three points raised in the consultation on the the whole sector is concerned about the need for a proposed split of English Heritage. As currently constituted, contingency plan if the new model does not live up to English Heritage plays an important role in progressing the expected targets. and sharing new discoveries in building conservation. 269WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 270WH

The fact that the research specialists have their own churches, is some 11 million people a year, which is estate on which to conduct trials and see problems at equivalent to current visitor levels to English Heritage first hand means that they have a wide and deep knowledge properties. We ask that the importance of ecclesiastical of complex conservation issues. There is a risk that the heritage not in the care of English Heritage be given split will isolate those conservation specialists from the due weight in funding decisions. estate, and thus weaken the progress of their research. As Members will appreciate, churches are among the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, most complex historical buildings. The Church of England Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): I hope my right has within its stewardship 16,000 churches, 12,500 of hon. Friend welcomes the £20 million that the Chancellor which are either grade I or grade II listed. If everyone announced specifically for cathedrals alongside the new thinks of their local parish church, work will often have money for English Heritage. The Government are putting been done over many centuries, so we obviously have a £100 million into our heritage. considerable interest. Several major churches are currently involved in the nanolime trial research project for stonework Sir Tony Baldry: Of course I welcome that money, conservation. Such research is valued by many across and I have taken every conceivable opportunity to welcome the heritage sector, and it would be an enormous pity if it. I have written to every colleague. that work were either weakened or lost.

Secondly, English Heritage’s current role as a heritage Mr Vaizey: Not to me. advocate to Government is invaluable. As a whole, I suspect that the Church of England is big enough to defend and promote itself, but heritage is clearly not Sir Tony Baldry: Every colleague with a cathedral in our primary purpose. The Church of England’s primary their constituency. My constituency is a few miles from purpose is the care of souls, and English Heritage’s role Christ Church cathedral, which benefits from Henry in taking up the banner for the contribution of the VIII’s munificence, so it does not count in that context. heritage sector is key. The loss of English Heritage’s I have praised the funding at Church Commissioners cathedrals team in 2009 demonstrates what happens questions, and I kneel before the Chancellor whenever when such advocacy is lost. For the past five years, until he passes to thank him for the £20 million for cathedrals. the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s welcome recent Budget We now need to start working on other bids. Of course announcement of £20 million to help with the maintenance we are grateful for the money we have received, but that and repair of cathedrals, there simply was no national has to be seen in the context of the estimated £87 million- funding for pure building repairs to cathedrals, which worth of urgent and essential repairs that our cathedrals led to an £87 million shortfall that now has to be need. I suspect that we will get some match funding for addressed collectively. Without English Heritage to speak that £20 million, but these are complex issues. up for cathedral repairs, cathedrals had to fight long Research into historical buildings and their treatment and hard to be recognised as the key heritage assets that is important work undertaken by English Heritage using they are. With the statutory side of the new English its own properties. That work must not be lost by the Heritage being potentially vulnerable to ongoing and new charity, which might not be able to prioritise that understandable reductions in Government funding, the work due to limited resources. If the new charity does Church of England needs to warn now that it would be not take on the conservation research team, Historic disastrous if that loss of advocacy were to spread across England should be allowed to access the national heritage the heritage sector. collection for research. The outcome must be that either Thirdly, the Church of England has its own action the new charity or Historic England is required to plan under the national heritage protection plan and research historical building preservation. has found the NHPP to be a useful mechanism for The advice provided by the present English Heritage marshalling projects and prioritising work. We feel strongly to the Church of England through its response to that the NHPP should continue to form the business faculty consultations, to staff membership of diocesan plan for heritage and should be held and managed by advisory committees and to the Cathedrals Fabric the statutory side of English Heritage. That is linked to Commission for England is extremely valuable. That my point about advocacy, as it is incredibly valuable for input helps to keep the ecclesiastical exemption strong heritage organisations to be able to unite under the and robust, and the advisory work should continue with NHPP banner and for the Government to see that, in Historic England and be free at the point of delivery. that way, English Heritage speaks for the sector as a The nation’s built heritage is an extremely valuable part whole. A strong English Heritage means a strong heritage of our national life. sector that contributes to growth, renewal and community. We are sympathetic to what the Minister and his In addition to those three specific points, which I ministerial colleagues seek to achieve. Indeed, I personally emphasise, the consultation document asked a number and the Church of England as a whole are extremely of specific questions, and it may help the House if I grateful for the support that we receive from Ministers share the Church of England’s response to a small in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. The number of those questions. Although we agree strongly Minister’s fantastic and outstanding advocacy within with the proposed benefits of the new model for the Government for financial support for cathedrals was national heritage collection, we are concerned that the evidenced in the recent Budget, but it is important that new charity may have an adverse impact on the funding we get right some of the important structural and available to churches, as the charity is likely to make organisational issues in the Government’s proposals, so strong demands on the Heritage Lottery Fund. The I hope the Minister will consider carefully the Church number of visitors to cathedrals, not counting other of England’s responses. 271WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 272WH

2.56 pm course, with the abolition of the Greater London council and the acquisition by English Heritage of Kenwood Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): I house and Marble Hill house. congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington That glorious confection of stuff, if I can call it that, (Jenny Chapman) on setting out the issues with such which would and could be affected by the split between clarity and measured determination. Thirty years ago English Heritage and Historic England is at the heart of this week, I stood in the Banqueting house alongside the concerns being expressed. I will refer to the excellent Lord Montagu of Beaulieu and various others at the articles by Nick Clark in The Independent in December launch of English Heritage. I am not sure whether I last year and March this year, in which he raised some should call them interests, but I declare that I have of those concerns, particularly in reply to an early perspectives. First, I was public affairs adviser to English analysis of the responses to the plan. The March article Heritage on its launch in 1984, and I acted in that role stated: for nearly two years. Secondly, I am a historian and was “The Council for British Archaeology said the consultation editor of History Today in the 1990s, when I had a close had been ‘rushed’, leading to a document ‘that has errors and view of all the ebbs and flows of the new organisation. does not provide the level of detail we would have expected to Finally, I am a Member of Parliament for Blackpool, enable us to reach an informed decision’.” where for more than 15 years English Heritage has been It continued: a positive and helpful force, not just for our great “The lack of clarity over future funding ‘casts a considerable buildings, such as the tower and the winter gardens, but shadow over the viability’ of the new body, the Institute for in helping us to celebrate and develop our heritage Archaeologists said in its response…The chief executive, Peter strategy. Hinton, wrote that the Government had failed to provide enough detail ‘to give confidence that the charity can become self-funding’ Only last week, for example, the chief executive of in the eight-year period envisioned.” English Heritage, Simon Thurley, was in Blackpool to My hon. Friend the Member for Darlington and the launch an English Heritage publication on the history right hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) have of the town by the distinguished historian and contributor already made that point. Those important issues have Allan Brodie. English Heritage has also done an enormous to be addressed and cannot be glossed over. amount for the delicate negotiations on Blackpool borough The English Heritage briefing provided for this debate council’s 2010 acquisition of the winter gardens and by Stacey Frier, its senior parliamentary adviser, sets tower, and it has been involved in the delicate repair and out the history, challenges and problems well, but it restoration since. skates on thin ice when it starts to develop what I can only call a cracker-barrel justification for commercial English Heritage has been generally supportive of activity. In particular, I have to take issue with the line Blackpool. The 20th anniversary of English Heritage that states: was marked by a conference and get-together of all its “Running a £78 million visitor business, as English Heritage staff in Blackpool. I pay tribute to the leadership of now does, was beyond the imagination of those who established it Simon Thurley, whom I have known personally for in 1983.” more than 20 years in various guises, and to Henry I can tell the House—I am duty-bound to those individuals Owen-John, the English Heritage north-west planning who were there, and one who is no longer here to say director, for his enormous contribution to Blackpool—his it—that the people who took part in that process were help has been fantastic. English Heritage has supported well aware of how English Heritage might develop in a us with the concept of a museum of popular culture commercial and expansionist way. Was it beyond the and the seaside, and the “Blackpool story” project will imagination of Michael Heseltine, who set it up, or of go before the Heritage Lottery Fund. Colleagues were Lord Montagu of Beaulieu, who remains one of the encouraged by Simon’s positive words last week. most successful historic entrepreneurs in history? Was it English Heritage has contributed to other initiatives, beyond the imagination of Peter Rumble or Jennie such as the creative people and places funding that we Page, who served with great distinction as chief executives? are getting from Arts Council England. English Heritage’s Was it beyond the imagination of Francis Golding, who listening role and support for our sites has been key in was deputy chief executive and subsequently a distinguished many areas. I mention all those things, not simply planner and adviser? He is missed, following his premature because I am a Blackpool MP and I am expected to death in a cycling accident last year. mention them, but because they offer a good case On the contrary, the development of the English history of the multifarious roles that English Heritage Heritage visitor business was at the centre of all those has played over the years in historical advice, planning, early discussions. It was balanced, however, by the need publications support, townscape heritage and initiatives, to reflect the scholarship and to look at how to move and archaeology, which in our case is mainly industrial ahead, how to market, and how to lay the foundations buildings and townscapes. Those multifarious roles have of expansion, while keeping from bastardising the heritage been and remain key to something that is much bigger even as it was popularised. It was about balance and than the sum of its parts. understanding. Even at that early stage—in 1984 and 1985, the commissioners went on what can only be We have heard about the nature of the properties. At described as royal tours of the regions to advertise the the start of English Heritage, as a good public relations new body—there was a balance between visiting Hadrian’s man, I was trying to sum up for journalists the difference wall and looking at heritage properties in Newcastle. between the National Trust and English Heritage, which There was a balance between visiting Kirby Muxloe was a completely new concept. I said, “There are many and looking at the Bosworth battlefield and its differences, but the one that you will notice most is that interpretation. Those things are important, not just most of our buildings have not got roofs on, and most to get the history right, but to understand how we of the National Trust’s do.” That rapidly changed, of resolve these issues today. 273WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 274WH

Of course, the Government’s proposals are a response “many others cannot. Then, of course, there is the issue as to to long-standing funding problems for, and cuts to, whether Historic England will feel pressured into giving expert English Heritage since the 1990s. I am not here to play advice to developers as a means of raising income.” party politics with that, because that happened under Mr Vaizey: That is absolute nonsense. First, the hon. all Governments, although the 32% cut in the English Gentleman says that £80 million will not go very far, Heritage grant in 2010 was particularly difficult. The but I suggest that £80 million goes slightly further than proposal to split is radical. I do not have a problem in no million pounds. It is £80 million of new money going principle with radical proposals, but it is the detail, the into English Heritage properties. To cast the aspersion limits and the sense of holistic connection that people that English Heritage and Historic England will be the are rightly worried by. The big issues remain unaddressed creatures of developers and will be used to raise money, in detail. How will the regional structure of English based on absolutely no evidence at all, is pretty scandalous. Heritage or Historic England be affected, at a time when Michael Heseltine is rightly leading an agenda for Mr Marsden: It is interesting that the Minister should greater devolution? Incidentally, what engagement has be so pricked by that, because I did not say any of those there been with local authorities in particular, and the things. Local Government Association in general? What will happen to the focus, balance and remit of the publications, Mr Vaizey: You did. broad and specialised, that come out of English Heritage? Mr Marsden: No, I did not. The Hansard record will Where will they reside? What will happen to the support bear out that I said that these were the fears and for archaeology? concerns of a friend—[Interruption.] Will the Minister What will happen to the subtle connectivity between allow me to finish? He has had his say. He must come English Heritage and what is proposed to be called back with reasoned arguments as to why those concerns Historic England? That connectivity will not necessarily will not be realised. I accept that £80 million is a lot of be reflected in the formal arrangements. The English money, but we are talking about a settlement that Heritage press release refers to the national heritage should endure not for seven or eight years but for 20, 30 collection being run by the Historic Buildings and or 40 years, or whatever is a reasonable period of time. Monuments Commission for England—that is, English It is not unreasonable for outside bodies to raise the Heritage—on its behalf. I feel a bit queasy about that issue of whether the settlement is is appropriate. phraseology. It is almost as if it is another gorgeous For good or ill, this is the biggest single shake-up in little jewel box that we will simply wrap up in a candyfloss the heritage landscape for 30 years, yet the plan remains “Downton Abbey” format. English Heritage sites are veiled. Access to the business plan is restricted. If it is both grand and gritty, as my hon. Friend the Member not, the Minister can tell us today when he will make it for Darlington has said, but the connectivity between available to the House. I want to make it clear, before he the grand and the gritty is important, as is support for tries to misrepresent me further, that I am not opposed the difference between them. to the principle of the division, but the devil is in the The Heritage Alliance has made criticisms regarding detail, as he knows. It is the duty of the House and of the ability to hold those things in balance. Its submission Members present to ask specific questions about the states: devil and the detail. The Opposition spokeswoman, my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen “The financial projections…presented to support the case for the charity to achieve financial viability…were inadequate to Goodman), and the Minister obviously have restrictions form an informed judgment. The risk of failure is high and the on the time available for them to respond, but I challenge Government must set out contingency arrangements. The potential the Minister, given the huge change, to hold proper for conflict of interest between the new Charity Board…and the full-length debates in this House and the other House, Historic Monuments and Building Commission for England…is in Government time, about the Government’s proposals. not resolved. The pressure to generate revenue should not favour investment in those with commercial potential. The whole Collection Mr Vaizey: I am not in charge of Government business, is a national resource for public benefit.” but I will happily arrange for the hon. Gentleman to I come back to some of the subtler themes. We are meet the chairman of English Heritage. All hon. and not simply talking about wonderful heritage assets for right hon. Members present are welcome to come to a tourists, however important they are; we are talking meeting with the chairman, and to put to him whatever about the body of landmarks in our nation’s history. points they wish to make. Before English Heritage, the Historic Buildings Council Mr Marsden: With all due respect to the Minister, his and the Ancient Monuments Board had great scholars, offer, which is gracious and accepted, does not address but did not punch above their weight with the wider the overall issue—[Interruption.] Will the Minister let public, or reach a wider audience. English Heritage has me finish? We have already had a number of informal been able to square that circle effectively. meetings at which these issues have been raised. I am I quote the observations of a distinguished historian talking about a proper debate on the Floor of the who is a friend of mine: House—I know that the Minister is not in charge of “The new statutory body is set up by these means and funded that, but he could talk to his Whips—at some point in for seven years, but what is happening thereafter….£80 million is the next few months, during which we could discuss the also trumpeted as a means of immediately repairing and maintaining matter. the ‘collection’ of buildings, but it won’t go far and again will come to an end, leaving…a lot of particularly fragile, ruinous Mr Vaizey: My limited understanding of parliamentary structures at the mercy of fragile local trusts to run them and pay procedure is that the Opposition have a number of for expensive repairs. Stonehenge may pay its way”— debates each week. Perhaps the hon. Member for Bishop or possibly not, given the price increase we have heard Auckland (Helen Goodman) will give up one such about today— debate to this subject. 275WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 276WH

Mr Marsden: It is the not the Opposition who are English Heritage could play a much bigger role. Those bringing the proposals forward. It is the Government in the development industry, which pays for most of our who should be held to account; it is down to the archaeology, are short of any idea of what service they Government to bring forward a debate. will receive when they undertake the necessary archaeology The Minister faces a challenge of openness and to meet the sustainability criterion of the national planning accountability, as well as one of style. He has got policy framework. English Heritage could prioritise the slightly worked up today, but he is generally an amiable facilitation of service level agreements between authorities guy, which I know because I have seen him on other and the public at large. It would not need to produce or occasions. His style occasionally resembles that of Derren monitor the agreements, but it could be effective in Brown—now you see it, now you don’t—but what we taking the initiative with archaeologists and developers. need from the Minister and his team is more precision, A suggestion was made to the Minister about how that more grit and more detail. English Heritage staff, its relationship could be funded in future, and although I supporters and the general public need all that to have will not say anything in detail about that, there is a role confidence in the Minister’s proposals, which may be for English Heritage and Historic England to play as the best solution. This year marks the centenary of the distributors of funds to local authorities that sign up to start of world war one, and I do not want the Minister service level agreements. If a service level agreement is or English Heritage to end up in the situation described signed up to, the developer will know what it is getting in Siegfried Sassoon’s famous poem “The General”: and the funding can be distributed. “‘He’s a cheery old card,’ grunted Harry to Jack… That is an important role that English Heritage and Historic England could play in the development of this But he did for them both by his plan of attack.” area. It would be far from turning English Heritage into a creature of development, but would recognise who 3.14 pm pays for the archaeology in this country. Something John Howell (Henley) (Con): I declare an interest as a should be given back to the developers for their contribution fellow of the Society of Antiquaries of London. to the preservation of our heritage. Today’s debate has centred on the conservation and management of English Heritage properties, and I 3.20 pm understand why, but I want to move the debate on to Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): the bigger picture, because English Heritage is responsible It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, for much more than that. The hon. and right hon. Mrs Osborne. Members who have spoken have alluded to that, but have not concentrated on it. For example, English Heritage’s I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for relationship with local authorities, which manage in Darlington (Jenny Chapman) not only on securing this excess of 95% of archaeology, is perceived to be in need important debate on the future of English Heritage, but of improvement. on the measured and informed way in which she set out As we move forward into the Historic England situation, the issues involved. I also take a moment to thank the there is a need for some robust taking-by-the-collar and right hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) for shaking out of what is happening. We are in a period of his special pleading on behalf of cathedrals and successfully change in the archaeological world—quite radical change, getting more money for them in the Budget. If the in some cases, and it needs to be made more radical Minister could see to it that some of that money comes through English Heritage’s role in the whole exercise. I the way of Durham cathedral, that would be great—I have recently examined the relationship between thank him. archaeology and local government services. English Heritage I endorse many of the comments made by my hon. was interviewed as part of that work, and it can play a Friend the Member for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden) substantial role in taking the discussion forward. The in his excellent speech. I will comment on the impact of planning system is where archaeology comes into contact the Government’s proposed changes to English Heritage with the real world, and the arrangements need to be in the north-east and in my constituency in particular, worked out in greater detail. but I will first speak more generally about the vital role The current backlog was mentioned earlier. I am sure of English Heritage in securing our national heritage. If that the issue can be raised at different levels, but the Minister will forgive me, I will set out a series of English Heritage told us that the problem with trying to anxieties about his proposals. If he could come back to make the process of museums accessing archaeological me with some reassurances, that would be helpful. material more robust is the limited amount of control As we have heard, English Heritage was set up by the that English Heritage has. Almost every piece of Roman National Heritage Act 1983, so it has not had a huge brick found on an excavation is bagged up and sent off amount of time to get established. I am not sure that in a box, at enormous cost, to be put into a museum the Government have yet demonstrated clearly why collection. We do not need to keep every piece of there is a need for change, beyond the assertion that the Roman tile or brick. We need someone to make a system is not working. English Heritage had three prongs judgment about the importance of finds. It would be to its activities: to preserve ancient monuments and easy for English Heritage to set a scope for that in its historic buildings; to promote the preservation of the dealings with local authorities and archaeologists, but it character and appearance of conservation areas; and to cannot, because the list of what should be included and promote public enjoyment of such areas. If the Government how it should be accessed is the responsibility of Arts are promoting change, they need to be clear about the Council England. English Heritage needs to do some particular aspect of English Heritage’s work on which it work to wrest that responsibility back to where it needs was not delivering. That case has not been made. The to be. Government, however, plan to create a new charity arm 277WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 278WH of English Heritage to manage the national heritage culture of the three saints buried at the site, Cuthbert, collection and a new non-departmental organisation, Bede and Oswald. I could go into its many other points Historic England, to carry out English Heritage’s statutory as well. Critically, the whole of the centre of Durham is duties. a conservation area in order to preserve and protect the I am concerned about the Government’s proposed area around such an important historical site. changes to the national heritage collection, but in the I agree with the Minister that there is a strong role for time available I want to focus on the possible impact of local authorities in protecting the quality of our built the proposed changes to English Heritage’s role as and historic environment and in deciding what goes statutory adviser and consultee on heritage sites outside into the buffer zone surrounding world heritage sites or the collection. English Heritage has a broad remit to ends up in conservation areas. That role for local authorities, manage the historic environment of England beyond however, has been supported and strengthened over the the 400 or so sites in the collection, which includes years by advice from English Heritage. scheduled ancient monuments, listed buildings, registered parks and gardens, and conservation areas in England. Mr Vaizey: Nothing will change under Historic England, A key part of the English Heritage remit is to advise the which will still carry out that role. I cannot see the Secretary of State on policy and in individual cases concerns. such as the registering of listed buildings and scheduled ancient monuments. That role is vital to my constituency. Roberta Blackman-Woods: It is helpful that the Minister Durham is a beautiful, historic city; we have many such is giving such strong reassurance this afternoon, but historic cities throughout the country, but none of them more reassurance is important given the drastic nature is quite as beautiful as Durham. The role of English of the proposed changes to English Heritage. Particularly Heritage in protecting that environment and in ensuring in its role as a statutory consultee in planning, English that it is there for future generations to enjoy cannot be Heritage is vital. I will give two examples from my overestimated. constituency. English Heritage’s remit includes archaeology, historic The work of English Heritage was essential in getting building sites and areas, designated landscapes and the a public inquiry into a development on the riverside on historic elements of the wider landscape. It also monitors a hugely sensitive site. It supported the call-in, and we and reports on the state of England’s heritage. I am then had the public inquiry, ending up with a much concerned that the Government’s consultation did not better development on the site because of the intervention give enough weight to such a significant part of English of English Heritage, which is doing much the same over Heritage’s role. The organisation also acts as a custodian the proposed development of the County hospital site. of last resort if heritage sites are at risk. Safeguarding Where such advice is ignored, we can end up with poor that role is particularly important in the north-east, due developments, which we have occasionally had in Durham to the region’s unique heritage. Border conflicts have over the past couple of years. I will take the Minister at left a lasting legacy of defensive sites, such as Hadrian’s his word, however, and if he says that that role in wall and, in my constituency, Durham castle. planning advice and as a statutory consultee and adviser will continue, along with adequate funding so that it Jenny Chapman: My hon. Friend mentions Hadrian’s can be effective, that is a good thing. wall. Is she aware that the trust responsible for managing The Minister will have to address some of the issues it has just this week failed, because it was unable to raised by the Heritage Alliance, which points out that make sufficient funds from its commercial activities to the funding settlement is assured only until 2016, and look after the site? that the profile and regulatory nature of the smaller, rump body might weaken its call on central Government Roberta Blackman-Woods: My hon. Friend makes an support, but that heritage is essential to the national excellent point. That is one of the anxieties that I will economy because of tourism and the construction, come to in a moment. creative and cultural industries. The alliance wants funding English Heritage also looks after many other small to be available in the longer term and wants more sites of vital importance in the north-east, which detailed public consultation on the changes. If the has 1,383 scheduled monuments, 1,235 listed buildings, Minister does not think we need more detailed consultation, 287 conservation areas, 53 registered parks and gardens perhaps he will explain why. and six historic battlefields. The north-east region was It is important that we should continue to conserve also an early centre of the conversion to Christianity England’s historic environment and the special areas of and an important seat of learning connected with historic the country that have beautiful heritage and a unique scholars such as St Cuthbert and the Venerable Bede; built environment in need of special protection. all that led to the magnificent Durham cathedral in my constituency, which is regularly voted the country’s favourite building. More recently, the region has been 3.30 pm celebrated for its industrial heritage as well. It was the Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): I congratulate birthplace of the modern railway and home to numerous the hon. Member for Darlington (Jenny Chapman) on collieries, shipyards, lead mines and metal works. Protecting securing this important debate. English Heritage does that heritage is vital to understanding modern Britain. fine work to protect historic places in England, and to The region has two world heritage sites, one of which— preserve the past so that future generations may discover Durham castle and cathedral—is in my constituency. it. I fully appreciate the hon. Lady’s concern that it Durham cathedral is particularly significant because of should remain financially secure, so that key historic its exceptional architecture, such as its demonstration sites, and particularly those that do not attract high of architectural innovation, and the relics and material numbers of visitors, will be protected. However, it is 279WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 280WH

[Caroline Dinenage] Does the Minister agree that in a discussion of how we protect historic buildings, it is crucial that English vital during the changes that English Heritage should Heritage should remember that it is the guardian of our do all it can to allow people to be involved with historic heritage, not that of clerks, curators and museum keepers? sites in their area. That lets them connect with their Fort Brockhurst should offer local people the chance to heritage, and it will help to preserve historic sites and connect with the history of the region, rather than improve their financial viability. Sadly, that is not what being a dusty old store room. It should play an integral has happened to Fort Brockhurst, in my constituency. role in the community. English Heritage says that it My remarks will be blatantly parochial and will deal wants community groups to consider local heritage, and with the performance of English Heritage in my area. that it wants to encourage people to be involved in Fort Brockhurst is an imposing structure built in the preserving history. Unfortunately, however, when local 1850s and 1860s to protect Portsmouth harbour against people tried to help preserve an historic site, they were a French invasion. The sides and top are covered in shut out. Does the Minister agree that it is regrettable grass; clearly Victorian architects assumed that that that they were not only shut out of an old building, but might fool the French. It has a magnificent red brick, were shut out of part of their history? moated keep, gun ramps and fascinating buildings, but Our unique heritage is not something to be kept there is also a massive green space in the middle, which under lock and key. It should be a living thing that local people enjoyed for decades. It played host to many groups and individuals feel they can engage with. I do concerts and even car boot sales over the years, and not know whether the example I have outlined is an other events that brought the community together. However, isolated one. I hope that it is. Does the Minister agree it also brought to life the military history that is such a that, to face the future, we must remember that we and feature of the Gosport peninsula. It became a tangible English Heritage are guardians of our heritage, and asset for generations of youngsters, who grew up proud that there is little point in preserving that as a dusty relic of their area’s role in the defence of the nation. that no one can see, enjoy, learn from or participate in? Unfortunately, such events ground to a halt, and that striking example of mid-19th century fortification is now open to the public for only a few hours a month, in 3.36 pm the summer. Throughout the winter its doors are barred to all comers. It is a gently rotting relic of the past, with Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con): I congratulate no life or role in the community where it used to have an the hon. Member for Darlington (Jenny Chapman) on integral place. Would not it be wonderful if the community obtaining the debate. The proposed change is a huge could rally together to breathe life back into it? one for English Heritage and it is right for us to have an opportunity to consider it in the House. The situation is frustrating, because there exists a community organisation in Gosport that has been willing The Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport, and able to staff the site, provide tours, and maintain which I chair, has taken a close interest in English and restore it. It is called the Gosport Shed. It is a social Heritage for some years. We understand that the budget club for older men, and it gives retired men a chance to of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport has keep active by working with their hands, mending things been under considerable pressure and that within it and learning new skills while meeting new people. As English Heritage has perhaps borne greater reductions many as 800,000 people in England are chronically than some other funding bodies. There is no question lonely, and many are older or retired men. Groups such but that it has had a difficult time. It is a remarkable as the Gosport Shed offer them great opportunities to achievement by the Minister to manage to persuade the make new friends and take up a new hobby. A wonderful Treasury to come up with an extraordinary amount of man called Martin Corrick founded it to help retired money to sustain English Heritage—we hope—in the men battle social isolation and depression. longer term. I pay tribute not just to the Minister but to Originally Gosport Shed struck a deal with English his predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Weston- Heritage to make its home in Fort Brockhurst. It was a super-Mare (John Penrose), who was in the Chamber fantastic example of local people coming together to do until a short time ago, and who, I think, played a something for the community. Maintaining the historic large part. site also offered older people a project to give them a renewed sense of purpose. I know that the local curator The scheme is radical and imaginative, and I welcome was supportive, but unfortunately the group felt that it in principle. The Minister will understand that there English Heritage threw obstacles in its path, until eventually, are one or two concerns, and I hope he will use the its tenure recently became unsuitable and unsustainable. opportunity to set minds at rest on certain points. In The group has now moved out, and thankfully has particular, it is estimated that the backlog of maintenance found a new home at Priddy’s Hard, the home of the repairs for English Heritage properties is of the order of Explosion! museum of naval firepower, which is also in £52 million, which will be funded out of the £80 million. my constituency. Thanks to the Portsmouth Naval Base That is welcome, although I take the point made by my Property Trust, members will help to restore the grounds hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham and the amazing old buildings, and will offer guided (Tim Loughton) about the impact on visitors while the tours of the ramparts. They have been welcomed with work is taking place. However, I should be interested to open arms. Yet, although the Gosport Shed has found a know where the estimate of £52 million came from. The new home, Fort Brockhurst remains locked up, and for Minister will be aware that some people argue that the most of the year is closed to the public. Officially it is maintenance and repair backlog for English Heritage used for storage, although it is beyond me to think what properties is even greater. Indeed, I have seen figures of could reasonably be stored in a damp, decaying building. up to £100 million. 281WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 282WH

The hon. Member for Darlington raised the central pleasure and enjoyment for generations to come. There point of what happens once that money is spent. The is, of course, an economic and financial payoff from the intention is that English Heritage should become self- tourism income it generates for the country, but it is sustaining in the longer term, but only a small number worth doing in itself; it is not a burden but a privilege. of its 400 properties generate serious income. English Our aim this afternoon is to test whether the Minister’s Heritage has a few iconic sites such as Stonehenge, and proposal will achieve those aims. Dover and Kenilworth castles, but an awful lot of its It is logical to put the management of the 420 sites sites do not generate revenue. If there is an expectation into a charitable trust while retaining their ownership that in a few years the property portfolio will be capable by the Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission, of generating the kind of money that will be needed to given the 45% cuts to English Heritage in this Parliament. sustain the required maintenance work, we need a little It is welcome that an £85 million dowry from the more confidence about that, and an indication of what Treasury has been secured and that there will be greater will happen if the target is not met. management freedom to raise money, but will the Minister In particular, we are concerned that Historic England’s guarantee that the sites that are currently free will budget should not be raided and that the new charity remain so? What will happen if other sources of income should not be able to divest itself of certain properties if do not materialise? He is assuming a philanthropic it is not capable of sustaining them. I seek a little more income of £84 million in a climate of huge pressure on detail on that issue. I am also concerned about the philanthropic funds, which other hon. Members have impact that a more aggressive marketing campaign for described. Is that £84 million realistic? What will happen English Heritage properties will have on the heritage if it does not materialise? properties in private ownership. The Historic Houses Local authorities are under massive pressure, totally, Association is having a difficult time, and its life will be if I may say so, caused by the 40% cuts imposed by the made much more difficult if faces tougher competition Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government. from English Heritage properties. To what extent has High-profile sites might attract grants and philanthropic that been taken into account? giving, but what about the others? Even more worryingly, Finally—the Minister and the Opposition spokesman what will happen to English Heritage’s role as custodian need time to make the winding-up speeches—reference of last resort? What if there is another Windsor castle? was made to the role of local authorities. I am deeply What if another building that is not in the English concerned about the extent to which the resource in Heritage or National Trust portfolio is seriously damaged? local authorities, in the form of conservation officers, If Castle Howard has a big fire, are the Government has steadily declined. There has been a massive loss of seriously suggesting they will walk away? What contingency expertise in local authorities, which is making Historic has been made for that? Nigel Hewitson of Norton England’s job more difficult, as well as local authorities’ Rose said: role in preserving the heritage for which they are responsible. “The distinction between English Heritage and the National I wonder whether the Minister would like to say something Trust is that the former is the custodian of last resort…The National Trust won’t take properties on unless they have a dowry about that as well. for future maintenance.” English Heritage does precisely that. 3.41 pm That is far from being an unrealistic risk, as the news Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): It is a from Hadrian’s wall amply demonstrates. The trust set pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Osborne. up to safeguard the wall is to be closed down as a result I must declare an interest, as I am a trustee of Auckland of funding cuts. Staff at Hadrian’s Wall Trust face an castle. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for uncertain future. The body tasked with managing the Darlington (Jenny Chapman) on securing this important world heritage site will be lost. English Heritage has debate and on making such a good opening speech, reduced the funds for Hadrian’s wall management over which gave an excellent overview of the work of English the past three years. We are told that a working group Heritage and the financial issues that have arisen from will be chaired by Northumberland county council, the the Government’s proposals. I did not know she was an partnership will be chaired by Cumbria county council, archaeologist, but it was clear that she did a lot of and there will be a steering group with members from digging in preparing for her speech. the public, private and voluntary sectors. I am sorry to say that that sounds utterly chaotic. People in the I thank my hon. Friends the hon. Members for north-east cannot believe that the Government can Blackpool South (Mr Marsden) and for City of Durham rightly find a lot of money to invest in Stonehenge but (Roberta Blackman-Woods). My hon. Friend the Member cannot get their act together adequately to look after for Blackpool South has been involved in this issue Hadrian’s wall. People do not believe that that would from the very beginning, and he has brought his great have happened if the wall were in the south. It is knowledge and experience to bear. There is no more shameful that the northern extent of the Roman empire, passionate defender of Durham than my hon. Friend marked with wall built 2,000 years ago, is in doubt the Member for City of Durham. under the Tory-led Government. It is amazing that the The quality of the built environment is incredibly Romans were able to build a wall 1,500 miles from their important to people’s well-being, and their sense of capital but the Minister cannot look after one 300 miles place is defined by the buildings around them. Indeed, from his. some buildings become the institutions in people’s minds. Mr Vaizey: Will the hon. Lady give way? Thus, for many people, Parliament is Big Ben, and the Church is their local parish church. Therefore, how we Helen Goodman: The Minister will have an opportunity care for, preserve, enhance and use our heritage sites is to respond in a moment, but I want to hear some incredibly important. If it is done well, it is a source of reassurances about the wall. 283WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 284WH

Sir Tony Baldry: Will the hon. Lady give way? The point is that architecture goes in and out of fashion. That applies not just to modern architecture, Helen Goodman: I would really rather not. but to views of earlier architecture. How boring it The consultation brought forth a series of critical would be if London consisted only of Georgian terraces comments. Heritage Alliance, which has 6.3 million or only of the mediaeval and the modern. A place is members, said that complex and multi-layered, built over time by many generations, and all of those things should be reflected “the direction of travel is ominous…Worst case scenarios must be addressed and contingency plans drawn up.” in the built environment. The Society of Antiquaries of London seriously doubts “that the envisaged charity could become self-funding, while 4.3 pm maintaining standards of curatorial care and property maintenance”. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Doubts have been raised about the capacity of the Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): It is a pleasure to remaining body, Historic England, in the words of the serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Osborne. I have to National Trust, to retain the expertise and capacity say that after listening to a number of speeches during “to protect our historic fabric”. this debate, I now understand why they are called The Historic Houses Association said it wind-ups. “would be extremely concerned if” I congratulate the hon. Member for Darlington (Jenny the expert advisory service Chapman) on securing this important debate on the future of English Heritage. We have had a very interesting “were to be reduced or diluted in any way.” discussion, and I am grateful to all hon. Members who I share those worries. I am tempted to say that that is have taken part. Before I go on to my main remarks, I the greatest risk. An underfunded Historic England want to correct some of the points made by the Opposition would not be able to provide the protection needed. The spokesman, the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland 420 sites are 0.05% of the scheduled ancient monuments, (Helen Goodman). She said that we southerners paid listed buildings and so forth. The other 99.95% will fall for Stonehenge but will not pay for Hadrian’s wall. to Historic England in the Minister’s model. What will Actually, we did not pay for Stonehenge, so we will not happen to them? pay for anything, if you like. The Stonehenge visitor centre was paid for entirely through a fundraising campaign 3.48 pm by English Heritage; it did not use taxpayers’ money. I Sitting suspended for a Division in the House. am very confident, having engaged closely with Northumberland county council, that the arrangements 4pm for Hadrian’s wall, the majority of which is ably managed by English Heritage, will continue after the demise of On resuming— the Hadrian’s Wall Trust. In fact, it will ensure that we can spend money more effectively to support Hadrian’s Helen Goodman: The concern is whether Historic wall. England will have sufficient resources to look after the 99.95% of scheduled and listed buildings. That is extremely I do not think that English Heritage now or in the difficult, given the local authority cuts. Local authorities future would necessarily be in a position to save Castle have been forced to shed 25% of their specialist heritage Howard were it, God forbid, to burn down. I cannot be staff. We would therefore like to hear a clear statement entirely sure of my facts here, but I am pretty certain from the Minister on whether English Heritage intends that no public money was used to restore Windsor to provide advice on a fee-paying basis to some stakeholders. castle when £36 million was spent on it after the horrific Losses as a result of the cuts could be the worst risk, fire in 1992. because it could be a mediaeval dovecote in one place, a The point about the Farrell review was to celebrate Tudor wall somewhere else and a Georgian garden in the fact that the artificial divide between modern architecture another place—none big enough to arouse national and heritage has dissolved. Heritage and modern architects campaigns, but all bringing a loss to local heritage. now work a great deal in partnership, as was shown by No doubt the Minister will tell us about the Farrell the fact that the Stirling prize, traditionally seen as the review of architecture and the built environment. There great modern architecture prize, went to the Landmark are a number of good ideas in that report, but I was not Trust last year for a heritage building that had been immediately attracted to the proposals on cultural heritage. beautifully restored by a modern architect. As someone Is not the proposal to make listing “less academic” code who took the “brave” decision, as my officials would for dumbing down? The Minister is looking puzzled. have described it, to list Preston bus station, I bow to no He wrote the foreword to the report; he obviously has one in my homage to modern architecture, but as someone not read it. Seeking to elide the views of the Design who regards Durham cathedral as one of the most Council with those of English Heritage is surely a way magnificent structures in this kingdom, I also bow to no of suppressing the views of English Heritage. The report one in my devotion to heritage. In fact, that is what has says: led us here today, because I want a fantastic future for “The value of our building stock is no longer just historical or English Heritage. architectural”. I hate to say it, but there was a lot of tilting at That is very worrying. Had we had listing by public windmills during the debate, with a number of hon. opinion polls, St Pancras railway station would have Members saying, “Will the new charity be able to do been demolished 50 years ago. It was only the sustained this? Will it be able to do that?”, suggesting that there campaign by Sir John Betjeman that made it popular in are certain things that English Heritage can do now that the public mind. it will not be able to do in future. However, there is no 285WH Future of English Heritage2 APRIL 2014 Future of English Heritage 286WH doubt that the two new bodies that are effectively being model that we support. It will be supported by the created—Historic England, the regulator of heritage, investment of £80 million, alongside the additional and English Heritage, which will run and manage the £20 million that we have found for cathedrals. It will properties on behalf of the nation—will still have exactly allow essential conservation work to be carried out, and the same powers as they have now. it will allow investment in new projects to build on commercial success and enhance the visitor experience. Mr Marsden: But not the resources. It will allow it to grow its income to become a more resilient organisation. We hope by the end of the eight Mr Vaizey: There is no doubt that Historic England years, the management of the national collection will be will be able to carry out the work that English Heritage self-financing. already carries out fantastically, particularly helping cities such as Durham. The hon. Member for Blackpool Helen Goodman: My understanding was that English South (Mr Marsden) muttered about resources. He said Heritage’s current function as the owner of last resort that I got slightly wound up during the debate, and I should continue. My question was whether there is know that one should not react, but it is mildly galling, enough finance to fulfil that. At the moment, English with £80 million having been found to launch the new Heritage has a number of strategies for saving heritage charity and to clear the huge backlog of repairs, that at risk— people are now muttering about resources. Mr Vaizey: I understand the hon. Lady’s point. Of Roberta Blackman-Woods: Will the Minister consider, course— in setting up Historic England, whether it could be given additional powers to protect our historic environment, Helen Goodman: The Minister— particularly with regard to views around world heritage sites and so on? Mr Vaizey: I am taking back the floor. Helen Goodman: The Minister seemed to walk away Mr Vaizey: That is an interesting point. In no way do from that— I wish to bat back what the hon. Lady says, but we are debating the future of English Heritage as an organisation, Mr Vaizey: I am taking back the floor. The point is and I am obviously a great advocate for that future. She that English Heritage, as now, will be the saviour of last is inviting me, perfectly legitimately, to debate wider resort. That is the point I am making. People see the heritage powers that Government could introduce and change in English Heritage as meaning that any future which organisation would have those powers. I have to problems will somehow be the result of the change in say, without wishing to bind the Government in any the structure. English Heritage is able to take, as an way, that I have a lot of sympathy for her point of view. owner of last resort, a property that is threatened. I, for one, value views and landscapes as much as our There are a whole host of factors that come into play, built environment, and I think that it is important that one of which will be financing. If a property were to we preserve them where we can. come up now, English Heritage might find that it did English Heritage has been in place for 30 years, and not have the financing. That would be a straightforward our system of heritage protection began, broadly speaking, point. a century ago, with the passing of the Ancient Monuments Nothing will change under the new model. English Act 1913. By the way, an excellent book was published Heritage will still be, potentially, the owner of last on that by Simon Thurley, the chief executive of English resort. A whole range of factors, depending on the Heritage. It is available in all good bookshops. As that particular situation, will influence whether it chooses to book and the creation of English Heritage show, the step in. As the hon. Lady knows, when it becomes the system of heritage protection constantly evolves. I take owner of last resort, English Heritage tries to move the on board the point made by the hon. Member for property on. Sometimes it will stay in the national Blackpool South that Michael Heseltine and the other collection, but often English Heritage will want to put it people who were present at the launch of English back with a different owner to continue its future. Heritage—I am thinking in particular of Lord Montagu I have only got a minute left, but I want to make a of Beaulieu—were perfectly capable of imagining the simple and straightforward point. Change is happening, kind of future that English Heritage now sees. However, but the fundamentals will not change. Historic England I think that they would also agree that as that bright will continue its brilliant role as the steward of our wide future comes into being, we must look at the structures historic environment. It will continue to list, it will that support it. continue to research and it will continue to support the It is a fact that the national heritage collection is an hon. Member for Darlington and other hon. Members £84 million business. It attracts 5 million visitors a year who care about heritage. The national charity will, and it needs investment and a long-term plan. That is under a licence from Historic England, manage the why English Heritage has proposed an eight-year properties, which will still be owned by the Government. programme of reform to establish a new model for the management of the national heritage collection. It is a Sandra Osborne (in the Chair): Order. 287WH 2 APRIL 2014 Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration 288WH Enforcement) Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration highlights more general points, such as widespread non- Enforcement) compliance with the guidance and lack of oversight procedures by senior management, who seem to have quite limited knowledge of the power as it is being used in practice. The report highlights visits on purely speculative 4.12 pm grounds and inadequate staff training. It mentions that Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): I am grateful to have significant numbers of staff and management were been afforded the opportunity to raise the treatment of either ignorant of, or choosing to ignore, the guidance. Asian restaurateurs by immigration enforcement officers. It also highlights a lack of understanding of what I seek to make this a constructive debate on a very constitute suitable grounds for a visit, and gives an difficult issue, and I genuinely hope that it will lead to a example of how an allegation should be backed up by more productive relationship between Asian restaurant any available data from, for example, Her Majesty’s owners and immigration enforcement officers. Revenue and Customs.

Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): My hon. Friend Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): My hon. Friend is absolutely right to try to make this a constructive talks about restaurants, but shops are also getting caught debate. Of course, I know that hard-working immigration up in the problem. A judge recently threw out a case officers have to do their job, but was she as disturbed as relating to a business in my constituency, and when the I was when a group of restaurant owners came to the business was finally awarded costs, it received a fresh House of Commons last week and described some of visit from immigration enforcement officers the next the ways in which they and their staff were being day. Although we all want the authorities to carry out treated? Should not the Minister explain why that must their jobs properly, does she see how a business might not happen again? feel particularly targeted in such circumstances?

Nia Griffith: That is a good point. It was distressing Nia Griffith: My hon. Friend describes a distressing to hear some of the stories that we heard last week, case. That procedure being repeated unnecessarily was which is why I have secured the debate. The meeting not only distressing for the shop owner but a waste of that was held last week brought a delegation of Asian public money. In fairness, the inspector says in his restaurant owners from south Wales to the Houses of report that the Home Office began to look at procedures Parliament for a meeting arranged by my hon. Friend that he was highlighting as he carried out the inspection, the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen but there is clearly a lot of work to be done in that Doughty). He had invited representatives from the respect. Last week, we heard about the distressing nature immigration enforcement service to attend, but they of the raids. We also heard about immigration officers were unfortunately unable to do so at short notice. inspecting documents, saying that they were okay and However, my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn then returning two weeks later to say that they were not (Mr Hanson), Labour’s shadow Immigration Minister, okay. If the immigration officer himself or herself cannot attended, and I am grateful for his presence today, even identify the documents, it puts the restaurant owner in a though the rules of debate mean that he does not have difficult place. an opportunity to make the case from the Opposition The Asian Catering Federation says that the problem Front Bench. applies not only to Indian restaurants but to Chinese As my right hon. Friend the shadow Minister said takeaways and Malaysian, Sri Lankan, Thai, Vietnamese, last week, we all agree that we need strict border security Pakistani and Japanese restaurants. The federation stresses and proper enforcement of immigration rules, but the that it wants to co-operate and that the matter is extremely way in which some Asian restaurant owners have been important to it. treated by immigration enforcement officers is nothing I turn briefly to what needs to be done. First, there short of disgraceful, and it is damaging to business. must be continued dialogue with the restaurant owners. Times are tough, so to have immigration officers arriving The federation said that whereas previous visits had at 7 o’clock on a Friday evening, causing distress among taken the form of terrorist-type raids, some progress the customers, slamming the doors and handcuffing the had been made. None the less, what restaurants are still chefs before they can even turn off the cookers is simply experiencing—the shutting down of restaurants at peak not acceptable. It causes not only immense financial time, and the aggressive approach of the enforcement loss on the evening in question, but irreparable damage officers, who give them no opportunity to explain to to the reputation of that restaurant, particularly in a customers what is happening or even to answer the small town, and it will take years to rebuild customers’ phone—has been extremely damaging to their businesses. confidence in returning to the restaurant. That is an That is the first thing: we need continued dialogue, acute embarrassment. Sadly, in some cases, it was even because law enforcement is always better with collaboration found that there were no substantive grounds for going and not antagonism. there in the first place, so it was a complete waste of Secondly, the concerns in the report clearly must be taxpayers’ money. addressed. Thirdly, the whole issue of reasonable grounds The debate coincides with the publication last month for visits must be looked into: why have these visits been of the report by the independent chief inspector of decided on in the first place? My hon. Friend the borders and immigration on the use of the power to Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) gave a clear enter business premises without a magistrate’s search example relating to that. The Asian Catering Federation warrant. The report makes the point that two thirds of wants to co-operate and give the required information, visits to business premises lack the necessary justification. but it must be done in a way that works for businesses, Although the report focuses on a particular issue, it as well as for the immigration enforcement service. 289WH Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration 2 APRIL 2014 Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration 290WH Enforcement) Enforcement) I would like the Minister to look into the matter Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): First, thoroughly and take very seriously the distress and is not one of the problems that, certainly in my experience, problems caused to the industry, which is a phenomenal some restaurants have difficulties in finding trained success story in bringing money into the British economy. staff? That leads to all sorts of other problems, so it I hope that she tries to find ways in which immigration should be looked at. Secondly, there have been too enforcement can be properly carried out without disruption many changes to the immigration law—in fact, some of to many businesses that, in tough times and particularly it is getting confused with terrorist law. It is an area that in less well-off areas, are finding it difficult to keep really should be sorted out, because there have been going. wholesale changes to immigration law over the years.

Stephen Doughty: I thank my hon. Friend for his 4.21 pm intervention. I have made it clear to businesses in my Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ constituency that a shortage of or challenge in getting Co-op): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, labour is in no way an excuse for flouting immigration Mrs Osborne. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for laws, and I do not in any way get a sense that any of Llanelli (Nia Griffith) for securing such an important them wish to do that. In fact, it is quite the opposite: debate and allowing me to speak, and I welcome the there is wide concern on the issue of the immigration of Minister and thank her for her leave to speak in this skilled migrants to this country and ensuring that we short debate. have the right laws in place. I want to concentrate on the two issues I mentioned I want to start by making it clear that, like my hon. near the start of my speech. A few themes have come Friend the Member for Llanelli, I am absolutely committed out relating to the conduct of operations. Raids have to ensuring that immigration rules in this country are occurred during busy periods, with diners being disturbed. robustly enforced, and to ensuring that managed migration Equipment has been left operating and staff have not occurs in a way that is fair, transparent and beneficial been allowed to switch it off. I have heard of staff not for both this country and the individuals involved. The being allowed to switch off woks, tandoors and the gas. many organisations and businesses that I have spoken Of course, significant stigma and embarrassment is to, and that attended the meeting we held the other day, caused, even when no offence has been committed. I am have made it clear that they do not in any way dispute sorry to say so, but it appears that some very heavy-handed the need for robust immigration enforcement in the tactics have been used, and there have been repeat raids, catering and retail sectors, or elsewhere in the economy. despite the fact that the operations are supposedly It is crucial that the House notes that fact. The Asian intelligence-led. Catering Federation, the Bangladesh Caterers Association and many other organisations, as well as many individual I want to mention an example from my constituency restaurants and businesses, have made it absolutely about which I have been in dialogue with the Minister clear that illegal immigration undermines their legitimate for Security and Immigration. Following an enforcement business and the wider economy. No one wants to see visit to a restaurant in my constituency on 7 November people living and working under the radar, undercutting 2013, I was contacted by a number of concerned wages and conditions. constituents—including members of my staff—who witnessed the events. I have since been engaged in I have received representations at recent meetings and to-and-fro correspondence with the Home Office that directly from businesses in my constituency, and two has not resolved the matter to my satisfaction, or, major concerns are coming across to me from the Asian indeed, that of the business. restaurant community and, it appears, from throughout There was an operation by immigration officers at Wales. The first, which my hon. Friend mentioned, is the premises at around 7.30 in the evening. As well as the issue of how enforcement operations are conducted. the restaurant, three of my constituents contacted me Secondly, the advice and support given to restaurateurs to share their concerns about how it was carried out. I and businesses on ensuring enforcement of, and compliance would like to read out a couple of their statements. One with, the law is important. It might interest Members to said to me: know that I produced a leaflet for businesses in my constituency, which is very diverse, to give advice on “I am currently sat in the restaurant and the Border Control how to comply with immigration law. Nevertheless, it is burst in and told the manager to sit in the public seating area and not move. They then went into the kitchen and made the staff a complex area of law, and although many businesses come into the public areas to interview them about their legal want to ensure that they are adhering to it, they often status. I think this is disgusting. The staff should have been do not feel supported in doing so. afforded privacy and been interviewed with dignity. They disrupted the business and then left empty handed.” My hon. Friend mentioned the concern expressed by a number of businesses that some of them, or, indeed, Another witness said: the sector as a whole, are being disproportionately “Immigration officers entered the buildings and gathered the targeted. That must be addressed. Bearing in mind that staff at the waiting area at the front of the restaurant. This took concern, I hope that the Minister can furnish us with place while the restaurant had three or four tables occupied on a clear statistics that will help to restore confidence in Thursday evening. What seemed particularly humiliating for the these operations. I would particularly welcome statistics staff was the fact that they were interviewed in the shop window, on the number of enforcement visits that have taken so that passersby would be able to observe.” place in Wales, their geographical location and sector, That was despite there being the percentage of such visits that have led to arrests and “a large number of telephone orders to be collected, and…a prosecutions, and the number of premises that have queue of customers lined up opposite the waiting area watching received repeat visits from enforcement officers. the interviews. I understand fully the seriousness of the operation, 291WH Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration 2 APRIL 2014 Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration 292WH Enforcement) Enforcement) [Stephen Doughty] also undercuts legitimate businesses, as rogue employers typically undercut the national minimum wage and but I do not believe that questioning people in front of the public avoid national insurance contributions. in this manner was acceptable and must have caused them much embarrassment.” The Government take, and will continue to take, That is one of many examples that have been drawn tough enforcement action to arrest, detain and forcibly to my attention and that of my hon. Friend the Member remove those who are breaking the law by living and for Llanelli. Another, which I will keep anonymised, working in the UK illegally. Immigration enforcement involved 13 immigration officers and two police officers does that by conducting intelligence-based operations attending a restaurant in which I have eaten a number to target illegal immigration, illegal working and the of times. They were there from 6.30 to 9.30 in the criminality that supports illegal immigration. We will evening. Allegedly, people were detained in a corridor also act against those who support and fuel illegal and not allowed to switch off the gas, while a pencil was activity. That is why we have laid before Parliament new taken from a staff member with the suggestion that it regulations that will double the maximum penalty for might have been used as a weapon. Another allegation employing an illegal worker from £10,000 to £20,000. was that handcuffs were used. I have no way of We are also taking action via the Immigration Bill to independently verifying that but, unfortunately, given simplify the process of receiving unpaid penalties. the number of examples cited, I am worried that there appears to be a trend in such operations. The witnesses Illegal working occurs in a wide range of businesses I know are certainly absolutely truthful and would not across the UK, and immigration enforcement targets want to mislead the House or, indeed, the authorities. known offenders, and acts on intelligence received to For the record, the dialogue with immigration officials target businesses believed to be employing illegal workers. in Cardiff to date has been welcome. Many of the We also conduct follow-up checks on past offenders to restaurant owners and associations wanted that on ensure that they continue to be compliant. The catering the record, but the cancellation with a day’s notice of trade receives a significant number of enforcement visits, the attendance of senior officials at a meeting with me, but that reflects the intelligence we receive and the other Members of this House and more than 30 restaurant prevalence of immigration offences in a low-cost and owners from throughout Wales has not done a lot to highly competitive sector. continue that good and fruitful engagement. Despite repeated attempts, I have been unable to make contact The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth with the officers who were due to attend. (Stephen Doughty) asked for the statistics regarding the visits. In the UK as a whole, of the 7,904 illegal working In conclusion, I have three key points for the Minister visits carried out by immigration enforcement last year, to address: first, the conduct of the operations; secondly, around half—3,972—were carried out at restaurants or the support for restaurateurs to help them to comply takeaways. In Wales, from 1 January 2013 to 31 December with the law, as they wish to; and, thirdly and most 2013, 665 illegal working visits were conducted by crucially at this time, reassurance that neither the sector enforcement teams, from which there were 379 arrests. nor specific restaurants are being targeted in any way. The number of visits to restaurants and takeaways was 434. 4.28 pm I recognise the disturbance that may be caused to a The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the business when an enforcement operation is undertaken, Home Department (Karen Bradley): It is a pleasure to especially during peak times, and especially if no offence serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, is encountered. I sympathise with the concerns raised; Mrs Osborne. I apologise on behalf of the Minister for my parents are publicans, so I understand that, when Security and Immigration, who would normally attend someone is running a business, they want to do so as the debate; he is in the main Chamber dealing with effectively, and in as hassle-free a way, as possible. another matter. He has not yet worked out how to be in However, the busy times are when we are able to maximise two places at once, but we are training him. the likelihood of achieving a successful outcome. In the I congratulate the hon. Member for Llanelli (Nia 7,904 enforcement visits made last year in the UK, we Griffith) on securing the debate, which has been very made a total of 7,274 arrests. That shows that our interesting, and I have listened carefully to the points actions are warranted and successful. Our actions are made. We have heard a range of views on the subject of based on intelligence, and immigration officers are carrying illegal working, and I will respond to each in turn. out their statutory duties to investigate that intelligence. Before I do so, it might be helpful for Members if I set We make every effort to verify the strength of the out the background to illegal working and enforcement intelligence received, but inevitably there will be some visits. operations where no offender is encountered. I make no apology for the enforcement of immigration laws. The message we have heard today seems to be that Immigration enforcement staff have a difficult job to that view is supported throughout the House. The British do, but it is best done in co-operation with others, as public expect the Home Office to enforce the law and to Opposition Members have said. I would like to highlight remove those persons who have no legal entitlement to the good relationships and constructive dialogue that live or work in the United Kingdom. We are committed have been established by immigration enforcement staff to tackling illegal working, because it sustains illegal with Asian restaurateurs to keep them informed of their immigration, fuels organised crime and encourages migrants work and purpose, and to equip them with the knowledge to put their livelihoods at risk and place themselves in to recognise and deter illegal working, so that they do the hands of people who exploit them. Illegal working not unwittingly employee illegal immigrants. 293WH Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration 2 APRIL 2014 Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration 294WH Enforcement) Enforcement) Kevin Brennan: In that case, why did immigration illegal cost-cutting activity, and recognise that it is often officials withdraw from the meeting last week at such associated with exploitative behaviour such as tax evasion short notice? Why did they become so difficult for my and harmful working conditions. hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) to contact? Kevin Brennan: Will the Minister give way?

Karen Bradley: I cannot answer specifically on that Karen Bradley: I will not, only because we are running meeting, but there is an excellent relationship with the out of time, and I want to address the specific points Bangladesh Caterers Association. That is a prime example raised. of the relationship that officials have with restaurateurs. We expect to see continued and greater co-operation Regional events take place regularly involving both from the restaurant industry on employers investing in immigration enforcement and the BCA. The previous training and embracing the use of resident labour. The Immigration Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Migration Advisory Committee has repeatedly expressed Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), met the London Chinatown its disappointment at slow efforts by the sector to train Chinese Association, which agreed to co-operate with more chefs. us. We offered it help, saying that if it co-operated with Turning to points raised in the debate, the hon. us and helped us to identify illegal workers, we could Member for Llanelli asked whether there was justification then speak to those workers instead of conducting for visits, and asked whether there was perhaps a lack of raids at peak times. That relationship has since been oversight and guidance. One issue was identified by the working well. report; we have discussed this, and the Home Office is already aware of that and is acting on it. No letters were Nia Griffith: I understand what the Minister is saying, issued or authorised without justification since the report, but one of the issues highlighted in the inspector’s and the power is now being used correctly. The hon. report is the lack of understanding by senior managers Lady also asked about joined-up working—about Her of what is happening on the ground. Could it be that, Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Home Office while there is dialogue between a certain level of official making separate visits, for instance. She is absolutely and, for example, the BCA, what is happening on the right: joined-up working is an absolute priority for the ground does not necessarily reflect those talks? Home Office. We are focusing on streamlining the different agencies looking at illegal working to ensure that the Karen Bradley: I conducted lengthy discussions with number, and therefore cost, of operations is minimised. officials in preparation for this debate, and I have been The hon. Lady asked about the substantive grounds assured and reassured that officials are working hard for some operations. Every operation is based on the with the bodies that represent restaurateurs, and that intelligence that we have at the time, but intelligence is there is a great deal of co-operation between, and a not always perfect. We work on very fine intelligence, desire to co-operate on, both sides. We want to make but have a statutory duty to investigate allegations if we enforcement work. believe them to have a foundation. If we did not follow It is undeniable that, in the industry, there is opportunity those allegations up, we would be criticised for it. for the exploitation of workers who are here illegally, I am pleased to say that the majority of people in the which we need to deal with and tackle. However, the country agree with the Government and want a robust hon. Lady is absolutely right: the best way to do that is stance on immigration and illegal activity. Our illegal by co-operation, which we are actively ensuring. Where working operations must be seen in the wider context of concerns have been raised by restaurateurs—for example, the reforms of the immigration system under the regarding simplifying documentation checks for overseas Government. Our tough reforms are carefully targeted, workers—we have considered them and sought to introduce and we will continue to work hard to bring net migration change where appropriate. For instance, we are reducing down from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of the list of documents that employers have to present at thousands by the end of this Parliament, and to create a right-to-work checks. The first changes will be introduced selective immigration system that works in our national at the end of April. In the longer term, we intend to interest. Put together, our engagement with local focus the checking system for non-European economic communities, enforcement activity and reforms will ensure area nationals on the biometric residence permit. that individuals who have no right to work or live in the While employers sometimes raise concerns about our UK are encouraged to comply with the rules and depart approach, there is also broad support from legitimate voluntarily, but individuals who partake in illegal activity employers for proactive enforcement action against rogue or harbour those who do will always be sanctioned in employers, who are competing unfairly against them. line with UK law. Like the rest of the public, legitimate employers have I am grateful to have had the chance to listen to the concerns about illegal immigration and support the hon. Member for Llanelli and others today. I thank her aspirations of hard-working people from the UK. They again for securing this debate and will reflect further on experience at first hand how businesses are undercut by the points made. 295WH 2 APRIL 2014 Transparency of UK visa bans 296WH

Transparency of UK visa bans public, in the sense of public safety, should the role of a Home Secretary effectively involve acting as some kind of thought police? I am not convinced that we have 4.39 pm gone quite that far, but equally I am not convinced that Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): It is a we should go that far. That whole debate is perfectly pleasure to secure this debate under your chairmanship, legitimate. Mrs Osborne. Putting aside that wider debate, I will focus on a It is often, and rightly, said that the mark of a consequential aspect of this issue. On occasion, the civilised country is who we offer safe haven to. Equally, names of those denied access to the UK have been who we do not let in says something about our moral disclosed in the past, including—as I have mentioned— character as a nation. The Home Secretary has wide where they foster hatred or seek to justify terrorist acts, powers to exclude foreign nationals, and successive or where they might spark inter-community unrest. Governments have stressed that such powers must be Sometimes people are excluded on the basis of their exercised in a way that is reasonable, proportionate and views alone, rather than because of any physical acts or consistent, in accordance with the immigration rules. In any crimes of which they have been convicted. In contrast addition, it should be noted that there is a duty—not to those examples of publication, when I have asked for just a power—to ban certain people who are subject to clarification about whether those responsible for, or EU or UN travel bans. So the powers are there. profiting from, torture have been barred from the UK, I have received the stock answer that the Home Office In 2005, the former Home Secretary, Charles Clarke, does not routinely publicise the names of individuals stated that the power to exclude had been invoked by who have been barred from entry to the UK. successive Governments on the grounds of national security, and after the London bombings of July 2005, Hon. Members will remember that, two years ago, the Home Office published a broader list of “unacceptable the House unanimously called for a UK Magnistky law. behaviour” that could form the basis for deportation or That motion was inspired by Sergei Magnitsky, the exclusion. That “unacceptable behaviour”included fostering dissident Russian lawyer who was tortured to death, hatred that might lead to inter-community violence. then prosecuted posthumously on orders from the Kremlin because he had disclosed the biggest tax fraud in Russian The current Home Secretary made it clear in 2011 history, which was worth $230 million. The answer that that she wanted to take an even more interventionist was given at the time in response to the call from the approach, banning people who hold extreme views even House was that the Government already had adequate if they are not necessarily or directly inciting or promoting powers to impose visa bans or asset freezes, but we do violence. She explained the rationale to the US Council not know for sure when or how those powers are on Foreign Relations, and it is worth quoting her just to exercised. That must be wrong on the grounds of provide the context for this debate: transparency, and in addition to the point of principle “I think it is right that we have taken a slightly different stance about transparency it robs the powers of much of their over the last 18 months as a new Government in looking at this, deterrent effect for those whom we do not want coming because we believe that this issue of words that are said—what to Britain, or applying to come to Britain. people actually say and how they are able to encourage others through the words that they say—is an important issue for us to My requests to find out whether the Home Office had address. allowed entry to any of the so-called Magnitsky 60—the That’s why we have chosen in our Prevent strategy, for example, US list of suspects in that appalling case, who were to look not just at violent extremism but at extremism. I think it’s already publicly barred from America—was met with important that we do so. If we’re able to do that, I think that refusal. When I subsequently asked whether Dmitry enables us to operate at an earlier level rather than simply waiting Klyuev, head of the Klyuev gang and reportedly the until people have gone down the route of violent extremism.” mastermind of the fraud disclosed by Magnitsky, had The grounds for refusal and for exclusion are not limited recently been granted a visa to the UK, again the to terrorist-linked or other violent extremism. A criminal official response was, “No comment.” record, or even just obnoxious views, can get someone That will not do. It cannot be right that, from time to barred. For example, recently, US shock jock Michael time, Ministers publish the names of those who have Savage and right-wing activist Pamela Geller, who is been banned because, for example, they may hold obnoxious also from the States, have been refused entry to Britain. views, yet on the other hand, they refuse to say if Overall, if we look at recent history we see that there alleged mafia, corrupt Government cronies or those is a long list of rather curious characters who have been complicit in torture are allowed in. It cannot be right as excluded from Britain: from Snoop Doggy Dogg and a matter of policy and it cannot be right as a matter of Chris Brown to Martha Stewart; and from Nobel laureate openness. The British public have a right to know. Pablo Neruda and scientologist Ron Hubbard to Dutch In 2012, when he was a Home Office Minister, the MP Geert Wilders. Along with the positively dangerous, hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne), tried to there is a rather rag-tag mix of crooks, kooks and justify that rather arbitrary position when he gave evidence cranks who have been barred from coming here. to the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs. First, he There is a legitimate wider debate around all of this. said that making the names public might lead to the risk Do we risk suffocating free speech because of undue of additional litigation. However, it is difficult to see sensitivity or political correctness if we bar individuals how publicising names adds much to the inherent risk who are not directly inciting violence but are just offensive of litigation based on the substantive decision that was to certain quarters of society? Who decides where to made. If anything, greater transparency and clarity draw that line, or what the objective criteria are for about the criteria for banning people might help to barring people for bad taste or because they may be reduce the risk of judicial review. Secondly, it was regarded by some as insulting? Beyond protecting the suggested that publication was unreasonable because of 297WH Transparency of UK visa bans2 APRIL 2014 Transparency of UK visa bans 298WH sensitivities and confidentiality, but that is wholly untenable. Minister assure the House that these venal men are If there are sound public policy grounds to bar entry, banned from setting foot on British soil, and indeed they should trump personal, let alone diplomatic, niceties. have not set foot on British soil? Finally and even more tenuously, the hon. Gentleman Today, the wider secrecy around visa bans is relevant said that publishing the names might prejudice a trial to the British response to the crisis in Ukraine. The US back home, or put British citizens abroad at risk of list of visa bans is public; the EU list is, too; yet still retaliation. Again, it is difficult to see why the publication Britain’s national policy is not to make public the of a refusal of entry would affect the outcome of any identities of any additional persons who might be subject fair trial back home, and neither is the risk of retaliation to a domestic UK ban. What possible reason can there against Britons abroad any greater as a result of such a be for this? Is it that we might upset Vladimir Putin? Do decision than it is as a result of the countless other not the British people have a right to know whether we decisions that a democratic Government can—and have let in people such as Dmyrto Firtash, the Ukrainian do—legitimately make, which might, at least in theory, oligarch who helped former President Yanukovych into spark some utterly irrational backlash abroad by someone, power—arrested recently in Austria; wanted by the US; somewhere, at some indefinite point in the future. and investigated by the NGO, Global Witness, that I In its 2012 report, the Foreign Affairs Committee referred to earlier. He has a charitable foundation in the rejected the arguments that the hon. Gentleman had UK. Has he entered Britain in the past three years? The put forward. Having received evidence on the Magnitsky British people and Parliament have a right to know. case, it called for publication of the names of those What about Rinat Akhmetov, another Ukrainian denied entry to the UK on human rights grounds. oligarch and sponsor of Yanukovych? He is facing Regrettably, the Government have not accepted that investigation by the Swiss authorities. He reportedly recommendation. owns one of the most expensive apartments in London. Many other Ukrainian politicians-cum-businessmen with There is a far broader point in all of this. If we decide links to UK businesses—specific links to Britain—have to extradite someone from Britain, that decision is a cloud of suspicion hanging over their name for corruption: made public, and if we deport someone from Britain, people such as Yuriy Boyko or Yuriy Ivanyushchenko. I that decision is made public. That transparency is vital, readily and proactively say that the allegations against informing the legitimate debate around the policy and those men might not be true. Maybe they can answer all the law underpinning the relevant powers and the manner the claims that have been levelled against them and can in which they are exercised. rebut the evidence. They should certainly have that Legislation that deals with deportation is going through chance, but so should we in this House have the chance, Parliament right now in the Immigration Bill precisely and the British public at large should know whether because of the need for transparency around deportation. such people are freely entering Britain. Recently, there was an independent inquiry into extradition, The risk in the lack of transparency in this area is again because of the importance of transparency, and that people may start to suspect that the discretionary various changes were made to legislation as a result. If powers are not being exercised properly, robustly or there are good grounds for taking the preventive step of consistently, and that expediency is trumping principle. barring entry, why do we as policy makers, and the That is the fear that is starting to grow up around the British public at large, face a veil of secrecy? issue. I call on the Minister today to answer my specific Added to those domestic considerations, Britain has questions about the individuals in the context of the signed up to a G20 commitment to deny safe haven to Magnitsky case and the Ukrainian case, and to look at corrupt officials. As Global Witness, the international changing the Government’s position on visa bans, and NGO, has argued, how can there be any accountability perhaps go further than the Foreign Affairs Committee for that international pledge without transparency about recommendation. The current position must be dragged the way in which powers at home are exercised? into the 21st century. The names of those excluded from I will have another go with the Minister today. Have this country on policy grounds should be made public, the following people, for whom there is evidence linking in the same way that measures are made public when we them to the Magnitsky case, been subject to a UK visa extradite or deport someone. If we have good reason to ban? In addition, have any of them in practice entered bar someone from entering Britain, we should say so Britain during the past five years? What about Alexander loud and clear, not in some half-hearted whisper lest we Ivanovich Bastrykin, the senior investigator responsible cause offence. The Government should have the courage for the whitewash report about the circumstances of their conviction, and the public should be reassured surrounding Sergei Magnitsky’s death? What about Yuri that torturers, mafia bosses and the henchmen of dictators Yakovlevich Chaika? He was the general prosecutor like Vladimir Putin are not simply waltzing in and out named by Magnitsky as having overall legal responsibility of Britain, despite pious statements of official policy. for the abuses, including torture, that he suffered when he was in detention. Chaika was also responsible for the 4.52 pm subsequent whitewashing of the fraud. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the What about Chaika’s deputy, Victor Yakovlevich Grin, Home Department (Karen Bradley): It continues to be a who ordered the posthumous prosecution of Magnitsky? pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Osborne. I think that I am right in saying that that was the first I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Esher posthumous prosecution in Russian history. What about and Walton (Mr Raab) on securing a debate on this Victor Gennadievich Voronin, who at the time was the subject. I apologise on behalf of the Minister for Security deputy head of Russia’s federal security service and and Immigration, my hon. Friend the Member for Old responsible for authorising the original tax fraud, which Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire), who is currently was the crime that Magnitsky had uncovered? Can the in the main Chamber and therefore unable to be here 299WH Transparency of UK visa bans2 APRIL 2014 Transparency of UK visa bans 300WH

[Karen Bradley] is already in the public domain or there is a legitimate public interest in doing so, but it is certainly not routine for this debate, but I am sure he and my hon. Friend the or regular. Member for Esher and Walton will have many opportunities Having considered carefully the previous Government’s to catch up on this topic. policy of releasing the names of individuals who had As the Home Secretary has previously made clear, been excluded from the UK, we decided that that was where credible evidence exists, the immigration rules the wrong approach. We concluded that that policy allow us to deny entry to those whose presence in this simply invited costly and long-running litigation where country is not considered conducive to the public good. it could have been avoided. It is therefore our firm view The power to deny a person the ability to enter the UK that the current approach is right and that the details of is an important tool that has the potential to support those banned from this country should be made public key Government objectives across a range of matters only when there is a clear public interest in doing so or including national security, terrorism, criminality, war where the individual concerned has put the information crimes and human rights abuses. in the public domain. The Home Secretary may also personally decide to As my hon. Friend will be aware, that is a long-standing exclude an individual who is not a British citizen. Individuals position that successive Governments have adopted. I can be excluded on grounds of national security; on the quite understand that there is a view that disclosing the grounds that their presence in the United Kingdom is details of those who have been banned from this country, not conducive to the public good; or under the unacceptable or refused entry, will reassure both the House and the behaviours or extremism exclusion policy. Exclusion is wider public that steps are being taken to deny the most not targeted against any religious group or proponents undesirable people access to this country. However, for of any individual political position. Individuals excluded the reasons I have just explained, that is not always in have included serious criminals, far-right extremists, the UK’s best interest. homophobic extremists, and Christian, Jewish and Islamic My hon. Friend raised the matter of Sergei Magnitsky. extremists. The circumstances surrounding his death—a human Exclusion powers are taken very seriously and we do rights case—are of utmost concern. It is the most not use them lightly. No decision to exclude is taken high-profile example of the failings of Russia’s judicial lightly or as a method of stopping debate on the issues. and prison systems. The Government recognise that There is close partnership working across Government four years after Mr Magnitsky’s death, there has been a to identify those who should be excluded from the UK lack of meaningful progress towards securing justice. and to prevent them from travelling here. The Secretary The power to prevent a person from entering the UK of State will use those powers when justified, based on on non-conducive grounds is wide-ranging, but it can all the available evidence. In all matters, the Secretary of be and is used in cases where an individual has been State must act reasonably, proportionately and consistently. involved in human rights abuses. Coming to the UK is a Where an individual not already subject to exclusion privilege, not a right. Although we do not routinely seeks entry to the UK either through applying for a visa comment on individual cases, the presumption is that from abroad or on arrival at the UK border, we have the those who have committed human rights abuses will power to refuse those individuals entry on non-conducive normally be refused entry to the UK. However, we grounds. We do not routinely publish the names of cannot simply refuse an individual without objective, individuals who are prevented from entering the UK. reliable, independent evidence of their personal involvement The Home Secretary and her officials use such powers in human rights abuses or other serious crimes. We do to protect national security, to prevent extremists and not prejudge evidence speculatively, but when an application terrorists from coming to the UK, and to disrupt the to come to the UK is made, it is considered on its activities of serious criminals. When those powers are merits, taking into account all circumstances at the exercised, public disclosure of the names of the individuals point of application. It is not a straightforward issue, concerned does not always assist in achieving those and as a Government we must adopt an approach that aims. best supports our objectives while complying with our It is important that we use those powers to achieve legal obligations. As I am sure my hon. Friend will the best results in protecting the UK and the British agree, the overriding consideration must be to use our public. That is most often achieved without the glare of powers lawfully and effectively, and to achieve the best publicity, particularly when we are seeking to cause a results in protecting the UK and the British public. change in behaviour. My hon. Friend the Member for It is right that Ministers consider whether making Esher and Walton will appreciate that once it has been details public can support our aims. That is one of the made public that a person has been banned from or tools that can be used to increase the effectiveness of refused entry to the UK—and so their reputation has the ban, but it can be done only on a case by case basis, been affected—they have less to gain by moderating taking into account the individual circumstances. It their behaviour. would of course reflect the impact on the individual Furthermore, the Home Office has a duty of concerned and the wider policy aim, as well as the confidentiality, and the details of individual immigration impact on wider Government objectives. cases will not routinely be made public. Where it is considered that there is a strong public interest in doing Mr Raab: The Minister is setting out the Government’s so, which clearly outweighs our duty to individuals, and position with a degree of clarity that I have not previously there is sufficient information to confirm individual heard. She talks about the considerations when the identity, the Home Office will disclose names. In exceptional Government decide whether to make public the name circumstances, we occasionally confirm that an individual of someone who has been banned, including whether has been denied entry to the UK when the information doing so might deter or correct that behaviour. If we are 301WH Transparency of UK visa bans2 APRIL 2014 Transparency of UK visa bans 302WH dealing with people who are complicit in torture and The Home Secretary has the power specifically to there is enough evidence to substantiate and justify a prevent individuals from entering the UK so that the visa ban, what possible countervailing reason can there Government can protect the UK’s interests and security be, whether it is to change their behaviour or otherwise, without disrupting travel more widely. Sanctions are for not making their name public? Would not making internationally agreed where there is a collective decision their name public deter others? to take action against certain individuals. By their nature, therefore, sanctions must be shared across a range of authorities and organisations. The UK has a duty of Karen Bradley: My hon. Friend, as always, makes a confidentiality, which means that we do not routinely coherent argument. The point, however, is that a decision disclose information about the immigration status of to make someone’s name public will depend on individual individuals. Additionally, we believe our objectives are circumstances. A blanket approach would be wrong, often best delivered by working with others away from because decisions will depend on each case’s individual the glare of publicity. circumstances and evidence. We must consider such The promotion and protection of human rights continues decisions on a case by case basis, rather than having an to be a key priority in our foreign policy. Human rights overriding one-size-fits-all approach to all cases involving, form a key element of the Government’s engagement for example, torture. That leads me to his specific with our international partners. Denying entry to the points. He is, as always, persistent and tenacious in his UK and, where appropriate, preventing travel to the arguments, but I am sure he understands that I cannot UK has the potential to influence behaviour. We will comment on the individual cases that he listed. continue to use immigration powers to achieve that end. The UK fully implements a range of travel bans In conclusion, the Government make no apology for agreed by both the United Nations and the European refusing access to the UK if we believe someone’s Union. The bans target certain individuals, such as presence is not conducive to the public good. Coming those associated with the Syrian regime, the situation in here is a privilege that we refuse to extend to those who Ukraine or terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda and the seek to subvert our shared values. Taliban. We consider the bans to be an effective tool Question put and agreed to. both to disrupt the activities of certain individuals and to send a clear signal that the international community 5.2 pm does not accept those activities. Sitting adjourned.

81WS Written Statements2 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 82WS

Resident satisfaction with council services has improved Written Statements or been maintained since 2010 and these reforms will ensure that local authorities can continue to deliver the Wednesday 2 April 2014 quality local services people deserve, while making the sensible savings we need to make as part of this Government’s long-term economic plan to secure our COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT future.

Improving Public Services DEFENCE The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Eric Pickles): Too often people get Afghanistan (Roulement) passed around different public services rather than having their problems solved first time. This can be incredibly frustrating, wasting time and energy trying to track The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond): down the right people or repeating their story because The next roulement of UK armed forces in Afghanistan services do not share information. is due to take place in June 2014. As HQ Task Force Councils account for a quarter of public spending Helmand will have integrated into Regional Command and must play their part in finding sensible savings to (South West) on 1 April 2014, around half of the units help tackle the budget deficit inherited from the last deploying will come under Command of a UK one star Administration. within the United States Marine Corps Commanded This Government know that joined-up services can Headquarters. The remainder will deploy elsewhere within save taxpayers’ money and that local authorities are Camp Bastion and in Kandahar and Kabul as part of best placed to help improve public services. This has the UK’s overall contribution. The forces deploying 1 been proven by the community budget pilots and the include : ground-breaking and extremely successful troubled families programme. Elements of 20th Armoured Brigade Headquarters Headquarters 102 Logistic Brigade As a result, the troubled families programme will now be accelerated, with up to 40,000 additional families 854 Naval Air Squadron worked with a year earlier than planned. This will get Elements of 845 Naval Air Squadron more children back in school; cut youth crime and 1st The Queen’s Dragoon Guards anti-social behaviour; put more parents on a path back Elements of The Queen’s Royal Hussars (The Queen’s Own and Royal to work; and deal with more problems in the home, Irish) such as domestic violence. Elements of 5th Regiment Royal Artillery 26th Regiment Royal Artillery New figures today showed that over 100,000 families Elements of 39th Regiment Royal Artillery have now been identified as meeting the criteria for the Elements of 47th Regiment Royal Artillery programme, with councils actively working with more than 78,000 of them. Local authorities will be asked to Elements of 33 Engineer Regiment (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) submit expressions of interests to expand their programmes Elements of 35 Engineer Regiment shortly. Elements of 42 Engineer Regiment (Geographical) 64 Works Group Royal Engineers On the back of this, I am announcing today a 1st (United Kingdom) Armoured Division Headquarters and Signal £410 million funding package and my right hon. Friend Regiment the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and I will also Elements of 10th Signal Regiment appoint a panel of experts to advise on how these kinds Elements of 14th Signal Regiment (Electronic Warfare) of local service reforms could be sped up to go further and faster. Elements of 15th Signal Regiment (Information Support) Elements of 30th Signal Regiment The £410 million fund will reward authorities that cut Elements of 1st Battalion The Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment duplication and build services around the needs of local (Queen’s and Royal Hampshires) people. £90 million of that will be distributed immediately 2nd Battalion The Rifles to all councils so they can start investing to save. 5th Battalion The Rifles The remaining £320 million will form a new Elements of 3 Regiment Army Air Corps transformation challenge award to be made available in 1 Logistic Support Regiment The Royal Logistic Corps 2014-15 and 2015-16 to areas with ambitious plans for Elements of 6 Regiment The Royal Logistic Corps improving services. This could be in health services to Elements of 7 Regiment The Royal Logistic Corps support elderly residents at home, rather than in hospital, Elements of 11 Explosive Ordnance Disposal Regiment The Royal getting people back into work or early learning for Logistic Corps pre-school children. A prospectus for local authorities Elements of 13 Air Assault Support Regiment The Royal Logistic has been published today. The service transformation Corps challenge panel will be drawn from independent experts Elements of 29 Regiment The Royal Logistic Corps from across the public, private and voluntary sectors. 1 Medical Regiment Building on the work of the public service transformation 34 Field Hospital network, the panel will advise on what needs to happen 3 Close Support Battalion Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers locally and nationally to take advantage of more Elements of 102 Battalion Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers opportunities to go further and examine how to overcome Elements of 1st Regiment Royal Military Police barriers so that it can happen faster. 83WS Written Statements2 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 84WS

personnel3. The Army will provide the command element Elements of Special Investigation Branch (United Kingdom) Royal Military Police of Headquarters Joint Force Support (Afghanistan); Elements of Close Protection Unit Royal Military Police 102 Logistic Brigade will deploy in this role with the Elements of The Military Provost Staff Corps wider headquarters manned by individual augmentees from all three services. Elements of 1st Military Working Dog Regiment Elements of 1 Military Intelligence Battalion Volunteer and ex-regular members of the reserve Elements of 2 Military Intelligence Battalion forces will continue to deploy to Afghanistan as part of Elements of 4 Military Intelligence Battalion this integrated force package, and we expect to issue Elements of 7th Battalion The Rifles around 250 call-out notices. On completion of their mobilisation procedures, the reservists will undertake a Elements of 150 (Yorkshire) Transport Regiment The Royal Logistic Corps period of training and, where applicable, integration Elements of 159 Supply Regiment The Royal Logistic Corps with their respective receiving units. 2 Operational Support Group The Royal Logistic Corps This will be the final phase of Op Herrick and will Elements of Headquarters Expeditionary Forces Institute and 148 see UK armed forces ending combat operations by (Expeditionary Forces Institute) Squadron The Royal Logistic Corps 31 December 2014. 31 Squadron, Royal Air Force 1 Where the contribution is 10 personnel or more. IX (Bomber) Squadron, Royal Air Force 2 With a number of exceptions, notably Force Protection Force Number 7 Royal Air Force Protection Wing Headquarters Elements, the RN and RAF deploy outside of the numbered Number 15 Squadron Royal Air Force Regiment Herrick iterations. For the purposes of this document. Op Herrick Number 34 Squadron Royal Air Force Regiment 20 is assumed to run from 1 June 2014 to 31 December 2014. The listed units and elements thereof will all deploy within the 1 June Number 2 Tactical Police Squadron, Royal Air Force 2014 to 31 December 2014 window. Number 609 Squadron Royal Auxiliary Air Force Regiment 3 Contained within the Royal Air Force Individual augmentee Elements of 47 Squadron, Royal Air Force figures is the Tactical Operations Air Traffic Management Team. Elements of 30 Squadron, Royal Air Force Elements of 5 (Army Cooperation) Squadron, Royal Air Force Elements of 32 (The Royal) Squadron, Royal Air Force Elements of 13 Squadron, Royal Air Force HEALTH Elements of 101 Squadron, Royal Air Force Elements of 39 Squadron, Royal Air Force Elements of 27 Squadron, Royal Air Force Adult Autism Strategy for England Elements of 10 Squadron, Royal Air Force Elements of 18(B) Squadron, Royal Air Force Elements of 51 Squadron, Royal Air Force The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman Elements of 99 Squadron, Royal Air Force Lamb): In line with duties under the Autism Act 2009, Elements of 33 (Engineering) Squadron, Royal Air Force and following the review led by the Department of Elements of 90 Signals Unit, Royal Air Force Health into progress in relation to the 2010 adult autism Elements of 1 Air Mobility Wing, Royal Air Force strategy for England “Fulfilling and rewarding lives”, Elements of 2 Mechanical Transport Squadron, Royal Air Force the Department of Health is today publishing “Think Elements of 93 (Expeditionary Armaments) Squadron, Royal Air Autism”, the follow up to “Fulfilling and rewarding Force lives”, the 2010 adult autism strategy for England on Elements of Tactical Imagery-Intelligence Wing, Royal Air Force world autism day. Elements of Tactical Medical Wing, Royal Air Force The cross-Government adult autism strategy is an Elements of Tactical Supply Wing, Royal Air Force essential step towards realising the Government’s long-term Elements of Air Port of Embarkation Wing, RAF Brize Norton vision for transforming the lives of and outcomes for Elements of Base Support Wing, RAF Brize Norton adults with autism. Elements of Engineering and Logistics Wing, RAF Brize Norton “Think Autism” is an update to the 2010 autism Elements of Forward Engineering Wing, RAF Brize Norton strategy and reaffirms the importance of the five areas Elements of Operations Wing, RAF Brize Norton for action aimed at improving the lives of adults with Elements of Tornado Engineering Flight (TEF), Royal Air Force autism identified in the strategy. Marham Elements of Engineering and Logistics Wing, Royal Air Force Odiham An update is being published for three reasons: Elements of Joint Helicopter Support Squadron, Royal Air Force in line with the Autism Act, we undertook a review of the Odiham autism strategy in 2013-14 and are reflecting what we heard Elements of Ministry of Defence Hospital Unit Northallerton from people with autism, their families and from services in this update; Elements of Ministry of Defence Hospital Unit Frimley Park to reflect progress that has been made since 2010 and Elements of Ministry of Defence Hospital Unit Peterborough commitments that have been delivered; and Elements of Ministry of Defence Hospital Unit Portsmouth to take account of changes in public services and new Elements of Royal Centre for Defence Medicine organisations. During the review of the autism strategy we ran a In addition to the list of formed units, individual comprehensive exercise to listen and learn about how it augmentees from each of the services will continue is working. Nearly 2,000 people took part in focus to deploy as part of this integrated force package. In groups, conferences and events. Over 1,100 people took total we expect around 762 individual augmentees part in an online survey. Local authorities worked with to deploy2. This will be comprised of 67 Royal Navy partners and local people to complete self-assessment personnel, 320 Army personnel and 375 Royal Air Force exercises looking at the progress they are making. 85WS Written Statements2 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 86WS

From this review, 15 priority challenges for action new class of voluntary national insurance contribution— were identified by people with autism, carers, professionals class 3A. We are calling this the state pension top-up and others who work with people with autism. In and it is specifically designed to allow some of today’s particular, “Think Autism” has a new focus on building pensioners and those close to pension age to boost their communities that are more aware of and accessible to retirement incomes. the needs of people with autism, on promoting innovative This change will allow existing pensioners and those local ideas, service or projects that can help people in reaching state pension age before 6 April 2016 the their communities and on how advice and information opportunity to gain additional state pension by paying on services can be joined up better for people. class 3A voluntary national insurance contributions. It “Think Autism” sets out a clear programme of action will provide an opportunity for pensioners to improve we will take across Government to improve the lives of their retirement income by obtaining inflation-proofed people with autism, primarily through supporting local extra additional state pension. This could be particularly authorities, the NHS, other public services and their beneficial to women and other groups such as self-employed local partners with their local implementation work. people who have not done well under additional state We intend to publish new statutory guidance to support pensions and have not previously been able to top these the updated strategy later in 2014, following a public up. Along with the newly announced pensioner bond consultation exercise. that will be available from National Savings and Investments Public Health England has also published fuller results in 2015, it further demonstrates the Government’s and the individual area responses from the second commitment to improving outcomes for those in retirement national autism self-assessment exercise, which reported and providing increased flexibility for people to make on progress by the end of September 2013 across all the most of their savings. 152 local authority areas in England. This information There are two entitlement conditions—contributors is found at: www.ihal.org.uk/projects/autism2013. This must have entitlement to a UK state pension and must is a key means of identifying progress in implementing reach state pension age before 6 April 2016. the strategy as a whole and for demonstrating local The rules on additional state pension will apply to accountability. entitlements resulting from class 3A contributions including “Think Autism: Fulfilling and rewarding lives, the inheritance—a surviving spouse or civil partner will be strategy for adults with autism in England: an update” entitled to at least 50% of the additional state pension. has been placed in the Library. Copies are available to On 20 March 2014, the Department for Work and hon. Members from the Vote Office and to noble Lords Pensions published the results of an online polling from the Printed Paper Office. exercise conducted by Ipsos MORI, which was used to estimate potential take-up of the class 3A voluntary JUSTICE contributions. The online poll was conducted in February 2014 and 2,000 people at or close to state pension age Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority took part. We provided them with indications of the class 3A contribution rates and what this would mean The Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims in terms of additional state pension throughout their (Damian Green): My hon. and learned Friend, the Minister lifetime. We found that one in five (20%) of those polled for Justice, Lord Faulks, has made the following written were either “very” or “fairly interested” in taking up ministerial statement: this offer. The level of interest seems to differ by age I am pleased to announce that, today, the Criminal Injuries group with those under age 70 showing the highest level Compensation Authority will become an Executive agency. of interest. I have placed copies of the report in the The Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority (CICA) was Library of the House and it is available on the gov.uk established in 1994. During 2012-13, a triennial review was carried website. out on CICA. The recommendation of the review was that CICA should become an Executive agency as this would better reflect its These results have been used to make some assumptions current operating model. about take-up rate using a proportion of those who said Today, the framework document which details the governance they were “very interested” and “fairly interested”. The arrangements between the Department and the CICA agency has Office for Budget Responsibility has agreed a conversion been published. In line with the requirements for all Executive rate between levels of interest expressed through the agencies, the framework document sets out the overarching framework polling and possible take up. Using these agreed for the governance and accountability arrangements between the assumptions we estimate that around 265,000 people Department and the agency. may take up this offer. The creation of the CICA as an agency will not lead to any change in the CICA’s core function of paying money to people This new measure is in addition to the existing class 3 who have been physically or mentally injured because they were voluntary national insurance contributions which allow the blameless victim of a violent crime. people to fill gaps in their contributions record for basic I have, today, placed copies of the framework document in the state pension. Libraries of both Houses and on the Department’s website at: I have established the facility for people to register www.justice.gov.uk. their interest so that they can receive updates in advance of the state pension top-up becoming available from WORK AND PENSIONS October 2015. This includes a personal calculator for people to work out the contribution needed to increase State Pension Top-up their pension by a weekly amount. This will be available at www.gov.uk/state-pension-topup or by searching for The Minister of State, Department for Work and “state pension top up”. A dedicated telephone line Pensions (Steve Webb): Following an announcement in facility will also be available: 0845 600 4270 or 0345 600 the Budget, I am today providing further details on a 4270 from mobile lines. 87WS Written Statements2 APRIL 2014 Written Statements 88WS

Primary legislation for this measure has been introduced show the contribution needed for £1 per week of additional in the Pensions Bill 2013. We also intend to bring state pension, according to age. The rates are the same forward secondary legislation covering the prices and for males and females. As an illustration, the contribution features of the state pension top-up. required for an extra £1 pension per week for a person The following features will be defined in regulations, aged 65 is £890. This means that for £4,450, the individual that: could receive an additional £260 per year for life, increased £25 per week should be the maximum amount that contributions in line with prices and inheritable on death in the same can provide; way as existing additional state pension: with a minimum of 50% for the surviving spouse or civil partner. For a class 3A VNICS will be available for 18 months from October 2015; and 70-year-old the rate reduces to £779 and at age 75 the rate is £674. there will be a cooling-off period of 90 elapsed days. The state pension top-up has been set at an actuarially I will place a table in the Library of the House of the fair rate that ensures that both individual contributors rates at which pensioners can make class 3A voluntary and the taxpayer get a fair deal. The rates set out below national insurance contributions. 11P Petitions2 APRIL 2014 Petitions 12P

2,320) and for males this was 13-years-old (50 out of Petition 240). In the same period, the biggest increase in the number of admissions was for 15 to 19-year-olds. Source: Wednesday 2 April 2014 Health and Social Care Information Centre (HSCIC) 30 January 2014 http://www.hscic.gov.uk//pubs/ hesapr130ct13. OBSERVATIONS We are investing £54 million into improving access to mental health treatments for children and young people, through the Children and YoungPeople’s IAPT (Improving HEALTH Access to Psychological Services) programme. CYP Understanding and Funding for People with IAPT provides training in a number of psychological Eating Disorders therapies including Systemic Family Therapy and Interpersonal Psychotherapy. These therapies support The Petition of residents of the UK, families and address some of the major mental health Declares that the Petitioners believe that the latest problems of adolescence including eating disorders. figures show hospital admissions for eating disorders The Department of Health is funding the development have risen by 16% from last year to 2,290; further that of interactive e-learning programmes via an ePortal, more than half of those admitted to hospital were intended for professionals and this will be launched on children or teenagers; and further that eating disorders 25 March. It will extend the skills and knowledge of have the highest mortality rates of any mental illness, at NHS clinicians, staff working in universal settings, such around 20%. as teachers, social workers, and counsellors and supervisors The Petitioners therefore request that the House of working in a range of educational and youth settings. Commons urges the Government to increase understanding This will also explore whether e-therapy options can be and monetary resources available for those with eating delivered to children and young people, such as disorders. computerised Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT). This will include support for children and young people And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Tessa with eating disorders. Munt, Official Report, 27 February 2014; Vol. 576, c. 5P.] The Royal College of Psychiatrists has published a [P001322] factsheet on eating disorders entitled Mental Health and Growing Up. The factsheet discusses the causes of Observations from the Secretary of State for Health: eating disorders and how to recognise them, as well as In the 12 months to October 2013, hospitals dealt giving advice on how to cope with a child who has an with 2,560 eating disorder admissions, 8% more than in eating disorder. Beat, a UK charity for people with the previous 12 months (2,370 admissions). eating disorders and their families, provides helplines In the 12 months to October 2013 for all hospital for adults and young people, online support and a admissions for an eating disorder: the most common UK-wide network of self-help groups to help people age for female admissions was 15-years-old (300 out of beat their eating disorder.

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Mr Robathan: The Government is committed to Written Answers to rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy in favour of the private sector which we and the Executive believe is Questions the best way to ensure a sustainable and prosperous future. Over the last year, private sector jobs in Northern Ireland have increased by 10,490 and public sector jobs Wednesday 2 April 2014 by 1,790. Economic Development

NORTHERN IRELAND 14. Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent discussions she has had IRA Victims: Libyan Government Compensation with the Northern Ireland Executive on economic development in Northern Ireland. [903406] 7. Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what progress has been made on Mrs Villiers: I regularly hold discussions with executive gaining compensation from the Libyan Government Ministers on a range of economic issues. for the victims of terrorist acts perpetrated by the IRA. Last week, I chaired a meeting of the Joint Ministerial [903399] Task Force on Banking and Access to Finance which was established to help Northern Ireland businesses Mr Robathan: As the Prime Minister said during access finance. Prime Ministers Questions on 26 March 2014, the British Government has raised repeatedly with the Libyan 15. Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for Government, at the highest levels, the importance of Northern Ireland what recent discussions she has had them engaging with UK victims seeking redress. This with the Northern Ireland Executive on economic includes those seeking compensation through private development in Northern Ireland. [903407] campaigns, and their legal representatives. Mrs Villiers: I regularly hold discussions with executive On-the-runs: Letters Ministers on a range of economic issues. Last week, I chaired a meeting of the Joint Ministerial 9. Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Task Force on Banking and Access to Finance which Northern Ireland what progress has been made on the was established to help Northern Ireland businesses review of so-called letters of comfort issued to on-the-runs. access finance. [903401] Trade Unions Mrs Villiers: On 11 March 2014 I appointed Lady Justice Hallett to carry out an independent inquiry into Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for the administrative scheme dealing with so-called “on Northern Ireland whether her Department is (a) the runs”. undertaking or (b) plans to undertake a review of the check-off union subscription provision. [194045] The terms of reference require the provision of a full public account of the operation and extent of the Mrs Villiers: My Department’s payroll services are scheme. provided by the Ministry of Justice. We would therefore I will lay a copy of the report before the House as inherit any changes to the contract with the payroll soon as practicable after I receive it. provider made by the MOJ in relation to this issue. My understanding is that currently the MOJ has no plans to Government Spending Allocation amend provisions relating to the check-off union subscription although options for change are being 10. Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for kept under review. Northern Ireland what steps she is taking to increase the amount of Government spending allocated to Northern Ireland. [903402] BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Mr Robathan: The Government continue to provide Competition Commission considered additional support and, as a result of spending decisions announced at Budget, the Executive will receive Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, positive Barnett consequentials of over £21 million. Innovation and Skills how many of the Competition However, the long term answer for the Northern Ireland Commission’s incomplete (a) market investigations, economy is a private sector revival and not increases in (b) merger inquiries, (c) regulatory references and (d) Government spending. undertakings or order reviews will be continued by which new enforcers after 1 April 2014. [194146] Reduction in Public Sector Employment Jenny Willott: All of the Competition Commission’s 13. Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for incomplete work passed to the Competition and Markets Northern Ireland what assessment she has made of the Authority on 1 April 2014. This includes five market effect of reductions in the number of people employed investigations, 10 merger inquiries, one regulatory reference, in the public sector in Northern Ireland. [903405] and no reviews of orders or undertakings. 647W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 648W

Employment Schemes non-governmental organisations to establish the right balance between incentivising private sector investment Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for in Thailand and ensuring that the FTA should not Business, Innovation and Skills what incentives his undermine access to essential medicines. Department provides to companies who pioneer initiatives The UK welcomed the joint declaration by EU Trade designed to tackle unemployment. [194316] Commissioner de Gucht and Indian Trade Minister Sharma in December 2010 that nothing in the EU-India Matthew Hancock: “Small business; GREAT ambition”, FTA would prevent the poorest from accessing life-saving published on 7 December 2013, is our commitment to medicines. We continue to engage with the European making it easier for ambitious small businesses to grow. Commission to ensure that this is the case. One of those commitments is to make it easier for businesses to take on new staff, through reforming of Higher Education: Cheshire employment law and making it simpler and cheaper to employ people. Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for More than 95,000 small businesses have been helped Business, Innovation and Skills how many students with the recruitment process through universal jobmatch, started at Russell Group universities to study STEM a free online service launched in November 2012. And subjects from (a) City of Chester constituency and (b) to help businesses understand what they need to do Cheshire West and Chester council area in (i) 2009 and when taking on new staff, we have created an “Employing (ii) 2013. [194071] staff for the first time tool” on gov.uk. We are cutting the cost of employment through the new £2,000 Mr Willetts: The Higher Education Statistics Agency employment allowance which will help 1.25 million (HESA) collects and publishes data on students at UK employers reduce their national insurance bills. We are Higher Education Institutions (HEIs). The numbers of also abolishing employer national insurance contributions entrants to UK Russell Group universities to study for under 21-year-olds earning less than £813 a week STEM subjects who were domiciled in (a) City of from April 2015. Chester constituency and (b) Cheshire West and Chester To encourage small businesses to take on apprentices, council area prior to their course by level of study has we introduced the Apprenticeship Grant for Employers been provided in the following table for the academic scheme which provides a £1,500 grant per apprentice years 2009/10 to 2012/13. for the first ten 16 to 24 apprentices recruited. Budget Information for the 2013/14 academic year will become 2014 announced further funding of £85 million in both available from the HESA in January 2015. 2014-15 and 2015-16 to extend this scheme which will Entrants1 to the Russell Group universities2 to study STEM subjects3 provide over 100,000 grants to employers. domiciled in City of Chester constituency, and Cheshire West and 4 More widely, our £3.2 billion Regional Growth Fund Chester local authority prior to their course, UK Higher Education Institutions, is a flexible and competitive fund operating across England from 2011 to 2017, creating jobs into the Academic years 2009/10 to 2012/13 mid-2020s. The objectives of the Regional Growth Fund 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 are to create economic growth by levering private sector City of Chester 80 120 150 115 investment and creating additional sustainable private constituency sector employment and in particular, to rebalance the Cheshire West and 405 430 425 400 economy by helping those areas and communities that Chester local are currently dependent on the public sector. To date, authority the Fund has supported 400 awards totalling £2.6 billion 1 Covers all students in their first year of study. 2 Refers to membership of the Russell Group as at 28 March 2014. of RGF and £14.7 billion of private sector investment, This includes 24 universities, further details on which are available at delivering 550,000 jobs. the link: http://www.russellgroup.ac.uk/our-universities EU External Trade: South East Asia 3 STEM subjects are defined as medicine and dentistry, subjects allied to medicine, biological sciences, veterinary science, agriculture and related subjects, physical sciences, mathematical sciences, Simon Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for computer science, engineering and technology. Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking 4 A student’s parliamentary constituency and council area are to ensure that European Commission free trade agreement derived from their home postcode. Constituency boundaries were negotiations with (a) Thailand and (b) India safeguard revised in the 2010 General Election. access to affordable medicines; and if he will make a Note: Figures are rounded to the nearest 5. Counts in the table refer to statement. [193854] Full Person Equivalents; these are derived by splitting student instances between the different subjects that make up their course Michael Fallon: EU Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) aim. If a student is taking combined subjects they are split include a chapter on the protection, enforcement and proportionately between them. promotion of intellectual property (IP) rights. While Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) Student Record the protection of IP is one of a number of factors that determine the cost of medicines, we actively seek to Local Enterprise Partnerships ensure that provisions on IP rights in EU FTAs do not have negative impacts on the ability of the poorest to Jesse Norman: To ask the Secretary of State for access low cost medicines. Business, Innovation and Skills what guidance he has On Thailand, we engage with the Commission and given to local enterprise partnerships about the inclusion stand ready to support a constructive dialogue between of higher education in their strategic economic plans. the EU, the Government of Thailand and interested [193952] 649W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 650W

Michael Fallon: Local leaders and businesses, as Mr Willetts: There are no plans to increase the maximum represented by Local Enterprise Partnerships are best amount that students at alternative providers can borrow placed to decide the economic priorities for their area from the Student Loans Company to £9,000. Alternative and these will be highlighted in their Strategic Economic providers are not subject to the same regulatory conditions Plans. as those providers whose students can access fee loans Higher Education leaders are well represented on of up to £9,000. In particular, the fees that they may LEP boards and this demonstrates the importance of charge students are not subject to a cap, nor are these HE, not only in delivering high level skills, jobs and providers required to put in place an Access Agreement. growth, but also in ensuring that universities can play a key role in influencing the local economy. Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what the timetable is for the Office of Fair Trading proposed selling of the pre-2012 student loan book. [194235] Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many of the Office of Fair Mr Willetts: The Income Contingent Repayment (ICR) Trading’s incomplete (a) market studies, (b) competition book will be disposed of in a number of tranches, and it enforcement cases and (c) consumer enforcement cases is the intention to complete the sale of the first tranche will be continued by which new enforcers after 1 April before the end of the 2015/16 financial year. 2014. [194145] Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Jenny Willott: All of the Office of Fair Trading’s Innovation and Skills what estimate he has made of (OFT) incomplete market studies, competition enforcement the proportion of student loans issued under (a) the cases and consumer enforcement cases, along with related pre-2012 funding system and (b) the new system that projects, will be continued by the Competition and will be fully or partially written off. [194237] Markets Authority from 1 April 2014. This includes one market study, 11 competition enforcement cases, and Mr Willetts: We estimate that around 40% of students two consumer enforcement cases. The figure for consumer supported under the pre-2012 funding system will benefit enforcement cases does not include cases under the from having some or all of their loan written off. Estate Agents Act 1979—the OFT will pass four of We estimate that around 60% of students supported these cases to Powys Trading Standards—or ongoing under the post-2012 funding system will benefit from joint enforcement collaboration with the EU Consumer having some or all of their loan written off. Protection Cooperation network. Information on which bodies will take on all of the responsibilities of the OFT is currently available at: Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will place in the Library an http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/work-and- responsibilities/ updated version of the ready reckoner on student loans and debt repayment reflecting his most recent estimate Science: Higher Education on future earnings, fees and RAB charges. [194238]

Jesse Norman: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Willetts: The ready reckoner was replaced in 2012 Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking by the simplified student loan repayment model, which to encourage alternative providers of higher education was published on the gov.uk website. This Department to offer courses in STEM subjects. [193954] will publish an updated version of the simplified model on the gov.uk website when the BIS accounts are published Mr Willetts: The Government’s reforms to higher in June this year. education are encouraging alternative providers of higher education to enter the sector and so enhancing the Vocational Training choices available to students. All providers of higher education are free to develop and offer courses in response to student demand. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what provision exists Courses such as Science, Technology and Engineering under his Department’s Traineeships Programme for typically have teaching costs that cannot be met by individuals with special needs. [194303] tuition fees alone. The Government provides funding, through the Higher Education Council for England Matthew Hancock: The Department for Business, (HEFCE) to meet the teaching costs of these high cost Innovation and Skills (BIS) and the Department for subjects. Under the Further and Higher Education Act Education have worked closely to ensure that traineeships 1992, HEFCE is able to allocate funding to prescribed are accessible to learners with special needs and that institutions of Higher Education in England. Alternative those learners are supported during their participation providers are not prescribed institutions of higher education on the programme. The Government believes that it is and are not subject to the same regulatory conditions. extremely important that young people and adults with Students: Loans special needs are able to access good quality vocational education and skills training to help in employment, Jesse Norman: To ask the Secretary of State for participate in their community and lead a more independent Business, Innovation and Skills if he will increase the life. maximum amount that students at alternative providers Youngpeople aged 16 to 18 with statements of special can borrow from the Student Loans Company to £9,000. educational needs (SEN), or aged 16 to 25 with Learning [193953] Difficulty Assessments (LDA) or Education, Health 651W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 652W and Care (EHC) plans, can access traineeships and will Pay grade continue to get the co-ordinated support the statement, Percentage LDA or EHC plan provides. 31 March Grade SEO/ BIS provides Learning Support funding to colleges 2014 SCS 6/7 HEO EO AO/AA and providers to help them meet the additional needs of Work from 00 000 learners aged 19 to 24 who do not have a LDA or an home EHC plan and who self-declare a learning difficulty Compressed 00 000 and/or disability so that they can participate fully in hours education and training, including traineeships. Learning Job share 0 0 0 0 0 Support can cover a range of needs including funding Term time 0 0 0 0 0 to pay for specialist equipment and helpers; arranging Part-time 0 5.36 10.71 0 0 note takers; talking to college staff about the particular hours help someone may need in lectures and seminars or Gender discussing any special arrangements for exams. This Percentage funding also helps colleges and providers to meet the 31 March 2014 Male Female additional needs of learners with learning difficulties and/or disabilities and meet the costs of reasonable Work from home 0 0 adjustments as set out in the Equality Act 2010. Compressed hours 0 0 Young people with special needs can also choose to Part-time hours 0 16.07 undertake a supported internship rather than a traineeship. Supported internships are open to young people aged We do not keep central records of employees who 16 to 24 with a statement of SEN, a LDA or an EHC work flexi time. Staff can work flexi time by agreement. plan and who need more help to make the transition Staff at all grades can work from home on an ad-hoc from education into employment. Supported internships basis with agreement from their line Managers. offer a structured study programme, based primarily at an employer, and are tailored to the individual needs of a young person with learning difficulties and/or disabilities ATTORNEY-GENERAL to equip them with the skills they need for the workplace. Both the young person and the employer will receive Fraud support from an expert job coach throughout the supported internship. Emily Thornberry: To ask the Attorney-General against what corporate defendants the Serious Fraud Office has brought enforcement actions in the last 10 years; what WOMEN AND EQUALITIES the outcome of each such action was; what civil recovery was ordered in each successful case; what criminal fines Older Workers were imposed in each successful case; and under what primary legislation each case was brought. [192848] Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Minister for Women and Equalities what progress she has made on appointing a The Solicitor-General: The Serious Fraud Office (SFO) business champion for older workers. [193486] has brought enforcement actions against 11 corporate defendants in the last 10 years, as set out in the following Jenny Willott: The Department for Work and Pensions table. are currently developing a job specification and draft Before 2008, all successful SFO prosecutions were of programme for an older worker’s business champion, individuals. The following table shows the fines and whose role will be to promote the business benefits of civil recovery orders (CROs) in SFO cases involving recruiting and retaining older workers. corporates since then. Working Hours Case Penalty1

Lucy Powell: To ask the Minister for Women and 2008 Balfour Beatty plc £2.25 million CRO Equalities what proportion of employees in the Government 2008 Severn Trent Water Ltd £2 million fine Equalities Office of what (a) Civil Service pay grade 2009 AMEC plc £4.94 million CRO and (b) gender work (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, 2009 Mabey and Johnson Ltd £3.5 million fine (iii) from home, (iv) a compressed working week, (v) job 2010 BAE Systems plc £500,000 fine share, (vi) term-time only and (vii) part-time. [193965] 2010 Innospec Ltd $12.7 million fine 2011 De Puy International Ltd £4.8 million CRO Mrs Grant: The Department has a flexible working 2011 MacMillan Publishers £11.3 million CRO guide and working from home policy which allows Ltd employees to work from home, compressed hours, job 2011 M W Kellogg Ltd £7 million CRO share and during term-time only.Remote working facilities 2012 Mabey Engineering £131,000 CRO are available to all staff, enabling them to work from (Holdings) Ltd home or other locations as if they are in the office. Staff 2012 Oxford Publishing Ltd £1.9 million CRO at all grades can work from home by agreement. 1 Figures are rounded The proportion of employees in the Government The above proceedings marked “CRO”were commenced Equalities Office (a) civil service pay grade and (b) in accordance with Chapter 2 of Part 5 of the Proceeds gender are shown in the tables: of Crime Act 2002. 653W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 654W

Severn Trent Water Ltd pleaded guilty to an offence that the woman has grounds for an abortion according under the Water Industry Act 1991. to the criteria set out in that Act. By signing the form, Mabey and Johnson Ltd pleaded guilty to offences the terminating doctor is confirming that the abortion under the Criminal Law Act 1977, the Prevention of is being carried out in compliance with the Abortion Corruption Act 1906 and United Nations Act 1946. Act. BAE Systems plc pleaded guilty to an offence of failing to maintain adequate accounting records under Robert Flello: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the Companies Act 1985. pursuant to the answer of 6 March 2014, Official Report, column 949W, on abortion, how many Ground E Innospec Ltd pleaded guilty to an offence under the terminations were permitted due to a sex-linked inherited Criminal Law Act 1977. condition in the foetus in each of the last five years for In 2006, the SFO brought charges against five companies which records are available. [194306] in relation to alleged price fixing of pharmaceutical products. The five companies were Kent Pharmaceuticals, Jane Ellison: This information is not available. Norton Healthcare Ltd, Generics (UK) Ltd, Ranbaxy (UK) Ltd, and Goldshield Group plc. In 2008, a judge Antibiotics ordered the acquittal of all five companies. If a company is to be prosecuted, it is usually necessary Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health cases to demonstrate that the controlling minds of a what recent discussions he has had with (a) the British company were knowing participants in the criminality Medical Association and (b) GPs’ representatives about being alleged. This can be difficult to prove, especially over prescription of antibiotics. [193759] in complex cases, and so most SFO prosecutions have been of individuals rather than companies. Other outcomes are also possible. In 2010, BAE Systems plc agreed to Jane Ellison: Ministers have not had a recent meeting make a £29.5 million payment for the benefit of the with the British Medical Association or general practitioner people of Tanzania, following a settlement with the (GP) representatives on the specific issue of the SFO and the US Department of Justice. Last year, inappropriate prescribing of antibiotics. Oxford University Press (owners of Oxford Publishing However, officials in the Department continue to Ltd) unilaterally offered to contribute £2,000,000 to collaborate closely with the Royal College of General not-for-profit organisations for teacher training and Practitioners (RCGP) on improving GP prescribing other educational purposes in sub-Saharan Africa. through TARGET (Treat Antibiotics Responsibly, Guidance and Educational Tool), which is available on Working Hours the RCGP website. This resource has been updated to build the case for action and to provide materials about appropriate use of antibiotics. Engaging with GPs on Lucy Powell: To ask the Attorney-General what the antimicrobial resistance also extends to Public Health proportion of employees in the Law Officers’ Departments England’s co-ordinating group for the implementation of each (a) civil service pay grade and (b) gender work of the UK five-year Antimicrobial Strategy.We understand (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, (iii) from home, (iv) a that this co-ordination group has an active representative compressed working week, (v) job share, (vi) term-time from the RCGP. only and (vii) part-time. [193956] The Department will continue to seek engagement The Solicitor-General: Tables containing the information with all stakeholders on the implementation on the requested where available have been deposited in the Antimicrobial Resistance Strategy and will be publishing Library of the House. an update on these plans in April 2014.

Arthritis: Young People

HEALTH Mrs Riordan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps his Department has taken to raise public Abortion awareness of juvenile idiopathic arthritis among (a) GPs, (b) the general public, (c) school teachers and Mr Brazier: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (d) schoolchildren in England. [193819] (1) what steps his Department plans to take to ensure that sex-selective abortion does not place in the UK; Dr Poulter: The National Institute for Health and [194256] Care Excellence (NICE) provides national guidance (2) if he will bring forward proposals to amend and advice to improve health and social care, which is HAS4 abortion referral forms to include a declaration evidenced-based and aimed at health, public health and on the part of registered medical practitioners that they social care practitioners. Information on juvenile idiopathic are satisfied that the women is not seeking an abortion arthritis, including aimed at the general public, is available on the grounds of foetal sex. [194257] on the NICE website. Additionally the NHS Choices website contains information aimed at the general public Jane Ellison: There are no plans to record the gender on the condition. of the foetus on HSA4 forms. Abortion on the grounds The Department for Education is not aware of any of gender alone is illegal. The 1967 Abortion Act states steps that have been taken to raise the awareness of that two practitioners have to be: juvenile idiopathic arthritis among school teachers or “of the opinion, formed in good faith” children in England. 655W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 656W

Mrs Riordan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health It is the responsibility of local clinical commissioning what assessment he has made of the quality and groups to decide how best to use the NICE breast geographical provision of health services provided to cancer quality standard. patients with juvenile idiopathic arthritis in England. NICE quality standards are a concise set of statements [193820] designed to drive and measure priority quality improvements within a particular area of care. They are Dr Poulter: NHS England has advised that the Paediatric derived from the best available evidence and set out the Medicine Clinical Reference Group is currently developing markers of high-quality; cost-effective care. a paediatric rheumatology quality dashboard which While providers and commissioners must have regard they anticipate will go live during 2014, this focuses on to the NICE quality standards in planning and delivering outcomes for children with juvenile idiopathic arthritis. services, the quality standards do not provide a The geographical coverage of rheumatology services comprehensive service specification and are not mandatory. for children was part of the service specification compliance However NHS England continues to champion their undertaken between NHS England and providers of use with providers and commissioners. the service during 2013-14. It is anticipated that the results of this will be soon be available. The following table gives the latest available data on Buildings the number of finished admission episodes for children aged 0-17 years with a primary diagnosis of juvenile Mr Jamie Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for idiopathic arthritis in England, by Strategic Health Health what refurbishments have been carried out by Authority (SHA) of treatment for 2010-11 to 2012-13. his Department since May 2010; what the cost of such Activity in English national health service hospitals and English NHS refurbishment was by category of expenditure; what commissioned activity in the independent sector refurbishments are planned; and what the estimated SHA Organisation cost is of such future refurbishments. [193985] code description 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 Dr Poulter [holding answer 31 March 2014]: The Q30 North East Strategic 461 629 637 Health Authority Department has updated its buildings to accommodate Q31 North West Strategic 2,404 2,535 2,532 existing and new organisations. As a result, we have Health Authority been able to reduce our number of property holdings by Q32 Yorkshire and the 548 905 1,011 nine, which has resulted in savings of £5.5 million per Humber Strategic annum, and delivered a number of improvements to Health Authority our lighting, heating and cooling systems which will Q33 East Midlands 264 274 261 make our buildings more energy efficient and help Strategic Health towards delivering our Greener Government targets. Authority Expenditure on office refurbishment undertaken by Q34 West Midlands 456 548 627 Strategic Health the Department since May 2010 is as follows. Refurbishment Authority costs relate to the general fit out, improvement and Q35 East of England 467 445 273 provision of furniture and equipment and excludes Strategic Health building repair and maintenance. It is not possible to Authority provide a more detailed breakdown of this expenditure Q36 London Strategic 1,571 1,933 2,089 by category of refurbishment without incurring Health Authority disproportionate cost. Q37 South east Coast 101 91 86 Strategic Health Refurbishment Costs (£) Authority Q38 South Central 207 231 363 2010-11 2,307,347 Strategic Health 2011-12 4,927,470 Authority 2012-13 12,607,048 Q39 South West Strategic 769 779 687 Health Authority 2013-14 20,226,451 England 7,248 8,370 8,566 Planned refurbishment with estimated costs for 2014-15, Source: where known, are as follows: Hospital Episode Statistics, Health and Social Care Information Centre Activity Estimated Costs (£ million)

Update of Floor 2 in Skipton 1 Breast Cancer House Refurbishment of Richmond 1.5 Sarah Champion: To ask the Secretary of State for House ’A’ Block Health what guidance his Department offers to clinical commissioning groups on how they should best use the NICE breast cancer quality standard. [193853] Cystic Fibrosis

Jane Ellison: The Department has not issued any Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health guidance to clinical commissioning groups on how to what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the use the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence current arrangements for donor lung allocation for (NICE) breast cancer quality standard. people with cystic fibrosis. [193764] 657W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 658W

Jane Ellison: The current lung allocation system, when that review will report; and what the terms of including those to cystic fibrosis patients, is monitored reference of that review are. [193889] closely to ensure there is equity for patients across the United Kingdom. The most recent analysis showed no Jane Ellison: NHS England has advised that the work statistically significant differences in allocation across to which the question refers is entitled ‘Intensive Planning the UK lung transplant centres. NHS Blood and Transplant Support to Challenged Local Health Economies’. (NHSBT) continue to consider practical steps within Staffordshire has been identified as one of 11 challenged the current allocation system which could improve patient local health economies. outcomes. This is being jointly commissioned by NHS England, Lung allocation policy is developed by the Cardiothoracic the NHS Trust Development Authority and Monitor, Organs Advisory Group. It is presently reviewing the and will provide commissioners and providers in the current approach focusing on equity and better outcomes 11 areas with intensive support for the development of for patients. Any recommendations to change allocation fully aligned five-year strategic plans. Support will include policy will be considered by NHSBT, who will check to a diagnosis of supply and demand, analysis of possible ensure that they meet the aims of the allocation system options, and development of an implementation plan. and that they have the support of transplant stakeholders Supplier bids have been submitted to Monitor, which before making any changes. is leading the procurement process, and are now being considered. It is expected that contracts will commence Health Education in April 2014 and end in June 2014.

Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health NHS: Drugs what consideration he has given to holding surgeries and awareness events on men’s health at sports clubs and public houses. [193761] Kevin Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what his Department’s policy is on the use of unlicensed Jane Ellison: In April 2013 we transferred responsibility medicines in the NHS where licensed medicines exist. for improving public health to local authorities, giving [194015] them the flexibility to innovate and tailor services to meet local individual and population needs. Norman Lamb: Unlicensed medicines can be prescribed to meet the specific clinical needs of an individual Men and women aged 40 to 74 who have not been patient. Such decisions need to be made in discussion diagnosed with an existing vascular disease, or are with the patient concerned, taking into account the being treated for certain risk factors, should be offered a General Medical Council’s prescribing guidance on free NHS Health Check every five years. Local authorities unlicensed medicines. are looking at innovative ways of delivering the programme including targeting harder to reach groups, including Kevin Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health men, and the Department is aware that events have been what the timescales are for delivering the commitment held in sports clubs. in the 2014 Pharmaceutical Price Regulation Scheme Health Professions: Regulation for his Department to work with industry and the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence to support further consideration of issues and potential Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for resolutions around the use of unlicensed comparators. Health with reference to the answer of 4 March 2011, [194016] Official Report, column 663W, on health professionals, if he will publish the robust evidence-based cost-benefit Norman Lamb: Departmental officials are working risk analysis of the regulation of unregulated health with industry and the National Institute for Health and care professionals. [193771] Care Excellence (NICE) to deliver the commitment in the 2014 Pharmaceutical Price Regulation Scheme relating Dr Poulter: The answer of 4 March 2011 related to to the use of unlicensed comparators in NICE technology the regulation of the health care science work force and appraisal guidance. There is no set time scale for delivery not unregulated health care professionals more generally. of this commitment as yet. Modernising Scientific Careers has put in place standardised and accredited education and training Kevin Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for programmes for the health care science work force that Health on how many occasions his Department has enables formalised regulation whether voluntary or requested the National Institute for Health and Care statutory. Excellence to perform a technology appraisal on an For those health care scientists not regulated by unlicensed medicine; and on what basis such a request statute the Academy for Healthcare Science holds a was made in each case. [194017] voluntary register and will be seeking accreditation from the Professional Standards Authority for Health Norman Lamb: We have not referred any unlicensed and Social Care. drugs to the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) technology appraisal programme. Health Services: Staffordshire However, we have asked NICE to produce guidance on the ’off-label’ use of immunosuppressants for renal Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health transplantation in adults and children (TA85 and TA99) what progress has been made on the Distressed Economy and on Velcade (bortezomib) and thalidomide for multiple Strategic Review in the NHS in North Staffordshire; myeloma (TA228). 659W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 660W

Kevin Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the way services are delivered and keeping people well (1) on how many occasions the National Institute for and independent for longer, not in altering the fundamental Health and Care Excellence has not recommended a principles that underpin the NHS. licensed treatment where an unlicensed comparator was used in the relevant health technology appraisal; Organs: Donors [194018] (2) what assessment his Department has made of the Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for effect of the use by the National Institute for Health Health what proportion of people in (a) Redcar and and Care Excellence of unlicensed comparators in Cleveland, (b) Middlesbrough, (c) the North East and technology appraisals on the regulatory incentives for (d) England are registered organ donors. [194023] the development of licensed (a) paediatric medicines and (b) medicines for rare diseases. [194020] Jane Ellison: The information requested is in the following table: Norman Lamb: Since 2007, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) has not issued any Percentage of the population currently on the NHS Organ Donor Register (ODR) in Redcar and Cleveland, Middlesbrough, the North technology appraisal guidance which did not recommend East and England, as at 26 March 2014 a drug or treatment on the basis of a comparison with Area Percentage an unlicensed medicinal product. To include information relating to the period prior to 2007 would incur Redcar and Cleveland 29.3 disproportionate cost. Middlesbrough 27.7 The Department has made no assessment of the North East 30.2 effect of NICE’s use of unlicensed comparators in England 30.8 technology appraisals on the development of medicines Source: for children and for rare diseases. There are a number of NHS Blood and Transplant. incentives at European Union level to encourage the development and authorisation of paediatric medicines Respite Care and orphan medicines for rare diseases. Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Kevin Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health for Health what steps he is taking to improve respite what criteria are used by the National Institute for care provision in (a) Peterborough and (b) England; Health and Care Excellence to determine whether an and if he will make a statement. [193860] unlicensed medicine is in established use within the NHS. [194019] Norman Lamb: A range of respite support is currently available in Peterborough including home based respite, Norman Lamb: The National Institute for Health day services, a Shared Lives scheme, residential respite and Care Excellence (NICE) follows a rigorous process and emergency respite. Over 2013-14 the Council spent for determining the appropriateness of comparator £1.16 million on commissioned respite services amounting technologies in its technology appraisals. to 1,294 weeks of respite over the year. In addition, the This includes consideration of evidence from clinical Council and the local Clinical Commissioning Group experts and manufacturers on comparator technologies (CCG) are working together to improve respite provision that may not have a marketing authorisation but which through joined up commissioning and multi-disciplinary are in established use within the national health service. approaches to assessment and case management. Peterborough City Council and Peterborough CCG NICE’S ‘Guide to the Methods of Technology will be using Better Care Fund opportunities to further Appraisal’, is available on its website at: develop carer support to meet the anticipated changes www.nice.org.uk/media/D45/1E/ in the Care Bill. GuideToMethodsTechnologyAppraisal2013.pdf We have provided £400 million to the national health NHS: Finance service over four years from 2011 for carers to have breaks from their caring responsibilities. From 2013, the allocation of resources to CCGs, including appropriate Sarah Champion: To ask the Secretary of State for investment for carers’ support and breaks, has been a Health what assessment he has made of the statement matter for NHS England. In the 2013 spending review, in the NHS Confederation’s 2015 Challenge, that it is we announced the £3.8.billion Better Care Fund, which very possible that the current basis of the NHS, free for includes £130 million funding for carers’ breaks for all at the point of need, will become unsustainable in 2015-16. the future; and if he will make a statement. [193982] The provisions in the Care Bill will help to ensure Dr Poulter: The principles underpinning the national that local authorities, through a carer’s assessment, health service, enshrined in the NHS Constitution, include meet a carer’s eligible needs for support, including that it provides a comprehensive service available to all providing respite care. based on clinical need and that NHS services are free of charge except in limited circumstances sanctioned by Self-harm: Young People Parliament. Rising demands and continued fiscal constraint means Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for that the NHS faces challenges in ensuring that it remains Health what steps his Department is taking to prevent financially sustainable in the future. The Government incidents of self-harm in the under 18-years-old age believes that the answer to these challenges lies in changing group. [193752] 661W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 662W

Norman Lamb: The Children and Adolescent Mental A ’provider spell’ is essentially a hospital stay, namely Health Service (CAMHS) is there to support children the period between admission to hospital and the discharge of school age who are found to be self-harming. from hospital of a patient. Spotting the signs of mental health problems early in Such provider spells comprise of one or more ’finished children and young people is essential to prevent problems consultant episodes’ (FCEs), each of which is the interval from escalating and continuing into adulthood. That is of care under one consultant. Patients with sepsis may why on 25 March 2014 I launched an interactive e-learning be transferred between consultants and so finished programme via an ePortal. This is an educational and consultant episodes may double count the incidence of advice programme to improve mental health outcomes sepsis, as one incident of sepsis could be treated by for children. Funded by the Department of Health, it more than one consultant. For completeness however, will extend the skills and knowledge of NHS clinicians, both sets of data are presented as follows. staff working in other settings, such as teachers, social workers, and counsellors and supervisors working in a The total count of provider spells with a mention of range of educational and youth organisations. This will sepsis1 in any episode in the last five years is set out in also explore whether e-therapy options can be delivered the following table: to children and young people, such as computerised cognitive behavioural therapy. 1 Admissions with a diagnostic mention of the following: A39.2 (Acute meningococcaemia), A39.3 (Chronic meningococcaemia), Children’s mental health is a priority for this A39.4 (Meningococcaemia, unspecified), A40 (Streptococcal sepsis), Government. That is why we are investing £54 million A41 (Other sepsis). The codes for sepsis in the table are those that over the four year period 2011 to 2015 in the Children ONS uses for the counting of deaths from sepsis. and Young People’s Improving Access to Psychological Therapies programme to drive service transformation Total count in CAMHS—giving children and young people improved access to the best mental health care by embedding 2008-09 69,731 evidence based practice and making sure whole services 2009-10 71,662 use session by session outcome monitoring. 2010-11 79,792 Emergency departments should aim to refer all those 2010-12 87,257 who present with self-harm for a psychosocial assessment, 2012-13 98,775 as set out in National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines. We expect general practitioners Source: to refer people who disclose self-harm to psychological DH analysis of Hospital Episode Statistics (HES). therapies as appropriate. In the revised Public Health Outcomes Framework, we have therefore introduced a The following data are the numbers of FCEs. new indicator that is specifically about self-harm. Under Count of FCEs1 with a primary or secondary diagnosis2 of sepsis3, this indication we will measure: attendances at emergency 2008-09 to 2012-134. Activity in English NHS Hospitals and English departments for self-harm per 100,000 population and NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector percentage of attendances at emergency departments Count of FCEs for self-harm that received a psychosocial assessment. 2008-09 120,933 The Department, with key partners, is currently looking 2009-10 127,915 at the options available for taking forward a new survey 2010-11 143,452 of children and young people to look at the prevalence 2011-12 161,461 of mental health conditions including self-harm. We 2012-13 182,759 are seeking advice on the options for the survey, and 1 Finished Consultant Episode (FCE)-a finished consultant episode what such a survey would be able to tell us. (FCE) is a continuous period of admitted patient care under one consultant within one healthcare provider. FCEs are counted against Self harm has a strong association with subsequent the year in which they end. Figures do not represent the number of suicide. At least half of all people who die by suicide different patients, as a person may have more than one episode of care have a history of self-harm so it should always be taken within the same stay in hospital or in different stays in the same year. seriously, as evidence of underlying distress or mental 2 The number of episodes where this diagnosis was recorded in any of illness. This is why the Government’s suicide prevention the 20 (14 from 2002-03 to 2006-07 and 7 prior to 2002-03) primary strategy highlights people with a history of self-harm as and secondary diagnosis fields in a Hospital Episode Statistics (HES) record. Each episode is only counted once, even if the diagnosis is a high risk group. We strongly support working closely recorded in more than one diagnosis field of the record. with families and made this clear in the “Information 3 ICD 10 Codes for sepsis-A02.1 Salmonella sepsis; A22.7 Anthrax sharing and suicide prevention: Consensus statement”, sepsis; A26.7 Erysipelothrix sepsis; A32.7 Listerial sepsis; A40.- published alongside the first annual report on the suicide Streptococcal sepsis; A41.-Other sepsis; A42.7 Actinomycotic sepsis; prevention strategy. B37.7 Candidal sepsis; O85.X Puerperal sepsis; and P36.-Bacterial sepsis of newborn. 4 HES figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. Changes to the Sepsis figures over time need to be interpreted in the context of improvements in data quality and coverage (particularly in earlier years), improvements in coverage of independent sector activity (particularly from 2006-07) Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for and changes in NHS practice. For example, changes in activity may be Health how many people were diagnosed with sepsis in due to changes in the provision of care. Note: [193760] each of the last five years. FCEs are likely to higher because more than one consultant may be involved in the care of one patient. Dr Poulter: Relevant information requested is provided Source: in the following tables. It is provided two different Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), Health and Social Care Information measures-‘provider spells’and ‘finished consultant episodes’. Centre. 663W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 664W

Skin Cancer Area 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Pauline Latham: To ask the Secretary of State for England, Wales 279 267 302 281 270 Health what representations he intends to make to the and NI National Institute for Health and Care Excellence on The early onset GBS bacteraemia data are published the use of ipilimumab as a first line treatment for as part of the Health Protection Report series, the most advanced melanoma. [193885] recent streptococcal infection report was published in November 2013. Norman Lamb: We have no immediate plans to make any representations to the National Institute for Health Tobacco: Packaging and Care Excellence regarding its technology appraisal of ipilimumab (Yervoy) for previously untreated Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Health unresectable stage III or IV malignant melanoma. what account he has taken of the decision by the However, as a stakeholder in this appraisal, the Belgian Government not to pursue a policy of standard Department will consider making representations as packaging of tobacco. [193769] part of the appraisal process. Jane Ellison: We are aware of the efforts of other Social Services countries to focus on reducing the harms associated with tobacco. It is for the Belgian Government to decide how it proceeds with tobacco control measures Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health based on their national circumstances. what meetings officials in his Department have had with officials from the Department for Business, Innovation Trade Unions and Skills on the implications of the Consumer Rights (a) (b) Bill for users of personal care budgets and Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for providers of personal care budgets; and what the civil Health whether his Department is (a) undertaking or service grades of officials present were. [193791] (b) plans to undertake a review of the check-off union subscription provision. [194041] Norman Lamb: There has been regular informal contact between the Department for Business, Innovation and Dr Poulter: In accordance with the request from the Skills (BIS) and Department of Health policy officials Minister for the Cabinet Office, the Department of regarding the impact of the Consumer Rights Bill, as is Health and its Executive agencies (Medicines and usual for the development of primary legislation. This Healthcare products Regulatory Agency and Public includes contact with policy officials within the adult Health England) have undertaken a review of the provision social care directorate in the Department of Health of the check-off facility. covering issues including personal budgets and the adult social care market. Working Hours In addition, BIS consulted widely on consumer law reform in 2008 and 2012, and published a draft Bill for Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pre-legislative scrutiny in 2013. BIS has also completed what proportion of employees in his Department of full impact assessments for the provisions in the Bill. what (a) Civil Service pay grade and (b) gender work (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, (iii) from home, (iv) a Streptococcus compressed working week, (v) job share, (vi) term-time only and (vii) part-time. [193966] Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many babies were born with Group B Dr Poulter: Decisions on flexible working patterns streptococcus in each of the last five years. [193775] are taken locally by line managers. This means that information about flexi-time, home working, compressed Dr Poulter: Public Health England (PHE) does not hours and job-share arrangements would incur have data on the number of babies born each year with disproportionate costs to establish. group B streptococcus (GBS) colonisation. However, information about part-time (which includes PHE does have surveillance data collected from routine reduced-hours and term-time working) and full-time laboratory reporting outlining the numbers of babies working patterns by grade and gender and related topics are available publicly in the Government’s ″Workforce less than seven days old diagnosed with GBS bacteraemia ″ (“early onset disease”). Equality information 2014 report, Annex A, tables 2 and 29. This can be accessed at: Data supplied in the following table are the annual www.gov.uk/government/publications/workforce-equality- counts of GBS bacteraemia in babies with early onset information-2014 disease in England, Wales and Northern Ireland; 2008 to 2012 The two tables relevant to this question are reproduced as follows: Area 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Table 2: Gender by Working Pattern Percentage England 262 246 271 260 251 Female Male Grand Total Northern 11 11 17 6 11 Ireland (NI) Full 52 48 100 Wales 6 10 14 15 8 Time 665W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 666W

Table 2: Gender by Working Pattern Mr Duncan: Information on the proportion of employees Percentage who work flexibly in DFID by pay grade is as follows: Female Male Grand Total Percentage Part 83 17 100 CS Time grade Part-time/reduced hours Compressed week Grand 56 44 100 Total C2/AA 0.00 0.00 Table 29: Work pattern breakdown by grade C1/AO 11.76 2.35 Percentage B2/EO 11.96 4.35 Grade B1/HEO 7.65 10.40 Group Full-time Part-time Grand Total A2L/ 6.88 7.41 SEO AO 81 19 100 G7 8.68 15.35 EO 87 13 100 G6 7.84 15.20 HEO 88 12 100 SCS 3.49 9.30 SEO 85 15 . 100 Grand 8.34 11.76 FAST 95 5 100 total ST GRADE 86 14 100 Information by gender is outlined as follows: 7 GRADE 80 20 100 Percentage 6 Gender Part-time/reduced hours Compressed week SCS 89 11 100 Female 13.83 11.96 Grand 86 14 100 total Male 2.29 11.53 Grand 8.34 11.76 total DFID managers agree any flexible working and home INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT working arrangements in line with our policies. Information is not centrally recorded. Ethiopia Fewer than five people work have formal contracted job-share arrangements or work term time. Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will itemise all sectoral budget support given to the Ethiopian Government in TREASURY the last two years. [194298] Annuities Lynne Featherstone: DFID has provided the following sector budget support to the Ethiopian Government Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the over the financial years 2012-13 and 2013-14: Exchequer (1) what assessment he has made of the effect of the planned changes to pensions on average £ million returns from annuities; [193947] Health 190.1 (2) what plans the Government has to ensure that a Water 10.7 range of good value financial options are available for Education 138.3 those approaching retirement; [193934] (3) what estimate he has made of the effect of the planned changes to pensions on (a) prices and (b) Trade Unions availability of annuities; [194273] (4) what estimate he has made of the effect of the Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for planned changes to pensions on the price of an annuity International Development whether her Department is for those with pension pots worth (a) £10,000, (b) (a) undertaking or (b) plans to undertake a review of £20,000, (c) £30,000, (d) £40,000, (e) £50,000 and (f) the check-off union subscription provision. [194043] £100,000; [194274] Mr Duncan: The Department is undertaking a review (5) what assessment he has made of the effect of the of the provision of check-off. planned changes to pensions on the availability of an annuity for those with pension pots worth (a) £10,000, (b) £20,000, (c) £30,000, (d) £40,000, (e) £50,000 and Working Hours (f) £100,000. [194275]

Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gauke: At Budget, the Government announced International Development what proportion of employees significant reforms to the pensions market, giving people in her Department of what (a) civil service pay grade greater choice about how to access their defined contribution and (b) gender work (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, pension savings. The Government expects the change to (iii) from home, (iv) a compressed working week, (v) job the pensions market to stimulate innovation and new share, (vi) term-time only and (vii) part-time. [193968] competition in the retirement income market. This new 667W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 668W flexibility will help consumers choosing to buy an annuity Fixed Interest Securities: Pensioners to get a better deal in a much more competitive market place. Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer The shape of the market will be driven by the choices whether pensioners resident in the UK who are not consumers make, placing power back into the hands of British citizens will be eligible to subscribe to his proposed savers. As retirement changes, many people may opt to fixed-rate savings bonds for pensioners. [192867] buy an annuity later in life, allowing them to benefit from higher annuity rates or at a time that better suits Sajid Javid: The fixed-rate savings bonds announced their individual circumstances. at Budget 2014 will be open to pensioners resident in the UK ages 65 and over with a UK bank account in Bank Services their name, subject to the terms and conditions of the products which will be decided in advance of launch. Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) when the Financial Conduct Authority will publish the results of its review into the effectiveness of the Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing Current Account Switching Service; [193796] (2) when he expects the Financial Conduct Authority Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to publish the results of its study of the costs and whether his Department has reached an agreement with benefits of account number portability; [193875] the Northern Ireland Executive not to impose financial penalties should the under-occupancy penalty fail to be (3) when he expects personal current account customers introduced in Northern Ireland. [184907] to be able to access transactional data on their account in a standardised and downloadable format for use as a comparison tool; [193797] Mr Gauke: The Government has been clear that the delay in implementing welfare reforms is having a negative (4) when the Prudential Regulation Authority and impact on the Exchequer and that the UK Government the Financial Conduct Authority will publish a review will, under the principles set out in the Statement of of their work on removing barriers to entry and Funding Policy, seek to recover costs incurred from expansion in retail banking. [193798] January 2014 onwards, including in relation to the removal of the spare room subsidy. Sajid Javid: Budget 2014 detailed the latest steps in the Government’s programme of reforms to improve competition in banking. Money Advice Service This included confirmation that the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) will commence a study of the costs Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the and benefits of account number portability alongside Exchequer how many people received face-to-face guidance its planned review in September into the effectiveness of from the Money Advice Service in each of the last five the Current Account Switching Service; that the largest years. [193943] personal current account providers will give their customers access transactional level data on their personal current Sajid Javid: The Consumer Financial Education Body, accounts in a standardised and downloadable format, called the Money Advice Service (MAS) from April which can be used in comparison tools, by the end of 2011, came into existence in April 2010. Figures for 2014; and that the FCA and Prudential Regulation face-to-face money advice sessions over this period are Authority (PRA) will publish a review of their work on as follows: removing barriers to entry and expansion in retail banking later this year. Face-to-face sessions1

Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2013-142375,000 when the Payment Systems Regulator will launch its 2012-132 100,000 market study into the ownership of payment systems by 2011-122 74,000 the largest banks. [193799] 2010-114 41,000 1 ’Figures are rounded to the nearest 1,000. Sajid Javid: The Budget announced that the Market 2 UK wide. Investigation Reference powers of the Payment Systems 3 April to December 2013. 4 Only available in north-east, north-west, London, plus limited Regulator (PSR) would be commenced on 1 April 2014. coverage in NI, Wales and Scotland. Any decision regarding whether or when to use these powers will be for the PSR to take, once it is established. National Savings Bonds: Pensioners Business: Government Assistance Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Tom Greatrex: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Exchequer what estimate he has made of the costs to what funds were disbursed through the Enterprise the public purse of the introduction of the pensioner Investment Scheme to film projects in each month since bond in each of the next 20 financial years. [193912] June 2010. [194281] Sajid Javid: Our central assumption of the annual Mr Gauke: The information help on HMRC’s systems costs of the NS&I fixed-rate savings bond for people does not distinguish what funds have been raised through aged 65 or over has been certified by the Office of the Enterprise Investment Scheme (EIS) in film projects Budget Responsibility. Details are set out in the Budget and could be obtained only at a disproportionate cost. policy costings document. 669W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 670W

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ Mr Gauke: The OTS was set up by the Chancellor in attachment_data/file/295067/ July 2010 as an independent office to advise on tax PU1638_policy_costings_bud_2014_with_correction_slip.pdf simplification. It has completed reviews into tax reliefs, small business tax, pensioner taxation, and share schemes. Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the It is about to publish reports on employee benefits and Exchequer what rate of return will be offered through expenses, and the taxation of partnerships. the new pensioner bond. [193913] Details of the OTS team are available on the OTS website: Sajid Javid: The interest rates offered on the National https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-tax- Savings and Investments (NS&I) fixed-rate bonds for simplification people aged 65 or over announced at Budget 2014 will be finalised at autumn statement, to take account of Pensions prevailing market conditions at that time. However for the purposes of costing the measure, the Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer central assumption made is that NS&I will launch a one what assessment he has made of the impact of the year bond paying 2.8% gross/annual equivalent rate pension proposals on social care for the elderly. [R] (AER) and a three year bond paying 4.0% gross/AER, [193903] with an investment limit of £10,000 per bond. Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect Exchequer by what criteria people will be eligible for of the planned changes to pensions on the costs of social care in old age. [193927] the new pensioner bond. [193914] Mr Gauke: This measure fundamentally changes the Sajid Javid: National Savings and Investments (NS&I) way that people can access their retirement savings, and products are open to investors with a UK bank account so depending on the decisions they make, people may in their name, who can satisfy the products’ terms and increase or decrease their chances of being eligible for conditions. The fixed-rate savings bonds announced at means tested services at some point in their retirement. Budget 2014 will be open to investors aged 65 and over, with precise terms and conditions of the products to be Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the confirmed before launch. Exchequer (1) what estimate he has made of the change in the number of people who will rely wholly on the Occupational Pensions single tier state pension as a result of the planned changes to pensions from April 2015; [193921] (2) what estimate he has made of the impact of the Mr Weir: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he planned changes to pensions on the number of people will make an assessment of the effect of extending the relying on (a) housing benefit, (b) pensioner credit rights to exercise choice in the future investment of the and (c) other means-tested pensioner support. [193937] proceeds of defined contribution pensions to all pension holders who have bought an annuity since 6 Mr Gauke: The impact will depend on how people April 2013. [194191] choose to use their pension savings, which is difficult to predict. Depending on the choices they make, people Mr Gauke: Unwinding annuities bought since 6 April may be either more or less likely to become eligible for 2013 would involve interfering with contracts already means tested benefits at some point in their retirement, concluded. It would undermine legal certainty and the compared with the current system. However we are rule of law if annuity providers were no longer able to talking about people who have saved for their future rely on contracts which they had entered into in good and therefore we would expect the numbers choosing to faith, under the law as it then stood. rely solely on welfare benefits to be small. The introduction An annuity carries a substitute cancellation right of the single tier pension also means that fewer people which acts as a 30 day cooling off period. In reaction to would be eligible for pension credit even if they chose to the recent announcements, many providers have extended rely on the state. this period to enable consumers to make more informed The increased freedom and flexibility announced at decisions. The Government is working with industry to the Budget will not change the size of the pension that ensure that those people who have purchased an annuity people have, but will give them more options regarding and are still within their cooling off period can take how to use it. For that reason, we do not anticipate that advantage of increased flexibility next year, and are not it will change the number of people who rely wholly on disadvantaged if they wish to do so. the state pension to support them in retirement.

Office of Tax Simplification Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect of the planned changes to pensions from April 2015 on Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Chancellor of the the availability of long-term investment funds for Exchequer how many (a) civil servants and (b) infrastructure projects. [193922] part-time private sector secondees have worked or are expected to work at the Office of Tax Simplification Mr Gauke: The Government welcomes the increased during (i) 2010-11, (ii) 2011-12, (iii) 2012-13 and (iv) appetite among insurers for investments in infrastructure. 2013-14. [181128] Insurers want to invest in infrastructure because the 671W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 672W regular cash flow profile and potential long duration of The Government also recognises that people may these investments is attractive for backing long-term need financial guidance later in retirement as their liabilities. circumstances change. The Government is seeking views The Government believes infrastructure assets will as part of the consultation on what more can be done to remain an attractive investment for the purpose of ensure that guidance is available at key decision points providing a regular source of income in retirement. during retirement. The Government recognises the important role private sector defined benefit schemes play in funding long-term Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the investment in the UK economy. The Government is Exchequer (1) who will provide face-to-face financial consulting on whether to permit transfers from defined guidance introduced as a result of the planned changes benefits schemes under the new freedoms. to pensions; [193924] (2) what estimate he has made of the costs of Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the providing free financial guidance to people at the point Exchequer (1) what provision he has made for financial of retirement; [193930] guidance for individuals on the planned changes to pensions; [193923] (3) what assessment he has made of the capacity of (2) whether the guidance which the Government is the financial services sector to provide face-to-face proposing for those who access their pension savings at guidance to 500,000 people a year; [193946] age 55 will be available at the point at which they (a) (4) if he will publish the analysis underlying the withdraw from their pensions savings or (b) enter full decision to allocate £20 million to the provision of retirement; [193931] consumer advice for pensions; [194249] (3) what steps he is taking to ensure that the (5) if he will publish the analysis underlying the guidance that people receive as they approach the point feasibility of delivering face-to-face financial guidance of drawing down their pension will be both sufficient to an additional 500,000 people from April 2015. and independent; [193932] [194250] (4) what discussions he has had with the Financial Conduct Authority about changes in regulation of the Mr Gauke: The Government announced at Budget a financial services market to protect people accessing new guarantee that everyone with defined contribution their pension savings at the age of 55; [193936] pension savings will be offered free and impartial face- (5) whether the guidance given to those approaching to-face guidance at the point of retirement on their retirement will be a specific recommendation of a financial choices. product to secure the best income in retirement. The guidance guarantee builds on the Association of [194272] British Insurers’ (ABI) commitment that pension providers Mr Gauke: At Budget, the Government announced will provide, at the point of retirement: significant reforms to the pensions market, giving people “a conversation for customers with their pension provider or an greater choice about how they access their defined impartial advice or guidance service about their retirement options.” contribution savings. Alongside this, the Government However the Government wants to go further by ensuring announced a new guarantee that everyone with a defined that all consumers reaching retirement receive good contribution pension will be offered free and impartial quality guidance that meets their needs and stimulates face to face guidance on their financial choices in retirement active and informed choices. when they retire. The Government will introduce a new The Government is specifically consulting, as part of duty on pension providers and trust-based schemes to its consultation, ’Flexibility and Choice in Pensions’, on deliver this ’guidance guarantee’ and this will take effect whether pension providers should be allowed to deliver by April 2015. The Government is consulting on how this guidance themselves (in accordance with strict best to deliver this guidance as part of its consultation, standards) or whether it must always be delivered by ’Flexibility and Choice in Pensions’. independent third parties. The guidance will ensure that consumers are empowered and equipped to make the most of their pension savings, The Government has been clear that a duty will be and to make decisions that best suit their personal placed on pension providers to offer and fund this circumstances and risk appetite for the duration of their guidance guarantee. The Government’s aim is that the retirement. guidance guarantee meets consumers’ needs and works in their interests, and is delivered efficiently and in a The Government has asked the Financial Conduct way which avoids unnecessary compliance cost. Authority (FCA), working closely with the Pensions Regulator and the Department for Work and Pensions, The Government is making available a development to coordinate the development of robust standards for fund of up to £20 million to get this initiative up and this guidance and a framework for monitoring compliance. running; it could be used, for example, to develop tools In developing these standards the FCA will work in and materials, training or capacity building. Further partnership with consumer groups, the Pensions Advisory details on how the development fund could be spent Service, and the Money Advice Service. and disbursed will be published in the summer as part The Government intends that this guidance will be a of the Government’s response. critical step for consumers at the point of retirement, where they will be able to talk through available options Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the and explore those which could best suit their personal Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect circumstances. It will be impartial and will not recommend of the planned changes to pensions on (a) low, (b) specific products or providers. middle and (c) higher income earners. [193925] 673W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 674W

Mr Gauke: The proposed changes will enable individuals Mr Gauke: At Budget 2014, the Government announced to access their defined contribution pension savings as changes which give greater flexibility to many individuals they wish at the point of retirement, subject to their with private pension savings. marginal rate of income tax (rather than the current It is estimated that these changes will promote greater 55% charge for full withdrawal): Under the previous saving into pension schemes as described in the ’Budget system, only individuals with less than £18,000 of total 2014: Policy Costings’ document (p.12), as certified by pension savings, and those with a guaranteed annual the Office for Budget Responsibility. This is available income in retirement of over £20,000 (the equivalent of here: a pension pot of around £310,000 at today’s annuity https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ rates) were allowed full flexibility. The changes the attachment_data/file/295067/ Government proposes will entitle everyone to full flexibility PU1638_policy_costings_bud_2014_with_correction_slip.pdf regardless of their total defined contribution pension savings. Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what assessment he has made of the effect Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the of the planned changes to pensions on the average cost Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect of independent financial advice; [193941] of the planned changes to pensions on opportunities (2) what assessment he has made of the effect of the for tax evasion by higher rate tax payers. [193928] planned changes to pensions on the average cost of face-to-face financial guidance. [193942] Mr Gauke: The Treasury is consulting on how best to deliver the Government’s aims for pension flexibility. Mr Gauke: The Government is currently consulting This will ensure that the legislation is robust and does on how best to deliver the ’at retirement guidance not open opportunities for evasion. guarantee’ announced at Budget through its consultation ’Freedom and Choice in Pensions’. Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect The Government has made available a development of the planned changes to pensions on the housing fund of up to £20 million to get the guidance initiative market. [193929] up and running. Ongoing delivery costs of this guidance to consumers will be met by providers. Mr Gauke: The Government published a consultation, The Government intends that this guidance will be a ″Freedom of Choice in Pensions″ alongside Budget critical step for consumers at the point of retirement, 2014, where it is considering how the planned changes where they will be able to talk through available options could potentially impact on investment in the wider and explore those which could best suit their personal economy. circumstances. This guidance is not designed to replace the services of professional financial advice, and many Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the consumers will want to seek further assistance or advice Exchequer what provisions will be in place to ensure following their guidance session, in particular to help people retain assets to support them in very old age. them purchase a product. The Government is working [193933] with the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) to explore the extent to which regulated advice can be made more Mr Gauke: The proposed changes will ensure that affordable through more cost effective delivery, such as individuals benefit from having additional flexibility through the development of online delivery channels. and choice over how they access their pension savings. The Government recognises that people will need the Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the right support and guidance to make decisions that best Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect suit their evolving personal circumstances. The Government of the planned changes to pensions for low and middle will therefore introduce a new ’guidance guarantee’ to pensioner income. [193949] ensure that everyone approaching retirement receives free and impartial face-to-face guidance on their available Mr Gauke: The proposed changes will enable individuals choices. to access their defined contribution pension savings as they wish at the point of retirement, subject to their Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the marginal rate of income tax (rather than the current Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect 55% charge for full withdrawal). Under the previous of the planned changes to pensions on the need to system, only individuals with less than £18,000 of total reform pensions tax relief. [193938] pension savings, and those with a guaranteed annual income in retirement of over £20,000 (the equivalent of Mr Gauke: The planned changes do not affect pensions a pension pot of around £310,000 at today’s annuity tax relief during the accumulation phase. This Government rates) were allowed full flexibility. The changes the has already taken action to restrict the generosity of Government proposes will entitle everyone to full flexibility pensions tax relief to make it affordable by legislating to regardless of their total defined contribution pension restrict the annual and lifetime allowances. savings.

Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect Exchequer (1) if he will publish the analysis underlying of allowing people to withdraw pension savings at the the costings of the policy of reducing the withdrawal age of 55 at a marginal rate of tax on the level of such tax rate for income from pensions from 55 per cent to savings. [193940] the marginal rate of income tax; [194247] 675W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 676W

(2) what assumption he has made about the number (2) what estimate he has made of the effect of the of (a) basic, (b) higher and (c) additional rate tax changes on the overall level of tax paid by an individual payers who will cease to purchase an annuity as a result in each income decile. [194252] of the changes announced in Budget 2014; [194253] (3) what estimate he has made of the effect on Mr Gauke: An estimate of any potential change in revenue of the planned changes to the pensions system the distribution of pensions tax relief by income decile in each year from 2016 to 2025; [194254] as a result of the greater flexibility afforded to pensioners (4) what assumptions he has made about the number at Budget 2014 is not available. of people who will continue to take out an annuity; An estimate of the overall levels of tax paid by [194255] income decile as a result of the greater flexibility afforded (5) what estimate has been made of the total amount to pensioners at Budget 2014 is not available. of pensions savings which will be withdrawn from pension schemes in each of the 15 financial years from Public Expenditure: Scotland April 2015. [193935] Mr Gordon Brown: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr Gauke: At Budget 2014, the Government announced Exchequer with reference to the publication by the changes which give greater flexibility to many individuals Office for National Statistics entitled Scotland-Household with private pension savings. Taxes and Benefits: update, if he will publish the data (i) The methodology behind this costing—which was certified contained in that document on non-cash benefits from by the Office for Budget Responsibility—can be seen in the public spending, cash benefits and taxes paid by decile ’Budget 2014: Policy Costings’ document (p.11), available here: groups as it relates to Scotland. [193841] https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/295067/ Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the PU1638_policy_costings_bud_2014_with_correction_slip.pdf Cabinet Office. (ii) Estimates of the number of individuals paying different marginal rates who will cease to purchase an annuity are not The information requested falls within the responsibility available. of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority (iii) The expected impact over the forecast period of the to reply. changes can be found in Table 2.1 (p.56) of the Red Book here: Letter from Glen Watson, dated April 2014: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I attachment_data/file/293759/ have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question 37630_Budget_2014_Web_Accessible.pdf asking the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with reference to the The estimated long run income tax impact may be publication by the Office for National Statistics entitled ″Scotland- ″ found in Chart 1.11 also published in the Red Book Household Taxes and Benefits: update , if he will publish the data contained in that document on non-cash benefits from (p.45). public spending, cash benefits and taxes paid by decile groups as (iv) As can be seen in the ’Budget 2014: Policy Costings’ it relates to Scotland (193841). document, the Government estimates that around 30% of people The table shows the average income and state benefits received in defined contribution schemes will decide to drawdown their and taxes paid by Scottish households in each income decile. pension at a faster rate than via an annuity. These estimates are produced from the UK’s Effects of Taxes (v) An estimate of the total amount of pension savings withdrawn and Benefits on Household Income data series, which is based on from .pension schemes in each of the 15 financial years from Living Costs and Food Survey, an annual survey of approximately April 2015 is not available. 5,500 households. The Effects of Taxes and Benefits on Household It is estimated that these changes will promote greater Income annual publication only includes analysis of taxes paid saving into pension schemes as described in the ’Budget and state benefits received by different income deciles for the UK 2014: Policy Costings’ document (p.12), as certified by as a whole, and ONS does not regularly publish household the Office for Budget Responsibility. This is available income analysis by decile group for individual nations or regions here: of the UK. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ These estimates, as with any involving sample surveys, are attachment_data/file/295067/ subject to a margin of uncertainty. Restricting the survey data to PU1638_policy_costings_bud_2014_with_correction_slip.pdf only Scottish households is likely to result in a relatively higher degree of uncertainty around these estimates compared with those published in the Effects of Taxes and Benefits on Household Gregg McClymont: To ask the Chancellor of the Income. In order to increase the sample number of households Exchequer (1) what estimate he has made of the effect available for this analysis, and so reduce the uncertainty of the of the changes on the distribution of pensions tax relief estimates, three financial years of survey data from Scotland have by income decile; [194251] been combined.

Table 1: Income and state benefits received and taxes paid by households in Scotland by income decile, 2009/10 to 2011/12 £ per year Decile 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Average

Pre-tax 3,085 4,844 7,911 12,751 19,138 23,093 33,840 44,176 57,463 99,058 30,625 income Direct taxes 801 1,044 1,429 2,379 3,897 4,880 7,188 10,433 13,930 24,358 7,056 Indirect taxes 2,915 2,982 3,150 3,591 4,290 4,809 6,226 6,306 6,802 8,314 4,943 Total taxes 3,716 4,026 4,580 5,970 8,187 9,688 13,414 16,739 20,732 32,671 11,999 Cash benefits 5,546 8,572 8,596 8,159 7,096 6,599 4,383 3,359 2,216 1,565 5,607 677W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 678W

Table 1: Income and state benefits received and taxes paid by households in Scotland by income decile, 2009/10 to 2011/12 £ per year Decile 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Average

In kind 6,401 7,058 6,761 7,090 6,917 5,880 6,327 6,588 5,057 5,004 6,309 benefits Total 11,947 15,629 15,357 15,249 14,013 12,479 10,710 9,947 7,273 6,569 11,916 benefits Taxes- -8,231 -11,603 -10,777 -9,279 -5,826 -2,791 2,704 6,792 13,459 26,102 83 benefits Income after 11,316 16,447 18,689 22,030 24,965 25,884 31,136 37,384 44,004 72,956 30,543 taxes and benefits Notes: 1. Households are sorted into income deciles by ranking them according to their equivalised disposable household income. Disposable income comprises original income (from employment and investment) plus cash benefits received from the state, minus direct taxes. This is equivalised using the modified-OECD scale to enable comparisons between households of different size’s and compositions. Households have been sorted into deciles within years so, for example, the bottom decile will contain the poorest 10% of households from each of 2009/10, 2010/11 and 2011/12. 2. Figures are given in 2009/10 to 2011/12 prices, unadjusted for inflation. 3 Pre-tax income (known in the Effects of Taxes and Benefits publication as ″original income″) is the income households get from market sources-predominantly employment and investments. 4 Direct taxes are Income Tax, Employees’ National Insurance Contributions and Council Tax. 5. Indirect taxes are taxes which are not levied directly on households, but a proportion of taxes are borne by them through higher prices. 6. Cash Benefits include cash payments received from the state, including the state pension. 7. Benefits in Kind include the benefits households get from state expenditure on services for which the benefit to individual households can be measured, which include the NHS, education and transport, housing and school meal subsidies

VAT WALES

Stewart Hosie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Trade Unions what the annual change in the rate of VAT registrations was in each of the previous five years; and what estimate Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for he has made of the effect of such charges on revenue. Wales whether his Department is (a) undertaking or [193863] (b) plans to undertake a review of the check-off union subscription provision. [194049] Mr Gauke: HMRC publishes VAT registration figures in the VAT bulletins at the following link. Stephen Crabb: The Wales Office is not an employer https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/Pages/ in its own right. As the Ministry of Justice is the main TaxAndDutybulletins.aspx employer of staff at the Wales Office, we would follow No estimates have been made on the effect on revenue. any changes implemented by the MOJ. VAT: Individual Savings Accounts Working Hours Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will ensure that HM Revenue and Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Customs refunds unnecessary payments of VAT on what proportion of employees in his Department of ISAs. [193774] what (a) Civil Service pay grade and (b) gender work (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, (iii) from home, (iv) a Mr Gauke: Any VAT paid to HM Revenue & Customs compressed working week, (v) job share, (vi) term-time (HMRC) that is not properly due will be refunded only and (vii) part-time. [193975] subject to the normal rules. Guidance on how VAT registered businesses can recover overpaid tax can be Stephen Crabb: The proportion of staff in the Wales found on the HMRC website. Office working flexibly is set out in the following table.

Wales Office staff working patterns

(i) Reduced (iii) From (iv) Compressed (v) Job (vi) Term- (vii) Part- hours (ii) Flexitime home working week share time only time

Overall percentage 0% 72% 2% 4% 10% 2% 4%

Percentage broken down by:

Civil Service pay 0% 16%—G6 100%—G6 50%—G6 10% 2100%—AA 50%—AA2 grade 10%—G7 50%—G7 50%—G7 16%—SEO 32%—HEO 10%—EO 8%—AO 8%—AA 679W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 680W

Wales Office staff working patterns (i) Reduced (iii) From (iv) Compressed (v) Job (vi) Term- (vii) Part- hours (ii) Flexitime home working week share time only time

Gender 0 50% F 50% M 100% M 50% F 50% M 10% 100% F 100% F 1 Agreement has been reached to offer a job share arrangement to two females at G7 when they return to work in the new financial year. 2 One administrative assistant works both part-time and term-time only.

TRANSPORT FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Middle East Bus Services: Disability Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports Transport pursuant to the answer of 20 March 2014, he has received of rocket fire by Islamic Jihad into Official Report, column 693W, on bus services: Israel from Gaza. [193874] disability, how many public service vehicles (a) in each region and (b) operated by each operator have been Hugh Robertson: Our posts in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem issued with PSVAR certificates. [193342] reported a major upsurge of rocket fire by Palestinian Islamic Jihad from Gaza into Israel on 12-13 March. Stephen Hammond: I refer the hon. Member to my The Prime Minister condemned this rocket fire during answer of 20 March 2014, Official Report, column his visit to Israel on 13 March. A renewed ceasefire 693W.As indicated there the Department for Transport’s came into effect later that day. annual bus statistics (published in September 2013) Trade Unions show that 78% of buses in England have been issued with PSVAR certificates, while 92% of buses are low floor. Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether his The following table provides a breakdown of PSVAR Department is (a) undertaking or (b) plans to undertake certificates for each region: a review of the check-off union subscription provision. [194040] Buses with Percentage buses Region certificates having certificates Hugh Robertson: The Minister for the Cabinet Office East Midlands 1,400 72 asked Departments to undertake a review of their ‘check- East of England 1,970 67 off’ trade union subscription provision. The FCO recently London 8,880 97 reviewed its arrangements in this regard and is currently North East 1,370 73 considering the findings of that review before taking a North West 3,900 76 decision on future provision. South East 2,690 71 South West 1,950 63 West Midlands 2,730 77 ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE Yorkshire and the 2,800 69 Humber Electoral Register England 27,680 78

The figures in this table are compiled from annual Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South operator returns to the Department for Transport, which West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on are not broken down by region. To compile the regional the Electoral Commission, which local authorities (a) level estimates, each operator has been assigned to its did and (b) did not complete local data matching after main region of operation. the confirmation dry run with the Department for Work and Pensions’ database and electoral register. The returns are made under the Statistics of Trade [191816] Act 1947, and figures for individual operators are therefore considered as commercially confidential. Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me that this information was provided to the hon. Member in the answer to his question 191356 on 27 March 2014, Railways: South East Official Report, columns 324-26W.

Gordon Henderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South Transport what steps the Government is taking to West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on improve rail infrastructure between Sittingbourne and the Electoral Commission, if he will list the registration London stations. [194174] rates for students in higher education institutions in the UK in ranked order for the most recent period Stephen Hammond: The new Network Rail Control available. [191927] Period includes investment to improve stations on the route between Sittingbourne and London including, in Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me some cases, longer platforms to accommodate longer that it does not hold data on the registration rates of trains. students by higher education institution. 681W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 682W

The Commission has conducted an analysis of the the Electoral Commission, whether the Student Loans results of the dry run of the confirmation process to be Company database has been used for purposes of used during the transition to IER. This indicated that maximising student registration. [192114] students were one of the groups less likely to be matched against the Department for Work and Pensions database. Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me This analysis and all the associated data is available that the Student Loans Company (SLC) database was to EROs across the country. This has allowed them to used during two data matching pilot projects which identify areas, such as those with large student populations, were organised by the Cabinet Office and evaluated by where they may need to target more of their resources the Commission. in order to maintain or improve levels of registration. These pilots aimed to test the usefulness of giving Electoral Registration Officers (EROs) access to information Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South West held on national, public databases in order to improve Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the the accuracy and completeness of their electoral register Electoral Commission, if he will list the local authority by identifying unregistered people. databases used by electoral registration officers in the In their evaluation of both pilots the Commission dry run for individual electoral registration for the 10 concluded that the Student Loans Company data was authorities with the (a) best and (b) worst registration of limited use in identifying unregistered people. rates. [191928] The Commission’s two evaluation reports can be found here: Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me that electoral registration officers (EROs) had their own http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/_data/assets/pdf_file/ 0010/146836/Data-rnatching-pilot-evaluation.pdf discretion to use any local databases to which they had access to support their work on local data matching. http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/_data/assets/pdf_file/ 0003/156189/Data-mining-pilot-evaluation-report.pdf After the dry run was complete the Commission conducted a voluntary survey of EROs on their use of local data Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South following the dry run of confirmation. West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on Not all EROs responded to that survey so it is not the Electoral Commission, if he will list each local possible to provide a full answer regarding all EROs authority database used by electoral registration offices with the best and worst registration rates. However, in the dry run for individual electoral registration amongst the replies received, the following databases (IER) for the 10 local authorities with the (a) best and were most frequently cited: (b) worst registration rates during the IER dry run. Council tax database [192119] Council tax benefits Housing benefits Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me Registrar of births and deaths that this information was provided to the hon. Member in the answer to question 191356. Housing list/Tenancy records Residential homes records Voting Behaviour Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South West Electoral Commission, what discussions the Electoral Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the Commission has had with the Office for National Statistics Electoral Commission, what the differential turnout and other Government Departments on the size of the was between the highest and lowest income group in UK population eligible to vote but not registered (a) each general election for which such data is available. before and (b) after the publication of its report, Great [191926] Britain’s Electoral Registers 2011. [192109] Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me that it does not hold this data. Some information on that its 2011 report on Great Britain’s electoral registers how turnout varies by socio-demographic factors is provided an assessment of the accuracy and completeness available from an analysis of public opinion polls carried of the electoral registers in force in December 2010 and out by Ipsos MORI around general elections. The data April 2011 using a house-to-house survey methodology. for 2010 can be found here: The Commission always intended to also carry out http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/ researcharchive/2613/How-Britain-Voted-in an assessment of the same registers by matching them against census data. It has therefore been having discussions Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South West with the Office for National Statistics (ONS), the National Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the Records of Scotland (NRS) and the Northern Ireland Electoral Commission, what assessment the Electoral Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) since 2010. Commission has made of the future propensity to vote The Commission expects to publish reports on England, of those electors who (a) use and (b) do not use their Wales and Scotland in summer 2014. The timing of the vote in the first general election after reaching the age of work in Northern Ireland is still the subject of discussions 18 years old. [191932] with NISRA. Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South that it has not made its own assessment of this issue, but West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on is aware of the studies that have examined it. 683W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 684W

Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South Assessment using Darwin Plus funding. The purpose of West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on this is to move towards a green economy by strengthening the Electoral Commission, what recent assessment the environmental management and sustainable growth, Electoral Commission has made of reasons for raising awareness of the value of ecosystems to the differential turnout between socio-economic groups. economy and providing evidence-based implementation [191999] of green policies.

Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me Floods that it has not made its own assessment of the reasons for differential turnout between socio-economic groups. Nigel Adams: To ask the Secretary of State for However, the Commission is aware of the fact of differential Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many properties turnout between not only social but demographic and built after January 2009 were flooded in winter 2013-14; other groups and targets its campaigns accordingly. and what guidance his Department issues to home For instance, the Commission ensures that its campaigns owners who are declined insurance by their provider reach young people by advertising on channels used by because of risk of flooding. [R] [193817] that demographic, including Facebook and video-on- demand services, and that its television adverts are Dan Rogerson: We do not collect information on the frequently placed during programmes with a high viewership number of properties built after January 2009 which among young people. were flooded in the winter of 2013-14. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has published Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for South a “Guide to obtaining flood insurance in high risk West Devon, representing the Speaker’s Committee on areas” on the gov.uk website, which sets out steps for the Electoral Commission, how many postal votes households in flood risk areas to access appropriate there were as a proportion of those issued in the top insurance. 100 constituencies in turnout ranked order at the 2010 Horses: Animal Welfare General Election. [192239]

Mr Streeter: The Electoral Commission informs me Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for that a table showing the (a) number of postal votes Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is issued as a proportion of the total electorate and (b) taking to ensure that (a) the welfare of horses is number of postal votes returned as a proportion of the considered a priority in live exports and (b) laws relating number issued, across the 100 constituencies with the to the welfare of horses are being enforced. [194277] highest turnout at the 2010 general election, has been deposited in the Library. George Eustice: The Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency (AHVLA) carries out non- discriminatory, risk-based inspections of animals, means of transport and accompanying documentation, as required ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS by Council Regulation (EC) 1/2005. This Regulation is Environment Protection: British Overseas Territories implemented in England by The Welfare of Animals (Transport) (England) Order 2006 (WATEO). Dr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Local authorities are responsible for enforcement of Food and Rural Affairs what the objectives of the this legislation, in terms of investigating and, where Green economy projects implemented in the Overseas appropriate, taking prosecution action against any Territories are. [193142] transporters alleged to have committed an offence. Members: Correspondence Dan Rogerson: The Overseas Territories are highly dependent on the assets provided by their natural environment—their terrestrial and marine ecosystems—for Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for their economic wellbeing. The long-term management Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when he plans to of these assets is essential for the development of sustainable reply to the letter to him dated 20 February 2014 from (’green’) economies in the territories. the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Ms T Morris. [194175] The objective of the environmental mainstreaming initiative is to assist individual territories to identify George Eustice: The Secretary of State for Environment, the key issues that need to be addressed to ensure the Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the environment is properly taken into account in all aspects Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson), has replied of economic and infrastructure planning. Key issues to the hon. Member’s letter and the response will be include proper provision for waste management and the with him shortly. need to better understand the value of the environment to local economies and communities. Sheep: Theft To date, three environmental mainstreaming projects have been managed by the Joint Nature Conservation Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Committee on behalf of the FCO and DEFRA, in the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what resources Falkland Islands, British Virgin Islands and Anguilla. are being allocated to prevent sheep rustling. [193599] In addition, we have also funded projects in Anguilla through our Darwin Initiative Challenge Fund in 2012 Norman Baker: I have been asked to reply on behalf and they are now developing a National Ecosystem of the Home Department. 685W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 686W

It is for Police and Crime Commissioners to ensure A as follows. The volume of orders imposed and those that forces use those resources to tackle the crimes that that remain outstanding is in Table B matter most to the communities they serve, including Table A sheep rustling where that is a local priority. £ The Government will provide £8.5 billion to the Order balance police in England and Wales in 2014-15, demonstrating remaining to collect our continued commitment to protecting the public excluding interest from crime. In addition, the police receive around a Value of confiscation (as at 30 January quarter of their total funding from the police precept orders imposed 2014) component of council tax. 2010 276,143,735 167,176,784 Working Hours 2011 187,128,205 73,910,472 2012 271,998,720 162,286,156 2013 245,728,131 176,875,895 Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Total 980,998,791 580,249,307 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion of employees in his Department of what (a) civil Table B service pay grade and (b) gender work (i) reduced £ hours, (ii) flexi-time, (iii) from home, (iv) a compressed Volume of working week, (v) job share, (vi) term-time only and orders with an (vii) part-time. [193963] order balance Total volume remaining to of orders to collect collect Dan Rogerson: Information for core DEFRA staff is excluding including as follows: Volume of interest (as at interest (as at confiscation 30 January 30 January Percentage orders imposed 2014) 2014) Compressed Term time 2010 6,214 915 2,289 Grade Gender hours working Part-time 2011 6,286 1,065 2,342 AA Male 0 0 0 2012 6,458 1,386 2,399 Female 0 0 60 2013 6,139 2,500 3,141 AO Male 0 2 2 Total 25,097 5,866 10,171 Female 0 1 14 Confiscation orders are one of the key mechanisms EO Male 1 0 2 available to the Government to deprive criminals of the Female 2 1 18 proceeds of their crimes. The value of the order imposed, HEO Male 1 0 4 which is often very high, is based on the criminal benefit Female 1 0 20 attributed to the crime and may, therefore, exceed the SEO Male 2 0 5 value of realisable assets that are known to the court at Female 4 1 21 the time of imposition. Crucially, an outstanding order Grade 7 Male 2 0 5 stops the criminal benefitting from the proceeds of Female 5 0 28 crime and ensures that, if the assets are discovered in the future, they can be seized. Grade 6 Male 5 0 10 Female 5 0 21 HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) and other enforcement agencies take the issue of recovering SCS Male 2 0 5 criminal assets very seriously and are working to ensure Female 0 0 23 that clamping down on defaulters is a continued priority Notes: nationwide. 1. The term “reduced hours” has been interpreted as meaning part-time working. Although, as the Enforcement Authority, HMCTS 2. Other information requested is not held centrally and could be owns the debt, it is not always the lead enforcement provided only by incurring disproportionate costs. agency. HMCTS tends to lead on the high volume, low value orders. Prosecution agencies, including the CPS and the Serious Fraud Office, lead on enforcement JUSTICE where they have put Restraint Orders on the defendant’s property to protect the asset, or where the professional Confiscation Orders expertise of an Enforcement Receiver will be required to enforce the confiscation order. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice All outstanding amounts are actively pursued using a (1) what value of confiscation orders were (a) issued range of enforcement tools open to us. A confiscation and (b) uncollected in each year since 2010; [185720] order is a life time order and only amounts up to £50 (2) how many confiscation orders (a) were issued can be written off. Default sentences of up to 10 years and (b) went uncollected in (i) 2010, (ii) 2011, (iii) 2012 in prison are activated for non payment. Serving the and (iv) 2013. [186101] default sentence does not cancel the debt and we will continue to pursue the amount owed. Interest is added Mr Vara: The value of confiscation orders imposed to the order balance outstanding at the rate of 8% per and the amounts outstanding for those orders, both annum. The fact that interest accrues at such a high rate with and without interest, as at 30 January 2014, for the and amounts over £50 cannot be written off, contribute calendar years from 2010 onwards, are set out in Table to the increasing level of debt. At the end of December 687W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 688W

2013, the total amount outstanding was £1.47 billion, of fixed penalty notices, with all of the police forces of which £372 million was interest alone. At the end of having transferred to the new platform by June 2013.The December 2013, including interest £24 million is owed continuing improvement the agencies are making combined by defendants who are deceased and a further £86 million with our future plans will ensure that more criminals is owed by defendants who have been deported. Even pay and that taxpayers get better value for money. for those that are deported we still try to actively pursue the defendants assets held abroad, but we rely on the Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice cooperation of overseas enforcement agencies, which is how many outstanding confiscation orders were written often not forthcoming. The agencies responsible for off in each year since 2010. [185721] enforcement are building better relationships with overseas authorities and engage specialist forensic teams to track down hidden assets. Mr Vara: The volume of confiscation orders reduced or written off from 2010 to 2013 is recorded in Table A, The amount defendants repaid from their criminal while the value of amounts reduced or written off is activity across all agencies reached an all time high recorded in Table B. during 2012-13, with a total of £133.1 million recovered. That represented a 7% increase on the £124.1 million Table A: Volume of confiscation orders written off recovered during 2011-12. The total amount recovered Category 2010 2011 2012 2013 Total has increased for the last four consecutive years and DTOA 424212 once again we are on course to have another record Default breaking year this financial year. For the 2013-14 financial Served year, at the end of December 2013, £102.8 million had Inadequacy 202 202 163 185 752 been recovered, which is an increase of 2% on the POCA s24 43 61 42 29 175 £100.5 million that was collected up to December 2012. Discharge Since 2008-09, when £98.8 million was recovered, the POCA s25 124 72 37 42 275 amount collected from criminals has increased by 35%. Discharge HMCTS is seeking a commercial partner to help Reconsideration 401 474 567 521 1,963 of Available increase collections, reduce enforcement costs and Assets importantly, ensure more criminals pay. A new national Grand total 774 811 813 779 3,177 system has been implemented to manage the collection

Table B: Value of confiscation orders written off £ Category 2010 2011 2012 2013 Total

DTOA Default Served 47,101 882,064 1,162,397 22,082 2,113,644 Inadequacy 5,707,742 8,924,637 3,673,845 11,815,275 30,121,499 POCA s24 Discharge 70,030 780,328 335,969 483,443 1,669,770 POCA s25 Discharge 1,479 980 797 1,179 4,435 Reconsideration of Available Assets 8,019,707 21,235,494 16,739,659 20,158,107 66,152,967 Grand total 13,846,059 31,823,503 21,912,667 32,480,086 100,062,315

Following are explanations of the limited ways an Reconsideration of Available Assets outstanding confiscation order can be reduced or written Under POCA legislation the defendant can make an application off. to the Crown court, to apply for a Variation Order to reduce the Drug Trafficking Offences Act 1986 (DTOA) Default order amount where assets have not achieved the value assessed at Served the confiscation hearing. Unlike a pre-POCA COI application, no fee is payable. Serving the default sentence of up to 10 years for non payment of a confiscation order under this pre-Proceeds Of Crime Act Confiscation orders are one of the key mechanisms 2002 (POCA) legislation cancels the amount outstanding in full. available to the Government to deprive criminals of the Inadequacy proceeds of their crimes. The value of the order imposed, which is often very high, is based on the criminal benefit Under pre-POCA legislation the defendant can make an application attributed to the crime and may, therefore, exceed the to the High Court, for a fee of £350, to apply for a Certificate of value of realisable assets that are known to the Court at Inadequacy (COI) to reduce the order amount where assets have not achieved the value assessed at the confiscation hearing. the time of imposition. Crucially, an outstanding order stops the criminal benefitting from the proceeds of POCA s24 Discharge crime and ensures that, if the assets are discovered in The Enforcement Authority can apply to the Crown court to the future, they can be seized. reduce amounts up to £1,000 where they are satisfied the value of the asset has not met the value assessed at the confiscation HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) and hearing. The most likely cause for this is fluctuations in foreign other enforcement agencies take the issue of recovering currency. criminal assets very seriously and are working to ensure that clamping down on defaulters is a continued priority POCA s25 Discharge nationwide. The Enforcement Authority can apply to the Crown court to discharge amounts up to £50, where there is little prospect of Although, as the Enforcement Authority, HMCTS recovering the small amount outstanding or it is no longer cost owns the debt, it is not always the lead enforcement effective to do so. agency. HMCTS tends to lead on the high volume, low 689W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 690W value orders. Prosecution agencies, including the CPS However, as at 31 December 2013, there were 20,634 and the Serious Fraud Office, lead on enforcement outstanding confiscation orders totalling £1,466,924,522 where they have put Restraint Orders on the defendant’s including interest. Excluding interest the figure is property to protect the asset, or where the professional £1,094,584,445. expertise of an Enforcement Receiver will be required to enforce the confiscation order. Volume of orders Value of orders outstanding outstanding (£) All outstanding amounts are actively pursued using a As at 31 Excluding Including Excluding Including range of enforcement tools open to us. A confiscation March: interest interest interest interest order is a life time order and only amounts up to £50 can be written off. Default sentences of up to 10 years 2010 6,359 12,771 711,409,802 870,804,796 in prison are activated for non payment. Serving the 2011 7,488 15,227 1,046,473,308 1,254,278,825 default sentence does not cancel the debt and we will 2012 8,397 17,440 915,151,064 1,195,167,499 continue to pursue the amount owed. Interest is added 2013 9,295 19,727 1,055,230,330 1,406,638,265 to the order balance outstanding at the rate of 8% per annum, The fact that interest accrues at such a high rate During 2011-12, two successful appeals with a combined and amounts over £50 cannot be written off, contribute total of £184.7 million were reduced to a total of £32.3 to the increasing level of debt. At the end of December million. This reduced the outstanding debt by £152.4 2013, the total amount outstanding was £1.47 billion, million. of which £372 million was interest alone. At the end of December 2013, including interest £24 million is owed Confiscation orders are one of the key mechanisms by defendants who are deceased and a further £86 available to the Government to deprive criminals of the million is owed by defendants who have been deported. proceeds of their crimes. The value of the order imposed, Even for those that are deported we still try to actively which is often very high, is based on the criminal benefit pursue the defendants assets held abroad, but we rely attributed to the crime and may, therefore, exceed the on the cooperation of overseas enforcement agencies, value of realisable assets that are known to the Court at which is often not forthcoming. The agencies responsible the time of imposition. Crucially, an outstanding order for enforcement are building better relationships with stops the criminal benefitting from the proceeds of overseas authorities and engage specialist forensic teams crime and ensures that, if the assets are discovered in to track down hidden assets. the future, they can be seized. The amount defendants repaid from their criminal HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) and activity across all agencies reached an all time high other enforcement agencies take the issue of recovering during 2012-13, with a total of £133.1 million recovered. criminal assets very seriously and are working to ensure That represented a 7% increase on the £124.1 million that clamping down on defaulters is a continued priority recovered during 2011-12. The total amount recovered nationwide. has increased for the last four consecutive years and Although, as the Enforcement Authority, HMCTS once again we are on course to have another record owns the debt, it is not always the lead enforcement breaking year this financial year. For the 2013-14 financial agency. HMCTS tends to lead on the high volume, low year, at the end of December 2013, £102.8 million had value orders. Prosecution agencies, including the CPS been recovered, which is an increase of 2% on the and the Serious Fraud Office, lead on enforcement £100.5 million that was collected up to December 2012. where they have put Restraint Orders on the defendant’s Since 2008-09, when £98.8 million was recovered, the property to protect the asset, or where the professional amount collected from criminals has increased by 35%. expertise of an Enforcement Receiver will be required HMCTS is seeking a commercial partner to help to enforce the confiscation order. increase collections, reduce enforcement costs and All outstanding amounts are actively pursued using a importantly, ensure more criminals pay. A new national range of enforcement tools open to us. A confiscation system has been implemented to manage the collection order is a life time order and only amounts up to £50 of fixed penalty notices, with all of the police forces can be written off. Default sentences of up to 10 years having transferred to the new platform by June 2013.The in prison are activated for non payment. Serving the continuing improvement the agencies are making combined default sentence does not cancel the debt and we will with our future plans will ensure that more criminals continue to pursue the amount owed, Interest is added pay and that taxpayers get better value for money. to the order balance outstanding at the rate of 8% per annum. The fact that interest accrues at such a high rate Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice and amounts over £50 cannot be written off, contribute (1) what the value of outstanding confiscation orders to the increasing level of debt. At the end of December was on 31 December (a) 2010, (b) 2011, (c) 2012 and 2013, the total amount outstanding was £1.47 billion, (d) 2013; [185722] of which £372 million was interest alone. At the end of December 2013, including interest £24 million is owed (2) how many outstanding confiscation orders there by defendants who are deceased and a further £86 million were on 31 December (a) 2010, (b) 2011, (c) 2012 and is owed by defendants who have been deported. Even (d) 2013. [185723] for those that are deported we still try to actively pursue the defendants assets held abroad, but we rely on the Mr Vara: Our accounts are based on financial years cooperation of overseas enforcement agencies, which is as opposed to calendar years; therefore the value and often not forthcoming. The Agencies responsible for volume of outstanding confiscation orders as at 31 enforcement are building better relationships with overseas March, from 2010 through to 2013, are set out in the authorities and engage specialist forensic teams to track table. down hidden assets. 691W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 692W

The amount defendants repaid from their criminal Offenders committed for sentence to the Crown court, by offence type, activity across all agencies reached an all time high England and Wales, 2008-12 during 2012-13, with a total of £133.1 million recovered. Offence type 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 That represented a 7% increase on the £124.1 million Theft and handling 3,569 3,457 3,831 4,314 3,743 recovered during 2011-12. The total amount recovered stolen goods has increased for the last four consecutive years and Fraud and forgery 1,242 1,213 1,227 1,201 1,349 once again we are on course to have another record Criminal damage 374 280 259 300 264 breaking year this financial year. For the 2013-14 financial Drug offences 2,802 2,610 3,100 3,768 4,016 year, at the end of December 2013, £102.8 million had Other indictable 2,096 2,616 2,687 2,567 2,393 been recovered, which is an increase of 2% on the offences (excluding £100.5 million that was collected up to December 2012. motoring) Since 2008-09, when £98.8 million was recovered, the Indictable 571 523 540 559 581 amount collected from criminals has increased by 35%. motoring offences HMCTS is seeking a commercial partner to help Summary offences 1,406 1,264 1,494 1,723 1,555 (excluding increase collections, reduce enforcement costs and motoring) importantly, ensure more criminals pay. A new national Summary 509 351 393 360 329 system has been implemented to manage the collection motoring offences of fixed penalty notices, with all of the police forces Notes: having transferred to the new platform by June 2013.The 1. The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons continuing improvement the agencies are making combined for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they with our future plans will ensure that more criminals were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or pay and that taxpayers get better value for money. more offences, the principal offence is the one for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the Crown Courts statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2. Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice data have been extracted from large administrative data systems (1) how many defendants charged with each offence generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable type were sent to the Crown Court for sentence by limitations are taken into account when those data are used. magistrates in each of the last five years; [191271] Source: (2) how many defendants (a) elected jury trial at the Justice Statistics Analytical Services in the Ministry of Justice Crown Court for either way offences where magistrates had accepted jurisdiction and deemed the case to be Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice suitable for summary trial and (b) were sent to the what the average cost was of an either way office case Crown Court for trial by magistrates declining dealt with at the Crown court where (a) a guilty plea jurisdiction over the case in each of the last three years. was entered at the magistrates court and (b) a guilty [191270] plea was entered on the day of trial at the Crown court in the latest period for which figures are available. [191272] Mr Vara: The answers to both questions are contained in the following tables: Mr Vara: There are a number of different ways costs Election/direction of either way offences for completed cases at the of cases can be estimated, depending on how indirect Crown courts, England and Wales, 2010-131,2 costs are apportioned, resulting in a range of cost Number of cases heard at the Crown court estimates for these cases. The latest period for which At the election of the At the direction of the data are available is 2012-13 (up-rated to 2013-14 prices). accused magistrates court (a) The cost of an either way guilty plea entered at 2010 10,022 37,376 the magistrates court is estimated to be between £210 2011 10,225 41,937 and £270 (to the nearest £10). 2012 5,405 38,344 (b) A guilty plea entered on the day of a trial at the 2013 (Q1 to 4,049 34,864 Crown court would result in a cracked trial. The cost of Q33) a cracked trial in the Crown court is estimated to be 1 Includes all criminal cases which have received a verdict and between £1,200 and £2,000 (to the nearest £100). concluded in the specified time period in the Crown court. 2 The table does not include cases where election/direction status is These figures do not include legal aid costs. unknown. Work undertaken to improve the quality of data on Sentencing Council Guidelines to the judiciary encourage election/direction status in the Crown court has seen the proportion of unknown/incomplete cases fall from 21% in 2010 to 3% in 2013. early guilty pleas by setting out a scale of ’credit’ for a 3 Latest published data available to September 2013. guilty plea to be applied that varies from a reduction of Source: one third in any sentence for an early plea, to 10% for a Criminal Court Statistics, Justice Statistics Analytical Services guilty plea entered at the point of trial. Offenders committed for sentence to the Crown court, by offence type, England and Wales, 2008-12 Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Offence type 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Justice what the average cost was of a (a) jury trial at Violence against 3,160 3,416 3,204 3,555 3,615 the Crown Court for (i) either way offences sent by the person magistrates where their sentencing powers were not Sexual offences 316 214 276 282 279 deemed sufficient, (ii) either way offences where the Burglary 3,232 2,923 2,919 3,411 3,364 defendant has chosen to elect jury trial and (iii) Robbery 26 13 7 25 25 indictable only offences and (b) trial in a magistrates’ 693W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 694W court for (i) summary only offences and (ii) either way £ offences in the latest period for which figures are Estimated average costs Lower Higher available. [191282] Committed for trial 5,500 6,400 Mr Vara: The information requested is not currently Sent for trail 9,500 10,500 available in full. An analysis of criminal court costs is based on average timings from Activity Based Costing In the Magistrates court allocations models. Some of the timings in the models are based on a timing survey, conducted in a representative Summary motoring trial 500 600 sample of courts. Undertaking a new survey to support Summary non-motoring trial 1,000 1,300 an analysis of costs in a different way to that currently Either way trial in the magistrates 1,300 1,700 available could be achieved only at disproportionate court Notes: cost. 1. These figures do not include legal aid costs. Some of the information is available. There are a 2. Costs shown to the nearest £100. number of different ways costs of cases can be estimated, depending on how indirect costs are apportioned. Estimates shown are based on 2012-13 costs (up-rated to 2013-14 prices). Fines Costs at the Crown Court are analysed by offence type (criminal damage, burglary, drug offences etc.) Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice rather than by how the offence has come to be heard in (1) what the total amount is of fines issued by the courts the Crown Court. Estimates are based on average trial between 2010 and 2013 which remain uncollected; lengths—individual trials for any given case may be [185483] longer or shorter. The lower and upper trial cost estimates (2) what the total amount is of fines (a) issued by shown are the weighted average of upper and lower the courts and (b) uncollected was in (i) 2010, (ii) 2011, estimates for all either way or indictable offence types. (iii) 2012 and (iv) 2013; [185484] Summary offences in the magistrates court have been (3) what the value was of fines that were (a) issued split into motoring and non-motoring offence types. and (b) uncollected in each of the last four years. [186157] £ Estimated average costs Lower Higher Mr Vara: The value of fines imposed, collected, cancelled In the Crown court (Either way or and outstanding for the periods from April 2011 onwards indictable trial in the Crown court) are set out in the following table:

£ Value of fine collected Value of fines cancelled Value of fines imposed in the same period they in the same period they outstanding at the end of Period Value of fines imposed were imposed were imposed the period

April 2011 to December 2011 170,962,169 54,843,753 12,470,347 103,648,069 January 2012 to December 2012 273,994,704 70,032,092 17,470,412 186,442,200 January 2013 to September 2013 210,561,372 44,541,677 11,548,807 154,470,888 (latest published period)

The values above only refer to fines and not any other HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) takes elements of financial impositions such as prosecutor the issue of financial penalty enforcement very seriously costs, compensation and victim surcharge. Where financial and is working to ensure that clamping down on defaulters impositions are paid by instalments the fine element is is a continued priority nationwide. HMCTS actively the last part to be paid off after compensation, victim pursues all outstanding impositions until certain they surcharge and prosecutor costs. The values cancelled cannot be collected. Collection reached an all time high can relate to legal or administrative cancellations. The at the end of 2012-13 and collection has continued to value outstanding will include amounts remaining on rise in this financial year. At the end of September 2013 accounts that are being paid by instalments or were not total collection (all imposition types excluding confiscation due for payment by the end of the period specified. orders) was higher than the same point in the previous year and the outstanding balance had reduced since the It is not possible to provide data in this format for start of the financial year. On average over the last any period prior to April 2011 as new performance 12 months 69% of accounts have been either closed or management information was introduced at that time. are compliant with payment terms by 12 months after It is not possible to identify how much of the amounts imposition. imposed in 2011 or 2012 remained outstanding by the end of September 2013 (latest published data period) as HMCTS are actively seeking an external provider for data is only available for 18 months after the date the future delivery of compliance and enforcement services. imposed—after that it is not possible to extract the This will bring the necessary investment and innovation amount outstanding for a specific period from the total to significantly improve the collection of criminal financial balance outstanding. penalties and reduce the cost of the service to the taxpayer. 695W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 696W

Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Table 1: Average fine of number of fines issued to defendants how many fines have been (a) issued by courts and (b) proceeded against at magistrates courts and found guilty and sentenced at all courts for offences of installing or using a television receiver collected in 2013-14 to date. [185878] without the appropriate licence1, England and Wales, 2008 to 20122, 3, 4 Outcome 20085 2009 2010 2011 2012

Mr Vara: For the financial year to date, 1 April 2013 Average 154.11 166.68 170.51 169.41 169.29 to 30 September 2013 (latest published data) 614,693 fine (£) financial imposition accounts were opened. Of those 1 An offence under S 363 of the Communications Act 2003. accounts opened in that period, 182,183 accounts were 2 The figures given in the table relate to persons for whom these closed. A further 199,623 accounts were compliant with offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is their payment terms. the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same Financial impositions include fines imposed in the disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most magistrates and Crown courts, costs orders, compensation severe. orders, victim surcharge orders and unpaid fixed penalty 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate notices and penalty notices for disorder which are registered and complete. However, it is important to note that this data has been as fines for enforcement. The numbers of accounts extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the closed is the position as at the end of September 2013 courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are and those accounts outstanding could now have been taken into account when this data is used. closed or collected.. Accounts that are closed are accounts 4 The number of offenders sentenced can differ from those found with a zero balance which could have been by payment guilty as it may be the case that a defendant found guilty in a or administrative or legal cancellation. particular year, and committed for sentence at the Crown court, may be sentenced in the following year. HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) takes 5 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July and the issue of financial penalty enforcement very seriously August 2008. and is working to ensure that clamping down on defaulters Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services-Ministry of Justice. is a continued priority nationwide. HMCTS actively pursues all outstanding impositions until certain they Table 2: Average fine or number of fines issued to defendants cannot be collected. Collection reached an all time high proceeded against at magistrates courts and found guilty and sentenced at the end of 2012-13 and collection has continued to for keeping a motor vehicle on the highway without a current vehicle excise licence1, England and Wales 2008 to 20122, 3, 4 rise in this financial year. At the end of September 2013 5 total collection (all imposition types excluding confiscation Outcome 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 orders) was higher than the same point in the previous Average 157.44 215.25 219.78 219.43 261.16 year and the outstanding balance had reduced since the fine (£) start of the financial year. On average over the last 1 An offence under section 29 (1-3) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration 12 months 69% of accounts have been either closed or Act 1994. are compliant with payment terms by 12 months after 2 The figures given in the table relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. imposition. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is HMCTS are actively seeking an external provider for the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the future delivery of compliance and enforcement services. the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most This will bring the necessary investment and innovation severe. to significantly improve the collection of criminal financial 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate penalties and reduce the cost of the service to the and complete. However, it is important to note that this data has been taxpayer. extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when this data is used. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 4 The number of offenders sentenced can differ from those found what the average fine was for people found guilty of guilty as it may be the case that a defendant found guilty in a non-payment of (a) a television licence, (b) vehicle particular year, and committed for sentence at the Crown court, may excise duty and (c) council tax in each of the last four be sentenced in the following year. 5 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July and years. [194112] August 2008. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services-Ministry of Justice. Mr Vara: The average amount of the number of fines issued to defendants proceeded against in magistrates courts and found guilty and sentenced at all courts for installing or using a television receiver without the Fines: Surcharges appropriate licence, in England and Wales, from 2008 to 2012, can be viewed in Table 1. The average amount of the number of fines issued to Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice defendants proceeded against in magistrates courts and how much in victim surcharge has been imposed by found guilty and sentenced at all courts for keeping a adult courts since October 2012; and how much of that motor vehicle on the highway without a current vehicle figure has been collected to date. [191969] excise licence, in England and Wales, from 2008 to 2012, can be viewed in Table 2 Mr Vara: The amount of victim surcharge imposed Failure to pay council tax is not a criminal offence so and collected from October 2012 to September 2013 cannot be dealt with by a fine. (latest published period) is set out as follows: 697W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 698W

Between 1 October 2012 and 31 December 2013 around £ 30% of judicial reviews which reached the permission Amount collected by end of September stage or oral renewal were found to be totally without Imposition month Amount imposed 2013 merit. The Government is determined to improve the judicial October 2012 1,253,491 826,583 review process. The rationale for the Government’s November 2012 1,460,874 941,311 reforms is set out in ’Judicial review: further proposals December 2012 1,263,756 788,671 for reform—the Government response’: January 2013 1,900,543 1,158,226 https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/judicial- February 2013 1,869,900 1,068,110 review March 2013 2,086,393 1,139,143 April 2013 2,424,548 1,240,960 The Government is determined to improve the judicial May 2013 2,543,344 1,201,270 review process so that it is not open to abuse and arguable cases can proceed quickly to final resolution. June 2013 2,556,998 1,096,358 July 2013 2,982,204 1,096,130 The Government is clear that judicial review is, and August 2013 2,707,508 776,618 will remain, an important means to ensure the actions September 2013 2,626,937 357,217 of Government and other bodies are lawful. Total 25,676,496 11,690,597 Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for The balance of the amount imposed that is remaining Justice with reference to his article published in the at the end of the period will include amounts that are Daily Mail on 6 September 2013, what the evidential being paid by instalments or were not due for payment basis was for his statement that countless left-wing by that time. The closer to the point of imposition the campaigners are using the judicial review system as a greater the proportion will be that remains outstanding promotional tool. [193822] as many offenders will be paying by instalments. HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) takes Mr Vara: The rationale for the Government’s reforms the issue of financial penalty enforcement very seriously is set out in ’Judicial review: further proposals for and is working to ensure that clamping down on defaulters reform—the Government response’: is a continued priority nationwide. HMCTS actively https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/judicial- pursues all outstanding impositions until certain they review cannot be collected. Total collection reached an all time high at the end of 2012-13 and collection has continued The Government is determined to improve the judicial to rise in this financial year. review process so that it is not open to abuse and arguable cases can proceed quickly to final resolution. HMCTS are actively seeking an external provider for the future delivery of compliance and enforcement services. Most of the Government’s reforms to judicial review This will bring the necessary investment and innovation are being taken forward through the Criminal Justice to significantly improve the collection of criminal financial and Courts Bill which will be subject to the full and penalties and reduce the cost of the service to the proper scrutiny of Parliament. taxpayer. Magistrates’ Courts: Greater Manchester Judicial Review

Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice pursuant to the answer of 29 January 2013, Justice how much was levied in fines by each magistrates Official Report, column 772W, on Judicial Review, what court in Greater Manchester in each of the last five further assessment has been made of the reasons for the years; what proportion of such fines were written off by increase in the number of applications for judicial review. each court; and what proportion of such fines were [192142] [193293] collected.

Mr Vara: The use of judicial review more than tripled Mr Vara: It is not possible to identify the amounts between 2000 and 2013, from around 4,300 applications imposed, written off and collected for individual magistrates to around 15,700. The increase has been driven mainly courts as data on fines imposed are recorded by local by immigration and asylum cases but civil judicial reviews accounting divisions. The only way data for individual have increased by around 27% over the same period, courts could be obtained is to carry out a manual search from 1,745 in 2000 to 2,210 in 2013. of all fine accounts. In 2012 only around 1,400 of 7,600 applications The total amounts imposed, written off and collected considered for permission, including at an oral renewal, in the Greater Manchester accounting division are set were granted permission to proceed to a final hearing. out as follows.

£ Total administratively Total imposed cancelled Total legally cancelled Total collected

2008-09 19,635,012 1,902,853 2,805,105 11,673,192 2009-10 19,267,431 1,973,017 3,019,911 11,802,052 699W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 700W

£ Total administratively Total imposed cancelled Total legally cancelled Total collected

2010-11 22,558,446 1,229,895 2,847,562 12,063,589 2011-12 19,125,753 2,216,073 3,933,432 12,265,100 2012-13 21,654,640 2,204,046 4,586,675 12,952,842

The amounts above include all elements of financial Prison Service impositions (excluding confiscation orders): fines, costs, compensation and victim surcharge. The amounts cancelled Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice or collected in a particular year can relate to impositions (1) how much was spent on (a) travel, (b) accommodation from that year or any previous year. and (c) subsistence costs for detached duty cover for Financial penalties are only administratively cancelled staff in the Prison Service in each month since September after all attempts to collect the amount outstanding 2013; [190148] have been made, and in accordance with strict cancellation (2) which prisons have reported staff shortages that criteria. These penalties can be written back on to the required staff to be called in from another prison in system if more information is found—for instance, a each month since September 2013; [190151] new address for the offender. (3) how many staff in the Prison Service have been Legal cancellations can be applied after the case has on detached duty in each month since September 2013. been reconsidered by a judge or magistrate. Typically, [190153] legal cancellations are used where a case has been re-opened and the defendant has been found not guilty, Jeremy Wright: Using centrally held financial records following the presentation of additional information. it is not possible to disaggregate the costs of detached Legal cancellations can be full or partial remittances of duty from other expenses claimed by staff without financial penalties. incurring disproportionate cost. The following table sets out how much of the value In order to increase efficiency of deployment, a nationally imposed in Greater Manchester in the 2011-12 and co-ordinated detached duty scheme has been operating 2012-13 financial years was collected or cancelled by since October 2013. The following list contains details the end of the same financial year which it was imposed. of all establishments that have received officers on These data are only available from April 2011 onwards. detached duty and the table shows the average weekly provision of staff deployed on detached duty each £ month. Cancelled (administrative The deployment of prison officers between prisons Imposed Collected and legal) on detached duty is a regular and normal part of prison resourcing. Deployment outside of the nationally 2011-12 19,125,753 6,036,385 1,832,554 co-ordinated scheme which began in October is not 2012-13 21,654,640 6,537,941 3,111,387 recorded centrally. For this reason, information on the number of establishments and staff using detached The amounts above again include all elements of duty prior to 21 October 2013 is not available. financial impositions. The balance amount imposed that is remaining at the end of the financial year will Prisons receiving staff on detached duty 21 October to include amounts that were being paid by instalments or 31 December 2013 were not due for payment by that time. 21 to 31 October 2013 HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) takes Cookham Wood the issue of financial penalty enforcement very seriously The Mount and is working to ensure that clamping down on defaulters Nottingham is a continued priority nationwide. HMCTS actively pursues all outstanding impositions until certain they Feltham cannot be collected. Total collection reached an all time Isis high at the end of 2012-13 and collection has continued Moorland to rise in this financial year. At the end of September Lindholme 2013 total collection (all imposition types excluding November 2013 confiscation orders) across HMCTS was higher than the same point in the previous year and the outstanding Littlehey balance had reduced since the start of the financial Wayland year. On average over the last 12 months 69% of accounts Norwich have been either closed or are compliant with payment Cookham Wood terms by 12 months after imposition. The Mount HMCTS are actively seeking an external provider for Portland the future delivery of compliance and enforcement services. Bristol This will bring the necessary investment and innovation to significantly improve the collection of criminal financial Guys Marsh penalties and reduce the cost of the service to the Feltham taxpayer. Isis 701W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 702W

Moorland Prison Service: North East Lindholme Earlstoke Mrs Lewell-Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Leyhill Justice which (a) prisons and (b) young offender Pentonville institutions in the North East have had members of staff take detached duty since 2010. [192683] Spring Hill December 2013 Jeremy Wright: A nationally co-ordinated detached Wayland duty scheme has been operating since 21 October 2013. Cookham Wood Staff from the following public sector prisons and young Norwich offender institutions in the north east have been on detached duty between 21 October 2013 and 31 December Elmley 2013: Deerbolt, Durham, Holme House, Kirklevington Bedford Grange, Low Newton and Northumberland. The Mount The deployment of staff between prisons on detached Portland duty is a regular and normal part of prison resourcing. Bristol Deployment outside of the nationally co-ordinated scheme Guys Marsh which began in October is not recorded centrally. For this reason, information on the number of establishments Swaleside and staff using detached duty prior to 21 October 2013 Leyhill is not available. Feltham Moorland Mrs Lewell-Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Lindholme Justice how many staff of each (a) prison and (b) young offender institutions in the North East were Onley made redundant in each year since 2010. [192684] Werrington Littlehey Jeremy Wright: No staff were made redundant in any Pentonville public sector prison or young offender institution in the north east between 2010 and 2013. Aylesbury Leicester Security Rochester Earlstoke Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many breaches of security have been reported at Bullingdon (a) HM Courts Service, (b) the Land Registry, (c) the Glen Parva National Offender Management Service, (d) the National Isle of Wight Archives, (e) the Office of the Public Guardian and (f) the Tribunals Service in each year since May 2010; and Monthly provision of staff resource deployed via detached duty, what procedures each agency follows when a breach of 21 October to 31 December 2013 security involves the disclosure of personal data. Average weekly provision of [192730] officers on detached duty

21 to 31 October 2013 48 Mr Vara: The following table provides the number of November 2013 111 centrally recorded security incidents (breaches of security December 2013 206 resulting in actual or potential harm) that have occurred during each financial year since 1 April 2010.

1 April 2010 to 1 April 2011 to 1 April 2012 to 1 April 2013 to 31 March 2011 31 March 2012 31 March 2013 31 December 2013

HM Courts Service1 2,845 - - - Tribunals Service1 577 - - - HM Courts and Tribunals Service1 - 5,077 3,101 2,421 Office of the Public Guardian 679 446 485 389 The National Archives 3 1 5 0 The National Offender Management 8,287 9,298 10,052 8,492 Service2 1 HM Courts Service and the Tribunals Service merged in April 2011 and became HM Courts and Tribunals Service and therefore these details are not recorded separately. 2 Includes the number of incidents involving physical security in prisons.

Responsibility for HM Land Registry was transferred The figures include a wide range of types of incident, to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills including loss of IT equipment (which would usually be in July 2011 and therefore the Ministry of Justice does password protected or encrypted to protect the information); not hold this information. verbal abuse and threats to court staff, judiciary and members of the public; and a wide variety of incidents in prisons. 703W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 704W

The Department and its agencies apply robust incident Calendar year Total (£) management processes, including a requirement for staff to report breaches resulting in potential harm/loss to 2013 15,537,821.29 assets (information, people, buildings and equipment). When a security incident involving the disclosure of Off contract bookings made by HMCTS are outside personal data is identified prompt action is taken locally of these spend figures. The number of bookings made to limit harm and residual action is then taken to seek off contract has substantially decreased since the start to alleviate further recurrence. of 2012 with those bookings moving onto the Capita TI contract. This move from off contract to Capita TI is Sentencing reflected in the changing year on year contract spend. Spend for 2012 is based on an 11 month period as the Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice contract did not go live until 30 January 2012. Expenditure how many (a) men and (b) women were serving has also increased in the second year of contract due to custodial sentences for non-payment of (i) a television changes made to the contract in May 2013 and an licence, (ii) vehicle excise duty and (iii) council tax on 1 estimated 20% increase on volume. £15 million was saved in year one of the contract. March 2014. [194101] In this instance to provide the requested information Jeremy Wright: The offences of using a TV receiver on total annual spend and spend by language, would without a valid licence and of failure to hold a valid exceed the disproportionate cost threshold of £850.00 vehicle excise duty licence (tax disc) are not punishable or 4½ working days. by imprisonment, so offenders cannot be sentenced to In order to provide the information we would be custody for these offences. Failing to pay council tax is required to obtain a number of large reports from not a criminal offence. Accordingly, there were no men electronic databases. The relevant data must then be or women serving custodial sentences on 1 March 2014 manually extracted and collated. It would also require for non-payment of a TV licence, vehicle excise duty or comparison against additional financial data before council tax. analysis. We estimate that this process for the spend data would take approximately six working days given Translation Services the volume of data involved. Defendants in criminal cases do not contribute towards Mark Hendrick: To ask the Secretary of State for the costs of interpreters that are provided by HMCTS. Justice how much HM Courts and Tribunal Service Charges for HMCTS provided interpreters in civil, family spent on interpreters in 2011, 2012 and 2013; how and tribunal cases are not passed directly to parties, much was spent on interpreting each language in those although the costs may be recovered from court and years; and how much was paid by defendants towards tribunal fees in the jurisdictions where they apply. these costs. [185824]

Mr Vara: The Department does not hold centrally all Unpaid Fines of the information that the hon. Member has requested. Although we cannot provide all the data on spend for Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the periods requested we can provide the annual spend what the total value was of fines remaining uncollected for interpreters sourced through the Capita-TI Contract on 31 December (a) 2010, (b) 2011, (c) 2012 and (d) for Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunal Service as follows: 2013. [186102]

Calendar year Total (£) Mr Vara: The value of fines imposed, collected, cancelled and outstanding for the periods from April 2011 onwards 2012 7,940,128.79 are set as follows.

£ Value of fine collected in Value of fines cancelled Value of fines imposed Value of fines the same period they in the same period they outstanding at the end of Period imposed were imposed were imposed the period

April 2011 to December 2011 170,962,169 54,843,753 12,470,347 103,648,069 January 2012 to December 2012 273,944,704 70,032,092 17,470,412 186,442,200 January 2013 to September 2013 210,561,372 44,541,677 11,548,807 154,470,888 (latest published period)

The values above only refer to fines and not any other accounts that are being paid by instalments or were not elements of financial impositions such as prosecutor due for payment by the end of the period specified. costs, compensation and victim surcharge. Where financial It is not possible to provide data in this format for impositions are paid by instalments the fine element is any period prior to April 2011 as new performance the last part to be paid off after compensation, victim management information was introduced at that time. surcharge and prosecutor costs. The values cancelled It is not possible to identify how much of the amounts can relate to legal or administrative cancellations. The imposed in 2011 or 2012 remained outstanding by the value outstanding will include amounts remaining on end of September 2013 (latest published data period) as 705W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 706W data are only available for 18 months after the date criteria. These penalties can be written back on to the imposed—after that it is not possible to extract the system if more information is found—for instance, a amount outstanding for a specific period from the total new address for the offender. balance outstanding. Legal cancellations can be applied after the case has HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) takes been reconsidered by a judge or magistrate. Typically, the issue of financial penalty enforcement very seriously legal cancellations are used where a case has been and is working to ensure that clamping down on defaulters re-opened and the defendant has been found not guilty, is a continued priority nationwide. HMCTS actively following the presentation of additional information. pursues all outstanding impositions until certain they Legal cancellations can be full or partial remittances of cannot be collected. Collection reached an all time high financial penalties. at the end of 2012-13 and collection has continued to HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) has rise in this financial year. At the end of September 2013 carried out a fundamental review of financial penalty total collection (all imposition types excluding confiscation accounts, actively targeting accounts to achieve compliance orders) was higher than the same point in the previous at the earliest point, as well as tackling old accounts, year and the outstanding balance had reduced since the and administratively cancelling them where there is no start of the financial year. On average over the last realistic chance of collection because they do not have 12 months 69% of accounts have been either closed or enough information to trace the debtors. This explains are compliant with payment terms by 12 months after the increase in the value of administrative cancellations imposition. seen in the figures. HMCTS are actively seeking an external provider for This enabled HMCTS to focus resources on increasing the future delivery of compliance and enforcement services. collections on accounts which can be enforced, resulting This will bring the necessary investment and innovation in the record high level of collection in 2012-13. to significantly improve the collection of criminal financial penalties and reduce the cost of the service to the HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) takes taxpayer. the issue of financial penalty enforcement very seriously and is working to ensure that clamping down on defaulters is a continued priority nationwide. HMCTS actively Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice pursues all outstanding impositions until certain they (1) what the value is of outstanding fines that were cannot be collected. Collection reached an all time high written off in each of the last four years; [186159] at the end of 2012-13 and collection has continued to (2) how many outstanding fines were written off in rise in this financial year. At the end of September 2013 each of the last four years. [186160] total collection (all imposition types excluding confiscation orders) was higher than the same point in the previous Mr Vara: The amounts of financial impositions year and the outstanding balance had reduced since the administratively cancelled and legally cancelled in each start of the financial year. On average over the last year since 2009-10 are set out in the following table: 12 months 69% of accounts have been either closed or are compliant with payment terms by 12 months after £ imposition. Administratively Legally cancelled cancelled HMCTS are actively seeking an external provider for the future delivery of compliance and enforcement services. 2009-10 58,277,772 47,398,379 This will bring the necessary investment and innovation 2010-11 62,263,874 50,712,367 to significantly improve the collection of criminal financial 2011-12 63,957,203 63,135,442 penalties and reduce the cost of the service to the 2012-13 62,594,601 75,868,426 taxpayer.

The number of financial impositions administratively Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice cancelled and legally cancelled in each year since 2011-12 how many outstanding fines remained uncollected on are set out in the following table. Data on the number of 31 December in each of the last four years. [186162] financial impositions cancelled is not available prior to 2011-12. Mr Vara: Data on the total number of financial Number imposition accounts outstanding has been available only Administratively since November 2012 so it is not possible to say how Legally cancelled cancelled many accounts remained outstanding at the end of December for each of the last four years. The available 2011-12 161,455 226,955 data is set out in the following table: 2012-13 165,195 269,486 Total number of financial imposition accounts outstanding It is not possible to identify the amounts or numbers Number written off for just the fine element. The amounts above December 2012 1,548,516 therefore include all elements of financial penalties September 2013 (latest published 1,371,089 (excluding confiscation orders): fines, costs, compensation period) and victim surcharge. The amounts cancelled in a particular year can relate to impositions from that year or any The numbers above relate to accounts which include previous year. fines, prosecutor costs, compensation and victim surcharge. Financial penalties are only administratively cancelled The number of outstanding accounts include those after all attempts to collect the amount outstanding which are being paid by instalments or are not yet due have been made, and in accordance with strict cancellation for payment. 707W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 708W

HM Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) takes In advance of this National Grid has developed the issue of financial penalty enforcement very seriously supplemental balancing reserve, a new balancing service and is working to ensure that clamping down on defaulters through which it will be able to procure further capacity is a continued priority nationwide. HMCTS actively should it be needed, including capacity that is or otherwise pursues all outstanding impositions until certain they intends to mothball or close. National Grid will only cannot be collected. Collection reached an all time high seek to competitively procure the amount of capacity at the end of 2012-13 and collection has continued to that its forecast determines necessary and expect to run rise in this financial year. At the end of September 2013 an initial tender process this spring for capacity for the total value of collection (all imposition types excluding winter of 2014-15 and 2015-16, with the possibility of confiscation orders) was higher than the same point in extending this period if necessary. the previous year and the outstanding balance had reduced since the start of the financial year. On average over the last 12 months 69% of accounts have been Energy: Prices either closed or are compliant with payment terms by 12 months after imposition. Dr Whitehead: To ask the Secretary of State for HMCTS are actively seeking an external provider for Energy and Climate Change what estimates he has the future delivery of compliance and enforcement services. made of the effect of his plans to establish a capacity This will bring the necessary investment and innovation market on (a) domestic and (b) industrial energy bills to significantly improve the collection of criminal financial between (i) 2015 to 2020 and (ii) 2021 to 2025. [194140] penalties and reduce the cost of the service to the taxpayer. Michael Fallon: The impact of the capacity market on bills was estimated for the Electricity Market Reform Impact Assessment which can be found at: ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/288463/final_delivery_plan_ia.pdf Energy The results represent the net impact of capacity payments (beginning in 2018-19) and wholesale price impacts Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for relative to a no capacity market scenario and are presented Energy and Climate Change how many applications his as follows in £, percentage and £/MWh terms. Department has received for (a) one-year, (b) three-year and (c) 15-year contracts relating to (i) gas and (ii) coal Estimated net impact of the capacity market on average annual electricity bills under the capacity market. [194282] £ Michael Fallon: National Grid, as delivery body for Real 2012 Energy Intensive Electrical Market Reform, will run the first capacity prices Domestic sector Industry auction in December 2014, subject to the passage of 2015 to 2020 7 220,000 secondary legislation and state aid approval being received. 2021 to 2025 20 620,000 Pre-qualification for the first capacity auction is expected to open on 4 August 2014 and the first round of the Estimated net impact of the capacity market on average annual auction is expected to take place on 9 December 2014. electricity bills Consequently, National Grid has not yet received any Percentage applications for agreements under the Capacity Market. Real 2012 Energy Intensive prices Domestic sector Industry A detailed timetable for the implementation of the Capacity Market is available here: 2015 to 2020 1.3 2.0 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ 2021 to 2025 3.2 5.3 attachment_data/file/268629/ Capacity_Market_Implementation_Plan_FINAL.pdf Estimated net impact of the capacity market on average annual electricity prices Energy: Competition £/MWh Real 2012 Energy Intensive Nigel Adams: To ask the Secretary of State for prices Domestic sector Industry Energy and Climate Change whether his Department 2015 to 2020 2.4 2.3 has plans to extend the life of generating capacity currently scheduled to be closed in the event that delays 2021 to 2025 6.4 6.5 in new investment arise as a result of uncertainty about the outcome of the competition investigation by the However, as set out in the EMR Impact Assessment, Competition and Markets Authority. [194312] we believe that our current modelling may over-estimate the net bill impact of the Capacity Market. Additional Michael Fallon: Government’s plans for the Capacity investment in generating capacity, paid for through the Market and interim arrangements being put in place by Capacity Market, should reduce volatility in the wholesale National Grid ahead of this will offer an opportunity to electricity price, since it ensures we avoid scarcity situations extend the life of existing capacity where it is economically where prices spike and costly blackouts occur. As there efficient to do so. Subject to state aid approval the first is limited evidence on the behaviour of wholesale prices Capacity Market auction will take place in late 2014 for under conditions of low capacity margins, there is delivery in winter 2018. This will ensure sufficient capacity considerable uncertainty about what the overall bill into the coming decades by offering regular payments impact of the Capacity Market might be, especially to existing and new generation capacity that is successful when compared to a world without a Capacity Market at auction. to address security of supply issues. 709W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 710W

Fossil Fuels: Safety Mr Laws: The requested information is provided in the following table:

Sir Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for GCE A-level results1 of students aged 16 to 18,2 years 2008/09 and Energy and Climate Change how many old oil and gas 2012/133, coverage: City of Chester parliamentary constituency4 wells there are in the UK for which no firm or company Number of students entered for: is responsible; and how such wells are monitored for Biological Further leaks. [193643] sciences Chemistry Physics Mathematics mathematics

2008/09 70 51 51 101 11 Michael Fallon: A recently published paper by the ReFINE research consortium estimates that there are 2012/13 92 84 61 119 21 1 Includes A-levels only. between fifty and a hundred historic wells in the UK for 2 Covers students aged 16, 17 or 18 at the start of the 2012/13 which no responsible person can be identified. academic year, i.e. 31 August. Oil and gas wells in the UK which have no further 3 Figures for 2012/13 are revised and 2008/09 figures are final. 4 usefulness are treated to ensure the retention of any Covers all state-funded mainstream schools, academies, free schools, maintained special schools and FE sector colleges (excludes independent fluids within the well. The bore is sealed with concrete schools, pupil referral units and other Government Department-funded). plugs, while the well head it cut off below ground level Note: and a steel cap welded to the top. The abandonment Where qualifications taken by a student are in the same subject area operations are subject to scrutiny by the HSE and the and similar in content, “discounting” rules have been applied to avoid ″ ″ independent well examiner, and must comply with relevant double counting qualifications. Please see the Technical Notes in the Main text of the SFR available at: industry standards. The site will then be restored to the https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/a-level-and-other-level- appropriate standard prescribed by planning conditions. 3-results-england-2012-to-2013-revised Wells are not monitored after the completion of the Source: abandonment and site restoration operations. The ReFINE Key Stage 5 attainment data. paper confirms that there are no pollution issues associated with historic oil and gas wells in the UK. GCSE: Cheshire

Sir Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what steps he plans to take Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for to prevent leaks and improve monitoring at existing (a) Education how many students obtained eight GCSE B in use and (b) extinct or abandoned onshore oil and gas grades or above in (a) City of Chester constituency and (b) Cheshire West and Chester council area in (i) sites. [193663] 2009 and (ii) 2013. [194070] Michael Fallon: The construction and use of oil and gas wells in the UK is subject to stringent regulation by Mr Laws: The following table gives the number and the HSE to ensure the integrity of the well in all phases proportion of pupils who achieved at least eight full of its life. Recognised industry design and construction GCSEs (GCSE and equivalents) at B grade or above in processes must be followed, and the operator’s work (a) City of Chester constituency and (b) Cheshire and plans are subject to scrutiny by an independent well West and Chester council area in (i) 2009 and (ii) 2013. examiner as well as the HSE. Monitoring and inspections A national figure has been included as an appropriate are be carried out by the Environment Agency, the HSE comparator. and the independent well examiner as appropriate. Oil 1 and gas wells which have no further usefulness are Number and percentage of pupils achieving at least 8 GCSEs at grade B or above plugged and capped to ensure the retention of any Number of Number of Percentage of fluids in the well. eligible pupils2 pupils pupils

We seek to improve this robust regulatory system 3 further wherever practicable. Further consideration is 2008/09 being given to control and monitoring of methane City of Chester 1,028 223 21.7 emissions in the light of the recommendations of the Cheshire West 3,979 776 19.5 report by Prof David Mackay and Dr Tim Stone on and Chester potential greenhouse gas emissions associated with shale England 576,420 100,833 17.5 gas production and use, published in September 2013. 2012/133 City of Chester 1,092 236 21.6 Cheshire West 3,835 819 21.4 EDUCATION and Chester England 569,118 115,897 20.4 1 Figures are based on full GCSEs and equivalents. These include full GCE A-level: Cheshire GCSEs, double awards, accredited international certificates and their predecessor iGCSEs and AS levels. Pupils are included if they have achieved 8 or more GCSEs at either a grade B, A, or A*. Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for 2 Pupils at the end of key stage 4 in each academic year. Education how many students sat A-levels in (a) 3 Figures for 2008/09 are based on final data. Figures for 2012/13 are mathematics, (b) further mathematics, (c) physics, (d) based on revised data. Coverage: England, state-funded schools (including chemistry and (e) biology in (i) City of Chester constituency academies and CTCs). and (ii) Cheshire West and Chester council area in (A) Source: National Pupil Database. 2009 and (B) 2013. [194068] 711W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 712W

Literacy Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps she has taken to ensure Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Education the Emergency Services Mobile Communications what the functional literacy rates were in each (a) local Programme delivers a cost effective network that meets authority area and (b) region in each of the last 10 years. the standards of security and resilience essential for [193804] mission-critical communications. [194001]

Mr Laws: Tables showing the percentage of pupils Damian Green: The programme has undertaken an achieving level 4 or above in reading and writing at the extensive market engagement exercise to help determine end of key stage 21 at local authority level for the past the technical and commercial feasibility of the proposed four years are published in the ’National curriculum Emergency Services Network (ESN). The results of assessments at key stage two’ statistical first release these industry soundings indicate that it should be (SFR). A copy of the data has been placed in the House possible to move to Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) Library. solution based technologies that will be more cost effective Information on the percentage of pupils achieving and will allow the Emergency Services communications A* to C and A* to G grades in English GCSE2 nationally to evolve in line with developments in the consumer for the last 10 years are published in the ’GCSE and market. The outline business case, approved in March equivalent results’ SFR. A copy is placed in the House 2014, included costs for the security and resilience Library. enhancements required to provide the appropriate service Key stage 2 reading and writing figures for earlier levels for ESN users. years and English GCSE figures at local authority level Asylum: Syria could be provided only at disproportionate cost. 1 These figures are published in the “National curriculum assessments at key stage 2” statistical first releases for each year. John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2 These figures are published in the ″GCSE and equivalent Home Department (1) what (a) accommodation provision, results″ statistical first releases for each year. (b) employment programmes and (c) other resettlement provision has been made for Syrian refugees who come Schools: Musical Instruments to the UK as part of the resettlement deal; [192649] (2) how long the UK plans to host Syrian refugees Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for Education who come as part of the resettlement deal; and whether what proportion of secondary school children in England such refugees will be issued with a visa for a specified learning to play a musical instrument in school (a) paid time period. [192656] a charge and (b) received their tuition free of charge in school years (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11, (iii) 2011-12, (iv) James Brokenshire: The first beneficiaries of the Syrian 2012-13 and (v) 2013-14. [194313] Vulnerable Persons Relocation (VPR) scheme arrived in the UK on 25 March. This is the result of excellent Elizabeth Truss: I refer the right hon. Lady to the co-operation with UNHCR, the International Organisation answer I gave on 1 April 2014, Official Report, column for Migration and local authority services, which has 631W, on Schools: Musical Instruments. allowed us to identify vulnerable individuals in need of evacuation and ensure that the support they need is in place in the UK. These support packages are tailored HOME DEPARTMENT on a case by case basis to ensure that specific requirements for those relocated under the scheme are met and include Airwave Service health, education and integration support. Those admitted under the VPR scheme will be granted Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for the five years’ Humanitarian Protection, with all the rights Home Department what assurances she has received and benefits that go with that status. This includes from operators of commercially available mobile networks access to public funds, access to the labour market and that the emergency services will be able to over-ride the possibility of family reunion. If the situation in commercial or public traffic during emergencies. Syria stabilises, they may choose to return home. However, [194000] at the end of the five years, if they have not been able to Damian Green: The Emergency Services Mobile return to Syria, they may be eligible to apply for settlement Communications Programme has worked with the Mobile in the UK. Network Operators (MNOs) since February 2013, running Borders: Personal Records a series of supplier workshops and market engagement sessions throughout 2013 and the first quarter of 2014 ahead of procurement launch. The MNOs have run a Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for the series of capability demonstrations, organised by the Home Department how many passengers travelled to programme, to showcase development of this technical the UK on routes connected to the Semaphore system solution. The programme has confidence that this capability in (a) 2011, (b) 2012 and (c) 2013. [191338] is deliverable. The MNOs met the Minister for the James Brokenshire: The total number of passengers Cabinet Office during February 2014, where they confirmed who travelled to the UK on routes connected to the their ability and willingness to deliver the technology Semaphore system were approximately as follows: required to enable the emergency services to operate effectively over a commercially available mobile network, (a) 66.5 million in 2011 including provision of prioritisation of Emergency Service (b) 64.5 million in 2012 traffic. (c) 78.8 million in 2013 713W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 714W

Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for the James Brokenshire: The following table provides the Home Department (1) when the decision to cancel the total number of foreign national offenders removed in e-borders programme was taken; [192028] each year from 2010 to 2013. (2) what commercial tenders have been received for a Removals of foreign national offenders, 2010 to 2013 new system to introduce exit checks and replace the Number of foreign national e-borders programme; [192029] offenders removed (3) how many full-time equivalent officials in her 2010 5,342 Department of each grade have worked on the e-borders 2011 4,649 programme in each year since 2010; [192030] 2012 4,765 (4) what estimate she has made of the cost of 2013 4,667 merging the e-borders programme into the border Source: system programme. [192031] able rv_07_q, Removals and voluntary departures Data Tables Volume 2, James Brokenshire: The activities of the e-Borders ‘Immigration Statistics: October—December 2013’ programme have been absorbed into the Border Systems Deportations are a specific subset of removals which Programme. The estimated cost to close the e-Borders are enforced either following a criminal conviction or programme and define the Border Systems Programme when it is judged that a person’s removal from the UK was £340,000. These costs are attributable to civil servants is conducive to the public good. The deportation order already in post and there has been no additional expenditure prohibits the person returning to the UK until such or procurement in order to move the work from e-Borders time as it may be revoked. Most foreign national offenders to Border Systems. are removed via deportation or the Home Office enforces The procurement approach to replacing the primary their departure to ensure they leave the UK. border security elements of the Border Systems Programme The Home Office publishes quarterly and annual will reflect broader Government ICT and Commercial statistics on the number of persons removed or departed strategy, and there will be no single, large supplier. The voluntarily from the UK within Immigration Statistics. Home Office will lead development, with services procured Quarterly data on removals of foreign national offenders from a range of providers, potentially including small are available in the latest release, ‘Immigration Statistics: and medium enterprises; no tenders have been received October—December 2013’, table rv_07_q, from the Library at this time. of the House and from the Home Office Science website By March 2015 the Border Systems Programme aims at: to: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration- statistics-october-to-december-2013 Complete resilience of all current business critical systems; Develop replacement primary border security systems; Entry Clearances: Overseas Students Provide the capability to support commitments on exit checks; Establish a programme for the next generation of Radiological and Nuclear detection (Cyclamen); Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will place in the Library a Continue the implementation of second generation e-Gates record of the regions and sub-regions within the UK across the estate; subject to the highest number of refusals of people Develop and implement new freight targeting capability for seeking a visa to study in institutions in the UK. Sea Containers; [193529] Establish contracts to purchase new detection equipment; Continue to assure live operations of existing systems. James Brokenshire: The Home Office does not hold The breakdown of FTE civil servants engaged by the information on the numbers of Tier 4 visas refused for e-Borders and subsequently the Border Systems Programme study at institutions, by regions and sub-regions, within in each year since 2010, is: the UK in the format requested and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. December December December December 2010 2011 2012 2013 Human Trafficking: Victim Support Schemes SCS PB 2 1 1 1 0 SCS PB 1 2 1 2 2 Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for the G6 7.8 7.8 7.8 9.8 Home Department how many survivors of human G7 11.8 9.8 10.8 17.8 trafficking who have been placed in shelters funded by SEO/HMI 33.5 34.7 48.8 49.7 the Government through the Salvation Army received HEO/CIO 26 25.4 22.5 30.9 support from the government victim care contract EO/IO 22 19.3 25 20.8 specialist support providers to develop a move-on AO/PS7553strategy in (a) 2012 and (b) 2013; how many of these victims were (i) men and (ii) women; how many (A) men and (B) women are still receiving such support; Deportation: Offenders and if she will make a statement. [191305]

Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Karen Bradley: Support to develop a move-on strategy Home Department how many deportations of foreign is offered to all victims supported under the Government national offenders there were in each year since 2010. victim-care contract. The number of victims who have [194087] received Government-funded support are given as follows. 715W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 716W

Immigration Controls: Northern Ireland Year of entry to Trans- service Female Male gender Total Mr Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what assessment has been made of 2013 387 270 2 659 the effect on Northern Ireland of recent changes to 2012 246 163 - 409 immigration rules in respect of Romania and Bulgaria. Total 633 433 2 1,068 [193859] Of the above, the numbers still receiving such support, James Brokenshire: Statistics will be published in the by calendar year of entry and gender: normal way by the Office for National Statistics and the Year of entry to Department for Work and Pensions. The first statistics service Female Male Total covering the period after the expiry of transitional controls will be published in May 2014. 2013 96 23 119 2012 0 1 1 Members: Correspondence Total 96 24 120 Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Home Department when she intends to reply to the Home Department with how many victims of human letter to her dated 13 February 2014 from the right trafficking the government victims care contract hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to specialist support providers are now working; and if Mr Momin Khan. [193033] she will make a statement. [191306] James Brokenshire: I wrote to the right hon. Member on 26 March 2014. Karen Bradley: The number of victims of human trafficking the Government victim-care contract specialist Proceeds of Crime support providers are currently working with is as follows: Currently supported in service Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for the Number Home Department if she will review the current Female 219 requirements for seizing property or cash under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 to bring those requirements Male 78 into line with the new powers of HM Revenue and Total 297 Customs to seize money from an individual’s bank account without a warrant. [194067] Illegal Immigrants: Employment Karen Bradley: The Government’s Serious and Organised Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Crime Strategy clearly sets out our plans to attack Home Department how many fines levied under the criminal finances by making it harder to move, hide and Immigration (Employment of Adults Subject to use the proceeds of crime. These include measures to Immigration Control) (Maximum Penalty) Order 2008 enable assets to be frozen more quickly and earlier in of a value of (a) up to £1000, (b) between £1000 and investigations, reduce the time that courts give offenders £2000, (c) between £2000 and £5000 and (d) between to pay confiscation orders, and make it easier for magistrates £5000 and £10000 remained unpaid. [194135] to confiscate cash held in bank accounts. Trade Unions James Brokenshire: Information on how many fines levied under the Immigration (Employment of Adults Subject to Immigration Control) (Maximum Penalty) Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Order 2008 of a value of (a) up to £1,000, (b) between the Home Department whether her Department is (a) £1,000 and £2,000, (c) between £2,000 and £5,000 and undertaking or (b) plans to undertake a review of the (d) £5,000 and £10,000 remained unpaid, is not recorded check-off union subscription provision. [194042] in a format compatible with National Statistics protocols. Data constraints on electronic records mean that the Karen Bradley: The Home Office has already undertaken Home Office would have to examine in detail a large a review of its check-off union subscription provision. number of individual case files in order to ascertain the information required. The cost of producing the data linking civil penalties issued to our accounting system CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT for civil penalties which remain unpaid by value would be at a disproportionate cost to the Home Office. Arts: Finance However, the Home Office has collected £30.6 million in fines through the life of the regime and the current Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, total value of outstanding collectable debt is £14.6 million. Media and Sport pursuant to her answer of 25 March The Home Office is using the Immigration Bill to 2014, Official Report, columns 165-6W, on art: finance, make it easier to enforce civil penalty debts in the courts what proportion of the total funding given by her and is incorporating debt recovery best practice from Department’s public bodies was used to support creative across Government Departments, with earlier initiation industries in (a) London and (b) Greater Manchester of legal proceedings for debt recovery if required. in each of the last three years. [193877] 717W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 718W

Mr Vaizey: We do not hold this information centrally Boxing: Northern Ireland and to obtain it would incur disproportionate cost. Betting Shops Mr Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what discussions she has had with representatives of boxing in Northern Ireland on the Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for choice of which country they represent at international Culture, Media and Sport how many betting shops competitions level. [193858] have had their licences revoked in each year since 2005; and what the reasons were in each such case. [193830] Mrs Grant: I meet with representatives of national governing bodies on a regular basis-eligibility and selection Mrs Grant: The law governing betting shop licensing for international competition remains a matter for the changed with effect from 1 September 2007. Operating relevant sports authorities. licences are issued and revoked by the Gambling Commission and the table shows revocations of operating licences since the law changed in 2007. Licensed betting Broadband offices also require a premises licence; these are issued and revoked by local licensing authorities however central Sir Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for figures on the number of premises licence revocations Culture, Media and Sport what assessment she has each year are not collated. This is therefore an incomplete made of the effectiveness of the Ofcom voluntary code picture of total revocations. of practice on broadband speeds; and if she will make a statement. [193662] Non-remote general betting standard (betting shop) operating licences revoked Mr Vaizey: Ofcom is the independent national regulatory Revoked authority for communications and the voluntary code Revoked for non- regarding issues payment of fees arising from a of practice on broadband speeds falls within their remit. Financial to the Gambling change of Total The code of practice was introduced in 2008 to ensure year Commission corporate control revocations that consumers receive accurate information on broadband speeds at the point of sale to allow them to make 2007- 000 081 informed purchasing decisions. The code, which was 2008- 13 0 13 subsequently updated in 2010, requires internet service 092 providers to provide consumers with information on 2009-10 10 0 10 the maximum speed they can achieve, including an 2010-11 7 0 7 estimated speed range to help ensure that consumers 2011-12 2 1 3 choose the package that is the most appropriate for them in light of their individual circumstances and 2012-13 6 1 7 needs. All the largest internet service providers representing 2013-14 0 0 0 98% of the broadband consumer market are signed up 1 Operating licences were first issued by the Gambling Commission in September 2007. to the Code and have agreed to abide by its principles 2 A breakdown of figures from detailed records is not available other and spirit. than at disproportionate cost for the remainder of 2008. During that Ofcom has undertaken successive mystery shopping period an additional 54 operating licences of various types were also revoked for the non-payment of annual fees to the Gambling Commission. exercises to check compliance with the Code. Results have shown that the level of compliance has continued Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for to improve. The latest results published in May 2013 Culture, Media and Sport (1) if she will define primary found that overall 96% of mystery shopping callers gambling activity criteria to identify the extent to were provided with a speed estimate (93% in 2011-12). which betting shops rely on non-betting activities; There was also an improvement overall in the provision [193882] of speeds information provided to mystery shoppers via the web. All signatories to the Code, with the exception (2) what action the Gambling Commission takes with of two small providers, offered a speed checker which licensed operators where provision of betting facilities provide estimated access line speeds. The percentage of appears non-compliant with primary gambling activity assessments where any speed estimate was given via the measures; [193884] website rose from 87% in 2011-12 to 92% in 2013. (3) how long betting shops are given by the Gambling Ofcom is currently discussing with industry and consumer Commission to comply with the requirements surrounding groups, its proposals to revise the Code to reflect significant their primary gambling activity. [193829] changes in the broadband market since the Code’s introduction, with the increased take up of superfast Mrs Grant: The Gambling Commission has produced packages. The proposals include improving the information detailed advice regarding primary gambling activity in on speeds for consumers buying superfast packages to their Licence Conditions and Codes of Practice and equal that received by consumers buying current generation related advice and works with local authorities to ensure services. these requirements are complied with. This work includes direct interaction with licensed operators in cases where the provision of betting facilities has appeared to be Consumer Rights Bill non-compliant. The approach taken varies based on the circumstances of each case and there is no standard Stella Creasy: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, timetable; however a formal operating licence review Media and Sport what meetings officials in her Department has formed part of this approach on 18 occasions. have had with officials from the Department for Business, 719W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 720W

Innovations and Skills on the implications of the Consumer Mrs Grant: The DCMS is undertaking a review of Rights Bill for (a) licence fee payers and (b) the BBC; the check-off union subscription provision in line with and what the Civil Service grades of officials present Cabinet Office guidance issued in December 2013. were. [193794] Working Hours Mr Vaizey: There has been regular contact with BIS and DCMS officials regarding the impact of the Consumer Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Rights Bill, as is the norm for the development of Media and Sport what proportion of employees in her primary legislation. There were no meetings between Department of each (a) civil service pay grade and (b) DCMS and BIS officials to specifically discuss the gender work (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, (iii) from impact on licence fee payers or on the BBC licence fee. home, (iv) a compressed working week, (v) job share, BIS consulted widely on consumer law reform in (vi) term-time only and (vii) part-time. [193959] 2008 and 2012, and published a draft Bill for pre-legislative scrutiny in 2013. BIS has also completed full impact Mrs Grant: The Department has a flexible working assessments for the provisions in the Bill. guide and working from home policy which allows employees to work from home, compressed hours, job Public Expenditure share and during term-time only.Remote working facilities are available to all staff, enabling them to work from Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for home or other locations as if they are in the office. Staff Culture, Media and Sport what the projected spending at all grades can work from home by agreement. is by her Department in 2015-16 by functional flows to The proportion of employees in the Department (a) (a) museums and galleries, (b) communications, (c) civil service pay grade and (b) gender are shown in the libraries, (d) tourism, (e) the Royal Parks, (f) equalities, tables: (g) BBC Public Sector broadcasting, (h) S4C, (i) arts, (j) sports, (k) gambling and National Lottery, (l) Pay grade architecture and the historic environment and (m) the Percentage creative industries, disaggregating (i) grant-in-aid and SCS Grade 6/7 SEO/HEO EO Lottery and (ii) capital and current expenditure. Work 0 0.51 0.76 0 [194280] from home Mrs Grant: The information is as follows. Compressed 0 0.51 0.25 0 hours Funding for 2015-16 Job 00 00 £000 Share Centrally funded/Grant Lottery Term 00 00 in Aid time Areas of spending Resource Capital Resource Capital Part- 1.27 3.55 3.55 1.52 Museums and 289,423 27,614 — — time Galleries hours Communications 11,794 266,000 — — Gender Libraries 90,160 3,221 — — Percentage Tourism 26,632 186 — — Male Female The Royal Parks 11,368 1,865 — — Equalities 27,127 387 — — Work 0.76 0.51 1 from BBC ————home 2 S4C 6,787 — — — Compressed 0.51 0.25 Arts 356,564 12,749 238,676 40,509 hours Sport 114,720 25,265 277,568 54,937 Part-time 0.76 10.15 Gambling and ————hours National Lottery1 We do not keep central records of employees who Architecture and 106,419 14,269 — — work flexi time. Staff can work flexi time by agreement. the Historic Staff at all grades can work from home on an ad-hoc Environment basis with agreement from their line managers. Staff Creative 25,928 1,532 45,292 — listed as working from home on the tables above reflect Industries those who are fully home based. 1 This information is not yet available. 2 S4C is now funded almost entirely from the BBC Licence fee receipts. Note: The table details all ’functional flows’ funded centrally, through CABINET OFFICE Grant-in-Aid or from the National Lottery. Trade Unions Airwave Service

Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Keith Vaz: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Culture, Media and Sport whether her Department is how many Government contracts have been given to (a) undertaking or (b) plans to undertake a review of Airwave; and what the (a) value and (b) duration is of the check-off union subscription provision. [194035] each such contract. [194011] 721W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 722W

Mr Hurd: Since January 2011, as part of the work (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, (iii) from home, Government’s transparency programme, details of contracts (iv) a compressed working week, (v) job share, (vi) above the value of £10,000 are published on Contracts term-time only and (vii) part-time; [193957] Finder at: (2) what proportion of employees in No. 10 https://www.gov.uk/contracts-finder Downing Street of what (a) Civil Service pay grade and (b) gender work (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, Emergency Services: Telecommunications (iii) from home, (iv) a compressed working week, (v) job share, (vi) term-time only and (vii) part-time. Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet [193971] Office (1) what scrutiny the Major Projects Authority has given to the Emergency Services Mobile Mr Maude: The Prime Minister’s Office is an integral Communications Programme; [194002] part of the Cabinet Office. (2) what Red, Amber, Green ratings the Major Some of the information requested is not held centrally. Projects Authority has given to the Emergency Services However, all of these options are available to employees Communications Programme. [194003] subject to business needs. Fewer than five employees are currently recorded as Mr Maude: The Major Projects Authority (MPA) has working (iii) from home in a formal arrangement. been applying MPA assurance processes to the Emergency Services Mobile Communications Programme (ESMCP) The proportion of employees by Pay Grade who including a Project Assessment Review and Gateway work part-time hours as at 28 February 2014 is shown Reviews. Further information on the ESMCP Programme in the following table. is available at the following link: CO Payband (CS Equivalent) Part-time (percentage) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-emergency- services-mobile-communications-programme PERM SEC 0 Delivery Confidence Assessment ratings are supplied SCS3 14 according to the MPA’s Transparency Policy which is SCS2 5 on the Cabinet Office website. The policy allows for SCSI 8 non-disclosure of information which should properly A/BAND A (Grade 6/7) 5 remain confidential, for example where it is market B2/BAND B2 (HEO/SEO) 6 sensitive or necessary to safeguard national security. B/Faststream 0 This will be in line with the principles of the Freedom B1/BANDB1 (EO) 9 of Information Act 2000 which is available at: C/BAND C (AA/AO) 10 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/major-projects- transparency-policy-and-exemptions-guidance The proportion of employees by gender who work The DCA for ESMCP was not revealed in MPA’s part-time hours as at 28 February 2014 is shown in the first annual report last year in line with the above policy. following table. The next annual report of the MPA is due to be published in May. Gender Part-time (percentage) Procurement Female 12 Male 1 Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the (a) 20 highest and (b) 20 lowest value contracts awarded by his Department were in each WORK AND PENSIONS financial year since 2009-10. [194214] Conditions of Employment Mr Maude: Under this Government’s transparency programme, contracts are published on Contracts Finder Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Work which is available at: and Pensions how many people have been referred to jobs on zero-hours contracts through Jobcentre Plus in https://www.gov.uk/contracts-finder each month since May 2010. [194204] Trade Unions Esther McVey: Jobseekers are not required to apply for zero-hours contract vacancies, they will not be Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet sanctioned as a result of not applying. Office whether his Department is (a) undertaking or (b) plans to undertake a review of the check-off union Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Work subscription provision. [194033] and Pensions how many people have moved off jobseeker’s allowance to jobs on zero-hours contracts Mr Maude: Arrangements of this sort are kept under in each month since May 2010. [194205] review. Esther McVey: These data are not available. Working Hours Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Lucy Powell: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet and Pensions what guidance is issued to Jobcentre Plus Office (1) what proportion of employees in his Department on recommending jobs on zero-hours contracts. of each (a) Civil Service pay grade and (b) gender [194206] 723W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 724W

Esther McVey: Jobcentre Plus guidance stipulates is required in order to see whether and, if so, to what that claimants should not be mandated to apply for a extent the removal of the spare room subsidy has impacted job offering a zero hours contract. It also states that no on rent arrears levels. sanction action will be taken if claimants refuse or fail A consortium led by Ipsos-MORI and which includes to apply. A person leaving a zero hours contract job will the Cambridge Centre for Housing and Planning Research not be sanctioned if they leave that job voluntarily or has been commissioned to carry out a two year monitoring lose it through their misconduct. of the effects of the removal of the spare room subsidy measure across Great Britain. Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The Homes and Communities Agency reported in and Pensions what proportion and number of job outcomes February that the median level of arrears among the from the work programme were in zero-hours contracts larger housing associations had fallen from 4.1% in the roles in each month since the programme began. second quarter of 2013-14 to 3.9% in the third quarter [194207] of 2013-14.

Esther McVey: The information requested is not held Jobcentre Plus by the Department. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions what estimate has been made of and Pensions what proportion and number of jobs how much his Department is likely to save annually as currently advertised through Jobcentre Plus are on a result of the removal of warm phones from Jobcentre [194317] zero-hour contracts. [194208] Plus offices. Esther McVey: We estimate ongoing yearly total savings Esther McVey: We do not advertise in jobcentres, all of £1.92 million from 2014-15. vacancies are now advertised on Universal Jobmatch, Savings will be reinvested in providing extra digital JSA claimants are not required to apply for zero-hour equipment to support the delivery of an assisted service contract jobs and are not penalised if they leave such a for vulnerable claimants. job. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing Work and Pensions whether his Department records the number of referrals made to local third-sector advice providers (a) to use the telephone, (b) for help Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State filling in forms and (c) providing other support. for Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer to the [194318] hon. Member for Rhondda of 27 March 2014, Official Report, column 347W, on housing benefit: social rented Esther McVey: It is not our policy to refer people to sector, if he will commission a one year evaluation of third-sector providers to use the telephone or get help in the effects of the under-occupancy penalty. [194295] filling in our forms. As such we do not collect this information. Where third party providers are the most Esther McVey: We have already commissioned a two suitable people to provide support or advice we would year evaluation of the effects of the removal of the signpost claimants to them. spare room subsidy across Great Britain. The evaluation commenced in April 2013 and is being led by Ipsos-MORI Jobseeker’s Allowance: Scotland and includes the Cambridge Centre for Housing and Planning Research. The final report will be published in Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work late 2015. and Pensions what proportion of sanctions imposed on jobseeker’s allowance claimants in Scotland resulted Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State from the recommendations of Work Programme providers for Work and Pensions how many social housing between March 2013 and March 2014. [193864] tenants who were liable to pay the under-occupancy Esther McVey: The specific information requested is penalty have moved house since 1 April 2013. [194296] not readily available and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Esther McVey: The information is not readily available and has not previously been published as official statistics. Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what proportion of jobseeker’s allowance Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State claimants in Scotland were referred to the benefit for Work and Pensions for what reasons his sanctions regime introduced in October 2012 in each Department has not published data on the effects of month from March 2013 to March 2014. [193866] the under-occupancy penalty on the number of social housing tenants who have moved home or fallen into Esther McVey: The information requested on referral rent arrears. [194297] rates is not available. Statistics on the number of jobseeker’s allowance Esther McVey: It is still too early in the policy’s benefit claimants, who have been sanctioned in Scotland, lifetime to draw any firm conclusions as to its effect, by sanction level, from March 2013, up to September including the number of tenants who have moved home. 2013 which is the latest data available, are published and Rent arrears can have multiple causes and levels tend to can be found at: fluctuate over time. A longer time frame than one year https://stat-xplore.dwp.gov.uk/ 725W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 726W

Guidance for users is available at: report and accounts 2013. Remploy performance targets https://sw.stat-xplore.dwp.gov.uk/webapi/online-help/Stat- and funding for 2014-15 will be published alongside the Xplore_User_Guide.htm 2014 accounts later this year. Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many fixed-length sanctions of (a) Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work high, (b) medium and (c) low level were imposed on and Pensions (1) for what reasons the three year wage jobseeker’s allowance claimants in Scotland in each subsidy for former Remploy disabled employees month from March 2013 to March 2014. [193867] transferring to a new employer was not available for new businesses set up for the purpose of employing Esther McVey: Statistics on the number of jobseeker’s disabled people formerly employed by Remploy; allowance benefit claimants, who have been sanctioned [193870] in Scotland, by sanction level, from March 2013, up to September 2013 which is the latest data available, are (2) if he will extend the Welsh model of assistance published and can be found at: offered to former Remploy employees setting up a business and not subject to TUPE provisions to England https://stat-xplore.dwp.gov.uk/ and Scotland. [193917] Guidance for users is available at: https://sw.stat-xplore.dwp.gov.uk/webapi/online-help/Stat- Xplore_User_Guide.htm Mike Penning: The Government agreed to a transitional Occupational Pensions time limited wage subsidy, for all disabled workers that TUPE to a new employer as part of Remploy’s commercial Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and process, to support the ongoing employment of Remploy Pensions what estimate he has made of the number of disabled workers. people enrolled in hybrid workplace pension schemes. For all disabled former Remploy workers made [194179] redundant as a result of factory closures, the Government agreed that the best support to help them find a job was Steve Webb: The Pensions Regulator provides automatic to put in place the £8 million guaranteed People Help enrolment data. The most recent information is available and Support Package (PHSP) providing help for up to at the following location: 18 months. As at 21 March 2014, 1,513 disabled former http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/docs/automatic- Remploy workers are choosing to work with our personal enrolment-commentary-analysis-2013.pdf case workers to find another job and 716 are in work. This will be updated in July 2014. The PHSP includes one-to-one support from a personal Pensions case worker to identify suitable help to find work including access to advice and support to set up a business. This Gregg McClymont: To ask the Secretary of State for includes the Community Support Fund, which has provided Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of financial support for former disabled Remploy workers the effect of the planned changes to pensions on to help them use existing skills and expertise to set up retirement incomes from private and workplace three new small businesses in Aberdeen, Stoke and pensions. [193939] Worksop. In addition, three other Community Support Fund projects are being used to set up small businesses Steve Webb: The Government believes people should in Birkenhead, Leeds and Newcastle. be trusted to make their own choices about how to use their savings to fund their retirement. These measures fundamentally change the way that people can access Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work their retirement savings, and therefore people are free to and Pensions for what reasons the Community Support vary the mix of income and capital they hold in retirement. Fund for former Remploy employees was only Alongside these changes, the government is taking accessible through a third party and what estimate he measures to ensure everyone approaching retirement is has made of how many eligible former Remploy aware of the choices they have. Pension providers and employees did not make a claim because they were schemes will be required, by April 2015, to offer all unable to do so themselves. [193881] individuals retiring with a defined contribution pension pot free and impartial face-to-face guidance on their retirement choices. Mike Penning: The Community Support Fund (CSF) was co-produced with disabled people and ex-Remploy Remploy employees to determine exactly what type of support or project they wanted to take part in. A key driver for the Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work CSF was to ensure ex-employees could keep in touch and Pensions what funding his Department has agreed with former work colleagues; to help negate feelings of to provide in future years for former Remploy Employment isolation. This social activity can be achieved only by Services; and until what year such funding will continue. offering opportunities for ex-employees to take part in [193869] group activities. Esther McVey: The Department agrees Remploy funding Access to CSF was provided through disabled people’s and performance targets, including Work Choice job user led and voluntary sector organisations who have outcome targets on an annual basis. Remploy’s performance the necessary skills to support these projects, providing targets for 2013-14 were published on 31 October 2013, vital peer support, personalised local services and actively Official Report, column 60WS, by written ministerial working to increase participation in local community statement confirming publication of Remploy annual activities. 727W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 728W

The Community Support Fund (CSF) projects have Road Traffic Control provided opportunities for 1,136 disabled ex-employees and 827 people have taken part in CSF activities at March 2014. Dr McCrea: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what steps the Health and Safety We are unable to provide an estimate of how many Executive has taken to enforce the Health and Safety at eligible former Remploy employees did not make a Work Act 1974 in respect of employees in the traffic claim for CSF funding because they were unable to do management industry in the last 10 years for which so themselves. information is available. [193976]

Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mike Penning: This information is not held centrally and Pensions for what reasons his Department paid the to the level of detail required to distinguish the traffic majority of the support package for former Remploy management sector from others in the construction workers to Job Centre Plus for a rapid response team; industry. It would incur disproportionate cost to find what that rapid response did to assist former Remploy this information. employees; and what the outcome of that assistance was. [193887] The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) works with the industry to help develop traffic management layouts or schemes which improve the safety of those working Mike Penning: The Rapid Response Service (RRS) on high speed roads. It also carries out investigations of was made available to all former affected Remploy incidents and complaints and takes enforcement action employees and was funded separately to the £8 million in line with its published enforcement policy. People Help and Support Package (PHSP), which provides help for all disabled former Remploy workers made redundant as a result of factory closures. Dr McCrea: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what steps the Health and Safety RRS support was made available to all affected Remploy Executive has taken to recommend or mandate the use employees at the earliest opportunity following the of automated traffic management technology to lift announcement of a Remploy factory closure. Working and lay cones on the motorway network in the last with Remploy a range of support was agreed taking 10 years for which information is available. [193977] into account local circumstances and involved partner organisations where appropriate, for example the National Careers Service. Mike Penning: The Health and Safety Executive has not taken any action to mandate or recommend the use Typically, RRS included on-site support and advice of automated traffic management equipment to lift and that helped with: providing information about being lay cones. made redundant, identifying transferable skills, job options and training needs, learning new skills appropriate to The highway maintenance industry has trialled cone the local labour market, job search skills and finding a laying machines and the decision to use such machines new job, overcoming barriers to work and settling into a rests with them on a commercial operational basis. new job. Together, with the PHSP, as at 21 March this support Social Security Benefits has helped 716 former Remploy workers who are now in work. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Remploy: Edinburgh Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the benefit cap. [193667] Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member Esther McVey: We expect a full evaluation of the for Edinburgh West of 10 February 2014, Official Report, policy to be published in autumn 2014. column 515W, on Remploy: Edinburgh, how many Latest figures show that 4,250 households that were former Remploy employees from the Edinburgh site are previously subject to the benefit cap found jobs since working (a) less than 16 hours per week in paid the limit was introduced in April 2013. employment, (b) less than 30 hours per week in paid In total, more than 38,600 households had their employment and (c) in voluntary and unpaid positions. benefits capped by January 2014. [193821]

Mike Penning: Of the 28 workers made redundant as Social Security Benefits: Scotland a result of the closure of Remploy in South Gyle, Edinburgh we are able to provide information on the 24 disabled former employees who have engaged with a Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work personal case worker. and Pensions how many people in Scotland applied for As at 21 March 2014 Jobcentre Plus records show a hardship payment after being subject to benefit that seven people are in paid employment over 16 hours sanctions in each month from March 2013 to March and 17 have accessed Work Choice support. We have no 2014. [193865] records of people working (a) less than 16 hours, (b) less than 30 hours per week paid employment or (c) in Esther McVey: The Department only records total voluntary and unpaid work number of applications made for hardship payments. 729W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 730W

Work Programme Personnel and Veterans Agency (SPVA) which will be re-named Defence Business Services—Veterans UK with Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for effect from 1 April 2014. Work and Pensions how many people returning to Jobcentre Plus after two years on the Work Programme Electronic Warfare are aged under 25 years. [194315] Yvonne Fovargue: To ask the Secretary of State for Esther McVey: Statistics on the number of claimants Defence how many NATO or EU cyber exercises are who have returned to Jobcentre Plus after 104 weeks on planned in 2014; and what the UK’s involvement will the Work programme by age group can be found at: be in each such exercise. [192083] https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/dwp-statistics- tabulation-tool Mr Francois: The Ministry of Defence is not aware of Guidance for users is available at: any EU cyber exercises planned for this year. With https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-tabulation- regards to NATO exercises, I refer the hon. Member to tool-guidance the answer given by the Minister for International Security Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison), on 5 March 2014, Official Report, column 846W, to my right hon. Friend the DEFENCE Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames). There are Aircraft Carrier Alliance seven NATO wide cyber exercises planned for 2014. While the UK is planning to participate in a NATO Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence cyber exercise during November 2014, the exact nature if he will make it his policy to designate the Aircraft of the participation is still being finalised. Carrier Alliance as a public body for the purposes of Military Law the Freedom of Information Act 2000. [194566] Mr Dunne: For the manufacture phase of the Queen Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Elizabeth Class Aircraft carrier project the Aircraft Defence (1) how many people have been convicted of Carrier Alliance (ACA) was formed from BAE Systems an offence contrary to section 42 of the Armed Forces Naval Ships (formerly BAE Systems Surface Ships), Act 2006 which corresponds to an offence contrary to Babcock, Thales UK and the Ministry of Defence any provision specified in the table in paragraph 3 of (MOD). The MOD is fully compliant with the Freedom the Schedule of the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups of Information Act 2000. Private companies do not fall Act 2006 (Prescribed Criteria and Miscellaneous under the remit of the Freedom of Information Act. It Provisions) Regulations 2009 in each of the last four is not appropriate for the Secretary of State for Defence years; [193734] to designate the ACA a public body. (2) how many people have been convicted of an offence contrary to section 42 of the Armed Forces Act Armed Forces: Museums and Galleries 2006 which (a) corresponds to an offence contrary to any provision specified in part 1 of the table in Michael Fabricant: To ask the Secretary of State for paragraph 1 of the Schedule to the Safeguarding Defence pursuant to the answer of 13 March 2014 to Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 (Prescribed Criteria and the hon. Member for Crawley, Official Report, column Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations 2009 and was 219W, on War Memorials: World War II, what the committed in circumstances specified in the entry in the reasons are for the disparities between the income per second column of that part of that table which visitor from grant-in-aid and LIBOR fines allocated to corresponds to the relevant entry in the first column of the (a) Royal Navy Museum, (b) National Army that part of that table or (b) corresponds to an offence Museum, (c) Royal Air Force Museum and (d) contrary to a provision specified in part 2 of that table National Memorial Arboretum; if he will take steps to in each of the last four years. [194029] reduce such disparities in future; and if he will make a statement. [193763] Anna Soubry: The information will take time to collate, Mr Dunne: The service museums and the National I will write to the hon. Member shortly. Memorial Arboretum play an important role in the Trade Unions heritage of the three services and the nation, and it would be inappropriate for visitor numbers to determine the provision of funding. Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence whether his Department is (a) undertaking or Armed Forces: Pensions (b) plans to undertake a review of the check-off union subscription provision. [194036] John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will introduce an online pension calculator for use Mr Dunne: A review is currently under way. by those who have left the armed forces. [193844] Wales Anna Soubry: The Armed Forces Benefits, Pension, Scheme Pays and Redundancy Calculators are available Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence for serving armed forces personnel, but will not provide with which small and medium-sized companies in an accurate forecast for ex-service personnel. They are Wales his Department has contracted in each year since able to request pension forecasts directly from the Service 2010; and if he will make a statement. [193776] 731W Written Answers2 APRIL 2014 Written Answers 732W

Mr Dunne: The Ministry of Defence has contracted as part of my routine engagements with defence suppliers. with over 600 small and medium-sized enterprises in I plan to visit in coming months. Wales since 1 April 2010, spending around £51 million on these contracts. A list of the companies, broken Working Hours down by financial year, has been placed in the Library of the House. Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what proportion of employees in his Department of Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence each (a) Civil Service pay grade and (b) gender work pursuant to his answer of 17 March 2014, Official (i) reduced hours, (ii) flexi-time, (iii) from home, (iv) a Report, column 534, what the date and location is of compressed working week, (v) job share, (vi) term-time his planned small and medium-sized enterprise meeting only and (vii) part-time. [193960] in Wales; and if he will make a statement. [193802] Mr Dunne: This information is not available in the Mr Dunne: I look forward to visiting Wales to meet format requested as flexible working patterns are agreed small and medium-sized enterprises which support defence, at a local level. ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 2 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 865 NORTHERN IRELAND—continued Cost of Living...... 867 Security Situation...... 865 Dealing with the Past ...... 872 First World War (Irish Soldiers)...... 871 PRIME MINISTER ...... 874 Haass Process...... 869 Engagements...... 874 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Wednesday 2 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 81WS JUSTICE...... 85WS Improving Public Services...... 81WS Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority...... 85WS DEFENCE...... 82WS Afghanistan (Roulement)...... 82WS HEALTH...... 84WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 85WS Adult Autism Strategy for England...... 84WS State Pension Top-up ...... 85WS PETITION

Wednesday 2 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH...... 11P Understanding and Funding for People with Eating Disorders...... 11P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 2 April 2014

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 652W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued Fraud ...... 652W Trade Unions ...... 719W Working Hours ...... 653W Working Hours ...... 720W

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 646W DEFENCE...... 729W Competition Commission ...... 646W Aircraft Carrier Alliance...... 729W Employment Schemes ...... 647W Armed Forces: Museums and Galleries...... 729W EU External Trade: South East Asia...... 647W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 729W Higher Education: Cheshire...... 648W Electronic Warfare ...... 730W Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 648W Military Law ...... 730W Office of Fair Trading ...... 649W Trade Unions ...... 730W Science: Higher Education ...... 649W Wales ...... 730W Students: Loans ...... 649W Working Hours ...... 732W Vocational Training...... 650W EDUCATION...... 709W CABINET OFFICE...... 720W GCE A-level: Cheshire...... 709W Airwave Service...... 720W GCSE: Cheshire...... 710W Emergency Services: Telecommunications...... 721W Literacy...... 711W Procurement...... 721W Schools: Musical Instruments ...... 711W Trade Unions ...... 721W Working Hours ...... 721W ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE ...... 680W Electoral Register...... 680W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 716W Voting Behaviour ...... 682W Arts: Finance ...... 716W Betting Shops...... 717W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE...... 707W Boxing: Northern Ireland...... 718W Energy...... 707W Broadband ...... 718W Energy: Competition...... 707W Consumer Rights Bill...... 718W Energy: Prices ...... 708W Public Expenditure...... 719W Fossil Fuels: Safety ...... 709W Col. No. Col. No. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL JUSTICE—continued AFFAIRS...... 683W Fines: Surcharges ...... 696W Environment Protection: British Overseas Judicial Review ...... 697W Territories ...... 683W Magistrates’ Courts: Greater Manchester ...... 698W Floods...... 684W Prison Service ...... 700W Horses: Animal Welfare ...... 684W Prison Service: North East...... 702W Members: Correspondence ...... 684W Security...... 702W Sheep: Theft...... 684W Sentencing...... 703W Working Hours ...... 685W Translation Services ...... 703W Unpaid Fines ...... 704W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 680W Middle East ...... 680W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 645W Trade Unions ...... 680W Economic Development...... 646W Government Spending Allocation...... 645W HEALTH...... 653W IRA Victims: Libyan Government Compensation . 645W Abortion ...... 653W On-the-runs: Letters...... 645W Antibiotics ...... 654W Reduction in Public Sector Employment...... 645W Arthritis: Young People ...... 654W Trade Unions ...... 646W Breast Cancer...... 655W Buildings...... 656W TRANSPORT ...... 679W Cystic Fibrosis ...... 656W Bus Services: Disability ...... 679W Health Education...... 657W Railways: South East ...... 679W Health Professions: Regulation ...... 657W Health Services: Staffordshire ...... 657W TREASURY ...... 666W NHS: Drugs...... 658W Annuities...... 666W NHS: Finance ...... 659W Bank Services...... 667W Organs: Donors ...... 660W Business: Government Assistance ...... 667W Respite Care...... 660W Fixed Interest Securities: Pensioners ...... 668W Self-harm: Young People...... 660W Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing ...... 668W Sepsis ...... 661W Money Advice Service...... 668W Skin Cancer ...... 663W National Savings Bonds: Pensioners ...... 668W Social Services...... 663W Occupational Pensions...... 669W Streptococcus...... 663W Office of Tax Simplification...... 669W Tobacco: Packaging ...... 664W Pensions...... 670W Trade Unions ...... 664W Public Expenditure: Scotland...... 676W Working Hours ...... 664W VAT ...... 677W VAT: Individual Savings Accounts ...... 677W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 711W Airwave Service...... 711W WALES...... 678W Asylum: Syria ...... 712W Trade Unions ...... 678W Borders: Personal Records ...... 712W Working Hours ...... 678W Deportation: Offenders...... 713W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 714W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 651W Human Trafficking: Victim Support Schemes ...... 714W Older Workers...... 651W Illegal Immigrants: Employment...... 715W Working Hours ...... 651W Immigration Controls: Northern Ireland ...... 716W Members: Correspondence ...... 716W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 722W Proceeds of Crime...... 716W Conditions of Employment...... 722W Trade Unions ...... 716W Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing ...... 723W Jobcentre Plus ...... 724W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 665W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Scotland...... 724W Ethiopia ...... 665W Occupational Pensions...... 725W Trade Unions ...... 665W Pensions...... 725W Working Hours ...... 665W Remploy...... 725W Remploy: Edinburgh...... 727W JUSTICE...... 685W Road Traffic Control...... 728W Confiscation Orders ...... 685W Social Security Benefits...... 728W Crown Courts ...... 691W Social Security Benefits: Scotland ...... 728W Fines ...... 694W Work Programme...... 729W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Wednesday 2 April 2014

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 865] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Prime Minister

Scotland (Independence) (Westminster Representation) [Col. 888] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Mr MacNeil)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Opposition Day [Un-allotted Half-day] Energy Price Freeze [Col. 892] Motion—(Caroline Flint)—on a Division, negatived

Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism [Col. 948] Motion—(James Brokenshire)—agreed to

Petition [Col. 962]

LGBT Rights (Uganda) [Col. 963] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Elliott Review and Food Crime [Col. 233WH] Child Care [Col. 256WH] Future of English Heritage [Col. 264WH] Asian Restaurateurs (Immigration Enforcement) [Col. 287WH] Transparency of UK visa bans [Col. 295WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 81WS]

Petition [Col. 11P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 645W] [see index inside back page]