sign in sign up
<<
Home , Alex Chalk, Alister Jack, Amanda Milling, Bob Stewart (politician), Brandon Lewis, Christopher Chope

Monday Volume 691 15 March 2021 No. 190

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Monday 15 March 2021 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2021 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT MEMBERS OF THE CABINET (FORMED BY THE RT HON. , MP, DECEMBER 2019)

PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY,MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE AND MINISTER FOR THE UNION— The Rt Hon. Boris Johnson, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN,COMMONWEALTH AND DEVELOPMENT AFFAIRS AND — The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT—The Rt Hon. , MP CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER AND MINISTER FOR THE —The Rt Hon. , MP AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR JUSTICE—The Rt Hon. , QC, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE—The Rt Hon. , MP COP26 PRESIDENT—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS,ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE, AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Elizabeth Truss, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WORK AND PENSIONS—The Rt Hon. Dr Thérèse Coffey, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EDUCATION—The Rt Hon. CBE, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT,FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HOUSING,COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR TRANSPORT—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR —The Rt Hon. CBE, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR —The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR —The Rt Hon. , MP LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND —The Rt Hon. Baroness Evans of Bowes Park SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DIGITAL,CULTURE,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt Hon. CBE, MP ,CABINET OFFICE—The Rt Hon. Lord Frost CMG MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO—The Rt Hon. , MP DEPARTMENTS OF STATE AND MINISTERS Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Kwasi Kwarteng, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Anne-Marie Trevelyan, MP (Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth) Lord Grimstone of Boscobel, Kt (Minister for Investment) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP § Amanda Solloway, MP , MP Lord Callanan Cabinet Office— PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY,MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE AND MINISTER FOR THE UNION— The Rt Hon. Boris Johnson, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER AND MINISTER FOR THE CABINET OFFICE—The Rt Hon. Michael Gove, MP COP26 PRESIDENT—The Rt Hon. Alok Sharma, MP MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO—The Rt Hon. Amanda Milling, MP —The Rt Hon. , MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Lord Frost CMG , MP (Minister for the Constitution and Devolution) Lord Agnew of Oulton (Minister for Efficiency and Transformation) § Lord True CBE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES— , MP Johnny Mercer, MP (Minister for Defence People and Veterans) § Defence— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Ben Wallace, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— , MP (Minister for Defence Procurement) Baroness Goldie DL ii HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP (Minister for the Armed Forces) Johnny Mercer, MP (Minister for Defence People and Veterans) § Digital, Culture, Media and Sport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Oliver Dowden CBE, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— , MP (Minister for Digital and Culture) The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Media and Data) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Matt Warman, MP , MP § Baroness Barran MBE Education— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Gavin Williamson CBE, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— , MP (Minister for Universities) The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for School Standards) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP , MP Baroness Berridge of the Vale of Catmose § Environment, Food and Rural Affairs— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. George Eustice, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Lord Gardiner of Kimble , MP Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office— SECRETARY OF STATE AND FIRST SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Dominic Raab, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for the Middle East and North Africa) The Rt Hon. Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Minister for the Pacific and the Environment) § , MP (Minister for Asia) Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Minister for South Asia and the Commonwealth) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP , MP Health and Social Care— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Matt Hancock, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Edward Argar, MP (Minister for Health) , MP (Minister for Care) , MP (Minister for Patient Safety, Suicide Prevention and Mental Health) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Lord Bethell of Romford Nadhim Zahawi, MP (Minister for Covid Vaccine Deployment) § — SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Priti Patel, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP () , MP (Minister for Crime and Policing) § Baroness Williams of Trafford Lord Greenhalgh (Minister for Building Safety and Communities) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Kevin Foster, MP , MP § Housing, Communities and Local Government— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Robert Jenrick, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— , MP (Minister for Regional Growth and Local Government) The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Housing) Lord Greenhalgh (Minister for Building Safety and Communities) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Eddie Hughes, MP HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont. iii

International Trade— SECRETARY OF STATE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE, AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES— The Rt Hon. Elizabeth Truss, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Trade Policy) Lord Grimstone of Boscobel, Kt (Minister for Investment) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Graham Stuart, MP , MP , MP (Minister for Equalities) § Baroness Berridge of the Vale of Catmose (Minister for Women) § Justice— LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Robert Buckland, QC, MP MINISTER OF STATE—Kit Malthouse, MP (Minister for Crime and Policing) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP § Chris Philp, MP § Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, QC Law Officers— ATTORNEY GENERAL—The Rt Hon. Michael Ellis, QC, MP SOLICITOR GENERAL—, QC, MP ADVOCATE GENERAL FOR SCOTLAND—Lord Stewart of Dirleton, QC ATTORNEY GENERAL (MINISTER ON LEAVE)—The Rt Hon. , QC, MP Leader of the House of Commons— LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS—The Rt Hon. Jacob Rees-Mogg, MP Leader of the House of Lords— LORD PRIVY SEAL AND LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS—The Rt. Hon. Baroness Evans of Bowes Park DEPUTY LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS—The Rt Hon. Earl Howe CBE — SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Brandon Lewis CBE, MP MINISTER OF STATE—, MP Scotland Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Alister Jack, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Iain Stewart, MP David Duguid, MP § Transport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Grant Shapps, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Chris Heaton-Harris, MP , MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Rachel Maclean, MP Baroness Vere of Norbiton Treasury— PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY,MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE AND MINISTER FOR THE UNION— The Rt Hon. Boris Johnson, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. Rishi Sunak, MP CHIEF SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. , MP FINANCIAL SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. , MP MINISTER OF STATE—Lord Agnew of Oulton DL (Minister for Efficiency and Transformation) § ECONOMIC SECRETARY—, MP EXCHEQUER SECRETARY—Kemi Badenoch, MP § PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. Mark Spencer, MP LORDS COMMISSIONERS— James Morris, MP , MP David Duguid, MP § , MP , MP , MP , MP iv HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

ASSISTANT WHIPS— , MP David T. C. Davies, MP § Alex Chalk, MP § , MP , MP Nigel Huddleston, MP § UK Export Finance— SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE—The Rt Hon. Elizabeth Truss, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Graham Stuart, MP Wales Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Simon Hart, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—David T. C. Davies, MP § Work and Pensions— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Dr Thérèse Coffey, MP MINISTER OF STATE—, MP (Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Guy Opperman, MP , MP Baroness Stedman-Scott OBE, DL Her Majesty’s Household— LORD CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt Hon. Earl Peel GCVO, DL LORD STEWARD—The Earl of Dalhousie MASTER OF THE HORSE—Lord de Mauley TREASURER—The Rt Hon. , MP COMPTROLLER—, MP VICE-CHAMBERLAIN—Marcus Jones, MP CAPTAIN OF THE HONOURABLE CORPS OF GENTLEMEN-AT-ARMS—The Rt Hon. Lord Ashton of Hyde CAPTAIN OF THE QUEEN’S BODYGUARD OF THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD—Earl of Courtown BARONESSES IN WAITING— Baroness Penn Baroness Scott of Bybrook OBE Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist LORDS IN WAITING— Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay Viscount Younger of Leckie

§ Members of the Government listed under more than one Department

SECOND CHURCH ESTATES COMMISSIONER,REPRESENTING THE CHURCH COMMISSIONERS—, MP REPRESENTING THE SPEAKER’S COMMITTEE ON THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION—Christian Matheson, MP REPRESENTING THE SPEAKER’S COMMITTEE FOR PARLIAMENTARY STANDARDS AUTHORITY— Sir Charles Walker, MP REPRESENTING THE HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION—Sir Charles Walker, MP CHAIRMAN OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION—The Rt Hon. Sir , MP HOUSE OF COMMONS

THE SPEAKER—The Rt Hon. Sir , MP

CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—The Rt Hon. Dame , MP FIRST DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—The Rt Hon. Dame , MP SECOND DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Mr , MP

PANEL OF CHAIRS— Rushanara Ali, Sir , , Mr , Mr , Sir Graham Brady, Ms Karen Buck, Sir , Judith Cummins, Geraint Davies, , Peter Dowd, Dame , Clive Efford, Julie Elliott, Yvonne Fovargue, The Rt Hon. Sir , Ms Nusrat Ghani, The Rt Hon. Dame , James Gray, Sir Mark Hendrick, Mr Philip Hollobone, The Rt Hon. Stewart Hosie, The Rt Hon. Sir George Howarth, Dr Rupa Huq, The Rt Hon. Sir Edward Leigh, Steve McCabe, Siobhain McDonagh, The Rt Hon. Esther McVey, The Rt Hon. , The Rt Hon. , Mrs , The Rt Hon. , Ian Paisley, The Rt Hon. Mark Pritchard, Christina Rees, Mr , , Mr Virendra Sharma, Sir , Graham Stringer, Derek Twigg, Sir Charles Walker SECRETARY—Chris Stanton

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION— The Rt Hon. The Speaker (Chairman), Ian Ailles (Director General of the House of Commons), Dr John Benger (Clerk of the House and Head of the House of Commons Service), Jane McCall (External Member), Dr Rima Makarem (External Member), The Rt Hon. Jacob Rees-Mogg, MP (Leader of the House), The Rt Hon. Valerie Vaz, MP, Sir Charles Walker, MP, The Rt Hon. Dame Rosie Winterton, MP, , MP SECRETARY TO THE COMMISSION—Marianne Cwynarski CBE ASSISTANT SECRETARY—Robert Cope

ADMINISTRATION ESTIMATE AUDIT AND RISK ASSURANCE COMMITTEE AND MEMBERS ESTIMATE AUDIT COMMITTEE— Dr Rima Makarem (Chair), , MP, Mr Clive Betts, MP, Frances Done, Jane McCall, Sir Charles Walker, MP SECRETARY TO THE COMMITTEE—Hannah Bryce

COMMONS EXECUTIVE BOARD— Dr John Benger (Clerk of the House and Head of the House of Commons Service) (Chair), Mostaque Ahmed (Finance Director and Managing Director, Finance, Portfolio and Performance), Ian Ailles (Director General of the House of Commons), Isabel Coman (Managing Director, In-House Services & Estates), Marianne Cwynaski CBE (Secretary to the Commission and Managing Director of the Governance Office), Sarah Davies (Clerk Assistant and Managing Director, Chamber and Committees), Mandy Eddolls (Managing Director, HR and Diversity), Alison Giles (Director of Security for Parliament), Tracey Jessup (UK Parliament Chief Digital and Information Officer), Colin Lee (Managing Director, Select Committee Team), Saira Salimi (Speaker’s Counsel), Dr Edge Watchorn (Managing Director, Participation), Penny Young (Librarian and Managing Director, Research and Information) SECRETARY TO THE BOARD—Katharine Williams

SPEAKER’S SECRETARY—Helen Wood SPEAKER’S COUNSEL—Saira Salimi SPEAKER’S CHAPLAIN—The Rev. Canon Patricia Hillas PARLIAMENTARY COMMISSIONER FOR STANDARDS—Kathryn Stone

Monday 15 March 2021

1 15 MARCH 2021 2 THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OFFICIAL REPORT

IN THE FIRST SESSION OF THE FIFTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT OF THE OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND [WHICH OPENED 17 DECEMBER 2019]

SEVENTIETH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II

SIXTH SERIES VOLUME 691 TWENTY-THIRD VOLUME OF SESSION 2019-2021

ongoing military requirement for the homes, which we House of Commons therefore intend to hand back to Annington, thereby helping to meet obligations under our agreements. I Monday 15 March 2021 regret that, despite the MOD’s producing a significant package of support that we hoped might assist Annington The House met at half-past Two o’clock to allow our tenants to remain in situ in many, although not all, cases, that was not a course that Annington felt PRAYERS able to pursue.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair] [V]: I join the Minister and, I am sure, Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Orders, the whole House in expressing sympathy for the family 4 June and 30 December 2020). and friends of Sergeant Hillier. [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] A number of my constituents in Biggin Hill are keen to remain in their homes; is there no way that Annington Homes can facilitate that? If not, given that we are still Oral Answers to Questions battling the covid pandemic, is there any way in which the Minister can provide for a longer notice period to help to provide my constituents with greater certainty at DEFENCE this very difficult time?

The Secretary of State was asked— Jeremy Quin: I am pleased to say that I have some good news for my hon. Friend and his constituents. I Military Housing: Annington Homes am pleased to confirm that, mindful of the representations made by my right hon. and hon. Friends, of the fact GarethBacon(Orpington)(Con):Whatrecentdiscussions that we are talking about packages of houses rather his Department has had with representatives of Annington than single units and of the ongoing covid restrictions, Homes on the sale of military housing. [913319] we will be extending the notice period to 31 March 2022. The Minister for Defence Procurement (Jeremy Quin): That will mean that civilian tenants will have received Before I turn to Question 1, on behalf of the Government more than 18 months’ notice in total. Furthermore, I wish to pay tribute to Sergeant Gavin Hillier of the Annington has confirmed that it has no in-principle Welsh Guards, who tragically died in an accident during objection to selling the properties to local authorities or live-firing exercises in Wales earlier this month. Sergeant other social housing providers. I stress that any such Hillier’s distinguished service throughout his career was deals would be a commercial proposition between the a tribute not only to his own dedication to duty but to social housing providers and Annington, but I hope his family and to his regiment, who continue to that the additional time provided may help to enable for operations in Iraq later this year. such transactions to be progressed. I shall write to my hon. Friend and other affected MPs on this subject I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Orpington . (Gareth Bacon) for his close interest in this issue, which is also actively pursued by my right hon. Friend the Member Defence Estate Optimisation Programme for Preseli Pembrokeshire (), my hon. Friends the Members for North West Christian Matheson (City of ) (Lab): What (Mr Vara) and for (), and other plans he has to review the defence estate optimisation colleagues. The Ministry of Defence longer has any programme. [913320] 3 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 4

The Minister for Defence Procurement (Jeremy Quin): ( North East) (Con): What steps The defence estate optimisation portfolio is a 25-year his Department is taking to reduce the risks posed by multibillion-pound investment in modernising MOD technological advances in cyber warfare to the UK’s basing. It provides resilience and ensures that our service critical national infrastructure. [913327] personnel can train in centres of excellence alongside those beside whom they will fight. We routinely review Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con): What steps his and assess the programme in the light of evolving Department is taking to reduce the risks posed by requirements, including the contents of the integrated technological advances in cyber warfare to the UK’s review.However,the fundamental drivers of the programme critical national infrastructure. [913328] are unlikely to change. The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): The threat of cyber-attack on UK interests is real. Christian Matheson [V]: The decision to site the entire Every day,we witness malicious interference from adversary Army presence in the north-west at Weeton barracks, states and hostile actors. We are continually protecting putting all our eggs in one basket, will damage the our systems and have previously called out activity operational and recruitment footprint of the Army in from Russia, and Iran. Our defensive cyber the north-west. Were the Government to retain the Dale programmes are delivering on an extensive suite of barracks in Chester, that would provide easy access to capabilities, but cyber defence is only part of our approach. the southern part of the north-west, the north part of A core element of broader deterrence is integrating our the midlands and north Wales, so will the Government offensive cyber-capabilities into our military operations. please look again at the decision to sell off the Dale barracks and let them retain their historic role in the : I thank my right hon. Friend City of Chester? for his answer. I particularly welcome the fact that the National Cyber Force will be based in the north-west of Jeremy Quin: The hon. Gentleman has in the past . In saying that, may I urge the Secretary of spoken with passion about the retention of Dale barracks, State to look sympathetically at hosting it in ? and he does so again. We continue to speak to local Wealready have a really strong track record of supporting stakeholders about alternative uses for the site, but I our armed forces, from the thousands of men and assure the hon. Gentleman that no disposal will take women who sign up from our county to manufacture place before 2027 at the earliest. I also assure him that the Typhoon and, hopefully, the Tempest in the future. the armed forces will continue to be able to provide support to the north-west and, indeed, the whole of the Mr Wallace: I certainly hear what my hon. Friend United Kingdom. says. As another Lancashire MP, I am conscious of the good news which the Prime Minister announced that Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab) the force will be based in the north of England. Obviously, [V]: What steps has the Ministry of Defence taken to we will go through the processes of selecting where it is ensure the sound financial sustainability of the defence to be based. I think of the lessons that we learned when estate, given that the National Audit Office found in Bletchley Park and its successors moved to , 2016 that the estate would have an £8.5 billion funding as opposed to a big city. The impact that that had in shortfall over the next 30 years? A series of National levelling up the area is something on which we should Audit Office reports have shown that the defence estate all reflect. It is incredibly important that, in our whole faces a serious shortfall in investment. It is clear that levelling-up agenda, we focus not just on cities but on there is a direct link between poor infrastructure and towns as well. increasing risk to military effectiveness. What steps has the Minister taken to reverse this decline? Mr Speaker: Perhaps we could bring all Lancashire MPs together. Jeremy Quin: I am pleased to reassure the hon. Gentleman that £18 million a year is spent on single-living Mark Logan [V]: Our Prime Minister and Secretary accommodation. Additional funding has been provided of State are backing the north by developing the National through the £200 million package announced in July Cyber Force here.Some say that it should be in Manchester, last year, and the frontline commands intend to invest but others say Lancashire. Surely Bolton is the place for £1.5 billion in new build and upgrade programmes to it, with a foot in , but our heart accommodation over the next 12 years. It is an issue firmly in Lancashire. that we are alive to and on which we focus. It is not Mr Wallace: It is tempting to ask for Bolton as well as within the top 12 reasons why people leave the Army, as Warrington to be returned to Lancashire following the stated in the surveys, but it is incredibly important. We reforms of the early 1970s. I must declare that I was wish to look after the welfare of all the people who once a secretary for the Friends of Real Lancashire. I serve defence. I do not wish to say anything further think, Mr Speaker, you were probably a co-secretary with about future funding, because that will be covered in me at one stage. I hear my hon. Friend loud and clear. announcements in due course, but we take the issue The strengths of these mill towns is clear. Whether it be very seriously. Bolton, Wigan, Warrington, Preston, in my constituency, or Chorley, their contribution to Britain’s industrial Cyber Warfare base and the next generation, which is obviously cyber, should not be undervalued. I will certainly listen to all Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con): What steps the arguments put forward. The National Cyber Force his Department is taking to reduce the risks posed by is a mix of GCHQ and the Ministry of Defence. We have technological advances in cyber warfare to the UK’s a proud record of supporting the MOD and defence in critical national infrastructure. [913321] the north, and I look forward to that continuing. 5 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 6

Ruth Edwards: I welcome the weekend’s announcement Mr Wallace: My right hon. Friend makes a valid that a full-spectrum approach will be taken to the UK’s point; we absolutely recognise that. The important thing cyber-capability. Can my right hon. Friend confirm that about the Command Paper and the integrated review is the integrated review will include a strategy for working learning the lessons of today. The lesson that we learned with industry, great and small, so that robust cyber from Syria was that when we tackle Daesh, we tackle its defence can be maintained across our entire economy? cyber-offence and cyber-campaign in tandem with the military campaign that we used to take apart its leadership Mr Wallace: After the Defence Command Paper is and the evil tasks that it was setting out to cause attacks. announced on Monday,a week today,the defence industrial It is absolutely the case that there cannot be one without strategy will be launched the following day, which will the other, but we should also recognise that the growing give us an opportunity to indicate investments not only vulnerability of our forces and civil society to cyber as we in our more traditional industrial base, but in the new become more dependent on cyber means that we have and future domains, such as digital, cyber, space and so to take a very strong lead in defending against that. on. This is incredibly important. Britain is one of the world leaders in both applying our cyber-technology Veterans Overseas and investing in it, and I predict that the strategy will have something to say about that. (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): What steps his Department is taking to support the welfare of (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): May I, UK veterans overseas. [913322] on behalf of the official Opposition, offer my tribute to the service of Sergeant Gavin Hillier and say to his The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny family, his friends and his comrades that our condolences Mercer): Veterans can access the same services provided are with them? by the Ministry of Defence, no matter where in the I certainly welcomed the weekend news that the integrated world they live. review will commit the UK to full-spectrum cyber, as Andrew Gwynne [V]: I thank the Minister for that the hon. Member for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards) has answer, because the covenant rightly offers to veterans just said, although I strongly feel that announcements provisions in areas such as education and family wellbeing, of important Government policy such as that should be having a home, starting a new career, access to healthcare, made in Parliament and not in the press. Is not the financial assistance and discounted services. What I wider security lesson from cyber and other grey-zone would like to know, however, is what the Ministry is threats that more civil and military planning, training doing to ensure that the undertakings that we give as a and exercising is required? Given that some countries nation are actually delivered for veterans who now live are well ahead of us, will the integrated review catch up overseas. Is there a specific budget for this vital work to with the need for full-spectrum society resilience? ensure that those veterans are accessing the services that Mr Wallace: I hear what the right hon. Gentleman says, they qualify for? but I would take issue with it on one thing, and that is Johnny Mercer: There is not a carve-out in the budget about us catching up. I was the cyber-security Minister—I for veterans who live overseas, but we are committed to was the Minister of State for Security—for a considerable ensuring that the armed forces covenant works equally period of time. Britain actually led the world both in for them as it does in this country. We are introducing NATO, where we were the first to offer cyber-offensive the Armed Forces Bill in the coming months to legislate capability,but also through our programmes. The national for the first time to ensure that discharge of duties cyber-security programme spent billions on enhancing cannot result in disadvantage from local authorities in capability right across not just military,but predominantly health, housing and education. I look forward to the the civil sector. The National Cyber Security Centre is a hon. Member supporting the Bill. first; there are almost none in Europe. We are one of the first to have such a centre to be able Armed Forces Personnel to advise business, private individuals and the Government how to keep themselves strong and secure. There is always Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): What more to do and there are lessons to be learned around recent assessment he has made of the level of satisfaction the world, but Britain has a lot of innovation and strengths among armed forces personnel with military (a) housing in cyber-security. It is a dangerous world out there in and (b) salaries. [913323] cyber. I certainly agree with the right hon. Gentleman that one of the ways to deliver this is to ensure that we The Minister for Defence People and Veterans constantly work with our friends and allies. (Johnny Mercer): Defence regularly monitors several metrics to gauge service personnel satisfaction levels, Mr Speaker: Let us go to another expert—Dr Julian including for accommodation and pay, via the armed Lewis. forces continuous attitude survey. Dr (New Forest East) (Con): Does my Alan Brown [V]: The Army has been instrumental in right hon. Friend accept that while the cyber-threat the fight against covid, from assisting with logistics to to critical national infrastructure can paralyse a society being directly involved in testing the vaccination that is then subject to attack by more conventional means, programmes; yet the reward for army personnel is a pay we also have to maintain the methods and equipment to freeze at a time when low pay is one of the factors that counter-attack anything involving conventional military causes people to leave the armed forces, as Government force? Is he satisfied that the integrated review, while studies should show. I ask the Minister, why was Dominic recognising the role of cyber,also recognises the continuing Cummings awarded a huge pay rise, yet armed forces role of conventional defence? personnel are not deemed worthy of one? 7 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 8

Mr Speaker: Minister, I do not think you are going to The Minister for Defence People and Veterans respond to that point. (Johnny Mercer): The Office for Veterans’Affairs champions our veterans’ mental health and wellbeing needs at the Johnny Mercer: No; I do not have responsibility for heart of Government. This month, NHS England launched the Prime Minister’s advisers, clearly. On satisfaction Operation Courage, bringing together three NHS England around pay, I am clear that pay is one of the reasons veterans’ mental health services with a single point of that people stay in the military. If the hon. Member access. Op Courage is truly a game changer for veterans looks forward to the integrated review, we will be looking in the UK, including in the north-east. to announce a direction of travel on this matter in due course. Rosie Cooper [V]: The Royal British Legion has said that the current extortionate charges to Commonwealth Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP): veterans to settle in the UK are unfair and should end. On behalf of the , I send our We completely agree, so what is the Minister doing to condolences to Sergeant Hillier’s family. end this unjust treatment of those who have risked their The issue of pay rises and satisfaction more generally lives for our country? has been a bone of contention in the House for many years. The numbers speak for themselves; four in 10 serving Johnny Mercer: Let me be absolutely clear: that is a personnel do not think that the pay they receive reflects policy that started under the previous Government. the work they do. Why? This is the first Government who have promised a pathway to residency for those who serve. We will deliver that. Johnny Mercer: The crushing irony of our people We are looking to consult in the coming months. This who work in Scotland having to pay more in tax and has been a long-term injustice for our foreign and therefore take home less pay and the hon. Gentleman Commonwealth service personnel and under this raising this point is not lost on those who serve. Pay is a Government we are going to correct it. one of a number of factors that people speak about when the armed forces continuous attitude survey comes Kerry McCarthy [V]: There seem to be some really through. It is by no means the primary factor. We are good schemes that have been awarded funding under constantly reviewing it and I am comfortable that we the Positive Pathways programme, but what is the Minister offer a world-class package to our people. doing to ensure that veterans know about these schemes, and how can we be sure that they are not just a short-term Stewart Malcolm McDonald: Yet again, the Minister engagement with veterans but really offer the seamless is rather poorly briefed. The lowest-paid members of route of care and support that is talked about in the the armed forces in Scotland actually pay less in tax. If documentation? he wants to talk exemptions, that is a power that lies in the Treasury; it is not a tax power that lies with the . But let me press him on this: Johnny Mercer: One of my biggest challenges in this when the integrated review is published tomorrow, will role is not the fact that there are not pathways of care; it it contain something—anything at all—to reverse the is getting people to understand that and to really be able trend on satisfaction, and will he apologise to the armed to access fantastic, world-class healthcare and career forces, who have had a kick in the teeth with their pay advice and transition for a seamless progress from the rise being paused, given everything they have done for military into civilian life. It is an ongoing effort and I everyone over the covid crisis? welcome the hon. Lady’s efforts to help me with that.

Johnny Mercer: Let me be clear: this will be the first Gill Furniss: The extra £10 million allocated in the strategic review to have a specific address to our people. Budget to supporting veterans’mental health is a welcome They are our finest asset. They are rewarded not only step that the Opposition have been calling for. However, financially but through the choice of career on offer to there is still a large disparity between physical and them. I encourage the hon. Gentleman to read that mental health support, and this extra money works out when it comes out and I am more than happy to have a just at an extra £4 per veteran. Covid-19 has impacted conversation with him after that. heavily on veterans’ charities’ ability to raise funds and conduct their vital work. Will the Minister therefore Support for Veterans commit to protecting our protectors and ensure that the funding is there for veterans to get the support that they Rosie Cooper () (Lab): What recent need? discussions he has had with representatives of military charities on improving support for veterans throughout Johnny Mercer: The £10 million announced by the the UK. [913324] Chancellor in the Budget was another important commitment, but we have also seen a greater commitment Kerry McCarthy ( East) (Lab): What recent in the past few weeks with the launch of Operation discussions he has had with representatives of military Courage. It is the first integrated, single front-door charities on improving support for veterans throughout approach to mental healthcare in our NHS for our the UK. [913329] veterans. It truly is a game-changer, and I urge veterans up and down the country to make sure that they are Gill Furniss (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) fully aware of what it offers. I will be going from this (Lab): What recent discussions he has had with place to ensure that every GP practice and every NHS representatives of military charities on improving support trust in the UK is part of that programme to ensure we for veterans throughout the UK. [913330] do our duty by those who serve. 9 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 10

Stephen Morgan (Portsmouth South) (Lab): Five years James Heappey: I certainly join my hon. Friend, as I ago, the Government announced that veterans could hope will the rest of the House, in thanking defence access the state-of-the-art £300 million Defence Medical personnel for supporting the NHS across over Rehabilitation Centre, but it has seen just 22 people in the past year. Those thanks should also recognise the the past three years. What steps will the Minister be NHS and frontline workers whom it has been our great taking to widen veteran access to these facilities and privilege to work alongside at the strategic level here in make a meaningful difference to the day-to-day lives of , all the way down to those in wards and in the those who have sustained serious injuries during their back of ambulances across the country throughout the service? pandemic. Besides MACA—military aid to the civil authorities— Johnny Mercer: I have commissioned a review into support for specific tasks, Defence has an enduring veterans’access to the Defence and National Rehabilitation presence within the NHS for training and personnel Centre. It is an important project. To be clear, in its placements. Work is being done to expand that for original specification, it was a national rehab centre, but future opportunities, given the experience of our people I recognise that there are opportunities for veterans to working alongside the brilliant NHS clinicians throughout access world-class healthcare there. I have asked the the pandemic. veterans community and others to go away, do a piece of work and understand the ask. We will then address that with the DNRC, and I hope we can find a path [V]: Will the Minister join me in thanking through the middle to ensure we are looking after those the military personnel who set up the asymptomatic who have served. testing sites in Sevenoaks and Swanley? The 35 Engineer Regiment managed the whole process swiftly and efficiently, and has made it as pleasant as possible to visit. They Covid-19: NHS Support deserve to be recognised.

Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con): James Heappey: I absolutely join my hon. Friend in What support his Department has provided to the NHS praising the fabulous work of the 35 Engineer Regiment during the covid-19 outbreak. [913325] and the resilience unit, which supported Kent County Council to deliver its community testing programme Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con): What support his and to establish the Sevenoaks asymptomatic testing Department has provided to the NHS during the covid-19 site. Armed forces personnel have been working tirelessly outbreak. [913326] across the United Kingdom to help tackle this pandemic, and I know she is not alone in wanting to pass her Dr (Penrith and The Border) (Con): thanks on to all those who have done such amazing What support his Department has provided to the NHS work. during the covid-19 outbreak. [913331] Dr Hudson [V]: In times of crisis, such as foot and (Morley and Outwood) (Con): What mouth disease 20 years ago, flooding catastrophes and support his Department has provided to the NHS during now the coronavirus pandemic, the armed forces have the covid-19 outbreak. [913337] been deployed effectively to keep us safe by working closely with the emergency services, the NHS and local (Winchester) (Con): What support his authorities. Will my hon. Friend join me in paying Department has provided to the NHS during the covid-19 tribute to the thousands of UK armed forces personnel outbreak. [913350] who, aside from keeping us safe, are ready to be deployed in national times of crisis and have bolstered the vaccine The Minister for the Armed Forces (James Heappey): effort, supported hospitals, assisted with covid testing The work of our armed forces in supporting the covid and much more? response is popular around the country and popular in Parliament, too. Defence has supported the NHS through the construction of Nightingale hospitals,PPE distribution, James Heappey: I thank my hon. Friend for his planning and logistical support, scientific advice, testing comments, and I wholeheartedly join him in recognising and vaccine delivery. Currently, the Ministry of Defence the consistency and excellence of the support that the is providing 199 medical personnel to regional NHS armed forces have provided to the United Kingdom trusts, and 321 general duties personnel are providing a both in the past and throughout the covid-19 pandemic. range of support tasks, including support to the ambulance It is worth mentioning that, throughout times like this, services. Some 1,600 defence medical professionals are they are not just working on homeland resilience but also embedded in the national health service. continue with the many jobs they have to do overseas to keep countries safe. It is an extraordinary effort, and it [V]: I would like to pay tribute to the is right that they should be recognised in this way in the armed forces personnel in Carshalton and Wallington House. for all they have done to help tackle coronavirus. Will my hon. Friend join me in thanking the hundreds of Steve Brine: Will the Minister join me in thanking the defence personnel across London who have been seconded 35 military personnel who continue to support the to hospitals throughout the duration of the pandemic, frontline team at South Central ambulance service, fulfilling medical and general roles? Will he also outline which serves my constituents? Will he confirm that the the plans the MOD has for continuing that offer of MOD will continue to be there by their side as we move support in the coming months? towards the end of all national restrictions on 21 June? 11 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 12

James Heappey: I, of course, join my hon. Friend in Army Personnel thanking and acknowledging the fine work of the armed forces personnel supporting the South Central ambulance Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) service, as well as those who have been supporting (SNP): What recent estimate he has made of the number ambulance services in the north-west, London and Wales. of personnel serving in the Army. [913333] Supporting the covid-19 pandemic response remains Defence’s main priority, and I can confirm that Defence The Minister for the Armed Forces (James Heappey): will continue to provide support while our assistance is The number of personnel currently serving in the Army requested and the requirement endures. as full-time trade trained strength is 76,350. That is supported by 26,920 Army reserves. Andrea Jenkyns [V]: Last summer, I met members of our armed forces in my constituency of Morley and Steven Bonnar [V]: I thank the Minister for that Outwood who were undertaking tests for people who answer. For years, the Ministry of Defence has staggered may have covid. These brave men and women are British from one recruitment crisis to another as it has struggled heroes, and throughout the pandemic, they have done and failed to meet its personnel targets, including the everything possible to keep the people of our great broken promise of 12,500 personnel to be based in nation safe. Will the Minister detail the steps that are Scotland by 2020. The Government are now set to cut a being taken to strengthen support services for our armed further 10,000 soldiers. Can the Minister confirm whether forces and their families so that we can show them the any regiments are due to be disbanded completely and same support that they have shown us? whether these further cuts will pertain to Scotland, which was promised thousands more personnel, not James Heappey: My hon. Friend is right to notice just thousands less? how extraordinary the work of our armed forces has been. They have accepted great risk during the pandemic James Heappey: The hon. Gentleman tempts me to in doing the things we have asked them to do, which will pre-empt the announcement next week. He will have have been of some concern for their families. While they heard my colleagues say already that these are things he have often been deployed at short notice, we have tried just has to wait seven days more to understand. to make sure that the welfare provisions for them are as good as they can be. We also recognise the demands of Mental Health Support for Veterans service life and the impact that they can have on the lives and careers of family members. My hon. Friend Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew What steps he is taking to improve mental health support Selous) has done excellent work on the armed forces for veterans in the (a) north-east and (b) UK. [913334] families’ strategy and action plan, and we are looking to develop those ideas fully over the next few months. The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer): The Office for Veterans’Affairs champions Covid-19: Vaccine Roll-out our veterans’ mental health and wellbeing needs at the heart of Government. This month, we launched Op Geraint Davies ( West) (Lab/Co-op): What Courage, bringing together three NHS England veterans’ recent steps he has taken to help ensure that military mental health services with a single point of access, personnel are available to assist with the covid-19 vaccine something we promised to do when we were established roll-out. [913332] 18 months ago.

The Minister for the Armed Forces (James Heappey): Chi Onwurah [V]: But waiting times for face-to-face Wehave established a support package of 14,400 personnel appointments under the veterans’ transition, intervention who are on stand-by to support covid-19 and winter and liaison mental health service was 37 days in 2020 resilience tasks. Those personnel have a range of diverse against the Government’s own target of 14. North-east capabilities, including planning, logistical and medical. charities, such as Forward Assist and Anxious Minds in Approximately 700 personnel are currently deployed in Newcastle, do fantastic work to support veterans in support of the covid-19 vaccine roll-out. civilian life, but they have been overwhelmed with demand. Does the Minister agree that care for the mental wellbeing of our armed forces veterans must begin before they Geraint Davies [V]: I would like to give my massive leave the armed forces, and what is he doing to ensure thanks to all the military and defence personnel who that they are better supported in that transition to have done such a fantastic job in establishing our field civilian life? hospitals and in the vaccination programme; they certainly deserve a pay rise. Of the 250 teams of vaccinators Johnny Mercer: I do not recognise the waiting times promised in December,how many have now been deployed, the hon. Member relays to me, but I am happy to write and how many in Wales? to her about what I understand them to be. Let me be really clear that with the funding that has gone into James Heappey: Forty two of the 252 available veterans’ mental health—£16 million written into the vaccination teams are now deployed as part of the long-term plan for the NHS, rising to £20 million by vaccine quick response force. In Wales, 34 medical 2022-23—I am absolutely determined that world-class personnel are directly supporting the administering of veterans’ mental health care will be available in this vaccines, with approximately 150 personnel helping to country. Op Courage, which we launched last week, is co-ordinate and operate vaccine centres. the start of that, and we will continue with that progress. 13 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 14

Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland Commissioner. In addition, we have commissioned an West) (Lab) [V]: Last week, we saw Meghan Markle independent review of policing and prosecutorial processes speaking out about how her pleas for support for her for dealing with serious criminal offending overseas. mental health crisis were dismissed. While obviously the military is a very different institution, military charities Miss Dines: As my hon. Friend knows, there are continue to see an increase in demand for mental health many service personnel and veterans in Derbyshire support, although people do still struggle to speak out. Dales, and they expect to see real justice in the service What steps is the Minister taking to help reduce the justice system. Can my hon. Friend say what else, other stigma around mental health in the military and veteran than what is in the Armed Forces Bill, is going to be community? brought forward to protect justice in the system?

Johnny Mercer: I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Johnny Mercer: There is a suite of measures in the all the championing she does in this area. Mental health Armed Forces Bill. The most significant thing we are has come on in leaps and bounds, particularly in the last introducing is a serious crime unit, which will ensure five to 10 years. Actually, this year we are introducing that our investigators are skilled, capable, and have all mandatory mental health and fitness training for our the tools they need to conduct investigations of a standard armed forces personnel, which they will undergo every that will withstand ECHR compliance tests and such year. We are fundamentally changing our approach to things. Wetotally understand the need to address not only mental health, fundamentally making it easier for people that issue but the legal side of this matter through the to come forward. It does take courage, but I encourage Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) all those who have mental health concerns to speak up. Bill. We are determined for uniform to be no hiding place There is help available, and they can get better. for those who commit offences, and as we go forward, we will improve the standard of those investigations. Submarine Dismantling Programme These provisions will be a serious step towards doing that. Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife) (SNP): What recent discussions he has had with representatives Service Medal Awards of the (a) Submarine Delivery Agency and (b) Office for Nuclear Regulation on the progress of the submarine Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) dismantling programme. [R] [913335] (Lab): On what basis the Advisory Military Sub-Committee The Minister for Defence Procurement (Jeremy Quin): decided not to recommend service medal awards to Ministers have regular discussions with the Submarine British nuclear test veterans. [913338] Delivery Agency on the progress of the submarine dismantling project and the MOD holds regular discussions The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny with the Office for Nuclear Regulation, which is satisfied Mercer): The review by the independent Advisory Military with the safety performance at Rosyth dockyard. Sub-Committee into medallic recognition for those who participated in the UK’snuclear test programme concluded Douglas Chapman [V]: I thank the Minister for his that it did not meet the level of risk and rigour required response. Any delay in the submarine dismantling for the reward of a campaigning medal or class. That programme is of grave concern to my Dunfermline and independent process operates to strict criteria, and the West Fife constituency, where we accommodate many outcome in no way diminishes the contribution of veterans. of these redundant submarines. Can the Minister confirm The Government remain grateful to all who participated. whether the Government’s commitment to endorse the recommendations of the Public Accounts Committee Catherine McKinnell: Our nuclear test veterans were in 2019 still holds, or will his Department continue to sent to the south Pacific in the 1950s at great risk to move the goalposts to guarantee that the removal of themselves. They have heard decades of warm rhetoric these boats will remain a taxpayers’ nightmare forever? about their crucial role in the country’s defence during the cold war and beyond, but they lack formal recognition. Jeremy Quin: I believe I am right in saying that we Recently, a constituent wrote to me: have now adopted all the recommendations of the PAC “My dad was a veteran who was present at two of the grapple report, and we remain committed to continuing to tests on Christmas Island in the 1950s. Sadly, my dad is no longer decommission these boats in a safe and swift way. There with us and never got round to seeing the Government award a were, and I have written to the hon. Gentleman, some medal or compensation to the veterans.” small delays due to covid, but they were minimal, and Does the Minister share my concern that no more we are continuing with the programme and are committed nuclear test veterans such as my constituent’s father to continuing to do so. should pass away with their contribution left unrecognised?

Service Justice System Johnny Mercer: Their contributions are not unrecognised. We work hard to ensure a programme of support for Miss (Derbyshire Dales) (Con): What those who have become ill as a result of their exposure steps his Department is taking to help improve the to nuclear tests. This is a consistent process that we are service justice system. [R] [913336] always refining, and the review I undertook eight months ago tightened up that support. The medallic system is The Minister for Defence People and Veterans outwith the control of Ministers and always has been. It (Johnny Mercer): The Armed Forces Bill includes measures is rightly in that position, but I am determined to to reform the service justice system. This includes the continue to do all I can to support this cohort of creation of an independent Service Police Complaints nuclear test veterans. 15 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 16

Review of Security, Defence, Development what the hon. Gentleman is saying. I am keen that and Foreign Policy whatever we do is fair for all veterans, whether Gurkhas, or serving UK national or Commonwealth personnel. James Daly (Bury North) (Con): What steps his We must ensure equity, but at the same time I understand Department is taking to help ensure that armed forces the strength of feeling in the House. Those who contribute personnel are at the heart of the Integrated Review of should be recognised. Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy. [913344] Military Aid to Civilian Authorities

The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): Our people are our finest asset, and the Government What recent assessment he has made of the effect of the will continue to invest in our extraordinary armed forces covid-19 outbreak on the armed forces’ capacity to personnel. We are committed to ensuring that the UK deliver military aid to civilian authorities operations. continues to have the world-class armed forces it deserves. [913346] I will publish further details of my plans on 22 March. The Minister for the Armed Forces (James Heappey): James Daly: Will my right hon. Friend outline what Defence remains able to assist other Departments where consultation has been undertaken with our military appropriate and, through prudent planning, has continued personnel ahead of the policy changes that will be to provide support when required throughout the pandemic. announced as part of the integrated review and defence Mitigation measures such as testing of key personnel Command Paper? and adaptation of working practices have ensured that Defence has maintained both its UK operational and Mr Wallace: From the very beginning of the integrated contingent readiness, as well as being able to generate review and defence reform process, we have engaged the forces we require for our commitments overseas. with the chiefs and many members of the armed forces across all services. We have been informed throughout Stuart Anderson: As a proud veteran, I am delighted that process by defence intelligence and other intelligence to see what our great armed forces have done throughout products, to ensure that our plans match the threat that this pandemic. They continue to go over and above. we face, as well as the capabilities that we should give to Will my hon. Friend go over and above in honouring the men and women of our armed forces. our armed forces by seeing that they have everything they need in the integrated review to stand proud on the Commonwealth Veterans world stage?

Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab): What recent James Heappey: I look forward to the announcement discussions he has had with the on the later in the week and next Monday, but I have a strong immigration status of Commonwealth-born veterans. suspicion that it will be jam-packed full of opportunities [913345] for our men and women to serve at home and around the world in really fulfilling roles that keep our country The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): safer for the future. We greatly value everyone who serves in our armed forces, wherever they come from, for their contribution Topical Questions to the security of our nation. Non-UK personnel can settle in the United Kingdom after four years’ service, [913379] Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) and I am pleased to confirm that we are extending the (Lab): If he will make a statement on his departmental time before discharge so that applicants can be submitted responsibilities. from 10 to 18 weeks before they leave. In addition, an imminent consultation is due, and I urge Members to The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): contribute to that and to try to solve the current ongoing Included in my responsibilities is the duty to uphold the issues regarding Commonwealth veterans. duty of care to our workforce. We were all appalled by the reporting we saw of the incident involving members Dan Jarvis: Pay up or pack up: that is the shameful of the RAF Regiment at the weekend. The RAF police choice presented to our Commonwealth servicemen are investigating the incident and the victims have been and women. I am aware of the strength of feeling that offered our full support. The Chief of the Air Staff and the Secretary of State has on this issue. Will he confirm I had a discussion about the incident over the weekend when we will see the public consultation? Will the and he has, with my support, acted quickly. He has reforms promised apply to veterans and families, as well removed officers from the immediate chain of command as to serving personnel? without prejudice pending the findings of the police investigation, and the unit involved, the Support Weapons Mr Wallace: First, may I place on record my apology Flight, will be disbanded with immediate effect. Bullying, to the hon. Gentleman for the delay in responding to his harassment and discrimination has no place in our correspondence? That should not have happened and I armed forces. I will not tolerate it and nor will the Chief apologise for it. The consultation is imminent, and we of the Air Staff. will schedule it in as soon as possible. Once it has been published, I will be happy to sit down with as many Debbie Abrahams [V]: What proportion of servicemen Members as possible to discuss their views on what we and women are currently deployed in UN peacekeeping, are proposing and on whether the measures should go what was it last year and how is it set to change over the further. We can take it from that point. I understand next three years? 17 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 18

Mr Wallace: I can write to the hon. Lady with the seize and hold vital ground from the enemy. They do exact proportions. All I can say is that there has been a not keep the peace or rebuild broken societies, and they significant increase recently, with the deployment to do not give covid jabs. Size matters and no Government Mali of our forces to assist in the can secure the nations with under-strength armed forces. mission there. We also have a number of forces deployed Is it not the truth that over the past decade we have seen in Somalia, assisting that fragile state in trying to come our armed forces run down—numbers down, pay down, to terms with the consequences of the civil war. The morale down—and that all the indication from stories Government are determined to continue to contribute ahead of tomorrow’s integrated review is that Ministers to UN missions wherever we can, lending military are set to make the same mistakes as in the last reviews, support—not necessarily operational support, but in with our servicemen and women paying the price for the logistics, the enabling and humanitarian aid. cuts and bad defence budgeting? Mr (Bournemouth East) (Con): Russia Mr Wallace: The right hon. Gentleman seems to is rearming, Daesh is regrouping and China is nudging forget that for the past three or four decades we have had us out of military and trade partnerships across Africa, that characteristic, where Government after Government yet we are about to witness a shocking reduction in our have been over-ambitious and underfunded the defence conventional hard power and full-spectrum capabilities. policy. His Government did it. The Governments before That is overshadowed by the fanfare of announcements mine have done the same things. I only have to point promoting a tilt towards niche capabilities, including him, as I do during at every defence questions, to the electronic warfare and autonomous platforms. Yes, we National Audit Office report into the processes of his must adapt to new threats, but that does not mean that Government in 2010 and our previous Governments to the old threats have disappeared. Severe cuts to our show that the biggest problem is that we have been infantry regiments, main battle tanks, armoured fighting promising soldiers, men and women of the armed forces vehicles and Hercules C-130s will worry our closest equipment they never got, or numbers gains when just allies and delight our competitors. Regarding the F-35 tying them up alongside. That is not the way to confront jets, does the Secretary of State agree that cutting back an enemy. The way to confront the enemy is to invest in our order from 138 to 48 will mean that, if required, we the people, give them the right equipment to take on the could never unilaterally operate both carriers in strike threat, and make sure they are active, busy and forward. mode simultaneously? As a soldier, being active, busy and forward is what keeps you engaged and in there. Mr Wallace: I have listened to my right hon. Friend’s consistent messaging over the last few months. I think [913381] Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con): A cyber-security the thing that we can all agree with is that, as he said at conference is one of the only places on earth where the weekend, women never have to queue for the loo. That is because “we must modernise—but first let’s agree the threat—& then there are so few of us in the industry—approximately design the right defence posture.” 10% when I left in 2019. Given that cyber-security is That is exactly what we have been doing. Obviously, in vital to our nation’s defence and that there is a global the Ministry of Defence, we have made sure that we have talent shortage, how will the Government work with been doing that in conjunction with our serving personnel, industry to encourage more women into cyber-security our allies and the threats. I think playing by the Ladybird and to address the skills gap? book of defence design is not the way to progress. Mr Wallace: I am sorry that that has been my hon. John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): Why Friend’s experience. I think in the public sector it is are Britain’s full-time armed forces still 10,000 short of cyber-security. In the intelligence services I worked with the numbers that the last defence review, in 2015, said when I was Security Minister and in key parts of the were needed to meet the threats and keep the country armed forces, such as the Signal Regiment, there are safe, which the Defence Secretary’s Government pledged higher proportions of women. I think that is something to meet? on which the state can lead. That is why the state signed up and sponsored the CyberFirst campaign, designed Mr Wallace: I have listened to the right hon. Gentleman. to stimulate among girls at school an interest in cyber We are 6,000 under. The strength is 76,500 from the and to invest in them. Hopefully, we are seeing an 82,000 that was pledged. He will of course know—it is increase in that. But she can rest assured that with the well documented—that under the previous coalition next stage of the defence review she will see us making Government and Conservative Government there was sure that, loud and clear, the sign “women are welcome” not a satisfactory outcome by the recruiting process. will be put above the door. That has now been fixed. Until the covid break, we were on target to fulfil the pipeline and target for that recruiting. [913380] (Kingston upon Hull West and We have to make sure we continue to invest in that. That Hessle) (Lab) [V]: As I mentioned at the previous defence is why we are investing in people. We will continue to questions, workers at RAF Leeming have been striking invest throughout the process and next week there will since January over a £5,000 pay disparity. Just last be announcements that put people at the heart of our week, Faslane and Coulport workers walked out over defence review. low wages and the looming break-up of their single bargaining unit. What action can the Minister take to John Healey: The Secretary of State may want to stop these loyal staff being exploited? check the numbers. I was talking about the full-time armed forces, not the full-time Army numbers. He has The Minister for Defence Procurement (Jeremy Quin): rightly said before that our forces personnel will go to The hon. Lady refers to two bits of potential industrial war alongside robots in the future, but robots do not action. I have written to her about RAF Leeming in the 19 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 20 last month. Obviously, it is a source of concern when [913387] Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter employers and employees fall out, but I am not going to Ross) (LD) [V]: Some days ago, I read with great get into discussions on the specific action involved. We interest a piece in saying that the intention is urge all those involved to come to an agreement. to deploy Royal Navy warships to the high north to safeguard trade routes via the Arctic. Given the limited [913382] Gareth Davies (Grantham and Stamford) (Con) range of conventionally powered warships, is there a [V]: I very much welcome the Government’s efforts to case for relocating warships further north within the forge new trade links with India. However, given we United Kingdom? share many common security threats and the fact that it is a key strategic ally in the Indo-Pacific region, can Mr Wallace: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for my hon. Friend outline what efforts are being made to raising that question. First and foremost, I can give him better strengthen our defence relationship with India? some reassurance that not only are we continuing to move our submarines from the south to the north to The Minister for the Armed Forces (James Heappey): invest in basing in Scotland—for submarine basing, and The UK Government are committed to working with submarines pose just as lethal a threat to our adversaries the Government of India and increasing our efforts to as any surface fleet—but we continue to patrol the high combat shared threats. In particular, the UK is focused north, recently in the Barents sea, and earlier in the year on increasing bilateral maritime co-operation in the when we returned for the first time since the cold war, Indian ocean and on ensuring a closer defence industrial joining NATO allies to make sure that those vital trade relationship in line with Prime Minister Modi’s made in routes are invested in. From my point of view, the key India policy. We are also committed to uplifting our place for a ship is at sea doing its job on operations. The defence education and training relationship to enable us bases are very important, but let us remember that the to work together more effectively. I am certain that my way we protect our coast is by being out at sea. hon. Friend and our friends in India will be hugely excited by what may follow in the integrated review. [913386] Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con) [V]: The [913383] Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP) [V]: The MOD International Criminal Court’s announcement that it is itself estimates that its equipment plan is underfunded opening an investigation into Israel sets a precedent, by about £8.3 billion in its first five years. We also know, potentially opening the door for non-state actors in for example, that the MOD will need to spend perhaps Afghanistan or Iraq to initiate proceedings against our billions of pounds to bring its single-person living armed forces. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking accommodation up to even a basic minimum tolerable to support Israel against this probe and to ensure that standard. Will the Minister tell us how much of the democratic states will not be prevented from combating additional money that the Prime Minister trumpeted at terrorist threats? the spending review in November will be genuinely new money and how much of it will be swallowed up to fill James Heappey: My hon. Friend is right to ask about these and other existing black holes in the defence the actions of the ICC. We of course respect the budget? independence of the ICC, but we expect it to exercise due prosecutorial and judicial discipline. We continue Jeremy Quin: I am not going to prejudge in advance to engage with the ICC and international partners to of the announcements that are going to be made. They make those points. will all be made in the next eight days or so. The hon. Gentleman will be able to see for himself, but I assure [913398] Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab): him that we have gone through the numbers very closely The Veterans Minister will recall that in defence questions and there is a lot of new money coming into defence—a in November, I raised the concerns that I have about £24 billion increase in the amount of money being veterans’ mental health. Since then, I have been made spent on defence. We can see an awful lot of benefit aware that demand for services has increased 74% during coming through to our armed forces and our personnel. lockdown. Does he think that the funding that goes into [913385] (West ) (Con): With the veterans’ mental health is enough, and because waiting Government’s integrated review due to be published times have continued to be longer for veterans, what imminently, potential investment in programmes such more can we do to support veterans with mental health as Tempest would clearly align with the Government’s difficulties? agenda for skills, development and social value. The defence sector employs unique, high-end design The Minister for Defence People and Veterans and manufacturing capabilities across the UK, with (Johnny Mercer): Under Op Courage, the new NHS significant export potential, so how will constituents pathway for all veterans’ mental health, there is an benefit from this? ability to monitor waiting times in almost real-time data, and I am absolutely committed to meeting those Jeremy Quin: Manyconstituencies and manyconstituents targets. There is significant investment going into it. I will benefit from it. I know my hon. Friend is a fierce will always argue for more investment in something that advocate for Leonardo helicopters in his part of the has historically been underinvested in for so long. But I world. In that particular case, we really value our strategic am confident that, as we stand here today, we have a partnership arrangements and recognise the contribution world-class offering of mental health provision for our that they make to UK prosperity. We will shortly be veterans, and it is incumbent on all of us to get that publishing the findings of our review into the defence cohort to understand where that help is, to understand and security industrial strategy, setting out our strategic what the care pathways are and to have hope, because approach to a number of sectors. they can get better and they will be looked after. 21 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 22

[913388] Sir (Bexleyheath and Crayford) will the Government commit to ensuring that all areas (Con) [V]: How have the emerging military technologies of potential disadvantage are addressed for north-east that are being used in the ongoing conflict in Nagorno- veterans? Karabakh impacted my right hon. Friend’s Department’s assessment of threat, ahead of the integrated review? Johnny Mercer: The Armed Forces Bill is an important opportunity to enshrine the armed forces covenant. I Mr Wallace: The recent conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh understand that for some it goes too far and for some it demonstrated with brutal clarity the devastating impact does not go far enough. I say to the hon. Member that it of unmanned aerial vehicles, intelligence, surveillance, is the start of the process and the start of a conversation reconnaissance and traditional artillery when combined to ensure that the experience of being a veteran is to produce a lethal cocktail of precision, lethality and levelled up across this country, and I look forward to range. The destruction of Armenian forces throughout working with her in the years ahead. the battlefield, not just on the frontline, demonstrated the vulnerability even of armoured forces on the modern [913390] James Gray (North ) (Con): The battlefield. This includes our own forces, which is not hundred or so families at Lyneham in my constituency something that, as Defence Secretary, I am willing to who are facing eviction from Annington homes will very ignore any further. I will set out further details in the much welcome the Minister’s remark a moment ago future review. that he is to extend the eviction notice period until next March. They will also be glad that there are to be [913400] Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab) [V]: The negotiations with about this, Secretary of State will be well aware of the historic but is the Minister aware of the further complication failure of the Government to repay the £400 million that those homes get their utilities from within the base? International Military Services debt to Iran. My constituent Annington Homes has so far said that that would Anoosheh Ashoori is just one of the dual nationals preclude them from being sold. Will he instruct officials being held hostage in Iran as diplomatic leverage. There to look into what can be done about that particular is no doubt that this debt has caused their detainment; circumstance? officials in Iran have confirmed that. What action is the Secretary of State, along with colleagues in the Foreign Jeremy Quin: I hope we may have found a technical Office, going to take to resolve this shameful situation solution that would enable base-dependent sites to be with urgency? dealt with to allow sales to social housing providers if the parties agree. Our advice is that the transfer of supply Mr Wallace: The hon. Member will know that I held can generally be effected relatively rapidly, and we are a debate in the House as a Back-Bencher about that willing to share this advice with Annington, which will very debt and the need and determination to repay it, as need to be satisfied that it can perform connections to it is a stain on Britain’s honour from when we dealt with mains networks safely and efficiently with tenants in situ. this in the 1970s. It is definitely the intention that we comply with any court orders that are made against us, [913391] Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): It and we continue to do so, but we have to ensure that should be possible to restore the pensions of the small whatever we do is in line with both this law and the cohort of war widows who lost them on remarriage or sanctions law that we have to observe as well. cohabitation without setting a precedent that would open the floodgates in respect of other cohorts, so what [913389] (Fylde) (Con) [V]: The BAE progress is the Department making in addressing this Systems site at Warton in my constituency employs debt of honour? more than 6,000 people, serving as a source of high-skilled employment and playing a critical role in UK defence Johnny Mercer: I am aligned with my right hon. capability. With the Team Tempest project reaching its Friend’sviews. The Secretary of State has worked tirelessly critical phase, does my hon. Friend agree that the project on this issue to try to correct the historic injustice of must be at the heart of the Government’s defence plans war widows’ pensions. We continue to examine all and must be provided with the backing it needs to give possibilities, including the ex gratia scheme and all the it certainty for the future? other ideas that my right hon. Friend has come up with in his tireless campaigning. We will arrive at a solution. Jeremy Quin: Warton plays a key role in the UK’s Like I said, the Secretary of State is committed to combat air sector and Tempest is the future of that resolving it, and we will get there in the end. sector, with over 1,800 highly skilled engineers already involved in the programme, going up to 2,500 next year. Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): The As the Prime Minister has made clear, this Government Government maintain that every F-35 built has 15% UK are committed to investing in the future of our combat content, but I understand that the MOD’s definition of air strategy. “content” includes work carried out for UK companies by US subsidiaries. Will the Minister therefore publish [913408] Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne how he defines UK content in the programme, so that I North) (Lab) [V]: The north-east sends a higher proportion can decide what is done in the UK and what is done in of people into the armed forces than any other region, the US? but it also has historically high levels of unemployment. Service charities are concerned that the scope of the Jeremy Quin: I have received a large number of Armed Forces Bill is too narrow and that it does not parliamentary questions from the right hon. Gentleman, address specific challenges such as employment. Given the and I believe that I have answered that question as part challenges of the transition from service to civilian life, of them. If not, I will make certain that it is clear to him. 23 Oral Answers 15 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 24

It is 15% by value, and we are proud of the contribution continuous at-sea deterrence, but changes to our non- that is being made by UK manufacturing to the F-35. I proliferation policy deserve proper oversight in this will make certain that that is covered again. House and should not be used a sweetener to overshadow dramatic cuts to our conventional defence posture. May John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): On a I ask for your guidance on how we can encourage the point of order, Mr Speaker. The is MOD to brief the Defence Committee—perhaps in the clear that Ladybird book form that the Defence Secretary likes to “When Parliament is in session, the most important announcements promote—and to ensure that any announcements on of Government policy should be made in the first instance, in CASD are made in this Chamber first? Parliament.” I know that you believe this principle to be fundamental Mr Speaker: I am grateful to both right hon. Gentlemen to the proper role of Parliament and the accountability for giving me notice of their points of order. “Erskine of Ministers. We look forward to the Prime Minister’s May” states that statement tomorrow on the integrated review, yet over “The Speaker has made it clear that the media should not be the last week there have been a series of detailed media informed about the content of statements before they have been briefings about decisions in that integrated review. With made to the House”. the Defence Secretary in his place, can you offer guidance When a statement is made, Members will of course have to the House, ahead of the follow-up Command Paper an opportunity to ask about any advance briefing given on Monday and the defence industrial strategy on Tuesday, to the media, but my position is clear: I want important so that we do not have the same serious disregard of the policy announcements to be made first to this House. ministerial code and disrespect for Parliament? Ministers on the Treasury Bench will have heard the comments of the right hon. Member for Wentworth Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): Further and Dearne (John Healey) and the Chair of the Defence, to that point of order, Mr Speaker. We have indeed seen Committee as well as this response. I expect that that a steady drumbeat of media stories promoting radical response will be shared with all Ministers and that they changes to our defence posture, but the Defence Committee will act accordingly. Thank you. has not received any of those briefings, despite frequent I suspend the House to enable the necessary arrangements departmental requests. What troubles me the most is to be made for the next business. the MOD’s decision to share with the media the desire to increase our nuclear stockpile with the purchase of 3.38 pm 200 W93 US-made warheads. I am a firm supporter of Sitting suspended. 25 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 26 against Women Policing and Prevention of Violence has a violent or abusive past. We have also introduced against Women new preventative tools and powers to tackle crimes including stalking, female genital mutilation and so-called upskirting, but we can never be complacent. That is why 3.40 pm throughout the passage of the Domestic Abuse Bill, we Mr Speaker: Before we come to the statement by the have accepted amendments from hon. Members from Home Secretary, I need to inform the House that because political parties across the House. The Bill now includes charges have now been brought in the Sarah Everard a new offence of non-fatal strangulation, outlaws threats case, legal proceedings are now active for the purposes to disclose intimate images and extends the controlling of the House’s sub judice resolution. That means that or coercive behaviour offence to cover post-separation reference should not be made to the case, including to abuse. This is in addition to the Bill’s existing measures, any details of those against whom charges have been which include a new statutory definition of domestic brought. It is, however, in order to discuss the relationship abuse that recognises the many forms that abuse can between the covid-19 regulations and the right to protest, take—psychological, physical, emotional, economic and for example. I now call the Home Secretary. sexual—and, of course, the impact of abuse on children, as well as new rules to prevent victims from having to go The Secretary of State for the Home Department through the pain of being cross-examined by their (Priti Patel): With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like abusers in family and civil courts. to make a statement on the tragic We all know that action is needed to improve the and the events of Saturday evening. I would like to begin outcomes for rape cases, and we are currently developing by saying that my thoughts and prayers are with Sarah’s robust actions as part of our end-to-end review of rape family and friends at this unbearable time. I know that to reverse the decline in outcomes in recent years. At the every Member of this House will join me in offering her end of last year, in December, I launched the first ever loved ones our deepest sympathies. While this is a horrific public survey of women and girls to hear their views on case, which has rightly prompted debate and questions how we can better tackle these gendered crimes. On about wider issues, we must remember that a young Friday, in the wake of the outpouring of grief, I reopened woman has lost her life and that a family is grieving. that survey. I can tell the House that as of 11 am today, Let me turn to this weekend’s events. I have already the Home Office had received 78,000 responses since said that some of the footage circulating online of 6 pm on Friday. That is completely unprecedented, and Clapham common is upsetting. While the police are considerably more than the 18,000 responses received rightly operationally independent, I asked the Metropolitan over the entire 10-week period when the survey was police for a report into what had happened. This previously open. I am listening to women and girls up Government back our police in fighting crime and and down the country, and their views will help to shape keeping the public safe, but in the interests of providing a new strategy on tackling violence against women and greater assurance and ensuring public confidence, I girls, which I will bring forward to the House later this have asked Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary year. to conduct a full, independent lessons-learned review. The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, which The Commissioner has welcomed we will shortly be debating, will end the halfway release this and I will await the report and, of course, update of those convicted for sexual offences such as rape. Instead, the House in due course. under our law, vile criminals responsible for these terrible I would like to take a moment to acknowledge why crimes will spend at least two thirds of their time behind Sarah’s death has upset so many. My heartache and that bars. Our new law will extend the scope of the Sexual of others can be summed up in just five words, “She was Offences Act 2003 with regard to the abuse of positions just walking home.” While the specific circumstances of of trust—something that predominantly affects young Sarah’s disappearance are thankfully uncommon, what girls—and it will introduce Kay’slaw,which will encourage has happened has reminded women everywhere of the the police to impose pre-charge bail with appropriate steps that we take each day without a second thought to conditions where it is necessary and proportionate to keep ourselves safe. It has rightly ignited anger at the do so. We hope that that will provide reassurance and danger posed to women by predatory men, an anger I additional protection for alleged victims in high harm feel as strongly as anyone. Accounts shared online in cases such as domestic abuse. I note that the Opposition the wake of Sarah’s disappearance are so powerful will be voting against these crucial measures to support because every single one of us can relate to them. Too victims of violent crimes, including young women and many of us have walked home from school or work girls. alone only to hear footsteps uncomfortably close behind The Government are providing an extra £40 million us. Too many of us have pretended to be on the phone to help victims during the pandemic and beyond. Last to a friend to scare someone off. Too many of us have month we launched a new Government advertising clutched our keys in our fist in case we need to defend campaign, #ItStillMatters, to raise awareness of sexual ourselves. And that is not okay. violence services and ensure that victims know where to Women and girls must feel safe while walking our get help. streets. That is why we have continued to take action. Over the past year, during the coronavirus pandemic, Our landmark Domestic Abuse Bill is on track to receive the police have been faced with an unenviable and Royal Assent by the end of April, and this will transform immensely difficult task—one that, for the most part, our collective response to that abhorrent crime. It builds they have approached with skill and professionalism—of on other measures that we have introduced, including the helping to enforce regulations,as determined by Parliament, controlling or coercive behaviour offence and the domestic with one crucial objective in mind: to save lives. On violence disclosure scheme, known as Clare’s law, which 6 January,this House approved those changes by 524 votes enables individuals to ask the police whether their partner to 16. Sadly, as of Sunday 14 March, more than 125,500 27 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 28 against Women against Women [Priti Patel] Figures from the Office for National Statistics show that recorded rapes doubled between 2014 and 2019— lives have been lost to this horrible virus. It is for that doubled. The crime survey for England and Wales reason that I continue to urge everyone, for as long as showed that more than 2 million people experience these regulations are in place, not to participate in large domestic abuse in a year, yet only a tiny fraction of gatherings or attend protests. The right to protest is the perpetrators are charged and charging rates are falling. cornerstone of our democracy, but the Government’s The justice system sends a perverse message that murdering duty remains to prevent more lives from being lost someone at home—which predominantly means men during the pandemic. killing women—is a lesser crime than killing someone There will undoubtedly be more discussions of these in the street, because it hands out shorter sentences for vital issues in the days and weeks to come, but we domestic homicides. cannot and must not forget that a family is grieving. I The 296-page Bill that we will consider later contains know that the thoughts and prayers of the whole House the word “memorial” eight times and fails to include the are with Sarah’s loved ones at this truly terrible time. word “women” once. The Government’s message is that they want to lock up for 10 years people who damage the statues of slave traders, when rape sentences start at 3.49 pm half of that. I say to the Government that unless this Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab): I thank the changes—unless there is action on homicide, on street Home Secretary for coming to the House to make a harassment and on stalking—the Bill will risk becoming statement and for advance sight of it. We come together an abuser’s charter that just allows violence and injustice at a time of national grief and what must now be a time on our streets and in our homes to continue unchecked. of change. The news of Sarah Everard’s death is Ministers have been on the airwaves today struggling heartbreaking for us all and our thoughts are with her to find aspects of the Bill that will make a difference to family and friends. Although I of course appreciate the addressing violence against women and girls. Let me legal sensitivity of the case,reports around its circumstances take just one example: Ministers have pointed to whole-life are extremely distressing. tariffs for rape. When the Home Secretary gets to her The reaction to Sarah Everard’s death throughout feet, will she say how many rape convictions have resulted the country has been extraordinarily powerful and moving, in life terms? The answer is hardly any. Today, the High led by the passionate voices of women and girls who are Court ruled in favour of the status quo on rape. It is a rightly demanding action and change. It cannot be right status quo that is shameful and that the Government that so many women continue to fear for their safety on must change. The figures show that 99% of rapes reported a daily basis, whether on the streets or at home. The to the police in England and Wales result in no legal testimonies that have been shared highlight the unacceptable proceedings whatsoever—99%. It is effectively a get-out- levels of abuse and misogyny—harassment on the streets; of-jail-free card and it is appalling. women walking home with their headphones turned off It does not have to be this way: this could be a time of so that they can listen for threats, keys between fingers; national unity when we decide to come together as a women being told to stay home after dark to avoid country to put forward protections.Either the Government attackers. Let me be clear: it is not women who should can change course and take the necessary action, or change their behaviour; it is men and wider society that Ministers will find themselves on the wrong side of need to change. history once again. At times like this, it is vital that people are able to have their voices heard—in, of course, a way that is Priti Patel: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his lawful and covid-secure—yet this weekend in Clapham comments, but at a time when the country is mourning things clearly went very wrong. I share the anger about a significant loss and there are moments of great unity, the policing and the scenes that we saw. It is right that I am quite sorry to hear his tone, particularly regarding the Mayor of London has shown leadership by calling the Government’s record on and commitment to tackling on Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary and the violence against women and girls. Independent Office for Police Conduct to investigate. The The right hon. Gentleman will be well sighted—more Home Secretary asked for a report from the Metropolitan than aware—of the significant contributions of all Members Police Commissioner, and I hope she will publish it, of this House to the Domestic Abuse Bill, which has because transparency is so important. Will the Home been under debate, scrutiny, challenge and amendment Secretary also publish the minutes of the advance meeting for a considerable period of time, and is in the House of that was held on Friday, as mentioned by the Minister Lords right now. I emphasise that we are committed to for Crime and Policing in the media this morning? Will addressing violence against women and girls at the she confirm what communication she personally had with highest level. Look at the work of this Government over the Metropolitan police prior to the events on Saturday? the last decade; I pay particular tribute to my right hon. Although Saturday’s event was a vigil, not a protest, Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) for all the scenes from Clapham should be a red warning light her work, as she was the one who really set the bar high to the Government: Ministers should not be rushing in legislation. That work includes not just the DA Bill, through laws that crack down on protest. The truth is but all the measures to address female genital mutilation, that the Government are failing to address violence and violence against women and girls, and all the money against women and girls and Ministers even want to and support that has been put forward for charities. curtail their right to protest about it. It is a chronic This Government are building on those measures, and failure of the Government. Meetings and the reopening no one can ignore that simple fact. of surveys are nowhere near enough—and we understand The right hon. Gentleman referred to the Police, that the Minister for Women and Equalities will not Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, which will be debated even be attending the meeting this evening. this afternoon, and he specifically mentioned rape and 29 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 30 against Women against Women rape convictions. The Bill is a criminal justice Bill as Does my right hon. Friend agree that we must redouble well as a policing Bill, and he will be very mindful of the our efforts to ensure that the Government’s excellent work that the Government are undertaking right now Domestic Abuse Bill reaches the statute book next through the end-to-end rape review to completely reverse month, as anticipated, but also recognise that legislation the decline in outcomes that we have seen in recent is not enough? If we are going to eradicate violence years; this Government are increasingly very honest against women and girls, we need a change of attitudes. and upfront about that decline in outcomes. We are That is about dealing with perpetrators and changing working with all relevant parties, including the Crown their behaviour but also teaching young men and boys Prosecution Service. We want to change the direction about respect for women and what is or is not acceptable there. There is much more work to come and that will in a relationship. be published in due course—shortly, in fact. Tosay that the Bill does nothing for women is completely Priti Patel: I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for wrong, especially when it comes to sentencing, because her work and leadership around domestic abuse and it will end the halfway release of those convicted for violence against women and girls. She is absolutely right sexual offences such as rape. Instead, our laws will go that the Domestic Abuse Bill is a landmark piece of after those vile criminals, and they will spend at least legislation that all Members of the House should feel two thirds of their time behind bars. It is worth reflecting proud of, in terms of the work that has come together that it was a Labour Government in 2003 who made across the House. She is also right about the cultural automatic halfway release mandatory for all standard and behavioural aspects that must be changed. All of us determinate sentences, regardless of whether the offender have to be conscious of that. As a mother bringing up a had been convicted of a violent or sexual offence. The young son, I think that respecting women and girls, Bill that the House will debate later will reverse that treating everyone fairly with equality and understanding policy. that there are no barriers in demonstrating that respect The right hon. Gentleman said that there is no specific to one another and, importantly, tolerance of one another mention of women in the Bill. That is another accusation is absolutely vital. that I reject, primarily because it is a criminal law and There is so much more work to do. Legislation can sentencing Bill, which applies equally to everybody. The only go so far. We can never, ever be complacent. The Labour party knows that it is in line with the Serious Government and both Houses share the determination Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 and the Criminal and desire to do so much more when it comes to Justice Act 2003, neither of which, as Bills that related protecting girls and women, and we must be united in to criminal justice and sentencing, mentioned women. our strategies. This is not about just saying, “There’s a There are many other measures that we will discuss survey taking place.” We must all contribute to that. In later in the passage of the Bill, but I want to come back fact, now that the survey has been reopened, I very to the points that I made in my statement. It is right that much hope that Labour Members will contribute to it, I have had many discussions with the Metropolitan to help us have a united and coherent approach—a one police and specifically the commissioner on Friday and voice approach—to how we can support women and over the weekend in relation to preparations and planning girls and prevent violence against women and girls. prior to Saturday evening. My comments are public and on the record regarding what has happened and, quite Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP) frankly, the upsetting images of Saturday evening. A [V]: The murder of Sarah Everard has truly shocked review is now being conducted by Her Majesty’sinspectorate and saddened us all, and I join others in sending our of constabulary. It is right that that takes place. No one heartfelt condolences to Sarah’s family and friends at should prejudge anything in terms of conduct until we this time. “She was walking home”—a sentence that absolutely see what has happened through that report. resonates with all women. This tragedy serves as a stark The police are, rightly, operationally independent. reminder to women, who assess every aspect of their All of us in this House—this is not just about the daily lives in fear of sexual violence, assault or abhorrent Government—want to work to drive the right outcomes, crimes at the hands of men. I once more take this so that women feel safe. Laws and legislation will absolutely opportunity to urge the Prime Minister to ratify the do that; there is no question about that. But this is also Istanbul convention without further delay. about behaviour and culture—that is culture across Across the UK this weekend, women reclaimed the society, and that is culture with men as well, and we streets in protest and to pay tribute to the life of should be up-front about that and never shy away from Sarah Everard. Police responding have received widespread being honest in discussing that. Right now, all Members criticism, and questions must be answered about whether should have in their thoughts and prayers Sarah’s family the actions were necessary and proportionate to and friends at this particularly unbearable time. protect people and prevent public harm. The public health crisis has made restrictions necessary and public Mrs (Maidenhead) (Con): I thank my gatherings inadvisable. While the police face difficult right hon. Friend for her remarks. She is right to remind decisions every day, it is impossible to watch the footage us that behind the events of Saturday lies the tragic of the events at Clapham common without shock and death of Sarah Everard, a bright young woman dearly concern that the policing appeared heavy-handed and loved by her family and friends. I join my right hon. disproportionate. It is therefore right that the chief Friend and other Members of the House in saying that inspector of constabulary has been asked to conduct a my thoughts and prayers are with Sarah’s family and review.In Scotland, this incident would have been examined friends at this time. We want justice for Sarah. We also by the Independent Advisory Group—experts with a want women to be able to feel and be safe on our streets specific remit to ensure that the use of powers is consistent and in their homes. with human rights principles and legislation. 31 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 32 against Women against Women [Angela Crawley] problem where they move from one victim to another, no one keeps track and they get away with it. At that In terms of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts time, Ministers said that those measures were not needed. Bill, the right to protest must remain a fundamental Has the Home Secretary looked at this again? Will she human right. Will the Secretary of State confirm that work with me, Baroness Royall and Paladin to make the chief inspector’s review will focus on human rights sure we can bring in these strong measures, take action as well as policing matters? against repeat perpetrators and keep more women safe? Priti Patel: I thank the hon. Lady for her remarks Priti Patel: The right hon. Lady is absolutely right and for her sentiment on the tragic death of Sarah Everard. about the points that she has been raising and the If I may, I will come back on a number of points. The measures at large. There is something about perpetrators hon. Lady is absolutely right on the role of the inspectorate, and their serial offending that has to be addressed—there and we will wait for that review and, obviously, I will is no question about that. Of course this does link report back. It is worth reflecting, once again, that this predominantly to many of the criminal justice outcomes has been a difficult and demanding period for the and the wider debate that this House will be having, not police, with the impact of coronavirus restrictions—we just later today, but over future weeks. I will be very know why they are in place. On the point about protest, candid: we will look at all measures, and rightly so. We I am very conscious that we will have the debate later should be doing everything possible to keep women this afternoon as well. This Government absolutely safe—and indeed everybody safe. The behaviour of support freedom of expression and, clearly, the whole serial perpetrators and offenders is deeply corrosive and issue of the right to protest is fundamental to our damaging, and obviously it has dreadful, dreadful democratic freedoms. Without wanting to pre-judge the implications and consequences. So we will be happy to debate or the future discussions on the Bill, let me say continue not just to look at these measures, but, right that the legislation will, of course, speak about the now,with the violence against women and girls consultation police using powers in terms of how they would manage that is under way, to engage with others and follow up protest, but it is also worth reflecting that this will be on these points. updating legislation—the Public Order Act 1986—that was enacted more than 30 years ago. So this will be very Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con) [V]: It is clearly unacceptable much part of the discussion we will be having in due for any woman to feel unsafe walking the streets. Can I course. propose some practical measures that the Home Secretary might adopt? Can she introduce a fund to roll out much Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland) (Con) [V]: I join more CCTV around the country, which will help to my right hon. Friend and voices from right across the make our streets safer for people and bring evidence House in paying my deepest condolences to Sarah where there is a crime committed? Can she stop taking Everard’s family and loved ones. It is a truly heartbreaking people off the DNA database? There are huge numbers situation, which I know has allowed many women to of crimes—sexual assaults, rapes and murders—where find the strength to share their own experiences, and I there is DNA evidence available but no match. The was really moved to hear that 78,000 people have now more people on the DNA database, the more chance of responded to the reopened consultation. I am encouraging getting these people off our streets and rightly convicted. many others to do the same and share their voice. Does Can we increase the sentences for people convicted of my right hon. Friend agree that if we really want to get sexual assaults and rapes? Can we stop the automatic the best outcome and make our streets feel safer for early release of criminals who are still considered a everyone, we have to listen to all voices—both men and threat to society? These measures would help to make women, and people of all political persuasions—to our streets safer for everyone. ensure that we are truly working together to deliver the change we need? Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for his comments and his practical suggestions. We are doing a lot on Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for her comments CCTV, and we do have the Safer Streets fund, which he and her questions. She is of course absolutely right; this will be very aware of. He has raised a number of areas, is a collective effort, for everyone to be part of shaping and I suspect that if he were to join the Committee on future strategy, policy and legislation. We can do that the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, he could together, which is why it is unprecedented and incredible absolutely contribute to that and make those points that 78,000 people have responded to the survey. We are there. really pleased about that, because we do want to encourage people to contribute.As you have heard me say,Mr Speaker, Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Streatham) (Lab): I join Members I encourage all Members of this House to play their role in continuing to extend our thoughts and prayers to and join that contribution. Sarah Everard’s family. My constituents have reacted with justified anger to the Metropolitan police’s treatment (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) of those in attendance at this weekend’s vigil to (Lab): May I join in the expressions from across the commemorate Sarah and all women who lost their lives House of deep sympathy and condolences to Sarah to gender-based violence. It is bitterly ironic that an Everard’s family following her tragic death? Women event intended to highlight the issue of public safety for across the country have been moved to talk about the women was blocked on the grounds of public safety. experiences that we all share, and that no one should What happened this weekend is a reminder of what have to endure, of feeling threatened and unsafe on our happens when police try to completely bypass the views own streets. Eight months ago, I put forward measures of the communities they serve. Does the Home Secretary to deal with repeat perpetrators of abuse and stalking: recognise that the police’s high-handed approach got to be able to register them; and to be able to prevent the the balance between public safety and the right to 33 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 34 against Women against Women protest completely wrong? Does she agree that the Government—not just the Home Office, but across the police’s heavy-handed treatment of female protesters MOJ—where we are bringing core elements together was wrong? Will she now accept that her Police, Crime, with the Director of Public Prosecutions, and working Sentencing and Courts Bill is ill-conceived? My constituents with the CPS and working with the Attorney General. are very angry about what has happened and want to These issues are absolutely integral to the entire system. know what the Government will do to reassure them that they will proactively address violence against women (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD) [V]: I send and girls and deep-seated forms of institutional my condolences and thoughts to the family and friends discrimination in the UK police. of Sarah Everard at this most difficult of times. The scenes of women being forced to the ground, Priti Patel: I understand the sentiments that the hon. restrained and arrested simply for holding a peaceful Lady is raising on behalf of her constituents and obviously vigil in memory of Sarah Everard and in condemnation recognise the constituency that she represents and the of violence against women and girls were utterly disgraceful. terrible, tragic events that have taken place. All our Of course the Met Commissioner must thoughts are clearly with Sarah Everard and her family. resign, but what personal responsibility does the Home Of course, the Metropolitan police themselves had been Secretary herself have for the terrible handling of this involved with the vigil that was planned and spent a peaceful vigil? Did the Home Secretary speak to the great deal of time with the organisers, and the Metropolitan Met commissioner in the run-up to the vigil, and if so, police have been very public about that. I am not going will she tell the House now what guidance and advice to repeat my comments about seeking greater assurance she gave the Met police in advance of the vigil? and ensuring public confidence in policing, hence the reason why Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary Priti Patel: The right hon. Gentleman is right in the is now conducting a full, independent “lessons learned” sense that those scenes were distressing and upsetting. review.I think that is absolutely appropriate. My comments There is no question about that at all, and I have about Saturday evening are on the record and well already spoken about the measures that are now in known. place for getting assurance about the way in which the With regard to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Metropolitan police conducted its operations. It is rightly Courts Bill, that is a manifesto Bill that this Government operationally independent, and the independent lessons were elected on, and we will of course participate in its learned review is obviously now taking place. Second Reading later on this afternoon. It is not ill- I had been in touch with the Metropolitan Police conceived at all. The voted for it. We live Commissioner on Friday and throughout the weekend, in a democracy and this Government will work to and we have had extensive discussions on planning and deliver on it. preparation for the vigil. I should, however, emphasise that on Friday there was legal action under way, so until Mrs (Mid Derbyshire) (Con) [V]: I that legal action had been determined—and of course welcome the announced in-depth review of the criminal the commissioner and the Met police themselves were justice system when it comes to rape and sexual assault. engaging with the organisers of the vigil—there were Does my right hon. Friend agree that every part of the various plans that the police were working on. I will be criminal justice system has to play its role in bringing very clear, though: on Friday my views were known, perpetrators to justice and better supporting victims? A and they were based on the fact that people obviously lot of rape happens within marriage, and it is not the wanted to pay tribute within the locality. best situation when people have married under the age Weneed to bear in mind that we are in a pandemic—we of 18 to a man who is much older. Will she also look at cannot forget that; we are in a health pandemic—but that to see how we can stop that sort of situation for people who live locally and out on a daily basis or arising? passing through, laying flowers is absolutely the right thing to do, and we saw many people doing that. Of Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I course, as I have said, those scenes on Saturday evening would like to pay tribute to her for all her work and were upsetting. That is the reason why I asked the campaigning on this particular issue. Of course, she is Metropolitan Police Commissioner to provide a report absolutely right that this about the criminal justice on the event itself and what happened, and now why we system from an end-to-end perspective—from policing have a lessons learned review into the operational effect right through not just to charging, but to conviction. and the impact of what happened. That is effectively what the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill is about, which is why it goes across two (Wimbledon) (Con) [V]: Like Departments. colleagues across the House, my condolences are with The rape review is fundamentally important because Sarah Everard’s family and friends. obviously the numbers have not been going in the right All women should feel safe, and no offender should direction. We have to understand the lessons as to why think they can abuse women on the streets or anywhere charging decisions have been how they are, and the else. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that all impact on witnesses and victims themselves, including, reports of allegations of abuse must be seriously and with victims, the attrition that takes place when it comes more rigorously investigated, and that there must be to going to court. A lot of work is taking place in this confidence in the justice system that it will do this and area. that it will support victims? Will she confirm that she I should also mention in dispatches that the intends that there will be such confidence in the justice Prime Minister leads the crime and justice taskforce. system after the consultation on the violence against This is one of those fundamental issues, again across women and girls strategy? 35 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 36 against Women against Women Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Much Sir : My apologies, Mr Speaker. I of what we are discussing right now speaks to greater was not going to refer to him other than just in passing. assurance and public confidence in the criminal justice The reality is that my right hon. Friend has announced system and of course, as Members have touched on that she will have an inquiry into those terrible events already, in policing and the events on Saturday evening. on Saturday night. They were shameful, but it ill behoves It is vitally important that, through the VAWGconsultation politicians to get up and pass judgment on what happened and the development of the strategy, we look at this not without having all the evidence. I was contacted by a in an isolated way, but end to end. We need to look at female police officer today to tell me what happened to the entire system, right down to the types of abuse and her on that night. She was threatened and told that she, harassment that girls and women are experiencing. We not Sarah Everard, should have been murdered. She need to look at the root causes and behavioural factors was also manhandled. I simply say that both sides to understand why perpetrators and individuals are should be dialling this down, not trying to raise the behaving in a particular way. We need to look at why temperature by calling for resignations. abuse is taking place and at how we as a country and a Government tackle those issues. That does impinge on the criminal justice system. All our work is based on Priti Patel: I thank my right hon. Friend for his driving better outcomes—the right outcomes—so that, remarks—his point was well made. I, too, have been when criminality takes place, we can ensure that the written to by many police officers expressing very similar perpetrators of crimes are receiving the tough sentences sentiments from their own experiences. The point about that they deserve. not pre-judging is absolutely right. The police have operational independence. Obviously, as Home Secretary, I called for a report. I have now received that report, Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green) [V]: I and an independent review is under way. It is right that join others in extending my condolences to Sarah Everard’s we have that review, yes, for assurance purposes, but family and to the families of Bibaa Henry and Nicole also to strengthen public confidence in policing and, Smallman and countless others who have lost their lives obviously, for all Members of this House to hear the because of male violence. full facts of what happened in due course. I acknowledge the particular policing challenges at a time of covid restrictions, but the Met is still obliged to Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC) [V]: I follow the Human Rights Act and execute its powers take this opportunity to extend my personal sympathy proportionately and only when necessary. It is clear to to the family and friends of Sarah Everard at this everyone that it got it terribly wrong on Saturday night. horrific time. Does the Secretary of State therefore not see that handing over yet more draconian powers to the police when they In June 2020, I proposed a domestic abuse register for have so badly misjudged this situation would be both the early identification of abusive men as a means of foolish and dangerous? A Bill that criminalises protests preventing death and injury.The Minister for Safeguarding that are noisy and have impact effectively means cancelling rejected that, claiming that current systems for preventing this country’s long-standing right to peaceful protest violence against women were adequate. The National altogether. Finally, will she stand in solidarity with the Police Chiefs’ Council also objected, on the grounds of women arrested over the weekend and call for the cost and its capacity to manage such a register. withdrawal of any fixed-penalty notices that were issued I sense that the Government now recognise that the because of the Met’s disproportionate response? current system is failing women and that a properly funded, staffed and supported register for serial stalkers Priti Patel: I will not go over my comments about the and domestic violence perpetrators is urgently needed. police on Saturday evening. Those points have been made. How will the Home Secretary ensure that such new I absolutely disagree with what the hon. Lady said, but proposals and funding properly account for the different we will discuss it further on Second Reading of the Police, legislative landscape in Wales, so that women in Wales Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill later this afternoon. are not excluded from future protections, which I hope The fact is that, as a country, we believe in freedom of are on their way? expression, free speech and the rights of people to express themselves freely through protest—managed protest—in Priti Patel: I think this is an important moment for the right way. The police always engage with individuals this House and for all colleagues when it comes to and organisers. We will debate this during the course of Domestic Abuse Bill measures, which have been extensively the Bill, but I am afraid that the hon. Lady has completely debated in the House. The right hon. Lady has clearly misrepresented the proposals that we are putting forward. spoken about Wales and the authority and responsibilities there. We are absolutely working across the devolved Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Administrations,because we want consistency of approach. Green) (Con): The murder of Sarah Everard was a It is right that we all work together to support women, shocking event and I feel terribly sorry for what the and the Domestic Abuse Bill will absolutely do that. family has gone through, made even edgier really by the My hon. Friend the Minister for Safeguarding has fact that there have now been charges levelled against a worked extensively with all colleagues in the House on police officer.Werequire police officers to protect everybody, the issue that the right hon. Lady raises, but the fact of particularly women. However, I received a note— the matter is that we want that Bill to receive Royal Assent. It should do so very soon. We need that to Mr Speaker: Order. I remind the right hon. Gentleman happen to safeguard more and more women and give that we should not be talking about the suspect at this them the protection that they desperately need from stage. their abusers. 37 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 38 against Women against Women Chris Loder () (Con): I went to Clapham Miss Sarah Dines (Derbyshire Dales) (Con): May I common bandstand yesterday evening to pay my own also offer my condolences to the friends and family of respects. I, like Members across the House, send my Sarah Everard? Does my right hon. Friend agree that it greatest sympathies and sadnesses to Sarah’s family. is absurd to hear this afternoon that the Opposition are I believe that it is highly regrettable that Members of actually opposing the provisions of the Police, Crime, the Opposition demand that the first female Commissioner Sentencing and Courts Bill, which wants to increase of the Metropolitan police resign in this situation. May sentences for rapists? There is a dichotomy there that is I ask my right hon. Friend what she is doing to ensure a bit absurd, is it not? that the facts are understood properly before premature conclusions are made on people’s actions? Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. To be very frank, I was quite surprised when I heard that was the position that the Opposition were taking. This is a Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for his question criminal justice Bill. It will increase sentences for individuals and for the sentiment that he has shared with the House and perpetrators who perpetrate the most horrendous, this afternoon. I agree entirely with his comments. appalling sexual offences and crimes against women, Alongside that, of course, he asks what I am doing. I children and citizens. It is an important Bill, as I have have commissioned the inspectorate of constabulary. It already said. It was key to our manifesto, and the is important that we have the full facts in addition, to British public voted for it. This Government and our supplement the lessons learned review. I come back to party in government are absolutely determined to strengthen the point that I really, strongly recommend that colleagues our laws and the criminal justice system so that we can do not prejudge. The images were upsetting—of course put away those individuals who cause harm to individuals they were upsetting—but alongside that, it is right that and increase sentences. we see the full report in due course and that we hear the facts as they come out. Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab) [V]: Our thoughts and prayers are with Sarah Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): I add my condolences Everard’s family. The Home Secretary will be aware to the family and friends of Ms Everard, and all those that the whole nation was upset by the images of who have been affected by this most hellish and tragic women who had come to a peaceful vigil about violence of murders. against women finding themselves wrestled to the ground Turning to the events that we saw on Clapham common and handcuffed by police officers. The statement by the on Saturday evening, I think Members are entitled to Metropolitan police sought to justify what happened on ask the question, what on earth was the Metropolitan Saturday by talking about police thinking? What on earth happened to police “the overriding need to protect people’s safety”. discretion? What on earth happened to proportionality, Is she aware that some people are puzzled by the idea to flexibility, to empathy, to any sense of self-awareness, that you can make people safe by manhandling them given the circumstances that surrounded that hellish and handcuffing them? murder? Every ingredient of good policing, in my view and in the view of many of my constituents, appeared In relation to the policing Bill, which the House will to be completely absent from the policing activity on be debating later, the Home Secretary herself has made Clapham common. it clear that it is expressly designed to crack down on peaceful protests by groups such as The defining image that will stick in the collective and . She described the peaceful mind of Britain will be of Patsy Stevenson being almost protests by Black Lives Matter as “dreadful”. Can she sat upon by three police officers while being detained. I understand why many people in this country believe must say that if I saw one of my adult daughters treated that giving the police even more powers to crack down in that way, I would find it impossible to contain my on peaceful protest can only lead to more distressing anger. May I ask the Home Secretary, therefore: how scenes like those the nation witnessed on Saturday at quickly will this report be made available? How expeditiously the vigil on Clapham common? can she act to rectify what is an appalling wrong? Priti Patel: With respect to the right hon. Lady, I urge Priti Patel: The hon. Gentleman’s comments are very her not to be so judgmental with regards to the events strong, but in response to his question, he knows, and on Saturday evening until we see the report that comes the House knows, that I have commissioned a report from Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary. She from the inspectorate of constabulary. I have asked for will have plenty of opportunity to discuss protest and police the report to be concluded in the next fortnight. We will powers during the passage of the Bill, but I would like obviously then update the House in terms of findings to say this: in recent years, we have seen a significant and recommendations. change in protest tactics, which has led to disruption I think it is worth reflecting that in terms of what and also to violence and people’s lives being endangered. happened on Saturday, for approximately eight hours I look forward to the debate with her on this particular there was peace around the bandstand. People were point later on, but she is absolutely wrong in her respectfully paying their respects, laying flowers, grieving characterisation of the measures we are introducing. and showing support and empathy in a way in which every individual would want to in offering their sympathies Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): and condolences. That is why we need to look at the Before I call the next speaker, I just say that I am very review to see effectively what happened operationally, keen to ensure we get everybody in during this important and then if lessons need to be learned, they will be post statement. I ask colleagues to be fairly brief with their the report. questions and their answers as well. 39 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 40 against Women against Women Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con): those who would seek to defund the police and destabilise I will try my best, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Home our society, making it even harder for women to come Secretary rightly said that the right to protest is a forward and report assaults. Will the Home Secretary cornerstone of our democracy but, as she also said, on confirm that nothing will deter the Government from 6 January the House voted for swingeing powers to delivering stronger legislation to protect women and control protests for the period of the coronavirus restrictions. girls from harm? May I ask her to work with concerned Members across the House to ensure that the legislation we are about to Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for the points that pass protects that right of peaceful protest and stops she made. She is absolutely right. We will continue to do only serious disruption? everything in our strategies, policies and laws going forward to protect women and ensure that they are Priti Patel: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. I safeguarded in the right way. She also made the very will continue to engage with all colleagues on this. It is a important point that a peaceful vigil on Saturday turned really important point, and I know how hard it has been into some pretty ugly scenes. We will wait for the report. for many colleagues in the House.Of course,the regulations, There is no question but that where there are lessons to with their implications and the restrictions they have be learned, they will be learned. Where individuals were brought in, will be subject to debate in the House going acting inappropriately, in the way in which she said, that forward. will also be subject to some consideration. Ms (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab): Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab) [V]: First, I would I would like to pay my deepest sympathy and respects to like to put on record my thanks to for their the family of Sarah Everard and her many dismayed incredibly difficult work in the ongoing investigation and grieving friends. I welcome the reopening of the into the tragic death of Sarah Everard. In order to seriously violence against women and girls consultation. It is tackle violence against women and girls, it is vital to put evident that the Home Secretary recognises the genuine women at the heart of legislation. However, in today’s and justified strength of feeling about women’s safety policing Bill, women are not even mentioned. With that that lay behind the vigil on Clapham common, so surely in mind, and with rape convictions at a shocking all-time it was just wrong of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner low, how will the Home Secretary ensure that women to refuse to reach agreement with the organisers and can come forward with confidence that they will be find a way so that the vigil could go ahead safely. believed and that they will receive justice? Does the Home Secretary agree with the Joint Committee on Human Rights that the law on protest during the Priti Patel: If I may, I too would like to thank Kent covid pandemic needs to be clarified so that protests police for all the work they have done in conjunction can go ahead, but do so safely? The Joint Committee with the Metropolitan police in the investigation associated has drafted regulations that will be published with our with the Sarah Everard case. This has been a very report later this week. Will she undertake to consider difficult time across policing; there is no doubt about them seriously with a view to laying them before the that. House? I am not going to come back in detail to those points, because I have covered many already in my statement. I Priti Patel: I thank the right hon. and learned Lady speak with conviction in my determination, as does for her comments. I think everyone across the House every member of this Government, when it comes to has expressed shock, grief and, obviously, concern about safeguarding women and to our strategies and approach the images from Saturday evening. There is no dispute to violence against women and girls. As I have repeatedly there whatsoever. I will, of course, look at the report said, I would welcome all Members joining us in a when it is published and I will be more than happy to cross-party effort to do much more to give women and have discussions with colleagues about it. We are in a girls the confidence to come forward. pandemic, and this has been a very difficult period. It has been difficult for the police as well—I am the first to Sir Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): This House acknowledge that. We have asked the police to do criminalised the freedom of protest. It was this House— unprecedented things, and they have had unprecedented us—not Dame Cressida or the Metropolitan police, powers throughout the pandemic based on the need to who criminalised the freedom to protest collectively. We protect public health. With the incredible work of the are up to our eyeballs in this. Does my right hon. Friend vaccine roll-out, and as we ensure that that carries on the Home Secretary agree that now is the time to smoothly and we move through the Prime Minister’s decriminalise freedom of protest—not tomorrow, not road map and plan of easements, one would now hope next week, but this afternoon or this evening? Let us get that we can work together collectively, yes, to live with people back on the streets and allow them to get things coronavirus but do things differently. off their chest again. Protest is a safety valve. Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con) [V]: I join Priti Patel: I understand entirely the sentiment that colleagues across the House in sending my heartfelt my hon. Friend has emphasised this afternoon. The condolences to Sarah Everard’s loved ones. I am shocked Prime Minister has laid out a road map, and I appreciate at the way in which Saturday night’s vigil was policed. that my hon. Friend would love me to say right now, The situation demanded sensitivity and compassion— “Let’s just do this and change things immediately,” but something which was evidently lacking. But I am also we are still in a pandemic and we are following the shocked that what started as a peaceful and important guidance that has been put in place. Obviously, it will be vigil turned into a protest, with photographs showing subject to debate over the next week or so, and I am ACAB—“all cops are bastards”—signs. I am concerned more than happy to continue to discuss this with my that a young woman’s murder could be hijacked by colleagues. 41 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 42 against Women against Women Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab) [V]: Peaceful this time. Does she agree with me and my constituents assembly must be an absolute right in this country, and that it is frankly absurd for the Labour party to call for the actions of the police on Saturday were deeply troubling. tougher sentences against rapists while, in the same I would like to highlight the use of kettling, in particular. breath, opposing the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Many disabled people and disabled people’s organisations Courts Bill, which delivers exactly that? have long raised concerns about the use of this controversial crowd control tactic, which in the past has been used for Priti Patel: My hon. Friend sums it up perfectly. I up to 10 hours, with serious potential health implications. completely agree with the sentiment she has just expressed. What does the Home Secretary have to say to the many disabled people who fear this disproportionate policy? Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab) [V]: Last week on the Priti Patel: In response to the hon. Lady’s question Armed Forces Committee we heard about prosecuting about operational tactics—of which kettling is one, based crimes, including rape, through the military courts. One on a police assessment around a situation, a protest or statement stood out for me. It was: an event—the police themselves make judgments and “our servicepeople are thoroughly good people, but they drink decisions about the tactics that they use as part of their too much, something goes wrong and they end up in court.” operations. What discussions has the Home Secretary’s Department The hon. Lady raised an important point about disabled had about that attitude towards victims of male violence, people who wish to express themselves by participating and does it reflect a general attitude to women that we in protests. Of course, their needs can be met by working saw on Saturday on Clapham Common? with the police, and many organisers talk to the police about the groups of people and the characteristics of Priti Patel: First, no it does not reflect a general individuals who are coming out to protest. This is not a attitude to women, and no one should pre-judge or one-size-fits-all approach. She will be well aware of the make assumptions of that nature. The hon. Lady makes approach that the police take in engaging with organisers a very important point, though, in terms of the armed over protests. forces work and the work that has taken place across (Newbury) (Con): I would like to put on both Departments. Our Minister with responsibility for record my sympathies to the family and partner of safeguarding has done extensive work on this particular Sarah Everard. issue with our colleagues in the Ministry of Defence and that will of course continue. I thank my right hon. Friend for her statement. In the last few months I have been working with Our Streets Now on the issue of public street harassment: vile and Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) explicit language that is aimed at women with the (Con) [V]: May I express my condolences to Sarah purpose of degrading them. It is often aimed at children— Everard’s friends and family? I thank the Home Secretary schoolgirls. I look forward to my right hon. Friend’s for reopening the VAWG consultation and for requesting strategy later this year, but will she consider, as part of the lessons learned review into Saturday night’s policing. that, introducing legislation that might address the issue? She has shown that she is determined there will be action, not just words. Some 78,000 responses so far is Priti Patel: My hon. Friend raises an important point. absolutely enormous. These are women who do not I have met many schoolgirls who are a part of that have confidence in the system at present and we desperately campaign. We will consider all options as part of the need to instil confidence for them. It will take an VAWG strategy. enormous effort in shifting cultures, coming together and working collectively to make sure we achieve that Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP) [V]: On aim. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that those Sunday, I shed a tear, along with so many other women, women are going to have their voices heard on the at the gates of Queen’s Park, where ribbons and tributes justice taskforce, which looks suspiciously like an all-male had been left in memory of Sarah Everard, and for room? Moira Jones who was raped and murdered there in 2008 and all women who have experienced abuse at the hands Priti Patel: I thank my right hon. Friend for her of men. May I ask what the Home Secretary is going to points, and obviously the importance and significance do to change the toxic culture we have that diminishes of the VAWG consultation and the fact that that has and minimises women’s experience, and to challenge the been reopened. Let me give her an assurance that the whole spectrum of men’s behaviour so that my daughter crime and justice taskforce is not a male show at all. I and all young women can grow up without living their am obviously a part of that, as is the safeguarding lives in fear? Minister. There are many other agencies and parties involved, including the first female Metropolitan police Priti Patel: The hon. Lady has an opportunity to join commissioner, so there are a range of voices. Again, I us. She has heard me speak today, as all colleagues have, urge people not to be too judgmental and assume that about the need to contribute to our VAWG strategy. all the work that takes place in government is just by This is not about the work of one individual; this is men, because it is not. about what we do collectively, together, in terms of cultural norms and a change in behaviours. We all have a role to play and I urge her to join us in that effort. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): Again, just a reminder to colleagues that we need to be Mrs Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con) [V]: quite brief in our questions if we are going to be able to I thank my right hon. Friend for her statement and extend get everybody in, which I want to do. I am sure the way my heartfelt condolences to Sarah Everard’s family at will be led by Kim Johnson. 43 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 44 against Women against Women Kim Johnson (, Riverside) (Lab) [V]: I would Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab) [V]: like to add my thoughts and condolences to the families The tragedy that befell Sarah Everard is a cue for of Sarah Everard, Bibaa Henry, Nicole Smallman and rethinking so much, including readopting and designing all women who have died violently. Does the Home out crime principles in our built environment. As one Secretary agree with me that if you are black, disabled small Asian woman to another, may I ask that in all new or a trans woman you are disproportionately more housing developments, and in the reappraisal of the likely to be a victim of violence? That is not emphasised low-traffic network road changes that are due, consultative in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill. What consideration of women’s safety and fear of crime is steps is she taking to rectify that? mandated, so that appropriate natural surveillance is built in? We must avoid creating nouveaux ghettoes, Priti Patel: We want to prevent anyone from becoming where perceptions leave women trapped and vulnerable. a victim of crime. It should be not just our conviction and determination, but our collective imperative, to Priti Patel: My hon. Friend makes such an important ensure that no one becomes a victim, and particularly and interesting point about designing out crime and anybody from the groups to which the hon. Lady referred. threat, particularly from public spaces. A lot of work is taking place right now to keep the public safe in public places, and that is something we will look at. Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con) [V]: May I, too, send my deepest sympathy to the family and friends Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con) [V]: I have been of Sarah Everard, and I echo the comments made contacted by several constituents in Bosworth who are about the events of Saturday evening? Nobody should concerned about events over the weekend. On one hand feel threatened when on our streets, and the best way to some are concerned about the police’s conduct, and on prevent violence against women and girls is to tackle the the other hand are concerns about mass gatherings root causes of that violence. New Government research during a pandemic. What assessment has my right hon. has identified viewing pornography, particularly violent Friend made about the fact that this is an operational pornography, as an influential factor in harmful sexual issue for the Met, versus the fundamental framework of behaviour towards women and girls. How will my right the law? Taking that forward, will she reassure my hon. Friend reflect that finding in new Government constituents that the Police, Crime, Sentencing and policy? Courts Bill will protect the rights of those protesting and the right of the police to be safe, but also set out the Priti Patel: My right hon. Friend has made a powerful responsibility of those protesting not to cause serious and important point about those behavioural aspects disruption, and that of the police to act proportionately? and their links to pornography. I know she has focused on that issue, and I would very much like to discuss it Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for his questions. with her further as part of our work to protect women He is right in some cases, but I think in the interests of and girls from violence. time, we will come back to some of these points shortly when we discuss the Bill.

Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD) [V]: My heart goes out Dame Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab) [V]: We now live to Sarah Everard’s family and friends during this horrific in a country where domestic violence has soared but time. A year ago on International Women’s Day, I prosecutions have plummeted, where rape has effectively introduced a private Member’s Bill to make misogyny a been decriminalised because prosecutions are at their hate crime. In light of the recent horrific events, and the lowest ever level and where stalking a woman gets a continued failure to prevent violence against women shorter sentence than fly-tipping. This is the record of and girls, will the Government commit to adopt my Bill the Home Secretary and her Government. Is she proud and to end some of the continuing injustices against of it? women? Priti Patel: I refer the hon. Lady to the comments I Priti Patel: The hon. Lady will know that the Law made earlier, including the fact that I disagree with the Commission is considering that area, and its consultation points that she has just made. closed in December. I will work with the House and report back on this whole area, and I will continue to Stella Creasy () (Lab/Co-op) [V]: A quarter work on that with the safeguarding Minister. of all police forces are either already actively recording or trialling recording where crimes are motivated by a hatred of somebody’s sex or gender. Where they do this, (Stourbridge) (Con) [V]: I am proud the police have better intelligence to track and prevent of a Government who, since 2010, have put women’s violence against women and women report more confidence safety at the heart of their policymaking. Does my right in coming forward to report assaults and harassment. hon. Friend agree that our landmark Domestic Abuse Will the Home Secretary and her Government drop Bill puts women at the front and centre of this Government’s their opposition to amendment 87B to the Domestic policymaking when it comes to tackling violence against Abuse Bill tonight in the House of Lords in order to women and girls? require that all police forces follow this best practice in England and Wales? That will finally put us on the road Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is right, and I again pay to equalising misogyny as a hate crime, as it should be. tribute to everybody who has worked on that landmark Bill, which will lead to the protection of more women Priti Patel: The hon. Lady will have to follow the and children from domestic violence. We want the Bill debate in the other place later on. As she will well know, to receive Royal Assent. there is extensive debate and discussion on this issue. 45 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 Policing and Prevention of Violence 46 against Women against Women (North Devon) (Con) [V]: I would also and that like to add my condolences to the family and friends of “it is difficult to see how” Sarah Everard. Does my right hon. Friend agree that outdoor events the Domestic Abuse Bill showcases this Government’s “can cause a spike.” commitment to protecting and listening to victims of domestic abuse, who are mostly women, so that we can So public health was not really the primary, driving tackle this abhorrent crime effectively? That goes alongside factor, but even if we do accept that some of the the increased funding we have given to organisations restrictions were needed to safeguard public health, as a such as North Devon Against Domestic Abuse in my Parliament—as a defender of free speech—we need to constituency, which does so much to support the victims be careful about restricting the rights of people to of this dreadful abuse. express their views. Saturday showed us the mess of not allowing people to organise properly and what happens Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I when the police are confused about their powers. The will not go through the measures I touched on earlier. general public did not vote to have their democracy Clearly, the Domestic Abuse Bill is a landmark Bill that removed and their voice silenced. Can I ask the Home will absolutely change outcomes on domestic abuse and Secretary who she is consulting when suggesting additional, increase support to women who have been victims of it. draconian police powers? Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab) Priti Patel: I refer the hon. Lady to comments that I [V]: My thoughts are also with the family and friends of have made extensively this afternoon about covid Sarah Everard at this desperately sad time. On the same restrictions, but also the fact that, when it came to the day that the suspect in the Sarah Everard investigation events on Saturday—the vigil—extensive dialogue had was arrested, UN Women published survey results showing taken place between the Metropolitan police and the that 97% of women aged 18 to 24 have experienced organisers. sexual harassment. While we wait for the reviews and investigations into the events of Saturday night, will the James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): I know the Home Secretary work with the Metropolitan police to Home Secretary will agree that there are very many mandate that every officer serving undertakes training serious questions to be answered about the policing of on misogyny and sexual harassment so that young women the vigil on Clapham common on Saturday evening. living in London have confidence that their concerns However, does she not also agree that it is quite wrong will be taken seriously and that they will receive an to conflate that with the perfectly reasonable provisions appropriate response from the police when reporting in the Bill that will be debated later this afternoon, this aggression, which causes women everywhere to be which will prevent disruptive protests of all kinds that fearful every day in our streets and public spaces? prevent people from coming into Parliament, ambulances from getting on their way and ordinary people from Priti Patel: When it comes to police training, I think going about their everyday business? That is a completely it is important to reflect on a lot of the work that is different matter and the two should not be conflated. already under way across all police forces, not just the Metropolitan police force. The College of Policing has Priti Patel: That is absolutely right, and I thank my extensive work taking place in this area, which is also hon. Friend for his point and comments. There is, subject to a lot of the work that takes place at the conveniently, far too much conflation taking place when Board. it comes to examples of protest. This will be subject to debate later today during the passage of the Bill, but he David Johnston (Wantage) (Con) [V]: I also extend is absolutely correct on that. my deepest condolences to Sarah Everard’s friends and family. Does my right hon. Friend agree that preventing Joanna Cherry ( South West) (SNP) [V]: violence against women is partly about what we do with Much of the debate over the last few days has focused boys? That means teaching them that what is often on how we secure women’s safety in the public domain. depicted on TV, online and in video games is not Does the Home Secretary agree that it is equally important acceptable behaviour, as well as simply restricting what that Government policy secures women’s safety in private they see through the forthcoming online harms Bill. settings, including women’s refuges? And does she agree that Government should prioritise upholding single-sex Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and spaces, services, provision and roles for women and girls that is another Bill that will come to the House in due where single-sex provision is permitted under the Equality course. This is about cultural aspects and the behaviours Act 2010? we inculcate in our children, including how our boys grow up and the things they are exposed to. This will be Priti Patel: The hon. and learned Lady makes important subject to much discussion and we welcome the views of points about violence that takes place at home and the my hon. Friend and others in the consultation we have need to safeguard women. This is exactly what this just reopened. Government have been doing—particularly over the now soon to be 12 months under coronavirus and this (Brent Central) (Lab) [V]: I send my pandemic—through the money that we have been putting deepest condolences to Sarah Everard’s loved ones and in place for refuges and providing support, but also by all those who have lost loved ones to violence, including giving awareness and places where people can go to Bibaa Henry’s and Nicole Smallman’s loved ones, who demonstrate, express themselves or let the police know have been really struggling recently. Sir that they have been a victim of abuse. This work will said that continue. It is so important, and I should conclude by “it is clear in the SAGE papers…that outdoors is much lower risk saying that as we unlock through the road map on than indoors” coronavirus, we should be prepared for more people to 47 Policing and Prevention of Violence 15 MARCH 2021 48 against Women [Priti Patel] National Bus Strategy: England raise some unpleasant experiences that they have had, and they will be supported through policing and by this 5.6 pm Government. The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps): I would like to make a statement about bus services. Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab) Britain is often described as a railway nation, but if we [V]: Homicide rates among women have shot up under have a national form of public transport, it is definitely this Government. The impact of Sarah Everard’s murder the bus, carrying more than 4 billion passengers a year is devastating in Hornsey and Wood Green, where hundreds in England—more than twice as many as rail—over a of women, men and teenagers from all corners of my vast network. No other type of public transport comes constituency have written in to express their grief and close for convenience, affordability and popularity. If anger. What urgent action will the Home Secretary take anyone needs persuading of the bus’s value, surely the to convince us that they take violence against women 2020 experience has provided us with the evidence we and girls seriously? Until there is a credible response, I need. Without buses operating day and night, many key am putting the Home Secretary on notice that women workers would have been unable to get to work, so we in Hornsey and Wood Green will not be patronised and owe a debt of gratitude to the bus industry and, in silenced. particular, to the magnificent bus drivers for keeping this country moving. Priti Patel: No one should be patronised or silenced, which is why we have reopened the VAWG consultation, Covid has shown that buses provide Britain with far and 78,000 people have responded since 6 pm on Friday more than just a means of travel. There are a lifeline for evening. I urge others to come forward as well. Perhaps millions. In normal times, they help students to get to the hon. Lady would also like to encourage her constituents college, they help those without work to attend job to do so. There is much more work that we can do interviews, they help the elderly to get to the shops and they help us all to get about. They are crucial for the collectively to drive better outcomes to stop violence survival of our high streets, for rural businesses and for against women and girls. the planet, too. For many disabled people, they can be an accessible way to stay mobile. In all these ways, buses Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I are not just an industry but almost a social service. thank the Home Secretary for her statement. We will Fundamentally, they help us to level up the country. have a two-minute suspension to allow for the necessary arrangements for the next business. Buses can and should also be the transport of choice, in my view. London, Brighton and Harrogate have 5.4 pm already proved this, with frequent modern services and dedicated lanes attracting millions of journeys a year Sitting suspended. from the private car. We want to do that everywhere throughout the country, yet in most regions outside London services have been in decline for decades.Successive Governments before this one have failed to prioritise buses, either with sufficient investment or with a workable plan. That is why this Government are taking action to revitalise bus services, and why today we have published the national bus strategy for England outside of London, with its bold vision for the industry to reform the way it has managed to deliver tangible benefits for passengers, and this is all backed by £3 billion of Government investment. Covid has hit the bus sector hard, as it has all transport, but it is also provided an opportunity to put better bus services at the heart of the community. Throughout 2020, bus companies and councils have had to co-operate as never before to keep services running for key workers. Now we want to harness the same sense of partnership and change the way the industry fundamentally works by putting the passenger and the environment first. Passengers want simpler fares, more routes and services, easier information and greener buses, and this bus strategy reflects people’s lives. In cities and towns, this means that travelling when we want and where we want becomes easy to do on a bus. We expect councils and operators to bring in simple, cheap flat fares with contactless payment by card or by phone. Up-to-date information should be available immediately on our phones, on board the buses and at bus stops. We want closer integration of services and ticketing across all forms of public transport, so that people can seamlessly travel from buses to trams 49 National Bus Strategy: England15 MARCH 2021 National Bus Strategy: England 50 to trains and we end the absurd situation where different fleet is fully zero-emission today, so after our historic operators do not recognise or accept each other’s tickets. move to end the sale of petrol and diesel cars and vans We want to have much more of the “turn up and go” by 2030, this bus strategy sets out our plans to end the type of service—the kind of frequency that means you sale of new diesel buses in England too. We have do not even have to look at the timetable before you get launched a consultation to decide how and when that on the bus—and more services in the evening and at will happen. weekends. This strategy marks a new beginning for buses. We will In rural areas and out-of-town business parks, we not only stop the decline that has been going on historically sometimes need to be able to provide buses that are for decade after decade; we want to reverse it by making available on demand from an app on your phone. buses a natural choice for everyone, not just for those Today,I am pleased to announce £20 million of investment without any other travel options, and we want to put from our rural mobility fund to trial on-demand services the passenger first. We want to build the stronger road in 17 different locations, including minibuses booked partnerships that I have been talking about by channelling via an app that people pick near their home at a time £3 billion into better services. Such a sum has never that is convenient to them. been seen before in respect of bus investment and will I want anyone who happens to be disabled to be able help us to transform buses throughout England and, by to confidently travel when and where they want, so this doing so, to transform our country, too. I commend this bus strategy will make sure that all local services have statement to the House. audible and visible “next stop” announcements. We will consult this year on improving access to wheelchair 5.15 pm space and priority seating for those who rely on them. A series of new bus passenger charters will define precisely Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Royton) (Lab/Co-op): what all bus users can expect in their particular areas. I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. I also thank those in the bus and local public Before covid, the way in which buses were organised transport industries for the work they have done, over made it hard to arrest the decline in bus ridership—a the course of a very difficult year, to make sure that our decline that has been going on since the 1960s. The country can keep on moving. pandemic has brought councils and the industry together, and we want every local transport authority in the This strategy should have been used to revolutionise country and its bus operators to be in statutory enhanced the bus industry, but I am afraid it lacks ambition and partnerships or in franchising arrangements throughout. does not even touch the sides of the cuts and rocketing The franchising system is used in London. For example, prices that passengers have witnessed over the past Transport for London sets the routes and the fares, but decade. It should have been used to ensure that funds that will not be appropriate everywhere. That is why were properly directed to deliver a radical transition to enhanced partnerships will be required, whereby the a zero-emission fleet—something that the Prime Minister operators and the councils reach negotiated agreements promised more than a year ago—and to create new on how buses will run, with local authorities taking green jobs in the bus and coach sector, to give operators greater responsibility for bus services, whichever solution and manufacturers the boost that they so badly need. they choose. Let us look beyond the headlines. The Secretary of By 30 June this year, we want all local authorities to State says that he wants buses to become more frequent, commit to one of those two options, with the bus operators’ cheaper and greener. First, on buses being more frequent, support. We will need that commitment if they are to the reality is that this Government have overseen the receive further emergency funding from the covid bus loss of 134 million miles of bus routes over the past services support grant. I can confidently predict that decade, and some 3,000 local authority-supported bus they will all be on board. Local authorities, in collaboration services have been cut over the same period. In every with operators, will then produce bus service improvement year since 2010—year on year—passenger journeys outside plans by the end of October this year. of London have fallen. It is the Secretary of State’s These plans are pretty ambitious. By looking at the Government who have made bus journeys less frequent best bus services around the world and striving to in the first place. How will he ensure, specifically, that match them, we expect to see how bus priority can best there are not just a few more services on routes that are work without increasing congestion. We want to create already well served, but a reversal of the 3,000 bus cuts plans for fares and ticketing, and we want to see how that we have seen over the past decade? How many of they will deliver urban, town and rural users to the bus the 134 million bus miles lost will be returned by this network. Future Government financial support will investment? depend on local authorities and operators coming together On the second test, in respect of buses being cheaper, under an enhanced partnership or franchising agreement. the Office for National Statistics has reported that in For our part, we will work with councils to introduce January bus inflation was up by 21% on the previous bus priority schemes this year, and we will roll out year. Although a price cap is welcome, the cost of marketing to attract millions of new passengers to the transport is already forcing people off buses. What will network—people who have never used buses before. the Secretary of State do to make sure not just that fares The strategy also sets out our road map to a zero-emission will not rise disproportionately in future, but that they bus fleet. Bus operators have invested £1.3 billion in will be brought down to a reasonable level that people greener buses over the last five years, which has been can afford, so that they will choose to travel by bus? supported by £89 million of Government investment, The final test is for transport to be greener. It is more and we will commit to delivering 4,000 zero-emission than a year since the Government promised 4,000 zero- buses. I expect to release funding for the first all-electric emission buses, but they have not even started yet. bus city very soon. However, only 2% of England’s bus That is nowhere near ambitious enough when we consider 51 National Bus Strategy: England15 MARCH 2021 National Bus Strategy: England 52

[Jim McMahon] must say, it was expanded under the previous one—and has ensured that buses are clean and reliable, and that that there are 32,000 buses in England alone. Even with people do not even need a timetable. He asked about the a one-to-one replacement, that could leave more than reliability and regularity of services; that is what we 28,000 buses that are not zero-emission. Incidentally, want to get to. We also would not be putting £3 billion many of them will be serving areas that are being in if we did not expect, as the bus strategy says, to make considered for clean air zones because of deadly levels buses more affordable. It is central to our vision that of pollution. they are not just practical, but the affordable means of It is a year since we were promised a transport transport. revolution, and it has been a year of reannouncements. I hear what the hon. Gentleman said about greening Although the pandemic can be blamed for some of the up the bus network. I am as enthusiastic as him; he fall in passenger numbers we have seen, the Secretary of knows that I am—I drive an electric car and I want to State knows full well that the past decade has really see our transport system decarbonised. He mentioned weakened the foundations of bus services in this country. that we announced a year ago our ambition to have Let me turn to another announcement: council and 4,000 electric buses. He is absolutely right that that is operator partnerships. Councils throughout the country what we wrote in our manifesto. As he would expect, we face a budget black hole of £15 billion, and this are delivering on that. The £120 million mentioned in announcement, which throws in even more responsibility the bus strategy today will go towards the first 800 of without funding in place, could weaken their position those buses. That comes on top of money that has even further. Like many, I back the extension of London- already been invested by the industry in creating more style franchise powers throughout the country, and I electric buses. We are starting to see those buses on the sincerely hope that once the announcement is put into road, including—I think I am right in saying—a couple practice, that will be the reality for passengers throughout of thousand in London, as well as elsewhere in the the country. I also support councils that want to do it country. It is starting to happen and we are going to themselves, which is why we back the establishment of ensure that we meet our manifesto commitment of municipalbuscompanies—incidentally,somethingoutlawed delivering 4,000 by the end of this Parliament. by this Government in 2017. The Government have Finally, the hon. Gentleman mentioned municipal indicated that that may well be revisited, but my question bus services. I am not living in some world where I think to the Secretary of State is, why wait? there is only one way to do this. That is why we are It is clear that we drastically need a bus service that is talking about bus franchising and enhanced partnerships. fit for the future, yet until we see those measures on the He will be interested to know that the service in my ground we cannot even begin to claim to be ambitious area, though not a municipal bus operation, is actually and to have a green bus strategy that meets the demands run by the local university,the University of , of local people and the immediate post-pandemic needs which owns a bus company called Uno. That is the kind of the industry, or that addresses the huge challenge of of creative idea that we want to see developed by the stopping climate change and meeting our objectives. national bus strategy.The hon. Gentleman’slocal authority, The real legacy of this Government is laid bare for all to every other local authority and all Members in this see: the loss of key routes; rocketing ticket prices; and House will have the opportunity to ensure that their just 2% of the bus fleet zero-emission vehicles. It is on local area is able to deliver against the bus strategy to that record that the Government will be judged. improve services for everybody in a way of which he would approve. Grant Shapps: Predictably, the hon. Gentleman is not entirely satisfied. He said that the investment should (Bexhill and Battle) (Con) [V]: I have been bigger and that we should have been investing warmly welcome the bus strategy, and thank the Secretary more in zero carbon, and he criticised many other of State and the Buses Minister, Baroness Vere, for aspects of the strategy. In fact, we did not even need to taking ideas in. The Secretary of State is right to look at wait for the bus strategy,because he issued his press release best practice by local authorities; he mentioned Brighton. to tell us all this ahead of time—before the strategy was What can we do to ensure that best practice becomes even out and before he could possibly have known what normal practice, and what more investment can be was in it. I hope that he has now had the opportunity to given to local authorities to ensure that there is a buses read it. If he has, he will have seen that it is an extremely champion in each local transport authority? ambitious plan. It is the most ambitious plan to change our buses from any Government right the way back to Grant Shapps: I warmly welcome my hon. Friend’s the 1980s. contribution to this debate, not just with the point he It is not as if the 1980s were the start of the decline; I has just made in this Chamber, but in his work with the think I am right in saying that we saw a decline in bus Transport Committee in pushing for a bus strategy, ridership from the ’60s onwards, from about 15.5 billion which we are proud to deliver today.He asked specifically down to 5.5 billion. We know that people have switched about how he can shape that and about local authorities. to cars in that period of time, which is why this bus We are giving £25 million to local authorities to come strategy is so ambitious and is trying to hold no punches up with this plan by 31 October, and we expect every in saying, “We need to realign the way we operate. We local authority in the country to be part of that. Not need to ensure that buses are more convenient and only that, but we want Members in this House to work therefore more reliable. When they are, people are much with their local authorities, as I have done with the more likely to take them.” As the hon. Gentleman Beeching reversal plan, which has been very popular. rightly said, that is a formula that has operated very MPs have helped to lead that, and I expect that my hon. well in London under successive Mayors—although, I Friend will want to do that in his area as well. 53 National Bus Strategy: England15 MARCH 2021 National Bus Strategy: England 54

Gavin Newlands (Paisley and North) a unified bus franchise; the main bus services to (SNP) [V]: Let me start by thanking the Secretary of Huddersfield are run by Yorkshire Tiger, a different State for prior sight of his statement, and by welcoming franchise from Arriva’s Metro franchise, which is the both the tacit admission that decades of bus deregulation main operator in Wakefield, and this means that tickets has failed and the long awaited publication of the national are not transferable. I know our fantastic West Yorkshire bus strategy for England, which the Prime Minister has mayoral candidate Matt Robinson is championing this billed as a revolution. The only problem is that revolutions issue. Will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State are usually fairly quick affairs, whereas we have been outline what steps will be taken to unify these bus waiting a year for this strategy and it might take another franchises and provide West Yorkshire with an integrated, year for the various consultations to run their course. London-style bus system? Bus services are, of course, devolved, but as I have said Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, as many times in this place, the bus manufacturing sector is Matt Robinson. People want to be able to jump on a is on its knees—hundreds of jobs have already gone. We bus, jump off another one and get on a third one, are lucky to have three world-class bus manufacturing regardless of which company happens to be running companies in Switch, Wrightbus and, in particular, them, and for them to be integrated with rail services Alexander Dennis, but we have yet to see a penny of the and, where relevant, trams as well. That is very much at £3 billion committed last spring, and in the past 12 months the heart of our plan. He will be pleased to learn that almost no zero-emission buses have been delivered outside the bus strategy requires and insists that local authorities London or Scotland. Very shortly, there will be more come up with a plan that allows people to buy a ticket zero-emission buses in the town of Kilmarnock than that they can use many times, with a cap so that they are anywhere outside London. The Scottish Government not overcharged for making many journeys. have gone on with the job, with their Scottish ultra-low emission bus schemes, which are extremely popular with Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD) [V]: Like other both operators and manufacturers. With those schemes Members, I welcome the release of “Bus Back Better” having shown just how quickly domestic demand for and many of the provisions contained in it, but why new, green, British-built vehicles can be stimulated in does the Secretary of State commit himself to review the about six-month lead time for manufacturing, how only the part of the Bus Services Act 2017 that prohibits will the Government ensure that their commitment to local authority ownership when the strategy highlights 4,000 green buses actually results in new vehicles being so many great examples of good practice? Why can he delivered this calendar year, not next year or the year not go further and scrap those provisions? after? Grant Shapps: I welcome the hon. Lady’s welcoming The Prime Minister spoke of getting young people on the strategy. She mentions the Bus Services Act 2017 to buses, an aspiration shared by the Scottish Government, and—we have already had an exchange on this—the who have just committed to providing free bus transport extent to which local authorities can run bus services. to all under-22s as part of a plan to encourage lifelong She should know that I do not mind who runs these public transport habits—that is action, not words. Will services: I just want them to run properly. I want the Minister commit to a similar policy in England? passengers to be able to get the buses when they need Scotland has led the way in transport decarbonisation them, where they need them, and as efficiently as possible. in the UK, but we must do more, so will he confirm that I will look at all these matters in the context of what 100% of the funding provided for the strategy will be delivers the best services, and nothing else. Barnettised? Will he put a precise figure and timescale on it? Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab) [V]: As chair of the all-party motor group, which includes Grant Shapps: I welcome what I think was a warm responsibility for all vehicle manufacturers, I am concerned welcome to the idea of the English bus strategy. With all about the UK bus and coach industry,including companies these things, I like to work in co-operation and make such as Alexander Dennis and Wrightbus. The sector them work for the whole of the United Kingdom. That has seen a loss of 1,000 jobs in the past year. Why has it is why,for example, I put money into dustcarts in Glasgow taken so long to introduce this plan, given that it is that are hydrogen-run. I believe there are a dozen of almost four years since I drove an electric bus here in them doing fantastic work and helping to develop the Warwick and Leamington at the headquarters of Volvo hydrogen economy. It is not quite as straightforward as Bus and Coach Sales? The products were there four the hon. Gentleman makes out; we all know that we can years ago—why have they not been adopted earlier? produce a hydrogen vehicle, but we also have to produce the hydrogen in a green enough way so that it is not in Grant Shapps: Like the hon. Gentleman, I am a keen itself a polluting activity. A whole supply line is required follower of electric technology, particularly in the heavier for that, which is why in England I have assigned vehicles. Although electric cars have proved themselves Teesside as the first hydrogen hub in the country, in and we are seeing a large number on the road, bigger order to help bring all those technologies together for vehicles still have issues of weight of battery versus all the different forms of transport. range and therefore availability, so in part it is the technological side that needs resolving. A lot of money I want to answer one question directly: the Barnett is being invested in zero-carbon buses—we are not formula is attached to this, and the moneys will flow saying that they have to be electric or hydrogen. I think from that in the normal way. he will be very pleased to hear the zero-carbon city announcements that I will be making shortly. Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con) [V]: I warmly welcome the Government’s ambitious new bus strategy, Dr Neil Hudson (Penrith and The Border) (Con) [V]: which will be critical in improving West Yorkshire’s I very much welcome the bus strategy, which will make connectivity. A key issue facing Wakefield is the lack of a huge difference to rural communities such as Penrith 55 National Bus Strategy: England15 MARCH 2021 National Bus Strategy: England 56

[Dr Neil Hudson] look at trying to remove some of the time-consuming barriers to getting that franchising that local transport and The Border. Rural buses are a lifeline to many as authorities have to go through? Finally, when it comes they are so important for connecting communities in to reforming the grant system, will he ensure that the our large geographical area. Does my right hon. Friend money is actually paid to the local transport authorities agree that it is essential that Cumbria County Council so that it can be spent in line with local priorities? makes full use of these Government funds and should work together with bus operators to make more routes Grant Shapps: Let me take that in reverse order. The viable and improve our local services, thereby assisting hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that there are times in the fight against rural isolation? when it would make a lot more sense for the money to go to the local authorities. However, for the sake of Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is absolutely right speed during this crisis, I have not wanted to add about that. He will be interested to hear that part of this further complications, as the bus support grant has strategy is £20 million for rural bus services to try out been literally a lifeline to various areas. This strategy different approaches. I am pleased to say that of the will enable more work on the suggestions that he makes. 17 local authorities that are being provided with some With regard to franchising, and on his first point, we of that money, Cumbria County Council is due to get can talk about what happened in 1986, some 37 years £1.5 million. I hope that he will work with it to deliver ago, or we can talk about the future. This bus strategy better services for all his constituents. and I want to talk about the future. LloydRussell-Moyle(Brighton,Kemptown)(Lab/Co-op): () (Con) [V]: I welcome the I welcome any strategy that will continue to support steps outlined in the bus strategy to help operators and buses. I also welcome the Secretary of State’s mentioning local authorities deliver frequent, more reliable,easier-to-use Brighton several times. Brighton & Hove Buses might services. More comprehensive bus services will be needed, be in private hands but it is still run with the ethos of a especially in rural areas such as East Devon, to protect municipal bus service. We would love to have a hydrogen both socially necessary and economically necessary routes hub in our area, in either the port of Newhaven or and services. What plans does my right hon. Friend Shoreham. Can he reassure me about cross-border services have to help people get the bus to work any time of day? and ensure that there is a duty for local authorities to co-operate so that pricing does not jump about and we Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is right to point out can have through pricing between authorities? that, particularly in rural areas such as East Devon and in many other parts of the country, the social value of a Grant Shapps: The hon. Gentleman makes good points. route is often missed by the current formulas. That is I am very keen that crossing over some usually totally one reason why, with this bus strategy, we have launched invisible line between one local authority and the other a £20 million fund to develop rural services that work does not mean that the service stops and tickets run out. better. A lot of that is about making sure that, to have He is absolutely right. I will be paying special attention that certainty, the service is more regular and is funded, to that issue in various different local authorities’ plans even at times when it requires public support to be in October. funded. There are other innovative ideas, including, for example, having buses available on demand. People are James Daly (Bury North) (Con) [V]: I warmly welcome used to using an app to call a taxi. Why should they not my right hon. Friend’s announcement. Earlier in this be able to do that to have a bus route go via them in Parliament, working with my right hon. Friend the Prime order to get to where they want to go? There are many Minister and other Conservative colleagues, we secured very innovative ideas, which will be very applicable in funding to save the X41 bus service running between rural areas as well. Ramsbottom and central Manchester. Will he confirm that Bury Council, Transport for Greater Manchester Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): As the Member and bus operators will have access to further moneys of Parliament whose constituency includes the Wrightbus and support under this strategy, ensuring that everyone factory, which has carried out pioneering work—it was in Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottington have access to the first to produce the hydrogen bus for the UK and high-class bus services together with an increased number the battery diesel bus—I have been pushing the Prime of routes? Minister on this for some time. I welcome the statement and the plans to buy British-made buses, but there are Grant Shapps: I can certainly confirm that this bus many shovel-ready projects available for zero-emission strategy is very much in line with the type of thing that buses across the UK. Under the current plans, the my hon. Friend and his residents in Ramsbottom and roll-out will not be until 2022? What are we waiting for? elsewhere want to see happen with the X41 bus. It is Why cannot we get on with it? I hope that the Secretary very important that we join all this back together, and of State will tell his officials that they have a mission to that people can reliably get these buses in the evening, get this money out the door, to get it into shovel-ready back out of towns and cities to the more outlying areas. projects, and to buy British buses without any further I do not think that he will be disappointed with what he delay. reads today. Grant Shapps: I share the hon. Gentleman’s impatience, Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab) [V]: I but the money is for this year. That £120 million for those welcome many aspects of this statement today and say zero-carbon buses is to be spent on the introduction of to the Secretary of State that he has effectively delivered those first buses for this year, so I do not recognise any the obituary for the failed deregulation of bus services particular reason to delay. We are in touch with all the outside London. Given that there will be a local choice bus manufacturers, and we wish them well in their between enhanced partnerships and franchising, will he progress. 57 National Bus Strategy: England15 MARCH 2021 National Bus Strategy: England 58

Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con): I but we know that phrase is a smokescreen for gifting warmly welcome the national bus strategy as another money to areas that do not need it but happen to have a key spoke of the levelling up agenda alongside lifelong Tory MP.Will the Secretary of State tell us what criteria learning, the levelling-up fund and transport more generally. will be applied to ensure that this £3 billion is shared This is really about delivery, not dogma, and I am glad fairly among our regions? to see the options available for local authorities as well as the integrated and social nature of some of the Grant Shapps: First of all, I agree, and I just said, that funding available. Will the Secretary of State assure me London has been getting a very nice bite of the cherry that he will look at services in places in my constituency with its buses, and we want the rest of the country to get such as Burnhope and Weardale, which really need the same. That is the point of launching this strategy. I extra bus services later in the evenings, for potential am afraid that I do not recognise the second point that pilot schemes? the hon. Member made. She may be getting confused by the fact that hard-working great MPs who lobby for Grant Shapps: One of the biggest points about buses their local areas may just end up being successful in is that people want to be able to get them in the evening bringing services to their area. I have no doubt that she and at the weekend. When people go somewhere to will join her area to that list as well. meet with somebody—those days will come again—buses should not just stop so they cannot get a bus home. Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): Many rural That is exactly when they are needed to run. There is communities rely on bus services provided by small, new hope for my hon. Friend’s constituents in Burnhope often family-run businesses such as Stanley Travel in my and Weardale in this bus strategy. constituency, who have found it hard during covid because they do not have the resource to capital that Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab): Spending some larger companies have. What specific help will be on bus services in London is £60 higher per person than available to such companies to ensure that they not only it is in South Yorkshire, where we have seen funding fall survive but that those important local bus services by 40% in the last decade. Any strategy is welcome, but continue? what we really need is investment. What funding can our region expect and by when? Grant Shapps: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. As ever with the coronavirus, those small companies Grant Shapps: The hon. Lady is absolutely right. have had a tough time. It is worth mentioning that we That is almost the fundamental point of the strategy. put £240 million, and then £27 million a week, into We recognise that London gets fantastic bus services, supporting buses, so we have been pumping in a lot of and we want the rest of the country to get some of it as money without which those services would not have well. The share is of £3 billion. I cannot give her the been able to survive at all. Of course, individual smaller precise figures today, but I look forward to her local companies will have had access to things like furlough. authority’s doing the work and coming back to me. By The strategy overall is the sunlight at the end of this, October, we should have numbers to talk about. because for the first time there will be a proper strategy that he and his local authority will be able to oversee. I () (Con) [V]: I am am sure that there will be great opportunities for some hugely excited about the opportunities that today’s of the smaller bus companies as well. announcement bring. However, when I have previously shared initiatives from the , (North West ) (Con) [V]: Buses the comments page underneath has said something provide a lifeline for people in North West Norfolk, but along the lines of, “I’d settle for a bus from Hesketh rural areas have seen greater reductions in services. Bank to Tarleton.” Will the Secretary of State give me Will my right hon. Friend ensure that Norfolk gets a and the people of South Ribble the confidence that fair share of this welcome new funding to not only communities, businesses, educational establishments and rebuild but enhance services, with later buses and new industry will be able to input their needs to transform links, as well as capital for improvements to speed up Lancashire’s bus services? journeys alongside the coast?

Grant Shapps: That is absolutely right. I will say how Grant Shapps: Yes I will. I have no doubt that my I want this to work. I want Members in this House to hon. Friend will fight for his constituents and his area. have real input into it. Therefore, as a plan is being By hooking up with the local authority and working developed by a local authority, MPs should be on the with it, we will have a very good look at the investment authority’s shoulders, looking over and making sure strategy that it puts together to ensure that he enjoys that the new business park is included—or indeed anybody much better services in the future than his constituents who lives in Hesketh Bank and Tarleton—to ensure have in the past. that they get their services. It will be for local Members to ensure that that happens. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I thank the Secretary of State for his statement. We will Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab) [V]: have a short suspension to make arrangements for the The north-east has suffered from under-investment in next business. transport for too long. In 2019, it was revealed that over £3,600 of spend was planned per head for London and just over £500 per head for the north-east. The Prime 5.45 pm Minister has said the strategy is an act of levelling up, Sitting suspended. 59 15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 60

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill whether paid or as volunteers, and their families. The covenant will initially focus on physical protection and support for families, officers and staff, and their health [1ST ALLOCATED DAY] and wellbeing, with a duty to report in place to ensure Second Reading parliamentary scrutiny. Despite all that they do, emergency workers are still Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): subject to violence and abuse. The statistics paint an Before I call the Home Secretary, I want to remind the alarming picture. There were more than 30,000 assaults House of what was said earlier regarding the Sarah on police officers in the year to March 2020, and over Everard case. Charges have now been brought in that the past year we have all seen the reports of people case. The sub judice resolution does not apply formally deliberately coughing at our emergency workers, claiming when the House is legislating. However, I would urge all to have coronavirus and threatening to infect them. Members to exercise caution and not say anything There have been too many disgusting examples of police about the detail of the case or the identity of those officers and ambulance drivers being spat at and violently against whom charges have been brought that might attacked as they go out to work day after day to make affect any subsequent court case. sure that the rest of us are safe and cared for.

5.49 pm (Dartford) (Con): This Bill doubles The Secretary of State for the Home Department the maximum sentence for an assault on emergency (Priti Patel): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a workers. Does the Home Secretary therefore share my Second time. astonishment at the irony that the Labour party will Just one week after celebrating the achievement of now be voting against that provision? women around the world on International Women’s Day, I would like to open this debate by once again Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Having expressing my sadness at the horrific developments in personally spent much time with our frontline officers, the Sarah Everard case. My heartfelt thoughts and the very people who put themselves in harm’s way to prayers are with Sarah, her family and friends at this keep us safe, I think that is a really stark point, and a unbearable time. This is also a stark moment to reflect reminder of which party is backing the police and on what more we can do to protect women and girls which party simply is not. against crime, and the events of the last few days have rightly ignited anger at the danger posed to women by (Rhondda) (Lab): Will the Home Secretary predatory men—an anger I feel as strongly as anyone. give way? This Government were elected just over a year ago on a clear manifesto commitment to support the police Priti Patel: I will in just a second. and to keep our country safe. It is vital that we continue Having personally spent time with those on the frontline, to deliver on that promise to the British people, and our I have also seen the impact of these incidents on officers commitment to law and order is having a real impact and on their families. We cannot tolerate such acts, which across the country.There are already over 6,600 more police is why the punishment must fit the crime, and the Bill officers in our communities, thanks to the unprecedented will double the maximum penalty for assaults on emergency campaign to recruit an additional 20,000 more police workers from 12 months’ to two years’ imprisonment. officers. Our crackdown on county line drug gangs is delivering results,particularly in London, the west midlands Chris Bryant: I urge the Home Secretary not to play and . The police have made more than 3,400 party politics with this particular bit. I introduced, as a arrests,shut down more than 550 deal lines and safeguarded private Member’s Bill, the legislation that she is acting more than 770 vulnerable people. Last year, we saw the on, and at the time I argued very strongly in favour of UK’s biggest ever law enforcement operation strike a two years being the maximum sentence. I was dissuaded blow against organised crime, with over 1,000 arrests, by the right hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Dominic £54 million of criminal cash seized, and 77 firearms and Raab), who is now the ; by the right over two tonnes of drugs seized. The Police, Crime, hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), the former Sentencing and Courts Bill will go further still in our Home Secretary; and by a lot of Conservative MPs, mission to back the police, to make our communities who did not want to support the legislation at all. safe and to restore confidence in the criminal justice I need to be persuaded that the Government have system. used the legislation that is on the statute book at present. We ask our brave police officers to do the most For instance, the Home Secretary refers, quite rightly, difficult of jobs—they run towards danger to keep us all to people spitting at police officers. It is disgusting and safe—and that is why I have worked closely with the it is a form of assault, but unfortunately the sentencing Police Federation in developing this Bill. I would like to guidelines still have not been updated since the introduction pay tribute to the chair of the Police Federation, John of my legislation to make sure that spitting is an aggravating Apter, for his constructive way of working since I factor and will be treated as an offence. became Home Secretary, admirably fighting for his members every single day. He has voiced his members’ Priti Patel: There are many important points that I concerns to me directly, and I have acted upon them. would be happy to debate about the police covenant This Bill will enshrine in law a requirement to report and giving our police officers—the frontline men and annually to Parliament on the police covenant, which women who keep us safe day in, day out—the protection sets out our commitment to enhance support and protection that they and their family members deserve. The hon. for those working within or retired from policing roles, Gentleman is right about the sentencing structure and 61 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 62 guidance, but we have had support from the Crown Policing Act 2014, to ensure that we enshrine in law your Prosecution Service regarding the assaults that I have ability, Madam Deputy Speaker, my ability, or anybody’s referred to, particularly over the last few months in ability to insult people and cause offence. Thinking relation to coronavirus, when we have seen spitting and particularly of clause 59, will my right hon. Friend assaults on officers. assure me that nothing in the Bill will have a chilling This Bill is a criminal justice Bill as much as a effect on the right to debate and, if necessary, cause policing Bill. It is an end-to-end Bill to ensure that the offence? sentence fits the assault and the crime. The Bill will double the maximum penalty for assaults on emergency Priti Patel: When it comes to freedom of expression, workers from 12 months’ to two years’ imprisonment, my right hon. Friend knows my views and those of this recognising that our officers and emergency workers Government. Prior to taking interventions I spoke about should rightly be protected. Having spent much time the corrosive impact of violent crime across our towns with those on the frontline and seen the impact and the and cities. Tragically, too many young children— sheer volume of these incidents, I think it is right that teenagers—have been stabbed to death in towns and we have that provision in this Bill. cities of the UK. Such senseless violence has no place in The Government fully recognise the professionalism our society. I have met too many mothers whose children and skills of our highly trained police officers, and that have been murdered on the streets of our city, and I includes the specialism of police drivers. Too often, they have seen the raw pain and distress of parents grieving are driving in high-pressure situations pursuing suspects for their child, and the utter devastation they are forced on the road while responding urgently to incidents. to endure. Through this Bill, we will introduce a new test to assess We are proud that this Government have put more a police officer’s standard of driving. Should an officer police officers on the beat, but tough law enforcement be involved in a road traffic incident, this new test will can be only part of the solution. We must do much more allow the courts to judge their standard of driving to understand and address the factors that drive serious against that of a competent and careful police constable violence, so that we can prevent it from happening in with the same level of training, rather than that of a the first place. Through the Bill, we will introduce a member of the public, which is how it stands at present. serious violence duty, which will work to bring public The Government back the police and will never allow bodies, including the police and local authorities, to those with an extreme political agenda, such as those work together as one, to share data and information calling for the defunding or abolition of the police, to across our communities, and work together to save lives. weaken our resolve when it comes to protecting the I thank many of my predecessors for their work on that, police. We back the police and will do everything we particularly my right hon. Friend the Member for possibly can to make our community safer. Bromsgrove (). I have heard the call of the British public for safer I make no apology for finding new ways to protect communities, and that means cracking down on violent our communities and save the lives of our young people. crime, which has a corrosive impact on towns and cities Whenever lives are tragically lost as the result of serious across the country. That includes gangs peddling drugs, violence, we must do everything we can to learn from as a result of which law-abiding citizens live in fear and, what has happened. Homicides involving offensive weapons tragically, teenage children are stabbed to death. This such as knives make up a large and growing proportion senseless violence has absolutely no place in our society. of all homicides, yet no legal requirement is currently placed on local agencies to understand what has happened Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): I support entirely after each incident. We are therefore introducing the the need to make sure that sentences fit the crime, but is requirement for a formal review to be considered, where not the reality that courts have huge backlogs and are a victim was aged 18 or over and the events surrounding reluctant to jail people who should be in jail, because their death involved the use of an offensive weapon. they know that our prisons are overcrowded? Does not The new reviews will ensure that we learn lessons from this Government’s failure on courts and prisons massively such cases, and produce recommendations to improve undermine what the right hon. Lady says about sentencing? our response to serious violence. Every time someone carries a blade or a weapon, they Priti Patel: Absolutely not. The Government are risk ruining their own lives and those of others. Every determined in their resolve—through this legislation, stabbing leaves a trail of misery and devastation in its and delivering on our manifesto commitments—to bring wake. Our new serious violence reduction orders will in sentences that fit the crime. This is an end-to-end help the police to protect our communities better,by giving criminal justice Bill. If the hon. Gentleman and hon. officers the power to stop and search those already Members listen to this afternoon’s debate, they will hear convicted of crimes involving knives and offensive weapons. about the measures that are being introduced, and about The orders will help to tackle prolific and higher-risk the Government’s longer-term response. That includes offenders, and help to protect individuals from exploitation the wider work that the Government are undertaking by criminal gangs. That is exactly what I mean when I with the courts and the CPS; the changes that we need say that we are making our communities safer. to make not just to sentencing, but to our laws; and the There will be concerns about disproportionality, but support that we are giving to our police. our aim is for these orders to enable the police to take a more targeted approach, specifically in relation to known Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): We do not knife carriers. Unfortunately, data from 2018-19 indicate want to waste police time. Over the years I have formed that the homicide risk for young black people is 24 times an unlikely alliance with people such as Peter Tatchell, higher than that for young white people. That is appalling. particularly with the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and As long as young black men are dying and their families 63 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 64

[Priti Patel] any changes we make are the right ones. Through this Bill, I intend to extend the scope of the current legislation are disproportionately suffering, we cannot stand back, that criminalises sexual activity with a child under the and I cannot apologise for backing the police when it age of 18 by people who hold defined positions of trust comes to stop and search. The Government will work to include faith leaders, sports coaches and others who with the police to gather data on the impact of the similarly coach, teach, train, supervise or instruct a orders to deliver real and lasting results. sport or religion on a regular basis. Victims and witnesses must have the full protection This issue has some brilliant and long-standing of the law while the police conduct their investigations. champions. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for We will reform the pre-charge bail regime to encourage Chatham and Aylesford (), who even the police to impose pre-charge bail, with appropriate throughout her recent cancer treatment worked with me conditions where it is necessary and proportionate to to ensure that we address this significant issue. I also do so, including where there is a real risk to victims, thank the hon. Member for Rotherham (), witnesses and the public. We hope that that will provide who continues to stand by the many victims who were reassurance and additional protection for alleged victims, abused as youngsters and who were failed and ignored for example in high-harm cases such as domestic abuse. by those who should have supported them. I also thank Baroness Grey-Thompson for her tireless work on this (Hove) (Lab): Since the Home Secretary’s issue. Government first promised a victims Bill, there have Through this Bill, we will also introduce an important been 1 million sexual offences and 350,000 rapes. This measure to help bring closure to families whose loved Bill is 300 pages long and barely mentions women or ones have gone missing. The House will know the horrific children. The explanatory notes do not mention women case of Keith Bennett and the struggles his family have or girls once. Will she get to her feet and apologise gone through to find his body since his murder. In 2017, finally for missing this fantastic opportunity to put the police believed they had a further lead when it came victims at the heart of our criminal justice system? to light that Ian Brady had committed papers to secure storage before his death, but a gap in the law meant that Priti Patel: I will take no lectures from the hon. the police were unable to get a search warrant to seize Gentleman or the Opposition when it comes to supporting those papers. victims. As the former chair of the all-party parliamentary group on victims, I and this Government have absolutely I know this is an important issue—indeed, it has been put victims at the heart of all our work, as have my raised by the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract predecessors in all their work. and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) and others. I am therefore introducing new powers enabling officers to seize evidence Peter Kyle: Asleep on the job. that they believe may help to locate human remains outside of criminal proceedings, such as in missing persons cases, suicides and homicide cases where a suspect is Priti Patel: The hon. Gentleman can yell from the known but cannot be convicted, such as where the Back Benches, but it is important to remember that suspect themselves has died. As I said to Keith’s brother, when it comes to protecting victims, there are many Alan, when I met him recently,I am absolutely determined victims of different offences and different crimes. I to give the police all the powers they need to access any think he and all Members of this House should recognise evidence that could help them to bring some closure in that this Bill will absolutely provide additional protections cases such as Keith’s. While I cannot guarantee that a for victims in high-harm cases such as domestic abuse loved one will be found, I can make sure that families and many other cases. are provided with every avenue that our legal system These reforms will be named Kay’s law in memory of will allow in the pursuit of justice. This is why we Kay Richardson, who was tragically killed following emphasise the need to make our communities safer, and the release of her husband under investigation, rather that is exactly what the Bill does. than on pre-charge bail, despite evidence of previous domestic abuse. It is impossible to imagine the impact The right to protest peacefully is a cornerstone of our of such an horrific crime on the victim’s loved ones, and democracy and one that this Government will always we all have a responsibility to do all we can to prevent defend, but there is, of course, a balance to be struck more victims and more families from suffering as they between the rights of the protester and the rights of have. That is the point and the purpose of this Bill—it is individuals to go about their daily lives. The current an end-to-end Bill. legislation the police use to manage protests, the Public Order Act 1986, was enacted over 30 years ago. In recent Before Opposition Members start to prejudge any years, we have seen a significant change of protest aspect of this Bill and this Government’s work on tactics, with protesters exploiting gaps in the law which victims, there will be plenty of time to debate this Bill. have led to disproportionate amounts of disruption. There will also be plenty of time to debate the role of Last year, we saw XR blocking the passage of an victims and how the Government are absolutely supporting ambulance and emergency calls, gluing themselves to a victims. train during rush hour,blocking airport runways,preventing An essential responsibility and a duty on us all is hundreds of hard-working people from going to work. protecting our children. I am truly appalled and shocked Finally, I would like to gently remind the House that on by each crime and every case of hurt and harm against one day last year many people across the country were young people from sexual abuse and exploitation. It is prevented from reading their morning newspapers due impossible to comprehend the motivation of those who to the tactics of some groups—a clear attempt to limit a perpetrate offences against children, and we have been free and fair press, a cornerstone of our democracy and reviewing the law in this area carefully to ensure that society. 65 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 66

The Bill will give the police the powers to take a more point that unauthorised encampments cause misery proactive approach in tackling dangerous and disruptive and harm to those in the local communities affected by protests. The threshold at which the police can impose them. There have been many discussions with colleagues conditions on the use of noise at a protest is rightfully across the House on this point, and with local authorities, high. The majority of protesters will be able to continue which more often than not bear the brunt of the costs to act and make noise as they do now without police and consequences, alongside the police. intervention, but we are changing it to allow the police In September, my right hon. and learned Friend the to put conditions on noisy protests that cause significant Lord Chancellor published a White Paper setting out disruption to those in the vicinity. As with all our our vision for a smarter approach to sentencing, and proposals, the police response will still need to be now we are introducing legislation to establish this in proportionate. The statutory offence of public nuisance law. We need a system that is robust enough to keep the replaces the existing common law offence. Our proposals worst offenders behind bars for as long as possible, but follow the recommendations made by the LawCommission agile enough to give offenders a fair start on their road in 2015. The threshold for committing an offence is to rehabilitation. Sexual and violent offenders must high, with any harm needing to affect the public or a serve sentences that reflect the severity of their crimes, cross-section of the public and not just an individual. helping to protect the public and give victims confidence We must give the courts the tools to deal effectively that justice has been served. These offences are committed with the desecration of war memorials and other statues. predominantly against women. Through this Bill, rapists Through the Bill, we will toughen the law where there and other serious sexual predators sentenced to a standard is criminal damage to a memorial by removing the determinate sentence of four years or more will henceforth consideration of monetary value of damage. Those serve at least two thirds of their sentence in custody. changes will allow the court to consider the emotional Rapists sentenced to life imprisonment will similarly and sentimental impact, not just financial, so that the serve longer in custody before they are considered for sentence can reflect the severity of harm caused. For release on licence. The Bill also strengthens the framework what it is worth, that does not just mean statues. It will for the management of sex offenders. In particular, we cover a range of memorials with low monetary but high are legislating so that courts can attach positive requirements sentimental value, for example gravestones, war memorials, to a sexual harm prevention order or a sexual risk order roadside tributes to people killed in car crashes and the so that, for example, a perpetrator can be required to memorials to people who have been murdered, such as attend a behavioural change programme. the Stephen Lawrence memorial. I would like to thank my hon. Friends the Members for Stoke-on-Trent North The measures in this Bill build on those in the Domestic () and for Bracknell (James Sunderland) Abuse Bill, which will return to this House after Easter. for their important work on this issue. Among the changes we have brought forward in the Lords is a new offence of non-fatal strangulation and I am also clear that no one should have to put up the criminalising of threats to disclose intimate images. with disturbances and disruptions on their doorstep. I know that these additions to the Bill will be welcomed Unauthorised encampments can create significant by the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell challenges for local authorities, and cause distress and and Peckham (Ms Harman) and my right hon. Friend misery to those who live nearby. As we pledged in our the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline manifesto, we will make it a criminal offence to live in a Nokes). We have had discussions already this afternoon vehicle on land without permission and we will give the about violence against women and girls and what more police the power to seize vehicles if necessary. I can we can do; these measures are fundamental to restoring assure the House that the new offence has been framed confidence in the criminal justice system. in such a way to ensure that the rights of ramblers and others to enjoy the countryside are not impacted. We also recognise that the reoffending rate for children is high, and that is why we are taking forward measures LloydRussell-Moyle(Brighton,Kemptown)(Lab/Co-op): to provide courts with stronger alternatives to custody. What consideration has the right hon. Lady given to the In the Bill, we are providing custodial sentencing options rights of generations of Travellers and Gypsies, who for the most serious crimes, alongside alternatives that have often been around longer than some of our property will allow youth offenders to be effectively managed laws, who might want to pull up on a roadside for a and rehabilitated in the community. That will ensure night? What consideration of their rights has been given that judges and magistrates are able to make the most in the Bill, which will automatically criminalise them? appropriate decisions in the best interests of the child and of the public. In recognition of the fact that children Priti Patel: The hon. Gentleman will be aware that now in custody are much more likely to have complex there was an extensive public consultation on this issue needs, we will introduce measures to enable the trialling and all those points were considered at the time. of secure schools. They will be schools with security rather than prisons with education, and they will have (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): The Home education, wellbeing and purposeful activity at their Secretary may remember coming to visit Wolstanton heart. Marsh in my constituency during the election campaign. Residents around Wolstanton have long suffered as a The courts play a fundamental role in our criminal result of the unauthorised encampments on the marsh. justice system. During the pandemic, we have seen the Will she join me in welcoming what the Bill will do for benefits of enabling participation in proceedings remotely them? This is a manifesto pledge delivered. or by live video or audio link. We want to put these temporary provisions on a permanent footing, giving Priti Patel: I recall a visit to my hon. Friend’sconstituency, judges better options to support the effective and efficient and he is right. Many colleagues, and many members of running of their courts and underpinning the principle the public through the public consultation, made the of open justice. Our aim is to modernise our courts and 67 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 68

[Priti Patel] about the dangers they face all too regularly—women speaking of suffering vile harassment on the streets, tribunals so that there are more opportunities to attend being told to walk with keys between their fingers to and observe hearings remotely, shorter waiting times protect themselves and being told they should stay at and less unnecessary travel. I can assure the House that home. It is not women and girls who should be changing these advantages will never be taken from the right to a their behaviour because of danger. We must change as a full hearing in court. This will always be available where society, and as men in particular, we must do better by needed, and where the court considers it to be in the listening and, most importantly, acting. interests of justice. Trials will continue to take place in I want to turn immediately to the distressing scenes court. We also want to further improve accessibility to we saw at Clapham. I share the anger there is about the our justice system for people with disabilities. policing of this. Deep and profound lessons need to be learned, and there must be change. People should have Peter Kyle: At the moment, if somebody suffers a sexual been able to mark this moment peacefully and safely. assault or rape, they will wait two years before they have We need to find a way for people to show solidarity their moment in court. Will the Home Secretary agree safely and in a covid-secure way. As I mentioned in to amend the Bill so that people who are victims of rape response to the statement earlier today, the Mayor of or sexual assault will be fast-tracked straight into the London has shown leadership on this, asking Her Majesty’s court system and will no longer have to wait two years? inspectorate of constabulary to conduct an independent investigation alongside the Independent Office for Police Priti Patel: It is absolutely right that we look at every Conduct. single measure and approach to ensure that victims of rape receive justice. As the hon. Gentleman will know, Saturday’s event was not a protest; it was a vigil. But the rape review is taking place and will soon be published. there is no doubt that it brings into sharp focus the proposed measures in this Bill about curtailing the right We want to improve accessibility to our justice system to protest—the right to give public expression to deep for people with disabilities. Reasonable adjustments can feeling and the right to campaign for change. The scenes be made for most people with disabilities to enable them from Saturday should be a red warning signal to the to complete jury service. However, the law has to date House that rushing through ill-judged and ill-thought-out prevented deaf people who require the services of a sign restrictions on the right to protest would be a profound language interpreter from having an interpreter in a mistake that would have long-lasting consequences and jury deliberation room with them. We are changing that do great damage to our democracy. The right to protest to ensure that all deaf individuals are able to serve as is a cornerstone of that democracy. jurors unless the circumstances of a particular case mean that it would not be in the interests of justice for On our statute book, we already have the Public them to do so. Order Act 1986, together with other existing powers to police protests. It is of course right that protests should As I said at the beginning, this Government were be peaceful and legitimate—nobody would suggest elected on a clear manifesto commitment to keep our otherwise—but the Bill significantly expands the conditions country safe. That is what the British people rightly that can be imposed on protests. Unbelievably, it includes expect, and that is what this Bill will deliver,by supporting the police, by preventing and cutting crime and by “the noise generated by persons taking part” restoring confidence in the criminal justice system, because causing people “serious unease” as a reason to warrant giving people the security they need to live their lives as police-imposed conditions. I do not know about they choose is an essential part of our freedom. As we Government Members, but the protests that I have been emerge from the coronavirus pandemic, we will build to have certainly generated a lot of noise. back safer and increase the safety and security of our There is also a penalty in the Bill for someone who citizens. This Bill will enable us to do exactly that, and I breaches a police-imposed condition on a protest when commend it to the House. they “ought to have known” that the condition existed. That would have the effect of criminalising people who Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I unwittingly breach conditions. should inform Members that we will start with a time limit of five minutes, but it will go down very quickly to Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): Does the right hon. three minutes. Gentleman not agree that no one should be able to block an ambulance from crossing a road or bridge, and 6.21 pm that no one should be able to block a printing press Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab): The House from printing newspapers? If he does agree, why will he meets today in the shadow of the tragic loss of Sarah not vote for the Bill? Everard, and I know the whole House will be united in sending our thoughts to her loved ones at this time of Nick Thomas-Symonds: Because the existing laws unimaginable pain. In an incredibly moving tribute, her deal with those issues. The Conservative party is not family said: making the case for the additional powers. “She was strong and principled and a shining example to us all. The right to protest to those in power—including the We are very proud of her and she brought so much joy to our Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, lives.” the hon. Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp), who Sarah was just walking home at night—a freedom that waves his Order Paper at me—is extremely precious. I sounds so simple, it should be unquestionable. But in declare an interest as a proud trade unionist and refer to recent days, we have heard extraordinarily powerful my relevant entry in the Register of Members’ Financial testimony yet again from women across the country Interests on support from the Unite union and the GMB. 69 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 70

Whether it is our trade unions or another group that the Member for Hove (Peter Kyle). We raised the awful wants to make its views known loudly in our streets, we practice of sex for rent—people coerced into providing curtail their ability to do so at our peril. The right to sex in lieu of payment—and put forward proposals. We protest is one of our proudest democratic traditions, wrote to the Secretary of State for Justice, the Home and that this Government seek to attack it is to their Secretary and the Secretary of State for Housing, great shame. Our existing laws on protest strike a careful Communities and Local Government; not one of them balance between legitimate rights and the need to keep has even bothered to reply. That shows that this is a order. Our laws on protest do not, and never should, Government who too often like to talk tough but who seek to shield those in power from public criticism and fail to take the action needed. In its current form, the public protest. We on the Opposition Benches will Bill does not meet the ambition of the time and will be a oppose a Bill that puts at risk the whole right to protest, terrible missed opportunity. hard-won by previous generations, that is part of the fabric of British democracy. In seeking to preserve the Peter Kyle: As a signatory to that letter, campaigning right to protest, we on these Benches stand in a long on this means a great deal to me. Actually, I contacted tradition of British democracy. It is this Government the two previous Home Secretaries and , who seek to undermine those traditions. when she was Home Secretary, set a workstream up to Lloyd Russell-Moyle: Does my right hon. Friend agree tackle this issue. It has been cancelled. We have been that the inclusion of parts 3 and 4 of the Bill undermines trying very long and very hard to give protection to victims, the police force and the whole point of what the those 30,000 women every year who are propositioned Government are trying to do to reform our criminal for sex in return for rent. Is it not time that this justice system and make it work for the people? The cross-party offer is taken up? Government should withdraw parts 3 and 4 and get on with deliberating on some of the detail that could be Nick Thomas-Symonds: Absolutely. The cancellation half good. of that workstream is entirely wrong. I say to the Home Secretary that the offer is open on that. The letter has Nick Thomas-Symonds: My hon. Friend is absolutely been sent to the Home Office; reply and engage with us right. Parts of the Bill could have been removed and we on the Opposition Benches. could have had a cross-party discussion on making the rest of it work. The Government have failed to take that Priti Patel: I am actually not aware of that workstream approach. being cancelled or the letter, so I would be more than happy to come back to the House and follow up with James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): Does the right the right hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for hon. Gentleman not agree that for him to vote against Hove (Peter Kyle). the entire Bill, much of which is extremely good and much of which the Labour party has campaigned for for many years, because he believes that there may be Nick Thomas-Symonds: I am grateful for that, and some curtailment of free speech—I do not believe that when the Home Secretary returns to the Home Office, I is the case—in one small part of the Bill, would be to would be grateful if she could dig out the letter and throw the baby out with the bath water? Surely that is respond. That would be extremely useful—it was sent the wrong thing to do. on 29 January, for reference. Nick Thomas-Symonds: I will come to other concerning Chris Bryant: As my right hon. Friend knows, I, and I aspects of the Bill in a moment, but it says a great deal think we as a party, support clause 2, because we believe that when I am talking about the great British tradition that emergency workers should not be subject to the of the right to protest, it is a Conservative Member of terrible assaults that there have been over the years. But Parliament who stands up to challenge it. That is quite this does pose a problem, because a lot of women who remarkable. work in shops are subjected to exactly the same problems Let me turn to what is needed to address the appalling and are often terrified to go into work. We had a issue of violence against women and girls. To our shame terrible incident in the Co-op in Penygraig less than a as a country, we see unacceptable levels of female year ago. Is there not a job of work that we need to do homicides at the hands of men every year. Labour is to make sure that all workers, but in particular women committed to working on a cross-party basis to bring workers working in shops, are also protected? forward additional protections; to deliver on the inadequate sentencing for domestic homicides; and to address Nick Thomas-Symonds: My hon. Friend is absolutely unacceptable and intimidating street harassment. Labour right and I will come on to that issue in a moment, when is committed on stalking, on improving rights for victims I have some proposals to put forward. of crime, on better domestic abuse services and on Ministers risk sending out an awful message on the recognising misogyny as a hate crime. level of importance that they attach to violent crime. There are wider issues, too. On 29 January, I wrote to The Government want a maximum penalty of 10 years the Government, together with the shadow Secretary of for damage to statues. No Government should ever State for Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member for send out a signal that the safety of a statue carries Tottenham (Mr Lammy); the shadow Housing Secretary, greater importance in our laws than the safety of women, my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West (Thangam but, as currently drafted, this Bill would allow someone Debbonaire); the shadow Minister for domestic violence to receive a sentence of up to 10 years for attacking and safeguarding, my hon. Friend the Member for the statue of a slave trader when rape sentences start at Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips); and the shadow five years. That does not reflect the priorities of the Minister for victims and youth justice, my hon. Friend people. 71 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 72

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the I come to the sentencing elements of the Bill. It is of Home Department (Chris Philp): The shadow Home course right to extend whole-life orders to cover the Secretary should well know and should honestly tell the premeditated murder of a child. The tragic murder of House that the maximum sentence for rape is life. Ellie Gould on 3 May 2019 highlights the failure of the justice system to impose strict enough sentences on Nick Thomas-Symonds: I asked the Home Secretary those who murder in a domestic setting and the issue of earlier in the statement to tell me how many people the age of the killer. But this measure is insufficient. convicted of rape were actually sentenced to life The current approach to sentencing seems to forget the imprisonment, and she could not answer the question. context in which many female victims are killed—in the The answer is hardly any. Ninety-nine per cent. of home, with a weapon taken from that location. The reported rapes do not even get close to a court, and then minimum tariff in such cases is 15 years, but it is 25 if we hear the Minister trying to come to the Dispatch the weapon is brought to the scene of the crime. That is Box to boast about the rape statistics—absolutely appalling. a systemic problem; violence against women and girls seems to be seen as less serious than other forms of Peter Kyle: My right hon. Friend and the whole violence. This has to be addressed. Labour party and Opposition agree that protecting private and public property is incredibly important, but The Opposition also say that tougher sentencing on it is about balance. If an angry mob throws a statue into its own is not enough. We know that wider change water and then turns around and throws a woman or a across our society is needed, and we know that the child into water, can he tell us which one, if the Bill Government who have decimated our public services passes and goes into statute, gets the longer sentence? over the past 11 years have totally lost sight of addressing the causes of crime as well, with the sadly predictable Nick Thomas-Symonds: My hon. Friend is absolutely consequences of rising violent crime in every single right about the importance that is being put on statues police force area of England and Wales. The Bill is over women, and the Government should be ashamed. shamefully short of measures to address the unacceptable This comes at a time when— violence women and girls face. In that, it fails woefully to meet the urgent need for change. Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? James Gray: The right hon. Gentleman mentioned my constituent, Ellie Gould, and her appalling murder Nick Thomas-Symonds: In one moment, because I two years ago. He is right to say that we campaigned for need to deal with the issue of the rape statistics that has the issue of premeditation, as proved by taking a weapon been raised. We are seeing fewer people being prosecuted to the scene, to be removed. I hope therefore that he will and convicted for rape than at any time since records vote for the Bill this evening. There is one counter-argument began, and that is at a time when the number of reported to that, however. Abused women at home may well defend rapes is increasing. What message do the Government themselves with a knife, bottle or other weapon at think that that sends to victims about coming forward? home, and if that were to happen and it became As I said to the Minister—he is a Justice Minister; he premeditated, that defence would be lost. really should be concentrating on trying to deal with this problem—99% of reported rapes do not even get Nick Thomas-Symonds: With great respect, the hon. near a court. That is absolutely shameful. I say to the Gentleman identifies a complexity, but I think he agrees Home Secretary: think again about the Government’s with me that that difference in the law—the 15 and priorities on this, make changes, such as end-to-end 25-year tariffs—is not justifiable as it stands and needs support for victims pre-trial and post-trial, and fast-track to be equalised. these trials through our system, instead of the two years The need for overdue action brings me to elements of that there have to be at the moment. the Bill that have taken too long to introduce, but which Steve Brine: If the desecration of our war memorials we welcome. My hon. Friends, often working across the does not move the right hon. Gentleman, can I check parties, have campaigned passionately on important this one with him? Two of my constituents lost their issues and they have secured change. It is welcome that daughter when somebody impaired by the incorrect use the Government have finally brought before Parliament of prescription drugs careered across the carriageway the long-awaited legislation to increase the maximum and hit her car head-on at high speed, killing her outright. sentence for assault on emergency service workers to up In part 5 of the Bill, on road traffic, we introduce clause to two years in prison. I want to pay special tribute to 64, on increased penalties for causing death by dangerous the tireless work of my hon. Friends the Members for driving. Does the shadow Home Secretary support that Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and for Halifax (Holly Lynch) and will he vote for it? in securing this change. They have been campaigning since 2018. Indeed, on 27 April 2018, when the matter Nick Thomas-Symonds: I do absolutely support that of two-year sentences was considered, the then Minister and I will come to it in a moment but, to deal with the said that first part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, he seemed “it would begin to create the kind of situation that exists in to imply that I did not understand the value of war Russia, which I hope will never exist in the UK”. memorials. I absolutely do. The difference is that this He went on to say that such sentences would create Bill has now been extended to every form of memorial, “a category of a superior form of human being with an entitlement including statues of slave traders. It really sums up the to a quite separate form of protection.”—[Official Report, problem with the Government’sapproach. If they genuinely 27 April 2018; Vol. 639, c. 1193.] wanted to introduce proportionate measures to protect Those comments were, frankly, deplorable and the war memorials, they could have done so and not introduced Government’s conversion to the two-year penalty is to the measures that they actually have. be welcomed. 73 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 74

The pandemic has been a powerful reminder, not that retailers, including Aldi, the Co-op, Marks & one should be needed, of the extraordinary bravery and Spencer, McColl’s, Morrisons, Sainsbury’s, Tesco and commitment that our frontline emergency workers have WHSmith. shown throughout. They have put themselves in harm’s I would also like to mention the work of the USDAW— way to keep us safe day in, day out, even at the very the Union of Shop,Distributive and Allied Workers—which height of the first wave, when tests and PPE were so has been passionate in campaigning for its members to shamefully hard to come by.Despite that work, emergency receive these vital protections and has generated well service workers have been subjected to a rising number over 100,000 signatories on petition. We all owe a huge of attacks in this past year, with a 31% increase in debt of gratitude to frontline workers for putting themselves attacks compared with in 2019. at risk to keep our country running. We should repay some of that debt with decent legal protection as well as Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): decent pay. Recently in Wolverhampton, two ambulance staff were stabbed. I am watching you go through this Bill saying Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford that you welcome and agree with so many things, so Green) (Con): The right hon. Gentleman is making, in why on earth have you asked your party to vote against many parts of his speech, a very strong case for supporting it? It just makes no sense. the Bill, but he started by saying that he was not going to support the Bill because of one particular element. The Opposition were going to abstain at the end of last Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): Order. week; then they shifted their position. May I gently I do not want to stop the debate for this, but you do not suggest to him that a decent way of doing this would be, call the person who is speaking “you”. “You”means the if necessary, to abstain today, debate the amendments Chair; the right hon. Gentleman is the right hon. and decide on Third Reading whether the Government Gentleman. I call the right hon. Gentleman. have moved at all? Would that not be more logical?

Nick Thomas-Symonds: Yes, I was not aware of your Nick Thomas-Symonds: I will always bow to the right position on the Bill, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have hon. Gentleman’s guidance on parliamentary procedure, not finished my speech yet, so the hon. Member for but we took a final decision to vote against this Bill. Let Wolverhampton South West (Stuart Anderson) will just me say to Government Members that I will make it have to wait for me to complete my argument. clear when I agree with the Government on something, but as I move on to other aspects of my speech, I am As welcome as this measure is, the Labour party is sure that the right hon. Gentleman will see that there clear that it does not go far enough. As my hon. Friend are other parts of the Bill that also cause deep concern; the Member for Rhondda said, we need to consider the he need only wait for that. workers on the frontline of the pandemic who should also be given that level of protection. First, it does not Chris Bryant: I want to take my right hon. Friend cover the whole of the NHS family, so we are calling for back to the emergency workers legislation. One of the protections to be extended to social care workers as difficulties about the way in which it works is that well. Throughout the pandemic, the range of frontline magistrates courts can only sentence up to six months service workers who put themselves at risk to serve our and the Government have still failed to change the law community has been clear. to allow them to issue longer sentences in certain circumstances. The danger is that increasing the sentence Mr Perkins: I wonder whether the hon. Member for will make absolutely no difference whatever, unless the Wolverhampton South West (Stuart Anderson) has actually Government do what they could already have done in hit on something that might be helpful to the House. the last two years. There are many aspects of the Bill that we all agree on. If only the really divisive aspects that the Home Secretary Nick Thomas-Symonds: My hon. Friend is absolutely has put in were removed, could not the whole House get right. Having understood the attitude of the Government behind supporting our police, rather than going through in 2018, perhaps it is not surprising how slow this has the mess that we have in front of us today? been. (Aylesbury) (Con): Will the right hon. Nick Thomas-Symonds: Absolutely. The Government Gentleman give way? could press pause on the Bill and bring the whole House together. Nick Thomas-Symonds: Let me make some progress; Research has shown that, during the pandemic alone, I have taken a number of interventions. one in six of our shop workers have been abused on I come to the police covenant and frontline police every shift, with 62% of UK shop workers experiencing officers across the country. Like the Home Secretary, I verbal abuse and almost being threatened by a customer. meet the chair of the Police Federation and work with There have been awful examples of attacks on other him on a regular basis. Only in recent days, I met my frontline workers, who have been spat at, punched, local officers in Gwent—virtually, of course—with hon. verbally abused and intimidated. Labour is calling for Friends and listened to the work that they are doing. It wider measures to protect the pandemic heroes, extending is clear that throughout this pandemic frontline officers protections to shop workers as well as other frontline are putting themselves at risk to keep us safe, but across workers. There is widespread support for this, with the the board, frontline workers in the police, fire service, additional protection for shop workers supported by education and so many other areas are facing a pay organisations such as the Federation of Independent freeze. Their efforts in this pandemic are being rewarded Retailers and chief executive officers from a number of with a real-terms pay cut. 75 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 76

[Nick Thomas-Symonds] criminal justice system and continue to take steps that make it worse. The Bill contains so-called serious violence The police covenant is welcome but overdue—it is in reduction orders, which raise serious questions about this Bill, some three years after it was promised. It is disproportionality and community trust. As a minimum, right that the Home Secretary makes an annual report the whole of the review by my hon. Friend the Member to Parliament, addressing key issues on physical protection, for Tottenham, all 35 recommendations, should be health and wellbeing, and support for families, but we progressed without further delay. will study this provision closely, in consultation with Similarly, the Government must look again at the representatives from across policing. We will be arguing sections of this Bill on unauthorised encampments. The for protections including support for mental health, proposals create a new offence of residing on land which is too often overlooked. without consent in or with a vehicle. The loose way it is I turn to the toughening of sentences for those who drafted seems to capture the intention to do this as well cause death by dangerous driving. My hon. Friend the as actually doing this, with penalties of imprisonment Member for Barnsley East (Stephanie Peacock) deserves of up to three months or a fine of up to £2,500, or both. great credit for securing these changes, together with This is clearly targeted at Gypsy, Roma and Traveller other right hon. and hon. Members who signed the Bill communities, and the criminalisation would potentially introduced by the former Prime Minister, the right hon. breach the Human Rights Act 1998 and the Equality Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), last year. They Act 2010. included my hon. Friends the Members for Barnsley When Friends, Families and Travellers researched the Central (Dan Jarvis), for St Helens South and Whiston consultation responses the Government received, they (Ms Rimmer) and for Bradford South (Judith Cummins), found that 84% of the police responses did not support together with MPs from a number of parties. We support the criminalisation of unauthorised encampments. Little those proposals; too many people have taken lives and wonder that senior police officers are telling us that the leftfamiliesheartbroken,withinsufficientpunishment—that changes in the Bill would add considerable extra cost to has to end. already stretched policing, while making situations worse. On the extension of laws that prevent adults in positions I ask Ministers to think of the signal they are sending. of trust from engaging in sexual relationships with Wehave already had the discussion about how responding young people under 18, sports coaches and faith leaders to letters to the Home Office quickly is not the Home should be included in those safeguards. I give great Secretary’s strong point, but she will surely have seen credit here to my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham the letter to her in January—possibly not, given her (Sarah Champion), with others, including Baroness Tanni earlier answer—from nine different organisations, ranging Grey-Thompson and the hon. Member for Chatham from the Ramblers to Cycling UK. That letter sets out and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch). I am sure everyone that these unclear proposals not only risk discriminating from across the House would send her our very best against Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities, but wishes. risk criminalising wild camping and even rough sleepers in makeshift shelters or tents. James Gray: I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman and the whole House will be pleased to hear that my (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): hon. Friend the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford The right hon. Gentleman is very generous to take so was in the Tea Room this afternoon and she tells me many interventions. Is it not the case that, notwithstanding that her treatment is fully successful and she will be on the consultation, the Government have listened and her way to a full recovery shortly. have added the requirement to enter with a vehicle? There is no form of rambling I am aware of where one Nick Thomas-Symonds: That is a wonderful intervention brings a vehicle on to land with the intention of residing to take; I am sure we will all be delighted to hear that. there. The Government could do more on the issue I was discussing. For example, tutors and driving instructors Nick Thomas-Symonds: I think the hon. Member are not included, and I hope that the Home Secretary needs to reread the Bill on the scope of the provisions, will look at that again. frankly, because it is extraordinarily loosely drafted. Another area where some measures are welcome is in Rights of access to the countryside were hard won parts of the review from my right hon. Friend the through the protests of previous generations. I do realise Member for Tottenham being implemented, but that that there is some ill feeling between this Prime Minister review was published in September 2017, nearly four and his predecessor,the right hon. Member for Maidenhead, years ago; there are provisions for the pilot of problem but I did not realise that it ran so deep that he would be solving courts, for recognising the remand of children happy to see people locked up for naughtily running as a last resort and for reform of the criminal records through a field of wheat. [Interruption.] If only she had disclosure regime. On the issue of reform of the Disclosure all those years ago as well. and Barring Service, I wish to pay tribute to my right The Bill before the House could be a landmark Bill, hon. Friend the Member for Warley (John Spellar) for and we must seize this opportunity for change. Yes, his work in securing that change. absolutely,there are measures in this Bill that we welcome— All those things are welcome and overdue, but we mostly because Labour Members have actually campaigned have heard such powerful testimony of the lived experiences for them—but addressing violence against women and and family legacies of the prejudice that black people girls cannot be at the bottom of this Government’s list have faced. Black people have bravely stepped forward of priorities. If Ministers disagree with my interpretation, to share their testimony of structural and the they must show it by their actions, and drop the elements impact it still has. The Government cannot ignore the of the Bill that suggest that attacking a statue could be a disproportionality that exists from start to finish in our worse crime than rape, drop the elements of the Bill on 77 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 78 protests, and revisit the elements that drive up where people have not been put on bail, particularly disproportionality and the controls on encampments, where the crime was a serious violent crime against a which are discriminatory and unworkable. Instead, let woman. However, I ask the Home Secretary to look this Bill be an opportunity for people to come together carefully at the nine-month period that is being set and seize the moment to drive through vital changes to before the police have to go to the magistrates court for address violence against women and girls. Whatever an extension of bail. Certainly, I would urge her to this Government say as the Bill progresses, we on these resist any suggestion that that should be extended, Benches understand and we hear the call for change. because we cannot go back to a situation where people Labour will work to bring about that change, and I are effectively left with their lives on hold, possibly for would ask all Members to work with us in that endeavour. years, as a result of the operation of bail. Finally, I want to raise one area that has already been 6.52 pm raised: I do have some concerns about some of the Mrs Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con): I join the aspects of the public order provisions in the Bill. I Home Secretary and the shadow Home Secretary in absolutely accept that the police have certain challenges, sending my condolences to Sarah Everard’s family and for example when people glue themselves to vehicles or friends. to the gates of Parliament, but freedom of speech is an important right in our democracy, however annoying or There are elements of this Bill, which is a very large uncomfortable that might sometimes be. I know that and significant Bill, that I really welcome: the action on there will be people who will have seen scenes of protests unauthorised encampments, on serious violence, on and asked, “Whyaren’t the Government doing something?” people in positions of trust and on changes to sentencing. The answer, in many cases, may simply be that we live in I particularly,of course, welcome the change to sentencing a democratic, free society. for death by dangerous driving, which reflects the change I proposed in my ten-minute rule Bill. It was supported, I do worry about the potential unintended consequences as the shadow Home Secretary said, across the whole of of some of the measures in the Bill, which have been the House, because many Members of this House have drawn quite widely. Protests have to be under the rule of constituency cases that have been affected by this, as my law, but the law has to be proportionate. The first area hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (Steve Brine) that I will mention is giving police the powers to deal indicated in his intervention. My desire to bring this with static protests in the way that they have been able forward was first brought about by the case—the very to deal with marches.Those have always been differentiated sad case—of my constituent Bryony Hollands, who was in the past. The second is around noise and nuisance; killed by somebody under the influence of drugs and some of the definitions do look quite wide, and I would drink, but there have been other constituency cases, urge the Government to look at those definitions. such as those of Eddy Lee and Max Simmons. On their The final area I want to mention is the power for the behalf, on behalf of their families and on behalf of all Home Secretary to make regulations about the meaning those affected by this, I say simply to the Government, of thank you. “serious disruption to the activities of an organisation…or…to I would like to focus on a number of areas where I the life of the community.” worry that there could be unintended consequences of It is tempting when Home Secretary to think that giving the measures being brought forward by the Government powers to the Home Secretary is very reasonable, because in this Bill. I absolutely see the reason for bringing forward we all think we are reasonable, but future Home Secretaries the serious violence reduction orders, but I welcome the may not be so reasonable. I wonder whether the fact that they are being piloted, because I think there could Government will be willing to publish a draft of those be unintended consequences in two areas. The first is in regulations during the Bill’s passage so that we can see stop-and-search. Stop-and-search is an important tool, what they are going to be and ensure that they are not but it must be used lawfully and it must not be used also encroaching on the operational decisions of the disproportionately against certain communities.My concern police. is that we do not go backwards on improvements that There are very important elements of this Bill, but I have been made on stop-and-search, and that we actually would urge the Government to consider carefully the ensure that we do not see this being used disproportionately need to walk a fine line between being popular and and a disproportionate increase taking place. populist. Our freedoms depend on it. The other area is girls in gangs, and I am concerned—I have had a discussion with the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member 6.57 pm for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), about this— Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP) [V]: I that we could see serious violence reduction orders can confirm that the Scottish National party will be against male members of gangs leading to their pressurising voting against this Bill tomorrow. That is not to say that their girlfriends to be carrying knives, with the impact there are not sections of the proposed legislation that that would have on those girls. The way in which we support or are satisfied with, but the Bill as introduced girlfriends of gang members are used to get at rival will not achieve what the Government say they want to gangs is a worry and needs to be given more attention, achieve, will seriously curtail the rights to protest, will and I do not want to see the position of girls being criminalise the way of life of Gypsy/Travellers, is likely further exacerbated, unintentionally, as a result of these to have a disproportionate negative impact on ethnic orders. minority communities and women, and will allow the My second concern is about pre-charge bail. I can ridiculous and unjust possibility of a tougher jail sentence absolutely see that, as a result of the changes that were for someone who topples over a statue than for someone brought in previously, we have seen too many cases who does the same thing to a living human being. 79 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 80

[Anne McLaughlin] even if independence were happening next week, I would leave this Parliament still fighting for the right of There is one overarching thing on which I think we every citizen to protest. can all agree, and it is certainly the view of the Scottish These draconian powers are wide reaching, We have National party: tackling serious crime has to be a heard a comprehensive analysis of most of them from the priority. But rather than creating policy to elicit macho shadow Home Secretary,the right hon. Member for Torfaen headlines about tougher sentences and who comes down (Nick Thomas-Symonds), so I will focus on just a few. hardest on crime, the bottom line for us is: what works? First, we as Members of Parliament are accountable to What reduces crime? When it comes to reducing reoffending, our constituents, but now our constituents are to be Scotland’s rates are the lowest they have been since told that they can protest and let us know of their comparable records began, because of our focus on disapproval, only we would prefer silent protests so we community justice. are introducing noise as a basis on which the police can The Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for intervene and impose any type of condition to stop Croydon South (Chris Philp), knows that this tougher them. Even if they do make noise, it will not matter. We sentencing policy does not work. He once said: will not hear them because we are putting in an exclusion “The evidence is mixed, although harsher sentencing tends to zone around Parliament so far-reaching that what they be associated with limited or no general deterrent effect.” have to say—their legitimate protest—will not fall on So why make that a central plank of the Bill? That is a deaf ears; they will simply be so far away that it will not question the UK Government have to answer. Why do be audible. They will effectively be silenced. I want it if it does not work? those people to know that I do not want them silenced, even if they are opposed to what I stand for. I want to Someone we should always listen to is the chief executive be a Member of a Parliament that embraces democracy; of Community Justice Scotland, Karyn McCluskey. the Bill is doing the opposite, and it is embarrassing. She said: “Community justice allows people who commit a crime to pay Speaking of embarrassing, that word does not cover back to the community they harmed whilst addressing any underlying how the events of Saturday night felt for most of us causes of crime such as addiction, homelessness and mental watching them. I want to say something about what health issues.” happened at Clapham common in the context of the It is not hard justice, it is not soft justice; it is smart police using the powers they already have and for us to justice that genuinely reduces reoffending. I will say it think about how much worse it will get if the sweeping again: Scotland now has the lowest reconviction rates powers in the Bill are handed over to senior police since comparable records began 21 years ago. officers. I turn to the right to protest, which is a right. I know First, I want to add my voice to those of the many the Government have a bit of a disdain for international thousands who are heartbroken for the family and friends law, but article 11 of the European convention on of Sarah Everard. The torment that her family must be human rights is the right to freedom of assembly and going through is something that nobody in this House association. The Bill directly contradicts the rights of would wish on anyone. I know we all share the despair. I citizens to protest where, when and how they choose. If attended an online vigil on Saturday night, but I understood it goes through, there will be very few rights to protest why those women who met in person did so—particularly in England and Wales at all, and that is unacceptable in those who live near to where Sarah was taken. I got it. I a democracy—especially one that likes to claim to be know they were breaking regulations, and I would never the bastion of democracy and has a history of telling encourage that, but they were in pain and they wanted the rest of the world how to behave. to come together to help others also in pain. I do not know any woman who has not got a story to tell. Male Let us not forget the rights of the people of Scotland violence against women takes such a heavy toll on all of to protest in England. While decisions about our lives us, and sometimes we need to be with other people. are made in London, we, the people of Scotland, reserve the right to peacefully protest at the seat of power. Let Given the context of Clapham common on Saturday me note some of the things that the people of Scotland night, surely sensitivity should have been the watchword. have protested about in England: the Iraq war, over I cannot imagine how frightened some of the women which Scotland had no choice; the obscenity of nuclear must have been, particularly given the circumstances. weapons conveniently stationed in Scotland, over which They have just had an alarming reminder that the police Scotland has no choice; and the wonderful women and uniform does not give a cast-iron guarantee of safety their allies in the Women Against State Pension Inequality and some of them find themselves on the ground, Campaign. Allow me to quote Rosie Dickson from handcuffed, with knees on their back, flowers for Sarah WASPI in Scotland, who called this trampled on, legs held down and unable to move at the “truly a step too far for those 1950s-born women who have not hands of the police. Sarah Everard was just walking only been unfairly denied their pensions by a Westminster Government home; those women were just expressing their grief. If but now also face having their human right to protest against it, the current powers to curb protest can lead to what without fear of arrest, removed.” happened on Saturday night, imagine how much worse Of course, we in the Scottish National party intend it will get if this legislation goes through. for London not to be the seat of power for much longer. I am deeply concerned about the attacks in the Bill on Weintend to win our independence so that all the decisions the way of life of some of our citizens. I am speaking, of governing the lives of the people of Scotland are made course, about the Gypsy/Traveller community, who are in Scotland, where the right to protest is respected. among the most persecuted on these islands and among When the Government of an independent Scotland get the most misunderstood. This Tory Government want it wrong, as all Governments do from time to time, the to criminalise their way of life at the same time as the people will be perfectly entitled to tell them that. However, Scottish Government have produced an action plan entitled 81 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 82

“Improving the Lives of Scotland’s Gypsy/Travellers”. Lives Matter movement was “dreadful” while I think it What a contrast! Why are this Government so intent on is magnificent, so her idea of “serious disruption” will cracking down hardest on the most vulnerable in our likely be very different from mine. Yet we are signing society? over to her the right to come up with a definition that While we are on the issue of racism in society, let me will not be debated and we are simply expected to come to clause 46 on memorials. Is it not interesting accept that. It is not good enough. The Scottish National that this legislation that comes down hard on anyone party will be voting against this Bill tomorrow and damaging a memorial comes about shortly after a group scrutinising it very carefully when it comes to Committee. of people in Bristol toppled a statue of someone who made his money from slavery? Would I have toppled the 7.9 pm statue? No. But do I think slave owners should have lasting Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con) [V]: memorials to them? Definitely not. This Bill would This is a significant and large Bill, and it warrants increase the maximum jail sentence for someone convicted serious scrutiny. It therefore deserves better attention, I of this to 10 years: 10 years for damaging an inanimate submit, than some of the hyperbole that has regrettably and, to some, very offensive object, when it is rare to get been thrown at it in the course of the earlier speeches of anything like as much as that for damaging a living, this debate. It is reasonable to examine a Bill carefully breathing person or animal. It is interesting, isn’t it, that as it goes through Committee. I have scarcely ever the toppled statue that I believe prompted some of this known a Bill that is not improved by careful examination legislation was toppled as part of a Black Lives Matter from the time when it is brought in. To vote against the demonstration, when black people and their allies finally Bill tomorrow does not seem to me to be a mark of a said, “Enough is enough”? As soon as they organise to responsible Opposition, and it is regrettable that Labour have their voices heard, legislation pops up to silence and the Scottish National party have gone down that them. I find that very interesting. I have spoken this route, particularly when they can see that there is much weekend to people in the Black Lives Matter movement to agree with. Many organisations in the criminal justice who believe that this endangers their very existence. sphere including NACRO, the Centre for Justice They are in no doubt that they will be targeted. organisation, the Magistrates Association and others I have had a lot of emails about this in the past have welcomed measures in the Bill. two days, and there will be many people watching We need a sense of proportion about these matters. who—believe it or not—do not normally tune into For example, the reforms to public order legislation Parliament, so it is worth mentioning that this is Second certainly need careful consideration, but changes to the Reading and the next stage is Committee, where the Bill law around public nuisance were recommended by the will be scrutinised line by line, word for word, by Members Law Commission as long ago as 2015. This measure from each party, where evidence will be considered, and puts that law on a statutory basis, as the Law Commission where amendments may be proposed. One of the things recommended, but uses, perfectly understandably, terms we will want to pay particular attention to is clause 36 and phrases from the old common law arrangements, on data extraction from mobile devices. I know the which are well understood and well defined by case law Scottish Government have been speaking to the UK in the courts. The idea, therefore, that the Law Commission Government about safeguarding and some progress has is somehow part of some authoritarian plot seems to been made. This is certainly something we will want to me to be risible, and better arguments can be made than interrogate. We have to be exceptionally careful about that. the use of people’s personal data. Being near the M25, my constituency has unfortunately Let me turn briefly to stop and search. Although this had repeated unauthorised incursions into both publicly will not impact directly on Scotland, I want to add my owned and privately owned playing fields, sports grounds voice to those on the Opposition Benches who are and others. Proportionality and fairness also mean that saying “Enough is enough.” It is not just politicians there should be swifter and better recompense than the who are saying that the impact on black communities is current situation permits for those communities that see disproportionate and it is not just black communities much-valued community assets put out of use by who are saying it. Newly retired chief executive of the unauthorised encampments. College of Policing, Mike Cunningham, has voiced his On the sentencing elements of the Bill, sentencing is concern that existing stop-and-search powers are always a difficult matter, both in individual cases and in disproportionate to what he calls an “eye-watering” terms of policy. It requires a careful balance. Overall, degree. We should be listening to him and to groups like the Justice Secretary and his team who worked on this Liberty, Amnesty and Fair Trials who have called for a part of the Bill have got it right. It is right that we review of existing powers rather than an extension. strengthen provision to protect the public from the If it is to be fair, the law must be foreseeable. We must most serious criminals, but it is also right that we give be able to foresee, to a degree that is reasonable in the greater attention to the need to rehabilitate. Basically, circumstances, the consequences that any given action many of those who end up in the criminal justice system may entail. This Bill is peppered with ambiguous wording and, indeed, in prison have chaotic lifestyles, sometimes left to be defined by statutory instruments. For example, mental health issues, educational issues, social problems there are regular references throughout to “serious and, frequently, weakness and stupidity. Getting those disruption” as a reason to criminalise somebody, but people out of a never-ending cycle of reoffending, as there is nothing in the Bill to define “serious disruption”, the White Paper says, on which this part of the Bill is leaving it effectively to the Home Secretary to decide. I based, is not just in their interests, but, overwhelmingly, want to know what the Home Secretary’s definition is. in the interests of the public, too. I welcome the provisions I want the right to debate it. The Home Secretary and I to give a more agile and sophisticated suite of alternatives interpret things very differently. She thought the Black to custody. It is important that alternatives to custody 83 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 84

[Sir Robert Neill] There is an important debate to be had about the measures in the Bill, but I see nothing in them that will are credible to the public, because sentencing has to be turn around those shocking figures, and that is what we credible, but also that they do not waste time in should work across the House to do. We need the police comparatively short prison sentences where little covenant and stronger measures to support police officers rehabilitative work can be done, and which are hugely and emergency workers who face attack. Weneed stronger expensive. They have their place in just limited instances. sentences for the most serious of crimes, including Those changes, therefore, are very welcome. whole-life sentences for premeditated child murder, which Changes to the provisions regarding spent convictions is one of the vilest crimes of all. I support those measures. are very important for rehabilitation. The Justice Committee The same should apply for premeditated kidnap, rape has called for that in previous reports.Recognising a distinct and murder, but that is not currently in the Bill. There approach to sentencing of younger offenders is, again, should also be stronger penalties for rape and stalking, something that our Committee has repeatedly called but those are not currently in the Bill. It would, I think, for,and I welcome that, too. Equally, raising the threshold be wrong if we ended up with higher sentences for for remanding children into custody is very welcome peaceful protest and public nuisance than for stalking. and I would have thought overwhelmingly supported. That would be to get the balance wrong. There is much to support in this Bill, including the I put forward measures last year based on Home provision for charities to set up secure schools, a much Affairs Committee work to extend the register and better improvement on our current provision. I very monitoring provisions for dealing with sex offenders to much hope that this Bill will get its Second Reading and cover repeat perpetrators of domestic abuse and stalking, that we can then examine the provisions in detail. The to stop them moving from one victim to the next and final thing that we have to be honest about is that justice destroying people’s lives because no one is keeping track does not come cheap. If we are to make these important or joining the dots. I hope the Government will accept and radical changes to sentencing policy, we must invest Baroness Royall’s amendment in the other place. If they in them. If we are to have alternatives to custody, we do not, I will table the same measures to this Bill, and I must invest properly in those alternatives. They will hope that support can be built for them. bring both a social and an economic benefit in the long There are further measures, which I hope first to run, but we have to be honest and spell that out at the discuss with Ministers, that I hope could increase the beginning. prosecution rate for assault and domestic abuse, where there have been such problems. The Government are Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): I call right to place a duty on councils and the police to the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, Yvette Cooper. co-operate in tackling serious violence, but we should be explicit about including the youth service in that; 7.14 pm that is not currently part of the Bill. Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) The Home Secretary will know, even from today’s (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for debate, that there is cross-party alarm about some of Bromley and Chislehurst (Sir Robert Neill), a fellow the measures in the Bill that go against the British Select Committee Chair. tradition of free speech and peaceful protest. In the coalfields, there is strong support for the work of the The tragic death of Sarah Everard is obviously on all police, but people have long memories of things such as our minds. It has led women across the country to talk the policing of the miners’ strike, so there is also strong about our shared experiences of threats on the streets of support for proper safeguards to protect peaceful protest. our own towns and cities and also to express the anger that, more than 40 years after the first reclaim the night In the Bill, several powers—the broad wording on marches in Leeds, we are having the same debates all noise disruption, even though we know few protests are over again. In some areas, it feels like things have gone silent, because people want their voices to be heard; the backwards. Five years ago, just 8.5% of reported rapes broad powers given to the Home Secretary on serious reached prosecution. In the last five years, that has disruption; and the statutory public nuisance offences fallen to just 1.4%. The Government have been reviewing with sentences of up to 10 years for doing things that this for two years, but in the meantime prosecution rates simply might risk causing serious annoyance—are too have got worse. broad. Every one of us will have seen protests that we thought were seriously annoying, but we do not believe That reflects the broader near-collapse in the effectiveness that they should have been stopped. We know, too, that of some parts of the criminal justice system. In the five when people protested outside the Iranian embassy for years before covid hit, recorded crime rose by 40%, but Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, the embassy could well have the number of crimes being prosecuted fell by 30%. In argued that the protests were disruptive to their activities just five years, hundreds of thousands fewer charges or caused serious annoyance, but none of us would have were brought, and hundreds of thousands more criminals wanted those protests to be stopped. I urge the Home are therefore getting away with their crimes. In West Secretary to withdraw those measures, to re-consult on Yorkshire, recorded violent crime has shot up. The them and to try to build consensus not just on them, but Government have passed lots of laws, but the number on the other, wider, measures in the Bill, so that we can of people convicted of breaking them has fallen. There all support taking the action needed to cut crime. have been lots of changes to sentences, but fewer criminals are getting sentenced in the first place, so justice is not 7.19 pm being done and victims are being let down. Over the last five years, the shocking truth is that it has got easier to James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): It is a privilege be a criminal and harder to be a victim. We cannot let to be called so early in this extremely important debate. that stand. As always, it is a pleasure to follow the right hon. 85 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 86

Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford as that of Ellie Gould. The Lord Chancellor has said (Yvette Cooper), the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, that he will consider this matter further, probably outside although I am a little puzzled, because most of the the context of the Bill. None the less, I hope that such a amendments to the Bill to make it better that she talked differentiation will be made possible in the near future, about would not be possible if, thanks to the power of because this is a very important matter, and it touches her rhetoric, she persuaded the House to vote against on the tragic case of Sarah Everard. Second Reading, since there would be no Committee Nothing can bring Ellie Gould back. Nothing can stage in which to do that. I suspect that, even though assuage the grief of her parents. Incidentally, nothing she will go through the No Lobby, she actually hopes can assuage the grief of Thomas Griffiths’ parents, who that the Bill will go into Committee. are also my constituents; they have lost their son in a I congratulate the Home Secretary and the very real way too. But strengthening the sentencing Lord Chancellor on this outstandingly good Bill designed regime, as the Bill does, will at least mean some lasting to make us all safer in so many different ways, but I legacy. It is, indeed, Ellie’s law. want to focus on one small aspect of the Bill: the sentencing of minors in clauses 101 to 105. The Home Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): After Secretary knows well the case of my constituent Ellie Gould, the next speaker, the time limit will be reduced to three and she kindly saw the Gould parents on one occasion. minutes. Ellie Gould was brutally murdered in her own home by 17-year-old Thomas Griffiths in May 2019. It was the 7.23 pm most horrible murder of the worst kind, with a knife Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab): found at the scene of the crime. I very much agree with what the hon. Member for Griffiths’ 12 and a half-year sentence was shorter North Wiltshire (James Gray) said. The terrible outcome than it should have been for three reasons: first, because of the police ban on the Clapham common vigil in the he pled guilty, and I am glad that he did; secondly, wake of the tragic killing of Sarah Everard shows how because he was a junior at the time of the offence, albeit wrong the Government are to try in this Bill to curb the he was 18 at the time he was convicted; and thirdly, right to demonstrate, so I hope they will think again because, rather than taking a knife with him to the about that. The anger of the vigil was about women murder, he picked one up in the kitchen. He none the demanding to be able to walk the streets without fear, less stabbed Ellie multiple times using that knife and and we must listen to those demands and act on them then sought to pretend that Ellie had done it to herself. now in the Bill. This demand is not new. Along with It was very much a premeditated crime—there is no women up and down the country, I joined the “Reclaim question about it—but because he did not bring a knife the Night” protests in the 1970s, but then women’s to the scene, he only got 12 and a half years, rather than demands were not listened to by the men in the corridors the significantly longer sentence he would have got of power. Now there are women in government, in the otherwise. Home Office and in the Cabinet. There are women in all I pay tribute to Ellie’s parents, Matt and Carole parties in Parliament. We are in the corridors of power, Gould, and a group of her school friends, who have so we must use our power to deliver for women. been tireless in fighting to change the law in respect of a We all argued it would make a difference if we were brutal crime of this kind. I thank the Lord Chancellor here as women in Parliament. Now we had better prove and the Home Secretary for having listened carefully to it. We can in this Bill make it a crime to do what men do them. Under clause 101, a 17-year-old who turns 18 during to women on the street every day and which makes their the course of the trial, as happened in this case, will now lives a misery. Kerb crawling is terrifying for a woman face a similar penalty to the one they would face if they or a girl on her own, especially after dark. A man has no had been 18 at the time of the crime. Until now, a right to do it, so let us make it an offence punishable by 17-year-old was treated much the same as a 10-year-old, taking away his driving licence. Following a woman on and of course, they are very different people. A sliding the street, filming her, trying to get her number and not scale will now be introduced, so that a 17-year-old will taking no for an answer are harassment. Why should be pretty much treated as an adult. That would have women and girls have to put up with it? Let us make increased Thomas Griffiths’ sentence to 14 years. We that a criminal offence. I have tabled two new clauses, also welcome the ending of the automatic review halfway which have the backing of Members from all parties, through the sentence, which, apart from anything else, and not just women, but men, too. I hope that the causes huge stress and trauma to the victim’s family. Government will accept them. However, the Bill does not address the third anomaly, Too often when a woman is the victim of a sexual which is that had Griffiths brought the knife to the offence, all her previous sexual history is dragged up in scene rather than pick it up in the kitchen, his sentence court and it ends up as though she is in the dock, not would have more than doubled—he would have got up the man. That is not supposed to happen, but it does, so to 27 years, rather than 12 and a half. Surely a frenzied we need to stop it. I have new clauses with cross-party attack of this kind, whether it is done with the knife backing to do that, too, which I hope the Government that someone brings with them or a knife that they find will back. Women do not want us to sympathise; they in the kitchen, deserves the fullest possible sentence in want action, and that is what we should do. the law. There is an argument that women who are victims of 7.26 pm domestic abuse may carry out a murder in self-defence Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con) [V]: There is much in using a knife at home. Surely the criminal law could find the Bill that I agree with, and much of that was set out a way of saying that murder in self-defence under those by the Home Secretary in her opening remarks.I particularly conditions is quite different from a brutal murder such agree with increasing the sentences for assaults on emergency 87 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 88

[Philip Davies] Some measures in the Bill are helpful, but parts are oppressive and downright dangerous. I refer particularly workers to two years, which is an amendment I tabled to parts 3 and 4, which amount to a sustained attack on back when the Assaults on Emergency Workers (Offences) civil liberties, free expression and movement by an Act 2018 was first debated in 2018. It is always good intolerant Government who are increasingly careless of when the Government come round to my way of thinking, the rule of law. so I hope as a result they will look favourably on my Given the time restraints, I will set up the case against amendments when I table them, and we can save some part 4 of the Bill. Gypsies, Travellers and Roma are the time. mostdiscriminatedagainstandmarginalisedethnicminority In the time I have, I will go through some of the in UK society—indeed, the action of Pontins management things I would like to see in the Bill. As was mentioned reminded us of that only days ago. The Bill targets earlier, I would like to see a specific offence for assaulting those communities, and it criminalises what has hitherto shop workers and other frontline workers. I used to been the civil offence of trespass on land. It makes the work in retail, but it has been absolutely terrible to see direct threat of imprisonment and heavy fines for matters the fact that during the pandemic, when shop workers that were previously resolved through negotiation or in have been going the extra mile to help us all, the number the civil courts. The Bill threatens, not just for the act of of assaults on them has doubled. We really need to do trespass but for an intention to trespass, to seize and something about that, and I hope the Government will forfeit any vehicle involved in that trespass, which in the look favourably upon that proposal. case of nomadic people means losing their home and all I am pleased to see some of the provisions for ending their possessions. automatic early release for prisoners. I certainly support Only 3% of Gypsy and Traveller caravans are on that, but I would like the Bill to go further. I would like unauthorised sites. The police response to the proposals to see the end of all automatic early release for prisoners, was unequivocal: particularly those still considered to be a danger to the “trespass is a civil offence and our view is that it should remain public. I would particularly like to see an end to all so…no new criminal trespass offence is required.” automatic release for those people in prison who assault No family willingly stops somewhere they are not welcome, our prison officers. Again, prison officers face a terrible and which has no running water, waste disposal or burden in prison, with far too many assaults. If we were electricity. They do so for the lack of either permanent to say to prisoners that anybody convicted of assaulting or transit sites. Only 29 councils in England provide a prison officer would lose their right to automatic transit sites—a mere 354 places. release, that may well help those hard-pressed prison officers. Evictions will run for 12 months, and it is not difficult to imagine a concerted campaign to exclude Travellers I would like to see the retirement age for magistrates from whole areas of the country, contrary to the recent and judges increased to 75. The Justice Secretary has judgment in the London Borough of Bromley v. Persons said that he intends to do that, so this Bill seems a very Unknown. The judge in that case concluded that good vehicle for that. I would like to see a sentencing “the Gypsy and Traveller community have an enshrined freedom escalator, whereby if people are convicted of the same not to stay in one place but to move from one place to another.” offence more than once, they have to get a harsher punishment the second time than they had the first Preventing that potentially breaches both equality and time, and a harsher punishment yet again if they commit human rights law, as the shadow Home Secretary said the same offence a third time. The Government clearly earlier. The Home Secretary may not care about any of accept the principle of that, because they have done this, but many people do. She would be well advised to exactly that with the covid fines. I hope they will allow a drop these racist and draconian proposals from the Bill sentencing escalator for other criminal offences as well. before it progresses any further. I would like to see magistrates’ sentencing power increased to 12 months, rather than six months. That 7.32 pm needs to be done. I would like to see the word “insulting” Alberto Costa (South Leicestershire) (Con) [V]: Unlike removed from section 4 and section 4A of the Public the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter), Order Act 1986 so that someone cannot be guilty of those of us who represent rural or semi-rural constituencies something if they simply insult people. There are many know only too well the problems caused by unauthorised amendments I would like to see to this Bill that time encampments, and the deeply damaging effects they does not allow me to mention this evening. I could do have on our local communities. The proposed offence with a whole day on Report all to myself. refers to those who brazenly travel and set up unauthorised encampments, with total disregard for others. My Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): I do constituents have often been subject to the disruption not think that is entirely likely to occur. and difficulties caused by those in caravans who, without permission, set up on a village green, a playing field or 7.29 pm agricultural land. Although I accept that that may not Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab) [V]: Ask almost sound particularly troublesome in theory, unfortunately anyone involved in the criminal justice system for their it is the behaviour and activities of those in the caravans priorities, and they will not say, “More new offences, types that causes disruption, damage, and disquiet in our and lengths of sentences, and further layers of complexity lovely rural villages and towns. masquerading as action”; they will point to the backlog The Government’s proposals on tackling unauthorised in the courts, the lack of resources for everything from encampments is a big step in the right direction, but of legal aid to prisons, and the systemic failure at every course more should be done. It does not discriminate turn from investigation and charge, to trial and disposal. against the vast majority of law-abiding Gypsy and 89 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 90

Traveller communities, and neither should it, but it The history of Barnsley demonstrates the issues with highlights the big issue of those who set up unauthorised policing protests and public order. For those who lived encampments, and allows authorities to deal with that through the 1984 miners’ strike and experienced abuse in a more effective manner. at the hands of the police, these new powers will rightly I support the proposal in clause 46 to create the cause alarm. The state already has sweeping powers to offence of desecration of memorials, and I would like police protests; it does not need any more. This is not the Government to consider creating a new offence of about protecting the public; it is about getting cheap, attacking the parliamentary offices of Members of the easy headlines for a weak Home Secretary. I am pleased House. An attack on an MP’s office is an attack on the to welcome the provisions in the Bill that will finally House and on the heart of our democracy. I should deliver justice for Jackie, but I am disappointed that I declare that I am the victim of such a crime. My office cannot support the Bill in its entirety due to the fact was violently attacked less than two months ago in what that it threatens our right to peaceful protest and has no appears to have been a premeditated attack designed to provision to protect victims such as Claire and the intimidate my staff and me. Unfortunately, Leicestershire thousands of other women who are seeking justice. police, led by Chief Constable Simon Cole, have not 7.38 pm been able to identify the assailant. This is the second time in less than 21 months that my office has been Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford attacked. If we are to place value on memorials and Green) (Con): In the short time available, I will limit statues, as we should, by creating this new offence, how myself slightly. The Opposition’s position is somewhat much more important is the symbol of this sovereign illogical at the moment. Is the Bill perfect? No, it is by body in each constituency—namely, the MP’s office no means perfect. I hope that it will be corrected as it bearing the portcullis? These are not inanimate historical goes through. Will that happen? Certainly. I accept that objects; they are the living, breathing and supposedly there are issues around freedom of speech and the right safe workplaces of Members of this House across our to assemble, and I think that these will be dealt with country. I ask the Government to confirm that they during the course of the debate. Overall, this is a good take seriously these attacks against MPs, their staff and Bill, but Labour Members are going to vote against the their parliamentary offices—even more seriously than protection of the police, the prevention, investigation attacks against statues.Accordingly,I invite the Government and prosecution of crime, and important measures on to consider my reasonable suggestion for a specific sentencing and release, on public order,on encampments— offence of attacking an MP, their office or their staff in which bother a lot of my constituents—on youth justice, their constituency. on secure children’s homes and academies, and on the management and rehabilitation of offenders. They will vote against all of that, yet they agree with much of it. 7.35 pm That does not make any sense to me. Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab): In September Tonight I want to draw the attention of my right hon. 2018, my constituent, Jackie Wileman, was tragically and hon. Friends to something very important that is killed by four known criminals who joy-rode a stolen not in the Bill, and I want to make some progress on heavy goods vehicle around Barnsley for days before this. It is to do with the rising theft of pets, including hitting and killing Jackie on her daily walk and crashing dogs, much of which now includes violence. This is a into a house in the village of Brierley. The four men had really big issue; it is not prosaic by any means. 100 convictions between them, and one had already been convicted of causing death by dangerous driving. Sir () (Con): I agree with my right At the trial, one man pleaded guilty and the other three hon. Friend—it is a big issue for my constituents and I were also convicted, but with plea deductions and time am glad he has brought it up. on licence, they all served between five and just over six years. The lenient sentences handed down to them Sir Iain Duncan Smith: I am grateful to my hon. following Jackie’s death led to her brother, Johnny Wood, Friend. bravely and tirelessly campaigning to scrap the maximum There have been reports of a huge, 250% increase in sentence for those who cause death by dangerous driving, dog-theft crimes in a number of counties, particularly so that no family would have to go through what they Suffolk. The Metropolitan police, who cover my area, have gone through. Having fought alongside Johnny for report the highest number of dog thefts in the country. this change in the law, and having raised the issue in the The number of stolen dogs registered on the DogLost Chamber many times and having met the Justice Minister, website has increased by more than 170% since lockdown, I am in no doubt that Johnny’s powerful testimony has and 2020 was the worst ever year for the theft of dogs. directly contributed to the sentencing Bill we have before We are not talking about some inanimate object; this us today. is an animal, a pet who is part of the family like the The Bill, while strong on dangerous driving, also had other pets. Dogs also do hugely important jobs. Who the opportunity to support victims of other crimes. I secures this place by ensuring that we do not have met virtually with my constituent Claire Hinchcliffe a bombs? Dogs. Who checks at customs that people are few weeks ago. She suffered 13 months of abuse at the not importing drugs and other things? Dogs. Dogs are hands of her ex-husband, who continued to stalk her after being trained to detect covid now, and they should have the end of their relationship. He was given a 12-month been brought into airports years ago. restraining order.The Bill could have strengthened sentences The reality here is that it is very violent. The big point for crimes such as this, but it does not. It does not is that gangs are involved now. The prices of these mention violence against women once. It fails to address animals have risen—we are talking about £5,000 or this issue, yet it proposes to give the police extra powers £10,000 for a dog—and the gangs are very violent. I and the right to limit peaceful protest. have constituents who have been knocked to the ground 91 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 92

[Sir Iain Duncan Smith] because of shortcomings in social security support or mental health or other local services. The potential for and beaten and had their hands stamped on. There have abuse in the use of such arcane and outdated legislation been threats made against them, their home and their is clear to see. It is a scandal and surely in breach of families. These are serious offences, yet right now it is human rights legislation. almost impossible to get more than a slap on the wrist Following our recent inquiry on this issue, the all-party for this stuff—a fine of £250 or perhaps £500. parliamentary group on women in the penal system, Dogs are not even listed in the Home Office which I co-chair with the hon. Member for Thurrock classification—they are in among theft from the person, (Jackie Doyle-Price), has recommended that the Bail bicycle theft, shoplifting and other theft. Pet theft currently Act be repealed. At a recent APPG meeting, I was struck sits hidden from view under HOC49, alongside things by the evidence from a prison governor, who said that that do not have a home, such as a wheelbarrow. This is prison was the worst possible environment for a vulnerable wrong, it diminishes the crime and it means that many person and would exacerbate their vulnerability. The people who are devastated by pet theft, and often shocking thing is that the scale of the scandal is not brutalised, have no recourse. As I said, even the sentencing even known; the Government do not even collect data side of it is very poor. We need to bring in much tougher on the number of people detained under this legislation. sentences and it is important that we have a categorisation After meeting the Minister of State, Ministry of Justice, that includes dogs and other pets. We also need police the hon. and learned Member for South East to take pet theft seriously. One individual told me that Cambridgeshire (Lucy Frazer), and the Howard League when their dog was stolen, a police officer said, “Did a few weeks ago, I had hoped that this would be you have anything else of value taken?” as though dogs included in the Bill. Perhaps the Home Secretary could were not of any value. indicate whether the Government will be correcting this Microchips have to be put in by law, yet no vet has to omission in Committee. scan to see whether or not a dog is stolen. That should Finally, I want to express my concerns regarding the change so we should bring that in. Other ideas include a Government’sfailure once again to undertake any equality ban on cash sales, as happened with scrap metal, to cut impact assessment on the Bill. Given the Lammy review off such sales, and consideration of the reintroduction and the evidenced racial disproportionality in the criminal of licences for pet ownership. justice system, the Government’s rhetoric about Black Pet theft is a serious offence and I would like the Lives Matter rings hollow. Government, during deliberations on the Bill, to introduce changes to help people. Violence and the theft of animals 7.45 pm are wrong. We should do something about it, and do it Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con) [V]: now. I strongly support the points about pet theft made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and 7.42 pm Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith). As Second Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) Church Estates Commissioner, I also strongly welcome (Lab) [V]: The Bill is a missed opportunity. I support the addition of faith leaders alongside sports coaches, some measures, such as those on the police covenant, both of which have been added to the list of professions on doubling the sentence for assaulting emergency workers in the Bill—that also includes teachers, social workers and on toughening sentences for death by dangerous and doctors—for whom it is illegal to have a sexual driving, but I have concerns about several others, including relationship with a 16 or 17-year-old in their care. This the proposed changes to the right to peaceful protest is in line with the recommendations of the independent and the measures on unauthorised encampments, which inquiry into child sexual abuse, and it is absolutely are targeted at Gypsy, Roma and other travelling right. communities. I want to spend the rest of my remarks giving voice to The absences in the Bill reveal the Government’s the everyday experiences of one of my female constituents worrying priorities. The lack of the prioritising in the in her early 20s. The cumulative impact of these incidents Bill of measures to protect women from violence and amounts to very serious and wholly unacceptable antisocial support them is a matter of deep regret. That the penalty behaviour of the very worst kind, which can lead to a for defacing a statute has been increased to 10 years—double severe lack of self-confidence and wellbeing. the minimum tariff for someone convicted of rape—is Over the last year or so, my constituent has told me offensive, and I hope the Government will think again that she has endured: being touched inappropriately on that. With that in mind, I send my sincere condolences and called a prostitute by a strange man on her own to Sarah Everard’s family and friends—I can only imagine doorstep; being continually cat-called while walking what they will be going through at the moment. down the street; being groped without consent in a I wish to focus the remainder of my remarks on the nightclub; being cat-called in a seriously offensive manner absence of any measures in the Bill to repeal the Bail from the street while fully dressed in her own property; Act 1976, and on its impact on vulnerable women. being harassed by a group of men in a pub; having her Under the Act, the courts can remand an adult to bottom commented on by an older man while filling her prison for their own protection, without that person car up with petrol; having her figure loudly commented being convicted or sentenced, and even when a charge on by three boys while on the underground, with no one cannot result in a prison sentence. Someone’s liberty else in the carriage asking them to stop; being followed can be removed without expert evidence or any formal by a much older man in an unwanted manner over investigation into their circumstances, and even without coffee after a church service; and having a man lie to her their having legal representation. It is reprehensible to about his singleness, when he was married and asking deprive a vulnerable adult or child of their liberty her to meet under false pretences. If a young woman in 93 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 94 today’s society is not free from sexual harassment in her serious violence and build trust with communities that own home, in public, in a pub, in a nightclub, at a petrol feel they are sometimes viewed as the perpetrators when station, on public transport or after a church service, they are actually victims, are not included. That includes where indeed is she safe? the many girls and young women caught up in violence The tragedy is that these experiences are all too associated with gang violence. common for many younger women, and it is vital that I want to focus the rest of my remarks on some of the male Members of Parliament call them out. Although other measures proposed in the Bill. Those who seek to there is so much that we properly expect of the law, the control the expression of the right to protest— police and the courts, they cannot change a whole culture on their own. That is where our common community Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): Order. life, our families, and indeed every single one of us, has I am afraid the hon. Lady has significantly exceeded her a role. It is up to all of us to set a culture to uphold the time limit. She will have another opportunity at the next values of decency, respect and honouring women that stage of the Bill. should be commonplace. In particular, it is up to all of us—especially men—to challenge the unacceptable 7.51 pm behaviour of other men. The behaviour that I described earlier is not manly anyway; it is cowardly, bullying, Laura Farris (Newbury) (Con): There is much that I pathetic and wrong. welcome in the Bill, in particular that the Government have adopted recommendations made by the independent inquiry on child sexual abuse. I have a direct interest in 7.48 pm this because I worked on it before entering Parliament. I (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: I start think I am right in saying that this is the first time that by offering my deepest condolences to the friends and the inquiry’s recommendations have been brought into family of Sarah Everard. May her soul rest in peace. law. It is a powerful thing for the survivors to see the Parts of Clapham Common fall within my constituency, nightmares of their past informing the laws of the and having lived in Brixton all my life, I have walked the future, first, by extending the definition of “position of same streets that Sarah did. My first job was at the trust”. When we looked at sports coaches and religious Sainsbury’s supermarket on Clapham High Street and leaders, what they shared was status not just in their my sixth-form college, St Francis Xavier Catholic Sixth sphere but in their community. The children they chose Form College, is located at the southern tip of Clapham tended to be vulnerable in the first place. They built on Common at Clapham South. I have felt afraid, and I do the bonds of trust with families to establish extended not want my daughter growing up and making the same periods with those children, often overnight, and they adjustments that I did—that all women do. In the past were willing to engage in extended patterns of grooming few days, I have been contacted by hundreds of women to do so. There are other categories of worker to whom and men—young and old, grandmothers, mothers, sisters, that applies and I hope the Government will keep an fathers, brothers—who live in Clapham and across my open mind on that. constituency of Vauxhall. Now they no longer feel safe. It is also a core finding of the inquiry that we are failing Our streets and our public spaces should not be to properly protect children against the worst kinds of places of fear for women. We need to listen to women’s abuse because offenders can travel abroad and find voices and we must believe what they are telling us. That impoverished and vulnerable children to seriously sexually includes making sure we listen to all women, including exploit. So I welcome the extension of the sexual harm the voices of black women and trans women. Far too prevention orders to limit their ability to travel and to often, we do not hear the names of black women and give the Secretary of State the right to list countries. minority ethnic women in the news or on , We know and the National Crime Agency knows what but sadly, many of them have been failed by the police countries that takes place in. However, to be effective and the criminal justice system. So I say the names of we must also take action against social media companies, Blessing Olusegun, Joy Morgan, Bibaa Henry, Nicole which all too often are allowing very violent sexual Smallman and many others who have died on our exploitation to be streamed across their platforms. The streets. Only then can we start to heal the mistrust and abuse happens abroad, it is consumed in the United put in place long overdue protections to protect all Kingdom and, if we do not take the opportunity to women. We must and we will reclaim the streets. address that in the online harms Bill, I do not know if The Bill is wide-ranging and it contains a number of we ever will. important measures that I welcome. I pay tribute to my Similarly, on managing terrorist risk offenders, I hon. Friends for their tireless campaigning on dangerous particularly welcome the new powers given to the Parole driving,protectingouremergencyserviceworkers,reforming Board under clause 108 to restrict the release of those who the Disclosure and Barring Service scheme, and widening may have been radicalised in prison. This goes directly the law to prevent adults from abusing their positions of to the lone wolf attack in Forbury Gardens, on the trust and engaging in sexual relationships with young doorstep of my constituency, where the assailant had people under 18. These measures will make us feel safer. been released just 17 days before and it might have However, the Bill is also a missed opportunity for changed the outcome. much-needed reforms. It does not do nearly enough to I want to close by saying something about violence address the urgent issue of racial disproportionality in against women. I cannot accept that this Government our criminal justice system. As co-chair of the all-party are not doing all they can to protect women in this Bill, parliamentary group on knife crime and violence reduction, but particularly in the context of the Domestic Abuse I am disappointed that the Government have missed an Bill. It is so rare to have two new sexual offences opportunity to focus on prevention by ensuring that the identified in one piece of legislation, together with the organisations that need the long-term funding to tackle new offence of coercive control. 95 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 96

Andrew Griffith: My hon. Friend speaks very eloquently unauthorised encampments. Part 4 effectively upgrades about sexual violence against women and we would like acts of deliberate trespass from a civil to a criminal offence. to hear more from her. The campaign of those of us who have argued for that change for a number of years now was based on a Laura Farris: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. similar change in the law in the In the last week, a new conversation has crystallised several years ago; hence it has often been referred to about the safety and dignity of women and their ability succinctly as the Irish option. The move has become to move around in public, and attention must be paid to necessary because of persistent illegal incursions by their voices. I do not think the Bill is the place to rush some individuals, including some members of the travelling through new measures or to bolt on new provisions, but community, that have become an increasing problem in I think the Government have an opportunity to begin many parts of the country, including my home county an important conversation through their VAWG strategy, of , in recent years. and I think there is a place for focused legislation on the For the record, many Travellers are perfectly law-abiding issue at the end of the year. and have good relations with the settled community. Unfortunately, however, some others are not, and there 7.55 pm have been repeated examples of antisocial behaviour and even criminal damage resulting from illegal encampments (Bath) (LD) [V]: Saturday night saw in recent years in places as varied as village greens, a peaceful vigil highlighting violence against women sports grounds and industrial estates. As a civil offence, ending in scenes of women being forcibly restricted by it has often necessitated local authorities having to go men. It should have been a moment for women collectively to court, at public expense, to have such incursions to grieve the tragic loss of a life and publicly express moved on, as well as sometimes being involved in the their solidarity, but instead of a moment for reflection further expense of clean-up operations once illegal sites on the daily injustices faced by women, this weekend have been vacated. was a powerful reminder of the importance of our civil liberties and the right to protest. Under this Bill, which I am proud to say fulfils a 2019 Conservative manifesto commitment, police officers will Elements of the Bill are good. The Liberal Democrats be given powers to challenge illegal encampments of support trauma-informed services and strengthening one vehicle or more. If people wilfully refuse to move rehabilitation with the aim of reducing reoffending. We on, they can be arrested with a maximum sentence of also support the police covenant, a measure that helps three months’ imprisonment or a fine of up to £2,500, our police to be a better workforce. The Bill could be or both. Crucially, offenders can also have their property, made even better by explicitly making misogyny a hate including their vehicle or vehicles, impounded by the crime. We need to recognise the root causes of violence police. against women. In the same way that we recognise racial or religious discrimination and homophobia, we I can assure the House that this important change in can recognise that hatred of women causes harm. the law has proved very popular with my constituents, and I have received many messages of support since it All that important debate is undermined by the part was confirmed last week. In addition, it has also proved of the Bill on the policing of protests, which is an assault popular with the Essex farming community. The county on our civil liberties and our democracy.The Government adviser of the National Farmers Union, Dr Jake Richards, say they want to clamp down on the most destructive sent me this brief message: protests, but let us be clear that they aim quite literally to silence protest. The measure is a thinly veiled reaction “Dear Mr Francois, I am writing to thank you on behalf of the NFU and the farmers in your constituency for your support and to the climate protests that have taken place over the past for the Commitment from fellow Essex MP, Rt Hon Priti Patel, couple of years around Parliament and in cities and on Monday when she announced that changes to the law were towns across the country. The climate emergency has being brought forward as part of a new major criminal justice bill evoked strong feelings, particularly among young people, to be introduced to Parliament imminently. The changes proposed and it would be quite wrong to curtail their voices. will be most welcome by our Members.” The whole purpose of demonstrations is to have one’s Our industrious Essex police, fire and crime commissioner, voice heard, to make an argument, to get the attention Mr Roger Hirst, also warmly welcomed adding these of those who make the law and to encourage change. powers to the statute book. Peaceful protest is at the heart of a liberal democracy. In summary, I hope and believe that these tough new We have taken democracy for granted for a long time. powers will act as a genuine deterrent to illegal encampments Each generation has to fight for its freedoms. Each in future and should thus lead to improved relations generation faces different challenges, but the diverse between the travelling and settled communities. I voices from all sections of our society should never be congratulate Ministers, and the Home Secretary in stifled or suppressed. particular, on having the courage to introduce them Liberalism exists to protect our freedoms, our democracy and, in so doing, fulfilling part of the manifesto on and our right to protest. If the Government were really which we were elected in the first place. serious about protecting women from violence, they would never attempt to silence their protests. That part 8.1 pm of the Bill must go. Sir Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): I am particularly pleased to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for 7.58 pm Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), because I intend Mr (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con): I to address virtually the same subject. Poole is a beautiful want to concentrate on the provisions of part 4 of the place. We attract people, and, unfortunately, we attract Bill, which deal with the long-standing problem of people with unauthorised encampments. Last summer, 97 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 98 in Poole Park, the cricket pitch was camped on. There and survivors of crime, especially sexual violence, lack was Whitecliff, Sandbanks car park—there are many confidence in the system, and this Bill was the opportunity areas in Poole that face unauthorised encampments, to change that. There are far too many instances where which take away well-used local resources from children sentencing is too lenient, or indeed where predatory or and grandchildren, and my constituents. violent behaviours are not even criminalised. Part 4 of the Bill was in the 2019 manifesto. I am I am relieved that the Government are finally particularly pleased that the Government have grasped reintroducing pre-charge bail conditions. Removing them this issue and brought forward this legislation. My in 2017 led to survivors living in fear of reprisals from constituents could never understand how they had to their abusers. I also very much welcome the fact that the have licences, obey the law and pay their council tax, Government are finally bringing forward the “positions but if they stepped on any area that was illegal, they of trust” provisions that make it illegal for faith leaders would get arrested by the police, when there are people— and sports coaches to have sex with 16 and 17-year-olds in their care. However, the Government need to extend Sir Iain Duncan Smith: Will my hon. Friend give way? this law to cover the likes of driving instructors, youth workers, police officers and private tutors. Sir Robert Syms: I will. I am pleased about the progress on extending the Sir Iain Duncan Smith: Does my hon. Friend not offence of arranging or facilitating the commission of a agree that this is the age-old clash between rights and child sex offence to include the rape and abuse of responsibilities? In this case, they have responsibilities a child, and on stronger sentences for commensurate but they see others who simply claim they have rights. harm. However, the Bill must be strengthened to address online sexual exploitation. Aggravating factors must be Sir Robert Syms: My right hon. Friend makes a very included, as has been done in Australia, when it comes good point. What used to happen until recently was to sentencing. The Bill should be amended to state that that people would turn up, and others would phone the approaching a person with regard to child sexual offences local council, which would say that it could not do also specifically includes doing so online or via other much about it. They would then phone the local police, telecommunications. who would say that they could not do much about The provisions on the establishment of a list of it—indeed, there have been occasions when the local countries considered to be at high risk of child sexual police have watched people go and set up unauthorised exploitation or abuse by UK nationals need to include encampments—and then they would phone the Member countries that are at risk from UK citizens who commit of Parliament and let him know what they think about abhorrent crimes online. Too often, I hear of UK him, saying that the Government must do something. It nationals remotely directing abuse of, often, Filipino is true that the local authority and the police have had children from their own homes. Currently, there is a more powers than they have been willing to use, but this loophole in the law whereby a registered sex offender is in the “too difficult to deal with” box, so people have can change their name through deed poll and then go just kept their heads down and hoped that, after a week under the radar of the authorities. Alarmingly, I recently or two, people would move on. uncovered the fact that over 16,000 sex offenders breached However,this does increase real costs to local authorities, their notification requirements in the past five years, which, apart from cleaning up sites, sometimes have to which means that they disappeared from the system set put special measures in to try to protect sites. Year after up to monitor them. year, this costs council tax payers quite a lot of money, so I am very pleased that the Government have put Finally, I am astounded that while the Bill makes these powers in the Bill. I hope that they survive their several changes to procedures in courts and tribunals, passage through the House. They will make a material the Government have not used it as an opportunity to difference to the quality of life of many of my constituents. further improve support for victims and witnesses of sexual abuse. There are issues to do with Travellers that we need to address apart from unauthorised encampments. One of Tragic events of the past week have shown just how those is the poor educational qualifications that many important this Bill is. For too long, abuse, and particularly of their children have—the Government need to pay violence against women and girls, has gone on unchecked attention to that to see what more we can do—and and survivors have been left to deal with a system that is another is the health standards of many of these people, not only not working but often making their situation who do not access hospitals as easily as the rest of us. worse. Crimes against women often specifically occur because they are women. These crimes are not gender Overall, what the Government are doing is very sensible. neutral, so the law should not be either. We must consider This is the sort of Bill that a confident right-of-centre a definition in terms of making misogyny a hate crime. Government should bring in to deal with law and order— not only with Travellers but with many other areas. Personally, I am becoming a great fan of the Home 8.8 pm Secretary and the Lord Chancellor,who instead of talking a good game are actually producing things in legislation (South Northamptonshire) (Con): that will make a great difference to people’s lives. The appalling events of recent days have caused great anger and anxiety. My inbox has many emails calling for curfews on men and many others calling for greater 8.5 pm understanding that not all men are perpetrators. At Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab) [V]: I welcome such a difficult time, we must find the right balance parts of this Bill, but there are glaring omissions, especially between personal freedom and state intervention, but around violence against women and children. In also recognise how vital it is that we teach our boys and Rotherham, and across the country, all too often victims our girls the profound importance of mutual respect. 99 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 100

[Andrea Leadsom] would they not? They would put pernicious rules into what, in public speaking, we call a “something sandwich”, In speaking in this Second Reading debate, I want to where you put the bad in the middle and sandwich it focus on a measure in the Bill that I think everyone with the good. That is what the Bill is. I will come on to can get behind—giving the police new powers to tackle what the particularly bad things are, but there are also unauthorised encampments. For my constituents, that great missed opportunities. I sat on the upskirting Bill cannot come soon enough. In late 2019, a plot of Committee. Wepushed amendments, and the Government floodplain near Northampton was sold privately, and accepted that they would explore bringing forward misogyny then, in the middle of 2020, it was auctioned off to as a hate crime. Where is that in this Bill? That could potential developers. The sales were under false pretences have been included, and it is so disappointing that it is because planning consent would never be granted on a not. There are clearly missed opportunities. floodplain. Then in August 2020, as local residents had Part 3 of the Bill is particularly problematic, and feared, a large number of vehicles entered the site and notably the use of the phrase “serious unease”. To tell set up an unauthorised encampment. From August to the truth, I find myself feeling serious unease when October, the local community was witness to huge piles certain Government Members speak and I disagree with of commercial waste entering the site and being dumped them, but in a democracy, I can feel unease, disagree on the floodplain and in the River Nene, and multiple and even think that they are saying things that are vehicles with no tax or MOT, some with false plates, offensive, but they are not criminalised. During the entering and leaving the site. There were regular bonfires debates, in the main, the protests outside this with acrid black smoke, and visible payment being place by UKIP and Brexit party supporters and by the taken for third parties entering the site to dispose of remainers were eccentric and annoying to many of us at builders’ waste. the time, but to me, it summarised the beauty of British Local residents suffered verbal and racial abuse and democracy when those peaceful protesters, sometimes antisocial behaviour, including rocks being thrown at of opposing forces, were ringing bells and shouting into passing cars, air rifles being shot, quad bikes being horns. Now there is the idea that the police could say, ridden at all hours and dogs running loose around the “You’ve gone a decibel over—you’re a criminal.” Many streets. Residents endured months of real fear and did of the people on protests will not even know that the everything they could to provide evidence to their parish police have laid orders down, because it will not be and borough council and the local police. Finally, in widely known, so we will be criminalising people without October last year, the combined efforts of Northants them even knowing it. police and the borough council got the Travellers off I have not even got on to some of the really pernicious the land. measures in the Bill, such as those on Traveller communities. A political philosophy that has always chimed with If we had decent move-on sites and decent support me is that of John Stuart Mill. In setting out to describe from local authorities and made sure that we worked the parameters of individual freedom, he said that we with the community, we could resolve the problems. should all be free to do exactly as we like, provided that Surrey has no move-on sites whatsoever—no wonder we are not impeding someone else’s freedom to do there are problems in that county. Those are the things exactly as they like. That is a difficult balance to achieve we need to deal with rather than criminalising. The idea in real life, but where the rights of communities versus that someone in a layby over one night could be considered the rights of Travellers are concerned, there can be no a criminal— doubt that facilitating a Traveller’s way of life must not necessitate the misery and fear that was caused for my Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): Order. constituents. Many will be heartily delighted with this I was so carried away with the hon. Gentleman’s rhetoric new measure, and I am grateful to my right hon. Friend that I did not notice he had exceeded his three minutes. I the Home Secretary for listening to the huge majority apologise to everybody else. across the country who want to see greater protections 8.14 pm from unauthorised encampments. Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): I welcome the Bill, 8.11 pm which seeks to inject fairness into the criminal justice system and rights many wrongs currently in existence. LloydRussell-Moyle(Brighton,Kemptown)(Lab/Co-op): The protection that clause 46 gives to war memorials This is a Trojan horse Bill, and the Home Secretary is and wreaths laid on them is admirable, and I am glad Sinon at the gates of Troy saying, “I’m the only one left! that the provision is being introduced. To desecrate a Please let me in with this fantastic Bill that’s going to do memorial is a particularly low thing to do and the law all the things that you Opposition Back Benchers have should reflect that. been asking me to do.” Well, we see that hidden in the May I also welcome the changes to sentencing powers Bill, there are some nasty and pernicious laws. Many of to allow for life imprisonment for death by dangerous the good things in the Bill could be achieved by either driving? In too many cases, the courts have been unable amending or bringing forward separate Bills, such as to deal with these matters effectively and consequently the Death by Dangerous Driving (Sentencing) Bill, they have given inadequate sentences for even the worst promoted by the right hon. Member for Maidenhead incidents. That will stop, and we will all be safer as a (Mrs May). consequence. I have to say, it would have helped if the Instead, the Government have put forward a Bill that Crown Prosecution Service had been more minded to is so big, so expansive and so diverse that it covers two lay manslaughter charges in many such instances. It Departments, so that they can squeeze the good things seems to be only on the road that an offence can happen in as well as those that deny the rights of people. If we in which someone carries out a deliberate action that allowed this to stand, every Government would do it, creates an obvious risk that is against the law, and yet 101 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 102 the CPS is reluctant to lay manslaughter charges. That provisions will not be applicable in all the circumstances will change because of these proposals, which I welcome in which they have the power to make a difference. As with open arms. co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on wrestling, The serious violence reduction orders to be brought I am hugely disturbed that the provisions set out in in by the Bill are truly groundbreaking. Knife crime is clause 45 will not protect those in the wrestling industry. an evil that destroys lives and terrifies communities, but Colleagues may not be aware that wrestling was devastated the Bill gives the police powers to make a difference. by the #SpeakingOut movement, which documented However, we do not want knives simply to be replaced horrific tales throughout the industry, including threats as the weapon of choice by acid, so I ask the Minister to of rape and sexual abuse. Some of the victims facing consider including the possession of noxious liquids in abhorrent abuse have been children as young as 13. the provisions. That would build on the massive I am sure that the Minister agrees that we do not improvements that both the Ministry of Justice and the want perpetrators of sexual offences to fall through a Home Office have achieved in reducing the number of loophole in this legislation, yet because professional such attacks. wrestling is not classed as a sport and as such does not Finally, we need to counter the serious misinformation have a governing body, it is at risk of doing just that. I that has been spread about proposals in the Bill to place urge the Minister to commit to meeting me and my conditions on demonstrations. The proposed extra powers colleagues in the APPG on wrestling to talk about the are not a ban on protests—far from it. There must potential avenues to include appropriate protections for always be a right to protest, but there must always be young wrestlers in this Bill. rights for those going about their business, too. The Bill Actions speak louder than words. To quote a heroine seeks to balance those competing rights. It will allow of mine, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, on what would protests, vigils, demonstrations and marches, but not have been her 88th birthday: the blocking of bridges or stopping traffic and bringing “Real change, enduring change, happens one step at a time.” cities to a standstill. Protests, yes; causing serious disruption The Government need to recognise that we need to take to others, no. The Labour party’s voting against the Bill that step, and that we are at a crossroads with a real is totally wrong. The message needs to go out loud and opportunity to change the lived reality for women and clear that Labour Members are voting against provisions girls in this country. I plead with the Minister to work to extend sentences for death by dangerous driving, with the Labour party to ensure that women and girls child killers, and serious violence and knife crime. They are safer on our streets and in their homes, to work with should vote for the Bill. us to ensure that the right to protest is not reduced and that voices across the country are not silenced—to work 8.17 pm with us to finally do the right thing.

Alex Davies-Jones () (Lab): The last few 8.21 pm weeks have been incredibly difficult for women across the country. Sarah Everard’s death is utterly tragic. My Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con) [V]: Now then, no one thoughts are with her family and friends, as well as with should feel unsafe in our country, and this Bill will be of all those who have lost a loved one to male violence. great comfort to law-abiding British people who want It is clear to me that Saturday evening in Clapham to see greater powers for our police and tougher sentences was supposed to be a peaceful vigil, not a protest. I have for child murderers, sex offenders, killer drivers and spent the last few weeks speaking to women overwhelmed anyone else who thinks they are above the law. If you by their feelings of grief and anger. I have spoken to cannot live by the rules of our society, then you should those who feel a little less safe on our streets, those who live in a place that has a different set of rules, and that worry about the world in which their daughters will place is prison. The good news is that we are recruiting grow up, and those for whom recent events have brought 10,000 extra prison officers and 20,000 new police officers, back their own experiences of trauma, harassment and and we are building more prisons. violence. Campaigns such as the #MeToo movement Post covid, people want to return to safe streets and have ensured that conversations on abuse and violence safer neighbourhoods. This Bill does that. This Bill are finally reaching the mainstream discourse, yet women ensures that the victims of crime are put first. I find it are not under any illusions. We have spoken out against strange that Labour is talking about tougher sentences male violence in all its forms for decades, and I am for crimes against women, yet in December it tried to frustrated and appalled that only now are we being stop us deporting foreign rapists. One Labour MP said listened to. What is in the Bill for us? How does it we should not deport those criminals in December as it protect us? How does it address the scandalous prosecution was too close to Christmas. I disagree; I thought it was a rates for rape and sexual assault? How does it make great Christmas present. women safer on the streets? The simple answer is: it Labour says that this Bill will remove the right to does nothing. Increasing sentences for serious crimes is protest. Rubbish. This Bill will protect peaceful protests important, but there is little point if criminals never get from being hijacked by trouble-causing agitators. Labour’s to court to be sentenced, as is the case in 99% of rapes. idea of peaceful protests are the ones we saw in Whitehall Instead of prioritising victims, the Bill curbs our rights. last year, where police were attacked, our flag was It makes it harder for us to protest when the Government burned and memorials were damaged, while its own get things wrong and put the protection of statues MPs looked on and said nothing. That was disgraceful. above the protection of women. We have a Home Secretary who is brave enough to While I welcome the measures in clause 45 that will tackle the issue of illegal camps. Those camps have made extend the existing positions of trust offences, some the lives of Ashfield residents a misery. When they are alarming gaps remain. I am hugely concerned that those set up, crime rises, locals feel intimidated and the council 103 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 104

[Lee Anderson] Before I finish, I want to take a moment on someone who is a friend of the police—the police and crime is left with a massive clean-up bill. This Bill puts a stop commissioner for Derbyshire, Hardyal Dhindsa. I was to that nonsense. Police in Ashfield are doing a great extremely proud that my county, Derbyshire, where less job, but I know they are frustrated by short sentences than 5% of residents are BAME, was the first area to and weak bail conditions. This Bill will give our police elect a BAME police and crime commissioner. Five extra powers and the extra confidence they need. years on, we are even prouder. Hardyal promised he I am confused that the shadow Home Secretary said would set up a programme in every village and town in tonight that he agrees with lots of things in the Bill, yet the county. Not only has he done that, but he has met he will vote against it, proving once again that Labour is residents right across our county, while fiercely fighting on the side of the criminals. Before lockdown, residents the corner of our dedicated police both in Government would often see me sat in the front of a police car going and in the media. He has never forgotten who he is there out on patrol and supporting our police, which is in to represent, and if the police get it wrong, as they did sharp contrast to some Labour politicians, who have when Derbyshire police published pictures of dog walkers been seen in the back of police cars on the way to the in the Peak or fined people walking five miles from station. It comes as no surprise to me that Labour will home, he has been quick to be the voice of the people, not support this Bill, after reading this week that there not hidden away from a difficult situation. I hope he are 14 leading Labour politicians who have been arrested, gets people’s support on 6 May. imprisoned or under investigation in the past six months. 8.26 pm There is no wonder we need more prisons. (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con) [V]: This is a substantial and impressive Bill. Many of 8.23 pm the policies in it predate the 2019 general election and some featured in the September 2020 White Paper, so they are Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): We will try to certainly not measures that are being rushed through. It get back to some sense of reality after the nonsense we is difficult, in the space of three minutes, to do justice to have just heard. the 296 pages, 176 clauses and 20 schedules, so let me This is a really important and wide-ranging Bill, and just name check a few of the parts I particularly support. there are many aspects that I and my colleagues welcome. I support putting the police covenant into law at last I start by paying tribute to my hon. Friends the Members and the increase in penalties for assaults on emergency for Halifax (Holly Lynch) and for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) workers. It is incredible that we are having to contemplate for their success in securing the “protect the protectors” that. I support the allowance for police officers faced aspects of this Bill; my right hon. Friend the Member with dangerous high-speed car chases in pursuit of for Warley (John Spellar) for securing reform of the dangerous criminals who are done themselves for dangerous Disclosure and Barring Service; and my hon. Friend the driving; they are just doing their job. I am pleased we Member for Barnsley East (Stephanie Peacock) for her aretougheningprovisionsoncriminaldamagetomemorials, work that has led to the dangerous driving reforms. All especially military memorials. I support tougher penalties those things and more deserve support. It is a testament for causing serious injury by careless or inconsiderate to the Home Secretary’s insatiable desire for conflict driving and tougher sentencing of child murderers. I that a Bill that contains so many measures campaigned support scrapping the early release of terrorist offenders, for and fought for by Labour MPs should still be innovation in probation with the use of curfews and impossible to support. community sentencing, and clamping down on sex tourism. There are lots of sensible, practical and much-awaited What a missed opportunity this Bill is. There is measures in this Bill that the vast majority of our nothing that will make a significant difference on the law-abiding constituents will certainly welcome, but of issue of violence against women and nothing on victim course Labour is voting against all of these tonight. It support, despite what we have just heard from the hon. has not even bothered to table a reasoned amendment Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) about the Tories to let the Bill proceed and then scrutinise it in Committee. being a party that supports victims. Indeed, it considers Apparently, it is just a blanket vote against the whole of protecting statues a greater priority than protecting the Bill and all the measures in it. Labour Members rape victims. The events of this weekend have brought may try to claim that they have objections to the new into sharp relief where a civilised society must allow public demonstration conditions proposed for preventing protest and support our police to keep our streets safe serious disruption to the life of the community or from criminals, not instruct them to arrest peaceful and recklessly causing public nuisance, and they may claim grieving women. that in some way it suppresses free speech, but if they We can easily see why this division is a political really do have such concerns, they should support the strategy of Conservative Members. Listening to speeches Bill and argue for improvements in Committee. However, like that of the hon. Gentleman, it is very clear that they people gluing themselves to tubes to disrupt the whole want to introduce elements that we will all agree with, London underground system, clambering on to planes and then introduce one or two elements that we cannot to shut down airports, preventing an ambulance reaching possibly agree with in order to say that we are preventing an emergency department through protesters, preventing the good parts of this Bill. It is absolute cheap politics, the distribution of a free press, or assaulting police and it is the politics of division. This is a Government officers to get to, violate and vandalise war memorials who have frozen police pay, cut police numbers, and let does nothing to further free speech, free association or criminals off the hook due to backlogs in the courts and any democratic process. Ordinary law-abiding people overcrowding in our prisons. There can be no doubt but should not have to put up with it, and there are many that they are no friends of the police. thresholds and conditions in this Bill. 105 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 106

I specifically welcome measures to extend the definitions Matter protesters as “thugs”, it is no wonder that in relation to those who abuse positions of trust by people up and down the country are alarmed. The crux engaging in sexual activity with minors.The Bill specifically of the matter goes beyond that. The right to protest references sports coaches and faith leaders. However, must be protected or else we find ourselves on an private tutors, including music teachers, are exempt extremely worrying path, with a totalitarian Government from many of the safeguarding checks that we rightly able to silence whoever they choose. expect of mainstream employed teachers. Can we consider Despite the rhetoric, all evidence indicates that this including them, as I tried to do many years ago as Bill is unlikely even to cut crime and to make those Children’s Minister? whom it intends to protect safer. Successive Governments I warmly welcome the measures to criminalise trespass have brought in longer sentences and created even more when it results in unauthorised encampments, causing prison places, and that has not reduced crime or slowed damage in order to access private and community property, the rate of offending. trashes the cricket pitch or village green when it happens, The impact of this Bill will be felt by marginalised and prevents local people using the amenities that they communities more than any other. It will be felt by pay for. To add insult to injury, these unauthorised women, unable to protest at the everyday violence they encampments eventually leave the site scarred with fly- face. It will be felt by ethnic minority communities, tipping, everything from building waste to human waste, Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities, trade unions, and then they come back and repeat it all over again in anti-racist campaigners and climate emergency a few years’ time. It is not acceptable. This Bill will campaigners— clamp down on it at last, and I support it. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I am 8.30 pm afraid we must leave it there. Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me to speak in this 8.33 pm incredible important and timely debate. Those of us who continuously rejected the recent Miss Sarah Dines (Derbyshire Dales) (Con): I welcome Covert Human Intelligence Sources Bill did so partly the Bill and the extensive improvements that it will because of the impact that it would have on the freedom make to the justice and policing systems. I will mention to protest. That freedom is being challenged yet again just a few of the many new provisions that have been the today, through the authoritarian measures proposed in subject of much correspondence to me as the Member this Bill. of Parliament for Derbyshire Dales. This weekend, people across the country watched in I am pleased that the Government have been prepared horror the visual evidence of the disgraceful police action to deliver on their manifesto commitments as opposed towards peaceful attendees of a vigil to mourn the murder to changing them as they go along, as those on the of Sarah Everard and to express a collective anger and Opposition Benches often do. This is what the majority despair that so many women still suffer violence at the of my constituents voted for. I was pleased to hear from hands of men as part of their everyday life. Despite the a fellow MP for Derbyshire, the hon. Member for Government’s attempt to conjure up smoke and mirrors Chesterfield (Mr Perkins). I am disappointed that he earlier today, a spot of damage control if you like, this will not be supporting the Bill, because I fear that he incident exactly demonstrates that there are still serious may well be out of tune with his constituents. questions about the powers that our police forces have, Over decades, the people of Derbyshire Dales have the way that these powers are executed, towards whom been plagued by illegal encampments. The disruption they are targeted, how they are scrutinised, and how and damage caused by these illegal encampments have those with such powers are held to account. hugely distressed my constituents who have often taken The Government regularly express their concern about months to resolve these issues only for them literally to human rights in other countries. If enacted, however, appear again up the road. There have been substantial the Bill before the House today would issues in Ashbourne, Matlock and Bakewell, which have caused huge upset, mess, and expense to Derbyshire “expose already marginalised communities to profiling and disproportionate police powers through the expansion of stop Dales District Council and its good residents. and search, and Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities may The Bill criminalises trespass and strengthens police face increased police enforcement through the criminalisation of powers to tackle unauthorised encampments. Under trespass.” the new legislation, the police will have the power to Those are not my words, but the words of the director seize vehicles, at last and to arrest or fine trespassers of the well-respected human rights organisation, Liberty. who intend to reside on public and private land without Protests are often a space for the most marginalised permission, while ensuring that they are not able to to make their voices heard. In the past year, we have return for at least 12 months. The new criminal offence seen that in the Black Lives Matter protests and we have is much to be welcomed—up to three months in prison seen it over this past weekend. Just as police rode into or £2,500. That is what my constituents, and people protesters on horses last year, so, too, did they violently across most of the country, have been demanding. grab women on Saturday night. I support the provisions to double the maximum Freedom of speech intrinsically linked to the freedom sentence for assaulting an emergency worker from of protest should be enshrined in our legislation so that 12 months to two years. It is ironic that Labour Members it is available to all. The Bill, however, would give the wish to increase sentences for offences such as rape, but Government even more power to decide whether a are intent on voting against those provisions. It makes protest should be allowed to go ahead. Given that our no sense whatsoever. I fully support the extension of the current Home Secretary refers to anti-racist Black Lives law on positions of trust. As a mother of four young 107 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 108

[Miss Sarah Dines] been on miners’ marches where we sang so loudly that the walls rocked. I have often been on Pride marches, men who were once young teenagers, I am reassured when I wondered who on earth gave a gay man a whistle that the Government are at last prepared to do something in the first place. Noise is part of a protest and part of regarding sports coaches and religious leaders, and our freedom. ensure that our children are safe. It is a landmark step forward and I am grateful for it. 8.39 pm On war memorials, I felt sick to the pit of my stomach James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): I was discussing to see Churchill’s statue jeered at and sprayed with cans the Bill with a constituent over the weekend, when, of paint, and I take my hat off to my hon. Friends, bizarrely, she asked me whether I would be disloyal to some of whom are in the Chamber, who cleared it up. I my party. Loyalty is clearly an underrated concept, but am surprised that Labour Members will oppose some this is much less about party loyalty and much more of these common-sense measures, and it is a testament about doing the right thing. Those who claim that this to just how out of touch they are, and how difficult it Bill is anti-conservative, anti-libertarian, anti-democracy will be for them to win the trust of voters. Conservative or even that it seeks to ban peaceful protest are wrong; Members will fulfil our promises, and ensure that the it is actually about the silent majority, promises made in manifesto pledges are kept. our manifesto, law and order, and the need to take this country to where it needs to be. I will be voting it 8.36 pm through. To me, this is one of the most pro-law and order Bills Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I confess that I feel passed in recent decades. It gives police authorities saddened and ashamed nearly every year when we come much more confidence in the job that they have been to International Women’s Day, because we have to trusted to do. It enshrines the police covenant into law, listen, again, to a litany of the number of women who increases the maximum penalty from 12 months to two have been killed by their partner, nearly always in cases years in prison for assaults or battery against emergency of domestic abuse, and sometimes with their child. That workers, ensures that criminal courts have sufficient has been my experience as an MP in the Rhondda, as sentencing powers and, as we have heard, strengthens nearly all the murders that have happened in my patch police powers to tackle unauthorised encampments. It over 20 years have been of that exact same situation. also strengthens the management of sex offenders, and What makes me ashamed is that the situation does not of terrorist risk offenders on licence. seem to improve year on year. I want to focus briefly on one particular aspect of the Perhaps three or four times in my life have I worried Bill—namely,the desecration of war memorials. Alongside for my safety on my way home, and last week I felt my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North ashamed to know so many female friends and constituents (Jonathan Gullis), who is my very good friend, I was who say that that is their experience every time they go one of the signatories to the Desecration of War Memorials home. The Rhondda is remarkably safe. We have a very Bill, which will now been subsumed into law. I thank low level of crime. It is a safe place, yet a poll—not a the Home Secretary, the Lord Chancellor, the Under- scientific poll but one done by a local firm—showed Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member that 84% of women in the Rhondda felt that they had for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk), and many others for all been sexually harassed or been in danger on their way their support. home. We must do a lot more, and we men must walk in Every single war memorial, irrespective of nation, faith women’s shoes—if you don’t mind the pun—a few more or location, serves as a visual reminder of the horrors of times. If that is uncomfortable, all the better. We need to war and the appalling conditions that people face when learn the discomfort that many women go through. fighting for their country. These names are not just an I am delighted that the Bill changes the legislation on inscription on stone, but actual human beings who emergency workers, which I introduced as a private lived, loved and were loved. These heroes had friends Member’s Bill. We had to fight tooth and nail against and families, and were in the prime of their life when the Conservative Government of the day to get it in they were taken, so each memorial bears testimony to place, but lives cut short, the anguish suffered by families, the “more joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth”— potential that was never fulfilled, the children that were and all the rest, and I am delighted that the sinner never born and the guilt suffered by those who did come repenteth and is now sitting on the Front Bench. Of home. That is why we must ensure that all war memorials course it is right to have tough laws against an assault are sufficiently protected in law, and that those who on emergency workers, because an assault on an emergency seek to damage them through wilful ignorance or stupidity worker is an attack on us all. However, we cannot just are brought to justice. This Bill is excellent, and I will change the law; we have to ensure that the police implement not hesitate to vote it through the House. that law, that the Crown Prosecution Service pursues it, and that magistrates feel it is important. I am afraid the 8.42 pm Government have done nothing on that front since 2018. Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab): The Section 25 is about religion and sport and people in a Government published this blockbuster omnibus Bill position of trust, and of course we must deal with that. last week and rushed it through to the Commons, From my experience, I think we must also consider hoping to swell a law and order narrative ahead of the those who coach people in the arts. My worry is about local elections to distract from the Government’swidespread personal freedom, because this is a woolly jumper that failings. Along with many sensible and necessary changes snags easily, and once snagged can readily unravel. We to the law that Labour MPs have called for—on child must be very careful about the noise provision. I have protection, dangerous driving, protecting frontline workers 109 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 110 and supporting deaf people to act as jurors—the Bill I want personally to thank the Home Secretary and acts as a Trojan horse to push through divisive culture Lord Chancellor for our meetings and close work on war issues, including specific offences on damaging this aspect of the legislation. I am troubled to see some statues and cracking down on the public’s right to Labour Members deriding and demeaning this important protest. work. That conflicts directly with the advice given to Ministers somehow did not foresee that law and order the Labour party from a leaked sensitive internal strategy means more than the elements that they have chosen for document, which said that Labour Members should this Bill. It means keeping women safe. It means supporting make “use” of the Union flag and veterans. The fact women who have suffered violence or sexual violence to that the Labour party want to make use of such things, come forward, prosecuting the offenders and achieving rather than being proud enough to believe and willing convictions. It means ensuring that the police and others to fight for them, is embarrassing. in authority are held accountable to the public needs, I have been fortunate to see the incredible work and, yes, it means that the rights to protest, and to undertaken by Staffordshire police locally, whether that express grief and anger,are protected. Is it not a remarkably is by meeting PC Karl Mander and his police dog Audi, sad irony that this Bill claims to protect memorials, but who was stabbed in service, leading to the first conviction could be used to criminalise vigils? under Finn’s law,or walking the beat with PCSO Matthew Of course, Ministers should have been able to foresee Hough-Clewes last week in a local anti-social behaviour that violence against women could return to the top of hotspot. This legislation is important in giving our police the public’s priorities. Sarah Everard’s tragic death has and our courts the powers and guidance they need to resonated so viscerally with women not because it was keep us safe, so I am left baffled by Labour’s position. unique, but because, sadly, it was all too typical; she Desperately scrambling for a reason to vote against, could have been any of us. Last week in the International Labour Members claim the new law will silence lawful Women’s Day debate, my hon. Friend the Member for protests. This is simply not the case. In fact, the Bill Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) read out the list of simply clarifies the existing common law offence of 118 women and girls, aside from Sarah, who were killed public nuisance. As a constituent who emailed me today by men in the past year—one every three days. The real said, question is how women’s safety ever dropped from the “if you are not breaking the law you have nothing to worry top of the agenda, and yet this Bill never once mentions about.” women. However, if someone wants to block roads and stop According to recent figures, 97% of women aged 18 ambulances getting sick people into hospital, or glue to 24 have experienced sexual harassment, yet the Bill themselves to a train so people miss a day’s work, the does nothing to address that scourge. Even fly-tipping police will now be able to take action, preventing eye- could get a longer sentence than stalking. As others watering costs likethe £37 million that Extinction Rebellion’s have pointed out—irrefutably, at a time when less than 3% 2019 protests cost the UK taxpayer. of rapes even reported to the police lead to charges, let alone convictions—rape has effectively been decriminalised. To sum up, when I vote for this Bill, I will be voting Last year, rape prosecutions fell to the lowest level on for tougher sentences for child murderers and sex offenders, record. Even when a conviction is achieved, sentences life sentences for killer drivers, ending the automatic can be as short as five years—half of what the Government early release of the most dangerous criminals, greater think is appropriate for despoiling a statue. Addressing protections for our emergency service workers and delivering this horrifying situation in line with the demands made Kay’s law, which will help to protect women from their today by my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham abusers. Those are the sorts of things that people in West and Penge (Ellie Reeves) should surely be the Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke expect to centrepiece of legislation that is called the Police, Crime, get done, and I will proudly do so. Sentencing and Courts Bill, but the measures she has called for are not even a consideration. I cannot support a Bill that puts protecting monuments ahead of protecting 8.47 pm women. Women need concrete action from this Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC) [V]: I Government, not action on concrete. have looked at what this rushed and punitive Bill will do for Wales, and I have found it wanting. It will infringe 8.45 pm our right to protest, worsen inequality and lead to a yet Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): This more unjust society. This Government are not interested Bill delivers on the manifesto commitments on which in seriously tackling the underlying causes of crime. They the people of Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and would rather overlook the cycle of offending while Talke elected me. I am particularly pleased that the clamping down on dissent. The Labour party’s U-turn Government have adopted proposals from the private from abject abstention to principled opposition within Member’s Bill that my hon. Friend the Member for the space of one hour yesterday showed that its leaders Bracknell (James Sunderland) and I worked on together, also have scant regard for the consequences of the Bill. to ensure that in every town, village or city across our The Government display yet again a wilful ignorance United Kingdom, thugs who desecrate war memorials of devolution, and the Bill’s “designed by England, for will feel the full force of the law. Judges will now be able England” approach will further aggravate the damage to consider more than just the monetary value of damage caused by the jagged edge of justice policy in Wales. It to these sacred memorials to our glorious dead when shows that Wales needs control over justice now more they pass a sentence—which may be a maximum of than ever, so that we can develop a holistic approach 10 years, but that will not be the case in every instance, that interconnects with our health, education and social as some Opposition Members are trying to make out. policies. 111 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 112

[Liz Saville Roberts] communities and ensure that discrimination against those communities is still alive and well as an acceptable The Bill’s erosion of the right to protest is antithetical form of racism in this country. The Bill also extends the to Wales’s values. We have a proud history of protesting definition of “unauthorised encampment”, which in against injustice, from non-conformism to Chartism, effect criminalises the increasing numbers of rough the miners’ strike, Welsh language rights protests and sleepers. the present-day independence movement marches. The I believe the right to protest is sacred in any democracy, right to make peaceful protest against iniquity is something so I will be voting against this Bill, because it is an that lies deep within our culture. The Bill will also assault on our civil liberties, threatens what remains of entrench Wales’s status as a nation of incarceration. our rights to protest, expands stop and search powers Wales has a higher imprisonment rate even than England, and further criminalises Traveller communities. The and one that disproportionately affects black people, Government must think again and listen to the vast who are imprisoned at six times the rate of white people public anger regarding this Bill. I reject the politics of in Wales. The Bill will criminalise more young people division laid out by the Government in this Bill, and I and increase the number of vulnerable women entering ask Members across the House to do the same. prison, yet still tolerate the circumstances in which women such as Wenjing Lin and Sarah Everard were Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Kate was dead killed, all the while doing nothing to address the structural on time, and I will now be strict as far as the time limit is problems of the justice system in Wales, faced with concerned. Please do not exceed it. disproportionate cuts to court numbers and support services. The current system is failing. We could do so much 8.53 pm better in Wales if we had proper control over policing Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland) (Con) [V]: Three and criminal justice. We could deliver a more humane minutes is limited, so I will focus on one core aspect of justice system—one that enables equality, dignity and the Bill. I got my first taste of the criminal justice social justice, and that would allow us to tackle the root system when I was 13. My dad went to the pub and causes of crime, promote community support, tackle never came home after receiving a single blow to the gender-based violence, root out structural racism, give head that killed him instantly. From never really having victims a fair voice and protect our communities by dealings with the criminal justice system, my family was prioritising the complex task of rehabilitation over the thrust into a whirlwind of police meetings, lawyers’ tabloid policing Acts of punishment—and a fair and appointments and court dates, all while trying to deal just Wales for all. This is the nation we can be not if, but with the suffocating grief of losing my dad, and that has when we give ourselves the chance. given me a deep desire to ensure that the criminal justice system works for the victims of crime. 8.50 pm I recently launched an all-party parliamentary group Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab) [V]: During this pandemic, to investigate the rare but damaging phenomenon of the Government have handed enormous powers to the one-punch assaults, with an emphasis on sentencing. I police to enforce lockdown restrictions, leading to a wish now that I had been able to get started earlier to situation where the police are now policing the coronavirus feed in some meaningful and evidence-backed proposals regulations as a public order problem, rather than a to this Bill, but I am grateful to the Justice Secretary public health matter. It has led to dangerous lines being none the less for agreeing to meet next week to discuss crossed. We must not forget that while this type of state the APPG’s work. I hope that together we can make violence was made visible at the weekend, it is the case some progress in delivering a fairer sense of justice for that these tactics have been used to protect powerful the left-behind families of one-punch assault victims. interests throughout our history. It was seen during the The events that followed losing my dad were the miners’ strike, and it was seen last year as a response to darkest times I have ever known, but in those dark times the Black Lives Matter protests. were points of light in the incredible police officers who In a democratic society, policing requires consent and helped to support our family. I particularly pay tribute understanding of the public mood. We are seeing a once again to Karen Cocker and Sue Best, our family huge overreach and a situation where women have been liaison officers, without whom we would not have been criminalised while attending a peaceful vigil. Recent able to navigate the court process with our sanity intact. events have left women feeling even less empowered in After scenes such as those we saw reported at the our society. For the police to say to women, “The way weekend, it becomes somewhat trendy to turn against you can protect yourself is to stay at home”, is just not our police and denigrate those who devote their lives to good enough. keeping us safe. The unfairness of all police being tarred It comes as no surprise that within this Bill there is no with the same brush based on the actions of a tiny mention of women, whereas the word “memorial”appears minority is surely something with which we can empathise eight times. The Bill seeks to ensure that attacking a in this place, given the unfairness of all politicians being statue carries a longer sentence than attacking a woman. held to account for the actions of the worst of us. What kind of message does that send about this Since I was 13, I have had the utmost respect for our Government’s attitude to tackling the endemic issue of police. They run into the face of danger while we run violence against women and girls? away, stand face to face with armed criminals to keep us The Bill disproportionately impacts Gypsy, Roma safe and are at the frontline of major national crises. and Traveller communities by criminalising trespass The national policing wellbeing survey revealed that a and increasing police powers of eviction. It will increase shocking 67% of police officers report post-traumatic the inequalities experienced by Gypsy,Roma and Traveller stress symptoms and that the average officer shows 113 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 114 moderately high symptoms of anxiety. That is why I The Bill is woefully insufficient when it comes to wholeheartedly supported the Conservative party manifesto protection yet overtly hostile in disallowing people their commitment to deliver the police covenant—the people rights and their voice. I came to this Parliament to fight of Bishop Auckland elected me on that commitment, for equality, protect the rights of my constituents and which we will deliver through this Bill. advance justice. It is unconscionable not to stand in the It is our duty to protect the mental health and wellbeing way of the repressive ideology advanced in the Bill. I of the police, just as it is their duty to protect us. The call on the Government to think again and I will vote Bill will make it a legal requirement for the Home against the Bill. Secretary to report to Parliament each year on what steps they are taking on the physical and mental health 8.59 pm and wellbeing of police personnel and their families. Through the Bill, we are also ensuring that our incredible Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab) [V]: The right police officers have the powers they need to keep us safe to take non-violent individual and collective action is and to secure prosecutions. We are seeking to protect fundamental to the functioning of our democracy. The the public and to protect our protectors, both police Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill is being rushed officers and emergency service workers. I finish with a through, and it is ill thought out, with glaring failures, question. What message does it send that the Labour including authoritarian provisions such as those in part 3 party is voting against this? that threaten our right to protest. Restricting the freedom of assembly and association contravenes article 11 of 8.56 pm the Human Rights Act 1998, and significant concerns have been raised by trade unions, human rights groups, Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: lawyers, activists and even the ex-chief constable of Tonight, I pay my respects to the life of Sarah Everard. Greater Manchester. As she grew up in York, her loss is deeply felt by me and my community. The imposition of additional conditions on protests, such as being too noisy,simply look like an anti-democratic Extraordinary liberties have been relinquished to ensure direct attack on particular social movements at odds that we kept safe during this last year, but when our with the Government’s agenda. This Bill represents an liberties are stolen—and, I say this as a woman, at the attack on the public’s freedom of speech, impacting on very time we need them most—the measures in the Bill our fight for race and gender equality, against the can only be described as repressive. We have a justice climate emergency and for improved workers’ rights. system that is institutionally discriminatory against women; Our country has a proud history of collective action, that does not secure high-quality representation for and I want to express my solidarity with those who them, that fails to prosecute the most heinous of crimes, attended Clapham common on Saturday to remember that delays cases for years without survivors being able Sarah Everard and who were treated disgracefully. What to access vital and necessary trauma services, and that we saw contradicts any notion that there needs to be an completely fails to keep women safe. The Home Secretary extension to the powers to oversee protests. Indeed, the was remiss in her opening speech, since the Bill fails former Home Secretary, the right hon. Member for women, fails society and fails to advance our justice. Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), has previously stated that Now is the time when we need to take to the streets and reclaim them, yet the Bill threatens to criminalise us for “legislation already exists to restrict protest activities that cause harm to others.” using our power to force Government and their institutions to change. With economic, social and environmental Instead of ever more draconian powers, effective policing failure, it is our duty to enable people to exercise their requires community consent, and to achieve that, there rights, but part 3 of the Bill restrains them. needs to be greater transparency and accountability for the way that protests are policed. I am pleased that Let me move on to part 4. I shudder at how the David Michael, the Labour Bedfordshire police and Government are drawing on the darkest periods of crime commissioner candidate, who grew up in Luton, history by criminalising Gypsy, Roma and Traveller recognises that and is committed to using his experience communities. This demonstrates that the hostile in the police, together with his understanding of our environment continues to fester in the Home Office, community, to ensure trust between Bedfordshire police and it must be called out. and the community it serves. Before I close, I want to focus on clause 45. I have made a number of representations to Justice and Home Office Placing more restrictions on people’s ability to gather Ministers, so they will know what I am about to say. It is and protest will not make the public safer. In fact, it is not just in sport and religious settings where young the opposite. It will trample on our ability to stand up people have been groomed and abused. My constituent for our human rights and against injustice. The Home received private tuition—music coaching—and was Secretary focused her remarks on wanting to support groomed for two years before being raped. Her case was women to feel safe while walking down the street, but one of the 99% of rape cases reported, but not prosecuted. heaven forbid we do so a bit too noisily, a bit too Her perpetrator, now known for sexual impropriety, annoyingly or a bit too near our elected representatives had no DBS check. If he had, she would have been safe. in order to stand up for our human rights. She was failed, and the Bill fails her and many more. All Individual and collective action is something to be private tuition settings need full safeguarding checks celebrated and encouraged in a functioning democracy. and measures to be introduced. Secondly, host families I owe it to the women role models who stood up for of international students accommodate young people what they believed in and shaped my political awareness of different cultures and language.They need the protections as a teenager—be it those at the Greenham common covered by clause 45 too. I trust that the Minister will women’s peace camp, the Women Against Pit Closures support such amendments. or those marching against apartheid in South Africa—as 115 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 116

[Rachel Hopkins] By making it an offence to cause serious annoyance or inconvenience, the Bill restricts our fundamental much as I owe it to those women now or who will come rights to freedom of assembly and expression and effectively after me, to not let our right to protest, be it noisy or removes our collective ability to fight back against state annoying, be slowly eroded. abuses of power. The proposals for a new serious violence reduction order will provide greater power to stop and 9.2 pm search a person at any time, in any place and completely free of suspicion. There are major criticisms of current Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): stop-and-search powers, which impact disproportionately I am glad to be speaking about this eagerly awaited on black people, particularly in my city of Liverpool. A Bill because of its importance for the residents of recent Home Office report identified that black people Wolverhampton. I have campaigned and will continue are 2.7 times more likely to be victims of stop and to do so for a safer and cleaner Wolverhampton. I want search and three times more likely to have force used the residents to be able to walk clean streets day or night against them. The police do not need more of these and feel safe. powers, which will not protect us. I fully support the Bill and know that it will be Some of the Bill’s most disturbing clauses attack the welcomed by many of my constituents. I believe in nomadic lives of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities tougher sentencing for child murderers and sex offenders. by criminalising unauthorised encampments and I approve of the crackdown on knife crime and violent establishing trespass as a criminal offence. The proposals crime, especially to protect emergency workers. Last are discriminatory and potentially unlawful. The year, I conducted a community survey. One of the top Government’s own consultation on extending the powers areas of concern for my residents—even in a pandemic— showed that even the majority of the police respondents was crime. Residents are always getting in touch with to the consultation think the crackdown is the wrong me about different issues that the Bill addresses. They approach. GRT communities are among the most do not want to see thefts, fly-tipping and unauthorised persecuted and marginalised. In Liverpool, we have a encampments, and that last point has probably caused large permanent settlement of GRT families living in me more work than anything as an MP. my constituency. They face systemic discrimination and Wolverhampton has beautiful parks such as Bantock routine violence. Instead of supporting these communities, and West Park, and over the years, these have been who already face some of the starkest inequalities, the home to unauthorised encampments. I want to make it Government seem hellbent on introducing tougher powers clear that the majority of the Traveller community are to act against them. law-abiding citizens who cause no trouble in the local The Government’s approach to public safety is community. We in Wolverhampton did see that, but we fundamentally flawed: it is rooted in discrimination have also experienced major problems. To deal with against communities and restrictions to our freedoms that, Wolverhampton Council took out an injunction, rather than a serious attempt to tackle the problems giving it extra powers to move unauthorised encampments. that we face. I appeal to Members from all parties in the Part of the injunction was to build a transit site. I have House to ensure that this weekend’s horrific scenes no problem with that, and I understand that there needs mark a serious turning point. The draconian powers in to be a place for the Traveller community to visit. The the Bill must be torn up and a new approach to public site chosen was Gorsebrook Road in Dunstall, which is safety must be pursued—one that puts safety, welfare, still one of the most deprived areas in Wolverhampton. justice and accountability at its heart. It was not welcomed by the residents or by the Traveller community. The cost to build the transit site, in an area that I have championed as a nature trail for local schools and residents, is £1 million. The Bill will negate 9.8 pm the need for an injunction at the transit site in its Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con) [V]: The first duty current form. I know that work is under way, but I will of any Government must be to protect the public and continue to ask City of Wolverhampton Council, as I keep local communities safe. I know that that belief is do again now, to pause the work, wait for the legislation shared by many in my constituency, so I welcome this to be passed, save money, develop the nature trail and important Bill, which introduces a comprehensive package build a legacy for generations to come. of measures to achieve just that. Every day, police officers and those in the emergency services put themselves 9.5 pm in dangerous situations to keep us safe.Although legislation Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab) [V]: The is in place for the most serious of crimes in this policy scenes at Clapham common this weekend exposed a area, the sentencing for assaults is too weak. We have a disgraceful abuse of power by the Metropolitan police. responsibility to ensure that the police and emergency However, for too many of us, the scenes did not shock; services can carry out their day-to-day duties as safely they have become worryingly familiar. From the miners as possible. The Bill will help to achieve that. protesting at Orgreave and elsewhere in the 1980s to the There are many facets to the Bill, but I wish to focus climate change and Black Lives Matter protests last on two particular aspects: bringing people to justice year, the violent crackdown by police on peaceful and reducing reoffending. I have been pursuing these demonstrators exercising their right to protest has issues on behalf of Loughborough since I became an been routine, systematic and deliberate. Such actions MP and I did so some years ago when I was fortunate raise the fundamental questions: who do the police enough to chair a panel on reducing reoffending on protect and who do they serve? This weekend, it was behalf of Charnwood Borough Council. I refer the abundantly clear that the answer to both questions was House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial not women. Interests. 117 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 118

Let me turn first to the removal of the presumption The challenge to some of those on the Government Benches of release pending investigation and the presumption in who have claimed to be acting in the name of liberty favour of pre-charge bail conditions, otherwise known over the last few months is this: will you oppose the Bill, as Kay’s law. The change will provide a duty to protect or does liberty only matter to you when it is your liberty victims and will enable the setting of conditions while and not the liberty of those you disagree with? further investigations are undertaken. This is vital both Moving on, I want to use my brief time to speak to to the safety of the victim and to encourage the reporting part 1 of the Bill and its measures concerning the police of crimes with the knowledge that bail conditions can service. Enshrining the duty of the Home Secretary to be imposed to help to safeguard the victim. produce a police covenant report in law is a very important I received a number of emails from my constituents step for police officers around the country. It is about who are very concerned about sentencing and I have to recognising the realities of policing and the impact it agree with them that more needs to be done to ensure can have on those who undertake those duties. As that those convicted of the most serious crimes receive someone who comes from a policing family, I have seen appropriate sentences and spend more of their sentences that first-hand. My father, husband and I were all actually in prison. That will not only restore public assaulted in the course of our duties. This year’s Armed confidence in the justice system, but crucially ensure Forces Bill legislates for a duty for public bodies to have that victims, who sadly often bear physical and mental due regard to the principles of that covenant. That is scars of their experience, receive the justice they deserve. not something that this Bill is introducing for the police Sentencing, however, is only one side of the coin. I covenant and I would be grateful for further clarification welcome that the Bill also places a strong emphasis on on whether the Government might look to do similar in action to reduce reoffending. If we are to break the relation to the covenant in future. cycle of reoffending, we must ensure that offenders have There are other positive steps in the Bill, such as every opportunity to break the vicious circle of repeat legislating to allow special constables to join the Police crime, giving them the chance to get their lives back on Federation. The work of special constables is vital, both track and so reducing the social and economic cost to as volunteers and in giving back to local communities. our communities. The £3 million Newham pilot for In carrying out frontline duties, they face the same youth offenders, set to start in July, is one good example dangers and experiences that appointed police officers of work to reduce reoffending. The curfew orders set face. I also support the introduction of road traffic out in the Bill, and the ability to vary those orders, are fixed penalty notices in Scotland, as it is good to have another excellent example, ensuring people have a role UK-wide alignment. in, and can contribute positively to, society. Work is one Finally, I turn to the Government’s proposal to double of the best ways to draw them away from a life of crime. the maximum sentence for assaulting emergency workers. I strongly believe that, taken together, the measures Is an increased penalty for that actually going to reduce in the Bill will have a significant impact on reducing assaults on the police? Is somebody in the heat of the crime and protecting not only the public, but our fantastic moment going to think, “I’m going to get two years for emergency workers. I will therefore be supporting the this, as opposed to 12 months?” I doubt that it will. Bill. Instead, I worry that there is a risk of getting into a competition, whereby assaulting someone in a particular role means a higher penalty. The fundamental aspect is 9.11 pm policing by consent. If we create the right community Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD): Like so culture, it should not matter what the penalty is, because many others, I was shocked and appalled by the events the incidence of such crimes should reduce regardless. on Clapham common on Saturday night. It is an outrage Our policies on crimes should not be dictated by what that a peaceful vigil in memory of Sarah Everard was plays well to the gallery—they should be evidence-based. shut down because the Met determined not to engage with organisers to ensure that the vigil could pass off 9.14 pm safely. It is very difficult to see how the Met could have got it more wrong, and I say that, as many in this House (Meriden) (Con) [V]: I would like to will know, as a former police officer. The leadership start by paying tribute to Sarah Everard, and my thoughts have let down rank and file officers and, despite what are with her loved ones and her family. For too long we those on the Government Benches might say, it is right have seen women live in fear, and this Bill is one way in that Cressida Dick should consider her position. which we can start to make our streets and our society safer. It does feel, after last week, that there has been a However, there has also been a failure of Government. renewed conversation about the safety of woman, and I For the past year,the Government have sustained legislation hope that Sarah’s death has not been in vain. which prevents people from exercising their fundamental right to protest. That is why my Liberal Democrat This Bill, along with the Domestic Abuse Bill, ought colleagues and I will vote against the renewal of the to go a long way in making the world a safer place for when it comes back before the women, but we must not be complacent and we must be House, just as we did in September. Our rights matter resolute in this journey. On the latter Bill, I particularly and the right to protest matters, too. This is a Bill welcome the amendment about threatening revenge porn, which, just when we should be considering how we and I hope social media companies and other platforms dismantle restrictions on the right to protest in the will play their part in ensuring that revenge porn and name of public health, instead doubles down on them. non-consensual content are banned. The Home Secretary had strong words about the scenes I must commend the Government for bringing forward on Saturday, but the reality is that this hastily pulled this legislation and delivering on a manifesto commitment. together legislation will make such scenes more common. As I talk to local residents across my constituency, there 119 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 120

[Saqib Bhatti] we must give them the protections they need, such as doubling maximum sentences for assaults. How could is one thing in common that they expect. It is that our anyone not support these measures, given that they justice system should be made fair—fair to the victims frequently put themselves at great risk to keep us safe? of crime, fair to the local community and offering fair I fully support the new police covenant, which ensures justice to offenders. In particular, I applaud the removal that serving and retired officers and their families are of the automatic halfway release. This Bill ensures that properly supported. I know my constituents in Stoke- those who commit the most heinous of crimes will on-Trent are extremely concerned about more serious spend more time in prison, so that their victims do not criminals. Although crime is generally down, it is worrying feel short-changed. That is the right thing to do. that crimes committed in Stoke-on-Trent are becoming I welcome the focus on rehabilitation in this Bill, as in more serious.Especially concerning are the repeat offenders, my view society should always be conscious of why we and I welcome serious violence reduction orders to choose to imprison people in the way we do. I am a big target persistent offenders. The Government’s safer streets believer in global Britain and our place in the world. It initiative in Fenton is particularly important locally, was , the then Home Secretary, who improving household security so that people feel safe in said that a society’s attitude towards its prisoners, its their own homes. “criminals”, is the measure of No one should ever feel unsafe, not least women and “the stored-up strength of a nation”.—[Official Report, 20 July 1910; children. It is totally unacceptable that any woman Vol. 19, c. 1356.] should be too scared of going out at night or should But this is also an act of common and economic sense. expect to be regularly harassed. I very much welcome There is little point in ensuring that sentences are fully the Home Secretary reopening the survey on tackling served at the taxpayer’s expense if, on release, a person violence against women and girls. It is most worrying is likely to reoffend. A jail sentence should not be a that Opposition Members do not support measures gateway to reoffending or graduating to a more serious targeting the most serious offenders, including those crime. This conveyor belt to crime costs almost £18 billion committing serious violence and sexual offences. This to the taxpayer, which is why I am also pleased to see a Bill ends automatic early releases, keeping dangerous greater emphasis on rehabilitation through greater support criminals off our streets. It also encourages stricter for the probation service and targeted measures such as conditions on bail in high-harm cases and extends curfews, community sentencing and better technology protections against sexual conduct by those in positions to ensure sustained rehabilitation. of authority.Figures of authority must not abuse positions Of course, prisons must serve their purpose for society of trust through such despicable behaviour. A lack of in full—the delivery of justice must be fair, and it must trusted positive role models often drives young people be equitable—but we as legislators should not forget into gangs, drugs and violence because they believe that our duty in supporting offenders in turning their lives they will be somehow more secure. That cycle must be around. Once the victims of crime receive justice, to broken down in Stoke-on-Trent and across the country. show compassion through rehabilitation speaks to our strength as a society—the very same strength that Winston 9.19 pm Churchill once spoke of. (Hyndburn) (Con): Can I first say, on 9.16 pm using women as a reason to vote against the Bill, that I spoke about my own personal experiences last week? I (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Con): I pay remind those on the Opposition Benches that women tribute to Staffordshire police for their hard work and and men are equal in law, so it all applies to women. professionalism throughout covid. Local emergency services have given their all, often at high personal risk, particularly I want to raise the concerns of my constituents about paramedics in responding to medical needs. I am truly the fundamental right to peaceful protest. It is important grateful for their work, and their dedication brings us to make one thing clear: the Bill includes nothing that ever closer to a safe lifting of lockdown. Our policing is will threaten the genuine rights of people to engage in by consent, and I know that officers in Staffordshire protests. What it does is address all those people who hold this in great importance. In Stoke-on-Trent, officers glue themselves to trains and buses, and block access to have taken a measured approach based on the four hospitals when somebody could need life-saving treatment. Es—engage, explain, encourage and enforce. The Those protests are not simply inconvenient; they make comparatively low covid fines in Staffordshire demonstrate life intolerable for people living or working around that enforcement is a last resort. them. This is about balancing the genuine and fundamental right that we shall have to protest. In short, the checks The images we saw over the weekend at Clapham and balances remain firmly in place. I hope that the common were disturbing for us all, and this should be Minister in summing up will confirm that that is correct. thoroughly investigated, but I do not think it right to impede the progress of this important Bill. Our freedom- Like women and men up and down this country, my loving democratic values enshrine rights to peaceful colleagues on the Government Benches believe in law protest, and this Bill does not curtail that. Manyconstituents and order and giving our police the tools that they have have contacted me over the last year after seeing the asked for—the right tools for the job. The Bill delivers wanton vandalism and obstruction of ambulances. This on that pledge. I will briefly touch on some of its key totally reckless behaviour of a minority demonstrates points. the need to update measures, such as putting static The Bill extends whole-life orders for the premeditated protests on the same footing as moving demonstrations. murder of a child and ends the automatic early release Emergency service workers frequently put themselves in of dangerous criminals. It introduces life sentences for harm’s way in protecting and saving lives of others, and killer drivers—those who cause fatal accidents while 121 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 122 speeding and racing. It doubles the maximum sentence this in the wrestling industry, and she and I have spent for assaulting emergency workers. It protects communities many hours discussing it. In her remarks, she asked for from illegal Traveller sites being set up. It introduces a meeting with the Minister on some of the specifics tougher community sentences, and it brings in Kay’s around that, and I echo that call. law to better protect victims and witnesses in cases of This is a brilliant step in the right direction. It is the violent and sexual offences. It also ensures that those kind of legislation that the people in Bolsover voted for, who desecrate our war memorials face the full force of and I look forward to supporting the Bill. law after what we witnessed with the Churchill monument and others last year. 9.25 pm I want to tackle those issues and bring in measures that protect my constituents and make our streets safer. Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con) That is why I will support the Bill’s Second Reading, to [V]: I join the Home Secretary and colleagues in sending allow it to move to Committee where it will be fully my condolences to the friends and family of Sarah scrutinised. It appals me that the Labour party will vote Everard. This Bill delivers on our manifesto commitment— against a Bill that will bring tougher sentences and the one that I stood on in Carshalton and Wallington, protect people such as my constituents in Hyndburn and so did many others—to toughen up sentences for and Haslingden. That once again highlights why so the most dangerous criminals and reform the criminal many turned their backs on Labour as it continues to justice system. turn its back on the wants and needs of constituents Of the many welcome measures contained in the Bill, such as mine. I will support the Bill, as I wholeheartedly I particularly welcome measures such as extending whole-life believe that we should punish criminals. orders for the premeditated murder of a child and ending the early automatic release of dangerous criminals, 9.22 pm which will keep the perpetrators of the most heinous crimes off our streets. I know, from the countless times that I Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con): It is a pleasure to have been told that the criminal justice system is too lenient, follow my hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn that my constituents will also welcome the tougher (Sara Britcliffe). sentences for the most dangerous criminals,the introduction In the winter of 2019, through the wonderful weather of life sentences for killer drivers, the doubling of the we had—the snow and the rain—as I knocked on doors maximum sentence for assaulting an emergency worker across Bolsover and in South Normanton and Clowne, and the introduction of Kay’s law to better protect victims there were three common refrains. The first was: get and witnesses in cases of violent and sexual offences. It Brexit done. The second was the remarkable leadership is because of the campaigning efforts of those victims of the Labour party under the right hon. Member for and their families that I will support the Bill. Islington North (). The third was crime Like me, many colleagues will have met and heard and the sense of unfairness. There was a sense that stories of grieving families from their own constituencies, those who do not live by the rules seemed to get away angry at what they have seen as a lenient sentence. I with it; they were not properly punished. The Bill is a remember reading one story just last year of a young tremendous step in the right direction, delivering on the man who tragically lost his life in Carshalton after manifesto commitments that we stood on and making being hit by a driver who was later arrested on suspicion sure that those who commit some of the worst crimes of being drunk behind the wheel. This Bill will ensure are properly punished. that in cases such as this, the punishment fits the crime. I welcome the fact that we are enshrining the police Additionally, I know that residents across the London covenant in law. It must be an absolutely monstrous borough of Sutton will particularly welcome criminalising time to be a police officer, trying to uphold the law in trespass and strengthening powers to tackle unauthorised such difficult circumstances throughout the covid period. encampments. Only recently, Carshalton and Wallington I have spoken regularly to police officers and the leadership residents were incredibly frustrated when an encampment in Derbyshire, and they have done a remarkable job. I jumped from local park to local park, causing harm, am delighted that we have their backs and are enshrining disruption and distress as it went, yet progress on the police covenant in law. removing this encampment was incredibly slow because We are doubling the maximum sentence for assaults of the limitations around the existing law.These measures on emergency workers. Those who serve our communities will make it much easier to deal with that. with such distinction and such honour should not be This Bill does deliver on our manifesto commitment, the victims of assault full stop, but those who commit so I am dismayed that Opposition Members are finding such crimes should be punished. That is absolutely the ways to try to oppose these important measures. The right thing to do. wording in the Bill is complemented by case law, and We are introducing criminal penalties for unauthorised clearly defined principles are being put on to the statute Traveller encampments—that will be welcomed across book at the request of the independent Law Commission. Derbyshire—and whole-life orders for premeditated The Bill is there to stop scenes like those we saw last murders of children. That is exactly what residents in year of protestors blocking ambulances, and not to ban Bolsover want to see. peaceful protests, so it is no good Labour or Lib Dem We have not had a lot of cross-party love today, so I Members saying that they agree with parts of the Bill if must confess, I am the co-chairman of the all-party they are not going to support it. Weshould be unapologetic group on wrestling along with my friend the hon. Member in standing up for victims of crime and their families, for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones). In her remarks, she combined with the efforts that the Government are mentioned that she welcomes the scope of offences in already making to put more police on our streets and work the Sexual Offences Act in relation to the abuse of on prevention. For that reason, I will support the positions of trust. We are particularly concerned about Bill tomorrow. 123 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 124

9.28 pm certain community and suspended sentences. This aims Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Con) to ensure that there is more tailored, intensive and [V]: The first duty of any Government is to keep people structured support to rehabilitate offenders in the safe. Although recent events have been shocking, we are community. Employment opportunities for reformed fortunate to live in a country where citizens are offenders will also be improved by the Bill. overwhelmingly law-abiding, but as times change, crimes The Bill outlines several measures that will allow the change, and it is important that we continue to update courts to return to normal as soon as possible and cut and amend legislation to make sure that our constituents into the backlog. Virtual juries were trialled with huge not only are safe, but feel safe. success on four occasions last year by the international Any new criminal legislation should do four important fair trials organisation Justice, most notably in Wimbledon. things: it should discourage crime, improve detection “Wimbledon juries”, as they should perhaps become and prosecution, make punishments effective and reduce known, were subject to research and authentication by the chances of reoffending. I welcome this Bill, as I the , and the trials proved that believe that it will strengthen the law in all those areas. they were, in many ways, as effective in executing their The Bill will certainly act to discourage crime, with the responsibilities as juries in courtrooms. They can be introduction of whole-life orders for child killers and inexpensive and can return juries to their historic origins, new powers to halt the automatic early release of offenders based in communities. who pose a danger to the public. Potential offenders can The Bill also makes changes to police powers over be in no doubt that this Government are committed to protests. I have been looking carefully at those parts of making sure that serious crimes will be met with serious the Bill, and I know that they will be examined in sentences. By increasing the efficiency of the courts, the greater detail in Committee. However,it is clear,especially Bill will also reduce delays and improve prosecution rates. with the background of current covid legislation, that I know from the experiences of my constituents this those who enforce this legislation need to be clear as to year—both those accused of crime and those who have its framework. been victims—how devastating delays to justice can be. The language of clause 59(2) is central. The language of I welcome the Bill’s provisions to punish certain “distress” and “loss of amenity” is familiar to the courts, crimes, particularly serious driving offences and assaults but “serious annoyance” and “serious inconvenience” on our brave police and emergency workers, more robustly. are unfamiliar to the courts. I know that “annoyance” I also believe that the Bill will be effective in reducing has been used in public order Acts in Ireland, I think in the chances of reoffending, with more community orders Austria and perhaps elsewhere, but I would welcome a ensuring that offenders do not lose jobs and family very clear definition here. We need to help our police relationships as a result of their punishments, making it decide what these words mean, and we need to let those more likely that they can rebuild their lives without that they will cover know what they mean. Similarly, resorting to further criminal behaviour. However, for “noise” from a protest that could some offenders who have served their time, returning to “result in serious disruption to the activities of an organisation” their community and their previous relationships can be needs to be more clearly defined so that it does not a factor that actually increases their chance of reoffending. catch the sort of chanting that one would normally For those people, escaping that context and getting a expect at a protest. can offer them the best chance of building a crime-free life. Finally,I welcome that the Home Secretary has instructed Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary to investigate Northern College in my constituency, one of only the policing at the Clapham vigil. I welcome confirmation four residential adult education colleges, specialises in from her that there are aspects to be investigated and giving vulnerable adults, including those who have served that she intends the extended consultation to ensure prison sentences, a second chance at education. Set in that the justice system provides confidence for the victims. the stunning and inspiring grounds of Wentworth castle, Therefore, one should look at this Bill in the whole and it offers students high-quality teaching alongside counselling it should be supported. and support. In such a positive and focused environment, the outcomes are incredible, with students achieving GCSEs, A-levels and even higher education qualifications, 9.34 pm and going on to gain good jobs and live fulfilling lives. Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con): I welcome this Bill, For many ex-offenders, full rehabilitation requires a which fulfils manifesto promises on which I was elected second chance at education, which so many of us take and demonstrates this Government’s firm commitment for granted, so I wonder whether the Minister would be to law and order. I declare relevant interests: prior to my willing to meet me to discuss the role that Northern election, I spent 12 years as a magistrate, and was a College could play. This is an excellent Bill that meets board member of the YouthJustice Board, a member of many of our manifesto commitments, and it has my full the Sentencing Council and a non-executive director of support. Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service. There are undoubtedly offenders who pose a clear 9.31 pm and present danger, and they must remain in prison for Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con) [V]: This is as long as it takes for them to cease being a threat to the an extremely wide-ranging Bill. I have raised in the public. I therefore welcome moves to lengthen custodial House a number of times the reform of rehabilitation. sentences for certain very serious offences and to extend This Bill will give the courts powers to give alternatives the time that must be served before automatic release to custody for youth offenders, by piloting changes to applies. This also represents an important step towards youth rehabilitation orders. For adult offenders, a increased public confidence in sentencing, which is not “problem-solving court approach” will be piloted for always as transparent as it might be. 125 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 126

I want to see fewer victims of crime. Key to achieving in law, strengthening support for serving and retired that is cutting reoffending, which accounts for some officers. I know that unauthorised encampments can 80% of offences at the moment. Prison is not always the cause a great deal of stress and inconvenience, as I saw best place to achieve the greatest prospect of rehabilitation, in my constituency, in Colwick, a little while ago, as well so I am glad to see pilots of problem solving courts, and as disruption and damage. The power to seize vehicles I hope they will be especially targeted at young adults. I and arrest or fine trespassers who attempt to reside on am pleased that community orders will be made more private and public land without permission will, no robust, not least by extending the maximum curfew doubt, be reassuring. hours to 20 a day. I believe that home detention is a tool It is also important to state that the Bill will not stop we should increasingly look to, as technology continues the right to protest. The right to demonstrate is a to develop at a pace that can provide many of the hard-fought one, and it will continue. A number of reassurances on security and monitoring behaviour that constituents have written to me regarding clause 59, but would not have been possible even 10 years ago. it is important to note that this is a component of the There are welcome changes to the youth justice system existing common law offence of causing a public nuisance, here; reducing the use of remand in custody for children which is being put on to a statutory footing following is the right thing to do. I am pleased to see changes to recommendations by the Law Commission in its 2016 the intensive supervision and surveillance programmes, report on the simplification of criminal law. All in all, and I support the proposals to make detention and this is a Bill that makes good on several commitments training orders more flexible. The Bill eliminates many made in the manifesto on which I stood for election in anomalies in previous legislation, and I would welcome 2019. I am pleased to support it and I look forward to the Government giving further consideration to one its passage in the House. anomaly that I highlighted in my recent ten-minute rule Bill: that children who commit an offence as a child but 9.40 pm turn 18 before getting to court are treated as adults at both trial and sentence. The risk of this happening has (Congleton) (Con) [V]: Freedom of assembly been exacerbated by delays caused by covid, and those and of expression are fundamental rights that are hard- delays vary greatly between different parts of the country, fought and hard-won but easily lost or damaged if we resulting in a postcode lottery that is fundamentally legislate in haste. I want to focus on clauses 54 to 56 and unjust and yet can have lifelong consequences. Although 59 to 60, which would make significant changes to there has not been time to incorporate my proposal into police powers to respond to protest. They would, for the Bill at this stage, I am grateful to my right hon. and example, significantly lower the legal test for the police learned Friend the Lord Chancellor for meeting me to to issue conditions on protest. The term “serious unease” discuss how, with appropriate safeguards, some of its is a significant departure, reducing the test for the aims might be achieved. I hope that the Government threshold of harm so as to potentially capture peaceful might still be persuaded that this Bill provides such an protest that a claimant considers objectionable. opportunity. I am confident that that could be achieved Clause 54 would give the Secretary of State powers to without conflicting with other very important proposals further define the meaning of in this Bill. “serious disruption to the activities of an organisation”, Three minutes is a short time in which to discuss a which could significantly curtail the activities of peaceful Bill of 300 pages. Of course, I do not claim to have pro-life vigils outside abortion centres. Organisations addressed element of it in my remarks, nor do I claim such as the British Pregnancy Advisory Service and that the Bill is perfect in every way, but I firmly believe it MSI complain of harassment or intimidation, but this represents a step change to tackle crime more effectively is rarely, if ever, supported by evidence. The test of and so make the British public safer. “serious disruption”could remove the objectivity normally required for criminal prosecution and place the emphasis 9.37 pm instead on the perception of an organisation. This has potentially far-reaching implications for the fundamental Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con) [V]: May I, first, associate rights of those with non-mainstream views to assemble myself with the sympathy expressed by my right hon. and express their views, and it is incumbent on this Friend the Home Secretary to Sarah Everard’s family at House to defend those rights, however much we approve the outset of this debate? When this Bill comes to a vote or disapprove of such views. tomorrow I will be supporting it. I will be supporting a Bill that will ensure stronger sentences for child murderers, Clause 59, by abolishing the common law offence of rapists, violent offenders, dangerous drivers, child abusers, public nuisance and replacing it with a new statutory burglars, drug dealers, knife carriers and those who offence of desecrate our memorials. The Labour party will be “intentionally or recklessly causing public nuisance”, voting against those stronger sentences. Labour, having needs to be carefully scrutinised to ensure that there are previously said that the legislation does not go far clear definitions of terms such as “serious annoyance”, enough, will now vote against all of that, in an astonishing “serious inconvenience”and rights common to the public. U-turn. It will also be voting against increased sentences The word “impact” in relation to static protests is ill for those who assault our emergency service workers. defined and too open to interpretation, and on-the-spot This is a wide-ranging piece of legislation that will, assessments could increase unjustifiable interference with quite reasonably, update public order legislation that is fundamental rights. now 35 years old. In the short time in which I have to Concerningly, removing intentionality from the offence speak this evening, I am unable to cover the breadth of of failing to comply with a condition issued by the this Bill, but I will pick out a couple of points. I am police on a protest means that the police will be able to pleased to see that the police covenant is to be enshrined enforce the law based on their subjective interpretation 127 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 128

[Fiona Bruce] 9.46 pm Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) (Con) [V]: Many of what the alleged offender should have known. Allowing constituents have shared their frustrations with me over the police to issue conditions on one-person protests, the issue of illegal encampments.Although many Travellers rather than the current two, potentially brings into scope are law-abiding citizens, illegal sites can cause distress street preachers, but it should be recalled that prosecutions and misery to those who live nearby. They also play against street preachers have invariably failed due to havoc with local sports clubs and businesses and the Bill falling foul of freedom of speech rights. Without will put a stop to that. I am pleased that these measures amendment, the Bill could increase police apprehension are proportionate and that we have taken steps to of otherwise lawful speech and could have a profoundly ensure that those exercising their rights to enjoy the chilling effect on free speech more widely. I hope that countryside are not inadvertently impacted. the Committee and the other place will have sufficient time to carefully scrutinise this significant Bill. Some people are claiming that the Bill will somehow stop people’s right to protest, and that is simply not true. What makes it worse is that some are trying to link 9.43 pm it with temporary covid restrictions, which is a completely Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con): I will have no separate issue. Whatever the rights and wrongs of recent hesitation in supporting the Bill when it comes to a vote events, it is abhorrent and totally wrong for groups to tomorrow,because it delivers on so many of the manifesto try to use a tragic incident as a smokescreen to oppose promises I made to residents across Burnley and Padiham. legislation that they do not like. This legislation means It starts by toughening up the sentences for drink and tougher sentences for child murderers, sex offenders, drug drivers who kill while under the influence, for killer drivers and those attacking emergency service criminals who assault our emergency service workers workers. By campaigning against this Bill, they are also and for those in positions of trust who groom children campaigning against these measures. for exploitation. It does all this while also tackling The Bill is also designed to stop the behaviour of unauthorised Traveller camps that show no regard for extremist groups such as Extinction Rebellion or BLM local residents and planning systems, and so much causing serious disruption by stopping trains running more. What’s not to like in this Bill? or by gluing themselves to buses. Serious disruption is a There is so much in the Bill, but I will keep my remarks well-established and defined concept. The changes bring to just a small number of areas. The first is the desecration static protests in line with equivalent provisions that of war memorials. I have been incredibly disappointed apply to marches or processions under section 12 of the to hear Labour MPs indicate that this provision does Public Order Act 1986. For example, a protest does not not matter, because it does. We have some fantastic cause serious disruption just because it may distract memorials in Burnley, not least the cenotaph in Towneley employees in a nearby office, and nor would a peaceful Park and the memorials to so many others in our vigil in a park cause serious disruption. villages such as Hopton and Worsthorne. The images Examples of things that could cause serious disruption that we saw last year of our national cenotaph being might include blocking a bridge or a road to stop targeted caused hurt, upset and anger. That is why this pedestrians or traffic getting through. We saw that matters. I am really pleased that the Government have happen when Extinction Rebellion decided to block recognised the strength of feeling on this and introduced Westminster Bridge. While these people were dancing tougher sentences as a result. and having fun, ambulances needed to be diverted and The Bill also delivers on our promise to bring in a cancer patients had to walk to hospital instead. Another smarter, more credible sentencing system. It is one that example of serious disruption might also include preventing deals with the most serious violent offenders by ending a train from leaving a station. What sort of organisation the automatic release at the halfway point, that tackles claims that it wants to stop climate change and then repeat offenders that blight our communities, and that prevents people from using public transport? People makes youth rehabilitation orders more effective at from those organisations do not understand the value reducing youth offending. of a proper day’s work. I spent some time before coming to this place mentoring People physically preventing a printing press from young offenders when they were in prison, and I have operating because they disagree with the editorial position no doubt that this will make a difference. I have, however, of that publication is another example of serious disruption. received emails from concerned constituents about the These people talk of freedoms yet attack freedom of protest provisions in the Bill. Let us be clear: nothing in speech and the freedom of our press, including titles the Bill alters a person’s fundamental right to protest and such as , The Times, , the make their voice heard. However, the right to protest does Daily Mail and the London Standard. This is not just an not give anyone the right to block an ambulance going attack on them, but on all our media. to a hospital; it does not give anyone the right to stop Our freedoms are precious and we must do everything someone going to work to earn a living; and it does not we can to ensure that freedom is enjoyed by all and not bring with it the right for a person to stop a newspaper hijacked by these groups. This Bill, using sensible, fair being printed just because they disagree with the contents. and proportionate measures, will set us on a course to Just as important as the right to protest is the right to a do just that. free press, the right to life, and the right to employment. The Bill just gives equal weight to all those competing 9.49 pm rights. The Bill puts the right of the law-abiding majority (South Dorset) (Con) [V]: Please may I first. It protects victims, it backs our police and emergency too send my deepest sympathies to Sarah Everard’s family service workers and, with that in mind, it should command and friends? Also, I refer to my entry in the Register of cross-party support tomorrow evening. Members’ Financial Interests. 129 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts15 MARCH 2021 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 130

There is much to commend in this Bill, which dots prevents their early release. It keeps those most horrific several i’s and crosses several t’s with regard to our individuals who rape or sexually assault children in jail manifesto. We hear a lot about rights; now it is time for for longer too. responsibilities. We should consider this Bill in the context of the Following the unhappy circumstances surrounding second major piece of legislation that will protect women— the vigil for Sarah Everard, there is concern over the the landmark Domestic Abuse Bill, which introduces extension of police powers, and the new laws regarding new provisions to ban the rough sex defence and extends public order must be scrupulously monitored and sparingly the law against revenge pornography, as well as creating used. I mention this with the vigil in mind, where the the specific new offence of non-fatal strangulation. This police were caught between a rock and a hard place as is flagship policy making. I am proud of a Government they attempted to balance laws passed to control a who since 2010 have put women’s safety at the heart of pandemic and an outpouring of grief that those who their policy making. attended the vigil wanted to share. It highlighted to me The way to test any Bill passed by Government is on what happens when the police lose the consent of the whether it changes things for the better for people. This people, which only reinforces how important it is for Bill will do just that. It delivers important manifesto laws affecting public order to be proportionate, clear commitments, including ensuring that serious violent and reasonable. To that extent, I was reassured when my and sexual offenders spend more of their sentence in right hon. Friend the Home Secretary indicated in her prison, increasing to life the maximum sentence for speech that these new powers are aimed at preventing causing death by dangerous driving, increasing sentences protesters from stopping people going to work or closing for desecrating a war memorial, doubling the sentence a city like London for days on end. This new style of for assaulting an emergency worker,and enabling prisoners protest appears to be the norm today, and no responsible who become dangerous to spend all their sentence in Government can sit idly by. prison. It also makes sure that more repeat knife offenders Let me move on to other aspects of the Bill. I am and burglars serve the specified minimum jail term. 100% in support of doubling the maximum penalty for Every stabbing creates a trail of misery, and often assaults on emergency workers from 12 months to two devastated families when it ends a life, as in the case of years in prison. I sincerely hope that this deterrent also my constituent Ryan Passey. applies to inmates who assault prison officers. For too I welcome the strengthening of police powers to long, a lack of any real deterrent has seen this forgotten tackle unauthorised encampments.That will be particularly army subjected to acts of violence that are totally welcome for my residents in Withymoor Village in unacceptable—and it is not just physical violence. Female Amblecote. I fully recognise that everyone has the right prison officers, in particular, are vulnerable to being to a nomadic life, but this must be balanced against the “potted”—a degrading and revolting assault where human rights of local communities. For me, the balance has excrement is emptied on their heads. never been quite right, and we needed greater police As a former soldier,I find the damage to and desecration powers. The Bill delivers just that, for which I thank the of war memorials a particularly heinous and cowardly Government enormously.It will change things for the better crime. Whatever one’s view on a particular subject, it for my constituents. Police will now have the powers to does not give the right to tear down statues. I agree that seize vehicles and arrest or fine trespassers who intend monetary value should not be a factor in sentencing to reside on private and public land without permission. because these memorials are, quite literally, priceless. Yet Opposition Members attack plans for criminal penalties for those who refuse to leave unauthorised encampments I welcome the toughening of the law on trespass. as discriminatory and unworkable. Once again, they Rural crime is a significant problem, and this promise in show themselves to be on the side of those who break our manifesto will help to combat a small and unruly the law rather than the law-abiding. element who think they can operate outside the law. With this new Bill, we will have more tools at our Finally,I like the idea of secure schools as an alternative disposal than ever before to protect our residents. I to jail for troubled young people—at least, I assume support it for all that it delivers. It will make my that is the aim. Their success will depend to a large community in Stourbridge safer. After listening to this extent on who runs them and how they are operated. I debate, my concern is that those who vote against the recall the attempt to introduce bootcamps, which fell at vital measures in the Bill will be putting a day’s headline the first fence. However, there is no doubt that a period or strapline ahead of the safety of my constituents, of discipline within a well-organised structure would do particularly that of women. no harm. Tomorrow night I shall be voting for the Bill, which 9.55 pm will be welcomed by the law-abiding silent majority. (Beckenham) (Con): Since 2009, the armed forces’ next of kin have been given the Elizabeth 9.52 pm Cross if a family member has been killed in action as a result of terrorism. The award is obviously named after Suzanne Webb (Stourbridge) (Con): It is a pleasure to Her Majesty the Queen. I believe that such an award should be back here physically to speak. now also be made to the police, fire officers and members A Government’s first duty is always to protect their of the ambulance service. I suppose that it would be people, and this flagship Bill will ensure that our justice appropriate to link them all together as blue-light services. system will always serve the law-abiding majority. It is The national police memorial on the Mall lists almost timely after recent events as it emphasises that this 5,000 police officers who have been killed while on duty Government put women’s safety front and centre. The since records began. Most recently, during Bill lengthens jail time for serious sexual offenders and in Northern Ireland, 319 Royal Ulster Constabulary 131 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts 15 MARCH 2021 132

[Bob Stewart] can include our deaf citizens as well as everybody else. Finally, I believe, in all generosity, that Labour Members officers were killed; and since 2001, 16 Police Service of have made a terrible mistake in opposing the Bill, and Northern Ireland officers have been murdered. Since 2010, neither my constituents nor theirs will ever understand 11 Metropolitan police officers have also been killed the reasons why. here in London. It is difficult to get consolidated lists of Ordered, That the debate be now adjourned— firefighters who have been killed doing their duty, but at (Michael Tomlinson.). least 69 died between 1986 and 2017. Ambulance personnel Debate to be resumed tomorrow. who have died in the line of duty have normally been hit by vehicles when attending casualties, and figures are difficult to get—yet it happens. ROYAL ASSENT Maybe, with the approval of the Queen, we might be able to call this award the “Charles Cross”. After all, Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I have to notify His Royal Highness Prince Charles is patron of the the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, National Police Memorial Day. Frankly, I believe it that Her Majesty has signified her Royal Assent to the would be a thoroughly appropriate name for such an following Acts: award. I suppose the scheme might be expanded to Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and include the air ambulance and the Royal National Lifeboat Adjustments) Act 2021 Institution, which are really part of the blue-light fraternity Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) of emergency services. I suggest that the award should Act 2021 go no further than that. I believe such an award to be Non-Domestic Rating (Lists) Act 2021 utterly proper and decent, and it may indeed give close family members of those who have lost their lives Contingencies Fund Act 2021. protecting the rest of us some solace and perhaps not a little pride when they wear such a decoration. Business without Debate

9.58 pm DELEGATED LEGISLATION Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): I Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing prepared a one-minute speech, but I will try to stretch it Order No. 118(6)), to twominutes.The constituents of North East Bedfordshire will welcome this Bill. They will particularly welcome EXITING THE (IMMIGRATION) the fact that it begins with the police covenant, which That the draft Registration of Marriages Regulations 2021, codifies our responsibility to recognise the obligations which were laid before this House on 22 February, be approved.— and sacrifices of our police officers. They will very (Michael Tomlinson.) much welcome the end of automatic early release, but I Question agreed to. must say to the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Order No. 118(6)), South (Chris Philp), that I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies): he should see EQUALITY this as the start, not the end, of ending automatic That the draft Financial Reporting Council (Miscellaneous release, so that the public understand that sentences Provisions) Order 2021, which was laid before this House on mean what they say. 8 February, be approved.—(Michael Tomlinson.) My constituents will particularly welcome the actions Question agreed to. on illegal encampments, which are a blight for so many Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing in the countryside and urban areas. On the issue of Order No. 118(6)), policing demonstrations, let us listen to what my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker) INSOLVENCY said and take more responsibility for ourselves in setting That the draft Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act the laws, rather than the obligations of the police for 2020 (Coronavirus) (Change of Expiry Date) Regulations 2021, policing them. I welcome the sensitivity in the Bill in which were laid before this House on 11 February, be approved.— terms of the interactions of young people with our (Michael Tomlinson.) justice system. If we can get that right, it will preclude Question agreed to. many faults later on. It is welcome that we have clause 164, which at last Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): We will now recognises that deaf people can have access to British suspend for two minutes. Sign Language interpreters. For hundreds of years, we have recognised that every citizen in this country is 10.1 pm entitled to a jury of their peers, and now those juries Sitting suspended. 133 15 MARCH 2021 UK Renewables: Critical Minerals 134

UK Renewables: Critical Minerals stay at the cutting edge of their sector, with the best equipment and secure, efficient supply chains, thus staying Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House competitive and retaining their reputation for the highest- do now adjourn.—(Michael Tomlinson.) quality products. 10.3 pm The most visible everyday examples of the importance of critical minerals are mobile phones and electric cars. Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con): I refer the Our ultra-modern smartphones, boasting touchscreens, House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial cameras and 5G, use a huge number of critical minerals, Interests. As vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary including potassium, tin, copper, tungsten and advanced group for critical minerals, I am delighted to have aluminium. Electric vehicles are often hailed as the secured this debate on the use of critical minerals in the future of renewable transport, but they are key users of UK’s renewables future. As was the case with my two critical minerals. Each car on average uses 100 kg of hydrogen Adjournment debates, I am pleased to announce copper, rare earth for the magnets and lithium, nickel, that this is the first debate in the UK Parliament dedicated cobalt, manganese and graphite for the batteries. Many to critical minerals. people are surprised to learn that a solar panel relies on Critical minerals have long been overlooked by successive 16 different minerals and metals. Governments and by this House—the mantra of “out of sight, out of mind”is apt. Awareness of where our critical An equally important part of the UK’s renewables minerals come from and what they are used for is low, future is the wind turbine, with the Prime Minister however. The Government are waking up to the fact that boldly envisioning that we shall become the the race for critical minerals security is the new great game. “Saudi Arabia of wind power”. Urgent action must be taken now to safeguard the future prosperity of the United Kingdom and the west I share his enthusiasm for the role that wind can play in in the spheres of the economy, defence and energy. With powering the UK and in reducing our carbon emissions, the upcoming COP26 in Glasgow and the G7 summit in but to meet the Prime Minister’s objective of having , there could not be a better time to do so. every home in the UK powered by wind turbines by 2030, experts indicate that we will need to increase our It is vital that this House is made aware of the output of energy from 10 GW to 40 GW by 2030. That significant threat to our economy and our post-covid will require building a new wind turbine every single and post-Brexit recovery if we run out of the critical day until 2030. To achieve that, we need more than minerals needed to supply our low-carbon industries of 26,000 tonnes of rare earths and more than 4 tonnes of the future. The UK’s 10-point economic plan makes an copper. The UK Government must acknowledge that assumption that the international supply of these minerals the construction of renewable energy technology is is sufficient to service every country’s needs in our inextricably linked to the supply of critical minerals. We global race to avoid climate change. I would like to must take action accordingly to protect our energy inform the House that that is clearly not the case. sector and the generation of power. What are critical minerals and what are they used for? Importantly, seven points in the Government’s 10-point In simple terms, these are the minerals that are vital for plan for the green recovery are dependent on a secure low-carbon industrial capabilities, but which face supply green supply of critical minerals. Herein lies the challenge chain vulnerability. The Critical Minerals Association for the United Kingdom. We are facing a two-pronged has split the definition of critical minerals into three threat. The first threat is that as demand rockets for the subsections: critical minerals, which are important for use of critical minerals in the technology of the future, industrial strategy and consist of minerals such as lithium, there is a global shortage, which would affect our economy cobalt and rare earths; technology metals, which are and livelihoods, our energy supply, our environmental bulk metals such as copper that are not susceptible to agenda, our security and defence, and basically the way supply chain vulnerability, but are important nevertheless we live our lives. for the UK’s industrial objectives; and strategic minerals, which have potential defence importance. Those three The second threat is that our current suppliers of groups of critical minerals are ubiquitous in their use, critical minerals are not dependable or sustainable. I and that is part of the problem. shall name two countries in our critical minerals supply In fact, critical minerals are becoming more and chain in order to demonstrate that fact. The first is more important by the day. Our renewables and involved in the mining of critical minerals, and the telecommunications technology of the future requires second in the midstream processing. The Democratic an ever-increasing amount of critical minerals. Without Republic of the Congo is not a dependable source of them, our society just cannot function. With global minerals for the UK to rely on. It is politically unstable, demand at this scale, shortages present a real threat to and Chinese influence is concerningly strong in mining our economy and to our society. In the past five years, areas. It is not a sustainable source of minerals either, we have seen the mass commercialisation of satellite with the DRC home to low environmental standards and drone technology, led by British companies such as and frequent human rights violations against local people Blue Bear Systems, all of which rely on critical minerals. and children. In fact, there is currently a class action Likewise, advanced robotics for British manufacturing, lawsuit against the big technology companies, including which is crucial to my seat of Rother Valley in South Apple, Google, Dell, Microsoft, and Tesla, which stand Yorkshire and places across our country, require more accused of operating supply chains that use cobalt than 40 different critical minerals. mined by children. It is incredibly important that British industry thrives The second country in our critical minerals supply in the post-Brexit and post-covid era. For that to happen, chain is the People’s Republic of China, and it is in the factories and plants in the Rother Valley region must midstream, where the communist PRC dominates, that we 135 UK Renewables: Critical Minerals15 MARCH 2021 UK Renewables: Critical Minerals 136

[Alexander Stafford] For the economy, the consequences of such supply chain instability for the United Kingdom are stark. Let face our greatest threat. Clearly, we are totally dependent me take the automotive sector as an example of the on China’s good will, from processing and refining to consequences. Some 70% of the value of an electric car beneficiation. For instance, China mines only 1% of the is realised in its battery and motor. If those components world’s cobalt, but refines 65% of it. It mines 12% cannot be manufactured in the UK because we do not of the world’s manganese but refines 97% of it, as well have the minerals coming into the country,the consequences 89% of the world’s graphite. China’s absolute control of for the automotive sector alone are bleak: it could cost the critical mineral midstream is so strong that graphite up to 500,000 jobs by 2030. There is no doubt in my from the UK is sent to China for beneficiation, and then mind that the Government must take immediate and bought back from China at the component section of assertive action to avert this potential disaster, which the supply chain. That is absurd. Of the 172 gigafactories may strike just as we set out our post-covid-19 recovery. being built in the world at this moment, 130 are in China. The Government must adopt a two-fold approach, It is estimated that by 2030 the world’s demand for the first arm of which is to focus on relocating as much lithium will mean that global production is 1.4 million of the critical minerals supply chain as we can to the tonnes a year in deficit. Graphite will be 8 million UK, thereby boosting the UK economy and creating tonnes in deficit, cobalt 800,000 tonnes in deficit, and jobs and opportunities. The second arm is to take a nickel 400,000 tonnes in deficit. If China controls the leading role in creating a Five Eyes critical minerals midstream of those minerals, and is building over three alliance to co-ordinate an overarching strategy to secure times more gigafactories than the rest of the world put a stable network of interdependence. together, it is only logical that China will serve its industrial requirements before the rest of the world, On building a critical minerals industry in the UK, and before the United Kingdom. we already have some world-leading companies and research institutions in the sector, doing vital work. Of (Broadland) (Con): We talk about course, Britain has long been a pioneer in industrial industrial strategy, but would my hon. Friend enlighten innovation. If we look through history, we see that the House about his views on whether this is also a we have been at the forefront of industrial revolutions national security threat? and part of revolutions in power supply, from early agrarian methods to steam to oil. What differentiates Alexander Stafford: I thank my hon. Friend for that today’s power revolution is that we are not only looking point, and of course it is a national security issue. This for more powerful or cheaper sources of energy but is one of the biggest national security issues facing us developing renewable energy sources that meet our social over the next 10 years or so, and we need to have control objective of being less damaging to the environment. It of it. is inescapable that critical minerals are the building blocks of this new economy, and the renewable energy Let me give more examples of why this is such an sector will need them. The reality is that our future important matter.More than 75% of the world’slithium-ion economy and green energy desires rely on a steady, component manufacturers are located in China, resulting secure and vertically integrated supply of critical minerals in more than 72% of lithium-ion batteries, and 45% of for the UK. all global electric vehicles, already being produced in China. In December 2020—only a few months ago—the The UK has a particularly long history of mining Chinese legislature passed a law on export control, stretching over 2,000 years and more. Everyone in Britain allowing the Government to ban exports of strategic is only too aware of the legend that Jesus himself visited materials and advanced technology to specific foreign our green and pleasant land more than two millennia companies. A Chinese Government spokesman said: ago precisely because of our mining heritage—his relative “China may take countermeasures against any country or Joseph of Arimathea was a tin trader—as memorialised region that abuses export-control measures and poses a threat to in the song “Jerusalem”. Our bulk mining capacity has China’s national security and interests”. been depleted because of decreased ore grades, but we This year alone, China has openly discussed the potential are now seeing a growth in domestic critical mineral of cutting off the supply of rare earths or rare-earth potential. Although this will never meet our entire components to the United States. Those are necessary critical mineral needs, the shortening of supply chains for the US defence sector and, to put that into context, and production of feedstock domestically is the first more than 400 kg of rare earths are needed for a single step towards reducing vulnerability and tapping into F-35 fighter. the £7 billion-per-year industry. Let me return to the example I often cite, which is the We know of UK critical minerals deposits in the coronavirus pandemic. Last year, the UK imported south-west of England, Northern Ireland and Scotland. most of its personal protective equipment from China, Cornish lithium is key to UK critical mineral potential, with only 1% of it made in the UK. When we needed it securing battery-grade lithium from geothermal brine. most, however, at the height of the pandemic, China Elsewhere in the region, Tungsten West is reopening a decided to not fulfil its obligations, by sending us defective globallysignificanttungstendepositinDevonandCornwall, PPE, or by not even sending it to us at all. We now and Cornish Metals has the potential to supply industrial manufacture 70% of PPE domestically. It is a similar levels of tin for the British economy. Not only are such situation with critical minerals. When we take that projects significant to our industrial objectives, but they together with China’s actions over Hong Kong, Taiwan, provide an alternative year-round economy to Cornwall and its treatment of the Uyghurs, it is clear that we and the south-west, where the community has rich cannot, and should not, depend on the PRC for the mining heritage. In Northern Ireland, Dalradian Gold future of our economy, energy, and defence sectors. has the potential to deliver significant copper for the 137 UK Renewables: Critical Minerals15 MARCH 2021 UK Renewables: Critical Minerals 138

UK economy.Such companies require support to unlock mining counterparts to host the midstream and downstream the potential in our regions and secure critical minerals parts of the supply chain, creating a supply chain balance sourced from home. across the Five Eyes alliance. Quotas, too, are particularly Domestic mining is just one small part of the greater important in ensuring that our respective needs are met picture. It is important to note that no one expects us to and that we do not face any shortages. One territory repatriate all upstream mining to Britain—quite simply, that Five Eyes must payparticular attention to is Greenland. we do not have the geology to support that. It is key that As a member of the all-party parliamentary group for we relocate to the UK other steps in the supply chain, Greenland, I welcome the timely publication of the particularly in the midstream. Crucially, by shortening Greenland critical minerals report, which outlines the our supply chain we can reduce our embedded carbon crucial role the UK has to play in leading the Five Eyes footprint, which is vital to the delivery of our green critical minerals alliance, and I urge the Government to economy and to meeting our net zero target. The enter into an enhanced partnership with Greenland for domestication of the critical mineral stream and investment critical minerals and to prioritise a bilateral UK-Greenland in the circular economy is crucial. We are lucky to have trade agreement. in the sector leading British companies such as the I now turn to the benefits of adopting my new Materials Processing Institute, Less Common Metals, strategy on critical minerals for the whole United Kingdom. TechMet and Technical Critical Minerals. We are at a crossroads, looking to a future dominated Let me turn to the second arm of the two-fold by the green renewables transition and the levelling up approach that I urge the Government to adopt. It is agenda. We have left the European Union and we are evident that the act of mining is determined by the looking to turbocharge the economy post covid, as well geology in a nation. If we are to meet the UK’s industrial as hosting the G7 and COP26 this year. The building of needs, we will need to secure sufficient critical minerals a critical minerals supply chain will spread huge opportunity from other countries. It so happens that our Five Eyes to every corner of our country. partners are blessed with critical minerals in abundance, I have already spoken about the critical mineral potential as are our Commonwealth friends. of left-behind areas. I know from my own work on locating I am a firm believer that the UK is a force of good in a hydrogen hub in my constituency of Rother Valley the world. In stable partner nations such as Malawi, that the domino effect of such supply chains in a region Tanzania, and Zambia the multiplier effect of a is transformative. For example, Sheffield’s hydrogen giga- responsibly-run mine is somewhere between 10 and 25. factory could be used as part of the electric vehicles and In respect of Five Eyes, collaboration is vital for the critical minerals supply chain, creating efficiencies and mutual benefit of us all. We largely share the same synergies between our burgeoning hydrogen economy economic and security objectives and we face the same and our critical minerals economy. That will not only global threats. Closer collaboration with our partner safeguard existing jobs but create thousands more nations, especially Australia and Canada, will be vital jobs, providing well-paid employment in the region for to our upstream overseas critical mineral supply chain. generations to come and injecting much needed investment As vice-chair of the all-party parliamentary group for into our high streets in industrial towns such as Dinnington, critical minerals, it was an honour to host the Australian Maltby, Thurcroft and Swallownest. high commissioner this morning to hear about Australia’s As more companies and educational institutions are recently launched critical mineral strategy and how attracted by that industrial cluster of critical minerals, Australia seeks greater co-operation with the UK in this steelmaking and hydrogen plants, prosperity is sure to vital sector. follow. Repatriating the critical minerals supply chain is The high commissioner reiterated that neither country a vital part of our levelling up agenda, upskilling the will get to net zero by 2050 through the development local population and supporting our green programme. and deployment of low-emission technologies without The more steps in the chain located in the UK, the more a secure supply chain of critical minerals. His Excellency we control environmental standards, labour standards confirmed that the UK is at the front of the queue for and ESG matters. critical minerals co-operation due to our shared A circular economy underpinned by the expansion of environmental and ethical standards and commitment industries such as recycling, repair and remanufacturing to a market that is diverse, robust, secure, and underpinned could also create over half a million jobs across the UK. by good governance and environmental, social and Most of these would be in remanufacturing and most corporate governance practice, driven by innovation, would not be in London or the south-east. It would be free market forces and co-operation. particularly important to give a second life to machinery Together, we can diversify the supply chain and that will enable a low-carbon future. complement each other to protect our economies and We are, of course, in a race for these manifold benefits. societies. However, we must secure a UK-Australia free Our industrial objectives are the same as those of Europe trade agreement. I am pleased that we are already and their companies are looking for the same critical working to establish a working group on critical minerals minerals we are. The threat is that we will not secure the with Australia. I urge my colleagues to study closely supply chain as the EU and other nations advance their Australia’s critical minerals strategy as it is very much strategies before we can. Companies looking to take what we should doing in the UK, and the creation of a advantage of the new industrial revolution are thinking critical minerals facilitation office should be explored regionally to maximise profits against the relatively too. high capital expenditure needed to start these businesses. The UK has an opportunity to take the lead on As such, we find ourselves in a race against friends to developing an overarching Five Eyes strategy that will secure a supply chain of critical minerals and secure the safeguard our prosperity and security for decades to domestication of component manufacturers to deliver come. It is quite possible that we can work with our the industrial objectives. 139 UK Renewables: Critical Minerals15 MARCH 2021 UK Renewables: Critical Minerals 140

[Alexander Stafford] Clearly, such materials underpin the renewable technologies we need to achieve our net zero goals. That The Minister will not be surprised that I have some is why we are looking at how we can leverage the UK’s policy asks of the Government. The first is to support extensive R&D ecosystem to lead efforts to deliver the the development of potential critical minerals by supporting green industrial revolution and maximise sustainable upstream mining capability throughout the UK. The and efficient use of critical materials. Our investment in second is the development of a critical mineral midstream. two new interdisciplinary circular economy centres—UK The global supply chain bottleneck is at the midstream Research and Innovation’s interdisciplinary circular section. When the rest of the world focused on bulk mining, economy centres for technology metals and for circular China looked to the future of the industry and cornered metals—is helping to explore how reusing waste materials the market for the minerals we need now.It is a monopolised can deliver environmental benefits and boost the UK sector and therefore free market forces do not work. As economy. a Government, we must find innovative ways to fund the We have also committed £500 million of funding for right projects to ensure we overcome this global bottleneck. the automotive transformation fund to build an Our regional competitor for critical minerals, the EU, internationally competitive electric vehicle supply chain, has already started a finance programme looking to and £318 million for the Faraday battery challenge to raise £16 billion off the back of an institutional £6 billion support the pioneering work needed to ensure that we investment. Unless we find a way to compete, companies can deliver our net zero commitments. My right hon. will be attracted to where the investment exists. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food The third ask is that we work with our international and Rural Affairs will be consulting later this year on partners to produce a Five Eyes critical minerals strategy. new measures to help to build a circular economy at I strongly believe that working with our cousins in home, while driving international collaboration abroad Australia and Canada is the key to building that. to encourage harmonisation in the circular economy The fourth request is that the Government support regulations. These efforts will put us at the forefront of university programmes, such as the School future green growth. of Mines, to make sure that they look at critical minerals. The coronavirus pandemic has demonstrated the The final ask is that the Government release a critical importance of resilient supply chains, and that is why minerals strategy at the earliest opportunity, to give the Government are monitoring and assessing the supply investors and industry certainty and to allow Members of critical materials. The Department for International of this House to scrutinise the economic, environmental Trade global supply chain directorate now forms a key and societal benefits. part of this work. It will help to ensure access to a I believe firmly in our 10-point plan for a green recovery resilient critical material supply that adheres to free, fair and our net zero target, and I am a staunch supporter of and open international trade. This will help to advance the levelling up agenda. The UK has all the necessary the plan for growth and our levelling up objectives as we skills and talent to be a world leader in the sector, seek to attract investment and boost important aspects working with our Five Eyes and Commonwealth friends. of our future economy across all UK nations and regions. We just need the Government’s support, direction, and As my hon. Friend mentioned, we are absolutely investment to unleash this potential, creating opportunity committed to exploring and developing lithium mining across Britain, boosting our green economy,and protecting in the UK. We have backed Cornish Lithium and our energy and defence interests. The critical minerals Geothermal Engineering, which are collaborating to great game has begun. With the Government behind us, build a zero-carbon lithium extraction pipe plant at an I know that the UK will be the winner. existing site in Cornwall. Such commitments provide a 10.26 pm powerful stimulus to mobilise private investment, which plays such an important role in the UK economy. The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth (Anne-Marie Trevelyan): I congratulate my hon. Friend Our foreign direct investment strategy is similarly focused the Member for Rother Valley (Alexander Stafford) on on securing investment in the extraction and, crucially, securing this truly important debate. I thank him and processing of these commodities. We are working with my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay overseas mining companies and host Governments to () for their written questions on the subject, support and enable UK investment in the extraction, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland processing and refining of the raw materials required (Jerome Mayhew) for his contributions. to deliver our ambitions. We are working to improve The Government are proud of their commitment to international mining conditions. We have implemented net zero, and my hon. Friend the Member for Rother a number of programmes to tackle modern slavery Valley is right to link it to the question of sourcing raw in the Democratic Republic of Congo, including a materials. Indeed, critical raw materials have supported programme in the DRC with the Carter Centre to our success so far. The UK’s world-leading offshore improve transparency and governance in the mining wind industry, which uses light rare earth metals, niobium sector, working with civil society. and borates, as well as the more common cobalt, in I thank my hon. Friend for allowing me to respond to turbine manufacture, provides a critical source of our these points. I know we shall continue to discuss this renewable energy for our growing economy. The latest critical supply chain in the months and years ahead, as figures indicate that our onshore wind assets now generate we drive our net zero ambitions into action and delivery enough power for more than 10 million UK homes. In and we consider how to play this great game. solar, which relies on silicon, indium, germanium and Question put and agreed to. gallium for its panels and turbines, we also see a UK success story. More than 99% of UK solar capacity has 10.29 pm been deployed since May 2010. House adjourned. 1WH 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 2WH

with yellow fever, the petitioner wants it to be known Westminster Hall that “comparing this certification alongside any proposed covid status certification is not a viable argument, as we Monday 15 March 2021 are dealing with very different viruses. Yellow fever certification is only required for up to 30 African and 13 Latin countries.” [SIR DAVID AMESS in the Chair] The petition is not difficult to understand and stems from genuine concerns among many of the petitioners. Vaccine Passports I state clearly for the record my support for the vaccination Virtual participation in proceedings commenced programme, and I encourage everyone eligible for their (Order, 25 February). vaccination to take it as soon as they are offered it by our national health service, which is working so hard to [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] deliver the programme on time. 4.30 pm It is easy to understand why a vaccine passport may appear to be a perfect option for the Government, who Sir David Amess (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members are trying to ease the lockdown as quickly and safely as that there have been some changes to normal practice—that possible. The idea that we could allow events to start is an obvious fact—in order to support the new hybrid taking place at which people who have some immunity arrangements. The timings of debates have been amended to the virus could return to some level of normality is to allow technical arrangements to be made for the next attractive. Like everyone else in the country, I look debate, which is why there will be a 15-minute interval, forward to the day when such things can take place and there will be suspensions between debates. again safely, and something that could possibly speed us I remind Members participating physically and virtually along to that point is a compelling suggestion. that they must arrive for the start of debates in Westminster After almost a year of lockdowns and Hall. Members are expected to remain for the entire restrictions, anything that can help to get people back debate. I also remind Members participating virtually out into the community, back into their workplaces, that they are visible at all times, both to each other and back into their businesses and back with their families is to us in the Boothroyd Room, so no drinking tea or something that we cannot discount. However, we must eating food. If Members attending virtually have any also consider the possible drawbacks that come with technical problems, they should email the Westminster such a proposal, and we must consider the concerns Hall Clerks’ email address. with fairness. There are concerns about vaccine passports I ask Members attending physically to kindly clean that go beyond the pseudoscience of anti-vax protesters their spaces before they use them and before they leave and trolls. I therefore urge hon. Members to be the room, if they would not mind. Members attending mindful of some of these arguments in their contributions. physically who are in the latter stages of the call list To date, the Government have not brought forward should use the seats in the Public Gallery and move on any concrete plans on vaccine passports or how they to the horseshoe when seats become available. Members could work. However, as some countries and travel may speak only from the horseshoe, which is where the companies are beginning to require proof of vaccination microphones are. as a precondition of entering their territory without the To be helpful to colleagues, I have done the maths and need to quarantine or of booking travel, some form of am imposing a time limit of three and a half minutes on proof may be necessary at least to relaunch our tourism Back-Bench contributions. Obviously, Front Benchers sector. If British holidaymakers and travellers are required will get the usual 10 minutes each. to have proof for international travel, it will be difficult not to have some kind of Government-issued certification 4.31 pm to back that up. Even if the UK opts out and opts not to use vaccine passports in the same way as other states, Mike Hill (Hartlepool) (Lab) [V]: I beg to move, we may be required to provide some proof for those That this House has considered e-petition 569957, relating to wishing to go abroad if other states require proof prior vaccine passports. to entry. It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, If that were to be the case, how it would work Sir David. I thank the petitioner, Mr David Nolan, and domestically is unknown. I invite the Minister present all the other signatories of the petition, which has to shed some light on that in their summary of the reached 295,842 signatures. The wording of the petition debate, as the domestic and international situations are is as follows: very different and, even if domestic requirements remain “We want the Government to commit to not rolling out any low, international requirements may not give us a great e-vaccination status/ to the British public. deal of choice. The concept of using vaccine passports Such passports could be used to restrict the rights of people who in domestic settings is of concern to some people as we have refused a Covid-19 vaccine, which would be unacceptable.” go forward. The petitioner wants me to make it clear that they do As Members will be aware, the Joint Committee on not represent themselves as anti-vaccination. In their Vaccination and Immunisation has published priority own words, “We believe anti-vaxx people are in an lists, which will work their way through the population absolute minority in Britain.” from those most vulnerable to covid down to the least The petition is not exclusively about those worried about vulnerable. Although it is not always the case, often that discrimination if they refuse vaccination; it is more involves going from the oldest groups in society to the about the implementation of vaccine passports and youngest—again, I must stress that that is not always their technology for everyone in society. In comparison the case. Therefore, introducing vaccine passports at 3WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 4WH

[Mike Hill] Covid Vaccine Deployment, my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi), had ruled out present would exclude those who have not yet had the vaccine passports. I am very grateful, therefore, to have opportunity to receive their vaccine. There is a genuine this opportunity to hear from the Minister at this stage fear that younger people who do not have anycharacteristics in the review through this petition, and I am grateful to that place them on the priority list could be prevented the petitioners. from taking part in events or from taking certain actions, I also thank Big Brother Watch, which has provided a for no reason other than age and lack of pre-existing very helpful brief, with nine reasons why covid passes health conditions. Similarly, many people are concerned must be stopped. I will briefly race through as many as about how a vaccine passport would be properly managed, I can squeeze in. First, they will be unnecessary due as anything that required a smartphone, as the current to the availability of effective vaccines. Indeed, the covid another place does, could bar many elderly people Government’s amazing success in rolling out vaccines or people living in poverty from accessing such a system. means that those most vulnerable to covid-19, and soon I must also stress at this point that although I encourage anyone who wants and is medically eligible for a vaccine, everyone to get their vaccination when they are offered will have a high level of protection from the virus. That it, people do have the right to choose not to be vaccinated means that hospitalisations and deaths associated with if they so wish. Nobody can currently be compelled to covid will fall drastically, and overbearing controls on take the vaccination under the law, despite it being our society will not be justified. best hope in this national fight. The number of people I know that the Government are now looking at currently indicating that they will not take the vaccine covid status certificates, which bring into play the issue when offered it is currently very low, and it is my sincere of mass testing. Of course, the ground has been sown hope that it remains that way, for the chances of our with salt on the issue of false positives, I am sorry to recovery. Nevertheless, the question that we must ask say, often by some apparently eminent people who ourselves is whether such a policy would be fair to lamentably neglected the practical evidence from hospitals people who have the right to make that choice, however of real people with real disease, so I hesitate to bring up we who support the vaccination programme might the issue. But it has to be said that, as we reach an era of personally feel about their decision. low prevalence of the disease, if we carry out mass If, as much media speculation indicates, proposals testing on asymptomatic people, the issue of false positives about domestic usage of vaccine passports are under will undoubtedly be relevant. We need to hear from the consideration, I invite the Minister to clarify any of Minister what she is going to do to ensure that people those proposals in their summary at the end of the who test falsely positive with lateral flow tests, and debate, in the interests of openness and of the petitioners. indeed PCR—polymerase chain reaction—tests, do not I invite Members to consider carefully some of the end up deprived of their liberty unnecessarily. We very arguments that I have set out in their consideration of much need to hear from the Government about that. the petitioners’ request. Even those in favour of such a system cannot dismiss counterarguments without proper Of course, vaccine passports would be discriminatory. and fair consideration, especially when it comes to They would have the effect of socially and economically ensuring that everybody in the elderly and vulnerable excluding people who have not had either a vaccine or a groups will have access to a vaccine passport, and that recent test result. It is of course unlawful under equality those who have not been vaccinated because they are law to discriminate against people with protected further down the list are not excluded because they have characteristics, including age, disability,pregnancy,religion not yet had their turn. or belief—I underscore belief. I shall have my vaccine when I am offered it, but there will be various people for Once again, I thank Mr Nolan and all the petitioners various reasons who will choose not to do so. for raising this important issue. Effectively making vaccines mandatory by implication Sir David Amess (in the Chair): Before I call the next through covid status certification could be counter- speaker,I remind Members that, in line with Mr Speaker’s productive. The evidence from across Europe shows wishes—I am not being old-fashioned or stuffy—gentlemen, that if people feel compelled to take vaccines, it puts when addressing the House physically or virtually, must them off. It would implement, of course, a checkpoint be properly attired with a jacket and tie. society. It would mean passes for the pub—if you want your pint, Sir David, you will have to show your papers. 4.40 pm I did not think that is the society that we wished to live in. A surveillance state would be instituted. There would Mr (Wycombe) (Con): I refer Members be mission creep. Passes would be irreversible and divisive, to the declarations that I have made in relation to the and of course they would infringe on the autonomy of . the individual. I lament that I do not have time to go “I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, through each of those points in detail, but I will certainly or numbered. My life is my own”— provide the brief to the Minister afterwards. I quote, of course, from the popular 1967 drama “The I want to finish with another quote from “The Prisoner”. It seems to me that nothing has changed in Prisoner”—something that I ask people advocating for some people’s desire to treat us as commodities to be these certification regimes to bear in mind. No. 2 says: managed by the state, yet what has changed is the availability of technology to make it so. “We can treat folly with kindness…knowing that soon his wild spirit will quieten, and the foolishness will fall away to reveal a I am very grateful to my constituents who have model citizen.” written to me about this matter. We have had a prior debate on this subject, or at least a debate in which I No. 6 replies: raised this subject, and I thought that the Minister for “That day you’ll never see.” 5WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 6WH

4.44 pm The starting point is that it is fundamentally up to individual countries to make decisions for themselves, Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]: The covid-19 so it ought not to be, in that sense, for the United pandemic has asked a great deal of our constituents, Kingdom to take a lead with regard to what Brazil, and for the last year the liberties that we all enjoy and Italy or any other country chooses to do. We have to should expect have been restricted. I know that most respect those countries and their decisions; it is not for people I represent want those freedoms returned as us to determine what they do. I hope that all countries, soon as possible, and in as safe a way as possible. including the United Kingdom, if we choose at some The question posed by proposed vaccine passports is point to take this approach of vaccine passports for whether they are part of enabling all our society to other countries’ foreign nationals coming here, will return to normality, and that is complex. Many people themselves consider what they should do. look at this through the prism of whether it will work My hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe captured for them, or think that they have had the vaccine and the point about the effectiveness of the vaccination therefore will be okay, but as the last year has shown us, programme. It is remarkable. I had no anticipation that when we pull together as a society and act in the spirit it would be as effective as it seems to be at the moment. of selflessness, we can achieve so much more for everyone. We have to recognise that, and the protection that will We need to consider whether such a scheme would give to so many people right around the world. Any enable some while unfairly restricting others who have, question over certification for vaccinations or anything for their own reasons, not taken the vaccine. We cannot else therefore has to be proportionate to the threat of penalise people who have exercised their right not to the disease itself, which at the moment is diminishing, take the vaccine. That may be an expectant mother, for so actually the need is diminishing. At the same time, example, who just cannot get peace about taking the there has been an escalation in concerns and expectation vaccine, even with the reassurances given by scientists that the passports will be delivered for many countries. I and health advisers. To restrict that person from public am quite sympathetic to the sense of having vaccinations. places or services would be wrong. We should also About 20 or so years ago, when I was in the Territorial factor into the debate that we have so little evidence of Army, I went on an expedition to Ecuador—Cordilleran the vaccine’s effectiveness in reducing transmission. It is Enterprise—to climb Volcán Sangay. I had a yellow simply too soon to consider taking such a significant fever vaccination and got a certificate. There are minimal step without evidence of whether it would actually be of concerns about certification if someone has a piece of real benefit. paper to demonstrate their vaccination status, and we do In Northern Ireland we have a specific set of not need fancy electronic readers to read a certificate—we circumstances, including a land border with the Irish just need to be able to speak the language used on the Republic. While our vaccine programme is well advanced, certificate. I am pretty comfortable with vaccination the roll-out of the vaccine in the Irish Republic is certificates. If there were any questions about forgeries stumbling and slow, not helped by their decision to or anything else, companies such as De La Rue, which is suspend the use of the Oxford vaccine. How would based in my constituency, could make remarkable vaccine passports work on a cross-border basis for authentication devices to put on certificates and ensure those who work in the public sector or who have family that there were no concerns about authenticity. who they care for in the Irish Republic, and vice-versa? If we moved from paper certificates to electronic, It simply cannot work. however, significant questions of civil liberty would I know that some industries, such as aviation, and arise. Who in the world would run that database? What some other countries may choose to administer some data would go into it and who would determine that? form of vaccine passport for those seeking to use their Would it be an international body such as the United services, but in the public sphere the Government must Nations, the EU or some other organisation? If we remain cognisant of the issues around exacerbating could not get an international organisation to take the inequality, evidence regarding transmission and so on. lead, would a big corporate organisation do so? Would Let us focus instead on encouraging vaccine uptake big tech in California have control over the database? In first, and supporting the world-leading scientific research the light of what happened when the Australian national happening here in the UK to tackle the issues presented Government confronted a big tech company, giving by covid-19. such a company so much power would be a colossal problem. We need to be proportionate and cautious. We In closing, I must make it clear that I would be utterly need to look to paper first and foremost, and there opposed to, and believe that the Government need to would need to be huge justification if we were to take avoid, a domestic internal vaccine passport requirement the electronic route, which I would not welcome. for travel throughout the United Kingdom. We must hold dear to the liberties that we once knew and want to Sir David Amess (in the Chair): Our next speaker return to. could not be here at the start of proceedings because he was in the main Chamber, so he might not have heard 4.47 pm that there is a three-and-a-half minute limit on speeches. I call Mr Ian Paisley. (Bolton West) (Con): It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) 4.51 pm and the hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart). I thought that the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mike Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): It is an honour to Hill) set out so many of the issues very well. It is a serve under your chairmanship, Sir David, and thank pleasure to speak in this e-petition debate on electronic you for that warning about time. I hope not to detain vaccine passports, which is incredibly timely. the House that long, but I will make a few brief comments. 7WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 8WH

[Ian Paisley] Nigeria for the first time, I was perfectly aware that if I did not have the inoculations I would not be going, or I welcome the debate because it is an opportunity for I would be running the risk of being inoculated when I the Government vigorously to reinforce the view that got there, perhaps with a needle of slightly dubious they are not going to introduce vaccine passports. I quality. There is a lot of relevance in that comparison, hope that they use this platform to state that they will and the issue of people who have not had the vaccine not do so, because such passports would be a complete for medical reasons is easy to take into account by and total overreaction, and they are completely and ensuring that certificates are given to them. totally unnecessary. Domestically, the issue raises a number of ethical The vaccine roll-out has been positive—a success for questions, and it is right for the Government to review the UK. We had a similar response with respect to the it, although they are not the only organisation to be flu vaccine, but no one would say that people must have reviewing the ethical issues around vaccine passports. I a passport to prove that they have had that particular lead the British delegation to the Council of Europe, vaccine, even though flu takes many lives in the United which is also undertaking reviews of things such as Kingdom each winter. It would be a complete and total vaccine passports. The Council of Europe, too, has overreaction for Members to stand up and demand come up with a huge number of ethical issues that it has such a passport for people who had received the flu to take into account. That is inevitable with a disease vaccine. We do not need such passports, which would that is so prevalent and that has such enormous effect. become supplementary identity cards. Whether such an approach discriminates against I agree with the comments made by my hon. Friend individuals is something that the courts will have to the Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) about decide, and it is inevitable that if we go down the route the Republic of Ireland’s kneejerk reaction today to of introducing a domestic vaccine passport, the issue stop rolling out the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. That will end up in the courts. Given the way society has is more about the failure of the Republic of Ireland to gone, it is inevitable that this will go that way. That is a have its own successful vaccine roll-out programme great shame, but I do not see any alternative to it. than it is about anything else. I understand that about My last suggestion is to allow the Government to 17 million people across Europe have received that conduct their review and to allow the Council of Europe vaccine, and from those 17 million vaccines, there have to conduct its review, and then to allow those to feed been only about 31 adverse effects. That is a remarkable into the conclusions that the Government will produce. state of affairs, and what we have seen in the Republic of Ireland is more to do with politics than it is to do 4.58 pm with science. John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): I thank my hon. Friend Like the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker), I the Member for Hartlepool (Mike Hill) for the even and believe that vaccine passports would lead to a two-tier balanced way in which he introduced the debate. We society and would increase opportunities to discriminate. should start with principles. The first is obviously the That would be abundantly wrong. I agree that we ethical principle that no one should be subject to any cannot legislate for what other countries do. If we want medical procedure without informed consent being given. to go to certain countries, we might have to have a That is not just the current law; it dates back thousands vaccine passport, or proof that we have received a of years in medical ethics, and we should stand by it. vaccine, but that is a matter for those countries. All we can do is implore them to be proportionate and responsible Secondly, we in this House should speak up loudly in what they do. We should not pursue vaccine passports and clearly for progress and science.Vaccines and medicines domestically, however. If airlines or other countries have transformed societies and the lives of millions decide to do this, that is of course a matter for them, but around the world. Look at the diseases that have been we should implore those countries and organisations to controlled, or in some cases nearly eliminated: diphtheria, demonstrate proportionality in what they do. whooping cough, polio—owing to our age, Sir David, Our civil liberties are something we should cherish, we knew people who had polio, but it is incredibly rare and we should not throw them away so quickly for now—measles, rubella, human papillomavirus and others to manage for us because they know better. The hepatitis. Of course, there has also been the elimination people know what is best and we should guard our civil of smallpox. That is a triumph of science, and we liberties with care. should proclaim it loudly against the sceptics. We should also applaud it. talked about the white heat of the technological revolution, and that is where 4.55 pm we should be. (Henley) (Con) [V]: It is a great pleasure That brings us to practicalities. I agree with the hon. to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. I think Member for Bolton West (Chris Green) that our industry the issue needs to be split into two, as the hon. Member would be perfectly capable of producing secure validated for Hartlepool (Mike Hill) said: we need to look at it certificates. I would hope, therefore, that the Government from the point of view of foreign trips and activities, are engaging with industry on how it would produce and from that of domestic activities. such certificates were they to be introduced. Indeed, the Let me turn first to the foreign aspect of vaccine Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency produces millions passports. It is almost certain that other countries, or of driving licences for us every year. It is perfectly indeed travel firms, will require us to have proof of sensible, and actually imperative, for the Government vaccination. As hon. Members will know, I was the to run those things in parallel. We do not have to wait, Prime Minister’s trade envoy to Nigeria for a number of quite bluntly, for the Council of Europe, or indeed for years, and my body is still awash with the enormous Departments here, to decide on the ethics before pursuing number of inoculations that I had. When I went to the practicalities. 9WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 10WH

This is inevitable. Other countries will be opening their gave, albeit prematurely, the most powerful response to airports to those who are able to enter with a certificate the consultation. When asked by whether or passport—however we describe it—and airlines will people will need certification to go to the pub, he said be eager to carry passengers there. The public will be no, and I think that is a fair way to begin the consultation. keen to travel. Therefore, we need to do this in an orderly and practical manner. Also, let us not forget those who work for airlines and at airports, and the 5.5 pm hundreds of thousands of our citizens who fear for their job—many of them have lost their job already—as Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD) [V]: It is a pleasure well as those in the travel industry. to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. I ask you to imagine the scene a few months from now: I can If we are able to produce such certificates, we should finally go out to a restaurant to catch up with a friend perhaps also consider domestic settings, in order to be for a real meal, instead of the dreaded Zoom meals that able to get many of our industries back to work sooner we have all become accustomed to. At the door we are rather than later. Many businesses are teetering on the both asked to show proof of vaccination. One of us is brink and employees in the hospitality industry, at vaccinated, but the other is not. I am allowed entry, but sports venues and in the entertainment industry—which my friend is not. Is that really the sort of country we is something we do rather well in this country, and wish to live in—one in which we have two tiers of rights which is one of the attractions—are worried about their and discriminate over access to goods and services on job and their future. We should be backing them. the basis of health status? Too often in the debate on this issue, I am told, “If 5.2 pm everyone has the chance to be vaccinated, it is their own Mr (Hazel Grove) (Con): It is an fault if they turn it down,” which fundamentally misses unquantifiable pleasure, as ever, to serve under your several points. There are those who cannot be vaccinated, chairmanship, Sir David. perhaps for health reasons.As a newly pregnant constituent said to me in an email, she and other pregnant women There is no doubt about the prescience apparent in will not be able to get vaccinated while they are pregnant. the debate, and the power of the oratory of the hon. If she is able to breastfeed, she will not be able to get Member for Hartlepool (Mike Hill) has caused the vaccinated during the period in which she breastfeeds, Cabinet Office to publish—during his speech—the terms either. of reference for the review and, indeed, the consultation on it, which closes on 29 March. I thank him very much Furthermore, at present, none of the vaccines is indeed for the power of his oratory, which has made the authorised for adolescents. Are we saying that teenagers Cabinet Office announce the publication of those important should not be able to go to the cinema with their friends documents. or have a family pub lunch? The groups least likely to There are three matters to consider. The first, which take up the vaccine are among the most marginalised, has been alluded to, is international travel, and there and they would become yet more marginalised by vaccine is no doubt, as the right hon. Member for Warley passports. Such passports would be, essentially, a way (John Spellar) said, that it will resume. We have to get to make vaccines mandatory, but coercion is never a on with that and ensure that we have sensible proposals good way to build trust or to persuade people to do that chime with those of our international partners. something. The more vexed question is that of health workers. I would also question whether we are offering false There is the precedent of the hepatitis B vaccine, but and perhaps even dangerous hope. As the Ada Lovelace given the concern in the care sector about a relatively Institute states, low uptake of the covid vaccine, that is where the issue “the vaccine passport is premised on the assumption that my will arise. I simply say this: after the year that those vaccine status tells you something about the risk I pose to you, people have had, is it imaginable that the owner of a not simply the risk I face from COVID-19.” care home will say to their care workers, “Unless you As yet, we do not have conclusive evidence regarding take this jab, you’ll be dismissed from your employment.”? transmission, and no vaccine will ever be 100% effective. This will come down to that consideration. Furthermore, we know that vaccine efficacy might be The third issue, which I am totally opposed to, is that diminished by new mutations and variants of covid-19. of covid vaccine certification for everyday use by citizens Covid vaccine status would therefore not be of fixed or so as to access venues and services. It has become standard duration applicable to all countries. unfashionable in politics to talk about things that we I want to end by blowing out of the water the idea believe in, and things that we used to know as values. I that vaccine passports are the key to reopening our dare say that in this debate I am probably an accidental economy and society. The relentless focus on vaccination libertarian. That was never a description that I would at the cost of everything else has been the hallmark of have liked to be applied to me before this year, but it is the Government’s approach to the coronavirus since the one that I fear I will never be able to escape. However, pandemic began. We have seen from Taiwan, Australia those are deeply conservative principles, and there is a and New Zealand that it is possible to lift restrictions strange utilitarian, if not Benthamite, tendency coming on liberties with robust public health interventions, into aspects of this Conservative Government and their both at borders and through an effective test, trace and policy. isolate system. Our focus should be on the 20,000 Absolutely, we must fully encourage uptake of the people a day not self-isolating, not on putting in place a vaccine—what a tremendous success it is and what discriminatory system from a Government who have foresight the Government showed in that aspect—but it proved time and again that they cannot be trusted with was the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster who personal data. 11WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 12WH

[Munira Wilson] best placed to make their own choices. I am incredibly proud of the progress the United Kingdom has made in As we see today with the Police, Crime, Sentencing vaccinating the population, but that should be used to and Courts Bill, once the Government have encroached set people free, not to restrict their freedoms further. on our liberties under the cover of a pandemic, they will I close with this view: I fear that, should vaccine not be minded to hand them back easily. Will vaccine certificates become commonplace, they would inevitably technologies be switched off once they are no longer expand and endure beyond the immediate challenges of needed? To quote a member of the Ada Lovelace expert this pandemic. I do not believe that should be allowed group: to happen. “Once a road is built, good luck not using it.” Sir David Amess (in the Chair): Mr Paisley has had to 5.8 pm temporarily leave our proceedings because he is on the call list in the main Chamber.I call Mr . Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. 5.12 pm Many of the arguments relevant to the debate have already been eloquently made, not least by my hon. Friends Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD) the Members for Wycombe (Mr Baker), for Hazel Grove [V]: It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, (Mr Wragg) and for Bolton West (Chris Green). I shall Sir David. begin with the concept of international versus domestic. I add my voice to those in this debate who have I am far less concerned with vaccine passports focused spoken about the importance of us all encouraging our on opening up borders. It is not unusual to need a host fellow citizens to take up their vaccination. On Wednesday of jabs to travel to certain places, and I have happily morning, I shall be joining the queues in the Pickaquoy proven my vaccination status on, for example, yellow Centre in Kirkwall to have my vaccination, and I very fever when visiting Tanzania. That is right and fair, but much look forward to the extra freedoms that that may domestic covid certificates, whether used by public services allow me. or private businesses, would be intrusive, pointless and However, it is worth remembering that one year ago wrong. I fear they would be tantamount to moving we all, as a country, surrendered a significant number of vaccination on to a more mandatory footing. important freedoms to the Government. It was a necessary The World Health Organisation released a statement thing to do at the time, because we were facing something only a couple of months ago, saying that it was opposed where we did not really know how it would pan out. for the time being to the introduction of vaccine passports. One year on, though, we know an awful lot better how That said, there does appear to be a global push towards we must deal with this pandemic. We see the great these restrictions on individual liberty. In my opinion, increase in the numbers of our fellow citizens getting the Minister for Covid Vaccine Deployment, my hon. Friend vaccinated, and I suggest that the Government’s efforts the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi), should be focused on returning our liberties rather than was right when he stated that vaccine certificates would tightening them further. That is why I oppose the idea be “discriminatory”. of a vaccine passport. I want to be clear that, when my turn comes, I will be I think the right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar) having my jab, and I encourage everybody to have their and I are the only people on the call list for this debate covid vaccination when offered it. However, the vaccine who were in the House when the Labour party, then in passport concept would have a disproportionate impact government, passed the Identity Cards Act 2006. I will on groups in our society where vaccine hesitancy is at its just remind the House why many of us opposed that highest. We cannot allow a position where significant particular measure. It was not just the idea of having to numbers of Britons are turned away from jobs and carry an identity card; it was because along with that services on the basis of their vaccination status. identity card there came the need for a register and a Moreover, as other hon. Members have said, some database. It was the considerations of the cost of those, people cannot be vaccinated. There are groups that and the security implications of the Government’s holding are medically advised to avoid vaccination, from so much data, that led many of us to oppose the Act, pregnant women, as the hon. Member for Twickenham and I would say that, 15 years later, nothing has changed. (Munira Wilson) mentioned, to people with other health Of course, for some occupations it will be sensible for conditions, such as a young woman in my constituency employers or others to ask for evidence of vaccination, who wrote to me, who suffers from epilepsy but is but that is a very different proposition from the one otherwise healthy. She is desperate to return to her being put to us today. To call it a passport is a good university and continue her education. Should she not analogy. Let us consider this: in theory, we only need also be allowed to take part in our society? our passport if we are going to travel abroad, but in The implication for young people at large would practice, I can tell the House that I have often had to indeed be immense. At present, most young people have argue that it is not necessary for me to produce my not been offered a vaccine. Vaccine certificates would passport to get on a plane at Heathrow to go to Aberdeen. result in young people facing more stringent social We are required to produce passports for a whole restrictions than others, all through no fault of their range of things these days. They are not only needed to own. travel abroad; a passport needs to be produced to open Importantly, a vaccine certificate scheme may also be a bank account or instruct a new solicitor. Once we counterproductive, with research showing that compelling have said that it is okay to have a passport for covid, people to take vaccines does not necessarily result in the where will that argument go when the threat of covid higher uptake that we all want to see. Individuals are has receded? If it was okay for covid, why not require 13WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 14WH people to produce a passport for HIV, for example? but we are asking people to inject something into their What we have before us today is the very thin end of a bodies, through a medical procedure, and that requires thick and dangerous wedge. consent. That is a basic idea that we subscribe to. No The concept of a vaccine passport is not just a matter Government should be in the business of mandating or of administrative convenience; it is a first step in a coercing people to do that. major redefinition of the relationship between the citizen As much as we may feel that getting vaccinated is the and the state, which we should not take so lightly. When right thing to do, people have rights and responsibilities freedoms are given up, the state rarely rushes to return over their own bodies. I draw the line firmly at coercing them. Remember how it was the last time we had people to get vaccinated. That seems to be discriminatory identity cards. It was only going to be for the duration and there would certainly be a legal challenge. We have of the second world war, but seven years after the end of to win the argument, recognising that some people will that war, it required a citizen to take the Government to not want the vaccine or be able to have it, for whatever court to end it. That is why this matters. reason. That is their free choice. 5.16 pm Somebody described the vaccine passport as a requirement to prove vaccine status before being able to Ben Bradley (Mansfield) (Con) [V]: It is difficult to go to the pub or an event, or, as someone suggested, to speak at the end of this debate as the last Member on get a job. I think that is truly abhorrent. That would be the Government side. Much has already been said in coercion on a level that I have never seen in any democratic this short debate, which has been full of excellent points, country, and not something I could ever support. The particularly those made by my hon. Friend the Member idea that any Government, never mind a Conservative for Wycombe (Mr Baker). one, could say “no jab, no job” is entirely morally I want to firmly and clearly lay out my position on wrong. I assume, therefore, that there are no plans to do the issue of vaccine passports. In the media, there are this. I hope the Minister will reaffirm that. I have been different versions of what they might look like. We have told by other Ministers in the past that there are no had what one might consider to be a vaccine passport plans to do it. for international travel for a long time, as those visiting No matter how much I may personally believe that it Africa or South America have to prove they have had is important and the right thing to have the vaccine, it the relevant inoculations, most commonly against malaria will fundamentally impact on people’s basic rights if we but for other diseases, too. People who make those require vaccination status to be shown in our daily lives, journeys do that routinely as part of their travel plans. for our very basic rights, and be a huge backwards step As colleagues have said, those decisions are not made for our liberty and freedom. unilaterally by the UK. We do not have the power to tell other countries what to do about immunisations, including the covid vaccine. If Guatemala wants visitors to have 5.19 pm inoculations, then that is up to Guatemala. In my view, Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP) [V]: It is an absolute it makes sense for the UK to have a system by which pleasure to speak on this issue. I have had many people people can prove their vaccine status, if that is what contacting me. To make it clear from the outset, I have they want to do. People are highly likely to need to be come back to my office today after having gone for my able to do that if they want to travel extensively, but that vaccine shot. That is the first one done, and I look is largely up to other countries. forward to the second. We would therefore be well advised to have something I annually take a flu shot due to my diabetes, and I like that available for people to access—importantly—if booked in as soon as I was able to get the covid vaccine they choose to do so. If that has to be a database, I see on the list as prepared. I am not a medical person, and I no reason why the existing NHS app—or some other do not understand the in-depth biology and virology means where such data is already shared—could not be that is needed for a discussion of the vaccine. I made the adapted for that function. I hope Ministers will look at decision in the same way as I trusted the doctor when he that before they try to reinvent the wheel. put me on my diabetes medication—I did not research In my mind, there is no reason why this should not the clinical trials. I am happy to take the vaccine, and simply be done on paper, rather than requiring all this have done so today. However, the key part of this data sharing and the minefield that comes with it. statement is that I have chosen to do so. I was advised to People already get a certificate or an email when they do so and I followed the advice, but ultimately it was my get their covid test result, which could be used as proof. choice. I am happy to encourage people to take the I am yet to find anyone who had a problem with the vaccine. I have often pressed Ministers in this House for idea of proving a negative test, at least in the short term. greater availability for teachers, for instance. However, I Obviously, we hope all this goes away and we do not will never instruct anyone to take it; that is not my have to do it for long, but in the interest of getting place. It is my reasoned opinion. events and businesses up and running faster, it might The message that is coming through loud and clear to make sense for people to show a result to attend a mass me is that there are many who are pleased to be able to event, such as a football match or a concert. I think access the vaccine. They see it as the first step towards businesses would welcome that if it helped them to get regaining normality.I have repeatedly had correspondence up and running faster. That is something we could and and emails from people asking when they will be able to should look at. Importantly, that is the line for me, and get the vaccine. Just as a GP will not force anyone to for many others. take medication they are not happy with, even if they I believe in the vaccine; it is a great feat of science and sincerely believe it to be in the person’s best interests, innovation to be able to deliver it. I believe everyone neither can or should this Government play a part in should have it, and I will have it when my turn comes, forcing vaccination by introducing a vaccine passport. 15WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 16WH

[Jim Shannon] had a vaccination to board its flights. Some UK businesses have declared that all employees must be vaccinated or It is absolutely right and proper that the Government face a review of their contracts. However, the legality of investigate the pros and cons, and follow other nations that has been disputed by employment lawyers and in doing so. However, the most recent report I read trade unions. The Justice Secretary has said it may be made it clear that the vaccine programme had been legal if it were written into contracts. incredibly successful without the threat of the removal Israel has developed the Green Pass mobile app to of freedoms. More than 24 million people so far have show that a person has received a covid vaccine. It can had a first vaccine, and about 1.5 million have had a be used to access indoor seating and restaurants and to second. Let us hope that the number of doses rises over attend events in stadiums, among other things. In the the next few days. US, President Biden announced an assessment of the People want this. Eight in 10 people stated that they feasibility of linking covid-19 vaccination to international would take a vaccine if one was available for them in the certificates of vaccination or prophylaxis—ICVPs—and week that the survey was taken. That is up from 55% in producing electronic versions. November, shortly before the first covid-19 vaccine was I have asked numerous parliamentary questions over approved. To achieve herd immunity, it is understood the past year about vaccine passports, as it is an issue that we should have about 80% take-up. We must that I know interests many constituents, with views both understand that there are those who are unsure whether in favour and against. There are manyethical considerations, to take the vaccine, such as those with serious underlying with arguments that passports are discriminatory.Vaccine health conditions. They should never be isolated because hesitancy is more likely in black and minority ethnic they cannot provide a copy of their up-to-date vaccination communities, and cultural uncertainty exists. Poorer card. communities are also less likely to be vaccinated. Some Whenever I went away with the Armed Forces people are medically excluded from vaccination. Issues Parliamentary Scheme to Kenya, we had to have such as whether a child is vaccinated might also be vaccinations. It was required, and it was for our better influenced by wealth, parental education or even just health. That was some time ago. However, the right not the place of residence. Then we have issues around data to be isolated or, as one constituent said to me, ostracised protection of any scheme, the security of it and the risk for a personal medical choice can never be something of fraudulent or fake certificates, which could undermine that the Government enforce on our constituents. the process. There are questions as to how long certificates I will end where I began. I got the vaccination and would be valid. was very happy to do so, but it was my choice, and it Taking every step to eliminate the virus needs to be must remain so without enforcement through covid our priority. However, the top priority right now must passports. I urge the Government to hold fast to what remain the successful continuation of the vaccine roll-out. their mantra has been throughout—that they are While agreeing on 15 January 2021 to further investigate “deeply, spiritually reluctant to make any of these impositions, or the efficacy and utility of vaccine passports, the World infringe anyone’s freedom”. Health Organisation’sEmergency Committee on Covid-19 Throughout covid, the public have permitted the curtailment made the following recommendation to states: of personal freedom for the greater good, but I believe “At the present time, do not introduce requirements of proof of that this vaccine passport takes us a step further than vaccination or immunity for international travel as a condition many will be comfortable going. Again, I urge people to of entry as there are still critical unknowns regarding the efficacy take the vaccine when they have the opportunity, but I of vaccination in reducing transmission and limited availability of will certainly not prevent them from accessing my advice vaccines. Proof of vaccination should not exempt international centre, office and staff if their health or another reason travellers from complying with other travel risk reduction measures.” forbids them from doing so. That is sound advice in my opinion. In their response to the petition, the UK Government 5.23 pm have said: Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP) “The Government is reviewing whether COVID-status certificates [V]: It is a pleasure to participate virtually in today’s could play a role in reopening parts of our economy, reducing debate under your chairmanship, Sir David. I commend restrictions on social contact and improving safety.” my Petitions Committee colleague, the hon. Member The Scottish Government are also considering the role for Hartlepool (Mike Hill), for his opening speech on that a vaccination certificate might have. However, it is behalf of the Committee. The impressive manner in too soon to introduce any form of certification. Experts which he spoke set the scene for the rest of the debate. and Ministers still need to know more about the efficacy This is one of the more interesting debates to emerge of the vaccines, their impact on transmission and the from the coronavirus pandemic. It has implications for length of immunity before it is safe or sensible to health and business, and there are serious ethical questions. introduce a vaccine certificate. To this end, the Scottish This is not some theoretical or abstract debate; it has Government continue to engage with international considerable real-world implications for us now. As part developments in relation to covid-19, including on the of their reviews of easing lockdown restrictions, the subject of vaccine certification. This includes consideration UK Government have declared that they will review the of technical details, ethical and equality issues, and of ethics and legality of vaccine passports—domestic covid course privacy standards.The outcome of those discussions certificates for UK businesses, venues and hospitality. will guide the Scottish Government’s work in this area. Saga, which specialises in holidays for the over-50s, A vaccine certificate could play a valuable role, but says that passengers on its 2021 holidays or cruises must there are various issues to work through, not least the be fully vaccinated. Australian airline Qantas says that significant equalities issues with allowing freedoms only travellers will eventually need to prove that they have for people who are vaccinated. 17WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 18WH

It is worth remembering that vaccine passports are In conclusion, there may be some merit to certification really a new name for something that is not a new idea. in areas such as international travel, but we need to be wary Indeed, they have been almost universally adopted or of creating some dystopian future where those with a supported at various points in history.The first international recent vaccination can lead a full and normal life while certificate of vaccination was introduced in 1944 as proof those without become second-class citizens, with severe of vaccination against smallpox. Throughout the following restrictions on their freedoms. Of course, neither the decades, it led to a significant reduction in the international Scottish nor the UK Government will have the authority spread of the disease, as ever more travellers were or power to stop other countries from requiring travellers required to be vaccinated. After the declared eradication to take the coronavirus vaccine before going to those of smallpox in 1980, the smallpox-specific certificate countries, but what we do here is up to us. Keeping the was cancelled, but the precedent has been established matter under review is probably the correct position for and countries have continued to adopt vaccine regulations the time being, so let us stay focused on getting people when a significant risk is posed to public health. vaccinated and eliminating the spread of the virus. Several countries already have some form of vaccine 5.32 pm passports in place, requiring proof of vaccination documented on an international certificate of vaccine Fleur Anderson () (Lab): It is a pleasure to or prophylaxis before people enter or leave the country. serve under your chairship, Sir David. I am grateful to Indeed, like many others, I already have such a certificate. my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mike Hill) Polio vaccinations are still mandatory for travellers to for leading the debate on behalf of the Petitions Committee and from countries that are still afflicted by this terrible and for further sharing the petitioners’ concerns with us disease, and many countries require proof of vaccination all. As he said, over 290,000 people have signed this for yellow fever for all arriving travellers. This applies e-petition, which shows the strength of feeling across even to those travelling from somewhere not designated the country,and that includes 700 people in my constituency by the World Health Organisation as a yellow fever risk of Putney. The question of vaccine passports is crucial country, so we have plenty of examples on which to and complex, but it needs an answer soon, so such debates draw. are welcome. There are so many issues and considerations at play, so I am pleased to be able to contribute on With regard to covid, a number of other countries behalf of the Opposition. require all international travellers to stay in designated We have heard some interesting contributions this hotel on arrival, generally at their own expense, which afternoon, raising many questions that need to be heard. has proved effective in minimising the risk of importing In opening the debate, my hon. Friend spoke about the new cases. The Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies concerns of younger people, who have not been offered has reportedly advised that only a universally applied the vaccine yet, so the timing will be important. We also policy will be effective in reducing the risk of importation, heard about the concerns of those who might not have and the joint biosecurity centre has made it clear that a the tech needed, such as smartphones, and about the blanket approach to managed isolation is required, as it technology of any passport or certificate, especially if it cannot confidently assess the risk of new variants appearing is digital. My right hon. Friend the Member for Warley in other countries. (John Spellar) talked about the important principle of Unfortunately, the UK Government continue to rely no medical treatment without consent, about the need on a targeted approach for international arrivals. As a to be led by the science and about whether contingency result, the Scottish Government’s approach goes further plans are being made for the roll-out of certificates, in than England’s and requires all international arrivals to parallel with discussions about the ethics in this debate. enter hotel quarantine. This has been managed as part Airlines are rolling this out already, so it will be of a four-nations approach, with the UK Government happening—we heard from the hon. Member for managing the online booking system and the hotel Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Martyn Day) about Saga contracts. The Scottish Government continue to press Holidays requiring vaccination. How will it be possible the UK Government to adopt a more comprehensive to meet this requirement? What documentation will be approach and to quarantine all international rivals. The asked for? There will need to be some answers.Importantly, SNP’s preference is for a consistent quarantine rule we also heard from my right hon. Friend the Member across the UK to effectively prevent new variants from for Warley about the impact of getting business back to entering Scotland and undermining the vaccination work and saving jobs. That needs to be a top consideration programme. in this debate. One of the challenges of the certification approach is As Members have said, the success of the vaccine that experts around the world are still learning about roll-out has been an absolute delight, and I commend the vaccine’s effect on things such as the transmission all people who worked so hard in creating and distributing of the virus—a challenge that has been recognised by the vaccine. They are all heroes. I echo my hon. Friend the World Health Organisation and SAGE. The Scottish the Member for Nottingham North (Alex Norris), who Government continue to engage in international made clear in a similar debate back in December that developments in relation to covid-19, including vaccination the root of a lot of these discussions is vaccine hesitancy. certification. These discussions are led globally by the Vaccines are the most effective public health intervention World Health Organisation and will include consideration in relation to coronavirus or health in general, and are of technical details, ethical and equality issues, and the ultimate ticket out of this crisis; I think we all agree privacy standards. As I said earlier, it is too early yet to on that. It is therefore hugely important that a significant assess whether this is viable, but it is appropriate for proportion of people take up the vaccination, especially Governments to continue to keep the vaccine certification those with the greatest vulnerabilities. Like many other under review, as further evidence around vaccines and Members, I will take up the vaccine as soon as I am immunity emerges. offered it. 19WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 20WH

[Fleur Anderson] work or housing; we do not want the passport abused and extended beyond what is legally required, or want Those hesitant to take the vaccine should not be it extended in time. These are all hugely important mischaracterised as anti-vaxxers. That is not fair or considerations for the Government to reflect on in true. Those who spout anti-vaccine conspiracy theories making this decision, so we welcome this debate. are a very small group of people indeed. A much more I end with a few questions for the Minister. I understand significant and noticeable number of people, though far that the Government are reviewing whether covid status from the majority, are vaccine-hesitant. I have spoken certificates could play a role in reopening parts of our to local GPs in my constituency about this. There may economy, reducing restrictions on social contact and be a number of reasons why people do not want the improving safety. Can she share with us the progress on vaccine, and we need to respect those reasons. Others this review, and what it has found so far? What external maynot want to do so owing to safety concerns—something advice are the Government drawing on to inform the I have heard from some of my constituents. They want review’s recommendations? Is there research on the to be sure that any vaccine, be it for covid-19 or anything impact of a certificate on vaccine hesitancy? Finally, if else, is safe. We all have a role to play in giving them that the Government do proceed, how will they navigate the confidence. questions posed by civil liberties groups and ensure that There are some serious practical matters that the the passport does not create a two-tier system? Government should address to help improve the vaccine This is a hugely important discussion that navigates take-up. For example, the GMB union highlighted that new territory, but we need answers sooner rather than the Government’s adult social care infection control later. It is vital that the Government listen to all voices, fund provides full sick pay for sickness in social care, yet for and against, including the voices of those who it does not financially cover the immediate after-effects signed the petition. of having the vaccine, which makes some people poorly for 24 hours. We do not want any low-paid social care workers to be hesitant because they might lose a day’s 5.40 pm pay if they have the vaccine, so if that reason can be The Paymaster General (Penny Mordaunt): It is a taken away, that will increase vaccine take-up. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. I We have seen through these developments and through congratulate all Members who spoke in the debate and our experiences in this country that the best method of who helped to secure it, particularly the hon. Member countering those views is through proactive, positive for Hartlepool (Mike Hill). I also congratulate the health-promoting campaigns. I know that is something petitioner and everyone who signed the petition that the Government are doing; I am following it closely. It has led to the debate, which is timely for a number of is welcome, and we will support the Government in this. reasons. First, it is a pre-emptive strike, because the If they decide to introduce vaccine passports or certificates covid status certification review has yet to commence— in any way, I hope that they continue with those health- indeed, as was alluded to, its terms of reference and the promoting campaigns as a priority. detail of what it will consider were published today; Vaccine passports, certificates or any other name that information can be looked at on the Government they might be given are one of several possible responses website. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy to vaccine hesitancy. They may well play an important of Lancaster will lead on this and will primarily look at role in reopening the economy and society and keeping the domestic-facing issues that many Members referred residents of care homes safe, for example, but they may to. The review goes wider than vaccinations, taking in be unnecessary and impossible to implement fairly. This testing and an array of other issues. To be helpful is a highly complex area and there are no easy answers to hon. Members, let me say that, in parallel, a cross- to this issue, so we will need to have a national conversation Government group chaired by the Secretary of State for about this, and the Labour party will play its part. Our Transport is working on the international-facing and principle is that the Government must not abdicate travel issues that Members have spoken about. That their responsibility and simply leave this to the private feeds into the work of the covid team in the Cabinet sector to do any way and haphazardly, which will only Office, and CDL has ultimate responsibility for that. lead to confusion and unfairness. Any decisions on The review will report in advance of step 4 on the vaccine passports must be based on firm evidence, such road map, which, as hon. Members will know, will be as the effect of vaccinations on transmission and reached no earlier than 21 June. The review has come international best practice from countries that have about in part because in spring, the Government committed implemented vaccine certification schemes. There are in their covid-19 response to reviewing the potential currently several country-based examples for us to observe, role of certification in our handling of covid-19 from such as Israel. summer onwards. The review will assess whether We all want lockdown to end and we all want as certification could play a role in opening up the economy many people as possible to take the vaccine. Vaccine and society, reducing restrictions on social contact and passports could provide an extra layer of protection for improving safety. I reassure hon. Members that we very the vulnerable, they could be effective in protecting much want to return to our normal way of life, which workers and they could give businesses in certain sectors means not just lifting restrictions, but having all the the confidence they need to go forward. There are, other things that we previously enjoyed and have missed however, legitimate concerns about the implications of over the last 12 months. vaccine passports for civil liberties and for discrimination. The review will consider the extent to which certification We cannot ignore either. We do not want a two-tier would be effective in reducing risk and helping to open system in which those who are not vaccinated, especially up parts of the economy. It will look at the ethical, the marginalised, are blocked from essential public services, privacy, legal and operational aspects of certification 21WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 22WH and their implications for those who are unwilling or bring it in? He raised very important points about unable to be vaccinated, the equalities implications, to equality. I can confirm that those are in the terms of which hon. Members have referred, and the impact of reference for the review. Also, I hope he will take some certification on groups who are disproportionately affected comfort from what Ministers have said in the past about by the pandemic. papers for having a pint. I think that that is the approach that people want to take, but it is right that we look at Mr Steve Baker: There are many questions that I these issues and look at them in a transparent way. would love to ask, but I will ask one in particular. Can Again, this debate will help to inform and steer the the Minister confirm that, if people choose not to get review. vaccinated, they will bear their own responsibility and the rest of us will not be held back because some people John Spellar: Is not one of the fundamental rights the have made a personal choice not to have the vaccine? If ability to work? Huge numbers of our citizens are not they do not want the vaccine, that is fine, but they able to work. Many have been made unemployed. Many should not hold the rest of us back. are teetering on the edge because their businesses are on the edge. Surely the has shown us how Penny Mordaunt: I cannot give my hon. Friend many we can move prudently and at pace, and perhaps we answers today, as the review has just started, but what I need to be getting a bit of urgency into this. would say to him is that, in all of this, we have to remember that the reason why we are charting our way Penny Mordaunt: I thank the right hon. Gentleman out of this situation is, yes, in part due to fantastic for those comments and, indeed, for his contribution in science and the success of the vaccine programme, but the debate. He is right. I think that everyone in the also that members of the public have taken care of and House, no matter which side of the argument they are taken responsibility for themselves and other people. on, wants people to be able to get back to those freedoms We have not legislated for that to happen; it has happened that we had perhaps taken for granted—the freedoms because people feel motivated to take responsibility. We not just to be with our loved ones and to have a social have to remember in all of this that, even though we are life, but to earn a living. The cost of the last 12 months very used to passing laws talking about enforcement to individuals in not being able to do that has been and all those other things, ultimately this has been devastating. We all understand that. That is why we about the British public taking responsibility for themselves, want to look at all the practical measures we can to give their families and their communities. people as much certainty as possible in future. We need I thank the hon. Member for Hartlepool for setting to ensure that the review looks at the practicalities: what out at the start of the debate why this is not a call from would be the upside if this were to come to pass? anti-vaxxers or covid sceptics. It is not. Legitimate The hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) questions are being raised about our freedoms and the spoke about the importance of evidence, particularly of practicalities and the implications of this for people the effect of the vaccine on transmission rates. Like who are disproportionately affected by covid. The hon. other hon. Members, she also discussed pregnant women. Gentleman also raised the issue of the degree of control In a week when we have been looking at how women are we have over decisions that may be taken in international short-changed in a variety of ways and while many forums. As I understand it, any international agreement women going to job interviews still complain about would be years off; an initiative spearheaded, for example, questions about whether they are pregnant or planning by the World Health Organisation, would be many a family, anything that put further weight on someone’s years down the line. We are in control of what we decide having to demonstrate why they did not have a certificate about our own borders and our own systems, but clearly would be very disappointing indeed. my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport and others are talking to international counterparts to My hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West get something that makes sense and also to learn from (Chris Green) focused on the importance of trust and good practice. the fact that, ultimately, trust is how we are going to get The hon. Gentleman also spoke about those who are through this—we have to rely on that, rather than not able to have the vaccine. People have spoken about having so much focus on Government action. The hon. physical health conditions, but there are also mental Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) spoke eloquently health conditions. I have been speaking to people who about the absolute issues of civil liberties and certain have a severe phobia of needles and could not in any individuals who may be missing out—particularly those way be injected. I know that vaccine companies are who will be vaccinated later in the programme. My hon. looking at alternatives, but at the moment we do not Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) emphasised have those alternatives. that we have to listen to others’ experiences and ideas. The right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar) raised My hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) the issue of international travel, which I have addressed, spoke very powerfully, as he always does, about our and the fact that people are more likely to be open to freedoms. As an aside, I will say that I looked up the data being shared if there is a benefit to them from powerful Patrick McGoohan quote that he gave from doing so. That is what we need to come back to in this “The Prisoner”. I have to say that my hon. Friend did review: what is the benefit to our citizens of doing this? not say the preceding two lines, which were: My hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove “I will not make any deals with you”, (Mr Wragg), Chairman of the Public Administration and and, Constitutional Affairs Committee, asked about employees. “I’ve resigned”, Again, the matter would be for individual employees. although he has used those in other debates. But he My understanding is that contracts would have to be does make a very powerful case about the practicalities. rewritten if vaccination were to be made compulsory. Would this actually have a practical effect if we were to On the back of his comments, I pay tribute to all 23WH Vaccine Passports 15 MARCH 2021 Vaccine Passports 24WH

[Penny Mordaunt] the vaccine because it is good for them and it is good for other people. We need to remember that that is why we healthcare professionals who are doing an incredible are winning this battle against covid: it is personal job in phoning up individuals who have concerns about action by our citizens, doing the right thing. I assure her taking the vaccine to reassure them. That is the way to that we will not let up on our public health campaigns do this, and a huge effort is being made to give people either. confidence that they can take it. The vaccine programme continues to be successful, The hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) and I thank all who are contributing to it. We look raised the issues of evidence and transmission and of forward to the economy’s unlocking and to getting back those who are highly marginalised. My hon. Friend the to what we remember as normal—whether that is being Member for Buckingham (Greg Smith) also spoke about able to see loved ones, to attend a protest if we wish to, those issues, and he and the right hon. Member for or simply to enjoy a pint in a beer garden with roses in Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) both spoke bloom—but if we are to get back to that, we must also about the dangers of creep: if such things happen, focus on the practical things that must happen. Hon. where will it all stop? Those points have been well made Members have touched on those practical and ethical and will have been heard by my right hon. Friend the issues, but I think they have also summed up the public Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. mood: people want to get back to normal and they do My hon. Friend the Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) not want to be told what to do. If we are going to do spoke about the dangers of people being coerced into anything in this space, it must be of practical benefit taking the vaccine; I point him to the very clear statements and it must be something that the public would wish to that the Prime Minister has made on that subject—that be done. no one should be coerced or forced to take the vaccine; I thank all hon. Members for contributing to the it is a personal choice. Enormous numbers of people debate, which I am sure will help to shape the review. It are taking it, of course, including the hon. Member for will not be long before my right hon. Friend the Chancellor Strangford (Jim Shannon), whom I congratulate on of the Duchy of Lancaster will be back to report on the getting his. I hope it was a positive experience. He will, I findings. am sure, have been very moved by the work that not just healthcare professionals but volunteers are doing. Good 5.56 pm luck with the second jab! Mike Hill: I thank all right hon. and hon. Members The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk for their excellent contributions. Let us simply hope (Martyn Day), the spokesman for the SNP, rightly said that the review, the terms of reference for which have that the main effort needs to be the vaccine roll-out. I been published today, progresses sensibly and in a non- agree and hope that we can take a four-nation approach discriminatory fashion. on these other matters. Wewant simplicity and consistency Question put and agreed to. for all our citizens. Resolved, The hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) raised That this House has considered e-petition 569957, relating to a number of questions, some of which I think are vaccine passports. answered by the terms of reference and the publication put out today. She is right that we want to have all 5.57 pm efforts behind the vaccine programme. People are taking Sitting suspended. 25WH 15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 26WH

Covid-19: Impact on Education child’s experience of the past year has been the same. We need a response that, as far as possible, caters for that individual child. That is the first point I wanted to [MR LAURENCE ROBERTSON in the Chair] make. Secondly,on mental health, research published by MIND 6.15 pm showed that 73% of those at school feel as though their mental health has deteriorated over the past year. There Mr Laurence Robertson (in the Chair): I remind hon. is a massive challenge in front of the Government; there Members that there have been some changes to normal is a massive challenge in front of schools; and there is a practice to support the new hybrid arrangements. Timings massive challenge in front of young people, to try to of debates have been amended to allow technical make up for some of the learning loss that has clearly arrangements to be made for the next debate. There will happened over the last year. Another point that I would also be suspensions between each debate. I remind make is that I think we should be careful in the language Members participating physically and virtually that they that we use. There is a big challenge in front of us, but must arrive for the start of debates in Westminster Hall, we should be aware that the anxiety that many young and they are expected to remain for the entire debate. I people feel at the moment is already very significant. must also remind Members participating virtually that Sometimes the words that I see in the media, such as they are visible at all times, both to each other and to us “lost generation” and so on, can fuel those anxieties to in the Boothroyd Room. If Members attending virtually an even greater extent. Yes, there is a significant challenge have any technical problems, they should email the in front of us, but we can overcome it, so in a sense, we Westminster Hall Clerks’email address.Members attending need a degree of positivity and a can-do spirit. My physically should clean their spaces before they use concern is that a daunting situation may become even them and before they leave the room. more daunting if we are not careful about the language that we use. 6.16 pm The Minister will be aware from my position on the (Ipswich) (Con): I beg to move, Education Committee that I speak very frequently about That this House has considered e-petitions 564696, 548778, special educational needs. The national special educational 573621 and 564209, relating to the impact of covid-19 on education. needs and disabilities review has been delayed, but if It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, there can be an advantage from that delay, it is that it Mr Robertson. The first petition is to do with cancelling allows us to properly look at the way in which the GCSEs and A-levels in 2021 and replacing them with pandemic has had a different impact on different children, coursework and teacher assessment, and was created on including those with special educational needs. 29 December; the second is about allowing teacher-predicted That must include not only those with education, grades for BTEC students; the third is about keeping health and care plans, but those who might not have schools closed until May; and the fourth is about closing one of those plans but still have learning disabilities. schools in all tier 4 areas. Dyslexic and dyspraxic pupils would be two examples. Clearly, over the last four or five months, the situation They have not been eligible to come into school most has been incredibly fluid, so for some of those petitions— recently, and some of those individuals have struggled two in particular—circumstances and events have moved with online learning because of the unique way in which ahead of them slightly.However,I do think this a valuable many of them learn. Not having that personal engagement opportunity to have a discussion about the impact of has often made it much more difficult for them to learn covid-19 on our children’s education in a more general and some, I fear, have fallen behind more as a result. sense. We could not get a much broader debate, and I When we talk about those with perhaps more complex imagine that colleagues and I will find it very difficult to and significant needs and disabilities, something else keep our points concise, because this is such a multifaceted that we need to bear in mind is their mental state, and issue, and our children have been impacted in so many how they often struggle with transitions. The movement different ways by covid-19, but I will attempt to do so. I from working online to back into school, to online and will just cover four or five key lessons that I think we then back into school again can have a profound impact need to take away and some of the thoughts that I have. on their mental state. Many of them have been eligible My first point is to do with the danger of making to keep on coming into school, but many have not, and generalisations and assumptions about how a child may there has often been good reason for that. A therapeutic or may not have found schools being closed, particularly approach to help them with the transition from what based on, say, the socioeconomic background that they might seem like quite an unsettling period for them is may come from. There is some evidence, produced by also very important. the Sutton Trust, that suggests that children from more I am encouraged by what I have heard about the deprived backgrounds have been particularly badly tutoring programme, and how, when we think about the impacted by the closure of schools compared with ways in which our young people can catch up from any children from other areas, but we should not necessarily learning loss, there have been some SEND specialists assume that, and we should not assume that a child in a feeding into that. That was encouraging, but it would be different situation found it any easier. I have spoken to a brilliant if I could hear more today about how that is number of families whose children have come from a working in practice. variety of backgrounds and who, for whatever reason, My next point is to do with exams. One of the have found it particularly difficult, and their mental petitions called for a cancellation of exams. Bearing in health has been particularly impacted. In coming to mind the circumstances, I do not think that there was those sorts of generalisations, we should not lose those any alternative. It was the right decision to cancel those individuals’ stories, because, in some senses, no one exams, but I also believe that it was a regrettable decision. 27WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 28WH

[Tom Hunt] There are lots of things that we will have to work out, particularly with catch-up schools over the summer, I think we were left with no choice, but it comes with its such as how they will interrelate with the holiday food own negatives. I believe that exams should be here to and activity programmes, and how that will work. It is stay. I do not think that this should be used as an about having that flexibility with catch-up, so that teachers opportunity to question the role of exams in the medium and headteachers can make those decisions. That goes to long term. I believe that they continue to be the back to what I said earlier: we should not make assumptions fairest way, often, of assessing pupils. about how each child has found lockdown. There is an element of truth in the idea that clearly some home We should also think about those young people who environments are more conducive to online learning actually quite like exams, and find that exams work for than other environments. There is a reality there. Some them. A lot of those children have learning disabilities. I children do not have their own bedroom or a quiet place talk as somebody who has dyspraxia and dyslexia. to work, and they might have parents who want to help When I was a 12-year-old, I had the reading and writing with their learning but, frankly, cannot help as much as age of an eight-year-old. I ended up catching up, and they would like to. Some children have a different did have my struggles at school, but I actually used to background and have their own space and parents who quite like exams because I was an unconventional learner. are able to help them, but we should not assume that. I did not do well in the classroom. I did not go at the Sometimes parents might be able to help but cannot, same pace as everybody else. That revision gave me time because they are working round the clock. We do not to consolidate my knowledge and surprise in my exams. know what their circumstances will be. I really would not have wanted to have been at school over the last year, so we should think about how those In a nutshell, and in summary, my key points are these. children could feel as though their chance to flourish First, we should not generalise or make assumptions has been taken away. and, as far as possible, we should approach each individual young person and try to cater to their needs. My second On the teacher assessment that we will have this year, point, unsurprisingly, is about children with special some schools will have these tests that will feed into the educational needs and the different ways in which this overall assessment, but these tests are not mandatory. has impacted them. As I said, it is so important that we Perhaps they should have been mandatory.Having spoken get SEND right. It is right morally, it is right for them, to the Minister about this before, my understanding is that and it is also necessary for our country, because we do not the teachers at a school will have a degree of flexibility want to lose their talents. This pandemic has in some ways over this, and the approach will not necessarily have to made the situation harder for them. We should also think be the same for all children. It might be that some about those children who the way we have been assessing children in a school can take a test while others do not. has perhaps worked against; they have been losers in that. I would also like to think that pupils could feed into When we are thinking about how covid has impacted the process. If they felt that having a test would mean our young people, we need to be sensitive in the language that their teachers were in a better place to make an that we use and conscious of the way in which their accurate assessment about their progress, I think their learning, but also their mental health, has suffered. It views should be taken into account. I go back to the will be difficult to catch up, but they are our children, point that I made about dyslexic pupils. I have spoken and we will do whatever it takes to support them, so to two headteachers at dyslexic schools, where all the there needs to be a degree of positivity there as well. pupils are dyslexic, and it is interesting that both of those schools have taken a decision to have tests for all 6.28 pm pupils. That is useful in providing a sense as to how it may be that all those children could be negatively Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD) [V]: It is a pleasure impacted by this. to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I really value the opportunity to contribute on all the Another point I would like to make is about children issues raised by these petitions, and also the wider issues who have English as a second language. I know that in for our education sector as a result of covid-19. my own constituency, there are many pupils who come I start by paying tribute to all the teaching staff, under that bracket. I have spoken to headteachers in my school staff, parents and especially children attending constituency who are concerned that the level of schools across my constituency in Kingston and Richmond participation in some of the online learning has been for the successful way that they all returned to school lower in those communities, and also that pupils’ English last week. I was speaking just this morning to the head has actually gone backwards throughout the time that of the education service for both boroughs, and he was schools have been closed. When we are thinking about telling me that it has all gone extremely smoothly. I have catch-up, that aspect needs to be there also. also had an opportunity to speak to teachers from all I was encouraged by a meeting that the Education sorts of schools across the constituency. The testing in Committee had recently with the catch-up commissioner. our secondary schools has gone very well. Most children I have had a number of conversations with headteachers —my own included—are absolutely thrilled to be back in my constituency recently who have said that when we at school and back with their friends. It has all gone are thinking about catch-up, flexibility needs to be extremely well, and I pay huge tribute to staff, parents at the heart of it, and that teachers and headteachers, and children across the constituency. I also want to say who know their children better than anybody else, a huge thank you to all the parents who have been home should be able to take decisions that they believe to schooling over the past few incredibly difficult months. be in the best interests of each individual child. The They have done a wonderful job and can all pat themselves catch-up commissioner made it very clear that that will on the back, having successfully delivered their children be the case. back to school, which is where we all want them to be. 29WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 30WH

I would like to start by asking the Minister for clarity Obviously, the impact of covid on our schools, and on the use of face masks in secondary school. In therefore on our children and young people, has been particular, what does the science say about their benefits huge. I would argue that it is perhaps still being for reducing transmission versus the disadvantages they underestimated. As I have said before in this place, create for communication? I was very lucky to have a personally I would not have closed schools. Being out of Zoom chat last Wednesday with some year 11 students school for months has had a huge impact on the more at Christ’s School in Richmond. It was wonderful to see than 1,000 vulnerable children in Nottinghamshire—that them in their classroom but strange to see them wearing is just the county, excluding the city, so the number face masks.I would appreciate clarity from the Department might be twice as high—who are known to children’s for Education about the value of wearing face masks. services for one reason or another. There was a spike in I also want to ask about exams, which the hon. the number of abuse referrals to children’s services Member for Ipswich (Tom Hunt) raised, with a great following last summer’s lockdown, and I have no doubt deal of interesting insight based on his own experience. that that will happen again now. We owe it to those There is still a great deal of uncertainty about how children in particular to put them at the heart of our qualifications are going to be awarded this year. I am plans for recovery. very concerned that the lack of standardisation across This is not just about vulnerable children; the issue exam centres will negatively affect some students who has affected all children. I am lucky enough to be the may well have achieved better results if they had been father of two primary aged boys— able to sit their exams. I would welcome more clarification on that. It is a pity that it has taken until now for any Mr Laurence Robertson (in the Chair): I am sorry to kind of guidance to be issued, given that the probable interrupt, Mr Bradley, but your voice is not coming need to cancel exams was identified some time ago. through very clearly. Could you try to speak a little The schools I have spoken to are very concerned more loudly or move a little closer to the microphone? about the appeals process and the extent to which it is going to create an additional burden for them. I have no doubt that many parents and students will want to Ben Bradley: I will hold the microphone closer to my appeal the mark they are given, and I am very concerned face. that that will create a big burden for schools at the end It is not only vulnerable children who have been of August, just as they are preparing for the new school impacted by the lockdowns. I am lucky enough to be year. I would welcome further guidance from the DFE the father of two primary age boys, and they have been about how it plans to address that particular topic. lucky enough mostly to continue to attend school, as The biggest issue faced by most schools in my area is my wife has worked on a supermarket shop floor that of funding. Covid has increased massively the throughout, but even they have missed their social lives pressure on school budgets. Obviously, there are increased and have missed out on a lot of experiences. They have costs due to all the covid-secure measures our schools seen both their education and development impacted. have had to take, both now and in September, in order This time in the lives of our children and young people to welcome children back. Many of them are reporting is hugely important, whether it is early development as a hit to their income as a result of being unable to hire a primary school student mastering the academic basics, out their facilities or host sports clubs, for example. School learning to make friends, understanding the school budgets have not increased to meet costs and they are environment and how to act around other people, or not being compensated for any additional expense. That whether it is a teenager studying for major qualifications is a real worry for some of them. Other hits to their income while also coming out of their shell and becoming an include the unavailability of grants that they would adult and finding themselves. How much more difficult usually get. In addition, local authorities have not been must it be for them to begin to find their independence given guidance or clarity on the extent to which they and their own self separate from their parents when can use funds to assist schools in financial difficulty. they are forced to spend every day at home with them and they do not get to go and do anything else? I will end by echoing a point made by the hon. Member for Ipswich in his opening remarks.It is important In terms of what we do about it—this is the key going that schools are able to respond to their pupils’ individual forward—the Government have talked a lot about academic needs at this time. He is absolutely right about some of catch-up and tutoring, which is welcome, but the biggest the language being used. From my own experience as a challenge that parents and teachers have raised with me parent, but also from speaking to schools in my is a social one, not an academic one. Teachers have told constituency, I know that what children have really me that children have forgotten what it means to be in missed is their usual group activities. On catch-up, I school—how to act and behave—and having to relearn want extra funding to go to schools directly, rather than all of that after having changed those behaviours as to outsourced private practitioners, so that they can they are not used to being around groups of people, address the problems that lockdown has caused seeing their friends or being in the classroom. They have schoolchildren. That would really help our students as shrunk back into their shells after having spent so much they go back to school, which we are all so happy to see. time on their own, and it is a challenge now to draw them out again. That means we need to focus not only on academia but on the social side of things. 6.33 pm Weshould offer more support to extracurricular activities, Ben Bradley (Mansfield) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure to including sport. Let us not forget the health and fitness serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson, and to impact, too, and the inequalities that will have grown as speak in this debate, covering a number of petitions a result of lockdown and the inactivity that came with about both the return to school and this year’sassessments. it. We could start by looking seriously at how we can 31WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 32WH

[Ben Bradley] not have done before. There may be a role for using remote learning permanently in some instances. My open up our sports facilities. Some 40% of our nation’s local college reported excellent attendance among some sports facilities remain locked behind school gates at of the students who had not been engaged or showing evenings and weekends. up before; it reported excellent work and excellent progress We have to focus on transitioning children back into by, for example, many students with autism, who might the classroom when they need it, and supporting teachers have struggled in a classroom environment but found to do that. Children moving to secondary school this online learning really positive. Across the board, but year, for example, will have missed so much of the perhaps particularly for post-16 and with SEND pupils, transitional process that they normally would get. The we should review how remote learning could benefit Government could promote and support things such as young people. I know that is part of the Prime Minister’s nurture provision at both primary and secondary level plan for independent and individual tutoring. to help children adapt and ease into school life at their Finally,I will touch on skills.I welcome the Government’s own pace, rather than being chucked in at the deep end. further education White Paper, which has some excellent I hope the Government will be able to support schools proposals for boosting and supporting further education. to deliver some year 7 transition as much as possible for The Minister knows my view that many children would the end of this year. benefit from more access to technical and vocational A few years ago, the then Health Secretary, my right education as part of their curriculum within school or hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey from being allowed out to college earlier in their school (), launched a programme of introducing life. I have always felt that is an opportunity for the and expanding mental health support in schools. I 18% who currently leave school with no qualifications spoke to the Schools Minister recently about that. Will at all to do something different, and to fall in love with he update the House on any discussions about whether education through learning in a way that is directly that plan, which at the time seemed wide ranging and linked to the world of work or to things they enjoy. positive, is considered still to be adequate, or can we Given the impact on so many children who have been speed it up and extend it in the light of the struggles that out of education for so long and the challenge of many will face as a result of the pandemic? getting them back into the classroom and comfortable On the issue of academia, the Prime Minister’s idea in the classroom again, I hope the Minister will give of one-to-one tutoring could be great if it could be consideration to how that might work, not only as a done as an addition to the social support that is needed. chance to get young people back into learning after It will be important to work across schools, colleges and covid, but to complement the FE reforms that have universities to ensure that there is a recognition of the been brought forward by the Government and to help challenges that young people have faced and of the all our young people to get the most out of education in difference between grades given this year compared the long term, including that 18% who previously have with other years, because clearly nobody should be not managed to get those qualifications through traditional disadvantaged as they seek to move on to the next stage schooling. of their lives. With that, I will wrap up. I finish by saying that this is All of that calls into question some of what we do hugely important and, as I said at the start of my around our assessment. I am no detractor from testing speech, we owe it to all our young people and our at all—I think it is important—but we saw the major children to put them at the heart of our recovery plans. challenges faced as a result of so much of our assessment Ultimately, they are the ones who will have to deal with being built only on exams at the end of the year. In the this for the longest, for the future of our country, our absence of those, there have been all sorts of problems. economy and all of us, and they should be front and Obviously, other countries have different systems. Some centre of every decision we make as we look to recover have an ongoing system of teacher-led assessment as a from this pandemic. matter of course. I wonder how the Minister feels those countries might have compared in terms of the challenges 6.41 pm of assessment through this period. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP) [V]: It is a pleasure I particularly question whether there is really a need to speak on this issue and to discuss education and to formally assess year 2 students, for example. Also, in covid-19. the light of covid, perhaps we should be more willing to The long-term damage to our children’s education trust our teachers and to rely on their ongoing assessment and social skills is something I have been incredibly as to what children in their care need. They are better concerned about. In February, I was able to highlight to placed to assess the ability and the support needed by the Minister, during the debate in the main Chamber on children at a young age than an exam paper is, particularly the roadmap to education, the work of the Northern if the needs of those children at four, five or six years Ireland Education Minister and the Northern Ireland old are more social as opposed to academic. Perhaps Executive in providing funding for summer schools that is something we could look at. Teachers’ knowledge throughout the Province to help children catch up if of what their students need will be more important than needed. This is a devolved matter, but it was such a ever as we seek to recover from the pandemic. Both good scheme that I wanted to give the Minister in teachers and students would benefit from having that Northern Ireland some credit here. trust in their relationship within schools to help support The idea is that there will be funding for schools to children. run summer programmes of two to three weeks for There are lessons to take from online learning, too. children who have fallen behind. Teachers can choose Although some have struggled, others have loved it and to run the classes, or they can liaise with substitute have excelled. They have attended, whereas they might teachers to provide the additional help, which will also 33WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 34WH allow those who depend on substituting to earn their and swiftly when teachers pick up on those issues and money and help to fill the breach with education for problems, and they must have access to professional children. help for that child. We have lost so many, and we cannot It is clear to me that covid has had a massive impact afford to lose a new generation to fear and anxiety. on education and I fully support the need to get children It has long been clear that it is the desire of the back to school as soon as it is safe to do so. Just today, Democratic Unionist party and many others to see that the Minister in Northern Ireland set out a timetable for children are brought safely back to school. Particularly children’s sporting activities to return to normal. I with Northern Ireland’s hugely successful vaccination know that is something the Prime Minister and central programme having vaccinated the most vulnerable with Government in Westminster have been working towards one vaccine, which gives a good level of protection, the as well, as indeed have all the devolved Administrations. opening of schools is in a different position from ever before. Today I received my first vaccination for covid-19. For some parents, home schooling has simply been It was almost painless and I was very pleased to get it. I unworkable due to work issues, internet connectivity or give credit to the staff and volunteers who made the other concerns, and their children need additional support conveyor belt of vaccination so easy to endure, and I to pull them through. I know that sometimes the thank them for it. grandparents feel under incredible pressure. I have met some of them, and they just could not wait to get their I believe that we can open schools and still protect grandchildren back to school, back to normality and our vulnerable, as well as improve educational outcomes back to a routine. I suppose grandparents have reared and address mental health concerns in our young people. their children. As I have often said—this probably That is an absolute priority for me, and I believe it is a applies to you, too, Mr Robertson—it is great being a priority for the Government as well. We must look to grandparent, because at 7 o’clock we can give them allow team games and after-school clubs for music, back, but if they are living with us and schooling with dance and theatre practices—all those normal experiences us, that opportunity is not there. that have been lost to our young people for an entire year. I believe we must do what we can to enhance their The home schooling and internet connectivity opportunities in school and after school to the best of programme that I have referred to was run in some our ability, and we must trust God to restore mentally schools last summer and was incredibly successful, so I the year that the locusts have taken. Education is a thank the Northern Ireland Minister for making it priority; we have all said it, we all know it and we all possible again this summer. It is imperative that we do believe it. Now we need to see that priority being all we can to help children achieve their potential, actioned and also financed appropriately. despite this dreadful past year, and I believe summer schools are a step forward in doing just that. 6.47 pm It is further notable that the Education Minister in Northern Ireland has put aside £5 million especially for Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): It is a schools to determine how they can provide mental pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. health support for pupils or staff as necessary. That I am delighted to be present for what is an extremely could be in the form of outdoor equipment or individual important debate about the future of education, and counselling. I believe that must be replicated UK-wide, particularly the impact of covid. As a member of the as our young people’s mental health, along with that of Education Committee, and following the almost weekly the elderly, has suffered and needs dedicated support. appearance that the Minister makes before us, I feel as though he and I are seeing each other much more than I do not think there has been a debate on covid-19 in we are seeing our respective partners. I am delighted to which we have not spoken about the detrimental mental be with him once again today.I am sure he will hear some health conditions of our children of all ages, even those repeats of the moans and groans at the last meeting of of primary school age, and especially those of secondary the Education Committee regarding this issue. school and college age. I have heard of so many young On the petitions about GCSEs and A-levels, I appreciate children in Northern Ireland who are allowed to return that the Government were in a very tricky situation. I to school and who have been so joyful since they were fully respect that a decision was made more quickly allowed back. On the other hand, I have also had several than some would have the public believe, but the process parents tell me how starting back at school in P1 has was also laid out clearly for pupil, parents and teachers. been a nightmare, with children screaming and hanging I must say that my inbox has not seen a deluge of on to the streetlights because they are unwilling to go to emails, unlike during the algorithm debacle that I am school. Their wee minds are so full of fear and confusion. sure we are all desperate to forget. It is clear that it is not just the little ones who are However,I would like to stress some of my concerns—the suffering. I have also heard parents talk of how their Minister will be aware of these—about the fact that 14-year-olds have anxiety about returning to school. exam papers from exam boards are voluntary and not The routine, which is essential for stability, has been mandatory. I am aware that 100,000 people responded turned around, and they are finding themselves on very to the consultation and that the overwhelming majority shaky ground. Weneed to take steps to steady that ground of students were keen for the tests to be voluntary, but for them and to invest in additional pastoral care, even if it is 41%—the Minister might have quoted the outdoor equipment or even, when safety measures allow, Education Committee, and I apologise if I have got that trips in order to rebuild bonds and confidence. That is figure wrong—the overwhelming majority of teachers absolutely critical. supported the fact that there should be some mandatory I truly believe that only time will tell the impact of testing with the exam papers from exam boards. That is lockdown, and the fear that it has brought, on our something that would have been very helpful to the vulnerable children. Wemust be prepared to help effectively evidence base. 35WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 36WH

[Jonathan Gullis] to staff and students. It has meant that those who are asymptomatic are able to go home and therefore stop Ultimately, the one thing that schools that I am any spread. That is really positive. speaking to are concerned about—I am particularly Another issue is the national tutoring programme. thinking about St Margaret Ward Catholic Academy in The Minister is aware of my concerns about that. Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke, which I Although I absolutely support the aims and fully support visited recently—is that there a very tight window in the Minister—Teach First and the Education Endowment which to get assessments done. The angst comes from Foundation are very good providers and groups that the fact that the Government announcement has come, have my full backing—my concern when we run big, yet it is a month until the guidance will follow. That has central Government-style interventions such as that is caused a lot of strain for teachers as they wonder what whether they really get to the kids who need them. In the exam boards will and will not allow and what they my city, more than 30% of students are eligible for free can and cannot do within this period of time. school meals, and I wonder whether we will reach every I appreciate that the situation with testing is difficult single child who has a right to that tuition and support for the Minister, but if kids are in school and get a and deserves to have it. When I hear that, so far, only positive lateral flow test, even if they then go home and 125,000 out of 1.5 million kids have been reached, that get a negative polymerase chain reaction test, they are raises concerns. not allowed back into school. The school that I mentioned I want to pass on to the Minister the comments of has seen 38 year 11s stay away for 10 days, which will Dominic McKenna, the headteacher at St Margaret ultimately have an impact on the evidence gathering Ward Catholic Academy, about Teach First. He has that will need to take place. emailed it and engaged with it, and he has simply had I also have concerns about grade inflation and the an email back saying, “We’ll get back to you.”I appreciate impact on future years, and I have really pushed the issue that the Minister will not think that is good enough; he of grade suppression with the Education Committee. will want that follow-up to take place. Ultimately, he Ultimately, grade inflation has taken place; we have knows and understands the pressures that headteachers seen it on quite a large scale. The summer of 2020 was are under. On the one occasion that Dominic McKenna more generous than previous years. At A-level, the did hear back when he was asking for maths and proportion of candidates awarded an A* or A went up English tutors, he was told that they were not available an unprecedented 12.9 percentage points from 25.2% in but was asked whether he wanted modern foreign languages. 2019 to 38.1% in 2020. At GCSE, the proportion awarded Those are still important, but if a school is asking for grade 4 and above went up 8.8 percentage points from something and the service is not available, that raises 67.1% to 75.9%. questions about whether the national tutoring programme My worry, as the Chair of the Education Committee is going to work as well as it should. regularly says, is that that grade inflation will end up We are talking about two years. I am sure that hon. being baked into the system. Ultimately, there has to Members will have concerns about the kids who drop come a point where we draw a line in the sand. I hope to out of education in a school setting, maybe going into hear from the Minister, if not today then in the future, colleges or apprenticeships. If they missed out in this that when it comes to the 2020 cohort, the grade inflation academic year, will they get the opportunity to catch up of the past two years will be ring-fenced and blacked in following years in different educational settings? That out, as it were, as an anomaly because we are in a global is my concern with the programme: its aims are noble pandemic—these are unprecedented times—and that and its impact will be big, but will we actually get to we will go back to 2019, pre-pandemic and before the every single child in those areas? summer grade inflation, in order to have a better gauge I will talk about some of my other pet peeves, which of where students are at. the Minister knows I am a fan of doing. If we are really My issue with the suppression is that ultimately there going to sort out education, we need a standardised will be kids—particularly children from deprived national written test in every school for all year groups— backgrounds in Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and from reception to year 11—so that everyone does the Talke—who are outperforming their peers in their schools same. At primary, it would be literacy and numeracy, and their schools’ historical performance. I fear that and at secondary, it would be English, maths and science, teachers, out of fear of having a mass investigation, will so that we would have some actual data on the full ultimately keep grades lower because they do not want impact of loss of learning. That would help schools to other pupils or the wider school to be impacted by understand what they need to do to help their students Ofqual coming in to investigate. I fear that there will be catch up in the long term. I believe that a lot of kids will kids who do not get the grades they deserve, particularly catch up much quicker than we think. Children are those in deprived communities such as the ones I am remarkably resilient, which I know, having been a balding proud to serve, for that very reason. head of year. I have just seen a shot of the back of my I will say this to the Minister: well done. For the head on the screens here, and the balding is quite to admit that it was wrong concerning. I think the kids might have accelerated was a feat of excellence. I thoroughly enjoyed it and that, and the receding hairline that my father has at almost had it printed and put on my wall to celebrate. It 65 but which I have managed to achieve at 31. admitted that it was wrong that the testing would not I believe that kids are remarkably resilient. Being work. Well, it has worked really well. I saw it at first back in a school setting, in a routine, back among their hand, both in the local primary schools that I visited— peers and friends, and with their teachers, whom they Whitfield Valley Primary Academy and St Margaret— trust and respect, will go a long way to rebalancing which had form groups coming down and having the children overall, and mental health support can go tests. It worked really smoothly and has given confidence where it is most needed. There is a huge pot of money in 37WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 38WH the sugar tax. I know that it has been put into school interviews with Talk Radio, and I will say it in this sports, but mental health and CAMHS is where that Westminster Hall debate so that it is a matter of record money should go, particularly in the short-term, but in Hansard: they must resign with immediate effect. perhaps we could look at that in the longer-term, because They have failed the teaching profession. They have there will be some mental health challenges. That does failed the children whom those teachers are serving. not necessarily mean that every children will need one-to-one They have damaged the reputation of the profession support, but that sugar tax money could certainly unlock and led to the impression that teachers somehow went some small group work that could be really positive. missing in this crisis, which could not be further from The standardised test, as I said, is really important. the truth. My hon. Friend the Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley), who is a fine speaker on issues of education, 7 pm talked about sports facilities and the use of the school Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab): It is a pleasure to building. Those buildings are huge community assets, serve with you in the Chair, Mr Robertson, and it is but in the summer the gates are closed, and unless the great to be back in a Westminster Hall debate, even if school is able to rent out any of its space, it goes unused. we are not back in Westminster Hall. These are great That is a crying shame. We should be doing so much opportunities not just to discuss in usually a more more with schools in the local area, using them as part collegial and convivial way some of the big challenges of the summer catch-up programme and beyond, to allow facing our country but, as we are seeing now, for members youth groups and external agencies to save themselves of the public to get their voice heard on issues that the overhead costs from their own buildings and to fund concern them. revenue schemes for those kids. Clearly, lots of water has gone under the bridge since My final plug is for the Challenger Trust, whose chief the petitions reached the threshold for debate. Some of executive officer is Charlie Rigby. I will declare an the issues that I will touch briefly on before focusing my interest: I was a councillor for him in the ward of remarks mainly on exams will be familiar to Members Shipston-on-Stour a long time ago, in 2011. The Challenger right across the House, but I will repeat them none the Trust does amazing work in Gateshead and Birmingham. less for the benefit of the petitioners. Obviously, lots of It costs a 17th of the National Citizen Service and one people were concerned about the safety of schools and seventh of OnSide Youth Zones. Rather than directly the safe opening of schools. We saw in a number of running programmes, the Challenger Trust works with petitions, not least these, a clamour for schools to be local partnerships to support school leaders to choose closed. I have to say, particularly in the light of the lived programmes that have the maximum impact in extra- experience of children and young people during the curricular opportunities. It takes children out of their course of lockdown, closing schools ought to be the schools and local areas to experience the things that very last resort, and they should be the last thing to people like me, who went to private school, were privileged close and the first to reopen. We know that any time out enough to experience. I want every child, in every part of school, let alone the significant time out of school of this country, to be able to access those same extra- that children and young people have had, can have a curricular opportunities. That can be achieved only if detrimental impact in terms of both learning and their we find more sustainable long-term funding solutions. mental health and wellbeing. Although the NCS is an admirable project, it is very Despite the best efforts of schools to keep children much a short-term project for the summer, and it tends learning from home, we know that none the less some to attract, in my opinion, a lot of middle-class and children from certain backgrounds and with certain upper-class children, and does not get into the deprived challenges have faced a much more difficult time in communities that desperately need it. accessing online learning, not least because even as Overall, the petitioners—bless them—have done some schools returned last week the really good work. Obviously, the Government have well was just about scraping in with its own target of getting and truly answered their questions well in advance. All I laptops and devices out to children and young people. can say is that the teaching profession is an amazing Tens of thousands of children are still without the profession—I loved being part of it for eight years—but devices they needed, and hundreds of thousands of it has been reputationally damaged. That is not the children are receiving the devices far later than they fault of teachers; the Department for Education needs should have. to bear some responsibility for the fact that it has not None the less, there have been some concerns about always communicated in a timely fashion, which has safety in the classroom, both from children and young put school leaders in a difficult situation because they people and from staff working in schools. We believe are getting last-minute mixed messages, which causes that the Government really should have done a lot more difficulty with parents. a lot sooner on that front. I am delighted to see mass My biggest criticism, however, is of the National testing being rolled out and I hope that it continues to Education Union, which has been an absolute disgrace be a success in the way that we have heard described in throughout this crisis, to be quite frank. It has been this debate. Indeed, we called for mass testing to be more interested in playing petty party politics than in rolled out late last year, so it is disappointing that it getting schools reopen and actually helping the people took until this point in 2021 for mass testing to be it is meant to serve, who are children and teachers, all of rolled out. whom wanted to be back in school. Wealso think that the Government missed a significant Dr is on £180,000-plus a year. opportunity to vaccinate all school staff during the Kevin Courtney is on over £200,000 a year—well above half-term. President Biden’s Administration are currently what the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom earns. in the process of vaccinating teachers. We were pushing I have said it on my social media, I have said it on radio for that not simply on the grounds of safety but because, 39WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 40WH

[Wes Streeting] Given the extraordinary challenges we have seen and the level of stress and anxiety faced by staff, what we as I think we are already beginning to see, there is still a have had from the education unions during the pandemic challenge of keeping children in school learning. One of has been measured—sometimes robust, but none the the biggest challenges that headteachers had, particularly less measured—reflections of their members’ concerns. when schools returned in September, was staff shortages, I do not think it is helpful to attack them in the way we with teachers going off sick themselves. We think that have just seen. the Government ought to have vaccinated all staff, and I turn to the issue of exams and what needs to be we regret that that has not happened. done. The overarching message is that the Minister and I am afraid to say that we still see too many examples the Department have to learn lessons from the mistakes of schools being short-changed when it comes to safety that they have been making throughout the pandemic. measures. Indeed, schools in my constituency have written First and foremost, we want to avoid a repeat of last to me because the funding that they have shelled out for year’s shambles. The Government’s grading algorithm personal protective equipment and other safety measures was an unmitigated disaster. About 40% of teacher is not being reimbursed by the Department for Education. A-level predictions in England were downgraded by the What does that mean? It means headteachers robbing algorithm. Pupils from working-class backgrounds were Peter to pay Paul—taking funding from one area of the more likely to have seen a bigger downward adjustment school budget and putting it into these extraordinary from the algorithm than those from more affluent safety measures. That is a source of deep regret. backgrounds, and the attainment gap between pupils on free school meals and those who were not got Jonathan Gullis: I agree with the hon. Gentleman significantly higher in terms of the number of A grades that the schools that were in sound financial places received. pre-pandemic have been hit hardest when it comes to There is something to learn from that whole miserable the financial support that they have received, which has experience in terms of how the Secretary of State for been very little. That has meant that a lot of them have Education himself handled it. He put alternatives to the ended up eating into their reserves and their positive algorithm in place at the very last minute and announced bank balances. Does he agree that those schools, which that the system would be switched to a triple lock before will now be judged by Ofsted and could potentially Ofqual had signed it off. Indeed, Ofqual was told about receive an inadequate rating for their finances, need to the plan only on 11 August, two days before results day— be reimbursed, particularly when cleaning costs in some talk about lastminute.com. Through his triple lock, the schools are up to £4,000 a month? Education Secretary said students could use a valid mock, but he did not direct Ofqual to consider what Wes Streeting: I strongly agree with the hon. Gentleman. might constitute a valid mock until results day itself. The fact that these are cross-party concerns should tell Again, that is not just last minute, but after the event. the Minister that there is a problem here that still needs Only after several days of chaos did the Education to be addressed. These are extraordinary, one-off costs. Secretary relent and revert to using unstandardised I want to see every penny of schools’ budgets being centre assessed grades. directed to learning and teaching, and providing the support that pupils need, not least given the disruption Having had that awful experience and put young to their education over the last year. It is regrettable if people and their teachers through real chaos and anxiety headteachers are having to raid budgets that would after A-level results day, the Government have been normally be going towards pupils’ education to fund slow again to plan for this year’s exams, even after last safety measures. I hope the Minister will take that point year’s shambles. It was not until October last year that away and reconsider. the Government announced a three-week delay for exams I want to address the points about exams. Before I do in 2021. We said then that the Government ought to that, I am afraid I have to start disagreeing with the have a plan B in place just in case exams could not take hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis). place—if the spread of the virus was such that exams as He made a number of partisan attacks on the National usual could not happen—but the Government did not Education Union, which was not helpful. We are in the act. Even when the Government cancelled exams in middle of a national crisis and education unions, whether January, they still did not have a plan B. That should they are representing teaching staff, support staff or have been done months before, as we had called for. staff in leadership positions, have a responsibility to There was also the BTEC fiasco. We had just an speak up for the concerns of their members. appalling situation in which, even as the Education Whether it is the National Education Union, the Secretary announced that all schools were to close at Association of School and College Leaders, the National the beginning of January—having just summoned millions Association of Head Teachers, NASUWT, the Voice of children back into school for the day—he caused section of Community, Unite, Unison or the GMB, all additional stress and confusion by insisting that BTEC of whom represent staff in schools, they have tried to exams to be taken that month, and indeed some that convey the concerns of their members in a responsible week, ought to go ahead. way, to which we, as policy makers, should pay attention. That does not mean that we always agree with them; Jonathan Gullis: With regard to BTECs, will the hon. indeed, there have been points during the pandemic Gentleman not agree that even though students were when we have not been on the same page as the National brought in for those exams, they were actually for Education Union and where the unions have not been courses and subjects in which exams are required to on the same page as each other. That is the nature of have been taken in order for them to get the qualification representative trade unions representing the concerns of and therefore give employers the confidence that they their members. have the necessary skills to carry out their duties? It is 41WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 42WH something that they legally have to do. A subject such I wonder, because this is the question that we are as English or maths is obviously a very different thing getting from students, what consideration the Department altogether. and Ofqual gave to allowing private candidates to sit some form of exams. The Minister will understand that Wes Streeting: The problem with the BTEC handling the concern of these students is that a system that relies back in January was that the Department was saying on teacher assessment will be inherently disadvantageous two things at the same time. It was saying that these BTEC or, perhaps, practically impossible if the centre does not exams were going ahead, but then, following an outcry have a relationship with the private candidates. and concerns about whether that would be safe, it said: These are just some of the quotes that I have from “In light of the evolving public health measures”— private candidates expressing their concerns. One told I am quoting from the DFE statement— PoliticsHome: “schools and colleges can continue with the vocational and technical “With the promise of 2021 exams, I was hopeful that I could exams that are due to take place in January, where they judge it redeem myself in my other two A Levels…It’s clear that the right to do so.” government thinks of us as afterthoughts…We’re not just going That just added to the confusion and chaos. The issue to sit back whilst they toy with our futures. We want a solution was not just pupils sitting at home, trying to prepare for that works for everybody.” exams that were taking place literally the next day or in Another student who was downgraded last year said: the coming days; it was also that their teachers were “I decided to put my life on hold for another year and resit my unable to give clear answers. This goes back to the point exams this summer as the university kindly reinstated my offer. I that the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North raised made the decision not to give up on my dreams and not settle for about the invidious position that school leaders and a grade I strongly believed was too low. I put an extreme amount teachers have been put in by the chaos and confusion of effort into revising everyday so that I am able to move on…I and dither and delay that have come out of the DFE. am absolutely devastated for private and resit candidates that They were not clear on what was going on—the exams have been cancelled again this year as they are, in vast majority of cases, not able to get a [teacher-assigned] grade.” communication was poor for them—so the very people to whom students usually look to provide clear answers Will the Minister explain to those students the practical and strong advice and leadership simply were not able challenges of their being able to sit an exam? What to provide it, through no fault of their own. reassurance can he provide that they will be able to sign up with another school, college or assessment centre That left us in the absurd situation in which, according and receive a properly validated grade that reflects their to the Education Secretary, about a third of colleges abilities and efforts in the way that they hope, as students chose to continue with exams in January, while the rest who are resitting? did not. He then backtracked and cancelled BTEC exams in February and March. Again, he eventually got My final point about this year’s exams is about the to the right decision, but why did he not see it coming immense pressure that we are already beginning to see and why could he not take decisive action in a way that inflicted on teachers and headteachers as a result of the told all students and all staff exactly where they stood appeals system that seems to have been outlined in the and what he planned to do about it? guidance. One of my own secondary schools wrote to me quoting the guidance, which says: Let me turn now to some of the other challenges facing “To reduce the number of errors made and, in turn the volume us ahead of assessments this summer. The first is on of appeals, centres will be expected to tell their students the private candidates. There has been concern, throughout evidence on which their grades will be based, before the grades are the changes to examinations, that about 20,000 private submitted to exam boards. This will allow issues associated with, candidates not affiliated with schools and colleges this for example, absence, illness or reasonable adjustments to be year will be disadvantaged. Many students have been identified and resolved before grades are submitted.” told that they have to pay hundreds or even thousands There is something to commend in the approach that of pounds for local exam centres and schools to assess them, students must understand the basis on which they are and schools do not necessarily have the resources to do being judged—of course, that is absolutely right. It is that. Again, more for the benefit of people watching the also absolutely right that mitigating factors ought to be debate than people in the Chamber, I point out that we taken into account, and in a transparent way. However, are not talking about privately educated students; we I think we are all concerned about the implication that are talking about private candidates, who are entering pupils or pushy parents with sharp elbows will be able themselves privately for examinations. Many of these to—picking up on reasonable adjustments in particular— private candidates are students who were not happy effectively demand from teachers and headteachers different with their centre assessed grades last year. They feel that grades from the ones the teacher has judged to be right. they are being denied the opportunity to take exams That puts schools in a really invidious position. and prove that they deserve better grades. They are By the way, this should be regarded as a gentle worried about whether they are even going to get a warning to those who regularly make demands for a centre to take them on. whole series of exams to be scrapped that the grass is I acknowledge that today there has been an not always greener on the other side. This is not to say announcement from the Department that schools will that teacher judgment cannot play a role, but leaving a receive a subsidy for every private candidate who is system significantly to teacher judgment in the way that entered for a qualification. I think that that will go some this has been puts enormous pressure on teachers. My way to incentivising centres to take these students on. I concern is that it will also bake in deeper disadvantage am concerned that, in relation to a very small number because sharp-elbowed middle-class parents will be of subjects but none the less a number of subjects, the in there demanding adjustments to grades, and other fees to enter students for these exams are more than the parents will not. I wonder what the Minister might say £200 that I think the Department is offering. Could the in response to that, in terms of the approach to this Minister speak to that point in particular? year’s exams. 43WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 44WH

[Wes Streeting] I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Tom Hunt) on how he opened the debate. I am sure he Finally,on next year’s exams, if the Education Secretary will join me in recognising the enormous professionalism has not learned from the absolute fiasco last summer and commitment of school staff working in our schools and the absolute fiasco in January, and the completely and with their students throughout the lockdown to last-minute way in which he made a decision about continue education and progress towards assessments, exams in 2021, please, for the love of God, I hope he has whether students were being taught on site or remotely. made some judgments about exams in 2022. We already Today we are debating four petitions and it is worth have students on GCSE, A-level and BTEC courses noting that the context has changed significantly since expecting to sit exams in 2022. There is simply no good they were first submitted. Two of them are about school reason why the Department for Education and Ofqual reopening for the majority of pupils and students. One should not be able to tell those students what exams in requests a delay to full opening until May and the other 2022 will look like. requests that schools in what were previously tier 4 Indeed, Ofqual’s acting chief regulator, Simon Lebus, areas remain closed to the majority of pupils. told the Education Committee last week: Secondly, there are two petitions focusing on exams. “So far as 2022 is concerned, the thinking at the moment is One requests that BTECs be assessed by teacher-predicted about adaptations along the line that had originally been contemplated grades, while the other requests cancellation of the 2021 for this year, when exams were still to go ahead.” GCSE and A-level exams. Finally, I want to outline Furthermore, the Minister for School Standards said: higher education recovery plans, to demonstrate the “We are working now on what decisions we will take for 2022, further work being developed to help pupils and students because we know there has been disruption, but we will have more to recover any lost learning. to say on that later in the year.” My hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich is right that I am afraid that “later in the year” is really not good we need to be cautious about over-generalising about enough. It is really inexplicable—these issues and the choices how children have fared during lockdown. He is also available to exam boards and Ministers about mitigations right to raise the issue of special educational needs and and adjustments to exams are well known and were the impact of covid on the most vulnerable children. debated and discussed ahead of exams potentially taking Special schools, of course, have mostly been open to place in 2021. Why are these decisions not ready to go? pupils during lockdown. We have consistently prioritised Why are we not providing clarity and certainty to schools, specialist settings in our recovery premiums. Both special teachers and students, who are crying out for them? schools and alternative provision will be funded to provide I find it unfathomable that we are not providing clear summer schools and the national tutoring programme. instruction and guidance to students who are on these We have also announced a £42 million package of courses right now,wondering what they should be studying continued support for children with SEND and their for and towards, and what their exams will look like. families during this difficult period. Of course, adjustments are necessary. Looking at the Both my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich and Department’s own data, we estimated that year 10 pupils my hon. Friend the Member for Mansfield (Ben Bradley) have missed one in eight days of GCSE teaching. The raised the issue of pupil mental health. We know that situation may not be quite so severe at A-level because the pandemic is impacting children’s mental health and we always expect there to be a greater degree of independent that, for most pupils, time out of school will have learning, but none the less there will be some degree of limited their social interaction. That is whythe Government learning loss, and we know that the challenges faced by are continuing to prioritise mental health and wellbeing students from the most disadvantaged backgrounds will support for children and staff as they return to school. be greater. The Department has convened a mental health in education Last week, I met school leaders from Newham sixth action group to consider how to support children and forms. Both the principals present were very clear that young people’s mental health as they return to school. scant information is coming from the Government and That will build on the support provided through the that they need certainty now. Uncertainty is piling on Wellbeing for Education Return training programme. the pressure facing pupils and their teachers. The longer The hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) Ministers dither and delay, the harder it will be to make asked about face coverings. Wehave published a summary meaningful adjustments for exams to go ahead in a way of the evidence as schools opened. They are one more that is fair to all pupils. measure in a system of controls designed to reduce the Ministers need to learn from their mistakes and act risk of transmission of the virus. SAGE has advised sooner, rather than later. If the Education Secretary did that face coverings can be effective in reducing transmission not feel battered and bruised from his previous encounters in public and community settings. Their effectiveness with exams, and motivated to do something different, stems mostly from reducing the emission of virus-carrying something earlier and something decisive, there really is particles when worn by an infected person. no hope for him. Although some have been anxious about the return to school from 8 March, returning to face-to-face education Mr Laurence Robertson (in the Chair): Minister, you in schools and colleges is a national priority.The return to will need to leave a couple of minutes for Mr Hunt to school last week was a huge success, as my hon. Friend wind up. the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) celebrated in his remarks. We owe a huge debt of 7.21 pm gratitude to the teachers and support staff who have The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): It is a worked so hard in preparing schools, as well as in pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, providing remote education while most pupils were Mr Robertson. at home. 45WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 46WH

I saw first-hand, on the Friday before the schools I turn to exams. We did not want to cancel exams in opened on 8 March, a school in Portsmouth preparing either 2020 or 2021. We believe that exams are the best for that return—getting children tested, even in the and fairest form of assessment for students to show week before schools opened, in a systematic and organised what they know and what they can do. It was only in the way.On Monday, I visited a primary school in Streatham unprecedented circumstances of the outbreak of covid and saw the joy on the children’s faces as they returned that we had to make the very difficult decision to cancel to school and to being with their friends. exams as part of the wider measures to protect public health. This year, under different circumstances, the There is clear evidence that time out of education can decision that exams could no longer go ahead as planned be detrimental to children’s future prospects and earning was made to ensure fairness among an exam cohort potential, with implications also for the long-term who had received differing amounts of face-to-face productivity of the economy. By February half-term, education, given the further disruption to students’ the Institute for Fiscal Studies reported that the total education in January and the varying need in different loss in face-to-face education time was half a normal parts of the country to self-isolate during the autumn school year for children right across the UK. Despite term. This summer, we will trust teachers’ professional huge efforts across industry and the Government to judgment to award grades based on a range of evidence. ensure that all pupils had appropriate technology for remote teaching, such as the 1.2 million laptops and Weworked on the contingency for exams being cancelled tablets that have been delivered to date to schools, trusts during the autumn term, which is why Ofqual and the and local authorities, pupils from the most disadvantaged DFE were able to consult on the details of the alternative backgrounds were disproportionately affected by the to exams on 15 January,just 11 days after the announcement lack of digital equipment and study space to participate of the lockdown. Ofqual launched a joint consultation effectively. with the DFE on 15 January, with details of how grades would be awarded, the quality assurance approaches Younger pupils have also found it more challenging that we would be taking and details of the appeals to engage in remote education. Schools, teachers and process. We have received more than 100,000 responses parents have worked tirelessly to continue the education to the consultation, over half of which were from of their pupils and students, but there is no substitute students. Students will now receive grades determined for time with a qualified teacher. The negative effects by their teachers, with assessments covering what they are also likely to extend beyond educational attainment, were taught, not what they missed. Teachers have a with NHS research suggesting that one in six young good understanding of their students’ performance and people may now have a mental health problem, up from how they compare with other students this year and in one in nine in 2017. previous years. The vaccination roll-out has been successful: 24 million We have given teachers the flexibility to use a range of people in this country have been vaccinated and, as evidence, including through the use of optional questions Sam Freedman has pointed out, in countries of over by exam boards, mock exams, non-exam assessment for 10 million people we are the world’s leader by a margin coursework and in-class tests. My hon. Friends the in having such a successful roll-out. That success means Members for Ipswich and for Stoke-on-Trent North that infections and hospitalisations are falling, paving asked for the exam material to be a mandatory part of the way for the safe and gradual lifting of restrictions. the range of evidence that teachers will use to support We are also heading into the spring, when we would the grade that they submit. We asked in the consultation expect the prevalence of respiratory diseases to fall. whether such materials should be compulsory, and the optionality option was the overwhelming response. As I Although restrictions on attendance in schools have said last week to the Select Committee, we did not want been removed, other restrictions remain in place to to introduce a mini-exam by the back door, having just ensure that transmission rates remain low across the cancelled exams because they were not a fair way to country. It is hugely important, of course, that we all assess people’s qualifications. continue to obey those restrictions. In addition, schools will continue to implement protective measures as set We want teachers to feel supported while making out in the system of controls. Regular testing of children their decisions and will provide guidance to enable them further reduces the risk of transmission in schools. to make assessments fairly and consistently. There will be internal and external quality assurance processes to In relation to remaining open in areas previously identify errors and make consistent judgments. Tosupport categorised as tier 4, as mentioned in one of the petitions, students who believe that their final grade is wrong, I note that we are seeing significant decreases in cases there will be a right to appeal. We also want to be fair to across almost all parts of the country and all age all students, regardless of the type of qualification they groups. In the absence of significant regional disparity, are taking. the Government decided to ease restrictions at the same time across the whole of England. Due to the current, We announced on 25 February the arrangements this relatively uniform spread of the virus across the country, summer for awarding vocational and technical qualifications the four steps out of lockdown set out in the road map that are similar to GCSEs and A-levels and that use are designed to apply to all regions. progression to further or higher education. External exams for those qualifications are not viable; instead, Wehave been clear,however,that the return is dependent results will be awarded through similar arrangements to on the data against the four tests, as set out in the road those for GCSEs and A-levels.There will be teacher-assessed map. The road map therefore gives indicative “no earlier grades, and many BTECs will therefore receive teacher- than” dates for the steps, which are five weeks apart. assessed grades as well. Functional skills qualifications Those dates are wholly contingent on the data and are are unlike GCSEs and VTQs in their qualification and subject to change if those four tests are not met. assessment structure. They are taken by a wide range of 47WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 48WH

[Nick Gibb] Education recovery is a firm focus of the Government, with the appointment of the education recovery pupils and students, including adults. Some VTQ courses commissioner and the announcement of increased funding are much smaller than those for GCSE and can be to enable a variety of activities to help with refreshing taken on demand when the students are ready.Therefore, the academic and social lives of pupils and students. all efforts should be made to allow pupils and students School and college staff have been asked rapidly to to take an assessment in line with public health measures become IT experts,health and safety experts,test facilitators or remotely. Where that is not possible, teacher-assessed and examiners this year. I would like to finish by once grades will be made available for awarding. again thanking them wholeheartedly for all their work, their commitment and their professionalism. Where students are taking vocational qualifications to enter employment directly and where technical competence needs to be demonstrated, exams and 7.37 pm assessments will continue in line with public health measures. That is so that students can demonstrate the Tom Hunt: It is still a pleasure to serve under your necessary occupational or professional standard and chairmanship, Mr Robertson, as it was at the start. I thank start work in a safe way. the Minister for his response, which was comprehensive and certainly addressed many of the points that I The hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting) raised. There is a problem with some petitions in particular, raised the issue of private candidates. We are determined in that there has been a lot of water under the bridge, to ensure that private candidates can receive a grade this but a lot of hon. Members dwelled on the petition on year. We are capping the fees that centres can charge exams and assessment. I hope that many of their concerns and subsidising the extra costs that schools will face in have been alleviated. assembling the evidence to support a grade. The Joint I appreciate that there was a consultation and that a Council for Qualifications will shortly publish a list of decision was made that tests should not be mandatory, schools and colleges that will provide support to private but I hope that means that any children who could candidates in being awarded a qualification. benefit from a test do not feel that they are being shut Werecognise that extended school and college restrictions out. If a child and/or their parents go to a teacher and have had a substantial impact on children and young say, “Look, we really do think that our child could people’s education, and we are committed to helping benefit from having a test,” I hope that the teacher will pupils to make up any education lost as a result of the be responsive and listen. I understand why it is not pandemic. No pupil’s long-term prospects should suffer compulsory, but I hope there will be flexibility. as a consequence of what has happened over the last I hope that teachers exercise flexibility as well and are year. In January 2021, the Prime Minister committed to sensitive to the fact that not all children are the same, working with parents, teachers and schools to develop a not all of them learn in the same way and some benefit long-term plan to support schools and pupils to make more than others from exams. I am encouraged by a lot up that lost education. As part of this, in February we of what I have heard from the Minister, and from the appointed Sir Kevan Collins as the education recovery recovery commissioner when he came to the Education commissioner, to advise on the approach to education Committee, about giving teachers flexibility and respecting recovery and the development of a long-term plan to that they often know best for their children and that the help pupils make up lost education. individual child needs to be at the heart of all this. As an immediate step, we have made available funding In terms of the teaching profession, the issues of of £1.7 billion to support education recovery.In June 2020, recruitment and retention, which were issues before the we announced, as part of that £1.7 billion, a £1 billion pandemic, are obviously even greater now. I have been catch-up package, including a national tutoring programme encouraged by some of the stats I have seen. The and a catch-up premium for this academic year. In number of applications has gone up. In many senses we February, we committed a further £702 million to fund could say that the behaviour of certain unions has not summer schools, expand our tutoring programme and helped, but in other respects we have often seen teachers fund a recovery premium for the next academic year. acting heroically, in terms of the work they have put in That £702 million is also part of the £1.7 billion. Over to get their schools ready.Certainly, schools and teachers this Parliament, as we continue to learn and understand in my own constituency have worked to provide support what more is needed to help students to recover lost beyond the academic. I mentioned Copleston High education, we will ensure that support is delivered in a School in east Ipswich, which has set up a community way that works for young people and for the sector. pop-up shop to help children at the school, and some of The return to school on 8 March was, rightly, the first the work that has been done is exceptional. In some step in our road map to recovery and it has been senses, I think the way that people perceive the teaching successfully delivered, thanks to education staff across profession has gone up, but those issues around teacher the country, with primary attendance high and secondary recruitment and retention are obviously very important school attendance rising steadily throughout the week. and need to be looked at. We will continue to be led by the data when taking each I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been to be step in the road map, and there are contingencies in an education Minister over the last year. No Government place if any actions need to be taken in the event of have been in this position before, and of course it is very extremely high prevalence of coronavirus over the coming easy to criticise. It is very easy to say, “Well, in hindsight, months.GCSEs, AS-levels and A-levels have been cancelled you should have done this and you should have done for summer 2021, along with many BTECs and other that.” That is not to say that the Government have not VTQs, with students instead being awarded grades based made mistakes. It is not to say that, on occasion, they on assessment by their teachers. could have been better with the comms. It is just to say 49WH Covid-19: Impact on Education15 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Impact on Education 50WH that I think it is important that we recognise the huge we think we can do it. We’ve got all the resources. If challenge of what it must be to be an education Minister we can get the vaccine, we think we can vaccinate during this pandemic. all teaching staff in Suffolk within two weeks.” I was When I talk to parents and teachers, there have been open to working with that school. What was really occasions when we have had difficult conversations. interesting is that this all ended up in the Mail on They have criticised the Government, and they have Sunday, and there were some quotes in there from the criticised various things that have happened—January NEU, totally dismissing it. being one case, the algorithm being another—but I have Here is an example of people in the education sector to say that in the last couple of weeks I have had two wanting to roll their sleeves up and say, “Right, let’s do conversations with two headteachers who have been this,” and just being shot down by the NEU, which incredibly complimentary about many of the things effectively said that all teaching staff need both doses. that have happened. That was my interpretation of what it was saying. If it When we talk about the laptops getting out, bearing had had its way, there would not be any schools open in mind the scale of the operational logistics, sadly there until every single member of the teaching staff had had will be examples when not all that equipment got to two doses—how long would that take? where it needed to be, but I would also say that more There has been anxiety from teachers in my constituency often than not it has, and I have spoken to headteachers about the fact that they have not been prioritised for the in my constituency who have been incredibly grateful vaccine. They have made it clear to me that, heading up for that, including the headteacher of Stoke High School, to 8 March, that was one of their key concerns, but I which probably has the most deprived catchment in think that with each day and each week that goes by, Ipswich. He has had hundreds of laptops delivered, and given the remarkable progress that we are making which have benefited children at that school. That is as a country in the number of people we are vaccinating, something that I also think needs to be recognised. those concerns are being alleviated. As we vaccinate I know that there is a bit of a debate about the more people in their 50s, and soon those in their 40s, National Education Union, and I have to say that I most teaching staff who would have been more vulnerable probably sympathise with the interpretation of that to the virus have been vaccinated as part of the general particular issue by my hon. Friend the Member for process anyway. I think that is to be recognised, as is the Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis). This has been fact that we are doing so much better than almost any an incredibly difficult situation for pupils, for teachers, other country in the world. for schools and for the Government, and I think that at On the whole, we need consistency and clarity going various times the National Education Union could have forward, particularly on next year’s assessments, as the acted in a much more constructive way, but unfortunately hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting) mentioned. it has not. Because of that, I think it has made a We should provide clarity and consistency as early as difficult situation even more difficult, and I think it has possible. I agree with what my hon. Friend the Member been motivated by political point-scoring far too much. for Stoke-on-Trent North said about having a national I sometimes question whether schools would have been test to get a much better understanding of the extent to open at all over the last year if it had had its way. They which there has been learning loss, and for each child, probably would have been closed, and they would still because we cannot make assumptions about what their be closed now. particular experience has been. When it comes to teachers being prioritised for a We have a huge challenge ahead of us, but I am vaccine, I have to say that I was sympathetic to the confident that the Government are very aware of that. I arguments, particularly before it became clear what a hope that the petitioners who signed these petitions, huge success our vaccination programme is. I thought though perhaps not looking at this debate and thinking— we just needed to get the schools open. If doing that helps the situation, let us go down that route. Publicly, 7.45 pm I have sympathy for that view. I had one school in my Motion lapsed, and sitting adjourned without Question constituency approach me to say, “Look, logistically, put (Standing Order No. 10(14)).

1WS Written Statements 15 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 2WS

Written Statements Table 1: Recommended Rates agreed by the Secretary of State for Defence Element 2020 Rates 2021 Rates Monday 15 March 2021 Working Capital Servicing 1.22% 1.33% Rate (% on positive Working Capital DEFENCE employed) Working Capital Servicing 0.61% 0.65% Rate (% on negative Single-source Defence Contracts Working Capital employed) SSRO Funding 0.052% 0.057% The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): Adjustment I am today announcing that I have set the baseline profit rate for single-source defence contracts at 8.31%, [HCWS846] in line with the rate recommended by the Single Source Regulations Office (SSRO). The baseline profit rate is calculated on a three-year rolling average of underlying profit rates. The underlying profit rate decreased from HOME DEPARTMENT 8.23% for 2020-21 to 8.19% for 2021-22.1 have accepted the methodology used by the SSRO to calculate these Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and figures. Immigration In addition to the main rate, I am announcing an additional baseline profit rate of 0.057%. This will only apply to qualifying defence contracts where: The Secretary of State for the Home Department i. the contract is between Secretary of State and a (Priti Patel): I am pleased to announce Mr David Neal’s company incorporated under the Companies Act that is appointment as the Independent Chief Inspector of wholly owned by the UK Government; and Borders and Immigration. The appointment has been ii. both parties to the contract agree that it should made in accordance with the UK Borders Act 2007 and apply. in line with the Governance Code on Public Appointments, The intention is that this rate can be used to set following a fair and open competition. The appointment contract profit rates at a rate that does not result in such will be for a fixed term of three years. Mr Neal will take companies making a profit, should it not be appropriate up post on 22 March 2021. for them to do so. Application of the five further steps David Neal was appointed by HM The Queen as the set out in section 17 of the Defence Reform Act 2014 Provost Marshal (Army) and commanded the 1st Military may result in a rate that is slightly different from zero on Police Brigade from 2016 until 2019. He led the Royal individual contracts. Military Police through major reforms including the Setting this additional rate diverges from the SSRO’s Service Justice System Review, and was responsible for recommendation. The SSRO has welcomed the intention Operation Northmoor, the Royal Military Police to bring contracts into the regime where it is appropriate investigation into allegations of illegal killings by British that the contractor does not make a profit. This will troops in Afghanistan. enable the pricing and transparency provisions of the [HCWS848] regulatory framework to be applied to both the contract and relevant subcontracts, which provisions are intended to assist the Government to obtain value for money and INTERNATIONAL TRADE contractors to be paid fair and reasonable prices. I am also announcing new capital servicing rates and an SSRO funding adjustment as recommended by the Future Trading Relationship with Australia SSRO, which can be found at Table 1 below. These rates have been published in the London Gazette, as required by the Defence Reform Act 2014. The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth Truss): The fourth round of Free Trade Agreement All of these new rates will come into effect from (FTA) negotiations with Australia took place between 1 April 2021. Monday 22 February and Friday 5 March. During the two weeks, negotiators held 51 negotiation sessions, Table 1: Recommended Rates agreed by the Secretary of State for Defence covering 27 different chapter areas. In total, we have Element 2020 Rates 2021 Rates had 170 sessions since launching negotiations in July Baseline Profit Rate (BPR) 8.22% 8.31% 2020. (% on contract cost) Both the negotiation teams shared text and additional Baseline Profit Rate to N/A 0.057% proposals before the round, including on digital, labour apply to contracts between the Secretary of State and and technical barriers to trade, allowing negotiators to a company wholly owned enhance their substantive conversations. From this, by the UK Government negotiators were able to build mutual understanding, and where both parties and make further progress consolidating texts in most agree (% on contract cost) chapter areas.Focused engagement has enabled negotiators Fixed Capital Servicing 3.66% 3.27% to provisionally identify shared ambition and remaining Rate (% on Fixed Capital employed) points of divergence to work through ahead of the next round. 3WS Written Statements 15 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 4WS

Good progress has been made in areas including TRANSPORT customs, rules of origin, and professional services. The majority of text has been agreed in chapters on good National Bus Strategy: England (Outside London) regulatory practice, as well as small to medium-sized enterprises. Development in the latter reflects the commitment of both Australia and the UK to ensuring The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps): businesses of all sizes can benefit from the FTA. Today the Government have published “Bus Back Better”, the long-term national bus strategy for England outside Some text was agreed in cross-border trade in services. London. Negotiators were also able to hold technical discussions on mobility, international maritime transport services, Our strategy will deliver better bus services for passengers express delivery services and domestic regulation. across England, through ambitious and far-reaching reform of how services are planned and delivered. The Meanwhile, progress was also made on procurement Prime Minister’s announcement of transformational and digital, with parts of the text agreed. In addition, funding—a combined £5 billion for buses, cycling there were productive discussions on the innovation and walking—in February last year demonstrated the chapter. Government’s commitment to buses and active travel. Discussions were taken forward on investment, where Following publication in June 2020 of “Gear Change: we hope to include provisions which further enhance A bold vision for cycling and walking”, today’spublication our strong bilateral relationship, building on the UK’s explains how buses will be transformed. position as the second largest direct investor in Australia Buses are our most used form of public transport and the second largest recipient of Australian foreign but, even before covid-19, they faced challenges. There direct investment in 2019. are pockets of good bus performance outside London, but far too many places have fallen behind. Turning this The Australia and UK negotiation teams have also around is central to this Government’s objectives of planned an intensive period of intersessional discussions reaching net-zero and levelling up. in the coming weeks to continue this momentum ahead of a fifth round of talks. Covid-19 has had a significant impact on buses, as with all transport. It gives urgency to the strategy, but Below is a summary list of the areas discussed in the also an opportunity.Dealing with the emergency fostered round, which continued to take place by video conference: greater co-operation between bus operators and local Anti-corruption authorities, which we can build on. We know that Competition wherever and whenever bus patronage grows, there are Customs and trade facilitation bus operators and local government working together to deliver improvements for passengers. We want this Development for all passengers, and the strategy sets out that we want Digital/e-commerce every local transport authority and bus operator in Environment and clean growth England to be in a statutory enhanced partnership or a Financial services franchising arrangement, using existing powers in the Good regulatory practice Bus Services Act 2017. We will make £25 million available Innovation straightaway to develop these. Intellectual property The developing partnerships will be asked to produce Investment robust and ambitious bus service improvement plans by Labour the end of October 2021. We will expect the plans to set Legal and institutional provisions out a road map to better services for passengers and communities, urban and rural, and be fully informed by Government procurement local needs. Rules of origin Sanitary and phytosanitary measures The strategy also sets out our ambitious road map to a zero-emission bus fleet, including a commitment that Services, including movement of natural persons, professional services, international maritime transport services and delivery we will consult on ending the sale of new diesel buses. services. This will bring buses into line with other vehicles—we have already announced ending the sale of new petrol Small and medium-sized enterprises and diesel cars by 2030. State-to-state dispute settlement Technical barriers to trade Disabled people rely on bus services more than most and the strategy confirms our continuing commitment Telecommunications to supporting an inclusive transport system. One of the Trade and women’s economic empowerment strategy’s aims is to improve equality of opportunity, Trade in goods particularly for older and disabled people. We want to Transparency see improvement plans that drive improvement in Any deal the UK Government agree will be fair and accessibility for all. Disabled people should have the balanced and in the best interests of the whole of the confidence to travel when and where they want to, and UK. As we will in all negotiations, we remain committed our plans ensure that bus services play their part in to upholding our high environmental, labour, product making that possible. and food safety, and animal welfare standards in our Alongside this, we have also announced today that trade agreement with Australia, as well as protecting 17 rural and suburban communities will see an additional the national health service (NHS). investment of £20 million from the Government’s rural [HCWS845] mobility fund to trial innovative on-demand services 5WS Written Statements 15 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 6WS that are able to get closer to where people live and I am placing a copy of the national bus strategy in the at a time convenient for them—another example of the Libraries of both Houses. Government’s work to level-up transport infrastructure [HCWS847] across the country.

1P Petitions 15 MARCH 2021 Petitions 2P

Observations from The Minister of State, Department Petition for Transport (Chris Heaton-Harris): We are currently awaiting the completion of the Monday 15 March 2021 integrated rail plan for the north and midlands (IRP) to help develop a comprehensive strategy for the East Coast OBSERVATIONS Mainline (ECML). The IRP will look at how best to deliver Phase 2b, Northern Powerhouse Rail and other Network Rail programmes, and consider how the schemes can work together alongside wider transport TRANSPORT investment for the north and midlands to ensure people Reopening of Leamside rail line see the benefits of better services quicker. Once published, this will inform the Department’s planning for the long- The petition of residents of the constituency of Washington term future of the ECML, including options concerning and Sunderland West, the prospective reopening of the Leamside Line. Declares that petitioners support the reopening of the Leamside rail line in full as the town of Washington The Government announced in January 2020 that needs a rail link; further that the rail line will bring they have pledged £500 million for the restoring your economic and connectivity benefits for the North East; railway fund to start reopening lines and stations, and further that it will bring infrastructure benefits for reconnecting smaller communities, regenerating local the East Coast Main Line. economies and improving access to jobs, homes and education. It includes an ideas fund for those schemes The petitioners therefore request that the House of that are in an early stage of development and need to Commons urge the Government to ensure that the explore the options for solving a transport problem. forthcoming Integrated Rail Plan allows for the re-opening of the Leamside Line in full and the re-introduction of I thank the residents of Washington and Sunderland rail services to Washington; to recognise the support West for expressing their support for this proposal, as of a forthcoming Restoring Your Railways bid to promote local support is an important factor in getting rail this; and calls on the Secretary of State for Transport to schemes off the ground. The Department for Transport consider this proposal. will consider the bid made to the third round of the ideas fund and announce outcomes in Summer 2021. And the petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Mrs Sharon Hodgson, Official Report, 3 March 2021; Department officials will continue their engagement Vol. 690, c. 356 .] with local stakeholders as this work progresses. [P002650]

1MC Ministerial Corrections15 MARCH 2021 Ministerial Corrections 2MC

establish at least three new gender identity clinics over Ministerial Correction 2021, with the first of these opened by the Chelsea and Westminster NHS Foundation Trust in July. Monday 15 March 2021 [Official Report, 8 March 2021, Vol. 690, c. 50WH.] Letter of correction from the Minister for Equalities, the hon. Member for Saffron Walden (Kemi Badenoch). An error has been identified in my response to the WOMEN AND EQUALITIES debate. The correct response should have been: LGBT Conversion Therapy The Minister for Equalities (Kemi Badenoch): I am The following is an extract from the Westminster Hall also aware that waiting times for gender identity services debate on LGBT conversion therapy on 8 March 2021. are currently very long. We are taking meaningful actions to address the historical problems that have resulted in The Minister for Equalities (Kemi Badenoch): I am long waiting times, and I am pleased that we have also aware that waiting times for gender identity services established three new gender identity clinics throughout are currently very long. We are taking meaningful actions 2020 and 2021, with the first of these opened by the to address the historical problems that have resulted Chelsea and Westminster NHS Foundation Trust in in long waiting times, and I am pleased that we will July 2020.

ORAL ANSWERS

Monday 15 March 2021

Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 1 DEFENCE—continued Armed Forces Personnel ...... 6 Military Housing: Annington Homes ...... 1 Army Personnel ...... 12 Review of Security, Defence, Development Commonwealth Veterans ...... 15 and Foreign Policy ...... 15 Covid-19: NHS Support ...... 9 Service Justice System ...... 13 Covid-19: Vaccine Roll-out ...... 11 Service Medal Awards...... 14 Cyber Warfare ...... 3 Submarine Dismantling Programme ...... 13 Defence Estate Optimisation Programme...... 2 Support for Veterans...... 7 Mental Health Support for Veterans...... 12 Topical Questions ...... 16 Military Aid to Civilian Authorities ...... 16 Veterans Overseas ...... 6 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Monday 15 March 2021

Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 1WS INTERNATIONAL TRADE ...... 2WS Single-source Defence Contracts ...... 1WS Future Trading Relationship with Australia...... 2WS

HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 2WS TRANSPORT ...... 4WS Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and National Bus Strategy: England (Outside Immigration...... 2WS London)...... 4WS PETITION

Monday 15 March 2021

Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT ...... 1P Reopening of Leamside rail line...... 1P MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Monday 15 March 2021

Col. No. WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 1MC LGBT Conversion Therapy ...... 1MC No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Monday 22 March 2021

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 691 Monday No. 190 15 March 2021

CONTENTS

Monday 15 March 2021

List of Government and Principal Officers of the House

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Defence

Policing and Prevention of Violence against Women [Col. 25] Statement—(Priti Patel)

National Bus Strategy: England [Col. 48] Statement—(Grant Shapps)

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill [Col. 59] Motion for Second Reading —(Priti Patel)

Royal Assent to Acts passed [Col. 132]

UK Renewables: Critical Minerals [Col. 133] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Vaccine Passports [Col. 1WH] Covid-19: Impact on Education [Col. 25WH] E-petition debates

Written Statements [Col. 1WS]

Petition [Col. 1P] Observations

Ministerial Correction [Col. 1MC]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]