TYNWALD COURT.

DOUGLAS, TUESDAV„1ANUARY 26, 3915.

Present in the Council: His Excellency 4, sub-section 1, of the Money-Lenders the Lieut.-Governor (President), the Clerk Act, 7908, the Governor, With the approval of the Rolls, Deemster Moore, Deemster of Tynwald, is empowered to make cegule- Callow, the Archdeacon, the Receiver- tions respecting the registration of money- General, and the Vicar-General; and in lenders carrying on their business within the Keys : The Speaker (Mr Dalrymple the Island, whether individuals, firms, Maitland,- .LP.), Messrs. J. R. Kerruish, societies, or companies; and as to the form E. J. Curphey, R. S. Corlett, J. W. of register and the particulars to be Walton, W. Christian, T. H. Cormode, T. entered therein, the fees to be paid on C. Kermode, W. Quayle, J. Quahrough, registration, and renewal of .registration, W. C. Southward, W. J. Radcliffe, W. 1'. and the inspection of the register and the °relineII, A. QuaItrough. Carine, J. fees payable therefor. Hitherto no such Garside, it. Moughtin, F, Quine, W. regulations have been made, but recently I•. Cowell. R.. Quells, and Cel. Moore. an inquiry was received at the Government• Office from a money-lender in England, as to what regulations were in force in this BILLS FOR SIGNATURE. . Island. It is, therefore. considered desir- The Governor laid before the Court for able to have regulations framed in the signature the Companies Bill and the Poor event of money-lenders from across the Prisoners Defence Bill. water extending their business to the Isle of Man. Tho draft regulations, copies EX.FENSION OF IMPERIAL ACTS which have been circulated amongst the TO THE ISLE OF MAN. members of the Court, are similar to those The Governor laid before the Court copies which are in force in the United Kingdom, of Orders of the King in Council extend- and it is proposed to charge a fee of LI ing the following Acts of the Imperial For each registration ur renewal of regis- Parliament to the Isle of Man under the tration. This is the maximum amount Isle of Man (War Legislation) Act, 1914: allowed to be charged under the, Act, and is the fee payable in the United Kingdom. The Defence of Realm Act. 1914, as amended by the Defence of the Realm Mr Orennell : In connection with the (No. 2) A:et, 1914, Acts extended to the Isle of Man, will The. Aliens Restriction Act. 1.914. copies of these be circulated? The Courts (Emergency Powers) Act. The Governor : They have been circu- .1914. lated. I do not know whether they have The Intoxicating Liquor (Temporary Re- been specially circulated to the members striction) Act, 1914. of the Cnurt, but they have been issued The Defence of the Realm (Consolidation) to the public—not the Acts themselves, Act. 7914, but the orders extending them. The Trading with the Enemy Act; 197.4, Mr Crennell: I mean these Acts that end the Trading with the Enemy are extended to the Isle of Man now. Amendment Act, 1914, Tho .Governor: I am afraid they have The Patents, Designs, and Trade Marks not been circulated. We have copies of (Temporary Rules) Acts. 193.4. seine of them, but not all. The Clerk of the Rolls: A book has MONEY-LENDERS ACT, hoen published containing nearly all the The Governor also laid before the Court war legislation, and copies have been sent, the draft regulations made by his Excel- to the officials, and to the Rolls Office. lency the Lieut.-Governor under section do not know whether it contains all those 4 (1) of the Money-Lenders Act, 1908. Acts or not. The cost of the volume is His Excellency remarked: Under section 3s. 6d. I think it would be very con-

Bills for Signature.—Extension of fin it rial Acts to the Isle of Man. Money-Lenders Act.

TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915.

venient if all members of the Court had 30,000 illustrated official guides. containing them. Members ought to be able to make 152 pages. 20,000 No. 2 -handbook, giving lists of accom- themselves acquainted with the provisions modation and short descriptive matter. —I do not say they will. (Laughter). 90,010 Ne. .3 handbook. giving list of accom- suggest we incur the expense of sending modation only. On receiving assurarce of further grants from copies to all members of the Legislature. revenue and rates, the Board at mice arranged The Governor: Very well, I will do a very extensive and comprehensive newspaper campatem of large and striking advertisements that. the "Daily Mail.' 'Daily Dispatch," "Daily Mr Curphey : Will you bind them in a Sketch." and in 18 of the best London and Pro- vincial papers. A. ''1st of 49 papers thoroughly paper cover? representative or the whole of the 11.1-itish Isles comallotl, and advertisements were inserted The Governor: They are bound. Tho for six months from the list March. In addi- Acts are all bound together to a very lion, she Board were able to arrange 17 lull recent date—at any rate within a month. pages in various papers, containing attratlive articles on the ISIand, supported by advertise- ments for local hotels and boarding-houses. BOARD OF ADVERTISING. The full-page and display advertisements. as above, influenced a large demand for our books. The Governor laid before the Court the and your Board have every contidenee in stating report of the Board of Advertising for the that the maximum value has been received fur year ended 31st December, 1914:- the amcnnt spent by them. Other forms a advertising and display have been carried on '1'o his Excellency the Lord Raglan, C.B., Lieut.. as heretofore, with greater success, owing to Governor, and the Honourable- the Council tile experience gained during past years. Effers,,, and Keys in Tynwald assembled. have been continued in giving prospective ner• Your Lordship and Gentlemen.—We have the manent residents all necessary information honour to report that, for the year ending the induce these to take up residence on the Island 31st December. 1914, the returns of passengers landed at Insular Ports during the months May When the visiting season seemed likely to to September inclusive, show a decrease of collapse. in mid-August, special advertisements 218,106 as compared with the corresponding were inserted in many of the prominent news- months of 1913. papers circulating in the North of England. in the - endeavour to counteract the misleading Consequent on the outbreak of war at the statements in circulation regarding the Island's beginning of August, your Board much deplore food supply and other vital matters• and in this it had no adequate opportunity of demonstrat- we were joined by the Douglas Corporation, the ing the value to the Island of the increased Douglas Boarding-llonse Keepers' Association. grants for advertising. We may, however. and many of the principal companies con- congratulate the Court on the considerable corned—all of whom gave generous increase in passenger traffic up to the 31st of July (which data concluded the period un- As a result of the Board's advertising cam- affected by the wari, the comparative numbers paign. applications for literature and informa- being 283,835 against 269,105 in 1913; a net hi- tion numbered 13,412, and were received as e, ease of 14.731 follows:— 9.141 Our main efforts during the early part of the Douglas. Office—Postal and general year were direted to influencing an increase London Office— Postal ,3,01d of holiday traffic in May and June, and the Personal results amplyjustify our action, and toe — 4,272 Island has benefited thereby- la this connection we would express our 173,412 appreciation of the great assistance given TO our work by the Douglas Carnival advertising. An analysis of these shows them to be re- which helped considerably in influencing traffic ceived from the following disl:ricts:— during Juno and July. We desire to state our London and Eastern Countme of firm opinion that the success of the earlier England-- period of the season fully demonstrates the Letters 3,115 value of the view held by us strongly for years Personal ...... ...... 1,258 past, that an advance is possible at that part Northern counties d England—Letters 4.351 of the season, by earlier and judicious adver- Western counties of England (includ- tising of the unique merits of the Island as a ing Walesi—Letters health and pleasure resort. Southern counties of England—Letters 1,02795 Our work has again derived much advantage Iretand—Eattens 607 Scotland—Letters 1,098 from the advertising done by the Isle of Man 75 Steam Packet Company, the other large carry- Foreign and Colonial—Letters 1, nc assi fled—Letters ...... _...... 15 ing companies running services to the Island, 1,026 and the various advertising committees in Douglas office—Personal Insular localities. 13,412 In formulating our programme in the early opting, we estimated to spend the amount Resulting from notices in our guide book originally voted, viz., £1750. and our plans were, soliciting further inquiries as to respective therefore, made much on the lines which, in localities, letters were received by the various the past, we have found the most valuable for focal authorities. supplementing the above such a cum that is, in the issue of attractively figures by 545. prepared handbooks and lists of accommoda- The "returns of inquiries" for the preceding tion. The principal book was much improved, y ear were-- and ninny highly commendatory opinions hare Douglas 11.417 been expressed regarding it and the other publi- London 4,802 cations of the Board. The numbers contracted for were:— T2395, Board of Advertising. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 5,5

The London office of the Board continues to be of value, and the services of Mrs Rigby in reason why I ask is, that the extra vote charge of it have given the highest satisfaction. was taken last year, and if it is not Mr A. W. Tongue, who has satisfactorily and obtained this year the Board of Advertis- efficiently acted as secretary to this Board since March, 1903, resigned his post in March ing will revert to what they did before. last. his resipation was accepted with regret. The Governor: The Board of Advertis- Mr Wesley hennaugh was appointed in his place, As Mr Tongue had been instrumental ing is a year ahead with its money, you in formulating the Board's programme for the know. year, his services were retained in an advisory capacity until the end of July, with gratifying Mr Garside: 1 am aware of that, but not rrsulte to the Board. as regards the extra rate and grant to On comparing the traffic returns for former make up the £3,000, which we got last years, it will be noted that, notwithstanding the disastrous effect on the August and Sep- year. tember returns by the outbreak of war, the -total results for the past season show a good The Governor: That will be included. advance over the year 1905, and all years prior t r that date. BHA ETING OF TROOPS AND BETTER- The substantial increase in our grants, and its fixed and permanent character, will greatly CLASS ALIENS. assist in making the Island's just claims more Mr Garsido: The next question. is, if widely known, and; we believe that the Insular revenue, and the Island generally, will in you will lay before the Court the corres- future benefit by the vote of the Legislature. pondence between your Excellency and the The coming year is viewed with anxiety and. Perplexity by all interested in the visiting various departments of the Imperial ecason, Your Board arc of opinion that the Government, and any other information conditions require all our strenuous and relating, first, to the billeting of troops in judicious efforts, and that no relaxation of endeavour or expenditure would be advisable, the Island, and placing better class aliens tut rather that further effort should be made in hotels or boarding or lodging-houses in to maintain our position in the ensuing years aptirst rival rescrts, the Island: second, tihe promise made or The statement of receipts and payments will implied that troops would be placed here he presented to the Court in due course. for training purposes: in the event of the Some difficulty is being experienced in collect, Insular Government agreeing to the estab- - ng outstanding accounts du{: for advertising in cur guides, a,t1.1 the Board fear that many lishment of a second camp for the intern- such may have... to be carried forward to next ment of aliens at Knockaloe? year's account. MO T. OCiVELL. Chairman. The Governor: I sin sorry I cannot lay JOHN R. HERPUISTI. Vice-Chairman. the official correspondence on the table of W. H. KITTO. JOSEPH GABSIDE. the Court without the leave of the depart- AMBROSE OIJALTROUC11. ments concerned. With regard to the ROBILRT CORLETT. I J. LAWTON. second part of the question, have no Il. W. TE A RE. recollection of any promise or bargain RECH QUAIJTHOUOlf. being made that troops would be sent here for training, and there is no official THE ADVEPTISTNG RATE. correspondence implying that. Mr Garsido: In accordanoe with notice given to your Excellency. I would like to PURCHASE OF PULROSE. ask will the Agricultural and Rural Indus- The Vicar-General: I beg to present the tries Act be promulgated before 5th July report of the Committee appointed to this year? if not, what arrangements inquire into the application of the Douglas will be made for the levying of the adver- Corporation for the purchase of Pulrose tising rate this year? I think it is desir- ; at a sum of £19,000. I observe that since able we should know, because the Adver- the Committee reported, the Corporation tising Board will meet shortly to lay their of Douglas have introduced a Bill for the plans. purpose of authorizing this purchase, and The Governor: The hon. member cannot enabling them to deal with this estate make a speech in askng a question. The after it has been purchased. I do not Bill in question has not yet received the know whether they propose to go on with Royal Assent. If the Bill has not received the petition. the Royal Assent in time, I propose to • The Committee's report was as follows: take the customary vote for advertising, To his Excellency the Right Honourable the Lord Raglan. C.B.. and the Honourable the as usual. Conseil1)d 1 ecuister. and Keys. in Tynwald Mr Garside: But that will not include The Committee to which was referred the the increased vote made last year. The petition of the Mayor. Aldermen, and Burgesses

The Advertising Bate.—Billeting of Troops —Better-class Ations.—Purcilase of Pulrose. /56 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1918. of the borough of Douglas for leave to purchase repairs, the position became acutely incon- the estate of Pnirose, and to borrow .£19,0.0 for ven that purpose. have the honour to report ae ient. follower— The Town Council had endeavoured, but with- out success, to conic: to a. satisfactory arrange- The Committee met in Douglas on time 1st ment with the Railway Company for the soa- December, 1914. Notice of the sitting of the ve-5one° of the refuse and its distribution Committee had been given in the public Press. amongst farmers Mr Edward C. Kneen appeared for the peti- After long deliberation, the Connell had come tioners in support of the application. No to the conclusion that a refuse farm was the opposition was offered by any ratepayer. hest solution of the difficulty, and the resolu- Plane were produced of the land proposed to tion to acquire Pulrose for the purpose was, it be purchased. was stated, unanimously pa.ssed by the Council it consists of :- - The purchase, it was claimed, was strongly t1) The estate of Upper Pulrose, containing 153 approved by the general body of ratepayers. acres; The Committee pointed out to the petitioners t2) The estate of Lower leilrose. containing that, by the Local Government Acts, the Cor- 71 acres; poration could mile acquire—even with the con- (3 A areal! field situate at the junction of the sent of Tynwald—land for the purposes of the main road to Castletown and .Kewaigue- Local Government Act ; and that it was clear to road ;Ind containing Over one acre: the Committee that a much smaller quantity of land would be sufficient for the purposes (4) Three fields at the junction of the main indicated. Even if :Tynwald' authorised the road to Castletown and St. Mark's-read. sale, no legal sanction to purchase could containing neo'-ly eight acres: follow. (5) Pulroee Cottage, outbuildings and fields. The petitioners replied that they could profit- containing nearly eight acres: ably use the whole of the land for purposes (6) Kewaigne Corn Mill buildings. and field recognised b,v the Local Government Acts. containing 27i acres: They pointed out that on the field in the Peel- ;7) Pulrose Mansion noose, grounds, and pre- road they proposed to erect public conveni- mises, containing 53 -acres; ences. which were greatly needed in that .9) Pulrosa "team Laundry. containing locality; that they had at present to take On acres; lease a considerable quantity of land for graz- ing purposes l'or their tramway horses, and (SI A small field adjoining main road to Peel a lso had to bey a eonsiderable quantity of and road leading to Belle Vim, containing corn. etc., for feeding ; and that recreation nearly two acres; grounds and public walks were also most the total contents of the land being about 255 desirable, and that the Council were satisfied acres, that all the land could be well used. They did, Evidence as to the value of the property was however. propose to let a• portion. given by ler Thomson, auctioneer, and Br W. Asked why they had proceeded by petition Kerrnish, F.S.A.. accountant, wile con- and not by Bill. petitioners replied that under sidered the mice. to be paid reasonable. the conditions of sale the purchase was to be According to the evidence of Mr Thomson completed on the 12th day of November, and (who was the auctioneer in charge of the sale), that a Bill could not be passed and promul- the property at the sale by auction on the 29th gated before July next; but that they did pro- •day of -July, 1914, was first put up in lots, and pose, subsequent to the purchase. to have intro. then as a whole. laced into the Legislature a Bill to give them The highest bid obtained was for the property powers to eell and let portions of the land. as a. whole. This was the soul of £19,000, at and to work other portions for agricultural which. although being rather lees than the purposes. This, however, was only being done reserve fixed by the vendors prior to the sale, so that they might put the land to the most it, was knocked down to Mr W. A. Wahl, of profitable use. They could, they contended, Douglas, who acted on behalf of the Corpora- without a Bill. use the property for the pur- tion of Douglas. poses specified by the Local Government Acts. The net rent obtained for the property at After careful erni8ideration, the Committee l'resent is £730 per annum. are satisfied that, on general grounds, it is not undesirable that 'this estate should be acquired The purposeA for which the property is eaid by the Corporation, and they are satisfied that to be required by t.',e Corporation are as set the price is riot unreasonable. out in the petition—namely, for a depot for Part of the property is suitable for the chief town refuse, and f,u- the erection of public con- purpose for Vilneh it me -sought w be acquired— veniences, and other publi: purposes under' the that of it refuse farm. Local Government Acts. But the Committee cannot came to the con- Evidence in support of the application was elusion that the contemplated purchase could given by the Mayor of Douglas. by several be considered legal, or that any sanction of members of the 'lbws Council, and by the Town Tynwald could give validity to any agreement Clerk. From their evidence it appeared clear' entered into for acquiring the property. that the main reason which induced the Cor- If. however, such agreement has, subject hr poration to enter into the agreement to pur- the consent of Tynwald, legal force, the Com- chase was to acquire a. place where the town mittee recommend that authority be given as refuse could, be satisfactorily disposed of. asked for. The present method of disposing of it by lath December, 1914. deposit depots at various places, and by taking C. T. W. HUCHES-GAMES. it to sea in the hopper barge, had led to diffi- J. KEWLEY. culties, and was not satisfactory, and had, in ROBERT MOUGHTTN. fact, given rise to many complaints. particu- J. W. WALTON. larly in the summer season, W. T, CRENNELL. Depots were increasingly hard to obtain. the Mr Cruickshank : I propose, on behalf occupiers of properties adjacent strongly obiert. of the Corporation, to suggest to the Court ing to therm The bares could not cope with the inereafiing quantity of refuse, and, whenever that, notwithstanding the fact that the the barge broke down and had to Corporation have introduced the Bill deal-

Purchase of Pulrosse. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 57 ing with this subject in detail and every- land; but, on a. libirral view of that section, aspect of it, and, notwithstanding the they will be enabled to say the Corporation somewhat adverse opinion expressed by the are, at any rate, within their rights in Committee in the report, the Court should securing this particular estate in the par- proceed to sanction the purchase, and to ticular circumstances 4ittenfling the case. authorize the Corporation to borrow this Now, in England, under the correspondine money, so as to enable them to carry out section (if the Public Health Act, the local the purchase at the earliest possible authority seeking to :require land, has not morrient. It is of the greatest importance to obtain the sanction of the Legisla- to the Corporation that that should be ture or the sanction of ;he Local Govern done. The vendors are pressing for their meat Board to the actual purchase. They money; arrangements of some kind must are empowered to purchase land for the he made with them, and it would he purposes of the Act in the same way as we exceedingly inconvenient if that part of the are, but there is no reference to the consent transaction had to be postponed until the of Parliament, as we have here the consent Bill actually becomes law. of the Tynwald Court being obtained for The Vicar-G'enerai: Then I may explain the purchase, but they have to obtain the what the difficulty is. consent of the Local Government Board to Mr Cruickshank: I was going to refer to borrowing the money to pay for it. So the point raised by the Committee as to the far as the real point in question is con- difficulty they eneounterod. eernedthat is of the Legislature here exercising a. similar jurisdiction, to the Local The Vicar-General: The member's of the Government Board in England on the im- Court will have had the report before them, portant point of raising the money and and will have observed the difficulty which empowering Corporation funds to be em- confronted the Committee in reporting in ployed, a similar condition of affairs exists. favour of the application. The powers of I would call attention to what Judge the local authority to purchase herds- Lutnley, in his work on Public Health, says The Clerk of the Rolls: T think it wo,i1:i under somewhat similar circumstances on be more oenvenient, if ecnnsel has the point that section with regard to the purchase of before him, to allow him lo finish, and yon lends. On page 114 Justice Lumley says: can deal with it afterwards. "Any local authority may for the purposes. Afr Cruickshank . I take it that, gener- and subject to the provisions of this Act, ally, upon th.3 merits of the application, purchase or take en lease lands within or the Committee's report is in favour of it, without their district," and se on. Thee but they seem to consider that the powers in a note to that he says: vested in the Corporation under the Local It sometimes k appons that a district connfil Government Act do not cover an applica- finds it desirable to acquire lands when Property ie suddenly placed upon the market) tion of this kind, inasmuch as the Commit- although they are not prepared with any pre- tee consider that it was unnecessary to cise scheme of utilisation. In such a ease, if a loan is required, the Isocal Government Board acquire the whole of the estate for the usually allow only in short term for the repay- strictly defined purposes stated in the Act. ment, but if during the Period the Council resolve upon some scheme for using the land. Now, that may be true. It is true that the the Board are willing to entertain an 'replica- Corporation is not in a position at the tion for sanction to a. re-borrowing for an present moment to say what portion of this extended period. estate they will allocate to dealing with Continuing. Mr Cruickshank said: Here the refuse of the town, or what portion an opportunity arises of acquiring the pro- they icy aPet to public recreation, wthat perty which is peculiarly adapted for every portion to public conveniences, and so on. purpose set out in the memorandum, and But, generally speaking, they have had the the point is that, until the actual purposes difficulty to contend with in such an acute are more clearly defined to which this form that they were bound to acquire a property is eventually to be put, this Court property which came into the market, which should not authorise the borrowing. If met their requirements, notwithstandieg., that view should be taken, I suggest we the fact that they might not eventually he should he allowed a limited time to borrow able to rise every portion of it for purposes this money, such a period in fact itt would strictly within the purposes of the Act. merely permit us convenient time to carry Now, I think this Court, on a technicality the Bill which will have to be proceeded of that kind, will not be called upon to with for other purposes, but which v.all unduly strain the construction of the Act. include the power to purchase and make which empowers the Corporation to acquire good any which may arise in the minds

Purchase of Pulrose, 78 TYNWALD COURT; JANIIARY 26, 19I5. of rnetobers of the Committee or membeis pletion of the purchase, I think we might of the Court—that the Corporation should very well ask this Court to grant the appli- be allowed to borrow the money for such cation in Ow ka:tited sense 1 ;lase indicated. limited time as would enable them t o get The Clerk of the Rolls : Have you pre- their Bill eventually through the Leg1.511- pared a resolution in any concrete form. tore. I.f it is contended that because a as to what you think ought to satisfy 1.1m portion—perhaps art it small Court ? portion of the property, which has to be Mr Cruickshank : It would be simply a purchased as a whole or not at all, eanuot matter, instead of fifty or sixty years, as in he sanctioned because it is not available for- the pctitiDn. to substitute it short term of such purposes by their Act, then I am afraid years—whatever in the opinion of the Court. many applications that some before this would be a reasonable time to allow the Court would have to fail. A very similar local authority to obtain their Bill and put thing happened in Cori ilea loll with the iso- the matter: in form. lation Hospital at Ramsey. The Ramsey. The Clerk of the Rolls: You cannot go Commissioners had to buy Cloak Rtingli the length of saying the purchase will tall estate, but only a small portion was re- through if this petition is not granted 9 quired for the actual hospital, yet a con- Cruickshank : The difficulty, so fai- siderably quantity of farm land was as endor authorised to lag acquired which could not that is concerned, is between the v and the individual imrchaser, acting on be cousidered nea\ssary in COrlileet:011 With behalf of the Corporation. the hospital itself. But the Ramsey local authority was able to use that land, which The Clerk of the Rolls: Any person what was very poor land at the time, mid convert has bought the property is perfectly safe it into very good land by using it as a to get the money back again on a re .sale. refuse farm, and it has been a good specula- do not see why some temporary arrange- tion. Then, later on. they acquired a ment could not be made by which the so- meadow on the other side of the road to use called purchaser can find the purchase in a similar manner. It could not be said money-. 7 do not want the Court to go oft to he for town purposes. except that it was with the idea that if they do not pass tins converted into laud in the same way as the to-day the purchase will be lost. other, by gradually using it for disyising Mr Crniekshank: The only arrangement of town refuse. It is impossible here to say that strikes one—the only arrangement to what. extent this estate may be utilised that has occurred to the Com poration and for that purpose, but a considerable portion time purchaser as the representative of the is to be so used. In connection ,ivith such Corporation—is that the Corporation has a purpose as a depot, which is to be used to to find the money to complete or partially such an extent, you cannot put that on a complete the purchase, so as to fall in with particular portion. You next,[-t provide a the views of the vendor who requires the certain margin so as to prevent complaint money. from adjoining proprietors of nuisance, and The Clerk of the Rolls: I have under so on. Taking the whcie circumstances of stood there was a considerable mortgage on this particular case into consideration, I the property in the first instance, so there think the Court would not he unduly is only the balance of the money to be straining. the construction of this section, found. I should think the vendor, with the if they authorised this application and Corporation at its back, would have no di fft- limited it in the way the Local Government clay in arranging for the advance of the Board do in England. to borrowing for such money. a term, as to see that the local authority Mr Crinekshank : I understand that. did in a limited time pit tine question at 07,000 has to be found after allowing the rest, if there is any question of informality. mortgage to veto:tin on. That is a cnn- The Bill which has been referred to by the siderable sum of money to find, uniest: Vicar-General provides all that. It pro- are armed with the authority of the Court vidc1/4s not only for solving any doubt bei o:4 to approve the purchase so far as the cast upon the powers here to grant th.s Court can approve it. It the approval of application summarily, but to deal with the Court is given, I am told there will be other matters relating to the surplus lands no difficulty about the matter. not requited by the Corporation. Under The Clerk of the Rolls- The Court having these circumstances, and in view of the given its approval, the question arises: what -urgency of the matter as regards the com- control the Court can retain, except by • Purchase of Pulrose. TYNWALD COURT, 3ANUARY. 26, 1915. 59

refusing future applications. unless a Bill into this contract, if by doing so they acted is obtained. ultra vires, no sanction or authorisation by Mr Cruickshank : Tho Court may limit Tynwald can give validity to flint agree- the term of borrowing. Suppose that next ment. I am entirely in, favour of this year, or the year after, the Corporation purchase, but I am so little convinced by had to find this money again. that would the arguments of the counsel that f feel be a sufficient safeguard to anyone eon- compelled to vote against the application corned, that the Corporatien would proceed before the Court. I believe the Committee with diligence to carry out the whole thing :ire unanimous in their opinion that the by Bill. Corwatioit have acted ultra vires in The Clerk of the Bolls: The 15egislature making th!s contract, and, therefore, no has always control by refusing future appli- sanction of Tynwald will put the matter cations, unless the wish of the Court, in further. Therefore, tire.} cannot borrow any important matter, is carried out. do the sum of money, either for a short or not wish to put any obstacle in the way of Jong period, and our consent would not help the Corporation ; if they are prepared to them in the least. If the trennaction is face that position which might be taken up illegal, it is liable to be set aside by a proper application to the Court. I do not intend by any branch of the Legislature, I am inclined to let the matter go through. is to be led by any specious argnment into there any opposition ? voting for what I consider illegal, and shall have to vote, against my own inclin- Mr Cruickshank : There has been no ation, against this proposal. opposition from any section of the rate- payers. It is accepted all round as being The Governor: There is no motion at this desirable. It would be a thousand pities if moment before the Court. on a point of this kind the matter fell Capt. Moughtin : 1 beg leave to move through. that the prayer of the petition be granted, The Clerk of the Rolls: I am speaking and, as a further reason to put, before the entirely for myself. I think it is important Court why they should approve this appli- the Corporation should have the property. cation, I would mention that, at the present Mr Cruickshank : The Keys have posses- moment, the hopper barge has broken down, sion of the Bill already, and are proceeding and is under repair. Any further break to deal with it. down leaves us without any power of dis- posal of refuse, and ire have no place to put The Vicar-General: Counsel for the Cor- it. I think, as the matter has gone so far. poration have sufficiently indicated what and can he arranged, the Court. might the difficulty was before the Committee. I stretch a point, and give the Corporation am quite sure no member of the Committee permission, at any rate for the time being, will take any active steps to defeat them until a Bill can be got through, to grant in this application. On the contrary, every the prayer of the petition, and let the Cor- member of the Committee thought the poration complete the sale. . purchase was desirable—or, at all events:, riot undesirable—on the whole, desirable. Ma' W. I?, Cowell I have great pleasure The was sufficient evidence of the desire- in seconding it. Having been a member hilfty to effective sanction being given, of the Douglas Corporation' for a number if it had not been the difficulty which con- of years, I have realised the serious position fronted the Committee. It is not the they are in as regards dealing with refuse slightest use saying this is a technicality. from the town. The hon. member for South It is not a technicality it. is purely a ques- Douglas line mentioned the difficulty ii tion of law. I have often heard, where a connection with the hopper barge, and I question of law has been raised as at: know, when I was chairman of the Stores obstacle to a local authority, that we had Committee for one year, we were in a most rigid technical minds, and ought to sweep difficult position. We set out to find depots aside these trifles, and not in any way in the north part of Douglas, and made attach importance to them. But these are application for different sites, but the not technicalities. What the various result, wherever we went, was that the officials of local authorities call mere techni- neighbourhood all round about for half a ealities are matters of considerable difficulty mile distant suffered from the nuisance of raised as absolute questions of law. This waste paper flying about and the eartine seems to be a case in point. If, in, point of operations. Where one horse will take a fact, the Corporation hard no power to enter ton load, along the lower level, it takes a

Purchase of Pulroee. 60 TYNWALD COURT. JANI3A1 Y 26, 1915. pair of horses to drag it to North Douglas. Mr A. Qualtrough: With regard to this I consider this is a good speculation on the purchase, and the purchase of Villa part of the Corporation of Douglas, and I Marina—if T remember rightly, on organ heartily support the prayer of the petition. played a great part in the Villa Marina Mr Cormfxle: J hope we are not going to purchase; this iS only a small purchase, why have long speeches on the merits of this not base a harmonium in connection with petition, because there is a unanimous iv!' Perhaps that would get over the legal report of the Committee on its merits. As difficulty. (Laughter.) far as I can understand, every member of The Governor: I think the Clerk of the the Court thinks this is a very excellent Polls' amendment is about the best way scheme. We arc held np entirely by the mint OF the diflieuity. 1 do not know legal difficulty. T. do not know how many whether this is it very. huge Bill. legal gentlemen share the view of the Mr Cruickshank : No, 1. have it cispy Vicar-General, but if that is the view of here. It is a short Bill. the gentlemen who are competent to form The Governor: That is ail right. Tire an opinion. I think the Corporation will be Keys are meeting next Tuesday. As soon well advised to withdraw the petition. as the Bill is through, 1 ean hold a meeting There is no chant's of it going through, if of the Council and dispose of it. Once both the majority of the Council are opposed to it and their opposition will he all the w r,Re branches have passed the Bill there will he for the ultimate issue of the Corporation's no difficnIty in proceeding with the pur- application. I think the Corporation would chase. be wise to withdraw, and push on with the The Clerk of the Bolls: :Have you Bill as rapidly as possible. v ed any notice of opposition to the Bill 11 r The Clerk of the Rolls: I was going to Oniekshank None whatever. suggest, if this matter stands adjourned The Covet nor put the amendment "that for the present, I understand the House of the conside`ration of time petition he post- Keys meets next Tuesday, and See mght, poned." and declared it carried. proceed with the Bill at once as a matter of Mr A. Qualtrough: I will for a division. urgency. It cannot take very long. and (''No, no.") within a month the Corporation will know one way or the other, where they are. The 11 TOPS' SURCHARGES. Bill is ready, I understand, T do not ere Decnistet: Moore: 'fire question of the why we should not meet and dispose of the auditors' sureirtuges was referred to the matter within a month. I do not see how fACal Government Board as a Coln mittAma, any inconvenience cart arise. With regard and they now report, and I stove that the to the remarks of the hon. member for report of elm comitnittee he placed on the Peel. T do not think it is well for the, judges table, and also move that the report be to give a positive opinion, one way or the printed and circulated. There is also a other, and do not propose to give any mottor that is not on the agenda. 1 'hold further opinion with regard to that point. in my: hoard summary of the annual re- But T do think, if the Bill is proceeded with port of the Board. it is the usual thing at once, both branches will have an oppor- to present thus summary to the. Court, and tunity of considering the matter in more I move that it he printed. detail, and no substantial harm will neerue The Speaker seconded. to the promoters. T move that the petition Carrlred. he postponed. Mr Kermode seconded. NEW .1TIENDA.NCE ENEOBCING OPE f CEli Mr Cruickshank : It is not a !natter of Thi following motion wits on the agenda: the Bill passing both branches of the Legis- 01;;::.:1 of Etimmeat ion—A Item :lance En- lature: it is a matter of the Bill hecoming forcing Offieer—Mr Cie:me:11 to I; 10 V.:— law. W ere,:m by Section 6. sub-section 18. of the The Clerk of the Boils: I think we Education Act. 1895, it is cT,acted that the Couneil of Education may appoint an officer get over that difficulty. o- officers to eliForc.? time attendance of chat. Mr Cruickshank : I propose. in he ren at School, the approval of the Tynwald Court, being necessary to the fixing of the interests of my clients, to fall in with ti: amount of ..sal,t ry or remuneration payable to suggestion of the Clerk of the Bolls. (Hear, any persons so appointed: hear.) And whereas. by minute dated the 18th September, 1514, the Council of Educatio,i

Auditors' Surcharg=es.—New Attendance Enforcing Officer.

TYNWALD COUR.T, JANUARY 26, 1915. CI

appointed. Mr James Moore Dugdale as attend- Witarcls: I think so :MCC enforcing officer for the parishes of Bal- laugh. Jurby, Andreas, Bride. and kezayre, and, llr Cruieksthank• It is a fair rent? subject to the approval of the rymvald Court. fixed his salary at 52 per annum: ll'iness: Yes. Resolved, That the Court do approve of such Mr Creation: Ts it a new tenant? oalary." Witn.s.s• Yes. 'Ph' old tenant did not Mi' Crentiell.: 1 regret that owing to the apply, and it was advertised both here and death of one of the best. enforcing officers in England, This is the best rent we cont,[ over in the service of the Council obtain, and the Trustees eons:der it a sati:.;- of Fldmiation in the Island, it has be- fartory rent. come necessary to appoint a new enforcing Cormodc 1 move that the prayer •,r °finer. and 1 move that he be appointed the petition be .xranted. I quite satis- it it salary of L52, which. is £18 less than hen that it is n good bargain. Ins predecessor was gett:ng. Mr Crenne:1 seconded, and it was The Ok.rk of the Rolls: How does itvise? Mr Crennell: There are no stated times. The Clerk of the Rolls: What did the LISTS OF VOTERS. old oili.:!er wet. The Clerk of the Rolls: I beg to move— Mr Crenneill: :CIIR more than this, but he That a committee of this Court be appointed had been in office for a number of years. to examine the accounts of expenses incurred in forming and revising the lists of voters unO, r The of the Rolls: H the enforcing the Nouse of Keys Dlection Acts for the :Jen!' officer . ended 30th September. 1914. Mr Otennell; It will be increased. The Clerk of the Rolls: This is the ordin- J. .R. Kerrinsh seconded. nry motion ; the accounts _have been sent in lda :aid are waiting to be paid. I ,hope to be The motion was carried. able to report before the rising: of the Court. The Speaker, tile Recen er-G e - LEASE OF SNAEF.Ei'LL. oral • and 111,3-self have usually been the The Trustees of the Common Lands pre- Co rid ni fines. . sented a. petition for confirmation of lease Mr Jos. Q.ualtrough seconded, and it was to Mr W..). Lee of the Suaefell Mountain, carried. for the tern: of 14 years (but terminable The Governor! The Clerk of the Rolls, at option of either party in 1921), at an the Meociver-General. and the Speaker annual ,rental of tow. were the committee last year. Mr Ornickshauk ! I appear for the Trus- Mr Kern-lode: T propose they be re- tees of Common Lands. By the Act of elected. 1866, it is provided that the Trustees may Mr Wnliton: I second that. let land for a term of years, but not more than seven years, without the approval of Caryl ed. Tynwald. It is now proposed to let hand STIPPI,E:NIEN TA RY VOTES.—PitINTINC-f I'm fourteen years. The lease is dated 21st A ND A DVERTISTNG. November last, rindmade between Mr John The Clerk of the Bons: I beg to move— Lee, and lets 4,488 acres at a rent of £300, That the Treastirer of the Isle of Man be ithieh is a large increase in the rent ire- authorized to apply from the current revenue oe:ved under the former lease. It is au of this Island a supplementary sum not exceed- ing £150 to defray, during the year ending 31st increase of Al100 on the old lease. I will Murch, 1915, the expenses incurred, or to be otill Mr Claicas who is actin g as. Secretary incurred, for printing official publications and for the Trustees. for advertising, such amount to be in addition to the sum of £500 voted by this Court on the 7%fir J. D. Otheas, called, deposed: I have 9th June, 1914. been acting as Secretary to the Commons The Clerk of the Rolls: The itionease Trustees., and I ;nn a Trustee. the roost of printing arises on account of Mr Cruickshank The former lease of Corel: outstanding accounts whicih. were not the land was £.200 a year, and that expired Dent in having ooine in this year, amount- oil -ON: 12th November last, and the Trus- ny; to £1(}0„ and the rest is due to extra tees have agreed to let to Mr Lee on a printing anti advertising due to the war. fonrtern years' lease at an inorease of !CIO° The Tineasiner liar, now arranged to have a year. the positing and advertising accounts ren- Witness: That is so. dered monthly. sa that we will not pet into Mr Cruickshank: It it the best rent ob- the sa me pesition tainable? Mr Walton seconded, and it was carried. Lease of Snnefell Mountain.—List of Voters.—Supplementary Votes.—Printing and Advertising. 62 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915.

PROBATION O1' OFFENDERS ACT. take the power away from the Justices, The .Receiver-General: I have to move— but to make it very necessary for the That the Treasurer of the Isle of Man he Justices, or their clerk, to at once notice authorised to apply from the current revenue the Treasurer of the 'Island with regard to or' this Island a supplementary sum not exceed. any commitments that have been made, so fug £20 to defray, during the year ending Met March. 1915, the expenses incurred, or to be that he will know what money will be incurred, under the Probation of Offenders Act., needed. The cost this year of the children 1513. such amount to be in addition to the sun' at present in the schools is estimated at of £40 voted by this Cmart on the 9th June.1914 £480. I move the resolution. The Receiver-General added: There was an error i,n. the vote before the Court in Mr Crennell seconded, and it was :lune last, it having been at down at £40 carried. instead of :C60. The expena% under the Act have ham £45. and ..C.15 further ex- PRINTING DEBATES. penses will he incurred, which brings it up The Clerk of the Rolls: I beg to move:— to the £60. f only regret that this Act That the Tresurer ot the Tete of Man be authorized to apply froin the current revenue is not taken mors: advantage of by the jus- of this Island a supplemtmary sum at £52 .)e, tices of the Island. Any increased amount to defray, during thin year ending 31st starch, 1915, tho expenses incurred in connection with necessary under the Act for the prevention Minting debates of the Insular Legislature, of juvenile crime would be readily voted. such amount to he in addition to the sum of The. Court will not lirgrudge money spent voted by this Court un the 9th June. 1914. in this direction. Continuing; the Clerk of the Rolls added : Capt. Moughtin: I second that. All the members are more or less responsible 'Me Governor: T should also like to urge for this expenditure. The item is really a upon the Justices tin- necessity of taking pro-rata charge for printing the debates every advantage of this Act. during the past year. Under the contract of £300 we are entitled to a book of 500 The motion was carried. pages, and we had a book of 582 pages, and the vote asked for represents the difference MAINTENANCE OF CIIII,DREN IN between the 500 pages and the 582 pages. REFORMATORIES. Mr Garside: 1 beg to second that. The Receiver-General: I beg to move.— Mr Crennell: I think that the reports we That the Treasurer of the isle of Man be get of the proceedings are very correct, and anthorised to apply from the current revenue of this Island a supplementary &wit not exceed- we find them very useful, but I think the ing £t20 to .defray, during the year ending 31st members of the Council might undertake to March. 1915, the expellees incurred, or to be in- etirre-d, in maintaining children committed to pay this extra cost, as it must be due to ex- reformatories and industrial schools, ouch cessive talk on their part last session. amount to be in addition to the sum of £30:1 (Laughter.) The work is of very voted by this Court on the 9th June, 1914. great0 value to those who take an Continuing, the Receiver-General said : intei est in the debates, but I wonki This is a supplementary slim to cover the like to say that they would be still expenses to 31st March, 1915. The diffi- more valuable if the regulations were culty which the Treasurer has to face in strictly adhered to. The conditions are making the estimates is that he cannot tell not being fulfilled, and the loss of this how many children in any one year will be during the past year has been felt. It is commi teed to these schools by the Justices of a vary useful arrangement, at least, I find it the Island. This additional sum has been so. 1 am one of those who give consider- found necessary, owing to the increased able trouble to the printer in the matter of number of children committed during the corrections, but I think it should he pointed past year, and also to the increased charges out that the contract is not being fulfilled made by the different reformatory schools, strictly in accordance with the resolution both Protestant and Roman Catholic. of the Committee, and I'llope it will be done Previous to 1910, when the Justices com- in the future. mitted a child to an industrial school or a The Clerk of the Rolls: I have drawn the reformatory, arrangements for the school to attention of the Treasurer to the fact that which the child was committed were made by the Government Office, and they, there- the conditions are 'not strictly observed. fore, knew exactly what expenses were The Governor: I would recommend to likely to he incurred, Under the 1910 Act. members of the Court a more liberal use of the power was given to the Justices to fix the blue Ktatil when they are given their the school. T think that some little proofs (Ilan rter.) amendment of that. Act is necessary, not to The motion was agreed to.

Probation of Offenders.—Maintenance of Children in Reformatories,—Printing Debates. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 63

ST. PATRICK'S ISLE SEA WA LI_ remained intact over the part-ion which span, the breach in the old wall below. The Receiver-General: I move :— From a close exttinnation of the heading. the damage done appears to be confined to the whereas the sea wall of the causeway con- inamcdiate neighbourhood of the breach: but, necting St. Patrick's isle, at Peel, with the even so, it will take about 59 cubic yards mainland has been damaged by the sea: of concrete to fill the voids and make ti:-- ,thrr whereas the damaged portion of such heading which has been affected solid. wail has been temporarily. repaired; but it is It is a, most diffictilt, thing to say with aril. necessary that further repairs of a more per- certainty what the ecst of this repair will be manent eh trac'er should be executed thereat, hilt 1 think that to cover the cost of what has and that th2 rest of i be wall should be already been done, and is nos: being done, .£151 strengthened will be rectum id. Resolved, "That a sent not exceeding £300 be 1 do not prtpose to touch the timber shutter, applied from the moneys eta nding to the credit ivg, which was fixed up on Saturday night. of the Isle of Man Accumulated Fund for the during the winter. lint next summer it will have purpose of carrying out. such further work to to be taken off and the concrete underneath the said causeway' as may be necessary. made good and faced up with stone to carves. The Receiver-General added: Members ,)f mend with the rest of the wall. the Celia will remember the storms that Continuing, the Receiver-General added: we had last 'December. and that very e0n- The work cost only £100, and not £1.50. sitlerable damage was done by them at as anticipated, but I am not asking for :t Peel, but it will be a gratification to the vote for that £1.00. The Court will he Court to know that very little damage was aware that the Board estimated that they done elsewhere in the Island. Some little would have to spend a considerable sum of damage was clone at the Douglas Break- money in connection with the fishing in- water. more especially at the cattle-landing dustry at Peel, and on the Quay roadway. steps and some damage was also done but when the war commenced that industry at the Port St. -Mary roadway, but it stopped, and we saved the £100, and have does not amount to much. With reference spent it in this way. We are now asking this wall at Peel, we have found that it for money for permanent repairs. In a fur- is vers numb more .se.riously damaged than ther report on the work, Mr Blaker says:— yolk my report ti f the 9th ultimo with reference to we at first. thought. T will read to Mr the above was written whilst the repairs were Maker's report:- in hand; these vera finished about the middle 1 regret to say that on December 3rd consider- of last, ruont.n, and are partly permanent and able damage was dorm to the lower part of the part ly temporary. The expenditure on this wail forming the west side of time causeway work so far has been about £100. which is £51 connecting St. Patrick's Isle to the mainland. fess than I anticipated in order to make the hollowing report more went over to Peel an:] r •aile a careful in- clearly understood: I should explain that the spection not only of the temporary repairs, hut wall which lam been damaged ie very old, and of the whole of the old wall and now beg to forms the west side of the original narrow report, os c jusew ay built ve,-y long ago St have been in- The 1.empnrary shuatring is standing very lot 111043 that it was built by order of one of the. well, and does not at:clear to have moved .n Countesses of Derby). in or about the year 1582 the least since it was pert in. the causeway was widened to its present dimcn- regret to nay that a careful examination of isions. and the new iiestern wall was built upon the whole of the old wall shows it to be in a the Id wall as a. fon neation. worse state than I first thought. it has had a The portion of the wail which has been very had shaking this winter. A lot of the damaged was originally built dry (i.e.. with no painting bias been knocked out, and a large mortar in Om joints); and the stones are placed number of wooden edges have been driven in nu edge instead of on the flat. In the 1682 wall between the stories to keep them from coming. the stones :ire laid gat on their natural bed. Rahind the old wall is rubble tilling. The old CUITL'o merely re-point the wail would be of very wall was pointed up with cement mortar many little use, and would he n waste of money. II years ago (probably about 1892). and thus Was w e lire to relievad of anxiety with regard to very considerably' strengthened: 'Int it has this i.ld wall in the future, there appears to me always been a source of anxiety. and has to he only :wo courses open. and they arc- always received careful attention. 1. To pull down the old wall and rebuild it. At the time the Peel Breakwater was extended This would cost I estimate about £600. as ze cart slipway was Imilt alongside the Dill end it would he title work, and the pulling of this 41d wall. and this of ccurse has pro- down and rebuilding' could only he clone in tected it. From the fact of the slipway for a short lengths. distance of about MOP. to the rocks at the. To face up the old wall with a layer of Castle end. the old wall is exposed to the full 2. Ivry of the waves. The almost continuous concrete, about. 2ft. thick. and put a con battering wh.ch this exposed crete apron along the toe of the new piece of the wall faehrr. This would cost, about £501. has received during the recent protracted spell of exceptionally stormy v. either proved too 1. ani in favour o, NO. 2 method: it is not only as effective as No, 1., but until for a part of it, and at daybreak on cheaper and quite Thursday morning does not involve the risk of being caught by a a breach, roughly 14ft. long storm with a. part or the old' wall down and by 6ft. high, and 30ft. Team the foot of the slip- not built. Under Such conditions way. had been made in the old wall by the the new part waves, and the titbit% behind to a (tenth of a storm would probably scour out a great about 8ft. had been scoured out. Fortunately. quantity of the rubble heading. the comparatively new wall fbnilt in 18321 had "Coathluittg, the Receiver-General added :

St. Patrick's Isle Sea Wall, 64 TYNWALI) COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915.

This latter course the Board have decided built in ths wall. Now is the time to do upon, as suggested by Mr Blaker, and we it, when the wall is damaged. It would now ask the Court to consent to the vote a:so take the silt from the Neb. I am for £300. Members will know that the sea satisfied that the experiment will be well hoyake with tremendous force against that worth trying, eepeceally in view of the wail, and if the work is not done soon, eon- enormous /mount of money that has been s:derable more expenditure will be re- expended On dredging in auieed. The Clerk of the Rolls: Could we not Mr COrMOCiP : I second that. deposit large stones on the beach? Mr Ker!-node: I support the motion. Capt. Noughitin : They would all be am familiar with that wall. I don't know geound up into small stones and sand. If whether the Countess of Derby ordered it you go down the Victoria, Pier now you to be built or not, but I well remelt-ale:• will see the large stones that were deposited the. old mail who built it, and who also on that heAeli have been grorurci down. rind built the shore wall at Peel. I remember I am satl8fied that that beach is falling. him well as an old man when I was a boy. It is well worth trying the experiment of a When they were building the breakwater culvert now. You could 0118113- adopt some at Peel they took thousands of tons of method of closing it from storm. and T are sand and gravel off that shore to build the eonv:need it would be a success. breakwater, and since •then the shore has Mr Radcliffe: I think the time has been falling; to the extent it is now. If arrived when we should take this matter of some of the sand taken from the breakwater Peel Harbour into consideration. In any had been deposited on that beach, it might ordinary business, if a particular depart have raised it, and saved this expense, be- ment of the business had proved for many cause before the breakwater was formed it was quite 15ft. highes bhan it is at the yehrs to he a failure, sensible and intelli- present t:me. The sand and gravel should gent business men would let that depart- never have been taken from the shore, but ment drop Members of the Court are no under the circumstances T don't see that strangers to the feet that, for the last tee them is ally remedy for the damage done or twelve years, Peel has been constantly but that euegested by Mr Bieker. begging. There seems to be no time when The Clerk of the Rolls: I only want to Peel doesn't want. And they return nothing for it. There is no justifiable say one word, and that t.51 to drawattontion to the very careful way the Harbour Board reason why Peel should be kept open as a look after the interests of the Island. We seaport town. There is no trade, and the have every reason to eongratulate our- fishing industry is decaying. I venture to selves that in the great storms that swept say that the shipping of Peel is of very over the Island last September from both little importance indeed, and here the whole east and west more damage was not Isle of Man is losing money year by year done. T am sure that anyone who in making large grants for the purpose of watched Vie seas breaking over the break- preserving harbour works that are not water on New Year's Day must have won- needed. I think that is the greatest folly deixel how it stood. That the damage done in the world, and if this policy is to be was hardly worth speaking about shows continned, other ports, like Douglas, whr re the care Whet the Board have exercised in there is a tremendous amount of traffic, their work. and Ramsey, with its heavy work in ship- Capt. Moithtin: When I was salving ping, will demand more attention. They the St. George 22 years ago, there was a cannot get what they ought to have,.and good cart roadway from that beach. The yet Peel, which does nothing for the sea' then expended its force on the shingle revenue, is constantly receiving the On the beach, and the wall -look no harm Island's money. 7 don't say I shall vote whatever. At that timel also think there against this grant, but I think the Harbour were a number of stones on the beach from Commissioners ought to use greater pre- the Fenella Hotel on the headlands, but caution in this matter. The Receiver- all stones on a beach like that will be General has tried to bolster up the case as ground to sand in the course of time. By well as he rould, but I know it is very hard building the breakwater you have pre- te make a good ease owl of a had one. vented sand and shingle being washed (Laughter). round, and I would suggest, to counteract this, and also probably to stop the silting Mr Quine: I think the present moment of the harbour. that a culvert ought to be is an opportune one for the Harbour Com-

St, Patrick's Isle Sea Wall. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 65 Missionera to consider whether they can member for South Douglas, in which he effect any improvement at Peel. We have says that the state of things which caused such a number of engineers in this Court, that big expenditure last year is rapidly and • sometimes amateur engineers really coming towards the recurrent stage. have their question well in hand, and are Whilst I shall vote for this grant, I would more correct than even paid engineers. like, and I think the Court generally would Take the case of the Midland Railway Co., appreciate it, too, to have the Receiver- when they made that port on the other side, General give us some idea of what steps Heysham. People on that coast said it the Harbour Board have taken to obviate would cost more to dredge the harbour tho'necessity of the large recurring expen- there than it was worth. Engineers from diture which was last before us last year. London and elsewhere, who were experts, Mr A. Qualtrough : I am not in favour thought otherwise, but it has been proved • of the Harbour Board fixing this wall again, that the people with local knowledge were but I am very much in favour of a culvert correct. There is the question spoken of being bored right through the wall, al. by the hon. member for South Douglas. 11.3 though it is the finest piece of masonry asks the Harbour Board to do two things work I have seen in the Isle of Man. I which appear to me to be quite opposite. went there last Thursday to see it, and f First, they are to make the culvert, and believe that if a culvert was made right then they are to put stones on the beach, through the wall, it would stop any further to protect it. I take it that if the Board silting at the breakwater. I don't often make this culvert, they would take away agree with the hon. member for South the protection for the beach. They must Douglas, but on this point I do. I am sure decide to do one of these two things, I that if a way was made where the sea has think. Of course, the Harbour Board will pointed out that it wants a way throug.a, take this suggestion into consideration, no there would be no further trouble at Peel. doubt, but I think we should vote this I move that the matter be adjourned, and money, and leave it to the Board. that the Harbour Board consider the Mr Garside: I feel that I have to vote question. for this grant, but I think one or two Mr J. Qualtrough : 1 don't think it is remarks are quite justifiable in criticism wise to consider the question of a culvert. of the Harbour Board itself. Last year we There are great difficulties in the way. voted £6,000 towards Peel Harbour, and would destroy the approach to the harbour then we voted a further grant of £545 in A vessel coming into the- harbour with 41 connection with the same object. At that south-west wind could not get in with the time I don't think any members of the rush of the current of water coming Court opposed the grant, but there was through the culvert. I don't think it would some criticism as to whether the policy of answer the purpose intended. I think that the Harbour Board, which had led up to the work that the Receiver-General sug- such expenses recurring time after time, gests needs to be done, and I think the end op;dicatorie bein,o mode to the Court Court should vote the money at once. It in connection therewith, was quite justifi- is repair work, and if it is not repaired, ;t able, and a suggestion was made that a will mean more money later on. committee of the Court should take the grant into consideration. It was pointed Mr Kermode: May I explain— (Cries out that the work in question needed to be of "order," and a Voice: You have spoken done, and would have to be done in any already.") ear,e, and 1 believe that, with! the pressure Mr Kermode: I know, but— (Renewed that was then put on the Court to pass cries of "order," during which the hon. that grant, there was an implied promise member sat down). either that a committee would be appointed The Receiver-General (replying): 1 didn't or that the Harbour Board, . who were come to the Court without recognising the close touch with the matter time after high pinnacle upon which the hon. member time, would give their consideration to this for South Douglas stands in reference to recurrent expenditure. I don't say that nautical matters. But I . do say, that on w1-.at we are d's^u,Knri, to-clay iF a recur- many occasions he makes very reckless rence of expenditure we had before us statements, and statements which cannot then.. I am forced to my remarks this be verified.. I think I shall prove that morning by the observations of the hon. before I sit down. Some of the statements

St. Patrick's Isle Sea Wail. 66 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915.

made by him to-day may lead the Court the shore, and also relieve us of the lia- think that there is a great deal more in the bility of carting to a place further away. matter of the culvert than there really is. But the Peel Town Commissioners are I have a good deal of experience of this exceedingly anxious that the shore shouli Court, and when this vote was to be con- be maintained in a nice sandy face for the sidered, I at once said to myself, as f purposes of bathing. It is gratifying, usually do, ''What is likely to be said about must admit—for I am only human—that it?" I said, " My hon. friend, the one should now and then hear some kind hon. member for South Douglas, is and generous words said about the Harbour sure to trot out his culvert, and; therefore, Board, and I appreciate to the fullest I must be ready to make some statement extent what has been said by the Clerk of in reference to it," The matter has been the Bolls, the congratulations. offered by very carefully considered. Some consider- him, because, through the foresight of our able time ago I had a conversation with officials, a considerably greater amount of your Excellency with reference to this damage has been prevented. On the other question, and I then told you, as I have hand, we have the hon, member for Ave, told members of the Court, that this matter Mr Radcliffe, always against poor little had received the careful attention of the Peel. (Laughter). Whenever lie is in the engineers, and we must be guided largely act of abusing Peel, lie always advocates by the engineers' advice. I admit, with the claims of Douglas ; but does he ever the hon. member for Rushen, Mr Wile, assist Douglas, when it comes to be a ques- that you may sometimes have inforniat'on tion of Douglas asking for anything? lie outside that possessed by engineers which says now that all this money is being may he of value. But if we were to come wasted at Peel, where there is no harbour, to the Court with our own ideas only, the and no business, while ;Ramsey and Dou- Court would ask at once. "What is your glas want the money badly, and are not skilled opinion?" 'The hon. member for getting it. It is no use , here are the South Douglas made a statement, and T works ; the works have to be kept up ; and ask him for his authority for it, to the one has nothing more to say.' He says I effect that sand had already accumulated have tried to bolster up my case. I have in the dredged area to a very large extent. used nothing but the facts, and I have put I ask him for his. authority. I say that is the facts before the Court, and if the Court not correct; the gales have not brought will look at those, mid face them, I :110 sand into the dredged area to any satisfied whatever decision the Court may appreciable extent. The north-west oome to. The hon. member for North Dou- wind it is which does that, and the glas, Mr Garside, who -generally takes a recent- heavy winds have been south-west, very liberal view of things, implies that and, if that continues, we don't anticipate there was an undertaking by the Harbour that there will he much trouble by silting. Board. when the questioriof Peel dredg- Then the hon. member talks about the ing came on., that we were to take notes bench, and the gravel and sand there. Mr of groynes on the south coast of England, Blaker informs me that the question ef and to report, and then the Court might whether the beach consists of sand or appoint -a committee to see if some groynes shingle depends upon whether the wind is might lie put down at Pod in the•future. in or off shore. We know that on that I beg to assure the Court that we have shore there is a considerable amount of not lost sight of the matter. It was our sand when the wind is driving it in, but if intention during August and September the wind shifts, in a very short time the to view these South Coast places, and— sand is gone, Another question is, the Mr Commie: You should explain who shore does not belong to the Harbour Board, "we" means. It doesn't mean the whole but to the Peel Town Commissioners. and Harbour Board. (Laughter). they are guarding it very carefully. The shore is a bathing-place. (Mr Icer- The Receiver-General : One is apt to put mode: "No.") At least, that is the that little "we" in, It was intended impression they give us, that if we put any- that a deputation from the Board should thing on the shore that is detrimental to go. But we were told from South Coast bathing, it will be a serious matter for places that if we had dared to show our Peel. We could tip as much sand on to faces and be seen inspecting the shore the shore as we could take out of the har- works during war times we should have bour mouth, hoping blurt it would fill up been arrested as German- spies. (Laughter.)

St. Patrick's Isle Sea Wall. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 67

Seriously, we know that the war has upset the fairway of the harbour. Then, whereas many things, and it has upset our intention the hon. member for Bushell, Mr A. Qual- ftrWs !natter. We theoght it hotter to wait trough, thinks that the point of the break for the present. But at the same time water is the point where improvement. the matter is being carefully watched, and would he effected by the construction of a any report we can make to the Court will sluice, Mr Maker thinks that that is the bo made. Our or two members have men- very p:ace will not be -affected. Then, tioned this idea of the culvert. Well, I the whole result of such a work is problem- knew what was likely to occur at this atical; it is not really known by anybody, Court, and I asked the Board's engineer but after carefully inquiring into the matter to give me his notes with reference to his during the past few years, ever since the opinion as to making a sluice in the cause- idea was first suggested by the hon. mem- way at Peel, and in a report which 1 ber for South Douglas, in whose judgment received from him this morning , itli I at times have a great deal of oonfiderice- Blaker says :— at times, I must say—(laughter)—.T have 1.supposing we had a slnice through the been led to the solid conclusion that it aal*ieW XY and across the beach, let. its cci would lie a eTeat mistake to do anything of wheat. takes Place-- The flood tide runs up the coast., i.e., the sort. And then there is the other towards the north. It also flows into the aspect of the case that. Mr Bicker has inner harbour month at the same time, pointed out, the cost, which would probably i.e., in a eantherly direction; therefore, the str,mai of water coming through the run tip to £20,000, (Capt. Moughtin: alnico would meet that coming into the "Rats!" and laughter.) There you have harbour mouth, The two currents being of equal. or nearly equal strength, you the opinion of a practical man. I think would get dead, or nearly dead. water; need say nothing further, but ask the Court anyway tl.ere woula he no scouring to vote for the resolution. strength in either current 2. The ebb tide flows south. The current The Governor : I should just like to echo would. therefore. flow in at the harbour what the Clerk of the Rolls has said, by mouth and out through the causeway; but in doing so would tend to bring sand into way of congratulating the Harbour Board the harbour. and deposit it just inside the and the Isle of Man generally upon the old pierhead, where an eddy would form. exceedingly satisfactory state of our sea 3. Whatever were done, no sluice in the cause- way would• ever induce any current, to go works, ;%//,1 t.he exceedingly small amount round towards the lifeboat slipway, so of damage that has been done by the very that the sand lying behind o. line drawn severe gales of this winter. As the Clerk from the point of the little jetty under the Cagtle, to the point. of the Breakwater. of the Rolls has said, this reflects very would certainly never be touched by the great- credit upon those gentlemen who are since or "sluice.induced" currents, called upon by their official duties to see 'Fe do any good a volume of water equal to at least half that which can flow in that these works are in a proper condition, end out of the inner harhour entrance and the Isle of Man may congratulate itself should come through the sluices. The upon possessing a body of very able and entrance is about 130ft. wide; ergo, the sluices should be 60ft. or 70ft. wide. It hard-working servants. would be a very expensive matter to con- struct, gates. and machinery for operating The motion was carried, ag,t. Moughtin them. strong enough to withstand the voting "No." blows delivered by the storm waves - - against. this causeway. SEA WALL AT PORT ST. MARY. f. The sluice= would have to he cut through the beach at ]east down to low watez The Vicar-General moved:— mark, which means a channel right across That a grant of £1.000 be made to the nigh- Fenella Beach. a distance of 30011. Imagine ay Boa.rd out of the moneys standing to the a channel in that situation 300ft. long credit of the Isle of Man Accumulated Fund for 16ft. deep, and 60ft. or 70ft. wide. to be the PurPose of repairing damage done to the constructed, and then kept clear of sand. sea well alone Pert St. Mary Bay, and for 5, I have given this question a great deal of preventing an crtension of such damage. thought, but J cannot see how any good The Vicar-General: I move the resolution could result from having a sluice in the causeway. The cost of the sluices, gates. standing in my name. I think the resolu- machinery, etc., would be considerable, tion on the agenda sufficiently indicates to probably not less than £15,000 or .£20.00D. and it is vary doubtful indeed whether members of the Court the road that is in- any benefit would he derived volved in, the present, proposal of expendi- Continuing, the Receiver-General said: ture. It is the road near Strandhall, You will see the danger that Mr Blaker extending along Port St. Mary hay, z-1 large fears from such a method; and that is the length of which is, as is known. kept in one thing that the Harbour Board want to place by a retaining sea wall. I don't think avoid, the formation of any sandbanks in I need point out to members of the Court

Sea Wall at Port St. Mary. 68 - TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. how exceedingly important, and growinel.v incurred in connection with that road in important., the roads of this Tslend are to the near future. In that report, also, they the community. Seeing that this damage make reference to a sum of money expended his been done by recent storms. with the on that road in 1895, In 1808, the Bo..:.rd possibility of future storms daring the say that they have had to spend £804 on remainder of the winter and in the spring, repairs to the sea wall and road abutting it will be manifest to all of us that the on Port St. Mary Bay, which was largely work should be at once put in hand, because damaged during the gales of October, 1896, every day's.delay racrerwes the possibility of and that this large expenditure has con- very considerable extension of the damage. siderably crippled the finances of the Just at this time, itis particularly useful Board. The work carried out by the Board that work should he supplied in the distriet . hos been, they believe, thoroughly well of Port Erin and Port St. Mary, because. done, and they trust it will prove sufficient as must he known to most of -us, a large for many years to come. "This road," they number of persons engaged in building continue, "has always been a source of operations are out of work, and are very anxiety to the Board, and they call th, seriously placed owing to the cessation of special attention of your Excellency to the building in that district. Whatever ex- subject in a special report." SO that the penditure is made, it will be useful to a necessity for spending £800 on this road whole section of the coinmunity inhabiting crippled the Highway Board in its operations the southern parts of the Island. It was in the year 1898. I think we must all only at a very recent meeting of the High- recognise that the Highway Board at the . way Board that the report of this damage present time, having regard to the extra was made to that Board: . Immediately cost and the extra importance of preserving afterwards, at the request of the Board, I in good repair the highroads of the island approached his Excellency, and asked if he are in very much more straitened Circum- would be prepared to recommend to the stances than in those days. Although the Court the'expenditure of the sum of £1.000 revenue of the Board has increased, very to repair the damage already done, and to slightly, the obligations of the Board have prevent the risk of further damage in the very largely increased. The advent of immediate future. At .that time T in- motor traffic, which is now such im- formed his Excellency that £1,000 was portant.feature in the Islmid, from the point roughly estimated to be required for the of view of our visitors, has entirely altered work. Since then Mr Kay, the Surveyor- the circumstances of the Board during the General., whom I shall ask to give evidence, last few years. Last year the Board were has gone into the matter carefully, and has compelled to spend £550 above their come to the conclusion that a sum of £1,530 ordinary annual income, and it was found could very usefully and properly be impossible to do otherwise. If the Board expended on this wall now. He says, in is now compelled to meet this large expendi- effect, "I can do this work, repair the ture, it will more than clippie them, from present damage, and ward off risk in the the point of view of the Board in 1808, in future, for some time to come, by the ex- their operations for the year; it will mean penditure of 21.000; but it would be very a saving in differei:t directions which must much more economieal to spend £1.530. operate adversely to the interests of the which would immensely lessen future r'sk." People of the Island, both in their own use I need hardly point out how very important of the roads, and in the use of the roads is this road. it is enormously used by made by visitors. Under these circum- visitors; streams of visitors coining into stances, I could, in all confidence, approach Port St. Mary and Port Erin in the your Exeellen7 for help in this scatter. morning return by this road through Castle- With your Excellency's consent, I shall, town in the afternoon or evening. Also, it with the leave of the Court, ask that the is the road entirely used by residents who sum of £1,000 mentioned in the resolution desire to travel by road between Castietown be increased to £1,530. Because, as Mr and Port St. Mary or Port Erin. I would Kay will tell you presently, by spending refer very briefly to previous reports of the I £1,500 now, a large saving will be effected Highway Board concerning this road. In in the future. He thinks that with £1,000 1896 the Board report that considerable I there coukl only be a kind of patched-up damage had been done by the winter gales job, and the result will be continuous ex- to the road at Strandhall, and they fear penditure for the future. We have spent very considerable expense will have to be £120 in the last two years in patching up

Sea Wall at Port St. Mary. TYNWALD bOtRT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 69 this road. We really could not spend parts of the old wall that are giving way. more; though, if we had had funds avail- The parts that were repaired a year or two able, we should have immediately spent a ago are standing all right at present, and large capital sum, to prevent this constant it is not proposed to do anything with annual dribbling away of the Board's funds. those. But there are several parts of the The 120 spent has really done nothing wall built of stones placed vertically instead but stave off the evil day for a matter of of on the flat, and these in two or three weeks or months. We are now faced with places are giving way. We propose to take a very serious difficulty with regard to th's out and reconstruct the walls that are in road, and if the money is not expended, the any way showing signs of giving way, and road will disappear. If the road disappears, also in one or two places to underpin por- it will be a public calamity to the Isle of tions of the wall where the sea is getting Man. in underneath. Mr A. Qualtrough seconded. The Clerk of the Rolls: These are places Walter R. Kay, Surveyor-General, was between the Kentraugh cottages and the -worn. foot of Fisher's Hill? They are not within The Vicar-General: You are Surveyor- the Port St. Mary boundary? General of Highways, and have carefully Witness: The Port St. Mary boundary is examined the retaining wall of this road, the roadway going up to four or,..kttages close and the condition of the road, since the to the Brewery, just where the roads divide, report was made to the Highway Board at The sea is encroaching on the strip of land their last meeting? adjoining the road, and that wall will before Witness: Yes. long need to be built up, but I haven't in- The Vicar-General: Just describe what eluded anything for that portion at present. you found. I have confined myself to between Strand• Witness: I found that, taking the length hall and Kentraugh. of the road wall from Strandhall to Port The Clerk of the Rolls: You don't pm- St. Mary boundary, there were perhaps a pose any expenditure between the Shirxre dozen portions with retaining walls built Inn and the Brewery ? at different times, some by private owners Witness: Except in one place, close to and some by the Board. Other portions the Shore Jun, that place where I spoke were just the earth and clay banks stand- of the stones b.ei,ng placed in vertically. ing out from three or four to ten or fifteen The Vicar-General: You have your esti- or twenty feet from the south of the road mate. Suppose you had only £1,000, you wall. Oradually, each year, portions of would hate to do a certain amount of this earth bank have been washed away, pa tch-work ? until the sea has got to the road wall, and Witness: I should reduce the amount of during recent gales, a portion of the new retaining wall, and spend part of the retaining wall has been broken into just money in patching up. I don't think that about 200 yards from the bottom of Fisher';. that patching would be satisfactory. It Hill. Then there are four or five other would mean that some tfaue in the com- portions of the wall, built at different paratively ne:n- future, the work would times, just as they gave way', in order to come up again. Not only so, but some preserve the road, and what I suggest— portions of the work would have to be left The Vicar-General: Part of the wall is out altogether. The saward side of the gone, part of the roadway also? cal is about six or eight feet away hori- Witness : Yes. the sea has come just into zontally from the wall, and tire sea in the the roadway. There are three or four por- oonrse of a year or two will get in there, tions of the wall that have been built, one and the work will have to be done again. only 11 feet long, another 50 feet, another I think the more economical method would 1.80 feet, leaving parts of the clay hank be to do the whole work at once. open in between these isolated portions of The Receiver-General:What is the length wall. What I now suggest is that the in- of the retaining wall to he put in? tervening parts be now built up into is Witness For the first part, 162 yards; proper retaining wall, so that there will be and then there is one length of 100 yaniS no fear of the earth giving way there, and or a little over, near Kentraugh farm. taking the road with it. Further along The Receiver-General: What is the area towards Port St. Mary, there are several of the damage?

Sea Wall at Port. St, Mary. 70 TYNWALD COURT, .IANITARY 26, 1915.

-Witness: About 250 or 260 yards, in inland. (Hear, hear.) As I remember, small pieces. conning along the road, there is a con- klr Southward: What is the average siderable drop from the road to the shore, height? and a good deal of it is earth, perhaps with Witness: From the foundation, from 12 ,limestone at the bottom.. I am not quite to 16 feet. sure of that. I don't know whether it is The Clerk of the Rol It seems to be possible to do so, but would it not be rather hurried that you should first of all cheaper to put the road a little furher ask for £1,000, and then go up to £1,53Q. back? The Vicar-General. It was only at the Witness: I don't think so. it would last meeting of the Board that the report interfere with certain farm buildings, and of the damage was made. Mr Kay had there would be a considerable length of not then the opportunity of going care- new road to be made. fully into the matter, but the has been Mr Garside : What is the actual distance ? three days down at the place since. When Witness• 3nst over half a mile, we came to his Excellency, we really had Mr ()nine: Have you (onside:rod the it ready in the roughest possible way. feasibility of removing the road, as com- Witness: 'that just referred to one pant pared with the repairing of the wall? of the wall, and then I was instructed to Witness: I haven't gone into it. But examine the whole of the wall from one you could not remove the road without end to the other. expending a good many thousands of The Clerk of the Rolls: Waa that after pounds. you found that his Excellency was so Mr Quin:: What amount of money will pliable. (Laughter.) You could spend you require to spend on this road in future £6,000 as easily as £1,500, 1 expect? to make the whole of the wall permanent? Witness: It was really, I think, because it was mentioned at the Board meeting that Witness: I :haven't gone into it, but it there were other portions of the wall that would be very considerable. In some places were not in a satisfactory condition, and the shore is some distance away from the it would be better if I went over the whole road, and it is not likely for many years length, and saw what was needed. that the wall would fall in there. Mr Cormode: Is it the practice of your Mr Quin°. Have you any knowledge of Board to have work of this thorn-ter done how fast it is washing away at Rentraugh, by the Board's own workmen, or by tender? where the old lime-kiln was? 'Witness- Both ways, Personally, if I Col. Moore: Part of that is a long way ould get the men, I would prefer doing from the road. the work myself. It is a question, too, of Witness: There was a retaining wall whether the Board would care to take the there at one 'time, but I understand the risk .of the work, stones have been taken away. The Clerk of the Rolls: What proportion Mr Crennell: What is the nature of the of the roadway between Fisher's Hili and shore? Kentraugh is already secured by a- retain- Witness: The soil is a mixture of clay ing wall, and how much greater length do and marl, and the shore is shingle, and you now propose to put in? the rock comes out perhaps five or six foot Witness : I should say that about a quar- ! below the shingle, close up to the wall. ter of the length is already walled, It The Clerk of the Rolls: Have you a plan wiU be over half, at any rate, when this of any other portion of tine hay? is done. Witness: I 'have the ordnance map. The Clerk of the Rolls: The remaining (Prodneed.) half of the roadway is very near to the i The Clerk of the Ras: Have you a rock shore. is it not foundation? Witness' It is fifteen or twenty feet Witness: With:n four or five feet of the away; I should think. I haven't considered surface we have found rock, but I would i t not like to say that it extends for the whole The Clerk of the Rolls: But you might ' length 7 have not had time to make be called upon in a short time to put in a. trial borings the whole length. retaning wall along the whole of it. The question, to my mind, is whether it would Col. Moore. I think it does. not be a caper to remov. the road further The Governor You think that if this

Sea Wall at Port St. Mary. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1015, 71 work is done, no further repairs will be re- Witness: You need a wall there to hold quired for a considerable dine? the road up. Witness: Yes. Mr Cratinelli: 17,:s, a small wail, but not Mr Kermode: Where do you propose to a sea wall, • get the stone from? Witness: At Peel, the atom-, 'WAS close at Witness. From the quarry, and there hand, and it was comparatively easy to are large sections of gravel on the shore place it in the position required. near by. Mr Orem:ell: That is so. Mr Kermode: Don't you think it would Witness: It would be very difficult to harm the beach to take that gravel away P _et stone for the wall here. Witness: Not at that place. Crennell: You said there was a quarry Mr Ki.rmode. Are you aware that a lot • _use at hand. of 0-linage 13415 been done by taking gravel Wanes.s. We were stopped from using it. off the short:, in the immediate vicinity? The Clerk of the Rolls: A great deal of Witilt?&S, Tillere are some places where the Ganite property is supported :by a re- &Ian age has been done. taining wall, and it has stood very well? Capt. Moughtin. That is what has been Witness: Yes. done in Peel: taking stones from the shore Mr Orennell: There was aa• wall put up, adjacent to the place where building was apparently, a few years ago, and it is being done. giving way now. This is a very large sum The Clerk of the Rolls: But those are of money for a purpose like this; I feel details whielt the Hig.hway Board could very doubtful about it. consider. Thorn Are places this neigh- The gerk of the Rolls: I was thinking bouithood where the Highway Board are about moving for the appointment of n prevented by injunction from taking gravel mum:11-LT. off the shore. Mr Crennell: So was I. Mr Cronne11: Was this damage done to the roadway where there was a wall? Mr W. Christian : The wall that was Ludt recently stands good still? Witness: No. There was a small road \\Thiess,: Yes. wall abort feet 6 inches or four feet high on the top of the earth bank, Tho earth Mr W. Christian: But the portions now bank was gradually getting eaten away, in question were built 40 or 50 years ago? and the mid wall was being carried with it Witness: The walls that have given way are shown on. the ordnance map drawn up Mr Orenuell' You say that part of the between 1865 and 1868; old wall is being taken away. Is it be- cause of the batterin., of the sea, or be- Mr Oormode: Don't you think we could cause it was being 'undermined? remedy the whole thing by putting in a culvert? (Timid laughter.) Witness. Both reasons. Mr W. F. Cowell: Your Excellency, I Mr Orel...nen : Won't that happen again? beg leave to move that a committee be The sea, when it strikes the bank: scoops appointed from this Court, along with Mr out from underneath the wall. Won't you !linker, the Harbour Commissioners' en- get the sea below your foundations again? gineer, to go into this matter. I think Col. Moore: There is rock below. £1,500 is It tremendous amount of money Witness: 1 don't say that in every case for the amount of work done. know and wo shall get down to the rock, but per- led sure that. this £1,500 could be spent to haps 30 or 40 or 50 feet away from the advantage I 'have no objection to the south o€ the wall, the rock outcrops on Highway Board, but seeing that it, is an the shore. encroachment of the sea, I feel sure that Mr Crennell• Then ycu have the wall the best thin to do is to appoint a com- being battered 'town. Have you consid- mittee. including Mr Maker, who could ered the practicability of adopting such a give PVILCtical advice on the matter. scheme as is adopted in front of the Pro- Mr T. H. Cormode: Had we not better menade at Peel placing solid boulders tar adjourn now? fLanghter.) front of the wall to protect it? You can His Excellency: Suppose we- adjourn to never have any undermining if you do 9-40—that VII give us an hour and a half? that, and you need have no sea wall on the The Court then rose. .ar th. tan resuming after :uneh, • Sea Wall at. Peit St. Mary. 72 TYNWALD COURT, JANVMt 26, MO.

Col. Moore said: There is no doubt about damage will be done, and more money than the danger of this place, and as it is the the present scheme asks for will be de- meet important thoroughfare between manded. it only requires an inshore wind Castletown and Port St. Mary and Port Erin, the work of repairiaig will have to and a high tide, and I fear that the road be done at once. (Hear, hear.) As to the will crumble away. This matter has been question of cost, I do not understand that, rushed upon the Board, no doubt, and but as to the forming of a committee, I perhaps they have not had full time to think it is-a complete mistake. The High- consider how far they should repair this way Board can .superimterid the work as road. That is a matter which will come up good as any committee that this Court in detail as time goes on, and providing may appoint. The Board are quite equal that the road is not iu the immediate to this work, which must be done. The danger of being swept away. There are, of work that is to be done has not been ex course, coast erosions going on in various pended upon 'before. The previous amountt: places, and the Highway Board deem it expended were not on this portion of the necessary that the whole matter should be wail. This place has not given way before. gone into, so as to -prevent further damage. I think the Court %rill be doing the right There are only two proposals, and that is thing if they allow the present Highway not referring the question to a Committee Board to do the work. of this Court, but that we repair this roan Carine: My remarks will be princi- or purchase land inland and make a new pally confined-to the price, £1,500. I have road. I am satisfied that this will not be not quite grasped how this work is to be the cheapest. You will have to purchase superintended and the extent of the work farm buildings. good arable land, and still to be done. What I do object to is tliL fortify the coast against the encroaching method of payment with regard to this of the sea. Besides, it would cost consider- work. The usual system for the payment; ably more to fill in this new road than to of works is by borrowing the sum required, repair the old road. I think some member and repayment to be made so as to cover a of the Court asked Mr Kay if the work natinber of years. Tho Highway Board 5.s could not be done by tender or oontract. exceptionally well favoured. One cannot have some little knowledge about this End remember in regard to the Highway Board of work. I am satisfied that tl c Highway that grants have been made by the Court Board is the proper body to do this work. under this system. With regard to the I know the overseer of Ruslien. I ran system, I think that it is high time that satisfied that, along with the supervision the Act giving power to such bodies should of the Surveyor-General (Mr Kay), the be amended. I think that the system cf work could be more cheaply done than by the Highway Board, from their recent com- lender. Then, your Excellency, the work mittee reports, are not at all fair to the that has already been done is not the work other Boards, I draw attention to one of that is now damaged. Perhaps some of their reports, which reads: "The Boardhas the -members will remember that the money not at present sufficient income for the spent many years ago was spent 01.1 the proper malartenanee of :highroads." They -mist end of the road—that is to the east of have many exceptional payfnents. I sub- the Strandhall Farm. It was then cun mit that the Highway Board should borrow sidered to be a tremendmis amount. The the money for such extraordinary expendi- work was done by the IT:ghway Board, and ture: and that it should he -repayable in P. is new, that work is a permanent work, an nor ta.rr number of years out of the nate. everlasting work. I am sure it is a credit The Vicar-General: We cannot increase to the men and to the harshen Overseer, our rate. who made it. It is in the west that the Mr Carine : You can borrow the money. present breach has been formed. The Mr J. Qualtrough: I don't support tbi, erosion has been going on there winter after proposal. I don't see the necessity for a winter :Intl the road itself has given way. Committee. There are sometimes circum- hope the Court will take the wise step. stances which almost enforce this Court to I am satisfied that the only proposal that 3 adopt such attitudes. They, for instance. Committee can consider is—whether it is when schemes are presented, refer thi- worth saving the old road, or making a new matter to a Committee of the Court, who road. To spend this £1,500 on the present report on the scheme. In -this scheme t road is by far the cheapest and the best cannot be so. If we delay the matter the The- road is there. it is well formed, and breach will possibly become larger, more coated with good metal. If you went to

Sea Wall at Port St. Mary. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1.915. 73

make the new road, it would nearly cost add several miles to their journey. There- that amount to purchase the ground for fore, the road 's necessary. The question. the new road. to my mind, is whether we can get to the The Vicar-General: Oh: much more than rock to lank° this a lasting job. I knov that. this place perfectly. There is no shore, Mr J. Qua!trough : any rate it woull and the sea is encroaching, It is 2ertain be futile to refer the matter to :1 Commit- that something will have to be done. The tee. T am not against a Cemmittee, but I quantity of gravel that is being taken off am arguing the point which is the best the beach may have something to do with course to take, I have not gone into the that. In former years the Castletown matter, but T am safsfied that the repair- shore, the Port St. Mary shore, and the ing of the sea wall is the best way. (Hear. Port Erin shore were open to carting, and, hear.) The work will not he in unwise as a consequence, the quantity taken off hands. It will be eontrollcd by the. E;4.T this beach was comparatively small. But veyor-General of the Board. I ,vant now that the beaches that I have named point out that it is :1 question of saving are protected, there has bren an invasion time, for further damage may be done at of carts, There is a great quantity of sand any moment. It will be w.se to nonimence being moved, and I don't th'nk it is taken at once, and T hnpe the Court will decide from 50 feet outside the high water mark. to do so at once. The gravel is being taken ar.-ay. One knows Mr Radcliffe: I :he that this radii or sea wall is protected by rern 'IS of the hon. member for North gravel and sand. From time to time I have Douglas and the hon. member i'or Et:short. noticed carts on the beach, and if they were They are both practical men. and hove an outside the 50 yards stipulated. they were understanding of this kind or work. I running very close to it. I don't think don't think there is a roadway more used they were 50 yards oat. km the summer time by our v'sitors than The Vicar-General: Is there not an in- this roadway. We are asked would it not junction he better to build a new i.mo? We would Mr Quine : I think there is an injunction pay more to purchase the ground, without that nothing shall he taken inside the 50 speaking of the roadway at all, than it yards higliwatermark, and I believe it has would cost. to patch up the present road been broken all the Wire. I think this is and make it efficient and in order. it is, one of the chief causes. The same thing of course, advisable that the work should applies to the shore a.t. Derhyhaven. be done at once. Another storm, and pos- Co]. Moore: They don't get much from sibly the whole mad will be gone, and then, Derhyhaven now. instead of £1,500, it would cost. three times Mr Quioe: It used to be so. I don't see that amount. The money at this time will any objection to a Committee being be well spent. At the present. time many appointed. They could consider the .alter- men are out of work, especially men nate schemes. At any rate, if this road is engaged in this particular line of trade. repaired, I am compelled to say that I do Quite 11 number of masons are out of work not think that it will be the last expendi• who have families to provide for. I think tore. There has been considerable en- we could not do better, in a matter of this croaching at the Lime Mins even within sort, than grant the money asked for.. To my memory. It is to the west of Strand- appoint a Committee would he delaying th hall that the encroaching has been lately matter, and that Committee would have 1.- As to the borrowing of the money, I think report. We want to strike while the irea it is a good idea. I have said before that is hot. (Laughter.) The 'Highway Boar it is absolutely necessary that we should will make a good job of it. keep our main roads in thorough repair; Mr Quine: I take it that it is important but if there is not enough money to meet that this road should be there. It is one the expenditure, I do not think that the of the main routes to the south. There are by-roads should he neglected. The main only two main roads. and the traps, car• roads are much better than they used to be rimes, etc., invariably go withorit excel). —all credit to the Board. In the past, tion by way of Ballaheg, Colby, to Port during frosty weather, it WaS not unusual St. Mary and Port El-in, and return by t.11: for a cart to break a hole in the road. if road spoken of to Castletown. If they had we want independent roads we must. repair. to return by the I3nllabeg road it would them. We cannot let them fall away,

Sea Well at Port St. Mary. TYNWALD COVET, JANUARY 26, 1915.

M.- Uremia: It is a very important it would be cheaper to preteJ the present matte: to rush into. It may he adequate, road. What I do feel sure about is that or it may be inadequate. It may move we have no,: got ;C1,600 to spate at this satitfactary. Or it may prOVe unsatisfactory. particular moment, and 1 am quite certain The first thing that strikes me is that the that none of us can tell what the next ..sea is the primary question. It is a ques- twelve months will bring. If it is a bad tmee of preservation from the sea, which is season we shall have nothing in the more a Harbour Board question, Reserve Fund to meet more urgent 1 think there is no reflection on the de mandt-. Flea hen r). Surveyor-General or the Highway Board, Mr Cormode: We had a somewhat in the suggestion that a conun:ttee, along similar question before us a few years ago, with Mr Blaker, go into the matter. It is when Hango Hill was in danger of being not a question of delay. Is is a question of undermined. It was recognised then that w]]ich is the best to do. 1 support ti: if Hango Bill went the highroad would go amendment moved by the him, membe r fo: next, and that was a matter which con- Middle,' that the matter be referred to a cerned the Highway Board. But an committee. It is of great importanee that arrangement was made that the Harbour this wall should be adequately and Engineer should take the matter in hand, permanently protected from further ravage. and the work was carried out by Mr We can sanction temporary repairs—sand- Blaker very satisfactorily. 1 would like bags, for instance. which would preveht to emphasise the point made by the hon. further damage for the time being, until member for Middle, that the advice of Mr the work is properly done. Blaker would'he valuable, that the taking The Clerk of the Rolls: I am not against of it would not he any reflection on Mr the committee. I would like to point out Kay, and that advice should be sought in that it is not a question of labour. If any this matter. As several members of the question arises it is, how is the labour to Court have pointed out, this is more o. he paid? I should like to ask your Excel- matter' for a harbour engineer than for a lency will our Accumulated Funds stand surveyor. I sympathise. very largely with this? We have to consider the question, the remarks of the Clerk of the Rolls, but is it advisable to spend the money unless he has not proposed a way out. it is really necessary? I am quite sure The Clerk of the Rolls: I suggested I that your Excellency cannot tell us that would support temporary repairs. we have sufficient in our Accumulated Mr Cornmode: There is no proposal of Fund. We do not really know our posi- that sort before the House. tion. We have had a bad summer. The The Clerk of the Rolls; It will be later amount of the claims upon this fund is on, if the report of the Committee is lost. exceedingly large. Of course, no grant Mr Cormode; We might refer it back can be made out of the Accumulated Fund Time to the Highway Board. I am not binding without the Oonsent of Tynwald. myself to go for a conunittee under the fund must be low, and I think the time is I am not satisfied they not far distant when we shall have to circumstances. could get any advice which the Highway consider the question of increased taxa- Board could not get. They have not had tion. After this war, money W11 be dear time apparently to get advice; they have for a time, so that we had bettor consider come to us in a rough and ready way. carrefully the matter of going into any They asked, in the first instance, for unnecessary expenditure. I am perfectly £1,000; then they sprang, imp to 4;11,500. satisfied that we could solve this question I think there is a great deal in what the in some way so as to protect this roadway hon. member for Ramsey has said, that from further breaching. The main ques- we might take some temporary measures, tion is one of principle. I think that the and afterwards go into it more thorough- Highway Board should try to raise the ly. I would like to know if—at all events, money themselves. I don't think this is till the war is over—we could not do some- a time to spend money unnecessarily. 1 thing with half the amount. We shall shall not vote for the referring of the have to do something; we cannot allow the matter to a committee, as 111111 satisfied road to be swept away, and it is a waste that temporary work is necessary. The of time talking about making .a new road. question of a new road is a matter which wants seeing into. I am convinced that Mr W. Christian: Some members have

E1ea Wall at Port St. Mary. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 19].5. -- 75

said it is more a matter for the Bat hour to working men in this Island. I presume Commissioners than for the Highway it will provide work for a good many men Board, As far as I am concerned, as a for a long time, and for that reason member of the Highway Board, if the alone the Court should grant this applica- Harbor. .doard choose to do the work, tion to-day. 1 support the motion all I they are welcome to do it, and to find the know. money out of the revenue. But this is really not a question of the maintenance Mr Sonthward: Complaint has been made by various members of the Court of the roads of the Isle of Man at all. It that this matter has been rushed. As a is a case where the sea is breaking in, member of the Highway Board, I may say and washing away the lands outside the that it has been rushed upon the Board, road. Some members seem to think that because this damage has recently taken there has been a wall here helot e. In one part., where the damage has taken place, place, at the spot indicated on the plan there has never been a wall, and ie some by the Surveyor-General. It is necessary planes there is a temporary wall, not at once to deal with the matter, in order sufficient to maintain the road from the to prevent further damage at the present force of the sea. The part we did sonic time nr during the storms which are cer- years ago is standing well, and what we tain to occur before the winter is passed. want to do now is to raise money so that Objection has been taken on the ground this road can be put in at safe condition, that it is not the province of this Court and so that there can he no further sea to provide work. for working men, but if, coming in and doing damage. It is sup- by dealing with damage of this sort, the posed by a lot of people that the length- Highway Board or any other Board can ening of the breakwater has altered the provide work for the working mem current, as in Pee], that the gravel and think it would be a splendid idea. (Hear, sand are shifted from one part to another. hear). 1 think it was the hon. member Whether that is so, I cannot say. There for Bushen, Mr Quine, who has pointed are others who have better knowledge out that in years to come it will be possible for the Highway Board than I have. We may appoint a committee; but if we have owe or two storms in the to maintain the highways at less cost than meantime, the cost of doing the work may they have recently had to expend upon be two or three times as much as it is now. them. I do not think so, because, in the first instance, labour is much more expen- Supposing the roadway is dug into, and we have to form a piece of road as well sive now than it was a few years ago, and, as protect the hedge, the cost will be besides that, the traffic on the main roads greatly increased. Mr Kay said the tem- is much heavier than it was in former porary work had been a partial failure, years; consequently the surface of the road is cut up and damaged, and costs mere to and if we do the same thing again we maintain than it did a few years ago. shall throw the money away. Let us do There is no question that in this ease there something which will he permanent, and is damage., and the question seems to he which will stand the storm. We should whether we shetild expend upon repairs not throw away £50 or k;60 this year, and I £750, or £1.000, or 21,500. It line been the same next year. I have seen that pointed out by the Surveyor-General that, kind of thing clone with old houses— by spending a lesser sum than ;e500, we making temporary repairs—when it week' should simply be dealing with the question have been far cheaper to have pulled ter 1 for the time hieing, and in the future it whole thing down. would be necessary to spend n larger sum Mr R. Clucas : I do not think this Court than that, in order to protect the coast at should hesitate for a moment in granting that point. Now, as has been pointed out. this thousand pounds to carry out this the Highway Board have no money to ex- work, which is all absolute necessity. pend upon_ seek works, and I believe that Considering the damage that is already some years ago grants were made from done, if the matter is hung up, a great Insular funds to sonic similar things. deal more damage will undoubtedly he do not see why members of the Court done, and I think it is the duty of this should hesitate for one moment in "eting Court to grant the money to do the work. £1.500 in order to deal with this matter There is another point about it. This effectively. I appeal to the Conrt to vote money will he found exceedingly useful this grant unanimously.

Sea Wall at Port St. Mary.

76 tYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1916.

Capt. Moughtin : 1 am not altogether Capt. Moughtin : If anything can be able to uLderstand why the Highway spent upon that road to keep it until we sec Board, a an emergency of chis sort, did daylight, I shall support doing what is not spe-2.' ,he money and tell the Court necessary. i think a great deal more has they bad done it. (Laughter). That is what been made of the labour question than there the Harbour Board did the other day; they is any need' fin. We have had missionaries first spend the money; and then tell us they over here from across the water looking for did it. workmen and they cannot get them. Any The Receiver-General: We have not done man can ear n lUs a day at the Liverpool it; the work remains to be done. docks at the present. time. ("Question!") The complaint there is that men will only Capt. Moughtin : That is not the fact. work about four days a week. Instead of They have men over there. I heard the the Isle of Man being overwhelmed with Receiver-General talking about the work. unused labour, we can hardly get the The Receiver-General: That is paid for necessary work done around the docks at out of funds that we had. Douglas. There is a far greater danger of Capt.. Moughtin : In the one case the vote a shortage of labour than of anything else. is passed without a dissentient voice, and The Town Council tried the other day to in the other case we spend an hour arguing make out a case of unemployment, and all whether we should fight the sea or let the the unemployed they could find to register sea take the road. Yet, surely the connec- was 15, and it strikes me that the half of tion with St. Patrick's Island is not so im- those were unemployable. (Laughter). portant as communication with Port St. That unemployment does not exist, and we Mary and Port Erin. Another gale of don't want to take all the labour out of wind may get half-way across that road, Douglas; the south-side people can take and yet we are told that a committee is to that job on all on their own, and leave the survey it. Can you give us a guarantee labour with us that we require. that it won't be swept away by gales in the Mr Curphey: If you do appoint a com- meantime? mittee, is it because you have not confidence The Clerk of the "Bolls: When was the in the Highway Board, or because there are damage caused ? some members of this Court who think Capt. _Moughtin : We have not been told themselves of so much importance that they that, but so long as people are allowed to must be on every counnittee? (Laughter.) remove shingle off the foreshore so long Mr Cowell: 1 will give an explanation of shall we have plcniy of trouble of this suit. that. My reason is simply because the The beach does not grow there. The sea Highway Board has never yet viewed the does not send the ihingle in ; it takes it damage done. away in the form of sand. The bottom of Mr Curphey: 1 Ohl going to support the the ocean is sand and silt, not shingle, and Highway Board, and 1 do not see the sense the only stones that come in from the sea of appointing a committee, because they are stones that may be floated up by sea have the thing already in hand. weed The beach tvi:1 get worse as time Mr Crennoli: We propose to refer it back goes on, and the question is, will you deal to them; That means to take further with the small damage already done, or will advice. you let the road go I support the Clerk of the Bolls in his suggestion to get tem. Mr Curphey: Surely we don'., need to do porary repairs made, and husband our re. that, We have the information in hand. sources a little to see how we stand. I know We have gone into it as far as we can. Wo that when we come here by-and-bye with only got notice last Wednesday. proposals of taxation, it will be very hard to Mr Crenneli: I want you to go nime into convince the Court that taxation is neces- it. sary. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Mr Curphey- : :nu not sure that I shall I not support the Clerk of the Bells' sugges- The Clerk of the Rolls: It all depends on tion that it be £700. (Laughter). I whom you tax. should like to get out of spending 41,500 if Capt. Mmightill: It will be like sending we can. I think tbe -Righway Board are people to the flout ; you always want to the people to do the -work, anti if they aro send the other fellow. not to be Cr listed, let us vote them out and The Clerk of the Boils: You can ;1 ways put others in. tax a minority'. The Vicar-General: In reply to the ob-

Sea .Wall at Nit St. Mary. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 77

nervations which have fallen from hon. service to deal with them. Why is the members, of course, we very much regret Harbour Board to be treated differently having rather rushed this matter on the to the Highway Board? The highways of Court The report as to the damage only the Island are of as west or greater im- reached us on Wednesday last--that is at portance than the harbours of the Island. the last meeting of the Board, after this I would never yield to the argument that date had been fixed by his Excellency for the highways should have to take second the Tynwald Court. Of cow se, it was mani- place, and I see no sense in it. They are fest to the Biased thattls work would have hozh of vital importance to the Island. - to be taken in hand. Nothing turns on us The work done by both Boards is work done rushing down there to look at it. We have in public service so far as I can see, and 1 stopped to look at the wall there dozens of fail to see that there is any distinction to be times, and thedescription given us made the drawn between them. Nor is there any matter .as clear as if we had gaped at the distinction as far as the revenues hole for an hour. We have seen similar of the two Boards - are concerned. holes again and again, and it requires no !'hey are both inelastic: ' So :ong as the great effort of the imagination to project Highway Board is restricted to levying a our minds down there and realise the rate of Rd in the £, its revenue is inelastic, damage reported to us. Any experience of and the Board must from time to time, the work of the Board will show how utterly w:heit extrac.rdimary demands are made fatuous it would be for the Board to rush upon it, resort to the pubhc revenue of the down in every ease and look at what is Island, exactly as the Harbour Board has described. The Board have experience, and always done. But the Court itt..s been so can realise from the report what has oc- accostoried to the Harbour Board coming curred, and what will necessarily be re- as a mattes of right end demanding monieys quired to remedy it. At the same time, I from the oublic revenue that it has come do regret that we should first record an es- to . look upon it as a matter of course; timate of £1,000, and, at the last moment, whereas tiro Highway Board—which has al- ask for £1,500. But, really, the point was ways -been a magnifieently managed Board this. Mr Kay, from what was reported by —not haviillo fallen into the habit of com- the local surveyor, and 'his experience of the ing to beg of this Court, is looked upon as locality, was asked to give a rough estimate an intruder and interloper, when it comes there and then of what it would cost. dime necessity for a small loan. No eon- Afterwards, on a careful examination, Mr ceivable reason can be adduced why the Kay found that if it was done well and econ- Highway Board should not come and ask omically, and to give a good job, then for money from this Court, as the Harbour RI-500 is the sum it would be desirable to Board kris constantly done. The Highway spend, With regard to other matters which Board 'has ',Is much right—:f any right at have arisen, I could not help being im- all exists—to come to this Court for funds pressed and sympathising with the benevo- as the Harbour Board has. It has been lent wish expressed by the hon. member for suggested by the honourable member North Douglas, Mr Carine. I entirely for Ramsey that this is largely a agree with him that the time has come to sea work, and that he would like the consider as to whether it is not desirable 011,1i-don of a sea engineer on the matter. to allow the Highway Board to estimate The Highway Board, I included, have the its expenditure and levy its rate to meet completest confidence in Mr Kay, but we that expenditure. But it has not been done know that Mr Kay is not unduly or up to now; and I have no reason to hope foolishly sensitive, and now I openly offer, that such a state of affairs will come into on behalf of the Board, not to do any work force in the near future. At all events, we at all in the direction of expending any have to deal with facts. as they are, and money the Court grant us, without Mr not as they might be, or as they ought to be. Blakey. consulting with Mr Kay, and their The facts as they are, pot us exactly in a both agreeing with what is to be done.. I line with the Harbour Board. There is not feel sure the Harbour Board will hot place the slightest distinction to be drawn be- any obstacle in the way of Mr Maker ad- tween the position of the Harbour Board vising us in this way. I cannot see what and the position of the Highway Board. conceivable object there is in appointing is What the Clerk of the Rolls meant in that Committee. except to cause delay. Since connection I cannot conjecture. He said the report has been made to us, we have that he was quite prepared when the Har- given all the consideration that can ucefully bour Board came for grants for the public be given to the subject. It is not a nue--

Sea Wall at Port St. Mary. 78 TYNWALD COURT: JAN UAP Y 26, 1915.

tion of an alternative scheme. It is per- crisis. What sort of a revenue will we fectly clear the work must be put in hand have next year if there is no season? The otherwise a most disastrous state of affairs volunteers are costing us 30,000 will occur in the future. No evidence £40,009, and we have voted, very properly. could alter that view; therefore, I see no £10,000 for war purposes, and if we have util:ty in the Committee, With regard to any more money to spend we ought to the suggestion that we should be given spend it on strictly war purposes. We more restricted sum, I cannot see any use have no right, in order to provide work in that either. I think the Court will he for people, to spend money that is not sufficiently guarded by the offer I make, necessary. I am surprised at the atti- that no money is to be spent unless Mr tude of the Vicar-General, who thinks Blaker and Mr Kay consider it necessary. that they are entitled to money from the I move the resolufan, and shall vote Accumulated Fund. They are in exactly against the amendment. the same position is a local authority. The Goeernor: Perhaps might say one The Vicar-General: Our funds are un- word before this is put to the vote. I think elestie, and a local authority ha,, the Vicar-General, in a very clear peech, unlimited powers of rating, has made the points clear to us, but I might The Clerk of the Rolls : 7Tours would be say one word with regard to finance. Tlic if the Court would give you power to levy Clerk of the Polls has asked me say a rate. I have refrained from criticising when this war is going to be over, and Low the work of the Highway- Board, but much it is going to cost us. An old saying money has been spent here and there is, yoe ought never to prophesy unless you which need not have been spent, but they know. I do not know; therefore I won't are in the same position as a local prophesy. The Clerk of the Bells also sug- authority ; they must levy a rate or not gests that the money ought to be borrowed. spend the money. Because their rate 'a With regard to that, I .would only point limited, they seem to think that they can out what we all know—that the TEgliway come to this Court. and get what money Board practically spends up to its last they want. Suppose a local authority did penny, mid even the COO a year er more the same thing. I do not think that the that it would have to pay for the use of Highway Board is in any better position borrowed money would be a very conside.- than a local authority. Let us be fair all able drain upon its resources. Whoa you round to the towns as well as the country. spend a hundred per cent. of your income The Harbou r Commissioners are in an a very small additional expenditure puts entirely. different position. They have no you on the wrong &de. Now, we have revenue except the harbe4ur dues,. and Ll,500 in the Acetunulated Fund, I am except what is voted from the revenue not prepared at this moment to give an for harbour put poses. if the Vicar-General exact account to the Court as to how that is satisfied with £800, it will not prevent fund stands. but we have a considerable them applying again if more is required. sum of money there. If we are going to Col. Moore; I beg to second the amend- he ruined at the end of the war, lock, stock, ment. and barrel, a matter of £1,500 will not The Vicar-General: Let me say that I make renelt difference to us one way or the will be quite satisfied with £800 to carry other. (Laughter.) That is how I look at out the absolutely necessary work at once, it at the moment. The question here con- on condition that if 141,r Maker and the cerns one of the most important roads in Surveyor-General find that it is necessary the Island. Are we going to allow it to go; to spend the whole sum, then we will not or are we not? be precluded from applying to the Court. The Clerk of the Rolls : I move that Tim Clerk of the Rolls: Nothing can £800 be granted, instead of the £1,500 preclude you. asked for. The money is not going to be The Vicar-General: If it is found that spent for some months, and if the Board the money is wanted, it is understood find that it is not sufficient, they can our ease is not prejudiced by accepting apply to the Court for funds to finish the this money. work. I do not wish for one moment to 1. Joseph Qua i trough : I cannot under- hinder the work of the Highway Board, stand why the Clerk of the Polls wishes to but I do wish that every economy should (entail this work in thi.s way. He talks be used with our revenue at the preSent .about tutting. your suit aocordincr to your

Sea Wall at Port St. Mary. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 79 cloth, but it is rather late to do that when interest, being £5 Os 35 for the year ended ;let March, 1313, and &3 12s 3d for the year ended there have been to many votes passed by Mit March, 1914. this Court which could have been reduced Patrick Boar.: of Unard.ane.---£2 171 61, bat.lt more than the- once before bhe Court----- interest, being £1 7-' 2d for the year ended 3191 March, 191.3, and 1...s 61 for the year ended 1 he 0,erk of the Rolls: I understand lit Mardi, 1114 the Chairman of the Highirc,,y Board ac- Rushen Board of Guardians.-15 On 6d, bank cepts the amondment, so that it is no use interest, brine £4 lls 6d for the year ended 31st, March. 1913, and 159 for the year ended discuss:r.g it further. Slit March. 1914 Mr Crennell: I hope that the work will Braddan Board of Guardia-ns.—L3 15s 10d, not be patch-work bank interest, being £3 Is 3i1 for the year ended 31st March, 1913, and fis 7d for the year The Receiver-General: The work will be ended 3Ist, Marth. 1914 done thoroughly as far as the £800 will go. Matcw Board of Guardians.—.51 189 1d, bank Mere will be no patch-work. interest, being 115 ld for the year ended 31i4 march. 1913, and .=:1 fis 6d for the year ended Mr Radcliffe: The hon. member for Ram- 31st march, 1914 sey asks will the work be thoroughly done? j nrby Beard of Guardians.-11 13s Bd, bank Have the' Highway Board in the past been interest, for the year ended 31st March, 1914. in the ha-bit of skimping their work ? The Speaker added: With regard to the it Carside: Do I understand that you Lunatic Asylum account, there was at the will spend the £1,500, and then come to end of the year a- credit balance of the Court to vote you the money? .bank interest of £22 13s, but for Mr Cormode: the £800 will be spent. two-or three days the account happened to Tt is perfectly clear. be overdrawn, and two sums of 5s 2d and Mr Garside: I understood that it is one 3s 10d were charged as interest. It speaks con;plet.0 worir, Are you going to spend well for the exactitude of the audit that, to the 1:800 on the work that is absolutely find this out, they had to strike daily bal- :necessary now, and then come to the Court ances for the whole of the year, so that they for -Hie remainder of the money? You are had a great deal of trouble for very 'little not going to come after the work is com- result. With regard" to the Poor Rate the plete? same thing occurred: On that account the • The Vicar-General Any work that is Beard received hank interest amounting to done w 11 be done thoroughly, but only up £4 2s 9d, and had a cash balance- of -C4' 12s, to the 0800. but every little detail Was examined with The amendment that £801 be voted was microscopical' care, 'and the auditors '-found carried, after a division. Messrs Ambrose interest -charged for -two- bi- three Qualtroneh and Joseph Qualtrough only day; 'As to the Home fOr the Poor, vetin apia:.nst. we have there no working capital, and some of the BoardS of Guardians AUDITORS' SURCHARGES. happen not to have paid the money when it was due, and there haPperied The Speaker moved:— to be a small overdraft. The nest That the irons, as under. disallowed by the auditors in the accounts of the Asylums Beard is £15 its lld, payments mado to- the' Dou- and the Board of Guardians of the Poor glas Board of Guardians for expenses of specified be hereby allowed:- removal, without order of the Court; of A.rlrntts Board. joirlat.ie Asylum Account' :rink interes. 1:eirw. 59 2:1 !or the year persons having no settlement in the Island. endr,1 7.1st March, 1913, a ?id 3s 1.0d for the year In the Poor Relief Act, 1900, it is provided -lit March, 1914. Asyl tats Board. Poor Rate Account.-4s ed. that persons can. be removed from the Island tyink interest. being 39 tel for the year ended whose settlements are not in the island, Hat March. 1913. and Is 3d for the year ended -miler en order made by the Court. There 31st MarY11. 1914. _Asylums Board, Ho ne for the Poor Account. , are a great number of cases of settlement, —£15 is id. bank interest.. being £4 17s 7i1 for lid it has been the practice to send the the year ended 31st March, 1913. and £10 3s 9r1 people to the Home for the Poor till the for th year end,..:d 31st March, 1914. .4.yIntus Board, Latnntic Asylum A ccount.— matter is inquired into by the Court. By £18 14s ltd. being., £3 71 2'l fc r :he year ended arrangement with the Board of Guardians, 31st, Marsh. 1913. and {.10 7a 4c1 for the year it was decided that a number of these ended 31't 3farch. 1911, payments to the liou• fr,las Board of Guardians for klcirent3O5 of re• people, wilh their own con,sent, could he movr0 without order of Court of peiwins sent of the Island . direct, without any having no settlement on the Island Court order. It may intepest the Court to Donti,las hoard of C4:1ar.lials.-21 135 3d, interest for the year ended 31st March. 1913. know that in the two years 145 persons bonan Board of Onardians.--£8 12s Ed, hank were so removed. - Under this system, the Auditors' Surcharges.

SO TYNWALD oouitrr, JANUARY 26, 1915. cost of the removals is 2s 7d each person, EXTERMINATION OF RATS. against. £1 13s 3d each which it cost to Col. Moore moved:— remove 31 persons by order of the Court. That the Treasurer of the Isle of Man be It was 2s id against £1 13s 3d in our favour ; nathorized to apt ly, from the general revenue of the 1Hc •$t :Van, a sum nut exceeding ,-EAGG, but the auditors think that our course is eaabie the Local (3-overt-II:cc-tit Board to take against the Act, but the Board felt justified met. steps as th..y may deem advisable for the in taking the economical course. ,:xtermination cf The Vicar-General: It is not opposed to He said: I have heard some remarks the Act, but there is no authority for it. made here to-day, to raise a smile, which the rats would have been very pleased to The Speaker: Yes. In the cases of the hear if they could have understood. It is, Guardians of Douglas, Lonan, Patrick, however, a matter of some importance, be- Bushell, Braddan, Malew, and Jurby, they camr if we get plague, it will be quite as all had small overdrafts, for which bank bad for the Isle of Man as the war, if not interest was charged ; but I think in only worse. This question of the extermination one case, that of Jurby, was there an adverse of rats has been gone into in several districts balance -at the end of the year. The Court of England with complete success. I need will remember that last May the question not make a long speech, but would instance of these surcharges was referred to a Com- what took place in Suffolk, and if it pleases mittee of the Local Government noard. the Court to vote this money to-day, we That Committee have reported to-day, and could carry the same thing out here. There recommend that these amounts be allowed. !.s no doubt that, apart from the question I beg to move that they be allowed. of disease, the rats do a considerable amount Mr J. B. Kerruisli: I beg to second that of damage. I know of a case of a largo stable where disease broke out among the Mr J. Qualtrough: The present system of horses, and some of the rats were caught money raised by rate being paid into the with the same disease, and the veterinary- hands of the Asylum Board is a very cum- surgeon was of the opinion that there was a bersome means of doing the work. Each distinct connection between them. I would rate collector sends the smug he collects to like to remind the Court of what Dr. the Asylum Board, and lie is quite out of Marshall said when this matter was before control of the Boards, and very much us. The hon, mernbers,said it is not the depends on the alertness of the collector as rats, but the company they keep that we are to whether the Board gets the money in afraid of. These are not pleasant things to time. If the rate collector was under the talk about but we are reminded of the old control of the Board, they could jog him, rhyme :- and get the money in sooner. I hope that Big fleas have little fleas some day the 6w will be altered, and each Upon their back to bite 'era; rate collector placed under the control of And little fleas have lesser fleas, the local Boards. By that means, when And so on infinitum. the Boards find that the rate is net coming It is these lesser fleas, these horrible in, they may require him to get it in. If microbes of plague that we are afraid of. the collector is dilatory, the Board is short It is these little fleas that do the damage. of funds. I can give a case in point. I know that when I was in Capetown it was have been a member of the Board of Guar- alleged that it was the rats that spread the dians of CaStletown for a good many years. plague. I was talking to a member of the The rate collector we have there is the Local Government Board the other day, most regular on the Island, so that we are and the question arose as to how best to ex- never short of money. I hope that the terminate them. I know of a person who time will come when the rate collectors will brought over a rat-catcher from England, be placed under the control of the Boards. and got the rats cleared out of her place, but it is little use doing that, as other rats The Speaker : I don't agree with that. can come in from outside. It can be done, think that the Asylum Board can bring and I have the name of a firm who are more pressure to hear than if the rate col- willing to send an expert to the Island, who lectors were the servants of the Gun rd4ans. will place their services at the call of the We all know what these local Boards are. Board, and if they are given two or three The work is done very well by the collectors. men they will superintend the work. I It is also cheaper under the present system. move the motion that stands in my name. The motion was carried. I believe that the Local Government Board

Extermination of Rats, TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. BI are the proper .people to take charge. of the The Vicar-General: I have no doubt work, and, if the work is done, it will result whatever that there is a great prevalence in great benefit to our Island. or Data in the Isle of Man, but, at the same Capt. Moughtin : I beg to second the time, the member for °miff knows that his motion. I was just thinking while the hon. instructions as a member of the Loyal Manx member was speaking, why not turn some Association, when he is on sentry-go at the of these German prisoners into the rat- Camp, are to look to his front, and it was a catching business. The work might do great dereliction of duty for him to have some of them good. I think, personally, kept looking behind at the rats. Speaking that if we could exterminate the rats for as a member of the Local Government the nominal sum of money asked for that Board, I may say that not a member of that purpose, it would be a very good thing for Board has the faintest idea of how to deal the Island. We know the amount of with the rats. It is no part of their statu- damage they do, and I. should think that ary obligations to exterminate rats, and the proposal would appeal very strongly to they are not disposed to take that obliga- the farming community. We know that tion, unless the Legislature, by an enact- it is the practice when they are thrashing ment, places the duty on their shoulders. to gather all the does in the neighbourhood That being so, I don't see what good object to get the rats when they pull the stacks can be served in passing this motion. down, and we know the damage that the Mr J. Qualtrough : The country members rats must do. From a health., and from a are very anxious to get away by the half- financial standpoint, it would be a good past four train, and the agenda being nearly thing. finished, I trust the rats won't hinder us. Mr Walton : I support the motion, fol. (Laughter). may part, I believe that it is quite possible Mr Quine made some remarks which to exterminate the rats. In my own place could not be heard in the Press gallery. they became so bold that they would walk The Governor : If anybody can really sug- into the room at meal times and sit and look gest a way of extermination which would at us. I spent a lot of money on phosphate largely reduce the rat population of this paste, but it was of no use, but I got some Island, I should think it would be a great virus, and there has not been a rat in the benefit, because, of all foul brutes, I place for six or seven months. Speaking think rats are the worst. If anybody could about the Germans in the Camp. I have make a suggestion as to what actually been there many times on sentry go, and I should he done, I should be very much in have spent the time watching the rats. favour of this motion, but we are very (Laughter). On one side of the bottom vague at present. end of the top camp, in one night, I Capt. Moughtin : The corn warehouses in counted 50 or 60 rats going up and down Liverpool got rid of rats in the same way the drain thea e. I don't say they were all as already mentioned. (C-ies of "Order," different rats, the same one might have and "Yyu have already ..,puti.o, "! 1 au:. passed' two or three times. I believe that speaking on the suggestion of his Ex- they do bring diseases along, and, at any cellency. They got the virus that gives a rate, this will he something for the Local certain disease to the rats, and the rat Government Board to do as an experiment. affected has the power of transmitting it to Mr Crennell: The hon. member appeals all the other rats that he comes into con- to us to exterminate the rats, and if it could tact withlaughter)—with the conse- be done for £100, or for £200, or £300, it quence that he soon clears them out of that would be a fine thing for the Island, but particular locality. Of course, so long as it the Local Government Board have not the keeps on moving, it is like the plague itself ; smallest idea of how to go about it. 1 each neighbourhood gets it, and some may think that your Excellency should let us emigrate to other quarters, but they get it know what sum will be required for the and pass it on. Half-a-crown a box it costs, work. The Local Government Board have I think. I had some of it, and I cleared the not asked' for this, and they have not the rats out of may place. £100 would be welt least idea how to do it. I cannot support spent in distributing this stuff in the vari- the motion till the Local Government Board ous farms of the Island. report to the Court that they have con- The Governor : I would suggest that the sidered the matter, and 'have some scheme. hon. and gallant member for Castletown Till that is done, I feel compelled to vote should postpone his motion until he can against it. bring some concrete proposal before the

Extermination of Rata. S2 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915.

Court. (Hear, hear). If we can make an don't, think it is necessary to point out the organised attack on the rats of the Island advantages derived from this grant, With for a comparatively small sum, it would be regard to the horse premiums, in conversa- well worth while. tion with all the leading farriers of the Col. Moore: I shall be quite pleased to Island_, including the hon. member for Peel, adopt your Excellency's suggestion. Poss- it has been proved that within the last ten ibly the best time would be after the sum- of fifteen years, it has come to take as much mer season is over; it might not be advis- iron to make three horse-shoes, as formerly able to go into the subject at this time of it took to make six. Undoubtedly a larger the year. hoof is a good off-set to a horse. It has been The 'notion was by leave postponed. argued that it isenly the large farmer who gets the benefit of these premiums. I don't think it is so, but the tenant farmer on the 11.011..SE AND BULL PEFAMIIIMS. small farm shares in the benefit•. There hs The Governor: There is ono other matter one instance of a farmer, who didn't farm which is not on the agenda, but which has fifty acres, on the South, who purchased a been. seut up to me to-day—that of the little mare from the Douglas Corporation stallion and bull premiums. I take it that for under £20. By breeding with a the Cont will be prepared to vote the premium horse, in six years that man sold premiums in the usual way this year. The five colts, and realised over £45 each. Committee which deals with these premiums That is practical proof of the fact that the wish to be issuing their notices, and so small farmer derives a benefit from the forth, and though it would be more con- premiums. As regards the cattle premiums, venient, of course, to take this vote when it will be quite within the memory of mem- we take the other ordinary votes, perhaps bers that at our last Christmas fat stock the Court might care to take it now, sales, the first prize fat bullock, the cup although it is not on the agenda. I pre- beast, was bred and fed by a small farmer, sume it will be agreed upon, and need not bred front one of his own cows and a take rip any time. (Cries of "Agreed," premium bull, imported and shown by the "No," rind "There is not time before the hon. member for Michael, Mr R. S. Corlett. train.") These are only two cases out of scores in 1I•t Curphey: We are not bound to go by my own mind, where the small farmer has the half-past four train. derived exceeding benefit, both from the horse and cattle premiums. T. would point Mr Cowell: It is rather important that out also that in these times of war, it be- the Agricultural Society s! add get to know hoves us specially to make all the provision where they are. Within tne next fortnight we can in the way of beef. You will have the principal Shire and Clydesdale shows seen by an advertisement in the Insular take place in England and Scotland, and papers that the price of beef has just gone also there is an important bull sale at up. I say that these premiums have a Penrith it is necessary to get sanction for tendency to keep the price of beef clown. the expenditure of this money, so that we I don't think I need labour the question, may advertise promptly in the various live but I will now move the grant. stock journals, If that is net done, we Mr W. Christian seconded. shall not get the value for our money that we ought to get. Mr Creneell; I oppose this motion for one reason, and one reason only, and I don't The Governor :If the hen. member would want the occasion to pass without express- move that the Committee be authorised to ing my view. I consistently supported the proceed with their usual arrangements, grant while the Agricultural Society, which think it would meet the case. The neces- is, or which certainly should be, one of the sary resolution voting grants of £105 and strongest societies in the Isle of Man—for £170 are not drafted yet, and it will take a there is no trade that is doing so well at little time to draft them and have them present as agriculture, and the agricultural signed by the members of the Court. Still, community can well afford to keep their if the Court is prepared to wait a quarter- Society going—while the Agricultural of-an-hour or twenty minutes, we could get Society was helping itself; and I then be- the whole thing through. lieved, as I remarked last year, that this Mr Cormode: The House of Keys will Court was doing wisely in playing the part have some business to do in the interval, 1 of Providence towards them, and helping take it. those that helped themselves. But I have Mr Cowell: In moving this resolution, I consistently opposed, and 1 intend to op-

Horse and Bull Premiums. TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. 83 pose, this vote, now that the Agricultural culture and Rural Industries Bill, which, I Society have refused to contribute anything suppose, will be law by this time next year whatever, and have asked this Court to find the Board created by that Bill will have the whole of -the. money. The Receiver- this whole matter in its hands—there is no Geneml, when this full grant was first pro- use in spending time over this vote to-day. posed, three years ago, said, in effect, "The We have voted the money for many years Agricultural Society are in a very awkward now, and we may as well go through with position this year, and I think we might it to the end. let them off this year, and then revert to The Receiver-General: I think that this the old system." The hon. member for vote should be accepted. As the hon. mem- Peel very wisely pointed out to the ber for Peel has said, this is the last year Receiver-General that that was not in the that the money will be asked for, because, nature of the agricultural mind ; if they under the Agriculture Bill, it is part of the once got their font in, like the camel, they agreement that this sum shall be part of would keep it there, and try to get it fur- the vote that is to he paid over to the Board ther. I don't feel justified in. volin.rg th s. of Agriculture out of the rate levied. When grant whi:e the A g..r eirlitura I Society is doing that Bill, which was passed by us on the nothing whatever to supplement the grants 12th Jane last, becomes law—and it really that are made. I believe these premiums seems an unconscionable time for a Bill to have been an excellent thing for agricul- be awaiting the Royal approval, and I think ture, and for the Island generally, but f. your Excellency might urge the matter think that the agricultural community along, because the money for advertising should support their own cause. is in the same position—I see that members The Clerk of the Rolls: Don't the Society are smiling at my raising this question- now give pnzes for classes in addition to (laughter)—when that Bill comes into those that they 'had while they were paying effect, we shall not have this vote before us a proportion of these premiums? I expect again, and we may as well to-day agree to that, as a class, the farmers subscribe as the vote which we so often have -voted and much as ever they did, and that they give agreed upon. prizes for extra sections, so that the same Mr 3. Qualtrough: Are we sure that this amount is given by the farmers as before. is the last. time? I don't actually know, but 1 think it must work out that way. Mr Quine : Last year was the last time. Mr Cormode: This. 'has nothing whatever The Governor : I understand there is an to do with the summer show. alteration in the conditions governing the premiums, that the bulls should be not mole The Clerk of the Bolls: But it is the one than three years and two months old, in- subscription list. The Spring Show and the stead of three years old. The object is to Summer Show ale found out of the same include bulls calved in the early part of the fund. I think the subscription list will be year. The object in breeding almost any found to he as large during the last twelve kind of animals is to get calving done as months as before, even though the money early in the year as possible, and the is not devoted to these specific horse and present rule shuts out a large number of hull premium classes. bulls calved in the months of January and Mr Cormode: That may be so, but the February. I anticipate that the Court will argument of the hon. member for Ramsey agree to that alteration. is pen featly sound, and the reply of the Mr Cowell: If that matter is likely to in- Clerk of the Rolls is no reply whatever. terfere with the Court granting the The Society come before the Court and say, premium, I think the Society would waive "These premiums are going to be a splendid it for this year. thing for agriculture," and the Court says, very properly, "Show your faith in the pro- The Clerk of the Rolls: Certain recom- posal by making contributions towards it." mendations were made by a committee, of We know that the agricultural industry is which I was a member, and were adopted by far the wealthiest industry in the Island, by the Court, and I am not sure that they and I can only regard it as shabbiness on could be altered without coming to the their part that they come to this Court and Court for sanction. ask us for the whole of the money. Still, The Governor: I don't think the ages of seeing that this is probably the last occasion the bulls were laid- down, but only the ages on which the Court will be called upon to of the stallions.. vote this grant—because, under the Agri- Mr Cormode: Anyhow, there is no hurry

Horse and Bull Premiums. 84 TYNWALD COURT, JANUARY 26, 1915. with' regaird to that question. If we adopt pass without alluding to the fact that the the vote now, we can take up that question Court and the Island have lost a very valu- later. able and very old servant, in the person of The Clerk of the Rolls: In any case, it is Mr Aitken. It sounds rather curious to a detail which the Court would not q'uar'rel say this, considering that Mr Aitken is here about. It is only a question of keeping the this afternoon; but he resigned his appoint- thing in order. ment as from the 31st of December last, and, with. 'his usual devotion to duty, he is The motion was carried, Mr Crennell now serving voluntarily during the time we voting "No." Later on 'the resolution, are being hard worked because of the war, formally drafted, was brought into the in order to give help to the Government Chamber and was signed by the members. Office. It is more than 48 years ago that Mr Aitken entered the Government Office, EXPENSES OF REVISING VOTERS' and over that very long period he has LISTS. served with the greatest possible zeal and The Clerk of the Rolls: Then there is the fidelity. . I am sure the Court would not matter of the expenses of revising the lists like so old and so zealous a public servant of voters for which a Committee was ap- to leave its service without expressing its pointed this morning. I now submit the thanks to him. I hope and trust that he Committee's report that the items have may long live to enjoy his extremely well- been gone through by Mr Aitken, and the merited pension, and I know we can always total amounts to £200 is 3d, The charges look to him for any assistance at any time are all on a scale, a shilling per sixteen we need it. (Hear, hear). lines allowed to the persons who make out The Clerk of the Rolls: I should like to the lists, and the revising advocates' fees, associate myself, and the members of the at so much per day, and then there is the Coutmil with the words which have just cost of advertising, and there is lOs for fallen from your Excellency. I have known timber for the platform on Douglas Court Mr Aitken in connection with the Govern- House, which is now a permanent one, and ment Office for at least 43 years, and we all there is an item of 14s lad, the cost of know that he has been the friend of every- making a glass case, which members no one who has sought advice. On many doubt have seen, placed inside the door of occasions he has been responsible for the Douglas Court House for receiving the lists working of Government Office, during the of rotors. Instead of the names of voters absence, and latterly the illness, of Mr being printed on large sheets, extending Story. TIe has been a most valuable and eight or ten or twelve feet in length, which excellent public servant, and we all hope, I is almost impossible to read, they ale now am sure, that he will be long spared to printed and enclosed in a small glass case receive that pension which he has deserved placed at the door, to which every person at the hands of his country. We very much can have access. 1 think this money is appreciate all he has done for us. well expended, and the whole account calls. The Speaker: May I, on behalf of this for no further comment. r move the ac- Chamber, endorse what has been said by counts be passed. your Excellency and by the Clerk of the The Speaker seconded, and it was agreed Rolls. I am sure that to every one of us to. who has desired Mr Aitken's assistance, he has been most affable and ready to give THE RJ PIREME'NT OF MR J. H. all information possible. We feel that he AITKEN. has earned 'his retirement, and we hope he The Governor: I think this is the first may be long spared to enjoy' is pension and occasion on whin the Court has met this his leisure. year, and I hardly like :to let the occasion The Court then rose.

Expenses of Revising Voters' List.—The Retirement of Mr 3'. H. Aitken.