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Erabaki Eskubidea Helburu Elkarlanerako Prest, Modua Eta Denborak Adostu Behar

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Erabaki Eskubidea Helburu Elkarlanerako Prest, Modua Eta Denborak Adostu Behar TERMOMETROA MARIAN BEITIALARRANGOITIA - MARKEL OLANO Erabaki eskubidea helburu elkarlanerako prest, modua eta denborak adostu behar Marian Beitialarrangoitia (Legazpi, 1968) EH Bilduko Eusko Legebiltzarreko parlamentaria eta Hernaniko alkate ohia da. Markel Olano (Beasain, 1965) EAJko biltzarkidea da Gipuzkoan eta lurraldeko diputatu nagusi ohia. Autogobernuaz jarduteko bildu ditugu. Adostasun nagusia: Euskal Herria subjektu politiko gisa eta bere erabaki eskubidea ordenamendu juridikoetan finkatu behar dira. Desadostasuna denboretan da. | XABIER LETONA | Argazkiak: Dani Blanco Autogobernuari begira hainbat urrats batean, burujabetza nahi hori estal- rretxe lehendakariak nahi izan zuen eman dira azken hamarkadetan Eus- tzeko egin zen. Urrats praktikoak erabaki eskubidea finkatu, hartutako kal Herrian. Non gaude orain? Zein da pentsatzeko aukera dugu orain. erabakiak gure borondatearen une honetan autogobernuaz egiten M. Olano: Momentu batean argi ondorio izan zitezen eta ez tresneria duzuen diagnostikoa? ikusi zen Gernikako Estatutua eta konstituzionalaren araberakoak. Markel Olano: Une honetan bada- Foru Hobekuntzaren bidetik egin- go autogobernuan urrats berri bat dako bideek ez zutela etorkizunik. Espainian eredu federalaz hitz egiten emateko aukera, bai Euskal Herrian Ibarretxe lehendakaria izan zen hori hasi da berriz. Espero duzue zerbait eta, lidergo puntu batekin, baita ikusarazi zuena. Berak orduan egin- hausnarketa horietatik? EAEn ere. Paraleloan, bakea jorra- dako diagnostikoak orain ere balio M. Beitialarrangoitia: Estatuaren tzeko aukera berriak ireki dira eta, du. Irakurketa hartan, zein zen aldetik ezin da ezer espero eta ez beraz, orain arte bai jarrera politiko- Espainiako ikuspegia euskal autogo- dut uste Estatuak benetako izaera an eta bai ikuspegi estrategikoan oso bernuari buruz? Estatua ez zen demokratikoa erakutsiko duenik. bereiziak ziren tradizio politikoak aldebiko ikuspegia jorratzen ari eta Aldebikotasunaz hitz egin duzu bateratzeko aukera dugu. Hemen erabaki subjektu bakarra finkatzen Markel, baina horretarako alde eta nazioartean erabakitzeko esku- zuen, Espainiako nazioa; eta ikuspe- bakoitzak bestea aitortu behar du bidea gauzatzeko abagunea bizi da gi juridiko eta politikotik, Estatua- eta gaur egun Estatuak ez du aitor- eta aukera probestu beharra dago. ren tresneria guztiak subjektu hori tzen Euskal Herria subjektu politi- Marian Beitialarrangoitia: Auto- nagusitzen zuen, Gernikako Estatu- koa denik eta ez honek bere etorki- gobernuan eta bakea gauzatzerako- tuak hasieran zuen aldebiko ikuspe- zuna modu libre eta demokratikoan an, bietan dugu aukera bat eta, gai- gia urardotuz. Horren aurrean Iba- erabakitzeko eskubidea duenik. Utz nera, gizartearen eskari bat ere bai: diezaiogun paretaren aurka jotzeari eman ditzagun urratsak erabaki eta ikus dezagun hemen egindako eskubidearen inguruan. EAEn eta “EAEn eta Nafarroan lanarekin nola gainditu litekeen Nafarroan eszenatoki berriak ireki berau, herritarrek eskatzen diguten dira eta horrek lurralde zatiketa eszenatoki berriak ireki erabaki eskubide hori egikaritzeko, praktikan gainditzen hasteko aukera dira eta horrek lurralde horretarako gehiengoak badira eta. ematen digu. Estatuak Trantsizioan zatiketa praktikan Abertzale eta ez abertzale artean egin zuen antolaketa kinkan dago gainditzen hasteko topatu behar ditugu bide berri eta hori ez da hainbeste Kataluniak aukera ematen digu” horiek, ados, baina ezin dugu utzi ez duelako finantzaziorik edo abertzale ez direnek erabaki deza- hemen autogobernua nahiko garatu M. Beitialarrangoitia ten, abertzaleen arteko akordiorik ez delako. Egin zen hura, neurri lortzen ez dugulako. 40 2014KO UZTAILAREN 27A MARIAN BEITIALARRANGOITIA-MARKEL OLANO - TERMOMETROA Gipuzkoako Batzar Nagusietan egin genuen elkarrizketa; argazkikoak hil berri den Nestor Basterretxearen eskulturak dira. M. Olano: Badirudi haize berriak nahian. Zuen iritziz noraino iritsi dai- detzari begira dagoelako, hango daudela Espainiako politikan, baina teke ponentziaren lana? Gobernuak telefonoa hartu ere ez zaharrak berri. Duela gutxi entzun M. Beitialarrangoitia. Ponentziak dionean egiten. Lehenengo hemen nuen irrati elkarrizketa batean Pedro badu lan bat egiteko eta Nafarroako egin behar da prozesu hori eta gero Sanchez PSOEko idazkari berria eta Legebiltzarrean ere antzeko lan bat Madrili eskatu erabakitakoa errespe- argi utzi zuen zein zen subjektu egin beharko da, subkjetu politikoa ta dezala. politikoa, Espainiako nazioa. Bere Euskal Herria delako. Ondoren, planteamendu federalistan berriz gure errealitatea kontuan hartuta eta Baina oraingoz behintzat, elkarlana proposatzen da kafea guztientzat. erabaki eskubidean oinarrituta, baino gehiago azaleratzen da zuen Gure helburu nagusia subjektu poli- lurralde bakoitzak erabaki beharko arteko liskarra eta ezadostasuna. tikoa finkatzea da, Euskal Herria, du zer izan nahi duen. Ponentziaren Non dira oztopoak? eta hortik abiatuta gure inguruko hastapenean, dena den, ez zen lortu M. Olano: Nire ikuspegia poliedri- errealitate instituzional eta estatale- berau EAJ eta EH Bilduren arteko koa da, ea lortzen dudan sintetiza- kin nahi ditugun harremanak ezarri- akordio batetik abiatzea, non argi tzea. Lehenik egiten dugun galdera ko ditugu. Trantsiziotik datorkigun azalduko zen ponentziak ez zuela da ea honek prozesu abertzale bat autogobernu maila, bere muga eta onartuko erabaki eskubidean oina- izan behar duen, eta denon erantzu- akats guztiekin, ona izan da herri rrituko ez zen ezer. na da ezetz; helburua ahalik eta honetarako. Gernikako Estatutuan Tamalez, beste akordio batzuen adostasun zabalenak lortzea litzate- Euskal Herria argi ageri da subjektu gainean hasi zen eta beste era bate- ke. Bigarrenik, hor dugu lurralde politiko gisa, baina gero portaera ra. Orain, urtebete galtzeko arriskua zatiketa. Guk prozesu honetan sub- instituzionalak aldatu egin dira apur- du ponentziak. Diagnostikoak egi- jektu politiko konfederal bat defini- ka eta Espainiako politikagintzan nak daude, beraz, oraingo lana da tu nahi dugu eta hori Euskal Herria ikuspegi monolitikoa finkatu da, las- finkatzea nola lortuko den erabaki litzateke. Ibarretxeren egitasmoak ter Kataluniari emango zaion eran- eskubidea egikaritzea, eta gainera ere hortik jo zuen. Beraz, adostasun tzunean argi azaleratuko dena. elkarrekin, ekainaren 8an Gure ahalik eta zabalena bai, baina beto Esku Dago ekimenak adierazi beza- eskubiderik gabe. Marianek urtebete Eusko Legebiltzarrean Autogobernu la. Markel eta ni hemen ados gaude, galtzeaz hitz egin du, baina oso Ponentzia jorratzen ari da une hone- baina gero entzuten dut Ortuzar garrantzitsua da hasieratik saiakera tan. EAJk abiarazi zuen, estatus Madrilen eta hark esaten duena ez egitea, bestela prozesuak irudi aber- berrian erabaki eskubidea eta Esta- dator bat Markelek dioenarekin, tzalea hartuko luke hasieratik eta tuarekiko aldebikotasuna lortu hura batez ere Madrilgo mintzaki- hori txarra litzateke. Ponentziak, 2014KO UZTAILAREN 27A 41 TERMOMETROA - MARIAN BEITIALARRANGOITIA-MARKEL OLANO gutxi gorabehera, urte bukaera arte jarraituko du agerraldien fasearekin eta gero proposamenen garaia eto- rriko da, baina hor erdian udal eta foru hauteskundeak daude eta honek dakarren lehiaren ondorioz –batez ere EAJ eta ezker abertza- learen artekoa–, distortsio esangu- ratsua gertatzeko arriskua dago. Ortuzarrek esaten duena? Oso logi- koa da eta zera da, kontzertu eko- nomikoa badugu, kontzertu politi- koa ere lortu behar dugula. M. Beitialarrangoitia: Gu ere ez gara planteatzen ari prozesu aber- tzale bat, baina gutxiengo batek planteatzen den helburu demokrati- ko minimo hori onartzen ez badu, horrek praktikan beto eskubidea M. Beitialarrangoitia: “Zer da elkarrekin lor dezakeguna? Horri eman behar diogu dakar. lehentasuna edozeren gainetik, areago jakinda bakoitzak bere aldetik jota ez M. Olano: Baina ez gaitezen aurre- dugula helburua lortuko”. ratu, gutxieneko hori onartzen ez dutela ikusaraztea ere oso garrantzi- behar dira eta uste dut alderdi guz- duan nola kokatu nahi dugun eta, tsua da. tiak ez direla hori egiten ari. Presa funtsean, zer izan nahi dugun. M. Beitialarrangoitia: Herri ez da ona, baina denbora pasatzen honek erabaki eskubidean oinarri- uztea ere ez. Funtsean, Ortuzarrek Ibarretxe Planaren garaian argi ikusi tuko ez den ezer onartuko ez duela dioen bezala, proposamenaren zen ez zegoela estrategia bateratu hasieratik garbi uztea ere oso oinarrian EAJren mintzakidea bat hura aurrera eramateko. Orain garrantzitsua zen. Hori onartu nahi Madril izatea bada, hor arazoak ere, Eusko Legebiltzarreko ponentzia ez duen gutxiengoaren betoa non- ikusten ditut; eta proposamenen honetan, berriz hanka sartze bertsua baitetik hautsi behar da eta horreta- oinarrian erabaki eskubidea bada, egingo da? rako aritu behar dugu elkarlanean. adostasuna errazagoa izango da. M. Beitialarrangoitia: Horregatik M. Olano: Baina Marian, zalantza- M. Olano: Gaia erabaki eskubidea- esan dut lehen Gure Esku Dago tik kanpo dago Eusko Legebiltza- ren inguruan orain proposamen ekimenean jendeak eskutik ikusi rrean gehiengoa abertzalea dela… zehatzak egitea balitz, EAJk ez luke gintuela eta hala nahi gaituela. M. Beitialarrangoitia: Baina horretarako arazorik, Estatutu Orduko ezaugarri garrantzitsua zen gehiengo hori praktikan artikulatu Berriaren inguruan Ibarretxe lehen- ez zegoela gizarte mailako aktiba- behar da… dakariaren garaian egin zena atera- ziorik; orain bada eta oraindik bizia- M. Olano: Borondaterik ez duena- ko luke eta kito. Baina hau prozesu go ere beharko du. Gizarteak eska- ri hasieratik
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