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LOK SABHA DEBATES (English Version)

First Session (Fightla Lok Sablaa)

... -

(YDl. I contllill8 Nos.. I toll)

IOK &\1JII4 Sl!CltETA1II4T MDV DILRI Ii '. •• t, {'" ..lIND III _ .. Va_ ... JMCLODiiD 1M fIIMDI V8UION ..... _ ...... AS ~ ...... ' _ ...... -...) .. ,~ . PREFACE

This is the first Volume of the Lok Sabba Debates for the Eighth Lok t)ha. Upto the end of Seventh Lok Sabha, two versions of Lok Sabha Debates were brought out, viz., (i) Original Version containing the proceedings of the House in the languages in which they took place except that in the case :- c;peeches made in regional languages, their English! Hindi translatiun was uded and the Urdu speeches were put in Devnagri script and their Persian scnpt was also given within brackets, and (ij) Hindi Version containing the T.J;'1di proceedings, Urdu proceedings in Devnagri script and Hindi translation Bnglish proceedings and also of speeches made in regional languages.

2. With effect from the First Session of Eighth Lok Sabha, in pursuance

4 a decision of the General Purposes Commltt ee of Lok Sabha, two versions 'f Lok Sabha Debates are being brought out, viz., (1) English Version contain­ ~ Lok Sabha proceedings in English and EnglIsh translation of the proceedings jch take place In Hindi or any regional language, and (i1) Hindi Version in ,loS prese nt form except that Urdu speeches are beIng put in Devnagri script and heir Persi an script is also being given within brackets.

3. In addition, Original Version of the Lok Sabha proceedings is being Ire pared and kept in Parliament Library suitably bound for purposes of record and reference only.

4. In both the English and the Hindi Versions, an appropriate indication ;J being given to specIfy where a particular part of the proceedings is original in Englishl Hindi or a translation,

5. It is hoped tbe two independent Hindi and English Versions will be ~ ~nd useful by Members and other. intereated.

NBW DBLBI, SUBHASH C. KASHYAP t J1llllMU1, 19,j &cnltll'y-GeMral.

(I) CONTENTS

No. 10, Tuesday, January 29, 1985/Mugha 9, 1906 (Saka)

COLU\{"lS

Welcome to H.E. Lic. Miguel Gonzalez Avelar, President of the Great Commission of the Union, Mexico 1

Obituary References 1-5

Papers Laid on the Table 5-19

Messages from Rajya Sabha 19

Matters Under Rule 377 20--23

(i) Survey of residential land in outer Delhi and need to ban its acquisition

Shri Bharat Singh 20

(ii) Need to preserve the ancient fame and glory of old Delhi

Shri Jai Parkash Agarwal 20

(iii) Scarcity of Drinking water in Barmer, J aisalmer, Jodhpur and Bikaner districts and need to make provision in 7th Plan for suppJy of drinking water through Rajasthan Canal

Shri Virdhi Chander Jain 21 (iv) Cooking gas agencies for Renukot, Obra and Robertsganj towns Distt. Mirzapur (UP)

Shri Ram Pyare Panika 22 (ii)

COLUMNS

(v) Need for clearance by Department of Environment for construction of Varadarajaswamy Project in Kumool district (A.P.) Shri Vo6 Sobhanadreeswara Rao 22 Sugar Undertakings (Taking over of Management) Amendment Bill 23-55

Motion to consider 22--54

Rao Birendra Singh 23

Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara Rao 24

Prof. N.G. Ranga 25

Shri Thampan Thomas 26

Shri R.P. Das 27

Shri B. K. Gadhvi 29

Shri Mool Chand Daga 32

Shri Ram Nagina Mishra 33

Shri Prakash V. Patil 36

Shri K.S. Rao 37

Sbri B. B. Ramaiah 38

Shri R.S. Mane 40

Shri Nissankara Rao Venkataratnam 40

Sbri Banwari Lal Purohit 41

Shri Anoopcband Shah 42 Shri Madan Pandey 43 Shrj Ananda Gajapathi Raju 4S

Shri Murlidbar Mane 46 Clauses

2, 3 and 1

Motion to pass- 54-55 Rao Bireodra Singh 5S (iii)

COLUMNS

Gangtok Municipal CorpOr&tioD (Amendment) Bill S6

Motion to con~ider- 56

Shri Abdul Ghafoor 57

Shri Ananda Pathak 59

Shri Mool Chand Daga 60

Shri Girdhari Lal Vyas 63

Shri Abdul Rashid Kabuli 67

Shri N. Tombi Singh 70

Clauses 2, 3 and 1

Motion to Pass- 74-76

Shri Abdul Ghafoor 74

Adminis,trative Tribunals Bill 79-102

~1otjon to consider-

Shri K.P. Singh Deo 76

Shri Nissankara Rao Venkataratnam 79

Shri Priya Ranjan Das Munshi 80

Shri Ajoy Biswas 88 Shri Lalit Maken 90

Shri Zainul Basher 93

Shri R. Anna Nambi 9S Clauses

2 to 37 and 1 Motion to Pass- 100-102

Shri K.P. Singb Deo 100 LOK SABRA DEBATES

1 2

LOK SABHA Kosalram, a sittinl Member and a former Member, namoly. Sbri Dbolaram Paradhl.

Shri K.T. Kosalram was a sittinl Member Tuesday. January 29, 1985/ Magha 9. 1906 (Saka) of Lok Sabba. He was elected from Tiruchendur Parliamentary Constituency of Tamil Nadu. He was also a Member oftbe Sixth and Seventh Lot Sabba durin. The Lok Sabha met at Eleven 0/ the Clock. 1977·84 from the same constituency. Earlier he was a Member of the tben com­ posite Madras State Legislative Assembly [MR. SPE AKER in the Chair] during 1946-56 and Tamil Nadu Legislative Council during 1957-62. He was a Member WELCOME TO H.E. LIC. MIGUEL of Tamil Nadu Legislative Assembly durinl GONZALEZ A VELAR, PRESIDENT 1962-67. OF THE GREAT COMMISSION OF THE UNION. MEXICO A veteran freedom tighter.. bo actively participated in the freedom movement from [ Engli\h] an early age and was imprisoned for several years. MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, at the outset, I have to make an announcement. A well-known social worker, be tirelessly worked for the uplift of Harijans and On my own and on behalf of the hone working class people. He organised the Members of the House, I have great pleas­ first Rehabilitation Centre for Sri Lanka ure in welcoming His Excellency Lie. Repatriates at Nazareth in 1954. Miguel Gonzalez Avelar, President of the Great Commission of the Union, Mexico. An agriculturist and an active small scale He is accompanied by a staff member of industriaJist he took special interest in the Mexican Embassy. They are now seated establishment of small industries in rural in the Special Box. We wish him a very areas and was especially committed to bappy and fruitful stay in our country. scientitic development and rural develop­ Through him we convey our greetings and ment. best wishes to tbe Parliament, Government and the friendly people of Mexico. A widely travelled person. an educatlonjst and a journalist, he was Editor of two --- Tamil newspapers.

11.01 brl. Last year, he happened to be with me in Seoul as a Member of my dcleption; and OBITUARY REFERENCES his death was so sudden tbat an of us feel his absence and it is such. shock to us. [EIIIIi~hl MR. SPEAKER: I have also to inform PROF N.G. RANOA (Guntur): He w. the House of tbe sad demise of Sbrl K.T. bore lut Frlda1. 3 Obituary References J ANUAR Y 29, 1985 4

MR. SPEAKER: Yes, only the other PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Let day, he was speaking here on the floor of me make my submission for a minute; you tbe House, hale and hearty and energetic can reject it. he was such an amiable person and I enjoyed his company and his wit so much PROF. K.K. TEWARY (Buxar): Sir, tbat I just felt lost when I heard about his this House should not encourage this sudden death. trend.

Shri K.T. Kosalram passed away sud­ MR. SPEAKER: There is no question denly on 27th January, 1985 at New Delhi of encouragement. I will find out, jf there at the age of 69 years. is anything.

Shri Bholaram Paradhi was a Member of PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : There the Third Lok Sabha during 1962-67 repre­ is no question hour today. You do not senting Balaghat constituency of Madhya know, you have forgotten. We are straight­ Pradesh. way beginning with the business. But, Sir, I do not want to take advant~ ge of his An agriculturist by profession, Shri ignorance. Paradhi was active in public life all through­ out the period 1922-51. MR. SPEAKER: He is so engrossed with Parliamentary work that he just forget A well-known sodal worker, he was it. associated with several social organisations besides being President of Nyaya Panchayat, PROF. MADHU DA~DAVATE: I Lalvari and member of Bal'ghat district have done my homework all r:ght. Sir, just Council for 15 years. only one submission. There is the Preven­ tion of InsuHs to N.ltional Honour Act , 1(J71. Shri Bholaram Paradhi passed away on 23rd January, 1985 at the age of H'7 years at Balaghat. In front of a National Rftyon Corpolation in Kalyan. crowds had ~.s[cmbJed on the We deeply mourn the loss of these Republic Day, for Flag Celebration. They friends. I am sure the Hvuse would join were fired upon ... me in conveying our condolences to the hereaved families. (Interruptions)

The House may stand in silence for a MR. SPEAKER: I will find out Pro­ short while to express its sorrow. fessor... One thing, it is a State suhject. But I will find out. (The Membe, s th~n !Iood in SIlence for a ~horl ".hile). PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : Slf, there cannot be a worse insult to the Natio­ nal Flag ...

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Rai.. pur) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, before )OU take up (Interruplion3) the next item, I wish to make a submission that this House had passed in 1971 the MR. SPEAKER: I wm find out. Prevention of Insult to National Honour Act. .... PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE : I am sati~fied with it. Kindly instruct the Home ~1R. SPEAKER: I have to find out. I Minister to enquire into the matter...... do Dot know whether this is what it j~. ) (Interruplion\) An Inquiry Commjttee shall find out, should be aprointed. S Papers L1ad on the Table MAOHA 9, 1906 (SAKA) Paperl Laid on the Table 6

MR. SPEA KER: I will find out. I said Ninety-fifth Report of Law Commission OD that. I do not know anything. I will ask Constitutional Division within the Supreme the Home Minister. Court-A proposal for Hundred and Fifth Report of Law Commission on Qualit, Control and Inspection of Consumer Goods, SHRI AMAL DATTA (Diamond Central Wakf Council (Amendment) Rule. Harbour) : Sir, you had promised that 1'84, Annual Report and Review on tile we would get a chance to discuss the espio- working of Central Wake Conncil for nage rna tter . 1983·84.

MR. SPEAKER We have already decided. So do not worry about it. THE MINISTER OF LA WAND JUSTICE (SHRI A. K. SEN): I be, to lay on the Table-

11.06 brs. (1) A copy of the Ninety-Fifth Report PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE (Hindi and English versions) of Law Commission on Constitutional Divi· sion within the Supreme Court-A [Enzlishl Proposal for. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-302/8S]. Notifications under Cantonment Act, 1924

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (2) A copy of the Hundred and Fifth MINISTRY OF FINANCE, (SHRI Report (Hindi and English versions) JANARDHANA POOJARY): on behalf of Law Commission on Quality of Shri P.V. Narsimha Rao, I beg to Jay on Control and Inspection of Consumer the Table-A copy each of the following Goods. Notifications (HlOdi and EnglIsh versions) [Placed 10 Library. See No. LT-303/851. under f:ub-section (3) of section 281 of the Cantonments Act, 1924 ~- (3) A copy of the Central Wakf Council (l) The Cantonment Fund Servants (Amendment) Rules, 1984 (Hindi and (Second Amendment) Rules, 1983 English versions) published in Noti­ (Hindi and English versions) publi­ fication No. GSR 1264 in Gazette shed in Notification No. SRO 284 of India dated the 22nd December, in Gazette of India dated the 29th 1984, under sub-section (3) of section October, 1983 together with Corri­ 80 of the Wakf Act, 1954. genda thereto published in Notifica­ tion Nos. SRO 11 dated the 7th [Placed in Library. See No. LT-304/8S1. January, 1984 and SRO 126 dated the 2nd June, 1984 together with an (4) (i) A copy of the Annual Report explanatory memorandum. (Hindi and English versions) of the Central Wakf Council for the yeM (2) SRO 24 (E) published in Gazette of 1983-84 along with Audited India dated the 28th February, 1984 Accounts. specifying powers and duties of an Executive Officer which a Canton­ ment can authorise to any of its (ii) A statement (Hindi and Bnglish members or officers to exercise or versions) relardinl Review by tbe perform in the absence of the Execu­ Government on the working or the tive Officer, together with an expla­ Central Wakf Council for the year natory memorandum. 1983-84. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-30l/85]. [Placed in Library. S~, No. LT-305/85J. 7 Popers Laid on 'he Table JANUARY 2Q. 1985 Papers Laid on Ihe Table 8

Notifications under Essential Commodities Board of Practical Training, Eastern Act, 1966 Region, Calcutta, for the year 1983-84 along with Audited Accounts. THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (SHR[ (ij) A copy of the Review (Hindi and BUT A SINGH): I beg to lay on the EngHsh versions) by the Government Table a copy each of the followir"lg Notlficat· on the working of the Board of ions (Hindi and English versjon~) uncer sub­ Practical Training, Eastern Region, section (6) of section 3 of the E,sential Com· Calcutta, for the year 1983-84. modales Act, 1955 : {Placed in Library. See No. LT·307/85].

(I) GSR 617 (E) published in Gazette of (2) (i) A copy of the Annual Report India dated the 21st August, 19S~ (Hindi and English versions) of the regarding fixation of prices of Ammo­ Board of Apprenticeship Training nium Sulphate and Calcium Ammo­ (\Vestt.:rn RegiOn) Bombay, for the nium Nitrate (25 per c~nt N). year 1983-81 along with Audited Accounts. (2) GSR 653 (E) published in Gazette of India cated the'; th Serterr t tr. 1984 (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and regarding fixation of price of Calcium Engli-;h version~) by the Government Ammonium Nitrate (26 per cent N). on the workipg ot the Board of Apprem iccship Train;ng l \\'estern Region) Bom:-,ay, fllf the year (~) The Fertilizer (l\1ovement Control) 1983-8-1. Amendment Order, lq~4 (Hindi and English versions) published in Notlfi· [PJaced In Library, See No. LT· 308/85]. cation No. GS R '707 (E) in G3zette of India dated the 1st October, 198·l, (3) 0) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and Engl:sh versit"H1s) of the Board of Aprr entire ship Training (4) GSR 840 (E) published in G?ze:te (Southern Reg:on) M2.dr~s, for the of India dated the 31 st December, year 1933-8'; along with Audited 198-t, rega rding appointrr,ent of In~· Accounts. peClor of Fertilisers under FertiJi~er (Control) Order, J957. (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and fPJilced in Library. Sn' No. LT-':06j85J. English versions) by the Government on the working of the Board of Apprenticeship Trainin~ (Southern Annual Reports and Reviews on tbe work­ Region) Madras, for the year 1Y83· 84. ing of Board of Practical Training Eastern l~egioD, Calcutta for 1983·84, Board· of [Placed in Library. See No. LTp 3(9/85]. Apprc!llticesbip Training (W. stern Region) Bombay 1983-84. Board of Apprenticeship (4) 0) A copy of the Annual Report Training (Northern Training) (Southern (Hindi and Eogli~h versions) of the Region) Madras (or 1983·84. Board of Board of Apprentice~hip Training Apprenticeship Training (Northern Rf'gion) (Northern Regivn) Kanpur, for the Kanpur for 1983 84, Technical Teachers year 1983· 84 ~do'ig wah Audited Training Institute \\'estern Region, Bbopal Accounts. for 19113-84 etc. (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and THE MI~HSTER OF EDUCATION English ver~ions) by the Government (SHRI K C. PANT): I beg to lay on the on the working of th ~ Board of Table- Apprenticeship Training (Northern Region) Kanpuf, for the year 1983-84. (1) (0 A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of the (Placed in Library. SCI! No LT-310/8S1, 9 Paper3 Laid on the Tablt MAGHA 9,1906 (SAKA) Papers LOld on the Table 10

(5) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (ii) A copy of the Annual Accounts (Hindi and English versions) of the (Hindi and Englic;h versions) of Technical Teachers' Training Insti­ Technical Teachers Training Institute tute, Western Region, Bhopal, for the (Northern Region), Chandigarh, for year 1983-84 along with Accounts. the year 1983· 84 together with Audit Report thereon. (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and English versions) by the Government (iii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and on the working of the T::chnical Engli,h verc;ions) by the Government Teachers' Training Institute, Western on the working of the Technical Region, Bhopal, for the year 1983·84. Teachers' Training 1nstitute [Placed in Library, See No. LT 311/85]. (Northern Region), Chandigarb, for the year 1983· b4. (6) (i) A copy of the Annual Report [PJaceJ in Library. See No. LT-314/85]. (Hindi and Englis.h versions) of the Teacher~' Trainmg Institute (Eastern (9) (i) A copy of the Annual Report Region) Calcutta, for the year (Hindi and Engh~h versions) of the 1983-84. Schoo] of Planning ,-nd ArchItecture, New Delhi, for the year 1983 84 along Oi) A copy of the Annual Account~ ~jth Audited Accour.!<;. (Hindi and English versions) of the Technical Teachcr~' Training In".ti­ (ii) A C0py of the RevieVv (Hindi find tute (Eastern Region), Calcutta, for Eng1i~h \ ~r<;kns) by the Government the year 1983· 84, together with A ndit on the working of the School of Plan­ Report thereon. ning and Architecture, New Delhi, for [Placed in Library. See No. LT-31"'J85]. the year If 83- 8 +. [Pllced in Library. See No. L T-315/85] (iii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and English versions) by the Government on the working of the Technical (to) (i) A COP) of the Annual Report (Hindi and Fnglish versions) of the Teachers' Trainin!" Institute, (E3~tcrn Region) Calcutta, for the } ear Society for the National Instltute~ of 1983-84. Ph)sjc~1 fducation and Sports, Pdlial ..l, f~1r the year 1983-f4 along (Placed in Library. See No. LT-3l2/8S). with Audited Accounts.

(7) (0 A copy of the Annual Report (II) A copy of the Review (Hindi and (Hi'1di and EngJish versions) of the English versions) by the Government Technical Teachers' Training Institute Southe.rn Region, Madras, tor the on the working of the Society for the Educa­ y~ar 19~J·84 along wah Audited NallOn.11 Iu'.\titutes of Phy,ical Accounts. tion and Sporb, Patiala, for the year 1983-S.J. Oi) A copy of the Review (Hindi and Englbh versions) by the Government (11) A statt"ment (Hindi and English ver. on the working of the TechnJCal sions) showing reasons for delay in Teacher~t Institute. Southern Regiol1, la, ing the papers mentioned at (10) Madra~, for the year 198J·~4. above.

[PJaced in Library. S~~ No. LT-3lJ/8 ]. [Placed in Library. Ste No. LT.316/8S].

(8) (j) A copy of the AnnuaJ Report (12) (0 A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of the ( Hindi acd English versions) of the Technical Teachers' Training Institute Indian Institute of Advanced Study, (Norlhern Region), Chandigarh," for SJmJa, for the )ear 1983-84 along tbe year 1983-84. with Audited Accounts. 1 1 Pa~,s Laid on th~ Tabl~ JANUARY 29, 1985 Pap~rs Laid on th~ Tab/~ 12

(ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and on the working of the Karnataka English versions) by the Government Regional Engineering College, Sri· on the working of the Indian In~ti!ute nivasnagar, for the year 1983-84. of Advanced Study, Simla, for the [Placed in Library. Sf'e No. LT.322/85]. year 1983·84.

[Placed in Library. See No. LT.317/8S]. (18) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of the (13) (0 A copy of the Annual Report Sardar VaUabhabhai Regional of the National Institute of Foundry College of Engineering and Techno· and Forge Technology, Ranchi, for logy, Surat, for the year 1983-84. the year 1983·84 along with Audited ACcounts. (ij) A copy of the Review (Hindi and English versions) by the Government (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and on the working of the Sardar Valla­ English versior s) by the Government bhbhai Regional College of Engineer. on the working of the National Insti­ ing and Technology, Surat, for the tute of Foundry and Forge Techno­ year 1983-84. logy. Rancbi, for the year 1983-84. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-318j8S]. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-323/8S]. (19) (i) A copy of the Annual Report C4) (0 A copy of tbe Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of tbe (Hindi and English versions) of the Regional Engineering CoHege, Regional Institute of Technology, Kurukshetra, for the year 1983·8·4, Jamshedpur, for the year 1983-84. (ij) A copy of the Annual Accounts (ij) A copy of the Review (Hindi and (Hindi and English versions) of the English versions) by ahe Government Regional Enginc(.ring ColJ~ge, on the working of the Regional Insti­ Kurukshetra, for the year 1983~84 tute of Technology, Jamshedpur, for together with Audit Report thereon. the year 1983-84. ZPIaced in Library. See No. LT-319/85]. (iii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and English versions) by the Government (I5) A copy of the Annual Accounts on the working of the Regional (Hindi and English versions) of the Engineering College, Kurukshetra, Kendriya Hindi Shikshan Mandai, for the year 1983-8.t. Agra, for the year 1983-84, together [Placed in Library. See No. LT-324/85]. with Audit Report thereon.

[Placed in Library. See No. LT-320/85]. (20) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of the (16) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi Malaviya Regional Enginnering Col­ and English versions) of the Central lege, Jaipur, for the year] 983·84. Institue of Hindi, Agra, for the year 1983·84. (ii) A copy or the Review (Hindi and [Placed in Library. See No. LT-321/851. English versions) by the Government on the working of the Malaviya Reg;onal Engineering College, (i) A (17) copy of the Annua) Report Jaipur, for the year 1983-84. (Hindi and English versions) of the Karnataka Regional Engineering [Place~ in Library. See No. LT-32S/85]. ColJege, Srinivasnagar, for the year 1983-84. (21) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of the (ij) A copy of the Review (Hindi and Regtonal Engineering CoJleee, Tiru­ Enalish versions) by the Government chirapalli, for the year 1983·84. 13 Pap~rs Latd on the Table MAGHA 9. 1906 (S,4K.4) Paper$ Laid 0" the Tabie J4

(ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and (iii) A copy of the Rel'iew (Hindi and English versions) by the Government English versions) bv the Government on the working of the Regional on the working of the' Regional Engineering Conege, Tiruchlfapalli, Engineering College, Roulkela for for the year 1983·84. the year 1983-84. [Placed in Library. See No. LT·326/85]. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-329/8S].

(2?), (i) A copy of the Annual Report (25) (n A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versionfll ) of the (Hindi and English versions) of the Visvesvaraya Regional ColJege of Regional Engineering College, Cdh.

Engineering, Nagpur J for tbe year cut, Kerala, for the )ear 1983-84. 1983-84. (ii) A copy of the Annual Accounts (ij) A copy of the Annual Accounts (Hindi and EngHsh ver~ jon~) of the (Hindi and English versions) of the Regional Engineering College, Visvesvaraya Regional College of CaIicut, for the year 19P3-84 to­ En gineering, Nagpu r, for the yeaar gether with Audit Report thereon. 1983'84 together with Audit Report thereon. (iii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and English versions) by the Government (iii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and on the wOlking of the Regional English versions) by the Government Engineering College, Calicut, for the on the working of the Visvesvaraya year 1983·84. Regional Co)Jege of Engineering, Nagpur, for the year 1983·84. (26) A statement (Hindi and English versions) shOWing rea~on) for deJay in [Placed in Library. See No. LT-327/85]. laying the AnnuaJ Rerort Audned Accounts of tre Re~ioI1a I Engmecring (:3) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of the College, Rourkela, CaLcut, Kuruk. Regiona 1 Engineering College, shetra. \\'arangal ~3grur, Surat, \"arangal, for the year 1953·84. TiruchirapaUi, Jaipur, Surathk.aJ, Jamshecipur, Regional J nstltute of Technology, Jamshedpur, MauJana (ii) A copy of the Annual Accounts AZ3d College of Techno10gy, Bhopa1, (Hindi and Fnglish versions) of the National Institute of F..._,t:nJry and Regional Enginnering College, Forge TechnoJogy, Ranch;, School of WarangaJ, for the year 198:-84 to­ PJanning and Architecture, New gether with Audit Report thereon. Delhi, Board of .A. pprenticcsbjp Training, Kanpur, ~!3dras, Bombay, (iii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and Calcutta, New Delhi, Technical Tea· EngJish versions) by the Government chers Training Institutes, Chandjg~rh, on the working of the Regional Calcutta, Madras and Bhopal and Engineering College, Warangal, for Educational Consultants IndIa Limit­ the year 1983·84. ed, New Delhi for the year 1933·8-'. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-328/85]. [flaced in Library. See No. LT-330/85].

(24) (n A copy of the Annual Report (27) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of the (Hindi and English versions) of the Regional Engineering College, Indian Institute of TecLnology, Delhi, Rourkela, for the year 1983·84. for the )ear 1983-84, under sub­ section (4) of section 23 of the Indian (ii) A copy of the Annual Accounts Institute of Technology Act, 1961. (Hindi and English versions) of the Regional Engineering College, Rour­ (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and keJa, for the year 1983·84 together English versions) by the Government with Audit Report thereon. on the workins of the Indian Insti- 15 Papers Laid on 'he Table JANUARY 29, 1985 Pape,s Laid on tht Table 16

tute or Technology, Delhi, for the PORT (SHRl Z.R. ANSARI): I bel to year 1983-84. lay on the Table- [Placed in Library. See No. LT·33J/85]. (I) A copy of Notification No. O.S.R. 15 (E) (Hindi and English versions) publi· {28) (i) A copy of the Annual Report shed in Gazette of India dated the 9th (Hindi and English versions) of the January, 1984 approving the KandJa Port Indian Institute of Technology. Employees (GIant of Advances for Building Madras, for the year 1983-84 under Houses) Amendment Regulations, 1985 as sub-section (~) of section 23 of the set out in the Schedule to the Notification, Indian Institute of Technology Act, under sub-section (4) of section 124 of the 1961. Major Port Trust Act, J963. (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and [PJaced in Library. See No. LT-335/85]. English versions) by the Government on the working of the Indian Institute (2) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi of Technology, Madras, for the and English versions) of the Madras year 1983-84. Dock Labour Board for the year 1983-84. [Placed in Library. See No. LT-332/85]. [Placed in Library. See No. L T .. 336/85]. (I. 9) A C.Jpy each of the following papers (Hindi and English versions) under (3) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi subsection (l) of section 619A of the and English versions) of the Visakha­ Companies Act, ]956 :- patnam Dock Labour Board for the year 1983-84. (i) Review by the Government on the [Placed in Library. See No. LT·337/85j. working of the Educational Consul­ (4) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi tants India Limited, New Delhi, for and English versions) on the working the year 1983·84. of the Seamen's Provident Fund Scheme, 1966, under suh-section (1) (i i) Annual Report of the Educational of section 3 of tbe Seamen's Provident Consultants India Limited, New Fund AC1, 1966. Delhi, for the year 1983-84 along with Audited Accounts and the com­ [Placed in Library St'e No. LT-338/85]. ments of the Comptro)Jer and (S) A copy each of the following pa pers Auditor General thereon. (Hindi and English versions) under [Placed in Library. See No. LT-333/85]. sub-section (l) of section 619A of the Companies Act, 1956 :- (30) A statement (Hindi and English ver­ sions) showing reasons for delay in (a) (i) Review by the Government on laying the Annual Report and Audited the working of the Cochin Accounts of the Indian Institute of Shipyard Limited, (or the year Advanced Study, Simla for tbe year 19~3·84. 1983-84. [Placed in Library. See No. LT -334/8S]. (ii) Annual Report of the Cochin Shipyard Limited, for the year Notification ODdar Major Port Trust Act 1983·84 along with Audited 1963, Annual Reports of Madras Dock Accounts and the commenh of Labour Board for 1983-84. Visakbapatnam the Comptroller and Auditor Dock Labour Board for 1983·84, Seamen's General thereon. Pro,ideDt Fund Scheme 1966. Review on [Placed in Library. See No. LT-339/85]. tbe work iog of Cochln Sbipyard Ltd. for 1983·84 etc etc. (b) (i) Review by the Government on the working of the Hindustan THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE Shipyard Limited, for the year MINISTRY OF SHIPPING AND TRANS- 1983-84. 17 Papers Laid on the Table MA(jHA 9, 1906 (SAKA) Paper, Laid on the Table 18

(U) Annual Report of the Hindustan withdraw the customs duty exemp­ Shipyard Limited for the year tion of liquid nitrogen refrigerators 1983·84 along with the Audited aud flasks upto (;0 litre capacity. Accounts and the comments of the Comptroller and Auditor (ii) GSR 28(E) and 29(E) published in General thereon. Gazette of India dated the 16th [Placed in Library. See No. LT-340/8S]. January, 1985, together with an ex­ planatory memorandum regarding (6) A copy of the Solatium Fund (Amen­ exemption to components required dment) Scheme, 1984 (Hindi and for the manufacture of Jight, English versions) published in Notifi~ medium and heavy commercial catio:] No. S.O. 803 (E) in Gazette of motor vehicles and of tractor, and India dated the 22nd October, 1984 the goods other than basic raw sub~section (4) under of section 133 of material required for the manufacture the Motor Vehicles Act, 1939. of such c.omponents from basic cus­ toms duty in excess of 25 per cent [Placed in Library. See No. LT-34118S]. from auxiliary duty of customs in (7) A copy of Notification No. G.S.R. excess of 20 per cent ad valorem and 813 (E) (Hindi and English versions) from the whole of the additional duty. published in Gazette of India dated the 12th December, 1984 approving [Placed in Library. See No. LT-344/85). the Paradip Port Employees (Classifi­ cation, Control and Appeal) (Amend­ Annual Reports and Re,iews on the ment) Regulations, 1984, under sub­ working of Sangeet Natak Akademi, New section (4) of section 124 of the Major Delhi for 1983-84 and centre for Cultural Port Trust Act, 1963. Resources and Traioing, New Delhi for [Placed in Library. See No. LT-342j8S]. 1983-84.

Sales Tax (Amendment) Rules 1985. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Notifications under Customs Act, 1962 DEPARTMENTS OF PERSONNFL AND ADMINISTRATIVE REFORMS AND THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE CULTURE (SHRI K.P. SINGH DEO): MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRI I beg to lay 00 the Table - JANARDHANA POOJARY): I beg to lay on the Table- (l) (I) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of (1) A copy of the Delhi Sales Tax (Amen· Sangeet Natak Akademi, New Delhi t dment) Rules, 1985 (Hindi and for the year J 983·84 along with English versions) published in Notifi­ Accounts. cation No. F. 4(3)/85-Fin (0) in Delhi Gazette dated the 23rd January, 1985 tiD A copy of the Review (Hindi and under section 72 of the Delhi Sales, English versions) by the Government Tax Act, 1975. on the working of the Saogeet Natak [Placed in Library. S~e No. LT-343/85]. Akaderoi, New Delhi, for the year 1983·84. (2) A copy each of the following Notifica­ tions (Hindi and English versions) [Placed in Library. See No. LT-345/85]. under section 159 of the Customs Act, 1962:- (2) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of the (i) GSR 27(E) published in Gazette of Centre for Cultural Resources and India dated the 16th January, 1985, Training, New Delhi, for the year together with an expJanatory memo­ 1983-84 along with Accounts. randum making certain amendments to Notification No. 215/76-Customs (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi and dated the 2nd AUBust, 1976 so as to English versions) by the Government 19 M~ssaztsfrom Rajya Sabha JANUARY 29, 1985 Matter,Ulldlf Ruf, 377 20

on the working of th, Centre for MR. SPEAKER: Members are aware Cultural Resources and Training, that today Beatin8 Retreat function will be New Delhi, for the year 1983· 84. held. In order to enabJe Members to wit­ ne~s the Beating Retreat, I propose to CPlaced in Library. See No. LT·346/85]. adjourn the House at 4 P.M. today. I hope the House agrees. Annual Plan 1984·85 I may also remind the Members that THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE tO,morrow at i 1 A.M. two minutes silence MINISTRY PLANNING (SHRI OF Will be observed by the House in memory K.R. NARA YA NAN): I beg to lay on the of those who gave their lives in the struggle TabJe a copy of the 'Annual Plan 1984 .. 85' for India's freedom. The Speaker win take (Hindi and English versions). the Chair a Jittle before 1) A. M. The [Placed in Library. See No. LT.. 347/85]. Members may kindly take their seats in the House by 10.SS A.M.

MESSAGES FROM RAJYA SABHA MATTERS UNDER RULE 377 [Engli~h] [Tram, lation] SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have (i) Survey of residential land in Outer to report the fol1owing messages received Delbi and need to ban its acquisition from the Secretary-General of Rajya Sabba: SHRI BHARAT SINGH (Outer Delhi) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission I (i) 'loIn accordance with the provisions of want to bring to your notice the difficult~ of rule 127 of the Rules of Procedure the residents (Jf Outer Delhi. The land is and Conduct of Business in the Rajya acquired by tbe Delhi Administration for Sabha, I am dlfected to inform the residential purposes. The land so acquired Lok Sabha that the Rajya Sabha, at already has some built-in houses. So, it is its sitting held on the 25th January, necessary that before going in for such 1985, agreed without any amend­ ~cquisjtion, a survey of the built-up areas ment to the Representation of the IS undertaken and such areas exempte d People (Amendment) BiIJ, 1985, which fcom acquisition. At the same time was passed by the Lok Sabha at its provision should also be made for com­ sitting held on the 23rd January, mu?ity and civic amenities, Hke parks, 1985." dratDage etc. The notices already served on the owr.crs of such houses under sections (il) "In accordance with the provIsions 4 and 6 may be withdrawn. so that the poor of rule 127 of the Rules of Procedure people are saved from the complications af and Conduct of Business in the Rajya litigation. Sabha, I am directed to inform the Lot Sabha that the Rajya Sabha, at (ii) Need to preserve aacient fame and its sitting held on the 25th January, glory of old Delhi 1985, agreed without any amendment to the Calcutta Metro Railway SHRI JAI PARKASH AGARWAL (Operation and Maintenance) Tem­ (Cbandni Chowk): Mr. Speaker, Sir, Delhi porary Provisions Bill, 19l55, which has a special status among tbe Metropolises was passed by the Lok Sabha, at its of the world. Various rulers of India made sitting held on the 23rd January, it tbeir capital. Everyday, tourists from all 198! ., over the world visit Delhi to see its histori­ cal n:onuments and places of architectural and cultural importance. But with the passage of time the distinctive character of ancient Delhi is becomiDI extinct. The 21 Matt'" und" Rul, 377 MAGHA 9, 1906 (SAKA) Malltr, u"d1r Rule 377 22

saying of Zauq, a contemporary of Bahadur A permanent solution of the drinking water Shah Zafar, "Kaun Jai Zauq Dilli ki gallan problem lies in Rajasthan Canal which is now Chhod kar, tt is no longer relevant now. known as Indira Canal Lift canals and Flow Chandni Chowk is now totally devoid of canals can serve Saiba (Ganganagar, Churu) its old grandeur and beauty. Hlgh rise and Gajner and Ko)ayat. Fa1audi, Pokaran buildings have come up there hampering and Mohangarh and GLldhra Road. So, I proper passage of air and light. There are request the Central Government to make unending crowds everywhere. The ever­ provision in tbe Seventh Five Year Plan for increasing influx of population is engulfing supply of drinking water by lift canals in the splend or, glory and beauty of the carital. Barmer, JaisaJmer, Jodh!)ur, Bikaner, The ancient character of Delhi city is on tbe Ganganagar and Chure D1SlrictS. decline. Its identity is getting lost in the sttuggle between old and cew. It is the duty (iv) Cooking gas agencies Cor Renukot, of all of us to preserve and protect the Obra and Robertsgan j tOWDS, district traditional character, grandeur and unique Mirzapur (U.P.). beauty of old Delhi. I request the Central Government to take immediate and effective SHRI RAM PYARE PANIKA (Roberts­ step s in the matter. ganj): Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is great resentment among the peop!e in connection (iii) Scarcity of Drinking water in with the action that the Central Government Barmer, Jaisalmer, Jodbpur and have been taking during the last fewyearsfor Bikaner districts and need to make providing cooking gas facillty in Renukot, provision in 7th Plan for supply of Obra and Robertsganj towns of Mirzapur drinking water through RajasthaD District because in the absence of cooking Canal. gas in these industnal towns, the people are facing a grave fuel problem. The decIsion to SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN allot gas agency in Renukot has been revoked (Barmer) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is acute and second advertisement has not been gjven shortage of drinking water in the desert areas in this regard. Si.:nilarh, second advertise­ and the border dIstricts of the country. Even ment has not been given for Robertsganj and after spending crores of rupees, the position undue delay is being caused In respect of in respect of drinking water bas become worse Obra. In respect of Chunar also, no adver­ in mast of the villages in the districts of tisement has so far come out whIle the Barmer, Jaisalmer, Jodhpur and Bikaner. Government bas a policy to provide cooking gas facility to the towns having a population of less than 20,000. So, while inviting Rural water supply schemes were formulat­ the attention of the hon. Petroleum ed under the Sixth Five Year Plan and provi Minister towards the said problems, I sion for dnnking water through tubewel1s was demand that action rna) be taken to allot gas made in hundreds of villages. But the villages agencies in these towns at the earliest are spread in an area of 25 square kilometers to 200 square kilometers and the rural popu­ [English] lation living in "dhonis" has also to be provided drinking water. (v) Need for clearance by Department of Environment for Construction of Varadarajaswamy Project in Kurnool Some tubewells in Lathi Series have proved District (~.P.) to be successful. Most of the tubewells have a capacity of soo to 3,000 gallons which is SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA insufficient to meet the requirements of rural RAO (Vijayawada) : Varadarajaswamy Pro.. areas and t.hus a number of villages are ject in Kurnool district, Andbra Pradesh deprived of drinking water. The water in the was approved by PJannJog Commission long tube wells is also drying up which may lead to back. Government of Andhra ~radesh has a situation in 1° to 20 years where the tube­ taken up construction and substantial weJls would dry up completely because of amount was spent on that project. Mean­ their over use. In a number of villages while the Department of Environment has tubewells have not proved a success. objected to the project stating that it would 23 Sugar Undertakings JANUARY 29, 1985 Management) 24 (Taking over 0/ dmendment Bill

inundate nearly 40 acres of forest land. Mr. V.S. Rao, would you to speak on this Rayalaseema is a permanently drought hit Bill ? area and so this project win help thousands of farmers and lakhs of agricultural labour­ SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA ers. Hence there is urgent need for the RAO (Vijayawada): Mr. Speaker, Sir, Ministry of Environment and Forests to I disapprove of this Sugar Undertakings look into the nlatter and give clearance to (Taking Over of Management) Amendment enable the completion of Varadarajaswamy Bill because the Government of India which project at the earliest. is expected to show the same interest regar­ ding the Sugar problems pertaining to the sugar industry in all the States, is unfortu­ nately taking greater interest in the problems 11.1S hrs. of the SU{ ar industry in Uttar Pradesh. There are many other sugar factories which SUGAR UNDERTAKINGS (TAKING are closed, which are not functioning, which OVER OF M~NAGEMENT) AMEND· have to pay crores of rupees as arrears to MENT BILL cane growers, and which are not taken over (As passed by Ro.iJa S"bha) by the Goveinment of India. The five factories which have been taken over under [English] this Act, recently, are all in Uttar Pradesh. MR. SPEAKER: Now we take up items Tre original Act bad contemplated to take Nos. ] I and J 2 together. for which one hour over some factories and it was expected has been aBotted. Dr. A K. Patel. Hon. that they would take them over for three ~lember is not present. Rao Birendra Singh. years. Subsequently it was increased by another three years. Now, in the seventh THE MINISTER OF FOOD'AND CIVIL year they want to take over some morc. I SUPPLIES (RAO BIRENDRA SINGH) : would like to bring to the Dotice of the hon. I beg to move* : Minister that one factory the Cbellapalli sugar factory in Krishna District, Andhra "That the BiB further to amend the Sugar Pradesh, had to pay Rs. 1.5 crores to the Undertakings (Taking Over of Manage­ sugar cane growers as dues. It has not ment) Act, 1978, as passed by Rajya wo~ked during the last season. It is not Sabha, be taken into consideration." working during this season and it owes to the workers a sum of Rs. SO lakhs as arrears This is a very simple amending Bill to of wages. . replace an Ordinance we promulgated in November. It is intended to increase the period of take over of mills from six to I request the hone Minister to take over seven years. so that Government can further the management of Chellapalli sugar factory discuss the matter, or handing them back to because it satisfies an the requirements of the owners, after considering properly as to this Act, as mentioned in the objectives, and what safeguards can be provided so that the fulfils the conditions which are mentioned mills do Dot again become sick and Govern­ for taking over of management of factories ment dues also may be recovered. under this Act.

I hope the House will also pass this Bill I aJs~'Dt to mention that by extending unanimously. the period by one more year, it is not going to slove the problem of sugar industry. Mr. MR. SPEAKER: Motion moved: Speaker, Sir, you are wen aware tbat several cooperative sugar factories as well as some "That the Bin further to amend the Sugar sugar factories in that public sector are Undertakings (Taking over of Manage­ incurring Josses to the tune of crores of ment) Act, 1978, as passed by Rajya rupees because 01 the unrealistic anti­ Sabba, be taken into consideration." pea!ant policy that is being pursued by the

.Moved with the recommcndation of the President. 2$ Sugar Undertakings MAGHA.9, 1906 (oSAKA) Managetnelll) 26 (Taking cJJltr 0/ Amendm~nl Bill

Government of India. With all respect to workers have had to suffer. I do not know the hone Minister I would like to submit why the Government is ddaying any action that in spite of the fact that the Agricultural to protect tbe interest of the farmers. Prices Commission has recommended Rs. J6.S0 as minimum statutory price foi." sugar­ 1124 hrs. cane and one han. Member on behalf of the peasants in the A. P.C. Chaudhry Ranbir [MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER In the Chair) Siogh, recommended Rs. 25/- on a recovery It is high time that some definite decision of 10 per cent, the Government has not was taken by the Government. accepted the judgment of this expert body. Because of the unrealistically low price, the In regard to other things I cannot say cooperative sugar factories and those in the anything because it is for the Mioi~ter to public sector are incurring losses worth give answers to all the points. But the crores of rupees. The State Governments remunerative price has to be there. Whether bave to help them by way of advance under what the Agricultural Pri:es Commis~ion ways and means scheme or as loan. In fact, has suggested is enough or not I cannot say the State Government of Andhra Pradesh anything here and now. But I do know that has given nearly Rs. 3S crores to these there is a need for maintaining two prices­ factories. I request the Government to one for the low income peopl~ all over the give a remunerative price to the cane country and the Olh!f free market growers. The sugar price should also be price. The free market price and the increased. What is the logic in keeping the procurement price that is paid by price of sugar at a low level? The sugar the Government, should be such as cane price is even lower than that to leave sufficient margin for the sugar mIlls of firewood. The consumers are to make a reasonabJe profit and at the same not subsisting only on sugar. They time allow remunerative price to be paid to are taking rice, cloth and other items of the growers. daily use. Whereas you are allowing increase in prices in respect of other commodities, I hope and trust that my hone friend will you are keeping the pr ices of sugar at a low try to review the policy that has been level jU!)t to heJp the upper class peopJe and followed till now and see if there is any saidried people. These people are being scope for improvement so that the farmers helped and not the poor cane growers, as weJl as the worker5 could be protected agricultural workers, etc. I request the and the sugar mills would not have to ro on Minister to take an impartial view so that lo~ing. if they are losing at all. I would also the sugar industry can grow. It is an agro­ lik(" the hon. Minister to look into the based industry which is helping millions of managements of the sugar mills. Why is it people. This price increase will help not that !'o many sugar mills, even the coopera­ only the cane growers but also the agricul': tive mills; should be losing so heavily tbat turallabourers to get more wages. they are not able to pay to the cane-growers the prices fi~ed by the Government and I request the Minister to take over the agreed to by tbe mill owners ? management of Chellapalli sugar fdctory which satisfies aU the condltions and SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS (Mclve­ requirements under this Act. I requ~st the likara) : "ir. Deputy-Speaker, Slf, I would Minister to take a decision in this regard. like to bring to tbe notice of the bon. Minis­ ter the problems of the sugar industries, PROF. N.G. RANOA (Guntur) : I have especially those of the agriculturists. They a few points to make on this B.U. I agree are not getting back even the expenses which with my hOD. friend from the oPPosition they incur for cultIvating sugarcane. On that this Chellapalli sUlar mill should be the one band, there are no such activities by taken over by the Government. the Government which can support the cul­ tivators and, on tbe other hand, tbe workers He bas stated quite correctly tbat the working in sugar factories, are getting very farmers have been made to suffer because of Jaw wages. Now some of the industries, no~·payment of the dues to them. So also especially the industries based 00 by-pro- S",ar Ullde"aking, JANUARY 29,1985 Management) 28 (Taking Ore, 0/ ..4mendment Bill

ducts, are facinl crisis because of tbe policy which was not intended in the or iginal Bill, of the Government in not aiving suffici~nt which was not the purpose wben it was teturn for their production. I have seen taken over from the management. two major sugar industries in Kerala-one in my constituency, Travancore Sugar Mills, Since the sugar industry is one of the most Tiruvella and the other Chittoor Sugar important industries, which produces an Mills, Pallhat. Both these mills are facinl essential commodity. it should be nationali· very big crisis because the, are not gettinl sed. When the management of these units sufficient quantity of molasses and whatever was taken over, it was felt tbat the ultimate quantity they are getting is being allotted to decision would be to nationalise them. But them from U.P. though it is available in the Minister intends otherwise. Karnataka or in Maharashtra. So, the Government has no uniform economic The main reason for the sickness of these pOlicy to safeguard tbe interests of the mills is bad management. The managements workers. That is why I say that the agricul. are inefficient and sometimes corrupt. The turists as well as tbe workers connected with owners of the mills never provided proper this industry are facing problems. When management. Whenever the Managin~ the Government wants the period to be Director or tbe management found a down­ extended by one year more, it should at ward trend in the profitability of an under­ least take necessary steps to see that the taking, they generally went in for some interests of both the workers and other business. In other words, tbey the agriculturists connected with tbis always tried to transfer the funds from one industry are properly safeguarded. I business to another. would like to point out tbat instead of tbe management being in the Further, there was no attempt at moderni­ bands of bureaucrats who are not aware of sation of the mills. Tbese mill s were run the style of functioning of the industry and with old and outdated machinery, which the agricultural sector, it may be better to could not ensure profits. Witbout moderni­ set up a forum where the representatives of sation, none of the mills can be run profita­ both the workers and the agriculturists are bly, nor could the mills attain economic tbere who may formu1ate a coordinated viability. This modernisation can be effected policy for industry and where the interests only when the mills are under the control of of both the workers and the agriculturists the Government. can be properly safeguarded. Besides tbat, the sugar mills have to SHR) R P. DAS (Krishnagar): Sir, this establish industries for the by-proc'ucts. BiIJ has been brought to extend tbe period Without the establishment of the industriec; of take-over of the management of sugar for the by-products, these mills cannot be undertakings from six to seven years and for run at a profit. framing new rules and modalities. I do not suppan the crucial statement of the Minister It is also noticed that the managements of in which he says tbat the mills would be tbese sick mills were maintaining very bad returned to tbe owners. The original Bill relations with labour and the farmers who had stated that the sole purpose of the Bill supply cane to the mills. was to reduce the outstandioa arrears of the eight sugar units and to see tbat tbe mills The owners of the mills never cared to ran continuously so tbat the interests of the pay a remunerative price for the sugarcane, workers and the employees and the farmers so that the farmen will be encouraged to were properly safeguarded and tbe sugar­ produce more cane. That is why tbere was consuminl public could also derive their a hue and cry for nationaJisation of these interests from the continuous runnina of the mills. \. mills from all round. I would like to know from the hon. Minister the total outstandina arrears due to the cane .rowers from tbe Now we find that tbe Ministc:r wants to mills and whether it bas been completely live bact all these bea~fits to the owneR, Uquidated. There may be arrears for the $lI8a, tJnJ~'1a/dJw8 MAGHA 9, J~ (S4K..4) ManQ# ~m~nt) (Taking o,er 0/ dmendIMnt Bill workers also in the form of wages, bonus or tbe stability of prices in the country. There­ other dues. Have those arrears been liquida­ fore, my primary submission would ted? be that we should realise that this industry should survive. progress and Finally, I woulj say that th~ cane prices prosper. Its maladies and the causes of its should be adjusted in such a fashion that the sickness have got to be tackled. For quite farmers get a remunerative price. At pre­ a long time we have been hearing complaints sent, tb~y are not paid a re'munerative price. from the farmers that they are not heiog Further. the yield from cane in this country paid sugar cane prices in time and further is low. compared to other countries. Also, that the sugar-cane prices are becoming the cane production in Bihar and UP is less more and more unremunerative to them. It compared to that of Andhra and Maha­ is unfortunate, that in this country whether rashtra. The cane product ion in West it is profitable or not the farmer is compel­ Bengal is far less than its production in led to go on growing his farminl products. other States. Therefore, I would point out That is his weakness. He cannot think in that for better cane production remunera­ other terms. If you apply cost benefit ratio tive cane price should i'e en~ured to the principle here, you wil1 find unhke other farmers. Without remunerative prices to the industries, the farmer has got no choice to farming communify, farming unit cannot be divert to other fields Therefore, this indus­ made viable. Therefore. in the end ) would try needs the utmost attention by the demand that the sick units should be Government. retained under Government control and finally they should be nationalised. Their My friend from the opposition rightly said nationaJisation should he the first step that it is well-known how the profits and towards nationalisation of the entire sugar capital of these ~ick industries have been industry. siphoned off. Today we know that (.00 textile mills are suffering because of its SHRI B. K. GADHVI CBanaskantha) : maladies and sickness. We know that Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to milHons of peopJe are out cf job and that support this measure. When we talk in they are hkeJy to be out of job because of this House or outside. we always talk in this malady Similarly, if you do not give terms of the farmers. It is a fact that our scientific attention to th~ sugar iodustry. the country is predominantly a farming country. fate of the farmers and workers in the sugar Eighty per cent of our populatio'l is depen­ factories would be in jeopardy. Therefore, dent on farms. Therefore', even in the my submission is that until we make tbe sphere of industries, particular1y those entire farming community stand on its own which arc agro-based, a scientific approach legs, our goal of making our economy seU­ is required. Up till now, it appears the trend reliant as early as possible win not be of the thinking for industries is mostly in achieved. favour of those which are not agro-based. In fact, most of our industries in India, whether Therefore, Sir, my submission is tbat they are sugar, textile or jute, are agro·ba~d today we export our sugar at a subsidised industries. But, particularly with regard to rate. People also say that sugar should be sugar industries you would appreciate that made avai1able at cheaper rates in cities. No majority of the farmers, whether they doubt, the consumers' interests have \0 be are in the North, or in the East, or tbe protected. South or in some parts of the West, or even in Central India, find that sugarcane grow­ The samething is happening even with ing is becoming more aud more unprofita. regard to milk industry, our dairy industry. ble. It is true that in some of the States The farmers and the women wba are rear· where there is canal irrigation or where ing animals do not let remunerative prices there is perennial cheap irrigation, people for milk and milk products. But we want do plouah sUlar. Sugar is one of our agri­ to provide them at cheaper rate becaule cultural produce which heavily supports our butter should be available at the table for Exchequer. Moreover, because of the sugar the morning breakfast. Gbee should be production we are in a position to maintain available at the diniol table at cbeaper ratc. 31 SUltu UnM,ta;d",1 JANUAR. Y 2t, 1985 Manat,n""t) (Taking over 0/ .,f""tul,.", Bill All tbose are the demands made by the vocal all tbese measures. Therefore, now tbe time people. And so far we are goinl on yielding has come to put some penal provisions in to tbe demand made only by tbe vocal regard to tbat. people and not by tbe people who are pers­ piri". and toilin. on the soil. So far. we Since ,ou bave rung the bell, I would not have not paid any attention to the difficul­ take much time. But I would once again ties of the farmers. I come from a village urge that tbe agro-based industries-not and I know tbe difficulties of villagers. There only sugar industry but all industrics­ is no 8-bour shift. There is no dearness should be given scientific attention and allowance witb the rise in the price index thorough examination so that our agricul­ level. Tbere is no harlal. Indian farmers ture can flourish, farmers as well as the canoot go on har/al. But does it mean tbat workers can benefit and we can alleviate the be should oot get even tbe remunerative problem of shortage of food grains and price for tbe products be provides-may be price-rise so rar as essential commodities are sugarcane, may be milk, may be foodgrain, concerned. may be castor oil, may be pulses or any­ thing. Now, tbe time has come wben we [Translation] have to pay attention to their needs and SHRI MOOL CHAND DAGA(Pali) : Mr. aspirations. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we bave been bearing for the last so many years that all sugar miUs in Of course, I welcome and support tbis tbe country would be nationalized but I under­ Bill. But I would say it will be in the strict relevance of the situation, if I impress upon stand that the Government bave so far taken no decision in the matter. We bave already the bon. Minister. and the Agricultural taken a decision and bave repeatedly stated Department in tbe Government of India to and debated in tbe House tbat sugar industry pay more attention to the difficulties of our should be nationalized but today when we farmers. Now tbe time has come that even go through tbe present Bill, we find tbat it with regard to agriculture and agro-based industries, a scientific approach and speaks only of the taking over of the mana­ gement. I think the Government should thorough examination has got to be done. take a decision to nationalize the entire Otberwise, tbe discontent and the poverty sugar industry in the country, wbich is con­ tbat you want to eradicate, you woulJ oot be in a position to eradicate. sistent with our policy so tbat cane-growers may get remunerative price for tbeir pro­ duce. the problems of workers are soJved In tbe sugar industry, modernisation is and t hey may devote themselves to their not tbere. Depreciation funds wbich are work. In tbe statement of objects and rea­ being collected are Dot used properly. sons of the Bill, it bas been stated tbat origi­ Siphoning out of funds, as already men­ naUy a period of three years was stipulated tioned, is done for tbe otber industries. And for tbe takeover of the manaement which ~ tbe farmers who sell tbe sugarcane are not was later extended to six years and now it paid in time. Wbat sbould we do with those is being exteoded by one year more. It industries? We will nationalise those indus­ further says- tries. They wish it. Sometimes the mana­ gement and tbe industry bebave only with [English] the motive that it should be nationalised so tbat tbey wculd go scot-free. I think, a "(or administrative and logistic con­ penal provision has lot to be inserted that if siderations. " anybody or the management deUberately renders any unit sick or non· viable, then ( Tranl/atlon] they sbould be punished. There should be recovery of arrean.. There should be penal Wbat are those considerations? Would provisions as well al a provision for the the Government tell us wbether after tbe recovery of loss sustained by the factory, expiry of seveD-year period, tbe Government from the ma03pment 1X0ple. But, as j t is, would restoro manaaeme.lt to them? What I am afraid the maoalement would 10 00 is tbe scientific base for cltendina time­ bcbavinl in a racaleitrant manner despite limit apin and aaain '1 What bas been 33 Sugar Und~l'laklng. MAGHA 9, 1906 (SAX,..) Manogemntt) 34 (Taking ove, 0/ Amendnunt Bill stated is not a base, but It reflects your ideo. sugarcane he grows and supplies to tbe logy. May 1 also know the extent of invest­ sugar millfl. Ifhe fails to pay Government ment, that the Government bas made intbose dues. be it land revenue or bank Joans, bis industries for which you propose to extend belongings are attached and he is put be­ the time·limit? What are the figures of hind the bar&. What sort of law is tbis? I profit earned or loss incurred by the would request that the provisions of the Government after such investment? Wha t Sugarcane Purchase Act should be enforced is the amount that has been earned by saJe stnct Iy . The sugarcane growers should be of sugar and what is the number of machi· paid interest by the sugar mins on the nes purchased with that money? What is arrears whicb run into billion, of rupees. I their financial position at present? cannot think of any department where payment is not made for the goods supplied. May I also know from the hone Minister It is only this unfortunate sugarcane grower. whether the workers hsve betn paid bonus who toils for growing sugarcane and as per the labour laws in tbe Sugar indus· supplies it to the miHs and then waits tries under Government management ard helplcssly for years for his dues. if so, tbe numtcr of persons paid bonus? What means are being adopted to improve Last year. the dues ran into hundreds of the condition of agriculturallabourers?What crores of rupees in Uttar Pradesh and the wages are being paid to agricultural labou­ Government of India had to advance loan rers working In sugar industry and what is and the State Government bad to give the minimum wage? I want this informa­ about Rs. 70 crores as grant to the Mills. tion about UP, Madbya Prade~h and Why are the public as well as private sector Rajasthan I understand that they do not factories of Uttar Pradesh in North India in even implement the provisions of Minimum bad shape ? I would hke to be enlightened Wages Act. They do not pay bonus also. whether even a single factory is not in the We want that the Government shculd red? SIr, there are many types of factories; nationalize the entire sugar industry. This we have mills in the private sector; some will benefit the workers. It would be are corporation mills ; some co-operative better if we proceed in this direction. mills and there is one mill named Kanpor Sugar-workers Limited mill also in which SHRI RAM NAGINA MISHRA Government have 4M per cent shares and (Salempur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I others 52 per cent. The condition of this ri<'e to support tbis Bill. I would, however, concern is such that dues amounting to like to draw tf'le attettion of the hon. Rs 15 crores are outstanding against it in Minister to the prob1ems being faced by the Uttar Pradesh only. Recently, (our sugarcane-growers in the country. factories were not paying a sum of Rs. ~-l/4 crores on account of cost of sugarcane. Laws have been formulated on the sub­ The Government of I ndia also refused to ject before also. There is a Sugarcane pay, and a lot of efforts had to be made to Purchase Act also which Inter alIa provides clear this amount of 4-1/4 crore. I, there­ that if a sugarcane grower supplies sugar­ fore, think that this factory is neither in cane to the sugar md) and tbe mill fails to the public sector nor in private sector. It make payment therefor within 15 days, it is a new kind of factory. would be liable to pay interest to him. I know about Uttar Pradesh. Not millions but hundreds of croret of rupees of sugar­ I would request tbe bon. Minister to cane growers are outstanding there. I want order an enquiry into tbe working of tbe 6 to know from the hone Minister whetber he factories of Kanpur Sugar Works Limited­ is aware of a single in,tance where even a three in Bihar and three in Uttar Pradesb. penny had ever been paid to the sugarcane­ None of these factories is such as may not growers on account of interest? It bas owe crores or rupees. Wben tbe arrears never been paid. wjlJ mount to such an extent tbat tbe Government will not be able to aet even the The position i. tbat the sUlareaDe sum equivalent to the cost of a Dut, tben the Il'0wer is Dot paid for yean to,ctbor lor the Oovernmoot will say tbat tbe)' are tatiD, it 35 Sugar Undertakings JANUAR Y 29, 1985 Management) 36 (Taking ovtr 0/ dme"dment Bill over. I would like to suggest that when the wise, all the factories in North India would Government already have 48 per cent shares, be closed down. I want that a survey should they should acquue 2 to 3 per ~ent more be conducted because the position of tbe shares and take it over. There are officers factories in North India is deteriorating con­ there who are drawing a a:onthly salary of stantly. The position of such factories in Rs. a to 9 thousand. I would hke to submit South India is better because of better k'eco­ that certain officers there had been drawing very factor, hi,her producfion and lower salaries on two posts while the ruJe is that cost of production. There arc co-operative Government Officer cannot draw salary on factories there and the growers also get two posts. And when the Government of bonus. The position in North India is just India raised an objection, their designations tbe reverse. The cost of production is were changed lind their pay was raised by hilher, recovery percentage is lower and the Rs. 1·)/2 thousand and now they are being canellower is not paid remunerative price. paid Rs. 9-1/2 thousand while the condition Therefore, the gro\\ers have stopped cultiva­ of the factof)' has been worsening. tion of sugarcane. I would say that it is because of non- payment of ducs that the As regards the position of sugarcane, production of sugarcane and su.ar in North there are thousands of cane-crushers in India has gone down even though half of Uttar Pradesh, particularly in the \\'estern the sugar factories in the country are in Uttar Pradesh, which are paying lower Uttar Pradesh and Blhar. Therefore, I orice to the growers than that paid by sugar would like to request that with a view to factories and tbe recovery is also lower save sugar iactories of North India, small \\ohich amounts to national Joss. Some units wit h outdated machinery and lower re­ rules should be framed to ensure that, as in covery should be modernised and at the same the case of sugar mills, sugarcane should be time Government should state clearly whether suppJied to the cane-crushers on!y througb their policy is to nationalise these factories "t sugar cane growers unions and the ,rowers they are again~t nationalisation. The advantage should he paid at a rate not Jess than the would be that mill owners would instal new rate being paid by the sugar factories. A machinery and modernise their mills. What study should also be conducted to mate happer s is that when the miJIs are worn out, thec;e cane-crushers viable. Suitable mea­ they request the Government for take-over !\ures should be adopted to ensure (bat they and the Government takes them over. We do not incur loss and run smoothly, sugar have three mills which are running in the cane-growers get remunerative price and Central Sector. The Government's poJicy national loss being incurred is aJso made up. is that they take over mWs when these are in These measures should be enforced strictly. the red and once they start looking up, their The sugarcane grower must ,et his money manalement i~ handed back. I think it is a policy of wasteful expenditure Therefore, within I S to 20 days or a month after the I would like the Government to declare supply has been made. clearly whether they want \0 nationalise them and If so, they sh('uJd do it, A cootro­ I come from Uttar Pradesh. I am a veny bas been goir.g on for long should sugarcane gro\\er m)self. I can tell you It end. In my opinion, Government should tbat due to non-pa)rnent or their dues in go in for nalionalisation of all those small time. the gro\\ers have to suffer untold units which are in bad shape and in tbe woes. 1 hey have to mortgage their sugar­ red, and all the existing rules should be cane receipts on a very prohibitive rate of enforced strictly aDd vigorously. Wit h these 1 S per cent interest to meet their pressing words, J support this BiJI. needs. such as paying of fees of their wards or meeting expenditure in connection wjth SHRI PRAKASH V. PATIL (Sangli): marriaae ceremonies. Sometimes, t hey can­ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, references have not arrange mone) for meeting their needs been made about sugar factories in Mahara­ even with tbese receipts and are put to shtra. These factories are runniDS very well avoidable bar~hips. There should be strict and recovery is"also very good which has orders tbat tbe .rower be paid for tbe liven a fillip to the' sugar industry there. toppl), 01 .uprcanc immediate')'_ Odler- About a question just rQised by hone Member, 37 Sugar Undertakings MAGHA 9,1906 (SAKA) ManagnMnt) 38 (Taking over 0/ Amendment Bill

I want to say that in the beginning we had 12.00 IIrs. taken 5 to 6 crores of rupees from Govern­ ment but within a short span of 15 to 16 even tb~ workers.. a good lot of them are on starvatIon for want of work and tbe emplo- years, we have deposited with Government 100 crores of rupees by way of revenue. yees- even the skilled people were not put to use for the last couple of years. A This is the position. good amount or public money is being lent to this big unit only with tbe impression that As (ar as Uttar Pradesh is concerned, the the management will be able to create more sugar industry there is not on sound footing employment and improve the production because of poor recover) factor and out­ and al1 that is in vain. I understand that dated machinery and you milY go on in­ some vested interests connected with the vesting any amount-we know you are factory are coming in the way of taking making investment WIth a view to generate over of the unit. It would be extremely employment-mill owners cannot manage advisable and it is in the interest of the them properly and earn profit under these public that this particular unit also must be circumstances. Therefore, a Committee included in the units proposed to be taken should be appointed to ensure proper over by the Government and it should be management, some sort of co-operatives taken over inmediately. should be enco::1raged in place of private ownership in the interest of their proper management or they should be nationalised One good thing I understand is that a lot of machinery installed in the factory is of to make tbem profit-earnjng units. This win also ensure profit to growers. As some the latest technology. Particularly, this hone Member [has said, some other machinery which could be put to optimum factories should be set up there. They would use, if it is to be kept idle, for some time. for work better there. You should also think some years, tben this also may become a of affecting certain modifications in those junk causing great loss to the people in the mills which do not work profitably. Some area and also to the nation at large. So I request this unit also to be included along new factories should be set up there keeping in view tbe abundant supply of water. Some with the other undertakings. other type of industry, such as tobacco, all, etc. should be considered for being set SURI B. B. RAMAIAH up in the co-operative sector because it is (Eluru): I want generally to speak on the impossible to earn profit from sugar indus.. principle of sugar industry also and not try due to poor recovery. about any particular undertaking only. As our friends on botb sides of tbe House men­ [English] tioned about tbe ChaJlapaUi Sugars in Andhra Pradesh, this is a very important SHRI K.S. RAO (Machilipatnam) : Sir, unit and that should be included in tbe Bill while supporting the Sugar Undertakings and it should also be taken over. (Taking Over of t.fanagement) Amendment Bill, I wj~h to mention about one factory in The sugar industry in India three years Andbra Pradesh where crores of rupees have back produced more than 8 million tonDes been invested -ChallapalH Sugar in Krishna of sugar and now it bas come down to 8S District. It is unfortunate that it has be .. come sick for tbe last more than two years, low as 6 minion tonnes. We were exporters a few years and a couple of crOles of rupees are to be onI,. back but this year we had paid by the milJowners to the )oca) farmers. to import a huge quantity of sugar because This is causing a great bards hip to the of our sugar policy. farmers whose resources are very meagre and who bad bigh hopes on tbis factory. No As our friends on both sides mentioned, action has been taken to take over this mUI the price of sugar cane is not properly by the Government. I am sorry to find remunerative in sp"e of the Agricultural tbat this undertSlking is not included in the Prices Commission recommendinl prices proposed units to be taken over by the takina into consideration the bask aspects Government. Here Dot only are the far­ like tbe price structure and various other mers sufferin, very heavily, but costs. It is repeatedl)' JDCDtioned that tho 39 Sligar Undertakings JANUARY 29, 1985 Managtment) 40 (Taking oyer of Amendment Bill

Government win be able to announce the With these words, I request the govern­ sugar cane price at least one year ahead so ment to take more interest in the sugar that the farmer should be able to decide industry and take a policy decision as early what is the remunerative price and what as possible. crop he should plant. In spite of discussing this policy for so m'lny years and repeatedly SHRI R.S. MANE (lchalkaranji): Mr. laying stress on it, even thie; year the sugar DeputycSpeaker, Sir, I am supporting nei­ cane price W.1S n.:>t announced even at the ther the nationalisation of the sugar start of the sug'ir cane crushi ng season. factories nor the private sector industries. I That puts the farmers in a c01'lfusing st~~ge want that all sugar factories should be and our sugar pro~uctjon is going ('own in brought in the coopefative infra-structure. spite of our capacitv and dncienc),. As I Wherever there is 00 possibility to run the mentioned earlier, we h:lve to incur a lot of factories in cooper~tive infra structur~ they expendIture of foreign excbange for import ,hould be taken over by the Government of of SU2ar-not encouraging our own industry, India but remunerative prices must be given not encouraging our own farmers. It is a to the farmers. most unfortun~~te thing and this is a pohcy matter the Government has to c:Jnsider and Secondly, Sift I would like to say that deal with. prices :-hould be paid in one lot at a time. At present they are paying in two-three lots. As some of our friends have mentioned, It is an undesirable practice and not condu­ we have to see what is the performance in cive to the interests of sugar producers. the factory being taken over, whether they will he a' Ie to give efficient management My next point is that modernisJtjon and and whether they will be able to modernise good management are the basic needs of this it, whether they will be able to run it up to industry, then there is a fllW in the issue of the mark, whether th~y have got enough licences. I want wherever there is a bumper technolC'gy and scientific m:lnagement - all ~ugar crop, ~uffi~ient irrigation potentiality these have to be looked into. and better recovery licences should be issued What is going to h.lrpen to this industry? liberally irrespective of the guidelines. This is one of the basic agro-based indus­ Guidelines have got to be revised. I would tries and it is going on for a long time. I aJso like to submit that one expert from the may assure you on behalf of tbe technicians sugar growers should be taken on the Agri­ and scientisfs tbJt we have got enough ta!ent cultural Prices Commission. Sugar industry in our country. It is a policy matter in the is a very important industry and I would hands of the Government. I f they take the like to suggest to the hon. Minister, Rao p<;>licy decision, we can not vnly increase our Birendra Singh to arpoint a study team or a production to 8 million tonnes and we Commi~sjon to examine the new sugar would have reached by now nlore than; 0 policy. Till now the policy of the sugar ~il1ion tonnes. Rut this i~ a policy matter industry is being implemented on trial and to be considered by tbe Government. error oasis. This is not desirable. A Simply tC:tkjng over the units will not do. J t scientific and modern study of this industry should improve the efficiency, the manage.. has got to be made. ment and the t'!chnique and also give a remunerative sugar cane price. Sugar is SARI NISSANKARA RAO VENKATA. produced in the farm and unless the Govern­ RATNAM (Tenali): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, ment is able:! to give a remunerative price, Sir, as 'ar as taking over the sugar industry sugar cannot be proJu~ed. The factory can is concerned I want to draw the attention of only extract it. They will recover the sugar the Central Government to one particular available in the cane. So the Government case in Anchra Pradesh. ChaJlapaUi sugar should see that the (armer is encouraged to factory is one of the renowned sugar (actory produce better varieties of cane. Better in Andhra. It is the fecond !eason since it prices should be given. Then only you cal) has been closed. This factory has to pay improve our lugar iDdustry and you can arrears of Rs. 1.S crores and also RI. 50 blve a benet performance. lakhs are due to tbe workers. It is a fit case Al Sugar Und.'lak{n,~ MAGHA 9, 1906 (SAKA) Management) 42 (Takl", over 0/ Amtndmtnt Bill for the Central Government to take over ones and tbe Government should Jive all this factory tbereby we will be saving the pOSSible assistance for such replacements. rights of the w'lrkers and also the industry in that area. People in that area bave Another important point that I want to appeared to the State Government to see bring to the notice is that wherever the sugar that this factory is not purchased by private factories have by-product units, such as management, though the private manage­ alcohol factory or paper factory, in their ment is able to come to their rescue. It is Vicinity they alway~ earn profit but where Dot that the Government IS not in a position such arrangements do not t.xist or where the to take over the unu. So, I would request waste has to be moved to distant places, the the hon Minister for Agriculture kindly to mills are deprived of this profit because of consider taking over the unit by the Central the transportation cost. I would, therefore, Government. It is a most befitting case for suggest that eve} y ~ugar factory should have the Central Government to take over its by-product units nearby. This will ensure Cbellapalli ,ug:u unit. more profits as well as remunerative price to farmers. Some of my colleagues have [Tran~/Qllon] suggested increased price for sugarcane. I fully support their suggestion but I would SHRI BANWARI LAL PUROHIT like the Government to consider the measures (Naspur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise which will enable the factories to give to support the Bill introduced by the enhanced price to the farmers for their hon. Mic ister in the House. However, I sugarcane. would like to submit that some radJcal cbanges are required to be made in the sugar The sugar being distributed by Govern­ policy in view of the fact that while the ment at fair pnc. through pubhc dlstnbu.. prices of sugar fluctuate very frequently, the tion system j~ not reachmg the consumers. prices of sugarcane r~main fixed. I fall to Several black marketeers take undue advan.. understand as to why It happens Why the tage of it and the sugar does not reach the prices of sugar fluctuate when the prices of consumers. 1 hiS should also be looked Sugarcane are filtej This needs serious i'lto. The Government should utjlise one consideration. year time available to it for making radical changes in the sugar policy 3nd make such We hav~ also seen that the problem has arrangements as wouJd ensure that not only not been resolved even after bringing the the conSUIT.ers get sugar at fair price but the sugar factories under the cooperative sector. farmers also get remunerative price for tbeir The cooperative sugar factories havmg effi· sugarcane. Hoping that right policy will cient management arc working well but in soon be formulated by tbe Government, I the factories where the management is not once again extend m}' support for this Bill. good t the farmers are foot getting due bene­ fits because office· bearers are filling their own pockets. This should also be given a SHRI ANOOPCHAND SHAH (Bombay serious thought. North): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Bm introduced in the House to It has also been observed that many sugar provide for tbe takeover of management of min~ are incurring 'osses. The point is why sugar undertakings, but in view of our expe­ are they incurring losses? I feel that their rience of Maharashtra, I would like to say a modernisation is imperative. We will have few words. Whenever any industry is in dim­ to ensure tbat the yield does Dot faU short. ct.Jty, the only ~olution that is put forth is Otberwj_', we shall not be able to provide nationa lisat ion. Is nationalisation the only remunerative prices to tho farmers. The remedy for all the ills an industry suffers outmoded and obsolete machines should be from '1 Sugar factories are running effi· repraced by modern machines. I would ciently in Maharasbtra on cooperative basis SUlaest tbat a survey of an the SUlar and if tbey are kept away from politics, factories be conducted and wherever old the, will continuo to work efficiently. But macbines, responsible for causina losses, are the people at the helm speak in two veiDS. fouod. tbey sbould be replaced by modern ;'urban arca. they will advocate low price 43 Sugar Untk,talcillg, JANUARY 29, 1985 Ma"ag~mmt) 44 (Takinl over 0/ Amendment Bill

for sugar and among cane-growers they will allotted to me is only five minutes. I would plead for remunerative price for their pro­ like to draw the attention of the hone duce and in factory areas they will demand Minister to a few points. enhanced wages for workers. We do agree that a cane-grower should get good return In the sugar· industry-based economy in for the hard work he puts in and a worker N<'rth India, particularly in U.P. and Bihar, should also not be deprived of the justified people mainly depend upon sugarcane as a wages but at the same time we cannot say cash crop. Therefore, while formulating any tbat sugar should be made a'!aiJable at the policy in this regard, this fact should be kept rate of Rs. 2.50 per kg. at which it was be­ in view. The sugar factories of North India iDI sold durin, Janata regime-. We an had are facing all sorts of problems and jf pro­ seen the results of this the following year. per arrangements are not made to bring Since the cane-growers did not get remunera­ about improvements in the sugar factories, tive price for their produce, they reduced the economy of North India would be in tbe sugarcane cultivation area with the shambles. Most of the sugar factories of result that there was considerable fan in North India were set up in the decade bet­ production. I would, therefore, like to sub­ ween 1930 and 1940 and since then techno­ mit that merely by foIJowina the policy of logy has advanced considerably. The entire ntitionalisation we cannot Jive a better funds of Government are simply being dum­ management or increase production in those ped in the factories that are being taken factories which are showing good results over. I say so because these funds are not under cooperative sector. In view of our being utilised as prudently as tbey should experience of textile industry we should pro­ have been. I would cite an example in this ceed with utmost caution. I would, there­ regard. fore, submit that a decision should be taken as soon as possible as to the basis on which There is a sugar factory at Siswa Bazar in we propose to run this industry. If the Gorakhpur. The cwner turned the factory entire sugar industry of the nation is to be into a sick mill and when the Government nationalised, then a decision in this respect tried to take it over, the owner remained will have to be taken at the earliest. Leaving silent but later involved the Government in aside the factories that are being run on litigation. The Government have paid the cooperative basis, the otfier factories have arrears amounting to about Rs. 2 crores and been brought to such a state that in case the 32 lakhs to the farmers but there is no hope Government takes them ovec they would be of its beina commissioned this year also. in difficulty. This is only one example which I have quo­ ted, but you will find hundreds of sucb While supporting this Bill, I would only examples where huge funds of Government submit that we sbould formulate a sound are beiDg wasted. policy for the entire nation. If some sugar mil!! are not running as efficiently in certain I, therefore, request the hone Minister areas as they are running in cooperative that while taking over the factories, efforts sector and tbe Cine-growers are not being should also be made to modernise them. paid remunerative prices and the workers Some amount should be earmarked for the their wages, and the concerned people or modernisation of the factories that have workers are willing to run them on coopera­ been takeD over aDd new machines be ins­ tive basis, such an arrangement needs to be talled in two or more sugar factories each given preference. year. The modernisation of the remaining SUlar mills should be accordingly carried on I conclude my speech with tbe hope that every year. In thi5 way tbe lot of labourers tbe bon. Minister will consider the points and cane-growers can be improved with the made by me. money tbat Government iDVest ;n these factories. SHRI MADAN PANDEY (Oorakhpur) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am Jl'8teful to Sir, I would Uke to draw your attention to you that you havo liven me an opponunity one more point. At preseot lupr factories to speak lor tbe first time. Since the time ill U. P. are ronnin, io lour sectors-private 45 Sugar Undertakln,. MAG HA 29, 1906 (SA KA) ManagelMnt) 46 (Taking 0." 0/ Amendment Bill

sector. cooperative sector. State sector and losses, ~bou)d be taken over by tbe Govern- Central sector. I suglest reduction in the ment, becau~e the Government wants to number of these sectors. The factories runn­ look after the economy from the command­ iDg in Stale and Central sectors maintaining ing heights. Government wants to nationa­ se)arate systems should be brought under lise the banks with a view to organise the ODe sector either State sector or Central sec­ economy on a more sound footing. There· tor_, This win bring down the losses being fore. there is a necessity to take over tbis suffered due to dual management. This is factory because it has been very badJy my suggestion. managed. I request the bon. Minister to kindly consider tbis and I would definitely J would also like to suggest to the hone furnish him with fun her details regarding Minister that whiJe taking over a sugar this matter. factory t necessary provisions should also be made to clear the dues of the worker. We The second point which I would like to are not concerned whether the dues are make is that sugar industry per Je is running cleared by the owner or by the Government. into a big problem You find that the pric­ The workers must be paid their dues. There ing is very unremunerative. Nevertheless f are two factories in U P.. namely, Siswa there is a certain urban subsidy that has to Bazar and Ghuahali. which still owe lakhs be given. In urban areas, sugar bas to be of rupees to the workers on account of their subsidised. Therefore, tbe only av:nue left ,ratuityand provident fund. The workers is to see that the by- products of sugar are are suffering bec3use of mismanagement priced In such a way that sugar pricing is on tbe part of the owrers. The done on a more rational basis. Again, ex­ Government should make such an arrange.. ports of sugar neeti not help us a lot because ment that the provident fund amount of the the price in the international market i~ very workers deposited with tbe owners is given Jow. So, taki'1g into consideration the bad back to the workers at the time of the take· economics of rUDDing the sugar factories, over of a factory 50 tbat the WOf kers may taking iDtO cOD"ideration the internat;onal fee) that tbey t)() have been benefited with position and taking into consideration the the takeover of the factory by the Govern­ fact that sugar industry provides a Jot of ment. The Government should make employment and a number of families are immediate arrangements to ensure payment dependent on sugar factories, I would of arrears of gratuity, provident fund and request the hon. Minister to consider taking wages etc. due to the workers. This will over of these factories for running them on go a Jong way in removing the difficulties of scientific Jines. the workers. [T, anslatlon] With these words, I support the Bill and tbank the bOD. Minister. SHRI MURLIDHAR MANE (Nasik) J Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, I support the [English] Bill. In Maharashtra, sugar factories in the cooperative sector are running efficiently. SHRf ANANDA GAJAPATHI The Central Government have sugested RAJU (Bobbili) Mr. Deputy- that those sugar factories in the Private Speaker, Sir, I rise today to speak on the Sector, which are not working efficientJy, Suaar Undertakings Amendment BIn. I should be brought under the co-operative would like to make only two points. sector. I would like to draw your attention

towards one th:ng, i.e' t when the stock of There is a sugar factory . in my constitu.. the sugar factories was weighed, it was round ency BobbiU.. whicb bas been running on short with the result that the farmers were very unsound lines for the last s~veral yeare.. paid less. The farmers. in turn, started sow­ After the Nizam Sugar Factory took it over, ing sugarcane in lesser area and factories the workin, of this undertakiDI turned out started letting lesser quantity of suaarcane . to be a little better. And therefore, I request which resulted in losses to tbe factories. that all 'U18r uadertakinas. in view of the bact economics and In view of tbe mouotlq Tbe biacst hiadcrcocc in the way of tba 47 Sugar Und~rtaklngs JANUARY 29, 1985 Managtmtnt) 48 (Taki"g over 01 Amendm~nt Bill

farmers in increasing production of sugar­ by methods which are not so desirable. At cane is the scarcity of water. If water is the same time some old mills run nto made available in sufficient quantity, pro­ genuine difficulties and we do not want that duction of sugarcane can be increased to a the farmers of those areas who cannot great extent. The prices of the fertilisers immediately switch over from one pattern of used by tbe farmers sh\)uJd be reduced. This cultivation to another should suffer. We try aspect should be given a serious thought. to help the industry as well as the farmers and workers through this measure. Besides, sugar factories had been asked to maintain a buffer stock but the insurance claim and subsidy which become due to Hon. Members from both sides have poin­ them have Dot been paid to them so far by ted out several difficult ies. Sir, I admit that tbe Central Government. If that amount is this temporary take-over is no remedy for released immediately, that will help the bringing back to permanent health these sugar factory mlnagements in tiding over mills. Ultimately the Government either has the financial difficulties. So, this work is to think of nationalisation or of putting requirej to be done soon. pressure on the managements to modernise these miJJs. With these words, I support the Bill and thank you for giving me time to speak. PROF. N.G. RANGA (Guntur) : Change the management. [ English] THE MINISTER OF FOOD AND RAO BIRENDRA SINGH: The ques­ CIVIL SUPPLIES (RAO BIRENDRA tion of nationalisation has been raised in SINGH): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, I am this House from time to time. Even today, thankful to the hone members opposite and some of my friends have ~uggested that we should resort to nationalisation of sugar also on this ~ide of the House for participat­ industry. One hon. Member Shri Mane ing in the debate on this very simple amend­ suggested setting up of a commission to ing measure that I have put before the evolve a long-term policy fur sugar. All I House. They have all supported the amend­ can say at the moment is that nationalisa­ ing Bill for increasing the time of take-over tion of sugar industry cannot be thought of of sugar mills from 6 years to 7 years. At the in isolation from the policy as regards the same time, tbey have brought into focus the problems faced by the farmers, the workers other sectors of industries. We have to take one view and we have opted for a mlxe1 and the factories in general. This is a very economy; public sector as well as private simple measure. Six year period elapsed in sector. And, I am not in a position to say November last. We have taken over 8 mills that nationalisation even if Government in the year 1978-79, soon after the main Act was passed by the Parliament. The limited thinks of it will solve the problem. Because object of this amending Bill is to gain more we know that our experience with the pubhc time, to think how the factories that govern­ sector also is not very happy. Everybody ment has been managing for the last 6 years will admit it. Therefore, we have to try and or so could be handed over to the owners, to help the industry wherever possible bring­ the erstwhile managements, whether co-ope­ ing in public 5ector. That is what we are rative or private and the future of the doing. workers and the cane growers could aJso be ensured simultaneously; at the same time, As regards sugar industry we are glVlDg they could guard against, if possible, these preference to cooperatives. In the matter mills going sick again. of licensing of new mills tbey will be under the cooperatives as far as possible. If in an Tbi~ Act is a sort of a deterrent against area where no cooperative societies are set mins going sick by various methods. Some up or public sector comes up but there is of them are fraudulent methods, I do not enough sugarcane then only we agree to new hesitate in saying, as several of my friends licences to be given to private sector. have pointed out. There is leakage of revenues, there is manipulation of accounts Now, bon. Members win appreciate that and Jostes are shown in tbe balance-sheets tbe cooperative sector has done very wtll 10 49 Suga, Untk"aklngl MAGHA 9, 1906 (SAK.f) ManagslMnt) so (Taking OF" 0/ Amendment Bill

the matter of sugar production. More tban is taken over by the Government as levy fifty per cent of our sugar production comes sugar. This is one of the factors that go into from cooperatives. We heard a short whIle the cost. This 65 per cent is distributed ago one bon. Member from Maharashtra through the public distribution system at (' asking for oationalisation, another Member fixed price of Rs. 4/·. 3S per cent is for free was opposing natioDalisation. He is also sale. We try and control the price in free from Mahatashtra. I do not know how these sale also by applying the mechanism of two v;ews can be reconciled. We have to see release from month to month so that if the that the farmers get remunerative prices. We prices tend to go high, then more sugar is also agree that there should be a long-term released from the factory. We try to see policy on sugar. that the dlff~rence between tbe price of levy sugar that goes through the public distribu­ tion system and the price in the free market SHRI B. K. GAUHVI does not become very big. On account of ( Banaskantba) We also oppose hospitali- certain measures that we have taken in the sation. past few days to try and limit the stock, to monitor in a better way the reJease of sugar from the factories and sale by the RAO BIRENDRA SINOH: Sometimes stockists, better supervision of the fair price it becomes necessary. Sir, there have been shops through the State Governments-I difficulties created on account of wide have written to the Chief Ministers and I am fluctuations in sugar production from )'ear trying to enforce the decisions of the to year. We have seen sbortages for years In Government-results have accrued and pri. the past. We have also seen times of glut. ces are not rising. They have come down After the period of Janata rule, the SUl;ar slightly. We try to maintain the prices in the production had come down to only 38 lakh free market at a reasonable level. toqoes from a previous high production of more than 64 lakh tonnes. Within two yea[sJ The rea) problem with the sugar industry on account of the policies pursued to give is that most of the mills that go sick are remunerative prices to farmers and to help very old. Unless they are modernised, it will the industry to modernlse~ the production not be very profitable for the owners to run came up to 84 Jakh tonnes in the year j 98.- them like this For that we provide financial 82. That was the highest production in any assistance. We have the Sugar Develop­ countr) in the world. In the y~ar after that ment Fund. Unfortunately, tbe mills have also it .vas 82 Jakh tonnes But then agajn not taken full advantage of these facilities. within a year, it came down to only 591akh Sometimes probably they deliberately allow tonnes. This year we hope to produce bet­ the mills to go sick if they do not find that ween 65 to 70 lakh tonnes. I would not they are very profitable. I would not accept commit myself at thiS stage bec~use the tbe suggestion that sugar Industry does Dot season is on. By 7th January the sugar make any profits and that all mills are run­ production was two lakh tonnes over and ning at a Joss. If that were so, there will be above the last year's production during the no rush for new licences for which people same period. The trend is good. are coming forward everyday, even from the same area also. People want to set up more and more mills. If they were not profitable, Members have complained that farmers why should there be appHcations for more are not getting remunerative prices. They licences from -almost all over the country, bave quoted the figure of Rs. 14/- that is from the cooperative sector and from the taken into account as a statutory minimum private sectort for new mills and for expan­ price accepted by the Government on the sion of the capacity of the existing mills? recommendation of the A.P.C. in the earlier If they want to expand the capacity, that current year. There was a slight deviation means they are making profits and tbey last year. But Rs. 14/- is not the price to want to make more profit by expanding their be paid to the sugarcane growers. This. is capacity beca~se it becomes more econcmi.. only relevant for fixing the price of levy cal to run a larser mill. Therefore, I would sugar for tbe mills. 65 pet cent of the sugar 10 to the extent of saying that it is abso- 51 Sugar Untkrtalcllt6s JANUARY 29. 1985 Mtlftotem,,,, ) (Taking -ov~, of Am~"dmt"t Bill

lute)y necessary that we look·closely into the whole country. We are at present not con­ economics of these mills. cerned with the ent ire number or 323 odd mills, we are ooly talking about the ei.ht taken·over mills. But I can say that, PROF. N.G. RANOA: What about commission ? according to information tbat I have with me, tbe arrears were reduced last year and came to only Rs. 14 crores and RAO BIRENDRA SINGH: I do not something for the whole country. That was think commission would help because only J.3 per cent of the total price paid for Government bas plenty of powers given by sugarcane. which is not a very big percen­ this Parliament and we can take steps to tage, as compared to earlier periods. see thIt accounts are properly maintained, Government tries to see tbat arrears do not and tbe mins try and modernise their machi­ accumulate. But I would like to empbasize nery a s soon as possible. that the initiative in thiS must come from the States. We have beard the Members asking for certain information which would not be very Some hon. Members have demanded that relevant on this occasion. Shri Mool Chand certain sick mills, hke CbeJlapalli in Aodhra, Daga wanted to know what wages were paid some io Kerala, UP and Bihar sbould be in each mill and what bonu. was paid by taken over. We do not want tbat tbe States each mill. All I can say is that wag?s are should be completely absolved of tbe res­ paid according to the Acts pievaJent in diffe­ ponsibility in the mauer. The States also rent States. Bonus is also paid accordmg to have power to take over the mills. lhey rules. If tbe mills do not make any profit, can take them over temporarily or nationalise tbem. UP and Bibar have taken 8.33 per cent is paid as minimum bonus. But over a number 0 f mills. Some of tbe States during tbe years when some of tbese eight have set up corporations. The Stat es should taken-over mi:ls made profits, bonus was paid at a higber rate as per ru1es. I hope first take steps to see that the sugar industry that will sathfy Shri Daga. But it remains a in their respective States is managed pro­ fact that at present all these eight taken over perfy. mills are running at a loss. There is demand for nationalisation. Central [ Translatioll] Government, so far as our poiicyi goes, is SHRI RAM NAGINA MISHRA not finding it possible or practical to take (Salempur): In ({anpur Sugar Works Ltd. over mills in different parts of the country you bave 48 per cent sbares. and run them aod manage them efficiently from DeJbi because we have seen tbat, RAO BJRENDRA SINGH: Not sbares. whether it is industry or agriculture It might be an advance and it will be or any other business. unless the recovered. people who have a stake in the ma~ter a~e ~n-the.spot supervising the ope­ [English] ratIons, It IS not possible alwa)s to run a business or a mill or a factory profitably. As I laid. tbe Central aovernment want But we had to take certain steps to take tbat tbe initiative must come first from the over these mills, to clear the arrears of the States. If tbe States want to take over the sugarcane growers, to clear the outstandi'18 sick mills, we shaJl belp tbem. We cannot dues .of tbe work.ers, aod I am happy to say ~o 00 addina to our responsibility. That •• wby we are tbiokin, returnin. even that In these taken· over miUs, all dues of the or past years bave been cleared. Dues for the these 8 mill., wbich we have taken over. We curreot season also, I hope, will be cJeared shall Dot be very williol to take over aoy beca~ the IeaSOn is staJJ on. There is Dumber of mills tbat tbe hOD. Mcmben ootblD8 outltandinl for the previous years. may like to suuest. They should fint put pressure on their State GovernmcDta. be­ cause tbe State Governments caD IUpcnlao Some hon. Members wanted to know tbe them better t as tbey are on tbe spot. The, .total arrears outstandinl at present for tbe have also aot all tbe powers. Su,., tlnde 'takln" MAGMA 9. 1906 (SA. If) Manogf me",) 54 (Taking over 0/ Amerdme"t [JIll

[Translation] with these powers, I hope the House will SHRI RAM NAGINA MISHRA: You give unanimou~ support to it. If in future said that Joan has been given. The loan any min needs to be taken over, and there has actually been given for making payment is no help forthcoming from any quarter, we of sugarcane dues. You have 48 per cent sti!l have powers under the Act, and we share therein. shall continue to enforce it. Instead of for six years, it will be for seven years. In [Engli h) case in future we find that it is necessary to take over any mill, we win take it over. RAO BIRENDRA SINGH: I will find out the position. Probably, tbey have some SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA textile units also. RAO Sir, I have given notice of Amendment. AN HON. MEMBER: Only sugar units.

RAO BIRENDRA SINGH: I will get the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You caD­ information and let the hon. Member not move it now. The Minister has finished his speech already. know later on the particulars.

But, as I said, all these things are not AN HON MEMBER. I would like to very relevant at this juncture. An the !'ame, ask one thing from the hone Minister. I am thankful to the hon. Members for Maharashtra sugar factories have made high-lighting some of the problems that the claims on account of the subsidy amount sugar industry is facing. and insurance for the buffer stock; but that has not been paid to them so far. PROF. N.G. RANOA: Kindly bring this to the notice or the State Govern­ RAO BIRENDRA SINGH: You write ments. to me and I will reply.

RAO BIRENDRA SINGH: I will do SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA that. RAO : Sir, I have already given the Amendment. It bad been liven on the We try to give a remunerative price. As 2tth. I was mentioning earher, Rs. 14 is not the price paid to the cane·gro\\ers. At present, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : We have on an average, they are getting Rs. 2l for aheady discussed this. There is no question sugarcane; some States are paying a little of it now. Please sit down. more, some a little less. These prices are fixed by the States, and not by the Centre. The question is : The Lentre fixes onb the statutory minimum price for sugarcane. "That the Bill further to amend the Sugar U ncertakiols \ Taking Over of It is for the States to see that the arrears Management) Act, 1978, as passed by are not allowed to accumulate. They have to take action against the erring mills. They Rajya Sabha, be taken into consi­ can bring it to the notice of the Central deration." Government only in such cases where they have no power in the matter. They have The motion waJ adopt~d. also to see tbat interest for overdues over 14 MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Tf\c House day's period is also paid by tbe mills. For will now take up clause by clause considera­ that, action has to be initiated by the State tion of the Bill. Government, and not the Central Govern.. mente The question is : Since bon. Members have already indica­ "That Clauses 2 aD d 3 stand part of ted that the Government should be armed the Bill." 5S Sugtr- Undertakings JANUARY 29. 1985 Gangtok Municipal 56 ( Taking avtr 0/ Corporation Management) (Amtr.dm,nt) Bill Amendment Bill

The rna lion" as adopted. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER Please sit down. Clauses 2 and 3 'H're added to the Bill. AN HON. MEMBER: Sir, I rhe on a point of order. Clause 1 was addtd '0 lhe Bill. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We have E"ac,'ng Formula taken up the next item. There is no point Amendment made: of order. Please sit down.

page I, line 1, for "Thirty· fifth" .,ubstitute SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA "Thirty-sixth" (I) RAO: I was trying to submit to you, but you did not allow me. (Rao Birendra Singh) AN HON. MEMBER: Let me raise a MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques­ point of order. During the course of the tion is : tbird reading, if the bon. Member wants to make a ShOft speech, he should be permit .. "That the Enacting FvrmuJa, as amended, ted to do that. It is not that since it is the stand part of tbe Bill " third reading, he should not be allowed.

The motion was adopttd MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : He has already spoken on the Bill. He was not aHowed because it is beyond the scope of The Enacting Formula, uS amended, .- as the Bill. added 10 the Bill.

The Tille ,..'os added to the Bill. AN HON. MEMBER: But he wanted to speak on the Bill.

RAO BIRENDRA SINGH: I beg to MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The amend­ move: ment was not aIJowed. That is why he was Dot allowed. "That the B,lI, as amended, be passed." SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER : The question RAO: My point is different. I have seen is : the original B.II. "That the Bill, as amended, be paC\sed." MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Already everything is over and I have given one The motion M"as adopted. hour more than the allotted time and all the Members have spoken so much on it. Now, it is not allowed. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now we go SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA to the next item. RAO : But how can you disallow when it is within the scope of tbe Act ? SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA RAO (Vijayawada) : Sir, I have given MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No discus­ notice of an Amendment. sion on the Act. Now we have lone to the next item. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We have already completed it. That has been disal- lowed. 115S brs. GANGTOK MUNICIPAL CORPORA.. SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA TION (AMENDMBNT) BILL RAO : When it is within the pro· visions of the Act, bow bas this not been [EngILth] aDowcd'l THE MINISTBR OF WORKS AND S, C;arrgtok Municipal Corpora- MAOHA 9 lS06 (SA.lA) tion (Amendment) /Jill ;8

HOUSING (SHRI ABDUL GHAFOOR) : 1~84 and that tbe State Government was I bel to move : left with no alternative but to extend the period of appointment of the Administrator "That the Bill further to amend the by promulgation of an ordinance by the Gangtok Municipal Corporation Act, Governor. It is, therefore, proposed that 1975 as passed by Rajya Sabha, be the power of the State Government to taken into consideration." enhance the period of appointment of tbe Administrator of the Corporation may be Accordlng to sub-section (3) of section 3 of extended by amending tbe Gangtok Munici­ the Gangtok Municipal Corporation Act, pal Corporation Act, 1975 through promul­ 1975, the first Councillors were nominated gation of an ordinance. 10 the light of the by tbe Governmt:nt of Sikkim. to the Muni­ above cjrcumstance~, Gangtok MuniCIpal cipal Corporation for a period of four years Corporation (Amendment) Ordinance, 1934 from the date of the first meeting of the was, with the prior instructions of the Pre­ Corporation ,iz. 18-12-75. Their term sident, promulgated by the Governor on expired on the 17th December, 1979. Under 17tb December, 19H4 empowering the State sub "section (5) of section 3 of the said Act, Government to extend the penod of ap­ the State Government is empowered to pointment of the Administrator for a appoint, if no new Councillors are eJected, further period of one year at a time but not an Administrator for the Corporation for a beyond a total period of two years in place period of four years or until the reconstitu­ of the power of the State G0vernment to tion of the corporation, whichever is earlier. extend the period for a further period of one The said sub-section (5) further provides year. In other words, the State Govern­ that the State Government can extend the ment could appoint an Administrator for a period of appointment of the Administrator total per jod of six years which in this case for a further period of one year. Accord" would expire on the 17th December, 1985. ingly the State Government appointed an Administrator under sub-section (5) for a It is now proposed to replace the Gangtok total period of five years which expired on Municipal Corporation (Amendment) Ordi­ 17th December, 1984. r ance, 19~4 by a Bill to be enacted by Parliament. The amending provisions in On the 25th May, 1984, the President the BiU are the same as in tbe 01 dinance. issued a proclamation under article 356 of tbe Constitution assuming inter aba to him­ WIth these few words, I commend tbe Bill self all functions of the State Government for the consideration of the House. and all powers vested in or exercisable by the Governor of that State. It was also MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : Motion declared that the powers of the Legislature moved: of the State shall be exercisdble by or under tbe authority of Parliament. By a separate "That tbe Bill further to amend tbe order, the President directed that all the Gangtok Municipal Corporation Act, functions of the Goveroment of tbe State of 1975 as passed by Rajya Sabba, be Sikkim and all tbe powers vested In or exer­ taken into consideration." cisable by the Governor of that State under the Constitution or under any law in force We adjourn for Lunch DOW. We meet in tbat State, which have been assumed by again at 2.00 I).m. the President under the said proclamation Shall, subject to the superintendence, direc. 11.59 brs. tion and control of the President, be exerci­ sable also by the Governor of the said The Lok Sabha then adjourned for Lunch State. 1111 Fourteen o/the Clock.

The GovernOlent of Sikkim informed in December, 1984 that it was not possible to bold elections for reconstitution of the The Lok Sabha re·asumbled after Lunch Corporation bcfOfC the 17th December, at FOIIrtten O/IM Clock. 59 Ganglok Municipal Corpora- JANUAll Y 29, 1985 lion (Amtndnrtnt) Bill 60

[MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER In the Chair] and (3) Constitutional recognition of Nepali Jaoguaae and its inclusion in the Eighth GANGTOK MUNICIPAL CORPORA. Schedule of the Constitution. TION (AMENDMENT) BILL-Contd. Sikkim is tbe youngest and the smlUes t [English] State of India. It is in tbe process of infe­ MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER : The hon. sration. Hence it deserves proper nourish­ Minister bas moved the motion for consi­ ment and assistance. We have always to deration of the Bill and spoken on it. keep its distinction and sentiments in mind while deciding anything pertaining to that Now. I request Sbri A.nanda Pathak to State. It is situated in a sensitive border speak. area. Therefore, the democratic urge and aspiration of the people of Sikkim should SHRI ANANDA PATHAK (Darjee­ not be ignored. ling) : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, although the scope of tbe Bill seems to be limited to I therefore, urge upon the Government to extend the period of appointment of Admi­ consider their longstanding demands as nistrator of Gangtok f\.iunicipal Corporation stated above before the Assembly -election') for another one year, yet it smacks of the are held and hold the election to Gangtok undemocratic attitude of the Government Municipal Corporation also as early as towards democratic institutions, like Assem­ possible. bly, Municipality and other local bodies. With these words, I conclude my speech. Gangtok is a small but beautiful town. I t attracts thousands of visitors and tourists every year. So, it requires better adminis· fTranslation] tration, beautification and necessary SHRI MOOL CHAND DAGA (PdJi): amenities. These can be ensured only Mr. Deputy-Speaker, SIr, I do not accept through an elected body of Councillors. this principle of appointing Administrators But the eJection of CounCIllors of Gangtok in Municipal Committees and Municipal Co­ Municipal Corporation has not taken place porations. Ejections to these bodies should for the last several years. Instead of hoJd. also be held like Parliament and State ing the election of the Municipal Corpora­ AssembJies. The practice of appointing tion, the CentraJ Government has undemo­ Administrators in Municipal Committees cratically dismissed even the democratically and Corporations should be done away with. eJected State Government, the Chief Today India is adopting new techniques and Minister of which was none else but the breaking new groundi. Tomorrow anti­ 'eader of the Congress (I) Party itself. defection Bill is also going to be taken up. Why was this Government overthrown? We do not want that any Administrator It was because tbe Chief Minister had should be thrusted upon us. voiced some of tbe longstanding demands of tbe people of SJkkim which was not palata­ In his statement, the Minister has descri­ ble to tbe Congress(J) Party as ~ell as the bed the condition of Gangtok Municipal Central Government. Corporation. I had asked for the Btll but tbe same has not been made available to me. Now, the Assembly eJections have been You have stated that there has been an declared. It is all right. I am happy at it. Administrator for the lalt five years. I CO But without settling some of the burning not think that any Parliament in the world issues of the people of Sikkim bow can the would support the idea that Administrators elections be held fairly and democratically? be posted in democratic ir.~ :itutions. We are The burnina issues of tbe people are (1) totally against it. We cannot tolerate this solv\ng the problem of reservation of seats attitude. Wherever Administrators are pos­ in tbe State Assembly. (2) granting the ted, they themselves swallow all the earn­ Citizenship rights aod vOlina rights to thou­ iogs and become rich. I would like to telf sands of domiciled inhabitants of Sikkim about my own town. In PaJi Municipal 61 Gangt(}k Mllnlclpai Corpora.. MAGHA 9, l~(SAKA) lion (lfmendment) B,II 6z

Corporation there has been an Administra­ the eJections to Municipal Committees and tor (or the last eight years and the result is Municipal Corporations at all places will be that we are not g~tting all our civil rights. held in the same manner as in the case of the Legislative Assemblies, and the Election THE MINISTER OF WORKS AND Commissioner should be empowered to hold HOUSING (SHRI ABDUL GHAFOOR) : these elections. You should not keep the There is a popular Government. power of holdmg elections with you and it should vest in the Election Commission so that elections are held in time. We do not SHRI MOOL CHAND DAGA: Of wdnt that the system of e1cetions should course, popular Government is there but the come to an end. This shoul\~ not happen basis of democracy lay in local instjtutions. as it is seen that sometimes Chief ~1injster The public jnstitutjon~, MUnicipal Commi- does not agree ~nd sometimes the Minister ttees and Panchayats ...... for Local Bodies does Dot agree to hold elect1on~. What I feel is that you did not (Inrerruptions) want to pilot this Bill but you have intro­ duced it reluctantly and now you want to I would like to draw the attention of the get it passed. hon. Mini~ter to what I am saying because he is busy in talking to the Mmister [EngliJh 1 of State. The hone Mlr ister has been the Chief Minister of Bihar and be knows as to I want that they should pass a leg;c;)atlon where and in how many Municipal Cor­ that there should be no admimstrator so far porations in the country, Admini~trators as local bodies are concerned, they should have been appointed and when w~re they be ruled by elected persons. appointed. They are in Madhya Pradesh, Karanataka and Delhi...... (Infe"uprions). [Trans/at ion 1 This has resulted in curtailment of our You have come forward wittJ this Bit', rights. Who is responsible for taking away so I support it. But in conclusion I would the rights of the people in democracy? You lIke to say that Municipal Committees and are the protectors of the rights of the citi­ Corporations should not have any Admini­ zens in democracy but you yourse1f have strator. With these wordsI conclude. come with a Bill with the plea that since! there is no popular Government, the term of the Administrator may be extended for a [Eggli.,h) further period of one }ear. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER The next ~peaker is Mr. Girdhari La\ Vyas. SHRI ABDUL GHAFOOR : Since there is President's rule, we are responsible to Now, the Minbter of Parliamentary look into this aspect. Otherwise we have Affairs wants to make an announcement. no responsibility in this regard. THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY SHRI MOOL CHAND DAGA: I want AFFAIRS (SHRI H.K L. BHAGAT) : that the law should be amended because The Constitution (Amendment) Bin was these local bodies, Municipal Com;nittees, due for c\)nsideration by the House today. etc. are the foundations of our democracy. The Prime Minister had a meeting with the The whole of tbe democratic set up is based leader;; of Opposition Groups, and as a on these units but you appoint Adminis· result of some discussion it has been agreed trators in local bodies :tnd you have brought that the Bill will be taken up tomorrow, a Bill here to extend their term for a further Dot today. So, we take up the Administra­ period of one year, after five years. There tive Tribunals Bill today. The Constitution is Administrator in Calcutta also. That is (Amendment) IHII will be taken up tomor­ why I say that it is a matter of principle row. For this, I want the permission o( the and unless you implement it properly, it is House. Dot goiog to be beneficial. I waGt that a provision should be made to the effect that MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Con- 63 (langtok Aillnicipal Corpora- JANUARY 19,1985 dOft (J4m,ndmlnt) /JIll

stitution (Amendment) Bill, will be taken up more. All these things about the constitu­ tomorrow and not today. I bope the House tion and functioning of this MuniCipal Cor­ agrees ...... poration have been mentioned in the State­ ment of Objects and Reasons. SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes. Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, you know it SHRI ABDUL RASHID KABULI very wen, and Mr. Daga has also stated, (Sri nagar) : We have suffered a lot because tbat Municipa1 Committee or tbe Pancbayat of defections. I want an assurance from is the basic unit of our democracy. If the hone Minister that this Bill win be tbese are not administered by the elected passed in this very Session. replesentatives ~ then those areas are not properly developed. The provision made SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT : I wish to make in this Bill and also the previous Bill show it clear that the Government's intention is clearly that so far tbe Corporation bas been to get tbe Bill passed in this Sess· on. administered by the bureaucrats and they Government's intention is very clear. It is have not done anything through the Gang­ not proper for me to disclose it. This Bill tok Municipal Corporation which would will be taken up tomorrow. bave resulted in the progress of Gangtok.

SHRI S. IAIPAL REDDY In the case of Municipal Committees or (Mabbubnagar): We are prepared to co­ Corporations not heving elected represen .. operate with the Government in respect of tatives, the earnings of corporation, etc. by expeditious passage of this Bin. In this way of taxes etc. are spent on the salaries of context, I would like to make one submis­ the staff appointed by the Administrators.

sion. It may be taken up tomorrow t but The government officials do not bother to sufficient time for discussion must be given. make arrangements for sanitation, drinking It must be extended even upto the day after water and other things. Therefore, it is tomorrow. very necessary that such institutions should have elected Members so that city or area MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER One day concerned is properly developed. You has been allotted for this. For full day should, therefore, ensure that such an tomorrow it can be discussed. arrangement is made.

Mr. V,as. Since there is no ejected Government in that State you had to briog this Bill. I do [ Translation) not have any objection to this Bill. The present system will continue for one year SHRI GIRDHARI LAL VYAS (Bhil­ more, to wbich I do not object but you wara): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I support should see that the bott1enecks which have the Gangtok Municipal Corporation been coming in tbe way of development (Amendment) BIIJ which ha~ been introduc­ works so far are not allowed to come in ed in this House. their way in future. You should make definite arranaements to the effect tbat in In the Statement of Objects and Reasons all such Municipal Corporations or Pancha­ of the Bill, it has been stated that under the yats or other such public bodies eJections Oangtok Municipal Corporation Act, 1975 are held in time and tbese institutions speed the Members were nominated for a period up the development of their areas. of four years and tbose nominated Members worked for four years. Thereafter another It is true tbat at present no elected provision was made in the Act and in government exists there. Therefore, you accordance with tbat provision an Adminis­ will not be in a position to hold electioo to trator was appointed for 4 years. He also this body. But luch conditions should Dot worked lor 4 years. Later 00, his term had continue for ever as it miabt hamper the to be extended for a funher f,eriod of one development there. year_ Now a provision has been made in tbis Bill to extend his term for one year One bOD. member has just now stated 65 Gangtok Municipal Corpo,a- MAGHA 9, 1906 (SAKA) lion (Amelldm,nt) Bill 66

that Sikkim Government was toppled and dissolution of the Government or Sikkim President's rule imposed there. The bon. was not proper. Member knows this fact very well that the Government there was not functioning pro­ There 'are many causes of the dissolution perly. Due to mismanagement of that of Government of Sikkim. Several charges Government, President's rule was imposed. had been levelJed against it, and there were Now eJections will be held there and a new financial irregularities also and fUDds were Government will be formed. The new being misused. It was due \0 these causes Government will properly manage this cor­ that the Government of IndIa took this poration. We have every hope that the new action. It was absolutely necessary to take this Government will hold the elections of the action. Without it, the administration there Corporation also at the earliest. could not be run properly. It was due to this that 9.11 this action was taken. The hone Member went to the extent of saying that the elected Government was Besides, I think eJection to the 10caJ ins­ toppled and the President's rule was titutions, should be held within the schedul­ imposed there. But be did DOt mention that ed time so as to speed up development the Government was not discharging their tbere because it has been experienced tbat in duti~s properly. Did that Government not the States, where the eJections to Munici­ commit any irregularities and illeaalities? palities and Panchayats are not held in time, It is a border State and if in any border development is retarded. As elections to Stp.te such a Government is formed which Municia>alities and Panchayats in Rajasthan do not function prol'erly and thereby bave not been he'd for the last \3 years, the cause harm to the nation, the President and entire development bad stopped there. As the Government have the power to impose soon as elections to Municipalities and President's rule there in order to safeguard Panchayats were held, things were speeded the interests of that region so that the people up and development is taking place there. inside and outside might not cause any Wherever slums exist, they are being remov· harm to our country. The Central Govern­ ed. Roads are being repaired. Wherever ment have been given the specific power to there is shortage of electricity, it is being make such arrangement and to stop such supplied and wherever there are no roads, harmful activitie~. It is very commenda­ they are being built. Whatever facilities are ble that our Government have dis charged to be provided to the public, they are being their duty. Whatever the hone Member provided to them. In view of this experience, said in this regard was out of sheer it is absolutely necessary to hold the election malice and was politically motivated. I have to these institutions. These elections must no hesitation in saying that his only aim was be held. Besides, in those States, where to crit!cise tbe Central Government. The ejections to Municipalities and Panchayats administrat ion there was not functioning have not been held, they should be held properly. Many times it bas been brougbt immediately so that development takes to your notice that the Government of place in tbose States. West Bengal is not functioning properly. In view of the prevailing mismanagement, Besides, it has been stated in tbe state­ the Government there should not continue ment of Objects and Reasons that: even for a single day. Jn this regard we have been repeatedly saying that the [Eng/f~h] Government of West Benga) is not comply­ "The term of the Administrator so ing with t he orders of the Government of appointed was due to expire on 17th India and is misusing the funds and resort­ December, 1984. Since it was not ing to overdraft. In order to stop these possible to bold elections for the Ie­ irregu1arities, it is the duty of the Govern­ constitution of the Corporation ment of India to impose President's rule in before 17th December i 984, tbe West Bengal also as has been done in the Governor of Sikkim, with the prior case of Sikkim so that the Administration instructions of tbe President, promu- there is run properly. They do not realise 19ated an Ordinance on 17th Decem­ this fact and that is why they say that tho ber, 1984 ameodins tbe Gan8tot 67 Ga"gtok Municipal Corpm'o- JANUARY 29.1985 tion (Amendmtnt) Hill 68

Munkipal Corporation Act, \975 so ing. With the increase in population, as to empower the State Government problems of people have a1so multiplied. to e:ll.tcnd the period of appcintment The people living in the cities are concerned of the Admini:;trator for a further with the Municipal Corporations for their per iod of one year at a time but not prob1ems. This is why people instead of beyond a total period or two years." look;ng towards the Government. are Jook. ing towards the Municipal Corporations for their problems. I would like to remind [Tran lalfon] that in a country like Greece cities were Under this provision the Administr~tor considered States. There cities were coun­ wiJI continue for 6 yr:lTs. There \\"3$ already tries. Population of our cities has increased. a provision to e'tter-d the period for one year After increase in the population, the rut new it hzs been fxtenced fOf a further problems in the Corporations are generally period of one ~ear. The appointment of t·he same which a Governmer.t ha\ e to solve Administrator fCf 6 )'eaIS wiJ1 ddir.jtely for the en!ire country. Basically there are hamper the development there. You know problems of transport, sanitation, ration, this Let very wen. When bureaucracy is water, electririty. etc. I think it is high in~talled it onl~ works ~ecording to rults. time that in the ch3nged situation we Rules stclod in the way of progress and shC'uid realise tbat now the l\1unicipal Cor­ hamper development of cities. You are poration has become an important body. giving powers to the burca ucracy which IS Corporatio:1s should ha~'e a J epresentative not proper. Bur~aucracy \\eakens our character and should be conslituted in democratic machinery through which we accordance with the wilJ of the people and want to move ahead. We accert thj~ legisla· with their help. I would like to draw the tron, t-ut henceforth such a r-ro"ision ~.1inister's attention to my State. EJections should not be arpficd to other COl pora­ to the Municipal Committees and Town tions so th~t our m2chinery is not weakened Area Committees were held there at the and we continue to move ahead. I hC'pe time when there was the Governmeut of Dr. our hen Ivfinister will take note of it. Farooq Abdullah. Subsequently a Govern­ T,\'ith the~e ~ oro!- I ~UPpOIt this Btll. ment of defectors came into power which do not command maj0rity. It has been thrust upon us, It imml!diateJy dissolved SHRI AnnUL RASHID KABULI (Sri. the Municipal Committees. J would like 10 nagar): t..1r. Deputy Speaker, S.r, I do not ask the Government whether people do not agree with the Bill brought by Government cast their vote in the elections to a Munici· to provide for the exten~k'n of the term of pal Councd with this hope that it will run for the Administrator of the Gangtok Municipal five years. We are e1ected b} the people for Coq.:.oratlon fur a further period of one Lok Sabha or Parliament for five ytars. }ear. J think it is against the spirit of Similarly they elect us for ihe Assemhlies in democracy to give extension to the Adminis­ the States. But as soon as a new Govern­ tratnr eVt"ry year and thus impoce cureau­ meet is instaJ1ed in a State they dissolve crJt'y on lhr ru~fic. I think it is a negati0n the Municipal Corporations or Councils of OUf admjni trafive c.et up. I v'ou!d also because State Governments have been given like to say th3t the Municipal C('f porations these powers unnecessarHy. Here I am not have aS5umed great importanrc bccauc;e la1king about my State alone but it is flOW the Corp0r~tjons are aUfon('mous to a happenirg in other S' ates aJso in the coun­ great exh. nf. R':$ideli. I he population of try. Wnen a new Gov~r:1ment ii installed, cities has con,iderabJy increased Srinagar. they appoint Administrafor of their own the capital of K3~hmil was having a popula­ wilf and thus they impose this Admiolstra­ tion of 2' t /2 lakh pr~viou'\'y. Now its tor on the peopJe. They have got the population is seven lakh. Similarly three '0 powers to dissolVo! the MuniciraJ Corpora­ f{'ur bkh people I.ve in Jammu. Popula­ tion, or Council. Mr. Deputy Speaker. ti0n in citi~s all over the country j~ increas­ Sir, I want to mention here that they have ing consid-:rably because rural population got excessive powers with which they are is migrating to cities. Thus in cities, work murdering democracy in tbe whole country. of tbe administrative machinery is iocreas. Therefore, I would like to point out as one 69 Go, glok MIII1lclpal CO'P0f'o. MAGnA 9, 1906 (StfKA) lion (Aml'ntimenl) Bill 70 hon. Member in the House has stated ment wiJJ consider an tbese points and in­ that jt is the need of the hour that at present troduce a comprehensive Bill in this House elections to the Municipal Corporations providing for elections to all corporations, should be conducted under the supervision councils or town area committees in the of the Election Commission. Wherever entire country under the supervision of the elections to Corporations or Councils are Election Commission. held or wherever such type of administra.. tive ~et up exists, elections should invaria­ [Eng/i/,h] bly be conducted through the Election Commission so that the sanctity of the vote SHRI N. TOMBI SINGH (Inner Mani.. is maintained. It is necessary for this pur): Sir, I rise to support the Gangtok reason also that whichever Council or Cor­ Municipal Corporation (Amendment) Bill, poration is constituted. it will function for 1985. I can appreciate the exigencies five years thoul'h it does not function for under' which this BIll has been brought by this period. People cast their vote with the the Government. The Bill is for a very hope that it will serve for five years but it limited scope, namely, to empower the is not s.o. The reason j~ that in our country State Government to extend the period of such type of authoritarian tendencies have appointment of the Administrator. Certai­ come up, powers to such an extent have nly, some very important issues of policy been given that whenever a new Govern­ have been involved. It is, therefore, io tbe ment j" installed, it dls~olve" Municipal fitness of things that this House should go Corporations or Councils. into all the details as far as policies are concerned. leaving aside the exigencies which have comp:JJed the Government to Sir, J would. therefore, urge upon the bring this Bill. Government to bring a comprehensive Bill before the House wherein it should also be My. hon. friends, Shr; Daga and Shri prov!(kd that eJections to the~e bodies shaH Vyas have pointed out that a good Govern­ be conducted under the supervision of the ment can be no substitute for a popular Election Commic::sion and wher.ever a new Government, because a bureaucratic Government is installed, they !:.hall not dis­ Government and a democratic Government colve Corporationc;. Councile; or Town Area stand in different categories ; the difference Committees for which peorle have extended is not of degrees. their cooperation and cast their votes. I know it from my own experience that people The difference is in class. Therefore, it ~ufTer as a result of the dissolution and as has been rightly said that a good govern­ the administrator is appointed, the Cor­ ment cannot be a substituite for popular porations lose their representative character government. Sikkim is a very strategic and and are dominated by the bureaucracy and frontier State. It is one of the newcomers thu~ corruption starts breeding there. It in the Comity of States in the Indian has been my experience tbat as soon as a Union. It deserves special consideration in new administrator comes, vested interests respect of everything. begin to surround him for their own gains and as a result, the people at large do not Sir, when we consider the question of the get the benefits in any way of the earnings municipal corporations, town committees, of that Corporation. Nor is anybody left ect 9 we are reminded of Gandhijj9s principle with any right to question the assets of the of decentralisation of administration and corporation. Therefore, I would sudmit power. Here the underlying idea is that that this concept of vour is wrong. It is true the power and administration of develop­ that there is PresidenCs rule in Sikkim. but ment particularly of the urban and town who prevents you from conducting elections areas should be decentralised. Functionin& to the Gangtok Municipal Corporation. At under the very nose of the State Govern­ Jeast, you can extend this facility to the ment, the Municipal Corporations of all tbe people there. Nobody can prevent you. It capital cities of tbe State are having their is, therefore, not proper to extend the own sphere of democracy, their own spbere tenure of administrator every year. I of autonomy and they should have a say in oppose this BiU .nd hope tbat tbe Govern .. coDtroUin, their own affairs. So. tbM 71 Ganglok Municipal Corpora .. JANUARY 29. 1985 lion (Anwndmenl) Bill 72

underlying idea cannot be overlooked. If committees tbat are coming up in different we do so, in the normal conJit;ons, we shaH States is, I should say, so negligible. I be ignoring the basic principles whIch we would like to propose, in tbis context, is have inherited, which we claim to have that we should provide more funds for the inherited from the Father of the Nation. By development of these small town committees way of discussing the broad pri nciples, I and municipality committees, particularly wou1d like to refer to those broad principles in tbe hilly regions like Slkkim and tbe and how they are being implemented today. States and Union T~rritories of Nolth The reference is not only to Slkkim but to Eastern areas like Manipur. By doing so, man}, other States in the country, particu­ we shall be able not only to increase the larly in the Eastern States where develop­ amenities given to the people, but we shall ment started very late, the dev _Iopm~nt and also be able to develop the tourist attrac­ administration of the municipahty com­ tions- because these small States and mittees, town committees and nOtified Union Territories in the outl)ing areas have areas in this region deserve a special study to be developed thus, because if you cannot because of the prolonged neglect it ha~ devefop them through heavy industries or suffered so far. a ny other means you have to develop them as tourist centres. As tourist towns, the Referring to Sikkim, I am constrained to fir~t priority should be to provide these make a comparison with one of the States towns and municipalities with minimum in the North-Eastern reg;on, there a slmildr requirement-in respect of water, electricity, condition prevails. I represent the State of hotel facilities e~c. In thi~ process, we shall I\fanipur and we have many things in com­ be able to uplift these so far neglected and mon. Both Manipur and Sikkim hre bJlly late-starling Union Territories and States States. Both are late-starters. So far as economically. the administration is. concerned, tbey are new States. Sikkim became a State only Regarding Sikkim particularly, it has been juc;t a decade ago. Therefore. I would like the focus of our attention all these }ears. to make this comparative Hurly referring to Parliament bas rightly enacted the grant of my own State, \\'here similar things happen statehood to Sikkim some }eafS ago. My and similar conditions prevail. We h3ve as hon. friend who spoke from the other side many as 6 municipal bodies and as many as referred to the administration in S,kkim, ahout 49 notified areas. These municiral and to the dismissal of the democratic bodies and notified areas exist only in name. tjovernment there. This, as I said, in the The State Governm~nt, due to raucity of context of the municipal corporation, refers funds, provides only the amour.t needed fo: to the entire State administration; but we the admini~tration, i.e. the basic needs of should agree that a certam extraordinary the administration to meet the expenses situation prevailed in that Slate, and we of deriea) staff ar.d other staff, etc. Sc., should appreciate it. By and large we this does not at al) contribute to the deve­ should all agree that there must be normal, lopment of the so·calkd municipalities or democratic rule in every State-not only in towns. In fact Sir, I am one of those who Sikkim. In Sikkim we should appreciate are opposed to urbani~atjon as such But that an extraordinary situation prevailed, development of town committees and and the Government of India had to act. municipal corporations and boards does So, a certain action which would not have not merely aim at urbanisation. Certain been normally justified by the democratic ~asjc am(-nitje~, which cannot be provided norm, had to be taken; the Government of

for the whole of the country t for the whole India had full justification to act in that of the State, have to be provided in the manner. But we would not encourage t:le town areas. So, now I woold suggest to idea that in normal circumstances, such an the hon. Union Minhter of Housing is that action should be taken, every time and in the nation should have a policy for sp«dy every-situation. Such an action should be dcw:.lopment of town in backward areas. taken sparingly. They do have a policy. But then. if we come to tbe concrete implementation of this The Gangtok municipal corporation by policy, the share received b)' tbe mall town itselr remai ns, al rar as we can see from a 73 Gallliok Municipal Corpora- MAOHA 9, 1906 (S~.KA) lion (Amfntl1t1~nl) Bill 74 remote angle. I do not belong to Sikkim, the HOUSING (SHRI ABDUL GHAFOOR): little that we have seen and heard about it Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the views expressed tells us that this Gangtok corporation by my friend and by Shri KabuJi, sitting remains more of an administrative unit. opposite me have not much relevance to the Development·wise and also from the point present measure. AU the corporations, view of development of tourism. as J have municipalities and gram panchayats are not ju~t mentioned, many of these aspects covered by it. I t is the duty of tbe State remain f.eglected. If, in spite of the con­ Government to conduct elections. Now tinuance of this bureaucratic regime and why thiS particular Bill about Gangtok has set up in the Gangtok municipal corpora­ been brought in Parliament 1 These tbiDgs tion, Government of India could increase the would have been relevant If \\e had brought number of deveJormentai activities, and a Bill covering aU the corporations in aU could take certa in concrete steps to increase the States. This has been brought under the facilities given to tourists like water. special circumstances. You know tbat this power and otbers, perhaps Government ordinance was promu)ga ted by tbe Governor would certainly be justified, despite a)1 the on 17-12-1S4 With the consent of the Presi­ criticism, in taking the action it has dene so dent because the State as under President's far if it can enhance the attractiveness of rule The Councillors of the Gangtok the town as a tourist spot. Municipal Corporation were functioning as per the provisions of tbe Act of that Cor­ I would, therefore, appeal to the hon. poration. Now their term has expired. An Minister of Housing that taking a lesson Administrator bas now been appointed as from S.kkim, we should have a broader per the provisions of the ~ame Act. He is framework~ of policy: whicb will apply not in office but his term is also fixed. In the only to Sikkim, but to tbe rest of the coun­ meantime President's rule was promulgated. try, so that the notified areas, sma)) town The President's rule is going to end on the committees and the municipal committees ~9th May 198. So, in order to maintain that have come up all over the country, the continuity and to ensure tbat tbe people with particular reference to the outlying do not suffer, his term is being extended by States of the north·ea~tern area, and also one )ear and when the next popular Slkkim should be given proper treatment in Government comes, it WIll conduct elections this respect; giving special allocation of to the Corporation. Then they may dis40 funds Today, we see, from year to )ear, pense \\-jlh the servIces of the Administrator the Ministry of Housing, Government of and make good arrangements for sanitation India, is making a special selectson of Town or electricity. So we sball bave to replace Committees according to certain rules the ordinance by an act with a view to from different States it is good. We see remove the lacuna in the Gaogtok Munici­ that there is no special treatment being pal Act relating to the extension of tbe term of the Administrator by one year so that given to the backward area of northeast and continuity is maintained. President's rule Sikkim in this selection. I do not know tbe will end on the 2.;th May, 19~ 5 and after reasons whl' they are being neglected so conducting the ejections they may do what­ far. ever thoy deem fit.

Now, I would suggest that the Ministry of So I tbink there are no more complica­ Housing, Government of India, ~hou)d have tions and now I move tbat tbe Bill be a special policy (or the backward areas taken into consideration. because tbey are not being properly treated in respect of development of small towns MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER Tbe ques- with special emphasis on development of tion is : tourism in tbis area. I am grateful to you for giviog me an opportunity to speak on "That the Bill further to amend tbe tbis Bill. Gangtok Municipal Corporation Act. 1975, as passed by Rajya Sabba, be (Tra1i,lation] taken into consideratioD."

THB MINISTER. OF WORKS AND Th, motloll .,4f IIdopl,d. 75 Ganl'fbK Alu1Ilclpal C()fpO,a­ JANUARY 29, 1985 Adn,lnlJlrotll,t T,lhul:als Bill 16 lion (Am~ndm~lf/) Bill

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The House MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques­ will now take up clause-by.. clause consi­ tion is : deration of the B'". The question is : "That the Bill, as amended, be passed." HTnat clause§ 2 and 3 stand part of the BiU." The motion M-'as adopted. The motion wtu adopted. 14.52 brs. Clausel 2 and 3 M'tre add~d to the Bill. ADMINISTRATIVE TRJBUNALS BILL Clau~e I )4QS added to the Bill. [Efigli~h] Enacting Formula MR. DEPU1Y SPEAKER Now we take up Item No. 15. Amendment made THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 1. Page I, line 1,- DEPARTMENTS OF PERSONNEL AND ADMINISTRATIVE REFORMS AND lor "Thirty-fifth" substitute "Thirty­ CULTURE (SHRI K P. SINGH DEO) : I sixth" (I) beg to move'" ; (Shri Abdul Ghafoor) "That the Bill to provide for the adjudication of trial by Administra­ tive Tribunals of disputes and com. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques­ plaints with respect to recruitment tion is : and conditions of service of persons appointed to public services and posts "That the Enacting Formula~ as in connection with the affairs of the amended, stand part of the Bill." Union or of any State or of any local or Of her authority within the territory The motion ,.'OJ adop/~d. of India or under the control of the Government of India or of any COf­ poration owned or controlled by the The Enacting Formula. aJ amcndtd, K'QS Government and for matters connec­ Qdd~d 10 the Bi/l. ted therewith or incidental thereto, be taken Into c;on~ideration." MR. DEPUTY SPEA KER: The ques­ tion is : Article 323·A of the Constitution pro­ vides for the adjudication or trial by Admi. nistrative Tribunals of disputes and com­ "That the Title stand part of the plaints with respect to recruitment and Bill. tt conditions of service of persons appointed to public services and posts iD co.nectioD TM motion was adopted. with the affairs of the Union or of any State or of any local or other authority within the territory of India or under the control of the Th~ T.tle wal added 10 the Bill. Government of India or of any corpora­ tion owned or controlled by 'he Government SHRI ABDUL GHAFOOR: I bel '0 and for matters connected therewith or move: incidental thereto. The Administrative Tribuna's Bm, 1985, is intended to give ·'That tbe Bill, as amended, be practical shape to these provisions of the passed." Constitution. The Bill provides (or the ---"--- -"------_._------~ ------• Moved witb tbe recommendation of tbe President. 77 Admin/ltrOllve Trlhuno/$ Bill MAGHA 9. 1906 (SAKA) Admini~i'Qtive Tribunals Bill 78

setting up of Central Administrative Tribu­ all asprcts of the grivances are looked into nals ror dealing with grievances relating l\) adequately before a decision is taken. service matters of the members of the All However, provision has a:so been made for India Services and other Central Govern­ constituting Single·l\-kmber Benches to deal ment empbyees. Likewise, there is a pro­ with routine cases of a simple character. vision for setting up of State Administrative Tribunals for deaHng with the grievances The Bill provides that serving or retired relating to service matters of the State Judges of the High Courts or those who are Government employees There is also a holding or have held pr-sts at the level of proviSion to extend the jurisdiction of the Secretary to the Government of India or Tribunals to the employees of loca) bodIes, posts u;,\der the Celtral or the State Govern­ corporations etc. which are under the con­ ments carrying a sClle of pay not less than trol of Government. The Bill provides for that of a Secretary to the Government of the setting up of State Administrative India for two yearc;, can be appolOted as Tribunals by the Centra) Government on Cbairm:ln or Vice-Chairman. Similarly, receipt of a requ:st in this regard from the persons who are, or h lve been, or are State Government. There is a1s. a prov.~ion qualified to be ju,jges of HIgh Courts, and fllr setting up of Joint Administrative Tribu­ those who hJve helJ post> of tb:! l~vel of nals ror two or more St,ltc~ if they so desire. A Jdition3t Secretary to {he G,)vcrnm:nt of As lnentioned in .\rticle 321-A of the Jnji-t .for t\\O years or a post of Ioint Constitution, on tile setting up of su.;h Secretary to the Government of ln~ ia for Tribunals, the jurisdiction of aU courts, three }ears or a post under the Centr~l or except tbe jurisdiction of the Supreme a State Govern'llent carrying a scale of pay Court under Article 136. would be excluded not less tban that of an Additional Secretary with respect to matters relating to recruit­ to the Government of India for two years mtot and cO'lditions of service of members or Joint Secretary to the GGVerDment of of the AU India Service" th! Central J ndia for three }ears are eligible to be Government employees and the State arpo;nted 3S Members of the Tnbunal. The Government emplo~ces. term of th~ office of the Chairman/Vice­ Chairman and ~fembers of the Tribuna) will It is ,stimated that there are at present be five yeJrs subject to the age limit of 65

over ()3 9 OOO cases-·to be exact 63,880 cases - years in the C3se of Chairmanj Vice· relating to Central and State Governm~nt Chairm3n and 6:! years in the case of employees which are pending in the various ~tcmbers. High Courts all over the country. The sett­ ing up of Administrative Tribuna!s to dedI 10 order t.J eosure objl!ctivity and impar­ eJtclu~ively wilh servIce matters woulJ not tialltyof the Trt~un3J. it has been provided only reduce the present burden on th~ that the Chairman/Vice-Chairman and courts. thereby enablmg tbem to devote Memb~rs are debarred from any other m\)rc time to other cases, but also provide appointment under the Central or State speedy relief to Government employee~ for Government on their ceasing to bold such redreisal of their grievances relating to office and that they cannot also appear or service matters. plead before a Tribunal in ",:hich they have held office. It is proposed that every T. ibunal will consist of a Principal Bench and such \Vith the cstJblishment of the Administra. number of additional Benches as mJY he tive Tribunals all the cases pending before nrcessary. The Piincipal Bench i~ to he the court'), exec", for appeal c:tses pendina presided over by the Chairman and is to before any of the High Courts or the consist of a Vice· Chairman and three other Supreme Court would get transrerred to the M~mbers. The addition31 Benches will also Tribunal. This is in accordance with the consist of at least two other Members. provisions contained in Article 3!3A of tbe Provision been made a three­ has fllr Constitution. Member Bencb in order to ensure objecti.. vity in dealina with the cases tbat come up before tbo Tribunal and for ensurio. tbilt The final orders of tbo Tribunal will be 79 Administrative Tribunal8 Bill JANUARY 29, 1985 Administrative Tribunals Bill 80

binding on both the parties and either party decision or the judgment of the Tribunal is aggrieved by p.ny order of the Tribunal can binding ou both the ·parties. Previously, go in appeal to the Supreme Court as pro­ there were so many decisions wbich were vided in Article 1 J6 of the Constitution. not accepted by the State Governments.

The passing of the Administrative Tribu­ 15.00 brs. nals BiU, J985 by Rajya Sabba in their Jast session, was to fulfil the Jong-felt need of a body to deal exclusively with service matters There were so many cases, which were re­ of public servants so as to provide them jected by tbe State Governments, which were with speedy justice. I am sure that this Bin pending with the various tribunals. I would will be welcomed by aH sections of this request the hon Minister to see that tbey House. I therefore, commend this Bill for also come within the purview of this Bill. consideration and passing by this House. That wHI give re lief to tbe Government servants. There are thousands of cases, Incidentally, tbe Bill had been passed by which are accepted by the Tribunal, which Rajya Sabha. But before the Bill could be are rejected by tbe State Governments. If introduced in Lok Sabha, the term of Lok you give retrospective effect to this BilJ anJ Sabha wa~ terminated and, therefore, it has make it binding foc both cases, it will give ~n brought as a fresh legislation. relief to Government servants. Clause 30 says: MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER Motion "All proceedings before a Tribunal moved: sball be deemed to be judicial pro· ceedings within the meaning of sec- "That the BiU to provide for the tions ...... of the Indian Penal Code.n adjudication or trial by Administra­ tjve Tribunals of disputes and com­ Here I would request the hon. Minister to plaints witb respect to recruitment add "and binding on both the parties, irres­ and conditions of service of persons pective of qualifications". I would also appointed to public services and P0sts request tbe hon. Men.ber to give it retrospe­ in connection with the affairs of the ctive effect so that all the cases that were Union or of any State or of any local rejecfed by the State Governments will come or other authority within the territory within the purview of this Bill. of India or under the control of the Government of India or of any cor­ poration owned or controlled by the SHRI PRIVA RANJAN DAS MUNSHI Government and for matters connec· (Howrah) : Mr Deputy-Speaker, Sir, no ted therewith or incidental thereto, be doubt, this is a very good Bill, which seeks taken into consideration," to provide relief to the Government servants engaged at the national or State SHRI NISSANKARA RAO VENKA· level. 1t is very well directed. But I would TARATNAM (TenaH): Mr. Deput)'­ like to biahlight some points. Speaker, Sir, it is a welcome feature that the Administrative Tribunals are constitute,1 all The most important point is regarding the over tbe country to solve disputes relating composition of the Tribunal. According to to service matters. Previously tbe only the BiU, and also the statement made by difficulty tbat tbe public servants were the hon. Minister. there will be a Chairman. facing was tbat wben a judgment was liven 16 Vice-Chairmen and 33 members. Coming by tbe tribunal, it was DOt binding on tbe to their qualifications, the Bill says: State Government. The State Government might neither reject nor accept tbat judi­ "A person shan not be qualified for ment. That is why a larae number of cases appointment as the Chairman unless are pendina in the courts. be-

Of course, it is a welcome feature, as I (a) is, or has been, a Judae or a Hiab heard from tbe bon. Minister. tbat the Coun, or ...... 81 .4.dmlniltrative tribunall Bill MAO HA 9, 1906 (S",I'II) Administrative T,ibunal, Bill 82

(c) bas, for at east two years, held you have senior officers in the composition the post of a Secretary to the of the Tribunal, that would defeat the very Government of India or any object of this Bill. So, I would request the other post under the Central or hon. Minister to delete that provision. State Government, carryi ng a 15.OS hrs. scale of pay, which is not less than that of a Secretary to the [SHRI SHARAD DIGHE in the Chair Government of India." 1

1 oppose the provision for appointment of Similarly t a member of the Tribunal can be an Additional Secretary or Joint Secretary. retired Judges. Why should you go in for Keeping in view the very spirit of jUrispru­ retired Judges for this purpose? There are dence, if you want to deal with the cases of enough efficient members in the bar, who Government servants before a tribunal and are competent to be appointed as members provide them adequate relief, it will not be of the Tribunal. \Vb)' do you not appoint fair to apPOint an existing or retired Secre­ them to the Tribunal? Don't you think that tary as Chairman or AddItional Secretary there are dynamic people outside who can as member or in any other capacity. Sup· be inducted into the Tribunal? Why do pose I was an Under Secretary in a parti­ you foHow the same old British tradition of cular State Government and, durang my appointing retired officials, on a salary tenure, I was victimised by my departmental of Rs. 4,000, where they can continue for boss, at that time the S~cretary to Govern­ three years, enjoy and do whatever they like? ment in the State. It so happen'i that my This is not falf. We cannot afford in this suffering started under his leadership fur country the luxury of appointing retired various reasons, personal or otherwise. peopJ~. Personally t I have no hatred against Now when I approach the TfJbunaJ, I find them. but I want you to adopt a new that particular officer is heading the Tribu­ approach. nal. Without imputing any motive to You have stated that the Chairman and bureaucracy or casting any aspersion on Vice·Chairman shall continue in office till any officer. if you want to adopt a fair they reach the age of 65 and the members practice in jurispruoence, then It is an till they reach 62. Why do you have this abSOlutely unjust and unfair provision. How discrimination ? Does it mean that the can this person, who has worked under the members, who are also Judges of the High very same senior officer and has suffered, Court, are inferior or they will reach seni­ get justice if that senior officer is heading lityearlier, within two years. while the the tribuna)? I can understand your aopo­ Chairman and Vlce·CJ,airman win reach inting High Court Judges, but not existing senility only after five years? I cannot or retired Secretaries or Additional Secre­ understand this. Whether it is 5 years or taries, if you really want to provide relief to 2 years, it should be applicable to all. I the officers concerned. So, my first objec­ would request the hon. Minister to clarify tion is to the very composition of the this. Tribunal. The hon. Minister has stated that cases I know any number of cases, where the now pending in tbe High Court cannot be officers have suffered, not because of the transferred. Suppose I have got a fair Ministers or pohticians, but because of the judgment from a single judge and my inter-service rivalries in the department. oppopent has filed an appeal before a divi­ Some officers suffer in the matter of pro" sion bench, and that bench is in tbe pro,..~s motion or transfer because of these inter­ of giving a judgment very soon. In such service rivalries, tbanks to the performance cases, what principles are you going to of the Janata Government, when they came follow? Can they be transferred ? Is it to power, because it is tbey who inducted logically correct 7 Will it not impair tb. politics in tbe whole bureaucracy and started very basis of justice? This requires cluifica· shiftinl people here and there. That pro­ tion. cess Is still continuinl throulbout tbe country. Under lbose circumstances. if Then, thero are some ;part-heard cases. 83 Ifdmlnislraliv6 Tribllnals BIll JANUAR Y 29, J985 Administrative T"bunals }Jill 84

where the concerned High Court Judges dacoit will Dot be detained. You can have been tranc;ferrcd. In such cases, how obtain information in thii fC!gard feom tbe will YJU treat them '1 Will they be transferr­ Members of Parliament representing tb\Jse ed to the Tribunal ? areas. This has been a long practice in Bihar. Suppose I am from tbe Uttar Thirdly, suppose a writ has b~n issued Pradesh Cadre and I go to Mongbyr aod but it has not be disposed of. In those turn against a man. He goes and makes a fic­ cases, bow will you shift or transfer the titious compl&int againSt me. So, tbe Admio­ case '1 These points should be clarified by istrative Tribunal should also look into this the hone Minister, while replying to the tYPd of matter. Where tbe administration debate, as they vit ..\lIy conc~ro the Govern­ at every level i§ polluted by caste or regional ment servants. considerations, in a State, unless you get rid of this evil your tribunal cannot render As I under&tand, the Tribunal enjoys the jU'ltice. Most of the riots in some parts of same status as a High Court. It has been Uttar Pradesh are conducted partly by tbe mentioned in the Bill and also in the state­ Provincial Armed 'Constabulary by their ment of the ~finister. But, under artic.le very dangerous sentiments against the 226, one has got the right to arproach the ~fuslims or any other community. While High Court by special Jeave. You cannot I was Youth Congress(1) leader, I had been stop that; so, that object is defeated. If to the affected areas. I have seen that with the Government servant is convinced tbat my own eyes how tht'y behaved and func .. the composition of the Tribul'al is such that tioned. They provoke the people to go and he will not get justice, he will rush to the loot. This has happend in Bihar on many High Court u,lder article 226. Then the occasions. Tribunal can simply sleep and enjoy a good time. That is why I say that the compo:;i. Now, I take up Assam. Assam is a very tion of the TCJbunal will have to be such sensitive State. If an officer is appointed that it will carry conviction to the emplo­ there deliberately to insult or ignore the yees tbat here is a body to which you can go culture of Assam, their utterences and for real and speedy justice. speeches to the constables. to deputies. go to the market, go to the society. go to the Again, coming to tbe composjtion, if you Universities and the situation flares up. want to appoint judges for a State Tribunal, Many times it happens. I have seen this in kindly see to it that tbe judges are not from Assam especially. Since you are in charse tbat State. I am not casting any aspersion of the Administrative Reforms. I would 00 the judiciar}, but it is a fact of J!fe that urge apart from giving trainioSt first you today tbe social compulsions, the political, provide nat,onal integration training to the regional and caste compuhions make the Members of the bureauracy to learn what situation so horrible that it win not be fair India's culture is. A member who goes from to appoint a sitting or ret.red judge from a UP to Assam must know how respect the particular State in that State Tribunal. This to festivals of Assam. A member (rom is my other suggestion to the Minister. Assam, when be goes to UP, must know how to honour tbe Holy festival in tbat Now I speak in regard to the Police part of the land. These are the basic thin,s officers. I can cite four States-A;sam, which are lackina on tbe part of th~ admini­ Bihar, Punjab and West Bengal. Due to trative Officers and creating serious prob­ regional, S;)Cill. political, emotional and lems in the country and contributing to tbe cultural and. in Bihar, ca,te compul~ioD5, disintegration of tbe coun ry. This part or the appointment and transfers of the officers the training programme is not there. I do are made in such a naked manner by their not want to mention names. A man from senior bOI!eS that tbey aggravate the pro­ the Civil service was promoted as a Gover· blems of the State and tbe region I cite nor or West Senp). He was the Governor the example of Mongbyr in Bihar. 1 have o( West Denial. On the Birtbday o( Raja gone through a number of stories. If a Ram Mohan Roy. be told many people that dacoit belongs to a particular caste and the he did Dot know who Raja Ram Moban head of the Police belongs to tbat ca'te. tbat Roy was. And be was promoted as Gover- 8S AdminiJlral/'t Ttlbunab Bill MAGHA 9, 1906 (SAKtf) Admillistrative Tribunals B,1/ 86 nor! So, such kinds of people are therein Superintendent of Police, not party. Why the administrative arrangement. are they defending bim ?

Now, I come to West Bengal. I do not ( Interruptions) blame anybody. Members of the Opposi· tion should not feel about it. Rightly or SHRI AMAL DATTA: What actually wrongly West Bengal is a politically sensi­ happened, he has to explain. tive State and the political ~hadows do come to the officers, employees and the Police. SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS Why? Because in West Bengal, as you MUNSHI : I will explain that. know, Students Union movement has been permitted since the British days and I wel­ (Interruptfons) come it. Due to the activities of the stu· dent movement, its having been affiliated to I am not yielding. A or B bloc, when~ they corne out from the big colleges and get laurels, they have a big turn-out in the lAS or I PS examination. SHRI AMAL D-\TTA : Sir, I would like But, whatever may be their feeling, they to know if a m~mber can speak like that cannot just forget their past days. The without notice. This will demoralise the officials of the Government. What i.i your result is that it has a direct bearing or reflec· ruling? tion on the tota t administrative arr dnge­ ment. For instance, I cite one example.

IJuring the ejections to the Lok SabbJ t one (InterruptIons) Superintendent of Police-* in the presence of the State Election ComnlisslOfl observers SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS mercilessly started bealmg the members of MUNSHI : Seven days before the election the electorate, roughly telling thJt he had tbat Officer publicly said: "Hmdi speaking been instructed to do so and tha t he would people \\iIl vote for Indirajt'ts hand symbol. do so. Twenty thousand members of the I will not toJer..ite them in Howrah, "and he electorate in the queue were beateo and started beatmg tbem in the morning dis­ thrown out. persing them from the queue.

SHRI A ~IAL OAT r A (Diamond Har­ (Inter/uptio,'l) bour) : \Vhy w~re they beaten 1 Mr. Chairman, Sir, these are the Officers I f erer to who continue to disrupt the natio­ SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS MUNSHI : na\ ptogramme. ihese are the officets who Why are you ~hou\;ng 1 1 am not mention­ are polluting the administration. ing you. I am talking of the Superinten­ dent of Police. (In:erruptio,s)

(lr.terruption~ ) Why are you shouting? I am not attack­ SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS ing your party. MUNSHI Now, MI. Chairman, Sir, they are caught in the trap. I am not mention­ SHRI AMAL DATTA: I would like to ing their names. I did not mention any know Ythether it is perm,ned under tbe party. I mentioned the Superintendent of rules. Police. Now they are exposed. I am glad, Mr. Chairman, MR CHAIRMAN: Please address the Chair and speak Oll the Bill. (Inttrr"pt;olts) SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS Mr. Chairman, Sir, you have to protect MUNSHI : I am confioIDg myself to the me. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am talking of tbe BiU. (I"t~'r"pt'o"s)

**Not recorded. Q1 AtlmillU'rtII1,_ tribunals Bill JANUARY 29, 1~8; Admlraistratl,. Trlbunal,1}ld 88

Yo/Ira hadh'l badltt. 'ajan, Tatlra skalldh na bandht_. I am grateful to you. Because of my intervention they have come out in their true colours. I am glad they have establi­ SHRI AJOY BISWAS (Tripura West): shed their connivance with the Officer i.e. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I do not understand the S.P. of Howrah. why the Oovernment is in so much burry to bring this BiU in Parliament. I find so many lacunae in the Bill. This Bill actually I would again request the Minister tbat will cover about eighty to ninty laths of the before officially passing this Bill my sugges­ State and Central Government employees. tions should be taken into account. And So. I think before bringing this Bill in for West Bengal if any request comes for the Parliament, Government shoulj have dis­ tribunals, be should s!e t!lat the judges are cussions witb the All-India organisations of appointed from outside th~ State and not tbe Central and State Government emplo­ from within West B~Dgal and no depart­ yees. mental civil s:rvant should be atl~wed. Such offi::en or tbe police service should be Sir, I am connected with the State dealt with firmly as are trying to humiliate Government employees. I know the affairs the electorate and peole in the State by of the State Government employees and using their force. Thi., is what I say. I am the Employees' Federation. They wrote to grateful to Mr. AmaJ Datta ; at Jeast he has the Central Government severa) times for identified his connection with the police. discussion on the matters which are con­ nected with the State Government emplo­ SHRI AMAL DATfA : The whole yees, but actually the Central Governmnt allegation against the concerned officer is not paying heed to their demand. should be deleted because DO notice has been given. The main argument of tbe Government is that there are so many cases pending before SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DAS the Higb Courn and that is why this Admi­ MUNSHI : Thank you for defenJing him. nistrative Tribuna's Bill bas been brought forward. If this plea, is taken by the Govern­ ment in respect of other cases also, I do not SHRI AMAL DATTA: I am not defen­ know what the Government will do. Many ding him, I am defending the rules of the caJes in conoectioll with land disputes and House. You are violating tbe rules and other types of cases are also pendinl before you should be ashamed. Rules do not the Hiab Courts. I do not no whether the permit you to allow this. Please delete it Government will bring forward such type of from the proceedings. Dills for setting up Tribunals in respect of those cases also. There are many cases MR. CHAIRMAN: He ba3 not liven pending in the Hi.h Courts. But wbat is our DalDC of official. esperience about tbe Industrial Tribunal! ? There are already Industrial Tribunals set SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHURY: uo. We see that many cases are pending If this type of aUegations continue, where before the Industrial Tribunals also for will tbey speak 1 years together. So, the main reason is that there i! a sbortaae of Judles in the Hiab Courts and there is a sbortale of JudlOS in DR. KRUPASINDHU SHOI: I want tbe T,ibunals also. I am afraid the same to make a submission. tbing will happen in tbe case of Administra­ tive TribunaJs. What II required is tbe MR.. CHAIRMAN No submission at appointment of more Judi. to djlpoM of tbisltap. tbe cases early.

Dit. KllUPASINDHU SHOI Just a The Bill hal been prepared in conlOnance point or order, Sir. with Article 313A u a rcawt of wbicb tho 89 ,4dmJ"irtl'atlv~ 1'ribunal8 8111 MAGMA 9, 1906 (SAgt4) t4dmini.tralive t,lb'lnal, Bill 90 jurisdiction of the High Courts and the tha t on behaJf of the employee, another Supreme Court is taken away in respect of employee can appear before the proceedings the cases of retirement, promotion, leave, of the Centr.tl/State Governments Depart­ etc. All these types of cases have been inclu­ ment. If that is included here that on ded in the jurisdiction of the Administrative behalf of the employee, another employee of Tribunal. But I feel that the Government the Central or State Government can appear should have had a discussion with other before the Tribunal, that win be helpful for organisations concerned and should have tbe State and Central Government emplo­ brought forward a comprehensive BiU. yeos. Otherwise, some of the lacunae which are Ano(ber point is jf the employee will not there will not be removed. get any redress in the tribunal, then only he can go the Supreme Court. It is a serious Another point that has been made by my thing. Class III and Class I V employees can­ bon. friend Mr. Priya Ranjan Das Mun~hi, not go the Supreme Court. You know what wbich is pertinent to tbis Bill is who win be the Chairman of this Admillistrative Tribu­ is the cost involved in the Supreme Court. nal. Tbe Bill provides that a retired Judge If a Class IV employee will not get redressal will be the Chairman or "retired Secretary in the Tribunal, then his only alternative is or Additional Secretary to the Government to go to the Supreme Court. Is it possible will be the Chairman of the Tribunal. If a for him to go to tbe Supreme Court for let­ Secretary or an Additional Secretary will be ting justice from tbe Supreme Court? I the Chairman of this Tribunal, then there is tbank that tbis Tribunal Bin, particularly this an apprehension that the employees may not provision, is not helpful for the employees of get justice because he will not be having the Central and State Governments. judicial thinking. The judgment of the Tri­ bunal may be of an administrative nature. My last point is that I shall request this When an Officer of the rank of Secretary or Government to withdraw the Bill and dis­ Additional Secretary takes action against an cuss with all the organisations of the Central employee and, after retirement, he is made and State Governments' employees and the Chairman of the Tribunal, at that time, bring a comprehensive Bill. That will be definitely, he will not be in a free state of helpful for the Central and State Govern­ mind. At that time, his every judgment, his ment employees. Otherwise, the purpose of every notion, his every thinking will be gui· this Bill will be defeated. ded by the administrative way of thinking. So. tbis kind of provision should be chan­ [Translation] led. Otherwise, the very purpose of the SHRI LALIT MAKEN (South Delhi): Administrative Tribunals BiU will be defea­ Mr. Chairman, Sir, I welcome tbe Adminis­ ted and it will Dot serve any purpose at trative Tribunals Bill moved in thi' House. all. As has been stated here, tbere are about 61,000 cases relating to the employees either Another point that I would like to make of the State Governments or the Central II tbat there is a provision that an employee Government ~nding in different courtS of may appear in person or take the assistance India awaiting decision and the Administra­ 01 a legal person of his choice to present the tive Tribuna Is have been set up to dispose of case before the Tribunal. If an employee is such staggering number of eases speedily. I dot conversant with tbe rules and regula­ think it is a good move in this direction. It tions of tbe Tribunal and if be is not able to wi)) provide justice to those thousands of pay the fees of a leaal person, in that case employees of tbe State Governments and the "bat will be the provision in the Bill ? That Central Government who are waiting for Is not clear in the Bill. In that case, wbether justice and whose cases are pending in be will not be able to appear before the \-arious courts I feel, with the constitution Tribunal or Dot has to be made clear. of these tribunals tbey will aet quick justice and tbeir. dabts will be protected. In this CODDectio~" J want to point out one tbinl tbat there is a system still in Cen­ As has beeD mentioned here, Administra­ tral Government and State Government ti ve Tribunals would be constituted to 91 Adm'nbt,ative Tribunal, Bill JANOAllY 29. 1985 .4dmlnistrattve 'tribunals Bill 9~

improve tbe recruitment and ~ervice as wen I would like to state here that these as working conditions of government emplo­ bureaucrat Secretaries and Joint Secretaries yees. The more welcome feature is that in tbe State/Central Government offices have their decision will be binding on both the the same biased attitude towards the emplo­ parties, the Government as well as the emp­ yees as the big industrialists and factory loyees. I think th(l object of tho DiU is owners have towards their workers. There­ laudable but there are certain lacunae in the fore, this is the que~tion of different systems. Bill and I would like to draw the attention different sections of the society. They are of \be House to them. two different categories of people. So bureaucracy is responsible for injustice and One of my friends from the Opposition inflicting atrocities. If the future of the victi­ has stated bere that after decision of the mised employees is to be decided by the Tribuna), the employees will be able to same persons who have committed injustice, move only the Supreme Court and this will thrn I can say that they will never be able to harm their interest. But I do not agree with get justice. this argument. On tbe contrary, I think it win be beneficial for them because generally Clause 6 provides for appointment of we see that if an employee wins a case in the Secretaries and Joint Secretaries as Cbair­ Jower court, the Government takes it to tbe men. But I think that tbese are judicial High Court and if be wins it in the High organisations and bureaucrats shOUld not be Court, tbe Government takes it to the associated with them in any manner. If you Supreme COUtt. I think after the passage of want to provide justice to Government emp­ tbis Bill one stage will be eliminated and loyees, I would request you tbat in no Government employees will be saved from case should the Secretaries and Joint Secre­ moving the High Court where the cases used taries be appointed as Chairmen of these to be kept pending for years involving a Jot Tribunals. of expenditure and time of the employees. Now they can directly seek justice in tbe I have found the biggest lacuna in clause 3 Supreme Court. in which it i~ mentioned that any victimised employee can approach tbe Tribunal to safe­ guard his rights. In the case of Labour We already bave Labour Tribunals in the Tribunals, tbe representative unions fight the country just like tbe proposed Administra­ case, put forward the charter of demands to tive Tribunals. If you Jook at tbem you win the management and if no agreement is find that thousands of cases have been pend­ reached with the management, tbe case is ing for years together. I want that the referred to the Labour Tribunal and a deci. condition of these Administrative Tribunals sion j~ taken. But no such provision bas should not be as bad as prevailing in the been included in tbis Bill. Labour Tribunals. I would like to request that these Tribunals should be made time­ bound. Some time should be prescribed for There is no such provision In this Bin different types of cases to achieve the aim of under which associations of State or Central providing speedy justice. Government employees can put forth tbeir charter of demands, disputes, "hich could not be decided in J.e.M., departmental aause 6 of this BiU says that Secretaries Council, States, before tbe tribunal. There­ and Joint Secretaries can also become Chair­ fore, I would urge upon the bon. Minister men of the Tribunals. I stroDS)Y oppose it. that a suitable provision for the same should As my friend has also said, jf any reti­ be made in this Bill. If no reference is made red Secretary or Joint Secretary, who had about the Associations in this Bill it wouJd victimised any employee while in tbe office, amount to great disrespect to the Trade is appointed as Chairman of the Tribunal Unions. As in the case of industrial disputes and if the same victimised empJoyee goes to Employees Associations have been allowed the Tribunal seekins justice, he will be victi­ to take their cases to Industrial Tribunals mised again. This is a simple matter. I and Labour Tribuna)s, similarly, Govern.. even go further to say that attitude of bure­ ment employees aSSOCiations, wbetber they aucracy all over India is anti-employees. ale Central Government employees associa. 93 Admin/strallv, Tribunals Bill MAGHA 9, 1906 (S...tKA) Admlnlll,ative Tribunals Bill 94

tions or State Government employees' asso. Secretaries and Government employees. I ciations, should be given right to put forth am not aware whether at the time of draft­ their views before the Tribunal ing this Bill, this department was under the hone Minister or not and whether he had Section 2 refers to those employees who made any contribution in drafting this Bill. are not covered under this Bill. It says that If he had applied his mind to tbe Bill, he besides naval, military and airforce person­ would have definitely grasped the objecti\)ns ne), Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha employees raised by our friends here. When judicial are also not covered under this Bill. There is process is involved in it, ooly judges should another category of employees in India be a ppomted to this TnbunaJ. All the which is not taken into account at all as Government employees, whether they are they are neither covered under public service Government Officers, Secretaries, Joint commissions nor treated al!; defence emplo­ Secretaries or Additional Secretaries, in the yees. These are the employees of Border first instance, go in for appeal. There is a Roads Organisation whose number is in procedure for that also. When their appeal lakhs in India &t present. They construct is not accepted, they go to courts. If these roads at the height of 20 to 25 thousand very Government Officers who might have feet. They work day and night in winter at already heard the appea1s are appointed to places where temperature is 10 degree and the Tribunal and If they have to hear the construct roads for our soldiers. I am sorry case already heard by them, the aggrieved that DO mention has been made about them part, may not get the justice. They might anywhere in this Bill. They demand an the not be involved in that case personally but facilities. there might be some of their friends, there might be a person about whom they think During the Janata regime, the then that be cannot give wrong decision, hence Defence Minister had stated that the Border justice cannot be done. Therefore, I request Roads Organisation employees can form their the bon. Minister to reconsider this point. associations. After this statement of the Defence Minister, they formed their associa­ Secondly, I would like to point out parti­ tions and thereafter during the Janata cularly that [he army, navy and airforce regime they were sent to jails and their ser­ personnel have not been brought under the vices were terminated. Therefore, I request jurisdiction of this Bill. This is a very bi" thzt t he concerned officers should be asked disciplined force. There is no doubt that in to include them In the category of mihtary this force there is discrimination in promo­ personnel so that they can also avail of all tion, pay fixation and in many otber those facilities. WIth these words, I con­ matters. Hon. Minister has been our Defence clude. Minister also. He is aware that armed forces personnel have taken many cases to SHRI ZAINUL BASHER (Ghazipur): the High Court and Supreme Court. r-Ar. Chairman, Sir, I welcome this Bill in maf'Y respects. It is a fact that today a Several cases of armed forces personnel large number of cases of Government emp­ are also pendi ng in courts. Therefore, I lo),ees are pending right from lower courts would suggest that he should think about to Supreme Court. These cases have been setting up a separate Tribunal for these pending there for years. Some cases have be· personnel in the armed forces itself, so that en pending for as many as 20 to 2S years and these people who have to run to courts time have not yet been decided. The fate of the and again in connection with their promo­ Governmen t employees is hanging in balance. tion cases and other cases and have to face Hon. Minister has stated that after the sett.. great hardship, may get speedy justice. ing up of this tribunal the position will not remain lIke this. This Bin provides for So far as the employees of Parliament and jud iciat proceedings but as has been said by courts are concerned, I understand the posi­ my friends earlier that purpose would not be tion because there the Speaker is the final served If Government Officers, particularly authority for hearin~ and redressal of like Secretary, Additional Secretary are appo­ grievances and I think the Speaker, whether i nted to this tribunal. This Bill is drafted by be is of parli~ment or a Le.islature, always 9S Administ,ative Tribunals Bill JANUARY 29, 198' Administrative Trtbunals Bill 9') does justice. Therefore, keep them out of common people. tbe jurisdiction of this tribunal but if you do not want to indu Je the.armed forces person­ Though tbis Bill is btlated, yet I welcome nel in it, you should set up a separate tribu­ it because it h for the good of Government nal for them. employees. Th~ Tri'lun:lIs are going to be set up botb at th~ Centre anj in the States. In this context I would like to add one 9 The Government employees are not able to thing. This tribunal is being set up for get redre~sal of their genuine grievances Government emplo} ees and Officers but expeditiously. They are running from pinar Government officers find employe~s do to post. They are to manage the court injustice to the people, do not behave pro­ cases and their families within their limited perly with them or when there are' comp­ means. They are suffering mlnifold misery laints of corruption and violation of rules on account of inordinate delay in the settle­ against them. 1 would like to know whether ment of their disputes. The Courts cannot he has under consideration a proposal to set be blamed because they are burdt:ned .. ith up a tribunal to go into all such complaints thousands of cases. Only the other day in against them? It has been seen that if any reply to a Starred Question raised by late person levels a charge of corruption against Shri K.T. Kosalram, whose death we any Governm"!nt em;JL)yee or offi:er, and mourned today morning, tbe Government 61;5 apj)tication again~t him, the, same a ppli­ have indicated the total number of cases cation goes to the S3me offi-:er for examina­ pending before the Courts of Jaw. It will tion against whom complaint has been take several years for the Courts to dispose made. We are Members of Parliament. I of all these cases. On behalf of Shri K.T. myself have experience and many of us Kosalram and on my own behalf I must might also be having the same experience thank the hone Minister for having brought that when we make complaint against any rorward this legislation, which will be bene­ officer. the complaint goes to the same ofii­ ficial both to the common people and to the eer for examination. I would, therefore, like Government servants. to know whether the han. Minister is going to..set up an!, Tribunal for this purpose also? Home Minister is a very efficient p::rson and The common people will have a sigh of as Derence Minister be has discharged his relief because they are also to wait for deca­ duW very efficiently. Therefore, I wouht also des to get judgments on their cases. It so like to know whether he proposes to set up happens that t heir witnesses even disappear a tribunal which should go into the publ:c in between. They have to arrange for new complaints against Government officers and witnesses. The intermediaries eat away aJl employees and take action thereon? He their money. With the taking away of cases should make efforts to set up sucb a tribu­ relating to Government employees from the nal. I hope that he will consider it. purview of Courts, the Courts will be able to deliver speedier justice. Hereafter, therl! *SHR I R. ANNA NAMBI (PolJachi) : I will be no room for saying that justice dela­ am thankful to you, Mr. Chairman, for giv­ yed is justice denied. ing me an opportunity to say a few words on behalf of my party the All India Anna Now I would like to point out that for Dravida Munn~tra Kazhagam on the each and every thing we need rot appoint .Administrative Tribunals Bill, 1985. Judges as the Chairman. It is not that Judges alone are omniscient. I suggest that Sir, this Bill should have been brought a Secretary who has served the Home long ago. It would have .educed the burden Deparhnent either at the Centre or in the on the Courts of Law. It would have ensu­ State for five years and more should be red expeditious decisions on issues relating appointed as Chairman of tbe Tribunal. The to the Government employees. Conse­ Vice-Chairman should be a public man of quently, tbe Courts would have been enab- eminence eVOking tbe confidence of the led lay greater emphasis to on cases of Government employees. Similarly t a repre-

*TraDtlatloD of tbe Speecb Ori,inalJ), delivered in Tamil. 97 Administraliv(! Trlbu"als Bill MAGHA 9, 1906 (SAKIt) Administrative T,ib!lnals Bill 98 sentative of the Government employees duly the proposed Tribunal will deal exclusiveJy elected hy them should be made a Member with service matters of Government emplo­ of tbe Tnbunal. I suggest that it is very yees. Therefore, the examples and the com­ necessary to have common tenure for the ments made by 'he bon. Members regarding Chairman and for the Members. It should including various people as well as associa­ be uniformly five years for the Chairman tions and the Armed Forces are not relevant and Members of the Tribunal. and wou1d be outside tbe jurisdiction of this. For the armed forces, there are the I extend my wholehearted support to the Army Act, the Navy Act and the Air Forco laudable effort of our h:>n Minister. He has Act, and tt,ere are uther provisions also. proved by bringing forward this Bill that the However, all the points mentioned by tbo interests of O"vernrneat employees are hon Members have been taken note of. or uppermost in his mind and he is committed course, a debate is ah~ going on regarding to the redressal of their grievances setting up a Tribunal for the Armed Forces. Hut it is for them to decide, not for this With these words I cOolctude my speech. Ministry. This Bfll, as I said, does not have jurisdiction over the Armed Forces. Even [Engl18h] the Border Roads Orglnisation does not THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE come within the purview of this. That is a DEPARTMENTS OF PERSONNFL AND different set up. They are governed by the ADMJNJS1RAT1VE REfORMS AND different Acts, and are under the Ministries CULTURE (SHRI K P. SINGH DEO): of Defence and Shipping and Transport. Let Mr Chairman, Sir, at the outset, I would us not complicate matters; that is not reJe. like to thank the hone Members for their vant to this. vtry good supge~tjons and their apprehen­ sions \\ hich give me ~n crportur,ity to reply Regarding composition of the Tribunal. to ~cme of the questions that have been many hone Members9 particularly Shn Prtya raised by them. At the S81T"e time-, I am Ranjan Das Munsbi, have raised a lot of extremely ,ratefu) to the hone Members for appr~hensions. ] would like to assure them supporting this piece of legislation. First it is only because of objectivity and justice and foremost, I would like to mention that that the composition of the Tribuna) has this Administrative Tribunal has be~n been kept in the manDer it has been incorpo­ brought for\\ard after it had ~een celit-era· rated in tbe Bil • It is anenabliDg provision to ted upon at t\ery step. The Staff Associa­ have Secretaries, serving or retired Judges to tion has been consulted during the initial act as Chairman, or as proposed. It is to stages, the State Governments have been make them eligible. The President will be consulted, the Legal Department has been the sole appointing authority in respect of consulted and then the Cabinet has brought the Central Tribunal and be will take into forward thi§ pi~c~ \)f legislation. consideration all aspects which have been raised by t 1 ,e hone Members. As far as the The Bill had b.!.!n Pl~sed in the Rajya State Tribunals are concerned, be will do so Slbha, but b~cause the life of the 7th Lok in consultation with the Government concer­ Sabh:t had ended. t he Bill bas been brcught ned, and the Governor win take into consi. afresh here now. deration an the relevant aspects, for example from the justice point of view, a, Many bon. Members have raised certain also the various apprehensions raised by the apprehensions regarding the composition hon. Member~. and jurisdiction of the Tribunal. They have also suggested that tbe Tribunal shoud also The Tribun~"s are not going to be oarallel include certain categories of persons. High Courts, but they win be doing tbe work of the High Courts as far as the prob­ I would like to mention that tbe Adminis­ lems and cases pertaining to tbe service con­ trative Tribunal is different from a High ditions of the employees are concerned. Court in one essential respect and tbat is, Therefore, to bring in objectivity t even the while the HiSh Courts deal with cases relat­ Supreme Court had opined that senior civil in, to all kinds of Jaws atlectin, the public, servants, who bave tX~rieDce and who 99 Admini-tratlv~ Tribunals Bill JANUARY 29, 1985 AdminiJtfal;ve Tllbunals Bill 100 k,l~ N th~ V.lrj')lB htri;ic;~) of th' s~rvic., are common. So, I seek the indulgence of c lnditions should be included in these Tribu­ the House and commend tbat this Bill be n:dst and according to Articl~ :l!3 of the passed. Constitution, whi~h is the enabling clause that has given rise to this legislation. MR. CHAIRMAN a The question is :

hThat the to provide for the adju­ Regarding inter nal rivalry and victimi­ Bill salion of certain Officers, I would say that Jication or trial by Administrative these are very unkind remarks and we can­ Tribunals of disputes and complaints not generalise all Officers of the administra­ with respect to recruitment and condi­ tive services to fall into this category. There tions of service of persons appointed are blacksheep everywhere, but due care will to public services and posts in connec­ be taken to see that this does not occur. tion with the affairs of the Union or of any State or of any local or other authority WIthin the territory of India One hon. Member said about the shortage or under the control of the Govern­ of judge~, and bec.\use of that a lot of cases ment of India or of any corporation are pending. That is eXlctly the reason, owned or controlled by tbe Govern­ why we are bringing this legi~lation to have ment and for matters connected there­ speedil!r jllstice, and to relieve the Higb with or incidental thereto, be taken Couru of tne3e sorts of cases, wb ich are into consideration." taking their tirn~. S )me hon. Ml!mbers said correctly that jUitic~ dellyed is justice denied. The motion Mal adopted.

This is exactly what we seek to redress by MR. CHAIRMAN ; Tbe House will now having speedy justice. take up cJause.by-c]ause consideration of the Bill. The question is : Regarding Associations, which has been mentioned by hon. member Mr. Lalit "That clauses 2 to 37 stand pan of Makan, it is for indivi1uals or for a par~y to the Bill." think. This is not for associations. For associations, courts are there. Administra· The mOlion was oaopttd. tive Tribunals are for service matters, service conditions of individuals. those in Clauses 2 to 37 w~,e added 10 the Bi/l. service. Th i~ point is outside the purview.

Clause 1 *a.s added 10 the Bill. Sir, most of these are common points. There was one po;nt raised by Shri Priya Racjan Oas Munsbi as to why there is a Enacting Fo rmula discrimination, tbe age limit be ing 62 for members and 65 for Chairman. This is to Amendment made : enable the member after one te~ure to be a chairman or a vice·chairmar .... Page 1, line 1,

lor "Thirty·fifth" $Ubslltute 'tThirty­ (lntt"uptlons) sixth" (1) I did not disturb you when you were speaking and I hope I get the same (Shri K.P. Singh Deo) courtesy. MR.. CHAIRMAN : The question is : This is exactly tbe pattern followed in the UPSC. "That the Enacting Formula, as amended, stand part of the Bill." I think I have answered to most of the points tbat have been raised. Some of them The motion "a. adopt~d. 101 AdmlnlllrativI Tribunal, Bill MAGHA 9, 1906 (SAKA) t4timini,trative T,ibunal8 Bill 102

The Enactl"g Formula, as amended, MR. CHAIRMAN: May I remind the was added to the B"I. hon. Members that tomorrow the House will be meeting at 10.58 hours? Now, we The Tille ",aj added 10 the Bill. win adjourn. SHRI K.P. SINGH DEO I I beg to 15.58 hrs. move: "That the Bill, as amended, be The Lok Sabha then adjourned till F,fty­ passed," eight minute, past ten 0/ tlte Clock on January 30, 1985/Magha 10, MR. CHAIRMAN: The question is : 1906 (Saka). "That the SHI, as amended, b" passed."

TM motion was adopted

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