British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly Tionól Parlaiminteach na Breataine agus na hÉireann Forty-Fourth Plenary Session 13 - 15 May 2012, Dublin MEMBERSHIP OF THE BRITISH-IRISH PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY Steering Committee Co-Chairmen Mr Laurence ROBERTSON MP Mr Joe McHUGH TD Vice-Chairmen Rt Hon Paul MURPHY MP Mr Séamus KIRK TD Mr Robert WALTER MP Mr Pádraig MacLOCHLAINN TD Devolved Assemblies and Crown Dependencies Dr Alasdair McDONNELL MLA/Mr John McCALLISTER MLA Mr John SCOTT MSP, Mr David MELDING AM, Mr Steven Rodan SHK Members in Attendance Oireachtas Members British Members Mr Joe McHUGH TD, Co-Chair Mr Laurence ROBERTSON MP Senator Paschal MOONEY Rt Hon Paul MURPHY MP Mr Mattie McGRATH TD Mr Robert WALTER MP Mr Séamus KIRK TD Baroness SMITH of BASILDON (Assoc) Mr Pádraig MacLOCHLAINN TD Lord BEW Mr Luke Ming FLANAGAN TD Baroness BLOOD MBE Senator Jim WALSH Viscount BRIDGEMAN Mr Arthur SPRING TD Lord GORDON of STRATHBLANE (Assoc) Mr Jack WALL TD Mr Conor BURNS MP Ms Ann PHELAN TD Mr Paul FARRELLY MP (Associate) Ms Ciara CONWAY TD Mr Jim DOBBIN MP Mr Martin HEYDON TD Lord DUBS Mr Patrick O'DONOVAN TD Mr Paul FLYNN MP Mr Noel COONAN TD Mr Stephen LLOYD MP Mr Joe O'REILLY TD Baroness HARRIS of RICHMOND Senator Terry BRENNAN (Assoc) Mr Kris HOPKINS MP Senator Paul COGHLAN Rt Hon Lord MAWHINNEY Mr Frank FEIGHAN TD Mr John ROBERTSON MP Mr Séan CONLAN TD Lord ROGAN Senator Imelda HENRY Mr Chris RUANE MP Mr John Paul PHELAN TD Mr Jim SHERIDAN MP Senator Cáit KEANE Lord GERMAN (Assoc) Senator John CROWN Mr Gavin WILLIAMSON MP Senator Jimmy HARTE Welsh Assembly Members Mr David MELDING AM Mr Darren MILLER AM Mr William POWELL AM Mr Ken SKATES AM Ms Bethan JENKINS AM Members in Attendance Continued Scottish Parliament Members Mr John SCOTT MSP Mr Michael McMAHON MSP Ms Mary SCANLON MSP Mr Willie COFFEY MSP Ms Alison McINNES MSP Northern Ireland Assembly Members Mr David McCLARTY MLA Mr John McCALLISTER MLA Mr Jim WELLS MLA Mrs Dolores KELLY, MLA Mr Barry McELDUFF, MLA Tynwald Member The Hon Stephen RODAN (TYN) States of Jersey Member Connétable Daniel Joseph MURPHY (SJ) States of Guernsey Member No representative present following elections Others Attending as Guest Speakers Senator Paddy Burke, Cathaoirleach of Seanad Éireann Mr Leo Varadkar TD, Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport An Taoiseach, Enda Kenny TD Dr James Reilly TD, Minister for Health Mr Brian Hayes TD, Minister of State, Department of Finance Ms Darina Allen, Ballymaloe Cookery School Mr Sean O’Driscoll, CEO, Glen Dimplex Ms Sally Storey, GlaxoSmithKline Mr Eoin Tonge, Group Development Director, Greencore Dr Maurice Manning, Chairman, Advisory Committee on Commemorations Officials Joint Clerks to the Assembly Clerks of the Devolved Institutions Ms Sinead Quinn Mr Steven Bell Dr Robin James Mr Robert Lloyd-Williams Mr Peter Hall Ms Pamela Carson Mr Roger Phillips Mr Stephen Herbert Oireachtas BIPA Policy Adviser Media Adviser to the Assembly Ms Émer Deane Mr Ronan Farren Irish Secretariat Official Reporters Ms Jullee Clarke Ms Susan Byrne Ms Gráinne Ní Neill Mr Cai Evans Ms Franca Ghelfi Ms Janet Foster Ms Paula Cowen Mr Tony Minichiello Ms Maria Edgeworth Mr Patrick O’Hanlon Mr David Gorman Ms Clare Treanor British Secretariat Mrs Amanda Healy Sir Michael Davies KCB Committee Clerks to the Assembly Committee A: Sovereign Matters Committee B: European Affairs Mr Frank Power Mr Eliot Wilson Mr Marek Kubala Mr Frank Power Committee C: Economic Committee D: Environmental & Social Ms Jullee Clarke Mr Nick Besly Ms Judith Boyce Ms Jullee Clarke Monday 14 May 2012 The Assembly met at 9.37 a.m. INTRODUCTORY COMMENTS BY CO-CHAIRMAN (MR JOE McHUGH TD) The Co-Chairman (Mr Joe McHugh TD): The Assembly is in public session. I will begin with some brief announcements. First, I remind everyone to turn off their mobile phones. I have been informed privately that this rule is very well respected in the Upper House, so I ask my colleagues in the Lower House to take note. Secondly, as well as being subject to the normal audio recording, today and tomorrow‘s sessions will be transmitted live on the new Oireachtas TV channel. It is also streamlined on the Oireachtas website and BIPA website. Thirdly, and importantly, I ask Members to stand up and clearly state their name and legislature when they are invited to contribute from the Floor. That is required for the purposes not only of the technical demands but of the media, who are very interested in having your name and legislature and will not be able to see it in some places. The recording system in the Chamber is designed for Members to stand. So, when you indicate to speak, you will have to stand as well. Your voice will not be picked up clearly by the microphone if you speak while seated. As a final reminder, the proceedings of the body do not attract parliamentary privilege. That is very important to note, and it applies to the Senators, who would normally have parliamentary privilege in this House. NEW CO-CHAIRMAN The Co-Chairman (Mr Joe McHugh TD): I now take great pleasure in formally congratulating our colleague Laurence Robertson MP on his appointment as new British Co-Chair to the Assembly. I invite Laurence to join me on the podium. I acknowledge and express my appreciation for the contribution of Laurence‘s predecessor, Lord Cope of Berkeley. I know that I can speak on behalf of all Members in wishing John well with his current and future endeavours. He was always a pleasure to work with and will remain a friend of this Assembly. I hand you over to Laurence. INTRODUCTORY REMARKS BY CO-CHAIRMAN (MR LAURENCE ROBERTSON MP) The Co-Chairman (Mr Laurence Robertson MP): Thank you very much, Joe. It might be useful to explain to Members why we have to keep moving sideways. There is only one microphone here, so that is why we are going to have to shuffle around a bit. It is a great pleasure to be here in this building I start by thanking Joe and all his team for putting together this plenary session. It is always a great pleasure to come here. This is my first time as Co-Chairman. I am fairly new to the Assembly generally, but already, in the short time I have been on it, I have seen its value in the way that we can discuss various issues and continue to cement what is already an extremely strong and great relationship between the United Kingdom, the other places represented here and Ireland. It is a great pleasure to be here. I thank everybody who has put so much work into bringing this session together. As we start to prepare for the next one, which we will host in Glasgow, I know how much work goes into it. So, thank you very much indeed, Joe, for everything. I pay tribute to John Cope, who I have known for many years and worked with for a short while on this Assembly. John and I share a deep interest in horse racing, which many people in Ireland will also share. It has been a pleasure working with John, and I wish him the very best. Joe, thank you very much for having us here. NEW MEMBERS The Co-Chairman (Mr Laurence Robertson MP): It is my duty to welcome new Members of the Assembly. Those appointed to the Assembly as full Members are Stephen Lloyd MP, Baroness Harris of Richmond, Luke Ming Flanagan TD, Barry McElduff MLA, Ken Skates AM, Darren Millar AM, Connétable Daniel Murphy. Those appointed as associate Members are Dolores Kelly MLA, Baroness Smith of Basildon, Lord Gordon of Strathblane, Paul Farrelly MP and Lord German. Paul Farrelly‘s team, Stoke City, sent my team, Bolton Wanderers, down from the Premiership yesterday, but he is still a good friend. The Co-Chairman (Mr Joe McHugh TD): Thank you, Laurence. Before we discuss the proposed programme of business, I will say a few words about the Chamber that you are in. This Upper House, the Seanad, was an art gallery during the residency of the Fitzgeralds. It is significant that we are meeting here. It is historic as it is the first time that the body is meeting here, but also because it is the second Chamber, the Chamber of the Upper House of the Oireachtas. In 1922, a constitutional committee met in the Shelbourne Hotel, which some of you had the opportunity to stay in last night, to draft a new constitution. There was unanimity on the committee on the need for a Senate for two reasons. First, because of the perceived advantage of having a second House to review and reflect more broadly on legislation passing through the lower House. Secondly, and importantly, at the time of the establishment of the Irish Free State, there had been understandings given to the leaders of southern unionism before the signing of the treaty that a Senate would be established in which there would be assured representation. Ultimately, the first Senate included seven peers, a dowager, a countess, five baronets and a number of knights. Sixteen of the 20 nominees to the Senate made by the then head of Government, W T Cosgrave, were unionists, and the first Cathaoirleach of the Seanad, who sat in this chair, was Lord Glenavy, James Campbell. So, its membership comprised 36 Catholics, 20 Protestants, three Quakers and one Jew. The walls of the Chamber have heard many and varied viewpoints over the years from the broad swathe of opinion that has been represented here since the first upper Chamber was established.