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SENATE Official Hansard COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SENATE Official Hansard THURSDAY, 27 NOVEMBER 1997 THIRTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—FIFTH PERIOD BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE CANBERRA CONTENTS THURSDAY, 27 NOVEMBER Order of Business— Days and Hours of Sitting and Routine of Business ............. 9595 Leave of Absence ..................................... 9595 Native Title Amendment Bill 1997— Second Reading ...................................... 9595 Questions Without Notice— Native Title ......................................... 9644 Aboriginal Reconciliation ............................... 9646 Native Title ......................................... 9647 Arts Policy ......................................... 9648 Native Title ......................................... 9650 Native Title ......................................... 9652 Native Title ......................................... 9653 Greenhouse Gases .................................... 9653 Native Title ......................................... 9655 Mr Robert ‘Dolly’ Dunn ................................ 9656 Answers to Questions Without Notice— Taxation ........................................... 9657 Small Business ....................................... 9658 Fringe Benefits Tax ................................... 9658 Commonwealth Bank of Australia ......................... 9659 Current Account Data .................................. 9660 Travel Allowances .................................... 9660 Native Title ......................................... 9661 Petitions— Logging and Woodchipping .............................. 9667 Food Labelling ....................................... 9667 Uranium ........................................... 9667 Logging and Woodchipping .............................. 9667 Native Title ......................................... 9668 Native Title ......................................... 9668 Dr James Tankey ..................................... 9668 Notices of Motion— Afghanistan: Taliban ................................... 9669 Senator Alan Ferguson ................................. 9669 Northern Territory Legislation ............................ 9669 Regulations and Ordinances Committee ..................... 9670 Asbestos-related Diseases ............................... 9671 Superannuation Committee .............................. 9671 Regulations and Ordinances Committee ..................... 9671 National General Assembly of Local Government .............. 9672 Disabled People: New South Wales ........................ 9673 Order of Business— Leave of Absence ..................................... 9673 Finance and Public Administration References Committee ........ 9673 Genetic Manipulation Committee .......................... 9673 Ms Jane Elliott ....................................... 9673 Housing ........................................... 9673 AIDS Awareness Week ................................. 9673 Committees— Community Affairs References Committee—Extension of Time .... 9674 Migration: Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia ...................... 9674 Oakajee Port and Industrial Estate ........................... 9674 Senate: Prayers ........................................ 9675 Banking ............................................. 9675 Greenhouse Gases ...................................... 9675 Documents— Department of the Senate: Register of Senior Executive Officers’ CONTENTS—continued Interests .......................................... 9675 Auditor-General’s Reports—Report No. 15 of 1997-98 ........... 9675 Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation ....................... 9675 Committees— Senators’ Interests Committee—Register ..................... 9676 Regulations and Ordinances Committee—Statement ............. 9676 Regulations and Ordinances Committee—Paper ................ 9679 Publications Committee—Reports ......................... 9685 Public Works Committee—Reports ........................ 9685 Electoral Matters Committee—Membership ................... 9687 Judiciary Amendment Bill 1997— Copyright Amendment Bill (No. 2) 1997— Civil Aviation Legislation Amendment Bill 1997— First Reading ........................................ 9687 Second Reading ...................................... 9687 Bills Returned from The House of Representatives ............... 9693 Superannuation Contributions and Termination Payments Taxes Legislation Amendment Bill 1997— Consideration of House of Representatives Message ............. 9693 Assent to Laws ........................................ 9693 Native Title Amendment Bill 1997— Second Reading ...................................... 9693 Adjournment— Child Immunisation ................................... 9757 Cyber Democracy ..................................... 9758 Documents— Tabling ............................................ 9760 Tabling ............................................ 9760 SENATE 9595 Thursday, 27 November 1997 That leave of absence be granted to Senator Colston for the remainder of the 1997 sittings, on account of ill health. The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. NATIVE TITLE AMENDMENT Margaret Reid) took the chair at 9.30 a.m., BILL 1997 and read prayers. Second Reading ORDER OF BUSINESS Debate resumed from 25 November, on Days and Hours of Sitting and Routine of motion by Senator Herron: Business That this bill be now read a second time. Motion (by Senator Ian Campbell) agreed Senator COONEY (Victoria) (9.32 a.m.)— to: There has been discussion in the last few days (1) That on Thursday, 27 November 1997: about the threat that native title might make (a) the hours of meeting shall be 9.30 am to to freehold tenure of land. Madam President, 6.30 pm, 7.30 pm to 11.10 pm; being an excellent lawyer yourself, as I (b) the routine of business shall be: understand—almost as good as my wife, Lillian Cooney, who has given me much (i) From 9.30 am till 12.45 pm, govern- ment business order of the day relat- instruction in this area—you would know that ing to the Native Title Amendment freehold land does not mean ownership of the Bill 1997 land in the sense of a complete right over the (ii) From 12.45 pm till 2 pm, govern- land. If you have a freehold piece of property ment business order of the day relat- all sorts of other people have rights over that, ing to the Native Title Amendment whether they are tenants, next door neigh- Bill 1997, second reading bours or, indeed, the government as a (iii) At 2 pm, questions whole—for example, you cannot grow opium (iv) Motions to take note of answers poppies on your land. There are all sorts of (v) Petitions relationships between the land that you own and other people. The very fundamental basis (vi) Notices of the English law in so far as it relates to the (vii) Postponement and rearrangement of ownership of land is that it is a system of business tenure, that is, a system whereby people have (viii) Formal motions rights in respect of a piece of land which (ix) Presentation of documents others do not have or have rights in respect of (x) Government business order of the a piece of land over which others may have day relating to the Native Title the same sorts of rights. The typical example Amendment Bill 1997; and given is that of the relationship between (c) At 10.30 pm, adjournment to be pro- landlord and tenant, but there are others as posed. well. (2) That the Senate shall meet on Friday, 28 I have copies of documents here which November 1997 and that: relate to land law and the ownership of land (a) the hours of meeting shall be 9.30 am to in Victoria—I will not read the names out; 4.25 pm; that would not be right. One letter is headed (b) the routine of business shall be the ‘Heritage of Victoria’ and it reads: government business order of the day relating to the Native Title Amendment Attached is my determination for the proposed Bill 1997; works to a former building. I have decided to refuse the issue of a permit for the proposed works. (c) the question for the adjournment of the Senate shall be proposed at 3.45 pm. Heritage of Victoria is refusing a person who has the ownership of land a permit to carry Leave of Absence out the sort of work he wants. There is the Motion (by Senator Harradine)—by Town and Planning Country Act. Here I have leave—agreed to: a planning permit from a particular council 9596 SENATE Thursday, 27 November 1997 which is allowing the development of dwell- The laws of a conquered country continue in force ings but subject to a series of conditions until they are altered by the conqueror. which go on for page after page. These are All the High Court has been saying in Mabo just illustrations of the fact that tenure of land and in Wik is that—that we inherited the law is uncertain by nature. It is true that we want from English institutions which have come to to make it as certain as possible but no-one us from England. can, under our system of law, have a situation When Lieutenant Cook, as I remember he where their possession of land is absolutely was when he took over Australia— certain. Senator Ferguson—I hope you don’t When people talk about there being uncer- remember him, Barney. tainty in the ownership of land—as have Senator COONEY—You would remember, those opposite—they are talking about some- Senator Ferguson, that at six o’clock in the thing that has not been created by native title. evening of Wednesday, 22 August 1770 It has been created by the English legal Lieutenant Cook landed on Australian soil system which we have adopted—and a very and took possession of it in His Majesty’s good system it
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