·1· · · · · · ·VERBATIM PROCEEDINGS ·2 ·3 ·4 ·5· · · · NEW HAVEN CITY PLAN COMMISSION ·6· · · · · · · · REGULAR MEETING ·7 ·8 ·9· · · · · · · · ·JUNE 19, 2019 10 11· · · · · · · NEW HAVEN CITY HALL 12· ·165 CHURCH STREET, MEETING ROOMS 1 AND 2 13· · · · ·NEW HAVEN, CONNECTICUT 06510 14 15 16 17 18 19· · · · · JESSICA NOBLE, CSR NO. 402 20 21 22 23 24 25 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·(HEARING COMMENCED AT 6:24 P.M.) ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Let us start by ·3· ·having the members up here introduce themselves. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I'm Giovanni Zinn.· I'm the City ·5· ·Engineer. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Elias Estabrook, Alternate ·7· ·Commissioner. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. DiADAMO:· Kevin DiAdamo, Alternate ·9· ·Commissioner. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. PAGAN:· Ernest Pagan, Commissioner. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Leslie Radcliffe, 12· ·Commissioner. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Ed Mattison, chair. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Adam Marchand, Alder for the 15· ·25th Ward and Commissioner. 16· · · · · · · · · JENNA MONTESANO:· Jenna Montesano, Deputy 17· ·Director of Zoning. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Stacey Davis, City Planner. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Aicha Woods, Director of City 20· ·Plan. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Do we have to 22· ·do the microphones? 23· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Well, we've been recording. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Mr. Chair, you'll note that 25· ·we actually have court reporter with us today helping us ·1· ·with our meeting. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So I am -- this is ·3· ·the regular meeting of the New Haven City Plan Commission. ·4· ·We have an agenda, which is posted outside.· At 7:00 we will ·5· ·stop doing our regular agenda, and we will do public ·6· ·hearings as required by our notice. ·7· · · · · · · · · Anybody who wants to speak at the public ·8· ·meeting when we take public comment, please sign up on the ·9· ·table that is right in back of this wall here. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Can we specify that that's for 11· ·the public hearing only. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· That's for the public 13· ·hearing we're talking about.· In order to get -- it is our 14· ·general rule that in order to get through this multipage 15· ·thing, we can't take comments from the public on every 16· ·single thing because we would never go home and get our 17· ·dinner. 18· · · · · · · · · So shall we begin? 19· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sure.· Mr. Chair, we have 20· ·one member of -- sorry. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, yes.· Oh, yes. 22· ·An important thing.· The acoustics in this room are 23· ·terrible, and they are made infinitely worse when people 24· ·talk on their cell phones.· So put your cell phone on buzz; 25· ·and if it rings, take it outside, or else we'll all shut up ·1· ·and we'll just listen to you. ·2· · · · · · · · · Okay.· So the first item. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Mr. Chair, we're wondering ·4· ·if you'll entertain hearing the LCI referrals first in the ·5· ·interest of allowing that staff member to come forward and ·6· ·present, and then we can move on from there. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes.· We'll get rid ·8· ·of a whole bunch of them very quickly. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So there's only two.· The 10· ·first item is 1558-20.· This is 80 and 88 Barclay Street. 11· ·I'll allow my colleague to present. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· Thank you, Commissioner. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRMAN MATTIS:· Introduce yourself, 14· ·please. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· I'm Evan Trachten from LCI, 16· ·Mr. Chair and Commissioners.· Thank you. 17· · · · · · · · · The first item I have is Barclay Street for 18· ·tonight.· And this was a sliver lot LDA we were proposing 19· ·for off-street parking.· This section of Barclay Street, as 20· ·well as Adeline, is very narrow, and there's been 21· ·unfortunately some illegal parking going on. 22· · · · · · · · · This disposition will allow much more 23· ·off-street parking.· We have a commitment from the 24· ·applicants to absolutely park off street so it's not a 25· ·narrow dangerous area anymore. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Was this the one we heard ·3· ·previously and tabled or something? ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· No.· This is brand new, I ·5· ·believe. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· So Barclay -- ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I misspoke. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· About three months ago, the ·9· ·commission heard Barclay Street and the commission expressed 10· ·their -- 11· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· This is the one that had all the 12· ·parking on the sidewalk. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Yes.· So I think Evan can speak 14· ·to how maybe LCI has worked with the proposed -- 15· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· Right.· So we have the 16· ·applicant's representative present.· We have reached out to 17· ·the applicants based on some of the feedback about, you 18· ·know, respecting the ordinance as written regarding parking, 19· ·blocking sidewalks, and there's not a clear delineation in 20· ·this block of where the sidewalk is or isn't.· There's 21· ·several large garage overhead doors. 22· · · · · · · · · So the customary past practice was parking 23· ·right in front of these doors, which we don't want.· And by 24· ·creating this off-street parking, it should absolutely end 25· ·that behavior, which we think is clearly going to better the ·1· ·community.· And so that's why we're here tonight advocating ·2· ·for your support of this item. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Do either of ·4· ·you want to say anything? ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. MYRIAN RODRIGUEZ:· I'm Myrian Rodriguez ·6· ·and that's Elisa.· She's representing Roberto Rodriguez on ·7· ·the property.· And we've had it for over -- how long? ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· 1994. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. MYRIAN RODRIGUEZ:· Yeah.· And we always 10· ·worked -- unfortunately, we had -- you know, there's 11· ·situations with the parking of people across and people 12· ·thinking it's ours.· But we really, really believe in the 13· ·stability of that property and our business to try to -- you 14· ·know, we're going to offer used cars for people who 15· ·sometimes can't afford them and can't afford, you know, 16· ·whatever, but we want to -- 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· But you understand 18· ·what he said about what you're going to do and you agree 19· ·you're going to do it? 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MYRIAN RODRIGUEZ:· Yes, I do, 21· ·absolutely. 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So you will not use 23· ·your -- you will not use the streets and the sidewalks? 24· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA:· Oh, no.· That's why we need 25· ·the -- yeah, exactly. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay, good. ·2· · · · · · · · · Any questions? ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I do. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Go ahead. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I was the one that raised ·6· ·the question.· I live in the neighborhood, so I'm familiar ·7· ·with the area.· And there are a number of different ·8· ·businesses there, so like you said, it is hard to tell, you ·9· ·know, who -- what vehicles belong to what. 10· · · · · · · · · There -- the lots that are there, the ones 11· ·that you're talking about as far as the sliver lots to use 12· ·for your commercial use and for the parking of your 13· ·vehicles, the ones that you're either working on or going to 14· ·be working on so that they won't be parked on the street, 15· ·those are the empty lots.· Do you have any lots there that 16· ·have cars in them already. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· Yeah.· The front lot 18· ·does and behind.· And those will be the cars that are going 19· ·to be for sale. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· It's a working garage 22· ·right now.· It's not open.· That's what we're trying to do 23· ·right now, is reopen it.· And, I mean, you've got a tire 24· ·shop that's right there, and they do the tires outside on 25· ·the street. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· And that's part of what the ·2· ·problem is, because, again, there's lots that are there. ·3· ·There's, I think, two lots that have cars that have trees ·4· ·growing out of them and bushes and we don't know -- you ·5· ·don't know who owns what property so that it's hard to ·6· ·delineate who to go to, to have, you know, a certain issue ·7· ·addressed. ·8· · · · · · · · · And as I said, I live there, so I see it. ·9· ·And I did notice that it has been -- 10· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· Cleaning up. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- a lot cleaner and a lot 12· ·easier to maneuver.· And I'm appreciative of that if those 13· ·are your efforts.· But my question, again -- now, the lots 14· ·that have cars parked in them that are not being used or 15· ·moved or repaired on, they're pretty much, like, being 16· ·stored.· Are those your lots? 17· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· Well, yeah.· We're 475 18· ·Ella Grasso Boulevard, 150 Adeline Street, and 84 Barclay. 19· ·That's our lots.· The lot that we're asking for is the one 20· ·that's right next to 84, which is empty and fenced in by the 21· ·city. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· Again, that's fine 23· ·for taking the cars that are currently on the street; but as 24· ·your business, you know, hopefully progresses, you know, 25· ·you'll have a lot more cars, a lot more business. ·1· · · · · · · · · What I'm asking is:· The lots that currently ·2· ·have cars sitting in there that are not going anywhere, ·3· ·they're rusted, they're old -- ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· They're being junked. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· They're junk, yeah. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· Yeah.· They're being ·7· ·junked as of right now. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Are those your vehicles? ·9· ·And will they eventually be moved, allowing you more space 10· ·to park currently-worked-on vehicles -- 11· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· Yes. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- as opposed to those cars 13· ·just sitting there forever and ever and ever? 14· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· Well, we've been 15· ·closed for a long time, so we're just starting to -- if you 16· ·go by there now, you'll see a lot of cleaning up being done. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I think what I'll probably 18· ·do is just take a walk by -- 19· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· You'll see a lot of 20· ·cleaning up. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- and know exactly what 22· ·we're talking about. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· There was a big old 24· ·boat in the back that's not there anymore.· We chopped it 25· ·up, got rid of it. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I just want to get a clear ·2· ·understanding of where the property is because there is a ·3· ·lot of property over there. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We know.· I went over ·5· ·there and looked myself. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· There are two properties -- ·7· ·right? -- being disposed of? ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· There's an interior lot, Mr. ·9· ·Zinn, as well as the corner lot of Barclay and Adeline. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· The interior lot shows a lot of 11· ·parked cars.· Are those, I assume, not the city's cars? 12· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· No, no.· Those are 13· ·ours. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· So you're already using the 15· ·property, and now you're paying for it. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· Well, it was our 17· ·property at one point in time.· I don't know what happened, 18· ·but the city -- if you look at the map, you're going to see 19· ·four 80s Barclay Street.· Don't ask me how there's four 80s, 20· ·but there are.· And it kind of, like, messed up everything. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Ladies and gentlemen, 22· ·this is the smallest item on our list.· We've got 25 of 23· ·them. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. ELISA RODRIGUEZ:· I'm just trying to 25· ·explain. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mr. Chair, I think we need ·2· ·to -- in deference to the communities, there are no small ·3· ·issues when it comes to quality of life -- ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- in our neighborhoods. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I was not suggesting ·7· ·that it should be ignored.· I was suggesting that afterwards ·8· ·we can have a discussion of it.· Possibly we can get the ·9· ·alders to call everybody together and work it out.· There is 10· ·some problem here, and it should be resolved, but not in 11· ·this room at this time. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· We're good. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I'll just note for the record 15· ·that I have spoke with Alder Evelyn Rodriguez about this 16· ·issue, and she has expressed her support for the disposition 17· ·and has worked with the applicant on the issues that the 18· ·residents and Commissioner Radcliff raised.· So I have some 19· ·confidence that with her continued attention, she will help 20· ·to make sure that the situation remains under control. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So with that said, 22· ·can I have a -- 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mr. Chair -- 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- I move the item. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Oh, Mr. Chair, you may want ·3· ·to -- pardon me.· You may want to designate an alternate ·4· ·as -- ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Who's going to vote? ·6· ·Oh, that's right.· Whose turn is it? ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. PAGAN:· It's a switch-off. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· It's your turn. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah.· It's a switch-off 10· ·system so . . . 11· · · · · · · · · MR. DiADAMO:· I think it's my turn. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Kevin was not here in May. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· So now we can 14· ·get the vote. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you, Mr. Chair. 16· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You're welcome. 17· · · · · · · · · Okay.· Is there a second? 18· · · · · · · · · MR. PAGAN:· Second. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All in favor? 20· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You have another one. 22· ·I hope it's the last one. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· Mr. Chair, this one is at 649 24· ·Howard Ave. and 651.· We are proposing to dispose of those 25· ·two parcels to Cornell Scott Hill Health, who is developing ·1· ·a wellness center. ·2· · · · · · · · · So we are proposing to sell these parcels to ·3· ·Cornell Scott, who has funding in hand for a beautiful ·4· ·wellness center, 52 beds.· It will be approximately 30,000 ·5· ·square feet.· I believe they may have parking relieve before ·6· ·BZA and other items.· And this is only for a land ·7· ·disposition agreement.· It will come back to you for ·8· ·additional review as required.· So it's just for LDA for old ·9· ·office building that's the shuttered former hill development 10· ·site and an adjacent parcel, which currently provides access 11· ·to the rear of Cornell Scott's parcels on Cedar Street. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Did they already come to us for 13· ·site plan review, or am I thinking of something else? 14· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I think for preliminary. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Oh, okay.· Maybe that's what it 16· ·is. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Just for the record, this is 18· ·1558-21, just so the record has that listed. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· We do have a letter of 21· ·support from the alder and, from what I've been told, 22· ·tremendous community support.· This is moving the Grant 23· ·Street Partnership, which is currently in the building at 24· ·48-62 Grant Street.· It's just moving it to this new modern 25· ·location. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I have questions.· I have a ·2· ·question.· And the last thing that you said, it does have ·3· ·tremendous community support, and I'm questioning -- I'm ·4· ·questioning where you got that information from. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· From the alder as well as the ·6· ·staff I work with down here that this -- this has been no ·7· ·secret, what the plan has been.· Hill Health has been ·8· ·actively out talking about this in the community, the letter ·9· ·of support from the alder as evidence of the support.· And 10· ·so it's going to ultimately go to the Board of Alders where, 11· ·again, there will be members of the community and elected 12· ·officials weighing in on it.· So we are here tonight because 13· ·not only does the city support it, but we feel the community 14· ·absolutely supports it.· It's an existing program.· It's 15· ·just moving from Grant Street to this location. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yes.· And that is the 17· ·concern that has been raised by perhaps a different group of 18· ·people that you're talking to that talked to me. 19· · · · · · · · · Is there anyone here from Cornell that 20· ·might -- 21· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· There may be someone in the 22· ·room from Cornell.· I'm not sure. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Anybody here from 24· ·Cornell Scott Health Center?· No. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· The questions and concerns ·1· ·that I am hearing are from prominent leaders of the ·2· ·community management team that have expressed that they ·3· ·heard nothing about the move of the program from Grant ·4· ·Street to Cedar Street and that this land disposition -- ·5· ·although on paper it sounds like a good thing, you know, ·6· ·we're going to turn it over to the Cornell Hill Scott that ·7· ·has an established program.· However, you're talking about ·8· ·the program is -- it's a little bit -- it's a little bit ·9· ·more than what it reads on paper as well as another item 10· ·that's going to come before us is a little bit more than 11· ·what it reads on paper and what it was noticed for in public 12· ·hearings. 13· · · · · · · · · And a lot of individuals in the community 14· ·did not know that that's what the property was going to be 15· ·used for and that's what the program itself is going to be. 16· ·They're aware of the program on Grant Street and are pretty 17· ·much happy with the program on Grant Street.· I think 18· ·because of its isolation, if you might say, you know, "out 19· ·of sight/out of mind" kind of thing.· But when you're 20· ·talking about moving a program that deals with certain 21· ·issues into a more popular -- popular, if that's the word. 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Populated. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- populated area, then it's 24· ·a different set of concerns.· And the community not being -- 25· ·when I say "the community," I'm talking about members of the ·1· ·management team because I haven't talked to everybody and I ·2· ·haven't talked to the alders.· The alders may know, but that ·3· ·doesn't mean that the individuals that attend management ·4· ·teams know if the alders don't bring it to them, which, as ·5· ·far as I've been informed, the alders have not.· So I wasn't ·6· ·even aware that the alders knew. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· Now, when you speak of the ·8· ·management teams, are you speaking Hill North or Hill South ·9· ·or both? 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Hill North and Hill South. 11· ·Hill North and Hill South. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· Because our -- 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I have a communications 14· ·person in Hill South who will let you know when she's heard 15· ·about something because she shares it with everyone, and she 16· ·has advised me that she didn't know anything about this. 17· ·And as such, she has not made the management team aware of 18· ·it.· And it has not been on the agenda and has not come 19· ·before them. 20· · · · · · · · · The alders may know, may have talked to some 21· ·people, again.· You know, so I'm expressing not just as a 22· ·commissioner who is from that area, but also a commissioner 23· ·that represents that area. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I actually somewhat 25· ·second what you say because although Grant Street ·1· ·Partnership provides an extremely valuable service in that ·2· ·area, it is also quite controversial.· There are many people ·3· ·whose great desire is to have it out of there.· So the ·4· ·question of whether it should move to a more permanent ·5· ·building -- the center is going to fall down one of these ·6· ·days, so they have to get out of there. ·7· · · · · · · · · But I do think that it's not reasonable to ·8· ·sort of just brush aside.· I mean, maybe it would make sense ·9· ·for us to put this off for a month and you guys go and meet 10· ·with the community management teams and come back with their 11· ·approval, and then I'm sure we'll approve it. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Although it's not up to a 13· ·community management team -- we understand that -- to 14· ·approve -- you know, to approve or deny, you know, approval. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We'll hear -- we'll 16· ·know what they think. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But the expression of 18· ·whether or not a community is actually supportive is always 19· ·helpful.· And, again, the concern is not necessarily a "not 20· ·in my backyard" because there's a lot of things in our 21· ·backyard, you know, right now. 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Right. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But this particular area 24· ·that's surrounded by schools, libraries, day-care centers -- 25· ·yes, it is zoned for medical use, you know, but there's ·1· ·certain types of issues that are treated under medical use. ·2· · · · · · · · · I'm being real vague, you know, but I think ·3· ·everybody pretty much catches my drift, you know, and a ·4· ·residential facility.· You know, some neighborhoods, ·5· ·I think -- besides knowing that there's space available and ·6· ·that is an as-of-right use, we need to actually know what ·7· ·does that particular neighborhood offer for those persons ·8· ·that are being treated.· Is that neighborhood -- that area ·9· ·going to offer solutions, or is it going to offer more 10· ·problems?· So there's a number of things that need to be 11· ·addressed. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Well, our usual 13· ·practice in such situations is just to ask the proponent 14· ·meet with an appropriate neighborhood group and report back 15· ·on the result.· We're not giving anybody any vetoes over 16· ·what we do, but we just like to know what people have to 17· ·say. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· And management teams are 19· ·pretty much, like, from the summer; but if, you know, that's 20· ·something that you would like some assistance in pulling 21· ·some folks together to talk about it, I'd be happy to. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· We certainly know who to 23· ·contact.· We believed that conversations had been had, but 24· ·certainly we want to come back to this commission and make 25· ·sure everybody is 100 percent on board.· So I thank you. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Would you like to ·2· ·make a motion? ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mr. Chair -- ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- I don't know what the ·6· ·motion can be. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Table. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Table. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· It's not something -- 10· ·we don't have to deny it or approve it? 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· No, no, no.· Just 12· ·table it. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mr. Chair, I move that we 14· ·table this item. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 16· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Thank you. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Mr. Chair, we move back to 19· ·site plan reviews, which is the top of the agenda; but I 20· ·think in the interest of the very full room, we might move 21· ·to 1558-03, 924 Grand Avenue. 22· · · · · · · · · Does that suit you, Mr. Chair. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, yes, yes. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Okay.· So that's the next 25· ·item, 1558-03, which is 924 Grand Avenue.· This is an ·1· ·application for site plan review for construction of a ·2· ·one-story addition on the existing Youth Continuum. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I will leave it to the ·5· ·applicant. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Typically, in general, I think ·7· ·how we can do it is you inform the commission that we've ·8· ·received several letters from the public, because I think ·9· ·that will determine whether or not the applicant might 10· ·decide to present tonight.· So we'll pass these out to you. 11· · · · · · · · · I know that the -- actually, we don't 12· ·mind -- we'll wait to share the renderings because the 13· ·commission will have to vote on whether or not to open a 14· ·public hearing. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· These are separate things? 16· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· They're separate things. 17· ·Take one and pass it down. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I don't want to see -- 19· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· That's not the renderings. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We have to decide whether 21· ·we're doing this before we receive -- 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· What is it that we're 23· ·receiving? 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· These are -- if you take one 25· ·and pass them down, these are the letters that have been ·1· ·submitted by various members of the community requesting a ·2· ·public hearing. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Requesting a public hearing. ·4· ·Okay. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I believe that the applicant has ·6· ·letters as well. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Yeah.· We also have letters ·8· ·we would love to submit. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· This would be a good time to 10· ·submit those as well.· Okay.· Those letters are in here. 11· ·Okay, great. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Sorry.· We could have made 13· ·that clear. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· That's okay. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· That's a lot more than a 16· ·letter. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· It's a lot of letters. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So what you'll have in front 19· ·of you are -- some are letters requesting a public hearing. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Is this different than -- 21· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· These are all going to be 22· ·different, yeah. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· And then letters from the public 24· ·in support of the project. 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Now, I think we ·1· ·should start -- before we discuss where we're going to go ·2· ·with this, let's hear from you about what you're proposing ·3· ·and what we need to know. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Mr. Chairman -- ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· -- Attorney Margorie Shansky ·7· ·from the beautiful Quinnipiac River Historic District. I ·8· ·represent Youth Continuum.· And with me this evening is ·9· ·Mr. Paul Kosowsky, who is the chief executive officer of 10· ·Youth Continuum, who have been on Grand Avenue for 25 years 11· ·and in New Haven for almost 50 years.· And also with me is 12· ·Sam Greenberg, who is the cofounder of Y2Y.· And we're here 13· ·for site plan review. 14· · · · · · · · · Now, I'm prepared to discuss with the 15· ·commission the zoning underpinnings, the determination that 16· ·was made by the city back in February, recognizing the 17· ·proposed use as a rooming house under the definitions of 18· ·both the zoning ordinance and the general code of ordinances 19· ·in the city and that was then bolstered with new staff that 20· ·came on in the interim and we have a full house in City Plan 21· ·as to the determination of this use as a rooming house. 22· · · · · · · · · But I think -- you know, and you can ask me 23· ·questions about that or I can expound on that, but I would 24· ·like to perhaps have Sam Greenberg talk to you about the 25· ·public engagement process because contrary to perhaps the ·1· ·episode that we've just heard about, there has been a robust ·2· ·public engagement process going on for 18 months. ·3· · · · · · · · · So may I let Sam talk about that? ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Sure. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Great, thank you. ·6· · · · · · · · · My name is Sam Greenberg.· I've been, as ·7· ·Marjorie said, spearheading the Y2Y New Haven expansion ·8· ·effort.· And as Marjorie said before, the commission sort of ·9· ·deliberates on a request for public hearing.· I'd love to 10· ·just share a little bit of the context about Y2Y New Haven's 11· ·public process.· We appreciate that a site plan review is 12· ·purely a technical review and really look forward to 13· ·hopefully the opportunity to share plans that we're really 14· ·proud of with you, but I did want to speak about our public 15· ·process for two reasons. 16· · · · · · · · · The first is because it has played, like, a 17· ·huge role, a vital role, in shaping the site plan and design 18· ·that we do hope to share with you today.· But, second, 19· ·because our community process has been a point of pride for 20· ·us.· And given that the requests for public hearing speaks 21· ·to the importance of public input, we wanted to make sure to 22· ·provide sufficient context about the community process that 23· ·we've undertaken and our belief that our community process 24· ·has been open, honest, transparent, and above and beyond. 25· · · · · · · · · In your packets, you can see -- in the ·1· ·binders, you can see documentation of the 217 meetings that ·2· ·we, the Youth Continuum and Y2Y team, have had with over 155 ·3· ·members of the Wooster Square, downtown, and Fair Haven ·4· ·community regarding the Y2Y New Haven project actually since ·5· ·July of 2017, so for almost two years. ·6· · · · · · · · · This has ranged from one-on-one meetings to ·7· ·small group meetings, from site visits to house parties, to ·8· ·attending Wooster Square community events like Sunday Soup, ·9· ·the Cherry Blossom Festival, tabling at the Wooster Square 10· ·farmers market, to presenting to the downtown Wooster Square 11· ·community management team and the Fair Haven community 12· ·management teams, to holding the open listening session that 13· ·was attended by over 60 members of the community. 14· · · · · · · · · We have responded promptly to every single 15· ·member of the community who has reached out to offer a 16· ·meeting or an opportunity to talk.· We have met community 17· ·members early in the morning, late at night, and on the 18· ·weekends.· We are incredibly grateful for the energy and 19· ·time and input that the community -- that community members 20· ·have put into this process with us, whether they have shared 21· ·their excitement, concerns, or some of both about the 22· ·proposal. 23· · · · · · · · · As I said, the site plan and design that we 24· ·are really excited for the opportunity to be able to share 25· ·has been completely shaped by the public process, and we are ·1· ·incredibly proud of that. ·2· · · · · · · · · In the meeting documentation that I ·3· ·referenced earlier, you can also see a summary of how each ·4· ·conversation that we've had has shaped our thinking and how ·5· ·we have responded to each and every concern that came up ·6· ·during those conversations. ·7· · · · · · · · · Based on that feedback, we have made ·8· ·material changes, which Duo Dickinson and Turner Brooks, our ·9· ·architects, hope to be able to share in more detail in just 10· ·a few minutes.· But I did want to highlight a couple of 11· ·material enhancements that have emerged from community 12· ·input. 13· · · · · · · · · We listened to concern from the community 14· ·about young people waiting in line outside 924 Grand Ave. by 15· ·adding a second-floor porch space and by recessing all the 16· ·sidewalk entrances from the existing sidewalk line.· We will 17· ·have plenty of space inside to ensure that no one will have 18· ·to wait outside to get in before entering the program and 19· ·that young people can get fresh air without hanging out on 20· ·the street. 21· · · · · · · · · We listened to concern about young people 22· ·sleeping in the basement and reimagined our design.· Now, by 23· ·adding a second floor, our sleeping pods will be upstairs 24· ·with lots of natural light.· We heard the importance from 25· ·the community that this project play a part in increasing ·1· ·the walkability and vibrancy of Grand Ave. ·2· · · · · · · · · As a result, we reorganized our first floor ·3· ·to incorporate a ground-floor commercial space, something ·4· ·like a coffee shop, that would provide an amenity to the ·5· ·community and jobs to our young people. ·6· · · · · · · · · We are also incorporating new security ·7· ·lighting, a bike rack, and a much more graceful facade.· We ·8· ·have been incredibly excited by the response to the Y2Y New ·9· ·Haven concept from our neighbors, many of whom were eager to 10· ·make their support known to you.· In the binders, you can 11· ·see letters, signatures, testimony, and statements from 12· ·members of the community who are eager to see this project 13· ·move forward as soon as possible. 14· · · · · · · · · I would be really glad to answer any 15· ·questions that the commission has regarding our public 16· ·process or provide further detail and really appreciate the 17· ·opportunity to share a little bit more context with you. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Anything else 19· ·you want to talk about this? 20· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I think generally our practice 21· ·has been we read the letters, which the majority of them 22· ·that you're receiving right now were submitted right before 23· ·the meeting. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes.· We have a 25· ·large -- about 20 letters asking for a public hearing ·1· ·essentially. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· And then 121 letters of support, ·3· ·just for the record. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes.· We have 121 ·5· ·letters. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Mr. Chairman, if I may say -- ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· -- that I've reviewed, I ·9· ·think, all -- if Stacey sent me all of the letters, I 10· ·reviewed all of the letters.· Most of them simply ask for a 11· ·public hearing without a basis or a specific concern that 12· ·would dictate against your consideration of the site plan 13· ·application. 14· · · · · · · · · Mr. Smart and Ms. Berman have requested a 15· ·public hearing, but since July of last year through June of 16· ·this year, Mr. Greenberg -- 17· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Call me Sam if you want. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Sam has reached out to 19· ·Mr. Smart nine times, inviting communication, discourse, 20· ·meeting, and has had no response. 21· · · · · · · · · Ms. Berman, who has requested a public 22· ·hearing, had her most recent meeting with Sam last Friday 23· ·and at that time did not disclose that she was requesting a 24· ·public hearing; but you'll see that was not the first time 25· ·that she conversed with him. ·1· · · · · · · · · So the point is that there has been public ·2· ·engagement.· There has been meaningful public engagement on ·3· ·a well-established program in the city of New Haven that now ·4· ·seeks to add an element which, under your regulations and ·5· ·city ordinance, is a rooming house use.· If you want me to ·6· ·expound on that further, I will.· If you have questions ·7· ·about that, let's discuss them.· If you want Mr. Kosowsky to ·8· ·talk about Youth Continuum, we're here to do that or if you ·9· ·want to hear from Mr. Dickinson and Mr. Brooks, but we -- 10· ·this application is positioned for your consideration. 11· · · · · · · · · It has a use that has been recognized by the 12· ·City Plan Department by a determination of its propriety. 13· ·It meets the definition in the New Haven zoning ordinance, 14· ·and it complies with the standards and requirements of a 15· ·site plan review. 16· · · · · · · · · On those grounds and with a City Plan report 17· ·that recommends approval, it would be our position that 18· ·we're equipped and eligible to go forward. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Let's talk a bit 20· ·about our process when we get requests for public hearing. 21· ·Of course, we have the power to go forward with such a thing 22· ·if we wish or if we think it's appropriate. 23· · · · · · · · · I am -- our usual reason why we do it is 24· ·because of the absence of all this both back-and-forth kind 25· ·of conversations about it.· Obviously, this has -- I've been ·1· ·to meetings.· I know what it's -- this has been discussed ·2· ·plenty. ·3· · · · · · · · · I have some feeling that it would be ·4· ·difficult that people -- if we had a public hearing, it ·5· ·would be extremely difficult for people to stick to the ·6· ·topic.· They would regard this as a point of decision ·7· ·whether we were going to have this program or not. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Correct. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We are not authorized 10· ·to have that discussion. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Correct. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Our responsibility 13· ·with a site plan review is to ensure that the requirements 14· ·of the ordinances and the zoning having to do with this 15· ·application are -- you know, everything that that's supposed 16· ·to do, they did. 17· · · · · · · · · If there was -- so having people come 18· ·forward and talk about the fact that they don't like this 19· ·idea is not in our purview.· We don't have that power.· So 20· ·in a way, it feels something like an empty gesture.· We 21· ·could have the hearing. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Thank you. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· People would tell us 24· ·how they're overloaded with social agencies on Grand Avenue, 25· ·which is unfortunately true, but we don't have the power, ·1· ·even if we believed everything that they said.· We don't ·2· ·have the power to say, "All you social agencies get lost." ·3· ·We can't do that. ·4· · · · · · · · · So, I mean, I say this because I want to ask ·5· ·my fellow commissioners what they think about just the ·6· ·upfront issue of whether we should put this off and have a ·7· ·public hearing.· And as I say, that's what my feeling is, ·8· ·but I am eager to hear what other people have to think. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I'm going to let someone 10· ·else speak before I. 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Who wants to 12· ·start? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I have a question, Mr. Chair. 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Go ahead. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Some of the folks who have 16· ·asked for public hearing have asserted that this would be a 17· ·change of use, that, you know, there's a difference between 18· ·a rooming house and a shelter, and so they're disputing as 19· ·to whether or not -- 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We have authority. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- we have the authority or 22· ·that this is before the right body.· And so I wanted to hear 23· ·what staff had to say about that. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Very good.· Thank 25· ·you. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It's an important technical ·2· ·question. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Thank you.· I think ·4· ·this is a very important question.· I raised it with the ·5· ·staff, and they have expressed the view that it is ·6· ·appropriate to do -- to go forward with this process, but I ·7· ·think it would be valuable to have them explain why they ·8· ·think that. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Great. 10· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· And I will let you, 11· ·Ms. Shansky, respond also. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· We had multiple meetings 13· ·with the applicant, and they presented a narrative -- they 14· ·presented a narrative about their business and their use to 15· ·the City Plan staff.· And this conversation is -- started 16· ·happening long before I was here.· My understanding is that 17· ·my predecessor, Tom Talbot, also felt that it was a rooming 18· ·house.· That was part of the presentation that came before 19· ·us. 20· · · · · · · · · We listened to what they had to say about 21· ·what definition was a best fit for the applicant and came to 22· ·a consensus among staff that the definition per the zoning 23· ·code -- the rooming house definition was the best fit, 24· ·understanding that it's different than sort of the regular 25· ·plain meaning of words in the English language, but you have ·1· ·to fit it into a definition somewhere; and we were compelled ·2· ·by the applicant's interpretation of the zoning code and ·3· ·felt as a group that it fairly, you know, fell within the ·4· ·definition of rooming house based on their use. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Anybody else ·6· ·want to say anything about this? ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I just -- I support what Jenna ·8· ·said.· We did carefully consider it.· I would like to let ·9· ·Attorney Shansky just explain a little bit about the program 10· ·and the pathway and how that fits into the -- 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· -- zoning code definition. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Why is it a rooming 14· ·house? 15· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· I'll let my programmatic 16· ·people talk about that element of it, but I will say that 17· ·included in your application package -- and I'm guessing in 18· ·your binder too -- 19· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Yeah. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· -- is a copy of the narrative 21· ·that we provided to the city, and there are certain sort of 22· ·benchmark elements of it.· Because this is a limited 23· ·population, the access to having a pod, to having use of the 24· ·rooming facility is done by prearrangement, reservation if 25· ·you will.· So it has the indicia of the definition that is ·1· ·in this regulation.· And with that, operationally -- ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Yeah.· So I agree with ·3· ·everything that Marjorie said and the staff said.· I think ·4· ·from our perspective, as Marjorie said, guests of the ·5· ·program will prearrange their stays.· They will be 60-day ·6· ·stays working in partnership with case managers. ·7· · · · · · · · · These are young people who are already part ·8· ·of Youth Continuum's program offerings.· And I think it also ·9· ·feels important to talk a little bit about just why this is 10· ·the most appropriate program, which is that for young people 11· ·who are experiencing homelessness, they actually don't stay 12· ·in shelters.· That is why this program, we feel, needs to 13· ·exist. 14· · · · · · · · · And a really common outcome for young 15· ·people -- it actually is a plurality of positive outcomes -- 16· ·in a program like this is to reunite with a family member or 17· ·somebody who can support them and that that kind of concept 18· ·of sort of a temporary rooming house is -- does describe -- 19· ·especially when we looked closely at the definition, does 20· ·describe that outcome and that program operation. 21· · · · · · · · · If you want to add anything -- 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So one difference 23· ·you're telling us is that it's not a line in which people 24· ·get in line and they either get a bed, if there is room, or 25· ·not? ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· No.· It's definitely by ·2· ·prearrangement.· I call it reservation.· It's for a definite ·3· ·term, and it is programmatically aligned with other services ·4· ·at Youth Continuum. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· And part of the concept, as ·6· ·well, is that at the beginning of a guest's stay, they go ·7· ·through a stay agreement, just like any other guest would, ·8· ·and talk about their obligations, rights, and ·9· ·responsibilities, and that that's part of the concept that 10· ·we also see as being part of a rooming house. 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· What are the minimum and 13· ·maximum lengths of stay for guests at your rooming house? 14· · · · · · · · · MR. KOSOWSKY:· So there is no minimum per 15· ·se.· In general, the expectation is that the maximum would 16· ·be -- expectation is 60 days with a maximum 30-day 17· ·extension. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So someone could be there for 19· ·a night or two, or they could be there for 60 -- 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· To 90 days. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- or maybe 90? 22· · · · · · · · · MR. KOSOWSKY:· Presumably, if someone is 23· ·looking to be reunified with their family and go back home 24· ·or is able to identify an apartment in the community that 25· ·they can move into, then, yes, it could be shorter, ·1· ·absolutely. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Other questions? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. DiADAMO:· My only comment is I'm in ·4· ·agreement with the chair's comments about moving forward ·5· ·with the site plan review.· I'm just flipping through the ·6· ·book.· There's numerous letters of support from neighbors, ·7· ·and we have letters in opposition.· I don't think it would ·8· ·be productive if we went to a public hearing. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Anybody else want to 10· ·say anything? 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I'll just say for the record 12· ·that I've been very responsive to requests from colleagues 13· ·on the board for public hearings.· And I think pretty much 14· ·every time somebody has asked for a public hearing who is a 15· ·member of the board I've supported it.· So I'll probably be 16· ·consistent with that.· But, obviously, if that -- if we 17· ·don't have enough support for that motion, then, you know, 18· ·I'll consider the site plan as it's presented.· But I have 19· ·been supportive of my colleagues when they've asked for 20· ·public hearings, and I will be consistent with that. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Is there a letter from the 22· ·alder?· I didn't see that in my packet. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Yes.· Alder Brenda Harris 24· ·wrote a letter dated June 4, 2019, asking for a public 25· ·hearing. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· She asked for a ·2· ·public hearing? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· She did.· It's one of the ·4· ·last of the several sheets of paper that were passed to us ·5· ·this evening.· It's stapled. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· I respect the courtesy that ·7· ·the alders extend to the alders.· I do indeed.· And you'll ·8· ·see in your binder that there are other political luminaries ·9· ·in the city of New Haven who have written glowing letters of 10· ·support for this enterprise.· And I would also say that 11· ·because there's no cut -- no really fruitful basis on which 12· ·to entertain more testimony than has already been elicited 13· ·through this process that's been going on for quite some 14· ·time, respectfully ask that we stay the course here. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mr. Chair -- 16· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- based on pretty much the 18· ·volume of materials that we have here, it would be 19· ·impossible for us to go through it all and determine, you 20· ·know, how many people are supportive, how many are not.· We 21· ·can look at it and say there's 3 inches and 2 inches, but 22· ·from the correspondence we have received for those in 23· ·opposition -- and I think it was mentioned before -- I only 24· ·saw one reason why a public hearing was requested, and it 25· ·was because of the assertion that it was a shelter as ·1· ·opposed to a rooming house.· And that has been explained and ·2· ·defined, so I think that that knocks that out. ·3· · · · · · · · · So pretty much what we have here is just ·4· ·requests for a public hearing with no basis of why a public ·5· ·hearing would be required, and the applicant has provided a ·6· ·plethora -- that's the word I was thinking of before -- ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Use your vocabulary. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yes. ·9· · · · · · · · · -- a plethora of materials stating why a 10· ·public hearing would not.· I'm not even going to mention, 11· ·you know, the application and the benefits or anything about 12· ·the program itself; but it seems that the applicant has gone 13· ·above and beyond communicating with the public on this. 14· · · · · · · · · I do have to commend you on the way that you 15· ·put this together to -- it's very easy to digest, and I 16· ·appreciate that. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So, Mr. Chair, if I may just 18· ·note two things.· One, three of the voting members of the 19· ·panel have said that we should move forward, so there's no 20· ·motion that would pass, so we should move forward. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yes. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· But I would also note that 23· ·it's 7:05 and we've noticed a public hearing to start at 24· ·7:00 on other items.· So is it all right for us to move 25· ·quickly through this item, or do we need to start our public ·1· ·hearing? ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· We can be very succinct. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We should -- we're ·4· ·clearly moving in the direction of finishing this, so let's ·5· ·finish it now. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So now you should give your ·7· ·presentation. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· But keep it succinct, ·9· ·please. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· We will be succinct. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Primarily now you'll hear from 12· ·the architects because that's an attractive component.· And 13· ·I just want to say since we've had this workshop on the 14· ·Grand Avenue and Whalley and Dixwell commercial corridors 15· ·that this forward -- this street-facing commercial use and 16· ·the idea of adding a second story to this building is 17· ·consistent with the direction in which the city is 18· ·attempting to go on the commercial corridors. 19· · · · · · · · · Nobody heard me.· You heard me say that. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I did. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Give us a moment to get set 22· ·up. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Trees have died. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Renewable resource. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· I just wanted to say, first of ·1· ·all, that it's been a wonderful experience -- ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Your name. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· What is your name and ·4· ·address? ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· Turner Brooks, architect.· And ·6· ·Duo Dickinson, architect, over here. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· And address. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Address. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Address where you live, for the 10· ·record. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· Oh, Reservoir Street in New 12· ·Haven. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And your colleague? 15· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· I'm Duo Dickinson.· I'm from 16· ·94 Bradley Road, Madison, Connecticut. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· And also numerous Yale students 18· ·who have been working with Y2Y.· It's been amazing energy 19· ·helping out on all fronts.· I just wanted to say that Youth 20· ·Continuum and Y2Y are amazing organizations to work with. 21· ·It's one of my -- you know, I would say one of my most 22· ·exciting projects in a long career as an architect because 23· ·of the commitment of these two organizations for actually 24· ·putting homeless youth back on their feet and making them 25· ·viable members of our society again.· So it's been an ·1· ·incredible sort of altruistic and meaningful project, I ·2· ·think, for all of us. ·3· · · · · · · · · The second thing I want to say is that I ·4· ·think this project in a sort of urban sense helps the site ·5· ·of Grand Avenue a lot.· I think that a lot in the '50s and ·6· ·'60s, it was like tooth -- teeth were falling out of major ·7· ·urban arteries and streets, and I feel that we're replacing ·8· ·a missing tooth, which helps the atmosphere of Grand Avenue, ·9· ·and I think you can see here that this is the existing 10· ·building, which is a typical '50s and '60s building, one 11· ·story, which really is not urban at all and looks like it 12· ·should be somewhere off in the suburbs.· This is the new 13· ·building with the added second story, which I think helps a 14· ·lot in its definition of Grand Avenue as an urban place. 15· · · · · · · · · At the same time, I think it's kind of a 16· ·gentle humble urban building, not a grand architecty 17· ·building.· And on the back, it needs a residential -- the 18· ·backyard is a residential street.· And in a way, the whole 19· ·building slopes down towards the smaller-scale buildings -- 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· In the back. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· -- in the back.· And so I like 22· ·to think -- or we like to think that it kind of evolves from 23· ·the small scale of the residence to the larger scale of 24· ·Grand Avenue, which is defined with its larger facade. 25· · · · · · · · · So this is the street front.· This is a view ·1· ·from the northeast of the existing and the new building. ·2· ·This is a shot of what is the current backyard.· This would ·3· ·be the new backyard with new plantings, hopefully a garden, ·4· ·planters, and a very important bike rack to the back of the ·5· ·building.· Again, you can see the scale gets lower as it ·6· ·comes down towards the residential buildings in the back. ·7· · · · · · · · · The basic three-story structure and the ·8· ·basement is the expansion storage space for both the Youth ·9· ·Continuum and Y2Y.· The second floor is a renovation of 10· ·Youth Continuum, basically the same program, added elements, 11· ·but basically the same.· And then our main work is obviously 12· ·the second floor addition to the building, which is the Y2Y, 13· ·which basically you come up a stair here and into the 14· ·check-in space. 15· · · · · · · · · And then this space opens up, which is the 16· ·lounge and dining area served by a quite expansive kitchen 17· ·along here.· And then the main sleeping area is in here, the 18· ·beds aligned along these two walls, and then a small 19· ·sleeping area above them and a balcony, which you can see 20· ·back here. 21· · · · · · · · · You can see the basic layout.· So this is 22· ·the check-in room here.· You come through this door.· This 23· ·is the social space and eating space and the kitchen there. 24· ·These are little programmatic laundry, bathrooms, and staff 25· ·sleeping area on the side. ·1· · · · · · · · · Let's see.· Is there anything more I should ·2· ·be -- ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Is there handicap ·4· ·access? ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Yeah.· There will be an ·6· ·elevator installed. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· There's an elevator right here ·8· ·next to the back stair, yeah.· So, yeah, you can get there ·9· ·down the hall or you can go to the back to get to that. 10· · · · · · · · · I think that's about all I need to say.· Do 11· ·any of you want to -- 12· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· Well, the only thing I can 13· ·say is that one of the things that any good project does is 14· ·it brings up the -- it brings the building that we're 15· ·dealing with completely into code, so handicap 16· ·accessibility, energy, everything is brought up to code. 17· ·And so that makes a building that's good to go for 30 or 18· ·40 years, whereas now there are issues with building it that 19· ·way.· And Turner has worked like crazy and I have, too -- 20· ·but on the inside -- to make the interior something that is 21· ·anything but a place you want to be.· It gives the people 22· ·that are there a sense of pride and humanity, which is 23· ·missing from so many lives, in general, but in this 24· ·population specifically.· So I think it does the highest and 25· ·best reaction to a true and abiding need and addresses it ·1· ·incredibly well. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· Just to locate you in the two ·3· ·renderings, here you've entered through this door and you're ·4· ·looking this way out towards Grand Avenue, kitchen on your ·5· ·left.· And this view, you're looking back into the sleeping ·6· ·realm behind on the south.· There's lots of natural light. ·7· ·All the windows are very high, so people are kind of ·8· ·shielded actually from the street. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Do my 10· ·colleagues have questions or comments? 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I do have a question.· And I 12· ·really wish I didn't have a question, but only because the 13· ·sleeping -- what do you call the areas? 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Pods. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· The pods are not 16· ·enclosed, there's no door, so it's not a room.· They're 17· ·shared like it's a bunk? 18· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· I'm going to let Sam and Paul 19· ·respond to that.· The idea is that they don't want to be 20· ·totally hidden away. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I'm just asking about the 22· ·structure. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Yeah.· I can speak to that. 24· ·So the concept is one that's meant to replicate college 25· ·dorms, and it's one that will be workshopped with youth and ·1· ·young adults who are experiencing homelessness before it's ·2· ·finalized.· The intent is to maximize privacy while knowing ·3· ·that we need our staff to be able to monitor at all times ·4· ·and keep an eye on it. ·5· · · · · · · · · So while it is doubled up, we can kind of ·6· ·feel like we can maximize the privacy that exists and are ·7· ·likely going to be implementing kind of some kind of screen ·8· ·across the front.· I think we still just want to make sure ·9· ·we get that really right.· The concept is based on college 10· ·dorms. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· But it's a co-ed 12· ·facility?· That's what I was asking about. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Yeah. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So male and female will be 15· ·sharing the same common -- 16· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· We have incorporated a loft 17· ·of additional sleeping space here. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· So there are some natural 20· ·divisions and distinctions, because this isn't just about 21· ·gender.· It's also about personality and place in life and 22· ·status.· So there's a lot of different facilities for 23· ·self-separation. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· Yeah. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· That's kind of what I ·1· ·was getting at, you know, kind of sort of. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. BROOKS:· I mean, that's a very profound ·3· ·question for the project, this sort of thing with privacy ·4· ·versus some supervision. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· And the reason why I ask ·6· ·that is because I've worked in a shelter, this not being a ·7· ·shelter; but in a shelter, you still have to allow for some ·8· ·rooms of privacy or separation based on needs of, you know, ·9· ·the clients or the individuals. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. GREENBERG:· So that's something that we 11· ·have wrestled with a lot.· And I think the important thing 12· ·that is limited by gendered spaces is that we know that our 13· ·young people -- not all of our young people identify in the 14· ·binary and that our young people -- that we know that there 15· ·can be all kinds of situations to work through.· So the way 16· ·that we plan to operationalize it is to work sort of in this 17· ·very flexible, fluid, and personalized way to address that. 18· · · · · · · · · Totally agree, yeah. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yeah. 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Anybody else want to 21· ·ask? 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I do, Mr. Chair. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Go right ahead. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Bike racks.· I wanted to see 25· ·them real quickly because the sheets that I saw -- one of ·1· ·them looked kind of like an old-school rack from which bikes ·2· ·are easily stolen. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· There's also a bike room in ·4· ·the basement so that storage of bikes can occur interior as ·5· ·well. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· That's great. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· So this is 15 linear feet, ·8· ·the highest density we can.· Doesn't impose on the street, ·9· ·doesn't impose on any path of egress, and it's secure. 10· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· How?· What's the 11· ·security? 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· It's in the back. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· Well, it's fully -- it will 14· ·be fully visible from a camera and it will be monitored and 15· ·it will be independent of getting in the way of anything. 16· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Could you lock the 17· ·bike to -- 18· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· Oh, absolutely. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Can you lock the frame to it? 20· ·Because it looks like you can only lock the wheel. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· Well, the -- totally down 22· ·with what you're saying.· The truth is that we would have to 23· ·make the right bike -- in that circumstance, the right bike 24· ·rack so that there's absolute security.· You are 100 percent 25· ·correct.· So there would be a metal frame.· We would be able ·1· ·to chain lock the frame to that frame. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Right. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Because if you just lock your ·4· ·tire, your bike is gone, but your tire is there. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· Totally correct. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· This is just a fancy ·7· ·picture. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· This is what we call a ·9· ·graphic representation of what -- 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We need two points of 11· ·connection. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. DICKINSON:· Oh, totally.· 100 percent. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You've passed the 14· ·bike test. 15· · · · · · · · · Okay.· So you want to tell us about your 16· ·recommendation to us? 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Mr. Chair, we recommended 18· ·approval with the standard conditions.· We did not include 19· ·any additional conditions, though you could always entertain 20· ·adding some, but otherwise they are zoning compliant, fully 21· ·parked, fully bicycle parked, and recommend approval 22· ·otherwise. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· So -- 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mr. Chair -- 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· If there's no need for any ·2· ·additional questions or discussion, I highly recommend to ·3· ·move this item. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So you're moving the item? ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I am moving this item. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Thank you. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I think I should ·8· ·speak to this because my colleague -- I generally support ·9· ·having public hearings when people ask for them; but in this 10· ·instance, I think not because I think as the staff has said, 11· ·this application clearly -- I've read every word of all this 12· ·stuff and gone through it.· It clearly, in my opinion, meets 13· ·the requirements of the New Haven zoning code and it 14· ·meets -- it meets the requirements of what we require of 15· ·people when we do a site plan review. 16· · · · · · · · · So I don't -- I think it would be 17· ·illegitimate to simply hear from either the people who want 18· ·it or the people who don't.· It's not within our purview to 19· ·make that decision.· We are a technical body when it comes 20· ·to site plan reviews, and it meets all technical 21· ·requirements.· So I am going to -- unusually for me, to vote 22· ·against -- or to vote in favor of going forward with this 23· ·application. 24· · · · · · · · · Anybody else want to say anything?· If not, 25· ·all in favor? ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· We didn't get a second. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· How about a second? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· You don't need a second. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We don't need a ·5· ·second. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· One person is enough to show ·7· ·there's enough interest for us to move it, so we don't need ·8· ·a second. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All in favor? 10· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. PAGAN:· I abstain. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You abstain.· Okay. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. DiADAMO:· I'm in favor. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· I'm not voting. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· And you're not 16· ·voting.· So the ayes have it. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. SHANSKY:· Thank you, Mr. Chair. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Take a five-minute 19· ·recess. 20· · · · · · · · · (Recess from 7:22 p.m. to 7:29 p.m.) 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I'm calling us back 22· ·into session, and what are we doing next? 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Mr. Chair, the next item is 24· ·1558-08.· This is 19 Wheeler Street.· It's a special permit 25· ·application.· The applicant has requested no action and ·1· ·would like you to consider tabling the item. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· I'll hear a ·3· ·motion. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I move that we ·5· ·table Item 1558-08. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? ·7· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Weren't there two items on 19 ·9· ·Wheeler Street?· Are we tabling both? 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We can do that later. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· If you do that, it might 12· ·make most sense. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, even though it's 14· ·out of order, I'm going to move that we table 15 -- out of 15· ·sequence -- use your words carefully. 16· · · · · · · · · I move that we table item 1558-07. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· The associated site plan and 19· ·posted site plan review of the item we just tabled. 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 21· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· What's next? 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Mr. Chair, the next item is 24· ·1558-09.· This is 414 Chapel Street.· It is a special permit 25· ·application to allow for dwelling units in existing ·1· ·structure that is greater than 50,000 square feet gross ·2· ·square area in the IL zone.· And, Mr. Chair, there's ·3· ·actually an associated site plan application if you wanted ·4· ·to entertain hearing them simultaneously. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I think we'll hear ·6· ·them together. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· 414. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· 414 Chapel. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Here we are.· 414 10· ·Chapel.· But there's two 414 Chapels. 11· · · · · · · · · We're ready. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Ben, it may be easier when 13· ·you're ready for each of your team members to introduce 14· ·themselves for the record. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. BEN TRACHTEN:· Sure.· I'm attorney Ben 16· ·Trachten.· This is Sam Gardner. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Sam Gardner with GWG 18· ·Architects here in New Haven. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Want to give us 20· ·addresses, too. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· I'm 679 State Street, New 22· ·Haven, Connecticut 06511. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Sam Gardner, GWG Architects at 24· ·151 East Street. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· James Sakonchick, ·1· ·engineer/land surveyor, 1755 Meriden Waterbury Turnpike, ·2· ·Milldale, Connecticut. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· Manuel Perez, Carriage House, ·4· ·LLC, 409 Park Street, New Haven. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· All right.· So this is an ·7· ·application for a special permit and site plan approval for ·8· ·414 Chapel and 160 East Street.· The application seeks to ·9· ·convert 87 -- the current commercial space into 87 10· ·residential units.· Parking is provided on-site.· The 11· ·building is currently occupied with commercial tenants, who 12· ·are going to stay in place as construction is kind of phased 13· ·in two phases.· Property is located in an IL zone and is 14· ·exactly the type of building targeted by the city for 15· ·conversion to residential use by the use table.· I guess 16· ·I'll have Sam go through the plans. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Tell us what you're 18· ·doing.· Oh, this is that building. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· That doesn't sound too good. 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· The cross street is? 21· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· It's on East.· It occupies the 22· ·block. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah.· That's a big 24· ·building. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Big building.· Having analyzed ·1· ·it, you see it's actually a series of buildings through ·2· ·time. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Yeah.· We've got a few of ·4· ·those. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah.· Some of the ·6· ·floors don't match either. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· They do actually.· You find ·8· ·big masonry walls in the middle of the building, and you ·9· ·realize it's two buildings or three buildings. 10· · · · · · · · · So this represents the -- the building is 11· ·four stories currently, but it has a raised basement, so it 12· ·pops out of the ground.· Along South Wallace Street, there's 13· ·actually areaways so that the basement windows are full 14· ·light windows, you know, full access to air and light. 15· ·There are other areas that pop out of the building along 16· ·Wooster, same kind of situation. 17· · · · · · · · · So conversion to residential, 87 mixed 18· ·apartments, one-, two-, three-bedroom apartments based on 19· ·the layout that we configure.· The 87 is basically as a 20· ·right.· We didn't try to do more than what we could achieve 21· ·through our zone. 22· · · · · · · · · There are some site features which are 23· ·really about -- which are like for amenities for the 24· ·tenants.· We've created a pool area and there 's a roof -- 25· ·there's a one-story piece here where we're putting a roof ·1· ·terrace on it.· And that room itself goes down into the ·2· ·basement.· It has a very high ceiling, so it's going to be ·3· ·kind of -- it could be -- you could play basketball there. ·4· ·It's going to be part of the amenities. ·5· · · · · · · · · And what we did do is that there's an ·6· ·existing elevator and staircase sort of at the center of the ·7· ·building, and it didn't have an airlock -- or it had a -- ·8· ·not an airlock that connected to the stairs.· It was just at ·9· ·the elevator.· So we gave it a little bit of a one-story 10· ·wrap to help the building touch the ground and also let 11· ·people know that's the front door.· That's where you can 12· ·enter the building. 13· · · · · · · · · I'm trying to think what else should be 14· ·pointed out other than the site plan.· You know, for what 15· ·it's worth, this is how the apartments array themselves.· We 16· ·made sure there were staircases, you know, all along the 17· ·ways so that we could meet fire code and actually two 18· ·elevators that are existing and sort of fall out in good 19· ·locations for the conversion. 20· · · · · · · · · The basement does have apartments where we 21· ·have those air wells along the Wooster and South Wallace 22· ·Street.· There's some even along the parking lot where 23· ·we've -- right now they park right up against the building. 24· ·We created a grassy median there to create some distance for 25· ·those apartments so it's not like cars are parking right in ·1· ·your kitchen window.· And then elevation-wise, a lot of ·2· ·windows.· So, actually, they lay out nicely for apartments, ·3· ·I've got to say.· You can see these windows along here. ·4· ·Those are the windows that are in the basement.· They're ·5· ·actually in the lower level.· Then you have the four stories ·6· ·above. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Are you going to do ·8· ·anything with the exterior? ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Minor.· It's actually a 10· ·handsome industrial mill building.· We're kind of making a 11· ·feature out of that added elevator at some point.· We're 12· ·kind of giving it a crown and maybe even a clock.· But the 13· ·idea is to -- there actually are buildings -- old mill 14· ·buildings nearby that have the same kind of towers, so we 15· ·were playing with that, make them a little more -- just 16· ·dress them up a little. 17· · · · · · · · · And this view here is that new airlock, and 18· ·the architecture is kind of in industrial materials, you 19· ·know, steel sash.· This happens -- this was an addition. 20· ·It's not a better part of the building, so we clad it a 21· ·little bit and sort of organized the existing windows, which 22· ·are windows that are not into apartments.· They're windows 23· ·into, like, elevator lobbies.· So we dressed that up and 24· ·that's it.· The rest of it is the existing brick and 25· ·original sash windows. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Does the building ·2· ·require extensive interior -- ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Well, it's going to be ·4· ·repurposed, so the walls that are there are probably going ·5· ·to go away.· And they're all modern improvements for office ·6· ·space, its current use. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Questions? ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· 87 units? ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· 87 units. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· One to three bedroom or one, 11· ·two? 12· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· One, two, and threes. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· What's the overall square 14· ·footage of the units?· A one-bedroom is 450 square feet? 15· ·800? 16· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· We have a chart right here. 17· ·They're all slightly different.· There's not one module 18· ·that -- 19· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Are there apartments in the 20· ·basement? 21· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· There are. 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· There are now. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· No.· Not now. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Not now? 25· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· No.· It's a commercial ·1· ·building. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, you're saying ·3· ·that you're going to. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· The question was:· Are we ·5· ·putting apartments in the basement?· And the answer is yes. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Is it going to be all ·7· ·residential?· Tenants are moving out, All Our Kin? ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· All residential, except as ·9· ·stated by the lawyer. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· Overall, eventually it will 11· ·be all residential.· All Our Kin is on a long-term lease. 12· ·Like I said, renovation will be phased in, in two phases, so 13· ·All Our Kin's lease will have terminated by the time we get 14· ·to renovating their first-floor space. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Yeah.· So we're showing you 16· ·where it's going. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Where it's going. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· During construction documents 19· ·phase, we'll figure out how to phase this and keep the 20· ·spaces separate and also meet fire and building code. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So back to the square 22· ·footage or the layout, I mean, are we talking studio 23· ·apartment? one-bedroom apartment? 24· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· There's 14 studios, 25· ·one-bedrooms, 27 two-bedrooms, and 87 total units. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Are there ·2· ·three-bedrooms? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· I guess I was incorrect.· We ·4· ·had some.· They went away. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But you don't have an ·6· ·average square footage of what these units are going to be? ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· No. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Are they tiny? ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· That's what I'm -- 10· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Do you know what the -- 11· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· I think the studios are about 12· ·500 square feet.· The one-bedrooms are about 600, 650.· And 13· ·the two-bedrooms are 950 to 1,000. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Average size? 15· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· Average, yeah.· Some are a 16· ·little bigger, a little smaller. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· When you say "average," it 18· ·depends on who you're talking to.· No, seriously.· You know, 19· ·you've got some 450-square-feet and you have some 20· ·800-square-feet -- 21· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· Absolutely. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- single bedrooms. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· But they're not microapartments 24· ·or anything.· They're pretty standard for what's out there. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Right.· And the layout is ·1· ·really driven by the windows, to be honest. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Any questions? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. PAGAN:· The ceiling height for the ·4· ·basement.· Do you have that? ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· It averages around -- ·6· ·currently, it's 9 feet, but we haven't really thought ·7· ·through how we're going to run utilities.· I imagine it's ·8· ·going to stay in that 8-foot to 9-foot range. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. PAGAN:· Drop ceiling? 10· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Right.· Some kind.· And maybe 11· ·it's just in certain areas, you know. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Parking? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Lots of parking.· That might 14· ·be a good segue to the site plan. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Give a site 16· ·plan. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· The intent here was to try 18· ·to work with the property, so I've maintained the existing 19· ·grade to the extent possible because I was able to. 20· ·Fortunately, the site has a nice gentle slope on the Chapel 21· ·Street side towards Wooster Street. 22· · · · · · · · · And what I did is for the parking lot, I 23· ·have bituminous for the main travel ways, where they get the 24· ·most wear and tear; but I've incorporated extensive areas of 25· ·porous block pavers all through here where the cars park. ·1· ·And what I tried to do is build in some environmentally ·2· ·friendly methods of handling the storm drainage.· These are ·3· ·porous pavers, which means that there's space between the ·4· ·individual blocks. ·5· · · · · · · · · Below it -- normally, you have bituminous ·6· ·paving and 8 inches of gravel.· I've got the block, 4 inches ·7· ·of transition, you know, smaller stone, and then 24 inches ·8· ·of a crushed stone.· What that does is it gives me ·9· ·effectively 9 inches of static water storage.· So I'm able 10· ·to on this site have static underground storage of 2 inches 11· ·of rainfall on the site. 12· · · · · · · · · And, also, the underlying natural soils are 13· ·sands and gravel, so in addition to that, you have a high 14· ·propensity to infiltration in the ground.· What we did -- 15· ·you always have to worry about these porous pavers getting 16· ·clogged, so we anticipated to create low points where we 17· ·have a dry well with conventional grate so that in the 18· ·winter, if it gets kind of goofy, you have conventional 19· ·drainage.· And in the spring time or the fall time -- in the 20· ·spring, you clean up the sand that might have been used for 21· ·the snow.· In the fall, you clean off the leaves and stuff. 22· ·So that is part of a maintenance program built into the 23· ·specifications. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Very interesting. 25· · · · · · · · · We've had lots of discussion towards pavers, ·1· ·and a lot of builders don't like them because they require ·2· ·masonry. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· You know, they do, but I ·4· ·think the change in that the physical appearance of the ·5· ·parking area is not a sea of asphalt.· You have these change ·6· ·of materials, change of color, and it's just friendlier. ·7· ·This gentleman over here is trying to entice people to rent ·8· ·his apartments.· So I think in terms of parking lots, it's ·9· ·not an amenity.· It's just less objectionable. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Does that help our heat 11· ·reflection? 12· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· Absolutely. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Because the pavers are white 14· ·or beige or gray? 15· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· Yeah.· I go for the lighter 16· ·colors and take full advantage of the high SRI index for 17· ·them.· So we're able to meet the requirements. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I see you do have a 19· ·fair amount of green too. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· Yes.· Yes.· You know, we 21· ·try -- like here we have these little areas over here, which 22· ·are kind of designated "dog walk" areas, trying to keep it 23· ·separate from a little green area I have over here, a pretty 24· ·good size.· And that would be a sitting area, a chew-the-fat 25· ·area, you know, with trees and stuff there.· And that's ·1· ·separate from the pool area, which is over here and kind of ·2· ·like a high traffic area over here where -- so we're giving ·3· ·people options.· They're able to certainly walk the dogs ·4· ·around the block, take care of business over here, sit on ·5· ·the benches, and just talk to your neighbors.· We're trying ·6· ·to encourage that type of interaction. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· That building -- its ·8· ·only fault really is that it's kind of severe.· It looks ·9· ·very businesslike.· It's hard to imagine living there, but I 10· ·see you've thought of that. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· Tried to. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Are there questions 13· ·or anybody want to -- 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· If I may, Mr. Chair. 15· · · · · · · · · Could you walk us through the traffic flow 16· ·for the folks who are going to park there. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· What I did is I have -- 18· ·Chapel Street is, you know, a main thoroughfare.· I'm trying 19· ·to get one way in off of Chapel Street.· You have one way 20· ·going down here to a point over here.· Now, from here to 21· ·here is two-way traffic for these reasons. 22· · · · · · · · · I also have a two-way entrance off of 23· ·Wooster Street.· In fact, I'm trying to encourage people to 24· ·be comfortable with Wooster Street because this part of 25· ·Wooster Street has no traffic.· It's just kind of cut off by ·1· ·that past highway.· So I'm able to have cars leave here ·2· ·quite safely and enter here.· A car can enter here, go ·3· ·around, come over, and get to the handicap parking space, ·4· ·turn around, and leave.· Or if they choose to come in Chapel ·5· ·Street, they can come in, use the handicap parking space, ·6· ·and leave.· Other options, one-way traffic comes in.· This ·7· ·is one way leading out.· I purposely zigzag this.· I'm ·8· ·trying to do what I can for traffic calming. ·9· · · · · · · · · Same over here.· People leaving here would 10· ·go out and down, but people entering are forced to go around 11· ·like this.· And maybe they can go this way or park and just 12· ·do the circle and leave, but a lot of attempts to keep them 13· ·slow. 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· How many slots have 15· ·you got to park? 16· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· 87. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· 87. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· 77. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· 77.· I misspoke. 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· 77. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· So I think on-site currently 22· ·there's over 100 parking spots. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· That is correct. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· We're reducing parking. I 25· ·don't think you can find a blade of grass on the entire site ·1· ·currently, so we're adding green space. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Right.· And those spaces never ·3· ·met current requirements. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· No.· That's right. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Not even close. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Most of them have ·7· ·lost their striping. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· Did you ask -- ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Bikes. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Bikes.· Thank you for 11· ·reminding me. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· That's where the 87 is.· We 13· ·do have a bike rack over here.· We came up with a -- a 14· ·little bit of research and came up with a spiral type of 15· ·bike rack because you want to be able to clamp both ends of 16· ·the bike.· I was trying to come up with something that's 17· ·architecturally, you know, a little bit more interesting. 18· · · · · · · · · I'd also like to plug the fact that we're 19· ·going to redo the curbs and sidewalks along East Street as 20· ·well as Wooster Street, so there's some public improvements 21· ·committed to as part of this development. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Do you have any interior bike 23· ·storage with this? 24· · · · · · · · · MR. SAKONCHICK:· Yes. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· How many spaces? ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· It's a bike room.· It can ·2· ·probably hold 20, 25 bikes. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I would just note that this ·4· ·is not far from -- I mean, it's near downtown. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Sure. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· There could be very many ·7· ·people who would want to bike.· You're just blocks away from ·8· ·the first two-way protected bike lane, which is right ·9· ·alongside Long Wharf.· So there's a lot of -- it would be an 10· ·enhancement to the appeal of the facility.· Its location is 11· ·great for biking, but a lot of people like to store their 12· ·bikes inside because they're more secure and they don't get 13· ·rained on or sleeted on or snowed on.· So I think having 14· ·really good interior storage for bikes is a good amenity to 15· ·have. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· We have a lot of amenities, so 17· ·we're not even sure what -- we could designate a nice amount 18· ·of space for it. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· That's a good draw.· It's 20· ·nice to have the spots where people can lock their bike 21· ·quickly and go to their apartment or maybe they're going to 22· ·see a visitor.· But if you live there, you're going to park 23· ·your bike inside because that's where it's safest and it's 24· ·not going to get bird poop on it and everything else that 25· ·happens.· So I would encourage you to invest in interior ·1· ·bike storage. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· If anybody ·3· ·else has anything else to say. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I do have something else to ·5· ·say.· Thank you for asking. ·6· · · · · · · · · How about affordability?· Is this all market ·7· ·rate?· Have you thought about affordability? ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· Yeah.· This is going to be a ·9· ·market-rate development.· The amount of money that's 10· ·required is just too high to entertain affordable housing at 11· ·this location.· That may change in the future.· We're open 12· ·to pursuing every option for funding that's available.· So 13· ·if it changes and the plan matures, we're certainly open to 14· ·going in that direction. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It's a very important policy 16· ·priority for us in the city right now to develop more 17· ·affordable places for people to live.· We've had such a big 18· ·increase in market-rate housing.· We don't want to leave 19· ·everybody behind.· So it's not a requirement.· I'm not going 20· ·to make it a condition of approval, but I just -- 21· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· It's an ask. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- encourage you to look at 23· ·it. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· What I would say is that this 25· ·is definitely positioned slightly lower in price than ·1· ·downtown.· So while not a restricted affordable housing ·2· ·development, it's -- ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· Workforce. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· It's more affordable overall ·5· ·than what you're going to see closer to downtown. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Any idea of the rent ·7· ·level? ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· What's that? ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Rent cost, what it 10· ·will be. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· We don't have exact numbers. 12· ·We're still working that out.· It's going to be like 20, 13· ·25 percent lower than comparable stuff that are in downtown, 14· ·comparable class. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Just by a difference of 16· ·geography. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· Yes. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· But I encourage you to be 19· ·open to those other options. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. PEREZ:· Absolutely. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Two quick things.· One is I want 22· ·to echo the bike thing that the alder said.· We actually 23· ·will probably have a two-way cycle track down East Street, 24· ·and this is located right in the center of our eventual bike 25· ·network. ·1· · · · · · · · · The second thing is we have a condition of ·2· ·approval about just clarifying the inverts on the dry wells. ·3· ·Thank you.· That works for me. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· We're good to go then? ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· We're good to go. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· I guess I'll ·7· ·hear a motion. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair -- ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- I'm going to move the 11· ·special permit item first. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON: Okay. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I move Item 1558-09, the 14· ·special item associated with the 414 Chapel Street project. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 16· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Anybody -- did I hear 18· ·everybody? 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair -- 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- I move Item 1558-05, the 22· ·site plan review associated with the 414 Chapel Street 23· ·project. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 25· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. TRACHTEN:· Thank you. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Good luck. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Oh, Mr. Chair.· I beg your ·4· ·pardon.· This is a public hearing item, and we have not ·5· ·asked for any public testimony. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We're not done. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We need to ask for public ·8· ·testimony. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· That's interesting. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Do we have the sheet? 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Anybody sign up or 12· ·anybody who wants to speak to this item?· We don't require 13· ·really people to sign up.· Anybody want to speak up for this 14· ·item? 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Dodged a bullet on that one. 16· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Done. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Vote to close the public 18· ·hearing. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Yeah, vote to close the public 20· ·hearing. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I declare the public 22· ·hearing closed. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· On that item? 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· On that item.· Are 25· ·both of them -- ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Just the 1558-09 is closed. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Should we vote again? ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Do we have to revote? ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I move 1558-09, ·5· ·the special permit associated with 414 Chapel Street. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All in favor? ·7· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I move 1558-05, 10· ·the site plan review associated with 414 Chapel Street. 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All in favor? 12· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Excellent. 14· · · · · · · · · Good catch, Alder Marchand. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You really feel bad. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Why do I feel bad? 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You're the one in 18· ·charge of keeping me -- 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· No, I'm not. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· No, he's not.· I got him 21· ·today.· I'm in charge today. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Mr. Chairman, the next item on 23· ·the agenda is 1558-10, which is an amendment to the New 24· ·Haven Municipal Code to Article 2, Section 30 3/4 through 41 25· ·of the code of ordinance to reduce plastic bags at retail ·1· ·checkouts in the city of New Haven.· I think that we have ·2· ·a -- I think that we can allow for the applicants perhaps or ·3· ·the -- ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· The makers. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah, somebody. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· If they wish.· If not, I can do ·7· ·a little overview as well. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· At least come forward.· We ·9· ·would love to hear from the makers.· That's what we call 10· ·them. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· If you could introduce yourself 12· ·and state your address. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· Esther Armmand, 664 Quinnipiac 14· ·Avenue and office of the mayor. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. FAYE:· Kathy Faye, 61 Springside, and 16· ·member of the New Haven Environmental Advisory Council. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Laura Cahn, 54 Cleveland Road, 18· ·Environmental Advisory Council. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· Kevin McCarthy, 171 Bradley, 20· ·also on the Environmental Advisory Council. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· And I also want to say past 22· ·member of the EAC. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· And I was on the committee to 24· ·work on this issue with Esther, but she's the expert. 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay, expert.· Speak ·1· ·up. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· You want to read off the -- I ·3· ·think the chair of the EAC is going to read it. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· I guess I'm volunteering to ·5· ·read it.· I'm actually the vice chair.· She's the chair. ·6· · · · · · · · · First of all, good evening.· The ·7· ·Environmental Advisory Council strongly supports the plastic ·8· ·bag reduction plan, thanks to Miss Esther and -- I'm going ·9· ·to butcher his name -- Alder Hacibey Catalbasoglu. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Hacibey Catalbasoglu, alder 11· ·for Ward 1. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· Also Cheryl Baldwin, Pierre 13· ·Barbour, and everyone else who worked on this issue and 14· ·thank City Plan for their support.· We applaud the New Haven 15· ·Solid Waste Recycling Authority for educating New Haveners 16· ·about resource, reuse, and reduction.· One of things they've 17· ·done is present a textile deciphering PowerPoint number at 18· ·the April 2019 meeting of our council.· They distributed an 19· ·Earth Day coupon and sponsored the textile recycling 20· ·initiative.· They hosted school groups at their office to 21· ·teach kids about recycling and provided reusable bags and 22· ·recycling activity books for use citywide.· They've done a 23· ·lot of good things. 24· · · · · · · · · I expect my colleagues have other things 25· ·they want to say about this proposal.· We also want to ·1· ·address some of the other proposals on the agenda. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I can give a quick overview, if ·3· ·you would like, and then you can talk about the particulars. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Yes. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· So essentially a group of ·6· ·individuals -- ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Let me interrupt you ·8· ·for one second.· Would you give your addresses for the ·9· ·record. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· They did. 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, they did. I 12· ·didn't hear that. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I didn't either. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I did. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· So as Kevin had mentioned, the 16· ·EAC committee advisory council, including Esther and alder 17· ·of Ward 1 had worked together over the past couple of months 18· ·at the direction of Mayor Toni Harp and the support of a lot 19· ·of other community members to determine how to best mitigate 20· ·the environmental impacts related to plastic bags at the 21· ·point of retail checkout in New Haven. 22· · · · · · · · · So this amendment to the code of ordinances 23· ·essentially -- it seems like it sets up, like, two parts 24· ·basically, where there's a ban on plastic bags at retail 25· ·checkout after one year after the city has had the chance to ·1· ·and the EAC has had the chance to collaboratively work with ·2· ·stakeholders to not only educate people, but to give them ·3· ·the opportunity to work toward finding alternative means of ·4· ·bagging at checkout before the actual ban a year later. ·5· · · · · · · · · If you want to talk about any of the ·6· ·particulars or if the commission has any specific ·7· ·questions -- we did add the proposed amendment language, all ·8· ·of it, to the report.· So if you have a chance to look ·9· ·through that as well. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I just want to add please read 11· ·the actual ordinance language, which is really beautifully 12· ·written by Esther. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· Thank you. 14· · · · · · · · · The other thing I want to add is that the 15· ·idea here is not to promote plastic bags, but it's also not 16· ·promoting paper bags.· I wanted to say that.· It's really 17· ·promoting reusable bags.· And the idea is to look at how we 18· ·reduce waste overall in terms of the environment. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I guess I'm curious.· Do you 20· ·mind talking about the collaborative component? 21· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Not at all.· So we started, I 22· ·think, more than a year ago with listening to other 23· ·communities that have already worked on this issue, like 24· ·Greenwich and Westport, and finding out what they were doing 25· ·and what they suggested.· And we conferred with Cheryl ·1· ·Baldwin, who happens to be a New Haven resident, but is also ·2· ·the state materials management expert, sustainable ·3· ·management expert.· Esther wisely decided that unlike the ·4· ·state, we do not want to punish consumers by charging them ·5· ·for every bag, and we don't want to put more money ·6· ·necessarily in the pocket of stores. ·7· · · · · · · · · We really want to make everyone in New Haven ·8· ·understand that this is an environmental savings initiative ·9· ·to try to reduce use of things we really don't need.· And 10· ·we've already had several events where we have given out the 11· ·reusable bags that the New Haven Recycling Authority had 12· ·printed up.· Pierre Barbour has been very good at making 13· ·sure we got a very good start on educating people before 14· ·anything by the city or the state goes into effect, so we're 15· ·not trying to penalize anyone; we just want everyone to 16· ·understand that the way we have been operating is not 17· ·sustainable.· We need to go about this in a different way. 18· ·And Esther has found a very happy medium, I think, for us to 19· ·use as a launching point to go forward. 20· · · · · · · · · I'll pass this around and you can just see. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· And let me add a little bit 22· ·more to the collaborative component and break it down a 23· ·little bit because the idea is to engage key stakeholders, 24· ·and that's both consumers, merchants, as well as community. 25· · · · · · · · · And we hope that -- and, actually, there are ·1· ·examples of merchants already that do not distribute plastic ·2· ·bags.· So we want to look at those policies and see how ·3· ·they've done it and what their impact might have been.· We ·4· ·also want to encourage consumers to, you know, bring their ·5· ·own bags for the most part.· And we want merchants, where ·6· ·possible, to create little incentives for people that do ·7· ·that. ·8· · · · · · · · · And I know that a couple of businesses ·9· ·already -- if you bring your own bag, they'll knock like 10· ·five cents off, ten cents off your bill and those kind of 11· ·things.· We want to be very creative about how we go about 12· ·this and how we promote it and how we engage sectors of the 13· ·entire community around this issue. 14· · · · · · · · · And we want to create also among youth an 15· ·environmental bee, you know, where we have youth engaging 16· ·and giving out prizes.· So we really want to just have 17· ·everybody engaged on this issue. 18· · · · · · · · · And New Haven, we know that we like being 19· ·engaged and involved, so we want to use that and be creative 20· ·in how we use that. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I am a person who is 22· ·a fanatic on this topic. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Good. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· And I always bring 25· ·our own bags and they have nice pictures of animals from ·1· ·Natural Resources Defense Council.· Some staff people at ·2· ·Stop & Shop are delighted to look at the animals.· Others ·3· ·are not so enthusiastic.· I would say that your largest job ·4· ·is going to be to convince them that the half a second extra ·5· ·that they have to spend to put the stuff in the reusable bag ·6· ·is worth the trouble. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· You can help them.· When I go to ·8· ·stores with my reusable bags, I do the bagging myself. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So do I.· But even 10· ·that, they get irritated. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· You know what, they're not going 12· ·to be so irritated when they find out they're helping save 13· ·the planet, I mean. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I am a -- one of those 15· ·recycle, reuse, repurpose.· I'm a proponent of that.· But I 16· ·also have to say, you know -- and I'm not being, you know, 17· ·the devil's advocate.· You know, I'm not doing that. I 18· ·don't even like that term. 19· · · · · · · · · But this year I -- not this year.· Last year 20· ·I contributed a whole -- a plethora of plastic bags to a 21· ·program that the seniors at Tower 1 were doing, where they 22· ·were crocheting the plastic bags into mats that were being 23· ·distributed to the homeless persons so that they would have 24· ·a dry surface.· So that was a very ingenious reuse of those 25· ·bags. ·1· · · · · · · · · I also have a kitchen and bathroom trash can ·2· ·that is full of the bags that I use because then I don't ·3· ·have to buy them.· So I reuse those bags.· Now, if they're ·4· ·not going to be available to me anymore -- you know, and ·5· ·Ernest and I talked about it.· We don't live together, but ·6· ·we were just -- I just asked him, "Do you use those bags in ·7· ·your trash can, too, in the bathroom?" ·8· · · · · · · · · You know, so there are some individuals like ·9· ·myself -- I don't litter.· I just don't litter.· I never 10· ·have, don't litter, so I'm not going to just drop a plastic 11· ·bag somewhere.· I'm going to reuse it and I'm gonna -- 12· ·that's what I'm going to do.· So I don't think -- I mean, 13· ·I'm not going to say that the plastic bags aren't the 14· ·problem.· It's the people that don't use them properly. 15· ·That's the problem. 16· · · · · · · · · But if you take that away, number one, I 17· ·don't know what the cost is to a merchant, you know, the 18· ·difference in the cost for the plastic bags as opposed to 19· ·the paper bags, you know, just to -- 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You're not going to 21· ·be able to use paper bags either. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· No.· I'm saying -- 23· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· You can. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· No.· It does say in here 25· ·that the paper bags that merchants would -- ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· No. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· It does.· It says it in ·3· ·here, that they must be of a certain recyclability. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Paper bags are always that.· You ·5· ·know, here is the thing.· People got along fine without ·6· ·plastic bags. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Right. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· And we will again.· There will 10· ·always be plastic bags available.· You'll always be able to 11· ·buy them. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I'm not saying we don't go 13· ·forward with this.· I'm just saying, you know, that for 14· ·those that might be resistant, you know, to that for those 15· ·reasons, you know, because I mean we have to think of the 16· ·reasons why people do things.· It's not always just because 17· ·they don't want to. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Right. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You know, I have a purpose 20· ·for the plastic bags.· And if it's going to cost the 21· ·merchant more to use -- you know, just like you have to eat 22· ·vegetables now.· Vegetables cost more than meat sometimes. 23· ·You know, so to do the right thing sometimes costs more. 24· ·And if you're not in a position to be able to afford to do 25· ·the right thing, it becomes a problem.· You know, so how are ·1· ·you going to address that? ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· Couple things.· One -- and I ·3· ·think this is clear.· We're not talking about the small bags ·4· ·that you normally wrap the vegetables in.· That's a ·5· ·different type of thing.· That's not being affected by this ·6· ·at all.· You need those. ·7· · · · · · · · · I don't know if there's an exact number, but ·8· ·the term that comes to mind is there are approximately a ·9· ·bazillion plastic bags out there already.· There's not going 10· ·to be a lack of supply for folks that are making sensible 11· ·use of the bags, and there are. 12· · · · · · · · · Finally, I think the collaboration that 13· ·we're talking about may be an opportunity for people to say, 14· ·"Look, this is an issue.· How can we deal with it?" 15· · · · · · · · · And this is not something that's going to go 16· ·into effect overnight.· There will be an opportunity for 17· ·people to talk and come up with sensible ideas to address 18· ·the issues you're raising. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· One last question 20· ·from me. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· We're also encouraging and we 22· ·want to not only encourage but assist people to have 23· ·reusable bags. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I got a bunch of them. I 25· ·just keep forgetting to bring them to the store.· It's going ·1· ·to retraining on the process which -- you know, I mean, I ·2· ·bought them, so I'm almost there. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· It's a learning process for ·4· ·all of us. ·5· · · · · · · · · The other thing I want to add -- and this is ·6· ·not a part of what we have before you tonight; however, we ·7· ·know it's going to impact how we move forward with this item ·8· ·because the state -- many of you might know -- did pass a ·9· ·ban on plastic bags, and they are saying that there will be 10· ·a charge for the bags at the store.· So we will have to look 11· ·at how moving forward what they have passed will impact how 12· ·we implement here, but we are talking about giving ourselves 13· ·a year after the pass anyway before we begin to do anything 14· ·except educate, deal with collaborations and those kinds of 15· ·things and stress reuse and show people how to actually get 16· ·to that point. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· May I ask a question 18· ·from my own personal use?· How about those baskets that they 19· ·have in grocery stores to put plastic bags in, which are 20· ·allegedly going to be recycled?· Is that a useful thing to 21· ·do? 22· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Well, you have to think about 23· ·what happens to those plastic bags. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· What does happen? 25· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· So any time you try to use ·1· ·plastic for something but to crochet into some mat, you're ·2· ·heating it up, and heating plastic -- it off-gases ·3· ·chemicals.· That's not good.· And, yes, they're making new ·4· ·kinds of plastic, and we have -- the situation is evolving. ·5· · · · · · · · · There will be plastic that can perhaps ·6· ·get -- I don't know -- eaten up and be part of the ·7· ·environment.· But, honestly, wouldn't you just rather not ·8· ·have all this stuff?· Wouldn't you rather just train ·9· ·everybody to use less stuff? 10· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· This is one way we can try and do 12· ·that.· And we do have many, many businesses and entities in 13· ·New Haven that are giving away reusable bags.· Like, Cornell 14· ·Hill Scott Health Center is giving them away and NHSWRA is 15· ·giving them away and many businesses.· And the New Haven 16· ·information, the tourist place, they are giving them away. 17· ·So you can get them. 18· · · · · · · · · If you go buying something, you can find -- 19· ·they probably have them piled behind the counter they can 20· ·dig out for you. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Adam? 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23· · · · · · · · · Thank you for this proposal.· I look forward 24· ·to hearing about it again when it goes before the 25· ·legislation committee or whatever committee.· I'll probably ·1· ·be on it. ·2· · · · · · · · · I have a couple questions.· I see that ·3· ·there's no separate definition section.· I see there is a ·4· ·definition, but I would just think it would be good to have ·5· ·a separate definition separate to be thorough in the ·6· ·definitions. ·7· · · · · · · · · For example, on page 3 of 6 of this staff ·8· ·report, which includes your language, you make mention of ·9· ·recycled paper checkout bag as defined above, but I haven't 10· ·actually seen what that definition is.· Maybe it's buried in 11· ·there, but I think when you have a separate section that 12· ·says "definitions," then it's more clear.· I think a 13· ·separate definition section is important. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Okay. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I can't find that recycled 16· ·paper checkout bag.· It may be in there. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· In the ordinance, it's section 18· ·C. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I think it's in the material 20· ·they gave us. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It may be whatever. 22· ·Obviously, I'm seeing the material that's folded into our 23· ·staff report.· Maybe it's in a different document. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Would you like to see a copy of 25· ·the ordinance? ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· It's in the ordinance.· It's ·2· ·submitted to the board. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Great.· I'm sure I'll see it ·4· ·there.· This may not be including everything.· But a ·5· ·separate definition section or a subsection within a section ·6· ·makes sense. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· Okay. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Then I'm wondering why not ·9· ·corn-derived bags. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Corn, did you say? 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Yes, I did. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· I think I just addressed that 13· ·when I explained to you that it's still plastic.· It's not 14· ·all corn.· At the moment -- well, my daughter, last summer, 15· ·did research when we went home from the Yale bookstore and 16· ·they said they were recyclable plastic bags, and apparently 17· ·at the time there was one anaerobic digester.· You have to 18· ·heat the bags up to a 140 degrees for ten days straight, and 19· ·they weren't looking for any more. 20· · · · · · · · · I understand now things are -- time is 21· ·marching on.· Things are marching on.· As I said, we don't 22· ·want -- we need people to get out of the habit of just using 23· ·things once and disposing of them.· We -- the landfills can 24· ·only hold so much.· We want to reeducate all of society not 25· ·to throw things out.· This is not a disposable society. ·1· ·It's not a disposable planet. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· What I've heard -- and I ·3· ·could be mistaken -- that some of those plastic bags that ·4· ·are made from plants and not hydrocarbons are actually ·5· ·biodegradable and will -- you don't have to put them in a ·6· ·furnace.· Obviously, they'll heat up if they're in the ·7· ·ground. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· Bringing us back to the state ·9· ·legislation, you may know that there was an extended 10· ·conversation about compostable bags.· Folks were advocating 11· ·that they be excluded from the state legislation, and there 12· ·was a lot of to and fro on that.· And I think the decision 13· ·that was made in Hartford is relevant here, and that is that 14· ·that technology is not quite ready for prime time.· It could 15· ·very well develop.· You know, that would be something I 16· ·think we want to keep track of going forward, that if there 17· ·is a mechanism for readily composting those bags where they 18· ·actually do get composted, that sounds like a good idea to 19· ·me.· But we're not there yet. 20· · · · · · · · · I think one thing is -- and Esther mentioned 21· ·this -- there's going to be this interplay between what's 22· ·happening here and what's happening at the state level and 23· ·we will learn from what's happening at the state level. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Are we missing some ·1· ·materials from here?· Because I'm just looking at page 2 ·2· ·ends with section 2 and then page 3 starts section C. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We're missing -- ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· We gave a summary. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All right.· We got ·6· ·the idea. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Why don't we pass this around so ·8· ·they can see the whole thing.· Why don't we pass this around ·9· ·so they can see one copy of the whole thing. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I would like to know what 11· ·I'm voting on. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Why?· That's an 13· ·unusual idea. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Not for me it's not. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I have a couple more, if I 16· ·may. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Go right 18· ·ahead. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So you mentioned before that 20· ·you were not dealing with the smaller apparently thinner 21· ·bags. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Produce bags.· Produce bags. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Why not? 24· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· I think both at the state 25· ·level and locally, people understand that there's a real ·1· ·need for those types of bag.· There really is not much of a ·2· ·plausible alternative, and we are trying to be practical ·3· ·here. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· We have to start somewhere. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· I mean, realistically, you ·6· ·need those bags in order to go grocery shopping, whereas you ·7· ·don't need the white plastic bags that you go and schlep the ·8· ·stuff into your house. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· We also wanted to focus on the 10· ·point of checkout, and that was the point we were focusing 11· ·on.· I mean, the idea is that when we are educating around 12· ·this issue, it does fall into broader context, of course, 13· ·because it's about how we live in our society and what do we 14· ·throw away or what do we learn to preserve and reuse.· You 15· ·know, I mean, we don't want to be just known as a throw-away 16· ·people or society. 17· · · · · · · · · So this is a way of engaging us in the 18· ·conversation, dealing with the point of checkout, which is a 19· ·single point of checkout, and dealing with how do we begin 20· ·to maybe educate, influence, and help and support behavioral 21· ·change that's positive. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So if I may, Mr. Chair, just 23· ·one last question. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Go ahead. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And then maybe a minor point. ·1· ·The last question is -- I just want to be clear.· I've read ·2· ·the language in the report.· It seems like your enforcement ·3· ·effort -- the enforcement effort that you're proposing is ·4· ·focused on the merchant and not on the consumer.· So it's ·5· ·not a crime for someone to be in possession of such a bag, ·6· ·but it is a violation of the ordinance for a merchant to ·7· ·offer it or to sell it and that you're going to have solid ·8· ·waste authority personnel enforcing it? ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· Okay.· Let me comment on the 10· ·enforcement. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And are they cool with that? 12· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· Let me comment on that. 13· · · · · · · · · We know that at some point we're going to 14· ·have to have some kind of check and balance.· That is 15· ·something that is a work in progress right now.· We 16· ·understand, though, that whatever conversation we have, the 17· ·Solid Waste Authority will be a part of that because it's 18· ·the entity in our city, you know, that deals with trash. 19· ·All right? 20· · · · · · · · · So that part hasn't been worked through and 21· ·out as specifically as we would like for it to be a year 22· ·after it's passed, but it's a conversation that we have 23· ·engaged and started.· But it's really a placeholder for the 24· ·most part because we haven't worked out the details around 25· ·that at this point. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Well, I appreciate your ·2· ·frankness about that.· I predict that my colleagues on the ·3· ·Board of Alders will be asking more questions about that. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· I have one comment about that. ·5· ·My hope is -- and maybe I'm just a cockeyed optimist -- that ·6· ·by the time we get there, we will have made it clear to ·7· ·everyone by our example, the example that all of us set by ·8· ·walking around with reusable bags, that that is what is ·9· ·expected if you live in New Haven, that you are part of the 10· ·solution and the solution is not to be using disposable 11· ·bags.· So, hopefully, we will not have too many people who 12· ·are trying to use plastic bags. 13· · · · · · · · · And for the people who need plastic bags for 14· ·other things, they have other avenues from which to purchase 15· ·them.· For instance, if you need them for a veteran's health 16· ·care, you can get them through the Veterans Affair.· If you 17· ·need them for medical purposes, you can get them as part of 18· ·medical supplies. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. ARMMAND:· I also want to say on 20· ·enforcement that's something that's going to have to be 21· ·worked out with the state to a certain degree in that they 22· ·also have passed something on plastic bags, and they are 23· ·saying that merchants can charge for those bags, you know, 24· ·at the time of checkout and two years down the road that 25· ·stores should not be giving plastic bags.· So there are many ·1· ·conversations around enforcement that must be had before an ·2· ·implementation plan is made. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Yeah.· I think we may have -- ·4· ·I may have colleagues who think that those conversations ·5· ·need to be had before we enshrine it in a final ordinance ·6· ·that's signed by the mayor.· But we'll get to that later. ·7· · · · · · · · · The last point I want to make -- and thank ·8· ·you for your patience, Mr. Chair -- is page 5 of 6.· It's ·9· ·section -- 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I think it's mislabeled. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Well, whatever section it 12· ·is -- it's G, subsection D.· You use the word "variance," 13· ·which is about asking the Board of Alders to grant someone a 14· ·further extension beyond the allowed extension.· I would 15· ·just want to check with corporation counsel if that's the 16· ·right verb or word to use because variance means something 17· ·particular in zoning and I don't know if we want variance in 18· ·an ordinance. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· I don't think we were 20· ·anticipating an referrals to the BZA. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Yeah.· So that's a word that 22· ·maybe aught to be -- there's probably a better alternative 23· ·for that. 24· · · · · · · · · Thank you, Mr. Chair. 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· I think it's ·1· ·time for me to hear a motion. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Mr. Chair, this is a public ·3· ·hearing item. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, okay.· Anybody ·5· ·want to speak about this?· Anybody want to speak about this ·6· ·ordinance, the plastic bag ordinance?· If not, I'll declare ·7· ·the public portion of this hearing closed, and now I'll hear ·8· ·a motion. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I would like to say 10· ·something, but I'm happy to move it first if you'll allow me 11· ·to say something briefly. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes.· You can do it 13· ·in either way. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Either way.· So let me say 15· ·something first.· Just to remind us of our purview, 16· ·obviously the ordinance amendment has to be publically heard 17· ·before the Board of Alders at the appropriate committee, and 18· ·the Board of Alders have to vote on it. 19· · · · · · · · · And so what we're doing is just saying from 20· ·the perspective of a comprehensive plan and land use and 21· ·development policy, this is a sensible positive thing to do, 22· ·or is there anything that conflicts between this ordinance 23· ·and the goals and visions of our comp plan.· So I think in 24· ·my role I'm happy to give it a favorable recommendation to 25· ·the board, but I don't want to signal to the makers that I'm ·1· ·done asking questions about the inner workings of the ·2· ·ordinance because I think there's a lot of questions to be ·3· ·asked.· And I may end up voting differently in that forum ·4· ·than I am here.· So I just wanted to say that. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Now do you want to ·6· ·make a motion? ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I move the item, Mr. Chair. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor. ·9· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 10· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· That's it. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Abstain. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We have an 13· ·abstention? 14· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yeah. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· One abstention. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I think these next 17· ·three items might be reasonably discussed together. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you.· That would be 19· ·great. 20· · · · · · · · · Mr. Chair, I'd like to suggest that the next 21· ·three items be heard together: Items 1558-11, 1558-12, and 22· ·1558-13, all relevant to a comprehensive zoning ordinance 23· ·text amendment. 24· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I'll pass it out.· The first ·1· ·five are in color, which will be easier for those voting ·2· ·members, but there's additional copies for reference. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Mr. Chair, before you -- for ·5· ·the record, Jenna Montesano, deputy director of zoning.· You ·6· ·can find me here at 165 Church Street in New Haven.· I have ·7· ·the distinct honor of presenting to you a comprehensive ·8· ·signage ordinance next amendment.· Apologies that my ·9· ·PowerPoint is behind you, but you also have the text in 10· ·front of you. 11· · · · · · · · · The goal here is, as it says on my cover 12· ·slide, consolidating, modernizing, and clarifying signage 13· ·for the city of New Haven.· So here is the content of the 14· ·presentation.· I'll provide a brief overview of the process 15· ·that we took to get here, the organization -- the key 16· ·features of the three sections of the ordinance for your 17· ·consideration, and then some elements of administration and 18· ·enforcement.· So first I'll go over the process.· I like to 19· ·think about the process as who, why, how, where, when, the 20· ·questions that you learn when you're in elementary school. 21· · · · · · · · · I already said who I am, but it's also 22· ·important to know that the sponsor of this ordinance is 23· ·Alder Furlow, who is here with us, and he really brought the 24· ·why to -- feel free to join, if you'd like. 25· · · · · · · · · Alder Furlow brought this issue to our ·1· ·attention mostly as a result of the billboard on Whalley ·2· ·Avenue. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Which predates me and my ·5· ·role here, but he briefed me on that issue.· And I really ·6· ·appreciate him bringing me into the working group that he ·7· ·put together on this issue. ·8· · · · · · · · · So the why for him was really that and some ·9· ·other community concerns that were brought to him by his 10· ·constituents.· There's also environmental considerations. 11· ·As the comprehensive plan states, we're concerned with 12· ·things like light pollution.· So that was a huge 13· ·consideration. 14· · · · · · · · · The City Plan Department has some concerns 15· ·about administration with the current signage regulations. 16· ·They're particularly hard for the average citizen to parse 17· ·out.· And we want to enable small business owners and the 18· ·like to know what's expected of them.· And the police 19· ·department had safety concerns.· So the working group that 20· ·was put together included representatives of all of the -- 21· ·you know, for all of those concerns. 22· · · · · · · · · So we had Alder Furlow with us.· We had 23· ·representation from Corporation Counsel and their wonderful 24· ·intern, Alyssa.· We had representatives from the police 25· ·department, the building department, and also a zoning ·1· ·enforcement officer, members of the Environmental Advisory ·2· ·Council, the City Plan Department represented by myself in ·3· ·the 11th hour, and Nate Hougrand, one of the planners at ·4· ·City Plan. ·5· · · · · · · · · After we put together this working group and ·6· ·a draft ordinance, we consulted our technical experts.· So ·7· ·this has been vetted by corporation counsel more once we had ·8· ·a draft going, outside attorneys that are dedicated members ·9· ·of this community, other members of City Plan Department, 10· ·including project managers and the like who are more 11· ·intimately familiar with the process.· You all know Anne 12· ·Hartjen, who chimed in on this.· So we consulted with those 13· ·who know better or know more or different than the working 14· ·group itself. 15· · · · · · · · · So when we put together this group, it 16· ·really led us to deciding to do comprehensive sign and 17· ·lighting ordinance reform and not just focusing on the 18· ·electronic billboards but really treating this 19· ·comprehensively.· Alder Furlow was really generous in 20· ·allowing me to take a stab at drafting all of them, which is 21· ·great. 22· · · · · · · · · So the what.· The what is three 23· ·communications to the Board of Alders.· It's going to create 24· ·a new Section 60.3, where all signage regulations will live. 25· ·That's going to include dynamic displays, which is the ·1· ·defined term that we created for these electronic ·2· ·billboards, as well as an updated existing Section 61 for ·3· ·exterior lighting. ·4· · · · · · · · · So now for the where.· I'm going to show you ·5· ·a visual that I think makes this easier.· So here is the ·6· ·current table of contents when you go on to Municode and ·7· ·look at the zoning ordinance.· So you'll see at the top we ·8· ·have Article 6, which is other districts, and this is where ·9· ·some of these requirements live, which is very confusing to 10· ·the general public. 11· · · · · · · · · So we're going to change the location of 12· ·where this thing lives because this isn't making a lot of 13· ·sense to our average consumer.· So we're going to insert a 14· ·new article here, which is going to be called "site 15· ·requirements," which we think makes a little bit more sense. 16· · · · · · · · · We'll amend Section 60.1 for exterior 17· ·lighting.· We're going to keep 60.2, reflective heat, add 18· ·the new signage section for 60.3, and then renumber this 19· ·administration article to a new Article 8.· So we tried to 20· ·pay attention to the organization of the ordinance.· It's 21· ·just -- it's long overdue.· So we think that's really going 22· ·to help. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Is there a new Article 7 24· ·then? 25· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· This will be new Article 7. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· This will be new Article 7? ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yes. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Okay. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So the first section is ·5· ·Section 60.1, which is exterior lighting.· So here are some ·6· ·features of this section.· So the first is to really clarify ·7· ·the statement of purpose and applicability.· So we have some ·8· ·questions sometimes that come to City Plan about what ·9· ·actually is captured by this ordinance.· So we're hoping 10· ·that by differentiating between real changes that are 11· ·captured by the ordinance and routine maintenance that we're 12· ·setting clear expectations for customers to know exactly 13· ·what it is that they -- when this section applies to them. 14· · · · · · · · · We also created more realistic design and 15· ·operational standards.· One thing you'll notice is that we 16· ·raised the level of permissible light trespass onto adjacent 17· ·property.· At first, Alder Furlow said, "Why are we -- are 18· ·we going in the wrong direction?" 19· · · · · · · · · And so what we learned from our City Plan 20· ·colleagues is that by creating zero lot line regulations 21· ·that don't allow any light trespass, it's suggesting that 22· ·people should fudge their photometric plans, and it's 23· ·producing unrealistic results.· And so we don't want people 24· ·fudging their numbers or failing to be able to continue to 25· ·see you for site plan review simply because the lot is too ·1· ·small and they can't completely eliminate their light ·2· ·pollution, their light spill onto their adjacent neighbor. ·3· ·So we're tolerating just a little tiny bit just to make it ·4· ·more realistic. ·5· · · · · · · · · We're providing increased review authority ·6· ·to the City Plan Commission.· That's all of you.· So you'll ·7· ·see throughout this section of the ordinance, it provides ·8· ·additional calls to you when you're looking at a site plan ·9· ·review as to what it is you're really supposed to be looking 10· ·at, which I hope will be clear for all of you during your 11· ·review process. 12· · · · · · · · · There's a couple other interesting and 13· ·modern things in here, such as regulating the color of light 14· ·to avoid blue light.· That's the highest pollutant of the 15· ·dark -- of dark night sky.· So we're going to reduce that. 16· · · · · · · · · Otherwise, the exemptions and the 17· ·definitions remain largely unchanged.· Some of the defined 18· ·terms that are original were produced by our -- by 19· ·corporation counsel intern Alyssa, who worked really hard at 20· ·learning some of that technical language.· You'll see those 21· ·there. 22· · · · · · · · · The next section is 60.3.· This is the 23· ·comprehensive signage provision.· So, again, we're stating a 24· ·really concise applicability statement.· You'll note -- I 25· ·don't know what page I'm on.· It's the first page of 60.3. ·1· ·We've included a broader purpose statement that really ·2· ·captures more of the concerns of the community, promoting ·3· ·health, safety, and welfare, reducing traffic and pedestrian ·4· ·hazards, promoting economic development, protecting property ·5· ·values, a nod to multimodal transportation, which is a ·6· ·really important thing in the city right now. ·7· · · · · · · · · So I think our purpose statement is clearer ·8· ·and then our applicability statement is also clearer.· So it ·9· ·tells you when you're proposing new signage and when you're 10· ·proposing renovated signage that may be tolerated and you 11· ·don't come back to City Plan. 12· · · · · · · · · We've retained separate design requirements 13· ·for residential and commercial zones.· This is true to the 14· ·current zoning.· They just live in very different sections 15· ·of the ordinances, so we've united them here but still treat 16· ·them differently, recognizing that they have really 17· ·important differences. 18· · · · · · · · · We've restated and clarified the size and 19· ·number requirements.· It's not really going to be that big 20· ·of a change from what is currently permitted, but what is 21· ·going to be clearer is how to do the math, which is going to 22· ·make our review at City Plan easier and your review easier 23· ·should you have a sign application before you, which brings 24· ·me to one of my next points, which is that it authorizes the 25· ·City Plan Commission to have purview over signage. ·1· · · · · · · · · We really think that this is a planning ·2· ·function, and we've had a lot of current conversations with ·3· ·this commission about their really important role as a ·4· ·planning body.· And signage is directly going to impact what ·5· ·our city looks like. ·6· · · · · · · · · And so you'll see in the use table that ·7· ·special permits are one of the ways in which you could get ·8· ·some of these sign types.· So without belaboring this too ·9· ·much, I'll move on to the use table.· So here is the use 10· ·table.· You'll see the zones run across the top and the 11· ·types run down.· "X" is not permitted.· "R" is as of right. 12· ·"SP" is special permit.· "SE" is special exemption. 13· · · · · · · · · You'll note that where things require some 14· ·level of review, they are special permits before you all, 15· ·again emphasizing that planning role of this particular 16· ·body.· I'd love, as you guys digest this, more feedback on 17· ·this particular thing because it's really going to impact 18· ·what kind of signage we see and what kind of applications 19· ·you see. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Jenna -- 21· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yes. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- could you say a little bit 23· ·more about why special permit and not special exception, why 24· ·City Plan and not BZA? 25· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sure.· So, first, I really ·1· ·think the sign -- that signage, because it impacts directly ·2· ·what the city looks like, is more of a planning function. ·3· ·It goes better with site plan review. ·4· · · · · · · · · Right now you'll see -- you know, actually, ·5· ·there's that category on your reports for site plan review ·6· ·that says "signage," and usually what comes after it is ·7· ·something like, you know, "TBD." ·8· · · · · · · · · What we'd like to have happen is for this to ·9· ·really be an integral part of the design of a site, and that 10· ·would be part of the review that you all would have.· And it 11· ·might not create additional workload or the back and forth 12· ·that might require more than one-month process. 13· · · · · · · · · So I think it's streamlined.· I think it 14· ·makes sense from a planning perspective.· But, you know, I'd 15· ·obviously love your thoughts if you feel differently or if 16· ·any one or more of these should be changed to special 17· ·exception.· It doesn't all have to come here. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· On our handouts, we have 19· ·asterisks on some of the items that are not up there -- 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sure. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- that were added. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But there's no reference to 24· ·what those asterisks -- that reference seems to be crossed 25· ·out. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sure.· Yeah.· So let me ·2· ·speak to the red line that you have there. ·3· · · · · · · · · So the -- what's not red lined is what is ·4· ·currently communicated to the Board of Alders.· And since ·5· ·then, this has been vetted by all those technical experts I ·6· ·mentioned earlier.· And I've woven in a lot of feedback from ·7· ·those individuals.· And one of the comments that I got was ·8· ·that those asterisks might be confusing because that was ·9· ·going to be a cross-reference to a different section of the 10· ·ordinance that's not even in the zoning ordinance. 11· · · · · · · · · Should that change, we wouldn't want to then 12· ·make our zoning ordinance outdated.· And so really what that 13· ·asterisk was getting at is that when something projects over 14· ·the public right of way, no longer is it a zoning issue; 15· ·it's a Board of Alders issue.· But, instead, in our typical 16· ·course of business, we would advise individuals if they've 17· ·presented a sign package that requires Board of Alder 18· ·approval because it's no longer within our jurisdiction here 19· ·at City Plan. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· But why would that 21· ·not be referenced -- I don't know -- with some kind of 22· ·language in here? 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· It certainly could be. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Usually, when I see an 25· ·asterisk, I'm looking for something, what is it referring ·1· ·to. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· The intention was to strike ·3· ·all the asterisks.· But if you think that that's an ·4· ·important reference to add back, that certainly could be ·5· ·part of your vote.· And we can make sure that's communicated ·6· ·to the Board of Alders. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Why did you decide to ·8· ·move it to the Board of Alders? ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That's actually current 10· ·operation under -- Alder Marchand might be able to speak 11· ·more clearly to that.· Is it in the charter, I believe, that 12· ·once it's in the public right of way -- I think it's 3 feet 13· ·into the public right of way -- it requires approval of the 14· ·Board of Alders. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· That explains 16· ·it. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I'm glad. 18· · · · · · · · · Should I proceed? 19· · · · · · · · · So, lastly, I thought I would be -- I 20· ·debated putting this picture on here, but I thought I would 21· ·be remiss not to.· So there it is, the dynamic display that 22· ·prompted -- 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Not very dynamic. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I thought we would tone it 25· ·down just a little for the presentation. ·1· · · · · · · · · So what we did with this section is we ·2· ·defined dynamic displays and distinguished them from ·3· ·directly illuminated signs.· That is a term that currently ·4· ·exists in our zoning ordinance, and those are the kinds that ·5· ·are lit from within, with light bulbs and things like that. ·6· ·That's not going to fall in this section. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Like the Shubert. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Right.· Right.· These are ·9· ·going to be those giant TVs basically, our dynamic displays. 10· · · · · · · · · So what we did is we defined them clearly. 11· ·We gave them their own section.· And then we assigned some 12· ·performance and operational standards to them.· They can't 13· ·be animated.· They can't blink.· You know, they need to stay 14· ·on one screen for a certain period of time before moving to 15· ·the next one.· There's brightness requirements.· There are 16· ·required safety features, such as should the device 17· ·malfunction, it automatically shuts off, things like that 18· ·that are really a concern from a public safety perspective. 19· · · · · · · · · Also, importantly we put in this section 20· ·that individuals currently in possession of said dynamic 21· ·displays do not have a vested right to keep their brightness 22· ·or other operational standards.· You're entitled -- it's 23· ·grandfathered in to your height and your size, but you 24· ·aren't entitled to that brightness.· And there is some law 25· ·to support that, so that was important language. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· There better be. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah.· That was important ·3· ·language for the community, and that is a feature of this ·4· ·ordinance.· We also distinguished sports arena lighting and ·5· ·signage simply because we didn't want it to get eliminated ·6· ·or limited by function of this.· So you'll see that that's ·7· ·broken out. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So, for example, at Reese ·9· ·Field, where Yale holds its soccer and lacrosse matches, 10· ·they just got a new jumbotron, which is enormous.· It's 11· ·pretty far from the street, but it's really big.· This 12· ·ordinance wouldn't deal with that? 13· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· It's actually in a separate 14· ·section within this that allows for different size and 15· ·doesn't require that same property line brightness.· So you 16· ·would still need to submit a photometric plan, still need to 17· ·be a certain size, things of that nature, have some of the 18· ·safety features, but it just treats them a little 19· ·differently because of where they're usually positioned. 20· · · · · · · · · I'd actually be interested in this board's 21· ·thoughts on -- there's actually a blank still in the 22· ·ordinance of what size is appropriate for the max for 23· ·sports, those big jumbotrons or what have you. 24· · · · · · · · · So that's going to need to be filled in at 25· ·some point between the submission and when it goes to the ·1· ·Board of Alders.· That's a little bit -- we just want to ·2· ·make sure it's the right size, we're not permitting ·3· ·something too big for this city. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· As you are fully ·5· ·aware, that sign on Whalley Avenue drives people mad. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yes. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· It's also a serious ·8· ·safety hazard.· So how is it that in the new ordinance, ·9· ·similar things will not happen and maybe eventually we could 10· ·deal with these folks? 11· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sure.· So the way this -- so 12· ·for -- outside of this one, looking forward, future digital 13· ·signs are going to need to comply with the size requirements 14· ·otherwise set out in Section 60.3. 15· · · · · · · · · So if you're doing a wall sign that's 16· ·dynamic, it has to comply with the size for that.· If you're 17· ·doing a pole sign, it has to comply with the size for that, 18· ·et cetera. 19· · · · · · · · · But it must be equipped with all the safety 20· ·features of this section and the brightness requirements of 21· ·this section and if you're abutting a residential zone, less 22· ·light pollution, all of the other operations that we like 23· ·about the current ordinance that are woven into this new 24· ·one. 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So if, let's say, we ·1· ·could go back and affect that particular sign, how would it ·2· ·change?· What would happen? ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· As this board knows, they ·4· ·have an existing right -- ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes, yes, yes. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· -- to continue that ·7· ·particular size and height. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· But this ordinance suggests 10· ·that you don't have a vested right in the brightness or how 11· ·many times it changes in a minute or all of those things. 12· · · · · · · · · So if this billboard is manufacturally sound 13· ·and can comply, they can continue.· But if they don't have 14· ·all those safety features, they're going to have to replace 15· ·it with something that can. 16· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes.· Well, how much 17· ·smaller would it be than the one they have now? 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· They have a -- they're going 19· ·to have a grandfathered right to that size and height 20· ·unfortunately.· But future ones that are built will have to 21· ·be smaller than that. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· I think it's good to note, if 23· ·I'm correct -- 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sure. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· And if it's not, then we'll ·1· ·have to add it in legislation. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· But these signs are not a use ·4· ·anymore in our city, this particular sign. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Because it's the big -- ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· This off-premise sign, what was ·7· ·once called off-premise signed, is no longer a permitted use ·8· ·in our city. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We took it out. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· Yeah.· It was taken out and 11· ·then this ordinance also corrects it because it wasn't 12· ·recorded properly in our records. 13· · · · · · · · · I also should state as the alder that has 14· ·this sign, this legislation is not targeting that sign.· And 15· ·so I want that to be clear.· We're not creating something 16· ·that is targeting one sign on one street. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· No. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· But what this sign did was it 19· ·prompted discussion on something that is missing in our 20· ·ordinance because we had nothing that dealt with -- 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· This kind of sign. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· -- this digital sort of 23· ·display.· And so I just wanted to make that clear.· I think 24· ·that's important. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah.· We're moving into the ·1· ·21st century here. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· Right, right. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So it was a good discussion ·4· ·point.· It got us here before you. ·5· · · · · · · · · So, lastly, administration and enforcement. ·6· ·This ordinance globally requires the applicant to ·7· ·demonstrate compliance with design and performance ·8· ·guidelines.· It's not our job to try to figure that out. ·9· ·They have to show it through a lighting plan that's become 10· ·required and is clearly defined. 11· · · · · · · · · So we're hoping that that's going to make 12· ·review easier and enforcement easier because we're going to 13· ·have better records.· As Alder Furlow indicated, that hasn't 14· ·always been the case because the current ordinance doesn't 15· ·require it.· So that's a great feature. 16· · · · · · · · · Next, we've retained the modified variance 17· ·standards under the current signage regulations, recognizing 18· ·that there's not really a hardship when you're going for a 19· ·sign variance.· And so we've just kept that exactly the 20· ·same.· If you want a sign variance because we've not allowed 21· ·a typical -- a certain type of sign where you want to put 22· ·one, you can always go to the BZA and ask for a variance, 23· ·but the standards are very clearly laid out. 24· · · · · · · · · Outside of going to the BZA for relief, 25· ·we've created a pathway via a special permit.· And that's ·1· ·going to bring those applications here most likely in ·2· ·connection with a site plan application.· So just like ·3· ·you're accustomed to hearing a special permit and a site ·4· ·plan now, that will continue to be the case. ·5· · · · · · · · · We've provided more definitions and sign ·6· ·types, whereas right now there is non-illuminated, directly ·7· ·illuminated, and indirectly illuminated, no matter where you ·8· ·put them.· There's some nods to pole signs and wall signs, ·9· ·but otherwise there's not very many types.· This sets out 10· ·very clear expectations, very clear definitions.· You know 11· ·exactly what you're applying for.· And we, the city, know 12· ·exactly what somebody is going to place where.· When they 13· ·apply for their sign permit, we'll know. 14· · · · · · · · · We've defined and limited temporary signs. 15· ·I've heard from -- when we consulted with different experts, 16· ·I've heard from some of the LCI neighborhood specialists a 17· ·concern that businesses put up temporary signs and then 18· ·never take them down or plaster a bunch of posters and never 19· ·take them down.· What this does is define temporary signs 20· ·and puts a limit on how long they can be up.· So that will 21· ·give the city some ability to make sure that those things 22· ·are replaced with better signage after 40 days. 23· · · · · · · · · And just generally, clearer regulations are 24· ·easier to enforce.· So we're hoping that because this is 25· ·just generally clearer and better defined, it will make the ·1· ·sign permitting process easier to navigate and the zoning ·2· ·enforcement officer's job easier and our signs around the ·3· ·city be attractive and reflect what we want to see. ·4· · · · · · · · · With that, I'm happy to take further ·5· ·questions. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· So I have a question going ·7· ·back to exterior lighting. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sure. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· I saw that in our advisory 10· ·report, it's pretty clear about the change in the permanent 11· ·light at the property boundary, but I wanted to -- I 12· ·couldn't find it in the actual draft ordinance that you gave 13· ·us.· I was wondering if you could point us to where -- like, 14· ·where that revision was made. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sure. 16· · · · · · · · · If you go to -- it's on the second page, 17· ·letter "G," maximum light levels, romanette i.· Maximum 18· ·light levels at any point on the property line cannot exceed 19· ·.1 foot-candle within or adjacent to a property with a 20· ·residential use or .2 when adjacent to all other properties. 21· ·So right now it's zero abutting residential. 22· · · · · · · · · Is it -- Giovanni, is it higher for -- 23· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· No.· It's zero abutting 24· ·residential uses.· And I do want to commend my colleagues in 25· ·City Plan on addressing this issue in particular as someone ·1· ·that is both on the commission and also brings stuff to the ·2· ·commission.· And I'm the poor slob in the engineering ·3· ·department that does photometric plans as well.· It is ·4· ·actually rather impossible to, for example, light the ice ·5· ·ring parking lot because it is right next to residential ·6· ·use.· We would either have to give up like 30 feet of ·7· ·parking lot and 40 spaces or there's basically no way for us ·8· ·to comply without a variance. ·9· · · · · · · · · And that's why you did not see a lighting 10· ·plan.· We may still, depending on timing, have to get a 11· ·variance or this passes.· And so I think this is much more 12· ·realistic way of lighting it.· I did also -- staff was very 13· ·nice and pointed out some other uses that -- some other uses 14· ·that had that same restriction and that appeared to have met 15· ·that restriction.· I drove by at least one of them at night. 16· ·They clearly did not make that restriction.· And then going 17· ·back and looking at their plan -- well, let's just say it 18· ·was interesting. 19· · · · · · · · · So I think this is a much more realistic way 20· ·of handling that issue of light trespass on property lines 21· ·and one that is also much more verifiable and doesn't drive 22· ·people to photoshopping their photometric plans with zeros 23· ·and stuff like that. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So just to be clear, a 25· ·layman's explanation of what a foot-candle is.· Is it like ·1· ·the measurement of one foot? ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· No.· A foot-candle -- oh, gosh. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I tried to google, but ·4· ·it didn't -- ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· It's a measurement of light ·6· ·intensity at a certain location.· So if you have a little ·7· ·light meter that has a light detector and you put it on the ·8· ·floor, which we have one of them, it will give you -- it ·9· ·will spit out a reading in foot-candles.· I have to look up 10· ·the exact definition of a foot-candle and how it's derived. 11· · · · · · · · · There are actually better lighting level 12· ·units that are derived from the SI system that are much 13· ·better, but in the U.S. we still use foot-candles.· And it's 14· ·quite the rabbit hole to go down on lighting units, but it's 15· ·basically an intensity of light. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· With a certain amount of 17· ·distance or something like that or just the intensity? 18· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· It's at certain places.· So, for 19· ·example, you are required by the ordinance for a parking 20· ·lot, for example, that's at the level of the ground.· You 21· ·know, inside a -- if you're doing lighting levels inside a 22· ·meeting room or something like that, it's often at the level 23· ·of the table.· And there are standards of where you measure 24· ·that, but it's an intensity at a certain spot. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· It has nothing to do ·1· ·with where that light -- your light on your property bleeds ·2· ·over to lighting up my property? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Well, what we're saying is ·4· ·measured at the property line. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yes. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I think it's on the ground at the ·7· ·property line in this ordinance. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Correct. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You can't have an intensity over 10· ·either .1 or .2 of a foot-candle, which is quite low. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· On your property line or on 12· ·the adjacent property line? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· At the line. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· The line is the joining of the 15· ·two. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· That's explanation 17· ·enough.· Thank you.· Foot-candle. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I do want to ask you 19· ·not because I want to focus on that horrible sign, but if 20· ·there is a sign which itself, maybe because of its location 21· ·or whatever, really presents a safety hazard, as I believe 22· ·this one does, what -- how does that work?· How are we -- 23· ·how can we -- that's sort of a separate -- it meets the 24· ·rules, but it's a safety hazard. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So the working group wanted ·1· ·to make sure that there was that appropriate level of review ·2· ·for that exact reason. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So the group consensus was ·5· ·to make all dynamic displays be by special permit. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, good. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· None of them can be built ·8· ·without them coming to see you first.· So you would be able ·9· ·to, in your purview and special permit criteria, review each 10· ·of those for all the special permit criteria.· And, of 11· ·course, this commission can always consider the health, 12· ·safety, and welfare of the citizens of New Haven in their 13· ·review. 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Good.· But we're 15· ·stuck with this one. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· We'll talk offline about that. 17· ·That's not what we're -- that's not part of this. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· That's true. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· I don't want to make comments 20· ·on that. 21· · · · · · · · · Just as a final comment, I want to thank 22· ·Deputy Director Montesano.· This -- the process -- and also 23· ·Laura Cahn from the environmental advisory.· The work that 24· ·was put in to this is absolutely incredible and it's a -- 25· ·there are amendments that I am excited about because this ·1· ·addresses the livability of our city.· And whenever we ·2· ·create amendments or make amendments or create legislation, ·3· ·we have to have a view of what this is going to look like ·4· ·20, 30-plus years down the road.· So it's not something -- ·5· ·this is not something to get back at anyone or to just make ·6· ·a quick fix. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah, right. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· But we have to do something ·9· ·that's intelligent and that our residents will look at.· You 10· ·know, today I saw a sign on a bus that advertised Hennessey 11· ·liquor on one of our city buses or state buses.· And I 12· ·thought, wow, this is -- it's an expression of speech, but 13· ·do we have a right also to have -- do we have a right to 14· ·monitor what becomes public for us to look at and what our 15· ·children are also exposed to publicly?· And I think that we 16· ·as legislators also have that responsibility.· It's not a 17· ·limitation of speech, but it's just where the speech should 18· ·go. 19· · · · · · · · · And so with this, with the light pollution 20· ·and things that are going on, which is how we're able to 21· ·address this, with the bright lights, what do we want our 22· ·city to look like in 10, 15, 20 years?· This is a small city 23· ·that can very easily look like 42nd Street with all the 24· ·signs and lights, which would have a direct effect on our 25· ·health, on our wellbeing, not just with flashing lights, but ·1· ·just in our mental wellbeing of always having things ·2· ·flashing and these images going into our consciousness, ·3· ·telling us what to do and what to buy. ·4· · · · · · · · · The minimizing of our green space as these ·5· ·signs just become so -- I think this is a good start.· And ·6· ·so I want to commend Deputy Director Montesano for this and ·7· ·spearheading this because it's a big project and not only ·8· ·that, but it's something that maybe not everyone is going to ·9· ·agree with. 10· · · · · · · · · But, again, I want to say on the record, 11· ·Mr. Chair, this is our city.· And we have a right to 12· ·regulate what we look at and how it's addressed here.· And 13· ·today is my birthday. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Happy birthday, Alder 15· ·Furlow. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· 35 again. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. FURLOW:· 35 again, yes. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Well, I would say I 19· ·have just read through this fully for the first time, but 20· ·the level of detail and the thoughtfulness is astounding 21· ·really.· I think it is going to be a monument to the people 22· ·who worked on it because other people are going to copy it 23· ·because I've seen other light, you know, ordinances from 24· ·around because I'm very concerned about this and they're 25· ·vague and they're -- you know, you can't quite tell how they ·1· ·apply to what situations.· So this is so much on a higher ·2· ·level.· Other people will steal it, and more power to them. ·3· · · · · · · · · Yes, Mr. Alderman. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Thank you, Mr. Chair. ·5· · · · · · · · · Thank you both for your work and for all of ·6· ·your collaborators.· This is good to see the fruit of all ·7· ·this labor. ·8· · · · · · · · · You're right, Alder Furlow.· We do have a ·9· ·responsibility to regulate and do what's best for the city. 10· ·This is moving us in a really positive direction.· I would 11· ·be happy to recommend that my colleagues support a positive 12· ·report to go to the Board of Alders on this item. 13· · · · · · · · · I wanted to ask a quick technical question. 14· ·I notice that on two of the three staff reports, there's a 15· ·sentence that mentions the City Plan Commission notes that 16· ·the definitions for this section are found at the end of 17· ·60.3 and if that section is not approved, the definitions 18· ·should be added to this section to complete it. 19· · · · · · · · · Does that basically mean, like, this report 20· ·is the one that contains the definitions and if you don't 21· ·approve this report, then you should take those definitions 22· ·and put them on these reports? 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That's correct.· So 24· ·because -- for ease of the Board of Alders' level, we broke 25· ·this into three communications.· But the definition for all ·1· ·signage lives at the very back. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So if we approve all three ·3· ·reports, we could keep that language or not keep that ·4· ·sentence? ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Correct.· Right.· It's just ·6· ·to remind you all and when the Board of Alders sees your ·7· ·recommendation that it's very important that should the ·8· ·dynamic display ordinance not pass that those definitions ·9· ·somehow make their way -- 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· To the end of the report? 11· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· If it doesn't pass, 13· ·I'm moving to Milford. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· They have a lot more. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So do we want to give the 16· ·public? 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, yes.· This is 18· ·also. 19· · · · · · · · · All right.· Who wants to speak about this 20· ·ordinance? 21· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· We do. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· While they're coming up, I just 23· ·wanted to reiterate what you said about collaboration with 24· ·our friends at City Plan.· You guys went above and beyond to 25· ·make sure you got input from your fellow departments, ·1· ·chasing me down.· I appreciate that.· I know it took me ·2· ·while to get to it, but really thank you very much.· And I ·3· ·hope this is a start of a lot of collaboration. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you, Giovanni. ·5· ·Likewise. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Names and addresses for the ·7· ·record, please. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. FAYE:· Kathy Faye, 61 Springside Avenue, ·9· ·member of the Environmental Advisory Council. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Laura Cahn, 54 Cleveland Road, 11· ·Environmental Advisory Council. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· And Kevin McCarthy, 171 13· ·Bradley Street, Environmental Advisory Council. 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· In the interest of 15· ·the fact that none of us have had our dinner, please don't 16· ·repeat what we've already heard. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Don't worry.· We will be brief. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. FAYE:· So we have a letter.· It's very 19· ·brief. 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. FAYE:· And it's dated today. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Just read the text. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. FAYE:· Dear Chairman Mattison, the 24· ·Environmental Advisory Council strongly supports the updates 25· ·to the lighting and zoning ordinances.· We thank Alder ·1· ·Richard Furlow for assembling a team to address this issue ·2· ·and shepherding everyone through the process of updating ·3· ·ordinances that were written before current technology for ·4· ·lighting and signs existed.· We look forward to energy ·5· ·savings, reduced light pollution and trespass, and less ·6· ·electronic waste in New Haven.· Sincerely, the New Haven ·7· ·Environmental Advisory Council. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Thank you. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· So I'll just add that you know 10· ·these things are made up of tiny little light bulbs, all 11· ·these digital signs, even the open/close signs in stores, 12· ·which used to be pieces of paper that had "open" on one side 13· ·and "close" on the other.· And now everything is tiny little 14· ·light bulbs and they don't last long and they all end up 15· ·somewhere.· And it's techno waste.· So thank you for 16· ·everything you do to prevent that from more than we need 17· ·here.· Thank you. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. McCARTHY:· As some of you may know, I 19· ·was a staffer at the legislature for 30 years.· In 20· ·situations like this, a member would get up and say, "Good 21· ·bill.· Ought to pass." 22· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· You know, one of these digital 23· ·signs burned in Times Square last month and it wasn't even 24· ·that hot, so yeah. 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Thank you. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. CAHN:· Thank you so much.· Thank you, ·2· ·Richard. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Is there anybody else ·4· ·who wants to testify to this matter?· If not, we will ·5· ·rapidly move on to the next item, which is -- ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Would you like to declare the ·7· ·public hearing closed on this? ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes.· I declare this ·9· ·public hearing closed and -- yes? 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I move the 11· ·items -- I move -- do you want to say something before? 12· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· May I suggest that in your 13· ·motion should you agree with the redlined version, which is 14· ·going to be minor edits to the current version at the Board 15· ·of Alders, that the motion include as present -- the motion 16· ·include moving it as presented this evening. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And is there not also an 18· ·empty space you're asking us to fill, or is that -- we can 19· ·just leave it to the board to fill that space? 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I suppose you can leave it 21· ·to the board.· We're also going to work together to 22· ·hopefully fill it, you know, when we get there. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· As a red line. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I move items ·1· ·1558-11, -12, -13, and the version of the language that was ·2· ·presented tonight, including the red additions and ·3· ·deletions. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Anybody want ·5· ·to say anything?· If not, all in favor? ·6· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Passed. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you very much. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Thank you for 10· ·shepherding this through.· We've talked about it so many 11· ·times.· It seemed like such a huge amount of work.· Nobody 12· ·wanted to do it. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So that closes the public 14· ·hearing. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I was really very fortunate 16· ·to having Alder Furlow's dedication and support to the 17· ·issue. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, yes. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Back to the top of our 20· ·agenda. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· If it suits you. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We should do it. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· 1556-04, 58 Fountain Street. 24· ·They have requested no action. 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· That's already tabled. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· And it's already tabled. I ·3· ·suppose we don't need another motion. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· No. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· No, we don't. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Okay.· 1557-01, 345 East ·7· ·Shore Parkway.· This is an application for a site plan, ·8· ·coastal site plan.· I believe -- ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Anybody here for 10· ·that? 11· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I believe they requested 12· ·this be tabled also but I'm -- 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So I'll hear a motion 14· ·to table. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· It's already tabled. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Oh, it is? 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· It's already tabled. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Oh, it is already tabled. I 19· ·apologize.· They must want to keep it on the table. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Stay tabled. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Great. 22· · · · · · · · · 1498-05R, 210 Hamilton Street.· This is an 23· ·application for a site plan review for the construction of 24· ·phase 2A and 2B of Farnum Courts. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Which is this big thing. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Here it is right ·2· ·here.· We've got a map. ·3· · · · · · · · · Gentlemen, would you introduce yourselves, ·4· ·including your address. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Ed LaChance, vice president ·6· ·of development for the Housing Authority of New Haven. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· Michael Southam, construction ·8· ·manager, Elm City Communities, Housing Authority of New ·9· ·Haven. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Joseph Lenahan, professional 11· ·engineer with Fuss & O'Neill, 56 Quarry Road, Trumbull, 12· ·Connecticut. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· So we're very excited to be 15· ·with you tonight.· We're presenting the final round, final 16· ·phase of Farnum Courts development.· Farnum Courts is our 17· ·largest family development that's located between Grand 18· ·Avenue and 91 in the Wooster area of New Haven. 19· · · · · · · · · Phase 1, which was the southern third of the 20· ·site, was previously -- the units were -- the residents were 21· ·relocated and units were demolished and we constructed two 22· ·mid-rise buildings with approximately 94 units.· It was 23· ·completed late last year, and we're here today to talk about 24· ·the phase 2, the northern two-thirds of the development. 25· ·What we're calling phase 2A is the middle section and ·1· ·comprises now of four buildings. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· 45 units. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· And phase 2B is six buildings ·4· ·plus the community center in the center portion with a -- ·5· ·also with a playground and open space in the center. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· What I want to show you is in ·7· ·front of you you'll see actually we were here in front of ·8· ·this commission back in October of 2014 when we had received ·9· ·the entire phase 1/phase 2 site development plans, which we 10· ·received approval at that time. 11· · · · · · · · · Since that point in time, we had gone back 12· ·for administrative reviews, specifically for just buildings 13· ·A and B.· And I brought these two comparisons so you can see 14· ·primarily the fact that since October 2014 to 2019, 15· ·substantially, you know, the overall design has not changed. 16· ·There's been some -- you know, some changes overall, just 17· ·minor, in fact.· And the key thing to see is the fact 18· ·that -- and I have some renderings here of buildings, which 19· ·you can see, is that overall development itself takes into 20· ·consideration the fact that we've got dilapidated buildings 21· ·from the Housing Authority.· They systemically have been 22· ·relocating the residents. 23· · · · · · · · · Right now we have just a few buildings out 24· ·the back that still need to be -- residents need to be 25· ·relocated, demolished, and then we can move forward.· And ·1· ·the key thing to understand is with 2A and 2B is based on ·2· ·money and the driver for that.· One of the key things to ·3· ·point out is that what we would like to do is -- through our ·4· ·phasing, we've provided within our set similar packages as ·5· ·we did in 2014. ·6· · · · · · · · · This identifies specifically the remaining ·7· ·buildings that are going to be demolished.· Currently, if ·8· ·you drive by Grand Avenue, you'll see building A and 2B and ·9· ·you'll see a large grass field and then some of these 10· ·buildings. 11· · · · · · · · · The key thing is the fact that we're going 12· ·to take those down and then rebuild.· And I think the 13· ·occupancy right now in phase 1 is -- 14· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· We only have two vacant units 15· ·right now. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Two vacant units out of 94 17· ·units.· It's amazing.· It's great actually.· One of the key 18· ·statistics is with phase 2A and 2B, we have a split between 19· ·the two bedrooms, the three bedrooms, the four bedrooms that 20· ·throughout are mixed.· They're all of the townhouse-style 21· ·apartments that you'll see here.· And it definitely will 22· ·enhance the livability of the area itself. 23· · · · · · · · · Just some of the renderings of the 24· ·architectural buildings that you can see.· I'm not sure if 25· ·you've been to the site and see the conditions that it's in, ·1· ·but it's a great improvement.· Key thing to recall through ·2· ·all of our design is that overall construction we're going ·3· ·to be increasing impervious area.· We are planting a lot ·4· ·more.· We're having -- the concrete sidewalks are all with ·5· ·solar reflectivity.· We're going to be maintaining the same ·6· ·light fixtures that we have on phase 1. ·7· · · · · · · · · All of the storm water drainage we're ·8· ·proposing here is going to be going through a infiltration ·9· ·system as well as water quality units, which today there's 10· ·nothing out there for the northern half.· Phase 2A does 11· ·incorporate all of those things. 12· · · · · · · · · Phase 1 includes a rain garden.· Phase 2, 13· ·besides infiltration and basin draining, include the 14· ·bioswales.· So we've got a lot of the LID features there 15· ·associated with this project. 16· · · · · · · · · A few things in regards to the community 17· ·area itself.· On an overall basis for bicycles, originally 18· ·all of the bicycles were part of the phase 1 with the 19· ·high-rises within the building as well as outside the 20· ·building. 21· · · · · · · · · The other buildings have individual 22· ·courtyards, but it was mentioned through some design review 23· ·meetings that we had.· We added bicycles specifically at the 24· ·field.· It's a nice little feature there.· Kids will be able 25· ·to ride their bikes, have functions.· They have some outdoor ·1· ·space.· They have a playground, a large field for ·2· ·multipurpose use.· Those are the key elements of the overall ·3· ·design. ·4· · · · · · · · · A lot of things you think of for life and ·5· ·safety, accordingly, is that we have developed in ·6· ·conjunction with the traffic department construction and ·7· ·staging plans that identify specifically the signage ·8· ·required to have residents as well as contractors work ·9· ·through the site, because we do have active residents living 10· ·up in front on phase 1. 11· · · · · · · · · And through six stages of development where 12· ·we've developed these plans so that you can ensure the fact 13· ·that over time that construction will follow through and the 14· ·contractor will be able, for instance, to reconstruct all of 15· ·Franklin Street, reconstruct all of Hamilton Street as part 16· ·of this project. 17· · · · · · · · · In addition, as a recommendation from the 18· ·design review, we have also added a sidewalk along the east 19· ·side of Hamilton, which currently there is a landscape 20· ·buffer within this area.· So on an overall basis, it's 21· ·really adding a lot of, you know, value and livability back 22· ·to this area. 23· · · · · · · · · Anything else, Michael or Ed, you'd like to 24· ·add? 25· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· The reason why it's being ·1· ·divided into two phases is really based on our funding ·2· ·needs.· We were awarded separate low-income housing tax ·3· ·credit awards for each phase, both under competitive rounds, ·4· ·one with CHFA, one with Department of Housing.· And they ·5· ·just require separate legal ownership. ·6· · · · · · · · · The Housing Authority is going to retain ·7· ·ownership of the land.· Glendower Group, which is the ·8· ·intermediary of the Housing Authority, is going to retain ·9· ·control of the tax credit entities.· So the Housing 10· ·Authority is not giving up any control. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· We do have funding for both. 12· ·So we expect them to be run back to back with very little 13· ·break.· If there's any break between the two, it will be 30 14· ·to 60 days only. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· How about the rental 16· ·levels?· Is it all going to be Housing Authority level, or 17· ·is there also going to be -- 18· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· There's a wide range of 19· ·incomes.· Because this is a RAD redevelopment approved by 20· ·HUD, the one thing we have to make sure is the existing 21· ·residents at Farnum have something reflective of the rents 22· ·they're paying now. 23· · · · · · · · · So, overall, there's going to be -- 88 out 24· ·of the 111 units will be affordable housing through the RAD 25· ·program.· The balance, the 23, will be affordable.· That's ·1· ·kind of broken up by phase.· Again, that's part of our ·2· ·funding process.· We have 20 percent market rate in each ·3· ·phase.· We're doing that for all of our developments now, ·4· ·including what we're about to close on tomorrow and the ·5· ·Westville that's come before you.· We try to structure ·6· ·20 percent market rate within.· So there will be a range. ·7· · · · · · · · · So the affordable -- the market rate will be ·8· ·about fair market rents.· The affordable will be a range ·9· ·based on low-income housing tax credit needs and past rental 10· ·levels from tenants. 11· · · · · · · · · And they'll be spread out.· There's not one 12· ·section that's going to be held for market.· They're spread. 13· ·All the units are the same.· Amenities are all the same. 14· ·You will not be able to tell which is which when you're 15· ·on-site. 16· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Adam? 17· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Thank you, Mr. Chair. 18· · · · · · · · · Could you just walk us through quickly the 19· ·traffic pattern in and out of the site once it's fully 20· ·built. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Once it's fully built? 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Yeah. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· So Franklin Street is A 24· ·Street.· Now, mind you, all these streets are going to be 25· ·different.· They're going to have real names.· We're going ·1· ·through that process right now.· So I'm going to just refer ·2· ·in terms of A Street and B Street. ·3· · · · · · · · · So off of Grand Ave., you can access the ·4· ·site through A Street.· From there, it will bring you either ·5· ·into the parking lots associated with phase 1, buildings A ·6· ·and B, or it will bring you through the network of streets ·7· ·between public and private throughout the entire ·8· ·development. ·9· · · · · · · · · And then Hamilton Street coming into Grand 10· ·Avenue is actually a full ingress/egress, and this is 11· ·light-controlled.· And working with the traffic department, 12· ·we're going to be proposing some off-site Grand Avenue 13· ·restriping with that.· We've already worked on the pedestal 14· ·for the pedestrian crossing specifically as part of phase 1. 15· · · · · · · · · So, overall, you have a continuous loop that 16· ·comes through here.· In addition to that, we have also 17· ·provided because there is a current easement for DOT in 18· ·order to access the 91 bridge as well as Amtrak in the back. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· How about leaving the 20· ·premises? 21· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Leaving the premises would be 22· ·through Hamilton Street.· So you will be leaving right at 23· ·the signalized intersection. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So the A Street is one-way 25· ·going in? ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Correct.· Up to this point. ·2· · · · · · · · · And then we've got two-way traffic ·3· ·throughout.· There's a combination between public roads and ·4· ·then private roads.· And we worked with engineering and DPW ·5· ·to differentiate the private roads and public roads by using ·6· ·the concrete aprons and having sidewalks take precedence ·7· ·across so they can differentiate it through maintenance and ·8· ·stuff like that. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So it's just that one segment 10· ·of A that is one-way? 11· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· That's correct. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And so if you're in the back 13· ·of the site and you're on the eastern side, which would be 14· ·A, you can go that way. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Correct. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And then you go down to go 17· ·across. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· And loop down. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I'm looking at the more 20· ·detailed plans because -- 21· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Very detailed. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- I can't quite see that 23· ·far.· Do I see speed humps here on Hamilton streets? 24· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· You do see speed humps. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Can you say a few things ·1· ·about the pedestrian safety features in this area? ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· So we actually have some ·3· ·raised crosswalks specifically within this location within ·4· ·the parking lot.· But the speed humps were a recommendation ·5· ·in order to ensure that there is no drag racing through that ·6· ·zone.· It was specific for Hamilton as well as D Street. ·7· ·This is not a -- these aren't raised crosswalks.· Those are ·8· ·just at grade. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It looks here from the plans 10· ·I'm looking at that the crosswalk is right next to the speed 11· ·hump but is not part of the speed hump. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· That is correct. 13· · · · · · · · · The addition of these crosswalks is because 14· ·from the original October 2014 program where there was a 15· ·vision of using totes for trash handling.· Coming through 16· ·management, it was not feasible.· There was meetings held 17· ·with waste management to determine what would be the most 18· ·appropriate way to handle the trash. 19· · · · · · · · · Currently, existing conditions, there's 20· ·three dumpsters that are within Hamilton and then there are 21· ·three or four dumpsters along Franklin that are just 22· ·basically strewn amongst the parking.· We provided basically 23· ·dumpster corrals, screened dumpster closures.· We provided 24· ·details for the screen there. 25· · · · · · · · · In addition to that, we're also providing as ·1· ·part of that as an alternate to have a yard drain with a ·2· ·deep sump, basically a trash hatch that's going to go into a ·3· ·dry well so that when we hose down these areas here, keep ·4· ·them clean, none of that is going to go down to the city ·5· ·systems. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And are residents going to be ·7· ·bringing their trash to those locations? ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Yes.· Residents will be split ·9· ·up between six locations for phase 2A and 2B.· All residents 10· ·with phase 1 use trash rooms and shoots within buildings. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· But the folks in phase 2A and 12· ·2B will have to walk across the street with their trash to 13· ·access these dumpsters? 14· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· That's correct.· Each one of 15· ·the dumpster enclosures does have handicap accessibility. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· We explored multiple options 17· ·for trash disposal.· This is literally the best we could 18· ·come up with for the kind of restrictions of the site.· The 19· ·first plan was to have everybody have a -- every unit to 20· ·have their own two totes, but the idea of having 230 totes, 21· ·it just was kind of -- 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· In terms of the trucks 23· ·getting in and out of the site? 24· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Some of the streets are 25· ·private streets, so the city couldn't pick those up.· So ·1· ·this we are paying for.· And, you know, we did not want to ·2· ·put any dumpster locations on the park.· It's going to be a ·3· ·beautiful park.· We didn't want to do that. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I see the logic to it. I ·5· ·just -- most people won't -- most folks don't want to cross ·6· ·the street to throw away their trash. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Currently, they do, though. ·8· ·So the residents who have been relocated back in are used to ·9· ·that process. 10· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· What are the -- how 11· ·is the trash -- in what kind of container is the trash moved 12· ·to the -- will be moved?· Are you giving them totes or 13· ·something? 14· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· No.· They're using their own 15· ·bags. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Six yard.· I can't remember 17· ·the size. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Walking with their bags? 19· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· There's a very nice 20· ·enclosure.· We're trying to make it visually appealing. 21· · · · · · · · · But those are in the plans -- correct? -- 22· ·the enclosure design? 23· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· The question is how are the 24· ·residents bringing their trash there. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· I'm sorry. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· They're bringing their bags of ·2· ·trash. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And recyclables too? ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Correct. ·5· · · · · · · · · Within each one, we've got -- you'll see a ·6· ·recyclable tote and then the trash dumpster. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I see the three locations. ·8· ·Where are they? ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· We've got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So if you live in the middle 11· ·near the back, you've got a block and a half to walk? 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· With a bag of trash. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· In the wintertime. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Fresh air. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I agree. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· 65 years old.· You need 17· ·another dumpster. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Part of the difficulty -- we 19· ·have a central location -- is trucks are not allowed to 20· ·block a city street, as well, so that kind of restricted 21· ·where we could put them. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Where they could come in an 23· ·get them.· Okay. 24· · · · · · · · · So those streets coming across, those are 25· ·private streets now? ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· No.· Well, whatever cross ·2· ·street -- ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Going from -- ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· These are public and these are ·5· ·private.· The little alleyways are private. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay, okay. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· It creates some sort of ·8· ·division, especially -- you know, you have an area here. ·9· ·Townhouse Alley it's currently called.· But having the 10· ·residents there with your front entries and then you have 11· ·the visibility, which is your accessible access.· That's 12· ·within the rear for each courtyard to get into each unit. 13· ·That's a requirement for CHFA per the design standards.· And 14· ·that kind of creates that little backyard sort of feeling. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· I can show -- we considered 16· ·dumpsters in these locations, here and here and here, but 17· ·the trucks will block the city streets, which is -- we can't 18· ·do.· Not allowed. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· I think what Ed was referring 20· ·to is we thought about certain things there.· They would be 21· ·on an angle so the trucks can come in and then make that 22· ·turn, but they would be blocking, you know, access.· These 23· ·here, they maintain the lane that they're in.· They can get 24· ·in.· They can back out within and maintain their lane. 25· ·They're not impeding the other lane safetywise. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· We have the same system set up ·2· ·at our new development in Fair Haven on the corner of Ferry ·3· ·Street and Chatham Street.· The distances, I admit, are ·4· ·further here, but it is manageable at Chatham Street.· If ·5· ·you go there, it's -- you know, it's very close.· And this ·6· ·is probably, you know, half as far again for the worst case ·7· ·residents.· But, you know, I don't expect that it will be an ·8· ·issue. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· What are the comments or the 10· ·feedback from residents there who have lived with this 11· ·system for a few years? 12· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· So what I'll say is residents 13· ·don't leave trash all over the site.· It's all brought to 14· ·the two locations on the site where we have 4-yard 15· ·dumpsters.· So, you know, taking that as a comment, 16· ·everybody manages -- manages to do it. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· It may not seem like it's 18· ·something, you know, that's -- I mean, it's definitely not a 19· ·deal breaker.· It may not seem like it's a big issue.· And I 20· ·hear you saying it manageable, but if I lived in that 21· ·section right there, the two units, one of those two units 22· ·there, I would be very hard-pressed to either do it myself, 23· ·which I'm not going to do, you know, or -- and I can only 24· ·speak from what I know -- send my child across that street, 25· ·down the street, and then across that street with a bag of ·1· ·trash at any given time.· And because you don't have totes, ·2· ·then trash is -- you know, I'm assuming those are going to ·3· ·be, say, multiple bedroom units there, which could be a ·4· ·family of four.· So you're going to have a bag or two of ·5· ·trash a day, you know, and that's -- we don't want plastic ·6· ·bags flying around in the city now. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· That's true. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You've got to be able to get ·9· ·rid of that trash.· Again, it may not seem like a big thing, 10· ·but waste management in a household is an issue.· And, you 11· ·know, I mean, I don't live in a complex like that.· We have 12· ·totes that a lot of people don't put their trash in the 13· ·totes and, you know, they're sitting on the curb or they're 14· ·sitting in front. 15· · · · · · · · · I mean, that's not what you want to happen 16· ·in that neighborhood, but it's going to be an issue on how 17· ·those people are going to be able to dispose of their 18· ·garbage.· It's going to be an issue.· And it's something 19· ·that you're going to need to revisit.· I don't know how 20· ·you're going to do it, but you're sure going to have to do 21· ·it.· You have to put some dumpsters -- you've got to put a 22· ·dumpster at least somewhere.· I don't know where.· I have no 23· ·idea. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· So we do have an amount of 25· ·maintenance people that will be assigned to the site.· As Ed ·1· ·had mentioned, we looked at the options of how we could ·2· ·manage trash.· And, for instance, the building in phase 1, ·3· ·there is a trash room inside the building where the ·4· ·maintenance gentleman moves the totes out to the road at a ·5· ·certain time in coordination with the dump truck. ·6· · · · · · · · · But for such a spread-out site, the amount ·7· ·of maintenance people that the RAD deal can sustain would ·8· ·not be able to keep up with the amount of trash that is ·9· ·going to be generated by such a large amount of residents of 10· ·such a large space. 11· · · · · · · · · So we kind of focused on this as being the 12· ·option that was the best solution so that we can manage the 13· ·area and have maintenance people to do work orders and clean 14· ·the site. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I understand what you're 16· ·saying as this being the best solution, but it's not a good 17· ·solution.· I mean -- and, again, I don't mean to, you know, 18· ·say that this plan sucks because you don't have somebody to 19· ·carry out my trash, but I do see it as being an issue. 20· · · · · · · · · I mean, if I were to ask you how many feet 21· ·is it, you know, from that unit to the dumpster, you know, 22· ·and I don't think you carry the trash from your house that 23· ·far. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. PAGAN:· It affects the quality of life. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· And if I'm not going to be ·1· ·taking the trash out every day, you know, because it's so ·2· ·far, then where is the trash going to go?· You know, I mean, ·3· ·it seems like it could be an easy fix, you know.· You've got ·4· ·a great plan there.· You've got a great architect.· I'm sure ·5· ·you'll be able to figure it out. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· In fact, that was one of the ·7· ·comments from the architect, is putting the trash in the ·8· ·center of the site.· But then you have a 4-yard dumpster ·9· ·outside your unit. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You don't want that. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· You go one way, you go the 12· ·other. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mm-hmm.· Mm-hmm.· But you're 14· ·going to need something somewhere, just as much as you need 15· ·bike racks, you know.· We can make room for bike racks. 16· ·We've got to make room for trash.· I can live without a 17· ·bike.· I can't live with my trash. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It's true. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· I'm wondering if there's 20· ·sort of an intermediate solution to have totes for those 21· ·buildings that are central -- not totes for every unit, but 22· ·sort of a shared block of totes for those areas. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Then how is the waste truck 24· ·going to maneuver in there? 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Well, they'd have ·1· ·to -- ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· There would be a maintenance ·3· ·person responsible for moving the totes or a volunteer. I ·4· ·don't know. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I think all of us ·6· ·feel that you have done your best to do it as well as you ·7· ·can; but in the end, it's not going to work. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· He's got the answer. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· These small buildings here -- 10· ·not buildings.· These connecters between the townhouse 11· ·units, there's three of them. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· They're connectors? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Yeah.· See how it gets 14· ·thinner here?· That's not a unit.· That's actually a 15· ·maintenance area.· In the back is mechanical. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· In the back is maintenance. 17· ·And in the front, we've got our mechanicals. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· So in the front, 19· ·there could possibly be -- 20· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· We can do rolling totes. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- a dumpster in there. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· I don't think we can 23· ·remove -- 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But you need to -- right 25· ·where you said, where those maintenance units are, one there ·1· ·and one there, just for those. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· We don't have the ability ·3· ·here.· These units here -- basically, for unit number 2, 7, ·4· ·and 8, we have that.· The reason why the mechanicals are on ·5· ·the street side is because it reduces your cost of ·6· ·installation of utilities from running it around the back ·7· ·side of the building for meters, et cetera, for specifically ·8· ·your water, electrical, et cetera. ·9· · · · · · · · · In the back is actually where there is the 10· ·access point for management to have access for, you know, 11· ·any sort of maintenance tools, equipment that they need.· We 12· ·will revisit some strategy on trash handling. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· Just to reduce the walking 14· ·distance, we can add one extra location here and then -- 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Giovanni, what's the answer? 16· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Possibility. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· -- maybe even like a tote area 18· ·here that the maintenance person will just be responsible 19· ·for that one area. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· We could put a couple 21· ·2-yarders.· We can spread a few 2-yarders. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· Then nobody's walking distance 23· ·is this anymore. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I knew you could do it. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· I would rather not put one on ·1· ·the park. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· No.· We don't want one on ·3· ·the park. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· No.· I like your ·5· ·thinking because you're trying to do the right thing. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· It's the little things. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You have to consider ·8· ·the practicalities of how people will behave. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· 100 percent.· And I think 10· ·we've gone through probably five years' worth of identifying 11· ·multiple options.· I think we've exhausted with the Housing 12· ·Authority on how we can work this out because originally 13· ·there was totes everywhere. 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah.· That isn't 15· ·going to work either. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· We realized that wasn't going 17· ·to work. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So since you're in that mood 19· ·now, what are we calling that Street A?· Why is it not 20· ·staying Franklin Street?· And the reason why I'm asking is 21· ·purely personal because I grew up in Brookside.· Brookside 22· ·no longer exists.· I spent -- I mean, generations of people 23· ·grew up in Brookside.· Brookside no longer exists.· You 24· ·know, the street names all changed where I lived.· I mean, 25· ·it's bad enough that where I lived is no longer there, but ·1· ·even the actual place is not there. ·2· · · · · · · · · Franklin Street -- I'm maybe dating myself, ·3· ·you know, but I mean, what's the point of changing? ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· I think you will probably be ·5· ·pleased with some of the names that have come up for the ·6· ·streets.· I don't know if you're able to -- ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· I mean, we can talk about the ·8· ·process, too, with the city. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I'm just talking about 10· ·Franklin Street.· The other ones are new streets. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· There's connections to the -- 12· ·if you recall, as part of the original Farnum Courts, this 13· ·front area here along Grand Avenue was DeLauro Park, so 14· ·there's connections there, if you want to get into -- 15· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· You want to talk roads?· We 16· ·have road names that -- 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Why is it no longer 18· ·Franklin?· Just because? 19· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· That's above my pay grade now. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· You know, there's -- we 21· ·didn't submit the name.· Who are you working with? 22· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· Cathy Schroeter, LCI. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· We have been reviewing your 24· ·names.· We rejected some of the names because they were too 25· ·close to the names of the streets in New Haven.· I think ·1· ·you've now given us -- that's actually no joke for emergency ·2· ·response.· That's a problem. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But that's what I'm saying. ·4· ·You don't need to -- ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· We're very careful now with any ·6· ·new streets that they are very dissimilar from any other ·7· ·streets.· And I think we still have to probably check the ·8· ·next day or two, but I think the two new ones you submitted ·9· ·are -- I don't remember exactly what they were, but they 10· ·didn't ring a bell as being anything close to any of the 11· ·other streets. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· I think one was Sheila. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· We try to name them after 14· ·important people, either the city or Housing Authority.· So 15· ·the latest strange was Sheila for Sheila Allen-Bell, who 16· ·just passed way.· We have DeLauro Drive.· We have -- I can't 17· ·remember all the street names. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· DeStefano, Bell, and Regina we 19· ·changed from Winters because there was a -- 20· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· There's connection there, 21· ·history. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· And so what is 23· ·Franklin Street now going to be called? 24· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· So I'm getting mixed up.· I'm 25· ·pretty sure that that entire street is going to be DeLauro, ·1· ·and I forget which one is DeStefano.· I think it's the one ·2· ·between 2A and -- ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You called it Street A.· It ·4· ·runs across phase 1, 2A. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Yeah.· So the top on that ·6· ·picture is DeLauro.· DeStefano is the one that goes east to ·7· ·west on the bottom.· That's DeStefano.· The one on the ·8· ·bottom stays Hamilton.· Bell is right there.· That's Bell. ·9· ·That one is -- what are we going to go with?· Sheila? 10· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· Sheila, yeah.· This one is 11· ·Regina. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Correct. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· All of those new 14· ·streets are wonderful, named after wonderful people. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· She's pushing for 16· ·Franklin for the top. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Not that I don't care about 18· ·DeLauro.· I'm just asking that question.· You know, when you 19· ·start changing neighborhoods, you know, changing the look, 20· ·that's a good thing.· You know, making things look better, 21· ·that's always a good thing.· But, you know, the folks that 22· ·either were there -- there's history.· I used to live on 23· ·Franklin Street.· Where?· There's no more Franklin Street. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· That's a good point. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· We can explore that with the ·1· ·city. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I'll call Rosa and ask her. ·3· ·We'll name another street after her.· Maybe Rosa Park. ·4· ·There's already a Rosa Park.· DeLauro Park. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You're naming your private drives ·6· ·something street?· Zellers and Bell? ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Correct.· Those are -- yes. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Private drives? ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· You have to differentiate, 10· ·yeah.· I think -- I don't think we're naming the one 11· ·Townhouse Walk.· Is that staying Townhouse Walk? 12· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Townhouse Alley. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Townhouse Walk is what you 14· ·submitted. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· I think we changed it. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Okay.· I have an older 17· ·version. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Leave Franklin alone. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Leave Hamilton alone. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· We are leaving Hamilton alone. 21· ·Hamilton is staying Hamilton. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· It's because of the musical. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Is that because of the 24· ·musical?· What dollar bill is that on?· That's why. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair -- ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I would like to make a ·3· ·motion. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· What is it? ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I would like to move the ·6· ·report but add a condition that the project team will work ·7· ·with city staff on possible solutions to the trash problem ·8· ·that we've pointed out tonight. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· That's acceptable. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I am slightly -- I agree.· As 11· ·technical staff member, I also support the applicant taking 12· ·a look at how trash is managed on-site.· However, that might 13· ·require some changes to their layout maybe perhaps, so I -- 14· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· There will be some 15· ·modifications because of the added enclosures. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· It wouldn't change the 17· ·layouts of the buildings because our visibility -- those 18· ·can't move. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Right.· The buildings can't 20· ·move.· Visibility can't move, the sidewalks.· What we will 21· ·be doing is probably either incorporating -- you know, 22· ·either some of those little maintenance areas there, 23· ·potentially an access that's going to house a tote or 24· ·something or maybe -- 25· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· Potentially a 2-yard -- ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Potentially a trash room can ·2· ·be used for those that are in the center core of the site ·3· ·that have the largest distance to travel, you know, with ·4· ·their trash.· On an overall basis, I think just even a few ·5· ·pads is not going to make a large impact all things ·6· ·considered. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· It's like an operational plan ·8· ·more -- like a detailed operational plan more than ·9· ·significant site plan changes I think. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Perhaps.· I think I would ask 11· ·for some more specific direction so when we have the 12· ·conversation again with traffic and parking -- because Bruce 13· ·has already expressed some concern in regards to the 14· ·dumpsters being across the road.· I think that in order to 15· ·open that conversation back up and continue it, I think 16· ·either I would suggest that we table and work with our 17· ·technical review staff in the meantime so you can review the 18· ·plan again to make sure it's sufficient.· I don't know what 19· ·the alternative is. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I happen to agree with 21· ·Stacey, I think, just because should it impact the site 22· ·layout or any of the technicalities further as a result of 23· ·coming up with the best trash plan that they can, we 24· ·wouldn't want to put the applicant in the position where 25· ·you've approved this with some sort of condition that's too ·1· ·difficult to administer and then they have to come back to ·2· ·you or come to us for an administrative and then report it ·3· ·to you.· It gets sticky quickly I think.· So it might be in ·4· ·the commission's best interest to table it and keep it ·5· ·within their purview. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· How does that affect ·7· ·whatever timeline issues they have with regards to the ·8· ·applications and such? ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· So our plan was to close in 10· ·October.· Would it be possible to condition it with those 11· ·certain locations, like, within those buildings for the 12· ·maintenance areas?· It's going to be near impossible to 13· ·create a plan where you don't have to cross a street just 14· ·the way the grid block is laid out.· But we can reduce and 15· ·give better options for the center.· I mean, we could -- we 16· ·talked about those -- I mean, I know it's more work for you 17· ·because you're going to have to reverse the work you did 18· ·here, but we can convert these locations to trash pretty 19· ·readily without changing any of the building layout; 20· ·correct?· We're working this through in a commission 21· ·meeting. 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· It's live action. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· We need to ensure, though, 24· ·that we still meet code requirements when it comes to 25· ·spatial requirements for all of the mechanicals that are in ·1· ·there.· I mean, we've got on-demand electric heaters and hot ·2· ·water that's in there that are building driven, not unit ·3· ·driven. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Couldn't we approve ·5· ·this with a condition that you'll come back in a month with ·6· ·a revised garbage plan? ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· That would allow us to ·8· ·continue our closing process. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· The approval depends on the 11· ·trash site plan criteria within Section 64.· Are you allowed 12· ·to condition something that could potentially hold up 13· ·approval?· I just want to be sure. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah.· So just for the 15· ·commission's benefit, so we try to avoid conditions of 16· ·approval that are also criteria of approval because there's 17· ·plenty of case law that suggests that that's not an 18· ·appropriate condition.· So, generally, the safest way would 19· ·be to make a very specific condition of approval related to 20· ·a trash plan like Aicha mentioned that would be maybe a 21· ·separate document.· If the applicant is fairly confident 22· ·that it's not going to affect the physical layout they have 23· ·presented to you, that would be fine.· If in abundance of 24· ·caution they want to table it in case there's modifications, 25· ·that would probably be the safest bet.· I would leave it to ·1· ·the commission and applicant to figure what's best. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· I would hate to do anything ·3· ·that slows down the closing.· It's such a process with these ·4· ·tax credits that I would rather structure your approval in a ·5· ·way that -- ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. SOUTHAM:· If we have to change the ·7· ·buildings, then we have to come back. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· I mean, I think we can do ·9· ·this without changing the buildings.· I think we can put a 10· ·couple enclosures maybe by Townhouse Alley. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· So, for instance, just as an 12· ·idea, we do have some extra parking spaces.· We have a total 13· ·of 109 spaces.· Technically, we only need 103 based on 14· ·units.· We've done in other areas -- so, for instance, a 15· ·project down in Bridgeport where there's small enclosures 16· ·that are within a parking lot area. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I think it's not 18· ·desirable for you to figure it out right now. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. PAGAN:· On the fly. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Yeah, I agree. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· Understood.· I'm just giving 22· ·you some things that that's not going to impact your 23· ·required parking, number one, which is good.· Number two, 24· ·it's not going to impact the impervious area when it comes 25· ·to water calculations.· So you've got all those items ·1· ·together that's going to help us move this along as an ·2· ·approval with conditions. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I think we're concerned that if ·4· ·you were to make any changes with parking and on-site, I'm ·5· ·pretty sure without looking at the ordinance that that would ·6· ·trigger site plan CPC review again anyway. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. LENAHAN:· So we wouldn't do that. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Why don't I make -- why don't ·9· ·we say that our motion is to approve this report provided -- 10· ·with the condition that the project team will work with city 11· ·staff on a more robust operational plan for trash. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yes. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And then if in the course of 14· ·talking about the operational plan they hit a site plan 15· ·ramification, then you can send it back. 16· · · · · · · · · Would that make sense? 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That would be satisfactory. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· What he said. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So I move it thus, Mr. Chair. 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All in favor? 21· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Thank you. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you for bearing with 24· ·us. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. LaCHANCE:· It's a process. ·1· · · · · · · · · (Simultaneous discussion.) ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Mr. Chair, if I may ·3· ·introduce the next item as our team gets settled, this is ·4· ·1558-01 for 257, 269, and 297 Peck Street.· This is a site ·5· ·plan review for the conversion of existing industrial space ·6· ·to offices for New Reach.· You'll remember you recently ·7· ·approved the zone change that was going to be enabling ·8· ·backgrounds to this application. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We recommended approval by 10· ·the body that approves it. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Let the record reflect 12· ·recommended approval to the Board of Alders. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· They approved this. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I will allow the applicant 15· ·to go from there. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. MILES:· The zone change is effective 17· ·today, so it is now the IL zone instead of the heavy 18· ·industry zone. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It's effective. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Introduce yourselves. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. MILES:· My name is Meaghan Miles.· I'm 22· ·an attorney with Carmody Torrance Sandak & Hennessey with an 23· ·office at 195 Church Street.· With me is Fred DeClark of New 24· ·Reach.· Also with me is Sam Gardner. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Sam Gardner, GWG Architects, ·1· ·151 East Street. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MILES:· And Ron Wassmer, our civil ·3· ·engineer. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. WASSMER:· Ronald Wassmer, 158 Research ·5· ·Drive, Milford, Connecticut, professional engineer and land ·6· ·surveyor. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. MILES:· So the site is 257, 269, and 297 ·8· ·Peck Street.· It is on Peck Street between Ferry Street and ·9· ·Blatchley Avenue, and it's right next to Erector Square.· It 10· ·is zoned light industry.· It is approximately 1.1 acres, and 11· ·the existing site has four buildings on it that are 12· ·currently used for construction offices and warehousing. 13· · · · · · · · · So New Reach, the applicant tonight, 14· ·provides affordable housing and related support services in 15· ·New Haven and throughout New Haven County.· The owner of the 16· ·property is Peck Street, LLC.· This is recent, and they're 17· ·affiliated with New Reach.· And New Reach desires to use 18· ·this site for their administrative offices and then also for 19· ·storage of furniture and goods that they would use at their 20· ·affordable housing and shelters offsite. 21· · · · · · · · · Really this project is an internal fit-out. 22· ·Very few modifications are proposed to the existing 23· ·buildings.· Technically, it's a slight change in use because 24· ·some of the warehousing space is now turning into office 25· ·space.· They're completely repaving and restriping the ·1· ·existing surface parking lot, which has the result of ·2· ·actually increasing the amount of parking on-site from 23 ·3· ·spaces to -- or 24 spaces to 43 spaces. ·4· · · · · · · · · General site improvements are also proposed, ·5· ·including landscaping and improved lighting and only small ·6· ·additions are proposed to only two of the buildings.· It's ·7· ·really a nice connector piece connecting to two of the ·8· ·buildings, which Sam can lay out.· And that's it for site ·9· ·changes. 10· · · · · · · · · Sam's available to dive into more details if 11· ·you would like.· I don't know if staff had questions for us, 12· ·but that's it. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· You want to 14· ·say anything? 15· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· I'll give you a quick 16· ·overview. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Very quick. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· The site is going to be their 19· ·campus essentially, if you want to think about -- it will be 20· ·the campus for New Reach and a lot of their programs. 21· ·They're very community focused, so there's a lot of 22· ·community coming to them and then a lot of them going out 23· ·into the community. 24· · · · · · · · · So these two buildings -- this is a -- this 25· ·was and will continue to be a one-story office building.· In ·1· ·the rear, there was a warehouse structure, which we are also ·2· ·going to convert to office use, slightly higher.· It's sort ·3· ·of like a story and half inside.· And then we created a ·4· ·connector piece.· And we're creating a more obvious and ·5· ·branded entrance for them. ·6· · · · · · · · · There was an addition here that pre -- that ·7· ·we're taking down.· It's in the way for good traffic ·8· ·circulation, and it's kind of in horrible shape.· So that's ·9· ·gone, and that helps just clean up the architecture. 10· · · · · · · · · These are two prefab, like, butler buildings 11· ·that will be used for warehouse and furniture and just other 12· ·parts of their program.· So that's the overview. 13· · · · · · · · · This is just looking at the main event, 14· ·which is how we're merging the two buildings.· And it's now 15· ·cranked in the drawings to fit on the page, but essentially 16· ·main entrance in the heart, administrative offices, flex 17· ·offices, and then two -- I'm going to all them multipurpose 18· ·rooms.· They do stuff internally with these spaces or 19· ·they'll make them available to the community, their 20· ·partners. 21· · · · · · · · · They're going to have a movable wall so that 22· ·they can open it up between the spaces.· We're using two 23· ·garage doors just for there, light and air kind of thing. 24· ·And then the rest is just making it work for the layout for 25· ·New Reach, the amount of offices they have. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· What's the traffic? ·2· ·What's the circulation pattern? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Let's go back to the site ·4· ·plan.· The cover there shows you what the site currently ·5· ·looks like.· You guys ask for these drawings.· There we go. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. WASSMER:· Ronald Wassmer.· There's two ·7· ·proposed gated entrances.· There's existing two entrances ·8· ·right now.· Traffic circulates basically in a horseshoe. ·9· ·There's a rear parking lot in the back.· That's the basic 10· ·traffic flow. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Where we had that building, we 12· ·took it down.· We're creating kind of a plaza in front of 13· ·the entrance. 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Is there a place for 15· ·visitors?· How do visitors -- 16· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Parking you mean? 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah.· How does that 18· ·work? 19· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· I don't think that parking has 20· ·been specifically designated for -- 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I was thinking you 22· ·said they were gated entrances.· Are all of them gated 23· ·entrances? 24· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Well, there's two entrances. 25· ·They will have gates on them.· They're going to be open. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, they'll be open. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· During their hours, their ·3· ·working hours. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Not a problem. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· It's really -- I think the ·6· ·decision was internally to maintain these gates because, you ·7· ·know, security. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Very reasonable. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· And we own them.· They're 10· ·there.· We're moving them, but it's there. 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sam, for the commission's 13· ·benefit, the report still reflects sort of a less than 14· ·affirmative statement on meeting the reflective heat.· If 15· ·you could just maybe go over that briefly so that the 16· ·commission might propose changing that language when they 17· ·make a motion. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Okay.· Yeah.· It's towards the 19· ·end.· So, currently, the site is mostly paved. 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Buildings occupied. 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· It's varied. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· The rest of it.· We greened it 24· ·up as much as we could, and for the size of the lot -- and 25· ·this was what we were discussing with staff, was it's a ·1· ·small lot.· Do you have to include the buildings in it or ·2· ·not?· The decision was that we should.· So when you include ·3· ·the buildings, we meet and exceed the 50, so we're -- ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MILES:· Because of the buildings. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· If you didn't include the ·6· ·building and you just had the paved surfaces and whatever ·7· ·green we had, we were falling short. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. MILES:· That's because the buildings -- ·9· ·the roof treatment is a special treatment. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· I'm sorry.· The two existing 11· ·butler buildings happen to have white roofs, so we're kind 12· ·of lucky there.· We have to reroof the back.· We'll go with 13· ·a reflective roof.· And then the existing roof, which is in 14· ·fairly good condition and is modern, we'll treat it to be 15· ·reflective.· So that's the way we're going to get there on 16· ·the reflective heat. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So should it be to the 18· ·commission's satisfaction, perhaps if someone were to make a 19· ·motion, you might modify the statement under 60.2.· We just 20· ·weren't -- when I wrote this report for your benefit, we 21· ·weren't sure what the treatment was on the roof or how much 22· ·roof, but Sam just explained it to -- 23· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Yeah.· I mean, we were all 24· ·struggling with the language of the ordinance, which said 25· ·this application pertains to any site with one-half acre or ·1· ·more of impervious cover.· Well, we have less than that ·2· ·so -- ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Excluding the buildings. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Excluding the roofs.· So ·5· ·that's what we were parsing back and forth, the language. ·6· ·It was the language of that particular ordinance.· It's not ·7· ·perfectly clear. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· We'll work on that next. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· But when you throw in the 10· ·roofs, we're -- we more than meet the spirit of that 11· ·ordinance. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Can applicants request a 13· ·waiver of that requirement? 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah, they can. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· You're right. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· They can. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· They don't need a 18· ·waiver. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. MILES:· That's what the back and forth. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You need a waiver to have the 21· ·roofs count. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Well, it's kind of confusing how 23· ·the language is actually written.· It's not clear as to 24· ·whether or not they need a waiver or if they can ask the 25· ·commission to use reflective roof to help fulfill that ·1· ·50 percent essentially. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Right.· So the standard ·3· ·actually requires -- it's sort of reiterated here on the ·4· ·report, the standard part of it.· Standard is 50 percent of ·5· ·all on-site non-roof hard scape is what is counted; but if ·6· ·you read the very last section of the standard, it says ·7· ·unless the applicant can otherwise meet the requirements ·8· ·counting roofs. ·9· · · · · · · · · So I think the decision that was made 10· ·between the consensus amongst staff after discussing with 11· ·the applicant was that buildings count towards impervious 12· ·surface, but they're also then meeting it by treating said 13· ·roofs, which I think satisfied us; but it has to satisfy -- 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Sounds like the commission 15· ·needs to make a finding. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· It does. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So we'll do that as part of 18· ·our motion. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Sounds great. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I'll think about that right 21· ·now. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Awesome. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· He's good at that.· Do that. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Do you need to hear about how 25· ·we're handling storm water? ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So he's satisfied. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Yes. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· The usual. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We love storm water handling. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· We don't want to ignore storm ·6· ·water. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. WASSMER:· Currently, a lot of the older ·8· ·built sections in New Haven there's not much in the storm ·9· ·water management, so we've proposed reconstructing some of 10· ·the catch basins that are on-site, providing infiltration. 11· ·It's a very good sandy soil area.· We've done some soil 12· ·investigation.· We presented the plan to Greater New Haven 13· ·Water Pollution Control Authority, which has jurisdiction on 14· ·this site, and they provided a positive statement via email. 15· ·I also have a signed-off plan. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· This is a combined sewer area; 17· ·right? 18· · · · · · · · · MR. WASSMER:· That's correct. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You have the 2-year 6-hour storm? 20· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· That's right. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· How much storage do you have? 22· · · · · · · · · MR. WASSMER:· We have two rows of galleys 23· ·over here that are 64 linear feet, 4-by-4 galleys.· And then 24· ·we have two rows back here that again are 64 linear feet and 25· ·4 by 4. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· We're picking up the roost. ·2· ·Do we get anything out of it? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. WASSMER:· As an uncounted but small ·4· ·bonus, we did provide a small bioswale.· There's two ·5· ·proposed deciduous trees in the parking lot.· Right now ·6· ·there's none. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· There's none. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· So -- ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I have a question, Mr. Chair. 10· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Of course. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I noted there was an 12· ·additional condition of approval about sidewalks, and I'm 13· ·wondering why it's there.· Maybe staff could answer.· Was 14· ·there some question about sidewalks being damaged or 15· ·destroyed or -- 16· · · · · · · · · MR. WASSMER:· There was a notation to repair 17· ·and reconstruct the sidewalks.· The driveway aprons are 18· ·shifting ever so slightly, so there will be some 19· ·reconstruction of sidewalk aprons, reconstruction of curb. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I think it was mostly a 21· ·question -- the way it was drawn, I just wasn't sure if it 22· ·met the city's standards.· So to the extent that it doesn't, 23· ·it should.· That's what it's getting at. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Okay. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· That's usually vetted during the ·1· ·building permit process before engineering or traffic signs ·2· ·off on the plan. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· The new curb cuts are using ·4· ·the city standards. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. WASSMER:· Yes.· The details are included ·6· ·in the plan. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· And we've included the details ·8· ·for any sidewalk repair.· It's city standard sidewalk ·9· ·repair. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So the fact that the report 11· ·is being extra certain that you meet those city standards is 12· ·not a problem for you. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Not at all.· It's working. 14· ·There's convergence. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I'm going to advise you that you 16· ·need a separate construction permit to do the sidewalk work 17· ·and driveway work. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· There you go. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Okay.· Mr. Chair -- 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- I'll move the item with a 22· ·slight change to the report.· Right before the site plan 23· ·action, which is right at the end of the report, there is a 24· ·phrase that says "with the exception of reflective heat 25· ·impact which must be discussed with the city engineer at the ·1· ·hearing," my motion would remove that language and instead ·2· ·say "and the commission further finds that the applicant ·3· ·meets the reflective heat index requirement through the ·4· ·treatment of the roofs." ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Any ·6· ·discussion?· If not, all in favor? ·7· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. MILES:· Thank you. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you. 10· · · · · · · · · (Simultaneous discussion.) 11· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· The next item on the agenda is 12· ·1558-02, which is 1294 Chapel Street.· This is a site plan 13· ·review for construction of a two-story addition to an 14· ·existing two-story building into seven residential building 15· ·units. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· Good evening.· My name is 17· ·Miguel Almodovar.· I am an attorney at the law firm of 18· ·Jacobs & Rozich here in New Haven, Connecticut.· I'm joined 19· ·tonight by Matthew Niski, Juliano Associates. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Sam Gardner with GWG 21· ·Architects, 151 East Street. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· And then Eyal Pbeis, who is 23· ·the client in this matter, is also here with us tonight. 24· · · · · · · · · So, briefly, this site plan review involves 25· ·1294 Chapel Street.· It is a property located in the BA zone ·1· ·on Chapel Street.· It's near the St. Raphael's campus just ·2· ·outside of downtown.· We previously received variances for ·3· ·this site in terms of the setbacks because the site includes ·4· ·now a two-story existing building, which is used as office ·5· ·space.· That office space will continue to be used by the ·6· ·current tenant during the construction process. ·7· · · · · · · · · And the idea here is to add two stories to ·8· ·this building, which will contain seven residential units. ·9· ·In addition to the residential units being added, there will 10· ·be the installation of an elevator as well as a rear fire 11· ·egress stair and a bike rack on the property. 12· · · · · · · · · The site has 16 parking spaces, which can 13· ·accommodate both the office use and the residential use.· As 14· ·I stated previously, the setbacks we -- excuse me, the 15· ·variances we required just had to do with the setbacks, it 16· ·being a building which preexisted -- or predated zoning 17· ·rather.· It was built very close to the property line. 18· · · · · · · · · And so we got the setbacks that were 19· ·required.· Really the most interesting thing we did on the 20· ·site apart from the addition of two stories is we reworked 21· ·the parking on-site.· Currently, the parking is sort of 22· ·haphazard and certainly predates anyone looking at seriously 23· ·about traffic flow.· What we did on-site was we straightened 24· ·out the parking spaces.· We made sure they actually work. 25· ·And we added a turn-around area at the rear of the property ·1· ·so that cars can come onto the site, turn around, and then ·2· ·exit the site all without backing up over the sidewalk, ·3· ·which is a hazardous activity. ·4· · · · · · · · · So that's the overview.· It's a very ·5· ·straightforward project.· If you have any specific ·6· ·questions, we would be happy to answer them.· But it really ·7· ·is -- we do have a positive staff report.· They're ·8· ·recommending approval.· And so we would really like to ·9· ·answer any specific questions you have, but that's really 10· ·all I've got. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I'm wondering if our city 12· ·engineer has any questions. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I'm just wondering if the storm 14· ·water has attention. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· Want me to go over that quick? 16· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I see it. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· In terms of the storm water, 18· ·there's currently nothing on-site other than two catch 19· ·basins, which then direct to a manhole in Chapel Street.· We 20· ·are proposing to remove the line that connects the catch 21· ·basin to Chapel, the manhole, direct it into underground 22· ·storage units and then direct the overflow of that into the 23· ·same manhole.· So we are storing potential runoff over the 24· ·entire site through the use of flow guards and the catch 25· ·basins.· We are now also treating the water before it then ·1· ·flows into the city system.· We are also reducing the total ·2· ·flow into the city system by infiltration, and we are ·3· ·reducing the amount of impervious on-site by a whopping, I ·4· ·think, 98 square feet.· It's not much. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· This goes into the city storm ·6· ·line here; right? ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· Correct. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· This is, like, the way end of our ·9· ·separate area; right? 10· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· I believe so. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· All right. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· Are there any other 13· ·questions? 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Why just two bike racks? I 15· ·mean, it's probably all that you're required to do, but 16· ·wouldn't you want to have more? 17· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· It's actually one bicycle rack. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· With two bike spots. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· Well, so that was more for 20· ·zoning purposes.· It will be a bicycle rack for zoning 21· ·purposes, and the parking will be designated to have two 22· ·bicycles on it.· I'm sure many more could fit on it, but 23· ·that's what we needed for zoning purposes.· So that's what 24· ·we've got.· Really there's nowhere else to put bikes on this 25· ·site without moving them into a parking area.· The bikes ·1· ·right now are underneath the staircase over here, and that's ·2· ·really -- that's the only place you can put them.· This is ·3· ·for turnaround.· This is all parking lot, and then this is ·4· ·the front of the building. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It's a tight sight. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· We are right up against the ·7· ·property.· We're right up against it. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And is it going to be like ·9· ·the kind of rack where you can lock your frame up to it? 10· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· It's a hoop.· The plans do 11· ·include a detail for it.· So, yeah, it's a U-shape.· I do 12· ·have it somewhere. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Do we have a city standard for 14· ·bike racks? 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Do we have a city standard 16· ·for bike racks, Giovanni? 17· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I don't think so. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I don't think so.· We have one 19· ·for ones in the public right of way. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· That's maybe another piece of 21· ·work to do going forward. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· We'll add it to the list. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· The growing list. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I think it would be better to 25· ·have, like, a standard specification.· We don't necessarily ·1· ·want to pick winners and losers of models of bike racks.· In ·2· ·fact, we tend to vary in our own selection for our projects ·3· ·of what we install. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You're proposing to add two ·5· ·stories? ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· That's correct. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· The surrounding properties ·8· ·are mostly three stories?· Is the height of the building ·9· ·going to be -- 10· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· The height of the building 11· ·isn't out of step with the neighborhood.· I believe this 12· ·building right next door towards downtown, I believe, is 13· ·three stories. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· It's like two and a half. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· It looks like a three-family 16· ·house, but it's commercial.· It's not residential. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· The one on the other side? 18· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· No.· This is an office building 19· ·as well. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· And the building to the rear 21· ·is a much larger -- 22· · · · · · · · · MR. NISKI:· That's at least seven stories. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· It's got to be seven stories. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But on Chapel Street, that 25· ·section of Chapel Street -- ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· There's a mix. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· A mix of? ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· There's a mix of residential, ·4· ·two-family homes, and -- you know, this is not like a sore ·5· ·thumb in this area at all. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· And I can say we sent notice ·7· ·to all the neighbors.· We got one telephone call.· My office ·8· ·got one telephone call from, actually, the doctor that ·9· ·operates out of this space or maybe a couple down and that 10· ·was it. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Was he threatening or 12· ·something? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· No.· He just called and 14· ·wanted to let me know that he got the notice and asked a 15· ·couple questions and that was it. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Any change in the facade 17· ·with the building? 18· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Yeah.· We're trying to 19· ·merge -- 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I mean, I know you can't 21· ·make it look like everything else.· Everything doesn't 22· ·always have to look like everything. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· I did a bit of a colored 24· ·rendering.· I'll find it.· So this is the street facade 25· ·here.· So that's the existing building.· It's brick.· It's ·1· ·got this kind of mid-century modern feel.· So we went with ·2· ·that as the look.· And along that property line, we actually ·3· ·offset the building so you can actually have windows along ·4· ·that side, because the building code won't allow you to have ·5· ·windows on the property line until you get to about 3 feet ·6· ·or 5 feet.· We chose 5 feet because it gives you more ·7· ·percentage openings, and so it was building code driven, not ·8· ·zoning code. ·9· · · · · · · · · And then we're cantilevering over the 10· ·driveway, I'm going to say, about 4 or 5 feet.· So it's like 11· ·the building -- the second story was shifted.· And this is 12· ·the cantilever side, EFIS stucco finish.· It will be 13· ·probably wood framed. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Is that a stairway in the 15· ·back? elevator? 16· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· So the elevator in the plan is 17· ·where the current staircase is.· There is a staircase here, 18· ·but we're inserting an elevator to serve all four stories. 19· ·So we're taking a bite out of the commercial space.· Then 20· ·we're reestablishing the staircase.· It had to change 21· ·dimensions because it's going higher.· Sorry.· I'm holding 22· ·it and moving it. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We got it. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· That's it.· Then the new 25· ·stairs in the back, which has to go fully up.· You need a ·1· ·second in the back.· That's the deal. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And you're keeping the ·3· ·commercial uses at the bottom? ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Presently, yeah.· It's a mixed ·5· ·use building. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· There's a tenant in there ·7· ·that has a lease. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· What's the nature of the ·9· ·business that's there? 10· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· It's office space for Yale 11· ·University.· So what they do in there, who knows. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Regular hours of operation? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· Yeah.· It's medical related. 14· ·It has to do with Yale Medical, so typical hours of 15· ·operation, 9:00 to 5:00.· And so that also provides us with 16· ·sort of an offset use in between the residential, where 17· ·people can go to work if they live there and then they come 18· ·back and the parking lot is empty of any office workers. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So the access to the office 20· ·is through the front? 21· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· That's correct.· That's right. 22· ·And the back door.· There's a back door. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· And the parking lot side, is 24· ·that how you access from the residential units, from the 25· ·rear and the side? ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· From the front, same front ·2· ·door. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Same front door? ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· Yeah. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It's a tight site.· It's ·6· ·going to be tough to build. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. GARDNER:· To build it from one side, ·8· ·we're contemplating prefab, just lift it up in pieces. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Lift it up and screw it on. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It's quite a tight site. 11· · · · · · · · · Madam Chair, I move to make a motion. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You ready? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I move the item. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· All in favor? 15· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· The ayes have it. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. ALMODOVAR:· Thank you for your time. 18· · · · · · · · · (Simultaneous discussion.) 19· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· 260 York Street coming 20· ·forward? 21· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Madam Chair, while they set 22· ·up, I'll introduce this for the record.· This is 1558-04 for 23· ·260 York Street.· This is a site plan review for the 24· ·construction of four-story building that's retail and office 25· ·use in the BA zone.· You may remember that you had a ·1· ·referral to you -- I think it was last time -- asking for a ·2· ·reduction in parking associated with other zoning relief. ·3· ·Last week I guess they were granted their zoning relief for ·4· ·both their parking reduction as well as their increase in ·5· ·FAR, so now they're before you with their final site plan ·6· ·for your consideration. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· All right.· So as you're ·8· ·being seated, if we can start with introductions.· Your name ·9· ·and address if you're going to be speaking. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. SKLARZ:· I'm Mark Sklarz.· I'm a lawyer 11· ·with Green & Sklarz, New Haven, at 700 State Street. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. FITZGERALD:· Jim Fitzgerald, vice 13· ·president of J. Press. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. HULK:· Chris Hulk, licensed professional 15· ·engineer with Milone & MacBroom. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. BLASZKA:· Linda Blaszka, registered 17· ·architect with Newman Architects, 300 York Street. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· Guido Petra, Petra Construction, 19· ·office address 98 Rebeschi Drive, North Haven, Connecticut. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Thank you very much. 21· · · · · · · · · Staff, if you would like to run this ship. 22· ·Tell us what we're looking at here. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Let's see.· You are looking 24· ·at final site plan for the four-story building at J. Press's 25· ·return to their flagship location.· The only additional ·1· ·condition of approval you'll note is just the copy of the ·2· ·reported BZA relief that I mentioned prior.· Otherwise, I ·3· ·think I'll leave it to the applicant to -- oh, I suppose ·4· ·that would be good to mention now. ·5· · · · · · · · · There is some question about compliance with ·6· ·the storm water management plan requirements pursuant to ·7· ·Section 60 of the ordinance.· I believe the applicant is ·8· ·going to ask you for a waiver of those requirements.· This ·9· ·is a zero lot line building, which makes it perhaps 10· ·difficult to comply.· But I'll let them expound on that. 11· · · · · · · · · We have a letter from the applicant 12· ·suggesting perhaps they would participate in building a 13· ·bioswale somewhere along the street in lieu of compliance 14· ·with the storm water requirements. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Okay. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. SKLARZ:· Thank you.· And our engineer 17· ·will discuss that later on. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Great. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. SKLARZ:· I think basically we're all 20· ·pretty excited to be here because I think it's almost a 21· ·bellwether event for the city with the return of the 22· ·flagship store of J. Press to its original location where it 23· ·served its customers for over a century at 260 York Street. 24· · · · · · · · · As the City Plan report noted, we have been 25· ·before the Board of Zoning Appeals and we received two ·1· ·variances, one for FAR and one for relief from the rear yard ·2· ·setback and also a special exception with respect to parking ·3· ·so that we're able to meet the zoning requirements. ·4· · · · · · · · · The premises are now vacant as a result of ·5· ·the demolition of the previous building really as much as ·6· ·anything else because our client was accommodating Yale ·7· ·University for the 272 to 310 Elm Street project for the ·8· ·construction of the graduate school housing and L.L. Bean. ·9· · · · · · · · · The proposed building, we believe, will not 10· ·only reunite a special partner within that Broadway district 11· ·but will further enhance a mixed use village and our 12· ·consultants will go through that in a minute.· By combining 13· ·the retail operations on the first floor with the offices on 14· ·the second and third floor and a lounge and gathering 15· ·assembly site on the fourth floor, which really, I believe, 16· ·will stress the pedestrian orientation of the property and 17· ·the entire district. 18· · · · · · · · · The structure, as was said, will consist of 19· ·four above-grade levels.· It's approximately 16,346 square 20· ·feet, housing the J. Press operation on first floor.· It's 21· ·about 4,250 square feet.· The second and third floor offices 22· ·total about 8,882 square feet.· And the fourth-floor lounge 23· ·is 3,214 square feet.· It is clearly in harmony with the 24· ·vision 2025 and the comprehensive plan of development. 25· · · · · · · · · Just before I turn over the discussion to ·1· ·Newman Architects, Milone & MacBroom, and Petra ·2· ·Construction, who really have the important things to say ·3· ·other than a lawyer, the one thing I have to say is this is ·4· ·not an easy site because of the size of it.· And I think ·5· ·that this was an example of really extraordinary ·6· ·collaboration between our consultants and the City Plan ·7· ·Department, which was immeasurably helpful in helping us ·8· ·develop what I think that everybody will see will be a major ·9· ·contribution to this Broadway district and to the city and, 10· ·as I say, the restoration of J. Press, really a national 11· ·prominent, well-known business and a New Haven business 12· ·institution to its original site. 13· · · · · · · · · Ms. Blaszka. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. BLASZKA:· Thank you, Mark. 15· · · · · · · · · Okay.· I'll talk a little bit about the 16· ·design.· So as Mark had said, this building will be the 17· ·flagship store for J. Press, which was founded in New Haven 18· ·early in the 20th century.· And the project site is 19· ·actually, as you know, the historic location of the 20· ·retailer's original location.· The design of the new 21· ·building is based on some urban planning ideas that 22· ·contribute positively to the urban fabric of the Broadway 23· ·area and we believe to the city itself. 24· · · · · · · · · As Mark said, it's 16,000 square feet with 25· ·the four stories above grade.· J. Press retail function is ·1· ·located on the ground floor.· Second and third floors are ·2· ·our office spaces.· And the fourth floor is the lounge, or ·3· ·gathering space, with an outdoor terrace. ·4· · · · · · · · · So the general massing density and the ·5· ·height -- we designed it so that it meshes with the ·6· ·neighborhood.· We're creating a design that is consistent ·7· ·with the general context of the area and with the Broadway. ·8· ·We're right on the corner from the Broadway area.· So we do ·9· ·believe we have chosen an architectural language that 10· ·follows the established aesthetics of the neighborhood, 11· ·using the traditional brick for the building, you know, 12· ·limestone at the ground floor. 13· · · · · · · · · We've got bronze windows and bronze accents, 14· ·you know, classic noble materials.· The proposed new 15· ·building just, you know, generally harmonizes with the 16· ·context that J. Press is returning back to; and maybe even 17· ·more importantly, it allows the J. Press tradition, which 18· ·is, we believe, synonymous with New Haven to return back to 19· ·its native neighborhood. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. HULK:· So as far as the -- the site 21· ·itself will kind of operate is -- so this is an aerial from 22· ·2010 before the site was demolished to make way for the 23· ·allowable construction of the L.L. Bean area.· So the site 24· ·being kind of here shown in white, building similar in size, 25· ·basically taking up the entirety of the site. ·1· · · · · · · · · So what we'll be proposing is, again, ·2· ·100 percent build-out of the site, which will -- as we got ·3· ·the special exception for the parking, the operations will ·4· ·basically be accessed by foot.· Parking will be located on ·5· ·the streets around it and the various parking lots, all ·6· ·within very walking distance to the site. ·7· · · · · · · · · As far as trash and refuse, that's come up a ·8· ·few times.· That will be able to be accessed through an ·9· ·elevator through the basement.· If for whatever reason 10· ·that's not available, there is ability to go within the 11· ·building itself through elevators and stairs to get refuse 12· ·out to the site. 13· · · · · · · · · Storm water management was brought up.· So 14· ·because the site is going to be 100 percent build-out, due 15· ·to the size of it -- it's .11 acres, so we are exempt from 16· ·several of the requirements based on the size of the site. 17· ·The one that we are not exempt from is the 1 inch of 18· ·retention for the site.· Being as how the only way to 19· ·possibly do that would be to have something underneath the 20· ·building underneath the basement, which is really not 21· ·something you want to do -- you don't really want to 22· ·introduce rainwater into your building.· So we've asked for 23· ·a waiver of that requirement. 24· · · · · · · · · As part of that waiver, we've taken the 25· ·initiative to try to be in harmony with the rest of the city ·1· ·and propose a bioretention swale, a bioretention rain garden ·2· ·area.· We spoke to staff, and they were, you know, on board ·3· ·with that, with the idea that we could put a storm water ·4· ·chamber beneath that to increase the amount or volume that ·5· ·that rain garden can kind of hold, which we are totally fine ·6· ·with doing that and will be happy to have that as a ·7· ·condition of approval to meet the town -- meet the city's ·8· ·standards for doing that development. ·9· · · · · · · · · As far as the rest of the utilities, 10· ·everything is basically right there.· It's an existing 11· ·building, so we will be rehooking up to water and sewer, 12· ·electrical.· But the next part about it that's maybe 13· ·slightly more challenging but definitely doable is kind of 14· ·how the construction is going to go. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· On storm water relief -- we spoke 16· ·on the phone.· I'm Giovanni.· We spoke on the phone.· We 17· ·talked about running the gutter -- the roof leader that you 18· ·had going into the catch basin going into the bioswale.· Are 19· ·you still willing to do that? 20· · · · · · · · · MR. HULK:· Absolutely.· Definitely willing 21· ·to do that. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I think that actually gives you 23· ·the volume that you would need, given how small your site 24· ·is, by doing that.· And while the ordinance requires you to 25· ·do it on your site, you're doing it off your site in the ·1· ·public right of way, where you also get the benefit of water ·2· ·coming off of the street into that bioswale.· So I think ·3· ·it's a real positive thing. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Where is that?· In ·5· ·the tree strip? ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Yeah.· It's within the public ·7· ·right of way. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· So the fun part is going to be ·9· ·try to build this.· As Attorney Sklarz mentioned, it's a 10· ·very small footprint.· The J. Press property is being 11· ·represented by this triangle shape here, and we have 12· ·immediately adjoining neighbors on three sides.· The only 13· ·access is the city sidewalk, city street.· It's the only 14· ·access to be able to build this property. 15· · · · · · · · · So what we have here is a staging plan. 16· ·It's going to be circulated throughout the various 17· ·departments in the city.· Bruce Fisher has already seen this 18· ·on two occasions and is already performing a cursory review 19· ·of this particular document.· I do have copies here with me 20· ·this evening if you wish to have a copy of it. 21· · · · · · · · · But for all intents and purposes, for public 22· ·safety as well as safety of the construction workers -- I 23· ·brought a -- so for safety of the construction workers as 24· ·well as the public, we need to close the city sidewalk once 25· ·we receive proper permitting to do so as well as the parking ·1· ·lane along York Street, which is in this direction -- this ·2· ·is Elm Street -- and take out -- put up Jersey barriers. ·3· ·Jersey barriers are going to have a fence on top of them ·4· ·with screening and literally one lane of York Street for ·5· ·approximately 120 feet is going to be taken up as well. ·6· · · · · · · · · That's our proposal for the city in order to ·7· ·be able to have access for dump trucks, cement trucks, ·8· ·concrete bumps.· We're going to be putting a small tower ·9· ·crane up and material lay-down area, dumpster, porta 10· ·potties, all the essentials that are needed to build a 11· ·four-story building on a postage stamp. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· How long? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· Approximately one year.· The 14· ·sooner we can get it done, the happier that gentleman right 15· ·there is going to be. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. SKLARZ:· For the students coming back in 17· ·2020. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So it means that -- that 19· ·portion of York Street is three lanes, and two of those 20· ·lanes go left and one of those lanes goes straight or right. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· Correct. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· You would be reducing it down 23· ·to one lane of vehicular traffic to go left and one lane 24· ·going right or straight? 25· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· Actually, it's just ·1· ·foreshortening.· The three lanes actually begin to occur ·2· ·right about at the J. Press site. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Right. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· So we're just foreshortening ·5· ·that third lane to turn left.· You still will be able to -- ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· You can fit a couple of cars ·7· ·at the end. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· Exactly. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Some impact in terms of the 10· ·view and then have -- 11· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You'll lose one to two cars of 12· ·storage on the left-hand turn. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And the buses usually take 14· ·the middle lane because they can't make the corner if they 15· ·use the far left, but there's a lot of buses taking that 16· ·corner, city buses, CT Transit buses.· The shuttle doesn't 17· ·really go there. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· That's correct. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It goes straight. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· There will be a pedestrian 21· ·walkway prior to the fencing that will close the sidewalk. 22· ·It will be well marked.· It will be flashing lights and the 23· ·pedestrians will be able to cross the street prior to 24· ·getting close to the construction site and be able to 25· ·proceed up to the corner of York and Elm and then take ·1· ·either a right on Elm or a left across the street. ·2· · · · · · · · · We have already met with Yale.· They're ·3· ·aware that we're not blocking any of their retail ·4· ·establishments.· So access to their retail establishments is ·5· ·going to be unimpeded. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You show a temporary ramp in the ·7· ·sidewalk on the east side of York Street at the bottom.· It ·8· ·seems like you have -- not there.· There you have a ·9· ·temporary plywood ramp in the parking.· On the other side of 10· ·the street, you show the existing sidewalk. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· Yes. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Did you mean to put it as a 13· ·platform and a ramp, or are you actually going to soft cut 14· ·the sidewalk and then repair it? 15· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· We're going to ask Bruce what we 16· ·prefers.· And like I said, there is obviously scrutiny by 17· ·traffic and parking. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Yeah. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· But whatever we disturb 20· ·obviously we can put back.· We're going to be working with 21· ·traffic and parks and recreation and trees, Rebecca, so that 22· ·the two trees that are going to be displaced are going to 23· ·need to be put back.· We're going to work something out with 24· ·the city on those two trees. 25· · · · · · · · · There's one light post that has to get ·1· ·removed.· It will be put back at the same location towards ·2· ·the end of the project. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I won't be driving that way. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So this will be a big ·5· ·building.· When I was looking at the first board, which the ·6· ·context for it -- it's a little bit hard to imagine because ·7· ·it's looking at it from down the street a little bit.· I'm ·8· ·trying to remember what was there before, and I'm just not ·9· ·remembering. 10· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· It was -- 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It was bigger than what was 12· ·there before? 13· · · · · · · · · MR. SKLARZ:· It was three stories. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· It had a tall roof too. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· For the last few 16· ·years, there's been a sort of half empty shell on a third of 17· ·the building. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I remember what's there now. 19· ·I don't remember what was there before.· It strikes me 20· ·that's a bigger building.· From this angle, it looks like it 21· ·dwarfs the building next to it. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You have a lot of larger 23· ·buildings, I think, around it. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. BLASZKA:· The L.L. Bean. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· This jogs my memory. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I have a question.· Is the fourth ·3· ·floor -- is it going to be a public use or is that a private ·4· ·use? ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. SKLARZ:· It's intended to be a café.· We ·6· ·did receive a special exception for a café license with the ·7· ·Board of Zoning Appeals.· It will be public, but we'll ·8· ·actually have it leased to an operator, who will rent it. ·9· ·We'll have to comply with all of the regulations.· But we at 10· ·least got -- we felt by receiving zoning approval for the 11· ·use that it would attract a high-level operator. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Is that another -- so if 13· ·somebody were to visit that fourth-floor location, I presume 14· ·they're not going to be walking into the J. Press store to 15· ·get there.· Is that another door to the right? 16· · · · · · · · · MR. PETRA:· There's another door here. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. BLASZKA:· That's a common lobby for the 18· ·upper tenants. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Okay.· So I think they're 20· ·asking for a waiver with the understanding that the bioswale 21· ·compensates or is more than enough. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Yeah.· We're comfortable with 23· ·that. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· And the copy of the BZA 25· ·decision? ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. SKLARZ:· We will do that as soon as it ·2· ·was -- it was just published, so actually the appeal period ·3· ·has not yet expired. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· That's right. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I don't see anything ·6· ·else. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I move the item. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· One clarification.· There 10· ·doesn't seem to be in the report anything about the 11· ·agreement about the storm water. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· That's a condition under Number 13· ·9. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you, Stacey. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Did you find it? 17· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Yeah. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 19· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. SKLARZ:· Thank you. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· The conditions of approval and 22· ·the standard conditions of approval, is that a new thing or 23· ·am I just noticing that for -- 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· No.· This is one of those 25· ·rare instances where a standard condition of approval just ·1· ·had to be slightly modified.· Perhaps, for clarity, in the ·2· ·future, we should modify them in the additional. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I think there was another one. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· As a standard matter of ·5· ·course, we don't modify this box. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I think it was in one of the ·7· ·other items.· I found it eventually. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· What else we got? ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· 500 Waterfront Street. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you. 11· · · · · · · · · The item is 1558-06 for 500 Waterfront 12· ·Street.· This is a site plan and coastal site plan for the 13· ·gas tank proposal.· You may -- 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Back to the tanks. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· You may have seen this 16· ·before. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We have. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· It was a -- you just 19· ·recently saw it for a referral from BZA in review for the 20· ·coastal, and now we're here again.· Take it away. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Your name and 22· ·address. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. BENBEN:· Stephen Benben, Trident 24· ·Environmental, 385 Church Street, Guilford, Connecticut, 25· ·here on behalf of Gulf Oil.· As staff said, I'm here for ·1· ·site plan review on coastal site plan review for the ·2· ·facility located at 500 Waterfront Street. ·3· · · · · · · · · The application is for the installation of a ·4· ·new 8,000-gallon additive tank, the construction of a new ·5· ·7-million gallon gasoline tank, and installation of new ·6· ·product piping, various valves, and some minor site work for ·7· ·some concrete pads that they'll put in new pumps. ·8· · · · · · · · · If it sounds familiar, it's because I was ·9· ·here before.· We actually had received permission or 10· ·approval from BZA last year for a slightly different 11· ·application, but overall the project is the same relevant 12· ·size of the tanks that's going in. 13· · · · · · · · · While Gulf was getting capital for the 14· ·project, that approval expired, so we had to come back.· So 15· ·they took that opportunity to take another look at the site 16· ·plan to see, you know, if they were kind of getting 17· ·everything they wanted. 18· · · · · · · · · So I have been to BZA.· The project was 19· ·approved by a special exception permit and with this 20· ·commission's referral for a coastal site plan review.· What 21· ·they're doing out here does not constitute a change of its 22· ·existing use. 23· · · · · · · · · Gulf has been here operating here for 24· ·25 years.· It doesn't adversely impact the property itself, 25· ·any of the natural resources, or the coastal review area or ·1· ·the surrounding properties.· We are requesting two waivers, ·2· ·one having to do with storm water management and the other ·3· ·having to do with reflective heat.· We believe we have ·4· ·addressed regulations to the maximum extent possible.· We ·5· ·are requesting approval with the conditions noted in the ·6· ·staff review letter, which was recommending approval with ·7· ·conditions. ·8· · · · · · · · · I can get into the specifics.· I know it's ·9· ·late.· I think everyone is familiar with where we're talking 10· ·about.· The property is separated in two distinct areas. 11· ·One is operations, which is where the trucks come in and 12· ·they get petroleum distributed.· There's also some offices 13· ·and maintenance buildings.· They're not doing any work in 14· ·that portion of the property.· Everything is in the 15· ·remaining property to the west, which is where all the 16· ·storage tanks are located.· They're located within the 17· ·secondary containment area, which is a diked area.· It's an 18· ·EPA federal regulation.· The storage tanks are diked in case 19· ·of a spill.· Everything is going to be located within that 20· ·spill area.· There's very little potential for sediment 21· ·erosion control issues outside of that.· I'll talk a little 22· ·bit about that. 23· · · · · · · · · The 8,000-gallon tank is a relatively small 24· ·tank compared to the rest.· It's about an 8-foot diameter 25· ·tank, 22 feet high.· It will be manufactured offsite at a ·1· ·shop, delivered to the property, and installed on a concrete ·2· ·pad.· The other one is a 7-million-gallon tank, which is a ·3· ·big orange circle on your plans.· That's something that will ·4· ·be constructed in the field. ·5· · · · · · · · · And in order to accommodate that tank, ·6· ·they'll be taking down three other tanks.· And it will kind ·7· ·of sit in the footprint of those other three tanks that are ·8· ·currently out of service.· But they'll have to make room for ·9· ·it and then piping and things that run along in that same 10· ·footprint.· They're going to have to reroute around the new 11· ·tank to service it. 12· · · · · · · · · But it will be serviced with a new fire 13· ·suppression system.· It will be brand new state-of-the-art 14· ·tanks, internal floating roof, so it will reduce or mitigate 15· ·any kind of air emissions.· They are regulated by state and 16· ·federal agencies for air emissions, for storm water as well. 17· ·So really the impact here is quite small. 18· · · · · · · · · As far as the storm water is concerned, in 19· ·the portion where we're not doing any work, it is probably 20· ·100 percent impervious.· It's collected through traditional 21· ·means, through catch basins.· It's routed through a water 22· ·separator and sedimentation chamber so it will drop out.· It 23· ·will treat the water that hits the pavement there before 24· ·going out into the city system on Waterfront Street. 25· · · · · · · · · Any storm water that collects inside the ·1· ·actual containment area where the tanks are, that's also ·2· ·collected, but it's not discharged directly.· So it's ·3· ·collected in catch basins, and they have to manually turn on ·4· ·a pump in order to let any water go out of this area. ·5· · · · · · · · · Just by nature of it, they don't want water ·6· ·infiltrating because if water can infiltrate, a spill can ·7· ·infiltrate.· So they don't want water infiltrating here. ·8· ·But they do retain it until after storm events are over. ·9· · · · · · · · · They have personnel that go out and inspect 10· ·the water, make sure there's no sheens or anything like that 11· ·on it.· When it's clear to be discharged, they turn on the 12· ·pump and pump the water out.· So it really does give a lot 13· ·of time for any water collected to -- for anything to settle 14· ·out. 15· · · · · · · · · They do have other more traditional type 16· ·erosion control measures at the catch basins.· There are 17· ·stone filters, and they regularly maintain silt fence around 18· ·catch basins.· That's to keep out litter and floatables and 19· ·things like that. 20· · · · · · · · · So they're going to continue to do that, 21· ·but -- so that kind of leads me to our first waiver request 22· ·having to do with the storm water management.· So they're 23· ·not doing anything for the portion of the property where 24· ·they're not doing any work, but inside of the tank farm. 25· ·Like I said, they really can't infiltrate, so they're not ·1· ·going to be modifying their storm water drain system.· It ·2· ·seems to be working.· It's meeting the, you know, DEEP ·3· ·guidelines for which they're regulated under for any kind of ·4· ·water quality issues.· So they're going to continue to do ·5· ·what they're doing here. ·6· · · · · · · · · We do -- the other important part of this is ·7· ·with a new tank, we're actually increasing the ·8· ·imperviousness by about 8,000 square feet.· Again, as I ·9· ·mentioned, because they control how the water is discharged 10· ·off the site, they won't see an increase in traditional 11· ·storm water peak rates or volumes, things like that, because 12· ·they control how it goes and when it goes.· So it won't 13· ·really impact the existing infrastructure, even with the 14· ·slightly increased imperviousness that they'll be creating. 15· · · · · · · · · So the second part of the application is the 16· ·coastal site plan review, as I mentioned.· The entire site 17· ·is within the coastal area, coastal management area. 18· ·However, the impacts are negligible here to any kind of 19· ·resources that go along with that coastal management area. 20· · · · · · · · · The nearest work to the coastline is about 21· ·100 feet, and that would just be some new piping that 22· ·they'll be putting in.· The new tanks itself are about 23· ·350 feet from the coast, from the high-tide line.· So we're 24· ·not anticipating any adverse impacts to any of the coastal 25· ·resources here. ·1· · · · · · · · · The other waiver request we're looking for ·2· ·is, as I mentioned, reflective heat index.· The area, again, ·3· ·that they're not doing work is 100 percent pervious, but ·4· ·it's highly -- there's high traffic.· There's not really an ·5· ·opportunity here to try to shade those areas more with new ·6· ·vegetation.· And then the area that they are doing the work ·7· ·inside the containment area, it's not paved.· It's clay ·8· ·materials that have imperviousness and then is overlaid with ·9· ·crushed stone. 10· · · · · · · · · So, again, with the increased 11· ·imperviousness, the new tank will be painted white, so 12· ·they'll hit their -- they'll mitigate any kind of impacts of 13· ·heat by painting the new tank white. 14· · · · · · · · · And so that kind of wraps it up for me. 15· ·Again, it's late.· So if you have any questions, I'm happy 16· ·to answer or give you any more details if you like.· Thank 17· ·you. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I remember it from before. 19· ·It doesn't sound like they're really doing anything 20· ·different than what you did before. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. BENBEN:· No.· The biggest thing is that 22· ·the new gasoline tank that they're putting in is larger. 23· ·The old tank was 100-foot diameter tank.· This is a 140-foot 24· ·diameter tank.· It will be the biggest tank in there, but it 25· ·will be no taller than any of the other tanks that are there ·1· ·right now.· Same height. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· How long is it going ·3· ·to take you to do this? ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. BENBEN:· They started the demo work. ·5· ·They're anticipating that the new tanks will be operational ·6· ·within two years. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· The approval will have to ·8· ·constitute a waiver from the 1-inch retention, I believe. ·9· ·Yes.· I need to rewrite that actually. 10· · · · · · · · · It would -- so it would require a waiver 11· ·from the requirement of Section 60 that storm water system 12· ·shall be designed to collect, retain, and treat the first 13· ·inch of rain on-site.· And I'll have to -- I'll make a 14· ·correction, if that's okay, to the report.· Actually, I put 15· ·it under the wrong requirement.· And then also for 16· ·reflective -- a waiver from the reflective heat requirements 17· ·as well.· The applicant can speak to that if you have any 18· ·more comments. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I move the item. 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Well, good.· Anybody 21· ·want to say anything?· If not, all in favor? 22· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. BENBEN:· Thank you. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Moving to 1558-07 for 19 25· ·Wheeler Street -- ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· You already tabled it.· We ·2· ·did it with the public hearing item.· They tabled it. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Oh, earlier. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Earlier this evening. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· You're right. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Seems like yesterday, but it ·7· ·was actually earlier this evening. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Okay.· So Board of Alder ·9· ·referrals, Stacey? 10· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Yeah.· So the first Waterfront 11· ·Street, that's remaining tabled.· I believe the applicant is 12· ·working with the DPW to schedule a public information 13· ·meeting to discuss -- 14· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· It's actually a public hearing of 15· ·some sort. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Yeah. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Thanks for clarifying that. 18· · · · · · · · · So our next item on the agenda would be 19· ·1558-14, which is an order designating the empty space in, I 20· ·guess, the first-floor lobby adjacent to and on the same 21· ·wall as the Vietnam Memorial plaque for a memorial honoring 22· ·post-Vietnam era veterans.· Staff has written a favorable 23· ·advisory report.· I don't -- I'm pretty confident that it 24· ·didn't violate any of our comprehensive plan goals.· It 25· ·seems like an appropriate and honorable use of the empty ·1· ·space. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mr. Chair -- ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- we have an expression in ·5· ·our denomination that says give honor where honor is due. ·6· ·So I move this item, 1558-14, for approval. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All right.· All in ·8· ·favor? ·9· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· All right.· Mr. Chair, Board 11· ·of Zoning Appeals referrals for your consideration.· The 12· ·first is 1558-15, 904 Quinnipiac Avenue.· This is a referral 13· ·on a coastal site plan review for the construction of eight 14· ·dwelling units where four currently exist in the RM-1 zone. 15· · · · · · · · · You'll note that the staff report is 16· ·currently drafted as a denial for lack of demonstrating 17· ·compliance with the storm water requirements.· There's no 18· ·calculations currently provided to support that the first 19· ·inch is going to be retained on-site, though they do assert 20· ·they're going to capture that water.· So it just needs to be 21· ·worked out further with the city engineer. 22· · · · · · · · · I added a sentence to your report, should 23· ·you find it appropriate and to find any recommendations, 24· ·that if the applicant can complete that to the Board of 25· ·Zoning Appeals' satisfaction, that might be independent ·1· ·grounds for their approval; but as of now, it's drafted as a ·2· ·denial simply for lack of meeting that requirement. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So are they going ·4· ·to -- I mean, what's the status of that?· You don't know? ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· We've informed the applicant of ·6· ·the urgency surrounding meeting, at least that staff would ·7· ·be -- staff wouldn't be recommending approval -- advisory ·8· ·approval from the CPC unless those requirements were met ·9· ·before coming to the CPC because that is definitely not 10· ·approved.· So it's kind of up to the applicant right now to 11· ·work with city staff to make sure that their plans are 12· ·compliant with storm water. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· What should we do? 14· ·What action should we take right now?· Do we just put it 15· ·over? 16· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I think the report says denial 17· ·unless they satisfied the BZA.· We recommend the BZA deny it 18· ·unless they satisfy the BZA between now and then that they 19· ·have completed their storm water calculations. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Yes.· I mean, the BZA is the 21· ·final decision-making body of this.· We're just giving 22· ·advice, which the BZA can take or leave, but our staff has 23· ·made special efforts to be abundantly clear that it's only 24· ·because of the storm water issue that we're recommending 25· ·denial. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That's right. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· If that condition is met, ·3· ·then we wouldn't be recommending this. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· And, also, I think it's -- I just ·5· ·want to clarify with staff.· This all comes back to us for ·6· ·an actual site plan review and coastal site plan review? ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· It will, yes. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· But they first need a special ·9· ·exception from the BZA.· Seems reasonable to me, Mr. Chair, 10· ·that we would advise the BZA to make sure they meet that 11· ·requirement. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Let's do it. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair, I move the item as 14· ·written. 15· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 16· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Great. 18· · · · · · · · · The next item is 1558-16, 1546 Chapel 19· ·Street.· This is an application for a special exception to 20· ·reduce parking, to allow four where six are required. 21· ·They're at the BZA for an additional two dwelling units in 22· ·an existing structure. 23· · · · · · · · · Let's see.· You will note in the staff 24· ·report that the applicant presented to the BZA other 25· ·mitigating factors, such as the walkability of the area, ·1· ·bicycle parking that's been provided or is located nearby, ·2· ·and the access to rail and bus.· There was nobody that spoke ·3· ·for or against the application. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· What did the BZA do? ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Nothing yet. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· They had the public hearing, ·7· ·and they are awaiting your thoughts before voting next ·8· ·month. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I see.· We're 10· ·supposed to have thoughts?· Who's awake down there? 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I just had two cookies. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· What's the cross street for 13· ·this? 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· East of the Boulevard. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Winthrop on one side, Norton 16· ·on the other. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That's right. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· The Seventh Day Adventist is 19· ·that little funny -- there's the green walkway and then 20· ·there's that sitting right there with the Seventh Day 21· ·Adventist that sits kind of on, like, a kitty-corner with a 22· ·big dome kind of thing.· Weird location. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I think perhaps relevantly, 25· ·part of the relief is due to the fact that the applicant's ·1· ·proposing three handicap-accessible units and, therefore, ·2· ·want to provide those -- the ADA-compliant parking spaces. ·3· ·But by doing that, it reduces the space they could otherwise ·4· ·dedicate to increase the number of parking spaces, which ·5· ·they then mitigate by complying with the comprehensive plan ·6· ·in providing said parking.· There's trade-offs I suppose. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· It's not a jammed ·8· ·area. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Not at all. 10· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Because I have to go 11· ·there fairly often and I don't find any problems parking on 12· ·the street right there. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Is there street parking? 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Chapel and Norton and -- it's 15· ·close to Grant Park.· What is it called, that little park 16· ·there? 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Down the street. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Bridge Line. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Same block as the shop. 20· ·There's a store on that block. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· If the commissioner is going to 22· ·look at Google Earth, I'm happy to share my Surface. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Is that your street view, 24· ·Google street view of it? 25· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· This is the street view. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Plenty of parking. ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· There's nobody on that ·3· ·street. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah.· I don't ·5· ·think -- ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Seems reasonable. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We can give them ·8· ·that. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mr. Chair, I move this item. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Well, hold on a second. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· I'll hold on. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Do we recommend 13· ·denial? 14· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· No. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· No.· We recommend -- well, 16· ·staff drafts this as a recommended approval. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I'm reading the finding of 19· ·recommendations, and I'm confused by the word "not." 20· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Why's the word "not" 21· ·in there? 22· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Perhaps a rogue reference 23· ·from an old report. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· In harmony with the general 25· ·purpose and intent -- ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Can we edit that for you ·2· ·before making a motion? ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Because it does say "and ·4· ·therefore recommended denial." ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Therefore recommends ·6· ·approval. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· There you go. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· That was what was confusing. ·9· ·I went straight to the back of the report, which recommended 10· ·denial, but up here it says approve. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Apologies to the commission 12· ·for the confusion and also the concerned attorney in the 13· ·audience. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· ·With those changes, Mr. 15· ·Chair, I move the item. 16· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Didn't she already 17· ·move? 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But not with the changes. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, okay.· We've got 20· ·to further amend it. 21· · · · · · · · · Okay.· All in favor? 22· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· What did we change?· We 24· ·changed the recommendation? 25· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Yeah.· To approval. ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Got rid of the word "not." ·2· · · · · · · · · (Simultaneous discussion.) ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Next item is 1558-17 for 292 ·4· ·Newhall Street.· This is a special exception, again, to ·5· ·allow for zero off-street parking where two are required. ·6· ·They're creating an additional dwelling unit.· This is in ·7· ·regard to an existing mixed use structure. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Same recommendation? ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yes.· This also we are 10· ·recommending approval.· I think our template was very faulty 11· ·this particular month. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Let's see.· In the public 14· ·hearing, the applicant represented that there's never been 15· ·off-street parking on this site and that, in fact, they're 16· ·reducing the parking required on-site because it -- the 17· ·residential use is less parking heavy than the existing 18· ·commercial use that's being replaced.· So I think sort of -- 19· ·that's the sort of independent basis, I suppose, is reducing 20· ·the need. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Mm-hmm.· Okay. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So with the changes, 23· ·changing the recommendation of approval -- 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Getting rid of the "not." 25· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· -- and getting rid of the ·1· ·"not," just for consistency's sake, that would be what's for ·2· ·your consideration. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· Do I hear a ·4· ·motion? ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You hear such motion. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? ·7· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Great.· Next. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· They can't slip 10· ·anything by us. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· This is a nuclear power plant I 12· ·want to open. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Good thing these are all 14· ·reductions of parking, just to make sure you're paying 15· ·attention. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· And think of if we have reduced 17· ·parking requirements of how we'll get home earlier at night. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That's a good point. 19· · · · · · · · · (Simultaneous discussion.) 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· This is Item 1558-18 for 843 21· ·Whalley Avenue.· It's a special exception to reduce parking 22· ·to 19 where 23 are required.· Esteemed Attorney Caleb Hamel 23· ·presented the application at a public hearing last week and 24· ·explained that a minor increase in the second-floor floor 25· ·area in turn increases the parking requirement, but it's ·1· ·otherwise in a walkable area with plenty of municipal ·2· ·parking lots nearby and extra bicycle parking provided ·3· ·on-site. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· What's the -- ·5· ·where is that? ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· From Lyric Hall, before ·7· ·Lina's Café. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Former artist studio.· That's ·9· ·kind of this beige stucco with turquoise -- it looks like it 10· ·belongs in a strip mall. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· It was a hardware store, 12· ·Jackson-Marvin Hardware Store -- 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Really?· I remember 14· ·that. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- where my parents used to 16· ·stash Christmas presents. 17· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· I remember that. A 18· ·great loss. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· There's an organization that 20· ·wants to go in there and lots of people who are going to be 21· ·working down Westville Village who can have lunch at nearby 22· ·restaurants. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· That's right.· We 24· ·could use a little lunch. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Yes, we could. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· That being said, ·2· ·Mr. Chair -- ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- I move 1558-18. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· They're still fixing the -- ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Taking out the "not" and ·8· ·recommending approval. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 10· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. HAMEL:· Thank you. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· You're welcome. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. HAMEL:· My very first zoning hearing 14· ·ever was in Willington.· It went till midnight.· It was on a 15· ·very controversial truck stop.· I was living in New London 16· ·at the time.· After it closed at midnight, I had a two-hour 17· ·drive time.· That was my introduction to this line of work. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Lastly, but certainly not 19· ·least -- 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Definitely not least. 21· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· -- 1558-19 for 232 to 233 22· ·Cedar Street, special exception to increase the allowable 23· ·distance to 1,000 feet for offsite park spaces where 24· ·300 feet is permitted in BA zone.· You'll note that in most 25· ·other zones in the city, 1,000 feet walking distance for ·1· ·offsite parking is the standard.· It happens to be in BA ·2· ·that it's 300.· They're asking for this increase so that ·3· ·they can keep their existing -- existing parking structure ·4· ·that they have.· They have a lot that they've had a ·5· ·long-term lease on for a very long time.· They want to ·6· ·continue that, where the employees would park there on-site. ·7· ·They've demonstrated mitigative measures with a shared ·8· ·parking model among the different shifts of employees as ·9· ·well as the walkability, bicycle options, like the bike 10· ·share ones that are nearby, as well as the bus stops that 11· ·are nearby.· And that is for your consideration. 12· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So they're already 13· ·doing it?· All we're going to do is allow them? 14· · · · · · · · · (Simultaneous discussion.) 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Ask your question. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yes.· So this is the Cornell 17· ·Scott Hill Health Group that's moving their location. 18· ·They're going to -- they want to keep their parking lot that 19· ·they currently use and continue to do that.· The facility is 20· ·moving, so that makes the distance greater, but the parking 21· ·system would stay in place. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Is this related to the property 23· ·disposition that we heard earlier? 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yes, it is.· Yes, it is. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Which we decided to table. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yes.· Actually, I've got ·2· ·lots of issues with this one.· And I tried to stay on point, ·3· ·you know, with it, not necessarily about, you know, the ·4· ·facility, but -- and this may even be the better place to ·5· ·say it since we don't have a big audience here, you know, ·6· ·but just the way that this was noticed for parking and no ·7· ·reference made to what the actual -- it did have a public ·8· ·hearing with BZA and nobody went to the public hearing ·9· ·because it was noticed for parking, special exception for 10· ·parking, for Cornell Hill Scott for parking.· There were no 11· ·people there to speak against the parking because it was 12· ·just a matter of parking. 13· · · · · · · · · Notices go out to 200-foot radius.· And in 14· ·that 200-foot radius, there's over a hundred units.· Out of 15· ·those hundred units, 47 are residential.· Of those 47 16· ·residential units, only 15 are owner-occupied.· And so the 17· ·notice that did go out really didn't go out to the 18· ·neighborhood -- I'll put it like that -- simply because of 19· ·the makeup of that particular area. 20· · · · · · · · · But this is something that's affecting an 21· ·entire -- more than 200 feet, you know.· And, again, with 22· ·what it is that I referenced about the -- what was that 23· ·anyway that they had?· Whatever it was.· The land 24· ·disposition.· You know, as far as the notification to the 25· ·public, it's not been done. ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Are you suggesting that the ·2· ·notice that the BZA sent out to the abutters for the BZA ·3· ·hearing didn't include the language that we're seeing now in ·4· ·the BZA report? ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· The language said city ·6· ·notice board of zoning 232 to 236 Cedar Street, special ·7· ·exception to allow for a distance of 1,000 feet for offsite ·8· ·parking spaces where 300 is permitted.· That's it. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· That's what we have here too. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Right.· But what the offsite 11· ·parking for that special exception doesn't say why.· You 12· ·know what I'm saying?· It doesn't reference what the parking 13· ·is needed for or not needed for.· You know, so I'm not 14· ·saying that they were being deceptive, you know, because 15· ·Cornell Scott is a good -- they're a good -- 16· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Actually, staffers write those, 17· ·so it would have been our staff who wrote that on the -- 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You probably didn't 19· ·understand. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Well, that's what their 21· ·application was.· You can only write what it is that the 22· ·application is. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Are you hinting that there's 24· ·a change of use that needed to be noticed or -- 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· As far as the parking is ·1· ·concerned? ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· I think, Leslie, what you're ·3· ·trying to say is that it is an extremely dense way or a very ·4· ·technical way of talking about the issue.· It doesn't in any ·5· ·way, shape, or form lend itself to an average person ·6· ·understanding that there's a new health facility going up in ·7· ·that location.· Is that fair to say? ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yes. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Because it happens in 10· ·pieces -- right? -- the parking, the land disposition -- 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- and then the site plan. 12· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· There's no discussion of the 13· ·actual facility. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So by the time it gets to 15· ·site plan, will we have a public hearing?· You know, by that 16· ·time, it's, like, so far down the line. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I think that also speaks to some 19· ·of the limitations of our current noticing, which is per 20· ·statute, but, you know, we're also considering ways of 21· ·having things noticed maybe on the website or, you know, 22· ·there's different ways to -- 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· It does, but it also 24· ·concerns me and, you know, with what -- it's not City Plan 25· ·and it's kind of sort of not the language because the ·1· ·language is the language.· But, like, when he said the ·2· ·alders knew about it, you know, and we have an alder here ·3· ·that communicates very well with his constituents.· That's ·4· ·not the case everywhere.· You know, alders know about it, ·5· ·but the residents don't know about it. ·6· · · · · · · · · It's not brought to a -- I found some ·7· ·wording in here.· What do they call it?· Neighborhood ·8· ·planning -- what is that term that they call it?· There was ·9· ·a term.· That was it.· NPA.· Yeah, Neighborhood Planning 10· ·Agency.· ·According to the Connecticut -- I mean New Haven 11· ·zoning, it says neighborhood planning agency review.· Upon 12· ·receiving a request for a special exception, City Plan 13· ·commission, BZA, Board of Alders may refer said request to 14· ·any neighborhood planning agency of jurisdiction if any 15· ·exists.· And that sounds like a CMT to me, Hill North and 16· ·Hill South.· They put planning agency.· We plan things for 17· ·our neighborhood so -- 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· This is one of those 19· ·things where it's the mechanism. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Sounds like it's very specific in 21· ·the statute. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Well, it says any -- 23· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· This would be a great topic for 24· ·the workshop. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· For the workshop.· But, ·1· ·also, there are -- and, again, you know, being not as ·2· ·technically verbose as my esteemed alder is, you know, I'm ·3· ·not exactly sure -- ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I am definitely technically ·5· ·verbose.· Verbose in lots of things, including technical. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I'm not sure how to phrase ·7· ·it just as I did with the land disposition.· You know, there ·8· ·needs to be some more -- there needs to be communication ·9· ·with the community, not -- from the public notice process, 10· ·that's a whole nother workshop and all of that.· But just 11· ·how do you -- how do you have a public hearing about a 12· ·special exception on parking without saying what the parking 13· ·is going to be for? 14· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· That's true. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· And that information not 16· ·getting out to those that are going to be affected by 17· ·whatever that parking is going to be for.· So I know that 18· ·we're supposed to stick what it is we're supposed to stick 19· ·to, but my moral compass -- my moral compass says, you know, 20· ·no.· And because it's related -- 21· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· That's a good topic.· I mean, 22· ·it's not -- since we're going a little off topic, I think 23· ·it's true for a lot of projects that people -- you know, 24· ·we've been getting a lot of requests to make those kinds of 25· ·things more transparent and to improve noticing, and so ·1· ·we're still really, you know, trying to figure out how to do ·2· ·that because that's a really good point that applies. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· There's also -- in the ·4· ·planning considerations, it references the comprehensive ·5· ·plan.· It says the applicant states that the site has been ·6· ·identified as an institutional use in the comprehensive plan ·7· ·of New Haven; but when I looked at the comprehensive plan, ·8· ·that area where the parking lot is and the proposed use is ·9· ·not identified as institutional use.· It's not in the words 10· ·of the lords. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· The area where the parking 12· ·is proposed? 13· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Parking as well as, yes, 14· ·because that's the map right there. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· What's the use of the parcel 16· ·right now? 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I did homework today. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· You certainly did. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· It is downtown travel 20· ·oriented mixed use as well as downtown residential mixed 21· ·use. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· But institutional might be 23· ·one of the "as of right" uses under that. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Institutional is blue. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Or healthcare may be -- ·1· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· That's under other. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Downtown mixed use would sound ·3· ·not to include the institutional use.· I think it was -- ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· There's a zone and then ·5· ·there's uses inside. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· The mixed use would probably not ·7· ·necessarily preclude an institutional use. ·8· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We don't have institutional ·9· ·zones because -- 10· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mixed use.· According to the 11· ·comprehensive plan, the proposed use for that neighborhood 12· ·is not institutional for that lot where this work is to be 13· ·done.· It is not part of the comprehensive plan. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Is this institutional or is it 15· ·healthcare? 16· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· It's all of the above. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But health and medical falls 18· ·under institutional. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· What I'm about to say is not 20· ·to be dismissive of anything you just said because I totally 21· ·hear that because we're thinking about it and you're clearly 22· ·thinking about it as a commission, so we need to address 23· ·that.· But as far as this particular application goes, 24· ·there's a long history of variances on this particular 25· ·property that permit each and every use that they are going ·1· ·to move to this site.· So that was all as of right for ·2· ·longstanding existing use variances that permitted it to ·3· ·occur.· And then they presented to City Plan.· Just like any ·4· ·other applicant, they came in and said, "Here is the use. ·5· ·Here is the parking requirement.· Here is the use.· Here is ·6· ·the parking requirement.· This is what we're required to do, ·7· ·and this is how we meet it." ·8· · · · · · · · · So this was literally the only thing -- that ·9· ·distance requirement was literally the only thing they 10· ·needed. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I'm assuming it came before us. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· That's why you have 13· ·commissioners that look at the other side of it. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Question.· What is RWC? 16· ·What is that?· The RWC is proposed to front Minor Street 17· ·between the two existing buildings.· That's under the 18· ·planning consideration, but I didn't see any definition of 19· ·what RWC is. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· RWC is another -- 21· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· What does that mean?· Under 22· ·the planning consideration, page 2. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· It might be one of the names 24· ·of the entities that's actually -- it's supposed to be -- 25· ·it's the Cornell Scott Hill or related entity.· It should be ·1· ·one in the same.· We can definitely correct that to -- ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So whatever that wellness ·3· ·place -- ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yeah. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Okay.· Regional Wellness. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Regional Wellness Center. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· That's what it is, ·8· ·the Regional Wellness Center.· That's what they're proposing ·9· ·to put there. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That must be what that is. 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· But I think -- what 12· ·do we do about this one?· I mean, I sort of felt that the 13· ·place where the community could come in and say, "Wait a 14· ·minute," is not this but the disposition, that they 15· ·shouldn't -- the city shouldn't essentially sell a piece of 16· ·land without letting the community know what -- 17· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Is there still a hearing in front 18· ·of the Board of Alders about selling this land? 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mm-hmm. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· At some point it's like the 21· ·community gets boxed out, you know. 22· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Right. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· We can speak if there's a 24· ·public hearing, you know, if there's a public hearing.· But 25· ·as a right -- you know, there are certain things that are as ·1· ·a right and if you stick to the technicals, then as a right ·2· ·you can say whatever it is that you want.· And you can't ·3· ·say -- we can't say that Cornell Hill Scott has not been a ·4· ·good partner in the neighborhood, but this one particular ·5· ·one is where there's not been, you know -- ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Right. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· -- public input. ·8· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· We did send it back, ·9· ·didn't we? 10· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· True.· You tabled the 11· ·disposition earlier. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Until after. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Encouraged them to. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Exactly.· Which will be 15· ·communicated back to the applicant that the community 16· ·outreach is sort of a condition to getting it off the table. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· That will be the appropriate 18· ·forum. 19· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Can we table a referral from 20· ·the BZA? 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· They're going to act 22· ·regardless with our advice or not. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All we do is advise 24· ·them. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· We aren't giving them the ·1· ·property, so they can't build it without the property.· If ·2· ·you give them the parking relief, it doesn't make a ·3· ·difference because they don't have the property. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· That's where the city has the ·5· ·maximum say. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Leverage. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We don't have to dispose of ·8· ·our property. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· The LCI referral will go back to 10· ·the Board of Alders for a committee hearing; right? 11· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· No.· It has to be voted on by 12· ·the Board of Alders, but there are some LCI sliver lot 13· ·disposals that are voted on by the board without a hearing. 14· ·There's multiple touches; right?· There's PAD.· There's this 15· ·commission.· But we have -- because we have to approve all 16· ·dispositions, if we wanted it to have a public hearing, we 17· ·could have it.· It could happen. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Is it typical to have one or not? 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· It depends on the size and 20· ·scope of the disposition.· If it's something that this 21· ·commission recommends as a silver lot, if PAD recommends it, 22· ·typically we wouldn't have a public hearing.· But we could. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I think another thing to keep in 24· ·mind about this application is it's for the -- they are 25· ·using, like, a traffic management plan, which we generally ·1· ·would encourage a shared parking plan.· So we also don't ·2· ·want to set up a precedent for using that type of approach ·3· ·for other facilities. ·4· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· The shared parking? ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Yeah. ·6· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· We do or do not want to set a -- ·7· ·have that precedent? ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I think we want to consider that ·9· ·a little bit on its own merit, that they are doing kind of 10· ·shared parking proposal. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But they're doing a shared 12· ·parking with their own parking. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· No.· Actually, it's with a 14· ·church. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· That's right.· They lease 16· ·from the church. 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Right. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So the area that they're 19· ·leasing is the area that they're talking about using? 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That's right.· Now it's a 21· ·thousand feet away, the church. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And its lot. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· And its lot. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· More precisely its lot. 25· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· So -- ·1· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· A lot of churches lease their ·2· ·parking. ·3· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Right.· That's how ·4· ·churches stay alive. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Barely.· Barely. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So what to do, what to do. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Well, I mean, I think our ·8· ·options are to -- I think we have to act within our purview. ·9· ·We can give them advice.· We can give them no advice.· We 10· ·could advise them to approve or disapprove.· We should have 11· ·a rationale for either one of those.· We could give no 12· ·advice. 13· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· The considerations are laid out 14· ·on the second page too. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Right. 16· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· We can reconsider our responses 17· ·to some of those considerations. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· So is this a real 19· ·recommendation to recommend denial? 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· No.· This is another -- 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Template problem. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· -- template problem. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Commissioner Radcliff may 24· ·decide not to -- 25· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Well, it's basically not to ·1· ·be essentially in harmony with the general purpose and ·2· ·intent of the ordinance.· And the general welfare will be ·3· ·served?· Not the general.· The specific welfare will be ·4· ·served, but not the general welfare. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Does BZA have a clock that they ·6· ·have to do something at the next meeting? ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I don't think -- it's ·8· ·65 days, I think.· I think it's the same as CPC.· I think ·9· ·they would have one more month theoretically.· I'm pretty 10· ·sure. 11· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Well, why couldn't we 12· ·say that members of the -- you said that lack of notice of 13· ·the use and its controversy in the community really should 14· ·require them to go back and have conversations with the 15· ·community before this thing is passed, before this thing is 16· ·voted on.· Can we do that? 17· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I think we would be cautious 18· ·about putting out a deficiency in notice if they're in 19· ·compliance with the state regs. 20· · · · · · · · · So I think we would have to -- my own 21· ·feeling is we would have to word it differently.· We could 22· ·give a recommendation and express concern about the -- or 23· ·advise them to educate themselves about the public concern 24· ·about this.· Right?· I was actually there at the BZA. I 25· ·hardly ever go to BZA meetings, but I went there for I don't ·1· ·know what reason. ·2· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, god. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· There was a bunch of stuff. ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Probably for this Westville ·5· ·Village thing.· And I don't recall public testimony. ·6· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· There wasn't any. ·7· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Nobody showed up ·8· ·because they didn't know. ·9· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· There was none. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I wouldn't say, like, the 11· ·notice was defective because probably -- 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· The notice went out -- 13· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Yeah.· Nobody came -- 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We could say that members of 15· ·the commission are aware that the project for which the 16· ·special exception is being -- project that this applicant 17· ·wants a special exception for is controversial and it would 18· ·benefit the BZA to get more information. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· How about that? 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· You could advise them to 21· ·reopen up the public hearing, which they have the ability to 22· ·do.· They don't have to.· They've closed it, but they don't 23· ·have to take our advice to reopen the public hearing based 24· ·on us having heard there was controversy.· Would there be 25· ·anything wrong with us advising them to reopen the public ·1· ·hearing given the fact that we've heard there's controversy? ·2· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I think that sounds better than ·3· ·to deny it on reasons that are not contained within the ·4· ·application, because I think you have to base your denial on ·5· ·what's actually on the application and not based on ·6· ·information that's not. ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We're making a recommendation ·8· ·based on information one of our commissioner has by living ·9· ·in the neighborhood.· Right?· So it's not from the packet. 10· ·It's not from the report, but it's from the fact that we are 11· ·commissioners who live in this city and we hear things. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Yeah. 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So -- and we're not 14· ·recommending denial. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· No. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We're not recommending 17· ·anything other than they should consider -- 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Consider reopening 19· ·the public hearing, give more adequate notice. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Just to play devil's 21· ·advocate, though, it would be asking the board -- the zoning 22· ·board to reopen a public hearing to consider testimony not 23· ·relevant to the special exception criteria because they're 24· ·only looking at the same criteria that you're looking at, 25· ·which is:· Does the shared parking model comply with the ·1· ·criteria on the page?· So to reopen it might invite ·2· ·testimony that's about permitted use or -- ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· But that happens all the ·4· ·time at BZA. ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Everybody talks about ·6· ·everything. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yeah.· Everything -- it's ·8· ·almost like everything is allowed. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Aren't they, in theory, supposed 10· ·to ignore that? 11· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Yes. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· They're supposed to ignore 13· ·it. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· It's complicated. 15· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Yeah.· And we don't want to 16· ·get -- 17· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· I think one of the reasons why 18· ·we didn't open a public hearing for another item earlier 19· ·today was -- that was one reason. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Which is why I'm glad it's 21· ·at the end. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I was willing to do that. 23· ·Let it be known. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· If we're looking at our boards 25· ·and commissions and want them to follow certain protocol -- ·1· ·it's just a thought.· Again, we can look at the special ·2· ·permit consideration on the back of the page if there's ·3· ·something in here that could strengthen our argument for the ·4· ·BZA to reopen the public hearing.· I'm sure that would be -- ·5· ·maybe that's a suggestion or we can look at the ·6· ·considerations that if the BZA -- like, what's within their ·7· ·actual purview and is there anything there that we're ·8· ·questioning. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You can also punt this probably 10· ·to the BZA in the form of saying we don't have -- I mean, 11· ·our advice could be anything.· It could be we don't have an 12· ·issue with the narrow scope of the application; however, we 13· ·want to make sure you're aware that -- 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· We're surprised that there 15· ·was no public input to understand better the possible impact 16· ·of the special exception on the shared parking regimen on 17· ·the life of the neighborhood. 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· That's exactly -- 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· How about that? 20· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Can you say that just one more 21· ·time so it's clear? 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Thank you. 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I mean, we can give no 24· ·recommendation and say that this commission was disappointed 25· ·and concerned that there was no record of public testimony ·1· ·about a proposal that might very well have impacts on ·2· ·traffic and parking in the neighborhood that folks would ·3· ·object to. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Traffic and parking. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And leave it at that.· And ·6· ·then they see no recommendation and we're surprised about ·7· ·this lack of public testimony, and then they would decide ·8· ·whether or not they would want to reopen or do whatever they ·9· ·want with it. 10· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· I think you can just say lack of 11· ·public interest because you've already sent back the land 12· ·disposition for more public input. 13· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yeah. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· It's consistent with that 15· ·earlier recommendation; right? 16· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I was trying to peg it to -- 17· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Hinting at criteria never -- 18· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Because of the earlier case, 19· ·right. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· I said though hinting to 21· ·special exception criteria never hurts, which Alder Marchand 22· ·did -- 23· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I attempted to do. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· -- quite succinctly. 25· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· If you're satisfied with that ·1· ·language, I will listen to the recording again and type it ·2· ·word for word in the report. ·3· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· And the impact on the ·4· ·resulting traffic patterns. ·5· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Right. ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Right. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· What he said.· In the ·8· ·meantime, I'll -- ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· So that would be a no 10· ·recommendation and the finding of concern and surprise at 11· ·the lack of any record or public testimony about the 12· ·potentially negative effect on the resulting traffic 13· ·patterns of this particular application. 14· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Great.· That sounds -- 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Does that sound okay? 16· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· That sounds good, yeah. 17· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Should I move it thus? 18· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Thus. 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes.· Move it thus. 20· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Just -- I'm just -- so they've 21· ·been asked to do a public hearing.· Do you feel like you'll 22· ·get notice of that?· I mean, how do you -- 23· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· We -- I'll keep an eye on 24· ·it.· I'll keep an eye on it.· But, also, I'm expecting to 25· ·probably get a call from Evan or at least the management ·1· ·team will get a call because of the land disposition, you ·2· ·know, so that will put Cornell Scott and community people at ·3· ·the table for a conversation so that there may not be an ·4· ·issue. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I would recommend reaching ·6· ·out to the alder as well. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. WOODS:· Yeah. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· I will reach out to the ·9· ·alder. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I bet you will. 11· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Mm-hmm. 12· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Mr. Chair, the next item -- 13· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Shall we vote, Mr. Chair? 14· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Yes. 15· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Why don't you call the vote. 16· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 17· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 18· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Is that everybody? 19· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Is everybody okay? 20· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Yes.· Thank you. 21· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Item carries as moved. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Thank you for your 23· ·correction to the findings.· Much appreciated. 24· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· We won't be voting on minutes 25· ·today.· The last item on the agenda is 1556-02. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· The last item. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Staff report correction. ·3· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Yeah.· Last month we voted on a ·4· ·site plan review for the construction of six residential ·5· ·dwelling units at 132 Sheldon Terrace, and the staff ·6· ·report -- it said four and six in two different places.· So ·7· ·we're just asking that we vote to correct the staff report ·8· ·to say six residential dwelling units across the report ·9· ·because that's what was approved. 10· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Who can vote on this?· The 11· ·people who were at the last meeting or, like, who heard? 12· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Probably -- 13· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· That would be most 14· ·preferred, but individuals that are familiar with what we're 15· ·talking about -- 16· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Was this in early June or 17· ·May? 18· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· This was just last month. 19· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Not at the special but at the 20· ·regular? 21· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· Regular. 22· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· Yeah.· I believe so. 23· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· Actually, it was two months ago. 24· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· April? 25· · · · · · · · · MS. DAVIS:· It says in the report.· Sorry. ·1· ·It was last month.· It was May. ·2· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Ed was here, Leslie, Ernest, ·3· ·and me. ·4· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Good. ·5· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· You only need three; right? ·6· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Right. ·7· · · · · · · · · MS. MONTESANO:· So for the record, could you ·8· ·just say again who is voting. ·9· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Ed Mattison, Leslie 10· ·Radcliffe, Ernest Pagan, and Elias Estabrook can vote. 11· · · · · · · · · MR. ZINN:· So that means that Kevin switches 12· ·out, you're the alternate, and Adam, you can vote or be a -- 13· ·abstain. 14· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I will not vote, nor will I 15· ·make the motion since I -- so someone else should do that. 16· · · · · · · · · MR. ESTABROOK:· Mr. Chair, I move to approve 17· ·the staff report correction 1556-02. 18· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· All in favor? 19· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 20· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Not voting. 21· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· He didn't vote. 22· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· He didn't vote. 23· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· He must have a good 24· ·reason. 25· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· I wasn't there. ·1· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Oh, you weren't ·2· ·there. ·3· · · · · · · · · (Simultaneous discussion.) ·4· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· Mr. Chair -- ·5· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Are we moving to ·6· ·adjourn? ·7· · · · · · · · · MR. MARCHAND:· -- I move we adjourn. ·8· · · · · · · · · MS. RADCLIFFE:· Move to adjourn. ·9· · · · · · · · · CHAIRPERSON MATTISON:· Okay.· All in favor? 10· · · · · · · · · VOICES:· Aye. 11· · · · · · · · · (HEARING ADJOURNED AT 11:32 P.M.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25