José María Aznar Interviews

Interview to José María Aznar in XL Semanal [03.11.13] “If I wanted to challenge someone, I would do it. If I wanted to come back, I would be back”

XL Semanal | Madrid, 03/11/2013

El compromiso del poder (Editorial Planeta) it is the second and last volume of the juicy political memoirs of José María Aznar, which comes out November 7. We took an appointment at his office in FAES to discuss about this book focused on the eight years he presided the Popular Government (1996‐2004). But today we also talk about current politics: of ‘Bárcenas case’, of his concern about the independent draft in Catalonia, about his relations with Mariano Rajoy or about Ana Botella’s speech pronounced in English to defend the Olympic Candidature for Madrid.

This time he comes by himself, he has left Sam at home, the Labrador with which he posed a few years ago for our magazine. But, as an exchange, he has brought us halve a dozen of his so enigmatic, forbidden and powerful famous blue notebooks.

XL Semanal: It should be required to all Heads of Government that after a prudential time to publish their memoirs with much detail as possible.

José María Aznar: It is assumed that there might be interesting things to say. In many countries there is a tradition on doing so. Almost all American presidents do it on the first year, others take longer and others do not.

XL: Have you bitten quite the tongue? I am asking this because I see little internal criticism and no political gossip.

J.M.A.: It is because I am not nosy. I like that that the Story is known as it is and the story goes beyond gossip. Truth is I am not interested at all in gossip.

XL: I am thinking on the recent memoirs of José Bono, Alfonso Guerra…both full of surprises. Is the left more uninhibited, more outspoken?

J.M.A.: Usually yes, but above all, the left t has less historical sense.

XL: The last chapter of the book talks about the famous blue notebooks, that not only they really exist but there are a lot of them and of different sizes.

J.M.A.: Of course they exist! Look at them! [He shows me some of them, all full of post its]. I keep them in a safe. There are two different sizes: the small ones I used them as diaries, and the big ones [folio size] in which I have been writing comments and notes. They are sort of like a personal development of my agenda.

XL: Have you been offered a fortune for its publishing?

Interview in XL Semanal José María Aznar Interviews

J.M.A. : Yes [he smiles as he picks them up to put them away], but they are never getting published.

XL: In this second part of your biography it is missed a reference to your daughter’s wedding, Ana, at the monastery of El Escorial, an event that caused a deluge of articles.

J.M.A.: The book is about a time in the history of the Spanish life, and the wedding of my daughter I see it from a purely personal and particular point of view. I was a parent whose daughter was married in the same place where many other people’s children get married, although I admit that my situation was a bit special because she was the daughter of the President, but that was a condition that neither she, nor I, nor anyone else could avoid…

XL: Yes, it was all very special, guests also...

J.M.A.: They were my friends. Well, some were my friends and others were friends of others.

XL: If at that time the criticism focused on the characteristics of the celebration, years later they concentrated on the wedding guests who were charged in the Gürtel case.

J.M.A.: [Resounding]. Those where exactly the ones I did not knew.

XL: Also missing in the 350 pages of the book a citation to Esperanza Aguirre and Alberto Ruiz‐Gallardón, even though you thank dozens of contributors.

J.M.A.: The book deals with some stages of the Government and it cannot deal with everything because it would be endless. Furthermore, in the first volume of my memoirs, when the history of the party is being told, it’s spoken of Alberto Ruiz‐Gallardón and when some things have to do with Culture Esperanza Aguirre is mentioned...

XL: A trick question: the absence of any reference to whom was Minister Esperanza Aguirre, President of the Senate and president of Community under your government, does not have anything to do with the increasingly strained relations maintained for some time with the mayor of Madrid, Ana Botella?

J.M.A.: No, no; the Aguirre family and the Aznar family have been friends for many years and that relationship continues, the rest is part of the gossip.

XL: Ten years ago you wondered how the PSOE could defend self‐determination in Catalonia, Andalusia federalism and autonomy model in Castile‐La Mancha, Castile and Leon...

J.M.A.: That after ten years we continue asking the same denotes the deep crisis which is engulfing an important part of the left. That left in Spain is lacking of political architecture because it’s lacking of intellectual architecture, that is why it continues with the same problems and the same historical vices as always.

Interview in XL Semanal José María Aznar Interviews

XL: You remark in your memoirs four trusted men who you appreciate for their extraordinary work: Javier Arenas, Rodrigo Rato, Francisco Alvarez‐Cascos and Mariano Rajoy. How do you see the current situation of the first three?

J.M.A.: The four of them, along with Jaime Mayor, have been essential key parts in the transformation of the Popular Party. I can only have gratitude and appreciation for them because they did an excellent job, both in the Party and in government. They are first‐rate politicians.

XL: I insist: How do you see Cascos out of the PP; Rato while after its way through Bankia and Arenas again in Madrid ... with what it might happen?

J.M.A.: Everyone answers for his life and his actions, of what he does and what does not. I wish them all the best, but if you ask me for the actions they took at that time, I only have words of gratitude.

XL: Be honest. How is your relationship with Mariano Rajoy?

J.M.A.: I try to disturb Mariano Rajoy as little as possible. I never called the presidents, unless it is an exceptional thing, and to ministers I also try to disturb them as little as possible. I hate to bother.

XL: But you bother, and a lot, without having to call them on the phone ... You just have to see the political turmoil that you create every time you speak.

J.M.A.: If I have something to say, I say it and Mariano Rajoy, who is the current President, knows very well what I think.

XL: Surely there is more than one who does not feel comfortable with hearing you say with a certain frequency that you would have done things differently.

J.M.A.: I am not in combative politics. I give some ideas to try to solve the problems which the country is facing .Right now , there is a proposal for secession of great magnitude against Spain, involving a breakdown of the constitutional pact, a breakdown of cohabitation between Spanish inhabitants and that it is the biggest challenge we've had in a very long time. That needs to be explained and we have to know how to deal with it, because it should and must, and, moreover, can, and also it should and must be won. Spain is not going to break, but some people will lead Catalonia to disaster, and that must also be avoided.

XL: What do you think is not being done well from the Government in regard to Catalonia?

J.M.A.: This is a very serious national situation and what I am saying is that it’s the Governments duty to lead it. It is not enough that the Government is an ally of anyone who is faced with the secessionist position.

XL: What about the economic crisis?

Interview in XL Semanal José María Aznar Interviews

J.M.A.: Whenever I am asked about it, I always say that I am not in favor of that raise taxes because Spain needs a recovery of its operations, and raise taxes restrings it and it is not levied what is expected. And besides, in my judgment, the burden increasingly affects the middle class, which does not facilitate or speeds recovery. When I was in power, taxes were lowered several times.

XL: When you were in power, the crisis had other characteristics we were not yet in the euro, at the discretion of Germany for the huge debt.

J.M.A.: Let's see. If you had asked me what had to be the general response to the crisis that erupted from the years 2008 and 2009, I would have given a different answer. The crisis will not be solved with more regulation and more taxes ... No, instead, what is most needed is more liberalization, more opening, less taxes ... That was the answer and that is still the answer.

XL: You look very disappointed with the Government's action and very critical with the famous 'days' of Rajoy.

J.M.A.: Well, the Spanish people are the ones who will judge him. I feel one more Spanish person who would like to see some things faced with determination.

XL: Each time you make such statements, from some media floats the idea of your possible return to politics, something you have never categorically ruled out.

J.M.A.: What you need to do is look at what is being said. I just spoke in San Sebastian and the key is whether people disagree or disagree with what I said: Is there a secessionist challenge? Does the law have to be enforced? Is the one who is not following the law is out of it? Is the law is equal for all and forces with all its consequences? Do we have an obligation to defend our Democracy, our State and our Nation?

XL: Did you miss some Basque PP leader to accompany you in San Sebastian? There were sound absences...

J.M.A.: No! It has been long since I missed anyone. I do not ask anyone to go to places or step list to see who will or will not. Everyone knows what to do.

XL: But again, do you have the temptation to go back into politics?

J.M.A.: I have no political temptation at this time. I'm just a citizen concerned about the country's problems. And I am convinced that they can be overcome, but also that this requires politics. Today I read that politics is the art of negotiating. Yes, exactly, politics is the art of negotiation, except one thing: the nonnegotiable. You can negotiate budgets, what cannot be negotiated is the existence of the country, because that is not negotiable. The rule of democracy and respect for the rule of law is something that some are forgetting too easily. After all I do not care what a secessionist may say, I worry that the vast majority of Spanish society is put in place that has an active policy that expresses and

Interview in XL Semanal José María Aznar Interviews

represents it, and that is important enough and attractive to merit the trust of all. That's what matters to me.

XL: Concern is evident, but you have not clearly answered my question, what does it mean "I have no political temptation at this time"? Does it contemplate whether or not the possibility of returning at some point in the political arena?

J.M.A.: [Resounding] Look, if I wanted to challenge someone, I would do it. If I wanted to come back, I would be back. And if I meet my responsibility saying what I think I should say, is because I have to insist that there are things we have to solve.

XL: Phew! Let’s go back to your memoirs. [He smiles]. They describe very closely your relationship with the King. However, it has been said that all Government presidents we've had, with you is who had less relationship with.

J.M.A.: With King I always had the institutional relationship that it should be. As for the personal, it was always correct and caring, which is what the king always promotes. I have to say that the historical performance of the King, the King's legacy and what it has meant for Spain has been and is very important for the Spanish democracy, and is fair to highlight it. I, of course, enhance it because the country also needs it and they should know it. The monarchy in Spain continues to have many advantages over the Republic.

XL: You say that the Pope John Paul II is the only person that you have admired, respected and devoted. What do you think, though short, the orientation of the new Pope?

J.M.A.: Pope Francisco is connecting really well with non‐traditional sectors of the Church and, probably, the Church needs reforms undoubtedly important, that this Pope is undertaking with a different style. It is true that non‐believers are very happy with Francisco and it's true that some believers are a bit puzzled by it. But he just started and it's all a matter of time and I think it will continue to show some great qualities to reform the Church and to keep coming and adding, quietly and slowly, new sectors to the Catholic Church.

XL: Let me switch gears and ask you about Bárcenas case. Where do you think 40 or 50 million euros come from, apparently all of them treasured outside Spain?

J.M.A.: Firstly, that is something that is in the Courts right now. Secondly, I do not know if this is true or not. And third, if so, they can only know those who know him ... and I have no idea about it...

XL: Did you know that, while you were ahead of the PP, they waived envelopes and accessories?

J.M.A.: The fact that a person has two wages because he performs two compatible activities does not mean you have bonuses. The problem is whether

Interview in XL Semanal José María Aznar Interviews

declared or not declared. What been doing here to call 'bonus' to a second salary, and a salary is a salary. I, in my life, have never received a bonus. Ever!

XL: The party financing is another unresolved issue. Without a realistic regulation, B accounting should be the order of the day.

J.M.A.: One of the problems of the world today, in general, and in Spain in particular is overregulation. We believe that the more we regulate things, the better they will be ... and that is not so. What is needed is that the systems are transparent and effective, and can operate and provide assurance and tranquility. In this sense I am convinced that the Popular Party will have acted properly.

XL: How is your relationship with the press right now?

J.M.A.: I have very little contact with journalists, only casual encounters, not systematic. What I would really like is to have a much stronger private life and that the circumstances did not require me to talk.

XL: Ana Botella is going through a difficult stage ahead of the City of Madrid. Have you ever told her to leave, that there is no need to continue in politics in such a difficult time?

J.M.A.: Ana is a woman of extraordinary strength and looks after a lot of things. Prior to the decision of the Olympic Games, talking to Ana, I told her something that she was well aware of "Look, Anna, if Madrid wins the nomination, will win in spite of you, and if you lose, you go take the blame. Are you in that? ". And she replied: "Yes, yes, of course I'm on it." Well, that's it. Probably to her that she has a large fortress, a huge work capacity and that is quite an important political talent is forgiven a lot less than others for whom they are and for being married to whose she is. But that does not diminish her strength.

XL: How did you saw the «relaxing cup of café con leche in Plaza Mayor» speech?

J.M.A.: As everyone knows, Spain is an English‐speaking country where everyone speaks English; especially the most critical are the best speakers. Some do it with an Oxford accent o and others speak Cambridge accent, and some directly Eton accent. And this is very impressive. And also very impressive to realize that, when an English speaker, has gone to a school where he was taught English since childhood, and presents in English and that may have a more or less pronounced accent .. . is criticized for that. This is one of the things that I take with a sense of humor, that's how to take it.

XL: The end of the book is hopeful: "Spain is not going to break, will come out of the crisis." But maybe you might have missed a dose of self‐ criticism.

Interview in XL Semanal José María Aznar Interviews

J.M.A.: Not all processes are perfect and there are no perfect countries, but we are trying to make a better country and, as good liberals, we give up on having the ability to solve all problems. The main thing for a serious leader is to be able to say, "Hey, I left the country better than it is! ». And I think I can say so.

MY BLUE NOTEBOOKS During the interview, Aznar agreed to take out of the safe some of his blue notebooks to photograph. "I have dozens and dozens of them. All are blue, with the coil on one side, the classic ones. The smallest are daily and the biggest I have been collecting comments and personal notes of meetings, events ...”

AZNAR OPENS HIS OFFICE FOR US "It's assembled three values: effort, meditation and Castilian spirit” ‐With Clinton: Clinton, in the Moncloa, with Aznar and one of his sons, during the preparation of 49th NATO summit, the first to be held in Spain in 1997. ‐With Blair: "I like to have memories of the past and present history: an oak leaf from Guernica, photos of Perejil ... or this with Blair (and Zico, my first dog), invited to spend a few days with us in Doñana in 1997 ". ‐The monks: the gathering "These ceramic monks are one of the values that I keep in my office: the gathering". ‐The office: "Almost all books in my office are of History and Art, two of my passions. I have also Canogar artwork, Tàpies, Úrculo ... Most personal gifts. All art pieces on FAES are mine, because they do not fit in my house” ‐The Dovecote: Great ideas "This ceramic pigeon has no value, but reflects another of the important values in life. The pigeon symbolizes the Castilian spirit, the heavens opened: the big ideas. " ‐The bull: strength and ambition “It is from the sculptor Juan Ripoll and has been following me wherever I go since they gave it to me”. It symbolizes a very Spanish feeling, but also strength and ambition. The strength of the bull is spectacular. Have I got strength and ambition? Yes, huge. " ‐The Roman plow: the effort "The plow is hard work, effort. It's a concept that I give a lot of value. And always the monks, the plow and the pigeon travel with me to every office to which I move. "

Interview in XL Semanal