HIGHWAY US^R(National Highway Users Conference) •^e'Dtember I1

Director of Public Roads Frank Turner answers some questions about roadside hazards—and explains some of the problems that confront highway officials

4We Have to Look at Both Sides'

by Phyllis Dee Lovoca Associate Editor, HIGHWAY USER

RANCIS C. TURNER, director of official," he answered. "In the high­ USER interview. Public Roads, came up through the way field, we have added socio-eco­ "Oh yes," he assured us. "I've read Fchairs. He has been in the Bureau of nomic and other considerations to the that, of course." Public Roads for 38 years—ever since engineering approach that we had 15 The conversation continued as fol­ his graduation as a civil engineer from years or so ago. Yes. I think it is a lows: Texas A and M. difficult time." Mr. Turner, what was your reaction He is a gentle appearing, quiet Critical? The August issue of HIGH­ to the interview with Representative spoken public servant. But the Fed­ WAY USER carried an interview with Blatnik? eral Government juggernaut has by no Rep. John A. Blatnik (D., Minn.) on Well, first off, highway officials are means quelled Frank Turner's ability hearings of the House Special Sub­ for safety as much as the Congressman to hold or express strong, individual committee on the Federal Aid High­ is. Maybe more, if that is possible. opinions. He does not speak the way Program, of which the Congress­ It is a fundamental consideration in guarded gobbledegook of many civil man is chairman. In particular, the everything we do. Here at BPR, we servants, even those at the highest interview dealt with so-called roadside think we pioneered in highway safety. levels. He talks freely. He sounds hazards—bridge piers too close to the Our designs and construction methods like a man who is his own man. He road, sign mountings that could de­ are all aimed at increasing the safety obviously feels himself part of a fra­ molish cars out of control, guard rails of the highways for the user. This is ternity of highway officials and is which either fail to guard or seem to so elemental with us we have not sep­ proud of the brotherhood. constitute still another obstacle. Parts arated safety out of the highway pro­ We asked him if he thought this an of the interview could be construed as gram as a single item. It is threaded unusually difficult time to be in the critical of some highway officials. through everything and has been from high office he occupies or, indeed, to We wanted Mr. Turner's comments the beginning of the present program be a highway official at any level. on the roadside hazard situation and and before. Sight distances, widths of "It might be one of the most diffi­ on the Blatnik hearings, in particular. lanes, clearances, ratio of curvature, cult times to be any kind of a public We asked if he had read the HIGHWAY shoulders—all these are elements of

Page 18 Highway User / September, 1967 Vacation Notes TF AST MONTH WE TOOK A VACATION MOTOR TRIP TO CENTRAL HEW YORK •U-D STATE, THE ROUTE WE CHOSE FROM ALEXANDRIA, VA., WAS THROUGH MARYLAND, DELAWARE, NEW JERSEY AND NEW YOTK. TOEFIRST TW O SEG­ MENTS—THE CAPITAL BELTWAY AND THE WASHINGTON-BALTIMORE PARK­ WAY—WERE TOLL-FREE; BUT THEN THE TOLLS BEGAN, AS FOLLOWS: BALTIMORE TUNNEL, 50 CENTS: KENNEDY HIGHWAY (THROUGH MARYLAND AND DELA­ WARE), $135; DELAWARE RIVER BRIDGE, 50 CENTS; NEW JERSEY TURN- I PIKE $1; GARDEN STATE PARKWAY, $1 J NEW YORK THRUWAY $2.75. THE TOTAL WAS $7.10—AND THAT WAS ONE WAY. . . . WHILE IN NEW YORK WE Safety Stripes VISITED LAKE GEORGE, LAKE PLACID AND OTHER AREAS IN THE ADIRONDACK, Promotion of the use of a red and AND ARE HAPPY TO REPORT THAT THE SCENERY IS AS BREATHTAKINGLY BEAUTIFUL white striped base for arteiial stop AS EVER. BUSINESS WAS BOOMING AT LAKE GEORGE, BUT RESORT AND MOTEL signs is a project of the Idaho- ] OPERATORS AT LAKE PLACID COMPLAIN THAT THEIR BUSINESS HAS BEEN HURT Montana-Utah Council of the United I THIS YEAR BY MONTREAL'S EXPO *67. VACATIONERS HEADING FOR EXPO Commercial Travelers. Designed by DRIVE STRAIGHT UP NEW YORK'S NORTHWAY, BYPASSING LAKE PLACID, SOME C, E. Fritz, of Billings, Mont., it has been used experimentally in two 30 MILES TO THE WEST AND HERE IS ONE VOTE FOR IHE NORTHWAY AS A cities at intersections where trees, SPLENDID HIGHWAY, BOTH FROM THE ENGINEERING AND SCENIC STANDPOINTS. shading and poor background have IT'S TOLL-FREE, TOO. . . . SOMETHING WE WOULD RECOMMEND AS DEFINITELY reduced the visibility of the conven­ tional stop sign installations, A be­ WORTHWHILE FOR ANYONE TRAVELING IN THAT AREA IS A TOUR OF HISTORIC fore and after survey of the number FORT TICONDEROGA, NOW ALMOST COMPLETELY RESTORED. THE MASSIVE of drivers failing to stop has shown STONE FORTRESS WAS OCCUPIED AT VARIOUS TIMES BY THE FRENCH, THE a remarkable reduction at intersec­ BRITISH, THE AMERICANS, AND THE BRITISH AGAIN. THERE ARE FASCI­ tions where the striped base has been NATING EXHIBITS DEPICTING EACH ERA, INCLUDING, OF COURSE, MUCH INDIAN installed, according to sponsors, who LORE. . . . AND FOR SMALL CHILDREN, A VISIT TO NORTH POLE, N. Y., AT also state that its use has cut the number of accidents at intersections THE FOOT OF WHITEFACE MOUNTAIN, IS A MUST. HERE, IN AN INTRIGUING so marked. VILLAGE DEDICATED TO MAKE-BELIEVE, LIVE SANTA CLAUS AND HIS HELPERS IN PEPPERMINT-STRIPED BUILDINGS, ALONG WITH THE REINDEER AND OTHER ANIMALS. ADULTS WILL FIND IT INTERESTING, TOO. . . . traction and penetration characteristics of soft soils were studied in lab tests T5T in which weighted tires were driven ANOTHER OF OUR FAVORITE SPOTS, IN CENTRAL NEW YORK, IS COOPERS- by means of a test rig through a 75 TOWN, HOME OF THE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME, PLUSFIVE OTHE R MUSEUMS, foot long bin of mud. ALL WORTH VISTING. LOCATED ON THE SHORES OF NINE MILE-LONG OTSEGO Prom their measurements of soft LAKE, IT WAS THE SETTING FOR JAMES FENNIMORE COOPER'S LEATHERSTOCK- soil 'and other surface obstacles the ING TALES, AND IT IS A PERFECT GEM OF A VILLAGE.... AT OUR HOMETOWN OF scientists devised a statistical sampling LITTLE FALLS, FOR THE FIRST TIME WE WENT "PROSPECTING" FOR "LITTLE FALLS of the earth's terrain which was in­ DIAMONDS," IN REALITY FORMS OF QUARTZ CRYSTALS WHICH STRONGLY RESEM­ corporated in the computerized equa­ BLE THE REAL THING. THIS INVOLVES USING A HAMMER, CHISEL, PICK-AX tions. AND SLEDGE HAMMER—AND BANGING AWAY AT ROCKS. IF YOU ARE LUCKY Van Deusen said the mobility YOU WILL CHIP AWAY IN THE RIGHT PLACE ANDFIND A LODE. WE WERE FOR­ studies identify six major areas of TUNATE AND DUG OUT AN EVEN DOZEN OF THE "DIAMONDS." . . . interest: soft soil mechanics, vehicle ^ dynamics, obstacle crossing capabili­ hi r~i tr+ ty, obstacle avoidance, environmental \ HAVE YOU TRIED ONE OF THE DO-IT-YOURSELF CAR WASH MACHINES factor classification and amphibious J YET? WE FIND THEY WORK QUITE WELL—AND NOW MOST OF THEM HAVE operation. I VACUUM HOSES SO THAT YOU CAN CLEAN THE INTERIOR OF YOUR CAR, AS In addition, the computer study J WELL. . .. QUICK NOW, HOW MANY LIGHT BULBS ARE THERE IN THE AVERAGE provides engineers with information 1967 MODEL AUTOMOBILE? WOULD YOU BELIEVE 34? WELL, THAT IS THE on vehicle induced human respones I ANSWER, AND IT IS AN ALL TIME HIGH—TWO BULBS MORE THAN WERE IN related to driver fatigue and efficiency. THE 1966 MODELS. . . . MONSANTO'S TEXTILES DIVISION SUGGESTS THIS The Chrysler scientist believes his I METHOD OF DETERMINING WHETHER YOUR TIRE TREAD HAS BEEN WORN TO mathematical investigations into vehi­ ! THE MINIMUM DEPTH OF 1/16 OF AN INCH: INSERT THE HEAD OF A BOOK cle mobility will reduce the lead time MATCH INTO THE MIDDLE GROOVE OF YOUR TIRES; IF YOU CAN SEE HALF OF required for the development of spe­ THE HEAD, IT'S TIME TO BUY A NEW TIRE. . . . PLASTIC SHRUBS SHOULD BE cialized vehicles for the military. • PLACED ALONG THE NATION'S HIGHWAYS, A CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY COMMIS­ "People are constantly thinking of SIONER BELIEVES. HE SAYS THAT THEY WOULDN'T REQUIRE WATERING, AS new ideas in military vehicle mobility. DO THE REAL VARIETY SEATTLE POLICE ENCASE PARKING TICKETS IN PLASTIC Now we can analytically evaluate new- ENVELOPES—SO THAT MOTORISTS CAN'T ARGUE IN TRAFFIC COURT THAT THEY concepts long before they reach the COULDN'T READ THE SUMMONS BECAUSE IT WAS RAIN SOAKED.... ^ hardware stage," he said.

Highway User / September, 1967 Page 17 the safety of the highway. Are these standards being improved On roadside hazards—take the ex­ Ua the time? Yes. We have research going con­ ample of a massive sign that could be stantly on these and other elements of hit by a car out of control. highway design. All of the design peo­ We have to look at both sides of ple in BPR and the State highway this. The sign was put there to convey departments are constantly trying to a message to the motorist so that he think of better ways to do things. Sev­ can operate safely. We know that, in eral AASHO committees are on this order to convey that message, the sign job all the time. They and we are must be large enough so that it can always trying to improve the policies be read. What is more, it must be read and practices of the whole highway far enough away so that the motorist engineering profession. will have time to digest the message and act in accordance with it without You stated ni your testimony before getting confused. The sign must be the Blarnik Committee that correction designed to withstand a wind load of of roadside hazards would cost a great 80 to 100 miles an hour. This means deal of money. What is your estimate a large mounting post. This, in turn, of the amount that would be involved? I said a billion dollars or more. requires a heavy foundation. Then However, I noticed that members of there is the guard rail. "If the critic would inform himself the press did not pick this up in proper The guard rail was not put there to as to what we are trying to do, he context. They reported that I said it protect the sign. We certainly are not would take a very different tack. We would cost this much to correct "mis­ more concerned with the sign than are so conscious of these things that takes." Actually, I based the figure on with the motorist who might run off it hurts." the inventory for the spot improve­ the road. The guard rail was put there ment program on the ABC system. on the theory that it will help protect "Mistakes" is not what I said or meant. the motorist. If he is going to run Rather, I had in mind correcting defi­ No. The fact that some of these off the road, he is better off hitting a ciencies on the basis of the spot im­ guard rail than the concrete mounting. hazards are subject to correction is provement program. clear indication that we have not been Now we have a decision to make. as aware as we should have been. For example, a narrow bridge put in What is more important to the greater 40 years ago was completely adequate safety of the most people? A massive We have not been perfect. We could for the time. Today, its lack of width sign that can be read? Or avoiding have and we should have done a better is a deficiency, and should be cor­ placement of an obstacle where, if job. We will try to correct the faults rected. But it was not a "mistake" 40 someone should run off the road at that were brought out before the com­ years ago. just that point, he might hit the guard mittee as quickly as possible. I was thinking of this billion dollars rail or even go through to the concrete But we knew these things about as the figure necessary to "patch the mounting? roof" until we can replace the house— ourselves. We had been discussing We concluded that a good sign mes­ which, over a period of years may cost them—working on them before the two or three hundred billion dollars. sage is probably the more important. hearings. And, you know, the Bureau These are not things we overlook. of Public Roads furnished the com­ If the money were made available' They are decisions we have to make. mittee with the ammunition it used. woultomorrowd tak,e how ot lon eliminatg edo th yoeu kin dthink of it generalroadsidDo?e yo hazardu sfeel wil thalt b etheapprove Whehelpfu hearingnsl s nthiState eon Burea highwa uy of plansPublihazardnikc,s ha sRoadar oet referreds whic ?h Congressman Blat- No doubt about it. The hearings roadside features such as Wguardrailse could d,o it in one year to 18 will create a further awareness and an distance of abutments mfro month thes withou roadt difficulty . opportunity for corrective action—not and so on taken into accountTo a larg?e extent , we are trying to only on the part of the highway people Definitely, yes. do this anyway. Most of what was but on the part of the public, as well. discussed was on the Interstate. We The public must be willing to pay for Has BPR set up standardare makinsg a nwit inventorh yre wit­h cost esti­ this corrective action, you know. gard ot this whole subjectmate?s of the kinds of things shown in Standards are not set up within the the pictures at the hearings. We plan, You testified before theBurea Blarniu ask such. We take the stand­ as soon as the inventory is completed, Committee. Do you feeardls tha that arte develope thed by committees to utilize funds now available for a committee members were sympathetiof the Americacn Association of State corrective program and do that in ot the problems of highway officials? about a year. On the ABC system, we Highway Officials. I think that the committee is quite expect to ckx-it in about four years knowledgeable and sympathetic. The We try to operate this way as much time. committee's problems and highway as we can. We think this is a far officials' problems actually are the better way than telling the States what The thought is ot use Highway Trust same. It is a good committee. Fund money for this? they have to do. This kind of opera­ Yes. We would add it on to future Do you feel that highwationy is the officialsbasis of, the term—"a part­ cost estimates for the highway pro­ for the most part, havener beerelationship.n as" It muccertainlhy make s gram. We would defer new construc­ aware as they should bfoer a bette ofr workinroadsidge relationshi p with tion and substitute this corrective work hazards? the States. now. Highway User / September, 1967 Page 19 Do you feel that some of the road­ In varying degrees. All of them are eliminate that factor, we could bring side hazards now in existence are due, in complete agreement and are sym­ the rate way down. But since that is at least in part, to the fact that the pathetic with the suggestions in the impossible, we must concentrate on emphasis on "the second collision" "Yellow Book." The only point of minimizing the result. And having and the "second chance*' is relatively disagreement relates to the matter of gotten the rate down to 2M> per cent, new? costs. All highway departments are then we have to concentrate on elimi­ We have been thinking about this faced with needs that exceed their nating getting it still lower. capabilities to fund. So they are faced all the time. Still you see why we have been in­ with choices every day. The choices The "second collision" is a term tent on building the Interstate. You which our new sister agency, the Na­ are between what can be done and what must be set aside. take money away from that program tional Highway Safety Bureau, has and use it for some other things and coined or at least brought to public When we first issued the "Yellow you are dealing with the small part of notice recently. Bui. everyone who Book" there were some misunder­ the problem. has been working in safety has been standings about it. Some people Do you feel, as does Congressman concerned about this all along. Crash thought it was intended as a book of Blatnik, that part of the difficulty in helmets and seat belts, for example, directives. Actually, it is a report of are old stuff. the recommendations made by a spe­ building highways without these ob­ stacles is owing to a lack of commu­ Dr. Haddon's Bureau is concerned cial committee appointed by AASHO with the vehicle so he is attempting to study things that have an effect on nications within highway departments to do something to pad the vehicle and safety. Where possible and to the ex­ themselves? minimize the second collision. tent practical—and as soon as possible That is a pretty good characteriza­ By highway design, we are trying and practical—we hope these recom­ tion of it. to eliminate the first collision. Still, mendations will be followed in all the It is largely a case of these things if a vehicle does run off the road, we States. I think this is understood now. being considered in relation to the hope to assure the motorist a "second total decision. And most highway peo­ chance" by eliminating obstacles he ple have concentrated on the largest might hit. We are going to try harder part of the problem. There has been on that. "I iMmk Sliere a "communications gap" in that sense. There has been some criticism by is a lack of ap- We are attempting to take care of some representatives of the press to TprcciaaiuMi of wIhtat that now. We are scheduling a num­ the effect that highway officials are Jbigliway pc©p3e ber of meetings of our people here unwilling to give new ideas and new aire doimg and at BPR, as are several of the State inventors an opportunity? Do you tryamg to do. highway departments, to give the same think this criticism is valid? They make some things that were presented to the Blat­ errors like every­ I think that is so much poppycock. nik Committee. Michigan has already body else. set up a date with Mr. May, the com­ It indicates a lack of thorough ac­ ttlneire arc a Hoi ©f quaintanceship with the subject. If factors wilEi mittee's chief counsel, to present to the critic would inform himself as wSnicHi Dlhey mmstt 400 or 500 highway folks and others to what we are trying to do, he would treat!." interested the series of pictures shown take a very different tack. We are so the committee. Other States are going conscious of these things that it hurts. to do some of the same thing. In BPR, for example, for years we What is your own estimate of the In your contacts with top State high­ have expended as much of our effort way officials, do you find an increasing number of fatalities which could be in terms of man hours in the search consciousness of safety responsibility? to find ways to improve designs and avoided if roadside hazards and ob­ devices as on the roads themselves. stacles were eliminated? Yes. Yes, I do. Very much. We are constantly doing research— Based on the figures and experience Mr. Turner, how do you feel about doing experiments—doing studies on that we have had to date, I would the public attitude today with respect basic needs—on what the "customer" think they would be much fewer than to highway officials? wants and how we can best supply his the 15,000 to 18,000 a year mentioned I think there is a lack of apprecia­ needs. At least half the staff is en­ at the Blatnik hearings. My thought is tion of what highway people are doing gaged in trying to come up with bet­ about 10 per cent of that, or three to and trying to do. They make some ter ways to do things. We are con­ five per cent of our total traffic fatali­ errors like everybody else. But there stantly inventing or—to use the term ties. are a lot of factors with which they that's around right now—"innovat­ We ought to eliminate these acci­ must treat. This is a field in which ing." We are engaged in this our­ dents, of course. But the odds against everybody is an expert. But highway selves and in fostering it in others. a vehicle's going off the road at the people have to make the decisions in People who make that kind of criti­ exact spot where one of these hazards the stress and strain of the game. cism haven't bothered to learn the exists are fairly high. The substantial Everybody can do a better job of facts. proportion of accidents on the Inter­ making judgments after reading all You know, it isn't always possible state System involving a vehicle run­ the sports pages on Monday morning. to carry out all these "innovative" ning off the road is as high as it is We can do some Monday morning dreams. Somebody has to take a hard because most other causes have been quarterbacking ourselves. But our de­ look at them in terms of money, not eliminated. The fatality rate has been cisions are frozen in steel and con­ to speak of the laws of physics. reduced from 9'/2 per 100 million vehi­ crete and we may not get a chance to Do you feel that most State highway cle miles on other roads to IVi on change them for 50 years. officials follow in practice AASHO's the Interstate. That is a substantial All the same, we appreciate sug­ "Yellow Book" on safety design and reduction. Many accidents in this 2Vz gestions that the public is making and avoidance of roadside obstacles? figure involve alcohol. If we could the public's interest.

Page 20 Highway User / September, 1967 (COLLEGE EDITION) ENGINEERING OPPORTUNITIES9 v,5, No. 9-C

' Setpember/Fall 196? ? r>.8^ ' " " •;•

C ^A Comment for Engineering Students from "I suggest you look into our Highway Francis C. Turner, Director, *\ Engineer Training Program . . /' Bureau of Public Roads/

". . . In the planning and building of highways new construction and relocation techniques for our mushrooming vehicle traffic today, the . . . use of computers in structural design and best training course available anywhere in this planning, etc. Yet there's still no substitute for country, is the Bureau of Public Roads three- engineering judgment, which comes from year highway engineer training program. sound training and exposure.

"We look for about 75 BS or MS graduates in "I can testify personally to the thorough and civil engineering each year and give them un­ effective training by the Bureau of Public Roads paralleled formal and on-the-job training: The because, my own career began with BPR in program covers highway location, design, con­ 1929 as a Junior Highway Engineer. struction, maintenance, hydraulics, materials control, traffic engineering, planning, research, "f can assure you of a rewarding career." and administration.

"A career in Highway Engineering is more ex­ citing every day . . . with application of the

Francis C. Turner

To learn more ABOUT ihe pro­ grams, contact your Place­ IE. J. Martin, Chief Personnel and Training Division ment Director or write FOR a new booklet to: FEDERAL HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION 1717 H Street, N.W. • Washington, D.C. 20591 An equal opportunity employer/M&F

September, 1967