Interview with Dr. Mac Miller. August 17, 2017 at His Home. the Historic the A
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Interview with Dr. Mac Miller. August 17, 2017 at his home. The historic The A. P. Dickman House 120 Dickman Drive S. W. Ruskin, Fl 3357. Interview conducted by Charles Nelson on behalf of the South Hillsborough County History Project (HCC South Shore Campus) Interview Notes: This interview with Dr. Miller involved three distinct parts: • Discussion on source material for developing the history of Apollo Beach. • Conversation with his friend, Bill Burger, professional archeologist and paleontologist, who has partnered with Dr. Miller on various projects in the past. This main part of the discussion concentrated on the pre-historical aspects of the Apollo Beach area • A discussion on the DeSoto Trail and the need for someone to take on a project to correct the historical record through the DeSoto Trail. Source Material for Investigation into the history of Apollo Beach • Talk with the principal Realtor at Century 21 in Apollo Beach: Dr. Miller could not recall his name but said he is part of the Corr Family. He reports that he will be eager to talk about his family and his father, Francis J. Corr. Dr. Miller believes he will be very articulate of the first 3 sections developed. • I did show Dr. Miller, the sub-division plans for those first three areas. [Research note: confirm these plans with the Corr family.] • For a relatively official overview on the history of Apollo Beach, investigate Hillsborough County documents, particularly the “Survey of the Built Environment of Hillsborough County”, Available electronically at HHC South Shore. (If HCC doesn’t have it Dr. Miller reports that he does.) There are two editions, one color and one black/white. You will want to review both as there are some differences between the two documents. • A cursory online search will pull up county histories. Some have been excised. • Check with Dr. Craig Hardesty at HCC concerning the Jules Verne’s science fiction novel coordinates for the “moon launch” noted in his novel, “From Earth to the Moon” which gives the longitude and latitude of moon projection. Dr. Craig has a conversion table for the location since the base has changed from Washington DC. New launch point is nowhere near Apollo Beach anymore. Although historians have tried to place it here. • Research the Land Deed Book for South County at HCC South County. It’s a printed document. That will include land records from the early period ending of the Spanish fishing settlements. Should include Apollo Beach. • Read: Jerald Milanich’s book: Hernando Desoto and the Indians of Florida. Most recent book of any real scholarship. (Dr. Miller is cited on page 69. • Read: Dr. Miller’s unpublished manuscript: “John Ruskin’s American Utopian.” Available at HCC. He cites this as a written history of Ruskin. His manuscript, which is electronically available in PDF form. • Read: Carrie Kastner’s good, inclusive study: “Utopia on the Half Shell.” She deals with land use, exploitation, turpentine and farming, inclusive of Apollo Beach. (Note: Dr. Miller offered to send me PDF’s, of his manuscript – which has not been updated since 1980, and of Kastner’s book, if they cannot be located at HCC.) • The early documentation of Ruskin as an intentional community is available electronically from archives at Hamilton College in New York. There you will find digitized records of the early Commongood Society minutes until 1967, when it dissolved itself. Also available is a transcription of the 20th Century Woman’s Club minutes, a forerunner of today’s Woman’s club. Financial records. The original documents are in the Woman’s Club archives in Ruskin. • There are several well-done newspaper articles. Check History Press for these citations. Cited in History Press has these citations. Should be available at HCC • Read: “Florida Utopian Communities”. Should also be at HCC. Good general reading. Somewhat imprecise, but it does give the history of intentional Utopian communities in Florida • Dr. Millers did say that there are other audio visual presentations (for example, a PowerPoint Presentation) that he can provide. Q: I’ve seen references to North Ruskin. Can you provide any information on where that might have been? A: “It’s not a community. It was just a place north of downtown Ruskin. I know what that is. Is that the train Station? No, I don’t think so. Ruskin was not incorporated. That we can find. The city of Ruskin did sign a legally binding agreement with Sun City Telephone and Electric company. There may have been some legal entity enabling this. But we’ve never found one. Wimauma was incorporated, but not Ruskin as far as we know. Q: How did Miller Mac Road come to be known by your name? A: “When my father came back to Florida. My father went into business in effect with his cousin. Pauline [Dickman] Lawler was a twin sister [to Paul B. Dickman]. They named the road. For a joke, they turned it around. Enters Bill Burger, [biographical information supplied, post interview: Burger is a well-known local archeologist and former archeologist for Sarasota County. Burger, received his undergraduate degree from New College and his Master’s from USF. Please see this short 9:00 video on his work in SW Florida: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJDMffRf7us. ) Q: I was just talking to Mac about Miller Mac Road. I think it used to be called Clay Gulley Road. When did they change the name? A: “I would imagine in the mid 50’s.” CN. That makes sense. From a 1938 Hillsborough County Subdivision Plat book (Book 27. Page 100) the Ruskin Tomato Farms are shown. On that map, what was to become Miller Mac Road, is labeled as Clay Gulley Road. Dr. Miller was unaware of that name, so could offer nothing further. Discussion with Bill Burger (BB) and Dr. Mac Miller (MM) concerning the pre-history of the Apollo Beach/Ruskin area. Interviewer questions and comments labeled as (CN) (BB): I’m a professional archeologist. I mostly grew in Bishop Harbor in just south of Port Manatee. I’m also an archeological consultant. My father and oldest brother did a lot of work on property and uncovered a lot of fossils, and I have an interest in paleontology as well. (CN) Did you do any work on the Leisey Shell Pit? (BB) No. That’s more paleontology where I have more of an interest/hobby. I’ve met Frank Garcia once at a fossil fair. (CN) I’ve done such limited work on the Uzita and the Mocoso. What can you tell me about those groups? (BB) A main point to keep in mind comes from what you mentioned. Those names come from the Spanish accounts period. Keep in mind that the Spanish came in with their own cultural systems. They found natives and immediately assumed the same social stratification systems as they had in Spain. They asked questions like “Who’s the chief here?” Which was not the [hierarchical, social construct] system here. Rather, for natives, it was more like: “This guys’ good at hunting, so he’s the ‘chief’ today. Tomorrow we are going to go fishing, and you are the best fisherman, so you are the ‘chief’ on that day. Remember, too, that the languages being used to get these names were mutually unintelligible languages. (That’s languages –plural --as there were many native languages in the Tampa Bay region. So these names that have come to us from the Spanish Chronicles. You can almost see the chronicler saying “What did he say?” and then writing down what he thought he heard as a name which may or may not have anything to do with the question. This results in various spellings, phonetic sand otherwise, to these names. But the main point that I always like to get across is that you cannot legitimately project those names into pre-history. Let me give you an example. It’s like: “Here’s a guy named Miller who lives in a house built in 1910. Because of that, people must have been living here 1000 years ago?” No one would ever think of drawing that conclusion, but people regularly make that assumption with the few names that we have for the natives. IN terms of main groups: the Calusa were to the south [of Tampa Bay]. The Timucua to the north. We know from the historical accounts that Tampa Bay was kind of a DMZ between the two. Control went back and forth between the two groups. Apparently, the Timucua of North Florida were in control of this region at the time of the Spanish encounters. Later, the Calusa held sway. But the people that lived here were neither Calusa or Timucua. We have a few names for them in the Spanish account, but not much else. You know the story of Juan Ortiz. He was on the coast with the ‘Uzita’ or the ‘Hurrihigua’, or whatever names you want to call them, and he escapes to ‘Mocoso’, which some believe were encamped at the Alafia River. But we do know that the Moscoso spoke a different language than the Uzita in just that short distance. It’s important to note that we have different peoples here in this area. As far as the beginning of things, we are looking at 14,000 years ago from finds up in the Florida Panhandle, around the Aucilla River. Here in SW Florida, it seems findings are not quite as old. But because of sea levels have risen, there is no telling what is under the water in Tampa Bay and beyond the adjacent Continental Shelf.