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Parliamentary Debates (Hansard) Thursday Volume 494 18 June 2009 No. 94 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Thursday 18 June 2009 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; Tel: 0044 (0) 208876344; e-mail: [email protected] 409 18 JUNE 2009 410 some fiddles in postal voting, but we must look much House of Commons more seriously at encouraging all-postal ballots, because that is the best way to prevent the fascists from being Thursday 18 June 2009 elected to represent our nation. Mr. Streeter: The Electoral Commission certainly The House met at half-past Ten o’clock supports a thorough modernisation of electoral processes in this country and has made recommendations to the PRAYERS Government, but the electoral systems that we employ in this country are very much a matter for this House, The Clerk at the Table having informed the House of not the Electoral Commission. the unavoidable absence of the Speaker from this day’s sitting, the Chairman of Ways and Means took the Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): Is it Chair as Deputy Speaker (Standing Order No. 3). not a fact that people vote in large numbers when these two circumstances apply: first, they think that the body that is being elected matters to them; and, secondly, Oral Answers to Questions they think that their vote will actually make a difference— that their vote counts? Are not those the issues that we, not the Electoral Commission, ought to consider so that we make our electoral system fit for purpose? ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE Mr. Streeter: There are, of course, a number of issues that affect voter turnout at all elections. It might interest The hon. Member for South-West Devon, representing the House to know that the probable figure for turnout the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, at the European elections this year was 34 per cent., was asked— which was down on the figure of 38.5 per cent. five Electoral Systems years previously. However, a number of issues affect voter turnout, and the hon. Gentleman is quite right 1. John Robertson (Glasgow, North-West) (Lab): that, although some are for the Electoral Commission What recent assessment the Electoral Commission has to consider, many are for this House and the political made of the potential effects on levels of voting of the parties in it. use of different electoral systems; and if he will make a statement. [280570] Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): May I suggest to my hon. Friend that it would be useful for the Mr. Gary Streeter (South-West Devon): The Electoral Electoral Commission to carry out a full investigation Commission informs me that, although it collects turnout into, and produce a report on, the recent European figures after each election, it has not undertaken research elections? Most of us believe that the prospect of voting on the impact on turnout of different electoral systems. for a list puts people off voting, but that people do like However, the commission does provide information to to vote for an individual elected representative. As the electors, through its public awareness campaigns, on the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane) way in which different electoral systems work, and on just said, a system that allows an extremist party to be how they may cast their vote. elected with a small number of votes is not a system that we should encourage. John Robertson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his answer. I have always felt that the Electoral Commission Mr. Streeter: The Electoral Commission is carrying should look in more detail at the different electoral out a survey of the effectiveness of the recent elections systems, particularly as we have so many in the United to the European Parliament, and I entirely agree with Kingdom as a whole. What was the turnout when the right hon. Gentleman that a number of factors have electronic voting was used, and with postal voting? to be taken into account. However, the electoral system that we put in place for future European Parliaments, or Mr. Streeter: The Electoral Commission is certainly for any election that takes place in the United Kingdom, prepared to carry out the research that the hon. Gentleman is a matter for this House, not for the Electoral Commission. has in mind if the Government ask it to do so. I am afraid that I do not have figures on turnout using electronic voting and postal voting, but the number of people who vote by post has increased significantly CHURCH COMMISSIONERS since 2000, and now roughly 15 per cent. of those who exercise their vote do so by postal means. The hon. Member for Middlesbrough, representing the Mr. Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): Is it not a Church Commissioners, was asked— fact that we have elected two Jew-hating racists to represent us in the European Parliament—we have done Surface Water Drainage Charges so in the form of British National party electors—even though in Yorkshire the BNP got fewer votes in 2004? 2. Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York) (Con): What What is the reason? In the 2004 European Parliament assessment he has made of the effect on the Church’s elections, there was an all-postal ballot and almost finances of the new system of charging for surface twice as many people voted. I understand that there are water run-off on church property. [280571] 411 Oral Answers18 JUNE 2009 Oral Answers 412 The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Sir Stuart specific point. I said that it was encouraging that the Bell): I estimate that surface water charges by area will Church, through the Synod and the Archbishops Council, cost the Church of England at least £5 million and a was working with scouting and other organisations. further £10 million for highways drainage contributions. The Archbishops Council has led the way in this matter The effect of these cost increases on individual parish on behalf of the Church, along with the Church churches and cathedrals will vary, but I assure the hon. Commissioners, but the House has to give, as I think it Lady that every church will face an increase. has done, a strong message to Ofwat in addition to all the other representations that have been made. Miss McIntosh: I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that answer. Does he agree that there should be a Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire) (Con): I moratorium on the imposition of those charges until a thank the hon. Gentleman for what he has said, but complete impact assessment has taken place? Will he urge him to redouble his efforts. As he may be aware, I support the early-day motion to that effect which stands have seen and corresponded with the chief executive of in my name and those of my right hon. and hon. Ofwat. Although charming and courteous, he has not Friends? Will he also look at the formula that Yorkshire delivered as he should have. Does the hon. Gentleman Water, which serves my constituency, has come up with? agree that it is extraordinary that the body set up to It causes the least damage where the introduction of protect the public is creating this appalling problem? those charges applies. Will he once again approach the chief executive and the appropriate Ministers? Sir Stuart Bell: I am grateful to the hon. Lady. We will certainly look at any proposal or scheme seeking to Sir Stuart Bell: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. ensure that the least possible damage is done to churches Among other things, Ofwat is misdirecting itself on as a result of water charges. We have heard some these issues. It seems to be suggesting that the new encouraging noises from Ofwat and the Government, charging regime is an ecologically sound policy. Let me but we hope for something more tangible and, from the say that the Church takes environmental issues seriously, Church’s point of view, for a broad, permanent exemption. and that we do not necessarily accept that argument. I That is what we are seeking to achieve with Ofwat. refer the hon. Gentleman to my statement in Hansard on 5 February at column 972, in which I asked the David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): Government to intervene robustly on behalf of the The Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural churches and other organisations. I will be happy to Affairs, of which I am a member, is undertaking a repeat that request to the Government. review of Ofwat’s charging policies, and we had the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies), before us yesterday. He made it ELECTORAL COMMISSION COMMITTEE quite clear that Ofwat has not only a brief but a duty to ensure that charging systems are fair and avoid creating hardship. Can I suggest to the Second Church Estates The hon. Member for South West Devon, representing Commissioner, my hon. Friend the Member for the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, Middlesbrough, that the Church Commissioners make was asked— strong representations to ensure that Ofwat delivers on Early Voting what he described as encouraging noises? Sir Stuart Bell: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who 3.
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